City Council Work Session - workshop

Well, good afternoon, everyone. We'll call our official June 1st City Council meeting to order. We welcome those who join us in the audience, those who may be joining us remotely to the council work session. And following that, we'll have our public forum later this evening. But with that, as with every meeting, we typically start with the invocation. Got a lot of preachers on the desk, but I'll go to Martin. Let's see. Thank you, Charles.

Eternal Father, we thank you for this day, this opportunity that you have given us. We ask you to bless this meeting. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Amen. I'm honored to have one. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Martin, Councilman Ferguson, appreciate it. All right, council, moving to, I know we had a city manager's report for the work session. Mr. Hewitt, what you reporting on today?

Good afternoon, Mayor, members of council, and welcome to June. I wanted to briefly give a few updates for the listeners as well as for council. In just a moment, you'll be hearing from, a little bit later this afternoon, you'll be hearing from Chris Cauley, our Director of Economic and Community Development. And I'd like to say that he and his staff have been working overtime, not only on behalf of the city, but sharpening their skills as well. With that, Chris was recently earned the very prestigious Certified Economic Development credential and designation from the International Economic Development Council. The CECD is one of the profession's most respected credentials and requires demonstrated expertise across a broad range of economic development disciplines. Additionally, our own Derek MacArthur, who I see, there we go, at the back, recently earned a North Carolina Certified Economic Development designation through the North Carolina Economic Development Association. The NCCED requires completion of advanced professional development program covering topics such as business recruitment, workforce development, entrepreneurship, redevelopment, and economic development strategy. These achievements reflect both Chris and Derek's commitment to professional excellence, continuous learning, and strengthening our community. We congratulate both of these accomplishments and appreciate the expertise they bring. I would also like to say that last week we had a very successful and fun and engaging Doug in the district. So much in fact that we're going to be continuing that this coming Thursday with another Doug in the district. This will be at 6 p.m. in District 1 at College Lakes Recreation Center at 4945 Rose Hill Road in Fayetteville. and I look forward to seeing you all out there, and we're gonna have a great time as well as we did last week, which was a very, very successful program. The courts at Glenville Lake Ribbon Cutting is taking place this Wednesday at June 3rd at 10 a.m. at 730 Filter Plant Road. We have some exciting stuff that we want to roll out to you guys. I think you all will be pleased with that. No big surprises, but if you're able to swing a tennis racket or pickleball paddle, make sure you wear some comfortable shoes. That's all I say. Then the fifth annual Juneteenth Jubilee will be held at Festival Park on Friday, June 19th from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. It will be an evening pack with live music from Misha Fair and Headliner Kirby. It will have a variety of food trucks, local craft makers, and an art walk. and it will be a celebration to remember. So looking forward to, again, seeing you all out there. If you've not had an opportunity to participate in years past, Juneteenth Jubilee is exceedingly well done by our partners at Cool Spring. That's it, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Dr. Hughes. Just a quick question on Doug and the district. How many council members have had it in their district or have not? Didn't they just do eight? June 21st. June 21st.

Yeah.

This Thursday.

Okay. Everywhere else. Okay. Good. Good. Councilman Davis, you had yours. All right, good. Well, getting around. That's fantastic. All right, so thank you, Mr. Manager. So counsel, with that, as we approve the agenda 5.0, if we can move 6.03, I think the presenter, the present attorney is in court. So I want to move it to what, Madam Attorney, 6.06 or 7? 6.06A or B? 6.06A. 606, so we'll do 6.6A. So 603, we'll go to 6.606A. All right. That's a motion, Mayor Pro Tem, to approve? To approve the agenda moving 603 to 606A. All right. There's a motion by Mayor Pro Tem, seconded by Council Member and Dean here. Discussion? All right. Look to you for your votes on that. All right. Who are we missing, Madam Clerk?

Council Member McNair. Council Member McNair.

Don't start that today. All right. She's green. All right. Motion carries. All right. Moving to 6.01, proposed text, UDO. Mr. Harmon.

Let's see. Okay. There we go. So this evening we're going to run through a few text amendments that staff and some, especially the first one, from the community have come to us of little tweaks that we feel need to be done to the UDO to make it easier to use and easier for the public as well. The first one we have is, actually originally came to us as a variance request from one of our industrial uh... companies here in town and after looking at it and them going through their variance uh... didn't really seem to seem like this was a logical step and uh... currently front yards uh... the industrial properties follow just like everyone else and they can only have front yard fences up to four feet high. This would allow them to go up to eight feet high. This not only will help protect their assets on their property, but will also help protect the community of people who might try to get into those properties or the things that are on the other side of the fence so that people aren't harmed by them. As we go through these, you can do as you please, I guess, and ask questions as we go or wait till the end on any of them. The next set you'll see, these are all some of our districts. They were looking to make a few tweaks to these. What we saw was, one, the two different areas here on the chart where the math didn't quite add up. And so we're, one, making the math add up, and then, two, we're taking similar districts, and you'll see here in a minute, like the O&I district, your neighborhood commercial, things that basically typically go in the same areas of town, and making their requirements as far as how many units can go on the property, the size of the properties, more congruent with each other. You'll also see in every case we've gone with the higher number of what is currently allowed for those districts. And in a couple of places, we're actually suggesting an even more, adding a little more density to some of these. So the first one, the O&I District, like I mentioned, going to 4,000 square feet per unit, 10,000 square feet for multifamily, non-residential mixed use, Those would get you up to, right now you only could have 12 units in that. We're proposing 18 and up to 24 if it's a mixed use project. Then the single family attached, which are town homes, going from eight to 12 units. Again, the next one we have is our NC district or neighborhood commercial. Same kind of thing you'll see here, going up to 18 units from 12 for townhomes, going up in your two to four family, which are your duplexes up to quadplexes going from eight to 12, reducing the mixed use size of the property along with these others, the single family and the multi-family, reducing their required property size as well. Then in the DT2 district, again, just trying to get these to where it makes sense. And this particular one, this 20 here under the gross residential density doesn't, it's not needed because you get your density out of your lot area up here under your single family attached to your two to four family dwelling units. MR5, we have looked also at just kind of changing these so it makes more senses easier to understand for people. We've gone from Just trying to, like I said, simplify this one and make it a little more easier for people who are not used to looking at the ordinance. The only thing that we're proposing is kind of a downshift, is in the use table here, and that is taking single family detached with your single-family homes out of the NC neighborhood commercial in the O&I office and institutional We got to looking back at this and we really couldn't find an example of where someone had actually tried to put a single-family residence into one of these districts and it doesn't make sense for that to be allowed since These are commercial districts and we're trying to keep those separate a little bit It won't change any of the other districts, and it'll still allow for your multifamily, your single-family attached, your townhomes, and your duplexes in these two districts, just taking out the single-family housing. And then lastly is with our zero lot lines. developments and currently there's a two-step process if you've got a property that's three acres or less you have to go through three steps to get your approval on this you one have to get a special use permit and then you also have to get a neighborhood compatibility permit Well, we looked at this and saw that there really isn't any reason to have a special use permit for this. We want to take that step out of it. They'll still have the compatibility permit. And the thing you have to realize with the zero lot line developments is everything on the, if it's three acres, whatever's on the peripheral of the development, that has to say the same setbacks as everything surrounding it, everything it touches. It's only the stuff in the center of that development that can go to the zero lot line. And even at zero lot line, it's not completely zero lot line because of the building code. You still had to have a five foot separation, things like that. With that said, those are the proposed amendments that we look to bring back to y'all here in a few weeks.

Thank you, Mr. Harmon. Did have a couple of questions for you. Council Member Hondros, Hare, and then I had a question.

Hare and Hondros.

Hare and Hondros.

I think he was first.

I can't tell. Mr. Harmon, on that first part that you were speaking of about the height of the fence? Yes. Is that just for commercial or professional? It's actually just for industrial properties. Okay, just, okay. Yeah. All right, all right, all right. I was just, okay. All right, thank you. Because I was thinking about some residential folk that were wanting a higher fence. Yes. Okay, all right, thank you.

All right, Councilman Hunter.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Harmon, for the presentation. Are all of these, with the exception of the one I think I heard, would you say are less restrictive?

Yes, all of them are less restricted except for the one of taking out single family residential.

Can you put that slide back up? That was what I understood. I just was double checking. So the question for the attorney, how would that bode and philosophically I'm okay with removing the single family from the zoning district but with the general statute as far as didn't the legislature take action about down zoning? How would this be construed as that or not really?

Councilman Hondrez, I would need to hear the change again. And it may require some research outside of today to give you a good answer.

Mr. Harmon, you want to run through that one real quick?

Yeah, it's taking the ability to have a single family residential out of two districts. So in the future, someone could not

That sounds like down zoning. It's allowable now.

It is allowable now. And it will not be allowable with this change. Yeah, we can talk about that.

Yes, I think whatever the consensus on council is, but I think I would be okay with the rest, excluding that one for further research. And, Mr. Mayor, I'm prepared to make a motion whenever all the questions are answered.

All right. I'll circle back to you. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, but before I ask my question, I want to follow up on my colleague's question. So what you're saying, if somebody wanted to put a single-family residential in an L&I and H&I, it is authorized now, but in this new tax amendment it's prohibited?

No, not in the industrial, no. It's already not prohibited there. This is the O&I, the office and institutional, and the NC, the neighborhood commercial.

Got you. Yeah. My question is going back to Councilmember Harris' question. What other...

comparable peer cities have height limitations on LNI and HNI that are really, I don't know what other, uh, pure cities are looking to do with that. But again, that's why we're trying to, it just makes sense to allow, to allow this, but, but you are still putting limitations on it, even though you've increased it is my question. Well, if you're talking about limitations just in general, I think probably, you know, and this is just an opinion, this is off the cuff, but I think it would be hard pressed to find any communities that don't have some height restriction on it. It just depends on what that height restriction is. Right.

But you're talking about eight feet for towers, government facilities, public safety. What if they wanted to go 12 or 16 feet? You're putting a limitation on this, my question.

Well, so what we also have is a security plan that if somebody has a special circumstance, they can submit a certain set of documents to us, and it has to go all the way up through the manager's signature to allow for something different than what the ordinance allows.

But why would they need to do that if it's L&I and H&I is my question. Okay, thank you, Mr. Harmon.

Before I go to second round for Mr. Hare, a couple things, and some of this may apply to what you're doing tonight, Mr. Harmon, some of it may not. So communities that are looking, that are short on housing, which is everywhere, are repurposing warehouses, repurposing fire stations. I was looking at something the other day and there are a lot of cool, catchy new projects that exist in various communities that used to be other things, used to be warehouses, used to be, so they turn them into law offices. How are we taking this into account? So if you take this and sell for, if it's in a heavy industrial region or light industrial region, am I able to take a former warehouse and make it into apartment lofts?

So, and this would go for probably about any community in North Carolina. If it's zoned HI, it's not going to initially allow that. It would have to come through a council rezoning to allow for it to be changed over to some type of residential use.

So we, you know, we looked at this few years ago, we've got more things that triggers special use and people got to come here. Um, and then we've got some of those things that we get caught with because the zoning, there's no, there's no review of where we want and how we want certain areas to look. So we don't deal with it until it comes before us. So my question is this change, uh, Am I allowed to take a former warehouse building and put apartments in here without doing something special? Hiring a lawyer, coming through with a special use permit?

This change would not change how it would do right now.

All right. And so right now, what's the answer to that question?

Right now, if it's zoned HI and you wanted to convert, say, an old mill, a warehouse, something like that, then, yeah, it would have to come through some type of rezoning to council.

With the new ordinance. Well, he's saying period that this doesn't impact that. So yeah, I guess your changes, the way you reviewed this was because of a situation came up that prompted you to say, Hey, you know, I'm looking at this four feet. Doesn't make sense for business. Uh, particularly in, in these areas, it needs to be a different height. Are we looking at that kind of thing to be able to help us with our residential shortage?

I think that probably is a different side of a discussion. This is more to protect, you know, the existing industrial.

The commonality is we're fixing stuff to fit today's needs, right? This is an antiquated policy that probably needed to be changed. So you're fixing it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think that so the fixes that you see before you today, these are fairly simple, easy fixes. I think the fix that you are envisioning will take a little more putting something together.

I'm not asking you to have it ready today. I'm just asking are we working on stuff like that? What prompts that kind of work? Do we need to do something on our end? That's what I'm trying to draw out. Is there something the council needs to do, or do you automatically just look through the UDO and say, you know, this probably is not a question for you. Mr. Manager, we, last budget year, we put money in here to review processes. It started out with permitting Now it's at inspections, which I was going to get an update on that Thursday during zoning, doing a budget since we're at a year anniversary now. So you don't have to answer that. But what do we do to update and make sure our UDO is changing with the times? the kind of examples that we've talked about. So I know we're cleaning up this because we ran into a situation about that. But help me to understand how your team deals with things like that, those kind of changes that we're talking about. Because communities are increasing density, they're lowering lot lines, they're doing all kind of things to help close this housing gap. In fact, it's encouraged. So what are we doing to be creative to where if we had a warehouse district, we wanted... to be able to have some apartments from it. So I don't have to have specifics to that, but I just want to know, I want to understand how it is that you choose what to look for here and if that's a part of what we asked the review of.

So how we do it, Mayor, and you can chime in, Dr. Newton, and others as well. When you first came on council, we were doing everything from what you would call seasonal text amendments. We were also, I think you stood up two or three different UDO committees. And in addition to that, the staff self-initiated brings items such as defense, the first item that was here. that as you're working with the UDO, either staff realizes it doesn't work for the changing times or you have concerns from the development community who says this isn't how it's done in other places and we'll review it and we'll study it. The item before y'all tonight really is trying to make you aware of work that staff has been doing. The Planning Commission has looked at this, and this is scheduled for you to have a public hearing. We had a robust conversation today among the staff members about how we answer that question and make sure that council understands exactly what we're doing. Because just generating the conversation that you've had, which is a really, really good conversation, we would hate for this to show up on a public hearing for you and you not know it had occurred at all. And so I think we're as a community and as an organization, even again in your time as mayor over the last 10 years, we've struggled with how do we adapt the UDO, how do we stay current, and how do we make sure that the UDO, the changes we're making is transparent, open, and we're also open for the public to give us feedback. So our design tonight, this afternoon, was to show you these text amendments and pre... preview them for your June 22nd public hearing. But the items that you've raised are perfect examples of items that staff can go back and can look at specifically for modifications in the UDO. Number two, you'd ask where we are in looking at the UDO overall city code. And we have put that out to bid twice and we've had no takers either time. And some of it is just the complexity of, I think, of the document and trying to make sure that it aligns not only with what we want to do internally in our existing code, but also what's permissible in state law. So we haven't given that up. And it has, you're right, it has been the budget. The end of this month will be 12 months. I think we gave you and through you and Mayor Pro Tem and the other Council members an update on where we stand on the Barry Dunn study, which was looking at permitting and inspections, site plan review, and then it got expanded to the permitting and inspections realm as well. And I think we're still on the timeframe for September. September for that to come back as a report out to Council on best practices there. But again, today is a preview. of what you'll see on June 22nd. I know the staff is always open to capturing the items that council would like us to look at, and we can definitely focus on how other communities, particularly Raleigh, if you're familiar with Capitol Boulevard, how they have turned some of those mill factories into higher-end departments. We can definitely take a look at that. You would probably want to have a review process so that you could make sure that it was something that was not, it was going to be an attribute, not a detriment, but we can definitely find out how, and staff may already have some information that we can bring to you later about how, or what the best practices are about how to incentivize that type of redevelopment and reuse of mill villages, factories, and industrial things, because when you see it done well, it's very exciting. I think some of the council members mentioned you saw that in Winston-Salem, how they had converted that over. So that would definitely be another asset if the council's interested, we could look at.

All right, thank you. Councilman here.

Yeah, thanks, Mayor. And the mayor, he started where I wanted to pick up from. So as far as housing shortages with industrial areas that become vacant, just like we have in the residential area where we may have, I mean, a commercial area, even right here on Hay Street where we may have businesses on the first floor, but on the second floor we have where residents are living, and that's been up and down this corridor for a number of years. So I would like to see where we have a form of a review because I would... I would hate for us to lose that opportunity if it's something that we can fit in there. And if that is what this, one of these items is for, as far as prohibiting that, then I couldn't support it. If that's not okay. But yes, the review process, I would love to see Yeah, for that to be in place. Absolutely. Thank you. Councilman Hondros.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I agree with most of everything that's been said from my colleagues and the manager, with the exception of we're talking about the potential consultant for review of our development and redevelopment studies. Talking about the internal, I don't remember the exact phrase you used, but kind of the traditional way of how we've been doing things. I think councils I've served on, including this one, is more interested in how do we move forward, what we're going to look like 20 years from now than what we looked like 20 years ago. But that notwithstanding, I think if all the questions have been answered, I'm prepared to make a motion to approve all the uh, recommendations in this, um, or move rather all the recommendations of the presentation to a public hearing on the 22nd with the exception of the one in question. Um, and I'll make a separate motion for that one if that's okay.

All right. So there's a motion to, uh, move these forward. Now the second about John, Catherine Jones. All right. Discussion on that.

So he's going to make another motion.

Yeah. So, all right. So council will look to you for your votes and then look to you for your subsequent motion with the specifics of separate motion. All right. Motion carries. All right. Councilman Hondros.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So hearing what you're saying about repurposing properties, because a lot of times it's not the zoning, it's depending on what that industrial property was doing. Sometimes there's cleanup, environmental or otherwise, it needs to be done to repurpose. So I agree, sometimes just having to come for the rezoning is just an added 30%. to 90 day step that if we can remove may make things streamline those processes and procedures. So I would move that we take the one item we took out which was the removal of single family homes in O and I and LC with the question working with the attorney's office if that's a down zoning or not, the repurposing of properties and dumpster corrals. I didn't see that was one thing I had an interest in that. was not part of this PowerPoint presentation, move those three items to the next business economic development committee meeting in June. And then we can work with, we can work with staff from planning and from the attorney's office on those three items.

I can go for that.

All right. You can go for it enough to second?

Yes, I'll second because I was getting ready not to support.

Okay.

All right.

