Hendersonville Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, I'm going to call the meeting to order, please. Thank you for being here tonight. Um, starting with the opening prayer. Barry, will you do that for us, please? Thank you. Lord, thank you for this day. Thank you for this wonderful city that we live in. We ask that you wisdom as we conduct city's business this evening. And we ask it in your name. Amen. Amen. Thank you very much. Zach, will you do the roll call, please? Yes, sir. Altiser here. Evans here. Hardwick here. Hasty here. Kerr here. Longm. Martin here. Silkwood here. Slatterie here. That is eight present, one absent. Thank you. All right. Agenda items. This Yeah, we do have public comments. Is this for this one? Okay. All right. Okay. We have public comments agenda items only. And we have one person named Shakir Hussein. Oh, my apologies. I thought we just had to sign in. Okay. All right. You don't want to get up and speak? You got a wide open podium. I appreciate it. We'd love to hear from you. Well, it's great to have you, Gary. Well, thank you. False alarm. All right. Next on the agenda, the minutes from April the 1st. Do I have a motion? Has everyone had time to read them? Everybody seen them? All right. Go ahead. Just a quick Yes. Go right ahead. Mr. Chairman, I will just note they are corrected. Uh but what you had in your packets originally uh had uh Commissioner's uh Kerr's uh name incorrectly spelled. So that is corrected. I just wanted to just to make sure everybody was aware of that. All right. Okay. Thank you. And and if you were to go back to the packets, you'll

see the corrected ones in there. So everyone could always go back and revisit and see that. Okay. Thank you. Do I have a motion? Okay. I heard Wendy on the motion and I heard a second from Mr. Martin. Thank you. Uh can I do this by roll call or do I have to do it by roll call, please? So to use that Motion to accept the agenda approved with nine yeses. All right. Thank you very much. Yeah. And just want to go on the record to make sure everybody knows after the roll call, Miss Longmire arrived. So, we have a full committee tonight. Thank you. All right, next we have development plans and the first one on the agenda is Falcon Ridge final development plan amendment. Uh the location is 800 New Shackle Island Road, parcel 138041.00. Uh the planning staff uh person is Caitlyn. And Caitlyn, will you tell us about this, please? Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. Uh Falcon Ridge is currently owned by American Homes for Rent. Uh the applicant Ryan Holmes is seeking to purchase the development but is requesting the proposed changes prior

to the finalizing the purchase. Um the preliminary plan was um approved in May of 2014 for 103 single family homes. The residential design guidelines were established with the following. Uh the building materials, all the homes must be constructed of brick or hardy siding with stone or stucco accents. Um the garage design was up to 70% of the homes may feature front-loaded carriage style garages. These garages must be recessed 10 ft from the front facade and occupy less than 50% of the facade. Uh there was 50 foot and 60 foot lots um along with 95 foot and 125 foot lots. The final development plan was approved in June of 14. The FDP had one amendment um and that was on the 50 foot and 60 foot lots that the minimum um the two-story homes would be a minimum of 1,800 square feet with at least 1,000 square feet on the lower level. Uh the preliminary plat was approved in August of 2014, then renewed in September of 2017 and granted a final extension in November of 19. Phase one final plat development uh for the development came forward in 2020 and was approved and then again in 22 for an extension. The final plat for phase one has not been recorded as of yet. The applicant, Ryan Holmes, is proposing minor amendments to the final development plan. It is contingent upon the purchase of their development. The primary amendment is requesting the removal of the requirement for that the front-loaded garages be recessed a minimum of 10 ft from the front of the house and be replaced with garages not

to extend beyond the front porch. Ryan Homes is also incorporating the additional requirements into the development plan. Any lots that are or all lots that are over 80 feet in width must have a sideloaded or rear entry garage. All 50 foot lots must include a front porch. And the minimum square footage for all two-story homes on 50 foot lots is increased from 1,600 ft² to 1,800 ft². And that's all I have. All right. So to the committee, are there any questions that you have of Caitlyn? Any discussions that you want? Anything? Go ahead. Um, these are the this is the property that the homes were going to be built and then leased leased out and not sold. Correct. Originally, that's what we understand. Okay. So, procedurally, the new owner is going to sell the homes and not lease them. We don't know that for certain. There's a representative. Yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, we we because that may that will change our discussion with you. Sure. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. I'm sorry. Will you say your name, where you're from, and your address? Thank you. Absolutely. So, Zach Batty with Ryan Homes. Uh thank you all for allowing us to be here today to review this. So, our business model is we do not build rentals at all. Um this is all directly for purchase. And it's not even a model to where we don't even necessarily um not even just build like in a community out. We actually don't even allow for individuals investors to purchase our homes as well either. So we would be building this directly for purchase for end users. All right. Um would you be amenable to having a stipulation um attached to the comments as we as we run after we run through them? Yeah, absolutely. So, to give you some context of how we're

structuring this deal is all of these amendments that are proposed have to be approved by the current owner, American Homes for Rent. Their problem with that is that if we do that and for some reason we don't go through with the purchase of the sale, they could then be, you know, stuck with a revision that wouldn't allow them to do their normal business model. Um, there's several other things in this that I would have loved to have had like minimum square footage. The smallest we're going to build is going to be 2,700 square f feet. Quite frankly, it's a very expensive site and where our outpricing needs to be. We need to have a larger square footage. Um, you know, I mean, all of our uh 95 and 125 lots, those are all going to have sidecar entry garages as well, too. But at the same time, while I would love to put these in, I could not get approval from American Homes for Rent to allow for us to make that that in. And what you're asking for is what you've already talked with them about. Yes, sir. That's correct. Yeah, we have uh approval from American Homes for Rent. They had to, I believe, sign the uh FDP request and yes, it has been approved by them. Okay, thank you. Yeah, thank you, Michael. Yeah, welcome. Mr. Hardwick, go ahead. So, my question is for staff. Can we approve something that would be pending their purchase? And if they don't purchase it, then it just goes away. Yeah, it be moved. Yeah, we could put it contingent upon this particular uh buyer, you know, buying the property uh with the request of the u uh removal of the 10-ft garage setback. Uh so you could make it dependent upon this applicant uh purchasing uh purchasing the property. So it so you could do that. there are things that you want that we can give you that makes it better for us as well and then they just go away if you don't purchase the property. Sure. I

completely understand your point and I've brought these up with American Homes for Rent. They reached out to their legal and you know basically they're telling me that it's my word uh against you know that this is something that would be valid. They asked for a letter from, you know, the city of Hendersonville's attorney stating this. Uh, and I didn't really think that was something that was going to be a reasonable request to do. So, I've made all of these um all of these pleasant Homes for Rent, but they're unwilling to move to move on that as far as a concession allowing us to put it in. I I think one of the things that could be an option is if uh if this is favorable and passes tonight and then uh uh then you move forward on closing on the property once you have full control of the property. If there are things that you feel that would make the subdivision and development better, as the commissioner said, then we certainly would welcome you to come back when you have full ownership and uh not to hesitate to request anything that would make the development better. Is that uh Sure. So, so that's a that's a possibility as well. Sure. We want to be we we if this is good for the community and it's good for you and we're all going to end up with a better product. We'd love to have that discussion with you. Sure. And and to to be quite frank, I mean that that's exactly what I think we're proposing, allowing us to to remove this garage requirement. It's going to allow us to put a larger product on this site. Um we're kind of pigeonholded on those 50-ft lots. It's just too narrow to do a side side entry. you know, we could put a garage in the rear of the home, but again, that's going to eat into usable backyard space as well. So, you know, essentially we would be going from really probably an 18 to 2,000 foot product to a minimum of probably 28 upwards of 3600 square ft. This is going to allow us to have owners on the main floor. It's also going to

