Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call this 11/10/2025 planning commission meeting to order. Roll call, please.

Del Reigno? Here. Smith? Here. Van Dyke? Here. Jones? Here. Falcone? Here. We do have a quorum.

And thank you. I'll go ahead and do our recording.

The Westlake Planning Commission complies with the Ohio Sunshine Law. The procedure. The meeting will be called to order, and the clerk will take the roll call. The commission will then approve the minutes of the previous meeting. The council representative will then present the council report. Commission business. When your project is called, please come to the podium. Place your drawings on the document table, and they will then be projected on the screen for all to see. The applicant or representative making the request state their name and address for the record. Please make a short presentation speaking into the microphone.

Everyone making comments or presentation to the commission must speak into the microphone. City staff will give a staff report on Friday. You will then hear from the audience. Any member of the audience that wishes to speak will have to speak into the microphone and state their name and address for the record. We ask that audience members speak one at a time after giving their name and address. This is for the purpose of the minutes for the meeting. Please speak clearly. The applicant will respond to public comments. Again, we ask that people speak one at a time. Planning Commission members will have an opportunity to make comments and ask any questions that they may have. The Commission will then take action.

Great. Thank you. Guess we have approval of minutes from ten 06:25. Can I get a motion for that?

So moved. Second.

Roll call, please.

Smith? Yes. Del Ragneaux? Yes. Van Dyke? Yes. Belcone?

Yes. Who'd I forget? Jones? Yeah. Motion carries.

And then, approval of the minutes from 10:21 twenty five?

Yeah. Motion to approve the minutes from 10:21 twenty five.

Second.

Roll call, please.

Van Dyke.

Abstain. Jones? Yes.

Belcone? Yes. Del Reigno?

Yes.

Smith? Abstain.

Thank you very much. Motion carries. Before we say the council report, congratulations to councilman Van Dyke for reelection, and congratulations congratulations to to mister mister Del Del Reigno Reigno for for election on the council. Pretty exciting.

Thank you.

For my fellow planning commissioners, first of all, I guess, report. Councilman Van Dyke, anything?

Nothing to report.

Okay. Thank you. And then we'll move right into business. First item on the agenda is Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints development plan for the pavilion.

Yes. The purpose is to construct an open air pavilion with related slight improvements. It's a 30 by sixty eighteen hundred square foot pavilion. It's going to be on a concrete pad of equal dimensions. It's just under 14 feet in height.

Powder coated steel tube columns, roof assembly, Fascia, and all the details do meet the code requirements, building code requirements. In response to the feedback from the August Planning Commission meeting, it was rotated 90 degrees to increase separation from adjacent residences to the north. Do have some updates. So the original buffering plan that had Arborvitae just around the structure. I've got another slide that shows that a little bit better.

That's been replaced in place of that. And this is based on comments that were received at the last meeting where this was discussed. So instead a new six foot high fence, privacy fence along the rear yards west north and east property lines and that will replace existing chain link fence in that location. It does terminate at the edge of the parking lot. So it's just that lawn area.

The church would prefer vinyl fence because of its low maintenance and durability. They selected a natural wood grain finish to resemble traditional wood. Alternatively board on board wood fencing is included as for reference as a detail should the vinyl option not receive approval. And per code either one is suitable. So then the existing chain blank fence would remain in place from the parking lot southward where it currently is.

Then to satisfy the buffer code requirements, which is a six foot high fence and tree planted every 30 feet, they are proposing 17 Norway spruce trees 30 feet apart. And at maturity this type of tree does receive achieve a spread of 25 to 30 feet. So would provide the summer and winter opacity requirements. Now there was a comment I think one of the residents commented about had some questions about accessory structures and if a property can have more than one. And per twelve eleven point zero four of the zoning code does permit utility building and also allows for additional accessory structures including a detached garage and a pool house.

And then twelve eleven point zero four zero that specifically allows for a pavilion as a separate accessory structure beyond those listed in K above. So therefore under the provisions of the code it's permissible under the right circumstances for a property to have up to four accessory structures. A utility building detached garage pool house and a pavilion. So there's no issues with that in terms of zoning with having more than one accessory structure. These items here haven't changed since they were last discussed.

The same hardscaping just a little bit of sidewalk in the concrete underneath the proposed structure. A area for an outdoor drinking fountain. Restriping a couple parking spaces. Utilities necessary to provide water and electrical to the pavilion. Limited grading just around the location of the proposed structure and slab.

And dumpster enclosure that's been submitted. It does meet all applicable code requirements. And this has been discussed. So a couple of years ago there was a proposed 1,200 square foot pavilion that has expired so it's no longer germane. So this was the September submittal August and September so we've got a lot of different plans that have come in over the different months.

So I was trying to organize them somehow. August and September. Some of these just weren't submitted again, but they still are relevant. So the actual design of the structure hasn't changed since August or September. It's really a lot of the site design that has.

Pass that. That's why so many of those are the same. This is the September, the dumpster enclosure, which does meet the code requirements. It's repeated on the October submittal had it repeated. But what's new on this are at the bottom where you see the fence details.

This is the September submittal that actually the idea then was to plant Arborvitae right around the structure itself just to make it disappear just in that location. So that's been changed with new idea of actually just fencing the entire property line across the back. Not going completely down the sides but definitely that lawn area would have fencing all the way around it and then planting the spruce trees that I mentioned earlier. So when we look at the box score there's a modification still for the size. 600 square feet is all the code has in it for pavilions.

It's in twelve eleven. Chapter twelve eleven is the residential code. And that's why it's 600 square feet. And there's no separate code in that chapter relative to places of worship for pavilions. Lighting. We have a standard condition recommended for lighting. Just that it be used, only be turned on when necessary. So if you are able to make a recommendation tonight and just for those of you in the audience the Planning Commission is a recommending body in terms of development plans. It's

Board Board Board of of

of

to as our standard condition. So this gets tacked on to nearly everything that gets approved with a development plan. It references the staff report and approval of the final plans for the building and engineering departments as well. And kicks it back to the Planning Commission if there's anything radically that changes when they actually go to construction. Thank you.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Riddell. Would the applicant please come forward? Thank you.

Welcome.

Good evening, madam chair. My name is Tony Vicante. I am a partner at the law firm of Tucker Ellis. I'm here on behalf of the applicant, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Appreciate your time this evening. I know you have a full agenda, so I'll try and be quick. But I'm a lawyer, so that's hard to do.

I'll just get your address

my best. 950 Main Avenue, Suite 1100, Cleveland, Ohio.

Thank you.

Appreciate the feedback that this commission's given and members of the community have given. As you can tell, we've worked with our plan here to make modifications to address those concerns. And we believed, you know, we've done everything that we can to address those concerns. Here with me is our facilities manager, Mr. Gordon Jeffrey, also, Bishop Jensen with the church, and Max Patton, who is our engineer who prepared the site plan in case there are any questions.

This is a place of worship. It's a permitted use. This pavilion, as this commission's probably aware, is not an atypical extension of that use, or I shouldn't say extension, but modification. What we're planning on doing and there have been similar pavilions, Saint Bernadette's, I believe, and Prince of Peace Church had a much larger one approved previously, and basically reflects the ongoing changing dynamics of denomination. So a lot of outdoor activities, especially when the weather is nice.

What we can say here is that this is not going to be used commercially any way, shape, or form. It's only gonna serve members of the existing congregation for activities like bible studies, youth programs, knitting clubs, fruit food drives, again, serving the existing congregation, which you can do right now as a permitted use in the yard, but this makes it more convenient and accessible and actually improves the value of the property and the surrounding properties. As this commission's well aware, there are two different types of approvals here development plan approval, which there are four factors that you are to apply to determine whether the development plan is acceptable. And then there are eight factors for modifications to the square footage analysis. Here, going through those factors very quickly, you know, this is consistent with the spirit and intent of the zoning code, which is the benefit properties increase the values.

You know, we've added fencing, and we're open. We prefer the vinyl fencing, but either vinyl or wood's gonna be an upgrade, from the chain link fence that we currently have. We're not we're also preserving as many trees as possible. There may be a couple trees that the city arborist has identified that need to be taken down, but we're only talking about a couple. Our plan is to preserve all of them unless they have to be taken down.

We're adding 18 different evergreen trees along the periphery to sort of mitigate any concerns to the surrounding neighbors. But again, this is an extension of an already permitted use, which is for a place of, worship. We're upgrading the enclosure around the dumpster, to make it more aesthetically pleasing and harmonious, and also increasing property values in the area. This plan is consistent with the requirements of the code. The only issue, as this commission's aware, is we're limited to 600 square feet.

And unfortunately, that's designed, as Mr. Bedell indicated, for residential structures. Here, we have a four acre parcel used as a place of worship. So it's a slightly different type of use, and that's why we're requesting that modification to allow for an 1,800 square foot pavilion. Pavilion. It's not gonna be outdoor speakers, not gonna be alcohol served. The lights are directed downward. It's gonna be very limited activity serving the congregation as it exists today. Again, the modifications we've made protects surrounding residential character, the neighborhood, and we're just looking to upgrade our property. So I do have a, some binders if you care.

I did submit some information last week. I can with permission of the chair, I can circulate them, or I can just put them up. The letter? Pardon me?