So there's a motion to do that. Councilman Honduras, I do agree. I think this needs some time. This is the kind of thing that committees are made for, like to spend a little bit more drill down. I would also, you know, last two, three years, I think, Dr. Hugh and I went to Dallas to the housing conference. Communities are doing all kinds of things. They're increasing parking requirements. They're doing all kinds of things. I want to make sure that we're thinking that way and not just dealing with stuff as it comes up, which a lot of stuff we catch, and I know Dr. Newton and his team are doing that, but I guess this probably may, in a deeper conversation, if y'all address that on the committee level, may require some thoughtful planning. We get stuff that comes up here that You know, could be future development for this and right now we haven't circled to the zoning until somebody applies for something that they don't want. And then we have to, we have to, we're bound by by. What the law says, so hopefully if you do that, it can expand it enough to be able to drill down and to figure out how it is that this community plans to look forward to to accommodate housing and growth. So.

That's our goal, and for the record, the next committee meeting is June 16th. It's a Tuesday at 11.30 a.m. All right, all right.

So there's a motion by Council Member Hodge, a second by Hare. You had any, you still had questions?

No.

All right, all right. Council, let's look to you for your votes to move that one. Yeah, I think we covered. Thank you, Dr. Newton and team. Good job, committees, drilling down into that. All right, motion carries. So moving to 6.02. Signs, signs, signs. We've had a lot of conversation about signs. I want everybody to take a woosah, you know. So we can get through this. Take a what?

Woosah. This is an example of how we have been working with that committee for a minute. continual improvement and I'll just use that segue from where we just were to the conversation. That's part of what we have been working with, not just at the staff level, the professional staff, but also the committees, looking at ways that we can make sure that whatever we're doing is enduring, lasting, and we even do some things that people have done in the past. That's why the idea of neo-traditional developments have been very significant. That idea of converting a lot of structures and creating spaces that we're now finding other communities doing exactly what we had been doing, but we've got plenty of room for opportunity. The fact that we have about 800 multifamily units beginning their construction this year, this month, adds to that idea of how much we have where we can work a lot of different areas. For those of you that don't know, we have worked signage a couple of different ways, and you're going to be hearing from Scott Walters, who's been heavily involved in this and he in turn is going to pass it just to show this coordination we have with the committee to the chairman of that committee who will then take it a little bit further.

All right. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, members of council.

What we have is some possible examples of increases for signage, particularly to wall-mounted and window signage. And as Dr. Newton just said, this came about from our business and economic committee as a request, and this will be the presentation that we presented to them. The first example here is for the wall-mounted signage. And this example would remove the five sign limit that is currently in place for signs on wall-mounted signage. That would leave it dysregulated by the one square foot per linear foot or 10% of the wall area, whichever's greater. So there would be no limit on the amount of signs on any wall of a building. it would only be limited by that wall in particular. Example B is much the same, remove the five limit, increase the one to one to one and a half to one, and the 10% to 15% of the wall area, whichever is greater. Example C is to move or remove the DT2 district from the limitations of their subsection below Which limits it currently to one sign per road frontage and it would move that to the same as all other non-residential districts within the sign code Example D is window signage. And in this, we would remove the limitation related to if there's a sign on the wall that you're wanting to cover windows on, the window signage is limited by the square footage of that sign, and also the cumulative 50% of the glazed area on any particular side. And we remove those two limitations and just allow for 50% coverage of every window and door glazing Example E would be much the same, and it would increase that coverage on every window and door glazing to 75%. Example F, still the same. It would increase that allowable coverage on every window and door to 100%. Example G would remove all limitations pretty much on any side of any wall for number of signs or size of the sign and only would regulate by requiring a sign permit for any signs placed on the wall. the committee made recommendations these are the recommendations from the committee that example b for wall mounted signages to do the increase to one and a half or fifteen percent to include uh example c which would draw the d2 dt2 district into the same subsection as all other non-residential districts, and example E for the window signage to allow 75% coverage of all window and door glazed areas.

All right, Mr. Chairman, you have something to add to that from the discussion on the committee? And announce your committee members if you can.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So on the committee, business economic development is the Dean of Council, Councilman Hare, Councilman McNair, and Councilman Davis and myself. I think Dr. Newton and Mr. Walters. covered it pretty well um the powerpoint in our packets slightly different than this one but essentially um because it's it's a little confusing at first to you dig into but it's either example a or b which one we prefer the the committee as mr walters said um our recommendation was example b which would allow a little more signage on wall-mounted signs. The item C, or example C as it's labeled in the slide, is adding downtown too. So you know the downtown one, the majority of the historic downtown has its own sign regulations. I think last term, a couple years ago, council added in addition to DT1, which expands kind of the downtown footprint. So this would allow everything in the DT2 zoning district to follow the same signage as other commercial areas. And then example D, E, or F, was how much window signage, vinyl window signs on the window, how much coverage. 50% is the current. 75 would be more than that, right? Or 100%. And I think there was a lot of discussion between the 75 and the 100. I think we kind of, as a committee, decided on the 75, kind of splitting the difference. And then... Again, example G, adding that, actually removing the limitation of the number of signs on, wall signs on a building as long as it's within the percentage coverage area. And then another thing we looked at which we recommended not to bring was the art, either the mural or commercial wrap of the entire 100% of the exterior of a building. We didn't think that was, necessarily appropriate. So, uh, but yeah, I'll, I'll take any questions are, are the committee's recommendation was B, C, F and G. All right.

Thank you. We approach him. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Councilman Mahandros. And thank you, Mr. Walters. I just want to comment on the two items that was perked my ears the times that I went to your committee meetings and you hit on one of them. That was the wraparound of the facility. you contemplated a hundred percent. Do you think 75% is still where we need to be? I E if you have a wraparound building and you're authorized 75% and the windows are 10 feet tall and I'm five foot tall as a female, do I feel comfortable going into a building that I can't see inside of?

Well, I think you're conflating. Um, the, the rat is the, It doesn't take into consideration window or wall. It's a complete wrap of the building.

I'm just talking about what with windows. You're talking about window signage.

Well, that's up to the business to decide and the customers to decide if they feel comfortable. I asked the one committee meeting where safety was a concern. I asked Chief Bryan. He's here. We can ask him today if you want. If there was any concern from a law enforcement agency, do they have a preference? And he said, correct me if I'm wrong, Chief, that whether it was no window signage or 100% coverage, they had protocols to handle those calls.

So we're just going to leave it up to the facility on whether they want to do 100% or 75% is what you're saying.

No, no.

The recommendation is 75%.

The council can decide 75% or 100%. The recommendation from the committee was 75%. But-

Okay.

So it's an improvement from the 50% not going to complete coverage of windows.

So why did we decide to move to 75 and not keep it at 50?

Well, Dr. Newton, I think it's your team that's over code enforcement as well. I think there's a lot of businesses right now that may or may not know what the window coverage, what the percentage is. There's a lot of them, if you drive around, that have more than 50% coverage. Okay. Different minds can interpret that different ways. To me, that says the demand is there. So do we go write them all NOVs because they're all noncompliant? Or do we say, hey, if they're doing this, the majority of customers and businesses already want this. So why don't we adjust the code so that they're not in violation?

As long as we can get more people into stores, it's not a safety concern. I have no problem with it. My other question is that you was bringing up during your committee was the building mounted signs with two individual tenants that one tenant couldn't construct on both sides of the sign, especially if it was the corner lot. Is that annotated in example A or in example B, where that tenant can only use one side of that sign and not both sides?

Mr. Walters, correct me if I'm wrong, either A or B would allow them to put that. I think that would become more of a landlord-tenant where the landlord allows them to put the signage. But as far as the city, I think it would be allowed on all sides.

We regulate currently by tenant space. So if you're on a corner and you're the tenant of that corner, you would be allowed to use the wall signage on both sides of that building.

Even if you have an A and B suite?

As long as it's your, you're the tenant of that space for that wall. You could cover that wall with a signage currently. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

All right. Um, so Lord, we've heard a lot about these signs and I'm glad, glad we're kind of getting there, but council, I said something to you as this was coming up. So if you look at your emails, um, as this whole thing was, was being talked about, um, I think, My issue was the inconsistency of it, right? Because in the example, you'll see CVS that has mostly all the windows covered. And then you'll see Oak Street that has mostly all the windows covered. And then, of course, we have some other kind of establishments that look a little different, and they're not drug stores or health care providers. And so I want to make sure we're being consistent with the rules, that if one applies to another, if we have a problem with the kind of businesses, we've got other tools in our toolbox to do that. But I wasn't able to get a clear answer as to how... you know, this is what that covers looks like. So I would, I would let my wife go to CVS. Matter of fact, she goes this afternoon and in Oak street. Um, and so I just want to make sure we're being consistent. So it sounds like it, the committee worked through all of that, um, that there's consistency with it. And then two, um, I guess this would probably be a Dr. Newton question. How does the council talk about, um, uh, making plans through our ordinances about the communities, how we want the look of the community to be, right? And this is kind of dovetails into the previous question. that if there's no planning and intentionality about what type of things you're going to allow in certain places or to lift the rules so that you can allow other things in certain places. Um, if what we're trying to accomplish is a different looking community, um, how can all of this fit in? Because we don't want to be a hindrance people. We do hear from businesses that say a lot of rules here, a lot of rules that, and you know, That's objective based on the person matter perspective. But we want to make it easy for businesses and encourage it, and we want to make it consistent. So in your opinion, has the committee covered this? Because we've plowed this ground for a little while.

So, Mayor, as he comes to the podium, I'd like to help and also redirect him to, we've hired in the past consultants. Who was the one that we had for this? Benchmark. Benchmark. It's similar to when we are trying to identify what we want our future planning, I mean, transportation to look like, where we hire consultants to give us our future transportation. When we are... trying to identify what we want, our parks and recreation opportunities to luck in the future. We do a parks and recreation master plan. And so we do bring in those consultants, and we also have an item that will be coming to y'all soonish, I think, Jody, about the pure cities and how we compare ourselves. But Dr. Newton, how would you respond best to the mayor's question?

To your last one first, the committee has spent a considerable amount of time trying to sort out what can work, what will work well now, and not have existing businesses feel like, huh, I wish I could have done it differently. I'd have been doing this. And the idea that five years from now they'll all be saying, hey, we're glad we made those changes. So I think to your last question, and that's observing how the committee had worked through it and in the positive sense of argued with each other, had true constructive arguing, argumentative work to come up with something, I think they've achieved that. To the other broader question as to how do we have the city have its own identity and sub-areas have their own, neighborhoods have their own, We have some things in place, but as you know, we also have area plans, focus plans, where we need to continue to change what the look is. For example, this morning I drove 350 miles uh... even different yes i did very very very early uh... in different communities in places that i have seen and i noticed uh... because you're i never stop seeing things as you're going out of communities i would know when i was in a village area because the way they had to market i knew an area where they had announced uh... coming into a portion of a of charlotte or an area around it we get to know the areas that we live in by at least three things. I'm trying to not make this a full lecture, but just a point to answer. We identify, you identify by districts. People identify by things that they remember. And when you ask a person what they remember about Fayetteville, they'll tell you three or four things that they know about it. now take it to a neighborhood, ask them what they remember about that. If that's what we're wanting it to become or not become, that means we've been successful in the idea of land planning and land development, the idea of us actually creating those spaces, just as we talked about and how I was involved with Kannapolis and what they've become. It's very intentional in the areas that we've worked through. The idea of the department having staff and personnel who can continue to work with that. Yes, we can. Consultants can do it. And more so the people who can say, my kids, my grandkids, I want them to be able to say, my grandpa, my grandma helped with these things. We know how to do it. It all takes resources and time.

Right, and I appreciate that, and I've got to go to Council Member McNair, and it's probably more for a Thursday conversation, but I don't think we can outsource everything. I think that we need to speak and see if this particular recommendation has the planners that we need so that we're not reacting. But that's Thursday's conversation. Thank you for that. Council Member McNair.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just have a question about, I don't know if this is necessary or not, but most of our items are. Um, is there a process for, um, public engagement or is it necessary at this point?

And that's why I was going to ring in for Mayor Scott or Dr. Newton. The item before us is a report out on the committee's work and recommendations, and we'll be seeking council support to forward these items to the planning commission.

And then you have to have public hearings, right?

And it would also come back to you for a public hearing after that as well. So would that meet your interest, ma'am?

So there'll be two public comments.

I just wanted to know that, to put it on the table. Is that... Yes, yes.

So any of these text amendment changes required that process, right?

Yes, sir. Okay.

And if council would like, we can also share, ma'am, and council member Andres and others, we can share it to the Chamber of Commerce and others if you'd like to make sure that they're aware as it goes to the Planning Commission for an opportunity for them to give engagement as well. We can make that happen. Dr. Newton and Scott, can we not? Okay. Yes.

All right. Thank you. So, Councilman Mahindra, is this your committee? Want to make the motion to accept?

I can't. I move that council moves forward to planning commission and then back to council both for public hearings. Example B, C, F, and G. All right.

Please.

All right, there's a motion by Councilman Mahindra, seconded by Davis. He beat you to it there, D. Just for clarification, so this will leave here, go to planning, and then back to us? Or this comes here to a council meeting, to planning, and back to us?

We refer this to planning from here.

Right.

And then it would come. And then it comes to us as the last step. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Thank you. All right. This is motion by Councilman Mahindra, second by Davis. Discussion. All right. Council, I look to you for consensus on that. Right, right. Yeah, I got that. We had a little back and forth before. All right. Oh, she carries. Thank you. Good job. Uh, committee. Y'all are working hard. Um, thank you. Dr. Newton union team. Mr. Hewitt. All right. Uh, council 6.03, uh, Oh four. I'm sorry. We moved. Oh three, 6.04, uh, budget ordinance fee schedules, capital special project amendments and closeouts. Um, Mr. Yates, is this something different than what we're gonna be talking about Thursday? We're through selling the budget, so now it's time to bring the magic markets out. How you doing?

Good. This is a little different. This is to provide you the responses for the various questions and also provide counsel with the parking lot items for your consideration.

Okay.

So at this point, as you pointed out, mayor, um, this is the, uh, council's budget. Um, and we've received over the weekend, a number of questions as well as questions from last Thursday. So we had put those together in accordance with our regular schedule for budget work sessions.

Okay. Which one of which we have on Thursday.

Yes, sir. Okay.

Um, we're ready to open this door today.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm trying to understand the rationale of why we, cause Thursday we had all our, cause you still got some pending stuff that I hadn't seen.

Well, I think we have all, but a couple of items pending. Um, I've all been answered and that's what we were going to do today for the public and for the council is to answer the remaining questions.

At the very least, highlight what they are so that you have them. The other issue I would point out, too, is that in addition to that, Jeff has handed out a notes card for council that lists, starting with, I guess, when we received the parking lot items, and it's really a consensus scorecard. And we have also tried to go in on the scorecard. And if we are able to estimate what the cost of the additions or the desired reductions would be, We've tried to list that. We've also listed whether there are one-time or ongoing expenses and tried to provide as much detail as we could. And then we have space, of course, for council as you work between now and Thursday. If you have notes that you'd like to make or additional requests on the items, we've marked that as well. But one of the things that we have, again, if we could just give us a few moments to at least read the questions that are included here, because if Thursday is meant to be the day in which council wrestles your budget down, we would welcome any feedback that the council can give us about what process you would like to use. Is that... forced choice voting? How do y'all plan?

Well, I mean, here's the concern that I have. You can't open this door and then close it back, right? Because we're going to have a lot of questions about the budget, and we've got budget work sessions set up for this week. That's going to be nothing but budget. And if we need to, we'll have another meeting after that. And the eighth is just, uh, uh, if all things go well date that y'all that was set in the beginning. So we've all actually got the June 30th to do it. But council, I know. This is going to crack a door open. It's going to lead to a longer discussion. So if we could, can we consolidate this to Thursday when we're going to spend three or four hours with you? And then there were some questions that I sent out yesterday I didn't see back in this list. I think it was titled Dr. Hewitt, but Council, I know this is... Councilman McMillan.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, I'm in favor of hearing what Jeff has to present. There are some of these that were direct questions that I think not just us as a council could benefit from hearing the answers to, but especially the public, which wants to weigh in on council priorities in this budget season. I also want to note that I won't be here on Thursday. I stated that. When the proposal was made for that day, and that doubles my interest. It triples my interest in hearing that today. So my hand is good.

Okay. All right. Well, let's see what the consensus is. I'm sure you, well, I know you got some obligation you told us about. Maybe you can call or something, but I see your stuff. But, Council, what's your pleasure on this? Councilman Davis, you had something?

Uh, I understand that council member McMillan's concerns. However, I think because this is a very, um, Discussion that is very important. I think, think that Thursday's more fitting for this conversation. Uh, Mr. Mayor. All right. So, um, so I moved that we table this conversation until Thursday.

All right. So let me, let me give councilman McMillan the. since he pressed his light first. So you want to see if there's a consensus for it to hear it today since you, yeah. All right. All right.

I would appreciate that.

All right. So as consensus by councilman McMillan to hear it, uh, as prepared today, is there a second to that consensus? All right. All right. All right. Council look to you for, uh, and of course, uh, either here today or here Thursday, which will be the opposing consensus motion. If this one doesn't go, so go, those who want to hear it today, uh, are green. Those who want to hear it Thursday are red.

Are we missing customer McNair? No council member here. There we go. Mr.

Hair. All right. All right.

So we're hearing it. Mr. Jeff doors cracked up.

