Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

That's industry talking to light industry industry. Right behind

you.

We are not commercial. Yeah, I filled it out. She knows how to do it. All right. Can you give us

Can you give us a few secure download a PowerPoint really quick and then we'll be able to Yeah, I know. We were supposed to do that last time. Yeah, I already did it. Well, we're doing it for the new people. I know. Yeah, me too. I I watch hours of stuff and then we I also have to go back here to do some stuff. items. We're going to we did receive a request to these gonna go a little bit more about that once we open it, but we will have to open public hearings and whatnot and then we'll have to make

but if these people are here and they want to speak, they can. I think that we didn't go too. Hello.

We're not talking about Heavy industrial request to the item. Oh, the heavy industrial. Yes. The first two items. So, we're not going to change from community commercials to light industrial and heavy industrial. They won't be. Oh, they're not just not reviewing it. Not today. They will be coming back in December with the different and I'm probably going to be I'm probably going to be away. would you still

um we we're I think let's maybe let's go ahead and start the meeting and then we might be able to shed some light on some of the questions that people in the audience are asking right now. Um if we start the meeting and kind of just let things naturally like what's going to happen and that might explain some of the confusion. Yeah. Though what I will say to address his concern I think we go ahead and we'll we'll handle that item. Yeah.

Okay. So, we are going to open up this meeting of the planning and zoning commission for the city of Sagenaut at 6:05 p.m. Again, they took my knocker, but we're open. Uh, and want to apologize to everybody in the room. It's Veterans Day. I was running a little late and um, sorry about being a couple minutes late, guys. So, uh, we are going to do a roll call to establish quorum. Uh, Vivian Anderson, place one. Present. Uh, Benjamin Guty, place two. Present. Peter Drole. Place three. Present. Melinda Julian. Place four. Valus. Place five. Present. John Hardy.

Present. And Daniela Fernandez second. Alternate is not present. Okay. Uh then we are going to go ahead and open up audience participation 1B at 6:06 p.m. Um and anyone in the audience that would like to speak about anything whether it's still on the agenda or not you are more than welcome to speak but our city attorney is going to make an announcement I believe.

So on actually I'm going to limit that. So, if we're if you wanted to speak on an item that's listed under public hearing, we'll save for that item. So, there's been a request on for item number one and two to withdraw that item from consideration tonight. They're going to come back in December. I understand that December is a high travel period. And so if anyone is here tonight that wants to speak on those two items um and won't be able to attend in December or is worried about being able to attend in December, if you would like to speak on those items, would you give me a little wave so we kind of have an idea to both of you? Um so we can handle this two ways. Um there is a training tonight. It'll take about 20 minutes to do. If y'all would like, we can hop up those items to go be before the training. Y'all can handle it. So, the items are going to get withdrawn

because we still have people here to talk on it. Let's go ahead open the public hearing, allow them to speak on it so that they can have their moment to speak on it since it was posted. And then the item will be removed without deliberation tonight. Um, and we'll just say on this item. Got it. That way when it comes back in the future we can the board can take the public comments into consideration but we are not to deliberate them tonight either amongst ourselves or with the residents. So because the item is posted you can deliberate it. Okay. I would ask that no action be taken on it because applicant is not here to present. Understand? Okay.

Got it. So, do I still kind of uh do approval of minutes and Yep. And then we'll go to the item number and u people in the audience are more than welcome to come up to it. So, um item number 1C, approval of minutes. The minutes are from the October 14th, 2025 meeting. Then chair, let's go ahead. I think we need to close 1D. We opened it at 606. Let's go ahead and close

I'm going to close 1B at 6:09 p.m. and then um now I'm going to open up 1 C at 610 p.m. This is why we're doing training tonight, guys. And um All right. Now, approval of minutes uh for the October 14th, 2025 meeting. So, let's see. Did anyone uh look over the minutes and see any changes that needed to be made or do I have um a motion?

I move that we accept the minutes as Okay. Do I have a second?

I have a second. All right. All in favor? We're going to vote. All right. And it looks like the motion passes to approve the minutes. Um, now we're going to briefly go to um section 2 section 2A, which is our PNZ training tonight. But um, as our city attorney mentioned, we're actually going to be doing that out of order. We're going to move that to later. So, now I'm going to jump to number three, uh, public hearing on 3A, consideration and action regarding a reszoning for some portions of the property located at 112 Spring Hollow Drive from single family SF3 to light industrial LI. a change from light industrial to single family 3 and a change from community commercial to light industrial and heavy industrial. All right. So, um yes,

it's Mr. Chairman. Just make sure that it's on. Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, this request is a resoning request from the property owner, Falcon and Distribution, and this is to accommodate for a land swap with an adjacent property. Mhm. Um just a little bit of background, they had originally planned to have their driveway located on Spring Hollow Drive and after um discussion with the neighborhood that's nearby, they um decided to change that over to a Macroy.

But to do this, they would need to own property along Maroy. So they approached the neighboring property and they did a land swap. So they are now proposing a driveway along Maroy and no longer going off of Spring Hollow Drive. And so this resoning would accommodate for that land swap. It would just be switching out um from community commercial that's along Maroy to um heavy industrial and light industrial for that driveway. Um, however, the applicant submitted a formal request today to withdraw this item and they will be coming back in the December meeting with a plan development. So, all of this resoning will be included in the plan development.

Okay, I understand. And so, at this point, I have some Yep, got it. Okay, so it looks like I have a audience participation form from Mr. Allan Grant. Uh, that references 3A. So, would would you like to come up to the speaker and if you could please um because we transcribe this and record this, if you could speak your name um and where you're from and to the speaker. Mr. Chairman, yes. Can we please open the public hearing? Excuse me. Uh, I'm going to open up public hearing at 6:13 for 3A. Now, you can speak, Mr. Graham. Hi, my name is Alan Gent.

Gent. I live at 212 Spring Hollow Drive, which is right behind the warehouse that they're building. And my main concern is I don't care where the driveway is other than the fact that I don't want to be having trucks going up and down my drive the the street in front of my house because I know for a fact they can't turn around up there. If they get in there, they're going to be stuck. So, but uh my main concern that I was actually actually reading this whole thing is are they planning on moving that forge build from the building at 304 Maroy to inside the warehouse that they're building behind our house? Because if they are, I would totally object to it because as loud as it is already in my house, I can just imagine what it's going to be if it's behind my house. So, and plus the vibrations and everything else is going on. So, I just want to put it on record that if they are actually planning on moving that forward, then I totally object to everything that they're doing. So,

I understand. So, at this time, um, we haven't seen the full plan development yet, and it sounds like the developer is going to come back next month with more, uh, proposals and more, I guess, uh, plans that everybody can see at that time. So, um I if that if that's what you're here to say, I appreciate you saying it. And um

well, another thing I have if they are planning on and I I'm going to put this as delicately as I can. If they're planning on keeping moving these meetings up until it's too late to actually finally do something because that's what this seems like is suspiciously strange to me that they decided to withdraw the meeting today and then they're going to move it up to December the 9th. Are they going to move it again on December the 9th? I can tell you speaking as one personally as a resident here in Sageno myself and also I'm the chairman now. I've been on this committee for three years was an alternate and then place and um meetings can and do change um sometimes.

No, I understand that but it just seems suspicious to me that they all of a sudden decided today to move that petition. Well, we got multiple veterans here in the room. I'm a veteran. He's very I don't Yeah, thank you for your service. Um, thank you for your service. You know, I don't know why cities have meetings today, but they are. But, um, uh,

I think we will know as residents and as a commission more of what the development will be next month when it's presented to us by the developer. It sounds like at this point they're withdrawing. So, um I don't know how much more in detail, um especially since the only thing that was proposed tonight was the driveway, not any other details. I don't know how to how to answer your other concerns tonight at least. Yeah, Mr. Chairman,

I will just briefly say um it was based off just what staff had let them know about their application. um because they're trying to request something else. The way that they were originally trying to apply was not going to be something that would show a hardship. So, the best way for them to do that would be through a PD. Um obviously, we will receive that next month. The only reason we're going to have to have it next month is because we will have to renotice it. Um, so you will receive a mail letter and it'll be posted in the newsletter again in December. Um, but we'll talk about it more in depth on December 9th and then December 16th will be that city council meeting.

Okay. I was just curious. But I appreciate it. Thank you again. Thank you. Take care. Um, you sure are you going to be available in December? Yes, I will be. Okay. Okay. And then now I also have a second form um for 3A. Um that is Mr. David Hannah. Uh would Mr. Hannah like to speak? Yes, he would.

Okay, got that. My name is David Hannah. 204 is it? 204 Spring Hollow. Ladies and gentlemen, not one thing, not one thing here is of any consequence in comparison in comparison to heavy industrial right behind our house. Mr. again told you if you if if you're on planning and zoning, you damn well ought to know.

Mr. Hannah, uh, really quick. I really want to hear you, but for for the rest of the city and cuz there's some people watching at home online and they can't, no matter how clear you are to us in the room, they can't hear you. If you're not at the speaker, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Okay. I hope they're all watching. You heard Mr. Gent mention commercial metal forming. Yeah.

Now, once this developer gets heavy industrial zoning, anything goes. Anything goes. He's got big lawyers. He'll bring them in from New York. The value of his property goes way up. Now, that warehouse is nothing compared to heavy industrial. Nothing. In fact, the warehouse, maybe it even uh maybe it even uh enhances the the uh uh living uh uh quality there because it it's kind of a barrier to the railroad. But and and Mr. Gent, I think, is the one who convinced them this developer Mr. Gent is the one who convinced them to turn the damn warehouse around. Turn it around and your loading docks should be facing the railroad. All right, but enough on the enough on the the warehouse is there. The developer had complete uh he had his his right with light industrial I guess to do that. Okay. Once you grant him heavy industrial look what ha what has the city done with this Mceleroy Boulevard here? It's not concrete. It's McAdam. I guess it's it's full of potholes. It's not wide enough. It's not wide enough for the heavy trucks that come in

that the heavy trucks that come in for heavy industrial like commercial metal forming. You've got to have the infrastructure. Are you willing to put up the money to get that road widen? You got to widen the road for safety and then you got to you got to uh pave it with concrete and so on. It's got to be reinforced. Of course, uh uh the the uh waste disposal. You've got big trucks coming in for solid waste disposal. Uh there's only one prop and maybe I'm wrong. You may know because you're you're the ones who were supposed to know. There's only one business on McElroy. Only one on tell me otherwise that has a respectable attractive front and that's banana box. How do you say

banana box? Unless I'm mistaken, there's no other business on McGroy to to uh spiff up the neighborhood. The neighborhood is a dump now. And heavy industrial right behind the houses. Look, I I I'm not going to say what you what what what heavy industrial does. You people know what heavy industrial does. You got to be awake to the fact that this developer this developer is trying to put something in there that will sink our residential our living our living uh experience uh uh uh in in Sagenol. And you all know how many residents have moved out of the neighborhood. Their houses are up for sale. And if they haven't sold them because of this what's going on here, they've rented them. So, we've got a neighborhood of renters. Now, I'm not saying that they're bad people. They're they're probably good people. Look, I'm going to I'm going to leave it. I cannot attend next month. I'll be away. So, Mr. Gent I hope will will will uh meet with you. And uh one thing I think I can do uh busy as my schedule is I think I'm allowed to write the planning and zoning commission a letter or am I not?

