City Council - Regular Meeting

I think it was a little bit of both. I think there was.

We'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. Tax Increment Financing Commission, City of Washington, Missouri, Wednesday, May 27, 2026, 4 p.m. Daniel Tobin, Sandy Lucy. Here. Here. Julie's canal here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

with liberty and justice for all.

Before we get started this afternoon, why don't we go ahead and at least go around this table and introduce ourselves. Mike, would you like to start?

My name is Mike Genovese. I'm retired from Emerson Electric in the tax department, and I'm a representative of Franklin County.

I'm Becky Pate.

I'm with Downtown Washington, Inc. Nancy Walkenhorst, and I'm with Coldwell Banker Real Estate.

I'm Julie Scannell with GH Tool and Mold.

Bob Dobbs, Bank of Franklin County, City of Washington.

Sandy Lucy, Gary Lucy Gallery.

John Bauer, President of East Central College and representing the other taxing entities aside from the school district. John McCullough, School District of Washington.

Ben Hotz, local attorney here in town.

Aaron Griesheimer, Economic Development Director for the City of Washington.

Sheri Clay Camp, Assistant City Administrator and City Clerk.

Is there anybody in the audience that would like to introduce themselves? Mark, go ahead.

Okay, I'm Mark Grimm with Gilmore and Bell. We're acting as special counsel to the city on the project. This is my associate, Nick Weaver. So any questions y'all have, holler at any time.

If not. Turn it over to you.

All right. Well, good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for your time. So we'll jump right into it. So the reason why we're here is because in 2024, the city adopted its comprehensive plan, which laid out a 25 year vision for the city's future. And one of the goals that is outlined in the comprehensive plan as you see on the screen is goal 3.2 which states for the redevelopment of 5th Street and to turn it into a pedestrian friendly multi-use corridor that serves as a new entrance into our downtown area. One of the ways that we hope to do this and revitalize part of the Fifth Street corridor is through tax increment financing incentives and establish a TIF district. We currently in the city of Washington have three TIF districts. We have the Rhine River TIF district which expires in 2033. We have our Front Street TIF district which expires in 2040. And we have our downtown TIF district, which expires in 2030. Now, as I stated, we hope to utilize tax increment financing for the revitalization of part of our fifth street corridor. But the truth is, the city of Washington, we didn't know if that area even qualified for tax increment financing. AND SO THE CITY OF WASHINGTON IN 2024 HIRED PGAV PLANNERS TO CONDUCT A STUDY OF THE AREA AS YOU SEE RIGHT HERE. SO THE FIFTH STREET REDEVELOPMENT AREA IS WHICH IS HIGHLIGHTED TO THE WEST SIDE OF FIFTH STREET IT GOES A COUPLE BLOCKS OVER FROM STAFFORD STREET AND ON THE EAST SIDE RUNS ALL THE WAY ON THE MAP IT SHOWS FRANKLIN STREET WHICH IS HIGHWAY 47. So PGAV planners took a look at this area and we asked them to particularly take a look at the shaded area here in red, which is currently the old Cedar Crest Manor nursing home property. What they determined in their study is that not only does the old Cedar Crest Manor property qualify as blighted and therefore qualifies for tax increment financing, that the whole Fifth Street corridor here that you see shaded is considered at risk of being blight and is determined to be a conservation area, which also qualifies for tax increment financing as well. So knowing this information, just recently, the city of Washington accepted proposals from development companies for the redevelopment of the area. And we laid out four main goals, as you see here on your screen. One of them was the elimination of blighted conditions. Two was to generate long-term tax revenue with this development. three was to create new employment opportunities and four was to add dining shopping and lodging opportunities with this project as you can see the deadline was actually yesterday so i'm happy to announce that we received one proposal from dss building group which was for a mixed-use hospitality development which essentially would be a marriott branded hotel which would be four stories tall It would house up to 120 rooms. It would house meetings and event space between 3,000 and 6,000 square feet. Restaurant and retail space between 3,000 and 8,000 square feet with parking on site of 163 parking spaces. The developers shared as a proposed site plan with the city you can see on the top of the screen that is where 5th Street is so the development would be a but to 5th Street so and the Northwest core you would have the hotel development with 3 retail spaces on the eastern side. The parking spaces would be accessible from either Elm Street or Cedar Street and you can see the parking spaces would be accessible from the alleyway from Elm Street and Cedar Street. So we have the developer here if there's any specific questions or bow if you want to provide any additional details to the proposal.

