Local Planning Agency - Regular Meeting

all right uh we are going to go ahead and get call this meeting to order let's start with the pledge of allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america All right, we're calling this meeting to order September 16th. It is noon. I'm going to go ahead and get started with a roll call. I don't see, well, I'll be doing a motion for bringing Annie on, but we'll do a roll call. Rebecca Link, liaison for council.

John Dislier.

Joy Sullivan.

Rick Lowry.

Michelle Cherney. Beverly Milligan.

Neil Mathis, parks and rec manager. Michelle also Tina yell. She did ask for a excused absence. She's sick today.

Alright, so I'm looking for a motion to approve the excused absence of Tina. Do I have a motion to approve so blue second second right? And then I will need a motion to bring Annie on virtually. Do I have a motion to approve? So moved second second all in favor. I let's add any on please. All right. The next part is public comment. I'm just going to go through. Whoops. All right. Annie, can you hear us? Can you hear us? Great. Welcome. Thank you. We know there's a great deal of community interest in the future of the Bay Oaks Pool, and we appreciate everyone who is here today. The Boar Cab here, today is going to be an opportunity for us to present what is happening with the pool, and we want to hear from the public. I want everyone to have an opportunity to be heard whether you support your proposed design, oppose it, or simply just have questions. I ask that comments are respectful and we will follow through with the three minutes as best as we can. I'm going to be doing the approval of the agenda, but I'm going to start off with a motion to adjust the agenda to allow for public comment after opulence design, because I don't think it's fair to ask you the questions only be before. So I would like a motion to approve or modify the agenda to add public comment after the opulent design. Do I have a motion to approve? So moved. Second.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. We will need to take a vote on the adjustment. Nope. Okay. Then we're good. All right. With that, do we have an approval of the final agenda with the amendment to add the public comment after opulence review? Motion to approve. So moved. Second.

SECOND.

ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO NEED THE NEXT THING IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 19TH MEETING. HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM? DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? SO MOVED. SECOND?

I'LL SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR?

AYE.

WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING. We will then move into Neil's staff report.

Thank you. And I just want to mention, I think I talked to everybody, but the report that I handed out today is the most recent. Unfortunately, the one online was the July, so I apologize for that. But I just wanted to go over. We have our Fright Night Halloween event coming up on October 23rd. We're still looking for some volunteers for that. looking for some folks to participate in the Trunk or Treat, candy donations. That's our big community event. I think this is our 36th year of doing that, so we're really excited. We're going to have some new features. We're expecting a big turnout, as always. So just to highlight that, we also have some teen events coming up. We have a... TEEN NIGHT HAPPENING THIS FRIDAY, ACTUALLY, FROM 6 TO 9 P.M. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF TEENS SIGNED UP FOR THAT, SO WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT. WE HAVE A TEEN BUSH GARDENS TRIP ON MONDAY, OCTOBER 19TH. REGISTRATION IS OPEN FOR THAT. And then also a team night, October 9th, we'll be taking the teams to the Oblivion Haunted House attraction at the Lee County Civic Center. So excited about that. Also to mention, not this Saturday, but next, we have I-9 Sports Jamboree to kind of kick off our first fall, or I should say winter season of I-9 Youth Sports at Bay Oaks. And that season starts Saturday, October 17th, right after the Sands and Suds Saturday on October 10th. And then also I just wanted to mention I did include and I'll start doing this each report like we talked about the number of day passes Memberships that we sell And you can see that all on your port I won't go through everything and then also just how many folks we have Each hour that we're open at Bay Oaks So you can kind of get an idea when our busiest times are when it's a little bit slower and just what our average is so August, September are our slowest months. Don't look at that and be discouraged because we are gonna pick up quite a bit when we get to season. Yeah, is there any questions about the report?

No, Neil, since we have a lot of people watching us via remote and people here, I'll put the request out for bringing candy. Want them to drop that off at Bay Oaks.

That'd be great. Thank you.

So if you're out there shopping, grab a bag of candy and drop it at Bay Oaks. It's a fun event for the kids. Let's get them lots of candy. Thank you.

Thank you.

Also, would they call Bay Oaks if they want to volunteer?

Yeah, we've actually put it out on our Facebook page, but they can come in and they can call, and we've got just a simple form they have to fill out to be a volunteer, and that's it. We just submit it and do the background, and we're good to go.

Any more questions? All right, I am going to, we're gonna turn it over to Opulent on the presentation. I do need to bring to your attention from the board cab that you received an email this morning at approximately 10 a.m. that you are to disregard that email. That should not have been sent out. There will be no discussion on the topic per staff. We apologize for that so with that I'm not quite sure Annie I think we're gonna be losing you for a little while during the presentation because opulent will be coming remotely so we will grab you after You could be able to watch the presentation Good afternoon everyone

So I think we'll start. I don't know how much you guys have had a chance to review the material that we've sent or if you've seen the videos. But we can start with the video of the design as it is now for you guys to look at.

From there, I can pull up some still images and talk about

Wonder if there's a mute on that.

Thank you.

Okay, so I don't know how many of you have seen that before, or this is the first time, but definitely be presented to the other board or the city that we've been working with, the associates you guys have been working with in the city, and they've loved it. They haven't had a tremendous amount of changes or, I guess, feedback to revise anything. property at all whatsoever to fix the space and i think we've you know just enhanced the footprint that's already there we used a lot of different elements between decking materials artificial turf to bring interest into such a large area formed up along with a lot of shaded areas

Great, thank you very much. I apologize. What is your first name?

Jason. Thank you. Thank you, Jason. What we're going to do is go through, we're going to start off with the board cab here individually and go through questions from us. And then we are going to allow the public to also ask you questions and kind of out of there. We'll then summarize up what our recommendations at the end of the meeting would be to go back to town council and any recommended changes we have. I'll start off with, I've had, being the chair here, I've had a lot of public input, so I think I'm just gonna go out and bomb out some questions, which have been pretty consistent from the public. So the first one is, what is the estimated total construction cost and how much is expected to be covered by the grant? Were you supplied those target numbers?

Yes, we were. And so we have provided some preliminary numbers. What we're looking to do in this phase, obviously, the whole project has to go out for an estimate. We're going to do our best to use all market prices and individual pricing. We're going after getting multiple estimates for things like the and all these ancillary items that are part of the project.

So we can wrap this all into one summary.

budget that's initially so right now um we're looking at for the construction and major components of the project and i'm major components meaning everything except for things like earthlets shade structures um i don't believe i have landscaping in it but for the majority of all the other construction part of it to renovate everything proposed slash

You are breaking up just a little bit, so I want to go back and clarify. Can you state once again what is not included?

Right now, what I've the rock work, the slide, the kiddie pool, everything that would take to complete the project from a construction standpoint. The rest of it, what I separated it out to is accessories, things like partitions, tapes, tee huts, sail shades. in addition to the count's discretion of what they include there, things that I include in the design. So I wanted to pick up options for you guys for those.

So we've located all those materials.

I'm going to break in here. IT, we are really having a hard time with this connection. Oh, wow. I'm not sure which end it is on, but if I'm having a hard time hearing it, the public is definitely having a hard time hearing you.

I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm plugged in and I do virtual calls on this setup every day. I don't typically have any type of connection problems. I always try to be logged in and see if that's a difference.

Yeah, and then maybe it's on our side. No?

Maybe, yeah, try again to call back in.

Yeah, I can log, I'll log back in.

Let's try that just because this is a very important subject.

Yeah, I can hear the audio just fine too.

While we're waiting for him to come back, what I believe I just heard is a lot of that tropical stuff that we see in the design is not part of this 4.3 million. Did everybody hear the same thing that I just heard? And that's been a lot of the public feedback is why are we spending and making this big resort full? Those are future options. This baseline is just the pool. Does everybody hear the same thing I did?

everyone. Can you hear me any better now?

There we go. Let's give it a shot. Okay. Okay. So I just to qualify, I think, you know, a lot of the feedback that we've gotten is we've built this big tropical, beautiful pool and believe me, it's stunning and love to see the future. But a lot of those auxiliary, um, the, uh, are not included in that base. Those are options that will be added on in a later basis. So thank you for clarifying that.

And the reason being, if I may, would be it wasn't asked of us as a design firm to detail out the layout of potential furniture or comfort areas or things like that. It was mainly to design the project itself. Within the design, it only enhances the design to show you guys a complete vision of what the area could be and what you could do with it. And that was more the purpose of it than providing

Yeah, and I think just from the confusion is we didn't see a picture of what we're going to get for $4.3 million. We saw a picture of all of the additional options, and that's where I think a lot of the feedback's been coming. So I don't know if there's a way for you to do a snapshot and take all of the non-essential items off of that pool so we can see what it would look like as the baseline of the $4.3 million. Just a thought.

Yes, 100%. And it'll also be outlined specifically engineering that is underway right now.

I do have the initial page layout of the engineering that's been done thus far and show you guys how it all fits in there. And yes, it will only be pertinent to all the construction.