You are. And if you turn it into city staff, they can give you the email address uh or where to drop it off at. Um I believe up to a a certain length. we read aloud here in the meetings. Um so so any anything that you would like to say next month you uh city staff can tell you where to send that to or where to drop that off at. Very well. Thank you. Thank you. Oh yeah, my call to order. Thank you. Yeah, they took my gavvel away. I think I was too loud with it. All righty. Um Mr. Chairman,

yes. Sorry. So, we also provided a copy of that formal letter from the applicant and that is in front of you till today. We will have the commission vote on the approval of the withdrawal. Um, so if you want to So, first let's close the public hearing. Mr. Chairman, yeah, I'm sorry. I just wanted to based off the the questions that you all had right now, I just kind of wanted to clarify something. Um, but Miss Pina is going to be putting it on the board really quick. Give us one sec.

And um, city attorney, while they're doing that, do I need to ask if anyone else in the audience wants to speak or just these? Okay. While it's open, does anyone else in the audience want to speak on 3A? Okay. So, do I close the public hearing or do I wait for this? Go ahead and close. Okay. We are going to close the public hearing on item 3A at 6:24 p.m. I'll also just say for the record, I think I believe from listening to this audience participation that the testimony between 3A and 3B overlap very heavily. Correct.

Um, at this time, does the audience do you guys want to do you have anything additional you'd like to say on item 3B? It's it's a pretty comparable change. Well, it's just mainly we'll open if you want to speak. I have to reopen a thing or we'll open it for 3B. Sorry, the people in Austin are watching.

I just I wasn't going to have them open it if you weren't going to talk on it. So um now what we we're going to clarify a couple things once we get the PowerPoint working, but um I'll just make clear a letter has been submitted by the applicant. Um because we don't want to make a habit of applicants being able to submit items to the P&Z and then withdraw items at the last minute, we are going to ask that y'all vote on whether you're going to accept the withdrawal or not. Um we will acquies that they are coming back next month and um the delay seems to be out of a misunderstanding of what a zoning change would accomplish for them and they believe that the PD will accomplish more of what they were trying to accomplish in this. So um but we are going to ask that once we have clarified a few items, we are going to ask that you vote on that item. So we'll have a motion and some discussion on that. And again, it's you're not voting on whether to approve this. It's just a vote to approve the withdrawal of the item.

Do I need to read their withdrawal letter or no? Can I see it?

All right. At this time, I'm going to read a letter from the developer dated November 11th, 2025, city of Sageno Planning and Zoning Commission. Dear members of the PNZ Commission, on behalf of Falcon Commercial Development, I respectfully request to withdraw our case from the agenda for the PNZ meeting scheduled for this evening, November 11th, 2025. We appreciate the city's time and consideration to date and look forward to re-engaging with staff and the commission at a later date once we have finalized our next steps. Thank you for attention to this for your attention to this request. Sincerely, Walker White, Falcon Commercial Development. So, city, I believe you have a presentation,

Mr. Chairman. So, are y'all able to see this attachment on your screens? Yes.

Okay. I know that we can't zoom in, unfortunately, a little bit more for the audience. Um I'm sorry it kind of just disappeared. Um but I did want to put on the record. So we do have two separate zoning cases right for one for the Falcon Distribution Center and then one for Star Manufacturing. So like Miss Hernandez had mentioned they are essentially trying to do a land swap so that they could have that drive come from Mroy onto their property. that current triangle that I think that the gentlemen were referring to on the right of that. So on the corners by Mroy

Mhm.

So those are actually currently heavy industrial that has been heavy industrial for a while and what they're proposing is to actually reszone from heavy industrial to community commercial. So it would be a much lighter use. And then from heavy industrial to light industrial and they are not going to have anything on there apart from the driveway. So those two parcels right there will not be heavy industrial anymore. So it sounds like that's something that y'all are probably wanting. So that sounds beneficial. Um the only thing that is going to be proposed to be heavy industrial is this parcel right now. That parcel is currently community commercial. So because they're getting rid of these two parcels, they're going to be adding this to Star Manufacturing instead and requesting that to be heavy industrial. So that is the only parcel that is being requested to be heavy industrial. So it's not directly abetting the residential portion. It's just to accommodate the portions that are being taken from Star Manufacturing to Falcon so that they can have their everyday duties still within the new parcel. So, I just wanted to clarify that. If y'all have any questions, feel free to let me know.

Okay. Thank you, city staff. So now at this time um do I have um a motion to either accept or deny the request for withdrawal of the application regarding 3A? Can we can I ask a question about this? Yes, sir. Sure. When did we get this? Well, from the I know. Did they we get it tonight? Was it this afternoon? It's it was today, but it was after some prolonged conversations with city staff because to your point

in the future if somebody walks in 45 minutes before the meeting and says, "Oh, not coming after all." I don't I don't know what Mr. Chairman, how this is going to affect us, but uh Mr. Chairman, I did want to say that this is what staff recommends. Yeah, I um it sounds like the developer found out according to existing regulations that it wasn't going to accomplish what they wanted to do and so it was almost like they were forced to not not physically but that's kind of what it sound. Yeah.

Okay. So, if anyone else doesn't have um any other questions, do I have a motion to either deny the request or approve the request? Mr. Chairman, I'm going to make I'm going to clarify the language here. So, this would be a motion to deny the request to withdraw the item is what the motion that has been made is. Is that correct? Okay. Okay. Uh does he have a second? To be clear, you want to deny the request to withdraw? Yes. Which means we would be voting on

3A. Yeah. After the fact. So let me clarify. So if the request to withdraw the item is denied, we would then go on to deliberate the item um regardless of the applicant's presence. Um and then the item would go to council after that. If the item is withdrawn tonight, then that stops the item in its tracks and it will not go to council. Y if the item I make a motion to Okay. So we have one live motion to deny. And then does he have to get a second or

Yes. So we either need a second or we need him to withdraw the motion. So, it sounds like we were about to have something from you. I was not going to second. You were not going to second it. Okay. Do we have a second? Okay. So, without a second, we're going to say that the first motion fails and um formally we're with we're going to say that motion has failed and is withdrawn. Are you comfortable with that or do you want me to have you withdraw the motion formally? Doesn't it's sematics. Sure. We'll go over it in training a little bit. But so that motion has failed. We now still need a motion, a different motion.

I make the the motion to accept the letters of withdrawal. Do we have a second? Second. Motion passes. So item 3 A and 3B are now. No. So that letter only handled that motion only handled the first one. It's okay.

Okay. Now my mic wasn't on. So uh the motion passes. 3A is withdrawn. Okay. Now, we're going to go on to item 3B, consideration and action regarding a reasonzoning request for some portions of the property located at 304 East Maroy Boulevard from heavy industrial to light industrial and community commercial. Um, now I believe um yes, presentation.

Mr. Chairman, so we touched on this item briefly from with the previous item. This is the property that Falcon is going to um do a land swap with and this is just a reszoning request so that that portion of their land will now um accommodate to Falcon's use. Um however they requested to pull this item and that is also included in the letter that was presented in the previous item.

Okay, understand. And now, um, city attorney, I think, because one of these letter, actually, both of them, uh, mention 3B. So, now I need to open up a I'm gonna open up a public hearing on item 3B at 6:35 p.m. Does anyone want to speak on item 3B? My one objection to this and I guess it's not it's not really an objection just as an observation is because they're moving heavy industrial or to light industrial. Okay. Does that mean they're moving their heavy industrial any other place besides what's actually on this map? because that's what I'm foreseeing is about to happen.

So, as I I've learned in the couple years on this commission, we actually can we can only speak about the land that is up for consideration. But what I what seems to be from from the presentation on 3A from city staff and 3B, there is a plot of land that is being zoned down in usage and traded for a strip of land that's going to be zoned up in usage. um so that they can take uh as you can see from the image so that they can take away um I if any if any land owner in the city of Sagena wanted to change other properties they would still have to come before the commission. Well, the reason why I was looking at is because right now the metal forging place is considered to be light industrial, which in my eyes that's more of a heavy industrial because I mean it's like you can hear it for all over the neighborhood when they're actually pounding this kind of metal in there.

I guess just a question is the metal forging place that you've referenced now and before that's in 304 that's 304. So that's Star Manu Star Manufacturing. Got it. Okay, Mr. chairman. Um to answer that, if you see the exhibit in that screen where that cursor is, that's what's going to be proposed to be reszoned to hi. And that's just because those two parcels in the corner, that dark blue and the kind of like purplish. Yeah. Yeah. That's currently their property. And they're trying to land swap that with that property where the cursor is. And I I understand that, but what I'm looking at

that's the only area where the hi is going to be, but they're but what I'm getting at is they're considering themselves to be light industrial and that's the other property. No, but what I'm saying is right now they consider themselves to be light industrial because they're at 304. They do metal forging and they pound this the congre pound the metal all day long when heavy industrial 304 is actually heavy industrial already. Yes. Yes. And so the only basically strip of land that they're asking for is this strip that is red with green stripes that's kind of abudded up next to Falcon's future driveway. Okay.

So I just from looking at it, I don't I don't think that the the more heavier usage is coming like closer to like I think it's it's just a strip next to the driveway. Yeah. Well, the right there where that green is, if I'm not mistaken, that's where Spring Creek actually runs through because they actually had to build the road up over the top of the Spring Creek. Okay. To get into their actual industrial area. Okay.

But, uh, another thing that I have to go back and I'm going to have to go back to it is I still don't understand why they can't go to Minton Road because Mitten Road is right there. It comes right off. I mean, I know there's a watershed at the end of it, right before it gets comes the other end of the the land, but it just seems to me a whole lot more feasible. I know it's not probably not financially feasible for them, but feasible in our sense as homeowners for them to move all their vehicles where they're not coming through our Maroy Boulevard, which is already clogged with trucks 90% of the time anyway. Because when there's a train coming through and then the light is red, that traffic can back up all the way past those apartments over there. So, and it's almost impossible to get in or out of there unless you go all the way through a neighborhood. And that used to not even be possible until they built the neighborhood on the other side because there was only one entrance that was

phase three. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. So, yeah. Um, Minton Road, if I'm not mistaken, it kind of curves at the railroad and then come Yeah. So they would have to I've learned too over the years like it to do a railroad crossing it I mean you have to involve the feds BNSF you you know if UP has trackage rights on those you have to involve them and so I think um it's to extend the road across because it already kind of turns and goes into Macaroy it would it's just a it's a whole separate thing. Um

Mr. chairman did want to put on the record that they did reach out to someone who actually lives in the HOA who works for BNSF. Um so they put them in contact with them and they said that that it would be very highly improbable that that would be approved. So that's why they are exploring this Mroy because it would be more feasible. Okay. Okay. You just Okay. Well, I guess I spelled my piece, but No, no, no. Look, we all need to hear from people that live nearby and take everything into consideration. So, I for one appreciate you coming tonight to speak. Yeah. Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you. So, before you before you leave, sir, so I I know you you're just uh kind of like, okay, maybe Yeah,

it's it is what it is, but what do you how do you feel about the the explanation that just came from the city?

Well, I understand specific spot. just don't really I mean I'm not in agreement with it because of the fact that I just think Menton Road is a whole lot more feasible. It's just it's it's already an industrial area anyway. So why in the world would they put an industrial area on the other side of our property which is already going onto a major road that's already torn up anyway and making even more traffic and it's just it's going to be a logistical nightmare for everybody who actually lives in the neighborhood and anybody who actually travels up and down Marroy Boulevard on a regular basis. So, I just see a lot of problems coming up. And they were actually talking about putting in a light at the end of that road, and I just think that would be ridiculous. I mean, if you had a train going there and then you had a light on this end, a light on this end, you'd have nothing but a nightmare.

Talk to the folks on Bailey Boswell. They're about to get their fourth light in like a half a mile stretch. Um, and not I'm not meaning to joke. I'm just saying like I understand not wanting more lights. Um I I will tell you um so at the end of these meetings we always get like a staff report like a project update and they openly talk about and you can watch it on YouTube if you don't want to hang out to that point.