Yeah, thank you. And again, my name is Bo Reinberg. And while I don't currently live in Washington, I have a lot of historical roots in this town and in this county and in this room sometimes. So, you know, when we first. Heard about an opportunity on 5th Street to acquire this property You know it really it started three years ago, and the idea was This use that served the community so well Was was kind of obsolete right Cedar Crest had moved on they weren't going to come back as what was kind of originally thought of You've got this property that really is a perfect rectangle, which is great for development, but you have this old, obsolete building on it that has some environmental challenges with asbestos. We couldn't bring that back to a use that made economic sense. As we looked at the comprehensive plan and really the strategic goals of the city for the Fifth Street corridor, for us, it really checked a lot of those boxes that were first up there for the four main goals. I mean, this has potential to be certainly a big project, but it has a chance to be kind of a catalytic-type project uh... but for some of the challenges that the site presents uh... not only with the topography in the location but the current building itself i really did it kind of makes me think back to if you look at the very first half the downtown tiff You had this old historic Bank of Washington, and quite frankly, it would have been probably less expensive and probably economically a better decision to move out to the highway in a greenfield site where it's easier to build. There's kind of less barriers. But through the use of a TIF, they were able to expand their location here, employs 150 people, and really help kind of spur the continued development of downtown that's been so successful. We really see this as a very, very similar project. This project could certainly occur out on the highway somewhere where all the other commercial growth, for the most part, has occurred. And 15 years ago, before the apps for hotels, it probably would have had to go out there because you've got to have that drive-by traffic to generate the room stays that you need, especially in that Sunday through Thursday traffic. With the increased popularity of the, whether it's a Hilton app or a Marriott app, finding your hotel is much easier now. And so there's much less dependence on being right on a highway or on an exit or on an off ramp. And so really when we toured Marriott through the community, they immediately took to all this positive momentum downtown and said, we want to be as close to this as we possibly can be. uh... so for us that really helps say okay we've we've got this opportunity here uh... but you know there's there's obviously this significant challenge with the site and really with the economics of making something work seven days a week versus just three days a week we think that with the growth of history downtown the industrial park mercy, all of the residential growth, not only within Washington, but the greater Franklin County area and across the river, that a project like this can really be an asset for everybody in the community. Recruiting new talent, recruiting new people to come in and stay. You've got a wonderful option that's close to our greatest asset, which is the river in downtown. So for us, it really made a lot of sense, and You know, I think the other thing, too, to think about is we've really maintained a community focus from the time we bought the property all the way up and through. This property's been used by the fire department, Franklin County SWAT, police department, St. Francis Borgia Numerous deer groups have taken like old freezer parts to use at their deer camp, you know, so I say that because you know, that's the spirit of Doing a project that the community is invested in and we want to maintain that throughout the entire You know throughout the entire process so be happy to answer any questions that I can

how many beds right you may have said 120 ish i mean that you know some of it is that's fine yeah now is that gonna will the tourism tax apply to that the tax doesn't exclude tourism taxes does it the tiff would not exclude a tourism tax it does not exclude the tourism the five dollar bed five percent that would still be generating revenue for the city yes I'm trying to wrap my head around what a four-story building would look like right there on Fifth Street. I mean, because that's kind of one of the, if there's any downside to the Bank of Washington, it's like all of a sudden, you know, there's no sunlight and there's nothing there.

I don't want to stand here and say that it's not going to be a big building.

