City Council - Regular Meeting

are we good? Yeah. Okay.

Good evening everyone and welcome to the Troy City Council. Uh this is what we've come to call committee night. We have uh four committees that will be meeting this evening. Uh the action that there will be no official action taken. We will be debating and uh discussing a number of items. Uh but before we get underway, I would ask that you join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Council member Dorenzo, present. Council member Strer, present. Council member McLaren, present. Council member McKe, present. Council member Favro, present. Council member Campbell Cohen, present. The entire council is present. The first committee that will be meeting this evening is science and technology chaired by Councilwoman Strouer. So I turn the mic over to her.

Thank you, Council President. Calling to order the Science and Technology Committee meeting at 5:32 p.m. Uh we just called roll. I am not going to do that again. I'm just going to mark you all down here. All right. Might we have members of the sustainability task force with us today?

Good evening, council members. I am awaiting Harris Eisenhart's presence. Well, let's start by introducing yourself and what you've been doing for the sustainability task force in the last couple of years.

Absolutely. So, I'm Daniel Moresy and I'm the acting chairperson of the sustainability task force and we have been working on a number of different initiatives. Uh we were campaigning really hard on the clean energy uh clean energy communities pro program through NAERTA for for some amount of time probably about two and a half years. Uh that program is on pause right now through NAERTA. They closed the last round and we're waiting for it to reopen sometime this spring. Uh so we'll we'll have more news on that uh forthcoming. And our current campaign is climate smart communities and the deadline is end of May. So we'd like to propose uh that we that we move forward as su as soon as possible with climate smart communities. We have arranged for more points than we need uh to qualify for the program for bronze certification which is the first big step. and Harris Eisenhart has done a whole lot of work uh coordinating with the city administration, Jack Kissinger, D. Ziggler, and yourself, Chicole Struber. And we anticipate that this will sail right through as long as the the committee passes it on to uh the full council and uh we can vote or you can vote on it next month.

Thank you. And I'm going to give the people in the room a little bit of background for those that are less familiar with the sustainability task force and climate smart communities. Uh the sustainability task force came into effect based on Troy's charter back in 2012. Uh it has been dormant the last couple of years in that nobody had been appointed to it to be doing any kind of specific sustainability work. And Daniel has been doing his best in the meantime and we are here hopefully to reinvigorate that task force because there are a lot of opportunities for Troy uh especially with the climate smart communities initiative that he just mentioned. uh if we can get certified for that, which I'm sure will be spoken about in a moment, uh there's a lot of grant money that we can take advantage of to improve things in the city like sidewalks, uh solar panels, many different initiatives that the city can do. Welcome. Would you like to introduce yourself for everybody?

Thank you. I apologize for being late. My name is Harris Eisenhart. I'm also participating and I've been helping out with the CSC certification effort. Nice to meet you all. Thank you. Um I have a couple of specific questions for you guys just to give an overview to people uh with who you are, what you bring to the table for the sustainability task force and how this can help Troy. Um, can you give us a brief overview of the climate smart communities program and some of the initiatives that I know you all have been taking in the last couple of years? Sure.

Yep. Yeah, happy to. So, the um climate smart communities program is administered by the DEEC. It's a state level program and any community in New York State is eligible to become certified. There's different tiers of certification and it's a point-based program. So, actions dictate how many points a community can achieve. And uh evidently Troy has already done much of the work uh over the last decade or so in terms of completing these actions. Certain actions are just core parts of our community like the farmers market is eligible for points for example. Others are slightly more of an undertaking like conducting a greenhouse gas inventory for municipal operations within the city. So there's a very wide spectrum of topics that are covered by the actions. And really what our responsibility is is compiling the work that's been done, all the documentation that exists and demonstrating to the DEEC that we are eligible for. At this point, we're aiming for the bronze tier of certification. There's also a silver tier of certification which requires more points and more actions. Uh but we think that bronze is certainly attainable um and just need to take a couple steps to become formally recognized and put together that documentation with all of your help to get there.

Thank you. And do you happen to know how many points are required and how many Troy has already? So for bronze certification, 120 points is the threshold to reach and by our current calculations of what we've pulled together, we are going to surpass that. So we'll be on the way to silver. Um but we're not quite at the number of points we need to get silver. So bronze will be our first stop. And I also just want to acknowledge the amazing support of Seammens uh who contracts with the city. Uh we've been coordinating with Shadric Treat uh is that yeah Shad yeah uh at Seammens and yeah they they've done a lot of the background work uh that set us up for this program including uh you know converting the street lights throughout the city to LEDs and doing the municipal energy audits of the buildings we own and lease like this one. Uh and yeah they've been an amazing help. So, uh, appreciative to the administration for allowing us to coordinate with them.

Awesome. Uh, do you, you may not know this. I'm going to ask the same question of the people from the administration who are going to be talking. Um, can you tell us about some of the current city initiatives that might be able to be financially supported by this program once we get certified?

It's a great question. I'm not sure that I would I would defer to the administration. I'm not sure that I would want to just kind of answer that um without consultation and I would I would expect that it would be sustainable land use initiatives uh renewable energy and clean energy implementation for city buildings. uh electric vehicle fleet implementation um you know at especially when vehicles are aging out uh when we need to buy new vehicles for the fleet and uh so forth.

Thank you. I just wanted to give people an idea of some of the ways that it could help Troy. Um, I also wanted to highlight the work that Harris has been doing, uh, who is hopefully after the next meeting going to be the climate smart communities coordinator. Uh, can you tell us all what that entails and what you are taking on for our benefit?

Sure. Um, so the part of the program there's there's two base requirements of the program. one of which is to have a coordinator for the community and another is to have the task force as well. So part of our kind of joint resolution is to appoint myself as the coordinator and then the folks that we've specified in the resolution for the broader task force. If you look on the DEC's website of how you actually obtain the certification, those are the first two line items to to complete. Um so you don't have to have those completed before you can start work on the rest of the actions and that's the philosophy that we've had um in our capacity right now. Um so what we've done is just discuss okay of the work that the city has completed over the last decade or so what fits within the actions that we know right now. And the philosophy behind that was if we don't have to put more money towards this at the present time it'll set us up well to obtain certification and then later on devote resources to the higher levels of certification. Um so last time we were here a year ago two years ago. Okay, I forgot. Um, we talked about seeking funds for a program that we would need to do greenhouse gas inventorying and accounting. And since then, we've been able to work with the Capital District Regional Planning Coalition Commission. Thank you. Um, who has the resources to do that already. So, we worked with them and were able to not necessarily need those funds and still complete the documentation required for that action. So um really I would say the majority has been finding the right proof and evidence of what has been completed. So Daniel mentioned street lights for example that's an action having converted a certain percentage of street lights to LEDs. Um the same with traffic

signals is another example. The farmers market I mentioned. Uh we have complete streets code as well that is eligible for points. Um and so yeah, really the work that we've done so far has just been to pull that all together. And with um having our resolutions passed, that'll be a total of 30 points that will push us over the line to be able to submit to the DEEC. And the last point I'll add too is that we've been in contact with the DEEC as well just in terms of understanding can we have review of the work that we've done so far and so we can better assure that we'll be able to achieve that certification when it comes time to submit and they've been cooperative and helpful in that regard as well. So we're prepared once we have this resolution passed to submit the full package.

Thank you. Is there anybody else on the committee who has questions? Chair, I just have one question. Um, is the the greenhouse gases inventory complete or it's undergoing or you're undergoing that? It is complete. So, it was actually um a regional greenhouse gas inventory that Capital District Regional Planning Commission undertook a couple years ago and completed approximately a year ago. Um, and so we were able to draw from their dashboard and kind of just quantify, you know, the municipal uses. Okay. Yeah. How did we do?

Pretty average. The points are for completing it, right? Not for the the score on the inventory.

That's correct. That's correct. We do. So, it is it's now publicly available at the library. Um, one of the separate requirements of that action is to post it so that the community can consume it, understand it, ask questions. So, we've made it available. Um, there's been a overall reduction. I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 35% since the baseline in 2012. So, that's great. Um, there's many factors that can, you know, result in in that um, electrification improvements and efficiency and whatnot. But we also as a part of that have to outline you know what initiatives are ongoing that we think will help with that trend and other areas we want to explore as well. So um that's all included. Okay. Thank you.

All right. I think that's all I have for the two of you unless there's anything more you want to add. Yeah, I'll just add another point to something you raised earlier, which is once we achieve bronze certification, we will be eligible for more points towards DEEC grants. So, sustainable land use grants, um, clean energy, sorry, climate smart communities grants that will be released. They they don't have a program open right now, but it will reopen within the next six months. and uh we'll you know we'll have a leg up on the competition so to speak.

Thank you. And then I think my next group of questions if there's anybody from the administration involved in this would love to ask you some questions. Uh I don't know if Jack is here tonight. I'm also unsure. Okay. I can get with him later if needed. That's fine. Yep. Yeah. I don't see Mayor Mantella right now, but um Yeah. All right. Well, thank you both. We appreciate it and I think I think we are good on sustainability task force and climate smart communities for today.

Great. Thank you for your work. Thank you. Appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you all. Thanks. I was hoping that we would do updates on the BSS project next, but it sounds like Mayor Mantel might not be here yet. Oh, okay. She's in the back.

The chief, I think, is Good. Thank you. How are you? You're welcome.

Long time no see. Uh, sort of more than you. I have a granola bar if you need it.

Thank you. And I really uh want to commend these two folks and Jared Behringer, our assistant. Um, Deputy Commissioner Carlo um Jimmy um and his team did an incredible job getting this uh kicked off and just really looking at kind of a skeleton. So, we'll go through these quickly. Um uh Chief Saluchi has done an awesome job also like I mentioned with Jared and this at least gives us something to work off of. So, uh, we'll go through it, but we, you know, won't go line by line. Um, one of the things just very quickly that, you know, I asked code and I asked our fire department um, folks to look at is where can we look at potentially placing a battery energy storage facility if um, if we are interested in that. We know um that there's some benefits obviously um getting off the grid reducing that carbon footprint um however at the same time there's a lot of unknowns about vest so first I want to ask the I want to thank the council for putting a six-month moratorum um but this at least um kind of gives kind of that um 2,000 foot level looking at the zoning looking at setbacks. Um looking at various fire code requirements, emergency planning, some of the noise standards, security, um decommissioning, and um you know, obviously for um a bond uh uh to be put down for security

reasons and then um just some permit conditions. So, um, like I said, this kind of gives us a road map to go through to start looking at what we plan to propose to put in the code. Um, so, you know, I'll uh at this point hand off to Carlo, hand off to Chief Saluchi. We can kind of go through these, but not line by line. We'll go over them um kind of in a macro sense, give you kind of the thoughts that we were thinking of, and then we can take it from there. And obviously, you know, in between this and our next meeting, we can talk between then and talk about like some of the things that you're thinking of also. But the the main point with this was um the more research that we've looked into with BEST, the more we're finding out in a very populated area, it's not a good idea to put a battery battery energy storage facility and more look at setbacks and industrial areas where it really makes sense. Um, so I'll hand it off to Carlo and the chief. And then lastly, we'll just talk to you about some of our next steps, a site visit, um, to the Hudson Valley to look at a bus and some other things. So, go for it, Carla.

Good evening, council. Uh, yeah. So, what you see in front of you is us and the the code enforcement and the fire department and the mayor's office kind of going through uh other ordinances, other municipalities talking to other municipalities and coming up with what they have as far as setbacks, screenings, decommissioning, um fire services, training, everything. So, this is pretty much phase one of some of the bulletin points to start an ordinance on the best. And I know it's in front of you. It's tough because you only had a few minutes to read it, but if there's any questions you guys have with it. I mean, it's a lot of it's mostly clear, but if you have any questions for me or the chief, we can kind of go over what some of these bullet points mean to you guys.

I have I had a couple of questions based on what I've read so far. Um, can you tell us how under section three it says fire department access with a minimum 20 foot wide fire apparatus access road. How does that relate to other fire code that exists right now so we can put that into perspective?

Yes. So, right now with the building code, uh, anytime you were to, um, obviously if you came to planning and you were putting up a new building or every anything, you have to have a fire access road and it's, uh, approved by the AHJ, which is myself and a fire department. And, uh, it's a 20 minute or it's a 20 foot minimum in the code for an access road, whether it's a main street. So, if you're building on Four Street, that would be an access road. But if you're putting this where there's not a main street and you have to build a street to it, it has to be a minimum of 20 ft around it. So this is technically already in code. We're just specifying that we need to keep it for the bees system. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Uh similarly with the and the reasoning behind that too is if you put it into an industrial zone and there's not and you're they're building a road to get into it um which you see at some sites in other municipalities is that that road would have to meet the minimum standard of a fire apparatus. It couldn't just be like gravel. It would have to be able so that they could bring the rigs up it and it would have to be a good condition. Okay. Thank you. That makes sense. Um, under the noise standards, similar question with the maximum that's listed here. How does that relate to the maximum that's already in code?

Um, it doesn't. This is like I said, it's just standards that uh we've looked at other municipalities and and looking at the best program, but that stuff is part of the code, the noise. Um, is that is that what your question was? Yeah. Yes. in code right now like we have noise ordinances and I'm pretty sure it mentions a maximum level both for uh business and residential. So how does this relate to the current maximums that are in code? It does. It's so this is completely new. No, no, this is actually what what the uh New York State is requiring for noise ordinance for this. Yeah, for this. Yes, for this this Okay, so it's it would be new to Okay, thank you.

Yes, I'm sorry. It's a nice recommendations.

Does anybody else on the committee have questions? Sure. Yeah. Um so this is as you've described sort of a framework. Um how much of this has already been accomplished? No, this would be um like a new se what we plan to do is go to the council with a new section that would you know address correct. Correct. Um and um we would also I think um you had talked about Carlo a special use variance. Um I think you should talk about that.

Yeah. So in phase two of this next time coming to the council is coming up with uh the map of Troy and the zones in the districts and what would require a special use permit what areas and then the areas where they would need zoning board requirements or you know what I mean and obviously these would go to planning because they would need to uh and all that stuff but the mapping part is phase two and seeing where these actually fit in the city of Troy and bringing it to you and and kind of showing you where where it is. So this part here is just the bullet points that would be in the new ordinance and then the mapping and the special use permits and stuff like that will be phase two if that makes sense.

And our goal you figure it's been what two months I think since the moratorum um we'll have legislation before you know that six months. So I figure that fifth or you know right before the six months will come to the council with a packet of legislation. I know that Carlo, I know that Jared, I'm not sure about the chief. Um, do want to visit a couple sites that have the battery energy storage facilities and um we have not sat down with legal yet. So, we're going to get them involved as early as possible to make sure that they help, you know, obviously um draft the legislation for the packet.

Okay. But it kind of gives you and you know, council member uh Strooper, we can talk between this. I know you're spearheading it on behalf of the council as the chair. We can communicate in between now and the next meeting. If you want to join for the site visit, that'd be great, too. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions? Could I even though I'm not on the committee? I'm fine with that. Okay. Um do you uh you mentioned that this is based on what you've seen from other municipalities. Can you share some of the municipalities that have had 500 foot minimum setbacks?

Yeah, we looked at uh Warwick where they had the um the fire and we looked at I believe Bingmpington and there was another one. If you give me a few minutes, I get it for you uh before the end of the night. I'd have to go back and look at my computer. I'll get it for you.

And I I appreciate that this is still being put together and this is a framework, but um for for the 500 foot minimum, is that going to be uniform across like all scales of best facil like a 20 megawatt. So, what it'll be is if you obviously if you could meet this 500 minimum and you wouldn't have to go for an area variance, but if you can't meet it, this this will be part of a thing where if you're coming to zoning for the use, you would come for an area variance as well. If you can't meet that 500 ft, okay?

So, it's it's basically like a house. You know, you got minimum and maximum distances you can have from the setbacks, but if you can't meet it or you want to go encroach further, you would go in front of zoning and you would come up with a reasoning for it. Okay, I think we can dive into it later. And I'm I'm not pretending to be a subject matter expert. My impression is this is a pretty big setback relative to what I've seen in other places, but I could be wrong. But yeah, but also it also gives the residents in the area, if you get closer to their homes, it gives them a chance to come to zoning and ask for other type of screening, maybe noise controls and stuff like that. It kind of gives it to where um it doesn't hinder on residential neighborhoods as well.

Okay. I think we'll probably have to revisit it, but I appreciate your answer. Yes, no problem. All right. Is there anything more that you guys want to share on the BSS?

All right. Thank you very much. I think we might also have somebody here from Soul Source about one of the units. Uh Kaylee, do you want to speak for a bit? Hello everyone. Um, as Shakle just said, my name is Kaylee. For those of you who have not met yet, um, I'm a project developer with Soul Source. Um, Soul Source Power, one of the companies proposing a battery storage project in the city of Troy. We're actually based out of Troy. So this is you know one of the only place is the only place I can say that it's in our backyard. Um but yeah I just want to introduce myself. I've been following very closely kind of the mortorium and what's going on and just you know be a resource truly you know I do this every day for more than eight hours a day kind of looking where you can put these facilities. It's basically my job. So you know I'd love to answer any questions you have. have I know Paul from ESRG was here last time on behalf of of this project to answer fire safety questions. He did a fantastic job. You know, I'm happy to also answer any more questions if I can that you have. Um but you know I just want to say that you know the new fire code standards that have been you know set in place you know re relooked at by you know the working group

bless you

um you know are very robust and you know we we will be in compliance with all of those all of our equipment all of our specifications and I'm confident that the location we're looking to do and just for everyone's edification we're looking in South Troy off of Main Street across the street from South Troy Diner that half an acre lot. You know, I'm I'm very confident that with the regulations in place and with the code that Troy is working on now that this will be a, you know, very safe and sustainable development for the Troy. Um, you know, like I said, I I brought some flyers here today, just FAQs, kind of the big questions we usually get for these systems. I'm happy to stay after and hand them out to the council or anyone that's here that's interested. I also have my business card here, too. you know, really just want to be a resource for everybody and, you know, make this not a black box of unknown and a very open box of known. So, yeah, along those lines, uh, we did have Paul here last time and he was very good with the fire safety aspect, but did you want to talk about any of the benefits to the community that you've seen with other projects, what you're expecting in Troy?

Absolutely. That's a great question and we can there's kind of two we can answer in two different ways. We can kind of zoom out a little bit. So the big picture here why battery storage at this size. So just to kind of put in perspective for everyone, we're looking at a roughly 5 megawatt project which is roughly 10,000 square feet. So that's kind of you know not residential size but also not multiple acres of battery utility scale. This is kind of at the community level. New York State has identified this as a critical need to be rolled out across the state. You know, the the grid, it's a bit critical at this point. You know, the grid needs these these systems to be put in place. Um, so that's why companies like us are incentivized to now go and and find places to do this. the battery, you know, h how it works, how it'll work in this case is, you know, it'll it'll trickle charge at night when no one's using electricity and then during the peak hours of the day, it'll discharge back onto the grid. What that does is, you know, it increases grid reliability, you know, on on really really hot days when everyone's turning on their AC or really cold days where you might be experiencing brownouts. These systems can increase reliability, sustainability, and really just act as critical support for the grid. Additional benefits for the community is you know o over time that peak you get in electricity prices that'll be smoothed out over time with these systems and in the end will reduce costs for all the citizens that use electricity. So that's another really big benefit. You know of course it also adds you know a tax base revenue for the town to implement these these systems. And then lastly, from a sustainable, you know, incentive, with more of these systems going across the state, we will be able to shut down, you know, peaker plants, you know, instead of needing to, and just to explain that a little bit, you know, large, expensive, and, you know, bad for the environment fossil fuel plants, you won't need to fire those up on days of really high extreme demand. Instead, these batteries will will be able to offset that. So, from a

sustainability perspective, um, those are also some some big benefits. Thank you. Sounds like you should talk to Daniel and Harris before you leave. No, absolutely.

Um I think that's all that I had for you unless there was more you want. No, I I don't think that the last point, you know, I think I would just like like to make is, you know, there's also that's kind of the big question of why. There's also sometimes a question of, you know, why this specific location? You know, I I get that a lot in in communities I go to. And you know, the truth is there's a really really long list of boxes that that need to be checked to get any of these projects up and running. So, of course, there's zoning. You know, you want to be in a good zone. You know, for this site, for example, you know, it's currently used as construction equipment storage. So, places like that where it's being commercially used currently are usually good places to then do this. It's been previously disturbed and things like that. Another really critical one that people forget about is interconnection. you know there there needs to be infrastructure existing you know to to a certain extent for us to be interconnecting too. So if that's not available you know sometimes people say why don't you just go put it in the middle of nowhere in these farm fields you know miles away from everyone. Well we can't do that because there's no grid infrastructure there and it it it wouldn't actually help anything and it's simply impossible at that point to do that. So that along with a you know I could talk to you all day long about a lot of other factors. Those are just some of the very critical ones. And also a parcel that's large enough that has interest from the owner of that parcel. Um, you know, there's you can be considering species. You be considering wetlands. When you start tacking on all of these these, I guess, constraints, you could call it, you're really only left with a couple parcels in in most cities or towns that are viable. So, so that's just, you know, I'm happy to go into even greater detail and even do a write up about this site specifically that we're proposing, but that that's just one last thing I want to leave everyone with.

Thank you, Kaylee. We appreciate it. Of course. Thank you. Does Did anybody else have something for Kaylee before she Oh, go ahead. I would just suggest that you uh leave the materials with the clerk. Yes. Thank you. Kay, we have what? We had one other question. Yes. Sorry.

I just wonder I know you didn't have the document in front of you, but from the discussion about what we got about the city's phase one, did you hear anything that kind of set off a a thought that maybe Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think really only one. You know, everything was fairly standard. Decommissioning bonds, yes, absolutely. Um, you know, noise always something we're considering being compliant with ordinances. 20 foot wide, fire safe access, absolutely. The one thing that's different in different town, cities is the setback. Um,

500 is is on the higher end of one I've ever seen, especially in a city, just considering how usually cities are more dense. Um, I haven't seen that yet, but that's the only slightly atypical maybe but to your point I Yeah. gotcha. Thank you. Thank you. Of course, one more question follow up on that one. Uh for a typical city, what's a common setback for?

Yeah. So, it's actually funny the setback in this underlying zone and then another one I'm in the city of Albany considering it's actually sometimes zero feet to the fence, right? Because when you're an industrial lot and you know they usually use most of the lot. Um, but I've also seen the last close one was 25 and then and then 60. Okay. And usually in Zara, usually that is also to the edge of the battery facility. Usually the fence can go within the setback. It kind of depends. There's kind of different, sometimes jurisdictions call it a buffer zone, a setback that you're allowed to put different things in. Okay. Awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. I think that was the end of what was on the agenda for science and technology. I would be open to a motion to adjurnn. Motion second. All in favor? I I next up is general services uh chaired by councilwoman Favro. Mike is in up to you.

Thank you council president. So, I'd like to call the general services committee meeting to order at 6:08 p.m. All C all committee members are present. Uh, committee member Favro, Dorenzo, and Campbell Cohen, as is the rest of the council. So, thank you for that. So on this evening's agenda item, uh we specifically wanted to discuss Frier Park and all of the updates that are going to be happening over the next year or so. So, thank you for joining me. Hello. Uh, with us we have our deputy mayor, Sheamus Stanley. We have our general services commissioner who's a little under the weather, Joe Maserello. We have Nick Schwarz. He's from uh, Cluff Harbor, CHA. um he is essentially designing and um is the mastermind behind the the future of Fair Park. And then we have Josh Spiel who um oversees Fair Park and is just a huge asset. Um as we know, Fair Park is more than a golf course. Um we're all aware it's a huge gem. Uh the two parks as you know and we appreciate the council's support are under are going to

undergo major major upgrades. The North Lake Park will be a completely new park. It will be a handicap accessible park, but also um be a park that will be all inclusive for all kinds of kids, not just kids with disabilities, kids on the spectrum, but your everyday average kids. So, we can get families in there. And, you know, it's not exclusive um to one or the other. So, it's going to be one of the first of its kind. I know in the Capitol region if not uh the full state. So Nick thinks the full state. Um but saying that we all know the equipment's like 25 30 years old. Um long overdue. Can't get uh wheelchairs into the park right now. It's totally on a hill. Um seniors, you name it, strollers, it's just not accessible. So we're really looking forward to that. You probably already also saw um that we took away that makeshift parking lot on North Lake and we plan to do the second phase of that. Um we have um right now it's used as a trail. Um we'll be putting landscaping there, crush stone, etc. We really look at the back of the park, North Lake A, as one of our gateways. Um, not just into the park, but it's on the border of Brunswick. Lots of folks travel through there. Head down through the park. We have a second to none golf course. $3 million over the last several years. It literally is one of the best golf courses, municipal golf courses, um, in the Northeast, not just the Capitol region, New York State, but the Northeast. And that's due to the

superintendent and Greg. They just do an awesome job. Um the plan is for the park by the ice rink. As you know, ARPA money has been uh appropriated for both parks and that park will get a complete overhaul. Once again, we had an ARPA steering committee earlier today and we were talking about the park and you know the park has long overdue aged equipment. One of our most used parks in the city. Drive through there any Saturday. Multiple birthdays. Council President, can you please folks in the hall? I apologize that we do not have seats, but I would ask that you please keep the volume down. We cannot hear. Hello in the back. Thank you for your patience and your cooperation. Okay, we'll keep it rolling. Um, so the ice ring park, the park by the ice ring, total upgrade um over where the tent is and uh the tent will be going back up this year for uh the season. As we know, not just golfers um eat at the golf course or at uh Frera Park. Many folks of all ages um love to have a bite at Fre Park. We know it's an all year round park. We have sledding. There's going to be landscaping upgrades. There's going to be uh more barbecues, and certainly take advantage of the water. There's going to be new tennis courts, pickle ball courts, and uh the restaurant. Um, we will uh be seeing the demo h

happening hopefully um I'm thinking the next couple months the demo will happen. Uh bids went out for the restaurant event space and the uh tent uh to entice obviously folks for all year round. We're looking at the former park pub as the site for the restaurant uh for the event space. So would be in that same spot. Um but also um down the hill a little bit. The parking lot would see major upgrades also for the parking. Uh the council president and I spoke earlier. the council president and the council. Uh Nick, I have informed that the lighting um that some type of camouflage, so the lighting is not going into the neighborhood or be directed toward people's homes that obviously we be sensitive to that also. So, thank you uh council president. Um as I mentioned, the temp would be going up. We're going to talk tonight about the draft timeline and what we're looking at. And obviously the public input sessions are key for the parks and for the restaurant. Um, so we're looking at late April for the public input sessions for the playgrounds and then uh potentially a midappril or midday uh before Memorial Day for the restaurant. And um you know the goal is to get the uh uh ice park up and run or the ice park done by the end of the year. and I'll let Nick um and Sheamus uh talk about some other uh timelines. So,

and then we'll open it up for questions.

Great. Thank you very much, Miss Mayor. Uh my name is Nick Schwarz from CHA. I'm a principal landscape architect and I am the project manager for the Fair Park improvement project. So, as as the mayor said, you know, we're really excited about getting out getting public input for both the um the playgrounds project and the uh restaurant. So, again, you know, late April for the public input sessions for the playgrounds and then midmay for the um the restaurant input session. uh you know, kind of kind of looking down the road. We're looking at a um you know, late summer um build for the uh the ice rink playground and have that complete this year uh beginning generally or early fall on the North Lake and having that one be completed by the time um May June rolls around in the springtime of next year. Uh and then as we're kind of moving through the uh the others, um really looking to get um you know the project out to bid for the restaurant this year and you know having construction um you know moving through the the 2027 season. So that's generally the schedule, you know, kind of large scale schedule that we have right now. Um and looking to improve upon that in any way we can. And I have a question for that. Um, you mentioned that the ice rink playground would be done this late summer. Is the public going to be um asked for any community input for that playground?

