Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm going to call this meeting to order. Um, first item is the minutes. Looks like we're reviewing the minutes from May 14th, 2025 planning commission meetings. The approval of those minutes. Has everybody had a chance to review those? And any questions? I'll second. Okay, I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

All right, motion carries. Next item of business, we have BAR 2025-12, a variance request to reduce the setback requirements for outdoor kennel run and playyard from 200 ft from residential dwelling to 76 ft at an address of 11932 Southwest Highway 54. Uh we will consider approval for variance. And at this time, I will give it back to Cammy um for staff report. Good morning.

Good morning. Um, real quick, I'd like to introduce our new city planner, Sam Cooper. Um, he has started with us in May, but it has been a minute since we've had anything come before the planning commission or the board of zoning appeals. Um, so he's been able to have kind of a slow roll um into this position, but now we are absolutely buried in requests and inquiries and cases. So, be prepared. We're going to spend a lot of time together over probably for the rest of the year. So, um, very exciting things happening and on the horizon. Um, so we definitely look forward to that. But I just wanted to take an opportunity for you guys to meet Sam.

Nice to meet you, Sam.

Um, so I will present the staff report right now. We have lots of attachments for the staff report. So, if there's anything in particular you want us to scroll to, we can absolutely you can pause me and we can move um to a different map um or location or when I'm done, we can bring up separate attachments as well. Um so, this is a variance request for 11 1932 Southwest Highway 54. Um this is located north of Highway 54 and east of Towakin Road. This is in our planning area. Um the current zoning of the property is C3 General Commercial District. Um there are three lots under consideration and that total acreage is 4.86 acres. Um the lot currently right now we put vacant. It's in transition. Um most recently it was an RV storage and sales facility. Um, the applicant, Scotty S. Ston, who is here this morning, is proposing to operate a boarding kennel with outdoor kennel run and playyard for the purpose of a dog training facility on a commercially zoned property. Property to the west is zone C3 district, but is a residential use. Property to the north is currently a mix of residential and commercial land uses, but intended to be zone C3. And this is according to our future land map and our comprehensive plan. The applicant is requesting a variance to encroach into the setback to construct an outdoor kennel run and playyard. Um boarding kennels are allowed are in allowed use in the C3 district um with the following specific use standards. The minimum lot size shall be 5 acres for any boarding kennel having outdoor runs. Um the proposed property as stated is a total of 4.86 acres. Um that is a

deviation of 2.8% for the 5 acre requirement. Um and I believe this deviation could be approved by administrative exception. Um so that is not being considered as part of this variance today. The outdoor runs and playyards um shall be set back a minimum of 50 ft from a lot line and shall be located within a minimum of 200 feet from any off- premise residential dwelling unit. The proposed outdoor run playard is set back approximately 14 ft from the lot line and this is in line with the existing building that's on the site. The proposed outdoor run and playyard is approximately 76 ft from an off-remise residential dwelling located at 11835 Southwest 99th and this is the impetus for the variance request. Um the applicants are aware of the various screen screening requirements and are in the process of putting up a brand new fence that's in line with the existing structure um for sight and sound barriers between the residential dwelling that's to the rear of the property. Um boarding kennels are also prohibited within the residential districts within the city limits. However, this proposed property is located within the planning area and not within city limits. Additionally, according to the future land use map, the properties are zone C3 district. A boarding kennel is identified as a primary use in the zoning regulations. However, an outdoor kennel runner playard is classified as a secondary use and is not currently permitted in C3 district. This appears to be an oversight in the regulations as outdoor runs and playyards are essential components for the proper operation of a boarding kennel. Um, so we will be bringing some text amendments in the future to make sure that those two things are in alignment within the zoning regulation.

So staff did complete an analysis of the request. Um, so first we looked at zoning compatibility and the proposed properties are commercially zoned. Adjacent properties are also zoned commercial but are residential uses. The requested variance raises concerns regarding potential noise and disturbance to neighboring residents. And we looked at setback encroachment. So staffs reviewed the site layout and finds that the outdoor kennel run and playyard will be located in the rear of the property minimizing visibility from the street. The reduction of setback from 200 ft to 76 ft will be unlikely to have meaningful negative impact on the quality of life of surrounding residential properties. The singular residential dwelling impacted by this requested variance has submitted an affidavit stating that they are not in opposition to the plan. Setback requirements from the other adjacent residential dwelling at 11 1967 Southwest 99th comply. Um we looked at mitigation measures. So, the applicant is aware of screening requirements and has proposed operating hour restrictions to reduce potential impacts on adjacent properties. Between the hours of 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m., dogs dog access to the outdoor kennel run and playyard will be restricted. The restricted time frame for dog access to the kennel run play area is a reasonable restriction that will both allow for normal traditional operating hours while protecting residential dwellings from late night dog noise nuisances. The requested variance is permissible as the board of zoning appeals is permitted to grant variances defense setbacks, setbacks, and yard requirements. The board of zoning appeals is additionally authorized to place conditions and restrictions on the time of operations. [Music] So part of the variance request and