Will it be up on top of that?

It will. I mean, again, some of that is still within kind of the engineering and design. But the whole idea is that you've got this elevated, it's already elevated, and you're up above kind of looking into downtown to the river. But again, it is absolutely a large-scale project.

Would our people have any input into what it would look like? Will it be brick? Will it be, what do we, are we, are you representing the historical integrity of downtown?

Yeah, so one nice thing that, so Marriott, the way their design standards work is that, you know, once you, once in conjunction with them, you've selected kind of one of the flags, whether it's a Fairfield Suites or a Courtyard or what have you, they have, here's what our out-of-the-box looks like. They've already said that they will relax those standards so that we can incorporate it into the fabric of downtown. So they understand that it's not gonna be their out-of-the-box look. And so we've already got buy-in from them.

Is it all guest rooms? Are there like conference room facilities as part of it?

Yeah, so there'll be conference room. If you look to the left up there is... a plan for conference rooms uh... but you know somewhere in that three to six thousand and they were still working through the retail development and trying to figure out what the best mix of his uh... you know as it relates to retail and conference and the the other caveat was that if you Really the the farthest retail that's what well we call it the Fisher house. It's the house right next to Cedar Crest we've owned Cedar Crest now for over two years. We just have the Fisher house under contract as of like three weeks ago when unfortunately miss Fisher passed and The time he was right for the family to to sell the property This plan works without it it makes it a lot easier with it um we also own across the street the purcell property at the corner there and that was purchased about six months ago in part to kind of make sure that we had the right scale for parking and events and and any ancillary business that might uh come about and what about sixth street or do they have any

Were you getting any pushback from the residents on 6th Street?

You know, I mean, we've... We've tried to be it. We've been a good neighbor. I mean we most of them have my second Darren and the city can attest that I give my cell phone out to neighbors and they call me and We respond quickly if there's a if there's been an issue at Cedar Crest I don't know if there Chances are at least one of them is probably gonna say we don't want a four-story building that I mean just in total honesty but We want to be a good partner and a good neighbor and have never had an issue that we haven't been able to work through and resolve.

Are there any height restrictions on that side of 5th Street?

I believe the code, and Aaron, you can correct me. I believe it's 90 feet is what the ordinance is. Is that correct, Aaron?

Howdy. Aaron Beckman, city planner. It's 60 feet. Thank you.

In downtown, though, it's...

Downtown's a different zoning. Yeah, that's what I...

Right, that's what I was trying to clarify in my head. So anyway, downtown is a different zoning, and so you're across the street, which would allow the four stories.

Any other questions.

This will get into probably this group, you know the explanation of tax increment financing, but you mentioned in your presentation. What are some of the but for conditions for you as a developer that make this challenging and need to use something like tips.

Yeah, so it really, the environmental and the structural challenges of the site, it really, without TIF assistance, a project like this, of this scale and magnitude, would not be achievable.

Is it environmental asbestos or are there other environmental? Asbestos. It's strictly asbestos or are there other, okay.

No, it's asbestos. And then when you look at the related infrastructure around the site and the walkability of the site, lighting, streetscape, none of that, it doesn't work for a project like this.

Can you explain what you mean by that? What do you mean the lighting and streetscape doesn't work for a project like this?

Well, meaning that there's going to have to be significant off-site improvements to sidewalks, landscaping, a turning lane, curbs, gutters, things that, you know, you can't, we wouldn't be able to put this type of building on top of a site that had those challenges, that's laid out like it is now.

Without the TIF.

Yeah.

When do you expect to have this complete? Do you have a timeframe?

You know, we'd love to be able to start demolition certainly this, you know, kind of late summer and then really move into the construction phase so that by the end of 27, early 28, it would be open. Okay.

I'm sure this isn't set, but on 6th Street, are all those parking spaces going to be off of 6th Street?

You know, I would say that the rear there with 6th Street, the civil engineer is still kind of dialing in to how that's going to work.

