Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. Welcome to the north of town council meeting February 3rd 2026. It is about 6:40 right now. We're in the hobby hearing room. I will call the meeting to order and ask for please. Councilor Costan here. Council Terry here. Council Mal here. Councelor here. Council Dimes present. Council Weird here. Vice President Sputter

here. All please rise for the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The minutes from the January 20th, 2026 meeting have been circulated. Have a motion to approve. Motion by Vice President Swope, second by Councelor Dimes. Any discussion on the motion? I have a second. Yes. So when it came to the um this time I noticed for councelor Marain for the um Wendy Mar committee it's actually listed twice it has it as unanimous then underneath it redo does the vote with it abstain is it it's kind of confusing that way is it supposed to be because we'll make that change no problem we'll make the change and we'll vote on approval as amended as amended thank you

any other discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. [clears throat] No. The eyes have it. Thank you. General information and recommendation. We do not have public comment. We do not have public comment. I think we do have uh public comment open. Seeing none. Nice project.

Hi, Lee. Holy precinct um six. I'm just going to read a letter from Lisa Vanessia from precinct 2. Um, members of the town council, sorry, precinct one. Um, members of the town council, I am asking that you deny the motion submitted by councelor soap to engage in unnecessary cost unnecessary costly lawsuits to fight a losing battle. It's time we comply with 3A and move forward with the planning board original plan to correctly reszone seal harbor and governor's park. It's not fair to ask residents to incur costly legal fees to fight a losing battle in addition to the increase we've already incurred for firearms and schools, not to mention the continued loss of grant money. If you decide to move forward with this lawsuit, let the liftup says no to 3A committee pay for it. You've already been paying for it enough for the chaos and community division that they themselves [clears throat] have they themselves have created. Um, and my own comments on this is um I mean you probably know my opinion. and I have a hard no to engaging in any lawsuit given our precarious financial state and many other reasons. I also believe that vice pres the vice president should recuse herself from any voting or motion on 3A. Firstly, if 3A is going to negatively impact Seal Harbor as she and her daughter claim, then this is an obvious conflict of interest. And the second conflict of interest is even more percidious, using her position to promote her own daughter's political and other ambitions, which include embroiling the town in a costly and extremely weak lawsuit. And I would also like to know if the vice president um contacted the state ethics board to find out if her actions were legal.

Um, finally, one of the arguments against 3A has been that the state could come in and start building. So far, 165 communities have complied and the state has not forced anyone to develop anything. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi. Um I don't know if I can see over there Mark Hamilton precinct 2. I come before you once again to remind you of the promise made not just to the Tilestone Gertstone and Pico neighbor Pico Beach neighborhoods but to all the impacted coastal areas within this town. Two years ago, you vowed to resolve the drainage issues and progre and progress has been made. However, the town will require four and a half million dollars to complete those two projects. I have paid close attention to our town meetings, a planning board zoning 3A claim with zero units on our town and a detailed climate commission phase report. Recently, I heard Karen Chavez say that in 2027, our municipal GIC insurancees will skyrocket. I paid attention when Kim Dimes told us about the CZM report and what's expected of coastal communities within the next 5 to 10 years. I paid attention when our council president inferred that there might be a drainage tax on top of all other taxes moving forward in the future. I paid attention when our tree warden lost out on a cooling grant and now has formed a GoFundMe account for trees. Think of that. This is who we are now. I want answers from this council in real time items to be put on the agenda moving forward. I want to know who's going to move forward with the bus stop sheltering for our MBTA bus stops that were talked about and planned. I want to know who's going to keep up on our capital plan initiatives. I want to know who how we're going to avoid a strike by teachers as their contracts haven't been approved and our ESPs don't even make a living wage. I want to know why the Euro Beach Burm and grass placements haven't occurred as promised. And more specifically, I want to know if we are going to have to downsize the firehouse and forego making it a state-of-the-art firehouse due to

loss of grant money by the state. These are important projects. These are important issues. And here we are 2026. We have formed committees. We get their expertise, advice and information. and we disregard their disregard their work. It's unacceptable. I want important issues put on the agenda in real time. I want people to know just how much money you're going to invest in a fight with the state and where that money is going to come from in our budgets and that information be put on the manager's report monthly. I want you all to remember that we are surrounded by state entities that mandate things from us. DCR, DP, Massport, MWR all surround us. And finally, I want a presentation about our shelter in place policy. We've had three fires. We've had three fires, two near misses from Massport Plains, and one closure of our Beach Mont route. I think it's time that this town presents a plan and inform its residents. Keep in mind if you lose this argument, the state will come in and force Wintham to comply in areas that you might not want to be zoned as 3A. Your voice and your votes are for more than just a group of people. You represent all the people of Winter. Thank you.

Um so I'm not going to read from a piece of paper. They've already Say your name and preinct.

Diane Sans preinct five. Um, they've already covered everything. They remain the same from the beginning. Lee and Marcy, they're known, but we understand it. We don't need any full letters. I am a yes, obviously. But what I want to say is I want to address the two new counselors, Kim and Kurt, and how they might vote tonight. Both of them campaigned on pro-exemption anti3A. Both of them said that's what they were for. They got elected on that. And now I hear they might betray the town and vote differently. And that's a real betrayal. When people thought you were supporting what they believed in, you have to reconsider what you're doing. Please honor your word. Do what you said you would do and vote to be part of the exemption. Um, I heard that you didn't have enough information, either one of you. This exemption has been almost almost two years around. You certainly had the time to look it up. You going to run for office, you should be prepared with full knowledge of what's going on, and this is the biggest thing in our town right now. So, if you haven't read the exemption, I encourage you to do so. Um, I I I assume you have by this time because I know you were sent in, but I don't know what kind of information you require more than this. Can you write it out what you would like to know? I think it's just a delaying tactic as I thought Kim raising her hand and and claiming executive privilege at the last meeting was a delaying tactic as well. I believe someone has gotten to them to change them so much that's I'm not saying anything bad about anyone, but someone

has obviously changed their mind. And I don't know how this happens when you campaign and the election was in November, the first week of November. So you campaigned all on that, got elected in November, sworn in in January, and in two meetings, you've changed. How does that happen? That's basically all I have to say at this point. Thank you for listening. Yes, sir. Uh I've been uh here before Oh, I'm sorry. Uh Bill Demo

uh precinct 5. Um I've been here before uh at previous meetings making my thoughts known on the 3A issue. I do understand people's depth of feeling about preserving Winthre as is, but I don't think we will suffer any of the serious consequences that people have speculated about. I think the adoption of the requirements of 3 3A will be little more than a non-event. Having said that, if those who feel differently want to negotiate or legislate an exemption for the town, I say go for it. I think it's I I'm I'm not I wouldn't take those odds. Uh, but I guess it's your time as long as it's not our money. But as far as the cost of suing the state or defending uh against a lawsuit brought by the AG goes, save the town and its residents the money. We're taxed enough without throwing good money after bad. I get that there is a sense of the of of sort of victimhood about being forced to comply with the state, but let's not add injury to insult. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone. Yes. Dave Youngs, precinct 5.

Good evening. I'd like to start off by thanking the town council and staff for their time and consideration tonight. It's a hard, thankless job, and I deeply appreciate your commitment to our town and community. So, let's get to it. Look, I don't think anyone in this room likes 3A, whether you're for it, against it, it's it's bad law, but it is the law and we have to follow it. And I want to start off by talking about Milton. We've discussed how they went to court. We've talked about the outcomes, [clears throat] the coulds, the woulds, they should have done this, they should have tried that. We haven't discussed is what it actually takes to bring a case like this to the state supreme court. Let me tell you a little bit about the two lawyers, Kevin Martin and Jamie Santos, who represented Milton. They both come from Goodwin, a globally renowned firm with over 1,600 attorneys and thousands of other supporting capabilities. Kevin partner at Goodwin. Uh, bachelors of science from Georgetown, JD from Colombia, law clerk under Justice Scalia of the Supreme Court. I think you all know where I'm getting with this. Jamie also comes from has a jurist doctorate from Harvard, law clerk for the ninth supreme court, excuse me, the ninth court, law clerk for the US District Court, proono civil rights recognized attorney. Wonderful. This is quite literally the legal equivalent of Seal Team Six. These are attorneys who have devoted their careers to litigation at the highest level of court. One does not get to this level by losing or being anything less than stellar at their understanding of the law. Not only are they individually talented, but they have a small army of associates and parillegals putting in countless hours of legal research to find every possible loophole and tactic to win for million. They aren't an anomaly. This is a standard. This is what every law firm does that operates at this level. Why? Because the legal bar level is profoundly high and there is zero room

for error. With all that time and experience, they lost. They lost. Are we to think that we know something that Goodwin doesn't? Do we have some sort of upper hand, some sort of ace in the hole, something that they didn't think about? That were the case, there'd be more talents and other people that would go with us against this, but they're not here. If this is such an appropriate and wellthoughtout legal strategy, then there would be far more talent supporting us. And of course you and some of the other others in this room think this because we've been [clears throat] profoundly misled. The geography of this town is totally different.

