Historic District Review Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, the meeting is now in order. Okay, the draft materials first order businesses. Good. All this is amazing. Hey Todd. Hey guys. Hello. Uh for you.

Yeah, we're reviewing the uh the materials that Lauren prepared. Yeah. Where which one are we starting with? Uh why why don't we start with the first one which is the application right? Oh list for new applications. Yeah you had the new improved application. Okay but all right. So the reason that this that I did that is because when we met with the lawyer like way back and I don't remember when December he was saying that all of the other boards have more streamlined um application

well um descriptions of the application process and so he sent me the zoning board I think you were also on the email the zoning board checklist that they have which is extremely streamlined and then there's also the thing that is already online um which has a lot of incorrect information because um fees are ch fees have changed the meeting schedules have changed you know like last year so we need to update it in some way and that's what this is um don't we have a description of the application process as part of the standards

as part of the standards Yeah, I don't think so. I think it is it part of the standards or is it like online and it's just it's like a thing that you look at that is clearly like a xerox of a thing. Well, uh I can remember that the standards that we prepared in 1999 had the application but u button did it.

Yeah. Great. Thank you, Abby. But um the mayor decided that that wasn't good enough and they she when we were working the new and updated standards I thought it had uh you go on the website I think I sent you guys the link there's a the sidebar right that gives you options so you can look at current applications you can look at the HB app get the village code um eight ways to your historic home and the second option application instruction for certificate appropriate and then steps to securing a certificate.

Yeah. And I think that's the link that I sent you guys because that's what people when anyone when any person is going to look at how do I do this that's what they look at and it's a little confusing and it's filled with a lot of dates that are not no longer actual dates. Um, and the zoning board has updated theirs and the planning board has updated theirs and it seems like it would be a good idea for us to do ours as well. And so what I did was take what we had already online and take what the zoning board did and kind of merge them together um as if they're strapped for us all to look at as like a springboard. Look at that. Yeah,

but I don't think it has the application process in here. That's only what is on the website.

Yeah, I just scanned it and I didn't I didn't I didn't see the application in there. Yeah. Who must apply to the HDRB and how it work? Page 10. for general, right?

It's general, but this is not like when you click on that link that I sent you. Yeah. There's that whole other sheet that I sent the link to that shows up and it's not this. It's right. I I remember I opened it when I had a chance to read through it,

but um Okay. I I I think Um, how about page 12? Steps to securing a certificate of well I mean my question is is that uh I think probably a separate sheet makes sense or other you know because uh the question is whether or not people actually read the design standards. I mean, yeah,

but yeah, but I think that so what everyone what the other boards did is have this sheet that's like instead of many pages, it's it's like very clear couple of pages or three pages so it's easier to find things and then has no reference to like the code or anything or the dates or the dates or when the meetings are. So it for example the zoning board passes something out that says like this is when we meet this is when the application deadline is and it's very clear what the processes.

Okay. Does anybody have any any comments or suggestions concerning what uh Lauren prepared? Uh I made one comment in the document and then I just kind of sprinkled a few little addition uh throughout namely like under the um each of like kind of the subsection for fencing applications, roof replacement, etc. I just sort of added the the the um photos that would be good for each assuming that I think you're on a different thing though. Oh, sorry. Which one are we?

That's the right Al. This is the general guidance for new applications. Oh, okay. All right, cool. Sorry. But but yes, that's also a thing. Um yeah, I went through this and I think I added a few things here and there. Um just little little changes. Um

okay. I I I mean my feeling is is that a separate uh separate document to assist people that they can have to assist people when they're uh filling out uh the application or uh starting the process I think is a good idea. Um and uh I'll leave it up to you guys to work out exactly what you think should be in that sheet. Right. So Lauren, you Lauren helpful, right? Because you're like reading it and you're like, "Well, what's that?" And then you go to the you click on it and get to the filing schedule or something.

So Lauren, you're you're imagining that this is on our on the village website under our section just on the green column on the left, right? As like like this would be a like steps to getting an application. And instead of the previous document which doesn't have any embedded links or anything, this is like, oh, if you want to read the village code, here's the link. If you want to do this, this replaces that document. This would replace that document. Yeah. Sorry. No, that I think that's I think that's great. And this is something that the when we met with the lawyer, he recommended that we do this. Yeah.

And it's kind of been something that I just have been putting off for. I think and and I think my feeling was that it's it's good to say about scheduling a workshop and when those could be and um so I I added in sort of more things that are in that previous document um and then put things in kind of bullet form that I felt were easier to read if you're scanning the document.

But um again, this is just a total first try. So if there are other Yeah, I mean I I think it's a pretty comprehensive list. I um again, I just made a couple like very small. I think even just some of it was formatting stuff to make it a little bit clearer, but um in general I didn't have any real significant contributions. I think you did a great job of covering everything. I I I can I'll definitely read give it another read through um this week, but I think in general it's great.

Yeah. and the link the linkable like the linkable content within it um will be super helpful. Right. So just everybody on the board uh take a look at these three documents that Lauren prepared. If you have any comments by the end of next week uh if you can get those comments to Lauren and then uh you know I'll leave it up to you as to whether they're incorporated or not. All right. It's up to you, Lauren. You got it. The ball is in your in your court.

