Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Like to call the meeting to order. This is the meeting of the Architectural and Historic Board of Review for Wednesday, 03/11/2026. Roll call, we do barely have quorum tonight. We have Ms. Kinney, Mr. Workley, Ms. Manco and myself. So we do have quorum and the meeting can continue. We'd now like to open up to public comment. This is a time when anybody may address the board regarding anything that is or is not on the agenda.

We'd ask that you keep your comments to five minutes or less. Is there any public comment tonight? Seeing none, we will move on. Consent applications, there are none tonight and so we will open old business. First is 2025 Dash 36133 East Streetsboro Street.

Yes, I can give a brief orientation to this. This is for window alterations for 33 East Streetsboro Street. This property is within the historic district. Staff notes the applicant received approval for Pella Reserve series style windows at the 05/14/2025 board meeting. Staff notes that the applicant received a denial for Anderson 200 series style windows at the February 11 meeting. The applicant is back this evening seeking approval for the Andersen e series windows. Staff notes the window proposal is for new construction and not for the replacement of existing historic materials. The applicant and the homeowner are here this evening to answer any questions that the board may have and I have also brought a sample of the window.

Can you just state your name and relationship to the application?

I'm Tracy Crawford and my father is Alan Savita and he owns this house that we're working on.

Okay.

Hold on one minute. Yeah. Sorry. All the minutes are done from the recording, so they have to be able to pick up your voice.

Okay. So the question is, is this vinyl or aluminum clad? This is an aluminum clad product from Andersen. It's all exterior aluminum. It comes in 50 colors. It comes mortise and tendon. This is our premium product from Andersen. This is not anything to do with Renault. This can be used as replacement or new construction. It comes with a nail fan, all aluminum clad on the exterior, wood on the inside. Is there any questions you might have?

So it's a aluminum exterior clad wood window. Correct. We're just not familiar with it. So with the historic district we try to be very careful about which windows we approve and how historically accurate they are.

Okay.

This window would come, you could either get grills between the glass or the simulated divided byte which is what this shows. It comes with, you can get a contoured outside grill, you can get a flat grill. I believe what was approved was what I call

a farmhouse look which was just basically a vertical grill on the top and a vertical grill on the bottom. So it

would be two lights over two lights.

Which I think was, that style was installed, the two two. Correct. Ms. Skinny, your thoughts.

I have a question. When the applicant first came, they requested approval for Pella Reserve Series, which is one of the three types of windows that have been historically, or I should say in the past, accepted in the historic district, right? So I'm just very, curious why you changed, and I know someone last time said because you did the project really fast, there's Two days. Yes, but I don't know who your project manager is, but whoever managed the project should have ordered those windows in time to do this.

I understand that. And

then last time you came, you wanted a window that is clearly not acceptable in the historic district, so I am a little confused about what's going on.

Why? Basically we're trying to stay with an Anderson only because those are Andersons that I have to take out and these would be Andersons that we're proposing. Question Since I have to eat the cost of that one, I'm gonna try to see if I can beat up these guys over the cost of this one.

So, but then why did you come to ask for a Pella Reserve series in the first place?

Honestly I did do that. Every house we have has fellow

reserve windows and I did

anything not for this house, it was done by a contractor and I was way behind the eight ball in finding out that that was not the window that they ordered. It was already in by the time I even knew what was there.

So they just told me

it was a wood window and I thought okay, that's probably okay, it's a wood window. Until Lauren contacted me, I hadn't even done the research to find out there was vinyl with that wood, I had no idea.

You didn't know that the shutters also were not wood?

Oh I do know that, those are coming down,

know that's late. Yeah, but that's

We already have wood shutters.

Yeah, that's very confusing. I know. So we're supposed to make sure that whatever comes up meets the standards of the historic district.

What we're trying to do is open up another alternative. I mean Anderson is a well well known product. This product would do very very well in the historic district.

And it has been used in other historic districts? Yes. For instance, Chagrin Falls.

Sure.

Okay.

I've used the Downtown Akron in historic buildings. We we we use it all the time in historical renovation.

Sheridan Falls has approved this one?

I haven't been on board to tell you that or not. I'm I don't recall the phone into this one. Okay. And I apologize. I

guess I think it be helpful if you could point out be similar to like a Pella Reserve or because we've never seen this window before and why it would be historically accurate.

Mortise and tenon joints, bottom rail, and sides, stiles and rails are architecturally designed. Like, we had architects come in and design the window. Comes four nine sixteenths, but you can go to two and two by six walls. 50 exterior aluminum clad colors. We can do different exterior trims to match houses of like nineteen ten.

I do have a kit to show you, but this house did not have any exterior trim on it. It was just a buck frame replacement. And then I I gave you a sheet there that shows the grill definition. We can do different grills, whatever it was called for on the outside, on the glass, whether it's contoured or a contemporary look. This is no different than the Pella Reserve.

It has a DP50 pressure grade. The screen would be on the outside of the frame. There's no difference really when it comes to comparison. Same with the Marvin UltraClad. Both all three windows are almost identical.

So what would be really helpful, since we don't know this window, if there could be a statement of other historic towns that have actually used it,

that

would be, I think that would be very useful. At least it would be useful to me. Because of course, you you say it's equal to the Pella or the Marvin, but if it is, obviously towns like Hudson have allowed it, and that would make my decision much easier.

Okay, I can get you that.

Do you see what we're saying? Because we're expanding the options that are acceptable in the historic district. So help us do that by providing some evidence that this type of window, this specific style of Anderson is in fact allowed, and in similar situations, that would be

Not a problem, can get you there.

Thank you.

Would you like that just in the state of Ohio or other, I mean

broader communities?

Anything that follows the Department of the Interior's preservation briefs. So the reason that we use Pella always comes up is because that is what the actual Department of Interior used when they did the Cuyahoga Valley and they redid the structure down there. So it's pretty easy, They're the ones that write the briefs and they said hey, this window is historically accurate. It just makes it easier for us to

I'm not familiar, is that the building that's on 303 at the corner of 303 Akron Cleveland Road, is that what that is?

Yes I think that is. They renovated it probably ten years ago or so. And that was the window that was spec'd for it because of its accuracy to historic materials.

And

so that's why that one always gets brought up. Okay. Ms. Workley?

Do we have any pictures of what the windows looked like prior to

New structure.

It's new structure. Yeah.

New building.

It's the building that's on the screen here. It was the ADU proposal.

Those are the vinyl windows?

Correct. Well they're a vinyl clad wood, Anderson vinyl clad wood instead of aluminum clad wood.

And the main house, is on this property, what kind of windows does it have? Because this is a little house to the right, right of the bigger house. Their pella.

So you're showing us this one as a replacement?