All right. So today, um, like I said, we're just going to quickly review the budget Chronicles. And when, um, as the manager alluded to, we have provided you with a council parking lot consensus scorecard list. So I wanted to briefly go through that real quick. Um, right now they're about 23 items, summer additions. Um, some are, uh, requests for, um, dollar values for reductions. Um, and the hope is that as we have this conversation today, as you alluded to mayor, there's a conversation as well on Thursday, but this will be a, it could be a precursor to that conversation and give you the information you need, um, to reach consensus on Thursday. So going back to the budget Chronicles, we're going to pick up a question 43. Um, and these are questions that we received either last Thursday or over the weekend. How many parks and recreation facilities does the city have in total and what's in the inventory? There are 80 city facilities and 33 district facilities, and this is available as an appendix on our website, and we will send that appendix out to you by the end of the day today as part of that. So that'll help see the difference between the different facilities. How much the right-of-way maintenance is paid for by NCDOT? We receive about $110,000 out of about a $1.5 million budget from NCDOT for right-of-way maintenance. What projects are still in design? This is a list, and we will provide, again, this will be available on our website as well as we can provide that to you directly as an appendix to these questions. But this goes through the various projects that are either in design or are in design and about to be bid. is the downtown, what is the estimated cost of overtime in the downtown? It's about $58,000. That's the estimated expenditure for the current fiscal year. How much is spent on PD technology? And I believe this is specifically for surveillance technology. And that's about $870,000, give or take. The recommended remaining, I'm sorry, the bond framework for the housing bond, how much funding is included for housing assistance. So this is a snippet from Chris Colley's presentation, which based on council direction, we would include that into your capital program, your CPOA, or your CPO for adoption as part of the program. But as you can see, there's a million, close to three million in the total program and a million to allocate and then 2 million to be allocated for that purpose. How much is the cost of school resource officers and traffic officers? The city receives about 2.1 million from that and that's a pass through. So we take the actual cost and bill that quarterly to the school system and the school system then reimburses us completely and it's 100% revenue offset. What is the cost of the Blue Sea renovations and why did it go from 650 to 850. Originally when the project was conceived in the fall, that was just a guess, but after meeting with architects and reviewing and walking the building, and as we got closer to design, the real cost of that building's gonna be about 850. We are at the point where we have construction documents and are about to put that on the street, so we have our best cost estimate right now, and we believe that to be about $850,000. How much is the cost of one mental health response team? That's about $277,000. And that can be seen in your documents as well as the cost for the unit. And H-32 in your budget and H-24.

So for 10 FTEs is...

So just the total units, the unit.

So does that, is that health insurance, the full gamut? So what are we paying? What's the basic, can you send a breakdown of that?

I don't have to have the cost per team is two 77 and that includes a vehicle. So it's three personnel and a vehicle, but you got 10 FTEs. So that is in the total, the total for the department.

It's a lot for us. Yes. So basically three. So this is how many people will this scale up for a total of four. This is three people.

Sorry. Sorry. I misspoke mayor. That's two per team plus a vehicle. So it's a total of four new positions and two vehicles for 540,000 for five 4554.

Okay.

And that's all of the budget chronicles. I believe, Mayor, you asked about the vacancies and the length of the vacancies. We certainly are pulling that list together. That one's a little more involved and takes a little more time. You asked for a different display on the capital program, which we are putting together. I'll have that for you in the next day or so. But I will say that on the vacancies, just a reminder that any of the vacancies that have been held for any amount of time, already included in the vacancy calculation.

All right. You crack the door open.

Mr. Mayor, one of the other questions that was posed was aligning the council priorities to what was in the recommended budget. Beyond the manager's message in your notebook are several pages of how the budget addresses the council priorities and I know we also have it highlighted as to which one of the goals or priorities is addressed. We can print that again.

No, don't want that. This is what I'm asking. The council gave a list of the strategic priorities. So the new initiatives, that address those things. So I've added for community safety, community public safety. You gave some examples today, right, of the recommended budget.

The only new initiative recommended, Mayor, in the budget, in the operating budget, is the mental health response units. There are no other new initiatives.

Okay, so just list that, right? That's all. Absolutely. Yeah, it's easy. Same thing with economic development, right? That the new initiatives that were in this proposed budget That's listed in this proposed budget revitalization and housing, any new initiatives that address that transit, any new initiatives that address that?

There will only be one item on the list, mayor. All right.

Well, then it should take you just a second, right? So, so we left the strategic plan and we have five strategic priorities and we got one new recommendation for all five of these areas. So the paragraph didn't really align what I'm saying, because what we've done, we spent the first three budget sessions talking about tax or no tax. So now I'm trying to shift the conversation to alignment or no alignment. So what I'm hearing you say is the only alignment we have, and I was going to deal with this Thursday, but since you crack it open, it's over. But the only new initiative you have out of five strategic council priorities, from economic development to neighborhood revitalization to transit to community and public safety, are the mental health professionals. No, sir. Okay. Maybe I misunderstood.

No, I think that what Jeff is saying is as it relates to a new initiative, but one of the core goals, um, and again, we can talk about this on Thursday.

Well, I tried to talk about all of it on Thursday because I think that, uh, cause we don't have budget books. We don't have anything.

Well, this was scheduled as y'all's budget work session as part of that item when we laid out the schedule. But the, the, It is somewhat difficult to refute or counter your argument, which is a valid one, except in the case that the proposed budget recommended budget had a three cent tax rate increase just to, just to fulfill what y'all had previously said you wanted to do.

One second. No, no. Cause we've used three weeks to sell it. So we got it.

It's no sales. It's no sales.

But, but, but hold on a second. So I guess what I'm saying is, is that, um, The choice can't be, do we should have left strategic planning with the understanding that you all have spent a day and a half here and came up with a list of things that you're asking us to do that we're not going to do without increasing taxes. And that would save everybody a lot more heartache, right? Or is it that we come back and we figure out how we realign and reprioritize that aligns with the day and a half, the 12 hours that we gave to this process. Now to come back to say that, You've got two choices. You either raise taxes and get what you said that were your priorities, or we don't have a way to do it. So you can have that answer Thursday, but I prefer it in writing. Two is the source of funding for the Blue Street. It showed up on the closeout capital projects. That was $1.2 or $3 million. It was listed as one of the uses of funds on that. You recall when I said send me a list of what came back as a capital project. So are our previous questions attached to this?

They are not attached to the handout for today.

Please don't give me four or five different things. So, so we need to track it from, from meeting the meeting. And that's why I didn't really want to go into it now. So the last time I had three notebooks spread out across the table, because we don't have one tracker that tells us the CIP projects, the source of funds, how much you spent, how much is remaining. We used to have that, but now you've got to take part of it. This listed in one book, which is where I found a 600, 650. I saw it on the closeouts for eight 50. And then we said that it was a remaining 1.2 or three mil from this year's budget. It was going to be used to do it. So I want to know the source of where the funds are coming from. And so the previous Chronicle questions, if you can, if they related, can you, can you also list them near one another?

Yes, sir. We'll be happy to. Okay. For clarification on blue street, um, the 850,000, as we presented to council earlier in the spring, was to always come from the unused OCS budget for the build-out. The project page does list, I believe, 600,000, but that was before, or 650, that was before we knew the scope of the project. I'm not sure, it wasn't ever included as close-out money. It was always included as budget money.

So do you have that list then, since you've got it? You got the list you sent us that was in the last Chronicles? I got it in the car if I need to go out there. So let me go to Mayor Pro Tem, I'll go grab it.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Yates, I just have one question that I had sent an email in reference to, and that was the overage and the vacancy rate.

Yes, sir.

Did we determine how much money that would be since you had already met your quota by the middle of May?

Sir. Uh, yes, sir. We believe that's probably going to come in around 900 to a million million dollars pending the use of overtime. And that's the challenge. Um, in estimating it was still a couple of paper. It's left in the year is we have to net that against the overage and overtime to do that. So we believe it will be a little bit more than what we anticipated. Um, at most, uh, probably in that million dollar range.

So if that's the case, and now we're down to two and a half cents,

Um, keep in mind that's one time money.

So you would, um, but if we could find the one time money, I E the, uh, uh, convention city study or the, let me see what else you got on here. Just off the top of my head, the sound thinking, those are one time. Absolutely.

Councilman, if you, um, and the sound thinking is funded, but I'm not just using that one time funding off the top. Absolutely. If you went through the list of the scorecard items, these ads, and you wanted to use that million dollars to do these ads, then that would be council's discretion. It would just be a use of fund balance for next year.

Thank you, sir. Council member hair.

Yes, sir.

See, that's where I was a little confused on the, um, OCS building, because I thought that 800, I think it was 887, 850,000. Okay. 850,000. You stated that, uh, That was covered by, was it, was it a part of the startup funding? So if you remember, if I may counsel, but now it's, it's looks like it's an additional, so that's why I was thrown off.

No, sir. So what, um, I think where the confusion lies. is I think we're mixing a few different things. So when the OCS back, we'll go back to the beginning when we set up OCS and the funding was given to OCS at that time, we didn't have a director and it was the four pillars that we, but we hadn't worked out programming. We hadn't done any of that stuff. So in 2026 this year, we brought on John about a year ago and he has been slowly building out his program as he's built out his program that didn't expend all of the 2.3 million. from FY 26, it's a little over, it's about 2.4 million and change. And he's still done his grants and other things. So our recommendation to the council was to take the remaining funding from 2026, instead of letting it lapse to fund balance was to use it to renovate the blue street center.

Correct.

So that is one time, essentially it amounts to a use of fund balance, but it is identified from this year's savings. And that's where we had, that's where we brought it back to council. laid out the plan for blue street. And we believed we had council, um, consensus to move forward with doing that. So we've gone through the design foot, the design phase of that and upper renovating the upper and lower buildings. We have the plans and we're going to put those out. And we believe that that while six 50 identified in your budget document and the CIP document, we intend to bring back a budgetary item in the next meeting or two for 2026. to essentially paper that transaction to be able to show that correctly and allow that construction progress to go forward so that we can build out that Blue Street Center for the OCS use and community use.

So to start out money that we were using as we built the department, are you saying that that money now, all of that money is has been spent, it's expired.

And this is a new nine item. When we do the 850, that will have consumed it all. Because keep in mind, that's an operating budget item. So on July 1st or June 30th, that appropriation will expire. So to not take it from next year's funding or to take it from tax rate or short another project, but keep it in the OCS vein, what our recommendation was to use that lapsed OCS money to go ahead and do that renovation on that center so that there's a facility for john and his team part of our strategy again as part of our strategy to to get out of festival park plaza i'm out of that building from renting that space thank you mayor for a chance i don't think it was the issue with where it was going i think the only issue was the amount that was described uh... into the book

Before I go back to, uh, well, before I go to Mr. Mayor, what is this increase in childcare opportunities that doesn't have a dollar value? We just had that at the city County liaison meeting. That shouldn't be a dollar value. They're under utilizing the facility as we speak. So it's dollar value. Are we talking about?

Yes, sir. That, um, so when you get to the, um, city, uh, council parking lot and the scorecard, those were items added at the, um, some of those items were added in our last meeting. Um, and some didn't come with a dollar value, but these are, I'm assuming. And I defer to Councilman Mellon because he put that item up there. But these were items added that didn't have dollar values in some cases that were additional that I believe Council had interest in. So I'll defer to Councilman Mellon because it was his item he added.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you for that clarification. That is something that I added on. I think into that discussion, Mayor Pro Tem, maybe you can bring in what has been talked about at the City Council Liaison Meeting. But I recognize that in all of our talk about resources, childcare is something, it seemed like we had consensus on, especially after that group came to us last month with the need and the opportunity. And we wanna make sure we talk about that at this time of the year.

Well, we did during the, uh, city County liaison meeting, they have a facility that holds 135, uh, kids. And I think their current enrollment is 22, I believe. So that is a underutilized facility that would behoove all of our city employees to use that if possible. But that was only for city employees, if I'm not mistaken. Mr. Mayor.

Oh yeah. So thank you. So. There was on the closeout, there was public safety and general government. What was that?

When you were looking at, can you share with me?

You have 1.148 mil reallocated, funded from CIP closed out projects, which we're waiting on the list to see how you, what items were closed out and what were not. Then on the other book, which I didn't have my second book out there, Didn't see how people, there were a list of, uh, closed out projects that included things like the Hurley Plaza and had some other projects on there that are different from these.

I assume you're referring to question nine, question nine.

Yes, sir.

Question nine. Okay. So, um, keep in mind the question nine is where the funding went in that project. And, and, um, so that is the question for question nine was specifically what projects were receiving. funding from recommended project closures. So that schedule that you had asked for, which shows project-to-date funding source for all the different types of funding and the new funding, we'll have that schedule. We should have that ready for you for tomorrow, by tomorrow. And the additional, the recommended for closure list, we realized after our conversation, for instance, it reflected the senior center as the full value, not the remaining funding. So we'll have a revised schedule for that. So we have those for you to give to you, Mayor. We just don't have them right now. That takes a little bit of staff time.

That's what I said. I don't know why we... So that will be there. But, Council, we've got... public forum later today, but the budget is complicated. I know you all going to have some more questions. I certainly do, but, um, you know, I'm hoping that, uh, but the public safety piece on there. So basically what this is for the listening audience, there were projects that had money remaining, which totaled $1.1 million, a little over 1.1 million. And when we asked about. the use of that as we're trying to do all we can not to add taxes to, to this budget. Uh, we were given a list of things that utilize that money or that are being recommended to utilize the money and public safety was on there, but it didn't have any specifics. It just had 118,000 public safety and they had 144,000 general government. So the notes may be in my other book, but

Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, our interest today was just to cover the nine questions that you can crack it open like that were on there as well as to hand out the scorecard. Yep.

So, um, those are the, our interest today, but Jeff, um, if it pleases the council, if I would like to run through, or if you would like, I could run through the scorecard and be sure that we've captured everything. Everybody has added to date, um, for your discussion on, on Thursday. Um, the first item was the Langdon street improvements. And that's streetscaping and street improvements, about $350,000. Jasper Street was on the board. We don't have a dollar value for that yet. We are working with public services to get that full dollar value to figure out what that is. There was a 910 Fest request from the Fayetteville Next that came in, about $350,000. And during that committee report out, it was discussed as a budgetary item. So we added that. We have removed the Dogwood Festival. We confirmed with the Dogwood Festival that the $75,000 was a one-time funding request, not an ongoing funding request. Were you reading off this list right here? We took it off this list. It was originally on the list, but we have confirmed that it was a one-time item that we've already paid. So unless the council would like to add additional funding back for Dogwood, we have taken it off the list as we had put it on. We have the downtown manager position. We discussed that. during a work session at 150,000 housing needs assessment at 71,000. As, um, the manager mentioned, we have put the UDO study out twice with no takers. Um, and the thought was at the time that if we had had enough money left within the UDO study was to use some of that leftover funding to do the housing needs study. So that remains on. We don't have an answer for that at this point. Um, the convention center study we're estimating about $125,000. drones as first responders. Um, total is about 800,000. The service contractor, the lease agreement for the drones is about 200,000 a year and the additional staffing costs as that program comes into maturity will be about 600,000.

And so you were going to verify that because what we heard were two different things. You priced it as having to have sworn police officers do it versus people who are certified in operations. So can you have,

clear, uh, we will verify that that was the dollar values of the proposed program from the police department.

Right. And then it, it, it was, um, I think when chief presented it, it was one year, uh, was it no charge, but the average was about, uh, the 400 because it was a five year or four year agreement for, for the total. But can you verify your personnel costs?

We absolutely can.

And I can then say that even if, if it is civilians, they would be new civilians, uh, If there are police officers, they could be existing police officers who could also be pressed to do so.

Like the new mental health workers. Yeah, we got it.

Not the new mental health workers. The new mental health workers are completely new staff, which you don't have.

Right. You're saying you would have to hire new people. Yes.

Which is an additional cost if they're just like that. Similar to that. Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right.

All right. And then we had, um, additional mental health response teams. There are 200, as we discussed a few months ago, 277,000 per unit. Workforce development funding of $100,000. I believe, Mayor, that was your ask that you put on. West Fayetteville Community Center, the $100,000, this would only be a study or a feasibility study. We put on for reference the Senior Center East cost about $10 million to build. So something comparable would probably cost you that, but we don't have an estimate on that at this point other than the study amount. Additional right-of-way maintenance. We didn't have a dollar value. That was, I think, Dr. Harry, you had asked for that. We didn't have a dollar value attached to that, but we do know we currently fund about $1.55 million, and that can be found in your budget book under G30. So we'll be happy to take a dollar value if you have an interest in putting that in. Increased child care opportunities, as discussed a few minutes ago. Reduction elimination of the sound thinking agreement. That's about $287,000 as it's coming up for renewal. Reduction of FTP, I'm sorry, FPD surveillance technologies. That's about $658,000 exclusive of sound thinking. So if you were to eliminate them all, you would add those two together for next year's budget. So we broke out sound thinking separately because that was a separate question. Reduce mental health response teams. I think the question was related to could we stand up two next year, or is it one, or is it a half? what's the ability to stand that up. So the value against two 77, if you want, depending upon how you wanted to stand that up, that'll change that, that value. Um, the maker space project, some discussion about that. Um, the total project is about $2 million. We are about, we have about 1.25 left. If you added with the four 50, um, we put some other funding in there, uh, related with, if you remember, we used ARPA interest earnings. to be able to do that project. We're in the design phase of that, and we'll be going out to bid with that as soon as we have those design docs.

Wait a minute. So what I understood you to say was that you have to have the money appropriated before you enter into a contract. Yes, sir. Okay. So the funding for the design, because I know the architect, you're saying you had the completion of the design, so that was funded. Previously.

Yes, sir.

So you can put something out to bid before you've got the money set aside and appropriate.

We already have the money appropriated.

So why is it on the budget? So I'm confused. So there's 450 that you're proposing in this budget to use for it. You're telling me you've already got it set aside. It's just encumbered. But he didn't have enough to enter into a $2 million contract with $1.25 million.

Well, what's remaining is about $1.25. That's the shortage. Right, and the difference was made up by the $4.50.

Right, but money has not been dispersed.

No, sir, we have not entered into the contract because that contract would have come back to the council.

And that's why it's back on this list. So can you revise that $4.50 and put $1.25 on there?

Yes, we can do that.

Thank you.

West Fayetteville transit expansion, we don't have a dollar value for that. And we have homeless initiatives, which we did not have a dollar value for. And then we had frozen police positions. There have been any number of requests, and we went over this, I believe, on Thursday. But for one position, it's $137,000. The new century track reduction, taking that off of the project list, that's about $181,000. The cost of $1,500 bonus for all employees is 2.9 million. For non-step employees, it's about 1.43, and for step employees, it's about 1.5. The cost of a 2.5% salary increase for non-step employees is about 2.16. And then bus stops, shelters, trash cans, benches, Another, particularly I think the request was for the University Place Apartments, was about $21,000 to put that in. And we don't have, I believe also the cost estimate was around, if we changed our standards, what does that look like? We don't have that estimate at this point. So with that, that's your scorecard. We left you spaces for you to add, take notes. Really this was just to be a tool to help give you as much of the information as we can. for your deliberation, and that's what we'll look to you on Thursday for you to have that discussion. I guess, Mayor, we'll bring back a couple more items just to answer the Budget Chronicles.

