Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

clean them as well new year new book okay we're live and we're running all right we'll call to order the Planning Commission regular session meeting can we get a roll call uh Liberty AA here Dave FY here Matthew gy here Max cff absent uh Gary Lillard here all right thank you are there any additions or changes to the agenda there are not right uh so let's consider approving the minutes from the October 8th 2024 meeting I saw just a couple things did you um let's see here on page two it says at the top CL approval division includes 13 Lots the figure only shows 12 why would that I wondered if 13 was a type of might be yeah cuz it's 12 here yeah it could be because he's there's another version that has 13 on it that okay and then there was looked like there might have been a sence missing variance of the road width yeah okay6 dedicated Road would allow for a 22t wide payow twoot grael shoulders and then however should is NOT capitalized this will be handled by parking lot and doesn't quite read okay this will be oh maybe it just capitalized it okay maybe that's all it is will be handled by a parking lot and

parallel parking on the far East End of the Road as shown on that I don't know maybe I'm split but no the however does I did have a period there I'm glad you're reading them I go I read them and read them and I'm eyes yeah we edited in favor I will I amazing that I know I'm surprised to see that all right is there anyone here to speak on anything that's not in the agenda today's not so we will move to new business which is election of chair and yes continue I'm actually not sure Rock seat Ro seat oh was it rock yeah I went back through the minutes yeah I wasn't sure either I do it you want to beair

okay volunteer volunteer okay you need a motion and yeah yeah see Matthew motion move what's the motion Liberty can continue on his chair continue on his chair and SP chair all in favor okay great we can move on to our new business to the public hearing um this new business what's that new business oh wait public hearing oh it's it's not a No it's it's just new yeah because we're not actually going to be doing uh your typical public hearing today don't r [Music] all right so we are going to consider an interpretation of the city code and get a staff report yeah so so this application came in uh initially as a conditional use permit and so this is the code section in the downtown central business Zone it talks under a conditional use permit we allow up to 25% of a ground floor of commercial uses in all of our commercial zones to be occupied with residential use and then 75% commercial use as long as there's a commercial storefront then through the conditional use permit you can increase

that 25% to any number there's no there's no limit set by code but through the conditional use permit coming to you is you know they could occupy uh 50% or in this case you know the request is 100% of a particular storefront and so to give you an example the linare building that's about a block down four Street or so they came before the Planning Commission a number of years ago um as they converted that and created a dwelling on part of the building and Lim care I think is still in there um but there are like 40 something 47% or 40 something per of that building and it's just because of the way the space worked out is how that percentage fell but um so in this case it's just the way the building is laid out uh it's an early 1900s building and then also in the early 1900s it was an addition put on and then another addition put on and so essentially you have three sort of buildings I think one of them is probably truly visually a separate building the other one is visually is clearly an addition it has the same architecture and you know same everything it's just painted a different color on his face um but but uh but it's integrally a part of the whole it's one piece of property and these three spaces have now been merged on the Upper Floor as as one use it's all apartments and then on the ground floor you have the two commercial uses facing uh Washington and then the rest of the building faces um Depot and so the question that is coming before you is under this code it talks about uh um let's see where am I at am I in the right spot uh this is my end the permitted so this

is the conditional use um so you can go greater than 25% um provided that you the commercial storefront is maintained on the street front and so this is that's part of the interpretation that I'm kind of throwing at you is Street Front is what is the street front and uh uh because that that is what is going to be the deciding factor in this scenario of whether or not the proposed request to convert 100% of the ground floor commercial space would be allowed and so this building if you look at it as a as a whole this building predominantly faces Depot Street that is its Street front and that is traditionally if you go and you look out there those are all storefronts and it's your traditional storefront and uh let's just kind of look at that really quick so here's the two spaces we're dealing with this is kind of the addition that matches the main building the summer building it has the same architectural features at the top um so that's kind of like at least how I delineate it as this is the same building this was an addition it's clearly different um but uh it's kind of identified in our historic uh record as being an addition that uh that also occurred in the early 1900s but as we look at this space this is what our traditional commercial storefront looks like or you know are these typical Street fronts and whereas you know you get over here to you know to this block on Washington this is functionally the side of a building you have the side of the main Sommer building here this technically is a side of the same building it was just used as a storefront historically and this is kind of the same thing it could be a side of the building but it's also used as a storefront and within this block you have the old fire station and