No. Well we'll replace the ones that are in the house but they're new windows, they're not replacement windows.

So they put in windows that weren't, you weren't at the meeting, they put in windows that weren't approved on the original.

Center vinyl.

That have a vinyl plaid. Think you missed the meeting but the board denied accepting the vinyl plaid windows.

Which we would.

And so they're asking to use this window instead.

Another non compliant.

Well I don't know that it's non compliant, I mean it's wood with aluminum clad, we have allowed wood with aluminum clad windows.

That's why

I'm asking.

I'm uncertain of its accuracy to historic materials.

Actually Nick had brought it up to us that there was an Anderson E Series window that was approved, but then when I questioned him on it, after the fact you sent me in there were just three and it wasn't Anderson and that's what started the oh this is exactly the same as the Pella, this is the same as the Marvin.

We have never approved an Anderson window in the historic district because honestly all the ones that have been submitted were like the renewal which is a fiberglass which is not historically accurate at all, or a vinyl window. So this is the first time we're seeing this one.

And that's why we're here. Would like to get an alternative to what is approved. This is a fantastic window. Anderson's been in business since when?

1903.

They're gonna be around tomorrow if you got problems with them. Mean, Pella and Anderson are competitors.

That's not really the issue. So, in terms of the material, it's aluminum clad and wood inside the way the Pella window is. So Exactly the the question that remains is, is it as historically accurate as the Pella or the Marwan UltraClad, and if it is, then give us some evidence from towns which have a historical center. I think for me that would be acceptable.

I would agree, mean honestly, the burden's on the applicant. Yes, To show that it would be historically accurate.

Right, and so that it can be added to the list of acceptable windows in the historic district.

Fabulous, that's fine. We can definitely do

Anything else Mr. Workweek?

We trying, is it on the same property as the other house, or is What this a separate is the profile of the existing house? These are flushed out in the face like it's a more modern install, and if the existing house has a recessed framed opening, I would rather it match that more like the historic character windows, because we've had people come to us, replace windows, and they don't, we're looking to match the profile of the historical window, which is inset, has a nice shadow to it, well that's the window, I'm talking about how it's inset into a framed opening where the shutters go on as well. But this one is, if you look at it, it's set right at the face like it's a replacement window.

It's not.

No it's not, but that's the way it's set, not inset like normal historical windows would be from the framing. Yeah, if you've got a picture of it, that'd be great. That's what I'm talking about. You can see how the frame of the window goes around the window when the window's inset. That's what I'm talking about. This one is out flush with the face of the framing.

This is the actual house on the front.

Yeah, I drove mine. Okay.

Be a would have

condition of how it would be reinstalled, not flush to the face of the trim, but recessed in to keep the profile of the trim, the windows inset, and then the window profiling.

So do you

want the

shutters on it?

It doesn't matter whether the shutters are on it or not. It's the window condition itself and where it's placed to the frame.

Shutters are a personal preference.

Yeah. Alright. Just

Yeah. You don't have to have shutters. You just have to be consistent in the application of the shutters. You can't have them on one window and not another.

I'm not trying to match, I'm talking about it being in context. To give you the context of what historical windows should look like, that is what it should look like. That is a more modern install and that's not what we're looking for.

I saw it.

From the time that,

yeah. Smaco.

I agree with everything that she said that the way it sits into the opening is my concern as well. This it's a lovely window, but there are certain reveals and that are in the Department of the Interior.

Okay so if we show that the Anderson Reserve or Pella Reserve I'm sorry that was approved and this is similar the way it goes in the opening the same. What this has is a nail fin that is supplied here. It sits back in the house and you nail the nail fin to the structure and then it's got shutters going around it or one by four or whatever you want it to. The Pella Reserve if I'm not mistaken is exactly the same.

It is. There's an inch and five I mean inch and a sixteenth from nail fin to the outside. So your siding would go here and the window would butt up to the siding or j channel or, trim, exterior trim. So all the windows from Pella or Marvin or Anderson start with a four nine sixteenths jamb if, if they're a wood clad window. The outside from the nail fan out is usually an inch and three eighths or an inch and five sixteenths.

There's no change from all manufacturers. When you're putting that on a house, you have to have room for your siding to butt up to the exterior of the window. There's no exterior extension jam you can put on a window. It's always done on the inside.

I can understand though what you're saying why it looks confusing because there is no nail fin applied to this.

That's what we're saying is it has to be historically accurate. You're talking about current modern installation. That is not what we want. Okay. We want historic reconstruction and install, which is not flush.

Okay.

So you either because everybody proposes a win to us, it looks the same, but then when it goes and gets installed, it's not the condition of the old window that has existing trim around it as well, that gives it the depth of that profile. That's what you also have to include. And if it doesn't do that, that's not historical aspect

of So you're asking for a picture frame look?

Yes.

So if we provided a cut sheet or whatever of the Pella Reserve, well you probably already have that, and a cut sheet that shows the similarity which is exactly the same of this window and provide historic background to the window, it would be acceptable to the board, architectural board?

I'd be okay with it, yes. Yep, I mean I'd be okay with it then.

All we want is apples to apples with what was approved.

That's fair, okay. Yeah we can provide that.

So why don't we table it? They can provide this stuff and I hate to do it but come back and April 8? Yeah, I think April 8 is the next, yeah. Right. Sorry.

Alright, we'll make a motion to table this to acquire the information.

Second. Alright, all in favor?

Aye. Thanks.

Or you can just leave it on the table.

Yeah, that

too. I'll just keep it here.

Next is 26 Dash 1516 West Streetsboro, and this is a ground sign.

Yes. This is for a ground sign for Deeper Life Bible Church at 516 West Streetsboro Street. Staff notes this application was continued from the 01/28/2026 meeting. The board requested the ground sign to be redesigned so that the face is placed on the solid base. Additionally, staff notes that the applicant has revised the ground sign design for the board's consideration and staff's comment was question if the design could be modified to conceal the gap between the sign panels of the monument sign. The applicant is here this evening to answer any questions that the board may have about the new design.

If you just state your name and relationship to the application.

Yes. My name is Kevin Holiday. I'm with the sign above and I am the salesman working with Deeper Life Bible Church. I

think really the staff's question on that was when yeah in this detail here, shows the red lines which I assume are showing the edge of the actual

sign.

And I brought a sample with the matte finish like requested last time.

Okay. But I think my question on it was the piece in the center, is that flush with the sign? Is there a piece that overlaps the two panels so that they're less visible? What's that side gonna look like with the two panels? They're just gonna be sandwiched on there?

Yeah. They're going to be mounted to those posts that are existing. And I would cut that those posts down to size. So in that rendering, I have the post cut, so that's approximately how it will look. Right now that post is taller. And yeah it would be sandwiched so each sign would be on the post.

