Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

Tim, this is Josh. Can you hear us? Yes, sir. This is Tim. All right. You are connected and stay tuned for further information. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening. Welcome to board of supervisors uh public hearing and approval of rate Thursday, April 9th, 2026. Board meeting room. Tim, you need to mute your sound, please. 39 Bank Street, Southeast Chattam, Virginia 24531. Uh, Madame Clerk, would you call the role, please? Yes, sir. Mr. Bowman, here. Mr. Brown, here. Mr. Dalton, here. We have Mr. Dudley, remote. Mr. Dudley, can you please list your address? Yes, ma'am. I hear you.

Can you list your um your address that you're calling in from and the reason for you joining remote, please? Um, yes, ma'am. It's 284 Clover Road and I just had surgery on my right shoulder and I'm in a lot a lot of pain right now. Thank you, Mr. Whittle. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Mr. Ingram, present. Mr. Tucker, here.

Um, thank you. Uh, it is not on the agenda, but I believe it's befitting that we have a moment of silence before we get started. Thank you. Join me in our pledge of allegiance, please. To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you so much. Now that protocol has been established, I will Are there any additions to the agenda? Any additions to the agenda? We have Mr. Mr. Hurst. I'm so sorry. Any additions to the agenda? Uh, no, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, sir. All right. I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Thank you, Mr. Ingram. Second. Thank you, Mr. Bowman. Any discussion? Hearing none, please vote electronically.

Mr. Mr. Dudley, can I get your vote? Yes. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Motion passes unanimously. Thank you.

Moves us down to agenda item number four, uh, A, public hearings. Each person addressing the board on the public hearing shall step up, give his or her name and district and or his or her place of residence for non-county citizens and audible tone of voice for the record and unless further time is granted by the chairman shall be limit shall limit his or her address to three minutes. Speakers for a group shall be limited to 10 minutes. Speakers shall conclude their remarks at that time unless the consent of the board is affirmatively given to that time given to extend the speaker's allotted time. Absent chairman's approval, no person shall be able to speak who has not signed up to speak. Uh item one, public hearing, proposed adjustment to real estate tax and solid waste household fee. Mr. shorter. Good evening and welcome. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, fellow board members. Okay. So, this evening we're here to um have a public hearing for the proposed tax and solid waste fee increase. Uh the proposed tax rate adjustment, the current rate is 56 cents per 100 of

assessed value on real estate. The proposed tax rate is 66 cents per 100 of assessed value of real estate. 1 cent on the tax rate equals approximately $64,000 in re real estate revenue. This adjustment is intended to support maintain support maintaining current levels of service addressing rising operational costs. On this sheet, the next sheet will show that the estimated impact on the median um household value in Pennsylvania County is $225,000. In the far left column, you'll see that the impa impact of the current and the proposed tax rate on an average $225,000 valued home. The current tax rate at current tax rate of 56. The annual taxes is $1,260 a year. The proposed tax rate, those taxes on that same home would go up to $1,485 a year. The annual increase would be $225 per year. The monthly cost would be $18.75. The middle column is the solid waste household fee. The current fee is $120 a year. The proposed fee is $200 a year. The annual increase is $80 per year, which equates to $667 monthly. In the far right column, you'll see the total of those. The current solid waste fee at the current rate and the current um real estate tax rate at 56 cents. The homeowners paying $1,380 a year. Those two combined if if this

proposal is uh implemented would be $1685 a year. The annual increase is $35 a year. The monthly total is $2542 a month would be the increase to the average homeowner. The general fund budget growth and inflation trends we looked back over the last five years. You'll see from FY23 through the proposed FY27 budget that it varies depending on what on a number of factors that we'll go through later on in this. Um, but the average year-over-year annual inflation rate uh for Pennsylvania County governmental services is 7.1%. Um the national average over that time has been between five and 6%. But we'll go over some things where inflationary pressures uh for the cost of governmental uh equipment and services sometimes is much higher than the uh cost for an average home. the top five departments by budget increase uh for this year's economic development and shared tax revenue of 1,524,475. I'll give a brief explanation that you want to see that number go up every year because we have to account on the expenditure side for these reimbursements back to the to the companies and their incentives to locate here in our community and start paying taxes. And the share taxes is is in uh RIFFA owned properties where we have joint revenue agreements with other localities and we have to pay them their share of the taxes collected. So the

good news on this first one is every penny of that money, none of it comes from the citizens pockets or their taxes. It's coming from the companies that have located here's taxes and that money is accounted for in the revenue side of the budget. but it has to be budgeted on the expenditure side to make those dis dispersements. Number two is the school board um represents a $1,289,000 and $25 increase. Uh this year's budget public safety for both the volunteer fire and rescue and career is one,822,154. The sheriff's department, including jail operations, is $1,762,267. And reassessment is $881,500. And as you all well know, that's mandated by the state. We have to do it every four years. It's not optional. We have to do it. I'll I'll get into the schoolboard funding mechanism a little later later on, but that's another one of those that is not optional. The state decides what that amount's going to be from year to year. So, what are what are the ways that we could approach a a balancing local government budget? There's really three categories or combination of the three. So inflation happens and inflation happens in everyone's household in everyone's life. Um all of us have experienced it will continue to experience it. It's happened every year that I've been alive. Um so so you can either increase your revenues, increase the money coming in to offset inflation

and so you can increase in in the form of of government revenues or taxes. So, an increase in year-over-year taxes to keep up with the rate of of the inflation of 7%. That generates additional funds through annual incremental tax rate adjustments and natural growth and tax base providing steady and predictable revenue over time. So, the other two alternates to just raising taxes. Number two is to reduce services. you can just start reducing whatever services that that the county provides. Just start reducing the level or amount of them. So, this lowers expenditures by reducing or eliminating services, delaying projects, scaling back operations. While it saves money, it can impact service delivery and community expectations. Um, delaying projects is another good way of saying kicking the can down the road or putting a band-aid over over a situation just to get it to the next year or whatever. And um, the third option is revenue growth. And that's my favorite and that's what I that I know this board is very interested in and very supportive of and and is pushing forward with uh revenue growth and so am I. So, the only other way out of this either raising taxes or cutting services is to grow your tax base by 7% every year. And we haven't been doing that. As a matter of fact, we've lost population since 1978. The county population has actually decreased from when we peaked in 1978. We also have to attract new industry and outside companies and industries that are not currently operating in our locality but inviting them in to become

part of the the new tax base. So it has to be a combination of all the three. Obviously we would I personally would love for option number three to carry the load every year and that's our goal moving forward is trying to shift in that direction of supporting growth mandated and required capital obligations. uh two of them on our our board right now uh or or on our agenda that we have to do that are they're not going to be optional is we are currently um under a a court order to fix an almost 200y old courthouse. So the courthouse that we all see standing on Main Street was built in the 1850s. It has certainly served its purpose, but it currently does not meet the state standards for a courthouse facility for safety, security, for a number of reasons operationally. And that project has been on the radar for quite some time, but now the time has come that the county is under court order to do something. We are being uh forced to address that issue. It's not an option. It is something we're going to have to do. We currently don't know what the total cost is going to be. We don't know what the total um remedy is going to be. So until we have cost projections and it gets to the point of whatever construction needs to occur and we obtain those construction bids, will we know exactly what that cost estimate will be? um that was looked at back in 2019 and it was in the tens of millions of dollars and I'm sure it's going to be much more than that in today's dollars.

The other thing that we're being mandated to address is the Cherry Stone Dam um which the county is a a part owner of. And like the courthouse, we don't know to the penny of what that's going to cost until the design and engineering work has been completed and approved um by the regulatory agencies that have to do that. And until it goes to bid, will we know exactly what it will cost? But it has been estimated around our portion would be around $6 million for that project. So this next slide shows some essential and mandated services. In the left column you will see services that are mandated by the state. Once again these are not optional. It's not something where we have control over of what it costs to to pay for these services. The first one is the Department of Social Services that accounts for a little over 1% of the total FY27 budget. Schools is 27.45% of the FY27 budget. Library almost 2% 1.99 State Health Department. 46 almost a half a percent. Children's Services Act 1.98% almost two% Mental Health.99% almost at 1%. All of those add up to 33.95%. Those are statemandated. We have to spend that money. Public safety services um the emergency management department consists of 2.03% of this this proposed budget. Corrections

is um 7.17% public safety volunteer 4.27% for your fire and rescue public safety paid uh EMS services 4.91% and sheriff's department 11.63 for a total of 30.02% of this budget. So public safety and statemandated services account for approximately 64% of the total budget constraining available budget options. So the the budget split between mandated and public safety services versus the remainder of governmental departments in the county plays out like this. A significant portion of the FY27 budget increase, approximately 5.25%, is driven by mandated obligations that we just covered and public safety services. These include costs required by the state or federal government or federal requirements as well as essential public safety functions such as police, fire, and emergency services. Because these areas are largely fixed or extremely or externally required, they tend to have excess budget growth year after year by 4.6% 4 to 6%. The remaining 33 departments together combined make up 3.53% of FY27 budget increase. Individually, these departments experience smaller changes and when combined, they account for a smaller portion of overall budget growth compared to mandated uh public safety services. The average annual inflation rate for the previous 5 years

is approximately 4.46 for these 33 departments. As you can see, this year it's uh almost a percentage below their historical increase. school funding. So, school funding, as you know, is set by the state. They use a funding formula called the local composite index that they basically put a lot of variables and data into this formula and calculate what a locality's ability to pay for schools is. And when they calculate that, they pass that number down to the locality and that's what we're mandated to pay to operate the schools. FY26. So we went back and looked at since the previous tax any previous tax rate adjustment we just looked at these three years. FY26 the local funding increase increase over the previous year was 1,735,559. That tax rate impact is 3. FY27, which is our our current budget year, the local funding increase is 1,289,25 and that tax rate increase is 2 cents because each cent on the real estate is $600,000 roughly of tax income or revenue. So if we're looking over a period that making the assumption if taxes increase this year, they were not last year and most likely not next year, then next year's estimated increase, additional increase will be in the based on

historical numbers, $1.5 million, which would be an additional 2.5 cents of increase. So taking these three together since the last time there was a tax rate adjustment that's 7 12 cents on the tax rate of the 10 cent being uh proposed at the beginning of this uh proposal. School funding continues to represent a major and reoccurring driver of local tax rate adjustments reflecting sustained investment needs across fiscal years. widespread cost uh pressures across departments. Departments like public public safety services tend to see higher cost increases because they rely heavily on personnel, fuel, equipment, materials. These cost drivers often rise faster than general inflation, which puts additional pressure on those budgets. IT departments also see higher than average increases as well due to technology costs and ongoing contractual obligations. These cost drivers tend to increase annually of often exceeding general inflation in certain years. The biggest increases are in essential and operational areas. So, what's driving the public safety cost growth? One example is fire trucks. The price of a new fire apparatus is nearly doubled since around 2020, with many departments reporting significant higher prices and long delivery times. Fire apparatus that previously cost 300 to 500,000 now can see can exceed a million dollars. Ambulances.