the fire station this was always a service entrance side until side a went in there up until side a this was a side entrance not a storefront and so what the applicant is seeking and what I am seeking anyway is your interpretation of can we call this functionally an incidental side entrance while it happened to be accessed to commercial space to not call it a storefront but rather call it a side street entrance for the purposes of this interpretation for the applicant's request he had a question Gary if I remember correctly I think I saw something in the narrative here under city code isn't Washington considered a side street formally well it it is for some businesses so like if you go down to the sack Annex that is the front of several of those and they have your traditional storefront but but if you look at this block and it might be for the old for the Elks building just the next block over but even if you go to the next one and you look at where the cam credit building is that's the side of their building but you get down to the next one where you're at the marketplace um that's all front storefront for them but uh but I think functionally as we look at this block and we look at the context of this building is part of the interpretation for the applicant is is Washington a side or is that your street front for this uh because if if the commission interprets it as this is a Street Front then as part of converting these two spaces into residential units the applicant will have to maintain a commercial storefront um with whatever percentage you would grant them through a conditional use permit and that would not be functionally viable for this space is to

have residential in in a portion and and Commercial storefront the space just doesn't lend itself well to that and um the alternative the applicant would have would be to apply for variance to not have the commercial storefront but our variance criteria is very strict and you'd have to essentially demonstrate a hardship that says I can't meet the code you know in any other way and you know and the code promotes commercial storefront it's it's been historically commercially I don't think I don't think the applicant can qualify for variance and so that's why we're here on the interpretation and if you support the interpretation that's requested where this is aside then we would essentially give the applicant back their conditional use permit they applied for which I put in your packet because they wouldn't need a conditional use permit it would be they they meet all of the percentage thresholds for converting this space to residential one of the other things as uh before I kind of finish at least my Spiel as you look at this space and you interpret it from a a storefront standpoint these while they have historically been commercial these are not handicapped accessible and so from a commercial standpoint is they just are not great commercial spaces and the applicant or this property owner has struggled with keeping these spaces occupied with with good tenants uh because the space doesn't lend itself well to a commercial occupancy um whereas converting it to a residential occupancy this would be a pretty easy thing and and uh it's not a heavily you know walkable street from a a commercial retail standpoint it's you know but it would be great for a little side entrance to some apartments um but anyway so I'm just going to kind of throw that out there you guys can kind of chat about it we can go back and forth on some maps if you want um but uh

you know we could pan around this one but uh I'll just kind of let you guys kind of chat about it and we'll just kind of see where the conversation goes the um the work that was done to make the second floor into continuous presidential space was that permitted and was that done above board and with the city's yeah ining because because it does seem to me the interpretation of it being one building is based on the fact that the second floor is one floor yeah if our permitted that then that's one thing if if that was not done above board then that's another yeah so I I'll answer part of the question with what I know we can always defer it to Lance because he knows this building inside and out but but uh from a a city standpoint uh shortly after Michael McQueen acquired this building we went through a a historic landmarks uh application process and we actually got a grant for for Michael through that I I can't remember the details of of whether it's urban renewal related but we did get a a grant from the state historic preservation office to help with some remodel elements of electrical and plumbing and different things for the viability and use of that Upper Floor residential space um because prior to Michael having it I think there was a hodg Podge with some residence some commercial officy stuff and he's done a lot of stuff to this building and uh but yeah so I would say it's it's all above board and we even funded it with historic preserv ation money to to help make the building more viable and so from an upper floor standpoint it's it's one building from a lower floor standpoint every single space is different where is the access for theor it comes off of uh I think it's off of the alley is there also one off a Depot for for upstairs yeah one of three Depot

okay I walked by and saw that there was a little FL for the FL SU yeah and then access for these two lower floor spaces is just the front uh so what you see then there's a shared hallway with locking doors from each unit that goes out to the parking lot the the building is in L shape and the blank behind this is fire parking for the ass and would that parking be for the residences too uh one spot anyway how many would we have would would it require none yeah so the downtown's exempt from parking so okay so yeah so for the residential space if if there was not enough space in the parking lot uh you know the tenants would do just like any other tenant downtown is they could buy a parking permit and park in uh some of the longer term parking areas uh that are available a for any reserve parking at the curb no definitely not on the on the street for at the curb but uh but yeah but if if Michael does provide uh a couple spaces and his parking lot off the alley that's fantastic but it's certainly not required would our decision have implications for whether or not the stuff that faces walk that's Depot right uhhuh whether that stays commercial yeah it would have to stay commercial under this interpretation unless they came with a conditional use permit because the way the square footage works out is if both of these spaces were 100% converted using the total footprint of the entire building is we're really close to the 20 I think it's like 22% but it's really close to the 25% threshold is just under

