Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Second. Anyone? Second. Second by Norm. Any discussion? All in favor? Everyone was good. Okay. First is number one. Now, I just talked to Bob. We've already done this lead agency. Well, it came to you when I That's really what purpose of that original was. And somehow tonight we're done, but you guys have been working. Okay. So I don't need a a vote or a motion on that at this point.

It's it's literally you know the town the the purpose of that was the town board didn't intend to declare legad and solicit comment. So by sending it to the planning board they started that process with so basically until you render comments that's what's going on. Okay. So I'm going to just call that go ahead. Why does this law Why do these two laws need to be submitted to city? Why do they need to be submitted? The planning board is part of the new process legally binding with local law. You have seen draft local law. That was not the question. That was

any this is a secret. It's but they I'm confused they still get designated under under speaker is the requirement to solicit so and also in our local law is the requirement to seek comment from the planning right is that way to say it Tom

well both the adoption of the law itself and then any future site plan under the law both subject to the secret review. But how can we submit a law for review by SRA if we don't have a final submitt? I mean we're far from being complete with this these two laws. Well, we that's but it's it's comments on the draft. It's the same process we're going through now. It starts with just so town board's lead lead agency. Yeah. And then they're going to gather all the information before it can you as a interested party right

could do you want to explain you know better you you could basically say Tom board no right

we don't believe that you should be agent we have higher invested in you know it's not usual but here's an example where Tom Ford went on an action on a sewer project and the DEEC actually said, "No, because we are a fire authority that's actually doing the permits and stuff for it, we're going to be the lead agent. We're going to be coordinating and checking and following." Now, the town could concurrently run the planning board could concurrently run its own seeker process, but the town board is saying giving you the opportunity to comment to them or

object to the town being the lead agent or agree with them and provide the comments. I mean on a lot of projects the talent's the lead agent. I'm not so much worried about who's the lead agency in that but I'm just it's the process. I mean why are we submitting something with which is not final. We're still gathering information that will show up on number two of our I was going to say norm that norm the actual you're you're not actually being requested on the seeker process as much as you're asking to be to comment on the the the Yeah. Well, at this point, just the designation of the town as a lead agency contemplating the adoption of law.

Well, there really there really isn't even a you don't even you don't even need to say yes, we agree. You know, you don't have to respond with a yes to the town being lead agent. You could and you could say we agree, but here is our comments. And by by actually participating in the comments in the view of the law, you're actually Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to Yeah, exactly. All right, I'm going to move from one to two. There's mud.

Now on to we got the two older laws in our packets. Now the attorney is gathering more information and going to come to our February meeting and supposedly going to put everything together to present in February. So Dave gave comments which I sent Kristen Dave's email today to forward to Bridget O2. We gave comments two months ago. We gave comments which she said she's taken in all the information to try to redo the law to company comments. Yep. I believe she got the cab was good. The cab I

she got the cab. So there's really not unless someone has something else they want to add at tonight's meeting. There's really nothing for us to talk about until we see the law in February. Would it be worth to have the fire department come on? That seems to be the overall concern. Eric Eric, is he the battery guy that wants to do the project? Eric something Eric Akerman or something I don't know. Is he uh he's from out of the c out of the state somewhere his email Eric Anderson yeah he he wants to come to February's meeting as well

and I said that's like the more information we can he's senior project developer for this company so what's the process once all these comments are incorporated person's going to redo the law a draft will come back to us for review back to the conservation advisory board back to the fire department. Well, I don't know. It's really going to be here. It's up to us to incorporate their concerns. Okay. Fair enough. Anybody else?

Okay. I'm gonna There's really no vote on that as well. I'm going to move the Councilman Garcia's I'm going to call anformational packet. Um I think it addresses a lot of the things concerns that we brought up. This is really just his take on things. So I'm just going to call it received and filed something else. I guess I would ask Dave, what is the town board doing with our recommendation from last meeting? Um, I I don't know. I haven't heard anything. We've been busy article 78.

Well, so I mean your comments that have been provided the town board is last meeting to redo resend the law, rewrite it and bring it forward again. this point if any planar local law isn't.

Yeah, but we adopted it subject to they weren't going to write any tickets or act on it for a certain period of time while he was getting all these pieces put it put together. So, Yeah, I think if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, it gets approved at the town board and then once that approval is made, if it is made, which it was, then it goes through the system to get adopted, whatever the steps are that they've got to do the bidding program. Everything's got to get up

and get all done before the law can really say, "Okay, it's on the books and it's ready to roll." So, they're point. It's on the books. It's on the books. It's Yeah, it's on the books, but it's not ready to be used yet. That should have been done before you put it on the plan is what I'm saying. Right. Right. Those are the questions I have. It was approved, but they haven't got to the point where they can implement it yet. And it doesn't any of our comments? I mean, I have questions.

No, the the law would go through without our comments. Our comment was to resend the law that was approved that is not implemented and to redo the law and start over. That was and the town board's had a meeting since our last meeting and so no the town the town board didn't act make any comment about our that's when so I would say go ahead adopted the law knowing that ultimately this thing

I won't say knowing but planning to have it enforced on a complaint paint driven process which is probably nevertheless the plan was to spend basically a season for snow and ice and grass season and identify the number of complaints we received before he would implement before he would put the bids together at all. And last last KC said it was last in 2025 it was eight loans out of all grant out.