review and approval process is that the board of zoning appeals um consider various findings of facts um and qualifications for that variance those variance standards. um those are written into state statute and are included in our zoning rags. So I will go through the findings of facts now. Is the variance unique to the property in question? The property is commercially zoned but is uniquely constrained by its location. The future land use map indicates surrounding properties to be commercial. However, two were developed with residential uses. Under typical circumstances, proximity to other commercial uses would not create a conflict. However, in this case, the presence of nearby residences makes the setback requirement more restrictive than it would be if the surrounding parcels parcels were fully developed with businesses. Staff find this is unique to the property. Is the variance ordinarily found in the same zoning district? Variances to setbacks are found in the same zoning district. In most cases, commercial properties within the district are surrounded by other commercial uses and setback requirements can be met. In this case, however, the property is uniquely constrained by its proximity to residential uses along with the size and configuration of the rear yard. These conditions make the requested variance specific to the site and not generally applicable to other C3 properties. Is the need for variance created by an action of the property owner or the applicant? The subject property has been developed since 1984. The property to the west was developed in 1983. the property to the north in 2004 and the remaining nearby residential structure in 1991. Over time, the area has experienced multiple lot splits since the original plat resulting in several non-conforming lots. The need for this variance is not the result of the applicant's actions, the setback requirement, and the presence of the

surrounding residential uses existed prior to the applicant's proposal. The request is intended to allow a reasonable use of the property a boarding kennel while minimizing impacts on neighboring properties. Will the granting of the variance adversely affect the rights of adjacent property owners or residents? Setback requirements establish minimum distances between structures and other improvements to promote safety, privacy, environmental protection, and in some cases aesthetic consistency. The subject property has supported commercial development since 1984 without adverse effects on adjacent property owners or residents. The proposed use is less intensive than some past uses of the site. Based on this, staff finds that the request is not expected to negatively impact on the rights of nearby property owners or residents. Approval of the variance is not anticipated to harm the public good provided that conditions are applied. Recommended conditions include limiting operating hours and requiring fencing or landscaping to mitigate noise and visibility. While these measures in place, the kennel would operate within a commercial district while maintaining compatibility with neighboring residential properties. Will strict application of the provisions of these regulations constitute unnecessary hardship upon the property owner represented in the application? Yes, a hardship exists due the due to the topography of the site and location of the existing structure. Relocating the kennel runs to the east in order to comply with the setback would require the removal of numerous mature trees and significant site disturbance. Strict application of the regulation would therefore therefore impose an unnecessary hardship by forcing alterations that both environmentally that are both environmentally disruptive and inconsistent with maintaining the character of the property. Does the requested variance oppose the general spirit and intent of these

regulations? The proposed variance enables reasonable use of a commercially zoned property while remaining consistent with the intent of the zoning ordinance to protect adjacent residential areas. With appropriate mitigation measures in place, the request supports the ordinance's objective of minimizing conflicts between commercial and residential uses to my first page. Um so the recommendation of staff today is to approve the variance with conditions and those are as follows. The outdoor kennel run and playyard will occupy a portion of the rear setback area reducing setback requirements from 200 ft from residential dwellings to 76 ft from residential dwellings. This will only apply to the rear setback as indicated on the site plan. The outdoor kennel run will play and playard will occupy a portion of the rear setback area reducing rear setback requirement from 50 ft to 14 ft. Outdoor I'm sorry. Operating hours of the outdoor kennel and playyard will be restricted to 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and no other structures may be placed within the setback. So staff is here to answer any questions. Um, otherwise I'd request opening up the public hearing. Do

I need to close this hearing first or and then open zoning or mine just to open? I guess we need to open the meeting. Okay. Okay. So, I guess I need a I need somebody to give me a motion to adjourn the planning commission so we can open as the zoning appeals. I make a motion. Have a second. I'll have a second that. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Okay. Then at this time, I'm going to open the meeting for the board of zoning appeals. Hi. Same people. Um and right now I'm opening the public hearing. So, um if you guys have any questions for staff, if anybody wants to come up and speak, um just make sure you give us your name and your address um when you come up to the podium. Hi, my name is Scott Ston. Um, do you want my home address or the business address? Cuz I don't live in Augusta. Um, it's your home address.

