City Council - Regular Meeting

2027 proposed by digital order. Before we call the roll, Councilwoman Catherine Gill, can you please lead us in prayer and invitation? Madam Mayor. Yes, ma'am.

I would like to make a motion right here that we go into closed session pertaining to a personnel matter and conduct of elected officials.

We can't do that. It's not on the agenda for special call meetings.

It does have to be.

If it's not on the agenda, the attorney says we can never do it. I thought the statute said if every member was here, then it could be done. But either way, we'll have every member here understand Okay, well, they're here. Hey, be done today. It'll be done. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, yeah. Captain W. Please spread and quite believe this. Please. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm just thinking about that is punished. Father God, it's in the masterless name of Jesus the Christ that we say thank you, God, for this day. We thank you, Lord, for life, health, and strength and the activity of our limbs, God. Father, we ask right now that you intervene on our behalf, God. Father, we dispense angels to go forth and make all our crooked places straight, God. Father, we pray and ask that you will make our rough places smooth, Father. We ask that you will just bless our minds and hearts, God, that we will Be receptive to your leading, God, with this city need, God. We ask that you bless each and every heart that's represented here tonight, God. Bless and keep us, Lord, that we will walk in the path that you have ordained for our lives. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.

I'm going to welcome everybody here on the night we are here and then for our view of the session that we're going to call right.

And then press it. And then. That you will be able to buy. Mr. Miller here. There's a lot of money to be there tonight. Mr. Merrill here. You can be here. Thank you.

And we have a quorum. Thank you very much.

Yeah, well, I'll ask me I think there was some desire to continue with a better resume and questions and answers. And so we open the session.

All right, Council, if you just could be acknowledged, probably move on with discussions that you have questions about. There's absolutely. Thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone. So my desire this evening is to start over with the budget from square one department by department and line by line item. to see where we can make additional budget cuts to go towards our deficit this year and years going forward. So it's my belief that we can make additional budget cuts, salary cuts, and I'd like to start from scratch. Thank you.

i'm there for time you can call it on voice okay okay thank you

Okay. Thank you. Good evening. Enjoy. If we could start with general policy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I'm starting with. And I don't want this is you know, I see. Starting with salary wages and full-time but this is the year's 26. The 7, 1, 3. What's it or is it going to be in 27. 67, 8, and there was, if you tell me how many personnel that is, please.

Well, there is no budget for salaries for the IT department. There's no budget for salaries for the IT department? If you look under manager recommended. Okay. Okay. On the...

The information services. I see. So I look on a manager recommended that is zero. So did you explain to us how does that work with the manager recommended budget? The sound reason we just see room that you don't be understand that.

Well we don't have a salary person in that department budgeted for what we said.

You can remember I want to thank their services outsources that were in this room, okay, maybe they're more clear of that but you want to know that cause that you're also snow outsource should they should be a price.

In lieu of a salaried person in the IT department, 10-450, IT services is outsourced to Cyberplex Technologies that has more of our IT needs citywide. Okay, and we pay them according to services rendered? It is under an annual contract for a specified amount for those services, yes.

And when you say specified amount, is that just a general fee that is there yearly?

It is. It's for the contracted amount of read-apart and the city of Henderson. The contract services line, that expenses housing also takes care of other needs that the city has as it is IT related. Thank you.

Thank you. I don't use that information that you share with the cost is we. And we'll see what happens.

Or in our lot of it. Yeah, the students of the thousands of the budget was for it. And part of that, I think, in terms of giving time for us, we have to go back and pull the contract and know the exact amount. But it's based on the number of users, the user face of that. And it is a renewable contract.

So it's $250,000 annually.

Well, a little bit less than that.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you so much.

More than just me.

We don't know the exact amount of the contract, but the $250,000 covers that contract, Tom Glock plus, and other IT-related issues.

Thank you.

The next department, I would like to look over is city attorney. We have a city attorney, but you need a physical year of the this year, 49, 53. And I see a physical year 27 to 65. And I was told about the $15,000 increase. But my question is, is he hired as a part-time or full-time? And I'm trying to get clarity on that. And if we are making budget cuts, have I passed the terms in part-time?

Well, it's really not classified as a part-time or full-time. That's a contracted amount for an ambulance. in city.

And that's an annual service and that is the increase is because again $15,000 increase.

The comparison to last year's budget was one where the city attorney was split between city manager and city attorney. The $65,000 represents a full year of city attorney service.

Okay. The last attorney was contracted at $4,000 a month. And that would be $60,000. I'm sorry?

$4,000 a month would be $48,000 a year.

Right. That's what it was. The last contract I signed, it was $4,000 a month. And that total is how much, Mayor Proctor? I said $48,000 times 12. $48,000. I don't have my paper. So you said it was a 65. Okay. Okay. So there is an increase because the full year budget line item for the last attorney was $4,000 per month. It's crazy.

You may recall that, uh, Our previous city attorney was also the city manager. And so there was a problem with some cost savings there for having the two positions combined.

No, no, sir. I can tell you for a fact, I signed a contract. The contract was given to him prior to him becoming the city manager. And their contract was $4,000 a month because I signed it. And it had nothing to do with him being a manager at the time because he wasn't a manager.

Well, we put out for public consumption the position and received a number of replies, and the council picked Mr. Hartzog, and that was his fee.

Okay. I know with Mr. Edwards, when he was here, he was built by his time. Right. I'm not sure exactly how that worked out, but a little bit different.

Yeah, it was a certain amount an hour. Yeah. Correct, yeah. Okay. Okay. So, are you done?

I have more.

I just wanted to ask, so, is this the time to include the Mr. Sullivan? Because I'd be interested in knowing how much he's getting.

He's on contract, so he should be in our budget somewhere.

He still gets paid by the city, am I correct, Taylor?

He gets paid by contract contract.

Yeah.

Yes, he is being retained by for at least more.

Okay. So is that per meeting or is it a straight feet?

The choice is by the hour.

I would like to have a print out of, um, any and all plans actions is up to date. Um, attorneys fees for the last 12 months.

I'm sure we can make them available to

Okay, and I'm going to go and then it's time to continue. I see travel schools and meetings or again this may have already been answered, but we also include that in his contract as well. Travel schools and meetings. You have any idea.

Yes, that was all inclusive and there was no special way out for them.

Thank you. Stapp, Okay. Stapp, Next department administrative downtown. Now, I do personally know that she travels a lot. My question is on her particular travel, fiscal year 25. And again, this is a wish list, one person, 5,500. Questioning this, her travel in schools and meetings to one person, you have budgeted next year, 5,500. And it was $2,600. That's fine. Was that a question? Yes, sir, it was a question. What was the question? My question is, the increase in her track, The increase in her travel, we doubled it. It was a recommended, we doubled it on something. For one person.

Well, as I stated in the recommended budget, all travel across the board has been eliminated for FY27. Okay. With the understanding that we know that there are required trainings at various departments. are a part of or required to take on. And those would be accommodated within each budget through other available funds available in other budget lines. If there is additional travel that's needed throughout the course of the year where available funds may have been exhausted, but it's required training, then at the end of the year we'll do Uh, journal entries to handle those messes up the necessities as it was directly.

Okay, sir. So basically then all the travel on all these reports. I'm going to say 0, if you were to give them to us again, the budget expense report that.

You may be looking at, it looks like as you're looking at the budget matrix, refer to the expense report. Okay. Where it illustrates under the manager's recommended column. Okay. Where it has been cut. Okay.

Let's see.

Problems. I'm looking for something if anyone else has a question.

So I guess my question is, how many times do Miss Tracy travel? Miss Madigan, how many times does she have to travel? What constitutes different and required? I mean, I know that with the exception of the police and fire department, what constitutes the travel to make it a necessity. A mandate, yes.

Madam Mayor, Council Members, Main Street program requires the downtown development directors to attend the North Carolina Main Street Conference annually. It is required in order to keep the accreditation and We have to attend the annual director's meeting. We have two regional meetings that are not overnight that we go to and, um, occasionally some workshops that are regional and that's the trap. Um, if I may want one of the things that main street as we're getting trained, they, as part of being on the board and everything, um, they encourage board members. to give back to Main Street, to have skin in the game. And I think finance director Bucha can tell you, I've been going to these conferences, the regional meetings, the directors meetings for five years now, I've never turned in a travel expense ever. I've paid it out of my pocket.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead, Ms. Catherine.

I have a question on the salaries and wages. That amount, is that how many employees is that?

Ms. Madigan is the only employee in the company. Only one employee.

I'm not sure. What is dues and subscriptions? The reason I'm asking is because the previous year it was no amount there, but now we are looking at putting a thousand dollars there. So what's the difference in last year and this year?

Dues and subscriptions covers publications, memberships, affiliations that may exist from one department to another for various reasons that they would have to enter into those memberships and get literature and, as I say, establish All departments do have a due for subscriptions budget line. Those various things that they subscribe to or may have to pay an annual due to remain in some form of compliance, what have you. I can, Ms. Madigan can speak to what needs that she has in that line too.

And the reason I'm asking is because it was nothing there, but we're inputting something this year.

It's normally been there. So Main Street America and North Carolina Main Street, we have dues that are about $350 a year per entity. And then the North Carolina NCDDA, which is the North Carolina Downtown Development Association, it's a lobbying group out of Raleigh. I think their dues are $175 a year.

Okay, so it's three that we have to pay into?

