City Council - Regular Meeting

minute. All right, if everyone would like to have a seat, we'll get the meeting started. Call call the meeting to order. If you would all stand for the pledge, please and a moment of silence.

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nationy andice for all.

All right, you may all be seated. Thank you. Welcome everyone to tonight's meeting of the city council members. Members of the public are welcome to speak on any topic whether it is on tonight's agenda or any issue that is important to you. Each person that wishes to speak should complete a speaker card which are located near the glass doors and submit it ahead of time to the city clerk. After you have been recognized to speak, please use the microphone at the podium and clearly state your name and address for the record. Please address all your comments to the city council rather than individual members. Direct all questions to the chair. Speakers will be given up to three minutes to speak. All right. Our first item is new employee introductions. Chief Vesta.

Thank you, mayor, deputy mayor, members of council. Uh pleased tonight to introduce uh five new members of the police department. Um so uh I'll start I'll start from the left. So Ray Riveros uh he joined us uh he's currently in field training phase with a with an FTO. Uh projected release would be in January. Uh doing a great job. He uh has uh previously he was a school teacher and counselor and also has some uh technical analysis uh work that he did with the FBI in the past. So um doing a great job out there and looking at January release as a solo patrol officer. Next to him is Josh Emil. Uh Josh uh joined us in um January of 2025, completed the academy in June and uh he did his field training and he is now released solo on his own. So he he grew up in the Melbourne area and uh he also has family that uh previous they're current law enforcement. So it it runs in the family there. So next to him is El Bage. Uh L uh also is currently in field training with a field training officer with uh projected to be on his own in January. Uh L has a variety of career experiences. He also served as a federal air marshal for a period of time too. So glad to have his experience and uh expertise on on the street. Uh Scott Chrissy uh you've seen him before. He joined us as a PSA uh over a year ago. um we thought he had potential to be a good police officer and he really blossomed as a PSA and we gave him an opportunity as police officer and uh he completed the academy and he's currently uh in field training again also projected to be out um in January on his own. And then finally is uh Stephen King. So Steve joins us uh he's in his encore career. He uh he's he served with the BCFR as a paramedic uh for for many years and he's served also as a reserve

for our agency volunteering hours since 2016. Um so we uh he he completed the academy and left the fire service and now he is full-time with us and he's also been released on his own to solo patrol. So uh five wonderful additions to the agency. Uh we're glad to we don't always bring them up right when they first get hired because you know it's a long process to get through the academy and through training. Um but then when they approach the end of that we want to make sure and introduce them to you. So I'll pass the mic down if they could all just say quick hello if you don't mind.

All righty. Officer Riveros, thank you for having me. Um just real real quickly I just want to thank you all uh just for this opportunity. Chief, thank you so much. um coming from Tampa, Florida. Really excited to serve the community here in city West Melbourne. And I guess I'll see you all out on the road. Thanks, Officer Moltz. It's nice to meet you guys. Um I appreciate you guys for giving me this opportunity. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to give back to a community that I grew up in and around.

Officer Elbertage, uh thank you to everybody. Thank you to the chief. excited for this great opportunity for me and my family and I'm really glad to be here with these guys. Uh this is a true honor. Thank you very much. Officer Chrissy, growing up in Palm Bay, I spent a lot of time in West Plane at Roads Park. So, it was fun to be PSA first and I was really grateful for the opportunity to become a police officer and serve this community. I appreciate the opportunity that you've extended to me and that the city has extended to me as well. Thank you.

Uh Officer King, um Chief is is correct. Um I spent 26 years with BCFR. Uh served as a medic on the SRT team uh here since uh 2016. Um was time to go from BCFR and found a new career. Um I appreciate the opportunity. It took a long time to get here, but we're here and we retire from another agency. Thank you everyone.

Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to all of you. All right. Thank you very much. All right. Our next item, there are no modifications to the agenda. We'll open public hearings. Uh are there any speaker cards on this next item? No. And this will um require a um this is a quasi judicial. Are there any disclosures? Um

yes, mayor. Thank you very much for the opportunity to uh remind you that uh whenever we have a quasi judicial hearing, you are required to publicly disclose any communications you've had outside of uh those with city staff and the materials that are presented to you. Um so if you have any uh public disclosures to make, excuse me, public disclosures to make, uh please do so at this time. No one. Okay. All right. We'll go with the first thing then. Christie, thank you. Amend the first um first the future land use designation. There you go.

Okay. As as we've done in the past, we're going to present agenda items 5A and 5B together. Um, but we ask that you make separate motions. Each action is an ordinance. So, that's why you have to make a separate motion on each of the ordinances so that they can stand on their own. Um, and I wanted to apologize. I realize that there are several typos of calling Heritage Oaks Boulevard Heritage Lakes Boulevard. I don't know why that that happened, but we'll correct it for the second reading. All right. So, the city attorney already went through the quasi judicial disclosures. Um, and then I wanted to let you know that we do have the applicant here. They do want to get up and answer any questions that you might have about this project. So the proposal is that um CEG Jake Wise is representing a company SNA Mitten Road Corporation that owns it and there is a buyer called Ocean Crest that wants to build a nursing home. Um the site is six a little bit over six acres and that's at the northeast corner of Mitten Road in Heritage Oaks Boulevard. So that's the aerial on the aerial that shows up in sort of that yellow rectangle. Um as many of you know when you drive by it's vacant. Um the future land use for that vacant property as it stands now is commercial and the zoning currently is commercial parkway. So what they're requesting under agenda item 5A with a staff report is to go from that commercial future land use and that's indicated on the lefth hand side of the screen to that grayish color that shows up on the right hand side of the screen. So a good indication that you need to go through an amendment is if you're changing colors on the map um which they would need to do in order to have this nursing home. So the nursing home by itself is not allowed in the

commercial future land use designation. Um, as we do with all projects that come before staff and and you all the planning and zoning board, we do some analysis and some of that involves the surrounding future land use. Um, we do have some institutional uses to the north. We have some potential commercial uses to the south even though it's not developed and you do have some uh residential to the east. The comprehensive plan review also um has us analyzing the maximum infrastructure and service impacts and who's who's going to be providing those services and water and sewer we say is us. The drainage, it's the on-site uh storage of the the run off from the the roofs and the sidewalks and the pavement etc. And solid waste is waste management. Um this photo is just to show you that vacant field. So that's looking north from Heritage Oaks. Another thing to consider is that under commercial future land use, you could have potentially sort of a a small shopping center of 133,000 square feet. Even though under institutional, you could have slightly more square footage in terms of a footprint of a building. Um you really if you look at the types of uses you could have on a commercial versus institutional there would more than likely be a decrease in the trips. ADT stands for average uh daily trips. The public safety um sometimes this is sort of part of the analysis is that it fire protection continues to be BVAR county and police protection would be obviously West Melbourne. We look at something called our goals, objectives, and policies. And so that acronym FLU stands for future land use. So that's the chapter out of the comprehensive plan. And there's specifications for each of the land uses. In this case, the institutional.

And we have our commentary about how, you know, this being designated institutional and then having a use to serve, you know, sort of the the elderly population or those who, you know, have other reasons to be in that facility. um is consistent with the comprehensive plan. We talked a little bit about public facilities. That's also sort of a measure that we have from the comprehensive plan about any time somebody wants to change a land use. And then there is an an entire chapter. We've gone over this before, but many of the citizens don't realize that all cities have a private property rights element or chapter in their comprehensive plan that the state of Florida made everybody do, not just us. There's 400 local governments. There's 67 counties. Everybody has just about the same verbiage. Um, what it basically says is that private property owners have a right to develop their property under whatever that designation is. They don't necessarily have a right for, you know, a change to it. That's sort of an action that the governing body has to make. Um, in this case, from staff's perspective, um, this is a good change to go from commercial to institutional. and that's why we we have a recommendation in favor of it. All right, so now we switch to agenda item 5B, which is the reasonzoning. And I know a lot of people can relate to that a lot more than they can the future land use which really is sort of the bigger picture of the city. But we've broken this out into two parts because the sort of uniqueness of that P1 zoning district is that it can be applied throughout the city and it doesn't necessarily have to be next to other P1 zoning districts, although it tends to work better when it does. Um, and so that's what some of this analysis is and that you have to have a concept plan. So P1, we're always going to come to you with something that is being proposed and a concept plan of what that is. So

the same analysis that they're going from commercial parkway potentially that shows up on the left hand side of the screen to that grayish uh P1 zoning on the right hand side of the screen. Um I'm not going to go through this um other than to say that you know this proposed nursing home provides a transition from the more intense sort of commercial uses to the south and west and it's consistent with the adjacent uses and buildings. The applicant's request is for the development of an 83,724 square foot facility 117 beds maximum 30 feet in height. So it's one story. Um the proposed F stands for floor area ratio. That's sort of a a measure of how much building gets put on that site and it it's not very big. That's why we make a point of saying that it complies with the zoning code. A nursing home is a a listed permitted use in that P1 zoning district. So there's nothing, you know, strange or odd about that either. And it it does continue sort of that civic core feeling along Mitten Road that we have in that area. Um and as we said, if you all did change that future land use from commercial to institutional, U P1 obviously is a zoning that would fit with that category. And from here, you know, really the thing to know is that what we we believe is that the conceptual site plan's consistent with the requirements of the P1 zoning district. Um, I show this bench because that's part of what we try to do in that town center area is to have it and it be function better for the pedestrians and citizens who are not in vehicles. All right. So, this gets to the part B part. So, this is the portion that I talked to you all about the concept plan. And you have that page that's in color that shows up on the screen, plus

four other pages that are all part of the concept plan. We don't bring this to the planning and zoning board or to city council until all our questions have been asked. We feel that the code has been met for what they, you know, have put together. And so, what you see here is the green and I'll I'll let the engineer explain about that. That's sort of the open space and then sort of that light grayish color uh with little lines are the parking spaces but there's you know quite a bit of building that shows up sort of like a cream color um on that screen and then you've got a bluish area which is the existing retention pond. So this pond was created years ago. It was there for when this property gets developed. Um, and then there currently is sort of like an emergency driveway. And I'm going to try to use the cursor to point this out. Um, that there is sort of a a path to get to the back of was in Spirit is now it's gone back to your life to get to their back of house sort of area. And with this proposal, that would be a paved area instead of just being emergency access. and they would have their shared access with the your life or what was in Spiritus um up at Mitten Road that would not change and then they would have this access. Um the only thing that they have to do with this access is to line it up with the driveway called Boutton Way to the south. Um but other than that, it's not really a new connection. All right. So, I'm not going to read through all these bullet points, but I do want to point out that, you know, they they are going to have the the perimeter landscaping. Um there is a solid fence along the eastern property line and that's the Woodfield um homeowners association fence. So, that already exists. Um we also put that the planning and zoning board had wanted to

know a little bit more about that. Staff looked into it. the HOA is required to maintain that fence. Um but what we said is sort of a proviso is if for some reason that HOA no longer you know wants to have that fence changes their declarations and covenants etc. institutional next to residential does have to put up a fence. So in that case we would there is no sort of like their grandfathered in is what I'm trying to say. They would be required to have the fence. Um so that's sort of the takeaway from that. Um, but the facility itself, that building is going to be 223 feet away from the nearest residential. That's not right next door to it either. Uh, we talked about the two driveways and they do have the covered canopy entry with pavers and that provides an accent um to the facility. This is also an image or several images that are in the staff report where we talk about that this is what they have provided us in terms of the appearance of the building. Um, and even though it looks sort of complicated, it's it's that way on purpose, you know, using multiple gables. That's what's used with the residential behind it. So, it does fit in. Um, you do have the fake dormers. You have, you know, the pleasant colors and they do give some relief instead of just having one big sort of block wall. Um, they do have relief to it so that, you know, visually it it's more pleasing. So, in conclusion, let's go back to the future land use. So, this is agenda item 5A. Um, that's where the planning and zoning board held their public hearing last Wednesday and they made a recommendation that city council should um approve the first reading of ordinance 2025 um which allows us to send the state this feature land use map change from the commercial to the institutional.

And then I will talk about 5B. And in 5B we ask for two sort of sub motions. One is to the planning zoning board again recommended that you all approve the first reading board. It's number 2025-26 reszoning the site. And then part B is to approve the initial site plan. So understanding that if for some reason ocean crust goes away and it's going to be a completely different use, they have to come back through the planning and zoning board and they have to come back to council because that's how important the concept plan is. It goes handinhand with it. And like I said, the applicant is here if you'd like to ask any questions of them. Um if the city attorney could help us with the title of the two ordinances.

Thank you, mayor. and I'll read both of them in turn uh before I turn it over to the uh applicants. The first one is ordinance number 202525, an ordinance of the city of West Melbourne, Vard County, Florida, amending the future land use map of the cons comprehensive plan to change the future land use on a parcel of land totaling 6.12 plus or minus acres located approximately at the northeast corner of the intersection of Mitten Road and Heritage Oaks Boulevard as more fully described herein from City of West Melbourne Commercial to City of West Melbourne Institutional providing an effective date. And the second ordinance is 202526, an ordinance of the city of West Melbourne, Vard County, Florida, reszoning a 6.12 plus or minus acre parcel of land generally located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Mitten Road and Heritage Oaks Boulevard and as more fully described here in from City of West Melbourne commercialway with TCO Town Center overlay to in P1 institutional providing an effective date. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Fus, do you want to ask your question now before we have the applicant? Christian with institutional as opposed to commercial how's that affect the parking got like 90 some spots now is that some is that right

yeah that what they have shown with their concept plan was 93 parking spaces it's not quite double but it's almost double what they would be required um that really doesn't have to do with the zoning that has to do with the use so each use like for example if you have retail you have a certain amount of parking you have to have per every 250 square feet. If you have um industrial, it's a different amount. If you have this type of institutional, it's a different amount. If you had a school so they they more than adequately comply with that.

