Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

6 o'clock. So, we will call to order the meeting of the New Palestine Planning Commission. Uh if everybody would please join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Can we have the roll call, please? Ted Melender here. Chris Mormont here. Owens here. Newer here. Ryan Hartley here. Brian Smith here. Here.

Okay, we have a quorum. So, we will proceed. The first item on our agenda is consideration of the minutes from our meeting of August 6th. So, can I get a motion regarding the minutes from our August the 6th meeting, please? I'll make a motion that we approve the planning commission minutes from August 6, 2025. A second.

Okay, we have a second. So, because it has been moved and seconded and it is now open for discussion, are there any comments, concerns, edits? Minutes look pretty accurate to me. See no discussion. All those in favor of approving the minutes from August 6th as presented in your backup materials, please indicate by saying I. I. I. Motion carries and the minutes are approved. The next item under old business is a discussion regarding the sidewalks, sprinklers, basketball goals, signage. Um Ryan, you have anything on that this evening?

I don't. Chris and I have not had a chance to work on that, so I'll suggest we move that. uh keep it under old business and move it down the road. We we did discuss that today and and we'll be working on that. Okay. So, how about a motion to table that item? I'll make a motion to table the re code review for sidewalk sprinklers, basketball, goals, and signage. I'll second. Okay. It's been moved and second. Is there any discussion regarding the matter? All those in favor of tableabling item 3.1, please indicate by saying I. I. I.

Thank you. The next item, now we're under new business on our agenda and that is consideration of an amendment to ordinance number. Let me defer and ask Brenda. It's 2025. What is the rest of the ordinance? Go ahead. Well, whoever. It's 0825. Yes. No ABCs. No ABC's and no 2025 in front of it. That should be it's 0825.

Okay. I just want to make sure that we refer to the ordinance correctly. So at this time I think procedurally uh we need a preliminary motion and I will let Zach explain what the preliminary motion is.

Sure. Uh ordinarily for uh zoning amendments of this nature um The petitioner is required to submit a petition to the planning commission 20 days in advance. Um but because this substantially complies with the existing uh zoning ordinance, you can just go ahead and wave that requirement. So um what we'd ask is you if you choose to do so, you um do that by motion and and vote and then we can go ahead and hear the uh hear the petitioner. I will make a motion to wave the 20-day requirement. I'll second that motion. Go ahead. So, is there any discussion regarding that motion?

Yeah, I got a question about the term substantially comply. Is that Can you elaborate on that or we've reviewed it? I mean, there's there's minimal changes and we feel that it's it's fine to go ahead and wave that requirement. It's it's it's normally done so that the planning commission has time to review all the petitioners um submissions, but it's there's minimal changes. Okay. Yeah, that was that's one of my concerns that we can bring up later, but u absolutely about the time we talked about it last week, Bill. So, okay. Um any other comments or questions, concerns regarding the motion? Uh all those in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying I.

I. I. Motion carries. will wave the 20-day requirement and we will now proceed with consideration of ordinance number 082025 and I will yield the floor to whoever wants to make the presentation. Thank you very much. I need to be sworn in or are we good? Nope. Just state your name for the record and your address and have at

my favorite baseball team and go on. No, no, we we we know that. We'll get in. For the record, my name is Harold Gibson with Anot Health. I'm the director of property development. Address is uh 6189 West John. Well, it's a pleasure to be here in front of the commission and many faces names are different from when we were here a few years ago. I'm not here alone. with us is a a very strong team from Kroger, some from Milwaukee, some from Ohio, some from Indian Minneapolis, and I'll let Miss McBride introduce those uh in a few seconds. U that's all right. I probably would mispronounce lots of names. So, and I'll let you try all I'm not trying to Well, uh again, uh thank you very much. I appreciate your consideration and uh hearing us this evening. I can assure you that we have been communicating the staff some time on this. Um, Burger has had meetings uh here with the town and staff to go over many things and it wasn't our intention to uh file anything related. Um, that probably lies on my shoulders because there's just so much here. Uh, but we appreciate the opportunity to present this amendment to you. Um, where should we start? Uh I I think it's appropriate for some of the obvious in the crowd maybe new members to think back just a few years ago this precoid 2018 2019 and we're talking about the project at healthway park southwest corner of 600 west in US 52 this is what it looked like in 2018 hospital at that time I was in my own firm came to me and said hey we have a project and we talked about buying some ground we want to build a campus and we want to serve the folks of New Palestine and serve township as well as we've been in better that time you might remember we had a small clinic we were busting at the seams and what we did was providing medical services here for the town and uh so we started

looking for some ground and we looked at various places but the place that we kept coming back to was the site that we're on now uh some of you may remember the storage facility that was there uh some of you may not I even forget about it sometimes we tore a storage facility down the road that relocated east of town that was here we also bought bought a rental property along US52. We bought uh 60 acres of farm ground and we ended up buying a second home. So, there was quite an effort for the hospital to go through to acquire the property to begin development of what we now know as Healthway Park. At the time we started, zoning was it was annexed. Um not all was annexed, by the way, as you recall. We annexed some property, but the zoning was a a mix of zonings. So, it was our proposal to the town that we set up a unit development plan that was allowed by your zoning ordinance. And your zoning ordinance has a very extensive list of items in there for what you had to meet to become a UDP. You're going to hear that quite often tonight. Sometimes you may hear it in other municipalities as a PUD or HUD. Your ordinance calls it a UDP. So, we'll try to remember that correctly. But what you see on the map here uh is uh basically our land use plan which is the major component of the UDP. Um so here was our wellness center. We had a project at the time and we knew where we wanted to go. So that's how it looked. We included that. And then we have these colored areas. Area B is along 600 West. Area C which is incorrectly labeled. It's labeled area E. One of the things we're hopefully going to correct tonight. That was my fault. Not perfect. I don't know. I was surprised to see that. So, we have lock C, which is the detention pond and area D. So, that made up our master plan. As I said, one of the things we're going to ask you tonight is consider correcting that error and correctly brought it to our

attention very early on that we had area C, but it wasn't laid on. So, we also presented you a land use uh a development plan of conceptually what that might look like. One of the things we're going to talk about in a second is a UDP is an advantage to the developer and the municipality to work together for the future. It gives you creativity. It gives you flexibility. It's intended to be over a period of time. And here we are seven years into this. We've got some things developed, but we're also tonight asking for a change which is intended as part of the way the rules were written in UDP. So you can see we knew that while the center was here, we had an idea that we were going to have several large retail businesses with smaller uses in it and that hasn't came to fruition. Not good or bad. It just was a way that we had projected it out. We had some outlaws along the south side of Leyon Lane and we continue to have our detention policy. So part of the UDP uh that I I have here and some of you I hopefully I know it was passed around some of you may have read it if you haven't that's okay I understand uh it's very very well voluminous and it's intended to be that way and the UDP says basically come to us and present us an ordinance and we'll see if we can work together and get along with that because our current zoning ordinance doesn't just quite fit the mold. So we build our own ordinance and we get you to review it and if you like it we pass it and that's what we or governs our 66 acres from that point on. So the keys listed down the left side and I'm not going to go into them are all the things that correlate specifically with your zoning code. Those sections some apply some don't. Some we wanted to amend some we didn't. So you can see there's like land use number one permitted uses. We struck out a lot of the permitted uses in the business district districts because it just didn't