for this conversion and it wouldn't lend itself to convert any other ground floor commercial space to a residential occupancy without going through a conditional use permit process with you but subject of maintaining a commercial storefront and so uh what's the what's the purpose for theod well the purpose is is because the commercial zone is intended for commercial uses and you want the ground floor to be your commercial retail space that where you have a walkable downtown and you have folks you know the viability of your downtown commercial space is you have interaction with the businesses at the storefront uh but we added this into our code because there was a desire years ago not so much in the downtown but in our commercial Zone where you have residences and you have homes built that uh where folks would convert and they would want the front to be an office and they want to live in the place they work and this is my home office essentially and but we've just added it uh throughout the entire commercial Zone because like when we did the NK West building uh shoo in the early 2000s I can't remember Gary might remember when we did that but um but when that was built the ground floor initially I don't know if it's still that way but it was initially planned with a manager's apartment um so you'd come in off of uh Adams in into their Corridor and then there'd be a manager's apartment but then you'd go up the stairs to all of the Upper Floor apartments and that's kind of what the intent of that space would be for the ground floors is that kind of that the 25% yeah so that's kind of the intent of the of that 20 and sometimes that 25% might be a little Lobby space with your mail stuff in there maybe there's a laundry room you know or something or a little Commons area that's Affiliated so that's kind of what the 25% was originally intended for

as we as we were kind of brainstorming and created it but um but historically folks have used it because that's where you create apartments and it just creates more living space and more viability downtown cuz it's more activity more people living downtown is more activity and so uh um so we we've kind of embraced it over the years um and it's also made buildings much more functional you know keeping them occupied and yeah so is there anything in terms of precedent that we need to think about I I wouldn't have known until I got this packet that that was all one tax lot are there very many other spaces where where what reads like a couple of buildings are on one tax lot in the downtown or is this more of a unique situation this one is this is this is the only one in this context that that I can think of but if we let's just shoot down here to uh all the way to Four Street and uh I'm going to give you this is also in the Central Business zone so this is what used to be Dr Hall's Chiropractic is that what do was Dr Hall anyway this is now short-term rentals but these the way these are constructed is they could be in independent apartments and uh ground floor I mean they happen to just do this as as short-term rentals but this is a central business on commercial building this is essentially the side of their building and um they didn't have to go through this process and interpretation because they're doing it as a lodging and a commercial use so it's it's not really the same but functionally you know short-term rentals and and apartments are kind of they have similar characteristics and and impact so um so this is probably the closest I could give you as an example in the commercial Zone even though it's not the same does it does it make a difference

whether it's one tax lot or not or is that just sort of like kind of I I think I think it does from a code standpoint because if it was a separate tax lot then it's like where is the what is the front of this tax lot what is the front of this building and you know and so so that would be to me that would be a huge differentiation between uh of one scenario versus another sense and is there is there a difference between apartments and short-term rentals in there is because we don't consider short-term rentals residential okay and so shortterm rentals are a commercial lodging use and so we it's partly why we have limitations in uh u in our residential zones for how we deal with the permitting of those but in the in all of our commercial zones people don't have to go through our short-term Rental process like a residential person would um it's just it used to be yeah it's a permitted use just like yeah just like building a hotel or whatever and yeah so that's a use that we actually would like to have in our commercial zones and and so folks that do that have a much easier process for that conversion and that I guess would be something maybe as you think about this that there's nothing to say that these two spaces couldn't eventually become short-term rentals and have that category or maybe someday down the road you know somebody decides they want to convert it back to a commercial use it could flip-flop I mean so there's a lot of things but um anyway functionally anyway the request at least that's before you is would this be a legit side of the building that uh would allow