But Mike, that's actually an alleyway. I was going to say, I didn't know if it was a street or a... It's an alleyway.

It's an alley with the neighbors. Is it currently up on a retaining wall? No, it's right out in there.

It's a grade now.

Yeah. I don't drive through that alley very often.

I used to use that for parking for Cedar Crest also, I think, because I sold some houses right there that

You know, unlike some projects where you're able to kind of scale as market demand to absorb some of the risk, you know, we couldn't build just 10 rooms and then, yeah, it's going well, and then build 20 rooms and then, yeah, it's going, you know, this, you know, the hotel side of things requires this type of density for this type of product. You can't, you know, Marriott won't even do product that's less than 80 rooms. And so... We really felt like that was, that's really important for this to be as successful as possible for the community and is that it has that flag. And I really think Washington's ready for that and it will just kind of further enhance the other kind of stakeholders within the community.

So if the height becomes an issue with the community is the third three stories optional or is probably not got to go with the four to make the money the number probably.

Does Marriott have any concerns about the number of parking spaces. So if you have a conference going on your full bed wise there happens to be an event going on downtown 163 spaces is not going to be enough.

That's why we bought Purcell.

Okay. So is that going to happen in conjunction with this or is it going to be a wait and see?

The answer is I don't know. I don't have a good answer for you. But that was a major driver in acquiring that property.

Are we thinking of developing that or just leaving it as it is and letting it be over full parking?

If it were used for parking, we would not leave it the way it is. It would be developed into a surface property. parking lot but we're also working with the other neighbors that are invested in that area whether it's um fisher oil the gas state the new i can't think of the auto express there's a popular restaurant that folks would love to have additional parking for so i think there's there's a lot of really good needs and stuff going on possibilities right there we're not talking a six-story parking garage though No, not five and a half.

I was going to say, are we talking five or?

I was going to say seven, so no, no.

But possibly a grudge.

You know that's not currently in our plans, but we're very open and understanding of parking challenges within downtown and while this will absolutely bring more people and Hopefully all those people want to stay here and walk downtown Maybe that will happen or won't happen, but we want to be part of the solution for parking whatever that looks like we're we're completely open book on it so up to and including having if there is parking across the street having that shared having that open for you know folks coming into town you know i think there's a way to to really work together so that it helps things and and doesn't hurt things The other thing that some of the studies that we looked at showed is, obviously, there's a huge spring, summer, fall, wedding environment, whether it's Hermann across the river here, but lodging is really challenging. So folks bus in for the wedding or bus in for the dinner, then bus out. We see this as now you can come here Friday night, everyone stays at the hotel, rehearsal dinner in Washington, wedding wherever on Saturday, come back. I think it can really, again, really improve things for businesses in this district.

which is what we're gonna you know that's what fifth street i mean fifth street needs it needs some positive activity you got to be able to do more than some love buy guns and hardy's biscuits that's right i mean can we still do that this is a this is just room this is just space it's the it's the ballrooms it's the bedrooms it's it's not um We're not aiming for this to be a full conference center or wedding venue that's going to take business from these other entities.

No, no, no, no, no. That's not the... It's just the space. Yeah. And this is dividable space. It can be for business groups, training seminars. you know, anywhere from 10 people to maybe 100 people. But it's not an event space.

Does Marriott allow, like, outside caterers to come in and still do that? Oh, yeah.

Because really, Marriott, you know, we... This will be operated by an independent third party that will be partners with. It has a lot of experience operating Marriott hotels. So a lot of that food and beverage and integration with retail, that's on the owner's side. Marriott has standards that you have to stay with them in order to be able to kind of be on their flag and on their reservation system. But there's a lot of autonomy with the operating partners.

I think they would they would need to be a partner with the community and not running out. Yeah, no.

Then going back to the parking issue. I just heard you say that conference area up to 100 100 people. So that's an addition to the to the guests to the guest day.

