Audit Advisory Committee - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to today's meeting of the Hideaway Beach Tax District Board. Tara, can you call the roll, please? Member Barto? Here. Member Zinkin?

Here.

Vice chair DeLauter?

Here.

Member Ramirez? Here. Chair Ryan? Here. I do the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Our first item is approval of the agenda. Does anyone have any changes that they would like to make to today's agenda? Okay. Hearing none, can I have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the agenda.

I'll second

Okay. All in favor?

Aye. The

next item is approval of the minutes. Anyone have any changes they would like to make to So the you're making a motion to

I'll make a motion to

I second the motion.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Okay. Next, we turn to old business. The first item under old business is Tiger Tail Lagoon Sand Dollar Island project update from Mohammad Debiz, Hamestin and Moore.

Good afternoon, and welcome back, everyone. It's good to see you back. For the record, Mohammad Abi's Hamstramore engineers. And this meeting, have an eventful agenda mainly because it's our first meeting for a few months and there is a lot of issues that took place over this summer. I think this is not the correct item.

The other item is labeled project update 6A. That's it. So for the project update as far as Tiger Tail Sand Dollar Island project, and I'll provide that update and show some of the recent aerials of the both Hideaway Beach and Tiger Tail, Sand Dollar Island. Over the summer, the most eventful item would be Justin's effort to present the city's request for TDC funding for reimbursing the district on the expenses that the district incurred to restore Tiger Tail Lagoon and Sand Dollar Island post the twenty twenty four hurricane season. And the short of the story is that we were successful in our ask, but it doesn't go without giving a lot of challenging meetings and good presentations by Justin and a lot of points that we learned along the way that we will need to address before our next ask.

And I believe that would be an item that Justin can elaborate on in his report, but that would be our highlight and our gratitude to the sequence of events that allowed us the advance from the tax district to do the work, to restore the system before the problem become unrecoverable. And now we have a stable system in the sense that the features of the system are acting as they intended to. We have the lagoon and the lagoon is separated from the open coast by the sand spit. We're also managing the growth of the tip of the island and maintaining the different levels of habitat on the island. The bottom line is that we did have a significant impacts to the entire region from the hurricane season of twenty twenty four, specifically the Hurricanes Helene and Milton that produced significant surge that caused impacts not only to the sand spit, but also to the lagoon itself and to the vegetation.

If I move through these pictures, you'll see that the pictures as we see them now, we have completed the restoration in February. And now we're eight months post construction. The we're basically holding our lines in the sense that the island is still where it's supposed to be. The lagoon is flowing in and out and the vegetation is recovering from the impacts from the storm. There are areas where Tim and Mariel have kind of prepped for natural recovery and they're observing it over this year.

And then there are areas where they introduced additional vegetation to kind of recover some of the material that some of the function of the living shorelines and the upland vegetation that we have. And if I can invite Tim with this aerial to kind of guide you towards the different aspects of the biological efforts and the recovery for the system.

Hi. Good afternoon. As Mohammed said, we we ended up, planting a a few of the areas here to to help with some of the

show Do you mind just stating your name for the record? And I'm David Tulsis, board attorney. Thanks.

Sorry. Yeah. Tim Hall with Jerrell Hall and Associates. As Mohammed had said, we did spend some time coming up with a a planting plan and planting those areas that that I felt were more vulnerable and that we wanted to get some recovery going sooner rather than later so that we could get more plants get the plantings established. And those areas were, like, here around the the picnic area for the for the community and then an area just south of of that air of of the picnic area.

We planted about, in the picnic area, I would say, about 80, 80 or 90 mangroves and buttonwoods right along the shoreline. And then we also went further inland with some more dune type plants, some sea grape, sea oats, and some other stuff to help kind of fill that area in that that got impacted, not just with the storms, but through some of the staging and operations that the guys did some damage not damage, but they were in those areas when they were trying to dig all the material out. So we kind of put some stuff in there to to jump start the recovery there. And then south of the picnic area, we, we planted about another 290, mix of mangroves and buttonwoods to stabilize that shoreline to the south where the sand had gone in and just killed all of that shoreline vegetation. And the reason that I did the mix with the mangroves and the buttonwoods was because the sand was still relatively high towards the inland portion of that shoreline, and I felt that the buttonwoods had a much better chance of success.

They also grow a little bit faster than the mangrove, so that root system can get into the soil, start stabilizing it. We have a row, a row and a half of mangroves right along the shoreline. And then as we start getting some natural recovery, that that should that should thicken up over the next few years. We did not plant the the this island area down here that also was pretty severely damaged by the overwash, and we pulled all of that material out. But I did not plant that one because I wanted to see what kind of natural recovery we get into that area and let the that mangrove and that successional activities happen kind of on their own.

I wasn't as concerned about that area. It's not in one of the high energy areas in terms of being unstable with respect to the shoreline, and also I think we had some time to to let it do some recovery on its own. That does two things. It it saves money because we don't have to pay for plants or the planting and all, but also it allows the plants that want to grow there to get established and start growing so that we're not we're not forcing anything into that. I expect a mix of of probably white mangroves will get started first, and you'll get a really fast flush of growth.

And then the red mangroves, as they get established, will gradually take over from those whites. So that's kind of what what we've done with respect to that. Mariel has a lot more of the details with respect to the the seagrasses and all. A huge amount of the seagrasses out there got buried. So luckily, we've had a relatively quiet year this year. We're trying to, hope and see how much of that area is able to recover, how much of the seagrasses that got buried will be able to work their way through and and hopefully get reestablished.

Okay. Great. Anyone have any questions for Tim? I just wanna thank you you and Mariel for your work on this. I think it was very important and also comment that this was done in collaboration with the association. The association worked with Tim on the plantings inland, and we covered the plantings that were along the the shoreline. So working together, you know, we achieved the best plan that we could for the damage that had been done there. So really appreciate that and your continued guidance as to what we may need to do in the future to maintain that shoreline.

No. I I appreciate that. And and for those of you that that maybe haven't been out there, the plantings went in towards the August. So we'll be doing some periodic monitoring to see how they, you know, how they they take hold, and and hopefully, we we get really good survival.

And I should comment too. There was a favorable post on the Hideaway Facebook page regarding the plantings and how happy they the person was to see that we were making efforts to bring the vegetation back.

Yeah. It was

when we first put them in, it was sad. We had all of these spindly trees going in and stumps right there on the bottom of them. So it looked pretty sad, but it's getting better.

Yes. Good. Thank you. Thanks.

And if I may add, the planting were done partially from what you approved last meeting or the earlier this year. The second part of the planting that is also was part of Tim's recommendation is deferred to next year, even though you've already approved that part. And as I indicated earlier, the recovery plan in general was approved for reimbursement by the county. So so far what we did this year is the initial preplanned maintenance plus the storm recovery and both of those, the construction costs were covered by Collier County. The next item that I would like to cover

is

I

ask one question on the prior slide, Mohammad?

Yes.

Can you just comment regarding our permitting status on the distribution channel because I noticed there's a fair amount of sand in the southern part of the lagoon there?

The distribution channel permit modification was issued.

Right. And I'm not sure if the whole Board knows that.

Yes. Part of our effort and especially after seeing how far the overwash can penetrate in the system, we wanted to make sure that if the system overwashes from any point because during Helene and Milton, it kind of overwash towards the picnic area, but in Idalia, it overwashed primarily on the South Side. So if it overwashes on the South Side and our dredging permit authorization ends in this location, we will not be able to clear a blockage that may happen in the future. So we provided an application for a permit modification that allows us to maintain a 20 foot wide channel that connects the lagoon across that area that in the past had significant amount of seagrasses, but with all the storms that occurred, a lot of these seagrasses were covered by sand. So in short, we have now more authorization.

So our dredging now ends at this location here, so that if in the future we have an overwash in this area that kind of cuts off the water flow between the north part and the lagoon on the south end by the park, we should be able to manage that in the future if necessary.

And that was done in collaboration with County. That was important to Collier County coastal zone management that we get that permit modification. So anything done down there would be in collaboration with the county.