Is is the plan it's just concept correct? I mean, they're showing two handicap spots. It seems like that's very low compared to what the facilities You're right because really the ratio for handicap spots is one parking space for every 25. So if they're not showing enough, we absolutely will make them have the right amount. I only see two on the on the Yeah. And that's something that I would ask their civil engineer to come up that if that's not marked well enough, then we'll get that change before it comes back to you for second reading. Can you explain the fence a little bit more to me? It seems a little strange on who whose property is defense on and

defense is actually on the shared property line. So, if you can uh look at your screen and see sort of this pinkish color here um that defines uh the existing 6-ft tall wood opaque fence that is a shared property line between the residence to the east and this property. What kind of conditions it in? The fence I believe is pretty good. I we've gone by there before and it looks like it it's fine. Just seems strange that just seems strange that we would require it. Oh, if they ever decide they don't want it anymore, you all got to pay for it. It just why not just do it right from the door and

Well, it it's a code requirement in the zoning code to have a buffer between institutional and residential. So it wouldn't matter, you know, whatever institutional it is or commercial, you would always have to have that buffer. So in rather than having two sets of fences, that that was how we kind of remedied that. We just changed the responsibility to if it's their responsibility, just make it from that day one. Wouldn't that take care of issues down the road?

I think that's an option. Um, our challenge was we we certainly know the difficulty of a fence next to a fence. No, I'm not suggesting that. So, we were I guess our perspective was that since there is an existing fence doesn't seem to be any issues with the fence. We have them do the landscaping but not make them not require them to put in the fence. I think you're raising an interesting question if I believe I understand the question correctly which is why not have the HOA take down their fence and have this

even take down maybe maybe they the institution assumes the responsibility of that fence and then if it ever deteriorates it's their responsibility not leave if it's the institutional's responsibility to have a fence there why not just make it that way I think one yeah one thing to consider consider is that the fence for the HOA goes past this property boundary. It does. So, yeah, it does. I I guess so. Then you you'd be requiring them to like have ownership of one section of this fence. Has anybody talked to the homeowners association to get a feel for how they feel about it?

No. But one thing I would like to ask the city attorney is that there is a specific declaration in their covenants that talks about maintenance of that fence. So besides sort of just the changing of who maintains it, wouldn't the HOA have to do something to their documents, too? Yeah. I mean, I don't think the council could um mandate that it becomes the their fence without the uh the HOA agreeing to it. And I'm not sure if the HOA board could agree to it if it's in their covenants. That may require a vote of their membership as well to amend the covenants. So it may be a kind of complicated process to do that. Um

I was just curious if anybody talked to the HOA because I know if it was my HOA, the first thing I'd do is pass on the responsibility to somebody else to maintain it. Measures. That's certainly something we can do is reach out to them. Yeah. I I think we have the bases covered. If if that fence were to go away in the future for whatever reason, then the current property owner that's proposed here would then be required to put up a fence for their property. But but just for the width of their property.

Just didn't know if we were talking with each other and talking to the HOA to see uh you know, we're we're telling them if they don't want it, it could be somebody else's problem in this document. I just didn't know if they knew that or not. Anyhow, um I did have one more question on the benches. Is um is that going to is the pond going to Well, might be for the for the engineer, but is the pond going to be fenced being a nursing home? Is it going to be

The pond is already fenced. Um again, I know on this it it's kind of hard to see. Um, and so what I was suggesting, I don't know if you can see the cursor here. There's this is this really light colored gray line is that existing chain link fence. So if each of these parking spaces 10t wide, you know, bench is about six feet in length. It could be here or, you know, it could be somewhere on either side of this. And that's very similar to you can't see the your life, but remember there's a sidewalk that connects from Mitten Road to the front of your life. They also have a bench along there. So, it was just sort of giving them an option.

By reading it, it looked like it they were going to be placed like around the retention pond and it just seemed like that would No, right at the edge. It would be more at the edge. Along the roadside. Yes, along the roadside, but not in the city rightway. Still on their property there. It doesn't look like there's a lot of area, but there's probably about 10 feet, I would think, that they could squeeze something in there. Maybe it'd be better to squeeze it in near the front of the building instead of the back of the building because

Well, they will have benches here. What I was trying to do is get an additional bench, you know, either here or here. Um, but certainly if you all have a preference that you really just want to see the benches here and that if somebody, you know, goes from this part of the sidewalk on site to Heritage Oaks, there's no

concerned that we were forcing them to have them north to south there on on the the retention pond there. I didn't realize it was along the roadside. So, uh, I feel better about it being there than, you know, because that looks like an area that's going to be for deliveries and stuff back there, and I probably don't want a whole lot of foot traffic back there any So, um, thank you. Thank you. Is that Miss Are you finished, Mr. Fus? Yes. Sorry, Miss Folultz. Followed by Miss Adams.

Yeah. I just had a question. There's a lot of parking spots here and if it's a nursing home, most of those people are not going to be driving. So, the reason for the parking spots is for employees.

It's a combination of employees and visitors. Yeah. Yeah. Let me introduce myself first. Thank you. uh Jake Weise, civil engineer for the project and happened to be the civil engineer for the your life project to the north and all these discussion points were discussed five or six years ago as well. So happy to dive into it as much as you'd like to. Uh with respect to the parking, yes, it is uh for employees but also for visitors especially around the holidays. Um they have more visitors with their family members. Okay. Because it just is like why? But then our if our code demands so many parking spots about half of what they

okay they have they have included quite a bit. Our code doesn't penalize them for almost doubling the amount of parking. Um what they we do sort of have a requirement though because we don't we're trying to not have as much parking that those parking spaces are going to have to be 11t wide. And I have not had that discussion yet with the civil engineer. So that may change it. So if they're showing was it 93 spaces, Jake? So let's say that instead of 93 spaces, it ends up being 80 spaces, that's fine. They can decrease. They just can't ever increase.

Okay. And then one last question. That emergency exit up there at the top there. Um does does that go on to Mitten Road? Is that where that goes to or is that because I can't tell with this right now? Mitten Road is here at the front and so this emergency Well, it's it's not just emergency. It would be um for what I call the back of house. So, the dumpsters are are in the back there. The electrical rooms are in the back here. So, it would be for whatever services have to come in through the back. And this only collect connects to the your life um assisted living facility. It does not continue on to Henry.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Miss Adams, you have something for um for Miss Fischer and then we'll listen to Mr. Weiss's presentation. All right. Go ahead, please.

Thank you. Uh I also had very similar questions and concerns in terms of the parking. Um, but I would think even if we're making the parking spots wider and the number drops to something like 80, you're still looking at the same amount of asphalt part, you know, paving that's over the same green space. And it seems like looking at your design, you know, you guys are highlighting the green spaces in the middle. It seems to be something that I I'm assuming your residents would like, right? Green space I think makes people happy. Um, so I would at least from one person's perspective if how many staff are going to be employed at this location?

Uh, well, we have today with us the architect for the project and this is an extremely experienced um developer and architect that specializes in these types of facilities. Um, so they uh have done dozens of these. They know what they need. they know what their peak days are with um residents and visitors. Um and in order to uh be able to accommodate those peak days is the reason we have as many as we do.

Right. But I'm hearing what you're saying. We've got staff and we've got visitors, but as you shared with to Miss Faultz, that the highest number of visitors come during the holidays. I don't know how many days you consider holiday visitations. Um, but looking at those days compared to your average run-of-the-mill week, are the majority of these spots going to be then taken by staff?

No. Um, the exact number of staff members? I don't know. Hi, I'm Ken Tobin, architect for the project uh 2401 uh West Bay Drive, Largo, Florida for architectural concepts. So, I'm happy to answer your questions. We've actually done hundreds of these all over the country. Uh the parking ratio real quick runs about here it's three spaces per bed. So, we have 117 beds. were only required to have 30 spaces approximately. Correct. I think it's a little more than that, but yeah, it's in that ballpark.

Yeah, it's in the ballpark.

Oh, you've got it. Okay. Uh staffing. Uh typical shift runs about 30 30 people. So that's administrative and nurses and those individuals that take care of everybody. What happens? What we find in all these facilities, the the the toughest thing to do in the parking is the crossover is shift change because we've got nurses coming in, nurses going out. So, we've got to accommodate all of that. And so, we've we've found out in practice that having more than the minimum is better for us in three shift changes during the day. So even though there's only 30 at one time, that one time in the afternoon when we shift between evening or afternoon and evening, I've got twice as many people trying to trying to park in here.

And both of you worked on the your life project that's next door. I did not we did not work on your your life. Okay. So I I would assume I can't ask then does the same equation for parking spots apply to that project created? It doesn't necessarily apply to alfs. It applies to skilled nursing. Okay. ALF has a different ratio that but it's it's close, but it's not exactly

because my concern is I drive past this location. I live in Heritage Oak, so I'm very familiar with not only the property, but the people that drive by there on a regular basis, the location that is just to your north, uh, is their parking is pretty empty, uh, for a good portion of the day. Again, it's probably those shift changes where I notice more of those cars. Um, but even during holidays, we're not seeing heavy traffic use. And so, I would just hate to see large empty parking lots for a majority of the time. So, I don't know if there's flexibility there in trying to recapture some of the green space if at all. Just expressing my desire of what may work better for that location. Uh, which one of these locations looking at Heritage Oaks and looking at Minton is considered I know the main entrance is facing Minton, but where do you expect people whether they're visitors, staff, you know, whatever that looks like. Where do you expect that main entrance uh in terms of traffic flow to be entering and exiting? Okay. So, it's it's majority on Minton, but the majority of your parking is then on that south side. Just because from a realistic perspective, I'm picturing and I know that staff entrance is on the south side. If you are staff or visitor parking in that near that staff entrance section, I don't know the likelihood of you then exiting through the front of the location connecting through the your life exit onto Minton versus coming out to Heritage Oaks to access that light. And that access has plenty of traffic right now just like Minton does. So, it's a no-win either way.

Well, exactly. Uh Because the Minton entrance and exit is a right in ride out. There's no median cut there. Those staff members that have to go south are going to come through Heritage and come around and go to that intersection to go south. Most of them I'm I'm guessing. So we've seen rights, right outs and people somehow make less. It's not safe and it's concerning. I think it's It's a full median. So, they gonna have to go for a wheel.

Checking. Uh, those were all of my notes, but I had also noted just as Mr. did with the handicap parking spaces did not seem to be equal for what we're looking for. Four still seems low if we're looking at a total of 90. Correct. It meets the requirements. You only need to have one space for every 25 regular parking spaces. Wow. But keeping in mind the use I mean I know this just right in my opinion but the use looking at four handicap parking spaces seems low. Is there a reason it's not higher even though it's met the requirement? We typically park at the required requirements.

So if I can make a suggestion um I know this is sort of on the fly but you have a few parallel spaces right here. Is it possible that we add two more handicap spaces by converting these parallel which are going to use be used as drop off? Anyways, parallel spaces are require a much wider um space than a normal parallel parking space. So, it would not fit in that location. It'd be better to one of the 90 degrees of these areas. Okay.

Yeah. That I think that's something we can work with them on. I think you've heard the message from council on that. Um, you know, in terms of the parking, if this were a church, for example, churches are allowed to have up to half of their lot in a stabilized grass sort of condition. What many religious organizations find out is that their visitors or parishioners do not like the grass parking when it's raining. So, um, it it's something that if you all would like, we can, you know, talk to them about having some of their parking and not in a completely paved sort of placement that it is now. But that's something we would have to sort of brainstorm a little bit more with the city manager and the city engineer. Um, we were okay with the 97 spaces. They're required by code to have 59. Um, You're you're right. It's not optimal to have more. I understand what they're saying. One of the things that I've heard off of Greenboro is that things do get hectic in those parking lots when there are shift changes.

And sorry, I thought I had hit all my questions. Mayor, I have one other u. If you're looking for Minton to be the main entrance exit for this facility, especially with the connection piece, why is the majority of the parking then on the south side and not flipped to the be on the north side where that connection right is?

So, the reason we did that was to push the building as far uh to the west as we could to create the largest buffer with the residential to the east. We fully anticipate uh the Mitten Road to be our main entrance. The Traffic coming from the south will mostly utilize it. Traffic though leaving the site heading south will most likely go to Heritage Oaks and try to utilize a traffic signal. So it is going to be a mix of traffic to both. Um but we think the majority of the visitors will come to the Mitten Road and utilize the the front to go through the front door and park as close as they can. The employees would all park towards uh the south side near the employee entrance. So that's why we see the mix code minimum parking is 59 spaces and with a trans with a changeover of 30 overlapping we would need 60 spaces just for the employees. So that's why we're at a slightly higher ratio and again we're happy to work with staff to uh reduce that or do some stabilized green spaces or something like that. Uh, we have this laser.

Works. There he goes. Oops. Okay. Anyway, so there's Thank you, Chrissy. So, there's a row of parking closest to um Heritage Oaks Boulevard, and that would probably be the first spaces we would uh make more green. Also, something that uh is important factor is that heritage uh the subdivision actually maintains and controls I guess. So there is a large green space here which is along our southern border right where the sign is just south of the sign.

There's a sign and then then the neighborhood has a very large landscaping buffer there that is uh part of the original plat. So there's a big green space there that's not shown our site plan because actually off of the property here. So, there is a lot of opportunity there and there's some some trees that are already existing there as well. So, it's a much bigger green space than what it just looks like on the site today. Also, the fence that you were asking about earlier, uh, this original plat has a 20 foot wide landscape buffer and and easement that the fence is actually a part of. And that fence, I've been working on this since 2004. And every time I've been out here, that fence has always been well maintained. It's consistent across the back of this property and it's consistent across the your life. When we permitted your life five or six years ago, had the exact same discussion and uh it was agreed that it would be better to keep that existing fence that's been there and it has been so well maintained by the HO HOA over the years, but could be a different HOA now. So happy to talk to them or the city of course staff can do so and see if they might have changed their preferences, but that was something that did come up before. We do have a 4ft protective fence already around the stormwater pond. Um, and that's just for the safety of any traveling residents of our project or any residents of West Bel that might be walking here and enjoying our new benches in the future. Um, so did that answer all your questions? Yes. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Mayor.

Mr. Francis, thank you, Mayor. Just a couple followup things. Um, is there any intersect intersection improvements being done or required uh for the Heritage or or Mitten?

