City Commission - Regular Meeting

[music] [music] [music] Hey, hey, [music] hey.

Uh we [clears throat] will open the uh commission meeting on this Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. Uh and uh stand for the flag salute, please. [clears throat] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Uh sadly, I I have some uh information to give you. Um our city manager is not here this evening because he's had a death in his family, his brother. Uh he'll be back with us uh soon. We hope and uh we send our our our regards and our sympathy to his family. Pastor, you're up. Thank you.

May we pray? Holy Father, we give you thanks for this glorious time of the year as we approach Christmas and to remember your gift to us, your son. Father, we ask you to bless us with hope and peace and give us joy and love with our fellow citizens here and may it spread throughout our country. It is a time that we need it, Father. May we look to you our great light. Father, we ask you to uh bless our city manager's family tonight as they mourn the death of Darren's brother and ask you to give them peace and comfort and surround them during this time. We ask you to bless our commissioners for a job that they have done very well this year and we pray that next year that they will come already in spiritled to guide us on to a big celebration starting next year of 150 years. Father, we just thank you for the city of Pittsburgh. We thank you for our staff that we have that work so hard to provide for the citizens. Continue blessing them and bless us all here tonight. And may your peace and harmony surround us as we make Pittsburgh a great place to live, a place where all can feel welcome. We ask this prayer. We give it up to you, Father. hear it in your holy name. Amen.

Thank you, pastor. [clears throat] Uh we have a proclamation uh for Dr. Jim Triplet Day. Do we have someone here to represent? Sure.

The proclamation whereas Dr. James R. Jim Triplet first arrived in Pittsburgh in 1962 on a football scholarship to Pittsburgh State University and went on to earn his bachelor's and master's degree before serving his country in the US Navy during the Vietnam War and completing a PhD at the University of Kansas. And whereas Dr. Tiplet joined the BSU faculty in 1981, became chair of the department of biology in 1985 and over a 23y year tenure in that role mentored generations of students. And whereas Dr. Tipper's passion for sustainability and his tireless advocacy for waste reduction and environmental stewardship extended far beyond the classroom including leadership on many local and statewide organizations and numerous accolades and awards. And whereas Dr. Chip Dr. Pipl's teaching, research, volunteerism, and gentle mentorship enriched countless lives and will continue to benefit Pittsburgh's people, ecosystems, and future generations. Now therefore, [clears throat] I, Don McName, mayor of the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas, do hereby proclaim November 15, 2025 as Dr. Jim Triplet Day in the city of Pittsburgh, and urge all citizens to honor his memory by committing themselves to education, conservation, and community service dated this 9th day of December, 2025.

Thank you. [applause] [applause] [clears throat]

We'll move on to public input. Uh, please keep your comments to about 3 minutes if you would please. [clears throat] Hello, my name's Rain Meadows and I'm here to um kind of push the support for public soccer fields in Pittsburgh. Uh I'm a lifelong Pittsburgh residents and I've been a licensed soccer coach for 30 years, uh 10 years at the high school and now um I run the Iguana Soccer Club here in Pittsburgh. Uh we've got over a hundred kids in our program. We've got seven teams across four different age groups. And our biggest struggle um is finding places to practice. Uh our league is in Joplin. Um but with with seven teams and 100 kids, finding places to practice becomes a challenge. Um, I also work part-time for a company called 5v5 Soccer that puts on uh soccer tournaments across the country. And I travel around in the summers doing those. And I've seen a um a lot of communities, even smaller communities than us be able to be profitable by hosting tournaments. They see an uptick in revenue. Um, so I think soccer fields in this area that were for, you know, public access could be able to not only support the growing soccer community in this city, um, but also support and bring revenue. Um, because we can not only host those tournaments, um, we could look at hosting high school tournaments. Uh and I think with the upcoming World Cup um this country is going to see a big increase in popularity and participation in soccer

um like it did with the women's soccer uh World Cups in 99 and 2003. Um so I think now is a great time uh for us to kind of get ahead of the program. uh for all the interest u not only at the youth level but through the high school with the success of the women's program at the college um I definitely think there's a big need for it thank you for your time thank you sir

anyone Okay, let me put a timer on. I'm uh Dave Pericone, 111 West Forest. I'm here tonight as the uh treasurer for the Southeast Kansas Recycling Center, coincidentally founded by one Dr. Triplet. Um, [clears throat] as you know, um I'm sure uh since um Dr. Triplet's passing, we've been uh the board's been struggling to um carry on his legacy uh in a way that that would honor him uh and all his efforts uh in the community. Uh we've ran into some financial struggles that I think you know about. We were forced to close uh at the end of October. We received this huge outpouring of support in the form of a lot of small donations and we thought that that was the community telling us that they were voting with their wallet. They wanted us to reopen but we had to find a way to sustain that level of support. So we instituted a fee for service model. Uh long story short, it's not working. Uh we're getting about a 100 cars a week. We need about 250. So, um I am here with a uh a soft ask. I have a sponsorship proposal that I would like the city to consider uh signing on to. Uh there are, you know, sponsorship perks and there's a lot of room for negotiation and whatnot. Um I can just leave it, I guess, with the clerk. um uh and uh failing that uh if you could at least get the word out uh to you know leverage your your networks. Um we're

looking for sponsors. We're looking for ideas. We're looking for volunteers. We're looking for um any kind of strategic partnerships uh you can think of. I know that you know solid waste management is kind of a new utility for the city right now. Uh, so I don't know how well-developed that plan is, that strategy. Uh, but I would think that recycling would fit right in there somewhere. Uh, so this might be a way a way to fit that in. Okay. 2 minutes 15 seconds. Thank you, sir. [cough and clears throat]

Good evening. I'm Sonia Lala with the Small Business Administration Disaster Recovery. Could you state your address, please? My address? Your address? Um, Prairie Village. Um, the the entire dress.

That's okay. Uh, so I'm Sonia Ala with the Small Business Administration Disaster Recovery. Um a presidential declaration was made on October 24th, 2025 and federal funding has been available in form of lowinterest loans for small businesses and nonprofits. The SBA economy injury disaster loans are working capital loans that help small businesses and nonprofit to meet their financial obligation. The rates are low as a 4% for small businesses and 3.7 for nonprofits. Um uh the maximum loan amount is 2 million. The terms are up to 30 years and there is no application fees and u no repayment up to 12 months. Uh we invite qualified applicant to go to our website sba.gov/ disaster or by calling our phone number 9006952955. Thank you.

Thank you. [laughter]

Any other folks? Christy Bner, 1508 Bitner Court. Good evening, commissioners. At the last meeting on November 12th, I came to the podium during public input to express ongoing concerns of the budget presented for 2026. I gave examples and ask questions that went unanswered. After the last agenda item, there should have been a time for non-aggenda reports and requests. Yet, the mayor ignored it and moved to go directly into executive session. And after that, it was adjournment. So, I guess I will have to repeat myself. By a show of hands, how many of the commissioners have received the latest copy of the 2026 budget book from the city manager?

It was quite surprising to see how much the numbers changed from the September 9th budget document. There's over 30 pages of numbers that have markedly changed from previous versions of the 2026 budget. The mill levy table, specific line items, totals of years from 2024 to 2026, and FTE positions are examples of what I have found. There are three separate budget books. The first budget book was presented to commissioners for the July 22nd, 2025 presentation of the budget. In that meeting, the five books were taken back and new ones were printed during the meeting as changes were being made and the city manager said they wanted to post the most accurate budget for the website. Darren and Jay worked long into the night to get the second book to the commissioners that evening. So, after requesting new information after the budget hearing on September 9th, I received it October 30th. Here's the second budget book. And then this is the copy of the budget book I got after October 30th. The annual revenues between these three books range from 46 to 48 million. The total revenues range from 72 to 74 million. The first two books share the same mill rate and valuations to support the budget. The third book was the same mill rate. Yet the valuation for the 2026 budget is 181,713,350. In the state certificate, the assessed valuation is shown as 183 million73295. Then on November 12th, the county clerk released to the morning sun a true and correct list of the tax levies in Pittsburgh's mill rate increased to 52.006. I also received information that the assessed valuation for Pittsburgh was given to be 179,626,310. According to canansasopenggov.org,

the mill rate has not been 50.854 since 2018. It was 51.49 in 2018, went up to 51.64 in 2021 and begin to decrease over the last 3 years to now 50.854 that was stated over and over when discussing this budget. Now we are 52.006. I believe taxpayers are due for an explanation of how this has taken place in a matter of three months. It also states over and over in September the discrepancies have been corrected and updated. It has been identified this is not the case. The question becomes how does the commission move forward? Either this commission will follow the 2026 budget book formally adopted on September 9th, 2025 or a document that has not received proper scrutiny by the five commissioners. Given these circumstances, the commission should re-examine this budget document to know how the city will spend funds for the next year. call for an outside audit to take place as soon as possible and to give an explanation to the taxpayers of Pittsburgh. Thank you.

Well, I have a question. [applause] I have a question. Question. What was sent to the state? Uh there was a state certificate, but that's not the that's not the numbers the county has. Is that the only that's the only thing that count was sent to the state? Right. Well, but the county has different numbers. So, I don't know how you all decide on on how that works, but um the county clerk has given different numbers. So, there's certainly room for Well, you have three books here. Which one are we going to use? That's the question, I think, to for the next year. They're consensual, right? One right after the other. Correct. I mean, they

Well, you have one, but the first one was taken back because they made changes. The second one was is

the second one was formal, but then you have this one. Have you you haven't even seen this book, have you? And there are changes in that book. So that's why I say you ought to reexamine this number the number three book because there are differences in here that you all don't understand have been changed. And that's not what was told. It was asked were there going to be any changes? Would it be the same as the number two budget on September 9th? And they said yes, but they're not. So this is why you need to be looking at what you're going to you don't know what you're spending, how you're going to spend it, just like what you're going to do, you know, pretty soon with amending the budget. What are the dollars? Where are they going to be spent? That is the question to be answered.

Any comments? Jay, you want you want to talk about that now? Yes. Yes. No. Not really. Not till the budget amendment comes up. Let's wait for the budget amendment. All right. [clears throat] What's Yes. What? What? What is it? I said let's wait for the budget amendment when it come. Okay. Okay. On the agenda. Anyone else? Okay. Seeing none, we'll move on. John, go ahead. [clears throat]

John Lar North Java Street. I want to know why the commission is not more appropriate looking at this budget's over and voting for things like this and have three different budgets. This is not fair to the taxpayer of Pittsburgh. Do you agree with that? I would agree with it. Yes. You agree with having three different budgets? No, I would agree with the final budget being looked at by the commission. There's not a final budget. You keep getting a new one all the time. Does that take the place of the other one? Well, I assume so. Oh, you can't just assume. You need to look at it, study it, and you've got wants and needs. As a commission, that's what you need to do.

Hi, Roger Lanchek, 1147 South 220th Street. Um, I guess we're doing a separate budget discussion in in later on. So, I won't Is that Is that correct? If I'm understanding that right. All right. So, I'll hold some of this stuff until then. The document that I gave you has a few items on it that I would like to um to discuss beyond beyond the fact that the Millie went up after we were told it would not. Um, there are a few items on the agenda. the Heartland Business Systems agreement, which sounds like that we're talking about doing a physical server for data storage and backup here in in on the facility in in Crawford County somewhere. Why are we doing that instead of a cloud-based backup, which is industry standard as far as I understand it? Anything that where we have the physical server here is going to be prone to vulnerabilities from everything from a airplane landing on it to a tornado hitting it. It it seems like before we commit ourselves to a multi-million dollar deal for data storage, we should be looking at um best practices across a wide swath and determining how we should do backup so that it's as as less vulnerable as possible. Um I hesitate to use the word invulnerable, but as as low susceptibility to to uh the data being damaged or lost. Um that be question number one. the um housing. I believe you're hearing you're voting on a accepting a HUD grant for housing for the um ESG. I believe one thing I would ask you to look at, this is on page two of this document that I handed you, is to make a motion requesting the Pittsburgh Housing Authority to submit an anonymized report at the next regular city commission meeting, which details the originating location for each client they served in 2024 and 2025. What that would do is give the commission and the

public a direct direct answer on how many people have moved to the area who are taking advantage of our services when we have trouble housing our own. We certainly have our own homeless who are in need of help. If we're bringing in if not bringing in but if we are encouraging or allowing a significant number of people to move here and get unrestricted services that's hampering our ability to serve our own locals. Um, next thing would be the discounts and abatements on the it's it's been a few meetings though, Doc Sigley, but you had mentioned that there are a lot of nonprofits receiving discounts or or abatements in things like property tax, but there there also apparently some things going on with electricity rates being discounted for things like the data farm. I'd like to know how many organizations and what dollar value are being discounted on things like electricity because that's obviously means somebody is picking up that slack and that would be the rest of the taxpayers just like it is for the property taxes. If if one entity is getting a break, somebody else is paying for that. And that's that's something I think would be very very good transparency for the public to to have some knowledge of.

Are you talking about Rod, are you talking about in the form of franchise fees? How? What are you talking about? Well, there's I I I honestly don't know. I know that there there was a reference made to the the data farm being given a discounted electric rate. And isn't that through the the electric company, not through the city? Well, the the city is the one that administers it, Jay, is that correct? Or does the city have anything whatsoever to do with that? We don't we don't have an impact on the rates that they're charged by. That's not something negotiated through the city whatsoever. No. Is there We don't do that. So, what what what kind of of uh incentives did we give them to set up here? We didn't give them incentives. All right.

It's on the We're actually going to be gathering a great deal of revenue from them. All right. There's not nothing that's done to encourage them to come set up here versus not by not by the city. Not by the city at all.

I can speak to that real quickly. Sure. Um, as part of the the incentive package for that, um, you're you're correct that the city collects a franchise fee on on electricity. So, the agreement that was approved by the commission was that for the first five years that 50% of that franchise fee would be rebated back to the the data farm, but they don't get any break on sales tax. So, um, if I understand correctly, it's around 20,000 a month is what it's expected to generate in franchise fees. So half of that would be rebated back to the the data center. So we're giving them about 10,000 a month,

but then the the sales tax goes straight to the city. So the city will be making about $20,000 on that per month. And the city didn't have any upfront investment at all in the data center. What What do they sell them that generates sales tax revenue? What are they doing that generate sales tax revenue uh on electricity? I didn't realize you paid sales tax on electricity until we worked on that project. Yeah. So, just just for five years to help them recoup some of their upfront cost. Okay. So, the city's still coming out about 20,000 a month. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you.

I'd be curious if there if there are other deals like that to uh to actually know what we're what we're doing and are are they truly generating a net positive like like uh Blake is talking about. Um last thing is the trash services. I' I'd like to see some actual hard data on how much total has been invested in the solid waste department and what the net revenue has been that they're bringing in as well as what the what the uh repayment what the expected dates are that the solid waste department will be self- sustaining and when they could begin to repay the taxpayers for the capital investment of purchasing all the equipment that was needed for the solid waste because As my understanding is, they came out of that was a non-budget item that was voted to provide things like the trucks. Uh maybe this most recent budget was included, but the original one was not. And that there's there's a significant amount of investment dollars on the city's behalf to get that department stood up, which is understandable. But when are we going to see that actually recouped and begin to be a net positive for the city bucks instead of a drain? um part of that as well. I think there's a something on the agenda this time about raising the rates for the solid waste department. Did I see that properly or

not on solid waste but for other utilities

but oh other utilities. Okay. Sorry that was a separate thing. But my understanding is too that the the rate for the solid waste department is below market value which obviously is going to affect its ability to sustain itself. But also that's undercutting existing private businesses that provide the same service when the city solid waste department obviously is not having to compete on the same scale because it's been provided all this capital equipment to no cost to the to the department and of course being a city city uh department they don't pay taxes on that equipment as well as I don't believe any kind of income taxes or or taxes on revenue generated. So any those those reports would be very helpful I think for everyone to understand what we're invested in as a city and what we're actually seeing for both short-term and long-term returns on that investment.