allow us to have guest rooms on the main floor with a full bathroom, which is something our um our owners have showed great interest in, especially with multi-generational families, having elderly parents or relatives living in the home. Um and then also to increasing, you know, the minimum square footage requirements. You know, we we feel that, you know, it is a big net positive to the community. Um not just our needs as a builder. And I'm sorry, go ahead. And if I can mention one other thing from from the staff standpoint, we looked at this whole thing there. There's several old uh old developments that have this 10-foot uh setback for the garage and to be we could not really figure out what the real benefit was. I think maybe back years ago, the concern was probably having more kind of snout-nosed garages that that really protruded uh in front of the house. uh and maybe just wanted to be careful that nothing, you know, did that. Uh but, uh recessing at 10 ft, uh back, especially on a 50-ft lot, get you kind of a oddlooking oddlooking home, uh where you've got the garage portion setting back, you know, quite a bit further than that front. So I we from the staff standpoint, we really couldn't quite figure out what the value was uh on that because it's it's not even uh because we thought about it from a parking standpoint. It's like well would that get you two additional parking spaces and it wouldn't because it's just 10 feet. So that's not enough um you know that's probably that's not enough to fit more cars in the in the uh the parking area as well. So I just wanted to share that, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Bear. So I have one last question for staff. So we make the approval tonight of what these guys are requesting if for whatever reason their

transaction does not happen. Are we okay with this with the current owner? Uh yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think it would. Yeah, it would make sense with the current owner. Okay. Or any few other owners actually. So, when did you hear something? Yes. Thank you for being here. And um I've wondered for a long time what was happening up on that hill with no visibility. Yeah. Um I just want to make sure I'm clear on what you said about the home size. So, you're you said your smallest home is going to be 2,700 ft and then you said 2,800 to 3600. Is that still the same number of houses? You're just putting larger houses on the lot. So, what is the smallest lot size that that's going to hold one of these houses? Yeah, a great question. So, we're not making any amendment to the lot sizes. We still believe that 103 is the feasible number. Um, there is some value engineering that we can do on the site that will give us some basement lots and cut down the cost because I mean, quite frankly, it's an expensive site. It's beautiful. I mean, there's gorgeous views, but there's a lot of rock on top of that hill and especially when you look at wetland credits and the A-P to go with it. Um, so the lot sizes would still remain the same, but by doing this amendment, it would allow us to put a much larger product on the 50- foot lots. And quite frankly, one, that's what I think the city of Henders feel like that's what is selling here. Um, you know, from our aspect, and then also two, it's quite frankly what needs to be put to make this deal pencil. um if I have an 18,800 square foot home on there or the economics of where the outpricing would have to be, it's just not going to be very feasible for um for an owner. Um and to clear up any kind of discre uh discretion between the minimum square footages, 1,800 square feet is the maximum that I could get American Homes to rent to go in and allow us to do. But all of my models and performers that I'm building out are it's our Greenwood,

which is I think 2789 is the size of it. That's the smallest floor plan that we'll be putting in there. And some of those 125 foot lots, I mean, they very well could have get up close to 6,000 square feet when you account for a basement. And on Thank you for that. And on the the one-story homes, if American Homes for Rent was sort of tying you down to a smaller footprint for the twotory, is the same the case for the,200 square foot minimum size on the one story, or is that about where you're thinking you're going to stay? Yeah, great question. We haven't asked for any amendments regarding the one stories because quite frankly I don't think we'll build any. Um I I think they are all are going to be two stories. But again with allowing us to do that garage modification. It's going to allow us to offer bedrooms on the main floor and or an additional guest room on the main floor as well too. So is this this is my slide. So just to kind of give you some examples of um of some of our products that we're doing, you know, just to keep you high level. I don't want to, you know, keep y'all here all night and bore you with stuff, but um, you know, Ryan Homes, we're the largest home builder in Middle Tennessee. We're the fourth largest in the nation. We do about, uh, 1,200 homes. We've done about 12,000 homes just in Tennessee since we've been operating. Uh, this is a picture of Enormity. So, this is actually something we would build potentially on our 95 and 125 lots as well. Everything you see in this slide is an actual product that we would be um, looking at building at Falcon Ridge. Uh here's our list of our active communities. As you can see, we're we're very prominent throughout the Middle Tennessee region. Uh Ry Ryan Homes is it we're not a spec builder. We actually don't even start building a home until the client has purchased it. So that'll let them pick the lot, the floor plan, and the interior and exterior design options. Um it's also good to note that we even have our own internal continuity rules. We don't allow the same elevation or the same color to be built across or adjacent. So diversity within a community is actually very important for us. Uh and we are not

a built to rent company as well as mentioned uh just an oversight of the map. So the other nice thing too that we're looking at doing on those 50oot lots on the far east side of the uh plot, we could actually probably remove those alleys and make those front loads as well, which would allude to a much nicer uh backyard um for both of those lots too. Uh and then really, you know, open up uh just a lot more green space throughout the community. Um, you know, again, the one item we're requesting is just the garage setback. This is an example of one of our Senica floor plans. This without a basement is right at 3,300 square feet. And so, you can see the garage, it doesn't proceed beyond that front porch. It's it's parallel in line with it. Um, again, this is an example floor plan. I think this is that Senica floor plan uh as well. Uh, sorry, this is a York floor plan. So, we have the option to do a full bedroom with a full bathroom on the main floor. Uh this is our green wood which would allow you to have an owners on the main floor again too. You can see that where that that porch would not be extended p beyond the um I'm sorry the garage would not be extended upon the front porch and then to you know things that we could get Ryan or excuse me AMH bought in on was you know the amendments we had requested. And then the benefit to the community again this will have larger homes which I think is best for the community. It's going to increase tax revenue because you'll have a higher outpric. Um, again, owners on the main floor, better backyards and guest rooms on the main floor as well. Um, and thank you. Just one other question. How many floor plans are you going to make available? Yeah, that's a great question. So I would say if you are not accounting for basement, which I think quite a few of these will have that as an option, we are probably looking at I would say six

to eight floor plans would be would be commendable in this product line. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yes, ma'am. Todd, you got anything? Yes. Quick question. Uh what's the average width of these lots? The average width of Yeah, an average. So, if you were to take like a blended average of adding So, I'm going to say you're probably I don't I don't have a definite answer, but the uh breakup is you're going to have I believe it is 32 50 foot lots and then I believe there's everything else is I think there's around 32. You know what? Actually, I have the blend right here. I can tell you So, of the 50- foot lots in question, there's only 23 of them. So, essentially, this amendment is only, you know, looking at about a quarter of the entire community. The 65 ft lots will have uh there'll be 42 of them. There'll be 32 95 ft lots and six lots will be 125 ft. Second question, if if two adjacent homes max out on square foot, say the 3600, 3,800 that you mentioned, How many feet between the houses are we talking about? So, we won't affect the minimum building set back up at all. The space goes up, not out. It goes It goes up and then it also goes deeper. Deeper. Yes. Yeah. And then some of it has to do with um kind of like the the fill of the homes too. So, like you know, for example, on this Greenwood, you can see how I it's a little bit more flat across versus on the York it may be recessed or bumped out. So, like that's an example of a Synica. And you can see how that second half is kind of pushed back. The front could then come um up on the second floor, too. Okay, great. Thank you. Yes, sir. Any other questions from the commission?

Oh, go ahead, Miss L. Thank you. Um probably more for staff rather than for you. Are we concerned about the lack of a red light and people pulling out onto New Shackle with only one point of of entry and exit to the neighborhood? 103 homes and a lot of them I love to hear the larger sizes, but larger sizes means larger car count. Um, is there a concern about the the traffic impact and getting out onto that road? Uh traffic impact study was done previously and it was determined that um an extended left turn lane into the development was um kind of the extent of the the roadway improvements required of this development. Um beyond that no other improvements were identified in that previous study. Okay. So um that takes care of on Shackle Island. What about coming out of the neighborhood? How long is the left turn? Is it just a two-lane entry and exit? I I believe there's a a right and a left turn lane out, but it's been a while since I've I've looked at these documents um at at the plans and whatnot, but um that is something we can certainly kind of flush out during the construction plan submitt. I would be interested in in knowing what the the stat count is for a left turn out because I for one would hate to be trying to get out at 7:15 in the morning if there's only a two or three car left turn out of the neighborhood. Yeah, that I don't know that the level of service is a big issue there considering uh you know the distance between uh the traffic signals and and whatnot that there's considerable amount of traffic but it's typically free flowing in that area. Um but that's that's something we can revisit. Okay.