Yeah, so just to recap what those are, because Council Member Hondros and McNair are waiting patiently, you're going to give us the entire list of the FTEs over 120 days, right? Because I know you said you've calculated the ones that you thought would be eliminated, but you're going to give us the whole list to review. That was the question.

Uh, actually no, sir. For clarification, when we do the estimate on, um, vacancy savings, it's not done by position. It's done by aggregate savings. We compare payroll over payroll and the trend on payroll because every position is not worth the same amount of money.

So this is what I'm asking back. Can you send every vacant position over 120 days and then you can calculate however you do it. So it was that it was the entire CIP, uh, list of, of, of, uh, projects to allocation and the remaining funds and the source. Right. And then it was the, you're going to answer the questions about the initiatives and the five strategic priorities that came out of this, which are also carry over from the last, uh, strategic planning, but, and the only new initiative that I heard was the mental health component.

That's correct. So that's the only different thing you've got this year from prior year.

Right. Okay. All right. All right. And so counselors, we shouldn't be asked why we got a parking lot full of stuff because we, it's not in there. It wasn't, it wasn't included. So the parking lot is going to be the parking lot. And so this, does this capture even the latest stuff that was on, that was added to it last Thursday? Okay.

I believe, and that's one reason we wanted to put it in front of you because I believe the last thing we got was over the weekend for a parking lot item was from Dr. Hare. Now, to your point, you asked some questions. Oh, yeah.

And those chronicles, don't you publish those chronicles?

We do, and we are updating today. the latest ones and as soon as we have the remainder of the questions that you asked, we'll put those out there as well. So those are updated as soon as we have them.

Okay. But, but to be clear out of all the meetings, these are the only parking lot items that we're tracking.

We believe we have captured them all. If not, that's not the case. or if there's something we missed or something you would like to see, please let us know that.

Okay. All right. And, uh, so I'll go to council member McNair, Mayor Pro Tem and Jones. Oh, I'm sorry. Hondros McNair, Pro Tem and Jones.

I mean, I think McNair was first. So I'll go after ladies first. I'll go after McNair.

Thank you. I just want clarity on Langdon Street. My colleague may mention that the estimated cost was $150 on the parking lot last week, which my clarity was $350.

Am I correct? I don't believe that number's ever been different than $350 on Langdon Street. Hasn't it, Michael? It's always been $350. $350. And that includes streetscape center, up lighting, paving, vegetation, and all the, there's a, so that was an initial estimate, but I believe since day one, it's always been 350. Okay.

Thank you, Jeff.

All right. Councilman Hondros.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Yates. I have a lot of budget questions, but to keep it on kind of on topic for tonight, and we can talk about the rest on Thursday on slide seven. When we have the technology, PD technology, which includes sound thinking slash shot spotter. So we got an aggregate total of 868,444. We got sound thinking or shot spotter is 210, 210,000, right? Annual subscription. Yes, sir. But then on this, it says, There's a separate line item. It's broken out of the FPD surveillance, and it's $287,000.

So that is the renewal cost for next year. This is what the existing contracts are today. For 26. So we can make those tie out, but they were answering two different questions.

Right, so this is for this year. The 287 is correct. It's for next year with the renewal.

That's what we believe. We have been working with that, but we haven't put that item on yet for council.

Very good. Just wanted to double check that, and then the other thing on this page, because the mayor asked this question, and I was a little confused last Thursday when we were talking in the budget session, that 2027-07, the drones as first responders?

Yes, sir.

Okay. We operated, and I would love Chief to hear his perspective on this. We operated the FPD, I think now we're up to 460, 450 sworn positions filled now. We were almost 100 vacancies, and they didn't miss a beat. When this item was presented, we got the technology contract, service contract for 202,684, and then we're told we can't operate it, even though we're operating a similar system already, unless we have new personnel. So that just didn't, it's hard for me to wrap my head around. We ran a department with 100 vacancies, and we can't implement new technology without six new positions. Can someone verify that's the case? Or if we got the technology, we do have staff members that could operate it. I need a yes or no on that either today or Thursday.

I think the chief can come forward and we'll definitely have it on Thursday because there may be additional questions about that slide that you referenced. But the chief's, um, chief, come on. I don't want to speak for you fully, but the, um, Item would be that he has six officers that he would put in a special unit. He would designate those to work that in addition to other tasks. I think that's how it was.

So ideally, in reference to, and this is what we're talking about, the real-time crime center. We're currently operating our real-time crime center about 18 hours a day. And then for any special event, then we'll go ahead and extend those hours. As we move towards having a 24 hour operation, this 6 additional folks would assist us in being able to meet that 24 hour operation. But as I stated before, based on. The, the lack of funding, we would be able to utilize some of the personnel that we have in order to make up that difference.

I appreciate that clarity, sir. Thank you.

The chief, just to be clear, this is not just hiring people to operate these drones. This is a new unit. That'll be a 24 hour. Rapid response, is that what you're saying?

So this is our CIC. And so currently our CIC operates with, we have a supervisor and then there's numerous analysts that are in there. So ideally, the analyst or the supervisor explained to me as we move towards a 24-7 operation, she would request these additional bodies in order to be able to be full 24-7.

So my point is to ramp it up to the 24-7, this is not something specific just because you're adding this piece to it because it's it's it's more comprehensive than this the drones right well it would be more comprehensive than just the drones but also for the expansion of the cameras and everything else as well yes sir right so it's all inclusive the part of your public safety strategy that is correct yes sir chief um and uh jeff and michelle um there was uh

requested and not funded for a full expansion of the CIC. Is that correct? I think it's on page G20. And so the drones as first responders would not fill that gap completely. It would be I we'll clear that up for you on, on Monday, mayor there, there, uh, Thursday, Thursday, we'll clear it up for you on Thursday.

But what made it to this list were the drones. So the, the build out, it's just good. The reason I was asking that to understand the bigger, the bigger picture that you had a bigger, um, More overlapping plan and just comprehensive, but what we put on here was just the technology component.

Right? And this is what I wanted to frame for for the council too. And I'm looking forward to Thursday is last year. I think you gave us was at 1.6M dollars. For the camera expansion, and we have expense those funds.

That's correct. That's the phase 1.

And that's what she said was phase one of. And so we started when we looked at your retreat and it was how do we do your number one goal, which was safe and secure community. It is everything that was added. We have not finished all of the work that has been assigned in prior years. We have not been able, and it's not a lack of understanding. It is a lack of funding and having to make those prioritizations. And so on Thursday, we will pull back the request that was made for the full-time CIC, which I think has...

a lot of value of which the drones as first responders would be an integral part but it is not the only part for the cse so if that's the case right if you only we only funded phase one then if you're saying that you were not able to get any new initiatives here phase two to me would have been a new initiative it didn't mean a new idea it would have been We did phase one last time, phase two is a new initiative, and it's a carryover. And it's in public safety and having a more viable community, but it didn't make the list. See, that's the part that I have. It did not make the list of something that you've already made investments in. And so what good does phase one do us if we're not going to get it to phase two? What was, what was the, what was the thought process to deny that to make it to your recommendation?

It's my recommendation and the, the rationale that we use. And again, we can cover this. Um, and I'd love to sit down with you, mayor. You have, we, and anyone else to ask questions between nine Thursday, the budget is based around a simple print, simple principles. people and finish what we started and the money ran out before we were able to add additional initiatives. The one penny that is additional for operations. It's detailed in every session we've had with council and in your budget document. It's for operations, just to continue some of the things that we have. 544 for the parking, and then other odds and ends, and that's also detailed. The capital, which is the two cent recommended, are things that continue out to give us the capacity to do those capital one-time things. What we have, and I know that Jeff gave the answer, and it's a true answer about the mental health response units. What you've also done with staff, let's say on the mature communities on housing is, Chris Colley and his team came forward how he planned to do the affordable housing, how we were gonna expense the $12 million. That was a new initiative that you guys would have talked about at the retreat, which we're bringing to fruition. We've also talked about the whole idea of transit. that some of the things that you and I have talked about, Mayor, that in order for the $17.69 million, I think, expansion of transit was that we need to lobby the General Assembly to give us the authority. I got that.

That's longer term, big picture. I'm with you. I guess what I'm trying to zero in on is if we follow what you just said, is that we want to complete what we started. doing phase two to make it operable would have been in line with that. Instead of, and so what we have, you have only two different ways to pay for this stuff. Either you raise taxes, which that's a no-go because of the current environment that people are in right now, or you cut and find it from somewhere else. And my point is, if you found 1.2, 1.1.48 million dollars How did the maker space raise above that if we're prioritizing it based on what we came out of the strategic planning with? How did you make a decision to say I'm going to put 450 here instead of finish funding these cameras? Or how did you say I'm going to improve New Century's track instead of finish funding transit or neighborhood revitalization? or to say, I'm going to do general government or say, I'm going to hire, you know, 10 people or, or two crews of, of a, of a new program that may only need one initially, you know, you know what I mean? And that's where I'm saying that we need more, we need more in alignment of what we say and, and not, have us try to guess and find money. Because right now, we've got a shovel out trying to find.

It's my recommended budget. It's not Jeff's.

I got you. And I'm looking at him because he's there. I know, and I'm over here.

But my point to you is that this was just a recommendation. I got you. And so when we talk about the makerspace, you and I have talked everything about the fellow who was going to do youth programming there. That money is clearly available to repurpose. That's why it's clearly shown on the repurpose list. All of those things. I would not say that phase one of the camera system is a bust. I think that we did build out of the server room so that we could do expansion as money comes available. And we were successful in doing that. And you can always add other cameras. But that's also one of the reasons that you didn't see the drone as the first responders. People think I don't like drones. That's not the question. The question is, is that are you bleeding or are you leading on technology? And how do you be able to support it? Those are the challenges that we went through to try to pull as many threads as we could together across as many sectors as well as this organization's ability to get it done all in one year. But clearly, if there are things where we missed the mark that council would like to see done differently as you're articulating, absolutely, this is the appropriate time and we're ready to receive that direction too.

All right, Councilman Jones. Thank you. I'll make mine quick. The last one, bus stops, shelters, trash cans, and benches. I see it's noted, and this may have been somebody's, University Place Apartments. My act was to see what that looked like citywide. I know we had to look at, we were looking at possibly lowering the thresholds, and Ms. Neal brought forth some criteria. She gave us the cost of each, the benches versus the full packages, why some would, would not, um, qualify. So I would still like to see that even if we don't get to it, that's fine. But I still would like to see it again, university place, uh, again, what I know that may have come from someone else. So for me, even with what I asked with citywide, I would still like to see the same thing with university place. What is the ridership look like compared to the standards? But I would like to at least for, It may not have any immediate, I mean, it will have some budgetary implications, of course, but we may not necessarily know an amount until Ms. Neal says, okay, this is X amount of places that potentially could be done based on everything. So I would like to kind of see that citywide.

Yes, sir. And one of the thoughts and showing it to you this way, we did have the specific request for the, um, university place apartments area. Um, but what we try to do is also show you what the cost per unit would be. So the council said we wanted to do 10 more units or something to that effect. Cause we haven't worked across the spectrum with a miss Neil to be able to identify all of those places where they may be. So if I would suggest that the council had interest, you would give us say a target of. We want to do 10 more units across the city. Here's the value. So we tried to give you a per unit cost, just like the mental health units, those things. So you can scale up and down based on your, your interest.

Yeah. And I would, that was my thought process around 10, 10 to 12, just given the cost that she had. had given citywide. And again, I know it makes, she mentioned a phased out thing as far as looking at the entire city. Of course, I wouldn't be looking for during the whole city in one year. That's definitely.

And we can add that to the parking lot. If you'd like to see 10, 10 units, if that's what you'd like to see, I want to go to my original court.

And then I still would like to see then since we're doing that, if she could, since we were is based on ridership, based on the city, based on what university place apartments are also doing as well. Cause I know she said she had to prioritize it based on the current rubrics that we have in place.

We can absolutely put that on there for you.

Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Chief, can you come back up here for a second, please? Because I'm trying to piggyback off what the mayor was talking about when we were talking about phase one with cameras. I brought forth an initiative to make sure we put license plates readers, I think in total $1.2 million last year for the southwest part of Fayetteville. Is that fully funded in operation?

That's part of phase one? Yes, sir.

Now, my question is what the mayor talked about. What was phase two and was it part of Southwest Fayetteville?

So phase two is an additional expansion of the cameras throughout downtown air and the Southwest.

Now, I'm kind of perturbed because I don't want Southwest Fayetteville to get the reputation if they're being left behind and left out once again. We're talking about this initiative of drones, and I want to tell you something that was compelling to my community, where I live in Rayconda. And Chief, I've talked to you and Joyce and Petty and Hicks about this personally, about where we had an autistic child that was lost, barefooted, nothing but in his underwear in the wintertime, around 35 degrees. Was out there for about six hours. Do you know where he was found? On the railroad tracks. You know who felt a drone drones saves lives. Drones do things that humans can't do with the heat radar sensor or whatever it was. We probably had four fire trucks, probably 30 people from our community, probably 12 police officers or police cars out there all trying to look for this individual who was also, I don't know what you call it, but couldn't speak. Autistic. I need these initiatives to move forward when it comes to public safety. When we talk about these things on the parking lot, I think the mayor hit it right on the head. When we look at this parking lot, we should prioritize it according to our strategic plan. And public safety is number one.

And Mayor Pro Tem, that's also why we published the list of not funded within the existing budget. And we've done it for all of the departments. I remember very well that conversation about that young man and how, I can only imagine how amazing it must have felt for y'all to have seen movement, the drone operators to see that and to be able to rescue and reunite that child. This is, again, not mistaking the need. It is just trying to balance the limited resources. And that is published in each in the book by every department. And There are any number of other initiatives which are listed, not only in the police, but in some of the others too, that if you have time between now and Thursday, if you've not already done so, to look at what was requested but not funded. And then there's also a separate list of new initiatives that were not recommended and not funded as well, which is the department's effort to try to look into the future, where we want to be and what we might be able to do But simply put the money, um. The resources were not there within the base tax rate to do those things and the other items that we had heard from the community council and.

Thank you, Mr match. I got it. But my final question for Mr gates and chief, you asked for 38. still have 38 vacancies at 5.2 million. If we was to cut that in half, that would free up 2.1, correct, Mr. Yates?

No, sir. Right now, the 5.2 million, that is not reflected anywhere. So to do any of the 38 would be an additional, any number of those would be an additional to the existing recommended budget. So you'd have to either cut down or take out something out of the existing budget or add back additional revenue.

So the same way he's going to send us positions across that looks across the whole organization, like he just did right there. You know how you just put a number with a number of positions.

That's what we were talking about. Yeah. Do the same thing. All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All right.

Councilman here. Thank you, mayor. Uh, Mr. Yates, uh, Dr. Hewitt. Um, and I was going to wait till Monday, but since we're doing some budget chronicles or, During our retreat, thanks to my colleagues to my left and my right, supported me with making our older neighborhoods a priority. And as we have gone through the budget on a number of these last few Thursdays, tell me where Um, what is the strategy plan for that priority in the budget?

So, um, if I, if I may councilman and I got my book, if you want to tell me where it is, um, as mentioned, the only new, the only new initiative was the mental health. We do have the $12 million housing bond projects, which include, um, home ownership, uh, homeowner rehab in those, um, qualified areas in the city. but the budget was built around maintaining the existing services. So we didn't reduce the services to those areas in those neighborhoods. We maintained them. Um, there was no new additional funding provided to any of the, um, to any of the priorities. It was really maintaining the services that we had in alignment with those priorities.

So for me to, as we did individually with whatever ones we bought to our colleagues brought to the table, Working hard to ask my colleagues to support the old historical, or the older neighborhoods, because we are growing and we build out west and east, and as we continue to grow in the city, the only relatable part for that priority is to maintain.

Yes, sir. That's correct.

But it also includes, sir, um, filling in sidewalks and areas. It also includes splash pads on north street. It also includes all of the work that Chris calling his department does as it relates to, um, home renovation and repairs. It also includes the pocket parks and includes the stuff that you mentioned, um, about the recognition includes Marcus and choice. Um, there is, We can, your retreat was in February. You came back and we clarified and added in the mature neighborhoods. It's been less than 60 days ago. By that time the budget was largely, was largely baked. That does not mean that we did not look for opportunities. The budget is based around your goal areas. Your priorities are also where we're gonna put our additional work focus. But every year that council has done a strategic plan, It is reaffirming where you want to put your energy and your money. We've never had the ability without additional resources such as council and the community provided with parks and recreation, infrastructure, public safety, housing. for us to come back and say we were gonna dedicate a lot of money. Some of the things that we have done, which has taken out some flex in the budget, have been to, when we prioritized additional monies for sidewalks, all of those go to support those existing neighborhoods. And I hear what council is saying, but this budget is fundamentally not drafted any different than the budgets that we have drafted for 20 years with the strategic plan. This affirms, it tells the public where you're putting your money. Your number one goal is public safety. And more than 110 or 120? 120. $120 million of your budget is going toward public safety, which supports those historic neighborhoods, mature neighborhoods. All of the work that we talked about on the parking lot about Langdon Street, that was a late ad that, as you and I had discussed, it came about after the budget was created when you and I had breakfast, and I said, you know, I'm going to ride over and take a look at Langdon Street, and that's how that got added. All of the investments that you're making on Fire Station 2, Fire Station 4, all of those are that, but if this is not... There simply is not, in this community, without the direction from council about something that you wish to remove from the budget to create capacity. Even when you look at the parking lot, the council has added more than two or three million dollars worth of stuff on the parking lot. you are contemplating a study on a convention center, which we desperately need. If you build it, you're committing to 60 to 80 to a hundred million dollars worth of debt.

Right. But Mr. Mr. Manager, I think you way over here because one, we hadn't got the feasibility back preliminarily. You see that there may be a need to, you know, it could be an opportunity to find another source down the road to where you can actually go to the legislator and make a case for hotel tax or something. So that's, that's neither here nor there. I think where, where we need, cause we've got seven items. So this is why I didn't want to open this because, so what we're going to, we're probably not going to get through that. We're going to have to pause it, have our commitment to the citizens for our six o'clock and then, and then rehash that. But here's the thing. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I, To me, it takes a little bit more creativity than what we have. If I had to grade this, if you tell me that this was already baked in shortly after February when we met, then I feel like I wasted our time and that our priorities were not it because it's already done. So why don't we have the meeting? We have a budget process. Because we come up with what we want to see happen in this community based on what the people who elect us say they want, and we give it to you to come back with options. To me, this wasn't your best work to come back to say, you give me three cent extra in taxes or you don't get anything other than the one thing that we've chosen that we prioritize. Now when we start ripping stuff off, like I said, How do you reconcile what he just asked and what he just asked about Southwest Fayetteville? I'm going to take $1.2 million and plug in $4.5 million for a maker space that I don't have a use for. Or how do you determine that I'm going to fix a track or And when we ask about money that is somewhere that hasn't been designated, Utah's has already been used on uses that don't align with that. To me, this is not your best work.

