City Council - Regular Meeting

of time, efficiency, and ensuring that everyone who wish to address the council is given the opportunity to do so. The following will apply to all comments made by the public. Each speaker shall be allotted three minutes to address the council unless such time is extended by the mayor or by questions from council. group shall designate a spokesperson to avoid repetition of comments. Every effort will be made to avoid interrupting speakers. For your information, the items listed in section 11 of the agenda are for first reading and introduction and the council will not take final action on them tonight. If you have any questions on these items, please see city staff in the back of the chambers. Thank you for participate participating in your city government. I now call this meeting to order and city clerk, please call the role. Mayor Robinson here. Deputy Mayor Gilbert here. Council member Paul here. Council member Urban here. Council member Fletcher here. And can we all please uh stand for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. Good evening. Let us bow our heads and pray. Gracious and sovereign father, we come before you this evening with hearts full of gratitude for the opportunity to serve the people of this great city. Thank you for the gift of community, for the rich diversity of St. Cloud and for the responsibilities entrusted to these leaders. We ask that you would grant wisdom and clarity to Mayor Robertson and every council member as there as they deliberate and make decisions that will shape the future of our neighborhoods, businesses, and families. May their words be guided by integrity, their motives be pure, and their hearts be filled with compassion for all residents. We ask for peace where there is division, hope where there is doubt, and courage where there is fear. Let justice and mercy walk hand in hand in this place. Help us to listen deeply,

speak kindly, and act justly. May the work we do today honor the trust placed in us and bring peace, progress, and prosperity to our city. Bless and protect the city of St. Cloud, its leaders, and every citizen within it. That everything we do bring honor to you. It is in Jesus Christ's name we pray. Amen. Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Pastor Ariel Santa. And city manager, do you have any updates for us? Yes, I do. Thank you. Um, on the consent agenda, I'd like to remove item number two. Additionally, um, I'd ask that we move consent agenda item number eight, the mixed use concept plan to be heard with public hearing 2, three, and four. They're on the same project. Additionally, um, if we could move council action one immediately after public hearing number five. That's all. Thank you. Uh item number two, that's the 2025-066R. Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. And can we get a motion on those changes? Do we have to do a motion on those? No, you don't. Just move. Okay.

All right. Uh, first up we have the uh employee of the month presentation uh by Stephanie Hulampamp. Good evening. Uh good evening everyone. It's with great pleasure to recognize and celebrate our employee of the month, someone who truly embodies dedication, reliability, and what it means to be a team player. Please join me in congratulating William McFaten. [Applause] William is a very definition of teamwork. Time and time again, he steps up to support not just his department, his department, but the roads, storm water, and traffic teams as well. Always ready to help them reach their goals. Whether he's filling in for operators who can't work overtime during special events or rolling up his sleeves during the most challenging times like hurricane preparation and cleanup, William shows without shows up without hesitation with a can do attitude and inspires everyone around him. Most recently, William has been overseeing the new ballfield expansion project. During this project, a contractor approached him with an opportunity to purchase leftover dirt at a significantly reduced rate. Without skipping a beat, William reached out and shared the news with a storm water team. Because of his quick thinking, the city was able to purchase a thousand cubic yards of dirt at just $2 a yard, far below the standard rate at $5. This single decision saved the city $3,000. That's just one example, though, of how Williams dependability, initiative, and attention to detail make a real impact, not just on his team, but the entire

community. His work ethic, pride, and everything he does, and unwavering dedication are what make him so deserving of this recognition. William or otherwise known as Billy to us. Thank you for your exceptional service, teamwork, and your commitment to making a difference every single day. We're proud to have you on our team. [Applause] Really? All right. Um before we get going, um as you all know, we've had kind of a a hectic couple months here and and especially this this past month, we've had some some extra meetings that uh we typically would not have. But it, you know, I I want to assure you that it's it's been in the the search of of transparency and ensuring that our tax dollars are spent wisely, and that's our job is for oversight up here. Um, but I would like to tell you that we've um we've done an exhaustive interview on

this and and with the um investigation on this and with with these meetings today. I I spoke with our uh human resource manager and our city attorney, our city manager and we've gone through many documents, spoken with staff. Um, and I hate to say it, but you know, we owe the the U Black Empowerment and Community Council a sincere apology. Um, some of our departments dropped the ball and we are going to definitely do everything we can to ensure that never happens again. And we do apologize um to to Miss Tiffany Jeffers and the Black Empowerment Community Council on that. So, um, council, what I would like to do is, uh, ask that our city manager draft a formal apology from the city of St. Cloud to Tiffany Jeffers and the Black Empowerment Community Council for um, and if y'all aren't aware, they had an event scheduled at the ranch in St. Cloud and they were moved to another location. And you know, we we do know at this point that it was our fault. And um so city manager, is that is that okay? Is that something that that we can send a letter, a formal apology? I I I would be happy to I I agree after going through the information with you in earlier today, it's appropriate. City attorney. Yeah, that's I'm assuming none of the council has any objections. So Okay. Um, so I'm going to go ahead and make a motion to to uh on behalf of the city council in accordance with the section 3.11 investigations. As a direct um result of that, we've determined that that uh we we do owe her a formal apology. Um that's a that's a motion to send that letter out and have that the city manager draft that for us.

Second. Uh we have a second from council member Paul. Madame clerk, please call the role. Council member Paul, I. Council member Urban, I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, hi. Council member Fletcher, hi. Mayor Robertson, hi. Motion carries 5. Thank you. Thank you. The next portion of tonight's meeting is a consent agenda, uh, which contains items that have been determined to be routine and non-controversial. If anyone in the audience wishes to address a particular item on the consent agenda, now is the opportunity for you to do so. Additionally, if staff or members of the city council wish to speak on a consent item, they have the same opportunity. Council, are there any items on the consent agenda you'd like to pull for discussion? I would like to pull item three, please.

We're good. All right. Um, council. Okay. Um, item three. I, you know, I've I've been heavily involved in in sorting through some other matters that I did not have an opportunity to dive deep into these agreements. I'm just asking if we can uh move the voting on these agreements to the next council meeting because I I think these are uh extensions. These are a three-year extension or a one-year extension at least. They were three-year agreements. It was a three-year agreement um with the ability to have two one-year extensions. This would be the first the first extension. Okay. Yeah. I I'd love to to dive deep into these if if I can. You know, I've seen them. I just I I want to take a deeper look at that. Is that your motion? That's my motion. Yeah. to to move the uh I'll item number three uh resolution number 2025-087R to the August city council meeting. All right. So, we have a second from uh motion by Mayor Robertson, second from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Madame Clerk, please call the role. Council member Urban, I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, hi. Council member Fletcher, hi. Council member Paul, I. Mayor Robertson, I. Motion carries 5 Z. All right. And can I entertain a motion for everything else on the consent agenda? Motion minus items two and eight. Minus two and eight. That's actually now two, three, and eight. Motion to approve the remaining items on the consent agenda. We have a motion from Council Member Urban. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Madame Clerk, please call the RO. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. I Council Member Fletcher. Hi. Council member Paul. I. Council member Urban. I. Mayor Robertson. I. Motion carries. 5-0. All right. And next we have our citizens forum. Any person who desires a comment

on any item not on this agenda is provided this opportunity to address the city council. Each person is requested to complete a sign-in form to be provided to the presiding officer prior to or as soon as practical thereafter the person addresses the council. And first up we have Stan King. Yeah, I was here last month. The name is Stan. I'm a We can't hear you. I'm a resident of St. Cloud, Florida. I got some questions. I know the county wants to get out of the park business. That's what the mayor told me. So, we took on that white elephant called Chisum Park with $1.5 million worth of pre debt for our taxpayers down the road to get it up to snuff. Right. Well, knowing they wanted to get out of the t park business, did you try to negotiate them paying part of that? As businessmen, did you try to get them to pay part of that or we just going to take it out of the future taxpayers pockets? Secondly, city council website says you're here to represent the constituent's interest. I want to know which one of you council members got a phone call or a text or a personal visit from anyone saying, "Hey, Charlie, look here, buddy. I got a heck of an idea. How about if you charge me as a boat owner and only me as a boat owner to use your city lakefront facilities down here? I'd like you to pay charge me a $6 excise tax on top of my property tax to be the only person who pays to use the city 1.8 miles and now another.78 miles of lakefront park.

So I want to know which one of y'all got that visit and that phone call. Number three, the news release from the council from the parks department said that that $6 was going to go towards maintaining the boat launch and other lakefront areas, which meanwhile all others, the runners, the joggers, the baby strollers, the dog walkers, the kitty water park users, the beachgoers, the picnicers, the barbecuers, The swimmers, the kayakers, the paddle boarders, and anybody else from around the world can come down here and use our parks for free, but the boat owners must pay a $6 excise tax every time they use your park facilities. And the last thing I want to bring up other than those questions, I have something that I want to say and that is I noticed the disdain and contempt that you have for the people that come up here because I watched the video as I walked away last month. I watch you all looking at each other and teheing and twittering like a bunch of little school girls about how important it was the things I had to say that as a taxpayer that I'm the only one who has to pay just the sportsmen, just the hunters, the fishermen, and the boat users to use your facilities. Everybody else uses it for free. Whether you're from here, from Qatar, or from Mosamb beek, it doesn't matter. So, got any comments on any of that? Absolutely. I'll address it because Daniel, you know, I always enjoy having a conversation. No, you really don't. Yeah. Well, I do. Um, I don't know that anybody's name's Charlie, so I don't think that any of us Well, I just use that as a generic.

I understand, sir. Let me talk, please. Um, but you know when you were up here last meeting, you know, you I was quite angry. Hold on. Hold on. Quite angry. Hold on, Stan. I'm contained. When you walked away from the podium, you you yelled all the way out the door. Hold on. I wanted everybody to hear what I had to say. Well, we get We're here to We are here to hear everything. How about answering those questions? Did you negotiate with the county knowing they wanted to get out of the parks? Sir. Uh uh sir, this is public comment. We don't have to answer your questions, but I'm gonna address Excuse me. Excuse me, Stan. I'm going to explain to you when you left the podium, I was going to address your comments, but you turn around and walk straight up. No, Stanley. No, sir. Um No, you're not going to do Well, it's I me $300 in lost weight every time I come here. And you don't want to address it? Thank you, sir. If you don't want to hear me out, you can go ahead and sit down. Okay, Stanley, we we are here to listen to your concerns. Yes. And your concerns are you don't like to pay $35 a year at the boat ramp for parking. Is that or the parks? No, because I'm a taxpayer in this city. And yes, sir. And I believe uh everybody else that lives in this city is as well. And uh I believe But they don't pay to you. Excuse me, sir. No, we're not going to do this. That's not going to happen. So, you're not going to listen to it. Stanley, our conversation's over with. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Um, like I say, it only cost you $300 an hour. Thank you very much. I appreciate you down here. And I'll see you guys and I'll see you next month. Uh, next up we have Kristen Nuzo. Thank you, sir. Hey Kristen, can we get your name and address for the record, please? Yes, sir. My name is Kristen Nezo. I live at 1018 Twisted Branch Lane in um, Chisma Estates. Um, I'm coming to talk

to you about a concern that I have as a a resident of OciOla County, as a resident of the county of um, St. Cloud. I'm not a resident of the city, though. I'm just right outside that border. Um, however, the organization that I'm coming to talk to you about is inside of the city limits, and I think that it's important that you're aware of what's happening. Sorry. Um, I took on a volunteer position as a team mom for a sports organization in order to support my daughter's dreams. Um, in order to play softball at a travel ball level, we found an organization that we thought was a nonprofit. Um, after being burned this season, I did some digging to try to figure out if in fact it was a nonprofit. Um, when I searched on the IRS website, I could not find any information about them being a nonprofit. Um, I was basically the voice of the team because as a team mom, that was my responsibility. I feel immense um, sadness that I potentially helped um, an organization to defraud a bunch of parents who were looking to find a good sports organization for their daughters. Um, as a mom of a young uh teenage girl and a young lady that is nine years old, it's important to me that we empower our young women to find outlets to support their goals and their interests. Um, this organization told um potential sponsors that they were a nonprofit and that they could provide letters that would lead to tax breaks for those sponsors. Um, we stood outside of Publix and asked our taxpaying community members to provide fees and funding to help these girls so that their parents wouldn't have to foot the bill for all of it all under the guise of being a nonprofit. Now, I'm just a

mom, right? and and I'm just a veteran and I am not a PI, so I very well may have not found the information with a Google search, right? Um, but I run an organization um that is a Fortune 500 organization. Um, and I manage 330 people. So, I'm not a dummy. Um, so while I will say that I may not have all the facts on this organization, I cannot find a single fact that it is a nonprofit. They have put on their social media that they are a nonprofit. They led with the guys that they would support and help parents to provide a way for their children to work in sports without money being an object. And in fact, that was not the case. So, um, that's really what I wanted to bring up. In the end, when I decided not to stay with the organization, um, this organization chose not to provide me with the fees to allow our daughters to play in their final tournament, and I had to front those fees for them to finish their final tournament. I know I'm past time, but um, let me ask you, so is this an organization located in? Yes, sir. And I can give you the to share that over. I tried really nicely not to air that um but I will gladly share any information that you'd like to know. If you can give that information maybe to somebody well maybe it probably involves parks and the use of the fields. I don't know if you can work start there. The the fields that were utilized were county fields so potentially not. Um just FYI. Okay. Well, yeah. So, as mayor said, we can get the information to the clerk's office and then we can look further into it. Mayor. Okay.

