Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Oops.

There is a sign-in sheet, and Jen also has one if someone wants to speak. I don't think your microphone's on. You're all good?

Yeah. Okay. It is 6 o'clock. We'll call the plan commission meeting to order at this time. Welcome to those in attendance. And to the commission, we have all members except Dietrich and Jagman leave. Okay. Correct. So we do have a quorum. Approval of the minutes from July 7th. Is there a motion to approve? Motion and a second. Discussion? Second by Horning, I believe, or Steinbrenner, I don't know which one. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried unanimously. All right. We have two public hearings this evening. First one is the neighborhood of Mantua County, Inc., doing business as Mantua Quarming Shelter, conditional use permit, request for a temporary warming shelter at 2601 South 10th Street. Paul, if you want to go through this. Okay.

There we go. So the map on the screen, the area in crosshatch yellow is the subject property. It's on South 10th Street, just north of Vibon. To the west is Calvary Cemetery. To the north, east, and south is basically residential. A little bit further south on Vibon is some commercial, a car wash and a convenience store. So the neighborhood of Manitowoc County has identified St. Paul Lutheran Church on South 10th Street as a temporary warming shelter for up to 12 guests for a 150-day operating period. Last year, the warming shelter was located in the Lakeshore Cap Building, which was at 702 State Street. But due to building and life safety code issues, the warming shelter needed to look for a different location. The Mantua warming shelter will operate under the same general conditions as the State Street location The warming shelters request is not asking for any additional guests or a longer operating period Staff from building inspection and police and fire walk through the location on South 10th Street Complete basically it was a life safety Walkthrough and they're fine with the location from like a building code life safety issue there are a couple minor things that they're working through but nothing major and The city zoning code does not specifically define emergency warming shelter, so the closest category we have is transitional housing. Transitional housing is defined as housing intended to provide the support needed for temporary occupants who lack a fixed, regular, and adequate nighttime residence to move into long-term housing. and which is usually offered as part of a transitional program that helps homeless individuals and families become independent through counseling, job training, child care, skills training, and health care assistance. Kind of like all the other conditional use permits that the commission is familiar with, the city, the plan commission and council can place conditions on conditional use requests. They have to look at... Three items. One, is it reasonably necessary for the convenience and welfare of the public? Two, is it in harmony with the character of the surrounding area? Will it have minimal effect or no effect on the surrounding property values? And again, there's also the condition use permits are governed by state statute, and we've talked about this multiple times where where basically the condition use permit has to be issued with the conditions, conditions have to be accepted by the requester, and in the future, if there's some conditions that are not being followed, then the council can go and pull the condition use permit. We've never actually had to do that in any condition use permit that we've issued. We did send out notices, I believe it was last Monday or Tuesday. I think we sent out a day early because this meeting's a day early, and I have not received any calls or communications or anything from the neighbors. So that concludes my comments.

Thank you. We'll open it up to the commission if there are any questions for Paul at this time. All right. If not, this is a public hearing for this specific subject matter. If there's anyone interested in speaking, please just raise your hand. You will be allowed five minutes to speak. Yes, please just state your name and address for the record.

