City Council - Regular Meeting

Um, this is from the city of Springfield, April 27, 2026. Proclamation honoring the life, legacy, and dedicated service to the city of Springfield, Raymond Rick Raor. Whereas the city of Springfield, I'm sorry, the Springfield City Council proudly celebrates the life and legacy of Raymond Rick Raor, a beloved member of the Springfield community whose journey was defined by inspiration, dedication, and a genuine love for people. And whereas Rick's passion for automobiles began at a young age and through hard work and determination, he founded Rick's Auto Body in 1973, growing it from a small twosall shop into a thriving and trusted business that has served generations and provided meaningful careers in Springfield. And whereas his entrepreneurial spirit and creativity helped shape a recognizable local presence through memorable billboard campaigns that brought smiles to many and became a lasting part of the community's character. And whereas Rick's was deeply committed. Rick was deeply committed to excellence in customer service and quality workmanship, building lasting relationships, and earning the trust and appreciation of customers throughout the region. And whereas he believed in treating all people with respect and kindness, created a welcoming environment for customers of all backgrounds, and mentored young technicians from local trade schools, helping to develop the next generation of skilled professionals. And whereas Rick embraced life with enthusiasm through travel, friendship, and adventure, and was known for his generosity, warmth, and deeper appreciation for family, friends, and employees, leaving a lasting and

heartfelt impact on all who knew him. Now therefore, be it proclaimed that the Springfield City Council honors and celebrates Raymond Rick Rakor, recognizing his inspirational life, his heartfelt dedication, and the enduring legacy he leaves upon his family, his employees, and the entire city of Springfield. And um Marti is here, his wife, and her sister Susan, and some of the employees of Rick's Autobody. Um and I just want to present this to Marti. And you have to see the proclamation. It has two cars on it. I think it is so cute. And I don't know, do we want to let them say something?

So, we're going to take a full picture, but I just wanted to make sure other counselors if other counselors have remarks. I know councelor Delgado wanted to say some remarks. And Trac should I do that one now or after? Do it now. Hold on one one second.

Okay. And Marti, I told you I had a surprise from you from the mayor. Mayor Sarno, I know he would have loved to have been here. Unfortunately, he couldn't. So from the city of Springfield uh proclamation be it known that city of Springfield Massachusetts hereby honors the memory and legacy of Rick Ror whereas Raymond Rick Ror a native of Lello Mass showed determination and grit from an early age. He left school in the 10th grade to learn auto body trade working side by side with his father and gaining hands-on experience that would shape his life's work. Whereas Rick was a lifelong member of the Springfield community and the proud owner of Rick's Auto Body Shop, a business that served generations of residents with honesty, skill, and genuine care. In 1997, the shop found its longtime home at 375 Pasco Road in Springfield, where it continues to serve the community for decades, earning a well-deserved reputation for quality work, fairness, and trust. Rick's auto body never felt like a typical auto body shop. Rick created an environment that was fun, friendly, and inviting. His attention to detail was evident everywhere. From magn magnificent fish tanks and comfy couches to the Hollywood characters on display, including the Bruise Brothers and the crash test dummy. [laughter] Whereas through hard work, dedication, and the entrepreneurial spirit, Rick built more than its successful business. He created a place where people felt welcome and respected, where customers were treated like neighbors and friends, and where integrity mattered as much as craftsmanship. and Rick. Whereas Rick transitioned to his heavenly home in January of 2026, the Springfield City of Springfield proudly honors and remembers

Raymond Rick Raor as a strong, caring, and respected businessman, craftsman, and community member who led with style and grace. His legacy will live on through the lives he touched and the community he helped to build. May God rest his soul. And this is the surprise. Be it further known that I, Dominic J. Sarno, mayor of the city of Springfield, on behalf of the residents of our great city, extends our deepest sympathy and condolences on this tragic loss. Therefore, I, Dominic J. Sarno of the city of Springfield, do hereby proclaim Monday, April 27th, 2026 as Rick Record Day in the city of Springfield. [applause] Madam,

thank you. Thank you, councelor Govan. Um, we're going to hear words from counselors and then I'll give you um a chance to speak, Mr. Gore. How's it? Um, councelor Dado.

Uh, thank you, Madam President. Um, first of all, thank you to councelor Govon for bringing this up. uh little nostalgic for me cuz uh during my high school years I grew up in Indian Orchard and remember riding my bike all over Indian Orchard including that hill that goes right up to Rick's auto body and speeding down it. Uh, but I've also have been a customer of Rick's and and actually just recently uh maybe like a month or two ago I got into a little somebody hit me and um and but Rick's took care of me and all the staff there were super great and pleasant to to work with and um so you know we just really thank you for all the work that you guys do but obviously you know during this time you know we want to give our sympathies as well um to to your loss um and then And all I ever heard about Rick, including from the employees of, you know, how much they enjoyed working there and and they loved working there. They loved the atmosphere and the culture that he built, that you guys built. And so we're just super grateful to to have a business like yours that has taken that section of Indian Orchard and really developed it. And you have a a great property there. And everybody knows Rick's when it comes to um you know, all the billboards and everything you have. So just truly really honored that that you guys are here to be recognized on on behalf of Rick and and all the things that you've done. So thank you.

Thank you from our vice president of the city council, Jose Delgado. Thank you. Um councelor Kater Walsh. Uh thank you madam president and thank you councelor Goan. I just want to add my deepest sympathies. Uh it's a tremendous loss to you, to your family, to our community, to Indian Orchard, and I'm I'm sorry that we are honoring Rick in this bittersweet way, but I'm think it's wonderful we got to know how he started, how he worked with his family, how he made his business a family. He's well respected throughout the city, and we wish you well. And if there's anything we can do to help you, please let us know. My deepest sympathy [snorts]

Thank you, Councelor Walsh. We know that you were just a baby, um, Councelor Martin, but if you want to say something, you can go ahead.

Um, thank you, uh, Madame President. Um, I just wanted to say that, you know, hearing Rick's story for the first time, it was it was it was very touching and it was very, um, very emotional. It sounds as though he lived the embodiment of what people believe to be the American dream. And um I you know I hope you take that example, carry it close to your heart and reflect on many years of of hard work um dedicated work and um and you know reflect on the many memories that you had with your husband and and family man. So my condolences and congratulations. You're welcome.