Yes. And as I indicated with the first important item is that our collaboration with the county is achieving two goals. Number one is that we are committed to meeting the permit compliance and making the effort to maintain the system such that it qualifies for the county reimbursement when it meets the county's criteria as under TDC Council and also meets the federal requirements for making FEMA claims. And on that note, our we also filed a FEMA claim for the damages from Hurricanes Helene and Milton. And that application has met the initial review by FEMA and it's being pushed up the chain.

However, since the whole project area is in a COBRA zone that requires consultation with Fish and Wildlife Service. And we believe and the FEMA review initial review believes that, that meets the exception for the COBRA or the Coastal Barrier Act limitation on federal funding. We need the exception, but it still has to go through the federal process, which is currently more averse to funding projects in COBRA zones. But it's still at this point moving forward.

You said we're permitted to go down the South side now and take out that barrier?

It if it gets shoaled, yeah.

Will we dredge it or excavate it?

It will all depend at the time of the operation and the presence of seagrasses around the channel that we authorized. So at this point, and I don't believe that we have significant seagrasses in this area, but it may change whenever we are proposed to do action. So it will require to be defined in the preconstruction submittal to the state that we have to specify the means and methods and they have to approve it before we move forward.

That channel appears to be closing in, is that correct?

Yes. As of now, that 20 foot width and three feet deep that we are authorizing as a connection for the water is self scoured and self maintained. It's the main purpose for our permit modification is if we get a storm that creates a shoal or a clog that completely shuts off the system, we have the authorization to clear that clog.

So we're planning on digging it out some or we're to aren't?

Not now.

Not at this point.

It's self flushing currently.

Currently, it's self flushing to what is necessary for the ecosystem. And in this section, the authorized permit is a lot smaller than the system to the north because of the banks that is intended to recruit seagrasses.

That certainly appears it needs to have something done. We need to plan on doing something.

When we plan the next event, we'll assess the system and then we'll include it depending on all the factors that are a part of our permit authorizations as well as the direction from the biological concerns over whether it's wading birds or seagrasses or any other environmental constraints that are specified in our various permits. The next item that I would like to discuss is the status of the dune restoration and hideaway restoration that Michael will address later on, but part of our effort last year or the

I think we skipped an item. You have a proposal under Item 6A.

Okay. So how do I go to the main taps? Okay. So yes. So as we indicated that we continue to meet our requirements and our part of the agreements with the county that the district is responsible for the compliance items and for the regular data collection and monitoring and administration of the permit compliance items.

And among those are environmental and engineering monitoring requirements. So far, we have covered the first March of this year. There were items that we were budgeted for, but were not done. And then there were items that are still to be done this year. So all the POs that were opened were closed at the September.

And the request that's in front of you now is to a proposal for continued environmental and engineering services for Terrell Holland Associates and Hamasdan Mohr for the total of $25,482.5 And that's to carry over the environmental and engineering services for the last 2025.

Okay. And I make a motion.

Yes. Does anyone have any questions first or

I'm sorry?

Any questions?

No questions on this proposal.

I didn't hear you.

Any questions on this No.

I just think we need take some action.

Okay. Not hearing any questions?

I have a question

on that. Okay. Go ahead, John.

Just to acknowledge here, we have billable hours for each department.

No, the billable hours is for Hamster and Moore because we are in a continued contract with the city and we have to define the billable hours in our proposal. The Terrell Hall is a sub consultant under Hamster and Moore, and that's why the second page of this proposal have the items listed by task and costs. And we basically, we're structured to follow requirements. That's why we have to specify our hours since

There are twenty twenty five rates?

Yes.

Okay. If there are no more questions, I'll entertain a motion.

I make a motion that we approve the

Is there a motion to put in and and Yes.

You can.

Put this to put this information on and and for now to get it going, or what do you need to do?

Yeah. That's the I believe that's mister Zinken's

Member Zinken was starting a motion. Go ahead. Ahead,

mister Zinken. I was proposing that we approve the proposal from Hubbardston and Moore for the environmental services or excuse me, the engineering services amounting to $14,326. And in addition, approved the proposal to Raul Hall and Associates for the environmental services amounting to $11,156.50.

You're making that motion? Yes, sir. I'll second Thank you. And

that's for a total of $25004.82.5. Okay. Alright. Any further discussion on this? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes. 25. Okay. Then the next item is the Hideaway Beach South Point culvert permitting and dune restoration update also from Mohammad Tabis, Hamasun and Moore.

Okay. In this item, we've received a request for additional information. If you recall, we've submitted if I can just skip quickly to the picture I had earlier. So the South Point area was among the areas that were most impacted. Area on South Point and the area south of the Beach Club had were in the receiving end of a lot of the surge ebb or the surge water flowing out into the Gulf was channelized primarily in South Point and in areas between the gaps of structures between South Point and the Beach Club.

And as a result, we had complete overwash and impact to some of the properties on South Point as well as we had kind of gullies or depression areas on the beach all the way from South Point to the beach club between the structures. So during our beach recovery efforts post storms, the same contractor was tasked with doing the beach recovery for Hideaway Beach. We managed to recover over 10,000 yards of material from overwash and placed them along the impacted section and restored the beach elevation in most of Hideaway Beach between South Point and the 3,000 or 4,000 Building. We've also used some of the material that was recovered to add protective berm along South Point, knowing that this is an area with a lot of the surface water flows through. And that dune and berm in that area kind of intersected with the outflow of the stormwater system and hideaway.

So we recommended adding a culvert where we can maintain the dune continuity in this area, so it doesn't become a window of vulnerability during a future storm. We submitted that permit application. We received the request for additional information. We worked with the association on coordinating the environmental permitting as well as the culvert design compliance with the water management system and the specifics of the culvert. And we in last month, we submitted the response for the request for additional information from the state and we're hopeful that this will satisfy the permit completion and we should be able to get the permit for this culvert in another month or six weeks.

And just to refresh your mind, the proposed plan, including having a dune that's basically to plus six or plus seven around South Point and having a culvert under the dune to bypass the dune structure. And that culvert will be made of two circular pipes. Each pipe is 24 inches and one of them will be always closed as an emergency or a redundancy and the association will manage the maintenance and operation REPRESENTATIVE:] of this culvert.

Any questions on this

Hamed, I forget. We've talked in this last year. I thought we were paying for the engineering and permitting, and hideaway was paying for the actual installation of the culvert?

We're paying for the permitting. K. The the actual engineering is responsibility of the association and their stormwater engineer. K. And so Mohammed has worked closely with their stormwater engineer and with Tom Ryan, is here now Good. On this and through the association's environmental committee. But we are handling the permitting.

Okay. And part of that is also the easement with state land since the erosion control line is on the landward side of the culvert. And we're working on the easement with CEC and through our coordination with CEC and the state, we determined that the activities that is proposed are within the footprint of the easements of the initial T groins that we permitted in 2004, 2005, and they were constructed in 2005. So as part of our response to the additional information from the state, we stated that the easement was already granted for the previous construction of the tea groins, and we're hopeful that they will kind of process that and allow us the easements to add the culverts within the same easement.

I was over there yesterday and I noticed that all the ponds are full. I would call it considered fuller, up within six inches of the top. And it doesn't appear as draining it doesn't appear we're getting a lot of drainage even though this photo that you have here looks like we're getting a lot of drainage. We're not the pods are not dropping. I don't know why that is.

The main control structure is by the road, here, if you look at your screen.

You talk louder, I just can't hear you real.

I said there is a control structure and a culvert by the road landward, and that's what's controlling the flow. So we are basically we're only managing the flow when it intersects with the beach because the district jurisdiction is not the management of the water system upland. And I think the association is upgrading and improving their drainage system, but I don't think they have implemented their new plan yet.

Yeah. That would be a better question directed to the association and the environmental committee. Our only interest here is getting the water across across the beach and making sure we have a a permit that allows the association to to manage that. You said you were gonna raise the dune height to plus six. What is it at now?

