City Council - workshop

All right, it is 5.15. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this work session for the city of Prattville tonight. We'll be discussing the funding request from the Autaug County Board of Education and all aspects of the request. Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Councillor Newman?

Here.

Councillor Jackson? Here. Councillor Chambers? Here. Councillor Merritt? Here. Councillor Whaley?

Here.

Councillor Stritchett? Here. Councillor Langley? Here.

having a quorum present i do call this work session to order at this time i know what kind of reaction we're going to get from this at this time the council will go into an executives executive session to discuss matters related to preliminary negotiations regarding economic development matters of trade or commerce uh... that could potentially have an impact or current decisions that need to be made We do have a letter of approval from the city attorney for this meeting, and the council will be in executive session for probably 15 minutes, maybe 20 if there's a lot of questions, but just a few minutes. And then once we're reconvened, the council will continue the work session and carry forward with the corridor traffic operations and then begin the entire discussion itself. But do I hear a motion to enter into executive session? but much of most my counselor langley is there a second second account jackson matter for we please conduct a roll call vote captain and yes cancer jackson cancer chambers council wailing here yes restricted counseling all right the time is now five seventeen and uh... we will be no more than thirty minutes i believe we will be about fifteen minutes and we will uh... continue with our infrastructure need study as soon as we return

Yes, we got you.

Can you still hear me? I'll just check one more time.

Hey, talk again for me, Scott.

Okay. One, two, three.

Got it.

All right. I'll just mute and then we'll hang out for a bit. All right.

I'll turn it off in case he...

Thank you. Thank you.

So this is just .

So this is the . So that's . Okay. Thank you. I love my chair. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Get up here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Six months ago. um Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

Is that good? All right.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Where is...

All right, we return from executive session and now call the meeting to order. Time is 547. At this time, we're going to get an update on the Corridor Traffic Operations Infrastructure Needs Assessment for the Old Ridge Road area from Scott Cothran with Skipper Consulting Incorporated. Thank you, Mr. Cothran, for the information that you have to provide for us. You can hear us okay?

It is a little choppy on the audio. I'm catching a few words here and there.

Scott, can you hear me okay?

I can't hear you okay.

uh... well just just so everybody knows here so you know in in looking at the funding request from uh... from the the board of education itself uh... there's a lot of different i guess aspects of it and and uh... so several months back when the original request came for the potential of a funding agreement uh... for a hospital in the location next to cat uh... we we automatically recognized uh... course with a lot of help from some of uh... john's constituents that traffic would be a major concern in that area uh... so we went ahead as the council and sanctioned a traffic study for that area so that we could go ahead and get that information ahead of time and have that information available uh... for us at the time that we that we could bring all of this together to discuss what we were going to do so To be honest with you. We still don't we don't we still don't know which direction that we need to go As far as is assisting with education, but if it is towards a funding agreement for a high school at that location Then this infrastructure and traffic study is an integral part of it because it's going to have to be done at the same time so Thank you. Go ahead and

Yes, Scott, if you don't mind, maybe just give a brief overview of the report, your findings, what all y'all looked at, and then kind of early on, I think it might be important if you can just describe the level of service and what that means in terms of the traffic study and traffic operations.

We can do. Can you hear me okay, everyone? Okay, I appreciate y'all letting me speak with you tonight remotely. My wife had a procedure this morning, so I didn't want to commit to be there in person and not be able to, but I knew I could commit to be with you virtually and kind of talk through what we did in the study and talk through the process in coordination with Paxton. And so really what I want to do is Just step through the report and highlight a few overview items of what we did, some of the data collection, the analysis, and related to level of service, like Paxton mentioned, I'll explain that. And then, you know, a few key points of interest that indicated in terms of where we wanted to go with infrastructure needs in terms of actual Construction project items and operational needs. And so what I'll do, if I can, is I'll share my screen. I may have to be allowed to share my screen there, Paxton.

Okay. And Scott, while you're working on that, do know that each council member has a copy of the report.

Okay.

Okay, it looks like I'm sharing.

Okay, can everyone see? the title page there? You can't see?

Okay, thank you, thank you.

What I'll do, like I said, I'll just step through the study and of course this is, we've done several of these type studies before and we refer to them as traffic operations and needs assessment infrastructure for a corridor of interest. and look at both the existing conditions as a baseline and also the future conditions from general, often from general traffic growth, or if we know, as in this case, that there's a proposed new traffic generator that will be added to the corridor and understanding the implications of that. And so I'll skip through some of the items and highlight a few items again. So background information. So what we try to do, of course, we're not locals. We know the corridor area, but we don't know it like folks that are traveling every day. So what we want to do is get a better understanding of the corridor characteristics and really use those as our givens in terms of a background approach on the existing conditions and then the future conditions to assist a subestimate. And so what we want to do is we want to know if there's new infrastructure already in the works. And in this case, one of the key items we felt like was important to our understanding was what was going to be included in the Laney Drive extension from its current terms point over to Old Ridge Road and be able to leverage that where we can in our study. Look at the existing functional classification of the roadways involved, and this was a bit of an interesting item for us. Old Ridge Road is actually functionally classified as a local road. It's not included as a corridor in the travel demand model from the planning agency's perspective, so that was a little bit of a challenge in terms of knowing how to look at future traffic volumes in that regard. The corridor having a speed limit of 30 miles per hour in certain areas and 35 miles per hour in certain areas is a given we want to know. And then we roll to it. We do a lot of data collection techniques. One of them is to do aerial drone photography during peak period travel times so that we can see operationally where the conflict areas are and or the queuing characteristics. And we use that as sort of a validation item because we also do traffic volume counts. And so we compare and contrast to make sure that we have the normalized type traffic in place based on what we see visually from the drone photography. And then, you know, this is a good aerial view of what we understand occurs at Old Farm at Fairview in the a.m. peak hour. A good bit of queuing in this southbound left turn lane adjacent to the Chick-fil-A area. All stuff that sort of common knowledge for the area but we won't need it to confirm and then also looking at some of our environmental uh constraints or things that we want to leverage in terms of available right-of-way uh the you know the topography and the flood lane areas and that comes into play a lot of times when we're doing brand new corridors and when we're identifying new alignments and then look at you know, the amenities in the area that may be generating traffic, park areas or historic areas, and making sure we have an understanding of how that plays in. And then some supplemental field observations beyond the aerial photography, where we actually drive the corridor and take photographs and really get an understanding of how the corridor characteristics perform during the what we consider the peak hours and the morning commuter time and the PM evening time. And then part of that, you know, and then documenting that in the report of the various segments and areas that have different characteristics. And I'll roll through these photos quickly to get to the volume part. Okay. Okay. So then, like I said, we do traffic counts in the corridor, both road tube traffic counts. Y'all have probably seen those on roads. And then actual visual turning movement counts for the intersections of interest. So again, so that we have a good baseline. Again, this is the existing peak hour counts. AM, peak hour, one hour of the commuter time. PM peak hour, one hour of the PM commuter time. And a couple of interesting things that jumped out at us that I'll quickly point to. Old Ridge southbound coming up to the Fairview Avenue intersection, the left turn lanes. Currently there's dual left turn lanes in place. but they're way underutilized in terms of operations. We only have 35 cars in the morning turning left there and 36 cars in the afternoon. Conversely, over at the Old Farm Lane intersection, which it has for the southbound left turn movement in a single lane, you have 415 cars in the morning and 292 cars in the afternoon. One of our rules of thumb is once you get to approaching 300 cars in a single left turn lane, you need to start looking at providing other left turn lanes or dual left turn lanes in that location. So what these numbers tell us is we want to, and this is looking forward a little bit to our recommendations, is look at ways that we can advocate motorist routing not coming necessarily to this left turn lane, we already have dual left turn lanes. Then we also do a level of service calculation. And basically, level of service is sort of like a grading, almost like school grading A through F. A is really favorable levels of service. And level of service E is what we consider capacity. And F is failing, where the volume exceeds what the capacity of the facility is. So we look at that and look at The queuing with this stamp, a good example here is for, let me pull, get a good one. Okay, at the roundabout on Old Ridge at Riverton for the southbound movement in the morning, you can expect to see 100 feet of traffic queuing throughout the peak hour is what that means. So we use that, again, all that as our baseline. And then we start looking at the future traffic demand. And in this case, we had three elements that we were aware of. We knew additional residential was still planned and under construction for the Glenbrook residential area for phase nine. At the time of the study, we were doing this part of the study, it was still 150 lots to to be constructed both in phase 9 and then phase 10. And what we use that as in terms of projecting traffic that I go by and kind of a standard practice is for a day for each house or we multiply times 10 to get the daily traffic. So phase 9, 150 lots times 10 would produce over a day 1,500 trips. in and out of the facility. And then the same thing for phase 10, 150 lots times 10 trips per lot, another 1,500 trips per day put on the Old Ridge Road corridor. And then we knew about the community college trip generation of 400 students and employees combined, added to the Old Ridge Road corridor. So a little bit simpler calculation, 400 vehicles coming in, 400 vehicles leaving, so an additional 800 cars a day on Old Ridge Road. And then we got to through some coordination with Paxton and the administration at the school system, understanding what the current enrollment is and what the planned enrollment is for the high school, to understand what we could expect in the event and as it was currently being planned for the high school to be constructed on Old Ridge Road. And all that said, the high school would add an additional, as it says there, 1,600 trips each day to the Old Ridge Road corridor. So if you combine that with the residential additions and the community college information, we're going to add about 5,400 new trips to the Old Ridge corridor. And why that's important is, and I'll get further into this, is at some point we have some go-bys about where a two-lane road is sufficient and what the threshold in terms of new volume is where you need to consider more lanes. So we have that in the back of our mind as we're developing recommendations for the corridor. So I'll roll to... the kind of getting more specific to that. So 2025 based on our accounts on this section of Old Farm Lane, 8,976 cars, this is an actual count. And then on the section of Old Ridge Road between the roundabout and Fairview Avenue in 2025, 4,800, a little bit over 4,800. So that combines to about 13 cars. 13,000 cars each day that will eventually come up north of the roundabout. And 13,000 cars each day on a two-lane road is generally considered acceptable. The transition point or the critical point for a two-lane road is right around 17,000 cars a day as the maximum. So the reason I point that out is once we add in the new residential, the community college, and then the high school traffic that we're aware of, It'll be by year 2030, considering all that stuff is in place on old farm lane. We'll add an additional 1000 cars each day. On old farm lane portion, and then additional. 3200 cars per day on old road. So. In a nutshell, if you had the 8000 and 10,000. together, that's your 18,000. So that puts 18,000 cars each day on a two-lane road in this section of Old Ridge Road. So it's not, it's right at the threshold of what we consider a critical element of adding additional lanes to the corridor. So all that said is we can get right to the maximum, but anything else additional development to the north is going to push us over that number. So that sort of frames our recommendations. And so ultimately, and kind of moving quickly, ultimately we came up with several bullet items of recommendations So the first one is the section of Old Ridge Road between Fairview and the proposed Laney Road roundabout. We want that to be a five-lane cross-section. And we have graphics that show this, too, that I'll scroll to in a moment. Northbound outside lane drops as a pass-by lane into Laney Road. Southbound outside lane is added upon exiting the roundabout. The we know about the the new the new Laney Rd connectivity into always road is going to be done as a roundabout. So we we have included that known that it's going to be coming as an improvement by others. And then modify the existing roundabout to a multi lane, at least a partial multi lane roundabout to advocate more traffic heading South on Old Ridge Rd rather than so much traffic. circling the roundabout and going to the old farm lane section. And then the three-lane cross section recommendation from Old Ridge Road that acknowledges that once all these items that we know about are in place, that you'd want to have a three-lane cross section, which means one lane north, one lane south, and a two-way left turn lane is how we define that between the fire station and the bluegrass drive. then lastly on the far west end of old ridge road we acknowledge that the development is getting to a point where you need turn lanes on 31 turning on to old ridge road so the we have a recommendation for an added southbound left turn lane into old ridge road there and then there's some uh then everything else is pretty much can stay as as is and then We do a level of service analysis for all these improvements and acknowledge that we're still within the favor. We do all those improvements with the volumes that we know are coming to the corridor. We're still in the favorable range areas of levels of service.

