Council - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the East Lansing City Council regular business meeting of August 11 2026. The time is 601. The meeting will come to order. Could we have the roll call please?

Council Member Whalen. Here. Council Member Meadows. Here. Council Member Singh. Here. Mayor Pro Tem Grigsby. Here. Mayor Altman.

Here. Is there a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Moved by Meadows. Second. Second by Whalen. Any discussion of the agenda? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda is approved. Is there a motion concerning the minutes of previous meetings?

I have a motion to approve both the special council minutes from July 21st and the regular council minutes from July 21st.

Motion by Singh, second by? Second. Second by Grigsby. Any corrections to those minutes? Seeing none, the motion is on the minutes as presented. All those in favor of approval say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries, the minutes are approved. Communications. All written communications are linked to the agenda packet. Communications from the audience. I did have one slip which is relevant to one of the hearings. I will call that in the hearing. When the hearing comes around on the agenda, the rest of the slips I will proceed to call now. Erica Schmidt-Deel.

Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt-Deal. I'm an East Lansing homeowner and a social worker. I am here regarding the racialized violence that occurred in our town once again this past weekend. I think it's very interesting that these incidences keep happening on camera, and I would like to know how many incidences are happening that we don't know about. I think it's very interesting that East Lansing Insider reports that racialized violence is increasing, has increased 50% in 2025 since Jen Brown came to our town, or I'm sorry, I know she was already an East Lansing police officer, rose to the rank of chief. I think that she needs to resign or be fired. and I will keep my comments brief because I know there are a lot of folks here that share my sentiment. Thank you.

Thank you. Abby Takaki.

The video of our city employees restraining and beating a 20-year-old black woman was difficult to watch. And to Mayanna and her family, I am so sorry and I am outraged that this has happened to you in my hometown. I was also disappointed to learn that the draft update to our police use of force policy removed the principle of preservation of life. What possible public safety purpose is served by removing that guiding principle for our police officers? especially here in a city with well-documented racial disparities when our police choose to use force. Knowing these disparities, I want to know how this council can trust the judgment of a police chief and city attorney who thought removing preservation of life from our policy was an acceptable recommendation. I also cannot understand the ELPD's resistance to improving our trauma-informed anti-racist and de-escalation training. I completed basic crisis advocate training through MSU's Survivor Advocacy and Crisis Intervention Center. It took an insignificant amount of time out of my life, but that time changed the way that I see people in crisis. I learned how trauma shapes behavior. I learned how to avoid victim blaming. I learned that when someone is overwhelmed, terrified, or dysregulated, meeting force with more force rarely creates safety. I am a 46-year-old mom with a full-time job, not in law enforcement, And if I can learn those skills and use them to help people through the worst moments of their lives, why can we not demand the same from the people we give badges, weapons, and the legal authority to use deadly force? Imagine how many encounters could end differently. Imagine how many injuries could be prevented, how many unnecessary arrests, how many families shattered. How many lives could be different if an officer's first instinct was to preserve life? And now I want to address the people who have been coming here for nearly a year asking the City Council for help. Our city attorney recently called you, us, vicious, quote-unquote, anti-law enforcement and a small but vocal cadre of self-styled activists, but let me correct that. They are vocal because they are scared. They are parents who are scared for their children. And some are parents whose children have already been harmed by our police. And if it were my child who was restrained and punched when she needed medical attention, if it were my child who was pepper sprayed while trying to deescalate a conflict and then publicly defamed by our chief of police, if it were my child who was shot and killed by a police officer, I would sound angry too. But anger is not hatred of law enforcement. It is what love sounds like when people are afraid that their children are not safe. These residents, and they are residents and neighbors, are asking for accountability, transparency, and justice. They are asking for any indication from this council that the city will stop hiding behind process and start taking responsibility. And we are demanding better because the question before you is not whether our community speaks in the proper tone, at an easily digestible volume, or with sufficiently tempered level of urgency. The question is, are any of you even listening?

Thank you, James McCurtis, Jr. Good evening, everyone.