I mean, I've sat through a lot of this. I would love to sit down with you.

But I got Councilman Davis. We got to move on because people are here and they've got recognitions and other things. So, Councilman Davis, go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. My question was for the chief, in reference to the drones. Chief, is he still in the room? He is. He is right there. I have a question, sir. So my question is, will the drones be a potential replacement, not saying I'm against ShotSpotter, just asking, will it eventually become a replacement for ShotSpotter?

It's a separate tool, sir. Yeah. It's a separate tool. Whether or not it's funded by city council will be your determination whether or not. So it's a separate tool.

But that tool can be used in those areas, correct? That's correct. All right. Thank you, sir.

all right so council we've got to press this one we've got uh we've got some special folks that walked in and we want to make sure that we get it um mr yates we appreciate the update um again just to make sure we clear all all positions company-wide um organization-wide that have that are over 120 180 days i know that's not how you do it but that's that was the ask um there was some specificity coming from, uh, what the general government and public safety allocations for, from the closeout funds were, you were going to clean up the list of the CIP projects that had splash pads for Hurley Plaza and some other things on it that are no longer tomorrow in play. And you're going to find a, uh, a CIP list that actually had the projects, the source of funds, how much is remaining and how much has been dispersed, right?

Yes, sir.

Complete list with everything on one page.

Well, it won't fit on one page, but we'll give you by. They used to give us a spreadsheet about like that. We'll give it to you by fund, Mayor, because it won't fit on one page, but we'll provide it to you.

Okay. All right. So, Council, I think we touched it. Yeah, we didn't get that. All right. Stay tuned Thursday. All right. So, all right. 6.05. home program and voluntary grant reduction option. This is Chris calling. So the federal government is cutting head. Chris, you coming up here with a pair of scissors? Why do you come up here to cut? How you doing?

Pretty good. How y'all tonight?

Good, sir.

So I think there's some context to kind of open up with with this one. I'll try not to do too much of a history lesson, but I came to Fayetteville for good in November of 2019, and a couple months later, they shut everything down for COVID, and I became the acting director of economic community development. It was a weird time. I think all told, we spent almost $30 million of federal money through that time period while we were still running $3 to $4 million worth of annual programs that our office normally handles. So I say all that to say that I could not be prouder of my team. Some of the things I'm here to talk to you about tonight were activities that were in 2017, 2018, and 2019. I have the fortune, the absolute pleasure to have handpicked almost every single person on my entire department. I don't think that happens ever. And I could not be prouder of them, the training, dedication, professional development they have. So I say all that to context the rest of this presentation here. We've got some challenges that we need to figure out how to address as a community. And it don't sound as bad as I just made it, but that was the point. All right, so let's get into it. I'd rather set expectations real low and then go above them, right? So under our home investment partnership, that's funding we get anywhere from 800 to a million dollars annually to build new affordable housing. HUD has found two findings that require corrective financial action. Both of these findings date back from 2017 and 2019. I think the important thing to keep in mind, Council, is that we spent eligible money on eligible projects and helped low-income people get in stable housing. There's no doubt about that, nothing about the findings cause that into question. What HUD did find is that we did not use the appropriate HUD agreement tools in spending some money on a couple of transactions. So all told, we're talking about $321,000 and there's two options to address it. That is a voluntary reimbursement from future grant years or a direct repayment from the general fund. So after we talk through this tonight, I'll be looking to come back to council based on your direction to resolve this very longstanding issue that we finally got determination from HUD after everything that's happened at the federal government this past year. So let's talk a little bit about what home requires. Home requires a written agreement before funds are dispersed. Both of the funds relate to us not having those written agreements in place. Those written agreements say this money was home money. You've got obligations as the person who is receiving this money, whether you're building a house or whether you're moving into a house. You've got repayment affordability requirements. And then there's project specific things depending on how the city wants to frame out using that money. And all that needs to be clear for HUD when they review these agreements. So finding number one was our old homeowner rehab program that used to be funded with home. What occurred is that the city had traditionally secured those home funds with a deed of trust and a promissory note that told you if you didn't live here for X number of years, you'd have to pay us back. If you have to maintain low income residents in the household or you pay us back, all of those things were contained in the deed of trust. However, HUD said that wasn't good enough to meet the regulation. We had to have this specific written agreement as well. The next finding was on our community housing development organization activities. So when we work with folks like habitat or other nonprofits in the community to build single family houses, and this one was kind of, uh, interesting because basically what happened is we changed the framework after the agreement was in place. And then we started processing an amendment that amendment got signed and ratified, but some payments happened in between. And so the entire project, which is well over a million dollars, did not get called into a question. Just the invoices that took place before that amendment got put in place. So having said all that, that's what happened. This is what we've done. So we stopped doing rehab programs with home funds. It's complicated, it's burdensome, and when you spend a dollar on the house, you got to bring the whole house up to current day code. Now we use CDBG funds for that. Our community development block grant that lets us get in, fix a roof, fix a bathroom, fix a broken door and get out of that house compliance controls. We've, we've added a bunch of stuff. Um, so I brought in, uh, experts in CDBG home and some other programs and said, I need a policy manual and I know somebody who's got one. So go find me a policy manual and help me make it for Fayetteville. So now my team has a policy manual about that thick that has everything in it about how we treat certain dollars and how we invest in everything from down payment assistance clients to large scale apartment complexes where we're putting gap financing in place. We also have procedures in place and support from our legal department to draft the appropriate agreements that home requires, and we work with our finance team to make sure we don't draw down any money until those agreements are in place. So the source of these findings has been eliminated. That's not good enough, because policies aren't always as good as people who can follow them. Right. And so every year my team has to review those policies and acknowledge electronically that they have read them and can follow them. Every one of my team members has gone to HUD training for their respective areas of responsibility. So my housing program manager, my assistant director, my business manager and myself have all taken almost 40 hours of home HUD training. And then there's ongoing maintenance. Every year we sit down and we look at these policies. I'm sure you've all seen the Road to Housing Act and where that's at in D.C. right now. Well, if that goes through, home is going to change significantly. So we'll sit down and go through these policies and make sure that we update it accordingly. But I don't want you all to take my word for it. So I called HUD in Greensboro and asked them if they would come down here and visit us. and said, we've been putting all this stuff in place for all these years that y'all been holding onto these transactions and looking at them. Come look at what we're doing now and then send my council a letter. So in your agenda package, you've got a report from HUD that says that they reviewed our current home procedures, written agreements, processes, and they selected random project files. They found that we updated our home commitment policies. They noted that drawdown procedures, helping sure home funds are not drawn before a valid written agreement is in place. I also, brought in a paid private consultant. It's somebody that we've had a relationship with for several years that we call for technical assistance on how we structure different projects or how we comply with different grant things. They came in and did a review and they looked at our CDBG funded rehab program and then all the things related to these home findings, our single family housing and the rehab. They also gave a letter that's in your agenda packet that says everything that they reviewed is structured according to HUD requirements. So the bottom line is, last thing we gotta do is figure out this $321,000. So we got two options for it. Like I said, direct repayment, that's gonna hit the general fund, but it does keep us going with our home program as it currently is. Voluntary grant reduction does not impact our general fund. It reduces home entitlement, but it does it over multiple years, so it eases that shock. And this is city council asking HUD if we can do that process. So HUD still has to approve it. I was going to say, what did they say the repayment terms are? So this is us suggesting it to them. This is within the regulations that allow for it.

Okay.

Yeah.

We want to take the least impactful.

Absolutely. Yeah. And so that's what we've put here in our draft reduction schedule. So not this upcoming year, July one, but next year, FY 28, we would request that they reduce our grant by $121,000 and change. And then a hundred thousand dollars a year for the next two years. That makes up the three 21 in total without us paying it. Yes, sir. So we would just have reduced grant revenue. That does impact our programs. Because these programs fluctuate so much and we've got other funding sources, it's hard for me to draw you a one-to-one and say, because we won't have $100,000 in 2030, that means that this will happen. But some of the things to think about for that cost is we use that money for our lower income down payment assistance program. We can also use the housing bond for that program. We use it for single-family housing production. We can also use the housing bond for that as well. We work with non-profits on building single-family housing. This would give us a little bit less flexibility on doing large-scale projects with them. We'll still be able to fund doing two or three houses a year like we normally do. Yes, sir?

Let me ask you.

Yeah, we've got questions from Council Member Herron-Jones. Yeah, let me ask some questions right where you are. Yes, sir. This slide right here, this is just a suggestive proposal to HUD if they will go along with this.

This is a procedure that they have, but they reserve the right to approve us.

Okay.

Now, I don't know if I'm jumping way outside of the box on this next question, because when you first started saying some things, I just felt it in my gut. Please tell me that I'm thinking wrong and what I'm getting ready to ask. This has nothing at all to do with, and I'm going to say my, okay, with my Merkerson Choice Program and all the work we did in March in D.C. Please tell me I'm just thinking wrong, and this has nothing to do with that.

Absolutely not, no. This is an administrative finding. Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with Choice Neighborhoods. This is an administrative finding from... what, nine years ago, seven years ago, right, that HUD took a very long time to go through all the paperwork and make a decision. They just so happened to have made a decision after most of the folks in HUD's office retired and new folks came in. Right.

So we got these decisions just a few months ago. A little bit better. Yes, sir.

I don't have the slightest bit of concern. HUD has come down and looked at what we do. They're happy with what we do. We've had programs that my assistant director, Alex Baker created that were best practices that he presented at conferences.

Now, my other question, maybe my last, it may not be, um, this are our hood grants because we you're saying here this is a request within the limits that they allow us to do their proposal to for deductions if this is you know this is accepted but are we guaranteed uh what our hood what we're going to be receiving from our um you know, from our future home, are we guaranteed in order to even make this proposal within their limitations?

I think that's a good question. Cause you know, ain't nothing in life guaranteed. Right. Um, you know, depending on the administration, we occasionally get, you know, calls to, to remove these programs entirely and zero them out in the federal budget that has not happened. CDBG is 52 years old this year. Um, home has been around since 1997. Um, I, I don't necessarily, there's a lot of support from your, uh, local, uh, elected officials that, you know, the state Senate, um, the state representatives for the house and the Senate that, that know the impact these programs have on communities like ours. It has not ever been cut regardless of what the white house administration has done, uh, in several past administrations, not just the one today.

And, and, and I think this is going to be my last question again. So I want to so re-clarify, if you can, or reiterate, how did we miss this and this was seen and brought to our attention after we have been putting proposals and other things together over the years, then it was seen and caught in the middle of all of the additional work that we were already getting ready to do.

Yeah, so HUD usually is about three years that they look back at things, like things occurred, the grant year closed and settled, and then HUD comes in and pulls stuff, right? And so in this case, they pulled things in 2020, and they pulled things in 2022. And then they took years. To look at those things, we had a pretty good case for them to say, hey, you've done corrective actions to fix all of these things, and we're not going to require repayment. But unfortunately, by the time they got to their final decision at the end of last year and earlier this year, it was repayment is due. But we've been actively working back and forth with them on these items. And this has been, you know, job one for me since I came in the door along with the COVID and keeping the ship running, right, was how do we put these administrative procedures in place to make sure stuff like this doesn't occur?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think you've done a, you know, the department has done a good job over these last few years, but... This does hurt. Yeah, it hurts. Thank you, Mayor.

All right.

Councilman Jones. Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor. Very quickly, just to piggyback off that, just to be correct, you said this occurred between 2016, 2019 timeframe.

Yeah, I think both activities happened in 2017 and 2019.

All right. Now, what's the process? What departments all look at it? Legal, whoever? What does that look like? Can you spell it out just for those that are listening? Now, because I know you prefaced it really good as far as you and your staff. I have done. So thank you for that.

Sure. So there's two findings in this, right? So finding one is home funded rehab programs. We don't do those anymore. We do it with our community development block grant, which HUD came in, looked at that program. A private consultant came in with that program. Everybody's happy with it. The legal department helps us write those agreements every year. Um, and, uh, finance, uh, I actually have an email right now for a whole bunch of audit documents that they want to test it. They're right. Um, Finding number two is single-family housing development, particularly with a nonprofit community housing development organization. And this one's real easy. We cannot just agree to things. We have to put a written amendment in place, right? That is just the best practice. That's what we need to do. Finance understands that and is on board. My team understands that and is on board. This could not happen again.

Okay, yeah, that's where I was getting at, that review process, just to making sure that we are reviewing those things, because 321, that is huge right now. So I know you mentioned that right now we couldn't know the impact as far as that amount would have or our repayment processes would have on our eligible programs right now. We would not know that, number one. Is that what you said? it's tough to project it okay all right then number two uh hud does not have to uh agree to the uh multi-year plan that we laid out that's correct okay and if not then we would have to take that 321 that would have an immediate budget impact or yes sir of 321. okay all right just wanted to make sure but i thank you for you and your and your staff i know you all extremely uh competent it is unfortunate i just wanted the public to hear that you all have things in place you have safeguards that are now in place so that this wouldn't happen again i know you've transitioned with one of the grants but that's that's one thing that i wanted to make sure thank you mr mayor yes sir thank you mr mayor just one quick question uh let's call it uh maybe it's for the city manager does this affect our credit rating no no

No. And, um, Chris, I don't know if you, um, mentioned it as well. This was, um, about how the home we originally was used and if we were just repairing the bathroom and how, did you mention that?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Yeah. That's why we switched it from the home is a tough program to comply with. Um, when you hear people talk about building affordable housing with federal money and how tough it is, home's one of those things, right? CDBG is remarkably easy. And so that's why most people use CDBG for these homeowner repair programs.

I don't want anything to affect the prospect of the programs that you may have in the future because we need all the home owners that we can get. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Colley. As we redo this proposed budget, part of that was repairing homes, legacy homes. I can't remember the word today. I think it was mature. There you go. All right. All that. Vintage, whatever you want to say. But we want to make sure that we've got that worked out. And then we need to also point out that right now we've been just using the block grant money for that. Like you haven't been getting a lot of general fund dollars. So the question is on a housing bond that the public passed and we don't have program uses, if we want to, Because I mentioned this to some seniors and they were very excited, right? That you have a lot of seniors in this community that need to make home repairs. They go to our program through urban ministries, but it runs out of money. So you've got a longer list than you have people. Absolutely. Because we're trying to use money from this one source. So as council looks at that, is there a way to incentivize or expand that to where people in some of these legacy vintage homes have the ability to make some repairs and we add some money to that program. Is an allowable use the local dollars that we have in the home housing trust?

Yes, sir. So a few weeks ago in budget work session, I think you had to step out briefly for a call or something, but I talked about the housing bond framework and part of that was for homeowner rehab. Right. Councilmember Jones also suggested that we maybe reach out to the Cumberland County Council on older adults. Set and talk with them about their homeowner program. They've got a wait list as well. I think that there's a good opportunity for housing bond money to catch their wait list up and get them back on track. They have annual money every year. They just had more people sign up than they had annual money for. So we can get them back on track and then they can move forward.

You know, if you'd have been here just 30 minutes ago, you probably could have took some blood pressures down a little bit. Right.

Because everybody got all hyped up. All right.

And but we need to know and see that because. You know, Council Member Herrera, now them seniors are rough when you tell them you're going to do something. And they vote. Yeah, but we appreciate it. I don't want to prolong it. We've got about 32 minutes before, or 20, 20, 35 minutes before the next, before we have our public forum, public hearings and announcements, so.

So just checking for consensus, we would bring that back to the council.

Proposing with the most flexible plans that HUD has. Absolutely. Okay. All right. So council will look to you for a consensus, Mr. Collier.

Are we going to have discussion on the motion?

We need a motion first.

Okay.

Right on.

So what's the motion? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We recommend voluntary grant reduction for the HUD programs.

motion about a second about hair all right discussion yeah for me yeah um i thought about this reading this i just thought about all our other priorities and even the discussions we've had today uh to me the future is now in terms of this crisis uh that we're on and I am in favor of paying the money now and not reducing any of these programs for the next year. That's where I am. I will vote against a motion that attrits our ability to stay on pace in terms of addressing this housing crisis.

Okay, right. So run your calculations for us if you can, so I can follow you just to make sure I'm understanding. So you're going to take money out of the kitty on a budget that we're short of that we're trying not to add taxes to. So run the math for me on that.

Thank you. Uh, yeah, the math for me, if anybody's been in this room, we'll ask two hours. Uh, we just proposed $800,000 for police surveillance. Oh, Last meeting, I sat in here and nobody blinked when we talked about $6 million over the course of two years for Skyview. My priorities are people first. We have a housing crisis that we should be pouring into wholeheartedly to adjust that. And in terms of the scope of all of our priorities, putting people first is often, too often last. In my vote and in what I'm proposing, I would say we need to continue putting everything we can into our housing program. And if that means paying this money up front, then that's what I think we should do.

So how do you take out if you're putting in? I'm confused on that. But I got you. All right. All right.

So council, let's vote. You'll stay confused.

All right. All right, Mr. Colley, we'll take that $300,000 if they give you a payment plan, and let's help some of these folks in the community get some housing this year. Thanks, sir. All right. Council, the next item is Opportunity Zone 6.06. Robo. I'm not going nowhere, but Robert's here to help me out. Yeah. And so, Chris, before you get started on this, it's good to hear where you are, because I did have a meeting in D.C. about this, and the governor gets to pick this solely, which is a little different. I think they had some participation last time, but there's a lot of rural or out of the incorporated area concentration, so I'm hoping y'all got the latest on all of that.