Scott, real quick, we'll kind of touch on how really a level of service C is sort of average and desirable.

Yes, level of service C is sort of the, for a peak hour, which this is a peak hour analysis, level of service C and D are sort of the desirables. It takes into account that you get good operations. Now, it would be great to have everything in level of service A, but often it's a balancing act between operations and overbuilding a corridor. So that said, once you get to level of service E, you're sort of at the threshold of failure. It's what we call the capacity threshold, and then once you get to F, you're in the failure range. So all the improvements that I mentioned, once we implement those and do a level of service analysis, we show a couple of places at level of service E, but we're okay often for that on side street type approaches because you'd expect that. And then quickly, all that's covered in the report. And then we've got some graphics. I know Paxson said you all have the report. And so what does all those improvements look like? So let me rotate true north, sort of how it is. So what the recommendations are, again, a three-lane cross-section starting at Bluegrass, continuing south, as you approach the roundabout. And then the roundabout is where we sort of aid the routing, favorable routing, along Oldridge Road to leverage our traffic signals at Fairview. So we do some laneage improvements here to make it multi-lane in this section. If you can see my cursor, it might be tough. Let me zoom in just a little bit more. So the inside southbound left turn lane allows you to do the roundabout maneuver to Old Farm Lane. The outside new lane restricts your movement to continuing to proceed south on Old Ridge Road. Similarly, this improvement here directs the Riverton Road traffic to come south on Old Ridge Road rather than going through the roundabout to Old Farm Lane. So what we're doing is we're, you still get to Fairview Avenue, but you just don't, you go by Old Farm Lane, you go by the Riverton Road improvement. And then one of the other improvements that we noted is that we said five lane cross section here, north of Fairview on Old Ridge Road. And so right now we terminate the alley lane northbound as a tapering back in what we would like to do, and we've chatted about this, I know this is sort of late in the game, so in Laney Drive, improvements are sort of underway. Another improvement that would improve the corridor operation would be to not terminate this northbound outside lane, but continue it as a right turn lane into Laney Drive. So what that does, all that together, it allows the Old Ridge Road to be a favorable, in terms of connectivity to Laney Drive, both coming to and from Fairview, and it makes Old Ridge Road favorable for users coming to and from Fairview Road, rather than using Old Farm Lane. Let's see. And then the last improvement that we, of course, we mentioned was This shows conceptually on 31 southbound left turn lane, dedicated left turn lane to facilitate traffic coming to to and from over drove via the 31 access. And then the last parts of the report are. More detailed drawings of the of the bigger drawing just zoomed in a bit. So, with that. I can answer any questions of what we're at or if there's something specifically you want me to discuss.

Yeah, thank you, Scott. Just I know that a lot of information on the corridor itself, but just to go ahead and give you this information. Email I sent back on April 23rd. I've looked at it, had another consultant look at it. We estimate anywhere from $7 to $8 million for these recommended improvements. That does not include, just to be very clear, that does not include the piece on Highway 31. That piece is not included in this number that was sent. And I guess with that I can help relay any questions y'all may have to Scott. I think it's kind of hard for him to hear with the microphone.

I do have a couple, obviously. So if you were to just guesstimate the Highway 31 portion, what would that be adding on to it?

Yeah, I looked at that briefly. One reason I did not get into it too terribly much is that would be a good candidate for a trip money with Aldot. Now the county would more than likely need to be the applicant on that and I would assume somewhere between one and a half to two million dollars on that piece. But like I said, that would be a very good future grant application in my opinion for the county to pursue. Not to say that the city couldn't look at partnering with the county on that, but uh... a trip funding is hundred-percent has to be used on state routes is hundred-percent funding through al dot if you choose uh... uh... no but you can go ahead i was going to ask a question that that road old ridge to thirty one is a is a shared road with the county and the city we don't own the road all the way around that's correct if you split it from fairview all the way to thirty one it's probably that this is just a guess here not exact but probably 60 40 60 percent city 40 percent County and We are about to do a paving project from Hamilton to 31, and that stretch is 50-50, pretty much dead even split.

And the county's improving, or are they paving that road now right now too, right? I mean, between the city and the county, it's going to be paved to 31.

From just about Highway 31 to, just for conversation purposes, Hamilton Lane. It won't go all the way up to Hamilton, but while we're right here. And yes, that split is near about 50-50. So...

I feel like, again, we've got this shared responsibility between the county and the city on this, where would it benefit us to try to take control of this entirety of this road for a future, you know, I'm not asking, I'm just throwing out for conversation, and is there, you know, would the county be amenable to that? What would that cost be? If we took the road over, we'd be able to do some upgrades, probably, and it'd benefit us in the long run, right? I mean...

I don't really know how to answer that question. I think that's up to the council as a whole whether they want to entertain taking over full maintenance of that road. Now, one thing that I do believe is important to note that Scott touched on briefly is Old Ridge Road is classified as a local road, not a collector road.

That's why I was thinking if we were talking about being able to take that aspect over the road and we can take control of it and we can move it along and then it would be better suited for some federal funding or some state funding or things like that. I know we'd have to put money into it, but it looks like it's becoming part of our bailiwick at this point.

A lot of your state and federal funding, whether it's coming from ALDOT or FHWA, whoever it may be, does not allow you to spend those type funds on local road it has to be classified as a collector road right so if we took it over took it from the county we could then chart our own course and turn it into what it needs to be to to meet the fund we could go that process that's not to to guarantee that it will be designated as a collector road but we could go through the application process through aldot through fhwa to if you will, apply for that change in classification.

The only reason I bring it up is if we're talking about a high school there, we're talking about a city-focused piece, then I would rather us own our own infrastructure around it instead of having to deal with another bureaucratic level like we've been doing in the past. The only reason I bring it up for the council to hear and think about.

And just to make sure everybody's aware on the same pages, typically how that's done is that if you only have city limits on one side or no sides of the road, then it falls under county maintenance. If there's city limits on both sides of the road, then at that point it falls under city maintenance.

District 1 deals with that more than anybody does. I understand that. That's why I tossed it out there because I want to make sure we – We know what we're getting into if we put all this infrastructure money into one direction. We don't own the other direction. We're dealing with a county going out toward 31. We could remedy that problem perhaps.

Question for you. As it sits right now, to be the type of road we would need to get funding from the federal government potentially, what would need to be done?

It would have to go through an application process to reclassify just full transparency. We approached the county, and by we, I myself approached the county engineer probably well over a year ago now to see if they were willing to go through that process with us. And at that time, they weren't interested in going through that process. Not to say that's right or wrong, but just to say we have looked at going through that process. But we would need the county to essentially apply with us under its current condition.

okay but if we assume control of that road then we'd own it ourself and we could go through that process ourself we'd have to make the improvements to move it to a collector status before we could do that but we'd own it ourself that's the point i was trying to make

That's correct. Now, to be honest with you, I don't know what that process looks like. I've not been involved in that since I've been city engineer as far as actual transfer of ownership, if you will, of a road. Typically, when you say ownership, you mean maintenance of a roadway.

Well, I'd ask, what do you think as far as the importance of it being classified properly? Either way this thing would go, what's the importance of that?

I do believe that Old Ridge Road is to the point where it needs to be classified as a collector road. If you take out the future development, whether it be a high school, whether it be workforce development center, residential, I believe personally that there's traffic there exists today that would justify it being a collector roadway. Now, again, I've never been through that process. Not to say we couldn't do it, but in my opinion, yes, it would be better to have that roadway classified so that you can apply for and use federal funding in the future.

And right now on the planning committee, meeting we just had phase 10 glenbrook is going into place so they're going to be putting more houses back in there that are going to feed out that's why i i bring that up that taking that road it's the city's almost paramount for the city to get some kind of control over it move it along and still waiting on the county

This may be more for Skipper than UPACs in a couple, but with a lot of the constituents reaching out, obviously, yes, they do feel strongly about the need right now for infrastructure, whether we have a school there or not. Maybe you or Skipper can speak to... A, if the school's ultimately built somewhere else and it's not built there, would the improvements still be needed?

Scott, I don't know. Did you hear any of that, Scott?

I did. Whether the improvements would still be needed if the school didn't come or did not come, correct?

Yes.

I think the improvements at the roundabout and the three-line cross-section, well... The improvements at the roundabout of having a multi-lane roundabout, at least a portion of the roundabout being multi-lane with some of the infrastructure that, I guess, nudges the traffic to Old Ridge Road off of Old Farm Lane. And so what that does is it inherently increases as I mentioned, doesn't put so much demand on Old Farm Lane, particularly at that signalized intersection. It brings it over to the Old Ridge Road at Fairview. And keep in mind, there's a lot of developable land still to happen on Old Farm Lane. So we haven't even considered that in the the demand need for the future. Say the school doesn't come, but there's something similar here that develops that gives you this as much volume for the corridor. So my suggestion agreed would be pursue it being upgraded in terms of functional classification. And then at least on the front end, as a traffic operational improvement, doing these multi-lane roundabout improvements here to nudge traffic to use Old Ridge Road over Old Farm Lane. And then any of the other things would be sort of gravy on top of that.

So would you say what we're doing or the – the studies presenting to us is what it would take to get us to where we need to be right now versus are we planning ahead and trying to get ahead of this infrastructure?

I'm sorry, that part broke up a little bit. Yeah, Scott, so I think, correct me if I'm wrong,

Both both the the roundabout improvements would be a beneficial today. To another traffic to go down already drove rather than old farm lane. If the school comes, then all the improvements are sort of a slam dunk need. To to to get you to just be able to handle that. That said. you'd have enough infrastructure in place to handle any additional improvements to the north in terms of new residential and things. Once you get to the three-lane cross section with the roundabout, multi-lane, you've got a good bit of capacity to spare, I should say, for additional improvements to the north beyond the high school and the residential that we know about. if that answers the question.

Yeah, I just want to make sure we're not playing from behind. I'd like, you know, if we're going to do some infrastructure to be ready and have something for potential growth down the road versus we're just, you know, status quo. And I guess the last question I would have for you is in regards to your opinion, professional opinion after this study, the location of the proposed school, do you feel like that would be a good location based on your traffic study and your infrastructure study?

In terms of its placement in the corridor as a new high school?

Yes, sir.

