Advisory Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

call the order uh to the um July 14th uh paying commission meeting. Uh this meeting is live streamed by the under production multimedia. So if you would please join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Okay, we'll do roll call. Um Ronald Levens is present. Uh Wayne Bergen here. Um Marty Clark is um absent. Uh Harold Goodlet here. Brian Hester here. Daisy Lucio here. John Palmer here. Okay. Let the uh record show that we do have a quorum. Uh we have um anybody had a chance everybody had a chance to review the agenda? Yes. Okay. Make a motion to approve. I make a motion. Motion made by Harold.

Second. Okay. Second by John. All in favor say I. I. Okay. Motion approved. Uh in standing business, approval of prior meeting minutes. Uh, need a motion to approve those? Okay. A motion made by Daisy. Second. Second by John. All in favor say I.

Okay, it is approved. Um, any public comments? Okay, comments. Uh, there looks like there's no old business. Moving on to new business. Uh, zoning map change request on Bali Drive. Did CCO representative here? Oh,

my name is Walder Cockinger. Um, I'm a member of CCR MAC. Um, I'm also the real estate broker here in Clark County. Um, and I'm here on behalf of um, the LLC to uh, request a zoning change on the property there at Hoy Drive. There's currently six lots that are um, that I think all of you have copies of the original plat. What the U HUD that we've proposed to put in there uh would allow us to put five um duplex uh type columns uh on those lots. And then one of the lots does not lay out very well for a duplex because of the sight setbacks and the depth of the lot. And so that lot was proposed to do just a typical regular home on it. Um it could be it will be designed as similar to the other ones. Um if you've had a chance to look at the pictures of the uh proposed uh plans. These plans were um are the same plans uh that we proposed that uh have been built by um Steve Klein in uh three of his other subdivisions. Uh Steve provided us the uh plans that we're utilizing for that. And so what we designed was for five of those homes to be that style of housing um in this market, especially in that neighborhood. It looks like because of the road, it goes out there. A lot of homes that uh and a lot of the owners and buyers of these style homes typically are people that are older,

that don't have a lot of children that are going to be uh driving. And so what we felt was that would cut down on the number of cars in and out. Uh also requirements for lots of parking on the streets where kids park and things like that. So what we were looking for was to try and design something that would fit in with that location. Being a culde-sac, it was a kind of a natural fit in there. And so um that's what our plan was and that's why we laid it out the way we did. So if there's questions, I'd be happy to try and address them. Um but it was pretty straightforward. Those will be rental properties or they will be owned.

These will be these will be owner occupied. Each home will be actually a separate uh concept for the pipe obviously would be that the owners would own the homes uh themselves. They would own their own half and they would be deeded a lot as such. And so there will be actually 11 uh deeds that would be prepared for that in eventuality. The HOA would be designed to take care of any of the common areas that there would be um in the backs and things like that cuz there are easements on the backs of those lots for utility access. So there'll be an HOA out here.

Yes, there will be. Is there an HOA out there now? No, not that I'm aware of. So, there's been two on just this street just for the five. There's more than five lots or six lots. Not that we on the street. On the street. There's two other lots that are owned by the people that live on the corners. Are they going to be under the HLA? No. I have one thing. I wonder if Tony could explain. We're looking at PUD, right? Mhm. Could you explain to myself and maybe the audience what we're looking at? I'm sure everybody probably knows what I'm doing.

Yeah. The difference between let's say it was an MS4 or sorry that if it's a R4 then you then that's multif family units but it's restricted for what exactly you can put in an R4. a plan unit development. What it does is it's mostly designed for something like you see over Charles Town Lane. We have commercial in the front, you know, different stuff in the back, different size housings. Uh the plan new development also allows uh for the allowance of smaller smaller lots, different types of things like you could do like a duplex on one and a single house in the same zone. Whereas now, if you're in the R4, you can't put a single house in an R4 zone. So that's that's why they need the PUB is to make it so they can have multiple types of housing in there.