this conversion if we were to uh come down and say yeah our interpretation is that uh they can go ahead and make it residential would there be anything else some additional hearings uh another part of the process where people might come in and say well I'm not too sure we want that you know a public hearing basically is what I'm talking about there is not so the the interpretation that you would make would be would be probably the same inter interpretation that I would be making on other elements of the code is this is how I read it and this is what I believe it means and then and for you it's like what is what is Street front mean that is essentially the interpretation is what is the street front of this building does it have two Street fronts does it have one Street Front what is the interpretation of a street front that was something I was thinking about so on a corner lot there be well I mean I think functionally you could probably say yes but the way our code is structured with building setbacks and all of those things you have one street front and you have a street side so that's the way our code is structured and that is the way things are labeled and defined in our code but the sack anx definitely seems to me like it has two Street functionally yes yeah but but technically from a definition standpoint if I was to look at it and label it from a code standpoint is um fur fur would fur would be your front and Washington would be your street side even though from a business standpoint is businesses front side we even have like if you go to like Pat's alley even have businesses front rear you know and so um you know so I you know it getss it gets kind of Muddy when you start you know trying to break

it down but I think from a Cod standpoint it could be really easily interpreted as your street front is Depot and side is Washington so Washington is a side considered a side street under code from beginning to end basically not for everybody you know so like if you go cuz if you go down here you know one block and you come down here to where the marketpl well even like now the the old Elks that's their front Washington is their front but you come down here to where like the quilt shop and and all of them were the these are this is a separate building this is their front Washington is their front they don't they don't have a side I understand Frontage but what does the code say about the street itself iside Street or oh it doesn't Define that yeah yeah so our code doesn't Define an the actual label of a street whether a street is a front it it bases it on the context of the use on the property got yeah has has anybody from Downtown Development weighed in on this at all no because it's not there's not really a process or an application to do that and so for us it's like it's really an interpretation and I think if if you were to make an interpretation that says that Washington is is a front of this is a is a front of this building then that would kind of force the project to go through a conditional use permit which is that public hearing process that suddenly notice goes out to everybody um another me yeah because because because because the way the applicant has designed this space is that if Depot is the front and Washington is the side the space the way they've designed it is they meet all of the area thresholds for for their project to be a permitted use outright where you just get a building

permit and you do it and so that's why we're here it's like which way do you want to go but I don't know if the applicant will be coming back if you call Washington the front because I don't think a variance is going to be required unless they make a storefront and I just don't think the space lends itself well to that but that would be up to the applicant to try to design find something if they wanted to do that but I don't think they would be coming back with a variance so they need all the thresholds if we say that it's if we say that it's not a Street Front issue that's aside there's still 75% of the ground floor is commercial use after the renovation yeah yeah and then and and actually 100 well with the exception of the entry going to the Upper Floor 100% of their Street Front is commercial commercial storefront because yeah under under that under the interpretation that you're being requested to support we had any input from the nearby businesses I don't know Lance have you chatted with anybody at all or not there's really not a process to reach out to them for this you know so it's not cuz it's not a public hearing since it's just an interpretation um you know other than just voluntarily going and knocking on the door say hey what do you think which the only close neighbor is really side a there because everyone else is pretty far away from where those those little right we have side and then met SPS around corner yeah there oh is that the door right there

this right here that yeah that's oh yeah so that their main entrance is on Depot this is just kind of an employee side entrance I'm trying to be you know another factor in this as well is to make these look more stor frsh you know the big glass windows that's a nonstarter going through commission oh yeah you know particularly the unit on the right 125 is has always been it's been it's been more tenant through there know short term than they there s around you know it's an effort to make the best use space and that that's really because it it looks like side yeah yeah abely does you know again there's nothing we can do with saw that would pain how much is the character of those going to change after the residential conversion what exterior on yeah exterior not at all I mean I might there's a sign there you can't really see take but the windows would all kind of no everything else has to stay it's it's a yeah the one the street there is the L yeah so yeah the facade will stay the same because it'll have to go to landmarks the one thing that I could see the landmarks commission supporting uh which I think would make sense and I don't know what the entrance to the um to the helm building on the right looks like but I can see the blue portion of the helm I could see Lance coming in with a with a request from the property owner say I want to swap this door out with a solid door because it's a residence I don't want it to be a a solid you know full glass window and so I I could see that request coming and I can see the landmarks commission