As I mentioned, in uh toward the end of April, we'll have the public input sessions for both playgrounds. Okay. Yep. Yeah. And for transparency for the folks in the room, um, as you mentioned, we had an ARPA meeting earlier this this afternoon and we have a total of 1.5 million still available for both of those playgrounds. Yeah. I didn't know if you had anything else to add before I jumped into questions. Okay. Um so tonight I basically wanted to focus on the um RFP that went out earlier this month on March 5th. Um and for those who might be unaware, so this was a proposal that people could submit for the new Frerier Park restaurant event and golf course operator. Um and it closes on March 29th. So, I was just curious if today if we've had anyone submit proposals. They don't normally submit them till the last day, but um we're being cautiously optimistic. A lot of interest um from various folks that we've heard and I think collectively we would all agree on that. Has there been any feedback or consideration for having two separate vendors? Um, not being somebody who's been in the restaurant business, but I don't know how difficult it is to scale from being in a tent to being in a brand new facility. Has any issues come up with that yet?

Not at all. And quite frankly, having uh both the tent and the restaurant actually incentivizes more folks because it would be all year round. So, I'll let Shane add on that front, but um we see it as more of an incentive and we've heard that. So, most who are potentially looking at this are easily capable of transitioning and doing both. into uh that point, the mayor's point, council member, is that you know, the way that the RFP uh was written as well is that it's to make it clear about that you you know, you will be operating in that tent that first year um going into the next season. So, you know, we wanted to be completely upfront and transparent with folks that, you know, you logistically need to be up to handle that. Um uh and as you might have seen through here, we did try to structure it that uh the longer you are in the more permanent space, you can see that we were asking for uh you know more of the uh fee collection annual payments uh from the future proprietor as well. So we did take that into account. Um and one person that's not sitting at the table that I do want to thank as well as our city engineer Chris Marini put a lot of work into this as well. Kevin Greyber, our recreation supervisor. So, you know, there's a group of us that have been working on this for a bit.

Okay. Um, and I forgot to mention at the top of the meeting to to just to say thank you for listening to the community feedback and deciding to rebuild in the location of the current um park pub. Um, so I did have some questions written down here about the current old park pub. Um, so you mentioned that demolition was going to start in a couple of months. Um, I'm assuming a study was completed to review the structural integrity of the building. We have a very extensive engineering report on the building and that actually occurred um way before right now because obviously we made a very conscious decision and public safety decision um to not to actually close the old park pub. It had numerous public safety public health major concerns. And who completed that study?

So it I mean CHA was part of it early on. our uh former city engineer Russ Reeves also uh was working on um you know has come up with some reports and stuff and that's that's what's kind of started this succession of planning reporting reviewing um of that building and then what what comes next and that current building what is the square footage of it? Do does anybody remember what that is? It's approximately 3500 square feet. Okay. So bigger than a little bit more. Yeah,

when you add in the that's the billing proper. When you add in the the covered awning space, that's probably another, you know, 1,500,600 square f feet. Can you tell I've never eaten there? I can't wait for the new facility. Reveal that. It was a wonderful establishment.

A little hard for the vegans. Um um so I see that in the proposal that um a pro shop will be included as well in the new space. Is is that included in the 4,000 square foot that's been proposed or is that is it going to be in addition to

it? It would be encompassing of that amount as well. Keep in mind the 4,000 square foot that we're still there's still design on this structure that has to be done. Uh you could see that be a little smaller, a little bigger. And if I I think that it's um worth noting too just just for your understanding that um the former park pub although might have certain square footage uh I think that everybody could agree that some of it it was um it was it was tough space to use very small small kitchen hard to maneuver through the main uh building. There was a little bit of a a larger room that would get used for overflow sometimes, events. That's your very that's the newest part of it. That's your typical uh rectangle squared uh building and uh the deck as well too. So, I just do think it's it's worth noting that the square footage was very tough to maneuver. Um, another thing, uh, as well with the kitchen being very small, I mean, it's, um, God bless them that they operated in that for for that long as someone that has worked in a kitchen, uh, you know, which wouldn't be wouldn't be favorable uh, to a new proprietor as well. So, I just for your for your background thought that'd be worth noting.

And how much are we expect? Oh, sorry. just also um great idea um by Sheamus by Josh Beiel um and all of us uh with the pro shop um even if you're non- golfer if you've been to other golf courses or the restaurant I want to say you will find a very you know uh nice pro shop literally right outside of the restaurant so you know it's perfect and easy to walk in, accessible for folks rather than having it outside. So, having it connected made really good sense like Fair um what is it? Fair View.

Yeah, Fairway, sorry, HalfLoon uh Milro, many others um municipal and private um have them connected to the restaurant and event space. So, um, how much is expected to be spent on the demolition of the building? Do we have any idea? And how is that going to be funded? There's ARPA demolition money.

Yeah. And I would it would be uh Yes, there's ARPA demolition money. Speculating on the exact cost. uh you know once we get there we can definitely provide that to the council but um just being involved in some dem it is kind of tough to pin down and again kind of the way that structure is I I'd imagine it would uh it could lean towards a little bit in the realm of that size square footage where demos are concerned it could be a little bit more expensive but um yes there is ARPA funding there ready for it to be used which helps save the total project of spending for the total project which is a plus Yeah, I did see that this afternoon as we were going over that. Um, how much was the previous tenant paying at that old facility? Do you

I do recall the commission right about 1500 about 1,500 a month. Yes.

And was there any revenue sharing agreement with that prior? There was not and we have found uh from our understanding legally it's difficult to for municipality to get into kind a profit sharing agreement with a private entity because council member that's pretty much exactly where my head went right away. Um you know uh and uh that is something that that is something that um from what I've been told legally um can be tough to structure. I'm not aware if it's been done anywhere else. Um but you know that's that we hear some legal issues when it comes to that. Um also too just one thing to note out that another difference here u from a legal perspective uh this instead of being a lease is a is a is a licensing agreement. uh which we found other uh municipalities have utilized which also kind of helps the municipality uh in several ways as well.

I only asked because um I saw that it was noted in the RFP that quarterly revenue um and expense reports were going to be required. Um so I was just curious if that was something that you were looking to change in the future or why those would be required. Yeah. So, they're required. So, uh you know, let's just talk about the process that we're in right now. So, since those were really never required or you're you're you're leaving the municipality, uh which is really the, you know, is the the landlord, the owner of the property, unaware of what's really coming in or whatnot. So, it will be helpful especially when you're looking to uh what is future rents going to look like or what are future fees that the proprietor should be paying. um you know so having that reporting could help in the future to gauge exactly how profitable uh the business is. So that's really for a knowledge information collecting standpoint. Um that's why we did throw that reporting in there that really was never done in the past.

Yeah. No, I think it's a great idea. Um and how long was that uh $1,500 a month agreement in place for? Do do we know he was there? He was there a total of 17 years. I believe it went up to 1,500 month a month about 10 years ago. That's not exact, but I'm pretty sure that's when it went to 1,500 a month.

Okay. And and the tenants or the lency, I don't know what the agreement was last year in the uh tent that was used, how much did they pay? Is it similar to what's going to be required this year? So they they actually paid so that that proprietor was actually operating as a subleasaser to the existing lease. Again, that um and that that that proprietor that ran that at at once upon a time was uh a business partner of the previous uh proprietor of the Park Pub. um you know that uh the the former proprietor wanted to wind down um and subleasasing it uh because that uh agreement had another extension in it and the ability to subleasase um that's where that came from. So the the lease elements had to stay the same. The commissioner did just remind me too that we we have always um you know the proprietor pays utility bills and and stuff like that and that's also something that we will be doing with the new proprietor as well. And how much did that sub lease pay per month?

That was a the 1,500. So So it's it was the same amount that the uh the lease was.

Okay. Um let's see. I already asked that question. So um talking about expenses in the RFP, it states that um at least 5 million will be invested in this new structure. um not the playgrounds and tennis courts just for this new restaurant. Um we spoke this afternoon uh because 3 million has already been bonded for. Um and I was just curious to hear I haven't disclosed to the rest of the council where the remaining $2 million is expected to come from. So, there is um almost a million dollars left in ARPA funding for the restaurant. And again, this uh you know, when you're putting out an RFP um especially when we have community uh input left to do, we have uh the council to work with along with it as well. Um this was just to show what the vision and the design roughly would be at this point. Um it could result in us coming back to the council uh for more. there was a uh a bond resolution that authorized up to 6 million. Um you know, if we after seeing uh the plans zeroing in on a on the budget a little bit more um you know, we could come back to the council and it might require more funding. But that's why I think it's good that we're it may not as well just going off of our earlier conversation with that we might have some ARPA funds that have to shift as well. So there is some dust that needs to settle a little bit over the next coming months. Um, but that's why I think that it's good that we are doing this uh meeting now and that the administration, the council work together to have this uh public opportunity so we're just getting a little bit ahead of the game with rolling out the plans not just to the council but the public so each step of the way we can all be on the same page as we're making decisions.

Yes, thank you. Um, and for the rest of the council, I just wanted to share that I had done some math on the current proposal of $5 million um, with a 30-year bond at I did a 4.5% uh, interest rate. Um, that would cost taxpayers or we would be paying $37,000 a year in debt payments for the pub. If we multiplied that payment um by the 30 years, in total we would be spending $9.2 million um for this new restaurant. Um we also can subtract out um the total revenue that we would be bringing in through rent um from this um tenant. and at 5 years um they would be paying was it $8,500 a month? So that would approximately be um about $100,000 a year. So subtracting out that revenue at year five, it would still cost the taxpayers uh $25,000 a year. Um, and so that's just something to think about like dollars of of what this is going to cost us. Um,

share. Sure. If I may, are you I did have more questions, but if you wanted to add to that.

I I wanted to um just expound um we know listen the the golf course um literally it has taken years for us to even have a wash. Our fair park is not a per se dollar fordoll revenue generator. um the restaurant, the parks, it's a destination. Um much like our Nick Pool, our Nick ice rink, um these are amenities for the public. And when you talk about a golf course, when you talk about sleigh riding, when you talk about all the folks, whether it's snowshoeing, cross-country skiing, the hockey folks, uh, tea, the tournaments, everything that happens at Fair Park, the folks that walk, the folks that fish, um, the folks that have birthday parties, the event space, it also has that economic impact that is not directly to the people of Troy. So when we look at our restaurants, when we look at our our restaurant, when we look at our parks, when we look at our trails, it's all about making Troy a better place to live. It's all about getting families to invest in Troy. And when you provide those public amenities and the restaurant, I don't look at the restaurant as a penny for penny or dollar for dollar. We have to invest in various uh you know amenities and various projects in Troy that may not pan out to make money. Um, you know, the city of Troy, while we protect every penny for our taxpayers and we look at

every expense very carefully, when it comes to our parks and things to that nature, it is sometimes difficult to capture that nondirect economic impact. So I just wanted you know to really ex because you know the canal uh which I worked at people would constantly say we're spending $80 million to operate to maintain you know this archaic canal but the indirect economic benefit to the communities along the canal was in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So on that note, that restaurant, that park is so much more than that penny for penny and dollar for dollar. Interesting. Um, so I had done um I tried to find a comparison of something a project that was similar here in Troy um to what's going to be happening in the park. Um, and Ryan's Wake a couple years ago acquired the building next door to them and they had done a complete renovation of the space to essentially double in size. Um, they completely remodeled inside. I I we took a look at the permits that were issued for that project. Um, the permits that were submitted and approved by the city were a $100,000 permit for the double deck in the back that was done. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. Um, $40,000 permit for inside renovations and a $20,000 permit for a sprinkler system. So, when I see those numbers and I know the building is completely different, I don't know what the state

of the building next door to them was at the state because it sounds like the old park pub has some serious uh violations. Um, but I hear those numbers and I think to myself, could we um renovate the current or the old park pub and save tax dollar funds? Well, so I have to call my friend Chris Ryan and see where it gets those prices. But uh I So yeah, um but but that being said, uh look at that was really part of the initial plan. Um so like every project that we do here at the city of Troy, uh we have our our um trusted uh engineering uh architectural firms um that you know bid out to see uh who who can evaluate these jobs. Um so different ideas from rehabbing the building to um just doing minor fixes to uh doing uh a larger facility that some of you might have seen that the price just kind of started to skyrocket. Um you know I so all of those things get evaluated. We of course rely on the engineering and the architect work not only of our staff here but of those consulting firms that we um that we work with. And those numbers were getting pretty close to where we are now. And in some of those that uh did not remedy stuff that's going on um you know in the basement structurally and with sewer. did not remedy the size of the kitchen that you know look when they 15 17 plus years ago started cooking back there. Uh it was an opportunity the park pub really started to take off it really

became a popular place not just for golfers but for the neighborhood from folks coming in out of town. So they just kind of operated in there. But we also heard from a lot of folks uh you know Chris Ryan included that you know they would never it would be no one would ever necessarily even bid on that existing kitchen too. You know we even entertained do we do we salvage some and build a bigger kitchen. So the point that I'm trying to drive home is we did definitely um go around and there's been a lot of different numbers thrown out different ways to do this. Um and you know this is this is uh the most coste effective while still you know going the full length of providing a permanent amenity for the park.

Yeah. And just on that note um it did not make financial sense. um it was upward to literally redo what is there now upward of six million and we did look at that um not just us internally with outside um experts in that field you know do know as Sheamus mentioned um the sewer drainage is going to be completely overhauled from the ice rink to uh the restaurant event space and some real infrastructure has to happen at the site. It's not just, you know, plop something on top of existing infrastructure. Quite a bit has to be overhauled. So, but you know, we don't take spending dollars here during our administration lately. We look we look at every penny. We look in house. We look at our staff. How can we make it more efficient? How can we save taxpayer dollars? And that's why the people of Troy are seeing more services under this administration than the prior two years at more efficiency and safer and cleaner city. So this abides with that in terms of financial sense.

Thank you. Um the only other question that I had was in regards to the design. It doesn't sound like their uh design settled on now and that might happen um all depending on who responds to the RFP. Um back in December when the bonding was first was put in front of the previous council. I know that there was talk of a pavilion. Um and I know in my head I know what a pavilion I think I know what a pavilion looks like. So is I didn't see that word mentioned anywhere in the RFP. Is that idea scratched?

So it it's not it is not scratched. One point off that too as well. So um yes, we the person that ultimately uh gets awarded to be the proprietor uh through this RFP to operate. Um it definitely makes sense especially uh they're going to be the expert in that industry to consult them a little bit on what do they think you know certain kitchen fixtures uh where certain placements are that are efficient. But just to be clear the people that have a say in designing uh this new permanent uh structure are the people of Troy. That's why we're doing that community outreach um and plan and look forward to do that. So, no, the plan is still to evaluate not just a prefab structure. Um, but there's a couple other options again to cut cost down. Um, but in the pavilion, I uh council member, I uh kind of said the same thing at first in the um I believe in the architecture world, this type of structure that has an the vision of, you know, u doors that are opening to keep it open like that, you know, gets referred to as a pavilion. Um it actually kind of makes sense as well. We all know another thing that was one of the first, you know, visions. Do we bring back, you know, the Acadia pavilion that just gets used for storage right now. It has history. It has real opportunity to be another gem. Again, that cost was uh too high. So, um the pavilion that me and you would usually picture is not exactly what we're referring to when it comes to this to this structure. We're still going that route uh that you saw with the bond uh prefab um or you know other type of uh easy but sturdy build uh that can satisfy uh the needs of the restaurant the um event space and the pro shop.

Thank you. And that was all the questions that I had. Anybody else on the committee have any questions? Chair. Yes. Uh so so there was some discussion about using ARPA funds for the demolition of the old restaurant. I just want to make sure those funds are either separate um or they're not going to take away from the new playgrounds that are going to be going in. Separate. They're separate. They are separate. Yep. Total uh separate uh bucket of funding dedicated just to uh demolitions of city-owned property or non cityowned property. Can you refresh my memory and maybe for the public here tonight, uh how much in ARPA funds will be spent on each playground?

So there currently there's a total of 1.5 million of uh ARPA funds dedicated for the parks. The exact breakdown I I don't have at this moment, but again, it's still something being designed. I think it's fair to say that the vision uh the uh lower uh park by the ice rink is utilized, you know, uh has your kind of basic uh playground equipment is utilized by folks that want to grill out on a holiday or a birthday party. Still trying to keep that uh you know, keep that um in the same the same use. And then like the mayor mentioned earlier up on the North Lake portion of it, you know, you're going to see that be a bit co more costly because of the type of park. Not only is it an all-inclusive park, but then you're going to see a little bit larger um you know, playground equipment, sensory equipment, stuff like that.

Excellent. Thank you. I have one more question. Uh and this is a little bit this is more golf related. Um, so it seems like there's probably going to be a little bit of a gap between the start of the golf season and when the restaurant kicks off and gets rolling. Uh, is there a plan to serve golfers in that time frame? What is it?

We Yes. So, we we are going to get the tent up too. We are um offering if there's anything that we can do um in that short break between the restaurant getting up and running um you know but we still the plan is uh the folks that especially utilize um the restaurant for the catering and things like that um are folks that are part of uh you know do tournaments and things there. So that's really a goal to make sure that that they're off and running uh to get that operation um at least that there's some offerings there. So, you know, that's our thought again when we're when we're scoring this uh council member. You know, we do want somebody that really can come to the table and say, "Hey, I can I can get up and running even if the first week it's u cheeseburgers and hot dogs." Uh type of thing. So, you know, the the proprietor that brings that to the table, you know, is going to and their experience and everything else factored into it um is going to be one of the factors of this too. Who can hit the ground running when it comes to those aspects.

Yeah. Thank you. I know. In December, you had mentioned the possibility of maybe selling that tent once we were done using it at the end of this season. Is that still a possibility to maybe offset the costs of this project?

I think that while we're we're going to be using the tent, of course, but there we would definitely if if the tent becomes of not use um you know, at some point it you know, it definitely will look into that opportunity to sell it. It's uh it's in it's in good shape. um you know it does not uh it did not come with a $600,000 price tag. Um you know the cost of that was much less. So there if there is an opportunity where we can recoup some money into that um we we most definitely will will take that opportunity or again the new um the new uh proprietor might want to utilize that. There's plenty of space in Frer Park to to use for it. Um, you know, so that's all stuff that we would still iron out, but um, if we ever got to the point that it it did not have the use, we would most certainly try to, you know, surplus that out to recoup some money for sure.

Yeah. Um, in light of the changes that are happening to the Freer Park proposal for a park pub, um, my understanding, uh, and I haven't looked at it in a couple months, but the secret determination was crafted with a different land use in mind. Um, is that right? Um the seeker determination was still I mean that was still crafted for the use of a restaurant event a similar type of space. Uhhuh. But but for on a different portion of the thought at the time when this

where where the layout where it encompasses Yeah. that the location of that location of that um being being changed. But I also I'd have to go back refresh my memory on exactly what the seeker looked like in the whole area that it encompassed, you know. Uhhuh. Okay. Um I I guess we can revisit it at another time, but what I would like to ask is if we have to either revise or cure the secret determination and the environmental assessment formula change. That's definitely something that we're looking at and I can definitely keep you in the loop on uh the where we are with that or what needs might arise. Okay. I appreciate that. and um uh just getting out ahead of it so that we're appreciate it. Thank you.

In front. And then um my my other sort of set of questions, there's like five of them, but they're all ascends, so it should be quick. Um for the golf course itself, when we were projecting out the revenue in the 2026 budget for like golf fees, golf carts, gift cards, I think I'm missing one. Merch. Thank you. Um when when those when those revenue projections were baked into the budget, what did we think Park Pub was going to be? What the tent? The tent. Okay. We we knew

um the budget for 2026 we we would not have a restaurant and event space open uh in time for the season. So we knew that. Okay. Last year. Okay. So that they're done. Those revenues projected are based on what we're doing. Correct. And one other thing, we haven't had lo we haven't lost anybody in terms of tournaments. I've already been doing my schedule for the spring, summer, and fall. And everybody that was there last year is returning this year. So, and they know the plan. We've kind of I've been meeting with leagues and tournaments for the last month. So, they know kind of what we're doing as well.

Okay. And um could you remind folks for for last year in 2025 uh what was the revenue for the golf course? I don't have it off the top of my head. I'll get it for you and I can send it to you. I don't have it off the top of my head from last year. Do you recall if it exceeded or um if it was higher than

Yeah, I don't want to say for sure because I don't have the exact answer. Uh I would say it was closed last year. We had weather issues in the spring if people remember. Uh we closed 23 days last year due to weather and in 2024 we closed four days. So there are weather issues that impacted us especially in the spring last year we lost four tournaments because it was we had monsoons on like every Saturday. If you remember last year it rained like every weekend. So there were issues involved but I will get the exact revenue number for you.

Perfect. And are we expecting in this year for revenue to exceed expenses for the golf course on its own terms? Yeah, for for I'm very hopeful for that. We did raise rates this year. So, the rates will be there is an increase in that that will generate more revenue. Um, and the intel I'm getting, I expect a real busy season by the outreach that I've had so far for booking events and things like that. Josh has a direct line to Mother Nature, so it's very helpful to game out the revenue. You take her off last year, obviously. No, I appreciate that. projection is a projection and you know you don't know until you know but just trying to get a handle on how much this stuff is going to impact things. Okay, I think that's it for my questions. Chair.

Sure. Um I just want to So as far as the time frame, the tent will be up for this full season and then into next season. You said the the restaurant would be operational during next season. is that into the 2027 season. So again, in us, you know, as we're still uh, you know, have yet to even go into that design period and community outreach, um, you know, we want to have we want to utilize the the we want to we will be able to utilize the tent if need be uh for part of the season if if that's what ends up occurring. Yeah.

And you expect the tent to be ready into this season? Like it it will start without the tent and then Um, okay. Um, how where do the pickle ball and tennis courts fall into this plan? Is that part of the playground overhaul or is that being scrapped right now?

So that again um in you know when you're when you're putting out a vision a plan for something um you know you want to include you want to maximize it the most as possible. I know we talked about tennis and pickle ball courts. That would definitely be something I think that I know the administration wants to do. I know the mayor's talked about it. I believe some council members um it's important to them too. So again, that that will probably be an example of having to uh once we have more uh solidified plans coming to the council and it would be something that the council decides to fund or to not fund.

Thank you. Sure. Um

I just want to um clarify for h how much money is set aside or is it from the ARPA funds for the demolition and the repairs to that site? So there is uh not having that number off the top of my head, there is ample demolition uh funding available that could be used for uh city and non city projects. So um you know even if I don't want to speculate on what the demolition is going to cost, but I know that it would it would definitely not exhaust or get close to exhausting the existing ARPA funding set aside for demolitions. We might have I feel like is it

we have uh 247,929. So I think we have enough. Does that sound like a reasonable cost for that? Well, this uh this is how much we have um in ARPA funds left over specifically for demolitions of like city property or in addition to

Exactly. So that's just to be very clear uh don't want any confusion that that ARPA account for demolitions is not solely dedicated to Fair Park. It is can be used citywide for city projects, city- owned property or non city-owned property when you know of course we have a structure structural emergency and you know we can't say uh we don't get the property owner to pay for it um before the demolition occurs. Thank you. To answer the other part of your question, we as of end of fiscal year 2025, um we have a remaining budget of 819,706 specifically for the pub that's separate than the playground. That's ARPA.

That's ARPA. Okay, great. Thank you. Did anybody else have any other questions? Great. Seeing none, I'd like to Can I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion. Thank you. Can I have a second? Second. Okay, meeting adjourned at 656. Thank you. And the next uh committee that's up is public utilities chaired by

Council Member Campbell Cohen at 6:56 p.m. I call to order the uh Troy City Council Public Utilities meeting. Uh the council members present are myself, um Council Member Spay McLaren, and Council Member Fevo. also present the rest of the council. And that's the role. Um, are there any representatives from the Department of Public Utilities here today? They are. They must be making their way up.

Okay, we can hang out. They're actually in the conference room zooming in and watching your kid. We've never had that situation before. Uh, real quick, uh, with us we have Andrew Golden, um, who is one of our, uh, fantastic supervisors up at public utilities. And we have Chris, our Zumanian, who you met, our new uh director of operations for public utilities. So, thank you guys. And thank you, chairman. And I know you have very pointed questions that I think we'll be able to get through very quickly.

Uh that's the hope. I don't think that these are um going to be long answer ones. And I uh appreciate that manganese lagoons probably not what everyone's here for tonight. Um, so such a great topic. Listen, let me get excited about it. All right. It does capture my imagination. Yeah. Right.

Um, so um, uh, I was hoping to start with lead service lines tonight. Um, and, uh, just for level setting, can you guys please confirm the number of lead service lines that were replaced last year? Uh so 187 lead service lines last year 2025 and those are full lead service line replacements. Uh it could be a portion it could be either a public side or a private side or a full combination but it's 187 total addresses. Okay. I guess better put for the question at the end of having replaced them none 100% of those 187 were not let

correct. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm getting at. And if I could jump in, share, the 187 um we're not counting the public private separate. So if we go to a household and there's both the public side and the private side, we count that as one, not two. So great. Um is there a current ballpark figure on how many lead service lines are known to require replacement at the moment? About 1,500 that we've found. Yeah. And that's including galvanized requiring replacement as well. Yep. Perfect. And there aren't too many of those, which is good.

Yes. Um, and how many lead service lines are still unknown? Or I guess an easier way of putting it is what percentage of the inventory is already filled out? We surpass 70% now. Yeah. So, we're at 73% on the on the private side and then at 57% on the public side. And are you guys observing as the inventory gets filled out over time that a higher percentage of the houses that you're sampling from now are lead relative to that first 50%. No, I wouldn't say so. No, it's been stable this whole time.

Yeah, just about. And that number that I gave for the the 1500 that we have uh the known leads that we have right now that number always fluctuates between like 1400 and600 because as we're finding them we're replacing them over the course of the year. So that number has been kind of stayed the same at about 1500 uh since we started the program in 2023. Yeah.

And we receive funding as you know for potholeing and that has helped us drive that inventory up. We continue using an AI to drive that inventory inventory to um look for hotspots, clusters. And then lastly, um our public education campaign has been very aggressive to remind folks to this day, you know, contact us. We can come and sample um the sample that you can do yourself at home. So, uh, that public education, but to be over 73% is is fantastic and it actually um helped us receive the 16 mil that the governor announced recently due to that inventory. So,

I think we're getting at um sort of a point of confusion that is very understandable with reporting on this. So we're saying over 500 have been replaced in the city of Troy and fi 1500 are identified as requiring replacement and so the combination of those is 2,000. Those are two separate. You're not including the 500 and the 1500. Correct. The 500 have already been done. There's 1500 more that we know about right now.

Yeah. I think that's a pretty straightforward thing like in this conversation, but for whatever reason it's been a point of confusion. Okay. reporting and so I just want to make sure it's public um for the work that we're expecting to happen this year. Um when we say that there are like multiple teams or crews out uh on any given day. Um, can we clarify who the contractors are, what neighborhoods they're working in, and how many teams or crews those contractors are um are supervising?

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so we have awarded a contract for a a lead replacement contractor, Anjo Construction.

Uh, they're from out in Laam. They've worked uh in the municipalities for quite a while. Uh they won the contract in the Lancingberg neighborhood. So they will be um starting with I think they have eight guys starting and that might break that into two crews, two crews of four and then they're going to as they do the potholeing which I'll get to that in a second kind of what that whole process is like. Uh they're going to you know get ahead of them with the inventory a little bit finding lines and then they're going to come through with a dig and replacement crew behind them. So they'll have, you know, actively working with at least two crews and then they'll have like the investigating folks out in front which would be like a hydrovac truck um because they're using that for the excavation. So they're basically sucking a 18inch x 18inch square around the curb box to expose the public and private side of the line and then we'll have a really good feel for inventory on that block and then the dig crew will come up after that and do the replacement.

Okay. So that's phase one. So then we also have a second contract that's under review with the state department of health right now. It's going to be around the same size. We're expecting to be like a $6 million contract and that's for uh the east side in South Troy. Okay. Tremendous. And um how long has DO been reviewing that contract? I think two weeks. I think it's been about two weeks, maybe three weeks. So probably a few more weeks and then we Yeah. the good news because they already approved a prior contract which actually took them close to 10 months. Um, now that we've gone through that process, we anticipate to be much quicker than that. So, we're looking at hopefully another couple weeks at best.

