Planning Board - Regular Meeting

We can call the planning board meeting to order. Scott Craig will be voting on this tonight. Uh we don't have minutes from last meeting, so we're going to skip that. We don't have a voucher because they're still working on secretary. Now, do we really need this guy to be here? I mean, we've already approved it once. What's the What's the request that he's changing? Yeah. He remember before he was going to use those four storage units for his four tenants. Yes. Now that's out. He wants to be able to rent it to me and you however. Okay. Okay.

So, they've added the bathroom, the little office, and you know, the doors in each unit cuz before I think it was just a garage door, nothing in them. So, I mean, he doesn't have to put an office in. I don't know why he did that. I mean, make it so what's the difference? Right. But I mean, he he doesn't need the he only needs a bathroom, right? I mean, it's still nice to have a little Yeah. designated space, but I mean, that takes up a lot of room in here. So, yeah. Well, they could take it down. Take it down if they don't want it. It's not required. I don't I don't see why it would be.

Do we want to have any questions? Anybody got any questions on it? So this is just like another opportunity for him to make it. We're just changing the use, right, from four storage buildings or the use of existing tenants to four rental units business, right? And it's all behind the big the front building so you can see it. What's on the other side? that river view part in the back I think is uh yeah behind that would be that plan development yeah which but he does have a goodiz piece of property going way back

cuz he's only going to the existing parking that's in the back you know what I'm saying there's a nice buffer there so since the people in this building don't necessarily get the opportunity to use this as there parking for whatever this new building is. We need 29 spaces and we have 29 spaces. So he meets the parking. The only thing he didn't show us was landscaping

landscaping which would be across baseline and I don't know green and black the color or that just the way the computer came out. I mean are we concerned with the color? Earth tone called an earth tone. Earth. I guess not. There any other reason that we would go back to complaining about this? The only was that there would be no sewer and no no new sewer and no new water taps. They would tap off the existing structure. So there'd be no new uh infrastructure of the road, right? So it's basically a a building service off the main building. It's basically

And he and he had already said that he was going to sneak the electric down the grass side. Yeah. To the new building. Yeah. Were there bathrooms in it before? No. That's the whole thing is when he wants to rent it, he's got to have a bathroom. And that kind of changes the use from Why does he have to have a bathroom? That's a code. It's in the code. If they're individual rental spaces, you need to provide bathroom for your workers. So like say each space is its own business. You have to have a bathroom. And Okay. But I mean, if it's just storage, no, they're that's not what he's here for. Well, I understand that. But so if it was just storage, he wouldn't need a bath. But because he's going to rent them,

but I mean, he could rent it. It could be a a hair salon. It could be a barber. It could be So it's a mini plaza. Yeah. Well, it's garages, but Well, yeah, but I mean, so it's similar to, you know, kind of like what? Yeah. The same thing, right? I get it. I'm just wondering why smaller if you were just because I'm thinking of a storage units, right? So I could go rent a 10 by 20 or a 20 by 20 storage unit. There's no bathroom in it. Well, that was his first plan, right? No, but that's what I'm saying. That's why I was just wondering why does it have to have a bathroom? Because he's renting it. He's renting them to the general. If he would have rented Originally, he was going to rent them to I understand what you're saying, but we have storage units all over the island that don't have bathrooms.

But these aren't storage. You got the flexibility to rent this out as not as like a biz park. Could be a little small and they do have bathrooms. Yeah, they could be harbor. You see what that note says? Harboring of the storage unit. White Haven. Not one of them has a bathroom. No, I'm just saying I I'm wondering this set because it's because of the square footage because I think because went through the originally the building I remember we talked about

I understand but he could rent it to me put in if I had five cars that I want in there I don't need a bathroom is all what I'm saying that's all I'm just asking why what triggers the bathroom is what I'm asking that's all it can't just be because somebody's renting it we have rentals all over that bathroom it's a business use it's a business use he wants to be able to put four more businesses businesses back there. So, they would need a bat. I get it. Okay. Anybody else? Any questions? All in favor for change of use? I We need a second. We need someone want to back up. You're making a motion. Make a motion. Brad second.

All in favor again? You want to just take a note down? The only thing that we should say that I don't know how we going to do this. We don't have any secretary to send a letter to you guys. I'll prepare the letter. All right. The letter make sure that it includes that he's the landscaping. So they didn't pay for a couple of months. I made the motion. Brad second

second by Brad. All in favor everyone the five of us. Greg, Scott, Amy, Brad, me. I mean, I'm not minutes, but I'm okay. And so, and then recommend that we recommend visible with the conditions on baseline to be added and and some type of earth tone color on the building. Pick who picks colors? And you said earth tone building.