uh fit well with our wellness center that we we proposed. You have lighting standards, residential standards, trees, blood plans, many many things that make up that needed development plan. And again, it goes right along with your uh with with your zoning. You might notice that section 16 through section 27, we didn't change those. we went right along with your zoning board and said those still apply. [Music] So in part of the PUD that there again I QDP uh you can see in yellow it's intended to provide flexibility through the application of customary zoning regulations promote physical development pattern of the community including mixeduse development. So that's exactly what we have here. We have medical, we have office, we have retail, we have residential. Uh a perfect mixeduse UDP plan to simplify the process. So we hopefully eliminate the variance process that might happen if you come in with a project that doesn't just fit all of the the eyes and the te's of a development code. So we eliminate the process of having to ask for variances on certain things. And I think it's important to notice that the planning commission has the right to continually review this from time to time and allow for change circumstances and conditions unforeseen at the original time. This is not the first time we've done this. This is the second time we've done this. You might recall our original plan did not allow for residential standards. We didn't think we would have any residential standards here. Well, as we know, if you were involved in the amendment we did for Muhammad Bakovic, the residential project that assumed to break ground to the south of us, that 24 acres, we brought to you a proposal that established the design for those buildings, established the site plan, established the density, and we were

very, very blessed that you all approved that. And that is the rules now that apply to that South and we did it through this process. advertised, had a public hearing, had an ordinance, and I didn't learn from that ordinance, and I still put 2025. It was marked out then, too. [Music] So, under the unit development ordinance, it tells you uh all the rules and the things that we have to do. And one of the things that the zoning administrator can do is make minor changes, but one of the things that it cannot do is change the uses permitted. And what we're here tonight to talk about is a change in a use permitting. You're going to hear us introduce a fuel center to you. Uh at the time in 2020, we did not permit fuel centers. So the zoning author's administrator is not allowed to make that change. Small changes he's allowed to make through a zoning amend administrative amendment. But this of course is right along with your rules that we're here tonight presenting. So the concept plan we talked about that that's important uh in the event area D is developed for two family tax multif family residential site development shall be substantially similar to that shown on the exhibit uh A that's what we did when we came in with the first amendment and as you can see there at the top the correct ordinance number is 010522 and that was in January of 2022 we brought to you the first amendment and that was for the multif family use that I just mentioned ago. Those [Music] were twostory residential apartments. Now there's a little bit of secret rumor. I don't think it's I don't think it's a rumor anymore. I think Mr. Kovic wants to change that. He wants to reduce the number of units. He wants to change and go to a three-story product. So he's going to be coming in shortly through us and asking you for a subsequent amendment to that. Times have changed. Three years have passed. Needs are

different. Conditions are different. So he will be uh doing that shortly. Since then, uh we have some activity going on at the site and our land use plan is becoming coming to fruition. So, here's an example of a multi-tenant building that's under construction now that you see on Leyon Lane and 600 West. And then here is the site as uh as we know things are headed down the pipe. This is Mr. Pov's apartment layout that we've seen. You haven't seen it yet. It's not not presenting at night for approval. Just trying to give you an idea how this plan is evolving. This is the multi-tenant building that is under construction now. Believe there's five sites in that. I think a couple of them are leased out. We're getting significant interest for two miles along 600 West from office space to medical space. Uh fast food restaurant is in a very popular uh uh use right now uh that that are interested. We have daycare that is also interested in coming to the site. So interest is picking up and I have to believe it's also that interest is not only because things are happening around town but it's because of here with us this evening and we're happy they're with us. So specifically what is our request this evening? As I said already number one I need to make sure we correct our typo. There are no standards for area E. You look through that book and you were looking for area E. in binary of the family detention law. Okay. So, please uh consider that. We also are wanting to strike out some of our uses under area C. So, now I want to draw your attention that we are going to focus in on area C tonight. That's that's really what we're focusing on. We're not focusing on the other areas. We can be very specific in this use and this amendment is catered and drafted to that uh area only.

Harold, just a second there. What page is that? I'm sorry. Just so I can follow at home here. So, what page is that on? I really uh So, what what I passed on and I appreciate you interrupting me there on that. Stop because what we passed this evening is a red line version of what was filed because we did find a few errors. So, what's in front of you tonight is the latest version we'd like you to consider. And what's in red line to show you is kind of insignificant changes, but we felt it was necessary to show you. So, what is on the page right there, screen right there, 3.01 is on page two.

Okay. So, what you've shown up till now has been off off of this booklet,

but yeah, I should have explained that. I apologize. So, I just want to hit some of the highlights. Um, so we we are striking out now that we're five years into this process. We know there are some uses that we thought would be good uses in 2020 that now we are happy to strike them out. So you can see greenhouse crop production research laboratories industrial uses we don't want those anymore. So we're in this amendment we're saying you can't do that in 2020 you could. Tonight we're asking you to consider that and accept this amendment there. They can't. Really the the main thing we want to talk about is adding the following permitted uses. And number one is a fuel center and number two would be a shopping center of 95,000 square feet or more. Currently, a shopping center is permitted in area C, if you allow me to call it that. It can't be any larger than 50,000 square ft. That's what we thought uh we wanted in 2020. And quite frankly, area C by itself is only 7 acres. It probably doesn't support anything more than 50,000 square ft. But because of what we're proposing tonight, we want to change that to 95,000 square feet uh or more. And we want to allow a fuel center. And I think it's important to consider when a fuel center can be used. And that is as an accessory use. We're not saying we want a fuel center there by itself. We're asking you to consider a fuel center with a primary use such as a supermarket or shopping center. So if I wanted to go down and operate a convenience store on area C, I can't do that. If I follow that, it has to be an accessory use to a primary use. And that primary use is defined. And then it sets up some standards. No overnight parking. Uh no outside collection centers, various things like that that we feel are important to continue with raising the bar and standards that we have there

for park. We've added definitions to fuel center because you do not have a definition of fuel center in your zoning code. So we've added the definition of a fuel center and you should see immediately uh and again these are numbered sections. So if you want to put food you want to go back it's in numerical order so you can get to section 26 and see this an accessory used to a principal supermarket or grocery store. Uh just a highlight again it's there to dispense gasoline or diesel. Uh, no semi-tractor trucks allowed to be parked there. Uh, it is allowed to have delivery trucks delivering gasoline or diesel products and delivery trucks to the supermarket. There are other things in there that I will let Ann get into. Uh, as far as the specific uses of the supermarket and fuel center. I I'm not trying to uh steal her presentation at all. I've seen her in action and she does a great job of that. We've also added shopping center definition because uh we are in the process of acquiring the adjacent 48 acres and this shopping center will take a part of the seven acres and most uh and most of it will be on the 48 acres to the site. So it'll be 15 to 17 acres in total for the shopping center but it fits the definition of a a shopping center with a fuel center. the fuel center has to have a primary use with it. So, it can't be there by itself. So, here's a site plan of area C. Again, this is area C. North is to the left. Fit better on the page. I hope that confused anybody. Uh, but here's the fuel center. Fuel center would be by the roundabout. Uh, you can see some of the landscaping that u the engineers have depicted quite well. Fuel centers here. Nine uh stations. side one total of 18 pumps. It will be

