Open Space Committee - Regular Meeting

I wanted to mention there. There it is. It just said the meeting's being recorded. The other thing I wanted to mention was I spoke with cable 8 and since our meetings are held on a regular basis, um they'd be very interested in recording our meetings as well.

I don't have an issue with that. Does anybody else does that mean we have to dress better? No, I don't think so. So, Jane, does um from a matter of process, would Cable 8 handle all the recordation or would it be a combination of the Zoom record and their record for a logistical standpoint?

I don't know. I I I have no idea. I spoke with the woman at the CPC meeting and she had said um uh she was talking about attorney general bylaws and things like that which was way over my head as far as what she has to submit. I guess she has 48 hours from the time she records something but I don't really know if it's a matter of either or but she did say that there's a capability by the host to record the meetings as well. So, for now, I think that would be the best process.

I think it would be great to record the meetings and have minutes posted to the web page. I noticed I don't think there's like a video recording available for any committee except the select board. So, were you thinking that these recordings would be made public on the website? Yes. Yep. Are any other committees talking about doing that? Um, I don't I don't know. I know I think there's a through cable 8 that you can see them. I'm not sure. Daryl might know better about that. Um, yeah. I've never heard the meeting being recorded. Yeah. Um,

we do minutes. Yeah. The concom minutes I The Hong Kong meetings are available on the cable 8 website. I know that. as are the board of selectman meetings. I'm not sure what other committees actually are still doing Zoom. Most committees I know are meet in person, so they take live minutes.

Okay. Well, the select board isn't meeting in person.

Yeah, they're the only other ones to my knowledge. I mean, I don't know of all the other committees, but the committees the other committees I'm on meet in person, right? I'm going to look at the template because I know when I did them, it had it had that checked as a default. So, I'm a little surprised that it's not shown there. I remember seeing that when I set it up because when you set the template up, it gives you a whole bunch of variables and some of them were already checked off and that was I remember one of the ones. I'll have to look and see cuz the only thing I changed from prior years is I used to have to let people in

and I thought that was kind of a pain. Um, so I just make it open. If you have the password, you can just log in. And I turn this thing on at like 7:15. So if somebody wants to log in early and just, you know, have it sitting there. So that's the only change I've made, but I'll look at it. I don't trust myself to look at it here. It'll probably blow the meeting up. So all right. So um so the first uh item is uh the uh open space plan section 9 subcommittee. Daryl, Jane, and Lauren. Um thank you guys for getting that done. That's a great accomplishment. We got another five years. So, and uh before we have to do that again. And uh

I can't believe the state turned it around in was it was like two hours if it was an hour and a half or something. She got it at like noon and the letter came out I think it was before 2 o'clock. Oh, that was wow. So, but great great job you guys and Jane, thanks for helping coordinate with uh the recreation people to make sure because that was half the half the stuff.

Yeah, you're welcome. So, so that's a big action item that's uh been hanging over us for a few uh months here. So, uh the next one uh does anybody have any other comments or questions about the uh the open space plan? Uh the only thing I would like to just say is going through that though I I could see that that uh that it's easy to ignore some of the goals and and targets and uh so I'm making up a table maybe uh that I'll I'll pass around eventually uh perhaps before the next meeting just uh highlighting some of the the things at least from the um the standpoint of open space the tables uh 1 through 4 OS S 1 through 4. Okay. And maybe we should uh maybe take a few minutes of each meeting and go through them and you know and just talk about you know what what the first or next steps would be.

Yeah. in each of those because like you say it's easy to it's in a book sitting there somewhere and it's barely Yeah, accountability isn't uh high on the list uh for some of that.

Yeah, I know. That's uh I know I can remember project management tools that were automated and you'd get these email messages saying you have a task that is due tomorrow in 16 hours or something like that. You know it was horrible. Now, Daryl, since we have time before the next update is um required, I can't remember last time, did we apply for a grant or receive funding in some way uh to help uh round out the plan? I'm just thinking that we have obviously we don't need it tomorrow, but I'm just thinking, are there any grants you should keep on the horizon that we might want to apply for over the next two, three years?