At this point you'll see everybody have a good time. At this point I think it's safe to say we all know Deian Vines. Excuse me. Diana Vines. Excuse me if I'm mispronouncing her name. For starters, her online behavior is deeply problematic. While she may not have a right may have a right to post vitriillic comments. It's not behavior that exudes professionalism or confidence. It's behavior reserved for egoists who have learned not learned humility who would rather take others down in a sinking ship and admit their plotted a course poorly. Go search up. Go and look in Google. Go and look and see what experience she has. Here, please.

I'd like to finish this. You can finish. You can have another 15 seconds. Great. Look, just because you've got a a law degree, that doesn't mean you are qualified to represent this town. And look, we all deserve better than someone that is going to behave that way. Who can't even submit a legal document without typos? Also, is it true, Councilman Swope, that she's your daughter? We deserve it. Thank you, sir. Yes. Long enough. Hi. Uh, good evening. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Clara Rojave Pre. Excuse me. Just name and precinct again. I didn't hear you.

Clara Rojave, precinct tree. I want to build up on Davis. Nice to meet you. David as well. H is a it's a state fact or it's a fact that the board um or um or board planning board created a plan a very well executed plan that has zero in effective zero construction just uh present just complying and reszoning. And they also suggested at that point that one efficient solution would be complying and at the same time that we can continue with this fight or with this fight because we all know that the law is not perfect. That said, we know the resources that the town of Milton use more than $275,000 that this town clearly does not have as the best quality of lawyers. While when we compare what do we have? We had one person that has sued about this town, the town council, the town lawyer and has lost again, has lost an appeal and sue again and again. And that's where the town is putting their money on in someone that continuously loses every appeal, every lasso that he lost because no practice, there is no full-time practice of legal here. It's only a part-time practice lawyer. So I encourage everybody to seek other solutions that are not a completely no or a completely um waste of resources because it's proven that uh following these will get us 13 over. Thank you.

Thank you Todd. Todd appreciate two. [clears throat] Uh first I just want to comment that I I invite anybody that's got criticisms of anybody else in here or in the community step up and stop shouting from the chief seats. making fools themselves. As far as 3A, I think we have a reasonable solution that I would imagine everybody in this room would would at least consider. We have the pilot program coming up for negotiation. The airport has built runways on our land. Wouldn't it be a good stick in the to tell them we want our land back so we can zone it for 3A and let Massport and the governor's office fight it out? There you go.

There is no that there is no way that we don't win on that front. It's our land. We still own it. They pay us to rent it and we can certainly take them to task on it and we should. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. I'd like to say a couple words. First of all, Diana Vienn precinct as Vienn is my daughter. Excuse me. N Precinct first

uh Carl Xstein precinct 4 and Suzanne Swopee is my wife. So I listen to these insults and I find it disgusting. But the problem here is not is not that the problem isn't 3A. The problem is the executive office of housing and living communities which now has regulatory authority that is the ability to make law. So what is written now in as 3A as a law can be overridden at any moment by the EOHLC and we are subject to a whole different law environment [snorts] than what we are sitting around discussing here. Now, I find I'm I'm not happy about the fact that my precinct is under the authority of some plan for 3A, but it's meaningless because they can change those rules at any time and put any district in this town under its authority. And I really don't expect much construction to take forward in the near future because people are not constructing things due to the cost of construction and the nature of of development these days as has happened out at Suffuk towns. They stopped constructing because the the economics were wrong for developers. But our our future is at risk. the whole town is at risk because of this eh uh whatever it is ehlc it's and I'm not sure how we address that but that is the issue and we're focused really on the wrong issue all

around so uh I would suggest that the council start looking at solutions for how we address this unknown future rather than just 3A. Thank you. Thank you.

Celeste Veru, precinct one. Um I'm just going to reiterate [clears throat] what I've been saying all along. Um there's been two very specific paths that we can take to avoid any perceived negative [clears throat] impacts from 3A. First is to submit the plan that was developed by the consultants and our planning board, which equates to zero additional housing. Just because you zone for something to your point, sir, um doesn't mean it gets built for a number of reasons. At the same time, I will um you know, redirect folks to the fact that despite all this public battle about 3A, there's been about 90 to 100 units over the span of four or five projects that are pretty close to being approved in town with very [clears throat] little chatter about them. So, there's that. Um I do find a little bit humorous that the conversation happened in executive um committee tonight because this has been playing out in the public forum for the last two plus years and we have yet to hear anything really tangible outside of submitting the plan or we would have had the opportunity two plus years ago to partner with 177 communities to launch a meaningful repeal initiative that would have put this in front of the state and we failed to do so. We failed to get any real meaningful direction in that. I know somebody who's very familiar with repeal. Um my brother who launched the statewide repeal initiative offered his services to the opposition group. It was declined. That's fine. Um but those are the two real meaningful paths. At this point, we're looking at the space and time between November and today seems short, but it's a very vast distance. We are finding that we are one of seven communities that are still holding on and we're now being sued. We have no resources to meet the needs of the town. It was made abundantly clear in the last town council meeting that if we want to accomplish anything in town, including hold up promises made um decades ago to save off infrastructure, climate, flooding concerns, we're going to have to raise that money oursel. We don't

have the money for the lawsuit from the state. We don't have the money to sue the state. We don't have the money to make anything happen. That's all new revelations, I think, to many of you sitting up there. I prevail upon you to call on your political courage. You have now been selected to serve everyone in this town, not just the votes that brought you there. So, I'm imploring you and encouraging you to do the right thing. We cannot sink more deeply into debt. I'm not willing to risk my family's generational wealth or anybody else's generational wealth. I ask you to do the right thing to put this behind us to submit the plan which is exemption. That is exemption. That is EOHLC's definition of exemption. Thank you.

Hi reason 2. Um, I just want to say thank you so much for all of your hard and diligent work, but I also want to remind you [clears throat] that you all got voted in with a majority of running on 3A and being anti- 3A and that you guys would do everything in your power to exempt us from it. Whatever that route is, we the people had faith in you that you would do it and that's why you elected to your seats. So, I hope you all carry that out. When it comes to this exemption thing, one of two things are going to happen. Either a new government is going to be put in place and things legally will be able to repeal it and or we as a town stand up and fight back. I don't ever want to see Winth to get into a place where New York City is right now. Do does anyone know about the COPA act? Okay. So what is to say that if the COPA act works in Manhattan that it's not implemented in Massachusetts just like the Freedom to Move Act. Some people didn't say that that was a thing. That's right now in Massachusetts legislature right now being signed off and voted on. So you tax on every mile another tax. Where do we stop and say we the people don't want this stuff. we want to say and where do we stand up for ourselves and vote people in who will stand up and be our voice. So I'm just asking that you all carry out the job that we asked you to do and vote you to do for because when is enough enough? Where do we draw the line? Winth is incredibly unique and we need to keep it that way. I understand that we're part of seven other towns and a lot of folks don't like it but we really are very very unique. Um, and a lot of the variables and facts back it up. It's just not talking points. So, I do implore you and I ask you to carry out what you were voted in to do for. Thank you. [clears throat]

Yes.

Lois Baxter, precinct 2. Um, I'm here to say that I hope that you do join the exemption case that I am against 3A. I have always been against 3A. And to that gentleman that talked about Milton losing their case, Milton is in a Winthrop. Winthre is a small town. We had a major snowstorm. The floodgates this past Monday had to be shut, right? I think. And all of us that my family that leave went to go to work from McGee Corner to Mlen Highway which is what 2 miles at the most took us 45 minutes in traffic. You want to put more development in this town. It can't handle it. You've got um the funeral home now what's going to have what 42 more units. There's 42 more cars. You've got the place down on Shirley Street that's going to have condos. We've got enough development in this town. If I think if it went to court and they came into with these lawyers and judges, they'd 100% agree that we should be exempt because there is no place to build and we're and it's going to get worse and worse. You say with flooding and stuff when they have to close um short beach to get because of flooding and there is no money. I see it with grants. There's no money coming into the state for these projects. The only thing that maybe you might get is a I'm not saying you have to, [laughter] but it's these people on Bank Street. There's that program if you want to sell your house and they buy it and they move you. I wouldn't want to do that, but there are those type of programs if they're afraid of flooding. But you're flooding all over the town. You're flooding across the street from Atlantis Marina. He never used to flood on that street because you built there and filled in

land. So I ask you that you please stay and vote for the exemption. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh Mike Hill precinct 2. Uh thought experiment. Uh let's just say we sign on to an exemption. Let's say we go to the SJC. We go all the way to the SJC with this. The legal precedent is there. The outcome is certain. The SJC determined that the AG can compel compliance. That can be done on our terms [snorts] now sooner or it can be done on the AG's terms which will almost assuredly be not having, you know, less density in mind. Let's put it that way. Um, we saw RKG's presentation. I think we know where the state's going to draw the zones if it comes down to it. I had a lot I wanted to say and um so many people said it so much better than I could have. What I want to say to the new people and to the people who have said repeatedly tonight that they were elected because of 3A. Let's put you in in my head for the past couple months and think maybe Kim and Joe and Kurt were elected because they were better candidates, more well-rounded. They had something that we didn't, right? That was giving people the confidence to vote for them. to whittle this down to. As much as I would have loved to do that, to whittle it down to one single issue, it's not one single issue. Don't let anybody tell you, anybody tell you that you owe loyalty to an issue, right? Something that is completely ethereal, right? Just this idea that something might happen down the road and we don't know, right? You have a loyalty to do what's right for

