School Committee - Regular Meeting

Hello, everyone. My name is John Link. I'm the chair of the school buildings, facilities, and maintenance committee. I use the hehim pronouns. It is 06:13. We are starting late due to some technical issues. Thank you very much to our clerk's office for powering through and sorting it out. We're gonna call this meeting to order pursuant to the pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of the city council will be conducted by remote participation. We'll post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City Of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. With that, can we establish quorum, please?

That we can. Councilor Scott? Councilor Sai? Here. Chair Link?

Here.

Alright. With that, we have two members present, so we do have quorum.

Wonderful. We'll take a brief recess, so that oh, and we we have to alright. So, I guess, we'd have to do I forget. Do we have to actually vote on the do a roll call on the recess?

Not to recess, but when you guys come back.

Come back. That's it. Got it.

Just make sure no one gets lost.

We don't need another roll call. Thank you, chair link. My name is Ron Biton, chair of the, same school building facilities and maintenance subcommittee for the school committee. I will also establish quorum. Liz Eldridge, are you here?

Present.

Laura Piton, are you here?

I'm here.

And I am here. We have quorum to do business. I will turn it back over to chair Link.

Alright. Thank you very much, chair, and let's, reestablish quorum.

Alright. Let's do it. Councilor Scott. Councilor Saeed. Here. Chair Link.

Still here.

Alright. With that, we still have quorum. Everyone made it back.

Wonderful. Alright. Unless there is, any disagreement, we're going to, table the, minutes for approval at the end of the meeting, and go straight into, item number two then. So this is, item two, ID twenty six zero two four one, that the administration provide the committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates on the Massachusetts School Building Authority, MSBA, process for the Winter Hill and Brown Schools.

Good evening, Sheryl Link, members of the committees. For your record, Richard Reyes, director of infrastructure and asset management. Not any big updates since our last meeting of of these committees. The MSBA continues their formal review of the preliminary design program, and the tech team continues work on the other portions of the preferred schematic report just, you know, so everyone knows and and, you know, is aware. We'll be mobilizing drilling rigs around the the building to do test borings, to inform foundation design, see what's under there because there had been another school and some other buildings that were demolished for the Winter Hill.

Of course, our experience with the high school says we will probably miss any hazardous materials with our test borings. And only discover it once we knock down the building and start digging. It'll also inform, design for, ground source geothermal, should we decide to to go in that direction. So we'll we'll be going deep enough and put in monitoring wells that we understand what the depth of groundwater is and that that sort of thing. So these borings will serve multiple purposes.

So you'll you'll see that deployed this week and next or we're running out of this week. So I guess it's gonna be next week. Other than that, I would the the team also had another community engagement since our last meeting. This one was held at the TAB and try to focus a little bit more on parking and site conditions. I haven't got a readout. I just got back from travel myself, but that that was another meeting that happened. But, otherwise, things are are moving along nicely.

Well, welcome back, and thanks for for making it to this. I guess my my only question is around those boring. So, I guess, how many how many borings will there be? Is it how loud is it gonna be? Or or have we told the the people around? And then, I guess, just, like, what do we expect in terms of how drastically or not drastically that can change things?

To the chair, it it's not really gonna change anything. It's just gonna inform our designs. You know, it's we're still early days. I don't think it's gonna change anything on the footprints. You know, we're we're we're we're putting in the borings as close to the building as possible coming up, you know, like, the the loading dock and around the playground.

So, you know, I think we get, like, five or six borings. I don't anticipate that it will take too long to sink that many. It's probably about a week's worth of work unless we hit refusal and have to start hammering. It's not terribly loud. But, you know, I've been around boring rigs myself, so I just kinda hate don't don't hear them anymore. But, yeah, we we we have let the neighbors know that that this is happening. We we'd be doing it during normal construction hours anyway, eight to three or seven to three.

That was my last question, actually, because we just had an experience with us and neighbors over here with the with the DOT where they were doing borings in the middle of the night.

They did. They did. DOT deliberately did off hours for their operations and detours. We're just gonna do normal Perfect. 7AM to 3PM shifts. Okay.

Great. I guess, let me chair the tone. I'll leave it to you.

Thanks. Any questions from our side? I'm not seeing any. Oh, sorry. Member Eldridge. Go ahead.

All good. Through the chair. Quick question for you. I know that there was a meeting recently at the TAB talking more about community design. I wasn't aware of the parking and site conditions one, and I know that's been a hot topic of conversation. Do you have any more information, or will we have any more information soon about that piece of things?

Yeah. Let me get back to

you on

that. The the design team will prepare something in time for our next school building committee meeting or yeah. Which is when is it? Monday, the have

to reschedule that one. Yeah.

Yeah. So the the school building committee will will have, a meeting on the eighth, and so we'll have materials on that, and, we can distribute those out.

Okay. Seeing no other questions on our side, we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

Thank you. Alright. So we will, just leave this one in committee, as we do and move on to item three, ID 26 dash zero seven zero nine, that the administration reports to the school committee and this council on indoor air quality conditions to Kennedy School specifically regarding mold and humidity levels and outline steps being taken to address them. This one was, also from last time. I think we were waiting on some, reports on actuals the site visit and, processes that were might be created. Commissioner Weisman, see you're here.

Thank you, chair. Eric Wiseman, commissioner of DPW. Yeah. So then since our last meeting, I met with the school department to outline a protocol for handling air quality concerns and requests and complaints. In brief, that process would be defining an intake at the school department level of these sort of complaints than in a a process of information gathering on the part of the school department about the nature of the request, what the incident was that that is causing the request.

If the school department deems it necessary, we would then the Department of Public Works would conduct an on-site investigation. That would be a site inspection. That might be a visual inspection, smell inspection, moisture detection. It sort of depends on the the nature of the concern. Sometimes, that would be pretty unnecessary because, you know, moisture or mold or something might be immediately visible, and then it would immediately go into a remediation process.

And then after, that investigation or remediation be necessary or or or was completed, the school department would then determine, based on criteria that they're working on, what would be the next step and whether an air quality test would be necessary. So, that that's sort like, the broad the broad steps of the process. We have not or the school department hasn't formally defined what would trigger, one outcome or another, but that's where we are on that. As for the Kennedy School itself, we did a couple of site visits after the meeting. We went to several classrooms and also, like, looked through three one one requests.

And we didn't we did not find a lot of requests about air quality. And and but based on the conversation last meeting and asking around in the school, we checked out several, storage spaces, including, I think, the one mentioned in the meeting. We didn't see a ton of evidence of, mold or anything like that, but, we do have areas now to keep an eye on. I think there was some some staining from an old valve leak as part of construction that we replaced. It was just a ceiling tile, in one of the classrooms that was identified. And so that's, like, something that we're going to continue to keep an eye on.

Thank you. So just just to be clear, you you said you didn't see a ton of evidence, but it sounds like so the

I didn't we we didn't see

I'm sorry. Go right there.

We didn't see evidence of mold in the in the storage space spaces that were identified.

Got it. You saw I I assume that you just meant that you saw things like the staining, which was maybe not necessary.

That was in a different spot, but yes. Yeah. We didn't see anything in that storage space. We didn't observe anything, but I didn't wanna say you know, the person had no reason to make that statement, but we could not find anything.