Yes sir, so I think you're pretty spot on. To catch some other folks up who might not be following this as closely. So the process that has been put in place is that the federal government has identified eligible tracks for opportunity zones. They are looking, the state is asking for local input from the community, from the public at large, from cities, counties, economic development organizations, whomever. And then there's a form to fill out to nominate a certain number of those eligible areas for Opportunity Zones. That will then go to the governor's office. They'll make a determination on what to submit to the federal government. So for those of you who aren't real estate developers, let's talk about what Opportunity Zones are. So this is not... federal pennies from heaven. This is not a federal grant program like the monies that my team gets. This is a tax credit for private investment. The Opportunity Zone portion of it is using that tax credit designation to direct that investment in areas of our community where we see the most potential aligned with the most need. So you have an eligible tract, you get a private investment opportunity to build a hotel, to build an apartment, to build a new facility that's bringing jobs and tax base. And this is a potential tax incentive that when they go to put their capital stack together to fund that project can be used for that. This is time sensitive. The announcement came out right at the end of April. that there was a process in place that was too late for the May work session. So Robert and ACM Phelps and I met and we talked this through and put it on the June council work session. There's a submission deadline for nominations of June 7th. So to the mayor's point there, we do got a little bit of a numbers problem to figure out here. There's 31 eligible tracks in Cumberland County. 25 of them are wholly or partially in Fayetteville. Some of them, it's just a little sliver of the city that's in the larger tract, and the rest of it is in the unincorporated area. And then based on the methodology that the state put in place, we're able to nominate four of those tracts.

Chris, maybe you could just mention that this is substantially less than we currently have.

Absolutely. Do you recall how many we have?

I want to say it's about eight or nine.

Nine, yeah, I think so. Yeah, so right now there's nine. Let's see if Robert bounces out of the seat here in a second. But yeah, so there's nine now. I think that's a good point to keep in mind. So this is a concentration of those qualified census tracts.

So thank you. Robert, before I go to Council Member Green, some of the things that we are hopefully planning on in in in in this county is the reason why we one of the reasons why we're still in tier one for population is the infrastructure so as pwc and the county work through expanding infrastructure in some of those areas that don't have it like everything east of 95 i think doesn't have work don't have sewer so that you're going to be limited on construction the areas like you said because we're more urban and they've got more of a rule concentration. Areas around the airport we're trying to activate, you know, if there's cargo, if there's something to incentivize business investment. We want to kind of hear from you because we need to pick this out in a different way. Last time the rules kind of changed and we had to throw a few names up and we didn't really get the kick that a lot of communities have, but we want to try to be strategic just to go around. Can you talk to that a little bit?

I was going to say, in this case, with them, this is not just us. I mean, the state has actually cut out some counties, won't even have any opportunity zones. The eligibility has changed. So this contraction means you have to be incredibly strategic. I mean, we'd like to have every area that qualifies in. We will not get that many districts. So I think you have to look at where do you have... the raw physical capacity to see new investment, where do you have the infrastructure to do that, and where are there areas that it's likely to occur. And this can overlay and should overlay When you mentioned your plan and your neighborhood, Markison Road, there's an area that you have a plan and intentional investments. We've talked about Bragg Boulevard. We've talked about things going up 95. But you only have a handful of them. And so we just won't be able to cover every district and every place. And I think we really want to say, where do we have the actual land and the utilities available for development or things that can be redeveloped? But it's four.

Yeah. All right. Council Member Green.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Who has a seat at this table? Who comprises the group that's looking into this and figuring out? where these tracks may end up and where these parcels, who's identifying those?

So that's the purpose of tonight's presentation. I'm asking you all to kind of give us direction on what's important so that myself, Robert, the city manager's office can go back and filter that through what's important to come up with those four.

And I think maybe just to take that a little further, making sure we got the question correct. So what you see here is everything that is eligible by raw population and demographic. We make a recommendation to the governor's office of state, and they ultimately make the recommendations of what you get. There is a public. You want to talk about the public input process? You're going to talk about that.

Yes, so as I mentioned while we want to come up with a recommendation from the city because we think that will be received strongly and favorably Any member of the public can submit a nomination form from the Department of Commerce's website Okay, I really just wanted to kind of understand

who is involved within the city within economic development that to me the true professionals that do this every day day in and day out i mean i can go through the community and identify parcels that i think fit this but i want to know that we have the best folks that know the answers to these questions that are that have a seat at the table there are many people in this community that are very knowledgeable in this arena, so I just wanna make sure that we are making some effort to capture their thoughts as well.

Thank you, Councilwoman. Before I go to Mayor Pro Tem, to your point, Councilmember Green, I think there's two things. There's one, the folks that do development and do that kind of work know what they have and where they plan. If they don't understand the rules, which I think is a big piece to this, then we do need to hear from them about their portion of it. But the rules are what makes the difference. Like the last time we picked areas that

In their mind, we should have been right for development, but we didn't really hit it.

Robo, speak to some of the areas we got the last time. We had downtown. We got over by Haymont. They were not really distressed census tracts. They didn't really see a lot of investment like some of these other cities and mayors I talked to. It took off for them, so it really can't be directed by... You know, we're developing things he wants to push. We got to make sure that these IRS rules is treasure rules are understood.

Yeah. And that is where you saw the largest investments in our county. I was like, last time there wasn't as nearly a clear cut. Process it was at every community, every county was going to get at least if they were eligible for any, they'd get 1 and then it was, I don't know what the magic formula was. So we requested. more than we got, but we did get down Bragg Boulevard, down Murchison, down towards 301 South Corridor in general, parts of Rayford Road, and you can see, and we've also had a big shift, and Chris has talked about this before, that what is eligible today is not the same as what was even eligible last time. So there are some new things now out towards 295. And so this is where what transacted mostly, my understanding was, some of them were new developments in retail and massive either apartment or mobile home developments changed hands. That was actually not just here. But in many, many communities, the reselling, the redevelopment, or the development of multifamily residential and or even existing mobile home parks were some of the biggest investments. Because under that program, it was people who had a massive capital gains liability taking those funds and investing them to delay it i know uh delay the onset of that and also to reduce their overall liability on it so these are people that are looking for largely a sheltered investment or some sort of long-term return all right uh mayor protein thank you mr mayor uh chris are you the robo

Over the past week, I had to travel to Texas right outside of Fort Hood. And what I've seen shocked me. So I called the mayor and told him about what I had seen. And what I had seen is major development all along the interstate that connects to the military. Now, you just got finished mentioning 295. Is that going to be a contributing factor on what they decide and where they decide?

If you want to talk about future growth, there's a tract in the city along 295 that I would, as your straight-up economic developer, I remember you paying me to be biased, that I'd aggressively recommend be one of the ones you put forward. It has the potential, it's got new road frontage, and it's kind of like new oceanfront property. It doesn't come along very often. The other sides of that are some of the areas we run have... water and sewer available to them. Some can get it there and some are a bit of a challenge. I'd love to think that we have more of that, but you see what's happening right now and I know it didn't happen as fast as people want, but between All-American and Bragg Boulevard and Skyville coming through their now 401 business, You're seeing all that area, seeing a massive amount of development now that it's gotten its momentum, and that is on the doorstep of Fort Bragg. We don't quite have as much undeveloped opportunity between us and the installation as some other places do, like Fort Hood. But it definitely will be a driver, a big driver. And we have a ribbon coming up soon on a new development in the military business park of a defense-focused speculative building set up. Thank you. And you can make it a new front entrance.

So, Chris, what's your deadline that you need input back?

We're about three slides in. I think I got seven or eight total that kind of get us through the process that we've been working on. Back on you, sir. This is a compressed timeline. So the state put out guidelines for nominations. These are the things that they want us to fill out. And what is our view of how these different areas that we showed on the map would impact business development and job creation? How do they fit into strategic local revitalization plans? And how do they have pathways to increase housing supply in high need areas? So what we've thought about and to kind of build upon that is can the track support private business investment, employment growth, commercial activity, and industrial development? And on strategic revitalization, does it align with redevelopment corridors, Merchant & Choice, downtown, neighborhood revitalization, infrastructure, and other city priorities? That's a long sentence for a reason. There's a lot of different priorities out there that we got to filter through. Housing supply, can it support affordable workforce, mixed income, and other housing production in an area where there's a market for housing? And then we added this fourth component to it, which is project and site readiness. So Robert touched on that a little bit. It does no good for us to put this in an area that's already been built up and there's no available sites for redevelopment or development. That makes it a challenge. Those are not ready sites to be developed to take advantage of these tax credit programs. And so what we are looking at is that we would filter areas through these four to... to then inform the state process on these three priorities. So the approach that we're looking at is to take the 25 eligible tracts, put them through the state guidelines and a local priority and readiness analysis that's done by the city and FCDC. We have a ranked city recommendation, and then we submit those top four to North Carolina Commerce. So the first thing we're looking for tonight is council direction, policy direction on the priorities that should guide the recommendation, economic development, housing, revitalization, private investment. Staff applies those guidelines to the eligible tracks in Fayetteville. There's literally a spreadsheet that asks a bunch of different questions, and we have to go fill that thing out with what's important to you all. And then that gets sent to the state. So once Robert and I have filled that out and the manager's office has reviewed it, then we would have those four census tracts that met the most of those criteria and aligned with council's priorities. And that would be the four that we would nominate to the state. So the timeline is pretty non-existent. This is my week after I talked to y'all about it today, is putting all 25 tracks into a spreadsheet, filtering all this information that we can, getting as much as we know about development that is proposed or occurring, getting Robert to look at everything he knows about project pipelines that are in place, and filtering that through so that we make sure we have the most impactful stuff. But what it really comes down to is, council, if there are areas that we got to include, Help us not let you down.

All right. Mr. Hewitt, you had something.

Yes, sir. As Council deliberates how to provide direction to staff, as he shows on the screen, we're looking at a June 7th deadline. Did want to capture if there is someone, as Councilman O'Green mentioned, that you want us to talk to or EDC to talk to, that also would be very helpful. This is... It's kind of a good problem to have that the opportunity zones are being renewed or continued, slightly tougher in that we still were not given an abundance of time to be very thoughtful and deliberate here, but if you do have not only direction that you'd like to give staff, or if you'd want a recommendation that we send out in some form or fashion, or if you have someone you'd like for us to talk to, we can do that and report back, if we can add it even on Thursday's agenda, just for you to give a thumbs up or down if we have the names.

Is that doable, Chris and Robert, for us to come up with a recommendation we think?

It'll have to be.

So, thank you, Mr. Hewitt. Robo, I guess you touched this on the EDC side because I don't know that any of those folks have talked to the people that are drafting the rules about this stuff. The USDA, Neil, that came down and talked to you was real familiar with how they combine their programs with it. Particularly for housing. So you've got some areas and what was implied was the areas that are just outside of the city limit. Um, you know, that are high growth target areas, you know, and somewhere in between us, maybe our and us and Jack bread us and grace creek, or, you know, something is close, you know, and I told him we had donut holes. So, you know, the show heights piece is near 295. so. make sure that we're calculating in future growth, infrastructure, and that it needs to align with, that we know the rules. So I mean, how much have you all looked into the rules that Treasury has on this?

A fair amount. I think what we can do is, because there's such weight on it, we can give you a few, a very short list of options, some that lean more residential development, some that lead more tax-based growth, some that lead more growth of the city and extend, and those that are in the core. I think we can kind of maybe rank them there with a couple of options. And we can also, this is please, anybody who's... Track does not end in there for anybody watching at home. This is not a slight against them. We just have to maximize this very limited opportunity. Offline, I'll be happy to share my opinions about why Fayetteville community that deserves more of this opportunity than others doesn't have more. But that's not for us to decide. And that decision has already been made. So we have to work with the few that we've got and we'll just have to do the best we can.

All right. Thank you. All right. So, um, Ms. Carla, I guess you, you'll get back with us and.

Yeah, I guess I got my Friday back cause I'll bring this to y'all on Thursday.

So, okay.

All right.

Thank you. Yes, Mr. May.

Can we, uh, direct staff to submit the city's, uh, opportunities on nominations by the 7th of June deadline?

Before, because he'll need to get through. So he just said he's going to have this done Thursday, right?

Yeah, I think what the manager has offered is for us to bring that back to you on Thursday.

And you've got these growth strategies in there with Tim and Robert's office? Yep. Okay, all right.

All right. All right, we'll get to work. Thank you.

All right. So council, we've got about 16 minutes, but we do have, uh, huh? Yeah. But I don't know that we can, that was my point. Can we get into 6 0 6 a Madam attorney? Um, no, that's wishful thinking and think that that can be good. That's about like the budget, you know, and one of them things you crack open, it's yeah.

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion if I'm here. All right. Samir, sir. I'd like to make a motion if I'm here.

Oh, hold on.

I'll come back to you.

You tell me your council member requests. To another work session, you mean? Okay. All right. All right. Before we do that, that helps us clean up on the back end. Yes, sir. Councilman McMillan.

Yes, I'd like to make a motion. I'm making this now before we adjourn this meeting because it's pertinent to our schedule moving in all the way through August. I move that the City Council direct the City Clerk to schedule a special meeting no later than June 25, 2026 to consider the data center moratorium agenda item from today's agenda, June 1st.

Well, we haven't got to that item. So you got a specific item on here? I'm putting that on the floor now. Right. But we're trying to get the order of where we're going now because we're at 606A. So hold on to that. We'll come back to that because you've got 6.07 for that.

Ask that that be recognized prior to adjournment of this meeting. Right.

Well, we're not going to adjourn it. What the plan is is that we will recess it. We'll have our... Obligations on announcements, we've got folks here that have their families here for recognition purposes and our public form and then we'll pick back up the recess. So the question was. An item as heavy as 6. Oh, 3 that has been moved to 606 a. Can't be done in in 16 minutes. So what we'll do, we'll call for a recess. And then, so, and then we'll come back. So now, because procedurally, because we've got to get to your two council member requests, you would rather withdraw those?

I will withdraw those if we have a commitment from the board. No, no.

Do you make an emotion or are you going to hear them? So either we're going to hear them now or we're going to hear them later.

Let me say, if there's consensus from the board to get through all of our agenda items before this night is over. then I will withdraw the motion that's on the floor.

Well, so are you making a motion or not? You can't get a consensus without a motion of some type. Okay.

Let's have discussion then, if we could.

All right, so we're out of the process here. So what we'll do, we'll call for a recess, we'll pick this up, we're gonna have our public forum, we'll have our announcements and recognitions, we'll take a few minutes break and then we will continue our meeting at the conclusion of that. If we can have your attention. At this time, as we prepare now to move into our announcements, our recognitions and public forums, we have several recognitions tonight. We have members of the community that we would like to highlight. We have special members of staff that are that are moving on to bigger and better things. And so we want to make sure that we pay homage to those who do that. So at this time, we will ask Ms. Kaylin Suarez from the Fayetteville Dogwood Festival Director to please come to the podium. And she's not here? Okay.

All right.

All right. Do we have members for the scouting troop?

82.

And we just realized that they've got an odd start time on here, 6.15. So it might be about six, eight minutes early. So if any of these folks are not here yet, we'll certainly circle back to them at 6.15. I did see Dr. Waddell here, FSU. If she could meet us at the podium at this time. Dr. Waddell, if you could meet the council member here. And good evening, Miss FSU alumnae.

Okay, all right.

before I let this beautiful young lady begin that I grew up with, that I went to church with. She, I am happy to recognize her this evening. She is Fayetteville State University's Miss Alumni 25. 26 and she wants to say a word or two but I'm going to also give her a little something that she probably wasn't expecting and on behalf of the city of Fayetteville and Our mayor and my fellow colleagues, I just wanted to give you a token of our appreciation. It's one of our city coins. Girl, that coin is worth so much you can go anywhere on that coin. Okay. Thank you.

I'm sorry, it's worth a lot. Work it, baby, work it.

Doesn't she look beautiful? Yes, she does. So, ladies and gentlemen, in the audience, those that are listening on the television, let me introduce to you again Dr. Kathy B. Waddell. She is Miss Feather State alumni for all the Broncos that are in the house. Yes. FSU 25-26. All right.

Hard worker for Feather State. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Waddell.

Good evening, Mayor Mitch Colvin, my district council member, District 4, DJ Hare, city council members, distinguished guests, and fellow community members. My name is Dr. Kathy Waddell, and I'm a proud alumni of Fayetteville State University. It is an honor to be here this evening. I am Miss FSU 2025-2026 alumni. I raised the most money for the National Alumni Association for the student's endowment and won the title. As a Fayetteville State alumni, I have learned the importance of leadership and civic engagement. Several years ago, I had the pleasure of being the chair of the Fayetteville Cumberland Human Relations Commission. I honor Ron McElrath for his experiences and knowledge that he taught me so much and so well. I am the present ambassador seeking any financial amount for the students of Fayetteville State University to fulfill their financial obligations. The students just do not have the money. If you would love to scan the information, to give back to the students at Fayetteville State, we would gladly appreciate it. We need your financial help. So thank you, Mayor Coven, 4th District, DJ Hare, and council members for your dedication and for allowing me to present tonight. Tonight I have a sorority sister, if you'll stand up. And I have my husband, Neil Waddell. I'm sorry, Sandra Braxton. We thank you for this opportunity, and God bless. Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Waddell. Thank you. Good to see you, Ms. Braxton. Thank you, Mr. Waddell. You know, the real muscle behind the scenes for the queen. So we thank you for the work you're doing for federal state, our hometown and my alma mater. But council with that, as I stated, we're still probably four minutes ahead. We want to see if Ms. Pearly Mack Lynch was here. Okay. Okay. All right. And, um, council member Ferguson, you were going to do the recognition for the scouting troop, uh, 82.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, these young men could not be here tonight. They are three seniors and, uh, they are receiving a certificate of excellence. Um, this is from the troop 82, the Okaneechee council, Sandhills district, which is, which is in, uh, district one. They are, uh, Samuel Drake, Drake, Washington, uh, Jackston Couch and Jay Whitman. That's Samuel Drake, Washington, Jackston Couch, and Jay Whitman. And it reads, congratulations on earning the rank of Eagle Scout, the highest honor in scouting America. Your dedication, leadership, and service reflect the very best of our community, wishing you continued success in all your future adventures and endeavors. And they will be presented to them at a future meeting, troop meeting. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Yes, sir. Thank you, and congratulations to those. Those new Eagle Scouts, that is awesome, fantastic. All right, and Council, do see a special young lady that kinda broke all of us down, but I'll ask Ms. Michelle Smith-Rod, and if she could meet me at the podium, please.

I never did get your name right, Michelle.

Which side do you want me on?

Which side?

It's Reardon.