I got a couple other things want to ask. The drainage looks really bad out there to the incline. You agree? Um we we see where the um people that bought the that actually developed that put the street in and addressed some of the drainage issues because they created a covert underneath the road to address the drainage from the right side as you're going down. There's actually uh a drainage there. What we propose to do is we'll continue to address that with um appropriate riff wrap and if we have to extend the drainage along that backside on that side, we plan to do that.

I see you've already got riff wrap on lot 222. Yes. I figured that's due to the drainage storm water. Yeah. And so when all this and and the act there's only one catch basin there at the end and it's on the left hand side. It's above the coyote. So other words, lot 220, which is the center lot. I don't know, but might not be one of yours,

but it it's going to it's going to take all the water coming down through there before it ever gets to this catch basin. It's going to have to fill up there. So it's going to flood that. Is that when the infrastructure was done? Is that was that considered or that was prior to our own in that was just kind of over the years it's kind of just been like multiple people gone in there and done some work. That would have been Christianity's there. It looks like something that they were starting but then they stopped.

Have you looked at the situation out there? Like I said, it's we have a city lift station which is going to also be flooded in there, which probably doesn't matter, but 220, which is the center lock at the into the culdevice. It's going to really flood that there. Yeah. What would have to happen is that like we thought before is uh before they could actually go in and do any work, the development would have to get reviewed as storm water drain review. It would have to it would have to fit with our storm water plans. So it would you know it' be have to be engineered and all that. So they would have to turn in they have to make application for MS4 permit and that would have to be done before any permit is issued.

Yeah. I see you've got the if you're going down the street the left hand side is terraced somewhat. The right hand side is there's no terrace coming down through it.

There there will have to be some terracing down there. um a little more than what they had done. They had laid out five lots that they were going to the previous development when Chris Hanny was in there. They went ahead and built the pads for the five buildable lots with the intention of putting just the house down there at the end um on 220 and putting the house just down level there. We don't feel that that's going to be adequate to address the drainage issues there uh because of the elevations. And so what will have to happen is is that we'll have to regrade that right side um to make sure sure that we get the drainage that we need there to come across because again obviously since we're going to be the builders uh we don't want an issue to come back on that said in Saddleback Estates unit one which is on the map here where is there access to those blocks? access to the lots

on the map here. There's lots over here. Not in this development, but where's the where do they come in at? On the right hand side, it'd be going down the street on the right hand side. Right. Those are all individual lots. Is that backed up from Delta or in the back? It says South Estate unit one. Yeah. Everything on the right hand side. Most of that is in the county. That's probably why it's not show. I didn't know if there was going to be landlock. I guess this is not going to landlock that.

I see what you're saying now. No, this should not impact any of the existing lots. The way they're laid out, the homes that are already existing, none of this impacts any of that. It does. Exactly. My my biggest concern was I think the flooding was really bad. Yeah. I think most of that infrastructure, it was all based on single family homes. There's some stuff they were going to do and then they stopped.

When you look at the layouts on the roof um and impervious surfaces, when you look at this style design home, if you look at the pictures of the ones that were that Steve built over a mill run, the pictures that are included in your pack, I saw the pictures and I I think, believe it or not, I think each house is going to throw water on the house below it from the gutters and the driveway. I think we're getting a lot of water. It's a pretty steep incline coming.

Yeah. And we we understand that. And so that's one of the reasons that we know that we have to do some additional grading on there to be able to handle the roof uh runoff um through the guttering systems because again we don't want water to run from one neighbor to the next neighbor to the next neighbor down. So yes, we took all that into consideration when we're looking at because what we looked at is the impervious surfaces that are going to be your roofs and your concrete. When you look at these, there's almost no difference than if we built larger homes on each one of these lots, which we could build, you know, six homes on there. And as far as impervious surfaces go, it would not preclude any any larger quantities of water being moved off of this. So, if we built just R1, which is what they're already designated, your water concerns could be as great as they're going to be on these. I would think there'd be more roof covering with a duplex that we're looking at than a single.

Well, these are going to be 1500 square ft. That's 3,000 square ft. So, when you get into looking at a nice size home on those lots, we're going to be 25 to 3,000 foot on those as well. So, the homes on those kinds of lots would be almost similar to that and there would be probably more concrete. So you've got a harder more impervious surface that's going to drain back to the road. So I think because of the setbacks that we're deal we proposed on these you're not going to have as much.