Yes. Dudes. Okay. And yes, ma'am. On that same department, the Contracted Services General. How does that work for you all?

How does that work? Well, Contracted Services is a little bit of a catch-all line to accommodate expenses where that there may be a some type of service that would be needed as it would apply to maybe a downtown facade upgrade, the planting of flowers in the flowerpots, kind of a hodgepodge of services that would fall under that particular line to take care of those needs.

I have one question. All departments were asked to give back 6% of their budget. Can you tell me if every department gave back 6% and do you have that number?

That's a calculation that will be revealed as we close out FY26. Okay. that 6% was asked of the directors to facilitate into their current budgets. And when we get down to the end of the year, we'll be able to determine if that 6% was met. The commitment from the directors was there to do that. And we'll know more when we close up the year.

Okay. Second question and I'm done. We, back in 2019, agreed to bring on six more firemen because we were anticipating a new fire station. Those six firemen were brought on. We don't have a station. So I'm trying to understand, is that a necessity at this time? Because those are six full-time salary positions with no station.

I really have a lot of money to ask you, Fire Chief. Absolutely.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Good evening, Mayor. Those six positions were a portion of the 12 positions that we were currently understaffed with. So those six positions actually allowed the fire department to apply a third engine company within our two departments. So instead of having one engine at one station and one at the other, now we run three. So there are two particularly groups of people that operate out of Station 1 on Dabney Drive and one set of firefighters that comes out of Station 2 due to that small physical location of that station. So as far as standards go, those positions were only a step of which the city did not continue with their plans to add additional persons to produce our ISO data. Any reduction in staff at this point in time will consider the city more than likely ineligible to retain the highest load classification 2 that we currently have. And that would mean a tax consequence, not tax consequence, but a change in insurance rates for any particular business inside the city. More or less be a detriment to any kind of external growth.

Okay, so Thank you, Chief, for clarifying that. I do know that when we went through that fire study, that those six positions were recommended, and I know they were fulfilled, but the importance of it, and if I'm wrong, Mr. Dakin, you were here, I remember that it was because we were emphatically going to build a station on the West End. That's why my question came in.

Currently, as statistics go, as far as our last two gradings, we are still behind at least one fire station. And as projected growth is concerned, we're actually behind one on the east side and the west side right now. The east side as well? Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Any more questions, counsel? Oh, last question. This is for you, Jeremy. The airport. We give the airport $30,000 a year. I spoke with the county who doesn't quit serving anything. I spoke with the city of Oxford. They contributed $33,000, I think $673,000. And I hadn't gotten back anything from Granville County. Nobody seems to know why we give the airport $30,000. So I understand it's municipal and it's shared between four, two counties, two cities. Even the mayor of Oxford told me that he was totally against it because the airport does absolutely nothing for the city of Oxford, nor does it do anything for the city of Henderson. So why do we give them $30,000 every year?

Well, really, since I came on board 10 years ago, there was an appropriation made for the airport just for the sole purpose of supporting their efforts to updo updates and take care of certain maintenance issues that happen through the year. It has been Basically, nothing more than just a historical record of supporting the airport, ever how they got started.

Okay, thank you. I think you all should consider that's $30,000 with no return. Thank you, Joe.

Can I ask a question? Absolutely. We've talked about this before. I know there's some agreement that the Oxford, Granville County, Banks County, and City of Tennessee I don't know if it's a contract or not. And it was done, and I found it back before me. It was. It was part of economic development, working with local economic development regional. And talking to us about having an airport that would be, you know, an entity that would add to the value of local industry. And you do have industry out here that use it. They fly in and out, and it makes it easy. I know at least one in Henderson and one in Revlon and Oxford So it's used for them to be able to come in and out of the region. And you can decide whether you think that's valuable or not, I guess. That was the reason.

I think it's valuable, but I think Redline and the other entities should probably be paying for that. I mean, in my opinion.

I think they are through taxes and stuff. Right.

I just think $30,000 is a lot to just toss out every year. We're talking about cutting the budget. We're talking about, you know, we've got some shortfalls. I just think that if we look at it, to me, in my opinion, the boys and girls club get, what, $1,500 a year? Yes. I would rather see some of that $30,000 go towards our future versus an airport that don't have no more than maybe six people working there. If they got six...

I would look at the number of flights coming in and out. I don't know what revenue they generate from that. They sell gas. I'm sure it does. And then I also would look at the usage by local agencies and see if it's important to them. I think that's the whole reason it's done. So, I'll look at that. And, you know.

But you said historically it's been way before you. So, what do we know about it?

Does anybody on the council know anything about it? I know David Thomas, who was the chair of it a few years ago, came and spoke to the council. You and I were both here then. I don't think anybody else was. And, you know, he gave a history of and why and what they do. So, you know. I would love to hear from him.

He came and I also asked him as a segue to allow the youth from our public school system to maybe come through so they can learn about aviation. So I think that was established. I don't know if it went continued. So I just that's that's just a hunk of money going in a space that we really can't say what is useful. But anyway, anybody got any more questions? I just know.

Madam Mayor, I would like to know more about the airport. And it's actually $33,000 and some change that we donate to them a year. So I would like to know why. What's the purpose of it? What's the benefits from it? Because if we're looking at cutting, and we know we've got to cut, we've got to make some cuts somewhere. This budget is no way it can go through the way it looks now. We're talking about a deficit. So it's gonna take some tough cuts here and there to make it work. And from what I'm hearing and maybe he needs to come back and get with us because I don't see the purpose of donating that amount of money to something that no one actually knows anything about.

Certainly council's prerogative to allocate or the other defense?

Nothing you'd like to enjoy with help. If there is a, I don't know if it's called a contract, a proposal, whatever, we could get it off us.

It's an interlock agreement, all right.

It is an agreement.

Yeah, it's an agreement between two municipalities and two counties.

And what it says about leaving, it may say you can only leave by giving them a certain deadline, I mean, I don't know. It's all written together.

I think we should get it. It's an agreement.

Does it stipulate a time frame? It has a lot of verbiage in it. Yes, I would rather the CASA review it. I think it would be beneficial for everybody to read it because we have been doing that. Gary said you don't remember how long. I know we've been doing it for 11 years because that's how long I've been here. It's been the same amount every year. Okay. Okay.

May we continue? Absolutely. Okay. Thank you, Tom. You're welcome. The next topic is cemetery fund. I see some... Did you say your name? Yes, ma'am. My name's Joey. Okay, and Joey, if you would just... Please, I see the Department of Supplies. It looks like a very reasonable number and I recommend it. But could you explain a little bit this contract at 90k? Is that just for routine maintenance and is that contracted?

It is. The last year that is going to be the long landscaping maintenance of the entire Cemetery properties. Other services that sometimes come into play under that line would be fallen trees or broken tree limbs. Other types of maybe damages that may occur just for natural reasons. That line covers all of those with live services to keep the cemeteries up to date.

We can ask a question here. We always talk in this style about the funds. We have a large amount of money that's in, I'm not sure what the fund is called. It was left by a family a generation ago for upkeep and all of a sudden it's upkeep and maintenance of a city cemetery. It's not that. I think it's only for addition and expansion. You know what I mean? It's a three hundred and some thousand dollars of money that's saved every year since I've been here. I don't think we're going to spend a nickel out of it.

It's rare. That fund has been, as you say, in place for some time, and it's around $300,000 that's in there. We did a little bit of a study on that and got advice at the state level that those funds can be used for any purpose that benefits the cemetery in terms of upgrades, repairs, anything that enhances the quality of that cemetery, those funds can be useful.

And that's why I'm asking, is that some of those funds can be moved to this contract fund too? I mean, you said not, I know you're generic in talking about getting limbs up and that sort of thing, or trees, but what was it? Had you used that? That fund's been sitting for a long time.

They have been in there quite a while.

Certainly those funds could be used for those specific purposes. Can we look into this year trying to get into those funds? I mean, the question there was about $90,000. I know, I doubt it could be used for contracting for the law service at all, but it might. Maybe it can be. I'd love to get an interpretation of what is the this width of our ability to use it.

Right. As I say, the state advised some years ago when we looked into that, and it was pretty broad, any service that enhances the appearance or repair or quality of the cemetery, those funds could be used for that purpose. We haven't used any yet. I don't recall the last time that we used their... What was that? The tree trimming. The tree trimming, yes. We did use some of that for tree trimming.

You say it's been sitting there a long time. Is it in some type of account that it draws interest?

Right. It's in what we call a special revenue account. It's just basically a placeholder that we transfer funds out of. Do you remember the family? Can you remember the name of the family? I don't remember. It was an incredible gift.

Yeah. A gift unused to me is a gift I'm giving them. Right.

I remember Councilwoman Champion speaking about cemetery upkeep and maintenance and different things when you first came on board and you had specifically given information about this fund. Was it that the cemetery that you were speaking about was not ran by the city?

They're talking about the one in the Elmwood. But the one at the top is opposite.

This is Amwood Cemetery. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. I understand that. You're saying Amwood and Blackwall? It's just Amwood. It's just Amwood is the city. Okay, so who takes care of the one that comes in off 85?

Blackwall is the one that the council asked us to investigate as to who owned it, who would be responsible for it. And that's something that we have looked into. The title on that cemetery is very vague. And there are some plots that have been sold and actually have a deed before it was. But most of it does not. And the original founding company, if you will, is long since gone out of business. And there is no successor. So right now, Blackall has kind of been laid in a limbo. The city has done some maintenance, and I can ask Ms. Lipscomb to come up and speak to that.