Yeah, earth tone color. Who picks? You guys don't do that in building, don't you? Review, but also this is in the back, too. So, I think we're good. Okay. Next on our agenda was the grass and snow law. Now, we all had got the updated copies. We from what I'm understanding is we got to give them some direction. We just can't say no, we don't want it. We got to say

why we don't want it, what we'd like changed and and go that route. So my my problem with my problem with the the whole law and just about every one of these laws we come up with, there's no enforcement provision. Who's going to go out and measure the grass? Department. So we're going to have somebody that goes out and measures the grass. So it's going to be equal enforcement across the board. If your lawn isn't cut and his lawn isn't cut, are you getting the fine? Is he getting the fine? you're both getting the fine. It can't be a favorites game because that's the way it is. It's never equal enforcement.

So, that's my first problem with it. The second problem I have with it is the liability factor of sending somebody on your property to cut your grass and that's just a whole ball of worms. I don't know if you talked to anybody, but I talked to two real estate or two insurance agents and they both said that's a bad idea. Yeah. Have to name the child's insurer plus the homeowner. Craig additionally insured in case something happens. So he's don't know if he's insured. Yeah. No. When the the contractor is going to do the cutting or right they need to name a town assur. Right. Yeah. That doesn't that doesn't mean that mean that there's not going to be a lawsuit involved in it.

But they trip over something in his yard or they get hurt in their yard, he's still they're still going to go after him. I mean, as a general contractor for 40 years, it's not an easy task to be adding people to your insurance. Yeah, it's pain. It used to charge me a h 100red bucks per add-on. I don't think it charges I don't think it's that much now. Was 100. So I I see the simple solution to it is remove the fact that we're going to send somebody in to cut your grass and start with a fine system. $250. First you get a warning 10 days to cure. You don't cure it. $250 fine.

Next time make it stiffer. Make it $1,000 a crack if it's a habitual problem. But sending sending a contractor out there and have a selective enforcement because the first thing I would do if I got the letter and I'd drive around and go, "His lawn isn't cut. His lawn isn't cut. His lawn isn't cut. Why are you coming after me?" It kind of pits neighbor against neighbor. Exactly. It's just who wants to complain. Yeah. Same thing we have about all these other town involved in grass cutting. I mean, last year Casey said it was eight lawns out of all of Grand Island. I don't know how many lawns are on Grand Island, but eight doesn't seem to be like a lot of

And what happens if you go away on vacation and you like your lawn longer and it rains a lot and all a sudden you come home and it's really long and it's not intentional. It's just I'm turning you in. Yeah. Yeah. My neighbor doesn't like me so I can phone call. I think it should be a fine. I and take the town out of doing Yes. And then that would alleviate any liability to the homeowner. And I mean, private property is private property. Now you've given not that I have anything against the town, but I don't want them in my backyard.

Well, if you want to get on Google Earth, knock yourself out. I just don't feel we should because right now, if Nick wants to come to my home, he can come up and ring my doorbell. And if I'm in the backyard, he can't say, "Oh, well Dave didn't answer the doorbell, so I'm gonna walk around to the backyard." And if I have an open building permit on, he can. But yeah, if he just wants to come and talk to me, he can't go back there. But to Amy's point, I mean, you could be away for two weeks. You get a notice. You don't even know about the notice. All of a sudden, somebody's had property cutting your arrest. You don't even know what's Yeah. You don't even know anything went on. We we had the problem of a building inspector walking around people's backyards looking in windows. We don't need that again.

The thing is though, I think it's basically based off these houses that nobody's currently living. Okay. So, we had a big problem. We call them zombie houses for a long time. Banks take over that house. People would sign it back over to the bank and they didn't maintain them. That's not the case anymore. Now you have these management companies that are out there and they go there and they're checking on that property all the time. I haven't seen. You said there was eight. I haven't seen any that were really Marlin. Marlin Court I think. You know what? Marlin Court. Marlin Court isn't a bank owned property. That woman still owns it. Yeah. But she doesn't maintain it. She don't even live there. She hasn't lived there in 15 years.