out of can be over it access way and off of West Le and again the supermarket grocery store retail center shown here. So that will qualify the site for a fuel center in this example that that we presented. These are just some elevations of what the fuel center would look like. So in the UDP we also establish development standards that uh deal with things like setback uh parking spaces, landscaping, architectural features, height of canopy, design of canopy, signs, lighting. Uh all of those components are in the UDP and they're either specifically laid out in the ordinance before you this evening or they are conceptually presented to you with the uh ability of the controlling developer which is the hospital to continue discussions with in this case Kroger on the final design of that. They can get better but they can't get less screws. the kiosk. There's a typical kiosk that you see around. Uh these are going to be masonry uh exteriors. Uh just another example. And again, Ann will will detail this in much much greater depth than I can. Uh here's an example of what the elevations of the Kroger will look like. Very very nice. This is a new prototype for them. So, if you've been around and seen Kroger's, uh you've probably seen various front facades, uh that have different gables, uh different roof types, gables, hips, uh two stories, uh whatever the case may be, depending on geographically where it's at. As well, uh so I I'll save more of that. We will be uh proposing that the entry signs be modified rather than have a

separate sign for the uh supermarket. We decided it would be best if we modified the existing one and I can take no credit for this. Miss Ramsey and her sign company did a fabulous job taking this is the existing sign right there. We're going to add Kroger logo with the gasoline pricing signs. Uh then we'll put tenant labels plates in this area and we'll move all the way to the uh to the bottom. Uh, Harold, if I can interrupt you just briefly. So this evening you handed out an amended document and I just want to point everybody's attention to page 12

and the document that was handed out this evening because one of the questions that I had and I think that this page 12 answers on the prior draft that we received page 13 I had a note to ask what this would actually look like because on page 13 of the original document, there are some very rough drawings, but it doesn't really show what it's going to look like. There's some labeling. So, I appreciate the fact, and you must have been reading my mind and probably everybody else's mind. I had the same question

to what does that look like? So, adding page 12 in the the new handout is very helpful. So, thank you. Well, you're welcome. We're happy to be able to provide that. I can't take a lot of credit for it except the program team. And please understand um we wanted to be a little more complete in detail and was really trying to get me to be that way, but they're busy with other stores as well and other municipalities and their team like I said from Milwaukee and Ohio, they have other zoning places they have to get to and then they have their architects and their engineers. And at the time that we filed this, uh, we just didn't have as much together as we did now. So, I appreciate the the the time extra time that we had. But, um, the good news is, uh, again, signage is important in your zoning code. U signage is important to our UDP. Some of these examples that I show you would not comply with your zoning code relative to signs because of size and square footage. Most zoning codes do not allow development signs of this nature and they restrict you on the size of signage. Therefore, we've added this in the unit development plan. So, there is no reason to go for a variance. Now, you can certainly say we don't like that size. You have that opportunity. We'll have to consider if we can change that or not. But when we present this to you, we're present it presenting it in a way that that is the standard that we're going to be held to. and and in the in the ordinance there are many many pages on sign standards and details that gives you the dimensions and things more so than I'm just presenting you on onation. So this is the uh overall site plan uh area C price line is this point and you can see this the overall site plan for the supermarket and again I'll save that for but I do want to point out that one of the things

asking for is an elimination of landscape buffer. So in the beginning when we had the 60 acres when we had the almost 60 acres this was our west line. We were requiring whoever developed this to have a landscape buffer with the neighbor to the west. We didn't know who else would be. So we said okay if we're going to develop this we got to put a landscape buffer there. Well, now that we know the proposal is to expand to the west, there's no reason to have that landscape while we're running through the middle of area C and our property to the west. So, we're deleting it if it's developed as a fuel center and a supermarket. So, if something would happen that this plan wouldn't go forward and it's not developed as a fuel center, it's developed as an office park, that buffer would still have to be there. So, but we're deleting it if it's developed as center.

And again, that's because as originally designed, that landscaping buffer would be right through the middle of the store. It'd make it hard to shop unless you're shopping trees. Okay. It could make a nice courtyard. I don't know. They're pretty good.

It could apple trees in. generally just the concept of eliminating landscaping isn't wellreceived but here I think that might make some sense is not that's so the last thing and then I'll move out of the way uh because I think the other folks have more exciting things to say this is the 40 acres that 40 acres that we have uh are in process acquiring we got help because when government came to us we didn't have enough land to support them so we agreed We went out and were able to acquire an agreement on this and this gives you the the overall site. We'll be extending Leon Lane to the west. We'll be building detention ponds to the west. Actually, the drainage breaks really nicely. The sheds to the west, the sheds to the east. All of this through storm water drainage from area C was already sized to go into the pond. It's a beautiful thing. uh the sewage will be extended um and then we'll come up with a UDP zoning orders that will hopefully be presenting to you next month that will cover and govern authority ac uh and it will obviously be much like that volume that I showed you in a few seconds. U so that gives you the whole plan and and at this time I will just uh defer to Miss and she can share lots of fun. landscape.

Yeah, just a question here. No, I just wanted to say so the where the landscape buffer is and where you're going over that will fall behind the where the current hardware store is. That buffer will stop at the north line of Sea. Mhm. And South Line American Sea. That's the only place that we're deleting it. So, it will still be in existence north of that and south of that, I guess. What about the west line over there? I think that's the question. To the west end. Yeah. Is that the question? I'm sorry. So, that right there.

Yeah. So, there would be no reason for us to put the landscape up here. We're not proposing one. proposing that the landscape plan look like that as there's a sub street in the north. So agreed to landscape that area along that street. So that'll act as a nice use whatever that is to the west. Well, I believe that's the hardware store. Correct. To the west. North. No hardware store to the north. Oh, I see. The west is just land. Okay. For now. Yeah. that answer maybe doesn't sound like I did a good job of that.

My my question is does the uh the drive that that handles um best insight and and the businesses that are in there in the hardware store there is is that going to connect? So maybe the driver to get back to the hardware store is right here. Mhm.

that we we can I can tell you we had conversations with the land owner and we were unable to come to terms with with that uh purchase. Um with us connecting and having Leon Wayne connect Wilson way and they did a study that we did with the Indiana Department for Transportation. I got to believe they probably like the idea not connecting because of the limited space between those two drives. So um I can tell you we did ask the question there was a time through our meetings and and working through this with program that that was considered. There have been a lot of things considered it just didn't work out. So and this is probably a good point for me to and I apologize that I didn't do this at the very beginning. So procedurally what's going to happen. We're going to allow Harold to make his presentation. anyone from Kroger to further present regarding the request and then we're going to open the floor to the public for any public questions or comments. Um so there will be an opportunity for anybody in the public that would like to speak on the matter to do so and then once that has happened you know then we'll do our deliberations and make any decisions that we want to make this evening. So I again I apologize I should have stated that earlier so that public comment will be received.

Okay. Thank you.