supporting that like a like a wood door or something that is more residential looking and probably safer more secure than than a commercial yeah on the right there there's oh about 5x5 Square Alco you step into and immediately on the right it's a full size Glass St old fashioned glass door swings space yeah and that's fair game cuz it's inside so you can change that one it's the other one whatever we replace it with yeah yeah that's the only well there was for a while it was the was it the state representative yeah W in BL par for a long time there was a bicycle shop and now there's a and there was like some little medical something in there at one point wasn't there there a marijuana Testing Lab there we have we got Renee have a clinic there oh yeah like the village something like that like say we probably had 10 people Years anyway so that's kind of part of the thought process is these are just not great spots for commercial yeah people in there right now are looking for another better different place they want yeah I think the tax lot combined with the fact that with our with the city's blessing and the code's blessing the upper floors we're combin leans toward leans me towards interpreting it as one building I guess I want to be in the spirit of being thoughtful but I'm trying to think about what are the

downsides of that awesome future residence and the only one I can sort of see is that we want we have a community interest in having um a vibr downtown with and that could be interpreted to be having more retail space I would say I know next nothing about urban planning but I did read some Jane Jacobs at some point in my life and if I remember what she said was that the most vibrant cities in downtowns have a little bit of everything that you want a little bit of retail a little bit of commercial and a little bit of residential so that people use it at all different times and have all different reasons to go there and given that we have a housing shortage and not so much a retail shortage I think I feel okay saying we take the risk that someday people want that to have been commercial in return for people having a home you know in the next six months or a year yeah I mean it does look like it looks like a side entrance to true and we're not actually precluding it being used as a space maintenance the market conditions that great now it's Liv in commercial by by market conditions and if those ever shifted enough the down the downtown retail was desirable whoever owned it would have an incentive to switch back we keep the character of it not changing so it couldn't be a commercial I mean of course the interior is going to change but like you know the character of it still looking like a cool downtown building I and then the upper FL is already being combined how large would those be is uh the one on the right be just about 1,000 square ft and the blue one on the left's about 700 my first house

wall no I'm at the 700 and there's we we kind of covered the traffic and parking there's no the fire department doesn't have any considerations No in fact they they would probably being at their ground floor yeah I think that they would be much more supportive of it being an apartment than uh than probably commercial from fire coat related reasons so especially with the apartments up above um the one thing and then Lance I think already has it all worked out in the floor plan the only thing that would maybe be a modification or an upgrade is is how do you deal with the bedrooms in the grass requirements for a bedroom but uh I think the building has it lends itself to that on the backside for I think how Lance has it designed that's typically where folks run into challenges in conversions of commercial is how do I deal with egress from residential space right yeah so at this point yeah we have ideas and we'd be working with Associated design but you know this is the first step in give them 1500 bucks to make a plan everybody else how you doing well generally speaking I've always had a preference for public hearings giving people an opportunity to speak about change this is a very unusual situation I don't know I I mean I'm in I believe we did

basically yeah so if your interpretation is that this is a Street Front then the code would be strictly applied as if that is a front and then if they wanted to convert uh um any portion of that space they would have to maintain a commercial storefront on that and or ask for a variance or ask for a variance which the variance criteria I don't think would they would be able to qualify the hardship you have to justify on a variance essentially says I can't use this for the use that the Zone allows for it without a variance and it's already a conforming scenario and so so I don't I don't think you'd be able to satisfy the variance criteria um in order to eliminate a storefront and so uh so somehow they would have to figure out how does the space work out how do I remodel this space and still maintain a storefront which I don't know if that's going to be a thing for these buildings I think you answered this already but if we were to say it's a side street fine for residential so would that have any implications for anybody else along the street such as side a for example it could for side a in depending on how that space works because looking at I don't I don't think it's going to set a precedence throughout the downtown in any way because it's it's on a site or you know it's in it stands on its own merits the thing with if side a was to suddenly use Elm Street as their front I think this entry could easily be interpreted as a side because historically this was the service entrance for fire guys to access the bay and it's it's really not a storefront

they're just using a a service entrance as their business entry and so um so that's just kind of a unique space all by itself but but I I think in the context of setting a precedence elsewhere I don't think think this would set a pressing because I don't think there's another example in our downtown that's like this that I can think of other than maybe cam credit but they don't really have anything over there yeah personally I think my only concern would be if it had implications negative implications for the nearby business yeah I think if you had other business storefronts on each side of this that were your traditional storefront and you know the context of even how it appears functionally it would be kind of weird would not be uh visually you know what we would uh probably desire in our downtown to me being on one tax lot and already continuous on the top just really L itself to just saying okay the bot's kind of all one two you know architecturally all those three hang together I mean they're different colors it sort of intense to me yeah one time back in the 70s is actually everything you see plus a little more to the left was all one big Law Office the home family have that so it actually was both of those and then extended I think even including the large window you see there on on the beige part just now that's s back the N slot but that was all you know one unit across there so a couple you know dividing door got put in there there two other divid doors put in back hallway so