But my point is, okay, I live in the house and I'm not cutting the lawn and and I'm whatever recluse or whatever. And I'm paying my taxes. I'm paying my mortgage, but I'm not cutting the loan. Well, I'm going to get a notice to cut my loan. I'm not going to cut the loan. I'm going to get, let's say, a $250 fine. And then they're going to drive by. They don't have to even get out of their car. Drive by and go, you know what? She hasn't cut the lawn again. You know, when they're out on inspections, they can say, okay, we got to drive past every 10 days house and double check the lawn. driveby, hasn't cut his lawn, send me out another notice for 10 days. If I don't cut the lawn again, then it's another $250 fine. And that would happen every 10 days. And then at the end of the year, we have to figure out if that fine's got to be able to roll over onto your tax bill. I'm telling you, next year you're going to have lawn service there when you got a couple thousand dollar fine on your tax bill.

I think you should raise it. I think you're gonna you're not gonna get it. You're gonna get somebody in there because you're you're not going to pay them fees. What's the point of this though? It's just because people don't like looking at unsightly grass. Like it's petty and we're law over it. I have a neighbor. They're nice people. I like them. I was in India all summer.

Yeah. his daughter doesn't know how to do anything. She, you know, drive a car. She don't want to drive a lawnmower. She's, so the grass grows. So the neighbor on one side, he cuts the bulk and I cut from the driveway towards me. End of story. So now what am I going to do? Call up and say, "Nick, the guy's not cutting his lawn. He's going to send him the notice. Send somebody there to cut the lawn. Send the guy the bill." And that you know what he's going to do? Well, who turned me in? Well, Bruno turned to him. Well, right now when he comes home, he's happy to see me. He won't be very happy to see me when he starts. He's happy to see you cuz you cut his lawn all year.

Yeah. When he gets, you know, when he gets bills. I I just don't think it's a I don't think it's I understand there's a problem. Let's shorten the time frame down and give him a fine and then run that for a year and let's see what happens. If it turns out that in a year it's a disaster, it doesn't work. Rework it. Well, then let's come forward. Why are we punishing everybody though for like eight houses of their election? Punishing the whole island for Yes. I agree. Not if you go with grass. Well, you cut your grass, but you go away on vacation for two weeks and you come back in your lawn.

Now, the snow part of it, how you going to do that? It it says in there 24 hours after the snowfall. Well, if you're in Florida in Disney World and we get a snowstorm, you're supposed to call your neighbor and say, "Can you take care of mine?" No, it's a lot of snowbirds, too. Then you get then you would get the 10day notice. By then, you might have a nice day and there's no snow, right? Well, it seems just for That's just it seems to be like a Is it just the sidewalk? sidewalk. So, how do how do they do it in like Tamwanda? Do they enforce it? Because usually in the cities,

if you don't cut if you don't shovel your snow, the mailman won't deliver your mail because the mailboxes are on your front door. Well, that's not the sidewalk they're talking about, though. They're talking about the sidewalk. Yeah, but if they get in front of your house. Well, like if you live in Tana, the sidewalk out front, if you don't shovel it, the mailman doesn't deliver your mail. Also, they also enforce that stuff, right? They do in that city, right? So, if you want your bills and Buffalo Buffalo don't care to put snow. I mean, how are you guys like bidding out snow removal? Not that I'm aware of. I mean, h how would you even do it?

Send a contractor to shovel the snow? I snowball my sle. That would be you have no neighbors. No, I mean so like in my business I snowball from web road to um speedway. I just do the whole area just because Okay. Because you're neighborly or being neighborly. I watched a kid get hit on a bike once. It bothers me and I like sidewalks and that's why. So that's my personal thing. Well, do it. Some people don't. Sell snowblowers. It's a good advertising. It's also a valid point. like right when I we just grab another, you know, you know, even like the kid next door to me, he was had a building permit. He's remodeling. He's not living there.

He never cut the front front lawn. He just left it. And I was like, well, I went over and cut. I was just being neighborly. No, is just having people walk on sidewalks for avail. And the roads get narrow in the winter. I get it. I understand. But it's really hard to I don't know what your methodology is to for enforcement there. You know what I mean? Because you you could say 24 hours, but maybe it's a maybe it's a weekl long event, you know, and you lose it. Or maybe it snows and it gets warm and cold real quick and then you need dynamite to get through it and you're not going to get through it, you know. Um, so

I mean they're talking a lot of variables there. They're talking about in here about you putting salt or ice on the sidewalk responsible to replace yourself. that I won't do because then Yeah, you wreck you're wrecking the sidewalk. It's your responsibility to repair. Yes.