Yeah. Great.

Sorry for not speaking more specifically there.

No. Just wanted to make sure I understood. I don't have my I'm not in in the Kennedy School ever, so I don't really know how to keep pushing on this if I need to. So I'm gonna leave it to chair Patone and the school committee.

Thank you, chair Link. I'm wondering if member Piton has any any information. Yeah. Go ahead. Go go ahead, Laura. Oh, okay. Sorry.

I'm so sorry. Can you hear me?

That is a neat trick. Yes. We can hear you.

Yes. I'm I'm on my phone and the computer because I didn't completely transition. Anyway, I was happened to be at the Kennedy the day that, Mike Bowler was there, and Danielle, who is not on the call she is in the call.

Yes. She's

here. I just wanted to compliment both of them for their desire to try to get to the root cause of things. There was they were very thorough. I didn't go through every single room with them, but I happened to go into the storage room that one of the ones that was behind the stage. And we had a really, you know, good conversation, and he hit, mister Bohler talked to the custodian about certain areas to try to keep that space a little clean.

And, you know, there's a lot of stuff in that space, and there's also, like, a heater. It's not part of the full, like, system wide HVAC, but it's like a heating unit. And so there was some mention at some point about a smell in that room, and I I kind of, like, was guessing. And, again, this is not facts, but, that it might have been from like, when you run a heater like that that's maybe dusty, it can really not smell good. So, anyway, that's just something I'm only bringing up so that, director Wiseman can kinda flag that for himself.

I'm sure mister Bohler had already mentioned that, but, and there was a teacher in particular that, I don't know if miss Barry wants to speak to it or if we've talked enough about this, but, that they had been concerned specifically, so they went and tried to track them down. So I don't know how that went, but I just wanted to compliment and think that there was clearly, energy trying to follow-up on this and and really positive intentions.

Miss Barry.

Thank you. Through you, chair, I am Janelle Barry, facilities safety and transportation coordinator for the district. We were able to go in that teacher's classroom, and we did some investigation and found that there, like, commissioner Wiseman said, is a valve that had leaked onto a ceiling tile just causing staining. There was no other evidence of black mold or anything like that. What I have reiterated to school principals is to make sure their staff is reporting any evidence or what they think is evidence of staining, molding, water damage, things of that nature to either themselves or the school secretary so that they can put it in as a three one one.

And from that point, we will do an investigation questionnaire that I will speak with either the principal or the staff member that has reported it, and then we will go through the proper channels with commissioner Weissman and his team on further investigating.

Fantastic. I love a good process. So this sounds like the right process. We don't it it sounds like a little bit of a mystery with respect to what this was before. It definitely doesn't sound like the the nature of the complaints that I was hearing from folks, but, you know, we need to get those three on ones in. So, we have that in place. This is a good a good news story as far as I'm concerned, and I'd love to see it tackle, you know, the next iteration because something will go wrong at some point. Commissioner Weisman.

Yeah. Thank you, chair. I do just wanna say that we will continue to, keep an eye on it. We'll be especially sensitive to any complaints about the Kennedy School, and we'll absolutely check out that heater and see if that's something that just need to maybe be taken apart and cleaned. Follow-up with that. Thank you.

Excellent. Thank you for your support. Really appreciate it. I don't see any other comments, so we'll go back to you, Chair Link.

Thank you, dear Baton. Yep. Thank you also, Christian Weissen. It's just it's great to actually see things get raised and then, addressed in a timely manner. It's fantastic.

So I really appreciate that. So we'll mark this one as work complete, I believe, then, and move on. Alright. So that brings us to agenda item four, ID 26Dash0710, that the commissioner of public works and the director of infrastructure and accent act asset management update this council and school committee about safety improvements to security cameras, enclosed square fencing balconies, and other infrastructure at the Arginziano School. I'm not sure who would like to talk about this. Richard Wiseman?

Thank you, chair. I'm happy to talk about the first parts of them. So our staff went on a walk through with Danielle Barry and school staff, to look at the issue of the cameras, as well as the enclosed schoolyard fencing. So we we took that feedback and are scheduling work for those two items. The these these issues were will both be dealt with after the school year. So the the enclosed schoolyard fencing should be completed before by the end of June, and the cameras should go in sometime this summer.

Great. So can I ask so I I saw the the submission for the the defense kinda diagram? My

rudimentary diagram. I apologize. Yeah.

It it got the job done. So I'm I'm curious when it says locking, you know, you know, double gate locking, so what what are we talking about what kind of locking?

Yeah. So so I I think this is a thank you, Chad. This is a a standard chain link fence, that will have double swinging doors so that, as necessary, vehicles can access the schoolyard. And then during recess, the staff will be able to secure the gate. And then the the the parts of the schoolyard that are not not marked as locking gates are just chain link fence between the the portions of the wall.

Okay. The I so this is this is one place I'm intimately familiar with because I'm I'm there every day with my my kids. So I'm so just to I just wanna double check that I'm already synchronized. So the the idea is, like, that these because the this playground is also where all the drop off happens, of course, that so, like, kids and parents would be able to get in and out freely in the in the morning and in the evening.

Yeah. Thank you, Trig. Yes. That is my my understanding. And then during recess, the gates may be closed.

Yes. Alright. And then my my only other, I guess, question on this is just the so that there's the twos so there's, I guess, there's one, two, three. There's so there's four fences that are just gonna be fences and no gate. I know that two of those like, it's they're they're kind of dead space. They weren't meant to be traveled through in the first place. The other two were actually meant to be points of of ingress and egress. Is it it's a little we're just kind of shutting those down, though?

That is yeah. Thank you, Chir. That's my understanding. Yes.

Okay. And then my my last question is are we so it's a chain link fence. Are we I guess I'm just curious. Are we I've got a a, you know, almost a five year old and a seven year old, and one of the things that they love more than anything is a good chain link fence to climb on. So are we, are we sure this is accomplishing what we want, and that we're not just gonna have kids on the the other side of the fence that we we have to chase down?

You know, Chair, I believe this is the the standard fencing used in our school yards.

Mhmm.

I don't think it's it's an unusual treatment around the schools, but I could get clarity on that if you would like.

Okay. Those, I think, are my questions. Thank you for for now anyway. I see a lot of hands up, so I'm going to hand it over to Chair Bachon.

Thank you, Chair Link. I'll defer to my colleagues first. So I see Laura and then Liz. Laura, go ahead.

Thank you. Through you. First of all, glad to see this exciting that this is going in sooner rather than later. I just wanna make sure I had it had an opportunity to see the diagram, but there are the at either end, there's the double locking gates. And then are there multiple single gates or just that one by the basketball? It's hard for me. I just see little red lines, and I just didn't know what those were.

Yeah. Through the chair. Sorry. Again, sorry for the diagram. We don't typically get architectural drawings when we work with fencing companies. But and so this is my understanding based on, conversations with, facility supervisor, Bohler, who conducted the walk through. I believe there's only one single gate. I could clarify that, though.

And may I to do a follow-up? And this is something that the district has seen and is comfortable with in the like, specifically the building leader, the principal in terms of what they're trying to accomplish?

Danielle?