Ms. Champion, didn't you question about that cemetery before by being the viewpoint of people coming into the front of your times? Okay.

I mean, I had a concern because coming off at 85, coming up 39, because at one time I understood that the county was supposed to be responsible and then it's like it changed. So my concern was you don't want the cemetery to look like it looks. And I never got a clear answer about what exactly needs to be done as far as that cemetery. Okay. Ms. Cruz?

Thank you, Council, Mayor. So the Public Works Department, we do have a landscaping company that cuts the grass there, but that is the extent of what the city does. For Blacknaught, being that it is not the city's, we do keep the grass cut. It does need a good tree trimming and some stuff cleaned up. But unless those funds are allocated for that, they're not funding that. The account that Joey was talking about is strictly for Elmwood. And we did utilize part of that this year to trim the trees and all over there.

And you're saying that it's in limbo. We don't, you don't know. We don't know.

It probably would require going before a judge and having a receiver or a trustee appointed to be able to deal with it. And even then, we're going to have to get into some fairly, in my opinion, expensive legal bills in order to find out who we have to deal with and to resolve the issues. Since we're in the process of cutting the budget, I don't recommend we go there now.

Okay. And you said we're, if we would run into extensive legal fees, but on this sheet, you're saying we pay an attorney an annual salary. Would that not include?

No, this would be over and above what he is expected to do.

So what is he expected to do then?

Well, he's intended to provide legal advice to be here at our regular meetings and to provide, well, he does come to the regular meetings, and we have had quite a few special call meetings. But in fairness, I would say he has tried to cover those as best he possibly could. He is not local, so that does have some bearing on him.

So I guess my next question is, I mean, even though we're on the cemetery, we ended up talking about the attorneys. I would like to know how many attorneys do we have that other than the two that we do, that we know of?

Well, we're engaged in some unusual situations right now. So we have Mr. Sullivan, as you're aware, is the partnerships, public regional partnerships attorney. So he represents that entity as opposed to just the city of Henderson. Of course, we have... who helps us on day-to-day activities, as well as filing that we might have from employees for EEOC, proceeding, those types of things. And first thing you may have, I guess. Yeah. It's also, that's right. One that we have on, available to us. It provides some consultation as well.

Okay. So we got three attorneys. Is it? Have we even considered looking for an attorney that can do what the city needs to do without having three different attorneys?

Well, I can tell you that the law is a complicated animal. And it's rare that you find an attorney nowadays who practices in a wide variety of disciplines. Most of them specialize. So do we have a real estate attorney?

And if so, who is it?

That's part of what Mr. Hicks is providing some assistance for. But if it were a complicated issue, I would probably go look for somebody else. And black knowledge is a complicated issue.

Absolutely. And I do know, you know, my citizens take care of that cemetery on their own. boys, is it lady, bad boys and bad girls, Jamil, E. Jamil Williams, his group goes out and they clean that space regularly. So we are thankful for that. I'm sorry? Yes, ma'am. So thank you for that. This is a question.

As soon as I know, there's still additional burials being done there? Yes, there is. So any of your homes, do you realize that? Do they do any help with it? No, no, no.

I'm not aware that they do, and I think it would take some research on what resolutions or ordinances we might need to be able to enforce anything out there. That's part of the problem of this being in a limbo. The city really doesn't have authority to go out there and say you can't do this.

Plus, there's not really a, I'll call it a map, I don't know what it is, of exactly who's buried in various areas. i know there's been variables that started but stopped because they ended up digging up graves to me and said it's horrible um but yeah it's it's not knowing all the way back it was the county when there was a cemetery which left uh it was and it's in the county in the county to maintain it we had some negotiations county years ago they said And they said, we'll just go do legal action and see. And that's when the city said, well, okay, since we cared about it enough, we'll at least go three in a row. But that's when the city took over with that, when the county would not. And it's not advised in time, you know, any sort of legal action, because it's going to cost money. Anyway, I just gave you that history. I was never happy about any of it. People are still using it, and I think it still creates some issues and and not being maintained totally, and nobody has ownership.

Yes, go ahead.

Christy. I am. I'm sorry. With the attorney Sullivan being coming out of your budget recalling regional water system, I know there's been a lot of, just a lot of activity with Mr. Sullivan lately. Yes, ma'am. I would say maybe within the last 60 days, Can you give us a projected amount of what's been spent for that attorney fees? Or is it like, is it by hourly fee?

I can give you a total amount, but I can't give you a breakdown. I don't have that in front of me. Right now, it's around $100,000 that we've spent.

$100,000 in the last 60 days? Yes, ma'am. Okay, that's a lot of money. Lawyers ain't cheap. I'm sure. Thank you. And we received one letter and a couple of meetings of participation.

Okay. So, Madam Mayor, I have a question. Go ahead. So, if we're doing, I mean, if that's the case, and she said the last 60 days, how many meetings do y'all have? Because he's normally at those meetings, right?

We've had... quite a few. He's conferencing with a number of people as well. We have two partners. He represents the entire partnership, and that's where the money's coming from. Essentially, the city of Henderson is paying 60%, actually 20%, and Warren County is 20%.

So is that $100,000 included in what the partners are paying, or is that just the city of Henderson? That's what's up.

So when it's regional paying it? That regional's money comes from the three partners when they pay their water.

But that's still a 60-40 split?

Yes, ma'am. Okay.

All right. Any more questions?

Okay.

Yes. Would you like to do that?

You want to do the next? Okay. Yes, ma'am. We can do the administration. We can go back. Something should be. And that is administration for finance. Is that not department for 40 or 20? Okay. I'm watching. Sure.

I would expect me to put.

You can go ahead, I'll find it. Okay. Um, Joey, where's your microphone? Yes, right. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, I'm sorry. Um, Joey, um, the administrative

420, question on the salaries and wages. I know the previous year, we're showing $352,899.85. And the manager recommended for this year is $192,500. How many employees is that?

That's for two employees. The two? The previous year, that included two other individuals. You had the city manager, you had the public information officer, assisted city manager, and the executive assistant. And this, for the proposed for FY27, it's the city manager and executive assistant.

So going forward, it would be two employees. And a question, it says cell phones, Verizon. 2,500. How many cell phones is that?

Two cell phones.

And I got two of them. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I'm following right behind. Okay. And I guess my other question would be for dues and subscriptions. It was $8,569 the last year, previous year, and I see it's down to $2,000. So what type of dues and subscriptions do they pay into?

Various, as I said before, various affiliations that they subscribe to for uh, association with memberships, um, like period, periodical literature. Uh, it's just a wide range of, of, uh, subscriptions that might come into play for the city managers use.

Okay. That's just, you know, this is just me. Um, I'm seeing a lot of departments are all the departments. Most of them are here in this building. Well, for the general fund, that's correct. The general fund. And I'm sorry, let me just throw this out there because I did not get my tour.

So I don't know all of the departments and stuff.

Okay, I do need one. I would like to have one. And the reason I ask is because if we're all in this building and we need to cut costs, can we not share some subscriptions, you know, that's geared towards majority instead of a select department. I mean, is there some way we can cut some of that?

I don't see any of those being shared. Usually those dues and subscriptions are catered to the function of that department.

Yeah, dues is a totally different thing. But, you know, apples and oranges here. So subscriptions is, you're saying periodicals and that type of thing. So

As it might apply to that particular department. For example, the fire department has their own affiliations and memberships just like the police does.

They're separate. They're off in another site. I'm talking basically here in-house.

It really doesn't matter where they're at. Those subscription services are catered to

But I still see that we cut it from over $8,000 to $2,000.

Yeah, I think with the previous city manager, there was a high number of subscription purchases that he saw fit to take up on that's not part of this budget.

Thank you. Okay.

So good. We move on along now to public works.

If we could go over public works, please. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't have any questions on sanitation. Anyone have any questions on sanitation? Could you tell me how many employees on sanitation? Please, your will. It's five. That as well was just still waiting to see how fun it is where should how you can help me with this. Is there a structured chart or all of a pay of the bones and staff on since.

I believe we have a set policy for that and the city does recognize a number of

holidays throughout the year that's paid for by the city. And that is within our budget matrix.

I have a question. Waste industries, motor fuels, that has been taken out and we spent almost $41,000 on that. What was that? Waste industries is under its own

They do impose an annual increase based on their call

Yeah, it's just kind of a blanket percent that they levy. I guess the city, I suppose, all of their customers.

When we initiated that contract years ago, I may have dropped this lever. Trying to find money to live away with us and get rid of garbage and do it away with employees. So we worked through the contract. That's it. You know what I'm saying? They're getting their guy around. Yeah.

I don't know if they're actually getting their gas from us.

They don't come to Public Works and get gas there. But the gas is bought and sent and delivered to them at our cost.

Which is tax. I guess state and federal tax. That was to help keep the contract going.

They combined that into the contract. Was it into last year leave. They've combined it so that it's not two line items name. It used to be a line item for gas and a line item for the contract. And that's been rolled into one name.

Are we able to see the benefit now that it's rolled into one? Now that we're not seeing it.

It's a no tit for tat, honestly. It's just not encumbered in two line items.

The billing is simpler.

Yes, the billing is much simpler.

Well, again, I just wonder if we're still getting the benefit of the contract then, like we're allowed to buy gas at a much cheaper price. Anyway, I just throw that out there to be looked at and make sure we know that's the case. What are you trying to say, Linda? We can't do that.