I kind of thought with the double concrete driveways for each unit. If there was one house there we don't have one driveway double driveway concrete. I think there I think you have a lot more water storm water runoff here than you going to have in a normal house. Well, we're looking at probably if we build single family homes there, we'd probably be looking more at threecar garages for that style home because of the price points that we would have to go to who we want to build. So, we'd probably be looking at larger homes with threecar garage type situations

being being a new MS4. the uh when we would look at the storm water plans before they used to like do situation now we look at the whole subdivision so that might cause a lot of constraint out there what they're doing we have to look at everything right how it's going to tie in so let me take consideration what John about how look I've been on some subdivisions we got trouble with this same thing with flooding and uh I'd rather catch it now than when we're down the road. We actually got a partial complaining to the city, why'd you allow this to happen?

Yeah. I've been developed in other developments and and that's always one of the issues that we have to deal with is is you know what we're looking at for water runoff and and we've had this review with a couple different people um looking at the elevations of the actual homes and how they would relate to the road structure because of the fall that goes down. That was one of the reasons why we know that we want to address the elevations on those pads because we're not sure that those pads really are going to be at a good elevation for that purpose. So, and the other thing was the HOA other words there's one, two, three, six, six lots to be building on, right? So, like 220 say somebody builds there, but they're not going to be in the HOA, right?

No, everyone there would be part of the HUD because it would that be a planned unit development. So, everyone would have to be involved in that. I didn't know if we were. So in other words, if we vote for whatever it is approved from the whole street for all that that side of not the other side and then two lots that actually that could be that we don't own those would not be part of the put. So they would not be impacted by the HOA restrictions or anything that would be um for what we would have.

Well, I more in the common area stuff like that is in the HOA. I saying that somebody HLA is going to provide services for that. I was trying to figure the two homes that not in there. There's three lots that wouldn't be in there, right? But they won't. But the the grass is right next to those lots, right? So, so are they going to be expected to pay into the HOA to have that contain? Yeah. I mean, I just want to make sure that some the homeowner we're not here. I don't know they come here wouldn't be deal.

I've got a question. um what guarantees are in place that the new development doesn't negatively impact the current homeowners in that area.

What kind of impact the biggest thing you're going to see is is that the land values for all the other existing homes in there will go up. If you go back and review the sales for the last three years of homes in there, um the appreciation values has lagged what we saw in Clark County. um the valuations from when they were purchased to where they are currently. That section there has not kept up quite as well as some of the other sections of Clarks County has done. By adding new construction there, we're going to obviously going to be in at a higher price than what the other homes that have sold in there at. So that's why we feel like we're actually going to increase everyone else's values by building these homes in there. Good. I know we held a um we had a joining property uh owner meeting um several weeks back um and there was some um there were some residents here that uh you know had some concerns and um so have have you made any changes to address those concerns or is this is this the same as as is? This is this is the plan that that we had that was looked at. I don't know. I wasn't able to attend that meeting so I don't know firsthand what what what

yeah this is what was submitted subitted was at that meeting

without changes. Well, we we made modifications because we went back and looked at and realized that we're going to have to do additional uh dirt work and we also talked about how we feel like the drainage is going to have to be handled on both sides of the subdivision that you can't just go in there and build houses. Um, we could and then then whatever flooding would be would be, you know, that's just going to run down the end of the street as it is. And since they're single family homes, you know, once you've issued a building permit for a single home, I don't know what control you have over that, Tony, you'd be better. If I if I come and I own that lot and I want to build a house on it and as long as I

fit the criteria for an RO1, I can build on there and I don't have to worry about still look at the the drainage of it, right? But I mean other than what what it would be proposed, but you build six houses in there, right? Are you going to have as much cumulative runoff as you would under the pud? You're going to have more control, right? If you build single families in there, you're not going to control control a drain is as an MS4 is controlled by engineering, right? So it doesn't matter what size it is, what type it is. It's just we just control what's the perfect service. So yeah, that uh irregardless what goes in there, we would we would have control to look at it, right?