Hi. Yes. So we have done approximately three to four walk throughs of this area to make sure that principal So to and her staff are completely happy with the design. And on our walk through on Monday, I think I probably asked her five times if she was absolutely positive this was the right fit for the needs of the students. So she is Thank you. Totally happy and totally on board. And we appreciate the fast response that we've received from DPW to come and meet us every time I call them and say, hey. Can we do this one more time, please? So we really appreciate them being on board.

That's fantastic. Laura, anything else there?

I have another.

Okay. Alright. We'll get back in line there. Member Eldridge.

Thank you. Through the chair. Quick question. In terms of the height of the concrete, like, that that the, fencing is being attached to, I'm not sure how tall. I know if if I'm remembering correctly, it maybe, like, varies in certain areas. Is there have we looked at that just to make sure that there isn't any, concerns about that piece of things?

Through the chair, I'm not sure the specific height of the different sections of the wall, but my understanding is that this was the desired desired layout.

Liz, do you have a follow-up?

A a separate question so I can get back in queue.

Okay. I actually have a follow-up on on that. Is the height of the fencing going to match the height of the cement wall?

Uh-huh. Thank you, chair. I'm not I'm not certain. I I imagine the height of the fencing will be consistent. If the if the wall undulates, I imagine, there'll be a uniform height to the fence, I would guess.

Okay. And can you describe the locking mechanism? Is it is it like a lock lock, or is it just a sort of closing mechanism and someone who wants to open it can just open it?

So, chair, most most fences have, like, a standard, closing mechanism that can be locked. I think, locking and unlocking that fence during the school day would be at the discretion of the school leadership.

Alright. That makes sense. We'll go back in order here. Member Patton.

Thank you. That was the start of my question. Thank you, mister Pitone. And my follow-up is I just wanna make sure that I understand. I'm assuming that at the end of the day and on the weekends, none of this is gonna be closed or locked. So that's just how all of our parks are set up. So unless that the principal during the school day locks it, it won't be locked.

That's my understanding as well, and that was discussed, that it would not be locked.

Danielle? That

is what we have agreed upon, that, principal So to will take the responsibility of closing her and her team, not just her solely, but closing the two ends during the school hours, and then she will in the afternoon at dismiss right before dismissal time, those would be open and would remain open until the following school day.

Alright. I'm seeing some nodding there, so we'll move on to the next question. Member Eldridge.

Thank you. I'm not sure who the best person to address this question is. I'm I know that there was a couple of open houses that were done this week for AIM families to come from Winter Hill and check out the new space. I'm wondering if there was any discussion amongst the parents just about the fencing in particular in terms of if they thought that it would meet the needs of their kiddos, and every kid has a little bit of a different profile. And, just wondering if that perspective was, if we solicited feedback from some of the families. And maybe you have that information, maybe you don't. I'm not sure.

Through you, chair.

Yeah. Go ahead.

I haven't heard any feedback as of yet. But if we do, we'll be certain to address that with the families and take their concerns into great consideration.

Okay. If I can also just, opine for a moment. You know, I think every kid has, right, unique needs. It's not just those in the AIM program. And so I hope the community, anyone listening, will understand that, you know, while elopement is a particular concern with kids on, with autism, you know, any kid can decide to take a run for it.

So, you know, if your kid is a runner, you know, I hope you're bringing that to your school leaders and make sure that they have plans to and systems in place to address that. And I'm positive they do because this is a common issue. Liz, did you have something else you wanted to add there?

Yeah. Just a quick follow-up. If families have questions or concerns or feedback or suggestions, where what is the best way for them to like, who should they reach out to? Is it, directly to the principal, or is there another best way for them to be in touch?

I would say the principal is the best way, and then they can direct their questions that they can't answer to the district.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Yeah. Of course.

Awesome. Member of Patone.

Okay. Sorry. Thank you. Through you. Did we did I miss something about balconies and what the status of the balcony?

No. You haven't missed anything. I I don't think we've hit on that yet.

So that's my question is just what's the status. I know that was something that may need some time design. So I'm curious where we are with the balconies. For anybody who doesn't know, there's, an a balcony with a fence that overlooks a space, and they were looking for more security there for students.

The public works does not have an update on the balcony.

No. Okay. So, hopefully, we'll have something in our next meeting.

I think I think that's a matter for infrastructure and asset management. There was some design and procurement processes being talked about here. So, Mr. Reish, if you have anything to add

to the chair. We, we're discussing we took a or I was out, but, Ralph Henry took a walk with principal So to and and Danielle last week, to get an idea of what what the ask is. We're continuing to, talk with the school administration around the specifics and decide if this is something that we want to move forward with, then we will need to hire an architect for specifically that. So we're we're continuing to evaluate, but this will certainly lag behind the, defense. But we'll, we'll get you an update for your next meeting.

Okay. So, yeah, we can flag that and keep this in committee for our June meeting. That would be great. Oh, miss Patton, go ahead.

I just I know that there was also security cameras mentioned. I don't know if that had any updates to that, if anything was decided on around I'm just trying to hit every piece on here to make sure that there's not something lag.

Tanya? I'm

happy through you, chair. I'm happy to discuss. When we did our multiple walk throughs, it was determined with the with principal So to that there is a need for three additional cameras, and DPW has committed to having those installed over the summertime break.

Thank you.

Alright. Appreciate all these updates and the collaboration, always. So we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

Thank you, Chair Bettone. And just to kinda close out around the the fences, I do have I there was one more question that did occur to me, which is just and I I don't think it's actually necessarily a DPW question, is you know, we're we're talking about these, potentially locking. It does got a little bit of anxiety around that because of the fact that we've got these bollards, and then we've got a lock. And this is the only side of the school that's actually accessible. On the other side is a train are the train tracks.

So if there ever was some sort of emergency where we needed fire trucks in there, I don't I I guess I'm I'm curious if we've if we've got the processes in place already, and if we've, you know, talked with the the fire department about how to make sure that we're we're keeping this as safe as possible in the event that's gonna be terrible. Has has that conversation happened? Miss Barry?

Through you, Cher. We so the reason why the design of the open swing style fence closure was chosen is just for that specific reason. Mhmm. We had talked about different types of, like, the chain link that rolls, but we thought that this would be the safest and most easily accessible way for the fire apparatuses to get into that area.

Okay.

So we're confident. And we have a solid plan with principal So to and her staff on how this would work in case of an emergency.

Okay. Yeah. Great. I just wanna make sure it wouldn't be just like because if they're very far apart Mhmm. If we've got two if we've got one person with, like, a set of keys for both things

Exactly.

That kind of thing. It's yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I I I I I would love it.

I would feel a lot better just knowing that we've talked to the fire department about it. And just so that even if for no other reason and that they know what they're what they'd potentially be dealing with. And I guess that's all I'll say about that. And then my my last little bit, is just to agree with, share of a tone in that, actually, this is really good for everyone, including, you know, the after school has had to deal with kids taken off, through some of those spaces, that I've seen, and I've also seen and both had the experience where, you know, kids ran out, you know, in the midst of drop off. So it is, while part of me is sad that it's like, oh, is it it's not as open.

It probably actually is better that it's not as open. So I do, I do appreciate that. Council site, I see that you've got your hands up on. I'll stop talking.