Can we shift to the second document for supporting applications material? Yeah. All right. Look at the second document. Oh, yeah. This is something we've been talking about for a while, right? to just be like when we're asking for applications so it's really clear like when Aby's communicating with them or when we are communicating with them like all applications should have X information XYZ information and then maybe there's also an additional ABC information or D or E or F or whatever that people are you talking about ideas for HDRB lectures and programming

no this is the porting application material and so sometimes someone who's wants to build a fence will have like a hundred different documents and it's the thorough most thorough application you've ever seen and then someone who wants to do an audition has like a sketch on the napkin, right? So, this is helping everyone understand for their type of application what they need and so Abby also has this list and can advise when applications come in what people will need so that they don't wait three weeks get to a meeting and find out really they should have had more and to come back again. So,

I think it also it also kind of gives us um it makes it a little bit easier for us to take a firmer stance um without with less sort of awkward uncomfortable like, oh, you didn't know you were supposed to. And then they you get the Saab story and then all of a sudden you're doing um talking about something that you really have no business talking about when you don't have the right documentation. Um and so many times people save everybody a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah. people come in and they just got like black and white photocopies of terrible scanned images and you're kind of like what are we looking at and you've it forces us to well it forces them to be more prepared. So I think this is really great

and nobody ever shows up with a historic photograph. So I think if we at the get-go say like please please make the effort to bring a historic photograph in and then here's where you can find one then that's like that's a way to to do that. What green beverage are you drinking Todd? It's a it's a selzer. Okay.

Um Okay. Now, the one thing which um I I I do think we, you know, we should push on it and uh basically Kimberly and I are the ones sort of responsible for moving this thing is the um uh the the uh survey information. Oh, and that could get linked. That could also be on the website like, "Hey, check check out link." Another resource where they could Right. Well, that that's what I I think.

Yeah, we should probably I I wouldn't put on put it on the list right now because, you know, we really haven't moved very far on that. But I think that that is something that ultimately should be on this list and it should be the uh what should be listed is what the the library has not what we have. Wait, but not on this list. This list is a

this list that we're talking about, the supporting application materials list. This list is like these are the things you need and we're just generally saying a historic photograph. But then there's another list that is like a research guide. that yeah link to the research I started making that I don't think so just says refer to list of research research okay so I just like that was very rough and I started putting that together of like things that people could go like you can go to the pet history museum in the database and you could do this and you can find let's go and here's the national report that nobody has so these are things that we could provide really accessibly to everybody and then they could

just do it Okay. Well, that and also one of the things that we need to think about is whether or not uh we want to have uh this reference material, the research material uh on our website or would it would be better off on the uh library website? I think the more that we can handle on our website that links out to other resources that exist on other websites, meaning we're not hosting all that data. I I think the village website is makes the most sense in my mind.

I know, but I mean I am a little bit concerned as far as the capacity of the uh the village website. So just something we can ask them. We can ask them. Yeah. what is the capacity and if it's not then it can be out first for the library but sorry I think the way we're thinking from what I understand this would just be a a quick link you know this application and instructions and the document we're looking at right now um supporting application materials so when you're in here and it says you should get a historic photo of your house refer to the list of research resources that resources

so that that list that has a bunch of links, right? So, we could have maybe in this green column on our main HRB page, you know, current applications, map of historic district, like great resources and you click on that and then it's 10 things. The library has everything. Go to the library. Here's that link. The second one, Pton History Museum has something. The third, Crisp, look up your building and crisp and just that's it. Yeah, I actually did. I'll share it with you guys now. directing you like the index, right?

I started making a list of research stuff. Um I didn't finish it and I was also like I'm not sending you like 12 things. So I'm going to show it to you now. Um because I actually did do it or started it. Um I think I just did it. I think you guys already have access. It's on the drive. It's called helpful reference resources for applicants. And then you can, so I for example have written down here, here's the HDR guidelines. Here's the National Register of Historic Rehabilitation Standards. Here's different preservation briefs, which I've looked through that and have found different um ones that we should put on. Here's the Putinham history museum. Here's the link to the Cold Spring book, uh the CPIA book, right? The West Point Boundary CPIA book. Here's all the lo here's the link to the local history room at Butterfield Library. At some point, Cassie from the Putnham History Museum sent Kate and I a really awesome list of ways to research buildings. Um, so that we could put that kind of stuff on there, too. Um, also like helpful books like the Field Guide to American Houses that people because like people just don't know what these are. So if they look they can like get it out of the library or something or like

Well, do we have the the list of books that uh Butterfield Library has? Um you mean in the lo What do you mean? Well, they have a whole section for uh for us. Yeah. Well, not for us, but for local history. Well, so I think the general link would be like here is the local history room and then you go there and you find about your about your building. Right. It just it seems like it'd be nice to have uh if nothing else aged.

Sorry, it's here. I didn't send it because I didn't want to overwhelm everybody. You would never over Maybe Todd because he's not in California, but Oh, but yeah. And this is And I also Did you Lauren? Did you email it or No,

no, it's on the drive. It's I just It's on the drive. Everybody has access to it. It's called helpful reference resources for applicants. And that is just that's just what I wrote there. Um, and then there's just a list of different things that I think we should have um we should have people should have links to just the general public so that they know where to find more information about their building and then can think more

because the other thing that we need to sort of tie into this to make it all fit very nicely is uh the three appendices. that still need to be done for the standards. And if I remember correctly, I think one is a, you know, bibliography of some sort. Um, one has to do with painting. I think I even put a book

and one is a bibliography and the third one I don't remember what what it was. Um, yes, that is something I think at some point me and Kate are said we would do that and then the holidays happened and then there were 10 million remote school days and I feel there weren't but it felt like that. So I just 8 million remote school days and there was a lot of snow and I just didn't do those things. Kate and I didn't eat. So, but Kate and I can we were emailing about it a little bit to figure out um what those what that should be and what has to be supplemented.