I just keep I just do the right thing. I can't make people the town definitely does and the town center we make sure all those are extremely clear and uh even town property down the boulevard probably we make sure it's clear um as a town but I I I agree with doing them like my father-in-law's a snowbird I go over and do his sidewalk sometimes I don't even do his driveway just do his sidewalk because he's kind of on a a corner spot I people. I mean, even even the let me tell you, most of the project guys, too, they don't they don't do sidewalks.

They'll do like a little a or a little sidewalk to your house, but they're not going to go out and do 100 ft of running unless you're paying them. Well, they don't really they don't even want it. They don't have a snowball. Right. Right. They don't have time to do it. One of them does cuz the guy across from me, they were doing at 3:30 in the morning. Well, that's another complaint. Yeah, it's a whole another issue.

I mean, even in 2191 section A, I mean includes grasses, annual plants, dead or dying trees, stumps, roots, filth, garbage, trash, or any other material which presents a hazard to human life or fire safety or constitutes a nuisance. So, so my big decorative or you know grasses that those are ugly to to Brad. So he comes by and complains about. I mean I was going to come over with a weed eater.

I mean I don't know how how are you defining what is a hazard to human health when it comes to the above. Clarify or fire safety or constitutes a nuisance. A nuisance to who? I mean I think the law should be clear. I agree.

You know, you go over 55 miles an hour, you can get a ticket. Now, understand the cop can say, "Well, 57, I'm going to give you a ticket or I'm going to let you go to 67 and give you a ticket." But those guys were trained professionals in that field. I don't think that not I'm not picking on Nick or the building department, but I don't think they've been trained to be able to determine human health, fire safety, and constitutes a nuisance. And it is our job. That's why we're certified. But you're certified. You've had some training in those. Certified in nuisance. We're we're certified in life safety. That's literally our job. Lifey. We get 24 hours of inservice training every year. Okay.

To determine life safety issues. And a lot of that would be, you know, if there was a hazard to the building or like for example, if there was overgrowth around, let's say, electric meter or something along that could potentially catch fire or something like that. But that's not what we're going to be looking for too much. It's more of like let's say uh let's say for example you have exa exhaust vents for a house that are completely blocked or weeds are all growing in it and it's dumping CO2 inside the house, you know, stuff like that. That should be that's that's a life safety. Yeah. But that to me is an interior issue, not an exterior issue. Caused by an exterior issue.

Yeah. But that would be something that you would notice from the interior of your home. CO2 being dumped back in my house. Well, your alarms would be going off and I'm living there. As if your alarms are working. It's a nuisance to you, not a nuisance to your neighbor. Yeah, right. How does your neighbor know that you have CO2? And if those vents were in the back of my house, what are you doing in my backyard? And I could see like the neighbors could complain and we can walk on their property. So, it's very visible. But like if there's trash on the front lawn, like really that's not like an animal gets into my garbage and rips it apart and I'm away and it rips apart and it's all blown across your front lawn which happens just about every day on Grand Island.

That's a public nuisance. Thanks. What about what about when they dump your garbage truck and it's windy and half of it goes in the truck and half my front yard all down the road? Yeah. I I don't know. It just seems to me that the definition should be cleaned up. Can't be the definition's got to be clear. It can't be an somebody's opinion. It's a law. It can't be an opinion. The whole thing was very poorly written on the very I mean I don't know even know what what is stumps tree stumps. What's a root? So you can't have a tree stump in your yard. It's a root.

Yeah. What would cause you to come out and say that root is a nuisance or a fire habit or a safety issue? Let's say if it was uplifting a public or a public sidewalk maybe. I don't I mean I don't know to me that would be the sidewalk. That would be the safety roots are good for concrete for sharp sharp blades.

The way the way it's written, it's the whole lot, not just the front. It's not I can under. So if I got roots in my backyard and my neighbor calls up and complains, they're going to come out trash. Filth filth. I know. I think this is the the feedback we have to give though is like what defines filth. I like Oscar the grouch. I think I'm I would be concerned with the definition. Yeah. That the definition would need to be cleaned up. Feedback thing should be um

and it's it's very subjective. So you're saying, well, we're only concerned about this, but that's not what the law says. The law says all of that, and you're saying, well, we're only concerned about that portion of it. Well, that's not what the law says. Yeah. Because when you jump into B, it's completely different. It's talking about grass, weeds, and busher plant growth exceeding 8 in in height. That's completely different than A. So, you can't have a plant more than 8 in in height. No, most of them. Well, maybe this all has to tie back.