Uh one of the concerns also was a um very narrow back there, narrow roadway. Um, has has there any been has there been any traffic studies in that area

there? I mean, there's going to be additional car traffic on this road, but again, looking at the clientele that typically buy these types of homes where you've got older folks like myself, I come and go occasionally. I don't go to work every morning. I don't come home every night. And so you're not going to have that day in and day out traffic. And I'm not going to have kids that are going to be driving and having multiple cars in and out on that type of uh situation because again, these size homes are not really what you would call family homes for multiple kids to be involved in those size. It's just not something that draws folks like that. These again are going to be more for uh a single person or a newlywed couple that wants to live in a home for five, six years or someone that's looking to downsize and move into something that's going to be much simpler, not have to worry about cutting grass and things like that.

Any other questions for the board? Um is there some plot restrictions on this? plot restrictions. I thought there was about deed restrictions. Deed restrictions. Is there some deed restrictions on this? I don't I mean that's we don't get involved in the deed restrictions of it. You got Yeah, there was none passed on that we're aware of. Now, Saddleback as a whole has some restrictions, but we're aware of those and those would be take taken into consideration as far as anything that we would do as far as plantings and things of that nature. Well, I was I wasn't at the meeting either. I didn't meet Yeah. I show it to you after we talked about that before about the restrictions.

Yeah. Is that still something they'd have to address in the development? Now they're just ask Now they're just asking for the reszoning, but if it's approved, then they have to have to come back with the the plan the development plan that they have to address that issue there. But we don't we don't per se get involved in deed restrictions. We can't do that. Okay.

Yeah. Because this is a preliminary state stage for us to be able to begin the rest of the program because we can't really we're not going to spend the money to do the rest of this until we know that this is approved. And if it is approved, then we have to go through all of the additional steps that Tony's addressed such as drainage and dealing with because we won't be able to get a building permit until we have satisfied all of those. Okay. Anyone else? Okay. If um no further questions, I'm going to open the floor up for

Thank you. Thank you. Like to go first. Okay. Ch.

I'm Chuck Deon. I live at 284 Burst Drive. I don't necessarily live in the Saddleback unit too, but u I appreciate all the questions that were asked and I do thank Mayor Hodes and Tony Jackson there for having the meeting you brought up. Uh to answer Brian's question, I know the city doesn't really deal with a lot of deed restrictions, but there are covenants in that settle back to estates that it will be all dwellings will be uh single family uh dwellings, not multif family. And I know they're asking for a put and they're asking for reasonzoning and all that stuff, but that that is in there and it's been that way since about 1985. Um I did talk to an attorney. He said that he does believe that's still to be in effect because it does say that to change that it would have 50% of the neighbors to do so. And the meeting we had, I believe we had six neighboring homes and families that were there. Um I know this is what they originally submitted you. you do address that. Uh, and I think there was a lot of things that were brought up, Ronnie, I know you were there. I know the mayor was there, but there was a lot of things that were brought up in that meeting. I don't believe they were addressed at all. Uh, so my question is, my public question would be if you're if you're out to be a neighbor, then why not be a good neighbor? Start off by addressing some of the concerns that are brought up by the people you're going to live next to you're going to build next to. Um, I think another big part of this is I've said at the table you're sitting at, I voted on a couple things before. I do not disagree that there are places that we should have duplications and town homes. And I believe there's somebody sitting in the audience that requested that a while back. One of the best builders I know in the area. And I believe u very heartfelt that there is a thing called location, location, location. There's already 78 homes that are built back there with one way in,