Thank you. With the construction plans. All right. Any other questions from commission? If not, I'll entertain a motion. So moved, Todd. Okay. Is there any special comments that need to be put on this? No, this is one, you know, um you could limit it to just this uh this builder, but um I really really there's no particular reason to. Uh, so this would put this new requirement, which some of these things are pretty pretty good, uh, that I guess American Home for Rent's already agreed to. So if America Home for Rent keeps it or something doesn't work out and they keep it, then they're going to have these added things onto it, which would would be better than where we're at right now. So I don't know that I would limit it to just this this particular builder. Hopefully it works out. Uh, I think that'd be good. But, uh, if it doesn't, then these changes, I think, would be positive for the current owner or or you all or any other developer. These would be good, better than what we have right now. Okay. I don't I don't think we could we could do that because um uh in the meetings that we had with Ryan, they wanted to do that, but uh there the seller has to agree to that which American Home for Rent was not agreeable. So that would that would kind of ax it. Uh but I think in talking to them it's their intentions but you know there isn't any guarantee you know that we would have but we don't really have a guarantee right now other than well we know what America Home for Rent is planning on doing. Uh but uh so I don't think we could we couldn't put

that stipulation on there without it being voluntarily maybe done. Okay. I have a motion for Mr. Kerr. Do I have a second? Second. I I was just going to make just one small and an aid note on the the rental portion of that. So, um the the non the ability for these homes not to be sold as rentals is something that we take very serious from even a corporate level. So, for example, um we had an incident in it was 2019, one of our Nashville communities. We actually found out that a group of individuals had um purchased these four investment properties. And whenever someone goes through our mortgage process, you're actually required to do a disclosure of stating, "Hey, is this an investment property? Is this for rental?" Um, and they had clicked that it was for uh I'm sorry, it was for purchase for them to live in as owner occupied. We actually uncovered this, reported it to the FBI. Um, so it's something we take extremely seriously and we we do not allow. All right. Okay. I have a motion. I have a second. All right. Uh so with that being said, we'll do a roll call vote. Motion to approve. Pass with nine yeses. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you all for your time. Okay. Next on the agenda, we have a site plan for the Best Buy at 1018 Andrews Run. Uh they have a waiver request. Let's see what else does it say. The parcel number is 144102.01. Kaitlin, again, you're up. So, thank you.

So, Best Buy will be moving into the former Steinmartart at one uh 10:18 Andrews Run uh in the green within the Glen Brook plan development. The Glen Brook master plan um includes approved design guidelines and a master signage plan. the on the number one on the building mounted signs for the development guidelines. It calls for only raised letters attached to the building wall or recessed into the building that shall be permitted. Best Buy is requesting two waiverss tonight. The first waiver pertains to the blue facade as shown uh which involves painting the existing brick exterior. Uh there is no building inset proposed unlike the other signage in the development. Staples requested and received a waiver from planning commission in 2004 for red ephus inset on its signage. Staples is governed by a separate master signage plan within the development. Also on the slides um are other signs governed by the same master signage plan as Best Buy. Some of these are Crunch Fitness, Shoe Carnival, and Maras's. Um, also included are examples of other signage within the development that are governed by the other master signage plan which include Target, Kohl's, Ulta, HomeGoods, Ross, and Kirkland's. The second waiver pertains to the blue background proposed on the monument signage. the two existing monument signs for the development um on this master on this on the green area that was in the um that was on the left side currently feature white backgrounds on the tenant panels. Best Buy is proposing the blue background with white lettering and its yellow price tag logo as part of the review for the signage request uh design review was being considered. It's worth noting that the other two tenant

monument signs within the development are governed by a separate master signage plan and feature multicolored signage. All right. Thank you very much, Kaylin. Um, do we have anybody from the company? Will you please step up and say your name? How you guys doing? My name is uh Shakir Hussein. I'm with Easy Signs um 20626 Avery Point Drive, Katy, Texas came out uh for this. Um basically um Best Buy when they signed a lease with the landlord here, they were not under they were not aware that there was a master sign plan here. They spoke to the landlord. They put their sign exhibit into the lease as well. The landlord approved it. And when we went into permitting, it came back that hey, you know, this is governed under a master sign plan. And so Best Buy is looking for a variance cuz they kind of feel a little bit hoodwinkedked by the landlord, not knowing that their property is governed by a master sign plan. So they want to see what they can do to try and salvage this deal versus possibly going somewhere else. Okay. Anything else you want to add? Uh that's basically it. I'm Miss Caitlyn basically um gave the gist of it. They're trying to, you know, keep their their blue color um as a background. They're going away from, you know, the larger tag, which is their main identifier from a distance. Um, so they're really hoping to do um like the blue color on the background and then as well as the monument sign. They feel that with the color of the building itself having white letters um is not going to be visible as well, especially in the daylight and direct sunlight, it tends to wash out um lighter colored walls and lighter colored signs. Okay. Anybody from the commission have questions from Best Buy? Go ahead, Todd. Yes. Couple questions. One, uh the blue facade.

Um now, you may not be able to speak to the granularity of what I'm trying to get at here, but is this uh trying to get a blue facade and let's just say that uh we go a different direction on that and it's a different color. Is that something that Best Buy has uh been able to work around in different communities? That's the first question. Um and then I guess and let me ask this of Mr. Chairman here. We're looking at these as two separate waivers, right? We're going to vote on them separately. It's two separate waivers. We can we can go either way. We can vote for them separately or we can separate them out. I I would separate them out. Okay. It'll be the leisure of you guys. Yeah. I would propose we separate them out. Okay. Okay. That's my question. Thank you. So, um, Best Buy recently went through like a rebranding. I'm sure if you guys have seen some of the other locations around, their letters typically tend to be yellow with also a big um tag is is what they call it. Um, as far as the the new sign type that they're proposing, they only really build like three or four locations a year. And so they've been very um diligent about trying to get into places where this is allowed so that they don't have to go through a variance process and things like that of that nature. So as far as them having done different color facads or going with different options, I can't speak to that. Um we've been working with uh Best Buy nationally for 5 years. Um doing all of their um retrofitting, upgrading their signs to, you know, um LED versus uh neon. and then their new locations. And we have yet to come across this issue. They've just typically been pretty diligent about it by proposing the sign package and the lease and speaking to the landlord and things like that of that nature. And typically the landlord is aware of any uh master sign plans and

before they go into it. So let me continue my question here. Let's just say that the blue facade is not a not a go. Have you tried to blue halo lights over the letters? Um, that's not something that we've proposed um with them. I'm not sure as to the sign code if they would allow um like a halo lit or not. Um I think one of the other concerns is also pricing. Um they're trying to be a little bit more cautious about their buildouts. um just with the state of retail uh and Amazon kind of taking over, I think they're just trying to look at different ways to to try and optimize um their budget. M right in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here tonight. Appreciate it. Um just a quick question. So, I see that you are proposing to paint the brick blue behind the Best Buy sign. Can you walk me through how that blue paint would be removed by chance if Best Buy were to eventually move out of this U building? Um, so typically you would just repaint over it. Um, it being um brick, there's no real environmentally friendly way of removing paint that that I know of. Um, Best Buy typically will stay in a property 10, 15, 20 plus years. Um, so I personally haven't encountered that. I I just can't speak for them as to what they would do. Um, and typically um the resurfacing of um this the space is typically done by the new tenant. So I wouldn't be able to speak to that. I would say that, you know, the issue I have with the painting of the brick is just what you said because you're dealing with a cream colored brick. If you're looking at the the Steinmart U building right there, that would be hard