Thank you Council Martin. And I would be remiss if I didn't offer my condolences to you and the family. And I know workers um employees become family as well. So it's like everybody's family. Um 1973 I was in the womb. So it's been over 50 years. I was born in 1974. So I'm like, "Oh, wow. I didn't realize that Ricks had been around so long." And he had the humble beginnings and the humble start and made something great in the city of Springfield. like everybody knows that location and my son he just had got sideswiped. So I'm like all right now I know we can go to Rick's and you know get your car taken care of and it'll be taken care of with such care and pride and I know the tradition that Rick started will carry on into the future. And I thank you all for your service and what you do for our community as well. And um like councelor Walsh said, if you ever need anything from us, please feel free to uh reach out and we we are here for you. And we would just like the opportunity to take a picture with you all if you don't mind. So you can come right after you say your words, you can come right through the gate, all of us together, and we'll take a group picture. I just

This is for Rick's auto body. [laughter] I just wanted to thank um the city council especially um Zeta Goan who has been a champion for us but prior to her it's been the entire city council but Katie Kater is from the old guard that was here before and she's always been a champion for us no matter when we went in front of the council whether it be for signs or whatever licenses and um you folks have always been so kind to us. We've always taken it so seriously that we wanted to be an asset to the community in a business where when someone is in an accident, they're at a at a point in their life where maybe it it wasn't their fault and and they're they don't really know what to do. So, we always go by the adage of Rick. We want to treat people the way that he'd want to be treated. And that's what we live by. It's part of our mission statement. It's part of what we live by. It's part of the work culture. and that that's not going to change. So the people that you see with me here today, they've been here between 10 and almost 35 years and we have um 45 employees as we as Zeta had explained also is is that we do and we have taken um students from Putinham and other schools and they have become part of our management team which two of them are with us here today. Um, so I'm really proud that Rick has always thought that we should try to just keep cultivating from young and bring them up. And um, even after 53 years of business, we still love what we do and we still want to treat everyone with respect and kindness and we will continue to do that within the family. We have no plans of selling our business to a conglomerate that comes in. We think it's really important that we are

members of the community, that we live in this community, we work in this community, we shop in this community, and that we want to just keep it a Springfield owned and operated business. It's really important to us. We will continue his legacy and that's what we intend to do into the future. So, I thank you again. Sincerely, thank you so much. Thank you. [applause] Thank you. [applause]

And if you will all come forward so we can take the group photo um with Rick's family. I'm going to say you're all family. Well, here I'm sure Can you see this? friends.

All right. Is there anyone here from Pope Francis today?

Anyone here from Pope Francis? Okay. So the meeting will stand adjourned until 6:30.

Good evening. Today is Monday, April 27th, 2026. We will now begin our hearings meeting of the Springfield City Council. Oop, sorry. Madame Clerk, will you please call the role? Councelor Senelo here. Present. Councelor Martin present. Present. Councelor Perez

absent. Councelor Brown. Council Perez present. Councelor Brown absent. Councelor Govan present. Present. Councelor Walsh present. Present. Councelor Hurst present. Present. Councelor Davila present. Present. Councelor Fenton present. Present. Councelor Dogado present. Present. Councelor Click Bruce present. Present. Councelor Edwards present.

Present. Councelor Whitfield. Present.

Will counselors and their guests please stand for a moment of silence. And our guests please stand for a moment of silence. Please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. You may be seated. We will now start the hearings portion of our meeting. We will first hear from the proponents. They will have 20 minutes to speak followed by questions from the city council. From there we will hear from opponents. They will also have 20 minutes to speak followed by questions from the city council. The proponents will have a fivem minute rebuttal period. Councilors will also have questions if they like followed by opponents five-minute rebuttal period. We will then decide if we want to continue or close the hearing. Once the hearing is closed, counselors can deliberate and from deliberation, we will go into a vote. Madame clerk, will you please call the first item on the agenda?

First item is a hearing for a special permit at 550 Main Street. Please state your name, address for the record. Good evening. I'm Rob Le from RC Associates, 40 School Street, Westfield, Mass.

Thank you. And you have the floor. Thank you. Uh again, we're here this evening for 550 Main Street. We're proposing a 3500 square foot medical office building to be located in the former location of the gas station. Um this is at the intersection of Lelo Street um 550 Main Street and again was a former gas station that had been demolished. We're planning on a singlestory 3500 square foot building to be located within the subject property. Uh the building is generally oriented towards the street. I do have a rendering uh below my plan. You'll see there um showing the proposed building and it is again a singlestory building 3500 ft² for the purposes of medical office. There's 19 parking spaces, two handicap accessible spaces and we have a curb cut. We've been working specifically with the planning department and uh in a very detailed fashion with Andy Kar and Steve Pickle from the engineering department DBW uh related to the access to the site. We have agreed and have review from Bowman Associates, a traffic uh engineering firm out of Westfield with offices in Westfield. Um they specifically uh helped us work through um a right in and write out only scenario. That was one of the concerns of DPW. We also reviewed the storm water with DPW. Um, we do have a letter from U. Mr. Dromy recommending approval. We also do have a letter from the uh neighborhood group. I believe councelor Govan had and Lori Mccorindale had written that. Um, and they are also in support of the project. Be happy to answer any technical questions you may have through the president. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. Can you repeat your name one more time? Rob Lec. Thank you, Rob. Thank you. Any questions from counselors? Councelor Perez. The only concern I have that there's 19 parking and only two handicap in a medical facility. That's the only thing that I'm just um because I know a lot of handicapped people spec specifically in the medical um that they are in need of more parking that two parking for 19 parking for the other ones. Thank you. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Councelor Perez, do you want to address that at all?

Uh sure. Yeah. So the typical parking requirement for that number of parking spaces would actually be zero or potentially one. So, we do have two, but we're certainly happy uh per the counselor's comment. It's a it's a uh a fair comment. Uh and we'll uh we'll communicate with the department of public health and make sure that we satisfy all all requirements. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Le. Any other questions or comments from counselors? Councelor Goban.

Thank you, Madam President. And um Mr. Lec did come to our neighborhood council meeting and we did have some discussion. Um, some of the concerns were of course with traffic. I really like the right in and right out idea which I think will mitigate some of the issues. Um, that property has been sitting there vacant for a very long time. Um, and I would love to see it developed. Um, you're going to keep the mural. There's a mural right there now, right? Did you see it? Yeah. Um,

it's not on on your building. It's on a building that's right there. um and Commonwealth Murals developed that mural and the other mural over there. So, I think it's just a great space to have some additional um office spaces and especially medical offices because we don't have a lot of medical resources in Indian Orchard. So, this is definitely something that's needed. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councelor Govan. Any other counselors? Thank you, Mr. Le. We'll now hear from any opposition. Um

um you you have to um address the chair um if you want to ask him a question, but you can um go to the podium, state your name and address for the record. My name is Patricia Boazine. I live at 983 Wester Street, Indian Orchard. Okay. My concern about that medical center is how are you going to get in and out of there the way that is set up right now? Question through the chair. You can answer that. that I can answer that through the question. Um, so the thank you. Um,

so the question was related to access and um, we were very detailed in our review with DPW. DPW had a lot of the same concerns. So we will not have a full service access to the property. We will have a right in and right only so that there won't be any left turn conflicts. So we've resolved that. So basically we'll have restricted movements so that you'll have to go around the little island and come in taking a right and then also leaving taking a right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Opposition. If you have opposition, you can um come to the podium and state your state your name and address for the record.