Ambulances historically cost around 200,000 or less a decade ago, but departments are now reporting price prices closer to 500 thou 400,000 or more. 500,000 rolled off the tongue because I talked to a fire chief that said that his latest one was costing right at that amount, 500,000. Patrol vehicles. So patrol vehicles to the sheriff's department are aging faster and costing more to maintain and replace, especially when fully equipped with radios, lights, computers, and safety equipment. Patrol vehicles that cost approximately 40 to 50,000 in 2020 now range from 55,000 to 70,000 when fully equipped. Essential services and cost constraints. These costs are difficult to reduce because they they fund essential services that residents rely on every day. In addition, many of these purchases such as fire apparatus, am ambulances, and government software exist in specialized markets with limited vendors and consistent demand from local governments. This creates pricing pressures that are often higher than typical consumer goods contributing to continuing cost increases. In other words, these things are not uh firet trucks, ambulance, police cars is not something we can go to the local dollar store and buy. They're specialized markets. What's driving public safe safety cost growth? Equipment and supplies. In addition to the base vehicle, fully outfitted public safety units with medical equipment, radios, lighting, protective gear, and specialized tools significantly increased total cost, which have risen due to inflation and advance in technology. And I just gave

two. I could stand up here all night and give examples, but one is tasers for the sheriff's office. In 2019, they cost $1,500 per unit. In 2025, $5,000 per unit. And so, in four years, the cost of that one item has over tripled. Yet, not another thing we can go to the dollar store and price check it. It just it's it's one of those closed markets. They know they're selling to governments. an ambulance stretcher. In 2024, same stretcher cost $55,000. In 26, $67,500, approximately 22% increase within two years. So, you can see how those things definitely outpace the average household inflation. There's a proposal to expand the uh career medic um service to the Ringold area. This would be medic truck number five. The county currently has four uh professional medical vehicles uh situated around the county. They have one in Hurt, one in Chadam, one in Mount Herman, and one at six the former 640 Riceville Java rescue down in in in the Java community. The reason driving this one is a request from the Ringold uh chief saying that the the call time when they can't make a call for a backup unit to get there is ranging between 26 and over 40 minutes. And that's a long time if you're waiting for for medical assistance. And those citizens down in that southeastern part of the county uh are kind of isolated. They have the one one department ringold that covers that entire area. And if for

whatever reason they're unavailable on another call, it's a long ways from another truck to come. and those citizens in that area deserve uh the same level of of service as as the other areas of the county. So, this this Medic 5 truck would operate out of the Kentuck Fire Department. It would provide uh EMS coverage for the Laurel Grove area that no longer um runs EMS service and improve regional response times. Its operational impact would be a dedicated coverage for certain areas including the Laurel Grove community and then would be a second due response backup service for the Ringold Fire and Rescue Department. Increased uh system redundancy and faster response. The financial impact to stand that fifth truck up is $1.1 million, which is approximately 2 cents on the real estate tax rate. smaller department um example of IT cost increases. So this this is another department of those smaller departments that had the lower rate of inflation. You can see that even some of those departments experienced much higher than the national average of inflation. IT costs continue to rise due to ongoing software subscriptions, cyber security requirements, cloud services, and regular equipment replacement. As technology involve evolves, these expenses are necessary to maintain secure, reliable systems that support all county departments following the issuance of an RFQ for 10 laptops. And and this hasn't been too far in the the the recent past. Pricing increased

$4,500 on 10 10 computers. The price increased $4,500 within just one week highlighting rapid cost escalation in the technology um for technology purpose purchases. The explanation we're getting from vendors is data centers, IT centers, I mean um um artificial intelligence centers are gobbling up all the the memory is what's driving the price on those units. That the memory itself, the cost for the memory for those computers, which you can't operate without, went up $450 at one fail swoop like that. uh software from FY26 to FY27 has increased by 12%. This is something we can all uh relate to is fuel fuel price increases. Fuel costs have increased significantly rising approximately 20 to 30%. We're we're right now in the 30 plus% range over last year's cost at this time. No fault of our own. nothing we can do about it. Uh which directly impacts the cost of operating departments across the county. What's been factored in at this point is 20%. And like I say, 20% to date does not cover. We can't it may go higher, may go lower, but 20% was the minimum increase that we factored in. And at 20% the for the general fund departments that will equate to 90,384 more dollars for fuel this budget year than the previous budget year. And that's a very conservative estimate, 20%. We're already well over that today as we stand here. Fuel increase for the enterprise fund uh operations, water and sewer would be $3,800 yearoveryear and

the solid waste department would be $88,000 year-over-year. So that's $182,000 added to this year's budget due to just what we see at the pump at a 20% increase. If that continues the rate it's going and it hits 40, like I say, we're north of 30 now. That's 364,000 extra dollars just for fuel. The proposed solid waste uh household fee adjustment. The annual solid waste fee currently is $120 per household. The proposed annual fee is $200. That would be a $80 increase per year. The key cost drivers are landfill operations and maintenance cost, heavy equipment replacement, which are the compactors and loaders, cell construction and liner systems. This is the actual hole in the ground that the garbage goes in at the landfill. Uh postclosure and environmental moni monitoring obligations. Once we close the sale, we don't just walk away from it. It's still monitored by the environmental uh agencies and we have to monitor that and make sure we're in compliance. Uh all that cost cost money. Uh leche management and treatment, gas uh collection and environmental compliance. and fuel and fleet maintenance are some of the cost drivers there. The solid waste system, this is the the cost to dispose of just residential Pennsylvania county residents garbage. The total cost to dispose of citizen solid waste for fiscal year 25 was 5,11,4 five,11,44655.

Revenue at current fee at $120 per household brought in $3 million $3,48,54. As you can see, there's a big gap between what it costs to dispose citizens garbage and the revenue being collected um from the citizens to to fund that is a1,963,29255 funding gap. Upcoming landfield capital uh improvement needs are phase three sale construction. So, we'll be starting a new phase at the landfield with a new sale. That will cost just to create that new sale is $4,600,000. The closure of a previous sale is $2,600,000. The Leche storage tank, the Leche storage tank is a million dollar. Uh adding a convenience uh site in the Java community would be 600,000. required equipment replacement and we're well beyond the life uh span of the equipment. We're having multiple major u repairs having to be done. The 836 compactor is in need of immediate replacement at 1,656,756. The D8 dozer1,354,114.80 80s and a D5 dozer $593,229. Total estimated capital needs are 12,44,100.40. So what are the approaches? You know, we

had three approaches of of how to mitigate rising cost for the real estate tax increase. These are options for cost recovery for the for the solid waste fee. Number one is to adjust the user fee. Increase solid waste fees to align with the actual cost of the service. Uh it maintains current level of service self sustaining enterprise fund structure and userbased cost allocation. Option two would be to reduce service levels. Um, I've had this this conversation with with folks and that would increase that would cause you to you still have to process the same amount of garbage. The only thing you could do is reduce the amount of collection points um that the garbage is received. Um, and then option three would be general fund support. So you take general fund tax dollars from real estate and personal property taxes and fund the fund the landfill through that through that method. So the FY25 cost to dispose of residential solid waste with the adjusted household fee would have been the total cost to dispose that garbage was 5,11,44655. The revenue from $200 solid waste fee would be $5,80,000250 $80,257. And that would leave you a funding reserve of $68,81045 to put in your fund balance that obviously will not cover $12.4 million

of capital needs. So that wouldn't even make the the payment on borrowing the money for that. So that's where taking in the outside garbage and the profits thereof would have to 100% support the building, the new sale, replacing the equipment and all of the items I mentioned previously. The impact of shifting solid waste cost to the general fund if the solid waste uh fee uh is not self- sustaining would be the funding shortfall must be covered by the general fund. Expenses shift from service users to to all taxpayers reduces available funding for other county priorities. The estimated tax impact would be um 8.5 cents on the real estate tax rate to completely eliminate the solid waste fee. So in addition to the proposed 10 cent, it would have to be an additional 8 1.5 cent. Uh increase cost for property owners regardless of usage, distributes cost across all taxpayers instead of the direct users. And why maintaining a self-sufficient enterprise fund matters? It preserves the userbased cost model, avoids additional tax burden on residents, and supports long-term financial sustainability. This was very difficult. We looked at all surrounding localities. A lot of localities um have either one collection point they call a transfer station or they have five or six collection points. They don't have typically have landfills. The only place close to us that had a comparable uh situation was Franklin County that operates the landfield and has, as you see on the left, Franklin County has 10 convenient sites, 46 green

box sites, which is the old style dumpsters that have been around forever. Uh their tipping fee at the gate is $55 a ton. Their household fee is $300 a year. Pennsylvania County has 24 convenience sites, seven green box sites, $45 per ton tipping fee. The current household waste fee is $120 and being proposed to go to 200. When comparing landfill operations across localities, it's important to recognize that each system is structured differently with unique cost drivers making direct comparisons difficult. Our focus should remain on the actual cost to operate and maintain our own system. With that in mind, Franklin County is the closest comparable locality. Their tipping and household fees are higher than ours while they continue to provide a higher level while we continue to provide a higher level of service to residents. Any questions?

All right. Board questions from the board, please. Mr. Sher,

hang on, sir. Sir, sir, hang on one second. Hang on one second. We're going to get to having uh the public to speak, but you're going to have to come to the podium. Okay. Thank you. Questions from the board. Yes, sir. Mr. B.