This area before our last our effort this spring was a taper from Hideaway Beach. The Hideaway Beach that is facing north has an elevation of 5.5 at the backside of the berm as the top elevation. And then South Point along that curve was graded down to 2.5 to or plus two, two point five and that allowed the water that flows out of the storm drainage to meander on that kind of flat area to the lagoon. And that is basically an area that accumulated sand over the years. South Point used to be mangrove shoreline throughout when before Sand Dollar Island kind of wrapped around the system.

So and that's why the drainage system is not really was not really designed to crossover a beach. So what we proposed is to carry slightly higher dune elevation than the 5.5. So our kind of design target, if I go back to the profile, is to mimic the 5.5 that is along most of Hideaway Beach at the front of the dune and create and just slightly elevated at the backside to six. And then when we recovered the storm water sorry, the overwash, we stockpile the sand in that dune to slightly above. So when we put the culvert, we can grade the top to plus six and have sand that would cover the culvert without having to bring in new sand.

So as of now, you can see on the profile here that the design template is the light black line and the dark line is what CEC surveyed a month ago or two months ago, and that just gives us a little bit of workability so that when we install the culverts, we will be able to kind of cover the culverts and maintain the elevation of 5.5 to six similar to the dunes that are along the main beach for hideaway. We have another item.

No. I I think I think that's it for your update, Mohammed, unless you have something else. And we'll we'll move on to item 6c, the 2025 annual monitoring update from Michael

Good afternoon. For the record, Michael Poff, Coastal Engineering. Hopefully, everybody had a good summer. Can you bring up there's a two page summary. If you could bring that up first before the report.

Thank you. So per the permits, we're required to do annual monitoring for three years after construction. Because the bar area was utilized as part of the sand source for St. Allen Tiger Tail Lagoon, you're required to do the monitoring. We also recommend you do the monitoring so we have information in order to, of course, make all these management decisions.

So we conducted the surveys again. And on October 1, we submitted the report to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection in compliance with the permits. So between the 2024 and 2025 monitoring surveys, so last summer to this summer, the changes were as follows. We had 3,260 cubic yards of gain, which would be on South Point, so that'd be the South End, as Mohammad briefly described, the location. Central Beach moves us up towards the clubhouse, 2,660 cubic yards of loss.

Royal Marco Point will take us up to right around the I believe it's the one or 2,000 building, thirteen thirty cubic yards of gain. And then for North Beach, which should be the last two main towers, 2.5 towers, seven twenty cubic yards of gain. That results oh, sorry. Then the State Land Beach, which would be north of your property, it had a loss of thirteen ninety cubic yards. The net change was twelve fifty cubic yards, which is a very, very small change considering the let me get the next set of as well because Linda asked me for another set of calcs.

It just one thing I'd just remind everyone that we did do the recovery on the beach. So

Correct. I was gonna get to that.

Is that yes. Okay.

So there were there were more losses and and a lot more change. But as part of your work, Mohammad and the contractor EarthTec came in and they did import some sand, and they did do a nice grading and cleaning up the scours and things of that nature to get the beach back to a pre storm condition. So there was not a significant volume imported, just a couple 100 yards of that was actually imported. So some areas had overwash, you recapture the overwash, put it back on the beach. And so this is remarkable considering the amount of loss that occurred up and down our coast to have, obviously, the coastal structures worked, the protection of Sand Island and then your immediate response to get the beach and the overwash sand captured and back on the beach.

So we did have, on average, 3.2 feet of recession at the Mean High Waterline. The Stateland Beach, however, did have a significant erosion event again. But every hurricane that we've had since we've been monitoring has caused that kind of erosion on that beach. And we'll talk about that as we talk about the long term management strategies and how that what Collier County's planning for Collier Creek will tie in on the North End. And so part of your permit requires you to address the erosion on the North End if it's caused immediately by the impact of the last three T groynes that were installed in 2013.

And every survey we've done on your behalf has shown that the significant amount of erosion on that beach that's occurred has been because of the hurricanes Irma, Ian, Adalia, Helene, Milton, five major storms or you can blame. We can't put a number on it because we don't have a pre storm survey before every post storm survey, but it's it's evident and also because of the structural damage that was done on the terminal groin that these storms are what's causing the damage on that end. So the agencies have not made you import sand in that area because of that documentation. I have the whole report as another submittal. We sent it to you on October 1 as well.

I was not going to take your valuable time unless you want me to go through. Thank you. I am happy to go through any more details that you'd like to have. I figured I'd let you ask your questions, and then we can bring the report up and go to specific sections if you have questions.

You know the one question I have, which

is Yes.

Particularly if I look at your figure two, which is on page five where you show sort of black polygons of what the template is.

Sure. So Linda

The report goes year to year, and I'd like to understand how much room there is in our temp template from a sand volume standpoint.

Sure. So we took the 2025 profile, compared it to our construction template, which is in the permits. And so on South Point, again, moving from south to north, 3,600 cubic yards to fill the template. I'm rounding off to the nearest 100. 6,300 yards for Central, 9,300 yards for Royal Marker Point.

It has the exposure because that's where Sand Dollar Island ends. So it has the exposure to the direct wave influence. And then North Beach, also with direct exposure, 7,900. So if you're taking notes from south to north, 3,600, 6,300, 9,300, 7,900, and that rounds up to basically just over 27,000 cubic yards.

To fill the template.

To fill your permitted template. And last time we filled it was 2019. So it's been six years, and you've had, I think, all the storms we've had in that time. Now, again, you did recovery work after Helena Milton. But prior to that, there had been no so, again, the the program's working. The the beach and the structures have have have held up well to your storms, and that's a very small volume to fill the template after six years since she filled it last.

Yeah. And Mohammed said we captured 10,000 cubic yards in the maintenance we did

In the Overwatch recovery. So But again, that was sand that was there. It wasn't like And

in 2019, when we did that project, how much sand did we put on the beach? Do you know, roughly?

I'll have it tomorrow morning because

it's in one

of my slides.

Yeah. Yeah. You can get back. You can get back to me on that.

It will be presented tomorrow morning because I have I have a history of the slides.

Versus the 27,000.

Wanna say it was, like, 75,000 total.

So could be as much as three times as much that we put in in 2019. Okay.

So we also if you recall, we also raised the berm a half a foot, which took a lot of volume to to achieve that. So that's not a fair comparison. If you look at the prior volumes, we were in like the 40,000 to 50,000 range. But 2019 was higher because we brought the beach up by half a foot.

800 and some thousand.

800 some? Well, that would

have been the 800.

No. No.

Okay. Well, that would be helpful.

We have it tomorrow morning at the workshop. We have

the history of all of

events, and it's in a chart that we'll present tomorrow morning.

Yes. And so if you can compare in past beach restorations, when you're comparing apples to apples, how much sand did we put on the beach?

Yeah. This is a back half.

Just to have just trying to gauge us as we're planning for our next beach restoration, kind of where we're at. Okay. Thank thank you.

Michael, as an aside, curious. Have you heard any more from the county with regards to Collier Creek in the latest?

They're still in the Corps of Engineers permit process. We did check-in with the Corps as well, and they are still going through the consultations and responding to information. With the current shutdown, a lot of the regulatory folks are furloughed. And so there is no you can't even give you a time frame now of how long that's going to take. So I guess You learned you didn't learn anything else, Mohammed, did you? No. So that's Yeah.

So you recommend that we take out 27 cubic yards 27,000 cubic yards?

No, sir. We recommend you monitor at this time. I would not mobilize a dredge for 27,000 yards. So your erosion rate has been low. I would continue to monitor. We're going to talk about some strategies tomorrow at the workshop about some other refinements to the design. But for that volume, if there is a spot that you think we need to bring in sand, I would do a truck haul project. And every time we talk about it, you all say you don't want to do truck haul because of the potential impacts to the uplands and the roads and those kind of things.

Right. Okay.

So what are you recommending that we do to make sure the ponds stay at a reasonable level or higher than they should be and we make sure we have room if we had a storm for water that is not here now. Are there any recommendations you have for that?