But does the post come all the way out to the edge of the sign or is it like is it set back? Is there a gap there? Like what what is that edge profile of the like we're looking at it here, is that all flush?

Yes. It's all flush.

Okay, so

the post is

I measured the distance from outside post to outside post and that's what I made the width of the sign.

That was more of my question on it. Miss Kinney? That's why

I had to increase the width of the sign from the original drawing because it was gonna go inside of the post but now that it's going on the post I got the measurement of outside to outside.

Miss Kim.

Further comments.

No comments from me. I will make a motion to approve as submitted.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Anybody opposed? Alright. Thank you.

What about the other sign on the building?

That one was already approved at the

What?

That was staff's interpretation at the last time because it was reduced and it met the board's qualifications from previous.

Okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. Cool. Alright.

Because that would have been the second iteration that came back and the board was okay with that one because you moved it in and it didn't overlap the trail

on the I shrunk it down four feet. It was two eighty eight wide, now it's two forty wide.

Correct, yep.

Yep, that was good enough.

Cool, alright, thank you.

Alright. Thanks. Next is 2025 Dash 147888 North Main Street and this is a door replacement?

Yes, can give some background on this. This was for a door replacement for Kefner's Tavern at 88 North Main Street. The applicant did reach out and request an additional extension. They were not quite ready to come back with their manufacturer so staff's recommendation is to continue to the April 8 meeting which they have confirmed that they can attend.

I move to table this application.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Last on all the business is 2024 Dash 195172 Aurora Street and this is door and railings.

Yes, some brief background here. This is for alteration for 172 Aurora Street. This property is within the historic district. Staff notes this project did receive board approval at the 05/08/2024 meeting. The applicant is requesting a modification of the original plans which includes the installation of an additional door on the south side of the existing detached garage and additional railings in the rear yard. Staff comment were to note that the proposed metal cable railing system appears more contemporary in design and is not consistent with traditional historic railing styles and to question the proposed metal railing material and the overall design. The applicant and homeowner are here this evening to answer any additional questions that the board may have.

Can you state your name and relationship to the application?

Thanks Lauren. I'm Justin Capello with Sojourn Architects representing 172

Aurora Street. Dave Morehead, property owner.

So we just go over the changes.

Sure, yeah. So the quick easy one would be the back door, just swapping out that window the window that's already there for the door. Six panel door, header side details, header detail all to match all the existing house, all of that. The railing,

we were

trying to go for something that was a little more, like see through for back there for around the pool area that because the railings technically aren't required for such a small distance, it's just, it's more of a safety thing

and we're

just trying to get them to

this here a little bit more than having all

of the vertical rod iron. Miss, can you,

questions, A comment would be they do look very modern compared to the house and I was wondering if you couldn't find another type of railing that would be more in keeping with the style of the house? Because they do exist that are not as visible as what you're trying to avoid, right?

We put these in we actually put them in last summer for safety. We found, my wife in particular has a hard time going down steps. And with the kids in and out of the house and the going down to the pool, we put them in. One of the things that it's a casual look versus what we have out front. Our yard is fenced in by a six foot board on board that you cannot see through at all. We're all the way around. So when we put them in, it wasn't to try to be different than what we had out front. It was more to create the casual atmosphere that we have back by the pool. There's a swimming pool all the way around there.

So it's not a proposal, it's something that has actually already been built.

The rails coming out of the porch have been built, the rails going down to the pool are installed. The whole idea

was like if they

don't even attach to the house It just bolts to the, just one post bolting to the stone versus with different style is gonna have more newels that are even bolted in. So again, it was just a simpler safety situation scenario. Technically we don't even

need them,

we could just take them off. You know what mean? Because

they're not required by code.

Is there structure below them or are they surface mounted? They're surface mounted.

What's so nice and light about them, can just bolt to that to the stone floor. They don't even have to attach to the or embed posts into the ground.

We found last summer when we were using the pool, when we would take stuff out, kids would take it back in front of the garage and it sat out in the driveway. And to us it was an eyesore. I think anybody that's driven by, we try to do things the right way. Honestly And it bothers me that stuff sits around, so we wanted to put the garage was built so the storage is in the back of the garage. So I'm sorry I didn't do it in the beginning, put a door in the back of the garage quite honestly because it was needed there.

Anything we take out from the pool, we can take out the back door. It's never seen because again we have the fence around the yard. And again, we put this in purely for safety for her going down the steps and the kids going down the steps.

It's an ad. As you can see that detail, there's two bolts that screw into the stone. We would never present this for the front of the house. We understand it's a more modern look.

And you can't see it from the front at all.

You got two types of fences, right? So adjacent to this is also a metal fence, a black metal fence.

Yeah, across just across the opening to the elevation.

The bottom line or that one too, yeah, whichever.

That's That's across the front between the garage and the house.

I kind of feel that that kind of mimic the vertical of the railing. So it's not out of character for the back area. It's just that and this fence wasn't there, I wouldn't have the feel that there's kind of something there that

it ties to. Continuity. Yeah.

The thing that I question in terms of the layout is the garage door. It just feels weird to have the circular steps and the angle railing go up to either side of the door and the stuff behind it is not there. Could it be squared off and make it go straight in or something like that?

Actually if you look at the pictures of the ones in the front, those aren't really circular, they just we had steps that came out.

Is there a picture, I think there is.

Yeah. Those steps actually, let me think.

Yeah, one of those. Actually Lauren, I think it might be better in that, just above that one highlighted. Try that one, I think that shows it.

Yeah, on those. So it was

just the edges that were rounded.

So it comes out, it angles basically. It goes across one step then steps out, the next step goes around.

Well I understand the one that you have already installed that's perpendicular to the door, but the ones in back that just are wedged goes up, they just feel weird. If it was perpendicular, one perpendicular

to did the door exactly the same as what we got going into the back porch. That was the plan. I'm sorry, think

what Mr. Workley's saying, where

we have the steps that go down to the pool right now

just being straight if we squared it off and did a railing down each side of the door instead of making the steps wider. So match that detail there in the upper photo.

Just have one like they do at the current door, whichever. The two that come in at an angle it just doesn't, it just feels contrary.

We can square that up and run the railing straight up to

the door.

That makes sense. Alright, that's all I have.

Mako?

I didn't like them until you actually zoomed in on the and I do see a correlation now with the black and the black higher.

Yeah, I'm fine with them. I think they're used in such a small section. They're so short. It's almost like an accessory. It's not really a fence or and it's it's Yeah, doesn't give you the feel of railing for steps. So I'm okay with it. I yeah, if we just kinda, and I do agree with the kind of the spanning out on

Yeah, it's kind of elaborate for

the back of the variety, got it. Straighten it up.