the people of Winthroat. And I I came in here nervous, but I I don't know. I have somewhat of a a better feeling that you guys are going to do what's right over the next few months. And I I really hope you do. Uh I'm fresh off of surgery. I'm in a horrific amount of pain, but I came down here in person to tell you guys that. And I really hope you do. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, Mr. Jack Dog, precinct 6. I I I did a hand out to everybody on the council to the manager and and to put in the minutes, and I hope everybody realizes what I'm talking about. This these words are an alarm from Aaron. It was an alarm and that's why uh a lot of people are showing up here on the east borders and it was described to me. I was at a a climate commission. It was it was not a very good meeting. It was the last meeting that I was and they were talking about you know there's a problem in the town and you know all these vote no people are causing big problems in the town. Well that was decided on November the 4th. On November the 4th, it was an overwhelming victory for the people that want don't want the state to come in here and build 882. This is really an alarm and that's why and that meeting it was described to me by a young man that the people that were talking and I was perplexed about how to understand this climate meeting and I was very perplexed. He said he said Jack these are very bitter people at this point and the bitter people are sitting right here as far as this gentleman's concerned and the gentleman behind over here uh Mut hasn't spent a dime no one dime nothing with this case with this exemption case zero and so uh when everybody's saying we don't want to spend a lot of money no money has been spent so I want you to understand that pro bono two very very intelligent lawyers and I think they're going to win and I hope they win.

I hope all these dissenters and bitter people don't show up again with all these same old the same old rhetoric as as uh Erin described in her in her comments uh two weeks ago today. Some of the things she said she was concerned about the safety for [clears throat] all residents of the town. These are her words. This is verbatim, by the way. I asked for it. I got it. They do not feel safe no matter what their status. And I commented after Eron commented. I I feel very very safe in this town except when a few people attacked me at night with their camera phones in my face. And by the way, that's against the law. You broke the law. And you'll be hearing about it. And uh and and this person right here that has her hand raised, she attacked.

Is this appropriate? Singling someone out. Can you address the council, please? I'm I'm reading the minutes of the meeting. Two weeks. Two weeks ago. I'm reading it right now. So that's what I'm saying. Well, thank you. Also add we don't feel unsafe. And then she goes on, you know, with all these yesterday words and very very confusing. It's It's confusing enough for people in this room. Never mind trying to explain it to the rest of the people in the town. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, Aaron Barcel. I guess I'll just read my comments um that he that he has for me. So, my first public comment that I made two weeks ago um start the way I normally do. I'm gonna again invite all of the members of the council and all of the members of the community to join us at our Saturday standouts from 10 to 12 on Bell Bridge. We stand out for many different reasons. It doesn't need to be something specific. There's people that stand out um for just for overall due justice, due process, which is very important. That being said, what the town council, the town manager, the Windor police department, the Windsor fire department, and the school committee, what are they doing to help ensure felt safety for all residents and town? I don't know if, sorry, it's confusing because the pronouns changing because it's me talking, but it's rewarding. Um, I don't know if anyone talked to people, but there are a lot of people in this town that don't feel safe. And it's not about their documentation status. It's not about people that couldn't have been born here, lived here the whole life. It's about the shades of their skin. It's not unsafess because of the people in town. That's not at all what I've been saying. It's an overwhelming fear of just people can be stopped. again, not by the police in town, not by having different services being mean to them in town. It's an overwhelming fear. So, if we were just able to say that and make people feel welcome and have everybody be able to get together and be okay. Sorry, I went off topic. Um, so that's basically what my comments generally are, but if y'all would like a coffee, um, Jack has them. So if anyone has a question again one my second comment on here I um stated that which I

always state if anyone would love like to talk to me I love having conversations I just won't get into it on Facebook I will have in inerson conversations no problem so feel free to reach out to me thanks [applause]

good evening everybody like to begin by congratulating the town council and your willingness to serve our town I know presently the council needs to decide if they are willing to pursue pursue an exemption case. There are other options available, but we know they're not going to be successful. We know we're never going to repeal this state law because it's here. So, that's a fruitless effort. We know negotiation is also going to be a fruitless effort because the state with this law has no incentive to negotiate in our town or any other of these towns. Andrea Campbell has stated that that it's mandated. it's the law and she's going to follow it. So, our belief that we're going to negotiate, I think, is going down a false road. The state also has no incentive to negotiate because it will set a precedent with other towns for non-compliance. They don't want that precedent. And lastly, they're not going to be willing to negotiate because um they feel that it would be discriminatory if they now negotiate with us. What about all the other towns that were forced into compliance and didn't have that option? So the only viable option left, no repeal of the law, no negotiation, it's an exemption case. An exemption case in my mind is so favorable to the town that we should all be agreeing. We are unique. We're not any other town or city. Our characteristics regarding small land mass, over densification, limited access in and out of town, and falling under the safe harbors law. These are reasons we should be pursuing an exemption. It does a many advantages. It protects the citizens with personal and property rights against state encroachment. I'm hearing people talk about the law. You don't understand the meaning of law. It's not will it happen or it probably won't happen. It can happen. The law is very clear that development can happen. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will come.

And don't be deceived of thinking it's only Seal Harbor or Fort Heath or Governor's Park or the central business district. It can be your neighborhood next because there'll be no control over the state expanding designated zones. You and a false sense of belief and that's not a reality. Uh other advantages, we maintain our local control. We determine where we want to build and give approval for that. We don't want to leave that to the state to come in and call all those decisions and lose our independence. We will eliminate under an exemption our non-compliance stats. That's a big plus because with non-compliance status being eliminated, we are qualified to go for state grants and it will give us a very special status. It will spare us additional expenses for infrastructure because then again we determine what we want to spend on infrastructure and not force because of overpopulation to spend a lot of money. You're concerned about money. wait until you have to do the infrastructure around town because of police, fire, roads, sewage, and [snorts] all the other considerations. Please just give me a couple of more seconds.

15 seconds. Um the town council in pursuing an exemption demonstrates that we stand together strong, that we go to the state, and that we seek this exemption. United we're going to win. Divided will surely fall, and it will be to our disadvantage. The stakes are high. We all know what the stakes are. I urge the council to continue to pursue an exemption. If you don't like the current exemption that's been filed, change it then. If you have a problem with the language or a few words here or there, the concept is good and you owe it to the town to tell us. One, do you believe in a general exemption and pursue it? And two, if you don't like that case, then change it, but don't abandon the opportunity to have it.

We're just one comment per person right now. Mark, [clears throat] Mr. Senate precinct 2. Um, next to the disagreement of the other side, the election was about 3A. It was overwhelmingly about 3. Um, Council of Dimes, they dragged you through the mud and the muck and everything else. And in spite of that, with 842 votes being cast for you, you got 522. That's a beatdown of your opponent. You ran on an exception. You ran on number 3A. I'm just asking you to stick to your word. Council Mala, you publicly stated as well. You wanted you were in favor of the exemption. I don't know why you changed your mind. [clears throat] I It escapes me. Maybe Dian maybe Diane Sans is right. Somebody go. But this is about 3A. This election was 100% about 3A and you you know you're all forgetting about a a small bit of language in this law as of right or as of right or by right. That's what the state's going to do to us. They have we have no legal recourse because it's an as of right or by right law. We will have no legal recourse if we accept this. I urge this should be a seven to one vote tonight,

right? Hands down because we know Max is not going to vote for it. Okay. It should be a seven to one. And yes, like Todd said, yes, we should hold Maxport hostage over that land. That's our land. And and let them negotiate with them. Um I urge my counselor to please vote to accept this motion. Thank you. We're just doing one comment per Yes. May I? Yes, you may. May I apologize for being seated? First of all, congratulations. And I know just for the record,

I'm sorry precinct 4. I'm totally against Massachusetts MBTA 3A and totally support my Winthropstown government and overwhelmingly public support in opposition of 3A here in our densely populated community. Only 10 states were chosen to participate. Why and who chose these states? No compliance sees federal and state funding taken away. State grants, taxpayer monies, i.e. the winter tree projects fund in question are gone. Outside developers laying out areas for building new apartments. Originally, Winthrop was assessed making housing to accommodate 820 some odd people. That got changed down to accommodate over 600 plus individuals. Example, land up in the Highlands was squeezed between Seal Harour 1 and two and Seal Harour 3. Also to build on land down in Governor's Park on both both of these parcels are already built up with already impacted in her schools, her precincts, her public service providers, police and fire. Traffic coming and going daily is a very prompt and very bold heavy example of what the town is faced with. Traffic and coming going in and out daily. Winter Pez Logan airport issues with air quality and noise. MWR with chemical trucks, workers, visitors coming and going daily. If one takes an aerial view of Winthra, one can clearly

see the density here in town. Our state government committed to this 3A project along with naming the Commonwealth as a sanctuary state. My suggestion would be there are many buildings in downtown Boston that are already built and have large vacancies at their disposal. committees and communities such as Saras, Cambridge, Summable, and many more that are already connected with MBTA transportation sites could offer all this 3A that seeks to house and educate and provide for. This 3A is not doable here in Winthrop and should not be held up as you comply or you pay the price. Sincerely, thank you. [applause] Rob DeMarco, [snorts]

you hear us? Can you unmute? Can you hear me now? Yeah. All right. Ignore the council at the Monaco sign because that's obviously outdated, but I did miss all you guys. Um ju just name and precinct please. Rob Rob Demco precinct 6.