Um so guidelines uh guideline four is selected guidance on materials conservation where page page two page two guys I love these books. You don't have a book but there's a book now. There's like a book here that you can like look through. Oh, yeah. No, I I I have it. Uh I just I have the digital on my computer. I'm pulling it up right now.

So, uh four five is uh selected guidance on materials conservation paint. Um so, there's a section on paint. Um there's a section on stone and masonry. uh sustainable building design and historic preservation and helpful resources. So I I think that uh we should probably work within the context of what we have. I I think that um you know when we come up with the helpful resources I mean I'll leave it up to you guys. Do do we want to uh make it as part of this this document the standards or um I I think that certainly the um description of the process the what the way you had described it should be a standalone document but I mean maybe some of this other stuff uh really just So

yeah and they can be linked to within that first document so that people can get it easily. Can I ask a question actually because I don't actually know to these questions. So um when you guys were talking about guidance on materials conservation and paint like what were you what was the

Well that sort of goes back to uh you know a couple of issues that that are peculiar to what we're dealing with. One is um the uh the fact that we we have no say over color. But the thing is is that the paint that is used to uh that that is applied to masonry and brick work uh is needs to be breathable. And you know there's a little bit of a discussion of different types of paint and and how that uh you know the peculiarities and applicability of the different types of paint. Okay. So

it does it seems a little like that just has to do with like the the breathability of the paint. Right. In other words, what about seed oil paint? Were you thinking about talking about linseed oil paint for wood or just like latex? Well, I I mean we you can we can talk about it because you you've got uh not only paints but also stains, right? Uh and so, you know, when they're applied, you know, what the uh the logic is. There are a number of of different topics that can be covered that we, you know, we could um make available to applicants.

How far along did these get? like this is clearly it was determined these are the topics with paint. Was there like a rough outline done of in that section what needed to get covered or were there a few paragraphs written? We didn't see that right? I don't know if they saw anything. Did it get those files get a little bit choppy and I wonder it could like easily be on someone's computer or just in a subfolder. By the time I entered this was like well underway and I think it was already decided that these few things were going to be tabled for the time being just to get the bulk of the document out. So I really don't remember any discussion about these about these separate items that were left off.

Okay. It does seem to me that like I don't know there's there's so much about paint and masonry, but to just choose those two things and not then have a separate um selected guidance on wood siding and windows and trim and roofing material. Like I I don't I don't really know why those couple things were selected as like needing to be flushed out by us, right? It kind of seems like they don't need to be because why would we choose those two things when we're not discussing in great detail historic windows and roofing materials and all sorts of things.

But we aren't discussing in detail windows. Uh resource guide one uh design standards they talk about windows. The thing is what what page is that? seven and eight. I I mean, you know, we're not talking about a huge uh dissertation on on these topics. What we're talking about is uh you know uh seven and eight. I'm not seeing anything about

of the design standards A to Z. So to your point, Todd, I wonder if paint belongs in this section A to Z. Yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying like the the the section in the a toz those are tiny little blurbs like

I I know and and I think that that was that was the thought process behind it uh was that you know we we uh covered it under the uh design guidelines a toz because that's the way our original design guidelines were written and it was a good format because people uh you Well, they they have a a certain question concerning windows. They go to that section and they can read what our thoughts are concerning the windows. But um there are there were certain things which did not fit in nicely here. For example, the the business about the paint uh and for for example, I think it would have helped uh with the uh you know the business about painting the brick. Uh well, and there is a on page five there is a a small little blurb about a thing.

I wonder if that could simply be expanded. Like windows get almost a full page and change. Right. I mean the reason it was kept short was because we were anticipating uh you know the the the appendix. Yeah. So an appendix on paint generally could um be a kind of like outline of the various types of paints available and which ones are appropriate for which surfaces. Yeah. I and and we're not talking about the colors of the paint. We're talking about the you know how paints are used as a as a functional right

don't deteriorate the building level of understanding. like that's what we're talking about just as on a material level, not an aesthetic level, but I would argue that it might be fun for some people, even though we don't regulate it, to have an to have a link to like if you want to know what color your house was. Um, here's a book that talks about historic paint colors and here are the paint schemes that some that were used like during this period to this period if you are interested or you could hire hire a conservator and explain that process and like talk about that. So I because I think that's a fun thing that people might want to know.

They don't have to do it but it's like a it's sort of like a fun thing to know about the house. And also the the same thing with masonry. The masonry is very short piece on on page four and it refers to uh the resource guide which is yet to be written.

So what was what was you so I think we have the paint kind of like what you guys were thinking about paint but what would you what were you guys thinking about um stone and masonry when you did that? Well, um there I think that there are certain types of masonry. I mean brick and stone. Stone seems to be, you know, a consistent problem. The you know as far as the applicable the the stone that really makes that is typical of the the district. Um, you know, I think that we have, for example, the stonework that is down by Depot Square. Um, and I I forget there's actually a name. Look at the mason who used to do it. And and basically it's round stones as opposed to um, you know, rectangular. Uh

so like cut versus a more organic shape of stone grass versus sandstone, right? There are things like that that and also I think that uh I guess I I need to dig into the materials that we have. Did you get that? Did you get the stuff from um what's his name? Who's the guy that Lloyd? Yeah, Lloyd. uh as far as just what's on the just what's on the um Google Drive which is what I shared with Lauren and Kate.