Hi, my name's Angela Museak. I'm a resident of Indian Orchard. Um, Madame President, and I have a question in relation to Pat Voisine's question, the entering and exiting of that new medical space. Um, would it be more conducive to have a roundabout? That's part that's my first question. And and my second part of the question is we're down to one bridge in the city because the other bridges uh been closed down for over a year now trying to get repairs done and it's the bridge by mills the the mills down off of Main Street in Indian Orchard. So we have just one way of traffic for everybody in Wilberham, everybody in Lello, and everybody in Springfield to get in and out of that area. And would a roundabout be a better way of approaching that traffic flow?

Thank you.

Uh so again, we had Bowman Associates, a traffic consulting firm, work directly with us and DPW. Uh there had been no discussion related to a roundabout. Um, Mass DOT does have that bridge on their docket uh for a future bridge project. At that time, I'm sure they'll be looking at all the traffic routing. Uh, we did have a preliminary meeting with Mass DOT to see if potentially their plans for the bridge would affect this site in any way, shape, or form. Uh, they are in, I would say, infant stages in that process. While it is on the docket, there's no specific designs even preliminarily that were able to be shared at that time. Um, so the there's been no discussion or was no discussion between the engineering department or Bowman Associates or our office related to a roundabout. So I guess the short answer is no. A roundabout was not considered and not found to be warranted uh given the um the surrounding area, the bridge and the existing access.

Thank you, Mr. Levette. Thank you. All right. Are there any other discussion from the proponents? Any other discussion from the opponents? Seeing none, we are now closing the hearing. Any deliberation from counselors? Seeing none, madame clerk, please call the role. Point of order. Oh. Oh. Madame clerk, can you please recognize counselor in seat number four? Councelor Brown. Present. Present. Councelor Brown, did you have anything else you wanted to say? No, Madame President, just want to be recognized. Thank you.

Thank you very much, counselor. Madame clerk, will you please call the role on approval? Councelor Santanella. Yes. Yes. Councelor Martin. Yes. Yes. Councelor Perez. Yes. Yes. Councelor Brown. Yes. Yes. Councelor Goan. Yes. Yes. Councelor Walsh. Yes. Yes. Councelor Hurst. Yes. Yes. Councelor Davila. Yes. Yes. Councelor Fenton. Yes. Yes. Councelor Delgado. Yes. Yes. Councelor Click Bruce.

Tommy. Yes. Sorry. No. Yes. Councelor Edwards. Yes. Yes. Councelor Woodfield. Yes. Item approved. Councelor Sentinel. Do you have the reasons? Uh, no, not with me. Can somebody else read them? They're in my drawer. I'm doing it remote. One moment, Council Martin, on the reasons. Just read them.

Okay. Reasons for granting of a special permit. The specific site is an appropriate location for such a use, structure, or condition. The use as developed will not adversely affect the neighborhood. Adequate and appropriate facilities will be provided for the proper operation of the proposed use. To incorporate the planning staff analysis into the decision at the basis of the findings. Thank you councelor. Madam clerk, will you please call the role on the reasons? On the reasons, councelor Centanello. Yes. Yes. Councelor Martin. Yes. Yes. Councelor Perez. Yes.

Yes. Councelor Brown. Councelor Brown. Away. Councelor Govan. Yes. Yes. Councelor Walsh. Yes. Yes. Councelor Hurst. Yes. Yes. Councelor Davilo. Yes. Yes. Councelor Fenton. Yes. Yes. Councelor Delgado. Yes. Yes. Councelor Click Bruce. Yes. Yes. Councelor Edwards. Yes. Yes. Councelor Woodfield. Yes. Reasons approved. Congratulations. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Thank you. You're welcome. Madame clerk, please call the next item.

Item two is 827 Boston Road and Westside Glenwood Street special permit. And yes, can you please state your name and address for the record? Good evening everyone. My name is Baselin Ismiley. Uh, I'm the owner of the Tin Shop and Auto Sales at 827 Boston Road. Okay, you have the floor. You have the floor. You have 20 minutes, sir. Um, you have the floor.

So, as I said, thank you for having me here. Applying for a special permit for a used car dealer. We also do auto window uh auto detailing and window tint for cars. We we've been in business almost for five years in Massachusetts and trying to go like push it up like a little bit more going like all the way to the top and that's pretty much it. Like any questions from counselors? Madam Madam President? Yes.

Thank you, Madam President. Um sir, the conditions that are proposed by the planning department anticipate that there would just be uh two vehicles available for sale. Are you aware of that condition and comfortable with it? Yes, sir. Okay, I have no issues. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions or comments from counselors? Is there any opposition that will You can You can have a seat. Is there any opposition that would like to speak? Seeing none, we will now close this hearing. Any deliberation from counselors? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, please call the role on approval of the special permit. Councelor Santanelo.

Yes. Yes. Councelor Martin. Yes. Yes. Councelor Perez. Yes. Yes. Councelor Brown. Yes. Yes. Councelor Govan. Yes. Yes. Councelor Walsh. Yes. Yes. Councelor Hurst. Yes. Yes, councelor Davila. Yes. Yes, councelor Fenton. Yes, councelor Delgado. Yes. Yes, councelor Click Bruce. Yes. Yes, councelor Edwards. Yes. Yes, councelor Whitfield. Yes. Item approved. Councelor Martin. On the reasons.

Reasons for granting of a special permit. One, the specific site is an appropriate location for such a use, structure, or condition. Two, the use as developed will not adversely affect the neighborhood. Three, adequate and appropriate facilities will be provided for the proper operation of the proposed use. Four, [music] to incorporate the planning staff analysis into the decision at the basis of the finding. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Will you please call the role on the reasons? Councelor Santanelo. Yes. Yes. Councelor Martin. Yes. Yes. Councelor Perez. Yes. Yes. Councelor Brown. You just take it easy. Yes. Yes. Councelor Govan.

Yes. Yes. Councelor Walsh. Yes. Yes. Councelor Hurst. Yes. Yes. Councelor Davila. Yes. Yes. Councelor Fenton. Yes. Yes. Councelor Delgado. Yes. Yes. Councelor Click Bruce. Yes. Yes. Councelor Edwards. Yes. Yes. Councelor Whitfield. Yes.

Congratulations. Before we call the next item that's on the agenda, I know that there are quite a few people here to speak on this item. We will refrain from calling any of my colleagues out out of their name. We were we're going to have a respectful conversation in the chamber. If anybody calls any of my colleagues out of their name, they will be asked to leave the chamber. We are only going to talk about the issue at hand and I just wanted to make it clear that people will be asked to leave if it becomes disrespectful. Madame clerk, will you please call the next item on the agenda?

