Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

I got one minute though. Would you like to say the pledge of allegiance? We can say it all together. Yeah, but someone leads it.

One minute. Well, now Trey, okay, it's time to call this meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission to order. Robin, you would like to take role. Absolutely, Mr. Chair. Chair Henzik, present.

Vice Chair Larson is not with us. Commissioner Broyals is not with us. Our uh normal chair Cordick is not with us. Uh Commissioner Berila, Commissioner Showel, Commissioner Burmel, alternate Lavas, alternate chair, present, council member leazison Mabberry, council member liaison Rambo here. Our HBC advisor, Mr. Scott, present.

Our youth commissioner, Raggy Ramen, is running late. Uh, Commissioner Boore here. And our Wildwood Historical Society liaison Bong Gruben present. All right, Mr. Chair, we do have quorum. Opening remarks for the chair. I really don't have any since I got Here you go. So, no, I don't have any remarks. And um Janine, would you like to lead us in pledge of

allegiance? I states approval of the last month's um historic preservation commission's meeting. Anybody find any revisions or comments about it? Any vote to approve it or motion to approve it? Everyone accept it.

$1 for not using the mic, please. Yes, we have one doubter. Mr. Chair, if we got a motion, a second, and then got a motion and a second, and then a vote. All those in favor of approving the meeting minutes? I I amendments are approved by consent. Okay. We have anybody public comment present or online?

Uh Mr. Chair, we do have a few individuals online. If they would like to make public comment at this time, please use the raised hand feature. Right, Mr. Chair. We have no public comment. Great. Um, updates from Wildwood Historic Society.

Oh, hopefully after this weekend, the winter will be over. Uh, our first uh public presentation will be on uh a just lost it. It's a minute. I'm sorry. uh Sunday, March 15th at 2 p.m. and it will be about uh Ulisses and Julia Grant's Missouri love story. So, it's a really interesting take. It's not something that people have normally thought about. And so it's a it's a it's a presentation about how they met and and their time in Missouri. And we are progressing with all the things that we're trying to do. So it's is the weather has gotten in the way of doing some physical things. We're doing some repair work um to the museum, the outside of the museum building, and that will hopefully start next week if the weather cooperate. That's about it.

Thank you. Okay, it's round to you, Robin. Old business ready for action.

All right, Mr. chair. Uh members of this commission, uh we do have a guest presenter with us this evening. Marcia Bole uh with MIG is here to talk to you and uh lead you through a discussion of the uh historic preservation plan now that we've gotten past uh both this commission's comments and review of the first full draft of the plan as well as the uh virtual openhouse event which was uh very successful. Um, so for those of you that attended the virtual open house, thank you for that. Uh, we did have around 40 attendees uh, join us for that event, including one in-person attendee at city hall. Uh, we had uh, some great discussion. Uh I think MIG did a very nice job with it and uh now they've taken all of that input and they've folded that into I'm sorry the next rendition of the historic preservation plan which is now formatted into the template um that they're going to use uh for the final version of the document. Uh so tonight I'm going to turn it over to Marcia Bole. She's going to again lead us through um a highlevel discussion um about the plan as it is today. Thank you. Good evening and thanks Robin. Um appreciate that intro. Um as she mentioned too, I just wanted to say thanks to everybody for helping with the event last week. Um we thought it was very successful and we're pleased with the attendance. Um and we got a lot of great input. So we're excited to have that kind of as we um work towards the next month and a half or so to finish up the plan document. Um I know your packet tonight includes a lot of information for um the historic preservation plan. I want to give you a quick overview of two things and then focus on a third and have some discussion around the goals and um strategic actions that we have because over the next month we are going to be finalizing kind of the order of

things, prioritization and really adding in the last detail. Um as Robin said there's a formatted version. There's still lots of placeholders. I'll mention those as I go through. Um but want to kind of turn your attention to each of these pieces to make sure that we get your feedback. I believe when we see you again in March, um we will have the final formatted plan document for your review. Um and from there, we'll move into adoption. So, we're moving pretty quickly here, but want to make sure we get your input as we go. Um I'll go ahead and share my screen to show a couple things. Um first before we start discussion, um so and just want to make sure you guys can see the screen, I assume. Yes. hopefully um let me know if you can't. I'm showing a couple different things. Both have the

Yes,

thank you. Um so we've got the summary from last week's event. Um the beginning of this summary includes kind of highle information about the um structure of the event that we hosted, the key questions, and then as you get into the detail, you can see the responses from those questions, kind of the analysis, which is going to be what shows up in the plan document. The second um document for your review is a formatted version of the plan. Like I mentioned, there are a lot of placeholders in here right now, primarily on photos and sidebars, but this is starting to bring all of the elements together that had been in the Word document. All the text from the Word document is what you're seeing here in this. So, it's not new text. Um, but then we'll have kind of these photos and sidebars, links, um, as we go kind of through the plan document and content. Um, so we would welcome any feedback on um, the format. Um, if there's things that you want to see change or adjust, like I said, pictures are definitely going to be adjusted over the next few weeks, um, as we kind of button this up and, um, finalize things. Um, maybe I'll pause really quick before getting into kind of the bulk of what I want to talk about tonight. Does anyone have questions about either the summary and event from last week or um, the formatted version of the plan document?

I have a question, Marca. Yeah, sure. Um, based on on the 40 or so people that attended the open house, maybe um know this about how many would you say are from the from this council or very knowledgeable or from Wildwood Historical Society compared to the general public?

Yeah, we definitely had a few attendees from each um from council um the HPC. I know Jill was on. Um, we also had a couple of the founding members of the community which was great. Um, one thing that I thought was wonderful was when we asked this question at the beginning here about whether people are aware of the historic preservation program, the majority of people that answered said they are aware and that kind of awareness level varies a bit. But, um, we were really pleased to see that because I think if we answered this question six months ago, we may have had a different answer. So, I think it was a great mix of folks um that have lived in the community for varying levels of time. Um you can see here too that we've got a lot that have lived in the community for over 11 years, but then also a pretty good chunk of people that have lived um in the community for um less than 10 years. And I I think I said 11 years. It's over 20 years. Any other questions on these couple documents? Okay. Not seeing anything or hearing anything. So, we'll move into this one. So, um for I would say I know you have a busy agenda tonight. Um and want to kind of move us quickly through this conversation, but do want to make sure we get some good discussion about where we stand right now with the goals and the strategic actions. Um what we've done in this document that's in your packet is pulled out all of the actions and all of the goals um as they stand now. It's organized by it's organized in two different ways so that if you have a preference and how you review it, that's kind of available to you in two ways. So the first is by goal. So you can see each of the short-term actions, medium-term actions, and long-term actions that support that goal. If you scroll down towards the bottom, um, they are organized kind of in the opposite way, which is by timing. So, starting on page 15, we have the actions grouped by

timing. So, you can see all the short-term actions, those 0 to 5year actions, medium-term actions of 6 to 10 years, and then long-term actions of 10 plus years. We've included these because we do have them in the plan document, but just want to remind you that we are really focused on the 0 to 10ear time period. Um, we've worked with Robin a little bit and Jill provided comments recently too about kind of the order of of some of these and the timing. Um, we want to make sure that we're capturing momentum that you already have on certain topic areas to be able to kind of keep that rolling and um, move things along as far as some of the actions. Um, we also though want to make sure that we're not overwhelming you all and staff and those that will be imple implementing the plan document. Um, so want to be realistic about how many actions we have in each category. Um, the first page of this gives you a quick summary of where we currently stand. So right now we have seven goals there in the body of the document. Um, there are 17 short-term actions, 14 medium-term actions, and 19 long-term actions. And then there's some additional goals um in the appendix right now. And there are 31 long-term actions. So the 10 plus years associated with those goals. What we're hoping to get from you all tonight are any thoughts on these three key questions on that first page. So are there any goals or actions that you think should be combined? Are there any that you think might function more appropriately as a vision element? Are there changes you'd like to see in the timing? So between short, medium, and long-term. And then um are there any changes you want to see um from the timing of the goals in the 0ero to 10-year actions versus goals in the appendix? So I know that's a lot of questions, but again we're trying to get some feedback from you all tonight on whether things should move um move around kind of in order um in the document overall and um want to just get that discussion going. So, I don't know if we have anybody that has initial

thoughts and wants to kind of kick off the um potential edits or likes something staying where it is. Anything we're we're kind of happy to hear. Yes, chair. Question. Uh Miss Miss Bole, can I call you Marcia? Yes, please. Thank you. you saved me a dollar remembering to

um did I hear correctly that part of tonight's discussion or part of a study that we'll take away and make notes on and come back um in a month u or the expectation is that we fresh this out tonight. Is there is there a desire to have us second guessess whether some uh timing is supposed to jump around as much as some priorities so that yeah I to five years

that really needs time to adjustate and needs funding then this thing over here why is it waiting forever 10 plus years it needs to be right up front now. Yes, correct. Yeah, you're kind of putting those pieces together that um we've kind of had an initial take on what could happen here in the kind of 0 to 5, 6 to 10, 10 plus years. Um Robin has given us some recent suggestions on things to shift around. So that is shown here. Um but there may be others and we want to make sure that you all as the HPC have a chance to comment on that. Um and to see, you know, a lot of this is going to factor right into your work program that you do on an annual basis. Um, so we want to make sure that the things that there is momentum on right now and that um, you know, you've got that energy to capture that we're really moving that forward and then the things that are going to take a little bit longer to make happen or that need to happen sequentially after another thing um, can wait until kind of the 6 to 10 or 10 plus years. Um I will also say to your first question um we can have discussion tonight um but I believe the next meeting I was reviewing the kind of dates ahead of tonight's meeting and looking at your packet and I believe the next meeting um in March the HPC meeting will have a final document. So comments from tonight and then probably about the next week will be we'll need to make a cut off because we'll need to pull all of this into the formatting and make sure that we capture those edits um before we see you next.

Marshia, I have another question please. Yes. Um, regarding the actions, are they finalized or do you see them potentially evolving over time?

I think for the So, for this plan document, the text that you see now um well, I should say the text in this document is a um concise version of them. There's in the actual document um the text is longer. Just for this, it was easier to kind of pull the key things out of it. So you can see here on the screen we have um kind of the longer iteration of the strategy that we're we're noting. Um we're happy to take revisions to that text too though if you see there's something me not mentioned that you want mentioned. If you want to take something out of it that's also fine. Um but the intent is that you know what's in the document now and kind of shown here is really leading towards that final version. Um and refinements may happen during implementation. That is always something that you know you can keep in mind. Um the version that gets adopted things of course change kind of especially you know 5 years down the line there may be some different priorities that you need to consider. Um, but that's where your work program will be really important in the implementation of this that you can pull direct things out of the plan document and make sure you're implementing that. If things need to adjust timing and you know in five years if you need to kind of re-evaluate something and and switch something because of momentum you have going then that's also fine. Um, but as it stands right now, these are kind of the draft um goals and actions and we can adjust them as necessary based on kind of comment tonight or in the next week or so. Yeah, that's that's where I was going because as

we implement things then we may understand them better and then they might be need to be tweaked. That's where I was going.

Yes. Yeah, that's perfect. Um and I think someone may have brought that up to at maybe the last HBC meeting and because of that too we are working on adding this kind of plan implementation piece. You can see there's some placeholders right now but just talking about how to update the plan document. um making sure that it is a living document even though it will get adopted this year. It's a living document and something that we recognize that um nothing ever gets implemented exactly as it's as it's outlined because things change, funding changes, priorities change, but this gives you kind of a road map to some of the key actions to really accomplish the goals that we have established through this planning process. Marie Yeah, I think so.

Go ahead. I I'm seeing a a significant overlap some of these goals and I'm actually even wondering if they might be fine because you have a lot on your plate and you would be putting a lot on the city's plate, our plate. And I just think the wording is is something that they're they're just so significant such significant overlap that it were one goal it would shorten things and keep things simple. Sure. For example, Sure.

enhance goal number one enhance the visitor experience and goal number two concentrate strategies to boost economic opportunity around uh Wildwood's historic town center. To me, those are one and the same. an economic boost is always the driving force and should be always the number one force. Um it's the bottom line and it's the bottom line that funds everything.