Okay. All right. Because I I I think that had started the process of writing those had started and it just hadn't progressed very far. So that may give us some uh information as far as other things that are being done. So just for my mind because I'm not clear. So you guys were thinking you're thinking about you're saying these are the types of stone and the ways the stone were treated um typically in this area when the historic district was uh or when the buildings in the historic district were built or are you focusing more on repair like replacement or repair? Are you talking about mortar joints and profile like Yes, all of those.

All of it. Okay. So that's a that's a pretty big Yeah. And and the thing is is that um it also goes back to things that you know typical problems that we've had with applicants and what they have done with the uh with the exterior with stonework. Funny the one area where I feel like we should regulate color is mortar joint. So like you know for example you know stuff like this I see where they talk about uh you know how

the stone is stone work is incorporated um for tips and resources on historic color selections and approaches in conserving or res restoring painted surfaces may stipulate a particular color scheme. And then maybe we say we can say that grinder when you're Yeah.

What we have listed here says brick masonry and ceramics should reflect the age and style of the structure. We may want to expand on that a little bit. we can be more specific about what we mean

and how to repair it in an appropriate way so we don't get a fantastic repointing in the world. Well, I I think essentially what I'm encouraging is that uh we should probably build on this and this is a a you know a pretty good document that was a lot of money was spent on and a lot of effort was put into um and there are certain pieces of it that uh just need to be fleshed out. So I think that rather than uh just shoving it aside we should probably

I don't think we have to we should totally be built on this right this is what we have right this is but but there are sections to come so these are the sections that need to have a little more right detail and elaboration and clarity about what the concepts we're talking about or the specifics that we're talking about.

Okay. So what about sustainable building? What were you guys thinking for that? Well, that goes to the issue of uh, you know, somebody's doing a a building renovation, they're updating their house, and so, you know, the question becomes, uh, how do you do that and, uh, upgrade the, uh, insulation levels? Um, and I've got uh I think I've got some uh documents from um the uh National Park Service which talks about it because obviously that was that was a big feature for on a lot of our projects. And and then you have, you know, guys like um Hudson River designed, what's his name?

JK River. Huh? Jamie Cleveland. Yeah. Passive. Pass or Yeah. I mean, where he wanted to have 500 our our value 500 in the roof and 300 in the walls. uh and just don't have any places. I'm be sure well that their office that was uh supposed to be an example of his his work. Um but anyways preservation briefs etc.

Right. But I I I think that what we may want to talk about is specific to to what we uh what we're dealing with in the village as far as um you know, if we're if we're not uh if we don't want uh people ripping off the exterior and sticking um insulation in, you know, between the studs and then slapping on some uh plywood and siding and stuff like that. That it's very um the the uh the surface material which is typically the historic fabric uh is is very vulnerable to uh destruction in that process. And so I think that we have what we have to do is um you know uh lay put down some recommendations that we have as far as being making the uh the structure more compliant. And you know and the thing is is that the uh the energy conservation code has certain um requirements which I I would assume are being met on the inside rather than the outside. So I mean we we need to take a position on that.

That's a really tough position to take. But I did include that as a potential lecture item for like later because that just I mean there's a debate among everybody about what is the most appropriate way to to inolate and make a make a historic building more energy efficient. There's a gazillion different approaches that everyone thinks is the best form.

I I I I don't know. I mean realistically uh I don't know if there is really that much debate over uh how to what we wind up dealing with is is the envelope. All right. I mean you know when it comes to mechanical equipment you can get the most uh efficient mechanical systems that we can think of and and it really it's not something that we would do. Uh we do encourage solar uh which is which helps but uh basically the biggest um issue that we wind up dealing with is uh the enclosure uh bringing that up to the R values that the energy code uh typically calls for. And so, you know, realistically, um, what that means is that, um, if we don't want them to rip off the exterior and and maybe there are some buildings where, uh, you know, the exterior is something which we don't especially are not especially concerned about. I mean, uh, if If if a building is uh is more recent then theoretically it it would have been built closer to the standards than uh than most of the older houses. It's the older houses which um which have the historic fabric that we would be looking to protect as much as possible. Those are the ones that need the most intervention.

That's true. There's no no insulation, right? And how do you do that with preserving, right? And and the other thing, for example, is that they very often did is uh there is no sheathing because the the framing was just balloon framing and and they had lead and braces and stuff like that. So the sighting is just, you know, nailed to the uh there's no vapor bearing. Yeah.

That um I've upgraded houses that typically use cellulose, but you can't in the cavity, but you can't get the R value that modern code. Well, you can if you want to add to the inside, you can always fur out and well, you have to take take down all the walls to the stud fur it out and then take your plaster walls away, right?

Yeah. It's a hard it's a really hard thing. It's just a very like there's no I don't think there's any one standard that we can apply to anybody, but we can talk about considerations maybe. Well, I I think I think I think that what we need to do is uh we need to give people some direction as far as what we would recommend.

I mean, it's not our job to enforce the energy code. That's the building inspector. Um but um you know, we can uh provide recommendations on what we think would be a way of doing it. I mean the one thing to keep in mind is that um uh rigid insulation is probably a lot more uh energy efficient than bad insulation. And so you can probably But how do you get it in there?