So wouldn't it have made sense to have all that data before we went and drew this law and voted on it really tracking violation. They weren't track. Yes Brad I think you're correct. Well, because I remember I made if they would have come to us in August, we would have had the laundry list. I I I made the same comments when we came up with the new local law about people selling things in their front yard. Remember that? Yeah.

And I said, "Is there really an issue with this?" I said, "Do we really need to do all this? You can't sell your neighbors tomatoes. Who's policing this?" All that stuff. I said, "Is there really a problem with this?" But we pushed that law through anyway. I just don't understand why. Well, this one got pushed through even harder. Yeah, I know. Why do we spin our wheels doing all this stuff and all right, so it's another law on the books that nobody's going to enforce. So why or is it just going to be selectively enforced? How about this? How about if we resend our comments to the town board for further action? Yeah, ask them. Ask them

say, you know, to give us some status of what's going on. of the whole thing was the building department's position that the laws as written did not permit them to afor enforce this in any way that by the time you get

that's the same questions we have Tom because we that's our question is the enforcement of it I've tried to go through Jose's words very much and this is really what I think more of the of the law is more for nuisance and getting on the property in a quicker more concise way. But I think that goes all the way around the questions as to how is this going to be enforced and what is the process going to be? You know, how is this lean word which somewhat was Jose clarified um with this document. It's more of a tax lean, but there's questions in here as far as how I mean there's levels I don't know what we should be asking and not asking because like you have in here that insure everyone's in here. He Jose is explaining that the town won't be responsible for anything that happens. This is just admin administrative within the building. But then there's there's language in here that he's trying to say that now the town is part of the insurance and how are the contractors there's a lot of stuff in here. What I'm trying to say and won't make this slide. what Jose gave us gave me even more questions and I wanted I want some guidance as to what exactly because we've given comments and we haven't gotten any real feedback of hey okay we get that we get that we're moving forward on this and why I think we're in a limbo here

part of that is way too far in the weeds for the planning respect the operation of a contract between whatever vendor the town works with we would have a defense and identification that's the arguments he's giving us and that's the arguments that's on us that's not right Right. And that's the arguments he's giving us throughout the question. That's not to say that that's far from saying that the Tom couldn't be sued if something happened because the town absolutely could be sued and will be sued if something happens. But he even mentions it in here. He mentions it in here, Tom, that they're going to name if they're going to come and cut my lawn, they're going to put me on the subcontractor's insurance. Additional insured. I didn't see that. I saw the town being added to additional

and and the person too. You know what that's going to be? I'm not saying right, but he's introduced that conversation and now we want to What do you Where do you want that insurance agent going to be driving the guard? Where are we supposed this and this?

It's not. They're simple riders. That happens more than when I say enforcement. I don't mean that stuff. I mean the simple part of getting a sidewalk shovel or a gra a lawn cut position the building department as the way the existing law was written because by the time they have to identify it or get a complaint go look at it and wait and then send the notice it's 30 40 60 days out before anybody can even be brought to court to enforce the laws that are on the building. Not this law in particular. This was designed to give the building department and again I'm not saying I'm but I'm telling you why this was inside this was designed to give the building department a more efficient means of enforcing laws that are already on the books the way it's written it's not very efficient. It's not very spelled out

compared to what we're dealing with. So supposedly if you don't cut your lawn, they got to give you 30 days notice and then they got to give you another 30 days notice that they're going to take you to court. Then it takes five months to get in front of a judge. Well, now we're in the middle of winter and when the judge goes, "Well, this is about cutting the lawn, so I'm throwing this out." And then the gr and the grass does the same. The snow melts, the snow's gone. So when I don't shovel my snow and it by the time I'm to court, we're cutting lawns. So they just throw the stuff out.

So it seems to me that they need a stronger enforcement policy, not necessarily a whole new law. Wouldn't it be easier just to do a That's just my opinion, a civil fine. That's what this is creating. No, but the the building department go there and tape a ticket to the door. You didn't cut your grass. Give them a give them a warning and they come back a week later if the lawn isn't cut. They get a fine. But what does it all mean? That's right. I I get it. So stack those up. How So your first one is x amount of dollars. Your second is doubled and you just keep and then it's a just a constant fine on the property. Find the people who owns the property. Well, going to go.

So it makes sense to go after taxes. They're paying tax, right? All those all those fines can go on their taxes. I think the law has to be written in a way where there's a procedure here, here, here. It doesn't need to be 15 pages of saying up this this procedure. Okay, this what's going to happen. Well, that's what we Well, I think we all determined that that law was So, how about we send the letter back to the town board and say, please give us some information on what's going on here. Chairman, respectively, I don't know if that's going to do any good. I mean, you spoke, you started back in September by giving us a report that the law had gone through without us having any input to begin with,

and you know, the response was if the town board wanted the wanted to change the law, they could do so after reviewing the town board's recommendations. Well, we've made some recommendations and we've heard nothing. We're asking if they'll answer us. Only thing we can do is ask. I know we're frustrated. All frustrated. I got that. So, could I just involve different? Yes. Supervisor potentially. Um, you were going about this strong way as far as us trying to cut people's grass who don't cut the grass. Why don't we just So, the the key is the speed of enforcement, right? I think that's what we talked about. We can't get there quick enough.