It's a little much. Okay. Alright, I'll make a motion to approve with the modification of the railing on the back of the garage to be coordinated with staff.

Second. All in favor? Anybody opposed?

All right,

thank you.

Yes, appreciate it. Have a good night. That

is all for old business, opening new business. First is 20 Five-fourteen 8733 Roslyn Avenue, and this is an accessory structure in the historic district.

Yes. This proposal is for a garage renovation and a detached garage. Just some some brief staff comments here. The architectural design standards state that details in a wing must be consistently applied throughout the sides of that wing. Staff suggested the removal of the proposed shutters on the great room south elevation to meet this requirement.

There were no other shutters on the other sides. So staff just made a suggestion to remove the shutters from that elevation. Additionally, to question the introduction of gable returns on the garage west side elevation, staff notes that there were no gable returns on the existing house. Additionally, to incorporate additional fenestration on the garage east side elevation to meet the fenestration requirement and question if the proposed garage door on the west side elevation would be centered under the new doorway. Staff did request to submit additional product spec sheets of all proposed exterior materials and notes that the elevation state that the proposed materials will match the existing siding and the the arc board will determine the appropriateness based on the age of the home and existing materials.

The applicant is here this evening to answer any additional questions that the board may have.

Can you just state your name and relationship to the application?

Steven Cochran, I'm the builder.

I'm a

Blackmon homeowner.

Do you get a chance to review the staff comments? I did. Wanna address them?

Well, so on the gable roof, are you talking about because there's two gable roofs on the front face, the west side of the garage, the new garage?

Let me go to it here.

Sorry. Which comment was

can you start, you know, with comment a about the shutters and so that it seems better for

us to follow them while we're waiting. We're okay with those coming off. Yeah.

So we're removing

the shutters. You're okay with the suggestion of staff right to remove the shutters. Okay Okay,

the only the only thing I did want to ask about that, though. The whole red if you look at the side of the existing house The whole rest of the house has shutters on it.

So it's goofy, the way the code reads though is it's how it's applied to that wing. It's kind of a Okay,

that's why I had to ask, Just in case.

Because we'll

keep them or take them off, it doesn't matter to us.

Yes. That was was staff's interpretation that this would be considered a wing and there are no shutters on the other sides of this wing and just shutters added here. So the options would then be to you can remove these shutters or if you add shutters all the way around it, it doesn't matter. It's just needs to be consistent around this this wing.

So we'll just take them off.

Okay. The plane of that garage is so far back compared to the plane that has the existing shadows on it.

It's not That's the wing, it's almost like a breezeway in the center but there's not. It's okay, that makes sense to me. So that was, yes we could take those off, let's do that.

And B was the Gable returns.

Yes, are we talking, when I'm looking at the front, I'm confused with what happened here. I So, that that covered roof had to come off due to some spacing between the house and the existing house and the garage.

The staff comments weren't that it needed to come off, just needed to maintain a minimum five foot distance from the existing house. So it just needed to be moved back. It wasn't a comment of of asking the applicant to remove those. It was just a site plan issue that needed to be adjusted.

So that could stay then? Was it?

Yeah, that would be between you and the board on discussion of the approval. But staff's comment was not to remove that out, it was just to scoot that garage back so it maintained that five foot distance between the main house.

Yeah the comment b is about so in this detail here, elevation, you have gable returns, but nowhere else anywhere on the house does it have gable returns. Generally, we look to have accessory structures that don't have greater detail than the main house. It should be subordinate, Adding gable returns would be adding greater detail to an accessory structure that isn't on the house itself.

So if we removed that little curtain air going towards

the garage door and just cut

that sight line to keep the roof over that door going in, would that be acceptable?

You talking about the kickbacks at the soffit?

The end.

Okay. Took that one

off over It's the rake detail where it comes down and widens at the soffit. Like on the rest of the house, it's a siding reveal to the same ridge line it comes down. This is the proportion of how much overhang you're doing? No, it does it right in the front corner. Is someone on that corner right where their hand is? Yeah, so see how the rake board comes down and goes right to the gutter line?

Yeah, it doesn't have like the little birdhouse section off to the side there?

Yes, that's right.

So just eliminate those on the garage. Okay, no that's totally doable. I think the architect was just trying to make it look a little fancier,

which would be

It's supposed to be subordinate. That's

whoever nixnate those and send the drawing in with those off.

A little less aluminum that way too.

And like, okay. Yeah. Makes sense. That's what was trying to understand when I was reading it, was like wait a minute, I wanna make sure I'm thinking the same thing.

Yeah, it just becomes a simpler detail then.

Straight line. Yeah,

just a simpler detail. Okay. And then yes, it was on the Is it on the rear? Yes. Right, so yes.

We need two windows there. Yes. I was talking about it, I was like, it's a six foot roll and no more than 12 feet?

Yeah, it should not be greater than 12 feet between fenestration.

Within six feet of the corner. Is that true?

No, don't, that's not. It doesn't matter? For our purposes, no, not for architectural purposes.

Okay, I just wanna make sure. So it'll add two double hungs on the back. Okay.

You can do one if you're not more than 12 feet to either end. I forget what the overall width of that side is.

Yeah we could do that, that would be less than 12 feet corner to corner.

You could do one that was centered under like a three foot by whatever.

We'll put one in the back.

So

I had a double hung with the same detail as all the rest of the windows on them.

Yeah, okay.

Oh the door on the garage on the west elevation. I don't if it's a drawing error, but when you look at that door compared to the peak on that gable, it's not centered. It's to the right, it's skewed, it may just be a drawing error, but it's skewed to the right.

And I think it's either a drawing error or

the way

the structure returns there, there may be like three inches of siding in that corner versus the full thickness of the wall on that left side, so it may not be quite centered.

It has to do with how you did the rake drop too, so I think if you take that away you make it the same over here, and you don't show corner boards, so I think the corner board would make it mimic the column and you can align

it that

way, I think that's what the issue is. Okay.

It's really just the drawing, the way it looks.

So we'll get the door centered under that peak?

Yeah. Okay.

The house has corner boards, it should match the same as

the house.

So the

outside, is that where the last section's the finishes? Yes. So the outside of the existing house is vinyl siding. I found that it's an all side siding. I found the color. House has white corner posts on it. So the garage will obviously have to have white corner posts. So we're gonna be copying the existing house. Has vinyl windows. They're all double hung, no grids. So I found all side vinyl with an ailing fan for new construction because the windows had been replacement windows originally on the house. So we can't really do a replacement window on new construction. Add the window to match the trim on the house, which is aluminum clad.

So you're doing everything to match the existing house?

Yes. Shingles and all. Okay.