If we were looking at this clean slate location, This would probably not be the top on our list as a corridor for a high school included in terms of its placement within the school district because we do a lot of school operations and on design team efforts with the school's development. In terms of its placement, in terms of the zone and the residential element that you would have, over his road would become a collector to and from the high school so it would have what the residents in the area may consider as a lot of cut through traffic that they're having to handle all the school traffic that they didn't have to handle before so all that said it would not be the top on our list we would think there would be uh And we've had this discussion internal with Mr. Skipper, Darryl Skipper, and others in our firm that it would not be our top of our list for high school locating in the corridor as compared to other items, other places. Of course, we don't know if there are viable other locations, but that's sort of our gut thought on that.

And one thing I would like to note, I should have said this before Scott ever began, Skipper does this type of work all over the state, not only for municipalities but also for school systems. I think they do some work for some universities, different things like that. So they're very reputable in this report that's been provided.

All right, thank you.

Are there any further questions for Mr. Cothran as far as the study and the results that have been shared with us?

I guess I have one other question. Where the Old Ridge hits 31, you know, and you've got Powell Road that's kind of offset. I don't know if you guys looked at that area, and, I mean, it's already kind of a – very difficult intersection to come from the high school out on 31 on the ridge or vice versa that broke up a little bit paxton could you Are there any suggestions on how we can approach that intersection? Or is that something you looked at?

Yeah, it is something that I've been looking at. As a matter of fact, what Scott shows on the screen right here with trying to get my directions correct. So coming south, you have the left turn lane. My recommendation would be to extend the right turn lane further down if you're going north on 31 onto Old Ridge Road. So there are some additional improvements there that I would recommend if that project were to be pursued.

What about a traffic light? Would that be something that would be feasible?

I highly doubt it. There's a lot that goes into a warrant for a traffic signal. Not to say that it wouldn't, but just right here, I highly doubt it.

Was that the traffic signal possibilities? Is that what I heard?

That's correct, Scott.

And one thing I'll interject on that is traffic signals on the state roadway. I was pretty rigid on they wanted to warrant quote unquote warrant and they're under direction in terms of working as signals. It has to be a need throughout the day about a high volume need for eight hours of the typical day and what I'm afraid we would get into for this intersection. is it's a peak hour need not necessarily an off peak hour need so we may have a need for two or three hours of the day but they want it to be eight hours of the typical day in terms of that so it might be might be tough to get it warranted yeah so it gets a roundabouts out to them so

I highly doubt it. I don't see Aldot being in favor of a roundabout at that intersection. Again, those are hard questions to answer simply because that's Aldot's road and we have no jurisdiction or control over that.

All right. Any further questions for Mr. Cawthorne?

One thing I would like to go back to, just to be extremely clear on, the number that I threw out a minute ago, somewhere in the neighborhood of seven to eight million dollars, just keep in mind that we're trying to account in that number of, it's more than just pavement and markings. There's utilities that come into play. there's a whole number of factors when you're when you're trying to estimate a project like this on the front end you know set seven eight million dollars is in a way a wild guess until you get into surveying and design work there's a lot of unknown so I do want to make sure that we're clear on that that you know when we're looking at that number we're trying to take into account utility relocations and everything that may come along with it okay

All right, well, Mr. Cawthorn, we would like to thank you for meeting with us and providing the information that was in the study. We have a copy of the study, and thank you for that. I know we'll spend some time looking through that, and that will be an important piece of the puzzle as we try to figure out where we're moving in the future. So thank you for participating with us, and we appreciate your time.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Bye.

All right. So we're now going to go into the portion where we're going to open up the floor for discussion from counselors. I would like to, after having had some conversations, just go and I want to go ahead and read for us. the email that i received from mister woodford uh... just clarifying what the actual ask is uh... from him and i'm i assume the board as well uh... he says here you wanted to take a minute to uh... clarify exactly what is being requested as you recall during my initial presentation to the council i provided document a document outlining several funding options At the time, I stated that the primary question we need answered is this. What amount, if any, would the council feel comfortable allocating for education? I included estimates and options related to a new high school because I believe that investment would position the city of Prattville and our schools for success over the next 30 to 40 years. However, I also understand that cost is significant. What the board and I need clarity from the council on is a clear dollar amount that the council is comfortable allocating for education. If that amount does not support the construction of a new high school, this is completely understandable. However, identifying a defined amount is critical even if the amount remains at approximately the current allotment of $700,000.00. That is acceptable. We simply need clarity. That figure will ultimately determine what project, if any, that we are able to pursue. And then he goes on to explain that he was out of town for a SSA training. And so being that this was a work session, he has presented that information to us already and then clarified the need, the request, the ask of him and the board itself. We discussed that, and I told him that I didn't feel like there was a need for him to come back early just to reiterate the information that he's already given us. So he's clarified what the ask is there. So at this time, if you feel so inclined, we will open the floor for discussion from the council. Council Chambers.

Yes, sir. I'd just like to make a quick opening statement prepared. First, I want to be clear that I do support education, and I support our students, and I support finding a solution to the facility needs facing our community. I believe something needs to be done. The growth we are experiencing is real, and the challenges facing our school system are real. The question before us is not whether action is needed, but what action is the right action, and what role Prapple should play in making it happen. I appreciate the work the Board of Education has done to identify these needs and begin planning for the future. I also recognize that this discussion is about more than just a building. It's about educational opportunities, workforce development, career and technical education, and preparing students for success after graduation. The Board has indicated that decisions regarding future facilities need to be made in the near future. And I understand the importance of that timeline. However, if the city is being asked to consider a long-term financial commitment of this magnitude, we have a responsibility to fully understand what we are being asked to support before making that commitment. Based on that information presented publicly, and Council Way pretty much mentioned it, but we're discussing a project that could cost approximately $150 million before infrastructure, with the board contributing approximately $30 million in bonding capacity. That means partnerships will be necessary if this project is going to move forward. I want Prattville to be part of that solution, and I am hopeful that every entity that benefits from a strong school system will be willing to participate in that effort. At the same time, I believe we have a responsibility to evaluate all reasonable long-term options before any other commitments are made, including whether a public or a Prattville city school system should be studied as part of the process. So for me tonight, it's about establishing a process. What information do we still need? What questions need to be answered? What analysis should be completed? What role each partner will be playing? And what can the city realistically and responsibly afford? That is why I have spoken with Council President Whaley and other members of this Council about the idea of bringing the City Council, Board of Education, County Commission, and other stakeholders together for a joint public discussion. A project of this magnitude deserves a transparent conversation where everyone can hear the same information, ask questions, and better understand the expectations of each partner. My goal is not to delay a decision. My goal is to make sure we make the informed decision. I look forward to the discussion and to working together to identify the best path forward for our students, taxpayers, and future of our community. Thank you.

I didn't prepare anything. It's not what I do. I come off the cuff and from the heart, and I don't even use AI for some of my conversations. But yeah, I've talked to Lyman a couple times. I go home to a former Board of Education member. I hear all sorts of things. A conversation with Mr. Woodton, he and I seem to be a lot on the same page with a lot of things as far as Timeline, you know, how soon? Do we have another meeting? We're doing studies. We've done a lot of studies, y'all, and they're not cheap. So we've had a lot of studies. Something's got to happen. Not yesterday. Something needs to happen. I read on social media, everyone, there's pros and cons to all this. There's pros and cons to everything. It's a ton of money, and it's a long-term responsibility. I hear things, well, brick and mortar isn't going to educate your child any better. Well, it could. I mean, we don't know the technologies. We don't know the improvements that a new school would bring as far as you know, having other people from other communities want to move the problem as far as military, professionals, white collar, what type of growth. The mayor always says, since I've been doing this, there's growth, there's good growth, and there's bad growth. So does a new facility bring good growth? I think so. I look at things simply... on a small much smaller scale with our athletic department here in prattville uh... some of the things and mr borns in the back tonight and uh... what they've done with with the facilities at the high school just in a year it's got kids around our state going yeah i think i'd like to go to prattville now They're not academically challenged. Some of them could be. I don't know. I don't know these kids, but they want to be a part of something because of our facilities. So nice facilities do help. You know, I know a lot of these teachers in the school system. We have remarkable teachers. We have remarkable administrators. We have principals, assistant principals, who work tirelessly. I mean, my wife is a school teacher here. My goodness, the hours she put in teaching little five-year-olds to teach them how to read and what she did just to see the talent that she taught with and the talents to her in this community. Now, having educated most of us on this dais, I may be the exception to the rule. These boys are a lot smarter than I am. But they educated my children here in Prattville, Alabama. They all have advanced degrees. They didn't have to go to a private school there. Taga County taxpaying children who went to school here and are proud to be proud of the Lions. So a facility, is it necessary on the surface? Maybe not. But would it help us? Yeah, it'd help us. It'd help us all. Find the money. Can we float that huge bond? I don't know. I mean... We have our money man here tonight. But the simple question, the two simple questions I think Mr. Woodfin and I discussed is tell us something. If we want to go toward a city school system, hey, I have no issues with that whatsoever. I really don't. I think it's possible, perhaps. We want to stay, you know, the three county high schools or whatever, and we can all help our citizens here because that's our job. and i'm for that too he needs to know something y'all need to know something deep people need to know something are y'all home even though something really soon simple questions what can we afford now can we afford six million dollars a year on the on a bond i don't know that's for daniel and the experts the money folks you know maybe it's a conversation daniel i don't know if daniel has taught with miss poe i know that there's all kind of moving parts here. I don't know what the county commissions said they could do or stepped up to do. I doubt it's very much. That's just how it works out. We're the purse. We're the purse that carries the county for a lot of things. The city of Prattville. Our residents, y'all pay your taxes. You shop here. We've got a tricky situation. We've got Elmore County, we're in Taga County, but we're in the city of Prattville. So you look at that, and there's so many integral things that we need to look at to bring in revenue. But y'all need an answer, and we need to decide can we partially help or fully help? I don't know. But I think this conversation tonight needs to eventually come to a stop. We've been talking about this for a long time. Some of y'all know, Marcus knows, we had discussions 10 years ago, how can we help? And here we are, I mean, we put it up to a vote a couple different times. The majority of the county residents didn't want to increase the ad valorem. But if you look at the numbers, those people within the city limits They want to increase the ad valorem 100%, but they see the significance of everything if we improve education. It doesn't take a rocket science. It doesn't take me or anybody else to go, well, if your education is good, your city is going to be good. Everybody knows that. Half a brain knows if you have a quality education system, you're going to have a quality community. But it does help. It helps with economic development. It helps with... what removed lives in probable alabama it's is crucial and that's part of a that's a new high school here or there wherever it goes didn't to me it's a good thing you know that well i think the current was in seventy eight we just got rid of a uh... uh... uh... uh... car county high school the kindergarten i think that i think then you're probably been around that thing was around so over this beautiful side also the assets you know i don't know i'm not a lawyer either just you know one of the conversations i had with with mister would be okay and i was telling the gang earlier hypotheticals i hate hypotheticals but this is a hypothetical schools built cities carrying the weight and we would i mean y'all know that we're carrying the load so you do consolidate down to four maybe five schools because of this new school so your current assets you know what do we do with those do those come does the city have any scratch in that game because we're carrying the load here if we wanted that kindergarten if this does go to fruition Maybe we should have the kindergarten. I mean, there's give and take. You just can't go, hey, this is all us. I mean, you are involved. Citizens are involved. And that's why I'm glad we're streaming now tonight. I mean, I've been getting lit up. We've all been getting lit up texting. You know, in emails, there's not a perfect answer, obviously, but, you know, we have to support our schools and we have to support our school system. It is crucial. But, you know, I yield back to our finance department and what's doable and conversations with Ms. Poe and over there with you guys and folks in the county. There's got to be a way to find some funding for all this. I mean... is it gonna happen tonight nowhere and go okay here's y'all's check y'all have a nice evening no there's still a lot of conversations still to be had and i know y'all are tired of hearing that i'm tired of hearing that most of us up here that i'm aware of are tired of hearing that we've been discussing discussing we'll go to your place y'all come to our place coffee whatever you want good lord let's make a decision let's make it soon one way or the other for the betterment of our children our community and all of our citizens Some people will get their feelings hurt. We're going to get angry people no matter what we do. I know the seven of us are going to feel the wrath. But we ran for these jobs to look out for our citizens and our future. This is a generational decision. We're at a crossroad. You know, we're not filling a pothole or buying a lawnmower. We're talking about something that's going to be generational for the city of Prattville and this county. So it's very crucial. So we need all the information we can gather. So we're going to need to take a deep breath, my opinion, and let's come to the table once again and have another hard conversation with everybody involved. Take up some more time, but this is very important. And so I'm open to my colleagues, their suggestions and their ideas. Everyone in this room, everybody at home, we want to hear from you. This is going to be tough. This is It's the moment right now, y'all, so let us know. And reach out to your city council or your county commissioner and just tell them how important this is. You don't have to reach out to your board of education members. They know. You don't have to reach out to Mr. Woodfin. He knows. Reach out to your commissioners and your city councilors. And, heck, you got an idea? Someone has a Benjamin Franklin moment? I know what we can do. Let's hear it. I'm open for suggestions. I don't have any answers. I don't have hardly any answers. I don't think any of us up here do. But we want to find that answer. We truly do. All seven of us I know truly want to improve education in this city and in this county. Help us to get there. So that's all I got.