Is that the letter, or there's more than the letter?

The letter, and there

are a

couple other exhibits. I can either

You can just send it down if you want. That's fine. Just one copy. And I'll

take brief.

Just in case There may be a copy at each end. It sounds like there's multiple reading material. Alright. There's six copies.

Most of it is interesting.

Thank you. You're welcome.

I'll just barely briefly I'm gonna step right over here Yep. To show you what we have.

So they'll need the camera turned on, though.

Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah. And I would say, if you can go through it quickly, because I believe we all got an email. I mean, is everything.

Got it. I will. Absolutely. Under tab a is the letter that you should have received just outlining all the relevant factors for plan approval approval and and how how we we satisfy satisfy those those factors. Factors. Tab b, deals with the meeting minutes where the previous Prince of Peace, pavilion, which is 4,000 square feet, was approved by this planning commission in addition to the staff report relating to that. Exhibit c, concerns, identifies some of the surrounding properties of the Prince Of Peace. And the reason I'm, pointing this out is there were some concerns indicating, hey. It's gonna impact property values. I did enclose the county's valuation.

Prince Of Peace was approved in 2023. The values were updated in 2025 in Cuyahoga County, and each one of these properties substantially increased, not decreased, with regards to property value as determined by count Cuyahoga County. And you can they're included in the materials. I won't go line by line. Exhibit d is the actual square footage of this pavilion, as it relates to the percent of rear yard.

It's only 4.67% of the rear yard that's gonna be utilized by this pavilion. I also wanna note that we exceed the setbacks, so there's more than adequate buffering and and wiggle room within the current existing area requirements. Exhibit c. Excuse me. This is just the deed.

I wanna get it on the record because the Cuyahoga County auditor has this, I think, at two acres. It's really a four acre lot, so there's some issue with that. Why is that relevant? Again, we're well within the building buildable area within the rear yard and the property itself. So I just wanna point that out that we're still well within the area requirements, despite the request for the 1,800, square foot modification. Appreciate the commission's attention to this. At this time, I'd like to briefly introduce mister Gordon Jeffrey, our facilities manager, just to provide you with a sense of how this is going to be used and what the mission of the church is. Gordon?

Thank you, madam chairman. My name is Gordon Jeffrey. I reside at 224 State Route 604 Polk, Ohio. I'm a full time employee of the church as a facility manager, which I've been doing for twenty five years, eighteen of those years in Ohio, in the Northern Ohio area. I'm responsible for 50 facilities owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

This facility was built in 1967 and the pavilion that we seek to build, my department, the Meeting House Facilities departments, we provide these pavilions just to make it more convenient for the members to hold the activities that they currently hold. No new activities come along with the pavilion. The pavilion is typically used for picnics, humanitarian aid projects, youth activities. And I understand this pavilion they have a once a year activity for the for the stake. Stake is similar to a Catholic diocese serves eight congregations throughout the Cleveland area.

So there there will be no increased use of the property with the pavilion. It will simply support existing activities. In my twenty five years, I've only had one issue that involved police at a pavilion. These pavilions are common at all of our stake centers. This particular pavilion was built in the back of the property behind the building totally out of sight from the street and so we worked with local police and the neighbors to increase lighting and and I generally meet with local police departments and invite them to use our properties for their lunch, for doing reports, to make their presence known which greatly decreases the chance of inopportune things happening at the pavilions.

Again, the mission of our church is fourfold. It's to live the gospel of Jesus Christ, care for those in need, invite all to receive the gospel, and unite families for eternity. And the pavilion will simply be used to continue this mission of the church. Thank you.

Great. Thank you And very

at this time, I'd like to introduce bishop Jensen.

Welcome.

Thank you. Yes. My name is bishop Eric Jensen. I reside at 4431 Teal Court in Westlake. So, yes, I represent the church.

I'm the bishop of a congregation that meets at the building. I'm also, as I mentioned, a resident of Westlake. I live in the community, have for many years. And really, as was already mentioned, the use of the pavilion is is to just continue activities and things that are already occurring on the back lawn. The pavilion really just provides comfort and convenience for those activities and allows additional places for us to to meet.

We generally, you know, in our services, we meet on Sundays. We do not use the back lawn on those Sunday services. All of our Sunday services are held inside. Typically where something like this would be used would be on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening for children or youth programs where we'll have small gatherings of activities, yard games, things like that. Nothing noisy or disruptive, generally not having any speakers or loud loud music or or things.

As was mentioned, we we don't drink alcohol as a congregation, so there will not be alcohol on the premises. We don't we do not rent out our facilities for any outside purposes, so it will only be used by local congregants. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Bishop. And then just to wrap up, I'd like to introduce mister Max Patton. He's our engineer. Max, if you can just give maybe an overview of quickly of some of the modifications that we've done to try to address. And then, of course, he's available for any technical questions that the commission may have.

Thank you.

Yeah. Max Payton. 339 Park Lane, Springboro, Ohio. Again, I'm a civil engineer for the project and just wanted to kinda reiterate some of the changes we made. We've rotated the building 90 degrees. We have revised the buffering to add either a vinyl or wood fence option depending on the council's or commission's recommendation. And we added the I believe it was 17 Norway spruce buffer trees as well as adding the dumpster enclosure. And if you guys have any questions for me on the technical side, feel free to ask.

Thank you.

Great. Thank you very much. Alright. We're gonna have our commission discuss it, and then we'll turn it over to the public. And we'll probably have a three minute limit for the public, to respond to her questions. So I think I'm gonna kick it off with councilman Van Dyke.

Thank you. So it's been a little time here that we spent on it. So I'd actually like to go back and just take a look at a couple of the things about actual proposal that was that's here. And so I'd like to I'd like to start with what the building looks like and what the materials are that they're proposing. So so can you can you just well, actually, what the applicant could the applicant come up again?

The engineer, I think, would probably be the right person to answer these questions. So good evening. The structure is a steel structure?

Correct. With a asphalt shingle roof.

Okay. And so the actual the the structure of the those arches that we see there is are those steel or is that wood?

Unfortunately, I'm I'm not the architect and I it's been a while since I've looked at the architectural plan. I can take a look and I don't know off the top of my head. I'm sorry.

Yeah. I guess I'd like to just, know, because we haven't talked about this in a while. What was it that we had

I have it here somewhere.

While you're looking, we can talk about a couple other things.

It's a yeah the structural support powder coated steel tube columns five inch by five inch three sixteenths thick roof assembly. It's a glulam beams exposed two by eight tongue and groove wood decking. It's continuous fascia, pressure treated two by six lumber, integrated metal drip edge detail. At least when this was written, there were no gutters included in the design. I think that's everything. Okay.

So it's a it'll look like park pavilion with except for the steel columns, which can, of course, can be painted out to a brown color or something like that or whatever. I don't know if you submitted colors. It probably needs to be something to clarify. And the reason know, the architect to me wants everything symmetrical. So the reason that pavilion is shifted over to the east a little bit was to

Maximize the the remaining yard area so they can use it for, you know, playing activities for the children.

Okay. Alright. Okay. And the And when we start when when the first proposal was for 1,200 square feet and at that time there was no other fences or landscaping or anything it was just a 1,200 square foot pavilion.

Correct.

That's correct. Okay. And Jim, you mentioned that actually that that approval then expired time wise is what happened. Right. Yeah. Okay. But nonetheless, this body had or some members of this body had approved a 1,200 square foot pavilion. What year was that? 2023. Okay. So two years two years ago. Alright. And then you said the church was 1967 when it was constructed.

Correct.

So actually, it predated pretty much every house around it. Maybe what few on Westwood might have been there. Do you remember Lauren?

I don't remember. That was before I was born.

Okay. Maybe maybe I IBI should remember. Right?

Probably before Lauren's time.

Yes. We shouldn't bring that up. It was, you know, it's early. It's been there quite a while. So, and then, so the applicant here has now come back and, you know, with the larger proposal, though, they've tried to address some of the concerns with the fence.

I always like wood but I'm assuming that this if it was a vinyl fence it's sort of a when you said it's a wood looking type fence, do you have a picture of it? Do you do you did you submit anything for that?

We we did not.

No. Okay. I mean, I can kinda picture there's some that now have browns or tans or something like that. What were you thinking of for the color?

A natural wood finish. It would actually look like a wood grain. It would show it's not just brown painted. It, has the detail

of grain Right.

To it. Texture.

Okay. And that's a six foot height. What height is the pavilion?

Little over 13. 13 feet.

Okay. So not well, about about, you know, half again or the same or double the size there. Lighting. So tell me again what the lighting is going be on that.

It's just within the pavilion all facing down. It's basically lighting for the pavilion. There's no wall packs on the outside to provide Yeah. Exterior lighting.

And actually, how do you light the back of that property? Is there are there do you have is there a

Wall pack or anything?

Yeah. What do There are no current parking lot lights in the back of the pavilion. On the existing shed utility building, there's a a wall pack.

Yeah. Okay. Which we're actually we don't like wall packs particularly so but

That's what I call it. It may not be. Yeah.

So the lighting though in this you know there's you can get things pretty bright these days. What what did we have for the lumens on that Jim? Did we have some requirement on that? Would be

We didn't. It's only going to be they're only going to be turned on when they're using it.