Otherwise, remove all grass, weeds, brush, or plant growth exceeding 8 in in height. So, now I did a job for a guy on Stony Point. He let his whole front yard go back wild. for the 8 in it's in the front yard wasn't in the required setbacks of the building. That that's the thing because the way the law is written too it's or well the how the contract is written it's whatever your zoning setbacks are. So 50 foot rear yard 50 whatever front yard 12t side yard it's based off your zoning district. That's how the the contract was written by the attorney.

So his is his is from Stony Point back 50 feet. So anything past that we don't care. But you care about the first 50 ft at least. Yeah. Anything around the foundation of the building. Well, what would happen to him? The reason he did that is his dog would go up the stony point. So, we let the whole front grow because the dog wouldn't go in the Well, now it's little saplings. And there was a house on Marlin that my son looked at. The whole front yard was like a woods. Yeah. Like you never cleared it. There's houses on Youth Road and stuff like that.

But on the houses on each side had cut lawns right all the way back to the front. So, how do we how are we distinguishing all this? Is there anything in the residential building code that we could tie any of this back to? Well, unfortunately, Jen did it and she cross referenced all of this to to stuff that was already in the code. Yeah. Somewhere else, the building code, which is a law. So, we felt, well, this is a law now, too.

Yeah. But I'm saying if you tie it to a law, then it's then it's actually something you can enforce as a law. I know this this is a law, but there's no if we're saying that our feedback is there's no facts and it's a lot of subjective language. We have to tie it back then to something that is factual to make it all tied back to the New York State Property Maintenance Code. Okay, that's

I mean, I understand they need a shorter time frame because currently it's send out the 30-day notice. You got 30 days to respond. You you're still a no show. They got to put you on to take you to court, get you on a court calendar, that might be four or five months. So when they were talking about snow, by the time you go to court, it's July and the judge just goes, "Well, with this throws and throws it up, it's too late."

So you need a shorter enforcement time frame. That's that's definitely and I'm not opposed to that at all. But I don't think we should have our township involved in cutting people's lawns and shovel snow digging out. Now no, I know there's some law that if I have a tree that's fallen over or something and I don't do something with it. Remember the one on Youth Road that was the empty lot. Well, that was on a property, right? And it was a a clear um concern for humans, right, on property. Oh, the tree was laying right over it.

Yeah. So, it was gonna fall on the house on his car or him. The owner was fake or missing, right? You know, um so we intervene because they realistically couldn't go on the property and cut it. We intervened saying it was a it was a concern of health, welfare, and safety, which made sense. We over we we we stepped a little farther than we should have, but we we took care of the problem. Yeah. you know. Um, but it was it was definitely a for sure could have fallen that guy's car any minute. Yeah. Yeah. Or house or him, right? So that's I can understand that type of stuff. But

now it says in here, you know, dead or dying trees. Like there's a lot of people that leave the dead trees for the woodpeckers. There's one on East River. It's been dead out front of his house for 20 years. It's still standing. So now we're going to force them to cut that. Not if it's not a hazard, I would say. Well, I would think a 20-year-old dead tree would be a hazard, a safety hazard. You'd have to call up and complain about it. Then you would call with this law complaint. That's my whole problem with it. It's no, it's not enforceable unless somebody calls and complains. Well, it's enforcable, but

No, but I mean that's the only way complaints. We don't want to get into the field of selective enforcement. And that's what it is. That's what it feels like. Yeah. It's exactly what it's going to be because we don't have a lawn, snow, tree, stump, root guy. That's his job. Well, it's the truth. Hey, do we have anybody going out to check the toilet paper and the linens and the dirty pillowcases at the Airbnbs? Because we have a whole law about that.

