City Council - Regular Meeting

I'm ready.

[laughter] [clears throat]

You Happy birthday.

[clears throat] Hallelujah. Holy God.

[music]

Heat. Heat. Hey,

[music]

How beautiful. Hey.

All right. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey.

[music] [music]

Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Afternoon everyone. Uh, madame clerk, could you read the role, please?

Certainly. Good afternoon. Mr. Bailey here. Mr. Brown, Miss Herbert, Dr. Bus, here. Mr. Brennan, present. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman, here. Thank you.

Um, Reverend McDow, could you say a word, please? Creator and most merciful, we thank you for this season of Advent. We ask that you might sensitize us to the Advent season and yet to your will and your grace. Touch us all. Be with us all. Undergard and protect us. Protect this city of ours as we continue to grow and flourish. We ask it in your name. Amen. Amen. Amen.

Stand for the pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor and Council and happy holidays to everyone. At this time, we will adopt today's agenda. And Mr. Mayor, I do not believe there are any additional amendments. Well, that's a good thing. Yes, sir. Second. Got a motion, a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Seeing none, Madam Clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey, hi. Mr. Brown, hi. Dr. Bussles. Hi. Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rickman. I.

Public input. Individuals are allotted up to three minutes to address city council about items on the agenda. These items um are for this period and do not require a public hearing. So any items that are part of the public hearing will be addressed um at that time. All right. Thank you.

Yes, sir. At this time, we have Mr. Rick Patel signed up to speak on item 31. Hello. Hey. Um, I'm Rick Patel. I have a few hotels here in downtown Columbia and I'm talking about number 31. [gasps] So, basically the city building that y'all put up for sale is coming up. The contract is in y'all's hands. Um, it wasn't done correctly. I just want to make sure everybody knows about it. I bided $5 million for the project. Y'all is selling it for $2.9 million and then giving the owners 400,000. That's half the price that I offered. Something needs to be looked at. This is [clears throat] not right for the taxpayers of city Columbia losing this kind of money. On top of it, I bided the amount of money just for the building. The new ownership has parking garage included. That's losing parking for the city people that we already had parking problem. This is a big issue for the Columbia citizens. So, [snorts] something needs to be addressed. Thank you.

[clears throat]

Mayor, no one else has signed up to speak during this portion of the meeting.

So moved. Second. Second.

Mr. Bailey. Hi. Mr. Brown. Hi. Dr. Bussles. Hi. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman. I thank you.

This point, I'd like to take an opportunity for a point of personal privilege. I'd like to take the time to honor our colleague, Dr. Oddity Busles. As she concludes her historic term here on Columbia City Council, Dr. Busles was a trailblazer. She made history as the first Asian-American Pacific Island Outlander woman elected to Columbia City Council. She accomplished this as a source of immense pride for this AAPI community and the entire city. Your leadership and civic engagement, training the next generation of diverse leaders, will be felt for years to come. Your engagement brought a new voice, a critical demographic to the city conversation and one that's focused on the future. We are very fortunate that at the time on your council coincided with a critical period in our community. As a trained public health professional, your policy experience and your clear, poise communication was invaluable. You ensured that our policy discussions were always grounded in data and community well-being. You brought muchneeded subject matter expertise to the complex issues, ensuring the best outcomes for our citizens. Your commitment to service excellence has earned you recognition that spans from state capital to the national stage. You're awarded the National League of Cities Under 40 award. This is a distinction that recognizes you as one of the nation's top emerging young leaders in municipal government, validating your fresh perspective in your strategic policy work. The South Carolina Public Health Alumni Award, I should say, South Carolina School of Public Health alumni award, excuse me. Your work demonstrates a lasting commitment to public health policy, showcasing the immense value of

the professional training right here in our community. Your impact not only will be felt long after your term ends, especially in two real three, well, several areas, but two that are very impactful currently. won the homelessness efforts that you took the lead heading the homeless task force ensured that this complex human ah excuse me humanitarian I can't speak today excuse me issue remains a council priority driving us towards actionable compassionate solutions black maternal health week you were instrumental in establishing black maternal health week here in Colombia elevating a critical equity issue and connecting ing residents to vital local uh resources marketing. It's beyond policy that you were engaged in Colombia's fiercest and one of Colombia's fiercest advocates, especially in how we tell our story, which is the theme that we picked up on from day one is that we wanted to tell our story about Colombia. You pushed us to think outside the box on the city's rebrand. You understood the importance of spreading Colombia's story far and wide. Your advocacy ensured invested we invested in innovative tools from new signage to video storytelling to communicate Colombia's vibrancy and potential to not only other parts of our state, other parts of the southeast, but to our country as a whole. Dr. Brussels. We thank you for your intellect, your passion, your unwavering commitment to our city. You leave this council better than you found it. You set a high bar for excellence and community focus. Your excellence, your legacy will continue to inspire

young women across our country, also AAPI leaders across South Carolina, across the nation. because of your presence at the National League of Cities and being on that board. And so with that, we have a couple small items we'd like to share with you as a gift on your last meeting at Columbia City Council. [applause] [applause]

[applause]

The floor is yours. Uh, Dr. Russell C.

I know y'all are here for a lot of other issues, but I'm going to take advantage of a crowd to say my uh say my part as I end this exciting chapter. [clears throat] Today is not an ending. It is a moment to take a breath like I just did and look how far we've come. When I first raised my hand wearing a fabulous purple coat right after COVID uh and took my oath at inauguration five years ago, I believe that public service should feel human. I believe that it should start with listening. I believe that local government could be bold and still be compassionate. I believe that leadership worked best when it invited people in and didn't exclude people. Being here the last four years has only confirmed that for me. If anything, it's made my belief and purpose stronger. This campaign happened in one of the toughest seasons of my life. But I walk through it. And when I think back on it, it's this is not what stays with me. What stays with me is the purpose. Hard seasons have a way actually of clarifying why you showed up in the first place. I will always remember knocking those doors, walking through neighborhoods, and hearing not just about what was not working, but was also working. I also remember seeing you all at food truck Fridays, families sitting together, small businesses doing well, neighbors staying a little longer because the city felt alive. I will remember people stopping me at grocery stores on sidewalks and at community events saying, "Here's what I love, but here's what you can do better. This is what democracy looks like on a local level." And honesty is what made the city better. It also made me better. From the start, I knew the best ideas were going to come from all of you. So, some of the initiatives that I took part in, like Lock It Up Colombia or Colombia's first Black Maternal Health Week, actually came from you. I've

printed out the emails to remind myself that the best ideas come from the people. [snorts] My job was never to have all the answers, but it was to listen well enough to act. So, to the staff at the city of Colombia, thank you. Thank you for daydreaming with me and for allowing me to be super annoying about social media. uh because I know you all recognize how important it is for us to tell our story and all the great things that we are doing. Ideas do not turn into reality without people willing to do the work day in and day out. You all brought professionalism, creativity, and a heart to everything you touched. If something worked, it was because all of you made it happen. To my colleagues on council, thank you for your partnership. We did not always agree, but we shared the same responsibility of moving the city forward and to serve the people well, leave it better than we found it. And I challenge you to continue to do that because that matters more than any single vote. I'm proud of what we've accomplished together. We've strengthened the community, expanded opportunity, supported small businesses, and showed people that local government is the magic. It can feel accessible and real. Progress does not have to be allowed to last. It just has to be intentional. And the work we started here is not finished. So as I step away from this role, I do so with gratitude, with peace, and with real optimism. This is [snorts] not about me closing a door. It is about carrying forward everything this experience has taught me. I may be stepping away from this seat, but I'm not stepping away from this city. I've learned enough here to be very patient about what comes next. Columbia's future is bright because people are engaged, thoughtful, and not afraid to imagine more. This city certainly changed me. It definitely challenged me and once a city does that, it never really lets you go. So, thank you to all of you for placing your trust in me. I hope that you see that I gave it my heart and soul these last four years. [snorts] Thank you for

believing in me and for believing in a leadership that's rooted in humanity and for loving this outsider and making her feel that she's come home. [laughter] So, to all of you, ever forward. [applause]

Mr. Mayor, I don't know if there were any additional um comments for this period with Dr. Busel's final meeting. I know I had gotten some um requests for for folks to speak, but I don't know if they still wanted to do that. Jenkins.

Chief Jenkins. Mayor, council, city manager. Thank you for this [clears throat] opportunity. I just want to present something to Dr. Busles. Um I know she and I had a real unique um relationship. We were all talking about how we at the same place at the same time, how we knew different people. So I just wanted to present something to you. First of all, I want to present you with our 120 year commemorative patch from from the department. 120 years, but also want to present something else to you. This is a coin that we only give to members of our department. It's a special coin. And if anybody else got it, either [clears throat] I gave it to them or I don't know how they got it [laughter] if they not a member of the fire department. But there's also another special corn that I only give for certain reasons. It got some rich some comments on it. On one side, dedication and all that good stuff, but on one side it says excellent. And I only give this coin. This is the Chief's coin. I only give it out for excellent. I have given out very few of these coins, but I'm proud to give it to you today. But the last thing I want to do is so I'mma read this. It says this certifies that Councilwoman Dr. Audy Busel is recognized as an honorary member of the

Columbia Fire Department. and I had the pleasure signing this for you. So I want to present you with this certificate at this time. [applause] [applause] What you got? That means you can get called in the middle of the night to show up.

Volunteer Chief Hullbrook since I got called out. Um [laughter] I've got I I have something. Um so Miss Wilson, mayor, if I may. Um Dr. Bustles, um let's get something clear. First of all, we're not making you an honorary police officer. Okay. [clears throat and cough] No. Um I I'm very privileged to stand here and um and recognize your extraordinary service uh to this city. Um the trailblazer that you are. And it's my honor to present you to you on behalf of the police department, the chief's award for excellence. And it's presented to Councilwoman Dr. audit busels in recognition for your unwavering support and contributions to the advancement of the Columbia Police Department. Thank you very much. [applause] Mr. Mayor, council, as you all witnessed this past year, Black Expo had unprecedented success addressing some of the health concerns the citizens of the great city of Colombia. And I wanted to publicly thank Dr. Busles for challenging me, challenging me to use this event to continue to empower our citizens and particularly addressing those health concerns. very grateful as uh two weeks ago we had our holiday drop in.

Councilman uh Brown uh was there to give comments. We thank him. But I'd be remiss if I did not come before you today to say thank you to this young lady for challenging me to make this event what it is for the great citizens of Colombia. Thank you. [applause] Uh, was there anyone else? Um, [clears throat] why are you here? I know there were several folks here and obviously the chiefs are here. Madam,

thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council. Um, well, we certainly on behalf of the staff, Dr. Brussels, [clears throat] appreciate your service and wish you the very best going forward. Moving on with our presentations for this evening, we have item number two. Finally, Finley by Miss Jennifer Bartell Boyin, our city poet laurette. And Mr. Mayor and Council, Miss Boyin was not able to uh join us during the grand reopening, but I do believe that it is certainly worthy of the time today for us to share the poem that she Mr. Mayor and council. [music] Well, we certainly on behalf of the staff, Dr. muscles appreciate your service and wish you your best [music] going forward. Moving on with our presentations for this evening, we have item number two, family. Always like hearing what I sound like. [laughter] Thank you, Chaz. Um, we will move forward as I said with finally Finley and I'm not sure if the our poet laur Laurette is here but if she is we would love her to come forward upon completion of the video. Please take care. Sounds like [music]

[music] peace. for through the stretch [music] of yola. Pickle ball game picked up a hill to

[clears throat]

Mr. Premier, if you all would like to take up the consent agenda items while we work through some technical difficulties, would you like for me to move you? I think that might be a good thing.

Okay. [music] Finally, family. Finally, family. A second life well loved. [music] A gift we didn't know we needed. The mist of a park for rest and joy. For quiet [music] from the noise. piece down by the stream. Y forth with a stretch of yoga. Pickle [music] ball getting picked up. A hill to roll down or quick [music] workout. A strolling walk. A place to vibe to music or enjoy. A [music] place to comfort your soul. Heat. [music] Heat. [music] [music]

[music]

to shake the rest of the day. Her [music] ears [music] prickle the sounds of children's laughter people coming and going. [music] The stage faces the city to ser [music] [music] you remember walking around the pond to get to the other [music] side. You stand Heat. [music] [music] Heat. [music]

[applause] [applause]

What laurate position? Oh, should I start over?

I feel blessed to live in a city that loves its poets so much that has it has established a poet laurate position. Thank you to the city of Colombia, especially to Scott Garrick, parks and recreation. Special thanks to City Parks architect Todd Martin who showed me blueprints and gave me early access to the then under construction Finley Park. Thank you Xavier Blake at One Colombia for arts and culture for your undying support and advocacy for arts in the colum in Colombia. Thank you to my partner Lester Boyin at New Sky Film Productions for capturing the essence of the park. Like Finley Park, poetry is for everyone. Let us continue to use our words to heal ourselves and one another. The vibrant poetry community in Colombia and I look forward to writing more poems about our fair Colombia. Love and blessings to everyone this holiday season. [applause] Jennifer, you did. did an exceptional job and it's certainly worth the wait for us to share with our community. We hope that there'll be printed copies. I know Mr. Mayor is is asking about that. So, we'll work with you and Xavier on that. And I do think that Jennifer certainly captures the essence of the park. And as she said, our Colombia, what we had yesterday may not be what you see tomorrow. And I would say that that is certainly timely as this council is going to be looking at many, many worthy projects, some on this agenda today. You can rest assured just like Finley Park, they're going to be done right. They're going to be done with integrity and they are certainly being

done in the light of day. And so we are looking forward to the approvals just as we did and delivered on Finley Park delivering on many exceptional projects going forward starting today on this agenda. Um and with that, Mr. Mayor and Council, I want to take another moment of personal privilege um to recognize a very special member of the city team who's been um a ride or die with us for a long time, 14 years, um but has reached the point in her career where she wants to retire. And so I want to welcome and ask assistant city manager Pamela Benjamin to come forward to be recognized. Um, Pamela has been a big part of so many of our projects and [applause] we want to recognize her today. [applause] So, if you want to have any words, now's the time as we bring forward something to recognize your service if you can. We'll see. Yeah, we will see. Well, I just want to say thank you. [snorts] Thank you to everyone for your your friendship and your love. It's been a lot long adventure our 14 years. We've been through a lot. Um but at the core of it all, we are here to serve the citizens. I want to thank Miss Wilson for her amazing leadership. I am in awe of her every day. Um, I want to thank all the ACMS, all the department heads, everybody who's made this such a special place to me. Um, I'm going to miss everybody and I

love everybody, but you all are going to be on my calendar for weekly lunches and dinners and all the things. I'm not leaving Colombia, so I'll be around. And um yeah, that's all I have to say is thank you. [applause] [applause] So, we know she's a fashionista and she loves beautiful things. So, this is a tribute to you, my sister, my friend, and our colleague. We love you. Yes. And I will say today as we send off two exceptional women, women have strength like no other. So I know that both of these women we will meet again. We don't burn bridges and we're going to see all these great things that both of you all are going to be doing in our city and beyond. Yes. Yes. Amen. [applause] Mr. Mayor, thank you.

No, thank you. Our consent agenda consists of items 3 through 18. Is there a motion? So move.

