City Council - Regular Meeting

I don't think we do the other ones, but there might be. Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

Would you please join the City Council and me in a moment of silence.

Thank you so much. Would you please join the City Council and me in a pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisibly, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you very much. Our Sergeant at Arms tonight is Lieutenant Langdon. And our Fire Marshal is Pete Dunn. Before we get into the City Manager's report tonight, I promise we have a very special group of individuals with us tonight. You might recall that on July 4th, out at the Dash Stadium, we recognized a number of Centurions from our community here. Those are 100 years or older. And instead, we wanted to actually bring them or ask them to come down to City Hall tonight so we could recognize them in person as part of us celebrating our 250th anniversary as a country. I couldn't think of a better way to do that than to recognize those individuals who have been a special part of our city. So we do have a number of folks here tonight. I'm going to call your names. If you would, just raise your hand and wave at us there. And we're going to give you a little gift there, I think. We're going to give you a gift. Okay, so our first one is Ben Meeks Briggs. Mr. Briggs, thank you for being with us. Mr. Briggs won't mind me saying he's 104 years old.

Thank you.

Elizabeth Linsky. There she is right there.

Althea McEntire.

There she is right there.

Annie Smith. And Lena Wardlow. We are just delighted to have you with us today, and we're delighted that you've been a part of our community for all your lives. We do want to unfortunately acknowledge that since the July 4th event, we have lost two of our sisters. One is Robert Lindsey Greer. One of our original firefighters, one of the eight original American firefighters. And then, lately, Glenn. I believe he helped the members of their family . Three are . What a great legacy for our community. We're glad to have you tonight. We're going to move on with our meeting now, but feel free to stay as long as you like, and feel free to go anytime you like as well.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for your service. Thank you.

they would live their lives almost as long as the city. All right, well, thank you, everyone.

Let's resume the meeting. Let me call on the city manager, Pete, if you're ready for your...

So, yard waste carts are continuing to be serviced until the replacement stickers are received. So, if you're having a problem with your red sticker staying on, there is another one coming in that we're, I've asked them to be a little bit more intentional with the adhesive that they put on those this time. Just before our next meeting also, I want to remind the council and the public that our WSDA, WSDA Transit Authority, will be implementing the largest service redesign in number of years from August the 30th. The transition from primarily 60-minute headway service to primarily 30-minute headway service provided a frequent and convenient transit option for the riders. Staff conducted extensive duty outreach and public education until shape and communicating service changes, and there will be more information that can be found on our wstransit.com website about those We've let council know in public that we're also starting our annual City of Winston-Salem University program this Thursday, August the 20th, which will run through November 2nd. Council members are welcome to attend these sessions. We're excited to have a group of community residents that really want to learn more about the city, the city government, and what is offered in our community. So we're excited to welcome them starting this Thursday. Walking Trail, located on Carver School Road, began in April and is now about 99% complete. Approvals included boardwalk, pedestrian trail, fitness equipment, day structures, benches, trash dumps, and landscaping. Completion is expected around the end of September, and the public will grant an available plan as we get closer to vaccination. I want to take a couple of recognitions to recognize City Manager Boyden, who recently pleaded the public executive leadership account in Compello to the UC School of Government. The program develops advanced leadership, collaboration, and organizational management skills for local government executives. So congratulations to you for that. And I'm going to actually turn it over to her right now.

Yeah, thank you. So, we recently formed a new general services department, which is comprised of property and facility management, vegetation management, sustainability, and our system warehouse. And we just hired Kirby from Sand.

So, he just started two weeks ago.

As the director over in that department, he has been more than dedicated in the local government leadership within the county of Riverside County since 2012, and helped several residents of the local commission, freedom officers, deputy tax collector, He earned his bachelor's degree in criminal justice and sociology from Appalachian State, and then has a master's in public administration from UMBC. So, I'm excited for him. He is, as you all know, approaching on a lot of state's work, and he will be pursuing a full-time position at the University of Appalachia.

And it is a lot of money, but that's gonna be Thank you. Thank you.

and for the use of information on the player's game, you can go to the site of the club, or the site of the club.com, like I said, it's the first person to join that event. The neighborhood services department will have a training and cutting ceremony for the first three departments on the first of August 25th, and then at 11.30 a.m. and 6.35 a.m. national time for the first three. The development office And of course, it's important for us to expand the housing opportunities in the community.

The housing opportunities, there's also a lot of them. There's a lot of new housing out there. And a lot of the housing support from the council is making a lot of projects affordable and how much it's worth. And that's important.

The human relationship part of the project is in common with it.

August 26th from 9 30 to 11 30 at the Old Town Neighborhood Center at 4550 Chavelon Drive. Residents are invited to meet with city staff and community partners to learn about city services, ask questions, share ideas, and discuss issues affecting their neighborhoods. Complimentary coffee and refreshments will be provided. And then at our committees last week, particularly in the Public Works Committee last week, we highlighted the outstanding work across multiple city departments that took place to resolve the major quarter money break that occurred at the end of July. I'd be remiss if I didn't take a moment at this public forum to acknowledge the extraordinary round-the-clock effort of our employees, many of which were also feeling the impact at their homes of this water outage, or water main break. It was an example of our one-team approach to city government in action. I'm proud of the professionalism, commitment, and collaboration of all these individuals, working not only with one another, but with the county and the community as a whole, including the many organizations and individuals who stepped up to help those who needed it during this time. I know Council has hard expressed your appreciation for their work on that and joining me in a sincere and appreciative thank you to the public for its patience and for all those who played a hand in taking So again, I know you had some of them, some of them were given much-needed break right now from the work that they had been doing. And then just finally, I wanted to acknowledge the International Light Theater Festival that was in full swing, actually, full swing when this water main break occurred. But the city worked with the festival organizers, hotels, and host sites to minimize the impact on the tens of thousands of guests that were in town for one of our community's signature events. The spirit and enthusiasm of the attendees and participants was powerful, and the festival was a true celebration of the arts, black culture, and the power of community to bring people together. The Spiney Festival featured more than 120 performances by 30 professional black theater companies. Many of the performances were sold out, I think most of them. Organizers estimate that the week-long event generated economic impact of $20 million for the city, positive impact on hotels, restaurants, retailers, trans-face survivors, and other local businesses. They do always, the North Carolina Black Rep always does a fantastic job putting this festival together, and I felt like we needed to recognize them for that work, since it happens a lot when we're meeting together. So with that, I'll stand right here.

Questions?

We do have two honoraries.

We have item H-1. Item H-1. Resolution recognizing National Emergency Management Awareness Month. Whereas emergencies and disasters including natural, man-made, and technological occur unexpectedly, posing significant threats to life, property, and environment. And whereas the Winston-Salem-Forsyth County Office of Emergency Management The City of Winston-Salem, emergency managers across all sectors, community leaders, the North Carolina Division of Emergency Management, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency dedicate countless hours to developing preparedness, response, recovery, and mitigation programs to protect the lives and property of all persons living in the United States and U.S. territories. And whereas emergency managers across the United States and U.S. territories are charged with establishing and maintaining the capabilities necessary to effectively direct, coordinate, and support emergency and disaster response and recovery efforts. And whereas the efforts of our nation's emergency managers have helped millions of community members across the United States recover, rebuild, and become more resilient in the face of adversity. Now therefore, be it resolved, the Mayor and City Council of the City of Winston-Salem hereby recognize the month of August as National Emergency Management Awareness Month in the City of Winston-Salem in conjunction with National Awareness Month in September. With the support of the North Carolina Division of Emergency Management, the International Association of Emergency Managers, and the National Emergency Management Association, all U.S. communities are urged to express their sincere appreciation for emergency managers in every sector who work to diligently prepare, protect, and serve our cities, counties, states, tribes, territories, regions, and organizations against all hazards and risks.

Is there a motion? Motion by Mayor Prochazin. Second by Councilor Raul. All those opposed, say aye. Aye. Opposed, that's unanimous.

I ask the chairmen of the Public Safety Committee to present this to our Director of Emergency Management, Mr. August Berger.

Sabrina, on behalf of our city, we thank you for all of your excellent work that you do in your department. We are an excellent city because of your diligence, your commitment, and all of the time your staff gives when we have these emergencies. We thank you, we appreciate you, and we honor September.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and members of the council for the proclamation. Very briefly, the Office of Emergency Management. We plan to coordinate our community response to disasters and large-scale emergencies. These include natural, man-made, and technological disasters. We do this by partnering with our local, city, county, regional, state, federal, private, and nonprofit non-governmental organizations. Our office is a very small team of five individuals, that includes myself, and we're typically working behind the scenes as a public eye. So I think the proclamation is an excellent way to bring out what our team does and what our mission is. And with that, I just want to accept the proclamation and have, for my team, recognition and a lot of work. Thank you very much.

I'll tell you over at the ESC, during the water main, nice and smooth, full house of work. Certainly.

I will stand by the State Department's order. We are to work together. Thank you, sir.

We have item H2.

Item H2, resolution honoring the 2026 Winston-Salem Police Department Citizens Police Academy graduates. Whereas 12 citizens have successfully completed the Winston-Salem Police Department Citizens Police Academy, Shannon Dula, Antoinette Conrad, Montego Davidson, Lacey Dickens, Jocelyn Grace, Letitia Harrison, Brooks Jewett, Judith Renteria Marin, Shantayne Reynolds, Amy Sainz, and Aniccio Lane Slade. And whereas, the course is intended to provide residents with a deeper understanding of the inner workings and complexities of law enforcement in the Winston-Salem Police Department. And whereas the 2026 Citizens Police Academy has included more than 30 hours of interactive instruction across 13 weeks, giving participants a behind-the-scenes look at the Winston-Salem Police Department. And whereas the coursework covers city governance, police structure, and community engagement, investigation, field operation, and constitutional law, and much more. Whereas participants experience specialized units such as SWAT, K-9, forensics, and the real-time crime center, and have completed a ride-along or sit-along with patrol or communications, And whereas their dedication has resulted in a better understanding and appreciation of city government and law enforcement, and their participation has given them the resources to serve their community and the world better. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Mayor and the Winston-Salem City Council hereby approve honoring the 2026 Winston-Salem PD Citizens Police Academy graduates, and wish them much success with their future as community leaders.

Motion to second. Motion to second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. I want to position as unanimous, to present this to the candidate, Pete Allen. Thank you. Kenzie, thank you for helping to make all this happen here. And Chief Penn has joined us here. How are you? So we're delighted to have this program in our city and our public safety chair and member of the class is here as well. So I'll present this to you and invite you to make a comment you would like.