I appreciate that. I know there are a lot of parents that are upset um with how things turned out. Um we are now part of a 501. Uh so, yeah. And our job, we do care about all the citizens and we don't want them uh obviously if they're if they're being defrauded or whatever the case may be, we want to make sure that doesn't happen to any of our citizens. To be clear, I don't think that there was any money stolen. Like, I want to be really clear that I don't I don't believe that there was like a theft. I just think that potentially they attempted to get nonprofit status and then when it didn't come through, rather than being transparent about that inability, they just kind of ran with it. Um, yeah. and I run two nonprofits myself and there it's uh there's some some there documents you have to file annually and well aware and uh yeah so yeah I appreciate your time ma'am thank you very much who should I share information all right Jackie Fion I'm getting better at pronouncing your last name you absolutely are Jackie Keony 4872 Chism Park Trail. You're getting better, mayor. Closer. Council, I'm here tonight to just give you an update. I want to thank Council Paul for a meeting with me. I think it was last week. Yes. And Stephanie with Parks and Recck. I also came tonight just to thank our St. Cloud Police Department. Especially, I want to thank Sergeant Lawson, officers Black and Waters for their continued support on July 4th to the residents and the community at Chism Park Trail for the problem we have had out there for many years with the speeders, especially

on the holiday weekends. So, thank you to Sergeant Lawson, Officers Black and Waters, and the S and the St. Cloud Police Department for sending us reinforcements. I also want to bring up that I did get notified from Stephanie that um everything else we had discussed out there at Chisum that needs to be addressed is in the process, the traffic study, the signs for the wildlife crossing, and I'm hoping for the residents and the community before the park renovation, we can get speed deterrence on that road to slow down everybody. I also do not plan on addressing this, but I would like to bring it up since the gentleman that came up and spoke about the boat ramp charges. Um, I have been thinking about this a lot because my children grew up on those lakes fishing and boating. My granddaughter is in the Oyola Anglers. And I think I have a solution for the problem that the sportsmen and the people that want to use those boat ramps do not get penalized. I brought it up to somebody on council recently and I'd like to discuss it with you guys in private and see if it's something that you guys would consider. I think it might be a solution where our voters do not have to pay and be penalized, especially our sportsmen that pay for hunting licenses, fishing licenses, and so forth. So, that might be something I'd like to set up a meeting with you guys in the future on that. And that's about it. That's all I got for tonight. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you. Yep. And I I will add to that. Uh I've spoken with Sergeant Lawson about the Chisum Park and he's there all the time making sure that those speeders are are uh enforced and also other incidents out there. So he really keeps a great eye on

that park force. So thank you Sergeant Awesome. All right. Anyone else in the audience like to uh speak on during the public forum? Let's see. All right. Next section will be public hearings. And madame clerk, please read public hearing number one. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2025-05. An ordinance of the city council of the city of St. Cloud, Florida, assigning future land use designation approximately plus - 1,378 acres, identified as Edgewater West, project CPA 24-00008, located east of Cherokee Road, northwest of CMI Park Road and south of Clay Elite Road from mixeduse county to mixeduse city providing for amending official future land use map of the comprehensive plan filing on the planning recommendations proof of publication applicability effect serability copies on file and effective date. Good evening. Melissa Duncan, director of community development. This case before you tonight is for the adoption of a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment for the project known as Edgewater West. The existing future land use designation is mixed use. The requested future land use designation is also mixed use, but it will be a city designation versus a county designation. Um, and that is um, sorry, this request is compatible with the surrounding area and will have no adverse impacts on city facilities. On April 10th, 2025, the city council granted approval to transmit ordinance number 2025-05 to the Florida State Department of Commerce for inter agency review. This

item was transmitted and was reviewed under the expedited state review in accordance with chapter 163 of Florida statutes. Staff received no comments uh from the state agencies in response to the transmitt. Here's a graphic representation of the future land use map depicting the existing county mixeduse land use for context. Honor before March 3rd, 2025, staff recommended approval. Planning Commission also recommended approval at their meeting on April 15, 2025. Likewise, it is requested that city council approve the adoption of ordinance number 2025-05 for the comprehensive plan amendment known as Edgewater West. And staff is available for any questions. All right. And would the applicant like to speak on this item? All right. Anyone from the uh in in the audience like to speak on this item council? Uh Melissa, this is the I believe this was the project where we asked the developer to increase the uh commercial on this property. Yes, sir. So, with the zoning ordinance, they recorded a um restricted deed with the land to um allow more um more commercial without staff having to go through a public hearing process. Okay. Have they had any further discussions with you on that? Have you all gone back and forth on some of that? Not yet. Typically, they'll wait until it's council approved and then we'll move forward with the construction documents. Okay. Thank you.

And council, can I get a motion on this? Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Council member Urban. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Madame Clerk, please call the RO. Council member Fletcher. I. Council member Paul. I. Council member Urban. I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Nay. Mayor Robertson. I. Motion carries 41. Madame clerk, please read item number two. Final public hearing for ordinance number 25 2025-46. An ordinance of the city council of the city of St. Cloud, Florida to annex into the city of St. Cloud approximately plus - 24.66 acres identified as Clay Road mixeduse project 24-0013 located north of Clay Road and west of Florida Turnpike in accordance with the voluntary annexation provisions of chapter 171.044. 044 Florida statutes. Mayor, would you like to read the companion items for this into Yes, please. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2025-47. An ordinance of the city council of city of St. Cloud, Florida, signing a future land use designation of plus minus 24.66 66 acres. Identify as Quay Lady Clay mixeduse project number CPA24-000017 located north of Clay Road and west of Florida Turnpike from mixed mix mixeduse county to mix mixeduse city providing for amending of the official future land use map of the comprehensive plan finding of the planning commission's recommendations proof of publication applicability effect seability copies on file and effective date. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2025-48 an ordinance of the city council of the city of St. Cal Florida providing a zoning amendment for the zoning map of the land development code of the city of St. Cloud specifically changing the zoning designations approximately plus minus 24.66 66 acres identified as Clay mixeduse project ZMA 24-000017 located north of Clay Road and west of Florida's turnpike from mix mix mixeduse county to mix mixeduse city providing

for the amending of the official future land use map of the comprehensive plan filing on the planning commission's recommendations proof of publication applicability effect severability copies on file and effective date request council's approval of the mixeduse concept plan for Clay why road mixuse project MCP24- 00003 Melissa Duncan, director of community development. These cases before you tonight are for the annexation, comprehensive plan amendment, and zoning map amendment for the project known as Clay Road mixed use. This request meets statutory requirements and is consistent with our joint planning agreement with Oyola County as it is contiguous and reasonably compact. The existing county future land use is mixed use and the existing county zoning designation is mixed use. The requested city future land use is also mixed use and the requested zoning designation is mixed use as well. This request is compatible with the surrounding area and will have no adverse impacts on city facilities. Here's a graphic representation of the subject property showing the county's jurisdiction in pink and the city's jurisdiction in yellow demonstrating that the subject property abuts the city limits on the northern and southern property boundaries. Here's a graphic representation of the future land use depicting the current county counties and cities land use designations for context. And this one shows the existing city and county zoning districts. Honor before May 1st, 2025. Staff recommended approval. Planning commission also recommended approval at their meeting on May 20th, 2025.

Likewise, it is requested that city council approve ordinance number 2025-46 for the annexation. Ordinance number 2025-47 for the comprehensive plan amendment and ordinance number 2025-48 for the zoning map amendment for the project known as clay why mixed use concurrent with their annexation future land use and zoning map amendment the applicant is requesting approval of the concept plan also for the project known as clay mixed use the applicant is requesting approval of 400 multif family units on approximately 24.66 acres of land which averages approximately 16 dwelling units per acre. They are also providing one neighborhood center on 1.25 acres along with open space areas provided as amenitized ponds. Here's a graphic representation of the concept plan or a sheet from the concept plan that depicts the place types. As you can see, that darker yellow color is the place type for the um neighborhood type two, which allows for attached residential product types. Honor before June 12th, 2025, staff recommended approval. Likewise, it is requested that city council approve the concept plan for Clay Wley Road mixed use. Staff and the applicant are available for any questions. All right. Thank you, Melissa. Uh would the applicant like to speak on this item? Good evening, council. Good evening, Mayor. Uh John Adams, RJWA 8 Broadway, CMI, Florida 34744. Uh we're in full agreement with the staff's report. Uh be happy to answer

any of the council or mayor's questions uh if you guys have any tonight. Yeah. Uh C deputy mayor Gilbert, could you just move the slide uh to back force please so we can visualize if possible please? Don't do it. Okay. Yes. So we got cross prairie right there in an entrance to the Florida Turnpike. Is that is that what I'm reading council? That's exactly right. Yeah. Uh the new entrance will be at Noli and John um if you don't mind council deputy mayor um John you told me what's the distance to the uh so to the north of us it's about a half mile uh from the urban center that you've all recently approved in April uh and Crossbury Parkway to the east is less than an eighth of a mile from the eastern side of this property. It's currently under construction. and they've actually continued it north up to the urban center from uh the north side of Clay Whe right now. Uh time frame on Cross Prairie. I know the urban center is supposed to start construction in 2026. In order to get there right now, Cross Prairie Parkway needs to be complete. Uh the Noli interchange is as you all know is under construction currently as well and that's on a 2028 uh time frame for completion. Yeah, deputy mayor, I asked him the same question, kind of the location of it and and and I don't know if we know the future of the the the current uh Clay interchange. I know I've heard rumblings about it possibly shutting down. I know we'd love to keep it open if we can. That is true. It will be shut down. Uh reason, I can comment on later, but yes, you're right. Reason for that is uh the toll roads or the CFX and turnpike they have two-mile requirement between interchanges. So that'll be the nulti road will be a full diverging diamond interchange. It'll give you opportunity to go north and south on the turnpike,

but it's too close to the current interchange right now. There'll actually be another interchange down at the Southport Expressway further down on the south end of the urban growth boundary. And then in between that uh and the wheel lock development, Green Island, there'll be another interchange and those will roughly be about two mile separation uh from each interchange. Okay. Uh deputy mayor. Yeah. I I g I sent maps to to the council for um the metro plan and the expansion and $2.3 billion in county. What they're going to send and you'll be able to look at that and you're right. Their requirements are two and a two and a half miles between intersections. So, you're right. I did send a copy to you all and I sent a copy of some other metrop plan stuff that we can speak on after uh during comment if that's possible and I yield back to you, mayor. Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh, and John, you know, you and I spoke on this and I anything around commercial, that's where our high density needs to go and you said it's about a third of a mile um close to the where the future and that's what's great about this, the fact that these lands are in the city now. That's the whole point of let's let's annex these properties in so we can determine our future. And if we're already saying that's going to be the commercial corridor right there for the retail, some big box, I think there there's a ger on there, hotel sites, restaurants. That's where we want our high density. And I think you're coming in at 16 units per acre, where I believe if you came in straight zoning at R4, it's 18 units right now. And it is it's mixed use currently in the county. So it's 5 to 25, but they calculate density a little different. Uh, so it really translates a little bit lower in the 5 to 25. Well, I was saying what our our zoning is, our four zoning, our zoning is 18 units. Yes. So that is our high density. This is actually just under our high density. And I believe our new high density in the future will be much

higher. So you're actually locking in at a lower rate uh lower number of units on this property than what our future high density will be. So um this is something I would I would like to see these kind of projects staying north of Clay like this. uh you know, further south, you know, we're we're getting into the more single family stuff and and uh I want to try if we can in the future, I know we we don't have a say on future councils, but I'd love to see everything kind of stay close to the the commercial corridors. And um that's all I have to say about that. All right. And can we get a motion on this item? Motion to approve. Motion approved. Council member Urban. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Madame clerk, please call the role. Council member Paul, I. Council member Urban, hi. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, hi. Council member Fletcher, hi. Mayor Robertson, I. Motion carries 5-0. And please read ordinance. Uh, sorry. Uh, item number three. I'm sorry, did you already read it? Yeah, you need a motion for three more. So, we need to make a motion on item number three. Can we get a motion on number three? Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Council member Paul. Second. Second from Council Member Urban. Madame Clerk, please call the role. Council member Urban, I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, I. Council member Fletcher, I. Council member Paul, I. Mayor Robertson, I. Motion carries 5-0. And we need a motion for item number four. Motion to approve. Motion. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Second. I think uh that's Council Member Fletcher. Was a second. Madam Clerk, please call the role. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Hi. Council member Fletcher. Hi. Council member Paul. I, Council Member Urban. Hi, Mayor Robertson. I Motion carries 5-0. And I believe is that it for We have the council action, the consent agenda item. Yeah, I'm looking for that one. Is that number eight?