I I agree and I I think some of the actions under number one are kind of communications awareness kinds of things and they support economic impact. Mhm. Yeah, it's a great point. And that also goes along with

I'm sorry you're kind of going in and out for me. This is Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you better now. Thanks. I had my feet. I had You're off. No, you're off. Oh, okay. Okay. That was my problem. I'm sorry, Marca. I was saying that

one, two, and five were very much related. And again, bringing people to the area will bring in money which will boost the economy in the area. And if business are businesses are seeing a return, it's important to have their support. Sure, that's great. Yep. So, I guess with that in mind and because there have been a few comments about that, if I can ask a follow-up. Um, just thinking about if we did combine one, two, and five having it would essentially be kind of a focus on heritage, tourism, and economic development. Um, there will of course be a heavy piece of that that is focused on Route 66. Um, but it goes beyond Route 66. So, I want to just kind of flag that as something that we may not be calling that out in a goal if we were to combine them. Um, and just see if that's something that is palatable or if you want to make sure that Route 66 is called out because we know that's a really important part of the community and the history of the community. I had a point that was accidentally a perfect description um given for what I wondered was why is why is gold one and goal two and goal three and four and five separated not why they should be combined what I found was that okay the definition of one is the building that's the premise uh two okay that must be the instruction booklet or kit um and to to bring support uh that supports whatever comes next. Whatever comes next is some rules of how to engage. Four is um keep a foundation, build a foundation

and a structure and all that gets us is oh money at five re get some people here to spend money on tourism. So uh what I was going to ask is you got a lot of things spread out here but it may be um it may be by design instead of by um by accident or any other reason. Can we rely on both the department and our contractor uh agent to push back when they think it's appropriate? Uh don't be shy. I found a lot of good basis for this and the first thing I heard when I heard about consolidation I go well yeah that the whole thing is inter in integrated and it does move a story and it does go somewhere. Um so what I was wondering is why did they stop at seven? Uh why don't we have nine or 10? We do have a goal eight. Oh, we have a goal 10. Oh, lots of goals. We're up to 12. Um, uh, I never got really a whatever it's called, a logic flow diagram of here's the here's the here's the procedure we use to build these 12 goals and why they aren't three or why they aren't 23. Um, is something like that ever been done or is something like that uh uh easy to define that would really point us to places where we're expected as amateurs to go and then places where just nose out. We're the professionals here. We put this together. We've done this 65 times. Um, focus your calories here and we can get this thing kicked off in the summer and not have to be um um reinventing it for the next six months. That's all.

Yeah, that's helpful. Um, from the kind of creation the the molding the clay piece, I would say that um the there's not a diagram that we've produced, but we could certainly kind of put that flowchart together of how we got where we are today. Um, I think the key thing is, you know, all the engagement that happened from last summer through the fall, having those conversations and then that kind of started to there were some themes and some priorities that started to emerge and that coupled with um kind of our review of what you're currently doing um and kind of knowledge of other preservation programs around the country led to what you're seeing today um or a version of what you're seeing today. We've been through a handful of versions at this point, but we have tried to also prioritize and be realistic about how many things can actually get done. We know there's only so many staff, there's only so many HPC members and so many partners. Um, and while we hope that this work helps expand the partners in the community, we also if we put at one point we did have a lot more actions in this document. And rightfully so, um, Robin and Joe pushed back and said that's not realistic for us. um to be able to accomplish all of that in 10 years. And that's fine and that's what we needed to hear. And so that is why you're seeing kind of the number of goals in the body of the document and strategies to support that.

Mr. Chair, with your permission.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the commission. Um Miss Bole has hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Um from the perspective of the department when we began looking at the list of goals and all the actions it was overwhelming. Again remember um the department of planning is 10 individuals two of which are code enforcement one of which is our administrative administrative assistant and two that deals almost solely with parks and recreation. You do the subtraction that's four of us and we also do a number of other activities. So my charge to Miss Bole and the rest of her team was let's make a manageable document. And the reason I think it should be manageable is an unsuccessful plan is a plan that has all the great words in it and all of it basically structured so it looks good but one that is so ownorous or so over the top nothing gets done. So I also asked them to make sure that whatever goals and actions you have we meaning Robin the rest of the planning team and myself feel that we can actually achieve them. So I understand that we have 12 goals but for the most part that was the direction we gave the team at MIG. Please, those goals that you see from your outside perspective that we would like to do but probably can't do based upon what you've heard, put those out there. We don't want to lose them, but it's kind of like our work program. We have active and we have inactive. And to a certain degree, I see those as the inactive ones, but doesn't mean that we can't get to them if an opportunity arises. Thank you. And if I could just follow up on what um Joe is saying there, which is very true that um there are goals that have moved

into the appendix. Um but part of the question tonight for HBC members is are there goals in that set of things and I'll scroll down here. So starting at goal 8 that you say actually we really should prioritize that over something else that's being shown in the 0 to 10ear time period. Um, one thing or a couple things maybe I'll mention that we've talked with Robin about um, late last week following the um, public event was, you know, is there a way to consolidate some of the goals in the appendix um, and prioritize them as far as, you know, maybe there are a few things from the appendix that do need to move into the body of the document. Um, but we're not saying they're all short and medium-term actions. There are probably a lot of them that still stay as long-term actions. Um, but are there things that should be prioritized in the next 10 years? Um, and I believe it was at the last HPC meeting that maybe it was a council leaison mentioned. You know, I'm seeing lots of of things that are more organizational development that are in the appendix and that was a very good observation and true statement. Um, so if something like that the HPC thinks should move up, then we also can think about is there something from those first seven goals that needs to be depprioritized and move down so that you can focus your efforts on some of these other things. Um, one other thing I'll mention and then open it up to is we've had a little discussion too about um this goal of engaging youth and young adults. Um, and Robin pointed out that that is something you guys are doing very well, which which we completely agree. Um, and that maybe this is more kind of a principle of how you all approach the preservation program and less of its own goal. Maybe some of these strategies can be integrated in our um general engagement opportunities and that we make sure that um integrating youth and young adults into the implementation of the program is

more of a vision element and less of a specific goal that you kind of check on the check off the list and move on. It's something you're keeping in mind regardless of the action that you are working on implementing. So I'll plant those couple seeds and and also see if anyone has any comment. U Mr. Chair, I do have um the way that you frame that um Marsha and just looking through the timeline of these long-term actions. Um, I'm wondering if there shouldn't be a section that is more of a ongoing best practices of the HPC section because there's a few of these longterm goals like develop training session material for city and staff and HBC to understand the HP program and HP plan. Provide these trainings annually. I mean, that sounds more like an annual best practice. The work HPC work program, we're already doing that. building in checkpoints and progress reports. That sounds like a best practice. You know, keeping the youth involved, you know, making our approach intergenerational, that sounds like a best practice. Um, and maybe that makes it less um I guess, you know, it it takes things out of the goals section to make it look like like less of a enormous task ahead of us, but more of a, you know, this is the way we operate on a regular basis. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it makes sense because if the city already has systems in place to support elements of this plan, then I don't think they need to be actions.

What was once a goal is now a practice. And I I think that's that's perfect. That took a while. Um, yeah, I uh um in the this is a just a structural thing. The in the historic districts that um in the historic districts landmarks section, um we have a list of several St. Louis County landmarks. We have a list of Wildwood's historic communities, which is kind of the larger issue for me. I wonder if we could or should have a little map that shows where those are located because there's no map that I saw anywhere else in the the document. Um it would be ever so handy because we refer to those communities a lot and um you know it's almost shorthand for us. Well, it's in hollow or it's in kelp or whatever. Um I think we'd be really handy.

Yeah, that that's great. And you're I assume you're talking about the formatted version of the document. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm looking at the actual Yeah. draft document page 46, etc. Yep. Yep. No, I think that's a great comment. Um, we can definitely add a map in here. We um there's some images and things that we have in here already, but definitely need more need to add more and kind of fill out what we have so far. So, we'll make a note of that to include a map.

Yeah. Especially the neighborhoods. I think it's important. Thanks. I'd like to make some comments. Um, first of all, I think u from the formatting it looks great. I think you've done a great job and um I think it'll be very pleasant hopefully for everyone to look at although large. Um, I'm also Yeah, I'm also asking if we could have a few days at least to kind of answer the questions that you have instead of trying to all in tonight. Um, you guys want to give us dates to meet that would be fine with me. So, I'd like to propose that we do that. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I think that's fine. And I think um I may confirm this with Robin too, but if we can give you all a week maybe to do that um so that you can then kind of provide any other comments on the goals, the vision elements, um the actions and then we can adjust from there. Um and I think that should give us enough time to then integrate that into the formatted version so that we can have that kind of polished up before we see you next next month. Does that work? Is a week okay? Works fine for me. Okay, Robin, are you okay with that timing?

Uh, I'm okay with that as as long as the member Well, I I see some faces. Uh, raise your hand if you are okay with that time. What What are we agreeing to first of all? one one week turnaround on comments um regarding these goals.

Yeah. And and and that's the meat of my question. We talking a Zoom? We talk in a special session? We talk in a uh emails and texts uh phone call with 20 people on it. What What do you have in mind that'll that'll tell me how efficient and how productive it'll be? The format basically. Marsha, are you looking for a conversation from this group or would written comments suffice for this?

I I was anticipating written comments um that you can do directly in the document. Um, if I mean if we wanted to do kind of I don't know if calling a special session in a week is too close, but mostly I'm thinking about if we gave you a week um maybe Robin could help compile comments and send those to us on the 6th and then we would essentially have two weeks to finish up the um formatted version of the document before we need to get it back um to you all for your HPC packet um I believe if I have my dates correct um for the 26th. of March. So, just trying to think kind of back out from the next HPC meeting and making sure we have time to integrate your comments.

And Marca, you will send me your your set of discussion questions from tonight so I can send it out via email or I guess

yeah, I think these are kind of the key questions. Um, but again, we'll we'll take any comments you have. Um, so if they don't fit perfectly into one of these questions, still send it to us because we want to review that and be able to kind of respond accordingly. And are you looking for us to approve this at the next meeting? I might Robin I may have you answer that but I know we have tenative adoption hearing dates for um early April I believe and early May for the planning and zoning commission and um city council. So I assume yes that that kind of draft that you see at the next meeting will be the draft that goes to planning commission and council. Um there will be if there are final edits following adoption hearings, we can make those of course um believe any recommendations you would provide would go kind of through those hearings for potential changes to make. But yes, I do believe that is the kind of iteration you'll see um before before the public hearings.

Yes, and I would just confirm that is the what the department has outlined. Um, so this is this is kind of we're we're getting to the final product here and this is the final that's why we're at this very high level stage of okay, we've got all of this information together in front of us. We've got these short-term, medium-term, long-term goals and now we got to really put our thinking caps on and say, is this is this going to be, you know, a functional guiding document for the HPC for the next 10 to 15 years? And if not, how can we get there? Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Quick question maybe for Robin. I'm the newest one catching up. On page 15, there's five things listed as benefits of historic preservation. Are those the five metrics or outcomes we're trying to improve on and that's why these goals and activities are there? Is there a correlation?

Robin, I can't tell if you're answering, but I'm happy to. Yes, I am asking you to answer.

Okay. Yes. Um, so those benefits are mostly educational. Um, there's not kind of a series of metrics per se. The vision elements are really what we are working towards and having all of the goals and all of the actions support the vision elements. The benefits of historic preservation is in here towards the beginning of the document because we often find that community members are new to the topic of preservation. And so being able to educate them on how historic preservation benefits the community and benefits you as residents um is really important to kind of outline at the beginning so people understand that value ad um as they kind of read the rest of the document and see the actions and see the goals that um the commission and that staff will be working towards.

Mr. Chair, if I may.

No, please. Couple of comments. First, relative to any edits or comments that you would provide relative to the current draft document, please don't hit reply all. With seven of you replying, you have a quorum and we have to post meetings that have quorums and we have to make them available to the public. So, send your comments to Robin and Robin and I will distribute them from there. Secondly, the May meeting of city council is an unusual meeting in that there's two sessions. The first session is unfinished business and then the existing council members that are no longer on council leave and then the second session is where we seat the new members. the new members, which there could be several this year, do not necessarily have the background that the existing council has that has endorsed the planning process that we're in the middle of right now and nearing the end. So from that perspective, there may be bump in this schedule. I don't know if it's going to be April, May or May, June. Um there's a lot of things that go into that decision-making process. Principally, Mayor Garitano who sets the agenda. So, please continue forward as if we're going to make that time frame, April, May, but as we get a little closer to that April date, we'll probably have some updates and maybe let you know if we're going to be able to succeed there or not. Thank you.

Thank comment. Um, so in the interest of time, I'm just going to send Robin my comments. Sure.

But I have on goal A, build staff and historic preservation commission capacity. In reading through this plan, and I know that's a long-term action. That's why it's pushed to the back a little bit. But as I read this document, and there's so many great things in here, I'm I had a similar comment to Mr. Vunich is how are we going to get all this done and how can the city accomplish this and in my mind goal eight might be one way to do that if we if we move that up and maybe it's not realistic city folks but I think there's so much work in this plan I not sure it can be achieved with the current staff

so my comment is should that be moved high So they make it to the on field versus the uh substitutes.

Well certainly I would ask you to dream big and don't be limited by what you may hear, what you may see or what you are told. This plan should be the document that you all feel comfortable adopting and implementing regardless of where that goal may f fall or were the actions if they're reasonable, unreasonable, time consuming, uh, quick to complete. But I think um our council leazison will tell you that um since the beginning of the year almost all of our programming has been stripped bare and many of our projects relative to parks and recreation and even purchases have been reduced if not eliminated. So adding staff, adding capacity, adding consultants, it's going to be difficult. It's not to say it can't happen, but eventually all of you as residents are going to be asked. Will you accept the tax? Because we can't continue forward under our current revenue sources with them all declining. And so if you want to dream big, it's part of that. There may be a cost. And so just preparing you. But I'm not here to tell you to stop. That's the job of the city administrator. and he's doing it very well of late. So, let's dream big for a while. But I do want to emphasize there are some there are some winds buffeting the the boat right now.