Well, that's just that you you'd have to um you know put take out your plaster walls in the L and then put sheetrock up. But I I really like my horsehair plaster walls. Yeah. Well, that's just it. I mean, I mean, the alternative is to to remove the exterior or that. Yeah. But it's it's a hard, right? This is a hard thing to to deal with. So I it's so it I think this would be a really interesting topic to have a lecture on

that um we can hear some like people who are dealing with a field and like what the solutions are. Um even maybe a panel discussion or something would be interesting. Um I personally don't I I don't know how anybody else feels I do not feel comfortable like writing any kind of guidelines on this because like I myself am very torn about all of it. Um, even in my own house, like I've got awesome aged historic cladding and I've got awesome horsehair plaster walls and there's no sheathing and there's no insulation and I'm just like, what?

No, it's really it's really hard and we're trying, you know, my husband and I are trying to come up with all kinds of crazy solutions where we remove the cladding and we put some insulation in between the studs and then put the historic cladding back on. But like that's insane. So, I don't really know what the solution is really. Well, one thing what you can do is um Yeah. is what? Well, gyms pack cellulose and then you would have to put penetrations in each one of the bays. Yeah. Top and bottom. Yeah. And then blow it in and then maybe there's water issues probably

and then you got a bunch of rotting in your walls. So, yeah. It's not breathing the way the house was meant to. This is a very complicated issue. So I I I think it's it's a topic that we maybe we can provide links to articles or something like that.

Well, I I I think I think that we should take it on as something to investigate. Some of these other things are pretty uh pro- fora. But I think that this is something which is um uh would require a little bit of research and um discussion and um you know maybe we do in fact get a um somebody to write a a proposed section on this. Uh maybe it's something that we can get a grant from Shipo to have somebody um prepare an appendix

or what if we I mean these meetings these lectures could get recorded right if we found someone who was good we'll record it and then we can embed that on our website it might be a as an interim step I mean the appendix would be amazing but maybe as an interim step so we I don't think articles and preseration briefs that people can look that yeah do their own research. Yeah. I I don't think that we're going to have find information which is definitive one way or another. No.

So so it would you know it may be a a a lengthier appendix and then the last uh appendix is the the resource guide. So helpful resources. Yeah. And and we started that when we uh when we did the the butterfield library things was we made a list a bibliography which I remember we edit it and sent it over to them. Oh, like Sean put the bibliography together. The one that Sean did. Well, uh I don't I don't think Sean did it.

Okay. And well, I I think that there is a bib bibliography that we prepared to be sent over Butterfield Library. It was when Sean was here though. I think that's why that's why I'm associating him.

Okay. Um but uh I think that what we need to do is uh get moving on survey because even though uh it's not going to be um final because uh obviously uh as the survey um exists we'll we need to curate it and we need to send it over to Butterfield Library and and put have them put it on their on their website, whatever they're going to do, and need to find out what it is that they're planning to do. Okay, so we've got our work cut out.

Um, and Todd, what part are you going to take care of? Uh, I'm I'm here for whatever gets asked of me. Okay. Um, all right. But let let's start with the documents that uh Lauren prepared. I think that um if everybody can review that and send any comments that you have over to her or those first two and then um yeah, the the list of information The third list was uh information or uh

the third idea. Did everybody see the uh the conference that I forwarded to everybody? Cooper Stone. I get those those links but I don't always look at them. Um was there a conference on this one? I get it separately and then you you send it as well but I don't think I read this. Right. I I think it's it's something which you know if you have the time to go to Coopertown

Yeah. because they they've got uh it's a it's a conference there's an introduction introductory period uh then there's a day of various uh lectures and presentations and then uh there are field trips on Friday Wednesday Thursday and Friday um and it probably is worth it uh you know certainly when Shipo asks us have we done any training it you know point to Uh, and I think it's 150 bucks,

but I'll leave that up to to everybody to see if how it fits with their schedule. So, one of the things that we put in our budget was to ask that we have more um that we can organize more lectures that are appropriate to our district. And I don't know what happened with with the budget if they approved it or not. Um, let's find out our They may not have yet. I don't know. Has our budget been approved? That I do not.

It may not have been. Um, but regardless of whether we get all of the budget we wanted or if it's a little bit, I think it's really worth. Um, I was really I thought it was a really successful event that we had that event. people come and they got really excited about buildings and um and specifically stuff related to the blueprint. So that's sort of one way that we can kind of bring the education to us and the community. Um

and certainly it u one of the the consistent problems that we've had are people just don't know about the district or what's involved. And the more events like that that we have, the better it is, the the more that you get the community involved. Right. So the other document I sent was ideas for those kinds of lectures that we can try to pursue. Okay. So I don't I I sent it to everybody. That's another thing to look at if you ever have any. I just put my the window restoration instead of Katewood. What about the Beacon? The um Newberg.

I just said who the woman who works with Kate Wood. I couldn't remember her name when I was writing this, but there's like this really amazing woman who that's all she does window restoring. Um, and I think like does lectures where she like brings a window in and she's like here's the putty, this is how you do it and like this is how this is a storm window and you know can we also look at this new guy just because he's looked more local. Yeah. I mean I think they may even other than new guy I don't know what his name. Yeah, I mean that's why I wrote the lady who works with Kate Wood wasn't spending any more time on it than that at that moment.