Okay. Thank you.

Ralph Mc George 2301 North Ralph Pittsburgh Kansas. Uh, I served on this commission for nine and a half years and each and every year we had only one budget book that was scrutinized and went through thoroughly before we passed it. And I don't think this is a good thing to do. We've got three or four budget books here we can look at. There's always something you can hide in one or two of those books and it should be scrutinized. It should be gone over thoroughly. And if it isn't, there should be an investigation. And I feel this is a a very important time because taxes, we just can't afford to keep them up. Crawford County is one of the poorest counties in the state of Kansas. And our our we've got more retired people in this house in this in this city that uh just can't afford any raises. Our insurance goes up, our cost of living goes up, everything else that we've got, car insurance and everything. And we have no compensation for our payroll to to make them budgets. So you guys need to sit down and it's up to you five people for right now, but there's going to be another one. [clears throat] But we need to have this all scrutinized and gone through thoroughly again before this budget is finally finalized. And I feel the taxpayers of Pittsburgh, Kansas deserves that. Thank you. Any others? Okay, seeing none, we'll close [clears throat] the public input. We now go to the reorganization of the board of commissioners. The will the newly elected and reelected commissioners come [clears throat] forward, please.

If you could raise right hand and repeat after me. I do solemnly swear I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and faithfully discharge the duties and faithfully discharge the duties of city commissioner city commissioner for the city [clears throat] of Pittsburgh, Kansas for the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas. So help me God. So help me God. [applause]

[applause]

Next, excuse [clears throat] me. The next item is the mayor is elected from members of the governing body. I would move to elect Dr. Sley as the next mayor. Second. I can move been moved and seconded the Dr. Sigley be elected as the next mayor. All in favor? Could I get a roll call? Brooks. No. Hi. Yes. Perry. No. No. Sigley.

Yes. I'd like to make a motion for Chuck Manel to be the next mayor of Pittsburgh. I second that motion. It's been moved and seconded to elect Mr. Manel as mayor of the city of Pittsburgh. Is there any discussion on that? I mean, are we are we really breaking from every year that we that [laughter] the top year gets that? I mean, there is no president. There is no president. Okay. It only it only works enough by what's his name in the back. Mr. Lair, you'll just sit there and smile and I can't hear you. I know you can. What? [laughter]

You can't hear a thing. You know, I mean, we've never not elected the sitting president of the board, the mayor. Yes, we have. Okay. Not not unless you can show a policy or procedure that says that's required, produce it. Otherwise, as long as you want to change the rules to fit your own, we're not changing the rules, too. Okay, Ste. It doesn't benefit you. Otherwise, you would be for it. I It doesn't benefit me at all. I I'm just trying to go with tradition on this. There is no tradition. Okay. Very good. There's no uh past uh procedure, nothing like that.

I would like to say something. I I know I'm new to this and I'm newly seated today a few moments ago. I believe in the the people of Pittsburgh believe change is needed. Change is coming. We don't need a We don't need a political speech. You've given that speech number of times before. Chuck, it's yours. [clears throat] We have to vote. All in favor of electing Mr. Manel. Roll call. Vote, please. Roll call. Brooks, yes. I, no. Perry, yes. Yes. Sigley, no. Hold that thought.

We going to need a lot of them. You need to go need a good spawn. Yeah, I got to move this. [snorts] I do solemnly swear I do solemnly solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and faithfully discharge the duties and faithfully discharge the duties of mayor

of mayor for the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas. for the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas. So help me God. So help me God. Congratulations. [applause]

That's real unprofessional. All right. Unprofessional. Doc, here's your hat. Uh, as a new elected mayor DJ, you were cut off from making a comment. So, go ahead with that with you, please.

Thank you, mayor. Uh, after uh speaking to so many people in the city, uh, it was heavily voiced that they wanted change. They wanted different structure for the city of Pittsburgh. Um, we're moving towards that, I believe. I know there's emotions that are high right now and people are upset u but I honestly believe this is a good direction where the city needs to go back. Does everybody have one? I'd like to entertain a motion uh for the new president of the board and I'll make the motion of DJ Perry.

I second. Roll call vote, please. Uh, Brooks, yes. Hi. No. Harry, yes. Yes. Nope. [applause] I do solemnly swear I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and faithfully discharge the duties and faithfully discharge the duties of President of the Board of Commissioners of President of the Board of Commissioners for the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas for the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas.

So help me God.

So help me God. [applause] So before we move on, we need to take care of a little housekeeping. And uh Mr. Mayor, I would like to enter a motion to remove the threeminut restriction on public input and advise people that when they come to speak to the city commission and they have their concerns, uh try to have something prepared. Um, if it is lengthy, we'll move it to the the end of the meeting and non-aggenda. Um, if it's timely and um, put together, we do at the beginning. And then also, I'd like to have with that motion the timer removed from this room.

I'll second that motion. Do we have a roll call vote on that? Brooks, yes. Hype. Yes. Barry, yes. Yes. Yes.

I'd just like to make a comment about the three minute time and the time clock. We need to listen to the citizens that elect us on this commission. They're the one that put us in office. And it takes a lot of courage for a citizen to come up and speak in public at the public input. And we need to listen to what they have to say. We don't make need to make it any more stressful by having a time limit and a time clock on what they have to say. They're their concerns is just as important as anything else we have on the agenda that we need to take care of. So, moving on. Um, mayor, yes,

they're having trouble hearing in the back. They're all saying, is there a way that the it can maybe turn the volume up at all? I just sorry I can see them and I know you can't maybe put your microphones closer. Do you need me to repeat what I just said? All right. So, can you hear me? Yes. Very well. All right. Following up with DJ's motion, the second and how it was voted. Yes. We're we're getting a lot of feedback now. I think you're too loud. Well, what was said earlier is right. The mics just need to be moved closer to you. Well, unfortunately, I can't I'm going to have to get like this. But anyway, sorry.

It It takes a lot of courage to come up and speak before the public. I'm not good at it. I'm going to foul things up when I talk, but I speak from the heart. And I know when citizens that elect us, we need to listen to what their concerns are. And it takes courage for them to come up and talk talk in public. So we don't need to put any more stress on stress on those that want to speak about their concerns by having a threeminut time frame or a time clock. We their their concerns is just as important as anything that we have on the agenda for that evening. So that's all I wanted to say on that subject. Moving on to consent agenda. Are there any items to be removed? Uh, I would like to remove echo. E, F, K, O, and P.

Slow down a little bit. Now say that again. E, E, F, F, K, O, N, and P. P O. I just had a few questions. Is there any other items? Did you say or T T. Did you say T or N? P is involved. [cough] P is involved. [clears throat] Yes. Okay. N for me. N. St. Do you have anything? I don't. Do you have anything? No.

I would like to remove item S. So, let's get started. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda excluding item E, F, G, K, N, O, P? Yes. I would move to approve those items. Wow. Yes. Second. Uh, go vote. Oh. Uh, did did you guys say T? Those went on the other page. Is T on there or not? Sorry. The appropriation ordinance. I would amend my motion to exclude T. Okay. Oh, exclude. Okay.

Excluding T. Okay. So, we have a motion to approve the consent agenda excluding all the ones including T that was just mentioned. Roll call vote. Brooks. Yes. Hi. Yes. Perry. Yes. Win. Yes. Sigley. Yes.

All right. Item E, approval of ordinance number G1383, annexing and including incorporation and including certain land within the limits and boundaries of city of Pittsburgh, Kansas in conformity with the provisions of KSA 12-52 as amended and authorized the mayor to sign the ordinance on behalf of the city located at 1920 South allies wastewater treatment facility. All right, Matt. Good evening. What What can I answer for you?

My question was uh it's never been inside the city limits. That was bizarre even though we've had a plant there for 50 plus years and uh glad to see we're annexing it in, [clears throat] but uh it's just out there where the plant is. Correct. Okay.

So, so the history is is that was originally all platted [clears throat] 100 years ago or whatever. The bypass came through last year when we were doing the boundary resolution. When we were building the plant, we realized the additional land for the new plant wasn't ever annexed. We wrote in the entire language. The um the county informed us that they would not include in our boundary resolution because all that property had never been annexed somewhere during so whatever. Fast forward to today, we are requesting to annex all the wastewater land as it stands today where it's being built into the city of Pittsburgh so we can include it in our boundary resolution.

Well, thank you for explaining that because like I said, that's one that got by a lot of people. So, thank you. I appreciate that. Move to approve unless anybody else. I just I had a couple more questions. I was shocked to hear that it wasn't a part of the physical part of the city of Pittsburgh. There were some questions with all the the plots that are assigned to it. Nothing's changed as far as what the city owns. It's still all correct. City owned property. We're just annexing what was existing. Correct. Matt, I talked to you about this. Could you explain about what you told me about what was annexed and because of the bypass situation?

So, yeah, Hudson Street, Olive, um, it was all that was all if you go back and you can find a plat that extends out closer to Cal Creek and that area. Then obviously 1955 the bypass came through 100 years ago when they built the original wastewater plant that was out there in that area. Anyways the bypass came through and somewhere through uh the change of history just documentation was lost and so we're we're making an effort to clean it up as all. So that was a motion to approve second. All in favor say I. I. Thank you.

Thank you Matt. Item F, approval of ordinance number G1384 amending section 2-109 of the Pittsburgh city code by removing the pro prohibition of members of the airport advisory board from serving more than two consecutive terms and authorize the mayor to sign the ordinance on behalf of the city. Is there was there a specific question you had regarding that? I just got a couple questions and that was I request that one be full. Um is there a precedence before to have an unlimited amount of time for people to serve on this board?

Um in the past they've been reappointed. Uh we have a limited number of people that have the kind of the expertise and concern about the board. The members are pilots. All right. And we just we just don't have that many. And when their term limits up and we lose them, it's hard to replace them. It's gotten increasingly harder to replace them. We're just asking to remove the time limitation on on their on their that doesn't mean they're are permanently on there. It's just that they can serve an additional term past. That's that was the only reason for for this. So when they when they come up to the term limits, they'll be put in the same queue as new applicants that want to be part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I I would think that we would need some kind of a of a cap on it as we do for all all the other boards. Um I mean make a suggestion I guess for it to be a four four term and then reval but the way you've explained it would we be in the same predicament next year? Well yeah this this would take the limit off it every year but we would still if their terms are limited you'd still have to get they'd still have to be reappointed just not just not completely unable to preserve. Yeah. Thank you. So, is there a motion to approve? Um, make a motion to approve it. Second. Second. It's been moved and seconded. All All in favor say I.

I.

All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Item G, approval of ordinance number S 1113, amending ordinance number S 1009, fixing the salary and compensation of officers and employees of the city of Pittsburgh, Kansas, and authorized the mayor to sign the ordinance on behalf of the city. So, I had this uh let me find it. I asked that for that to be pulled, but I am going to make a motion to approve this ordinance. Uh, but after it's hopefully seconded and we vote on to approve it, I would like to amend make a motion to amend the ordinance. So, how do I do that? Do I need do we need to vote on this and approve it and then my motion to amend

the uh the ordinance that's on your agenda tonight? If If you vote to approve it, I would suggest that you approve it with whatever amendment you would you would like and then we can, you know, we can Kim can can make the the changes.

Okay. All right. So, we'll do it that way. Uh, the part I'm going to amend on this salary ordinance is section three. And in section three, the city manager authority. The city manager hereby empowered to employ qualified people to fill any department head position at an annual salary at no more than the maximum amount allowed herein and to employ qualified people to fill the position of any other department head on the annual salary or allergy wage at no more than maximum amounts allowed herein. This is the part that I'm going to read that I want to amend in this section three. And what I want to say is the city manager is hereby empowered to employ Okay, I'll read it again. Employ qualified people to fill any department head position and an annual salary at no more than the maximum amount allowed herein. and to employ qualified people to fill any position other than department head on the annual salary or ally wage at no more than the maximum amount allowed herein. Employees salaries and wages may be increased by the city manager at reasonable intervals until the maximum amount is reached and may and may be allowed and paid from time to time as authorized by the city commission. That's what I want added to that section on my amendment.

What's the What's the exact wording that you wanted as authorized as authorized by the city commission? The reason why I want to do this for a number of years and we budget raises for employees. They're very hardworking people and they need to get raised. But during this part of this salary ordinance, it allows the city manager to give out raises throughout the year to certain employees. And that makes a morale issue among the employees that's not [clears throat] eligible for those raises. So what you're doing is you're you're not allowing the city manager to give raises.

No, I am. He can. I'm I'm authorizing those raises by the commission. That's what I'm asking. But you're wanting the commission to vote on those races.

No, he he he he tells us well, you know, like somebody gets promoted and naturally they're going to get a raise because they've been promoted or they they move up from example for firefighter one to driver, they're going to get a raise on that. I have a pro don't have a problem with that. But the problem I has with have with this is I think we need to know other raises given throughout the year and be authorized to approve those raises before they're given out because it does create a morale issue with employees and it has for several years. So that's the part I'm asking to amend. So

you're just adding the six words at the end of the sentence and everything after that still is the same. All I'm is adding as authorized by the city commission and I made a motion second. I think to DJ's point though I think you're by doing that you're saying on every raise the way the way it's as long as it's

Mayor if I can take a moment to explain how we how we we have a system for implementing raises. So if I can explain that to those of you that don't know really quick. Um, we have a group that meets, a core group that meets every Monday at two o'clock, a personnel action form committee. Um, that is the city manager, the finance director, myself, and a member of the police department because, um, they have it's pretty fluid with people moving from trainees to police officer ones to and through the system. So, nobody from the fire department. Um, no personnel from the fire department. There isn't, but but all the recommen recommendations of raises come from department heads,

right? So I mean those aren't done without the the knowledge of a department head anyway. So um so that's the core group that meets as of right now. Um we go over the raises. We have we have a chart that that we go through with every employes salary on it. So we don't cause compression. Um we we look at everyone. Raises aren't just given out um unless there is an increase in duties um a change in title because of an increase in duties or an opening or a certification that has been received. So, um, usually there's, you know, there's always justification from a department head or a supervisor on why those raises should be given out.

So, that wouldn't change by just having the authority of the city commission approval. Well, there there are are several that happen because there's several employees throughout a year that that go to um trainings, um, certifications, get their CDL, whatever it may be. That's included in the rest of this section three. that includes firefighter one, EMT, uh, CDL license. They're giving raises. I'm not I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about raises that has been given out after over the past several years. Uh, and when employees call me with an issue, I can't explain why those raises were given.

Yeah. Maybe my recommendation would be to to say over a per a certain percentage or if there was, you know, something that we could say because those we we do have um charts on how we give out the the fire department raises that as they get increased and and the police department raises. So, I mean, if you're going to change it, my recommendation would be to put something very concrete in there so we understood when we had to bring it to you and you know, when we didn't. So current currently way I'm understanding there's not a briefing to the commission about what raises were given throughout the year. Not as long as they're within the ordinance.

So what you're saying Chuck is you want the commission to have visibility of the raises past the annual raise and that percentage throughout the year leading up to end year. Right. because sometime we budget a uh 3% merit-based raise or maybe I mean cost of living or two% uh merit based. Kim, is that done across the board though? Correct. Yeah, that's that's all.

Yeah. Yes. I don't have a problem with that. But when raises can be given out and I'm not talking about certificates, CDL license, just way raises given out. Sometimes those raises amount to 9 10 11 12%. And that's the mor morale issue that city employees have. They're all hardworking employees and they're only eligible for a three or 2% raise and others they see others are getting nine and 10%. That's why I want to know and authorize those raises. I I don't understand what the issue might be. on the timeline on approving this. Could Could I I'm considering making a motion to table this so we can have a clarification of the ordinance with the new language. I I don't I don't really

Yeah, it could wait. Um we because of the way that the pay periods fall, our raises won't take effect until um till mid January. Okay. So, so it can wait till the first meeting of January to make sure we're not holding up everybody's payraises for the because it does that's we've been led to believe that if we did not vote for this that people would suffer and they would not get their raises and it's not about that. So, you want to table it, Stew? Well, just I I want I think we should all be clear on what the language is that we're and I'm sure we can have that language uh by our first meeting in January at least. Yeah, it would it would not impact the raises for the first year.