Uh, no. When we first developed this site for the your life, we actually master plan both sites. We put in the master storm water. We put in the master utilities. We did a shared driveway. We did the right del lane off Mitten Road. We did the shared driveway access along the backside of this one that Christie pointed out earlier. And so all of that was master planned so that we would have those improvements already made. So the owner of the project uh helped pay for a lot of those improvements even though he wasn't the developer for your life. And you talked about the your life parking ratio. Um so that's a different type of facility. That's a memory care facility and they have different needs for parking. Uh your life is also uh has a lot of facilities all across the state of Florida and beyond. And so they knew what they needed for uh theirs. But this is a different type of assisted living nursing home.

Let me stick on the road here a second. Um and this being a new project uh you know Mr. Bro, I know there was some talk on maybe three laning that at one point. Is that there and trying to improve the is that something that we've looked at? The developer from the last project on the south lot had said that he's since he's not required to make the changes. Uh he would not be interested in working with the city to make those improvements unless the traffic counts came that he would have to this is a new development, right? Well, yeah. during the process of

I don't think you answered um Council Member Frampus's question. Very good. Maybe Christy or or um or somebody from the development team. Do you want to focus on that that main entrance? I the the Mitten entrance. I think I think what he was trying to explain the question was is there any road improvements that are needed on Mitten? it it has an existing turn lane. I'm more concerned about Heritage than I am.

Yeah. But so I just want to clarify that they that that is a shared entrance. If you drive there now, it's certainly offc center to the existing facility because it was meant to be the entrance for both what you know what whatever projects came here. As far as the Heritage Oaks, I don't believe there's any improvement of like a left turn lane to get into this development because it's a single lane road. Is that correct? That's correct. Yeah. We weren't proposing and weren't Is there anything that the city can do to I approve that? I mean,

we we could double check with the traffic engineer who reviewed this for us, but their their volume even at shift change is going to be pretty low to because it's not retail, it's not a consistent, it's going to be a pretty low number to warrant a left turn lane. We are um happy to work with Christy Fischer, our planning director, to have the traffic engineer, take another look at that and make sure that those numbers don't reach any kind of expanding of heritage.

Yeah, we can dive deeper into that. It's a great a great comment. We actually redesigned our site based on working with staff. Uh Mr. Roie had multiple meetings uh in order to reduce the number of driveways. Originally had two driveways. We had a big courtyard on the south side of the building and we eliminated that push it um far back to the east. We only have the one driveway and the concern was is the AF peak hour. Peak hour it backs up. So we even worked with our client to change his shifts. So he has the majority of his staff change on the shifts at different hours in the peak hour. We had a traffic engineer go out there on a weekday morning and watch all the traffic and do the counts and see exactly how far stacks back there. It doesn't stack back to that uh driveway location. So, as Christie mentioned earlier, uh we went through multiple iterations and quite a few months uh of being to get this site plan the way it is today. In the AM peak hour, which is where that the um Heritage Oaks Boulevard stacks back the furthest, we only have 20 trips. That's a very very low generator. any other allowable use with the current zoning and land use would be a much higher parking much higher trips. Um it's just some of the allowable uses and we wouldn't even be come before council if we did one of these allowable uses in the current zoning. Retail stores, laundry, dry cleaning, hotels, motel, restaurants.

But you're not. No. No. Exactly. That's what could be there if we didn't get this. That's true. It could be but It's not what we're here for. So, um, my last question is, um, are the beds going to be privately funded or is you accepting government assistance towards the, uh, residents where I believe uh, your life is all all private. I don't know exactly the mix, but typically with this particular this particular operator. They do a mixture of some um public fun.

So they have a breakdown of single rooms and double rooms and private rooms and semi-private rooms uh in this facility. So typically there's more right now there's more semi-privates than privates. Uh that's about to change in 26 when the code changes it's going to totally flip. So, but to what to 90% privates and 10% wow semi-privates. So, right now there's no regulation on the mix. There will be the beginning of 26 or the end of but that's not going to determine whether it's privately funded or you accept

no typ but but typically these fac this facility is is programmed to be a privately funded but Medicare and Medicaid sometimes is accepted. They do set some Sometimes sometimes. Thank you, Miss Adams. I could be more specific. Thank Thank you, mayor. Just looking for clarification. You had said the reason the majority of the parking is on the south end of this lot is because it increases the buffer as opposed to if it was on the north end of the lot closer to the Minton entrance and exit.

Uh, no. We shifted the building west to provide the greatest buffer to the east where the existing residential is. And then our employee entrance is on the south side and our guest main entrance is on the west side and there's a covered drop off and pa area uh there. So we anticipate the majority of our visitors will be parked on the west side where employees don't park and majority of our employees will park on the south side. Right. I'm just thinking because of the connection that already leads to Minton. I guess in my mind why it's not just flipped. Christy, does that make sense? So when you say flip the building flipped or the parking

you're basically moving this this parking strip, if they want people to utilize more of Minton, then I would think the majority of the parking has to then be closer to that Minton access, which would then put it on the north side of that building rather than the south. Let me chime in. I I hadn't said this, but with the town center overlay, the notion was to try to get buildings closer to Mitten Road, so it had more of a town center feel.

And we actually I think there's a provision in the town center that we're trying not to have double rows of parking along Mitten Road. Um otherwise, if we don't have that provision, then certainly it would be possible. But the notion is to try to create it so that it is sort of a you don't just see stacks and stacks of cars as you're driving along Mitten Row. I hear that. I'm just looking at this design and asking myself if I were a visitor to this location and I was, you know, entering or leaving the location, the likelihood of me using Minton versus Heritage Oaks.

Thank you. So to help answer your question too, the south is a side corner setback. You see how our building kind of um bumps out where the property line also bumps out and we have a uh lesser setback to the north. We also want to minimize any impacts with cars and noise or anything like that with our neighbor to the north. So we have zero doors on that north wall at all and it's all landscaping and greenery. Um so that was important to keep our uh activities with respect to the parking lot and people coming and going to be away from your life. That was also important.

Yeah. And I guess to clarify um with these types of institutions you always have sort of back of house facilities don't you? I mean that that's I guess if this was a type of business where you didn't have back a house there would be no need to have this and then you could say you know that some of the parking could be here and this building could be shifted a little bit further to the east. Um that that's what makes they they definitely have sort of maximized their footprint by you know having these green courtyards internally. We have two existing driveway stepouts to us. So those are set. Those are locked in. We have the driveway to the south off Heritage Oaks. So that's set. So we've got three corners basically already locked in. So we're working with our building to and our parking to be within that area meeting the town center overlay requirements and of course all of the other requirements that we need for our facility uh as well. All right. Thank you. So, we've sort of backed into this. You didn't have an opportunity to make your presentation before we started asking you the questions. Did you have a formal presentation you wanted to make?

Uh, actually, uh, as always, staff did a very thorough, great presentation about it. Um, I did want to say we've seen other projects for this site and for other nearby sites um that I would say were not compatible at all. Um, and we know that neighborhood is very well organized and you know that neighborhood is very well organized and you've seen them come out. We do a 500 foot radius notification of all property owners and we haven't had one person come to the plan zoning board. Uh there may be somebody here tonight. I don't know. Uh but I don't think staff has had any complaints. We haven't heard from any of the neighbors. So we think we've done a pretty good job of trying to work with staff on their known concerns, having our traffic engineer go out there and watch and see how it really operates there. And of course, we waited until school was open so we could see if there's school buses or a bus stop or anything else like that that we could try to help with or make better. Uh so we've really spent a lot of time uh making traffic a priority and we did the same thing with your life when they did master plan uh these driveways previously as well. Um and from my understanding there's been no complaints about your life. So this seems like a really good compatible use. This whole corridor as you saw in the uh staff presentation has becoming a P1 corridor. So we're 100% compatible. Uh with respect to that, the current zoning allows up to 40 feet. That could be a three or four story building. We don't think that's a good idea. I had a client previously said that they wanted to do that. I told them I wouldn't work on the project. Just not compatible for this site. So this is a singlestory building. The other thing about this type of use is they're marketing to the children that parents need care. So when you're

marketing to them, you have to keep an immaculate facility to be successful. As you heard earlier, they have hundreds of these facilities and have worked on them and they know what they need to be successful. It also provides a community need. There's a real need for this uh in this area and that's the studies that they do is to help determine that. They know that there is a need as well with all their experience. Um so long term, just like your life, it will be wellmaintained. It's set up almost like a residence. Um, so it's of much much less intense use than anything that could be in the current uh zoning and land use. As you saw in the staff presentation, we're at less than or almost half of the allowable floor area ratio, which just means we're not trying to cram too much of a building on here um that could be a lot bigger. Um we do meet all of our concurrency requirements as well and uh this uh planning and zoning board did unanimously recommend approval. Um and of course staff recommends approval. There's a whole bunch of criteria that we have to meet to be compatible with the future land use and with the zoning and we meet all of that criteria and that's uh detailed in the staff report. I promise I won't go through it unless you have more questions about it. Uh, so with that being said, I do appreciate a chance to respond if there are any public comments and if you have any more questions at all, that's what we're here for.

All right. I do not see any lights on here. What's the wishes of the council? We've got 2025 20 uh 25 and 26 separately, right? Is that correct? Yes, please. Miss Boltz, I make a motion that we uh approve ordinance number 2025-25. Right. Thank you, Mr. Frampus. A second with a statement. All right. Thank you. What's your statement, please?

Um I do see a need for this in our area. Um and and I do believe that besides shift change, I think it will be a low impact on traffic uh in the area. So um I know facilities typically like this don't get a whole lot of traffic coming into them. So I think uh it the impact in traffic on I know we can't take traffic into consideration. So be careful. I don't want to get yelled at, Christie. But um but yeah, I think it's going to be low impact on traffic. It's probably a pretty good fit for this area. I you know, I do I think the the view that they showed that what the building looked like it it it looked pretty good there. Um I do I do agree that coming down heritage and seeing all that parking there, it might not be the most attractive thing. and and hopefully the we can buffer that in somehow where we can't you know it's not very visible and um but u that's my statement. So there you go.

All right. Thank you, Miss Adams.

I had just wanted to respond to the uh I don't know if it was a question or more of a statement of you know not hearing back from residents. I can tell you I I do hear from residents on this parcel and the southern parcel to it uh I would say quite often. Um and I do think in terms of this type of facility going at this location versus what could be going at this facility. I think it's a good fit for the community. I think it fits well with having your life next to it with the the types of visitations and things that will be utilizing this type of uh space. ideally thinking that both will stay there long term, but in terms of what could go there versus this type of use, I think this is a good fit for our community. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, we have a motion on the floor from um Miss Sultz and we have a second from Mr. Frampus. All those in favor of approving this, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 70. Right. Thank you. Next is 2025-26. Mr. Mr. Kerry, did you want to say something? No, I was going to jump in if we weren't going to do the second one. So, but you you got to it before I needed to. So, okay. Um, Mr. Frampus, make a motion that we approve the first reading of 2025-26 as written. All right. Thank you, Miss Voltz. Second.

All right. We have a motion on the floor for Mr. Frampus and a second from Miss Voltz. All in favor of approving the um concept plan, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries. 70. Mr. Ro, you're going to get back to us with a couple things we discussed and Yeah, there there's the HOA and all that. Several items including the HOA item. Um I also just want to clarify uh Director Fischer, this will be on the first meeting in December, the second reading. That That's correct. Okay. And if I can just clarify, city council did approve both parts A and B. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. Thank you.

Does that cover everything for you, Miss Fischer? All right. Thank you. All right. We'll move on to 5C. I'm sorry, Miss Adams. I thought you left your light on. I'm sorry. No. Just a quick question for Mr. Roodie. Knowing that this would then come forward for the first meeting in December, does that give enough time to contact the HOA in your experience in terms of getting feedback from them?

Yeah, certainly to get some feedback. I I know we went not myself, but the staff went through this years ago with the first project. And so we'll we'll take a look at that and the logistics of it. Right. I mean, they you know, I know they left, but they they were willing to put up another fence. Yeah, they were it. It's just that, you know, do you The problem with two fences next to each other is who takes care of the in between the two fences, right? And it just becomes a

a nightmare. And so we I I think the idea we had was a good one, but I think that's the the the new idea is something to look into and see if that would be a better option. But they they're happy to comply with whatever landscape buffering requirements they're needed. That's that's not a deal breaker for the project.

All right. Thank you. All right. Next item 5C. Um approval of ordinance 2025-27. This is the second reading. Mr. Kerry order. Okay. This is uh ordinance number 2025-27 an ordinance of the city of West Melbourne, Florida, relating to cleanliness and sanitation of premises amending section 26-104 of the city code of the city of West Melbourne relating to notice of violation owner amending section 26-105 relating to hearings providing for conflict providing for subverability providing for co codification and scriveners errors and providing an effective date. And uh as you know, this is the ordinance we discussed two weeks ago uh that the city council had uh desired in order to create a citation program for uh trash on the road that would allow uh code enforcement or police officers to cite somebody uh with a $20 citation for a first offense and 45 for a second offense rather than it going through the code enforcement process. And just as a reminder, a code enforcement violation um can result in fines of up to $250 a day running continuously until the problem's taken care of. So, you know, in that way, uh this is an easy way to get the the uh problem resolved faster through a citation rather than code enforcement process, which can take a couple months to to work its way through the system. Um, and also, you know, at less expense to the residents because it's a one-time fine rather than a, uh, you know, series of, uh, fines that run until it's corrected. Um, and so if anybody has any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Uh, but otherwise, uh, this would be on second reading. Uh, if you would like to discuss and, uh, let me know if you'd like to, uh, to vote on this and make it part of our code.

I do have a question. I have a whole bunch of lights on on this one. Did you read need to read the ordinance? I just did. I did when before we started before I started discussing it. All right. I'm sure I was here. The miss first light is Mr. Frampus. I'll make a motion we approve ordinance 2025-27 on second reading with a question. We need to open and close the public hearing. It's We're still in public hearing. Dor, do we have any um We have Okay. All right. Thank you. We're still in that. Um, your question, Mr. Frampus. All right. Well, let's get a second. I'm sorry. No, close. No cards, but we have to formally open and close.