Uh, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Shorter. Thank you. is very very good presentation. Um I hope everybody understood that it's not what we want but that is a very good u comprehensive explanation of what the cost are to run Pennsylvania county. Um but that being said we'll hear what the public has to say about that. But thank you very much and thank Miss Vanderhyde and Garrett back there also for putting these packets together. Any other comments or questions for Mr. Shorter? Thank you, Mr. Shorter. It is now 7:39. I will open the public hearing. Madame Clerk, we're having one sign of a speak.

Yes, sir. Who's our first speaker? Robin Williams. Miss Williams. Good evening and welcome.

I'm Robin Williams. I live at 565 Deer Crest Lane and I'm in the Tungst District. Ma'am, I apologize. Can I get you to pull that microphone down, please? More. More. Just pull it on down. Is that better? Let's try that. Thank you. Right. Start again. That's good.

Okay. Uh I'm Robin Williams. I live at 565 Dearest Lane. Uh Mr. Ingram is about a half mile down the road from me. And I guess we've been on the same road for at least about 25 or 30 years. Uh Mr. Sharter, you gave a very good explanation of expected expenses and that covers the last point I'd like to make. My comments are that our budget needs to be as balanced as possible and the real estate in tax increase from 56 cents to 66 cents a dollar 100. It should even though we say it's going to be the amount it's going to cover cost, it should not be thrown at us at one false swoop. The same for the solid waste from 120 to $200 a year. That's a $80 increase. And this is a financial burden sometimes on fixed income people. Uh it seems like our population is getting more retired and some of us cannot afford to pay our taxes like we and we get a penalty for doing that. We have a current fee on our cars of what used to be a sticker fee of $40. And with the solid waste increase of $80, that $40 fee would definitely two cars would

uh that $80 fee was just would be um could cover eliminating the car tax. So in all I should say I would like Mr. Sharter did present a PowerPoint presentation, but I would like the board to think about after the state has given us the amount of money we need that you should reconvene and have another PowerPoint presentation available to the public comparing last year's physical budget and this year's physical budget, including the state, our school forward everything that Mr. Sharter presented to repres to do it again when the state has given us their funding so that the public can see the comparisons and understand the needs. Uh so with with that said I thank you very much.

Thank you ma'am. Madam clerk who's our next speaker? Michael Turner. Mr. Turner. Good evening and welcome.

Hi, my name is Michael Turner. I'm from the Tonsil district. I'd like to start by quoting a great movie, Cool Hand. Look, what we've got here is a failure to communicate. Y'all want something from us that we the people don't want to give you. I say each department take a cut until y'all can get our budget under control. Stop taking more from us property owners and spread the pain through the taxes that everyone shares, not just us. Most of us are on a fixed income and it hurts us to have to keep bearing the brunt of the tax burden. It's already hard to see where our money goes. Our roads look like something out of a third world country and there's trash all over the place and they're crumbling. Where's our bang for our buck? Finally, I'd like to say I understand our trash fee was supposed to be temporary. Now y'all want to increase waste fees. The answer to that is an emphatic no. What needs to happen is for it to go away since there are other municipalities that pay our county to dump. You know, this is the definition of sanity. I've been here talking about these same things before and you can guess what the results have been. Stop taxing us at our property. I've excuse me, stop taxing us out of our property. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Turner. Who's our next speaker? Philip Carter. Mr. Carter. Good evening and welcome, sir.

Uh, thank you. Uh, my name is Philip Carter. I live at 1013 Mad View Drive. I'm in Western District and you're my representative, Mr. Whipple. Uh, one thing about this, uh, talk about these uh, garbage fees and all, you know, we started out with 60 bucks. He said he's going to use it one time. I don't know if I got a memory or not, but said, "We're going to charge you one time. We got some problems. We need some money." Guess what? Turn around a year or two later. We need $120. They doubled it. Now you want $200 to cover it all up. But you know what he's talking about? That Franklin County gives so much more services. Well, let's think about the city of Danville. They don't charge but $16 a month and they come to their door and they pick up their garbage. And if you have waste, big heavy waste and stuff during the summer, leaves during the fall, they come and pick them up. Also, it seems to me it's mighty strange. I'm an auto technician for 40 years. Between the two uh areas, how in the world can they do so much better than Pennsylvania County? I would appreciate if you could explain that to me. And another thing, too, you know, I'm on a fixed income and in the past several years, our tax base has increased 48%. I don't know. But this year, my cola that I got from this federal government was 2.8%. Now, you know what I mean? I don't do a whole lot because you can't afford to. But you go out to eat here in this county right now. And you know, you spend a hundred bucks for a meal. You know, just a normal little meal. Turns around, you got to give the waitress some money. Just think about it. They need some money, too. They got to eat. They got children. But then again, you got that 20%. Then they going to charge 12.5% tax prepared food tax. That's 32% on top of $100. Do you really think that a person

that's on a fixed income and don't get but 2.8% more that he can afford is 48% on just the taxes, not including the insurance and all this other stuff that we all have to increase every year. I mean, don't get me wrong. I used to work for a living, but now I'm I'm retired and I'm not able to do work like I used to. But you know what? There's a time and a place that we as all individuals and human beings have to sit down and think, you know what? This money ain't yours. This is our tax dollars. We depend on you. Each and every one of y'all. We trust you with everything we own. Our children, our homes, our property, everything. And it seems to me at times we don't get any threat. It seems these big businesses and all they're the ones that gets all the underhanded. You know what I mean? It's to me I'm really disheartened and I'm really upset and I would appreciate y'all indulge and looking into doing the best you can for the people here in this county and I thank y'all very much.

Madam clerk, who's our next speaker? Charles Turner. Mr. Turner. Good evening and welcome.

I'm Charles Turner from the Tonal District. I live on Sheret Tree Church Road. Victor Ingram is my representative. I'm not in favor for any tax repree increase because what the man has gone over tonight pretty well takes away half of my fixed income. We got that two and a 2.8% increase. Medicare took it all but $28 from me. So, I've got $28 slush fund, but you want a hundred of it. That don't work. What I need to see you do is consider cutting your taxes to bring in more people into the county and stop them from moving away. Cuz if I could pack up my land and all that I own, I'd go to Florida. That's how I'm getting the feel of at Pennsylvania County. And I've been here for 81 years, 82 years. But I'm thinking Florida would be a place to go because tax, tax, tax is eating it up for me. Land solid waste fee. That is crazy. Back in the old day, we didn't have to worry about that. I'd say balance your budget. I've worked with the city of Danville. man came in after one year and said, "Boys, y'all y'all used over $400,000 this year, but we got to spend more next year or we lose it." I know y'all's budget's the same way. And you, the fire departments, they can't get big enough and have enough. I was one of the founding members. We started with an old gas tanker as a pump and another old storage tanker for water truck. We didn't have a fire station at Sharon at at Tontol Crossing. We our our firehouse was out in the field. Set the trucks out there. Now it just opened a Pandora's

box. You can't get big enough and have enough. You got to have almost doctors running around with every truck. You got to have an extra vehicle running around in front of that one. It just it it makes no sense. Uh you just got to stop spinning and balance your buzz. I have to balance mine. Like I said, I had $28 cost of living increase that was left over, but y'all want it all. I don't know what I'll do. I hope you can figure out your problem. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Michael Blackstock.

Mr. Blackstock, good evening and welcome. Good evening. My name is Michael Blackstock and I live in the Stanton River District. I also own and operate a business in this district. As you all know, we currently do not have a voice for the Stanton River District. So, I'm here tonight to speak to you all. Through my line of work, I'm in and out of homes across Pennsylvania County every day. Naturally, I connect with people and we talk about what's going on in our community. Taxes, solid waste fees, local events, and the challenges people are facing. One thing is clear, the people of this county cannot afford another tax increase or an increase in the solid waste fee. I see firsthand the financial strain many residents are under, especially the elderly and those on fixed incomes who are already struggling to make ends meet. Yet, every few years when the budget falls short, the county turns to raising taxes, leaving citizens with no choice but to absorb the cost. Two years ago, following the reassessment, the tax rate was reduced to 56 cent per $100 of assessed value. With the reassessment, the citizens of the county seen their property values increase an average of 48%. Now, just two years later, we are once again discussing a proposed tax increase. At the last board of supervisors meeting, the county voted to allocate $125,000 from a contingency fund funded in part by solar revenue for the 250th anniversary celebration on July 4th. Let me be clear. I fully support this event. My own business has contributed and I think it's great to see businesses and

individuals step up. Community events like this are important. However, we are in the middle of what many would consider a tax crisis. Why not make this event fully community funded? From my understanding, around $50,000 has already been raised. If we can use contingency funds for a celebration, it stands to reason that those same funds could be used to help offset the budget and provide relief to the citizens of this county. I understand that bills must be paid and difficult decisions must be made, but sometimes leadership requires making tough calls and asking departments to make cuts rather than continuing to place the burden on taxpayers. We have seen major announcements regarding new industry in the northern part of the county as well as the Berry Hill project. We can only hope that these developments will eventually help ease the financial burden on our residents. Looking ahead, we are scheduled for another reassessment in the near future. If we continue on this path, I believe we will be right back here in just a couple of years having the same conversation. I urge you all to carefully consider the impact these decisions have on the people of this county and look for solutions that provide relief rather than additional burden. Thank you. Thank you,

Madam Clerk. Keith Keith Reynolds.

Mr. Reynolds, good evening and welcome. My name is Keith Reynolds. I live in the Ken's Gretner district. I own about 175 acres up on a poultry house. I've worked my whole life to pay for that. And when I retire, what land I got up there, I can't rent it to pay the property taxes on. You can't rent that land for enough money to pay the taxes for me to live in Pennsylvania county. When you work your whole life and pay for something, you shouldn't have to pay one dime on property taxes. Not one dime is paid for. It's mine. But you don't never own nothing because you got to pay taxes on it or we'll come get it. It ain't right. I spoke the last time when y'all reassessed and raised the taxes and it didn't do any good. And I don't want y'all to think because these seats ain't full right here that the citizens of Pennsylvania County is in favor of tax increase. What they tell me, you wasting your time going down there talking. They're going to do it anyway. It's already done. Already done. But I'm coming down here and speak my mind. There's no reason for a tax increase. Tighten your belt. Tighten your belt.

That's all I've got to say. Thank you, sir. Chris Ferris. What's that name? Chris Ferris. Mr.