So really the only things that we're looking at the leading

Michelle, I can also add to your point. The grant does not cover things like furniture and ancillary items, so that is why I'm sure that opulent scope was tight. Those other things, like you say, those are all public interest and desire that will come later.

which is great but when it was presented the first time that wasn't stated and i think that's the reason why we're all here so i think that that qualifies um that so in terms of when you're doing the design and this goes to the next level of the bid are you specifically saying use this tile or this pool equipment or is that generically open to the bidder every um every part of it i will make recommendations the town is open to selecting with

And for every part of it, I'm gonna give you three material recommendations

All right. You have a lot of pool of experience. Have you looked at what our annual operating costs would be on this pool? that's not yours okay so that would be a town thing okay um a big discussion we had last time is the lifeguards have you looked at this pool from a standpoint how many lifeguards do you expect that we will need for visuals um out there and as soon as we get through engineering i'll get you exact she's um working on all those specifics right now especially

I mean, just segue real quick into the wheelchair access. I actually have.

So we will have the handicap accessibility in the design?

Yes. Okay. So going back to the auxiliary items that are not included now, it makes me, the waterfalls, is that included or is that one of the extras?

No, the rock work and the waterfalls are all included within that budget range. Okay. And so it may come to a point where the town says, hey, maybe we want to do something different than rock work, right?

And we

in Brock where I can put that towards all the other ancillary features. And let's do something more engineered that covers the slide structure and slide stairs. That was really painful because when I first walk out to Fort Myer Street School, the biggest eyesore I see is at this slide. And so it's just a big, huge steel structure. It looks very industrial. It doesn't look very . It's more cozy.

Great. Thank you. What is the final proposed depth that you gave? It is five feet. Okay. Um, I, that was some big ones from the town. So what I'd like to now go through is this group and bring up your additional questions. We'll go through more cabin and then we'll open it up for the public for questions.

Hi. I appreciate that we all appreciate that we have hurricanes and everything, but in a perfect weather world, what do you anticipate the longevity of the pool before a massive refit or something like that? What's your anticipation?

in a commercial aspect, you're going to be looking at probably refinishing resurfacing the pool every seven to 10 years. Depending on on use and overall air. So two chemicals and there's a lot of but that would be your typical way. But outside of that, you wouldn't need to replace the top of to servicing. And outside of that, we're recommending and proposing materials that are all natural stone. So between the decking, it will never fade. Because it's a natural stone, I would say travertine, that meets the sleep coefficient for commercial requirements. but those materials are all natural, they're marbles, veneer fur.

Jason, Jason, I'm sorry, I'm gonna interrupt you. Can we can you try moving towards the mic? I'm getting my phones blowing up here. The public cannot hear you. I don't know if you can get closer to a mic or let's try something different.

I apologize.

Actually, that's that you just fixed it. That works much better. Thank you.

Whether our materials that we use would be all marbles or travertines that have been here for millions of years. We don't want to steal them. We don't want to do anything that's going to create an ongoing maintenance plan for you. They're natural materials that are easily taken care of, bleach and water, something that's simply easy to maintain but will be there forever. So really, the only thing that has ongoing serviceability after we're done with this renovation or 4050 years to come will be the interior finishing potential tile. The overall chemical day to day levels and actually storms. But all the materials I mean, if we're using natural rock and natural stone, there's

Great. Thank you. Obviously settling patio and that sort of thing, will you be warranting any of that? Will you be coming back a year later, two years later if the patio needs to be redone, that sort of thing?

They're only doing the design. This is not the contractor. They are only putting the design together. They're not the contractor. So this is strictly we're going to be focused on design only.

I can answer that question for you though very easily because every contractor in the Florida area is going to give you a one-year everything warranty. So within one year, I guarantee you that that will have settling and we want to let it move, let it go through the bringing season. And at the end of that year, we're going to come back and reset any of those papers that have moved, adjusted whatsoever. And that's typically the thing is they're going to expose any weak points within that first year. And that's why we have that everything warranty.

Okay. And just for clarification purposes to put on the record, it's when you talk about the accessibility around the design, it's ADA compliant?

Correct.

100%. Thank you.

That's it for me. Rick, you want to go next?

I have no questions. Thank you.

Joy? Do I have to have a question or can I provide feedback? Okay. Well, all I can say is I do think it's beautiful. And, you know, the rocks and the waterfalls are just fabulous. However, the feedback that I'm getting from most of our residents, it's too resort-like, you know, and that it's something that more of a municipal pool where there's swimming lessons and aerobics and set up more for those sort of school activities is what I think people were looking for. But I'm gonna just defer to John because I know he has a few design feedback and he's the expert and I'm not. I guess that's the only feedback that I really have is that it was a little too much of a resort type feel and then the need for maybe toning it down a little bit.

Joy, that is a common thing I heard. I had a couple of people come back to me and state, you know, if we do have a little bit of a resource dive pool, Margaritaville gets $65 a day. So potentially could bring some revenue for pools if we've got a nice little destination spot.

They sell booze.

Public comment will wait till later, Howie. So thank you, Joy. John?

Yeah, mine... I don't want to have this appear at all like a competing presentation, but I'm afraid it may look like that. So I wanted to say that up front. I am a very visual person. I mean, you're in design, so you're obviously very visual people as well. And I've taken one of the photos that you've presented and made some little adjustments, and I wonder if it works in technology right now to put up one of those pictures just to look at, just to get an idea of what I'm thinking because I don't think I'm gonna describe it very well. Is that something that we could do?

I know that right now the challenge is that we have our contractor connecting virtually so we can do one or the other. But we have printed copies that we can distribute to all the committee members.

Yeah, and then maybe after I can have another opportunity to show these visually to the room and have them in. A record. I will attempt to, can you just kind of pass this to me?

Keep it to myself.

So all the information that you're providing to all the advisory committee members right now will be incorporated to our portal. So it will be available to the public and admitted to the record after the meeting.

Okay. I keep getting accused of being an expert. And my career has kind of evolved that direction. I do a lot of consulting with private firms, municipalities, schools, a couple of nations that are building aquatic centers. I'm actually leaving for Dubai tomorrow to do something pretty fancy. I wish we had the budget that I'm playing with over there. And I'd bring you along. I don't know if it's OK for me to say that. Dubai is such a horrible place to visit, and I'm kidding. It stems from a couple of concerns of one of the design features, and I think that before anything I want to say, this is beautiful. This is absolutely beautiful. And that's my opinion of the design that you've brought us. It truly is beautiful. And in the practical side, I have to try to decipher, OK, what's the programming of this pool? The programming of the pool, I think in the whole project, we did things out of order. We didn't find out how we want to use the pool and then give that feedback to the town council to then have staff instruct you with the programming that we wanted out of this pool because that would have driven the design. So what we have now is we have a design given to us where we have to figure out programming. And so it's kind of happening out of order or of probably the most effective order for a municipal pool. because there's users before 8 AM that are just staring at a black line. And then at 8, there's users that are doing exercise in parts of the pool that they can stand up in. And by design, hopefully, parts of the pool they can't stand up in. That would be water exercise. So there'd be shallow water exercise for those that really feel most comfortable standing and where it's a little bit over their head, but they feel safe that they could, you know, the technical term tippy toe on the bottom. the first concern there is before we get to competitive swimming, yes, I was a swim coach full time and I did fun things at the pool, but I don't want to be pictured as chasing an aquatic center that's just all about training and racing, because those are boring. They are boring pools to look at, they're boring to go to, and we don't want to have boring at all. You brought us the opposite of boring, so thank you for that. But the depth thing, Even staying at 5'3 or 5 and 1 half feet would provide for that programming of a little bit deeper water exercise. And I think that is important to the user. If you really have spent a lot of time in a municipal pool, I can tout that I was an Olympic swimming coach. And Neil can tout that he's been running aquatic centers forever. But I'll tell you, the women that come to your water exercise are in charge of your pool. And if you believe anything else, you're fooling yourself. So that probably should have been the first room we were in, is what do you want out of your pool? The next thing is just base life safety. And it's really concerning to have that. I mean, we already have a big obstruction in that outdated, and I will state for the record, ugly slide. And the scaffolding ladder that you have to go up that's steel and rusty. And it's usually rusty the day after it's built in that type of design. You've brought a design element that makes that pleasing to look at and fun to have. going back to the water exercise, they're not gonna hear the instructor with a waterfall going on, they're not. So that will have to be turned on and turned off, that's practical, that's easy. But what if, and I'm sorry that you're not getting this visual, but you will as soon as we're finished with the meeting, and I hope you're open to it, maybe having the opportunity to move the slide where you would get on the slide kind of transfer over in your mind's eye to the splash pool where the arch is with the water feature over there that's at the edge of the pool. If the slide started there and terminated in the center of that splash pool, and there's all kinds of manufacturers that can make that happen. There's a picture that I have that I handed out that shows the slide just stopping in the middle of that splash pool. There's a later picture that shows what it would practically look like in the real world. It's a termination point for a slide that doesn't need to be going into a deep pool. It's something that's safer. And it's something that is trending in water parks and municipal splash zones. And we'll make sure that you have those pictures. It's on, I think, the second or third page. The next thing is it is important to state absolutely for the record that this pool was built as a six lane training and competitive swimming pool. It was in its original ideas. It was built for that, or it would never have those lines on the bottom. And that really needs to be preserved. And I did have a conversation with Will. It was via email, so those are always fun conversations waiting for the next to answer. but showing him, and I provided a picture here, and it's just simply a picture I took of my wife training at Bay Oaks, and you can see in the background the starting block that's installed. There were six of them pre-storm, and I don't know if they've been stored somewhere or if they conveniently disappeared or where they are, but that's not something that we need to go to the county or to anyone to talk about replacing what was there. because that was an operable part of this facility, and we really as a community need that to go forward for so many reasons. What I worry about is the trend of a beautiful facility. It shows a lot of, this design shows a lot of the trends of right now, and that's why a lot of times municipal pools appear a little boring, because they're really a utility that might have some improvements to look better or to have some fun little parts to them. Waterfalls might not be cool in 10 years, and we have a waterfall. That slide, they might go away. Liability of a slide is a big issue, and if that ever comes to a head and we have three slides, can we afford to remove them? The design goes from one slide to two and the splash area that you're entering doesn't have any separation, so there's a safety issue there. I don't have a bullet list for you, but those are some concerns that if we're able to make adjustments like that now, since we're still just on paper, it would really be great. line of sight, when you step into a facility with my hat on or with a lifeguard's hat on, and they look across the facility and they can see all of the surface from over almost every angle, they feel good about their shift. They feel good about their job. They feel good that when somebody on a Monday morning starts patting their chest, They're doing it in full sight of at least two lifeguards and maybe another person at the pool. And that mound and that structure prevents that. I think it's nickel and diming to say it might cost us another guard. I think it's a bigger issue that it might cost us a life. And I don't think I'm being overdramatic when I say that. I did grab your exact design off of I think somebody posted somewhere, and I used my friend Jimmy Gemini. I call him Jimmy. I probably should never have revealed that. And I had long conversations with AI to try to just move the slide over to the other pool. It also ended up increasing that that sunning area, the shelf, actually gets a little bit bigger with what I suggested. And that could provide even more space for people to use that. That's probably going to get used more than anything when the pool is just open for open swim, is that sun shelf. Because people want to be at the pool, but they want to be cooling off. So that's absolutely outstanding. And the fact that we got permission by not having a denial of that design accelerated us into not just having a rectangular tank of water. So that has, I think at least through one level, and this was just in a conversation with Will from the city, at least from one level, we have a go ahead to be able to, to do that sun shelf or that, that splash shelf. Um, I know there's a whole nother level because the money doesn't really even come from just the county. It's, it's, It's eventually federal money, so I hope that on the town side, we're taking steps to get answers at the next level so that we don't build something, this is where I'm not talking to the designer, I'm talking to the town, so that we don't go and do something thinking the county's okay with releasing money for this project and the federal government comes back and says, wait, is supposed to be like for like. So if we got gray area at one level and there's still another level, I think hopefully we're pushing hard for that permission. And then I could go on for about three or four days, because I just talk a lot. But there's one final thing that I want to, this is just experience talking at pools being refurbished. I'm going to put on my gloom and doom hat. that 100% of the concrete underneath that pool and everything is going to have to come up? Is that the plan in what you've planned? Because the tree coming out of the drain right now tells me that it's rooted into earth. And then the new little lawn on the shallow side tells me that that crack is into earth. And if we try to patch those cracks In a couple of years, we're going to be patching them again. So I won't go to the far gloom and doom. Can you just let me know what you think?