My name is Ken Walters, 2703 South 23rd, Apartment 4. Over the last four years, I've spent 600 nights, give or take a little bit, at the warming shelter. I'm not homeless. I'm proud to tell you that I'm a volunteer. I'm one of over 120 volunteers who help keep the worming shelter running. In previous years, I've come up here, and I've asked you for this, and I've asked you for that, and you've been very kind. But today I was thinking about a story in a very good book that I recommend everybody read at least once about a number of lepers who were healed. but almost none came back. So today, I'd like to say thank you. Thank you to this commission. Thank you to the city council. Thank you to the residents of Manitowoc. Thank you to the businesses. Thank you to the churches. Thank you to the citizens who have helped us, who have helped our brothers and sisters, and it could be any one of us, survive the winter. And I'd like to tell you a little story tonight. Every year we average about 20% of our guests actually come back and tell us that they've gotten housing, they've gotten a job, they've reconciled with their family, or what have you. That's 20%. Those are just the people that we know about. We hear rumors of others, but 20% is a pretty good success rate. Last season, a woman came in, and we'll just call her Mary, for the sake of a keeping her anonymous. And she came in, kept to herself, very quiet, didn't eat, went to her cot, one of 12, laid down, and cried herself to sleep. The next day, she repeated. She came in, kept to herself, didn't eat, cried herself to sleep. Third night. My curiosity got the better of me. I said, you don't need to tell me anything, but would you like to share your story? And she said, yes. I have little children. And I can't be with my little children because I can't stop drinking. And because I can't stop drinking, I don't have a place to spend the night. And I've been sleeping on the ground. I've been sleeping on the concrete. I've been sleeping on benches. And when my little kids do see me, because their dad drives them past where I am, there I am laying on the ground. So I'm homeless, and I need a place to stay. That was the third night. The fourth night, she wasn't there. The fifth night, she wasn't there. And I thought, oh my stars, what have I done? Did I intrude too much into her life? The next night, the sixth night, she came back. And she's like this. She needs to talk to me. I know she needs to talk to me. So we went through our procedure. And she went back, and she got something to eat. She sat down. And I said, did you want to talk to me? And she said, yes. She goes, I'd like to show you something. She pulled out. Here's my sober chip. One day, tomorrow, my little kids and I have a place to stay because I have this chip. And I wouldn't have this chip if you wouldn't let me sleep here. About a month later, I said, hi. Don't take this wrong, but I hope I don't see you again. She said, I hope I never see you again. About a month later, I didn't see her, but I saw her picture. She had just been hired at a factory here in town and had been chosen employee of the month. She's got stable employment. She's with her kids. That's why we have a warming shelter in Manitowoc. That's why I'm here to say thank you. Thank you, Manitowoc. Thank you for surrounding areas. Thank you, everyone who has helped.

Thank you for your comments. I think that might have been something online that was going off. If you just want to mute it, thank you. Anyone else interested in speaking? Yes, just state your name and address for the record, please.

Pastor Matt Sauer, 1819 South 25th Street here in Manitowoc. We've been together a lot over the years, and I echo Ken's thank you. But I just want to make it clear for everyone else who may be listening tonight that the people staying at the Manitowoc Warming Shelter are not strangers that come into our community. They're already here. they are our neighbors last year we served 83 unique individuals at the shelter and of we have we asked for a volunteer voluntarily they can complete this survey about you know how they ended up here 64 of those 83 completed it 57 stated that they lived in manitowoc county 44 said that they live specifically within the city of Manitowoc. 48 considered Manitowoc County their home, and 49 stated that they have family, friends, and other support systems here in town. Shelter guests grow up here. They had They have family here. They went to school here. They graduated from high school here. They've worked here. They've lived here for years. And many of them have lived here their entire life. So when we talk about allowing the warming shelter to operate at St. Paul Lutheran Church, we're not talking about bringing all this homeless people and the problems in the Manitowoc. What we're doing is talking about providing a safe place for Manitowoc residents, for the folks who are already here. We're talking about basic life safety things. Instead of letting them freeze at night, we're operating an opportunity for them to be taken care of. And this brings me to another thing I want to emphasize tonight. It's about safety. We were asked to find a temporary location that met certain guidelines, mainly that the building be sprinklered and that it have appropriate exits from the building. We've done that. We found that in St. Paul Lutheran Church. As Paul mentioned, we had the fire chief, the assistant chief. We had life safety here. We had electrical inspector here. We had like two other people. I wasn't quite sure how they were. as well as the chief of police, walk through the building with the church's pastor, walk through, and yeah, they were a little thing, let's make sure the light bulbs are working and the exits, I mean, things like that. But they said that things were good, that we met those conditions that the city attorney in a conversation with you and the council asked us to meet. So we're not just opening doors, we're also providing a space that is safe, safe for guests as well as safe for the community. Last winter, we provided 1,655 nights of shelter to 83 unique people. We provided another 112 nights through hotels when we didn't have room. And even on top of that, there were still individuals that we had to turn out into the cold. If we do not provide a safe and organized place for our neighbors to live, they don't disappear. It just means they're sleeping outside, they're sleeping in their cars, they're sleeping on the streets, they're sleeping in doorways, they're sleeping in the bushes. All the things that we say we don't want them here because that's what they're doing. We're trying to work with you to solve an issue in the community. With the shelter, we can assist in moving our neighbors into apartments, into Hope House, into the Haven. We've helped our neighbors find rental housing, employment, sobriety. We've reconnected them with all sorts of forms of stability. Without the shelter, you and I have to go to bed, during the winter, knowing that we are allowing our neighbors to sleep and possibly die of exposure in the cold. We have a building that meets our needs. We have community partners that are willing to make it work. And we have demonstrated over the last three seasons that we know how to do this well. So I asked the plan commission to approve the conditional use permit. to pass it on to the city council, and let's continue to care for our citizens of Manitowoc. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Anyone else interested in speaking? Yes. Please just state your name and address for the record.