Yeah, and I would say that, again, that's why Purcell was important for us to purchase. I mean, I think if you look at your average occupancy, depending on when the event is, how many of those 100 are also staying in the hotel, how many of those rode two or three in a car. I mean, there's one-to-one on the hotel room side. Is normally pretty good. So we're over one to one. So we feel like we're in a good spot there.

But if you have retail and food, that's staff as well. So that's I mean, that's going to eat up all of your one to one space. And then if you happen to have a meeting that has 60, 70 people in it. You're done and there's no space on Fifth Street, right? So that's my concern if you guys don't do the Purcell lot initially Where are these people gonna park if you guys all of a sudden have a huge influx and people staying or events or anything like that, right?

I and i think that's valid i think that again that speaks to the importance of um you know getting this project from this stage to moving forward so that we can really collectively kind of work with the city and work with downtown to say what do we need to do to to

A full set of plans, I mean we're Yeah, probably 60 days So there's no restaurant in the hotel I

There'll be light food and beverage offering in a breakfast option, but it won't be a full service. A Courtyard Marriott or a Fairfield Inn, they've got a little section.

Can the retail, can those be restaurants?

Sure. mean the retail you know the retail is not set in stone at this location I mean I think we we'd love for that to happen but that's probably 40 parking spaces you know so if we say hey why don't we get it get the hotel established get the really feel good about where we're at there and then See what we can attract. I mean retail is tough. I mean everybody know it's in So we're not gonna build an empty shell of a retail building with the hopes that we've got a tenant We're gonna wait for that that right opportunity You know, are you gonna need a stoplight at either one of those corners? I Don't know I don't think so

If the parking is developed Would that be a separate project? What are the mechanics of that or would that be? Will that be rolled into this? It's just the timing on that is, you know off in the future Would it just come forward as if it even is even proposed as a TIF project as a separate winner? I

I think we'd have to probably work together on on figuring out if that's gonna be a project that's included with this or or not, I mean, you know, I Think I think again, I think we're totally open to combining those to make it one project. But I also want to be respectful of the other businesses in that area that we're working with to try and kind of work together. And it really all hinges on the ability to develop this.

Yeah. My question, I think, was more the mechanics of this process, if we would be looking at it as this is one project and later parking would come separately, or if the intent is

think the way that and and mark grim would probably be able to answer the question better or aaron as far as you know this district was established blighting an individual site but with with um the entire district is in this conservation area so that it's all eligible right on the on a project by project basis right

Any other questions?

All right, now.

All right. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. Thank you. That's all I have.

I think we're going to table the election of officers until the next meeting here, if I remember correctly.

What about the explanation of the text?

Yeah, you want to go to item number three? Mark, you want to come up?