Item three is the zone change for North Side Hampshire Street and Indian Orchard from residents B to resident C. Thank you, ma'am. Um, please state your name and address for the record. Uh Jim Ferrer, 33 minutes. Yep. Jim Ferrer, 33 Palmyra Street, uh Springfield, Mass. Uh thank you, Madame President, members of the council. Um we thought that maybe the um we're happy to represent again. We thought maybe the council had closed the hearing at the last uh at the last meeting and u but we're here to answer any questions that you may have or or go through the whole um um you know, presentation. Again,

I believe we continued it because there wasn't a lot of counselors here and if you if we would have voted and one person would have said no, you would have lost and you would not have been able to come back before us for two years. So, we continued the item on the hearing. We did not close the hearing at the time.

Thank you, Madam President. So, uh before you this evening is consideration for a zone change uh on Hampshire Street um uh from uh residence B to residence C. Um and um on the zone change, what we are uh asking for this evening is to create more housing opportunities in the Indian Orchard neighborhood. Um we are looking to uh to to ask for the zone change. Uh this is the first step uh in the process. The developer uh Bowski uh construction is a longtime developer here in the city. He's done several projects uh in the orchard uh and in 16 acres and throughout uh Springfield. Uh he is also a communicant of a sacred heart and um in the Immaculate Conception Church um in the orchard and uh he is really um interested in providing um housing opportunities here uh in Springfield. This is the first step. Um the next step would be to work with um uh the planning department who has approved uh this um this particular request. Um and what they are looking to do um is to either come back with a a site plan or a special permit request where they could also work with the neighborhood um on um special uh conditions to the special permit. Um, and we could work out any um lighting issues, any fencing issues, um, any concerns of of shrubs or bushes uh that the neighbors may may like to see. Um, and we would be uh willing to uh have a discussion at that appropriate time. Uh, this particular um uh step um is the first step in a in a quite lengthy process. There still needs to be a

discussion with the conservation commission um as well as um the planning department and uh we will be having those discussions as the progress uh continues to play out uh for this potential development. Um we have the uh approval of the planning department um and the recommendation of the planning department. Uh we would like uh consideration tonight for the zone change. Thank you. Thank you, Attorney Ferrer. Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak on behalf of the proponent? Again, is there anyone here who would like to speak on behalf of the proponent? Please state your name and address for the record. Okay.

Attorney Fancy uh with Fitzgerald Law here on behalf of the proponent uh with offices at 46 Center Square in East Long Meadow and at Monarch Place in downtown Springfield. Uh I just wanted to add on I think that summarizes the petition. This is a multi-pronged uh process that's going to be coming before us. Um I know there's going to be probably some level of opposition spoken, but we did go to countless neighborhood sites and did get a lot of feedback and I would like to offer that the plan we just showed is actually a modified and revised plan to show our commitment to add shrubbery, to add some buffering to that place. And there are quite a deal of neighbors who are actually in support of this application, are looking forward to getting to that next step. Um they are not here with us tonight, but I did want to add that uh piece on. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, attorney, is there anyone else who like to speak on behalf of the proponent? On the behalf of the proponent. Okay. See, seeing none, is there any questions for the proponent or opponent? Opposition. Okay. Um, thank you. Any questions or comments from counselors? Seeing none, is there anyone here who would like to speak in opposition? Yes, ma'am. Please state your name and address for the record. Please um turn on the mic. The opposition has 20 minutes to speak followed by five minutes by proponents.

Cannot please turn the mic on. It's a little I'm having a hard time hearing. Okay. I have we have to do it for counselors or participants that's on the zoom participation.

Yes. U my name is Denise Hudson and I live in Indian Orchard. Um next to the proposed building site at Wetlands. Um I don't know. Um they say they got all these permits already. So I don't know because I didn't see them. So I can't say if they these organizations all went to the site. Um, we had several meetings down there at the end of the street and nobody goes down in the woods. They stand at the top of the hill because it's a 45 degree angle. Okay. So, what the plan is is they came to us on September 10th of 2025. I've been on this since I've been on this thing since uh September of 2025 and it really has taken a toll on me. I've been in that Indian orchard my whole life. My parents live ne on Berkshire Avenue next to where Le where Zeta lives. We've been here all the time. My father got many awards from Monsanto for being a top-notch person. Okay. Anyway, besides that, they came to the citizen council and um the um they said the conservation would look at it. Okay. Zeta asked if there were trees. Attorney Fancy said yes. Would it? And Zeta explained that there Wait a minute. I got to get my glasses because hearing seeing I'm old. Okay, here we go. Okay, so so um they said that the it's Zeta said that there was an urban forest forest ordinance. She asked if we had to clear cut the land and attorney Fancy said yes, clearcut. Attorney Fancy is currently zoned said it's Attorney Fancy said it is currently

zoned resident A. They want it to be zoned. They're saying it's B and they want to change it to C. Okay. Well, how did it get from wetlands unbuildable to B to C? Now, I know the guy bought the land. I I understand that he owns it. But when are we going to start protecting our wetlands? When are we going to start pro protecting woods for the children that are growing up? They there's already 23 extinct species already. I mean, I I looked this stuff up. I'm not I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a doctor. I'm not anything special, but I sincerely care about Indian Orchard. I lived there all my life. Has these people here and we know there's apossums. You know what apossums? They make cancer medicine from apossums. They can kill snakes. And this is all research. I do research on all this kind of stuff because that's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in preserving land, ponds, property. Build, build, build. Go to Wilberham. Okay. I got a packet here. I gave it to Zeta to pass all the way around. Well, I think I talk loud enough. They call me firecracker at Indian Orchard. Okay. So, so, uh, I pass the paperwork all around here and I show pictures and I show things. They say, "Okay, start a a butters a petition." So, I did. We have a conservation. We have a community conservation act. We have eminent domain. We have quite a few. I I think they can hear me.

The people on Zoom cannot. The where? There's a video.

Oh, for Hey, [laughter] Indian Orchard trying. Okay. Community preservation. We have wetlands. We have all that kind of protection. Um I have a list here of the zone change. When we were going to um when we were going to have meetings down at 74 Hampshire Street, half the time the people didn't show up. Okay. And one time they changed the date of the meeting because I wanted the media there. Media couldn't be there. So all of a sudden it got changed to a different time. Okay, that's another thing. I made a list of all the vacant land in Indian Orchard. I've have all list a beautiful list in here. If you can see land for sale in Wberham where the builder lives and you see what the prices are. He stole that property. He stole that property from Indian Orchard. Then I have also here some pictures. I didn't take these pictures, but a person arrived at my house and told me that two sections of that land is wet is a wildlife management. Okay, that's another question. Okay, so I'm just going kind of page by page. If you got the thing, you'll see what I'm talking about. Okay, then uh we they also said, well, we would do a traffic study. Okay. First, there was going to be five duplexes down there, which was 20 more cars in our neighborhood. We have three or four houses on our street. We're dead end where our property abuts the pond. We need to save that pond, too. Anyway, okay. So, anyway, so they said they purchased it as zone 8, unbuildable. I know the people that lived there, the Kenyons, they lived in the neighborhood. They had they owned the house that's that's right in back of the property.