Okay. Not to add another speaker, but uh just to give since we're on it, just to give the public and the council some clarity, um you know, the reason DO reviews it, they want to make sure that you're basically getting the most bang for your buck. You're going in the most effective area. So, you know, by utilizing the potholeing and some AI technology and just good old looking at a map and seeing where some of these uh lead lines are, also pairing it with making sure that we're prioritizing younger children if they're uh if they're in certain areas as well. Uh so, putting that all together to make sure that's that is the direction in the you know corridor section that they focus on. And what sometimes I find causes a little confusion is again say, you know, a big area that we were this past year, still will be this year is in Lancingburg. Uh but then you still might see those little signs pop up on your street or somewhere. Well, again, that's, you know, we're fixing if a a leak is identified as lead, you know, that then gets replaced. Uh, you know, so that lead service line kind of gets done as a one-off. And of course, we're also trying to um coordinate this with our paving and infrastructure improvement. National grid doing a lot of gas work in the city as well. Uh so I know even last year we were able to shift our contractor. We wanted to pave a couple streets uh over on the east side. We were able to shift our contractor. There was not uh too much lead in these specific sections. But if we were going to pave and we had the ability to, why not get those, you know, three on this block, four on this block done so we can we can try to tackle that. So, not only does DOH like to see this, but we really do try to approach it from that corridor. So, you can start seeing uh, you know, the lead get eradicated in blocks in neighborhoods. That's how it gets prioritized.

That I remember at some point we talked about having sort of a side crew that was less focused on particular neighborhoods and more focused on chasing chips around. Um, are we still thinking about doing something like that? That's so without it being necessarily a side crew that's it was it's kind it's actually the reverse. We have our the chips chasing the lead program. So, um you know, we've got uh the the paving bids actually go out this week and um you know, that's something that we aggressively we have, you know, bi-weekly infrastructure meetings making sure everybody's coordinating CDBG uh we have bi-weekly meetings with National Grid as well. But so they are so it's not a separate crew. it is part of uh this phase one crew and just like when we get into phase two that's going to be in other sections in the city. We you know try to time it up right to have them come through and and just since we're talking to again to the public you know of course we try our best to do that. We're never going to uh rip up a street and then you know pave it and then rip up the street if we can't help it. Um, and we're trying to just get as many of the lead done to follow up with uh the paving program as possible, which does take some strategy. You know, we are a uh we are a diverse city and more than one. We are, you know, the physical what what it is to replace uh lead line on the east side is a totally different job down in South Troy. So, taking that into account as well,

right? And and sort of to that point, when folks in Stow Hill, for instance, are talking about like what's going on over here, part of that is that you're trying to sync up the lead service line replacement with that reconstruction so that you're not ripping up the street, going in, pulling out a pipe, and then leaving a mess. Right.

Correct. And that's and since we're talking about that, I mean, that's another project that um you know, we're focused on. There was a a report done several years ago uh outlining some of the needs up on Stowill. Um, we actually just I know our city engineer Chris Marini uh just either today or yesterday was talking to uh one of our engineering firms to kind of revive uh some surveys and study that was done up there. That'll be another thing that we'll see uh going to the community to discuss about some options there because um as you're aware, not only it does lead are they desperate for lead and milling and paving, but there you know there's a host of things that could change up there to make that the traffic safer, make it a little bit more of a welcoming street. Um you know, so those are all things we want to take into account, but to yeah, to your point, we want to get that done and then leave it fully complete once we're once we're gone.

And realistically, it adds time to the projects and that's reasonable. and you know and so on. Um uh diving back because we we've been talking about it a little bit and I think a lot of people in the public here like why are you adding potholes? Can uh I I know we've talked about it here in the past at some point but as a refresher for anyone joining now um could you give like a very high level one or two sentence summary of what potholeing is and why it's a thing you would want to do? Yeah. So it it

yeah it's been the least invasive form that we could find. There's there's a few other things that they've tried. You go to like these water conferences and seminars and they they want to like you know put some sort of small camera down inside the line to try to get down to see on both sides of the there's all sorts of different things that you could try for this. But, uh, what's most reasonable and works the best that we found for us is, uh, you're basically using a hydro excavation truck, which is you're spraying high-pressured water, breaking up the dirt, and then sucking up with a high-powered vacuum. Uh, this is on like a a large, you know, dual rear axle truck. Um, you suck up all that stuff. You, the hole is, you know, maybe about 18 inches. I would say about 18 inches around. that exposes the public side of the curb box, which is the valve that goes into the individual home, and then it also goes onto the private side. So, you see both sides of that line and what the material is made out of instead of digging a hole directly in the street impeding traffic and pedestrian flow. Uh, we keep that into the sidewalk.

And whereas once it was a contractor specifically doing that, you're saying like in the instance of Anjo, Anjo's going out putting in sort of like a forward party. Correct. Okay. It's a terrible name for it, potholeing. So, yes, absolutely.

And there uh just you when you asked about the multiple crews again too to be clear, uh last year there was a contractor solely and another grant that we went solely just out there just potholeing, which is definitely like Andrew said, one of the most effective ways. You know, you're not doing any tests or trying to get into a home. you know, you can just when you're on that block, solidify if it's lead, if it's not lead, city side, private side, and uh and move on. So, that's helped.

Um the last part of lead pipes that I wanted to ask about is um hopefully uh uh well, I don't know, but hopefully good news. Um, uh, part of the EPA administrative order relating to Troy was about a need for corrosion control measures. So, when you're dealing with lead pipes, I know you guys know this, but for um, uh, when you're dealing with lead pipes, there's the lead pipe itself, and then there's also how are you treating the water such that it might be protected against some of its environmental impacts. Um, and I I understand part of the EPA order was to add orthophosphate to the water. Um, could we get an update on how that is going?

Um, yep. So, that's going very well. Um, we started feeding ortho phosphate in 2000 or 2024. Um, since then we haven't gotten any additional violations with feeding that chemical. So, so it's doing a a very great job. Um, you know, we're very happy with the results and we've actually got a a 90% design for a a permanent system that's going to be going to DO probably I can't really say within the next month or two maybe um you know for them to review. Um so it's it's heading in the a good direction.

Okay. and um at the 90th percentile where are things sitting now. So, it's it's it's pretty much ready to go to do. I'm sorry, not for not not for the design, but for for the when you're when you're looking at the water testing um for lead and for under the lead and copper section, the lead testing, where are we at for like the upper bounds of what you're finding in samples, right? Yeah. So, I I don't have those numbers in front of me, but we're not um exceeding Right. We're not exceeding the limit.

Okay. Yeah. for the for the 90th percentile I think um we had like maybe it was like six or seven samples of the 60. So that brings us you know under the 90% and uh so that's for the last two monitoring rounds. So that's why you've probably seen a little bit less of the the EPA mandated letters since we're not uh you know in violation. We haven't been sending those letters you know we haven't been required to send those. Okay. Does anyone else have lead service line questions before we hop to these other I promise shorter um questions? Chair. Okay. Go ahead. Uh really sorry I turned this off. Um the contract with Anjo is that rolling over from last year?

Yes, that's correct. And how much was that contract awarded for? 5,249,564. And how much of that is remaining for this year? Is that the remaining amount? No, that's the total contract amount. Um, we've had four payment applications for them. I want to say maybe 5.1 million remaining. Okay. And we've received a lot of aid over this the last couple of years. Yep. Um, how much do we have remaining in those funds? And what is the plan to spend those? Can we get more crews out?

So, of the $12.8 8 million we've received that's broken down into engineering costs through CDM Smith to put the program together. Uh some costs on our end, administrative costs, and then the Anjo construction bid for the 5.25 million. And then um you know, we're estimating that that South Troy and East Side bid is going to be around 6 million. So that's going to be the total of the $12.8 million. Okay. And you mentioned an AI tool. I had a resident uh ask me what that was. Do you know the name of that tool?

Yes. So, a TRX is the name of the software that we used um for the to the TRX software was used to find us locations to do the 800 potholes that we received the grant funding for last year. So, we sent the crew out to do the hydro excavation at those 800 properties that were given to us through the, you know, formulated by the AI tool. And then we've used that information to, you know, submit to apply for more grant funding. Okay. So, that kind of answers my next question. Um, how are we targeting the remaining 27% of the inventory? Is that mostly through potholeing or how are we how are we reaching them?

Yeah, we're doing potholeing. Uh, we're doing door hangers. our GIS team, uh, Joe and Aaron are, uh, making inroads in these communities where we still have, you know, we have contracts in, you know, for the lead replacement in Lancingburg, but we still haven't been in all those basements. So Joe has the list of the addresses where we're going and then he, you know, stops and tries to make contact with the homeowners to try to verify inside or have them do the uh, they have the option still to take the photo and then send it to us through our web portal. Okay. Thank you. Um, could I just make a plug for D3 and uh north central area of D2? Yep. Thank you.

Tremendous. Okay. Um, switching gears to the water transmission line replacement. Um, just a few questions I guess again for folks who are maybe not as familiar with the project or moved here in the last few years. Can you just explain what a water transmission line even is, why it's important, and why we're placing it?

Uh, so basically that is the way that we get the water from the Tom Hanick reservoir to the water treatment facility. Um, the lines were put in in 19 roughly 1906. Um, so it's it's time to replace them. Um, so we've completed from the plant up to Church Street. Uh that was phase one. Uh phase two would be from Church Street to basically the reservoir.

Um with that, the next steps to um getting phase two started would be to talk to a homeowner and get an easement. Um when we were doing our study, we ran into some DEC protected wetlands which we then had to shift the original plan to now a different uh lot line. So that's the reason for the easement. So we're hope hoping to get that moving shortly. And when did we learn that we needed to obtain that easement? Uh was that I forget when that last year?

Last Yeah, last year. It was sometime 2025. Yeah. Right. And how's that going? Well, right now the steps is to to communicate with the homeowner to to, you know, basically get that easement. Okay. Um, and have there been any other surprises with this project? Um, well, I know in like Albany, they were finding sections of transmission line made out of like wood and bone, maybe. Definitely wood. No, nothing. No, nothing like that. That was a surprise. No. Right. Right.

Okay. Um All right. Well, I think that was it on my end. Um except just to say that however the council can play a supporting role and we all appreciate that it's a massive undertaking and um whatever we can do to be helpful. Um thank you. Be proactive and letting us know.

Yeah. And real quick, thank you again, Chair. And we are going to continue being aggressive obtaining funding, you know, applying for any and all funding that is out there because there are several opportunities and you know, we have the city of Troy become a model uh for other municipalities how we are replacing lead pipes to the orthoposphate to so many other uh issues we're tackling and I can't say enough about the team at public utilities. Thank you.

But but to be clear, water on the water transmission line in particular, the funding there, sorry. Yes, the funding's there. Uh we did bond uh while I was council president for $30 million and we do have uh um EPF dollars to offset some of that um which obviously helps offset that bonding and that's held by the Environmental Facilities Corporation. Correct. EFC. Yep. Chair. Sure.

I just have one more question going back to lead lines. In December, in December, we there was an announcement that we had received an additional 16.7 million for lead service line replacements. What's the status of using that funding? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. It was announced, but we have not receive the award letter yet. Okay. Yep. And it usually takes some time. So that 16 mil obviously will uh continue through 27 and um because as you can see we're going gang busters this year with the monies we were appropriated. So

thank you. Any other questions on water transmission lines? Okay, we're going to book it through one more and then we're going to call it. Is that okay? All right. You're the chair. Um, I think we're going to have to just return to CSOS because it's just a bigger topic than we probably have time for right now. Um, but yeah. Um, but um, uh, very quickly, manganese lagoons, our favorite topic, manganese lagoons. Um, could you definitely please explain for the public what a manganese lagoon is and why they exist?

Chris here is a manganese lagoon guru. So, we're gonna let we're gonna let him take the bus here. I don't know about that, but um so the lagoons are essentially what accepts all the dirt, we'll say, from the treatment process of making the water clean. Um so, right now they're they're kind of full. Um, but we we've been talking to an engineer to come up with a long-term solution to help us, you know, come up with different ways to deal with it. Uh, the short torter term solution is we're going to be dredging uh getting that going again. Um, and just cleaning it as much as we can. Dredging the lagoons. Yes.

Okay. Not the Tom Hanick. Not the Tom Hanick. Nope. And is it manganesees from the Tom Hannah? like natural deposits of manganesees from the tomhanic that is being deposited in these lagoons at the end of the day. It's a little bit of both. I mean, we it's from it's naturally occurring and it's also from some uh pre-treatment that we that we use. I see. So, okay. When we think about it, it's you know, we're producing around 18 to 20 million gallons of water a day. We're consolidating all of that manganesees, which is a minute amount in the water. We're consolidating that every single day into a smaller byproduct that goes to the lagoon.

And it was um a curious solution to a curious problem that I recall from maybe a year or two ago that was talked about of um basically like reflecting sunlight onto the lagoons to try to speed up evaporation. Is that still being considered as like a potential solution? Not not that that I know of. I wish it sounds I would love if that worked because that would be great. A very goofy idea. I did I was like that's not my subject. That seems crazy but okay. Um uh but we have an idea of how we're going to be able to address.

Yes. And I guess finally for anyone who is looking at EPA echo or any of these other sort of public tracking things, if you look at the effluent manganesees, the number seems extraordinarily high, the percentage. And my understanding is that like the way that that percentage is calculated is we're not talking about volume, we're talking about the percentage within a water body. Correct. Right. Yes. That's correct. And so while it is not good for there to be a news overflow, obviously we have to solve this problem. We're not doing heavy industry. Correct. Correct. The Tom Han. Yep.

Okay. Perfect. Does anyone else have questions about manganese lagoons? All right. Well, hopefully something we can revisit in the future. Um but that's all my questions for tonight and u maybe in a couple months we can revisit CSOS. Yeah. Cool. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Do we have motion to adjourn? Do we have a second? Second. And at 7:24 p.m. public utilities is adjourned.

Thank you very much. Uh the next committee up is finance. We're going to take a brief 5m minute break uh to let folks stretch uh and then we'll convene. Um, and mayor, you'll get the chiefs and Rick.

Hello. How are you? I'm not sick. I'm worried about other people. All my eyes start filling up. I'm like, what? What am I catching here? He wasn't into

Yeah, we were really asking level setting questions. to make sure that everybody has the same baseline information going forward and I do not have a problem with it provided by the department. Did you learn anything new about the

um I don't feel that I learned anything extraordinarily new although there's confirmation uh that came from this meeting about the effectiveness of corrosion control that prior infer um and um I would also say that some of the quote contract contractor work. Being able to narrow in on what contractors are working really like me too.

Wait a minute. Where did those girls go? Are they from outside? No. I went to

super.

No, no, that is not allowed. A pizza might be nice. Yeah, I think they're going to be here forever.

Cheese pizza. You want cheese and I eat pizza? I know you eat cheese. That's Yeah. Cheese pizza and a roll of toilet paper. I'll then you money. Where are we from? Hello. We're ordering pizza. Oh, we are. Okay. Yeah, I know. I think we're going to I think we're going to take multiple breaks. I think we're going to have it. Yeah, there's a whole room of the conference room is full of people,

right? Yeah, he lets us in. All right. Well, whatever. Do you want me to give you money or

Okay. That that way. What?

Oh, we gonna Are we going to eat while the crowd is here? Oh, we're taking three.

Sure. Yeah. Hi. So, you're gonna Yeah, I'll start out and then you're going to talk to

and then u and then we'll then we'll have uh I'll open it up to questions from the council. I'll be able to make You want to make a statement? Yeah. Okay. So, you want to be right after me? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Do we do all of them? No. We pledge allegiance before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get it on. Actually, look as people are sitting down. Ste is back in the Can he is back in? Y. Do you want to inform the mayor? Thank you. Who is the flock guy? There's a what flock guy? There's a guy from Flock. Oh, there he is. Oh, okay. Good.

I'm going to question Rick.

They invited. They invited a flocka. Well, that's going to be interesting. Yeah, I thought I'd put that out in my I texted it out today. I must have missed it. No, the the that there was a FL guy. Yeah.

Block flock. Thank you everyone. Uh welcome back and I want to again thank you for your patience and your cooperation this evening. Um on behalf of the council, I also want to thank the entire community for the uh outpouring of sentiments that you have provided us. They've given us a lot to read and I want to assure you that we have read every one of them. we have discussed them and we uh if if like myself we didn't personally respond uh please understand uh that it wasn't for the lack of paying attention. We really did uh listen and and read all of your comments. Um I would like at this point to ask the corporation council a couple contractual questions if I could. Um, the flock agreement that was provided to the council reads, "This agreement will automatically renew for successive renewal terms of the greater of one year or length of set forth on the order form unless either party gives the other party notice of non-renewal at least 30 days prior to the end of the then current term. Is that the way you read it?

That's what it says. Then it is my understanding then that the previous contract expires on March 31st, 2026. That's my understanding. And 30 days prior to that would have been March 1st. Okay. So I guess I would ask that the city in in effect opted out of this con opted to renew this contract the by terms of the agreement by the terms of the agreement the the there is an automatic renewal provision. Okay,

which it was not and there was no disclaimer issued 30 days prior. So I guess I'm asking what are we doing here tonight? because um the council did not receive this legislation until Friday well into that period. So we are have no role here. We have um we are being asked to act on a contract that has already been renewed. So I would ask

I would ask that if you cannot contain yourself that you leave the room. This is a an an public meeting. We are trying to maintain decorum. We're trying to have a deliberative uh conversation here and I would please ask your cooperation. Thank you. In answer to your question, you're being asked to authorize the mayor to enter into the agreement which has already been renewed. So, uh, thank you. I appreciate your answers. Um, that's my understanding as well, Council Member McKe. Thank you. Right into the mic.

Always have problems with that. Let me be absolutely clear from the outset. This is not about whether we support the use of automatic license plate reader cameras and is it is not about defunding the police. Anyone who frames it that way is deliberately misleading the public. This is about something far more fundamental. our constitutional right to privacy and the urgent need for meaningful oversight and controls over how a private company Flock safety collects, stores and uses our data. This is about the fact that Clock has repeatedly Flock has repeatedly violated the terms of its contract and abused the trust of police departments and communities across the country. We deserve accountability, transparency, and the power to say how our data is used. Nothing more, nothing less. The council should have been provided with this flock renewal information and the contract itself much earlier in the year, especially given that council members as well as members of the public repeatedly requested details from the Troy Police Department and the mayor regarding the flock camera system. Instead, we were kept in the dark until after the contract had already taken effect and then asked to vote on its renewal as if meaningful oversight were still possible. This is not merely a procedural failure. It is an egregious breakdown in transparency and accountability and a direct affront to the democratic process. The city council's foremost responsibility is to safeguard the prudent use of taxpayer dollars. Our authority over the public purse is not

symbolic. It is a fundamental check on act executive action that requires us to thoroughly review, question and approve all contractual agreements entered into by the city. When the authority is circumvented, it strips the council of its ability to fulfill its duty to the to the people of Troy. By denying the council timely access to critical information and effectively bypassing its oversight role, this administration has determined both the undermined, I'm sorry, undermined both the integrity of our governing institutions and the trust of the public. Such actions reflect a troubling disregard for transparency, accountability, and the core principles of democratic governance. Rather than fulfilling her responsibility to engage honestly with the council and the public, the mayor, without presenting any evidence, publicly claimed both in the media and on social platforms that the that the council intended to defund the police by cancelling the clock contract. This assertion was false and deeply misleading. It needlessly inflamed public concern, swed confusion among residents, and undermined a constructive fact-based discussion about the issue at hand. At best, this reflects a troubling disregard for accuracy and responsible leadership. At worst, it suggests a deliberate attempt to mischaracterize the council's position for political advantage. Either way, such rhetoric erodess public trust and distracts from the council's legitimate duty to provide careful oversight and ensure accountability in the use of public funds. It's called the democratic process.

Thank you.

Thank you. Um I would ask I would ask that the uh folks please uh when when a speaker is speaking that we refrain from conversation. Council member Favro. Um, I too wanted to thank every resident who came out tonight and who's been emailing us uh these past few months. This has been going on for a couple of months now behind the scenes. Your participation is what local government is all about and it's our it's your job to speak up and it's our job to listen before we make decisions. There are a few things that I want to put on the record tonight. First, this is the first time this council is discussing re resolution 35. This topic has never been on the agenda before tonight. Second, many of you are here responding to posts our mayor put out on Facebook. Posts that contain false information about the council's supposed intentions to defund the police. Let me be clear, this council to date has not taken any position on that issue. What we did was listen to residents last month. And I'll note when you come up to the podium, we never ask anyone to share their party affiliation at the podium because community concerns are not political. The mayor unfortunately made it that way. Not one resident last month stated they wanted to defund the police. What residents asked what asked was that we review the processes that got us here and evaluate the services being provided to us currently. We all want to keep Troy safe and this council supports our

police department and we intend to do it in a way that protects our residents to the contract. After repeated requests and after confirming that legal counsel didn't have a copy, the mayor's response on March 5th was simply, "We'll track it down." The council didn't see this contract until last Friday after 5:00 p.m. when it was dropped as an agenda item. That alone raises a red flag for me. It tells me that the administration doesn't have the filing systems in place to access critical information when requested. What's even more concerning is that once they found it, they realized it expires now in 12 days. Whether this was intentional or not, the result is the same. The administration's disorganization uh robbed us the opportunity to negotiate a new contract or find a new vendor. We have heard from the Troy PD uh bene benevolent association and they seem very satisfied with this service. Um but if they weren't, we now feel like we aren't given the opportunity to cancel. Uh we never gave Flock the 30-day notice the contract requires. And I'll I would also like to note that um so far three times this year and it's only March, this council has been asked to approve a contract that has already expired. And now we have this. I'm disappointed. I am frustrated and frankly you all should be too. This is not how the government is supposed to work. There are steps. There are checks and balances. And there must be transparency. Council member Campbell Cohen.

Could you speak into the mic, please? I can. Can you hear me? Okay. Now, yeah.

I I don't want to retread ground here. Um, and over the last I guess it was brought up at the Osgood meeting maybe a month ago. So, over the last few months, uh, about 60 constituents have reached out. It's something like 55 or 56 of them want these flock cameras gone. And of course, the way that they are expressing that there's a variety of opinion, but overwhelmingly the sentiment that I've heard from constituents is that they don't have a problem with a alprs in principle. They have a problem with this particular vendor. And what is frustrating to me about getting this after the renewal, it appears, I'm not a lawyer, but um is that we could have satisfied seemingly everybody's concerns had we gotten that ahead of this um and just dealt with this, had a conversation about it, made a deliberative effort. you know that you're not gonna make everybody happy, but almost everybody who has reached out has has talked about flock the company, not the technology. Um, and in a conversation that is fundamentally about restraint, this sort of do first, ask for forgiveness later approach, I think unfairly calls into question the staff who are dealing with it. Um, and I know that's nobody's intent. I'm I'm sure everybody's coming at this from good intentions, but the temperature in the room has got to come down on this kind of stuff. I don't think you can have a serious conversation when when we're talking about every single financial budget line for Troy PD being defunding the police. It's just an unserious way of approaching at what point. And then you know the other the other final point

and I'll I'll step away from this is that at all times public safety is like a negotiation between again that safety and your civil rights and um uh there is a balance to be struck. I think ALPRs can strike that balance. I think they also cannot depending on how you're handling them. Um, you know what we're hearing a lot from people is like, "Oh, these are useful. These flaw cameras are useful." Which is fine. I am sure that they do help solve crimes. I also think that you would solve more crimes if you didn't need a search warrant to enter someone's home.

You know, I I don't doubt that at all. You would absolutely solve more crimes if you didn't need a search warrant. But we have them because we have an expectation of privacy. And so what is this sort of stuff does not lend itself to black and white thinking. If to take it a step further, if you evacuated Troy and turned it into a snow globe, just an empty city with a dome on top, there'd be no more crime. There'd be no more issues with financial reports, no more music after 10 p.m., no more homelessness, but also no people, and nobody to enjoy that space. And so the point that I'm driving at here is that we are trying to strike the balance. You guys have to meet us halfway and help us strike that balance with you. Um and and what has happened here is is um a real shame because we've been robbed of that opportunity. Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member McLaren.

I guess I just want to reiterate a couple of things. Um, at no time has any of us said that we are interested in defunding the police. And to equate the questions that we have or that we've, you know, the statements that we've listened to about Flock in no way should have been equated with that. It's almost as outrageous as a post um with Mum Donnie on it inviting people to come to Troy to escape socialism because it would stop right here. It's it's ridiculous. Um and it's insulting and um we support the police. Um we want them to have the tools that they need and what we're hearing is that this is a useful tool. the license plate readers. Um, I believe that Troy is not selling the data, that it's private to Troy and that it disappears after 30 days. But beyond what Troy does with it is what they are worried about, what the what the public is worried about, what we worry about. Um, so we don't want to take away valuable tools, but like council member Campbell Cohen said, we have lost the ability to come up with a different solution. You know, even if I I don't know that I personally would support cancelling a contract even if we could because it would leave them without a tool like this in the intro and that's what worries me. But we don't even have that opportunity now because before we came tonight, you know, almost 30 days ago, it was already a done deal. Um, and now we've got to wait um until the contract we actually have a chance to cancel it. Um, I hope that

we can work together to look at other vendors and come up with a solution that we can all live with. um to keep our citizens privacy safe, but also to give the police the tools that they need um in in advance of this current contract expiring so that the police are not left without this valuable tool. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Dorenza.

Uh I just I share the sentiments of my uh my colleagues up here. Um, one of the things that upset me the most is we did uh we made a a good faith effort to do our due diligence on this. Uh, we asked for data from you guys. Um, we listened to everyone who spoke up about this and one of the things that uh, Council Member Noren McKe did uh, was she asked for two years of audit logs and she asked multiple times very clearly what the for the specific audit logs. Um and after uh days uh those were not provided to us. There was a uh basically an audit provided to us of 25 random data points from the last six months which didn't really tell us anything other than that the flock cameras were being used by police on 25 different instances. So I just want to say I feel very disrespected by that. I'm very disappointed in the way that was handled and I hope that we can do better in the future. Council member Stubber,

I too share the sentiments of my colleagues here. I support the police and everything you do to keep us safe. And as somebody who is in technology in my day-to-day life, as soon as I read this contract, my stomach dropped because I've tried to get out of these many a time in my professional life and you can't. I also asked the administration for specific information regarding the security of flock including a sock 2 report that I still don't have and those are very important things for us to make decisions is to understand the security behind the technology. Uh I also hope that there will be more transparency and more cooperation so that we can do our jobs and keep both residents residents safe and enable the police to do their jobs.

Thank you. Um at this time the administration um has something to share.

A couple things. Um, first and foremost, I was on the council as council president. This was started in 2021, never before the council. 2023, a Democrat mayor, Democrat administration did not come to the council and added the license plate readers. Now we are before the council and we're being hit for not being transparent. Council president, you were on the council with me and the prior administration and mayor did not go before the council. I am here to be before the council with Flock to talk to you about what Flock license plate readers are, some of the misnomers that were put out there. And yes, I do look at taking tools away from the police. That is a step toward defunding. Whether we call it that or not, it is taking tools away from our police officers and our police department. It's not what we're trying to do. So saying that, I am here tonight with block with our command staff to talk to you with our administration council to be transparent, something that has not been done since 2021. So please give us that respect. We are being transparent to talk to you. What is fluff? What data the sock 2 report why we can't not we we and the Troy PD due to investigations and I'll let Flock and TPD talk about

the Sock 2 report. Yes, we did provide an audit council member D. Lorenzo and that audit two different audits and the one that you're talking about that particular audit the vault logs I'll let our chief and deputy chief and flock talk about why those are not released the sock report we we do have at least the um the approval that that is and has been done now also lift lock and the chief speak about that. But more importantly, I did just uh much like you uh you had a statement. As many folks know, when I took office, I made no bones. Our city is going to be safer and cleaner. Public safety is a top priority for my administration. And that means making sure that our officers have the tools, the resources they need to do their jobs and do it right and keep our community safe. Flock safety camera cameras are a piece of that pie. They are not the panacea. They are a piece of that total picture. Two years later, we are safer. We have more guns off the streets. We have reduced violent crime here in our city. Look back at 2021 when flock entered our city. The license plate readers, you know where it came from? It came from our minority community. It came from neighborhoods who were seeing kids with drive by shootings whereby kids were getting killed on the street in 2021. Aishan Davis, MJ Rivera over at Hillsview Heights President. While while someone is speaking, we would have asked your cooperation and silence.