So, what if it's if we just were to change that and say, "Dave, you got to cut your grass. We put a note on your door. you got seven days to cut your grass. Otherwise, they're going to find you. Um, and then and if you don't cut it, you know, you get a fine. And if it goes another 14 days, well, guess what, Dave? Now you got this fine and that fine. And you just get progressive. You just start adding fines to it. Instead of us trying to find a grass cutter and us trying to find snow removal company, we just need a system where we can, right? Maybe that's pretty much what I saying all along. Yeah, we've been saying that all along. But we need we need a system where we can do it aggressively, right?

And we need a system that it makes sense to cut it today because if you don't in two weeks it's going to cost you this much more, you know? So, and then it it kicks in like I was talking to Tom about the water bill. It kicks in and goes goes over as a line item. I'll liken this to um the guy that's got 200 parking tickets. Mhm.

You know, finally when he maybe I think they changed the law that when he goes to finally renew his registration, he could be prevented from renewing. What is you? You could beat your you know, here's your ticket and here's your next charge and your next charge and your next charge. There really is no method to force payment. And you can rack up 10 years from those charges. No. Three year three years. I I don't Well, but then three years and then the town can foreclose.

Okay. Well Well, so we are looking at the parking ticket thing and that's a different scenario. The same we're looking at, you know, here's your parking ticket. Um you have this long to pay it otherwise it's going to double or otherwise it's going to double again. So it's, you know, it makes sense to pay it or you're just going to be over your head. Um, but it seems like if we wire this right, then couldn't we wire it in that if you don't pay it, it's going on your taxes? That's what I That's what I said. Yeah, I doubt it. I don't know. There's a difference between hard costs associated with water bills and paying somebody to cut the grass. Fine. I don't think there's some mechanism. So, with that, but we

I'm going be honest with you. I don't want to be in the grass cutting business. I just want the grass cut. But I'm saying you need to figure out a method that actually saves this payment because just saying are you in the grass. Maybe the the attorneys can come up with something. I don't know. I mean just food for dialogue. Make sure we because that's that to me is that would that would eliminate I think everybody's complaint here. Like we don't really want to be in the lawn cutting business. I don't think we want to be in the people shoveling their driveways and sidewalk business. And I don't think I don't want the sidewalk place. And I don't want the town coming on my property. Somebody makes a complaint though, but you're going to have the town has to have a way to res to resolve it. We need some teeth,

right? They need some teeth in an enforcement, which is what we've been saying for months. They don't pay after two times. The judge issue a bench. I mean, can you you know, you got unfortunately you criminalize, right? You know, we've always joked and said, "Oh, you don't." We've had stuff where we'd had fines and they're going, "Oh my god, we're not going to criminalize this." Or you could do up to two days in jail. You know, isn't it the same as any other building violation? If you got a guy that owns a building and he's not doing whatever, I mean, that's you can drag him into court the same way. having trouble at the court side of things, but that's

well you gota you got to do it the right way and make sure we address I guess I and and Brad I don't profess to have the answer and know it's just that to me it's lingering how do we do that is you know asking the question how do we do that something's going to be efficient which is not going to cost a lot of money to go 17 steps and we find this guy 10 times and nothing's happening now it's now taxpayers have to pay to bring them to court like a lot of the stuff in the grass snow law genross refer It's in our code book already. So, it's just a lot of it's just repeated. And I think that's where we're struggling is that

we're not just looking at language. We're looking at an the enforcement. We're trying to have enforcement and compliance. And so, we're trying to put language into this. And we all keep going back and forth like what exactly are what exactly is the town asking us to do? Because every time we mention the enforcement issues, what really has nothing to do with the law language, we come to a standstill. So the reality is that law is as aggressive as the town could possibly get with respect to enforcement of the existing property maintenance law. Wait, you just said draft. I thought it's a law. So it's not a draft. Sorry. Copy of the law.

But that either way that copy of the law like that mechanism for us to go cut it is as aggressive as we can possibly get. So, I think our letter to the town should say that we're asking for them to give us more input on what's going on and that, correct me if I'm wrong, board, that we're looking more for an in better enforcement program to the existing code and not what was all wrote in this press.

Let me ask you something. So, you passed this law. You said we haven't come up with any way to implement it yet. The other two laws that I have questioned before in the past, one being you can't sell Bill's tomatoes, Bill's front yard and the other one about the building inspector going to make sure I have clean pillowcases in my bed and breakfast. Are we implement is any way of doing those laws yet? Anybody? Yeah. Going to check that.

They can go check it anytime they want. I say there's no mechanism. The law is there. It can be enforced. They haven't gone and retained a grass cutting company to do it, but that was intentional. The other stuff as far as enforcement, they building department has the ability to go under checks. It's frustrating, I guess. I mean, it's just like we just pass laws for no reason. I mean, why do we spend money?