It was a tough act to follow but I'm going to do my best. Um my name is Ann McBride. My address for the record is 5721 Dragonway Cincinnati. I'm part of the Ohio Contingency uh 45227. Uh with me this evening I have representatives of Kroger uh facility engineering who's located here in Indianapolis. Uh uh Kroger Real Estate who have come down from Milwaukee, Wisconsin for this evening's meeting. Uh we also have folks from Midland Atlantic who's the brokerage firm as well as uh representatives from Kimberly Horn who's the civil site uh engineer in case you should have some questions that way. So they're all available for questions if there are things that I can't answer but I will try first. Okay. So, Kroger is really excited about the possibility of being a part of this development that Hancock Health has created. Um, it's a very it's a very exciting opportunity for them to be a part of the community and a part of this development in particular. Um, they are proposing to develop a Kroger marketplace store on approximately about 16.7 acres of this development. Um the site is bounded to and accesses to um South Roy Wilson way to the north and northeast so to speak, not straight north southfield. Uh and also has access as I think Harold mentioned on Wesley Leon way um to the south. The development that Kroger is proposing for this site and you'll hear more about this in the months and so forth to come if the project is allowed to go forward would be for a new Kroger prototype. This is actually the first one. I've been doing Kroger work for um 35 years or so. So, it's the first time I've done one of these stores. It's kind of exciting to have a new one to play with. Uh it's a 99,000 square foot um Kroger marketplace store. It would have features such as um the Murray Cheese Department, which is really fabulous. Um they have sushi um that they make on site a lot of times. They have a lot of ready to go meals. Um, salads and things that you can take home to heat up if

you're running late or you don't feel like cooking tonight. Um, a del expanded deli. Uh, obviously seafood and meats, produce and so forth. And then um, seasonal items depending like right now the Halloween candy is coming in, not Christmas decorations yet, which is good. Um, so this is, as I mentioned, Kroger's newest store type and design. Um Harold showed you some uh elevations of what the store would look like and I'll talk about that in a minute. But this is all new. This is you guys are getting the first shot at this. So that's exciting too. Um there is also proposed um adjacent on the east side of the Kroger uh a 30,000 square foot um retail building. That tenant isn't known. It's not I'm not disclosing it. We just don't know that. Right. Um so on the east side though of the site um as you can see over I'm sorry east side of the site um is the Kroger fuel center and Harold talked a little bit about that. Um it does have a canopy over it. You can see that on the on the site plan and underneath there there are nine double-sided dispensers. So there's 18 points of obtaining fuel overall on the site. Okay. There is a kiosk um which would have a Kroger associate in it. um and that the colors, the building materials and so forth would match those used on the store as will the columns for the canopy and so forth. Um the canopy itself is 19 ft to the top of that but the lower end of that is 15t 6 in and the reason for that is it keeps the semisics out. Okay. So unlike maybe some of the speedways or some of the other things you see and well they're not intending to but they've got cheap diesel and so somebody can get their truck in there. they're not going to get a truck under the under the Kroger canopies because I know that is a concern sometimes by some of the communities that we locate in. So, it's designed that way for for a purpose. Okay.

So, Miss McBride, can I ask a question? I know you said that this is a new prototype. Has a similar building been built anywhere else? Because when I and the reason I'm asking is if we wanted to go and look and see Thompson Road 10600 106 in Alison building but that is a a larger store. It's 123,000 square foot store. So if you go in it it's not it's not going to appear as big I guess because this is 99,000. It's a It's a whole new but it's similar on the elevation

materials, colors. Yes. Uh fuel center also similar to to what you would be getting. And I maybe it's not fair to hit you with pop questions, but at 116th in Allisonville, how many pumps are there?

Okay. And again, I know that was a pop quiz, so Well, we'll let you know later if he passed or not, okay? Because we can pull it up in the car and we'll we'll let you know whether or not. So, Ann, you said that was 123,000 ft. That the story. Yes. Yet the elevations all the way around it are Okay. Very good. Just a little bit smaller.

Okay. Um, and I think important to note like for example on the and the detail that's gone into this uh on the kiosk, the mechanical equipment that's mounted on the roof will be screened just like the mechanical equipment on the building will be screened from view. So, you're not going to see anything you really don't want to see. Um, there is a a dumpster enclosure. I'm not tall enough uh in that location and that is because everybody, myself included, these guys have heard me say this a thousand times. What do you do? you get rid of the empty Diet Coke can when you, you know, get gas. Um, so we want to make sure that that that's properly handled on site. Um, that will be in a masonary enclosure with solid gates and then, uh, there is landscaping around it on three sides. So, that would be very well screened. Um, there is some limited outdoor display and I think you have examples of some of that. You know, there was a time when everybody had stacks of mulch top than me and you know, so forth. all of this information with the exception of the propane cage because it can't be under a building because of the contents. Um but but and it is located there. It is also screened on three sides by landscaping the propane cage. Um but all of the uh other limited outdoor display in that area will either be in coolers like pop or snacks, that kind of thing, or even like the firewood will be in um I think they're maybe Rubbermaid. uh containers that come down and they all lock in the evening. Um the windshield washer squisher and the oil and stuff again in a cabinet that comes down. So there's not a lot of I'm just going to say sloppy um stuff on site. Okay. It's all within under the canopy save the propane cage uh and within contained spaces. Okay. And again those details are in the information that Harold provided to you. Um the parking that would be required by your code for this site is 645 spaces for the retail

uses. Um and then um we are providing 640 sorry 673 spaces. So slightly over but not significantly over where you'd be thinking oh it's going to be a sea of asphalt and we can talk about that in a minute. Um there are also nine spaces that are provided per your code for the fuel center. They're located up there at the northernmost part of the of the fuel center. Um, we do exceed the number of required ADA spaces for the store and they are located, you see them there in the white. They're kind of in the center of the store. Um, so that they have easy access and so forth to the main entryway to the store. Um, access, as I mentioned briefly before, is through an existing curb cut to the south on uh, West Leon Lane that ex exists today is going to be widened to accommodate additional traffic. And then also a curb cut on South Roy Wilson Way um which is going to align with an existing curb cut as you can see there. So there's no offset intersections or anything like that. It's all all been aligned and and vetted by the the traffic engineers at Kroger. Some of the features though I do want to point out to the to the planning commission. Um there will be uh on the west side of the building um a pharmacy pickup window which is great if it's snowy and that's all you're going in for. you got sick kids and you don't want to plug them into the store. Um, that would have over five stacking spaces and it also will have an escape lane. So, if you get in and and it's six o'clock and it's January and everybody's got the flu and you don't want to wait, you want to go into the store, you're not trapped, you're going to go around there and come back and park. Um, it also on the southern part here down at this end will have uh the um online shopping um pickup area. So that is if you care to order your groceries online and you get a time um to pick them up, you would go there into one of those spaces, follow the instructions on the sign and then an associate will come out of a a door that you see that little

notch on the building. Associate will come out of there. The order will be prepared and it will be either in an ambient uh a cold or frozen locker and that food's delivered. It's put directly into your trunk and and payment is made. So, um, so that's a nice feature. Um, particularly if you're working mom with little kids and that kind of thing. So, both of those features then are on the west side of the building. Um, and there's 15 of those pickup spaces. I don't think I mentioned that. Um, loading is to the south, the rear of the building. There would be um, three uh, loading docks there to the south. And then also, the Kroger store itself doesn't have dumpsters. It has a compactor that handles all the waste for the store. And that is internal. that is just south of the three loading spaces and we'll talk about how that's going to be screened in a moment because that was um uh Hancock Health wanted to make sure that that was not going to be visible so we say from um uh West Leon Lane. So I'll talk about that when I get to the landscaping if that's okay. But anyway, that's where that's located. So speaking of landscaping, um what you're seeing here today uh actually exceeds the requirements uh of your code and of the uh UDP. Um it's all the way around see the extensive landscaping around the fuel center because that was another concern. They didn't want the fuel center to be the the main feature of this development. Um so there is a lot of landscaping there. To the south of the store, as I was talking about, there are loading docks there. Um, and they will have a burm, an earththen berm. And I think the engineers are still trying to work out exactly how how tall, whether it's two, three or two feet or three feet, but somewhere in that area.

And where where will that burm be? Okay. That is going to be overong here. Okay. Okay. And then on top of that, then there's going to be a mixture of deciduous and non-deuous trees and shrubs. So that will be heavily screened. I do have a question. in the area around the fuel center uh there in the east side of the fuel center that wraps around. Is that flat or is that birmed up as well? Uh no, that is that is shown as I won't say it's flat, but it's not there's no burm in that location. Okay.