Ferris. Good evening. Welcome. Mr. Chairman, board uh board members, um Mr. Shorter, uh had some very detailed information in your presentation. Um just come uh full circle here. I am a member on the planning commission for the stand river district and I've been getting calls um we're going from 56 cent to 66 cent increase on property tax and I know you use an example I'm going to use one myself so if you have an average home of $140,000 that's an increase of $140 don't sound like much 140 bucks reality is a 17.86% increase. Now, I don't live in the town of Hurt and I know this body does not control what the town of Hurt does. But not only right here, this body is controlling taxes for county residents and the town of hurt residents, but the town of hurt residents also have the burden of paying for an example water from 2022 to the 202526 fiscal year. barrel rate for a,000 gallons of water is was went from $14 to over $1861. That's a 33% increase. Now, someone on limited income, that's big, but this increase is big.

Then you add the solid waste fee from $120 to $200. That's over 66% increase. Now I know the presentation had what the cost was Pennsylvania County citizens. My question is with the garbage that we're importing in from other localities, are we increasing their rates 66% as well? to offset the use of this equipment here in the county. I'm I'm just going to go back and say this. You got a hard job. You got a balanced budget. We got services we need to provide. I get that. I just don't see how an average household in Pennsylvania County right now can absorb an increase of 10 cent per 100 on real estate tax and a big increase going from $120 to $200 annually. Now, I'll I'll say this. I am prog growth. We need businesses. We need jobs. not for me but for our future for the kids graduating high school and hopefully we can get industry here and increase our tax base. Thank you for your time.

Thank you sir.

Who's our next speaker? Derek Davis. Mr. Davis. Good evening and welcome. Hi gentlemen. How you doing?

Name is Derek Davis. Dan River District on Countryside Court. I'm sure and people have plenty of people that have already spoken about the increase in property and real estate taxes, but I'm here to talk about the trash rate, solid waste fee. We're going to talk some numbers here. You let me know if I'm wrong, but this came a lot of this came directly off the county's website. At the current rate, 2024, there were approximately 25,020 households in Pennsylvania County. I hear now that's closer to 29. That was 2024. At the current rate, that equates to 3 million, a little over two $3 million. Now, the county receives per year website between 1.8 and two.5 million from other localities to allow them to bring their trash into this county. It's like the gentleman just spoke. Are we raising their fees to bring their trash into our county? If not, this tax rate is a joke. You can't tax us and not them. That's that's crazy. All right. So, we're at $5 million there, give or take, of revenue generated from these two sources. Per the information acquired from the county website, the operating cost for solid waste for fiscal year 2627 is around 3.5 million. That's per y'all. That's from the Pennsylvania County website. So by my math, that leaves in excess of 1.5 million. So if you add the $80 per year per household, that generates another $2 million for the county. So we're already at a surplus of funds minus bulldozers and and all this other stuff you want to buy. So, I'm right now I'm still waiting to get my $120 a year worth out of it. Every time I go to my dumpster site,

it's full. It's blocked off. I can't use it. So, and it's option number two. Mr. Sharter talked about we can't get much worse than what it is now. That's a joke. We need service. Excuse me. We need the service that we're paying for now before you try to raise rates on us. I didn't have I didn't have time to to for you the other information I wanted, which is I want to know how much gener money revenue is generated from these cameras you got putting up there sending people $50 tickets for dropping a gum wrapper on the ground. Anybody know? I'd like to find out and I I intend to for you that and find out. And if any of you doubt my word on the site, I've got pictures on my phone. I'll be more than happy to meet with any of you after this meeting and show them to you. Between April the 2nd when I heard about this meeting and today, our site has been 75% unusable. I've made several trips up there. Every time it's blocked off and you it's unusable. So, who do I send my bill to for my wasted time and my fuel? Diesel ain't cheap. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Who's our next speaker?

Curtis Arthur. Mr. Arthur.

Good evening. Welcome. Good. My name is Curtis Art Stands. I'm up here tonight because I had a lot of my rentals. I own right property and the tax is going up when the wage fee and some of them think I'm going to make a move out. And it's a good thing because I'm paying I'm paying $4,300 a year for the waste fee. If it goes up $2 a 100, it's going to cost me $7200. And uh somebody somebody got to pay the bills somewhere and I always pay my bills on time and I'm trying I'm going to be for the citizen that rent for me asked me to speak for them and I I appreciate everything put on hold because he's sitting citizens just on a fixed income. And some of them I don't know how to survive, but they bring in show me their checks. And and I think some of them doing a good job. And I tell one thing I need we need to do is get a another supervisor in our position here in Stanton River District to help us guide this thing through. We have fight our own way through. And I don't know what the hold up is, but I appreciate y'all do something about it. And I hope you hold off on raising the taxes. That's all I got to say. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Der. Who's our next speaker? Steve Matlery. Mery. Good evening and welcome.

Mr. Chairman, yes, sir.

Members of the board, my name is Steve Mley and I reside in the Chattam Blair's district. I have spoken to you on several occasions, usually when it involves raising taxes or raising fees in the county. such as my topic this evening. In many respects, we are a rich county. We have an outstanding educational system, a diverse economy of agriculture and manufacturing, natural beauty, residents who value the diversity and community, and a long history dating back to 1767. However, in other respects, we are a poor county. 13.5% of our residents live at or below the poverty level. 26% of our residents are over 65, which I equate to having a fixed income. And the median income for a family in this county is $54,000 annually. Almost across the board, our tax rate are the highest of all surrounding counties. Real estate is 56 cents per 100. A personal property rate only a mathematician can figure out how to compute. A p a electric utility tax, a school tax, a meal tax, a transit occupancy tax, the largest vehicle license fee allowed by state law, and a trash fee. Two years ago, after the reassessment that increased the average property value by 48% documented by multiple sources, there was a revenue mutual rate of 45 cent per 100 of assessed value. However, you voted for a tax rate of 56 cents per 100 of assessed value, a 24% increase from the revenue neutral amount. This was supposed to provide several million dollars beyond budget requirements to

fund critical needs in public safety, fire and rescue, schools, and address inflationary cost. Now, here we are two years later, and you propose a 18% increase in real estate tax from 0.56 per 100 to 0.66 66 per 100 of assessed value and a 67% increase in the trash fee from $120 annual to $200 annually. These are increases residents of this county simply cannot afford. And if certain bills currently on the governor's desk or signed into law, more taxes will roll downhill from Richmond, which may require another tax increase in the county next year. Back in 1779 through 17681 when we had a real governor who was Thomas Jefferson, he had a quote about taxes. Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mader. Who's your next speaker?

Kathy Hodgeges. Miss Hodes. Good evening and welcome. Good evening.

Good evening. My name is Kathy Hodes and I reside in the Stanton River District. Um the proposed tax increase from 56 to 66 cents per 100 is really just unrealistic. I've never heard I worked in Franklin County for 19 years and no, they never proposed any sort of a raise in taxes like that. The most I ever remember them proposing was 3 cents. Um I think it's time I've even thought about moving to Campbell County. Their rate is 45 cents per 100. Bedford County 41 cents per 100. And they provide a tax exemption for the elderly, disabled, and disabled veterans. Franklin County is 43 cents per 100. Halifax County 50 50 cents per 100. Floyd County is 44 cents per 100. I have four daughters and I'd never encouraged them to move back here because of the way the taxes have increased over the last several years. Um the waste fee going from $120 to $200 to me is just completely unrealistic. When Smitherman was here, he decided he wanted the trash to come in from other localities. How much revenue do we get from that? And why would we? Because then we fill up the sales in our landfill and have to turn around and build more. And I know a few years ago they were $5 million to put in a new sale in the landfill. I think we need to go back to the day where people get burn barrels and that'll solve the waste issue. take your waste and put it in a burn barrel laid back. Then you don't have to worry about the contractors who have to empty the dumpsters. You know, you don't have to worry about dumpsters running over. You put it in your burn bow and get rid of it. Um the number of title one schools in this

county um is huge. I couldn't find out the exact number before I came, but it's based on household size and income. and we have a poverty level county. We've got to remember that everybody doesn't make 200,000 and up a year. And also 24.5 to 26% of the population is 65 and older. I'm in that category now and I'm a baby boomer and I came out. But there are more baby boomers who are going to retire in the next 3 to 5 years. And we're making it increasingly harder for them to continue to live in this county. I've lived in this county all my life and I don't want to leave. But when I look at these taxes, it makes me think I might have to consider that increasing tax rates excessively will send potential businesses to surrounding localities. How can we cut this budget? Look at exorbitant salaries. County Administrator 220,000. The formal one was 190,000. County Attorney 22,000. Assistant County Administrator 145,000. Sheriff 190,000. Superintendent of schools 185,000. Plus, uh, they pay for his insurance for his entire family. County and school vehicles should not be checked out should be checked out as needed and not driven to personal homes at night. Reassessment is coming in June. What on earth will our taxes be then? They assessed my home and never set foot on the property because I contested it and I said, "What day did you come to my property?" They said, "Oh, we never came to your property." I said, "Well, how did you increase the value of it then if you never even laid eyes on it? How much grant money is applied for these capital projects? Are we applying for grants to help offset some of these costs?" The board of supervisors, we need you to

please listen carefully. You were elected to represent your constituents, not to consider only your personal opinion. We are a rural county with meager incomes. Let's let's wrap it up. Okay. We are a rural county with meager incomes and should not be paying such high taxes. It's not right that you can vote yourselves a raise either. This should be put to a popular vote in scheduled elections. And as the last point, thank you for listening to me, but also I would like to address this to the audience. If you are opposed to these tax and waste increases, please stand. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Who's our next speaker? Jim Scarce. Mr. Scarce, good evening. Welcome.

I'm back.