With them being able to purchase the gas lower, it doesn't increase our cost as much. That was absolutely the idea.

It was. I'm thinking if you have what providing more costs are now, are we able to see what that benefit is of them and what the benefit is for the contractor? I don't know. I've never seen a contract, but that's what I would think it would mean.

We saw when we went through it, because Lee was involved in it also, when we went through it with them, we saw the difference. It makes it simpler on the billing side. for us to combine.

And I just said that too, just so other council members know, was we did these contracts and did these things and we're always looking at how to save money. Yes. It was, we didn't like to, you know, give up garbage collection as a city service. But in that year, I remember we were about, had to buy a truck or two with a time truck for a half million. I mean, they're probably much more than that then. And we didn't have the money to do it. So we had to find them. And we had backroom and garbage pickup, which was great service. We found out that 90% of the people in the state did not have backroom.

Yes, sir.

It was easy to go to a cheaper contract service street sign. And we did the gasoline things, the benefit and the cost. But I'd say like a VCPI, after the first or second year, we'd go up based on consumer pricing. Hadn't seen that contract before.

The GFL contract is about $67,000 a month, isn't it?

GFL, let's see. I don't know. Off the top of my head, I'd have to look. Yes, sir. It's somewhere around $70,000.

I knew it was close to $67,000 the last time I looked at it.

Come on. And I know Gary, you said the truck was what, half a million dollars a couple of years ago?

Probably a million.

Okay, we can look at Public Works Street.

Thank you.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. I'm actually on page starting on page 60 here. We're free and I first wanted to ask about the sidewalks that we have many as the city of any many sidewalks that are in need of a parent within the city limits and. Manager recommended amount is $40,000 for the year. And even though the party requested 60,000. And with the William Street project, William Montgomery Street project on the horizon, and it being a lot of walking traffic in the city in the next couple of years, repairing sidewalks has pretty much been a priority of mine. Well, my question is, is there any way we can take advantage of some of the resources we have in the city, concrete companies, Sunrock, whatever, to take better advantage of the resources that we have here. Or are we just, can you tell me how we're paying for sidewalk repairs? Thank you.

Well, certainly what the city does apply in that regard, the services comes out of that budget. There may be an association with other outside resources that could

So we do try to utilize whatever we can in the community with fixing that. I can tell you concrete is not cheap, but the biggest part is the people who have to do the sidewalks. We do not have people who lay concrete in the street department. We do not have people that lay asphalt. We can do potholes. but we don't like asphalt in the street department. And those services come in a huge cost. We just did, or we're fixing to do a sidewalk. How many feet is that, Lee?

I don't know, 80 feet, 100 feet, it's not far.

Yeah, and it's costing us $13,000. So the problem is not the material so much, it's the people who are qualified to do sidewalks and asphalt.

So, and wouldn't it just be a training though? Like they teach the students at Job Corps that, and I'm not sure exactly what the curriculum is at Vance Brown. I'm a teacher.

I'm not sure either.

But I think that we could benefit, and Dr. Tavares is great as it relates to city employees. I just think that if there's an opportunity for our workforce to expand their skill set, I think that, well, I don't think, I know that the city could benefit from that. So I think maybe that's something we should look at.

I am all for people expanding their knowledge. You're not going to find a way in the city that as far as cross training and learning new things. I'm right there with you. It's the time for the employees to put it in. Not so much as on work time, but sometimes it takes their time. So they've got to be willing to put that in. Plus they've got to be willing to stand by their work when they do that. It's not as easy as going out there, putting up a frame, throwing in some concrete.

Okay, so, okay, that's great. So what if we could maybe garner a partnership with Vance Granville Community College? We should take advantage of them being in our community. And I do know that Dr. Demarius, again, is very open. So this may not take someone away from workforce hours. This is probably something they can do online. They have instructors that teach online. Again, I'm one of them. Let me finish.

Most of my students...

Their companies, most of the students that come to my class are all paid for by their employers. So that's why I'm saying it's a possibility of our workforce expanding their skill set. Right. Not really at the city's expense because there are lots and lots of money. I'm on the foundation board as well. Okay. Foundation board has money for people that want to learn new skills. And I don't think this would be like a six to nine month type thing. I don't, I think we should maybe look at that to, like you said, cross train.

Is it a hands-on class? Because you said most of it's online.

No, no, no. You can do hybrid. Okay. So part of the class could be online, like the book instruction. Okay. And then you can show up and do like the hands-on. Okay. So I think maybe that's something we should look at. All right.

We can do that. If you can put me in touch. Absolutely.

Okay. Gotcha. All right. So we could put some concrete down and make some sidewalks. Sounds good to me.

Thank you. A lot of other municipalities are taking advantage of their local resources.

Yeah.

Okay. And thank you. If we could move over to page 61 at the top, the utility patching. Okay. And again, we're talking about potholes, one of our favorite things, Ms. Christy. But I know, so you're saying, Ms. Christy, On the repairs for the year, you requested $50,000 and the manager recommended $25,000.

Is that what you're looking at?

Potholes, utility patching.

Okay, so utility patching is if we have a water line break or sewer line break and we have to cut up the asphalt, that's what the utility patching is. So we try to keep that separate from the other

So that we know what actually it's costing us. So why does it say DR for potholes and repairs? Right under that number. So up under that? Yeah, it says like an explanation for MR utility patch and it says DR for potholes and repairs throughout the city 327-2026. Yes. Go ahead. So for the

utility passion uh in this in the street budget that is for potholes and if we have to do any utility cuts for like stone grain repairs and stuff like that that's where it just pulls from so it's like a dual type thing so so in our water and sewer budgets we also have a line item for utility passion and we can utilize funds from our water and sewer um budgets to to patch those utility cuts but um this this is from the street department for any thing like a pothole or something thank you thank you

okay um for the item on auto supplies i'm just going to take it that supplies went up um eighteen thousand eight seventy nine to thirty nine thousand supplies went up this is to make repairs at the street department level Everything has gone up. With that, fields, supplies, departmental supplies, everything goes up. Storm drain materials to fix storm drains. We must be really getting the work in now. We're trying and anticipating in the upcoming year. OK, for that request and. And what's recommended?

Yes. Yes. I see that y'all are like you say, you're trying to make improvements because, you know, our citizens are talking about different things. Have you employed more employees or is it just this 15 that's covering all of that?

They're covering. So Mr. Sproul, city manager, allowed us two additional employees just to work on potholes. So we did replace those two positions. We replaced them already, right? I know we did interviews.

Yeah, we added two positions.

So that's included in the 15th.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am. Okay.

Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Okay. For the storm drain materials and just getting a little education here. Thank you. To fix storm drains within the city. And then we have the storm drain improvements for the storm drains that need repairs. And I know they're one, you know, looking at 10 K for the materials. And then you have to pay for the materials and we're paying for the 20 K recommended by the manager for the improvement. So a strong grant student thing and things overrun with debris sometimes, but the materials looks like last year set the rate thousand nine hundred thirty five dollars.

that budget was spent. And so with the focus on improving storm drains, that's kind of been on the city's radar over the last few years is storm drain improvement. So the current budget is $25,000 in this year for storm drain materials. As of the budget presentation, the work session that we did a week ago, we have about 14,000 still available on the table for this year. So it was basically just a judgment call to establish that for next year at 10,000 and see how that works out. Again, last year we only spent 1,200. And we still have about 14,000 on the table. So that's a workable range that that budget would probably work. Funds can be moved from other lines that are doing

uh better throughout the course of the year to add to that need be okay and okay and um that's good that explains the the recommended amount of 20k for the improvements for the year um hello yes i'm going to ask chris we don't need both questions i'm still concerned about being um like in the communities

Because I'm looking at overhead lights and traffic lights and stuff. Have we made the necessary... Have we done what was necessary to make sure the lighting in those communities is okay? Because I'm looking at a list of traffic, which is not necessarily a good thing, but the overhead lights, picture street lights on... and all that. I'm looking at all that, and I just wanted to know if necessary repairs, because in the Ward 4 district and the Ward 3 district, it's not, to me, in my opinion, adequate lighting.

So, to that, the police department is doing a really good job of going around on the weekends and then submitting on Mondays. I believe it's Mondays, right, Marcus?

Okay.

On Mondays, Everything that they find, lights out, not working properly, broken, whatever, to do for them to go out and check it. If there is a section that someone feels that there's not adequate lighting, they need to send it to them. That way we can do what we call a light study because there are certain regulations and spacing and all of that that we have to do with the engineering department to be able to say, yes, we can put lights there. Just because someone thinks it's too dark, it may not be somewhere we can place a light. Now, remember, when we do that, that becomes a city light, which means the city pays for that each month.

I think that's great information, Christy, but I want to talk about Mr. Dickey and Ward 3. I think that's been a situation probably for the last 10 years that the citizens have always complained in World War III, for sure, and World War IV, because my mom lives in World War IV, that the lights, they don't have enough light. And we also know that statistically proven that there's no light, there is crime. And so I know, Gary, we've done a couple of sessions at the churches, and it is very dark.

Can you send me those areas so we can take a look? Absolutely. Okay.

And I have sent some to you. They have been done.

Yeah. When I get them, we take a look at it.

Okay. The last time I had a discussion, everybody kept saying it was Duke's. Duke had to do it. So the city can actually put up lights.

When we do the study, Duke puts the lights up.

Okay.

And then we pay for the lights. The city has to pay for it.