Okay, good afternoon. I think everybody, or many of you, have a pretty good idea of how tax increment financing works, but it's been a while since Washington has done a TIF project, and so just to make sure we're all on the same page, I thought I'd give a brief overview of how TIF works and the process, and this might answer some of your questions about this project as well. As I understand it, the city, as Aaron mentioned, had been talking about the need to, quote, do something along the 5th Street corridor for some time, and it was just happenstance, I guess, it was my perception that both projects came along about the same time this was being considered anyway. the hotel. I don't want to forget about the rest of the corridor and and so what you know, you saw the vision up there of of this corridor that that's reminiscent of of what the city did in downtown to try and spur for some activity and redevelopment efforts. And one of the concepts that worked downtown, which I think has been in discussion here with the city is to Try and and and create some programs that would benefit Not just one big develop development and have maybe you know a streetscape program Have used part of the TIF revenues to create a facade improvement program so if you're a smaller owner of a smaller business or Building along Fifth Street that there would be some funds that can be accessed You know looking at a single property might not generate enough TIF revenues but the concept of having the corridor was to create something that's gonna benefit the wider area and have this program that people can apply for funds to maybe improve their individual business. So what will happen is when the TIF is created, assuming the city adopts tax and financing, the assessed valuation will be frozen for the area or for at least each redevelopment project area. And I'll get into that in a minute. Tiff captures 100% of the incremental real property taxes, with some exceptions, and 50% of the incremental sales taxes, with some exceptions. So generally speaking, what the taxing districts, other taxing districts, continue to receive throughout the TIF period is taxes on the base assessed valuation, personal property taxes, TIF doesn't capture. TIF does not capture the commercial surcharge that's imposed on commercial property. And then TIF doesn't capture, on the real property side, TIF doesn't capture the tax levy for the SB40 board. TIF doesn't capture taxes for emergency service districts, the ambulance district. On the sales tax side, TIF captures, as I've mentioned, only 50% of the sales taxes. 50% continues to be distributed to the county, the city, the other taxing districts. So all the TIF revenues go into a pot of money and can be used to pay for redevelopment project costs. And the city and the developer will negotiate what's the appropriate amount of incentives for that project. And as other projects come along, the city can determine what's appropriate for those projects. You might be wondering, why blighted area for part of the property and conservation area for other parts? One of the possibilities for the hotel project is that it may entail a community improvement district which would impose a sales tax just on that site. And the community improvement, it's not uncommon for a community improvement district to impose a separate room charge just on hotel rooms. And so under the community improvement district, statute if it's a blighted area you can spend money the CID revenues on a broader universe of costs such as demolition and environmental remediation so so so why did we not just do a conservation area for the for the entire area well that's why because it gives us added gives us collectively us wider flexibility on figuring out how to apply the funds to pay for those costs that you've heard about.

So it's not SID or TIF, it's SID and TIF.

Probably so, right. And again, the council had, you know, I mean, the proposal, I haven't even seen the proposal. It was submitted, what, today, yesterday? So, but, you know, obviously there have been discussions and we've been talking to the city for a long time about, hey, if you overlay tools, you know, I think many of us understand that from, if you're a, you know, property taxing district you would prefer to have have a CID developer may not prefer but if you're a property taxing district you'd prefer to have a CID overlay in order to lessen the amount of TIF assistance right so so we've been talking these concepts for quite some time

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Who can participate in the CIDs as far as other entities? Is that at the discretion of the city, or is it in statute as far as?

Well, at some point, there will have to be a discussion about, well, is the CID just the hotel, or is it broader? And I don't know if those discussions have been had.

But does the statute prescribe the types of entities that can participate, or is it pretty broad and it's at the discretion at the city level?

Well, the city would approve the formation, but it's really the property owners that decide, is it just a sales tax? Is it a sales tax plus a special assessment? What are the funding mechanisms for the CID? So if the CID is solely the hotel, then from a practical standpoint, it's just

property owner Any of our other projects to combine both of them, it was just the three tips were just tips, right?

Well correct, but the Phoenix Center We don't have any that have not It's very common on projects outside of Washington, but you're correct. All the TIFs have been solely TIFs, and the Phoenix Center is solely a CID.

So is there any of that in Franklin County?

Excuse me, anything that in Franklin County, or is it more... No, no other city in Franklin County has a TIF currently. It's being discussed. St. Clair is uh discussing a tiff um but i'm not aware i think union had one way back when that's uh long since is that my memory correct so if we're on the topic of just establishing a baseline of what's sorry what's normal out there do we have a lot is this a lot of tiff districts and said districts for our population for our size i don't know i i mean i i compared it to i i I look at other mid-sized communities like Cape Girardeau or Perryville, you know, as other communities that have used TIFs successfully in their downtown areas. Yeah. No argument about the validity of it.

It's just there's multiple districts, a big chunk of us that's not now contributing to the schools and the other issues there.