after they moved out then seemed I guess it was PR at that point split it up even more through a lot of those two walls a lot of variations you kind of cool to have some residence like that downtown I could go across the street from my mail yeah I go next door for my beard yeah I I think they could be pretty desirable I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of downtowns that have really unique characteristics with Apartments kind of intermixed in them that this kind of helps with you know the character of the downtown and and the viability of yeah street level there's a lot of Second Story yeah and I think from an economic development standpoint having more folks living downtown I mean that's a that's a Target or a goal you know because that is hopefully we'll get more businesses that that cater to uh you know the residential uh life downtown so that folks have places to go on the evenings and weekends and whatever and and get more activity downtown but anyway uh anything else everyone generally positive on this yeah so I've given you a couple of motions I'm going to let me switch stuff around on my screen here so suggested motion to right yeah suggested motion to are you ready for such a motion I'm I'm ready if everyone else is but I don't want to uh you know stop anyone from discuss to discuss is is not the motion to be that this

building is to or to be considered one building for the purposes of of that 25% rule well essentially we're defining what is the street front of this building oh okay so you don't have to really worry about the 25% rule because that's going to be Lance's homework when he actually goes through the building permit process assume that this is all in already because it's not in this right so like the motion one is to deny the request and we consider Washington a street front and that would essentially be the Assumption if if Washington is a Street Front these are two separate commercial spaces and that is their front so that's kind of motion number one would be to to deny or not support the interpretation of that conversion motion two would be the one which is the direction this conversation is going is where Elm is the front and Washington is not a street front it as a side and because for that building for that building and so motion two is the motion that and you could change the wording if you want to say it differently so it's more comfortable but motion two is the motion that would support the interpretation this conversation is has been leaning and we can continue to discuss the motion once it's been made corre uhuh yeah so yeah you should have your first second then more discussion all right I move that the request be approved in that washingon Avenue not be considered the street second any further discussion all in favor I all right well good well you can let M Michael know that uh the conversion is okay and so at this point you can just put your building permit

packet together you know with uh making sure we use the whole building ground floor right yeah and sticking within the 25% rule then you should be good but if you exceed the 25% then we'll be back here with a conditional use permit see that yeah but but at least if you were back here on a conditional use permit we'd at least be looking at Depot Street as your street front so we wouldn't at least be worried about uh the Washington Frontage and and how that storefront interpretation is so we're just we'd just be talking about square footage so so anyway yeah so you're good to go okay get go to Michael next ear next week and we'll figure out what we want to do it's a lot of there building code deal now yeah thanks for coming well thanks for building for sure all right we don't have any public hearings you don't have any old business do we have any city planner comments well the only thing I want to bring up is last night the city council had a work session because our city manager is looking to retire later this year and uh so last night the work session was interviewing uh uh firms that go out and essentially Head Hunter firms that go out and find a city manager and uh and so they selected one and one of the questions that came up as they're trying to kind of figure out the next step is um the first step in the process the Consultants will do is to essentially create a profile for Legrand what is Legrand looking for in a city manager and those kind of what do what do we want our next city manager qualities to be and kind of create a profile so that they can go out and try to find somebody

that fits that description and uh and so anyway one of the questions that came up was was also for a later part of the process there's kind of like interviews like there'll be a a group of all the counselors will be like an interview team I don't know why or how the directors would kind of fit in for the city directors but it was but there may be an interview team that would be like the school district superintendent and some of the large you know an OD do um C OD do person and one of the questions was for that kind of Agency Group that maybe would be another interview separate interview team so the city manager would have essentially two interviews you know between different bodies of people that would then have a recommendation for the city council to ultimately make the decision but part of that question and I don't know if it would matter would be whether or not our chair of the Planning Commission would want to be on there because that came up just because the Planning Commission from a city council standpoint is the Planning Commission is has the highest value of all of our commissions from level of importance and authority and so but it's it's be it's because of it's because of the power in the land use code and and the regulatory Authority that you guys kind of wield with your decisions and so so that is so part of that is why but um I don't I suspect that the outcome is not going to be to have our planning commiss commission chair actually sit on a interview panel but one of the things I wanted to extend out more for me as a request to you uh because I don't think it's going to come from anybody else is um over the next couple weeks um we're going to as staff we're going to be generating our own list of what are qualities and