Okay. Thank you.

All right. Next.

Joey, I have one question. I've seen here on page 64, the capital outlay, the amounts that were spent there has been zeroed out. Can you explain some of that?

Yes. Through the course of arriving at a balance in this budget, as I illustrated during the recommended budget, all travel and all capital outlay has been eliminated.

Okay, but bays, capital outlay, what do that say? When you say capital outlay to me, what are you telling me?

It's basically equipment type of items. It could be a dump truck. It could be a service truck. It could be a bulldozer, a backhoe. Anything along that heavy equipment line falls into the headway. And so that, okay.

Okay, thank you. Okay.

Straight. We can move slowly to public works garage. Public works garage. It's me.

Thank you, Joey and Chrissy. You guys have been super patient.

Thank you very much.

Yes, ma'am. What's up? This is Raj. Well, I think I'm there for 10. Yeah, I'm going to do this review. Are there any any adjustments that the council to be in the budget? Um, because I do think we are supposed to adopt it by a certain date. So are there any adjustments that anyone wants to talk about? Uh, maybe put more in one place and less another or this question is there? Are there any adjustments that anyone soon?

I pretty much want to know, is some of the physicians, is it really necessary to have an assistant if it's a small department?

I'm glad it depends on which department we're talking about, Ms. Fenty.

So you wouldn't convince it a department? Yes.

I believe given the number of employees that we have, I think it would be difficult for one person to do.

So another study of our side, what kind of study actually has been done to say that is necessary, or is that just your personal opinion?

Well, it's not. In fact, I've been here for a number of years. At one time, we had only one person in that department, and it was all she could do to help.

Question. Would a one full-time and part-time, would that cover it? the needed work event departments.

Ms. Gill, I think we do what we have to do, but I would just not believe that a part-time person would not be skilled enough to be able to handle work communities.

I mean, on that I disagree because you would, a part-time person can be just as skilled as a full-time person.

But there's a knowledge that goes with HR.

That's true. But you would interview for an HR person, a person with those, what's needed to work in HR. So that's doable. A part-time position is doable.

I can't say it's not.

Yeah. I mean, I've worked part-time, and I know it's doable. So, I mean...

I mean, I guess the reason why I'm asking, because a lot of times, never mind.

Madam Mayor, may I ask a question?

Absolutely.

Thank you so much. Good evening, everyone. And I'm so sorry for being late. I had a little hiccup at work, but I'm so happy to be here. Council Member Champion offered me a perfect segue. I have here in front of me both the budget and also an article that was published by our local media where it states that we have two employees in the HR office, is that correct? Each making $164,000, is that correct?

That's correct.

Could you please describe what those, if this is... Yeah, I think that's the same question you asked the last time. No, last time I asked about $192,000 for the administrative department. I did not ask about HR, and I would like to get clarity on that.

Sure.

The budgeted salary for both of those individuals is $162,300. That covers both individuals.

It's too important to full-time.

Although that's not in our... Although that's not in our purview, so hate that word, but although that's not in our purview, I just feel like it's important. The reason why I asked about a part, the reason why I agree with the part-time part is because a lot of times the doors are closed. I just feel like a part-time position, saving money. I mean, we're talking about the budget. We're talking about money-saving things that need to be done. So I question the full-time and the part-time.

Okay, this is for you, Joey. And please help me understand, because this is an astronomical number. In our finance department, our salary and wages are $403,000. Well, last year was $403,336.39. This year was $406,379.79. If I do the math right, that means that two employees inside of finance is making over six figures and four are making at least $70,000. Is that correct? That's correct. So we have four people in finance making $70,000 plus full-time benefits, correct? That's correct. Okay. What would that number look like with the benefits added? That's kind of a lot of money. So Can you tell me exactly what those positions are? Like, are they payroll specialists?

Right. It's, of course, finance director myself, assistant finance director. Okay, so it goes into two six-figure salaries. Correct. Okay, got it. And then we have, of course, the payroll specialist. Okay. The accounts payable slash accountant and the backup accountant. accounts payable and accountable.

So I'm just trying to understand. That's a lot of money. So four people make $70,000 a year. Correct. And one of them are an accountant. Correct.

But we have two that are payroll accounts payable. In other words, one of our staff was the former payroll specialist. She's now the backup for that payroll specialist and also the accounts payable specialist. So she's the backup, a doable backup.

And we have about, what, 250 employees now?

Yes, ma'am.

Is that a normal finance department for the size of our city?

Well, we actually had one more person than that years ago. That's the current number that we have now. which, believe me, comes in very handy if our payroll specialist is out. Chrissy Buchanan, who was the former one, steps right into that role. We don't miss a beat with getting payroll out on time.

So it sounds like most of the people in your department are kind of cross-trained and step right in.

Absolutely. We have to have that for that very purpose because it's... and you can't get payroll out, you also can't report to the IRS those income taxes. And if you don't do that, then we get fined by the IRS and it's a lengthy process to get that square one.

Okay. So, and during the market study, during the marketable study for employees, is that a regular salary for someone who works in finance?

Those were salaries that were established by the study. By the study.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Oh, Generally, you say reported to IRS, do you do it quarterly or monthly?

Per payroll.

Per payroll? Right. Okay.

And you have software that kind of... Yeah, it is tied into the payroll software and calculations that fill out the report that's done online.

Okay. And if Joey, if I can ask who is responsible for helping to retrieve the templates and all that we want to send aside with tech. Is there any particular person in the finance department that's assigned to retrieve those or try to build our hours back up?

You mean the material that was lost? Well, each one of us in finance has our own set of templates our own use of software as it might relate to the module that we go into. Accounts payable will have their own individual module. Accounts payable, same thing. The assistant finance director and myself, we have our own various modules within the finance software makeup that we utilize daily. Now, when the cyber attack occurred, we were able to go back to our software provider And they were backed up. They keep a backup of our system. They had to go back to a date that was clean. And then forward that to us. And we had to manually go back all the files from that clean date up to present. A massive amount of work and took a great deal of time to do that. All of the spreadsheets and other forms that we did had to be totally recreated.

I think, so... I may ask a question. It was seen, it was seen that the finance department could operate on a small approval. It seems it could be revamped. And it also seems that it is what we sometimes call top heavy. Um, with everyone cross-training and everyone knowing everyone's position, and you're saying that one role is there basically in case the one person can't be there.

Well, that person has their daily duties, which is a full-time job, but when the payroll specialist is out, they shift into that position and has previously been in that position for a number of years, so we don't miss a beat. That backup rule, if you're talking about making a decision to downsize finance, it would likely be a backup rule. But therefore, you don't have a backup. And you do run the risk of not getting payroll out and then missing your IRA. Anybody else?

Madam Mayor, may I please ask a question?

One second. I'm looking at the North Carolina market data, right? This is a reputable space where we get salaries from. For a senior account specialist, I can understand that 70,000. But for the tax payable specialist in the state of North Carolina, the range is from 48,000 to 56,000. So would that be the, I'm just trying to understand, is that $70,000 salary plus benefits or is that the benefits included into the $70,000? Because according to the North Carolina market data, which is a credible website, that salary for an accounts payroll specialist only ranges up highest at $56,300.

Well, I can only speak to the study that was done for us. Um, that's where those, that's the, that's the level that those salaries were approved.

Okay. Okay. Um, okay. That's, I'm, I'm just, you know, not facetiously though. I just, I'm just trying to understand. That's, that's a really high salary for people in the same space, two doing the same thing, one doing something different. And then, uh, to executives in that department. And of course, I expect the executives to make six figures because you got a lot of work. But I'm just looking at the highest pay in North Carolina. And I don't know who did the study. I don't remember. But according to the North Carolina market data, the highest salary for that position is $56,300 at the high level. And then a senior one, it goes to $69,000. That's why I'm wondering, have they been in like a long time?

They have been. The assistant finance director, just for example, has been closing in on 30 years. Our accounts payable, Kelly has been there. You don't have to call names. Yeah, I believe it's 16, 17 years. Okay. So pretty much they're all ascenders. Yeah, the backup has been there 10 years. Okay. And our newest accounts, our payroll specialist that was working in a different county came over with a number of years of experience. All right. Thank you so much. Go ahead, Ms. Hammond.

Fantastic. Segwaying from what Mayor just asked you, Joey, and again, this is just me simply being a new council member, wanting perspective, because I believe previous actions and decisions certainly tell the story of how we're here today. That being said, was the study done by someone who is well-versed in municipal salary studies and whatnot? Can you give me more backstory if that is possible?

Right. The HR department sourced out the company that provided the pay study. And I believe there was a number of applicants for that role before the city made its decision to go with the outfit that actually performed the services. So there's a lot of criteria that went on with the selection of that. The HR director could probably speak more to that, but that was the process.

Thank you, sir. So I guess my question I want to ask is, not picking at HR, but was she able to figure what the study figured out? I mean, is there anything that's in place to figure out what Joy should make?

The criteria was based on the demographics of other municipalities that were similar to the size of Henderson and other factors that made us a good match to compare to other cities. Do you remember how many cities it was? It was four. Four different cities that matched us closely in a variety of demographics.

Were they tier one counties or were they just population related?

They were population related in our area.

So there may not have been tier one counties?

Potentially.

Any more questions, Council?

I have a question to you, actually, which you just explained. The study was done on population and not according to Tier 1, and is that how the salaries were increased?