Not today. We will talk about some of the long term strategies about maybe raising elevation through dune enhancement and things. But for today, the annual monitoring report stands on its own. Based upon the post recovery efforts that you implemented, your beach and your structures and we'll talk about the structures in the next presentation there's no recommended action at this time for your beach project.

Okay. K.

Great. Any other questions for Michael?

Has the county sort of doing anything with Collier Creek?

They're working on the permits, and they're waiting for their federal permit.

That's two or three years.

Correct.

It's been a long time. Okay. I think, the next item on the agenda is item 60, also, with Michael Poff on the assessment of our T groins and our signs that we asked him to complete this summer so we had an understanding if any maintenance was required now or in the near future on our T groins or on the signs that Justin had brought forward that some signs perhaps had been lost, and we needed to understand whether those signs were still required. So Michael, I'll turn it back to you.

Sure. This is the second half of the item. This is the to finish out the report. Can you bring up the actual report, please? It's about maybe 12 or 18 pages. There we go. Okay. So based on discussions in the spring, we were charged with doing an inspection of the 19 T groynes to assess their design function and come up with any repair plans that we felt were necessary. So we did a visual inspection. Some of the T groynes are covered with sand.

So our goal was not to uncover those T groins, to inspect them. If they're covered with sand, that's a pretty good sign that things are in good shape, especially down the South End where they're protected by Sand Dollar Island. So we have a quick history. And so the initial installation of the rock T groynes occurred at South Point and Royal Marco Point in 2005. We didn't talk about the temporary ones that were before that. We just started with the current structures. Then in 2010, there were six additional Tigaroids. This was done by Homestead and Moore. The county did the 2005 project and then you did the 2010 project. We adopted our design and then produced the last three that were installed in 2013 along North Beach.

Next page, please. So here's our overall map of Hideaway. Next page. The 19 Tigroynes. For simplicity, we're starting with the Tigroyn number one on the South to Tigroyn 19 in the North. That's not how they were constructed necessarily, but for this purpose of this presentation, we just went from south to north. Next slide. Here's a summary of your management activities. So actually, the 2013 is in here. So there it is, the 75,000 yards in 2013. So Linda, to answer your question from the previous agenda item, it was 75,000 yards.

But that, you said, raised the elevation of the berm. So maybe tomorrow, you can give us the apples to apples roughly. Thank you.

Next slide. So here are the original 02/2010 installation by Homestead and Moore comes right from their reports. Next slide. And then the three T groins from North Beach. You may recall, we did design a fourth T groin on the State Land Beach.

We also had designed a change in the jetty at Collier Creek to open that up. The DEP was really not in favor of that fourth T groin. So we did remove it from the application. The Corps of Engineers did permit it. The jetty structure was never implemented because Cartier County said they're going to handle the Cartier Creek management and they'll handle the jetty, which is what they're currently permitting. Next slide. These are the typical details. Again, credit to Homosyne Moore where credit is due. We use the same design sections. Next slide.

The Tigroids have been the most successful part of any of planning we've done, in my opinion.

They have done what they're supposed to do.

They've done what they wanted to do.

They've held the beach in place. We recognize that you get a T groin, you do get that scalloping between the structures, but that is by design. Next slide. So on September 16, our team of engineers did the inspections. We also collected photographs and we collected profiles, cross sections of the T groin structures at key spacings.

There were, in the original projects, because of the fact that they were the first time rock structures replaced. So Homosider Moor had signs on the outer ends that warned folks about dangerous submerged rock. So there are two signs that remain at the ends of Tigroyn 12 And 16, which is basically the Rail Marco Point to Central Beach and Rail Marco Point to North Beach interfaces. Now that we have all these structures in place and you have continual structures, we did not propose any additional structures in 2013. We're the last three.

We're not recommending any new signs, except for the fact that one is completely upside down. So I would say, at a minimum, it'd be good to right side that sign. But these structures have now been in place for twelve years and beyond, as many as twenty years now. So it's our recommendation you don't need to add any additional signs. There are none required in the permits that was done by the Homestead and Moore for safety reasons. But now they've been in place that long and the two signs that remain are where you have the closest points for boating traffic. I think just maintaining those two signs is fine. And like I said, just riding that one sign. There are a couple of posts upland that have the life preservers and the safety lines and things. So a couple of those got knocked out.

So that's something you could do and put those back in. We note that in the report where they're missing. That would be a minimal activity you may want to consider doing. There was one at each T groin at one time or another.

Is that something the district put in?

No. Think I don't know.

I think Hideaway Beach did that.

And so you've noted which ones are missing. Perhaps you could send us information on that we can share with the association.

Sure. I thought I had it in here, but I don't see it right now. Maybe it's on the next slide. So as far as results go, when you do coastal structures or as an FDOT, very common, you have good, fair, poor and critical. Well, I didn't even put critical in there because we're even close to critical. All the structures are rated good. They're all performing to their design intent. There's some misplaced stone from the different storms over time. And so these are two typicals. This is at Station 30. This is Tigroin 3. So this is now at South Point, completely covered in sand. The template is full. The structure has been completely covered with sand. You've got Sand Island.

Certainly, first six or seven Tigroynes, it's the same story down there. As you start to get closer to the end of Sand Island, you start to see so this is Station 152. This would be at Tigroyn 15. This would be Royal Marco Point. The red line is the existing profile and the black line is your design template. And so we're missing a couple of stones at this particular cross section. Next page. So if it's buried, we didn't rate it. But if you go back and look at historical photographs when they were not buried, the structures are intact. For those that we were able to do the full assessment, we rated them all good.

So in order to bring them to the design function, you would need about four thirty tons. With that said, when Homo sotomor did those first sets of installations and they were isolated, they had an extension on the outer T groins on the rock aprons on the ends. So they made them beefier in order to address the fact that there were no adjacent T groins. So if you look at it as we now have T groins the whole length, we don't need to beef up those sections, That number drops down. So the repair tonnage would be about 300 tons.

It's a pretty small quantity in the scheme of things. But unfortunately, that's going to drive your price up because it's just like trying to dredge 27,000 yards. When you pay for the mobilization and the activities to get there now, in this case, the mobilization shouldn't be that high. But ultimately, it'd be about 300 tons if you really wanted to do something at this time. Next page.

You would use dump trucks. So the contractor would import stone at the right density. They would come through the existing construction access that's been used for all the projects. They would deliver the stone and they would use there's excavators that have like special rotating and they have fingers on them, rock pickup. I would hope they would use a thumb that would be able to then take these boulders.

They're going to have to probably use a jet pump to kind of jet some of the sand out. And then you have to move a couple of stones because you're not going to find the perfect sized stone to fit every hole in these structures. So it would be kind of a delicate placement, move some stone around, fill in the voids. When you look at the erosion rates and how low they've been, you're not going to see an enhanced performance of your beach project by placing this 300 tons.

That's what I was going to ask you, so we could do that as part of our beach renourishment.

So that's our suggestion. Let's wait till we have the next maintenance event or next hurricane recovery effort when you have people on-site mobilized. Why disturb the beach now to put a few stones in that really truly aren't gonna necessarily net you a huge gain. And this cost will change if you do it in conjunction with some other projects. It would go down.

Mohammed has a question.

Okay. We'll recognize Mohammed Debees.

One of the items that we need to address is escarpments as part of our management of Sand Dollar Island. We had significant escarpments this past month that required by permit that they be knocked out. We submitted a request to waive that escarpment management since we did it already in March before the turtle nesting season and DEP just yesterday or FWC yesterday just granted us our waiver request. So we don't have the requirement to knock the current escarpment. However, in their review, they requested that we coordinate with them before the total next season of 2026 so that we can maintain or manage the escarpment by Zen.

Given the make out of how the elevations we put in the spit are higher than its typical low lying elevations, we would expect to have some escarpments. So this year, we may need to bring equipment and do escarpment management later in the winter. My it's an item that I was going to discuss later in the end of the strategic planning as part of recommendations to the Board. But in light of what Michael is presenting, if we have to bring heavy equipment and a contractor to manage the escarpment, we may need to do more of a grading light project for a maintenance along San Dollar Island that instead of knocking the escarpment by pushing it in the water. And since now we're there are areas that are really thin, we could use 3,000 to 5,000 yards from the sand spit to kind of grade the escarpment by putting a grade in front of the escarpment, so we don't compromise the integrity of the existing width of the spit.