There we go. All right. Now I get too many things to handle here. Okay. Um so, uh as I mentioned, um and uh there is going to be a mixture of plant material, both deciduous and non-deciduous in terms of trees. And we did submit a a plant listing, but it's things like maple, oak, pine, cedar. Um, and then deciduous, a variety of deciduous and non-deciduous shrubs. The there's perimeter landscaping as you can see going all the way around the site and around and then and around the parking area. And then within the dua, um, there are uh, place. [Laughter] It's not funny to be this short, isn't it? Anyway, there are islands at the ends of every parking row as required. The only exception to that that we have requested is these two ones that have the ADA spaces because it makes it difficult for folks that are in a wheelchair or using one of the mobile uh shopping carts, you know, with the scooter on it. Uh it makes it difficult for them. So, we are asking for for an exception to that. Um and then uh interior of the UA islands are as required. Each one of those would have at least two trees and some shrubs in them. So, it's it's going to be a pretty well planted um parking lot. And so, that kind of gets back to my comment about not being a sea of asphalt. I mean, if you look at that, you can see that there's trees around it, there's trees inside of it, and there's the trees at the end of each parking route. Okay. Lighting. Uh there are requirements within this development to for the use of decorative poles and decorative light fish. And what Kroger is going to be doing is they are going to be locating those around the perimeter of the site to be consistent with the rest of the development. And they will be using LED down directional lights within the parking field itself that are going to be lower than Kroger's t typical fixtures are. Um but it gives a more even lighting uh with the store. You know, you got a lot of moms that are coming out pushing a bass cart, maybe a

three-year-old in Tobaside at, you know, it's dark in in December at five o'clock, six o'clock. You want to make sure that that parking lot is well lit and that people feel safe and comfortable going in and out. Um, so so that's the lighting for the for the site. Um, store design. Um, it does include a variety of materials. You do have some elevations in your packet. Um they are using a a variety of shades of gray and cream and so forth. Very very neutral, very earthtonish kind of side colors. Um the some of the building materials include things like inly colored CMU and that's important that it is that and not just regular CMU painted because the integral color doesn't you don't paint it. It doesn't peel. It doesn't you know it's it's like permanent material kind of thing. Permanent color. um and some leaf bricks, some some metal accents and so forth. Enough to kind of make it a new fresh design, but not so over the top that you're going to say, "Oh, yeah, that's that store that that they did in in 2025." Yeah. Right. Okay. Next. So, um and again, as I mentioned, various shades of gray, green, slate, and so forth. Mentioned that the roof mechanicals for both the store and the the kiosk will be screened from view. Um, and I guess finally, I would just like to make the commission aware of the fact that what you're seeing up here is about a $35 million investment of Kroger into your community. And it is the creation of about 300 associate positions, full-time and part-time, which again represents a significant commitment from Kroger to your town. So, um, that's my deal. Um, I'm happy to try to answer questions and if I can't, I've got folks who can. I got one on the lighting. So on page 40, exhibit J of the newest handout, um it shows two types of lights, lights A and lights B, um I I drove the area

because this was interesting to me. And I think the standard that was set by the the health park already is very similar to light type B. And it seems like those are being used around the perimeter of the area, but in the new area or the I mean from the line over the new purchase area, it's all light type pay. Um I think one of my comments is I would prefer to see it be consistent with the standard that was set previously to carry that through that whole area. So I think maybe the exhibit should show um that the I understand that the thought was the type E looks again which are used extensively throughout the development would be in this entire area and would go around the perimeter of the site and that would include in across the the north property line there and I think this exhibit is not showing that carried out. It's showing it as all type A. Um the type A are um Oh, okay. So, I'm sorry. See my my If you turn If you turn to the very next page, exhibit J, you can see where these are. That was the intent was to do so, but it is a little confusing with the other.

Yeah. I mean, both of them, I think, depict it well. I I guess my concern is you'd have a a very nice decorative look around the outside, but then inside it wouldn't carry through.

Yeah. But again, you know, you've got a race. Um so to your point, this so what we're presenting before you today is just the amendment for C. And so this exhibit only detailed out that where the be lights would be on exhibit C. If you look super closely, there are um additional bee lights along the um back side of the Kroger store and along the western edge. So all of the lights along the south line, there's one, two, three, four additional bead lights along the south side of the proc. And then there's lights along the west of the so it is like referring to it is all along the perimeter. Uh but because today's discussion was just about to be we only called out for the area C which may have been M.

So looking at page 40 at the top it says type A lights. There's one arrow. So how many type A lights are proposed? And you know I see the boundary for area C, but it's probably as good a time as not as any to ask even as it carries over to the west on the area that needs to be added. How can you tell me how many type A lights are proposed? Can you tell them how many? Sorry, I did not count the light fixtures.

Well, Ellen's counting those. So, I do need to correct one thing. Somebody had asked um would there be a burn around the fuel center? There is a burn around the fuel center. I'm sorry. I misspoke. And when you say burn, meaning a mountain earth and mount. Yeah. With the landscaping on top. So, I'm sorry. 16. So, there's 16 type A's. an engineer can count to 60. So I count nine B's. There's eight 18. So basically B goes around the the exterior, right? Excluding the north section from C to the new area, right? So all of the A's are where the trees are in the the island.

The A's are within the parking area where it needs to be more brighter illuminated because of the activities, right? And then to keep the feel of the development, those fixtures are intended to be around. Okay. Well, I I would say I actually went to two of your Fisher stores and I also went to the store in Milville and I'm kind of like Chad, you know, I I seen all the lights on the inside, but I did see that all the developments, all the boulevards and everything were decorative lights. So, I see the theme that you guys kept that particular light. I just wasn't sure why. the decorative lights. They are very nice

and that's why the most visual impact. Well, and while we're talking about the lights, I can share that not even in this development, the fact that the hospital set the bar so high that subsequent developments offsite like Taco Bell Starbucks, Jify Loop, all have the decorative lights along the roadway. So, you know, at least there's a standard that's been set. So,

yeah. And I think one of the the questions was um changing the height, which I don't think is a is a bigger issue. I think the the look, you know what I mean, is is kind of what we're going to a lot of what we just went through a planning or um gosh, comprehensive plan, comprehensive plan, and a lot of a lot of the feedback we got was keeping the small town feel, keeping that that approach. And I think this is a small touch that I think would bode well is to try to keep that small town approach.

And the the perimeter lights again are shorter. the lights that would be in the in the parking area are a little taller, but the the trade-off you get is if you go shorter in there, you're going to have a lot more of them and you're going to have a lot more hot spots, okay? Where the light's going to come down and it's going to start to eat into how many trees to meet the parking requirements. We're going to start to lose, you know, islands with landscaping. So, you know, it's kind of a balancing act, guys. Yeah, the the height I think doesn't bother me. understanding that they're going to be higher. I would just prefer to see them as the consistent to what's already in the the park, other developments that have been in the area there. Just one question. Aren't the decorative ones are usually black? Yes.

And then the ones that are in the parking lot are normally silver. Usually kind of Yeah. They blend in a little bit better than like the black ones would stick out like a thumb, I think. But it's a nice looking thumb. No, they're not. Yeah. Anybody have any other questions? I can try the answer or somebody here answer.

Um I I had a question about the the front elevation. I mean if we could talk about the the front elevation of the store a little bit. Um I noticed in uh let me get to it. Maybe page 30.