one way out. This year already at one point. Nobody can get in and nobody can get out due to a fire. You ask how they get into the right hand side in Saddleback unit one. Everybody comes in one way and they leave one way. There's no other way in or out of there. Unless you want to build a bridge across the lake over in Lake View, there's no other way going to be built out of there. So, I think everybody's seen that. I've lived back there most of my life. Um, I do believe that single family dwelling homes I think would be fine. I think anybody that can buy a house where they can buy a house is going to buy a house. I don't care if they have five kids or have no kids. Um, my retired mother probably puts more road puts more mileage on the road than I do. And I drive for a living. So, I'm not going to say anybody's going to slow down just because of their age or they're not going to they're not going to pick up because they're they got kids that are young. Um, I hope that you all think about all that. I think there's a lot of people here that uh don't like the idea of multif family homes. I don't think they're against the idea of single families homes, but I think when you put 11 families back there, I was young once. I wanted to buy a house. I believe everybody in this room would been at that point and whatever they would approve me to buy, I'd buy and I would stay there as long as I could. And if I had six kids, they'd be raised right there with me. So that's my opinion and I appreciate it.

Thank you. Anyone else? I'll go.

My name is Vicky Stra and I live at 11:22 Charles Town Memphis Road. Saddleback was my uh father-in-law's farm. I had four of those lots that against me in the back. And sir, you are exactly right. After rain, it looks it looks like a lake back there. I've seen that pumping station flooded right now between us, two of those lots. It just holds it. Henry sold that place for single dwellings. They tried to put multiple housings back there before it ended up in court. That is not what he intended for that farm to be. That is not what he wants his legacy to be. He wants single dwellings. That's what I want. And he's saying he'd have to put up a 30,000 ft uh house for the money and then you double your roof space. Put up a twotory and make it 1,500. Then you cut it in half. I don't want eight different families in my backyard. I want four single houses. He made the statement that it's going to be older people. My aunt lives in Buttonwood and there's older people in there. However, three of the residents have their grandchildren moved in with them with divorce cases and it's kid neighborhood now. They have a clubhouse that's inundated with kids. That's not that was so that was not the intention of that place. But that's what happens. You cannot predict the future. You don't know that. So I want the single houses. And another thing I don't think people realize on Charlestown, Memphis Road, we have a halfway house down there. And there are constantly gentlemen walking up and down Charlestown Memphis Road. I've also seen

them in Saddleback Road. saddleback walking around. I don't want I'm afraid that one of them is gonna be hurt. They're gonna get hit. I think that needs to be taken into consideration because um you're going to double at least the traffic back there where you could cut down on it a little bit. But you do have this transient population now that's constantly walking the roads. I'm assuming they probably lost their license with DWIs and that's why they're in recovery. But I think that needs to be consideration to cut down on traffic out there, too, because that is a problem. So, I thank you all. I'm really kind of disappointed that we're back here again because I think enough of us spoke last time that was opposed to this and I really kind of think it's nervy of the builders to kind of like challenge that we could be change our mind. We've all thought about it. I haven't changed mine. So, and I know all these letters that's a tax write off right there. So, um, I thank you for your time and I hope you don't approve it.

Thank you.

The lady that drives everywhere.

I'm the lady that I'm at 214 South and I live on the corner as you go past there. And like she said, I mean, I love the woods behind me and I love watching the deer. It's gone. That's okay. But are we going to honestly say we want elderly back there? Unlike Vicki, can can we really say we're going to have elderly? I mean, I'm elderly and I'm got this big home that I'm taking care of. So, I don't think that we limit it to elderly. Also, who's going to do the HOA? Are they going to put in the HOA or are we going to ask the elderly people to do the HOA? We need an HOA and settle back anyway. I'd love to have an HOA and you would have to say we have to do this and this and this, but we don't have that. So, it's it's odd to me that you're going to say in this little cult of 11 houses or six houses or 10 people,

we're going to put a HOA. You're going to drive past everything and then you're going to drive into this little HOA. I I don't I don't foresee that happening. I mean myself I don't proceed and I've been there 37 years so I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Any other comments? Good evening.

My name is Sarah Anderson. I'm at 307 Saddleback Drive. Um I am greatly opposed to this duplex project. um it is not compatible with the neighbor's interests. Uh the surrounding area is single family homes and we enjoy our community that we have developed there. Um if duplexes do come in, what is going to prevent these single family homes from becoming duplexes? Um these duplexes are going to put increased strain on the current infrastructure and the duplex development will decrease my property value. it will not increase it and it's going to simultaneously cause my insurance rates to increase. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Any other comments?