So the way we've approached it is the pitiful is no longer

Jason Jason I have to I have to interject here the discussions regarding the kiddie pool cannot be discussed it has not been approved okay it cannot it needs to come off the the the we're keeping the pool as is the I believe Rebecca helped me. We're saying that the kiddie pool- Is just not up for discussion today. Up for discussion.

If we could just leave that tabled. Please. Thank you.

So the main pool, is that a full demo replace?

The request of the town was to work with the existing shell, and the reason, the only reason that I'm able to add to that pool is because we would not be cutting down on the shell for the 18 inches on the couple ends, and we're able to increase the size without eliminating or compromising the structural integrity of what's there. Here's the thing is, right now I have not taken core samples to see what the structural

Yeah, because just with other experience, and even I talked to a few people that are doing their backyard pools still from Ian, where they've bought property and now the pool was there, and they were in that hope phase where, well, it's just some silt and sand in that line, and they're learning now that no. your pool needs to be replaced. There's a lot of lines under there that we really can't get to, and it will need to be replaced. So my biggest concern is the cost when we start finding those things out. So it's not really even a design question, but it's a method of replacement question. So that question might not even be for now, but when we're looking at this total budget of under $5 million, It really is scary. And I hope it's not overdramatic, but what lies beneath is a mystery right now. And it really is. It's a startling mystery if you've ever been around a pool rehab. it's it's why there's a whole new industry of pool rehab companies that come in and trough around the whole perimeter put in a new gutter system and new lines up high and then they they use a liner and they then they're able to leave the entire pool intact and you're just using it as a strength for your line that's a good point i'm going to interrupt for a second jason connor

Can you give us some insight onto what type of inspections are being done even prior to this design, understanding what's happening down below and where does that fall into the design? I should have said something up front. We have Jason and Connor both here for technical support from the town. Thank you.

Yeah, good afternoon. Jason Freeman for the record. So we're here to help with the compliance and the grant and the procurement, but I don't have project specifics like that. But I do know with CDBGR projects, they do have to conduct what they call the environmental review. I believe in that might be some of those reviews that they would do before before we actually construct anything and put the shovel in the ground. So and I think just to help with the whole bid process, so with these grants, we're in the design phase. So we've received authorization from Lee County to work with Opulent Outlines to get a design ready to go to put out for an invitation to bid. And that'll be our next step. So once we have 100% approved signed, sealed, engineered drawings, the town will take those documents and put them together all in what we refer to as an invitation to bid, ITB. And that'll be what we competitively put out on our demand star system. And that way we give the fair competitive competition to everybody out there. And we'll work with our grant management partners. So every step of the way, I think like was mentioned, we have Lee County as our subrecipient grant management team. So we check in with them weekly just to make sure we're still on track with everything. That will be part, I believe, of more of the construction phase. So we're only in design right now. So once I think the goal is our next step would be once the project management team and everybody, town council, makes their final design decisions, we'll have those translated with Opulent into an actual biddable plan. that we'll put out to everybody. And then we encourage to get as many bids as possible, just to, you know, encourage, you know, fair competitive procurement. And the town would, through coordination with Lee County, award that bid to the lowest responsive and responsible bidder. and that's just following the town procurement ordinance as well as federal and state procurement where we would look through and depending on what we receive which we encourage you know hopefully we receive multiple bids for for the construction that'll be where everybody who believes that they can put in for the ability from contractors to complete the construction. They'll put in, you know, we can do this for this amount of money. We can do this for this amount of money. And then that'll give us our whole project total there too. So we don't have any of those figures like in actual cost until we do put that out to bid. So everything right now is still on the design phase, but I just figured that would help with kind of the process of it. So we're still in the design phase right now. So from our end, you know, we're still working on getting those 100% engineered signed stamp plans the county has to approve those as well and then we believe also depending on the fema money and everything as well you might also have to stamp on that so we want to make sure we get all the approvals of the design first and then the town will take those plans and then put out an invitation to bid which will be our next step and that process is typically about 30 to 60 days to actually get you know bids received for it have our team review them and then make that recommendation to town council so I'm sorry, I don't have project specifics too much, but hopefully that helps.

If I may also just jump in one second, too, is the process that we've been following is, I guess, as I was saying, we're design-only at this point, and we had been given the green light to move it to engineering almost a month and a half ago. So since the last council meeting when we presented a couple weeks ago, we actually hit the brakes on engineering This is where I would really like to get clarification is we can't proceed with engineering until we get a completed design. So now we got the completed design and we move on to start engineering, which I'm now stopping because we wanted to get your guys' feedback, which could potentially make design changes, which is now engineering. So the way we work is we do all the conceptuals in a separate plan, separate file, and then So, right now, we're at an odd standstill because an engineer stopped it, and we're just basically at a standstill all the way down to final design. Which... Fake. Fake.

Thank you for qualifying, but again, we're not getting the question answered. So we have to do the design before we do the environmental or engineering study to find out if the shell of the pool is shot? Because, I mean, that's, I think that's what we're, it sounds like we're backwards. Would we not do the environmental study to find out if the pool shell is shot prior to putting this design together?

Yeah, if I can. I think that's the question for the whole process. And that's not pinning the designer.

No, no, no.

I'm looking that way when I do this because there's a screen over there.

Well, but we've got, to your point, what we just heard is the designer saying that that's being done in the engineering stage. So that would be something that I think that we would bring a motion to bring to council is to understand that that work really needs to be done first.

Yeah, and I think my question about demo was out of order of what we're doing today. So I apologize for that because I think that's, but I think in the bigger project, that is where the devil of the money is going to be when we give the scope of work and put it out to bid because we have to know if the shell needs to be replaced.

yeah absolutely and as part of the process typically what we'll have developed is called the eopc so the engineers opinion of probable cost and that'll be kind of what can help gauge us on realistically depending on what that final design is how much we're expecting that to cost as compared then we'll compare that to what actually comes in with bids in that process too so There are a couple checkpoints along the way, at least from our procurement side. But that's what we would collect is, yeah, we'd get that engineer's signed estimate saying we believe that this can be completed for this amount of money. And then that's what we can use as our basis when we go out to competitive procurement. And then we'll compare that to the bids that we receive.