But the guy who people love love love which I'm not um I think he probably will travel. Yeah. Oh my gosh. What's the name of that place? Um I I mean the emporium emporium where we got all the doors for our house. Todd, do you have any uh names, potential names for window work or do you want to give a presentation as far as historic windows? Or you could

My knowledge is uh is so specific and unfortunately not super relevant for our district because it kind of predates you. But um I every you know all the I will think a little bit more deeply on that. Off the top of my head you know my my resources tend to be private companies which we can't really bring into the mix. Um it's less the cave woods and it's more just like a really good carpenter or a really good roofing person that type of thing. Um, but I I will I will give give it some more thought and try to kind of dig through old stuff and see if anyone that's like an independent or more of a historian or consultant type figure um comes to mind.

Well, you know, the thing is is that you know the the person who gives the presentation does not have to be a worldrenowned expert. I mean, no, of course people in dialogue or something. Yeah. Doesn't it depend on the context? Like we're not saying to use them like Kate Wood also is a vendor. I mean she's somebody people hire hired right. Yeah that's true. That's true.

So yeah maybe if you think of anything just add it to this list. But I think in general like the kind of what I was trying to put together a list is like the kind of the kinds of um educational materials that both we want to learn about as a board and then also we would would love for people to know in the district. So, like what are those things? So, I guess I didn't write this before, but generally it's like research, how to research your building, building envelope, windows, um how to approach an addition. Um I don't know, maybe paint color could be fun. Um

there is a organization there's an organization called the Window Preservation Alliance. Um I will text you their uh their website. um that has resources. Reach out to them and see if they have a lecture lecturer that they would like.

They're not a it's not a local um group and it's kind of a spread spread out. They do events and stuff um but it's not it's not an organization that is like has somebody in this area. Uh I'll look into it a little more. I wonder putting on my frugal hat if like we're so close to New York City and there are preservation schools if some students who have research some of these specific topics enough totally like present to us from like brick mart yeah present good for their education we don't have to pay them a ton like a win

I have a whole network of people that I went to school with that I could get in touch with too about like I don't know like the head conservator at the Greenwood cemetery or something like we could just get her to come and talk and she's awesome. Okay.

Um and she could talk about stone and the challenges of that and even the cemeteries here. I mean that's an interesting subject. Um there's a woman though. This is something I feel like is a little um uh maybe time pressing because of the um there's a uh there's this woman named Barbara Dilva who I met going through the um you know her, right? Barbers, her husband was and she were very um they were like the people that really pushed to create this district. Um yeah, well, she totally knew who you were. She knew who I was, but Okay. Well, I

Anyway, um she it would be I think it would be interesting to have like a cozy night where we just like ask Barbara questions. like there could we could prepare questions for her and like listen to her talk about like the creation of the historic district and like what the um what what they thought was important and like who they got involved and how it happened and um I think that would be a really and she's older and so I think it would be something that we should do soon. Yeah. Um and we wouldn't have to pay her, right? The person who I am I know dates back to that period is Glenn Watson. Maybe they could be in dialogue. Huh? Maybe they could be in dialogue. I'm not sure. What is Glen Watson a historian?

Right. I I mean uh so who is he? He used to be the surveyor for the area. Bad Watson. Oh yeah. Glenn Watson. But uh I I do remember uh when I first got involved in this his he and his wife were very instrumental in he told me a couple of stories about uh how the process worked which I I'd be really interested you know even if just our board members show up I'm sure there will be people who will also show up an interesting subject. Um

well I I think one of the things which we can probably have them talk about because I think it's an interesting story is the original map how that evolved because that was the map that that established our our district. But wasn't didn't they hire James Marson Fitch to go around with the Columbia students? James Morrison Fitch uh he came around and he walked you know actually he didn't do it his grad students did says he was there huh

Barbara says that he was there and he was like this is the most intact historic storefront I've ever seen basically and he's like a preservation god like he's like he wrote the book right right there are many nerds that would come out for this evening to talk about James person. I might Well, I I used to um I I used to work at Buyer Blenderbell and he ended his career at Buyer Blenderbell. He was the uh whenever they they wanted to impress people as far as historic preservation, they they trotted him out. I mean, he he's the guy. Yeah. I mean, he he started to learn about he created the academic field. That's a big deal.

Basically, he right? Doesn't necessarily mean that he was out here uh you know uh sort of inventorying the district. Have you seen the the uh Yeah. But I think it would be a really interesting but those are his students and he came with his students and whether he was the one who like put the document together or he was the one that was like look over there. Oh look. and the kids are like, you know, like I think that's like a good I think that's a really interesting story to tell about this district. Yeah, it's amazing. Everyone wants to know that. would look for me.

I'm being so I do like people who not everyone wants to I do think that any like a developer does come like all the like people want to understand the context for different reasons homeowners like I think everyone who has a stake in the community knowing the history only benefits them in the same way that dragging out the guy that originally did it by buyer Glender Bell like you bring him so that anyone like who at the stake sees and learns, right? So, I think Yeah, it says I was being serious.

So, okay, because there's a I can't talk like texting. Um, but anyway, it's a I think it would be like a fun like even if it was Barbara and Glenn Watson to just like and we can prepare questions and ask them questions.

Yeah. For for example, the uh the recent the map which was very crudely drawn was that was sort of a draft and uh basically it got voted on and became the defining document. But, you know, there are a lot of people who don't quite understand why some parts of it were uh included in the district and some parts were not.