That I'm not sure of. in the past. Uh we worked on it from 2010 to like 2018 and um the the commission the open space committee did and uh uh Doug Randall spearheaded a lot of that and uh we had it almost there. we took it in and we had a like a raft of 20 questions or comments from uh DCR at that time and uh that's when we're like kind of not threw up our hands but said gez we need to get somebody who's done this part of it before because there was some new parts and uh that's when we hired Gino Carluchi at the because we'd done most of the work he was able to um basic give us a bargain basement uh price of 16,000 we got 8,000 from the CPC and 8,000 from the um sweat fund. But uh I think in you know for 20 the open space plan 2030 we'll probably have to start looking at that in three years 2028 and uh maybe start lining up just to get all the the goals have our public meetings uh get the public input and uh and make sure we tidy up everything that needs to be done and uh um so couple years ought to do that and maybe we should look at um some sort of grant or something like that. Right now, I'm not aware of anything other than what we used last time.

But I think Dave was alluding to what grants we should be looking at to apply for for the state. Was that what you're talking about, Dave? Or you were just talking somewhat of an open ended question. I have no idea. I don't I'm not aware of any that exist. I I just couldn't remember if we tapped into any the first time, but you know, I'm sure we could probably do a little bit of poking around on websites. I'm sure Rachel as a town planner would might have some leads as well. But I was just thinking if if there are grants and we have time and that's kind of to our our advantage um over the next couple years, knowing that inevitably there'll be probably some modernizations that we'll want to do. There'll be probably new sections that we'll have to tackle and you know might be beyond the capacity of this group and others. So I mean the only two I know of that that directly would impact us here is is Parkland grant and then uh I can't remember the name of the other one. It's it's in that presentation we did for um the uh land acquisition fund. Um, and it's towards purchasing land or turning. Uh, and there's another one, maybe Jane knows about this one. There is one about um using it for active andor passive recreation, converting uh town land or newly acquired land. I'll look them up and I'll send them to everybody. Yeah, the the park the park grant and the land grant are both under the same umbrella, but they're two separate grants, I believe. Yeah.

Um those are the primary ones that I'm aware of, but I'm sure there's like a lot of grants out there. Um so many of them are geared towards urban areas that we're kind of like not even eligible to apply for them. But there's a ton of grants out there and especially now that um realistically we won't have the MBTA situation hanging over us because you know we lost the lawsuits. So you know that will probably go through. I think we would be eligible for anything that will we meet the requirements. Everyone was afraid that that would impede us from um being eligible to apply for certain grants, but now we can. Um so I think anything that's out there, there's lots of websites that we can look at um that may help us going forward. But what does that mean for Does that mean we have to convert that uh piece of land into that type of zoning or is it because we lost the lawsuit? I wasn't aware of that.

Oh, um there's we changed one of one of the grants, one of the um zones is still the same as the planning board suggested. The second one was originally on East Street and um through a lot of community involvement, the planning board changed that and now we're using the Ledge View already built apartment buildings as the second location to get us up to the 50 acres of eligibility. So, um I don't know when the final vote has to happen, but I believe at this point, um the board of selectman has exhausted all the resources they had to fight it. And um although there is one more thing that I heard about, but I I'm not completely up to date on it. There is one more thing where I believe there's some uh representation at the state house that's trying to rule the whole thing. Um I don't know if it's unconstitutional or I I don't I don't know enough about it, but it's possible that the whole MBTA thing could get thrown out at some point, but we are in compliance at this point. we have our two zones. So, I don't think that um will have any bearing on any grants that we apply for going forward.

Okay. Right. And where are those apartments? Are those the ones on um on 1A near the mall? No. No. Right across from Target. Is that not Target? Right at the end of um uh what's Madison Street? Yeah. Madison. Yeah. Route one. Right at the corner of Madison or Route One. Yeah. But it's existing apartments that are sitting there.

Yeah. They were built I don't I don't know how many years ago, but um yeah, originally the planning board wasn't sure if they could include them because there's a lot of section 8 housing within those that apartment building. uh but they found out that they can. So it's um one less thing we have to worry about because it's already there.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And um the land uh the next item I had was the land scoring committee. Um, so since Dave's the only person here who have knows it, um, did, um, what's his name? Uh, Greg tell us that he could load our finished scores there or is that something we can do on the website? cuz I know the way the way the way I understood it was they didn't they weren't comfortable letting us use the town website as our workspace but we could put our results there. Is that correct?