So that's the process that's going to happen next?

Correct, that'll happen while we, so from our side, yeah, when we get the ready to go plans to put out to bid, along with those plans, we'll receive the engineer's estimates. And that'll let us know where we're at when we go out to bid then. So then once we do receive those bids, we can make a comparison to those.

So I guess the bottom line is when you say 4.3 to 4.5, does that include the possibility of challenges once the environmental is done? I mean, we're just trying to get a sense of cost. So have you considered that as a contingency in the 4.3 to 4.5? No. 4.5? No.

So your estimate is based on the shelving okay?

All right, so I think we need to just put a motion I think that We're we can talk later what to do with this subject and in terms of approaching town council.

Yeah, and I'm not sure And maybe Lizette you can help on points of order and the order to go because this that I handed out is I would like to propose to And I'm not proposing? I'm thinking out loud right now is make this as a proposal.

And I apologize because I think you, I don't know that you attended the last meeting. We have a new process that we follow and that's why Lizette's here. Right now we are only in discussion. So that's all. We're just all bringing our thoughts together. We are going to move to public feedback and then we will wrap back around again and all agree upon what motions or ideas we want to go to town council.

That was my question.

That's exactly right. So I just wanted to take the opportunity to remind all of you that as an advisory committee, your capability is actually to make recommendations to town council in which they will receive your recommendations, they may choose to act or not, or they may choose to direct the town manager

accordingly based on their recommendations but it's it's what we're doing today at this point we're not directing um our contractor to make any changes oh yeah no all right so then going back to you know what my my three minutes um it's always times 10 when it's john um are you open at this phase because the you know the the town council hasn't um voted to accept that 30 that certainly we all wanted to happen a week or two ago, but it didn't, and so we're talking about design here now where the community's gonna get some input, us being reps of the community. Are you open to the suggestion of moving that slide and having either more open deck space or a longer shelf and having an open line of sight where that structure is not there almost in the center of the facility. Are you open to doing that?

We work for you, so we're open to anything. Okay. under whatever guidelines are provided. Obviously, as a designer, I'm going to try and stretch those.

So again, we're not making any decisions.

John, we cannot make any recommendations. We can only listen. We cannot make any recommendations until the tail end of this meeting. So again, all we can do is have a discussion right now. That's the process we must follow.

And the recommendations that you're making are going to be presented to town council. So at some point during this meeting, those will be discussed in writing, and they go to town council. So the presentation from our vendor remains the same, and he's unable to make changes because that will come from the direction of council. We've got to be very clear on that.

Yeah, and my question was more of a process question, and he answered it right on the money. So thank you.

So can I just speak up? I just want to. Mike. Opulent can't take any direction or make any changes or action from this meeting from our board. So basically we've got a lot of the public that are here that have been waiting to speak. I think we can wrap up our discussion and then move to the public comment and then after we have public comment we need to probably go through and make a list of items that we want to approve as a board cap committee and then we can then take um michelle can take for her report to town council and kind of go that way does that make sense yes okay all right we're going to um move to public comment is there anybody that would like to get up and talk your name

Bob come on when you come up, please state your name clearly for the record and you'll have three minutes Sure, my name is Bob Barton.

I've lived here almost 13 years now Look first. I think they've done some great work. It's beautiful design I think the work that you're doing up here as a committee is great what gives me an enormous amount of heartburn is I feel like we're talking about a black hole and And we're talking about a black hole that when you have to make those recommendations to the town council to act. We saw a presentation a week ago of what the proposed budget would be and what the new millage rate would be. And it showed an $800,000 deficit relative to Bay Oaks of which 90% of it was the pool. And I'm sitting here after what I just heard saying we have no idea if it's $800,000 or if it's a million six. So my concern is, and I've built a lot of buildings in my professional career, my concern is that I'm not suggesting for one minute any of this work should stop and we should be thinking about what's right and what's wrong. but there's no way that this committee can make a recommendation to the board to put a number into the budget and go forward anticipating revenue collections and what the costs will be for the 2026 2027 budget because you're in the city the town is in a situation where they don't know we just heard from the designers there's been no information given to the town council on how do you budget for resurfacing and when that's going to come into play how long those pumps are going to last how long those filters are going to last if none of these numbers are projected and accounted for on an annual basis we're setting the town up for failure and a black hole i'm not suggesting the project should be killed that's not my objective here my objective here is saying we've got to slam on the brakes before the town council gets to a position where they're saying this is the budget i'm approving for 26 and 27 and look at the work what i've done when all of a sudden the potential here is six months down the road to say we forgot this they didn't account for this these expenses weren't included We don't even have a contractor who has provided us a guarantee that says, I'm taking on the liability insurance during construction to make sure there's no exposure to the town to sit back and say, I bid the project at 4.3. What happens on cost overruns? We don't have a situation where we've sat back and said, here's the date you're going to deliver the pool by, which I don't see how it can be completed with what we just heard from the towns folks about first going out to bid, that this is going to be done in the next 12 months. And that's no one's fault. Please don't misunderstand me. But this has just got to come out of the 2027 budget and say, here's the work we're going to do. We're continuing to move forward. And I think it's this committee's responsibility to make that recommendation to the town. We'll continue to do the work, but if anyone's anticipating revenue in 26-27 from an open pool, I just think that's completely unrealistic. We don't even know what the ultimate costs are going to be. So, thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Hi, Barbara.

Hello Madam Chair. We miss you. Good afternoon everyone. It's great to be on this side of the building than over on the other side being a member of your Bay Oaks committee. So, I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE ISSUE OF THE BUDGET OF THE 4.7 CONSTRUCTION OF THIS POOL. THE POOL DESIGN IN GENERAL I THOUGHT WAS GOOD IN THE EVENT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE OVERALL PROGRAMS THAT WE CAN DEVELOP WITH THIS POOL ONCE IT'S FINISHED. WE WANT THE SWIM PROGRAMS TO the pool aerobics classes to happen. We want our summer camp kids back in that pool. We want those school buses coming into our parking lot so that these kids can enjoy that pool. This pool has been used by many people over the years. And actually, it is to promote the development of group and individual health, fitness, and personal advancement. And that comes from your BORCAB ordinance that was passed in 2009. Just want to make sure that you all know, as BORCAB members, that is your charge, that is the mission. And the mission of Bay Oaks is to one of the success standards is programs to promote health and well-being of all residents of all ages, young and old. So with that, looking at the budget and looking at what's included according to the opulent design group and what's not included is I think the elephant in the room. And I think you all have asked many good questions from the design team and also from our staff. And we've already heard from one gentleman who I thought spoke very eloquently about the reality of what it is that we need to address. And so it seems to me, and I'm just writing down, that this $4.7 million so far should be including the design fees the engineering fees, the construction and the equipment, and that includes the pool heater and the filters and the electrical and the lighting. I haven't heard anything about the lighting. I haven't heard anything about the sound system, which is also... The pool furniture, I understand, is not included. How much will that be? One of the things that I loved about what John presented is the need for these swim blocks, the starting blocks, to be replaced. We had them before. We want them back. We've got our swim lanes. We're going to get them back. That's great. What about bleachers for any swim meets that we're going to have? Is there a portable bleacher system that can be rolled in and out when we have these competitions? I also want to know where Friends of Bay Oak stands in this. I'm eager to hear what Friends thinks about this pool. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Anybody else?

Hi, my name is Pam Moore. I've lived on this island for 16 years, almost. And I will say this is my second meeting in front of the town hall and my first time speaking. I love our pool. Went to it all the time. What I'm seeing now, thank you for your design, by the way. It's absolutely gorgeous, but it's not a resort. It should be what it used to be to a certain degree. We understand things have to be done. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, or used to be. And what I'm seeing happening is what I haven't seen. I haven't heard anything or seen pictures of the current status of our pool. I'm sure you all have probably walked it. I hope you have and been through it. I haven't heard anything about our showers, our buildings, our walls. I'm sure that the concrete has come up. I know from having had a pool what damage was done to it. Thank you, John, for that. That was a good thing you said about it. And all that stuff has to be torn up. And for somebody to tell me that that beautiful big pool hasn't been damaged from all the sand and the weight that went into it, tells me that something's gotta happen. And I would love to see our pool come back, but I think some engineering work really truly has to be done beyond just this beautiful design. You really need to find out what's happening underneath, what damage was done underneath of it. Everything around that concrete, the walls, everything should all be looked at really big time because that's gonna cost you. And if he's just talking this amount of money just to do resurfacing and doing some things around the edges and all the pretty stuff, your pool will last. It will not last. So I'm for the pool. I just want the process to be somebody tell me, show me pictures that you've gone in and done the engineering work before you go out and get a design. You need that before you can say, this is how we should design it. Okay? I had my say. Thank you.