And if I can maybe add to that too, um I agree if there are thoughts like that to pull something forward and make it more of a priority than is currently shown, tell us that. But then maybe also suggest, you know, if we're prioritizing this thing, maybe something that's already shown as a short or medium-term action should get deprioritized so that we're balancing out how many things are going to be required of staff and of you all in the next 10 years. Um, so keep that in mind too. If there's something that you think in goal 1 through seven, maybe this doesn't need to happen in the in the short term or the medium term, let's think about moving it down so that we can work on that balance and maintaining a balance that is actually implementable.

Sorry, Miss Bo. And again, we have a week to achieve the end product that we discussed and described. From the perspective of the director of the department, I think really understanding the goals and their prioritization should be your first task as you sit down with the document. If there's 12 goals, what are the real important ones? What are those? the actions will follow and we can certainly always adjust the actions. But I think really your charge is the big picture of these 12 goals. Which ones are the things we should work on day after day, month after month as a commission? And then particularly as I think Miss Bole mentioned, have we missed something? Is there something glaring out there that despite all of our best efforts and the expertise of our consultants, there's something that we've missed? I'd look to the Wildwood Historical Society to tell us that in some regards because they are an outside perspective, a different set of eyes looking more so in than way as out. So I would suggest starting there and if you have time then for the actions great but if you rearrange the goals I think the actions will follow and then certainly we can talk there. Thank you.

And I'm happy to take any more comments tonight, too. But know that you'll kind of sit with this for the next week. Um, and I know you have a long agenda tonight, too. So, um, I don't want to belabor this conversation. Um, when you've got other things to to get to as well, but if there are any other comments before we kind of wrap the conversation tonight, happy to to take those now and make those notes. and we'll kind of be working on things over the next week as well as you review Marsha. I just want to congratulate the group all of us and and and you all I over the years in lots of different parts of my life I've read a lot of documents and this is regardless of what the content is. organized well, it will present well and I think that's the other key thing that we all have to realize that we're not okay this is going to be our work document but first of all we have to present it out to the rest of the world and this will look very very good and you know the content we will figure out and get done in the next time period but sometimes that visual presentation makes all the difference in the world to the rest of the world. I I don't know if I'm explaining that correctly, but that presentation, having everything look just really good makes a big difference in the way the rest of the world accepts what we're doing rather than a peace meal things. This is this is good stuff and the group of us will figure out what we need to do in the next few days. So, but congratulations for all the work that everyone has done to get it this far and to look the way it does.

And if I may add some follow-up comments to uh Jill's which were just wonderful. Um I would also like to add that this plan um this very attractive plan um is also going to be uh kind of the the basis or justification for a lot of the work that you do going forward in the next in the future. Like this this kind of plan is what I'm going to refer to when I'm applying for grants and funding and when I'm trying to get resources to come together to make some of these projects happen. Um so so think really hard about about your goals and priorities because those goals and priorities are going to be what we pursue in this plan is going to justify um some of the resources that are spent on them. So um just be thinking through that lens as well.

We're moving on now. Uh yes, thank you so much Marca for uh coming tonight and us in that conversation. Yeah, thank you all for the kind of initial thoughts and look forward to any other comments over the next week.

All right. um AfricanAmerican history project. All right, Mr. chair members of this commission. Uh it was a few years ago actually in 2024 uh that Doris Keven Frankie, our one of our local historians, uh came knocking on my door asking if we could nominate a site to the network to freedom. And at the time she was very excited because she had discovered that Archer Alexander uh during his escape to St. Louis um had crossed the Missouri River at How's Ferry in uh northern Wildwood and southern Chesterfield area and she felt like we would be um the ideal partner um to help her um move that nomination along and um at the same time she was hoping that the city might erect some sort of interpretive signage. Well, that led to the idea um as we as we thought about all of the as as we thought of the wealth of history up in that area with Madison Valley, um our stories around the United States Colored Troops, uh the Wesland Acres 's historic community. Um, and all of the history around the Coleman and Tyler plantations that's preserved in in Babler State Park and some of the slave se um slave cemeteries. We just we we have a lot of history right up in that

area. And so we we decided to think bigger um beyond just that one nomination and that one site um to you know potentially a whole interpretive uh trail uh for our African-American heritage here in Wildwood and the general area. Um we have an existing greenway in the Monarch Chesterfield Levy Trail. um that that trail is 11 miles long and connects to the Katy Trail uh which is you know a very popular trail across Missouri um and uh we're hoping it will very you know in the near future at least connect to Babler State Park as well um as they're working through the Western Greenway project. Uh so um so there's a lot of opportunity um ahead of us with the African-American history uh heritage trail and we've had a lot of enthusiasm from uh the community and various potential stakeholders like Great Rivers Greenway and um and and others. Uh we just recently last year as part of the historic preservation plan had a focus group uh that focused on the African-American and indigenous heritage in Wildwood. Uh most of the discussion of that focus group actually focused on the African-American heritage trail and we had a wonderful discussion um uh with a lot of diverse stakeholders in the project. So we do believe it will be a very uh popular project. U multiple entities will want to be involved. the National Park Service has endorsed it. Um, uh, so we want to make it happen. And what we said was, okay, well, we've got this historic preservation plan effort going on. We can't possibly, you know, start start a new thing at the same time as that planning effort. So, we we planned it as maybe a a fall uh 2026 kickoff. And uh with that, our friends at the

state uh historic preservation office advertised a new cycle of historic preservation uh fund grants um and provided us the opportunity to potentially get an interpretive and design uh plan funded for the trail. Um, so I am here before you tonight to uh say that I have submitted the pre-application for our AfricanAmerican Heritage Trail interpretive and design plan and we're hoping uh that will be a successful application so that we can kick off this effort in the fall. Um so if you have any questions for me regarding that, um I would love to hear from you at this time. As you know, we've been working working towards this. Um, I I think for those of you who are newer to the commission, you've probably heard network to freedom more often out of my mouth and African-American Heritage Trail, but we've been working towards this larger effort all along and we're excited to get started this year.

Hey. Yes. Rob, did you say you made the pre-application? Huh? You have you made the pre-application? Yeah, I have submitted the pre-application to the state historic preservation office. What happens is they'll return comments to me and we'll submit a final uh application by May 1st. Um so it will need to go uh through this commission. We'll need a letter of support um and endorsement and then it will need to go to city council uh for a resolution from city council. Tomorrow's deadline. I don't need that for tomorrow's deadline. I I need that for the May 1 deadline.

Good. All right. And so that's my update. I I suppose just to make things flexible on me, uh if I could get a motion and a second um from this uh commission uh to authorize its chair to sign a letter of support on its behalf uh for this application. Uh I would appreciate that. Thank you. The motion would be to authorize the chair of the commission to sign a letter of support for the application on its behalf. Hi,

thank you. Actually, a comment. Um, is it appropriate at this time to ensure that we have um a braille component on that sign? We're trying to do that with with all our all our signs. Uh I I it it might be a it might be an added, you know, it might get us some brownie points with the application. I don't know, but we we we we're committed to trying to do that with all of our um sign.

Uh that's a wonderful suggestion and we'll uh we'll definitely take note of it. um I I may find a way to include it in the application somehow, but it's also that would be an appropriate um idea to discuss and flesh out as part of that interpretive and design plan um that we'll we'll kick off in the fall hopefully. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, members of the commission, the department has prepared for your consideration a memorandum that updates you on the reassembly of the Essen log cabin. And as you can see from the photographs that are part of the memorandum, progress is being made. The department provided a summary of the steps that have been in place that the steps that have been completed. And if there are any questions regarding the memorandum and its content, Miss Ke and I would be glad to answer them. Thank you. Yes, masons will be at the site tomorrow starting to put the stone. We're working on the the preparation of the foundation walls for the stone. Let me phrase that correctly. I keep asking Mr. McDonald about that and he keeps looking at the weather forecast next week and then keeps telling me it's still winter. So, I'll let you know once I have a better idea.

Thank you all. Have they are they assembling the logs now? Have they gotten the logs? Yes.

And they're I just wonder where they stand on working on repairing them and fixing them up and sorting them out. Has that happened? Yes, Mr. Scott, that's a very good question. So, the beginning of this week on Monday, Mr. McDonald should say one Mr. McDonald's employees and I met with Glen Gaye. They transported the logs on Tuesday at his site. They spent Wednesday and today ordering them based upon where they go on the four walls. They now know what they're missing and they'll spend the better part of tomorrow and what I'm told Monday trying to find the substitute, the Dutchman's to fix the to fill the the gaps, but they have them in the order out at the site ready to go.

I drove up there on my way in, but it was dark. I couldn't see the logs that I knew the foundation was. Yeah, but the logs are there. And uh they as I said they were very um it took a lot great deal of time trying to the the jigsaw puzzle back together. The tagging unfortunately some of the tags have fallen off and the markings on the tag although metal and done with I think a Sharpie or something have worn off over the time due to weather. So

we'll see how it goes. But it's a it's a big jigsaw puzzle and it should be interesting. Thank you. All right, Mr. Chair, uh members of this commission, uh I'm happy to report that we are making substantial uh progress towards our Route 66 uh anniversary celebrations this year. Uh the department and the city administration hosted a uh along with uh businesses of Wildwood hosted a Route 66 roundt lunchon uh for business owners and organizational representatives across the city. Um it was a a very productive discussion. We had I think we had close to 40 attendees in the room and uh we had some really big players there like uh we had Stephanie from Big Chief Roadhouse um was involved um and uh several others uh that were just very important to have in the room. Uh luckily that conversation led to a lot of enthusiasm around a potential Route 66 cruise event in Wildwood and uh the department um has has a few leads now. I'm not going to give you too much detail. Um, but I think we can I think we can make something happen, something pretty big and exciting for the city. Um, maybe with a smaller event uh in this uh in April um towards the end of April and then um a larger whole corridor um event uh in July is what we're thinking at the at the moment. Um so lots of exciting uh activity and planning going on for our events. Um the

very first event that we're planning to host as a city is the Route 66 scavenger hunt uh during the month of April. And uh we'll be using um an app that the city purchased for the year for all of its scavenger hunts. Um, so it'll be a little bit I think a little bit more uh organized or I should say technologically easy for people than perhaps our last um endeavor. Uh but uh we're very excited about our our events coming up and I I think they'll be good. Um in your agenda packet tonight uh I did include the notes from that roundt event. So if you're interested in what discussion took place uh you're certainly welcome to read the notes. Um, we had a lot of great ideas for uh cross promotion and um coordinated promotion of of Wildwood businesses for the Route 66th anniversary. So, um the second item I have tonight um and actually I'm going to go ahead and and promote an individual. So just one moment. I suppose I should ask, are there any questions about what we have going on for the route for the anniversary and city events? All right. The next item tonight then is the Route 66 historic marker. Uh we do have drawings uh produced by Arch Engraving uh in your packets tonight. Um again this is for the alternative design from what we've done in the past um and specifically for the Route 66 marker. Uh this design has uh has the content on the front of the of the marker and then a map on the back that puts the corridor in context with its historic communities and its national register uh landmark Big Chief

Roadhouse. Um, Bill Collier of Arch Engraving is here to answer your questions this evening if you have any questions for him regarding the marker. Um, and it should be noted uh that we also uh still have the opportunity to pursue um a marker in the same design as our as our historic community markers if this commission should choose if this um is not the direction you'd like to go. So, just know that your options are still open. Um, but this is your opportunity um to ask questions about about this design. Um, so at this time, I'll I'll open it up and I'm going to just put on the screen um an image of the marker. Yes, Robin. Um, I don't see the two designed together. So, is this following the design of historic markers are novel location markers? if there was a distinction between we had a special features marker and then we had a another one and I thought the decision reached was that they would be different enough to have people get in the habit of saying oh this is a historic marker over here oh that's a special feature novel place to look at type and they're too different

yes uh council member Mabberry the last action of this commission uh was for us to move forward with an alternative design for the root Route 66 historic marker which is what you see before you. Good. Um so this is uh these are the full set of drawings produced to us uh produced for us by Arch Engraving. Um and um and so this is what that that alternative design would look like. And there will be one of these for the entire length and it's going to be right now our interim basis. That's at big uh big cheap. That's correct. At this time, we're looking at locating this author or this historic marker at Big Chief Roadhouse.

Looks neat. This looks nice.

I have a couple questions. Um, so it looks like on the right side of the map, uh, that's basically Grover or kind of close to the Shnooks Wildwood Plaza on the right side. Yeah. Is that correct? Mhm. And then as you go along, you're you're on what I call Old Manchester Road, but it's on Manchester Road and you get to the Big Chief Roadhouse, and then there's a It continues and there's kind of a a a outer loop there. Yes.