Good evening. My name is Jim Scarce and I live in the WTover district. Tonight, I'm here to tell those citizens of this county that I told you so. I told you that if you listened to the tonsil supervisor and his cronies and the fire and rescue leadership and voted out the fiscal conservatives on this board that they were going to raise your taxes. Although the Tontol district supervisors yesmen all lied and they said they were against raising taxes. The first thing they did was give us a historic property increase. The second thing they did was uh reward the leadership of the fire and rescue with helping them take over the board with an additional $2 million above what had already been budgeted for them. Another lie being pushed by this uh board is that they didn't raise our taxes, they lowered the tax rate. It's true they did lower the our tax rate, but with the monumental increase in our property values in the new property assessment, for that value to be tax neutral, it would have to be lowered to 45 cents on $100 of property value. The rate they gave us at 56 cents resulted in a historic property tax increase. The next lie that some on this board have voiced is that they need to bring more business to the county to increase the tax revenues and relieve the tax burden of the citizens. The problem here is that every business this board has brought in has been given huge tax breaks along with other incentives. Now, one example is Microor, which has been given a 12-year tax-free deal. I ask, how is this going to help the tax burden on the city uh county citizens? You might also ask how they're uh able to afford these tax breaks and other incentives to these businesses. This brings to me uh brings me to the proposed t uh tax rate increase in this year's proposed budget. As far as the tax rate increase is concerned, the board has already voted to approve our increase up to 66 cents on $100 of

property value. This, I might add, with an over $64 million surplus in the reserve fund. This rate increase, they say, will fund the $7 million increase in the proposed budget. Of that proposed increase, the biggest recipient is economic development with a 22% increase. So, this board plans to increase your taxes so they can use your tax dollars to entice businesses to this area with tax breaks and other incentives. The second biggest uh recipient of the budget increase is the uh favorite special interest group of some on this board, the fire and rescue at 20% who is still reaping it dividends for helping remove the fiscal conservatives from this board. We currently have politicians in Richmond who are trying to turn Virginia into California East. Well, it seems we have our own local politicians that are trying to do the same thing. You may feel there's nothing as citizens we can do to stop these supervisors and their out of control taxing and spending, but there is. We can start a recall petition for every one of these supervisors who votes to raise our taxes again in a short two-year period. If need be, I will pledge to start a petition in the WTO district if our concerns fall on deaf ears. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Madam clerk, who's our next speaker? Ashley Cox. Miss Cox, good evening and welcome.

I apologize. I'm a little short. My name is Ashley Cox. I reside at 15908 Mount Crossroad. And looking around, I think I'm the youngest person here. And I think y'all need to look and see what that says for your county and the future of the taxes coming in this county. I'm many things. I'm a wife. I'm a mother. I'm a steparent raising four children that attend your public schools. I'm a medic at Halifax County Public Safety. At station 9 with first due territory in the northern end of this county. But most importantly today, I'm a proud homeowner at only 38 years old, who has almost paid off my mortgage at 38 years old, but that is due to working two jobs averaging at over a 100 hours a week. I have had enough of the extortion that you define as taxation because that's what it is. If you look up the definition of extortion, that is what you are doing. I've come to realize complacency is the enemy of progress. I feel the citizens as well as myself have become part of the problem by remaining silent and not holding local, state, and federal officials accountable for their mismanagement of taxpayer dollars. You want to build a new courthouse, but it's not in your budget. Your answer is to increase the tax burden on the homeowners that voted you into those very seats.

Sorry, I lost my spot. Homeowners who are struggling, working multiple jobs, survive in this volatile economy. Homeowners that are paying outrageous energy bills, grocery bills, medical bills, child care bills, insurance premiums, fuel prices, overinflated real estate prices with high interest rates and longer mort mortgage terms. Court ordered or not, it is an insult to the property owners of this county for you to put your mismanagement on our shoulders when we are struggling every day to stay afloat. to add more injury to insult your plan on raising the solid waste fee to $200. And I think we all know how that's going. I implore you to search different and more effective options to raise your funds. Traffic cameras and school zones are very profitable revenue for these counties and it has been proven so. Carl Higgins gave the best explanation of why all the citizens are starting to be pissed off at public officials. We are taxed on money when we receive it, when we spend it, when we keep it, when we invest it, and even when we die with it. It gets worse. We commute to work to make money and a car that is taxed again to be registered on roads we already t are taxed to build, fueled by gas that is taxed even further. He goes on to say, "Then you go to a home of which you were taxed on every single year that we bought with money that the government already taxed." I know you won't remember me, but I hope you remember my words. Words from a public servant who steps into some of the most impoverished and underserved homes in our county and your neighboring county.

Ma'am, let's wrap it up. Yes, sir. Okay. I step in. The majority of your homeowners in this county, a vast number, are over 65. Elderly citizens that are struggling to choose between medication, electricity, food from month to month. Elderly citizens that have personally I have personally witnessed admit to eating cat food to make it through. Step a foot into your citizen's shoes. This is our county. These are our properties. and you worked for us. I am a mom of four. The time's up.

Who wants them to have a future in this county? Thank you. M clerk, who's our next speaker? Carrie Perkins Snider. Snider. Good evening and welcome.

Good evening. My name is Carrie Schneider. Pretty much everything I was going to say has already been said pretty much by everyone that stepped up here. The only thing that has not really been mentioned, I live in I'm in the Calins Grreta district. I'm also in the town of Greta. My property is in the town of Gretna. A gentleman mentioned something about the hurt water bill. Well, when you live in town, not only are you paying your water bill or your septic bill, you're also paying another tax. We pay two taxes. We pay Pennsylvania county tax and the town tax, which Mr. Shorty did not put that up on his his presentation about the town taxes. Um, I have been there for 37 years and I have watched taxes go up and up and up. Um, as I said several years ago, we'll reassess um taxes. The I already pay for a waste fee. I have to pay when they come around and pick up our our trash. I also have to pay Pennsylvania their solid waste fee. We're taxed twice. That's my biggest gripe. We're taxed twice, not just once. Um, it's ridiculous. And when Pennsylvania county goes up, our town taxes go up. It's just ridiculous. It really is. I'm like Kathy. Everybody needs to just buy a barrel for Christ's sakes. Start burning your trash. Start recycling. Maybe that would cut down on some of this fees for the solid waste because you won't have as much. Um, it just I'm just tired of all the taxes. I am part of that retired community. He made a statement in his presentation about people moving out of Pennsylvania County

and he's trying to bring people in. Well, let me be the first to tell you. When they look at the tax rate, when they look at this rate, they look at that rate, they look at the how often you increase it, they're not going to come here. Why would anybody come here, that's that's a glutton for punishment. I'm like Kathy, also kind of looking at other counties to move out of it. It's just nobody's going to come here if you keep taxing them to death, whether it be a business or an individual. That's it.

Thank you, man. Thank you. Let's take a five minute recess and we will be right back.

Thank you. One minute warning. Let's come to order. Madame clerk, who's our next speaker? Vanessa Scarce.

Miss Scarce, good evening and welcome. Good evening. My name is Vanessa Scarce and I live in the WTover district and I'm speaking tonight as a citizen of this county, not as an elected official. It has become very difficult though to separate the fact that I'm the treasurer from the work that we are facing. We can do hard you guys. That's what we're here for. We can do this together. We have already learned what communication can do. Communication being open lines of communication. Talking to each other. Not just sitting listening. Not just coming before a body and talking to us as citizens, but open lines of communication where we talk to one another. Q&A style town meetings. Go out, get to know the citizens. I'm so pleased tonight to see many people that I've never seen come out before. That's what it takes. That's what we need to do. We need to accomplish what we can together by better communication. You've already heard most of the citizens have already prepared their budgets for 2026 and just are not prepared for these increases. You've heard the stories that I get to hear every day when they come and pay their taxes. We don't want to mess up a 98% tax collection rate, do we? I'm ready to do hard, though, because I

know that's what we do. And I think that you all can go back and work on a budget and make it balance with the increases that we've gotten. You know, we got 10.5 million extra with the last assessment and I'm guessing we get that again this year, but that's what the difference was, you know, for that year to last year. And that didn't include our other income of grants, other local taxes and the solid waste tax or investment earnings. You know, um I say we can do this with a minimal increase or no increase. I don't want a hasty decision made. I think you've heard that from the citizens, too. They'd rather you go back, review, talk to these departments. By the way, kudos to those departments who submitted budgets for 2027 with no increase. I think they deserve a round of applause. I urge you to put this decision on halt. I urge you don't cut off the hand that literally feeds the budget of this county. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Who's our next speaker? Joanne Roach. Miss Roach. Good evening and welcome.

Good evening. I'm Joan Roach from Greta District. I'm here on behalf of my family and my community because some of them cannot be here tonight and some of us didn't even know we had a meeting till someone shared it on Facebook. So, I appreciate you all sharing it. Um, I'm on a fixed income and I cannot retire. I actually work three jobs to try to make it. I have two disabled brothers that I have to help take care of besides myself. I'm not the only person here at their shop. I see this little gentleman right here. I'm sure they have a hard time taking care of him also because we do in trying to find financials and you cannot go to the dollar store and buy the diapers and the catheterss and all these things that you need cuz I got a granddaughter that's got spinobipia. I've helped bury three of my family members. that wasn't fixed in my budget, but the Copen brand funeral home fixed it so that I can pay it. And I'm sure there's other people out here that has family members that's passed away and they need help also. And I've also been told that if I need help, they would help me with my taxes, but I think I understand if then when I die that they take the land and get their tax money back. But I feel that if you all can do without that tax money while I'm living, then you could do without that tax money when I'm gone. And if you can do without it now, then you actually could do without it. But I have a daughter that has five children. She does not live on welfare and she takes her husband works every day at Amway International. I also have a niece that owns Fancy Frogs. She's struggling because of the taxes. People do not want to come and eat because you got to pay three taxes to eat. A $5.99 sandwich cost you $10 by the time you get out and then you pay somebody a waitress that they deserve something for helping. But I think with our community, I don't know how you all budget. I only know that I've raised nine kids. I took care of a disabled husband for 16 years and I've took care

of my brothers and helped my family. And if I can do that on the $24,000, the most money I've made in a year. I've got a car that's got 197,000 miles on it and I don't see it in no budget to get another one. Bicycle probably now with the price of gases. But either way, I would really appreciate if you all would take the time to think about the citizens of Pennsylvania County. You all have an income. I don't know what it is. I don't know how you live, but I live the best I can and I help anybody that I can. And I have seen some of these elderly people. I do go help and I do not charge them an arm and a leg to help them because I see the struggle. They're on a fixed income on dialysis or taking pills that they can't afford. So please and thank you.

Thank you ma'am. Madam clerk, who's our next speaker? Josh Austin.