My name is James McCurtis, president of the NAACP Lansing branch. Thank God for the video. Young lady was on the ground, young black woman on the ground, face down, legs bent, screaming in pain. She was detained. She was punched several times, taken to jail, hit her head, taken to the hospital, and then released. She, to my knowledge, wasn't even charged. Basically she was beaten and then sent home. Now, would this have happened to a blonde-haired, young, white woman? In two weeks, it'll be a year since Welcome Week, a year since the pepper spring, a year since Police Chief Jennifer Brown said minorities come to East Lansing to commit crimes. A few months ago, the Human Rights Commission report about excessive force came out about how there's a disproportionate number of excessive force used against black people. A few months ago, since the city council, a few months ago, the city council has stripped power from the Human Rights Commission. A few months ago, Isaiah Kirby was shot and killed after he was detained. And I was sat in a meeting with the Kirby family, with the city attorney who's to my left, who used language toward the mother and the family that was appalling. And to speak to a mother whose son was just killed by the police and you representing the city as the attorney using that kind of language, to me, It sort of makes sense how East Lansing treat black people. It's all clear and it's a clear message that has been sent to the citizens of East Lansing, the greater Lansing area, black people around, black and brown people here, all allies. East Lansing wants it this way. East Lansing hasn't done anything Not one thing to stop what has been going on with black and brown people, the excessive force that has been used. It's been on video. And not only was this young lady put on the ground, face down, knees bent and beaten, she was exposed. And the police didn't do anything about it. They didn't do anything to try to cover her up.

They just let her be exposed. I will say this.

If dogs were treated the same way, Jennifer Brown would have been fired. And that's a shame that I have to say that. But it's the truth. And it's appalling. It's appalling that Chief Jennifer Brown still has her position. It's appalling that this culture of excessive force and pattern of racism is still going on. Within the East Lansing Police Department, it's appalling that the attorneys telling council members not to speak out, not to say anything. Council members work for us. They don't work for the city attorney. They work for us. They work for the people of East Lansing. And you're told to be quiet. Don't say anything. There is going to be litigation. There's going to be litigation anyway. There's going to be lawsuits anyway because of the way that you treat black and brown people. Two weeks from now, it's welcome week. How are you going to treat the students that come in? How are you going to treat the minority black and brown students that come here? Going to pepper spray them, arrest them, shoot them, kill them? What are you going to do? The message has been sent from East Lansing. Look, Chief Brown having her position right now, by her still being the police chief of East Lansing, not firing her or having her not resign is a message that you do not care about black and brown people.

Thank you, Dr. Barb Anderson. Barb Anderson.

Hello. I've lived in East Lansing for almost seven years now. I've been a city election worker the last three years. And the most recent, the primary election, I was glad to see two police cars go through the parking lot. And there was nothing untoward that happened. It was a peaceful election. But then I read about what happened on August 2nd and I'm just appalled. This doesn't seem like a city of caring when this woman My Nana, if I'm saying her name right, Collins, was punched by the police when she's lying face down handcuffed. And this comes after the April 15th police killing of Isaiah Kirby. You know, I don't know everything about these incidents and the fall last year incident, but I think there's something wrong here because I don't know what kind of de-escalation training the police are having, but obviously it isn't working because we need to help people who have mental issues or whatever, you know, not beat them up or kill them. Thank you.

Thank you. Jack McQuig.

Good evening. Howdy. My name is Jack McQuig. I'm a teacher in Waverly Community Schools and a resident in Lansing, former resident of East Lansing. I'm here tonight, once again, I'm just appalled by the actions of the ELPD. As a history teacher, it seems like folks who are in charge of this city are not very well learned on the history of the city. East Lansing being a sundown town well into the 1980s should be at the forefront of your minds. when you're thinking about how this community is policed. When you strip away the powers of the oversight board for the police, and then there's a rise in racialized violence by the police, you should not be surprised. What you should be doing is taking action. You are not simply managers of zoning or whatever propositions are actually on the agenda tonight. You are supposed to be leaders of a community. And leaders do not allow essentially children to be beaten by the police directly in front of them. You don't allow someone who continues to allow systematic abuse like Jen Brown to continue to be our police chief. I'm just going to read out the rest of the demands from the Lansing NAACP and then I'm going to give up my time. ELPD needs to immediately release all the body cam footage from the incident. The ELPD and the City of East Lansing must provide full transparency regarding the incident and its aftermath. The City must conduct a full review of the use of force practices within the ELPD.

And once again, Jennifer Brown must resign or be fired.

Good night.

Thank you. Nazita Lajevardi.