No, I think they just did a study based on size, but you have to also, I think any firm that did the study, a reputable firm, would have definitely included the fact that we are an underserved Tier 1 marginalized, under economically disadvantaged community. And I think that would have made a difference because of our fund balance. And we are not a very rich city. So I think that should have been taken into consideration. I don't remember. I think the study was done maybe what, four years ago, Gary, during the pandemic? About four years, five years, two years ago. Okay. Yeah. So I think all of those factors, and I don't know if that was their formula because normally they use a formula kind of like Joey uses in finance to come up with it. I don't know if that was put in, but I think that should have been considered because of our population and our financial situation. Like we're not a rich community. So I think that should have been looked at. I don't know if it was or not. And I don't know if it was the raises that took them to the end. I'm just not sure. That would be something Joey could explain. But I think moving forward, we need to understand that this is a tier one county, which means that we are underserved and we are economically disadvantaged. And we also, the median income for this city completely is around $56,000. That's not a lot of money. So I think that all of that should be taken into consideration. I can see Raleigh paying payroll specialists $70,000 a year. I just can't see the city of Henderson. Even with the study that was done, again, I don't know what company it was and I don't know what they actually delve into because everybody used different formulas for different things. And I would call the HR director because she would know that. So do you know exactly what was given to them for a formula for our community other than population?

So they have a presentation which I would be happy to share with anyone who wants to see that. As well as they would be more than happy to come talk with you about numbers, what they looked at, figures. They did have our annual budget figures. They looked at our staffing. They looked at all the different variables that we have here.

When you say variables, explain.

As far as our hiring needs, our retention issues that we had at the time, still do continue to have at the time, public safety issues. All of those issues, they took all of that into consideration. They did meet with all of the directors on multiple occasions, discussing the needs of the departments, how they need to meet the levels to retain staff here instead of them going elsewhere to another community. And those things, all of that. But then again, this is all detailed in the report. I think more than that.

Okay, what's the name of the company?

It's called AIM. A-I-M. A-A-I-M.

And that was that's where our p I'm sure and they were ready. And what questions comes. I don't find means.

General question. This is for the city manager as we're talking about. trying to find ways to save money and we're talking about positions that may be unnecessary have you identified any positions that you feel as a city manager that may be redundant or unnecessary well i would point out that uh ones that we did identify have been removed from the budget

In fact, I believe, Joey, if I'm right, that the assistant to the mayor was not included in the budget. That's great. As an example. Thank you.

And the assistant to the mayor for public record was making $22.50 an hour at a 20-hour work meet and with no benefits. So I just want that to be recorded. that people would know that um the mayor is the mayor of the entire city of 15 000 plus people and so um i can make it without an assistant but i think that was um something that should have been discussed but it's okay for us to have higher salaries in other places but i mean he was working very hard for four hundred dollars a week with no bad things i just want

Just to kind of piggyback off Mr. Noel, in doing a study, you only came up with one position that could be eliminated?

That's the only one that was actually eliminated. We have frozen other positions, some of them quite sizable, but also directed positions. I have some very capable assistants. that are handling a lot of those responsibilities right now. And I might add that they are contributing far beyond what they're being compensated when it gets to them.

And the reason I ask that is because, I mean, we have to be realistic here. We've given out raises that we could not afford. We can't go back and take them back. So what we're looking at now is making the hard decisions. We're going to have to cut the fat somewhere. I mean, no one wants to, but we have to be realistic. With this budget here, the money that we have and the shortfall that we have, some cuts are going to have to be made somewhere. So we need to realistically look at these salaries. We need to look at departments. We need to see who is cross trained, who can cover position than not being funny or facetious. But if we're getting out, you're making the top dollars, then you're going to have to work to that pay. I looked at one department had 15 employees. That came nowhere near to some of the other departments. So, you know, I mean, that's my thing. We're looking at Making cuts. We've got to do something to get this budget passed. And I know people are not going to like it, you know, but somebody's got to make the hard decisions. So we got to come up with some other departments that can do without the number that they are working with.

I don't think one job is going to help the budget. One part-time position is going to make it anything.

Let me clarify that the current budget proposed for the FY27 fiscal year, it's balanced as is. There's not a deficit or a shortfall. However, if council does so determine that you'd like to take some of the expense lines further down, certainly that's your decision, but we are balanced across the board as we stand behind you.

So are we balanced with the earmark or are we just balanced?

Well, the earmark is in there. That's what I was balancing.

That's right.

So we're not balanced. I'd like to add something here, just a thought. This is going forward. It's not going to solve now, but it may solve In the future, and we haven't had a lot of discussion whatsoever about county and city duly funded programs. That's tore me up for years. I know some of you are tired of hearing, but we fund some programs with the county. And I think we get the short end of the stick on every single one of them. And I'll give you just a quick history. I know you're tired of it. You know, the money was in the city for years. The meals were here, the families were here, the money was here. And when programs came up to be done, the city moved forward in all the programs, and they either asked the county to come in or let them come in later or co-fund. But it's always been that way. My belief is, of course, our budget's awful, and I don't think it's going to change quickly. But I think the counties will. I'll just go ahead and say it. I think they're going to have a cyber data center. I think it's going to happen, and they're going to bring in a lot of money. I think we should start a process of discussing with the county the process for them to look at how much the city has carried them on programs over 50 years, and they can begin the process of helping rectify that since they may have revenue that we may not have. And I'm specifically looking at 9-1-1, library, parks and recs, and probably the three biggest ones. Just for those, you know, if you think about it, you know, I live in the city, but I'm a tax county. I'm an advanced county taxpayer, as we all are. So you pay to the county. And you pay to the city. So when we have a 50-50 program, and it's coming out of general fund, a city taxpayer is paying out of the city's budget half of it. And then we're paying our share out of the county. We're about a third of the county's general fund, about $15,000 to $40,000 plus. So you can look at, in my city's 50-50 program, if they are truly that, we're paying 65% of the program through our contributions as a county taxpayer and a city taxpayer. So there was never made any justification in the beginning why those should have been balanced in terms of how much people were paying. It is through 50% city or 50% county. And that truly puts the burden on the city taxpayer. It was also the county taxpayer. So I would like to look at those again. The rec is 45 county. It's not even 50-50, it's 50 city. So we're paying, I don't know, close to 70% of that out of our two pops of taxes. Library system, when we move that to where we're not paying as much, I won't get into why, but, you know, library systems around us are run by counties. Most counties run library systems. The city's done them. We had a private library. The Perry family put it in the city years ago. The city took all the responsibility for it. The county came in later. But, you know, I would like to see the county have a library system for them. As a matter of fact, a lot of people in the southern and northern part of the county have a branch, like they do in the Granville County, Franklin County. But we have one large library, which is wonderful, but costs a lot of money, and we're still paying into that. And I tell you what bothers me most is we own it. I don't want to own it because the maintenance on that is getting ready to come to us. It's going to be painting. It's electrical. It's going to be mechanical. We're seeing heating and air now. It's all going to fall on the city. I think the county should have a library system. I think they should own a library. I think they should only do 100%. But I think if we could sit and start talking about some of these things, I want to set a committee to talk with the county manager and our manager and others and see if we can lay out a plan over the next three to five years like tape. 9-1-1 drives me crazy. What are we paying for 9-1-1 this year plus your $900,000? 9-1-1 is always run by city or combination. There's a lot of models out there. So we need to look at who does what in terms of these services. It's not necessarily city services. Getting to the cost of handling, obviously we're running a system of 9-1-1. suggested we do that. But I would suggest that the county comes in with the extra revenue conversation with them to take on more on the part of their role and the cost where they've saved over time by us paying more to now be the benefactor to the city as we try to play. I think we need to start a conversation. This situation we have here won't be fixed overnight. That is one way we might could begin to fix. We certainly got to start thinking outside the box and thinking for the

Yeah, I think that that is a very reasonable fact. And I might add, Ms. Gill, that it probably also makes sense for us to take a look at the number of folks that we have that are very close to retiring. And it may be possible to improve and take a look at that opportunity as opposed to actually having to touch that at all times. compensation across the board. But we're happy to pursue whatever avenues your council directs us to.

So with what you just said, you said about cutting staff. Now, most of y'all know I don't care how nobody feel about me, so I'm going to say what I got to say, whether you like it or not. I just find it ironic that the conversation was about one position, that needed to be cut. Makes me think there was a conversation behind the scenes. But Pella, you said you don't want to cut staff, but you want to cut that young man's staff. I mean, that young man. So I'm asking this question. Who else do you feel Or do you recommend, since you like to do recommendations, who else do you feel needs to be cut? Because clearly that one position. I still want to know, Madam Mayor.

I understand, and it's okay. But I don't think that's appropriate. It's okay. But if we're talking about doing a budget. Now, if you want to name departments, that's fine.

That's what I'm saying. If we're talking about doing a budget and having to have cut somebody. then clearly, I agree with Councilwoman Gill, there's gots to be somebody else. Yes, I said gots to, that's what I meant. There's gots to be somebody else that you need to find a cut. That can't be the only one you want to recommend.

I know it was. And I know why.

But I still want to know the answer to that question. Thank you.

I think you would need to give us an opportunity to talk with the weapons and see what might be the best recommendation we can give you if that is council's mandate going forward that you want us to start cutting positions.

Wouldn't it have been appropriate and I'm not a department head, I'm just the mayor of the city. Wouldn't it have been appropriate that I would have known or he would have told me so I could prepare my assistant. Not that he's going to not be okay, but don't you think it would have been a great conversation to have with me that, hey, we're not going to fund him this year? I'm just wondering.