The historic district is not contributing to do a different material within the house on a wing would not make sense. Domenko, Okay. Any issue? Okay.

So I move to approve with the understanding that the shutters on that wing will be removed, that the gable returns will be removed.

Removed.

Yes, okay. And that one or two double hung window will be added to the back so that the fenestration requirement is met, that the door on the garage west side will be centered, right, and that all the materials will match the existing house, those of the existing house. Did I forget?

I think you got

it all. All

in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Alright, thank you. And then you just work with staff on submitting the details and that.

Yeah, I'll send the architect, clean that up and send it in. Perfect, thank you. You guys have a good night? You too.

Next is 20 Six-seventy 5170 Elm Street, and this is a door replacement in the historic district.

Yes,

this is for a door replacement on the rear of the home. Staff comments here, the secretary of interior standards state that deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature. A new feature shall match the old and design color, texture, and other visual qualities. Staff just noted to verify the existing door material of what is there now compared to what is being replaced and then also notes that the sliding fiberglass door is proposed and then the proposed sliding glass door does include simulated divided lights with internal grids. The applicant is here this evening to answer any additional questions that the board may have.

You just state your name and relationship to the application.

Ivecon Design Consultant with Renewal by Andersen. So

you saw the staff comments, would you like to address those?

Well, firstly regarding repair, I can say what's in place right now is a commodity steel door that's rusting. It's an in swing door which creates some difficulties for interior furniture arrangement. The room that this opens into is very shallow front to back as one faces that door from the inside. So the hope is to change the design to a sliding door so that the swing of the door doesn't encroach into that space and make it more difficult not only to transit but also to arrange furniture. Regarding the door itself, once again, it it's the existing door is a commodity steel door.

I I don't know the history of the property or how exactly that was approved at the time.

I guess my concern would be, if I believe, if I'm correct, this is a cedar shake is what the house exterior material is?

That's correct.

Adding a slider I think would, I don't know if we've ever approved a slider in the historic district for a replacement especially when you have an in swing door already existing.

You may not see it in these photos. I do have queued up on the tablet. There is a sliding door that the homeowner uses in the same view as this rear door for primary ingress and egress. I'm happy to present that here if there isn't a sufficient photo there.

Yeah, don't know if we were sent that one.

May I bring this up?

Sure. Okay.

Okay.

So what we have here under the covered porch is a sliding door that the homeowner uses for ingress and egress currently. You can see that okay. That's it right there to your right.

The one under the porch? Correct.

Do you need to see it closer?

It doesn't have a It's just

It does not. It's just plain glass.

Excuse me, your thoughts? So

the picture on the right is what you proposed, right? Correct. It looks like the proportions are different, that it's much less high than the picture on the left.

Correct.

And that, I mean in a historic district that looks again very modern. On the left, why not keep the proportions that we have on the left and with the same grid pattern?

That could be done. I would also note the homeowner, if I may approach again, has a door that enters the primary bedroom suite. The homeowner has a door that enters the primary bedroom suite with somewhat similar grids. The doors are much more narrow as you'll see in this photo. This doesn't show the complete door but I think it'll give you a sense for what's in place there at the back of the house.

Can you see that okay? Okay. So I think her concept was that the wider Susan pattern could be more consistent with the more recent work on that particular door.

How old is the house? What's the

do you know? I believe it's 1940s, but I would have to verify that.

So you just showed us, seems like they're just French doors that mimic this door more so. Instead of having three lights,

When you say three lights, could you put more words around that?

Yeah. If you go back to the existing

Just zoom out a little so they're

side by side.

It's a three panel window.

Three across?

Yeah, so you have essentially two side lights and the

other one window in room. That comes out of their bedroom is two and two, so it's a lot vertically. Correct. But it has the same proportions of frame it as the existing. And you're proposing something that's more modern, very thin line.

Correct, this is actually this is the door right here. It is a wood door and it would have essentially a baked on painted finish And it is a narrow profile.

Do you have something that's more like a French door look that slides?

We do.

And the historic district.

Franco?

I don't have any other questions either.

Would like to see what that would look like?

Sure. Okay.

Additionally I was able to confirm according to the Summit County it was 1953 when this home was constructed.

Okay, 1953.

I'll ask for the mic. Yeah. Sure. Wire me up. So this is a rendition of what the two of the three panels would look like with the French door style sliding door and the same grill pattern.

You see that okay? Now the construction is essentially the same, however the stiles and rails are considerably thicker in the proportions that you see here.

Right, think the board would rather see the second one that you just showed us as the door as opposed to the one that's submitted here.

We would take rather as a directive.

Yes. If you are willing to submit that one as an alternative, would probably get approval tonight.

I would so submit, subject to the approval of the homeowner.

Alright. Was there a name to that new, window versus

We call it the Anderson a series.

Motion to approve with the Anderson A Series to be coordinated with staff on acceptance of the client and if not, then turning for debate.

I second.

All all in favor?

Aye.

Anybody opposed? Okay, so just submit that version of it to staff and you should be okay.

So we need a visual like that, excellent. Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you.

20 Six-one Hundred 241731 Norton Road, and this is the demolition of a single family home.

Yes, staff notes this is for the demolition of a single family home and detached garage as well

as a

shed. Staff notes the house and detached garage were built in 1953 and the applicant is here this evening to answer any additional questions that the board may have.

Just state your name and relationship.

It's Tony Leonardi with LDA Builders.

So think really the only question is, so you're not willing to renovate and keep the house and garage on the property? Correct. We have to ask.

I thought about doing that, actually that's why the house has been sitting, I was actually planning on doing that, maybe adding and remodeling in just such bad shape. It's got issues with the foundation. You know, it's got a short foundation, so when you walk in the basement, you're 10 courses or something like that and it's just in bad shape.

So really our only finding is if it does or does not have historic significance is really all that we're here for tonight. Ms. Kinney, do you find that it has any historic significance?

Not that I could tell from the pictures.

Mr. Workley? I

agree it does not have significance.

Senko. I don't see anything historic.

So there is some verbiage that has to be read as part of the motion if somebody would do that.

So I move to find that the structure does not have any historic or architectural significance and that we find that the application for a permit to demolish the structure will not, that doesn't work. Has

to The be applicant.

The applicant, yeah, okay. Will not consent, voluntarily consent to the retention of the structure. So one, it has no historic nor architectural significance and two, the applicant does not voluntarily consent to the retention of the structure.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Alright, thank you.