Good evening. My name is Nazita Lajevardi. I'm a resident of East Lansing and a professor of political science. I study American politics, race, and representation. Almost 10 years ago, I co-published a book on American policing. In that book, my co-authors and I found that police forces that reflect not only the racial diversity of the communities that they police, but also the values of those communities, HAVE FEWER EXCESSIVE FORCE COMPLAINTS, FEWER FATAL ENCOUNTERS, AND STRONGER ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISMS LIKE CITIZEN REVIEW BOARDS. AND FOR EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS I HAVE TAUGHT AT MICHIGAN STATE WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE THE SAME AGE AS MYANNA COLLINS GO OUT TO THE BARS AND HANG OUT AND COME INTO CLASS AND LEARN ABOUT POLITICS. AND TONIGHT I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT TRUST BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THIS CITY IS LOSING. Like so many of you, I watched the video from the early hours of August 2nd. I watched a 20-year-old woman tased, handcuffed, and carried down the stairs of Harper's and held face down by multiple officers while one of them punched her. She was restrained. She was screaming. She was terrified. And as a woman, I don't know what was transpiring, but what I saw made me fear for sexual violence. And I am not claiming that that's what happened, but if I were in that position and a man was holding my legs down and was climbing on top of me with my butt exposed and my bottom parts exposed, I would fear that he would try to enter me. And I am so afraid of even saying that out loud, but my body is shaking right now. That's how I felt watching that video, and I cannot imagine how badly she felt. She was never charged with a crime, and she was so hurt badly enough that she needed to go to the hospital. So I think we need to understand how severe this incident is. And if this were an isolated incident, then we might call it the failure of just one officer, but it is not one incident. In the last year alone, this department has taken the life of Isaiah Kirby, another one of our students, and has faced repeated excessive force complaints from black residents. And again, of course, Chief Brown made the comments about a disproportionate number of minorities coming into the city and committing crimes. These are the Chief's own words. And when a leader of a department describes minorities as the problem, the officers beneath her are hearing those messages, and they are following their leaders. Incidents that repeat under this kind of leadership are not accidents, they are a pattern. And patterns come from a culture and that culture comes from leadership. So I'm saying this very carefully as somebody who studies institutions, not in anger, but I believe that the community's trust in Chief Brown has, it's deteriorated. My research teaches me that trust, once it's broken, cannot be repaired, but that it can be repaired. It can be repaired by your actions. You are our representatives. Others have said this. It is to you who we look for, for accountability. And I urge you to please consider this very seriously. This is an opportunity to do some repair. I'm going to just thank some people who have spoken up. I want to thank Council Member Singh. Thank you. Because you posted a message saying that you were deeply impacted and you demanded the de-escalation and use of force policies with urgency. You also spoke up when there were allegations of sexual harassment. And for what you've said and what you've done, I am deeply grateful in these instances. Thank you. I also want to draw attention to former prosecutor Carol Seaman for saying that it looked like an inappropriate response for yet another black person in this city to be treated the way they were. I want to also say this. I've worked in a DA's office. For a former prosecutor to make a statement about the colleagues that she used to work with and whose credibility she relied on to press charges This is very important, right? If our prosecutors are losing trust in law enforcement, that is yet another sign that we have a serious problem here. So I believe that accountability means releasing the footage, explaining why she was arrested at all, having oversight, allowing Ellie Pak to do their work, and of course replacing the leadership of Chief John Brown.

You have 30 seconds remaining.

We are your constituents. We live here. We raise families here. We fill this downtown. We understand that investigations take time and we understand due process is something we must all respect. But we would like to hear your outrage. We would like to hear your reactions. It is important to us as your community members. Thank you.

Thank you. Emily Adams.

Hello. All right.

My name is Emily Adams. I've been a teacher in East Lansing for the past five years. I'm a teacher. I've been a librarian in East Lansing for the ELPL. I just wanted to bring a different point of view about Chief Jen Brown. We had an incident. My friend had an incident. We asked to sit down and meet with Jen Brown. Our experience turned positive. Something terrible happened and we talked about it. We talked about the incident. She was open. She was receptive. We were able to ask Jen Brown questions, give our point of view. Our goal in meeting with her was to make positive changes in our community. For the next generation of students, the students that I work with, I don't want them to be scared to drive through East Lansing. There's a lot going on, but we felt like it was very, very important to go directly to the source, and I just want to tell everyone that we felt heard. It was positive. Chief Jen Brown was engaged. She was open to communication. She was open to ideas. And she has initiated multiple trainings for these officers over the year that she has been here. Um, I'm seeing positive growth. I'm, I see her as a very strong woman that cares very deeply about her community and I can tell

that she cares about all these people.

Anyway, but I just wanted to bring a positive light. We went directly to the source. We met with her. She was open, engaging, and I feel like she's making positive changes. Thanks.

Thank you. Kyle Richard. Kyle Richard, please.