It's 2020 East Lotus Court in Andover. Um, I am the owner of Andover Dog Training Center and what will hopefully be the lodges at Andover Dog Training Center. Um, what I want you all to understand is that this is not what uh most people think of when they think of a boarding facility. It's not going to be 40 to 80 dogs shoved into a building and tiny little cages. This is meant to be very premium. Each dog will have their own individual cabins. So, I'm going to start out with 10 cabins. They're they're a 12x10 cabin. So on the inside it's 8 by10. They'll have uh a mini split in there so it'll be heated and cooled. They'll have a TV. The owners will have a camera. They'll have beds in there. And then they'll have a 4ftx 10 ft covered porch and a doggy door. And with that they'll have their own individual 12x 12 yards. And there will be 5 foot between each individual cabin. Like I said, this thing is meant to be very, very nice. Um, with starting with 10 kennels, I'm allowing only the max of three dogs in a cabin. Um, and that's like if someone does have three dogs and they get along and they're not huge dogs. Um, so if every single one of them was full with three dogs, it'd be 30 dogs max. Uh, I don't see that I don't see that happening. But um along with that, if you see on the picture, the kennels, the cabins will actually be down at the very bottom of the property set back uh 50 foot from our property line at the bottom. So there will be no they they will not actually be anywhere near the

property. They will be within that 200 foot that is actually required. What what we're looking at is just that fence that goes goes around, which is the purple. And um that is just going to be for when we're out there training with a dog. There will actually be no dogs up there on their own. Um that will be our training yard. We'll have obstacles and different things out there for the dogs to train on and working on uh distance recalls and stuff like that. So, there will actually be no dogs in that area on their own without someone out there with them. Um, don't know if any of y'all know me, but I am a former Army bomb dog trainer. Um, I'm a disabled combat veteran and I have very high standards for my dogs. Um, if you've ever seen any of my dogs when we're out in stores, my dogs are better behaved than most of the children in there. So, uh, I don't see my dogs being a issue for this facility. Um, like they said, I've talked to the wonderful lady that lives behind it. Uh, we actually are friends with the family and she signed the affidavit saying that she loves the idea and she gives up any permission to have any complaints in the future. Um, but yeah, that's that's what we're trying to do. If y'all have any questions, I can answer them, but I am here.

I have a question. And how long have you owned the property then that you're wanting a variance on? I've leased it for 3 weeks. So you leased it. You don't own the property. I do not own the property. I'm looking at buying the property. How are we granting a variance? Have you talked to the owner of the property? Yes, we've been in contact with the owner as well. So they reached us out to us initially as part of this as well. They're fine with it, but we don't have anything in the packet that shows that, do we? Um, probably not. I don't see anything. I just don't know how you do a variance without having owner permission and in the packet.

Yes. And he does have a lease as well. And leases allow for any and all alterations to a property. What's the time period of the lease then? It's 3 years for the moment with a option to purchase. Yeah. Do you run a facility like this in Andover? I don't have boarding at the moment, but we have training and grooming in Andover. Okay. What's the location? Uh, it's right on Andover Road. It's 1023 North Andover Road, just north of the police station and fire station.

Okay. Is that something we need to check on then with the owner? It's some kind of an affidavit from the owner stating that he's fine with his tenant getting a variance and it can be part of the motion if you choose to approve it as well as pending having that signed affidavit from the owner. So, we did have we did have phone conversations with the owner. Um, he also reached out to the mayor as well. Um, so we were in conversations with the owner during this process. Um, but it can be pending that written affidavit because I think we need a paper trail

and that and that's fine. I would recommend approval pending staff receiving that and sharing it with the commission. That way we don't hold up the process and come back. And I I will have that as soon as he gets back in town. He's out of town for the week. So I will have that to you guys Monday. Thank you. And does that need to be notorized? I know we did have an issue. I didn't have the lady notoriize the affidavit so I can get her to renote. We can redo that and have her notoriize it. I added that to the bottom of my letter just in case we needed it. I didn't know if we needed it. Required to be notorized and Okay. The zoning rags I think just How soon do you plan on opening? October the 4th with your cabins built.