Good evening, Mayor Pro Tem, member of the council. Thank you for this recognition and for the Citizens Police Academy. And I also wanted to take this opportunity to extend my gratitude to them. Although it is very clear to me that everyone knows how to do our job, when, where, and how to do it, It's especially, I want to especially thank them, this committed group for the 13 Thursdays that they spent learning all about the police department. They took ownership of their police department and they learned a lot. I will tell you that as much as they learned during those 13 weeks, we learned just as much from them. And I'm going to warn them like I did at the beginning of the class. They carry all this knowledge with them. However, if every time they're watching cop movies with their family members, they say they can't do that or they can't do that, no one will want to watch TV with them. So please refrain from that. But thank you.

I will add that we have the fall version of Citizens Please Carry coming up on August 27. Thank you all so much.

We now go to our regular agenda. Our agenda is comprised of two parts, the consent agenda and the general agenda. It's always the practice of our council to take the consent agenda as the first order of business. Items on this agenda have been unanimously recommended by a committee of the city council or are being submitted in accordance with established city procedure. There'll be no discussion of the items on this agenda unless a council member so requests that an item be removed from the consent agenda and considered individually. Items not removed will be enacted upon motion. Council Member Hall has asked for Item C-7. Any other items, Council Member? Seeing none, is there a motion?

I move for approval of the consent agenda.

Second. Second by Council Member Clark. Is this electronic? This will be electronic vote. Please indicate by voting yes. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? And that's unanimous. May I have Item C-7, please?

Item C7 resolution establishing a new date for Windfield Forward LLC to complete construction of the residences at Indiana to provide affordable housing located in the north ward.

I can do my remark, which is very general. I'll just be presenting what I did on last Monday, if that's okay with you. What I wanted to do was make sure that I reiterated what I mentioned at the Housing and General Government meeting on last Monday. That was just that the representatives from Winfield Forward to follow up with Mayor Pro Tem Adams, who is the representative for this ward, to be sure that they are able to follow up with the residents who are across the street in Stonewall Community. I know that they did make that promise during that meeting on last Monday. I just want to make sure that that is stated on record so they do follow up and make sure that they have that meeting with Council Member Adams as well as the residents that are nearby for the update with the site plans and also with the new date for completed construction. Thank you, Mayor Jones.

Ready for a motion, Council Member?

I am, and with that, I move to approve item C-7. Second.

Second by Mayor Kim Adams. Any discussion? If not, all those in favor of this motion, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, no. And that's unanimous. Thank you. We'll now go to the general agenda, which includes public hearings on alleyway closure, flood insurance compliance, text amendment, seven zoning petitions, and an elected body special use permit petition. When public hearings are called, persons in the council chamber will be given an opportunity to speak. If there is opposition to a public hearing item from opponents, our opponents will each be given 15 minutes for presentation and three minutes for rebuttal. If no one wishes to speak, I'll close the public hearing and the city council will consider the item. May we have item G1, please.

Item G-1, public hearing and consideration of a petition to close and abandon a 1.25-acre unnamed alleyway between Allen Street and Wilbur Street, located in the Southeast Ward.

Thank you. Is there anyone in Council Chair Berger who wishes to be heard on this item? Seeing no one, I declare the public hearing closed and recognize the Chairman of the Public Works Committee, Council Member Berger. I move for approval of item G1. Second.

Motion second by Councilman Taylor.

Go ahead and say it again.

I move for approval of item G1. Second.

Second by Councilman Taylor. Any discussion of this item? Not all those in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. And that is unanimous. Thank you, Councilman Burke.

Item G2, public hearing and consideration of UDO CC 36, National Flood Insurance Program compliance text amendment.

Again, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the council chamber who wishes to be heard on this proposed amendment to the National Flood Insurance Program compliance text? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed. I recognize Mayor Pro Temo.

Thank you, Mayor. I move for approval of one, the Statement of Consistency. For the approval of this item and two, UDO CC36. Second.

Second.

Second by Council Member Clark. Any discussion, questions?

Not all those in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. And that is unanimous, thank you. Item G3.

Item G3, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Yonkey Kim, W3687 from RS9 and RM18 to RS7. Property is located east of the Andrews Drive and Waybash Boulevard intersection, located in the north ward.

Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this resolution? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and recognize Mayor Procurement Adams.

I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item, and two, W3687. Second.

Second. Second by Councilmember Taylor. Any discussion, questions?

If not, I'll approve the motion. Please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. And that is unanimous. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Item G4.

Item G4, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Louis David Vargas, W3688, from RS9 to GBL, properties located on the west side of Home Road, north of Indiana Avenue, containing approximately .36 acres, located in the north ward.

Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this proposed rezoning? seeing no one i'll declare the public hearing closed and again recognize i'm working you are getting a little activated i'm going for approval of one the statement of consistency for the approval of this item and two w3688 is there a second second second by councilmember clark any discussion questions on this item if not all those in favor please indicate by voting yes anyone opposed Thank you. Item G5.

Item G5, motion to excuse Councilmember Taylor from voting on item G6. Thank you.

Is there a motion to excuse Councilmember Taylor?

I move that Councilmember Taylor be excused from voting on item G6.

Second by Councilmember Hall. Any discussion? All those in favor of the item, please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. And that is unanimous. and we will have item G6.

Item G6, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Goldwater Holding LLC doing business as equal properties W3689 from RM8S and LIL to LIL. Properties located at the southeast intersection of South Main Street and Arnold Avenue containing approximately .81 acres located in the southeast ward.

Thank you. Is there anyone in the Council Chairman who's opposed to this resolution? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed. And since Council Member Taylor is excused, I believe Council Member Joyner is going to make a motion.

Thank you, Mayor. I move for approval of the Statement of Consistency for the approval of this item and W-3689. Second.

Second by Mayor Procham Adams. Questions on this item? Not all those in favor of the motion please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. That is unanimous with Council Member Taylor being excused from voting on it. Item G7.

item g7 public hearing and consideration of the zoning petition of hhs holdings llc w3690 from lbs to gbs properties located along the southeast side of south stratford road and at the terminus of ashwood drive containing approximately 2.38 acres located in the southwest ward thank you is there anyone in the council chairman was opposed to this result

Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and recognize Council Member Andre Bowen for a motion.

Mr. Mayor, I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item and two, W-3690. Second.

Second by Council Member Supio. Any discussion, questions? None. All those in favor of the motion, please indicate by vote. and that is unanimous, thank you. Item G8.

Item G8, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Allred Investment Company, LLC, W3692, from GI and CPO to GBL, properties located on the north side of East Haynes Mill Road, across from Brasfield Drive, containing approximately 4.45 acres, located in the northeast ward.

Thank you. Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this resolution? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and recognize Council Member Burke for a motion.

Thank you, Mayor. I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item and 2W-3692. Second.

Second by Mayor Pro Tem Adams. Any discussion, questions on this item? If not, all those in favor please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. And that is approved unanimously. Item G9.

Item G9, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Alma Amada W3693 from RS9 to NOL properties located on the south side of Country Club Road between South Cliffdale Drive and Harper Street, containing approximately .33 acres, located in the southwest ward.

I understand there is opposition to this item, so we will have a public hearing for the proponents here to make comments. Mr. Murphy's going to tee it up for us.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Protip, Members of Council. This request is to rezone 0.33 acres of property located on the south side of Country Club Road between South Cliffdale Drive and Harbor Street, again located in the Southwest Ward, from RS-9 to NOL neighborhood office, limited use. This is a map of the 420-45 growth management area plan map showing the property located in GMA 3 suburban neighborhoods. It is located just on the south side of Country Club Road, just to the west of Siles Creek Parkway. Siles Creek Parkway in that area does serve as the dividing line between GMAs 2 and 3, but this is located within the suburban neighborhoods growth management. This is a subject property highlighted in yellow, again shown on the south side of Country Club Road. You see it is located just slightly west of a large office zoning across the road from an RM5S townhome project. It is located in between Harper and Cliffdale, and it is located close to the on and off ramps of Silas Creek Parkway. This would be an adaptive reuse. And again, you do see the development pattern in the area. Some intense single family and multifamily to the north. You have traditional older homes on that south side of Country Club Road. And again, you do see the office development there to the east along Silas Creek Parkway. And you see to the west the beginnings of the commercial area there to the west the gordon manor area this is the subject property shown on the west suburban area plan update which was updated in 2018 it does recognize the existing single-family residential use of the property and recommends for this property to be developed as single-family residential also in the area plan It does talk about the neighborhood office zoning can be an acceptable transition use, and it can be an accepted alternative to single family residential, especially along urban corridors such as Country Club Road. So again, it doesn't meet the specific recommendation of the area plan, but there is some flexibility there for adaptive reuse of existing structures. This is just some slight images. This is looking east along Country Club Road. The subject property is to the right. You see the zoning sign there. On the other side of Country Club, you see some of those townhomes that were built about 8 to 10 years ago. You do, in the background over there, see the southbound off-ramp from Silas Creek Parkway onto Country Club. This is looking west on Long Country Club Road. The subject property is to the left. Again, the zoning sign in the image. apartments, the townhomes across Country Club. Again, there's a wall, there's vegetative screen, but there is more intense zoning on that side of the road. This is looking south from Country Club Road at the subject property. This is the house in question. This is looking west from the subject property at an adjacent vacant parcel there along Country Club. This is looking east from the subject property at another adjacent vacant parcel. Again, this is looking to work directly across at the backs of the town homes across Country Club Road. And looking at the project and provide an analysis, while the West Suburban Area Plan update recommends this property for low density single family development, the NO district is intended to accommodate home office conversions at the edges of existing residential neighborhoods. Proposed request is compatible with the residential development pattern of the area and would accommodate reuse of that existing single-family home on the site. Proposal is also consistent with Forward 2045 recommendations to create compatible transitions between different land uses. This was heard by the planning board at their meeting in July. There was one speaker in opposition primarily concerned with additional business development along the Country Club Road corridor, I believe specifically related to traffic concerns. following the public hearing the planning board did vote unanimously to recommend approval of this request to council and with that i stand ready to answer any questions

Thank you, Mr. Murphy. So what are the limitations of moving from what it is currently to the NOL? What are the major limitations? Because we spoke earlier that there are things they just can't do, that they can do. Could you explain that a little bit in detail, as much as you can?