Eight. Yes, sir. All right. And can we get a motion on number eight? That's the approval of the mixed juice concept plan. Motion to approve. Motion approved. Council member Urban. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Madame clerk, please call the role. Council member Fletcher, hi. Council member Paul, I. Council member Urban, hi. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, I. Mayor Robertson, I. Motion carries 5. Right. Thank you. Madame Clerk, please read item number five into the record. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2024-49, an ordinance of the city council of city of St. Club Florida providing a zoning amendment of the zoning map of the land development code of the city of St. Club, Florida. Specifically changing the zoning designation approximately plus - 10.31 acres identified as Thomas Thomas Tom Thomas Estates formerly known as Clark Properties project ZMA 24-00006 from Agricultural to R1B single family dwelling generally located south of Ferdick Road east of Michigan Avenue providing for amending official future land use map of the comprehensive plan filing the planning recommendations proof and publication applicability effect serverility copies on file and effective Request council's approval of the preliminary subdivision plan for the Thomasson Estates, formerly known as Clark Properties project PSP 24-00005. Good evening. Melissa Duncan again, director of community development. This case before you tonight is for the zoning map amendment for the project known as Thomasson Estates for I'm sorry. Yeah, project known as Thomasson Estates, formerly known as Clark Property. The existing zoning district is agricultural. The requested zoning designation of R1B single family dwelling is consistent with the existing land use of lowdensity residential. This

request is compatible with the surrounding area and will have no adverse impacts on city facilities. If you remember back at the June 12th meeting, council requested that this project was continued to this meeting to allow for the concurrent review of the preliminary subdivision plan. Um, and they have done that, which I will present next. But they um the request was that they removed the um South Delaware Avenue um improvements and um I will show you that next after this presentation. Here is a graphic representation of the zoning map depicting the existing agricultural zoning district. Honor before July 25th, 2024. Staff recommended approval. Planning commission also recommended approval. Likewise, it is requested that city council approve ordinance number 2024-49 for the zoning map amendment for the project known as Thomasson Estates. Okay. And the concurrent case for the preliminary subdivision plan for Thomasson Estates, formerly known as Clark Property. The subject property is located north of Clay, sorry, Clay Drive, south of Ferdict Road, east of Michigan Avenue and west of South Delaware Avenue. The existing zoning district is um agricultural and the pending request for a zoning map amendment for approval is R1B single family residential which again is compatible with the lowdensity residential future land use. The property is comprised of approximately 10.31 acres and the proposed development program includes 30 single family detached homes with front-loaded

garages. The proposed density is 2.9 dwelling units per acre. Here's a graphic representation of a sheet from the preliminary subdivision plan showing how the project will be laid out. And if you notice on the uh right hand side or on the eastern boundary of the project, the improvements to South Delaware Avenue have been removed per council's request. They've also eliminated uh the culde-sac on the south side of the property to allow for future connectivity and the proposed parking lot on the east side of the property will provide access for emergency services and includes a um hammerhead for turnaround. Sorry, a hammerhead turnaround for maneuverability. Honor before May 1st, 2025, staff recommended approval. Likewise, it is requested that city council approve PSP 24-00005 for the preliminary subdivision plan known as Thomasson Estates. At this time, staff is available for questions and I believe the applicant is also present for any questions. Thank you, Melissa. Uh, can you please switch it back to the the plan? So, I think we're going to talk about that for a little bit. Uh, would the applicant like to speak on this item? Good evening, mayor, council members. Uh Mark Stey, uh civil engineer, Pson and Bennett, 261 East Livingston Street. Uh so we're back for a third time. Um we, as Melissa said, we uh met after uh we met with staff after our uh meeting last month and uh discussed the revisions that she's already mentioned. Uh so

we've made those and presented the plan here tonight. And uh as she said, we're here to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Uh Deputy Mayor Gilbert, uh just just to Melissa, but thank you for your uh continued support and coming back. Uh we're just trying to get it right. So, we appreciate you coming back for the third time. The end game is to make it the best thing ever. So, I just had a question for Melissa. I know we're talking, we talked about u maintenance and things such as that. Um you have fire trucks coming in and then you have garbage trucks coming in. We've have some uh current uh issues with citizens where where our garbage trucks can't get in and around and then our fire trucks have a a rough time getting in and out. And my only question is and I know we we wanted to do that and council asked to to to to make that a dented area. Is that this hammerhead is that going to be adequate for fire, rescue, uh garbage, police, anything like that? because the idea is to get in and get out as quick as possible for those rescue areas. So, that that's my only question with that. Uh, and I know we asked the question to dead end that road. I've just I've got questions from citizens about dead ends and not being able to get in and out with our fire rescue and our our uh trash removal. So, if you can explain that to me, that's it. And again, guys, I appreciate you coming back. If I may, um, can I defer to our fire chief to answer those questions? I I it's just as long as it's not me questions and we're good. Nice mustache, Jason. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to point out that uh this is called sheer laziness. It'll be gone tomorrow. Um hammerheads, emergency accesses, and things like that. As a fire chief, I personally absolutely hate those terminology. I hate those usages. We have cases where they have emergency access points to various subdivisions

throughout the city. And I can tell you that it's a delay in response time to stop, get out, manually unlock a lock, open a gate, get back in the truck, and go to the call. You're faster just driving there 90% of the time. Um I think some of the best example of that is out at Whies Canoe Landing area um on the south side of the city. They have an emergency access gate there that we don't even use because it's a manual gate. And if our guys are on the road rolling, they're not going to stop, have somebody in full bunker gear to try to uncumber, manually manipulate a lock, and open it up. Um I I would like to see a future maybe where we can look at having more two access points to even these smaller subdivisions. On this one, that could be quite easy by doing a maybe an exit only or something down there in the parking lot area. Um I do know that for the fire safety plan and for the use of the um the solid waste refuge trucks. If you look down by the retention pond there, that vacant lot, there's some stabilized soil there for us to do a U-turn. Um but as far as at the other end, the Delaware end. I would be more of a proponent just to extend that little bit out to Verdict. I I wish they would have done that with Michigan Estates. Um, I'm a huge proponent of connectivity and having more than one way into a subdivision because invariably what's going to happen is is we're going to have some units run into there. There's going to wind up being a call. We're going to have a bunch of units piled up on the street. Units are going to be able to go available, but they won't be able to get out because other trucks are still being loaded with equipment and we're going to have to go down. And I'm just not a huge fan of stabilized soil bases for the long haul because water does damage to all surfaces. I mean, we see it all the time. So that's just my take on it. Um it meets cyber intent of the code. It meets the fire code as far as travel distances and things like that to the end of the

culde-sac as far as the LDC goes. So um again that's my preference as fire chief and I think it's a direction we should look at in the future for the city. Thank you. Yes sir. Yeah. If I could address uh real quickly. Um, so this is the site plan. Uh, the, uh, grading plan that's included in the PSP, uh, does show a stabilized access coming off the end of the parking lot. So, you can just pull straight out, uh, onto Fairick Road. There is no need to do a ham a three-point turn, hammerhead turn for the emergency vehicles. Um, so I don't know if you have, is it paved or stable? It's stabilized. Uh, both of them. There's a stabilized culde-sac at the western edge of the road so they can do a full turn on stabilized and then coming out of the parking lot. There's also a stabilized uh apron so to speak onto Feric which you know if needs that paved we can pave it. So that that little uh more simple way goes east and almost connects to to Del what would be Delaware. Uh that right away. No, that's that's actually asphalt. That's that is your road's going to go all the way almost to the property line, right? No, the the the access. No. And that won't be the access. I'm just seeing a little just be beyond the parking lot. Your road simple way will go beyond the parking lot. The stabilized access will exit from the parking lot north onto Fairick Road. Yeah, that's the stabilize. I was just looking at the simple way. it'll go east just a little bit beyond the parking lot so they can back and that allows them to do a three-point turn if they want to stay uh okay for the uh for the sanitary vehicles but again yeah and I would agree with the fire chief to the extent that like with future development and adding more I

mean we're talking about 11 lots right here and and um and you know I don't think there'll be too much of a congestion yet but he knows his business better than I do though Mr. Mayor, if I may, I think that if uh the I think it's called Simple Way, forgive me, it's a little um that section that you're referring to closest to Delaware Avenue there, if we were to have an exit out of that parking lot back onto Ferdick, they wouldn't have to pave that. They could actually leave that area a little bit of green space. Um they could stop it at the access to the parking lot or wherever the driveway for that house may be. Um because I believe the council's already given direction that they do not want this tied into Delaware. So the money that they would save for there could potentially pay for the the other option that I'm discussing. Just trying to look for that win-win. Okay. Um if you do decide to go that route, I would like it to be a condition of approval. Yes, sir. All right. And we have some folks in the audience like to speak on the sign. We have uh Jerem Ferdick. Good evening, council. Jarm Ferdick, 50 Fertic Road. Um, first of all, I want to say not against development. We just want stuff fixed when it's coming into the area. And I think y'all are being very gracious and listening to our concerns in the area. and I appreciate all your time. And I know the developer, they get frustrated when they have to, you know, go to staff and then they have to come to a meeting, but this is how it works, right? We're here as residents and this is our only time to be able to speak to you about stuff. We don't get seen until last minute with through agendas and so on. So, I appreciate that. Just want to get that out of the way for all your time and effort that

you go through your agendas and looking at the maps and and to the fire chief's um comments. I think I have a win-win too for the solution. Um I took their plan that they have their measurements and so on. And I think if I may put this up there so you can look at it. And if we're talking about saving money and all this other good stuff, I'm all for it. Let's save them some money. Let's eliminate Yep. There you go. That's right. Appreciate it. So, if you look at the the the spots that are yellow on where the housing and the the hammerheads in the parking lot is placed out, um you just flip the parking lot down to the other spot because I don't understand why we have a hammerhead on the shortest side. I mean, you only have three lots for a fire truck to turn in and do a three-point turn and go back out the main entrance. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I mean, the biggest truck you have is a ladder truck. What is the distance? It says it on there. 35 foot, whatever they need to turn around. But their measurements did the old way. Paper cut the sections out and put them back in. So all I did is flip the parking lot to the green space where the hammerhead where there's a stub out for connectivity to where if you look at a map of satellite, where is that road going to a person that's not selling his property? Then it dead ends into clay. So, where's your connectivity if you put that stub out? So, we're saving them money and we're adding green space. Why are we going to put a pave road to stop there? And if you look, so if we could do a comparable of kind of Let's see.

So, you kind of see what I'm saying because I don't know if we can do side by side or not, but So that's their original. So the hammerhead's on the short side from the turnaround for three lots. Why don't we put the hammerhead down where they would actually need it to turn around? You keep going. Okay. Thank you. And why can't they adjust their lots and get the same amount of lots with their green space and their parking lot and adjust down on the other end? And then I don't understand the stub out to Delaware. If we're not using Delaware, why don't they use more? Why are they cut putting the road to a dead end? Why aren't we doing a continued planting of their landscape down that and making it a true, you know, nice neighborhood closed off. So, that that's one concern and I think it's a win-win because I talked to the fire chief last time out in the lobby and tell me if I'm wrong, I'm not going to speak for him, but he said the hammerhead would be perfect for him. He had no problem if he had a hammerhead to turn around. They say they can stabilize it. They can use it as a green space because how many times does a firetruck really need to go down there? Hopefully, not too much. But if they do the same stabilization that they already said that's approvable and usable as where they already are going to do it with the purple I guess it's per what kind of stabilization is is it drainable drain like is it going to be like rock grass how you sustain like okay so it would be down on the other end and then there wouldn't have to be another exit out because if you did another exit out what it's going to turn into that parking lot People will go out of it. They're going to use it. It's not going to just be for fire and rescue. It's going to turn into a whole another

access point of running through. All right. So, number you see where I kind of scratched the number two up there where the entrance into Ferdick and Michigan is. So, we we have concerns of line of sight there. I'm just rehashing some of the stuff because these projects come in. This is the only time we can try to fix something that was done wrong from the get-go. When Michigan Estates came in, they redirected that road. For what reason? I don't know. So, there's a weird sway in that road, which I know it's not the developer that's coming in's fault, but this is a time that as a city, you have a right to try to fix something. So, I don't understand why we talk about we worry about safety of kids and stuff, but when we sit here and brought this up multiple times that people almost get ran over here constantly because you have to pull up to the stop sign, then pull up again. So, you you have to double stop to be able to see the turnout. Then, you're in the sidewalk. So, the kids, they're coming on scooters and everything else. They're looking at you while you're blocking the road. There's a lot of problems there. So, I don't know how hard of a fix that is, why they're doing their development to actually fix that blind spot. And if their PSP is the same, y'all should look at it and see. They said the clear line of sight's going to be there. Their original PSP shows tons of landscaping on this whole burm. So, if y'all are approving the PSP, you might want to think about that landscape stuff that they already have in there for that whole area that they say is going to be open. And then where you see the number three in yellow, that's where the flooding is. I don't know if we fix we can't fix it, but I want everybody to know that's where it floods every year during hurricane season. So, no one can say that they didn't know about it next time I come in

here. But to go back to the project, is there any concerns on changing or flipping or using the hammerhead that everybody seemed to be okay with? I'll let the applicant speak on this if that's something that uh So, you're uh Jerem. So, you're you're suggesting turning the the parking lot into a roundabout, right? And then moving the parking lot down to the the bottom, correct? Okay. So the hammerhead would be a green space and a turnaround for the fire truck and garbage or whatever is wanting to use it. that that would probably make it a lot easier when because there's only what six lots on that end and you know 24 on that end right on the long and then you wouldn't have to worry about paving or putting any entrances or gates or cuz and and to the point of the fire chief I agree if you had to stop and open up a gate but let's be honest if you were running to a fire here you would go into main entrance and you would be heading out to open a gate you would not be coming to the gate to open it so you wouldn't be slowing going down at all. But I agree with him. If you had to stop and open the gate, it would be a painful thing for you. But they won't have to with this idea because there's a roundabout, right? And even though the other idea, they they wouldn't have to either because they're always going to come in the main entrance. It's their exit that would be the gate opening anyway. Okay. And and if there was future development south of this, this allows that ability to tie into that. Uh you could over where that parking lot is. is that and I don't know that gentleman if he's developing his property. I don't know why we're so worried about a 5 acre track of connectivity when it's when the 5acre track has clay on one side and Michigan on the other already. So I don't know what we're worried about. If we're worried truly about connectivity, go back to your old grid

system that the old part of St. Cloud has done. That is true connectivity. these subdivisions coming in and doing loops that the fire chief hates with no exits. How you fix that is you go back to the old grid system and put all the block systems in. That's how you fix it. But no one wants to do that because you lose lot size. Everybody wants to make the most money. So, it's a double talk that I hear. We want we want connectivity, but we don't because we want the developer to make money because you're gonna use up your lot space for roads. So, just a thought. Yes, sir. Uh, yes. Applicant, would you like to address this? Um, so just a couple items. So the the western road stub uh to the south that uh is a road stub that has been requested by the city. Um I don't believe we had it in our first uh plan that we submitted. Um when it was requested on the resubmitt and uh on the last public hearing after that we had conversations again with the city uh I said can we get rid of that stub because that was a contention point and the city uh staff wanted to maintain that for connectivity to the south. Uh in terms of the emergency access, the current plan uh that we have submitted that has the parking lot that is a stabilized uh driveway off the edge of the parking lot uh end of the parking lot I should say onto Fairick Road. So uh that wouldn't be an access that a resident or people driving by would look and say, "Oh, here's a road for us to drive in." Because it's just a stabilized and sided

uh landscaping. So it just looks like grass. So, no one's going to pull off the road to drive on the grass to get through to a parking lot. Um, it does not have a gate on it because it doesn't because it is grass and because it's not a paved road, it doesn't need to be gated and locked, which would be a hindrance to the fire department uh driving through that. And then as uh with respect to his comment on the line of sight at the intersection of Feritic and Michigan, what you have there if you go out there today is just a bunch of scrub uh vegetation that is very thick and grown up. So when you stop at the stop sign, uh which to his point is angled, it's a little skewed. Um it does block your sight down the road. Typically what happens in these situations because there are plenty of situations where your line of sight is blocked. Uh the way uh the FDA code looks at it is a vehicle stops at the stop sign. If they can't see, they move forward because there is because the stops stop bar is so far back. They have the ability to move forward to inch forward uh to a point 14T off the travel lane. If you do that in this instance, you can see down the road. That said, with our development, you can see our pond track is pulled back about 15 feet off the rightway. That is that 15 ft is where all that vegetation is. Now, uh what we have proposed there are trees. Those trees are uh maintained per DOT standards. That means between ground and 6t of height, uh they are trimmed. Therefore, your line of sight is not blocked. Uh like currently, it's blocked because it's all bushes between that zero to six feet height. So, um I think that gets fixed with the development. All right. I'm going to go ahead and let Deputy Mayor Gilbert speak on this. Well, I I I think we're almost there. Uh, council and mayor, there's just a couple questions that, you know, and when someone says that land is not for sale, and my answer to that is yet.