Yeah, I would like to know that. I would like to have those questions. Well, and and basically what Glenn told me is that uh they prepared this draft because it was a draft and they uh sort of included certain areas that they were anticipated they would have to give up and as a compromise. Uh but in fact nobody ever asked them to reduce it. So, you know, the there were a lot of areas that they really didn't intend on including in the in the district, but was included anyway. Maybe. Let's just think about say like I'm not doing this that wasn't intended anyway.

No, I think that would be a really interesting lecture for us and I think that is a I think that would be a great part of our education and our training. Um, so anyway, if anybody has any more ideas for that list, you should write them down also. Okay. Um, moving on to uh review items to be posted on the village website. That's we talked about that. Yeah. Uh, generate list of ideas lectures. We talked about that. review minutes now. I I guess what's the story? Um I was just

glad we stay glancing at the Oh, do you want to do that first? We can do that. You want to first though since we were the glancing at and they're really thorough, which is great. I wonder if I could actually grab them and um simplify and then we can do we can look at them because I think there's some there's some edits that could be made. So I could actually rather than reviewing them now just take a stab. Okay. If you guys are if that's okay. I think it'd be more efficient just and then we would not spend that time now. Is that okay? Maybe it's up to you guys. I just

I'm And then we could Can we approve them over email? I think we officially have to approve them. Okay. We can make suggested copy changes, right? But we can't approve the revised minutes uh through email. It has to be done public session. But Kate could come up with a draft or a revision to this. That's right. and circulate it and then we at the next meeting we vote on it. I'm okay with that. Otherwise, I think it will take Yeah, perfect. And it'll be fairly quick with all the content there. Abby, can you just send me the word and then I'll

Okay. Now, how about the response regarding the little fence? Did you do this? Did you see this, Todd? No. I'm going to take a picture and text it to you. Oh, wait. Did you the plastic pull fence that's hard copy here dated March 17th, so today? Um I I think this was sent to me and Al, right? Oh, I'm texting it to you right now, Todd, because it's here. Thank you. From the who who's it from? The owner.

The owner. Um, and and I forwarded it to the lawyer on the story and he um basically said, and I don't know if you want to respond to to Vlad or if you want me to respond to Vlad, but he basically told us exactly what to say to him. Um, which was to say, we got this, and then invite him to be scheduled on the next agenda, and then we can talk about it then. We don't offer any response to this in writing at all. you. Um, and then if we come to the same decision as we did the next time, as we did the previous time, um, then we, uh, then we hand it over to him.

So, to come in to discuss what he's written. Yeah. Yeah. and just say and like we can vote on your project again in light of your comments and we can either um we can vote on it then and I think that makes sense. That was what the lawyer said to do. So I'm just I would like to do what the lawyer said. Okay. Um and I don't think we should respond to this in any way. Right. basically, you know, we received it and let's schedule uh him for uh April. Yeah. Do you want to write it or do you want me to write it?

Uh let let me write it. It's uh because you got Jonathan's response too, right? Yeah. Kind of copy and paste. This is going to be relatively easy certificates of approach notices to write this meeting. I can handle a simple letter. Okay. Well, all for all the documents you worked on, we talked about tonight, we shall get back in there once more and give our comments.

Yeah. Um yeah, it's just nice to keep the momentum going, I think. It's so close. Yeah. And then the So, as as related to this letter, um he's he's bringing up basically that you can't see it from Main Street and the only places that you can see it from are outside of the boundaries of the HDRB of of our the historic district. Um, so the the rules and the code specifically say from the public right of way. It does not specify whether or not the public right of way is in the district or not is in the district. Okay. And the lawyer

well no it I don't think it the interpretation is that it does not have to be the viewpoint doesn't have to be from within the distance. Yeah. I I I think that's why the paper even counts when we discussed I think that the issue is right now in response to Vlad uh we need just just need to say that we received it and we will take it under consideration and then ultimately what we need to do is uh prepare what we feel is a response a question and uh okay go

I mean The question that we have to ask um uh our lawyer is that do we send him a u a response before he actually comes to the next meeting? The lawyer said he said do not do that. Do not do that. Okay. Well then how how how do we respond to this letter? He he said it in this email. He said simply acknowledge the receipt and invite him to come back. He says do not say anything in response to this letter in writing what he says.

Okay. Well, the my question then to the lawyer is how do we respond to what he is asserting? He says he says it right here. He says um for the email that to write is the board is in receipt of your correspondence. Please. I understand that that that's the the the immediate response saying we got we got your your letter. So, you're saying when we sit down to meet with him in a month, what are we saying? Yes. For us all to individually review his letter and consider what he's saying, right? And look at the rules and all those things. I I know. And and but then how do we transmit that to him in person? Well, we either approve his application, right?

Or we don't approve his application. And if we don't approve his application, then we no, we don't do anything. We send it to the lawyer and he drafts a written decision denying the Ca. And that comes from the lawyer, not us. But but what we have to do is as part of our respond if if we turn down an application, we have to state the reasons why we turn it down. That's in it's in our ordinance

over the next month. So our homework is to either go back to our minutes and recall what we've already said or reasons and then to confirm those reasons, right? And so individually we all feel confident that we're let me materiality of the fence is is explicitly against our guidelines. Yeah. I mean that that is fundamentally the the biggest reason among other things maybe that I can't think of right now but the material of it is the reason that it is not approved. We don't approve vinyl fences. Hard stop. Right.