Okay. So, I I mean being from Wildwood, I'm kind of like I need to place where this is at in Wildwood and I I appreciate the design, but I also it's it's hard for me to understand exactly what's being shown. Um, so and then as we as it continues, um, I'm not sure where it ends in Wildwood. Is that the the boundary of Wild Wildwood? Okay. Yes. Uh, so this map is is really a conceptual map. It's it's generally what we show in our Wildwood points of interest map.

Um, but of course in the Wildwood uh points of interest map, uh, you bring up a good point. We also have the whole map of Wildwood there like next to it for reference. Um, so I don't know if we need to add uh like Highway 109 in there or um potentially 100. I'm just not sure how we do it in a in a way that's attractive for the purpose of the marker, but we could certainly look at that.

Okay. I just think it needs a little more reference um in the map as to exactly where it's at in Wildwood. Although I mean I know you're in front of the big chief or near the big chief when you're looking at it, but um if this were to be used possibly in other locations like even at the beginning of the route um if I don't know wild would consider having more than one of these along the route like one at the beginning and one at the end type of thing. But the other option, and we've explored this in the past, um is to uh come up with a a QR code uh that can clip onto the marker, and then perhaps that QR code could take you to a page that has, you know, more of a comprehensive map for those who are trying to use it for navigational purposes. I think the purpose of this map was just to put put a person in context of how long the route is in Wildwood, where the historic communities are, and where Big Chief is. Um, but we don't want to get it overly detailed on the marker because then we start just having too much clutter there. Uh so uh so we can look at potential uh reference points um on the marker itself, but the other option would be a QR code um that could potentially lead to more information than a map.

That sounds fine. I just thought it it maybe a little more reference to packed with references, but a little more. Robin, could I offer a comment? Yes, please.

So, the the idea of the it's probably self-explanatory, maybe not. The idea of the star is sort of a you are here type of a thing. So, we could put a small star at the bottom with the words you are here to make that completely clear to all involved. And and that way if you put one of these elsewhere, we simply would move that star to that location. Robin, we're all just spitballing here. So, another idea taking excellent recommendation from my neighbor.

Um, we we all presumed too much because we've lived here everywhere from 40 years down to 10 years or so. Uh, I thought immediately with that arch showing on the right hand side of the illustration, which is the map side or the back side, that's where you put the historic Route 66 across that crest below the city of Wildwood. And then where the historic Route 66 is now, lower right, that's where that excellent key sheet goes, where it's shown in Phantom at the lower right in this little square that I'm used to seeing when I look at a map like it. Yes, you're referring to a key where we have maybe like the whole city with its primary arterials and we have that uh on our points of interest map. So, it would be a pretty easy thing to shift over to this one.

This little squiggly worm here then shows up as almost the only thing on that little key map and then everybody knows they're in the south um and westerly quadrant of the city. Great idea. I like the idea of the moving star, too, depending on where the signs placed. Um, is it public knowledge how much these little signs go for? Because I've heard a price to know whether or not it's u a return on investment to buy more than one of these signs. One at the Shnooks location, one at Chief Roadhouse, and then one where you start entering Wildwood from Great Summit.

Bill, what was the exact cost that you quoted us for this sign? Well, so the the these are these are made of solid bronze cast on both sides. And so to some extent, we're at the mercy of the bronze price at any given time. But the at the at the day that we uh finalized the design, this this sign with the post and all the hardware and the and everything would have been just just north of $10,000. Now, we often can get a bit of a discount on multiples uh if the if the changes on the artwork are minimal, like moving the star. Um I know one of the things that was considered before I got involved in it, I'm I'm simply an outside vendor, was uh scaling back the the elaborateness of the of the post. So you can see that we've gone with a very plain post and uh and that will help reduce some of the cost as well. But I think all all things considered in this configuration at this size somewhere just north of $10,000 for the first one is is a pretty good ballpark. It's it's probably better than a ballpark estimate of the price. And just for reference, then graphics uh marker would cost uh north of 15,000.

Mr. Chair, if I may. Yes, chair. Does that cost include the optional ornamental base? I'm I'm sorry I didn't catch that. Does the cost you just square root in the ornamental? Yeah, your your voice is fading out at the end of your sentence. I'm sorry.

Ramen, could you please repeat his question for me? Does the qu does the cost you just quoted include the optional ornamental bases? It it does not. What would that add added cost be?

I'm I'm I didn't bring that information with me, but I think it's probably no more than a couple hundred bucks at most. And and and as well, I think hopefully everyone knows this this we're we're planning and anticipating that these would be installed by Wildwood maintenance people. So they would have full control over quality and and the quality of installation and all that sort of thing. So So Arch Engraving would not be installing these Yeah. Um, this is a little bit off the beam, but uh that price is a bit lower than um I recall from our planning and parks meeting talking about signs and um so that's a that's a positive. But uh several members showed no enthusiasm for signs. And in fact, we had one that we had formally committed to um to um Madison Valley as part of the process of renaming Old Slave Road and it was kind of shot down or at least put on hold. And it was part of the objection I think was the expense. And so I'm wondering Joe and Robin if we can maybe g get um if if that's the price maybe we can get, you know, a package deal as he suggested or as was suggested and um revisit that second marker. I don't think I want everybody to know though that there's probably little appetite for adding more markers. We're going to have to live with with this one at at at Big Chief,

at least for now. So, don't get your hopes up. I think they're very coste effective way to participate in the Route 66 celebration and also just long term, it's just great to have historical markers in the in the city. Um, but um I think I'm I'm I don't think I'm in the majority uh of council opinion on that matter any longer. So just be aware that um you know funds are tight and people are trying to be frugal and all those kinds of things. So um so Joe I asked a question in there and then rambled on further um can you comment on that?

Certainly Dr. Bra, as we left the meeting with the planning and park of city council, the direction was proceed forward with a historic Route 66 marker and base the decision on what type on the discussion at tonight's meeting and then the USCT marker would be 2027. So we'll budget as we move but we are going to we are going to do that that second marker. It's just going to be uh uh next year next year.

Okay. But uh my request was to see this price is I thought I was hearing $14,000 for at least one of the markers in the planning and parks meeting. And so that you know at$10,000 that's a I mean that's a significant decrease. And if we can bundle them and get a package deal maybe it's worth revisiting. And I don't want to cause extra work for anybody, but I would just like to see the dang, you know, colored troop marker um uh purchased and and put in place.

Well, I I would think the confirm this that the discounted price would be the same artwork. The fact that you have two signs with I think the main the cost is in the artwork. The fact that they're two different signs with two different artwork, it's still cheaper than Well, yeah, that still looks pretty good. Is there anything there, Joe? I

certainly can ask the gentleman from Arching G to place out the USCT sign and if we were to complete them what the discount would be. And I will caution as Dr. Rambo mentioned it was a difficult discussion with the planning and parks committee with a couple of the members saying this isn't the time to do any sign. So let's take the burden to hand for sure. And and let me let me say again that if if we're talking about the the other sign being a totally different design, I think we're probably looking at each sign standing on its own two feet in terms of price and not being able to do a discount, at least not much of one. But if we had two signs that were almost identical with minimal changes, I think that's when we might be able to do something there. The the other thing I'll I'll throw out there is that if you have some secondary locations for historical markers that maybe are not on the main Route 66 or they're off off in a you know off the road or something. Then, you know, we could do an interpretive type sign like you see at the zoo or in parks which tells the story at a much reduced cost. So, what's the distinction? Is it size of the or or or just how do you um how do you save the money?

Well, that so these are solid bronze and bronze is an expensive metal and it and it's it's done in a in a foundry. So, it's it's quite uh quite elaborate uh a use of material and labor and all the rest. Uh you've all seen the the interpretive signs at the zoo. You know, you'll walk up to the lion cage and there's one at waist high that you can read all about the lions and and so those types of signs and I heard Robin or somebody mentioned something about some of those earlier in this meeting for another location. Um, and that's a that's a thing that we also do. And it's a literally a metal frame on either one or two posts at waist high with a graphic panel that's designed to be out in the weather. And and that's in usually in full color. Uh, lots of detail, some photos, whatever is needed to tell the the story of that location. as opposed to a drive by that, you know, a typical historic marker like we're looking at here in this diagram. So, it's really two different kinds of signs that both tell their tale in in their own way.

Similar size, but it's enamel on some sort of metal or something like that. And so, it's significantly less expensive because of the material choice. Is that is that what I'm hearing? That's right. It's a steel frame with a with a graphic panel as opposed to a cast bronze behemoth like like this. Great. That's worth considering, too. Um, as an alternative, though, but I spend a lot of money. I foolishly, so who don't listen to me. Well, I was just going to say I think if we put one at the beginning and at the end, are those drive by signs because or are those something where people would pull over and read them because you couldn't read this if you're driving by? No, it's just too difficult.

Yeah, you and I think the other signs talking about they're they're walk up and read those signs. It's not right by Oh, there's a historic site,

right? Yes. to that comment. Uh, this commission specifically chose Big Chief Roadhouse because people can park in the parking lot. You know, maybe on the way into the restaurant, they can go over and read the marker and at their leisure and and then go in. Um, so that was that was the idea behind that location. It is intended to be a pull pull over and get out and resign. Oh, no problem.

Um, would we be able to put historic Route 66 at the top above where it talks about Manchester Road? You know, if it is at Big Chief, I can see families wanting photo ops and it it says historical Route 66, you know, bigger letters like it does at the bottom on the back. Yes. I I think that would be an appropriate addition to the front. And the three squares, the Wildwood emblem. No. Um under underneath that like a tight like a title.

Yeah. All of our historic community markers have headlines and so so does the United States Colored Troop marker. So, that is certainly something we can look at potentially adding to this one. Um, to that would be no problem whatsoever. I don't know how everybody feels about, but may I comment what Rob said about uh Matt is it um Madison Valley? I I also agree. I would love to see a sign there. Um, just because all the work you're doing with the trail and everything that's really going to be important in the upcoming years if there's money available.

Yeah. This this bargain priced um sign idea, it may have some legs. I mean, we could do very nice Route 66 sign above and then the interpretive thing below. would catch people's eye and they'll see the Route 66 sign and pull over and it doesn't have to be, you know, 10 grand worth of bronze. It can be two grand worth of metal and last 20 years and and we've achieved the same uh purpose and it's even more colorful. So, I I'm excited about this. You know, I I don't know where we'll go with it, but I think it's worth uh looking into, especially given the support in on this commission for um more Route 66 signs. So worth looking into.

Uh well, it sounds like there are some modifications uh that this group would like to see. Uh and I don't know if they're substantial enough coming back at the next meeting. No. Okay. Then then it looks like the department would respectfully uh request a motion to endorse us moving forward with this historic marker with the um added uh revisions to it, which would include the headline on the front of Route 6, historic Route 66 at the top and uh a key of some kind um similar to the points of interest map on the back uh to give a reference point to where where someone is at as they're looking at it. And could you could we add on um finding out a a price for your chosen design of a a similar Route 66 related sign at each end of the of our stretch of Route 66 as suggested because I don't I mean it sounds like it'd be pretty inexpensive and if we can I mean now's the time to do it now or never. So,

we could certainly look into the cost of the interpretive signage that he is speaking of, but I'm not sure that they would necessarily be wayfinding signs like, you know, marking the beginning and end of the route. Um, it sounds more like they would be, you know, another sign that you would need to get out and access to read it. So, here's what I'm seeing, and I I don't want to belabor this point, but it was suggested that we should have a mark at either end of Route 66. Route 66 signs can be huge. I've got a big one myself. It can say Route 66 and then directly below it, it can have the interpretive sign. That's a that's a that's a similar similarly attractive um and visible marker without the cost associated with a thick piece of bronze. That's what I'm suggesting. If we can I mean it doesn't have to be waist level. It can be any, you know, it can be here's the interpretive sign and you know, I guess size is not, you know, it's we're not limited in size. So, it could be a pretty decent sign that says Route 66. I'm just spitballing here and maybe it's not maybe it's nobody else thinks it's a good idea, but um

you can put the Route 66 shield above it. Yes. Yes, that's right. Uh the department can certainly uh work with Arch Engraving to look at potential options for what you're suggesting and bring it back. Yeah, we'd love we'd love to help you with that.

Mr. Chair, if I may, I would ask that we separate the motion for the Route 66 bronze sign and then Dr. Rambo, as soon as that motion is acted upon, whether favorably or not, then make a motion for us to do the analysis for the interpretive signs and bring that back at the near the the earliest meeting possible. I will do that. Uh just that. Thank you. Make a motion as Joe presented it. everything they said. Any second. Second.

All in favor? I

with that. That's right. Now we got to go to Joe's.

Get it done. Get it done. So I will with this gig right here. I will make the motion as Joe suggested concerning the the larger version of the interpretive site.

All in favor? I any nays objections? Thank you. Motion pass. And don't forget to ask for honorary votes as well so I can get those recorded in the minutes. Yes. Thank you.

All right. Thank the gentlemen to the Oh, yes. Uh thank you uh Bill for joining us this evening. We appreciate it. It was my pleasure and thank you all for uh for your time and attention. Thanks. Thank you.