to match. um you would have to have an awfully big sign to cover it up again. Um and that is my one of my major issues with painting of the brick is just what would happen in 10, 15, 20 years down the road if Best Buy were to move and then we're left with something that, you know, doesn't really meet our Hendersonville standards. Completely understandable. I'm going to jump in real quick. I have one question for you. Um you're a signed guy by your own admission. Yes. And you know, Mr. Kerr brought up halo lighting and you mentioned that that could be expensive but you haven't explored that yet. Um with you being a sign guy, what would you recommend in lie of painting the brick and giving them the blue background? Um so there's a few different options they were thinking about potentially placing some type of material on the wall if you guys would be open to um this obviously as like a secondary option. maybe like an aluminum backer panel that they could do. Maybe not the full size, but it seems like they would need the full size to really capture their brand. Um, but it would be like an aluminum cabinet um that would be placed on the wall, which is relatively more expensive than than a halo lit to be completely honest with you. But I think the idea is to try and keep the brand standards whereas a halo lit um will help at night, but at night your sign is going to be shining bright anyway. It doesn't matter really what the wall color is. It's more during the daytime when you have direct sunlight bouncing off the face the white faces of the sign. It's going to reflect and becomes a little bit hard to read. Understood. Okay, Miss Lattery, go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for for being here tonight and taking the questions and I'm very excited about Best Buy coming to Hendersonville. I'd rather go to Glenn than go to Madison.

Um, I'm concerned about a large rectangle of blue, not known by you, but this group has had a lot of discussion about big blue rectangles at Walmart. And um, while I appreciate branding and the need to be consistent and wanting to be visible, the reality is it's 2025 and nobody's looking for the sign, people are looking at their phones if they don't know where Best Buy is. They will find it. um Best Buy will find them on their phone without any problem. Um, along the lines of Commissioner Silkwood's questions about painting the brick, if I can get past the big blue rectangle, which is hard for me, and just think about how you actually would would install a big blue rectangle, the paint is a concern for me, not only because it leaves us with something that is almost irrevocably blue now without the next tenant having to take on some pretty big um challenges, but I also wonder what that's going to look like in 10 years. That's a big exposed area. There's not a lot of of landscape around there that's going to buffer that from sun and wind and rain and and the tornadoes that are growing more and more fond of our area. So, I I wonder what that paint would look like. And since this is a new branding approach for Best Buy, there's really nothing that Best Buy can point to to say, "Here's a sign that's 10 years old or 15 years old." So, the upkeep on that is a concern. But my major concern is a big blue rectangle and a sign that is so obviously different from all of the other frontage signage on that entire shopping center. If it was a two or three store center, you might say, "Well, there's going to be some variation." There are a lot of businesses there that have all adhered to the sign requirements that have been laid out. So, I'm I I don't know if you have any comment to that or anything that you can speak to around the aging of the brick, but I am I'm having some real struggles

with this one. Um, great concerns. Um, as far as the the maintenance and upkeep, um, that's typically part of our scope as well. So typically um Best Buy every 3 to five years they go in and they do like an entire um maintenance overhaul of all of their properties in terms of uh parking lot lights if that's part of their um scope. Um all of their wallpack lights because there tends to be like wallpack lights around the building. Um the lighting of the signs as well themselves and then any other maintenance issues with the building. They tend to be pretty good about upkeep in in that regard. Um, that's that's really all I can speak for in regards to that. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Barton, you have questions? Yeah, I just want to echo kind of what they're saying. Um, I think paints a a bad idea. I'm sorry I missed it. Thanks for pointing that out. Um, because of everything that they said, it fades. Um, the tenant may not be here. You may not be maintaining the sign. Um, there's a lot of things that that can vary. The halo lights isn't a a great idea to me because when you have it above a brick surface, it brings out the reveals and shadow lines and it doesn't look good. This uh shopping centers on Indian Lake. Um it's kind of our jewel. Um and that's why we have the signage thing. Um, do you think your your guys your client would be acceptable with if we're amending to the blue if you had a mechanically fastened uh UV UV resistant black uh backdrop and then the white letters and stuff that you're proposing? Yeah, that's definitely something that I can um approach them with. Um, they haven't gone through the exercise of looking at pricing and things along those those lines to see if that's something that would work for them financially. Um I I know that they had mentioned something about if they may

are not able to do blue if you guys would approve um possibly painting the entire building a little bit darker color to have some type of um offset if that comes down to like a last resort. But then once again it being brick painting brick is kind of a concern. Yeah. Anything else commissioner? Uh Barry, you have a question. Couple of questions. What the This is more for staff. The red that is behind the staples. Is that paint? Yes, I believe that is is paint. It It's on Ephus. Uh and it it had to come back before the planning commission in 2014. 2004. So in 2004 uh the planning commission approved that with a with a waiver and that is Ephus uh that's not not brick and it is in an inset. Uh so there's a defined ephus uh inset with uh within that. And I would mention just uh and looking if you're looking to do something uh behind there with blue that's not paint. Uh it it can't be anything that's like a cabinet because cabinet signs aren't aren't allowed uh within that within that area. So it couldn't be something built up that's there. If it was anything, it just would have to be some kind of flat, you know, material that was up against the wall. Would you be able to define like the thickness allowed? Because we can do something that's like 2 in thick. It would have no illumination coming through the blue. It's just to give it a little bit more durability versus laying a bunch of ACM panels or something across across the building. Yeah, I think anything that's going to be re revealed above the brick is going to be

considered a cabinet. So, it's, you know, understandable. Yeah. Anything it's just an inch or two inches. Yeah. It would still be a cabinet. It would be considered a cabinet sign uh for the master sign plan. And the way it works, that's why like all of these are supposed to be channel letters, uh, which are like you see Maurice's or like Stin Mart was. They're just individual letters. And what a cabinet sign is like a lot of the signs that are just plastic and it's just like a cabinet. It's one big face and it's just might have a little bit of reveal to it, but it's kind of flat and just backlit. So that's kind of what a cabinet uh sign is. But all these types of uh requirements are that higherend kind of feel and and that's one of the things from the staff standpoint because we struggled with it. We tried to uh we once we were aware of it, we let we let them know that the blue wasn't allowed. Uh but we looked and tried to get creative to see what we could do at the staff level and uh we just weren't comfortable. Uh because as we look at as we look at Glenn Brook um uh the Glen Brook Shopping Center years ago, I wasn't here, but years ago when this was approved uh and the city uh kind of went beyond 3 highway 386, you know, north of it, uh uh when they did that, it was kind of a big risky thing to do. And part of that when I look back at when that was approved, the promise to it was that it was going to be a high-end, high quality retail shopping area. And I think it's one thing as we look at this uh you know, whatever the resolution of it is this and other things that we look at that not only do we maintain the high quality of the buildings and the facades, but also the signage is important as well to to do that. So, and it's something that

certainly um certainly the staff understands as we're looking at these things and somebody might look at what we're talking about here this evening and think that's extremely nitpicky or you know, but it's but it's these kinds of things where we look at it and diligently look at these and try to find good outcomes. Uh but that we have a high bar. It's all of these hundreds of little bitty things that set our community apart from other communities. In the retail areas, it's no different. Uh because uh the key to what we want is Steinmart has been vacant for quite some time. But because because the um design review of the building and the development and the landscaping and everything was such that our buildings when they are the few times they are vacant for some period of time, they look good vacant or they look good full. Uh in a lot of other communities, commercial areas where commercial properties come vacant, they don't look good, you know, when they're when they're vacant. Uh but in our community they look good when they're full but also if they have to be dormant for a period of time uh they're they're they continue to look to look good. So I kind of wanted to explain that and you know uh on on how the staff was looking at it and one reason it's here this evening that we just couldn't we couldn't quite we couldn't quite uh feel comfortable to do it and we wanted more uh eyes on it uh to to make this determination as well. So the other questions that I had if if the paint is applied to the brick, is there going to be any type of transition from where the paint stops and the brick goes out just the way it is today? Is there any transition around that or is it just there's going to be a paint line that just stops? I believe right now with the way that the surface