Got a motion and a second. I do want to just take the opportunity to to you know highlight this this agenda at the end of the year has a lot of a lot of things in it and our our support for our entrepreneurial growth here with our incubator uh for medical services for our employees here locally investing in our our our departments the roof things like roof roof replacements at Hyatt Park uh the capital improvements that are being done in our parking garages, the investment in our infrastructure. I mean, we we're doing a lot of things at the same time, but constantly investing. But one that is not on this consent agenda that's coming up and that we've waited for decades to happen is the riverfront planning and master uh design plan that's happening. 19 respondents from around the globe took the opportunity to want to be part of something that uniquely changes uh our riverfront. An opportunity for us to open access that hasn't been there and an opportunity for us really to have a gathering which will tie in to this 27 miles of trail and the opportunity for all citizens to feel that that river and be part of it. And as it connects and we end up all the way at the dam and back to Graanby and through the town, it connects in that urban trail that we've been looking for. So, we're very excited about that. With that, Madame Clerk, could you read the role?

Yes, sir. Mr. Bailey, hi. Mr. Brown, hi. Dr. Bussles, hi. Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman, I. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council. The consideration of bids, contracts, and change orders begins with item 19. As Mayor Rickman referenced, this is uh the the that the item where council is asked to approve a new professional services contract for the riverfront project plan and design master plan as requested by city administration on January 13, 2025. The award is to Field Operations LLC in an amount not to exceed $1,690,553 which includes contingency. The initial term of the contract will take effect upon issuance of the notice to proceed with an end date one year from commencement and the option to renew for two additional one-year periods. This firm is located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Motion to approve.

Move. We got a motion in a second. I do want to before we take the vote, I want to take an opportunity to thank some individuals in the the crowd. I'd like to to thank George Bailey and the Boyd Family Foundation who is an intricate part uh for two decades working on this, but also investing not only their time and effort, but funding behind to make these type of projects happen in our community. George, I wanted to thank you and and the Boyd family and invite you up to say something after the vote. And then, of course, our former assistant city manager, Missy Gentry, who was um very tenacious and and and not willing to give up on this project even after we were turned down for so many different uh grants and opportunities for this and we came together. Um, also want to thank the Richland County uh council and the penny sales tax which also played an intricate part in making this happen. Um, so we're very excited with that. With that, we're going to take a vote and George, I didn't know if you wanted to say something on behalf of the Boyd Foundation or anything.

After the vote, you got it. Also, Key, I don't see him here, but Charlie Thompson and the entire Ginyard family. this would not happen without them donating property and making it happen and his willingness to wait to get the right project. And it reminded me of what uh Joe Riley said when he he created the design institute within the US Conference of Mayors says better to wait 10 years on planning that's been a hundred years unwinding something. Well, we've waited 20 years, but it's happening and it's going to be an absolute incredible piece to our community. With that, Madame Clerk, could you read the role?

Mr. Bailey, I. Mr. Brown, hi. Dr. Brussels, I. Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman, I Mr. Bailey, would you like to say something?

And as George comes forward, Mr. Mayor, we certainly um know what a journey it has been and the journey continues. We're excited. Um on the agenda, it does reference a special presentation, Mr. Mayor. So, you knew to call Mr. Bailey on up and his um efforts on behalf of the Boyd Foundation are truly appreciated. um the the staff and the Boyd Foundation, the University of South Carolina, the University of South Carolina Foundation, um Missy, you know, it's just been a team effort. And I know Richland County is also going to be involved in this effort even more so going forward. And so, um this contract that you just approved is for the design work. And I know Mr. Bailey wants to speak to the going forward after that with a special presentation regarding construction.

Well, Theresa's kind of covered the waterfront of all the people that are involved in this, but it is our pleasure to work with everyone on this project and finally see this project coming to fruition. And as an opener, I've got a check here for $5 million to the city of Columbia. [applause]

[applause]

There will be more to come. Wow. Just casual tiny check. Do we trust anybody with that check? [laughter] We fix her with that check. Who' we give that check to? better be able to trust the CFO and assistant city manager. We got problem. [laughter] He's already making his way to the door has been raised. If you get called up, you better 100%. Any more any more speakers? Yeah.

Well, that was a mic drop moment and we knew it was coming because the Boy Foundation and Charlie Thompson and the Genyard family have been um only about excellence and waiting for the right time. and the time is is right now with everything else that is going on in our city. So, George and family, thank you very very much. Much appreciated, [applause]

Mr. Mayor. Now, I don't see why he wanted the vote to go for it first. [laughter] I think I'd hold the check, too. Thank you. We will move forward. It's hard to do after that with our resolutions. And the first is also related to this project item 20 resolution number R205085 authorizing the city manager to execute a memorandum of understanding between the city of Colombia and Richland County for the riverfront district.

Mayor move second. We got a motion, a double motion and a double second uh for that. I do want to say th this is why it's very important for us to continue to work together both with the county and the city by creating this district. We're planning ahead for the future of this park and the maintenance of it. not trying to figure it out on the back end, but planning for it in the front end and capturing some of that growth and reinvesting it in there so that we don't end up uh with a a beautiful park in the beginning and something that is not being maintained or can't be maintained. Um so this is very important for us to be thinking together along with all our partners and planning ahead as we get into the stages of of the planning but also for the execution. So with that, madame clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey,

hi. Mr. Brown, hi. Dr. Bussles, hi. Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman,

I thank you. And Mr. Mayor, again, I would ask that all the partners are here that are here, if they would please stand and be recognized. I don't want to miss anyone. I know um Jason with the foundation, I'm not sure if they're here. If there any is there anyone else here, Missy, George were recognized. We've had partners beforehand, the William Street Extension Project will be moving forward as well. So, we know the Midlands BIS business leadership group and our state legislature, like I said, Richland County, everyone has been on board and we don't want to leave anyone out because we're very thankful for everyone's participation. Thank you.

Thank you. Starting our public hearing and first reading for zoning planning matters. The annexation future land use map amendment and zoning map amendment for 5603 5607 and 5615 old forest drive is item 21. I know Andrew Living good will come forward to assist with the zoning public hearing.

Sure thing. And and to be clear, I do not have a check. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. So, so the first item on public hearing is the annexation. Well, I will not read that again. So, this is a request to annex the property and to assign the land use classification of urban edge regional activity center UAC2 and assign zoning of general commercial district GC for pending annexation. The property is currently classified as mixed residential, high density, and zoned general commercial by Richland County. This this this was a donut hole, correct?

And actually, I apologize. It looks like this is the wrong slide. Um Oh, here we go. Sorry. Um this this is um kind of a dunnel hole. It it um is is bound by the city on on some sides and forest acres on the other side. Is there anybody here to speak for or against this item? Yes, sir. Please come to the podium.

Good evening. I'm the developer, so I'm here to answer any questions, but if any facts need to be laid out, I'm happy to do so. Is there any questions from council? Is there anybody speak any other folks speak for against this item? No one has signed up. All right. Um, is there a motion, Mr. Brown? Motion for approval. Second. Second by Mr. Bailey. Madame Clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey, yes. Mr. Brown, yes. Dr. Brussels I Mr. Brennan yes Mr. McDow. Mayor Rickman. I

Okay. The next item is an annexation future land use map amendment and zoning map amendment for 101 or a portion thereof 119 and 125 Lake Murray Boulevard. And uh this is a request to annex the property, assign the land use classification of urban edge mixed residential and assign zoning of residential um mixed district RM2 for a pending annexation. Uh the the property is currently classified as mixed residential highdensity and zoned residential 3 R3 by Richland County. Is there anybody here to speak for this project or against this project?

Mayor, Mr. Charlie Hager has signed up to speak. All right. Yep. I'm uh I'm Tyler Watson. I'm with the developer. Um Charlie Hager's our civil engineer. We brought him as well. Um happy to answer any questions or any clarification if needed. Does council have I know M. Herbert's not here, but Mr. Bailey. Yes. Um Mr. Mayor, um what are some of your plans for this area?

Yeah, so the uh the main plan is 300 garden apartment units um offered at basically the same rates that are offered today. Uh we recently completed a apartment project in Lexington County off of Lake Murray Boulevard, the station at Lake Murray. Um plan to do something similar but a little bit more upscale than that. Um and then there will be a potential town home or single family portion uh for whatever's remaining on the site. And this is near um the [snorts] Broad River interchange if you're heading on the back side of uh towards 26. Yeah. So it's it's right where Lake Murray Boulevard starts. So right next to the fire station that's owned by the city.

And that's that's a city fire station there. Correct. Yeah. Council, any other questions? Was there anyone else signed up to to speak, madame clerk? No, sir. Okay. Is there um a motion? So moved. Is that a motion? Is there a second?

Second. Second. There's a motion in a second. Madam clerk, did you read the role? Mr. Bailey. Hi. Mr. Brown. Hi. Dr. Bussell. Hi. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Hi. Mayor Rickman. Hi. Thank you.

Um that brings us to our next item which is um 2430 Chappelle Street in an unincorporated portion of 2428 Chappelle Street. And this is a request to annex a property assigned to land use classification of urban core residential small lot and assigned zoning of residential single family medium lot for pending annexation. The property is currently classified as mixed residential high density and zoned residential 5 by county. [clears throat] Is there anybody here to speak for or against this item?

Item 23. Um, Reverend McDow, this is district two. So, move. You got a motion. Is there a second? Second by Mr. Bailey. Um, since no one else is here to speak for or against this item, Madam Clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey, I I I Yes. Yes. I

The next item on our agenda is a parcel at the 1700 block of Rosewood Drive and Fulton Street. And this is a request to reszone the property from neighborhood activity centercord district in the city's airport safety overlay district to neighborhood activity center corridor district. And so this is a request to remove the airport safety overlay district which is a city zoning classification. Mr. Mayor.

Yes, Mr. Wilson, Miss Hammond. I'd like to have the public hearing tonight, but defer the vote upon legal staff's review of the aeronautics commission letter that city staff and city council received. um if that's possible.

Just for the record, um staff approved and and public um the planning commission approved, but we received that letter this week. And so I do think it's pertinent for us to make sure that there's no um concerns there. And if we could get that done, that would be great. But I would go ahead with the public hearing. So, if there's anyone here to speak for or against this item, um, we have an individual signed up to speak, Mr. Peter Savales. Yes. And, and just for the sake of clarification, staff recommendation was denial, but planning commission recommended approval. It was what? Denial.

Okay. It says staff sponsored. We need to be clear. Either you you're you're with number 25. You're looking at number 24. Yeah. Yeah. Number 20. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was looking at the same thing. Mayor, I'm moving too fast for my own good. Mayor, good evening, Mayor Council. Sir,

I'm Peter Sabalis, airport general manager for the Jim Hamilton LB Owens Airport. I'm speaking on the matter of this against it. The Jim Hamilton LB Owens Airport is one of the Colombia's greatest community assets. As a general aviation facility, it connects our city to businesses and opportunities across the region and beyond. [clears throat] Corporate aircraft flying into Owens every day bring leaders, investors, and visitors to strengthen Colombia's economic and economy and helps our community thrive. These activities strengthen Colombia's competitiveness, fosters economic growth, and ensures the region makes connected to the national and global markets. Richland County, who I work for, stewardship of the airport carries a dual responsibility, protecting the safety of the aircraft operations and ensuring the airport remains a trusted community partner. The airport safety overlay district is a critical tool in fulfilling this responsibility by limiting incompatible residential intensifications within the inner approach zone. The overlay safeguards pilots, passengers, and nearby residents while preserving the operational integrity of the airport. Removing the overlay will allow multif removing this overlay will allow multif family residential developments in the close proximity to the airport's approach path. Increasing in density and in building heights beyond the current 35 ft cap such changes could compromise safety conflict with the South Carolina Aeronautics Commission's guidance under title 55 and create long-term challenges for the airport's operations. The airport's value extends well beyond aviation. It's a community partner that supports local businesses and serves as a gateway for visitors and investors. Protecting the safety of the aircraft operation is essential to ensuring that

the airport can continue serving residences, businesses, and v visitors reliably. By maintaining the safe land use around the airport, we preserve its role as a gateway for growth and a partner for the community. Thank you. But before you leave, I I I just I got to ask. I'm looking at this property on the map. It's up on the upper side of Rosewood. Yes, sir.

You know, I I I don't understand how this impacts the travel when I'm looking at the area as a whole for this this parcel where it's located and the distance from from the airport. Can you explain it a little bit to me because I'm having a hard time understanding why this would would affect anything to do with the landing patterns? It serves as a call it a bellweather marker if we remove the overlay take away the overlay district off this property. Technically the property does sit at a little bit higher elevation

than the beginning of the runway. So the cap that we have on it that the ordinance your ordinance uh requires that 35 foot cap is actually closer to the approach level the approach angle that the airplanes come over and in general it would be a land use issue allowing airplanes to recognize that airplanes will be coming overhead landing approaching the airfield from the north side. But I guess I guess where I'm and and I'm trying to be educated because it's it's it's it's a little confusing, but across the street is Road was Hill, which is elevated two stories and higher up. And this is on the other side of that. So I I know you're saying, but it's grandfathered in already. It's already in place. We're we're trying to slow down any new developments to impinge on that gap on that gap.

So it's a height issue for you. It's not in part. Yes, sir. And then it's also an issue of we want to make sure we want to be good partners and as the airport activity continues to grow, we want to make sure that they're well aware that we've got airplanes that could be potentially coming overhead. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you, [clears throat] Mayor. Mr. John Hodgej signed up to speak as well. [clears throat]

Mr. Mayor, members of council, I'm John Hodgej. to represent the South Carolina Aeronautics Commission. I appreciate the opportunity to to present to you this evening. Mr. Benner and I do also appreciate your willingness to defer the vote until you've had legal advice on the matter. I just want to say why is a state agency aeronautics commission is a state agency. Why is a state agency interested in the parcel of land being reszoned down on Rosewood Drive? Because the South Carolina code says that the land use decisions by county and municipal governments and local agencies shall take into account the presence of airport land use zones and airport safety zones and consult with the division of aeronautics uh prior to making decisions affecting uh act you know activities in those zones. Now, by virtue of the planning commission's removing the airport overlay district from this parcel, you know, you essentially are not cont you're contravening state law and it's a really uh problematic kind of presidential decision. If you choose to do that, you may end up with spot zoning. next time a case comes up and you've got uh an issue, you can put another hole in your airport overlay district and you ultimately contravene the state law. So, our concern is that the planning commission did not consider the presence of the zones when they made their decision. At least it appears that way. Uh I mentioned spot zoning. It's really an issue when you remove parcels from the zone and it's inconsistent with state law with title 55 and that could be viewed also as being non-compliant. And I would say that you know there are also grant assurances when the county gets a grant to to for for infrastructure for the airport. There are certain responsibilities and those extend to the city to make sure there's proper zoning to protect the public investment in the airport. So our

concern really is that this is a a excuse me this is a bad uh precedent to to exempt you know in other words to remove the overlay zone there. I do think the applicant's interest could be served in other ways that maybe would not necessarily require removal of the zone. So we would ask you at this point to deny the application and not to remove the airport overlay zone. And Mr. Mayor, just to respond to your question to the airport manager, I will say that that you we have development around airports that's grandfathered in. We can't change that. But with title 55, when 2012, it was amended. State law was amended. And then the whole concept is to to try to put standards so there's compatible development near our airports. In other words, you don't want to put people in close proximity to aircraft. And I I do agree that this this project is a bit far up Rosewood Drive, but there's also a rising elevation from the airport there and that does affect aircraft approach and departure patterns. Uh but nonetheless, that that I think there may be another way to accomplish what the applicant wants, but it should not be through removing the airport overlay zone. That's a slippery slope. You just don't want to go down. Thank you. Any questions,

sir? Yes. So 2012 was the grandfather year that he's referring to. the that's when the state code was was adopted and so development in other words the aeronautics commission looks at existing development and says okay we can't change that it's already there but let's say someone goes back and wants to redevelop it or there's a new building permit for another activity over time that airport area around the airport will change from a a land use standpoint and as as people come in for building permits and for zoning changes and those sorts of things then ultimately that the uh uh you know the the [clears throat] compatibility standards will apply to new development but not to old development and that's the idea that we we try to look look toward and the aeronautics commission also believes it's up to local communities to protect the airports which means the city and the county both. Do you know is it a priority for the county to invest in the infrastructure uh of the airport and what is what is investing in infrastructure at an airport a local county airport look like? in in terms of the the investment that's there.