Doesn't make any sense. you have the attorneys write up these laws and not doing anything due diligence as a board sitting here and and try to give our guidance on what's presented in front of us. The problem is is we're all a little sidetracked as to what is actually being presented to us because we're not getting the feedback as to the actual track we're supposed to be going down and when we re bring this back then we have more questions. So So how many people a year is this? Eight. Eight lawns a year, Casey. So, and probably what 25 sidewalk. I didn't ask. I've seen a lot of sidewalk ones. I We're talking about with the amount of houses and residential in the subdivision, you could be in the hundreds.

You could be, but I I easily in a in a recent one when I drove through went, "Holy cow." When a substantial one literally had probably less than 50%. Yeah. I mean, just to shoot from the hill. So, listen. If we are going to get into sidewalk clearing business, then we need to make sidewalk districts and all those and we'll just do them all. But I don't think we want to do that. I don't think we want to be in that business. I don't want I certainly don't want the town to be in the grass cutting business. I'm not really looking to punish anybody. I just want compliance. I think we all want complicated, right?

You can complain about having the draft law that you don't this particular law. The reality of the situation is the law was implemented because there is a problem. We get complaints all the Well, I understand that. I don't think Brad does and we write laws for no reason. No, we didn't write the law for no reason, Brad. The law was written to address complaints the town gets on a regular. I just asked a simple question. You said we passed this law, but we haven't done the implementation, right? That you just sold us that. Okay. So, we have we we passed a law. If Phil isn't cutting his grass, we still don't have any method to do anything, but we have this law on the books. And I just asked

which was again impassible. So, I I understand that. I just I just asked a question about the other two laws that I questioned if we've implemented them yet. That's all I asked. We're spending a lot of time going circle and supervisor said, "Okay, we need to look at we need No, no, I I understand that, but I just asked a question. Let's move on." No, I think I So, I I hate to keep stiff on I really think we're getting somewhere here. I think everybody's productive.

Yes, we're actually being relatively productive. I mean, I think I think you all know that we're trying to come up with a method to push this because we want we want compliance. We're not trying to stick anybody to the wall. Um, but we just need a way to get there, you know, and that's really the big thing, right? So, uh, nobody has any Did you see this? No. Okay. So I think that's part of our frustration uh Pete

is that this was given to us all these pages of explanations. I don't know how we come up with them whether he talked to a town lawyer where where he got them from but he gives us all this stuff which is basically saying the laws perfect and bubble gum done by two other communities. So it's good. So, this is great. And I think that's what our part of our frustration is is you guys know we're going one way and we're getting this from another way. Tom didn't see this. You didn't see this. So, why the rainbows and and unicorns everybody cuts their grass and we snow. Okay. You know,

so that's our you can see our frustration. But I think spitball the reality is on the same page. Right. I mean, even if we have the ability to find something, like nobody cares about I don't want the ability to go skip that sticky note on Brad's door every 30 days saying, "Hey, you didn't cut your grass. You didn't cut your grass. You didn't cut your grass." The town collect. It's not a money. The intention at least for us is not to make obvious to actually be able to fix the problem to have the tool to make it completely there was no monetary value. We stuck the warning stick around your no said cut your grass at 70. We're going to find those and go into what I built

which is basically what we've been saying since September of last year more of a fine program system get to the goal line the judges we have no control over that so when they decide no I get I understand there's no nothing I I get that and I can be I can tell you that so I have property in other towns you guys know what I do and if we put out garbage too soon Like what? Oh, we get a fine. And it's just a ticket taped to the door. You got a ticket. Done. Pay it. It's a law that could be I think the law around I just pay it. I don't know. But I'm just telling you I'm going to assume it's

don't pay the next citiz. No, I mean I'm just saying. So, you know, if my guy takes it, if if my guy takes out the garbage a day late and it sits there for a week, I get a ticket. If you don't do what Pete what Pete told you, and you get arrested, you know my new look at I'll tell you who the worst one is, believe it or not, is the city of Buffalo. I believe that because they're looking for money. Is purely a money? No, that's right. They have somebody driving around writing tickets. They stick it in my fence. They don't even tape it to the door. They stick it in the fence.

I think we're hyper focusing though. What I'm thinking is that we're hyperfocusing on the grass and the snow element of this. I really think this is more of a nuisance code that we're planning to put together where there's hazard nuisances in in properties and where it gives the right for the town to say, "Hey, we we are coming because now there's a problem here. You have so and so days to fix it and if not now you're being fined." So it's finding. So I think it's more on the nuisance level of this the grass has never been t we're hyperfocused on that the way the language of this is but it's really to give the tools or the town to be able to go on the property and make a fine and make it and make them have to do something quicker than taking them through the courts or whatnot.

The law could be a lot of it's just been over complicated itself. I think there pages that go all over the place. It should be five pages. Here you go. This may convince us that a simple thing simple enforcement program with we could write it tonight. Why don't we do that? Yeah. I think you hit it on the head though. I mean the frustration in this group is it doesn't seem like the board is working with us on this. They passed it without any input. Right.