And in my estimation, that would be in a budget around $100,000 $120,000 and instead of $20,000 of beach grading without bringing the sand. However, the added $100,000 for bringing sand will give us will achieve two things. Number one is we will have a better integrity of the system moving into the second or the third year post the last project. And then second, it will address some of the concerns that people keep complaining about with our project and managing the PR for the area that we're managing. And then if that contractor is already mobilized, it would be similar to us servicing Hideaway Beach with a different task to the same contractor that mobilized in the area.

If it's the same contractor that does that did the work, which is part of the vendors in Collier County, EarthTec have their own rock suppliers, and they can produce the 300 tons that are needed to refurbish the structures at the same time they're doing the grading. But those should be two different tasks. But as far as contractors are concerned, if they're mobilized, they're mobilized. So in short, if since I know tomorrow is a workshop, we cannot really have any voting items. If you see fit that you authorize the city or me requesting quotations from the approved vendors on how much the concept that I just described to you, including the refurbishment of the structure, will cost as two separate tasks, and then I can bring those quotations to you in the next meeting.

Do we need to do that now or could we discuss that at the next meeting?

If if I might I mean, this this time is really not on your agenda.

Right.

So I would I would recommend you put it on your next agenda for discussion. Yeah.

It's to tie in to the recommendations of Right. Of deferring this recommendation to the next

Right. Why don't we bring that forward for our November meeting? And it sounds like, Michael, what you're saying is the T groins are really in good shape. There's some maintenance we could do at a timing of our choice whether it makes sense financially to do it as Mohammed's suggesting. We can look at that. We could also defer it to when we do the next major beach renourishment. So those will be the considerations that we'll discuss at our next meeting.

Thank you.

Alright. Okay. Did you complete your report on the okay.

I sure did. Any Any any questions?

Any questions from the board? Thank you, Michael. That was extremely helpful. That really Thank

you very for your observation.

Where we are on our tea groins and addressing the issue that Justin had brought forward relative to signs that once had been there that were no longer there. So we really appreciate that, and that gives us the input to make some decisions, hopefully, in our in our next meeting or in conjunction with the next major beach renourishment. So thank you. Okay.

There's a second part to the agenda item.

Oh,

yes. Similar to what Mohammed presented because of the city's calendar. Yep. We had to finish this after the October 1. So we're asking for the remainder of the fees to be approved. It was $2,772.

2,272

thousand 772.

So, basically, those are funds that were already approved. But because the work was completed in October, it wasn't spent in fiscal year 2025, and we need approval for February for the completion of the T groin inspection work that was just presented to you.

I'll make a motion that we approve the expenditure of $2,772 to Humans and Moore for the balance of

the Coastal Engineering.

Coastal Engineering.

Thank you. I'll second it.

Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Thank you, Michael.

Thank you, Michael. You're very welcome. I think we're next as well. So I'll So just stay

Item 6E is the next item, twenty twenty six Hideaway Beach long term management strategies, and that's both Mohammad Debiz, Homestead and Michael Paff, CEC.

I'll start. You wanna jump up whenever it's convenient? It's up to you. So again, Michael Paff, Coastal Engineering Consultants, my good friend Mohammad Debis, I'm going sit in the morning. So tomorrow, we'll be before you on a workshop. We've been working with Phyllis throughout the summer on some of the what's the best way I could some of the philosophy, strategies, and maybe some of the grumblings about storm surge resiliency. If they can do this over in Dubai, why can't we do it here? If they can do it over here, why can't we do it here? Norway. Type of calling the purple cows.

So we're going to present tomorrow in a workshop the current project, and we'll go back through, which I gave you that presentation actually last year on all the different elements in preparation for future permitting efforts. We'll talk about everything that has been accomplished. Mohammad will talk about everything on Tiger Tail, Sandar Island. We'll talk about refinements to our existing program in terms of do we want to enhance the dune? When should we enhance the dune?

What elevations should we be looking for dune enhancement? At what point does it start to affect the landscaping and other things that homeowners and property owners have done along hideaway? If you want to hold your beach width, then you have to start encroaching landward. There was discussion about modifying the T groin on the very North End, basically beefing it up because it's been exposed and the Collier County plan hasn't happened yet. There's discussion about at South Point where these breaches are occurring And we're having wave attack at South Point and putting in additional T groynes.

We'll have exhibits. We'll talk about the constraints that you have to abide by in terms of the permit realm. And then we'll talk about some of the scenarios that people have shared and Phyllis brought to us in terms of, why don't we just armor the entire Sand Dollar Island and then it won't move? Or why don't we put a large breakwater offshore or a series of breakwaters offshore that will protect all of us. And so we'll talk about the fact that you're talking six, seven digits for those types of projects and the permitting.

And we're in a transgressive shoreline, which means that shoreline continues to evolve, migrate and roll over and move landward. And we have experience in other parts of Florida and The Gulf or even the East Coast where those types of situations have been tried, have been tested and have failed. And so we'll share all that information, which is the goal of tomorrow, is just to share our wealth of knowledge in this system and where we've worked other places. So you want to add some more?

And the main thing that I want to add, I just want to credit Phyllis and Michael for how much we got done with three meetings, but Ms. Ramirez did a lot of homework and she came prepared to every single meeting and she prepared like what we're going to achieve in every meeting. So by the end of the three meetings, I think we have a comprehensive review of what can and what cannot be done and also what is our best path moving forward. So it's been a really it has been a very good experience to work with this team. And I just wanted to add that to the summary that Michael introduced and look forward for the detailed discussion tomorrow.

Okay. And then I think you both have proposals for us because, again, we approved the expense for this work in the last fiscal year. But because the work continued beyond September 30, we have some monies that we need to approve that wasn't spent in 2025 that now is being spent in 2026.

And just to clarify based on our conversation that you said go ahead and put additional funds in there for going to meet the association and some follow-up on these items. So we just we both just put it back in for $10,000. It's time and materials. So after the workshop tomorrow, if nothing else happens, then obviously we won't bill you anymore. But you have this as as you need us for those tasks after the first meeting tomorrow.

Okay. Yeah. And maybe it's better discussed tomorrow, but my intent is after this workshop, and we won't make any decisions or vote on anything in the workshop. It's informational. And in our following meeting, we can we can vote or and take steps, but my intent was to bring this work forward to the Hideaway Beach Association Board and to the membership for their feedback and input because I think that's really important relative to our longer term strategy.

And to add to that also, as part of our discussions in addition to working with Michael and Phyllis, we had coordination meeting and Michael kindly joined one of our meetings with the state to discuss strategies and policies to address other stakeholders. As far as when we're doing strategies, it should not be just limited to Hideaway because Hideaway is part of Marco and Marco is part of Collier County. So we had extensive discussions with the state as part of putting together what's possible and whatnot. And among the things that came up were navigation interests that borderline our system and making those adjustments to our activities and our permits to accommodate other city and county interests was part of our matrix of review. We had really good discussions and really breakthroughs with the state in that coordination effort.

And part of what we'll be discussing tomorrow will be an outlook into establishing a beach management agreement with the state, the city and the county as a long term plan. And in that effort, I think we will need to discuss who the stakeholders are and how we can bring our interest within the context of the regional interest.

Okay. Thank you. All right. Do you want to each just put up your proposal so that we can approve it?

I'd assume they were the same as what they were. What?

Yeah. We we have the documents, though. So it's under item six e.

Martin says he's unable to put the documents up on the screen.

Okay. Alright. Then

I think

the CEC, correct me if I'm wrong, you proposed time and materials for up to $10,000.

Correct.

Okay.

So I'd make a motion that we approve CEC's proposal for time and materials up to $10,000.

Okay. I wanna ask Michael.