There's always been talk of extending the runway. Well, there's there's instrument approaches, there's lighting, there's the the runway, there's the drainage, their airport businesses. Chris Everman, the director of airport development for the aeronautics commission is sitt seated here tonight and he knows the master plan very well.

Mr. Mayor, members of [clears throat] city council, sir, could I ask you to repeat the question, please? What's the timeline for expansion of the runway?

Um, the FAA at this point has not bought in or approved the uh um study to extend the runway. Um, that is not a lost hope. um and possibly with um a recent project that is underway at the airport um with FAA sponsorship uh to review all of the existing standards and their compliance. Hopefully the ability to expand the runway will come up again and be supported in the future. Um but I would just say that just because that is on pause does not mean that either the FAA or the state um are not supporting the airport. Um there is a uh over $7 million project that is getting ready to uh go underway for the reconstruction of the taxi lanes. So, uh, investment in, uh, CUB continues and, uh, and we do hope that someday the, uh, the runway will be extended.

So, so, and you're very familiar with with the railroad assembly street project that's coming up that's going to unlock development opportunities, private investment for for wonderful things along that lower rosewood and assembly corridor. How is this moving forward? It sounds like we need to put our heads together about what what a a future development plan looks like for for our needs and our wants as it's developed around the fairgrounds, all the state state property and on into Assembly Street, which is a major corridor for future development in our eyes. So, how do we how do we compare notes and work towards that so stuff like this doesn't pop up in the future to halt right

halt quality investment? Um you know um I look upon the job of the aeronautics commission um to kind of be a facilitator and [clears throat] uh you know we have a situation here. I'm not going to say it's unique but uh we have a governmental entity um that uh where the the county or excuse me where the airport lays and 90% plus of the area surrounding the airport but you're not the airport sponsor. So, um, we need to make sure that we've got all of the stakeholders involved. The state certainly can and is dedicated to facilitating that. And I think that the, uh, the airport sponsor as well, they're uh, uh, taking on, um, the, uh, review of the standards at the airport, um, so that, uh, hopefully we can realize that expansion in some uh, some future date. But you're absolutely right. Um, it's not just about the existing perimeter. uh we got to think in terms of three dimensions uh with the airspace issues and uh we are ready at any time um to uh to assist with that and I I would be remiss if I did not compliment uh the city's planning department and their um uh um application of and their uh awareness of the clue tool and title 55 and compatible development. We really do enjoy that good relationship. We wish it's a model. We wish we had it uh elsewhere in the state.

Great. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I got Mr. Mayor. Well, hold on. Hold on. I just don't want them to leave. Uhhuh. Don't want [snorts and clears throat] them to leave. You want to ask them another question because we I know that we've got the applicant wants to speak as well. Yeah, sure. Just curious, how many planes uh take off and land a day at Jim Hamilton Airport?

Yes, sir. I think the airport spager would be better. um better suited to uh to answer that. Um the number that we used to use which was very high was something on the order of 56,000 operations per year. Now that is a takeoff or a landing. Um but it is one of our major general aviation airports uh here in uh here in South Carolina. um in terms of number of based aircraft uh it's uh it's one of the largest. So um maybe that kind of gives you an idea as to the level of activity and

Thank you. One more question, Mr. Mayor. What type of planes typically fly out of Jim Hamilton? Land or take off?

Yes, sir. So, um the airport has a uh classification of B2 and that addresses the uh the type of aircraft that um uh predominantly um take [clears throat] off and uh and land at the airport. Um that is not a hard and fast limit, but it kind of gives you an idea. general aviation aircraft, corporate aircraft, smaller jets, uh recreational aircraft. Those are the types that you see based at CUB and uh patronizing it. And as the airport general manager said that, uh you know, corporate and business aircraft, um um university, uh sports recruiters, they all use that type of airport with great regularity. Thank you. Yes sir. [clears throat]

Thank you sir. Thank you

mayor. We also have Ashu Kamar signed up to speak and he is right here.

Thank you ma'am and thank you very much. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to just come in front of you all to say in front of city council. Uh thank you Mr. Linger. Um my name is Ashikumar. I am I'm the owner of Kumar Construction. I am a general contractor specialized in South Carolina. Especially I'm representing the owner of 1700 Rosewood Drive which is Mr. Tucker. What he wants to do he just want to make one threetory single family home. That's all he wants to do it. It's a it's an apartment three stories that's it. and which I would say um the aeronautics says that it has to be in the conditional determination and that's what we're going to follow.

Yeah. So here's the issue. It's a height issue. So what other option does he have besides going three stories? Cuz Andrew tell me correct. This is the bottom line. This is the issue that we're talking about. So there could be another design. I'm sorry. Apologize. Yeah.

Excuse me. Excuse me. So, so the overlay has two main requirements on on this. The the one requirement is the hard 35- ft height limit, but the other requirement is that you you are not allowed to um put residential units on non-residentially zoned properties. I I mean I hate to tell you this but Rosewood is full of of residential property I understand going down both sides.

So so that that is a restriction that that that we the city put put in there. Um there are non-residential zone properties industrial um EC closer to the airport and and so that is part of the reason um you know this certainly is further away. The other option that Mr. Kumar has is to request a reszoning to RM2 which is across the street that does um kind of break up the NAC corridor there. Um but but that that would be another option. It it would have a density limit on it. NAC does not have a density limit. So um as many units as can be fit on there would would would be allowed if if this overlay was removed. My suggestion to you, sir, would be we either are going to defer this, which it looks like it's going to get a denial based on these restrictions with aeronautics. There has to be a way to fix this because my suggestion is you would withdraw tonight. You get with our staff and you figure out the appropriate way that you can there there's a way to do something here. Uh, but I'm telling you the way it sits right now, what you're proposing is not not going to be allowed. And if we deny it, that means you can't come back here for a year, right? Not with the same request

with the same with Chris. So, two options. We can defer it, but you're going to have to refile anyway. Correct. to change a different um if if the to defer it doesn't require refiling, but if he wants to do a different request that would require a new application. Yes. I'm giving you a a better option to figure out something along with our staff that that could make sense for this because you're caught in a rock and a hard place here. [snorts]

So are we unfortunately. And you know, I'm be honest, I don't 100% agree with the fly pattern. This is way from the airport. I'm going to be honest with y'all. Um, and there's a million examples I could show in between, but we got to figure out something here for the future. Um, and understanding where the growth and everything's going as well. So, we need to have a conversation uh with the city. I would suggest, sir, that you you we can defer it and you can tell us at the next meeting what you want to do, but we're not going to vote on it tonight. We'll give you that. But if we do vote, it's going to be a denial.

But across the street, they got an approval also.

It may I said across the street, they got an approval also. across the street from 1700 Rosewood. They already got an approval of reasonzoning it or I would say getting out of this u sure I I can address that. Um Mr. Kumar is referring to the um property across South Pickin Street and that is the old eye of the cat property which was a residential structure. It it was reszoned from commercial to residential and actually also at the same time removed from the overlay. I think it was a couple years ago um [clears throat] that there the intent was to convert the property into a duplex which was a use that was not allowed in the district at the time.

So So that's that's a property at the northwest corner of South Pickins. What is that what is that zoned? It doesn't have right now it's zoned RM2. So it's a high so highdensity multif family. So, it's the same zoning district that would apply to um the portion of Rosewood Hills across Rosewood from from this property. Well, I think it's clear we're going to have to look at that history as well as clear it with our legal. So,

I think we defer the item and then and u let's get with staff and and and look at these items to make sure because we got there's a quandry here of decision making and you're going to need to be involved in those conversations. Is there a motion? Mayor, we did have one more individual. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, madam clerk. Miss Bri Barono and she may or may not wish to speak but I mean we can defer [clears throat] it.

Hi apologies. Um I went ahead and created a statement. It sounds like you guys are creating a path forward so I will not read the whole thing. Um but I just wanted to thank you for your time and consideration. My name is Brie Barono. I'm a senior aviation planner. So, this is what I do for work all day, every day. And I'm also the vice chairman of the Richland County Airport Commission, which is the advisory board for Jim Hamilton LBN's. Um, I'm speaking to you today on behalf of the chair and the other members of the commission. Um, the concern here is not with development in general. We are not opposed to the safe development of the community. Um, we just wanted to urge you to set the precedent that this development occurs in partnership with the pre-existing infrastructure and ordinances which include the airport overlay district which is there not only to protect the airport and the flying public but those of us on the ground and all of the community as well. Um, so as a resident of the community, aviation planning professional and uh vice chairman at the airport, I would just ask you to leave the overlay in place for the protection of our community so that we can find a better way forward in a partnership. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm sorry about that, Madame Clerk. I did not know we had three people signed up. All right, that's it. All right. So, we got to take a motion to defer. So, move. Second. Second. Motion in a second. Madam clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey. Hi. Mr. Brown. Hi. Dr. Bustles. I. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rickman. I.

Thank you. [laughter] Okay, the next item on the agenda is a text amendment and it is a request to amend the unifi development ordinance also known as a UDO um chapter 17 article 9 definitions and rules of measurement and it is to clarify the definitions of town home multifamily and two family dwellings and basically right Now, um, town homes, multif family and two family are defined as a building type, and it's nice in a way because it neatly aligns with the building code. However, our our UDO also provides um allowances and protections for duplexes, single family, and town homes that um are not in place for multif family. And likewise, there's also sometimes greater requirements. So for example, when we're talking about parking, if if one is developing a town home style multif family development, they're required to provide two parking spaces versus the 1.75 which is a standard for multifamily. And so what this would do and and there there's already some kind of guidance in the UDO already um is it would clarify that a town home is a um a unit built on an individual lot. Of course, it's a, you know, it's at least three units joined together on these smaller lots. And the same thing with a duplex is a duplex exists on an individual lot. And it would also [snorts] say that something that has three or more units on a single lot is multif family. So wouldn't eliminate any of these building types and people would still be able to do it, but it would clarify that when

when one is building multiple town homes on an individual lot that that is multif family. And so that the developers know what standards they have uh to develop to, but also it it it it basically um implements what actually the ordinance was asking for in the first place. So for example, a town home, the minimum lot size is 8,000 ft² to develop a town home development and then it does call for uh I believe it's uh 1,500t lots at a minimum. And and so um and and if one was going to do a I may be repeating myself here, but a multif family development that is town home style, that is certainly welcome, but then it it would just be developed according to multif family standards. Is there anybody here to speak for or against this uh amendment to our unified development ordinance?

No one has signed up. Council is any questions or concerns? I'll entertain a motion. Got a motion. Is there a second? Second. Second. Madam clerk, could you read the role? [clears throat] Mr. Bailey. Hi. Mr. Brown. Hi. Dr. Bussles. Hi. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rickman. I.

Okay. This next item is another text amendment and I will um not read through this um alphabet soup here but the the short version of it is this is a text amendment to again amend the unified um development ordinance and this is to um to [clears throat] set up the replacement for our current DDRC and this would establish two separate commissions. one would deal with historic properties and one would deal with properties that are within our design districts, including our new downtown Columbia um design district. And this is something that was a recommendation of the recent planning pro process. I will say that um if there's anybody to speak for or against this, you know, please come forward. But I will tell you that um this was stemmed out from a lot of community conversations over the years and separating the commercial from the historic neighborhoods uh was very important for uh a lot of folks in the community to to ensure that we're we're really having folks expertise in those areas. Madame clerk,

no one has signed up. Is there anybody to speak for against this item? I didn't think there would be, but um Mr. Mayor move. Is there a motion? Second. A motion and a second. Madame clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey. Yes. Mr. Brown. Yes. Dr. Bussles. Hi. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rick. Thank you. Thank you.

Yes. Okay. This next item is again a text amendment. This is a request to amend the unified development ordinance um to um establish short-term rentals as a use category within the UDO and to um establish and clarify related definitions and standards. And um so the the short version is that uh short-term rentals, we're we're taking the um essentially what is the existing definition from uh the city's current short-term rental standards which are in uh chapter 5 of the ordinance. And we're we're slightly modifying it to address some other uses that are already within the um the zoning ordinance, so to speak. And um this would allow short-term rentals within commercial districts, mixeduse districts, our employment campus district, and conditionally in residential districts. And the the the two conditions are that the short-term rental would be on a um a street that is classified as uh arterial and and I believe it's both minor and major arterial and andor a collector street within our comprehensive plan. And the second part of the criteria is that it be on a street containing four lanes for through lanes. And so these are lanes that continue the entire length of the block, not a turn lane, for example. Um, and of course the UDO would regulate the location of short-term rentals only. All the other standards are remain within chapter 5. And one other thing I did want to mention is in terms of um non-conformities, any lawfully

established short-term rental um would would still be permitted to um remain as a non-conforming use within the ordinance, a a provision that's already within our UDO and u you know until such time as it is abandoned. Um Madame Clerk, start the start the timer and start the list. Yes, sir. So that means we have a lot of people signed up to speak. We will remind all speakers that you have three minutes. Once you see the yellow blinking light, you have 30 seconds remaining and we ask that you would wrap up your comments. We will start off with Miss Katie Grubs.

Hello. Hey.

Um first to start, I just want to thank um Dr. Bustles and Miss Benjamin on your time at the city. your work that has, you know, gone into the city of Columbia has not been unnoticed. So, you've done a phenomenal job. But my name is Katie Grubs again. I live in Colombia and I own a single family home here, actually in Rosewood, ironically with near there actually. But I also work as a realtor in Colombia for homeowners. A lot of first-time homeowners looking for flexibility, families, small property owners just across the city in general. But I want to start by saying this clearly. Um, neighborhood concerns are real. No one wants constant noise. I know I don't. Unsafe behavior. No one wants that. We all agree with that. Or a revolving door of poorly managed rentals next to their home. Again, I know I don't. And I understand that. And I don't think anyone here is ignoring that reality. But I am here today because this proposal goes much further than addressing bad actors. It removes the flexibility for a lot of responsible homeowners and residents. Um, short-term rentals in Colombia aren't just used by investors. I work with a lot of investors and homeowners. You guys know that as well. But they are used by families coming in for USC graduations, movein weekends, visitors for football games, major events, military families attending Fort Jackson graduations, um, travel nurses, medical professionals on short assignments, so shorter than 30-day contracts, parents visiting students or recent graduates transitioning into jobs, etc. a lot of of major events and life changes that happen in the city. We already struggle with limited hotel capacity, especially during peak times. Anyone who's tried to book a place during a USC game weekend or graduation knows that. And now, especially with this um agreement in the Riverfront Walk expansion, I mean, the city's investing in infrastructure that increases visitation and desiraability.