Council Newman. So I'm going to use the hybrid method. I like to do research and have notes and speak from the heart as well. So I'm going to do a little bit of both of that. Remember when Daniel Pratt came back here and he stood up on top of Gin Shop Hill and he looked down and he said, I want to build a nice retirement community here. No, he did not say that. He did not. What he said was, I have a vision. And that vision was, I want to build a manufacturing facility here and I want to make some stuff. So he started out on that hand on economic development. And then he said, I need to train people to be able to work in that facility. I need to be able to have people educated to build the roads and build the stuff. And he started a school. Economic development and education are hand in hand. And then houses are built. And then people move in. And then people live there. And then we have parks. And then we improve our roads. And then we continue to do that. I have a vision. And my vision is that Prattville When I graduated from Prattville High School, my mom graduated from Autauga County High School in 64. My uncle taught at this school. I graduated, Robert and I graduated from the same high school, same year. I got skin in the game here, and I love my town, and I can see. So I joined the Army in 84. In 88, I had my first child, and I've had children go through Department of Defense school systems. Two of them graduated from high school in Blount County, Alabama. They've been through Washington State. They've been through New York. They've been through Georgia. They went through Germany. I've had two that graduated out in McKinney, Texas and Tennessee, and I got the last one graduated from private high school right here. I've had kids through all kinds of school systems. We have so much potential here. What I see is Prattmont going to a nimble and quick, reflexive, reactive city school system where we take a level of bureaucracy out and we're able to chart our own course. I think we've become lopsided and that does, I don't mean that in a derogatory way. We have grown, you know, when I graduated from here, Prattmont was uptown. right where where where uh... where uh... roo king is i worked at the the food world that that was it that was thirty one was it right interstate was way out there and there was nothing between here and there rowan and delmore counties compounded our problem our economic engine sits in that county and our money can't go to where it needs to go to keep our symbiotic relationship together like it used to be it's created a complexity level to it and that's what we've all been trying to figure out how to work around that because education dollars in the city of private go to aylmore county they're building a tech center they're doing some other stuff and god love them but it doesn't help our situation so we have we have got to in my opinion disconnect from a toga county so that we can then thrive and a Talga County can then thrive. And the only problem we have is we've got to figure out where the money comes from. So when we start looking at the money side of things, all of the money that we make on the Elmore County side, those education dollars are spoken for, and it's convoluted as to what we get if we disconnect and stand our own district up, and those are the things we've been going round and round and round and round and round about, and we're back in. I know we haven't had the meetings on the front end as necessarily... But we've been trying to figure that out. I've met with Mr. Woodfin many times. I've met with several other board members, the county board, the school board. I've talked with Mr. Chambliss on this as well. I mean, it's complex. If the county line went to the interstate, We probably wouldn't even be sitting here having the same discussion because our money would be going into the school system and we'd still be leveled out. 60% of Autauga County's kids are in the city limits of Prattville. 2% are in the Elmore County school system. But all that money goes that direction. 4 point, I think it's $1 million goes their way that could come our way. This is where our problem is. We've got to figure out a revenue stream. I've since I've moved back home over the last four years this has been on top of mind the first thing I did when I saw the disconnect with the high school not being in the city limits was walk it through I went right to the school board I went right to the planning commission I brought it to the mayor brought it to the council everybody agreed it needs to be done I'm going to mention right now there's $355,000 I think it's we cut to the SRO budget that we pay to proper police department covers the salaries for the uh... uh... s r o annually that we take out of that pity i say one of the first things i'm gonna recommend right now i'm going out as a working ideas we put that money into the the city budget we pull it out of our our city funds and that money stays with the county right there so there's that one point two million dollars we take the s r o salaries out of us so we leave it in there and we pay for this it's in the it's it's annexed in the city limits now I understood it when it wasn't, but now it's annexed into the city limits, so we should be taking care of that ourself as a city. That's money that can go back. So there's some money right there we can kick back that direction, in my opinion, if my colleagues agree. it's important it's important that we get this together for the city it's important that we connect with our our military community maybe not a full-blown high school out there at the at the community college maybe an annex or a wing that we could use for the same purpose i mean we've got probable high school's been there since nineteen seventy nine upper kingston hasn't had any kind of road modifications it's due for road modifications we got forty other acres out there i believe that we could use to build another school it would need more road modifications powell road Moses Road I mean I mean it's it's a it's one of the things that my constituents told me when I went through District one up in that Upper Kingston area that when Rose area was hey Gardner Road Kingston green this this is a traffic nightmare I get it and it's already a traffic nightmare at Glenbrook my brother lives over there I sometimes go visit mr. Chambers I lived over there in Ashton Oak Drive for about a year while we're building our house in District one it's a mess it's a mess already so i mean the infrastructure requirements we just heard the dollar amount and i'm already concerned we're about to do the same thing on the end of the austin road and i've already asked my constituents to look that over because if we do what we want to do out there we're doing the same thing with the developer come in put houses in before they get the infrastructure straight and then we end up having to pay on the back end so i'm trying to address all those things. But on the education side, we need a reflexive, nimble, quick city school that we can manage, we can monitor our money, we can chart our own course, we can do our own thing, and that's the vision I see. Tied into the military community, I think it's a great idea Mr. Woodfin has. I think Pratt will benefit from it. We just have to find the money. I hope we can because I want to unbuckle and let the county thrive I know they've got that northern area up there up around Barbary that's about to bust wide open And I've I won't talk County thrive just as much as the city does so I mean you know these are all the things that that we have to we have to figure out a workaround and I mean I If I had $100 million, I'd give it to us right now. I don't have it. But I don't want to sign up for a 30-year lease payment for $130 million. And then when dynamics change in five or 10 years, I can't unbuckle. and i don't want to lease the car when i could buy the car so i've got to make sure that i know what my my work my income is my pay raises might be over the next my cost of living increases all those things so i mean that's that's what we're we're all struggling with it and like like how sufficient that there's not one person up here that doesn't want Our school system, whether it's city run or county run, to thrive. We're just trying to figure out how to make it happen, and it's a complex situation. So we will help. I just don't know how much we can help it yet. But there's some money right there I found with the SRO dollar amount that I think we should... We're looking at that penny coming up. My recommendation is going to be to cut that money back over to the school system, and we can fund our own police salaries within the city. That's my pitch.

Councilor Jackson?

yeah i just want to go ahead and uh... since we're talking about money we don't turn the show over to the money man daniel oakley himself but um... we sent over some email sent over an email to uh... daniel the other day and uh... i just want to read over some of the questions so that uh... he'll present the information i think it's important that the public knows what these questions were and uh... his response so that we'll have a better idea of where we are financially uh... first question was uh... education reserve balance uh... the current uh... we need to care about for the education reserve account projected balance as of september thirtieth twenty twenty six uh... education reserve disbursements since adoption of the education allocation funding plan on may second twenty twenty third twenty three please provide total amount dispersed by the time to the attack on board of the to the central about community college for miscellaneous education expenditures total amount expended for school resource officers uh... in addition please provide annual amount distributed to the a c b o e back fiscal year amount distributed to cat by fiscal year amount distributed through them of the miscellaneous education category by fiscal year current education have allocation funding plan The current education allocation funding plan provides funding through September 30, 2026. Please provide the annual amount currently allocated to ACBOE under the plan, the amount allocated to CAC under the plan, the amount currently allocated to miscellaneous education category, the amount of annual revenue that will become available for reallocation beginning October 1 upon expiration of the current allocation plan. uh... miscellaneous education allocation please provide current balance associated with the miscellaneous allocation allocation category a listing of expenditures funded from that category since may second twenty twenty three current commitments or obligations against those funds one cent reserve accounts please provide the current balances in any uh... committed or encumbered amounts for education reserves parks and rec reserves infrastructure reserves public facility reserves for each account please identify any of amount committed to approved projects amount legally encumbered or otherwise obligated any amount uncommitted and available for future allocation one cent revenue projections given that the work session well alright uh... please provide projected annual revenues under the following scenarios continuation of the current one-cent structure reallocation of the current education reserve distribution formula addition of a one-half-cent sales tax dedicated exclusively to the talladega county board of education for educational capital improvements addition of a one-cent sales tax sales tax dedicated exclusively to the todd county board of education for educational capital improvements uh... legal and procedural requirements please provide an analysis of the legal process required to implement a dedicated education sales tax within the city of prattville including whether such action may be approved solely by the city council whether approval by the alabama legislature will be required whether a referendum of city voters would be required, any other legal requirements necessary for implementation. In addition, please advise whether a dedicated education sales tax could be structured differently within portions of the city located in Targa County and Elmore, and identify any legal limitations associated with such an approach. debt service and bonding capacity. Please provide current annual debt service obligations funded by one cent sales tax revenues, if any, a list of outstanding debt obligations secured by or supported through the one cent sales tax revenue. The city's estimated bonding capacity should the council consider a future education related capital project partnership. Um, these are the questions. I know Daniel sent over some of these, uh, sent over a response to us, uh, over the weekend and we appreciate him coming in on Saturday to get these done for us. Of course, the legal questions were not, I don't think you're an attorney. Okay. Not today. You didn't sleep at a holiday and experience last night, did you? Okay. So I think he has the answer. So we're going to turn this over to him right now.