is, it's just one continuous surface. There's no um difference. You're not proposing to add anything or it's just this part's reg unpainted brick and then here's the the brick right up next to it. So there's there's no transition material between the two. As of right now, there's nothing proposed, but I know Best Buy is open to if you say, "Hey, you know what? You guys can add some type of architectural features or something along those lines." That's something that they may be open to. They're just at this point they're saying we want blue. Let us know what you guys would allow us to do. And then the the last question is I'm not for for whatever reason I'm not understanding the white letters are going to be channel letters. Correct. Correct. The only thing that we're really having the issue is the blue background behind it. Correct. That's correct. Uh and the the square footage of it even if you included the blue is okay. Yes. It's within. So the only real issue is the blue. Got it. Yes, that's correct. That's correct. Uh Mr. Hasty has patiently waited. So go right ahead, Charles. Yeah, I kind of agree with a whole lot of the comments that are made. We want to maintain the integrity of that development, but if you look at the existing conditions, that ain't the integrity we want. And it's been there for a while. Sometimes we're better off with one bird in the head and two in the bush. We may be worried about 10 years from now, but we don't want this to look bad 10 years from now. You know, I you know, I'm okay with that sign and maybe get it back to the staff and the staff work with them. And I think with all the comments that are made, the

staff can mutually work out a deal with them that that I would be acceptable with. But I think uh for the community, we need a vacant building occupied even if it's blue paint and white letters. My opinion. Okay, Mr. Martin, I saw you. Yeah. So, I really want this tenant. Um, they'd be a great anchor tenant and the location that they're looking at is at the end. I agree with everything that you've said. Um, looking at the other pictures, there's ephus on this project. Um, what I would propose to you guys is uh have the blue bait of the 2-in ephus that's acrylic that's that's already in on the project and have that be the blue background that can be adhered just like ephus on other parts of the project. That's your blue background. It's not part of the signage. And then you mount your channel letters to the ephus itself. You could actually do one inch ephus. Would that be a good compromise? All right. I was looking for Yeah. I didn't know if you were looking at staff or if you're looking at the commission. Okay. Uh any question or any comments for anyone? I think Charles agrees with you background you were talking about. He was making an ephus background about one inch thick with the blue and the blue being on ephus. It has the acrylic coating the same acrylic coating that's on the other on the project like staples. Yes. But now the one thing is recall what they said staples is a different sign ordinance all together different part of the you know the the development taking these separately. Well they're just a different set of

rules. So, you're convoluting two different sets of rules, right? Um I'm trying to reach a compromise. Um there's Ephus up above it. Um I know it's it's not strictly adhering to to the or the sign ordinance that's in place there, but it's a compromise. I think that will have a tenant in there uh that will be there for a while and we'll bring cross traffic to to support the other businesses. Something that they can agree with. I'd be okay with it. Okay. Well, I'm going to jump down. I saw Mr. Kerr go right ahead. Speak up. Question. What was agreed on when the proposal was made for Best Buy to to come to Hendersonville? Was that not discussed in terms of the color of the sign or the background? Um, I know they spoke to the landlord and they typically when they sign a lease, they submit the uh signed plans that um were submitted to the city with the landlord and they also have to approve it. That's something that most major retailers do just because they really care about their brand standards. They're not trying to make very many changes, right? And typically what they'll do is they'll look at the code of the city and then they'll also look at what the landlord requirements are and then they kind of mesh the two together and see if it's feasible for them in terms of branding wise and sign signage wise. I know that's obviously not the main sticking point of why they would come to a retail shopping center uh generally speaking. Um, but they did propose it to the landlord and the landlord did not mention anything about an MSP or an MSA and I think that's where the contention between Best Buy and the landlord is. Um, just in my experience um, permitting signs like all across the country, the landlord is usually the one that tells me as you know the guy doing the permits whether there is an MSA or an MSP unless it's some they just bought the property and they just didn't happen to see it, right? Have we heard from the landlord

at any point in this discussion? I know this is my second meeting. Uh no, we have we we have not. And I think as you can see in that picture on the top left, uh I believe the uh I believe the buildout of the construction of the conversion has already started. So I think Best Buy I understand that. I'm just trying to understand how we got to this point. Yeah. No. uh when uh when um when Best Buy contacted us, which was the first that we had had with it, uh exactly what we're explaining tonight is exactly what we've said the whole time. And we've dealt with, I don't know, maybe three or four people uh from Best Buy, but from the get-go, uh when we saw what they were wanting to do, we explained to him that the blue uh just wouldn't that was not going to work. Are you acting on behalf of the landlord or behalf of Best Buy or both? On behalf of Best Buy. Okay. It may be healthy to hear from the landlord here. Um because really that's the missing piece of this to me is I just want to understand how we got here, right? Um, and I understand that you're trying to, you know, you're the sign uh vendor, but I I I guess I'm just trying to understand Best Buy has the blue. That's that's kind of their thing, right? And then we agreed or the landlord agreed to let them not put blue. Is is that right? Or the landlord agreed to let them put blue. That is my understanding. Yes. But the landlord is the one that should understand the stipulations and requirements of that sign, right? When there's an MSA or an MSP involved. Yes. Okay. Um typically the way that um most shopping centers work is the landlord will have its own set of requirements and then the city will have um their own set of requirements as well and the landlord will say as long as our

requirements don't conflict with um what the city is allowing. And kind of the purpose of Best Buy submitting the signage package into the lease is the landlord is going to say, "Yes, this is allowed or this is not allowed." And a lot of times with with bigger um retailers that are coming in, the landlord is allowed to make their own stipulations based off of who they're going to bring into, right? So that's kind of why they're putting it into the lease. So that way the landlord then can't later say oh well our sign plan that the landlord has created doesn't allow this type of sign or these different types of finishes etc. Right? And at that point typically is when the landlord would say, "Hey, there's an MSP, which is typically an agreement between the landlord and the city on what is going to be allowed in a specific area." Cuz from my experience, it's kind of a little bit of what the landlord wants and a little bit of what the city wants and it's never as restricting as either or. It's usually like a compromise. That's helpful. Now, had did the landlord express concern or bring that to staff that Oh, let me let me let Caitlyn address. We have not heard from the landlord at all. He has been they've been included on any correspondents we've sent back to Best Buy, especially since they've submitted. So, they are aware, but we have not heard from them. So, there's there's been no discussion with the landlord that this group may have some reservations about the black or the the blue facade. Correct. Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, I would like to to um table this particular waiver and have the landlord come back to the next meeting. Let's talk about how that actually worked. Well, Mr. Kerr, I will I hear what you say. I respect what you're saying, but I don't believe we have the option of of doing that right