I've lived in Greenville for many years before moving back here. I grew up here. I saw the effects that that swamp rabbit trail expansion had. But at the same time, you know, it's considering policies that would reduce flexible housing options. So, I do want to note that and I agree these two things do need to be discussed. But short-term rentals have helped fill that gap um without requiring new hotels to be built in residential neighborhoods. Again, as a homeowner myself in this area, the option to rent part of my home short-term, it does matter to me because I want to be able to, you know, know that I have that right to do that with my property. But not because I want to run a party house, but because of life changes. People rely on flexibility during job transitions, financial pressure, caring for family members, or simply to stay in their homes long term and have that flexibility and option. But this proposal would eliminate that option in most residential areas moving forward, even for responsible owner occupied situations. That's where I think we need to pause. I don't believe this has to be an all or nothing decision. Many cities have found middle ground through registration enforcement and clear standards rather than blanket zoning bans, but god policy usually lives in the middle, protecting neighborhoods while still respecting property rights in real life use cases. We're growing and growth comes with complexity. We're all seeing that firsthand, me as a realer, but also, you know, y'all on the council. So, I'm just asking that we slow this down and listen to homeowners and residents of the city.

Just just to land the plane on that, your your real point is about owner occupied flexibility. I just want to make sure

as someone who lives in Rosewood, again, a high demand short-term area. I understand, you know, what comes with short-term rentals. I've stayed with them all throughout the state in Greenville when I visited to go biking on the Swamp Rabbit Trail, you know, in USC when I didn't live here and I came back to visit family and friends. But I, you know, now that I'm an actual resident of Colombia and I I grew up here, too. Grew up Carolina fan, went to these games, you know, had friends and family visit it, stay in STRS. And so now it's it's, you know, directly affecting me. I don't want to have to sell my home because I'm losing the opportunity to, you know, use it for an STR if I choose to do that one day. So, yes,

but there's a different I just want to clarify. You're you want the flexibility as a homeowner, not down the road making it a secondary property. I just want to clarify the difference because there's a difference because by you can't rent it more than 70 days as a homeowner or it becomes a commercial taxable property. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, I just I wanted to make sure which way you if you were advocate you're advocating for everyone. So, yes, for everyone is who I'm advocating for, but definitely you know as a homeowner having the flexibility especially as you know someone who has do that does have rooms available that has the opportunity to do that. Thank you. You're welcome.

Thank [snorts] you guys.

Mr. Gus Gustavo Bueno. Good evening, Mayor Hickman and members of council. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I'm Gus. I moved to Colombia in 2020, and I'm also a short-term rental host. [clears throat] Uh, I'm not an outstate of millionaire or hedge fund manager. I'm an individual that is risking everything to build the life that the American dream has promised. And I'm here to respectfully ask the city council to revisit the ordinance that existed prior to the STR moratorum and allow it to operate with proper enforcement. I want to be very clear. This is not an argument against safety or neighborhood quality. Those goals are shared by everyone in this room. [snorts] The question is how we best achieve them. When the STR ordinance was adopted, the understanding was that hospitality tax revenue would support enforcement. In practice, enforcement capacity was never fully built out. [snorts] As a result, the ordinance was never truly tested. Today, there is no citywide data showing STRs are a systemic source of crime or disturbance. There are problem properties and those should be addressed directly but policy should be based on evidence not isolated incidents. [snorts] Colombia housing market today shows substantial active listings and normal days on market. So there is no shortage of properties to be bought by homeowners which suggest that STRs are not removing housing at scale or driving affordability issues. At the same time,

many local hosts rely on short-term rental income to offset rising costs from inflation, health challenges, or jobs disruption. These are not large investors. They are your constituents. I believe this council has consistently emphasized fairness, accountability, and datadriven decisions. Reinstating the prior ordinance, funding enforcement, and tracking real outcomes aligns with those principles far better than a blanket moratorum. I respectfully ask you to enforce the rules we already passed. Remove the bad actors and let the data, not assumptions, guide the next steps. So, thank you for your time and service to our city.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Yes, sir. Mr. J D Holiffield.

Hey guys, I'm JD Hollifffield and uh I own a a couple STRs and uh I don't really understand. I haven't followed the whole saga of what's gone on here. I've talked to some of my uh friends that have STRs as well and they've kind of kept me a little bit up to date. Um, but from my understanding of reading the existing ordinances, um, they seemed fair and, uh, pretty straightforward to me. A lot of people, if I tell them I own an Airbnb or something, they say like, oh my gosh, like, do people party in it? Like, you know, I don't know if I'd want that. I'm like, would have you ever rented one? I do. I have four kids and I can't stay in a hotel, right? Because if you have four kids, you're not going to like go to sleep with them right beside you, right? at 7:00 p.m. Um, so we rent those and we don't throw parties when we go on vacation. We put our kids to bed like a normal family and live it out. And most people I talk to once I tell them that, they're like, "Oh, yeah, that's absolutely right." And uh I forgot your name, but like she said, um [clears throat] you know, it's just a really good option for people that are traveling and for our investment properties. So, alongside that, I buy a lot of properties that are severely distressed and we make them into nice homes. Sometimes that uh cost a lot of money to get them up to the rate that we need to have them at. And that uh option to be able to make it an STR and make it a little bit nicer for that nicer area um allows us to spend more money, make it a better property, and for us to be able to generate a return. So, thank you for your time.

Thank you, sir. [cough and clears throat]

Laura Pinkley. Good evening. Uh, my name is Laurel Pinkley. My partner, Kelly, and I live at 11:06 Darlington Street, which is right next door to the short-term rental where a shooting occurred on November 15th. That night, the guests knocked on our door twice. once to let us know they were having a party and the second around 9:00 p.m. to ask us not to call and let them let them know if they're being too loud. By late evening, people were still being dropped off and packed into a 700 ft property. Uh police drove by once uh once us and other neighbors reported the party but didn't intervene. We tried to go to sleep anyway. Around 11:45, we woke up to yelling and trash cans being knocked over, then three gunshots just feet from where we sleep. We ran from our room and found the safest place we could and called 911. The first thing we did after was text our neighbors to make sure they were all safe. The next morning, we found broken items in our backyard from people jumping fences to escape. A magazine clip was found in the street and our neighbor found a loaded gun in their backyard, the same yard where their 5-year-old plays. I'm sharing this because neighborhoods are supposed to be communities. We moved to Earlwood because of the sense of connection, the feeling that people look out for one another. On our block alone, we already have three short-term rentals and another waiting for the moratorum to be lifted. And with each one, that sense of community feels a little thinner. The STR property has two units. The front an STR in the back has a studio with a long-term renter, a USC student who luckily was out of town that weekend. To our knowledge, he wasn't contacted by the property manager or owners after the shooting, but we did. Uh they didn't check on him. They didn't check on us, but we all as long-term neighbors came together in the days after to check on one another. That's what happens when a home becomes a business. There's no real stake in the community. What makes Columbia special is our neighborhoods. When we lose them, we lose what makes the city feel like home. I'm asking you not only to cap STRs, but strengthen

enforcement and end single night rentals. We can't sacrifice community and safety for businesses. Thank you for your time and considering the lived experiences of the residents you serve. Thank you. [applause]

Ethan Matthysse. Could you Ethan Matthysse? Ethan Matthysse.

Hello council. Um I [snorts] just wanted to point out the principles of the matter, right? that the if the purpose of government if there is any purpose at all is to protect the life, liberty and property of individuals, right? This ordinance is an infringement on all three on the liberty of people to use their property to help their life or better their life as they see fit. Right? Also, uh I think it's interesting that the the investments that the city of Columbia makes are not so much investments but a form of wealth distribution. Wealth distribution is also known as legal plunder. And in the words of Frederick Bastiot who wrote the law, when legal plunder becomes commonplace, what becomes what follows is what's known as rent seeking, which is the behavior to manipulate a policies in order to protect themselves from legal plunder or to engage in it. And he also said that when this becomes common place, what we will see is fighting at the door of the legislative palace, which is what this place seems to be. and the fight seems to be upon us. So with that, I would urge you to consider the principle of the matter, life, liberty, and property, and who you serve. Thank you,

David Bergman. [snorts]

Good evening, mayor, members of council. My name is David Bergman, Columbia small business owner and employer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this tonight. Uh this vote isn't about whether short-term rentals should be regulated. We have regulations and we put them in place and we strengthen them over the summer. Uh the question before us today is whether Colombia needs to go to this extreme with our zoning restrictions and whether that is right for all 145,000 residents of the city. In today's economy, many homeowners rely on flexibility to stay in their homes. Renting a spare bedroom, an in-law suite, an accessory dwelling. Those can be the difference between keeping up and falling behind. This proposal would remove that option for most residents unless they happen to live on a four-lane road, a very narrow and arbitrary standard. At the same time, this council speaks regularly about affordability. rightly so. We have housing pressures in our city removing income opportunities from residents. It's not a step in the right direction. These are our own residents trying to make ends meet in their own homes. And while there are many people in this room who probably don't need those options, they cannot and should not govern whether others have those tools at their disposal. Uh we also heard clearly from planning commission by a 5 to3 vote. They rejected this draft. This is your appointed land use advisory body telling this council that this is not the right approach for Colombia. Colombia already has a permitting system operating standards enforcement authority in place. And yes, enforcement could be better. And I've heard it's getting there. Uh earlier [snorts] this year, David Hatcher, director of code enforcement, stated that the primary challenge has been staffing, uh not the lack of rules, and we have not seen any data showing that

short-term rentals create more issues proportionally than long-term rentals. I keep asking for that. It is also important to note that this four-lane requirement was developed by zoning staff and I didn't see any engagement with the public on this and that may be why when we reviewed nearly every short-term rental zoning ordinance in the country, we couldn't identify another city where this approach has been tested and shown to work. Meanwhile, the public and many of your constituents have come forward with a reasonable alternative that has already been tested and shown to work throughout the state. A CATbased system is a market system that controls density, protects neighborhoods, and preserves homeowner flexibility. It is used in North Charleston, Mount Pleasant, Bufort, Folly Beach, and it can be written directly into our existing ordinance. And it was actually already there.

[snorts] It was included in our original draft and supported by many on this council and neighborhood leaders. I would like to respectfully ask that we vote no to a zoning based prohibition that goes further than necessary and let's just explore common sense solutions that have worked in other areas of our state to protect neighborhoods while also preserving reasonable options for our residents.

Thank you, sir. Matt Carol. [snorts] Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of City Council. My name is Matt Carroll. Uh, I'm been asked to speak tonight on behalf of the Central Carolina Realtors Association. We at the CC respectfully oppose the proposed amendment to the unified development ordinance regulating short-term rentals. We understand the desire to address neighborhood concerns. Uh but this ordinance goes beyond regulation and instead reduces property rights for many uh homeowners by far too much. By limiting short-term rentals in residential areas based on street classification rather than zoning, the proposal creates unequal rights among similar properties and adds uncertainty to long-standing investment properties. We're especially concerned that many current uh lawful short-term rentals will be non-conforming uses that changes the uh uh reduces the property value and complicates financing. Um it uh transferability and undermines confidence in the stability of local land use policy. Responsible homeowners who have complied with existing city requirements should not fa face diminished rights due to a broad policy shift. The realtor association supports balanced solutions and protect neighborhoods while preserving homeowners property rights and housing choices. We believe stronger enforcement of existing standards and targeted solutions are achievable and much more effective than broad zoning restrictions. We respectfully urge council to reject this proposal as written and and examine stricter enforcement of existing standards um while working with constituents. Uh thank you for your time and consideration. So that is a that was that was a statement from the CC. Um individually I've spoken before uh and

just have a couple other points to make individually separately from this from the CC. Um I currently own zero short-term rentals. I owned 12 at one point. It was a business decision I made to change and that was because of, you know, markets and things like that. I I had the ability to do that as an individual. Um, I will tell you that I've received multiple phone calls from people because those short-term rentals have now turned into long-term rentals. Um, the neighbors around my long-term rentals now have called and asked that I make them back into short-term rentals. Um, the short-term rentals, there's review requirements. Nobody wants to get bad reviews on a short-term rental. Um, I [clears throat] very rare. Someone earlier mentioned that there's parties and short-term rentals. It's very, very rare. People wouldn't do it if there were parties all the time. However, I have long-term rentals that are college rentals. There's parties in those all the time. Um, if you get a you get a year of a a bad long-term tenant, it's tough. You might get a bad short-term tenant for a weekend and then they move they're on to the next one and you you get good the rest of the year hopefully. Um, the other thing that I think has not been considered is local families displaced by fire or flood or domestic violence or any of those things. Taking their family and having a short-term place to go while their kitchen's renovated after a fire or something like that. It's very hard to move into a hotel for that time period. I hear all night I've been I've been listening to all the developments, Finley Park and the river district and all these things, the airport, and it's such progress for our city. And this just feels like a step backwards in the face of all this progress. all the visitors and all the things coming to our town. Eliminating this really limits their places to go. Thank you for your time.

Thank you,

Anna Haron. Hello. Um, sorry. Uh, so I just want to talk about a few years ago when I was a young adult moving from apartment to apartment. I had a couple weeks in between um my apartment leases and I found a lady with her children that owned a home and she let me use one of her um her rooms for I think it was like 5 days in between, you know, my my apartment leases. So this would uh this ordinance would give me fewer or people like me fewer options um doing that. So, I also want to say that if you want to protect your own neighborhoods, form an HOA. Those are like mere mini governments except they're voluntary. Um, so you can put those like banan, you know, STRs in the bylaws. Um, that's just an idea. Um, and I also wanted to share a story from my friend Zoe Owens. Um, she has a long history of providing strangers a place to live temporarily in her own home. And she says, "We do not make a lot of money sharing our property. And when the city forces forced us to get a business license, we felt it was highly immoral and unethical for them to force us to do that. We did get we did get a license even though we did not feel it was any business of the city who we were sharing with or helping out. [snorts] The amount of money we received does not even come close to the expenses we pay for our property. Personal hospitality and sharing our property should not be considered a tax liability or business. We already pay about a a thousand a year for taxes to own our property. Once the government took our uh took over and made us get a business license, we now have to pay around 4,000 a year to justifi just to satisfy the government to share a home. We take in many USC students, Fort Jackson graduates, and homeless families. The Airbnb app helps people who have property find people to

share their property with. It does not make home dwellers, business people, nor homes business property. Unless, of course, you are like me and were forced into this situation by the government. Shelterless and dormless USC students find my homes and uh homes on the Airbnb Airbnb app. I understand that many USC students actually live in their cars. January 2025, I sheltered a couple and their four children in my home for my home that I've had for 30 years. Instead of putting extra burdens on people who steward their own property and make private agreements with people who need to share that property, the city of Columbia should be blessing the hospitality of people willing to make the sacrifices to bring others into their homes. The short-term trades we make by sharing [snorts] our property should be blessed and commended by those in government authority who would not ever think to share what they own. I feel great regret that my ministry of hospitality has been forced to be called a business. And now, not only do I have to pay so much more to have a home, but my city wants to take over everything about it. In the Bible, it take talks about Sodom and Gomorrah. Those cities main sin was not being hospitable. When people came through those cities, no one took them in and they were sodomized. Often they were killed. Colombia wants to punish the hospitable. Are you going to love your neighbors and even the strangers by not putting extra burdens on people or are you going to be, you know, like that? So, [laughter] thank you.