Through the chair. Thank you. Yeah. First, I wanna thank everyone for these updates and for the attention to this matter. My only question is, since there were multiple walk throughs, were were there any other issues that were identified besides what we're seeing, what we we have discussed so far? Only because the item says in other infrastructure, the school. Like, did we look at other areas as well during these walkers?

Through you, chair. Principal So to has not identified at this time any other issues of concern. If something comes up, we'll be sure to take a deep dive into it and make sure that all the students that will be attending in Genziano are in a safe learning environment.

Yeah. And that's absolutely the lens we need to be looking looking at. So it's exactly right. Sorry to interrupt.

You're welcome to interrupt at any time, Cherry. Alright. And I think that actually it's Alright.

Yeah. Member of Patone, go ahead.

Thank you. Through you. I just had a question, and we don't need to get into the minutiae of this, but I did which since we're on the topic, I'm just curious at for the AIM program at the Winter Hill, do we tend to lock the gate? I'm just curious about how often this locking is happening. Obviously or not obviously, but students who are were dysregulated might have a tendency for more elopement. But, I'm just curious because often in in playgrounds, you know, there's usually an adult near the gate, and that's another way to handle it. And I'm not judging, and I trust the the district to do what they need to do, but I'm just curious as a practice how we tend to handle.

Through you, chair, if you don't mind. I'm actually thinking, like, in reference to the Kapilano School and that playground setup where they just have the gate that has the closure latch and not doesn't actually have a physical lock. And then they have a staff member typically in the areas of the gate openings. So I would assume and imagine and can also, speak to principal So to about breath best practices around that, to have staff members located at those areas to prevent, actually needing a lock as opposed to just a fence gate closure. I think that would make a lot of people feel much better and at ease, give everybody a little bit of peace of mind.

And, also, just to go back real quick, I will follow-up with the fire department and make sure that they are on board with the plans that we have in place.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Of course. Thank you. And, if I can also just request that these plans also just get a preview to the CPAC. I think because there's been so much discussion in the community around these safety improvements, For there to be a voice from, special education families, I think, would just be an important sort of circle to close, just and, you know, sort of in line with the participatory requirement with respect to, CPAC and how it functions. So, that would just be my request.

Thank you. I got the thumbs up. Member Eldridge.

Thank you, Terrapateone, for bringing that up. I think that's a fantastic suggestion, and I I I believe the that community would really, really appreciate, just a quick touch base. My original, say I just wanted to say I appreciate how quickly everyone has addressed this issue and worked to come up with a solution. I know there's a a lot of concern and hesitancy around the movement from one school to another, and, like, I just I just wanna express my appreciation for how quickly we heard the issue and we acted upon it. And I know that's gonna ease a lot of general concerns, when it comes to, you know, making sure students have the opportunity to be safe at school, but then also, you know, use the outdoor play space and stuff like that. So so just really wanted to express my appreciation. Thank you.

And with that, we will turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

Alright. Thank you, So, I guess, it doesn't sound like we're quite done with this one yet, so we'll keep it in, committee for discussion. And that brings us to our final, item, item five, ID twenty six dash zero four nine two, with that the commissioner of public works discuss with this council practical solutions to clearing snow from schoolyards without damaging play services to allow students to access outdoor play areas.

So before we enter discussion here, if I could frame this for a moment. I I'm grateful for all the conversation we've already had in this context, I think earlier in the the school year, actually, where we had a memo from, then commissioner Lathan regarding the surfaces and, sort of the difficulty, which I think everyone acknowledges, and it's really helpful to have that enumerated. The reason this resolution is, worded in the way it is, right, practical solutions to clearing the snow without damaging the play surfaces is I think we all recognize the challenges. And, you know, our schoolyards serve an important function. Right?

They are the outdoor learning environment for our students during the school year. And, the surfaces that we install when we do our, you know, schoolyard renovation projects, one thing we need to be mindful of is what is the maintenance constraints of that. But the decisions we made in the past around this, we can't go back and change those decisions. We have the surfaces that we have. And so we have play surfaces for students to play, And many of these being several years old at this point, I'm thinking the, the warranty may be near, the end of its, warranty period or may have lapsed.

So this is all just to say when we do have snow events, it's really imperative that we find ways you know, reasonable snow event, right, few inches, that we find ways to clear the snow and make those surfaces areas where our kids can play and sort of move past, if we can, the challenges, which I I am very sympathetic to. So that's sort of the, perspective that I'm bringing to this, and I I really welcome sort of the chance to discuss this. So, thanks for hearing me out, commissioner Weisman.

Alright. Thank you, chair. I I think, like, it could be helpful to to, have Peaceoff talk about, like, why playgrounds are built the way they are, briefly. If you could entertain that to sort of talk about why we got here, and then I can talk about maintenance if you would indulge that.

Of course. Yes. Of course. Thank you.

So my name is John Bronkant. I am the senior public space planner, with the city of Summerville. Currently working on the Kennedy Schoolyard project, so very familiar with our schoolyards and, the work that gets involved doing it with it. So a little bit of background just on port in place. Sounds like you all are very familiar with it. It's a conversation that you've had, but just a little bit of background about it. In Summerville, our port in place is usually porous except in some crucial areas. So it's a lot of crushed stone underneath a thicker, coarser rubber, and that thickness of that rubber is dependent on the height of whatever place structure is. So however fall you can, fall from whatever height of that structure that determines that thickness. Then there's more decorative coating that's put on top.

That's that thinner crumb rubber that, you can colorize and do fun patterns, with and whatnot. So Portland Place is really the only thing that we can use in the city of Somerville. It is, the only accessible product that we can use. And just in our urban environments, it's really logically the only product that we have available to us both because of, MAAV, so Massachusetts Architectural Access Board, as well as our, CPSI review and ratings of our playgrounds. Port in place is really the only option that we have in our playgrounds, But we do understand that in our schoolyards, we need to strike that right balance of port in place to a plowable surface.

So in our schoolyards, you'll see a higher level of asphalt or other hardscapes, permeable pavers, those elements that we can pave, or those items that we can plow. And so we strike those balances. You'll see at the West Somerville neighborhood school, at the Healy, at the Brown, there's all kind of this balance of elements that we know can't be plowed during the winter and then elements that we know can be plowed. Maybe there's some, aesthetic repairs that we need to do to seal coat graphics, but it's something that we can accept knowing that we're not kind of damaging this other portion. These play spaces are able to be used about 95 to 98% of the year.

It's really these a few weeks in the winter, when we have horrible snowstorms this year, in particular, really kind of highlighted a lot of those issues. But that highlights that balance that we're always trying to strike in our playgrounds, to find that plowable space. Things like, creating access gates in our playgrounds so that plow trucks can come in and, kind of clear out the site of the snow. Other things like just simple snow storage in different areas and trying to figure out the logistics of how is a truck gonna turn around in this. I've worked with DPW to ensure that at the Kennedy School, you know, we can plow everything, and I practically drove a truck throughout the entire CAT plans to ensure that a truck can do all of these logistical loops and not really hit anything even if they're a little bit kinda walkie wavy.