now. I think they the landlord or Best Buy and if you look at the condition that the building's in right now, Best Buy is knee deep into redoing this. They've signed a lease. Okay. Okay. I'm not trying to be the sticky wicket here. They should have done their due diligence. Okay. Okay. Best Buy is a great big company all across the country. Uh when they sign leases, they should be reading these things. I'm just trying to find a path here just like you are. I hear that. So now the next thing is from the committee, you know, there's things we are limited. They have things that they can ask for and request. They've obviously not done that yet. Okay. Okay. So, with that, Mr. Evans, you have comments. Yes, sir. Can we pull up the proposed monument sign the slide? We haven't even gotten to that one yet. There it is. Right there. Uh, not to belabor the point, but our answer lies right there. Thank you. I hear what you're saying. they're asking to be very different. So, you know, and as a committee, we have the option of saying we may allow that, we may not allow the building. So, we can keep them two very specific separate things or we can combine them. And right now, we have some people on the committee that are going both ways. Some want the building to be changed, some don't. So, I'm going to listen to the rest of the comments. Vanessa, you have a question or a comment? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, and this kind of goes uh a little bit with uh what director Free said and what our chairman just said. I don't think I'm misreading the situation when I say that Best Buy wants to move from Rivergate. They've had some problems there as far as I know in terms of, you know, crime and whatnot. So, I feel like we have the leverage here in this situation, frankly. And I would be okay with a monument sign with the blue background um as long as you all would remove the

uh blue facade behind the building mounted. Thank you. So any other commissioners have comments, questions, anything you want to throw out there? Go ahead, Miss Ladder. Can't help myself. Thank you. Um, you said this is a a fairly new branding. We're getting away from the big yellow tag that said Best Buy in black and going to this. Um, again, tremendous respect for the work that goes into branding and consistency in your branding, but it's still very new. So, there's not a lot of precedence around this branding yet. I I would simply throw out the the suggestion that we think long and hard that maybe you sit down with your client and think long and hard. I'm not a sign person, but white letters with a good blue background or a blue border on each letter, you know, something that gives you the blue behind the white, allows it to be visible during the day, still keeps some of that branding in place, but then also respects what we work very hard to maintain in our community. So, that would be my only and I promise I think that's it. Okay. So, we can entertain motions and we can move forward with this. I'm gonna ask Keith a question. You know, Mr. Kerr brought up he would like to see this brought back at another time with more thought from the landlord and the tenant. Okay. From my understanding, if that would have to be a request from the tenants's repres representation, is that correct? Or can we table it and force it later? You c you can. Um, you can, but I think in this particular situation, Best Buy is in a hardship situation created by their agreement that they had that they thought they had it covered and it's

not. So, I don't know I don't know that involving the landlord is going to get a particular, you know, a particular solution, right? you know, uh I think, you know, it's some it's some and it's something staff has tried to tried to work it through. Uh and with some specific direction, you know, we could we could come up with something from the planning commission. You know, if there was some specific direction, kind kind of like what uh uh Michael was talking about, you know, there's there's some things we could look at doing on that. Uh, but um, no, I don't I don't I don't think I don't think having the landlord having them then come back, I think we'd still be faced with what we're dealing with dealing with right now because the the gentleman here is the sign guy for Best Buy and whatever the solution is going to be, you know, whether you guys approve uh limited version of what he's want they're wanting or the whole version, then he's going to have to be the gentleman that's going to have to figure out and execute, you know, what that what that's going to be. I I hope that makes in some cases, I think it would make sense to just uh defer it and to get additional information, but I think the information we have here is pretty much, hey, there's for whatever reason there was confusion between Best Buy and the landlord. Best Buy thought it was all covered. the landlord for whatever reason didn't realize there were limits. I I can't really address that. Uh uh and um the communication that once the city was involved in it was hey this blue ain't going to work. It's going to be a problem. Uh and uh but you got to you got to realize too by the time Best Buy engaged not just this

gentleman but we had like three or four other people. We've worked pretty high up through Best Buy's executive branch I believe. uh and um all the interaction with that, but from the get-go, they'd already done their lease, all their signing, so they've already had that agreement. So, they were kind of surprised. And so, and then what they're here this evening is trying to figure out, okay, how let's make sure we exhaust every opportunity, you know, that we tried to get the blue on the on the back of the of the sign. So, if if I might, um, do you have the authority to make these modifications? I like I like Wendy's, uh, suggestion. Put blue letters around the white. Um, it's something that we can propose to Best Buy. We can't say, "Hey, you know what? This is what um you're going to get." Basically, unless it's something that, you know, comes from the the commission. If you guys say, "Hey, this is what you guys are going to get," then that's obviously um what it is. Um but I think the idea is to try and get either the the blue um background um approved or what options you guys might potentially allow like u Mr. Martin um recommended potentially um resurfacing part of it with Ephus, maybe doing some type of backer panel, etc. I think the idea was we can go through the the variance, um, go through this hearing, see what you guys had to say, whether you guys would allow it or not, versus submitting six or seven different brand books to the city and then having all six or seven hit you guys at multiple different times. Well, let me ask you this. So, I mean, it doesn't I mean, we could put up some proposals, the the border of the letters and maybe the backing for the blue blue facade, but we don't we don't have them in front of us to look at. Correct. What that looks like. So, it sounds like to me we're going to need to to defer

this to where we either give them a couple of options tonight, what they can do or have them come back with their architecture uh design and let us look at it and see if this committee uh believes that it's it's the right move for the city. Um I have concerned about the blue in general. Um the the monument I'm not concerned about that. And I think that that's to me we got a compromise somewhere and that may be is the compromise. Um but in this current format I I'm I'm I'm having problem with that blue facade. But I'm I'm open to solutions here to try to find a way to do that. But to talk about it in an abstract understand versus seeing it to me is a little hard. So I'll leave it at that. Let me jump to Barry. Uh Barry, you've been waiting patiently. Go right ahead. I was just going to say it sounds to me like we got a lot of disagreement up here. Um I plan to vote to approve for both both variances for a couple of different reasons. One, I understand this is a different sign regulation. I understand there's different ownership groups in the shopping center. Uh because one group owns the Kroger building, another group owns this end down here. But in my mind, it's Glen Brook Shopping Center. and we already have Staples with a red background. And so to tell Best Buy they can't do it seems to me that we're being picky. Um, and I fully respect everyone else's opinion. This is just my opinion. Um, I I don't see an issue with having the blue background on the monument signage because it's already there on the other shopping centers. So, I think we're just following through with what's already there. And you I am extremely happy that Best Buy is coming. They're going to add

to our tax base. They're going to fill a vacant building that has not been filled. And think about Sprouts chose to go to Rivergate instead of going in this particular space. So, Best Buy does have options. Uh they could go to Gallton in one of the new spaces up there. So, I really would like to see them in the shopping center and and with all due respect of everyone's different opinion. That's how I plan to vote this evening. Make a motion. I'll second. Yeah. Well, give me one second because we had some other people. Mr. Martin, no questions. You done? You're ready to vote? Okay. And one more thing. Keith wanted to say something. So, go ahead, Keith. I cut you off. Yes. I I just wanted to if if you if you decide that if if you if you make the determination that no blue on the back then as far as the letters themselves themselves go it could be it could be any color. So that could be blue, yellow, red or I think you talked about a outline with that. It could be as long as within the channel letter then that could be any specific color. That wouldn't be anything that that they would need a need a variance on. I just wanted I wanted to mention that. Appreciate it. So I heard people start mentioning that they wanted to strike a motion. So what's the motion? Are we splitting it into two? Well, I'm sure the motions will we will hear that. So I make a motion that we approve the variance as requested and that they will work with staff to get the approvals. And that's both the monument sign and the building sign. Both monument and building signs. Yes. So that's not my motion. My motion is to approve the variance the way it is here. They'll work with staff.