Thank you, and you did great. There's a, I'm going to push back over to opulent, because one of the, it's come up a couple times. In the design, have you included the work that needs to be done inside of the facilities, i.e., the showers, the locker rooms? Is that included, or is that just a shell, and that still has to be worked on?

Yeah, so my request to the town where I started the design was, can I please make recommendations to things like the showers and building and the equipment itself to you guys within the design? But it was not in our scope.

So that's not part of the 4.3. That's just, you just put, it's one of the extra items. All right. And just to qualify, there was a couple good points. Is lighting included in the design?

I have asked the town.

You're breaking up again. So lighting and sound is not included.

Lighting, I have requested clarification of whether there will be night swimming and whether a lighting engineer needs to be brought in to do that and make sure that it accommodates the correct lighting for the area for night swimming. But here's the thing, you could go with no lights if you guys aren't doing that. So it's a big thing and I need to know.

Okay, and then I'm gonna throw the big elephant right out. In your opinion, why are we doing the design before we're doing the engineering? So the feasibility study of whether or not the pool is shot on the bottom should be done after the design?

So at any point, you guys can request. What I then requested the design is to deem whether or not we could potentially work with the structure. So what I deem is that a pool there would be more cost-effective. The existing pool does not have any high pocket. It does not have any major structural cracks with stripping the interior finish. Once we strip the interior finish, it could expose things that I don't know. And so there are certain things. How much work does the town want to put into the existing pool shell to identify all its issues prior to the start of the work? Some of these things are never discovered in the public situation of the start of the work. There's no passive way to do it. Unless you want to go to the expense of gunning the entire finish off the pool before the start

So we've all this group here's walked the pool. I'm sure many of them walked by I'm gonna ask you you you have pool experience Do you think it's a pretty good guess that it shot? I? And that the design we have to put forward would have to back up and have to be rebuilt?

You're asking me?

Yes.

There's a number of factors that play into it. Again, that's not my expertise to go in and say that. I don't employ people. So, yes, but right now we're coming in to ask people. if I think that's a bad idea, absolutely not.

So in the scope of work or what will happen no matter what is that a portion of that pool, the walls and that sort of thing will be removed to be resurfaced and at that point other tests will be done to see if there's additional cost. Wouldn't it make more sense to do that first and then find out what we're up against in terms of a budget?

And we right now can only, so I bet, yep, we're on discussion. Okay, I'm going to go back. Do we have, I think we're through. Do we have any more public comment?

Come on, Howie.

Howie.

Hi, my name's Howie Hoffman. I've lived on the beach 28 years. I used to go to the pool every day. It was a special place for the community. You got to get it fixed. They got to dig out the bottom, see how much money this is going to cost. You're telling us the town's broke. Where's that FEMA money? Where's the money that we're going to have to pay for the pool? I want the pool back. I love the pool. It was my country club. But where's the money going to come from? Let's dig up that hole and fix it.

Thank you, Holly. All right. With that, I am going to close public comment. All right. We've got this. The second thing is the four new additional pickleball courts. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, we could go ahead. Thank you very much for your time today. You, again, we are just, this was strictly discussion. All direction will come from town at a later date, but we appreciate you joining us today. Thank you.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Have a fantastic day.

Thank you. Can I get a question? Are we going to discuss this further later?

Yes. Okay. I just have to follow the agenda. So this would be the last piece of old business would be the four new pickleball courts. The update on that is that actually, Neil, you want to give an update?

Sure, I can give an update. Let's see.

Madam Chair, for the record, are we on the all business under item B?

Yes, I'm doing item B because we just finished the opulent design review.

And I didn't know if anyone that's online had any comments or questions. We didn't.

Oh, geez, Annie, I am so sorry. We did not get you for the questions for opulent.

That is perfectly fine. Other people asked them and They were answered to the best of their abilities at the time. My only question would be, yeah, the other slide. It was not the prettiest thing in the world, right? Is there a way to have a better looking slide that's not a waterfall, not a throttle, not anything that we can turn on and off? That's something we can figure out later on. I'm not too worried about it right now. We've got bigger fish to fry.

Thank you. And again, my apology. All right, Neil, can we just get a brief update on the . Okay, sure.

So I've just had some discussions with leadership here and, you know, basically we were after the last council meeting just basically to kind of do some research and figure out pricing. So that's what I've been working on. So just these are rough estimates. I don't want to be held to an exact number, but just to do another four courts, there's going to have to be stormwater review, just the feasibility looking at that multi-use field. But you're looking at, for that kind of research, it could be as much as up to about $70,000 for permitting, stormwater, engineering, review. For asphalt that you're going to have to put down before you do any kind of surfacing of the courts or fencing, you're looking at probably $20,000 to $25,000. And then the actual court surfacing and then the fencing itself. um to do four courts and these would be side by side um as opposed to like one after the other like the four that we have now uh you're looking at probably around 70 000 set to 75 000 for that great thank you so the process no for the all yeah it's all four total thank you you're welcome So you're looking at about... It would be about, at the most, I would hope, about 165,000 to 170,000. My math is right?

Great. So the process followed here is that will be, correct me if I'm wrong, Neil, that will be or maybe has been given to the Friends of Bay Oaks. And then the Friends of Bay Oaks, it has the funding. They approve it. They give the approval back to the town. The town proceeds with the work. They give the invoices back to the Friends of Bay Oaks, and they pay them.

So obviously, it would still have to go out to bid, and there would be, because of the amount of the project, and we wouldn't really want to do it all in separate charges. It's the whole project as a whole for the bidding process. So we would still have to go through that process, even if it came as a donation to the town. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, so that's kind of where we're at right now. I did reach out to Dawn with friends just to kind of give her those figures as well. But that's just so if it's coming in as a donation, they have a better idea of what those costs could be as far as what they want to donate to have that project done.

That's great news. It's moving forward. Pickleball courts, paid for by friends. Any other questions regarding that? All right. We're going to go on to the new business from last time. The first one is the parking in the multi-use field. Neil, you want to give a little insight on this, please?

sure uh i know joy you brought that up um as part of like for when we have events um being able to use that as additional parking um and also you know fundraising for some of our community groups um unfortunately we we have that sidewalk that goes all the way around that field so it just isn't ideal because any vehicles the weight of those vehicles driving over that sidewalk potentially gonna damage especially having big events and lots and lots of vehicles going over there maybe at one time it might not be an issue but you know just hundreds of cars driving over that sidewalk that's not gonna be good we're gonna definitely have damage to the sidewalk and just the liability of the the condition of that field right now it's not grass it's not graded it's just there's still you know it's just a very barren kind of weeded field it's just wouldn't make sense to do that and we don't want to you know do that and then damage the sidewalk and then any liability that comes with having people just park up on a field like that

Thank you, Neil. However, I did notice that at the end there is a ramp that's just gravel at the very end. And right now the Women's Club is parking on an open lot, the EIBC lot, and we've managed to clear the lot well and avoid location. So I hear what you're saying. I hear that you don't want to do it. However, I guess I'm gonna disagree. I think it's still a viable option for something that's just wide open space. But if it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen.

Rebecca, could you maybe do a follow-up? Just based on my understanding is that area is designated strictly as a multi-use field. So my assumption is this may be an insurance liability also, because that's not considered parking.

I can't answer that question right now. And I think there are some things with that field that are still a little up in the air, part of the investigation. So I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep this on the agenda and go on the back burner. I'm not sure that all the options have been thought about. So if that's okay with you, Madam Chair, I would say keep it on the agenda. And as we start to learn more about what's happening with the audit, possible options, that we just don't get rid of it. Agreed.

Yeah.

It may just not be in the budget for this year, but you never know what could change. The friends may help. Let's just leave it there.

All right. We'll leave it there as we continue to learn what's going to happen in the multi-use field. All right. Second item, the hurricane reentry and sales of parking passes at Bay Oaks. The purpose of this is to get people into Bay Oaks in their awareness. This is something that Sanibel does. We discussed it in the last meeting. Neil, can I get your thoughts on this?

Sure. So if you remember when we didn't have the first floor town hall open yet, we did have some of the staff over there and they were selling the re-entry, or I shouldn't say the re-entry, those are free, but the beach parking passes and then the re-entry passes. In the sense of getting more people in at Bay Oaks, because that's what I know everybody here is, we have people that, It's difficult with our location. You don't see the rec center or the park really from Estero Boulevard. So using it as a means to get more people into Bay Oaks and then have more memberships and just get more people out to our park, I think it's a great idea. But it would also constitute an operational change there with the staff. And so is that something that the current staff would do there? And then my whole thing is when that was only about a few months, and then I think in September around this time last year, the staff came back over and the first floor opened. They moved all those items over here. Are we going to get to see some revenue from that? Is that going to go to the parks and rec revenue on those sales for the beach parking passes? Are we going to be able to show that in our revenue stream? I don't know. That would probably be a finance decision, not really up to me. but then it's also it's difficult with the front desk because we have a lot of our members and they have the fobs they come in they scan in and they go that's not an issue but if somebody comes in to do that and then somebody also comes in and they want to do a membership or they're setting up their account for the first time you know there's a process to that and and you don't have enough room for

Let me just interrupt. So I think I just want to qualify. The process I didn't understand would have to be identified. I think there's, one, I get a line that there's a benefit to getting all of these residents into Bay Oaks with something positive. And, for example, new resident moves in, they go over to Bay Oaks, they get my parking pass, they get my hurricane pass. Neil grabs them and says, hey, have you ever been to Bay Oaks? Let me show you a gym in the back. wow, I got another customer. So it's a positive experience. We've all gone in for them. It's a piece of paper. Yeah, administratively. So I think it's more of looking for alignment. Do we think this would be a benefit to get awareness? Because that's something we're always talking about is how we can get awareness. So that's kind of a discussion there. Anything else on that subject? Discussion?