Yeah, under this request, they are specifically asking for a limited number of uses. They're asking for an office use, asking for a couple different kinds of adult daycare uses. They're asking for a couple different kinds of child daycare uses, and they're asking to keep the existing single-family home as a potential use. So it can only be one of those four things, an office, a residence, daycare center, or adult daycare. provider or a combination thereof. Of course, if they keep the existing home, they would have to make sure it meets non-residential code if they're going to have it as any type of occupancy other than single family. There are no conditions of approval related to this. As far as keeping the home, we don't really have anything that would kind of, if you remove it and you violated the zoning condition, there's not really a remedy to put the house back if you tear it down. given the limited nature of the uses that are being requested i don't think it's likely that the house is to be torn down and rebuilt for something else perhaps the petitioner could speak to that but again it wouldn't be bonding but very limited frame of uses that are being requested here

I know that one of the concerns of the people who are opposed to this is around the traffic. Is there a limitation of how many cars can go into this proposed zoning?

Not as part of this because there's no site-specific development plan. The uses that are here, I mean, obviously a child daycare center would be somewhat limiting by the square footage of the structure. An office, you know, again, generally speaking, an office this size wouldn't generate a lot of traffic, but there wouldn't be any guarantees or assurances related to traffic because it's a limited use request. I can speak to the fact that the... existing traffic count in that area on Country Club is at 15,500 and the capacity before you tip over into level of service D is 15,800. So it is a heavily congested road.

Thank you. We now will have our public hearing. Is the proponent here? The proponent. Yes. Okay. We'll get right to you. Anyone to speak for the proponent? Okay. Yes, would you please come forward and just give your name and address for the record, please.

Hello, my name is Alma Mata, and I'm representing the House 36 OC Country Club Row. And I don't know how to start, but we are... having concerns about the traffic. Usually we try to use the house for home office. The main point is, well, I don't know how to say it, but is somebody really interested to use the house for home office is a lawyer. I guess it's not gonna be heavy traffic if it is a problem, but I don't know what to say.

Thank you. All right, anyone else for the proponents? All right, now I'd ask for the opponents. Yes, ma'am. You can state your name and address for the record as well.

Hi, I'm Valerie Martin. My address is 417 South Clifdale, and I am also speaking today on behalf of the Sheffield Garden Association, Sheffield Garden, sorry, There's a Sheffield Garden Club that I'm a part of as well as the Sheffield neighborhood and that association. And I have a list of names of people that I've spoken with. So as a lifelong resident of this neighborhood, I am also very happy that you but what time of day, because it showed no traffic at all. And the office building that is built there was heavily contested by the entire neighborhood at that time. It was during the 90s. There was a tie 3-3 vote, and our previous mayor, Corpening, was the tiebreaker of it. And there used to be a surveying company that was down the street. They actually wrote a report that talked about how damaging that office building was going to be to our neighborhood because of water runoff, which is a problem that we, our neighborhood is downhill from Country Club, so we constantly have a problem with the runoff. I do know that the state just passed a law about the parking, so that's great that the But I will have to say that the neighborhood survey with the 500 radius, and I find that very not substantial to get a good opinion about what the people in that area will be impacted by this development. I understand and appreciate my council person asking me directly about the furthering of like what that, you know, limitations are on that building, and just my concern is, yes, today it might just be an office for one lawyer, but who's to say that they don't tear it down, and then, like you said, there's nothing really to do about that, and then the next thing you know, it's like a bait shop or whatever, because that is a high density, I understand, Identity area stops right there, so we're right on the border. Maps also do not show that it is the entrance for southbound Silas Creek and the off-ramp for Silas Creek on Harper Street. There's two streets there. The Harper Street does not have a direct, the intersections do not meet up. So it's an offset intersection, and that's where the light is. All the residents that live in that neighborhood cannot leave the neighborhood except for through that light. There's no turn signal at that light. We already discussed about how much the traffic is. It's almost at max at that area. The other street that comes down that borders that house is on Clisdale Drive, which is my street, and I cannot leave my neighborhood going on Clisdale. So, backed up there. There's, you know, one lane that goes east on Country Club Road, one lane that goes west on Country Club Road. There's a turning lane in the middle, and that turning lane is often backed up between Harper Street and the Bell Street exits, all the way down past Cookdale Drive. So, you cannot exit Cookdale Drive going either way because there's a turning lane there that is packed. Also, if I wanted to go across Country Club Road straight to Cliffdale, the other north side of Cliffdale, there is no way to do that to get through the traffic that's there. Again, I totally understand that somebody wants to put an office there. I think that there's a flood of office space throughout the city that you could find to pursue that. We are talking about that we need housing for people to live in, so I think that it's I'm not familiar with the terms, but it's right at the border of where you're going to stop the density of business on Country Club Road going forward on the, you know, going into like across Silas Creek. I apologize because I wasn't at the previous meetings, but I have called every day. As soon as the sign went up, I called. I've tried to be as civically engaged as possible. I went around and surveyed my neighbors as much as possible about the traffic and about the situation, but I find that it's just excessive to make this decision in favor of that. Thank you for your time. Appreciate you listening.

Thank you very much. Anyone else for the opposition? Yes, sir.

I'm Bob Dennis. I live in Cliffmore across the street. At the time of this planning board hearing, I was actually living in Ardmore. So my first knowledge of this was the letter I got saying I live within 500 feet and there'd be a hearing tonight. I talked to planning about this and my concern is, is not what we're being told is going to be there. But in answer to my question, yes, the house can be torn down and an office built and that office can be 40 feet high. So my concern is not necessarily what is being proposed, but the potential of what this is

can happen thank you thank you sir anyone else for the opposition i see no one the proponents you could have three minutes for any rebuttal you'd like to present

I forgot to mention something a little bit ago. I know there are some concerns about traffic, but one of the things that made me think about it, I just received a letter maybe two weeks ago about they're gonna tear the bridge down, the one they are concerning about it. And for that, maybe, I don't know if they're gonna do remodels for the bridge. They're gonna be, make the bridge more, I mean, do something to remodel to do the traffic more easy. Thank you, thank you, and thank you so much for your help Thank you, my daughter is 36 all six country club row Thank you Are anyone else on rebuttal?

Okay, thank you. The opposition would have three minutes for rebuttal if you'd like to add anything else. I Okay, you're good. Okay. All right, thank you. I'll declare the public hearing closed, and Mr. Murphy's already given basically the report of the Planning Board. I'd recognize Council Member Andre.

Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind, I'd like a couple more questions, if you don't mind, for Mr. Murphy. Yes. Thank you, sir. Mr. Murphy, there was a couple of things I would like to just kind of make sure that we're clear on. If this rezoning goes through, there's a possibility of allowing this to be a house with a business attached to it, is that correct?

Let me make sure I understand what you're asking. Could it be used jointly as a residence and an office?

Yes. Okay. And from the conversation that I've had with the person who's making that proposal, that is what is being proposed. And then there was a question about if this goes through building one day, turning it into a larger office space, if this does go through, if there was proposed, if they wanted to make it a larger office space, it would have to come back to be rezoned. Is that correct?

Incorrect okay, please can you spend it's a as long as they are not changing the uses in other words if this were to get approved tonight they've asked for offices adult daycare home adult daycare center childcare home drop in single family residential as long as it's one of those uses. There's nothing that requires that building to stay there. So if this were approved tonight and they move in there and they have an office for several years and then decide, hey, you know, I think we could do a bigger office. And they tear the building down and build a two, three story office. Assuming it could fit on a lot with the setbacks. They could do that, and it would not have to come back before this board because it's a limited use request, not a special use request that ties it to a site plan, a specific development approval. That's not what this does. This is limited use, so you're just looking at the uses.

Okay.

Thank you. Tommy? Okay. Did I get the right one? I guess I'll go ahead. I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item, and two, W-3693. Thank you.

Is there a second? Second. Second by Council Member Scipio, Council Member Clark, and then Council Member Joyner.

I am a councilman across the street. I don't have any trouble if someone wanted to use the House as an office, but if it was me, I would have put restrictions on what you could do. This is a third of an acre. I don't know how big an office building you could put in. Raleigh just did away with all the parking requirements. So, since there are not any restrictions, you could tear it down and put up a larger office building. I will have to vote no. Council Member Joyner.

Thank you, Mayor. I really feel that in most cases, someone should be able to do what they want to do with their property. But in a residential neighborhood, And as the woman said, we are strapped for spaces to put housing. And under the original idea of a plan for this property, it would be great. because it could be a resident and an office, but that's no guarantee five years, five months, or 50 years. But the thing that we know five months, five years, or 50 is that we need housing. So for that, as much as I believe entrepreneurship is a stronghold and something that needs to be, I would have to vote no for this.

Thank you very much This we do have a motion to approve the rezoning all those in favor of the rezoning. Please vote. Yes anyone opposed vote no And the motion passes five to three five in favor of three opposed Thank You All right item g10

Item G10, public hearing and consideration of a zoning petition of Andrea Adams Strickland, W3694, from RS12 to HBL. Properties located on the northeast intersection of University Parkway and Laura Avenue, containing approximately 0.90 acres, located in the northeast ward.

Thank you. Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this rezoning? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and recognize Council Member Burke.

I move for the approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item and 2W-3694. Second.

Second by Mayor Pro Tem Adams. Any discussion, questions? Now that all is in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no. That is unanimous. Thank you, Council Member Burke. Item G11.

Item G11, public hearing and consideration of an elected body special use permit petition of W. Sanders Mosley and Elizabeth Mosley, W3691. Property is located on the west side of Chatham Road, north of Buxton Street, containing approximately 1.93 acres northwestward.

Thank you. As was mentioned, this is a public hearing regarding the petitioner's application for a special use permit for the establishment of an outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use in a G-1 zoning district. The process for approving the issuance of a special use permit is quasi-judicial, which requires speakers for this item to speak under oath. Speakers should also rely only on their own information and not base their remarks on what someone else has said or knows. The applicant or other witnesses have the right to ask questions of each other. All testimony and evidence must relate to the four findings of fact that the council must make. As it relates to this quasi-judicial hearing, council is prohibited from considering opinion testimony from non-expert witnesses, in particular testimony as to how the proposed use would impact the value of neighboring properties. Additionally, council must only consider evidence provided at the hearing Communications with members of the City Council outside of the hearing are prohibited and must be disclosed, if any. The four findings of fact are going to be shown on the screen here in a moment, I think. The process requires that the City Council issue a special permit only when it is able to make an affirmative finding as to each of the four findings. The applicant has the burden of proof as to the second and third findings The opposition has the burden of proof with respect to the first and fourth finding. Anyone who wishes to speak on this item should come forward right now and be sworn in.