We've gave them a recommendation last meeting. We heard nothing about that recommendation. We get comments back from one board member. The other board members know nothing about. I mean, he's got a personal, you know, stake in this and he's, you know, trying to carry it forward. And so, this whole thing just doesn't seem to be a communal effort to get it done. Well, I asked the board again and hopefully we'll hear something next week. Tom, on Monday's advisory board review at the workshop, could you bring this topic or Tuesday, could you bring this up, please?

Okay. Next is number four, our article 78 motion from last meeting. One of the board members and myself got with an attorney and discussed the process of 78. It would come down to the town will not pay for the attorney because we're an advisor. We would have to pay for the attorney ourself. When we talked to the attorney, he gave us a lot of really great information and help some substance of his what he told us was like if you file the lawsuit when you get to the court the judge is going to say hey you and that town council go in the other room and figure this out. It's not going to ever be they did wrong, they get punished, or you did something wrong, you get punished. It's not like you killed somebody. You know, they got the prosecutor coming after you. After that, um, Supervisor Marston made an appointment with myself or I made it with him, I forget, meet and discuss. Jen came. Um, Councilman Datti was there. We had a long talk about things not coming to the planning board and all of our frustrations and there was a lot of discussion of what they felt the article 78 shouldn't be done. And when we ended our hourlong talk, Councilman Datti and Supervisor Marston gave us their word that we wouldn't be getting skipped anymore. that the stuff would come to the planning board. Now, when we

make our recommendations, they don't have to take them, but at least we get the opportunity to make them. We don't get skipped. So, we don't get skipped. So, I don't know, Jen, did you feel that was fair? Yeah. I mean, we had a long discussion about things coming to the board and starting here and finishing here and that we don't always feel heard when we're giving our feedback and vice versa. And so, we tried to have some open dialogue about on both ends how we could better build this bridge and where the hits and misses at best. It's better communication. So, do we feel

Let me ask you a question. When was your meeting? Um, I don't know, John. After Christmas, maybe two weeks ago or something. I don't know. Has there has there been a town board meeting since then? Yes. Yeah. Was No. Yeah, there was one. It was just a fire department then. Okay. No, there was one. No, they Oh, on the 5th. So, our letter of recommendation that we sent to the town, they didn't even respond to on which what on our local law we just been talking about. What I'm what I'm hearing that that what I'm hearing what Dave's saying is basically they had a discussion and they wanted to bring it back to us first before anything got publicly on record.

No, I get that. But what I'm saying is they both made a promise that we wouldn't be skipped anymore and they wouldn't be ignoring this board anymore. But yet we sent a letter of recommendation at our last meeting and they didn't even respond to it. I think we I think they met Thank you. I they they made a promise to us and yet they completely disregarded our letter. I I think we were we were focused on the article 78. We weren't focused on anything else. We were trying to come to an I I get that, but

I don't know what would you call it? A gentleman's agreement and and lady's agreement to work together to move forward to help our town. Chairman, what's the resolution on the Gun Creek PPD then? We have Are they going to resend their action? I I would I would say that they don't have to that due to the legal whatever of all this that we would have an executive dec discussion among us where we could ask those questions and after doing a little bit research Jen did some I did some

but within us as a team talk about this but it should be not in public forum is what my feeling was. So we can ask all those questions that we're wondering. And just to clarify that we had had your last meeting was on December 8th when you made that. We had the meeting on the 15th, the town board meeting where that recommendation made it back and it was received and filed. We didn't meet until the 19th. Okay. So it was after the meeting myself, Pete, Jen, and Dave was after I think it was after it was after the meeting. Okay. So you had a meeting on the 19th. When was your next town board meeting? The 5th.

Okay. But that was the reorganization. But again, again, we sent that letter and you guys Well, once again, the way I see it, Dave and Jen met with Councilman Dotti and Supervisor Marson. It had to come back to us first. So we discuss it and then we like Jen said, we can have executive board meeting together. Right. Right. But I'm talking about their I'm talking about their agreement that they wouldn't skip us and they would pay attention. Once again, you're not listening to what I'm saying. I I hear you. I I first before we went further with it. Yeah. They don't have to go forward that with with what we agreed to because it was just Jen and I. It wasn't the rest of you folks. I wanted to ask you guys demanded it back here. I want to know

now next meeting. Yeah. You got you got a good Let me ask you this question. What is the procedures in place right now that's already in our code for so for the planning board so things come from the town to the planning board that's already in our town code somewhere procedure a procedure that Jose relied upon when the planning board goes 30 days after the referral without a response it's deemed there is no response and we're free to do what we please that's how we got into this whole mess with this to begin with we had a meeting got cancelled we had it got pushed and Jose didn't show up right had to go so kind of

I don't think you put something like that on our agenda don't come here to disc I mean we we table anybody that comes and puts a big both sides are realizing there's a problem here and everybody's willing to work with it but we can't just keep throwing stone to it'd be it'd be one thing if this was the first time it ever happened but it's not well now we've the gentleman's and ladies agreement. If everybody's comfortable with that, then moving forward after this meeting, Councilman Datti and Supervisor Marson said that we wouldn't get skipped and they were working with other boards as well. So, we have

but they but town board members who who made this agreement, did the whole town board make this agreement? That's why that's why we're looking to have an executive. Is there going to be a resolution from the town that they're going to follow their own procedures? I I think their word is I'm I'm going to say word is good enough for me. No, but I'm just Well, this is two members, but in three years they may not be board members anymore. Then we're going to be back in the same boat. So that's why I'm asking, is there going to be a resolution from the town of some sort? I mean, there's an issue in the future. We always have the opportunity to do it again. Right. Right. No, but isn't there a way to the top?