Okay. St. Louis Area History Showcase participation. Okay, Mr. Chair, members of this commission, I'll make this relatively brief because uh this commission did endorse us moving forward. Well, I don't know if I I if I had a a motion in a second. So, actually, I might ask this commission to go ahead and formally endorse our participation in the St. Louis area showcase, uh, which will be held on June 6th at Jefferson Barracks Park. It's being hosted by, uh, St. Louis County Parks, um, or the Department of Parks and Recreation and, uh, the regional um, regional St. Louis history organizations uh, group. Uh this is our chance to uh collaborate with the greater history community um and make some new friends as well as uh bring Wildwood's history his historic preservation presence um to the greater region um versus containing it to our city. Uh so I envision that our participation will look very much like Celebrate Wildwood. I did reach out to the organization uh organizers and I told them we typically have three tents and a lot of display items. Um it is an all day event similar to celebrate Wildwood. Uh so basically I want to prepare you uh for what this is going to entail because it's going to be another h all hands on deck type of event where

I am going to need a lot of participation from commissioners from volunteers u from former commissioners whoever would like to join us that day um and talk about historic preservation and Wildwood. It's also an opportunity to promote some of our Route 66 events and other initiatives um you know that we're going to be really wanting regional partners for later in the year like the African-American Heritage Trail Project. Um I'm envisioning two to threehour shifts um depending on the feedback from this commission. Um and you can sign up for one, you can sign up for two, you can work there all day. I just need uh generally uh four bodies at least uh per um shift at the tent. So at this time the department would respectfully request a formal motion. I think the chair mo uh volunteered on your behalf at the last meeting. Um but let's go ahead and make this a group endeavor um to for our participation in the St. Louis area history showcase. Um and then just note that I'll be sending out emails and getting you to sign up. uh for shifts very shortly. Thank you.

Um I think this is a great way to get our message out in front of other people in this area. I think it's a great idea, but what other organizations would be there? Do you have any idea at this point what what type of organizations we'd be alongside of there? I I mean, I'm sure it's going to be a full range of of organizations throughout the region. Um, I'm sure there'll be other city commissions like ours, um, historical societies, um, cultural organizations, maybe museums, u might have a presence there, um, reenactment groups, um, just anything related to history and culture in the area.

Organizations like that, not necessarily businesses or Uh yeah, I think it's focused more on history and cultural organizations, nonprofit organizations rather than Yes. I I would I would envision it as a giant history fair for the St. Louis area. What will be there? Make a I am make a motion for Wildwood participation in the St. Louis area history showcase. Yes. Okay.

Thank you. All in favor? We need a second. Second. Okay. Thank you. All in favor? I I opposed. Yes. Thank you. I didn't even know we did that. Did we get the honorary vote? Did you say

sounds like we have enthusiastic participation? I appreciate it. I'll be sending out emails um as we get closer, but please do mark your calendars and save this date and plan to participate um for at least a couple hours. Um that would be uh very much appreciated. Robert,

I see nowhere on here where you booked the uh the two separate 1-hour uh downpours of rain through the middle of this. Uh we will be uh planning our you know contingency plan this year and having like a plastic tub or something there just in case we need to throw everything in there at the last minute. Uh we do learn from um from prior experiences. Thank you though.

2025 works plan work program update.

All right, Mr. chair, members of this commission. Uh I'll touch on the the master plan. Uh the citizen oversight group met uh just this past Wednesday uh to finalize the economic development element of the master plan. I'm happy to report they decided Route 66 revitalization was a good addition to it. Uh so u we're we're infiltrating the master plan. Sorry. um little by little here through that effort. Um the next um at their next meeting uh the citizen oversight group will be me will be discussing the transportation element and moving into the land use element and hearing specific uh cases for making adjustments to um the conceptual land use categories of the master plan. Um, so if you have any questions regarding that item, if not, I'll move forward. It looks like we've touched on many of my other updates. Um, yes. So, at this time, the department will just respectfully ask if there is any question you have about any item that's currently listed on our work program. Um, uh, please ask it at this time and we'll we'll try to answer it.

If not, doesn't appear there, we can move forward. I'm not ready for action. the National Underground Railroad Network. Uh well, we typically um if it's under not ready for action, it means we're not ready to talk about it.

We're in new business. Okay. Uh well we can we we are ready to talk about the proposed uh 2026 work program that uh it's under new business. Okay.

All right. Mr. chair. Um members of this commission, uh you may remember that we deferred uh the proposed 2026 work program item uh to this meeting uh from the last meeting because we were running a little long and we wanted to spend some time on this. Um and perhaps the reason we didn't have too many questions about 2025 is because we're ready to move into 2026. Uh so I would ask you all to find this in your agenda packets uh because I don't have a presentation for you tonight and I just like to touch on uh some of the newer items um that we're adding to the proposed work program um for your endorsement. Um so of course we'll we'll continue to work towards completion of our citywide uh preservation plan for the city of Wildwood. That's still number one on our list. and we're continuing to participate in the city of Wildwood's master plan update and make sure that historic preservation goals and action items are integrated into it. Uh we're very excited to start the reconstruction of the Esenlong cabin uh which includes um bringing the logs to Village Green. Um, and we're continuing to pursue listing of relevant sites to the National Underground Railroad Network to Freedom program, which now um, particularly includes the Mount Pleasant Baptist Church and Cemetery site. So, we're still finishing that nomination process um because the other site has been designated. Uh number five on this list is to continue to plan and begin executing activities for Route 66 100th anniversary celebration in Wildwood. Um as noted earlier, we are in full swing. Um, okay. So, the biggest new item on this list, and we've already talked about it at length, is we are developing

and executing a planning process for an African-American heritage uh trail along the existing Monarch Chesterfield levy trail in Northern Wildwood. And that's why we've submitted an application for a grant. Uh we're continuing to explore partnership opportunities and incentives to potentially preserve and restore the JP Connell House. Uh we're completing additional research and website development content uh relevant to the United States Colored Troops historic marker. Um and it looks like we may change we may make a change to that item and put 2027 um versus 2026 for uh installing the marker and hosting an unveiling ceremony for it. Number nine, implement a process for the recruitment of one additional youth member. Uh we are uh currently in the process of that and I'll discuss that in the next item. Number 10, research and develop a proposed city administered grant program supporting property maintenance, rehabilitation, and restoration projects for historic buildings, particularly those located along Route 66. Uh while the anticipated funding to be allotted to the program has been delayed, uh we do believe it would be um beneficial to go ahead and get all the program components in place uh so that we have something uh formal to propose when we when the funding is there. Uh number 11, we are attending the National Alliance on Preservation Commission's uh forum event this year in Minneapolis. Uh we did receive a grant from the historic uh preservation uh state historic preservation office to do so. Um so that will be a big big event for us this year in July. Number 12, pursue additional memorial

tribute program nominations. Uh the department is proposing uh that we do these nominations on a spring fall cycle where maybe we do um some of our uh like more of our lower level recognitions um sustaining members um uh as an example in the spring and then our champions of history recognitions in the fall. Um it's just a suggestion um so that we're just constantly thinking of of of the next time we're going to recognize someone. Um does that I I guess the department would respectfully ask for feedback on that particular item. Does that make sense? having a bianual cycle for memorial tribute recognitions. I think um as someone who has received this, it's really cool. It's lots of fun. But if you and if you do it twice a year, you know, in the different categories, it's an opportunity to have it out in the public that this is a continual thing going on. that the more times we make it known that we're recognizing people or events or things like that there there will be more opportunity to have more people join us in this in this process of work um and recognition and the more recognition the more people talk about it and so I think it feeds on itself so I think that

two times a year would be a good thing. Spring, we've got something new to look forward to in the fall. It's it's just a nice but it's the PR part of it. It's it's the it's that drive so that you kind of have to do something all the time. It's like launching a book. You can't just launch it and let it die. You have to keep on working it to the point where it sustains itself. So that's where the city history book is right now. It is almost to the point that it will in a couple of years it will sustain itself but until then I find different markets to send it to. I find other people to talk to just you and wider outside of Wildwood so that it is recognized on a national level and that feeds back here. So it's the same kind of thing with our programs. We have to keep it out in the general public that they realize what we're doing and why we're doing. The why is the biggest part. And I think the other reason between splitting it into two different um times of year is just so you don't have a champion of history recognition next to a sustaining member recognition. It just makes it more meaningful to both parties and no one's overshadowing Yes. Well, okay. much less its nominations. Um, is there uh is there a PDF that can be forwarded

so that we can uh become uh aware of what we'd like to make a motion on?

Council member Mabberry. Uh the department would be happy to uh share uh a PDF application and overview of the program with you. Uh there's also a web page on the Historic Preservation Commission's website that I can link and send out in an email to commission members um that uh has some of our previous uh recognitions. Um uh Miss Von Gubin has a biography on the page and um Paul uh will help me. Yes. Uh his u biography is on the page as well and it describes the program. Um, so I'll I'll go ahead and send out some information and we can revisit revisit this item at a future meeting. Um, I just wanted to hear hear a little feedback. Thank you. Um, I would just say as as part of the promotion is is to maybe get it in the Wildwood Gazette or or you know things like that so that people know are aware that it's coming up and and what the um what the criteria is for you know getting that award those awards. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you. Great. Number 13, uh pursue partnership and involvement in the preservation of Westland Acres. Uh the reason the department listed this on our work program this year is there is a development um that's been proposed for Westland Acres. Um the process for it has begun in the city of Chesterfield. Director Vunich, have have we received an application yet? Okay. The city of Wildwood has still not received an application regarding it. However, once we do, um I anticipate that this commission will be involved in that process um given the historical nature of that area and um that it is a local

local history uh historic district in Wildwood. Uh number 14, uh we've spoken um to the city of attorney and have confirmed um that this commission could amend the historic preservation and restoration ordinance and the commission's bylaws uh to permit residents outside the city of Wildwood, but with significant ties to it, such as business ownership, generational roles, property owners, etc. to serve on the historic preservation commission. And the reason this came up is because we had several very good candidates uh for commission this year from the business community, from the Westland Acres community. Um but the candidates were disqualified because um they either didn't live in Wildwood anymore but had significant ties and property to the area or they owned a business in Wildwood but didn't weren't necessarily residents of Wildwood. Um so we believe that it's to this commission's benefit to have those types of uh representatives um in its makeup and uh so the department is proposing that we do pursue a ch a change to um to the HPC's uh foundational ordinance uh to allow for such any any comments. Okay, I'll go. You need a motion

before you move. My comment is my my observation has always been that people who live in an area invested in the area and if what you're looking for is expertise, we can go searching for expertise. Uh but I generally do not think it's a good idea to uh encourage people who don't live in the area to join the commission. That's one opinion. Just my Mr. Mayor, I would ask that you hold your motion. This is a work program item. There needs to be some additional discussions with the city attorney, with the mayor and others, and then bring back something to you and in written form so you can react to it. Thank you.

Uh it that's good if it's not ready for prime time. The one thing of taking the last comment which strikes me is very poignant, very applicable is a nonvoting um auxiliary role as we have other alternates um to to I was going to say suck their expertise but I didn't say that to to garner their expertise but without having them um having voting influence in uh in the city's business.

Mr. Mayberry, we could certainly look at that as part of that research and then bring back a discussion on that item and any others that might be pertinent to making a informed decision. Thank you. Thank you.

Yes. Um, so it should be clarified that at this time all of these are work program items. That means anything on here is something we're working towards and it means all that all that discussion is going to happen as part of that work. Um, number 15, uh, partner with Christopher Smith, owner of 909 Old State Road to promote the deconstruction and rec relocation of a 1908 historic barn as an example of historic preservation activities in Wildwood. Um, and number 16, uh, add additional properties to the Wildwood Historic Register and plan their historic plaque dedication ceremonies as desired and appropriate. Um, and it should be noted that the department has received two such applications which are on the agenda tonight and is anticipating a third submitt as well. Um, so it does look like we'll have quite a few of these uh this year and we'll need to take it through that process which is um, fairly lengthy and involved. Uh we still have a few inactive projects on the work program as well. Uh we continue to archive documents from the city's incorporation um from donations that we've received. Um number two, complete repair work along the frontage of Comb Park and then install park identification signage. Number three, pursue the potential preservation of Mount Pleasant Baptist Church and Cemetery. Number four, uh, pursue National Register of Historic Places eligibility assessments and nominations where opportunities are present. And five, complete a phasing plan for the Route 66 roadside park project. So, these these items are considered inactive. We're not actively pursuing them, but we wanted to keep it on our radar um for potentially in the future when opportunities

present. Um so that is the proposed work program um uh from the department this evening. Um at this time we would ask if there are any um additions, changes, deletions um that you would like to recommend um before we ask for an endorsement for moving forward.

Mr. I have a suggestion. Many of these work program items are things that we've talked about over the past year and multiple years. What I would suggest is we take an action on the work program. So we have the work program in place for 2026, but acknowledge that as we complete the historic preservation plan, some of these might change and there might be additions. This has happened for several years. Oh, they just keep getting moved down the line and it will continue that they need a motion.

Uh, yes, please. If there are no if there are no further comments or revisions suggested, then we would respectfully request an endorsement or motion to move forward with this or adopt this work program as a commission. We have a motion to adopt the work program as present.