They're both dead. Then their kids had it and then the then um um Staples had that house. Then I don't know what happened after that when LLC got a hold of it. Okay. So then I have a paper in here too saying that it was unbuildable. Now to get to unbuildable, this is my question. How can you assume that they put that land in unbuildable just so they wouldn't have to pay the taxes? I'm sorry, ma'am. That's an That's an inspire. So that the other counselors that are on the Zoom can also hear. Oh, they can't hear me. Not if you're not speaking on the mic. Sorry. I get too excited. I'm sorry. Hey, I'm passionate about where I live. I've been there all my life.

Ain't the best, but it's as good as the rest. And it's working its way up. Okay. Then I went down. They said, "Oh, this is that's not conservation land." Okay. I went down there on a freaking weekly basis just to make sure they didn't take that conservation sign down. Okay. Okay. Another thing about conservation cattails in this country in 1849, they passed a law saying that we have to get rid of all the swamps. Do you know why? Because the cacttails were our food from the root to the chute to every part of it is edible or made into something. The Indians used those cattails to put inside of their moccasins to keep their feet warm. We eradicated all that and that was from swamp lands. I can't I mean I can go on and on here for hours about this stuff because I I research it.

You have 20 minutes total.

Okay. Then there's a map there of the pond. Um, a full map in there which I think I've already presented here before. Then I got the two-page of butter petition of our neighbors that live there. Don't want more traffic. We got enough now. So that's where we're we're standing at that and see what happens here. You know, I tried everything. I tried tree service. I tried the uh conservation. I've tried the wetlands. I've tried everything and it's he owns the land. So, we have to decide whether we want to eliminate another uh forested area in Indian Orchard, which we have not much because they're house on top of house. Um if we're going to let him build down there, he could buy property in his own town, but it's too expensive. No, because he's because he got that land so cheap for $30,000 for an acre of land. You know, that's cheap. Dirt cheap. So that's what I'm saying. And people will build a house today. They'll build them in in even in California on the side of the mountain. And they know they're going to have be their house is going to get all wet and it's going to be down in the river, you know, but they do it anyway. You can't build houses where the water level is too high. That's all I can tell you. They didn't do a perk test. I'm Nobody walked that property. The city council hasn't been there either.

Well, let me just explain where we are right now. Okay.

So, right now, this is just for the zone change. The petitioners would if if approved, the petitioners would have to come back for a special permit. If not approved, they still have the opportunity to build something on residence B, but regardless, they will have to come back to the city council for a special permit. So, right now, it's just a zone change. They're going to have to come back again and address a lot of the concerns that you have. So maybe it's an opportunity for you all to get together and really discuss um a solution. I think they are willing and I don't know if you all are but um this is strictly just for the zone change not they're not able to build if this is approved today

wetlands doesn't have to go and look at that property or any e ecological society the conservation commission committee they're going to have to go in front of all of those um different different you're already changing the you're already changing the zone change without them looking at it

but that doesn't mean that they can just build. They still have to go through the special permit process. That doesn't mean if even if we've approved the zone change tonight, if their special permit comes back with any concerns of city councilors, we do not have to approve that. But this is just for the zone change. So, they're going to have to come back again. They're going to have to do all the things that you're talking about, talk to the conservation commission and all all of those things and then come back to the city council for a special permit. So, this isn't the end of the road right here. Thank you for doing all the research that you do. I didn't get the packet, but hopefully there's one for me. Um, but this is just a zone change. It is not a special permit. So, I just wanted to make it that clear. Even if the zone change is approved or denied, they still have the opportunity to build in that area. But before they can build anything, they have to go through um specific steps and then come back and let the city council know the steps that they took. and if we don't agree with it, we don't have to um approve the special permit at that time. So hopefully there's an opportunity where you all can get together and talk um this through and see if a solution can be made equitably um that you think is fair for you and your neighbors and um come up with some type of solution.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Is there anyone else who wants to speak in opposition? Thank you. You have the floor. You're welcome. My name is Marie Lilja. I live at 90 Hampshire Street. Um I have a question. They said that the planning board approved the the request. Uh when we went to the planning board, they voted it down. Um I have Phil Dome from the um planning department and he also is at the planning board meeting. So Phil, can you It was my understanding they voted it down. So that they didn't vote it down. There was no vote. There was a voted two voted in favor, two voted against, and one member abstained. So that's not approved though, right? Correct.

Thank you. Any other? Sure. Please state your name and address. Hi everybody. Thank you for listening and the patience. It's a very passionate topic that we're speaking of in the city of Springfield when the there's been so much building going on. And um I'm just wondering if you could reiterate the different zoning the zone from uh going from zone C to um from residence B to residenc. I'm going to let Phil drone me from the plan department. He's the expert.

Thank you. just to refresh our our memories.

Uh well, residence B is simply for single and two family housing. Residents, excuse me, residence B is single and two family housing. Resident C is single, two and multif family housing. So in this particular case, they theoretically could come in and do a subdivision and create two or three lots and build each [snorts] one a two family. In this particular case, they were looking to put multiple buildings on one property. That triggers the reason that triggers the deed for a zone change. You can't put two houses on one property in residence B. You can in residency because it's considered a multif family development if you put more than one building on it. But again, even if the zone [clears throat] even if the zone change is denied tonight, they could theoretically extend um Hampshire Street and create a subdivision. I I think I've seen a preliminary plan where they're they could theoretically get four lots out of there. Each one of those lots could could contain a two family dwelling, but if they're looking for multiple buildings on one parcel, they need a zone change to residenc, which would then trigger a special permit from the city council.

So, at this time, they're switching from residence B to C. That's the request. So C would be a multifamily uh complex of houses. Well, their plan is four two family houses on one lot. So that would be considered a multif family development because it's multiple buildings on one lot. So several buildings on one lot that are two family. Correct.

Okay. Can I ask you before you leave the microphone, sir? I was just wondering what year were all these zoning laws affected? What year were they originated in? Well, I mean, they go back to the 30s, but the the kind of the the most recent Well, they basically go back to 1972 where the res where the the current zoning kind of is in place. The zoning orange was then updated in 2013, but the underlying residence B and resident C zoning were not changed in that latest update. So there's there's there's there's versions of the zoning orics in the ' 50s and the 60s7s.

So we got 5060s7s. So that's the last time that these were 2013 was the last time it was updated. And that was the last time which zone was updated. The zoning ordinance? Zoning C, zoning B, the lot side, what? I'm just trying to understand it myself. Like the requirements for residents B and resident C are have been the same since 1972. Okay. And those are lot sizes for how how big does the lot have to be? I I'd have to look at the zoning. And how much frontage does the lot on those zones have to be? You need 50 ft of frontage. And then whatever whatever the whatever building you're building is going to determine the size of the lot you need.

And does that constitute any of those zonings classifications constitute anything on conservation land or wetlands?