Mr. Austin, good evening and welcome. said, "My name is Josh Austin. I'm on Sugar Tree Church Road in the Tons District." Um, first off, I'd like to tell y'all thank you for scheduling this meeting on the Easter break because I'm sure there would probably be more people here if it wasn't. Um, as far as the increase in the trash rate, why don't we do away with the current program and let people be responsible for their own trash disposal? Sure, first Petemont would appreciate the extra business. As for the tax increases, the county is not the only one that is feeling the effects of the increases in the economy. We the people are, as I'm sure your personal households are as well. But we can't go to our employers and tell them we are raising our income regardless of whether they like it or not. You ask your employer for an increase and when they say no, find it somewhere else or you cut your spending. You can start by cutting those increases that you just gave yourself. It's about time the employees started listening to the employer. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Who's our next speaker? That's all. Mr. Chair, that's it. Um, Mr. Sharter, would you come back and share the uh the programs in place for tax relief, please?

Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, um I've heard a lot of comments this evening about uh elderly and people on fixed income. Um it needs to be let made known here and I regret not having it part of my presentation that the county does have an elderly and disabled tax relief program. That program is administered by the commissioner of the revenue. So, I encourage everyone that has those concerns to reach out to the commissioner revenue to apply for that relief program for the elderly and disabled. I also heard about the garbage of of allowing First Petemont or some other private collector handle their own garbage. That's also allowed. You can provide that information if you have private garbage collection. you can provide that information to the commissioner revenue and be exempt from the salt waste fee. Those two things I wanted to share with the board. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Shorter. It is now 8:42 and we close the public hearing. All right, discussion from the board. Mr. Chairman, I had uh several comments I wanted to make if you'll uh bear with me. Um and one of them was directed Mr. Short. I couldn't get you to come back up, please. There is a constitutional officer that has a brother that's constantly talking about our unreserved fund balance. Do you know what it is today right off top of your head? I do not know it off the top of my head, but the last time I checked it was around the $17 million mark.

Okay. But we're mandated by law to have a unreserved fund balance just in case. Correct. We do have a financial policy in place that requires that to maintain our bond and credit ratings for being able to borrow funds. And you just can't go and start pulling money from it from it when you want. Correct. Uh you you can but with not without consequence. The consequence is if you're going to you're going to get negative ratings from the from the bond rating agencies. Okay. So, it's very much advisable not to touch it. That's absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That that's my question. Thank you, sir. Um, that's all I have. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I think we'll all agree that we hate to pay taxes. We all pay taxes. There was some propaganda a couple of years ago that the board didn't pay taxes, and that's exactly what it was. It was lying propaganda. We pay taxes just like you guys do. and we hate to pay taxes just like you do. But um when we look at our budget and we have to make the decision to cast a vote, you have to look at who you're going to hurt. And I'm not going to do anything to hurt our schools, our children, our fine rescue, or our law enforcement. It's very easy to say, "I don't want to pay taxes. I want you to cut my taxes." But in doing that, you have to compromise. and I'm leading up to a compromise. But it's our duty. It's our civic duties as Americans to pay taxes. We know about the Boston Tea Party. It was a great example of taxation without representation. But you have representation. That's why you're here and that's why here we're here. And a lot of people get confused over federal, state, and local taxes. Your federal taxes pay for our military, the government offices. Um the state taxes once again what happens in Richmond uh state resources, state police for instance and then that comes down to local taxes what we have to have to survive to provide for our neighbors. And this is a neighborly concept because we pay taxes. We're paying taxes to make sure that we have services that take care of each and every one of us. So, it is our duty to pay taxes. And one thing that you need to be aware of, and I'm I like history, but sometimes I don't want to go back so far. But you have to incorporate the fact that most politicians don't want to

raise your taxes because they don't want to hear people fuss. And I get it. But you also have to remember that we needed years ago to incrementally increase taxes a very small amount to cover cover inflation and cost of living. That's that's how you survive. You cannot survive today off of a budget you had 10 years ago. And so when I look at the tax rate since this is my seventh year on the board and I've never voted for a tax increase, people confuse that horrible reassessment with a tax increase. And I'm a Tontol High School graduate. I was taught if you came down from 62 cent to 56, that's a decrease. It's a decrease in taxes. But you look at prior boards, they're the ones that gave you the $3.2 million pet center sitting on a $600,000 piece of land with a annual budget close to a million dollars. It wasn't us, but we have to fund it. You look at that prior board that said no to millions and millions of free money from the city of Danville through that casino. Free money. And some self-righteous, hypocritical people said, "Oh, we don't want that dirty money." Listen, every penn in your pocket is dirty. It's what you do with it that makes it good money. And I think about how we could benefit. We wouldn't be having this conversation had some self-righteous prior board members, some are not here today, had not said no to the city of Danville. So, you go back and you look at from 2010 to 2011, the rate was 52 cent. From 2012 to 20 uh 13, it went up 4 cents to 56 cent. It went up from 2014 to 2018 to 59 cent. 2018 to 23 62 cent. That was an increase before I came on the board. And then 24 to 25, we dropped it back down to 56. And we're still at 56. And the

proposal on the board was to take it up to 66 with a $200 trash uh tax. So having said that, I'm going to once again go to batfire. Priceless men and women, the volunteers of this county. What would we do without them? And when I hear anybody speak in a derogatory sense against volunteers that spend their time, their money away from their families and jobs to serve us. And if you say anything bad about a volunteer, shame on you. It'll catch up to you someday. You might need to call them. So, I just wanted to say that our volunteers are absolutely priceless. And don't ever forget that. And so much of this budget has to do with making sure that we have adequate fire rescue and law enforcement protection. So when people fuss at me about the proposed tax increase, I come back to them. I said, "Look at the top five departments and what they're asking for." So what do you want us to cut? You want us to cut our children by way of the school system and our school teachers. You want us to cut our volunteers. You want to take the money away from public safety. you want to take money away from law enforcement, you tell me what you want me to cut. And you know, I haven't had the first person that said, "Well, number one, I've read your budget, and number two, I don't really want to cut any of them." So, you can see where we at, what predicament we're in. So, having said that, I'd like to make a motion, if I may. Now, Mr. Chairman,

I would be comfortable going back up to the 62 cent rate and a $12 increase, which would be $1 per month on the track trash tax fee. Um, that'd be my motion. And I don't make it with any great joy, but I I've looked at the numbers and we've got to do something and I'm still very hopeful in the near future that we'll have additional revenue to offset what we need. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may, on the agenda, we've got the approval of the tax rate and then the solid waste fee as separate items. I'm going to go ahead and move to the tax rate if that's okay with you.

We're we're at the point of discussion on the actual tax rate. Okay. Not the solid waste fee. Right. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. If you don't mind, I've got some comments too I want to make. Yes, sir. Right on.

Go ahead, M. Mr. Ingrams. Uh, so thank you all first coming out tonight and letting us hear about your positions and where you are. That does not fall on deaf ears, believe me. Uh, as of last week and I have been a party to each one of these budget meetings. I've sat with staff in every one of these and we have we have scrubbed these books, these numbers. We've looked at them. I'm going to give you just and and give me a couple of minutes here to go through this, but we just cut and this has to do with what Mr. Ingram just said here. Volunteer fire and rescue. We just proposed a cut of $942,000 in this upcoming bud budget. And here's what they are. And I'll just I'll read a couple of them or more than a couple. 157,000 was cut from new fire service maintenance contracts that have not been previously budgeted. 20,000 was cut for special operations team training since there is currently no special operations team. 30,000 was added back to their training line item for any department that may need special training. 48,000 was cut from the original increase of 96,000 to the base funding for fire rescue departments. 40,000 was cut from the fire response request. The original request raised the fire per call from $20 per call to $30 per call. No new increase was funded. 75,000 was cut from the fire apparatus contribution request. The original request was to increase each contribution by 75,000 for a total of 150,000. The other 75,000 would be funded in the 2028 budget. 50,000 was cut from the ambulance apparatus contribution request. The original request was to increase each each contribution by 50,000 for a total of $100,000.

The other 50,000 will be funded in the 2028 budget. 500,000 was cut from the latter apparatus contribution request. This was a new request that had not been removed. These totals came up to $942,000. So, we've worked these numbers, I mean, every which way we can to make sure that we're covering down with everything that the public needs. Uh, some of the community contributions, five, 58,150 was cut from community contribution request. 75,000 was cut from the town of Chadam's request for contribution toward a ladder truck. A 100,000 was cut from the town of Chadam's request for contribution toward a fitness park for a total of 233,000. So folks, we're not just arbitrarily setting up here just adding these things to the budget to make us look good. We are actually working these budget line items. The vehicle request, $50,000 van for the library. We cut that. Okay. So there's been a lot of cuts taken place on these requests that have come in. Not that they're just they're not justified, but they are justified. It's just a matter of they're not needed right now. Okay? Somewhere down the road, we may have to fund these things, but right now we're not going to be able to fund those, and we've taken that into consideration. So, with that being said, Mr. Chairman, I just I'll yield back to you.

Thank you, Mr. Bowman. Before um I ask for other comments, let me let me make a couple comments. Um because I am the chair of the finance committee, uh the last thing we want to do is be free and easy with the taxpayers's money. Okay. Uh the first thing we need to address is the fact that uh we don't have a choice. We have to keep the government open. We are not like um the federal government. We can't just go into recess, walk away, that sort of thing. Close up a shop. You know, our schools have to stay open. Fire and rescue has to run. Our sheriff's department has to be there to provide the safety for the welfare of the public. Uh so we really don't have a choice. Right now, we are looking at basically uh paying the bills to be able to balance the budget. Okay. Uh and then in paying the bills, we have unfunded mandates. You know, Mr. Shorter gave a great presentation. Thank you, sir. Uh with the courthouse and you know, the dam those things, we don't have a choice. We we have to step up and do that whether we want to or not. And I and listen, I like you and nobody wants to spend money on a jail. No one wants to spend money on a courthouse, but that's just a part of our our our our community. So, we have to have the money for the courthouse. Um 62 cents that uh Mr. Ingram is proposing

cuts $2 million out of the budget. And I, you know, I'll be real transparent and I I leaned over and I said, "Okay, where you going to get the $2 million from to balance this budget? We have a mandate from the state. We have to present a balanced budget. You cannot take the money." And I've heard people talk about the general fund. Okay? It goes against general accounting practices. There is not 40 plus million dollars of money parked anywhere. Uh, I think that balance in in the general fund is about $17 million, which it has to stay within a certain tolerance or range based on the amount of debt that you're carrying as a community. Okay? So, listen, it's painful for everybody. I understand. I empathize, but I'm going to make a substitute motion that we stayed at the 66 cents per 100. That's my motion. and I'm looking for support.