Say that again so everyone will hear it. It would not impact the raises for the first of the year. We we definitely could do it the first meeting in January. So we're Henry, is there a is there a best way to do that? I mean, is there a way of can we see a draft of that before the next meeting so we can certainly so we can make change? Yeah. Okay. Tammy sent out a draft agenda. Do you feel like you've got everything that Chuck wanted on there? I mean, the change the the wording.

Um, the only wording that I heard was uh adding to the sentence regarding uh uh the raises during the the year have to be authorized by the city commission. Authorized by the city commission. I mean, maybe we don't need to tape if that's that's what we're doing. I mean, I'm I'm fine if everybody else is fine with it. I I don't I don't want We'll still have to bring a a revised ordinance before you to vote on, but we need to have that by the first meeting in January. So, we won't be holding up the raises.

Correct. So, I will I don't know if that mo my motion was seconded, but I will I did. So, what do we do now? resend it. Well, you can or we resend it. You can you can withdraw your motion. Yeah, I would withdraw I would withdraw my motion and I would make my motion to table it till the next meeting with the changes. With the changes added. Second. Uh roll call vote. Brooks. You're talking yes to the tableling. The tableing and the amending. Yes. Brooks. Yes. Hi. Yes. Yes. Perry. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Kim.

That was item S. Moving on to That was G. G. Now it's K. Well, I I've got I've jumped ahead of everything else. So, item S has already been talked about. So, K. We're ready. We're on K. We're on K. Approve approval of staff request to purchase reef refuge container from Elliot Equipment in the amount of $46,487 and authorize the mayor to sign the necessary documents on behalf of the city. Good evening, commissioners. I'm Kyle Davis. I'm the sanitation coordinator. Dexter's not here tonight and he asked me to speak. What's your name again? Kyle Davis. Okay.

So, I asked for that one to be pulled just to get [cough] clarity and uh actually I wanted to be pulled. So, uh, the people of Pittsburgh can hear that this program is actually working well. Um, I've had several interactions with the drivers and operators and and lots of people in the city and they love the fact that it's happening. I know the concern is out there about the rate. Um, when I spoke to Dexter this week, he said the current customers are sitting at 3,358. The initial proposed numbers were 2,000. So, there is a calling for it. Um, I just want to make sure that people understand that that side of it working. Um, I do also want to caution, we're purchasing, I do plan to move this, but we are purchasing more containers for residential use is what this is. Yes.

To be clear, it's not for businesses or anything else. These are just the small containers. Now, there was some questions on that. And the rates aren't changing. Not to my knowledge. That's I'll make a motion to approve. I second it. Oh, all in favor say I. I. All oppose? I post same sign.

Thanks, Cal. Moving to end approval of change order number one to the contract with pit foundation repair for the 616 North Broadway debris removal project in the amount of 62,57925 making the overall contract construction amount of $311,57925 [clears throat] and authorized the mayor to sign the change order on behalf of the city. I pulled this Matt. I've talked to you about it and I asked you to come explain that because change orders are normally uh have to be approved by the commission I believe. But this instant you explain go ahead and explain what happened.

Um so in this instance uh again we awarded the original contract to put foundation for um the debris removal within within 616. That was the scope of work that we had limited down to for this contract. Um, upon their commencement and majority of the cleanout of that debris, we were finally getting to see what was going on within that structure. Um, in the northeast corner of that structure, the third floor had joist had separated from the second or separated from the exterior wall going down onto the second floor. the second floor joists were extremely water damaged and um they were not going to be able to be supported um thus creating a pretty bad situation and roughly the north the a quarter of the building in the northeast corner um going into the mezzanine. So at that point um the contractor was there they were expediting quickly on the on the contract um we did not have a meeting in between we we missed the meeting because of Thanksgiving. Um, so, so this to help facilitate a cost savings measure without them without the contractor remobilizing additional cost. He was already there. He had the equipment there. He was moving. We did have Christmas parades, everything else going on downtown where his work area was. We asked him to move forward with um that demolition part and debris removal to get the rest of that out of there. what that required was them to cut individual truss um and drop them separately and safely down to get the rest of that debris in that corner removed. And so we needed to we we made a conscious decision to move forward on that in expeditious and and uh a safe manner and just to help facilitate that work. So and they they promptly finished the job. We now have a clean box structure um inside of there. there will be some f future roof repairs that will need to

happen on that project. So, we're not done discussing it as we move forward. Um, but that is the nature of this change order on on moving forward. So, the still in the roof. Say what? The roof is still unfixed.

There are still some holes in the roof. That was not in the that was that was on the original original when we bid it was to do and then we had the collapse and that was all part of that we we got rid of all that. The ho the the roof the holes in the roof are pretty well limited. we're able to look up and see more of the structure now, especially where we can get to the northeast corner. Um, we feel like they're pretty isolated, the structures around them, and we are working with trying to find contractors to give us rough estimates of what we need. And we'll have to go back and and figure out what we're going to need to do on getting those repairs to get the building weather tight. So, how much did we pay tri-state to start with? Somewhere in the 20,000 range. 21 something.

Okay. Then we did 249 to clean the building. Yep. And then the change order 60 U 2579. So what how much is enough after I mean at what point do we cut bait or continue on or get a developer in there? And I know I think now so at this point obviously we want to continue I would say moving forward we're going to look for um again we'll bring it you know as we need to. Um, we're we're trying to get an estimate on who will go up there and repair that roof on the holes that are in that structure. I mean, the whole goal of this is to save a building front and not have a large gaping hole,

right? And this is all not taxpayer money. There is a $200,000 donation donation. Yes, there's been a commencement and and additionally with this, we had some additional commitment on that. I don't know that off top of my head. Um, but we had some additional commitment to to carry on with this project. Um, so we're, you know, um, that's really now, uh, a developer could walk [clears throat] in that structure and see something. I mean, it's, we're to the exterior walls. You can see the sides of the space. The Yes, the trusses that were the trusses that were damaged and coming down, they're open. I mean, you can stand on the first floor and look up through the hole in the roof.

How many from both the from both the uh southwest corner and the northeast corner. So, all that debris is removed. um the trusses that are there holding um the exterior walls seem to be okay, you know, but we couldn't I mean you it was you couldn't see any of it before. So yes, now if you wanted to I mean we can start encouraging developers. We can walk people into that space. They can see the side of the space, what's left to deal with. Um you know, and we've preserved, we're still watching, you know, we're still uh watching the front of the building, making sure there's no other no another issues that arise as we go forward. The roof trusses for the most part. other than the other than the parts that are damaged appear to be in pretty good shape looking up from the bottom. Um so we think there's still a salvageable part of a structure um for our community there.

Was there any breach of water into the building to the north at all? Not that I'm aware of because they spent so much money on their business. I just wondered if there was. I I can't honestly answer that question. I don't think so, but I don't I that would probably an extra question. Thanks. If I'd like to go in and see it, I'd actually like to see what's been done. Is that something I just give you a call or is it Dexter? Uh Dexter actually has the keys to the building right now. And I think I believe he's looking you set up for Thursday maybe with Yeah. Thursday 10:00. What was the original bid?

The original bid was just under 400,000. And that was for stabiliz stabili that was for minimal debris removal to facilitate stabilizing the trusses the floor the individual floor trusses that hadn't broken and fallen originally. And then whenever Tri-State moved in there we had we had had all that rain this spring and it went ahead and collapsed and that's when Tri-State um we decided to mutually separate with what they had. So we're still staying within within the bid range. Correct. We are still under what we had originally approved uh what you as a commission had originally approved to try to stabilize what was there existing that 100,000 was still in play back then too correct

so we're at 311 currently with the change over change order and then with the roof being fixed we're going to stay under 400 or I don't know the answer to that question we are trying to talk to contractors and get some idea of cost on that versus a total re-roof versus just patch patching the holes and trying to keep going but I don't know any of the cost at that at this time the pit foundation work is done they're off correct yes okay they are done and complete [snorts] so we are trying to make the best out of a pretty bad situation can I ask about trying to sell the building is that is it out there people interested in it but

I think we have to have the check the answer to that that's um that's I I believe Kim is working. Kim's Kim's probably the person to speak to that and she is not here tonight. So, but I mean, yes, that's that's the goal. I mean, we don't want it like just like anything else. I mean, we want we want an active, productive building back into back into use for our community. Until this work was done, we couldn't even bring people into the building to to look. So, I think it says a lot about the city of Pittsburgh and what they're willing to do and that there is no consequences for bad behavior of building owners either, which we need to change that. But good job, Matt. Thank you. Thank you, Matt.

Thanks, Matt. Uh, after that information, I'm glad you explained to them, Matt, I move to approve uh item ends. Second. All in favor say I. I.

All oppose, same. I was for in favor. Uh item O, approval of staff recommendation to award the bids for exclusive contract towing service services for the period of January 1st, 2026 through December 31st, 2027 to Beans towing and recovery of where Kansas based on their bid of $85 per toll and $15 per day storage and authorize the mayor to sign the necessary documents on behalf of the city.

Good evening, commissioners. Um, city of Pittsburgh opened up bid solicitations for exclusive tow contract, which is a two-year contract obligation. [clears throat] On November 25th, Larry Barrett's body and towing and Beans Towing Services were the only ones that submitted a bid. We were open. They were still bids. They came in. They were open publicly. Uh, Beans Towing had $85 a tow and $15 a day. And Larry Barretts had $275 a tow and $40 a day. So, based on the low bid, we recommended going to Beans Towing Service.

I just had a couple questions asking to have that one pulled. uh that rate being so drastically lower, I mean the city's saving money clearly and you guys are very busy um moving vehicles. The two questions primarily I had where is the storage location for the vehicles that are towed um located? Mr. Beans has has his home base I guess or his main business in we can Kansas but he has a satellite um just a little bit south of the five south junction. Okay. So everything's out of Crawford County where the vehicles come out of Pittsburgh those we don't have anything in the city of Pittsburgh. No sir. Is there any tax revenue tied to storage of those vehicles long-term, short-term? I don't know that. I can't answer that question. I'm sorry. Well, it's coming out of the general fund to pay for that. Is it not

for us, but if it's stored there and then the individuals that are [clears throat] having the vehicle store there, it may be different for different counties. I don't know. That's why I was asking that. I'm surprised more people don't bid this other than usually it's just two. There's more people that tow. Yes. Yeah. or like on a rotation type thing. But well, this is separate from our our like if somebody's involved in an accident, hey, you need a tow truck. Well, I don't know. I'm not from here. Okay, we got to rotate unless we maintain. But that's separate. This is more for like directed like we recover stolen motor vehicle. This crime uh card has been involved in a crime or something like that.

And then that was I was asking if it was located in the city limits of Pittsburgh, if there was anything tied to it that way, too. [clears throat] But and the tax stuff was a secondary question. Okay. It's all ahead. Motion to approve. Motion to approve. I second it. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries.

Thank you. Item P, approval of staff recommendation to accept the grant agreement for the emergency solutions grant from CA the Kansas Housing Resource Corporation in the amount of $97,363 to support homelessness homeless services within our community for a grant period of July 1st, 2025 through September 30th, 2026 and authorize the mayor to sign the appropate appropriate documents on behalf the city. Hi, good evening. How can I answer any questions? How we doing? Good. How are you?

Not too bad. Reading through this, there's a lot of different movements and changes. So, I have a couple of questions. Um, this program has been stood up and we've used it for 12 years. We've used different agencies every year. No. Um, the last two years we used community health. The years prior we used Wesley House. Wesley. Okay. So is there a a request pro process for somebody to what's the process I guess to somebody get this grant and be able to use it in upcoming years?

Um if anybody is interested. So usually it has to be ran through a municipality. So we run and then um Crawford County also runs. So anybody outside of Crawford County um service agencies usually go through Crawford and anybody within the city limits can come through us. Um, we've never had anybody else interested in it other than the Wesley House and Community Health. Okay. But if anybody is interested, they would just need to reach out to myself. Um, and then we can go through a process then if there's more than one.

That answers a couple of things that I was going to ask you. Then, um, the next question is, so the reporting processes, um, go through the parent agency and are pushed above. They do report to the city monthly and quarterly. Is that ever briefed back to the commission on the usage of the funding and what they actually do with it or is it it can it never has been but it can um we do all of the reporting to the state. Um and then they report that to the federal government. So it has never been asked to be brought to the commission. Um but that is something that we can do if that's what you would like to do. Henry, is there any issues with them reporting and and bringing it to us to give us a back brief towards the end of the year on what the funding has been used for?

Oh, no. No. You can you're certainly entitled to a to a briefing on that. The only thing we wouldn't be able to do is just give names, right? So, that makes sense. Yep. Uh I'd like to make a motion uh to approve this with the amendment that the commission get a a form of back briefing um a month prior to the closing of the grant. I have one more question. I I hear you. U the emergency shelter line is zeroed out. There's nothing there. the cold weather shelter and the money allotted like last year. That was part of this last year, right? No, it was separate. Yes. Okay. So, that is something that is something that you that you guys have approved in the budget for the warming center that

How much do you have approved in the budget for that? Um I believe you guys have approved 20,000 20. Okay. So, emergency shelter. It's a more emergency warming center, right? But what is this? This is nothing. We didn't we didn't apply for anything. Oh, we didn't apply for Okay, there. We didn't apply for anything through shelter. That's why it's zero. So, the only thing that we have applied for and received was rapid rehousing, which helps individuals that are homeless, homeless prevention, which helps individuals prevent them from homeless, and then community health has street outreach. Okay. When you have rapid rehousing and homeless prevention, there's abuse across the board. It doesn't matter if it's this or HUD and that. Do you keep people from getting it if they've abused it? Do they go on a list?

Absolutely. We have a motion on the floor. I wasn't done asking the question and I said I would second this, but I had a question. So, thank you, Megan, for explaining that. But yes, yes, we do. We do have a list of individuals that have abused the program in the past that we've not received it. Thank you so much. And I did second the motion. I just didn't have a chance to ask the question before he said. Sorry, I cut you off. You're No, you're great. It's all good. So there's a motion to approve and a second. Yep. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Thank you. Thanks, Maggie.

Item S, approval of reappoint of Dr. Steve Scott to a second three-year term as a member of the planning zoning planning commission board of zoning appeals effective January 1st, 2026 and concluding on December 31st, 2028. And I asked for this to be uh pulled from the consent agenda and placed on the regular uh consider the following on item E uh where we vote on individuals to interested in uh being on this board. So that would be somebody some we would appoint two members instead of just one and uh so that's why I asked this to be pulled to move that to when we're making these appointments.

So we would be voting on three members on this list of four. No, you vote on four. I mean two. There's two openings. You could vote whoever is the top two. Okay. So you're wanting to move it from there over under consider the following. Yes. I make a motion to move that second. Uh it's been a motion to move it and a second. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Yes. And now item T, approval of the appropriation ordinance. Hang on. Okay.

So, did we approve Steve Scott getting a second or being eligible for a three-year term or do we vote to move? We just voted to move it. Just move it and you can be with the So, we didn't really we didn't really approve. No, okay. Be considered under [clears throat] the other item. Finally, you're good with that? Yeah. Item T, approval of the appropriation ordinance for the period ending December 9th, 2025, subject to release of HUD expenditures when funds are received. Did anybody I I didn't do it. Oh, I thought you wanted it. No, you it was on the first go round.