It was urgent that we had to hire the attorneys to write this law to do all this stuff. Is anybody time to check that out? I don't know. Pretty sure that all got swapped. No, it passed. It definitely didn't. What do you mean it didn't pass? It definitely did not. Did that pass? I think Nick's right. I don't know that that were trying to go in that direction, but it never got

At least we spent all that money with the law firm to write that fantastic piece of legislation. Multiple copies, multiple had to take go back, fix this, go back, fix that. I think the feedback then we need to give is we did pass a law however that Phil is not allowed to sell Bill's tomatoes in his front yard. We got to all right that was a law we had even though we're not happy with it we got to give them points. So that's what if they listen to this they got a lot of it the definitions needs to be more

the definition for sure and then I think the whole thing of hiring a contractor and you know having the town get involved and I mean they put it out to bid already. Well so I I think what you're saying is is you'd rather see the the the py be more fine based than Yes. Yes. than having somebody go on private property and cut grass. Right. So, I think that's what you say to the town board. Listen, I think you need to get more aggressive with your fine and less aggressive with trying to do the work. And I think that's that's what you're saying. That's what we're saying. Yeah. And the fine is as simple as we all agree to that. If your inspector goes out there, you guys should have some sort of device to set the lawn. Take a picture of it.

Show in the front of the house. Here it is. This is your house. That's how high the grass is. Give them a fine. But also the statement's got to be more clearer too. It's got to be opened up 1981 is needs to be a little cleaned up and then I mean I I mean some of this stuff isn't going to even if if we go with fine based thing half of this thing's going away. I am gonna I'm gonna say that if we went back five, six years ago, we had to go on that private property and cut that tree down because it was threatening that home that some of this would have helped us. It would have gave us a little bit so we didn't have to reinvent the wheel to do it. That doesn't mean

Well, I think it necessarily you you argue every emergency situation is right that falls under health and safety, right? So yeah, it was a I think I could see every one of those things being a threat, but 99 out of a hundred aren't. Yeah. But I can under I can understand under your your heading of what you're defining. Yeah. And when you say dead and dying trees, you could define that to a tree that's falling that has the potential to hurt someone. It gets defined in the contract the contractor. It's not it's not large trees like it's there's a certain size. It might be two or three. What contract are you talking about?

Bid that went out. But that's not the law. No, this is the bid. No, I understand. This is the bid. The contract that they're Has the bid been come back yet? The bids in the available in the town clerk's office. But you have an open bid. No, but what I'm what I'm saying is so in that bid, but it's not in the law. That's something you recommend to the council, right? So, I mean, if you're putting the specifications in the bid that's going out, it's got to match the law. It's got to match the law, right? I recommend that.

Well, I mean, that's I'm just saying the town attorney wrote specific language in the contract for a certain size of the tree that will be ruled. That's not So, does the town attorney the one that decides or is it the town board the one that decides? the end of the day, it' be the town board that has to decide. Then why is the attorney writing the specs on what size the trees are if it's not in the law? Who's he? I didn't I didn't I didn't vote for him. Where does he get the authority to make that decision? That's that's what should be in the law. Yeah.

It's not in the law. Whatever that is, that's meaningless. If it's in the bid paperwork, it's got to be reflected in the law, right? That tells you is not accurate because the lawyer who drafted the RP had add detail that would that would work, right? And he drafted this, right? Oh, it's the same lawyer. Yeah, probably. Our town attorney, his office, whether it was the same same person or not, I don't know. Was that the example one that I made a long time ago or is that the newer one? That's the one you gave me when you were just about It's completely changed from that. It's changed from that. It's completely changed. Well,

that was just my first attempt to get the ball rolling. Oh, okay. My my concern is also that don't we have better things to do with town dollars outside of drafting a law drafting that 30page document? Obviously not various vacant maintain with another big thing when we're talking about eight lawns last year we be putting this money Pete towards the unmaintained

sewer plant or something that you need fixed. So this this law sat on my things for year and a half. No four. Okay. Because there was complaints about cracks. There was complaints about snow. I personally kicked around every way from Sunday. I couldn't come up with a way to to make it not right like arbitrary. I couldn't do it. So, um they decided to

go beyond that and just institute it. Um I kind of thought maybe we should be looking at this a little different way. Um, I'm more into, um, I'm more into compliance than I am into, uh, punishing people, you know what I mean? Um, I kind of thought I we had to speed up the timelines and that it was a a seven-day compliance period and there was no cost to it. Um, listen, you're out of bounds here. Fix this. You got seven day. First one's first one's a warning. Yeah. So then the next one's a fine, you know, and then like you said, it's so many days if it's not rectified, there's another fine until it it gets,

you know, if it gets to the point where and I think snow is a little bit different than grass. Okay. But I think at some point when you've got 4ft tall grass in a neighborhood like Sandy Beach area and there's rodents in it and they're spilling in the neighborhood and the neighbors are upset. I see their point.