Mr. Chairman, I'll second it. Thank you, Mr. Bowman. Any discussion? Any discussion? Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Mr. D. Let the people clear out here a little bit. Um, I want to thank everybody for coming out. or I'm surprised really and honest ain't more people here cuz I have I probably had enough phone calls to fill up the room by itself. But either way, um I hear the people I hear I hear the people and I understand exactly

how they feel some of these. Mr. Yes, Mr. Dudley. Yeah. Mr. Dudley, would you mute please? Yep, ma'am. Yep. He's cutting me out. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. But yes, I pay taxes, too. I pay a whole lot. I'm a

No, that's right. I'm going to get to that, too. I mean, people, listen, I think a lot of this board have all the respect in the world for them. We agree and we disagree. We got good staff and I got all the respect in the world for them. But I cannot set up here and support a tax increase like that.

I'm not being fair to my constituents in the Ken's Gretner district. Not only that, not only that, I'm talking about Pennsylvania County, the whole Pennsylvania county. Listen, the city of Dam was doing well and I'm happy for them. You know, Richmond, they got their problems. They may be doing fine, but nobody in my district says they want to move to Damble or they want to move to Richmond, anywhere else. They want to stay in Pennsylvania County. They want to stay here. But again, I heard tonight and I agree with that. We're going to soon tax oursel out of business because ain't nobody wants to come. I know you got to pay the bills. Listen, I come from nothing and I'm more than blessed now beyond all means. But sometimes you got to live within your means. And I've said it before. The last tax increase, we pretty much raped our citizens. I mean, this is just straightforward. We That's what we done. Huge increase in property taxes. We're getting ready to have another one. I know that. And I mean, you can talk all kind of numbers you want to. I'm being affiliated with Pennsylvania County for over 36 years. I know how it operates on the inside and I'm starting to learn a lot on the outside and it's been a learning experience. But I'm a cow calf operator and I got a pretty good size operation. But if I don't know how to operate my cow herd and I run out of hay, I can't go to my neighbor and steal it out of

his barn to pay,

I got to know how to feed my cattle to make sure they grow on my budget. I can't go take it from my neighbors. That's called good management. So, I know we got things to do. We've got to pay our bills. We've got to provide service. But you you talk about service, and I want you to talk about my district. How much service better are we now than we were four years ago when I come on the board. It's not a whole lot of better service. I mean, we pay any bills. I support school. I support public safety. a fire rescue or sheriff's department. Listen, if a house is on fire, you want the truck to be there. If somebody's shooting at you, you want somebody from the sheriff's office. I get all of that. I know that. But you got Listen, and I'm just the old country plow boy right here. But we've got a bigger spending problem than we do a revenue problem. We've got to learn to manage our operations and do better. It's a lot of things. It's a lot of things that we can do and I know we can't do it tonight, but we have opportunity moving forward. And these numbers, I mean, I know again you're talking about we got to support our schools. I do support that. But, you know, even talking about the schools, I had a conversation with a lady here just a few weeks ago. It's a lot of homeschooled students, kids now, that don't even go to a public school. It's a whole lot in a private school. So, that sort of tells you something. You know, how well are we doing on our

public side? Maybe we need to do better. I come up in public schools. My children did. both of them. They turned out really well and I'm proud of them. But gentlemen, we got to learn how to fix some of the problems. And I haven't had and we got some smart people on our staff. These gentlemen here are smart. They're smarter than I am. But we need some solutions on the problems other than just adding money to the problem. Cuz all you doing is making that problem bigger. You ain't solving it. You need to work on solving it. And then if you need some more money, just do it. But we ain't figured a good a good way to provide service and keep our tax rate down and take care of our citizens. I've got some comments about the waste, solid waste, but I ain't going to talk about it now because we working on the budget on the tax increase. But I'm telling you, I'm not here to support that increase because we don't need that much.

Thank you. But thank you. Thank you, Mr. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Dalton. Um, let me let me say uh I take exception uh to your uh characterization of our previous tax increase. Um Mr. Dalton, with all due respect, I don't believe that we, you know, your terminology that language is pretty strong. Uh and then two and then and then two, can we can we have order? We we actually are having dialogue up here. And then too, Mr. Dalton, you know, uh I I understand what you're saying wholeheartedly. I respect that, but at the same time, I've asked for solutions from you when I asked you to submit where we could cut from and I have not received anything after working tirelessly on this budget for the last three four months. Okay. So, I I just wanted to get that out there. Any other comments from the board?

Yeah, Brown.

Yeah, coming from the Dan Riverside, I mean, um this has been a learning experience for me and and definitely a challenging deal. Um Mr. Short has done a a pretty good a great job with with um putting together these packets with his help. And this is um this is a hard night and it's a stressful night. and and I don't want to, you know, I'm not 466 cent. Um, you know, and I agree with a lot of what all these guys are saying. I mean, we are in a in a in a situation where the the county wants to grow a lot and we've got a ton of things that we've got to come up with the money to do. And then we've got a ton of things that in my opinion we're getting ready to head to solid waste because that's the number one topic of the night amongst you guys as citizens and in my opinion is the biggest problem that we're looking at financially wise when you look at the millions of dollars that just in that one department of you know county funds that is an issue. Um some of this stuff you know we can't help and and the price of fuel and the fleet of buses and to cover the amount of ground that this county is so vast. It's the largest. you already know this. I'm I'm just beating a dead horse. You already heard how big it is and and you know it. You live in it. You drive through it. You know how much you're spending to do everything you're doing. And and then here in the 11th hour, you know, my uh district that I represent, you know, I get a phone call that that really cost us I don't know that it'll be 1.1 million, but it it's going to be significant. But the 11,000 people on that side of that eastern side of the county deserve the same public safety that you get no matter what end of your county you live on when you in having chest pains and laying in the middle of the floor and and that's a lot of industries on 58 East that my folks have to respond to. They've got to be there for these factories and it's you got thousands of people that work on the eastern side. So, you know, I don't I don't know where to land on this. This

is a such a tough uh deal that we and and the gentleman earlier said you got to tighten your belt. Well, you're right. And and and uh I ate too much for lunch cuz it's it's tight. But you know, how do we solve this? I don't know. I kind of agree with uh Mr. Ingram. I think somewhere we got to meet in the middle. 56 cent where it is now, we know is is not going to cover it. And we can't lay off, you know, tons of people. We I don't want to cut that type of make that type of cut, but we we've got to I think 66 cent is a uh extremely high one. I can name off many things that and we've and we're getting ready to get to the main one um that we've got to do something about and that's at landfill. So that's that's my that's my two cents that isn't worth 1.2 million in this budget.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Any additional comments? All right. Any further discussion? There's a motion and second on the floor for the 66 cents. Cast your votes electronically.

Would now be the proper time to make a counter motion? No, we have we're in process of voting. Mr. Dudley. No.

All right. The motion fails. All right.

All right. I will entertain an additional motion. Mr. Chairman, I uh go back to my earlier comments and um I would be somewhat comfortable taking it back to where we were two years ago at 62 cent. So, putting it back where it was. That's my motion. I'll second that motion. All right. Is there any discussion on motion? Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

If you will, and I appreciate that, uh, Mr. Ingram, I really do. I think it's I think it's a good proposal, but I think we'll also be back here in 12 months doing the same thing. And I'm not up for doing that again, going back through this and and continually having to listen to the public out here. And and we've heard them. We know exactly where they stand with this. I think they need a reprieve next year. um you know about about this budget process because I can't blame them. I'm I'm on a fixed income. All of us are pretty much sitting up here on this diet. So, we know exactly what you're going through. I do the math in my head real quick and I don't like paying that u that additional tax at all. I don't like paying taxes at all, but we're going to be right back here again in 12 months doing the same thing to try to cover the expenses that we've got factored in here right now. That's all I'm going to say about that. Uh, I don't know if this is the time to do a counter or not, but

you can't I would I would propose that we do maybe 64 65. Is that is that in the form of a motion? I Well, uh, is it is that you can make a substitute motion? All right, I'll make a substitute at 65 then. Is there a second? No second. Your motion dies for lack of second. Okay. All right. Any further discussion? All right. Cast your votes, gentlemen, electronically. That's on the 62 cents.

Excuse me. Is this going to go away and restarts or we vote on the same platform? This is going to be for Mr. Ingram's motion at 62 cent. This one here. Yes. Yes. Okay. And just to be clear, Mr. Ingram made that motion and it was seconded by Mr. Brown. Correct. Mr. Dudley. No.