It was included in your first motion. Oh, okay. So, we I was under the assumption it was included whenever you approved all the first I just said there was one over on the far. Okay, I got you. I got you. Okay. Now, was that correct, Tammy? Uh, there was so many all the way to T in I didn't know if he was it included. It was excluded from the Oh, excluded. I'm sorry. Move to approve it. I thought there were so many. We've been moved and seconded to approve item T. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Sorry for the confusion. Motion carries. Didn't mean that.

Moving on to public hearings. I guess I'm supposed to get this. I open public hearing to a 2020 2025 budget amendment. The city of Pittsburgh ad advertised for a public hearing to be held on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 at the city commission meeting [clears throat] commencing at 5:30 p.m. in the city commission room located in the law enforcement center, 2011 North Pine to hear and answer objections of taxpayers relating relating to the proposed amendment used for the 2025 funds in the 2025 budget. This is a This is the public hearings,

right? This is the public hearings. Public hearing. So, is anybody in the audience want to speak about this in public hearing? Missy should be able to explain more detail what's going on with this and then if people have concerns. Sure. If if that's how if that's what you want to do. Are you capable of able to speak on this a little bit? Give more background to this to the people that are here. In generalities, I do. If you would, please go ahead. [clears throat]

Okay. I want to preface this with saying that I entered in [clears throat] the budget process when I started here and it wasn't until late September. So, I'm kind of in the middle of [clears throat] what happened and then um the final version of the budget. But I'm going to talk about the 25 budget amendment is what we're talking about right now. Um I'm just going to give some background. The budget amendments are um one administrative action. Two, it's a standard of standard annual procedure and it's required by the state to align the budget with the actual expenditures. This year we had two funds requiring amendments. Section 8 housing or HUD and sanitation. [clears throat] the section 8 housing the HUD as expenditures increases it really has a positive impact on our housing and in the community. So um so that's pretty standard sanitation um the commission approved expenditures throughout the year for additional trucks polycarts and the budget amendment is to align um the previously approved expenditures with the budget. [clears throat] In the last three years, we've submitted, this is pretty standard, we've submitted amendments for special parks and recck section 8 property and sanitation. I think if you look back another um year in 21, there was also section 8 again in 21 and also um I think there was special highway fund or something. So this is pretty standard. So for in a year.

All right. Thanks. So yeah, these the when we [clears throat] submit the budget, we submit it at the fund the fund level is is kind of the the floor where we have to control those those expenditures and in some cases the funds exceed their their their balance what we budgeted. In those cases we have to make an amendment to allow for those additional expenses and that's that's what's happened. It happens almost every year. To be clear, this money's already been spent. We're just adjusting the numbers to make it match the budget assessment entirely. Yeah, that's right. So, the 470 on the sanitation, 470,000 has already been spent. That's right. Towards the program. Okay. I think that's where there was some confusion.

If it was money that was being added to the budget for additional use late in the year or if it was money that was already spent. No, no, this is just to adjust to what has hap what has happened. [clears throat] Thank you, Missy. I appreciate it. All right. The name and address.

Christy Benner, 1508 Benner Court. I'd like to talk about the sanitation department numbers. Um, going back to December 2024, you know, we had just begun having established that department. Um so it was amended to 474,000 and in the 2025 budget book uh the estimated expenses for 2024 were 4439 and in the 2026 book it says the actual expenditures for 2024 were 544,362. That was over uh $7,362. I'm not sure how you spend over that when you said that's your number. But going on to now December 2025 um on the in the budget book for 25 u on page 89 and 120 you have the expenditure of $74,926 and on pages 35 54 and 100 there is um the number 756,291 to spend. And so in the 2026 budget on page 120, it says the estimated expenditures for 2025 are 671,689. So depending on which number you're using, you either have $38,237 left or $84,62. And the reason for the discrepancy in the two numbers 74 and 756 the operating ser operating services uh on page 95 of the 2025 budget that 51,000 that's in there and you add the 704,000 to it then that gives you the 756,000 which should be the total that you have for this year. So now we go on and and there's been a bunch of money

spent and um so now we've spending more for this for the polycarts tonight. And so for the years 2024 and up to December 1st of 2025, there was a total of 1686 polycarts and containers. So now you have 2,479 uh polycarts. And the budget books from 25 to 26 say there are five to eight and a half positions in the property and sanitation department that includes a director of property sanitation, an assistant director, and workers beginning in 2024. So that there was a $315,121 increase in personnel services from 2024 to 2026. And in the 2025 budget on page 89, the estimated personnel for 24 was six and the adopted 25 number was six. Well, then in the 2026 budget, the 2024 positions said only five. The estimated 2025 number was eight and the adopted 2026 number was 8 and a half. So from the schedule of positions on page 48, that's what that was. But then the sanitation division page on 88 says there were five in 2024 and 8 and a half in both 2025 and 2026. Those don't match up. And then the citywide personnel totals um there was 302 for 2024 and then 306.8 in both 25 and 26. But in your 2026 budget it says there were 304 two years ago and 307.8 8 and 25 and 26 which means those don't match either. So the city is now requesting the 2025 amended budget for a total of 1,175,000. So depending on which total expenditure to be used, that's $470,000 or a $418,79 increase to the budget. You have to ask

why. And when there are so many discrepancies from the 2025 and 2026 budget books, how can commissioners approve amending this sanitation budget increase? We need to have the information showing the necessity for such an increase. Thank you.

Is there anyone else to speak in public hearing on this?

Hi, Roger Long, 1147 South 220. Try to keep this brief. Uh, so the document that I handed out earlier shows you on page one what the actual actual percentage of increased taxation from each taxing entity in the county is. If you look inside that big red box, you'll see that the city of Pittsburgh is bringing in if the if the mill levy and the budget are left as they as they are, 8.5% more money than they did the year before in total tax revenue. If you go to the last two pages, those are actual property tax bills that friends of mine have have shared with me. I've of course wiped off the personal information, but wanted you to be able to look at somebody's actual bill. I know when when I spoke on that um in the initial um revenue neutral hearing, we were assured that it was only going to be something like a 3% increase in taxes or even a 2% increase at one point was was discussed. And we see here that the city of Pittsburgh, this is on the second box right here. This is the actual tax increase for this homeowner which is in Woodgate. Their taxes for the city of Pittsburgh are going up 9.42%. The next one, somebody who lives near Lincoln Park and theirs is going up 8.06%. That fluctuation, of course, is because of the changes in valuations. every everybody sees a slightly different percentage of valuation change based on the and then the middle levy determines actual dollars paid but we're talking an eight or nine percent increase for those two houses that those people are having to pay not the 3% that we were told on top of that going back to this thing or rather on the those statements the little bitty square at the top shows you that there's actually a mill levy increase based on the budget amount we were told that the rates are going to

stay the name the city's mill mil mill levy went up 1.152%. During that during that hearing I'm going to I'm going to quote the mayor when she was speaking. She said so let's be clear the mill levy is not going up. We're not raising the mill levy. That's what Don McN said at the uh at the meeting that we had on revenue neutral when when um Darren was speaking on it. He said keeping the mill rate constant is best practice and living off the growth. But we are not now. What's happened is because the budget was so high and because there were so many additional nonprofits, not just the hospital, because I know Jay, you and I talked about that some at that meeting. The you guys had knew the hospital situation that had factored that in. There were [clears throat] enough additional properties taken off the tax rules that the clerk had to raise everybody else's mill levy in order to make up for that. I I spoke with Lisa for at the courthouse for a couple of hours over the last couple of days learning about this process. And so now what we're faced with, we're asking for more money still. You just when when was that budget hearing that was passed? In September, I think

October.

October. Okay. Yeah. So, so you just passed a budget and we're already having to amend it because we're spending more than the budget. What's the point of a budget if that's what we're going to do? And the the fact that we're we're going to amend it higher yet still when we've already gone above what we promised the taxpayers at that meeting, which was to educate the public and hear their hear their input on this where the public was assured the mill levy was not going up. So my with all of that as background and the these are actual people who have gotten tax bills in the city of Pittsburgh that went up 9.42%. That's a that's a huge increase in the amount of taxes they're going to have to pay. And we you know we it was dismissed sometimes or or phrased as just being a few cups of coffee a week, but that's a that's a lot of coffee. And nobody's getting a 9% raise from their boss. Definitely nobody on social security is as I know that person is. Um but with that we're now being asked to raise raise the budget even higher for something that wasn't planned when we just passed the budget. What are we what are we doing if we're continually modifying a budget just a month two months after it was passed. It seems completely backwards to me in terms of proper bookkeeping and budgeting if we're having to amend budgets that rapidly. And in in this case specifically when already the taxes are higher. My recommendation would be that you actually go the opposite and at the at the bottom of page one I have a couple of motions I would encourage you to make tonight. Number number one option would be to ask the county clerk to report at the next meeting what the city's income total would be if the mill levy actually stayed the same as last year, which is what we were promised.

and then adjust the budget as needed to stay with to stay at that mill levy. The alternative option, the alternative motion would simply be to motion to cut the city budget by $220,000. That's going to roughly bring it down to that same mill rate. I might be off by 10 grand one way or the other, but that's that's going to be pretty close. I think that you simply make that motion tonight. Don't raise the budget. Lower it sufficient that the commission actually keeps it keeps its promise. And I realize DJ is new. He wasn't on that, but this is something we were told both by Darren and the mayor during that hearing that the mill levy is not going to go up. And now the mill levy is up. So are we just going to

to cut 220,000? I'm saying don't don't Yes, sir. Who you who are you going to where are you going to cut it? If if you if you all can't figure it out, then let me dig through the books. I'll bring somebody in that can understand this stuff and we'll find $200,000 to cut. I got a question for Jay real quick. I mean, so I want to be clear. I don't remember voting to to raise the mill levy. We voted to exceed the revenue neutral. So I don't think we did both. So can can you speak to that?

Okay. When we when we make the vote on the budget, all right, we put a budget together that based on the valuation and the estimates that the county gives us, we'll keep the mill levy the same. All right. We're not we don't pass a budget or propose a budget to you that's going to raise the mill levy in the final analysis when whatever the final valuations are whatever the final budget comes out to be [clears throat] there's a there's a calculation that's done by the count the by the county right that does a final valuation of what of what the mill levy is right so I I I have to follow up and look at

Sure and I and I I can kind of answer that question too a little bit Stu after talking to Lisa Lusker for a while the the legal process is that you pass a budget as Jay said based on the estimated valuations that you got and then that budget is what the clerk uses to adjust the mill rate generally just by a decimal point here or there to properly match the budget. But with the erratic property values and the large number of of uh institutions or organizations which are exempt from property tax taking more property off of enroll that then has caused this problem where we've we've now lost a bunch more a bunch more taxable property which means the people paying taxes are having to pick up the slack. And in in terms of just Lisa following her statutory duties, that means she just did the math right in the middle of your she didn't do the math herself. She uses a a software the state provides I think that tells them for these this many this much taxable property this is what the middle lev is going to be.

So it was the county that brings the No, it was it was the the budget you passed. The county then is required to look at that budget and say what mill levy will meet that budgetary process and because the city of Pittsburgh has converted so many properties to tax exempt that meant that the remaining people's taxes had to go up more that the mill had to be adjusted higher. So my recommendation to you is that Roger is that a theory or is that No, that's that's statutory [clears throat] fact.

No, no, no. I mean the the properties that we that we converted I I I don't know. I I got a list from Lisa. I'm sorry I didn't bring it with me. It was a a uh I don't know a dozen or maybe not even a dozen. Eight or 10 properties. One of them I think would be the the former best hotel that's gone from a from a taxable property previously to a non-t taxable. Um there were a number of others. I I didn't recognize them all and I didn't bother looking up. But I mean that was a vacant property. I don't think it was probably generating a whole lot of it's it suddenly has become something that we're having to raise the taxes on. was listed as

or I assume from the from the address that's what it was. I want to make note uh we're in a open hearing for the 2025 budget amendment change and we are discussing 26 budget currently u but it does roll into expenditures increasing um moving into what the next for what and I apologize I may have misunderstood that is this are we wrapping up the 20 we're wrapping up the 25 budget so at the end of the year now we've really just spent more it still affects it absolutely it's going to affect us going forward okay yeah um I know you can't speak for Lisa. Um, but did she give you a percentage of the increase or the change in nonprofits that it's making

the she she gave me a list. She can she can I'm sure just call her. She'll email it to you. Like I said, it was a single page of a six or eight or 10 properties that were added in addition to the hospital. But so we're we're faced now. So here we are, I guess. So let me rephrase that then. We're adjusting the 25 budget because we spent more than we planned and now we're saying, "By the way, we promised you guys we weren't raising mill levy, but we are."

And so, here we are. So, my my recommendation, I guess, for the 20 the 25 budget, I don't know, the money's already been spent. Maybe we should have talked about that before we spent the money. When we made the decision on the budget, the calculations all indicated and by right by by approval of the of the county that it was not going to change the mill rate. So that that was a change made after the action that this commission took. All right. So does it confuse late in all the different books though? Are we talking about two or three now or No, I think isn't the the final the final budget that two or three page thing goes to the state. That's what the county uses. Yes. Okay. Correct.

Sounds like the process is well jumping the gun of giving our numbers before they match their number.

And it was a situation according to them where the the number of properties that became tax exempt were sufficient that that total value skewed everything and and so now we're we're in a situation where in spite of what was promised the mill levy's gone up. And I guess if we're this maybe then is not the obviously not the motion for tonight. you're talking about 25, but since we're able to amend the budget, let's start looking at that real hard and figure out where we're going to chop $200,000 so we can actually keep our word and not raise the mill levy on top of already capturing a huge amount of growth. That's that's theoretical at least something to uh to consider there. I guess going back to some of the stuff I'd mentioned earlier, I would really ask you to consider these motions on page two of this document about uh what we need to do to make to get clear line of sight. Don't just ask for an end of year report from the from the housing department, but actually ask where are they how many people are they serving? Where are they coming from? Obviously anonymized. You don't need to know names, but are how many people are we serving from out of state or from just out of the area. What are we spending money on? We're here. We heard the comment asking for the recycling center to give us more money. That wasn't in the budget either going forward. Now, we're we're going to give them more money when we're already raising people's taxes over 8%.

And we didn't say we're going to give them more money. No. No. And I I fully understand. I'm just I guess expressing my my concern there that here we are in a budget amendment hearing and there no doubt there's going to be one next year as well if we don't get a real hard handle on expenses and avoid yet more of this next year where we're going to be spending more money and we're going to find ourselves nothing but a bunch of nonprofits in town with nobody able to afford to live here. I guess I'll I'm going to ask a new commissioner question because I'm I'm not tracking some of this. Um, does the city currently have this data somewhere that we're tracking in a database in in terms of the number of people served in the

the number of people served the the amount of u nonprofit? I know I I asked for the document at one point to try to itemize how many uh addresses and businesses are nonprofit in the footprint of the city, but do we own that somewhere? We have that there's there is a list of Okay. Are we asking about properties in the city that are that are tax exempt? The well those that are getting what what Roger's got on this list. Those that are getting a discounted rate or that qualify under nonprofit that aren't on the tax rules. We we can 503c1s.

We we can put that together. There's definitely a not substant all the churches are that way. All the I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of properties that that have changes, but we do have the data somewhere as well. The count the county keeps that data. Okay, I'll leave you be. Thank you. Thank you, John 1508. North D, I want to know one thing. Uh, you promised that they wasn't going to raise the mill levy and you did raise the mill levy. Did you get back with the commission

again? when we made when we passed the the budget, which is our action that we have to formally take, right? That that was a a rate that was not going to raise the mill levy that based on all the estimates we had. The county may raise the mill levy, right? No, you did. No, we voted not to raise the mill levy, but it showed up over two points that you did raise the mill levy. No, the county raised the mill levy because of the assessments. You did. You don't know what you voted on then because you actually raised the mill levy. How? Well, I don't know how, but you did. Did you vote for it?