So we definitely do try and figure out that. Albeit, there are some older playgrounds that don't have that as much thought and consideration into those spaces. But going back to the port in place and just manufacturing recommendations. So we can't salt it because it's a porous surface. The salt gets in there and kind of just explodes all of the the crumb rubber.

We can't plow it, because of that damage. It voids the warranty. The great thing is that these, manufacturers do warranty the playground surfaces for ten years, so we can go after them for warranties. And with this port in place being such an expensive piece of the playground, it's nice to be able to go after those warranties and not have to pay out of pocket for those repairs. So that's kind of why we really try and refrain from voiding those warranties at all cost. Speaking about warranties and maintenance, I feel like now would probably be a good time to hand it over to Eric to just kinda talk about the maintenance practices. Sure.

Thank you, John. I I wanna pause if there's questions for John before I jump in or if you want want us to just do our whole, routine.

I do I do have one question if you if you'll indulge me. That was really helpful. And the the period of of the warranty was really helpful. So we have ten years. And the consideration around snow clearing, you mentioned plowing, and salting.

One thing that I've heard as an idea and and then we've also heard about, you know, sort of parents requesting to go on, like, shovel brigades. I think, you know, are plastic shovels an option? And then what about brushing? There are, apparently some motorized brushes that can be used, to clear snow, and that's something that, mayor Wilson had mentioned to me anecdotally. I don't know if that has been investigated also. So, maybe that's under your purview, commissioner.

Sure. Yeah. Thank you, chair. My understanding is most of these manufacturers do not recommend, shoveling of any kind both their plastic or otherwise. And if I I just wanna, like, take a step back from the whole, like, warranty thing.

And, like, I I apologize if in the past that this was, framed as a warranty issue. Like, the reason that the warranty is worth mentioning is, the like, shoveling the you know, the warranty is in place so that, as John said, we can go after the contractor if there is a flaw with the installation or the product itself. And the reason that certain activities like shoveling, plowing, void the warranty is because the manufacturer believes that that that that that activity will damage the the material. And they they don't care, if we shovel. They just will not pay to replace or repair it if if we shovel.

And, when the warranty lapses, that doesn't change. It's it's still just the city that has to do the expensive repairs of of the material. So, like, warranty on, warranty off, that doesn't matter as much because, like, the the cost will ultimately be borne by the city either way. We should not be shoveling. We should not be plowing these surfaces.

And then even, you know, were we to to expend the labor for handwork, you would still need to likely salt the surfaces. Because, like, once like, when we when we remove, let's say, shovel out a bus stop, we still always have to salt afterwards because with a thaw and like, a thaw refreeze cycle, they'll you'll get ice or black ice on the surface, and then you'll still get into a situation potentially more dangerous where kids are slipping and falling and things like that. So, like, that's, like, an added, an added challenge of, like, handwork around it. So I wouldn't recommend and and, Somerville teachers aren't or families aren't alone with the desire to, like, go out and hand shovel to try to help, but I would re like, really caution against that. I think power brooms aren't recommended.

Occasionally, I've seen manufacturers saying that snow can be brushed off, but that's really just going to be, like, a light, fluffy, dry snow, which doesn't usually pose much of a problem to people playing on it anyway. It's like when you get to, like, the half heavy wet snow that's sticking to the surface. And then just, like, to just take a step back with our, like, our snow operations in general. And I think I don't remember under which context we discussed this, but we're gonna be working with the school department over the summer to really define, the different phases of of snow removal for each, school property so that there can be, like, a a a handy visual design for everybody or visual diagram for everybody to know, like, what are our priorities, what are the school department priorities for getting the schools open, which is really our, like, our goal with snow removal around schools. And then to to just, like, talk about the phases of snow removal.

Our priorities are public safety, including access to, for, like, public safety vehicles, and then maybe city maintenance vehicles, school operations. It it follows with safely dropping off and accessing and entering schools, then followed by, like, removing snow from parking areas where identified by the schools to get teachers and students in, and then finally, access to recreational facilities where appropriate. So, like, we have a limited amount of resources and time, to get schools up and running. And so those asphalt areas or the concrete areas, the plowable areas that John talks about really lets us quickly within that those constraints, get get kids onto the playgrounds. So, like like, our commitment as it is is to to do all those sort of safety operations things and then transition into the the recreational playground facilities, do those paved areas to get access into the schools.

And one of the things I've seen is that different schools, different school leaderships have different definitions of, like, what they're going to do with that paved area once we've removed it. Right? In some schools, they play on the port and place structure throughout the winter, and they're they they and they're they play on the asphalt. And another one's teachers park on the on the asphalt. And that's really, like, a decision that happens at the at the school leadership level.

That's not really something that that the department has control over. So, like, that that's just like sorry to throw a lot at you about snow removal operations. But, like, it it's really hard to imagine a a scenario where, like, given the all the other work DPW staff are doing and the re like, the the resources it takes to to, like, hand broom snow away, and then the the the downsides to that, like, when that would be appropriate versus not appropriate given the nature of the snow. It's hard to imagine a scenario where we we would be going and, like, hand brushing snow away around play structures after each storm.

Okay. Thank you, commissioner, for that explanation. And if I can just so it sounds like there's some coordination that's gonna be happening over the summer between imagine Danielle, you will be involved in those conversations with DPW. And my request from that is that whatever the outcome of those conversations, that each school leadership has a clear picture, even a diagram of what areas will be cleared and what areas won't be with, you know, sort of an average snowfall. And and then for the school leadership to communicate clearly to families.

Because I think what we're getting into is every year, we have we have, you know, at the first snowfall, big complaints from families about, oh my goodness. This area is open. This area is not open. My student is spending all their time indoors or, you know, needs to spend more time in this area or not that area. I think some expectation setting around that and an understanding that safety and, you know, safety is driving this, and it's not necessarily about voiding a warranty.

Because I think that you're right, commissioner Weitzman, that conversation has overtaken the conversation about, you know, like, a reasonable response to snowstorms. So Thank Thank you,

Chair. If I may, I think that's, like, a a really good point. And and I do wanna say, again, from what I've deserved, what I've observed, across the district is that there's not a consistent policy about playing in snow and that it that it that that is really up to the the each school's leadership. And and my sense is that sometimes safety is part of that conversation, but I don't think that's the only consideration that school leaderships, take when they determine whether or not kids play in the snow or not. Thank

you. I'm gonna go to, member Patton, and then we'll turn it

Thank you

for you. I'm sorry. If I could just make one more point on that. I'm sorry. And, like, I would say that, like, as a city, we do not close playgrounds when it when it's snowy. It that's not, like, a position that the city has taken that snow covered playgrounds are unsafe. I can guarantee that the playgrounds are being used with snow on them outside of school hours. So I think that's, like, an important, like, framing of the question. Like, snow on playgrounds is not necessarily a safety concern. Sorry.

Thank you. Laura?

No apologies. I appreciate the clarification. I'm just gonna make a note on playing in snow, and then I'll go into my question. I think one thing that sometimes people don't realize is playing in snow has a lot to do with clothing. And we have a lot of students that are not necessarily gonna have snow boots or snow pants or gloves.