Right. But are they that's fine, except how bright are they? Because you know, makes sense.

I don't have that information. I don't recall if that was anything that was provided previously or not. No. I mean, because

it's a if it's an if you're using it after dark and you need the lights on, I would still think they should be of a lower you know, I was gonna say wattage, but lumens to keep it a little more low key. And alright. So and let's just talk about, you know, a church in general. So you can, as a church, I think you brought it everybody's brought it up here. I think we've discussed this too. You could go out there and if you wanted to, you could have a service in the parking lot.

Right?

So this, you know, can use this for those variety of things. What you're really saying though is it's meant to be more for a low key amount of I shouldn't say amount of usage, but, you know, it's not necessarily gonna be worship service, not gonna be singing, music. He said no speakers. Right? So there if was music, it might be, you know.

Alright. Well, the other thing is the pine trees you're proposing, those grow up those grow pretty tall, don't they? Pretty wide. And those are the kind that actually they have the the the what am I trying to say? Needles. Right? Or the they cut sort of hang down. Right? Yeah. I had one in a house in Bay Village that it was a beautiful beautiful it it it kind of it's a gorgeous looking tree. And it also kind of blocks the view. Right. And with the snow on it, they're they're spectacular. So alright. Well, those are my comments for the moment.

I I I think there's still and not I'm gonna you know, depending on what the rest of the commission wants to do, I still think there's some things that will need to be not necessarily that you have to come back, but I they need to be put in clarifications in terms of the lighting that would be submitted and some of that type of stuff. Color of fences, the color of the

Mhmm.

Pavilion structure. So that's all I have at the moment. Thank Trustee, everybody else has to say.

Thank you. Missus Smith?

Okay. And then you you have made the the the correction or the the changes that we had asked where you rotated the pavilion. You you have the buffering with the fence and the trees. And I guess the only question, as councilman Van Dyke brought up, is the color of all this stuff. I think we've gotten so focused on trying to hone in on the modifications to screen it and rotate it and all this other stuff that we forgot to ask for that. So I would like to see that if it could be approved administratively by Mr. Bedell. So those are my comments. Great. Thank you. Mr. Jones?

Thank you. I guess I have a question for mister Vidal. So they're putting in a you know, they're proposing a six foot high solid fence, the material to be determined, and also right behind that, a number of evergreen trees. So, that looks kind of similar to what would be required for a buffer if there were if a buffer was required between so is there a buffer actually required in this case? Do they have to put this in or is this something that they're just doing above and beyond the requirements?

Well, it's kind of a gray area because they're not building an entirely new facility. They're adding to it. I think they're going above and beyond. Okay. Initially what they did previously, just just the screening directly around it, think is probably more more akin to what you would expect for a buffer just for this particular use. Right. But they've expanded it. So it's actually gonna buffer provide a buffer that the site has never had.

Right. Buffers the entire site not just the pavilion. Right. So okay. Yeah. I mean, I just kind of wanted to point that out. I wasn't sure if that was even required but I think, know, it's it's it seems like the right thing to do and it seems like it's based largely in what our buffering requirements typically look like when, you know, like say if this was a commercial use, you know, right up next to residential, that's something we want to see. So it's basically this, you know, and so this is I I think it's the right thing to do and I'm glad to see they're doing it. The only other questions I have have already been brought up, you know, just that the that the plan is a little bit thin on, aesthetic details. Right?

So I think that, you know and and I think that largely because everything we're seeing is black and white, we're not seeing you know, lots of times we're used to seeing renderings and things like that. They haven't submitted that, which is fine. We just need to, you know, think when if we're gonna move this forward, we need to make sure that we put into our motions, you know, what the expectation is. So, I don't necessarily want to lead that discussion. Believe I'll defer to the architects on the board, but, I I would agree. Think, just my personal preference. I know I I kind of agree with you about the wood, you know, maybe being a nicer look, but, know, there's also the factor of maintenance being a lot less on a vinyl fence, I think that they can also look pretty nice as well.

So Mhmm.

I'm open to either on that. So that's all I have.

Great. Thank you. Mister Del Wagneaux?

Thank you. Okay. So one is we've made the statement. There's no new activities come with the pavilion. Currently, how many activities are on the schedule or were in the schedule for 2024? I'm sorry, Bishop. Didn't think I had made you walk up here, but sorry. And while he's coming up, you already answered it's typically Tuesday, Wednesday evenings, and then I believe Saturdays are a possibility as well.

Yes. I would say Saturdays would be possibility. So so really in terms of a true calendared item, it's really just one annual activity. Happens on a Saturday, typically between like noon to three or eleven to two. It's a a picnic gathering. And then outside of that, it's more informal activities.

Weather's nice, go outside.

Right. Exactly. We we're we're typically there every Tuesday or Wednesday night with there's two congregations that meet at the building. So one is on Tuesday night. The other is on Wednesday night for children and youth activities. Those typically last between seven to 8PM. And and so occasionally, we'll use the outside instead of the inside.

If you had to guess how often last year did you have Tuesday, Wednesday events?

Well, we have them

using the

exterior. Using the exterior. Less than 20.

Less than 20. Okay.

Yeah.

Alright. In in a letter we received we received today that says there's no outdoor speaker systems are part of this development. What is the plan for amplification of sound? Because we know that the Saturday event does have a speaker of some fashion.

Yes. So for that particular activity, we have used just a portable speaker to have some music or to be able to to speak to the the people that are that are joining to give directions of where to eat or a different activity happening. I have in the past, you know, number of years, think we've had one, like, youth dance in the evening there that that maybe lasted a couple hours between, like, six to eight. So, yeah, we had music for that. But again, kind of a portable speaker that we brought out. And then would but it's not a a permanent thing.

Not a permanent thing. Not a Yeah. Not an every Tuesday, Wednesday when it's nice out event.

No, absolutely not. Okay.

All right. And then as far as thank you everyone for kind of making the modifications that we looked at from a buffering standpoint. And as colleague said it's kind of goes above and beyond what we're what's I'll say is as a gray area that's we appreciate that those efforts on that and I believe also part of the reason for the shift to the east side of the property or keeping it off center to the east as opposed to off center to the west which would give you a little bit further distance from the homes on the north, right? Those those homes north come in at an angle running from north to south So they get a little bit closer, but I believe there is exit out that back door of the facility that gives you more direct access to the pavilion from the structure. Is fair statement?

Okay.

Yes, there is. That's correct.

I just wanted to make sure. I understood that tree preservation is going to remain the same, fence comes down. We also discussed some of the maintenance and I and I think mister Jeffries, you probably walked the property after we spoke and noticed that there are some trees that need some pruning and some things like that that would also assist at the with our neighbors to the north. Is that a fair

statement? Correct. And we have pruned the trees and then there's three trees that have been marked for removal. Removal. And I've worked and I've talked to the city about the plan for those so they're aware of when we'll do that in conjunction with the project. Okay.

But we

but prior to that, we have removed any hanging limbs or any dead limbs from those trees so

that

they're good for the winter.

Appreciate that.

Go ahead. I'm sorry, commissioner. Just and just to clarify, that was at the recommendation, the trees for removal of the city arborist. Correct?

Yeah.

Yep.

Understood. Dumpster enclosures, keeping it on the east side of the property, is that the preferred? Okay. And I think I stay away from colors, so that's the architect side of them. But I'm good. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. I don't really have any questions. I think everything's been very detailed. I

have responses. Pardon?

I said I believe something's

Got it. Just real quick, want to comment. My opinion, I think you're still going to gather there anyway with a tent if you don't have the pavilion. That's kind of what I've heard. And whether it's 600 feet or 1,800 feet, you still got the same amount of people outside. So that's kind of what I'm hearing too. And then also, the amount that you're going to use it and the hours you're going to use it are very structured. I mean, you're not going to be there from six to midnight. It doesn't sound like anything is going on after eight Is that a fair assumption? Maybe nine? Yeah. So I think that's good. And that you're not having worship there. Think originally we talked a little about Bible study being there, maybe Sunday school, sometimes going outside, which should be a set amount of time. It wouldn't be longer than a couple hours, I would think.

I appreciate all the improvements you made. I'm really excited about the buffering. And I know that residents were concerned about the back landscaping and also about the dumpster. So I'm glad that's being resolved. I don't have any other comments but I think Mr. Bedell has some comments.

Yeah so first on the pavilion. Let me see is there a Okay. So the the sides of the pavilion or the sides of the roof come down. And as far as the lighting is concerned, so the lighting is on the it's on the underside of the roof structure. So it's it's there. If you're gonna see it at all, it's gonna be east to west where it's a little bit more open on the gable like that. But it's it's up there high enough. So I did I I looked this up, the c eight one two. It does say that lighting is by a different contractor. So they don't actually have that designed yet at this point.

I can tell you though, I looked at 11:30.03, which is our exterior lighting code, and we don't have a standard for this type of a use. The only closest that we might have to it would be something like a building entry, like a covered building entry, or a porte cochere, or something like that. And that's not even close to what something like this would be. So that's a kind of a problematic from what do you decide is right. So I would think with that what you could do is you could request a photometric plan for whatever lighting is done. And then I can review it and make sure that there's no light trespass to the adjacent properties. So I think that's the way to handle that.