If it happened to next to me, I can care less. But that's where I live. You know what I mean? It's just a different world. So, in neighborhoods, it makes more sense, you know? But I kind of always thought that maybe it should have a little bit more to do with um sewer versus non sewer, right? Because sewer sewer houses in are generally neighborhoods and more dense and what your neighbor does affects you a lot more than like a non sewer lot that's maybe a couple acres. You know what I mean? If they will cut their grass, it's far enough away from me and I don't it's not changing my life. You know what I mean? So, um

but there are instances where there's a blank lot in a neighborhood. Yeah, there is. Like I had one on baseline that bought it off to Woodstream Meadows and it was a blank lot. I hadn't sold it yet. It was there for a while probably. And the people behind me had their lawyer send me a letter that they wanted me to pay for a whole new lawn because the Voss came out of my lot and went into his lot his lawn. And I'm like, it's a wild land. Can't control them. What about lots that are owned by the town? Those are going to be maintained by the town. They should be maintained.

I know we're on the hook for all the trees on it. If the trees fall and hit something, we're on the hook for it. I think the time frame should be set up. We've been fixing those trees, then you I mean, give them, hey, you got 10 days to cut your lawn and then you after that you get a fine. Even if we'll come back, we'll come back and do the same thing again. And after you get, you know, I I was driving through center of town, phone rang, I answered it. State trooper catches me. Yeah.

Pulls me over. I got a mark on my license and a $200 fine. They knocked a license charge down to a little less so. So I didn't get a mark on my license. But I had to pay $200 fine. Do you know I've never picked up that phone again. And that's no lie. Don't touch that phone because I had to pay that 200 bucks. It killed me to pay that 200 bucks. Put it in perspective though that there are a handful of properties where there are no banks involved. The owner is deceased. There's no next of kin and setting a fine every week $250 is going to be redundant. It's not going to do anything.

Yeah. Someone's got to own that propert. It's got to be an estate. That's the point. And we can and it won't go to foreclosure until it's vacant for three years. So that's three years that we are getting complaints from the neighbors next door for rodents and animal and overgrown weeds and grass that it's taken over. So there's no other law to protect those kind of No, because right now because right now it's 30-day postings and eventually put them in court and they can't even go to court because there's no next pin or no one to take care of it. That seems so rare that we're then basing a another law on something that's so

even less. It's even less than the eight per purse per 2025. Like there's got to be something else. Someone someone's there. There's got to be an estate. It just can't be that it's sitting out limbo. There's an estate that maybe they're fighting exist. But yeah, they're fighting at each other or something. But again, if you start them fines and me and you were mad at each other and mom and dad passed and we're fighting over the money, so I'm not letting you sell the house cuz I think I should get the house. 50 bucks at the And then when these fines start coming in Oh, yeah. That's a deal. They're going to go against the taxes

and then when we go to sell that property, they got to get paid. Yeah. Based off 500 hours, they only do at the end of They're still getting the same. What do you mean at the end of the year, the Erie County will send them? It's like, let's say, for example, $20,000 of grass cutting for for the season. the county will take that money, put it on their taxes, and then refund the town back. So, it's just a shuffle of money. You're not really losing money. It's just a transfer of money. See? Yeah. It's like a place. Look, any unpaid any unpaid taxes, if you don't pay your property taxes and it goes to the county, you can't believe the law to

No, that's what I mean. County pays the town. Okay. So, the town gets their tax then you owe the county. Then you owe the county. Then you owe them the county. So any fines that they put on there, the county is going to pay to the town. The town's going to get their money and then you owe it to the county. Yeah. But if that money and then after three years, I'm driving around. That money doesn't get picked up by the county. They're not going to eat it. They're going to raise the county tax to cover the loss. They're not they're eventually going to either collect the tax dollar if they don't collect it or they foreclose. We're all going to pay. Do you see what I'm saying? I don't know if the county will actually make the town whole if it's just a fine system. Because

yeah, but if we can do the fine that the fine isn't the water bill Pete automatically go to your taxes if I don't pay my water bill. Yeah. If we can do it the same way you got them you got them by by levy relev but I don't know if you can then what are we just going to the building department for example is going to determine well we're going to find them every time. We have no we have that we don't have that ability. It would have to go to court and then stay in court until it gets taken and then each time the judge is going to have to find it every single time. Well, I mean it doesn't So, you're going to hire a contractor to go cut the grass and I'm not going to pay him.