Yeah. You know, there's not a piece of land out there that's not going to be sold or if it will in 100 years or 200 years. So, we have to at least think that it may be sold at some point. So, uh, we can't look at something say, "Well, that'll never be sold." Because, as you know, living your whole life here, there's, you know, a lot of stuff's been sold. Um, when a fire truck is needed, it won't be needed much, but when it's needed, it's needed. So, we really need to consider ourselves with any citizens that have residential area there. But, I think we're so close to satisfying the citizens and the developers. Can we not just get this done soon? I mean, we're we're we're this close. I think everybody's this close. So, I don't know how to answer it. I'm not an expert, but I know he is in fire and I know he is in engineering and I know Mr. Ferdick's been around long enough to know uh where every flood is in in in those areas and I appreciate that, sir. So, I yield back to you. I think we're there, but there's certain things I'd like to council to consider. Yeah. Yeah, I think we are. Um I think the the thing is is we don't see this this product until four or five days ago, and neither does Mr. verdict and and that's his opportunity to speak out and and I I spoke with Mr. Ferdick about this already. Um I do like his idea about a roundabout over there. You know, if they come in, you know, what's to say that can't be turned into a connection point down the road. Um you know, if the property south of it sells the five acres, um I'm okay with not having the second exit over there. I think if a roundabout fire chief uh a roundabout would suffice for fire department to turn around. Okay. And um let me go ahead and touch on the Michigan and Ferdick. That's a weird uh intersection right there. Road. Dan, do you know that?

Actually, Kevin, do you know can you answer this question real quick? I know you like to answer these questions. That's why he came to the meeting. That's right. I saw him back there raising his hand. Can I please come up? Um, do you know why why they did that weird little is there some utilities in there and why the sidewalk is pushed up? I know council member Fletcher knows that area, but that sidewalk just in that area is pushed up and verdict's pushed over and or away from it. Is there something weird about this property that nobody want the sidewalk and the road doesn't want to go near it. I wish I could give you Yeah, I was here during that time. Um, no. I said um right off hand, I don't know the the area. I heard behind me there's a possibility rightway changed uh areas. I I don't know about the the facts about that, but that that that that does sound like that something might be there because most time we try to push the sidewalks to the back of the area there. Um Michigan Avenue when this was developed was an Ocula County roadway. Um, so like I said, I don't have a lot of detail on how this uh was developed on Michigan Avenue um when it was there. Yeah. And my concern with this this whole thing is when you go to stop and to the point of the the applicant, when you go to stop at that stop sign, if you were to move forward in order to look and see, you are now parked in the crosswalk. So, you're blocking a crosswalk. And we do have a lot of kids that ride their bikes down there. and you're you're you're essentially blocking them. Um, and that is my concern with with what we do have right there. Um, and it is something that we can we can go take a look at it um and see if we can make some some changes to it to be able to make it as safe as possible. Um, the whole point of uh stop signs behind crosswalks is you're supposed to be four feet behind them to actually stop and then you're supposed to make sure that it's clear before you pull into the the

the the the area. So, I mean that that's how they are designed. It's it's not ideal. But there's no way to see, you know, you can't you I mean, we I've been down there many times myself in the past and and uh you have to pull way up. I mean, you got to you got to pull up to where the the sidewalk I know y'all can't see this, but almost all the way up to Verdict Road. I mean I mean uh Michigan Road. And and and unfortunately sometimes it's because of private landscaping and that sort of stuff. I mean, unfortunately, we we we do have that throughout town where private landscaping has, you know, with the best of intentions to be able to uh meet the DOT standards. Um, everything is great when they're small. Um, but as they start being taken over by de by homeowner associations or just private owners, um, the plants grow and unfortunately sometimes that that that that six foot, um, clearance that was being discussed um, sometimes gets impeded upon by as canopies just change with trees and that sort of stuff. Um, but uh it is something if they give me the opportunity, I'll be glad to go out there and see if we can come up with any solutions to make it um to be able to help in any way we can. Um, and I I'm just not sure of the exact um the exact reasons, but if if you give me the opportunity to look at it, I'll be glad to report back to you all. Yeah. Yeah. I was hoping we we have a solution to this uh before today. Um, my solution to it would say push the burm back where the retention pond is and bring a sidewalk bring the sidewalk onto the property more where it should kind of more into the rightway than it is now. I don't know why it dipped so close to the road in that area. I know Dan's probably the only one that that was here back then. I was here. I don't What did you What do you know about it? It's the county's fault. Yeah. Well, and I like to blame Dan. I think when Deputy Mayor Gilbert was riding his dinosaur to school, he needed a kid.

Uh but yeah, that that's just kind of my suggestion. I I do have concerns with that. And and you know, if if you pull up to that stop sign and you want to truly make sure it's safe to pull out, if you have a burm and landscape in there, you're going to be just as obstructed as the growth that's sitting there. Now, did you mind if Absolutely. Yeah, that's so so uh currently it's a roadway, then there's a hydrant, and then there's a sidewalk. And the reason they're offset is because I don't know if you can see the plan. Uh the rightway on Michigan adjacent to our property is about 15 ft uh in from the rightway on the north side of Fairick for Michigan. So that's why the sidewalk jocks. we can bring the sidewalk between the road uh by shifting by moving the hydrant over. So, we'd have to move the hydrant. There's room to do that. And that would then line up the sidewalks. And you Where is the hydrant located currently? Um I I see one on the north side of Fernick, but I don't see one on the south side. Is there is that where you're saying it's on along Michigan? Okay. So you No, I think that kind of goes opposite of what we're trying to accomplish. I think the issue is that this line is here. Okay.

Okay. And it won't be pull up farther. So, you're saying also moving the stop sign up as well? Correct. Sidewalk, stop sign. Yeah, because right now the crosswalk is back. So, move the crosswalk forward. I'm going to ask Mr. Ferdick. I know he's been there 48 years or I don't even know how many years you've been there. You would know that area better than me. Um, I don't know. It does seem opposite of what I I see his drawing is. I see what he's trying to say. But, um, I agree. Does it accomplish what we're It seems I mean, we're talking about money. Don't it seem easier to just cut the corner and make the sidewalk go instead of moving fire hydrants and so on? That's what I was thinking. That's why I suggested I'm not in that business, so I can't speak to that, but logic tells me that would be cheaper. Okay. Then I got to move the county sidewalk onto my property. Okay. C can we ask Kevin what he thought of that that solution? Um, we're talking about sight triangles and and all these different areas. Um, like I said, the biggest reason why the obviously the stop signs are behind the the crosswalks, they're always four feet behind them to allow for you to be able to stop before you enter those crosswalks. So, um, once again, be glad to go out and actually take a look at it because, you know, talking about just moving a moving a fire hydrant. Yeah, I mean it probably would help be able to do that, but to actually get out there and put your eyes on it and in the field would would would make it so much more um areas there. Be said be able to drive up because I said it's one thing to be able to, you know, sit here and talk about moving a sidewalk one way or the other, but to actually be in a be in a vehicle being where you would be sitting at when you're actually would be where the new stop bars would be at. That that's where you can really get the the true feeling for what what that would what that would adjust. Um, like I said,

the the I mean it is a a solution. I I don't know if it's the the best one and and standing right here, I wouldn't be able to to tell you that either. I mean, if you like I said, if you give me the opportunity, I I will go out tomorrow morning to be able to look at it. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, uh, Alex Madison, um, Representative Forestar, who's the applicant developer, um, 1064 Greenwood Boulevard, Lake Mary, Florida, 32, uh, 746. Um, so I know we mentioned previously that this application was originally for zoning application that was submitted a year ago. Um, I agree everyone wants to get this this right. Um, you know, we came in August of 2024 for the zoning application, which generally is is no one has ever raised a comment that this is a compatible zoning, what we're suggesting from a to R1B, but um, for some reason at this point, we've never been able to get a recommendation for that zoning. It's it seems to continually continually push push push. So, now we're here 11 months later. Um and really we've been I've already basically final engineered design this plan this project three times. um um half a million dollars into a 30 lot subdivision just because like I can we're continually trying to get everything done at a zoning and now it's a zoning PSP application and now again it seems like we're going back to a lot of engineering related items on a project which potentially I'd be redesigning for a fourth time. Um I I think if you if you look back over the meetings, we've always been willing to work with city, we've met with residents. We've presented countless plans trying to satisfy the residents

concerns, fix offsite issues and obligations. Again, we're kind of talking about fixing an existing situation that's not being generated by our project, but we're willing to look for solutions to fix this. our engineer of record. I've basically given him the ability to make all these changes and and obviously there's costs and things that are associated with that to try to to have the best product available for everybody including the you know the current residents um and also you know the potential future residents that if this project gets approved will be here. Um so we'd like to address all that. We've looked on site at the situation with Mfertic and Michigan alignment and we feel like I know you and it's cost and fixing moving hydrants and moving things. We we truly think that's going to be the sess the safest and best fix for the situation. It's going to be more costly if we take on that obligation. But I we truly think that's going to be the best best fix. The landscaping has already be resized and reshifted on the pond. Our storm water pond is actually already oversized and now hold more water on site than we're obligated to because of off-site drainage and concerns trying to help those situations. Um that we're not obligated to, but we feel like it's the right thing to do. Um we've already lost two lots because of those the storm water sizing. Um we've presented this current plan after countless multiple reviews staff approved you know res residents um um thoughts and feedback city council general you know asks and recommendations to do that and we've done this uh multiple times and I I feel like we're coming back up here and there's been solutions and things that maybe it's better this way it's presented we're actually agreeable to those we're basically at the point where I I I really have I don't really have any options here. Uh I have a project that I've spent spent half a million

dollars on and I've been at I've had for 15 months under contract for a third lot subdivision. And I'm not saying a third lot subdivision is as important as thousand lot subdivisions, which we also do. But I I feel like we've gone above and beyond to try to get this to work where we can make it. No one everyone's not always happy with everything. They just aren't. I'm not happy with where we're at right now. Um, losing lots and spending all this money and and all this time, but that's where we're at. And, you know, we're we're on board to do that. Um, and like I said, we present solutions for off-site issues. We try to create this solution. We've closed off the Delaware connection, which, you know, we're fine to it. We've changed that. We've done the parking lot. done the stabilized access that helps with with fire and fire rescue to our future residents. We we've provided the connection that may or may not ever any go anywhere. We have uh multiple communities in St. Cloud in Oyola County that I have a project with six future connection points for connectivity in a piece of property that the a county has now purchased for a park. Those six connections will never happen at the park, but they're there. So we try to work with those land development codes staff recommendation council commissioners. So I I I would hope at this point where we can get to a point where we can get a favorable approval with some type if it's a condition that's fine. We've worked with worked with staff we've worked you know with resil council for these recommendations to get approval but at some at some point I would think that I I hope that we could get a recommendation for approval to move forward. I think some of these minor changes can we work through for the final engineering plan. The majority of what we've all done already done and spent in the time is a final engineering site plan approval. It's not a necessary zoning. It's not not even a PSB. Um I

basically have engineered this project three times. You know, the information is there. We've held up back storm water. We've lost lots. We've we've moved things. We've we've almost take every suggestion and try to implement it the best as possible. Um so I uh I I just you know I'm here to answer any other questions you may have or anything I I may have raised but um no I I totally hear you. Uh you know this is only the second hearing that I've heard it understood completely. You guys came back I don't remember the last time. It was maybe October. Yeah we were originally here uh beginning of August. August our application almost a year ago. it. We're We're coming up on a year and and I do agree not everyone currently council members or mayor that were on here, but I just trying to give you some feedback for the for the for the council members that may not have been here. If you notice, I'm very opinionated on things. So, yeah. And and that's I understand everyone's trying to do the right thing here, but I want to just make sure that we haven't seemed to really get much credence that we've been trying to do the right thing in this. But we have um this is one issue. I know this was spoken about last meeting, which was the first hearing that I've heard about it. And I I do care about everybody uh everybody's money. I understand there's a lot of money and time that goes into these these type of projects and I don't want to cost any more money on anybody. But I do want to make sure it's done right because you get one shot at this and this is the one shot, at least from my perspective. And I know we got another new council member here. That last meeting was the first time we heard about it. And I know we spoke about this issue, but I haven't seen any changes on the plan. I do appreciate you offering um to to move the fire hydrant. I think that is, you know, now that I'm looking at it, um it it is in front of that that property north of of Ferdick, that sidewalk is

set way back, whereas the rest I mean, they're all in different. If you look all along uh um Michigan Avenue, I I it's it's like the person putting the sidewalk in was drunk, you know, they just kind of went all over the place. And I don't know why. Uh maybe it's between the county and the city where it just kind of the the different water. What's that? Miss the water. Okay. Like I said, I think and Jerem, let me ask you this. If I can ask you up here real quick. Melissa, do we have an aerial showing that sidewalk like a map view? I just think that that better understand a real life picture of what what we're looking at. That way Kevin doesn't have to drive out there in the morning and we can make a decision tonight if we can. Yeah. Scroll into that intersection if we can with Ferdick. And there we go. Yeah. It's kind of strange. So, south of Ferdick, you've got the sidewalk dang near all the way up against Michigan Avenue, but yet you've got probably 8 foot off the road, would you say? Um, maybe 5t, I don't know what is that north of Fern. So, that's a swell. That's where water sits. So, if you eliminate that, the road will not even it will pond worse. So, that's when I tried to tell this. I haven't changed my tune on I know they've been working on this from the get-go. So, in all fairness to people that were not on council, when we tabled this the first time in August, the comprehensive map was even wrong. They had it up here as high density and I came up here and pointed it out and that was the city's map telling me that this was high density that they got up

and said that was wrong. And this is why it was tabled the first time because if we're rushing through things that quick and we are bringing up valid points of hey this is the time to fix it or we can sit and complain about it the rest of our life. I thought development was supposed to pay for fixes to better our community. That's what I thought impact money was designed to do. So I don't know what the fix is. I'm not an engineer. to me. I mean, you're going to have to look at the the sidewalk flooding also. And I don't know if that's before the even if you move it up now, you're pushing kids to the edge of the road with people turning right. And I'm no expert on that either, but logic tells me I wouldn't want little kids that are really tiny closer to the road of a main road. But just things, you know, to think about. But in all fairness, you know, we we have been going through stuff, but we haven't been changing our mind on any of this from day one. Even when I reached out to the builder from the get-go on my own time when they first put the application in, I told them our concerns in this area. And to their point, they are directed by staff. And I think from my end, I come talk to you as council. you all give direction and we've been working when we've met with the developer and it's like we're not even heard and they get the blunt of it because they go back and say what we ask them Michigan estates all the residents and then we come to the meeting and we see the same thing up on the board and worse the first original plan did not even have Delaware going through so it's like you when we do give direction like these are concerns it gets worse for us when we bring up stuff instead of better. I haven't seen anything change for the better of fixing any existing problems in this area. Uh, Council Member Urban,