So uh first off um let's give councel dimes and counselor a chance to do their job. They haven't made a vote yet. So like it's it's all speculation. You don't know how they're going to vote. Um, they're both very capable people and I support them both 100%. So, I want you to give them an opportunity to do their jobs before you determine what they're going to do because you don't know. Um, counselor swoop. Um, there is no reason for her to be attacked whatsoever or her daughter. All right. All they are doing is standing up for what Win voted for was the anti3A vote. That's what they're standing up for. What it's not 50%, it's not 60%. It's 90% of what the town won. And that's why we had the election results that we had. Um so and finally when it comes to the state versus the town of Winthrop this we have to give into the state why I want you all to ask yourself why because when it comes to the state okay if we don't follow state law well the state doesn't follow federal law so the state doesn't follow immigration laws and ICE laws But we have to give in to the state. As far as I'm concerned, the state can go to hell. [clears throat]

Diana Venz.

Hi, uh, Diana Ven, precinct 2. Um, thank you for, uh, for everyone being here tonight. I think some some some faces that have been here through and through and I see some newcomers as well. Um unfortunate about the comments. I think uh as newcomers you should know that we do not treat each other this way. We don't know each other but I don't like being called an egoist. I that's pretty silly. But but I also want to um since since some folks are new want to announce that we we have a running volunteer list for volunteering your your neighborhood or your home for I3A zone. So please do contact me um should that be of interest to you. Uh just to sec set the record straight, I do volunteer all of my time and of course Massachusetts and everyone who lives here has way too many degrees. If you want to compare degrees, I I I don't want to put you to sleep with mine. Um, with respect to Milton, somebody raised Kevin Martin. Not sure if that person knows him, but I do. I think he did a brilliant job in the Milton case, which by the way was a win for for the people of Massachusetts. The all claims

[snorts]

Can you hear me? Yes.

Okay. At the end of the day, what we have going on here is a is a sort of a regurgitateation of a referendum on 3A. Um, it's it's unfortunate. We didn't anticipate this, especially given all the work that we did during the campaign, but here we are, right? So, um, I hope that sort of some of the I'll just say it, call it like it is, right? like nasty comments tonight towards myself and my parents, which is wild. Um, again, all of my time is on a volunteer basis. Nobody knows that better than my children, who I um basically don't see after my full-time job dealing with this stuff. Um um I hope that the three counselors who have kind of um you know gone a different way have seen what you know have heard what they've heard tonight and and and and see this as a wakeup call. I will say also that um with respect to these ideas about the original plan, that's not happening, right? We're not getting over our CBD. And furthermore, um 3A as a general rule, if anyone who knows what's on the books, only requires that with zone 12 acres. Well, the planning board zoned 43. Again, we're not giving over our CBD and and according to the lack of response from the head of the planning board. We can't uh we can't possibly accommodate 882 units zoning in the 12 acres that [cough] the [clears throat] only um uh square footage were required under 3A. Um uh today we filed the state of enforcement in the SUFFK superior court. If we're successful there, uh, the AG cannot pursue her case against Winthrop 3A and all of its punitive measures with respect to grants, which are basically

across the board 3A MDTA communities or not because the state's basically out of money cannot be enforced against Winthrop. And if we're successful there, I would seriously hope that any counselor that has any question or at least interest in whether exhausting its remedies before going full force on a solution that clearly wasn't meant for us would then reconsider uh joining the exemption because at the end of the day standing is the AG's biggest, you know, real challenge against the exemption case And just like East Boston, we have every right to be exempt from this law given our circumstances. Thank you.

That's all. Thanks so much. Thank you. [applause]

Um just before we go on and we'll have another public. We do have one more. Brian. Brian. Yes. Hey, can you hear me? Yes.

Yes. My name is Brian Martinovich. I'm in precinct um 6. Uh some of you may know me as the person that started with voters. I'll appreciate your time and my allowance to join you by comment. I would just um uh put it quite simply, right? Um if if certain people that are present wouldn't feel so inclined to start a campaign uh for funding the impending lawsuit, that would be great as as well. So, let's see if we can get that set up. Um, the bottom line is we the people do not want to throw our money away for something frivolous that will inevitably conclude in compliance being forced upon us. This is going to happen. It's not speculative. There was a case where Milton lost and that set something called a precedent. We will follow them. I also don't think that the person who has been proposed as seemingly representing the town is not even really a currently practicing lawyer. There was a man in the audience prior that gave you the credentials of the law firm that was representing Milton and the outcome was the same. I beg and implore you to not waste our taxpayer dollars on this lawsuit. If you feel so inclined, pay for it out of your own pocket. Thank you.

Thank you. Great. That's the end of public comment period. I will say we will be having a second public comment period.

Please try to use the com. Please address your comments to the council and please address the council as counselors. I know they deserve you might not agree with them or any of them whatever but they deserve to be treated with respect as do your local citizens. This is you know It's like the the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And I don't mean that in winup. I mean that from the top down. And what I see in this town just disappoints me at times. And I'm just as [snorts] as a citizen, as the council president, but just we're so much better than the way we are sometimes. I know we're so much better. We're always there in the people when we need it and just try to treat each other with respect. That's all I ask. I could take the criticism anytime, any day. I get enough of it, so it's not a big deal, but just with a little sp. Thank you. Um, let's see. Correspondents. We had many correspondents. Uh, a lot did ask, somebody read in correspondence earlier. Some probably a half a dozen or more people asked for comments to be read in. We cannot do that right now, but all those comments will be on the website and I'll ask Denise anything else about those.

Yeah, they're all going to be in the record. I'm going to attach them to the minutes of tonight's meeting. So, we have all that. I did receive 28 up to 5:00 p.m. and 134 15 against the exemption. That's how we look at it now. But everybody uh correspondents will be on the web.

All right. um committee reports. Just a quick update on the firehouse building committee. We met last evening and um you know obviously it's it's not a big report. Everybody can see the action just as we can say it. But the middle school building is down. Um they are taking roughly 10 truckloads, 101 18 wheelers a day out in debris. The debris is separated into rebar and concrete. All that debris is going to be recycled which is good. Up here on the screen here we have and again nothing is set in stone but as of now this is the rendering. How it differs mostly from the original rendering when the vote was was basically it's just flipped with the apparatus base being on the right side of the building instead of the left. Um again just to give you a quick update this is the most recent rendering as to the finished project. You can see on the right hand side just for observation that would be the coming gymnasium. Um there will be a walkway walk path through between the firehouse built between the firehouse and the gymnasium which will be access to Engleside Park or from Engleside Park and towards the center. Um the furthest left of the building where it's at its peak height, the peak height there is 46 feet. However, it's sunken down from the sidewalk so it wouldn't have the effect of 46 ft. It is also from the closest point to the sidewalk roughly 52 feet away where the old middle school was roughly 15 feet away. So it's definitely set back further. Um, so again, this is just a current um, rendering of where

we're going. It will probably take over maybe the end of this week or into next week, you will start seeing the demolition of the auditorium. It will take an additional three to four weeks um, or maybe three to five weeks to get all the debris out to have a clean uh, site. So the goal is right now by the end of February, very early March, you will have a clean site. The fence will stay up throughout the whole process. Um, and just an update, I know there was a question asked um about the memorial uh for the Saluchi family and um that plaque is in the custody of the town. That plaque along with a bench donated by the town along with a new tree will be planted at Saluchi field with a permanent memorial date. Um it my understanding is has also been discussed with the family this is not something we're just doing on our own. Um but again this is going to be an ongoing process. Uh we were informed last night we are still on budget. Everything seems good. Once the site is clear, um the the surprises, I guess, are pretty much gone. You know, the surprises going in is what's in the building, what's under the building, what's the foundation look like and such. Um so, you know, that's good news. Uh so, we just want to keep you updated on that and we will continue to do that as the process unfolds. probably in early March we will be having another the third neighborhood meeting but this meeting we would invite more inclusive for the hotel to come and start giving ideas you know about tweaks or whatever their thoughts are on this type of building and start to get into more logistics on the actual um processes how it will be developed and when it will start and such. So keep updated [cough] and there is

[clears throat] a site a link on the town's website to the fire out building committee and everything that we've done so far. So thank you for that school department report. Um last school committee meeting was canceled due to the snowstorm. So there will be a school committee meeting uh next Monday the 12th I believe it is. Update on policy committee. I definitely have an upgrade here somewhere. All right. 50 Somerset A. This is from the board of appeals. Requested to extend relief of a one-year variance. That's being heard. 6369 Putnham Street is requested to extend relief for a one-year variance. 210 Winth Street. The applicant seeks a permit to demo a pre-existing non-conforming structure and construct a fourstory mixeduse building. Um 44 Bowden Street. The applicant seeks a permit to remove the existing roof and construct a thirdf flooror addition to an existing single family home. 158 Highland A. The applicant seeks a permit to convert the current pre-existing non-conforming three family structure to a 4unit residential building and nothing to report on from the planning board right now. Um, town manager report, town manager report has been circulated. We'll take some questions in a minute. A couple things I just want to mention. First of all, somebody mentioned and you can't help but see the two feet of snow we have. And I want to extend my sincere thanks to Steve Calla. And I know Steve wouldn't take that credit himself. His crew did an amazing job. We have had issues um just getting rid of the snow.