All right. We will officially close the public hearing. We have no cards. Thank you. All right. Is there um Miss McGuire? Do you have a second? Yes. Thank you, mayor. I'll second. All right. Thank you. And Mr. Frampus, your question.

Uh, Mr. Carrie, you stated a police officer could do this this uh fine or or citation. Um how's the officer going to realize that the warnings were properly given prior to him writing the ticket or is it going to be something that he's sent out to do based on the warning not being complied with? Uh my understanding is that the warnings will be recorded in the system so that when an officer looks up the address, they can see if there's been a warning um prior to issuing the citation. If there has been a warning, then that officer can issue a citation. If there has not, uh he or she would then issue the warning first. But uh chief is here if you want to answer him answer any questions about process.

There anything other than that that you want to add, Chief? No, we're we're still talking about and finalizing our process, but similar to any traffic citation or anything, there's a record created right away and it's entered by our records division within a couple days into the system. So, I would anticipate same type of structure here and the officers can look back and see what the history is. So, when we talked about the warning before they were going to get instructions on how to comply, is that that's not typically something an officer would hand out when he gives a warning. So, are we restructuring how we're doing warnings?

Well, we are restructuring how we're going to be doing warnings specifically for code violations. So, we're working on that final process whether it's going to be um direct in the computer system or in triplicate or how we're doing that. So, we we've we've had a couple meetings on that. We're trying to finalize that. Um but I'm confident we'll have a a good process that you know and certainly if someone I just wanted to staff to Yeah. you know, and and really who I see focusing on this is going to be our code enforcement officers and our PSAs. Uh probably not patrol officers as much, but they certainly would be able to if we wanted them to. Thank you. No other questions.

Thank you, Miss Vultz. Your question was answered. I take it. Your light disappeared. All right. So, we have a motion on the floor from Mr. Frampus and a second from Miss McGuire. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 70. All right. We will um close the public hearing. We'll open the public forum. Are there any cards for public forum? No. All right. We will close the public forum and we'll go to the consent agenda. Uh this will be to approve the October 27th minutes and the November 4th minutes. Miss Adams. I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. All right. Thank you. And Miss Magguire. Second.

Thank you. All right. There's a motion on the floor from Miss Adams and a second by Miss Magcguire. All those in favor of approving the October and November minutes, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 70. All right. Thank you. Next item 8A action agenda addendum two agreement between the city of West Melbourne and Promise.

Good evening, mayor, deputy mayor, and members of the council. um presenting this item this evening. Although we have uh Mr. Jeff Keel from Promise to uh answer any questions regarding the Promise and the Promise operation, but um was approached uh by Mr. Keel uh earlier last week uh or yes, I'm sorry, earlier last week um uh having some uh challenges with the cafe and and asked the question of uh interest in in being uh closing the cafe so that they could market the site. Um going through the agreement, it does talk about uh the lease agreement that the city has with Promise and and andor the cafe, however you want to say it. um to be remain open. Uh and so in an effort of transparency promise, uh Mr. Keel wanted to come forward and and ask the city's permission to uh with the possibility to go dark uh so that they could market the site and see if they could get a tenant. um per the lease agreement, any tenant that uh they were able to uh get into an agreement with would have to come to the city council to be approved. And so this was kind of a a good first step anyway knowing that that process might be uh here in the works. And so I think really with that there there have been two uh items that were brought to our attention. Um I don't know Mr. Ke if you want to come towards the microphone. But uh the first item is that uh about four and a half years ago uh promise was here and there was a liquor license uh award uh there was a liquor license awarded so that they could do some you know some wedding

type maybe not wedding but you know event type activities at the site um with alcohol. There were some pro provisions put in place, fencing and hours and rules as far as how big the events could be and and no serving to the public, those kinds of things. Um, if if this item were to move forward, I think uh promises amanable to um adding a line to eliminate that that liquor um section of of the code. So, I think that's uh an important item that was brought up and uh certainly open for the council to discuss. So, with that, I will I will turn it over to Mr. Ke.

Thank you. Be because of the there's a nine-year history. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to provide some history of our building in the park and this request request which I understand is not an insignificant request of the council. In 2016, Promise and the city entered into an agreement for the Promise Cafe and Bakery and after receiving a large donation from a generous donor and with the amazing support from the city, construction began. and I was fortunate to come on board in advance of the grand opening in 2020. The dream of this promise endeavor was to build and operate a restaurant to serve West Melbourne and the surrounding community and to provide gainful employment for a significant number of our disabilities community. When the doors were opened, 8 to 10 Promised Resident employees were trained and employed with an expectation that it would be a significant part-time job for them. The expectation was that this operation would become self- sustaining within a reasonable amount of time after the opening. During the initial weeks, parkgoers and community supporters came out to support the endeavor. However, it was clear early on the customer traffic would need to increase significantly to be near enough for it to be self- sustaining. After about five weeks, the park closed for some time due to CO 19. And during that time, I sought advice from restaurant owners and experts. Unfortunately, they had no silver bullets other than to express concern over the location for a restaurant. Having just opened, we felt the need to make it work. I was concerned that the trend at that time and CO 19 did not help, but it was clear that the op that operating

with that schedule and with that staffing level would require he heavy subsidization. From that time on, we felt a tremendous amount of commitment to our resident employees, our donor, and the city to find a successful strategy. We have been committed to trying to make it work, including additional investments. We enhanced the ice cream shop and the quality of the ice cream. We expanded the food and beverage offerings. We moved our thrift shop into the building as an upscale resale boutique with wonderful clothing and clothing and accessories in hopes that there would be synergy between shoppers and customers for what we were offering. We focused on kids parties. We added more prominent signage to the building and on Minton Road. We fenced off the back patio to accommodate larger parties. We invested in an alcoholic beverage license which we later decided to surrender after moving the boutique into the large event space. We invested in marketing platform and marketing. Frankly, for those frequent customers and shoppers who come in, they believe it's a wonderful place, as do I. In the five years we have been open, we have sold 170,000 food items out of that location. And yet we have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and there is no path to coming close to break even for the type of business that we are trying to operate in that building. It is clear that families in the park are a determining factor of our business. When the park is fairly empty, it is reflected in our business results. After f first approaching the staff last year to alert them of our situation, we have tried to pursue confidential conversations about a sale or subleasase. However, it has proven to be

difficult while we continue to operate. In fact, employee retention knowing that this is our desire is virtually impossible and we have had four managers since last year because they see the challenge and leave for more stable opportunities. In fact, that just happened as I received a text message from the manager who we were high on at 7:46 last Monday letting me know that the previous day was her last day because she found a more stable opportunity. Without stable management, it is virtually impossible to operate. That said, it has become clear that our best bet is to close, hire a real estate professional to more aggressively market the building to businesses with a business model that makes more sense for this location. We understand that the city must approve whoever we bring to the table. Coming to this decision has been difficult, as demonstrated by over five years of trying to make it work with limited ability to employ more than a handful of our residents for a minimal number of hours each week. and absorbing losses month after month. Even with that, for our residents who work there, change is not easy for our population. We understand the limitations in the land agreement between Promise and the city, and we ask for the understanding that this would allow us to stem losses and aggressively pursue an owner or a tenant that is better better fit for the location. You you also have our commitment that we would maintain the building as if we were in it. and this would not become an issue for the city. Also, because I understand that this is public, I want to express that the promised housing community is on sound financial footing. However, as a nonprofit, continuing to absorb sizable losses is a challenge and not in the best interest of the future for our population. I respect the fact that you are charged

with making decisions in the best interest of the city and especially because of our management retention challenges. Would appreciate it if you will be supportive of us as we try to find an acceptable tenant and the best solution for our residents who count on us to do that. Again, I know it's a big ask and you have the right to reject the request and require that we stay open. However, this will be a challenge without management and I hope you will work with us on it. Thank you.

Mr. Francis followed by Miss False. I I don't have any questions for you, sir. I mean, I don't know if anybody has questions for Mr. Ke. Any questions for Mr. Ke while while we have him up here?

Mr. Gaylord m um Mr. Ke do you do you know like what are the what are the losses promises currently undertaking as a result of keeping this open? And I guess the reason I'm asking that question is um you know in in looking over this agenda item, you guys will need to pursue uh additional interested tenants. I'm I'm trying to determine um what kind what the nature of the business is going to have to be of those tenants to allow you to have a uh self- sustaining profitable business that won't necessarily run into the same challenges that you're currently facing now. Does does that question make sense?

Yeah, it's a fair question. I I don't think it's a restaurant, and I've heard that loud and clear from the restaurant industry. Um I think it is the type of business that has some sustainable income that doesn't count on traffic at the park. So, for example, maybe some type of kids operation, some type of daycare, some type of play area, you know, um gaming place, um something like that. But what What it needs is somebody with a sustainable income stream that isn't dependent on the weather being great and there being a lot of people in the park who then will also make the trekk and do our operation. So that that's what I foresee and I'll be just candid with you that operation will lose $150,000 this year. So that is that is monies that we are taking that we could be using for our residents to plug that hole. And some would argue that God, why'd you wait this long? And we waited this long because of the commitment we've got to make it work. you know, we we we appreciate the fact that a donor wrote a big check to us and we appreciate the amazing generosity that this council has had for promise and so I I didn't take that lightly, but the losses are side and I and I'll be honest with you, the $150,000 that to me is best case scenario going forward because we have managed this in a way where we've streamlined as much as possible possible and I just I don't see a pathway to it being better than that. And the other thing is even more important than just that is I can't hire managers because what happens is they come in, you know, I I do a great sales

job of getting them to come in and then they come in and they realize that there are so many so they have to staff it with a reasonable number of employees and then there are their pockets during the day that there's just nobody coming in because it's either too hot or there's clouds in the sky or whatever. And I think we had hoped when we launched this endeavor that we would become a destination. And what I have learned in the process is restaurants want to be near restaurants. And let's face it, it's not the easiest entry into our building. might be a different story if there was a driveway off of Minton Road and you could pull right in and go there, but you know, you got to go around and come up the front and everything. And you know, people are into convenience and this is not convenient for a restaurant to operate. So, I I don't think it would be a restaurant. I think it would be something else. But again, maybe it's a school or a preschool where they've got tuition that they can count on. Now, we haven't sought we haven't hired anybody to help market it yet, you know, pending this. So, I would rely on professionals to help us figure out how to optimize this situation, which is pretty tough on us and our population. So, I hope that answered your question. Uh, Miss Boltz,

I still is it for comment or do you have a question for Mr. Keel? No, I don't have a question for him. Okay. All right. Fine. All right. So, we're back to Mr. Frampus. Just comment and Mr. Ke, I think we're finished. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, um, this has been going on for some time and and I I think the city has, uh, made a lot of accommodations for this property and and, uh, and I, I fall back on that. I believe that council made a reasonable offer to assume the property from them and and to continue on, you know, going above and beyond that. I don't I don't I'm not comfortable with it and I don't know that I um support this shutting the operation down and leaving the building vacant. Um while things are, you know, Mr. Carrie could all along they've been trying to find somebody to market this.

Yeah. I mean, there's nothing in the agreement that prevents them from finding tenants, but they would of course have to bring the tenant to you for approval once they get it. Yeah. But all along this could have been happening. Um, and what are the according to the current agreement, what types of businesses could go there? Is it just the agreement? I don't have it in front of me. The exact wording is is uh I think it says concession or uh some compatible harmonious compatible use something along that line. I'll need to pull up the agreement to see the exact

I really believe that everybody had good intentions in the beginning of this and and it was a you know everybody was high on the idea. Um obviously it didn't work out. The location as Mr. Ke said, you know, doesn't work for restaurants. We thought it would, you know, be a good idea or when they originally uh came up with this. I know a couple people are still on council that originally came up with this um and agreed to it that it was a good idea back then. Um it doesn't seem to be one now. Um, I do have a couple things that if council were to move forward with this agreement that I think there should be some changes in the agreement like um if there's not an active negotiation going on at the sixmonth uh provision of closure that the extension not be granted. um should be terminated at, but if they're in the middle of a a negotiation, allow the extra three months for the extension. Um all utilities must be maintained during the sale period or the the six-month closure. Again, Mr. Rodie beat me to the punch on this one that the alcohol does not extend to the negotiation of the new lease agreement. And I believe that it should only be marketed towards what our lease agreement currently says and not bring it back to council. I think that's a no-win if you bring it back to council and try to negotiate a contract should be under the contract that is in place and it shouldn't be marketed towards anything else but that. And to to be clear, the current agreement says uh food service concession on the

property for the enjoyment of residents and visitors of the park. That's my suggestion to council. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miss Folz. Yeah, having been in the restaurant business myself um for a couple of years, I know what it's like um and um caused me to file for bankruptcy um because we put everything we had into a restaurant. Um and um it didn't work out and restaurants are very very picky. Um places to operate. I mean, they just are. And I don't think a restaurant is ever going to be um viable there. It's just probably not going to happen. Um I think Jeff is right. Maybe daycare um some sort of daycare or school um something like that probably would be the best idea. There's playground equipment there. Um, I think we should, um, let them go dark for six months and see what happens and then we can look at renegotiating and go from there.

Mr. Bentley, thank you, Mayor. Mr. This reads that the city manager recommends that the city council and then authorize the city manager to do this. In my discussions with you early today, I got the feeling that that's not the wording that you chose.

Yeah, I I don't have a dog in this fight. Um that that wording is a is not meant to be misleading, right? This this is a council decision, not a staff decision. And so while it says that the the intent of it is that if if the council moves forward with this, the action would be to authorize the city manager to execute the agreement. So it's it's misleading. It's not intended. Um, you know, when when items come up, it's rare that I make a recommendation one way or the other, unless they're logistical items or a contract we want to enter into where I say, you know, we've gone through the bid process. We've we've got the low bidder. I'm recommending that we hire the low bidder.

Can you give us your thoughts on letting it go dark? Boy, um, I do not vote. I understand. I said your thoughts. I didn't say your vote.