So it's not even so much light trespass. Because I agree that they're up in the ceiling, and they're going to shine down. It's just that if you have this with some of these LED lights, can get things that are 1,000 lumens. Want to in my opinion, you want something a little more subtle. So it's for your enjoyment as well as for the neighbors what they're looking at.

You know what I'm saying? Color temperature and all that matters. So I don't know if you have to do a photometric as much as I think it's the actual fixture when they specify it, you know, when they submit it, we should I think you can do it administratively, but take a look at it and just make sure it's, you know frankly, the I would think they would want something like that, so it's a pleasant place to, you know At

your time.

If it's in the evening.

And and I can say that we have done a photometric plan. I I thought it had been submitted. But You you may have. It's been a while,

months now.

I can say from looking at it, it's a 49 watt LED. It's the lamp type that it's listed. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I

can't Yeah.

Unfortunately, that doesn't give me enough data to be able to figure that out. But I can definitely take a look at it. As far as I thought we talked about the materials in the past. It's right in the box score on the bottom. So the roof is asphalt shingle and charcoal. The fascia and post are in bronze.

Okay. They still need to submit. I would they they should submit the actual samples of what they're using. And

and for the dumpster as well.

I I I have one question, chair Belkick, So if I the fence extends to the when you say the parking, so when the where the so just us the grass area, then after that, the part rest of the parking is gonna remain the chain link fence. Is that Yes.

It it'll be easier to show you. Basically, around that. Oh. Yeah. And it ends this is where the parking lot stops. So from here, down on both sides, would still be the chain link.

So let's go back to that aerial you had with some And the thought behind not going a little further with it was?

I on discussions with Jim, we kinda felt that that would be the most appropriate given the change that we're making on the on the site.

Yeah. I can't I you know, I

I

the chain link that was there, it's kinda it's been there a while, hasn't it? I think. So I don't know what's your plan for long term with the with that chain link?

So the chain link in the back that has been problematic will be replaced and I guess we can discuss a plan for the rest of the chain link.

Yeah. Well, just, you know what I'm saying is it's a little rusty looking. Alright. Well, I guess that's all for the moment.

Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. So we'll invite the audience to make comments then. And then if there are additional questions, we'll have the applicants come back to answer them. But, we've gotten a lot of public input on this, so I guess we're gonna try to keep it to three minutes. If it's new, I'd prefer that because I know we did get all your emails, all your letters over the last two meetings, and we had your input too. So if you could limit it to three minutes, And then if it's something that we've already heard, if you could do it pretty quickly.

And Bonnie had a question about or a comment about the dumpster enclosure. It calls for brick veneer. And they will be in a color to match the existing building.

Oh, okay. Good. Thank you. Welcome.

Hi. I'm Kim Williams.

I live at two Yeah.

One yeah. Sorry. Can we

do one resident at a time? I mean, can speak too, but let's let her go first. Your name is Williams.

24525 Annie Lane. I live directly behind the property. Yep. I wanted to just discuss real quickly. Prince of Peace was required to hire a professional landscape architect. They did a beautiful job with mounds buffering, beautiful landscaping, different varieties of plants. I'm part of the

I'm gonna get over to

the microphone sorry. I've been a participant in the Westlake in bloom every year and has have been a winner. So this really affects our properties, property values, the fact that they're gonna put a 30 or a spruce every 30 feet, I have spruce, actually lining the property it took twenty years to get and it's not 30 it's there's no buffering, it They grow slow and it's gonna take twenty years, with what they have proposed to provide any buffering. They're asking for, a modification three times, what Westlake City code allows, and if they're required, if they're asking for a modification, we feel it's fair that then they should be providing more buffering with mounds. Our properties sit higher, we're not very we're not level so we're higher.

I feel like in the last month they've added more lighting, they have they have really tall down lighting so it illuminates into our homes. I think there's 15 maybe 15 going around lighting up the entire property so when the gentleman made a reference to that there's only one puck lighting that's just not just not accurate. They do actually use speakers and amplification systems that we sent to you guys and I just wanted to say that this modification is you know three times the size they talk about use but having something so large is going to increase noise and be very loud. Here's an example of an 1,800 square foot pavilion that we were at a clambake and they fit 300 people in that. The church did mention that they have nic tables, so this is type of sort of a visual of what we're thinking we're gonna have in our backyards.

Thank you. Thank you. Hello.

Good evening. My name is Jamil Day. I live at 24541 Annie Lane right behind this property to the north. And I just wanna comment on the the the gentleman who said that the property value around Prince Of Peace that that was that was much higher now. And just I wanna remind him that the the tax the property tax went up 30% across the board, not because of of of this.

It's because of the county wanted more money. And then San Bernadette that has 400 square feet is doing good job there with 400 square feet backing to to a park when they're gonna have 1,800 square foot backing to to our properties. And more more more kids you have, they're gonna that mean it's gonna be much more noise. And as as Kim said, in regard to the to the speakers, you can you can hear what happened in mid August when they had a party. You can hear it from 400 feet away, very loud.

So this is this is really something that is very concerning. And the trees, I don't think they should be more than five feet apart. So this it's it's like like a joke to have 30 feet apart. You can you can have trailer coming in in between. Thank you.

Thank you. I forgot. Just real quick. The the board on board fencing.

Say your name again? Just just real quickly. Sorry.

The board on board fencing, is it actually, touching, or are there gaps in between?

We'll get that question answered for you. Thank you. Thank you. Who else would like to speak on this?

Hi. My name is Jill Barnes. I live at 30868 Prestwick Crossing. I've lived in Westlake twelve years. I have four kids who are at three different Westlake schools.

And I would just like to add my voice, in favor of this project. I also have the opportunity to serve as the president of the children's organization for one of the congregations that meets at this building. And so I oversee 18 olds to 11 year olds. And having this pavilion, to summarize in one word what this would be would be wholesome. Wholesome activities that build faith in Jesus Christ, provide unity with other kids who have the same standards that we do, provide opportunities for personal growth and strengthen individuals and families.

So some examples of these activities are not gonna be, you know, ongoing loud parties, that's just not how we are, but service projects that blesses the community and builds relationships within the community, opportunities to develop leadership skills, education and vocational training, opportunities to develop talents, and sports and fitness. Any activity that might have a portable speaker always ends at a very reasonable reasonable hour. Hour. So I just wanted to to reiterate that. As a mom, I always love when my kids can have a safe place to meet, and this would be just that.

As a community member and a resident, I I understand the concerns about living in a quiet neighborhood and wanting to maintain that quiet neighborhood, but again, this this would be just wholesome place for kids to gather. That's what that is. So thank you so much. Thank you. Welcome.

I got up in August, but I'll get up again.

Sure. Thank

you. Glenn Franklin. I'm right across the street from the church, 24931 Westwood Road. And I'll let you know, couple months ago after this meeting, I went back into the neighborhood behind. I understand their concern. It's a very quiet neighborhood, two dead ends. Only people who go back there live there are invited to come back there. I definitely understand the concerns. We have not added any new lighting to the parking lot, which was mentioned. There are two lights next to the building on each side of the building, one in the parking lot on each side and then one in the very back.

So three total?

Yeah. So, yeah, three on each side. Okay. So the six, seven.

Okay.

Seven. And then there's one on the the storage shed. Okay. Nothing has been added.

Got

it. One light actually burned out, we replaced it. So maybe that was what made it brighter. I know one of the concerns is traffic. I don't anticipate any additional traffic with the pavilion. I cross the street to go to our services. Sometimes they're Westwood's a pretty busy road, so I have to wait, but it's not not unreasonable. And when people come and leave, they leave staggered times, so it's not a not a traffic issue as well. So I I mentioned this in August, I'll leave my phone number with anyone. If you have concerns, call me.

I'll go take care of it. If you think it's too loud, too bright, if the lights are left on, I'll turn them off. I will I will be there. I have a view of the pavilion once it's built for my house. So thank you.

Great. Thank you.

Welcome. Hello. My name is Sarah Rish. I live at 28216 Stonegate Circle in Westlake. I am a Westlake resident, obviously, and a mom, and I am lucky enough to call many of the Latter day Saints my friends. I am not a member of the church. I'm actually Roman Catholic. I'd like to point out that my address is directly behind the Prince Of Peace Pavilion that was built recently and I consider the pavilion to be nothing more than an asset to our neighborhood. It is awesome to see our neighbors and churches worshiping openly. I consider that to be a beautiful thing that we should be encouraging in our community.

I also have been lucky enough to be invited to many of the events that occur outside at the Church of Latter day Saints, including the picnic. The events that the Latter day Saints hold embody nothing but family, community, and faith. They are indeed wholesome and they are events and things that we should be proud that are happening in our community. I think our community our city can only benefit from these things. And I would encourage any of the residents if they do hear any noise, which I really have a hard time believing there's anything raucous happening at the Latter day Saints Church.

But if you were to hear this, I would actually encourage you to come out and maybe join in the fun. You would be welcomed. I can guarantee it. And I think you would find it to be only an asset to your neighborhood. I'd also like to point out that given some of the more recent tragic events that have occurred in our nation regarding churches and places of worship, I think we as a community need to support places of worship and encourage them to flourish.