Thank you. Jim Prader, Mr. Mayor and city council. U I want to start by thanking all of you because I know the amount of time you've put in to uh to this issue over the last several months uh and your willingness to handle midnight phone calls and uh long community meetings and uh meetings with neighborhood groups. So, I appreciate the effort you've put into getting us to this point and I want to support where you are uh currently, but I have two recommendations um as we move forward. One is that we need to develop a strategy to uh remove STRs from residential neighborhoods at a faster rate than is currently in the ordinance. The other is that I would ask you to uh ask South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson to get involved in the matter of addressing the um Airbnb and all of the other organizations like that that are currently involved in um in this issue. um because obviously those organizations don't have compliance with local ordinances and regulations as a part of their process for enrolling um people in their organizations. Um and very shortly in January, we'll bring you forward examples in our own city of uh of that issue. So, I would ask you to uh because I'm sure that's a

statewide issue. [laughter] Um, and and so I think that's best addressed uh at his level rather than the city of Colombia having to deal with that on its own. But again, I support where we are and I appreciate the effort that you've uh put into the matter to this point. Thank you for your efforts. Thank you, Madame Clerk. Whitney Denton.

Whitney, you here? There. There she is. Hi. [cough] [snorts] [clears throat] Good evening, Mayor Council. Thank you for allowing us to speak this evening. I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate because I see both sides of this argument. As a resident in a community, we have the right to quiet enjoyment of our homes, whether it's a short-term rental or a long-term rental. I can tell you what it feels like to have a slum lord rental next to you. I could actually call out a nonprofit that provides housing at low rates that's probably one of the worst slum lords of single family dwellings, the housing authority. Um, but I digress. If a neighborhood wants to speak about shootings of short-term rentals, Rosewood was one of the first to be impacted by a shooting. We were told it was an isolated incident.

[snorts]

the investment properties are causing reassessment rates of our homes to go up. And if we don't know as owners how to fight the reassessment, so we're not being reassessed on our property taxes based on our neighbors investment properties. [snorts] We're priced out of our own homes. even with your owner occupied tax rate. I actually fought mine last year and I won because my home facts were wrong and mine was being tax based on a recent sale across the street. But I know how to fight that. But I don't agree with how far we're going in the opposite direction on potentially restricting the short terms. None of us want government in our daily lives dictating how we can invest. But at the same time, we've got to meet somewhere in the middle for neighborhoods for good short-term rental investors and operators. I have a short-term rental three houses across from me. We've had parties. We had one night where it was a raceway of Dodge vehicles up and down the road till 3:00 in the morning. Who do you call for that? There's no way to contact them. They're out of California. Both of the ones on my road are not local. So, we do have some things we need to address. No one should hit the floor in their home in the middle of the night. And I've dealt with that from a slum lord next door. I should not sleep through gunfire. So, as a whole, we have a lot of concerns we need to think about. This is not just about STRs. There is a lot more at play. We can tweak the UDO

because we've seen it done this evening in regards to town home definitions. This is something we can change, but we need to meet in the middle. Thank you. Thank you, [applause] madam clerk. Yes, sir. We have Meg Sims.

[clears throat]

Good evening, Mr. Mayor and City Council. First, I want to tell Dr. Busles, thank you so much for your service. We'll miss you. And I also want to thank you for your quick response on the morning of November 15th, sorry, November 16th after the shooting when we found so many spent shell casings, loaded guns, so on and so forth um up and down the street on Darlington Street. You are a consmate neighbor. Again, good evening. My name is Meg Southern Sims. I own my home at 3118 Gadston Street in Earlwood and I'm currently serving as the president of Echo, the Earlwood Community Citizens Organization. Founded in 1977, ECHKO is one of the first neighborhood associations in Colombia. This all volunteer group of Earlwood residents serves to maintain and improve the quality of life, residential character, safety, and sense of community and pride in the Earlwood neighborhood. [snorts] As this council endeavors to always make in datainformed decisions, allow me to provide you with some key data points about short-term rentals in Earlwood. Currently, there are at least at least 68 short-term rentals operating in Earlwood, which represents about 5% of our total housing stock. Only 53 of those are permitted with the city. 60, that's 88% are nonowner occupied. Roughly 28% are operated by the same non-resident company. In preparation for this council meeting, Echko conducted a survey of Earlwood residents and non-resident property owners via our e newswsletter and private Facebook group. [laughter] 65% of the survey respondents believe short-term rentals have a net negative impact on our neighborhood and 70% support restricting new short-term rentals in residentially zoned areas. 58% of survey respondents believe existing permitted short-term rentals in good standing should be allowed to

continue operating. Survey respondents shared concerns about the detrimental impact short-term rentals have on affordability and availability of housing units in our neighborhood and short-term rental owner operators minimal engagement as in only one of them engages meaningfully with the Earlwood community. In keeping with the majority of our Earlwood neighbors and many other downtown residents, Ekko believes that unchecked short-term rental growth will erode the strength and character of our community. The proposed amendment before you prevents the proliferation of SDRs from engulfing downtown neighborhoods without penalizing existing short-term rental owner operators in good standing. We urge you to approve the amendment as proposed and help us protect the neighborhoods that make Colombia a vibrant place to work, live, and play. Thank you.

Thank you, [applause]

Denise Wilman. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to be in front of you today, mayor and city council. I'm Denise Wellman, the president of Cotton Town. I know we've had lots of conversations over the last few months about this whole project, uh, or not project, but this whole situation. Um, I think that I want to first thank you so much for the time that you and the staff have spent looking at this subject. Um, I I'm appreciative of the language that was placed in the document that short-term rentals mean that they're they are more of a visitor accommodation than a household living. Um, and I think that's really important for us to keep in mind that these accommodate visitors um, and that have no real stake, as someone earlier said, in our neighborhoods. They are transitory. And while there are lots of reasons why short-term rentals might be valuable, the transitory nature of nature of these visitors in our neighborhoods affects the the culture affects our ability to do things. Someone mentioned earlier that, you know, if you don't want short-term rentals, then become an HOA. That's not an option for our downtown neighborhoods that are flooded with short-term rentals. So that's not a reasonable solution for us to come up with. We're looking to you to help us find a way to maintain the culture of

our neighborhoods. And while we could be talking about this for many, many more weeks, this at least is an opportunity for us to come up with a way that limits their presence in our neighborhood, that stops the growth in our neighborhood. We're not preventing those that are in the neighborhoods from being there, provided that they are legally there. And Cottontown has some in our neighborhood that are not legal as well. So, we ask that you do put something in place that is going to help protect our neighborhoods. Enforcement that a lot of people talk about is not the answer here. Enforcement only helps you after the harm has already been done. So the ordinance that is dealing with the enforcement which is different than what's in front of us today is is an an aftere effect and you're coming to an enforcement piece only after the harm has already been done to the neighborhoods. And we would ask you to put some steps in place that can be far more pro proactive and take care of the neighborhoods that really do have a positive impact on our city. and we thank you again for all the time you've put into this.

Thank you, [applause]

Brent De Brent. All right. I didn't [clears throat] see you moving. [laughter]

Good uh good evening, uh mayor and city council. My name is Brent De's. That's why I didn't respond at first, but I am an Earl resident. I live next to two short-term rentals at the moment. And my greatest grief with the short-term rental as a concept is more along the lines of unoccupied short-term rentals. I believe that there is a great use and a great uh purpose for owner occupied short-term rentals as a useful tool for rent for renting out to people that need help in a short-term capacity. But unoccupied short-term rentals just don't flow with the community very well. I watched my community go from or my neighborhood going from having two [clears throat] neighbors, all one I didn't really talk to all that much. He wasn't the best neighbor, but going from being able to hang out with neighbors to just seeing cars come in and come out all the time. And functionally to me, this looks like a hotel that was allowed to exist in single family neighborhoods. And something about that needs to be at least revised a little bit to help out. We have declining school enrollment in a couple of our uh local school districts. And if [snorts] families cannot find a starter home downtown to live, they will go to the suburbs and they will not come back. And we need to put in uh put in play good housing policies that affirm people's ability to [snorts] have uh owner occupied short-term rentals and not be restricted from that. but also affirm people's ability to own their own home and to be able to raise children and live in this great city. And so I would like to recommend that we look, this is probably outside the scope of this meeting in particular, but I would like to look at the idea of taxing the short-term rentals like hotels or like more of a financial product than what they currently are.

Um, to me, the issue overall is not short-term rentals are gobbling up homes. It's more so that we do not have enough homes in general. And there are many uh empty lots in my [clears throat] neighborhood that are just not being built upon. And I'd love to see the city take a look at what it takes to take those empty lots, remove whatever uh maybe meaningless restrictions on them in terms of zoning or ordinances or whatever and to allow them to get into hands that will actually want to build on them and to bring neighbors into the neighborhood and support our local schools, restaurants, and establishments. Thank you all. Thank you. [applause]

Ed Fleshman Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Council, evening. How you doing? [clears throat]

My name is Ed Fleshman. I live in Shandon. The problem I have with this ordinance is twofold. It is government overreach at the highest levels. Although I don't personally own a short-term rentals, and I really don't want one next door, I strongly believe that one should be able to utilize their property as they wish as long as it is reasonable. If there's an issue where someone is not considered something is not considered reasonable, then there are remedies available to pursue civil or other actions. This ordinance paints with a very broad brush for what seems to be a few few highly publicized incidents that have created a knee-jerk reaction. [gasps] Number two, we have a problem in the city that we don't enforce ordinances we already have. I'm holding my my hand five cases have been reported as rental property with no permit all within the la a couple blocks of my house. last winter, over a year ago, almost two years ago, over two years ago, and over three years ago. The city indicates on the code enforcement rental property viewing page that data is updated weekly. That's hardly the case. I know for a fact that one of these is a separate unit from a single family residence on the property, which is zone SF2. It is my understanding that this detached separate unit is not grandfathered in as a rental. It should not be occupied as either a long-term or short-term. My point is that if violations are not being addressed, then basically it's just the people who break who don't break the rules that are affected. New ordinances are going to be the same old same old. I respectfully ask the city current enforce the current rules rather than implement new ones that further erode citizens property rights.

Thank you. Thank you,

Kathy Brookshshire. Kathy Brookshshire, Mr. Mayor and council members, thank you so much uh for this evening and for your work all year long. We all appreciate it. Um we live in a very exciting time right now in Columbia, South Carolina. um in uh Bull Street. We're getting this wonderful new University of South Carolina Medical School. It's going to bring all kinds of fabulous people to Colombia to work and live here. Um we also have in addition to that, I heard a brand new hotel, a boutique hotel, another one is going to be built in downtown Colombia. And that's great, too, because our downtown is fabulous. It offers all sorts of accommodations for people. People with children, people with pets, people who are here to celebrate anniversaries, to celebrate graduations. Those hotels are there to serve those people. The people who work there, and they work there all night long, all during the day, are trained and well capable of taking care of any issues that happen on those properties. That's why they're hotels and not somebody's house. Um, I would urge that, uh, the council please consider this wonderful amendment and keep it in place. Um, STR owners, uh, as we sadly know, are not equipped to handle the serious problems that can and do occur in hotels and in

their homes. So, I urge you to keep the moratorum in uh, and not allow more uh, SDRs to be built. Um, in case you haven't noticed, I am an older person and I live in Elwood Park. I moved there from Irmo because I wanted to be a part of a dynamic city and at the same time be a member of a dynamic neighborhood. And I have found both in the 10 years that I've been here in downtown Colombia. I have discovered neighbors who will pick up my packages when I can't. When my dog escapes, they know my dog and they help me find my dog. I do the same thing for them, for their children who come up and down my street going to Logan Elementary. Um, it's as a neighbor that when a child falls and gets hurt, I can be there and say, "I know your mom. This is who I am. Let's call your mom. Tell her I'm here and we're going to get a band-aid for you and fix you up." Um, short-term renters don't do that. They can't, but they can go and support our downtown businesses, our hotels, and our restaurants. Thank you very much, and uh have a good evening.

Thank you, [applause]

Lyn and Fred Leech. Good evening. Um, Mr. Mayor, Council, thank you for having me. My name is Lynn Leech. Um, my husband and I have been short-term rental owners for about 12 years. Um, about four and a half of those here in Colombia. When we moved to Colombia, they were just starting to talk about rules um, involving short-term rentals. I'm very much in favor of the current rules that we have. We need to let our neighbors know that we're doing this. make sure they have our contact info. We have to provide information about parking. We want to be good neighbors. We really do. Um I think that Airbnbs are quite different from hotels. A lot of our guests are coming here because they're moving to the area and I think we're going to see more of that as Scout Motors um starts to come in into um play. So, we get people who come in and they love being in a residential area to be able to experience what Colombia is like outside of downtown. Nothing against downtown, but we do find that people enjoy having a full kitchen, having a washer and dryer, things like that when they're in transition. So, these are not people who are just passing through. Um, so these are people who are looking to become part of the community. I'm not saying that's everybody we get by a long shot, but we do get a lot of those. We also meet a lot of our guests. We've had lunch and drinks and dinner with guests. We've had guests over to our house. So, I just think that the Airbnb experience is very different from a hotel and I think we should encourage it in a responsible manner. Thank you.

Thank you, [applause] Jeffrey Williams. [snorts] Jeffrey going once, going twice. Next, Sher looks like Betts. Sher with um Hartwood [clears throat] FH.

She left. Noni, Mr. Mayor, City Council, my name is Noanka Senor Rutna and I'm also on the board of Echo, but I come here as a concerned citizen. After I returned to Columbia, I was overjoyed to find a perfect house on the 1100 block of Darlington Street with a vibrant community, many of whom are here. At least I thought it was perfect until November 14th when me and Laurel let me know there was a shooting that occurred at the illegal Airbnb across the street from me. I'd note that when I returned home after the a week after the shooting, I also found two shell casings in my front yard that the investigative unit did not undercover, did not uncover. Thankfully, I was out of town that night or else my girlfriend and her son would have witnessed the shooting, which have made my campaign for them to move to Columbia rather than me move to the upstate that much harder. [snorts] I'm a supporter of people's rights to do what they will with their property as long as they respect rules and regulations. I stand here quite disappointed that the night of the shooting there were three three clear violations that if addressed earlier could have prevented that night's tragedy. The first is the STR was an illegal one. The second was that it was rented out to high schoolers for a party. And the third is that the police did not break up the party when called to their attention. I don't know about y'all, but when I was a dreer in the late '9s, if the cops showed up, the party ended. My concern with the amendment is that it does not sufficiently address the issue of illegal STRs. In my mind, adequate re adequate regulation would comp contain robust sanctions for those who operate STRs illegally, essentially finding them into compliance. As a society, we should strive for one in which rules and regulations are adhered to and not one where people act with impunity. I would hope that those who advocate for STRs would also support getting rid of malifactors and I hope that you on the council would do the same.