Um I went to a meeting a couple weeks ago at the new city library expansion and and redoing is coming. Um there are, I believe, five phases and they're doing certain sections before others because of how complicated the stretch is, but the whole road is planned to be done. And I believe the section in front of your um neighborhood and in front of this development is um I think it's part of phase like 2B or something like that. And there is information online about it. They had they had a big meeting at the library with maps and everything. Um, so it it is planned to happen. There are certain sections that have funding, certain sections the county is throwing their hat in on

and certain sections don't have funding yet, but um I know that that section is very important due to all of the businesses and residents around there. You know, I just see that there's no way D can see that they're going to be able to expand that unless they build up there because there's that lumber yard that was right at the end of our yard. I mean, our street actually opens up to a lumber yard and they have that gate right there at the end of the road. So, I just don't see them be able to expand it at all, but we'll see. I mean, it' be good if they could. So, but I appreciate it. Thank you'all.

Thank you, sir. Does anyone else want to speak on item 3B while we have the public hearing open? Uh yes just a word look that's the carrot the carrot is oh but residents we are going to convert heavy industrial to what is it going to be commercial or light industrial and community commercial

beautiful isn't it on mroy which is already a damn mess and a disgrace Once they get the heavy industrial behind the houses, be behind our houses, what's to prevent them from coming back and say, "Well, it isn't so bad. We need to convert, expand our heavy industrial." Heavy industrial is the death of Spring Hollow. The death. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Okay. Um, at this time, if anyone else uh doesn't want to speak on item 3B, I'm going to be closing the public hearing at 6:44 p.m. And I believe the city has something to say on item 3B. Correct? No. Was Okay, got it. So, this one was not withdrawn.

This it is. Okay. Got it. Okay. So, so that letter that you um that applies to 3B as well. So, do we So, we need a separate motion on Oh, got it. So, does anyone want to make a motion to either approve or deny the request for removal of item 3B? Make a motion that we accept the withdrawal of 3B. Okay. Do I have a second?

Second. All right, we're going to vote. While that vote is being tabulated, like to ask both of our speakers um so you are I know one of you will be here next time, but um there there is a online form you can submit to um that we that we'll read at the next meeting. Um we try to limit it to three minutes. So we didn't really do it this time, but if you can limit your written comments when they're spoken aloud to be about three minutes, that way we can make sure they all get read. Um and uh they'll be right at the next meeting during that public hearing.

Obviously, if you're going to be here in person, you can just show up. Okay. Uh we're going to go to item 3 C, consider the vote passed on this. It did. Yep. Motion passes. We're going to go to item 3 C, consideration and action regarding a proposed textural amendment to the zoning ordinance regarding modifying the city's permitted use table, automotive uses, medical uses, and commercial retail and service uses. and section 8-9 off-street parking and loading requirements of article 8 supplemental district regulations of appendix A zoning.

Mr. Mr. Chairman, so before you we have a textual amendment to amend the permitted use table. Today we'll be looking at three categories. So we as staff essentially are trying to go through the entire permitted use table and configure that to today's needs but we're trying to do that in phases so that we don't get overwhelmed with all of them all at once. So today before you you're going to be seeing the automobile, the commercial, retail and service categories briefly and the medical category. So this is just a brief synopsis of the automobile. We have a few different uses such as auto rentals, auto car washes, and park and red lots, but as the presentation goes, we're going to go one through one specifically. So we're going to go to the next slide, and that's just a addition of the remainder of them as well. So the first one that we have before you are auto auctions. So the way we structured this is the acronym for the zoning is going to be first and then it's going to let you know what we're trying to amend it. So for this one for the light industrial section we are trying to amend it from permitted with specific use permit to not permitted at all. Um and then for heavy industrial we are requesting to amend it from permitted by right to not permitted as well. Um so in summary for auto auctions if y'all choose to approve that as is they would not be permitted anywhere in the city. Do you all have any questions? So an auto auction

business would not be able to like if they existing if they own land existing in the city or if they bought land to to do that in the city. Got it. Yes. Okay. If they were existing today, which I don't believe we have any currently, then they would be legally non-conforming use. So they would be able to still remain within the city. However, if they were to switch tomorrow to something else, then they would no longer to be able to go back to that usage. Understood.

Okay. With the next one, we have auto car washes. So, for neighborhood commercial and community commercial, we are requesting to amend that from permitted with a specific use permit to not permitted. And the reason for that is we already have a lot of car washes and a lot of the community has shared their desire to not have as many car washes. So with eliminating that to not be permitted by right at all, we would completely eliminate any additions from being able to have a car wash. Currently it is by SCP. So, if they follow all 13 reasons and the city sees it as a compatible use, they do have to approve it. However, if they don't think it's compatible, they don't. Um, but with just eliminating it would not allow them to have it. So, that's that portion. However, with light industrial and heavy industrial, we're requesting to amend that for permitted by right to permitted with an SUP because we do have some cases, especially with manufacturers or, you know, distributed distribution. Um, where they might have a car wash with that distribution center. So, on a case-bycase basis, we may have those. So, if we allow those by SE, then y'all would have the option to request that be approved or not.

Are we going over this one? We're going over this one by one. So, I guess if I if anyone has a comment, we speak up at Yeah. So, I guess I would just let the residents that have kind of complained about car washes know that the city of Sagenol only has three car washes and one of them is at Fuel City. Um, one of my biggest pet peeves with my neighbors because, you know, I'm on this commission and I'm on my neighborhood's HOA is people come to me and complain about chicken restaurants and like half of the chicken restaurants are in Fort Worth. They're not even in Sagena. So, we only have three car washes and I'm not really a huge fan of government telling land owners like what they can and can't do with property that they like legally bought. So, I'm somewhat torn on that one. Um, but I do also understand that there are certain types of buildings that are built that cannot be turned into something else. If the car wash fails, what does that become? Same thing with like if a if a storage building fails, what does that become afterwards? So, that's where my kind of concern goes to with allowing one. That being said, they're already required to get a SUP. So, the only thing that we would be changing is them not even being able to come in front of us anymore.

Yes. Okay. I just wanted to speak that aloud into existence or neighborhood commercial and community commercial. Got it. Um, but for light industrial and heavy industrial, they would still be able to do that. Right. If Miller Milling has a fleet of 10 trucks and they need to be able to wash it on site, that's allowed if they come. Got it. Okay. But again, these are just recommendations. If y'all wanted to keep it as an SU, y'all are more than able to do so. Y'all would just need to let us know so that we can mark each one as we go. So, if y'all wanted to do keep the NC and CC as an SCP, just let us know and we can make that note in your recommendation. Okay?

And we can always also come back to items. So, if you know, six items from now you change your mind or you want to do something else, um we can come back to it or at the very end because when we make the motion, it's going to be kind of a complicated motion. Yeah. Um if you guys want to write down items you have concerns about, we can discuss them now or we can discuss them at the end. Okay. Um but that way when we make the motion, we can be very clear on what we're asking for. Thank you.

Okay. So, the next one is auto parts and accessory sales for neighborhood commercial. We are requesting to amend that from permitted with a specific use permit to not permitted. We did also have a print out of our zoning map for y'all so that y'all could see where our current neighborhood commercial parcels are located. So if you are able to look at that, you can see that the neighborhood commercials zonings are around neighborhoods, right? And that's the purpose of neighborhood commercials so that you could have some local commercial aspects to your neighborhood and not having to go across town. Um, however, the city of Sagenol, just because we're a little bit of a smaller in size, it's a little bit different, right? So, we have limited parcels. Um, when it comes to those neighborhood commercial, a lot of them are either undeveloped or they're in parcels where they're already in a busy corridor. So, we were just proposing to not have that allowed within NC so that we can limit the types of establishments that we have within the neighborhood commercial. A lot of our residents have shared that they want more mom and pop shops and things of that nature around them instead in neighborhood commercial. So, we would be looking at more of those types of usage. Um, within community commercial, we are currently allowing them by right and we are requesting to have those by SUP so that y'all could also see that on an case-byase basis so that we don't have an abundance of auto parts and accessory sales as well. So with that, if y'all have any questions, let me know. If not, I can move on to the next one.

So currently currently on auto parts on community commercial which is the the bright red it's currently allowed. So I so I know for example the UCD development that we get updates on every meeting. Um there's an O'Reilly's that's actually signed a lease there. Um, I don't I don't believe it's come before us yet, but if we voted tonight to to not allow that by right, then O'Reilly's would have to come and file an SUP in front of us to open up a second location in town uh in in red in CC at the UCD development. Yeah.

Yes. However, if they've submitted an application beforehand, then they would go by that, right? Okay. So they have submitted something. So we would automatically do with today's standards, not with if this were approved. Okay. Could be legal non-conforming, but okay. Once they've applied, they're frozen in time. Okay. Just wanted to Yep.

Did you have a place to look? Okay. Sorry. Okay. The next one is an auto rental car and truck. Um, for neighborhood commercial, again, when we're looking at the parcels that we have distributed around the city, they are smaller in size or they're abetting residential areas. So, we don't think that the car rentals would be appropriate or compatible with those areas. So, we're requesting to amend that from permitted with an SCP to not permitted. And then for community commercial, we would be proposing to change that from permitted by right to an SUP. And that way we are able to look at that on a case-by case basis to see if it's compatible. I know we've recently had one um and I think that's the only one that has come before us in a very long time. So we don't really see those that often. Um, but that would just allow us to be able to see if it's compatible with the existing neighborhood. The next one is an auto repair garage. So for neighborhood commercial zoning, we're proposing to amend that from permitted with an SUP to not permitted. And again, that goes back to currently the neighborhood commercial parcels with the exception of few are mostly abetting residential area. So, we don't think that residents would want to see an auto repair garage and everything that that usually entails in their backyard or in their front visibility. Okay. So the next one is auto sales new and used. So for community commercial,

we are requesting to amend that from permitted with an SCP to not permitted. Again, this is one of those uses that we really don't see in town currently. Um perhaps they've existed years before, but we haven't received anything recently. Um, we're just requesting that the community commercial parcels because we have such limited amount of them. A lot of our residents have wanted more sit-down restaurants or retail things of that nature and so we don't believe that the auto sales would be something that the residents want to see. So that's why we're requesting that be um changed to just permitted um without um li is there Oh, got it. Is is there auto sales currently in second?

Got it. Okay. Yeah. Um Alli and EI we're requesting to amend that from permitted by right to not permitted as well. Um, I know that in some of the heavy and industrial areas, you see that in other cities. However, we do have limited amounts of heavy industrial and light industrial. And so, we believe that auto sales is not going to be one of those uses that a lot of people want to see within our city. We have a lot of them that are in Fort Worth or different neighborhoods that surround us. So, we don't think that that's a current need, but I'll open that to y'all if y'all agree or disagree.

Carvana or the Carvana I believe is in Sagon? Carvana is in Bloomound and from what I understand it's actually more of like a way point. Um, they don't do sales there. It's like if you order it online or you order it at like that vending machine tower in North Fort Worth, they would they fix it up there and actually wash it, change the air filters and then somebody drives it to the local places. And before Carvana, it used to be Ugly Duckling and M um Drive Time, I believe, owned it. So, it's been a car site for a long time over in Blue Mound.

They were having a whole lot of problems with the car thefts over there for a while. Yep. And Mr. Chairman, um, someone has informed me that Mr. Hernandez has informed me that the Aelius has not subitting a formal civil or resoning or plat. They've only done a meeting request. So, we'll get with them and just let them know as well. But, we have let them know during a pre-development conference that they would need to do that. So, um, we actually do have one upcoming. So, we'll we'll remind them of that. Thank I just wanted everybody on the board to understand like, you know, if a business is going to open up a second location in the city, if that we were going to be changing that in some way.