The fact that the Church of Latter day Saints has membership and means to build a pavilion like this is a blessing. And I think that it can only be a benefit to us as a city to encourage our churches to spread their faith and community, it is a small way of ensuring that the evildoers do not win. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank

you. Would anyone else like to speak on this? Welcome Councilman Inari. This

is Nixi Inari, 3201 Canterbury Road Westlake. I've lived here my whole life. Basically, I'm very familiar with the I'm the councilman of that structure. I was invited and did spend time with Doctor. Williams and Mrs.

Williams at Annie Lane, where they're at. I have heard the noise in the back currently. I am concerned they didn't mention it, but I think there's a parking issue too, because there's cars parked all over the lawn at times there. So I think that would be something that this committee should look at. Also, I'm very concerned about the size.

600 is what's allowed. And now we've jumped to 1,803 times. I understand that in 'twenty three, 1,200 was allowed, although that's expired. But because of that allowment and with the new fencing and some of the things they're going to do, which it does sound like it's a big improvement. It's pretty bad around that area.

And I think that will help a lot. And I would be Okay with $1,200 But I would hope that this commission would not grant $1,800 It's too big. And my last concern is, and I will keep an eye on this personally, there's been a lot of maintenance issues over time with this particular church. And I would like, as a proud lifetime resident, you know, Westlake and Bloom and ever I wanted us to have the best of everything, and they are are needing to spruce up their their maintenance. Thank you.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak on this? Alright. Seeing none, can the applicant come back quickly and answer a couple questions?

And while they are, I take a look at the photometric site plan. I do need a revised one. It wasn't redone when it was rotated. It's likely in compliance with the fence, would make it in compliance, the proposed fence, as this currently shows. Once it's flipped 90 degrees, I'm sure it will be fully in compliance.

Thank you. I guess the first question is about a landscape architect or a landscape plan or changing the, I guess, the distance between the spruces? I mean, what do have any comments about that or if you can do that?

Yeah. Yes. We we did engage or we have a landscape architect and staff who who created the landscape plan. The 30 feet is as the spruce grow to prevent overcrowding.

Okay. Yeah. I'm not a landscape architect. So okay. Let's see what the other questions were. Guess the last one we just heard was about parking on the lawn. Does that happen repeatedly or just during your big event?

Not during that event. Twice a year, we have a what's called a state conference where multiple congregations come and meet on a Sunday for a meeting. And so that does overcrowd the parking lot, and so we have used the lawn area for additional parking

k.

Just for for those two meetings. That's on a Sunday morning from ten to noon.

And I believe there is a question about the the fence.

Yes.

It is board on board, so the boards would touch. It's actually dual sided. Sided.

So You could not see through it?

You would not be able

to see through it.

Okay. Got it. Great. Okay.

But and that's if it's a wood fence. If it's a vinyl fence

Completely.

Yeah. Solid as well for a vinyl fence. Just one. Solid. Right.

It would be solid without gaps at all, but it would be a flat. That wouldn't be a, like, a true board on board, which is what a wood fence does. Correct. Yeah.

K. Thank you very much. Any other questions for my fellow commissioners?

I do have two. Okay. I guess this the parking lot lighting. So I guess I'm gonna ask Mr. Bodell to go out and take a look at the lighting that's there existing lighting.

Right. And

just see what's going on with it to make sure that

it sounds like they had one burned out bulb and they replaced the burned out bulb. That's what we were told anyways. Right.

But is it is it are where do you have LED lights there? Are they just the old fashioned metal halide or mercury vapor or does any anybody know?

I do not believe we've upgraded this site to LED.

Well good. Don't do it until you talk to me first. We've got a code for that. It's very very specific. So you

know prevents light trespass.

Typically that is our practice.

And the other thing I'll just say is, so, you know, I don't know what the commission's gonna do here, but we you've kind of heard from, you know, from and I'll just say this to everybody, it goes both ways, it's neighborliness. And so you know, you having your events, which you're permitted to do, but also, you know, maybe if you have a speaker out there instead of pointing it towards the houses, point it towards the church. You know, I think there may be some ways you can work so that everybody kinda can coexist. I'll just say this. You know, I'm I'm yeah.

I don't back up to Clegg Park. I'm out, you know, but I'm the street adjacent to it. And all summer long, I hear kids playing baseball and I hear music in the pavilions when different people have parties and stuff like that. And it's part of summer, at least for me. So I'm ready for oh, go ahead.

I one question. Sorry. I think when we so I don't remember which meeting, I apologize. But at one point we did discuss the upgrade to the 1,800 square foot. So we're at, I believe it was 1,200 was the three two years ago, three years ago. What is the prime or what's the ramifications or if we why do you need 1,800 as opposed to the 1,200, I guess?

Yes. The Church of Latter day Saints has a standard for all of their facilities, and they upgraded their standard from the 1,200 square foot to the 1,800 square foot. And they did it after it was approved before it was constructed. They didn't wanna build something that was immediately outdated. So they don't they didn't

church's standards are for 1,800?

They now are.

Yes.

Okay. And then what does that look like if it is 1,200? Going against standards, I understand and we always try and Mr. Bodello of standards, but what is the ramification of going 1,200 for the church?

I guess I could only say it would we would have to get exceptions and to to build that just because it's not what we standardly build. Okay.

From a Bishop, maybe you can answer this. From a use standpoint, how does that affect the the congregation?

I'm honestly not being super knowledgeable on dimensions and things. I I don't know off the top of my head how much that impacts us. I think, you know, certainly we could make do if we had to.

Mhmm.

But our preference would be for the 1,800 to follow the standard and to have the the space that we need. As previously pointed out, it is a very small percentage of the entire backyard. Understood.

Yep. Understood.

And and if I may, you know, the fact of the matter is this is not unusual. It's a it's like as I mentioned, you know, Prince of Peace has a 4,000 square foot pavilion. You know? So this is not an unusual request, especially in light of the fact that there are no well, let me back up. The square footage for pavilions were designed for residential structures on a residential lot. Oh, sure. This lot's four acres, and it's also a place of worship. So it's a different type of use. And so it's important as part of the church's mission to align with the church's national guidelines for these types of facilities.

Thank you. You're welcome.

If I may make one comment on the size and the sound. You know these the the sound that takes place at this annual party is going to continue with or without a pavilion. The amount of people that attend the party is gonna continue with or without a pavilion. The size the size of the pavilion will not impact how many people come to the activities. The activities are already in place and already happening. The pavilion just makes it more convenient for the members to hold these activities.

And I agree I I understand that. I agree with your synopsis there and at the same time, it would be a visible thing. Right? It would be more visible at eighteen verses 12 is where I'm at with it. So, totally get that. That's why I'm kinda saying, how does it affect the congregation to go with 1,200? You're still gonna have the same amount of people. You're still gonna have the same volume of noise. You're still gonna have the able to do the wonderful works that the church is doing with 1,200 or 1,800. It's going to continue. You're strong enough as a faith base to do that. So that's just kind of where I'm at.

Yeah. Would say that in the past for for our annual picnic, we have needed to rent tents and other structures. And so if we go smaller, then we likely will still need to supplement in order to have space for people to sit to eat their lunch. Thank you.

Anything else?

Nope. I'm alright.

You. We're Okay. Can I get a motion?

Yes. So before I put one together here, so did we make a decision one way or another? Are we on the fencing? Because I think they gave us two options. So are we approving one or the other? I think that that's kind of still hanging out there.

They're still gonna have to come back to us though, right, with the final plans? Are we gonna see this again?

I mean if we put a motion to approve and it's approved then no, that would only be if we were gonna table it. I'm gonna make a motion I'm gonna make a motion to approve so if we're doing that do we want to have a what are we gonna put in there for the fencing? Architecture. And like I said, I I think several of us have talked about it. We maybe had a visual preference for the wood, but we're okay with the vinyl. Sounds like the church prefers the vinyl. Are we okay with what they prefer, which is the vinyl?

If it's less maintenance, I think that's probably the way to go.

Yeah. Alright.

It it I'm sorry. It's fine. The one thing is and actually, Max, you can confirm this. The vinyl is actually more expensive. It it reflects more of an investment. Now over the long term maintenance wise, it's easier. But just so you know, it's not

No, no. For us, it's more about the aesthetics versus the maintenance. Okay. And then as far as lighting, you just need to photometrics

and And put that in the lighting, lighting cut sheets or the lighting, because they haven't selected a

few Lighting specifications?

Yeah. Lighting specifications. Hold on. Let me jot this down. Lighting specs and revive okay. And, you had mentioned something about having, samples of the material submitted or do you think we're or do you

think there's enough The actual materials. So they should submit a sample of the shingles and a color of the actual the wood structure is going to have, I'm assuming, some stain on it or something. Maybe not.

And then also for the dumpster enclosure as well.

Right. Right.

So all

the they they all the material like, material boards that we would have had.

Okay. So we'll say submit material board. Submit material samples for the exterior item. Okay. That's fine. Alright.

And do it for administrative.

I do have a quick question. And I apologize to interrupt. Are we talking about administrative approval Yes. And coordination? Okay. That's what I just want to make sure. Thank you.

Alright. And I think was were there any other additional things you

were gonna

three trees making sure those three trees are actually taken care of.

The trees okay

three

trees to be removed per the arborist recommendation or

I don't you can't really do that.