Are you are you building them or are they No, I'm purchasing them and then I have to finish the insides. I'm just curious what dogs choose to watch on TV. Noises and other dogs. Other dogs. Who turns that on? We will. We'll give them a big giant remote. Just walk up there and just press the buttons. Hey, I can train I can train anything. I'm telling you. Just don't give me a cat. I can't train a cat. So, this is strictly dogs, not any other pets. No, just dogs. Site layout. The lady lives actually in the home that's on the north. Yes. And then these are the others are out buildings.

That's her. Yeah, that's her big garage there just to the south. Um and you can't really tell, but she has a massive concrete fence, concrete wall that goes along the property. That thing's like 8 foot tall. Scott, what are you thinking for for the screening requirement? Do you um I've got six foot privacy fence that's going to go all the way around that purple. Okay. And it is set back from that rear property line. So, it is in line with the building.

And when you're saying operating hours 8 to 8, after 8:00 p.m. the dogs aren't outside then at all. Yeah. After 8 after 8:00 p.m. they have to go in their house and we put their lock on their doggy door. Wondering if you have a way that you're going to be able to lock them from being outside. Yeah, the the doggy doors that we have have a insert that you can put in and they can't go out. And it is I don't know if I mentioned it in the staff report, but the kennels are in an appropriate place that have that meet all of the required setback requirements from property lines and residential dwellings. So the kennels themselves or the dogs are going to be staying indoors are in compliance. And this is just in reference to that outdoor dog run yard area that will be used during the day.

Any other questions for Scott? Thank you for your time. Thank you. Public hearing still open if anybody else wants to come up and speak. I'm actually not here for that. Okay. I live in the house to the west and Okay. Um, okay. At this point, I'm gonna We're making lots of friends. I'll make a motion. Hold on. I got to close this public hearing. Good. Because I don't know what my So, before you make the motion. So, can you close the public hearing and

Yep. Okay. Okay, at this time I'm going to close the public hearing. So, as part of the variance consideration, um the board does need to consider the findings of facts that staff presented. So, if you could just kind of walk through those and see if there's any opposition or additional comments that the board would like to add um to staff staff's report. Um and then after that consideration, make a motion. You

want me just kind of go over the highlight those in general? Yeah. and see if anybody has questions. Okay. Okay. So, at this time, we're going to look over those findings of facts. Those are going to be under that qualifications for variance standards. I'll just kind of read the top and then if you guys have any questions, we or comments, we'll we'll make them and then we'll go to the next thing. Uh first one, is the variance unique to the property in question? Okay. Is the variance ordinarily found in the same zoning district? Is the need for the variance created by an action of the property owner or the applicant? Will the granting of the variance adversely affect the rights of adjacent property owners or residents? Will strict application of the provisions of these regulations constitute unnecessary hardship on the property owners represented in the application? And then finally, does the requested variance oppose the general spirit and intent of these of these regulations? Any comments from commissioners on any of those? Okay. So, then at this time, we can look at a motion. Um, and if you guys want to include something about an affidavit from the property owner saying that they're okay for this variance to happen, we can make that part of uh the conditions of this approval. I make a motion that we approve variance 2025-12 variance request to reduce setback requirements for outdoor kennel and kennel runs and playy yard from 200 f feet from residential dwellings to 76 ft at 11932 southwest highway 54 with a conition

that we get an affidavit signed by the owner of the property stating that he is okay with the variance. and including the conditions in the staff report. In the staff report. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Motion carries. Okay. At this time, I'm going to close the meeting for the board of zoning appeals. Do I have to have a motion for that or can I just close? Second. I got it anyway. Okay. Closed. Um, now I'll open us back up as the planning commission meeting and we Makes you a little dizzy, doesn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, at least we don't have to move chairs. Um,

so then our next item we're going to look at is we got matters um for the commission. Looks like we've got something set up for our September 24th meeting. Um, I'll turn it back to Cammy and Sam to visit with us on that stuff. Um, and real quick, just a matter of the reason to go through those variance requirements is if you did not agree, if the board did not agree with staff's recommendation, um, then we would have to verbally give a a reason that contradicts what we had put in the staff report. So, just for the record, um, so we do have some items coming up. So, as I mentioned at the start of the meeting, um, we're going to be spending a lot of time together. Um so at the next meeting we are planning um to bring another variance request before the board of zoning appeals and this is for the Augusta Middle School um to exceed their side setback. Um as you know the school recently passed their bond issue and that includes a lot of renovations to numerous schools. One of them is the Augusta Middle School. So we have those preliminary plans um and one of the additions is exceeding um one of the side setbacks. Um, additionally, we're going to have a cup that the city is bringing. Um, that's for allowing um a construction admin trailer where the city parks facility is off of Ohio. Um, and this is because we're kind of in a transition period between getting a new public works building um, and staff there needs kind of a temporary office space to operate out of. Um and so we're bringing we're proposing to bring in kind of a construction admin um trailer as a temporary office space for the parks department until that that public works campus is completed. Um we also have another plat that's going to be coming before um the board. It is for storage max which is also located out in the