And I do also want it to be known that just because if y'all were to approve this today, y'all could always amend it accordingly in the future as well. So if for some reason we did have a really cool corvana or something of that nature being proposed within the city, y'all would be able to have that come before yall and make that amendment if y'all chose to do so. Okay.

So the next one is auto service station light maintenance. Again, with neighborhood commercial, we're just requesting to amend that from permitted with an SUP to not permitted. And then for community commercial, we are requesting to amend that from permitted by right to permitted with an SUP. And that way for the community commercial, we can still have it, but y'all would be able to coordinate that a little bit more with the compatibility aspect of it instead of it just being allowed anywhere within the commercial. Our next one is bus, train, taxi station, or terminal. We currently don't have any. Uh so with neighborhood commercial and NMU, we're proposing to amend that from permitted with an SDP to not permitted. And for community commercial, we are amending from permitted by right to not permitted.

Okay, I'll go back to that. Um, so for this one, like I mentioned, we haven't had any currently or I believe in the past as well. So I don't think that this is a usage that is very compatible with us either, just because we don't really have the space for it. Um, when it comes to a a big train terminal is what we're looking at, not individual bus stops. So if we ever wanted to have individual bus stops, that would not be the same as a large terminal. Um the large terminals would be more so like the large buses being in a lot where you can take it and go um such as different ones that you see around. Okay.

Um it's I think I skipped the auto service station um the regular one. For neighborhood commercial, we're requesting to amend that from permitted with an SCP to not permitted. And for community commercial, amend that from permitted by right to permitted with an SCP. And that one's kind of the same one as the light maintenance. Again, it allows for us to be able to look at that on a case- by case basis, but it helps regulate not having a residential area have that right next to them for Sorry, the the bus terminal again. Did you say the the large bus stations? Yes, that's the and just refer refer.

Yeah. So, it would be more so like the greyhounds. Okay. Um of that nature. Um and again, we could always reszone this if we wanted to have one in the future. Um it would just allow us to limit the current heavy and light industrial areas or the um in this case for the bus and train it would just be NC and MMU NCC which are more around residential areas. So, in order to prohibit, you know, our our neighbors from having this usage be behind their property or next to their property, um that would just be able to assist them with hopefully being able to not have to worry about that. Okay. The next one is motorcycle sales. Again, this is something that we haven't really seen and it's somewhat similar to auto sales. Um, so we're requesting from neighborhood commercial to amend that from permitted with an SUP to not permitted and then from community commercial amending that from permitted by right to not permitted. Our next one are park and ride lots. So that would be more so um for example when you go to the stockyards you know how you usually park at a parking lot and they'll shuttle you from that parking lot to the main event that would be a park and ride lot. So for residential OP which is office professional professional neighborhood commercial and neighborhood mixed use we are proposing to amend that from permitted with an SCP to not permitted and that way we don't have these vacant parking lots being used to shuttle people around um for community commercial light industrial and heavy industrial. We're also requesting to amend that from permitted by right to not permitted. And that just allows us to not have these large parking lots

that are not being used for other uses that could be more beneficial to the city and the community as a whole. With that, going to just stop and pause and see if y'all have any questions about any of the ones that we have discussed. Okay. So the next one is a parking lot for commercial autos. Um we are also requesting for community commercial to amend that from permitted by right to not permitted and for LI and HI to amend that from permitted by right to permitted with an STP. Um, we do currently have a parking lot that I think it's park my truck that is on Jarvis that allows for commercial vehicles to be parked there. And so we do take that into mind when we have an existing business that has something of that nature that can benefit the city, especially because we have large manufacturing and distribution centers uh within the city. And so we believe that that would still be of use, but for community commercial, I don't think we need these large parking lots so that they could hold these big truck systems um when we really have heard that a lot of residents want more sit down and retail and things of that nature. So that would just allow us to be able to accommodate for those desires and needs. Okay. And the same thing with the parking lot for commercials. Those are would be the more larger trucks. Um for LI and CCC, we would be amending that from permitted by right to permitted with an SUP. And so that allows us again to have those on a case- by case basis. And now we have parking lot off premises. So, what that means is we have

a development and if they don't have a large enough space to have a parking lot on property, they may have a property adjacent or perpendicular to that property, but not necessarily within that lot. And that would allow them to have a parking space in a different area that's not that same lot. We currently actually do have some printouts of a letter of recommendation for one of the companies within city of Sagno that wants to expand. So DFW Plastics is one of the few businesses that have recently come to the city and asked them asked us to have and permit off-remise parking so that they can expand because they might be landlocked with their current property. they're not able to accommodate their current parking regulations and requirements. Um, for DFW Plastic specifically, if they have a property that's perpendicular to them and they're wanting to have parking on that lot and it make a $2 million renovation in the backside of their property that's existing. And so for scenarios like that, we are proposing that for OP, NC, and NMU areas, we amend that from permitted with an SUP to not permitted because again, those properties, those zones are closer to residential areas. So, we're not going to want vacant parking lots again near those. But for community commercial city facilities, LI and HI zones, we're proposing to allow them through an SUP so that y'all can approve that on a case-byase basis.

With that, we do have an ordinance referenced as 202317 that does not allow for off- premise parking. So, if y'all chose to allow that to be permitted through an SUP, we would also just be changing that language to let them know that they can submit an SUP to try to deviate from that. Um, but all of residential zones would still not allow for off- premise parking and that would include multif family. So, we don't have apartment buildings with random parking lots elsewhere. Um, but that would allow certain zones and certain industries to have that if they are landlocked and trying to expand. Okay. So, the next one is recreational vehicles for rentals. Again, we really don't see RV parks um or I'm sorry, rentals here um in the city. So, for community commercial, we're requesting to amend that from permitted with an SUP to not permitted. And for LI and HI, we are requesting from amending that from permitted by right to not permitted. Um, and again, that just allows us to help expand our manufacturing and distribution and other types of uses and limit the other uses that are allowed. And the last one for that is recreational vehicle storage. So that would be where you can actually store your RVs. Um, and again for LI and HI, we are requesting to amend that from permitted by right to not permitted. So I know that was a lot of different automobile uses within that category. So I'll open the platform for y'all if y'all have any questions or concerns in regards to any of these.

Yeah. Can we go back to the um the right share one? I think it's the right share. Five. Is it right here? Park park and ride. Park and ride. Okay. Did you have a specific question in regards to the park and ride lots? Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that we understand it again. Um, so this is this is lots that where people would just pay for park pay their park their car there and then they could car pull to somewhere maybe to work or

Yes. So this would be if for some reason there was a industrial or commercial company that wanted to shuttle their employees or visitors from a prop a parking lot to their property, that's what it would be. or if for some instance if it was allowed in city facilities, if we wanted to shuttle, you know, people from a certain parking lot to our city facility, that would be also an example of a park and red lot. Member visas, if you could speak into the mic. Um, we were having issues

turning on the report. Oh, it's on. It's just not close enough. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the explanation. I think I I think I get it. I'm seeing now that the community commercial and light li and hi they would need me from permitted by right to not permitted. So we would not have that at all

within those uses. Um we did also provide within our memo a synopsis of all of those within the permitted use table and how that would look like. And so for some of those, we are maintaining the permitted or the SUP in other areas that aren't mentioned for this. The ones that we're discussing today are just the ones that we're proposing to change. So for example, the park and ride lots are allowed within city facilities through SU. So, if we did want to have training grain and shuttle people from city hall to Willow Creek Park, we wouldn't be able to do that. Although, that wouldn't be the primary use, but it would allow us if we wanted to purchase something in the future. Um, but that would be the only one that remains the same on that line item. What about like a business like Trinity Industries, like the big um railroad maker over on Bailey Boswell? What if they hired another 500 employees and needed to park in the back of the Walmart parking lot or something and they worked out some agreement with Walmart, hey, we can use a hundred of your parking spaces like that wouldn't be allowed anymore because that's community commercial. Just I just want to speak out loud if like if I'm understanding it right.

So I believe Trinity Industries would be heavy industrial most. Correct. Yes. Heavy indust. But if that were to happen, we could always reopen it after that. Okay. So, if we wanted Trinity Rail to expand in that capacity, then we would be able to open that back up and amend it to either be allowed by right or through SU or not be allowed at all and keep it the same.

Excuse me. You could also on this item, if you were concerned about that, you right now it's not permitted, not permitted anywhere in the city once this change takes place, you could change it where CCLI and HIum allowed by SUP and just to be clear it's not the business where they're part so like in that example that I brought up Trinity is heavy industrial but they would be using the excess parking spaces in community commercial Walmart yes and and then they would shuttle to so and I'm just trying to work but it's where the lot would be yeah

you're correct it's where the lot would be where the lot would be factory or or warehouse got And I and also I want to make sure too because this was I think something similar to this was brought up the other day about our new restaurant um park that's coming to the old fire station where depending on how they lay out the lot, they might be short some parking spots, especially with things council was asking for. And so if they had worked out, which I think they're talking about doing, um, using excess parking in Sagena Commons, the shopping center directly to the south behind the Valero, like would they be allowed to do that if them and Sagena Commons were in agreement? Because that is that's all planned development and community that that's planned development is the site where the restaurants are and then community commercial is the site where the excess parking is. So would they be allowed to work out amongst themselves or no they would have to or is it not allowed or

Yes. So that would not be the park and a ride share. That would be the parking lot off premises. Okay. And within that parking lot off premises that goes back to us trying to amend it for community commercial which is what that PD has as a base zoning for that property. Okay. Um to allow that through an SCP. Then they would be able to apply through that with an SCP and that STP would come to the PNZ and to the city council. Okay. Okay.

Does anyone have any other questions or concerns or any changes that they want to make? Yeah. one one uh point on this. You know, the these are very interesting diddies here. You know, whether it's if I can pause you for one second. So, um for you to address the council or the board, we have to open a public hearing. We're going to do that at the very end of this item. Oh, okay. So, I'm sorry to interrupt you. That's I'm going to write you a letter. Yes, sir. Used to that. That's all right.

Okay. All right. Um, I don't have any other uh comments or questions about this. Um, if anyone else does, they can. Or we can open up for a public hearing. You want to do it now? You can. Okay. I'm going to open this up for a public hearing at 7:19 p.m. Would you like to speak, sir? Mr. Hannah, I believe. M.

Yeah. Well, these little diddies here, they're very interesting. And the young lady here says, "Well, you know, maybe the residents, you know, they don't want to have uh what do you say, a car wash or or recreational vehicles, you know, behind their residences, but just put it into perspective. You heard Mr. Gent talk about that. What what is that uh commercial metal forming? That's the killer. That's what kills a community. These things here, yeah, they're annoyances, but you put in heavy industrial, it it spells the end. Thank you. Does anyone else uh want to speak on 3C at this time? Okay, then I am going to close the public hearing portion at 7:20 p.m.

I do I do believe that there are more items to discuss in as part of uh 3C. Oh, okay. Uh so keep open the public hearing for now. Let's go ahead and close it and then at the end of it at the very end we'll reopen. Okay, cool. I I saw the chart at the end and so I thought it was done. I'm sorry. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. So, we have two more sections. Next one being uh commercial. Not as long.