That vaguely sounds familiar. I mean, I don't want to speak for Sean who's been kind of spearheading the the uh the subcommittee, but um I know trying to figure out the best IT solution to post scores to have a workspace are all still, I think, undetermined. Um but the three of us have been kind of working through the properties providing the uh evaluations. Um you know, I think between the the Excel spreadsheet that we have, it really standardizes the approach and scoring. I think it's it does a really nice job of uh you know tracking. Um so at some point I think we'll probably you know when when we're all back together again we can kind of talk about what we've done to date, how many properties that we've done. We've done quite a few at this point that you know um so where we want to go with that but also just some general observations on scoring you know like you know one that I that I saw is you know there's the question about the regularity of the lot right so there's the acreage of a lot and that's pretty black and white is it 10 acres is it 20 acres it's pretty defined but then there's the regularity like the length and the width and um you know to some degree that measurement um has a little bit of subjectivity to in terms of where does some where does one measure from point A to point B to get the distance and so we might want to talk about you know um you know making sure that we're doing it accurately and repeatedly but at the end of the day things like acreage and the other spatial layers like you know um is it in a wellhead area is it in biomap is other vertal pools in the property that's pretty standard like no matter what that's essentially automated you know and we're just kind of filling in the the yes no answers but Yeah, moving right along. I know that Sean's been traveling a bit, but I think uh we'll make it a point to check in prior to the next meeting to have a more formal presentation on where we're at.

Yeah, because I think once we start loading scores on there, we'll stop hearing from people saying, "What are the scores?" Yeah, I do think Yeah, I do think when we do decide to post scores, we're going to want to create the context of a score because, you know, you think, oh, a score of 100 is a perfect score, which which obviously it would be naturally, but you know, there's nuance, right? And the nuance, you know, I would hate to have a situation where,

you know, an opportunity is before us and it's not a perfect score yet there's a way to make it happen. I think it really gives us a a a pulse on what the what the potential significance of that property is. And then as a group, as a committee, probably worth saying, okay, we have these scores. If an opportunity comes up, we as a committee re-evaluate it together to make sure we're all comfortable with it so we can communicate out

the the positives, the opportunities, the concerns, whatever it might be in in in one voice. So, I mean, yeah, one of the things I always thought was the the hidden value, if you want to call it, or the real value to us was once we scored all these properties, the ones that really aren't suitable, we just push them aside and then it would, you know, cause a lot less work for us and everybody involved cuz we know how much work was involved. in getting that uh you know that purchase done.

Absolutely. Cool. Great. Um anything else on that one? Nothing on my end.

All right. I'm gonna Wait one second here. Can I find this? Oh, here it is. Okay, so I'm going to forward this to everyone. I thought Michael had copied everyone on it, but he didn't. Um so 2095 um West Street, the owners, the sellers have asked for at least 30 more days. So they want to postpone the October 16th closing date into November. But it says by at least 30 days. And it says, I mean, you guys will get this, but it says, "The sellers need additional time to resolve a title issue after recently disclosing a family member with a previously unknown potential interest in the property. Further research is required to ensure insurable title." So, that sounds pretty serious.

Yeah. So, um I'm I'm gathering there was a family member who was probably a part owner and they forgot about them.

I was curious besides um you know the RenaM legal council, do the other parties now that have a financial interest in it, you know, Pucket Watershed and the DCR, do they do they have a legal team that helps us out in resolving all this? So, um I would assume they do. Uh actually I have I'll give you some more of his update here. So he gives an update on DCR. Um says DCR is prepared to provide the funding this fiscal year contingent on recording a conservation restriction. And then there was a waiver to bypass the standard 120day. notice period is also on Tuesday's agenda. That's at the selectman's meeting. They have to approve that. DCR has been cooperative and the funds are already earmarked in their FY26 budget. So, we're going to get the money. It's just we have to close. And then they they are named as co-holder of the conservation restriction which when I read the next section you'll understand. So, Pucket Water Supply is meeting an executive session on October 14th to consider waving their right of first refusal requirement and instead becoming a co-holder of this conservation restriction with the Department of Conservation and Recreation. this would streamline their 650k contribution has expressed initial support of this proposal and is contact with our town council. So they're basically negotiating to not require that right of first refusal cuz if they