Thank you. So saying that those neighborhood meetings led to more cameras in our neighborhoods, folks. those neighborhood meetings dovetailed our walk-in beats, our park walk and talk, our escalated uh operation sentinel combined with give, combined with SOS, combined with our neighborhood organizations working handinand with us. They did not come out of on on the fly. Mayor Madden, myself, a number of other neighborhood organizations in 2021 escalated our tactics to reduce crime, to keep our neighborhoods safer, to make sure that our streets are safer. So, here we are two years later. The city of Troy uses block cameras to assist our police department in solving crimes. It's important to understand what these cameras are and what they are not. They are not surveillance cameras. Guess what? Your iPhone is more of a surveillance camera than the license plate readers, body cams, which our community and Troy police wanted and we are so grateful that we have them. They are more surveillance cameras. Your Ring doorbell is more council president. Please, please.

You're folks. Please listen. We We want to hear from you, but we also want to hear from her. Now, please, no chatter. Your Ring doorbell is more of a surveillance camera than the license plate readers. They do not detect faces. We do not access from flock that feature. They do not detect physical features. They capture your license plate, your basic vehicle information, make, model, color. There is also no live feed via monitor. The SI system simply collects the vehicle information that officers can access later if it's needed in an investigation. And guess what? It works. This technology has helped our department solve serious crimes, including homicides, armed robberies, stabbings, and narcotics cases. It's also been extremely instrumental in locating missing persons, recovering stolen vehicles. Just last night, it was used. Just today, it was used. just a few weeks ago was used for Emily Men, a former council member, to find her stolen car. In many cases, time is critical and having this access to this information helps our officers act quickly and act effectively. At the same time, we understand the importance of privacy and security. We understand as people the city of Troy and the Troy Police Department maintain full ownership of the data collected. That data is only stored for 30 days and then is automatically deleted. It does not exist beyond that point. Flock does not share our data with outside agencies

including the federal government including ICE and access to the system is sis is strictly controlled. Every user must go through multifactor authentic authentication to ensure it's used responsibly. It's also worth noting that license plate reader technology is not new to Troy. We've been using some form of it for over 17 years. Flock is the modern, more modern, efficient version of a tool that we already trusted. These cameras are one part of a broader public safety strategy which includes community policing efforts, park walk and talk, walk and be program, operation sentinel. Together, these efforts have helped prevent crime in our city solve cases faster and keep our neighborhoods safe. My ad my administration will continue to invest in the resources, the tools for public safety, supporting our officers and use responsible technology to protect our residents. I'm here tonight to answer questions. Our Troy police block is here our corporation council. We have the administration mayor prior was not before the council. I am here to be transparent to talk to you and recognizing that folks on both sides of the aisle. It's not a Democrat or Republican issue. This is about keeping our city safer, our neighborhoods safer, protecting our children, and doing what's right for the people of Troy. And I respect everyone's opinion. But we are here tonight to plead with the council to support our efforts supporting Flock

to support the license plate readers. Thank you very much. um you know saying that we we would love to answer questions. I know that uh the chief wanted to say a couple words. Um and I know deputy chief Barker's here and we do have uh um the representative from Flock uh on Zoom. Oh,

did you you have a presentation? You do you want to say a few words first before the questions?

Yeah. I just wanted to say, you know, my uh this all started back in 2021 with with me with a phone call that I received when I was deputy chief. I saw the value in um in in having LPRs. Um we we saw much value in it. So, we added more LPRs in 2023. Um, we haven't had any breaches in our system. I know that you read things in the news and so on, but we're responsible for Troy and uh and we make sure that that our data is safe and that we're doing things the right way and that we audit our personnel so that things aren't aren't haywire and people are doing whatever they feel like. And like the mayor said, there's a two-step authentification in order to to get into the system. And uh it's just been it's paramount for us to have to to solve crimes. I mean, it's a market difference before we had LPRs. So to take them away um would be a huge detriment to our ability to uh to solve crimes and solve them quickly. Um yeah, you might solve them, but it's going to take a lot longer. All they are is another tool. All they do is capture a picture of the car and the license plate at a moment in time. That's it. Nothing else. But it's a at least it's a clue. It's a step. It furthers our investigation. Then you have to go into another system, the DMV to run the plate and so on. There's nothing that comes out of that other than that picture. That's it. Um, but it's very very helpful to us. So I I know that our guys and gals use it all day, every day. They're able to be out there and to uh help people. Like the mayor said last night, we helped a person suicidal person. Uh we were able to track them down and get them the services they need. So, it's more than just crimes. It's it's it's helping people. And and that's what your your police department wants to do. It wants to keep people safe. It wants to help people and it wants to solve crimes. And this is a a tool that really helps us do that. So, I I'd appreciate the support. I know you

said that your problem is not with the technology, that's with Flock, but you know, I I feel like I've been pretty assured from Flock that that they're they're not they're not in any shenanigans. Uh at least here in Troy. So I can't control what happens outside of us. We we have to worry about here. This is where we live. This is where, you know, what we're responsible for. I can't while it might concern me that something's happening many, many thousands of miles away, there's not a lot I can do about it. I can do what matters here. So I mean that that's what I'm responsible for and that's what I care about most. So that Did you want to say something? Say

thank you, Chief. I don't know that I have too much more to add other than and and I appreciate the comments. I think the intentionality, and Rick, stop me if I'm ever going to say something that's going to get us in trouble, but um the intentionality of procurement in our department, and I want to make it clear for the people listening, is that the police department does not procure and purchase and identify products all in a silo by itself. When we identify through a review of the available products and we decide on a service, we put together that procurement package and send it here to city hall where it goes through several departments and then eventually we're authorized to purchase it. In these previous cases, we received back from the city here, you're authorized to purchase and that's why we move forward. It wasn't as though your police department was operating as the secret authority. And I just want to make that clear for you because my intention, our intention is not to offend you. It's to to work through whatever the process. We're trained police officers. uh we're doing our best at admin. We're getting out of the street into the offices, but we're trained police officers. That's why we rely on our comprollers's office or our code enforcement office or all these different other utilities and departments in the city when it comes to those various things. And so, as it stands today, I think as though most of the vendors we work with are typically reasonable. And so, I don't know that we're locked into another two years. I would imagine and this is where feel free to anybody stop me if I'm going to get the the city liable but I would imagine oh no um that this is everything's still up for discussion here and that's the goal of anytime we get asked a question sometimes we have to go back to vendor for a specific answer sometimes we have to go to somebody here for a specific answer and so the delay is never meant to offend or be intentional it's just to get the right answer and figure out what legal ground we're on to offer whatever answer it may be and then obviously also I recognize that and there's no offense taken on our end. I know we're all pulling in the same direction. The people at this table, the people at that table, the people behind me. Like

everybody wants a safer public. Everybody wants to feel safe. And so that's the ultimate intent here. We can we can talk about other products. Maybe why we we chose this one over others. Um but I'd be remiss not to also mention that part of us being present and part of us speaking is that it is to support the men and women that are using it every day and they see a difference in it. And so that definitely informs to to your point uh council member Cohen is there's there's always a balance of anytime we're dealing with uh police work or investigative work is that the constitutionality versus the effort and certainly the constitution comes first but it's it's time tested in the courts and if the courts tell us otherwise then you change your tactics just as we have as cell data and everything else in the world. So it's certainly uh certain certainly very uh still much up for discussion in my mind. Thank you, Chief. Uh, did you want the representative from Flock to make a statement or uh is he here to answer questions?

He's here for questions. Please, folks, come on. Let's we're we're all grown-ups here. Let's act like that. Thank you very much. Uh, Council Member Struber,

I'm actually going to start with the administration. And I'm so happy that you mentioned the procurement process because that's where I wanted to start. Uh it is standard operating procedure for businesses and municipalities to do a vendor review for new and current vendors that are being considered. Uh vendor reviews usually include things like a verification of cyber posture, reputation, financial posture, ownership, data handling policies, privacy policies, legal issues, and more. Could somebody from the administration administration speak to what our current vendor review process looks like and how often it's done? I'll speak for our side of the the police department procurement. When we review our different products, we would select a a potential product, put that procurement package together, and it would go over to the controllers's office. That's largely based on features, cost, and all the different other procurement methods. But after that it would leave our office and come to the city.

Council member to answer your question. So when we when we get into, you know, reviewing a new contract and RFP, I I think that's along the line that you're going for. We're taking on a new vendor in the city. Um, you know, a lot of the ways that we procure that if it's not under the procurement thresholds which call for multiple quotes. Um although you know we since this administration's been in we constantly do try to do a review even if it doesn't is not required through the RFP process. I think when it would come to technology like this um to one to try to answer your question for the RFP process, if this was something that would go through an RFP process, we would definitely have a committee that would have everything different things like you just listed right there to decide what is most viable, what makes the most financial sense, what does that vendor bring to the table, score it as a group, um verify different things about the company that they uh will follow, what our city requires whether it's from insurance to other legal matters. So those are reviews that happen when we're entertaining new contracts, new RFPs. There's also processes because if you offer um certain technology that uh can one um you are a little bit of a um have a unique element to your technology or to your service. Um, another one that if you fit the needs to the city of Troy, for example, there's, you know, in Troy, you know, could we buy different types of fire trucks, we probably could, but we go to the certain one that the firefighters have been used to working on for for many, many years. So, you know, that is something that can justify a single or sole source. The flock technology is something that could justify a single or sole source. when we're going through reviewing these exa. I do just have to point out again too to off what the mayor and the chiefs have said. Uh keep in mind what happened here is the police department followed what

they know they're supposed to do. They sent this packet over to city hall and then it was something that was reviewed and decided to be brought to the city council to be fully transparent because of the type of uh contract it is and because of the dollar amount. you know it it through procurement it does have it should go before the council that's exactly why we're here too so does every element that you might have mentioned right in I I don't recall the list that you rattled off but you know all those different the financial the legal um you know the the pros and cons of a product are evaluated um and sometimes when it comes up to renewal um like something like this product is it working are we seeing really good results of it uh do we we We get newspapers too, you know, we see that uh the flock might have had issues in other parts of the country. Um from my understanding, uh those were also um services and products that don't aren't exactly what we use here. I think for example, I've heard some residents rightfully so wondering, is this capturing my facial image as I'm driving? Is it can it determine my color or ethnicity? Uh those are things in the city of Troy that it can't do. I I I believe there's products like that out there. I don't know what other municipalities uh use them. Like the chief said, we're all very focused on what happens here in Troy, New York, and what makes our residents and our visitors uh as safe as possible. So, all those things do uh all those things most certainly get considered. Um, but again, if you, you know, I think that you would agree if you have a product that works for the men and women uh that are out there every day protecting us in the police department, uh, if you are getting results, if you're not seeing data breaches in the city of Troy, if you're not seeing any of the issues that have been risen here in the city of Troy, if you're if your residents are questioning the constitutionality of

something and you see that there's been upwards of 30 to 40 court cases upholding the use of flock. So, I just want to be clear, especially in this day and age that we live in, we take extra steps to not just protect our flock or any other service, uh, computer or camera the police use, our water plan, our fire safety, the list goes on. And, you know, that's something that we've seen improvement on since we've been here every single day. Whether it's multiple uh multi-authentication, uh, other services, firewalls, again, our IT director would be able to speak more eloquently towards that. You know, those are all steps that are taken. We don't make decisions in a vacuum. We take everything into account. But again, if you have a product that has been working, that's keeping the residents safe, that's a valuable tool for the police department, uh most likely that's going to come out of a positive valuation uh once it's reviewed.

Thank you. And I'm glad you brought up data breaches. Uh the next question, I honestly don't know if it's going to be for the administration or the flock representative. Um, one of the ways that municipalities and software companies and businesses can track if they have been breached is via a SIM tool. And I had sent over some questions earlier because I know that research has to be done for them. And the mayor mentioned that Flock feeds in has their own SIM tool that would alert on a breach. But we've also been talking about how we only know about Troy's instance of Flock and what we do internally. Is there a SIM tool that Troy has in use so that we know if our instance of Flock is being breached or would Flock be alerting us if that happened? Again, I do not consider myself an expert. Imagine this is the question for Flock because their servers are where our data lies. There's no local storage on our end.

Yeah. Thank you so much for the question. If you could uh introduce yourself, please. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, mayor and councel. My name is Carrie McCormack. I'm on the public affairs team um at Flock Safety. Um and and specifically to your question, I know that a list of questions were sent over to our technical team and we responded to those. Um we if there were ever an issue um with anything involving a customer account, absolutely we would notify the customer. But can you So does your SIM tool track breaches for each individual instance of Flock?

Yes. And I'm going to be very upfront. I am not a uh technical expert. I'm on our public affairs team. So we have a whole technical team, chief information security officer, a whole wing of engineers um that could really dive deep on the technical side, but I'm on our public affairs team. Um so I'd want to make sure I get those answers to you in writing uh to ensure their accuracy.

All right. Thank you. Uh similarly uh some of the concerns that have been brought to us by residents are regarding the hackability of the cameras themselves and I have watched many of those videos. I have read through all of the CVEes for it and what I found is that like with most technologies uh whether it is your Microsoft computer or your iPhone vulnerabilities happen in any piece of hardware software it's a thing but a large part of that is doing the updates and making sure that it is up to date. So, I noticed that there was a particular firmware version that if you were before that, the cameras were able to be very easily hacked. And it is the camera that we have. I checked the model. It was the Falcon that we have. Can anybody speak to the the process for updates on these cameras to prevent that kind of a breach?

So, I I can just chime in a little bit on this. Um, and we're aware of the videos on YouTube of people that have found our cameras and have pulled them apart. Um, there is no evidence and we are not aware of any time that any of our customer data, any of our servers or any of that um, important information has ever been accessed. So, we know that yes, people have gotten their hands on our cameras. We don't know how um, and they've taken them apart. But the critical component of that is the question of have they accessed servers, customer data, anything like that. Um, and again, we've seen no evidence that anyone has, and to the best of our knowledge, that has never happened.

Does Flock have a company policy of updating the cameras in a certain amount of time when a vulnerability is found? So, again, I think I do believe these questions were put in writing to our technical team and we responded to them. Um, I'm not sure, council member, if you received that. Um I did and it did not have a specific which is why I was asking.

Yeah. So I'll just I'll I'll read from it. Um you know multiple um let's see. Yeah. Again I I can read from these technical responses. Uh what I'd prefer to do if there are detailed technical engineering questions um that we connect our technical team uh to have that conversation. Sure. I think that would make the public at least feel better to be aware of how the security is being handled. Most of my other questions are equally technical.

Okay. Yeah. And again, we're more than happy to uh make those connections uh to walk through that process with you. Thank you, Council Member McKe.

Thank you, Council President. Um Chief, you've said that the flock cameras are an important tool in helping the department solve crimes. Can you give us uh some examples of the crimes that have been solved by using the cameras? And can you also provide us with numbers? Uh for instance, how many of the crimes solved in 2025 were solved with the assistance of the ALPRS? And um who in the department can perform a search and are there any limits besides having to provide a case number?

Sure. So uh I'll just list out some of them. some of the cases that we So, Second Avenue, there was a personal injury hit and run that that was a serious physical injury that that was solved as a result of the of the flat cameras. 6th Avenue and 106, the homicide there that was uh right where the old Pizza Hut used to be or the the Firehouse Union Hall is there. There was a there was a homicide that occurred there that was solved as a result of using the PLA cameras. Uh the stabbing at Hudson Valley Community College in the parking lot with the uh it was a domestic between a boyfriend and girlfriend. Uh an armed robbery at Fifth Avenue in North U. And also many missing persons cases like I said the uh person that was in crisis yesterday. um even some simple things like a hit and run that if it happens in the area of of where a flat camera is, we're able to track that car down that that hit that vehicle and took off. Um so there's there's just many many cases every day that that are uh that the LPRs are used uh to our benefit and that and to help the per because there's always a victim to all of these. So, it's helping that victim, you know, and it's helping someone else not becoming a victim because we're able to to find the perpetrator. So, it's a, you know, it has a twofold uh thing there as far as uh do do you have numbers or No, I don't know if we got numbers as far as we could track it down. I mean,

uh but I don't have them off hand as far as the the exact number of times, but

give the public a sense of how helpful they are. So, I don't know that we track, hey, this case was solved by flock, but we can I can certainly ask informally and start to get numbers. It's it's involved in almost every investigation where a suspect either came to a scene or fled a scene. Uh to your other questions, the our detectives, our detective sergeants have access as well as our supervisors. It's not every single member of the department. If there's a a patrol officer that uh needs information, then they would seek out a supervisor. And then it has changed over time as as Flock issues updates, but in its current stance, it requires a reason code and there's a list of of different types of crimes or missing endangered persons or abductions, things of that nature. And then it accompanies that with a case number as you saw in the audit that was sent over in some instances because you're we're trying to match all these systems up. And so since flock is separate from our CAD and RMS, a case number is only generated as soon as a car is assigned to it. And so there's sometimes when the detective or death sergeant is quicker to flock, then the case number is generated. So he's still he or she is still putting in a reason code, but there may not be a case number yet. And like an example to think it through is the other day dispatch was receiving a call and starting to put it out to the zone cars of a potential abduction of a child of a congressman Pauling. It ended up not being a it was a a mistaken observation by a caller, but initially dispatches that the death sergeant hearing that hears a vehicle description, not necessary license plate, but a vehicle description, puts that information in prior to a call, a a car being assigned to it. So, it still has that reason code. They put an abduction or missing person, whatever it may be. Um, but that one wouldn't have a case number, but the two fields that are now existing in in the current software is reason code and case number. And then the officers are directed to use both.

Okay. And um these I think you said at one point when we met that um the so the search or the entrance into the system has to be approved by uh someone at the command level. Is that No, there it's each one is case by case. So, no one just

receives our data and then gets the ability to search it without our knowing that it was searched. So, it's each uh each search gets that same type of information to locate then uh in any type of audit to go back to whatever that incident being investigated was some sort of identifying information. Okay. Um, so, um, I'm assuming that you're using the default setting, uh, that puts you into the national lookup feature.

So, when we first started, that was the only thing available. We did. Um, we're currently on pause with that pending everything that we're discussing now. As I mentioned, everything's kind of up to discussion. And to council member Kim Cohen's point, there begins the balance is we recognize that there have been instances where outside of Troy, outside of New York, where different people have been socially engineered to get access to that data. So although ICE doesn't have access or we're told ICE doesn't have access, we're told or at least we hear reports from the public that an individual has been socially engineered to use their account. So someone's been convinced a police officer or what have you to access that data. And so there's a that's a potentially ne negative to having people outside of our agency, outside of our state able to access our searches even though we can have that audit history to go back and determine why they were doing it. To that same or I guess to the opposite to the balance that the council member was referencing. We also know that crime is transient. We have an iron pipeline of guns that come from the south. We have elder scams that come from the surrounding states. We had an attempted murder suspect that fled to Ohio. Thus begins the balance of determining do we have any indication or inclination that our data is being manipulated through by an individual that we can't then audit to determine where that case originates from versus our ability to have a lead generation tool. In many of those other cases where similar to like a a felony lane gang or if someone's breaking into cars to steal credit cards or steal the equipment from a vehicle and then they go on to the next community without some of these technologies we don't solve that crime which it's just a balance and a decision that we have to together make. But to to your to point to specifically answer at the current moment, no, we don't provide we don't participate in um nationwide sharing as we determine what

and when did you um put that on hold? It was recently. It was recently. we stopped as this conversation because there's a benefit to it and we realize the benefit to it and we have no indications and we work with uh federal agencies for a variety of criminal matters and there's no indication that the feds have any access to our data or using that locally and would you get access if they were for would you know that they had access yes h how is that everything's in the that audit history again if they if they socially engineered someone and they convince somebody from I don't want to I don't want to throw another agency under the bus but if they what's happened

but it would be similar to any other system we have throughout the entire city I don't know that we would know if they convince somebody the water department for and obviously our our uh information is just as sensitive but the many other systems we have still have audit responsibilities and I don't know that we fully know there until some sort of complaint or we get information that it is occurring and then we can go back to determine if that search was was lawful

thank thanks Um, well, here's an example. Um, so even if you do not share your data with ICE, another police department on the network can access it. And there were there's some several instances and there was an instance in 2024 and 2025 where Georgia law enforcement agency searched flock data from Danville, Illinois over 4,800 times for keywords related to immigration. Um there was another example in Mountain View, California. Uh the police department there discovered that the state lookup feature had been activated and they were sharing data without realizing it. Mountain View PD alleged that Flock turned on the ability for outofstate law enforcement agencies to view ALPR data from the department's cameras. After finding this out, the department shut down all its cameras and canceled the contract. know that during uh 2025 30 um agencies, police departments I would imagine uh have canceled their their contracts with with uh Flock.

So I'm happy to jump in here for a minute, mayor, if I'm or council.

Yeah. So just just a couple points of context there. We've got over 6,000 communities across the country in 49 out of our 50 states that utilize flock every single day uh to do what the chief was discussing um without fault. Um you know, we're aware of um you know, certain instances around the country where sharing settings were not uh what they wanted them to be for the community. Um those sharing settings are completely controlled by your local community. So you have the ability to control whether it is local or statewide or national lookup. A just a couple other components is um the uh flock has no contracts or um relationship with ICE or homeland security. Um and there are no federal um agencies in state or national lookup. Um so the only way that um you know your agency would share with a federal government is if your agency specifically reached out to a federal agency and said here we want to you know share information with you. The other thing I would note as well um is there you know is a way even within the system um to turn off any requests. So you won't even get a request um from any federal agency either. So there's a lot of really good safeguards in there um that can make sure that your community is only uh sharing with whom you want to share with. Um and we're also aware of the um uh around 2530 uh agencies that chose not to renew with FL last year. Mix of reasons, some budget, some other issues, some concerns. Um but over 925 that same year um either uh re-up their contracts or joined us for the first time. So the vast majority of agencies around the country and communities voted to stay with Flock or to join us for the first time.

Thank you.

In Flock's um agreement, are you aware of their uh default agreement? Uh the contract um gives the right to flock for worldwide perpetual royalty-free right and license to disclose agency data to sh and to share data with federal agencies for investigative purposes even if a local department chooses to restrict the data. This clause effectively gives Block the ability to override any restrictions that local PDs have written into the contract and essentially provides ownership rights to the data forever.

Yep. So, we cannot send any of your data to any other agency without your permission. Our terms and conditions are public. They're on our website. In section 4.1 of our terms and conditions explicitly identifies our customers as the owner of the data uh with two provisions of when flock will ever work with the customer to access that data. The first one would be to provide the service. So essentially to provide our basic services. The second one is when there are um issues or errors which are few and far between. But if a customer reaches out to us and says, "Hey, we got a wrong plate read or something of that nature," we're able to with the customer um uh work with them on that issue. But we absolutely do not have a blanket uh ability to access customer data and it's it's explicit in our terms and conditions again that are public for anyone to see online. Um that our customers fully they own their data.

Okay. But there is that clause in the contract. I haven't seen your contract, but I'm familiar with our um our standard contract. Yes. So, our standard contract does not give us the right to share um without your permission. And it's on it's fully online on our website. You can uh anyone can access that language. Okay. Thank you, Councilman McKe. to your point, if it if you have that for us either now or after, I'll I'll follow up on anything that we have questions on or we need clarity on. Um I haven't seen that specific one, but I'll read it again with your uh intentional focus. It's in the contract.

Do council member, do you have the clause or section of the contract that that is? I have the contract, but could you let us know what Yes, of course. Did you want to let us know now or we'll do it afterwards? Let's finish.

Okay. Well, well, okay. Okay. And I if I if I may, Council President, just one thing. Um I I think and not to speak for our police chiefs, I I think that when they hear a crime being solved, um how many, you know, has flocked helped crimes solve. Uh sometimes I think it's okay, that was the final thing that that cracked the case or solved it. Of course, there's many tools. It's a piece of a puzzle that I'm sure Flock and these cameras have been a part of whether from again a a car theft that they're putting together an eyewitness that they're doing things with that as well. And I think that if this has helped solve uh or help thousands of people, I understand the concerns that might be going on in Georgia or the one or two cases that you brought up. Um but you know I think that we have to keep in mind that with technology uh with law enforcement you know things uh may occur but uh you know take a one incident versus a thousand incidents um you know I think that that's worth pointing out and that's worth considering as well.

There are many incidents. I look forward to see the part of the contract. It's in the contract. Um, council member. Yeah, she just said the clause. Yes. Go ahead. Just read. All right. I'm not Okay, folks, please. I just wanted to You'd like to move this meeting along. I agree. Um, Chief folks, please.

You know, can I just say again, this is not about um automatic license plate readers that we're trying to take that tool away. And I think uh I saw uh Chief Barker, I think in one of the videos um that you said you've been u using these tools for about 16 years. So that predates the flock uh contract, right? And so you have used other um other um vendors for these license plate. Can you talk about those? Yeah, I I used the the 17ish years because that's what I've been here and they were here when I first got here.

Um they've been present mobile readers on cars. There was some fixed readers or readers that are installed in certain locations over the years. Sometimes vendors changed. In 2019, I was given the responsibility of technology and grants for the agency and basically given two spoken unspoken commandments by city council meetings, the the mayor, the the community at large was the city camera system and the technology that supports the reduction of violent crime in the city of Troy. We were dealing with significant issues uh with Troy vers Albany violence there. Individuals from Troy would go over to Albany and commit violent acts. People from Albany would then come and retaliate into Troy. LPRs was one of u the potential solutions in addition to our city camera system. Uh there was conversations at the county level amongst all the police agencies to determine what the potential options were. At the time, many of the other vendors were extremely expensive and then limited in their ability to detect anything more than just license plates. And to everyone's point, an ALPR is a is a good technology to have in and of itself. If we have a partial plate, if we know the full plate, we can start to do some work, start to generate some leads with that information. What Flock offered at the time in comparison to the other vendors was a lightweight installation. So, our previous installations were resourceheavy and were meant to be permanent. Flock also offered a cheaper cost which was the main drawback to all the local municipalities and then also that ability to also capture some sort of vehicle analytics not occupant analytics but vehicle analytics because it's much more often we get to a scene where it's the eyewitness testimony is not necessarily oh it was license plate you know ALB or something I saw a gray sedan and or I saw a black SUV and and as we continue to talk about use cases not too

long ago there was a shots fired incident on Sternard Avenue in or North Central. A gentleman got out of a car, fired some rounds down a block, got back in the car and fled. Uh we had some community support in that area that made some observations that it was a dark-coled SUV. That's all we had. Because a flock, we were able to identify vehicles that were nearby. They're not on every single street segment. We can't track where every single vehicle is at any time, but looking in the nearby area, we started to develop leads of a dark colored SUV. are able to corroborate other investigative information with that information and then later we find that vehicle in South Troy with the suspect who makes admissions and assault rifles. So, it's those kind of things that Flock led us to consider as a potential option and then beat out the other vendors. As technology improves, there's, you know, we can continue to take a look at the varieties available, but as you've heard from our members, Flock is doing what it promised us it would do and helps us generate leads to solve crimes and hopefully assist people.

But there are other vendors. Absolutely. There's there's there's vendors of everything, I would imagine. And in this case, I'm not you know, I'm not I'm a Troy police officer. I'm not paid by Faulk. not paid by anybody else. I'll take any considerations. There's vendors for all sorts of things that fill our email inboxes every day and we give up them to the due regard that we can, but iffied with a uh product, I'm not sure what would necessarily draw us from it. Uh but that's certainly not my decision, my decision alone. Thank you. Council member McLaren,

is the information I know it's only retained for 30 days, but in that 30 days, can any Joe or Jane Schmo foil it for any reason.

Yeah. Is it on? Yeah. So the as far as I know the information is not maintained directly by the city. the it is maintained on a flock server someplace and so it's it's not a a it's not a it's not a a a record

that we have in our possession so I don't I don't really know the answer to to your question I haven't thought about it enough but uh I mean we we create the record we send it or we send data to Flock and Flock holds the record for us but then I guess it disappears after 30 days is that Steve. Okay. So, it may not be foilable then. But if if a followup go ahead. Yes. Can I ask a followup to that? So, with that logic, emails wouldn't be foilable because Microsoft holds the emails in their cloud. So, we have

I don't know. I don't know how you I mean, I have email on my computer screen all the time or something like that. I don't really know. I'm not a computer guy. So, I'm just putting that out there. If we're using that logic, email is also not foilable. And I don't know what what would be foilable. Is it just the license plate numbers that were read? Sure. And the location. If you're if you're trying to track down somebody that drives a car with, you know, TR668 and you foil any instance that that license plate has been spotted by foil technology or by flock technology,

would I have access to that? Because it can be looked up because we know that's the point of the license plate reader. I I would just I mean remind everyone I mean a license plate is not a private document. It's a public facing document and anyone can take a license plate number. Sure. But not everybody has Can I finish what I said? Yes. Sorry. And anyone can take a license plate number to DMV and say who owns this car. Sure. But if if if someone knows who owns the car and that's the person they are trying to find, and I'm not, you know, I'm not talking about a law enforcement officer, a private investigator. I'm talking about some citizen who is stalking someone or trying to find someone.