Not as long. No, the next one. Next one being commercial retail and service including the um highlighted uses that you see on this slide. So, convenience store with or without fuel cells on the neighborhood commercial zoning. We're amending it from permitted by right to not permitted mainly because of the layout of our current neighborhood commercial parcels. Um, our size limitations, they're not strategically placed in a way where if we were to allow more gas stations by bright, um, it could potentially have a negative impact on the traffic flow for those residential areas. Hence, we want to not allow them by right and in the community commercial zone um to amend them by permitted by right to permitted with a specific use permit. We do have plenty of gas stations um as expressed by residents and then from staff's perspective. So, by having them with an SUP, it could allow us uh to minimize the amount of gas stations in the city and to approve them on a case-byase basis. Do we have any questions regarding the reasoning behind this proposal?

So on this it says I guess the part that is uh hang up for me is it says with or without fuel sales. So cuz the the thing that residents tend to complain about is gas stations. So if somebody wanted to open up a little convenience type shop, I mean, you know, like we're banning them in neighborhood commercial. So if there's like a strip center in a neighborhood commercial and it's like what makes it a convenience store? Like because it's convenient or like I'm being serious like you know what I mean? Like there's a clear delineation on like a tobacco shop like they sell tobacco. So, like what are we I mean would that ban like the like we have a new African store that opened up? Like would that ban future stores from coming in like that? A Mediterranean store or something like I don't know. I'm asking like or if Murphy has been opening up stations without fuel lately. I've been seeing them open up like little almost like Walgreens type locations. I I don't I just want to understand what we're doing. It is defined in your code. So, um we may need to clarify this definition some, but uh under your code, convenience store with or without fuel sales is defined as a premise where gasoline and/or other petroleum products are sold as a principal use. and in connection with the principal use, a convenience store offering for sale prepackaged food products, household items, and other goods commonly associated with the same.

So even though it says with or without fuel sales, the definition here really is contemplating in combination with Got it. Okay. All right. Cool. I'm good. There's a separate definition for convenience store, which is just a small retail establishment. Uh, usually located within or associated with another use that offers for sale convenience goods such as prepackaged food items, tobacco, periodicals. Okay. And other households. Got it. This is just the image to make it easier for us to understand. And that was just trying to coalesce down the paragraph into Okay. Got it. So, we're not banning convenience shops. You still have a tobacco store. You could still have a um an ice shop or whatever. Okay. But uh this is really for fuel sales. Okay. For Got it.

And in addition, we actually have talked to the city attorney about um whether we want to have regular convenience store and then just a gas station definition. Um but if we were to do that, we'll do that when we look at all of the commercial in more detail like we did the automobile. Okay. This is just one little aspect of it and then that'll come in the future. Okay. And then we just have one other thing. Yep.

With that. So yes, with that it would also be reclassifying uses and the other category which would be uh the following. So we would be switching it from commercial to the medical category including ambulance service, medic establishment and the other two listed because they're currently within that commercial category. Do we have any questions regarding that specification? We're about to Oh, sorry.

And Mr. chairman, we decided to try and change these, transfer them from the commercial retail and service to medical um just because these usage are more classified as medical. Um ambulance service, that's a given, right? Um when it comes to cosmetic tattoo establishment, just because we have regular tattoos establishments within commercials, some people do get confused on what is considered cosmetic would be more of an aesthetician type situation, which would be more medical. And then for massage therapy that's also under commercial and that would be considered more so medical especially if it's therapy based and then pharmacy I think that's a given as well where you know that would obviously more so fall under medical. Additionally, with um with the massage therapy, there's some state law uh regulated by the TDLR in the occupations code that treats massage parlors at the same tier that a medical facility would be treated at. So, it makes sense under the code to regulate them comparably. Okay.

And and this reclassification isn't changing their use designation. It's just moving them under the chart. a little it's a little more intuitive as to where they're found. Understood.

Within the medical category, uh having talked about the ones that would be changed to that classification, we would also be amending the uses within that category permitted by right from permitted by right to a specific use permit. So u based on state legisl legislature these have to have a consistent uh permitted use. So they either all have to be permitted by right or all by specific use permit and one of them was only through specific use permit. Hence we're um changing all of those to be permitted through that permit to go through approval on a case by case basis.

And this is just for the community to commercial zone. So, with that being said, I know that was a lot of information. Um, if y'all have any questions or concerns, we're going to open it up. And then, if y'all wanted to also open up the public hearing one last time, do so as well. I am going to reopen up the public hearing on 3C at 7:28 p.m. If anybody in the audience would like to speak on it, um you may come up uh and introduce yourself and speak. Um I guess otherwise during that time if nobody speaks then we're going to talk amongst ourselves.

Correct. Staff, were there any comment cards submitted on this item? Thank you. We can close it. All right, I'm going to close the public hearing on 3C at 7:28 p.m. All right. 29. My phone uh it could be 7:29. Yeah, my phone just changed. Whatever you said, it's fine. Yeah, my phone just changed. 7:29 p.m.

Okay. All right. So, does anybody on the commission have any like questions, statements, want to clarification on something? A lot of this sounds to me like we're just um tightening up definitions of things and we're moving some categories that maybe should have been in one category um to another um and kind of making better use of land especially close to neighborhoods. That's what it kind of sounds like to me. So, the two items that kind of drew the most discussion tonight um for y'all was the car washes and the park and ride lots. Um when you make your motion tonight, you can just say we motion to approve or me sorry. Um, we motion to approve the proposed sexual amendment to the zoning ordinance as presented. Or if the commission decides that they want those two items to be handled differently, um, you can say as presented with the exception of and you can modify those two items. So, um, it is up to y'all uh, after y'all deliberate a little bit more how you want to do that. I'll guide you through your motion, but I wanted to remind you that those two items did draw some conversation

for sure. Yeah, you know, I just Yeah, I I think I said what I said because that's the way that I feel. And I do think everybody watching and maybe watches this in the future should realize like I know a car wash might seem like a eyesore, but like that's a small business owner, too, and they probably mortgage their house to open up that car wash and like take a chance on business. And so, um, I'm a small business owner myself. some, you know, I work in the jewelry industry. Some people might think, oh, well, that's just, you know, fashion and we don't need diamonds and like that's not a good part of whatever, but um there's a lot of people in the world that probably eat because of my business, you know? So, um I just wanted to put that in perspective that I get it. It's a car wash, but like every business has a eyebrow raising aspect to it. Uh I eat chicken restaurants, even though we all eat a lot of chicken. So, just wanted, you know, Yeah, I think I said what I said. I don't have a problem changing um to what was proposed by city staff. Yeah.

But just to also comment, they always have the opportunity if somebody comes in and purchases land to make a request to us to have changes made. Correct. We're not we're not stopping people from uh wanting to develop here and uh make their business here for that specific

Well, the way that I understood it um was that car washes are not permitted by use in the city any longer if we accept this uh recommendation from staff on any piece of land. Was that correct? I mean, I know that two the the only two zonings that they're currently allowed on, we would be taking that away. Correct. No, I think the car for light industrial and heavy industrial, they need specific use that that's only for businesses. So, that would be like if um Trinity Industries has a fleet of vans. They can have they can power wash them in their parking lot. Oh, okay.

Yeah. That so that mean like the little car wash that we have here on the road that all of us can pay $5 and drive. Well, I wish it was only $5, like $15 or whatever it is and drive through. Now, that type of business is what we're talking about.

Yeah. I did have a question about that. Did we because I I mean the the point about everyone just thinks we have too many car washes was kind of funny. But do we have any reports about car washes like health reports or or things like that? Yeah, we don't have specific reports uh before us, but um so I just want to clarify that it wouldn't just be businesses. It would it could be a regular just car wash as well. They would be allowed in light industrial and heavy industrial. It would just require an SUP. So it doesn't mean that it's just the Trinity Industrial or uh those types of large industrial businesses. any zone that is zoned LI and HI, they could apply for an SUP to allow a car wash it. However, as proposed, they would not be able to request one in NC in community commercial zoning.

Got it. which which just so everybody clear that was talking about and again I'm actually fine with taking the recommendation for from staff but I if you look on our zoning map of where heavy industrial and light industrial is it effectively takes them out of the busy corners I mean look at where light industrial and heavy industrial is. I mean, I don't foresee somebody taking a SBA loan out on their house to open up a car wash on Jarvis. You know what I'm saying? So, I do want everybody here to understand like we are effectively banning them from coming on like the corner of Bailey Boswell and Blue Mound or, you know, Boas and Old Decar or whatever because we're taking it away from all neighborhood commercial, all community commercial. So,

and if y'all did want to change that to still be permissible by SCP on a case- by case basis, y'all can amend it to have that still.

I think where the confusion may be is the statement that staff made earlier. So, what y'all are doing right now is you're amending a use chart, right? Your permitted use chart and you're amending other language to accommodate for that. Once that change is made, the item can always come back and they can ask for you to amend your use chart in the future. That being said, once council has made a use chart, they tend to be there there is a an idea that like the council has spoken this is what the public wants. So it is there is generally some resistance to amending a use chart once it has been amended once before. Right? So those changes tend to stay unless there's something a really compelling reason for the use chart to be amended again.

So while it could come back if we decide we goofed and we don't like what we've done, we can always bring it back and we can amend the use chart one more time. But generally once a use chart is amended it tends to stick around for a little while unless it there is some big cultural shift that makes a change happen. So I think that might be where the confusion is. So we can make the change right now where an SU happens an SUP is allowed instead of it not being allowed at all. An SUP is much easier for to be granted. You have the reasons and then you have a compliance with the the city plan. Um but amending the chart itself or reszoning the area is much more difficult. Okay.

Excuse me. Does the term car wash include the self-service car washes? Yes, sir. Are these not automatic car washes that we're talking about? I think we only have one auto car wash you definition. Yeah, it's just like a broad term and um I don't know. Oh, it includes hand operated facilities. Yeah. Yeah. So, it would be the self-service ones, not

like as a resident, like I get it. Like I I mean, you know, like we live across the street from Fort Worth in our neighborhood and I remember when a couple of businesses that aren't like the best opened up on one of the corners across the street. It was in Fort Worth, but I was like, h like there goes property value and traffic and all that kind of stuff. I get it. But I also just, you know, I I don't generally like picking on certain categories of businesses to make it more difficult for them to do business. So, I don't know. But but there is a time and a place for everything and real estate is location, location, location. And we are um limited on how much uh real estate we have. And so we do need these table updates. It's 2025. Some of these things should have some several of these things I think should have already been on the table and so that's why there's so many for us to look at tonight because they need to be adjusted. Yeah. Okay. Um I think I' I talk a lot at all these meetings, so I think I've said enough. Does anybody have anything else to ask or question? or um if not, do I have a motion? Uh if we're not making any changes to to any of this um to either approve the request um or deny it. Um

I make the motion to approve the request 3C to go forward with the proposed textual amendment to the zoning ordinance. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. All right. and we're gonna vote. All right. And looks like the motion passes um to approve uh the table update as suggested by city staff. All right. Now, we're going to go to number four, a staff report for a project updates. We do 2 A. Yeah. Oh. I'll go quick. I promise.

I'm sorry. 2A presentation for training. We were we were trying to get out of here. Yeah, we'll get I'll go fast. I promise I'll go quickly. Um I I can do it. Do I have to do something to make it go up?