Good evening. My name is Kyle Rashard. I'm a candidate for Lansing School Board, but I'm here tonight as your neighbor down the street. I'm speaking in favor of the firing or resignation of Chief Jen Brown, the return and expansion of powers for the East Lansing Police Oversight Commission and the Human Rights Commission, justice for Mayanna Collins, Isaiah Kirby, Mason Woods, Lonnie Smith, and any members of the community who have been harmed by East Lansing Police Department's discriminatory policing. Last time I was down here, I was speaking against the criminalization of homelessness in East Lansing. And I told you all that it was bad for the neighborhood. I think in the case of Chief Jen Brown, she's bad for the neighborhood. If Chief Jen Brown in East Lansing is allowed to say the things that she says, what are they allowed to say down in Eaton Rapids? I work as a teacher down in Eaton Rapids. I went to middle school and high school down in Eaton Rapids. What are they allowed to say in Eaton Rapids if you can say that up here in East Lansing? If the police in East Lansing can do what they do here in East Lansing, what can they do down in Eaton Rapids? They just killed a man recently for fleeing, running away from the police, shot him in the back. But what happens here in East Lansing, that's a model. We build the future through the model we create. If you don't put out a good model, people are going to replicate a bad model. On top of all of the racism and police violence in this community, I also from my limited exposure to East Lansing City Council think Jen Brown is bad at her job. It was either the meeting I was at or the meeting immediately after. I was watching on YouTube, and y'all were talking about this anti-homelessness ordinance, and basically came to the conclusion, we want to table this for now. We don't want to finish this discussion tonight. Can we schedule this out for this day? And she says, well, I'm not available that day, and so no one from the police department will be here. You're not available, so no one from the police department will be here? And it was someone from over here that pushed back and said, can anybody from the police department come out for this? Who do you work for here? And she says, oh, well, my deputy could come out, but he hasn't been briefed. Whose job is it to brief the deputy? If this is a priority for the department, why is the deputy chief not briefed on it? And so I just think that East Lansing's not setting a good model for the neighborhood at the moment, and I would call again for the firing and resignation of Chief Jen Brown and the return and expansion of powers for East Lansing Police Oversight Commission and Human Rights Commission. Thank you.

Thank you. Carrie Freeman. Carrie Freeman.

I'm going to stick out like a sore thumb in this important conversation, but I am here to talk to you briefly about 1576 Business Item 6.1. I just want to remind you all that I think service is required mailing to all the parties before you take action on 1576, and I think it was required at Planning Commission and City Council level. And I think even if you found, you know, from your council finds from a legal perspective that it wasn't required, I think you want to work with the citizens. And I think you want them to know what's going on. You guys work for the citizens. So don't you want that collaboration? I would hope you would from them. I'd hope you want them to know what's going on with 1576. I actually received more signatures this week as well. I continue to get them and I continue to get people who call me about the petition that I submitted on July 21st. And we already have the 20% requisite in order to make the adoption of 1576 be a super majority requirement vote for that. But I want to tell you that I keep getting signatures and I think it matters because of what the signatures represent it shows that there's an opposition to 1576 and I think the heart of what 1576 is which is the diverse housing requirement and it applying across the board and I think the goal of the diverse housing requirement is desired and it's necessary and that is not the point here that we don't want it it's that it the ordinance has proven to be an impediment to development and an impediment to the development of diverse housing and and the community's recognizing this, and I hope you can all see that. So I was really happy to see that it looks like you guys are deferring today the conversation or potential adoption of 1576. I sure hope that you do. I think it will give you the opportunity to do something that actually makes sense and actually makes something that incentivizes diverse housing in our community versus I see it as almost a penalty type of form to require somebody to put diverse housing into their development. And in my conversations with everybody, there's so many local developers and property owners and citizens that have a wealth of knowledge about this stuff. They've lived here all their lives, they own property here, they've watched everything go on, and they have great ideas and information that could really help you guys attain, I think, something that could really work for our community. And I am here as a resource for you to put you in contact with those people. We could do town halls, we could do small meetings, whatever you guys think might make sense to really collaborate with your community to find out how we can actually accomplish diverse housing. So I'm here again to just request you to not approve 1576 at all, but if you aren't going to do that today, at least continue to defer it until we find a better solution that actually accomplishes the diverse housing goal. Thank you.

Thank you. Isabella Tillotson?

Hi.