planning area. Um, I had some conversations with Butler County yesterday and so this one might not actually come on September 24th because it also needs to go um through Butler County as well. So, um, Toby and I are working on what that timeline looks like. So, if it's not at the September 24th meeting, it'll be at the first one in October. Um, and then we have another pending residential subdivision plat and resoning case that we're working internally right now. Um and that will be coming before the board probably within the next month or so um as well. So I just wanted to keep you apprised that we do have some big things that that are happening. Um and I know there is um a resident here that has some comments to make to the board as well. Um so if we could offer her an opportunity to speak.

Um couple questions for you on what you just brought up. Where do you know where the storage max plat where they're looking at? Yeah. Um I don't have the address off of the top of my head, but um do you know where there's the sto storage max? And then right next door is a place where you can purchase emergency vehicles like the police cars. It's kind of over by the air. Surfro. Surfro. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Um, they own additional land to the north of their facility and they're wanting to develop that. Okay. I thought we already did that. Made we that had already been brought to we had a storage one but it was south of town.

Oh, so it was so part of it was brought you're correct. So this has been ongoing for a year a year and a half. So, we did originally bring a case, but it was to um amend the lot coverage requirements. Okay. In the zoning district. So, we increased the lot coverage requirements and this was one of the cases that supported that. So, now they're going it was unplatted. So, now they're they've been going through the platting process so they can develop on it. Yeah, that was the first step was to make sure they could develop it. Um Yeah. Will will Scott's um deal since it's interlocal and in the will he have to go be before uh Butler County or No,

that one does not. Okay, perfect. Okay. Yeah. And it doesn't go before the city council either planning the board of zoning. That's fine. Okay. Sorry about that. Sorry. Could you please state your name and address? I was kind of nosy myself wondering about that. Yeah. Well, I got other questions when you're done. Yeah. Kim Brunard. My address is 11 1967 Southwest 99th. Coincidentally, my house is the one to the west of the dog kennel. And um not when I first heard about it, I was like, "Oh, because I just can't imagine the noise and stuff." But I talked to Scott definitely uh you know, as responsible as can be in this. And I actually think my son's dogs will spend some time there. So, perfect. Got your first client.

They need it. Oh my god, they need it. But anyway, but my main reason to be honest was do what? I just told him to collect up front.

Yeah, exactly. This was good. Good for you. Um, but honestly, my main reason was like I bought a house in the middle that's zoned commercial in the middle of commercial, you know, with a highway frontage and a guy fixing jet skis beside me. Like I don't really have, you know, a I can't really have a problem with something like that that comes along because it's in the zoning. So, that's kind of why I'm here. Um, part of why I bought this property um was my intent was to put billboards up along the highway. And so I've been talking to Sam about this the last couple days and um Kianne Ryan made this little design thing for me quickly last night. So my house, this is the dog kennel property. So the the office actually sits over here and the kennels will be down there. But this L shape is my property. So the way because it's plotted from back in the 80s, I can survey off this point or this halfacre down here and have it separate from what is my residence up here because my residence has the um the shop and the house and all my utilities and everything on this site back here. So there's some inconsistency I think in the sign right but one of the things in question was whether or not a primary sign basically had something to do with the property use and because I'm using it as a residence and like well we can't do that. Well I can fix that by literally going and filing immediately with my front blocks. So this is just kind of a rendering of what it would look like. If you see the I know you have seen the new billboards that Curry put up over by hand over they did eight of them along the highway. I'm wanting to do two. So I'm like two versus eight is pretty conservative and the only person I'd be quoting but bothering is myself and I don't have a problem. [Laughter]