I my perspective on this I will give my honest perspective on this. Um I think a lot of the language in this agreement was written before the restaurant was open. And so there was uh a lot of language and effort put into concern that they would never get to open. They would never get to the actual day of opening. And it's written uh if as you read through it, it's written in several different sections planning for that, if you will, from the city's perspective. Um obviously they did open and so a lot of that language, you know, we're we're we're almost 10 years later and we wish the language was written more about the operations as opposed to them becoming uh becoming an entity and and whether they were able to do that or not. And so I think uh you know over the course of my four years I've had numerous conversations with Mr. Keel about the challenges uh that he's faced and we've talked marketing strategies and signage and we've allowed you know uh what I would call uh minor efforts you know increasing signage putting signage in different places to to help promote um the cafe and and certainly on a on a hot busy day it there's people in there and as I will attest on an overcast cold today. There's not a lot of people in the park and thus not a lot of customers. And so I think uh I know I'm kind of riding the fence here with some of these statements, but I I do acknowledge that um they they operate and own a building in our park and it's the vested interest from my perspective is the keeping the park healthy, right? And so if that's a different tenant,

so be it. Um, as long as it's, you know, the word I I like to use, as long as it's harmonious with the park might be a good thing. It might a different tenant might be a better thing for our park. Um, but certainly, you know, there is an agreement in place that says they have to operate this and and thus we wanted to be transparent and come forward and, you know, ask permission rather than forgiveness. So,

um, well, I for one, as in my discussion with you today, would not support the liquor license going to I I'd just take it out of the contract period. I don't want that in the middle of our park. And I had faith and trust in Jeff and that organization that it would never go too far. and I don't have that faith and trust in someone that I don't even know yet. So, I wouldn't want them to buy the place thinking that that came with it because that was kind of a one-off that we even allowed that. It wasn't part of the original contract. So, I I you know, I wouldn't want to make sure if we agreed to this that we took that completely out of there.

Agree with that? I uh also would have liked to got more discussion on what they think the possibilities of things going there. I don't want to spend a bunch of I don't want them to spend a bunch of time on soliciting these companies only to find out it's not something the council's going to be okay with. So I would have liked to seen some communication. I don't know if a workshop or not. We just had one of those. But that says here's the kinds of things that we would be okay with so that they know upfront. don't come with this and do come with that. Um, so I'm still nervous about allowing it to go dark. I I just usually that's not a good thing, but uh I would again I want the alcohol out of there. Obviously more discussion on the going dark, but uh I'd like to get some more communication between us and promise on here's the possibilities that we see. Which ones are you guys okay with? because you know and I do worry about and I would ask the attorney if they brought in a daycare for example or something like that which seems kind of innocuous but are what if they get injured in the park while their parents maybe didn't show up I don't know I just don't know what all the risk are with that kind of thing since they're in the middle of our park where does our liability end

yeah so as you know um any uh tenant that came in that wasn't a food service concession would require an amendment to the agreement. And if we had to uh amend the agreement, we would obviously require them to indemnify us for any uh claims. Um you know, obviously though, the risk we run is that anybody that gets hurt in the daycare is going to sue both the daycare and the city. And if they they can indemnify us, but it still takes time, resources to get out of the lawsuit. Um, and that's assuming that the the judge is willing to uphold the identification. And um, so, you know, I wouldn't say there's no risk, but we would obviously work on the back end through the amendment to protect ourselves as much as we could.

And is there Mr. Is there any further thoughts on involving the city into whether they would want to get into this just to prevent someone we don't want getting into it? Yeah, I I think uh promise has shown uh the willingness to continue our discussions on that option,

but we're going to vote tonight to allow them to go on or not. Well, I I I mean, they're two separate items. This item is the item in front of the council this evening. Regardless of that other item, that would that would not happen overnight. So they're making this request right now. All right. Thank you, Mr. Francis. And then Miss Adams.

I I guess to Mr. Bentley's point, I think I would like to resolve one before the other. And it seems like um you know, we did make an offer to resolve the problem for them. and if we can get that discussion done first and if that doesn't work out maybe go down this road. Uh on a different note um I have a problem maybe and you could tell me if it's a problem or not or what you think Mr. Broie is a for-profit business marketing such as a daycare, marketing our park and and utilizing our equipment on a daily basis for the wear and tear for their profit. I I have a problem with that and and I don't know how you feel about it, but I I I think that shouldn't be part of the marketing of that business, our park. It It's funny you mentioned that. We've we've anecdotally had some discussions in the office and um that is one of the several items that we have talked about. Um, now we can let you know if we, and again, I know we're kind of getting off subject, but if if if a preschool or daycare um were to be a tenant that that the council would consider, we would have to put some provisions for them having their own equipment. um

where would they put it that and that's why my suggestion was yes you're it's we only allow it marketed towards the current provisions that are in the lease agreement then than to say hey it's up in the air so you're in a public park yes we those those are some of the challenges that we would have to work through without question thank you miss Adams

thank thank you mayor it's My understanding based on some conversations that I've had in the past with Mr. Roadie that even if the city took ownership of of the building as is today, we don't necessarily have a a concrete need or plan for that building versus I hear you know what Mr. Ke saying about he'd like to go and explore those options. U it was also my understanding and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the offer the council made was rejected. It was not. It is back on the table. That conversation is still continuing. Where are we with that? The counter off or the counter offer the council made was rejected, but we continue to discuss price.

Gotcha. No deal is ever dead.

Understood. Um, I don't I don't necessarily see that it hurts the city to give promise time should they wish to explore the options of finding another tenant, especially knowing that they would have to come before this body to make a decision on what could be allowed there. So I think if we were clear on these are our concerns in terms of liability, we still want them, you know, to be successful, but their success doesn't necessarily, you know, it it's tied in a weird way with this building and the use that councils previously had given to them. I do understand Mr. Francis's concern in terms of if you leave it open-ended and it stays dark for a year, then what type of impact does that have on the building? I couldn't.

Right. But if we give them nine months and they ask for an extension, it's granted there doesn't seem to be concrete. This is the end of of our negotiation period in terms of giving them that leeway. I do understand that concern because it's it's a beautiful building. It's within our city. So, what we don't want to see is it, you know, deteriorate.

Yes, that's exactly the word I was looking for. We don't want to see it deteriorate. I think that could look poorly on the city. It could then become a danger to the residents that use the park. Um, but I I personally don't see the harm in letting them have a certain amount of time to explore that option. And if that option does not pan out or they can't find someone viable to go in that location with the stipulations from council, then maybe that, you know, discussion continues. That's just my personal opinion. Thank you.

All right. Okay. I guess I get to weigh in now. So, this contract was written back in 2016 when everything was going well. The building was not there yet. Um, it was written for the benefit of everyone and I think it's a very good contract. We city has contracts with all different types of things, different vendors, different things that we have. Um, I think we should stick with the contract that we're not hurting promise at all. They can still market it. They can still look for um other tenants. They're they're not prohibited from any of that. I would not like to see the building dark when there are events going on at the park on the weekends and things and that building is open. It is open. It is welcome to other people to come in there. I wouldn't want the building to be locked up and just be dark. So, um that's this is not something that I would support. So, we are to the point now where we're looking for this particular agreement here, a motion in a second to authorize a city manager to execute an addendum. So, where is the council with this? Miss Adams, follow Mr. Frampus.

Mayor, I'm just looking for clarification based on what Mr. Ke said. If we do not I mean, are you I don't know if the question can be redirected to him if council wants him to come back up, but if you don't mind joining us for a second, are you losing the 150 at the end of the year and potentially the next year whether that building goes dark or not? No. What is the financial impact for promise vers looking at it going dark versus not

in full transparency the fixed cost before we open our doors for operating it is about $5,000 a month so we still will have cost associated with it and I also want to reinforce that one of the things I'm here to say is I've got a management problem I cannot manage that operation okay I've had four people since last year and and then we hire somebody we think is good and on Monday she tells us the day before was our last day. So that's that's part of the reason we're asking to go dark is that we just we don't even have anyone to operate it. And then if I have in order to get somebody to operate it, then I got then that then I got to go out and hire somebody probably for a lot more money. And now we're back to we're not we're back to well hiring somebody and trying to tell them we want you to come work here, but just know that you're going to see people walking through the building because we're going to be trying to market it. Who wants to work in that environment? So part of the predicate for this request to go dark is to give us some breathing room. It's not like it's not going to cost us anything. It is going to cost us something. And it gives us the breathing room to really kind of go at it hard. I I don't want it to take nine months. But I don't know because we haven't really, you know, the any of the conversations we've had have been soft conversations with, hey, I know this, you know, you know, make a call to Calvary Church and I'll talk to them about it. Those are the types of calls, but we're not real estate professionals. And, you know, I believe in hiring a professional to come in and help us figure out with parameters. Happy to have those parameters and understand them. better to know it at the beginning than to bring some I don't want to bring someone to you that you know I'm putting all my

eggs in those basket and then you all feel like it's not the right fit you know I'd like to know that ahead of time but you know losing continuing to lose money and then not being able to have stable management who wants to work in an environment like that and I'm I'm proud of the place but you know what it's just a it just was a kind of a bad idea to have a 7,000 foot restaurant in the middle of a park. Unfortunately, I didn't hear the other number. Just sorry to be clear. You're hitting 5,000 a month. Well, no. 5. If we close the doors, our fixed cost are $5,000. To go dark would be 5,000 a month. What is it to not go dark per month?

To not go dark? Well, it all depends on what we do. I mean I if I if I figured out a way your plan moving forward if council did not support it going dark what ballpark that number for me

you well it all it depends if we open up the ice cream window and just serve ice cream and you know I probably get you know it would be it would be less than $150,000 it'd be less than that 12 or $13,000 run rate and it would be more than the $5,000 so I don't know seven $8,000 maybe, you know, because we'd have to hire staff to staff the window. I don't see a scenario where we could open the doors, you know, and rehire and, you know, try to find a manager who I'm going to have to pay more money to than I had paid the last one. So, you know, I think it's somewhere between 13 losing $13,000 and $5,000. But, you know, we still got to manage it. Even if it's the ice cream window, we still got to manage it. And that would not be our preference. Our preference would be to go at it and try to find the right tenant acceptable to council and the city. You know, as you know, put everything into that. That's what I would like to do.

Thank you. Mr. Francis, Jeeoff, I think we still have questions. Oh, I do. But okay. Yeah, Bentley.

Yeah. Yeah, I just have a I have a concern that I haven't been able to get past yet. I'm not sure this council or the council back then, let me say it that way, would have let anybody inside that park other than Promise for obvious reasons. And now you're asking us to perhaps allow someone in there that's not promised. And I I just don't think we'd ever gotten there back then had we had it not been promised asking for that give. And I'm I don't I can't think of something I think would be safe for the city. To me, it just comes down to a financial issue. Obviously, you want to get something out of this investment that you've got and and so I don't know where the city sits on all this, but I'd rather go down that route than the possibility of putting someone in there that we don't have control over in a sense. I just I

So let could I sure absolutely a little bit. So

kind of you know so we we have a million7 into that building. We have a netbook value of a million 350. That was, you know, when I approached city manager, that was the number I was talking about. Okay, that is $150 a square foot. Okay, now granted, this is a nice building and with a lot of restrictions in the middle of the park, so it's not going to be worth the market beyond the park. But there is a huge delta between the number that was floated to me, which was under $50 a foot, and the million 350. So, and here's here's the challenge with us, okay? Because we're a nonprofit and we rely on fundraising and grants and we have an audit every year, okay? In almost every situation for grants and fundraising, I have to supply our our audited financial statements. And we have very clean financial statements. But I don't feel like I would be operating in in in a fiduciary manner for a nonprofit if I agreed to put literally a a million dollar loss on my books. And then I go out and ask somebody to give us a grant and they look at it and they say, "Holy cow, now you you you could make this argument anyway. What were you guys thinking?" And I can't change that

right at this point. But I'm, you know, that that's gonna that's going to follow us for a couple years on our financial statements that we suffered a million dollar loss from from the sale of a building that we know is worth way more outside of the park, right? I agree with that. You know what I'm saying? Here we are. My So my pitch is that it's a great deal and I and I and I I have always felt like the the best owner for that building is the city. I think my problem and probably the city's problem is I don't know what we would do that thing.

Get that and I've heard and and to to give market price for something that we have no use for. We're just trying to make it so that we all get out of this cleanly. We don't want someone there that as a neighbor in that park that we don't want. And and I'm just trying to find a clean way to get out. And I get it. And I didn't ask for market price. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Market price is is above what? Yeah, I know. But we're just sitting with something. I honestly don't know what the city would do with it, honestly.

And I heard that and that's why I'm here tonight to ask if we can market it. And I might be back. You know, there may be no one who's interested in it. And then I may, you know, but but it wouldn't be I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't at least try to maximize the value of this asset. What what about getting some kind of agreement with what we would allow there before you go down that process and before we close it? Does that make sense at all? I'm clo I mean I'm clo I don't have a way to operate it right now. I don't have a manager. Steve will come manage it for you. Who? Steve. But you know what? Hey, I'm I'm open. Everybody's open. Let's have that conversation. But I don't have a manager right now. So

that's where I'm at. Thank you, sir. I'm retired. You know what? I would Oh, now now you have a manager, Mr. Francis, followed by Miss Folz. Quick question. If this doesn't get approved and you don't agree to the city and and and the city calls you on it. How's that going to look on the books then? I just I guess it's rhetorical, but you know, I not sure how to answer that.

Um, Mr. Roadie, um, if this gets voted on today, it's only a one vote thing, correct? So it's yeah it's not a not a the changes that we discussed. How would are we going to implement that before the vote? So we would make we'd make a amendment to the agreement. I think um we have a couple things ready that we could scribble

about. Well, yeah. I mean, to me that the the the big one is obviously the liquor and then whatever term. Um I know there's been some discussion about different term would have to be added. Does

Thank you. Does it make sense to I I won't say the word table, but to to find out a little more detail before we have to do a vote since it's a single vote, not a you know, second reading. I don't know that he has support right now, but I don't even know what possibilities to go to go in there that the city would be okay with. So, so just to clarify, um, you're you mentioned that because let's say in between this meeting and next meeting, we were able to come up with a a list of 10 general uses for the sake of discussion and bring those uses to the next meeting. then members of the council might be favorable of longing to go dark knowing that it's these 10 potential uses or or

Pat I'm I'm I'm along with you. I think I for I wouldn't want I wanted promise to be successful. I don't know that I want somebody else in there. That's my problem. So I got but they're not. No, it's followed by Miss Boltz. Hold on. Miss, are you finished? Mr. Krampus. All right, Miss Boltz, do you have any earthly idea of what you might consider would go in there?