Thank you. [applause]

Brad Swinson. Good evening. My name is Brad Swinson. I reside at 7716 Leighton Road and I'm here today representing over 20 short-term rental owners as the property manager. I'm the owner and operator of PMI Soda City. This moratorium was based on an emotional decision and tragic event. We've heard in the past and today tonight from certain neighborhoods how an entire industry in Colombia should be shut down because they say so. Should there be compromise? Yes. Are they willing to? No. What I hear from them saying is that the order to reduce gun violence in Colombia ban short-term rentals. We all know there is no correlation. According to 2024 FBI statistics, there are only 46 cities in the United States that are more dangerous than Colombia when it comes to violent crimes, which bring to the point that this is not a short-term rental issue. According to the Columbia PD website, there were 770 reported shootings last year. 770. That was a 54% reduction from 2023. Let's say the CPD reduces it another 54%. That is 1,186 shootings and less than 0.002% have occurred at a short-term rental. Thanksgiving night, there was a murder at a residence in the 29203 zip code a mile away from Elwood Park neighborhood. Where's [snorts] the outrage for this death? because it's not happening in their backyard. They don't care. In addition, SDRs not being the issue of violent crimes, they are also not the majority of code violations. According

to code enforcement, over 10,000 code violations have occurred in the past year. Only 186 violations have been STRs. 0.02%. Of those 186, 80 of them were roll cart violations. There's an older gentleman that roams around the Rosewood community and only cause code enforcement for STR violations. On a personal note, I have a long-term rental right next door operated out of Ohio. Guess what? I see the tenant go at at daily and meet his drug dealer to do a transaction and then walk in. I have a 5-year-old daughter. I urge the council to consider the following actions that are researched based on reducing issues. One, limit the number of STRs to percentage of the number of homes in the neighborhood. Two, no reservations can be instantly booked within 24 hours of check-in date. Three, in the host house rules, there must be a provision stating that if the booker is a local phone number and there are suspicious activities leading up to the check-in, the host can cancel penalty-free. Four, tougher penalties for current violators of exceeding the occupancy limit. Five, if neighborhoods want to ban STRs, that should be done by their HOA. To summarize, a few citizens who have a personal vendetta against STR owners should not get to decide what an entire city of homeowners should do with their property. In addition to those false narratives that STRs are the issue, small small businesses like mine support other local businesses. In the past 12 months, I paid out $148,000

to housekeepers, laundry professionals, electricians, plumbers, HVAC companies, and handymen. The proposed regulation on STRs will have a serious economic consequences for the $90 million short-term rental industry in Colombia and have a negative impact on small business. Let's [snorts] use logical common sense regulations based on facts, not fear-mongering based emotions.

Mr. Mayor, just very briefly, um the gentleman who was killed on Thanksgiving night, he was a volunteer uh baseball coach with the King Park Dodgers, my son's team. Good man. and just out of respect for his family. I want to want to wish him his family um a good holiday after hearing about it again. I appreciate you bringing it up. Carol Wright. Carol Wright.

Good evening, members of the council. Um this is certainly a very complex issue and I do not envy the work that you have before you and um I'm here today simply to share my personal experience. That's all I have to offer you. As an STR um owner operator for 10 years, I've had a good experience. So, have prepared a statement to highlight how renting short-term has benefited me personally and I think the community and um that this new ordinance would prevent going forward. So, my name is Carol Wright and I do live in Erland and I have been renting um with a certain model that I would like to share with you today. Um they're not the primary use of my properties, but rather a tool that supports their sustainability. I operate short-term rentals in three contexts currently. my primary residence, a long-term single family rental, which is also in Earlwood, and a commercial office property in Arsenal Hill. Each of these um the income from the short-term rental helps to support the larger intended use of the property. Renting from my own home in particular provided critical economic stability during a period of personal hardship. It also allowed me to rent affordably to a father who wanted to live in Earlwood so he could walk his daughter to school each day. This is one example of how flexible STRUS can create positive community centered outcomes including access to more affordable housing. Um, I have shared my story with you

before and I'm speaking again today because of the zoning item and in my view it does not adequately represent the full range of voices and experiences involved in this issue and as proposed these restrictions would eliminate an important economic opportunity for residents like me who personally use short-term rentals as means of supporting of support during hardship. ship and as a way to create unique beneficial housing arrange arrangements. So I respectfully ask that you do not vote in favor of this zoning restriction.

Now you your your issue is about homeowners being able to to rent their bedroom or rent their house for the 72 days that they're allowed to by law. Um yes, I live in my house and I rent out rooms. you are owner occupied but your concern is that the restrictions will keep you from renting for to create income for for that period

definitely and also now I have a a single f family residence that I have a long-term rental but I would not be able to sustain the property and rent to him at an affordable price without the income of the short-term rental. So that is a unique situation that I present to you. I don't know. Um, that's just my reality. So, and a way I've utilized short-term rentals to benefit the community, I hope. Thank you. Thank you, Susan James. You good, Miss James? [clears throat]

Thank you, John Baines. Thank you. Next we have James Harmon. Thank you. Briana McDow.

Good evening, Mayor uh City Council. I'm Brianna McDow. My husband and I own rentals but not STR at the moment. We have used STRs in the past and even have one booked for January. I've used it to host out of town family coming in in which I did not have the space for it in my own residence. Uh these are the type of situations in which we use STRs uh to get that hometown feel uh and that a hotel can't provide. We are for and support regulation, but this regulation appears to be a knee-jerk reaction instead of a wellthoughtout plan. Uh [snorts] much like other people said, it's not all just people going for partying. I pulled up from uh roomies.com and another site uh roommates.com in which uh this particular one Wendy 57year-old acupuncturist is coming to Colombia for a short-term stint and she has a dog. She doesn't want to be in a a hotel. There's Angela Green. She's 57 years old, retired, looking specifically in a um a specific community uh because she wants it until her 15-year-old daughter is uh graduating next year. To me, that screams a potential divorce that she might be going through if this happened, you know, less than a 30 days. You know, she would be in the same predicament in which she wants to keep her kid in that school d uh school district until that that year is done and then move on to a new one. Uh so like many people saying this this isn't just for people coming in it's for people displaced for various reasons. Thank you.

Thank you [applause] Amanda Paluso.

Sure.

You might as well get up and exercise a little bit while you're here. Thanks again for your time and your patience and your listening. Uh, this is Amanda's statement. Good afternoon, mayor and members of council. My name is Amanda Paluso. I'm a Colombian native, a local real estate agent, and a local real estate investor. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. [snorts] While short-term rentals have become an emotional topic, this decision ultimately comes down to property rights and economic reality. Many local homeowners and investors rely on these properties to meet mortgage tax and insurance obligations. The proposal before you goes well beyond reasonable regulation. A zoning based ban that removes short-term rentals from most residential areas significantly limits the ability of local owners to earn a return on investments made under the city's existing rules. These [snorts] are not speculative purchases. They are long-term commitments made in good faith. Several council members ran on platforms that included supporting short-term rentals and working together to find balanced solutions. In that context, this proposal represents a sharp shift away from those commitments. I [snorts] respectfully urge you not to advance a measure of this scope. Colombia uh can protect neighborhoods without undermining property rights or placing undue financial strain on local owners and investors. A balanced middle ground solution is available and I hope this council I hope this council will choose that path. [snorts] I ask if when you are vacationing if you stay in beach houses or mountain houses. If you do, then I I suggest that you vote no. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. All right, moving right along. We have Miss Lynn. Is it Shenley? Shirley. Lyn Shirley. Mr. Lynn Shirley. Okay, gotcha. [laughter] No phones, no notes. It's either going to be short, incoherent, or both. [laughter] We'll take all of the above at this point.

And I wish Dr. Brussels was here for this because I see a little bit of uh similarity between what we know as a food desert, an area where economic conditions will not support a grocery store. I think in especially the neighborhoods that are [clears throat] adjacent to our thriving center city and the university, what we are coming up on are areas which will not support single family residential. Part of it are STRs. Part of it are long-term rentals. Part of it is a university that's grown beyond leaps and bounds. A lot of is the traffic it adds because of our entertainment districts. But I think we've lost one inner city neighborhood is being desirable for single family residential. And I fear that my neighborhood and others that are adjacent are going to be next. It's part of a mix of allowing economic activity but also providing a place where families want to live even if you're a single person as a family. So consider that long-term tipping point that we may be reaching as we look at some of these policy. Thanks for your time and patience.

Thank you [applause]

Jason Brinkus. I'm here to talk about the uh STRs, but what I have to say is actually can be applied more broadly to central planning. Um, I've been trying to make sense of some of these zoning uh, arguments that have been made tonight, specifically the Rosewood property and some of the other arguments that have been made. And the fact [snorts] is I I can't. And the reason why I can't is because nobody can. I I don't know how many people are familiar with the uh Nobel Prize winning economics uh uh economist um Frederick Hayek, but he demonstrated demonstrably that um central planning doesn't work because there's a knowledge problem. There's nobody on this council that knows the optimal place to place a uh pizza parlor or bakery or a um auto repair center or a house. um you just don't have that knowledge. In fact, not even the entrepreneurs who uh engage in the economic process, not even they know. Um the difference between the uh entrepreneurs and this council is that they actually risk. The people that you have heard here tonight are those entrepreneurs that have engaged in that risk. Um there's only one way um to allocate scarce resources in the land would be that scarce resource in this case um and that's price. The people who are willing to pay the most price um know how best to use those resources. Um and if they don't then they will fail and those resources will be freed up for

others. And I have one uh dirty little word to use. That is capitalism. I suggest that uh we might want to try it. [applause] I don't know if I'd be clapping about that one. Griffin.

Hey just jumped. Um, okay. Uh, first of all, um, I absolutely want to acknowledge that gun violence is horrific. Um, my community, I'm Jewish. We has experienced a horrific gun violence tragedy this last week. Ma'am, I know you want to talk to everybody else, but I need you to talk to the mic because this is being live stream and recorded. Thank you.

Happy to. Um, so I definitely don't want to underscore how important it is that all people feel safe in their communities. Um, but I I'm kind of a sort of short-term rental success story. My, um, I've bought my house on West Confederate before it was West Confederate. Um, it was a foreclosure. It wasn't even cool to live downtown then. Um, but I love my community. I love having for the last 10 years I've had exchange students, travel nurses. Um, I've experienced people from all over the world and it's been incredible and I've enjoyed it. They participate in the community. They go and eat at my restaurants. Like Warmouth is everyone's favorite. [laughter] And um, they often engage in the community regularly. Um, also I I these tragedies are horrific, but we didn't exactly ban Uber after we experienced a tragedy either. So, um, I agree that there needs to be rules. People need to be following them. And, um, yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say.

Thank you. Thanks, y'all. But, yeah. I'm sorry. I Cam Franklin. [snorts]

Good evening. I've lost my voice. [laughter] Shouldn't have been yelling in the back row so much. I had remarks. You want to You want to email them to us? Is that okay? Yeah. [laughter] As a as a small business owner who works in the short-term rental space, I urge you to vote no to this because [laughter] I believe that there are benefits on both sides and I believe this is not the best solution we could have for the growth and for our communities going forward. Thank you.

Thank you. Please send us your comments because I know you had more than that. Thank you, [applause] Matt Varnner.

It is. It's what we do.

Hey, council. Uh, happy holidays, everybody. Uh, mayor. Um, I'll be brief to avoid repetition and to extend this any further. Um, I live downtown in a, uh, historical neighborhood, Arsenal Hill, across the road. Uh, quickly just say that I think there needs to be more work on this before we approve it as is. Obviously on both sides are friends and neighbors of mine, and it's this there's disagreement on the best way to to get what we all want to achieve. Um, those of us in Arsenal have some short-term rentals that we use to basically control a a transitional neighborhood and also of course the points been made to generate some extra income for us. But, um, there needs to be some things to address the the safety problems and the preserve the what is one of Columbia's best assets is our downtown neighborhood. So, I urge you to reconsider. The way it is in its present form is extreme and let's find a a winning solution for everyone. Thank you, Matt.

Um, mayor, someone signed up and I do not want to risk totally butchering his or her name, but it starts with a WI, maybe G or Q. Sounds familiar? Anyone? We will move on. If not, we ei starts with wei. All right. Thank you. K. Moore. K. Moore. Are you here to speak on STRS? You're No, you're not. Okay.

Okay. And that um [clears throat] would end the list of individuals who signed up to speak on STRs. Okay. All right. So, and mayor, I know you're good at doing this. I don't know if anyone else has remarks. Wow. That's what I was about to ask. Thank you. Is there anyone else um who'd like to speak for or against um the proposed? Please come to the podium, sir. State your name for the record.

Um my name is Paul Micho. I'm at 3101 Gadston Street. That's in Earlwood. And uh I just wanted to share my experience with uh Airbnbs or short-term rentals. And it started uh at the master's degree at College of Charleston. I my unit was changed from a long-term rental to short-term. So I had to move out to John's Island. Um and then I just wanted to say that I feel like this this actually does a pretty good job. Like if you look at Savannah, uh Airbnb loves their policies and ours are very similar to that or or this proposal is. So I I think that this is a good proposal and it works pretty well. But [cough and clears throat] yeah, let me think. I think that uh we do have to be kind of cautious with this commercial element in our neighborhoods. Uh it seems like there's kind of a social fabric that the Airbnbs start to kind of poke holes in. And uh I I really like Earlwood. I grew I grew up in Colombia and I kind of always wanted to live there. So I feel very fortunate to be there. Um and I think that right now the owners like they're not going to lose their place. Like they're they're fighting to have like more Airbnbs. Uh but maybe we're at a threshold where at least in the middle and I mean they can't get more along, you know, the the busier roads and stuff. So yeah, I think this is a this is a good proposal and that it does a lot to to work towards what we want. And I I thank staff and everybody that put time into it. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] All right. Have we heard from Come on down. The price is right. You don't get to spin the wheel, but you get three minutes.

Okay. I only had one thing to say about the short terminal. Yes, ma'am. Uh why don't we have Seagull Suites built instead? Well, I'm sorry. I could Seagull Suites the uh hotel converted into apartment homes on Greystone Boulevard. It used to be long-term basically for parents that come for parent weekend. They'd rent a hotel room and it was like big shaped like a house or apartment. You talking about Embassy Suites? No, no, no, not that one. It's Seagull Apartment Suites across.

They changed the name recently, but it's Seagull Select um apartment homes now. And it used to be an apartment. It used to be a hotel. And the parents for parents weekend would come down and they'd be there, but because we have so much corporate greed in Colombia, people are getting evicted out of their homes, moving to Seagull Select, and using it as a temporary apartment, and they're there for three and four and 5 years. That is our parent weekend short-term rental thing. We have that but because it's being filled by homeless people now we have residents who are using their homes to try to help alleviate those problems. So we have a homeless problem in Columbus but it's caused by corporate greed. People are being ma'am it is because we're being

it's not just corporate greed that's one of the issues. 85% of our homeless problem is mental health that's not being taken care of by our state and federal government and drug addiction. So uh you know that's what I came here for. That's why I put my hand [clears throat] down cuz that's

so at the end of the day I think we do have a homeless problem. We've seen an increase of homeless problem but it has that long term what we need to do is consolidate $40 million a year is spent in this community to address homelessness and we're not moving the needle. So what we really need to do is re-evaluate ourselves as a whole. I have that already from from when you let public speaking. But for this in particular, I was wondering if we could get more single suite type places built for that people come in that need. I'd love for somebody to develop that. I mean, that's what the commercial districts are for. Somebody in here's a developer. Ask one of them. But if we had the Seagull Select closer, maybe even on Rosewood for the people that come in to visit.