attributes that we would like to see in our future city manager and uh um and kind of generate a list and then staff all the directors are going to have a work session with the city council in early March to essentially have a conversation saying from a director's standpoint is these are the things that we would value and appreciate the council including in in this search so that our interests are considered and you know some of those have to do with you know your speaking ability and your knowledge about this or your knowledge about that and so those are kind of all attributes or characteristics and qualities that we're going to be generating a list and so I guess one of the thoughts that I have you know for myself and a request to you is that if there's things that as a planning commissioner or even just as a citizen in our community that you would love to see this quality in our city man in our future city manager you know shoot me an email and say hey I'd like I would I think our future city city manager needs to have strengths in these three things or four things or 10 things things but anyway just shoot me an email and then I'll make sure it kind of gets on the list for discussion to say hey these are these are qualities that that either we as directors also have because we they you you might say the same things we say uh or we'll just add it to the list so that at least when we have our work session with the city council that we're throwing ideas out there so that you know whatever sticks because everybody agrees will will'll make it into the profile that the consultant assembles for for their search and uh and I'm kind of excited with the process the consultant that they picked has successfully placed city managers in lots of different communities in in Oregon uh the person that'll be working directly with us is

originally from Pendleton and was a city manager in can be for 26 or four 24 246 years and is very well liked and and they just uh placed a city manager and it's actually and it's one of the counties in in Oregon our the county form of government just like ours where you have three County Commissioners entally run everything they that particular county is switching their model to have a manager formed government where it'll be a lot like the city where you have the city council appoints a city manager or hires a city manager to essentially manage all the Departments and that's just not you don't see that in counties and uh so anyway so that's kind of new but they successfully had what was it 20 some applicants that were willing to live in a remote County and take a job where he's they're essentially risking everything to change the whole structure you know where yeah you know so and they had lots of applicants and successfully play found somebody and played somebody and so they're optimistic for L Grand because of the candidate pool is that a lot of those same people are probably going to be interested in LR because of our rural nature and and the you know the environment that we have and the you know that what people move here for and we have yeah we have a very successful city government that uh that functions very well and you know and so you know so it's it's not a it's not a high-risk something where somebody's going to come into a broken system and have to fix it and so uh um but anyway uh so so I think we're we're pretty excited as staff and I think the council's really excited and then the consultant is also really excited uh because you know many of them are semilocal anyway and so they're excited

to to represent us so but anyway I just want to kind of close with that but if you if you guys want to shoot me an email and say hey here are some of the qualities that we would like to see in our future city manager because we think that these are important attributes then send that to me and so I'll kind of add it to the list so city planners that that is all for now you're probably going to see oh maybe not no you you might see uh um true construction come back with the final plat they've actually their project is is just flying and they took their four or five phases that uh was originally part of their proposal and they're doing it in two so they came in and did phases one through four all in Phase One and uh and now they're taking whatever phases five and six or whatever they had and they're doing that as phase two was that because they they sold those places and or they have more money than they anticipated it is much more popular I don't think it's a money related thing I think it's just they started building a house kind of like as a spec you know as kind of the risk and and uh I think they had financially they were set up to be able to get two or three going and their first house I think I don't know if they call today but they're like I think they I think today was the day they asked for final inspection and occupancy of the first house but it's already sold yeah I saw those listings that's cool and it yeah it sold you know I'm not even sure how much they advertised it before it was sold and it was really fast it was like as soon as it was made available it was it was bought and so then they're they're getting ready to list their second one if it's not already listed