Page 16. Yeah, that's that's more where I was going. That um Yeah, that that area that wraps around kind of in a upside down C-shape around the store. I believe it was referred to as EF1. Um it's it was uh kind of call it out to be a downy gray. Um I noticed I found some

and I and I know they're not exactly the same, but I found some images of some of your other stores like your Brownsburg and your Fiser store and I noticed they had a it was like a wood appearance. It was called a um longboard V something and it was painted like a cherry cherry wood. Is would it be possible to to do something like that instead of gray?

And and I also noticed that this the Brownsburg store had a a small canopy on the front. So this is the Fisher store. [Music] Oh, so that's why we chang. Okay. And the other question was the CMU that's that's basically concrete block, right?

Is it do you is it possible to get that in brick instead of block? I mean, would would anybody think brick would would look a little nicer than block or Oh, yeah. Just a thought. The only thing you want to be careful over and I think you would agree is on a building this long and a building this big that's a lot of brick. It is kind of hard to do. I mean, I've had other communities and and come back and take one and they're like, "Oh, no. That's really not what we meant. It wasn't what we thought we were going to get. So, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I I just the the gray is just it's very very plain. Just just a thought. I I know that there's been blue done in other stores and we're not really a blue but I love blue. I mean, it's perfect. I understand that. Any other questions, comments, concerns? Now is the time store.

I have I have one question. um on the request of I think it was the number nine 5.6 was a section 5.6E about loading birth docks and delivery service space standards and it said amended by deleting and replacing it with the following. No off streetet loading dock shall be located on the front facade of any building other than if the shopping center is developed on area C and when in compliance with all other provisions of this ordinance. So are they are you saying that if there are other shops that there would be front loading do areas? Well, the the re I mean the store is kind of unusual because it has multiple front yards, you know, because of the shape of the property, right? And so the south the rear elevation of the store where because of the the you know handling delivery of food and the handling and packaging and to the to the store itself has to be done toward toward the back. That's their quote back of house area, right? So that loading dock has to be to the rear. That is technically a front yard from a zoning standpoint, right? And so that uh issue, we're asking that that be amended. But as I explained before um to properly screen that so you're not going to see that from the from the roadway. There's going to be an earthn mound and then landscaping on top of that.

So there won't be trucks pulling up to the front of the Kroger store and unloading through the front door. No.

Okay. a great time explaining that. But under any other condition, if this was not actually this one competitor, they would have to come back in here and get another plan. So if there was a retail store by itself or an office store that had a loading dock along Leon Lane, that would be in violation with our rules and it would not be That's why we have to specifically address this because it has multiple front yards and you're not allowed in the front. So unless if an office store would ask to have a dock on right now would not be permitted. So we have to bring that to you as an amendment if we as a hospital would allow but because of the commitments they're making we are writing that in the UDP amendment to be allowable under those conditions

and then I would like to ask just to make sure because again the bar was set so high with the wellness center and when you come out of the wellness center and you look to the south or if you're in a vehicle and you're traveling south off of US52, you showed two different landscaping areas around the fuel center and I'm I'm trying to find the the page I apologize. I page 20

page 20. So now what we have our page 20 it's just shown in hatched areas but want to make sure that if if you're either walking in the parking lot at the wellness center or driving on the roadway the landscaping is going to be sufficient whether it's mounded or the density that along that roadway you're not going to see the pumps or the trash cans uh the outdoor vent bending items and that's again because it's not a 3D and there isn't a picture from the roadway looking to see what the landscaping would look like. I I just want to ask is there any assurance that there will be sufficient screening so that you're not seeing the fuel center unobstructed.

So I think if you're going south I would say off of South Wilson Way or coming out of the facility um you're going to see a mixture of deciduous and nonuous and it'll be mounded and then all of this around here is is burned and also okay so um well people will know it's there I know

and you know the last thing the assoc And so because majority of trips in the center, but in any majority of the field trip

and Miss McBride, this this might not be a fair question, but I'll ask it anyways. So, if you have your fuel points, do you have any guess what your price per gallon would be in contrast to the get-go that's nearby? Will you be similar, cheaper? You're making me want to go. Well, see, right now it's the only place to go.

Well, no, it isn't. Speedway is another place. Well, I think everybody knows gas is a very competitive business, right? And so the 3% you get off automatically typically in my experience that lowers it with the regular prices for everybody else. So, okay. Again, trying to get you to quote a gas price might not be a fair question for these guys for like 35. I am not anybody else. My favorite picture of a gas price as $185 a gallon. I just want to hold you to it.

No, I have had to do that when it was like 64 and then they Oh, that's great. You're going to sell her gas at 64. No, it's only seriously any other

Well, these this these 14 these 17 points that you put together, Bill. I know Harold addressed some of these, but um I don't know if we have time to go through all 17 of those. Make sure we get I'd say anything you have a question on. Okay. So, um let's just go through the list here, which what was covered by Harold and what wasn't and let's talk through through these line items. All right. So, the new concept plan, we talked about that. Number two is districts are relettered here to talk through that. That's that's moving E to C

because you didn't have a C. Didn't have an E. Certain permitted uses are deleted. Yep. He went through that. Okay. And then certain are added, right? And so that was the one where we had had 50,000 square feet prior in 2020. And one of the changes here that you're proposing is the 99

well plus 30. And and I guess this also is as good a time procedurally to to mention I'm used I'm like Carol I'm used to most jurisdictions call it a pud planned unit development and in a pud a developer comes in and says here's our master plan but that's all conceptual of the entire let's say it's 100 acres they know what's going to go on 20 of the acres 80 of the acres there's a hypothetical guess and that's exactly what the original UDP did. It's in concept here's an overall project and with the first amendment today's the second amendment each time reality doesn't match with 100% what was guessed then you come in and you amend it. So it is very common for your PUD or UDP to be amended over time because once you have an actual user then you see how it fits and where it doesn't and and that's where you know like because I made a summary sheet and that's where like number three and number four number five number six number seven um you know all of those are the natural product of now we're looking at a fuel center and a fuel center was never contemplated.

Right? So I think there's a lot of adjustments for a fuel center and as long as it's properly landscaped and you get your Kroger points and you got your free six-ack of Pepsi minis with a rotisserie chicken then life is good. This is the anomaly you will never see. He drinks either does not care. Does not care. But the three pack of minis is a hit. So, but so are there any other items on the list or should we just go through all of them?

Well, I mean I think the list states all the changes that they're they're basically asking for. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the I just want to make sure we're covering this. The light pole height Chad brought up, uh, landscaping was brought up, um, fuel center, etc. So, well, and earlier I heard Chad discussing the possibility of changing the type A lights to type B lights. And is that something that you feel strongly about, Chad? Yeah, I think I think because it's already there, right, in the standards set,

I I think that being carried over, I get, you know, I counted them, too, cuz I'm allowed to count. I took my shoes off, but there's 16A and 18B. But I guess to me, I I would like to see it just carry the same lighting across that was set in the original standard. I don't really understand the change of it. The height makes total sense, right? You got to elevate it for those areas to get the the coverage that you need. Um, but the look of the the U Hancock Health Wellness Center, I think, is something that we want to continue to preserve, and that's a standard that that I would like to see through that area. My only issue would be the amount. I agree with you on on the consistency and liking the other lights better, but my concern is safety in the parking lot when it's Are they Are they going to be the same height?