It was never said that we're going to raise the mill levy, John. It was capturing the the re going. We voted to exceed the revenue neutral rate, which apparently after the county's computations calculations changed it. We did not ever th that that that those that language was never put before this commission like do you do we want to raise the mill levy two mill two mills and that never happened. So don't please don't say that we voted to do that. We what we voted for because the mill levy is too almost too high was then and as Jay said back to you and tell you that hey well we made a mistake. No. No.

Did they make a mistake? No. the county raised it. You know, you guys are the one that raised it because you're the one that approved the budget. So, I think I think Okay. The other thing is you got over $400,000 left from last year and there's not much time left in this year. Where's that money going to go? You're wanting to put it into the 25 budget. Why can't you carry it over to 26? Are we talking about the budget amendment? Yeah. the because we have to close our books this year with a balance in those funds. Which books you gonna close? You got three of them. We're talking about our formal financial documents. Huh? The book that book is a is a report that's comes out of our formal financial.

Why would you have three three different budgets to do? I don't understand that. Well, we have two. Taxpayers don't understand it either. We have two every year. We Every year you have two. At least at least we have the submitted budget and then the final adopted budget. at least every year that doesn't well to me you need to bring more stuff before the commission and the commission can say yes or no just like the city manager can spend up to 20 $25,000 I think that's too much anything over $5,000 you they ought to have an opportunity to vote on what do you think of that it's for them to decide

for them oh Yeah, you're going to put it back on them now. So, go ahead.

Al from Georgia, 2301 North Ralph, Pittsburgh, Kansas, and was talking about uh some of the tax exempt properties that we've had in the last seven years. We have taken out four major properties in downtown Pittsburgh. And taxes were collected then and now it's not. Uh the university has taken these over and they're they're tax exempt. Plus how many parking lots they're going to put in that's going to be tax exempt. We got churches, we got schools, we got hospitals and all kinds of hospital buildings that's tax exempt. I'd like to see a record of how many tax exempt properties are in the city of Pittsburgh. And by God, we need to let the citizens of Pittsburgh know that because we have to pick up the slack on that. And it's just not right. We need to find a way to make some of these properties that's tax exempt to pay a percentage of that exempt property. And that university out there, I love them to death, but man, they got a free ride. We pay state tax dollars that funds them. And we got RLF funds. We put in out the sales tax and the city gives them money every year, millions of dollars. And who pays that?

We, the taxpayer. And it just isn't right. We need to have some kind of control on that right there. If they can't make it on what they get. And another thing, if you want to look at Pittsburgh, you go Quincy Street and head on south. It looks beautiful. It keeps looking nicer. From Quincy Street on and go north, the further you go, the worse it looks. And the north end of town, we're tired of it. We need some help. And we need some some construction going out there. Better roads. We need better facilities and I think we got a commission now that I think will understand that and take care of the situation. Appreciate your time.

So, does anybody else want to speak public [clears throat] hearing? So, now we got to decide what we want to do. You got to close the hearing, right? Nobody else. Somebody else here. No, I said you got to close the hearing. Okay. So, I'm going to close the public hearing and now do we decide what we need to do now or approve or disapprove? Yeah, it's the amendment is is what you're going to be voting on. The two items that are in that budget. So, the money the money for this has already been spent towards uh something. So, if we don't vote for it, then what happens if we vote this down? We we are out of compliance with our our requirements.

You're too far from the mic. We need to move that. Sorry. I was questioning if uh if the commission votes this down and doesn't approve the amendment change, then what happens next? Well, then the funds go negative and that's that's a violation of of our what our requirements are for county.

We're going to catch 22. Things are don't appear right. And that's where these differences in the budget are lying. And this money's already spent so you you have to approve it. But the budget books appear wrong because you have so many. The numbers like Christy was talking about are different. People don't understand. It's confusing. So you feel like it's not on the up and up. And that I think is the general consumption that people feel like this budget was throwed together and I I really don't know what to do here. Does our finance director have anything any followup you want to

I think it's kind of unfair. Like she said, she came in this on the tail end. It's not her. I mean, it's her responsibility now, but she had nothing to do with this prior to

I think we [clears throat] um I'm not going to go through what the spending or any of that. Basically, I'm going to tell you the facts that I know. And one is the 2025. Let's talk about the 2025 amendments first. Um we need we need to have this passed. we need to in order to stay in compliance like Jay said um the things that I see section 8 if you look back multiple years for the last four years we've had to do that a lot of that is because of timing we get reimbursed on the HUD um and so it's just a timing of how the funds come in and out and it's not a lot uh when you looked at the um I don't remember what the amount was on the

difference it's not that much 37,000 there's not much difference. So you have to think about when you do a budget, we don't have a crystal ball. We do not know what's going to happen. We are doing the best case we can do in [clears throat] making judgment calls on what we're going to have to spend for the year.

I wasn't here doing this budget, but I'm saying from my perspective, what I've done before is we got to use a common sense approach and we have to say this is what we think we're going to spend. Now, if you're starting a business, I'm going to I'm going to skip over to sanitation. Now you're starting a business. Do you know do you know for sure what that business is going to make in year 1 or year two or what is what kind of demand are you going to have? You're guessing. You don't have a crystal ball. You do not know what's going to happen with sanitation. You didn't know. We didn't know there was going to be, you know, this big blowup. And we started out in January of 25. We had service income of about $40,000. Okay. by the end of this year November monthly in monthly it's now almost 70,000 so it's almost doubled so the demand has doubled I don't know about the numbers polycarts none of that I'm not prepared for that but I can tell you what the revenue was the revenue was about 40,000 in January and 70,000 in November okay in in order to we have to service them we can't just expect it to cover the cost on year one or year two how How long does it take for a business to to start off and and and to to make money? What do they say? 5 years. 5 years. We have So, we don't we didn't know on sanitation what we needed until it happened. Okay. And so, yes, we had to transfer money from the general fund into that to help pay for some of those capital costs. We we originally bought two trucks, then we had to have a third truck, right?

We bought one, then we bought a second. Okay, so now we got I think we've got three trucks on lease now.

So we got three trucks plus [clears throat] all the polycards. So you've got a lot of startup cost that that's been hitting your bottom line. Okay. And so that's a bulk of it. Is it all of it? No. But is also I think Dexter mentioned one time when we were talking and I'm trying to remember back, but the amount the cost for us to take that trash to the dump has gone up. you get you've got more more trash, it's going to go up. So, I'm just saying that for to close out 2025, we spent that money and that money was in on those capital pro capital expenditures. They all went through you guys already approved them. It's just a matter of formality. We just need to sign off in the 25 budget. Okay. The 26 budget. That's all I've got for the budget amendment. I'm going to talk about the the 26 budget. Um, this I took a comparison and snapshotted the the spreadsheet from the budget for that was presented in July and laid it up against the one that was presented in in September. Okay, there's a few things that I noted and I don't know if I've got them all here, but um the state budget summary, if you go look at that, that state budget summary did not change. So basically I said take this cell in this work worksheet for July and the same cell in September's bumped it up against and there was zero difference all the way through the state budget. So there's [clears throat] no if you go out and look at it there's not a difference in those. Okay. Um and that is what we're required to file for the state. Okay. The operating budget that was presented at the July meeting included changes made in the last moments and and they talked about that. There was some last moments before it was presented at the commission meeting. Among other minor changes the end of the revisions

there they included it included reducing the sewer rate uh that they had an increase in for the sewer rate because of the debt but they reduced that because the debt service wasn't going to start till 2028. So they had an increase in the debt in the sewer rate in the original one that they brought in. They changed that and made some changes and I think Margie Margie with AGH did a lot of that behind the scenes to help Darren out. [clears throat] But unknowingly in that there's some formulas and they've talked about this too. Um I think they talked about that in the September meeting, one of the September meetings that the formulas in the worksheet had gotten overridden. Uh they were correct. They were unlin. And so when when they were doing those last minute changes, those didn't flow through to balance the budget. Okay. So at the September commission meeting, management committed to making the corrections and recalculations to the operating budget and present and presenting it at a later meeting. Corrections were made to the account to account for the balancing entries and errors caused by the corrupt worksheets. [clears throat] The final budget was the result of those corrections. I've reviewed those differences in the two versions. The state budget certificate had no changes. And then um the most of the other changes for the operating budget, I did the same thing. The [snorts] July version, the September version, I bumped them up against there were some changes. A lot of them were no net effect. There was increase in revenue increase of just to make it balancing. Okay. So I have to tell you um there was a larger increase like 130,000 increase for the IT budget because of the website. So they did that when they made those changes. Um but all the rest of them if there was an amount it was a small immaterial amount and um most of them were if there were larger entries it was a balancing entry. Um so you know I'm I have been and I will be available um for any questions. I'll be

at the city hall if you have questions. Um, one thing I can tell you is doing a budget on an Excel spreadsheet is not fun. You are touching so many numbers, so many funds. Um, the city really needs a software that specializes in budget creation that can capture those changes and all of that. That's my I got a question for you. We have a work day when was it July about the budget in May. Huh? May. May. Um, may Okay.

Would [clears throat] it be more helpful if we had monthly meetings with about the budget on each department and see where we're at on different things? One day in May and then we approve the budget. When was that? October. Yeah. I think I think the problem with trying to I mean do a budget I mean we're going to start out in what April doing the budget for 27 for 2027. 26 isn't even going to be closed. It's not it's just going to be starting. It's hard to it's hard to do a budget based on a year that's just now getting started.

I mean and there's so many things right now as we all know. We talk about our taxes going up. What about all of our commodities are going up? I think I heard Matt say something about chemicals. Um, they've doubled, I think. So, just to stop you there, I agree with you. Everything what we buy as a city is went up. Yeah. But everything the taxpayers buy has also went up. So, we have to keep in mind absolutely our cost has went up, but we need to think about the citizens cost as well. Absolutely. Yes. So, and we need to be good stewards of their money. I understand that the citizens expect the same service whether the cost goes up or not.

Right. [cough and clears throat] Right. So, you know, we know their cost goes up. You see it every day in your in your grocery cart, you know, but if you expect the same services, at some point the cost gets to the point where it's too much, then services have to be diminished somehow, have to be taken down. Now then somebody's got to sit down extra budget x outside the budget and decide where are we going to take it down right and and one of our largest costs too is personnel. Yeah, it's always in any business any business is personnel biggest cost

and those are hard choices to make too but okay I think that's if you have any other questions I don't have specific numbers um but I know that there's a process in the budgeting and and and to bring it to the commission until it needs to be completely ready before there normally I don't think they have this many versions of the budget but I think to make it right they were trying to do the right thing in in getting the numbers the best they could by bringing in a final budget and getting it. Hey, can we in the audience? Could we hold it down a little bit? We can't hear. Got two places. One [clears throat] over here.

Thank you for coming up and explaining that. And we we understand and appreciate that you walked into a mess and we're trying to rectify that. It sounds like we're all in agreeance that this budget this year u was not put put together in a in a position to where we could all understand it exactly right. And I [clears throat] think I don't know, Mr. Mr. Mayor, moving forward, I think the commission needs to be more involved in the budget process to keep us from having these jumps. The two combined accounts here that we've talked about in this amendment, um again, the money's been spent. We do need to move this forward. Um it's almost it's over $700,000 in the last month of this fiscal year. We we definitely need to we need to rein this in and have a better idea. or not.

The issue at hand. I I'm going to move to approve the 2025 budget amendment. Second. There's been a motion to and we've already spent the money. Mhm. So, we're kind of rocking a hard place on that one. Uh motion and second. All uh in favor of approving this amendment say I. I.

All oppose. Motion passed. Thank you all for coming up and talking. Thank you for explaining the budget and where you hopefully you're going to be here this time next year and uh we have a better grasp on one budget book. Hopefully maybe we understand it a little bit better. But thanks. So moving on to property tax abatement interplast group pit plastic. The city of Pittsburgh advertised for a public hearing to be held on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 at the city commission room commencing at 5:30 p.m. in the city commission room located in law enforcement center 211 2011 North Pie to consider the request for a tax abatement submitted by Interplast Group Pit Plastic 1400 East Atinson in Pittsburgh. So, I'm going to open this is a public hearing, right? Open up public hearing.

Yeah. Good evening, mayor, commissioners. As your agenda packet says, uh we're here tonight to discuss a recent major expansion at Pit Plastics, which of course is one of Pittsburgh's longest um major employers in our community. They recently completed an $18 million expansion. Uh if you've driven by before, it essentially doubled their local footprint, which shows uh the confidence that uh that their parent company Interplast, which has multiple locations across the country, uh shows the confidence that they have in their Pittsburgh facility. Uh so in order to incentivize those kinds of major investments by uh corporate employers in our community, the city has a long-standing policy uh to incentivize those expansions. and it's predicated on uh the capital investment and how much a company is spending on an expansion. Uh so according to the city's policy and and procedures that schedule uh would allow for a 10-year property tax abatement. And I always want to make sure that anybody watching tonight, whether it's in person or watching online, it doesn't mean that Pit Plastics wouldn't pay property taxes at all. It would just be on the new edition as far as the old edition. they would continue paying what they were, but they just won't see that big increase to their property taxes uh for a period of 10 years. And that allows them to to recoup some of that upfront cost and quite frankly makes this uh facility in our community competitive when their parent company is is trying to decide where they want to make those major investments. Uh but we've got Mike Butler and Aaron Yar uh with Pip Plastics tonight that can help me answer any questions. So I don't know if the gentleman have anything to add in addition to to what I've stated.

So thank you Blake. Good evening council members. As Blake has stated, my name is Aaron Yar. This is Mike Butler. I'm the general manager for Pit Plastics in a plast. Mike is our local plant manager at the site. We're requesting approval of the tax abatement for our recently committed recently completed commercial project at 1400 East Atinson. Uh that was a long-standing investment. It did add 200,000 square foot warehouse. That was the largest investment that we've made since the 1990s. Uh, and it allows us a storage space to continue pursuing increases in our production department. Pit has been a cornerstone of the community since its humble beginnings with Gene Biknull in 1972 and currently employs more than 350 people from Pittsburgh and surrounding communities. We respectfully ask for your approval and uh of this request. And and what I will add, Mr. Mayor, is uh the city staff obviously was aware that Pit Plastics was going to be making this request because it took a while to build that expansion. Uh so it's not that was not built into the the budget. The city knew that the this request was going to be made. So the city's not counting on any of that money. But with that, we have to answer any questions uh before you open the public hearing.

I think most of us uh toured that facility. It's a great great addition. So, thank you. And how many jobs you say do do you guys employ now? Just we have 350 employees local on site. Uh, and then the warehouse itself only added a handful of jobs, but this also gives us the ability to increase our extrusion capacity for more trash bags and then that will lead to additional increases in hiring. Very good. Thanks. Anybody have any questions for him? Well, this is going back to the previous discussion of not how many how many places in Pittsburgh have a tax abatement and here we are again discussing a tax abatement.

The good thing is it's it's 10 years and it and it brings in extra jobs. There's a there's a cap on it and they've been in business since 1972 when Jean started the plant. I was a junior in high school uh when that plan started and it's been very very good for the city of Pittsburgh all this time. So

I I drove by a lot of people asked what was going on in there uh and I didn't know I had to ask questions too, but uh it does I mean it was an awesome looking building. I think it's going to it's going to benefit everybody. I understand the taxes are tight right now and everything that's going on uh on all directions, but I believe this is going to help Pittsburgh, a business that's vetted and fortified in our community. I'd respectfully move to approve the request. We're still we need to see if there's anyone like to speak. So, is anyone in the audience like to speak about this? come forward.