Hopefully the the painting and all will be fine. But we already have painting on the target. I'm not the uh staples. So yeah, my motion is to approve variance the way it was submitted. Both both the building sign as well as the monument sign. So So you're just so I understand you're combining the two. Yes. You do not want to vote separate on those in your motion. It's your motion. My motion. I'm I'm making I am making the motion to combine the two. So we have a motion and we have a second. So, I'm going to be very specific and try to make sure everybody understands. Motion is to accept the building painting the brick blue as a background to the white letters. Okay. Channel letters, correct? Yes, they are channel letters. Channel letters like individually mounted letters. Yes, sir. And the second part of that motion is to accept the monument sign with the blue background, white letters. Okay. Okay. And the little gold price tag on the right hand side and that is against what all the rest of them are with the white background. So those that's the motion as it stands. Okay. So now everybody understand it? Anybody need any more followup to it? Just so I'm clear. The first waiver is to allow the blue paint and that we're sticking to that. That's a waiver to allow the blue paint painted onto the brick. Okay. With the white channel letters on top of that. Okay. Got it. So there's we're not offering any modifications to waiver one. No modifications as his motion stands. Now understand you don't have to vote for it, right? I understand. I'm just trying to make sure. Yeah. We're I'm just trying to find a path here, you know, to get get something going here. Okay. Thanks. Now listen, you're going

to be voting on this motion. you can vote it down and there can be another motion. So, understand that and everybody understands. Everybody ready for a vote? Let's go ahead. Beth, it's a roll call vote, so it's waiting for you. Motion to approve was denied with three yeses and six nos. So now with that being said, we can open up for any other motions. If there's another motion and there's another variance, we're welcoming that right now. So all right, Mr. Martin, you got one to offer? I'd like to make a motion uh that we approve as uh submitted with staff comments except no paint. No halo lighting. No halo lighting. No painting. So just yeah the channel letters just channel letter of whatever color as said whatever color and then staff will approve what they submit. You're still doing it as as a combined motion both the frontage and the monument signage. Okay. If you guys want to separate it, we can do the the front signage first. Let's do that. Yeah. So, I've heard a motion to approve it with exactly what has been presented by staff as the alternative. Correct. Yes. The waiver requested the waiver requested with the blue paint on the brick. No, you can have the blue. It can't be paint on the brick. It has to be mechanically passed. Okay. Well, But but you can have a blue back behind

it. It just can't be paint. Correct. Okay. But now I'm not sure staff suggested that as an option because of what I heard Keith say is anything behind it is going to be considered a cabinet. Is that correct? It would be. Uh but with this being a plan development and this being a a waiver, uh the planning commission, if you chose to do it, then we could do it. Even if it even if it's not too thick, it would still be a cabinet. But if that's what the planning commission wishes to do, there is the flexibility to be able be able to do that. That's what I'm proposing. But are you proposing it as a cabinet? Because I'm hearing him say that it's specifically called out that cabinets are not allowed. I don't know that you want to carry that through forever. I'm just asking you. It's your motion. Um I will just I I don't like the word cabinet. I understand what the cabinet is, but what we're doing is not a cabinet, right? Um as far as signage goes. This is a substrate that's applied to it. I like that. Yeah, it's a substrate. That's better. Yeah. So, a blue substrate, not paint. Um and the the graphic in the blue proposed as is. Okay. Okay. With the decorative trim around it or something. Yeah. Yeah. And staff comment staff can handle only the sign only the frontage, not the monument. Right. Not the monument. Okay. Yeah. We're only talking about the building. So basically, you're still getting him what he wants. It's just not paint. Correct. It's it's basically of substrates what he said. Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to try to repeat what he said. He's he's saying we're going to put a motion forward for the front of the building only, not the monument right now. It's going to have the white letters channeled. They're going to be on a blue substrate. No paint on the

building, but it's a blue substrate that will be mechanically attached and the building channel letters will be on top of that and it'll have a nice edging between all of them. Correct. Correct. That's it. That's his motion. Do we have a second? I'll second that. Okay, we have a second from Charles. get this building. Okay. So, now roll call vote. Motion to approve pass with seven yeses and two nos. Okay. So, now we have taken care of one half of this one. Now, the other half is the monument sign. I'll make a motion we approve the monument sign as presented. The waiver as presented. Can I have one question before we go to there? Okay. The size of the the portion of that sign, is it equally proportioned for each of the businesses? Is that I'm Norm? I don't I I don't know. I don't think it's limited on that ground side. the proportion of the size of it, you know, filling the whole space. I don't think that's I don't think it is. There's not a limit up the landlord how he wants to divy that up. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Is there a limit to how big that monument sign can be? Yes. Okay. That up however he sees fit. The size it is now. Yeah. All right. Okay. That's So, we've had a motion. We've had a second. Okay. I I forgot who second. I know Charles was a motion. Mr. Martin was second. Now, a roll call vote on this. Okay. Motion to approve. Pass with nine yeses. You worked hard for that.

You worked. Thank you so much. I appreciate all of your time. Thank you for being here. Thank you. That's fine. Thanks for I will. Thank you. Okay. And uh Keith would like to speak real quick. He wants to give us a summation of what we just did. Yeah, I'll let me give let me give just a quick summation so you can go ahead and kind of put something together to send to us. Uh so what was approved on the little ground sign that's up there. So that's approved as as is. Uh on the building sign uh it's uh that blue area can still be blue, but it's going to be a substrate that's going to be uh aixed to the to the brick. And then would just need some type of decorative trim around that. And then your channel letters would all come off of that. So if you can work something up and then send that to Caitlyn, uh, then we can get that get that process quickly. I can do that. Um, okay. Would the the Ephus route also be considered? Yeah. If they wanted to resurface it with Ephus, maybe put some decorating around it, would that be something that would be considered? Yes, we would. you send us something and then we'll respond real quickly to it, okay? So, we can get to the point where uh where that you guys can move forward, but we'll uh we'll work with we'll work staff will work with you uh to resolve it uh uh to to get it done. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate your time, Mr. Chairman. Okay, Miss W, you just one thing back to Commissioner Kerr's comments. Now that we've we've approved this, we're finished. Thank you. Um but you're welcome to stay. It's riveting. Um, I am I am concerned that the landlord is not communicating the requirements that are on paper for his property and this conversation could come up again. And I know Caitlyn, you said that the landlord has been copied on all the communication but has not communicated back. Is there

something we can do to gently or not gently remind the the landlord that you know use this as the lesson learned that they must remember these things are requirement so that this doesn't wind up back in our lap with the next one. I can Mr. Chairman go right in. Yeah. uh what we'll do uh with with the way this is all turned out. Uh I'll I'll personally give a call uh to the landlord and I I'm sure after this has already happened uh they're they're they're very aware of what the process is through it. Uh but I'll I'll personally make a a contact with the landlord uh just to confirm that they fully understand. All right. Thank you. Okay. That was sausage right there. If I'm Walmart, I'm not that they didn't get there. Yeah. Okay. Next on the agenda is Drags Creek Maintenance Complex, Hendersonville Parks and Recreation, location 131 Conway Twitty Lane, parcel 159 D012.01. Okay. Lead planning staff Timothy, you're up tonight. All right. Um, thank you, chairman. Uh the the park's maintenance facility is located pretty much in the middle of Drake's Creek Park. Uh it's four four buildings. Um you can see some of the pictures there on pages uh two and three. Um four uh existing metal buildings. Um a lot of the traffic that goes through the park goes right by this. You can see that second picture on the page two. the road goes right by those buildings and you can look right into into the facility. Um, and those buildings kind of have that old metal look to them. Uh, so the the city is proposing to uh relocate um the

facility, the complex to the southwest kind of southwest area of the park. Um, which which is which is a lot more remote. Um it's uh it's going to be out of the flood plane unlike the current facility. Uh be it would be less visible. Uh have better uh opportunity for for security. I think those those buildings are where parks keep their uh a lot of their field equipment uh tractors and um all kinds of things in there. Um and then those those buildings uh there'll be there'll be five of those buildings um that will have black black metal siding. Um so that location should um it is metal sighting but it's you it's it's relocating the fac existing metalsided facility to a much more remote and more secure and less flood flood floodprone area. Okay. Is that it for them? All right. Do we have someone from parks? Mr. And is it going to be Andy? I will. Okay. You go ahead, Andy. Be glad to. What would you like me to speak on, Mr. Chairman, you can tell us anything you want. We would like to put a neon sign that says Henderson Parks on the side of it. Big blue background. No, we're proposing black background. Yes, ma'am. I appreciate y'all taking this up. Uh, this is a project that is going to be to the benefit of mainly our maintenance staff and to the park. Relocating this to up behind field 12 and 13 will get us out of the flood plane, which this facility um has been underwater up to 6 or 8 ft of water uh in 2010 and underwater multiple times since then. And it is a 50-year-old uh maintenance facility. That's the oldest building of the of the four. There is one that was built in 2017 that's in the bottom left, but the rest of them are 50 years old and uh have