Hold on just a sec. Do we have a second on that? Okay. Any discussion on the proposal? Is your question on the proposal, Dick? No? Okay. Then we have a second. Any other discussion on the proposal? Okay. Then all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes unanimously. And then similarly, Humiston and Moore also has a proposal for the strategic planning work. Looks like in the amount of 10,009. And $9. So I'll need a motion on that.

Sure. I'll make a motion to approve the proposal on time and materials for and Moore in the amount not to exceed $10,009

I second. Okay. All in favor?

Aye.

Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Thank you all very much, and we look forward to seeing the results of your and Phyllis' work tomorrow.

Did you have a question

for Dick for me?

Dick, did you have a question for Michael on

I had a question for Mike from Okay. Hideaway. Don't know if you have some question that you want to ask us.

No, not now. Why don't we take

I'm glad you're attending. Thank you.

Okay. The next item on the agenda is item six f, the financial report as of the September 30, the end of the fiscal year 2025. Mister Zinkin?

Taking over from Paul Fertsman, who did a great job, which I thank you for all your help publicly. Thanks, Paul. We're in good shape. The cash on hand, as you can see, net of open purchase orders is $1,371,000 and change. That does not include the great job that every Justin and and, Mohammad did with regards to reimbursement for the county in the amount of $647,000 and change.

So when that is billed and comes in, we'll be sitting on approximately $2,019,000 in cash. I would note that I had two different homeowners query me after the new assessed value came in as to why our millage rate was the same. And I explained to them in great detail what we proposed to do in the beach renourishment. But I I was a little shocked, I guess, that I had those inquiries. And I would note that there was an increase in our AV that resulted in about a 10% increase over the prior year.

In other words, last year, we were a million $3.41 $1.65, and this year, we're a million four seventy eight nine thirty. So as we all want to continue to be good stewards and operate in a fiduciary duty towards our fellow residents, I think we need to be mindful of not only the money that we anticipate spending, but but what we anticipate coming in in millage rate. Mhmm. That would be my only comment. And with that, I have no further questions or would entertain any questions.

Anyone have any questions for Steve?

Okay. Also wanna thank staff. Justin, I wish you would convey on to, who was it Tamara that helped me this summer? Tara. Tara. Tara, thank you. You did a nice job. I'd be lost without you.

And I agree with your comments, Steve. And I think it behooves us perhaps to do a more thorough planning assessment before we set the millage rate this year and multiyear budgeting to take a look at what we think the costs are going to be for our future beach renourishment and any other items that we may need to perform like the tea growing maintenance because costs are going up, cost of contractors, and sand is most likely gonna come from the offshore borrow area, which is the most expensive. So I think we need to have as good a cost estimate that we can. And then I think you're correct that our assessed values have continued to go up. And and as a result of that, you know, we should take a close look at what what we think they're going to be for next year and consider that in our millage rate setting in in May, June of next year or 2026.

I think it also goes to the overall public relations of getting information out to Hideaway residents.

And I

think the better job we do on that front, the better understanding there is as to

Right.

Why there's a need.

Right. Okay. Any other comments?

I've had some members ask me similar question what you're talking about there with the wanting to know how you get the the budget down for for the for the for our our our group. And so we can discuss that and hopefully we'll discuss it tomorrow. So but anyway, I think we're doing just fine and and we've we've kept it we've kept the cost down as much as possible, but they want them they want them down further if we can get them down further.

And I understand.

And think you had the same discussion. Yeah. They're talking to me and they talk to

you, Steve.

Yeah. Exactly.

Okay. The next item on the agenda is the the 2026 budget. Or did you already kind of cover that?

2026.

It's just it was really just to show the 2026 budget. But

I apologize to you if I didn't. 2026 budget.

It's You want me go in? Yeah.

It's it's this.

Ah, the the budget that we had set forth took into account the increase of a 136,000 that I talked about over the prior year's gross revenues, which would bring that to a million $4.78 $9.30. And then with regards to professional services, we had a 120,000 for engineering services, 40,000 for bird monitoring, 40,000 for permit compliance monitoring, 15,000 for legal. I'll get to beach raking a little bit, but we had 65,000 plugged in for there. We had reserves for major beach renourishment in '26 to '27 of a 1,000,000.27 and that balanced out between our cash in and cash out to bring it to

zero. Any

questions on the 2026 budget?

Where are we at with the county now? It seemed like they reimbursed us. Is is that gonna be in our favor in the future? Or because we're talking a million 5 here in the budget. So to me, it's a little more if they are going to participate.

There is never any guarantees in the future. So it all depends on the project and bringing it forward to the county for their approval. They did approve, as you know, the most recent work that we did on hurricane maintenance for 2024. So as Steve said, the cash on hand, will be about 2,000,000 when we get that additional reimbursement. At the time we set the mill rate, we did not know whether we would get that reimbursement.

That's the reason why I say

Yeah.

If you're gonna look at the mill rate, I think it's very easy to look at if the county's property in the future is looked at favorable Yeah. Of reimbursements.

Yeah. I think it's hard it's hard to know. They did indicate in the last meeting that they had some concerns going forward, which raises it more in question. So I think we have to balance that. I also think it was difficult with the hurricane repairs. We had to go and do it before we went through the process. Otherwise, the system would have degraded to the point where we couldn't do it. But for normal projects, we should seek their approval and agreement prior to executing the project. That way, we'll know whether we're getting their funding or not.

We're required to do it either or, though.

I'm sorry?

Our permitting, we're required either or to do it. I mean, we have no option but to do the work.

To do well, if we want to continue to maintain our permit, yes. If we don't do the work, then we may lose the ability to do it in the future. That's correct. And certainly, we cannot pick and choose. Like, if we want to maintain the opening at the tip of

You always

sand dollar. We can't choose to do that and not choose to do another piece. It's one system, and we've got to maintain the whole system. And and to be eligible for federal funding, we've got to maintain the system. So okay.

Next item, we move on to new business, item seven a, which is the update on the tractor beach raking and the lease agreement. Unfortunately, just after our May meeting, I became aware that our maintenance and equipment lease agreement for the tractor that we the association uses to maintain our beach, that that lease agreement with the association was expiring this month in about another week or so. So I asked Tom Ryan at the association to work with our treasurer over the summer to come back with a recommendation to the board on, you know, what the association and we want to do. You know, we had the option to renew, have another five year lease. The association had the option to purchase the equipment.

We can always, you know, not not continue the agreement. So Steve has been working with the association over the summer, and he's going to give us an update on the status of that work.

Again, I appreciate Paul. I appreciate John Bartel and Tom Ryan. I got a call from Amon sometime in July. Hey, mister Zinkin, calling you about your tractor right out of the blue. You know, I'm sitting there thinking my head's spinning. You know, it's rusted. We we need to get a new one. Okay. So John, happened to be over in Europe, I reached out to him because and he was and thank you, John. He responds from Spain or, you know, six hour difference, gets back to me.

Paul, god love you, gets back to me from the Northern part of The United States, and they thank you both. It's refreshing when you reach out and you need help. The people respond, and I mean that. Thank you both. Bottom line is I got a friend of mine who is a long time highway resident from Illinois.

He's been around farm equipment all of his life, has a large old press manufacturing facility, restores old cars. And he said, hey. I got a I got a buddy down in Marco who could restore the tractor, sand all the rust, prime it, put two coats of this on, put the ceramic on you do on your fancy cars. Price at $10,000. Sounded reasonable to me.

I hadn't seen the rust, and he hadn't seen the rust. So make a long story short, we kinda looked at it and the tractor's fine. It's got seventeen less than seventeen hundred hours on it. I talked to Chris, the gentleman that's in charge of the Collier County Beach raking long time, who remembers you, Paul, from your discussions five years ago. They typically turn their tractors over somewhere between thirty five thousand to fifty thousand hours.

So I'm probably gonna be six feet underground before we ever need to get a new tractor. The tractor's in decent shape. Yeah. I could use a new front cowling. Tom's done a great job with regards to make sure make maintaining that it's been adequately lubed and and greased and serviced properly. Barber rake's in good shape. I had my friend and I down there on Sunday. And, again, on Monday, we're gonna meet with Tom. Tom got tied up. In my humble opinion, the tractor's fine.