I'm actually quite poor trying to figure out retirement stuff, but um Sam and I were kind of going, we've talked back and forth on the sign rags and you know, I I do condemnation appraisals for a living. I do a lot of acquisition stuff, so I'm pretty familiar with having to deal with these types of issues. Um, I think there are ways honestly these sign rags are extremely extremely thorough. Could also be called overkill, but they really just spec are so specific to urban development. They over and over again they have all these examples, but there's only one point in them that specifically mentions highway fronting properties or highway fronting signs. And in the highway fronting signs portion of the regulation, it's actually super lenient, but it's lenient with regard to a second sign, not a primary sign. So the issue I have I'm having with the sign regs is what a primary sign is defined as and how large it can be and all those things. So, without getting too much in the weeds because obviously you're not going to move on this today, but what I'm going to request is a variance in the sign regs that will allow me basically allow me to do these two signs. And what if you guys were to sign off on it, then K dot still has to approve it. So, you guys aren't even the final word on it. I just K dot just needs to say or just needs to know that the governing authority is, you know, okay with that. Sorry, I don't like public speaking even though I know most of you it's like Anyway, um so yeah, mainly I just wanted to come here and see if you guys had any concerns or specific questions so that I could address that. I'm going to give them the application within the next day or two. I literally just started talking to them about this on Monday even though I've had the idea for a year so or last week I guess is when we started it. But but

anyway, I guess my thing is just do you have concerns? Is there anything you want me to try to address with regard to this so that I can maybe be ahead of the curve on getting this done? How large of signs are you talking about, Kim? Same size that McCertie put up. They're 10 by 30. 30.

Yeah. And that's within Kregs. They have restrictions on how high they can be. There's like a max of 30 foot high from ground level. Mine are going to be approximately 25. Um, yeah. So, and if you'll actually I'll just kind of I wish I had copies for everyone, but you guys can kind of take this and pass it down, but this is this thing. But that's I have a clump of trees at the corner of my property. So, these will be sitting in front of those trees. So, they're not going to cause any kind of disturbance coming from the other way because you're not going be able to see them. I'm actually shocked that Kot hasn't come and just destroyed that whole tree rope because half of it's in the rideway.

Got it in the easement. Yeah. And like one just go down. I wish they'd come clean it up. So the signs will actually set in K dot's ement as well. No, they have to be outside of the ement. It has to be so much inside their easement on my property and then so many feet off of my property line. So and like I said, all of that will be governed by them. So it'll be like if you're heading to Witchaw, you'll be able to read them. So yeah. And at first I was going to do it to advertise my brokerage and stuff, but I'm as busy as I want to be. So I think I mean my intent intent would just be to rent them out. So

does anybody have any comment on the planning commission for Kim questions? I mean

so this type of request does not qualify for a variance. um we have a very specific list of items that we can bring before the board um for variance consideration. So this is not one of them. Um it's also not a conditional use. So there would need to be an amendment made to the text um which does need to be should be directed by the planning commission to staff um so we can get it kind of on our workload calendar I guess. Um

my proposal is cuz staff has just done some really high level investigative research on other municipalities and I talked to Butler County and how they handle billboard signs within the county. Um, as well I talked to Toby yesterday. So, we've just done some initial investigative work. We don't have a staff report. We don't have a recommendation. Um, so I would recommend giving us time to develop a staff report, bring it back to the board and then we can get your feedback on what that text amendment should be like that wording. So, basically changing our regulations on signage. Signage. That way there's not a variance or conditional use. It's just a Yes.

Yes. And we can look at like she said it does address more urban development. So we could have some warning in there about more rural or if it's off of the highway and really kind of condense it to that area. Yeah, I know our sign rags are intensive. Um the longest section of the book. We got the down we got the downtown area and we know there's that all you know it's like they just put the growth area like they just lumped it in because they didn't know like well we got to include it and it doesn't make sense at all.

And we've talked internally not just on this item but there are some other items that kind of come through our office and they're in the growth area and it's like okay well what are the county's regulations on that and maybe we should kind of mirror them on some things. Um, obviously the zoning I think is the most important part, but some of these other items we could kind of fall in line with the county and provide a little bit more consistency. So, we are looking at that not just for this item, but also some other items that have come before us like a buildings like equipment storage buildings on a land that's within our growth area. You know, why would we not allow someone who's farming a piece of land to store their equipment?

We've talked about that before. That's one that's recently come up and it's like what does the county do? Um if they are legitimately farming um and that is the use of the property. So this is just another example. It it is something text amendments are not quick. So just with the meeting schedule and the public notifications like Well, you're super patient, right? That's my biggest strength.