some structural issues and this area that we're going to move from could be used for much needed parking. If anybody's ever tried to get out of Drakes Creek Park on a Saturday morning, you would understand that. Uh we do have our friends from W FHFR Jim Gillum and Beth Meadows here if anybody has any questions. And uh Trevor Cole is our maintenance superintendent. This project um was funded in the FY25 budget and uh we have been working on the design since July and uh have finally got to the point where we're ready to come to you all for this stage of the approval. So, if anybody has any questions, we'll take them. Well, I have no questions, but I do see Mr. Martin has a question. Go right ahead. I was just going to let you guys know this is an important project project to the city uh because it's impacting staff and uh the park's ability. Um, I'm excited to see it here already. Um, so I'm looking forward to this project passing. Okay, Vanessa, I see you have a question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here tonight. Uh, Director Gilly, I just wanted to say that I I much appreciate you all moving this this building. I think it's going to make the parks uh, Drakes Creek Park look a lot better having that in a different location and like you said, provide more much needed parking. So, I'm all for it. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Mr. Evans. I just wanted to say thank you for getting it out of the flood plane. Uh my company insurers billions of dollars worth of school property and they always put the bus garage down in the low area. Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir. And uh it would be about as uh it would be less expensive to repair the school buildings than it would be the buses. But nonetheless, you're doing a great thing by getting it up. We've gotten to the point now every time rain's in the forecast, we move all the vehicles up to this area anyway. All right. Also, Charles, what you got? This is owned to residential.

Yes. Yes. Yes, it is. Okay. All right. I got one question and then I'm going to shut up. You go right ahead. Does the metal building meet our design standards for that zoning area? Well, you know, you're moving a metal building from one metal building to another metal metal building in the park. I agree. But if Mr. Marshall developer comes in and says, "I'm going to take this metal building down. I'm going to put this metal building over here." Will he be allowed to do that? Yeah. Uh they would be if uh uh if in their site plan process uh the planning commission approved. So if they wanted to, it's possible. Uh but they would have to get the planning commission to approve. And then in that particular case, if that happened, you know, if they had old other meadow buildings that they're going to be tearing down and just putting it on a different part of the property, then the planning commission would just take that into account. doesn't mean it would be approved. Uh but the approval tonight would be the understanding that there is a substantial visual blighted look now with metal buildings in the in the center of the park and then moving with these new modern metal buildings would not would not meet uh our exterior requirements. Uh but is an understandable allowance if that makes sense. uh you know uh and that this is the city that's you know that's doing that. But approval approval would be rec approval of this site plan would be recognizing that yeah these are metal buildings and that's not typically what you know we uh we approve within u uh

this particular zone. I just don't want us to open the door up for black metal buildings when we put one over here for the the football guy, right? He's got black metal buildings and whatnot. And I don't want to open the barn door for metal buildings. Now, I'm going to vote for this because I think it's a good idea to get it out of there and get it up there and give these guys a good facility. And I think we need to be treading on deep water that we're not giving a a favorable treatment to our ourself for a metal building that we wouldn't do for anybody else that's developing within the community. No, I I to I totally understand that. I think sit situationally, not just that we're removing the very visible old buildings, you know, to put these up, but where these are and with the color of it and where they are behind the uh field uh out there at the baseball field, uh that being black will help it sort of blend in a little bit and especially at night uh will help it and and Mike could address. Well, if I may, Mr. Chairman, just um we went through kind of a similar process with the golf cart barn that came before you you all I believe as a kind of a staff level approval when we rebuilt it. We went from a metal building to a metal building. Then we had an opportunity to probably put a metal building in the park for an indoor baseball facility at field 3, which is below this. We could have came and asked for a variance for that, but it was in a high-profile area that the Sar County Schools was helping us build an indoor building in Drakes Creek Park and it was decided that we would just do what was best visually and make it what 80% brick and the rest stone that came before you all too. So, our our thought process as a staff and inside this building is to make sure that we don't do things that

put you all in a crack um in terms of your future votes and do doing this we felt was the right thing to do. So, I appreciate I appreciate what you're saying there for sure. Okay, Mr. Martin, I was just going to add um what what the city's doing. I think there's a compelling interest is the term um for health and safety and a residential developer would not be able to come up with a compelling interest. So I think we should be good. All right. Anybody else on the commission? Any questions? Do I hear a motion from anyone? All right. We have a motion. I'll give a second. All right. Roll call vote. for every building. Charles. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. Motion passed with nine yeses and one grumble. All right. Next, we're to the staff level projects that have been approved. Um, do I just need to read through these? Do I need to say anything in particular? No. Yeah, you you can or you can just ask me to go through them. Oh, yeah. Be fine. I'll let I'll let Keith go through these. Uh, I the uh staff level projects that were approved. We got Caldell Estates, lot 14 and 15, reubdivision final plat Milstone phase 7 section one revision final plat. Those are projects that are approved at the staff level. Other projects we're working on right now, uh this first one is Ferguson Acres lot two amendment and that's associated with that Donna Drive uh site plan that was approved uh by the planning commission and part of the condition of that was that they needed

to revise uh the plat uh and so they're that's what they're in the process of doing. Forest Retreat subdivision lots two and three consolidation at 700 and 706 uh West Main Street. Uh Hendersonville football stadium that's still uh in in process to the for the site plan review. Uh Merlhide Merrell Hyde uh magnet school tennis court actually a pretty nice uh tennis court facility uh that they're adding over there. Uh that's a project that we're in the process of reviewing as well. And those are all the u the projects that are approved at the staff level and the ones we're currently reviewing. Mr. Chairman, you got any other director's comments that you'd like to? Uh, no. I have I have no comments for this evening other than um uh to remind everyone that on May the 20th, Tuesday, May the 20th, we're going to have a work session. Uh we're going to go over at 6 I think it's at 6:30 and we're going to go over the proposed changes in the zoning ordinance uh and proposed changes to the subdivision regulations. Uh we've tried to incorporate a lot of the things over the last uh last year uh that the planning commission has kind of brought to our attention uh as well as uh some different little loopholes that we found and little fixes that we need to uh to make to tidy up our uh our zoning ordinance. Uh so we'll be we'll be doing that on the 20th. That's probably going to be it's going to be probably at least a two-hour meeting. Uh but we're going to have everything ready to go where we're going to go through everything and at least give a executive highlight of you know all of the major changes that we're uh we're proposing. Same 6:30 time uh 6:30 in this room and we'll have some we'll probably have something to eat as well. Yeah. I don't know if it I don't know if it' be water. It could be. It could be. That's possible. John, you're lit up. Do you have anything? Thank you, sir. And don't throw anything at me for

coming uh for bringing the sign thing back again. Uh but all we did there was protect the landlord's building. We didn't change anything. We didn't move anything. And far be it for me to design anybody's sign. And I don't think that's our business. Nor do I believe that this sign thing should have ever come before us. to Commissioner Hasty's point uh and to the point about this sign thing. Uh if if we do nothing else here, we've got to be consistent. We've got to be as consistent as possible and uh I hope we try to do that in future. All right. Well, I want to say thank you everybody for being here tonight. It was a longer night than I think we all expected and a lot of grinding on that one subject matter alto together. But thank you. I appreciate it. Other than that, I'll take a motion for adjournment. So move. Second. All right. Everybody say I. I. Nays. Oh, abs. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you very