Pastor Heather of St. Paul Lutheran Church, 1519 20th Street in Two Rivers. We have been partnering with the warming shelter for several years now, and when this was brought to us, we were excited as a church to be able to step in and fill this gap. We are looking forward to providing this opportunity. Today, we actually had an opportunity to talk to several of our neighbors In the surrounding houses around us and they expressed Joy and excitement and being able to provide this service to the community around us So I wanted to pass that along to the council that our neighbors around us are in support of this so I want to thank the account planning committee to for their opportunity to hear this and Ask that you pass this along to the council. Thank you.

Thank you. I Anyone else interested in speaking on this specific subject matter? Going once, is there any previously submitted? Paul, you said you did not receive anything else?

Nope, I didn't receive any calls at all. Okay.

Jen, anyone on? Nope, all right. All right, I'll go once, twice. We'll close this public hearing. We'll bring it back to the commission for a recommendation. Paul?

Recommendation is to approve the issuance of a conditional use permit to the neighborhood of Mantua County. Well, I'll stop at that. I was just going to say DBA address, so basically it's approve the conditional use permit. I want the commission to know I did provide Pastor Sauer with the conditions prior to the meeting, so he had a chance to look at them. I'm not sure if there's any tweaks or anything. Thank you. So recommendation, approve the comp.

I'll look to the commission then for a motion.

I'll move that... We approve the cup with the exception of items or conditions M and O.

Is there a second?

Second. Motion and a second. Discussion?

So just to clarify, item N is as the use is for an emergency warming shelter, no unhoused individual may be permitted to use the shelter for more than 76 nights a year. And O is a lottery system shall be implemented whenever more than 12 eligible unhoused individuals seek shelter at the emergency warming shelter in a single night. And maybe I can explain why. Absolutely, you made the motion.

I think the plan commission is here to decide on land use, not operations of a facility.

And if I could be allowed to speak in discussions with Dan and also with Pastor Matt, I agree with what Dan had to say, that our issue should be land use. But I also believe there has to be a certain amount of trust between the parties here. And I believe that Pastor Matt is a trustworthy individual. And he plans to stay with these conditions, whether we dictated them or not. So I am in agreement with Dan in that regard. Thank you.

Further discussion? Mr. Steinbrenner.

I'm a little concerned that those two items appear as kind of salve, or maybe the Planning Commission wouldn't accept the concept if we didn't throw them a bone. And I don't think we need a bone. I think I'm speaking for myself that we all see the needs. And so I speak in favor.

Thank you. Dan. Yeah, I don't disagree with anything. Sorry, that got loud. I don't disagree with anything that's been said. I just, in regards to Ann, Was there not a legal reason for that because it somehow established a residency or something? Wasn't that why it was initially put in there? If you could refresh my memory.

To be honest with you, I don't know offhand. I know this was this pretty much these conditions are pretty much identical to on State Street.

Right.

And at that time on State Street conditions, staff worked with the city attorney. and that's kind of where these conditions were drafted. So to be honest with you, I would have to defer that question to Eric, the city attorney, and just to see if there was a legal...

I think I can speak to that, too. The concern, I think, was that it would not become a permanent... I remember the conversation from last year that it would not become a permanent solution for an individual throughout the entire year, that there should be... They should seek the Haven or some other opportunities. But I think the reason I supported that last year is because we wanted them to get information as to what individuals are coming here for how long. Are they seeking it for an entire winter versus trying to find something else? So what I see from the stats that they provided was four to six nights of shelter denied because of the 76-day rule, which was two individuals. That's the type of information I was looking for last year as to the data, as to how many individuals are being turned away because because they're there for the entire year or not. So that was the reason to really cut it kind of in half of what a winter would be. So the fact that they provide information now that it was two individuals that that affected is helpful to me to Dan's motion of why I would support eliminating it this year.