26 Dash 6022 Essex Circle and this is an addition.

I guess a brief background on this one, this is Circle. For a kitchen, master bedroom, great room, and screened in porch, staff notes that the proposal received informal review by the board at the February 11 meeting. Just an additional staff comment. Section four of the architectural design standards state that all roofs and all the wings must be of the same shape as the main body, but they may be have they may have a different picture orientation. Roof shall not intersect a wall as to cause a valley. Staff notes that a significantly large flat roof is proposed along with hip roofs as the existing house has clipped gable roofs. Staff understands the board determined the rear gables as compatible however notes the proposed flat roof is in conflict with this requirement. The applicant is here this evening to answer any additional questions that the board may have.

Good evening. Nate Bailey from Parrot Architects, 10 West Streetsboro in Hudson, Ohio. Yeah, so we were here last month for the informal and some just revisions to point out. Try to sit, I usually go mobile but I'll try to sit for you guys. So from the front, great news, we have eliminated that portion of brick that was climbing above the front door that previously was kind of creating an asymmetrical condition on the front, we want to continue the siding, we almost just gonna say fix the glitch, continue the siding across the portion of front door.

As a part of that we are replacing all the windows in the house, I believe we submitted, tonight's the night for Andersen Windows, we've submitted an Andersen, I believe it's the aluminum clad wood window, apologies, I was partially listening to all the Andersen window talk. So throughout the entirety of the house and that's kind of the, we had discussed it with the board which just said hey we weren't sure if it's in the budget with the homeowner so at this point it is. Other feedback we received from the board was as we turned the corner on the additions you can see previously we were showing a taller water table with the brick veneer and the board thought it might be a bit stronger of a move just to let that brick cover the foundation, match the foundation heights but then let the rest be siding which honestly was a win for us partially because we're trying to find ways to engage that but the brick is kind of an orangy tannish color and yeah. So we liked that feedback and took that and incorporated that as you can see here. Those are most of the comments made from the last one, if you want to jump to the back you can just see some of the development.

One thing we did do is the clipped roofs on the existing house right where Mrs. Kaufman's cursor is, the board had noted that there was similarities and parallels between that portion of clipped roof and the roof bump I'd call it that we were using where the doors are that feed off the, on the left is owner's suite, on the right is great room and so we just, we made sure based on our field verifications that those were the same exact pitch so that there is consistency between, we wanted to make sure that that was a strong relationship per the Boyd's comments. So that was the third move I believe. And then the last thing, previously the screen porch was just the center portion between the two gables, can see it's with the dark cross hatching. The clients were considering more of a timber look there, convinced them that given the trim that we're incorporating on the house and on the moves on the existing house that that would look better if it was just a wood post wrapped with an AZEK.

So it'll be painted out white, it'll match the trim on the house, so it kind of creates continuity we'd say between the two strong roof forms we have either side. So I think those are some of the moves made and we're just back for formal approval or conversation with the board.

Miss, any questions or comments?

Well, the question has to do with the flat roof.

It's something that we have approved in the past. It's kind of on a case by case basis. I think at the informal we kind of said that it's between those other two and it's relatively obscure. I personally don't have an issue with it, don't think Mr. Workley had an issue with it. Yes it would be making an exception on the rear of the home for that flat roof.

To Mr. Caputo's point, the house sits elevated from the street probably eight feet or so and then if you just wanna jump to a final elevation if you'd like. But obviously what we're proposing is in, not inferior, but aligns or is less than in height to the existing house and so that roof would be largely invisible until one was standing in the backyard or perhaps on a winter day through some nuts' backyard.

Comments from me. Ms. Jacob?

Any additional comments from me?

Motion to accept as submitted. Second.

All in favor? Anybody opposed? All right, that is all for new business. Under other, we do have an informal tonight, 8537, which is 258 North Main Street, and this is an historic district.

Yes, just a brief background, this is an addition of a bedroom, bathroom, office and three car garage. You have the staff comments in front of you, staff noted possible massing issues and overall design and additionally to revise the elevations to depict conditioned foundational height and water table around the new addition. You also have preservation brief 14 linked in the agenda for easy access for you all and the applicant is here this evening to discuss this project as well.

Thank you. Nate Bailey, architects, 10 West Streetsboro in Hudson, Ohio. Is there any chance I'm sorry, miss Coffin.

Can I

have the mic? Absolutely. Thanks. Yeah. So is there any chance you could jump to the photos?

Yes.

Just wanted to kinda work through those for a second. And we could just start on the front. This is great. So 258 North Main. We're we're, you know, just up on on North Main. And this one's an interesting one, which is why we're interested in, you know, soliciting feedback from the board at an early point in time. We've been very clear with the homeowner to date just that this is interesting because this is obviously the existing house. It's of an age in character and history. And there's a series of additions that have occurred over the years, none by our own hand. It doesn't matter.

And so what we are what we are considering with the owner is an addition off the back of these additions, which is always a tricky one because, maybe some of the additions wouldn't be the way we would have sliced them, and so we're working with the scale and proportion of those. I just wanna acknowledge that from the get go. And if you wanna just flip to the next photo, the existing house, you can see has obviously, it's horizontal lap siding, some corner trim, some gray trim, a a stone foundation. And it's it's our understanding that the first addition occurs here with this roof breaks. So if you wanna jump to the next photo, I'm and I'm going somewhere here too is, you know, in terms of the foundation materials.

So this definitely was an addition at some point. And I we haven't pulled records yet records yet, so I don't have these dates. But you can see the relationship of foundation materials. There's a subtle step here. Obviously, they were they were looking for a stone that started to match.

And then we're on to what I believe is the third edition where it looks like a CMU that's been parched. And so that's a different foundation material that is quite honestly alien to the first two that were done. And if you wanna go to the next photo, the other thing that's not necessarily working in favor for this property is the driveway is falling as you climb down, you know, as you're driving to pass the house. And so as you continue around the back of the house, more and more foundation is being exposed. And it was interesting.

I you know, we missed it. We spent a lot of time trying to understand scale and proportion of what we were proposing to the existing house and didn't catch that the foundation materials would need to align. And so I think it's something we wanna discuss with the board tonight because we're not huge fans of the parched material. And as we continue through the photos, you'll see as this because this is a walkout basement condition. There's large expanses of the exposed parched material.

So for right now, we'll just talk about we'll come back to that as we cycle through the photos. But what we're proposing tonight is, for for board dialogue is an addition that is a three car garage. We're trying to work with the proportions of this addition and the existing house and its additions. And so we're looking at using some of the topography to lower the garage down so the roofline, its overall massing feels a little more inferior to the house. So as as you you drive in the garage, you would step up to the 1st Floor of the house, you'd climb stairs.

And then there's a small 2nd Floor space or that actually would be the 1st Floor of the house that's then activated by roof dormers. And so if you wanna go to the next image here, you know, we're kind of like ignoring material. This is how we usually start talking about architecture. Just we call these clay renderings almost where it's just all just simple and styrofoam. But you can start to see, as this as gray starts to fall, our foundation material comes in.