I have a question for a possible solution. And again, I'm not an engineer, so maybe this won't work. Uh, but can can the sidewalk kind of jog in to line up with Yeah, you'd probably have to start like 10 foot back in like here to line up there. You do that. applicant. Yeah, maybe maybe cut out that corner of your burm and and yeah, I think as you you see we're all talking the same language here. Yeah, we're trying to straighten that. I know it's an existing condition. It's not being caused by us, but we're already we already said we're we'll go ahead and try to fix this. What's the best solution? I don't think we'll all probably come up with the best solution right now, you know, without actually looking at it. We've picked up survey out there. We have spent time out there trying to understand this because it was raised as a concern. So we'll we'll come we'll we can fix that. I know there's a solution. Is this you know the solution that if you show a solution to 10 people will eight of them agree and two of them won't or will it be a 640? I don't know which engineer is right which engineer has the best opinion. You know that's kind of all subjective. you know, we're willing to work on this. You know, if we can get a, you know, approval and with a condition of us coming in at final engineering and coming up with an agreeable solution that betters the situation, can I say that we're going to solve that 100% and it's going to be the best intersection and crosswalk and stop bar situation in in the city or county? Well, that may not be feasible. Can we come up to a solution where we have an improved situation, an improved safety situation that, you know, we're not, you know, negatively affecting it? I guarantee we can do that. Yeah. And to council member Urban's point, I I believe there's a solution with doing that. Melissa, can I ask you to come up here real quick?

Um, within the code, you know the code better than anybody in the room here, uh, the land development code. So that sidewalk, is that in the sidewalk that's up against Michigan, is that in accordance with our current land development code, how we build our roads? If I could defer to our public works director, that's actually his area of expertise. Come on, back up. Well, and you know, sorry, I don't mean to belabor a little bit, but kind of take a step back. Also, I can see why the the sidewalks are the way they are. Um, just with the those little yellow lines or the basically the rideway lines. And so you can see they were trying to squeeze in a sidewalk into the area they had um when they when they built that on the south side there. Uh it's quite a bit smaller. Um typically um when you're talking about sidewalks, you want to have if if you do not have a vertical curb, you want to have at least uh two and a half to three feet of grass in between them to be able to provide that separation. Um it does not appear that that is like that. Um but is it but is it vertical curve? Is it an after curve? Okay. So I said, so I'm being told it is an F- curve, so you can put on the back side of the F-Burve. Um, so I think that that's how they they they got it in there was being able to do that. Um, so like I said, so that that that would meet our current standards u like you like we were talking before if we could straighten up the crosswalk either by taking one to the um I guess the the southern one to the east like council member Urban was saying or being able to take the northern one and get it to go to the west a little bit to be able to line those up. Um I think that will help be able to like I said make it a little bit more a little bit safer there for the the crossing so we won't have to cross at an angle. Um, and like I said, trying to make it as as safe as we can. Okay. No, I would agree with Council Member Urban. I think we can put that uh a condition on that. Um, I think the question I had for Melissa was if we were to make it put a condition in there

to essentially straighten out somehow cut out the corner with the sidewalk and connect and straighten out that crosswalk. Um, that's something you can work with your staff to ensure that that's accomplished. Yes, sir. We sure can. If if you add it as a condition of approval before we have the site development plans or the subdivision construction plans approved by our development review committee, which will be sent to Kevin's team, it'll be sent to the fire department and our team will also review it in accordance with the condition of approval. Then um we will be able to ensure that. Okay. And how far back would they have to start the the cut in that corner to be able to to straighten that out? By looking at that, what do you think about 10 ft? Yeah. And you know what I'm saying? Like would have to start here. That's a sidewalk that's coming down an angle. So they got to get right. And and it doesn't always have to be angled. It it could be more of a a kind of it could be parallel along Verdict Road also to be able to kind of go up and be able be able to go across. So it doesn't always have to be straight angle there. Um there are probably just a couple different solutions. I said it doesn't always have to clip that corner. It may be able to kind of do maybe a it's called an S an S-curve where you kind of go kind of kick back and forth as opposed to a straight line. So there there are some different uh geometries that that I think would help minimize impact in the project but also help lining up the uh um the the the sidewalk there to be able to make it uh safe for everybody using that area. All right, Mr. Ferdick, do you have a comment on that real quick? Yeah, just is there. Is there a sidewalk fund still? Is there money for sidewalks? City manager, there is a sidewalk fund. I'm not sure how much is in it. Our fire our finance director is here. I don't know if you I think this is a win like it's a twofur because this road project and I know none of y'all were here but this is what

got me to run for council this project Michigan estates which Dan was happy to see me on council when I came on and still to this exactly so just being funny Dan I know so but Michigan estates came in as high density also that didn't fit the land code they did the same thing on the map and tried to push it off as high density which agricultural R1 at the highest. But when they came in to do this project, it we don't know why they realigned this road other than there is a curb drain. If you look close on that map, I don't know why that drain would make the road a line different, but it seems pretty simple just to redo the the whole intersection there to make it work. And and I know it sounds easier when you just say it. I know there's more to it than that and money, but the po purpose of me asking about the sidewalk fund, there is money that we can help development while they're there to do the work and we help pay for it or give them credit or whatever it is to get the this system right. And if we eliminate the other access down Ferdick Road, you wouldn't have to pave all the way down Ferdic Road. You could leave it the rough milling asphalt because the fire truck doesn't need to come down there doing the hammerhead inside the development now. So that money that you're saving there, you can put it all at the entrance here and fix it. There's a lot of solutions of way to skin this cat, right? To get a good solution, move the developer on. We put, you know, the suggestions I threw out there, fix this and get the developer moving on with conditions. I mean, I'm good long as no, you know, the parking lot gets moved. I think that hammerhead at the long end would help and I think we're there. I mean, if the developer is okay with that and y'all are okay with it, I mean, I have no problems moving them on. But if

this is just a zoning, we're just talking R1 if that's all they want tonight. I'm okay with the zoning going R1. It's low density. I'm not against development. I'm just trying to get what is wrong kind of fixed in the area that was done because of development that Michigan Estates came in and realigned that road for what reason? I don't know. Some direction was given there. Okay. Um so really what we're looking tonight for is approval for zoning and the PSP. I I I think if we were just looking for zoning I feel like I'm not speaking for anybody here, but no one's ever had a problem with the zoning. We could have done that and I'd be in a different uh situation than I am right currently right now. Um I'm basically out of time in this project to get some conditions of approval because we're so far along. I I've I've actually never been this far along to try to get a zoning PSP on any size project that I've been. And I'm not saying it's not complicated because there's off-site issues that are being raised. Um so like I said, we're willing to do a lot of things here. We already made a suggestion that we're willing to work on this situation. I I don't really understand. I'm not an engineer, but I don't understand being on site and looking at it. The alignment of the south doing much because the stop bar current situation is because of the sidewalk on the north. It's not really anything to do with the south. The sidewalk's already pushed up to a graced curb. So, I don't really understand whatever we do on that side doesn't really change the stop bar on the north side. But, so we're willing to do a lot of things here. We're willing to go ahead and adjust the fire hydrant on the north side to make the sidewalk work. We'll look at clipping on the south side if that is determined the best solution to resolve the situation. I I don't really want to get to the situation where we're out here trying to do an entire intersection improvement with multiple roads and and and different jurisdictions and things that that you know our traffic counts on for this project is dimminimous. I'm not saying it's not going to add traffic, but it's dimminous. It's a third lot project. Um,

I'd be willing to to make uh, you know, a commitment to to dedicate um, money to that sidewalk fund if is this maybe a solution that goes into that fund and it gets used for a future u side uh, improvement. Our finance director is right there if you have your checkbook. Like I said, we're willing to do that. I'm already obligating a sizable amount of cost by moving utilities, moving fire hydrants, relocated sidewalks, moving stop bars. It's like so I'm trying to find a common ground here. Like I said, I we are looking for, you know, you know, a motion and hopefully a vote of approval here for zoning and PSP. Okay. With the caveat that we work with this final site development, final engineering plan to find out what's the best solution here to move forward and and leave leave this intersection in a better situation than it currently is. Not a not in a worse. Um I don't think anyone's presenting trying to make this situation worse. Correct. We're willing to work with everybody to make it better. Yeah. I don't think anybody's disagreeing with with the number of homes on here. I think we're we're fine with the the zoning so far. Um, city manager, this comes back to us before final engineering. Of course, all of the Do we look at this again? Only if you make it a condition. Okay. Well, then I'd say we I think we've already talked about making a condition, putting a condition on there. I think we're immunable to that if we come back and work with staff and and work through the solution uh and and come back with that plan for to try to address this stop condition. Um, okay. Thank you very much for working with us on this. Um, yes, sir. Can Can you put the map back up there with the yellow lines on? Can Can we get your name in? Scott Glascock, 3074 South Delaware and 401 Clay Drive. Thank you.

Okay, first of all, thank you all again for entertaining all of this. We know this is this has been going around the mill for a while and we appreciate y'all taking considerations, understanding the Delaware was no advantage to anyone. So, if if I could just ask a couple of things. If you look on the west side of this map, the road that goes into the property that is not for sale. No one wants to get in that. If you go over five acres, that's five acres that I own. That's not for sale. I I Why can't you turn that yellow line up to the north? Adjust the sights. Have an entrance in that end. Squeeze the one the whatever that road to the east. Squeeze that in. Put the parking lot on the other side. And then you have a loop for the fire department. Would that make the fire department happy? They can go in and out between everybody. You also can adjust that end. They already said that pond is overbuilt. They can adjust that somehow. Pull that northwest corner in to make it a line with Michigan Avenue so you have a straight shot in there. There's no zigzags or whatever. You just adjust that corner where there's a slight turn and they can go into that. You do not need another road going into property that you don't have. You can call it future connections or whatever you want to call it, but you're talking south of it. The side the the parking lot.

Well, the road that goes south into the property that you're calling future development. Which one is that? I'm sorry. to the south of that the where the road turns where Jarm wanted the parking move the parking lot too, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're I'm looking at Jarm's map which is opposite of theirs. So that's where Yeah. Yeah. So I'm looking at the bottom one. Yeah. The bottom one. So that road will go into nowhere. Mhm. There there's no access for the fire department. If you flip it to the north and connect it with Ferdict Road, put the lot that it would go through to the south, then you have a road going into that development and it can go all the way across and can touch every house and go out the other end. If there's a future development and somehow somebody wants to connect it, you can squeeze it by the pond. I Well, I I think with Mr. Ferdick's uh idea, what he he didn't want the access over there on that end. On what end? That on on the east end. Okay. I'm talking about the west end. So, we're So, you're saying go down. Go down. Go down. Go down. There you go. Nope. A little bit left. These are just two different. There you go. Now, you take that that road that you have dead ending into property that is not for sale. Flip that road to the north to connect it to Ferdict. Okay. Take that lot. That's right under your pencil and put it on the other end. And what have you lost? Nothing. It's probably too close to the intersection. To to what intersection? Michigan and

the other Michigan. And then standard design is you're going to want to line your entry up with the intersection that's across the street so you don't have multiple intersections going down the roadway. Spacing does not meet any any engineering criteria. Michigan residents originally requested that be perfectly aligned with they spoke at the first meeting. Just a question on Jerome. Can you come up to the microphone, sir? Yeah. Sorry. I just curious on on Jerome's concept there where he moves the parking lot from the east to the west side. Was that also keeping the connection to the south? So you have the connection roadway to the road to the south goes away. Correct. Correct. I I don't have your CAD system. This is called cut and paste. So these are your measurements that fit on your map. Nothing's changed. So you have extra room on that stub out. I was just showing that your open space that fits in. So, yeah, you could do whatever you want with that. I was just showing the parking lot can go there and turn into a open green space. All right. Thank you. All right. Who wants to speak at the podium? Okay. Okay. So to his point, if if you swapped the parking lots, but either way, if you pulled the road in, left the parking lot over there, whatever is between there is still thing. But either way, if you and you can work out whatever thing, but if that road is there for no reason, why is it there at all? Okay, I see what you're saying. But you're going to do the hammerhead in there, right? So, so what you're saying is if it's only going to be in there for a parking lot and not a connection road, what's the point of Butre, why does it have to be there? You could go up to the north, but if you flip the road to the north,