Well, I I really would like the opportunity to meet with professionals having some guidance from the city on what would be acceptable. I mean, I have I have ideas of what wouldn't be acceptable. Oh, I think we all do. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I So, I I have some real strong ideas of that and I have some ideas of what I think would definitely be acceptable and it's probably the the middle part that we would have to kind of discuss so that I understood it and you know to be clear I know this is a pro this is our problem. I really understand that and I'm just you know looking for some flexibility but I'm willing to work within parameters that you all give me. you know, and it would be good to know that before I go, you know, sign a listing agreement with a broker.

Yeah. Well, if if we do, as Mr. Roadie said, come up with 10 potentials, would you be able to come up with a few and work with him so that maybe at our next council meeting that we could have those particular businesses and vote on vote on it at the next meeting.

I mean, I'm I'm amanable to that. The only thing is how do I sign a listing agreement without providing them what the list if I'm really going to go at it? How do I how do I sign a listing agreement with somebody when they don't really know what those

Well, I'm not asking you to do that. I'm just asking you to come up with a an idea of a type of business that could go in there. Maybe with some information from any council members, from Mr. from John um from anybody else that maybe you know compile a list and come back and at least give you and us uh a couple of weeks to um to figure out try to figure it all out and then uh go from there. Um that would just be my suggestion that we do that.

Are you pulling this off of the agenda? Are you tableabling the item? And that would be a good idea. Yes, I would do that. So, I will make a motion that we table this for two weeks while we come up with whether Jeff comes up with, Tim comes up with, we all come up with ideas of what the city staff would potentially not want there or be okay with what would be there. Um, Tim, you don't look like you're too happy with that. No, I

you know I think Mr. Keel said it good. This is a challenge that promise has, but this is this is our park. This is our premier park and this building is located in our park. So, it's it's and it should be up to us.

It's a Well, I I I think this is uh while it's a challenge for promise, this is also a challenge for the city. Um, I was just going to ask mayor if it would be possible to get a consensus from this council because, you know, we've heard a couple members say that, you know, but for promise, this wouldn't have been allowed. And what what I hear is hesitation towards anybody else but promise. And I what I'm wondering is is that a consensus, right? I I I would I am happy to go through the effort with Mr. Keel. Uh maybe we can meet with a broker, get in the same room and just kind of talk through some potential end users. I'm I'm happy to do that and bring that back to the next council meeting. But if the cons if the consensus tonight is the same, it will be in two weeks, which is but for a promise,

we wouldn't allow we wouldn't allow this. I I think I I think we need to know that tonight. So that that's my question. Hold on. I've got a whole bunch whole bunch of lights on here. Mr. Roadie, I didn't even know you had a light. I've never used this before. Oh, that was your consensus. Okay. He asked us for Okay. I just before we, you know, kind of cart and horse, let's see what the group That's certainly where I am. But um hold on. And I have some lights here. I have some people who want to weigh in. Um, Mr. Bentley. Yeah. Uh, to your point exactly. I was thinking that's why I had my light on.

I was on the council when all this was done. I don't know however many years ago this whole thing started. I don't believe that council would have allowed anybody but promise in that park at the time. I just being honest and I don't know that that if I had to decide it again today, I think I would make the same decision. I trust you in that organization. and they were part of the fabric of that park. I mean, the naming and everything is is all about promise. Thank you, Mayor. Miss Adams.

Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Bentley, I hear you. I think this council has a lot of things to consider in terms of what's good for the park. I also think this council does want to support Promise as best we can because we love having you as part of our community. We see the impact that it has on your residents. So I don't think anybody up here wants to minimize that at all. Just two very different perspectives and responsibilities to carry. With that in mind, um just to give Mr. Roodie my my two cents as he's asking, um I still think it's worth exploring what those potential uses could be. Although I would want a more in-depth legal analysis from our city attorney in terms of what our liability would be from the city regardless of whoever goes there or if you wanted to brainstorm what those I mean I would look at more of something like five categories because I'm thinking businesses across 10 is a lot but that's just my opinion.

I have regretted saying the word 10 several times here in the last couple minutes. I like the 10 to be I hear you. I like five. Um, but I would, you know, brainstorming that list first and then I would want the city attorney's legal input in terms of businesses in these categories, how that could be affecting the park and affecting the city. Um because hearing the input from people who have were there when that decision was made, I definitely see the perspective of promise was a a a safe, you know, tenant for that for the city at the time and currently. However, I know the the spot that you're in. So,

I was running a newspaper. Okay. So, I would want to know what the legalities are that would impact the city rather than saying I'm not comfortable with it if I don't have that legal standing. And if if the legal advice comes back and says, you know, none of these options are really going to be great for the city, then I think that's a conversation this council has to have. But I would want both of those, you know, pieces of information at the same time.

So, we have a Oh, Miss Magguire. Sorry. Um, I Jesus. Um, I will kind of go behind Miss Adams on that with the I would be fine looking at, you know, a list of who would be good to kind of go in that space, who we think um, agreeing in the sense that they need to be, you know, legally good for our Yeah. parameter.

Correct. Um, and then I think it would be good to kind of go from there. Um, having not been here nine years ago when this went into play, um, and not wanting to limit, you know, what you guys can and can't do with your space. Um, I think that would kind of be the best step forward. All right. So, we still have a motion on the floor to table. I don't we do not have Mr. Frampus did not get seconded. That's correct.

I do request that Mr. Knows Can you repeat what you said?

Just looking for some direction there. There was uh several comments about, you know, but for promise that it it wouldn't be in the city's park. And so kind of that equates to, you know, really no other use being something that would be amanable to some of the council members. And then there were some comments that, you know, before other other council members made said before they wanted to make that decision, they would still like to see the list. And so we kind of have a a 50-50 battle going on. And so I'm just trying to look for some clarity and only, you know, not only for myself uh for promise, right? If if if one option is is clear to the council, then there's clear direction how to move forward. Um because that's what they're looking for. You know, they're looking to move forward, we're, you know, happy to uh oblige the desire of the council.

Okay. But then I will I'll be the first to say I'd like to see the list. You third Um I'm I'm but um the part where but for um but for promise because promise goes right hand in hand with Field of Dreams. That was the whole point of building that whole thing um wheelchair accessible. I'm that's where I am and I would not have supported anything other than promise when I made the original vote. Still just one vote still Mr. Gaylord Mr. Mr. Gaylord, your light is on, but we're just doing getting a a consensus right now. Did you have a direct question for Mr. Kyle?

No, I was giving my consensus. Oh, you can do that. You can just speak. Um, yeah, I um for Is that not eight and only have a seven? Seven. I thought you said four and four. Four for seeing the list and four for and three were just promised. Okay. All right. So then I think you So we are still tableabling this so that we can I think tableling it will be good. We can work with promise to uh come up with some end users and work on the legal to be tabled or can it just be brought back because I I will defer to an attorney.

Yeah, I mean it can be continued to the next meeting. Um, one point of clarification I wanted to get and not to confuse the matter, but uh, there was discussion about the alcohol that was done through a separate amendment. I can't um, revoke, for lack of a better term, the alcohol provision through this addendum, which by its own terms is only for the period while they're closed and then has no effect. So, I would have to bring a separate instrument in order to uh, revoke that. And I'm not sure if that was part of the consensus to move forward with amending it to remove their ability to sell alcohol or not. And so I I need to know when we bring this back, is that going to include an amendment for that purpose? Miss Adam, yes.

I my personal opinion is yes. I would I would remove that. I'm I'm fine either way. Anyone else want to weigh in on it? The yeses have the majority. So, we'll we'll take that pro and and you guys are fine with that provision being taken out. So, all right. So, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Kerry, you said it would only be for the time that they're closed, but we haven't voted that they're going to be closed.

So, so the the addendum that I drafted by its own terms is intended only to apply while it's closed. Essentially, it's protection for them so that we won't go after them and assertive of right of entry into the property because they closed in violation of the agreement. That's what the addendum does. But then after the six-month period or nine, if there's an uh exercising an extension in order to negotiate with a client, um then the addendum basically goes away. It's not a permanent amendment to the agreement. Um whereas if we were to amend the agreement to remove the alcohol, that would require an amendment. So, I'm just going to be uh ask this because I wanted to know am I bringing back when we if if and when this goes on the agenda. Is this going to be the addendum plus an amendment to remove their ability to sell alcohol? And it sounds like that is what you all want as a consensus.

That's fine. Yes. Anyone else wish to weigh in on this while we're just weighing in on things? All right. So, are we tableabling or are we just removing? I think it sounds like we are uh continuing this to two weeks from now to allow us to work with promise and figure out a list. Yeah. All right. So, continuing I don't need a second to the motion to table. So, we're good with that. Or do I need a motion and a second to continue? Well, I mean, it's on the agenda, so I think there should be a vote on on continuing it to two meetings ideally or two weeks. Do you want to amend instead of table and say to continue? I will may amend my motion to go ahead and um what was it?

To continue to continue this discussion to our next meeting. Is that enough time? Two weeks. It is. Yes. Okay. Good. Good. Your list is done. Are you seconding? I'll second. All right. Thank you. Any other comments before we put this to bed here? All right. So, we have a motion on the floor from um Mr. Frampus. It's procedural because continuing falls under tableabling. So, I mean, we're tableabling it. Yeah. I mean, so the reason I avoid using tableabling is because under Robert's rules, laying something on the table means to kill it. Basically, we don't. I understand that. But then

we we've had discussions about this before and it just seems clearer to me what your intention is. If you're saying continue it, but if you want to say table it with the understanding that means we bring it back in two weeks, that's fine as well. I only say that because it's clear in our our order. Yes, I I understand. All right. So, we have a motion to continue from Miss Vultz and we have a second from Mr. Gaylord. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those oppose, say nay. Motion carries. We'll I'm sorry. We lost it. It's against our rules.

I'm just saying it's against our rules. We don't have a continuing in our rules. We just have I'm okay with tableing it. So, two weeks. I yeah I would uh allow council member volts the opportunity to uh table it for discussion in two weeks if that's uh your preferable way of wording that and I understand you know certainly that that that our procedural rules do use that verbiage but like I said a couple years ago it caused some confusion because of the Robert's rules and the disparity in the way the word is used. So that's all. I will make a motion that we table this discussion for two weeks. Mr. Gaylord, do you wish to amend your second?

I'll amend my second to say we table it for two weeks. All right. Thank you. So we have a motion on the floor from Miss V to table this item for and for two weeks. And we have a second from Mr. Gaylord. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 70. We will talk about this again in in uh two weeks. All right. Thank you. That was easy. All right. So, next item is the first amendment to the license for the city right away for Hollywood estates. Mr. Roadie,

mayor, deputy mayor, members of the council, uh I am presenting a new amendment to the licensing agreement for the rightway of of Hollywood Estates. Um I don't see Joan Connelly here. So, I I don't see the HO HOA representative here, but um following the last action of the Hollywood Estates agreement, uh a new election was held in a new HOA board was put into office. Um I think members of that group uh were present at the last discussion of the Hollywood Estates entrance and made their made their points. Um ultimately the the group voted them in. And so uh the difference between the the last group which wanted natural landscaping and us not to cut the new group um wants landscaping and wants us to cut which is fine. We've been cutting it for um you know 10 plus years and so that's not an issue. What we were looking for is a little more consistency. Um along with that agreement or along with those discussions with the the new HOA board at Hollywood Estates, uh they recognized that a lot of the controversy over the years has been in the median strip of the entrance and sought a desire uh for us to concrete that. uh we discussed the option of splitting that 5050 um and and ultimately agreed to that and are bringing that forward obviously for for council action. So um this agreement uh essentially would cost the city uh $2,500 for the concrete and then they would pay the other $2,500.

The other provision that we did add in and agree to with the HOA is that in the future, if a new HOA board desires to do a different version of landscaping, that the city is then no longer responsible to maintain the entrance as a way to stop what I jokingly refer to as the back and forth based on the different groups that um that have been in charge of the HOA over the years. And so, um, this is a case where I am recommending, uh, I am recommending that the city council does adopt this agreement so that we can, um, move forward to some other important business of the city and and make the the current HOA uh, happy and move on to other business of the city. Happy to entertain any questions. Mr. Francis,

thank you, Mayor. I I like the agreement. I like the provisions you put in. I hate that you plan on concreting over the median because I think that's just a play by the new HOA board to finally get rid of that area. I think it's going to look horrible for the residents and and the notion that you can't make those turns. I went in and out of that tone with that that area for over two years with a 26 foot boat and a full truck and never had a problem getting in there. These these kind of things are set up to slow traffic down, not, you know, that's why you put the curves in the road and stuff. It It's just to to say that we want concrete in there so the trucks can run them over because they can't make the turn is ridiculous. And I know you didn't make that argument. That came from them. But, you know, it's it's it's just a ploy to get the grass taken out so nobody can ever change it again. So, that's my only problem with this agreement.

Thank you. But it's already done. It's both followed by Mr. Bentley. Concrete got put in. Yeah. Concrete's already done. Yes, it's there. Long story. Yeah. One, they did it. Nope. I mean, why is it being presented to us like it's got done? So, so this is the agreement in between the agreement putting this together and this meeting the concrete got done. The concrete got done uh by mistake but is very happily accepted by the HOA. Miss Fols, are you still the floor?

Actually, it looks good. And you might not have had an issue, but I because I'm short and when I come up over that hump, I had a problem seeing any of that stuff. So, um, no, I think it's it looks much better now than it did before. Doesn't matter. We don't have a choice.