So I'm gonna run through this fairly quickly and I think Councilor Jackson just wants these numbers kind of there for the record the counselors have these numbers and can kind of analyze them we could talk about them too this is going to be fairly dry but I'm gonna go through it quickly so the education reserve balance as of May 31st and I'm gonna round these numbers off to just for this for conversations sake but is 2.8 million and that's in their education reserves account each bucket of the one-cent sales tax has its own bank account, so this is just the education piece. The projected balance in that account as of the end of this fiscal year is going to be about $2.3 million, and that is going to exclude any amount that The cash is tied to the Pratt project, so that money is housed in that account too, but not all of it's going to be spent. So that account balance is going to be much higher, but the 2.3 is what I anticipate being available. Let's see. You asked for the breakdown of expenses since inception. Okay. I don't know if I'm gonna read all these by fiscal year, but I may just give you a total. So these are the education one cent payments that have been made for the Otago County Board of Education. The total since inception is about 4.2 million. The Central Alabama Community College, the total out of this bucket is about 2.4 million. There was some money initially upfront paid in addition to that that I think was it was paid out of the public facilities bucket, but I can't remember exactly how much it was. The city and the county split, I think, $4 million, 65, 35, something like that. School resource officers, the value of that to date has been a little over $1 million. The Pratt expenses for the Otago County Heritage Association has totaled about $19,000 so far. The miscellaneous expenses have totaled about 65,000. Most of those all are related to the library repairs. They look to all be related to the library repairs. I could go back to the questions. So the current allocation funding plan for education, so these are kind of budgeted numbers from this current fiscal year. It's roughly $700,000 in cash that we pay, budgeted to pay towards the Autauga County Board of Education. We also have an in-kind service that we're providing that's valued at roughly $355,000 for the school resource officers. Central Alabama Community College, their allocation was budgeted at about $527,000. In the miscellaneous category, we have budgeted $400,000 a year for five years for the Pratt project. And then the miscellaneous kind of everything that's left is about $127,000 that has not been allocated or assigned. It just kind of accumulates in that bank account. The amount that would be available out of this bucket for reallocation on October 1st of this current year is 1.7 million, and after the Pratt project rolls off after 9-30 of 2029, that number grows to 2.1 million. Current balance associated with miscellaneous education account, I project to be about 2.3 million. at the end of this fiscal year that's kind of available. It's accumulated and it's available and has not been allocated yet. And it excludes the Pratt. Current commitments or obligations against those funds, I mentioned the $400,000 annual allocation for the Pratt and that runs, began in fiscal year 25 and runs through fiscal year 29 for a total of $2 million towards that project. One cent reserve accounts, these are the current balances and any committed or encumbered amounts. So the education reserves bucket has 2.8 million in it as of the end of May and it's committed and encumbered based on what I've already kind of gone through. The parks and recreation reserves account has 2.4 million in it. Basically all of this has been encumbered or budgeted for the current year. But based on that budget as well, I anticipate having about $2.3 million in unassigned funds in this bucket at the end of the year, basically held for future parts and projects. A lot of the current projects we use debt financing funding for. um for fiscal year 2027 so next budget year assuming the allocation stays the same for next budget year we would have roughly 575 000 available that is not tied to long-term parts and rec debt service Infrastructure bucket had $3.4 million in it as of the end of May. All of it is committed or encumbered for the current fiscal year. I anticipate, based on the budget, if everything works out as expected, having approximately $140,000 in unassigned funds from prior years left over. And for 2027, I would anticipate having roughly $1.4 million available that's not tied to infrastructure debt. Final buckets, public facilities reserves, and it's sitting at about $3.4 million as the end of last month. All of it is committed for the current fiscal year. I did budget to have about 175,000 left over at the end of this year that's unassigned. And for 2027, I anticipate roughly 1.7 million that's not tied to public facilities long-term debt. All right, so you also asked for the amount of one cent projects that go with each kind of bucket and we do put that information in our annual budget presentation so the things you know I may skim some of these but I'll just read them so the Parks and Recreation budget for the current year fiscal year 26 budget in the Parks and Recreation bucket is we have to pay long-term debt service for the two thousand twenty two a in two thousand twenty two b in the two thousand twenty to a portion of the two thousand twenty five general obligation warrants all that's that service and we also have a slew of projects that we have in there from the restroom at what's done To the bathroom remodel at Doster Center the pool sand filters Miller Park playground upgrade Miller Park path upgrade Pratt Park path upgrade Pratt Park playground fence Cooters pond parking lots parking lights, excuse me Mill Creek concrete work Mill Creek lighting project Cooters pond volleyball court whetstone parking resurfacing and the whetstone bathroom renovation and the education bucket. We have our Central Alabama Community College piece. We have our Board of Education School Resource Officers, our Board of Education Cash Allocation, and the PRAT. And for infrastructure, we have a slew of CWSRF loan payments as well as a portion of the 2025 General Obligation Warrants. And then in addition to those, we have Some projects with really three aspects of the McQueen-Smith expansion project. The Court Street work that was done, the downtown ADA sidewalks that was done. The A-Trip 2 project at Highway 82 and Highway 31. The TAP projects at Sheila Boulevard, Janus Street, and Thames. And then there's another one through the state at Selma Highway, McGriff, and Washington Ferry. The MPO Carbon Reduction Grant for the East Main Street sidewalks. And then let's see. Industrial Access Road for Bow and Way. That was part of the Owens Corning Project. Gardner Road and Rolling Hills. MPO Paving at Sheila Boulevard and also on 4th Street. And then the CDBG Project at College Heights for that paving project. And then we did supplement the gas tax fund for the kind of set amount that we like to put in there each year. If the amount of revenue budgeted in the gas tax fund is not sufficient for our projections or what we want to put aside, then the general fund kind of supplements it. So we supplemented it $33,000. And then... There are three kind of savings accounts that we started for this fiscal year, and we budgeted to put $200,000 apiece aside for these. One of them is a bridge maintenance savings fund, one is a dam replacement savings fund, and one is a traffic signals upgrade fund. Think the street committees had a few conversations about traffic signals and some of the lighting and things like that on Fairview I know Which was going to be very expensive, but so that's the infrastructure bucket the remaining buckets public facilities and and uh... we have budgeted for a human resource training centers part of the second floor we have budgeted for a small business incubator renovations as part of the second floor uh... finishing out the public safety training facility finishing out the project store outdoors We also budgeted replacement of windows and doors and the roof at City Hall and the roof at the annex and the roof at the Family Support Center We have 250,000 in here for public works lot improvements to fix the bank elevator and a portion of the 2025 general obligation debt service Um, so we put a few scenarios in here. So if we, if we kept status quo on the one cent structure, we've kind of gone through how that looks currently reallocation of the current education reserves distribution formula. Obviously that's going to vary based upon some guidance as terms of what, what you guys may want, but we can plug numbers in. Addition of a one half cent sales tax dedicated exclusively to the ACBOE, the value of a one half cent sales tax citywide is about 4.7 million and the value of a whole penny is about 9.4 million. Let's see. So current annual debt service obligations funded by the one cent buckets So we have, I'll go through the infrastructure ones first. We have a series 2019 BB&T loan that was to build the road and bridge leading from Highway 82 into the South Industrial Park and it was like $7 million. I think we only floated maybe four million in debt for it, pay cash for the rest. And we also got a grant and we also partnered with the county as well on that one, so. but that's being paid with infrastructure one cent money. Those small CWSRF loans are paid with one cent money. 2021 I think was Maple Street Stormwater. I'm trying to remember which ones are which. 2017 was Woodvale and 2016 was Silver Hills. 2018, can't remember which one that was offhand, but they're small stormwater-related projects that we got. CWSRF loans, a couple of these had partial principal forgiveness, so they had green aspects in it that we got to reduce, basically get the principal for free, and then it's a very low interest rate loan. They're like 2.2%, so it's debt, but I think it's smart debt. um 2022 cwsrf that was washington street bunch avenue and easy street and we have 35 of that that's going towards stormwater so we pay for that out of the one cent infrastructure bucket the rest is wastewater similar with the 2022 series that was thomas avenue maybe selma highway too but definitely thomas avenue 35 of that is stormwater All right, so Parks and Recreation, all of the 2022A and 2022B debt service is Parks and Rec one cent money. That was the tier one projects, which was the football stadium, Pratt Park, and Newton Park phase one. And every bit of that debt is broken into two pieces because some of it was taxable, some of it was tax exempt. So that was all Parks and Rec. And then the big one is the 2025. 63% of that debt goes to Parks and Rec, 32% to public facilities, and 5% to infrastructure. So the infrastructure piece was Laney Drive. Public facilities was... I know Newton Park phase two was in there. Spillway Park was in there. A portion of the public safety training facility was in there for public facilities. There's a list of projects. So that answers that one. All right. So... The question was posed, the city's estimated bonding capacity. Should the council consider a future education-related capital project partnership? The anticipated structure from my end, and I've talked to our bond attorneys, they've talked to education attorneys that kind of do stuff on the school board side or the city school system side. so the structure would be typically we would not take on everything ourselves and just for risk sake we would create a cooperative district similar to the how we did the Bass Pro incentive similar how the Education Building Authority has done things in the past similar to how the Initial jail was built in 2000. So we basically created a cooperative district that the district would issue the financing, and we would have funding agreements between all the agencies involved. So right now we've got the city of Prattville, Central Alabama Community College, Toga County Board of Education and the Toga County Commission, well, whoever's covering what pieces, we kinda commit to paying our portion of the debt service. We've been asked to pay $6 million, just in round figures. So the good thing about this is that whether the other entities pay their portion or not, it doesn't affect the city. It affects the cooperative district, and it affects that entity, but we kinda shelter ourselves from that. As long as we pay our portion of the debt service, we're good. And the only portion of the debt that goes on our balance sheet on our books is the portion of the debt that we take on. So if it's 60% of the debt, then if it's $100 and whatever million, we're just taking 60% of that and putting it on our books. There are two debt limits that we consider. that I kind of keep track of and make sure we're well under. There's a 225 debt limit, and basically this type of debt would be exempt from that debt limit calculation. Okay, and that was based on your percentage of property taxes, or assessed value, not property taxes, but assessed value of your taxable property. and there's no real requirement to pledge a specific revenue stream like a sales tax to it since we're over 6,000 in population, and that's according to the IRS codes. The 772 debt limit is the state of Alabama deal, and we can be exempt from that debt limit calculation, this debt can, because we can tie it into an economic activity, because obviously boosting, we can write a fancy paragraph that shows exactly how doing this is gonna help us from an economic development perspective.

And that's it.

You're welcome.

That's a ton of information. That's a lot of numbers. Any specific questions for Daniel?

I do have a budget question. So what's our overall budget number?

Citywide? Yeah. 116.