Yeah. I we have a couple like we can start developing a staff report. We could make a public notice saying we're look I I'm scared to make a public notice because I don't know all the sections of the book. I'm going to have to revise right now. It may be different sections that even go outside of the signing sign regulations. So, I'd like to put together a staff report, a plan, bring it back here, get your feedback, um an approval to continue moving forward, then make a public notice. It's a little bit more specific um to all the sections of the book that need to be revised. then come back for a public hearing and final approval from this board and then it'll need to go to city council as well. So we were really looking at the December January timeline to get it to city council. So it would be October November timeline to come before this board.

Okay. So, I guess my follow-up question would be, does she need to would it be in Kim's best interest, do you think, to wait and not spend the money to, you know, deed off that portion because maybe she won't even need to or not sure.

I No, I am not supportive of deeding off the portion of the land. I know when we did the lot split, we had conversations about it. it really needed to be that area needed to be platted and um I've I wrote and filed a letter with the register of deeds that it there shouldn't be any more development on any of those parcels um as far as new buildings or if houses were being rebuilt or you know even new buildings going in for the commercial property without it being platted. Um, so I tried to put that restriction on there and filed that with a register of deeds. If it is split off, again, that bottom portion, you're putting a lot line right in the middle of a pond and you're making a non-conforming and an undevelopable lot. So, I know from a real estate perspective and even a tax perspective, it's not a big deal. But from a development perspective, when we look at how we configure lots, it it would be non-conforming and undevelopable. So, I would not be supportive of that. I can't stop her from

making that split because the register deeds will file a valid survey with or without my approval. But as city staff, I would not be supportive of that. Yeah, I understand. Obviously, I do it for a living, so I understand the implication. And my intent with owning this property long term is the fact that I do think long term the highest and best use is not, you know, not a house, you know,

but we're nowhere near there being demand for that to be anything but that for now, you know, and in the meantime, it's like, okay, I own this. I want to try to get it, you know, making as much money as I can cuz, you know, otherwise, what's the point? I might as well just move back to town and have something cheaper because that's the whole point of buying it. But I did have I actually agree with um changing the sign rags and and having a section that is specific to you know highway frontage and and to me the simple thing would just be default to what K dot says. I mean as far as billboards go and you know just ver do a narrow scope is like a billboard is defined as a you know fixed sign of this size or greater and you know stay within those regs because I just don't see the point in reinventing the wheel. Um but I did have a question though with regard to my of course I want to get this done as soon as possible and if it's December, January, whatever I'll I'll wait through it if I have to. But in the the sign rags, there's C3 item 1A and it talks about primary free freestanding signs that lots will be allowed one primary on premise sign that's structurally classified as fixed freestanding subject to the following provisions. The onremise sign is the the thing that basically says you have to have the sign related to what the property is. So that's why I say if you split that off then it's not attached to that. So in so there's a workaround there. The sign size is dictated in that regulation under letter A and and the height and the sign height. So that's why I thought I could do a variance because if I did a variance to that rag, then that accomplishes the primary sign. And then if you go further into that same sign rag where it says highway frontage freestanding signs there's it says signs may be on premise or off- premise with no limits on display

classification and it maximize the sign size at 200 square feet and I'm proposing 300. So from where I'm coming from, I feel like there could be a variance on those two rags because they do I mean albeit poorly, they do, you know, spell out what I have because I have a C3 zoned property with and this is what I'm proposing. So if I got variances on those items, I would think that would make sense.

So the variance apply the variance can apply to the sign dimensions. where we're getting hung up is the onremise part of it. And even if it was deed off, there still is no business for the sign to be connected to as on premise because on premise is defined in the zoning rag. Um, and it is related to what business is on that property. So those can't have variances. I'm just asking because I'm curious. I the way I'm interpreting it that would not classify as a variance. Um but I mean I'm happy to look at it more like you said we've just been working this for Yeah.

And I mean to me it's kind of like I I don't know. I don't remember what the saying is that I'm trying to think but like we're in the cart before the horse. Yeah. Well it when requests come through our office like we do spend a lot of time evaluating them and discussing them internally. we, you know, call the applicant multiple times to get more information, additional feedback, have those conversations that spark new ideas um and different ways of looking at the rugs and interpreting them. So, it's not I don't like to give answers like yeah, that's

immediately. I mean, we're working it, but it is I feel like a lot of times the more conversations we have, the more understanding we have as far as interpreting them. So, we can continue to do that process and we can continue to have conversations and I think even the conversation we're having this morning is really helpful for me, right? Um to hear. So, I'm happy to look at it again and see if I can make that work. Okay. Um and if and also in conjunction continue looking at the text amendment as well and bringing that before the planning commission. Sounds good. up there. Go ahead.