Yes, everybody that's. Yeah, yeah. City Clerk left hand on the Bible. Yes.

There we go. We get everybody.

okay all right so do you solemnly swear or affirm that the statements that you are about to make are the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god i do all right thank you very much customers i'd asked at this point if any of you had any ex parte communications on this item and if so would you disclose it customer hall

Thank you, Mayor Joins. I did receive an email on Friday, August the 14th, 2026 at 421 p.m. I am happy to share that email for the record. I did not respond to the email, but I need to disclose it based off of what you just read. I'm happy to read the email in its entirety, City Attorney, if you would like me to, or just to note who the email was from and the date and time spent.

Council Member Hall, if you could just summarize the email and then give it to the clerk for the record, I think that would be sufficient.

Okay. So I did receive an email from a constituent, a resident of the Northwest War, Frank Fry, on Friday, August 14th at 421 p.m. wanting to express his opposition to the outdoor kennel proposal at 740 Chatham Road, and that he knows several property owners on West End Boulevard overlooking the site who also oppose the proposed use.

Okay. As a matter of record, thank you. And you, Council Member Joyner.

Thank you, Mayor. Before council meetings started this evening, I did encounter and speak cordially with one of the residents of that area who is here to oppose it. We did not have a conversation about it. I was told why they were here. I acknowledged that, and we moved on.

Okay. Thank you. Councilman Clark? I go to church with the petitioner, whatever, but he and I have not discussed it.

Thank you, Councilman Clark.

All right, we'll move forward then. Councilman Murphy, you want to, Councilman Murphy, Mr. Murphy. Take a pay cut. See it up for us, please.

Yes, this is a request for a special use permit for 1.93 acres located on the west side of the Chatham Road north of Buxton Street and again located in the Northwest Ward. It's an elected body special use permit for the establishment of the outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use in GI zoning district. And I want to make that distinction because a kennel indoor use is allowed in GI zoning by right. uh but there there's a proposal for an outdoor run as part of the indoor kennel and that's what requires the special use permit so this is not a rezoning it's a special use permit for the establishment of the outdoor kennel with outdoor run as part of the kennel i'm not going to go over the findings again i will get to those at the conclusion again we treat this similar to a rezoning case so we do kind of show you the property in its situation on the growth management area plan map It is located within GMA2 in the urban neighborhoods, just on the fringe of GMA1, but it is located within GMA2, which is urban neighborhoods. This is the subject property highlighted in yellow. Again, you do see it is on the north side of where West End Boulevard kind of traverses the area. It is on the edge of the HO district, but not in the HO district. Chatham Road is a road that kind of transitions from I think Crystal Towers and the substation and then it kind of goes into the traditional industrial area to the north there along northwest boulevard you have the haynes plant there on the right this was an old industrial building its last use that we have recorded as an approved use was as a church probably in the in the 2000s through the early 20 teens i'm not sure if it's been vacant how long it's been vacant but it had been used as a church but again you do see there is a A lot of various zoning classifications in the area, but again, this is zone GI, general industrial. The aerial photo there, again, you see the area primarily residential to the south and southwest. Industrial and redevelopment of previously used industrial areas there to the north on the west side of Chatham Road. Again, you see there is an existing building here. You'll see those in the site photos. This is the subject property shown on the South Central Winston-Salem Area Plan update. It does recognize this, again, as an institutional use because whenever the plan was done, at least probably 11 years ago, this was still being used as a church, even though it was zoned industrial. But again, it is adjacent to an extensive area zoned for light industrial and general industrial. This is looking south along Chatham Road. The subject property is to the right. You do see the special use permit sign posted there along Chatham Road. In the background there, you see the GMAC and the Winston Tower building. You don't really see Crystal Towers from here, but it is just up the hill. This is looking north along Chatham Road. The subject property is to the left. You see the railroad there. About the middle of the image, you see the railroad crossing on Chatham Road. The signage This is behind the building in question. This is the location of the proposed outdoor enclosure. Again, this is an existing building, zoned industrial, allows the use, but this is where the outdoor kennel would take place on the backside of that building, the outdoor enclosure. This is looking south from the outdoor enclosure, looking into the West End neighborhood on top of the hill. So again, there are single-family homes up there that would look down onto the rear of this project and property. This is looking southeast from the back of the paved area. Enclosure would be on the left side of the image. And again, the West End historic district is on top of the hill. And this is just looking at the main parking area there on the south side of that existing industrial building. But that's where the hill is that goes up to the West End. This is a site plan. Again, it's basically, most of it is cleaning the site up and reutilizing the existing facility. There may be a slight expansion of the parking on that south side. I will let the petitioner and folks representing the petitioner speak to that. I can't 100% say whether or not this is all existing parking on that south side or not. You do see some, I believe that's some proposed asphalt, excuse me, concrete walkways. And then you do see the proposed outdoor enclosure labeled there on the back side of that building. It's a 5,100 square foot enclosure along with some fencing and other things specified by the UDO. Again, there are, it does show maintaining the existing vegetation. There is a requirement for a buffer yard in between industrial zoning and residential zoning. So again, they can get credit for existing vegetation and supplement that as they need to. And looking at those findings that were mentioned before the hearing, the first finding is that the use would not materially endanger the public health or safety if located where proposed and developed according to the application and plan as submitted and approved. In response to that, staff says that, yes, this can be found. The subject request would not materially endanger the public health or safety due to relatively low traffic generation. use of an existing building and access points and compliance with operational standards for an indoor kennel with outdoor enclosure use established in section 5.2.41 of the UDO. Further, the presumption is that if the use is permitted in the zoning district, it is not a threat to public health or safety unless proven otherwise. Under two, that the use meets all required conditions and specifications. The finding there is yes, the subject request will meet the minimum requirements of the UDO. And it did go to the planning board who did certify that it does meet those requirements. And that'll be on the last slide. Three that the use will not substantially injure the value of adjoining or abutting property or that the use is deemed a public necessity That is not something that staff has the expertise to testify on So and again, that's one of the findings that is the burden of proof originally lies with the petitioner And I believe they'd have some information that would speak to that So there is no finding from a staff level for that finding And then finally, the fourth finding, that location, character, and character of the use if developed according to the application and plan submitted and approved will be in harmony with the area in which it is to be located and in general conformity before 2045. From a staff perspective, we find that this finding can be met. The request will allow the reuse of an existing vacant building in a GI zoning district and is generally consistent with the industrial character of the surrounding area. The proposed outdoor enclosure is located behind the existing building, includes buffering elements intended to mitigate visual and auditory impacts on nearby residential properties. The request would support the redevelopment of an underutilized industrial site consistent with the general recommendations of Forward 2045. And again, the presumption is that if the use is permitted in the zoning district, it is in harmony with the area unless proven otherwise. As far as the recommendation, I've gone over the four findings. The establishment of an outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use requires the issuance of a special use permit from the elected body, following a site plan review by the planning board for the GI zoning district. The planning board did determine that the site plan meets all UDO requirements on June 11th of 2026. so the next steps are to hold the public hearing which we're doing now and then make a determination regarding those four findings and based on that either issue or deny the special use permit request and with that i'm glad to answer any questions questions mr murphy yeah this is currently zone gi correct could you give some examples of what could be built in a gi zoning Manufacturing A, manufacturing B, manufacturing C. Manufacturing C allows the highest, that's the most intense form of manufacturing. You could have an abattoir, which is essentially like a meat packing plant. You could do all kinds of things under that existing GI zone. And if you'll hold on a second, I'll actually get to the table of permitted uses. I'm not sure if that's enough. As far as the heavy industrial type uses, manufacturing a b c asphalt concrete plant uh... borough site hazardous waste management meatpacking plant mining quarry recycling plant stores and salvage or thank you and i've never heard of that word you use an apple car you know i was not use much anymore water house customer cpn mister murphy uh...

The first requirement said something about the planning board, there was no material endangerment to public health or safety. How did the planning board?

This is staff's analysis.

I know.

The planning board only certifies whether or not it meets UDL requirements. Remember, we can only hold one public hearing, so this is the only place where the public hearing is held.

So giving the staff's how did you look at audible situations with dogs barking?

Again, you're actually making the findings of fact. We're just providing supporting documentation and our recommendation on how we feel like it would meet that. Again, we have noise ordinances. We have things in place that kind of address noise. There's not anything specific related to a kennel indoor except for the fact that they have to get a special use permit from the elected body.

But this is the outdoor kennel.

This is for outdoor runs. It's not an outdoor kennel.

Okay.

So basically there are provisions for an outdoor run that you have to have staff has to be out there with the dogs. It's not just a free for all running around. Now, obviously, you know, again, I'm not sure what the business model is. You can hear from the folks whenever they speak. I mean, If you have 25, 30 dogs, I'm sure you're going to have some barking and some play and those kind of things. But again, it's not like these animals would be left unattended.

That's what I was thinking about. They were going to be left outside, but that's not the case. Thank you. All right.

Thank you. We'll now hear from the proponents. You'd have 15 minutes for your presentation if you'd state your name and address.

Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem and City Council. I'm Brad Friesen. I'm an attorney at Bell Davis in Pitt and I represent Kelsey and Eddie Dolan and Kelsey's non-profit corporation that she formed Stella's Rescue Inc. They have a contract to purchase this property from Mr. Mosley who's also here. I would like to start and Mr. Mayor would it be possible to as a To meet the evidentiary requirements, I would like to question a few questions from Mr. Murphy, and then Ms. Dolan, and then we have Luke Dickey here from Stiml to talk about the site plan, and Rick Brandt, an appraiser. have a good outline I can move through this pretty quickly but I may need more time would be possible to ask for more time if necessary we'd ask you to move as quickly as possible okay thank you Mr. Murphy could I first ask you a couple questions about the zoning and the nature of the site first of all you mentioned that it was previously a warehouse building or had a warehouse use could it again be used without any permit again for warehousing and trucking under its current zoning.

To answer the question, I have to go into a little bit of detail. I can't sit here and testify. I know there was a church in it. I can't testify whether or not the church ever got the proper permits. If the church got the proper permits, there would probably have to be an internal submission to the inspections division to issue a permit if the use had, in fact, changed. But that's not anything that would require any entitlements other than coming to our department to get them.