116, 117? So I was thinking about this. So if we were to look at core city services, just the things that we have to make sure we pay for and get done, I'm trying to figure out what's left on the table that we can play with. I think I was, and my math is not as accurate as yours, I'm sure, but I think it was around 60, 60 billion is a number that we could say would be core services. I'm just looking at maybe like could we look at over the next 12 months instituting a 5% cut across the board for the non-essential services to come up with some cash on hand. We already got a million and two that we're giving them out of the penny. We're going to be looking at that penny this year. If we could just take, let's just do a 5%. you know, cut off the top of everybody. We slow down buying lawnmowers and pickup trucks for a year, maybe put a couple of projects, slow them down for a year. Just come up with a wad of cash that we can hand to the school board. I'm spitballing here to paraphrase Councilor Stritchett's term last time. So that we can at least give them something this year to do some facility, needed facility repairs and those things right there while we figure our budget out and get our... feet under us under some other things and you know i mean what can we do maybe five's too much maybe two and a half maybe two maybe we can do ten i'm just spitballing here you know but something where we cut some numbers off the top off the core what do we have on hand that's not tied up that we can we can look at that we can i mean each department When they do their budget, if they have excess funds, it goes into a pool that they roll forward, right? Some of them, yeah, FDR money. Right, so we looked at those and said, we're going to take 5% off the top this year for you. You know, you'll still be able to make your mark on your budget for the most part because you have a little bit overage every year. We can just take that overage even. Something to come up with some cash that we can push to the County Board of Education on top of what we give them so we can look our penny over, look our budget over, and get our feet under us, and then figure out what we're going to do next year. At least we're giving them some kind of an answer. We're telling them something. We're giving them some money to do some needed facility repairs that they need to, those type of things. I'm just tossing it out there since it's a work session. Y'all, at this time, I'll mute. You tell me if I'm an idiot or not.

Well, I think that You know, it bothers me that we are obviously where we are right now because these decisions should have been, we should have been proactive about planning because this does not come at any surprise. But I think what our teachers need and what our admin needs is to know that we are behind you and we are going to make this happen. We've got to figure out how. and time is of the essence. Our timetable may not be your timetable because I know your timetable was really 10 years ago. And we are losing great teachers, great admin every single week because we as a community have not stood behind our education system for the past 15 years. And, you know, when my girls graduated from private high school and there was never a question of are we going to send them to private school? Of course we're not going to send them to private school. We have the best teachers here. Their friends were here. The neighbors were here. But it's not like that anymore. And My fear is we don't want to get caught into the kicking it down the road. And I think Wade, what you're, what you're trying to do and what you're trying to say, I appreciate that because you're trying to take some action of some sort. Now, the action that we, we need to take, we are not able to take that tonight. And I think what you guys have heard from Mr. Oakley is it disgusts me, honestly, that one cent is committed, and I don't know the word that you use, but it's committed all over the place for quite some time. And so we're going to have to come up with a way to make this happen. And, you know, yeah, the city school system, that's certainly something that we need to talk about because obviously a lot of our tax dollars and our money goes to Elmore County. because of the way we're structured. But I do want you guys to know that, yeah, it's not on your timeline and I understand that. But I think as a council, we are absolutely committed to doing everything we can. But I do think that, yeah, we do need to tighten our belt in some areas. There are some things that we don't have to have right now. We've been on a spending spree for quite some time and our priorities, in my personal opinion, have not been where they need to be. Because our children, our education, we're nothing without that. We can look great and we can smell great and we can appear great and we can do all of those things, but it crumbles under the weight of poor education facilities, not poor educators. We don't have poor educators. We have poor facilities and we have low priorities when it comes to our education. And we're not going to be able to function much longer like that. You guys would say we can't function any longer like that, because I've talked to you all. So Wade, I do appreciate what you're saying. And I don't want to cut anybody's budget. But when it comes to where we are right now in this crunch for education, Yeah, we're going to be hated up here by so many people, and then we're going to be loved by so many people. But when I ran, I ran for education. It's the right thing to do, and it's the right time. And I can only speak for myself if I'm not elected after this quadrennium. So be it. I've stood up for what I feel and what I know is right. And you can never go wrong with investing in education.

Daniel, with all those numbers, how much do you see freed up now that we could possibly look at? trying to allocate to education and to helping them with what they're, I know they've, I think they've asked for six, but how much do you see available right now?

So this would be assuming, I mean, this is not counting any I guess not counting any new revenue. And we've kind of mentioned the allocation to, let me get my right. I got like this stuff on six different spreadsheets. There we go. So, I mean, you guys need to make a decision on the allocations to CAC and the allocations to the Board of Ed, and if that's going to change by $355,000, then we'll need to go find that in the budget because that's currently done the way it's done. I did mention in a Finance Committee meeting, basically, this public facility's one cent bucket so we have a small amount so far that's allocated long-term and that's roughly three hundred thousand dollars a year there's nothing else necessarily planned in the imminent future that we would spend that money on outside of you know we keep bringing up the library and the swimming pool so the library and swimming pool you know that would be kind of an easier bucket to pull from and if that's something we don't want to do i still want to keep the the 25 cushion in these buckets i don't want to commit anything long term that exceeds 75 of what we anticipate bringing in just because your debt becomes fixed but sales tax is very fickle and it can go up and down over the course of 30 years So taking a portion of that, so there's basically 1.28 million in that bucket that I would say is not allocated long term currently. And that already negates the 25% cushion. I will say public facilities wise this year we budgeted to use some of that money on roofs and windows and doors here in this building. So having some amount available for bigger, more expensive things along those lines going forward is probably wise. And I would recommend, I don't know that you're gonna need the whole 1.3 million. So there is an opportunity there. I mentioned CAC, I mentioned ACBOE. If y'all wanna do the school resource officers change, that's just 350,000 that I've got to go find in our existing budget. And that is what I would say currently. There are cushions. Parks and Rec is pretty much tapped out. We've had very expensive projects in there. And they've got several other things that I've already met with that department in a budget meeting. They've got lots of other projects, too, that they want to do. Infrastructure, I think we can all agree we can find plenty of ways to spend that infrastructure bucket money on. You can double it and still not have enough. I've not met with Paxton yet, but I know he's gonna be very expensive when we do sit down and meet. We're not putting enough into paving right now. He sent me some crazy numbers that I hope he can explain to me on what he wants paving on an annual basis. But it's three times what we're spending depending on paving now, or saving for paving on an annual basis. What am I missing? And then the miscellaneous. So once the Pratt rolls off, and I don't think whatever decision we make today, whether it's a new high school or a city school system, or I don't mean today, but in this discussion process, you know, it's gonna be a multi-year deal. So I'd go ahead and factor that 400,000's available in 2029. So anyway, do you want me to add those numbers up? Okay.

And it's important because I know back in 2021 when we decided to not allow the one penny to sunset, I think we initially had three buckets, if I'm not mistaken. I think we were looking at parks and rec, parks and rec, infrastructure, and education. And I think facilities was the one that we ended up adding kind of late. but initially it was supposed to be, that one penny was supposed to be split into thirds with Parks and Rec, infrastructure, and education. So I don't know if there's possibility that we can go back and redo the structuring of the one penny with the education reallocation coming up in 2026 that we look at facilities and see what we could possibly do with that.

Let me just make sure before I say that I've got the right numbers. All right, so keeping education, this would be to, we're just talking, keep education, I'm sorry, the ACBOE's allocation the same, plus adding back the SROs, which you mentioned. CAC, the PRAT, and the public facilities bucket, that's about just under 3.3 million. So that's over halfway there to the pitch. 3.3, just under that. And that doesn't factor in options for new money, which this is, I mean, it's gonna have to take some new money too. And then we go all about the options for that, but that doesn't factor in new money.

When you say new money, what do you mean by new money?

It could be new revenue streams, or it could be sources of revenue we don't currently have. Um, and I'll give you an example. I've got, I didn't include this number, but we've got two hotels that are being completed. So I've got a calculation of what I think those hotels are going to bring in from a lodging fee perspective as it currently is, or lodging tax perspective, excuse me. And, um, yeah, I don't want to say the number out here cause it'll give away what I think they're going to make. But, um, I mean, it's, it's, it's something to add. It's small, but it's something to add. Um, And then you've got plenty of options as far as you mentioned, one of the questions was in there about a half-cent sales tax and a full-cent sales tax. Obviously, it's not easy, but the thing that makes the most sense is an average one property tax, but that's failed twice recently. Lodging fee increases are fairly easy from a political standpoint. Lodging tax increases are fairly easy from a political standpoint. However, we have a roadblock in the... Elmore County portion of Prattville where we have over 1,000 hotel rooms in terms of lodging tax. So we would need to go before the state legislature and get Senator Chambliss to help us fix that if we wanted to go up on that. Because we are currently in an agreement, in a levelized lodging tax agreement with all of Elmore County. Lodging fees we can increase just by council action on your own.

Basically, we have a framework where we have an opportunity to...

I think we can get there. But I'm going to need some help. I'm going to need some help.

Well, we've got a Waffle House coming, so that ought to help a lot. I'll be there. You all are going to be there. You know that.

One I didn't mention, if I could throw this in there really quickly. So, you know, we also have an opportunity to go. It would require, I think, require help from Senator Chambliss and our delegation in the House. you know, to even up the sales tax. Toggle County's passed a half-cent sales tax that now the sales tax across the city of Prattville is uneven again to go to the Elmore County side and even up that sales tax, and that's a source of new revenue. And that's a valuable source of new revenue. The estimate on that's almost a million dollars a year.

Because we can't take action on that until legislation. Yes.

it would need to start pretty soon as far as getting that local legislation drafted and we're gonna have to have some conversations with our animal County friends too they're gonna have to agree to it so and we you know we just have to have conversations with them so

Daniel, we talked before about impact fees for education, and there are municipalities in Alabama that do that. With approximately 2,000, 2,500 new houses being built over the next five, six, seven years, what can we do to... kind of put that to good use because that helps to create the issue of overcrowding in our schools. What can we do about that?

yes so council langley you you had pitched that to me probably a few months ago now um and i do have i don't have an amount to throw out there because it's going to be based on the value of those building permits that come in so i don't really have an amount to give you but i did do some research on the how administratively you can do that um And those things can be charged on new development. And government infrastructure does include public schools. So that is in some Attorney General's opinion somewhere that I saw. It cannot exceed 1% of the estimated fair value of a new development. And it's going to be paid for by the developers at the time of getting the building permit here across the street. It might, and this is kind of a legal question, but I think it's going to require a local legislation bill. to be passed, Baldwin County passed one, to kind of help, obviously that county's been booming forever. And I've got some numbers of types of building permits that we've issued last fiscal year, but I think that certainly is a viable option, but I think it might have to go through local legislation through the state. But if we're going, we might as well go for lots of things, so. Um, I'm certainly in favor of that. Uh, the developers, um, I think they're, they're not going to like it, but they, I think they can handle it.

Hold on. Just one question while we're talking about that. So, I mean, I understand that additional houses being built increases population to school, but what percentage of proposed residential

development is in bill more county versa talking that's a really good question for the planning department i'm not sure but we do have maps that show and i mean he's got a map that shows the bubbles with the new houses coming in you know we can draw a county line on there and figure it out i don't have that for me okay i don't know the reason i'm asking that is is if we're saying that

that increased development of residential development in the city, if the majority of that's in Elmore County, it's not going to affect the population of students in Autauga County.

I think all your Glenbrook's in Autauga County. The Doster Road project is in Autauga County. The proposed Doster Road project, you guys still got to vote on that. The other project that's big will be in Elmore County. And then that map would be better to go by. She wanted to get it probably, but all right.

Daniel, this is just a wild guess. I'd probably say 70, 30, 70% in Autauga County, 30% in Elmore County. But again, I say wild guess.

Okay. I just wanted that number out there. Councilor Newman.