take the parking lot out, put your lot back in, and pull this road in and put your parking lot on the end with where it's just a parking lot. There's no traffic. Pull pull your road to the east. Pull that in next to the other house to to the other lot. Put your little parking lot for everybody to park their cars in. Then you have a loop that satisfies the fire department. And then put your lot back over here. I see. Okay. Applicant. Yes. And then and and again hopefully that gives you room to pull your adjust your corner to match it up with Michigan and not have any problem. Um so a lot a lot of discussion again of changing a lot of things here. I'm glad we're having this. We've looked at a lot of different things. I've spent a lot more time on this project than I have on on majority of projects I do just to get it right. But um the couple I feel very uncomfortable with trying to flip that road and have that orientation on the north and have Michigan alignment, have another access point. We're too close to the intersection here. It gets us away from what the Michigan estates people originally asked us for. I I don't I don't see a positive outcome with that. If we're worried about the connection to the south and and and staff staff and council do not have concern with it, we don't. We had a similar site plan to the one that's the Jerome's concept there. uh five five concepts ago um with that parking lot down in that location similar orientation to the access there um we I think we potentially lose a lot here with this just quick looking at it because we've run this scenario so okay so I go from 32 um presenting 30 now might get 29 if we can get approval with the PS uh PSP with this orientation down condition of orientation doing the parking lot and south that connection and leaving Michigan our current access across Michigan State, which I think is

the best, safest intersection design. Um, and then we'll work to go ahead and get that fertic Michigan stop condition improved. Like I said, I'm like say I'm not going to say we're going to get that to be the best operating intersection there with the limited space we have. Don't really know what else we can really do here. What did you guys do to these guys before we got here? Yeah, just kidding. Yeah. Um, no. Uh, Council Member Urban, if you can go ahead and address. So, um, with respect to the gentleman that spoke, I I would agree with what Deputy Mayor uh, uh, Gilbert said, understanding the property is not for sale right now yet. It's going to be for sale at some point. So, I'd like to keep that connection to the south. I I like this concept that we have in front of us here. From what it sounds like, um, which one are you which one are you referring to? The bottom that Jerham's Yeah. his idea on that. From what it sounds like uh what the city manager said, if we request it as a condition, the the final plan can come back to us. But I think we can move this forward with these suggested changes tonight and and have them work with staff to make these adjustments before the final plan comes back to us. Um I would agree that we've uh went back and forth a lot and uh so I I would make a motion to approve this with those conditions. All right, we have a motion from second. Hold on one second just real quick because we all a lot of things and thank you very much. We do have a motion in a second. Hold on, please. Okay, so your motion is to item five on the public hearing, which is the zoning piece. Is that right? Yes, sir. Yes. Okay. All right. So, most of the discussion we're having is on the PSP side. So, if you want to take an act vote on motion, take the vote on that first and then we can talk about the PSP. Okay. All right. Take the vote on item number five first alone. That's the motion that Mr. That's the that one we don't have we don't put the conditions on obviously

the conditions will be on the PSP. That's how I understand the discussion. Okay. Uh so we have a motion from council member Urban and I believe we have a second from Deputy Mayor Gilbert for item number five. Um Madame Clerk, please call the role. Council member Paul I. Council member Urban I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. I. Council member Fletcher I. Mayor Robertson I. Motion carries 5-0. Okay. So and on the PSP, Mr. Urban, do you want to try this? Uh, and which item is that? That would be council action item one. Council action item one. I would motion to approve council action item one with the condition that the final uh final site plan comes back to us as well. That um that I'm glad you asked that because so are you approving the PSP and you just wanted to see the final engineering plans? That's what I understood earlier. No, I believe we want it to come back to us. Um Okay. for final, you know, with well, with the conditions, but so I think we want it to come back because what if it was something that it it didn't come out the way we we want it to? That's your prerogative to ask for that. We want I think we want it to come back, but go ahead and send them on their way today and and with the conditions to start moving on stuff and then but I think we need they need clarification. staff needs clarification whether you would want to see the final plan be consistent with the orientation reasonably consistent with the orientation that's in the document in front of you. Okay. Right. I would and to also address the intersection issues that you talked about. Yes, sir. And and we're just asking to clarify exactly we're getting there. That's what that's going to come in our motion. We don't want to engineer in completely again and have staff review and us go through months of it and come back in the city council saying, "Well, we actually wanted the concept A and not B." It just No, no, we're going to be clear with

that and and our staff and Melissa's going to truly understand what we're what our intent is with this. Yeah. And just for clarification, we're not asking for the PSP for coming back. We're asking for the final engineering site plan when staff approved to come. If if you you're going to the That's not what they said. Well, I think the potential action was going to be that there be conditional approval of the PSP with we're going to have to talk a little bit about make sure we identify the correct plan you want to include and further conditions on the final engineering plan coming back for your review. City manager, what was your idea? Well, I what was your thought? I I thought what I understood the council was that really you're directing them you're continuing it. You're directing them to come back with changes to to approve the PSP once you see those changes. That's what I thought you were basically asking for a minute ago. Council member, what I would like to do is to continue to move this forward um as our city attorney just recommended approve this PSP as we're looking at it right here. The bottom the bottom piece the bottom one the top one off the screen that's well that would have to be the condition. So this with the condition of the changes suggested by Mr. Ferdick, right? That would have to be the Yeah. Fixing the intersection at Michigan and and Ferdick and then the the south exit with the parking lot at the south end. That's what I would make a motion to approve. And then it comes back to us at final engineering for final approval. Yes, we can do that. Okay. You want to repeat that? So motion to approve council action item one uh with the conditions of changing it to this can I just say the site plan that's on the screen or yeah absolutely consistent with what

this site plan consistent with the site plan that's on the screen and to have the final engineered site plan come back to us for final approval. All right. And that also includes the sidewalk alignment. Uh, yes. Also includes the sidewalk alignment on the intersection of Michigan and Ferdict. All right. I'll go ahead and second that motion. Madam clerk, please call the role. Council member Urban. I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Hi. Council member Fletcher. Hi. Council member Paul. I. Mayor Robertson. I. Motion carries 5-0. All right. Thank you both. Appreciate y'all. I'm sorry. We have uh Moren, did you want to talk or is she good? Okay. I'm sorry. Just tell her for she'll tell you thank you for your your patience with us. Thank you for the developer working for both sides. Listen, y'all do a good job and sorry we took so much time, but I think you all did great by listening through all the concerns and it's a lot of pressure for these guys too, right? And they try to put it on you, which it's money. So, I appreciate your time. Thank you. Yep. Thank you. All right, we'll go ahead and wait till uh take a two second break here. Let's go and take a 5m minute break and uh we'll come back.

I think that's my problem. All right, we'll go ahead and call this meeting back to order. Can I pick up where we left off? And madame clerk, please read item number six into the record. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2025-51. An ordinance of the city council of the city of St. Cloud, Florida, amending and restating all sections of the city employees handbook providings for servability conflicts and effective date. Good evening. I'm Justin Klener, human resources director. Uh this ordinance tonight proposes targeted updates to the city's employee handbook. This is not a large rewrite like the one that we adopted in 2023, but rather a focused set of changes that reflect evolving workplace needs, employee feedback, and legal compliance. There are four primary updates I'd like to highlight for you this evening. First, we're proposing to extend benefit reinstatement to employees rehired within one year of separation in good standing rather than just the 30 days as previously allowed. This change restores their prior vacation acrruel rate and sick leave balance, recognizing their service and encouraging strong performers to return to our city. Second, we're proposing that employees who are required to perform work remotely outside of their normal hours, such as needing to log in to resolve an issue receive a minimum of 1-hour pay. The existing 2-hour minimum call back pay for needing to return to the work site will remain unchanged. This update ensures fairness and reflects how remote responsiveness becomes more common in some roles. Third, we're formalizing the vacation leave buyback program in the handbook, which was previously approved at your June council meeting. This allows eligible employees to sell back a portion of their acred but unused vacation, providing financial

flexibility for our employees while also helping the city to reduce its long-term vacation liability in our budget. And finally, we're making several minor policy updates to reflect recent changes in state and federal law and to formalize existing practices and procedures. These edits improve consistency, ensure compliance, and help keep our handbook current and easy to understand. Each of these updates supports employee engagement, helps us improve day-to-day operations, and ensures that we're using the city's resources wisely and responsibly. Staff recommends approval of this ordinance and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Yeah, it uh Thank you for all you do, Justin. I I just have a really rough time with number one. It it doesn't make sense to me. We're saying, "Hey, you can leave to go find an to find employment somewhere, and if that doesn't work out, come back and we're going to take care of you." Uh we offer uh great benefit package, very competitive sales, very good uh uh u uh uh retirement, very good sick leave. What encouragement are we giving somebody if they're not satisfied for a while and think the grass is greener on the other side and then they have to start mowing the lawn and they go, "Hey, we can just go back to St. Cloud and get reinstated. We get all our bennies back and we're good. We might even get a little bit more money. We need to have loyalty showed both ways. If we're going to be loyal to an employer, employee, then they need to be loyal to us. And I just say that from the private sector and at at council's advice. I don't think that should be done at all. And I yield back to you, mayor. Just can you bring that back up on the screen? Yes, of course. Sorry. And I think that's a valid um concern. Uh, Council Member Gilbert, uh, to be

fair in this situation, if someone leaves employment with us in good standing, right, they're leaving because they're resigning, maybe they found a better opportunity um that they felt was right for them, they still have to reapply for the position. It's not like they're coming back um and being reinstated without an interview, without any type of um application process. So, it's if they're vetted, if we felt like their performance was really good and they're back within one year, we felt like it was important to um recognize them for their service. If they're gone greater than one year, um that's where we think that to your point, they're starting over as a brand new employee. City manager, real quick, sorry, she I'm sorry. Add to it. Thank Thank you. Um I do agree about wanting to inspire loyalty. This recommended change really happened because of public safety. Um we had several um officers who left went to Orlando because of pay learned like you said the grass wasn't greener. Um and and it was I I think it helped I think Chief Gerky get the people to return so that he was able to bring back um experienced police officers versus someone with no experience. And we had the same situation with a firefighter um also who who left. We were able to to bring back years of experience where normally when we hire those public safety positions, we end up um hiring um people without years of experience which which can save lives and that that was the that was the basis. That is the purpose of this. Correct. Deputy mayor and and I think loyalty goes both ways. Uh, and I and I appreciate chief whatever everybody does. It has nothing personal, but I'm talking about every employee here. Do they not know how much it's cost us to reinter to re uh educate to

re get those folks back and then all of a sudden we got somebody to go, hey, and they don't know those 30,000 or $50,000 we put into that education and just because they got experience and can read our handbook and know our GIS system that they should be rewarded for that. I I I believe me, loyalty goes both ways. If we're going to be loyal to these employees, then they need to be loyal to us. But if they go on their way, pat them on the back, wish them good, and they apply just like anybody else as a new employee. Uh that's just my thought. It if we do this, we're rewarding people to test us. We're rewarding people to go out there and see if there's something better when there's not. What's definitely better than working here? Exactly. It's the safest city in the state of Florida and 34 safest in the country. Come on now. Who doesn't want to work here? It's the best place ever. Great city manager, attorney's been forever. He's He's older than dinosaurs like me. We got some great stuff going on. Wow. But but but but we've got to really consider in all true we got to consider loyalty goes both ways. And that's the only thing I have to say. And again, I love everybody here and I'm not faulting them. They go, "Hey man, I get a nickel over there. It cost us 50 grand." And they go, "Oh, that nickel wasn't worth it. I want to come back because I'm more qualified." Just think about it, council. At your pleasure. I I I do this for a living and I never welcome people back with the benefits they leave with because we give them so many good benefits they should never want to leave. I would yield back. All right. Uh Justin, what is the the current policy now for that that one item? The current policy is that if an employee returns uh after they left in good standing and they returned within 30 days, then that same provisions would happen. They'd get their vacation acral rate returned, their sick leave balance returned. So, it's currently a 30-day window in the in the policy. Okay. So, you're saying that sometimes people

will leave and within a month they they want to come back or maybe just after that so then they don't qualify for that because it's beyond the 30 days. Correct. Since I have been here for the last three years, um there has not been one situation where someone returned within 30 days. The situation has been, as the city manager mentioned, two public safety employees who have returned um within maybe nine months or so. You might correct me if I'm wrong, roughly 9 months or so. It was a reasonable amount of time that we considered re reinstating their benefits to that point. Yeah. I mean, that is a long time to be away though. Um, can I for absolutely you can and share anything but just a perspective. Sure. Yeah, the public's allowed to speak on this. I said this earlier, but I manage 330. Can we get your name and address for that? Kristen Nezo, 1018 Twisted Branch Lane. Um, I manage 330 people in a team of 650. Um, and we have people who potentially leave for reasons that are not because they don't want to work for me, for instance. Maybe they have a family um issue that's going on. They're not eligible for FMLA. They need to step away. If they were a good employee, I would gladly take them back and I would give them all of their benefits as I potentially could to get them back into my organization. So, just a potential outside. I know that the two examples were someone who left for potentially greener grass, right? But there are family instances that can come up. someone can leave because their family member is passing away and they want to spend that time. So I think there's there are potential other factors other than someone just looking for additional employment. So I would just say think about some of those instances. If you know a family member was dying, would you want to be able to leave your role and potentially if the role came back available join back to the organization

that you love and that you appreciate? Um, or would you want it to be kind of hindered because of kind of a sour grapes mentality as opposed to, you know, life happens and you have to take care of your family? Just a thought. All right. Thank you. Uh, deputy mayor, you know, it's not life happens. If something happens, there should be something in our briement u portion of our uh packet or a leave portion from a sick family member or sickness. This is America. Let's let's make it America. Let's not say, "Oh, it's okay, Johnny. You know, you didn't like us. Now you like us again." But if somebody's sick or there's briement, that should be a separate section from this employee manual. But to say, "Hey, I went outside and don't like it. I want back." You know, I've kicked kids out of my house and they've come back, but under conditions. But but you know, you got you've we've got to stand. We've got to stand at some place that we're not a stepping stone. We've got the best and safest. We got great training. We train somebody and then they leave and they come back and want to be reinstated. And what cost do we have every time an individual leaves? What's our training cost? Does that individual that leaves us for something else think that's just free? I just I get it and I I you know kumbaya you know let's all sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing sing together but this is this is business this is real numbers I I agree council member Fletcher I'm just trying to gather more information um what is the policies of other jurisdictions in comparison to this or we haven't looked at that I would not be able to speak to that offhand I do not know the answer to that okay uh deputy mayor uh Gilbert he he brings up some good points and and knowing what the current policy is, I think that's a

big gap in between the two. Um, I myself I think I think I I I'd like to research this a little more because I I understand both sides, but I I do also understand loyalty and but I do understand, hey, sometimes we want that good employee back. Um but that could be on a case- by case basis as well where absolutely you know the the hiring manager the city manager could make that call for some type of a um or the council could make the call through the city manager. So that that's that's why I think we need to talk about a little more. Correct. And I think to your to your point again is there's no if someone leaves employment here for whatever reason um again assuming that it's in good standing there's no guarantee that they're able to come back right. So they would still need to go through that process. They would still need to be vetted. We would still as the city need to determine, do we want to rehire you? So it would only be in those circumstances. You've seen my file mate. Am I able to come back? I've not read it. I'm back. Um so yeah, if we can do that, uh I I would go ahead and make a motion to approve all of them other than the reinstate vacation acral sick leave. I think we continue that one. Um but we approve the others for now. Is that okay? Is that something everybody would I'll go ahead and make a motion on that. A motion to approve minus the reinstating vacation approval and uh to discuss that at our next briefing, our next uh workshop that we have can be a future because our next one is Monday and Tuesday. Okay. It'll be a future one. So the next one where we have an open space to talk about it. Okay. Okay. Still need a second. Second. We have a second from council member Paul. Madame clerk, please call the role. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. I. Council member Fletcher. Hi. Council member Paul. I. Council member Urban. Hi. Mayor Robertson. Hi.