So what I'm hearing, if I could continue, what I'm hearing is that it wasn't a legal basis, it was an information. Correct.

That's my understanding. That is what I recall from that. That was the reason for it. So, yes.

Would there be a way to get clarification on that before the council votes on it? I mean, we're a recommending body, so it goes to the council.

Dan, you spoke with the city attorney. Was this one of the questions? I don't recall.

It was one of the questions, but he really just said, well, since they requested it, we're pretty clear.

But... There was no clarification. Again, we can get clarification for council for sure, but I'm 95% sure that there wasn't a legal 76-day. It was ours that we wanted to know more information. Okay, thank you. If we were to approve another emergency warming shelter in future years. Dennis, yeah.

Somewhere along the line. we were told that other communities were bringing their homeless to Manitoba. And I just wonder if this wasn't thrown in here as a way to say, no, we're not going to get into that business. But I don't know that there is that business.

Again, my recollection of last year and why I was voting the way I was last year is to try and answer that question. And last year, from what I read through, assuming, I'm not assuming, I'm trusting that the information that they provided with the 83 uniques served, the stats that Pastor Stauer provided of the questionnaires that they asked and the individuals who voluntarily responded, that was the first year that they provided or got that information for this year. But we were pretty clear in speaking last year that for future years to keep approving this on a temporary basis, right? Not a permanent basis. That type of information is what we wanted to know. They provided it. So yes, to answer your question, the 76-day rule was put in there for those types of purposes.

Further discussion.

I just want to clarify... um so n and so n would eliminate the one individual how many times they can show a year or be there per year they would still have a 100 and um what's the total days 150 150 days total for the season which can be at their discretion i believe What's the timeline on the 150 days?

It is, the dates are November 12th through April 11th. And to be honest with you, I did not count the dates between that. I think that's like a floating.

So there's some flexibility if it's, yeah, if the weather in November is nicer. And then the lottery system would be eliminated, but the 12 individuals would be still undersea, correct? Correct.

yeah we have a little conversation with that i would i think that i didn't wasn't clear as to whether fire and safety said there should be there can be 12 people here or not so i don't know if this is an artificial 12 or if that's what this fire and safety said uh under

Item C, the emergency warming shelter shall be subject to a maximum of 12 unhoused individuals plus staff, volunteers at the location. So that would be covered under C. Thank you.

I'm just asking because your point of removing the other two were to be strictly zoning and not anything else, but yet that is... Yeah, well, I couldn't get that clarified before the meeting. And then I mean that's something that I would like to guess I guess understand a little better because Well, I think maybe building inspection my point is is the the previous ones there was a certain amount because there was no fire suppression system or Or are certain things what I heard was this building pretty much fits the code to have individuals stay overnight Can that 12 be more now because there are all these things that are met?

That's what I would like to know, I guess, is... Yeah, I can check in with building inspection and see on that.

I think it's really that fire and... Right, that's what I was always told.

Yeah.

It was all that, and that was the reason for the 12, where there was the comfort level, I guess, on staff, because there was nothing in state law or anything that dictated the specific number, but the comfortability of building inspection, police and fire was 12. Now that those things are met, I know they requested 12 because we told them 12, right? So I'm asking if we could...

I asked that question, but I didn't get an answer.

Okay, okay.

But I... think that's a great it'd be nice to know that because because if it could be more that could there's nothing in the record that says how many people can be there right from a fire and safety standpoint right so in other words we could approve this to be moved to council based on feedback from the fire department and uh the city would just be curious if that number could move now that all that criteria has been met right it's all right if You would approve, just say we'd approve it to the maximum allowable by fire and safety instead of 12.