It wouldn't need to be rezoned. Correct. there are hourly limitations on the use of the outdoor enclosure we're seeking here under the u d o is that correct and those are from eight a m to six p m before i answer in the affirmative i want to look yes that sounds correct That's correct. And while you have the UDO there, it's also a requirement of the UDO that no animals can be left unattended in the outdoor enclosure, correct? That's correct. And animals cannot be housed outdoors there, correct? That's correct. And so, adding an outdoor run for a kennel use would not increase the population of animals that could already be housed there because they can't be housed in the outdoor enclosure, right? Correct. And also, as a matter of requirements under the UDO, the animal waste that may be deposited in the outdoor enclosure has to be managed on a daily basis, correct?

I can't testify to whether that being true that could be within the city code I don't see it in the you do. If you see it in there if you pointed out to me I'll be glad to testify to that fact. I do see it. Correct you are correct it does say with animal waste being managed daily as per applicable sanitation codes and ordinances which again I think refers back to the city code.

thank you sir you mentioned that the residential property adjacent to this site are can't remember your exact words but the staff report notes that they are significantly up uphill from the this property right correct in terms of water runoff we would not have water running from this enclosure appeal to the residential areas that right correct. There was. The staff report on page 5. At the very bottom. in the analysis of conformity to plans and planning issues notes that the existing vegetation steep topography placement of the enclosure area behind the existing building and the volunteer additional plantings will attenuate off-site impacts of the request and that is something that this the planning staff found to be the case is that right that's correct and the mention it's mentioned there that there are volunteered additional plantings. The planning staff asked for three additional deciduous trees to be planted near the outdoor enclosure and the and the applicant has agreed to that right that's correct. And those trees would be between where the outdoor enclosure is and the residential property. On the south side correct on the south side. Mr. Murphy if the outdoor enclosure is being used in violation of the you do let's say with dogs out at 10 o'clock at night.

That is something that the city could enforce correct correct that would be a zoning violation that would be handled by the zoning enforcement staff.

Mister mayor I would like the entire staff report admitted in. As evidence in the applicants case in this permit hearing. The next witness will be Luke Dickey from Stimble.

Mr. Dickey, if you would give your name and address, please.

Good evening. Luke Dickey with Stimble Associates, 601 North Trade Street, Suite 200, 27101. Thank you, Mr. Dickey.

Mr. Murphy, do we have slides?

Thank you very much. Tonight, I'm just going to kind of walk you through the site plan that we prepared, utilizing, of course, the information we get from the Unified Development Ordinance, or the UDO Clear Code, working with planning staff, and we prepare these plans that get submitted for their review. It goes through the interdepartmental review, and then we address those comments, and then that goes, of course, into the planning board for recommendation, and then that comes before you this evening. Up on the screen right here right now is kind of the way that just generally highlighted areas. The building is the main white block that's in the middle. The blue is the enclosure area on the back side. Highlighted in a little bit of a darker green is the three trees that were conditioned as part of that to be planted on the south side of the site. The parking lot then is located that will be expanded to meet the UDO requirements for the size of the kennel. So that gets expanded a little bit more towards the south side of the site. uh we designated the better stands of trees on the side those are in the darker green corners of there for the tree save area that meets the udo requirements of that as well with the expansion of the parking lot there will be a street yard requirement then of course a long chatham road that would be provided to meet the requirements from that standpoint We are showing a dumpster at the end of that parking lot. That means you do requirements being 50 foot set back from any residential zoning plot. And then also we've expanded a little bit of parking there on the north side, but that's up against the GI zoning and there will be a street yard required there as well. On the overall site plan, you can see the slope, the dashed lines that are in between the building and the residence to the south. That is the topography. Each one of those represents a two-foot step from that standpoint. If you can go to the next slide. Oh, just real quick. The enclosure is, there is one permitted per the ordinance, and that's the one we're providing. It has to meet the required building setback requirements, which is 40 feet from any residential zoning. We are 40 feet away from that at the nearest corner. um and then i already mentioned the recommended screening that was a condition for the three uh trees there on the south side next slide please uh this one is just kind of going against talk about the significant elevation that was mentioned in the staff report uh the approximate elevation of the enclosure there you can see is at 860. uh the parking lot is around 856. uh this residences to the south is uh 902 so roughly 42 feet above roughly the enclosure, and also 900. The nearest one is there to the east, and that is at an 874, so it is 14 feet, but that's also where we're gonna have remaining vegetation, and that will be supplemented too from meeting the buffer requirements, so that would be an addition of evergreen shrubs and evergreen plantings to make sure we meet the code requirements in that location. Next slide, please. This is, again, kind of similar to the images that Mr. Murphy had shown earlier. This is where the parking lot is. That will be expanded there to the left, and you can see kind of the slope condition there. So because of the slope condition and where it's tucked in, that'll be not very visible at all from the neighbors in that location. Next slide, please. Then this is just kind of coming up along the side of the building. You can see the topography there. It gets even steeper. It's covered in kudzu at this point. But again, that's just kind of representing basically the 40-foot grade change between the residences to the south and then where the enclosure is. Next slide. This is looking then directly south from the enclosure, so basically at the northwest corner of the building, which would be the furthest location of the enclosure, looking directly south. Next slide. They're highlighted in the screen. The Shadows is the closest residential unit to this enclosure, looking directly to the south. It's kind of covered there. But again, we will plant the trees on that southern side as they grow up. It would be kind of more dense when you're looking down into the site. Then that would start to be covered there from that location. Next slide. And then this is directly directly to the West. So there's again the residents in the shadows in the backside over there. Again, those trees are going to remain in that location. I'm sure we're going to clean up the understory scrub there, but then we all be replanted with make sure we meet the ordinance requirements of the full screen use of the site with the evergreen plantings and the evergreen shrubs there to create a visual break. In addition, of course, the the enclosure will have a five foot opaque fence all the way around it. So anything that's within the enclosure won't be visible from that standpoint. And that concludes my presentation.

Thank you, Mr. Dickey. Anyone else?

Mr. Mayor, our next witness is Kelsey Dolan.

who is one of the folks who has the property under contract to purchase. We've been referring to the word kennel during this application. The intended use for this property is actually for an animal rescue. There's not a separate category for that in our UDO, however. The closest one is kennel, which is why the application is for a kennel enclosure. Kelsey, could you introduce yourself and explain the intended use for this property?

Sure, so I'm Kelsey Dolan. I'm already tearing up a little. It's kind of surreal. I'm super excited. I don't know how many people show up excited about this. But it is for a rescue, and it is all from an animal, a dog that we had named Stella, who was super special. She kind of found me, and she was great. I will say under oath, I think she spoke English, and so we named it for her. She was great, and I think that the biggest part of this is really the location itself is making... that possible making that accessible for everyone you know we very well could have gone somewhere else and built a space and built a enclosure and an outdoor run and outdoor kennels and space for these animals but a big part of this is really wanting to be part of the community part of what is helping you know In the past to a funded this I love ever talking looking this is like taking at me so I'm going to try not to ever speak my great grandfather had a big hand in developing Winston my grandfather after him and I want to repurpose what they did and as a big tribute. to take that and invest it back into what made them successful. And I think that people a lot of times say, you know, well, it would be nice if somebody invested in us, invested in where we live and made it a better place. And that's really what this is about. And the outdoor space is because people and animals both need to be outside. They need sunlight. It would not be a very good rescue. It would not be very responsible of us if we just left animals outside or if we left them in their own space. mess and if they made a mess and if they sink in if they barked that said i completely understand anyone that would have concerns around that because if i thought somebody was going to build outdoor kennels just letting dogs you know hunting dogs anything like that they're going to sit outside and bark and make a mess and stink that that is not a rescue of which people would want to come and adopt animals from um it's also not one where people who might not have the chance to be exposed to cats and dogs can have that time they can go in they can spend time with dogs and cats and volunteer and kind of just bring the community together i think you saw the photos what we intend to do i mean even from the pictures is to clean that space up to take a space that's not being used to not waste the resources to build a totally new one but to use what winston already has and to make it something nice and to make it something that people and animals alike can benefit from and in a time where there's a forty three percent increase in economical surrenders that shelters this is something that the city needs let me ask you oh yeah sorry i'm gonna keep it on are you a current resident of winston salem yes what's your address three two five mendona drive and in twenty twenty five you formed a non-profit corporation for this purpose yes are you are you do you currently have experience in sheltering rescue animals yes can you talk about the the whether there is a public need for more animal shelter space in winston-salem for example do you get calls from people needing to find places for their rescue animals yes um we get hundreds of calls and specifically emails i will say cats are infinitely worse in the moment than dogs i won't give you a timeline but there was a time when animal control and main site are in the same building and we've been very limited on resources since then and one just very quick fact is that cat math is if you have one male and one female cat over the course of one year worst case scenario can create 400 so when you hear cat colonies and you hear things like this it is a much bigger issue that's going to get much bigger over the years we're not asking for resources we are trying to give resources to the city we aren't asking for funding we're trying to fund ourselves to help this out

Council, would five minutes be?

Rick Brandt is here. He's an appraiser with Loftus Companies. He has seven slides to explain his paired sales analysis on the question of whether there's harm to the adjoining properties. We'll try to do it in five minutes. Okay, that'd be great.

Thanks.

Thank you. There's another set of slides for Mr. Brandt. There we go. Could you introduce yourself and explain your qualifications?

My name is Rick Brandt. I'm an appraiser here with Loftus Appraisal Company in Winston-Salem, our office on 160 Kimmel Forest Drive in Winston-Salem. I'm an MAI Appraisal Institute member. I've been appraising here within the city for over 20 years.

Thank you. With respect to the question of whether there would be substantial harm to the value of adjoining or adjacent properties, if an outdoor enclosure were approved by the special use permit, did you do any analysis? I did. I did a paired sales study of comparable homes.

located in close proximity to kennels. The first one was a development called Dorchester in northern David County. If you look up there on the map, you can see the location of No Goats, No Glory Kennel, and the dot is more or less over their outdoor enclosure. That outdoor enclosure is located very close to the subject property. If you go to the next slide. I can give you, it's 160 feet from the subject property to the kennel, to the outdoor enclosure of that kennel. The way you do a paired-stale study is you look for other homes that are highly similar, that are a further distance away, that should not be impacted in any way by the presence of that outdoor kennel. In this case, I found two homes on that same street that were very similar. The first one was 400 feet away. And the way you proceed with a paired sales study is just like when you purchase a home, you make adjustments for all the things that are dissimilar between the two homes to arrive at an adjusted price per square foot. If that adjusted price per square foot were drastically higher than what the subject sold for, that would tell you that there's some impairment with the subject that we did not consider. In this case, that would be the presence of the kennel. In this case, the first comparable came in at $126 per square foot. The subject property sold for $151, indicating that there was no impairment present. If you go to the next slide, that's comparable, too. It was located 800 feet away. And it was a new home. If you look at it, the adjusted price per square foot was $119 per square foot as opposed to the subject which sold for 151. So again, there is no indication that there's any detrimental condition created by the presence of the outdoor dog enclosure. Go to the next slide. This is the second study I conducted. This is in Oak Valley Country Club in Advance. If you look at the top there, Hound Housing Doggy Daycare has an enclosure that's directly adjacent to homes in Oak Valley Country Club. The subject property is located on the other side of the fence from the doggy daycare. If you look to the next slide, there you can see that it's 650 feet from the house to the area of the enclosure. There I looked at two homes also. After adjustments, the first one came in at $163.16, as opposed to the subject at $164.30. So that indicates that it was a very similar indicated price to what it actually sold for, and there's no detrimental condition there. If you go to comparable number two, again, that one was 2,000 feet away. On that one, the only thing I would is that part of the reason the adjusted sales price is so low is that one backed up to the 15th fairway, and we used paired sales to make adjustments for things that have golf views, and that required a much larger adjustment than the other ones. So you notice the gross adjustments are fairly large there. But again, it indicated no detrimental condition at all for the subject.