You can't cuz of the height. We just learned that from all the other. Can it be two stories instead of three? I know they said three was their they said three was their issue. If it was two stories, maybe I don't know. But if we had something like that in that area, maybe we'd alleviate some of the problems cuz some people want it, some people don't. So that would at least lower the number in their neighborhood. That's all I'm saying. Thank you. Thank you. That's it. [snorts] All right. Last word.

Last one. Save the save the best for last. My name is Robin Spaniel. You may know me from my emails. That's bird dog. Um, I live in Cotton Town and I am not in favor of this. [snorts] As you people have said before, knee-jerk reaction. I think it is. I want to be able to sell my home whenever I have to move to or not sell my home, rent my home out so everybody can go to Bull Street whenever I end up in Merl Gardens. That's why I am in Cotton Town because it's so vibrant. It's so great. Um, also I just I don't think that if you look forward, if you can only put Airbnbs on four-lane highways and places where you don't want a family to be there, what happens in 10 to 15 years when the Airbnbs that are in communities are gone and then you just have Airbnbs out in the middle of nowhere with no trespassing signs everywhere in the city, too. I just don't I just don't think it's a good idea. I think you need to look into it more. I want to keep the Airbnb.

Did you look at the map? Just out of curiosity, did you look at the map at all the opportunities that you have? I just curious. I just No, I didn't look at the map. I just saw that they were four-lane highways and industrial places. Uh there's mixed use. There's commercial districts which are tied in to different neighborhood corridors, etc. I I would just encourage you to look at the map just for your own edification. I will. I will. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, I think that was the last word there. I know. So, let me tell you where we are there. There there there's a couple things here. Number one, um, you know, nobody's going to be happy at the end of the day on either side. Um, and it's not a knee-jerk. We've been working on this for a long time, looking and listening to all the things. And Airbnb and um, Verbbo and all the national platforms are not helping at all. They allow people to false advertise. They don't won't require permitting, etc. It goes on. Not every STR owner is a bad owner. There are a lot of great people doing a lot of good things. And there is a need for it both. That's why we don't want to get rid of them, but we're in a quandry because a cap system doesn't work. When you got a neighborhood who has 60 units and you're saying that's the limit to it when it already exceeds a pretty big percentage, do you push it to another neighborhood? I don't think so. I don't think that was the intent. [snorts] So, looking at this, you know, um, a lot of people talking about, look, we got 2100 empty lots out there for home ownership opportunities. Those people who own the lots are keeping us from growing. It's not it's not the STR industry. It's not the long-term rental because you get you can look at the numbers, you know, it's really down. So, yes, we have done some research. The biggest problem we have right now to be quite honest with you in in this ordinance and it's going to be something we've got to change is the home ownership part because if you're a owner occupied you have the you should have the ability if you want to rent it out for a couple week because state statute says you can do that for 72 days before it reverts to a commercial property. That is a problem. Um there's several folks who've reached out some elderly folks who rent

out rooms on a week-to-day basis, garage apartments, etc. This is a comprehensive. This isn't just about about the shootings. And I know for those folks who live around that house, it that is it would be if it happened next to my house. I mean, let nobody lie that it wouldn't affect the way you think or the way you feel, right? I mean, let's just be honest. So, we have to figure that figure this out. And everybody keeps talking about meeting in the middle. There has been no middle. All right? Because the bad actors aren't stop acting. The agencies aren't working with us to go after those bad actors. We had to sue to get our money that was collected. Sue, spend legal money to get the money that's actually owed to us. So, it's been a balancing act on all sides. I believe this ordinance, it needs a tweak. The home ownership piece, I I clearly heard that we got to tweak that. I'm in favor of of moving forward with the ordinance with the understanding that we get it we get this corrected, meaning we fix the home ownership. Because if you own your home and you want to rent a room or you want to rent it for the weekend, hell, if you want to rent it enough so that you can have the opportunity to pay for your property tax, we shouldn't do that. Those folks who have their their permits now and operate a a Airbnb and good graces, we're not taking it away from you. There are other places if you want to expand that business and that's your main business role and you want to expand it the mixed use the the frontline roads and there are plenty of Airbnbs in those frontline roads that still gives you that house feel and other I do think there's a place for it. So I think it's a balance because I have a feeling when we move forward both sides are not going to be

happy with this council which you know by the grace of policy probably means it's a good policy. So for [clears throat] me, what I see is that we should move this forward with the intent that part of our legal team sits down with us in the planning to address and and fix the home ownership piece. I believe that that is a a perfect because that gives a lot of avenue and a lot of locations for people to grow and it doesn't take away from the people who are existing in the business. I'm not for in five years or 10 years it goes away and some people want that. Some people want us to change the ordinance to non-conforming which would be create such a a mess throughout the city because you can't just apply it to one entity and that would take some people out of home ownership that would take work lives out. There's all these things that we have to think about. [snorts] So for me, I think we give this first reading with the understanding that our legal team uh work with both planning and um a zoning to come up with a comprehensive amendment that allows us to deal with the home ownership piece and we move forward. My motion is that we move forward with those intent so that we can get that and that means that we're moving towards lifting the moratorum and open up the doors with the unified map. Is that uh with that? That's my motion.

Second. We got a second. Further discussion. Madame clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey, I. Mr. Brown, I. Dr. Busles, Mr. Brennan, Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman. I thank you. [applause] [groaning] [snorts]

Okay, thank you. I printed a complex [clears throat] sign. Can you see if it's on that copy or not? Where is that? Folks, we're not adjourned. We still have a meeting going on. If you'd like to go home, you're more than welcome to, but we we got work to continue. Thank you.

[snorts]

Um, so that item was the last item on the public hearing. I I do have I believe the next item on the agenda, um, which is item 28. Thank you. Yes. And so this is this is an annexation. Um, this is an annexation with interim future land use amendment and an interim zoning map amendment. [snorts]

And and I apologize. So, um, and I don't have a slide for that one, but this is, um, 1227, 1235 Bakersfield Road. Um, and I'm not going to read all the addresses, but Diamond Lane and, uh, also three addresses on Statatler Road. And this is property that's just north of Dutch Square Mall. So, it's just off of Broad River Road. There's actually portions of it that extend to it. Um this this property is um owned by the word of God church and ministries and and so this is a request to annex. Um this would return to you um to confirm the zoning. The proposed uh interim zoning or sorry proposed interim land use is urban core community activity center and urban edge residential large lot. And the proposed zoning district would be um community activity center/cord district and residential single family large lot district. And those districts would coincide with the current county zoning, which the portions that are closer to Broad River Road are are currently zoned general commercial. And there are three individual lots that are zoned residential too by Richland County. So, so we're basically translating those county zoning districts into city of Columbia zoning districts. Uh, is there anybody here to speak for or against uh this first reading u for annexation and interim land use amendment and interim zoning map amendment?

Mayor, this item is not up for a public hearing. It's just first reading of the ordinance. All right. I [snorts] don't know if anybody wanted to speak on it. I mean had an open forum. So [clears throat] re McDow. So move. Got a motion. Is there a second? Second. Motion in a second. Madame clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey. I. Mr. Brown. I. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rickman. I. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Moving into a period.

Um, Mr. Mayor Pro, should I continue, please? Thank you. Ordinances, first reading, item 29, ordinance number 2025101, granting an encroachment to Shaun Eubanks for the use of the right-of-way area of the 6100 block of Hampton Le installation and maintenance of a wooden fence adjacent to one Copperfield Court. So move. There is a motion, properly seconded. Any questions, comments? Seeing none, Miss Hammond. Mr. Bailey, hi. Mr. Brown, hi. Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, yes.

Thank you. Item 30, ordinance number 2025108, approval for granting an easement to Dominion Energy, South Carolina, Inc. along a portion of city-owned property. There is a motion. Is there a second? Second. And a second. Any questions, comments? Miss Hammond. Mr. Bailey. Hi, Mr. Brown. Hi, Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. [clears throat] Good. Thank you.

Item 31, ordinance number 2025109, authorizing the city manager to execute a purchase and sale agreement between the city of Columbia and the Kesler Enterprise, Inc. and any necessary deeds, assignments, bills of sales, and other closing documents for the sale of Washington Square office building, 1136 Washington Street, the Washington Plaza parking garage, 1112 Washington Street, and the Washington Plaza retail shops. So move second. There's a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, seeing none, madam clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey. Hi, Mr. Brown. Hi, Mr. Brennan. Yes,

Mr. [clears throat] McDow. Hi, Mayor Rickman. Hi. Thank you. Event resolutions. Item 32, resolution number R2025084, authorizing consumption of beer and wine beverages only at First Thursday on Main Street. Second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Seeing none. All right. Mr. Bailey. I. Mr. Brown. Hi. Mr. Brennan. Yes. Mr. McDow. Yes. Mayor Rickman.

Moving into a period of city council committee referrals, reports, and new business. Item 33. Council has asked to refer the development of a flag display policy for city government property and public facing facilities to the administrative policy committee as requested by the honorable Tyler D. Bailey. Mr. Mayor, can we take all three of these up at the same time?

Considering they're yours, um um yes, I would say that you know we've been working with staff on AI strategy. Um, we had uh folks from Mitch Weiss and some other folks from the Harvard Bloomberg program here and we've got some other stuff going. So, there's a lot of things moving. So, this this will only enhance, but thank you for bringing it forward. Thank you. Would you like me to read them in the record, Mr. Bailey, or one at a time?

There's a print out. I would just ask that be made a part of the record, but we could just go the highlights. I could say a few things. We've been here a long time. mouth. I'm trying to shorten this agenda up. Uh but three referrals that are on the agenda. There's one for a flag display policy on city government property. The other is an incentive package uh to try to attract an urgent care in North Colombia uh after assessing uh healthc care gaps in the area uh with consultation with the economic development committee. And then the last one, as the mayor referenced, is a comprehensive artificial intelligence strategy uh and policy where we not only um you look how we're using artificial intelligence, but look at ways where we can enhance our city functions through AI, but also have public engagement and make sure it's being used in a responsible and ethical way. Uh the three committees are the first one's the administrative policy committee. Uh the second will be community development and then the last one is to the city manager and the executive team to work on the AI strategy. And if I get a second, we could probably get this thing this meeting close.

Got a second. Thank you, Mr. Bailey. Hi, Mr. Brown. Hi, Mr. Brennan. Yes. And Mr. McDow, yes. Mayor Rickman, I thank you. There any other committee reports or referrals or new business? Report.

The administrative policy committee met today to uh review the honorary street naming uh application. The committee endorses the following items. Uh honorary street naming in honor of Curtis Elkins at the corner of Katie Street. Mr. Elen was a community leader with in the Golden Acres uh community and uh and was affectionately called Mr. Golden Acres. The second honorary street naming is in honor of uh Rosewood Elementary School at the corner of 3200 Rosewood Drive and 200 South Raven Street. Uh, Rosewood Elementary will be celebrating 100 years of service to the community. Mr. Mayor, I'll move the adoption.

Um, say he's moving the adoption. I'll make the second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Seeing none, Madam Clerk, could you read the role? Mr. Bailey, I Mr. Brown, Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, Mayor Rickman. Hi. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to refer a pilot program for a food pantry app, Need No More, to the community development committee after meeting with the group in a positive report from the office of business opportunities and mayor's office vetting. In addition to the great need they fill, they are also a product of the Void Innovation C Center's newest incubator cohort. There's a motion. Is there a second? Second. Second. We got a motion in a second. Madam clerk, could you read the role?

Mr. Bailey. Hi. Mr. Brown, Mr. Brennan, yes. Mr. McDow, yes. Mayor Rickman, hi. Thank you. So, mayor, are we ready for public input? We are ready. We have three individuals signed up to speak. We will start off with Miss Diane Wy. Miss Wy, I got to be home by midnight. Say that again. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. How you doing? I got sleep. Yes, Santa. Oh, lordy.

I'm not going to fuss today. I just wanted to bring y'all something from now on. I'm going do mine at the beginning. Tired and cold and sleepy, honey. I'm hungry. Um, but I just wanted to give y'all a little something, little token. [clears throat] If you don't want it, give it back. Yes, ma'am. Don't throw my stuff away. It wasn't free. Wow. Okay. You can take hers. Take take that c. Yeah. Uhhuh. I didn't get one. I got I gave you two. Somebody done took your stuff. I I I got one for you. Everybody got a box? Yeah. I didn't get a box. You got You got You got I'mma take Tina's.

But anyway, I just [laughter] want to I know I know she No, let me finish. I I know y'all be going through a whole lot. We take you through a lot, but you know, I want to make sure I do this every year. This is on my agenda. I can fuss at you and be nice to you at the same time. That's why we love you, Miss Wild. But anyway, I still got one thing I need to tell you. The man is is putting his business up. He already got his business up on Bronx Street. They got um bins out there. It's going to be roaches, rats, snakes, and everything out there. He already got his fence up. You know, you know what I told you a couple of months ago? Yeah.

His name is Peter. We're supposed to have a meeting next month. Not you, Mr. His name is Peter. And all I want to know is how can these people come in and start a business and don't inform us? We don't want no trash beside houses. Houses on the side and the front and the church. Look, but I mean, you know, somebody somebody takes a piece of property and it's zoned properly. I mean, that's what what we need. But it's trash. We don't what we have a ser we got garbage service. Why we need somebody to put bins out there to put trash in? I don't know. I have to go look at it cuz I'm not sure what you're

We have a meeting with them next month. All right. So, uh, we already start. You like us to join you? Yeah. the they better cuz it's right in their house, right in the back doors, you know. And he told me, this is what he said. He said when the zoning people can't get out, you know, like give tickets to people who have had to clean up their yard, they going to work with the city to clean up. I said, "Well, I'm going to make sure I done told you this the second time." So, apparently he must have talked somebody at the zoning thing.

Yeah. Well, we'll get together. Yeah, please do because um the church is against it and the uh the apartments right there and they got [clears throat] houses around it. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. But anyway, I got um I want to make sure y'all have something, you know, nibble on tonight. Merry Christmas. I need something to drink tonight just while if you pull something out of your purse like that, you and I can hang out later on. Mr. [laughter]

Miss Miss Wy, let me just say um a parting word to you uh as we close out um close out the year this last council meeting. Yeah, [snorts] I think everybody got one. Just want to say thank you. You uh you've been very active in our council. Um, [clears throat] there is not another president and I'm sure some of our presidents attend, but you attend every council meeting. And while [clears throat] we are able to argue with you, disagree with you sometimes over the phone,

um, I want to say thank you. You have been very passionate about your community. You've been very active in your community. you've given us a parting gift for the end of the year and we thank you. Yeah, we thank you for that and we would hope that as we move into um 2026 that same passion and that same kind of enthusiasm, yeah, will continue to be with you. So we say thank you and every every [clears throat] one of every one of my colleagues while we may disagree with you, we got to love you. Yeah, I hope you do. I hope you do.

Thank you. That's all that's all I want to say. But I want to say something too. I want to say when you don't see when I don't see none of y'all don't ask me for no vote. Don't ask me for a vote. As long as I can call you and aggravate you and tell you what I need to tell you, you'll get back where you want to be. I want you to know that. I couldn't sleep if I didn't get a call from you. I know you couldn't. I'm [laughter] And I got all the time in the world. I I love you. I love all I'm passionate about what I do.