Last last [clears throat] time I promised I think Roger Long 1147 South 220 Street. This is something that I think a lot of us probably support because we're we're seeing two things. One, this is as as was mentioned already. This is property that didn't exist in its current taxable form because they've made these significant capital improvements to the facility and they're a major employer that contributes an immense amount to the local economy. So I think this this is something that there while there people undoubtedly that are concerned about more tax abatements. It's not taking property off the roles that has been paying taxes. This is property that if I'm understanding this right was not taxable at anywhere near this level previously because it was undeveloped. And so that's a it's pretty significant improvement plus the fact that they they employ so many people which is a a major boom to the local economy. We definitely need to encourage more stuff like this. The one thing I would ask is just that any anytime we consider any type of abatement or deal that we ask a few questions is what's what's the actual net benefit going to be in dollars? Can we prove it and do we have it in writing and how many people is it going to employ? Something that's not doesn't meet those those requirements. Maybe maybe we don't need to encourage that so much, but things like this I think are are a very good thing for [clears throat] the for the city and the area. Thank you.

Look like you want to answer that. Yeah, I'll just add something, Mr. Mayor. Um the the state requires communities like Pittsburgh when you're considering a tax abatement. Uh the applicant is is required to do a costbenefit analysis to show that the impact of the expansion is greater than the property taxes that you're abating. And so you have a copy of that costbenefit analysis. It shows that the city clearly comes out. I believe it's 30% ahead in terms of what you would be abating. Uh so that that has been addressed and we do that with every one of our property tax exemption requests to make sure that we look through the numbers and it is positive for the city. So that that has been provided to you. Thank you Blake.

Anybody go ahead George 2301 North Rouse Pittsburgh Kansas on the taxate. How long will this tax abatement be for? 10 years. Two years. 10 years.

For 10. Okay. We've done a lot of these and we did a lot when I was on the commission, too. It is a good thing. Their taxes will not go down at all. As a matter of fact, I think they're going to get caught up on the new uh tax increase as well. But on the property that they're building or expanding on, they're asking for an abatement. In the long run, in 10 years, they're going to get we're going to get higher taxes off of that building and we're going to create jobs, which means there going to be a lot more taxes from those people that move into the city. So I wholeheartedly agree with the tax abatement on this building. Okay. Thanks. Anybody else want to speak on the matter? So I'll close the public hearing on this

and I renew my premature motion to approve. So there been a motion to approve and a second. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. [clears throat] Same sign. [cough] Motion carries. Thanks for the information.

Good job. All right, moving on to consider follow Jolly Fox Brewery LLC considered the recommendation of economic development advisory committee to enter into an amended promisory note with Jolly Fox Brewery LLC for the current outstanding amount of their loan balance and an and an updated personal guarantee with Brandon Davis to secure the repayment. of the amended note. Yeah, Blake.

Yeah. Good evening again, mayor and commissioners. Uh this is a project that several people in the community are are talking about. Obviously, as the the agenda request mentions, it was back in 2019 that the city issued a repayable loan to the the principles of the Jollyox to help build that building on North Broadway. Um unfortunately for them, they opened their business in October of 2019. Then the pandemic happened. They never fully recovered from it. And unfortunately, the Jolly Fox as a business has ceased to operate. Uh but during that time, the Jolly Fox is continuing to repay its loan to the city while they seek uh to to find new owner of the building. And uh Brandon Davis, who's with us tonight, uh has personally been repaying the city's loan and making sure uh that gets done while he seeks a new owner. Um at the same time that was happening where Guadalajara is directly across from the university. That entire area has been purchased and is going to be redeveloped. Uh so Guadalajara uh was told a few months ago that they would need to find a new location by February. And so they wanted to be on Broadway. [snorts] Uh they they got in touch with Mr. Davis talked about the Jolly Fox property and they've come to an agreement. Uh but in order for for that to happen, which it obviously would be good because it would get that building back into use. It's a very uh prominent position right on Broadway, very visible. It's still a beautiful building and uh in order for Guadalajara to be able to purchase the building, uh that does need city approval. Uh so Mr. Davis came and and visited with the EDAC a couple of weeks ago and so the EDAC approved allowing that sale to to take uh take place. Mr. Mr. Davis will continue to repay the loan to the city. Uh so it will provide a new uh promisory note and personal guarantee with Mr. Davis. So the city will continue to get their money back

with interest, but it will also allow Guadalajara to relocate to uh right now a vacant building on Broadway, but again that does require city permission in order to to occur. So with that, again, Mr. Davis is here and either one of us would be happy to answer any questions you may have. What happened to the original promisary note with the three three people?

They've had some changes is and Mr. Davis can speak to it. Um those were with the Jolly Fox [clears throat] and so uh maybe that the Jolly Fox that those involved with the Jolly Fox may have changed, but um this doesn't change that. It this this agreement is still with the Jolly Fox, but since Mr. Davis is the one repaying the loan, that's what the personal guarantee will be moving forward. But the original promisary note had three three guys. There were three principles involved originally, but I don't think everybody is still involved with that project. Yeah, the original promisory note was was just with Jollyro Brewery [clears throat] LLC and that will continue. Personal guarantees was with Mr. Davis

and there was three people listed at that time. That's correct. Yes. So what happened with that? uh that guarantee will be null and void on upon entering into the new uh okay new document. So at that time it was you know you said the pandemic we've we've discussed this back before and I don't understand how we could go along and not go according to the paper that was written on and I know there was hard times but there was other people at times that got money from the city also. So, if Mr. Davis is on, is is he the only one on the promisary note? Now, what happened to the other ones from before?

The the promisory note will still be with Jolly Fox Brewery LLC. Okay. But Jolly Fox Brewery LLC, according to county records, shows it still as Joel Stewart. So, I'm just I'm confused about that part.

So, we've uh we've modified our operating agreement such that the ownership is myself and just the other original partner. and Joel Stewart's no longer an owner because he contributes nothing to what we've been trying to do to to mitigate our losses and obviously get get the building sold and get everybody paid back. So, you know, this is just a way for us to kind of move forward with that piece of it. Um, you know, I personally would like to, you know, obviously have everyone sharing the and the cost, but you know, I'm I'm kind of stepping in and honoring the commitments and making sure things happen just so we can get get this deal behind us. So, that's where we're at right now. my other other partner, he's helping with, you know, our first mortgage, which is not going to be covered up by how much we're selling the jolly box for. So, we still got some some some money to be paid there. So, him and I just kind of agreed to split it up and I'm taking care of this one. He's taking care of that one and that's what we're left to do.

So, the money that's being paid back to the city, the 200,000 plus the interest and everything, you've got an amortization of what they've paid and how it's occurred. So, did it follow the guidelines that they signed the original documents? Did it follow that with what was written on paper? We came back to you a couple of years ago when when um the reset wanted and we didn't I we didn't ever vote on that. I I didn't I think you did we vote for the reset? I think you had to. No, I don't think we did because at the time we didn't realize that nobody was paying on that 200,000 for how many years?

Well, there you know at that very beginning stages there there was so many missed payments and I don't even know if you were even involved.

No, I was. So, you know, obviously we you know six months into we hit with the pandemic, right? So we had to close our doors for a period of [clears throat] time and then we had deferrals from the SBA loans that we had and such and and you know working with you know the economic development team and kind of be in communication with them as far as you know trying to rebound oursel and having you know the the opportunity try to you know put money into the business keep employing keep the business going to let it rebound and then once we come to the conclusion that wasn't going to be the case I don't know if that's I mean I don't know all the exact timelines you know effectively but you know obviously our obligation has always been to color the city up and make sure things were made made whole. And so in con communication of that once we came to an agreement of me starting to pay you know weekly payments [cough] of $500 a week to get an amortization to continue and get going again. Again I don't know know the timeline when we came to that agreement but once we made that agreement all those payments have been made. I've been making it personally.

So it was principal only or principal and interest and interest. Okay. So $200,000 at $500 a week. So much goes the principal so much goes the interest. So what is the balance right now? The re the balance commissioner or mayor manel had asked about that last week. Um I believe it's 168 is is what the the principle is. So I don't know I haven't looked at who who keeps track of that in the city. The city. Yeah. Know what department? Finance. So they're currently up to date on the on their existing agreement. Everything's where it's supposed to be. Up to date as of when? Like from the past to the present? about the date is when we made our agreement to me to start making payments. He's been making regular payments for for many months.

Maybe. But what about prior to that? Well, longer than that. Probably about a year. What about prior to that? Prior to that, we the gap Yeah, the gap period. Like say we we worked out a deferral or a non-payment based on the pandemic and the stuff we dealt with. And so you worked it I'm just trying to understand it. Sure. You worked out it with who? The finance department or the city or how did that work? Yes, I guess I'm just Yeah, it's not. Yeah, I'm just making sure that I know we're going to get our money back. Absolutely. With the interest and everything, but it hasn't made sense from the beginning. And I know a lot of it

if fell with the pandemic and you know, people had trouble. But there are people that still, not just you guys, that were in the same boat that they continued to do what they were doing and they didn't have the mispayments. And I think that's where it got confusing and then it was like the paper that it was written on was you know they weren't following what they agreed to in the beginning. So that's where I'm I was lost at and I asked a lot of questions back.

Yeah. And so you know the entity you know and I was I'm a minority owner was a minority owner in the July Fox. So I wasn't running the dayto-day. I was kind of investor and you know helping you know you know bring something to the community that we we hoped would be successful. So, uh, stepping as a guarantor, you know, voluntarily to, you know, rectify the situation is basically what I've done here. Um, just because, you know, I value my relationship with the city and the community and also, you know, want to make sure that we move this building into something that's that's usable and and, you know, obviously not not a drain on us or or the community as a whole. So, uh, the adjustment of this this this agreement too, I know it's been been said, puts it on a three-year term. So, we paying off, you know, relatively quickly, uh, and accelerating it and getting almost back on on schedule to where it would have been paid off originally.

So, you're saying that if if the building is sold to Guavajara, are you renting it or selling it? We're selling the building. So, if you sell it, does the city get their money during the sale or it doesn't? I'm short selling the building. So, we we owe uh considerably more than what the building is appraising for. We uh, you know, put a lot of money in that building, but we can't, you know, sell it. We only sell for some Guam Har is not going to use the the brewery tanks, right? Yeah. And so we we're obviously trying to sell the brew equipment separately even as the building itself. We we're getting about 50% of what we paid to build the building.

Well, I just want to say I thank you for stepping up and at least making payments on the money that we approved to taxpayers money approved to give you for that building, the 200,000. And I don't have a problem with you. I'm I'm glad you my man is stepping up and pay there.

The issue I had was not knowing that payments weren't being made until Blake came with a new plan to wipe off the entrance that was owed and come up with a new agreement. And I I to me we didn't know before how many payments was missed. 47 47 payments. We had no idea. We approved to spend taxpayers money for $200,000. And why weren't we told uh that they weren't making payments until they wanted to You were told you were we were in a meeting right back there. Exactly, Doc. After they weren't making the payments,

right? So, would you not have wanted to know they weren't making the payments until they weren't? Well, I sure obviously. Well, I mean, I I'm I'm approving taxpayers money to be spent. And what do I tell them when we're not getting the money back that we approved that they said that? So, long story short, I don't want this to happen again. If this happens, we need to know when, and not just you, anybody that we give taxpayers money to and they're not paying us back. I want to know before 47 payments are miss. And I put that on EDAC committee. I have a question.

So Blake, you said um that gentleman's going to continue to make payments. Water is going to occupy and purchase the building. So water has no ties to this repayment whatsoever. They're just free and clear of it. Correct. Okay. So what does the city So we still have a secondary position on the mortgage to hold. The city typically has a second position. As Mr. Davis said, given that he is selling the building at a loss, that second position doesn't mean much because the bank that's in first position will get the entire sale price. Yeah. So, that's what I'm trying to understand better. Um, so what does we'll still have that guarantee on Mr. Davis,

but what's the collateral for the guarantee that he's We could go after we could go after him personally if he goes into any of his assets. Yeah. [clears throat] And as long as you're paying what you're saying. Yeah. Not long since we entered an agreement. I've not missed the payment. Yes, sir. Sure. Yeah. Okay. That's that's one of the questions. Thank you for stepping up. Is there any other questions for If not, I entertain entertain a motion to approve. A second. I I'll make a motion. I have a motion. Is there a second? Second.

There have been a motion and a second to approve. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Motion. Thank Blake. Thank you again. Item B, lease purchase agreement 2025 public works and utilities equipment. Consider staff verbal recommendation to enter into a 7-year lease person agreement for equipment for the city's public works and utilities department and the city park department with [clears throat] financial instructions providing the best interest rate and annual payments.

Good man commissioners. Um, as part of your packet, I believe you received um we went out to take bids for um a number of different pieces of equipment to update our fleet overall. Um at the end of the day, we we put it out for a 7-year lease. We we received 11 bids. Um which is great with a 3.7 uh% interest rate. Um so we're looking at um and I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you have. Um but uh Clayton Holdings was the was the low bidder on Friday um out of 11 bids. So um which is um the holding company of Commerce Bank. So which we've done a couple other uh lease purchases with and that would be our recommendation to move forward this evening. With that I'll answer

even though you're buying from other places. We are buying we are buying Clayton Holdings will will hold the note um for everything, but we are we are buying multiple pieces of equipment utilizing STCO and utility operating for the related departments. I bet you'd like to have 11 [clears throat] bids on all the things you do [laughter] people like me. I don't know. Matt, all this equipment a great deal. All this all this equipment you're replacing. Yes. Is the old equipment that we have now still operational?

Um, [sighs] let's see. Uh, one of one of the big pieces of equipment that we're getting is, uh, the oil distributor, the attack truck for a street department. That was that was that's 25 years old. We've done a couple of large large u repairs on that piece of equipment. We will keep it until it's just absolutely dead as a backup because between us and the county, we still need it from time to time. So, we won't put it out for salvage immediately. Um, but it's it's dying. It's 25 plus years old. The um uh the rubber tire loader, which is another fairly large purchase. Um that uh we originally had a uh DER loader and a Kamasu that are both dead. They're both done. They were bought in the early '9s. Um they're both gone. We replaced one of them with with a small case loader to get us by because we knew we were on borrowed time anyways. And now that time has come to replace that uh one of the uh backhos for our utility department um that is uh we will pass down uh right now I'm holding a note for 26,000 for a streets backhoe to be repaired with a transmission. So that will go to the street and we will um pass the one from water distribution down as a secondary backup for the street department. Um the other alternative backhoe for the parks department, that's a John Deere that was bought in the early9s. This is time to go. So it'll go to the street. Um I can't think off the top of my head what else I have, but the majority of it Yes. If it if it majority of it, if it's done, it's done.

So what do you do with it? Do you put it on purple wave? We'll put it on purple wave. So yeah, you'll get something for it. Yep. We'll get something for it. All right. Sounds good. Yeah. The the actually the Mini X that's going to replace for the parks department, that was the one at the cemetery. It's dead. It's actually already been sold. There was no repairing it. It was It was 40 years old, too. So, it's already actually gone. Yeah. So, all right. Thanks, Matt. Yep. Is there a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve. Been a motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. So, it's been moved and second. All in favor say I. I. Oppose. Same sign. Motion carries.

Thank you, Mayor. Item C, fire station number one, HVAC system upgrades. Consider staff recommendation to enter into an agreement with Saturnly Plumbing to implement a replacement HVAC system to provide enhanced efficiency and reduce maintenance at fire station number one in the amount of $26,139. How long has fire station one been in existence? 2008 we moved in. We moved in in 2008. 2008. Yeah. Okay. So, we're looking at 15,000 plus give or take a few pennies for each of these HVAC systems.