It's in good shape. Then Tom, with, I think, Lori, looked at the exhibit a, your existing exhibit a, which was five years ago, had an hourly rate of $30 an hour plus benefits. Diesel fuel five years ago was $2.50 a gallon. Dumpsters were $495 a month times two. The new rate, which I thought was very fair, and I expressed that in an email to everybody, the new hourly rate would be $35 an hour plus benefits.

Diesel fuel, it's $3.49. That's what we're paying in Indianapolis. The dumpster fees went up a $100 a month to $5.95. It was basically an 8% increase. And I talked to our attorney.

Currently, the agreement reads where the associations to pay for our repairs and maintenance, in fact, and it's we should be. In fact, we've been billed for repairs and maintenance because we wanna keep the tractor in good condition, and we have in fact been paying for him. So I asked our attorney if he would modify the agreement on that paragraph so that we are responsible for the repairs and maintenance. I want it kept in good shape, and so do you. I mean, it it makes common sense.

The second one is I was a little concerned that in five years, they didn't that Hideaway didn't have the ability to increase it. So I would like to ask that we have an amendment, David, to this agreement. And I think Tom and Lori and I have talked about it where they could come back at the end of every other year with proposal if they've had price increases to submit a new exhibit a, and we would have thirty days to or sixty days, whatever everybody thinks is reasonable to accept or reject it. Based upon what they've submitted so far, they've been very fair. But if you're on the opposite side of the shoes, John, and you're running it and your costs have gone up, you you shouldn't have to eat it for five years.

I know. No problem. So I've asked that we modify that one. And meanwhile, Tom and I have agreed verbally, we're gonna extend this for a couple months until we get at the current situation, until we get it all agreed to. The one area that's a little sticky is this lease arrangement.

To me, it's a legal fiction. We bought the agreement. We leased we amortized it over five years as I recall, Paul, to fully amortize the cost of the barber rake and the Kubota tractor such that the monthly payments over five years would reimburse us for the actual cost. And so what they would do, you know, they would invoice us once a month less the cost of the of the lease, which was a fiction. So we're paying their net variable cost, the labor, the fuel, the dumpster fuel, etcetera.

And I suggest to David, David, tractors paid for, that we own it. It's it's do we even need a lease amount? And David was suggesting, yeah, we ought to have a couple $100 a month or something like that. I defer to legal on that.

David Toles' board attorney. My only thought on that is that it is, for lack of a better term, the district's tractor. So if we're going to have the association utilize it, that there should be some consideration paid, some base amount, to recognize the fact that they are leasing the tractor from the district. K. And I don't know what that number is. Is it a 100? Is it 500? Is it 200? You know, I I don't know. But, we can work that into any amendment that you direct that I draft.

And I guess my problem with that is, thank god we have the association. If we didn't have the association, we're not gonna be out operating the tractor. It's for the benefit of the residents. So whether it's in this pocket or that pocket, I'll defer to legal.

But, I mean, we are a governmental entity.

Mhmm.

And they are a private, not for profit corporation. So we need to make sure that there is an arm's length relationship between the two and that you are protecting the public's interest in that tractor while at the same time recognizing the benefit that the association provides.

Right. And the other thing is if we're now taking on the maintenance costs and I don't know how much it's used, but the tractor is used for other purposes as well. So I do think the arm's length relationship to be maintained is important.

Yeah. The only we're talking that the only time the tractor's been used is after a hurricane when they need to use a front end loader. Other than that, they don't.

Okay. I have a some of the people who have been asking me about how to cut the coats have asked me about the tractor. And I said, well, I think it's working just fine. And it's keeping the beach very nice. And they want to know if we could cut down on it, on the time. And I said, I don't know, but I'll ask the question. And and I I don't know the answer. They said, so well, since it's been so nice this spring or or this this fall, I'm sorry, this fall, that it's or do we really need to run it this much? We're running it. The beach looks looks just great.

I said, no. It looks just great. Wasn't look great, don't we? And so the question I have, and I guess is that I'm supposed to get an answer today from from you guys, is do you think we can cut cut back on the trash reuse or something? And I don't know the answer to that.

I I don't think you want Yeah. To cut

Look, the reason we got detractor to begin with was because we were getting such terrible service from Collier County. And what I so appreciate what Tom and his team does, not only do they rake the beach, but because Chris, I've talked to him, and their cost was more expensive when I computed the hours, substantially more for what they proposed than what we're paying for. But it's a little thing. It's the weeds around the t groins. It's the they stop and get those things, and that's what I appreciate. So a, I wouldn't cut back, and b, I get phone calls when they see a blade of a weed pop knot. And and I'm

I don't know the answer. I really don't know the answer. I don't wanna so I I just said I would ask Yeah. Today. And I

think the net is

we very satisfied with the way the beach is being maintained now. It's I think the beach is gorgeous. Best best it's ever been. And if we have a storm, it'll take some time to get that straightened out. And I know we're gonna have some storms. You know what? It doesn't have to be a hurricane. It could just be a storm. But the the the question is, for seventeen hundred hours, what you said, the the retractor is up now, $1,700?

Oh, yeah.

After five years. Yeah.

Seventeen. Yeah. 100.

I'll give up my salary here if you like. I'll give up my salary if you like.

Yeah. It takes seventeen hundred hours.

On a boat, takes ten thousand hour. A whole lot

of hours.

Ten thousand hours is 10,000 miles.

Okay.

On a boat. On a boat.

Yeah. I don't know what the correlation is.

I don't think that's exactly apples.

It sounds like the sentiment here is that we wanna maintain it sounds like the sentiment here is that we wanna maintain the current beach raking schedule.

Definitely.

And the other thing I would point out is simply raking the beach a little less is not going to significantly move the the needle in terms of the budget. The budget is really driven by major projects.

I'm very personally, I'm very satisfied with the way it's running right now.

K.

That's just my personal opinion. But I have to I was also asked to ask you guys what you thought. Think we could cut down some. I don't know the answer to that.

Well, I I I personally think there's more people that like the beach the way it is I can't hear you, John. And than people that are in descent.

Mhmm. Okay. He said the there's more people that like it the way it is than there are in dissent.

So too.

So okay. Are there any action on.

So David, can you

make can you make those amendments?

I can I think there are two items that you need to act on? One would be to extend the lease agreement to the November. Okay. K. And then the other item would be to direct, mister Zinkin and myself to work with the association to bring back an amendment to the board in November.

Okay. You will make what what about the dollar amount? Are you gonna negotiate that out?

Well, the dollar amount that they proposed for the lease for the lease.

Oh,

I I think that would be part of the negotiation. We would talk about that bring it back.

Negotiate that?

Yeah. Whether it's a 100, whether it's 500, we'll we'll talk about that and bring it back.

Based on what David said, first, we need a motion to extend the current lease agreement to the November until we're able to get a new lease agreement in place.

How about through the December? Because we're in October now. Okay. And that gives us two more meetings.

So if someone could make a motion to that effect?

I make a motion. To? Extend the lease till December the December.

Okay.

For them to negotiate, the cost for the lease.

And any other changes, amendments to the lease? Okay. We have a second? A second. K. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. The motion passes unanimously. Okay. The last item on the agenda is item seven b, management plan from Mohammed De Bees, Hamasin, Moore.

I think this item was placed on the agenda ahead of some more recent development as we were trying to put together a management plan with the county. But as I indicated earlier, it's evolving into a two phased approach where we set up this management plan with the county as part of an island wide management plan that is overseen by the state as well. So with that in mind, the current effort to set up a management plan that define our cooperation and our coordination with the county is an integral part of a bigger plan. And in having that end goal in mind, the current management plan fits well in the sense that the current effort that has been undertaken by the district over a course of thirty years sets up very well for the Northern part of Marco Island with a lot of institutional knowledge studies and things that are helpful for things in the county's jurisdiction as well as things in the city's jurisdiction and the recent success in getting cooperation from the county in managing and funding items for Tiger Tail and Sand Dollar Island is a good launch pad to what we need to achieve moving forward.