and and they're anticipating that that's what so they're they're looking at it if with the interest being this great they're thinking that they're just going to do it all and they're and they're thinking they're going to have the whole subdivision done by Fall wow that's awesome because it's going so fast and going so well for them that they're just they're just figuring out the fin fincial side of it and they're just going to plow through and just do it all right now rather than phase it out over five or six years which was the original proposal yeah Co I think that was from the October meeting you saw the subdivision consider that one building two three bedroom and one of the two bedroom units up on the yeah and and we as kind of staff and city council took a little bit of risk in the final plat piece because the road's not done yet you know so part of that is you can't do it right now you know so right so they they have it's pretty much roughed in and it's probably a decent it was a decent Gravel Road until it all snowed but you know but but it's not going to be paved until uh until April and whenever their number comes up on on the with the asphalt company but uh but that's usually one of those things when you go for final plats we want to see all that stuff done and then you get your final plat and start selling lots but uh given how fast it's going uh we took the commitment from uh the different you know contractors that were building the road and and the timing of when they promised to get things done as as bonding to guarantee the completion and it's it's yeah it's it's a successful project I'm surprised uh you know that they're 3,000 square foot Lots with what are they 12200 foot just under 1,200 Fe you know it's just and they're tight and but there's a demand for it it's a single floor like yeah I was I it's literally pack them in like sardines and have like almost no space

and but they're there's a demand for that you know and it's but we don't have that in our community and so it's it's always been one of those skeptical things and that we're kind of thinking yeah who's going to want that you know just like there's a demand for it you know so yeah you heard anything about um plans for the former Supermarket I'm trying remember what it was called Fresh oh Market Market I I haven't I know right now they're still working through some contract related stuff because they they got urban renewal money and they had all these strings attached to it they had to hit these targets and and I I know right now there's there's a lot of challenges right now from a legal standpoint is how do we deal with the contract and so I I don't know what's coming I haven't heard anything about what's coming next but I know right now that's something that the city manager and city council are trying to figure out with with our legal council is how do we deal with that contract and what what do we do with the obligations and promises that were attached to that but um but hopefully that's uh once they get through that I think that'll open the door for something else to come in because I think there that's probably a barrier that property owner has to get through before he could put a totally different use in there because it was it was agreed upon that it would be a Marketplace and it would employ so many people at a certain wage and for a certain amount of time and so yeah so there was a bunch of strings but it's um and it's just been challenging for for the business that was in there but and I don't know if another grocery would move into that or if they would change the use completely and put some other retail or some other entirely different use in there but I think that that change would unless it was a grocery but I think that change would require a different either the contract

needs to just go away uh they need to figure out how to settle that or they would have to do something completely different but but anyway that's I I don't know if there's a whole lot of movement on on a new occupant going in there because I think they're dealing with some legal discussions on on that contract I'm glad to hear that I've heard previously that there was they were going to default on those things that they had promised and for know was just going to be out so glad to hear there's some consideration of whether Ur well and I don't think anybody wants that you know and so I think that well I think the rumor Mills out there I don't think anybody wants that as the outcome and so I think everybody's trying to figure out how to we how do we push our biases aside and how do we work together to find a solution and so uh hope hopefully we get there but I I know that right now that's in the works I just I'm just not in the loop on seems like a terrible spot to have a giant vacancy you it also seems a top spot to like it's just how many retail tenants can afford something yeah any other projects out there that you're interested in can't think of like things are rolling with most other things that we see yeah I think the hotel's opening soon so that's that's coming up like you know yeah I think within within a month what I understand anyway I mean they're they're I think they're booking next month only because my daughter I want to stay at the new hotel I'm like well let's see Yeah March so yeah March yeah because I think things are getting final inspections and getting signed off and so I think they're they're like really

close to having an occupancy permit so yeah anything new about the Jefferson Avenue thoughts or projects there winter um it's on the it's on the council's I guess list of projects for consideration there'll probably be a future work session on it um what was that again that's the Jefferson Avenue it's a project Timothy's been working on with trying to revitalize Jefferson Avenue um yeah that street needs revitalizing yeah the street does too right and that's that's part of that project anyway and but right now there's just kind of a battle of how do you pay for that and what were your priorities because there's a mixed bag of folks that some want to do the uh the big eight streetcape and extend that some see the revitalization of Jefferson fixing the street up and helping uh those B because there's a lot of momentum on Jefferson right now with property owners Changing Hands you know properties changing ownership and uh and businesses moving into space and revitalizing space And so there's there's a lot of movement going on right now but there's not a whole lot of urban renewal activity out there and so that's part of that conversation is is where are the urban renewal priorities and and where do want to allocate resources and so um anyway that's I think that's a future work session later this year but uh there's no really direction or focus on uh one versus another commission comments I'm glad to be here thanks awesome

well you we motion um I don't know if we have to but we don't have to