Well, then you're not going to pay the town because you have to pay the town. And if you don't pay the town, then it becomes a lean on your property. That's how it that's how it works. Okay. So, there's a service rendered. Okay. So either way, it's going to be a lean. Yeah. Basically, the the town it's like a shuffle of funds. The town's always going to be made whole at the end of the year. There's no loss. There's no gain. There's no administrative fee that was associated with this. So, it's just transfer of funds one out and well, but if the county isn't paying it and you're just going to have fines and it's going to be a lean on my property, you're not going to get paid on that lean unless I sell it.

Well, I again, I don't know. Once again, you cannot sell the property if you have lean against it, right? So, it's going to go now place and somebody So, you see your tax bill and see the interest that they charge you on the money you didn't pay or the won't be on your that won't be on your tax bill.

But I also don't know if you could just find them $250 a week until it gets cut and continues on forever with no limit. And then at the end of year, we're going to the county is going to you're going to say, "Okay, county, you owe us $50,000 for this property that we we we find all year round because they didn't cut their grass every single week." You know, I don't know if they could legally do that because there was nothing done. It was just there was no service rendered. There was no work done. There was no judge determination. It's just us saying, "Hey, we're going to find them every week because they haven't cut their grass." And the county might say, "That's not legal. You can't do that. Well, we don't know that. I don't know.

I mean, I hate to be spending more throwing more money, good money away from bad here on Well, on our legal budget. Temporary temporary hole. That's all it is. It's your main hole at the end of the year. You know, some of the thoughts we had, if somebody can write it up and send back to the board. Well, I I was going to say this. I was going to say that we're missing four members. That's almost half of us. But by the time we get this settled, they could have contract awarded. I don't think they're going to be doing anything next meeting in place, right? You're not going to be doing nothing on right away, are you?

I can't speak for the board. I have no idea. This is a certain town board members pet project right here. I mean, even if we I'm not in a rush for it personally. I mean, but I'm going to get it right, but Well, I'd rather get it right with the four more people's inputs. Yeah, but we can't change. Well, you can amend the law. That's all. We can only amend. No. Am I following that right, Pete? I was I watched the workshop when we asked for the law to be rescended. And Godfrey said because it was a legislative action, it can't be rescended. It can be changed. Modified and changed. It can be modified and changed, but not taken off.

Why can't it be taken off? It's the law. So legislator abolish it like that. Um unless you're replacing it with something that makes more sense. So do we want to Is that why there's all these you hear about all these old laws that are on the books? Yeah. Can't hang your bloomers out on the clothes line on Sundays. And I don't I didn't know that. Guess I can't do it anymore. No, you know, I'm just talking about those stupid old laws. Depends if I deem them a nuisance or not. Yeah, exactly. I mean, do we want districts? Yes. Things like that. Do we want to table this till next meeting and get the input from the other four? It makes sense. Does that make sense to all of us?

Well, maybe once again some somebody should send an email out to everybody and say bring your comments. I said that last meeting. Everybody's out of town. You know, this is Florida. Our homework was to go through that and come up with comments. So, came up with some comments, kick it off. Getting the new contract, the bid that's in the clerk's office to because it's come, like I said, it's different from that. I I'd like to see the bid number to what they really are charging. Well, you'll see when the bids come in, right? We would have that probably by then. Do we have any bids in yet? No, just went out.

When does it do? 15th, I believe. And then you open that the next day. No, we open it that day. That day. So by next meeting we would have we would know what the bid number is. I can imagine being a landscape. Are we allowed to get that information, Pete? Or do we have to foil it or something? Just how I don't care who it is. Just how much just how much they're charging. I think you're building a zoning to bring that in information. Okay. You can come to the fles say it becomes trouble record. You can bid on them. You like to cut neighbors. You should looking for something to do now.

You might need a bigger law and know a guy who sells them. Yeah, you might. So you might That might be a conflict of interest. Good point. Good point. That could be a conflict of interest chairman buying from the supervisor. I don't I don't want that. I don't want Kilmer to get a hold of that one. Okay, let's let's So we somebody going to write up our init? Well, it's taped. It's taped. Okay. So, let's make a motion to table for next meeting for the other four members. Do our homework. We finish it for sure. Next meeting. Second. I'll second. Second by Greg. All in favor?

Any any further discussion before we're good? All in favor. Okay. So, we're all set. Um, yes. Motion to adjurnn. So, moved. Second. Second. All in favor? I Yeah.