Motion carries 5-0. Thank you, Justin. All right. Madame clerk, please read item number seven into the record. Final public hearing for ordinance number 2025-52, an ordinance of the city council of the city of St. Cal, Florida, pertaining to enforcement of codes amending section 2-282, applicable codes and ordinances of the city code by adopting and amending exhibit A, revising the list of codes enforceable by issuance of citations providing for conflict ability administration administrative corrections publications and effective date. Good evening, Melissa Duncan, director of community development. The purpose of this ordinance is to adopt an amended list of codes that can be enforced by issuance of a citation. There are some existing codes that when they are violated, they are not currently enforced by citation but have now been added. Some of the proposed changes we are adding is keeping of pigs, hogs and other swine. Um other acts prohibited delinquent certificates of use pro. Um and then we have um removed the noise owners and leises responsibility and replaced it with maximum permissible sound level limits. We are also um adding open burning permits, emergency of burning, use of fireworks, extinguishment and suppression, public camping, special events, motorized mobility devices, requirements for watercraft rental businesses, and permits for watercraft rental businesses. The goals of this citation process amendment is to streamline the citation process, increase efficiency, and

contribute positively to the standards of a high-erforming government. Staff recommends approval of ordinance number 2025-52 and we are requesting that city council also approve ordinance number 25 2025-52 and staff is available if you have any questions. All right. Thank you. Melissa, can you go ahead and go back to the first one? I think we'll just go to one slide at a time if we can. I think Council Member Gilbert wants a clear definition as the pigs, hogs, and swans. I was but I I know how his mind works. I needed that second page there because I I I have to ask. Can you go to number second page for me? Yes, sir. Okay. Uh the um emergency burning of use of fireworks, a $500 fine. Is that in Oola County uh chief city manager or in St. Cloud? This would apply to St. Cloud County. This won't apply to them. I just got what Did we miss something? Yes. I I have a injury that I was making a joke about. There's a rumor going around. I don't know it. Did I miss something? No. Did you? Oh, never mind. Somebody had to make a joke about you sooner or later. All right. I don't think it's funny. I don't think Jason thinks it's funny. I can't believe he's laughing. He won't find it funny later. All right. Um, sorry, Deputy Mayor. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Let's get back on track here now. All right. So, um, so we're saying no use of fireworks. Now, what about during the times of New Year's and and Fourth of July? So, we're just going to we're going to close off fireworks from everybody. So, there's, as you know, there's statutory exemptions. The state law allows for use on certain holidays and certain days. So, the this wouldn't be enforced on those days. Okay. What about my birthday? Well, we're we're still waiting on that bill to be introduced to make that a holiday. Okay. So, New Year's and Independence Day are exempt from this. Yeah. I think it's July 4th, New Year's Eve. New Year's Day. New Year's Day. Yeah. So, there's Yeah. And I understand. We don't want a week after July 4th, you know, when you start hearing it going up all the time. It's like, "All right, enough. We get it." You know, I know they're trying to burn off old fireworks, but Yeah. and and really those I know it talks about fireworks, but most of those have to do with the recent open burning ordinance that you passed that put more restrictions on it. And as you recall, that ordinance required certain permitting, but it also had a provision for allowable open burning. However, with the provision that if it if the person isn't maintaining the requirements for open burning, the fire marshall or the fire chief can go in there and say, "Exing your fire right now." And if they don't extinguish the fire right now, they'd be subject to a fine under that provision. And this may be a dumb question. I know I have many dumb questions, but uh there's no say somebody wanted fireworks for a specific event like a a a celebration of something, a personal private event. Is there any type of permit or in a any kind of an area like distance away from homes or I don't know if that exists within our code? Jason Miller, fire chief. As long as I'm not involved, it'll be good. Um, yes,

there there is a special fireworks permit set up. Um, it happens quite often down at the golf course for people who are in love and get married and there's lots of fireworks. Um, we do fireworks standbys probably three or four times a year down there actually. Um, so yes, there is some provisions that allow for it in that those cases, but but only if they're in love or something to that effect. Yes. So, but yeah, um we do have provisions that allow for it. Okay. Thank you. They I assume they've got to be certain distance away from other homes if that's even granted. Uh, city manager, I I believe when we updated our special event ordinance, we also added the provision that people could um come to the city council and request a permit for fireworks because we were having requests at like Chisum Park that were on week nights and um we we were having complaints. So, we did recently add that also with city council approval. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm sure Jackie doesn't appreciate the fireworks at Chism Park during the week nights. Um the next one, extinguish it and extinguishment and suppression. That's what I was referring to earlier on. So if if a person is doing an open burning contrary to the to the city code, then the fire marshall gets to go in and say put your fire out basically. And if they don't, they can be fined. That's right. We spoke on this. So there's initial warning on Yeah. And all in all the citation process, there's an initial warning. Okay. And and basically it says if you don't comply, we're going to issue a citation. Okay. Is there another page past this one, Melissa? All right. Yeah.

Okay. The the motorized mobility devices. I that that that's kind of like at the lakefront if Yeah, that's the ordinance that was passed recently with regard to the operation of uh certain vehicles on the lake on the trail. Okay. Yeah. Before I get I I know they're still having issues down there. Um I got a call this morning about that. Um police chief. Yes, sir. Uh Doug Gerky, police chief. Yes, mayor. We're actually we're working on the signage as we speak. So there will be signage going up down there. We're perfecting the signage um to get that going right away and then we will be providing additional resources down there. Um I was actually along Lake Shore driving there myself just uh yesterday morning and we're watching for those. I promise you we do. We get a lot of the complaints um when we get down there. Unfortunately, they're difficult to find. So, we'd have to actually put law enforcement officers down there on those paths um just about all the time to try to catch these people as they come through. So, but I promise you it's uh it's on our radar and we're working on signage uh to get this up almost immediately. So at least people are aware of it, what it says, what the restrictions are, so they can start hopefully self-regulating themselves before we would have to actually intercede and actually speak to them. Okay. Yeah. Maybe during the the summertime when school's not in session, we move the school cameras down there and catch them speeding, take pictures of them. That's a joke. I know we can't do that. We have our DFR program, so we can put them out to the drone first responder. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Deputy Mayor Gilbert, I I would just like to um incentivize that mobile um devices as the $25 fine and raise it as a cule because uh you know, catch me once it's 25 bucks, but when you start getting to people's pockets, it seems that they comply a little bit more. And I would like to the pleasure of the council to look at second offenses and third offenses at a higher fine if if you would please. That's my only suggestion to this page. What would your recommendation be on

that sir? Double double double. So this the second offense 50 100 two because you know I mean 15 year olds got 25 bucks cash when they have to go ask mom and dad for some money and they might get spanking you know. So I'm just trying to deter this. Well, and I think there there's some adults as well that that are on these things and um you know, they take that instead of a road. Exactly. I'm okay with that. I believe um Mr. Maintenz, I believe we'll have to have a maximum on that. Yeah. So, if you want to just have You can't just 5,000. Well, no, the maximum for any of these is 500. Okay. So, um, and and that's why you see the more serious fines, the ones related to fires and and and those kind of things are the $500 class 4 fines. So, we could put in there that this was a class one for the first offense and then a class two for the second offense and a class three for the third offense. Class three is the 500. No, class four is the 500. Class three would go up to I think goes to 250. Okay. Okay. I'm fine with that if that's I mean that'll definitely prevent them from breaking the law four times or should deter them I should say not prevent them deter them. All right. Um would you like to make a motion on that with those conditions with the the condition or with the addition? Yeah, with the addition. Are we done? Is this the last page? Okay. I would like to make some uh I'm sorry. Uh would uh anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? Good. Okay. Sorry. Motion to approve with conditions. Second. Uh we have a motion uh from Deputy Mayor Gilbert with the conditions of the uh step up on the fines for the mobil the what was that device?

The the the mobile devices. Not mobile devices. Motorized mobility. Motorized mobility. You took it off the page. Motorized mobility devices. And and we have a second from council member Fletcher. I'm sorry. Who made second? Council member Urban. Madame clerk, please call the role. Council member Fletcher. I. Council member Paul. I. Council member Urban. I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Hi. Mayor Robertson. Hi. Motion carries 5. All right. And now we've got council action. And I am I need to change out one page here. All right. And madame clerk, please read uh public hearing number two. Discussion and possible action regarding the appointments to boards and committees with vacancies for historic preservation board and recreation advisory committee. All right. And dep clerk, you get yours first. Uh yes. Uh for historic preservation, if we could just make the two appointments and then we'll motion at the end, that would be great. Uh do we have to vote on those second uh separately? Uh no, you well two boards individually. Yes. Okay. You can take one motion for each board for one slate of boards. Okay. Uh Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Yeah. The for the U council's pleasure, I'd like to ask that alternates be moved up to the vacant slots. Some are at large and some are are are appointed by certain individual council people. But I think the alternates deserve the opportunity to fill vacant spots and

therefore we can somebody that would would like to come to the board after would go into that alternate spot. I just think that's fair and I think that's just that we need to do that and I just had the pleasure to c uh council ask if we could um would we have to change that Dan? How would we have to change those appointments? would do it. Well, you can just make the appointments right now based on the But I mean, if we do this for the future, so it always happens if the council wants to establish that as a formal policy. Yes, I would like to. Yeah. Yeah, that's my ask question. We're going to ask the staff to bring that back. I think that's an amendment to the Yeah, we'd have to have to work on that. That's not just yeah for that because you have there are certain boards you have you know you you have appointments to and so we'd have to have a formal policy on that so we can bring something you know the thing is there there are some members that even though they're on there as ultimate alternates they may not be active so then if we automatically do it then they still may not show up I'm sorry mayor I talking about right of refusal oh the alternates have the right of refusal to take that vacant spot especially during Well, they still may take it, but they may not be as as active as we'd like them to be. Do you see what I'm saying? There may because the can be silly though if you want, hey, I want to come up to board and I'm not Oh, I I'm not saying it hasn't happened. That's why we've had to make changes, right? I'm not saying it hasn't happened there. I'm just saying I think Well, I I think that that's I would agree to midyear like this to move them up because they're active um to evaluate them that way. But the difference is when we have these are at large, but then when there's designated seats and they're vacant and there's alternates, the our seats, we should have the right to appoint who we want for our seats because these are not at large seats. That's why I was asking council, there's some at large and some also. Also to put a caveat on that, mayor, uh if we do

take an alternate and move them up to they can go to the full term of that that commitment to the next uh voting time where their uh expires that their comm commitment expires. So if someone's midterm like you said that they fulfill that commitment till the it gets voted upon again just suggestions to make it easier but just to move this process. So if if we're moving and and I think this is where we're when we start looking at this. So if we're talking for for instance alternate one Elizabeth Lamog Lamug she's currently active on the historic preservation board and there's an atlarge seat that expires in the same time frame as her current seat but the seat two on historic preservation expires in 2028. How do we handle situation like that? You can move her right into seat two if you want. Okay. and then it'll expire in 2028. So she she filled the unfulfilled seat and then she'd be eligible for reappointment in 2028. Okay. Would you like to make a that that's a pleasure to council. That's what I was trying to do to get those seats filled prior to uh re reelecting. Yeah. And you can make those motions now and and say can we do alternate that one that you would you like to appoint? If if I could at the ones at large, I would ask uh uh council person Paul to look at the other one with the alternates at at the recreation advisory committee because that's her vacant spot. But can we stick with one? Yeah. We'll talk about historic preservation. We've got two current alternates, two vacants, and then what we're going to have to do is fill the alternate seat. That's correct. Exactly. So, um so I'll go ahead and make the motion just to go and move it along. Uh alternate seat one, Elizabeth Lug to seat number two. Um, and so that leaves the other vacant one, as uh, council member uh, or deputy mayor Gilbert stated, uh, alternate two seat Carmen Hernandez, moving that to seat 7. That's what you want. You were looking at uh, Council Member Paul, you had some