Once you plow it, then it's trying to get rid of the mounds, making the vis making it more visible, especially when children are in school, trying to clear the parking lots completely, trying to get curb to curb. Um it's a where are we going to put the snow? I know Marblehead got special state permission to dump it in the water, but it's very hard, you know, to to put the snow someplace. We ended up with 18 wheel trucks that would dump the snow into so we could get rid of the snow. But I just want to publicly thank Steve and his crew for what I think is an amazing job. [applause] Also, a couple other um town manager Marino did and I don't know if this is in your report or not, but did recently today sent an email on a capital project out the gate.

I did that was actually Yeah. So, you sent it to the citizens finance committee members too so they can forward it around. Okay. And um um I had requested through the town manager several weeks back to try to reach out to the EOHLC. The acronym is very difficult for me to

the EOHLC [snorts] to um to have a possible discussion. That discussion will involve our state representative, also our state senator along with the secretary and a few members of his staff. Um we initially were were not given a green light for the meeting and then they've since [snorts] um welcomed the meeting. Uh so we do have a a meeting pencled in for next week. We will definitely be reporting back to the town on that meeting. Um, you know, we have many questions as do you all. Um, and I I think somebody well I know somebody said through a comment here today that most people agree it might be a bad law but people have different variations as to how to deal with the law. Um, so we have our questions and we are going to do you know our intentions are and have always been in the best interest of what is best for Windows in the future and in the present. So, we are going to do our very best in that conversation and we will keep you updated on that. Um,

what's the date? What's the date? The the date is sometime next week. It it is scheduled for Monday or Tuesday, but it will be before our next scheduled meeting. So, we will have a complete recap. Um, I will open this up to the council if if to town manager wants to give a brief update

just on the public comment about the insurance rates. Um we are having our insurance subcommittee meeting. Um [clears throat] we did get initial rates at the uh MMA conference. They sort of talked a little bit about that. They believe last year was 15%. This year they anticipate between 7 and 10. We're a blended rate because we have a bunch of different plans that we offer. So depending upon what the cost of the plan is and how many people we have taking that plan, our rate will probably fall somewhere in between there. We'll know more once they give us the plan rates and we can do the math on our end and figure out exactly what our increase rate is. But it should be a lot less than last year, which is a good thing. It's still going to be significant and just a given of the you know in numbers putting numbers to that number. It's it's north of5 to $600,000 of an increase to our current place. So it's definitely going to be an increase. Um it's it's again hard to say. It's kind of like when we did the trash contract. It's hard to say it's good news when you're going up potentially 8 n%.

Uh but that's in the range that we're looking. Um I'll I will open it up though for questions from council test. Thank you council president. Uh, thank you manager Marino. I just want to take another minute and thank Director Caller and the DBW for all the work that they did. [snorts] There were guys out there working like 48 72 almost straight out. I know that it looks like there wasn't a lot of snow that was moved around, but like they put in some serious hours. They did a lot of work and we're in a much better place than we would be without them. We'd be buried. Um, I'm sorry that the groundhog saw a shadow on the board. [laughter] Um, six weeks

just uh I know we have some some free cash stuff coming up. U just in terms of snow and ice budget. Do we know where we're at? And in basically will have cost us pretty much budget. Yeah. I mean I'm assuming the budget is gone. Yeah. I'm I'm concerned about where we're going to supplement the overage from and in in if free cash is where we're more than more than likely to be free cash. Thank you. Thank you again, D. And before we go to the next comment, I will say on top of the snow, we did have two water breaks in the middle of it.

Four, I'm sorry, I double it. Four water main breaks in the middle which which hampered the snow removal once the And we're still But snow removal is still going on for the remainder of the week and we still got the trucks in place. The goal is to get curb to curve on as many places as we can. Uh and just again to go over the parking ban is still in effect. If you do have a street that is curve to curb understanding is you are allowed to go. Correct. And we've been listing the streets on the website. So check the website. We just updated it today. Director Galla gave me the new list of all the streets they got to. So we've been updating the street list as we go along to let everybody know where they can park. Back on comments. I'm sorry. Vice

President,

I I commend your work and I just mentioned this before because I was in DC and what happened to DC is they had ice, then they had six inches of snow and then they had six inches of ice. So, they're not able to plow any sidewalk because the plows break on the sidewalk. The only way they can do that is literally chisel the ice. So, students were out of school all week long, no sidewalks. And so, um, I we didn't have exactly terrible like that, terrible marks like that, but it was still they had opportunity. Thank you, sir. The only I'll add and just because I know we received a few emails at council [clears throat] and stuff. Um, and I responded to a few of them, but you know, the the parking lots over by the schools and we've done a lot to take the snow off of Kennedy Drive and move it around the schools, but unfortunately the parking lots is where we dump the snow. Maybe people don't remember 2015 or didn't have kids in school at the time, but that's the spot where we stockpile the snow and a few other spots around town. So, we have to use those lots unfortunately, but Director Callerin's team went down Kennedy Drive today and opened it up more. So, I'll just say have some patience when you're picking up your children and dropping them off. It's it's a little slower with the lot not available, but you know, but we are getting there. So, thank you,

Council President. Thank you, John Council President. And uh this is no way a reflection of uh director caller in any way, but uh I received several calls as it relates to the school children

uh having to uh basically take pathways in the street uh down there near Franklin Hast [clears throat] around the school. Uh some of the homeowners failed to clear their snow. It's still still obstructed right now as we speak. Um and again, these were concerned parents of school children. Uh the cross uh uh intersection of down near McGee Cornet from the bus stop to the liquor store was was also not paved there. I actually saw a young school child going around the island uh to to get around that uh that snowbank. So I my concerns are such that um as we move forward and again no reflection of of the department. I know you're underst staffed. I know you're you're basically you're you're going as far as you can with limited resources. Uh but as far as the next snowstorm, uh maybe we can have a uh a [clears throat] plan, a snow removal plan that addresses getting the school children back to school safely first before maybe we hit some other areas of town. Prioritize. Uh that is a big concern of mine. And again, I think anyone who's putting school children or allowing them to walk or walking, again, some people weren't able to get their cars out of these snow banks on veterans and all the other parking lots. And meanwhile, their children are told they'd have to go to school. So, there are some issues here. And don't get me wrong, it's 2 ft of snow. I understand that. And, you know, here we are a week later and we, you know, we're still in a state of emergency as far as snow. Um, but I think maybe a prioritized removal plan uh might be best if uh you know we we were to maybe address the issues as far as sending the kids back to school but sending them back safely. So that's all I wanted to comment there but again no discredit to Mr. Cal with his limited

resources is doing a hell of a job. So thank Walk back again. Forget the old days when we walk to school, walk home and walk back again. Uphill both ways. I have a question. It comes to snow removal at the old middle school site. Is the contractors responsible for that or is that something the town still has to manage? Everything inside that fence is the responsibility of the contract. Okay. Outside is Thank you.

Thank you. old business. [clears throat] MBTA 3A exemption status. This is um continued from the last meeting. Um vice president [cough]

I [clears throat] put forward a motion last meeting to join the exemption case. This is the only exemption case at present that I know is ongoing and in front of courts. If we find, and I'm going to read it, if we find another path to exemption, I'm all for it. I mean, not wedded this. If there's something better that the town can do or come up with or they have a way to um manage this, I still am for an exemption. So, I'm reading this and this is the only path that I saw last time I was here. I'll read it again. It was tuned down last time. We'll see where it goes. Well, it wasn't just for clarification. It was not turned down.

I'm sorry. It was a table.

The town council moved to join the case seeking exemption from compliance for the MBTA Communities Act general law chapter 4A section 3A on the grounds that the application of this law is neither fair or equitable. Concerning. The application of this law will have profound harmful effects on the current residents of this town. The stocket number for the case is 2484 CB2351A. The W says no to 3A committee along with 10 respective community leaders seeks relief from the court by way of an exemption and compliance with this law as the executive executive office of housing and livable communities EOHLC has failed in their statutory duty to provide a mechanism for raising hardship and challenges with respect to arbitrary/harmful results as applied pursuant to chapter 3A section Given one, Winthre's unique circumstances and lack of actual space to accommodate the ultra high density zoning sought by section 3A, two, Winthre's decision for this council to twice reject the Winthre Planning Board's compliance proposal, and three, the need to preserve and protect the people of Winrip's expressed will to be heard by the judiciary judiciary in this matter. I move that the council vote to join the case for 3A exemption now in the subject superior court.

Okay. There's a motion presented by vice president. First I'll ask for a second. Second. Second by council uh council law. Um before we get into discussion, I'm going to give the vice president opportunity to amend that motion because legally the town council cannot enter into a lawsuit. Um the town council has the author and that's in the charter section 42 has the authority to has the authority to instruct the town manager and then I'll go over that process how it would work. So I'm going to just ask for an amendment. Thank you. That's amendment and I agree.