Second comment. All those in favor I opposed and youth. Yes.

All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, members of this commission. Uh at our last meeting, uh you endorsed uh the third-year um appointment of uh Commissioner Raggi Ramen as a youth member. Um however, we noted that uh Commissioner Boore will be leaving us at the end of her term uh because she is graduating from high school and moving on to greater things. Uh so because she is abdicating her seat uh we are needing to recruit a new youth commissioner for the historic preservation commission. Uh so uh the department has been busy on this front. Uh I emailed all of the high school um all of the high school and the eighth grade social studies teachers in the area including private schools and including the homeschool organizations about a month ago. Um, I I emailed them again recently and Rockwood School District, um, the communications department picked it up and put out a blast to the entire school district. Uh, so we're hoping that we'll get quite a few um, applications. Uh, we are going to start advertising the position in the Wildwood e newswsletter. Um, and we've already advertised it in the upcoming edition of the Gazette. Um we have displayed flyers and applications at city hall and by and we have a a web page devoted to the position on the city website. Um by the end of tomorrow I hope to have flyers also available at the YMCA, at the lo local grocery store, at the local libraries um and and start a social media post as well. Um so we are moving along.

Hopefully we'll get a good crop of uh candidates and our youth recruitment committee uh which consists of chair quarterick and our vice chair Larson uh will be interviewing uh with us uh at the department in April. Any questions at this time? It sounds like you've hit all the bases. The only thing I might suggest because Mayor Garitano does get a lot of traction with his videos that perhaps he might want to interview one of our honorary participants on why someone should be interested in joining us.

That is a that is a wonderful idea. What do you want my job? I think it's a good idea. Would you like to be such a an interviewee? Yeah. All right. Well, we'll work to set something up. Thank you. All right. And that concludes that item. Thank you. Okay. So, move on to the review of proposed zoning plats, site development plans, and demolition report.

Mr. Chair, the department has prepared for the commission's consideration tonight a memorandum relating to the moratorum that is in place relative to the demolition of historic assets in the city of Wildwood. There are four applications for waiverss that have been submitted and are compliant to the requirements of the moratorum ordinance for consideration by city council. These considerations will occur on March 9th at the next city council meeting. Several of these you are familiar with. Center Avenue is probably the one that may not um jog your memory. That is a small out building that is part of a residential property. The residential property is being subdivided into a new town center residential development. The outbuilding will be on one of the new lots. The others have all been reviewed at some stage by the Historic Preservation Commission. And at the bottom of the list is the JP Connell House. The department will prepare recommendation reports regarding all four of the requested waiverss. And again you are invited if you would like to come to the city council meeting and speak during public participation which is the public hearings and add any comments you would like. If there are any questions regarding the moratorum waiver process or any of these four locations please miss Kee and I would be glad to try to answer them at this time. Thank you. move on to other matters consideration.

Um, Mr. Chair, I believe there's still two more items under that category. Sorry, photographs and videos.

All right, Mr. Chair, members of the commission, I'm going to stay at my seat for this one because I have quite a few items to pull up on the share screen. Uh, but as you may recall, uh, this commission visited, uh, 909 Old State Road, um, at the beginning of January. I met with, uh, the owner, the new owner of a property with a historic barn on it. Um, this barn was built, according to him, in 1908. Um and uh the historic dwelling and a couple other buildings had actually been removed just a couple years prior after a house fire. Um but anyway, uh at the at the site visit, this commission um the owner informed this commission that the plan uh for the barn was to actually deconstruct it and reconstruct it on a friend's property in Jefferson County. and he offered to provide time-lapse videos and other footage to the commission um to help promote uh this alternative um to our demolition uh um project that he was doing. Um so tonight uh he has supplied uh a number of time-lapse videos to the department. It seems that the department or that the barn has already come down um in the last month. Um they did take footage of the deconstruction. Um it turns out uh that the side panels of wood were only 20% salvageable uh with a good portion of the structure rotted and not usable. However, his friend uh does have a sawmill at his property and so he's able to um cut new wood for the reconstruction of the barn. So, they're still moving forward with

the project and he's looking at um and he's working with that friend to potentially have a time-lapse video for the reconstruction of the building as well so that we have um both phases of the project. Um, so tonight I can show you a couple videos. Um, hopefully it will show okay because I've I've noticed that videos haven't had the greatest quality when shared on Zoom, but we'll give it a whirl. Okay. So, we'll optimize for video sharing. Share So I think because of the file size uh there are a number of these uh Miss Keef, I have a question for you.

Sure. My memory perhaps is incorrect, but I thought that at some point we were told he didn't submit his application for demolition before the moratorum took a vote. or was that Maple Evan? Did I am I confusing the two? I will defer to director Vunich on this particular matter.

My understanding and again we'll double check that the application had been filed prior to the council acting on the moratorum and it becoming effective. As you know, with many of our ordinances, it's a matter of two readings, which entails in some instances up to two months. So, I'll double check that, but obviously, if we missed that, that's a major error. My apologies to the commission.

I think it was something that was inevitable and had to happen. But when we did visit this site, it was apparent that a lot of work had been done that shouldn't have been done, should not have been done prior to following the proper procedures. But I am grateful that they're able to use these materials elsewhere to the extent they are salvageable. Has there been any comment or feedback from the residents in the area about removal of this barn? Just out of curiosity. Any objections? I noticed myself it was a terribly busy corner and it was frightful trying to make a left turn out of there. Um so maybe perhaps people were actually glad to see it gone but um well we did hear this matter at the board of adjustment um and I don't believe the barn ever came up. Uh I think generally the sentiment was positive about moving

forward with a single family dwelling on the lot. Um the there were some concerns about what he was requesting which was to put a temporary storage container on the lot uh prior to construction. Uh but most people were largely supportive of it as long as he met certain criteria which um which the board of adjustment was able to do as part of its action. Um, but as far as the barn, um, I don't remember hearing any comments specific barn. Will we be seeing a video of what they, you know, erect on this other site?

Uh, yes. Mr. Smith expressed interest in working with his friend to do a time lapse video for the reconstruction of the barn as well. Um, I don't know how feasible that will be, but I I know he's interested in in giving us the other side of the story. Um, also, so does this become archive information then? At this point,

I think the idea is to wait until the reconstruction and then maybe we can do some social media um engagement um with the whole project, the deconstruction of the barn and then the reconstruction of it on the friend's property and then be be able to, you know, do an educational piece for the community is is my thought. Um but if there's any feedback from this commission or ideas, we'd certainly welcome them. Move on. Proposal for the preservation of the JP channels. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the plan planning and zoning commissioning. It is a land use issue. Mr. Chair and members of the Historic Preservation Commission, department has prepared for your consideration a recommendation report regarding a proposed incentive package that would be conditioned on the adoption of the historic land use category for this particular property. I do want to note that I appreciate the commission's action at the January meeting where it delayed taking a formal and final action on the proposal from the property owner relative to the preservation of JP Connell House. Obviously that action carried risk with it and those risk um obviously have come to fruition as you can see with the application of a demolition permit and a waiver request to our city council. This is a difficult proposal in many regards because the property owner has

requested certain zoning incentives that are very contrary to the existing land use pattern that has developed in the area as well as what our current master plan land use category in anticipates for the development of this site. However, as the report notes near its conclusion, the loss of the Mary Cliff residents was very difficult for many in the city and certainly a loss to the larger historic preservation community. The lesson that the department took from the loss of the Mary Cliff residents was that oftentimes standing on the sidelines and trying to marshall action is not necessarily the same as taking action and taking action by the city. From that perspective, the historic preservation commission has been given three options by the property owner. The first when this particular discussion was introduced to the commission, property owner um requested that the JP Connell House be placed on the smallest size lot possible to reduce the tax burden associated with it and then use the remaining acreage for pasture for his cattle grazing. Shortly thereafter, as the discussion matured, the property owner came back and for the most part said he would like at least four 1acre lots, one of which would be the location of the JP Connell House, and then the remaining 10 plus acres be designated for future multiple family development. That's the proposal we discussed at length at the January 2026 meeting.

Subsequently, Miss Keefe and I met with the property owner this week and the proposal had matured some from his perspective. Not only was he still seeking the R6A designation for the majority of the site to accommodate a multiple family development, he did say that a commercial or light industrial use might be acceptable. Now from your all's perspective that may seem even a worst case scenario than an apartment complex which is residential in nature but I would note that Kelp Contracting has a facility on the north side of St. Alvin's Road and the particular property that we're discussing is on the south side of St. Alvin's Road. So there is already in many ways an industrial pattern that's been established in the vicinity and been in place for approximately 50 years. The three options obviously are are difficult as presented by the property owner and the property owner has made it clear that it's an expensive proposition to ensure the property to secure it and then ultimately restore it and put it into active reuse. From the perspective of the department, it is proposing an incentive package. That in package is identified on page three of the department's report to the commission. It is broken down into three components. The first, if the incentive package is solely residential in nature, the 4acre portion where the JP Connell House would be located would be limited to the R1 1acre resident district zoning designation, meaning that approximately

four lots could be developed in that portion of the property that is immediately abuing St. Alins's Road. The department went on to establish that although four lots one acre in size could be considered, they the placement of improvements on the three other lots notwithstanding the JP Connell house would have to take into account the historic nature and not negatively influence it. Meaning placing the houses the other homes houses in such close proximity that the historic character of the property and the vegetation trees associated would associated with it would be damaged. The 10acre portion then would be recommended to be a one R1A halfacre resident district. Meaning that potentially on 10 acres 20 additional home sites with homes could be accommodated. All told on the 14 acres 24 dwellings and lots would be accommodated. One of which would be the JP Connell House. Conversely, if commercial or light industrial, the overall 14 acre site would be designated commercial or an appropriate light industrial use with the dwelling being able to be a component of it, i.e. an office. We have that at kelp contracting. The farmer single family residence is their office and the storage yard is um the remaining portion of the property. Suffice to say, kelp contracting has been a long-standing business and there is a lot of equipment and materials and all kinds of stuff on the lot. Wouldn't usually wouldn't necessarily say that is

what you'll see here because as part of any of this incentive package, a resoning process exists. Mr. Guru at our January 2026 meeting acknowledged that and that our requirements would be applied and those requirements are stringent in many regards include screening, landscaping, lighting, sound as well as architectural review. Overall, any incentive package would relieve the property owner of any fees associated with the historic designation process. It would rewave all fees relating to this zoning and subdivision actions as part of the incentive package. It would wave traffic generation assessment fees which are a one-time collection of a charge based upon the provided number of parking spaces. And then the commission would advocate the use of the overlay or plan district so as there's a guarantee that the specifics of the development of the site are controlled by a single ordinance tailored to that site and that's a key component of any action that we take as a city in the town center area. In summary, it would allow potentially 24 homes on individual lots, one of which is the JP Connell House, or a type of activity, land use that is not residential in nature. it would wave a certain amount of fees and collections and for the most part um allowed the property owner to be in a position

hopefully to invest in the JP Cunnel House, restore it to its past condition and use it or reuse it for an active use that would continue to allow it to be maintained well into the future. The department concludes by saying that there are probably a range of questions that would exist. How do we guarantee the restoration of the JP Connell House? How do we ensure it's reused and does not sit idle? How do we make sure that all of the requirements that we would establish as part of any development proposal are met? All of those are very good questions for the purposes of tonight and to proceed forward with some idea of is this a solution or not. Those questions will have to wait as we get further into the discussion. But tonight the department is offering you two components of land use as incentives and then other components relating to fees, charges, escros and etc. With that, the department will conclude its presentation and accept any questions or comments from the commission members. Thank you.

I'm certain the report isn't that good. So, let's hear what you're thinking. Just curious the estimate of the dollar benefit of the incentives. Pardon, sir. The estimate of the dollar benefit of the all the incentives put together. Rough.

You'll be relatively surprised. The cost of our zoning and subdivision actions are per in the vicinity of about $300 per application. There are some additional charges for the number of houses, but it's $50. So, at 23, it's approximately another thousand. The traffic generation assessment fee based upon a residential component is about $1,600 per space. Most homes are required three spaces. So, we're talking about $5,000 a home. So, the cost then escalates there. And from the perspective of um the um the designation for historic district, many instances, we don't even collect the fee because we're advocating for the action, not necessarily against it. But there is a there is a a nominal fee. All told, it could be in the range of anywhere from about 30 to $40,000 when you take into account the traffic generation assessment fee. So, it's real money here. Uh I don't know whether in some circles of harder business to make a motion and then ask questions. I'd like to know if we can get director is it also protocol and commission basis to be um in a position to ask a lot of questions that culminate in a motion.

Um typically what the planning and zoning commission has done when there is a controversial or unusual petition before it. They'll make a motion to discuss and then there'll be a second and voice move thereafter. After discussion concludes then a formal motion relative to action can then be taken. I'd like motion to discuss the living daylights out of this. I second that. And making that motion. Uh do we vote or do we then discuss? Simple voice vote on the motion is all that's necessary. Hi. Hi.