They know their name. They know their license plate number. They want to know, is this person in Troy? How where has this person been spotted in Troy? Let me foil this license plate technology and find out. I mean, I think that is one of the concerns that that is a way to get around. You don't have to hack into the camera. You can foil the information that the camera gets. I don't know what the foil would look like. I mean, and I don't know what the if you foiled one particular plate number. We don't maintain a record like that. If if right, we'd have to do the search to find it as something like that. Right.

But is that something Okay. Right. Well, it I I believe it is, but that's okay. Okay. That that was something brought up to us more than one time that we I felt it was important to address, right? I mean, really, we haven't dealt with it before and you know, people are seriously concerned about it. Okay. Could Could the uh representative from Flock uh speak to that?

Yeah. So, I I'm definitely sorry I'm not going to try to interpret New York state law on this call. I'm not an attorney. Um so, I'd recommend the legal council take a look at that. I'll just say that uh many states do exempt the specific information on the photo itself, meaning the photo of the license plate from public record because of the the concern that you're presenting. But I would encourage you all to take a look at uh New York state law and see what it says there. But many states do exempt the actual photo from um public record. There is an exemption under New York law for uh a release that would endanger any person.

Wow. Would you necess Well, I I'm sure we could go back and forth all night about this. The reason that I asked is because it has been brought up to us more than once by concerned citizens and I figured, you know, I mean, I I I owe it to them to to ask the question.

Council member, if I can just add too, I think that in this day and I agree with you that we want to protect anybody, especially if they're being stalked or any situation that you're laying out, it's a valable concern. But I do just think that we should note that in this day and age, I would imagine to track down somebody's license plate or what they're doing probably find it a bit easier than going through the process that you just laid out. I I've never been a stalker, so I don't know. Okay. I'm not I was not suggesting that you were a deputy mayor. Not at all.

I You're I understand. And I'm not a stalker either. I don't have enough time for that. I was just trying to blur a little comment sets, but I appreciate that. Um I did have question.

Um so the you looked over looked at your inventory or whatever and decided what you wanted to do for the upcoming contract and sent it over to the city for the procurement. Do you have a ballpark of when that was? We got this most recent contract within the last week or two. There was uh determined for a long time now that there was going to be no obviously we'd always like uh potentially to cover more areas. Um not everywhere, but

um without discussing the specific locations, you want key entry and exit points to Troy and then maybe a major thoroughare here or there. Um, but throughout this entire program, I don't think we anticipated adding any more. So, it was um waiting until the end of this contract. And again, I I can recognize uh the conversations, but nothing here was intentional on the police department's point or any person's point. Uh, we went through a transition of our technology and grants captain. I realize that's not your problem, but that's what we dealt with. Captain David Dean is now in the uh position after being recently promoted. He's given a few tasks. One of which is hey they get us an updated FL contractor submission for procurement. Thanks council member McKe.

Um I just wanted to go over the logs to get a better understanding. Um and I think I my understanding is that there are two types of audit logs organizational and network. The organizational logs are Troy's internal logs depicting the searches conducted by your officers and the other network logs are these are comprised of searches of Troy's cameras made by outside agencies. So you have those logs

those logs exist within the system. Both of them typically contain a lot of investigative data what the individual what the either the police off the Troy police officer or the other other agency's police officers are looking for and so and many times most of it contains investigative data which is why the audit that was procured or that was brought to you is the captain's review of those logs to make sure that there's uh that they're authorized searches and then he prepares that document that doesn't have that investigative data on it. Is is there any way the uh council over a period of time would be able to review those logs?

Probably a question for the corp council. My only concern would be the the investigative information that's on it. I don't know like I know that we have access to them.

Well, it would have like with so it would say this officer agency is investigating a homicide. they might put in the narrative of this vehicle plate or something of that nature. Um because of that information and I'll touch on some of the because I try to read as much comments public feedback I see on it. Um I see that another when uh different hacks are being discussed. one is have I been flocked where foil releases or audits are released to certain individuals and then that those individuals can aggregate that data and show that an officer searched for this plate and then put it on that have I've been flocked so that the individual can go see and I think there's a benefit to knowing that you've been searched but by improper release of those investigative records you're potentially releasing data that we otherwise shouldn't be and then leading people to be susceptible to that information being out in the public. So, uh, it's probably a question above me.

Well, it wouldn't be the public, it's the city council as a control

to that point. Um, council member, what is what what exactly are you are you laying out in the spirit of trying to work together here on this? What what what control would that provide that list to um more or less make sure that the searches are being conducted properly? It's an oversight. How would the list provide that for for you? I I I'm just trying to get where you're coming from to understand how to make sure that um the officers are um the officers that have access to it or that input into the searches are authorized.

I don't know. You have a policy safe. No, I get Well, and and I get using words like safeguards and stuff. I'm actually asking in actuality what do you what do safeguards make sense I understand it but just saying the word safeguard or saying the word we just want the list I'm trying to understand what information you would garner from that to provide the safeguarding that you are looking for

you have a policy right on how this so how do you um evaluate that how do you evaluate to make sure that the policy is being adhered to by your officers and that outside agencies aren't um um accessing this data. So what to do searches what that captain is looking for both internal and externally is that those fields are being populated with the reason code and a case number or reference to the case. Right. And so that's in the log. Is that correct?

That's in the audit. that's within flock within flock and then what that captain is doing is reviewing that to make sure it's both present and then specific to the Troy police instances he's going back to anyone that there's not a case number he's going back date and time to determine that there was some sort of authorized activity that that uh search matches whatever the incident we were working on is so the audit of the logs that you do would satisfy that concern concern that everything is being done according to the policy. Yes. Okay.

Okay. Um I noticed that the cost from 23 to 24 uh jumped by 128%. Can you can you explain why? pretty uh our original contracts were pretty early on in u Fox business model and the costs went up. But did you add uh features or did you add more cameras uh in which year? In 21 we uh purchased the uh 23 23 to 24 it went from 41,850 to 95780. Yes, we added the cameras.

Okay. So to bring us to a total of 26 and then in 24 26 cameras in 2024 we also uh co-termed the the two contracts like there was it was 11 and 15 and we brought them all into one um just to have ease of use and ease of organization and um what account are the um expenditures coming out of? It's one thing I know our auditor was trying to ascertain out of rentals. I'm sorry. Out of rentals because it was originally a subscriptionbased service.

And have you received any funds um any grants to to buy these um to buy the cameras or to um No. No. These are included in our budget each year. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Council member Campbell Cohen. Thank you, Council President. This is a question for Carrie if you're available. Carrie, does Flock ever engage as like a bidder in a competitive procurement process? Uh I I Yes, I would imagine. Yes. Like would we would we apply for essentially compete for a bid within a city or county? That's that's exactly

answer is yes. Yes. And you win some of those contracts and you lose some of those contracts. Yep. I'd imagine. Yep. I'm not on I'm not on our sales team, but I would Yes. Imagine that's a fair statement.

Okay. I'm curious, I guess now directing this to the chiefs, why we ourselves can't put this out to bid and if Flock is the best vendor, then Flock's the best vendor. but at least have a sort of competitive process for be you know you mentioned that at the time when you were making these decisions there there were specifications that you were looking out for flock seemed like the best pick I'm I'm curious why what it what it is about flock that excludes that sort of procurement

so part of the single source application to the city is all the local municipalities that also are customers of flock and so it allows us for that transient crime in order to identify vehicles that are used in other uh you know other communities. Uh and so that is that is what makes Flock as a vendor like distinct from LPRs as as a product category is the is that service that they're providing that you can't get from anyone else. Well, it's just the local saturation for us of Uhhuh. Okay. Have have other municipalities been having these kinds of conversations to the best of your knowledge? I think flocks a hot topic across many uh communities

throughout the country. I think um throughout the country an answer to that question and I think maybe that's where this arose. But to your initial question, uh, Council Member Con Campbell, um, Campbell Con, sorry. Um, there have been, um, other mayors who have contacted me and they are from both sides of the aisle who do not want to see um, flock discontinued. So, in full disclosure, I have received texts from surrounding municipalities, you know, just um stating that they would like to see this continue and they work with our municipality, our police department and um work together.

Okay. Directing a question back at Carrie if you're still available. Are you able to speak at all on um the situation in Syracuse at the moment? Uh yep. Aware that Syracuse decided to um not continue their contract with Flock uh and they uh uh then entered into a contract with Axon. Um so, you know, I'm familiar with that situation. I understand there was concerns around the federal government. I'll note uh we are the one out of those two companies that does not have a massive multi-million dollar contract with ICE.

I see. And what about Axon's cameras is what I guess phrased another way, what makes Syracuse a place where they would be able to switch from flock to Axon, but we could not is it again that saturation that we're talking about? You know, I'm not quite sure the rationale behind those the council members there. Um I I don't want to speak for them. Um, what are you doing in reaction to their decision? Um, I'm sorry. Can you be more not you the person, I mean Flock?

No. Yeah. Yeah. Do you mean like what are we what are we doing when after the Syracuse council members decided to end that contract early? What did Flock then do? So, um, again, if if a community within their rights ends the contract, um, then we remove our cameras. Is that what you're doing in Syracuse right now? My understanding, yes. No, not you are not our cameras in Syracuse. Okay. I mean,

I I don't let me I don't know of any issue of us objecting to removing our cameras there. Now, does it happen the morning after? I'm sure not. You know, there you got to set up field teams and and and things of the such. Um, but I'm not familiar uh with any issues there. I mean, I can check on that, but uh I don't I'm not aware of any issues of us uh not complying with their wishes. Okay, folks, please. Again, that ends my line. That's it. Okay. Uh any other council members? Council member Dorenzo, do you have any questions? Uh chair.

Oh, or President, sorry. Um no, it's fine. I was just when you had mentioned that this was being paid from the uh rentals line in the budget and this is getting in the weeds so I don't know if you have this answer right now but do you know if it's rentals equipment or rentals other

that and I'll have to get back to you. Okay. It's one yes I mean there's only two lines and I'm I'm I forget which one it comes out of. Yeah. Um and I don't know if do you have it there in front of you? Whichever line is the larger line is the one that it's rentals other other. Yes. Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we had enough money in the budget to cover that. I obviously don't know what other rentals fall under that line. Um well, yeah. I mean, sometimes we rent vehicles and stuff for investigations and there's a number of different other in the resolution.

Sorry. Um, I guess what's just holding me up throughout this entire process is that um, and this question is for the administration. If you were being so transparent, how come we are not having this, we didn't have this conversation in January?

Once again, we are coming to the council. It did not go to the council in the past. I'll repeat while I Let's move. Please let me finish. Will you please let please folks could we please let Thank you. In the past the contract did not even go to the council stating that when council president please. I I'm doing my best. Um it's I I can't muzzle.

So council So council member once again in the past 2021 when this contract was signed off it did not go to the council. I was on the council at that time 2023 once again more cameras did not go to the council. So saying that we are coming to the council, it's to be renewed at the end of March, beginning of April. We are coming to the council before the contract expires. We wouldn't come to the council in January for a contract that expires in March. So stating that we are coming to the council as the contract expires in due time. I I don't know how to better explain it. We are being transparent. The public is the public on both sides of the aisle have an opportunity to speak. We value all of those comments. So, our administration is being transparent coming to the council. Could this have been signed behind closed doors as in the past? We're not allowing that. We are coming to the council before the contract expires requesting that the council support clock cameras which our police use every day, twice a day, three times a day as part of our tools and resources. If the council is interested in over the next two years to look at a different vendor, we're willing to put down our feet. Right now, we are coming to the council to renew the present contract for two more years. And if the council wants us to look at putting out an RFP, we're willing to do that as we mentioned. But stating that

we are coming to the council for renewal. We are being transparent and we are working with you. And you have the police in front of you telling you that the flack cameras have helped solve crimes from homicides to harassment to missing persons. Sometimes three times a week, sometimes 10 times a week. We're asking for for that tool in resource, a two near uh year renewal, and we'll put out for a fee if so. the council. Uh we will look at that.

Thank you. And and to reiterate, thank you to the police department for being here. I do hear you and I hear how valuable this tool is. Um what I just want to reiterate is as a council member who's being asked of this decision. It doesn't feel like I have a decision because the contract is ending regardless of or will renew regardless of whether or not how I how I what decision I make. if we could answer that. Um I I know Oh, I thought that you wanted to say something on that. No. Okay. Um but but stating that you do have a decision. So yeah, it's been made for us. The decision was made uh already.

We would not be here if that decision was I am putting that on the table. Yes. With all due respect, read the contract. And we have it's very clear and we have read the contract and we are coming to the council because it is over that threshold and we are here asking the council to support that. So you're not an attorney council president. I'm not an attorney council president. I asked your attorney and I got an answer.

And the court counsel and the court council d council president please it please. Please council president. You asked me what the contract said. You read it to me. I agreed with you that that's what it says. That's a different question than whether or not that clause is enforceable. Thank you. So ask it now. So So then you're telling me, excuse me. Could you give him back the mic? So you're telling me we actually have some we have some uh a decision to make. You've been asked to make a decision and whether or not you will authorize the mayor to enter into the agreement.

Council President, when legal arguments, you know, go through courts for years to determine ultimate, you know, who's liable, who's not liable. Council President, Council Member Stubber,

uh, this is probably still for uh, Corp Council. So, logistically, there are still a lot of answers that many people are going to be getting based on our questions. If this does not move forward today, knowing that it expires at the end of the month and we are already in our 30-day grace period, logistically if we do not renew by March 31st, is there a grace period for us? Like what happens in the interim if it takes longer to get the answers that we have asked for?

So the grace period would be determined by essentially by flop. whether or not whether or not you know they wanted to go forward. I mean they I presume they want to be paid uh before they provide my many more services. So uh I'm not sure how long they would be willing to abide by uh further investigation by the council or something like that but that's up to them. They probably value us as a customer and uh not everything is done according to the letter of a contract even though you have a right to do it. Carrie, is that something you can speak to?

Yeah, I'm sorry folks. I have not reviewed your contract and I'm not comfortable commenting on the specifics of it. Um um so uh Rick then you're comfortable uh defending the council um if we choose not to uh go forward with this agreement even though the 30-day grace period even though excuse me I defend the city of Tro I don't defend justice okay so if you choose it is a question of enforcability right that That question is not writen down anywhere.

So you have to you you have to go to court and defend your your position. So are you comfortable are you comfortable defending the city. Whether I'm comfortable or not doesn't matter. That's my duty to do that. Yeah. Okay. Well, I really would have liked an answer, but thank you anyway. Um does any other council member have any questions?

Okay. Thank you. Uh anyone else? All righty. I want to thank everyone uh chiefs, corporation council, mayor, deputy mayor for your your time this evening and um appreciate uh the answers. And at this point, we're going to take a little uh break to do some shuffling in the room. We're going to prepare for the public forum. So, we'll remove the table. We'll move up the podium. And um I hear there's pizza in the house. I

All right. really clean. Oh, did you see who it was? Everyone please take their seats.

Could everyone please take their seats? Um, we have an overflow crowd. This is the first in my history here on the council. We have uh folks in the conference room who are seated and I want to uh acknowledge that they should have an opportunity to speak as well. Um we're going to keep this door open so they can walk through from the conference room to this door. So, um, if if there's someone at that door, could we take turns and and and make this um as civil as possible? That sounds good. Um, I I appreciate your cooperation. Um, I just would also remind you that during committee meetings, the rules call for a five minute timeline. You don't have to use all five minutes, but please don't use more because we have many people who want to speak and we want to hear them. So, I will uh declare the public forum open and please uh share your name and place of residence and if you don't want your face on the camera, let us know. We can turn it off. But, um

we'll have a time Oh, okay. That's true. Uh, we'll have those. If you don't want to be on camera, um, wait until the end, I guess. Okay. Yes. Thank you.

Sting. Oh, there we go. Hi. Um, my name is Elise Joanna Coats. My friends call me Joe. Everyone really calls me Joe. Uh I live in district four. I believe I live in downtown Troy. I am the child of Stephen and uh Jill Coats and the grandchild of William and Elizabeth Coats. All of whom who have lived in the city of Troy. I was born in the city of Troy. I lived in Troy for eight years before moving away for my parent uh for my dad's job and then I returned to Troy to get my PhD here. I am a student at RPI studying biochemistry and bioysics and I hope to raise a family here. I'm starting to approach that age where I am going to have kids soon and I refuse to raise my kids in a city where their image playing at the park can be accessible to any pedophile or predator who happens to have access to the internet. In December 2022, a video was released in which it was found that Flock had posted a link to all of their video footage in from cameras in Los Angeles County just to the internet. No password needed, nothing. This footage was pulled and prodded and who knows who was able to access it because once something is on the internet, it is on the internet forever. I know a lot about internet security as somebody who works with a lot of data and technology and proprietary information. I'm not allowed to use a thumb drive at RPI at all because it could be hacked. And yet, we are using software that is very easily accessible. What will Flock do with our data if we do break this contract? We don't know because in the contract themselves and on their website they state that they do own our data. They will own our data. And so to close, I would implore you as somebody who wants to continue my family legacy in this great city that we get to call our home. Do not vote yes on this. Terminate the contract. Do not continue to support Faulk. Thank you. Thank you.

Folks, come on. This is only going to prolong our our efforts here. Can we please mayor. Okay. I believe they they can't hear us. You don't think they can hear? Well,

there's certainly no they're invited. I I can't control their actions. Um,

good evening. My name is Skyler. I uh live in the sixth district and have moved here in 2024 from Texas. Uh fly cameras are a nightmare for the privacy, safety, and security of the people they claim to protect. Ah, as has been extensively established through this uh meeting uh but they have over 20 vulnerabilities that are included but not limited to. They're uh were running Android 8 over four years after it had reached end of life. Uh meaning that it had not received security updates in over four years. As she stated, many of the CN Condor cameras uh can be accessed on the open internet without password allowing anyone to watch. Flock claims that the images are stored for only a month. However, the uh images on the devices themselves have been accessible without encryption. uh for as long as for several months up to when they were photos from the factory when they were built. These cameras often have the same hard-coded built-in Wi-Fi credentials which would enable people to spoof that uh allowing them to be accessed even easier. Uh uh flock cameras are also rife for abuse that violates the laws of our state. I moved here from Texas as I said and New York has laws in place to protect those who come from uh places like Texas for reproductive care, refusing warrants and subpoenas for that would otherwise force compliance. But flock by its nature as a tool of interstate surveillance can and has been used to circumvent those laws. Uh sheriff in Johnson County, Texas used flock cameras uh to track and attempt to charge a woman who was having an abortion in Colorado. This can happen

with or without the consent of the city. For example, in Mountain View, Colorado or California, as was discussed, uh, flock enabled nationwide sharing without the police department's knowledge, resulting in multiple federal agencies accessing the data of their citizens comingings and goings. These cameras are meant to improve public safety, but if anything, they make me fear for my safety more. They put more people at risk of being held at gunpoint because a clanker mistook a two for a seven. They make a mockery of our fourth amendment rights. And what they do uh is what all AI tools do. They take the thought out of work that should be done by humans. And when the tool gets something wrong, it is the people that suffer. Thank you.

Trying to do the zipper method and let the folks in the hall come in. President Steele, members of the council, good evening. My name is Rachel and I am a renter resident of district 4 and my council person is the lovely Norine McKe. Like many others, I am here to express my concerns about the proposed continued cooperation between the administration of Troy, New York, and the mass surveillance platform Flock Safety. I am advocating for a cancellation or refusal of any current or anticipated contracts with Flock Safety. Specifically, the resolution on the table tonight authorizing the mayor to renew the city's current contract with Flock, as well as removal of all of the at least 26 known Flock safety devices within the city of Troy. Flock safety camera and license plate reader systems have proven time and time again that they are dangerous, inaccurate, and do not make a measurable difference when it comes to actual crimes. At least in the city of Troy, where there has been no databased evidence that this is the case. The system violates the American expectation of the right to privacy that everyone in the United States of America, citizen or not, is entitled to enjoy without any sort of consequence for flock. Additionally, despite the affirmations from the city administration that our flock data is used only internally within the city of Troy, there has been no accountability or actual factual confirmation that this is the case. I'm also concerned that despite allocating over $27 million of the 2026 Troy budget to the Troy Police Department, even with constant cries of they want to defund the police, are these officers still so ineffective at performing their jobs and doing real police work that they need a network of AI cameras to do it for them? Surely this is not the same police department that Mayor Mantel has been championing. Another question, will Troy face the same problems as Syracuse did last year while uh local flock LPR, which as we know is license plate reader technology, was searched over 4.4 million times by police across the country and shared with ICE. Even though Syracuse city administration promised that they would

not do so. Even if this administration makes similar promises, I can only assume that Troy will follow in Syracuse's footsteps and reneg on that promise should it ever be made in good faith. This is why a formal community engagement process is essential for both public input and public accountability. In May 2025 in Texas, as the previous speaker alluded to, a local law enforcement officer used data from Flock to search nationwide for a woman who was suspected of obtaining what was for her a necessary medical procedure, an abortion. Nationwide, including in states where abortion remains legal. New York is one of those states. Will Troy be complicit in similar violations simply because this administration refuses to back down on technologies that will directly harm and victimize residents? The data collected, of course, does not lie. In the capital region, the areas with flot cameras and ALPR sensors are also the areas where our neighbors are being abducted by ICE. This is publicly available information. And our neighbor, Aypical Tuesday, who I know is here tonight, has synthesized this data into accessible graphics that I suggest everyone look at. It is beyond willful ignorance and into the realm of a demonstrated lack of care to not understand this connection and be concerned by it. As a Troy resident, I am appalled that our own mayor, our own administration, can essentially write off the rights of a significant portion of people who pay their salaries. However, I understand that the unchecked expenditure of money is largely immaterial to the Mantel administration based on the proposal to continue spending money on flock, another $78,000 per year for a total of $156,000 over the proposed 2-year contract renewal. Enough to outfit several ambulances. I remember we just approved a $7,000 striker item. Um, on top of $7.9 million in outstanding city debts, taking on the burden of a botched rehab of yet another lease city hall location, the completion of an incredibly overdue city-wide lead pipe replacement, not corrosion control replacement project, and presumably

paying the mayor's tickets or buying another useful glass tent. I'd like to quickly review some of the current benefits that come with this flock subscription and ask everyone here if they are on board with these. I mean, I know the answer is no, but community network access, the ability to request direct access to feeds from privately owned Flock Safety LPR cameras located in your neighborhoods, at your schools, and at your businesses in your community, state, and nationwide networks allows agencies to look up license plates on all cameras opted into the flock safety network within your state. And I'm I'm reading from the Flock contract. With the vast Flock safety sharing network, law enforcement agencies no longer have to rely on just their devices alone. agencies can leverage a nationwide system boasting 10 billion additional license plate reads per month to amplify the potential to collect vital evidence in otherwise dead-end investigations. I counted five solved by Flock as mentioned by our uh previous speakers. It's important to note that these uh oh sorry I forgot one the ability to request uh direct access to evidence detection devices from law enforcement agencies outside your jurisdiction outside your jurisdiction. it's ICE. Um, and unlimited custom hot lists, whatever that means. Create a list of vehicles of interest and receive real-time alerts when they're detected by your Flock LPR cameras. It's important to note that these are features currently available with Flock uh, Troy's Flock safety subscription with the ability for updates and new features to be installed remotely without additional new camera infrastructure. These benefits can be expanded without any public input or council approval, though I guess we don't need that for Flock anyway. Um, as a Trojan, I am concerned. As an American, I am ashamed.

Can you shut the up, please? I'm speaking. Please. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's going on? He started heckling me from the hallway. Excuse me. I'm entitled to the same respect that you demanded when you were up earlier. Thank you. taking the hallway.

You're in a public place. As a Trojan, I am concerned. As an American, I am ashamed. What has happened to our right to privacy, to our right to live and let live? This city administration has gotten too big in its overreach, and the desire to control every aspect of residents lives is evident despite the good work being done by our city council to push back against those policies. I believed that Troy and Wler County as a whole were more aligned with those traditional constitutional values that uh some might say make America great. I'm concerned that Troy is becoming another arm of the surveillance state where residents are constantly monitored and watched by government agents. I have not gone over five minutes. Some folks live for a photo op, which is of course their choice. I'm not on board with this kind of street photography that cataloges my height, appearance, voice, and habits. This is not America, folks. This certainly isn't Troy. Over 30 other municipalities across the state agree with these demands. Cancel the cancel the contract with Flock. Take down the cameras and put a moratorium on mass surveillance technology and invest appropriately in your community safety.

My name Hi, my name is Candace. I live in district 4, but I've lived in various sections of Troy throughout my life. I've spoke here previously in January. Um, I had a lot that I wrote that I wanted to say within the time limit. However, I feel like after the extensive time that we spent listening to the administration and the flock representative, I feel less confident in um in this in their decision to renew. I'm going to try to read what I said or what I wrote, which is I'm ashamed of our administration, which I did adjust this as I listened, I will admit. So, some of it wasn't previous, but anyway. I'm ashamed of administration claiming to be voluntarily transparent, that would willfully renew a camera system operated and managed by this private company, one that has already recorded cases of misuse and abuse of their data before allowing our council to actually vote. um in which their p their um representative couldn't confirm or really answer anything from my opinion. He gave extremely vague answers which would only be to cover flock I can assume. Um I've had I've written that I'd seen a lot of people in Troy's discussion about flock claim that the data is only the license plates which is also proven not to be the case but I see now that the mayor was a significant part of why they say that. Um, yeah, whether it's by Troy or the company collecting it, that's simply not has been proven to not be the case. I disagree with Flock's previous allowance of agencies like ICE to access their data. This would undermine other attempts to limit the city's cooperation with ICE. And overall, this seems like a patchwork system to quote safeguard Troy without taking into account the privacy and welfare of its residents amidst federal abuse of power. This is not public safety. It is an attempt at a surveillance state which would additionally b additionally not just cause it disrupt faith that we should have in our city and its administration. And it's honestly not the it from my public perspective it doesn't seem like

the first time that this administration has willfully hid a contract or renewal such as pushing the vote early for Proctor's 30-year lease. Um, I don't think something like this belongs in Troy when the funds that it would um that it would cost and is costing due to the renewal um could be that are used for any number of currently existing and actually beneficial infrastructure. And as a side note, and I wrote this before I watched our mayor post um text and talk on Facebook throughout her um residence speaking, um I find it deeply unprofessional to open Facebook and see the mayor publicly posting in relation to go the government on her personal social media in a way that purposefully furthers residents confusion and misunderstanding around this discussion. I would like to remind her that any Troy resident, not just her friends, can see these posts and comments that she leaves on social media and she has the responsibility to use those public posts with the professionalism that it calls for. And as a resident in the city that she is supposed to be handling professionally, I should not be able to be afraid to respond to these comments that she again publicly posts on social media because I know that she would block me for disagreeing with her given that chance. and that is and the fact there are six open seats that she could sit in and she chooses to sit in the hallway and post on that Facebook. So, I hope that she takes this into account along with the rest of her administration. Thank you.

Thank you, Candace. Yeah. Speaking of Facebook, I'd like to before I give my statement, I just want to clarify what just happened so that whatever is spouted about me tomorrow, first of all, I would like to sincerely apologize for my language to the council and to the entire room. I got very heated. What happened was I noted that the mayor was on her phone in the hallway. I raised my phone to take a picture as we are in a public place and I am consenting to use that phone. Thank you. And the chief of police went, "Oh, so now you like cameras." And they all began pointing and jeering and laughing at me. And then I'm sorry, the other gentlemen.

Yeah, you all. Anyway, you were all standing out there. I couldn't tell who was who. Somebody said something to me. Okay. The point is, the point is after I said that, I was then pointed at, the young lady speaking ahead of me was interrupted, and an armed officer entered the room. Why are you trying to intimidate us, mock us from doing what we are allowed to do, which is photograph you in a public place and also make our statements known. Thank you. All right, I'll give my statement now. I just wanted to clarify that. I I believe we wanted the chief in the room to hear us. I would like that as well. And he is in the room here. I I I apologize. I did not

I did not I I think I misidentified the person who had who had made a comment to me. It was one of the people out in the hallway. That's the chief. The chief is in the room and he is listening. Great. Thank you.