This is the proposed massing. There'd be an access door here, garage doors. The third the third door is in a bay that we've stepped back and lowered scale on from a roof standpoint. And so we're trying to make some moves here that really start to decrease the presence of this. But one thing that is not accurate would be if we were to, which I know you guys will make exceptions on this, carry the foundation materials over, a large portion of this would be parched which would not be great or potentially stone.

And so I think we're we're here to kinda talk to to you guys about two things. One is scale and direction of the project, and two is foundation materials, and three is whatever else the board wants to talk about. And so this is just an image. Of course, we're using a gable roof, we're matching the proportions. One of the challenges that the client tasked us with was this is a current family room and so they were very interested in stepping this, addition back so that the windows on that family room were not, we weren't encroaching on those, messing with the view.

If you wanna keep going, miss Kaufman. Yeah. Thank you. This is just an overall view. Historic house, addition one, addition two, and then proposed addition three. You know, obviously, as the hillside falls, we're also able to sort of continue stepping down. We've talked about that from a portion standpoint. If you go to the next next photo, please. This is a view looking beyond the house. We've noted the falling hillside.

There's a there's a lot of unique things happening here that we haven't seen before. So the retaining wall element that is holding up almost four to five feet on this outside corner as this hillside continues to nosedive is is is kind of like a highway utility commercial grade retaining wall. It's pretty ugly. The structure you see here is a barn. It's a detached structure.

We don't know the date of that yet. But if if we were to continue in this submittal, I think the homeowner would be interested in trying to put a garage door on this here. And then you'll see some other images. The siding is pretty is pretty beat up so maybe that'd be a part of the conversation of residing that. But if you wanna go to the next image, two or three, and you can just go to the next one if you want.

Just some images of what's there now. So the idea of attaching a garage to the house would then come with, this would be a celebration, removing all of this, all of that concrete, that hardscape, and then a grading would be done either naturally with grass and soil or with maybe a a boulder retaining wall, but nothing of this of this capacity. So if you wanted to keep jumping to the next couple of images. It's tall. It's pretty ugly.

We'd love to get it we'd we'd love to remove it. And it's it's also I mean, like, this stuff will be here until, you know, the apocalypse, but the the concrete caps and stuff on top are they're just they're kinda beat up. They're they're pretty unsightly. So that's the side of the existing barn. And if you wanna jump to the next one there, this is the back of the house.

You can see how Hillside Falls. Of course, we'd be positioning our building back here, making use of the grade that's already, you know, absent the way it's working, but all of this would be exposed. Keep going. This is the highest point of where the the addition is. And I, you know, I believe I I believe this and this were in addition at the same time, I think. We do have drawings for

this

one. This project was, was in front of you guys a couple years ago, I think, and there was, some issues with the siding and stuff. It's worth noting we were not a part of that. But, so again, a view of the side of the house. This is the south side facing, downtown.

And then, yeah, if you wanna jump to that one, that's great. So this is a rendering that shows how we would propose to connect back to the house. We've talked about the structure which is, you know, following the roof lines of the historic. We're trying to create moves that illustrate compatibility. And then for the connector piece, so as you as you climb above to the garage, there'd be a hallway that's kind of a mudroom element that connects back to the house.

And it made sense just trying to create some continuity here by using, this element which is kind of a bay window bump and and sort of mimicking the proportions of that. Of course, we would propose a horizontal lap siding to match the exposure and the finish that's on the house. But know, and again if if you wanna jump back and forth between photo and rendering, you can just see the extent of foundation that is exposed And that's a that's a parched material. This whole side is actually parched. Leave it returns back to stone on the front of the house.

So we we definitely know that's something that we we'd wanna be upfront and forward with you guys and, you know, how we could find the solution pending conversations with the board on the proposed project. And if you wanna jump to the very last image here yeah. Actually the maybe the image before even just to start to show. I'm sitting on the sidewalk now. You can see there is some screening and you can see this is kind of the play structure beyond of where that would be going away.

There's a height of the existing house and then we have just one more rendering that's very naked. There's no landscape. We're not trying to hide anything here from you guys. It just shows the relationship of rooflines, trying to look at, you know, using elements that match the proportions of the front of the house in terms of windows and even trim details here. We're not showing shutters.

We we certainly could if you guys wanna engage that. But also just showing, like, its relationship to the main house. And and so that's that's we don't do informals a lot, but this is you know kind of the nature of why we're here a little early. It's obviously a very cool property, very visible, very important to town. And it's got some clear challenges in our opinion that we'd love to solicit some feedback on.

Ms. Keneve, do you wanna start it off?

So I have a question. The current barn is used as a garage, right?

Sort of.

Well, there's a big garage door.

There's a garage door, yeah. The height of that garage door is restricting for several vehicles, for certain vehicles.

So then you would end up with having four garage?

If a garage door was put on that, that is correct.

Yeah. So speaking in terms of proportion, considering the size of the historic house, it seems a little overwhelming, the addition. So I have a question about, you mentioned the two editions. I'd be curious to know when the first edition was added. I think that would make, because if it was added during the period significance which ends in 1963, yeah, then might make a difference.

So my first reaction is that it seems like a lot in terms of the surface and not sure that it's necessary. You made a comment about the barn. It's a beautiful building and obviously 18. I mean, it looks like it, would say probably, I don't know, eighteen seventies. And my concern would be that rather than trying to preserve it, that would be an opportunity to basically more or less get rid of it or completely recite it and I think that would be a mistake considering the, where the house is seated, I mean, it's Main Street is in the historic district.

So, a suggestion I would have would be to consider renovating that barn and maybe put a better door on it and then shrinking the size of the addition so that you don't have the massing issue.

Right. And something I was gonna, anticipating this, already proactively talked, as a potential eliminating that third bay. Okay. So could be food for thought. We'd certainly grab some information on the barn just to understand. The clients seem to think it was relocated, brought there from somewhere else. I don't know that yet.

But even if it was, if the building itself

Right.

Yields, you know. So

Could I ask if if we were to one of the goals would be to remove all of that retaining wall, all the retaining wall elements, all the hardscape back there. That would only function though if a garage door was put on the front of that barn. Otherwise, you'd want you'd have to maintain access to the side. And I you know, I would I would push I would appeal the board to consider the garage door on the front of the barn because we could lose all that hardscape. So I I don't know. That's food for thought on that.

I wouldn't be opposed to barn door being shifted. It looked like the door that was on there is a steel this. It's not an appropriate door for that barn anyway. And if it had nice carriage doors that were put on the front, I could absolutely be on board with that because while we lose that front view, we're gaining the lack of hardscape, we get rid of those that double door that's steel and is awful, I would make that trade. Yeah, I think a nice quality carriage style doors on the front of that.