We had not even looked at incorporating the decorative fixtures within the parking lot. No, I mean I mean the other the um A and B, the ones that are planned at this point, the lights, they would not be the same height. They'll kind of match up. Now,

if I get in check, the uh the program folks have been fabulous. One of the commitments that we've made to the town is Ank Health wants this to be upscale. We want to be in front of you with a project that we're satisfied with and develop that we're satisfied with. The program folks have done that. Although there's still room for us to approve and negotiate and look at plans. I talked to Mr. Ramsey today. This has got a lot to go. This has a long process and we're going to be back in front of you for various reasons and things

and I can tell you that it's not our desire to be against anything that the town may not want to be in that position. We'll work hard with Kroger to make sure that what we present to you in the finality is is where everybody's happy with. Um we have to review final plans and in the ordinance. Mr. Ramsey was agreeable today to add that the controlling developer will have final approval. Um and every process, every permit that comes through Mr. province that's has to have an ACC approval of our architecture full committee which is made up of about four different people. Uh so uh we're here to partner with you a long long time. Uh Grover's here to make that same commitment and I would hope there's a level of trust that uh we have with each other that what's going to be put forward and you have our commitment that it's going to be done. There's a lot to this. We don't expect you to look at every detail tonight. It's more or less it's more than a concept, but it's the rules. And we've done our best to give you as much as we can give you this time. And Cro spending thousands of dollars already committed to the project and we'll find a way to make these questions go away with good answers.

Yeah. And I'll be blunt. I'm a direct communicator, so it's nothing. I think the town's excited. Most of the people I've talked to are extremely excited about the opportunity to bring the program here. So, I don't want anybody to take anything I'm saying negative. It's just trying to keep a standard, right? And and I think to your point, I think everybody here is committed to to working together to to make something like this happen and continue to grow our community the right way. And I could just make one additional correction on something I said. All those fixtures are the same. So, sorry. And yes, they are all the same. the decorative pictures on. Okay. Okay.

So, if the decorative ones are at the the highest elevation, which I think is 32 ft. So, is there any difference in the lighting between the decorative and the non-decorative? So the decorative William I'm sure can address that better than I can but somebody who ends up shopping at 10:00 at night on the way home I want the parking lot well I'm shopping cart whatever and I want that well lit fixtures no disrespect you have do a better job

well there's also And and this is a question of mine. Um different hours of operation as far as a wellness center at 6 or 7 in the morning depending on the time of year. It's going to be dark then and it could be open till 10 11 o'clock at night and it's most certainly dark for a portion of that and you know their peak hours tend to be when people get off work which in the winter it is so just my personal opinion I think we can work through the light issue definitely not willing to d it so

these are always go up just So, um, we will work hard as a team to present the the best product when it's all done. I'm sure everybody's going to be pleased with it. I

think so. Well, and seeing the changes that were made um you know that we hadn't seen before this evening talking about the controlling developer, I I certainly will say for the record that we defer a lot to the hospital's judgment. again knowing the investment, the quality, um, and I can only assume, just guessing that that wellness center is probably the most frequented wellness center that you have in your system. I hope that's the case. It does play well. It's getting better. So, that's what we want. So, u

I will say just the the document the ordinance that was prepared by a hotel I suspect and adopted by the city is more stringent than most codes that I work when I work all the country. So I'm just saying that's that's a type very detail when I first looked at

but we appreciate the quality. Yeah. So absolutely.

I just want to add on what Chad said. I think that um I think Kroger's is a certainly has a really good reputation. I grew up out southeastern Indiana. uh town called Aurora, very close to Cincinnati. So, I grew up going to Kroger's grocery stores and the and the community involvement there uh support uh is goes a long way. So, uh Kroger certainly has a has a history of a of a quality corporation. So, I appreciate you guys being here. Um one of the things that I'm concerned about though is uh and I know you three that have been on the town council have been closer than this to this than I have and maybe others. Um I'm just a little concerned about the process here. We started uh we got to know about this meeting last Tuesday. Um I was out of town this past weekend on a conference. I didn't get back till um late Monday night. I didn't really have a time to to review this like I typically do. Um and then uh we got some red lines tonight. Um I I guess I would feel better if we consider the continuence um for for for two weeks. Uh that would give us time to look at the Kroger up on in Fisers and

that the September 3rd is already the RDC takes 30 minutes. Yeah. And so we do 6 6:30 RDC at 6:30 at 6. Yeah. Is that so we go at 6:30? How long do we have to advertise? Yeah, we'd need to advertise a public hearing again. Um I believe that's 20 days in this instance. It was, you know, it's actually 10 days. It's 10 days. Continue the public hearing. We have to reappver.

Uh yeah, because that we'd have to give the opportunity another uh progress. Well, Let's kind of take it one step at a time. Um Chris, if you want to make a motion to continue the matter, we'll see what the will of the plan commission is. Um Okay. I I make a motion that we continue this uh for 14 days.

Okay. The motion fails for the lack of a second. So, are there any other motions? And and

well, on that note, I think that it might because it it did seem that it was moving fast to me when it all came about, but I think a lot of that is because Hancock had a lot of background, had their ducks in a row. Kroger's large enough that they had a lot going on. I'm sure there was a lot before it was ever brought to us. And some of the things that we've had over the past few years have not been well coordinated and have dragged on four times longer than they needed to. Sure. So, this does seem fast.

Okay. So, we're going to go ahead and consider the matter, but at this point, uh, we need to open the floor. So, if there's anybody in the audience that would like to make any comments, questions, concerns, come up to the podium, give us your name and your address, and share with us anything you'd like to share.

Come on up to the podium and give us your name and address and anything you'd like to share. Uh, my name is Trevor Lloy Jones. Uh I have uh property in the area and several parcels and properties and I am a little bit surprised about the uh rush to get this done with very little notification. Uh I'm no green I'm not sure if the hospital has received all their green cards and if that even counts if um do they have all the green cards received from the neighbors that are obligated to be notified. There's I certainly would have liked to have one of these packets that all you guys have because I represent many properties that are going to be influenced by this and I don't have what you referring to as page 71 14 whatever. I not seen it. I'm not sure if anybody else has seen it but u certainly you've seen it. U so I think it's a m if if there was a continuence for two weeks they would be given opportunity for actual people to look at what you all are looking at and be able to have some sensible input because right now I can't have any sensible input into the project. I am hoping that this project won't be done approved by the planning commission and then go to uh

uh permitting process and there's nobody in the town that's been hired as an engineer to behave to look after the town's ordinances to look at those plans and And the plans don't just go to somebody who says, "Okay, I'll stamp them." We want or should have an qualified engineer to review these plans that have been submitted by the hospital. and the engineer is looking at the ordinances of the town and making sure that the ordinances are being followed and we don't get a permit like we have. We've had a permit issued to an apartment complex and the plans, as far as I know, have not been looked at by an engineer paid or or representing the town's ordinances to make sure those plans meet are adequate to get a permit. It's not nice when we find out that a project builds its entire profit. It builds its entire 60 apartments and it finds out that it doesn't have an entrance that has been approved by INDOT.

Sir, sir, if I may, we're getting a little off topic here. You are time limited and we are 25 minutes over. on this meeting. The town council meeting is up next. So, if I can ask you to wrap it up, please. I just want the town to hire a competent, qualified engineer to review any plans by anybody else to make sure they follow the standards before a permit is granted.