hold the CR that's as powerful or more so and so on this extension I didn't send did did Mike tell you anything more Daryl about No just what was in that email just yeah because I mean That's Yeah, I mean that's what to me that's what it it sounds like that there was somebody who was listed as a part owner of this and

um so cuz there's no I mean they can't change the price or anything. So well it seems like at least DCR and Pucket have been working in good faith with the town which is

great and you know you know the writer first refusal piece you know I think it it's probably a flip of a coin in terms of its value especially with the conservation restriction and and I think given how CRS are established in Massachusetts it's a pretty powerful you know tool to ensure a land is open space so I think That's I think that's a really good next step there. And you know, it sounds like it's just a matter of time rather than, you know, it becoming a bigger issue, especially if the money is there. So hopefully it just means that when they're ready, we'll be ready and we can move quickly and hopefully have not a lot of downtime between purchase and reimbursement for those various, you know, sources that were going to do a reimbursement based model to us.

Yeah, I know. That's so but that's good news that they're backing off of that because I guess there was this this whole right of first refusal. That's another whole set of legal guidelines that has to be put in there. So that was pretty complicated. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. But

I know it was something that was brought up at town meeting that caused a few people to pause on the situation, but um I really don't have any legal expertise either, but I know a few people had mentioned it at town meeting. So So that's good that they're able to move past that and work in conjunction with Rentham's legal team to streamline the process. Yeah. Yeah. And it it affects whether they can get title insurance, which is huge

because I actually had a property on Cape the Cape that my wife had purchased and we didn't realize it at the closing, but the owner didn't sign the documents. Her son did and initialed. put his initials underneath it, but our attorney had put uh title insurance on there, so our title was protected. So when we went to sell it, that came up, but because we had title insurance, done. So that was it's a big deal. Yeah.

So that was uh I guess you know when you need lawyers, it's it works. So um uh I had uh another item here about discussing uh possible educational events which I think we had discussed last time a little bit and I think we were going to get some information maybe at this meeting, but I don't have anything in my last meet last meeting.

I think Lauren was taking the ball on on most of that. Um, she had a lot of great ideas.

Yeah. So, we still have $1,500 in that uh in that fund. So, we can do a lot of things if we want to. And then we're going to reapply uh is it this fall whenever the sweat stuff comes out or is in the spring? So, okay. Um Okay. Uh the only other one I had was uh uh anything new on that White Barn farm or whatever happens. Uh, I was away for that meeting.

Well, it passed by a 5 to4 vote. Um, I voted no. I said the reasons why I voted no, but I knew that it was going to pass. I knew that the votes were there. Um, it wasn't, as as we expressed in our discussions, it wasn't anything about the property in and of itself. it's the the way the whole thing went down. So, I'm hoping moving forward that um and especially it will help with our meetings being recorded that there's transparency. If there are projects that are being worked on in the town, if there are land parcels coming up that we're applying for grants, let's all be on the same page and know what's happening so that we can be open with the community. um especially when we're asking for money.

So Jane on the since I I didn't I couldn't figure out how to watch the meeting. Um out of curiosity beyond the white barn far and parcel, what other proposals are advancing to the town meeting in November? Um I guess what I guess what came out of the meeting ultimately?

Yeah, there are only two others. Um well, what happened um about a week before the meeting? Um what happened was um they did their final accounting. So originally there was only going to be $200,000 was what was anticipated. Another large chunk of money was made available because of the timing of the 2095 West Street. So basically all three projects that were on the table were able to go forward and um that was a big reason why all three all three were able to go forward. Um so it's the um the Raymond property, the recreation pavilion, and there's a um not housing. Yeah, a a housing project where it's like $50,000 coming out of the housing budget. Um something that Rachel had proposed. Um something about affordable housing and bringing in a consultant to try to make that happen. And that was like 50 or $55,000 um ask for that. So all three passed

and that would be non-bonded. So it' be a a simple majority for each one of those or Yep. Nothing needs to be bonded. Okay. So there'll be three things at this this is in November, right? Yes. Yep. Okay. And how much is each do you remember how the white barn was 330, right? Uh I don't have an in it was either 330 or 310. I don't remember the ex I I actually have some of my paperwork with me, but Oh, the housing was 50,000.