Couldn't the on business purpose be advertising? It's advertising business for that law. Yeah. I We're trying to help out here. I know it is. Nothing fits. Advertising business. What we could do is get it real close to yours. You purchase a billboard. then I'm advertising for you and then

then I have I have distance requirements between signs. So that is another issue that we're running into is the sign that is on that property. The other thing the gray area is that this is in our future lane use map. This is zone C3. Everything around it is C3. This is a residential use. Residential uses are not typically allowed in C3. So I'm not only dealing with the zone the zoning of the lot. I'm dealing with the use of the lot as well that is not also not in a conformance with our zoning rags. Um

but it has been for and that's the problem is like I'm sorry I interrupted with these sign rags literally almost no sign that exists in the growth area would be allowed by these sign rags. The Ford dealership would not be able to have its sign. The billboard that's by the Ford dealership. The big digital one would not be allowed. Like if you really read these, there's no way. Oh yeah. I mean I went home. It's crazy

when I mean I I drive that way home every day and to work and home, but I I've noticed the billboards before, but this time I really like counted them and like looked at them and where they were located. And I mean, even getting into Andover and reading their rags, I'm like, "Oh, like none of this stuff." like I I don't even know how any of this exists because I don't feel like any of us are following any sort of regulation when it comes um to these large signs on the highway. So I think there is kind of a

I think there's a lot of just conforming to KOT's regs which also aren't addressed or referenced in our regs either. So that's that's a place for improvement as well. Um, but again back to the residential use when we like can it be an advertising business and I know she she has her own business then I'm am I dealing with home occupation occupations then at that point do I need to reference that part of the code because I know what it's zoned and but the use is not consistent with that. So I just there's a lot of considerations and pieces for us to get them to fit.

Yeah. The problem is the the city zoning rags just I mean I'm sure you guys have seen this time and time again. They just don't make sense with the with the growth. Yeah. They're not it's just not compatible. We talked about that. Yeah. Right. But it also doesn't have a primary use on it at that point. It's no. Yeah. Well, it sounds like there's some work to do. Um, you know, so I mean, I think we're all in favor of you guys bringing it back to us and looking at it. Um, I think getting with K DOT is a good idea as far as their regulations. Talking with Butler County since it's in our growth area and seeing what they have, they don't care.

I'm sure they don't, you know, Butler County doesn't have a bunch of regulations on that, but um, and K dots are online. They're very straightforward. So, yeah. So, it's really just we'd be happy to entertain it, I think, as a as a planning commission. So, I appreciate your time and thanks Kim. Sorry for the short notice show up and all that. Thank you, Kim. Yeah. Um, sorry guys, a couple things before we adjourn. I just had a couple questions going back to like our things we got coming up. Um, that residential subdivision that you said pending, where's that located?

Drive. where the old drive in is by the between David and White Eagle. Okay. And then are we talking or is this just single family stuff? Is this two to four family or do we have any ideas? So the preliminary plans haven't been formally submitted yet. Um so we're looking at multiple things. So single family there. Um the plan is for it to be probably more of a PDO so we can get it to fit within that space. Okay. um and the size of that location. So, um there'll be a lot of considerations for the board to make. Okay.

Um and then Kimmy, have you heard anything more on the um I can't remember the name of the subdivision, but we approved it way back when that one. Yeah. Have you heard anything? Um we received a phone call from the developer inquiring about some of the um grant programs that we've used for other subdivisions. Um so like the RHID um I I tried to call them back but I didn't get a return call. So other than that I haven't had any I don't heard installed at this point as far as you know that Yes.

Okay. What about the car lot down there on Walnut Street after we, you know, had this special meeting and everything else to and accomodate and then nothing we signed there. So this state has there's a state licensing um and so there's a form that the city has to sign that approves the zoning and says that the zoning is in compliance um for that type of business to be at that location. So, we did fill out that form and got it back to them. Um, and we have not heard anything else from the land owner or the lease source. So, ley I see little activity every once in

I've se I've seen some I have seen some cars there too like when I leave in the evening but sometimes I'm not sure if they're just kind of like pulled over to the side or part of DJ or if they're working in there specifically. setting stuff up. I don't know. Kind of came down. Yeah. So, moving forward. Anybody else have any other questions or anything for Cammy or Sam? No. Okay. Well, you know me. I'll entertain that motion. I'll make a motion. No, Connie did. Please make a motion that we second. Dave second. Okay. I have a motion to second. All in favor? I

we adjourned. Okay.