Thank you, chair. Uh whether it's a curse or a blessing having served on St. County Planning and Zoning Commission for 4 and a half years at um the unfortunate time of the early 90s 89 to 94 when exactly the types of um proposals being made, developments being put together and then approved by St. Louis County when this was still just far west county very seldom ever traveled to by anyone else in St. Louis County. Um we see the product of those actions and those development on our city and I saw that within a year and a half of building and moving out here um it was somehow decided by St. Louis County that I should be commissioned as a commissioner by whatever activity or actions um I had participated in or cause and I am taking exactly that history and applying it to a real long study of this of what this is. This is this could be considered really very bad or it could be considered just very very difficult to decide. I'm going to pick the latter, but I'm very highly opinionated on this. Really would like to hear a whole lot of other people's opinions um without clouding up the room with a whole bunch of my opinions from 30 years ago. But I'll be glad to give it my all because I've got some really strong ideas that I think work that I think protect the city first of all that that every action I've ever taken is safety

for the city first. I don't care about cost. I don't care about others profit. I really care about responsible zoning and responsible development. Didn't see a whole lot of that 35 years ago. But everything I've seen after our city's incorporation, which coincidentally was about a year after um I left the commission, has been the right way that my wife and I saw this city should grow up. Now it's grown up that way. It won't be the same if this proposal is approved by the council in any close manner, shape or form to what the petitioner had originally proposed. And I really compliment the department on the creativity it took to take this pile of um bad proposal and try and salvage one shred of insanity to it. They haven't they haven't reached that bar for me yet. I just wonder how is the commission I'm just a leazison from the council that's clouded up with a lot of this experience from the past. So, I agree with you, Commissioner Mabberry, that um the initial proposal was a plan without a plan. It was a blink check,

and there's no way we could have agreed to that. And I do applaud you for making efforts to come up with a plan. Thank you.

But I also don't think this is an incentive. It's a concession. Mr. Guru bought purchased that property knowing the JP counter house was on on the property. He claims it to be a great liability that he cannot insure. Anything can be insured if you have if if you're willing to pay the money. He knew that when he purchased it. And he's using that asset as a sword against the city to get what he wants to flip the property and to make to make a killing essentially for a lack of a better term. If he were to demolish that property, what does he have? He has what? Enough for four for four houses. That's it. So, it's in his interests to keep that property, to keep the JP Connell House in good condition, at least as it is, to maintain it as it is, to not demolish it, and to continue to work with the city. So to divide that property into these tiny little lots if somebody wanted a halfacre lot live in the city not in the country we are in the country and a historic asset is not an asset if you ruin the provenence and that's exactly what will happen. I don't want to hear mention of kelp and how light industrial compliments kelp because kelp it's my understanding is only there because it was grandfathered in the trees the topography and the trees and how it would shield that's only true for so many months of the year when I go buy kelp now even though it sits on a plateau above 100 I see all of that industrial equipment do I want to see that on St. Albins. No. Do the people on

St. Albins want to see that? Heck no. So, I would say while I appreciate the effort, there is still more effort to be made. Do I want to be in your shoes? No. Absolutely not. Um, but the way it sits right now, there is no way that I could agree with the current incentive plan. Thank you. From the department's perspective, certainly fashioning something that would strike the appropriate balance is probably a iterative process. And in many ways, I feel the department's provided you the optimum proposal from the property owner's perspective. I'm counting on the planet, sorry, the historic preservation commission to tamp down where the department may have gone too far or not far enough in terms of potential restrictions. I will say that the design of the 4 acre 10 acre split is premised on that drainage tributary that by sex the property in an east west direction and creates those two components. So I'm less worried about the 4 acres to the north side of that tributary and abudding St. Alvin's road because there is a natural buffer. It's a heavily wooded buffer and from the perspective of the department, if the commission and the department and other boards and commissions do their job, I think we can site additional homes on one acre lots and preserve the character of the JP Connell.

The 10acre is the one that's the fly in the ointment. And I think your frustration and not in a bad way relative to how we save this I think one of a kind asset um is justified because is light industrial or some commercial entity the best case scenario there? No. that I fall back on again that we lost the Mary Cliff residence for all intents and purposes after a year of kind of surrounding the issue, never really tackling the true component of it, which was if we if we're going to have save it, we're going to have to do something that maybe is a little uncomfortable for the city. And I guess that's what I'm telling you today. I think that might be a little bit a little more than just a little uncomfortable. Um I think that's an understatement. Is there any possibility since there is a natural divide between the property that he might be willing to divide it himself? What by the way whatever happened to the idea? What happened to those four cattle that he had intended? He that question was asked. He never answered it. think from our conversation that Miss Keef and I had with him at the beginning of the week as step back if an incentive package is devised adopted by the city and ultimately there's a there's a framework for development while that is being marketed. He'll put his cattle on the property and as long as it takes to market the project, have an owner under contract, go through the process with zoning with the HPC planning and zoning commission and city council. It'll be used for pasture, but

eventually the cattle will be removed and the project would move forward. Well, you're going to hear this question, so you might as well hear it from me. If if light industrial were to go in because it complements kelp, that's how you justify it. Then he also owns 150 acres almost directly across 100. So will that then become another major development, dense development or more light industrial because it now complements the JP count site now complements what he's proposing on the other 150 acres. We're talking about an entrepreneur. Entrepreneur

certainly. And I'll be the first to admit that the historic land use category of the master plan is probably the the least applied and most unknown because it's only been used in a couple of instances and the principal instance is Westland Acres. there that particular community African-American historic community was designated non-urban residential area. So from the owner's perspective in Westland Acres, if there's let's say 52 acres in Wildwood, do the math. It's 24 lots. That's too many. Sorry. Do the math Joe. It's one 16 17 lots. to accommodate what at that time city council thought was an appropriate approach with the development entity proposing the project. We basically designated Westland Acres a historic district under the fifth land use category historic and we gave them oneacre zoning which is consistent with all around it highlands at wildest wild horse subdivision the different villages it's all one one acre density with an overlay district we applied it on a small property for commercial purposes um not very controversial And so it's not been used a lot. So I guess what I'm saying is it is not it is not intended to create a pattern. It's intended to address the outliers that have a historic asset that's worth the risk.

and 150 acres that's vacant, 150 acres with a dilapidated home that meets 75 years of age or older. I don't think it I don't think it meets the muster. It wouldn't meet the Department of Planning's muster. I don't think Miss Keef and I would be standing up here and saying, "Oh, the house on Maple Avenue, the one you all visited, that's worth saving and that's worth the application of the historic land use category." No, this is because when I look at our in inventory or in the individual surveys, there's maybe a dozen buildings or structures. They vary in size from JP Connell to the Law Institute that I think we need to go all in on if we're going to try to save them.

We have we have no commitment from Mr. grew that he will invest and restore the home. And that's part of that there's a that's a great question and uh if if you were to say tonight this is the appropriate set of incentives residential commercial industrial the other components then those were the questions we would start with very shortly thereafter and a true plan something on paper but um

how can we agree to one without a commitment to the there. And if that is the direction from the commission tonight, that's the direction Miss Keep and I'll take back to Mr. Guru. There is a potential incentive package out there that this commission would endorse, but not without more information. Yeah, if you're looking at me to um speak, um everybody up here is dying to save this house. We've established that beyond uh any any doubt. Um uh 24 homes on it's 12 acres, right? That site is roughly 12 acres.

14 just over 14 acres.

Okay, that changed things a little bit, but um um 24 homes on 14 acres. There's not a single person in Western Wildwood that would support that notion. It's just um it would it would be highly visible and it just it's it does not fit that area at all. But um what I wanted to say is about 10 years ago I bought 5 1/2 acres adjacent to my it was part of my grandmother's family's farm and I added it to my own family farm because you get up there a few generations and it's the same family. And so, um, uh, it had a dilapidated house, um, that needed knocking down and, um, uh, I paid $50,000, 5 1/2 acres because that house was a liability and it it, you know, took some knocking down and so on and so forth. But, um, my point is, real estate has not skyrocketed in my area. I'm less than a mile from that location. my land is more desirable. It lays better. It's more private. It doesn't have a road on each side of it and so on and so forth. And so I if we're talking about 50 grand for 5 acres a mile west, maybe 50 grand for a for 3 acres in a in a um a less desirable area with a house that's fallen down anyway can be spun as this is a public good. we'll give you X dollars for this, you know, for three acres and a home and you still have 11 acres and we can figure out something to do with that. You can still build, you know, what three and a half homes on 11 acres or whatever our

our building allow. So, I'm suggesting that maybe it's worth even offering to pay for the appraisal, which would be probably less than a,000. I don't know how much I, you know, I've paid for a number of appraisals over the years. they go. Sometimes it's $300 and sometimes it's $3,000, but we could offer to have that appraised and presume that it's three acres even though it's not subdivided. And um maybe we can maybe we can, you know, find a way to just buy it and take us off his hands. The questions would be can the city afford to insure it? Can we find out some you know actual price for insurance and those kinds of things? and he claimed it would be 50k to stabilize it. Maybe that's the right number. So, we're talking $150,000 to preserve a um you know, one of the most unique assets that we have left in our potential city inventory of you know, architectural gems. And so, I I again, that's more work for the department. If there's no if there's no interest in doing that or if it's a stupid idea, please tell me. But I just think it's worth, you know, asking the question cuz 24 lots, 24 homes there is not going to fly no matter, you know, even if even if it helps to preserve JP house, it just won't do it. That's my opinion.

My question is it's not a very desirable residential site. Yeah, it's it's really not. It's it's not by way all the time. It's across from Kelp. I mean, more power to him. He do his business. he's he's entitled to do it, but it's not the most desirable place to have a a home situated. But it would be if we get three acres, then it wouldn't be, oh, we've got this place and it's on one acre and it's going to be encroached upon and so on and so forth. We'd have a nice 3 acre parcel with the mature trees and so forth. And I'm rambling now because I think it this idea might have some legs and I wanted to get Joe's thought. Well, prior to the meeting, um, Council Member Mabri and I

Yeah, we spoke as well. I'm not I'm not stealing his idea. No, I'm just saying that his initial impression is how do we control the property and certainly a purchase if Mr. Guruy, the owner, is willing is an option. But as you know, for the last two years, we've had no funding for acquisitions as part of our capital improvements program. But we do have um reserve funds and this is it would be worth the fight for some of us who understand the value of this house and you know enlisting the rest of the commission and so forth. It's possibility we could get we could make it happen.

Well certainly there's two people that sit on city council that could make it happen more so than the commission and anybody in the department of planning. you all vote. We don't I've got I mean I've got an election coming up so I may not be sitting there very much longer but I would I would fight this fight as long as I could and show up for public comments afterwards if necessary. Thank you. I do have a question. Mr. Gurie made the comment several times that the parcel was not really suitable for residential. How is it that it's now suitable for all of those houses?

Well, at the conclusion of our meeting on Monday, as Kee and I and Mr. Guru, he was still advocating for multiple family. And from a planner's perspective, multiple family housing is always what you propose when you're trying to balance between a good land use and a bad land use. we'll put apartments there and we'll let the renters figure it out. So, it's always that fall back. It's like it's not multiple family housing plays an important role for affordability and having a place for people to live, but it's also always, as I've said, it's the one thing that, oh, we'll put it next to the highway. Who cares if it's noisy? That kind of thing. So, we left that meeting with our 6A district on the table. the department took that 10 units per acre and took it down to two units per acre. Mr. Ruie may not accept it. I'm hearing from this commission, you're not accepting it. Um, so I think that that particular proposal probably isn't going to make much headway. And from the department's perspective, I'm hearing potential purchase of a portion of the property and setting his cost to purchase and then re relieving him of the liability concern that he spoke to often. And then there are other thoughts. I think I think one of the things that the city can do to help him if in fact liability is such a major concern is to give him a permit to erect very tall chainlink fence to keep people out

there. There are a multitude of ways to protect your property, right? And obviously insurance is just a component of that. Correct. I asked him that question. I have to get a permit. Okay, we can get those. Let's give him one.

If your fence is over six feet in height, we consider it a structure. And so from a structure standpoint, yes, you need a permit. Do we deny permits? No. If as a structure, it has to hear to the setbacks. Setbacks wouldn't be ownorous to protect JP Connell House. I can assure you. So I think I think the property is best suited for what he said. Raise cattle on it. Well, as you know, I stood up in front of you and said this this could work out. A small lot with 13 or 13 and a half acres as pasture. That could work.

Let me ask a question. If you proposing, you know, these houses out there, so if you're under three acres, you have to have be supplied by sewers. Is there sewers out sanitary? There is not sanitary sewers, but over the course of the last several months, the planning and zoning commission has been dealing with two um large lot single family subdivisions. 115 um 3acre lots, another 16 another 16 3acre lots. Each is required to have a centralized wastewater treatment plant. They have a treatment plant. Yeah. Now, and public water is just up at the intersection of Wild Horse Creek Road and Route 100. So, that's my other question. Is there public water?