50 or 55,000. Mhm. And then um the recreation was 208, but they've applied for a grant that would um if if they're awarded the grant would pay back 58% of that back to the CPC, but that doesn't get announced till the beginning of the year if if they get that grant. So they'll get back like 110 or more 120. Yes, something like that. I I don't have the math in front of me.

Okay. So where did more money come in than they thought was going to come in or what had happened was the monies that were allotted for the bond the bonding money because of when the 2095 West Street property closed and it sounds like it still hasn't closed. that money that they originally allotted for that. It was like $225,000 that they had originally allotted for that.

Um they didn't have to pay. They're not going to have to pay till next year. The only thing they had to pay this year were some interest fees. I believe $38,000 was all they required to pay this year um for that bond as opposed to the 225ish the principal that they were going to pay. Oh, because they don't they don't need it until after the closing to the closing. Yep.

So that's originally they had budgeted as if that money was already gone. So that's why the CPC as well as everyone that was following it assumed that there was only about $200,000 that was going to be able to be allotted for the generalized fund which was what open space and recreation were both were applying for. Um the his the housing comes out of a different budget because they haven't asked for any money over the past several years. So they already had like a hundred grand that's strictly just for housing. So um Yeah, because they all three were able to go through.

Yeah, because they have to allocate that every year. Yeah. 10% every year goes into each bucket. Oh, well that's great news actually for the town. All all three projects going through. We're swimming in money. Yeah. I don't know if I'd say swimming, but well, but we're uh we're we got money to spend. That's you know, that's a good thing. Well, hopefully between the land acquisitions and the improvements at at the uh complex, we can check some goals off of our open space and recreation plan, which would be great. So,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was that one of the goals in the in section 9, Jane? The pavilion? I know the recreation was that's a pavilion has been part of um the plan for the last 20 years. So, um that'll be good that they're able to accomplish some of that. Out of curiosity, where within the complex I know where the playground is and I know where like that concrete building is. Where would the pavilion be located? It's right behind the recreation building. Like if you are in the playground, you look to the right and there's a 90 by something concrete pad. Yeah.

That they recreation had put down last year through an ADA grant um to begin the process of the pavilion. So ask it will be Yeah, I was going to ask if it's where that concrete slab was. My husband and I were like, I don't know what that concrete slab is for.

That's what it was. Last year we applied for a um an ADA grant and we received the entire amount that we applied for but there were certain things that they weren't able to make happen um with certain walkways and stuff. So um the people in charge of the ADA uh recreation got their permission to use it for the slab for the pavilion and they were given it because that has to be all ADA compliant anyways. So yes. So, it's been sitting there waiting for a year. So, this will be great that we can have some covered space up there.

So, it's just it's going to be this big slab with a big roof on top of it. Basically, basically. Yep. Yep.

That'll be a nice spot to have. Yeah. I mean, there's a there's a pavilion down in Rhode Island that uh they just built. That's amazing. In in a perfect world, that's what we'd be able to do in Rethm. I mean, I forget. It's it's down by the ice cream place there in Rhode Island. They built this beautiful pavilion. Well, they built a bu well in Cumberland. They built across from Ice Cream Machine. They Well, they built uh it's a multi-function um building basically. It's meant Yes. That that's what in a perfect world we could have here and then we could rent it out for events and make some money for the town.

Yeah. Because they because I know uh I played tennis with like half the town of Cumberland and Oh, okay. They were grousing about how much that building costs and the fact that hired like they got two or three staff that worked it just work in that building. I mean I I haven't seen it in person, but I saw the pictures of it. It's it's amazing. It's really beautiful. But um No, I go by there like at least once a week because I we do food shopping at Dave's over in Cumberland. So, go right down Diamond Hill Road there. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice.

Yeah, it is. It's They did fix up that uh that that was it was a dump quite honestly that that area and they But, you know, it's a city of almost 40,000 people. So, there's a lot of money.

Oh, yeah. And they can do things like that, too. And I heard that the actual hall in and of itself is booked out for the next two years for weddings and events. So, so they'll make some money back anyways. But um but as far as what we'll have at the rice complex, it'll be good that people will have an area for shade and to to host a lot of things. I know that um a lot of members up at town hall were hoping that they could host different types of events under there. So, we'll see. Hopefully, it'll get go off without a hitch.