Okay. So there was so con I just want you No, you don't have to read it. Um con Vice President Swope is amending her motion. um to instruct that the town council instructs the town manager to um join the case and the rest of the motion would say the same. So, Vice President Schwar has made that amendment. [clears throat] Is there a second to the amendment? I'll second the amendment. Council man seconds the amendment. So, as amended, we'll start discussion and I'll just start from one end of the room down. That's easier.

Council,

yeah, thank you. Sorry, general council president. [clears throat] Uh, is there anything else we can say about the uh 3A? It's been said over the course of two years. Uh, a lot of Yeah, we've seen two sides of the road here. Again, I'm not going to go through all of everything we've said in the past two years, but uh I first want to commend uh attorney Vienn for all her hard work, the amount of time and effort she put into this. We wouldn't be here today in 2026 without her professionalism and abilities. She's the only reason why we're as far as we are. So, you know, anyone who wants to criticize that, I believe that uh Attorney Venz has already um given her time and service in excess of $200,000 to this case if you want to chalk up ours. Uh that being said, we have a lot of good people on the no and 3A side and you know to vilify anyone on that side for sticking up for win a unique town. How many times do I have to say that? You know the airport m I mean how many times do I have to say all of that as well? We know the issues here. There's safety issues. We just had a snowstorm. I mean it's still tough getting around town. The beach was closed. We have the complaints here is 45 minutes to get out of town. I mean, how much more can this town take? An exemption case would put us out of our misery as it relates to this bad law. That's all this is. And it's exemption. It's equivalent to us not or paper compliance if you want to call it that. This is a permanent paper compliance with all of the writing and all the legalities that would protect us. All of the other stuff has no protections. As Carol has mentioned many, many times, uh, we need guarantees here. This is the only way to guarantee that this town is safe. Uh, and, uh, we are exempt from a bad law. Um, I will

say the only way I will vote yes on this is if the state, uh, was to, uh, approve the 72% audit of the state house. Let's face it, we're going to keep the comments to this. All right. I yield. Thank you, Mr. President. Um, Council Kasani,

I agree with uh with Council Cost. Everything's been that there is to be said has been said about this. The only thing that I think is is guaranteed on this case is that it will lose. Uh, just like every other one has lost. So, I'm not really inclined to have the town attorney or the town manager dedicate their time and our tax dollars to fighting this case. If there are other avenues that the town attorney comes up with, then we should explore those avenues at that time. I don't think this is the one. Councelor, sorry.

I'd like to start off with that I have not changed my thoughts or views. I am against 3A and I am 400% exemption. Thank you. So I've said this multiple times where people have questioned me.

The thing that I wanted to do is make sure I got additional information on this. Um the town can't just jump on a lawsuit. There are more steps to go along with this. And I'm not sure people are clear that there is more to go along with this. Even when the council said if we were all to vote yes, there's still a whole another process to come that isn't put out there for full understanding. I personally, not being a counselor, would sign on to this. That's me personally. When you're starting to involve the town, there's more discussion that needs to be had with it. It's not a clearcut yes, just go do it. So I think that's where we need to also request additional information to have uh what the additional steps are timelines what it will take. You know we can still make a motion for the town for itself to be exempt and not go on to another case. And during my looking into not just the motion, but also the case and other cases and what's gone on, uh it's it's pretty interesting to find that a lot of municipalities that join on committee type lawsuits, a lot of courts dismiss them. If you look at the history of it, I've I spent hours and hours because of trying to hear everybody on this. And my vote is not based on someone flipping me. My vote is based on getting additional information. I've spoken twice on the phone with attorneys. Um I don't know if people on the no side knew that, but I have two long phone calls. I reached out to friends to try and get more information for a better

understanding of you know like what rule 9A is. Uh then we also have the 24 and trying to understand how that all works into play with this. So the hard part where people probably didn't understand me is that which I put out during my you know campaign was literally I dig into things. I want more information so I can have a well-rounded way to answer both sides. I have not changed my view. So saying that, I've done my research. I've got more information. I know where I stand. And if anybody really thinks that I flipped, I will have a one-on-one conversation with you. I'm happy to. I have not changed my view. What is your view?

Excuse me. I'm not going to bore you guys with the reasons why I'm against 3A. Um, I think we all in this room know the reasons why 3A is a bad law. I will say when it comes to exemption, I still believe that that's the best way forward. I haven't yet seen any other alternatives. My understanding is these attorneys have been working pro bono. So, I don't understand all this talk about it's going to cost the town additional funds. So yeah, that's all I had to say. Thank you, Vice President. You said it well.

The um it's been going on for so long. you all. You know, it's funny when we find ourselves in a bad situation up top, meaning this law, we end up squabbling among ourselves down below [clears throat] in this and we create such discord. And in the end, regardless of how we decide on this tonight or how we decide on what else we can in town. I'm hoping he can find exception. We need to be exempt from this law and I will fight till the end. And indeed, if we go down, we go down fighting and guess what? It's the state is won't be doing the same thing unless we can convince them. I don't I think that may not be the case. But I do think this is a political argument. I do think we face a lot of problems in housing across the country. I think you're going to see a article that um my husband and Jeff Turko and I wrote in the Globe. It's coming out probably tomorrow, the next day about an alternative to this to this decision of punitive behavior and cutting us off and making a care stick a big time problem. another way we could look at how we could build housing in a more equitable as well as a more positive way in this state and still accomplish the same thing. So, I'm going to vote for this motion, but I am open to other suggestions as to how we can get around this and not fight our way as a town because as I say, I think material curious.

Uh, council

um on January 20th, 2026, President Oh, thank you. And President Terry, um, I stated I needed more information and had questions and couldn't vote confidently on this motion um to join the exemption case. Um, I just want to make clear that my position on the MPTA communities act [clears throat] MGL chapter 48 section 3A has not changed. I believe this law to be a massive overreach by the state and its one-sizefits-all nature does not fit Winthrop's many challenges. I absolutely support an exemption for Winthre and I believe that we should continue pursuing one. While obtaining the information that I needed, I consulted with Attorney Simpleta and the town charter. President Latiri has already disclosed the town council does not have the jurisdiction or authority to enter into litigation without giving voting for the town manager to do it for us. That's his domain. That motion has been altered or amended for that. Um so I'll eliminate that from my from what I have to say. But I do want to say that I 100% support an exemption. But I do believe moving forward the town needs the town attorney SPetta to draw us up one and we need to move forward with that. The current exemption case is from 2024. There are parts of it that have already been ruled constitutional that the law is constitutional and it is not an unfunded mandate that has already been ruled on and that is still in this exemption case. It's obsolete language. I think that we need to start new. We need to start alto together. We need to move forward with our general counsel that is employed by the town of Winthur represents us and has the authority to do so. Um I'm making my decision on this motion tonight with the utmost integrity. My vote on this motion

reflects my responsibility as a counselor to make decisions based on facts, law, and community welfare. Thank you. Uh my position on 3A has been pretty clear and uh I think it's incumbent upon us to pursue every avenue we can fight like this with the state. I think this is one avenue that we should pursue. That doesn't limit us in any way. Doesn't mean we're going to just put all our chips in on that one bet. Um but I think I feel it's a comfort that we do pursue that tonight. All right. Before we go to a roll call vote, I will that [cough and clears throat] again I not to repeat what's already been said but in January 2025 I was the first person in this town to to say I'm against 3A and I'm against 3A and it was said again in the comment tonight I'm against 3A on the control issue and somebody said that you know we're building units the CBD is building units um a responsible develment devel velopment that's done with our guidance and our guidelines is what we'd like. So my my concern on TA has always been the control. However, if it is law, I understand it's the law. Um you know, whatever happens down the road and however this comes to fruition because one way or another is going to come to fruition, right? It's not going to go on forever, even though it seems like it has. Um, it will end. I would much rather my case [snorts] to be in a federal court rather than a state court because I think the laws are stacked against us and the courts are a little stacked against us in in the

Commonwealth. Um I do believe the prudence of entering um a 2024 case at this time is probably a little ill advised where we have a meeting with the EOHLC. Um along with Representative Tero and others um don't know if the town should be looking to fight in this venue. I do think the town needs to continue to fight. I've made those comments clear to the town manager and town attorney and uh and they're well willing to do that but in a prudent way just the way we take our responsibility and we take the responsibilities very seriously for the 19,000 plus people that live here. Um you know it's been talked about the cost of the lawsuit. the cost of lawsuit. It did cost Milton over 275 $275,000. We are incredibly fortunate to have council on staff on a salary and not on over here. So, I thank him for that. But, um, you know, you do have to be cognizant of money for the town. I do not think, and it was stated earlier that, you know, basically said like we're falling off a financial cliff. I do not see that. Maybe I see it through different glasses than others, but uh we have been very well managed. Uh and I think we're in a much better shape than many other [cough and clears throat] towns. I don't think the Commonwealth as a whole can state that and I think there's been a lot of very very bad decisions that does have an effect. Um I look at the grant money and that's obviously an issue, right? And I look at it uh not only in terms of the town but in terms of the school programs that are

being affected um significantly and need to look at avenues. It's this is not a this is not going to come down I don't believe to a you lose you're done you win you win. It's it's a compromise as everything usually in life is and I want to be able to fight another day in this. I am continuing to do everything I can to prevent 3A from coming to Winthre. Uh however, I want to do it in a prudent way. I do not think this specific suit is the right way to go right now. Having said that, I will ask for a roll call vote. So just for clarification, a yes vote would instruct would have the town council instruct the town manager to u become part of this exemption case. No vote would uh not do that at this time. It would not the other thing we have um and this would require five votes to pass. Just a simple majority [clears throat] council

cost again. Yes. Council Tineri, no. Council Malav, at this time, no. Council Romano, yes. Council Dimes, no. Councelor Weirden, yes. Vice President Swope, yes. President, NO. [applause] UM,

precinct 6 update. We have had another candidate. Right now, we have three candidates, Mr. Michael Gillespie, Mr. Martin Finn, and Mr. Danielle Floyd. Uh, we will take um applications or letters of interest until the next meeting. Uh so if you have uh an interest, please respond to the council prior to the February 19th 19th 20th.