This board is this board is gone. For whatever reason, whatever the reason is, what's the difference? It we're got to this point. We're trying to work things out so that we can work coexistently with them and they can do the same with us. Okay. And we just asked them no more skipping and they both gave us their word that they would not. Now, whether the other two want to skip three,

not to insult you guys, but I wish it was just a planning problem. I wish you guys would Jen can speak to this. I wish it was the planning board that was the only board that was complaining to the town board that they didn't think they were getting everything that they should have. But it's not

a problem. And Pete and I were in that meeting. We're the leaison. We're the ones that have the control over the reverse. could never make an argument agreement to anybody to say, but we can get it to we can get her comments back. Pete started with every meeting, every workshop that we have. Now, what I get the standing agenda item for the town board workshops is an update from advisory. So any meeting that I had so you meet Tuesday even if Jen hadn't asked what happened at this meeting is something that I would give the town board an update on and Dan can give one on cab and you know an effort to kind of keep things moving but you know unfortunately it's not

I think I would ask you Brad just to take a back seat for a little while and let it play out a little further if you're comfortable doing I understand your frustration I got my my only frustration like I said is just us getting skept. So I would like something solid if we get something solid back from them. I think what's in I think they're the town is bound to follow its laws. Right. So there isn't a Well, right now we got but the problem is that they don't we have to pay for it out of our pocket, right?

Yeah. So that's the thing that's what I'm complaining about. Well, when we did speak to the lawyer, he was considering proono, but again, he he gave a lot of good information, some criticism, but ultimately he said, "Look guys, if you sue, we're going to get to court and the judge is going to say, "You guys and them go in the other room and figure it out." Which I've been in trial before myself and they do it every time. There's no winner, no, there's no loser. The judge always finds the happy medium somewhere, right? And my opinion is So I think we did that without going through the process, right? And my opinion is I hope we did

you the two of you met with them, right? You're you feel you got a good agreement. You're comfortable with it. Well, there was some very I'm comfortable that they shook my hand and gave me their word, right? I mean, if I can't take your word, then you're you're worth nothing. And I know Brad, you've been here longer than I have, so you've lived work worked through it more than I have. But we do have the ability in the future. If they don't, then we can follow the article 78 again. Or we could follow some other there is other legal actions that we could follow too, not just an article 7. So article 78 has to kick in after a certain act after a certain type. But I mean it's

but there's other legal things that we could do as the attorney explained to us that if the town board isn't doing what they're doing or supposed to be doing that there's other ways to follow other legal actions. No, I that's my opinion, but you've been here longer than I have. Look, I'm fine with it. I I just thought I just thought we should have a resolution or something. Two of them. You probably can't get two of them. I tell Pete to stay home and get Dan or Jose to show up. see if those How about just How about just How about just a simple resolution from the town board? Yeah. I I think we that you guys are going to follow your own code and your own procedures. Yeah. But it's

Yeah. I think you're asking them to admit a wrong and it's really not a thing that you you they're asking us not to follow through on them. Right. Yeah. Exactly. They were asking us They're asking us not to follow through on on us complaining that they're wrong. No, I gave advice saying that I wasn't going to No, I can tell you exactly what we'll do. I understand the article 78. Well, look, it all depends on what state supreme court judge it lands on because the town of Grand Island, as you know as well as I do, the town of Grand Island does not have a very stellar relationship with the state supreme court.

Article 785 for one thing. some of the other remedies maybe get somewhere article 78 to the extent there is a deficiency which I don't think there is we could remedy it before the time we even set foot in a courtroom expended a dollar in defense cost okay so and and even if my also my my other concern is which I complained about from day one in here is the selective enforcement so we we have site plans we make the developers come in and abide by all our rules and we want this and we want that and then some boom ah 20 grand and that's all gone.

So what about the next guy that comes in? Does he have to abide by all that or can he just give you 20 grand, too? It's going to be in my motion. What motion? My motion that the next guy that comes in Oh, right. Why Why make him do all the trails when you had this big fiasco on this beed? Right. Just come up with a number and give the town the damn money and be done with it. So, chairman, there wouldn't be any remedy for the gun.