Well, Mayor, I apologize for that being the case, but I thought that we were talking about the budget in general and

Well, I mean, Council Member Noel pointed out there, which one did you see?

Yeah.

Like he already knew. And then you commented and gave it to him. So I'm just wondering, wouldn't it have been nice to just say, hey, Mayor, you know, George is a great person, student, everybody who wants this and is. And, you know, but this is not what we can do this year. I think it would have been a common courtesy. And it's all about communication. I don't know if that was supposed to be a sucker punch, but I don't feel a sucker punch could be a sucker. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, we cannot have biases. We cannot have biases, and we need to be very transparent on what's going on. So moving forward, I'm just asking Please. That's all I'm asking for.

Great. Thank you. One more thing. I don't think we're going to do a whole lot of changes to this budget as it stands. I mean, as tight as it can be. But I would say we know this is going to be where we are next year and we'll be talking about cutting people or services, that sort of thing. We don't want to do that. Would it be wise, and this is for the manager to decide, not I, begin July 1 meeting with staff and a special meeting that's going to be all we all got to cut five to ten percent of our budgets for next year. I know you asked to return six percent this year. I would think that would be the same process that needs to begin eight, nine months ahead this year and we're moving forward to say we know we'll have the situation next year unless we have some incredible revenue come in that won't happen in a year. How do we run the city? And with the idea being we're not cutting positions if we can, but we will find ways to get jobs done duly. Or we will try to get, I don't want to cut services, but I do think that sometimes there's ways to get the economics out of departments a little better. Knowing that we're just not going to have the money. Knowing that we're not going to accept less service. That yes, we want to give the citizens all the service they need, but we've got to find a way to do it a little better. You know, I've been reading a lot about data centers and AI, and I'm looking at one of the first things companies are doing. They have corporations. The stock market's going crazy because they're cutting staff because AI is helping them find ways to use less people. And one of the things I read about all the different ways that's happened, this is a bunch of ways. One of them, though, was customer service. When you call in, I know we have customer service people at all different departments. I know they do different things. But if you could find ways to have those services done within this department with other staff, It could be one customer service person who calls in. It gets one person who answers the phone for everything in the city. It gets some of the information they want or gets their phone call to the department. I do think there's ways now that we can use technology and find some safeties without losing service. And I think we need to start working that into our mindset July 1 this year within every department. Your department may not have the money you have this year, next year, yet we expect to provide the same service. And that's asking a lot. But if you work on it a long time, I just think we've got to start early this year. We can't wait three months for the budget and say we need $4 million out of the fund balance. Or we're going to cut staff. Or we're going to raise taxes. It's not the ways we'd like to do it. Let's start now and prepare not to do that. And then see where we get it. We have to start our own. I'd like to offer those whatever the forward in terms of next year.

That's a great suggestion. Well, thank you.

I'm sorry. I was moving forward. You're okay.

Um, um, um, Joey on the information services for 50. Um, it says for a full-time staff and one employee, but it's been zeroed out. Is this an empty position?

Yeah, that position was eliminated due to the fact that we were outsourcing all of our .

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am, thank you. Okay, and I was, we were looking at, I'm sorry, we were looking at garage 555, and I don't have any questions unless there's someone else that wants to put it on.

Tracy, if I could note, I have received a numerous outstanding amount of texts concerning this article and paper. And according to General Statute 168-71, I'm calling an emergency meeting using my mayoral authority. I need six hours. Since you have a quorum here, I'm calling an emergency meeting concerning an employee matter because my phone is off the meter about what happened in the newspaper.

I have no idea what happened.

It's okay. Everybody else is texting me.

It's just not good.

But it's an employee matter. I'm calling an emergency meeting for an employee, for a personnel. For when? I need six hours, so you can plan the time. We have to cancel here now and find out when they're available. I mean, or tomorrow. Oh, no, not tonight. Okay. Tomorrow.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Thank you. We can get a consensus of time from everyone while we're here. I'm available. I'm flexible.

Anytime after 11.

After one o'clock in your time, flexible, flexible. After 5 p.m. After 5 p.m. That's good. Okay, so it looks like, Tracy, it's, well, I know it's only one person saying that. Mr. Noel. Not available. Not available. WELL, 5 30, I GUESS IT GETS TIME PEOPLE GONNA BE THANK YOU. THAT'S THE EMERGENCY CALL BEING CONCERNED OF PERSONNEL MATTER UNDER THE GENERAL STATUTE.

ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD, MAYOR PROTENT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, EVERYONE. OKAY.

WE'RE MOVING ALONG.

Any questions?

I don't have any moving along in the next one is development services.

4, 9, 8. How many employees is development services?

Six.

Three. Okay. Is the fourth one included in this recommended budget? Yes. I read four. Okay. Oh. So that's 55 times four. Right there.

Thank you.

What is this type and when the age.

The development services department utilizes outside individuals who are part of land planning and other committees where they they serve in that role to assist the city with various initiative decision would have you to say that's what I was like it was good.

If I may ask about professional services, just explain it to me. I'm sure there's a good cause.

Okay. Professional services could capture a variety of ranges of expenses to include the need for attorneys that may apply for the various zoning or planning, however that might apply to It's there for that purpose. Any other outside professional service for consultant?

And again, that's something that I'm turning that would not be able to handle. Is that correct? Thank you.

Harry, when you walk out, we, um, staff said emergency meeting tomorrow at 5.30. Are you available? All right.

Dr. Reed. I didn't assume. I'm sure. I saw that in the end. I'm famous.

Okay.

And Joey, when you have different departments that have different hardware and software servers, can you explain that a little bit? Because that's not good. They're not on the same system. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

The hardware and software line is usually for peripherals that might need to be addressed, whether it be a monitor, a printer, other devices. minor level types of things that may come into need for that department. On the server basis, that's going to be handled by our contractor because those are a lot more sophisticated and integrated on a technical level that would not involve departments.

Thank you. And so our server, our routine server, that's something, well, So grass cutting and demolishing of homes.

Yeah, I think you're looking at contracted services. Contracted services. That covers those types of services as needed for property initiative.

I have a couple questions on development services.

I do. With a new position, with a new position, and not much is that salary.

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that that is in the 50,

Thank you.

I'd like to move to Public Works Administration.

How many of our employees is there, Gillian? Gillian, can I read? Two. Two.

Two.

I'm on page 47, and I was asking about the buildings, and I see you have for the repairs on the building for public works, and 30% would also come out of the water and sewer, and that's just another way how you're able to work on the cost by granting funds from other places. Thank you. We pay a lot of money for service. We've got a lot of money for routine service.

Contract service. That's anything from grass cutting to fixing the building. That hosts a whole slew of things.

Grass cutting a lot in the city. We do. We do.

Yes.

How many lots do we now own when we cut down a house that we have to cut?

I can't tell you. I don't know off the top of my head. There is a list, though, that is five pages long of property the city owns.

It's quite a amount.

Yes, sir. We had a map out earlier today. I wish I had brought it back with me. But we can go over that at a council meeting if y'all would like.

I had no more questions for you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's see. My question is, I guess I just want to know what professional services are available. Right. Okay.

There may come a time or two where the HR department would need some legal advice or anything that's primarily what that would be useful.

Thank you.

I'm on page 9. I was just going to have a question. Physical year for employee events. Current budget, if you would, would the managers recommend it with those employee events?

That would be city events that would cover health fair, holiday types of incentives for staff. There are various activities for staff motivation well.

Has that happened in the last year? I know we've been trying. What have we done for our boys in the last year as far as any type of health care or mental health training or holiday incentives? I see the budget had 17.2 and the department requested 17.2 this year. Could you explain what that would be used for next year?

So, how y'all doing? Mayor. So, we did health fair for any vendors to come in. We also did little trinkets for the staff to show their appreciation. Just like each department have their own special events for their time of the year or month. This year, what the city did was, or the HR did was, they did it throughout one day, a meal. We sort of went away from the traditional have a big meal because a lot of people wasn't showing up because it's a different time. So they actually did a marvelous job of going to the sites to deliver or have a person from the department pick up. Also a little thing, so it's just award ceremonies we have. One time we was ordering over a $50 plaque, but they get to keep the plaque there instead of really taking the brand. So little trinkets such as that. Again, we are almost 200 plus Our time is up. This is an opportunity for the gift shirts out, recognizing what we're doing in the community so they can see it. So that was one of the items.

I don't have any more questions for human resources. Excuse me.

We have one question. Data services and internet, Joey, on page nine. They budgeted the actual and the budget amount was $80.75 and it was increased to $500. What was the reasoning for that?

Data services and internet for human resources? Yes. Yeah, the current budget is $500. The department request was $500, and the manager's recommended is $500.

It was increased from $80.75.

Well, $80.75 was the actual budget from the previous year, but through the course of internet connection and Wi-Fi fees and so forth, the overruns that take place really across the board through the course of the year, the establishment of $500 was deemed to be adequate to cover those costs.

Thank you. Thank you. If we could move to governing body 410. OK, I guess I start off with the board stipend. Current budget is $102,200. And the department requested $88,300. And the manager recommended that amount as well. Could you just tell us how you arrived at that number, Joey, to give me some clarity? Thank you.

That being a Department of Request, it was not altered. I would defer to the court to weigh in on that.

As far as I know, nothing has changed. Thank you. Nothing should be changed on that.