February 20th meeting [laughter] February 17th meeting new business. All right. New business.

I move the town council appropriate retained earnings in the ferry enterprise fund in the amount of $20,000 to cover costs that the fund has or will incur in fiscal 26. Currently, these expenses include insurance. The finance office will apply the funds to various accounts where exemptions are occurring or take any other actions there too. I will refer this to finance. Um there is a subsequent motion that the town council appropriate the retained earnings in the rink enterprise fund of $20,000 for extraordinary repairs and maintenance of the mechanical equipment at the ice. Take any other action there too that will be referred council to vote on appropriated free cash. It's a little long going. Uh I move that town council vote to appropriate certified free cash as listed below or take any other action relative to their two free cash retained earning certification file is attached. Um basically just I give a brief summary. This is going to be referred to finance. It will be discussed in much more detail and you'll see more uh at the next council meeting. free cash uh certified as of July 1st 2025 of 2.783,529,000. Uh there was a set aside in our financial policy at 280 278,000 plus available to allocate a little over 2.5 million. The way we have our current financial plans and strategy um percentage- wise that will be broken down. So, general stabilization, we would um add 751,000 bringing the ending balance a little over slightly over $6 million. Capital stabilization would be allocated an additional 1.1 bringing the ending balance about 2.9 million. Building stabilization at 235, we would allocate 64 that is capped at

300,000. An education stabilization fund is at 1.504. Allocation of 75,000 plus would bring that fund balance up to a little over 1.5 million. And the ending free cash balance would be $779,000, which is not all of that money, but you know, that's where you're looking at some of your snow removal expense and such. There are certain items in a budget that can um be overspent. snow removal being [clears throat] one of them. Nobody Everybody understands that it's, you know, extremely hard to predict. Most cities and towns um provide a very low threshold because they know they can go over. We've tried to raise it every year. Once you raise it, you're not allowed to lower it again. So, we are still at a a lower clip, but we were not too long ago at 30 or 40,000 and now we're well over 100,000. So, um that's where some of that money goes. that will be referred to finance. Speaking of referred to finance and such, since we just um referred three motions to a committee that doesn't exist as of yet. So um it is still we have some um appointments to make now. So we have seven standing committees as of now. I had talked about it and I have a motion here to try to bring that to four. Right now the two committees that will stay as is hope is is finance and rules and ordinance. I will have appointments going out this evening. They might not be complete appointments because we're still missing a counselor and such, but we need to have at least two on finance so we can look at these motions. So those appointments will be coming out via email later. Um but there are

two motions here and they can be taken as you wish. And the first motion is that the town council approve the consolidation of the following town council standing committees. Public health and safety public works and um committee um public health and safety public works would be a consolidated committee. uh capital assets and economic development and appointments commissions and committees would be a consolidated meeting uh committee.

So there was a motion to consolidate those five committees into two. Um

so there's a motion by councelor dimes. Is there is there a second? There's a second by councel tasini. My reasoning for this is that last year couple reasons we had seven committees. the abundance of committee meetings uh of finance and rules ordinance. Um we also had approaching 30 subcommittee meetings last year and I believe we had minutes from two that's going to stop. So I've also um it's not difficult. I mean it it's hard to do the work and to set a committee and set a meeting and but to take minutes I have just made a simple form which I'll pass around and I encourage whoever the chair of these committees I you just have to write down basic information so people understand and these can be posted uh within a day or two of a meeting. That's another reason why we're cons I'm trying to consolidate the four committees. So, you know, makes the process a little bit easier. Um, and it wouldn't dilute the time of the council. So, the way this will probably end up if if this was to happen, you got four committees, three members to each committee, 12 members, eight counselors at some point. Uh, so four councils would be on two committees, one uh four councils would be on one. So, it's not taking up an abundance of time. Um, I would hope to see subcommittees meet on a time other than 15 or half an hour before committee before a council meeting so they get the time they deserve to be vetted out. Any discussions cash for example takes more than 20 minutes to to really discuss it. Um, so that motion has been made, seconded. Um, any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. Oppose no eyes have it. So now there were four committees. The appointments for finance and rules will be out later this evening. Uh and those are just those

vote appointments. There are I think one or two appointments we have. Town I I do have two two appointments. Town Council accept the appointment made by Town Council President Lati to appoint Cheryl Howard to the Firehouse Reuse Committee with a term in force until such time as we provided. Uh this is a committee I believe it has two people right now. Um trying to make two appointments tonight and maybe a third at the next meeting, but still looking for two other people. Um so there is a motion for Sher Howard. Is there a second? was seconded by Vice President Swope any discussion on that motion?

Yes. I want to use my counselor. I don't feel confident enough to make any committee appointments today. I haven't um I can't I don't feel comfortable taking a vote on anybody unless I have the names and the and the positions in advance which I have not yet been provided. So that's fine. You have that privilege. You chose not to use it at the last meeting. Yes. And I plan to from now on let you know. So, you're going to use your council privilege on every appointment that's made? Yes. Unless it's on the agenda in advance. Appointments are always on the agenda and then they're at the discretion of the council. You can choose it. That is put off until the next meeting. I would like to hear the other names first. Um, you'll hear it at the next meeting. Can't discuss it.

I only I only use the council for that motion. That's the only appointment I'm making tonight. Okay. Um, public comment. This public comment period will be limited to 10 minutes and I ask you just to state your name, state your precinct, and the council. Mh. John. Mr. Morgan.

Hi. John Morgan, precinct 4. I'm going to take it entirely different direction from what's happened tonight. I'd like to I would like to give uh uh my experience this past week after the storm. First of all, thank you to the DPW and everything that they do. Um it's been hard to navigate as a citizen and not just because of my white cane. Uh, I would also like to personally thank all the all the Paul River bus drivers. There hasn't been anywhere to stand except in the street. Um, these bus drivers when I'm on the bus, I have experienced these things myself and I can only speak for myself. uh they've they've gone out of their way to make sure that their passengers are safe entering and exiting the bus. I've also had a number of convers or tried to have conversations with the MBTA regarding snow shoveling of the bus stops. Uh the MBTA says it's Paul River's responsibility. Paul River says it's the MBTA's responsibility. So these imaginary fingers are pointing to each other and and if it wasn't for the DBW taking it upon themselves, we wouldn't have any clear bus stops. And I thank the DBW again. Um and again going back to the imaginary fingerpointing, I have my own finger and it's non- imaginary. [laughter]

Thank you. Diane,

producing five. Couple of things. Kurt and um Kim, I'm very disappointed in you. I um supported you and all your elections. I supported you. I also donated to you. I will never do it again. That being said, I don't know what the downside is to 3A to say no to it incurs nothing to go for an exemption. There's no penalty. What is the downside to it? I don't understand why you voted um against it. I want to say to Kim um let's see

again. All right. I just want to say in general um I'm trying to think Kim just said about January 20th she said something she was elected uh November 5th 25 but the exemption came out 9324 a year and a half ago. Nobody has enough information. Nobody's made a call anywhere. I haven't gotten any calls. Diana Vienn hasn't gotten any calls. Um, none of the attorneys have gotten any calls. What is the problem? You just vote against it and you don't have enough information. But that makes no sense. Get the information. That's your job. I don't know why you didn't get it.

All right. This has been out a year and a half, almost two years. That's all I have to say. It's shameful as far as I'm concerned. There's no downside.

Carol, precinct 4. I've heard the counselors say that they don't have sufficient information. They don't understand the exemption. Maybe the best role our town council uh legal counsel can play is to educate the council about the distinction between an exemption case and a lawsuit by the attorney general's office by the state. Those are different procedures. The proof has to be different. I understand how the attorney general wants to make an example of the 12 or nine communities that they're suing because it will set precedent. The exemption is completely unique and different. I I I'd even want him to be able to describe to us as citizens as well regarding would the state be against a unique exemption? Would they fight us? Because these are very different kinds of cases. They're not just both lawsuits who are going to spend a lot of [clears throat] money on them. I agree. No one wants to spend money on the attorney general's lawsuit against us and we're going to be lumped in with all those other communities. But our case of exemption is unique. We should educate ourselves on what that means and we should understand how the state's going to respond to that exemption because people are saying we're not going to win. You might be very much surprised to think that we have legitimacy. We've got a good case and we could could win it but we got to do it together with support.