So after doing that analysis, and you're familiar with the subject site that we have the application sign and understanding how that side is situated based on your analysis of others what your conclusion about whether the proposed outdoor enclosure would substantially harm values of adjoining property I can't find any evidence that it would mr. mayor those are all of our witnesses if it would help the council at the end of the opposition I have I could present a very brief summation addressing the evidence on each of these factors you would like me to proceed now thank you on the factor of whether the outdoor enclosure would not materially endanger the public health or safety if located were proposed and developed according to the application and there's the plan If the plan is submitted in and approved point out that it is already zone general industrial which the staff report points out is the most intense industrial district allowed in the zoning ordinance there are many much more disruptive uses that this property could be put to without any additional permits from the city council. As you heard from mr murphy that use of the outdoor enclosure is limited by your ordinance the city's ordinance. There's no evidence that's been submitted so far that the use of the enclosure would produce noise of any particular level. The ordinance addresses this and limits the hours of operation from eight a.m. To six p.m. And the animals cannot be out in the outdoor enclosure unattended. Also with respect to public health and safety, the UDL requires that the waste be addressed on a daily basis. And the outdoor enclosure would not actually increase the amount of waste being generated here, because no animals can be housed out there. There is a significant elevation difference between the adjoining properties, creating a natural barrier. the apple applicant has agreed to planting additional trees between where the outdoor enclosure area is and the adjacent the residential properties which will also promote health and safety and and harmony as shown on the site plan this the outdoor enclosure will not add impervious surface the staff report notes that is not expected to generate traffic problems And Ms. Dolan testified about the community need for this. You just heard from Rick Brandt on the question of substantial injury to the adjoining properties. And then as for the location and care, whether the location and character of the use, if developed according to the application and plan submitted, would be in harmony with the area and in conformity with the comprehensive plan. By law there's a presumption that if this is available in the you deal with a special use permit it is in harmony with the area also this is a general industrial area there is a joining a general industrial use currently to the north and then across chatham to the east. It's a two acre site we're not trying to squeeze this in on a small home site. There is a natural separation which is noted on the site plan and in the staff report that's created by the significant difference in elevation and the existing vegetation buffer. It will not be visible from the street. The two additional conditions that have been requested and agreed to for this permit are limitation on the size of the sign and also the three additional trees think those both would promote harmony of this additional enclosure with the surrounding area. And then with respect to forward twenty forty five the staff report notes that conformity can be found. I would note that the site plan shows the addition of sidewalks on this site, which would enhance pedestrian access, at least on this particular lot, which is one factor, a goal of the comprehensive plan. It would be putting to use a vacant property that's been long vacant, which also would promote a goal of the comprehensive plan. And I would argue that it will improve the aesthetic appearance of this site. And the comprehensive plan also has as a goal

cleaner and more attractive neighborhoods and so i would urge the council to find that the four factors have been proven thank you thank you very much right excuse me we'll now hear from the opposition if you would come forward and state your name address for the record of a number of individual signed up

tony gaines a little bit uh... one fifty one western boulevard uh... prior to that i looked at one seventy three and one seventy five western excuse me one seventy five and one seventy seven western boulevard all of those properties are right above i am the houses right above their proposed spot noise travels folks there is a huge embankment And I bet y'all will improve the neighborhood tremendously. But noise travels. If there's dogs there, dogs are gonna bark. Rescues bark. I've got a 90-pound pit bull I rescued last year. Prior to that, I had a 80-pound German shepherd I rescued, or they rescued me. But sound travels. And regardless of how many employees you have handling these dogs, it's going to be noisy. So yeah, there will be noise. You can only control, you've been around dogs, you understand. So that's my concern. Yeah, I was really, really opposed to the idea of dogs being there and making all the noise they could make. But yeah, I realized that it could be a whole lot worse. Haines Dye and Finishing, for instance, has ruined my $80,000 beautiful pickup truck with acid rain. But that's part of doing business in Winston-Salem. So my challenge is that if there's anything else that could be done, to buffer the noise because that hill's not gonna stop the noise. I don't know if a noise reducing wall would help, but that's my concern. I've got two duplexes right up on that hill that I rent out. I would hate for my tenants to say we can't live here because of the dog noise. So that's my concern. I was able to pay my property taxes the other day because of my tenants. I don't want that to change. So that's about all I have to say.

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Gayness. All right. Next.

Hello again. I feel like we were just here. Yeah, my name is Chris Kreofsky. I live at 811 North Spring Street. I'm the building, I'm the residence directly behind the Chatham building. The pictures that were shown, I'm going off script here, the pictures that were shown earlier full summer all the greens there during the during the winter season all that greens gone we have a direct shot you know our our yard is the one that backs right up to that lot and I understand Mr. Moseley has been trying to unload this property for a long time and I and I do feel for him and it does sound like the proponents made a great case and I think that does go through I think they're going to do the right thing. That being said, sound travels. As much as I want to support this, this is the second time that I've been here pushing back against a dog kennel. In 2010, Carolina Pet Place wanted the same exact thing, but in the building next door, an indoor kennel with an outdoor dog space during the day. At the time, my daughter and I went to the Clemens location, parked about as far away from the building as where we thought our house was, and we could hear dogs inside very clearly from that distance. We, as a neighborhood, voiced our opposition right here in this room, and the council sided with us, and the planning board denied their proposal. The argument against this kennel is the same as it was against that kennel. The proposed site is surrounded by homes, many like ours, in the historic West End, and part of the ambiance of that neighborhood is the peacefulness we have in living in the shadow of a bustling downtown, but not in it. And a dog kennel is simply not a good fit, even in an area zone for commercial use. We're fine with the white noise hum. I don't get the acid rain, but we do get the white noise hum of the machinery from a Haines Dine finishing plant. And that's fine because it is sort of white noise, but dogs barking is not that. I just feel like it's going to create tremendous noise pollution, not to mention the smell. I think you made a good case that that's not going to be the worst part, but it's just as far as being conducive to residential living in this, you know, peaceful enclave that is the West End. And it's hard to say, you know, I do take a little bit of umbrage on the fact that it didn't show property values dropping in those certain cases, It's hard to put a price on quality of life and it's hard to put the burden on us to prove after the fact that it did in fact drop our house prices because it feels like that kennel is much closer than the ones in the examples. So what I said is, here we go again. We were just here. You guys opposed a nightclub that was proposed at the same place due to the noise it would create. The noise, it goes straight at us, rises up the hill. So whether it's cars, people, music, or dogs barking, And it just feels like there are other industrial sites in Winston that don't back up to residential neighborhoods with families, some with babies and young children, some of the young families up on West End Boulevard, and many of whom, like us, that have dogs will no doubt join in the barking. If there's barking out here, my dog's barking inside or barking out in the backyard. It just feels like it will be relentless at some point. And we spent a lot of time in our backyard year round it just feels like it would be detrimental to our home life so I respectfully ask that you please protect the integrity of this historic neighborhood. As it was in winston so council has done in prior cases and deny this proposal thank you cynthia kelly.

My name is Cynthia Kelly. I own three residential properties in the immediate area of the proposed commercial dog kennel. Two of them directly adjoin the proposed kennel property along the rear property lines, and the third is approximately 300 yards down the hill. Of course, it's the historic neighborhood of West End. I'm not opposed to progress or development. I welcome thought development, thoughtful development. I'm undoubtedly a bigger supporter of small businesses and also animals. She gave a great animal testimony. I'm simply asking that the development occur in a way that is responsible and sustainable for all parties. My noise concern is that we don't know what the noise is going to be, which they've mentioned. That picture showed a lot of kudzu on that hill. Faith Kaufman, who sent you all a letter, sold me two empty lots. And when you look at that kudzu, the reason why there's so much kudzu is because some of that we're about to clear. We've had it surveyed. We've got an engineer coming in. I'm building two residential homes on those properties because we need housing. And part of that engineering includes changing the elevation on that. So some of their argument about elevation will be irrelevant over the next series of months as we start developing those properties. And so those properties too will be looking directly at that building. One of the buildings will be, two of them will be in the historic overlay. One will be on 819 West 7th Street, which will be a triplex. And as you know, the plans for historic overlay are extreme. We want to make sure, and our peers want to make sure, that it aligns with the community and the regulations that have already been set. And so, if the barking, the odor, waste, and I know you all mentioned runoff wasn't going to be a problem. We've all walked outside of an apartment complex or been in a park where you go, gosh, I smell dog. And that's not even a kennel. That's just where people are walking their dogs and they still happen to relieve themselves. So there will definitely be those things. Other North Carolina communities recognize this concern. Wake County specifically identifies noise, odor, insects, and traffic as potential impacts associated with kennels, and they require a setback to be of at least 100 feet, not the 50 feet that you all have been describing. Excuse me. I noticed the housing prices on this sheet We're not 650 feet from the kennel, we're one foot from their property line, so I don't know that that's relevant either, if he doesn't have an example of a property that's right adjacent, and I have to right adjacent to that particular property line. So, I don't believe homeowners should effectively become the monitoring, excuse me, and the enforcement system for commercial operation. better approaches to determine compatibility before the use is established. There should be clear, objective, site-specific evidence regarding this noise, including relevant distance, including relevant elevation, and also naming not only that the dogs will be attended, all dogs that are attended still bark, so the unattended dog part to me is also irrelevant. With that being said, I respectfully ask that you deny or at minimum defer approval until these site-specific issues are independently evaluated and made part of the record.