Well, but it it Yeah. And that whether the concrete's there or not, I mean, the the agreement is the important part here. I I am upset that the concrete is there, but the concrete is there and I certainly can't go and take it out. Well, I mean, I we could go and take it out, but our land that wasn't this like the second time concrete got put in and didn't follow proper authorization. I mean, not who pulled No, not concrete. No, the concrete the the asphalt at the that was concrete

concrete at the park. Okay, Mr. Bentley, followed by Mr. Gaylord. Thank you. Do we not need a permit to put in concrete like that or do they not need a permit? Uh, no permit needed not to fill a concrete median.

Well, even though this may all be a moot point, I'm just going to make my point anyway. Um, I would like to see the city out of this business of owning that property. And we don't do it for any other neighborhood in West Auburn. I don't I do understand why we're doing it for them, but I don't want to do it anymore. Um, I was going to say I don't think we should have to match the price or 2500 2500. Um if I would like to see them if they want a concrete I think they should have paid for it and they've just been kind of running us around I think a little bit over the years not not this one time. Uh every time they've got a different council they want to do something different. So I know that you've put in here a clause that says well if they try one more time we're not we're not going to agree to it. But I would like since they've already done the concrete, just give it to them and say we're no longer responsible.

They do it or did we do it? It It was a city contractor. City contractor. Oh, that's a problem. God almighty.

I got nothing to say. I'm glad we have that on record. I want to give it to him and be done with it. But it's our road.

It It's Yeah. The The challenge is the rightway unlike any other uh subdivision entrance or neighborhood entrance. We we the city purchased this entrance to make this entrance and so the city retained ownership when they did that back in 2009. So unlike other entrances that HOAs or developers come and they propose and they they keep it as the common space or they keep it as their space, this particular one we own. It's this is our land, our entrance. You own the interior roads too.

The the interior roads are public roads, but this the actual two parcels that make up this entrance the city purchased and owned and retained. Okay. I uh we do not have any lights on and we're looking for a motion and a second to move on with this item. Okay. What needs to be the motion um to accept it? Um approve the first Okay. Uh approve the first the new first amendment to the license for the use of the city right away for Hollywood estates. I will make that motion as long as they pay the other $2,500.

Thank you. We have a motion from Miss Vultz and that's all we have. We have a motion from Miss Vultz.

Did they agree to that already? Miss Adams, is this a second? I don't think I can ask a question without a second. Yeah, we need a second. Mr. Bentley, okay. Damage is done. Miss Adams, your question. Do we have any other option being as the concrete's already in? Well, the the

I I feel like it's rhetorical, but I have to ask. Yeah, I the unfortunate part of the concrete is is being discussed, but really what this is is an agreement to try to concrete, if you will, for to use a pun on something that's uh been a source of frustration. We are trying to concrete this relationship in better language than what we were had originally. And so we're trying to put some parameters. We're trying to identify the areas of discussion so that we we know what we're talking about with them as they continue to change over boards. Ultimately, what we'd like to do is get out of the business of maintaining this one entrance. And so in the future, if they choose if they want to go more natural or they want to do some different landscaping, that's up to them. But then the maintenance is on theirs and the city's not responsible anymore. Is there any other changes they could attempt to make or ask the city to make other than what is currently included in what you're proposing?

They they could uh and they have in the past and I mean within the last year and a half they've gone natural and wanted to put different plantings in. Right. I mean other than natural versus concrete other than that category is there anything else they can then come back and forth and we're still going to have a back and forth. No, I I I think we have written this to solve this problem once and for all. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So, we have a motion on the floor from Miss Vult and a second from Mr. Bentley. All those in favor of uh All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay.

If you don't say nay, leave said I. So motion carries 70. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Okay, let's move on to the next item here. Um, 8 8C, Enterprise Resource Planning System Update. Mr. Bradford. Good evening, Mayor, Deputy Mayor, and Council members. Uh, so this is something we've been looking at for a couple of years. It's included in our uh CIP plan. Uh, and we have budgeted in the FY26 uh fiscal year uh an amount of 300,000 to uh perform this upgrade. So this will take a system that we've been using for 10 years and and migrate it to their cloud platform. Uh one nice thing about this is that uh many of the screens in the new platform uh are designed out of the gate to look similar and function similar to what our staff is used to today uh but with much more modern interface and and more functionality for automation. Uh and they're starting to wrap some AI technology into the new platform as well. Uh they are also adding some uh functionality that will allow better integration with thirdparty products uh which can be challenging today. Um so with the new platform they're building what's called an API that will allow this software platform to communicate with other software platforms. So that's something we're looking forward to as well. Uh in addition being web- based uh we're able to utilize uh tablets and smartphones. Uh there'll be an app coming out in uh 2026 uh to assist with inspection, field inspection. Um and so what we're asking for this evening is your authorization um to uh allow the city manager to execute an agreement with our current provider, but for the upgrade to the platform uh in the amount of $226,835. Uh this does incorporate uh implementation and training and data migration. Uh and so we're asking for an

additional approval of up to $50,000 in travel uh for them to come on site. Uh the way this typically works is kind of a hybrid of both uh remote work and then uh sending people here for doing the implementation and training particularly through go live. Um so that is our request but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Mr. Frampus, you have a question? I do.

Um, we bid this out in 2014 for this u software package. First of all, let me let me just be clear. Um, what is the software?

So, this system handles um it's about a dozen different modules that handle a variety of different things for the city. So it's the core financials uh so that's general ledger accounts payable purchase order uh cash receiping um fixed assets miscellaneous receivables uh also HR payroll uh handles our all of our utility billing and work orders for field work orders so that um when there's an issue and utility billing maybe there's a high water usage and they need to request that somebody go take a look at that particular property a work order will go in from utility billing makes it out to the field the field crew uh services that out in the field, completes that work order, it comes back to utility billing to finalize that process. Uh also inspection and um so building inspection and permitting goes through the system. Um and so it's it's really kind of a wide range of things across the organization.

So it's a quarter million dollars. What other uh what other software bids?

Sure. Yeah. So, so we we did survey uh so we use as you know we use demand star for a lot of our capital projects going out to bid. So we looked at that system to get sort of a feel for what the current market is and what the costs are. Uh so we found across several different customers some in Florida some not in Florida some recent uh bid prices for doing uh similar systems if we were to try to transition to some other software platform could easily be three to four times this cost. It wouldn't surprise me if we were to go down that pro go down that path and see, you know, north of a million dollars to migrate to some other platform. But because we're migrating from this company to their new software, it's much lower because they're migrating from databases that they're familiar with to databases they're familiar with. And the implementation and training will be lower because again, the system is designed so that it's easier to transition customers so that there's less training required. Um obviously there's it's a more modern interface and you can search and automate things and create more custom reports uh automate exports for um sending data outside the system. So there's more features and functionality that come with the new platform, but it's designed sort of out of the gate that it's an easier transition for existing customers.

I'm glad you brought up training because that was my next question. And we're talking about $60,950 and for 46 days worth of training. Is there's no value in having to train the trainer and we train our own staff? I mean, and that doesn't include the $50,000 in travel time that we're talking about bringing staff down and and that's that's a worst case scenario and we may not use that amount. Um that was sort of a worst case scenario number and ideally we won't use all that and then that would just stay with the city. But we we didn't want to that doesn't include the the training days numbers in here because that's included in that $226,000 price, not the $50,000 additional.

So, right, the travel is just the airfare, hotels, meals, the training is included. The training is package price. It is in the package price. Yes. But the travel time, you know, the hotels and airfare and all that is the 50,000. So it again it doesn't it wouldn't pay us to send somebody and learn the program.

I I think what we've learned in the past is that a that people really like to have someone standing over their shoulder especially during go live. And so it really helps sort of ease that level of anxiety when you're when you're changing systems. Even though this is less of a change than it might otherwise be, people still get a little bit nervous when you're changing systems. And so I think that we wouldn't want to reduce the training not including the it's almost 40% of the price not including the $50,000. So I was just I was shocked by you know $226,000 and 72,000 of it is in training. That seems like it's a high bar.

Well just upgraded to a cloud. So that's implementation and training. Excuse me. So that's like this just says training under training days for 60,949 950 that's under training days. Setup days is a different cost. Okay. Right. I see what you're saying. I'm just It just seems like for a cloud service that mimics what we're already using in your words, why so much in the addition?

Yeah. I think part part of the process and any anytime you're going to transition to a new system, even though the look and the feel kind of out of the gate, the screens are designed to look similar, so you don't have to go hunting around to find what you're looking for. Um that you're still reviewing your process at the same time. So we're going to be migrating data could vary depending on the module how much data we bring how many how many years worth of data we bring but um you know obviously we'll make sure we're meeting records retention and all that for what data we migrate but what what happens oftentimes during this training time is looking and reviewing your processes and procedures and seeing if there's any if there if there's any additional functionality that the new system brings that we could eliminate or streamline processes. And so part of that gets wrapped in.

So as far as the training 46 day training days, is that online training or is that in-person training? It so that's kind of up to us to work out with them as far as what we believe is necessary to have them on site. And that's where that allocation of the 50 comes in is if we determine that fewer travel days are necessary and that we can do some virtual training to reduce the cost, we certainly will. But if there are times like the go live when we really want to have some boots on the ground to help with that, then then that's where we would, you know, ask them to be here. I

I'm just we're getting charged for 46 days of training days. Basically, you're telling me none of that is in person unless we bring a trainer down. And so something that that is not included in this is actually the the one of the implementation team members that was here

when we first implemented nine years ago uh has committed to to come on site as well. So he has and it's not included in this. That's sort of free ahead of the time coming on site to help try to get some of those processes down to to make the process smoother. So, we actually get some additional days that are above and beyond what's in here. Um, but but I I wouldn't want to reduce the training. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Francis. Any other questions on this item? All right. We're looking for a motion in a second on this item. What's the wishes of the council? Mr. Bentley, if I could I'll make a motion that we support this effort and authorize the city manager to purchase this. All right. Thank you. We have a 226835. Thank you. I'm looking for a second. Miss Magguire,

it was 226. Yes, sir. Our recommendation is the 226835 uh plus uh approval for up to $50,000 in the training. Yes. My motion includes the travel or the training. MCU. Thank you, Mayor. I will second. All right. Thank you. We have no more questions. Miss Adams. But if that training is not required, you're saying that number could then go down. Correct. But we won't know what that is. you're not even willing to ballpark that in terms of seeing since you're the most I would think familiar with that system.

I don't know that we're going to know the extent of how much we would prefer to have them on site versus what could be done virtually um until we kind of get into it. And so that's why we're asking for approval to do that. Um, you know, we've budgeted this year even with that 50 is within the amount that we had allocated in the budget for this. Uh, but we certainly are always looking to try to save money and if there's a chance we can, we certainly will. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. All right. Thank you. All right. We have a motion on the floor um from Mr. Bentley and a second from Miss Maguire. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 6.

Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Next item.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. This item is a land transfer agreement deed and easement uh that we're requesting uh with uh St. John's Water Management District. Currently, the St. John's River Water Management District owns the parcel at roughly where you would think of as the end of Coastal Lane on the north end. Um that is not currently a right of way. However, as you can see uh by the overhead there kind of looks and acts like a right of way. Um this agreement would essentially uh would ask you to enter into an interlocal agreement between the district and West Melbourne uh for us to take control of this as right of way. Um, it includes a quick claim deed, which again is a deed that, uh, is pretty typical for something like this when you're not purchasing it. It's not a warranty deed. It's basically an ASIS, uh, deed. And, uh, non-perpetual permanent or excuse me, non-exclusive perpetual access agreement u, which allows St. John's to enter uh, the canal and or excuse me, the property and use it for their purpose. And ultimately, as you know, their purpose is to serve their canals and their water system. Um, and it also includes a cooperative agreement over the canal. Um, these four documents together essentially maintain the status quo operationally. It allows uh the utilities and there are several utilities that have utilities in that area uh to continue using them. uh but it also puts it in the hands of the city in terms of ownership and allows the city to create right of way. Ultimately, if the property of the north wanted to uh pave the road under city standards to allow them access to develop that property, this would allow them to do so uh subject to the easements. And um the next slide, as you'll see, so let me before I go to the next slide, this

slide shows kind of where our utilities are. um the water and the sewer connections. Um we don't have the GIS for the other utilities, but city of Melbourne uh the water management district obviously as well as FPNL all have utilities in that uh parcel. And if you go to the next one, are those water mains there? Melbourne's we have water and West Melbourne and Melbourne water and sewer there. The fenced in area that

No. No. Um, so the part of the fenced in area is over here. What we're saying is that, let me go back to this one here. Um, not depicted very well in the pictures, but I took a ride out there today in a large area with a bunch of water manes out there, and I'm wondering who owns them. So when when you say water manes, there's city of west Melbourne water manes and that's what we showed on here with a blue and then the red lines are our sewer lines above ground pipes that are coming

and there's also St. John's is doing that rediversion of the M1 canal going westbound. Now in addition to that somewhere in the proximity of the blue lines or blue and red lines is the city of Melbourne has a set of water and sewer lines. And so that that's why this area is congested with a lot of utilities and actions happening in it. And that's why it would be better to not have something that's not part of a rideway because you also have Florida gas that's that's St. John's,

right? That's going east west. Is that what the lines were, Mr. Roie? Okay. Right. But isn't that part of the property?

Do you see this where it says the 18 inch or 16inch PVC? Um, the St. John's is moving water. Remember, it's this rediversion. And they're here, by the way, from about where Yeah, they've stayed this long. From about where the the ball is, instead of going east towards the Indian River Lagoon, it's going west towards a wetland. So, it goes over the interstate. So, remember on the west side of that wet pond that you see on the screen, there's the interstate. And then you have the their lines continuing west into a big wetland area. So yes, in the same proximity as our east west 16inch line, there is what you observed.

It's a large concreted in area. I'm just curious. Absolutely. And that's part of St. John's. But that's why they they also have said that there are see all these dash lines here that there are areas that they need to have easements so that their assets are still protected. so that they're still able to to access it. That was another question I had on the assets. They're the they have a large um area to get down into the water, some some bulkhead areas there, some rip wrap there. I mean, is that we're going to have that doesn't transfer with the property then?