I would say no. By doing a little bit of research into it, it was a wood chipped trail that nobody was going to take care of. But they're supposed to they were supposed to take care. Yes, I agree. I agree. But well, it's the enforcement. It's not the minor or limited. It's the fact that they didn't

The problem is is with those stages going forward and where there was one plan that was on there and then things were approved after the fact that those things weren't on there. It looks legally as if we said no, but it just they weren't. There are certain things that just threw out that were seen. There's some there's some gray in there as to how what for the betterment of Grand Island as the planning board where we could really go back and actually get that procedure or that change or what was there done is going to be really uh really difficult um to do that. So there were some the discussion based around that this that scenarios like this need to be better clarified and as we agreed as this as the planning board we would do a better job of making sure these um reviews that we're supposed to be doing are done. And they made a commitment to us that they would make sure that the things that are supposed to get us like redlinined people coming to meetings and all these things these pro processes and procedures would be followed. and if they're not that we're to bring them to Dave and Dave said he's gonna have a more open dialogue within the town board and more communication and we both agreed that we would uh bring that within the planning board and the town board and not the outside of everyone else if something's happening and and figure it out on the spot. I I thought our meeting was A1. Like I didn't leave there going, "This is garbage."

It was It's disappointing because I feel like I'm we've lost something. And it's not the first time either, Jen. You know that. It's not the first time. It's the fact that we're not the time and the effort that we put in is not appreciated. I agree. But we all made a an agreement and that's the truth. and it's 2026 and we need to move forward and to we see what how it see how things work out. As I can tell by how heated you just got with me, I I I feel that the work that this board and other boards that we are citizens and we volunteer our time is not appreciated. No, it is. And I if you actions speak louder than words, Tom. So, Norm, Brad,

Brad, no, I was going to say this, Nor, but I'll tell you guys what I told Dave and Jen at that meeting because look, with respect to that issue, I think Pete and I disagreed on this, but I will fully admit that I would have sent it back here. We didn't. It was a timing issue, a timing issue that frankly was pushed by the developer. So, should we have probably I would have, in hindsight, I would have sent it back. That said, the number that we agreed on wasn't pulled out of there just based on what we were giving, numbers that were provided to us by those guys, reviewed by Bob and internally. And ultimately, that number was one that we thought was fair for what they were asking. And that would have been, you know, I get it. That was the question. Like you guys are the ones that when that was put together came up with, okay, this plan works and you should have a say. Well, if we're going to change it, then what should we change? Or what's an equal I want to say price to pay, but what if we're going to get rid of this? What are we going to do? And it wasn't just the money. The fact here is that that money is earmarked to make significant improvements to a town park that we already own. So, I do get the frustration. Wish we Yeah, I would have liked to send it back moving forward. We'll do that. But I also want to point you, we can go back and watch some of those meetings. One board member in particular would have just signed off on just crossing it off and moving on because that's what the residents and Pete and myself and some of the others said, "No, we can't do that because we've got they weren't just things that made their way onto a piece of paper for the sake of being on a piece of paper." They were put there by you guys for a reason, intending to improve our community and that community and that means something. And to say, well, the neighbors who bought the house theoretically knowing that it was there just don't like it. Being able to say, "Oh, yeah, heck of it."

So, what's going to happen? What's going to happen now with Golf Shores? Golf View or Golf View, sorry. Well, we got to see when he comes,

right? So, I mean, we we he's redone his plans. How many times trails walking? He's approved. Now I like even from the enforcability stand because there is something to be said for even for you guys. I think we've all learned something that the planning board like the next time you guys go to put pads in, we got to be sure we have a real way to enforce that because if we don't and it's just okay well they're going to put wood chip paths in and then the HOA is going to take it over and ignore it. Then what's the point of putting it there? Like it's silly. It's a waste of everybody's time and resources and something that you guys that we spend time trying to make sure it happens becomes not like it defeats the purpose. So

in the last meeting well explain to me I thought there was manfold path concrete path going to be curb cuts all this kind of stuff. I didn't realize it was just not saying it's right or wrong but I thought but okay right a trail at some point it's going to need repair. So the HOA decides to ignore it. We have a property maintenance law that we just put through and that would be part of it potentially. Yeah. What's the other development? Staley baseline. What's that called? Southoint. South Point. Didn't they already put their trails in? They haven't started building anything. They already they took the money to do all that, right? They under 100 understanding they have been maintaining their

and they're maintaining it as well. They had and it was maybe not all of it but they are it was a ploy on them just to be able to pull a billing and invest their right in the entire that locked in the wetlands delineation. So, okay. But either either way they have to go, right? And they've saved money without

I think one thing that'll help this in the future is the the park the master parks and senior services plan. They put together a whole map, GIS map and all that and they're putting all the trails together and they're putting where we'd like all the connections to be. So hopefully within a year at most we will have some kind of digital footprint or some kind of path to this stuff that when we ask this development why we're putting in there why it's so important that this doesn't get taken out because it's part of the whole plan that we have working.

Yeah. I'm still working to figure out the 2014 2014 site plan, but it was in 2016 when the concept plan for that phase got adopted. And by the time that concept plan was adopted, the gazebo, yeah, they took it out hoping nobody would notice it, maybe. And then they came to you after the fact and said that the residents don't want it. It was just a ploy for them. I've done that in houses where the architect mix misses something from page three to page five and that happens.