This is not on conservation land. This property I want to stress this. This property is not conservation land. It is bordering a wetland and there are wetland buffers that extend under this property. But this property is not conservation land and it is not a wildlife management land. It is privately owned and as such can be privately developed. Conservation commission will absolutely have to review the plans because the buffer extend into the property. So again I think last time I said it was 200 feet. The buffer is actually 100 ft. Any if you're building within 100 ft you need conservation approval. You can't build within 50 feet of the wetland. So if they're outside of the 100 feet buffer, then they don't need anything from the conservation commission, but I believe they probably will be within that 100 foot buffer. So they will ultimately need approval from the conservation commission, but the land itself is not conservation land. It's privately owned.

We're going to let her finish her comments or thoughts before we turn. One moment. Hold that thought. Hold that thought. Are you are you finished with your comments or thoughts?

Uh uh no. I just wanted to know what size like uh like area square footage size of all of those and in the and I'm just interested in really uh it's just that the city of Springfield is getting so built up and we're getting so overpopulated. They're taking down trees in certain areas. the forestry department and and uh all of these different departments will have to address those at those time. But this is all got to do with zoning. What I'm asking, sir, like square footage of these particular zones cuz right now as it is to build a residence, you only need 5,000 square foot of land

for pre-existing lot for a preexisting lot. For instance, res If you want to build a two family now, you need 80 ft of 8,000. Sorry. In residence B, if you wanted to build a new two family house and create a new lot, you need 80 ft of frontage and 8,000 square ft. So that's even smaller. No, it's not 8,000 square ft and 80 ft versus 5,000 ft. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yep. Sorry. But um so if you but if you happen to have a 50 by 100 lot, it's considered to be a pre-existing lot. You can build again depending on what the zone is,

but some of the the building property that they want to build on next to Denise's house is a lot larger than 8,000 square feet. Yeah. But the drop the drop on it that doesn't mean it's not buildable. How many square feet? The the lot's 52,000 square feet. So just because it has a a a you know a slope on it does not mean it's not buildable. There may be stuff they need to do in order to build a house. They they were talking about putting gravel and everything in a retaining wall cuz the wetlands

and who whoever builds there, sir, it's going to have problems in their basement. I I can't speak to that. Oh, thank you Phil. Do I have how many minutes do I have left? There is 40 seconds left. Oh, okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, we're going to stop right at the 20 minute mark. Go. Yes, you got 30 seconds.

Okay. Um they I've even read up to there and you can even go back 150 ft. I mean I've been researching this since September and I've been coming to different meetings and whatnot. So, I mean, even even 50 feet, 75, they can go all the way up to 150 ft from what I've read away from the water. You don't understand. It's a 45 degree angle. And he's going to fill it all in. Got perfect top soil there. You got big giant trees. You're going to cut it all down.

Thank you. Um, we All right, we have rebuttal time. Five minutes from the proponents. Let me just start this clock. Make sure we staying on it. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Uh Jim Ferrer, 33 Palmyra Street, Springfield, Mass. Madame President, counselors, the heart of the matter here is is a zone change. A lot of these concerns that were brought up by some of the neighbors or one of the neighbors will be addressed during the special permit site plan review process. The heart of the matter here is that the proposed development pattern um is similar to the surrounding areas in the neighborhood. This is not spot zoning. There are like properties that are up and down Hampshire Street and in this in this part of the neighborhood. So, we kindly ask that the council approve the zone change tonight so that we can move forward and continue to have discussions with the neighborhood and with the council uh on on the special permit uh requirements and modifications that the board and and the planning department would like to see. And as I stated before, the planning department is recommending this um zone change. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you. Uh, attorney Ferrer. I just wanted to see if counselors had any questions or comments. Councelor Dav followed by councelor Delgado, followed by councel Govan.

Thank you, Madame President. I do have some clarifying questions. Um, for who? Counselor. Uh, let me start with Phil. Phil. Okay. [clears throat]

How you doing, Phil? Phil, I just want to make sure. So you're saying that this lot is where is buildables as it is? It's not conservation property land. It's buildable. It is definitely not conservation commission land. Okay. So they can build on the rest be it right now. Right now they could they could go out and put a two family house there tomorrow. If they wanted more than one two family house, that's a different process. But if they wanted to just build one two family house, they would have to extend. That that was actually my next question. So, so with with a multif family, they could build up three family homes, three three stories.

Well, I'd have to I mean, yeah, technically, sure. But multif family doesn't mean stories. It just means number of housing units you're putting on there. Residenc, right? If you wanted to put three, you need a zone change to residency. Okay. So, that's why we're here. Well, they're they're proposing four two families, so technically that's multif family. I'm going to be right back to you if I may. Uh the quick question to the proponents, Mr. Fer, if I may, through the chair,

thank you. I just want to confirm that, M. Good to see you, Mr. Ferrer. I want to confirm that. What's the intent to do a two family stories or three family stories? Well, I I mean, you know, our intent is is a site plan uh would show a layout of four two families. Um or we could do townhouse style with eight units as well. So, we we we put uh a couple different options, but again, a lot of that discussion will happen if the zone change is approved tonight and we will move forward with a site plan and a special permit.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Farah. Um um Phil, so thank you for that answer. Now the you say that this needs to go to the conservation committee as well for approval down the road. And I always forget what's the footage. Is it the conservation footage? Is it 50 feet or 100 feet? There's a 100 foot buffer. So anything within 100 ft. You got one moment. You have to wait till the opposition has five minutes, but you will get another opportunity to speak. Anything within a hundred anything within a 100 feet of a wetland is it would requires conservation approval and you can't build within 50 feet. So

I understand and uh do you know did they might have been said already but I'm not I can't recall. They went in front of the neighborhood council. They went for what? Neighborville council. Yes. And they approved it I believe so. Yes. Okay. And so, no, Phil, my problem is that I read things. Um, if I'm not mistaken, you told us a little while ago that the planning board, it was a tie vote. Correct. Correct. There was there was a no recommendation.

Okay. And so, I need to ask you this because something about the devil's being on the details here. So, why does it say and you you're going probably going to say it's a typo. Why does it say approve? Well, my analysis is the staff recommendation. In addition to my analysis, I send the planning board report which outlines the actual vote of the meeting, which is I think the next document down. So, so the I provide a staff analysis just like I do to the city council of whether to approve a special permit or approve a zone change. It's up to the planning board themselves to either vote in favor of that or not. As with the city council, I just I just provide a we we do an analysis of the zone change and I provide a recommendation.