Yeah. Correct. Give or take. Yeah. The others are not serviceable. Uh that is all of the units. What? That is all of the units in the building. They are toast. They're 13 units. 17. So, you're replacing them all? What's that? 17 years. 17 years. 17 years. Yes. But we're only replacing 13 according to what the thing Yeah. They're they're more efficient than they are now. So we can service more rooms with single units and so forth. So we don't have 13 right now, do we? No, we've got a completely different design. Different whole different

Yeah. So in 2008 when we moved in, we had a boiler and chiller system with a cooling tower. We're abandoning that as the cost for the boilers and the cooling towers that have started to fail exceed the cost of just replacing with individual units. Some of the plumbing in the building has started to degrade. It's got rust and metal in it. Uh so it is more efficient to go to individual units energy-wise. So it's not an apples to apples. What we had before, we had five units that could do the whole building, but now there's 13. So this is going to make it healthier for the firemen that are housed in Absolutely. Just

Yeah. Over the last three or four years, we've had a lot of situations where, you know, they've had to sleep in different rooms and so forth and huddle up together because the units just had failed and we were waiting on emergency repairs. We've done the best we can with the boilers. We're still going to maintain one of the boilers that's running pretty well for the ice melt for the drive for the apparatus. Uh, but as far as living quarters and so forth, it'll all be brand new. So, in the process of switching over from the old degraded unit to the new units, will there be time where the firemen aren't in the station or not to be? It'll be We should be able to do this uh perfectly in line. What's the What's the window of time for this to be

at 90 days is what Sadderly said that it would take for them to get it all done, which is kind of puts us in our sweet spot. The equipment will probably show up close to closer to February if we get it, you know, placed by the end of the year. It won't take them that long after that and you'll make it through the winter. So, as a sidebar here, yeah, station two's HVAC system when you did the repairs recently, that wasn't included there. The HVAC was not included on like station two. Not on this bid. I said, "No, it was they were all replaced at station 2 when we remodeled and rehab air system there."

Yeah, they have all brand new units, air scrubbers, ervs, the whole works, all new duct work as well. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, forgive me if I misread this, but is the money paying for this adjustment coming from the safety? No, this is coming out of the building contingency funds that were left from the Okay. Yeah. Do you think when they spec that building out, it was supposed to be like, you know, the greatest fire station ever and it didn't hold up like it I think that original system was was it state-of-the-art for its time? I think that was it was appropriate from an engineering standpoint. Was it um I'm not sure it was 100%

17 years doesn't seem like a lot of time for the amount of money that went into that. So it it it takes a lot to keep it up and running. It's a large building and the apparatus it takes [clears throat] quite a bit. So, we feel like this is our our best chance to keep our our people and the building good. Good. And we did go to bid and we we took the low bid. So, and Saturdayly's been their player. Oh, yeah. Sadderly's been a great partner for the city. The other ones installed the original system, correct? Uh they were they did part of it. They've done part of it. Yeah. So, the you're talking about the chiller that the big unit that sits outside, is that gone? That will be gone.

We shouldn't need that anymore for the residential units. They'll all be like a mini split. Uh there will be a concrete pad poured up behind the building where you'll see the units. Will it Will we have Will we incur [clears throat] a cost to take the chiller and all that down? It's included in this. It's included. Okay. Mhm. Any other questions? Is there a motion to approve? Move to approve the upgrades. Second. It's been moved and seconded three times. Uh take uh all in favor say I. I.

Close. Same time. Motion carries. Thank you, Jeff. Item D, H Heartland Business Systems Agreement. Consider staff recommendation to enter to into agreement with H Heartland Business System for the imple implementation of a replacement data center disaster recovery environment backup solutions and various switching improvements in the amount of 1 million139,9365 through a lease purchase over a 5year annual cycle.

Uh mayor, commissioner, thank you. Um over the last 15 or 20 years, we've been in a replace cycle with doing our data center every five years. We've done it on a lease purchase and so forth. Uh 7 years ago, that lease purchase ended on the existing data center that we have uh and we started building a proposal at that time to kind of replace it. At that time, the industry had some pretty major shifts with some of the software and hardware manufacturers not getting along so well and prices just went through the roof. Um to a point that we didn't feel that the design, the proposal or anything that it was really that sustainable for the city of Pittsburgh. We thought at the time that it would probably be resolved within a year and that the industry would be there. We're two years later and that has not really happened. The costs are still extremely high and through the roof. So, we decided to take uh proposals for a brand new design from our existing partner that we've done this with for the last 15 years and a couple others. We received two proposals um one from Hartland and our incumbent. We're here to select Hartland's proposal. Um, with that being said, our existing system is 2 years out of warranty, 2 years out of support, and two years out of updates, but we we figured the cost factor was we can we can handle that for a while. Well, we're kind of at our our end on doing that. So, we have to make a decision. This proposal is a little different than what we've done in the past. We have designed the system to move away from the partners that sort of abandoned us with the costs. Um

so we we do have a new partner with us at this point. Um it would be spread out over a 5-year. If it was approved tonight, we would go out to a lease purchase, get that. We would come back and it would have approval for that. Uh it's not out of line with our costs. we actually reduced our cost from what we would have done seven years ago. Uh and we're getting quite a bit more out of this. What this proposal does, I think uh Mr. Lamchack had mentioned at the beginning during public input why we would do things and have things here on prim rather than just in the cloud. And it's almost 100% a cost savings to keep it still some of it here. Most of our systems, our critical systems, we are migrating as quickly as we can. Our financial, our law enforcement, our email, our phone, those are moving to the cloud. Those are not cheap when you move to the cloud. They they come with an annual reoccurring cost that is far greater than the cost of running it in-house, but they're advantages. So, all critical systems, we're moving as quickly as we can to do so. We actually sized this data center to be a little smaller than what we've had in the past because we have offset quite a bit of our compute and our storage. Um, however, there are still quite a few things that we just have to do inhouse um in car cameras, body cameras.

What uh what bucket does this come out of? Public safety sales tax is what we've done in the past because the majority of the cost for this is for public safety. So, it's a fiveyear

a five-year commitment on this this new system, the Nutanix design with H Heartland Business System, which I have two people here, one from Nanix if you have any questions, and one from Hartland. Uh, they can come up and answer any questions. Um, it's not a fi every 5year you just have to replace and and kind of move in that direction. It's more incremental. We can adjust accordingly during our our time. So, it kind of scales with us up and down. which we're obviously kind of scaling down from the on-site to the cloud. Uh so we feel like this positions us better for the future. It it is a a sizable amount of money, but it's appropriate for uh the two proposals. We've selected the the cheaper of the two. Jeff, if [clears throat] you're going to use the public safety sales tax, I assume that that means the law enforcement software and like you [snorts] started to mention incar video and body cameras. I assume probably some video cameras as well across the city. Um they're probably the biggest user or

Oh yeah, the lion share of storage and compute comes from there. There are other things that you have ancillary impacts. I mean, if I was designing this just for a water utility, it wouldn't be a fraction of this. But we are in a datadriven society with law enforcement, fire, so forth, and those require for emergency 911 and dispatch top-of-the-line first grade equipment that you can rely on.

Did I Did I hear you wrong? Didn't you say you're moving moving law enforcement to the cloud? some of the law enforcement like our new world uh software that we share with the county and uh pit state the it will be hosted up into the cloud. However, a lot of the other resources like video storage and car cameras, body cams, drones that all just has to be stored somewhere and paying a monthly rate to store it somewhere else rather than having it here on much cheaper storage. Now this proposal, one of the questions asked was our backup is why wouldn't we have a backup in the cloud? This proposal absolutely does that. Uh it does a backup on site, it replicates it to our DR, our disaster recovery, and then it pushes it to the cloud. So you kind of get that trifecta of if we have a disaster here at this building, which is where our data center is, we can roll locally to our disaster recovery. But if we have a global outage or so forth, we could always go to the cloud and recover our data.

We go did we go to a bid process on this? Uh not necessarily bid. It was a request for proposal to get the proposals. So we in the past we've used Dell Technologies. We have [snorts] used Dell Technologies, but we haven't bid this out yet. We we did Dell actually submitted uh two or three proposals to us for this. Um we did not select Dell.

The other thing I'm sorry. No, we did not select Dell this time um due to the the costs um and frankly the partnerships that they have had with us with VMware which is the virtualization technology. That whole debacle is why we're exactly where we are at right now 7 years after the fact. Um I'm not really for sure VMware really wants us to be their customer. Just just uh so what we're saying is we're going to dip into the public safety fund for 227,000 for five years, right? Is that going to hurt the fund at all?

No, that's what we had been doing for the previous 15 years. We actually just haven't dipped into it at all for the last two years. We've just kind of held our ground. That money's been coming out of the I'm sorry. It has always been coming from that source. [clears throat] Yeah. Where are we at? We're projected to have about a million dollars in in surplus in that fund. And when is the when is the rotation date on this current safety fund? When does it expire? We got about I think we have seven more years. Seven more. Yeah, we're within that. How much does it? Yeah. 2 million a year public safety fail. Mhm. And Jeff. Yes, sir. I know you said it request for a proposal. Mhm.

I would have liked to seen what Bill's proposal was cost.

I can tell it to you. It's not exactly apples to apples to what we selected. Um it was 1 1.5 million I think or 1 1.2 million. Yeah. So it's about 100,000 cheaper with Heartland. But the applesto apples component to this. We are not getting a full-size DR with the Dell proposal. We're going to have a production environment that can handle all of our needs. Our DR site would be about 60% capacity. So, we are going to have to make choices. If we go to disaster scenario, what we can turn on, what we can't, because we don't have 100%. The solution we've proposed with Hartland, it is 100% across the board. Um, we also get top switching, which wasn't included with Dell. So bears, if you were looking at apples to apples, I mean that number could go up another half a million.

Were those the only two in the RFPs that submitted proposals? Yeah. And we had different uh variations from each like with with the Dell proposal that we received. There were different options on that like how do you want to do your cloud backups and so forth. Um but apples to apples. How long will it take to implement this? Probably about 60 days after everything comes in. It it really won't take that long. There's some process of migrating from where we're at to this. Uh but we we don't anticipate that taking too much longer than a month, month and a half. Hey Jeff, once the equipment shows up, help me understand something. When you put it out there for bid or pool or proposal? Yeah.

How do you draw from I mean do you do you have so many days or months it sits out there and Oh, we've been working Yeah, we've been working on this design proposal for almost a year, year and a half. But but when you put it out there for people to see and say companies and say they want to bid on it, [snorts] how long is it out there before you close it? We didn't. We we let it stay open for almost a year and a half just waiting for people to see if anybody would pick it up. Yeah, we we had to. And honestly, it's it's a pretty unique system designwise. So it's it's pretty hard. It's one thing to bid a a Caterpillar truck or an HVAC, but sure

a custom design build. So during that year or whatever, how much has changed since when you started compared to now? Are you behind the the No, no, actually we're we're pretty ahead. We're we're feeling pretty comfortable with this solution. Our staff isn't really as well versed with the Nanix solution, but built into this proposal is the training, the hand over the hand, and the migrations. So I feel like it'll it'll come on pretty easily. That was going to be my question. This is this is going to be over a 5year lease purchase. So you're not going to come back in six years from now and say, "Hey, we got a we got a another something has been out there a lot better than this."

Well, I hope there's something a lot better in five or six years. Hopefully, we have a lot less stuff on prim uh on premise. Uh there will always be better and newer improvements in the technology world. Five to seven years from now. Will this be updated as we go? this proposal with Nanix they there is a certain uh amount of incremental upgrades we can do as we go but the age of equipment is just the age of equipment it's it's like a 25-y year loader for for Matt when it's done it's it's done [cough] um this equipment will last [clears throat] longer than 5 years for sure um that's just what we've done in the past

so it just gets you that far into the future and at that time whenever you see it's slowing down then you start looking again. Pretty it is. We've had a a really good run with our current proposal, our current system with Dell and so forth, but it's aged out. I mean, we're starting to see failures and recovery points and you can't get the security updates anymore and just we really start getting our hands tied and our options are pretty limited if we had a major hardware failure at this point being out of support. Well, one thing about this coming out of the public safety sales tax, it's just not paid for by the property tax payers of Pittsburgh. It's paid for whoever comes to town. Yeah. And help pay for this thing. So,

yeah, that's a good deal. People are still paying. Citizens are still paying for it though. Right. Right. [snorts] But other citizens, not citizens, but other people are also help paying for it. We've got two different um organizations here to to pitch their their want and need for this and you've you've kind of suggestedly decided out of the two which one you want to go to. Um this is a grand scope of things and so our current system right now is still functional. This is not an urgent urgency nightmare situation.

No, we're out of we're out of support. We're not getting software updates from it. uh if we had a major hardware failure, I'm not sure we could get replacement parts very quickly. We could be sub substantially down for a period of time. So, there is a certain amount of urgency, but it is running well to what you're saying. So, uh but it does need addressed. So, what's it cost to take that system out? That's included in this. That's included.

Absolutely. Turn. Yeah. I I would like [clears throat] to hear from both companies, both groups to hear what they had to say, but complexity of this I think maybe we need more time to look at it. In my opinion, again, I'm new, but I would like to have a little more sit down time with you and sure, you know, in this environment, but we'd like to maybe just, I don't know, piece this together so it's not just, you know, a short brief. Uh, but I would like to hear what they had to say. Sure. Is there enough time between now and the next meeting? Say again. Is there enough time? Are we going to have another meeting in December?

We haven't got that far yet. [laughter] Well, we would like to have it something inked in place pretty quick. I mean, yeah. I mean, if we have another meeting in the before the end of the year and we could get it back on there, we could probably do that pretty easily. If we have to wait another month or so, I mean, that's a lot of that's a lot more risk because sometimes it Well, it's just a matter of time. But you've been risking for two years. We've been risking for two years pretty hard. Um, but the proposals have come down in price quite a bit, too. But they're still pretty It's just the way it is, I guess. So,

well, how long He can come up, but how long is this How long is this price good for? Um, I'm not sure. You can probably 30 days. 30 days. This is Scott. He's with uh H Heartland. And that's Mike. He's from Nanix, the software and hardware manufacturer. If you have any questions, let's hear your spill. [laughter] I'm Scott Mazdick. I'm the general manager of Hartland Business Systems. Um, so we're an IT services company. We sell hardware, software, professional services. Can I stop you for a minute? Have you ever worked with city of Pittsburgh on anything? Uh yes, at a former employer. Oh, you were? Yeah. At a at a former employer of Converge One. Okay. Uh we we did

work with this team. That's one thing that he hasn't talked about is that there's [clears throat] there's technology movements. There's also personnel movements. Okay. And we keep track of that. Yes. It's pretty fluid in our industry right now. So go ahead. Yeah. Heartland Business Systems. We're headquartered in Little Shoot, Wisconsin. We're a privately held company. Uh we've got about a thousand employees and uh it's a very very talented organization. Um but we we we work with all the manufacturers including Dell. So they're they're a strong partner of ours as well. And just in this situation the nutanic solution uh seem to be the best fit and I'll from a any technical questions I'll defer to Mike. But any questions for me about Harland Business.

Who's your primary customer? like education or or municipalities or we do we have a large commercial and enterprise presence and we also do a lot of sled business state local and education so we do quite a bit of public sector business as well. So this [clears throat] type of system have you implemented one of these in this these parameters before Oh yeah and so there's there's vetted information out there that's working and yes this made sense. Yes. One of the uh transitions that that you were referring to where Dell had a part of their business VMware that they sold to Broadcom has driven companies like Nanix to uh be a really good fit as a replacement for Dell.