Yeah, actually, you raise a good point about, you know, quote, not contributing, you know, which, you know, Dr. Bauer actually raised the point about the but-for test, and so in order to create a TIF district, the TIF commission initially and ultimately the city council has to find that first of all that but for the adoption of TIF the redevelopment project would not reasonably be anticipated to occur and so what you know with respect to the project the hotel project information that the city has requested and I suspect is in the proposal very common is show us what the rate of return would be without This and and and what the rate of return is with the public assistance that you're requesting in other words Is it financial is it a financeable project without this level of assistance? So the but for test is one of the key findings. The other key finding is that It's got to be a blighted area or a conservation area within the meaning of the statute or a combination of blighted and conservation So The The proposed redevelopment area consists of three separate redevelopment project areas. one that would encompass just the hotel property, one that would encompass the site down by the Sonic and Dollar General, former Dollar General, and then a third, everything in between. And the reason for that is to give flexibility as to when the clock is turned on, so to speak, when the 23-year clock begins. And you may recall that the downtown TIF district had a similar kind with multiple redevelopment project areas. Lindsay with PJV is working on the redevelopment plan, cost benefit analysis. And so in advance of the next meeting, you'll receive those so that you can review those in advance and then come with any questions that you all have regarding once you see the actual documents. So I guess that's, I'd be happy to answer any high level questions. Regarding TIF. What is TIF and what's the process? We're going to talk about Schedule in a minute. Okay, just run into that and so the TIF Commission process so the TIF Commission I think you all know is a recommending body ultimately the council will make a finding or not that adoption of TIF So, statutorily, you've got to prepare a cost benefit analysis, and then provide 45 days notice of a public hearing. So the taxing districts have to receive 45 days notice of a public hearing. TIF commission will then have a public hearing, and then following the close of the public hearing, either at that meeting or at a subsequent meeting, will make its recommendation to the city council. on your agenda um shows a tentative date uh for a next meeting of june 10th um again it's subject to your all its availability and and um and the thought is that at that meeting is when we would ask you to answer any questions you have regarding the plan, the cost benefit analysis, ask you to set the public hearing date, and then for 45 to 60 days down the road. And then if you want to have meetings between, you know, Between two weeks from now and the public hearing 45 to 60 days You're certainly welcome to have as meet as many meetings as you want to make sure that you know all your questions All right Mark for the benefit of the board members, can you actually just describe what we're at what this board actually recommends?

We're

Yeah, so the TIF commission ultimately will be given a draft resolution and the recommendation would be, will basically be a recommendation of the council that the city council either adopt or not adopt tax increment financing and approve the projects that have been described in the redevelopment plan.

Is this commission actually signing off on the but-for test then? Yeah, so the resolution will say... Just to be clear.

Yes, so the resolution will say, yeah, we believe it's a blighted area, conservation area. We believe that the but-for test has been satisfied. So in the redevelopment plan... A lot of TIF districts, like the one that Andy Anishaw did, it was solely his property, right, was the TIF. Because this encompasses more than just the Bo Reinberg property, you'll see two affidavits in the redevelopment plan. One will be an affidavit from him saying for their site regarding the BUP4 test. And then we're going to ask the mayor to sign an affidavit with respect to the remainder of the redevelopment area that it's the city's belief that but for the adoption of TIF the remainder of the redevelopment project would not occur without the adoption of TIF. So the city takes a little added role because of the overall overarching area of the redevelopment area.

But does the clock start then on those other properties or does it start when a project comes forward?

So there will be three separate, looking down the road, there will be three separate ordinances, one for RPA1, one for RPA2, and one for RPA3. So it's the final adoption of those ordinances that triggers the capture of TIF revenue and triggers the 23-year clock. And so it's financially, you know, the city... particularly for the area in between. It's pretty self-evident for the hotel, for the other development site, the Dollar General site. When those projects are ready to go forward, it makes sense that we're going to adopt the ordinance. The Council is going to have an interesting decision. At what point do you pull the trigger on the area in between? Do you do it immediately and just start capturing, you know, kind of inflationary increment in order to try and generate a little bit more revenue for facade improvement program and streetscape and those types of things, or do you wait and do you look in your crystal ball and say, well, we think we're better off waiting two years? I don't know.