You're 100. But Miss Wy, you have to understand what Reverend McDow just said is the absolute truth. your passion and commitment to push to get things done and and it allowed us to work with the state and others to make a major impact in your neighborhood. That would not have happened had you not done what you did, which was not give up at any point. I'm not a given and push. No, but you impacted. Yeah. If you go through that neighborhood and you look at the 65 homes that were able to get aid and change, everything from roofing to windows to kitchens to electrical to HVAC,

you did it. You helped do it. At the end of the day, it wouldn't have happened had you not brought it forth and said, "These folks are being forgotten. The system is not working." Yeah. Yeah. and collectively with a partnership with with Representative Howard, Reverend McDow, bringing in all the partners that we brought in, we were able to address. And some of these homes, I remember sitting with one of our code enforcement, the lady's like, I we don't have a choice. We've got to move this woman out of this house right in your neighborhood because it just was not safe. Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you, thank you, too. Thank you. [laughter]

This keeps me going y'all cuz you know I lost my husband. I'm lonely and I ain't got enough time. [laughter] Time time. Oh, I got to find you a jo o mayor. Next we have Miss Fawsome. Who was that? [clears throat] Fawsome. All right. Uh, last but not least, Michael Dalton.

Hey, good evening. Thank you for your patience and waiting. I know it's been long. That was past my bedtime. Probably y'all's time. Um, you can call me Mike, by the way. Um, I've been in Columbia area about 19 years. first day I I was when I stepped off the bus at um military base down the street for basic training and they sent me back here. I was in the army band uh did GI thank you for your service by the way

and thank you for your service as well and all of you you got some hard things to solve here right this one's easy for you I think um so I did the GI bill at USC I've been raising kids and my wife of 18 years will celebrate 19 I think um in January so uh been in the area you guys do a fabulous job love living here the rivers are great fishing golf and I played the trumpet right I still do it every once in a while picked it up the the day um Lexton Community Band got a flyer. My son's at River Bluff. I was like, I thought they, you know, with CO went, you know, but that no, they've going strong. So, I played with them a couple of months and I've been busking downtown. I went to the Greenville parade. I went to the Lexon parade. Um talked with the Greenville Police Department because you have to have a license up there. And I was just visiting and I said, "Do you guys enforce that if I'm not, you know?" And they said, "Oh, no, we don't." So, been busking down here. I was at Soda City the other day. Um he's make about 100 bucks an hour. Um do it whenever I want. It's a pretty good gig. So, uh, I was removed by five police officers from doing that from the corner on the sidewalk, uh, where the Christmas tree is. Um, I tried to explain some case law behind that. Um, took him 15 minutes googling things. Um, so section 11.74 A2 prohibits performance in a public area where a street event, this is Columbia, where a street event's being conducted. Subsection B addresses time restrictions. G prohibits interference with the event. I allows for donations and sets sign limits. M and N address sound limits and amplifiers which are allowed within the decibel limits. And I was in compliance with all of this stuff, right? Um there's a constitutional overarching fundamental idea. Ask Miles Davis if he's speaking through his trumpet. It's actually protected through a lot of case law. Devonport versus City of Alexandria, Fourth Circuit 1983 on appeal um is is a good example here. And I didn't have time to do a lot of Googling this week and I don't have access to West Law, but I would urge you guys to look it up because you know

where I'm going to be on Saturday morning, right? I didn't make a tea time this week. So, I'm not going to walk off like I did last week. Um so, I'd appreciate you addressing that with You get a busker permit?

Yes, sir. I do have a buser permit which was properly displayed and explained to the police officers over the course of 15 minutes. Nice officers. You do an excellent job. You look good on that float the other day, chief. But they got this one wrong. And I tried to explain the complexities of the case law layered on top of the ordinance. We all we all know what the law of the land is and it's been well established that busking musical instruments to include taking donations is first amendment. And if there's any deference to first amendment protection versus safety issues, right? I'm not juggling fire. Don't don't worry about it. Okay? Performances like that. Then you have justification. Okay? But amplified within, you know, 80 dB is pretty reasonable. You guys current limits a little low according to some case law. I just wanted to talk with you about that. I got 22 seconds left. That's pretty good. Um I messaged you on LinkedIn a couple years ago.

So sorry for laughing, but that was funny. Um cuz you were trying to figure out how to use those 22 seconds. Well, you know, you should have brought your horn and played a little bit. This guy, you know, I got an econ degree, right? A gentleman earlier said that economic principle, people with the money know how to better use resources. They didn't teach me that at the University of South Carolina necessarily. So, uh, keep up the good work. I need y'all's help with this one, though. I'll be there Saturday morning. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.

That's it. That's everybody signed up. Yes, sir. What you Come on down, ma'am. Huh? Say what? What was that? He said come on up. [clears throat] Yes, ma'am. [sighs] Hello. Okay. So, I signed on the wrong paper. I'm sorry. That's okay. Um, we're not going to agree, so I apologize in advance. That's all right. Uh, that's what's great about this city. You can do that.

And I emailed you earlier. So, uh, good evening, mayor and city council. My name is Kay Moore. I'm co-founder of the Moore Charity Group, a homeless nonprofit based out of Columbia. Uh, I just want to say that my personal opinion, I don't believe we have a homeless uh, crisis in Colombia. I believe we have a drug crisis in Colombia. Um, there is a crisis that needs to be addressed. Number one, children in Colombia are getting their only meals from school lunch programs. They go home to unsafe conditions, neglected homes, or parents who don't know how to care for them. Many don't have a home at all. Some are even being dropped off um by school buses at hotels behind the Harbison Mall because their families have been priced out by what I believe is corporate greed and inflation, high rents and uh rent going up every year, $200. It's not just a problem for homeless adults. It's a crisis for our most vulnerable population, our children. We have people sleeping downtown right now, not because we like land or ideas, but because we lack structured housing that gets people off the streets immediately and protects children at the same time. Allegedly, Colombia has over 500 unhoused individuals living on the streets in the downtown area alone. Our current shelter system isn't working. As we all know, downtown is historic, so there isn't much space to build outward. But what if we were to build upward? Uh at at the more charity group, a homeless nonprofit, we've been working within the community. We've been encountering these families along the way while trying to help our homeless population. Um we've been encountering families in these situations and we've been brainstorming a few ideas. Today I would like to present to you one of those ideas. Um an initiative called the Colombia Cares Community or the three C's. Um, tiers one and two are pods, uh, affectionately referred to as Columbia capsules inspired by Japanese style capsule hotels going viral on Tik Tok right now. These are immediate and secure spaces that will remove people

from the sidewalks, parks, and downtown corridors the same day they enter the system. If uh, legally permitted, make them uh, a law where that people cannot sleep outside because the excuse of I have nowhere to go will no longer be a valid excuse. Uh tiers three and four would be providing people a larger, more supportive unit for residents who need structured help to transition off of the streets, access employment programs, and rebuild their lives. Tier five is for individuals uh and families who have been priced out of their homes by market rate inflation, corporate greed, and have been forced into hotels. Tier six is for families who um is for families who graduate these units. They're capsized family units the size of a hotel room because that's where families end up anyway in hotel rooms. Um, and these capsized family units, there are no automatic upgrades for additional children. Graduation is conditional. Children must be safe, healthy, and developmentally supported. Uh, nearing reading near grade level, properly cared for, and protected.

I ran out of time. Sorry. But if you want to hear the rest, you leave that with us. Yeah. and I emailed him the answer. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Going once, going twice. Yes, Miss Thomas, welcome. So, I don't have a great understanding of this, so I just wanted to ask a couple clarification questions. It was my first time ever hearing about the um ordinance or the agenda item number 31. Am I allowed to ask questions about that or is that not open for public discussion? You can ask questions about whatever you want.

So, um, from the Fitz News article, my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Rick Patel was bidding $5 million, which would have brought more money in for our investment because the Washington Square properties are valued at about 13.7 million according to Richland County. Um, again, correct me if I'm wrong. So, he was offering to pay $5 million to the city of Columbia at zero taxpayer expense. And instead of going with that offer, we chose to use the the brothers who have the um development firm down in Orlando who are only going to be offering us $2.1 million and we are going to subsequently pay them $400,000 out of taxpayer money and we're giving up the city of Columbia parking garage. So, um, can it just be like

to clarify? Number one, Rick is not the only There are multiple bids on the on the property, right? Number two, just they're not bids, they're not bids. There are unsolicited proposals to be clear. Okay. Which means [clears throat] But also, you're talking the article is completely wrong. I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor, but I also Yeah, I also talked to him and he um he told me like a couple different details. Again, I want to if my understanding is incorrect, please please tell me cuz Well, your understanding isn't incorrect based off what you read. The article is just completely inaccurate. Well, some of what I um had questions about were from what we discussed too personally. It just um

Right. Well, I wasn't part of that conversation. Yeah. But I can clarify the process if you'd like me to do that. What are they not? What are they? No, ma'am. So, in this process, Mr. Mr. Mayor, if you'd like me to just for the benefit of the public, I think we probably need to do that because I'll comment on that afterward. Go ahead.

I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. But it's like we said earlier, the magnitude of the projects that were on this agenda tonight is it's so frustrating because everything is always done in the light of day with the work that we do at the city and with integrity. So to have an article um display a process without once consulting the people who actually put the process together is poor journalism at its best. So, the process that we went through for this historic um property, and again, this all started back very publicly last July when we talked about all of the city properties that we're putting back on the tax roles, the real estate of the city, um in an effort to really amplify and move in the direction of doing things extra special in the city. And so we chose to look for um development at its highest and best use. It's not about the amount of money spent. It's not necessarily about um you know utilizing a procurement process, which is where a bid would come into play. So, we chose to use a commercial developer, a broker, um, a broker to help solicit the best uses to solicit and market our properties in collaboration with the city of Colombia internally with our marketing professionals. And when we do that, that gives us the ability to seek the best and highest use for what we have determined as a matter of policy what we want to see for the corridor that we're trying to develop. And so, that's the process we're in. There's um been letters of interest that were submitted. No bids. Um there have been letters of interest that were quite frankly maybe at a higher value um than what Mr. Patel is suggesting that he

submitted, which all of those were um wonderful letters of interest, but it comes down to what's at the highest and best use for what we're trying to do with the property. And it's [clears throat] not through a bid process at this point. So, we reached a point and always said that in this time frame, December, January, we would begin looking at those and really determining which direction we wanted to go. And that's exactly what we're doing. Okay. Um, so I guess if it's not a bid process, that changes the scope of my questions a tiny bit. Um, what justification, and sorry if it sounds like I'm coming from a rude angle. What justification? I'm just trying to give you the clear information.

Okay. What justification could um outweigh two plus million in additional value from a trusted local partner? And why are we paying $400,000 out of our pocket and also overlooking bids that didn't include us giving a taxpayer funded um parking garage to these people? Um well, multitude of the developments would have also needed the parking. I mean any developer of that magnitude would have needed the parking and it's not again just about um the value which there's other things that have to come into play with a building like that which is um very much so aged um in some sense has lost its useful life. So there are other factors that come into play about the maintenance um the upkeep the ongo on ongoing um issues that have to be maybe esbestos abatement things of significant amounts of money that the developer would have to take on. So in some sense you can look at what the amount that was in the on the Richland County um assessor or value. You can also look at fair market value.

[clears throat]

There's various um ways to look at the value of the property, but it doesn't always in in take into account the other things that have to be done. And again, what brings the taxpayer value, if that's getting to your specific question, and what we looked at in this project is what is the highest and best use and who is the developer that is going to check every single box of what we looked for? And that is cultural, entertainment, amenities, not just a hotel. Who's going to develop 20,000 square ft of retail space because they have the ability to do it out the gate? clearly have the ability to do that because they've done it to every other single property that they've developed and turned cities around in the process. There's so much data, so much analytics that we've looked at to ensure that this is certainly um the right fit for what we're trying to do in the corridor that will amplify not just downtown, but it will bring value on the back end from property tax values, hospitality, tax revenue, etc. And so we feel very confident that they're the best partner um for the right time in Colombia with everything that we're trying to do to amplify our city and our communities.

Maybe I'm being a little bit dumb, but I still don't get why we spent 400,000 from taxpayer money.

Tenant upfit allowance. That's what happens when you rent a space. You get a tenant upfit allowance. This is part of the tenant upfit allowance that we would be paying out that they're going to do the work. So we're returning that. They're paying us 2.9. We're giving them 400 back towards that on work that we would be doing if we rented it out. They're going to do the work, okay? As part of their their process. Also, you got to look at the overall development. Look at the Kesler collection. The Kesler collection took a a old mill in Savannah, Georgia, and turned it into a JW Marriott that split between it has 13 restaurants and stores. It has a museum. It has public space that's opened up. When we're talking about a development here, this isn't about a hotel. This is about the experience that goes with it and the effect it has all the way around. It brings retail. It brings highpaying jobs, training programs. If you look at at the measure and so having the right, this will be the first four-star hotel that this city has ever had

in the last what 50 years. I don't know that there has been. This is a level. So when we make an investment, it's just like when we go to making a a piece of property to work. Same thing we're doing with with housing. We're putting we're putting we're taking we're taking no money for the land. We're putting that in as equity for that home ownership piece. Sometimes we have to plant the seed. Okay. And so part of that is is is looking at what does the development bring this community? It brings us a higher uh tax base right there from a standpoint of bringing in hospitality tax and things. So that's you're talking about that. It's bringing in retail. It's bringing in restaurant all being part of that one development. It's creating space that will be accessed to public. So they'll be part of the development. If you go look at all their properties, you see the effect it has. That's the type of person we're looking at. So, there's more to it than just saying a dollar amount

because a dollar amount and and and no offense to Mr. Patel, but I guarantee would be coming back and asking us for stuff [laughter] as well. It's not just a a clean sale. So, don't don't get fooled by that. This this is a this is a gamecher for Colombia. It the ripple effect of what this hotel can do and the partnerships they want to create with the hospitality industry. You know, you talk about uh Hayward Career Center. They want to help work with the community operators. That's what they've done. They this this is what how they built their model and they're very well respected. So, I I wouldn't discount it, but um I will tell you

and we would encourage um you and any member of the public to not just listen to with anything. I mean, this goes with anything, right? Absolutely. to not just listen to one um opinion or side of a story, which everyone is entitled to what they think, but the reality is there are multiple letters of interest. There are multiple developers who um submitted for this and there have been every single other one who was in that process so far has applauded the decision. So if there was something wrong about the process, it's it would, you know, you have to ask yourself why is only one person questioning it when there were multitude of others who were a part of it and actually said because if you know the brand, if you know the flag, if you know everything that Mikman just explained about the Kesler collection and understand what it means for our community, then you wouldn't question it.

It's you just I appreciate you guys explaining it [clears throat] for me. I know I have like very little part of the picture and there's so much more. So, thank you for the comprehensive for asking and happy holidays. You too.

That it move. We're journ. Thank you. Have a merry Christmas. No vote. I mean I want the last roll of the year. I see you had on call the mic on. It's consensus. Thank you. I wasn't done. Oh, you had something else. Oh, we're sorry, Mr. Mayor. I'm just going to say it's been a good year, serving with y'all. It's been a long year. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Happy holidays. Happy holiday.

Great first full year. First full year almost. Yeah. Almost. You hear that about? Yeah.

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