Can't put that in there okay alright we'll leave that out.

They're not connect it's not connected to the actual request

okay that's fine Alright. Then based upon the findings of fact, I move to recommend approval of the Church of Jesus Christ at Latter day Saints development plan pavilion with the following. One, modification to exceed 600 square feet in size. Two, condition lighting is turned off when not in use except for any lighting needed for security in accordance with section twelve thirty point zero three. Three, that revised photometrics and lighting specs shall be submitted for administrative review and approval.

Four, submit material samples for the pavilion structure and dumpster materials for administrative review and approval. Five, the vinyl fence, is recommended for approval. And six are standard conditions.

Thank you. Second.

Roll call, please.

Before we take the vote, fence should also be submitted for color

and So add to to the condition whatever number that was of the material samples up on the fence material also be submitted.

Yeah. I think you want to maybe specify it's in a natural wood color too so doesn't end up white vinyl doesn't end up coming across my desk. Okay.

Again, it'll be for administrator approval. So yep. Okay. Good.

Roll call, please.

Jones? Yes. Falcone? Yes. Del Reigno?

Yes. Smith? Yes. Van Dyke?

Yes.

Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Member of Committee. Thank you,

Park Committee. Our next item on the agenda is Chancellor Light Site Improvements.

Yes. So as you recall, this is a playground for the new Chancellor Light School. And they had actually started work on a playground that was 50 by 50 in the parking lot as a result of meeting with the Planning Commission. It's now been revised to be adjacent to the building. So that mitigates the previous safety concerns related to children crossing the parking lot. Now they can walk out the back door and be right at it. Removes 34 parking spaces. The site maintains 68 space surplus of parking. Schools actually require fewer spaces than office uses do. Fewer people coming and going during the day.

Fewer employees. So there should not be any issue on from a parking standpoint of removing those spaces. And the new design eliminates the movable safety signs that were needed at the crosswalk. So that goes away. One thing is they are showing bollards which is great. Safety bollards. They have them designed at five feet and code calls for four feet. You'll see that in the fire department comments. There they are right there. And then the other thing with fire of course they want to see that twenty five fifty foot turning radii through the site.

And you have it down there. That's actually new drawing that was provided today. And there's also the other drawing showing the bollards at the wrong spacing. So that'll have to be fixed. I've gone through some of these before. So I'll just skip over them and go to the ones that have changed. So next the front really doesn't it's a little bit closer to the front but no issues with that. The side setbacks now are working out perfectly. It's much farther far away as it possibly could be from the west and still be adjacent to the building. Not have a parking lot crossing issue.

No really issues with the rear of course. And then the only thing is with buffering. Normally you would expect to see buffering but then again how do you buffer do you require buffering of just the playground? This site has zero buffering at all. So I kind of left that up to you to decide what to do with it. You could require a six foot fence on the west facing side of it. I mean that's the only area that really is adjacent to residential. But then as you see it's also 118 feet away from the west. So is that even necessary? And then of course it's such a distance from the west that anybody that is on the 2nd Or 3rd Floor of the adjacent building they're going to see it anyway.

So you're not going to able to build a 30 foot high wall. So that's why I kind of left that blank. Anyways here's the new location as you can see at the top in green. That's roughly about where it will be at and do that particular drawing in scale. But just to give you an idea. Of course the lower one is the one that they have changed. So this was the October submittal. This drawing here in November is just showing you the that they are going to replace the parking spaces, the handicapped parking spaces with new ones. And then we got some in today. The reason we got new drawings in today really it was only one.

It had to do with that fire safety plan. Originally they just they didn't have it numbered properly for the twenty five and fifty foot attorney radii. I threw it in AutoCAD. I drew it up and found that yeah it did meet the requirements. But I told them they needed to draw it. So that was just last week. They drew it and that's why you have it today. So two of the drawings. This has not changed at all. They just re submitted it again. And this is the one that wasn't drawn properly. Now here it is drawn properly. The only thing that's changed is that you're showing the 2,550. Fire department's already approved it that way. So no issues with that being done that way.

This one also is showing the location of the where it says slow sign. So it's at a better a couple better spots at the edge of the playground, the north edge of the playground. And then as people enter the parking lot really from either side, the East or West Drive they should be able to see there's a couple more signs down there. So those are now working the way that they should. Okay.

This was that setback drawing I had done previously. And now the new proposed playground is outside of the setbacks. As you know that other one was almost completely in the setback. And these are just from last time. Obviously if you recommend approval this way, this will all have to be removed and moved over to the new location.

So there's a if we need to come back to this there's the proposed location. And there's where it is currently. There's a lot of slides to get through. There we go. So if you can make a recommendation, again Planning Commission is a recommendation in terms of site improvements.

There's a recommended condition about bollards. Then number two you to decide what to do with buffering. Number three that was a condition that was just talked about previously. About that the playground remains locked and not in use restricted to school operations only. Which is something that the owner wants to do as well. But that's being memorialized here. It's not going be a public playground by any means. And then the standard condition as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bedell. Welcome. Anything you'd like to add? Name and address too, please?

So thank you. This Can

I get your name and address, please?

Laura Wolf. 4814 Ridgebury Boulevard, Lyndhurst. So I think this revised plan addresses a lot of the life safety issues that we had from last month. But with further discussion from the school, they have concerns as well. And they'd really like to keep it in its current location. So I'd like to introduce you to Erin from the school.

Welcome.

Hi. I'm Erin Romine. I reside I'm sorry. What's your last name? Romine. I reside at 6738 Pitts Boulevard, North Ridgeville. And as mentioned, I do represent Chancellights Westlake Autism Center. If you can't tell, public speaking is not at the top of my resume, so I appreciate as you bear with me. But I would love the opportunity to advocate for our students that are near and dear

to my

heart. Last month, I shared a brief overview of our program and the students we serve along with many benefits that an outdoor play area as well as playground access provide our students. This evening, I'm pleased to join you in person to talk a little more about the people at Chancellights Westlake programs and the impact of the playground placement. Our staff are all local residents dedicating their careers to working with students with special needs. Our students are all local public school students and they are students dealing with profound learning challenges including autism.

Chancellor partners with a wide range of school districts to provide this specialized education for their most vulnerable students, North Ridgeville, Avon, Avon Lake, Amherst, Sheffield, Elyria, just to name a few. Daily, our teachers and staff share the immense responsibility of working with students to develop social emotional skills, academic progress, communication skills, and overall increase their quality of life. We are blessed every day to have this opportunity and we accept that it comes with challenges. One of those challenges is for our students is that they are more at risk when it comes to things like public safety and parking lots. This is something we are cognizant of in each and every day as student safety is always our primary concern.

For that reason, we worked closely with the building owner when designing the layout of our campus to select a safe and secure location. So, when looking at student safety and legal requirements, each student at Westlake Autism Center has an individualized education program or an IEP. And, it's a legally binding document designed to meet the unique needs of each learner. One section of the IEP addresses transportation as related service, which eats which for many of our students include the requirements curb to curb pickup and drop off. This provision ensures that students are safely transported to and from school.

Relocating the playground to the proposed site would require vehicles to park further from the building, forcing students to walk a greater distance and potentially compromising their safety and fulfillment of their IEP requirements. The original placement ensures the highest level of safety and security for our students. Transitioning challenges for students with ASD. For many individuals with autism spectrum disorder, transitions between activities or environments can be challenging. These moments can sometimes lead to emotional distress or behaviors such as refusal to move, crying, aggression, or self injurious behaviors.

There are numerous antecedents or triggers for these behavior responses and one that is especially difficult for students is transitioning from a preferred activity to a less preferred activity. The playground is a highly preferred activity for, I would like to say, all of my students and myself included. Its current location allows for transitions only when necessary. Moving it to a different area would increase the likelihood of maladaptive behaviors when transitioning past the playground, resulting in extended recovery times. This disruption not only impacts the individual student, but also diverts staff's attention away from the rest of the class.

And then opportunities for skill development. The current playground location provides students with the chance to safely practice essential community and safety skills, such as walking through a parking lot with adult supervision or hand holding. Because traffic levels in our lot are predictably low during the school day, teachers can intentionally target these skills in a controlled environment. This structured practice helps students generalize safe walking behaviors to community settings beyond the school. In summary, we are here tonight to advocate on behalf of the safety and well-being of our students, keeping the playground where it currently is located, maximizes safety and compliance with legal IEP requirements, minimal traffic interference, reduces stress and behavioral disruptions, continued opportunities for skill building, and a structured distraction free learning environment.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Would either of you like to add anything else?

My name is Santi Thacker, 1274 Arbor Crest Drive, Hinkley, Ohio. And I just wanted to so we took your advice from last time. We moved it closer, which you guys asked us to do. And then we had a meeting with the school, the higher ups. And then I had a meeting with Aaron. And obviously, you guys heard Aaron today. Excuse me. I'm sorry. And so I feel the same way you guys do. I'm sure you're feeling the same way that I did. I don't manage kids with autism. I never have. It's not my forte. But she does. And I know you guys make decisions based off of your rules and regulations.

And so I said, Erin, you've got to tell them your story. It's got to come from you, not from me. And let's see what they say. But so you heard it straight from her. And I do feel, because we have I mean, she has the kids in there, and they are it's not easy. And so I would ask that you consider her request. Thank you.