I was just going to make a couple of comments, too, about... Why lean in the city school system a little bit more? Obviously, I've already stated that I think it would be better for us. You know, go back and look at how we developed up to this point. We've cobblestone this together, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. You know, we've had to work with the county in a lot of things, and that's the way we made it work. I mean, we've got a football stadium for us that the city owns, and we don't have a city school system, but it worked for us because we could do that, and they could use that, and it helped, and that's what we've been doing. We're a bootstrap community, and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of the fact that we're that. We're to a point now where we've got to decide what we're going to do next. We've outgrown the county in a way that we need to decouple. Look at a couple of things. You talk about tax. So when I lived in McKinney, Texas, I paid $1,100 a month in property tax on a $500,000 house. Here in Pryval, about a $500,000 house, I think I'm paying $2,500 a year. $600 of that $1,100 went right to the McKinney Independent School District. So they had three high schools the size of Pryval High School in McKinney, Texas. Money was not an issue. Now, they had other problems. They had other problems. Don't get me wrong. But they didn't have a money problem. But between my federal tax burden, my property tax, I didn't pay state tax there, and the sales tax was lower. When I come here, well, my property tax is really low. I have a state income tax and a federal tax, but my sales tax, I'm paying about the same. I'm paying about the same in taxes living in Alabama as I was living in Texas, even with that $1,100 a month property tax bill. It's about where it's at. We need to slow our roll on the sales tax, in my opinion. We don't need to be adding any more to the sales tax. Now, sales tax is good because somebody comes in out of town, buys a cup of coffee, fills up in gas or whatever. It's contributing. And I'm not saying we need to raise property taxes either. I'm not saying that. But I am telling you this. I've had constituents tell me, if you guys don't get this school situation figured out, we're selling and we're moving. And I remember Selma in the 70s before Craig Air Force Base left, and it looked a heck of a lot different. The city needs to realize how important education is to this community. Economic development and education are the two things that put houses on the map and put people here. The other thing I wanted to point out too, just food for thought that we've been rolling around, is if you wanna look at, and again, this is no ding to the County Board of Education. I know the position you're in and what you're trying to do, and I 100% know that you need money. But if you look at the pattern, Montgomery doesn't have city school system. They have a county school system, and Montgomery has a line item that they give to them every year, and that's what they use. If you want to replicate that pattern, that's the track we're on. We need a nimble, a flexible, a city-controlled, where our dollars go to our kids to be educated in a city school system. We just need to figure out how to fund it. But I wanted to bring those points up so we can, for conversation only, I'm not advocating any way, one way or around. I'm just laying out the things we need to think about because those are the things we need to consider as a community. And I would love your feedback. Text me, call me, email me. Like it's been said, reach out to your councilman and let us know what your thoughts are about it. And the mayor.

Reach out to the mayor, too. Just one second, if you don't mind, Mayor. I don't want to stop the conversation. I think it's very important, and I think we have more to discuss. These are both empty, and I need to take about a five-minute recess. And so about 745, we'll be continuing our conversation.

Thank you. On which project?

Thank you. What y'all think? What we're trying to do .

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. How you doing doc? You see your picture right up here?

No, where is it? Main Street. Oh, no kidding.

All right. Alright.

It is 748, not 745. But we are, I know the mayor had some comments, but I don't know that we're finished with our comments, so we have some others. You ready, councilor?

Anyway, so hey, welcome back, everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break and got refreshed. Feel better now and ready to jump back in on all this. Back to the revenues and ways to approach it. And Wade, you brought up something earlier about the departments and tightening their belts and all. I think for us as a body to approach that, we probably just have open conversations with our department heads. Each department brings in different types of revenue, some more so than others. Some of them know their head count. Some of them know what equipment they're gonna need. I'm not in favor of saying, okay, and I know you're spitballing, okay, 5% across the board or whatever percent. We all have committees. We need to have conversations with those department heads and say, hey, you know, is there anything in your fiscal year coming up that you could give up to help? Maybe they can, maybe they can't. as far as the school or whatever, I don't want to give up any of our city services. I don't want to give up our first responders. I don't, I mean, there are things that the city needs and this shouldn't be about that. There should be fine. We want to at least find revenue, but I don't, I'm not favor of just across the board, a percentage to say, Hey, this is what you're going to have to give up. Um, They do their day-in, day-out activities, and they know what they need and don't need. So let's have those conversations, I think, with the department heads first.

I would like to address the issue as far as budget cuts as well. And I'm going to address it from someone who's had to put together the budget for one of the largest departments in the city. And I'm speaking from past experience, but I can tell you that nothing has changed from that. And thankfully, Daniel's in here, and he might can help me with a couple numbers off the top of his head. Nothing I'm holding you to. But when we start talking about budgets for city services, I stated in my statement last council meeting that I am not. I understand the importance of education. I know we've talked about additional revenue sources, and that I'm good with. I'm good with doing whatever has to be done, making whatever hard decision has to be made, and taking the consequences on myself as far as additional revenue to help fund education. I'm fine with that. I'm not open to anything that might reduce or limit the ability of our departments to provide the service at the level that they are currently provided. I know it was just like Robert and you stated, spitballing, and I get that, but Daniel, what, and I used to know the percentage off the top of my head, but let's say fire department or police department. The largest percentage of that budget is going to be salaries and wages and benefits, by far. So we know we're not going to cut 5% of the budget. because essentially if we're cutting five percent across the board we're cutting five percent of salaries wages and benefits as well so what percentage of our public safety either fire or police what percentage of that total budget is operating cost just roughly i'm gonna give you the exact number um it's in our little budget presentation i'm gonna try to find it all right so

You said, I've got the general fund. Let me go back and find the general fund. So sanitation was roughly 40%.

You asked for operating? Operating. Operating portion of either fire or police. Doesn't matter.

Well, I've got it for the general fund overall, but... Okay. Well, operating for general fund overall? It's going to be about the same, but it's about 25%. 25%? Of the total general fund budget is operating expenses.

So 25% of the $117 million is operating expenses? Yes. All right.

Well, general fund is not $117 million. That's citywide. Well, yeah. Of the general fund's budget, yes.

Okay.

I'm just – Salaries and wages is 50%, and that's as high as it's been in a while, just because we've worked hard over the past X number of years to get the salaries right. Capital is about a little less than 10%, but it can kind of vary by department. Fire departments, things are very expensive. Yes. But they're more infrequent than, we'll say, the police departments. Right.

The point I'm trying to make is – additional revenue sources or revenue streams I'm okay with looking at but And I'm not saying education education is is Going to be vital to the continued success of the city of problem That I mean we we have to do something that's we all agree something has to be done but I'm elected by the people in district 5 to represent the people of district five and i'm not going back to district five and say hey we're going to cut money from operating out of your city services so we can give it to education i would feel more comfortable going back to the residents of district five and say hey we have to do something about education and increase revenue is what we're going to have to do so whatever form that takes that we that we come up with I'm a lot more comfortable going back to the constituents that elect me to represent them and say, hey, we're not cutting your city services. We're not taking funding away from the services that you already expect and are being delivered at a certain standard. We're not going to reduce that standard. We're going to have to look at additional sources of revenue. I'm not saying that maybe some of the one cent sales bucket that we're talking, I'm not saying that we don't look at that and we don't come up with a number. But I'm saying as far as our departmental operating budgets and personnel budgets, I mean, I'll go on the record and say I'm not for looking at a potential decrease in that to fund anything.

So I want to make sure I clarify I'm not trying to cut vital city services by any means. My comment was to make sure that we discussed some things that I thought about. And again, we had $117 million budget. And I believe I said I thought core services were at about $60 million. which was the number I came up with, which could be off, may not be, tell me later. I don't mind being wrong if I'm wrong, but whatever that number was, anything after that that was considered additional services, we might look at a 5% or I think I even said a 2.5% or a 2%. I was thinking about trying to get some money in the hand to help with some facilities things for the County Board of Education this year while we look at our budget later in the year and figure a few other things out before we sign a check for 30 years You know, that's that was my thought trying to you know Give a patholo for breads better no bread for this year is what I was trying to do.

You know take action All right, so Daniel going back to this public facilities and education What do we need to do as a council just look at this can you lock down some of those numbers to make sure that you're pretty accurate with if we reallocate that public facilities money and the education money and then potentially look at some other funding streams to help get to that number that they requested.

Yeah, I mean, there's a myriad of options as far as the new money goes. Like I said, the thing that would make the absolute most sense is an Avalon property tax increase. It's got to be voted on by the citizens. Citizens have said no twice. That doesn't mean that a different pitch with a different plan might be better. I don't know. but that is the, that's a very stable revenue stream and you want very stable revenue streams to pay for very fixed long-term debt. It doesn't matter whether that's something that the city school system, whether we build a high school or build, you know, go fix the junior high, build a new junior high somewhere as a city school system. It doesn't really matter what the project is. If it's fixed that steady income and reliable income is the best way to go. Now we can, you know, if that's a no go and we don't want to go through that again, then we can try and piecemeal this thing together. It's gonna be very complicated, but like I said, I think we'll get there. It's just, the city school system's gonna be more, I'm talking about the six million a year. City school system is more expensive, especially if you wanna do it plus the fancy new project. But to your question, I mean, I'm comfortable with the numbers I gave you. in terms of what we have to allocate out of education and the available money in the public facilities buckets.

From my perspective, I think that's the route that we need to start looking at because they've been asking for some number. So if you feel comfortable and if we feel comfortable with that number, then we need to start looking at plans to figure out how to make up the difference if it's feasible but I just I know that they've been asking for a number and that's my objective was for tonight was to get some type of number I know we've talked about a lot of things We've heard from them, but my goal tonight was to get some type of number. So if we can get Daniel, if he's comfortable and if he can make sure we're comfortable with that, then we need to try to come up with a plan, like you said, a piecemeal that's together to help them. And like I said, this is not a new tax. This is just reallocation of that one penny that we already have in place. So I think that's just the most common sense approach now. We have some numbers. Let's piecemeal this thing together and figure it out. I mean, that's just me. My opinion.

All right. Mr. Mayor.