Okay. So, um I'm going to burn through this once it's up, but we're going to do open meetings. We're going to do a little bit of PIA and we're going to do conflict training really quickly. Um at the end I'll do a little bit of um procedural rules. It's on my PowerPoint, but I'll just burn y'all through it. I think y'all pretty much know it at this point, but we'll hit it just to make sure everyone's good on it. This is the same training I give every year, so if you were here last year, sorry. Um it's a good reminder, but um essentially cool. All right, y'all are a PNZ. That means you're a governmental entity, right? That means you're bound by certain uh statutes in the government code. The main thing that we see, and we talked about it briefly last time, um is that you are bound by the Open Meetings Act. What that means is the only items that y'all can deliberate once you are in a quorum are items that are posted on the agenda 3 days, three business days in advance. Previously, we would say 72 hours in advance. That law has changed. It is three business days now. That means things have to go up much earlier. It doesn't have to be in your packet, but it has to be posted in a way that the public can understand what is going to be discussed. So, it can't just say motion to discuss zoning or ordinance to discuss changes to um commercial areas. It needs to be specific. It needs to have, if it's going to be an area, a location, it needs to have a land description or an address. A lay person who knows nothing about zoning needs to be able to look at the item and understand what's going to be discussed. That is how a public a member of the public is apprised and given notice. So, um, a quorum can't have deliberations outside of a meeting about the business of the commission. A quorum for your PNC is a simple majority. So, it's going to be three

people. We do not count the alternates in that. Well, we do if someone's missing, right? Technically, your alternate doesn't count into your account until you've counted your other members first. Um, I think I hit it later, but I'm just going to do it now just in the interest of time. When you are in, and we had a discussion about this last time, so I want to kind of hit it. Do not create group chats with each other where you discuss zoning matters. that group chat even though it's electric electronic message is a quorum right do be careful if you are all responding to Facebook posts or net posts on next door um do not allow you know alternate two to text every single one of you asking how you feel about something if you think you're being surveyed on a zoning item don't respond to it daisy chaining also counts as a quorum even if you're not all in the same group chat. If one member is surveying the other members to see where everyone stands on something, you're you're deliberating on an item. So, please do not do that. That is the violation we see the most and that is what gets people in trouble. Scheduling is one of those things that really shouldn't be an issue. Um, but when South Lake ISD got in trouble a couple years ago, it was a scheduling discussion tied to a uh, what do we do about this guy discussion, right? Not even really commission business. Um, but because it had to do with the membership of their board, it got them in trouble and it's a criminal violation to violate the Open Meetings Act. Tarant County is one of the few, it was a the previous DA, but Tarant County is one of the few counties that has actually pursued Open Meetings Act violations. So, don't do it. Um, just be

careful about it. If you have questions, just don't involve yourself in the group chat. Just because you're stuck in the group chat doesn't mean you're committing a violation. You have a defense there. But don't reply to it. If not, to say, "Hey, cut it out. We can't have this conversation." and to be just so everybody on the board understands. So, but I can like send his business a Facebook message and say, "Hey, I want to rent out your your business or I want you to take my family photos, but we we cannot talk about upcoming or previous items on the agenda. Um, but that doesn't mean we can't happy Veterans Day or or whatever touch with each other. You can't deliberate on zoning items."

Yep. I just wanted everybody to know you shouldn't have a group chat that even before the item has come before council or even been applied for, you shouldn't have a group chat that says, "Man, we really need to get that guy to have a permit. Um, man, that guy's place is a dump. We really need to get um, you know, a variance put on that because it's his fence is too tall, right? So, don't don't be if you want an item to come in front of the P&Z, email staff. Don't message each other on it. where if you do only message one person and even then please don't do that. But technically if you don't have a quorum you're not violating the act. Right. Got it. But there's always the concern if you're messaging one person that they might message someone else and you've accidentally created

then it becomes daisy chaining. Got it.

Right. So um conflicts. I'm just going to burn through this. If you or your brother or your sister-in-law or your dad or anyone who is within two we call it it's it's called it's your bloodline. Anyone who is within two degrees of you owns a business that is coming in front of the board. You need to put your hand up preferably before the meeting is even called in so I can get an affidavit to you and you can recuse yourself from the item. You should not be involved at any point in that item. Whether it's their application, whether it's talking with people ahead of time, whether it's campaigning for an item, if it is your someone who is in your family, you need to not be involved in an item whatsoever. I will ask you to leave the room when that item is being presented or deliberated. The Open Meetings Act only requires that you not be involved in the item, but I don't want anyone making faces in the audience. I don't want um there to be any possibility that someone says, "Well, they only voted that way because so and so was sitting in the audience." So if you have a substantial interest in a business that is distinguishable from what the rest of the community's effect would be on it, right? So if it's Oh, y'all don't really let fast food places in. If someone, let's say you're opening a car wash, right? We're talking about a lot. If your brother was opening a car wash, the effect that that is going to have on you and your livelihood and your family's livelihood is far different than what it's going to have on the guy down the street. Right? If the property that is being reszoned is your neighbor, even though it's not your bloodline, I'm going to ask you not to talk on the item because that is having an effect on you, right? That's affecting your property value. Your

spouse can come up and chat if they want, but I'm not going to let you talk on the item because it is directly affecting you. If you get that 200 foot notice, one of you gets it about a item being reszoned in your neighborhood, you will most certainly have a financial interest in that item coming in front of you. There are certain items um the big example we have on this is oil. If you live in Midland, Texas, and an oil manufacturer is coming to town, you can still vote on the item because everyone in that town is involved in oil, right? So, the effect on the public is very similar to the effect it has on you. I don't know of any items in Sagenol that fall into that definition, but if it comes up, we will be aware of it and we will tell you that you can still deliberate. But in general, you know, if someone's opening a Chick-fil-A and it's your spouse, you're not going to be able to vote on the item. And I think that makes sense.

Mhm. Right. That's 171. Um, there's more.

We've lost it, but it's okay. I'll just talk slowly. Um, technically there's statutory cut offs for this. The AG doesn't care about these cut offs. The AG is like, "Yeah, of course you have an interest in this." And that's that's the standard we're going to go by. I'm not going to sit there and go, "Okay, well, how much what percentage of the board does your vote represent?" Like, if you have an interest, you have an interest. So, obviously, if you're a stockholder in if you have 25 shares in Chick-fil-A, that's not a conflict, right? If you own 10% of Chick-fil-A, that's a conflict, right? So that's

if you if you own stock in the company that's in front of us and you have concerns that maybe at the board meeting you said some things you shouldn't have said at the stockholders meeting. Let's have a conversation about it before the item comes in front of us. If at any point during a meeting you look up and you go, "Oh, that's my cousin, right? Or that's my brother-in-law's cousin." Right? Just raise your hand, let me know. We're going to pause the meeting and we're going to have a real quick chat. You're not in trouble. There's no reason you would have known, right? It's removed enough. But we are going to have you sign an affidavit and have you probably remove yourself from the conversation at that point. It just depends on how much knowledge you know and how close of a cousin they are. Right? If you have 800 cousins who live in Sagenol, probably not as concerned. If you have three, a little more concerning, right? So, um I'm not going to hit these one by one. If you think you have a conflict, you probably have a conflict. Raise your hand. Let me know. Um, real property, same thing, right? If it's your neighbor's property, if or if this property backs up against your jewelry store, right? If if it is in the same center as your property, you probably have a conflict. You probably shouldn't be chatting on the item. Um, so do not involve yourself in that item. Let me know ahead of time, right? father, mother, son, daughter, spouse, spouse's father, mother, son, daughter, ex- spouse if still living of the of the child is still living. So we still say cousins, step kids, all of that. Technically, the statute is more limited than that. The appearance of a conflict we have found in litigation is just as bad as an actual conflict. So let's be ultra. My job as your lawyer is to advise you of any liability. Let's distance ourselves when we can.

Right? So, abstain from any participation. Let me know. I'll get you a waiver. Um, we'll sign a waiver. The waiver is actually under 175. Uh, that waiver basically shields you from liability, right? We'll sign a waiver. We'll get you removed. We won't you won't face any consequences for being involved in it. All right. So, um, moving past that as quickly as we can. And I am flying, y'all. This is like a 35 minute training. I'm going to try to do it in like 15. So, if you have questions, email me. This PowerPoint is on uh the website, so you can review it. But as a PNZ, you have two roles. You have zoning, you have plotting. You have lots of things you're supposed to be doing as well. Um, but your job as a PNZ is to make recommendations, right? For plotting is to approve it. I'll tell you right now, it's administrative role. You're just going to approve plats as they come in. But your job is to assess what the community wants or what staff is representing to you the community wants or what the council wants the community to want and it's to make recommendations to that council. While I have you guys just motion to approve all the time just for ease of access, technically your motion is a motion to recommend the approval. Right? When things that you guys pass come in front of the council, the council is saying is told the PNZ has recommended that you approve this. Staff has recommended that you approve this and the PNZ agrees with staff. Right? And then they'll be told the P&Z had the following concerns and those concerns are either in their packet already where they can read them or they are presented at council. So what you were doing here is it's a chance in a smaller venue with a specialization on zoning to assess the application, right? And do what you can with it, but it's always to

make a recommendation. Um, right. And some people find that a zoning meeting is less intimidating than a council meeting. And it's certainly a shorter meeting than our council meetings. So, um, zoning, right? We have a comp plan. Your, that's what your big zoning map is. Your job as a PNZ member is to look at this comp plan and try to make things fit within your comp plan. Right? That's what your use chart is. That's what all of your zoning is. It's to look at something and say, "Okay, at some point we made this big old plan for how the city should look. Are we moving away from what that plan looks like and is that a good thing or are we moving more toward what the comp plan is asking us to do?" Cuz sometimes we look at comp plans and we go, "Oo, why did we put heavy industrial right next to single family?" And sometimes we look at it and we go, "Oh, we should, you know, we we like we should make that change." Sometimes we go, "Oh, well, clearly we want this to happen. Everything in this area is non-conforming right now. We shouldn't allow the non-conformances to keep continuing. We should be moving toward this being commercial or single family or whatever." Shar, did you have a comment?

Or sometimes single family butts up against industrial that's been already been there for 50 years, but

Right. and we maybe don't know why we zoned it that way in 1970, but we did and now it's in front of us again. So, um, we have a comp plan. It has what at the time of the comp plan the council decided they wanted to be occurring in their city. That's very common when you look at a city's comp plan that it is very um it may not look anything like what the city currently looks like. It is it's a wish list, right? It's a wish list where they have looked at something and said so for example in Sagenol like we're a train city, right? We've got the the grain um where the people came in and said actually we really want this to be more family oriented. We want there to be more housing, something like that. And so things have been implemented that may or may not make sense now, may or may or may not have made sense then, but we have to assess it. Your job is really to try to go along with the comp plan unless the council has shown you that they don't want you to follow the comp plan, but the comp plan is always supposed to be in your in your vision, right? You have your zoning map, you have your regulations. Um your regulations are your textual ordinances. Your zoning map is your map. All familiar with that? Okay. So there is a presumption that your zoning is done properly. There is a presumption that you have have done what you are supposed to do when things come in front of you. It's unconstitutional only if so you'll see if you ever look at the ordinances that council passes. There is a whereas clause that says the council finds that this is in the health safety and well in furtherance of the health safety and welfare of the community. As long as

that's true, as long as there has been a finding or a thought or a hope or a dream that this is going toward improving your community, your zoning is valid. Right? If zoning is passed to target a protected class or a protected group, we see it most often happening with fair housing issues. Some of you have been on the chair on the commission long enough where someone will say something and I'll unmute and be like, "Oo, we're not going to consider that. We're not going to consider the race of the groups that might be moving into this apartment complex. We're not going to consider the financial status of these people that might be moving in." That is me stepping in and reminding you of the Fair Housing Act. So, you cannot zone in an attempt to remove a certain type of person from your city, right? And that's what this is getting at. You cannot be arbitrary and capriccious in how you zone. When you pass a zoning regulation, you need to attempt to regulate everything in that class, right? So, you can't you know, not allow any gas stations unless like you can't deny 15 SUPs for gas stations when uh someone of one nationality is asking for it and then when a white guy comes in, grant it, right? That's going to raise some flags if you're doing that. Now, they may have some reasons. You may be like, "Oh, well, it's in a better area or whatever." It's going to start raising flags if you keep denying of one race, right? So you can't be arbitrary, you can't be capriccious. Everything you do needs to be in furtherance of the health, safety, and welfare of Sagenol. As long as it is, your zoning ordinance is presumed constitutional and valid. Bless you.