Thank you [applause] Celeste. Celestri, precinct one. Um, I gotta say, tonight's vote went differently than I thought. Um, what I did hear council me and councelor Dimes and President Lati say is that the reason, the major reason why they didn't support going all in on this exemption, not that they're opposed to exemption, I heard wholeheartedly therefore exemption, um, is that the language is outdated. It has already been called out as not unconstitutional and so we'd be barking up the wrong street. So, I 100% appreciate the pause and the thought that you put in at this juncture. I also think that it's additionally prudent to rely on our town council um to represent us and to make sure that holistically the town is being um represented in accordance with the whole outlook of the town, not just one extreme side or another. Um, I encourage you as we go forward to continue to look at things through the same um, objective lens and look for optimum outcomes. Another continuing term that I've heard throughout members of the community and members of the council is it's about control. One of the biggest concerns that folks across the board should have. If this does not have the optimum outcome, one side or the other, we could be signaling to the state that the town of Winthre is incapable of controlling our own outcomes, whether it's 3A or the myriad of other issues, the infrastructure concerns we are unable to or unwilling to fund and issues [clears throat] that we're unable to or unwilling to pursue and we may end up in receiverhip. We may end up with a special disaster. Well, it's it's a true potential. So, that's a real um concern of mine and they I would hate to see the state in control completely of all of our fates. Thank you,

Marcy. Hi, Marcy. Marcy Hamilton, precinct 2. Did you see me or Yes, I did. I

Sorry. Um, first of all, I'd like to thank you all for your diligent, thoughtful work because it is a hard issue. We totally understand that 3A is a cookie cutter law. It is a constitutional law. We all think our town is special. We all think that way. But it is a law and you all took an oath to uphold the constitutional laws of the state of Massachusetts when you took your oath of office. That being said, I appreciate your thoughtful actions tonight. Number two, I would like to say if you didn't get a chance to um I would like to give a shout out to Anita Prebble. I wasn't here at the last meeting. The international night was amazing. I don't know if any of you got to go there, but the the our communities, our school communities are so diverse and so wonderful. And it was a joy to see all of those families coming together. That is where we get our demographic. Winth keeping Winth Winthrop it's always evolving and it's it that's the special part of this. We have built new homes. We have built new apartments. We have welcomed people into our community and we're not a cookie cutter community anymore. We are diverse and we're wonderful and we have to show respect to everybody and their points of view and this is where we do it. I wish you well next week on your meeting with the EOHLC and I wish you have a presentation here so that everybody can be informed as to what your information was and I trust our town manager and I trust our town attorney to move forward in a thoughtful respectful way that shows our love of this community. Thank you.

Kathleen Capuchio 49 welcome ask um the thought that our town is on the brink of rece receiverhip is so ludicrous and just speaks volumes as to just utter nonsense. We're not on the brink of receiverhip. Let let I mean come on. Um, I 100% respect our town counselor's votes on joining the exemption case. You are town counselors. You have the duty to review what's in front of you um and to make a decision. Um, I may not agree with you, but I frankly respect it. I respect your reasoning, but let me go to the reasoning. That's where I'm taking issue tonight. There was absolutely no really valid reasons and factual statements to not join the exemption. Um, you may have them and again, I I completely respect that. But what you need to do is actually state what those are. Do not state, "I don't have the information. The town's going to do it. The procedure wasn't followed." Be specific. Um, that's what I take issue with. I completely do not fault anyone for voting the way you did. That that's your right. We elected you to do that. Respect that. I don't respect hiding behind words and not actually stating what your issues are. Many of us have had conversations with you. Many of us have had conversations with others who have had conversations with you. There's a lot of backdoor things happening. Let's

be clear on that. It's happening. Just be honest. Say, "I'm not for it. I'm concerned about this. I'm concerned about that." But but let's just be honest. We see you. Winthre's not stupid. We see what's happening. And again, just be honest. That's what I implore all of you. Just be honest about it. Or if you're not going to be honest, just vote no or yes and be quiet.

But the other nonsense, we see it. So, please do not treat us like we don't know what's going on. Um, my main thing is is to Steve Kala and the DPW, you guys are just you rock. what you've done for the community and the people who constantly complaining that you know the streets aren't plowed appropriately and whatnot. I implore you like I have and I know others have come before the town council and ask for more funding. Our DPW workers can only do what they can do with the funding they have. So please it it you know complaining on Facebook is just not going to work. come before the council and say these guys and women need help. But again, let let's all just be honest here as to what's happening because enough of you have had conversations and enough of the community has had conversations. We know what's happening. Thank you.

One more comment. I'll I'll comment three more comments. Okay. So, uh Mr. sit down first and then jacked out precinct 6. [clears throat] My parents owned a house at 263 Winth Street for a combined 110 years. Very smart people and they knew what was going on. They never stepped foot in this building. The exact reason what happened here tonight. My mother said, "Why suffer with?" So that's the reason why they never came over here. I have a different viewpoint with all this rhetoric that's happening in this room with the dissenters and the people that like it are people really aren't telling the truth about how they vote in this instance. I see power, I see greed, and I see money. Those three elements, that's what I see happening. Has nothing to do with yes or no on on this boat. The exemption case has nothing to do with it. It's power, greed, and money. That's the issue here. Everybody knows it. Kathleen wouldn't express it the way I'm expressing it now, but that's what she I I got that message from her, what she said. So, everybody knows what's going on here. You can double talk all you want. You can cross your boat. Uh, from a a yes to a no. Everybody knows what's going on. power, greed, and money. Thank you, [applause]

Lisa. Precinct, too. Yes. I'm extremely upset about how the vote went tonight. There was no reason not to vote for the exemption. We're not breaking the law. It's you. It's to try to get out of what is there. Tonight, Jim, you talked about all these board of appeals hearing, more housing and development in this town. How much can we stand for development? Everybody wants to go three and four stories, add more housing, and you won't vote for an exemption. It can't hurt the town to vote for the exemption, and I'm sorry that you did not do that. The town spoke and they wanted the exemption. Thank you. [applause]

One more. Yeah. Carl Xstein again, four. First, I'm I'm disappointed about the vote and I thank Kurt and Kim. You have betrayed the counselor. Councelor, councelor Malar and councelor D. I think you disappointed the not just me but people who voted for you and it's a betrayal of sorts. And Jim, I understand where you're going. you're going into a meeting with

with the state and uh my guess is that this is a negotiation [clears throat] to come to an agreement for Winthre which I'm a little concerned about because 3A is not is not just a couple districts. It's a giving up of our rights to control our town, which you have expressed eloquently in the past. So, we're in total agreement on that.

And I I think you cast away an arrow in your quiver in going into these negotiations. Uh because the more you have the town behind you and the more more ammunition you have, the better you are. And I'm concerned about what will come out of that because I think it leads to actually surrendering to 3A. So I wish you well in your discussion, but I'm also concerned about giving up our control over our time. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] I have a [clears throat] a different topic of course you're in

precinct 3 and your beloved tree warden. Yes. I have

recently attended the Massachusetts Tree Wardens and Foresters annual convention. It was a room with 500 people in it, all of them wearing boots and jeans and plaid shirts. And it was amazing that the plaids were all different. No two were identical. [laughter] But the the bad news is uh that Massachusetts and Winthrop is infect infected with the um [clears throat] emerald ashbora. The emerald ashbora is this tiny very pretty evil insect that is killing all the ash trees and all the ash trees in winup if they're not dead now will be within months. Uh that's hundreds of trees that we're going to have to replace. Uh yeah, we know that uh money doesn't grow on trees. Uh a good thing is uh a citizens group uh has started a GoFundMe uh uh page uh and is up to um 1,800, right? 1800. Uh uh and uh that that will help uh somewhat. Uh it doesn't make up for uh other losses. Uh, I have my my hat in in my hand. [laughter] Uh, so we can use uh funds. Uh, checks can be sent to the DPW. Uh, uh, Steve Ker will take good care of them. Uh, uh, Tony would write you a, uh, a note, uh, so you can get a tax deduction. Uh, money, uh, grows trees. Spread the word.

Thank you. [applause] How much do you need? Thank you all. Just one more thing. I was going to say the town manager town. It was discussed earlier this evening on the the gates uh the flood gates in um me and Tony had a a heated discussion on Sunday. We were both uh pretty upset about the fact that we're not told about it. We weren't u we weren't asked about it the night before when they decided what they were going to do.

It wasn't necessary. And on top of the whole thing, we we agreed it wasn't necessary in the weekend to begin with. So, uh, we will definitely be having some input now. We have discussions. Um, we need to be asked about this. We have two ways in and out of our town. They could at least give us the courtesy of letting us know what their plans are. Um, I don't I have an idea as to why it was closed. Um, but we will be looking into that. We did not know about it. Uh Tony did finally talked to someone at the DS DCR. They did inform him that it would probably be an hour an hour and a half after high tide which it ended up being which again. [cough] Um we heard your comments but we did discuss this prior also. Um I'll ask for we do have some uh openings again one more meeting uh if you have an interest in precinct 6 for a letter of interest uh there is still [snorts] a opening on board of license and board of appeals um and I'm sure after these meetings everybody's just dying to volunteer motion to adjourn by vice president any discussion all those in favor say I