And so, know, I appreciate the conversation about expectations and letting families understand that, you know, okay. You you were able to, you know, send your kid with full kit and full gear, and not every family in our community is able to do that. So I think there's there needs to be that sensitivity too, and I appreciate the conversation. I just had some general questions about you know, I'm no expert on this, but I've definitely been part of this conversation for a couple years. And I completely understand that there's huge trade offs having to be made because there are streets and sidewalks that need to be taken care of, and I understand that.

And I actually have to always compliment the city and DPW on the quality of the clearing of the sidewalks around the schools. I mean, just I'm always impressed at that work. You know, I just I wanna make sure though that, you know, I understand there's also questions about what's it worth to invest in. And my understanding is that, you know, there's different things that you can do on the Poly services, whether it's sort of pretreating them the same way we pretreat the roads with I know we were very excited about the beet solution, and there are other types of solutions that can be used on some of these, surfaces. Could be wrong, but that's my understanding to to help with, keeping, keeping the the snow and the ice buildup at bay.

And I don't know if that's something or if it's just a capacity problem that we just don't have the people and the resources to do it. And I I still don't quite understand the answer around whether or not you know, I I know I'm hearing that brushes, but I also read that brushes are used in a lot of modern places or poly edge plows. Like, my understanding is there is technology out there that I wanna make sure at least I understand that we've considered them. We're not doing because of the expense or because I do understand that snowstorms are such a huge undertaking to manage the safety of the sidewalks and the streets. So I don't know if that a a memo format would be appropriate, like, just something that documents all of this so that we're not always having the same conversation over and over again.

And we do it's great to revisit it because maybe some of this equipment one one of them was, like, battery battery powered plows or something. Or, even in newer facilities. I don't know if it's cost effective, but some spaces, you know, put in heating systems underneath the, the rubberized surfaces. And I know that's money, but, you know, I just always wanna make sure that we are being thoughtful, which I think we are. And I'm sure you guys are doing a lot of this work yourself, and we're sharing and being transparent with the community that we've considered some of these things.

Especially, I think the biggest concern, and and I really compliment John talking about, you know, trying to have some asphalt and soft surfaces so that we always have something for students. But we're gonna have some schools like the Kennedy that has a really small playground. We've already gone through the West that also has a really small space. And the new building at Sycamore Street is going to be a small foot smaller footprint for a lot of kids. So, like I said, my interest is transparency and making sure, like, everything has been unturned and considered, and we can document some of that for our commune

Excellent. Great points. We'll go to city council side.

So I guess my question is, can we get something documented? I just didn't get an answer.

Sorry. Yeah. I didn't I didn't pick up the question there. Just so so I'm I'm I'm understanding this. Like, you're looking for a document, like, an exhaustive document of of

I'm not looking for an executive document. I'm looking for something that says that the city has looked at some of these different things. They've looked at brushes. They've looked at liquid anti icing. They've looked at, you know, rotary brooms and poly Sure. Plows and, like, this is this I wanna make sure that we're having the narrative ready and that as thoughtful as you've been in this conversation, I want that document. And I think it's really helpful, at least for me on the school committee, so that I can share it at the bare minimum with colleagues. So is that an unreasonable request? Again, it doesn't have to be exhausted. I've never tried figure out what's on. Unreasonable. That's

And through the chair, I I do have some of that information just from the Kennedy School. I I, for my own knowledge, looked into, like, a heating system, and it's, like, millions of dollars and the amount of electricity that you have to run. It's like, you have to run it a day before the snow even comes so that the ground stays warm enough to melt it. So there's all those, like, incurred electrical costs. But I'm happy to work with DPW and kind of summarize our findings on those different surfaces so that we just have a document that everyone can refer to.

Yeah. And and just to follow-up then, it's also a starting point. So if, like, two years or three years from now, people are having these same questions, they can be revisited, but we've got a place and it's it's documented. Thank

And if I can just add before I turn it over that and especially with John on from, from PISOF, having the context of access, for students who have, you know, mobility needs or or something you know, having some of that, like, framing around, you know, how we're preserving or whatever, what our goal is with clearing the snow. It's so that every student can have access to some, and feel meaningfully included and a sense and have a sense of belonging. So, like, that that should frame and I'm not saying, like, you need to have it in the memo in that way, but, like, at least to to bring that perspective while you're considering that, would be really, I think, meaningful because a lot of these conversations revolve around those issues in the first place. Okay. Counselor Link.

Counselor, do you have like you could raise your hands.

Thank you through the chair. Yep. Thank you so much for this conversation. Yeah. This is, I think, the second time we're having this conversation with this committee, And I really appreciate member of Piton trying to come up with an action plan here.

And so, yeah, we have everything. You know? So we look at all these different aspects, have them documented, that have something to refer to every time. Now my experience with, you know, plowing snow and all that just in general. It is a capacity issue.

I've worked very closely with commissioner Wiseman here in my ward. You know? Like, we never know. Like, we we can get, like, really, you know, bad winter with, you know, one snowstorm after the other and ice and, know, get where to put the snow is, you know, having not having lot of snow farms here in our city. So so as we are, know, putting together that document that was just requested, and thank you, commissioner Weisman, for willing to look into this, Can we also look at who is it going for clearing snow in schoolyards?

Who is it? Who's gonna do it? Is it DPW staff? Are these going to be contractors? Do we have contractors that specialize in schoolyards?

I don't know. I don't know anything about this. It's just, you know, whenever we contract that work, if we're thinking about, you know, contracting out, if that's the only way to do it, to also make sure, you know, this would be, like, a good fit for, you know, yeah, these surfaces. So that's you know, because I'm trying to think about the bigger picture, which is, like, snow removal in the city and the issues we have run into in the past, which is what you know, this is contracted out, and you don't always get what you ask for. So so that's one request to add there as well is looking to who is going to do it.

Is it DBW? Is it contractors? If it's contractors, do we have contractors who are, like, specialized in this? And then and then you had, like, one really, like, simple question and just because I am I'm very ignorant when it comes to these things. So you, commissioner Wiseman, you mentioned snow removal. And then after snow removal, we we we you need to salt. Makes sense. Would using sand be, like, better, or is it kind of the same?

So through the chair, I'm I'm gonna guess what John's gonna say and that that, I I know that in the design of, playgrounds that they really try to keep sand features far away from the the rubber port and play surface because I'm about I'm about to use a dirty phrase here. It voids the warranty. And, like, I think the reason is that the that the that the grit actually, like, gets into the, into the surface and makes it not, perform as effectively, but I could be corrected on that.

Through the chair, you were spot on. It's actually a little bit worse than salt because salt can slowly dissolve, whereas sand will just sit in those pores and keep it clogged forever.

Thank you. Thank you for educating me on this. I just thought I would say it because it's something that was, you know, that parents were wondering about. And, yeah. And then the other thing I wanted to mention is, you know, how can we think about this creatively? It's like, would shaping snow for play be an option since you know I know. Again, it's just you know, we have some, you know, schools where kids really, really need to go outside. You know, they're younger. Is you know? And if it's, like, not bad, you know, if it's, like, fluffy snow and I don't know.

This is, again, just just an idea since there is no policy saying, like, snow outside, no going to the schoolyard. Yeah. It's up to principals and, you know, to make that call. So, yeah, again, just putting it out there if it's something that Yeah.