This is your analysis. You you are recommending to them. Correct. Approve [clears throat] or not. You say approved. They say it's a it's a fail basically or tie vote. Correct. It basically is a we I think we had the discussion last time about whether they had to wait two years. So with a positive recommendation from the board, they don't have to wait two years to come back. But this vote that they took was not a positive recommendation. So they would have to wait two years. So this was basically there was a no recommendation by the planning board. Right. Well, we only had nine members at the time. That's why we decided to continue to today. I think there there was only two two there was only five of the board meeting at the time, but

Okay. Um would you be able to give me a quick taste as to what the concern was from the planning board as to why why the descending vote? Just a quick taste. Um, again, I think I I think the the neighborhood's concerns were raised. Um, I don't know why one of the board members abstained. Um, but there was a couple guys there was a couple of the board members who were in favor of the the development. There were a couple of the of the board members who had concerns about the issues being raised. All right. Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Madame President. Thank you, councelor. Councelor Delgado.

Uh, thank you. Um I had some of the similar questions that councelor Davallet had, but in looking in this and I know that this is just a zone change. Um I guess a question for the proponents is this layout that you have between the four two family units and the eight town houses. Is this essentially the layout that you're going for? Attorney Ferrer or someone from the team?

Yep. I'm I'm sorry. Councelor Delgato, what's your question? I'm not a a developer or anything like that. I'm just kind of curious on the layout, the way you have it here on the plans. It it seems like all of the units are kind of squashed into a certain section versus spread out with the street. So, I was just curious. So, so there's a couple different proposals out there and and we can certainly go into them, but we feel as though that the appropriate time would be during the special permitting process and we would like to have a conversation with the neighborhood to include them in the process as to what they would like to see. And again, you know, there is um you know, one neighbor here that u is just adamantly opposed to it. There's multiple neighbors that that you know that came out to the meeting that we had that were in favor of this and we would like to have a continued discussion out in the neighborhood um with with uh with the neighborhood itself.

Yeah. No, understandable. I'm not necessarily against the proposal. Um, I was just more curious about, you know, why why the layout that you're potentially looking at, but also why why the choice of res uh resc. Sure. Yeah.

And if I can touch on your point earlier. Um, so there's numerous meetings we had with uh the neighbors and the neighborhood council on this. Uh, there were ultimately two proposals. Those are just two design options that could happen. Um, ultimately there is no real firm decision of which one is going to go forward, but I believe a majority of the neighbors who were in favor of it, they favored the separate duplexes as opposed to the town houses. They thought it more so conformed with the neighborhood. There's a lot of duplexes in that area already. Um, so we're leaning towards that one. We haven't made a final decision, but obviously if we make it past this point, um, as Jim had said, then we will get to that point of what works best in that neighborhood. And my understanding as of right now is the the duplex style. Um, going off the resident C to B. Uh, well, Phil touched on this briefly.

B to C.

Sorry, B to C. Um, my apologies. Phil touched on this briefly. It's not that we couldn't have four of these duplexes on this lot. Now, it's that residence B does not allow them to be on one lot. So, theoretically, we could subdivide the lot into four separate parcels because it's large enough uh and still do the same development. It would just be four separate parcels rather than one parcel with four of these duplexes on it. So it' be the same plan. There's different requirements for a subdivision. There's less community outreach and say, which is not something we wanted. It's a little bit more streamlined for us, but it gives the neighbors a little bit more flexibility if we go to C rather than trying to, you know, force it with a subdivision. Um, which I think most developers would do. And that's not what our my client's trying to do. He's trying to make it more community. So that's the the rationale is going this route would allow for more community engagement as well as streamline the process for us. Um but ultimately it's just a matter of the way you cut the cookie.

All right. Yeah. No, that that makes sense to me. Um I mean I still think that like you could still accomplish your goal in residence B style. Um but again that's not up to me. That's that's you know you guys are the developers and experts. I was just more curious of why that and the way the layout is on here. Um, I was just really curious because it does, you know, really spread out from I don't know the directionals, but it it does spread out more towards like the pond and and the park area versus kind of a an Lshape. I would have imagined with the street you would have kind of done an L straight Lshape kind of design, but again, I'm not the expert. So, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Um Um, Councelor Govan.

Thank you, Madame President. Um I do just want to make one correction on what was said earlier about um an urban woodlands ordinance that councilor David and myself are continuing to work on. When I asked attorney Fancy about the the trees there, I did tell her that I personally was working on an urban woodlands ordinance and we don't want to cut a whole bunch of trees down. And I think um we had a conversation about that. So the one thing and I think it talked about we talked about it here a little bit right now currently it's residence B and they can technically without asking this the neighborhood council like attorney fancy just said they could build the duplexes that they want to build without our input. And my fear is that I want us to have community input because as a, you know, city councelor, the neighborhood president, um, I want our residents to be able to comment and to have that input. Um, changing it to zone C would allow for that. And I have been working diligently to try to find an alternative to this because I'm hearing the neighborhood. I'm hearing the concerns. and I have reached out to the conservation commission and asked them if they would like to purchase the land because the developer is willing um to do that. I know that he has spent a lot of money on it even though he did he got it for a very low price. Um the conservation commission is not interested because it's not conservation land. Um I actually reached out to the parks department to see if they might be interested in purchasing it and you know we're going back and forth a little bit on that. So, you know, whatever we do here tonight, I'm hoping um you know, that if it gets voted down that we can have continue to have conversations with the um the developer about the land and if it gets voted up, then I want us to continue to have conversations with the

developer to see what the neighborhoods really want there. So, you know, um being on and this is a very difficult place to be because I love my neighborhood. I love the trees. Everybody knows that I always talk about the trees and we need more housing. So, there's a lot of issues going on here right now. Um, so thank you, Madam President, for the time. Thank you, counselor. Any other comments from counselors. All right, we do have an additional five minutes for the opponents to speak. So, you have the floor. Oh, one moment. Councelor, I I don't Yes, I don't have a uh hand raise on my thing.

I didn't see your hand because I was looking at the screen, but go ahead, councelor Brown. You have No, I [clears throat] don't have a I don't have a hand raising thing [laughter] on my phone. Sorry. That's all right. You have the floor.

Um the um I think the main thing is where a lot of people have to understand is that this is pretty much still just the first step. Um I'm definitely uh as far as um the project I you know we need housing. I'm supportive of it. Um there this is still just a premature step. Uh they they're willing to go to the neighborhood council again when it comes into the design. Um so that's what I like to hear. I think a lot of people have to realize that this is still just the first step. um and the actual petitioners them being willing to go to the community and talk to the community after this actual step to um construct the design of it is important to me. So I will support it. Um I think a lot of times people got to understand this is just a zone change. It's not um they're going to still come back up in front of us. So, um, I'm excited about the project. Um, I think a lot of the oppositions, what they should do is now it, you know, if it passes, you have the opportunity to create it the way you want. Um, so I am going to be supporting it. I I definitely want the community to work together after this stage if it passes to be able to create it and design it the way that they want. Thank you, Madame President. Thank you, councelor Brown. Any other comments from counselors? Madam, you have the floor. The oppon the opposition has five minutes.