Yeah, we I used to work for Dell. I've been in this industry now for about 15 years. I was on these guys side of the fence working at KU Med Center. I'm from Tha. So, I just drove out this evening and I've seen this, you know, personnel changes and company changes and so when when I first started doing this, I got kind of jumped the fence from being in the public space at KMED work for the state. Um, I didn't really know what to expect. I understood budgets for physicians group and uh nonprofit, but what everything that they've been talking about today is kind of on par for the industry. what you're saying is unfortunate, but being at Dell is there for eight years. I tell folks that seven years too long to work at Dell. It's a really ginormous company uh that wields a lot of power and I respect Michael Dell, but as things get bigger, it's harder to look out for the smaller folks in general. Uh their largest partner is called Broadcom and uh it used to be another company called VMware, which was a darling of our industry. And what happened over the series of years is that they were bought and sold many times. Michael Dell bought them at one point and owned them. It was a great partnership. That's they were the benefit y'all were the benefit of that partnership. What happened is when Michael went back private again, bought his own company, right? uh he spun off that arm which was VMware and Broadcom who's kind of worldrenowned for just screwing stuff up in our industry bought him and that has been just a nightmare for small businesses across the planet. If you're not in the Fortune 20, they don't really care about you, unfortunately. And um and I hate to say that because I've been in this industry a really long time, over 40 years now. And um they were like I said they were

the darling company that I joined six years ago was a startup uh you know six years before that and um we didn't have any intention of competing with VMware we were their number one partner and we went to the government and and we met with the government department of defense they said hey we like your solution uh but we don't like VMware's product because it's an insecure product and they said, "What can y'all do?" And our founder said, "Hold my beard." And went back to California and wrote a competing product. And at that point, we've been maturing that for right on uh 13 years now to the point where we're now able to compete uh handinand uh with VMware. But just so we're really clear in this room, we don't compete with Dell. Uh they're our partner. They've been our one of our longest partners in existence. In this instance, uh we are kind of competing with Delta. I'm fortunate. They've chosen that path and that's their prerogative. But what we offer you guys in the city is the ability of freedom of choice from a hardware platform. My company is not a hardware platform any longer. We used to be 15 years ago, but that's how you get to market is you have a box and some software. We don't do that anymore. We're just software only. So if you wanted to uh today this the solution is built by a company called super micro they make servers pizza box you know basically you put in uh put let's say in in uh 5 years that you weren't happy with the pizza boxes or you want a change of what it looks like you could buy Dell

put it right in and our software works just fine and it's identical it's the same there's no downtime anymore so that's kind of what we do differently is give you the freedom of choice of hardware clear, [clears throat] make it seamless so that you're not having to spend, you don't have to spend every five or seven years a big budget item. If you wanted to, you could budget this very strategically year-over-year and grow it a little bit at a time or deincrement it as you need. And as you deincrement and you want to go to the cloud, our software works in the cloud as well. You don't have to reby a license. You can just move that to the cloud and use the same the guys are going to be trained on our solution. that skill set transfers to using in the cloud. So that's kind of the value what we bring there is just ease of use, simplicity, lower power and cooling.

Yeah. All those things there. So it looks like the majority of the costs in the in the itemized list would be licensing. I mean that's the that's the lion share of the that's true cost of the project. That's true. And that's that's true on both proposals. I mean that's Broadcom is the same way. our our licensing model works very similar to theirs. Uh you know, it's no secret everyone has a subscription service in our industry now. Um I'm not a big fan of that. That's just the way it works now. Uh but just to give you a scope of this, the city of

the city of Topeka is uses our solution. Uh you know, Kansas City traffic uses it. Uh city of St. Joe, Missouri uses it. Witchaw public schools whom I know really well. They were my former customer, currently customer. Blue Valley School Systems, you know, Melissa goes on. We have a lot of municipalities and cities that use our solution. Uh it's very cost effective that way. So you you won't be alone, let's put it that way, in the region. So we continue to grow that. Questions on this licensing. Does that make sense what I was saying, guys? No sir. Does it make sense? I'm sorry. Yes, sir.

Okay. I saw I saw a head shaking there. Like, oh no, what did I miss there? Any other questions? I don't think so. What was what was you wanting? So, I think it's the broad spectrum of this and the the amount I mean we're looking at pulling a quarter of public safety fund for five [clears throat] years on this new system. I would like to see I guess maybe I don't know one. I don't know. of just a a walkth through of how this will work after a presentation essentially of your services as a completed product. That is that normal? No, that's a fair shake. I appreciate what you're saying is like, hey, you want to be able to see what you're getting right ahead [clears throat] of time.

I can appreciate that. That's very budget conscious and I think it could be provided for you. So, it may not be me doing that. It might be another group, but but you're going to be around for a while. I live in I live in Neither of them are going. I live in a um my counterpart lives in Overland Park who is your representative. I'm here he's in California being trained today. So I'm here as his representative and for y'all. So I drove up for that. So So and I'm I know you will. But it you will spend time with our staff training on this new 100%. Yes. Absolutely.

Yeah. Actually part of the design was they we asked for them to do it hand overhand with us. So kind of train the trainer. We'll be involved during the whole process cuz ultimately when when they're done, we still have to maintain it and support it, you know, at 2:00 in the morning. So, we'll be involved the whole time. And our support staff, the way this works is I I cover enterprise space in Kansas City. So, H&M block, Garmin, those folks. And Bill, my counterpart, covers state, local government. Anytime, and I'll put this in perspective. Today, I'm at my computer and I get a a ticket saying it's priority three. It's a lower-end priority from uh Kansas City Southern. It's one of my customers. Yep.

And so I'm very attuned into when Kim submits a ticket, he puts a P3 on it. I don't have to call him. I know I've got a great support staff that handles these things for us, [snorts] but I always call my customer. I know Bill, my counterpart, does the same thing for his customers, whether it's a P3, low-end ticket, or P1, which means my hair's on fire. I got to do something about it. That's why mine's gone. Uh basically uh we as uh engineers local love to you know uh white glove our customers the best we can even though we have support staff that do it full-time we get involved because it's these interactions face to face which really matter the most. So,

so I'd like to entertain a motion to table this uh item uh in lie of getting a a deeper quality explanation and presentation of the service and how it'll affect the changes. The only thing I'll say about that is is I I mean this is one of those situations where I can see a presentation and honestly if it's much past a power button and a mouse uh you're going to be over my head. So I mean this is a this is one of those things where Jeff and his staff's been working on it for over a year. I I personally feel like this is where we trust our department heads and and employees to know what's what they think is best and this isn't a want or a need. It sounds like this is a need. Um so that's just my two cents on that.

Well, I hear what you're saying, Stu. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I understand DJ's a new commissioner and he wants some some more information and I don't see where that would hurt. uh we could as long as we have another meeting in December and the president what do you want from just I don't know how much time you need to put something like together I know we're discussing you know I think it's best if you get a hands-on approach to that you know proposals in place from Hartland and our and our company nutanics [snorts] I think going and visiting your IT department if you want to see what it looks like walk you through that stuff right yeah and that's something again

I think that's hands-on positive. You sound like the same guy I am, right? Which is go in and touch it. Show me what you're doing so I understand a little bit better. Get educated. Now, you may not know it. You're right. You may look at it and go, "Well, those are blinky lights. Great. What do those blinky lights do and why do we need them here versus in the cloud?" And that's look, you want to educate yourself and I appreciate that. And that's what we do. Um, my role as an engineer for my company is to do just that. Second a motion to table it. Yeah. Well, there's been a motion and a second to table it. Uh, all in favor say I. I. Nay. All oppose. Same sign. N. Okay. Wait till I ask for it. Thank you. Thank you.

And like I said, we need to have something set up sometime next I'll reach out. Yeah. What's your what's your window like for your broadcast? When's that? Uh, we're passed. I mean, we're passed on it.

So, the only risk that you have just I can expose that again. I know he's mentioned it. I'll I'll pull back the covers on it as an engineer. Um you have we have an industry which certifies um when black hats do bad things kind of like police have uh systems you know in place when they know when someone's they run you through the system right we have a similar way of doing that. Um as you can imagine there's a lot of possible intrusion points and the older systems get uh the more prone they are to attack. There's more surface area to attack. Yeah. And um it's not so much that the hardware fails, it's that the software can't be Now look at your laptops. If you got an old laptop,

how easy is it for it to be hacked or compromised, get malware or something like that? The same applies why Microsoft does away with Windows XP. You can't run that anymore and so on. So Jeff, could we do this in a week? I Yeah, I can coordinate with you guys. We're going we're going to vote to have another meeting or not in December. Yeah. The pricing is good through probably 30 days. We're talking about seven. We can figure that out. The pricing should be we are hoping good until the next meeting, but anything beyond that the price Mhm. Uh not so good. I'll arrange something this next week with [clears throat] all of you if that works with you. Yeah, I appreciate all the input like I said and being new it just you know this is No, I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you guys. I appreciate you. All right, moving on to item E. Appointment Planning Commission Board of Zoning Appeals. Consider staff recommendation to appoint now that we've moved this appoint two individuals to the first three-year term as a member of the Plain Zoning Board of Zoning Appeals effective January 1st, 2026 and concluding December 31st, 2028. And we each have a ballot. I I have something to say before you guys vote. I've talked to Henry today because my husband is one of the people that are applying for this board. And since there's no monetary benefit whatsoever, Henry and I talked and he said that it was quite all right for me to not abstain. I can vote on this. Correct. Okay. Just wanted that note.

We're voting for two for two.

Okay. Well, that's a good your secondary talk to uh vote getters for Jeff Brooks and Charles Bob Gilmore. So, you made a motion to appoint those two that

say that again, Henry. Uh, your top two vocators were Jeff Brooks and Charles Bob Gilmore. So, you'll need to make a motion to appoint those two to commission board of zoning. There's some motion to move been made to appoint those and I second the motion. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same fine. Carries. Congratulations, guys. I guess that's just Jeff. All right. Item F, which we've could we do 15 minutes on that and come back for more if we need it. Uh, it's it's 30. No. You know, I'm not sure if we should do it because is is it required that the uh city manager be in that meeting? No. No.

Okay. It's not. That's not. Okay. But I think the next item on the agenda is about the December. We got one more item. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry. And we're gonna we're going to have to come up with this item. December meeting schedule. Discussion is needed to determine the preference of the city commission members as of December as the December meeting schedule. And u what about a meeting a week from now? What day? We're talking about next week, right? What's next Tuesday? the date if it's possible to not be next Tuesday. That's that would be when Tuesday is a it creates some problems for for Darren and some others. Okay. Or what you saying? Or sometime next week. Anytime next week, but just not Tuesday.

Not Tuesday. Not Tuesday. What I mean tell what's the what's the date so we know? Monday's the 15th. Wednesday's the 17th. Thursdays Wednesday 17th or the 18th. It would be Wednesday or Thursday. We could do Wednesday. Wednesday. Wednesday. The you said the 17th is Wednesday. Yes. And this is 5:30 here. Yes. What do we call is it a special meeting? Be a special meeting. So, you'll need to vote uh to have that meeting and the only items that are listed on the agenda will be the only items that will be able to be discussed since it's a special. So, okay.

So, you've paid all the bills you need to for the year and there's no stragglers or anything like that. since we're having another meeting, it would just be the named about the data that he was talking about. So, uh, entertain a motion to have a special meeting. Did you say the 17th? Wednesday is the 17th. Wednesday the 17th, 5:30 in this room. And, uh, we will be talking about Hartland business systems agreement. And will we have a tour like DJ was requesting so we can see too what they're talking about? Would that be part of it, Jet? Would a tour be a part of that? You know,

no, I mean, I don't have or or just there would be no changes in this department. There wouldn't be anything to show. We don't have any of the equipment. We we'd do is probably a just a sit down discussion and off some powerpoints. Sit down and discuss. Okay. Kind of whiteboard it maybe. Okay. Sounds good. So is there a motion for this special meeting on the 17th at 5:30 here to talk about is that what were you deciding on a pin? Well, he said Tuesday is not a good day. Yeah. No, what's the purpose of the meeting though is what I'm saying. Well, they need but I mean when are we going to do that that day? They would we would decide that day because they said they need it. You would make a decision.

Yeah. I think the end result will just he gives us more information on what's you know what the change is going to do and how it's going to affect things outside of the proposal and then and then make a decision in the first meeting in January. No, that night. Okay. And we could make it that night because he's saying time is of the essence right now. Yes. So would we could we do that Henry? Can you make that decision on that night? Yes. Is that is that good for you? Yeah. Will that give you enough time? Well, yeah, as long as you guys are available before that. Okay. Yeah, I will I'll make that. It'll be Wednesday.

Okay. So, you need time before the Wednesday. I mean, I know. What is it you were saying? Yeah. I mean, we would be meeting before that meeting privately and to discuss and and do education on that or I don't think that's what they were or just in the meeting itself. Just in the meeting. Isn't that what the meeting's about? Yeah. To get it approved. But I didn't know if you wanted to have a one-on-one with me. How are you gonna learn about it if you and and then you can have another meeting to approve it if you don't go. He's going to have poweration. Yeah. He said he's having a PowerPoint. We have the training or the hands will be the power that you do that night. Yeah. I will do something that I'll come see you beforehand.

Yeah. And if you have any questions beforehand, I'd like to make sure that's answered for you. [clears throat] So, we need a motion to um conduct special meeting conduct a special meeting on the 17th of December 5:30 in this building. Yes. To talk about artland business system agreement. Is that is that proper wording in

Is that the proper wording? Yeah, I think that's Yeah. Let's not we just say we're going to have a special meeting on Wednesday because there may be something that comes up that we might want to put on that agenda. But we'll Yes. But I thought you said he said you have to be specific though. Just what's the time? The agenda has to be okay. The actual agenda has to be and we'll put that. So if there's something else that needs to be put on that meeting, [snorts] it'll be on Yeah. that meeting. But definitely the Heartland business system. Okay. So second DJ's first. So there's been a motion and a second for having a meeting on the 17th. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries.

All right. Is there any non-aggenda portion request? I do. All right. Uh I have a question about the camera system in this bu this room. Yeah. And I know it's nice to see all hands on deck, but are we getting to a point where this is needs updated too? I mean like the clock you're talking about the broadcast. Yeah. Yeah. We've already started the upgraded process on it. So with crocands and YouTube broadcasting to people so lips and everything matched voices and we're hoping it's working every night. So it's tonight one of those nights. Are we all late tonight? It should have been on YouTube and yeah, but Cox and Crocken are they? I haven't heard it that they haven't. I've been here. So,

I was just curious. But no, we've upgraded some of the cameras and so forth as we've went we're trying to do it just a little here, a little there. Well, like Joel's said before, people really depend on that, too. Oh, yeah. We appreciate what you appreciated. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. That's all I have.

Anything else on non-reportional request? Uh moving to executive session. An executive session is necessary to discuss personal matters of non-elective personnel pursuant to KSA 75-4 31B B1 to discuss city managers 2026 goals and letter of agreement. Motion to recess into executive session for 30 minutes to support city manager 2026 goals and letter agreement pursuant to the non-elected personnel exception under KSA 75431 B1 with the meeting to resume in the commission room in 30 minutes.

Are we are we keeping it 30 minutes or Yeah. Okay. Is there a motion to approve the recess into executive session? Move to approve. Is there a second? A second. There have been motion made and a second. All in favor to recess an executive session for 30 minutes say I. I. I. All oppose same time. [music] [music]

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down. Heat. [music] [music] party. [music] Hey [music] [music] I'm asking for an additional 30 minutes for an executive session necessary to discuss personal matters and non-elected personnel pursuant to KSA 754. 430 4319 B1 to discuss the city manager's 2026 goals and letter of agreement. Motion to recess for another 30 minutes. Move

to approve. Second. I second. So recess for 30 minutes. Still need to vote. Motion and approve. All in favor say I. All oppose. Same sign.

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Hey. Uh, you need all of us to sign something. You know that, too. What's that? Before you leave, she need you to sign. So, we're back from executive session. No decision was made. No votes were cast. Uh would entertain a motion for another 30 minutes to have an executive session necessary to discuss personal matters of non-elected personnel pursuant to KSA 754319 B1 to discuss city managers 2026 goals and a letter of grant. Need a motion. So I'll make a motion to do another 30 minute uh session to cover this discussion.

I'll second. There's been a motion and a second in favor of this. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same time. Take care, Steve. [music] [music]

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decisions were made. No votes were cast. Uh entertain a motion to adjourn. So to adjurnn second second has been motioned and second to adjurnn. All in favor say I. I. We are journ [music] [music]