Uh yeah, when you are making zoning changes, you should always be looking at the master plan. You should be looking at how things are zoned. You should be looking at again these buzzwords of this public health safety, morals or general ware welfare of the community. Um I don't really use morals in my ordinances. Um statutory language is just public health safety and welfare. Um morals is kind of outdated language, but you can use it. It's the same stuff, right? I I fear that morals uh implies more of a religious take on ordinances, so I don't use it in mine. it. Um, consider the suitability of the land and consider what's around it. Maybe if we have an area that is all houses, single family housing, we don't allow a zoning change for a car wash in the middle of it, right? Because we consider everything around Sorry, we talked about car washes a lot, so it's on my on my mind. Um but um you know look at how it's going to affect the neighboring properties. Look at what makes sense. If you have ever been driving in Houston and you're like ah factory Houston has no zoning laws, right? So constantly in Houston you come upon things that are just bizarre and don't make any sense at all. Um in a city that has zoning laws.

So think about what makes sense. Think about look up the uh the Coca-Cola can house if ever you want to see Houston zoning laws. It's a real thing.

Yeah. Um, okay. So, I am going to hit these really quickly. When you are making a zoning decision, there are these things are set up by statute as things you should consider. The main thing that we hear about in uh from the public is their property value. Uh, but you should be looking at density. You should be looking at traffic. you should be looking at um fire issues at circulation of air and light isn't as common these days as a concern, but that's a real thing, right? If you if you have things that are too dense and no sunlight can come in anymore to the parks, that's a concern. Um much more of a concern in skyscraper lands, but um these are the items you really should be considering. Property value is going to be what you hear the public yell about the most. But it is appropriate for you to consider that, right? If you're going to introduce, I don't know, an apartment and there's concerns that the apartment's going to crash the value, it generally doesn't, I'll tell you. But, um, you know, if the public is concerned it's going to crash their value, or if heavy industrial is going to crash their property value, right? That's a genuine concern that you can consider when you're approving or disapproving of zoning changes. uh more neighborhood boundaries, right? We see that less as a true consideration as neighborhoods get smaller and bigger, but you know, if you have a neighborhood and slowly it's been getting reszoned commercial and it's eating away at the housing and they're tearing down housing, that's a concern, right? And that's a legitimate concern. Um future land use. So often you have your comp plan and you have a future land use plan and you're moving from point A to point B. You can consider what you want your your city to look like in the future.

Um we don't have a historical use board here, but if you have some place that's historical and you think it should be preserved, that's a a legitimate consideration, right? Oh, we really like these old uh you know, Blackstone buildings. You want to keep them. That's a a consideration. Um, environment also a consideration. That's what I hear the most with car washes actually is people being concerned about the water recycling. Um, I cannot tell you y'all, car washes are such a big item in other council meetings. I've had so many I've learned so much about car washes in the last three years of my life. But, um, yeah, environment is a big thing. Okay. So, um, you can consider other stuff, but as long as you can tie it back to the health, safety, and welfare of your community, it's okay for you to consider it. Great. When you have zoning, you have straight zoning changes, which is the most common thing we're going to see. You have your SUPs, which um we've talked about a lot tonight. Um and then you have your uh PDS. PDS are kind of a unicorn. They're a relatively new thing in zoning, but we'll go through them really fast. When you have a straight zoning change, someone comes to you and they say, "I'm currently heavy industrial and I want to go to light industrial." That's it. That's all the conversation is, right? They You can't set conditions. They can't tell you, "Oh, don't worry. I'm going to put I don't know an Amazon I don't know. It's light industrial." Pretend Amazon's light industrial. I'm going to put, you know, this factory in. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what they're going to put in. that promise can be broken immediately. Those promises aren't binding, right? You can't set conditions. All you are doing as a PNZ is going okay sick. Currently, this is hard and or heavy industrial. I think it makes sense with our comp plan, our zoning plan, the health and safety of the community, the

environment, all of those considerations for us. Oh, actually, we're going down on the usage other way. light industrial to hard industrial, you're going to be going down on the ladder. So, light to hard. For whatever reason you guys decide that it's a a thing that makes sense with that zoning area, maybe everything around it is already hard. Maybe it's on the outskirts of the city and you don't care. Um, you can just say yes or no. You just approve it or you don't approve it. There's no additional, you don't really care what's going in there, right? Because they could change it tomorrow. Um, they just you just say yes or no on that. Straight zoning is super easy. It should be pretty quick normally. SUPs. An SUP is like this use chart that we've just been working on. It's when a use is not allowed by right in an area, but they are allowed to come to you and say, "Hey, we actually think it's a good thing for us to have this use here, and here are the reasons why." The application in Sagena will make them justify why they think they need to be there. Those of you who've been on the commission long enough will hear me dragging them through their elements to try to make them meet them or not meet them. Sometimes it doesn't matter how you phrase the question to them, their use will not meet the elements, and there's just nothing you can do to fix it. Um, we see this most often with something like auto sales, which I think we just did away with, but um pretty common in other cities for someone to want to sell cars or something. It's a very common SUP. It's very uncommon for it to be helpful to the community to have a car lot. Um not that it never is, but that's the one

I see the most in other cities is car lots um trying to come into your city. So um but as an SUP promises are real, promises are binding. You can set conditions on it. So you can say great you can have this SUP but you need to have a 20 foot setback because I'm worried about the school that's right there or um you can have you have to have certain screening requirements or tree requirements, right? Um or plant plant foliage requirements. So you can set boundaries on an SU in Sagena in the state of Texas. They do have to submit a site plan ahead of time. So you are going to get a chance to look at it and see what's going on. And that's where you can really set restrictions on things. The one thing you cannot I don't know if it's in this PowerPoint, but the one thing you cannot consider is building material. We used to be allowed to regulate that. We can still regulate the aesthetics, but we cannot regulate the building material. It makes it very hard to regulate the aesthetics if you can't regulate the building material, but that is um what your legislature has decided. Um site plans, this really isn't as much your concern. Um if staff tells you the site plan is sufficient, the site you can believe the site plan is sufficient, right? Um, but you do have rules about what your site plan needs to have and not have. Okay. PDS. PDS are weird. A PD basically goes, we're going to come into this area and we're going to have something totally different happening here. Often it's a mixeduse thing. Often it's we're going to have commercial on the ground floor and apartments above it. or it's a way for a group to come in and completely

change what the zoning ordinance requires or the building code requires for a certain type of zoning because that area is now zoned PD. It's not zoned single family or CC or neighborhood commercial or whatever. It is sort of a unicorn development that's going in. It's not uncommon. More and more developers want to have a PD instead of just wanting to come in and use the zoning that's already there because it allows them a lot more freedom when it comes to setbacks or screening or the height of their fences or how much parking they need to have. Right? So, it allows them to make lots and lots of changes. You can set besides building material, you can set pretty much any restriction you want on these guys. Normally once a PD has come to y'all, it's because the developer has worked pretty closely with the city already and we have an idea of what they're going to do. But and they've already negotiated a lot with the city, but that doesn't mean you can't come in and say, "That's crazy. Why would I let you put a stadium in the middle of Sagena?" Right? or a I don't know sports training facility I think is a really common PD we're seeing in other cities. So PDS are crazy PDs whenever you get them you just kind of need to look at them as a brand new thing. You can still take into account the zoning of the area around it. Right? All of your other considerations are still there. Your health, safety, welfare of the community is still your main consideration, right? Is this furthering your comp plan? But it's going to look by nature, it's going to look a little different than the surrounding area

because there is a reason they're asking for a PD. Maybe it's as simple as they just don't want their fences they want their fences to be higher, right? But more often it's going to be that they want a weird use to happen there.

Yeah. I've noticed a lot of the PDs we have in town, it's because they want to have multiple types of housing. So, they will have um like single family homes and then single family like rental town homes and then apartments and then maybe like a strip center retail. Um, so, so usually it's because there's like a combo of things happening and rather than having zoning for each one and maybe that each one has to have different fences and stuff, it's just easier to say, "Hey, this whole thing is this." Yeah. So, what's very common is for you to have some sort of anchor retail um movie theater or um again what I've been seeing most often is those like gymnastic studios like those sports training facilities as the anchor and then they put a hotel next to it, right? And then they put some expensive town homes on the perimeter and then maybe on the edges they have single family in a park. So, it's it's often a the idea is often to have some sort of anchor retail or anchor entertainment and then have uh housing or apartments or a hotel or something around it. And and and the chair is right. It's it's normally a way to sort of streamline your zoning, right? You do it all at once in one big development and one big site plan. Um and you don't have to worry about getting a million permits approved later on, right? you can just get it all done up front. They still have to get permits, but it it keeps them from having to get 25 SUPs. They can just get one big PD. So, they're not a bad thing. I I didn't mean to I feel like I've been hating on them. They are a complicated thing that is very different um than what the surrounding area is going to look like. Okay. If y'all deny an item, so if you recommend denial, when this item goes to the council, they need a supermajority

to approve it. So if you approve it, it's just a normal simple majority for your council. If you deny it, the burden is higher for the council. They have to have 75% of their members approve it. Sometimes what that means is it's impossible for them to get it approved because there may be a recusal uh at the city council level or someone's absent. Um so by denying it, the item still goes to council, but it's harder for them to kind of overcome your denial. So, um, yeah, the other thing is y'all are probably aware at this point that when we do a zoning change for an item, everyone within a 200 foot radius of that property gets a mailed notice or a posted notice to their house. if 20% or more of those either the population of that area shows up or the area like the square footage. So if one house takes up 30% of that land and they show up that counts as 20% of the property owners showing up. if they show up and they all vote against the they push against the item in their statements, um they also trigger the supermajority, right? So, it's y'all and it's property owners, which is why it's so that notice goes out. It's why it's so important we open the public hearing so they can talk and we can see what their issue, what their deal is. Because if we don't know what how they feel, we don't know. So they can come in person or they can send their flyers in um A or B. Okay, I'm going to print all of this

this out for all of y'all. This slide. So this says what you can ask about, right? So in straight zoning, it doesn't matter what they want to you can ask about it, but the details of the intended use aren't relevant to your analysis, right? because they can change they can do they can decide later to do something else um and you can't set conditions for PD set conditions you can ask you can bother them you can do whatever um but with straight zoning it's it's a very simple ask and a very simple analysis regardless of what they want to do with the change do we are we do we are we okay with the zoning change because it runs with the land it you know it could be 12 different property owners by next year. So, we don't really care what this one person wants to do with it.

So, just using the something we talked about earlier, let's say there was a straight zoning earlier in front of us, a switch from heavy industrial to light industrial. You know, we're just either approving or denying that. We can't say, "Well, we want your curbs to be 12 in so that the trucks don't, you know, U-turn or you know what I mean?" Like, we I'm just using that as an example. We can't set additional things on top of it. It's either we're going to allow it or not allow it for a straight zoning thing. Yes, you can ask.

That was a straight zoning thing ear that was pulled. Okay. So, you can always ask, the property owner can always say, "Yeah, we'll try." But there's not a mechanism for the city to enforce that. Um, so I don't want to speak on the item that has already concluded. In general, I have found in this city that your applicants tend to be pretty eager to get along with the city and will often, if you ask, will often comp like do what you ask them to do. The important thing here is that I don't want you guys to rely on those promises because they're not enforceable in any way. So, you can always ask. Okay.