Okay. Um, again, it's the same same thing. We got houses on top of houses. You You look out the door and you can see in your neighbor's windows. That's how we're congested in Indian Orchard already. And we got plenty of homeless. Yes, I know that, too. But what are you going to do? Are we gonna ever have fresh air anymore? Wait until summer comes and when you walk outside. Don't go under a tree. Walk in the direct sun. See how hot you are. Then go sit under the tree and see what happens. And you have oxygen. When it's hot and steamy, you can't even breathe. When you got nice trees giving you off oxygen and fresh air, we're going to and we're going to eliminate all the animals down there. And I feed the animals so I know that they're animals there. I catch them in my trap just to find out what I got. So I know what to feed them. Okay. It's just nature. We need the open spaces. What would be the dollar amount that that developer would take for that property? Let's ask that question.

You can you can definitely have that conversation with the developer, but you're going to still you still can't I just still can't get from A to B to C if it's unbuildable. It's been unbuildable for at least 100 years. Unbuildable. Dead end street pond.

I before a vote would be passed tonight would be nice if some of the um people on the council could take a drive by the area. I don't know if that's possible, if tonight's the deadline, but anyways, it's next to Kennedy Junior High School. You got a school there. You have old buildings. You have the old Myrtle Street building there that's vacant right now. Um I mean, if they're not going to if they're going to put something there or why why don't they put a park instead of more more um livable spaces? I know the need for residences. Uh, and there's tons of unused buildings that are already standing right down on Main Street in Indian Orchard. And as far as some of the buildings that they talked about, there's there's uh one on Hampshire Street that is way down away from the building area that's a it's an elderly unit. and as well as Myrtle Street, the old Myrtle Street school is um apartment blocks, but Oh, okay. Thank you.

Um, as far as they were saying that uh the neighbors support it, uh we had a petition of over 30 uh neighbors that said they did not want this. So, I disagree with they got a little paperwork. It's in the paperwork, the petition. So, it's there are a lot of neighbors that are totally opposed to this. Thank you. Um, we have a question or comments from councelor Perez. So, for point of clarification, we just going to nando zoning change. Yes. Would this initiate a conversation with the community and the developers? Correct. Yes.

Thank you so much for the clarification. Um, ma'am, can you please get Yes. Can you

All right, Council Perez, is that your final comment? Thank you. Thank you, Council Perez. Any other questions or comments from counselors on opposition? Oh, no. Not for opposition. No. Oh, we'll deliberate right after. Any other Yes, you Yeah, you have 50 seconds left

from opposition. Listen, all I want to say is I wouldn't build a house down there. It's wetlands. Eventually, the houses are going to have problems. You wouldn't I said it before here. You wouldn't put your mother in one of those houses cuz eventually the water is going to come into the cellars. It is all you have to do. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to to see. Go walk down there. It's swamp land down there. How many piles of gravel is he going to put there? Give me a break. You know, I'm not fresh. My daughter just said I'm fresh. I I it it's a fact. Is that me? Is that it? That is it. I don't like these papers. Okay. Sorry.

All right. Any other questions or comments for the opposition at this time from counselors? Seeing none, that will close the hearing. Any deliberation from counselors? Any deliberation from counselors? Seeing none, madame. Oh, councelor Dava.

Uh, thank you, Madame President. Uh, I more of a comment if I may may if I may may uh to the um lovely young ladies here who have been advocating. Uh [clears throat] that first I will have to say that I I admire your advocacy. I admire your advocacy. How how hard you fighting? I want to make that public. I'm complimenting you. I'm complimenting you. Dava, this is deliberation for us. No, I know. I know. I know. I know.

Madame President, I have to say that I am I am um Yeah. So, you're welcome. Uh, I just want to make a general comment that just to remind people that there will be another bite of the apple of this. I don't know how this is going to go, but in case it doesn't go the way in which some people want, that there will be another bite of the apple of this. Um, and I just have to say that I admire the advocacy. Thank you.

Thank you, counselor. Councelor Delgado. I guess I just wanted more clarification from Phil um and or Zida councelor Govan, excuse me, on the changing from B to C. I other than giving the developer more flexibility, I'm trying to understand how does that give more community input? I heard that.

I'm just going to try to answer that. From my understanding, if they keep it B, they can create subdivisions on the land and they don't have to come back to city council for a special permit. If they change the C, they do have to um come back for a special permit. Usually, when they come to us for a special permit, we ask for what kind of support they got from the neighborhood council and the neighborhood. So, if they keep it B, they can create subdivisions, don't have to come back for a special permit. Is that accurate? um Phil. So that's how more community conversation can happen. If they do change it to see um they have to come back for that special permit from us and usually we require I know that all the war counselors in here says have you spoken to the neighborhood? Have you spoken to the neighborhood counselors? And that's where that conversation could take place. I just

sure I I also just wanted to throw in unlike special permit zone changes as far as the site plan goes can't be conditioned. So the site plans tend to be less formal or less finalized if and when they come back if this does happen to pass and they come back for the special permit. It will require full detailed finalized site plans of what they're actually proposing, including approvals from the required on a on a res C

on a res B where they would have to divide up. They would they would unless they were just going to build one house on that lot. If they were looking to build multiple houses on individual parcels, they would file for a subdivision, which goes before the planning board, does not come to the city council. and the planning board. If the subdivision meets the underlying regulations, which most do, the planning board does not have the authority to deny a subdivision. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Counselor Fenton. Phil, if I could just a quick follow up on a on that point. Stay with us, Phil.

Thank you, Phil. [laughter] What is it if it if it gets approved to res C, what what is it that triggers the special permit use? multiple housing on one lot. Okay. But if they did and if they did if they did the townhouse then that that would pro that would trigger if they do the townhouse development that would depending on the number of units. If they're doing more than nine units, it's a special permit from the city council. If they're under 10 units, then it's a site plan review through the planning board. It's still a site plan review, but there's less flexibility about denial. Right. But if they did more than one structure that had housing in it in res CR special permit from the city council. Thank you.

I'm sorry ma'am. The hearing is closed. We cannot take any more public testimony at this time because we closed the hearing. So it's just deliberation between the council right now. We cannot take any more public testimony because the hearing is closed. Councelor Finton are did that conclude your remarks? Okay. Thank you. Any other remarks from counselors? Seeing none, madame clerk, will you please call the role on the zone change? On approval of the zone change, councelor Santanelo. Yes. Yes. Councelor Martin. Yes. Yes. Councelor Perez. Yes. Yes. Councelor Brown.

Yes. Yes. Councelor Govan. Recuse. Recuse. Councelor Walsh. Yes. Yes. Councelor Hurst. No. No. Councelor Davila. Yes. Yes. Councelor Fenton. Yes. Yes. Councelor Delgado. No. No. Councelor Click Bruce. Yes. Yes. Councelor Edwards. Yes. Yes. Councelor Whitfield. No. No. Item pass.

Madame Clerk, are there any more items before the council? Thank you. We will now conclude this meeting and we will meet again on May 4th for the regular city council meeting. Meeting adjourned.