Yes, sir. Thank you. I guess I'm probably like the old man here in the room. I didn't go to Prattville High School. I went to Autauga County High School. And I know there's some here in the audience that attended that school as well. But the reason why I bring all that up, because when I got here in this role in 2011, we were just months away of not being able to make payroll. And some of that was because we were trying to give so much to so many different entities. And we have to remember, as has been stated up here, We're here to provide services. We are a service-oriented organization. And with that, you have to have people. You have to have equipment. And you have to have money for projects. Now, so many of the counselors up here have voted on so many of these projects that we're talking about with this one penny and have enjoyed it. And the citizens have enjoyed it. And because of a lot of those investments, our revenues are increasing. People are wanting to come here to Prattville. To some degree, our success is creating some different challenges for us. But what we do decide today is going to be setting the foundation for tomorrow. Because the talk about education in Autauga County has been going on for decades and decades and decades. And recently, there's been two attempts at it. But I will say... that those two attempts could have been done so much better than what was put out there. And I think that if it was really marketed correctly, there is a pathway. And by gutting departments or going back and piece milling monies here and there, there's sometimes unforeseen consequences in that. Again, when I first got here and helped me out Council President Whaley, I believe you were in the fire department. We had some police cars. They cranked them up. They didn't shut them off during their tour of duty because they might not crank back up. Help me out as well. Wastewater. They had a backhoe. What was it called? Maybe you don't remember. Backhoe in the box because we were not properly funding them back then. So they bought a backhoe from the state that was tore down in a box. They brought it back. And we had to change the culture for our employees. And we are getting it there. We are getting there. Recently, there's been talk about a pay plan. We're going to go in here and piecemeal a lot of this stuff. And the budget is going to be presented to y'all in a couple of months, something along that line. We really need some really good direction from this council because from what I'm hearing, I don't even know if that pay plan ought to be put in there as well. Our employees have earned it. Our employees deserve it. Council has not voted on it yet, but we are working toward what we see as a sustainable pay plan for our employees for a good while to come. Education is important, and I don't want anybody to take from today that I'm not supporting education. My family and I have supported education several different ways over the many, many years. But to come up and all of a sudden, and sometimes you have to do some of this spitballing or some of this piecemealing, but when you have a project, a problem, big as this we cannot piecemeal it we cannot spitball it out here like this and and come up with a a good project a good product is what I meant to say a good product because again this is out here in the public our employees are are ones we need to let them know that we are supporting them. We do need to let the education world know that we are supporting them, but not at the expense of our employees or the expense of our buildings here or our expense of future projects as well. I think there is a pathway, an avenue, but we've got to be able to come together with a partnership Because there's some out there saying that we cannot dictate to them how to use that money. And to me, if we are giving them money, we need to hold them more accountable than the way that we have with this last bit of money that we give to the Board of Ed. One of the things I also like to say that I've heard out there for so many times, oh, look what the county does. Look what the county does. The county gives the Board of Ed this amount of money. Well, in my opinion, when an entity, federal, state, county, municipal, levies a fee, levies a tax, whatever it might happen to be, those entities are not paying that tax or that fee. It's we the people. So we need to remember that we are in this all together, but we have so many things, so many other needs out there, and just really come up with so many of these things I'm not going to say what I was going to say because it's going to come out wrong. But I wanted to address about our SROs. When SROs were first brought to the city by a former superintendent, we were asked to partner with them. They came to us. And then I believe it was Councilman Stripling. the one that came up with the 75% pool on that one. So it's not where we just decided that this is what we're going to charge them. That was a partnership with that one. Plus also, the more you give, that means the more you're going to have to take from some other areas because we all have basically limited income as well. And also on the Old Ridge Road, why would we give the county a pass on fulfilling their obligations? That's where we're supposed to be working together and having a partnership. And I think it's very, very important for Old Ridge Road to be recognized as a collector road, because it just makes it a better product, and also we can actually get more funding on that one. If anybody has been keeping up with some of our legislative acts, some of our budgeting dollars are already being under attack as well, because the last legislation session They changed some of our business license formulas. Right now, we don't know exactly what that kind of hit that's going to be. They also changed, I think, 3%, maybe not 3%, a credit card transaction that is being changed. That's going to take a little bit of a hit for us as well. So I say all this. I say all this because our revenues are very, very important. And when it comes to some of the deferred maintenance, whether it's with the buildings or replacement of the car, replacement of the fire trucks, whatever it might happen to be, I just say look at our neighbors over here with their deferred maintenance over here with the jail. That has really created a big situation. So I say all this because it's very, very important that we get this right. And I think there is a pathway. I think there is a willingness from most of the people, and I think that's where we need to come together, do some more marketing. I think some of this education money that has been put in the coffers, I think that money can be put to some use to help promote and educate a lot of our citizens and help. Let's build this up as a grassroots effort. Now, it's been brought up already about the monies that we give CAC and also the Targert County Board of Ed. That agreement is coming up in September. We do so many other things, in-kind services, as mentioned a little bit earlier. There are some that are documented, but there are so many more that are not even documented. But we're out there helping our Targert County educators here, and we can still do more, but we need to make certain we get it right. Now, In my opinion, this agreement that's coming up at the end of September, I believe that it is, with CAC, Anatolia County Board of Education, until we find exactly which pathway we as a community are going to be moving in, I don't believe that those dollars ought to come out of the education coffers until we know exactly which pathway that we're heading in. But I hope that a lot of this information has been brought up. I hope it will be put to a very good and positive use because sometimes it's so much easier to be negative than it is to be positive. And I think that's what it's going to really take for us to come together in a positive way because the city, as it has already been mentioned, we're the, maybe not this exact way, but we are the heavy lifters for so, so many. But we need to be very precise about that Because, again, when I first got in here, we were finding out we could not make payroll in a few months. We were trying to help too many others. We're here to do the best we can to provide services, and we have to make certain that we're just not giving the farm away. Thank you.

Councilman Newman.

I just want to go on record again as I never used the word gut any departments. I just was simply talking about a tax or a 5% cut or 2.5 or 2. I mean, I owe it to my constituents to make sure we're spending our money accurately or we can leverage our funding right before we try to do anything else. The thing that's going to fix this problem for private is revenue, revenue. Taxes aren't gonna, no one wants to raise taxes, I get it. Sales tax is already too high, I don't wanna raise that tax either. The only thing that's gonna help us is bringing in revenue. When I knocked on doors and I talked to my constituents and my constituents talk to me today, they have said several times, if we don't get our education piece worked out, they are selling and leaving. And it's not, they didn't say, if we don't get our fire department or our parks or our, they said education. So it's extremely important that we look at this. And I completely want to make sure that our city, and I say to the mayor, I've said this to him many times, I don't mind saying this publicly, this man right here probably saved this city from going bankrupt. Absolutely, everybody knows that. I agree with that 100%. I'll make that statement publicly right here. His cost-cutting measures and the things he did, I don't have any issue with that. And I'm not saying that we need to go back down a road of doing that. I'm simply saying we can look at our dollars, look at our budget, look at what we got, figure out what we can spend, and do something to help the school system until we can get our feet under us a little bit longer, a little bit better. I absolutely want to go on record as saying I support the city employees. They work hard. I know they do. I see them every day out doing their job. I'm proud of them. I'm proud of my city. That's why I ran for this position, because I love my city and I'm proud of it. But a pause one year to throw a little money around a different direction and reallocate it where we need to, I don't think is unreasonable. And if we decide as a group we don't want to do that, I'm fine with that, too. I think revenue is what's going to fix it for us. And I'm hoping that we can not try to put any more pressure on Amy, but revenue is going to fix our problem. I'm going to be really hard-pressed to agree to a 30-year lease agreement on a car if I can buy it out right myself. So I want to make sure those numbers line up so that we can do that if we can. I think that's what's best for the city of Praval. And if we can't do that, then we'll go the other route.

For you there, Whaley. I mentioned Tri-County meeting. Have you had any success or any updates on how that's going?

So I had already reached out to a couple of different entities, including talking with Mr. Woodfin and Commission Chairman Thompson. about the possibility of a joint meeting that would get the Board of Education, the County Commission, and the City Council on the same stage in order to have a public discussion where we were able to talk about all of the different options and really challenges that we all face. And it's... I equated it to this when I talked to Mr. Woodfin and when I talked to Chairman Thompson. We can go online and watch the Board of Education meeting. And people can go online and watch the city council meeting. And people can go online or go to a county commission meeting. And each one of them is going to provide them with a little piece of the puzzle. but if you're sitting at home and trying to put that puzzle those pieces together and see a clear picture the images just not there so i have reached out mister woodfin uh... apparently i'm sure spoke with the board and the board is willing to meet with the council on the same stage uh... i have reached out and i've talked with uh... commissioner thompson He said that at that time he had not talked to the rest of the commissioners and he didn't know if them meeting with us was going to be beneficial. They knew what they give to the school board and they knew what they had available for the funding agreement if that was the route that was chosen. So I also reached out to the Chamber of Commerce as a neutral party. who in turn reached out to Central Alabama Community College, who agreed to allow us to use that facility as long as church wasn't meeting. And was some recommendation and some thought processes there that maybe Jeff Lynn be a kind of a moderator for the discussion, being at a neutral facility. It's not a BOE facility. It's not a county facility. It's not a city facility. And have a neutral party there to kind of facilitate the discussion and keep us on track. And I haven't spoken directly with him, but I feel like he is willing, from conversations that I've had in the past with him, he is willing to help work through that. So hopefully, if the council is all willing, then tomorrow morning I will try to put a date on the calendar soon, very soon. I don't know about the school board, but Mr. Woodfin told me that if we come up with a date, y'all make it happen. I've talked with Commission Chairman Thompson this evening, and I will say his mother's in the hospital, so he's kind of out of sorts as far as keeping up with things right now. But I'll reach back out to him in the morning, and I will talk with the chamber and Central Alabama again and see if that's what everybody wants to do, and let's have an education roundtable discussion, and let's all come together and put it all out there.

That's exactly what I'd like to see. And any potential partners, even potentially the state representatives, senators, obviously would love to have the county commission if they're obviously want to be a partner in this. Did they give you any inclination on where they stand as far as commitments at this point?

They have a figure in place, and it's not my information to give, but I guess they've shared with the board. They have a dollar amount in mind that they were willing to participate in the funding agreement act, but I would rather them not. I'm not going to answer for them. That's not my place to do that. So I will make that known to them once again that those are the types of questions that are going to come up in this meeting. maybe some representation from the commission, if not the whole commission being there. It sounds like the council is all willing, and as far as I know, the school board is all willing for us to come together and have this public discussion about education and where we go in the future. I will work on that again tomorrow morning. and like i said i you know reached out to the chamber and and cat being neutral neutral parties and saying hey we don't need to run it the county doesn't need to run it the board doesn't need to run it we need somebody uh... and and i think uh... presently and has a very good grasp of the knowledge on education and has been involved in a lot of different types of you know different types of education and and so he would be a a good neutral party to to kind of lead that discussion and keep everybody on track you know i'm i'm sure some of us might be able to get off track pretty quick and i think he will be able to to facilitate that and keep us on track so i would if nobody else has anything i would just close tonight saying that we do understand that education is important i would reiterate that the the request from uh... superintendent woodson is how do we need to know what if anything, in addition to what's being done now, what the city is willing to commit towards education. And I hope that we have shown you tonight that we have not just been sitting around not doing anything. There's a lot of information that's been gathered online if you know if we're looking at a funding agreement we we have to look at what that's going to look like us for us for thirty years but we also have to look at the infrastructure piece that's associated with it uh... we cannot put a a school in that location without uh... the traffic and infrastructure that we that we saw tonight you know i don't know what the the final answer is i don't know what the dollar amount is that that hey we say we're willing to to put towards education. But I do think we've all said it here tonight. We do agree that education is important. And it is important for the livelihood of our community for years to come. It's... uh... it's not something that it's not an issue the issues are not something that have happened overnight and the solution is not something we've been able to come up with in sixty days or ninety days now uh... but we have we have been diligently looking at all of the different avenues to come up with what it is and how much it is and how we're going to fund it there's been some some pretty tough discussions here tonight there's been you know and i i appreciate that I think that's what we needed to do as far as a council is we needed to have those tough discussions. And I think that this future meeting of the Board of Education, the Commission, and the council together will allow us to have those tough discussions as a whole. It will allow us to get those things out and to put them out. And hopefully the public will get involved and see the need for an increase for funding for education. i mean if if nothing else that is one end result we can definitely agree on is that our public understands that where we are right now as far as funding education is not cutting it it's not it's not where it needs to be but it needs to it needs to originate with the people the people have to be willing to to buy into it and to say yes we're we're going to fund education so All right. Is there any closing comments from council before we? None? All right. So it is 822, and we will call this work session adjourned. Hey, I'm good.