A service that

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm totally open to creative ideas. I'd also be really excited to talk to peers in the neighboring communities that are doing this. So if you know of schools where they are removing snow from these surfaces, I'd love to talk to those people, those districts, and find out how they're doing it because I love to to steal rather than invent.

Thank you. And then the last thing I wanna mention is, and member mentioned it, and thank you for that is, yeah, we always need to remember that not everyone can dress their kids for, you know, the cold weather, for below temperature weather, for playing in the snow. And, you know, I I really for that this specific piece, I really trust that our community can come together and help each other with that. And, yeah, there are so many creative ways we can we can do that. You know?

And it can be an effort, you know, between the city and the district to, you know, you know, provide like, I I if we get to a point where playgrounds are open, you know, after it snows, I hope this will not stop us from doing it. And we yeah. Like, like, as one member, I will really, you know, try to, you know, push for this because, yeah. It's it's it's just, you know, part of the school day and investing in our kids. So just wanted to add that.

Thank you, counselor. So I think I everything has been been pretty much said that that needs to be said this morning. The I did with, I guess, maybe one small tiny nitpick is that, you know, my I'm not sure that I I think the we were saying at one point that this, you know, the the school yards are reusable, you know, like, 95% of the time. I'm not sure that that's necessarily true. I don't know if we do we have the data to to to I I have to imagine that's impossible to actually have.

So through the chair, I I I was looking into number of days of snow cover on average in the area.

Mhmm.

And I I think it's something like twenty seven days a year, and I think that's an average. So it includes, big years and small years. And I think you know, I don't know how they define that, but I was trying to see that it it is a number like, this is a number that comes up because it's source of, ecological concern or climatological concern that, like, the the Boston area is actually or New England is the the amount of snow cover is decreasing faster than other areas in this area. So

And the the last thing that that kind of occurred to me is, you know, we we talked a little bit about, you know, like, well, we don't wanna if we clear, then we still have to do, like you we'd have to salt because it's it gets icy. But I do wanna just point out that when you got all these little kids running over, like, uncleared snow, the thing that happens is it all just compacts down, and it becomes really thick ice that lasts like, sticks around for a really long time and, is, I think, oftentimes more slippery, than something like black ice. So, I I don't know that that there's anything that we have done or potentially could do that's gonna necessarily undo that potential, danger.

Risk. Fair enough.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll move back over to Chair Patton.

Thank you, Chair Link. I I just wanted to build on some of the conversation you were just having. You know, I I sort of squinted at that 95 number too. You know, I think the twenty seven days is maybe more operative here, and and I think that's consistent with what we're hearing. You know? If you think about it, it's twenty seven days, it's essentially like, well, you know, what if you didn't have or you had snow cover for all of February? You know, it's a month without, without access to outdoor spaces, or without sort of full access.

Through through the Jared. I do just wanna to, to point out that we we do put a tremendous amount of work into clearing the areas that we do have. So, like, I I don't think that this conversation needs to be as black and white as,

like Absolutely.

Twenty seven days no access. We we do put a lot of effort into clearing as many areas as we can, and that is a lot of labor that my staff puts in. So I I do want to say that.

That is completely fair, and and and you're right. So, you know, I I I just I guess, you know, maybe there's just, you know, the consideration of of the staff's work and the incredible effort of DPW, which, you know, I think the community really needs to be grateful for, and the consideration of the kids who, you know, really do need movement breaks and the difficulty on that end. And it's really just, you know, both parties need to have that consideration. And I think we're there. So I appreciate you calling me out on that, black and white narrative because, that's not fair.

You know? So I just you know, I think we just need to continue to keep an eye on how things are going. And and I do think that the expectation setting that I sort of was my first question, will really help with kind of level setting and and allow people to sort of point to something and say, yes. We're in the hardest part of this. Right? February comes every year. We know it's coming, and and we'll get through it, but we sort of prepare ourselves for these are the areas we're gonna be able to use. These are the areas that we're not gonna be able to use, and we'll sort of go from there.

Yeah. Totally agreed.

Excellent. Alright. Yeah. Appreciation, counselor Lee.

Of course, mister Pashon. And I think that that you said it very well, in that, you know, I it would be an unrealistic expectation just to think that, like, you know, 100% of the space is just gonna be, like, we can just clear it all, and it'll look like it does in the middle of the summer. It'll look like in the middle of the winter. I think making sure that that both I think the the parents, you know, families, and the the staff, like, have an expectation, of of what is reasonable is, I think, really helpful. Like, what is and and by what is reasonable, I mean, like, what is what is practical both in terms of effort and in terms of dollars, and, you know, and making sure that we've got a plan to, like, to to do the best that we can with what we've got.

You know? And it sounds like I think we're I think we're pretty much there. I think it sounds like to me, if anything is really, like, the like, truly missing from this puzzle, it's just the maybe, the communication aspect, and that everything else seems like it's probably pretty close to there, if not there already. Member Patona, I guess. Okay.

I also appreciate what, counselor Saeed and counselor Link were talking about, you know, this idea of where can we help families? If we can improve our communication, I think that will be excellent. But I also think we can channel that energy into how can the community help the kids that don't have the right clothing. So, like, if a if a parent is complaining and saying, wanna go out and get a shovel, we say, great. You know what you could also do instead of getting a shovel is maybe work with the principal and see what you can do to support that challenge.

Because the more kids that we have outfitted properly, the the more likely that the principals will feel comfortable and possibly the teachers feel comfortable taking their kids out in the snow because as we all know, there's nothing much more that kids enjoy than playing in the snow other than playing video games. But, you know, it's a it's a closed second. So it just kinda dawned on me. It's like, obviously, there's this frustration, and I was one of those parents in the past. And, you know, I I appreciate counselor said, well, you know, how do we get this community together to help solve that problem? So, I mean, it might be a little Pollyanna of me, but it's just a thought. So thank you everyone, and I appreciate all of it.

Alright. See oh, had to get it in there. I'm so sorry.

No. Because I I really wanna yeah. Like, I I really like to leave with, like, an action always, ideally. So for that, is there anywhere here, like, maybe for the school department who can, you know, bring this idea to the principles so that they can maybe in their email communication with the parents, you know, before winter starts to be like, is this something parents are interested in? I mean, we all you know, like, if you're a parent, you know you know, those boots and snow pants, they wear them for one season, and then and they're very expensive.

Right? And and they know because, you know, you know, my my kids are really young, so I'm discovering all all these, like, groups in the community for parents and all of that. I know that already exists. There's a version of this already. So it's just a matter of communicating this to parents.

And if there are, you know, volunteer parents who would like, you know, to you know, that could take you know, start, like, the donation and, you know, coordinate that with the schools. And then yeah. So if that if if we can start that conversation before next winter and and then, you know, anything you know, if if we can't get all what we need, then what can the district what can the city do to help? So, yeah, if we can get the ball rolling, I guess, is my request here because, you know, I like to have an action something. Alright. Thank you.

We might be able to start with the lost and found. Seems like a pretty easy seed.

Yeah. Especially for the gloves and mittens. Yes.

So,

We'll go to Danielle first because she's probably gonna say what I wanna say.