Carriage house.

Yeah, I think that'd be very appropriate. And I'm jumping in front of Mr. Wooten here. So formal. The only thing that I really struggle with is an addition on an addition on an addition.

And we've had these conversations as a board on a couple different ones of when is it too many additions, but I can't suggest that you remove the last addition, which I believe was about fifteen years ago that that one was put on, that you remove that because if you did that and try to make it one addition, you're now gonna be larger than the main mass and you'll have a different code issue to deal with. But it's tough, mean for me it's tough, it's a third, like at what point do the additions stop? At what point is it just, you know, we're and this is kind of visible from Owen Brown, I mean it's that highly visible, but when you walk down Owen Brown, there's a good gap between the Red Barn and the old post office house that it's, I mean, you see, it's kind of an area that you'll see this kind of that whole side, so it's not truly completely in the rear of the house as if it were in the middle of a long road. So it's just tough for me to be on board with kind of another addition to this structure.

You're right, but I would counter that if we if you wanna jump back to photos, miss Kaufman, the current view of that right? Like, yeah. Maybe 21 up there. This is the portion currently visible. And so we haven't talked about foundation materials yet and ways to counter that.

You know? I think I think we would not come to the board and ask for I don't think we'd come to the board and ask for a parged look, which I guess would take a whole different tactic because we'd be adjacent to parging, but it'd be an extensive amount of parging that should never be done. So, you know, I would think we would come back to the board. I would just argue, like, encounter, hey. If if if we did a stone, on the foundation that tried to bring back the look on the front portion of the house, then it's a much better view than what is currently there for Owen Brown perspective.

I don't disagree with that. Yeah. I don't know how the part you never got approved especially to that extent on that corner of the house. Obviously it did, but I think it was about fifteen years ago that that addition was done.

I think that's what we determined. I don't have the exact date but

Yeah, call it around twenty ten ish.

Seems

like it would have been about that time based on what was built.

We're we're showing siding just because it felt like it you know, the stone can sometimes feel, you know, strong. So we're showing siding kind of not kinda just forgetting, not disregarding, but forgetting the foundation material because the water table foundation alignment rule that we always follow. Yeah. Go ahead.

Your thoughts. To

the elevation of the three garage doors. So I guess I'm wondering if you're okay with taking the third one off, I think that's amenable to the addition after addition after addition. The thing that I would suggest is the two garage doors with the dormers and then how the dormers align on the other side. If we're the single door, If you look at that as being like a carriage house that you're building and then make the connector piece between that down lower or some separate element.

Okay.

Kind of more mimicking the third garage side situation. So now you've got like a carriage house that you're doing and you're doing a connector to would

start to break up that roof line so it's not so heavy. Yeah. Yeah.

Based upon like a look at your carriage house look and then you're connecting it

to the existing house. I

had a question about the dormers, why are they necessary? Because if you wanted to even further shrink the massing, one way in which you could do it would be to remove the dormers.

You're right. The dormers right now are being used to, because there's a 2nd Floor that is in alignment with the 1st Floor of this building that you'd you step up into in here.

So it's not only a garage, it's a garage

With an office on top. Yeah. An office on top. That's correct.

And actually, I think the dormers work okay with if it's a carriage house because then it gives that portion. It was done, added light to the carriage house at that point in time, and now we're just connecting.

And it breaks the the roofing.

Right. It breaks the roofing up from being a big long addition. And it also helps the other side, if you can go to the back side, it would help that back side and that stair enclosure, the next one down I think.

Yeah, yeah, it's low.

So the third window on the right would be, if you could pull that in as well and drop it down, then that that addition that much smaller. The part where it's the three tier or four tier bay window connector there, I was just wondering, and I understand now that the stair that's there that goes up to the second story, is it stair that takes you up to the second story here. So I was wondering why there was the two stairs so close together. Below that four windows, that's new barging below that? Or is that existing?

That's new. The existing, yeah, the existing ends right there. Yeah.

Well, and just as for detail that existing addition, it's much taller than that, where the pitch hits the window to the right, it actually hits the gutter line. So you're down about two feet with that part of that

You

can see it

in the front too because it's, that is just a very tall structure from that standpoint. But if there's a way that you can make that The three bay window, what is that? Is that actually a stair or

That is their dining room. Yeah, you wanna jump to plan, I can quickly walk you through. Yep. So this is the existing kitchen. This is this is facing North Main. So this is the east side of the house, east facing house. There's the front door. This is kinda like a a a weird little sitting room space, stairs that climb up. This is the side access point that you see in the in the pictures because this is the driveway. So this is kitchen.

This is family room, and this is dining room with a, like, a little furniture piece. And so what we're proposing is kind of a breezeway sort of connector element that gets you to this structure here. You you climb the stairs from the garage and you arrive here at the height of the 1st Floor. And you can walk down the hall. This is kind of a mudroom or pantry, You come into the house, we'll probably lose that door.

It was all conditioned, of course. Then you'd step step and be over the garage. And the way we're able to accomplish that is of course the garage sits much lower than, you know, because we already have a hillside down there. One thought though is if if you do go to the elevations sorry, jumping around a bit. But the one on the back of the house, is, you know, currently grade is doing a bunch of different stuff.

Like, we can start to look at as the way to kind of continue grade high in this area just to start to diminish or decrease how much exposed wall we have. You know, it is a I mean, the whole thing is sloping. Right? You're climbing the hill as you're climbing 91, but just food for thought on other things that we'll try to continue to consider pending next steps.

On that, the connector behind the stair here that we're looking at the new piece. If you could maybe look at that and the L shape to the stair coming this way as maybe like an existing shed porch roofs that are being enclosed that lower proportion may help that whole area work to what the existing building is rather than building that whole addition up to that, the one in the middle. As high as it is.

Okay.

Don't know about the lower, if you can make the grade there come straight across in that corner that would definitely help.

Yeah, So you just have to see how we turn the corner and then how we can feather it out.

The porch on front existing porch on the front would kind of be mimic to the enclosed porch on the left that you'd be doing. Okay.

That's a good catch. Yes.

It's not feeling like we've added another addition, but we've maybe the porch was there that you just enclosed.

Yeah.

So on the document that we have, it says that it's a bedroom bathroom office and three car garage addition. You said it's an office above the garage. Yeah. So is there a bedroom and bathroom? I'm just

There's a bathroom. They may put a bedroom in that. They're not sure. But there'd be room for it certainly. None of that space occurs in the third smaller bay. So

I was just thinking for the the dormers

and Yeah.

Light in the bedroom.

Yeah. Yes, ma'am. So the the dormers would both activate for light, for head height, but also if there is a bedroom, for sure for that.

That's my only comment.