And in that, we have an outline for the management plan that is intended for coordination with the county on who does what for the management of a system that sits on the boundaries of Hideaway, but it also not only protects Hideaway, it provides an asset for the county recreational and environmental part of the park as well as the overall resiliency for Marco Island. And that's in the outline that you see in what is proposed as

Can I just before you go on, could you just clarify, you made a statement, who does what? What does that actually mean?

So if you look at the second slide, in this system that includes hideaway, we have our primary goal is the protection and the recreational benefit and environmental benefits on hideaway property. That's what's in your district main interest. And then you have Sand Dollar Island and Tiger Tail Lagoon that are right outside your boundaries, but it does affect your properties to a great extent. But those are state and county serves state and county interest as well. Then you have things like the navigation channel that the in the interest of the city and the county.

Then you have Collier Creek that is managed by the county, but it's also on your boundary. So in this exhibit that you see here, you have all the current permitted sand sources and sand disposal areas with the of the three different permits or the three different authorizations that are in the system. And having the right hand know what the left hand is doing, so for us coordinating with the county and what they're doing to Collier Creek and instead of hauling the sand and dumping it offshore, they should put it on Sand Dollar Island, That's part of what is now a fragmented approach being all put together so that when the county manages Collier Creek, they need to consider the objectives of hideaway and they need to consider the objectives of the city. That's what the whole purpose of having a management plan that both sides agree on.

Correct. I guess I'm trying to to to get into on our permit. The county is on our permit.

Yes. The county is on your Hideaway Beach permit. The county is not on your permit on the Tiger Tail, San Dollar Island permit. And even if they are on your permit, that means they can go ahead and bid a project and do that project and you may or may not be aware of what they're doing and whether that contradicts with something else. Or for the most benign thing, they schedule a project at the same time you're scheduling a project and you both hire two different contractors and eventually pay double mobilization had you not coordinated and put the two projects together, if you have projects at the same time.

So the idea here is even if you have a co permittee in your permit, you need to have coordination and understanding of who's doing what. And the same thing with the data collection because we're doing monitoring of Collier Creek, and they're doing monitoring of Collier Creek. So that's double the surveying effort, but that it's been done independently.

It might be helpful, John, to understand the genesis of the idea of a management plan actually came from the county manager. As we were going forward with requests for county support to do different things Well, I get that. She asked that we put an overall management plan in place for this area so that we have a clear understanding of how we're going to work together and who's responsible for what. And now, based on the work that Mohammed has done with the state, the state is interested in being engaged on this subject as well. And there's been a you may not be aware, but there's been a lot of pressure point on the navigation channel going in and out of the Marco River, and that relates to all of this.

So he's trying to bring all of these these parts of the government together as well as all the elements that are in our geography here, and have a more clearly defined plan of who's responsible for what and how we can work together. Beyond that, we don't have answers at this point, but that's what this effort is about.

My point is, how could you get the county in

to the situation with us that we don't have to be going back to ask them for funding our projects after we already had done it?

I don't think that is it's not that simple unless they own the whole process, which they clearly do not want to. Instance

Being So part of a permit really means nothing then.

No, no. For instance, the permit requires management, monitoring, compliance with permit conditions like the escarpments. The county made it clear that they don't want to take responsibility for that. However, they seem more amenable to looking at requests for reimbursements to fund items that they deem eligible for tourist development dollars. And that is until two years ago was unprecedented to have that kind of two way street with the county for things that serves the interest of both parties.

And it is credit to the county manager who sat in very few meetings, but they were meaningful meetings with the City Manager and came to consensus on how beneficial it would be to have things that the county cannot deal with the small detail of it because they don't have the institutional knowledge and their system will not be as responsive to post storm recovery and maintenance as the lean city system and the district ability to front prompt responses post storms. And then when it's eligible, you come back to the county for reimbursement. The county is a much bigger machine and it's a much bigger procurement. And there let's say, if they if you want to put a project for bid through the county, it needs to be in nine months before you plan. For the city, that is three to four months.

If the scale of the work is within the allowable amount for the county or the city vendors, that can go down to thirty days. So these kind of tools allows you to move quickly in things that cannot wait for a nine months to a year. So the county procurement system is more set for you know, larger projects and then when it comes to emergencies, it may or may not be suitable for a system that they did not used to manage in the past, because it's not ingrained in their system. And to get it ingrained in the system, they understand that we know the ins and outs of this more, so they are welcoming being a participant with a lot of asterisks. So the way we had an on single request kind of request by request plan, like the current plan, with every request we go in front of them, if we have a management plan that both sides agree on and it gets blessed by both side, it will make our for our future requests a lot easier because every time we go in front of the CAC, we litigate things that we thought has already been established because you get different set of Board members, certain pressure from informed or uninformed public opinions, and you have to relitigate everything over and over again, While ingrained management plans within the county are basically just they go through the consent agendas because they have the precedent and they don't have to go on an item or a year per year requests.

So having a plan and having both sides agree gives us a benefit. And then in the long term, if we can integrate that as a Littoral cell wide, which fits into the county's kind of pilot project for beach management agreements with littoral cells, if the city makes the initiative to have a BMA or a beach management agreement that includes the stakeholders and the state, you have kind of a more formal management agreement that also expedites permitting and authorization to do work that would be more helpful and it could also qualify for some state funding.

I agree whatever you say on this matter. I only brought it up because we're talking about the budget We're talking about the money in our budget that we really can't do an actual budget until we straighten out or understand this whole system with the county.

Right.

And I think I had these discussions with Paul in past years where we were saying you need to have a certain buffer in your budget for emergencies, whether that's set as $1,000,000 or $05,000,000 whatever it is. And then you will always pursue external funding for things that qualify for external funding. We've gone to a great length to bring the county on board and we're very grateful to the County support. And I can say, when Justin made his presentation, the County Manager was on queue and everything that she mentioned in the meeting that supports our ask. So being where we are, where we were few years back, I think it is a win win for both for the a win win win for the district, for the city and for the county.

And we need to kind of harness that and make sure that it is beyond the current administrations to an agreement that is that makes the district's future coordination and the city's future requests more automatic than having to climb uphill every time.

I suspect we're running low on time here. So I don't know if there's anything else you have to cover, Mohamed?

No. So with this, the as I mentioned, and we'll cover some of that tomorrow, the stakeholders of our system is not just the district, not just the city and the county. We have to acknowledge that there are interests for navigation, and we have to acknowledge that, that makes us add to the critical wildlife area and DEP, the Army Corps and the Coast Guard. And we will discuss tomorrow the long term strategic interests into bringing the state into a beach management agreement for the city of Marco that will also include the elements in our part of Marco. Okay. And that's all.

All right. Thank you very much, The next item is staff communications. Justin, did you have anything you wanted to cover today?

Nothing that has not already been discussed.

Okay. Alright. I did wanna at at this point, it's the next item is city council communication. I don't see any city council members present. The next item is public comment. Anyone anyone want to make a comment that's in the room? Do we have anyone online? No? Okay. I just wanted to before we close here, just once again thank Justin for his work this summer in going forward for the city and for us in getting the reimbursement for our hurricane repairs.

I we really appreciate what he did. And I also wanna thank the county and the board of county commissioners for being open to supporting us in getting the reimbursement for the hurricane repairs, which we really needed and that were, you know, an example here on Marco of what was happening up and down the coast and in Naples as well. But so a terrific thank you to the county commission for supporting our request. The next meeting is tomorrow is our workshop, which is our long term strategies workshop where Phyllis and Michael and Mohamed will be presenting the result of their work this summer. That begins at 9AM.

So it's a morning meeting tomorrow. So we look forward to seeing you there. And then our next regular board meeting is on November 20 at 01:30PM. And I think at that meeting, Tara will be giving us the schedule for the meetings for 2026. Does anyone have any items for want to propose for the next next meeting's agenda in November that we haven't already discussed?

I don't.

No? Okay. And I any other committee communications? Does anyone have anything else they wanna add? Okay. Then I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

Make a motion to adjourn.

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Motion passes.