Thank you. Frank Fry.

Mr mayor mayor pro town council members. My name is frank fry live at 850 chatham road and. Initially i'd like to say to mr. Sanders and his son. Was here last august. And. My concerns have already been stated by Chris, the first speaker, or second, actually, as it turned out. But I just want to give a little background on the West End, the Crystal Tower is part of it, which had a resurgence back around 1973. It was pretty much on the ropes. There were three major houses that were brought in, one from where 500 West 5th Street is now, the old Inagon. Another from where WSJS used to be, on 5th Street as well. And the third was actually on the Inagon lot as well. But tremendous amount of city Involvement in that neighborhood and to bring it around. And it's got many challenges. Always been the primary one. And this this. All the houses up on Weston Boulevard. In a different manner than. houses that have been talked about that are close to other kennels these houses has been stated before 40 feet high overlooking the dog park so or dog kennel run whatever it is opportunity to bark is what it is so these these neighbors are looking down on it which makes it much different than the examples the appraiser used. The attorney asked that the planning staff report be entered in as evidence that this is not a harmful thing. Just looking through the report, and there are several things that I've just been picky. Let's see. Large trees that are going to be planted. Sorry for this. What i'd like to say about chatham road. On the building that we were in now since two thousand one in that time period. Especially. In two thousand one next door to our property the old chatham manufacturing mill. It's now apartments, which are, you know, really nice. So that changed from an underutilized building that the roof was collapsing, and it was pretty much, you know, sort of nip and tuck whether it would survive or not, and now it's contributing member to the neighborhood and to the city. On the noise issue, I looked up dog barks compared to a Harley-Davidson, and they're about equal for a standard Harley-Davidson at idle and a Harley-Davidson accelerating or going at road speed. You can imagine that that's a noise that people could really not be happy with. The 224 cars, I believe, was the estimate the planning staff thought of for this increase. Over the past two and a half years, I've walked that strip of Chatham, passed by this building a thousand times in one direction, a thousand times in another. At eight in the morning, it's beautifully quiet. Sundays, Saturdays, it's quiet. It won't be quiet in the future if this goes through. There are a couple of lots on Chatham. There was a duplex that was torn down and it's now part of the Parks Family Trust. They plan to put another residential building on that. There's an another house just up the street from that it's I think comes up in September to be torn down and a new structure put up. So that there is a a trend in that area towards residential not towards industrial.

And sad to say I didn't get involved in.

The comprehensive plan to last one 2011 I think he said. But The industrial use that is there currently should have had a good look. It's the highest form. Lots of negative things can go in. Sight would prohibit a lot of that. I think the comprehensive plan was a little off. In that same area that I walk with my dog, which goes up through Jackson Park, which I think there's a plan to get rid of the park and make little boutiques or something there. I don't know, but there are about 40 acres of developable land in that area, which is a lot of land, a lot of opportunity for housing. or mixed use or something. That land has been intentionally held for ever since Marshall Street was expanded. So I feel like that area is on the verge of being something better than it is now. And I think this would be a setback. And I thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr. Frye. All right, we now go back to the proponents. You have three minutes or so for any rebuttal you'd like to present.

Well, just with respect to the note in the staff report about traffic, that was looking at a change from a church use to a kennel use. The actual analysis that would be relevant would be the traffic difference between an indoor kennel use and one with an outdoor enclosure because this is already zone as general industrial. Rick brand did present. To parent sales showing properties adjacent to. Kindles that have outdoor enclosures so that what that is directly relevant. and I would ask for his slides and also do dickey slides to be included in the evidence. For this case. The question before the council is a little different than with a rezoning. Special use permit has to be based on. Competent material evidence. Including expert evidence on the question of value and also question of traffic for that matter. to prove the factors and then the question for y'all is whether that evidence has been presented this is not and I'm telling you things you've already known and studied it's a quasi judicial hearing it's not a question of legislative discretion tonight it's a question of judging the evidence before you on the factors in the ordinance that the city has already enacted we've presented competent evidence on each one of those I think this will be a way of improving the neighborhood and performing a service for the community. And I would urge you to please approve the permit. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Yes, sir, if you'd like to add to that. Yes, sir. Absolutely.

My name is Sanders Mosley. I have owned the building since 1994. We had in it a distribution company for medical uniforms. That went out of business. We have since rented to a number of places, of businesses, excuse me. I'm looking at the clock closely. the way it is currently zoned i have had two unsolicited inquiries since i've entered this contract for trucking distribution companies and they can truck into and out of there 24 hours a day with no additional zonings and those tractor trailers wanted to park in the back lot And there is nothing in the zoning, is my understanding, that would prohibit them from doing that. So in my opinion, this is a good neighbor use of my property. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Wesley. All right. Thank you. Would the opposition like to have three minutes of rebuttal? Yes, if you give your name and address for the record, please.

Hi, my name is Sophia Nazareth. I live at 816 West 8th Street, which is in 500 feet of the back lot where they're going to have their outdoor kennel. I have a dog. I'm not anti-animal or anti-rescue at all. But I am a little bit concerned about this changing the amount of noise in the neighborhood. And I don't think that was addressed adequately to me. We all know that amplifiers glide up, noise travels up. One dog barks in our neighborhood, all the dogs start barking in our neighborhood. We have on 8th Street where I am two industrial companies. They both are pretty quiet. So it's not that we do not live with industry. We do. And it gets along fine with us. I think this is different. So I would just recommend that without really understanding how the sound will travel, that We don't want to have to be calling for animal noises every day because dogs are barking. And I do fear that that would be what happens. We have all these dogs barking. It's 15 minutes. After 15 minutes, you can call for a violation of noise. I think that that is possibly what would happen here. All right, thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, ma'am.

Understanding that this is what you are calling a quasi-judicial process and rebuttal to the argument, I'd like to name three things that were irrelevant to his argument. One was the elevation, because the elevation will change within the next 12 months once I get my engineering redrawn. Two, that means that the noise that he's talking about is going to change. And then the third thing, It's going to be the runoff of the water will then also impact the neighboring apartments and also houses that are going to be built in the area.

Thank you. Anyone else for the opposition? All right. Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and would recognize Council Member Hall.

Thank you. Mayor joins.

Thank you for everybody tonight.

Thank you to my colleagues pressing through with this hearing. We heard a lot of concerns tonight from the proponents and the opponents of this special use permit. And I would just like to state that I would hope that if this is approved tonight, that the proponents would as best as possible remember all of the concerns that were lifted tonight, particularly from the opponents as best they can and consider these concerns moving forward with any possible development on the site. And just for clarity, since this is a quasi-judicial act, I am confirming the four findings of fact for granting a special use permit. And Mayor Joins, if I am incorrect, I would like for Director Murphy to say no you're not right if that is the case um four findings of fact um that staff in particular um also went through in their report is um public health and safety that the youth will not materially endanger the public health or safety if located where the proposed and developed um and develop application plan as submitted and approved. I think we do have a slide for that, but I wanna make sure that that is the case. And then also the other finding of fact that we were to be listening for tonight was that this use meets all required conditions and specifications, and that would be in alignment to just essentially ordinance compliance. And then the other thing, the other finding of fact would be that this use as presented will not substantially endure the value of adjoining or abutting property values. So basically we're talking about property values not being endangered. And then the other finding of fact that the location and the character of the proposed use, if it's developed according to the application and the plan that was submitted would be in harmony with the area and then also to be in conformity with the forward 2045.

sorry customer hall i will say that as to find these one two and four that is the fact that is what staff believes that those three findings have been met in regards to um this project staff does not have the technical expertise to address uh finding number three dealing with property values uh that's something that you have to uh and again the whole thing is based on the hearing staff put forward our thoughts on the three findings but you have to make an independent decision related to the property values based on what you heard as far as the testimony was tonight thank you i appreciate that so let that be noted for the record um

And with that and everything that I heard tonight and based off of those findings, I move that based upon the application, the testimony and evidence presented at this public hearing that one, the city council affirmed the four findings as required by section 3.2. 0.13 e 6a of the unified development ordinances and two the city council approved the site plan that is included with this special use permit request along with the conditions included in the special use permit and staff report and three the city council approved w-3676 and issue a special use permit to concrete supply company LLC for establishment of an indoor enclosure for outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use in g1 zoning district yes city it is there a second to that motion what just a moment mayor joins I believe this minute counselor yes sir

Have you finished your total motion? Is there a problem with the motion? Yes, sir. Go ahead.

Yes, sir. I just wanted to correct that. I believe that it's 3691, and I think you said 37 something. I did. I apologize for that. And then there was something related to an LLC, a concrete company. I don't think that's a part of the issue.

it sounds like the sample motion may have been borrowed from the last time we had a special use permit which was for expansion of an asphalt and concrete plant on lowry street the the proper case number is w3691 and this would be for an outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use

Yes. So if you could just amend your motion to correct that for the record.

I will, and thank you, Mayor Joins. I move that based upon the application, testimony, and evidence presented at the public hearing, that one, the City Council affirmed the four findings as required by section three point two point one three e six a of the unified development ordinances and two the city council approved the site plan that is included with this special use permit request along with the conditions included in the special use permit and staff report and three the city council approved w and issue a special use permit for establishment of an outdoor enclosure for a kennel indoor use in a G-1 zoning district.

Very good. Now, is there a second to that motion? Second. Second by customer Clark. Any further discussion, questions by customer Clark?

For the record, I do have two dogs. I do have two indoor kennels with runs, to the best of my knowledge, in the West Ward. One is behind Duke's Restaurant, which is, I think it's an adoption type place. I eat at Duke's periodically. I get my car wash next door to that one regularly. I have never smelled anything, nor have I ever heard a dog bark there. I have another indoor kennel, which does have an outdoor run. further out country club uh kind of near where the driving range is way out there i've never gotten a complaint on it i have two dog runs at meadowlark school i used to take my dogs there a while back i've never gotten a complaint there about barking i have sat on this council for 25 years and i hang probably count on one hand the number of calls i've got on barking dogs uh But that's not why I would like to speak. This property has the most broadest, worst zoning you can imagine. General industrial. You mentioned a cement plant, asphalt plants. We have a hard time getting those cited because they're not good neighbors. You could have a lot of things. And I simply would suggest be careful what you ask for. And I will be supporting the motion.

Very good. Would you have a motion to approve this item? All those in favor, please indicate by voting yes. Anyone opposed, vote no.