I messed it up too. It's okay. So, but you know, the one thing that we will say, um, whenever the general public sends us something says that, you know, I've got this problem in my community, this problem in my district, um, the city council, the wind beneath our wings and the person who catches our back has been, Miss Michelle and uh, she is on it. She communicates with our citizens and she, she takes her job very seriously. So we are all very saddened to see her go. We've been working hard to try to convince her to stay, but it looks like we're losing that. So she brought mom and her husband tonight and her cousin. So can her family please stand up?

That means she really, really gone. She rang a mom.

Well, well it is certain. She has given service to the city of Fayetteville from September 25th of 2000 to July 1st of 2026. And so on behalf of myself and the city council, we would like to present you the highest honor that we can give, which is the key to the city, and it reads as follows. On behalf of the City of Fayetteville Mayor and City Council, our key to the city is proudly presented to Ms. Michelle Smith-Rarden in grateful recognition of her devoted interest and untiring commitment to the residents of the City of Fayetteville with service from September 25th of 2000 to July 1st of 2026. 26 years of service to this community. So let's give her a round of applause.

Thank you, Mayor Colvin, Mayor Pro Tem, and all of council. More than a quarter of a century I have spent my life here in the city of Fayetteville in service to the citizens. And I stand on the shoulders of my father, my grandparents, and all of my ancestors. And I accept this humbly, this monumentous award.

I'm still proud.

Not even believing, I'm in disbelief that you guys would think this much of me. I told my husband I'm not going to cry because I've cried all weekend. But I just want to say thank you, and I'm grateful to God to be able to receive this and to be able to execute everything that he's given me to do. Thank you so much.

And Councilman Hare, we would be remiss if we didn't get the FSU alumni. She did not get her picture. And so all the hard work she does for this university, so we want to make sure that we acknowledge that. So if y'all could indulge us for just a minute for that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh yeah, why do you think he's so engaged?

Oh yeah, congratulations.

He's excited about it.

Council.

Council, thank you again to Ms. Michelle for a quarter century of hard work to the city in the various capacities. Thank you to Dr. Waddell again. At this time, did Ms. Kayla Suarez, did she arrive?

Okay.

All right. And now we'll move to Ms. Pearlie Mack Lynch. Is she here?

All right.

Well, what we'll do, Ms. Lynch celebrates the young age of 100, and so we have prepared a proclamation for her. And I was hoping that she would come and receive this tonight, because this is such an honor for a century of life. What a blessing that is. We've prepared a proclamation that raises as follows. Ms. Pearly Mack Lynch was born April 21st, 1926 in Red Springs, North Carolina, and later made her home in Fayetteville, where she remained a pillar of strength and love within the community. Ms. Lynch is 11th of 13 children and has dedicated her life to family, raising nine children of her own and lovingly nurturing her grandchildren as if they were her own, embodying the true meaning of selflessness and devotion. Whereas her home has long been a place of warmth, comfort, and nourishment, where the doors always open and a good meal was ready, and all who enter were welcomed with kindness and care. And whereas known by her family as funny, honest, and giving, Ms. Lynch's spirit and character have positively influenced and inspired five generations, leaving a lasting legacy rooted in love, generosity, and resilience. Whereas over the course of a remarkable century of life, She has found joy in life, simple pleasures, including her love of chocolate cake. That's what I'm talking about. Beautiful roses and spending time at the casino, reflecting on life. Reflected on a life well lived and richly enjoyed. And whereas reaching the extraordinary milestone of 100 years is truly a testament to life filled with faith, perseverance, and unwavering commitment to family and to the community. Now, therefore, I, Mitch Colvin, Mayor of the City of Fayetteville, North Carolina, on behalf of the Fayetteville City Council, more than 210,000 citizens we represent. We do hereby honorably proclaim Ms. Pearlie Mack Lynch Day and recognize that her life serves as an enduring example of love, strength, and generosity, and may her story continue to inspire generations to come. So let's give Ms. Lynch a round of applause. So that was amazing. And Councilman Harris, she's grown enough to go to the casino if she wants to. All right. All right. All right. Well, and finally, I think we have accomplished and made sure we recognized all.

I think I did have an additional announcement from, was it Councilmember Hondros?

I have two, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. I'd be remiss if I didn't wish my son his happy birthday, 15th, today. Oh, man. Unable to be there with him. They sometimes throw on the council meetings on the TV. I'm sure they're not watching today, but he'll catch it on the replay. And I'd also be remiss if I didn't wish my wife, Liza Marie, congratulations on her studio. She just opened her photography studio. She's been working hard. I've watched her build that business for the last two years, and she's finally about to cut the ribbon.

Well, congratulations. Let's give her a round of applause for that. And not only would you not be remiss, your key wouldn't work when you got it.

So, smart man. All right, Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just real quick, I want everybody to know that the day starts hurricane season. 150 days of hurricane season, I believe it ends on the 20th of October. Prepare now so we will not run into something that is... Unfortunate and we're not prepared for so please do what you can to make sure you're prepared. They're not anticipating many, but even if we have 1.

That's more than enough, so be prepared.

Thank you. Mr. Mayor.

All right. Thank you. All right, Council, so with that, we will move into our public hearing, our public forum per City Council Policy 120.9. This is a time that residents may have an input and a voice in what goes on in their city. The public forum will last no longer than one hour, each speaker is limited to three minutes each to address the City Council on issues related to the City of Fayetteville. No time will be yielded to any speaker or any other speaker by another speaker. Any remaining speakers on the public forum list that did not have an opportunity to address the council will have the option to have their name placed at the beginning of the next scheduled list, public forum list of speakers. All non-residents are placed at the end of the list of speakers. Individuals unable to attend in person may mail written comments or email to publiccomments at fevonc.gov. Written comments will be summarized by the city clerk during the meeting. With that, we will open up the public forum, Madam Clerk.

Mayor, we have 38 speakers tonight. Our first speaker is Valerie Bemis.

Good evening, Ms. Bemis.

Three minutes, huh? Are you doing the time for me or am I touching something?

Oh, the clerks do it.

All righty. Okay. So I live in Fayetteville. I live in a condo. It has an HOA and a management company, right? I had a leak. Well, let's go back, okay. So when you live there, I have my own home insurance, homeowner's insurance that covers the inside where I live. The HOA has insurance that we pay through our dues that covers from the walls out. I had a leak, it was in the walls. the management company are the owners of that policy that we pay through our HOA dues and it took them about a year to approve the repairs on my condo after I had done remediation. There are no laws to force these people to act like good actors and use the insurance that my dues pay for. I called the insurance company, and I'm like, my dues pay for them. I want you to approve the repairs. And they're like, nope, the management company has to do it. I filed a better business complaint. I contacted the governor, and now I am here. So this should never happen. I have insurance my dues pay for it And who are they to say that you can't that they're not going to open this up also You can't get rid of these management companies once you have them because it takes an 80% vote so in my condo Community there's 120 owners like who are they where do they live? I don't know it would be like astronomical to find out and you need 80% of them to vote yes, we want to get rid of this management company. So that would be 96 people that I would need a yes vote for. So I want to address this because there needs to be laws. These people need to be good actors out there, especially when they're using my money to do it.

Thank you. So if I don't respond, it's not a big room. Okay. It's our policy. We typically only will provide you information or, or connect you a great point. You still have a minute to go. Um, but what we'll do is, um, I'm not sure, but we'll have the legal look and see if there are any ordinances that we have to govern it. um but any laws i think would have to be a statutory uh driven initiative i did see one of our state senators here senator applewhite i saw her somewhere she's gone um but it may start there but i'm i'm not responding to you but doesn't mean we're not listening so well i contacted the governor and they're like nope sorry um we don't cover condos so okay so i don't know where to go with this uh i would also try to consumer protection part of the attorney general's office And try that. Jeff Jackson's office is a consumer protection specifically for consumer-related questions.

Well, in the end, I had to call a lawyer to get them to move and approve the insurance company to conduct the repairs on my unit. Thank you. But, okay, I think I've tried them all. All right. But thanks for the suggestions.

Thank you. All right. Thank you, ma'am.

Okay, have a good day. You too. Thank you.

All right.

Um, madam clerk, mayor, our next speaker is Melissa Williams.

And uh, we do have seats up front. So if any of you all are standing there about six to eight seats, All right, Ms. Williams.

Good evening, everyone, front and the back. So my name is Melissa Williams, and I am a Fayetteville resident in District 2. In council, I did send an email more in-depth on this, but I did want to come and speak to the public as well. So over the last several weeks, I did sit down and I reviewed the recommended budget for fiscal year 2027. I also took the time, I just kind of went down the rabbit hole with prior budgets pretty much throughout your terms. I have three observations that I want to share here. First, the city's revenue structure creates powerful incentives for growth through property valuation. So according to the proposed budget, approximately half of the general fund revenues come from the ad valorem property taxes, which I think that just changed. So the growth is important, but long-term sustainability depends on more than growing the tax base. It also depends on growing the earning capacity of the people who make up that tax base. Secondly, I believe the city needs to place greater emphasis on evaluation and measurable outcomes. Throughout the budget and supporting materials that I looked through, I saw many examples of activity, programs, initiatives, partnerships, events, staffing requests, capital projects. What I did not see clearly or as clearly were outcomes, measures. How are we defining process? How are we defining success? How are we measuring it? What results have been achieved? And how are those results being communicated back to the residents? This question applies to economic development projects, public safety initiatives, and the proposed expansion of the Office of Community Safety. Before we continue expanding programs and personnel, I believe residents deserve a clearer understanding of what previous investments have produced. Third, I would encourage council to consider a stronger emphasis on human capital development as economic development. I'm asking you to reimagine. what economic development means here in the city of Fayetteville. And I would encourage the city to consider a grow your own approach, which is just an initiative I've been just kicking around with for fun, because that kind of stuff is fun to me. But it's like a workforce strategy where you would develop local talent through partnerships in this community. rather than focusing on attracting talent from outside of here. Fayetteville should make a deliberate effort to cultivate the planners, the engineers, the analysts, the law enforcement personnel, the healthcare professionals here in our community. That's all I have.

Thank you, Ms. Williams. Madam Clerk.

Our next speaker is Paulette Weaver.

Hey, Ms. Weaver, how you doing?

Well, hey, how are you?

Good, how are you?

Okay, can I show you?

If you can give it to the clerk right there.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. My name is Paulette Weaver. I AM A TRAFFIC CONTROL OFFICER. I PROTECT YOUR KIDS. I PROTECT MY KIDS. SO THIS IS WHY I AM HERE TODAY. ON RAYFORD ROAD 71ST HIGH SCHOOL, THERE IS A LINE ACROSS and the kids are walking across that, we've had two children to get hit. Two is too many. We're asking that a fence be put up so that they cannot cross that to come at the crosswalks where your TCOs are. And if we could get that, that would certainly save some lives. Now, what is that, on 71st School Road? That's on Rayford Road, right in front of 71st School, high school. And you have a picture of it, and there are pictures of children crossing the road, ducking and dodging traffic. We gotta stop that. We are here to protect our children. Now, there is one other place. It's called Max Abbott Middle School. Max Abbott enters and exit out of the same way. There's a four traffic circle. It's not a circle, but it's traffic. Well, yeah, yeah, no, and there you go, but it's not a four-way stop. It's a three-way stop. Our traffic control officer is standing in the middle of the street, but there is one direction that has no stop sign. We're only asking for a stop sign so that when he turns, they stop. That's all we're asking for. Our job is to protect your children, to protect my children.

Thank you.

Oh, and council, I think our birthday guest is here. So 100. When I get out of here, I'll get the mic.

Thank you. Thank you.

Well, good afternoon, Lynch family. So we had an opportunity to read this very special accomplishment of Ms. Purley, 100 years. And so we read that. And just if the listening audience could indulge me, she has made her way down here with us. So we would like to read what's been prepared by the mayor's office and the council for you, Ms. Mack Lynch. So it says, whereas Ms. Pearlie Mack Lynch was born April 21st, 1926 in Red Springs and later made her home in Fayetteville, North Carolina, where she remained a pillar of strength and love within our community. Whereas Ms. Lynch is the 11th of 13 children and has dedicated her life to family, raising nine children of her own and a loving nurturing her grandchildren as if they were her own, embodying the true meaning of selflessness and devotion. And whereas known by her family as a funny, honest, and giving, Ms. Lynch's spirit and character have positively influenced and inspired five generations, leaving a lasting legacy rooted in love, generosity, and resilience. Whereas reaching this wonderful milestone of 100 years is a testament to a life filled with faith, perseverance, and unwavering commitment to family and to community. It's our pleasure. Now, therefore, I, Mitch Colvin, Mayor of the City of Fayetteville, along with our City Council, Councilman and Mayor Pro Tem Derek Thompson, as well as Councilmember Jones and all the members of Council, do hereby proclaim the day, the fourth day of May 2026, as Ms. Pearlie Mack Lynch Day, celebration of 100 years. We thank you, and it's such an honor. Thank you.

LET THIS WIFE HERE FOR ME.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU. Three, two, one.

This way here, please. This way, please. Three, two, one.

Thank you. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

All right. Thank you. Thank you all for your patience on that. And thank you to Lynch family again. Congratulations. All right. Madam clerk, we'll pick it up with Ms Sloan.

Yes, sir. Geisha Sloan is our next speaker.

Hello. How are you?

Hi, my name is Geisha Sloan.

I live in Fayetteville. I am district two. Hello, Mr. Davis. How are you? I am also a TCO. AT LONG HILL ELEMENTARY. WE HAVE A FEW PROBLEMS. BUT I'M SOLUTION ORIENTED. SO I'M ASKING THAT WE PUT IN SPEED TRAFFIC CAMERAS DURING THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. I MEAN DURING THE SCHOOL HOURS. We have the last day of school. We were out there. There were no lights. There were no blinking lights to tell traffic to slow down. Traffic goes from 50 miles per hour to 35 if they stop. We don't have pedestrians, so we don't have children because of where it is. There's actually no crosswalk if children decided to go and walk. if their parents' cars broke down. Any of those things happen, we have to try to figure out where we're going to cross the children. They're not slowing down. Each day that I come to work, there's at least three to five cars that blow my stop sign. I give them a wide berth. That means that once I see them pass the blinking light, that's when I stick the sign out. I not only have on the jacket, I have on the vest at the same time. So it's impossible for me to not be seen. I'm tall and I'm not thin. I can see the other ladies down the street. I can also hear them and I know that they can hear me because I asked them. We have flashing signs. There is a, uh, Senate bill three nine one that authorized the city of Fayetteville and every other city in North Carolina to use the signal traffic signs. Um, the traffic violations. Uh, board to put it up. I know you had it in 2022. But I'm not sure if it was on Ramsey street at all. Um. I do know that there are 2 vendors, red speed and even elevate. I think that's name of it. That will let you put it in for free. And you can recover the cost on the back of the $250 violation for speeders during those speed hours. We're not asking for much. We're asking for help. I'm also asking that whomever is controlling those lights handed over to the police department. Because when I call and I make a complaint saying that the light isn't working, my supervisor has to get in line and wait for someone to show up and it could be days. Give us some help. That is all.

Thank you. Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is William Lee.

Hey, Mr. Lee. How are you? William Lee here, TCO at Westover. We have a big problem over there with speeders. We have traffic, the flashing light, work sometime. I've been out there nine years, past two years. They have this one light, it may work about 30 minutes. I come through there on the weekend, it's working good. But it's not working when it's supposed to. I mean, it's flashing just good, everything. I don't know what we can do about it. I was with that out there with the Shad Department, and I reported it then. They said it was something about the batteries. They had a different company. They couldn't get in touch with the company. So I don't know what they're doing now. So that's all I have to say about that. Well, that's enough. We're going to check those lights out.

So we thank you for that. Right. Madam Clerk.

Our next speaker is Mylove Burke.

Hello. This feels like when you're getting sung happy birthday. Anyway, my name is Milo Burke. I'm 18 years old. I am a Fayetteville resident in District 9 and an upcoming student at FTCC. This is my first time speaking at a public forum. I'm here today because my sister, who is severely autistic, was in a safe and stable home in Greensboro since January after years of difficulty finding appropriate support. Despite finally being in safe care, Adult Protective Services removed her from that home today because the funding needed to support her care was not resumed. And there has been no clarity regarding the status of her Social Security benefits. My sister was diagnosed with autism at the age of two after our mother, despite being a first-time parent, recognized developmental delays early in her childhood. My mother has spent years advocating for support while navigating an exhausting and lonely process. We sought help through doctors, DSS, schools, and state and county organizations, and despite those efforts, our family reached a point of crisis in May of 2025 when we had to make the painful decision to contact local authorities for our safety and hers. That is why I'm speaking today about the lack of continuity and placement stability for disabled adults in Fayetteville. There is often little clarity regarding where disabled adults will be placed during care transitions. And in our experience, there has also been little clarity regarding the funding and resources necessary to support that care. I am asking city leadership to help improve coordination and transparency and how disabled adults are placed and supported during guardianship and care transitions. Families need clear communication, stronger support systems, and better guidance so that vulnerable adults are not put at risk of losing stable care because of administrative delays. Most importantly, adults with disabilities should not be left behind when they need support the most. Here are some potential solutions I can offer in the 50 seconds I have left. First off, when a disabled adult is living in stable and successful placement, there should be a clear transition plan before placement is disrupted. Secondly, there should be a greater transparency regarding placement availability. Families deserve to know what resources are available and what options exist when a crisis occurs. Families and caregivers should receive clear written explanations when major decisions are made regarding placement. placement, funding, or guardianship related delays. And when a disabled adult is already in safe and stable placement, every effort should be made to preserve that stability while legal and administrative matters are being resolved. Thank you for your time.

Good job, Ms. Burke, and we will communicate a lot of that to the county because they handle most of those functions that you mentioned, but thank you. Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Richard Van Wynne.