Thank you. Anything else to add? Okay. We'll start with the commissioners and then we'll move to the public comment. Mister Del Regino?

Thank you. So I heard you, Aaron heard you loud and clear. I understand the difficulties or I should say I don't understand them but I empathize for you on that. So with that being said, you work closely with the building owner. As we said before, it was probably best to work closely with the building department and the building owners so we wouldn't be in this predicament because that's where it all started from. You mentioned curb to curb drop off and pick up. So where is your, on the structure itself, where are your classrooms in relationship to the building inside the building? I'm sorry. We okay. So they're in they're in that

Yeah.

What I'll call is the Northeast corner of the building?

Mhmm. They can use this central exit or there's an exit right

out You need to be on the microphone.

There's

an exit just right there.

Right. Okay. So with it with the with that being said and then the curb to curb drop off, where if we leave if you were to leave the playground in its current location, how how does that change your curb to curb drop off? What what what what changes here?

With this location?

Yes, ma'am.

So then the our transportation companies are coming in around the building. They drop at

the first

door and then they drop at the last door. So they would need to go around the around the perimeters.

Can you can you there's a drawing right there.

Can you

just use the drawing?

Yes. So our transportation enters over here and they go around this way. Currently they're able to drop right at this door. They would need to go around the playground and students would need to be coming from over here to enter over here.

And if we continue, if they continued around and dropped at the slow sign on the east corner, would that suffice? Around the playground, continue past that. You're you're you're

Over here?

Yes, ma'am. That's still giving you a curb to curb drop off?

I would say it would still impede with the overall accessibility. However it

Because bear in mind where the playground sits currently there are parking spots.

Yes.

So if there were cars parked there you'd still have the same obstacle if you will or an obstacle to get into it. So I guess I'm not seeing the curb to curb drop off being modified or changed at this point. So and with that being said, we are there were some other statements made regarding, you know, to me that is the prime location originally and I don't know if you're here for the last meeting that we had where I said, you know, move it back into the parking lot, put it in the middle of the parking lot, allow us to continue the loop system through it and take up spaces and make it longer than wider and, you know, kind of fill that in. So we just take up parking spaces and not lanes like we kind of did over on the what's currently there which it was originally installed. I appreciate everyone's effort Laura and his effort to get this into a good spot, in my opinion, a much better spot for the students along with the parking flow, along with public safety, and the other tenants inside of the building.

So I like the changes that were made and appreciate the efforts to get them that were there. That's all.

Thank you. Mr. Jones? Thank

you.

I'm So not sure how to ask this question. Can you tell us a little more about sort of the transitions that your kids go through as they switch between activities? Because that's actually you mentioned you didn't have a lot of familiar I have I do have some familiarity with this firsthand. So I I I kinda get what you're saying, but, how would it be different, with the playground being in this location versus it being farther from the building?

So with this location right here, students would need to either transition directly next to the playground or directly beside the playground as they're entering. So that's an unnecessary transition right next to a highly preferred activity when it is not available. And so with the original location, it allowed transitions to take place to the playground when necessary and when it's an available activity, but not something that was interfering with their day.

So then like maybe I'm maybe I'm making a leap here but so if, you know, say at pick up or drop off times, now they're gonna be picked up and dropped off right next to a playground. So the kids will see the playground, think that it's time to hit the playground but it's not. So that can throw off your sort of routine. Is that kind of the idea?

Yes. Most definitely.

Yeah. I haven't thought of that. And it's and and I and it's definitely a valid point. However, I also think that having the park having it closer to the building just from a just from a straight safety standpoint and I get what you're saying about, you know, it's an opportunity to kinda teach the kids, you know, about being safe in those in those situations. I can understand that too, but I think that weighing everything, think I'd still rather see it closer.

And I don't know what that now I realize that's probably gonna introduce some challenges at your end programming wise. Right? And I'm not sure. Unfortunately, I'm the wrong person to ask us to make suggestions on how to deal with that. But I think just, you know, all things considered, I think having the playground closer and having a walking path from the building to the playground that doesn't involve crossing active traffic, I think to me to me, I think that outweighs it. That's just my opinion. Easy for me to say because I'm not the one working with the kids. I understand that. But it's also I just just knowing what I know about traffic safety, I think that's kinda where I'm basing it on. So that those are my comments at this point.

Thank you. Missus Smith?

I agree with my fellow commissioners that this is a safer spot for it to be as far as trend you know, not having to take the kids crossing through traffic. And as far as screening goes, would it be possible to put a solid fence maybe like blinders or whatever so that they're they're not as aware that they're going past the playground. To me, this is the preferred location, but I'm not dealing with your concerns.

Councilman Menday?

Yes. Thank you for, first of all, for the revisions, but also for this your explanation. So gonna take my architect's hat off and put my amateur traffic engineer's hat on. Okay. Okay. But, actually, I have a question for you, mister Jones. Alright. So when I look at the aerial here you know, go back stay on the aerial. So there's a concrete road driveway there that then turns into where this you know where the playground is. Now, what they're showing here is though, you know, you'll drive around, you'll have to do some striping and that kind of stuff.

Yes. But even if you paint stripes on the concrete versus the asphalt, is that is there still a visual cue from somebody driving down that drive to then swing to turn into where now there's gonna be a playground?

Painted bollards every four feet. That's a that that's a pretty strong visual cue that that's not where you're supposed to drive. Right.

But you know what I'm saying is that we at the very least, I think you have to you know, I did a little quickie sketch. You'd have to do some striping, I think.

For sure. And I think that their site plan showed that.

Well, but I'm I'm saying I think you'd have to stripe it. Could you put this up on the for me, please? Thank you.

Oh,

yeah. Okay. So, yeah. You're right. They probably should add some additional striping in that area. I I would agree.

I'm saying? So that you're you're actually swinging around the the so I think there still needs to be a few things with that.

Yeah. I would I I think that's probably

So I think that's a good idea. So let's go back, to this so the drop off of the kids. So the the bus is coming in and so the two options end up being they they can be dropped in and have to go through that middle center entrance or the right now you're coming in on the eastern door.

Correct. We have two very different programs located within that building. And so the students that are on the left hand side of the building are middle school, high school kids, and they are more of an easy program. First, on the right hand side, we have kindergarten through fifth grade individuals with autism. And so we have two very separate.

Entrances and Yep. Yeah. You know, I'll just tell you that the you know, besides the fact that that was in a setback on the original, know, where you've located it and almost completely in the setback. My other concern with it was just that drive where you're telling me that the bus comes down, but cars can also come down and it's, you know, you're driving down straight into a parking lot or a Playground. Playground.

You know, it's not recessed away. It's just it's like it's right in the drive path of a car, which is what was one of my big concerns from that location.

There were ballots there, right, around it? And it's

I understand but you

know it's

still know there's the visual you know I'm coming down the drive that's the way the drive's been.

Actually, visually, from the place to the left, those apartments, you can't see it there where we're moving it to, which I'm happy to move it, if that's where you guys want. We're happy to move it there. You're going to see it all day. Mean, you're going to because now you're

free from I'm not going talk visually from the apartments. I'm talking about from a traffic standpoint, from cars.

I would agree I would say to you that this is a lot more out of the way than their traffic path in the new which is fine, if that's what you like. But I personally, if you ask me, I think the first location's a better location. But we can move it here. It's not a big deal either way. We just want to get it built and moved. So I'll do it either way. I just think that's out of the way. I mean, this here, the new one, it's just right in the middle of the way, and the turning, and the kids, and the help that they need to walk to the bus, or wherever they're going every day, I think is a lot more challenging. We did put it in a great spot, though. It's right by the younger kids, so it's easier to get to it, yes.

But for her needs, it's a little bit more challenging. And I would tell you that instead of her taking five minutes to walk a kid every day, it's going take her a half hour for each kid. So her staff is going to now, instead of leaving at or three, two when they get out, they're going be there till 04:30.

I follow that. Tell me how that would be

Go ahead and explain.

He's just talking about the transition phase again and how difficult those transitions can be. And sometimes those transitions, if it is related to a behavior with the denied access to going to the playground or things like that, that it could take up to an hour sometimes to be able to fully deescalate and get that student back to baseline and get them to a safe place to either transition onto their transportation for the day or get them transitioned and settled within the classroom to get back on track for the day.

Alright.

Yeah. Had mister Riddell had an idea too. Let's see if we can put it up there.

Well, I think someone I think brought this I gotta find the slide. Hold on. It's here somewhere. I think somebody had brought this up at the last meeting. And I know we've discussed this too, the space, the gap in between the building. And I know this had come up because we talked about there's just that small connecting piece. And then you see the greenery in between this wing of the building and then the main part of the building, which I think they're using that right now as the outdoor play areas. Isn't that correct? Because when I drove by there, I saw teachers with kids out. And you see where that large tree is. And could that be used as a playground instead?

Is that possible?

I don't even know where he's talking about.

The courtyard.

Oh, so go ahead, Ellen. Erin, sorry. Tell them about the challenge in the courtyard.

My concern with the courtyard would be the tenants that would the potential tenants moving into the next program as well as the windows and all of that. Increased security concerns with the breezeway as well as that side gate over there and just that traffic that we have a lot of foot traffic on that side of the building. So having students in that area would be concerning. We are making way with what we have right now and utilizing it with increased staff and attention. There are no tenants in the other building, so we have a little bit of lead way to take advantage of the weather while we can.