All right. Motion passes 43. Thank you so much. We move now to the solid waste fee discussion. I got some things on the on the solid waste fee. I mean to me I've said it and and so far I know two or three different meetings that we've all been together in here in Chattam and and it's not it just doesn't add up to me. We are paying the 120 a year currently and that's a rate and I don't know where I heard some of the citizens say tonight and in and in my short term in politics. I you know and I wasn't in this in in this environment in 2018 but I've been paying it just like you have since 2018 I don't see uh why it would go away meaning but I don't see where it needs to jump to 200 either. That's a precoid number. You've got I get you got I mean I'm in the equipment business and the cost of what it costs me to operate is you know very much different than 2018 along with all of you no matter whether you're farming, logging, construction, whatever you do and the average citizen in Pennsylvania county is a common sensebased citizen and I and they and they are just good country southern people that understand things and you know to jump at $80 is is outrageous in my opinion. Um it maybe uh it should have been in place when they come up with that fee and we did all these compactor sites. 2018 versus 26 is a long a long span but we should have done some type of u a maintenance plan to where that that number could have gradually trickled a few dollars or we implement a few dollars a month or something but to where it's not such a significant um hit. Uh that's a kick in the teeth in

my opinion to to take on $80 in one year. Um, we all know what inflation looks like. We're not, you know, we're not blind to it. We have to live in it. And, uh, and it's just, it just boils down to just common sense. The landfield in itself is taking in, and I know most of you know why, is an enormous amount of trash from multiple areas around the Commonwealth. Certain people are in the business of utilities such as dam. And they and look what they do to our power bill. And they they were complaining about it this weekend, city council meeting. I watched it. Some of you did, too. And they're dealing with it. I mean, we're dealing with it cuz we're paying that land bill. But we're in the business of a landfill. That's what we're good at. Well, we're supposed to be now. We need to operate it like it's a business. It is a enterprise fund. And it is a enterprise. And it's not being operated like that. We're going to get We can't get punished $80 a smack. And we're letting tractor trailer loads come in from the surrounding areas that didn't bother to dig a hole in the ground. And and I've I've I've kept I've been I've been preaching this for three months to a dead ear, but we have got to Mr. Dalton and myself have have recently talked about a month ago like, you know what, let's put boots on the ground. Somebody's got to come up with an idea. The equipment is dilapitated. We're throwing money at it. It's it's um and I don't know what it's going to take really from the taxpayer funding base for us to fix it, you know, but it's an inherited problem now for for the way I see it, but uh we've got to we've got to mitigate it somehow.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Any other discussion? Yes, sir. Mr. D.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um there was an ex county administrator that has a hard time keeping a job and this is one of his brainchildren and once again we as a current board we're having to suffer through this but I remember when it was introduced as $60 and then politically it went away and came back at 120 and you know we're stuck with it and so we have to figure out a way to manage it without penalizing our citizens too awfully much. So that's why I had in mind what I said and I'll bring the back up in a second. But um it's just something we still have to continue to work on. That's for sure. Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. Bowman,

Mr. Chairman, thank you. And uh I want to go back to the slide that Mr. Sharter brought up and again we went through these budget numbers here and uh we tried to be unbiased about everything that we did. There's there's no leaning one way or the other on this and it's it's data. It's what it is. The landfell field capital improvement needs right now. Uh again, I'm I'm going to reiterate this. Phase three sale construction is $4.6 million. Closure of the previous sale, the current one here is 2.6 million. The storage tank is a million and the Java convenience site is $600,000. Required equipment replacement 836 compactor 1.6 6 million a D8 dozer 1.3 and a D5 dozer is 593 or 600,000 12.4 million I will take any suggestions recommendations on how we can reduce those cost right there we are control we are we are regulated by the feds is that right Mr. DEQ

DEQ. So, so we're regulated regardless of whether it's brought in here or not. We're still regul. It's a landfill that's in Pennsylvania County that we have to maintain. And so, we have to we have to make sure this is up to whatever the code, the DEQ says, and we have to do that. Help me and figure out how I come up with 12.4 million. Sir, sorry. This is not a debate between the two of us. This is not a debate between the two. This is rhetorical. It's a rhetorical. Okay. Excuse me, sir.

Sir, the public hearing has been closed. The p Let me say it again. The public hearing has been closed. Mr. Bowman, continue on.

Thank Mr. Chairman. So, exactly. It's rhetorical question here. uh we have emails, we have we have phone call numbers and everything else. You can help us solve these problems, but right now these are the face these are the problems facing us right now as a county that we have to deal with. And Mr. Scharter has been one to research this and come up with these numbers whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. This is what we have to make our decisions on. So we can reduce this from $200 to 150 or we could leave it at 120. Is it going to take care of these problems that we have here? And that's the question that I've got. No, I don't have a question for you all to answer right now, but that's the question I have is can we pay the bills and keep this thing operating like it should be.

Thank you, Mr. T. Thank Thank you, Mr. Bowman. Um, any of Mr. Dolman? Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, thank you, sir. Yes, sir.

Yes. I was just listening to the comments and I do agree with some of the stuff Mr. Bowman said. We do have some some problems, but we have inherited that from somebody else. But here they are now. I mean, yes, we've got equipment that's wore out because we taking in everybody else's trash and wearing it out. And now we got to replace it. So, you know, when this thing started, I was working with the county and I remember it well. And I said then, I don't know if this is a good good idea or not, but eight or 10 years down the road, we might have to deal with it. Now, we are dealing with it. You know, it's a whole lot harder to straighten out some it is to mess it up. Cost a whole lot more, too. So, I'm not sure if we really doing anything taking in everybody else's trash. We got more employees. We wearing out the equipment. We filling up the hole a whole lot faster. But yeah, we we've got some major issues at the landfill and um we need to work on that. Um but I just don't think our citizens need to pay for the problems that somebody else caused. And that's kind of what we asked them to do to increase this solid waste fee to take care of the problems that somebody else created. We need to work again. We need to find a solution and work on this problem and quit throwing money at everything that's messed up. But I I'm not going to support any increase on that either. So, but

thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's all we got. Thank you, sir. Any further discussion? I got one more thing. Yes, sir.

And and it goes back to the public. You know, you guys are asking for us to be transparent. I think you and I think that's the way it should be. That's what I would I want as well. And and the one problem going to the landfield issues is it's not going to be uh a simplistic fix, meaning these contracts and to answer Mr. Bowman's question of how to fix it. Well, you you go up on the municipalities that's coming in here and and that way that causes us to have relief on our end of what we're paying in. I mean, at the end of the day, this equipment is astronomically priced, the labor, the fuel, and everything. But you can't. We've got these contracts signed, and that's what we talking about when we say we inherited. We've got these ridiculous contracts that have been signed previous to most of us sitting here on the board, if not all of us, through a different administrator. And now we've got to deal with these contracts until their termination date. You guys know what a contract is. And so, we've got to fight our way through this to handle the equipment that is, like I said, you you're milking them. Uh you just everything's wore out and then you can't. So it this is it's going to be a challenge when it comes to the landfill to moving forward.

Mr. Brown, thank you so much. Thank you. Um

let me say this. Uh an enterprise fund is supposed to be self-sufficient theoretically. That's the way it was initially set up. This is what they thought was going to happen, but that didn't happen. So even with uh each household now paying $120 uh annually for solid waste, all of us collectively are still paying uh from the general fund because now it's become an expense that we have to probably prop it up at the tune of 1.1 to$1.8 million annually. Okay. So, it doesn't matter where we set this trash rate. Collectively, we're all having to, as uh to borrow words from Mr. Brown, fight our way through this situation. And um and we're we're actually borrowing it out of the general fund to to do that to prop this up. It it should be run like a business, but it's it's not at this juncture. Okay. All right. Gentlemen,

Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

Uh one more thing, Mr. Short. very eloquently uh shared some moments with me uh above and beyond what we have that pretty much said that if we relied on the trash tax alone uh we'd go default. We couldn't pay the bills at all. And so in essence, it is the outside contracts that pay the bills. Um and I regretfully say that, but it's not enough to pay all the bills. I wish it was. Uh, but I made a pledge when I was running to try to do away with the trash tax and I soon found out that it you just couldn't do it. I didn't know any better, but you just couldn't do it. Uh, but it was 120 then, it's still 120 now. And you know, one thing we we fail to really uh emphasize is the cost of living in inflation. I mean, it just costs so much to live. And you know, we uh we understand that because we have to buy gas and bread and milk as well. But um I uh I I support a $12 increase, but that would be it.

All right. Any further discussion?

Do you want a motion? Yes, sir. All right. I'm going to stay with what we have here and we'll take it from there. So, I want to make a motion that we approve the solid waste household fee of $200 annually for tax year 2026. Um, that's my motion. Is there a second or does the motion die for lack of second? All right, Mr. Bowman, your motion's dead. Is there an additional motion? Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

I make a motion that we leave it set at the $120 rate like it is today. That's my motion.

I'll second it. All right. Move met with second to leave where it's at. Any discussion, Mr. Chairman? If you will, I'd just like to ask Mr. Dalton where we're going to pull the rest of that money from that we're going to have to repair this equipment with to open the new cell. U where is that coming from? We going to have to work on it. Well, this is the time to work on it. No, not tonight, but we going to Well, it may not be tonight, but we should have been working on this last year.

That's right. Like I said, we inherited this problem. We can't fix it overnight, but we can work on it. Unfortunately, the clock is not stopping with the with the amount of money that's needed to pay for this. That's all I got, Mr. Chair. Thank you, sir. All right. Any further discussion? I was going to say to my defense, I did make uh some substantial recommendations that uh that didn't go any further, but at least I tried. Okay. All right. Cash your votes electronically, gentlemen. Mr. Dudley. Yes. Just to clarify, this is um to keep the rate where it is. Correct.

Correct. Correct. Then my vote would be yes. No increase. All right, motion passes. Thank you so much. All right, anything else from the board?

Uh, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for hosting this tonight. Thank all the uh board members for participating. It's a I mean these can be very contentious uh hearings. I think we all need to go through this. We need to understand what the citizens want. We also need to understand as a board what is needed. And Mr. Sharter, thank you very much for coming up with a very good comprehensive plan and I hope that we're able to work through this and find the funds that are needed that we were not able to produce this evening. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Bowman. And let me also express my gratitude to the public for coming out tonight uh you know expressing yourself voicing your concerns and uh we we hear you. Uh also thank you to the staff Mr. Vanderhigh and the finance team along with Mr. Sharter. I appreciate all of your hard work on this budget. Uh we have to now go back and you need to find $2 million. All right. Yes, sir. Mr.

Yes, sir. I'd like to also thank everybody for coming out. I want to thank this board. I mean, we have a lot of tough decisions to make. I understand that. But I respect everybody. You know, at the end of the day, that's what it's about. Uh I want to thank all the staff for what they done. Mr. Short, our finance director, Miss Vanderhid. But, you know, like I said, when I make a decision, I I feel good about it. When I voted no against that, I felt fine about it. And I think we can work this thing out and work together and make things happen. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

To your defense, there is a there's a timeline that we have to meet these deadlines and you did not arbitrarily pick the Easter break to do this. No, it's just the way that it happened. So, that was not intentional. It's just the way that it uh happened. So, appreciate your um leadership there.

Thank Thank you for bringing that up. Uh Mr. Ingram, actually, if everyone remembers the snow event, snow creed event or whatever the case is, it u it caused the county staff to be out for half a week or better, and we had meetings scheduled that we couldn't make. So, yes, we're mandated to hit certain uh timelines. Everything is timesensitive to be able to get this budget in on time to the state of Virginia. So, I appreciate everyone's patience with the process and all of us have to trust the process. Thank you so much. Meeting a journ.