I'm not saying it was intentional. Well, I was hoping that the concept with that stuff there, the detail, but how a board after the first board that approved it when it came to that step missed that those features were in a prior approval and then not there in front of them, right? And when they granted it, it allowed it to be gone. You had to refer back to this point for it. It's just the truth. Well, actually, is everybody comfortable with Well, that's exactly This whole board needs to be comfortable with

I don't want to speak on that with a board. I just trying to be another help in the room with everybody moving forward in a good way in 2026. Norm, I'm very dubious. Yeah, I don't think we will give the proof. The proof is in the pudding. I I hear you. I hear you, D. You're not going to give him a chance. No, I want I want to hear your concern. I mean, to be able to speak here for many years.

I'm just concerned. I mean, you talk about not having methods of code enforcement. We talk about many things here. The parking of the trucks down at the corner of um the boulevard and long road. Mhm. We said it's a no. No. You see every day down there. Is there code enforcement on that? No. Yeah. Buy a car. Well, see that? Well, yeah. They still between the Yes. But is there code enforcement? No. I mean, we talk about other things for code enforcement. Brad brings them up. There's no methodology to it at all. There's no increase in our code enforcement department. Um, so you know, going

I I made I made comments about the giant shipping container that gets dumped now Anderson's, but in Adrian's front parking lot in the building department said I never saw it. So what do you drive around with your eyes closed? How do you not see it? It's on the Grand Island board. I mean, that's one of my concerns, Jen, that is that there's no, you know, we talk about this and talk about this about this, right? And it's been years that we've talked about this, right? and it hasn't changed, which I think is what reflects back on the advisory boards and then the advisory boards get frustrated then go to the town board and then it's a balance of well you're an advisory board not the town board we have the whole and so it it it turns into a gigantic cluster

no no common like procedure protocol or step back I'm not disagreeing you frustrated as you are I mean I was right to the point where I was saying you know what I'm quit Yeah, like this is too much. I I honestly I was going to say, you know, this is contentious like I'm not going to waste the town. Look at the things that But they gave me their word and every project he's ever done. So I think to us I think we have Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So let's move on. Communications received and filed a communication from we've read that stuff. We're sending that to Bridget Oul for the February meeting to get all their comments. Hopefully, she'll adopt that in her draft. Yeah. And read through all that, which included the CAB did the fire, too. Yes. Yes. Yes. What she told me she could not make it. She didn't like she's like no, you know, I want to set it up for February.

But she's still compiling more info, so should be done. I know, but I just question whether it might be helpful to have the town board and have the planning board and her like just a joint like to get everybody in a room discussion about this instead of kind of trying to take a peaceful approach. If you want to do that, that's fine. sign over 10 months. Meeting the meeting that you guys did for the Well, no, not for all these. The one we just went to for the open space. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was like an all these, right? That that was a great meeting. Yeah. And that worked really well. So, that might not be a bad idea.

I think it would be a good idea. You want to follow You want to follow up and let us know and let us know. I don't know if I prefer to do it during your meeting or if we do it day and just try and give us a couple of days or something. So, I'll send you the town board. Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Uh motion to adjourn or what did you want to do? Comment. Go ahead. Question. Are we a member of the New York State Planning Federation? Yes. Yes, we received no magazines with the people upstairs, but it's on the reorg. I saw it on the reorg. Did you notice that too? Yep. I looked for it because I haven't seen any notices of instructional.

Yeah, it was in the reorg as the reubscribing like we are a member of that. So, so what's up? Did you get the email about the twohour internet thing? No. Oh, you just didn't get that? No, no, because we don't have a town supported circulation. You as the chairman, your your email address when you go to planning comes to me to you. So Rhonda told me she forwarded that to you to send to your board members. Great. But we need they'll never know about it. You need to get that. I took the twoour. It's everything that we're doing and have done. I think Arlene used to send it. Yeah. send it.

Yeah, Arlene used to send it, right? Arlene used to send you, can you do that for me in the future or send us send it to every I do, but I didn't get that. I didn't get it at home over in Z. Yeah. And said, "Hey, cool. I'm sending Kristen." I think the confusion is we will need to send it to her. Send it to all of us.

I need to tell you how to figure it out. Uh the other one is Tom, can we explore honestly back to a length that had for there was a reason that everybody was there used to be a list that everybody got and then all of a sudden there was a nope, you guys can't have it. Only the chairman and the town board liaison can get any communications and decide what to do with them. Well, that's okay. As long as I don't want to forward, that's a solution. It wasn't that way in the past. So, I know I'll forward it. We'll just leave it as is. Send it to me, right? Like I did forward to her, you know, that's fine. If you don't want to Yep, that's fine. Okay.

All right. We'll take I'll take care of it. So, we're we're good. Do you want it? I personally I don't have any issue getting all of you guys. Like, I don't see why you can't res. We can set it up so that email goes to everybody. What the town board gourd when I started didn't want to happen is when that email goes out and this probably which trails you or somebody hits reply says something and president that sent the email and then we got to deal with that headache. Yeah, you're better off just leave it the way it is and I'll Well, you solve that when you got it. You solve that by sending it as a blind copy to everybody so they can't reply.

The way it would be set up is if somebody sent it like I It goes by public. Yeah, I'm part of Robert meeting. Did we not? You can't I cannot tell you how many people do reply. Motion to get a motion somewhere.