My computer's down. I vote no.

motion passes and in favor seven in favor one opposed customer burke voting thank you very much guys from our home all right so now I'll go to the public comment period which is the time that the City Council and I set aside for citizens to voice their opinions on matters that are germane the city government When the comment period is called, each speaker will be given three minutes for presentation, and the total amount of the public comment period will be 30 minutes. Do we have the list of speakers?

Okay.

The first person who signed up is Benjamin Gaither. If you would please state your name and address for the record, Mr. Gaither.

Hello, my name is Benjamin Gaither. My address is 281 Village Creek Circle, Winston-Salem. And I'm a student of Winston-Salem State University. Today was the first day of classes, and I parked my car. I noticed something different this semester. ALPR cameras from flock safety had been added to the entrances and exits, so instead of studying between classes, I chose to write the words that you're hearing now. I'm not here to tell you to remove them. I would work with the university for something like that. No, I am here to tell you what countless Americans and Winston-Salemites have been going through over the past year. Right now, you can go to dfloc.org and see where the AOPRs in our community are. I noticed that many of them were placed in parking lots like Haynes Mall or Home Depot, even some in apartment complexes or KOAs, and I think that's a little bit messed up. I understand that these AOPRs are paid for by private groups and companies, I would not say I'm against the use of cameras to keep parking lots peaceful. What I am against is much narrower and significantly more irking. Being a computer science major, I know a few things about cybersecurity. When you connect a device to the internet, you allow the ability for your device to be hacked by someone else. Fog cameras have no vulnerabilities. Information collected from them can be shared with other police departments across the United States with no requirements for warrants. This semester, when I should be in classes listening to instructors, I will be worried about who's watching me. My peers will worry about their license plates being misread and police officers claiming that they have a stolen vehicle. Most importantly, everyone will wonder what will happen next. Axon is currently developing taser-armed drones that are for active shooters situations in public schools. Will my university decide to implement these measures for our safety? What if FOC decides to track more than just cars in the future, right? Will my university have a choice in that? Who watches the watchers? With a closed circuit television camera system, none of the cameras are open.

Olivia Doyle.

Hello, y'all. Aren't you excited to be going home soon?

Olivia Doyle, 112 West Devonshire Street. So, hate out is here because we still have not been invited. Well, actually, we just got an invitation informally earlier today. But we haven't been invited to present our legal defense of our proposal to stop local cannabis arrests. We are still asking for the meeting that Mayor Pro Tem Adams promised to get our ordinance through the General Government Committee. But while we are waiting for that, we would like to deliver the legal analysis that we have received from civil rights litigator Jayla Miller of Emancipate North Carolina. Attorney Miller has concluded, as you should have read in her email earlier today, that Dillon's rule is not a reasonable barrier to mandatory sign released or lowest law enforcement priority. Attorney Miller could not find an instance in which the city engaged with our legal argument supporting these proposed policies, but she did find two instances where Manager Pate and Attorney French challenged our proposal, again, without responding directly to our defense using North Carolina General Statute 15A-302, By citing dylan's rule as though dylan's rule is this impenetrable obstacle to preventing arrest from misdemeanor cannabis cannabis possession in winston. It is not in fact according to her analysis dylan's rule might not even apply in north carolina particularly in this instance so we're asking you still to pass two policies mandatory sign release and lowest level enforcement priority for misdemeanor possession. Because as of right now, without those decriminalization measures, Black and Latino residents are being stopped and incarcerated more often for things like this. This is a hemp-derived blunt that I bought a couple hours ago in Councilmember Clark's ward, just across the street from a church. And if I take it outside the tube, I won't, because I know the smell gives some people a headache. But if I take it outside of the tube, I assure you, you would not be able to tell the difference between this and illegal cannabis. It's a blunt. So unless we want to continue the racist governance that was set up by the likes of City Manager Gold or Mayor Kavanaugh, we need to prevent the racially disproportionate enforcement for possessing things that look and smell like this. Despite Chief Penn's claims that the weed in Winston-Salem is not mellowing people out, I can assure you that this blunt is not going to make me go on a rampage. In fact, this one is labeled as an indica strain, and that usually just makes me go to sleep. So... Once again, we are asking that our ordinance proposal be pushed through the General Government Committee. I also want to follow up with Councilmember Andrew Bowen about the meeting that was proposed earlier today informally. And we are asking this with the understanding that Dillon's rule is not a barrier to our proposed ordinance passage. I'm going to leave a couple copies of Attorney Miller's analysis, as well as the ordinance proposal that we've sent y'all a couple of times, just in case you need it to read over again.

thank you thank you matthew mayors please getting sleepy

My name is Matthew Mayers. I live at 2844 Wesleyan Lane. I wanted to, first of all, call out some really positive things that have happened recently. Echoing one thing Mr. Pate was talking about earlier, the incredible response by utilities when the water main broke. That was like superhuman. And another, I just have to go on record for your amusement saying I'm so glad the fire department is driving their SUVs more. Probably not something you expected me to say, driving your SUV more makes me happy, but if it's as opposed to driving a big fire engine, that's a great thing, and especially if it lets them respond better to emergency situations. But I'm really here to offer kind of like a public service announcement to y'all pretty soon. I think you're going to be getting the report on your property evaluation of the state of the property inventory for the city. And after that, I hope making some decisions about how you want to improve those properties in lots of ways. And I hope including the monitoring and efficiency of energy use in them. So the public service announcement part is to let you know that among the tools in your toolbox going forward, on top of things like bond issues and all of that, If you haven't seen, a couple of weeks ago in Raleigh, they passed Senate Bill 445, which was a regulatory reform bill. And a part of it was to streamline the process of letting government entities enter into guaranteed energy savings contracts. And if you probably are somewhat familiar with those, but again, for public record, It allows city governments or other entities to contract with the third party not have to put forth a bunch of cash necessarily and start to see savings from from energy efficiency right away. Is it as good a deal not dollar for dollar but you don't have to come up with the cash so in that sense it can be a real unlock for moving forward on things. Since I have forty eight seconds also mentioned House bill one sixty two also passed which means no more parking limits no more parking minimums I should say. which I know that's somewhat controversial, but think of how marvelous that's going to be for opening up housing in the city. I know there will be people who are a little upset, but this is a good thing for improving density and fighting against sprawl. So, hooray for that. And I hope you have a good night. I think I'm last, so you all get to go home. Good night.

Thank you, Mr. Mayors. Is there anyone else who wants to speak during the public comment period? Yes, ma'am.

Hi all my name is Marilyn Medeo-Lacumza de la Cruz. I live in Mebane and I don't have a Winston-Salem address. I'm here because I stand in solidarity and in full support with HADOW, Winston-Salem's Fair Justice and Safety Act. Fuerza Triad NC supports a youth policy that decriminalizes small amount marijuana possession by minors through site and release. and diversion while keeping criminal penalties for selling, trafficking, distribution, driving, and adult supplying marijuana to minors. North Carolina General Statute 90-95 currently makes possession of Schedule six controlled substance a class three misdemeanor with marijuana penalties increasing by quantity possession over the half one half ounce becomes a class one misdemeanor and possession over one and one half ounce becomes class one felony. We should not treat teenagers caught with small personal use amount the same way that we treat someone selling drugs to children. The policy should be simple. Seize the substance, issue site, notify parents, guardian, when appropriate, connect the young person to education, assessment, counseling, diversion, and keep them out of detention and unnecessary criminal processing. The person selling it is a different enforcement problem. North Carolina already recognizes that youth justice can use interventions other than incarceration. Under Chapter 7B, juvenile courts can impose counseling, community service, substance abuse, programming, supervision, curfews as conditions of juvenile dispositions. There is also useful historical comparison with tobacco in 1998. The CDC documented the 42 states had laws prohibiting minors from purchasing, possessing, or prohibiting selling or distribution of tobaccos to minors. North Carolina specifically prohibits minors from purchasing tobacco and classified the violation as a class two misdemeanor. The policy lesson is that we can regulate youth access and hold sellers accountable without making criminalization of the young person the primary intervention. I support narrowly written safety focus. I support... Sorry, I need reading glasses. North Carolina General Statute 153A-142 expressly authorizes counties to impose a curfew on anyone 18 and under 18 in north carolina law also provides municipal authority for juvenile curfews but the curfew has to be written around safety not punishment there should be explicit exceptions for work school religious services organized activities medical care transportation or even coming out to city council to be able to speak because you know it goes after nine and not turning ordinary presence in public into unnecessary, disproportionately racially targeted arrest or criminal records. Our standards should be simple, hold adults, dealers, traffickers accountable, yada, yada, yada, and not putting our kids into the criminal justice pipeline. Thank you.

Anyone else for the public comment period?

My name is Sarah Gerard, 216 West Banner Avenue. I also came to support Hate Out's initiatives on decriminalization. I'm very concerned about our federal government and the fact that we have both white supremacists and white nationalists in office right now. And the trickle down of that to us, I finally like, I can only, I think a lot of globally and nationally and internationally, but locally is the only place I can really have enough impact. I'm just very concerned about that and I want to try to get support from my local officials in protecting the community so in things like not over policing people for things that are not really crimes I mean we we have well I could we've Sorry, I'm a little nervous. I didn't put in a thing to speak, so. But things like not, How are we going to protect our citizens in general and with things like the ice raids and ice stops there we've had our share of say we can't do anything because this is you know this is federal but who will protect our citizens when you have federal officers doing things that are illegal. So I just wanted to speak in solidarity with hate out and also say that I plan to attend meetings more regularly because I want to have our local officials protecting our citizens. Thank you. Thank you.

And someone else want to speak?

Hello. Sorry.

hello i'm charlie palachuk i live in greensboro although some of you will have seen me around the fair bit uh olivia already covered everything pretty thoroughly so i just want to say that uh i also stand in solidarity with hate out and uh support the winston-salem fair justin public safety act thank you thank you very much anyone else during the public comment period i see anyone i'll close the public comment period we do have the need to go into a closed session

I make a comment before we do that brief comment. I was at a meeting the other day, I don't remember which one, but the police chief was there and I specifically asked the question, how many flock cameras does the city of Winston-Salem have? And he said, none. No, you asked it? I asked it. Anyway, we both asked it, but that's what he said.

answer was the same all right thank you sir we're not talking back and forth in the audience yes I move for the city council to go into closed session pursuant to North Carolina General statute 143-318.11 a6 to conduct the city manager's annual performance evaluation

Second.

Second.

All in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. That's unanimous. We're now going to close session. all in favor of any close session please say aye aye a motion to adjourn motion by mayor pro tem seconded by several all those in favor of the motion to adjourn say aye aye we're adjourned