All right. My name is HG. Um, I live downtown and as always I want to begin by acknowledging that Troy is built on the indigenous and unseated lands of the Hodnosani Mohakin and Scatakote people. Um, I wanted to just quickly say that Carmela, who told me to watch my mouth, stated that the prior mayor didn't go before the council on flock and I completely agree with her. That is bad. It's bad no matter who does it. But that doesn't mean we're going to give you praise for doing the bare minimum of letting the council talk, especially when, as council members stated, they did not receive the reports that they asked for in a timely manner. And the last time I was here, I spoke about an experience where my car was broken into in a parking garage. I'm not even necessarily opposed to there being some kind of cameras. Just not these ones. Not these ones that are going to use AI to track and profile people and sell that data to a private company. Much of their operation is shrouded in mystery. Proponents of the contract say the cameras are here for our protection. I saw someone on Facebook say, "If you aren't a criminal, you have nothing to worry about." I'm not a criminal, but I am a woman. And as a woman, I'm in constant fear of stalking and abuse. And I'm in community with black folks who every day have to wonder if to police will rally profile them the way that they profiled and murdered Edson Vein. When Carmela was mentioning VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME, I NOTICED SHE didn't mention him. And for those who don't know, Edson Zean was a black man who was allegedly driving under the influence and was murdered. Carmela Montello is a white woman who was convicted of driving under the influence and she's our mayor.

If Patrol City Hall was so concerned about catching criminals, what about the one that we have in office? I digress. Demonstrabably these c these cameras have already endangered people in the communities that I mentioned. Like the gentleman who spoke before me said, the ACLU said, quote, "The same kinds of police department logs that revealed ISIS's access to Flock's Dragnet also revealed that a police officer in Texas used the system to search nationwide for a woman who had a self-administered abortion. This means that police officers stalked this woman from state to state. You say that that's happening thousands of miles away, BUT WHAT IF WE'RE NEXT?" And as to the subject of ICE, it is well known at this point that Flock sells their data to ICE through their former partnership with Ring cameras. We don't know what happened to that data and they claimed that they don't have a partnership with ICE, BUT I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT doesn't stop individual agents from accessing the network. And according to immigration policy tracking report, quote, reportedly more than 4,000 lookups have already been conducted at the behest of the federal government for immigration purposes. Giving federal offices side door access to a tool that it currently does not have a formal contract for. Exactly. Like almost all white people, I'm not indigenous to this land. I'm the defendant. I am the descendant of Irish and Scottish immigrants who fled the British colonial empire. So, I repeat what many before me have said, which is stating that no one is illegal on stolen land. And despite that, our mayor, who is herself not indigenous, refuses to take a stand against ICE. Let me read you a statement from city hall about a motion to condemn ICE. This is getting a little off topic, but I want to bring it up while I'm here. The city council approved this motion, which I hardily applaud you for, but Mayor Montello refused to sign it. Her statement read, quote, "I will neither sign nor veto this resolution. The Troy Police Department will continue to focus strictly on criminal matters, not civil immigration enforcement. If you're not focusing on civil immigration enforcement, why are you requesting $156,000 for a company that is known to collude with ICE? ICE kidnaps and rapes and kills our neighbors. People are going missing IN THE STREETS. CHILDREN ARE COMING HOME to find THEIR PARENTS ARE GONE. SO MANY YOUNG GIRLS and women have been raped in ICE detention centers

that there's national news coverage about THE FORCE PREGNANCIES. WHY WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE LIKE THAT HERE? AREN'T YOU A WOMAN? DO YOU WANT OTHER WOMEN TO HAVE TO GO through that? You can stand there and smile and shake your head, but it's true. IT'S HAPPENING AND I DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN HERE. People have already gone missing and Troy, my neighbors HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED. HOW CAN YOU DO THIS KNOWING to happen to people? I DEMAND THE FLOCK CAMERAS are removed permanently in the city. Allow the public to decide before they swap the flock out for a competitor. Please, please vote no to renewing the CONTRACT WITH FLOCK. STOP ENABLING ICE agents to act in our city. And I demand that the mayor accept the city council's resolution and limit that activity. I applaud you guys for passing a resolution to condemn ICE in February. But that's not a one-time thing. You have TO KEEP GOING. YOU have to keep pushing back. We are the people of Tri and we have a political and moral obligation to hold all of this government accountable. You are our government. You work for us. And no matter what snarky thing the mayor may say about me on Facebook tomorrow morning, I'm going to keep showing up here and I'm going to keep pushing back. And so are all the rest of us because the people united will never be defeated. The people united will never be defeated. The people united will never be defeated. Thank you. Good evening, council members. Thank you for taking the time to review this topic. It's very important to our community. My name is Michael Gardner. I've lived in Troy, New York for the past 13 years. I've been in the downtown, but now I'm over on the east side right now. Um, so I care. First off, I hope you guys got my letter about this. Uh, my background for the people in the room, I went to Rensair

Polytechnic Institute. I graduated with a bachelor's and a master's science and I concentrated on artificial intelligence. So, it's a very divisive thing. I know. So, I know. Yeah. Everyone in my industry is ruined. They're standing in the hallway being a young woman just cried and your deputy mayor and I don't know who else. They're just standing in the hallway. Everybody has a right to speak here, but what's happening up here is disgusting. Thank you very much. Excuse me, Sheamus. I'd like my time. I'd like my time. I'd like to get home. All right.

I'm waiting for the president to return to the table so I can have attention. Let's cooperate. They cooperated with you. Hey, Sheamus. Sheamus, can you listen to me, please?

Okay. Um,

folks, this is going to go on forever if we can't rectify this. Let's let's work together. Let's please listen to the speaker and be respectful both inside the room and outside. So what I'm trying to get at is my degree allows me to differentiate how to make a CPU from a GPU and understanding how these LLMs work. It's a very hot topic right now and to cite to the people in this room. The point of my letter is to point out the combination of profit focused autonomous software technology and an easily accessible and exploitable online camera over array. Um, I also want to I I learned something new this evening because it's it's important to listen to everyone. I saw that um we've had this contract since 2021. I think that's incredibly important for the wrinkle of how this is developed. LLM technology and how I'm super concerned about the exploitation from AI software has really come into its own in since 2024. Prior to that, the machine learning technology for image recognition for license plate reporting is uh was more infant and very difficult to use for the types of things that people are really very concerned about. Now, um I'm also disappointed in the Flock camera company for not sending a technical specialist able to answer our questions. I can tell you as someone in my uh first foray in software entrepreneurship, I was focused on college campus security for the accountability of police officers and empowering community members and um I went to conferences like ISC West over in Las Vegas for these sorts of tools that uh for security and protection and the type of software that I see from flock can't

pass the snuff for actual professionals there. The ability to actually encrypt and protect your data as it goes down the line is incredibly important. And it's incredibly disappointing that the uh the expert that we had from the company was not able to answer our representatives very simple questions about SOCK 2 compliance, especially SOCK 2 type 2 compliance for continuous data transfer. that is continuous auditing to make sure that your data is isolated and protected. I'm also um upset that the how to put it the people from Flock do not explain their software to our police department correctly and they set them up for failure to let them hold the bag. It's not their fault for being the person to hold the bag on this, but we have to be accountable to where we are now. The software that we have now is very useful for people to use to discover unsecured devices online. And in this very moment, it is more easier than ever for someone to automate an artificial intelligence bot like say by Claude or Chat GPT to conduct public trading or speculative betting on things like Poly Market. It's very easy for these bots to look at an unsecure camera and look at all the data there and exploit it as a public data broker. I want to remind everyone that the Pentagon does not have a declassified definition of surveillance, but it does have a definition for how it acquires data on the public market. We're very close to being very exploited by some very awful people. So, I want us to make sure that we are

paying people in the community to protect the community. I don't want us to pay some data center somewhere in Silicon Valley where they're morally bankrupt and unaccountable and have no ethics. And I would say another description would be sort of like borish, but it starts with a W. So, we need to get out of this contract. We need to find a more reputable software solution, something that's solely focused on license plates if that is the goal. It is important that we have tools that make sense that don't change over time. It's really important to understand that government moves very slowly, but software works in agile sprints. It moves by two weeks and these AI companies are looking to balance their balance sheet from their extraordinary expenses and they're looking for any way to balance it, including talking to Flock. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Michael. It's easier. You can just hold it. Yeah. Oh, can I?

Um, good evening. It's past my bedtime. Um, my name is Jane. I live in District 4. Hello, Counselor McKe. Um, I'm here in opposition to the resolution authorizing the mayor to renew the city's contract with Flock and I do recommend terminating the contract. Um, Troy does not need a corporation gathering surveillance data under the guise of public safety. It does not make me feel safe that an unaccountable entity is gathering data on the movements and whereabouts of myself, my friends, and my neighbors. I feel even less safe knowing that this company can change their software and their practices without public review or comment. Um, corporations have too much information about us as it is, we have a right to privacy. Um, in light of the substantial risks outlined this evening and the gross breach of our privacy by this company, um, I urge the council to terminate this contract, eat the cost, and dismantle all of PL equipment in Troy. Thank you.

Thank you, Jane.

Uh, hi, my name is Jack. I live in downtown Troy. I am an OPI uh computer science student who has studied computer security. I am registered to vote in Troy and I would like to speak concerning the uh resolution to um uh have another two-year subscription with Flock. Some here are worried about the Flock cameras given that they work as intended, but I'm worried about when they don't. In the past, namely as announced in October in the National Institute sizing technology uh national vulnerability database, FL cameras had serious security vulnerabilities. One of these vulnerabilities, one of these vulnerabilities would have allowed a bad actor to take control of the device in as little as 30 seconds. With this control, they could insert, delete, or replace images and data. And in the world where AI images can be generated quite easily, that is a huge risk. This vulnerability was a result of bad software design and bad practices. The kind of thing that happens when you cut corners. Flux cameras have had other have also had other vulnerabilities that are so simple I mitigated them in my own software as a high schooler. What? While they have fixed a lot of the vulnerabilities, it is important to recognize that Flock put cameras into our community with these flaws. The uh reason that they were not evidence they were exploited was because a security researcher found the issue before criminals did. But that's just luck. And uh it flaws were easy to exploit. They did not take an expert to figure out how they work and how to exploit them. Uh, Flock also had issues in January where the there was unauthenticated access to the live video feeds. In all, I cannot be sure that their code is

secure now and that it will be secure for the next two years. All I know is that their past is riddled with severe mistakes. Please be incredibly cautious about trusting their technology. Regardless of whether you want cameras or not, Flock as a Flock's previous security vulnerabilities should make them ineligible for this contract. Thank you. Thank you, Jack.

Good evening, council members. My name is Brian Donnelly and I reside in Troy's fourth district. I'm here to implore you all to terminate this contract with Flock and pass legislation preventing other mass surveillance programs from violating our community members right to uh privacy and safety. To have a surveillance apparatus constantly logging everything and anything about you is a disturbing and looming presence over us whenever we go wherever we go. It is abhorrent to treat anyone as a potential criminal and with suspicion in our own city just so the police may potentially have an easier time doing their job down the line. We're the ones supposed to be protected, not the ones preemptively targeted. This sinister signing over of our Fourth Amendment rights to a private company's platform subject to waste, fraud, and abuse is something straight out of a dystopian science fiction story, and it's clear to see the mayor and her sick of fans have taken the side of big brother in this one. We ask the council to side with the people. Thank you.

Thank you, Brian.

Good evening. My name is Brian Pos Hernandez. I'm a resident of South Troy District 5. I'm a teacher and a member of Troy residents against flaw cameras. Uh the what we heard from the uh police chief and the mayor was very enlightening. Uh there was I'm sure council members noticed this, but they did acknowledge that they do participate in the that they did participate in the national lookup tool, but they paused it recently. So that means for basically six years that the flock uh Troy data was viewable by other cities and and in in states that may have anti-immigration, anti-trans legislation, regressive policies and it can be used for uh nefarious purposes. I really hope um all six of you uh vote on the resolution tonight and vote no. I understand the city's lawyer will defend the decision. Let's not make no decision due to a techn due to a technicality. Take a moral stance tonight. In your opening comments, a number of you mentioned that you do support ALPR technology in general. Um, and that I don't necessarily have that view, but at least do us a favor and end the city's relationship with Flock, a severely flawed company. if we we can debate the merits of uh uh ALPR another day, but at least we can come to agreement that we should not have a contract with flock. Um I'll say another me I'll mention another thing about uh just safety in general. We're talking a lot about techn uh crime and technology. I do want to mention a few statistics. There's no research proving that ALPRs can reduce crime. I know we have anecdotal evidence tonight by the police chief, but if you look at academic research nationwide, supporting studies claiming that they do are often produced by the same companies selling

ALPRs and the police agencies buying them. The police chief, he would never say that uh the flock expenses were was a failure because that meant that we spent our money poorly. He would never acknowledge that. According to a report entitled ALPR, a study in failure, quote, there is not even a moderate degree of correlation between ALPRs and stolen vehicle recover. Are you okay? You're good. Um, and council members, let's be honest. Real safety does not come from tracking everyone. Real safety comes from strong communities. Real safety comes from young people having opportunities. Real safety comes from neighbors knowing each other. That comes from trust, not surveillance. So instead of spending $156,000 on these cameras and doing business with a multi-billion dollar company with numerous lawsuits, how about we use that money to create good jobs in Troy? That'll prevent crime. How about we use that money to create a youth mentorship program or buy Narcan to help save lives with those afflicted with substance abuse? Uh, and the last point I'll make is the serious concern about ICE. I I actually, you know, if if the Mntel administration wants to say we haven't shared the data with ICE, I will take her word for it for the sake of argument. But there's nothing stopping them from doing it in the future at all. There is there is no policy in the books that would stop uh Troy PD from sharing that data in the future. And I'm not going to take the word from a city official. I wanted it to be an actual law, an actual policy that they would never uh cooperate with ICE if they did request that data in the future. And given Montello's association with the Republican pro ICE party, I'm inclined to to be afraid of that. So, I'll close with this. Um, there has been a lot of information

about whether or not Flock the company has worked with ICE. What I do know based on my information is that fog cameras at their disposal is probably ISIS's great greatest wish. It is a fact that ICE has access ALPR data through local systems. It is a fact that tracking has been used in immigration investigations and in the past the gentleman from uh Flock who apparently didn't do much homework before tonight said that uh Flock does not currently cooperate with ICE. But in the past, the Fox Safety Company ran pilot programs with Customs and Border Protection and HSI. So why would our city want to do business with a company that has made a deal with the Trump administration and its racist, lawless immigration agenda? So guys, in closing, please, please, tonight end the flaw contract. Move, remove these cameras and stand with the people of Troy. Thank you. Thank you,

Brian. a little bit shorter. Good evening, President Steel and members of the council. My name is Ekko Goff. I'm a resident of the fifth district. My council person is Jonah Fabro. I am a longtime and proud resident of Troy. I grew up in Lancingberg. I went to the Sanctuary for Independent Media for their kids camp the year they first opened. I identify with Troy quite a bit and I've settled a lot of roots here as well as starting a business and starting large community efforts. I am here today to speak in strong opposition to the resolution authorizing the mayor to renew the city's contract with Flock Group and to ask for the termination of the contract. Flock is not a safety company or a camera company. It is a private surveillance platform that uses cameras for nationwide data collection. Troy PD has stated that their cameras are not using facial recognition or long-term data collection. That is what these cameras were built for. If Troy PD wanted security cameras or license plate reading devices, they would have simply purchased that. They're quite a bit cheaper. There is nothing stopping Troy PD from changing the policy without public input. The question is not what Troy PD uses it for today. It is what the platform is designed to enable and who controls the transition from one capability to the next. The public, as you are very well aware of, did not get proper due diligence on the installation or initiation of this previous contract. There is a huge lack of trust between the current administration, specifically the mayor, and the people. These cameras cement and further that divide. Creating a surveillance state in our city is not the solution to bridging this trust. The privately owned surveillance platform is a clear violation of multiple significant constitutional amendments. Firstly being the first

amendment right as the right to assemble electronic frontier uh electronic frontiers foundation obtained through foil requested data sets representing more than 12 million searches logged by more than 3,900 agencies between December of 2024 and October of 2025. These show that there were hundreds of searches specifically related to hands-off protests, no kings protests, and anti-ICE protests. This type of long-term surveillance is a blatant threat to our constitutional right to assemble. Secondly being the fourth amendment right which protects an individual's respon uh reasonable expectation of privacy. Flaw cameras do not simply snap a picture and compare a license plate to a database and then get rid of the data. They are specifically built to provide enormous searchable databases of the movements of each car that passes by without having the ability to opt out of your vehicle and location being tracked by this private company. The 2018 Supreme Court case Carpenter versus the United States stated that individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their long-term movements, including that of public spaces. They stated that long-term tracking, specifically what Flock is engaging in, is a violation of our Fourth Amendment rights. Troy builds an identity around patriotism and our connection to Uncle Sam. How ironic would it be for a city that preaches patriotism to continue using a surveillance system that blatantly violates our civil liberties. And unlike Mayor Carmela, I can cite my sources if anyone is interested to these articles or previous cases. For all of these reasons, I'm respectfully asking the Troy City Council for four things. An immediate termination of the flock contract. I frankly have no idea if we are able to do that. Everything is so convoluted. I

don't know whether I don't know what we're able to do, but if you have the power, let's terminate it. A ceasing of mass surveillance devices in Troy at the very least until proper research and regulation on these devices has taken place, including ALPRs, biometric devices, and AI surveillance. New legislation about transparent process that will prevent this type of backroom contract signing that appears to have taken place with Flock. We want to build trust, not erode it. And finally, a formal community engagement process for drafting any surveillance regulation. And I'd like to thank you all for your time. And I'd also like to thank everyone and my fellow community members for being here for so late, for making your voices heard. This is why I stay in Troy. This is why I love Troy, because we have a tight-knit community that really cares about where we live. I care about where I live so much that I haven't eaten in four hours. I'm starving. I miss my cats. I want to go home. But I want to keep the people who I call my neighbors, my friends, safe and protected. And these cameras do not do that. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Welcome.

Hi everyone. Um my name is Angela and I live in district 4. Um so I want to focus on something a little bit different. I want to focus on transparency and the claims of transparency from um the men from Mantel. Um you know and I think it's interesting. They mentioned a lot of other tools that are problematic surveillance. Um, and I'd like to see these put on the table for us to discuss. I would like us to discuss Project Sentinel and other political act policing activities. Put it on the table and bring it forward for conversation. That's for another night. Right now, we're talking about Flock, but it is bigger than Flock. Um, now that the mayor has finally released the city's contract, a document that should have been publicly available before it was ever even signed. I did not know. It is now clear. It started summer of 2021. I was active in discussions related to policing, technology, and policies during the years 2020 and 2021 while serving as a community rep on the executive order 203 legislative committee. And at no point during that time did this come up. We never saw it in the behind-the-scenes conversations in the committee or in public city council meetings. I submitted and I I want this on the record. You know, I submitted a foil request on May 13, 2023 and received a notice that shar they had nothing to share in June of 2023. Where was the contract or any relevant information there? Now we're coming to the Mantel administration. I have written Sue Steel many times about flock. She's like over it. Um but I've asked, you know, for more information about the cameras and the contract and most recently in October 2025, to which Chief DeWolf did acknowledge and provided just some brief answers to questions, but never the contract or nothing about the contract itself. Two residents both submitted foil requests independent of each other February 17th of this year and February 20th and both of them received a poorly copied procurement document dated April 2025th and signed by Chief Dwolf. I know that multiple city council members have requested information during the past

four months and no one has been handed the contract. I'm reiterating these details because I think it's super important that there was no transparency around this. Um, every request for information from a city council member in particular should have started with sharing the contract because that's the foundation of the discussion. That has sh been the thing that served to put them on even ground so they could ask questions that would be specific to Troy. It is completely unprofessional and raises red flags about the TPD, the mayor and the corporate council who needs to learn m more about foil. um that they didn't deem it necessary to share the contract and to share the contract language and the terms of those agreement. Um the denial of foil requests when there is public information that could and should be released is alarming. This in and of itself puts the city at risk for lawsuits when public access and transparency laws are being violated. The city did not provide a contract when directly asked when it was named multiple times between midFebruary and mid-March. And now suddenly at 4:56 PM on a Friday afternoon, the mayor publishes it in the agenda. Where was it? Um I would call all these efforts to not provide uh the proper information to the public and elected officials obstruction. Do we now have the contract now because you passed the 30-day window to continue revise or end the contract? That's like simply unacceptable. And I find it, you know, it's just not professional and respectful to the people here who were elected to do this work. Um, when I first asked about flock cameras in 2023, you know, there was little information about them in the public sphere. In the last year, we've witnessed the revelations that this is not secure technology. It's been used many ways that all have been mentioned by many others here. Um, but this brings it to the like the community is paying attention now because it's been in the media. people are being brought to wonder about and I really appreciate the

person who has AI you know uh uh you know uh he he's an expert in AI to help us understand why 2021 and 2024 and now are very different times this is a growing beast and we're in a in an area where it's like it's you know if you want to use a a term like the wild west right it's like this is the new frontier and they're exploring it and we are part of that exploration and I don't think it's fair to any of us here Um, so now that the community is asking questions that range from transparency to its impact, like how is the data used, who has access, uh, who has accessed it, the mayor starts throwing up slogans in place of actual engagement with the questions. I find it um a bit reprehensible that the the department with the largest slice of the city's financial budget um doesn't believe it should be answerable on matters of transparency, technology, and policy. It should not act on the word of Chief Wolf Dewolf alone or any of them on their word alone. the mayor and the TPD and I think this is important. The thing that they don't want to risk is accountability.

And so they've obscured simple documentation and in this case just going right back to the contract, avoiding the questions, bringing it to the body, having us ask questions and deem, you know, what what does it mean for us to be surveiled? How does this work in our city? Um, so we really need proper public conversation and debate. We need substantive policy regarding technology and surveillance. And we need a body that will hold the TPD accountable around this and many other things. You know, we have the PORB, the police oversight and review board. Where is it?

Where is it? Um, and the PORB has, you know, not had one very key thing and that is subpoena power. And so we need an oversight board that can ask these questions because that, you know, Mattela wanted to say this didn't happen under my administration. Well, why build on problematic policies and practices from a previous administration? This council, this council was elected, I think, to be a check and balance and to provide change on that. And so, I put it in your court. Yes, we shouldn't have flock, but it's bigger than that. It's bigger than just guard rails. It is substantive conversation around all sorts of surveillances that are, you know, impacting our lives. And this is from Flock to Project Sentinel to all of the other technology that they have access to that shapes and frames how criminality is seen, how people are seen, how communities are being treated. And I believe that you are smart people um who are very committed and I think that's why you're here. And so I really hope um that we can get past this and and and understand and make make space for this to be addressed in a very uh considered and substantive way. It is flock, but it is bigger than flock. Thank you.

Thank you, Angela.

Hello. Uh, good evening, council members, residents, um, and others. My name is Fox. I use they he pronouns. I'm a resident of Troy's second district. Um, I'm here today to speak in opposition to the resolution authorizing the mayor to renew the city's contract with Flock and asking for a full and immediate termination of the contract. Uh, as others have stated, if if possible, um, around this time last year, I was waiting for the 923 bus back from the 126th Street Hannerford, which is the last remaining grocery store in Lancingburg. um when I noticed a a thin black pole with a small solar panel on it and the distinctive sleek rounded camera of an actualized dystopian surveillance state. Of course, what I'm talking about is what we've been talking about all night, which is a flock surveillance camera. I had an awareness of flocks specifically because of outrage in Colorado um that people had surrounding this private company's surveillance contracts with police and other law enforcement. This was the first one that I had seen in the city that I love so much, but it was not the last. I have seen so many flock hammers throughout Troy and Albany, but especially in Troy around Huskix Street. Um, when you overlay the map from deflock.mme with a map of historic redlinining or a map of where abductions by ICE have occurred, it becomes shockingly transparent who is being surveiled the most. On top of cameras, on top of the cameras strategically placed within working-class, lower inome communities, primarily made up of non-homeowners, what we see in Troy are cameras at every bridge and major road into or out of the city. So, it's truly everyone who visits and lives within the city of Troy that is being subjected to this insecure surveillance. In the modern day and age of cameras being everywhere, some folks may think nothing of these cameras. Some may even think that they will help keep people safe. However, the flaw cameras are notoriously easy to hack, as so many people before me have said. And on top of that, a judge in Washington did determine that any and all images taken by flot cameras are not exempt from

public from disclosure in a public in public records requests, meaning that they are foilable as uh the question was avoided earlier. Um because they are cameras that are paid for by tax dollars. Um they are paid paid for by taxpayers. Um, why are our tax dollars, $156,000 per two-year contract here in Troy, being spent on surveillance that is not only not keeping anyone safe, but putting specific members of our community at extreme risk. Whether it's stalkers, state-to-state surveillance looking to prosecute people seeking abortion, or if it's collaboration with ICE, Flock actively makes our city unsafe for all of us. We need support, not surveillance. We need housing, warming hubs, greater food assistance, mental health support, substance abuse support, not surveillance. We need to be building up our communities, not building up privatelyowned, AI analyzed digital fingerprints of us. We keep us safe. We keep our communities safe. Flock does not. Thank you all for your time.

Thank you, folks.

Hello, my name is Wendy Gilman. I live in District 3. Um, I have been a resident of Troy for 36 years. We came because my husband went to grad school and we never left and we love Troy. I did not prepare remarks tonight because I had already sent a letter with my concerns to the council, but hearing everyone speak, I did want to share a few things. Coming as far down the list as I am, a lot of the things I wanted to say have already been talked about. Um, I do want to make it clear though that I believe the police needs the correct tools to do their job to keep us safe. I also believe as I think it was Brian said, community makes us safe. And I also believe that I that flock is not the way we want to go. I was going to read the quote about um flock data being used about protesters and somebody already read it, but there's a different one that's just as damning. The November analysis revealed deeply troubling patterns. More than 80 law enforcement agencies use language perpetuating harmful stereotypes against Romani people when searching the nationwide flock safety network. If they can look for them, you know, they can look for anybody. I think we should not renew this contract, whatever steps the council has available to them. And I also agree that if we are going to be undergoing the tools that the police needs, we should have a committee made of um police staff council and citizens to really do a thoughtful analysis of what we need and how we're going to implement it. So, thank you very much.