Uh, okay. plotting. If a plat comes before you and a plat is So, if you look at your No, I can't really see him here. Let me see if I have a picture of what a plat is. Yeah. Okay. Platting. Properties are platted. Properties are divided into plat. Your buildings should not cross over plat lines. Sometimes they do. We try not to have that happen. Your plat is essentially your property line. The idea is that

public infrastructure public infrastructure has to service plat right. We want to make sure that every plat in the city is getting that water, sewer, trash, whatever. If your property is not platted, it's very, very difficult for the city to know where it's supposed to go. Um, duplexes by nature are two properties on one plot. They probably only have one water line though, right? So, plotting is a way for the city and the state and the county to record what your land looks like and what services need to be administered to you if a plat comes. Yeah. Basically what this says you you if it if it promotes the health, safety, and welfare of the city, you've got to approve it. If a plat comes to you and the city tells you that it satisfies everything a plat is supposed to accomplish, you are approving it there. You are not going to not approve it. You are going to your job is ministerial at that point. You are going to approve the plat that comes in front of you. It doesn't happen that often in Sagenol. I feel like you are pretty built out. Um it happens much more often in um say Blue Mound for example, a little further up close to y'all, but they have a lot more land that isn't as developed. Um plotting is good. We're pro plotting and um yeah, if it comes in front of you, you're going to approve it because if you don't approve it, it's going to get approved anyway. But I'm going to be really upset with you because it creates a lot of paperwork. So, if a plat comes in front of you and the plat you're told by staff that the plat satisfies the statute, you're going to approve it. Okay? You don't have to, but it's a ministerial duty. You should because otherwise we're going to change your ordinance where it doesn't even come in front of you. So, and I've done it before. So, approve them. So, um

yeah. So, if you're going to deny a plot, it's hard. You have to basically show what state law, state regulation or city ordinance wasn't complied with. If staff tells you and the attorney tells you that state law, state regulations, and your city ordinances have been complied with, you are going to approve your plot. Yeah. Um, plotting is ministerial, zoning's not. All right. I'm not going to I've told you enough times you're going to approve plots. Zoning you can do whatever you want with as long as it's within the health, safety, welfare, morals of the city. Plats aren't plots are ministerial. Fair housing. I hit this a little earlier. You are never, no, regardless of what your audience might say, you are never going to take into consideration someone's race or the race or the sex of someone who is or the socioeconomic status or the disability status of someone who may be living in a certain area or occupying a certain use, right? it is so illegal and you will lose immediately. So it it is a strict scrutiny analysis which means if you're going to be denying it. So if someone says boarding homes are where we see it most often. That's a pretty controversial use. But if

what is a boarding home? A boarding home or I should say a group home if that definition is a little more of a hit. A group home is a home where by definition the people being housed there either have are recovering addicts or have disabilities and are being placed there by the state because they are so disabled they need aid, right? And so um it is it is a facility essentially but they can be placed in neighborhoods and they often house people who are extremely extremely disabled. Um these people need housing but it is also not a popular use because people get upset when they see uh people needing to be wheeled around or um or they may be louder than we would like our neighbors to be but they are also people who are severely disabled and need housing. Okay.

So, if every single person, okay, the buzzword I hear the most often is when an apartment complex is coming in and someone in the audience says, "Well, what kind of people are going to be moving in here? We don't care. We don't care." That's it's it's a it's a dog whistle. We don't care. Um or they go, "Well, isn't this going to be safe housing? Or isn't this going to house poor people? We don't care. Poor people get to have housing, right? That is not an analysis that is appropriate for you to take into account. What you want is for people to have housing and what you want is for housing to exist that meets your zoning and building standards, right? As long as that apartment meets your building standards. You don't care what kind what race, sex, socioeconomic class, gend uh gender identity. We don't care. If you have someone in your audience, the one I've heard the most recently is, "Oh, those California people, we don't care. We don't care." Um, so just

I will often unmute when it's not as common here because you guys aren't as attended. If your city attorney, whether it's me or anyone else, unmutes and says, "Reminder of the Fair Housing Act," that means you are going to disregard whatever has just been said. Right? I may not say you can't consider that, but I will say reminder that the Fair Housing Act exists. And I'm telling you to disregard whatever has just been said. I trust that y'all will do it anyway. But as a reminder, socioeconomic status is not something you also familial status. We a a pretty common thing with apartments is people being like, well, what if they're going to have three or four or five kids? We don't care. We don't care if they're unmarried. We don't care if they're married. We don't care if they're a blended family. We don't care if it's the stepparents and their kids. That is of no concern of ours, right? What we are concerned about is is there an apartment complex that meets our building and zoning codes? And as long as it does, we're fine with it. Any questions on that one?

I have been to California, but um I mean it's a dog whistle for your LGBTQ community, right? Um as a Right. I'm not even going to put that on the record. Never mind. It's okay. So, but like with with multif family like we can't but we can talk about traffic. We can talk about um the aesthetic that we want the building to be. We don't want it to be cinder blocks or you know we want it to be like stucco and stone or something. We don't want it to be five stories tall like so I I just for all the things that we can't talk about I just wanted everybody on the to know what we can talk about. Yeah.

Right. So you can always consider your normal building code, your normal aesthetic issues. You just can't consider who's moving into these buildings. You can consider the impact on the surrounding schools. You can consider the impact on traffic. Traffic control is a huge consideration and always appropriate for you to consider. Apartment complex do impact surrounding schools and traffic. That's just by nature. You have more people in a more dense area. Whenever you have housing density, you're going to be increasing your traffic and your uh uh impact on schools and surrounding supermarkets, right? Um any sort of density increases that. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, or Hispanic though, right? Um yeah. So, who is y'all's CIP out here? Is it his board as well? Okay. Y'all are also this. We very rarely have you meet as this. You are also an advisory committee for your capital improvements projects. If that comes up, we'll do a real quick training that day. Um, but basically, you you look at the capital improvements, you monitor it, you get those staff reports all the time that kind of tell you what's going on in your city. Um, it's an advisory board. you as a group are allowed to advise and assist and and have opinions on what your land should look like, right? We expect you as the PNZ commission to actually have specialized knowledge about what is going on in your city, right? Which is why you get those updates every time. Um, yeah, your focus is on water, traffic, roadway facilities, sewage, all of that. try to move you around. Okay. Um, does anyone have any questions about everything I just said? I spent longer

on the Fair Housing Act. That is, I defend a lot of lawsuits about the Fair Housing Act. So, if I can prevent y'all from violating it now, I would like to. Um, so the main thing really, don't make group chats, don't survey each other. If you have a conflict, tell me ahead of time. I'll make you fill out an affidavit. will screen you from the proceedings. If you think you're going to have a conflict, don't help them at all. Like, remove yourself from the situation. I know if it's your brother or your cousin and he's like, "Oh, well, how do I get this permit?" Factual information only. Tell them to call staff. Don't do anything beyond that. Um, we don't want to create any sort of I worked for I work in a city where the applicant went up and said, "Oh, well, Miss so- and so told me to do this." And I was like, "All right, everybody get into executive session right now." Um, so the other thing I want to hit just procedurally with y'all, as your attorney, I am the PNZ, I am the commission's attorney. I'm not your individual attorneys. I will still give you affidavit to sign to remove you from conflicts. I cannot give you individual legal advice. Right. Um, the conflict is under Government Code 175. I'm allowed to as city attorney to administer that to you because I am protecting you as a member of the PNZ, right? But I cannot advise you on anything happening in your personal lives. I cannot advise you on anything happening in your commercial lives. So, please do not ask me. Um, y'all have never asked me, but other cities have um PIA stuff. If because you are members of a governmental body right now, records that you create that have to do with zoning matters are public record. Even if you do them on your personal cell phone, if you post on your personal

Facebook account all about what's happening here, you are creating a public record. I'm not saying the entire Facebook is public or Instagram or Twitter or whatever, but those specific items, you have become a temporary custodian of public information. If a public information act request came in, one of us will be contacting you. We have 10 business days once that request comes in where if or say you have a campaign page for this. I don't think any of you do. We're a pretty small city, but if you had a campaign page for um this position or for council if you run for council or whatever waterboard if you run for waterboard or TAD, those are public pages. Someone can request and access those. So, please refrain. You can do whatever you want. You have a first amendment right to do whatever you want. If you are creating public records, at some point I may have to ask for them and it's a pain to get them off your phone. So you can do whatever you want. It may be better or easier for you in the future if you refrain from creating those records. As a city attorney, I can take you into executive session under an exception under 551071. It happens rarely with the PNC. I can it's happened like once in like the three years I've been here. I'm pretty sure anything we discuss in executive session is confidential information. You cannot discuss anything we discussed in there out here unless the entire P&Z or commission votes to wave the privilege of what has happened in there. I am giving you legal advice in that room. I'm pretty casual with y'all where I'll just tell you things out here where I'm like, "Hey, don't say that."

If y'all wanted, I could take you into the back and tell you back there, "Hey, don't say that." Um, by saying it out here, I'm waving my privilege because I'm doing it in public, right? If there was something y'all were doing that really scared me, I would take you back there. Um, and I would tell you not to talk about it. So when we're back there, we have the executive session privilege under 071 and we have attorney client confidentiality back there. As your as a board, you are my client. So be prepared for that. There are other items that we can go into executive session for, but it happens fairly rarely um for a PNZ. The main thing being land acquisition might be a thing we talk about back there. Um those will be posted on your agenda. Anything we discuss in executive, anything I write down in executive, powerpoints that are shown in executive are confidential. They are not subject to the PIA. So I want you guys to keep that in mind. I think that's everything. I know everyone is tired and wants to go home. We only do this once a year. It just happened to be a very long meeting tonight. Does anyone have any questions for me? Any concerns? Okay. Okay, y'all. We can go home. Can we close?

Maybe we can go home. Well, as I figured out earlier, we cannot go home. We have to go through um Well, hold on. Do I need to clo wait uh we weren't open? We weren't open. So, okay. So, we're going to go to uh number four, staff report for a project update.

Mr. Chairman, just main ones. Bailey Boswell Professional Center was added recently. They should be done with utilities and paving uh towards the end of this month. Everything's going on schedule. Uh for Holloway expansion, same situation, continuing building structure. Uh no roundabout. We heard the last update from our director and contractor. Roundabout will hopefully be able to be opened by December 6th, if not before. That's the update. Say that again. December 6. So by that if not before almost. Did you record that? I'm just kidding. Yeah. Heard of their last.

Yeah. Yeah. No, we we are uh for the Sagnar retail which we had a pre-construction meeting for last month. We have no recent reports or activity, but that is a recent project. And then Opal and Brian Park are done with playgrounds and just continuing. Sagenar retail is the um Sagena Square. Yes. Got it. Okay. Just making sure. Yep. Yes. And for parks, playgrounds are completed and pending completion is for trees, irrigation, fencing, all other finishing details around it. Yeah. Wayside Middle School is moving fast. We drove past there the other day and they planted like 150 trees overnight and I was like, "Wow."

Correct. They're anticipating kids to be able to move into the new building. Please January. Get them out of the road. Yeah. All right. Okay. So, thank you very much staff for your update. Uh number five, exe going to adjourn this meeting at 6:31 p.m. Oh, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Hey, I'm glad I misspoke because I actually can't. Do I have a motion to end the meeting? I move that we end this. Do I have a second?

A second. All right. All in favor, vote. All righty. And then it passes and I'm going to close out the meeting at 8 8:32 p.m. Thank y'all. All that training