All right. Thank you, ma'am.

Okay, and so with the discretionary for Maris Elliott, it was in a budget for $5,000, and the department requested $5,000, and the manager recommended $2,000. Okay. Stipend for the council.

Stipend for the council. If I'll interject, that $14,300 is restated. It's in there as requested.

I have no more questions, so they're being embodied. Thank you. And Jeremy, I'd like, look to the other departments, youth services, APOC, and as we look at recreation and parks, we could just go over that quickly because I know initially you said that because I'm not sure if Vance County also contributes to these funds. Could you explain that to me so I don't have to guess? Thank you.

Mayor, City Council. So we have been cooperating with the county, MOU, where for recreation it's 55%, 45% of the total bill. So it's one of the shared things that Councilman Dickey was explaining earlier. Well, for ACOC, it's 50-50. We have youth services, 100% of them. We manage it. We oversee it. And that's basically what they are. One of the things like you mentioned earlier, Mr. Baker, we've been working with the city attorney, but just looking over their contract administration, we get what's due to the city for that. So that's one good thing that came from the meetings with the city attorney. But I can tell you, our budget is flat except for the increasing utilities. It's always been flat for the past four or five years because of something like that. What I've learned at the Main Street Conference that me and Tracy considered, and a couple other city citizens, was when you produce things downtown, open spaces and parks and recreation places downtown, it draws businesses here. And that's one of the main points we tried to accomplish when we did that, the park there. So it's going to be the focal point for a lot of things. But we've got to share needs and everything. I don't think I've ever gone further.

Can I ask a question? Yes. When we raised, I don't know, if we gave $200,000 to Recreation, does accounting match its percentage of the increase? For what?

If you got an increase to the budget from the city? Whatever the percentage is. But it's also, you understand, I'm managing three budgets in Recreation. So it's 620, then it's ACOC Center, then it's ACOC Aquatic Center, then it's Youth Services.

If we, you have this election, you just have to cross the board 10% reduction. Would the county then participate in the reduction? Yes.

Yes, yes. That's all I want to hear about figures. And again, it's one of those situations where, again, I'll talk to my staff about what we need to settle with and what we need to accomplish. like the other department, we have gaps in full-time services, and we manage those as well as possible. But whatever the 45%, traditionally the county pays with whatever the percentage is. But again, they check and tease and dial it out just like we do. Let's talk about for you too, Dr. Spanning.

Yes, ma'am.

I do have one question. Why so many cell phones?

So we're in a technology world. We got to show what we're doing. At one time when I first started, we didn't have no cell phone, but the department had an administrative system. Well, we want to post things. If you notice, our social media is really up to date and we show things in real time. We have, again, under the recreation, you have aquatics, swim lessons, you have... Programming, senior programming, you have Special Olympics, you have youth programming athletes, you have outreach, you have so many leisure services, special events. Well, we want everybody to know what we're doing. We're trying to show what we are accomplishing in our department, and I can't do it with one cell phone on. with one person. But also, we're not just sitting in an office. We are out and about. We are different parts of the city with different partnerships. So I want us to be able, when we capture that moment, when we're doing our own events, that's the best way to do it. Any other questions?

Sir, thank you. I mean, you know. The next apartments are please. I do not have any questions. And fire. I do not have any questions. Again, when we look into other forms that are part of our events worksheet. Regional water system, the sewer and the water fund. I trust the expert. I trust the expert. She's there.

Thank you.

Vance County Sheriff Program. It's page 98. Thank you. And I can see the money that said were recommended. I don't have any questions. Sure programs. Contributions to local agencies and I didn't want. The first time the airport. So the airport does have a current budget 33,750. The department requested that amount and the manager recommended that amount. I would like to make cuts to that, but I would like to hear from my colleagues.

Um, yeah. Mayor, um, We kind of went over that before and my insight into that was that I don't feel that at this point in time that we unless it is in a contract or we're going to look at the paperwork I don't feel that we need to support that.

I would love before we pass the budget to have them come and speak to us and tell us what goes on at the airport, what the money's useful, and what they can tell us that's important to us. I think I have an idea of it, but I'd like to hear it from them. I think all of us could probably do a benefit.

We'll put that in touch with you.

Thank you.

I'm a minor hearing family as well. But I think if we cut McGregor Hall to $30,000 to $5,000, I would see a purpose of not cutting the airport. McGregor Hall sits in Ottawa City, and I think McGregor Hall really needs that money. They came and told us exactly if they didn't get revenue, they was going to shut the place down. So I would give McGregor Hall the money, then they give it to the airport.

Mm-hmm. I do not think that they need that money as well. I mean, I feel like there are other services, including McGregor Hall, Boys and Girls Club, and maybe some other entities that may need it. So I would agree to cut it as well.

Okay, Jerry, can I ask about the Appearance Commission? Even though there are no funds allocated, I'm just curious. Is that something that's supposed to make our city look pretty?

We started two Saturdays ago. Okay. It was part of recreation of my appearance committee when I first started. It was going around the mayor's lot. aged out. We couldn't get no members when we started from day one. So they took the budget away from the committee because we couldn't find anybody for it. And again, this is one of those situations since it was known as being on the recreation, I took it with my part-time staff and the youth to take on a lot of those tasks. majority of the interest rates in the city, the signs, the rehabbing of the city of Henderson, my maintenance department took over those things and maintained those. We have a couple of community people, utilized community service, we have that skill, updated on weekends and things of that nature, upkeep it on the weekend. But it was a committee that we used to oversee. It disbanded because of attendance, following Rob's rule of order and what the council said, and just haven't been able to find anyone to take it back home.

And as far as boys and girls club we increase that. The problem with this was $750 manager recommended $0 in and think we came to an agreement of $1500 that's been included. And And no more questions on contributions to local agencies. Okay again with our non departmental, our debt service and our audit. I have no questions. I believe that to the professionals. And lastly, with the general fund, I have no questions. I'll leave it to the professionals. Thank you, Joey.

Let me leave counsel with this. You know, through the budget process, the 10 years that I've been here, this has certainly been a budget that involved the deepest cuts that I've ever imposed across the board. To make up the amount of ground that we had to do in order to not spend a dollar more than five million. Mr. David mentioned an early start to the savings process. That's certainly going to come into play. I shared that this budget you're coming up for FY27 will be a savings effort on steroids. I've informed the staff about a week ago that the month of June would be a total shutdown other than our normal utilities. contracted expenses, what have you, but everything else has got to go do absolutely generate as much savings as we can as we close out the year to funnel that back into fund balance. As I've stated to council during the number of budget presentations, that taking out all the travel, taking out the capital outlay is our starting point. That's what allowed us to given what we're on the hook for in terms of what we view are more data fund bonds. Hopefully we can mitigate the use of that down to the most extent practical through the course of the year. Staff do know through those presentations that anything that is absolutely needed that's been cut out, their challenge is to go to their other budget lines and find that money where practically If it turns into a situation, as I've repeated this over and over, at the end of the year, if you do have those needs that do surpass what you're able to have in a reduced budget or what you're able to transfer out of other lines, we'll figure out how that we can cover that through our collective savings that we do every year where we put all the surpluses into our reserve line and we'll backfill those deficiencies. There are other techniques through the budget process. As you've seen through these illustrations, the department I asked may have been cut down. That's taking into account what was last year's budget. What did we actually spend? How much was left over? What is the current budget? How much do we still have on the table? Through a collection of all that data and then coming up with a reasonable budget that we could probably get by with, with those variables helping to guide the final number. I think that this budget is balanced as it being balanced as is. I think it's a budget that we can go into FY27 and manage it thereafter. There are other cushions that are in there. Our benefit lines have extra percents in there that will come in handy at the end of the year when we get down to the bottom line and we need some additional funds to backfill some of these areas that may have gone over more than we expected with inflationary variables that come into play or special needs that may have cropped up or unexpected things. We've got some cushions in there that can help us get through this, but absolutely savings will be paramount. And hopefully through the course of the year, things will develop to bring more revenue through some of these big-ticket items that are on the table. Hopefully, they can come on board as soon as possible, and maybe there's some caveats to help us get through some of those gaps. So I'll leave you with the FY27 budget balance as is. If there are adjustments, as you say, from the reduction to the airport, the increase to McGregor Hall, we'll work that out before we get to the June... adoption. Thank you.

Thank you. All right.

I just want to know if we are on the current.

As I mentioned before, there are positions that we have frozen and we have filled, mainly their supervisor positions. There are also part-time staff for a kind of recreation, you know, seasonal that we are filling those. That's about where we are at the same.

And are they contributed to the positions?

Well, they do. We've also got a payroll expense, but ACOG has the somewhat unique position of being also the, has the ability to collect fees and revenue that helps offset some of it. Thank you.

Mayor, may I please make a comment? Sure. Thank you so much. Helpful. Joey, our finance director and our city manager, as I've stated before, thank you so much for your efforts in just giving us a budget that, although not ideal, meets the city where we're at right now financially. I think I echo the sentiments of my colleagues, but I will only speak personally for myself. One of the biggest things that we should strive for is going back to good governance, and that's not a... The comment on this Council rather as a city, we need to go back to an environment that foster stability and I really love that word and I hope and pray that we can protect that stability so that we can create and foster an environment where development and growth want to come. So thank you so much for your hard work.

Do we have a motion to adjourn? I make a motion. Motion by Council Member Randall, seconded by Council Member McTaggart. Have a good night.

Well, thank you.