comments. Um, I do have comments in regards to that. Um, the only thing is we should also pay attention to whether they're active or not because it doesn't make sense to move someone who's only coming to the meetings one time and not showing up for the rest and then you're going to have that same problem moving them up. So, that would be my only concern with that. So, okay. I don't get to ask this question much. May I ask during council to councilwoman Paul? So, the alternate members that aren't going to the meetings, is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay. And that that makes sense. Sometimes alternate members don't uh go to go to meetings until they become members, but that makes sense to me. Uh Metro Plan, I was an alternate member, but I had to go to every meeting until when that expired and that took over. So that you want to be active in that and also confirm with them if that's what they want to do because I've seen it before where someone was moved up and they didn't want to be on there. So, I think confirming with them if they would like to be moved up to one of the seats um before actually moving them up. Okay. Thank you, Mayor and Councilwoman Paul. That makes sense. I just want And once you bring that up, I I do know that there are some that just kind of write out the rest of their term in an alternate seat and don't want to go to the run for a regular seat in the future. Uh Council Member Urban. Yeah. to council member Paul's point. Um I see there is a individual on here that's only made one of five meetings. Um and I think looking at that if somebody can't go to at least half of the meetings or 50% of the meetings, they should be reconsidered for a position as well. Just me. Uh city manager. Thank you, mayor. I I just wanted to to clarify um the suggestion that was made by Councilman Gil by Deputy Mayor Gilbert is is actually the previous direction that we were under um before the

transition in in council. It it was that when it was an atlarge appointment, we moved automatically the alternates up to voting seats. Um difference is we were not checking the um attendance like you're saying. So, I like that. I like that new change, but I did want to I did want to point out that for the atlarge appointments, that's actually how we used to to do it um up up until recently. Um so, um it would be easy to start doing that again, but I like the addition of of ensuring that they have good attendance, right? But I think there's more than just good attendance. I think it's um I think it needs to come back to us, you know, not just an automatic and within staff and saying, "Okay, they're automatically there." I think I think it just needs to come right back to us. Anyway, the we do need to fill the alternate one. Now, let's talk about number six. What is the the the rules on these boards for attendance? So, say it's one out of five. Are there only five meetings? There's So, she's only been there's only been five since she's been on the board in 2023. I think there's been more, right? I don't see the attendance. She was appointed 2023. Her term expires 2027, but it says one out of five meetings for seat number number six, actually. Yes. And and that was something that I had privately brought to some of the council members attention last time. I'm I'm not sure how she got I guess she got reappointed, but I did I did bring it to um several council members attention before the meeting last time when we were doing appointments. So, do we know if she was at the last meeting? No, she was not. She was not. That's right. You were there. You were there too. I was. Okay. I think we'll we'll probably discuss that one in the future. Um she So, she's she's still not showing up to meetings and and we do want a full slate up here if we can or as to the best of

our abilities. Right. That's it's a quasi judicial board. It's important. Um you know, historic preservation timelines, that's that's where I get complaints from people. And if we can't hold a meeting to give them a decision, um it it does it does cause complaints. Yeah, I know the chairman's a little goofy, but um no offense. Um no, I I agree with you. So, we we'll talk about number six um another meeting, I think, when we get more information. But do we have uh any suggestions for alternate one and alternate two seats since we move those two up? Well, what you know, these both were appointed in in May of 2025. Both of the alternates, weren't they not? Right. And we've moved them up. We got Elizabeth up number two. And then Carmen, is that seven? Is that what you told me, Mayor? That's correct. Okay, good. Perfect. I would go ahead and suggest Victoria Moore to alternate one. Second. Okay. And then we have to fill alternate two. Council member Urban, sorry. Um, uh, alternate two, I would do the, um, the first name on the list, Eaterina. Eater. And also, uh, to the point about seat six, um, if that person doesn't show up to the next meeting, can we have this brought back to us to reappoint that position? Is that reasonable for the council? I think that's fair. Dane, if that's something that we can do at any moment at any point. Okay. Yeah, we can have that. And I think she'll have another opportunity to attend another meeting before our next meeting. Okay. So, we have Victoria Moore for

alternate one and uh Ecatina Echalova for alternate two. And so we'll go ahead and um we got the motion from well there was two of us that can I get a motion to approve the slate of all of them? Motion to approve. Motion to approve from council member Urban. Second. Second from council member Paul. Madame clerk please call the role. Council member Paul I. Council member Urban I. Deputy mayor Gilbert. Hi. Council member Fletcher. Hi. Mayor Robertson. I. Motion carries 5-0. And council member Paul, do you have somebody you'd like to nominate for your seat too on the recreation advisory committee? Crystal Rosario, she also reached out. She confirmed with me and she's interested. So, all right. And I believe we do need to vote even though it's council member Paul's to have to confirm it. Yes. So, we'll go ahead and would you like to make the motion for Crystal? Yes. Motion to approve. We have a motion from council member Paul. Second. Second from council member Fletcher. Madame clerk, please call the role. Council member Urban, I. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, I. Council member Fletcher, I. Council member Paul, I. And Mayor Robertson, I. Motion carries 5-0. All right. And there are no first readings and introductions at this time. And city manager, do you have anything for us? I'm sorry, city attorney. That's right. You're first. I do not. Oh, well, I do have one thing. I would let the council know that the Savannah Park Homeowners Association did approve the uh the agreement that we offered with regard to the acquisition of a property for the Ruml Road Trail. So, we will be moving forward with closing that and um move forward with that project. Other than that, I don't have anything else. Thank you. All right. And city manager, thank you. Um I wanted to point out that the GIS hub is now live on our city website. It's a great source for additional information. Um, staff's been

working on that for a long time. So, I really encourage people to go there. I think it'll help answer a lot of questions that people have. Um, additionally, I did go to the July 4th event. I didn't stay for the fireworks. I obviously wish I had. Um, but while I was there, it was a great event and kudos to staff. Thank you. All right, Council Member Paul. Yes. So, I have a few things. Um, Monday, I know we have our budget workshop. Um, I do have some pres-scheduled appointments where I won't be able to attend the workshop. So, please forgive me for that. Um, second, I did speak with Durk and Rep. Stark Paula in regards to the St. Cloud Main Street and St. Cloud Chamber. I think we've come to an agreement now that we can get them on the calendar for workshop for August if possible. So, I do want to address that. And lastly, um there has been some concerns from residents um in the area in regards to something that was done over years ago. So before people get in the uproar about it, um this is regarding um a section in St. Cloud that's considered color quarter. Um it was brought to me by some individuals asking when city of St. Cloud was going to update it. Um I did work with did my research um homework on it. There are a couple of articles from 2007 where residents in this area did address their concern back in 2007. Um I think it's time that we address it and you know when residents come to me with their concerns as an elected official is my job to bring it back so that way you know we can discuss it and address it and move forward. So, um, my recommendation is to update the legal description on it. This is addresses for, uh, Myrtle Avenue and Pine Avenue,

um, off 10th Street. There's one property off 10th Street as well. Um, it's about 31 properties. And, um, I would like to see it, um, change from colored quarter to East St. cloud quarter being that um when I check the deeds on these different properties they all consider reflected as um East St. Cloud. So I think it's appropriate to just stick with East Scloud quarter and updated on the legal description. I also spoke with city manager and city attorney and um before we get you know move forward with this. I think it's also appropriate to get the residents in this area to a town hall community to share update with them on what the plans would be so that way they can hear it from the city of St. Cloud and not you know out elsewhere. So those are my concerns. So yes ma'am and I agree with you. I actually brought that to the attention to the city manager, not this city manager, back in 2017, Joe Henberger, um that area and and I believed it needed to be changed then. But was there is that a historical black area? Like was it? Yes. So that was designated for the um blacks in St. Cloud during that time. Um actually it was nice to read one of the articles where um Ociola County Commissioner Ken Shipley did make a comment about it should be updated. you know, I'm not sure who's using the term colored these days in 2025, but um it's, you know, time to update it and let's correct it and move forward. So, yeah. Yeah. And maybe if we can see if we can find some more history on, you know, if there's anything historical more about that, but I do I I agree that definitely needs to change. you know, we don't want to change it and forget about it obviously um about if it's a historical area, but I think um I do think the name needs to change. I think you're right.

So, thank you to Lissa. She's a St. Cloud historian and she also provided me with um actually this cool little map that showed from 1910 um how it was actually platted. So, um I think it's um just time to address it, update it, and let's move forward. So, I agree. And so, do we go ahead and make a motion on that? Well, we're going to, as Councilwoman Paul just pointed out, she has a copy of an old plat. It was platted like this year. So, it's going to have to basically be replplatted and that's going to be a process that we're going to have to work through to do it. Um, I think her idea of having a community meeting is vitally important because the individual owners of that property are going to have to participate in one form or another. Uh, when we go through the replanning process. So, uh, we we would I think the council is in favor of moving forward with the process and we'll work through it with staff and figure out the best way to do it, but we'll it's going to take a little bit of time. It's not simply just renaming it because we have to go through the plat process and there are several different there are multiple property owners there that would have to agree to the replat as well as you know some other folks that have interest in the property. So we'll work through it though. Yeah. Um are all of the the with the legal description are they all annexed in the city by now? All the properties we're talking about are in the city. Yes. Okay. There's no there there are no more with that description in the county. So we've kind of this will take care of that whole that area. Okay. Yeah. cuz I know um someone said to me that the county told them that it's no longer updated. It doesn't show that on there, but when you go on Ocola Property Appraiser and type in that, it does pop up. So, it shows up. It does. We have a direction. We're good. Okay. Thank you. All right. Council member Urban. Thank you. Um so, when I ran for this position, I pledged to always prioritize public safety. I think that's a

commitment that we all share up here. Um, across the state of Florida, including our friends and neighbors over in CMI, uh, there's been a growing trend to look at, uh, the firefighters work schedules. Um, I'd like to ask the council to consider conducting a study to evaluate the feasibility and staffing requirements and potential cost of implementing a similar model in our city. I think this would help us proactively address possible recruitment and retention challenges in the future. Um, as the industry continues to evolve, I think I I believe it will benefit the city to lead the way in prioritizing health and well-being of our public safety personnel and remain competitive in a changing landscape. So, I would just like to see if the council would be interested in conducting a study just to look at it, see um what our possibilities are. We're not committing to anything. We're just looking at um um how we can uh make something like that work. So, Okay. And what does that entail? City manager a study? Uh I guess essentially we're going to look at the study done by city of CMI and try and find a way. Do we do that or we would have to hire somebody to do the study? Preferably we would try to hire the same consultant that the city of CMI utilized um with a similar scope and and do we get a discount because we're probably not neighbors. Probably not. And then we would we would end up h probably having a workshop with the city council to review the findings. Um and we'll probably at that point need direction on on you know what you want us to do. It'll it'll it'll be a it'll it'll take some time. Okay. What is the the when you say some time, what's the typical what did they what did they go through over there? I didn't really follow their their study period. Uh there's somebody that's telling me it took eight months. Um I thought the I I I was told by the the

city of CMI is 18 months in total when they requested the study till when it was complete. Okay. That just that is not verified by any it was just me talking to a firefighter in the city of of CMI. That makes sense for adoption. Yes. Right. So it would make sense the study might be the the eight months and then the workshop and the direction concept to completion and the study. Okay. No, there's absolutely no wrong with uh getting as much information as we can and doing a study. I would agree with Council Member Urban on this. There's not um I think we should move forward on a study and kind of see what that what that gives us. So So I believe I have Yes, I have direction. Okay, Council Member Fletcher. Um I just want to say um that Fourth of July was amazing. Um our team did an amazing job um putting on a wonderful show down at the lakefront and uh have a good night everyone. Deputy Mayor Gilbert Jen, I'll help you out with any community meetings we need to have uh to um have the residents uh and meet with them and I'll go door to door if you want to uh tell them why we need their support to change the plat. So just so I can say that in front of the DAS. I can't do it much, but I'm I'm with you. We'll get that done. Thank Uh I I didn't know if everybody knew this, but I said it I think 22 times that um city of St. Cloud is the safest city in the state of Florida and it's due to everybody here u our chiefs and also the U staff and everybody here and that's huge and that's uh in 34th in the country. Uh we got neighboring cities that are in the twos and 300s but we're not going to mention that. But I love being a resident of St. CL I feel safe. Thanks, Chief. Uh uh I did pass out some um some uh information from Metro Plan and where

there pie charts of of dollars coming to the ACOA county. Uh it's not just myself. There's many county commissioners and many people on the 22 uh member board of of metrop plan have been working for years. There's $2.3 billion dollars of allocated funds. This is the first time that Ocelola County will be as much or close to as Orange County as funds giving to to us. So that's the hard work of the individuals that came before me and coming. But I'd like to discuss that at a further workshop. I just want to give you that information prior and I think the city manager had worked with Kelly and getting the maps that were drawn out from uh Mr. Fisher that uh um ASO County that for the maps for the future areas and if I did not pass those along uh I'll go through the city manager and make sure you get it. It's all the roads and fair uh thorough affairs through through county but through metrop plan if you look at those stats and I I don't I don't get to talk to you guys much but look at them you'll be surprised and if you want to look back this is the largest portion of the money we got from metrop plan CSX the turnpike and all the other entities federal and state governments for the assao county it's hard to say but it's going to take some time but we're getting money to build the infrastructure here and I just can't talk to you so I wanted to say it publicly and I yield back to Thank you, Mayor. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yeah. And thank you for everything you do with those folks up there. You know, I know that's it's way up in Orlando and you make that drive and we do appreciate you doing that. And um I I'll start off by saying, you know, Fourth of July was amazing. It's one of my favorite holidays here in uh Independence Day. And um staff did an amazing job. I know I saw Rose out there. I saw Oakley, you know, they shuttled people around and of course the police department. He had his whole team out there and I can tell you everyone was safe out there. They had drones in the sky, cameras everywhere. Everybody was uh was definitely safe and we had a large amount of people out there. Uh I

got to judge the car show and that that was a tough one though. Um also um I wanted to thank the staff that attended the Ocula update for us today. Uh the chief was there and I believe Melissa and Scott and a number of others. So, uh, we have a sometimes we get a lot loaded on our plates and and, uh, so we do appreciate y'all going out there for us. So, um, with that, I believe that everybody's got all their comments in and we have our information section and report section. So, we have uh, reports. We have warrant list number nine uh, for fiscal year 25, 2025. Uh, Monday, July 14th, 2025, City Council budget workshop, 1 p.m. at City Hall, Council Chambers. Tuesday, July 15th, 2025, City Council workshop, 9:00 a.m. at City Hall, Council Chambers. Thursday, August 14th, 2025, City Council meeting, 6:30 p.m. at City Hall Council Chambers. And this meeting is adjourned. Thank you, Mayor. Good job.