I think it's also win-win for the residents to be able to have something in that location as well, not having to come to the south end if you're coming from the north end and vice versa. So it's just a benefit in so many different ways. Thank you.

All right. Annual training for advisory committee members. Lizette?

Sure, we just wanted to provide all of you the information so you can do a save the date. It is the annual training regarding public records, Sunshine Laws, all that wonderful, fun, and very exciting topic. It is not mandatory, but it is highly recommended. Our town attorney is going to be facilitating the information along with our town clerk, and we'd love for all of you to join. That's October 6th. What time?

What's the date?

October 6th. Afternoon, I think it's 2 o'clock. It was included in your agenda packet online. October 6th. But if you give me just a second, I'll get to the time.

It's the last page of your packet. Or the one that was originally sent to everybody here. Lizette, can you confirm, is this strictly sunshine training, or is this going to include the training of the new process that the advisory committees are supposed to be following?

So we can certainly incorporate both. The Sunshine Training is at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. We're allowing about an hour and a half for that. The manual is already available online, and we can probably include a Q&A. I'm open to the recommendations.

Well, I think I was, I'm going to call it the guinea pig two months ago when you said that we were going to adjust the process flow. So I think it was presented to me, but I don't know that the other council members would have been. But I would also say we probably would not want to do any training because we have committee members that are up and we need to find out who's going to be on the committee. So I don't think we would even want that at the October meeting because they would not be in place yet.

Yeah, that actually brings me to the next topic. Town Council will have the opportunity to appoint new committee members at their first October meeting, which is the day before, on October 5th. And also your October meeting will have the reorg as part of your agenda. That will be for the selection of chair and vice chair for the upcoming committee year.

Okay, so that will be the next October meeting.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, thank you. All right, with that, let's go on to committee member items. Beth, you want to start?

I don't have any at this time.

All right. John?

A question of point of order. We're coming back to . . .

Yes, the new process is that we have to go through the committee member items, and then when we come back for item for next month's agenda is when we all agree upon what will go to town council. That's where I was saying that there's a new process that I'm having to follow from the town. So that's where it'll come, John, underneath the next item. So if there's anything else that we believe that wants to be brought up for discussion from committee member items that potentially we could all agree upon to bring then to town council, this is the time each member brings those issues up. We specifically did the pool as one big one because of the request from the public.

Right. It's more of a story than a question or a report. I went over to Bay Oaks early today because as people know or don't know, I travel here to these meetings because I am a property owner and I am an in-between house owner. We haven't rebuilt yet, so I'm traveling to the meetings. And so I don't get to do the thing that I want to do all the time, and that's wake up and go to Bay Oaks. And I got to do that today. And it was probably one of the most welcoming experiences that I have experienced in a long time. And I don't just mean here. I mean anywhere in a long time. As a swim coach that makes fun of pickleball, I will go on the record. I do that. I'm owning that. I was a little afraid to walk over to the very busy pickleball courts this morning. So I sat in my rental car for a second contemplating whether I was going to do that or not. And as I got out of the car and I walked over, laser beams started looking at who's this guy. He's not dressed for pickleball. He must be a suit. That's what I felt until I got about 25 yards from the pickleball courts. And everybody just started saying, hey, good morning. Are you here to play? You got the wrong shoes on. What are you doing? And it was just the best. It was absolutely the best feeling. I took the opportunity when I engaged with some people to talk about the pool. And I talked about the pool, and I talked about what's coming, and didn't give away anything, because there's nothing to give away right now. And I kept doing that for about 20 or 30 minutes, and I was abruptly halted when Joy came to play pickleball. So I was legally obligated to not talk to anybody anymore about the pool. So that got hit pretty hard. And then I went inside. to track down Neil, just to say hello, and was welcomed by the Bay Oak staff to a level that just blew me away. And so if anybody is still watching this, you've gotta make it a part of your day, because you're gonna be a part of the family when you walk on that property. It was pretty cool. That's my report.

That's awesome. And another reason, going back to now if we could get all the other people that have never been to Bay Oaks over there. So thank you, John. And I did get phone calls, and they were pretty excited that you were there this morning, so thanks for doing that. Joy?

I really don't have anything further. I really like John's picture. And so when we get to that point where we're talking about recommendations to town council, I really think that that makes a lot of sense.

I have nothing.

I have one question. Go ahead. It's for Neil. Neil, you said earlier with Halloween and volunteers that they would undergo a background check. So my question is, if you're already a volunteer, say, for example, at the Mound House, you've already undergone that background check, would they have to have another background check?

I think they're good for up to a year. So I just would have to make sure with HR that that's OK. And if not, we can simply just have them fill out a new form and do that. But everything's going through HR as far as once they fill out the form, they go to HR and they do all the background stuff.

OK. I just think it's important for volunteers to know it's transferable. Make it easier.

Great, thank you. I would, underneath the topics for discussion at the next meeting, like to review the budget if it's locked in. And then also, Yes, I will, yeah. I would also like to see the revenue, we should be able to see, I don't know if it's total, but the revenue from last year by category, and starting to review where we're at, the financials on a monthly basis at these meetings. And then we had also included the membership, where we're at with memberships. So that'll be my items, and Annie?

A couple of things. One, I haven't seen John's picture yet. I'm looking forward to it. But I think my question is just with the grant funding being the way it is, I'm not sure we can make major changes. I think we have to stick with what was already there. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. And also, it's related to the multi-use field.

I think right now it is just kind of a ground field, right?

And I know that we're going to eventually someday have the lawn and the irrigation and it's going to be beautiful again. Has it been considered to use gray water for that multi-use field and make it more sustainable instead of using fresh water for it?

Great points.

Oh, and I will be starting back on 7th, Wednesday morning, 9 a.m. with those classes, so come join.

All right, with that, now the process is we are going to bring together the items that we want on the agenda for next month. That also includes what we will bring out of each of those items. We will then agree upon what we're gonna bring to town council. So starting off, we've already talked about the reviewing of the budgets and the revenue for the next meeting. We decided to keep on the parking passes and the reentry and the multi-use field. And I think we're going to extend the multi-use field to the grass portion of what's going to happen with that. Annie, I agree with you. What are we going to do with that? I will tell you from, and Joy will be with me, as a pickler, we're up there every day. I would not recommend driving up there right now. There's some pretty big boulders up there. There's now getting to be a lot of holes up there. There's water settling all over. It does need some work up there. I mean, our hope is that we can get back to the sod. So let's just keep that multi-use field on the radar, I think, for the BORCAB, if everybody would agree. Agreed. And then any other non-pool items that we want to keep on the agenda? Because otherwise we're going to try to go into the pool. Are there any other non-items? Okay. The pool, I'm just going to throw out that I just believe that we need to look at the engineering before we even move forward with anything on this pool.

I think the order, though, that was described is correct. I agree with what you're saying because they can't engineer what hasn't been drawn for them. I think that may be, this is an out of line statement, maybe the only thing actually in order is the design goes first so we gotta get through this so that they can take that design to engineering to say you're crazy or let's go. So I understand what you're saying because we absolutely need to find out what's under the surface. But we have to tell them what we want at the surface first, you know.

So, John, again, the engineering part of it, are they going to remove the walls? How are they going to find out what's underneath?

You just take the plaster off. Got to go to the experts out there from the town. It's its own process.

There's a certain amount of plaster on the outside of the gun. You have to remove the plaster in order to see what's below on the gunite. If the gunite has cracks or pieces that need to be repaired, then they'll be able to figure that. But in order to get to that stage, you have to remove all the gunite first, and then you can see what the pool shell is actually the shape of it is in.

There are some modern, very expensive methods to look through different materials, but I don't think those are in our scope. So the traditional thing would be you got to basically scrape the plaster, see if there's cracking.

Again, because we're looking for a motion here. Is the motion to request of town council to get that engineering work done? No. No? Okay. All right. All right. Then in terms of the design, Lizette, I'm going to need your guidance on this because So just for the record, whenever you bring documents of this sort in, they're supposed to be sent in prior to the agenda being sent out to the public. The purpose of this meeting was to get public input, and we've got a lot of people watching from the outside, and then we've had people here attend. We were able to give them copies. But then we also have town council has also not seen this. Neither has opulent. So if I put a recommendation, nobody has seen this from the outside. Lizette, how do I handle this?

So any documents that are presented by an advisory committee member are to be shared with the rest of the committee and the public. At the conclusion of this meeting, those documents will be made available to the public. They will be attached as part of the online agenda. Council will also have access to this document. That's the entire island.