Hi. Hey, how you doing?

All right. Thanks for having this meeting. My name is Greg Grimes. I live at 227 Saddleback Drive, right across from Culac. Um, we already have a subdivision going in at the top of the hill. Charles Town Memphis Road is very narrow. The traffic out there. Everybody that lives in Saddleback has to travel that road. I'm not officially saying, but I was told there's going to be 150 homes put in the top of that new subdivision at the top of the hill. uh add that traffic to Charles Town, Memphis Road on top of these 11 uh duplexes of people coming in out and I've seen the foot traffic too. U and if you're not the defensive driver, you're going to hit somebody. And also the other concern I have is the pumping station. Is it at full capacity already with the homes that we have out there? Uh, I don't know. It's just a question. But we're going to put 11 duplexes in there of multifamily homes, at least two people, and maybe children, too. Uh, is that pumping station going to be able to handle those 11 duplexes? So, I'm totally for single house dwelling. That's what Saddleback was designed for uh in multif family. So, I really appreciate it if you guys kept it single family homes. Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right. Any other comments before we move on?

Um I'm Andrea. I live at 310 Nate Drive with my husband Nate and I think he's giving you guys um an entire letter about stuff, but we own lot 220. So, um we know about the drainage issues in there. And I just mostly wanted to make a comment because every time we hear the drainage discussed, it seems that people or at least the builders aren't really aware that it cuts right through the lots right now. It cuts right through the middle of them. And then we actually paid our own money last year to put in a retaining wall on the back end of our lot just to help with that drainage because the last builders did not complete the ditch really. So we've already invested some of our own money into the drainage. And so that's just something that's a big concern of ours going forward is to how when they come in and redevelop it, we're going to have our lot flooded again. That's all I want to say.

Thank you. It's if you're here for the BZA meeting, it's immediately after this one. All right. So, before we move on, any other comments? Come on.

Hello. My name is Michelle Henderson and I live at um 225 Saddleback. um along with my husband Travis Henderson, we own lot 224 that's on on that there as well. Um we ask the commissioners to not approve the duplexes. We are all for the single family. Um we again can't stress the drainage issue. Um major major issue for all of us. Um we're in support of single family homes. We have grandchildren and um we're all for single me homes. We ask that you all approve the duplexes. Thank you.

Thank you. I also wanted to I'm sorry. The subdivision that's being built right down the road from us, um Christianity is building that. Um that subdivision is all single family homes as well. Um, so the builder and the realtor mentioned the need um in the area for duplexes, but none of the other builders that are building around us are putting in duplexes. So I don't see the need. All right. Thank you. All right. Anyone else?

Okay. Anything else by the board discussions? We'll bring this up for a for a vote. Um, if I get a motion to put this on the table to vote. This is just a motion to u be move forward to vote on it. So move. Okay. Motion made by uh Brian.

Second by Harold. All in favor say I. I. Okay. I have it. Okay. So, um for the zoning map change request on B Drive, can I get a motion? Uh anybody make a motion to uh to approve?

No motion. Okay. Um can you clarify what the motion was that was just voted on? the the one before this one. Yes, it was just a motion to hear it. Motion to hear it. Okay. So, uh for the zoning map change, all in favor say I. Took one for but you need to have one for a motion to deny or just send it up with no. This goes to the count to There you go. Okay. So, we need a motion to u second.

He made a motion to deny. He made a motion to deny this. Yes. Okay. I'll second. Okay. Brian Hester second. All in favor say I. I. Oppos. Okay. So, the MO it does not pass. It'll go what it is. This bill goes to the council, but what it'll get recommended to the council with a denied. So, okay. Anything else? Still goes to the council. Huh? Still rules to the council. Yes. It still goes to council.

It goes to the council and then the council will vote. Uh it'll it'll it'll get to the when it gets to the council, it'll um it won't be uh recommended. It's not a public hearing. just go to the calendar. Okay. Okay. Uh, anything else? Make a motion to adjourn. A motion to adjourn by. Second by Wayne. All in favor say I. I. We are ajourned. Thank you. In case you want to hear about chicken.