He's sort of explaining in his letter though sort of contextually where it is etc. the neighbor etc. blah blah blah and and I think that based on what I have dealt with in the past unless we respond to them and it we it could be as part of uh the lawyer's response but we do need to respond to this document because now when I say we I'm talking about the board and the lawyer Yeah,

lawyer. All he's doing is he's putting a bunch of um legal terms. So, he presumably would need to know why why it was for each point sort of how it breaks. That's right. And and ultimately, we need to give that information to him because he's not going to know. Well, he's responding in in the negative. Okay. I I explained when I first contacted him, I told him um why we denied the application. Okay. But uh I guess do we have do we have documentation of the reasons why we denied it?

Well, you sent a notice to lab right from the board, right? And then so that's documentation because I think you stated why there's there's a difference between just saying documentation that you said no. Uh you also have to state why you're saying no. You can't just say no because uh you know I I wasn't in a good mood that night. Okay. What did you say in your notes? Well, you said it does not comply with the district standard, right? In what way?

It is not. Okay. You didn't write this, but I I said to the lawyer that um the reason we denied it is because the material does not is explicitly prohibited in our guidelines. And that's what Abby picked up on the minutes here. the board commented that they cannot would not approve a final event if the HPCB had came to the conclusion that an email will be sent to the application.

So I think there is documentation and then I don't know that we have to prepare anything unless the lawyer asks us. Well, that I that's I've got to talk to the lawyer and and see exactly what he needs from us because uh you I' I've been involved in these things and if we just deal with vague, you know, vague statements, uh it, you know, the and it winds up going to court, the judges usually get very upset with it. Uh because there's a middle ground, right? It can't be too vague and it can't be so in the weeds that then like

well I I I mean I think we have good reasons for saying you know for denying it but what we need to do is we need to be specific and uh clear as to why we're we're saying no. I think that that was the only reason that I think we all came down on. Right. So my only question then is, you know, we're discussing next steps in context of this letter that we've all read to wait to meet. We should just talk about this next week though, right? Sorry, next month. Right. Yeah, next month. Well, I think the only difference is that whether he he's here or not. I think it's

right. And see, that's what we need to to be careful of. Theoretically, we cannot talk about this amongst ourselves. Well, we're obviously we're in a public meeting. Well, I mean, aside from situations like this because this is at at a public meeting and so we can't do any deliberations except in the public setting. I

think that's the intent. We're not We won't It's how much are we talking about right now versus in the month? And I'm just hearing it sounds like from you and maybe from Lauren an intent that nothing has changed in our decision so that if you were to vote now it wouldn't change. And I'm wondering if there's anything that would change between now and next month if there's a reason to wait. But maybe there is. Maybe when we're talking to him, one of our perspectives will change. And I'm I don't know. I just don't literally no nothing will come of meeting again but it could it could that's what yeah okay

nothing has changed nothing material has changed about the application and the application was not approved so that that is the crux here where like either responding and inviting him to the next meeting to basically just talk about it again and him try to convince us but if nothing has changed then I I understand John I might be frustrated to wait a month to say nothing has changed is all nice and good but what has not changed and I think so let's confirm that maybe something has changed so that's the homework over the next month like is

and ult ultimately when the lawyer responds to this he has to give them reasons why it's it was it's being denied because we have never we have never I mean we we've talked about our objections but uh we have never gone on record as to you know you're this is not acceptable because blah blah blah as a formal document a formal response on the part of our board. Well, I think to respect the letter, all of us should sort of go through it line by line over the next month independently and confirm that none of these things hold weight or if they do, why? And then we can discuss them with him. I mean, if he's bringing up a good point, then

and that's the point of going to the next meeting so that that it's like a fair trial opportunity for everybody to present their case and we we should be prepared to respond to him. That's true. But I don't think we can talk about how we will respond to him until after that meeting. Why after the meeting? I think during the meeting. Write a summary of the letter. We can write a summary of the next meeting, but we can't even think about what the content of that letter until we um meet with him.

Well, okay. because we're we're waiting to hear from what he has to say. Right. Well, and I'm going to take this letter and read it like walk around the block again with my dog. He's talking about sight lines. And so I'll look at the letter and confirm that that's sort of I misinterpreted or I didn't and you'll look at the rules again. Maybe I'll come back and say you guys missed this one thing and I think he's right or who knows maybe it won't be me. Kate or anyone on the board, if you do walk

if you do walk the the surrounding streets, would you mind sending taking some photographs and sending them to the group? I thought we had that already. We did. Um, we can send with fresh eyes new perspectives. I mean, we're talking about basically talking about the same thing that we've been talking about. So, I'm just saying newly dated pictures. He also references planting planting landscaping materials that are shielding it from whoever made the complaint originally. We can't consider landscaping materials. So, I I'm just saying if we're going to retalk all of this again in a public setting, we probably should have up-to-date materials. And since I'm not there, yeah,

if you would mind, that would be great. Thank you. And with that, because you're not there, we're going to blame everything on you. So, that's totally fine. Move to adjourn this meeting. Yeah. Okay. Adjourn the meeting. The meeting. Uh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we adjourn, we have the email from Joe Thompson that uh Abby sent us about the house on Pauling and the usage changing the brick veneer foundation to stone. Wouldn't that be next? Schedule them for the meeting because we can't. Right. Is that Yeah. I just wanted to address it since she emailed it. So, we're just ask them to come to the next meeting. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, I have a motion to adjourn. Do I have a second? I have a second. We leave these here, right? So that they're reference materials for anyone who's