All right, no less than 12 because that's what we've been approving. So I would be, I mean, you're making the motion. Is that okay? You're okay with that second? Okay, so the motion is to eliminate N and O in the conditional use permit. and to change the language in C to be the emergency warming shelter shall be subject to a maximum of... Let me just think here real quick. Emergency warming shelter shall be subject to a minimum of, or not to go beyond... Not to exceed the legal limit. Not to exceed the legal limit set, or that would be determined by... by police fire building inspection based off of life safety concerns, but would not be lower than the 12, which has been approved in previous years. Yeah, Jen, do you got that? Well, so yeah, so the council meeting would be September 21st, which would, this would be the official approval for. So I would recommend that by then we have the final, we can send it off to the plan commission of what that would be. But, I think we all understand the gist of that, correct? So if it could be 14, that would be what the number would be, but that would be set by the departments. Okay, any further discussion? Everyone understand the motion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carried unanimously. Again, that'll be forwarded to the Common Council at their September 21st meeting. That would also be a public hearing there as well.

Yes.

Thank you. Move to the next public hearing, and that is for T.J. Potter Trucking, request for conditional use permit pursuant to section 15.330, parent 4B of the municipal code for the establishment of a storage in bulk or transloading activities area in the I-2 heavy industrial zoning district for property located at 2800 V-Bahn Street.

Paul. Okay. The area, again, is up on the screen. Area in yellow crosshatch. 26th Street and V-Bahn. Historically, it's been the Mantua Crane's testing area. The area is zoned I-2 heavy industrial. It was annexed, a little background, back in 1925. It's been zoned in some type of industrial since 1925. So historically, it's always been a use similar to this. Todd Potter, owner of TJ Potter Trucking, is under contract with 2800 V-Bahn LLC to purchase the 15-point acre parcel. It's generally located at the northwest corner of 26th and V-Bahn streets. I think we're familiar with Potter Trucking because we just had a conditions permit down the road to the west on V-Bahn that was approved. So basically what they do is they're a trucking entity, so trans-loading operations for, they serve customers locally and in the region. So larger, larger scaled operations. pieces of manufacturing are shipped from the locations. The area has historically been used as a lay down area. It's all gravel for the most part except the northeast corner. It's fenced in. So it's kind of, it's almost turnkey for a lay down area. Paul, this is the same one we had last month, correct?

Just in a different location? Exactly.

Yep. And a little side note, I do believe the other location, Mr. Potter, they did close on it, is from what I heard. I did not pull the records. So some of the plans that Potter would do with this site would just basically clean up, regrade the site, provide additional gravel, additional dust palliatives. Operating hours would be 7 AM to 5 PM, Monday through Friday, with some limited Saturday morning operations. There'd be lift equipment, forklifts, et cetera, on the site. conditional use permit. There's nobody in the audience, so I'm kind of cutting it quick here. We're all familiar with the conditional use permit process. We can put conditions on it. The conditions that you see in the packet are very similar to the other location. We did send out notices to neighbors last Monday. I did not receive any calls or communications regarding this project. And I do believe Mr. Potter, I think he called in, So that concludes my comments.

Are there any questions for Paul?

Dan.

So is this going to be a second location or he's moving it to this one instead of the other one?

To my knowledge, they're going to keep both locations.

Oh, okay.

So I'm not, so that's why I did a little research again, just did they purchase the other location? And I think they did.

Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Any further questions for Paul? All right, this is a public hearing, so anyone interested in speaking? I don't know, Jen, if there is someone online who is interested or not, but. No hands are up. No hands are up. All right, there is no one here. There was no previous, I'll call one, two, three. Close the public hearing, and the recommendation is?

Recommendation is to approve the conditional use permit per the conditions attached in your packet. Is there a motion?

So moved. Schley?

Second.

Second by Horning, discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried unanimously. Again, that one will also go to the September 21st council meeting with a public hearing. Old business. No way. Chapter 15, zoning code rewrite.

Well, this is what you've all been waiting for. You're going to read it page by page? Yeah, I'm going to start page one. So just to kind of give you a timeline. So this is probably a 98% copy. Staff, Dan's been part of the group. Greg's been part of the group. We've been seeing pieces come in and out, but we've never seen the full document. It is a little bit easier to kind of look through the whole document versus just pieces at a time, because at least for me, in my mind, I can see how the document works. In the past, I was just struggling with It's just not the format. So the plan is we're going to have, I'm going to send this out to yourselves tomorrow or Thursday. It'll probably be a link to a OneDrive, I believe, we'll set up. If anybody wants hard copies, let me know. I can print them off for you. Please do. Dave, do you think you'll want one?