No, that remains under their their control. So Mark, do you want to describe a little bit about what types of facilities you have above ground and underground? I think that's the question.

Sure. Sure. Mark Hayden with St. John's River Water Management District, supervising professional engineer. So um so what you saw that big structure there is an intake structure. So the the overall project that takes water from the M1 canal there and through gravity goes into that structure. There's a gravity pipe that brings it into a pump station which is under construction in this picture here. So that pump station's 340 horsepower pumps just like a lift station. It's a a wet well and then the water um is pumped through a 24 in force man goes under I 95 into a into a saltwater pond. And honestly, my only concern is we're not responsible for any of it, and the cost isn't come back to the city in any way by us taking over this property. I saw a lot of money invested over there and I don't want to be responsible for it. If it's just us getting the road, I'm for it. If not, I don't want I don't want the responsibility of anything over there.

Right. And that's um honestly this is um we're here in support of the project but you know it's um this is something that the city requested when we were getting site development plans. So um it makes sense to have Yeah. The answer is we're not taking any of their facilities. We're taking the dirt and they have an access agreement uh through an easement so that they can continue to operate their facilities. The um the shaded area is what we're taking and I think what you're looking at is off to the left there. Correct. Well, it's all it's part of the shaded area as well and it and it's right up against that lake bank where the north area there where

so so all this agreement does is it allows us to take the dirt. There are no facilities that are included in this. We're not I thought I thought you mentioned it in the thing about the the stairways and everything that was in in the documents we're reading here. Right. So, so the land you would own, it would be rightway and then there's an easement that the district would be able to access and maintain our facility there. And then in addition, so overall, it's a 1.15 acre parcel. And then out of that, the district is going to retain about half an acre of that where our pump station is. But as far as the facilities there, if something happens to the steps, who fixes it?

But we would that the water management district would fix those? That's what I'm Thank you. Yeah. As you see, when we do the um the bills of sale for new developments, you know, in order for them to transfer their facilities, it would require a bill of sale that we would have to accept. Um this is only for the land. Uh they would continue to maintain all of their facilities that are over it and they have access obviously through the easement. How's the business back there that's currently there been crossing all these years? Because I I don't think St. John's excludes them from using it, but they just have been doing it, right? Just to answer your question, they just have been

certainly St. John's could exercise their property rights and junkyard or something. I just there's all kinds of Please don't say that. Please don't say it's a junkyard. No, I mean there's there's there's 50 vehicles back there. There there are I I agree with you and those uses sometimes we've gone through code enforcement cases. So I think it was in 2015 um there was a code enforcement case that required moving some of the materials that were on that property um out of the city. Look at it. Yeah, we we can certainly look at that again.

Right. And there is I mean this corrects an encroachment. There's a there's a city rightway just to the east of our parcel and so um but the road goes into into the district lane there. Yeah. The the right of way that we have um is through this area and it's actually sort of ends here. Well, if you go to the next if we have the canal and then the 40T I know we have the canal

which is what you're saying here. There was a lot of discussion back and forth between the county surveyor and our team. So it it's technically called canal right away in that area that 40T that's just east of yours. That's why this becomes so valuable to the city. It's not going to be labeled canal right away. Any other questions on this item? Have any other comments? I have no lights on. What's What are the wishes of the council? This is um the subdivision that's here. Is that the new town houses? The subdivision on the right?

No, that's um what is what was the Oasis? I think it's called the Asalia Apartments. They're just market rate apartments. Okay, that's what this is.

I'm sorry. that that's okay. That was it. That's the gist of it. Softly quiet in here. What are the wishes of the council? Mr. Roie, what's your what's your opinion? I know you so much like

Yeah, I'm doing I'm doing well on opinions tonight. Um, this is a very important item for us. Uh what it's trying to do is true up essentially where that road that is in use then will now become city right away in case that road ever goes north. Right. So at some point in time, those parcels, the one the one that's in a little disarray and then the parcels north of that that are in between the canal and the freeway, which if this picture were to to be able to go north um will keep the city having access to that area and be able to put a city road in at some point. And so this is this is an important item for us to get under our ownership so that we can help control it. I think St. John's has been a really good partner with this and working on and it's it's your classic infill challenge where I think St. John's wishes they had about five acres to do all this work in and unfortunately they got about five feet. And so, you know, we're we're now now that they're in and and they're established. Uh I know uh the team has been working with St. John's and Christiey's done a good job to try to true up and represent what where that road actually is so that we do have as much land as possible. So, at one point in time when the road goes north, it can fish hook a little bit and continue up north.

Mr. Krampus, but we didn't put the road in yet, right? The there Yeah, the road The road dies. Yeah, the road it it goes gravel. Based on your opinion solely, um I make a motion we approve the city manager to execute the following four bullet points on this request. Thank you, Mr. Gaylord. I'll second.

And uh just to be perfectly clear, uh this does have to go to the St. John's River Water Management Board. Uh, and it will go next month. I believe the date is December 9th. Um, and so this won't be formally approved until their board approves it. Uh, but in order for them to approve it, they need us to approve it first. Your motion is it did you say four bullet points? Yes, there are four agreements that need to be executed. Not three, but four. So your motion is with all four with all all of the bullet points. All of the bullet points.

Okay. And we have we have a motion from Mr. Frampus and we have a second from Mr. Gaylord. All those in favor signify by saying I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries. 70. All right. Thank you. Annual review of city attorney's performance. Miss Kuran. Good evening. City Council members, good evening.

Good evening. So, our city attorney, Mr. John Kerry, was appointed as a city of West Melbourne city attorney effective on November 29 of 2022 as required by his employment agreement. The city council is tasked with evaluating his performance each year. Evaluation responses were received from each council member and compiled into a summary document that was included with your staff report. Mr. Car's overall score averaged a 3.92 out of five, which generally meets or exceeds performance standards. I'm requesting a motion to accept the summary document and thereafter, if the city council chooses to discuss Mr. K's performance and or a salary increase.

All right. Thank you. Comments, Mr. Bentley. I would make a motion. That's what you were looking for. Yes, sir. That we accept the annual review of the city attorney. All right. Thank you. We have a motion from Mr. Bentley. Miss Adams. I'll second that motion. We have a motion from Mr. Bentley and a second from Miss Adams. All those in favor of accepting uh please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed say nay. Motion carries 70. Mr. Mr. Bentley, are we looking at the second half now, Mayor?

Yes, we are. So, I kind of went through and did four or five calculations to show kind of where where I thought it should come out to, Mr. Ry. I think we did three and a half% am I correct for the city employees this year as average? Average 3.5, sir. Thank you. So with that information and then I looked at where he was in the pay band and where he's low from a midpoint perspective. Um so I would make a recommendation that we give him a 4% review which would take his salary to 174,643.

All right, Mr. Francis. Any other comments? All right, we have a motion on the floor from Mr. Bentley and we have a second from Mr. Frampus to um give Mr. Carry a 4% raise on his contract. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those oppos say nay. Motion carries 70. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Karan. All right. Council reports. Mr. Bentley,

thank you. I just have one thing I would mention in case it ever happens again, although I think it only happens like every 10 or 15 years. I did go to the farm event and I wasn't expecting to have a good time, but I had a good time. Um, those guys out to the west of us, there's two farms. One's privately owned and the other's uh publicly owned uh public company. The tour went from something on the order of nine o'clock to three o'clock in the afternoon. They fed us lunch. Uh, as you would think, it was a hamburger, right, with a cow out there. Poor cow. But, uh, we learned a lot. We We learned the size of the ranches. We learned how we're one of the leading areas for cattle in the state of Florida and in some places throughout the United States. I mean, they do a lot of work out there. They sell cattle, they sell sod, um, and and other things. So, the family business is really working hard to keep it alive. They have on the order of 40 employees, most of them all family members. Um, the other one's quite large, has over a hundred people working there. But, uh, if you ever get a chance again, they say they only do it once in a once or twice in a lifetime. So, if you get the second time, uh, go out and see the tour. It's really nice. They they they do a bang up effort and you'll learn a lot.

That's it. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Gaylord.

Hi. I just wanted to say I attended the uh St. Francis Hospice event at Sunflower for uh Veterans Day and uh we uh did a brief overview of a soldiers service from uh World War I and um that was just a great a great event. Uh we had a couple veterans there uh giving over of uh their service and their time in the military. Um so just wanted to say that I really appreciated that and I just wanted to say I thank all of our men and women that are serving and uh all those that are retired. And um secondly, I wanted to congratulate Council Member Adams on her adoption uh today. That event was uh u very well attended and uh it seemed like a seemed like a very happy moment for her and Josh. Um, so just wanted to say congratulations.

All right. Thank you, Miss Magguire. Keep it easy. No report tonight. The report. Okay, Mr. Francis.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, well, Mr. I'd like to formally request a report on the concrete debacle, how that got approved before it came to council for approval and and what disciplinary actions being taken to the employee that authorized it. So, can you do that for us? happy to look into the matter. Wait, you don't know? I'm happy to look into the matter

and please feel free to email those information to us. Thank you. Is that it, Mr. Francis? All right. Thank you, U, Miss Adams. Thank you, Mayor. I had a couple things that I've done since, uh, the last meeting, but in reality, I'd probably just like to highlight one of them. Um, six of the seven members of this council attended National Adoption Day. Go ahead. Nope. Go ahead and cry. You're entitled to it.

No, I thought I was good. Um, I made notes, so I think I'm just going to stick to my notes. All right, Miss Bz. I'm going to stick to my notes. We're good. We we can come back.

I thought I could I thought I could wing it. I can't. I didn't cry today, so that was that was a big deal. Uh your your presence meant a lot. Thanks. Your presence meant a lot to the 15 families that adopted from foster care today. Sorry. um especially to my husband and I. Um sorry, trying to keep it together. Um

as we're in a public professional meeting, doing my best. Uh it just meant a lot to me that you guys showed up uh as we adopted our son. A couple of you have asked about uh whether we're going to continue to serve as foster parents. So, I wanted to share that we will. I think it's been one of the hardest things that we've ever done, but potentially I think the most impactful thing. And so it's part of the reason that I wanted to bring it up in my council report tonight because personal things are are personal and don't necessarily need to be brought up on this dis. Um, but I also wanted to share uh for those that didn't know that Bvard County currently has less than 80 foster families. There's more than 300 kids in foster care and we have multiple children uh hoping to be adopted. So, I chose to bring that up tonight because not only did I want to thank you uh but I also wanted to share uh with you guys and with the public that if you know of people that are interested in learning more about fostering or adoption, uh the local agency that's here in Bvard County is Family Partnerships of Central Florida. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you, Miss Wils. Yeah. Um, and I do want to say congratulations to to you. Um, that is a huge undertaking. Um, and you'll be awesome, mom. Awesome. Um, I did also go on that farm tour and we almost saw a baby cow being born. Half of it was out and they said, "Well, we can't stay here an hour and wait for the finished product." But we really wanted to stay. But they said, "No, we couldn't." But you're right, Pat. We learned so much about what they do out there and how important it is and just incredible. Um I did and attend the Hollywood Estates Veterans Day event which was very very nice. Um and then I I've got a an issue that Chief I don't know whether you might be able to give me some direction on this. Um, one of my neighbors has, well, we live by the school and there's a lot of kids that kind of hang out waiting for their parents to pick them up. Cars sometimes are just everywhere there. And as many times as people have complained, they still go there. But somebody um has put um old food boxes

stuffed in her mailbox like with old food in it so that the mailman had to leave her mail in the other person's mailbox. And they also put either honey or something sweet to attract red ants. And her neighbor had to clean it all up. She said it happened last year several times and now it's starting to happen again. She doesn't have a camera at all. And I don't know if we have like a camera we could

How about I uh how about I get with you offline and we discuss it and get all the specifics and how we can help address it. So happy to get out there and all right find out who's because she's just afraid of what you know what she might open her mailbox and find. So um okay I'll work with you on that.

Perfect. Thank you. And that's all. That's all. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Uh, so I also have a very very busy week. It was it was Veterans Day and uh it was also the 250th birthday for the Marines. So on the 10th I went over to the VFW for the 250th birthday celebration and it was terrific. There were just Marines everywhere. Um they they gave them lobster and um prime rib and and shrimp and just everything that you a marine could possibly want or anybody else for that matter. So it was a it was a wonderful event. Then the next day for the actual Veterans Day itself went to Buenavita. They had a wonderful wonderful uh event there. Was very very successful. I did go to Hollywood Estate so Helen but by the time I got there there was only two people left. So I did not make it there in in time. But it was a really great event. Sunday TPO had an event for visions there. It was a world remembrance day of remembrance and it was remembrance for the people who have been lost due to car accidents. And uh a list of about 30 people were read. Um the oldest one on there was from 1950 and uh the most recent was within the last 90 days. It was July, just July 10th. Um in fact, you may have heard there was a white ghost bike out there where it happened. a 93 year old person ran over an 80 year old person and the 80-y old person on the bike didn't do so well. So, it was a solemn event and it was again it was very very well done. TBO, hats off to them. They did a great job. Leah um Leah is the one who put that together out there. I also went to the adoption today. That was a great event. The those kids and those families were just so happy to be together. It was really I can see why you do that. It was really really fulfilling for the parents and things that were there. So, that was that was my week. Any other comments? We're going to move to management reports. Any other thing else

before we move to management? All right, Mr. Roadie. Uh, just one comment. Congratulations to the new Adams family. Good luck. That's it. Okay. No. No Pugsley or Wednesday. Okay. Mr. Carrie.

Well, I can't believe it's been three years. Thank you all so much for the reviews. I really appreciate the feedback. Um, thank you to Council Member Adams for inviting me. It was a really touching, uh, moving ceremony. I have a heart for adoption myself, as you know, as an adoptive father, and um, you know, I I will certainly, uh, think long and hard about your admonition about fostering. So, thanks. That's it. Okay. All right. Any other comments for the good of the order? So, we will adjourn and we'll see you here in two weeks. Thank you. at 90.