So I am happy to work with the principals on getting that going. I think late October, early November would be a great idea. Like, maybe, like, around the Thanksgiving, like, thankful, where can people help because I know people love to be very generous at that time of year. I am also happy to continue to work with SFLC on they are a huge, huge help with serving our community. I the work that they do goes above and beyond what anybody really sees from the outside.

So huge kudos to that team, but I'm happy to work with both principals and SFLC to get the ball rolling on this.

And just on that, if I can add, there's also another group, MAMAs, that, you know, do this kind of work. And, yeah, if you're familiar with them, if you if there's a way to get them to also reach out to them. But, again, I don't know. This is just

I believe SFLC works closely with that group, so I'm sure that they would be able to get them involved as well.

Great. Thank you so much, miss Berry.

Of course.

I would also just, suggest coordination with the PTAs. I mean, the the principals for whom, you know, who identified this as as an access issue. PTAs are an incredible partner in each of our our schools. So and are always looking for for opportunities to, provide support. Laura?

Just quickly, I very much appreciate you, miss Barry, in saying that you wanna coordinate this. I also think that it's important from the district's perspective to consider culture in terms of if we wanna have a culture of getting our kids out in the snow, that has to be something that comes from leadership. And, you know, we're not gonna make every educator do things, but it almost it's like you have to have this mission and saying, like, you know, it's great because I do think there I know that there are family liaisons that do this work already in terms of trying to outfit kids. But, again, is the egg game? Is the district willing to say, you know, we're gonna be that district that gets our kids out.

As long as it's not unsafe, we are gonna get our kids outside, and we don't want the clothing to be a barrier. So I think there's something that has to come from the leadership too. So it's just a thought, and, of course, we'll bring that up at school committee too.

Liz?

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the discussion around the need for appropriate, snow gear. I think that's wildly important and is an access piece. I also just wanted to quickly touch again on the point that Chair Baton brought up earlier and the fact that, when it comes to students that have mobility aids, whether it be wheelchairs or walkers, accessing the area is impossible without a cleared space. And so we're looking at, you know, access challenges with clothing, but then acts like, physical access challenges of not being able to move in the space. And I just wanted to, just, I guess, bring that as a reminder that they can't even go into the outdoor space successfully without, a cleared area to be able to operate in.

Okay. So just to this was kind of a long discussion, and it sounds like a lot of it is actually kind of maybe not in the hands of DPW. But it does sound like there is being the request that we come out with some sort of memo just to kind of level set all of the different things that that can and can't be done and why they can't be done and the things that we've looked at so that we don't have to tread old ground next year when there's maybe a new person. And then, I guess, then there was a conversation, about doing things that were outside of maybe the scope of the the DPW. Commissioner Weitzman, I see your hand.

Sure. I was just gonna volunteer to to to do some of that, the report as part of the, the diagramming and to to, like, identifying the phases of snow removal operations at each of the schools over the summer. So maybe sometime in the fall, I'd be able to present that to this body or submit it to the council or the committee, and and you guys can determine the best way to accept it.

That would be wonderful. I just saw from someone that there's, from. You'd said that, a participant had their hands up. Alessimoni, can oh, attendees. I see. Kirk, can we so I'd like to recognize Pauli Simioni and, you know, sponsor her unless anyone objects. Okay. So no objection. Holly Simioni, you can talk, please.

Thank you, counselor Link. I hope you can hear me

We can hear now.

I apologize for jumping on late. But this is a very important access issue, And it was brought up because there are multiple students who cannot use the playground unless the snow is removed. And I know in the future when we have a new inclusive playground in the front, we will likely have the same type of, ground material, the the preferred safe rubbery material that the issue is that it cannot be cleared traditionally by snow blowing because it can be damaged. And the concern is that it would have to, I guess, be, like, hand brushed. And I I think that this item that was submitted, is a little broader than maybe as it's as it's just written here.

But I just wanted to elevate the concern about, you know, I personally, as a as a resident and a and a parent of a child in a wheelchair, that those soft, safe surfaces, are the most accessible and the most safe to prevent, you know, injuries to children who will fall having fun in a playground. But knowing that there's warranty issues with the type of equipment used to clear it, I, and I'm very pleased that we're talking about this before we get the next storm. What does DPW need, to be able to clear off the playground because and, obviously, our other parks in the city need to be cleaned of snow. So that's really what my question was about is how can can we make sure that everything is cleared for all the kids, when we get this great new playground? And maybe we'll have a mild winter, but, preparing for the next storm is is what I was curious about.

And and thank you, counselor Link.

Of course. So I think we did we we did kind of cover some of that, but I I don't know if Director Weisman, do you wanna, like, do, like, the the Sparks note version of of of it? Or

Sure, Chair. So so I get good to see you again. We we had a similar discussion in sustainability and infrastructure of some other snow removal things and priorities, but the DPW prioritizes access to public safety vehicles first and then operational access and then recreational areas when doing snow removal. We focus on the paved areas of every playground first because that is something we were able to do with equipment. Hand brushing all of the rubberized surfaces in a playground seems to be the only approved method for removing snow from, poured in place surfaces, and I'm not sure that in every storm that would be an appropriate, treatment given, like, the the wet wetness and density of snow at any given time.

So, with that being said, we are going to be looking at, snow removal as a whole from the the the the every facility in the district. We're gonna be working with the school department on identifying that. I'm not sure it's realistic to remove snow from every surface at every playground, but I think what we're going to come to is a clearly communicated plan for each school grounds and school yard about which areas will be cleared and accessible for kids to play. And Yeah. I hope that covers

Thank you, doctor Rosen. That was my my sense of where we're at as well. Okay.

And if I can just clarify that this just for, for miss Simeone who, I'm really glad she had a chance to join us. This isn't based on what Commissioner Weissman said earlier in this conversation, this is not being driven primarily by warranty. It's it's to ensure that the surfaces continue to perform effectively. So that was a clarification. That was really helpful for me, personally.

And, and maybe that SparkNotes version is maybe too sparks note version y, but I think it's important to sort of that I think we're kind of moving past the warranty sort of focus here, which is really helpful. And then I think Danielle has expressed to, that she's gonna be following up with communication plans and, you know, whatever the diagrams are, to better set expectations on the school committee side. So that's and much gratitude there too. So thank you.

So where how do we wanna leave this one? Do we wanna do we wanna mark this as work complete then?

I I'm fine with that unless someone has a particular item they wanna follow-up on.

I think we should mark as work complete, and then we'll if there's if we feel like we need to pick up more after any sort of memos or anything like that, then, come up, and we can do that. Alright. So let's please mark that as we're complete, and cancel slate moves to adjourn.

Alright. And we also need to approve the minutes as well.

Oh, yes. Forgot about the minutes for a second. Yes.

No worries. Okay. So on approval of the minutes and adjournment. Councilor Scott. Councilor Saeed. Yes. Councilor Lang or chair Lang. Yes. Excuse me.

Alright. With

that, it is 07:48PM, and we are adjourned. Thank you all.

Thank you. And I'll just say for the school committee side, I promised to have minutes for our meetings from the last two meetings. I have failed in that endeavor, so I will bring them up in the next one. We'll have a whole slew to go through. So we're adjourned on our side. Thank you. Paul.

And thank you again for your patience with the tech issues.

Glad we got it. Thank you very much.

Thanks. See you, guys.

Bye.