Is there an entrance on the east side? Top of picture. Could that be used as an entrance for your facility

or your classroom? You mean in the courtyard?

Nope. I'm sorry. East wall, which would be top of by the concrete drive that goes through.

I still don't know what you're talking about.

I'm pointing

to the right mean, I can't see your finger up there.

I understand.

I think there is a door.

Yeah. Go right up there. Yep, right in there.

Is there a door

on that side? Could that be used as your entrance and exit so that you There's no door on that side. There is no door on

that side?

To enter the building? No.

Yes. Okay. Just a question.

So Madam Chair if I may the so remind me again this your this school is you have other schools like this in other locations?

Yes Chancellight is Chancellight as a company is in 50 different states. They've been or I'm sorry. Chancellight is all over The States. They've been around for fifty years now.

Okay. Alright. So it is snowing out, so I'm not sure if you're gonna be using the playground this week. But, you know, I guess what a suggestion I guess I'd like to see what you've what some of your other locations how you've handled this playground. Yeah, playgrounds are other places.

So if mister Biddell be willing, I'd like to see some, you know, how how it's been addressed. Is it near the building, away from the building? How's pickup and drop off dealt with in other locations so that we can come because you brought up some questions or concerns that I think, you know, I and I I don't know enough about what the the, you know, the how the children will be affected by the look of proximity, but the the drop off is something that I'm not sure if that's resolved with this location. So True.

Yeah. And I guess just my I haven't given any comments. Just my comments, I mean, I did not think of what what you're dealing with. I understand now. But still, I don't think but you told me that location isn't good. What we think from a traffic perspective and safety isn't good. So where do we put it? I mean, I I don't know. I am struggling with it.

We could use your idea and put it in the middle. That's what you said in the beginning. Right?

Yeah. I mean, where the weight van is sitting in this image.

Yeah. So Like, right there. That's what I had also said. But then we watched your videos, because I was here last month. And so I watched it several times. And I said, let's put it close to the building. That's where they want it, so we can get it approved and get it moved. Because they're calling me every day, when can we use the playground, when can we use the playground. We're lucky enough not to have any tenants in the front building, so it works today. But we're actually getting ready to sign three or four leases with some doctors.

And they probably don't want to hear the kids going crazy. And I don't mean going crazy, but having a great time, was what they will be saying in the courtyard. So I'm happy to move it in the middle. Just take it, move it in the middle, if that satisfies everybody. And let's just kinda call it a day. And I'll put ballards on four sides, four feet apart. And let's just

Yeah. I mean, I guess in the middle, if you go around it, it's not that traffic going straight at it. I really the original location, I was really against. I did not like that at all. And I like the idea of it being a walk out to the building, but that's for not anyone with autism. Now I totally get that you're taking away from their education if you're making them transition. Your transition's taking three times as long. Mean, that's not going to work either. So I don't know. What do you think in the middle?

Well, let let me ask you this question. So if we did you know, because you're is there a certain shape this park this playground has to be, or can it be more, you know, rectangular than There's

a it's very I know a bit about this at my last job before working here. So there's fall zones that you have to maintain around this equipment. And so the design the equipment actually drives the the shape of it. The design is is by the equipment. Now they've already purchased the equipment. So whoever the manufacturer is will have to redesign something. Can it be narrower? I think it probably can. It's going to grow a lot longer. It's going to be an odd shaped thing with a lot of things in a row maybe.

Maybe not as efficiently spaced out. But I do think if there's a way to do that, to me it makes more sense if you can do it within the existing parking stalls instead of where you're impeding that like Mr. Del Reigno has pointed out. So you're not blocking any of the aisles like that. Of course, still have to be aware something we'd be cognizant of with the design is that you're going to have other cars parked where they could potentially back into it. So we certainly don't want that to happen either if it's going to be in the middle of a row somewhere. So how do you prevent that from happening?

And plus cars going back and forth on either side of you. You know, right up, know, here's here's the playground, there's a car right there.

Yeah. And those drive aisles are really not that wide.

The existing drive aisles.

Mhmm.

Yeah. That's probably Yeah. Have to measure to see. They have to be 24 feet and

They're less than 24. I have it in my notes. I'm thinking 20.

It sure looks

like that. Nineteen six or something like that.

Oh, I don't know how they're even functioning then if they're only nineteen six. You're talking about the the drive aisles. Right? Right. Not the length of the parking stalls.

Right.

Nineteen seventy.

Yeah. Yeah.

Alright. Bigger You 60 could have foot parking area.

I mean, where it is today, it's out of the way. You're not worried about traffic from behind there because you've the trees and you've got the buffer. We could put up a fence, if that's what you'd like. It of solves everything, if we just put the ballers up, put the fence up, and then solves errands, it's further away, the traffic is good. I know it's not the ideal situation, but for this, it kind of works for her.

So, it's almost 09:00. So I propose if the applicant's willing to table it for another month.

We're not moving it in the winter anyway.

I'm not thinking tomorrow. And what I would ask is Mr. Bedell does some research with the applicant in terms of

I would like to see what they have in some other locations and I think the applicant can provide examples of similar locations office parks retrofitting parking lots you should be able to I don't I don't know where the other facilities are. You should be able to find that and then just go ahead and email it to me. Alright. We'll make sure the Planning Commission has it.

Give us all a chance to digest the information that we've been given.

Do we want to have public comment real quick since?

Yes?

Yeah. Yeah. We

should. Just make sure I got everything.

Would anyone like to comment on this from the public? Okay. Seeing none. Did you just let the officer oh, We're first. Okay, you have something else you wanted to add, sir?

No, no, I'm good. Thank you for your time today.

Thank you.

We'll go

ahead and table that. I'm motion

to take

I would invite you guys to come see the school with Erin and see her And then you'd really know. If you guys ever have the time to do I can send you to Mr. Bodell her contact info. And I would tell you Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Seeing it firsthand is definitely different than sitting here

and Definitely. Looking at

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

Can we get a motion to table?

Sure. It's called the Chancellite.

Chancellite? Yeah. Site improvement.

Oh, here we go. Okay. Not my time. To table the Chancellite Site Improvements Playground And parking lot to the 12/01/2025 meeting. Second.

Roll call, please.

Belcon? Yes. Del Ragneaux?

Yes. Smith? Yes. Van Dyke?

Yes. Jones?

Yes.

Motion carries.

Great. Next item on the agenda is the center development plan. Believe that Thank you.

Yeah they didn't I was emailed something last week and obviously that wasn't enough time. Also it adequate to convey what the actual new design will I think it is actually more in line with what you want to see there. But you don't have the proper documentation at this point.

Okay. Motion to table the last center development plan to the 12/01/2025 meeting.

Second. Roll call please.

Yes.

Smith. Van Dyke.

Yes. Jones.

Yes.

Belcombe. Yes. Motion carries. Great thank you. Next item on the agenda is Westlake Community Campus Sign Plan.

Yeah I'll just go over what has changed as you're going to see this. So the couple things you're going to see that the top the sign is a little bit lowered about three inches lower because you're losing that that row of brick, the Running Bond. There's a Soldier Course under it so you're losing that. And then the bottom panel is getting a little bit bigger. So you're seeing that Recreation Center, Community Center there and the address all three are getting their own line.

The overall square footage of the signage it gets four square feet larger. It's a different animal anyways. It's a community identification signage so you kind of get to make up the rules with it. And so if you are able to move forward and with this it will it's not a modification it's a condition establishing the total sign area of each sign at 44 square feet consisting of a 24 square foot EMC and two non illuminated cabinet signs totaling 20 square feet. And then I threw a condition in there over the about that they don't exceed 7.25 feet in height as measured from finished grade because that's how they're designed.

I don't know that we really need to be that specific with the height. But I put it in there anyways. Thank Thank

you, Mr. Riddell. Would the applicant come forward, please? Welcome.

Kathy Clark, 1260 in Avon. Anything you'd like to add? Not really. Just we, you know, took your advice and made the changes. I think it does look better. It's a lot easier to read when you're going 40 miles an hour down the road. So.

Great. Thank you. Councilman Vindig?

Yes. So the only thing is the soldier course, it almost it looks like a roll lock. You know, it's meant to be the vertical. Right? It it would be a brick a vertical brick height.

Yes. Not a

not this way, it would be this way.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. And then the other thing is there's a 12 inch the 30 inch then the 12 inch recess and there's and then there's another 12 inches between the the between the sign and the edge of the brick is that what it it's also 12?

Yes. It does look that way. Yes.

Even though it does it's not drawn quite like Right. But it actually okay. So that'll be a little thicker

Mhmm.

Will look better.

So look better. Yeah.

Alright. So the only thing I'll just I'll just say this because I'm still thinking about you know, should it be as like, sometimes you have a soldier course and a half and then a half and a soldier course. You know, do we need a little more depth to make it look or is that and a part of it's like it's hard to tell because of the way it's drawn. So that's my only thing you can all debate along with the other things you're gonna say.

Thank you. Missus Smith, I think it's a handsome sign, and I look forward to it, to the changes.

Thank you. Mister Jones?