Mr. Richard, how are you, sir? Doing good, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. I'm here to speak this evening about possible moratorium on the building of data centers. I've been here off and on for 48 years and a permanent resident for 35 years. When I first came here, the economy was based on Fort Bragg, pawn shops, truck stops, and agriculture. Since then, there's been a move towards changing that, mainly because of the wake-up call that everyone received because of the desert storm in 1991. The largest move has been with the industrial parks and the Amazon warehouse. Having checked with both county and city planning sections, There are currently no plans anywhere in the county for the building of a data center. So to me, that suggests we have a lot of chicken little syndrome going on. That being said, I would find it really hard to believe that neither the city nor the county don't have somebody already determining the impact such a center would have and what could reasonably be supported in that time. Most people and politicians are interested in attracting higher paying jobs and more jobs, period. A data center would do both. Yes, it is true that once it is finished that the number of jobs it provides will be a drop in the bucket compared to the construction, but that is true of most construction projects. That doesn't mean we stop building. As for Goodyear closing, the employees have enough warning to start looking at other opportunities. Trades are very high demand right now for the foreseeable future. Yes, it will require some sacrifice on the part of the employee, but that's how you get ahead. Do everyone bring up Utah, Wyoming, Atlanta, and Texas? If someone were to try that size project here, you would need to cut off every business and its residents in the area to provide the resources. Believe it or not, I think our elected officials would have more sense than that. I've been asked if I am for it or against it. Right now, it is neither. That's because no one has submitted a proposal for what they want to do. When they submit the proposal, I'll review it and make my determination at that time. In 1910, there were municipalities that if you drove your car near a horse, you had to stop the car, take it apart, and reassemble it on the other side of the horse so as to not disturb the horse. People back then thought cars would never be amount to anything.

Thank you.

Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Theresa Burns.

Good evening, Ms. Burns.

Good evening. Good evening, everyone. I'm here also to discuss the moratorium for the data centers. We have all heard about the gross consumption of clean water.

Hold on one second, Ms. Burns. Let me reset your clock. Okay. All right, there you go.

We all have heard about the gross consumption of clean water, the poisoning of water and the environment, the noise and the emissions from the turbine engines, et cetera, plus the quote-unquote lying eyes of fellow constituents and myself that there is nothing being done when we can obviously see there's something being done and been told that there's no permits that have been issued. However, to stand by and say nothing, not to voice my adamant opposition to data centers is not an option concerning decision making indicates a potential flaw in the process as to how the choice was made. It shows up in recognizable ways such as overriding evidence provided, ignoring warnings, or chasing short-term rewards over long-term outcomes. There should be no unneeded to know decisions that have been entrusted to you made. Data center plans such as locations and options should be announced and not stumbled upon. We are entitled to complete transparency as it involves the water we drink, the air we breathe, the land some farm and many pay taxes on, and ultimately our health, both mental and physical. Ethical decision making is expected of all as leaders of the community. I am formally requesting a three-year moratorium for data centers that will not be rescinded without public notification and input. And that's all.

Mayor, our next speaker is Sherry Middleton.

Good evening, Ms. Middleton.

Let me put my readers on here. Good evening. My name is Sherry Middleton. I am also a TCO officer. I'm assigned to currently to E.E. Miller Elementary School over on Rim Road. I would like just to take a moment and talk about two safety concerns for the TCOs and the children of Fayetteville. Every day I see drivers that have become complacent. to school zone warning lights and speed limits, putting children, bus drivers, pedestrians, and TCOs in danger. I believe this is due to school zone lights being on after school hours, weekends, and holidays. If the lights were controlled by the TCOs, like some are, there are some schools where the TCOs actually turn the lights on and turn them off when they're done. They could be turned on before our shifts and turned off after the end of our shift, which would let drivers know that the school zone is actually active. Think of a school bus. When they put their lights on and their stop sign out, you know to stop. When they put it back in, you may proceed. Same type of thing. In addition, I would like to ask this council to look into placing those traffic cameras in school zone areas. It's impossible for a working TCO to pick up their phone and record a dangerous driver. When we have children in a crosswalk or actively directing traffic, we realize these requests cost money. from the city's budget, and there's a lot of requests from all over the city. However, we respectfully ask that these requests are looked at a serious safety issue, that for not only my fellow TCOs, but the school children, bus drivers, and pedestrians, that we work hard every day to keep safe, thank you.

Madam clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Sharon Harley.

Good evening, Ms. Harley.

Good evening. This may be the calmest you've ever seen me, and that's a blessing, right? Good evening to our distinguished council and all of those that have come out to do your civic duties. I certainly have appreciated hearing what you've all had to say. To make my life easier and your time a little sweeter, I'm going to read today. Sharon Harley is who I am. My why I'm here is due to Overcomers, the Bertie and Edmund Harley Center of Hope, Refuge, and Restoration, 1 John 5 and 5. Who is he that overcomes the world but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? We are Overcomers. Overcomers is a nonprofit organization committed to providing hope, refuge, restoration, and supportive services to individuals and families facing homelessness, domestic violence, veterans, challenges, financial hardship, and other life-altering circumstances. Through transitional living, through transitional housing, life skills development, financial literacy, career readiness, transportation assistance, mental health support, mentoring, and community outreach, we strive to help vulnerable individuals regain stability, restore dignity, and become self-sufficient members of society. The individuals I see and meet from bus stops, stores, and the day resource center, are you, young adults, families having everyday life situations, and just need a helping hand in our homeless and unhoused individuals. When these individuals don't receive the, I'm very nervous because I don't read well. When these individuals don't receive the help they need, we hear about them on the news from either trying to survive, being lured into behaviors that will ultimately put them in jail or kill them. I live in the Cliffdale area where there's a trailer park that attracts all of the above. They need to be put out of business and support needs to be placed where people's lives can be changed and not given a Band-Aid. It is many of these cases that cause criminal, that cause crime and increase in longer individual, okay, operates to survival mode and pushes them into that place. And so I am just asking as we continue to do the work that we do at Overcomers that we are receiving I made the mistake of saying a shelter, we're a shelter, but we are a program. So when people come to us, we are giving them all of the things that you heard me just read there. So that when they leave, they are self-sufficient individuals. And when it comes down even to those that have special abilities, I call them, we help them too.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Arlene Fields.

Good evening, Ms. Fields.

So my name is Arlene Fields, and I live in District 1. And Mayor Colvin and city council members, let me start by wishing Councilmember Honduras and all of our folks of Greek heritage and everyone, kaloumina. That's the Greek greeting given on the first day of the month to wish you a good month. So the role of technology in public safety continues to be debated, but I think the bigger issue with ShotSpotter, red light cameras, and similar programs is the invasion of privacy and the potential violation of our constitutional rights. For example, you may have recently seen that Dayton, Ohio is covering their surveillance cameras with black plastic bags after learning that Flock, the company that operates the cameras, was sharing their data with ICE. I had actually already planned on speaking on this topic before I saw council member McMillan's request for the city to conduct a review of its use of AI and surveillance technology. But it's not just city council that needs to think about how we use technology, but all of us. I'm not 100% against AI. It's customizing my Duolingo Spanish lessons just for me. But we as a society are becoming increasingly comfortable with the fact that we are constantly surveilled and treated as algorithmic data points. So now, instead of Santa mysteriously knowing if you've been bad or good, be good for goodness sake, he sent the elf on the shelf to make sure you know he's watching. Broadening that to public surveillance, some folks might say, well, don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to worry about. In the good old days, all we had to worry about was people taking our words out of context and twisting them against us. Now, our words and our pictures can be fed into an AI agent to create a likeness of us that doesn't simply blur the line between fact and fiction, but erases it completely. I recently made the decision to disconnect my smart speakers and smart electrical outlet plug. Maybe Alexa isn't eavesdropping, but every weather forecast, celebrity age, or driving distance that I ask for in my smart device gets plugged into an algorithm that is used to bombard me with targeted advertising and create social media and information bubbles that separate us rather than bringing us together. I'm tired of being the product. I want to be the consumer. There's something grounding about physically turning a light switch on or off. Why are we so eager to outsource the experiences that make us human? The more impersonal and intangible our solutions are, the more we lose touch with what it means to be human. I believe that human intelligence and human creativity will always be the best way to solve human problems. I urge you to look into people first strategies that make technology our servant, not our master. Thank you.

Mayor, our next speaker is Bobby Burgess.

Good. So the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. And unfortunately, I feel pretty insane right now standing up here speaking to all of you because it has been made clear that it seems that you only care about the citizens who vote for you, which isn't typically my age demographic or people who bring up controversial topics. But I'll be damned if I live in a surveillance city run by people who believe that short-term financial gains in things like hyperscale data centers without moratoriums lead to long-term sustainable city development. And I know you all know what sustainable city development means or looks like because you kicked back UDO changes earlier this afternoon to ensure there wasn't downsizing in them and to talk about how to increase housing density through potentially those same UDOs. People don't want camera drones over their head or microphones in their neighborhood. Residents need affordable rental properties and attainable home ownership. Residents want children's programming and neighborhood block parties. Residents want empathetic mental health individuals to show up at their door when they can't show up for themselves. You have an opportunity to reallocate funding from police surveillance technologies towards a proven community safety model that would address crime at its source. And the youth should not be shorted for mental health provisions. If OCS does not at least maintain their fiscal year 2026 budget, a portion of the $500,000 needed for two mental health response teams will have to be taken from the youth programming budget. For reference, ShotSpotter, which in the last six months has only produced one arrest from an independent ShotSpotter notification, cost the city about 220K annually. Oh, would you look at that? That's roughly the amount you'd be cutting OCS by. Needless to say that the rest of surveillance technology would come to a total of $800,000 for all the police surveillance technologies. So 500K is kind of a steal if you ask me. Fayetteville is at a critical juncture in development. We're either going to create a city that puts sustainable community-based options at the forefront, or we will remain a dumping ground for large corporations because they know the city council does not have the spine or is motivated by other means to stand up to them. Yes, I'm referring to hyperscale data centers there. We still want a moratorium. Don't get it twisted. I may not be the demographic that votes for you, but that doesn't mean my voice should matter any less. Please prove to me that it doesn't and take mine and my colleagues' requests seriously. Don't cut OCS. Give us an AI data center moratorium and fund the things that actually make the city move forward.

All right, Madam Clerk, and before you call the next one, I'd like to recognize former council member Courtney Banks-McLaughlin. Where you at? I saw you tip in here, ma'am. How you doing? Thank you. All right, Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Angela Tatum.

Good evening. My name is Angela Tatum, and I reside in District 5. So, like Bobby said, we've been here. Y'all know what we're asking for, a moratorium. It's not that hard to understand. Questions have been raised as to why do we need a moratorium when we're in the middle of this stay? I don't know what it's for. You have to study things. I am part of a five-year study on the efficacy of doulas. Five years. I already know the answer, but it's five years. Y'all can give us... a year to make sure that you're getting the research that's gonna focus on us. The tax revenue, we don't have guarantees. I gave you information that the counties that did not improve tier status, they have the data centers. The ones that did improve tier status, they did not have data centers that were currently operational. So also, let the community come and be a part of this. For you to say, well we already have it together, we already know what restrictions that we can present to you all. Whenever you don't let the people that are gonna be affected by the decisions that you make be at the table with you, you always stand the risk of harming them. That's across every industry that there is. Whether it's healthcare, education, this data center issue, you have to let the people be a part of the conversation before you create the restrictions and the UDOs. Also, I saw something on Facebook about a potential, and I hope Janet's here and she can talk about it, but I asked each of you who was approached first about this data center. The only people that I have not spoken with is Councilman Thompson and Councilman Hare. I even spoke... and probably, okay, I'll give you, Councilman Ferguson. I wanted to know where did this come from? Like, you know, who directed staff? And what it looks like is that a pre-application was put in October 1st, 2025, for Custer Avenue. So what I want to know is, what is that about? Because something happened, we're not dumb, something happened to spark things to start going, especially when part of your council members didn't even know what was happening. So what we want is, slow this down, Let us come together. Let's get the studies out. Have communications with the community. You know how to hold town halls. We did them for the Merckson Choice Neighborhood Award when you were trying to get that together. And really engage with the people that are coming to you so that you can get it right. Get the protections in and hear what they want to have and what they don't want to have. And do what's best for the people that you say that you serve in this community. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Janelle Kimbrough.

Good evening, ma'am.

Good evening. My name is Janelle Kimbrough. I'm the director of Sustainable Sandhills and a resident of District 1. I want to share with you a story about a gentleman that I recently met. He lives in a rural community in Cumberland County where water has been contaminated by PFAS and other forever chemicals. Like many of our residents, he has been afraid to use his water for years. Then, last week, his worst nightmare happened. He lost his wife to a disease often related to water contamination. She passed away last Thursday morning. That very same night, he attended a town hall meeting to rally his neighbors against the polluters that have been poisoning our air, water, and land for years. Why? As one of his neighbors put it, to stop the insanity. This gentleman is one of many people whose lives have been impacted by water contamination in our region's lifeline, the Cape Fear River. Through our work on PFAS and other water quality issues, we have met people who are dealing with chronic illnesses such as kidney disease and thyroid cancer, people who have lost their livelihoods because they can't grow produce or raise livestock on polluted land, people who can't sell their homes because their property values have decreased so dramatically due to contaminated wells. Sadly, These people are becoming the rule and not the exception. These people often feel helpless because they are fighting corporations with deep pockets and even shallower consciences. And our state's lawmakers have largely failed to regulate these bad actors. The city of Fayetteville, though, has the power to prevent the further contamination of our Cape Fear River and prevent more bad actors from using our sandhills as ground zero for pollution. Pass a moratorium on data centers. Data centers will threaten our quantity and quality of water, which is already under duress. If you do allow data centers, the city must require stringent environmental regulations to prevent damage to our natural resources and our public health. Our quality of life depends on your forward-thinking action. Our people should always come before profits. You cannot have a thriving economy or a thriving society on a dead planet. It is time for the city of Fayetteville to step up and with a collective voice say no to more bad actors in our backyard. To say we value our health, we value our environment, and we value the opinions of our constituents. Please act now to prevent our region's lifeline from flatlining. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Fern Davis.

First of all, happy Pride Month everybody. I know not everybody celebrates, but too bad we're not going anywhere. So you'll just have to deal with us. So I had notes. True to my form, I left them at home. So I was just going to have to go with this by vibes. Besides, people have pretty hit the points I was going to hit already pretty hard. So the point I want to hit right now is the economic value of a data center, right? Because that's the argument we hear in favor, right? Fayetteville needs development. We do. I mean, I'm not going to argue that. We need something because we've raised taxes and cut services the last two years at least that I've moved back here. So what is the economic impact of a data center, right? Even though largest hyperscalers are only going to employ long term, yeah, anywhere from 50 to 250, maybe 300 people. That's about as much as a Walmart supercenter, which sounds good, especially when they're marketing for super high-paying jobs, which will in reality only be maybe two, three dozen people total. The rest will work in janitorial and security, which, look, I'm not going to turn my nose up at those jobs. Those are important jobs. They should probably be paid a lot more than they usually are, but they're not what they're selling you on. Okay? It's all smoke and mirrors. And Fayetteville is a colony. Let's be real. It's colonialism in Fayetteville. This city operates for people who are not from here and are not going to stay here in large numbers. That's what it feels like y'all care most about up there. Because that's what the money, I guess, is going to be. But if we don't invest in the people here, it ain't going to matter. And there is this real big sense in Fayetteville that this city council, and the last city council for that matter, prioritized Band-Aid solutions. The appearance of doing something rather than actually making a change. Because, yes, change is uncomfortable. For examples, how about that 7-Eleven that nobody wanted? That's not density. How about ShotSpotter? Let's see. How about the, oh gosh, what do you call it? Don't let kids outside after a certain amount of time? Thank you, the curfew. They did nothing and never would because it's been studied dozens of times, but y'all did it anyway because it made you feel like you did something. sorry if that's harsh do better people here don't believe that you care about what the people of this city want and you're going to do what you want to do anyway prove us wrong okay prove us wrong or don't but I wouldn't be out there acting like I have a mandate like some of y'all do with the voter turnout of that last election I wouldn't be proud of that so my challenge to you is do better or prove to us that you are exactly what many of us think you are

Our next speaker is Wade Fowler.

Former council member, former commissioner. How you doing?

Well, honorable mayor and council members, I'm going to lighten your load a little bit. We're not gonna be talking about such a heavy topic, but I think it's really important for us. My name is Wade Fowler, I live in District 6, Council Member Thompson. I wanna thank you for hearing my comments this evening, and I once sat there as you do now, as a matter of fact, I sat right over there. And so I've tried my best to prepare coherent comments to make sure that the salient points come forward to you, and I have made copies of this so you can have it to look at later if you want, and gave to the clerk. But I'm here to actually talk about pickleball. uh... in sports in general here with uh... with what we've just uh... just about ready i think the open the new tennis center is that correct which has four pickleball courts and they didn't ask the ball players about how high the fence should be there for the six-foot fence or a pickleball court so we'll have to chase pickleballs all over the place uh... hopefully they can put a little bit higher fence but a pickleball is the fastest growing sport in america now as a matter of fact it's the fastest growing sport in the world And it's playable with a wide range of players on the same court that are of different ages. Matter of fact, I'm 72. I played on a court with somebody in their 50s, somebody in their 30s, and a 12-year-old. And we had a great game, which is one of the things that makes it great. And it makes it great for cross-generational societal growth. It really unites the young and the old together. And we really don't right now have a pickleball facility that is truly able to host a pickleball tournament, which pickleball tournaments are growing rapidly. That's why we built the tennis center, as I understand it, is to be able to have tennis tournaments and that type of thing. So I went to look at it, and it's a very nice facility. But then I found out that the eight courts at the bottom of Maserate Park are planned to be turned into eight clay tennis courts. That could be made into 14 or 15 pickleball courts. You could take the courts that are at Massey Hill right now. There are six pickleball courts at Massey Hill. You could turn those into clay tennis courts because you're going to have to resurface them both places no matter what. And I'm telling you right now, I have visited pickleball courts all over the city. I have visited tennis courts all over the city. You know which ones are full? The pickleball courts. I just was at a conference in Phoenix, Arizona, was at a facility that is a resort facility that has a nice racket center. They had 14 pickleball courts, four tennis courts. So I'm just asking you to look at the idea that maintenance, by the way, you have to water the courts if they're clay courts, doing that twice a day at least is not good in a drought. And the pickleball courts would require less water. And so I'm just asking you to consider looking at the plan. You can get more bang for your bucks. You're going to get more people playing. You're going to impact the city better if you turn those lower courts down there that actually have facilities. We have nothing but portalettes at any of our pickleball courts right now. So appreciate your thoughts on that. There's some more comments here that you'll be able to see. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Madam Clerk.

Mayor, our next speaker is Michaela Brice.

Madam Clerk, excuse me, Ms. Brice. What's our time?