I figured, yeah, Dave might. Dave probably will want one.

So we have that. So I'll send this out to you guys right away because you're familiar with it. On September 2nd, I think that's the day after Labor Day, I think. No, it's two weeks later. That's right, it's a week later. So our consultant is going to do like a memo of kind of the major changes. So then it'll help focus everybody on these are the big issues. from whatever it may be to like uh adus to warming shelters actually to create a definition for that so that but i think i want to get this in your hands sooner than later so but just keep in mind you'll see a memo coming early september the plan is this would come back to plan commission september 23rd um we don't have any projects that there's a definite deadline so if we feel we need more time we have that ability i also want to get it out to the council so they have time to look at it staff we have a working group dan hasn't seen this yet um i know you're eager um and actually adam and i are still going through it too so it's We're getting there. In addition, I will send you a zoning map. I'll send you a PDF, and I'll also send you a link to a GIS map where you can compare. Dan's been using it. You can compare the existing zoning map with the future zoning map, which is actually really nice. It's very user-friendly. Some other items that are running with this. Chapter 21, which is a subdivision code. We are rewriting that internally. So that's at a point, too, where I think what we're going to do is adopt everything on the same day and just be scratching our heads for a while, figuring everything out. We're going to have to go through the rest of the municipal code to make sure there's any, like, citations to, like, Chapter 15. Because once this is done, Chapter 15 doesn't exist. It's going to be Chapter 35. We are pulling out the floodplain ordinance out of the zoning code. It's going to be a standalone chapter. That's at basically the DNR model ordinance location. So that's kind of an update on the zoning code rewrites.

Any questions? Yeah, just inevitably there are going to be people who fall into your zoning was this and now we're proposing another zoning which potentially could put you into a legal non-conforming status. So is there any special notification that we can give those people so that they have an opportunity to appeal?

What I've been doing when people are calling with projects, I'll tell them that just so you know, we're going through this rewrite. If you do your project, submit it today, you're going to fall underneath the old code. But if you're buying a property, speculating, I'll do it a year out, and I've had quite a few calls on that. I'm telling them,

So how to do that, I'm not really sure how we would... We should think through that, because I wouldn't like... You know, I caught one where it's like we could potentially put them in a bad place.

Yeah, and that's what we tried to do with our working group, and again, Dan was part of it. We literally sat down in a room with our group and looked at the zoning map and kind of drove the city. We tried to keep... A vast majority, all the properties if possible. If they were zoned industrial under the current map, they're going to be industrial in the future map. But inevitably, we're going to miss some. I know that talking with other communities, they said the day you adopt the zoning code, you're going to be changing it because you're going to miss something. It's impossible not to miss anything.

So yeah. You just have to be comfortable with it.

Yeah, so I've been trying. Just like the sign code too though. We changed the sign code right after as well, or big pieces of it, so yeah.

Yeah, so yes, I've been trying to mention it to everybody I possibly can. So yeah, we're gonna try our best.

The good thing about this is Paul has promised not to retire for 15 years to make sure that we see it all through.

No, now would be a good time. No one's an expert on it. It's going to be new to everybody. That's for sure.

Yeah. Any other questions for Paul? All right. Anything under CSMs or site plans?

I guess I just want to come back real quick just so if anybody thinks we don't have enough time or you don't have enough time looking through this. you know, let us know right away so we can, we're just trying to figure out when we can have the public hearing, so we're trying to backtrack it.

Next meeting is? September 23rd? Fourth Wednesday? Fourth Wednesday. Will it? All right, there's a motion. Is there a motion to adjourn?

Just one. Do you say September 23rd? Yeah. Yeah, the fourth Wednesday. The normal. Yeah, normal time.

This would be the normal one, yeah. We had a change today. Thank you for me.

Move we adjourn.

Motion by Horning, second by Schley. We are adjourned.

That's the best. I rarely get to throw a flag. It's lined up offside. Son, you've got to move your feet further in the second and third. I'm going to throw a penalty flag at him?

I don't think so.

So I may be late that night.