Thank you, Wendy. Hi. Sorry. Um, I didn't realize that this um, when I spoke two weeks ago, I didn't realize how passionately people felt about this and it really has blown my mind how passionate and thoughtful and caring all of these remarks have been this evening. Um, I'm sorry. Can you just Oh, sorry. I'm Dearra and I am in district 4 and I live by a flock camera in South Central Troy. Um,

so I just wanted to say that it's really beautiful to see this community and hear everything they say before I forget that. Um, a lot of the stuff that I wanted to ask um, actually the city council asked which I'm really grateful for. Thank you for your comprehensive and thoughtful questions. Um, one thing I did want to focus on is actually TPD policy a little bit. Um, I have no doubt that Troy police finds this technology to be a valuable tool for them. Their job description is to solve crimes, not to question whether the tools they use are an overstep in the privacy and autonomy of the communities they serve. But that's why we have laws. Laws that require probable cause and laws that require warrants before you track somebody. policies that are supposed to prevent misuse um and provide protocol or were supposed to. So, when a community member reached out to their council person in 2023 about these flock cameras, at the time, Deputy Chief Barker um told the council person, and I quote, "We do not have a policy specific to Flock. Rather, all of our technological systems are covered by a variety of policies as the same concerns exist for each. the confidentiality of the information being accessed, any dissemination of that information, the purpose of inquiry, and the auditing of inquiries is covered by our general orders for all of our investigative investigative and recordsbased systems. So, I foiled these policies and received the full TPD manual back. And if you look specifically on page 336 in regards to ALPRs, and I am happy to email that to you, um, and it's in my hand, um, number 424.4 for operations. An ALPR may be used in conjunction with routine patrol operation or criminal investigation. Reasonable suspicion or probable cause is not required before using an ALPR. And we already know this because these flock cameras are taking pictures of all of our license plates without probable cause. So, I thought, okay, well, at least there must be some

policy that requires at least reasonable suspicion or probable cause, if not a warrant, for an outside agent or a different law enforcement body to review ALPR data. Um, and there's nothing about that in here. There are instructions for how another agency may request data, including the intended purpose of obtaining the information, but there is no policy outlining what is considered a grantable request. It's totally up to the person who is reviewing the request. Um, fast forward to 2026. Chief DeWolf told my city council person Norine a few months ago that TPD does not share any of its data with ICE and nor does the state police when information is requested by other law enforcement agencies. The requests must be case specific and the requests must be approved by TPD's command level supervisors. So, I haven't found evidence of that requirement in TPD policy and please let me know if I'm missing something. Um, and in fact, going back to that same 2023 um, inquiry from our community member Steve Barker did tell the council member, "As for sharing, we share nearly every," sorry, and I quote, "As for sharing, we share nearly every record system we have with state partners at the capital region crime analysis center and the New York State Intelligence Center. And in turn, that law enforcement information is shared nation statewide with federal partners and I imagined beyond." This was on June 5th, 2023. The police can access ALPR data without a warrant or probable cause. And police can share ALPR data without a warrant request or without a request of pro probable cause. And there's no policy around that. And that certainly does not feel like safety. It feels like an infringement and it feels like surveillance. And when they say that they've been using ALPRs for over 14 years in this city, that's 14 years of infringing on the rights of the people that you're surveilling. FBI director just yesterday, Cash Patel just yesterday admitted under oath that the FBI buys the location data of individuals from private companies to track them without warrants. It's a way

to get around needing warrants. Somebody already mentioned Carpenter v. Government from 2018. It's a very sneaky workaround from the fourth amendment. Um, and the court established a right to privacy in the whole of an individual's movements in 2018 when they ruled that the government's acquisition of cell site location information requires a warrant. It is correct that your phone is surveillance as the mayor says. However, we're consenting to that surveillance. We've made a choice by buying the phone and implementing internet on it and all of the apps that we have. Right. The ALPR is not consensual. We were not involved in any of the process to bring them to our city. And this goes back to my point that this technology is opaque and unguarded. And we do not have the knowledge and the protections in our laws and policies to implement this unguarded and unsupervised technology. And we never have. Studies have shown that almost 10% of ALPR interpretations are inaccurate. A disproportionate number of false arrests due to incorrect ALPR data are black and brown people. In Oak Park, Illinois, 84% of drivers stopped in flock related incidents were black. despite black people making up only 19% of the population. I am deeply concerned for our community long term and TPD. And if you mean it, back yourselves. Don't just say you're doing something, write it down in policy. This all is all combined with the lack of total transparency around the implementation of this tech in our community, signing and renewing hundreds of thousands of dollars in contracts without city council knowledge or public input and the mayor's actions and the previous mayor's actions in the past few weeks which are deeply troubling. So my asks for the city council are to table the resolution or to vote no whichever you feel is appropriate in that manner. Just don't say yes. Um, and number two, a moratorium on mass sur, excuse me, on mass surveillance technologies in Troy until the council has time to research and prepare regulation for ALPRs, biometric surveillance, sound detection

devices, and AI powered police technology in Troy. Three, a transparent and comprehensive study of the impact of Troy's block ALPR technology, including a full audit of who has accessed TPD's ALPR ALPR data. TPD says they haven't shared with federal agencies. We learned tonight that they were a part of the nationwide database. Let's learn more. We need to know. And finally, a formal community engagement process for drafting any surveillance regulation. One that includes residents, experts in technology, and civil liberties advocates as actual co-authors of the legislation, not just commenters on a draft the city council has already written. Thank you for taking our concerns seriously.

Thank you, Dudra. Hello council members. My name is Damaris. I am a resident of district 6 with uh council member uh Greg Campbell Cohen. Um this is actually my first time speaking to the council member in many years because I had become extremely cynical that nothing I said to this council would matter and actually the decisions that this council made were just made in back rooms. And so I have been led to believe that this specific council is different. Right. I think we we're all here four and a half hours into this meeting because we believe that y'all are different, that y'all actually care about what we have to say to you, right? That you're actually accountable to us. And so I'm here to add my voice to the chorus of my fellow community members who are asking you to terminate this uh contract with flock to really engage the public in understanding and to terminate for now any u mass surveillance. But I what I also really want to say because as we know right data is safe until it's not. And by the time the chief is up here explaining, oh well now we've seen in the audit that our this data has been accessed by other people, it's already going to be too late. But even more than that, I really wanted to bring back the question that Councilwoman Norin asked, which was if the city council could review the audits, right, of how this surveillance is used. And I feel like your um question was really like brushed off and deflected by the deputy mayor. But to me that was a central question because when I was listening to all of the information um being said earlier, what I kept thinking was, do these flot cameras record the license plates after Troy police officers rip young black and brown kids off of their bikes and assault them in the streets? Does it record the information about these officers when they're assaulting people with disabilities in the streets? When on 8th Street last two years ago, a man with MS was assaulted. After he deescalated a conflict in the neighborhood after he was working to keep the neighborhood safe, he was then assaulted by police officers. What is

the reason code that they put into their system when the crime in question is one that is perpetrated by the police? What who is holding Troy police accountable in this city? We heard earlier about the murder of Eden Devon and by Troy police officer. We are approaching the 10th anniversary of that. matter

matter. And one thing that was very clear is that in that when that happened, the not only the city mayor, the city council, the DA, there was a cover up to to prevent the public from finding out about what happened to that. The Troy City Council had the power to subpoena the report that the Troy Police Department did on that murder. And who was the president of the city council? It wasn't the first time that Mayor Matello has buried an important report. Please, let's let's stay on task.

My point is that we need y'all to work with us to hold this city's police accountable, to the city administration accountable, and to really remind you that you have power, right? You you maybe the contract says it's too late. It's never too late. You have power to affect change. You have power to show that this council is cannot just be pushed and bullied aside by Montello. That you can fight for this. you can fight for what the public what your constituents are asking for and that we believe in you. So, please don't abuse or um misuse our trust. Thank you. Thank you.

Hey everyone, my name is Chris. I live in Albany, but I work right here in Troy. And I'm here to echo the sentiments of my fellow community members to say that the city council needs to reject this resolution and not uh continue this relationship with this draconian surveillance system. Right? We know how we can keep our people safe, right? It's with funding for housing, funding for health care, funding for jobs and education, not for unaccountable, monstrous technology that will be used to put our neighbors in cages. Once again, like every technology that is used by the police, they use it for the goal that they have, which is to put more of our brothers and sisters into cages, right? This is what they do time and time again. We don't need more unaccountable systems. There is this idea that it is just flock. No matter what camera system you put up, they will use it for the same purpose. They will fulfill the goal of putting our brothers and sisters in cages. Right? We cannot allow this to just be some narrow focus about flock. Obviously, democracy demands that you do not continue this contract with Flock. But don't just brand it differently and enter into a new contract with another company that's going to do the exact same thing when the pressure dies down. Right? We need to stand up against the surveillance state if you want to provide an opposition force against draconian policies. I know you guys all ran against Trump, right? Providing more systems of control to the the rich and the people that work for them is not the way forward and that's not what people voted for you to do. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Emma Delipia. I live uh up on Uclidavv. I'm in uh Jonah Favro's uh district and thank you for responding to my emails about this and I really appreciate the entire city council uh researching into this. You all asked great questions when they were here up presenting. Um I am opposed to the flock camera system and I hope that you do not continue the contract. Um some reasons for this are the flock camera system can be used to track marginalized communities. They're actually very great at finding where people have come from and where they are going to. They can use this data to figure out who has gone to a protest, who has gone to maybe an LGBTQ support center, who has gone to a specific therapist. They can use this to track firearm owners, who has gone to gun stores or shooting ranges, and then where do they live? They can use this to compile databases based on any metric they so choose. And they share this data across the nation. Now, I know the police have said they've paused this, but I didn't see anything in the contract that said Flock has to uh grant that pause or Flock has to respect it. It says that Flock can use the data at their sole discretion. Um, so I'm not sure we should trust Flock's word on this, especially because Flock's cameras are very cheap because we are part of the product. They are selling our data across the nation. They're selling it to outside entities. And I know um they said that they haven't worked with the federal government, which isn't true because they did give Border Patrol provisional access in 2025, which they used to track people at the No Kings protests, which is weird because they're border patrol. Um they've also used this, as people have pointed out, to track women seeking health care, uh who live in states with oppressive governments coming to more free states like New York. Um, and we shouldn't be part of the society that rats on them to their oppressive government so that they can hold them accountable.

I also was confused by some things that came up uh during the meeting, such as other municipalities reaching out to us about their ability to spy on Troy residents using our camera systems. It seemed weird that they didn't want us to continue our contract because that implies that they are accessing our data. They are figuring out who lives in Troy, who comes and goes. And it might they might only be using that data for active uh investigations, but uh to quote the old axiom, who watches the watchers? And you brought up a very good point about audits in this, which the deputy mayor seemed very confused by the idea of audits, but how do we know that their searches are legitimate? Um, the police can tell us that they're searching completely legitimately, and that might be true, but there may be bad actors among them who are not, and we'll never know if there's no civilian oversight. Also, they mentioned that these fluff cameras are specifically license plate readers. And then they gave an example of tracking down a car by its description, a black sedan, uh, which I'd like to point out is not a license plate. That means that the cameras are, we know that they're not license plate readers. They're high resolution cameras and there are other entities like Clear View AI that people can purchase and then feed their flock data into that and get facial recognition out of it. This is high resolution imagery that can be used for other purposes besides just getting license plate readers. If they were specifically license plate readers that could only detect numbers, I doubt this many people would be outraged. But they're not, and we know that they're not. Um, it is a surveillance state uh that is unacceptable and I implore you to vote against it. Thank you. Okay. Hello there. I'm Sam. I've lived in the Troy area for the past two years. I came up from Texas and before that I lived in

Louisiana. And I have a background in computer science. I went to school for it. I graduated in it. I doc I document software for a living and the lack of transparency and just the lack of transparency that I have seen in this room tonight would have gotten anybody else in my position straight up fired. There's you come to the table with with vague quotes, no actual metrics, five or six cases maybe where flock was kind of involved, but worded so vaguely as to well I mean maybe the camera was just on and it was just present. Doesn't mean it was always involved. There's no metric for effectiveness and there's there needs to be more better accountability. There needs to be better accountability in the police department whenever this techn whenever such technologies are used. And that being said, there's always an alternative to whatever program is being touted as the best and the only thing. Flock is not the only program out there. is not the only software solution that can help you investigate and and track down and keep the community safe. There are so many other alternatives. You can even you can you could compile them yourself. Honestly, compile them yourself, put in a little more work and not use this digital crutch. So, please do better. Please do better. Please don't be like where I came from. Actually, do better. and keep things open and transparent because I mean people wouldn't stick around if if you weren't. So that's it.

Thank you.

Hello. We're almost there. I promise. Uh President Steel, members of the council, my name is Noah. Um I am I think I live in downtown Troy. I am newish Detroit. I come from New York City, one of the most surveiled places on the earth. Um, a place that has given up on this fight because the NYPD is the enemy, quite frankly. Um, I am here to speak in opposition to the resolution authorizing the mayor to renew the city's contract with the lock group and to ask for the termination of the contract. What I would like to focus on is not the facts that everyone has so diligently spoken about, but the role that you are in. Um, in regards to being part of Flock's national surveillance platform, in a previous job I had as a software engineer, I was asked to be part of building a camera camera surveillance system that would be watching millions of my neighbors in New York City. I did not want to do this, but I was going to lose my job if I didn't, and I need health insurance. I have type 1 diabetes, and I am locked into a position because of capitalism. um surveillance systems uh surveillance systems and the degradation of our privacy rights is not inevitable. It doesn't just happen. They're built by people would have been me and in this moment it is Troy and it could be you by saying yes to this. You would be part of building flock system not just putting a camera in Troy. I quit that job because I would not build that system. It is scary to say no to these systems. I understand that people put pressure. They talk about crime. They talk about safety. They talk about all of these things. But you know what's even scarier? Building these systems and being a part of them. You are actively surveilling people. It is not an abstraction. When you sign, if you don't vote no on this, then your name says I condone this. Even if it's several steps

removed, you are a part of this. And last, it's $150,000. If we can't terminate the contracts, take the cameras down, and find the 200k somewhere between the golf course, the restaurant, and the pro shop. I'm sure there's an extra $200,000 to be found. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Noah. President Steel and members of the council. My name is Nate. I'm a resident of the 9inth district. I'm a renter and proud member of this community and I'm here today to speak to oppose the resolution authorizing the mayor to renew the city's contract with Flock and to ask for termination of the contract. While we enjoyed the regular street fairs, public parks, and the fruits of our diverse community, our local government contracted with a private surveillance company to observe, record, and catalog our travels to and from our homes. Place at intersections that lead in and out of Troy. Flock cameras have watched us and flot cameras have watched you. I want to be very clear that there is an important difference between the statements made by municipalities, police departments, the manufacturer of flock cameras, and the actual capabilities of the technology. Flock is an we know what it is. It's an ALPR, automated license plate reader. To call these cameras simply automatic license plate readers would be the same as calling iPhones simply calculators. Automatic license plate reading is just one of its functions. In addition to the identification on license plate, flock cameras record bumper stickers and dents like facial recognition software. With the addition of timestamps and camera locations funneled through embedded AI software, flat cameras are used to track our move movements in and out of the city.

I'm going to skip the whole thing about condors since they're not installed as far as I know, but the point I wanted to make is that from their height, you can still see a pedestrian's uh phone screen and read what is on it. Um, like any of the thousands of internet enabled systems and devices active in our community, ALPRS and AI enabled cameras are at risk of hacking, data breaches, and misuse by police. Security cameras and license plate scanning technology has been around for many years and can be a useful tool for police investigation and traffic studies. But these cameras and ALPRs developed by Flock and similar manufacturers are a different animal. Giving people AI may be all right on cleaning up an email or writing a few lines of code, but I don't want AI surveilling me and my fellow Trojans. to the to President Steel, members of the council, and fellow citizens. We must take this moment seriously and to set the precedent that Troy remains free of private surveillance, AI enabled camera technology, and automated license plate readers in perpetuity. Thank you.

Thank you, Nate. I'm too short for that. Um, hello council. I am My name is Heather. I live in district two. Um, I wasn't planning to speak tonight, so I apologize for any sort of rambling in my remarks. I will try to keep them as short as I can. I think I've been preceded by some two dozen people who've accurately You're going to need to speak into the

the dystopian hellscape that we are currently living in. So, I won't get into that. Um, I did want to note a couple of things that were discussed at this meeting that I found particularly disturbing. First is that it appears that no one on the council was privy to this contract. I'm not even sure that anyone in the police department was aware of the contract or looking at the contract. I was one of the people who foiled the contract a couple weeks ago. Did not receive the contract. I am eagerly awaiting the results of my appeal. Um, so there's that issue is that the government itself doesn't seem to know how money is obligated, which is frankly really sloppy procurement and quite embarrassing for you. Um, so I I'm appreciative of this opportunity to hear everyone speak and to see the listening so this can be prevented in the future. Um, the other problematic item is the lack of transparency, which is either intentional or again very sloppy. And so I just I won't get into all the good arguments that those who preceded me have made, but I did want to read a part of my favorite law, the freedom of information law. So the just in case anyone was confused which there did seem to be some confusion before. Um the legislative declaration of that says the legislature hereby finds that a free society is maintained when government is responsive and responsible to the public and when the public is aware of governmental actions. The more open a government is with its citizenry, the greater the understanding and participation of the public in government. As state and local government services increase and public problems become more sophisticated and complex and therefore harder to solve with the resultant increase in revenues and expenditures, it is incumbent upon the state and it localities to extend public accountability wherever and whenever feasible. The people's right to know the process of governmental decision-making and to review the documents and statistics leading to determinations is basic to our society. Access to such information should not be thwarted by shrouding it with a cloak of

secrecy or confidentiality. The legislature therefore declares that the government is the public's business and that the public individually and collectively and represented by a free press should have access to the records of government in accordance with the provisions of this article. Um, so that's public author's law 87 or 80, this one's 84. 87 has the rules of what may be released. That would be everything unless it falls into an exception. So when there were questions before about what could be foiled, what could be accessed, I would argue quite a bit, which is both good for government accountability and bad for people whose license plates are read by these readers. Um, so I would implore you to not renew the contract. You terminate the contract. I like the the line about if you have to pay, find the 150 rand somewhere else, but I would argue that I think I think you could do better and get out of it and be done. Thank you.

Thank you, Heather. Hello, President Steel. Members of the council, good evening. My name is Tyler. I'm an RPI graduate. I'm a local freelance artist and as of this year, I will have been living in downtown Troy for 10 years. In those in those 10 years, I have seen the city go through a lot of genuine positive change. When I first came here in 2016, I didn't think much of the city and that and over time that has changed so so much. We have seen so many amazing opportunities in the local arts, in local businesses. I've seen this place grow beyond what I had ever imagined possible. and $156,000 would be a lot of money to keep that pace going. Uh I see no reason why we should slow that down. While there are plans to keep it going in some ways, if I were in your position this evening and I found out that uh the mayor, your leader, essentially took that money and renewed it without even telling you into a AI surveillance system without even acknowledging what this money could do for you. It's just got put into the contract, auto renewed. I would be I would feel disrespected. I would feel insulted and I would want that money put somewhere else. I am not in your position. Perhaps you feel different. This that money whether we can keep whether we can get it back or not could have been used for so many amazing

things. Continuing to push for local arts, continuing to push for new local businesses, new infrastructure, construction, housing, mental health, substance abuse relief, like as public events that can bring people into Troy rather than pushing them away. I have I have had the opportunity to be a part of managing such events and they were a joy that everybody I have talked to enjoyed them. They brought in tourism. They brought in revenue for the city. And this 156 again, thousand dollars could could be used to do so much more. It could be used to pardon me. I just I think that money is better well spent on something that we actually want and something that we asked for. Nobody asked for flock and its surveillance because surveillance puts everyone at risk. Everyone. Maybe not right now, but if we keep if we keep the surveillance going the way it's been going, it will be a threat to everyone. And we need to stop. This can be the first step in stopping that. Tonight, the rest of the capital region will be using tonight as an example of how they want to proceed with their flock contracts. We can set an amazing example for the rest of the capital region if we vote no, decline the contract, rip these cameras out, and put our time and money and effort into something that we all the my community, this community really, really wants, something that we actually asked for. This is my first time coming to a city council meeting and this was an amazing opportunity to see how many people really genuinely care. It's given me so much hope. These people have given me so much hope. Now it's your turn. Thank you

for your time. Thank you, Tyler.

Hello. My name is Jordan Foss Bush. I'm from District 3. Uh I moved away for a bit. I went to RBI. I moved away and I came back because I love Troy. I love the people here and I'm hoping to live here for a long, a very long time. So, uh, I'm really excited to get a chance to speak to you all. Thank you all for listening to us. I'd like to thank the, uh, police chief, all the police officers who are here. I'm sure you're standing there for ages and I'm sure you're really tired. Sorry, I'll be quick. And thanks to the administration if they're still listening. I don't know if they're um, that's awesome and I really appreciate that. Um, because I'd like to think that everyone here is coming to the table with genuine intentions, right? We all want uh, what's best for Troy in our own hearts. We all want to make Troy a better place. Um, and I think, you know, just taking people at their word, right? It sounds like uh the mayor is asking for a decision uh on whether or not to accept this uh this contract or not. I would really prefer that you choose to deny it and not accept it. And I would prefer uh that you listen to the many people here with greater width than I have as to the many reasons why um you should do so. Um, I would like to bring a couple of things that I was uh thinking about and took notes on when I was learning about what was happening here. Um, one of the things that I really appreciated about the police officers, uh, the Troy Police Department was that they paused the national lookup. That's fantastic. I'm really uh, glad to hear that. Um, it does I don't know the process that they went through to do so. It sounded a little bit like they unilaterally decided to change their uh their settings or whatever it is which is fantastic in my particular case because I agree with this decision but does feel like then it's very possible for them to change it back at at any time should uh some other members start leave the department should their opinions change should outside pressure come in right and sound like this is a fantastic place for a law and for sort of enforcing actual uh uh creating actual policy um but I you know I I lived here in Troy I came back here in Troy I'm a software developer I work in medical technology Um, so I'm used to sort of having to deal with like HIPPA, right? Ensuring patients privacy. Um, so I can

understand the many different steps that we have to do as our software development company to ensure privacy of the data that we use and manipulate. Um, and so I can understand there are many different ways in which data can slip out even if everyone here is is behaving with best intentions. Um, because we all here believe and are pushing for what's best for Troy. Flock has shareholders, has people who it's beholden to who are outside of Troy who do not have our best intents and heart. Um, and I think that that's one of the many reasons why it would be best for Troy and for the future of Troy if we were to say no to this contract. And you know, I pay taxes, but I still prefer to we pay the we pay the whatever cancellation is necessary um to avoid going through this contract. But thank you all for your time. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Jordan. Good evening, council members. My name is Frankie and I'm a resident of Troy. I've also been a victim of aggravated harassment and stalking. Because of that situation, I'm currently in an address confidentiality program and I spend a lot of my time and energy making sure that my physical location is kept private. Learning that an easily breached general surveillance system is being operated in Troy has my attention. This is no small issue for me. It's potentially a matter of life and death if my location ends up in the wrong hands. It's chilling. It's terrifying. In thinking about what I could add to the conversation about the flock cameras, this is what I find most relevant. When my stalker was being pursued by police, the perpetrator was ultimately apprehended by tracking their vehicle. But what's important to note is that the tracking was part of a speci specific police investigation and it was done only after obtaining judicial approval to track that one particular car. What that tells me is that a law enforcement and legal process already exists to investigate, solve, and prosecute crimes. It tells me that there is no legitimate need to conduct general surveillance of the public in order to accomplish those goals. Given that, I respectfully ask that you discontinue the use of these systems. Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, hello, President Steel, City Council. My name is Lee. I'm a woman who's lived in East Greenbush, but I love Troy. I went to Hudson Valley. I have friends here. What does Troy represent? Solidarity, community, acceptance. What will the flat cameras do for Troy? Surveillance, division, and fear. Is this what Troy stands for? No. People of color, immigrants, protesters, and the disabled. These are the first people who will be kidnapped, imprisoned, and raped without due process or a warrant. There is no accountability, not from the mayor, but from you, the city council. You guys asked great questions, and you did your research, and I'm so proud of all of you. I love Troy. I love the people, the culture, the acceptance. The mayor is lying to us, to you, and to everyone. We will not put more people in prison without due process or accountability. This is not 1984. Thank you. Have a good night.

Thank you. Hello. Hi. My name is uh Greg Lions. I live in downtown Square. Uh longtime listener, first- time caller. So, I would just like to say uh reject flock, right? Reject it all out. And it's not going to be easy for any of you. I'm here for you. Thank you. Hi, I'm sorry. I'm Anastasia. I live in District 1. Um, it it really pleased my heart when you guys first started out and you were asking all the questions and I mean even going back to the park and the improvements and working our way up to flock. I I really thought it was awesome because it showed that you were paying attention, that you are looking through things and that you were, you know, looking at the fine print and trying to make sure that things are in order. And I really appreciate that and I think everyone here does as well. Yes, I would love to see you guys work to terminate the contract for flock. Um the information provided is vague, inconclusive. The only real information that comes out is that the cars to the residents of Troy will be watched. This is the dissemination of that

information. We we're told that it stays here within locally. But if something happens in Coah, best believe Cahos police are going to reach out to our police to see if that car came riding through here. And they're going to share that information. And that's not always to say it's necessarily a bad thing at every time, but when the main I'mma put it this way, if there are cameras out here on every other block that are sending people tickets every day, going through the stop sign, driving a little too fast, you know, whatever it is that people are doing with their cars, people are getting tickets. And that's not just in Detroit, it's all over the place. If those cameras are doing that great a job that it can catch your car in a 30 mph zone and you're doing 35 or 40 and it can catch your car, your plate, and even a little shadow probably of the person. Why do we need flock? We already have something that that's doing these things. All right. Um it was said that this contract has never come before in the previous years has never came before the council. That's true. However, two wrongs don't make a right. And throwing down the sword of past councils and trying to fall on that sword says a lot and it doesn't say anything good. It says that you are willing to throw someone else up under the bus when things go wrong. So if it comes down later on that we find out that this flock company who maintains cooperative purchase agreements

and state contracts that people can purchase police data from state to state if they so choose. and we find out later on that this is what is happening. Who are you going to throw up under that bus? I mean, it's just simply we want the best for the people that live in this city. People live in this city for a reason. They love this city with all its flaws and because there's a lot of great things about here. I'm a transplant, but I'm a transplant of over 20 years, right? and I appreciate being here. Some things that I just happen to look up. Um right now there is a litigation going over flock in the state of California and the current li the current legislation is because flock provided illegal data to outofstate shares. This was filed on February 26, 2026. We're talking a few weeks ago. This isn't active. This is not something that's, you know, it happened when they first came out. So, you know, we were doing whatever. This company has a reputation for selling data, sharing data, but outside of the contract boundaries that are set by each county, city or state. This like someone said earlier, if this was any other company, they would not qualify to be in the contract to start with. But because they are, it's time to now that you started to look back and start to peel off those layers to look

and say maybe this isn't the best thing for our c our particular county. Maybe it's not what's going to keep our people safe like we think it's going to. We want proof that it works. This is what their second going on their third contract and we have yet to have any there's no statistics, no data that said that this is actually working. Really think about that. But we're giving them money, hardearned taxpayer money. So I say keep looking for the data, keep searching for those answers. And if they're not forthcoming and they're not conducive to the city of Troy and its residents, then take the contract, tear it up, and if we have to say we took a loss, heck, it's still less than the taxes we're going to pay for the new park.

Thank you, Anderson.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, my name is Noah. I'm uh I live in downtown Troy. I'm probably the least prepared person here, but I'm just gonna say a few things just everyone said everything I want to say. I endorse basically everything they said. Um oh, in terms of carrots and sticks, I figured I'd give it a few carrots just because I endorse all the sticks, but here's a few carrots. Um I guess shout out shout out to some of the administration for being here a little bit. Um, shout out to them for actually like I I do think her point about the previous mayor not proposing this as council is a good point. Um, also echo the points that people also said about you know little too little too late but it's still good. Um, something the last speaker, sorry I forgot their name. Um, said Anastasia said about um, uh, not having about basically cameras that can do the same thing that Flock does. Um I heard I believe sorry the police chief not to put you on blast but he said something about we don't have those um people have mentioned alternatives to block. If if that's something that the police believe would be helpful but we just don't have it. I'd recommend that the city council look into that. Um another care I'd like to give out is to council member Struber. Um I really appreciate your experience and your tech knowledge um in this. I think you asked really really good questions and I really hope that you and the rest of the council put out any findings you get from this because I know we um the flock representative didn't give very good answers or said maybe they had answers or they're giving they're waiting for a technical representative to respond. I really hope really hope you publish those. Um anything you find any any data you can have. Um oh I guess obviously I didn't say I'm anti these flock cameras. Uh yeah, sorry. Sorry that you guys seem to be mostly in favor, but we're still sitting here talking at you guys. I

guess that's sort of the job you signed up for, but I'm just here. That's my That's my opinion. Okay, bye. Thank you, Noah.

Good evening, everyone. Stephen Maple, South Troy. Um couple of just very quick points. Um the first one is you know the enforcement of the contract of you know that we had a lot of assurances from from the the representative from Flock and oh it's in our contract it's in our contract it's in our contract. How would we have any idea that it's being violated? Is Flock going to tell us? Do we have our own separate cyber security experts that could figure that out? So there's just a structural problem with that these ideas of just giving assurances even in contracts even in legal document contracts. How is that enforced? Um I don't think we have a plan for that. Um also a note about the effectiveness uh the measures of effectiveness. It's not necessarily even about what if if some crimes have been uh solved by these by these cameras. It's actually over replacement. What is its what is its performance over replacement for as we've discussed numerous times here there's other technology. Is this outperforming that? Maybe it is maybe it isn't. But obviously what what we what was discussed many many times tonight was about balance about the balance between you know right privacy rights and enforcement. Um well there are these other options. We don't have the same worries with enforcement of the contract and people are saying this is not the right balance. So there's that. Um another two quick points. Um I think it's just interesting that we we have this moratorum uh for best that we are pri prioritizing you know people over profits for best. Um but we're not doing that for flock. Interesting. Um and then finally I think the the corporation council made it abundantly clear tonight the need for this council to have its own independent council. If that's not crystal clear I don't know what is. Thank you so much.