So you add these documents onto the current agenda that's out there? Yes. It will be a handout. Well, we already have the handout, so you're going to add it to the one that's currently out there?

Yes, it will be electronically added to today's agenda.

All right, so I want the public to know the documents that were handed out by John in today's meeting will be available by tomorrow in the agenda packet, correct? Correct. All right, so I just needed to make sure that the public knew along with town. So now what do we want to put for a recommendation on what John handed out?

If, just a matter of procedure, should I make a motion to accept this, get it seconded, and then discussion, and then it either gets dropped or not? Okay, because we could put this on the screen.

Yes, any one of you can make a motion for a recommendation to town council on the topic at hand. If you get it second, there will be discussion about it and vote it. Yes, absolutely. That's the process.

All right. I just want to make a motion that the first picture in this packet is a... in response to um the design we've been given to go forward to council as a recommendation for uh adjustment to design all right on that motion it's this when you say page one the first page in your presentation john yeah but with the supporting subsequent pages but this Okay. Page one color page would be what is proposing to go forward.

I second.

Can I write this?

Yeah, now it would be discussion.

Well, now it's open for discussion.

Yeah. Do you want me to go through it or do you want to?

No, I'm going to, Jason, can we do this?

We can absolutely do this.

no i'm i'm asking what i wanted some input from purchasing how this would work absolutely yes jason freeman again for the record um it would be something that depending on what the design is we would just make sure that we share it with our grant managers at lee county to make sure that it's all eligible for it so um i think the conceptuals are one thing too but before we go into actual engineering and you know spend the time to to get those plans we would definitely want to get it cleared um through that team so The big thing is just staying in the actual property footprint is very important, which all of that is, but the specifics we would always make sure that we share with them just to get approval for. so you've reviewed this and you believe we stayed within the parameters we would just then not not reviewed it um but i would yeah we if depending on what the direction is from from town council and everybody we can always share that with the team and our grant management partners as well to to confirm so i'm sorry i haven't taken the time to look at it and i'm not entirely sure in compliance with it but we can check into it if that's our direction

So John, this is staying within the current shell then?

Absolutely.

So our recommendation would be to present this to town staff within the current shell with these plans.

Yeah. The main pool is directly from Opulent Design's plan. Great. OK. What's removed is the little mountain structure.

Yeah. All right. So do we have a motion to approve?

I approve that John's recommendation that we take it to town council as a recommendation to modify the design from opulent to remove the waterfall structures and provide the line of sight that John is referring to and use this picture as an example of the changes to the design. Do we have a second?

So you already have a motion on the table, right? We have to close this. Second by Joy. Discussion has been had and it sounds like we're ready for a vote if you're finished with the discussion.

All right, do we have a vote to move forward as Joy stated?

No, there's more in it and we're in discussion because I want to be very clear about everything that appears in this.

So do we have a, we need to finish the first motion or we need to, so we can modify to the way you're speaking about?

You can add other items, but we need, this would be the first item is to present the modifications of the layout to town council. All right, so we have the first item. Do we have a vote? We need a vote to get this approved. All in favor? Aye. motion passes unanimously all right next item that we would like to put john um i mean i'm sorry sorry uh are we not discussing this at all

We just did on that motion.

This one, just this one topic of this layout has been approved. Now we can add other items.

Okay, so there was no discussion. Okay, sorry, I'm trying to follow this and learning it. I would have preferred a little bit more discussion. It's a pretty big motion.

So we can certainly, and I apologize for stepping in, we can certainly go down the line, Madam Chair. As the discussion takes place, you can call on each individual committee member one at a time prior to taking the vote.

Thank you, Lizette. All right, then I'm going to start with Annie. Annie, what are your thoughts on the layout?

I am abstaining from all discussions on the layout because I am abstaining I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING IT BUT I WILL NOT MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS.

COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD. YET WE'RE UNABLE TO GET THAT OUT TO ANYBODY THAT'S REMOTE.

BEV? I THINK THIS IS BRILLIANT. IT'S LIKE VERY GOOD. AND I JUST WANT TO GET get you to remind me why the removal of is it for visual the the waterfalls and that sort of thing or is it just because the feedback we're getting is that we don't want it to be as tropical or is it a manpower thing or is it a combination of all of those things it yeah the answer is yes it's it's a combination and if you and i i am referring to it's a movement of the slide yes

So that's not removal from the project. And that is for the safe line of sight across the facility. Because even as the facility sits now, it's not a safe line of sight with the slide where it is.

And if I understand your presentation, correctly in the event that the slide is easily removable in future if it becomes unattractive and unappealing for whatever reason society doesn't want it the town doesn't want it anymore that sort of thing it's a lot easier to remove as compared to what we currently have what we currently have out there

needs to be scraped.

Right. I understand that. But this whole modular design, the way that you can... Everything about this design, my understanding is that we could get it removed more easily. It wouldn't damage the pool as much. Is that true?

Well, in this, with the slide relocated, it's on hardscape. So it's...

I just want to clarify a few things. It's fine, I stand by the motion and I just wanted to discuss it a little bit more because we are asking for quite a major change in the design when the designer has delivered something.

Yeah, and in doing this, I made light of how I got to this by using AI. I also used hours and hours on the phone with pool professionals on the And I know the discussing that second pool is off the table right now. And it wasn't, or maybe it just was with opulent. I'm not sure because this moves it over to the table.

Why, why is that? I don't think we understood and nobody explained it.

yeah i have i apologize no i can't apologize so i have been directed that conversation that i just had with tracy came in here and i was told that there can be no discussions regarding the new kitty pool it's off the table i know nothing further can the town explain that to us please Yeah, why?

I think I can just make a general statement. There was some different ideas like some just visual plans that were sent over recently and they just have to like go through the town's process and be procured properly before they can Because I just that literally just absolutely zero so well I just it just got sent this morning and I wasn't aware of that process I think that that needs to be explained to us better for the next meeting because that makes zero sense to us Well, and it was a mistake that it was sent out.

So we only meet once a month, right? And we're gonna put this off another month just because there's some process that wasn't followed I'm completely confused and under don't understand that and I think it needs explained Okay

It did not go through the correct town protocol per staff is what I was just told prior to the meeting. So it cannot be discussed further because it's an engineering change.

You know what? I understand that. However, our input has absolutely nothing to do with whatever this thing. So we should be able to provide input aside from that.

because it so i i understand what you're saying i can understand your frustration i cannot comment further rebecca and i were brought in right prior to this meeting that the protocol was not followed by town and we just can't have a discussion on it if you have any further issues i would recommend talking

um leaving an email there's nothing like tying the hands of the people who are supposed to be giving you the information i don't disagree i am just i am just the messenger somebody should have came in here with an explanation from the beginning instead of just telling us what you did so that's my opinion and that's something to go to her in the town with not that's not your fault right but that is the town's fault and that should have been proclaimed that should have sent to us in an email ahead of time before the meeting not during the meeting and not the way it was right so i agree

OK. All right. With that, I'm going to go back to the pool. I still have to go on the record that the purpose of this whole meeting was for the public to have input, and the public has not seen this design. So I want to just try to summarize for the public that's listening John's design, because it's just not fair to the public. that we're standing here looking at a document and from what i understand we've got a lot of people watching it so john if i can try to summarize we're getting rid of the blocking of the the view from one pool to the other is a highlight you've moved that you've moved the pool which would be to this or the slide to the south end so there's no interference in the middle of the two pools correct Is there any other major highlights for the public that's listening right now that should be stated? Not just very specific changes I'm looking for so the public's aware of it.

That's the only move that was made. Okay.

I just need the public to know that because I can tell you what I don't want to happen is we get a, there they are, they're behind the desk looking at items, making decisions. So the key change, and I'm going to hold this up just so in case they can see it.

Well, I provided this to our IT. They should be able to put it on the screen for the meeting.

No, we can't. That's why we went through the process before annoyance was here. You can put it on the screen, but only we will see it, not the public. That's the concern. The public cannot see it.

So this is a technology issue that prevents us from putting it to the public.

No, it's a process issue because any documents that we need to have in discussion in these meetings needs to be sent into staff one week prior to the agenda going public. That's where the documents become available. And that's any advisory meeting, not just here. So the public in this case does not have access to this and cannot until a meeting is over and then the staff will upload and add it to the agenda packet. So again, I have to speak for the public. So I'm just going on the record of what we're looking at here.

Michelle, one point that I do want to make is that the public, as I am a representative of the public, and they told me that they wanted a simpler, cleaner design. In other words, not the rocks and not this resort sort of thing. You know, I feel like that does represent what I'm hearing from the public, just as a point of discussion.

No, it's a very good point. Again, the public isn't seeing, so that's why I wanted to highlight the changes for the public.

Right, I got it.

Okay. um then with that discussion i'm going to bring up the other elephant again is the five feet of the pool is where the current design is at and i heard deeper from you john yes

I WAS COMING IN REMOTELY LAST MEETING AND SO I ACTUALLY VOTED IN FAVOR FOR THE FIVE FEET. BUT IN REALITY I WANTED TO VOTE WITH WHATEVER JOHN WANTED BECAUSE OF YOUR EXPERTISE IN THIS AREA. SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS. I CAN BRIEF THE REASON.