Well, that gets at my question earlier, because in the previous TIF projects, we were dealing with one developer, you know, had the property, and here you're going to obviously have multiples. That's why I was trying to get at, you know, so what we would be recommending is, you know, action really on this entire district and zones within that district. But once that's done is there individual projects that would come forward within that area that doesn't come back here that just goes to the city is that correct.

Not sure yet. I think we're going to be having those conversations. We being everybody in this room with the council and and the city and you know about for for those separate redevelopment project areas. Do we do we try and do we have enough information at this point to present to you or or do we focus solely or do we come back later on and to the tiff commission when we have more information about potential future projects so that's that's a valid question that um i'm not prepared to give an answer to today no that's maybe it's the next meeting we'll have some um we'll have some better insight on that

Yeah, I mean there's a few permutations that this project and then with the owner, you know with another phase of kind of this project, but then you have multiple who knows how many other projects down the road so Okay wants to put a six-story hotel in the Dollar General spot You know, when do we say stop right or does anybody have that power?

Well, certainly, I mean, planning and zoning.

They can do a little. Good.

Obviously, none of this circumvents the normal city planning and zoning approval process. All right.

THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE, YOU MENTIONED 100% OF REAL ESTATE, 50% OF SALES TAX. I DON'T RECALL, IS THAT PRESCRIBED OR IS THAT IT'S UP TO 100% REAL ESTATE, UP TO 50% SALES TAX WITH ANY LATITUDE OR?

YEAH, THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT. 100% of the incremental real property taxes with certain exceptions, but certainly one option is for the city to, let's say the city says, well, we're only going to make available for any project 75%, so the city would have the option of declaring a surplus 25%, for example, of the real property increment of the payments and low taxes that are captured. Now, on the Bank of Washington, I don't know, Darren, I forget.

I think it was 88.

88, yeah. Okay, so 80% was made available to Bank of Washington, 20% was retained by the city for other...

Improvements to the city.

Improvements to the city, within the district, like, within the district.

The 100 baskets are part of that.

So that money then is spent within that district. You can't spend Bank of Washington TIF money somewhere else. It has to be spent within the district.

So again, one of the decisions that the council is going to have to make is what do we do, how do we, if we want to spearhead a fund, basically a facade improvement program for the hotel project, how do we... So I think it's important to give enough money to that to make that project happen, but also maybe take part of that money to help the rest of 5th Street and kind of kick start some of the other stuff that the city wants to have happen.

So related question, 23 years is the maximum. Does it have to be?

I don't know that we've ever done less, but it can be less.

Well, certainly can be. I don't know on any of the downtown. I mean, once the redevelopment project costs have been paid, so I guess we could do the exercise of see where they're at on... It comes out. Any of those down other three projects? How are they progressing? And what's you know, I mean we could predict Are they going to pay off sooner because it it's not a blank check, you know Each of those projects like with particularly on the Andy Anastos project for instance, you know, he was approved for a certain amount of TIF assistance and and there's He basically holds a TIF note that once that note is paid, the TIF terminates. And so I think we can report back to you all and we can check and see kind of where that stands and give a prediction based on, you know, historical revenue. I mean, at this point, we've got a pretty good idea of how much money comes in. I'm sure you have a pretty good idea of how much money comes in every year and probably could predict. if that stays constant, you know, when would it pay off? So that's a good question.

Any other questions?

So will you, oh, go ahead.

Go ahead, Sandy.

Will you come back then with the,

the plan then at our next meeting here so Lindsay from PJV is doing them I mean they're drafting it and but they'll be here I'll be here so at the next meeting to answer any questions you know they will provide an overview of it of the plan and the cost-benefit analysis and then we both will be happy to answer any questions that you all have all right

Questions or comments.

If that works for the Commission, so that was a. Just for everybody works for me.

All right, that's all we have for today.

There's nothing else or motion to turn so move second.

Thank you.

All those in favor, aye. Aye.

All right, thank you. Thanks for your input.

Thank you. Thank you.