Sorry, I am short. Okay. My name is Silva Manard and I'm in the fourth district. Thank you Norine for representing me tonight and all of us. Um, thank you to each of you for being here for an incredibly long time and listening. I really appreciated all of your thoughts and questions for an extensive extensive deliberation. Um, wow. Wow. I'm sorry. Wow. Wow. Wow. I didn't I I didn't I'm sorry. I didn't catch it. Wow.

Can I say it again? Wow. Wow. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

Wow. Um, yeah, I had a I have a lot to say and I did send you an email. Probably you didn't get a chance to read it because it was around 5:00 p.m. tonight. Um, but it'll be there tomorrow. Don't read it tonight. You don't need to go to bed. Um, so I asked the the council to terminate or at the very least table this resolution for complete review. Uh, and that's not a vote against public safety at all. Among other things, it's a vote to verify that what the administration has said publicly about this contract and what this contract actually says is true um before authorizing a two-year $156,000 commitment and potential privacy and safety and security violations. So, there's four specific issues. Um, you may or may not have seen the Facebook post and the video that hosted the mayor and the deputy um, police chief yesterday on Facebook. There were a number of things I would like to share with our uh, city council reps regarding those statements that were made publicly. I do not know whether it was intentional or misguided, but you can see that statements included that the police department, Troy Police Department maintains full ownership of the data. While that technically is true, section 4.2 two of the flock contract page nine of 15 grants Flock a non-exclusive perpetual irrevocable worldwide royalty-free fully played license to use reproduce modify and distribute the agency data and non-end agency enduser

data as a part of the aggregated data as defined in section 4.4 for below section 2.5 states that flock retains the right to use that data for any purpose in its sole discretion. Now I am going to note that's the 2021 agreement. That whole contract was enclosed in our agendas for tonight. I was shocked that corporation council, the mayor, the deputy mayor, the police, they don't seem to be familiar with this contract. Flock doesn't seem to be familiar with this contract. What the heck is going on? So, give me a freaking break. Either they know it and they will not say it aloud and they're pulling a, you know, they're just saying I don't know because if they say something that's a lie, they'll get caught in it and they're not allowed to say the truth. So, Flock sent who was he? He was a um

a public affairs. He's been with the company for six months. Okay. They sent a public affairs guy because he can't answer technical questions. You sure as heck know that that was intentional. They did not want to answer technical questions tonight. And you guys came prepared. You came with those technical questions. They did not. They will not answer those questions unless it's probably under penalty of like a judge being compelled to answer them. They're currently under lawsuits. They are not going to come to city council without being compelled because they have to answer to their shareholders, not to us. So data ownership is a problem because you can say till the cows come home that we own the data. Well, the Tri Police Department owns the data. We're the taxpayers. It's our money. But the reality is Flock can do anything it wants with it. And the data is not being shared with any federal agencies, including ICE. Well, but that document that quote lists included features nationwide network access queryable by any participating agency. There were people that quoted this and okay, you go to uh let's see this page here. Flock OS features and descriptions. You can read it yourself. I won't go through it. Somebody else read the whole thing. taxpayer liability. Section 8.1 of the agreement is a broad liability disclaimer exempting flock from responsibility for data inaccuracy.

So that means we're on the hook for their ALPR screw up, for lack of a better term. And we don't know what those rates are. They could be as high as 10%. So they they mess up a they mess up a number, they mess up a letter, and somebody's getting pulled over, and they're getting a gun in their face, and their kids are on the floor on the ground. And somebody else is getting hauled off, and then they go, "Oops, we got the wrong plate. Sorry, it happened." And I want to say, and I think this is really important, we had one other person mention this, the Troy police has assaulted black teens and ripped them off their bikes. Cameras don't seem to be protecting them from that violence. So, we need independent corporation counsel. We need we need independent legal counsel separate from corporation council. Corporation council serves at the pleasure of the mayor. That's in the Troy city code. They have that corporation council has approved that resolution on the administration's behalf. Advising the city council with an independent legal opinion on a contract that the mayor's administration has negotiated or accidentally not negotiated is a conflict of interest. Asking corporation council to evaluate whether the administration act accurately represented this contract is asking the mayor's attorney to evaluate the mayor's conduct. Corporation council opinion whatever it is cannot be relied upon as independent.

The council should retain outside legal counsel to review the governing agreement before authorizing execution.

And the cost of that review is nothing relative to the 156,000 commitment and the liability the contract places on troy taxpayers. Every legal impact of a wrongful stop of an innocent resident lands on the city and its taxpayers, not on flock. Do you does the Troy PD, the mayor, corporation council? Do you understand the full scope of that exposure? We need municipality administration and police, data, technology, and privacy policy and oversight. We do not seem to have it. If city council cannot get a full audit, who can? Thank you, Silva.

Hi, my name is Louie and I live in district 4. Um, I want to thank all of you council people first for speaking so strongly tonight and clearly and asking just astute questions. Um, I came with no plan to speak. I was totally unprepared, but I am so moved by what I've heard here tonight. And and if we look around, there's not many people my age here. And I want to speak as an elder of the community. I've only lived here for two years and I moved here because my family was here and I didn't know what to expect. I'd visited Troy for 20 years, you know, but but I didn't know what to expect and I love Troy when I first moved in and started walking around town and going into the different businesses. I love Troy. And you know what? I feel safe here as a as an almost in what? Two days, three days, I will be 76. And I feel safe in Troy. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So, I feel safe here, but I don't feel safe here because of the cameras. I feel safe here because of the Trojans, you know. I feel safe because my neighbors are fabulous. and and I have council people who will speak out and speak truth and stand up for what is right. And Norine in particular, I loved I I so appreciated how you represented me tonight too. Um really really appreciate. But what really struck me tonight and the reason why I'm standing up here right now even though I'm practically asleep out here, if you look around, there's barely anybody my age here. if anybody

I don't know we got

there's a few gray hairs out here you know there's a few of us but look look at the young people who showed up tonight with so much energy and so much deep just the depth of the feeling here tonight about how much everybody loves Troy you know everybody here loves Troy and and has been willing to come up and speak out. And so I just want to ask you, I don't have any of the the background and the facts and all that stuff, but I don't need to. I just want to thank you all for listening to all these young people, and I'm saying anybody younger than me goes in that category. Um, there were so many brilliant statements here tonight. people who did research, people who have backgrounds in AI, in the sciences, who understand what really is going on with this. Thank you for listening to them and and I I really hope that you will vote vote your conscience because I have a feeling that that you're all in the same place and and um I wish you courage. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, council members. My name is Isaiah and I am from District 1. As a couple other people have said, uh, I too did not plan to speak. I wish to bear witness. And tonight is my very first impression of the council, of the administration, of the community. There is a love that I have for the people behind me. And I've been here one year. I have seen them come up here with facts, with emotions, with evidence. Like right now, I do want to cry cuz holy crap, I did not know this was here. I've only been here a year. I haven't been out much. And to know that the neighbors care this much about each other. Oh my gosh, it's beautiful. I stand at this podium today to ask you to not move forward with the contract. Like many other people have said, I I work in data analytics. I work with AI. I've seen the ways in which it is hackable. I've seen the ways in which it makes errors. I have seen the ways in which um for my own company updates get just get pushed through. I have no say in what feature gets pushed through. No one gets to ask us. I just new feature it comes straight through and we just have to accept that. And it makes me wonder especially today when we were discussing if we were to sign the contract what would happen if new features came through? What would happen? Do we get to know about them? Are they does the contract get rewritten? Um, another thing that I heard tonight that kind of upset me is I noticed that there was a lot of I don't knows. um as someone who works in like the corporate field, the fact that a public affairs person was here and was not able

to answer the questions and then I believe I heard you council member Stubert mention that they the technical team did send you something. So they knew they were fully aware what tonight was going to be and yet did not send the adequate individual to have a discussion with not only us, the council members and the population here. What does that say about a company who is reactive and not proactive in responding to their customers? And not only that, when it comes to the police force, I hear a lot of mistrust in this room, and I'm sure that there's a history that I maybe don't understand, right? And I mean, I'm sure it's throughout the United States as well. But if the police force would like to do the bare minimum and at least attempt to rectify whatever relationship they have with this community, they should start by finding an alternative to block. Step away from the AI, step away from the mass surveillance with these specific types of cameras. Find something different because something different does exist and flock hasn't been around all our lives. It's new. Therefore, there is something in the past alternatives that have to exist. It makes no sense that there are not. I don't want to be living in a city who down the line we sign this contract and then I hear about how our data has leaked. Why should we be reactive to that and not proactive to make sure that we're ensuring that that doesn't happen? Transparency from not just administration, from the police force, from you guys, but from Flock as a company, a company that we understand is for profit. They wish to expand their customer base. They want to expand the information they have. They want to keep engaging in new types of surveillance. I just read today in the past three days, I learned about this in the past two days. I learned about Raven being able to hear audio and

determine who a citizen is based on that audio. They advertise it uh for gunshots, but they're trying to determine where gunshots are in the city. I heard about and read about Free Form, the AI uh tool in which they're able to use a simple search function. Type it in and then it'll pull up a description based on attributes of an individual. Now, I'm not saying that these are what the current police force is using, right? But they do exist with this company and this company is very clearly expanding. Who is to say that this contract stops with just the license space technology and goes even further? I have a lot of hope a lot of hope with the people behind me and I would like to hope that even with you all I've asked such be amazing questions questions that I myself had keep it up research never believe the first thing you hear where's the primary source what does the company say what does it say cross information it's important especially in this day and age that we understand what we for assigning. I think that's all I have to say. Thank you.

Hello, AI Manard, District 4 Norin. I want to thank you guys for staying here so late and being very diligent in your research on block and its implications. I have a few questions. Who specifically does Troy share the data with? What agencies have they pre previously shared data with? And throughout the whole time they've been used, what power does Troy PD have over the data once it has been shared and is out of our hands? How can we be guaranteed outside agencies will follow our policies and verbal agreements with the data once they have their hands on it? How can do do we have contracts with these outside agencies to make sure they follow the rules and what can they do with our information? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Abby.

Hi. Um, I'm Fran I'm Francisu from South Troy. Um, and I had a whole thing written up and half of it went in the trash because everyone has already said all the points that I had to make. Um, but there is some parts of it that I still do want to read. Um, I also just want to say that I've been coming to city council meetings for a year and this has been chef's kiss. So, and definitely the longest meeting that I've been to. Um, okay. Because Flock originally offered a contract valued below the threshold, it was never brought before the city council. When it initially renewed, it was over the threshold and should have been brought to the council then, but it wasn't. Multiple mayors and multiple police chiefs have been able to review and approve the contract with Flock, but never the city council and never the citizens of Troy. And now it's finally going before the council. But because of a 30-day notice of non-renewal clause, it's too late. Like any other subscription service, the flock contract autorenews unless you opt out. and the mayor has conveniently brought this before the council after the date to opt out of it. Having been to almost all the council meetings in the past year, that does not surprise me and it doesn't sound like transparency to me despite her claims. I also want to emphasize that this is not a partisan issue. This is about state surveillance circumventing the fourth amendment of the constitution. There's a big lawsuit in Virginia among many around the country alleging that these cameras are unconstitutional and I agree with them. In the past, police would have to get a warrant to track people's movements the way this camera system does. They shouldn't be able to

break the law in the name of upholding the law. On Facebook right now, there are comments about the irony of appearing on camera to talk about surveillance, but it's about choice. I'm making the choice to be up here speaking, but if I want to make the choice not to be on a flot camera in my car, I can't leave the city. There have been Republicans online who made a lot of comments about this only targeting criminals or immigrants, not law-abiding citizens. The AI that powers this tech has no way of knowing whether you are or not. It just collects the data. There's a camera out of Troy's jurisdiction that's right by the shooting range in Green Island. Do you know who's more statistically likely to own firearms? Republicans. Why would the state want to know how many times and when a person has gone to the gun range? Why would they need to know that information about a person who is not doing anything wrong, who is exercising their Second Amendment rights? It's not just about everyone else that's being tracked. It's about them, too. The system collects information on everyone, not just targets of a police investigation, which is why I think it's unconstitutional. That is called mass surveillance, not public safety. There's no reason to vote for this and every reason to vote against it. By not voting in favor of it, you show that you understand the risks of this system and are against how deceptively it was installed in our city. I hope the city council works to terminate Troy's contract with Block completely. last um during his testimony up here um the deputy chief

said that they requested a new contract from Flock and only received it last week which to me means that Flock itself did not provide the contract in a reasonable window and I think that should be considered a violation. I am not a lawyer, but but that seems out of bounds. This should be put out to competitive bid. However, Axion, Flock's competitor, is also a terrible company who has proven contracts with ICE. We're against Flock now, but I'm not convinced this tech this is the right technology for Troy at all. If the only companies who create this tech are absolutely terrible, maybe the tech itself is bad. Crime has been going down in general everywhere since the pandemic. So, I'm not convinced that this technology is what made the difference. We don't need mass surveillance to ensure public safety. Thank you. Anyone else like to go? We're ready to go home. Okay, cool.

All right.

Hello. Uh, my name is Beex. Most people here might know me as Tuesday. Tuesday on a Thursday. Troy is full of surprises. Um, there's a few things. Well, I wrote this whole speech, right? I was really stressed about this actually. And now everyone has said everything so eloquently. So, well, I'm just going to stick to my main few points here. Um, first off, I want to point out, uh, despite what the Facebook comments say, I am not trying to defund Troy Police Department. I'm actually trying to get them $156,000 back in their budget. That's a lot of money. Um, it is a lot of money and I know there's concern in the community that if we terminate this contract then we're losing $156,000. But personally, I see it as 156,000 reasons that that administration is not getting voted back in. I know we've already provided you with a lot of uh Flock facts, so I'm just going to provide you with this one. Uh this comes straight from the Flock uh which one is it? From the Flock LPR camera product page. So, if you just open up the website, this is what's there. It says no plate, no problem. Capture more detail with vehicle fingerprint trademarked and flock perform and flock perform free form. Flock free form. There it is. Turn images into actionable evidence. No plate required. That is the license plate reader product page.

I think it's a little more than a license plate reader. Um, first off, I don't know if you've been keeping count of how many people spoke tonight. Um, actually, I want to speak on behalf of my roommate. He was not able to be here. He really wanted to. He was also going to say do not support uh or do not support flock terminate the contract. Um so just on record there would have been one more uh and that including me of course would bring us to a unanimous mind you 41 people of this incredible community coming out here listening to our administration talk about golf and whatever else for hours waiting for their chance to be heard. We spent hours being lectured by a mayor who won't sit in the same room as us and is on Facebook. Lectured about safety by someone who has on record a DUI. We were lectured about safety by Mayor Deputy who came in here himself on the stream in front of all of us with a recording and he said this is disgusting when he saw democracy in action. What does that say about Troy Deputy Chief?

Could Could we curtail the personal attacks, please?

I think this is relevant. I only have one more thing to say about Deputy Chief, which is that he didn't read the ad. He didn't read the contract, and he signed a six figure contract. What does that say? All right, moving on. Um, again, turnout, incredible. Uh, people want to give me credit for this. This was not me. Uh, I just went to my community and I said, "I need you. Your neighbors need you. this is the time to step up. And a lot of people told me not to get my hopes up about the turnout tonight. Actually, everyone told me not to get my hopes up about the turnup tonight. Even the people who are on my side. And I said, "No, I think I believe in my community. Actually, I think I stand by them." And I think that if I go to them and I say, "We need your help. We need to be united right now." I think they're going to show up. The headcount was over 150 people tonight. That's more than double the previous record estimation. I also just want to say that uh HG who spoke very passionately earlier actually took a lot of the points I was going to make because a lot of my concerns around flock do involve ICE. Um and I am going to you know again say that like removing the cameras, terminating the contract, that's a start to writing what was very clearly wrong. Um, but we also need to address that at least, from what I have found, at least 31 of our neighbors have at some point been kidnapped by ICE agents and detained in ICE centers. I don't know if they're all home, but you see how much this community cares. So, I really hope you're going to make sure they're all home because we do not deserve to have our community members

stolen from us when we show up like this. I had nine days. I did this. I start I got involved in local politics March 9th. It is March 19th. I was told don't get your hopes up about the turnout. Good cause had two years and we showed up in just over a week. That is incredible. This city is incredible and you should be proud to be sitting here as a council person and representative of Troy, New York because Troy, New York is incredible. Thank you, Beex. All right, so from here, we're going to write the wrongs. I hope we get our community members home, but we need to do more. We need to make sure this isn't going to happen. like others have mentioned, legislation uh legislation around the installment of surveillance needing uh explicit community uh endorsement. I would love to see legislation around ICE cooperation. I would really like to see in general just more legislation directly protecting this city that cares so much because we deserve it. I don't know if you're familiar with or v Trump or the recent change that was made on Friday, March 13th. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of changing a rule. And there's barely any reporting on this. I found this from one news outlet. I believe it was Pink News. Um, and to find more, I had to go read the actual ruling to find out about it. What this ruling says is that, you know, I'll let you read it yourself, but essentially it says that now being trans, presenting trans, however an agent wants to uh interpret that, is caused to question uh citizenship, which means ICE has been explicitly endorsed to profile trans and queer appearing people. not just trans and queer people,

but trans and queer appearing people. And that is an important distinction. And that is terrifying because 31 of our community members have been stolen after the uh Kavanaaugh move to profile people for their color. A lot of these people who showed up tonight look a little probably not cishat to me, including myself. Um, oh, also for Cindy Brown, concerned citizen. Yes, I did shower today. Thank you for making sure that I uh am taking care of myself while working so hard. That's very sweet of you. I really appreciate it. Thanks. You've you've used your time. So, could we please

All right. All right. All right. My last point. Fine. Okay.

When I'm inspired, I can do a lot, but when a community is inspired, we can do anything. It's okay to say no to Carmela and to Flock. And I really hope really hope that you stand by this community and vote unanimously to terminate the contract and that you terminate the contract, you remove the cameras and you write what was wrong. Thank you. Thank you. Be 11:40. So I'll make this quick. Um my name is Loose Marquez BBO and um I live up on Husk Street. I believe Kate is my representative and I hope to sit with you and have a long conversation even though we've known each other since 1993 and this is my first time seeing you at a community meeting. So I'm excited and hopeful to see something improve. Um just want to make two really quick um points. I'm not going to go over I think everybody's kind of told you this thing. I am against block. Um, but I want to talk and piggy back to one of the speakers who shared about their personal story as someone who's been stalked. Um, tonight we heard that this is being done on behalf of public safety, on behalf of crime victims. Not all crime victims are the same and not all crime victims want cameras as a way to surveillance the community. So in your heads as you're making this decision, if you're struggling between, but we can't let crime victims down, we got to do something about public safety know that that is not it. Also, I don't know about I'm going disagree with the last speaker. I don't want $156,000 to go to the police. I think I've been really clear over the years of my time being in Troy. I do want the

police to be defunded and I am a crime victim because that's that's not going to stop and end violence against women. It's not going to stop and end the gun shooting. But what we'll do is 150 60,000 committed to youth so we can get the skateboard park that we were told we were going to get underneath street so we can get a movie theater that for some reason Carmela when she was president and the city council said we don't want a theater. Our youth don't have anything to do. People need something to do. But I just wanted to say to you all, if you're struggling because you think you're going to let crime victims folks down, know that there are some of us that are hoping you say no tonight because we know that that was a camera is too late to stop the crime to begin with, right? And that's not going to do it. The other thing I want to say is um Mayor Carmela talked on behalf of the minority community. I don't consider myself part of minority community. I consider myself part of the majority global black community across the globe. However, she is pertaining to my community which I've married into Troy. My family, my kids are third generation from Greedy Real, South Carolina, which is the majority of black folks who live in Troy that are part of the black migration of the 1940s and 50. She does not get to talk about a community that she's not a part of. I am a part of the minority so-called community in Troy and I ask you to please vote no. Please vote no. I don't know where the NAACP is, but they're not here. And so, if they were for this, they would be here. They're not here. I don't know if they are or against, but she does not get to do that. And so, if those were

things in your head that you were struggling around, please vote no. And I thank you. Thank you. That concludes our public forum. Now we'll move on to the agenda of the finance committee. Ordinance five, ordinance authorizing the reconveyance of real property acquired by inrem foreclosure 368 first street council president steel council member Spay McLaren at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion.

Council member Stuber. Second. Second. Council member McKe. Discussion on the ordinance. All in favor? I. Opposed? Ordinance is adopted. 70. Ordinance six. Ordinance amending chapter 83 of the Troy City Code. Council President Steel at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Council member McLaren with a second by council member Favro. Discussion on the ordinance. All in favor?

I opposed. Ordinance six is adopted unanimously. 70. Resolutions. Resolution 31. Resolution authorizing the mayor to enter into an agreement with Striker Corporation for the purchase of patient handling equipment for the new PL custom medallion 170in modular ambulance. Council President Steel at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion. Well, I'll give that to Council Member Dorenzo with a second by Council Member McLaren. Discussion on the resolution. Council President, Council Member Stuber.

Totally forgot to ask this while everybody was here because of all of the other things going on. Uh, so Striker Medical was actually the victim of a cyber attack last week and which has halted business operations with no current estimated timeline for when they can resume orders. And per section 2.1 of the contract with Striker, the term doesn't seem to specify how long the vendor has to deliver the equipment. So, I very much hope that this is not an imminent need of the fire department because I don't know when the equipment will actually get to them. Uh, if this is what they want, I am I'm happy to move forward with it. I just wanted to put that on record because we don't know when it's going to come.

Thank you. Any other comments? All in favor? I I opposed. Resolution 31 is adopted 70. Resolution 32, resolution authorizing the mayor to enter into a memorand memorandum of agreement to share household hazardous waste collection and disposal services with the county of Renelier and the town of Bethlehem. Council President Steel at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member McKe. Second by Council Member McLaren. Discussion on the resolution.

All in favor? I opposed. Resolution 32 is adopted. 70. Resolution 33. Resolution proclaiming April 2026 as Autism Acceptance Month in the city of Troy. Council President Steel, Council Member Spay, McLaren, Council Member McKe at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member Favro with a second by Council Member Strobert. Discussion on the resolution. Council President,

Council Member McLaren. Um, I first of all am very proud to sponsor this as uh the parent of a child with autism. Um glad that last year we were able to change awareness to acceptance. Um glad that we are um using the theme celebrating differences which is the national theme this year. Um but I would offer an amendment or propose an amendment um as it's written. the uh the statistic in the third whereas paragraph um that was last year's figure of one in 36 children um is diagnosed each year. It's actually one in 31 which means it's becoming more prevalent.

Is that your complete amendment? Yes, we have an amendment on the floor. The Is there a second? Second. Amendment has been made by council member McLaren, seconded by council member Struber. Uh are we all clear on the amendment? All in favor? I opposed. The amendment is carried unanimously. Council member McKe.

Thank you, Council Member. Council President. Uh I too would like to um uh thank the council for uh proposing this resolution um for celebrating the differences of those with autism. Uh I too have a family member uh who is on the spectrum and I'd like to um produce the following uh amendments or amendments amendments

amendments um to replace uh paragraph two um whereas individuals on the autism spectrum may experience significant challenges in social cognition communication and the interpretation of social norms and consequences which can affect their judgment and decision making in ways that are not always visible or understood by others. And uh paragraph five I'd like to replace with whereas these neurological differences can render autistic individuals particularly vulnerable to manipulation, exploitation, and undue influence by others who do not act in their best interest. sometimes resulting in autistic individuals being drawn into situations involving unlawful conduct without any criminal intent, knowledge of wrongdoing, or awareness of the gravity of the circumstances. And a third paragraph to replace paragraph six. Whereas the city of Troy recognizes that true awareness of autism must extend beyond general public education to encompass the systems and institutions, including schools, social services, law enforcement, and the judiciary that most directly affect the lives of autistic individuals and their families.

We have an amendment on the floor. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by council member Favro. Uh discussion on the amendment. Council President, Council Member McLaren, could could I um ask that these be additions instead of replacing the language that's already there because I feel like um some of these I wouldn't want to see removed or replaced. Um Okay. I thought I had to replace. Oh, I didn't realize. All right. Yeah.

All right. So, rather than replacing um two, five, and six, whereas we will be adding the language uh to the resolution. Everyone's clear on that. Okay. All in favor? I opposed. We have a second amendment adopted 70. And now on the amended amended resolution. All in favor?

I opposed. Resolution 33 as amended has been approved unanimously. 70. Resolution 34. Resolution proclaiming April 22nd, 2026 as Earth Day in the city of Troy. Council President Steel at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member Dorenzo with a second by council member McKe discussion on the resolution. All in favor?

We had a we had a last minute entry from council member McLaren. I was just going to say that I encourage, you know, as the resolution does, everybody to get involved in something in your community. Um because it's a really special day and it's uh a great way to celebrate Troy. Thank you. Now, all in favor? I opposed.

Resolution 34 is adopted unanimously 70. Resolution 35, resolution authorizing the mayor to enter into a two-year subscription agreement with Flock Group in for the use of its license plate recognition camera platforms for law enforcement purposes. Council President Steel at the request of the administration. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member McKe. Second. Second. Council member McLaren. discussion on the resolution. Council President, Council Member Strober,

after listening to everybody in this room, those who are no longer in this room, uh, the administration, the police department, all of my fellow council members, I actually want to mirror one of Mayor Mantel's sentiments and say that there's just too many unknowns. That's all. Any other comments?

Council President, Council Member McLaren. Um I kind of building on what uh Council Member Struber said. Um there are too many unknowns, too many information, too much information that um we don't know yet, too much information that uh we're still awaiting from Flock themselves. Um some very important questions that she asked. Um I would like to make a motion to table the resolution uh pending the receipt of that information. As a sponsor of that, I would uh second that. Uh we have a motion on the floor that has been made and seconded to table. Um discussion on the motion.

All in favor? I I opposed. Resolution 35 is tabled. Resolution 36, resolution to welcome, designate, and confirm various appointments to the sustainability task force of the city of Troy. Council member Struber. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member Favro. Seconded by Council Member Campbell Cohen. Discussion on the resolution. Uh, council president. Council member Fe,

I'd just like to thank uh Council Member Struber and all of the residents who are part of this task force and who have stepped up and I know that they've been this is an unpaid position. This is something that they're doing by passion and wanting to improve the city. So, I just want to thank all of you for your work. Um, and I support this. Thank you. I would second that. All in favor? I opposed.

Resolution 36 is adopted unanimously. 70. Resolution 37, resolution to establish a climate smart community task force in the city of Troy and to appoint a climate smart community coordinator. Council member Struber. Is there a motion? Motion. Council member Campbell Cohen. Second. Seconded by Council Member McLaren. Discussion on the resolution. Council President. Council member McLaren,

I would like to ditto what uh Council Member Favro said about the last one. Um and thank everyone involved and you know obviously climate change is not going away. Um and we need to address it. So thank you, Council President.

Council member Campbell Cohen. The one thing that um I would like to add to this is that um as a lot of people know there have been a lot of commissions that have come and gone commissions and boards that have come and gone in the city of Troy. And um uh there are even several that overlap I think uh with what's before us today. But what's different about this is that they have actionable goals, a clear guideline, a clear framework to operate with and move the city forward, you know, a named representative of the mayor so that you're actually collaborating with the administration.

Um, and I I would like to urge us to use this as a model for functional sorts of structures of committees going forward. Um, because this seems to be the kind of thing that makes or breaks, you know, How many times has the environmental conservation committee come and gone? Um and you know I I have a lot of faith in these guys but um part of that is because climate smart communities has a coherent vision and uh path forward. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? All in favor?

I opposed. Resolution 37 is adopted unanimously. 70 That concludes that concludes our meeting at the stroke of midnight. Um would anyone have any other business that they want to bring forward? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion as I'm losing my voice. Motion. Motion made by council members Favro, seconded by council member Stuber. All in favor? Opposed? We are adjourned. Thank you everybody.