THE REASON IS THAT THE the safe water depth for diving into the pool from starting blocks. And it is not a, pardon the pun, concrete rule. It is a recommendation from all of the swimming governing bodies. I have made a request into USA Swimming, and I've gotten a favorable but not an absolute answer. But if we were to keep that portion of the pool that's at five three, at five three, this pool would get signed off, but going to five it wouldn't for blocks. So I believe, isn't that a little bit of a net savings if we can leave it as is? The rule in competitive swimming is that that depth would carry from the start wall 15 meters out. then your pool can go gradually or step to any depth that you're looking for. And that's where it gets into, you know, the plus for our water exercise is to have that a little bit over five feet a portion for a little more of advanced water exercise. You know, I'm not leaning in and wanna die on the hill of the competitive starts, because that might be one of the least used things. It might be one of the most used things. But if we don't put it in there, we don't get to have it at all and we never get to know. And we disenfranchise the competitive swimmer in the pool that was built for competitive swimming originally.

So if we're at five feet, they can't even practice in there?

You can't dive off the starting blocks. But at the present depth, we would get a basically grandfathered in because that's the way the pool is presently built. And the rule changed while it was at five, three, or five, five, whatever it's at. If we could keep the depth.

Sorry to interrupt. We did vote a fourth five-foot depth based on what was recommended by staff and for lifeguarding numbers and efficiency.

changing that is correct and um that's what we've talked about john's design john design has this pool at five feet three and that's why i put it as a separate topic item and the issue goes back to the lifeguards and the certification it takes a different certification process per our last meeting the discussion with neil so we've got the lifeguard slash the blocks discussion and last time we had voted to keep it at five feet and we will need to make another motion if we are looking to change that back to five three.

I did check on that lifeguard certification and you can get that once a month at FGCU so there is no reason that I can see to go over the other coast for lifeguard training.

but you cannot train, we cannot train in house lifeguards. Is that correct? I have no idea. You have to have a special person.

Yeah, so for deep water, you need to have... over it's really it's like seven feet to be able to perform those rescues properly to be able to do a deep water spinal a deep water uh active rescue and we just i mean i understand it would be nice to have that additional but i mean you can't even perform those rescues you can't even train to do those rescues. So it creates an issue where if we want to have the deep water certification and once you go over five feet, you have to have that. You've got to go somewhere else to get that certification in a pool that's deeper. So it's difficult because anytime you want to hire staff or if somebody leaves, I mean, initially we'd like to have somebody come in and train everybody at the same time. But as staff leaves, staff come back, you're going to have to potentially certify staff, recertify staff every two years when the certifications run out. So it requires you'd have to go to another facility to do that deep water portion.

So I'm going to stay with my original vote. I'm do a motion that we stay at five feet because of the certification for the lifeguards. Do I have a second?

No.

All right. Then we do. We have a motion that we are requesting staff to bring the pool back to five or keep it at five feet, three inches.

I move that we recommend staying at 5.3.

I second that motion.

All in favor?

Aye. Aye. Aye. All right, we need a vote on moving the pool back now to five feet, three inches. Do I have?

That's what we just did.

I'm sorry, motion. So we're good? Yep. All right, we're good on that item. Do we have any other pool or items that we want to? Do we have any other items that we want to bring to town council on the pool?

I do. I do. I think, and I'm interested what you have to say, but my sense from the information that was given today and the questions that we asked was that the public may have seen something that as did we, something that wasn't actually reflective of what was going to be delivered in the numbers. And best of intentions, for sure, but I think going forward it would be very helpful for both us and the public if we could actually see what was going to be delivered for the price, for the quote, or the anticipated cost. Absolutely I want to see the potential, but I want to see the tangible deliverable as well. And I think at the end of the opulent, when we were asking the questions, there were comments like lighting was in scope, swimming at night was never mentioned, there was a lot of things that weren't in scope or even I perceived disgust in terms of the design and inclusion and not included, the buildings being one of them, and what's going to go into those buildings. So I just think we need to better understand what's being asked and what's being delivered. I think there was a lot of confusion today and I wonder if the public didn't feel the same way. If we could make some kind of a recommendation to council that, I mean, is there a list of things that one needs to consider when building a pool and what is it that we're not asking in this. I can't come up with that list. I don't know how to build pools, but that list has to exist somewhere. And also that we see if, you know, oh, 3.7 million now, but it's a concrete shell with you know, with certain finishings, that's what we want to see. Again, some of us aren't experts in pool construction and certainly the public needs to be, to understand better what is going to be delivered for the price that's being paid and what they can anticipate happening over time. we all want to see the finished home but at the end of the day the furniture isn't there when you walk into it and you've got to start from scratch so let's you know um i'd like a better visual and and that list if possible all right let me try to summarize that so our request would be to actually see the renderings with strictly what is budgeted

And in addition to that, we then identify, and I'm just gonna throw out the patio furniture. What are the expenses of all the incremental things that are gonna need to start that pool up? And where is that money gonna come from?

You mean the total cost of the project? Yeah. Isn't that nice?

Yeah.

Correct. Total cost of the project. Total cost of the project. Because you're right. I mean, when you look at the project and what they're bidding on, what happens when they finish that project and now you can't afford to do the showers, now you can't afford to do the- The pools. Right, right. You know what I mean?

We don't have any furniture to sit on.

I mean, we were reported to have 300,000 in Parks and Recreation. I'm not so sure that there is 300,000 in Parks and Recreation anymore. So where does that leave us when we finish this project? if we don't have anything in the bank and we can't finish the project. And now we have a pool that we can swim in, but we can't relax at. So, I mean, it's very important to find out the total cost of the entire project, including the furniture and everything that they've supplied in that picture, because otherwise we could finish this and be stuck with a swimming pool with nothing around it.

All right. Do we have a motion to approve adding that to the agenda?

Madam chair, will you please restate the motion? All right. Motion stated. Okay.

The motion would be to request of town council that we review the pool and I'm going to say renderings or scope as is. and then have a separate understanding of all the auxiliary items, and I'm gonna use examples as pool furniture, interior design of buildings, lights, audio.

Landscape.

Landscaping. What are the budget items for those, budget items for that and where's that money gonna come from? Do I have a motion to approve?

Second. Second?

All right, second. All in favor? Aye.

Aye. So you have, yes, we need discussion.

Do we have any further discussion? Motion passes. All right. I'm just going to throw out lighting. I think we need to keep that one separate because for some reason that keeps falling apart. And I think having lighting in that pool is so critical for night events.

It wasn't just put there for night events. It was put there for security.

Oh, security, everything.

It was put there for security. We never had night events, but there was always lights on the pool, and they were there for security. I mean, what if someone jumps in the pool in the middle of the night?

Correct.

You couldn't even tell if they were in there, and it has happened.

Yeah, and I think we just heard that it's not in the scope of the work that they've requested from town. So I think we need to keep lighting specifically as an independent item. That that is added and is part of the scope of work that's being done initially.

Since it hasn't, this might be the first area that we may be able to do in a pretty streamlined way. in that we look at what is the programming of the facility so that it can be properly bid and lit. Because if it's not gonna be used at night, then there's a base security light. Because if it's gonna be used at night, then you don't just have the big Moscow lights. You have pathway lighting, you have the locker room lighting. It's all different.

Did we ever have night events? I mean, I've only been around 25 years, but I don't ever remember a night event

No, I don't think they have, but I think that in terms of the revenue standpoint moving forward and security and events, I think this is going to be a nice area. Even whether they're coming in and doing a swimming event and it's a little dark, I hear it on the baseball field, your biggest complaint right now is you've got to shut down when it's dark. Well, why should we lose the opportunity for the pool because it's not lit?

Yeah.

so and we all know if you're going to put lighting in let's do it while it's at its shell and then just as you're you know extending it further so what is the lighting plan for the pool would be my motion to add as a specific item that we want to understand

I think that goes along with all the stuff that you just talked about to, you know, the showers or the concessions, the furniture and all that. That's all like you say, it's all part of the package, but we haven't seen. That included in the package, so, and that would concern me because you could look at, we don't know if it's going to be 100 grand or 500 grand, you know, so.

Okay, so do we want to keep the lights underneath the original motion or we want to separate? What's the discussion there?

I think it's already covered.

Okay. All right. Do we have any other items that we want to add? Nope.

I'm not sure that I want to add it to the motion, but I do think I want to point out Barbara Hill's comment that we do want to perhaps hear from Friends of Bay Oaks next meeting on some of this or have a meeting with them.

We will request that Friends of Bay Oaks start attending. There's been a change and I'm sure they will attend the next meeting. All right. With that, the next meeting will be held October 21st, which will include our training, as we discussed.

I need to ask for an excuse. I cannot attend.

All right. I believe, just for the process, you have to put a written request into staff. and then we have to actually approve it at the meeting. I'm sorry?

That's fine, if you send an email to our town clerk, Ms. Baker.

Yeah, if you're unable to attend for an excused absence, you send it in to Amy directly as an email, and then it comes back on our agenda when we arrive. All right, do we have a motion to adjourn?

So moved. I second it.

Meeting is adjourned at 2.16 p.m. Thank you.