Billy, no. Thank you, sir. Um, this is my shameless plug for our town website. it has the agenda for all these meetings on there. So, that packet that that we're referencing is there, the newest one with the red lines we got. So, that's why you probably saw me trying to go through two different ones. Um, but that information is that. Okay. Any other public comments? If you would, sir, sir, if you would come on up to the podium, give us your name and address, please. This is a I just missed it by not coming in, but the the actual location of the Kroger store. Your your name and address, please. My name and address, please. Thomas Smith,

3589, South Meadows Lane. Go right ahead. Thank you. Uh, the hospital is it in the right hand corner? Yes, sir. So, therefore, Kroger's is going to sit on a side road or in the back of that hospital complex area. Yes. Yes, sir. Okay, that's all I needed. Oh, no problem. So, I had and thank you for asking. Uh, any other questions or comments from the public? Okay. Um, in order to open the matter for discussion amongst the plan commission, we need a motion.

I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 082025. And that's on first reading. On first reading. I'll second that motion. So it's been moved and seconded. Now it's open for discussion. Yes. Sorry. I'm I'm sorry. What? I don't think we have two readings of the plan. That's That's correct. This is just This is just for approval for consideration for the town council. Thanks for I'm just so used to two approvals. Well, I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 082025 for recommendation to the council.

I'll second that motion. So, now the matter is open. Is there any other questions, comments, concerns?

There's a couple things that uh kind of not necessarily with the nuts and bolts uh that we didn't talk about. Uh one of the concerns I have is what impact does this have on needlers? Obviously, um and certainly um with this large of a of a grocery store coming in next door or nearby, it's 4x the size. You know, it's a credible scenario that needless goes out of business. So, I think we as a plan commission need to consider what happens to that building um and and and discuss that. That was another reason I was considering the continuence because that's something that you know novice had talked about.

Any other questions or comments, concerns? There might be concerns about needlers. I think it will make this will make them be possibly more competitive. I also think if they have they have been booming just booming and I know that there will always be people who don't want to go to a big store be just because of the size they don't want to walk that that much and if needlers they still have the option to enlarge if if they're committed to to being here. I know right now it's it's been packed. It's taken forever lately to get through there. So, um I think with as many neighborhoods county has thrown at us lately. Um

yeah, it'll certainly bring traffic here. That's another consideration, too, is the additional traffic. Well, and and I would like to make a comment that the fact that Kroger is working closely with the hospital and that there's a partnership there um lends a lot of credibility to the project because there's a very good partnership between the hospital and the town. Uh there's built-in credibility from the very beginning. Everything that the hospital has ever said that they were going to do, they did. and we certainly appreciate that with the language that was tweaked in here about the controlling developer. I have every assurance that the concerns that were made this evening will be worked out. It's not feasible or reasonable to expect for this evening every single detail is going to have been ironed out and that's that's not the case. But the concept of having a supermarket, the fuel center, the related uses, what that brings to our community, in my opinion, is fantastic. So, I just wanted to state that on.

Yeah, I I appreciate uh the hospital. I appreciate Kroger Kroger's willingness to come here. Everybody that I've talked to in the community is excited about it. uh working with the hospital, the town, working with the hospital on this projects gives us multiple layers of of uh or multiple stages. It kind of puts up some guard rails because they've already had to go through so much of a process working with the hospital. This just narrows down the process for us in my opinion and makes it a little bit easier because the standards were already set. So, to me, it's a no-brainer. And and I I'd love to give the the town more options. Um, you know, we're growing. It is what it is. Uh, some people may not like it. Everybody I've talked to has embraced it. So, I look forward to this project. Yeah. I also want to say that the hospital herald. So yeah, certainly the standards you guys already have makes uh is definitely is a positive thing to this whole process. So I want to echo that too. Um I think if you look at, you know, my opinion, this is how I'm looking at it. And I've heard you guys say everybody you talk to says you're in favor of it. I did a little survey of myself last night. Knocked on a couple couple people's doors and I talked to six of my uh seven of my neighbors. uh two were for it, three were against, and two were neutral. So, I think there's a there's a group of folks that that and I've seen this on social media as well, kind of a split.

So, um it's going to be obviously that's not uh um it's going to be

that's one another reason I was wanting a continuance because I want to have more time to to talk to folks and see if that was an aberration or not. Uh I think also the original um UDP was for 50,000 square ft. I think the thought process at that time was to be a small town to help with that small town community, that small town charm that shows up seven different times in our our comprehensive plan. So um I would be much more in favor of this if it was twice as big as needers rather than four times as big and likely put Neers out of business. So that's that's why we'll not be voting for the motion that's going to happen. Any other comments?

I had one question and this is this goes out to to the Kroger folks. um whether or not it would even be feasible or you would still consider if if it if you were asked to downsize as far as not the size of the store or possibly not as many pumps. Is this a set um layout plan square footage? This is this is the prototype marketplace that we are building. This is um what we the research that we've done has all been based around

business is business. Yeah. And is it it based on the um our population and the neighborhoods that have just cropped up so quickly lately in this area?

This is kind of our business strategy at this point. This is kind of the board that we But when looks at an area, they look at not only the existing housing unit, but they will go in and say, "Oh, okay. There's so many apartments that are going to start construction or whatever, three levels, and there's a subdivision over here that's going to approve for 100 bots or whatever it is, right? So they look at the growth uh not only residential growth but also the retail growth uh and other employment things that are growing in the region. So based on that, that is how they

is it appropriate for me to add just 30 seconds. Um, we have not brought to you a smaller store. I won't mention the name. It doesn't matter. That was twice the size of Neighbors that you would have liked. We didn't like that process and that partnership that we have. We're we're neighbors. We're in this community forever, right? We're we're part of the community and we love the community. We don't bring you everything that comes to us because we nixed it already. You wouldn't have liked it. Just trust. It was twice the size of me. Um, was it Kroger or was somebody else? It was not Kroger. It was somebody else.

I'll do I did a little survey in my home and I think it's okay to say the negotiations we've done had a larger store on this one. I talked to my wife about where we landed. She was very disappointed that it was not the 123,000 people. So I got in trouble for that. Right. So there's there's there's two scales of this. Sure.

Uh so I I I I think that we're getting a great product, a great result. Are there some things we're going to work on to make it even better? They don't want a moving target and having been in the development world, anybody's in there, you got to appreciate that they have some more due diligence time, but our goal is to end that moving target for them. Set the standard so that you're happy with us and we can continue a great partnership. And I have nothing but help us confidence that we can get that done because we wouldn't be here if we didn't feel we can work with that team and we have plenty of chances that that we would have figured that out. So, I appreciate everybody's comments. I think this is great. We need to have this kind of input. Um, but I think what we're getting here is is quality of a great level and it's going to do nothing but promote the town and it's going to continue to allow allow us to raise the bar like we promised you. And that's already seen. I don't know how it got out. The rumor did we not the sheriff. It must have been the broker the sheriff. I don't

always blame a broken. Our phones are broken. Our inquiries have increased. Yeah. Since that. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, comments, concerns? You know, we're we're a family that shops at Needlers a lot, but we also um shop other places because price, the amount of items and things that we want. Um, so I'm excited to be able to keep our money here, um, if this project goes through um, so that we can do all of our shopping here and save time, save gas, get fuel points, um, all those things. Um, I think our town is growing and, um, if everybody shop at needlers, I don't, they couldn't support the whole town.

Um, and with the growth, we're going to need something something bigger. I'm also excited for the job opportunities. So, absolutely. Any other questions, comments? All those in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying I. I. I. Oppose. Nay. Motion carries. [Music]

We know need to journ still. Uh I will make a motion to adjurnn. I'll second. It's been moved and second. All those in favor of adjourning, please say I. We are ajourned. Thank