Okay. Well, that's that's good news. So, we're so if that p if these all pass, we that's a real valuable parcel up by White Barn Farm. It's too bad we didn't know about it sooner. You know, nobody told anybody, but that's another task. Um, I don't have anything more on the agenda. Does anybody have any new business or old things we want to talk about? Don't all yell at once.

I don't think so. I just think maybe if the next meeting we can, you know, if Lauren isn't able to be here, which is totally reasonable, just be able to have a report out because I know some of those

made a lot of good ideas and a lot of good leads and I'd like to get those on on the schedule for the year ahead so we can promote it and actively engage with the community in advance. Um, but I mean, Lauren has the connections and obviously is really familiar with the educational program. So at full conference, you know, it just starts to creep up by next you know the next thing you know it'll be the new year. So yeah. Yeah. I'm looking I I think something we can learn too from what happened with the Raymond Parcel was there was a lot of communication on social media and newsprint and everything. So maybe we can use those similar tools um to promote the open space programs that um that Lauren can put together and get some really good attendance.

Yeah, that's a great point. Really good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah, because actually I posted uh I think one of our walks last year on Facebook because I'm not a member but my wife is and I posted it. I just posted the brochure we had done and half the people that came to that event had seen the Facebook post.

Oh yeah, because there's there's all kinds of different groups on Facebook. There's like mom's groups and like Sheldonville groups and East Renthm groups and things like that. So there's all different ways to promote it on social media. Um there's also a um a rent engagement website. um they can put things on it. Um so there's lots of different avenues with social media and not necessarily my age group, but all you young people use social media exclusively. So um I hate Facebook. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with you. I That's why I'm not a member. Yeah. But I have actually I have some notes here. Um and there were some categories put down. There was an adult category which said invasive plants um presentation or a walk. Uh family based turtle rescue bird boxes and bugs. And and then there was another note here orientering with the boy scouts. So, those were some of the things I took notes the last time, so we must have been talking about those things.

Well, just something when you said turtle rescue, I walked my dog in the woods today and he sniffed a he found a little turtle on the path and I thought it was cute. I took a picture of him sniffing it. The next thing you know, it was in his mouth and it took me 45 minutes to get it out of his mouth. Like so much. I was afraid, first of all, he'd killed the turtle, but also that he'd choke on it because the shell, you know, wouldn't fit down his windpipe. So, yeah, it took 45 minutes. I called my husband in a panic. He met me up in the woods. He came home from work to try to help me get it out of his mouth. But yeah, so that's turtle rescue for us.

Cut it out. So we'll have to we'll have to get that publicized Jane that you saved from your dog. You know, another idea we could consider that's related to orientering is that I know there are uh professional like trackers that teach tracking, you know, animal tracks, right?

And that might be a good winter spring time when there's either mud or snow and usually those are like pre-anned um you know presentations. So something we can look into next time might be something for like winter uh early spring. Yeah, something like that might be good to um maybe tie in with the scouts and and things like that, you know, because I bet they'd want to be involved.

And I believe I think was it Daryl, was it you had the connection with the I'm going to mess it up, the green team or the environmental science group at KP? I feel like there was like a a club that had an outdoor or environmental like angle to what they did and it was a teacher in particular who probably taught environmental science or something at KP. That might be another audience to target a little bit older group. Oh, you muted. Sorry about that.

A couple years ago there was a couple of uh teachers and students that were involved but I haven't heard from anybody since. I'm not sure where that's gone. Okay. Okay. Um Okay. Um hearing uh nothing, I guess I'll uh I'll send that email to everyone and if u if you have any questions um you could just uh about 2095. Um I you could just send a note I guess to to Michael, you know, just asking. But it's pretty self-explanatory. Um, it's a little vague on the whole thing about the uh uh family member, but that's obviously it's none of our business because, you know, they're going to sell it anyway. They have to get their house in order. So, but I'll send that out uh as soon as I can log out of Zoom here. So, and uh I'm going to make a motion to close the meeting at 8.

Make a motion. I'll second it. All in favor? I I Okay, thank you uh all for coming and uh we'll see you in about a month. All right. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Good night.