Yeah. And the one proposal at Highway T and um Route 100 by Lombardo Homes, they are proposing to bring public water to that particular site. Is it also in a sewer district? No. So, it's a plant and it would be a plant that would be permitted by Missouri Department of Natural Resources and no natural gas. Pardon? Natural gas. Do they have natural gas? No, it it be like most of the rural areas with just electric and fortunately now highspeed internet. Yes. Which has changed my life. Thank you again. You're very welcome. Well, it gets to a point that your development costs are so much like

question. Is he open to any further discussion about the size of the lots or test he's going to do? As Miss Keith will attest, he he he agreed. Let's talk about it. Let's see what they say. We'll get back together. He's out of town or he would be here tonight. Um certainly if you provide any direction uh let's keep an eye out meet with him again and see where we can go. As long as we keep talking there's a chance and the Yeah. And I would agree. But I want to emphasize again without that asset on his property all he has is 14 acres that he will not be able to sell.

And he's got four home sites. Exactly. He's got four home sites which he has already said or he can raise are not suitable. Yeah. Can we move the house?

Well, surprisingly the attorneys representing the Marinus Retreat Center said Bobwood you could have the house the Mary Cliff residence if you could move it. Now it's 12,000 square feet. So yeah, I was like, you know, everybody I talked to said that's almost a darn impossible task and where are we going to take it? The JP Connell House is a smaller footprint and I'm sure we could find a place to put it. It would make a lovely wedding venue. I thought breakfast.

Director, I apologize. I didn't catch the last portion of what you'd said about having to do with the utilities. Uh I just really didn't catch it. It seemed important enough that it uh was taken as a positive I thought by another commissioner. Um talking about sewer system is not out there. They don't have sewers out that far. Everything there's no gas. It won't be. So everything was electric. You get heat pumps and you get all electric and that's what you get. So, was there something different about that that way you were presenting some information?

The only the only utility that typically you don't expect in the rural areas west of Route 109 in most instances is public water and public water is nearby and a connection could be made. So, electric um potable water from Missouri American Water Company, highspeed internet, but the remaining utilities Yeah. Excuse me. No sewer, no no gas. Okay. that that is not a positive. If you were referring to me, I would love to have those things, but it is what it is.

I do fine without anything except the liquor. I have for 40 years. Well, and again, I'm not necessarily advocating for the department's recommendation after hearing your comments, but you know, not far down Highway T in a rural area is a highly developed St. Alvin's um community. They have a range of house sizes. So they have one acre and they have small they have homes on very small lots in the old community of St. Albins's. So it's not so far-fetched as like there's nothing like it around. Well, go two miles west and you'll see it.

Yeah, we looked in St. Elburn's 40 years ago. Weren't we about to live there? And I understand I'm for I'm just saying we we can certainly step back say on the sideline do everything we can to delay the de demolition but eventually we're going to have to make a decision and I don't know if this is even an agreeable incentive package. I think the commercial light industrial might be the better of the two for Mr. Guru based upon the concluding remarks we had on Monday's meeting. But what I'm hearing is u let's go back and see if he'd be willing to consider selling a portion of the property to Wwood.

I would continue to contend that there would be no community support whatsoever for 24 homes or for an apartment complex and the light industrial that's a non-starter as well. And so we have to get creative and and you know try something else. And um a home on one acre, it's too constrained from several perspectives, not the least of which is the septic system. We need to have a septic system. It's tough to shoehorn everything into that existing location and get driveway in and probably a garage and so on, you know, if we're, you know, doing it right. So a a threeacre parcel makes some sense and um it would be a benefit to the community. We can spin it that way. I think that's really our in my opinion that's probably our our only option. I don't know if other folks agree, but I I can't see any other um way forward to save the house. All of Am I am I wrong here? Can does anybody see any other

thing for what you'd want to charge for houses there? It's not a site that's conducive. People are going to pay that much money for a house to put it there.

No, I ag 100% agree. I'm just I'm suggesting that if we can get an appraisal, you know, buy the JP Connell House and and three acres, then he's back in at square one in terms of reszoning. And if he wants to, you know, try again on one acre parcels or something like that, we'll entertain that notion, but he's out of the historic building business and he doesn't have the liability and Bob would just take him down, you know, whatever. What me mayor um Geratano has mentioned several times that the city is in need of of uh senior housing over 55 residential villas. Has anything like that been considered that would be that would complement the JP Colonel House? Something that is actually needed in the area? Um there's been consideration about finding different areas to build something like that. Well, certainly the R1A does allow attached units, so you could do pairs. They call them now attached villas. We used to call them duplexes. So, that's that's an option. Um, Town Center, we actually have our first villa proposal,

right, that we considered this week at the development and zoning review committee. So, um I would think that would be exciting to people who are preparing to downsize but don't necessarily want to move back into the city. Certainly. Um I think consistently over the years, the one question I get from residents in the large lot area is I don't want to leave Wildwood, but I don't need three acres anymore in this house. My kids are gone. And I always direct them toward town center, but it's all single family detached and it's not necessarily maintenance-free.

We're not necessarily talking about 24, 48 or 100, but it would be something that would be of sufficient quality and price that would complement the area. Um, but I could see that being possibly an alternative for an over 55 or

So, can I jump on that? Because I think that idea has some legs as well because you could if it if they are attached high in high density, you know, one highdensity construction, they can be hidden from old Manchester and from Highway 100 and people coming in from the west wouldn't see them. And it would, you know, we'd get the best of both worlds because we would add to the senior the over 55 housing. We would have a nice development. He could make his money on the land. It would be higher density than people could support. But if we if we if it's a proposal that shoehorns them in behind the existing free lines on both sides, I think that's a possibility there. So maybe Joe, that's the package, something like that. But it would have to be designed ahead of time. I don't know if that, you know, can work. But um

well that's the other thing is that the plan is to reszone for him to sell the property and to pass it off to someone else. Oh, I didn't get that. I I thought he he going to develop it himself. Oh. So yes, there would have to be a commitment that when sold it would be sold as this is the package. This is what we agreed to. Yeah. just sketch out the area where the we could do that that overlay district or that plan district. We can set the parameters for development, the maximum number of units, the size, etc. And location on the site, right? Like like a here's a line. Most definitely with setbacks.

Put them in the cow field or the cow patch, whatever. There's ways to obviously there's ways to manage development so you get the outcome that you think is best based upon the site's characteristic and the surrounding road system and development pattern. So, so are you willing to take another cut at this? I mean, you've got some parameters now. So, I I

I don't want to overstep my boundaries here, but I would be willing to make a motion that we just send it back to you having taken our input and uh come up with something else and you know that's creative that you think we can live with given the constraints we put on you about it can't be visible and etc etc. Is that reasonable to everyone?

Well, and I'll tip my hand. Obviously, on on March 9th at the city council meeting when we have the hearing on the waiver request for JP Connell House, the intent of the department is recommend to the city council not to approve it and let the process proceed forward. The completion of the historic preservation plan and its adoption. that'll give us additional time to work other alternatives. Any thoughts on um residents in that area? Would they would they accept the over 55 unit? I'm in that area and

I just proposed it and I'm in that area and I I support the idea conceptually. My concern is setting this precedent because my concern too. Then why can't we do it over here? Now

again just remember it's the historic land use category that has to be adopted and in place before any incentive. No other land use category in the master plan offers that opportunity and there has to be an asset worth preserving and accepting the risk. That'll be your decision. And I think you also said that this would be uh unique. In other words, it couldn't be duplicated necessarily because there's there's a lot of historic structures that people could buy on purpose once this is done and say, "Well, I want to do this and this and this." You can keep that historic structure, but I want to do all these other things. So, in the historic preservation plan, the draft you saw tonight, there's a list of those properties that I think are irreplaceable if they were to be lost. Mary Cliff was one, JP Connell, but between Esley Hamilton, who was the historian at St. Lewis County and the work that Michael Allen and his team did relative to our our inventory. I would say that again there's probably 10 to 12 one's gone Mary Cliff. We'll never be able to I think address was Institute with a proposal like this. I just think the yeah maybe one maybe two more times we might be asked but it's really up to you the decision makers to say no the asset isn't worth the outcome and that's a tough decision but when you're dealing with land use always remember once you approve it it's there for a long long long time. I I have to tell you when I first read your proposal I well I actually read it three times and outlined it to

make sure that I understood what it was that what you were proposing that it made me sad because at one on the one hand we were asking to preserve history on the other hand we were being asked to make history in a way I never thought I would be asked and that is to change the landscape of west of 109 forever. So I think our goal here is if we want to preserve we have to minimize changing the landscape and I actually hit upon the idea and as mayor Gitano three times now in coffee with the mayor if you haven't been you should come has said we need senior housing over 55 villas and the fact of the matter is we do because I'm tired of climbing the steps

certainly and again I cannot And just one last thing and then I think we'll motion to postpone and send it

at our virtual open house. Sue Cullen was on the screen. Sue Cullen was one of the principal incorporators. She cut her bleed green wildwood green. She moved out of the city because she couldn't find an alternative to a threeacre lot and a two-story home and that hurts too. So, I get the need for senior housing and obviously we'll do our best we can to meet that demand, but um so I've got my margin. Thank you,

chair. I this question and I I don't know the do we still have a quorum with one commissioner having left. I don't know what that Yeah, the Mr. Lavas is an alternate so he's not part of our quum.

Very well. Thank you. I I would like just to offer that terrible experience from what I think Director Bunich touched on, but I didn't catch it all. The zoning doesn't go with the owner. The zoning doesn't go and I think it was touched on by the commissioner also. Zoning goes with the property and the zoning you. Is that what you were referring to? It lasts for a long long long long long. Was that it or was it something else you were referring to lasting forever? That's it. Once you zone something, you're stuck with it until that owner says or you take the proactive step and try to reszone it, which will end you in court.

It was a PEU for the county and it's an overlay district here. I think if I'm not mistating that and uh I've spoke in the last setting of this type and u it was just an observation but now it's I think it's being substantiated as more than just an observation it's being understood that um reszoning to an R6A or to an R4B or an R1F whatever you do lasts with that property forever long beyond the point where that owner has flipped it in 10 minutes or in 3 years uh without ever having thought a cow would ever eat a piece of grass off of that land. I never imagined in my life that that would ever actually occur. Had a lot to do with the presentation than anything else. Um however we reszone that property and what I observed last time was not just a variance to the zoning categories for both the master plan which has been 30 years in the making but also the the historic preservation plan which has the same basic tenants. We're violating. We're doing it in such a proud way that uh there's no reason for any developer or any resident to ever think that there's going to be a master plan that exists in the city of Wildwood or ever did if it's so blindly and nonchalantly cast aside um because of the wild dream of of a developer who's going to flip that property the minute the second they get that R6A. I had a actual motion for the development plan which would become an overlay district. Uh, I like the idea of tasking Director Vunich to the point of his desperation um and and his his

eternal trauma trying to get this thing to the point where we can get the uh the owner developer to actually agree to an overlay district which would agree to what I was going to very fully prepared to make as a motion on the development plan for that property. which would pass muster with the residents, with the master plan, with common sense, with the residents of far West Wildwood where it seems two commissioners already live. Um, I'd offer it, but it's going to be that or I'll stay shut up and I'll let everybody just say, uh, we don't need to hear his plan because he's got the whole thing mapped out. um and just say let director do his worst to try to get this thing pulled around.

Well, and again, this is a collaborative between the commission and the department. I value your input. I we value your input. We need your input. You've given me some direction. We'll go back. We'll see what we come up with and we'll return and let you know. But I need a motion to postpone and we can proceed to the next items on the agenda.

I move Okay. I don't know the rules on this chair. You're vice president. You're a vice president.

So, Mr. Just like a vice president. You're doing Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we have a motion on the floor to postpone this item to a future meeting. If there is someone that would second it other than the chair, it would be much appreciated. I will second it. Um, and your direction, as you know, is some something in the center that's hidden from the passers by and um preserves the JP compound. That's those are the goals. So,

I didn't want to interrupt, but um you know, it would be nice if they could use the JP Connell House as like a community center for for the development. you know, have happy hours or Yeah, they could incorporate the house into that. One step at a time. Yeah, I get part of the developer be great. All in favor of the motion. I I

opposed youth. All right, Mr. Chair, members of this commission, I'm going to keep this real brief. Uh the department has received two uh applications for nomination of assets to the Wildwood Historic Register. Uh they're both um unique. Uh they're both log cabins. Uh one is a log cabin, part of a larger homestead and farmstead uh which this commission toured a year or two ago. And the other is a dog trot cabin um that is not the primary dwelling on the site. it was used as a crib or a barn at some point and the owner would like to uh restore it um and turn it into a pool storage uh facility or at least that was what he last proposed. Um so both are very very interesting uh assets and you have information about them in your packets this evening and you'll be hearing a lot more as we go through the process in the future uh where the department gives full presentation about the assets. Um, so if you have any questions for me, um, at this time, I can take them. Otherwise, you'll be hearing about these again.

That it make I can't make a motion. Anybody want to make a motion to adjurnn? Sure. Second. I second. All in favor? I opposed. Youth. Thank you all. We appreciate your time. Oh, we appreciate your