So I'm also here to talk about the police violence that occurred this past weekend. And the fact of the matter is that if Myonna Collins was white, she would have been met with help and not hate. Anytime I see or hear of police violence happening in East Lansing, I wonder why it's always a black person that's the victim. And I know why. And I don't think it's right or fair to your community to ignore why. And the problem is racism. And it's not an isolated incident. It's a pattern. And it's systemic. Chief Brown is clearly not competent for her role and she must be removed from her position. Chief of Police is meant to protect the whole community not just the white members of the community. That includes our black and brown neighbors. It's not right, it's really despicable. And I think as representatives of our city, you should want more for your community. Thanks.

Thank you. Shannon.

Hello. My name is Shannon and I am the mother of Myonna Collins. I'm not a... We all watched the video. We all seen my daughter tased, handcuffed, restrained by multiple officers, and then told to shut up while she was screaming, terrified for her life, and then punched repeatedly by an officer who is supposed to protect and serve. While lying helpless on the ground, face down again, hands restrained by a zip tie, it appears, on the inner back. panicked. This has been very traumatic for both my daughter and my family, my friends, many of those who are here tonight to support me and my daughter. This is an issue that continues to be swept under the rug, specifically in East Lansing and all across the United States obviously, but we've seen it with our own eyes. And we want answers. We want every body camera recording from every officer involved. We want to know why this level of force was used against a restrained young black woman who needed help and not extreme excessive force that anyone else would be charged with assault and battery for. And I know for a fact, If this was a young woman that looked like me or blonde, whatever, white, this wouldn't have happened. She would have been met with compassion. So it's, you know, it's just not about my daughter. It's about accountability. We're asking this council to demand transparency. Independent oversight and accountability, not just in my daughter's case, but in every case where excessive force is used, particularly against black and brown people, is there is clearly a repetitive pattern of racism that is clearly not being addressed by your police chief or so-called chief. Policies must be enforced. Officers who violate them must be held accountable. Our family deserves answers. This community deserves honesty. And every resident, regardless of the color of their skin, deserves to know that those sworn to protect will be held accountable when they abuse that power and that they are safe in this community. Thank you.

Thank you. Samara? Hello.

I am a friend of Mayanna Collins, and seeing someone that I love go through such a traumatic event is truly heartbreaking. When will this stop? When will the police be held accountable? When will people recognize that this treatment towards minorities is unacceptable and unjust? I have seen many people judge my honest character based on a 13 minute video without taking the time to look at the bigger picture or question the actions, authority and accountability of the police. Instead of focusing on her character, we should be asking why incidents of police brutality to continue to happen and begin to the change to prevent them. My honor deserves to be heard. She deserves to be respected and treated with fairness and dignity and deserves justice.

Thank you. Colleen O'Brien. Colleen O'Brien, I'm sorry.

I affirm all the struggles that were communicated here, but I'm gonna wait till 5.2 on the agenda item to public comment.

The public hearing. Yes.

Farron Mitchell. Farron Mitchell.

Hello, everyone. I am Farron Mitchell. I am a local Lansing resident and an activist. I'm here to share my experience with ELPD. Although I am a fairly normal middle class person, born and raised here in the area, with law enforcement ties, even meeting with Chief Jen, I am still paralyzed with fear and still shun at entering the city of East Lansing. And I feel our collective experiences as African Americans are largely ignored and ostracized. I have also been a victim of police misuse of force in this city, and I've also experienced racism in the city of East Lansing. I am here to support the creation of culturally informed, evidence-based, trauma-informed structural reforms that are ethical and constructive. As I share in your anger, your repugnance as well, and I also come with a social change and solutions-oriented mind. We have plenty of facts to show over the years. The lack of fairness in policing with 33% of black respondents were dissatisfied with the overall service of East Lansing police. Black residents trust in ELPD officers was 45% lower than other respondents. The majority of black respondents also did not believe ELPD treated black people fairly. In the 2010s, African Americans accounted for approximately 18 to 41% of arrests, just being 7.8% of the population. And according to the city's Police Oversight Commission, 46% of black residents were the recipients of use of force. In 2023, it was 58%. And in 2024, it was 46%. All while black residents make up approximately 8% of the population. What's not mentioned in this data is the experience of Lansing residents like myself who have to travel maybe to the other side, Okemos, and are afraid, literally, to drive through the city. In, let's see, 2025, there was 198 use of force incidents compared with 131 in 2024, which is a 50% increase. The Fair and Impartial Policing Assessment found that ELPD personnel rated their relationship with African Americans the weakest of all their relationships. So what we know from our experiences and what we know from the data tells us that black people's experience here, they experienced substantially greater police contact and use of force. We also know that solutions need to be had. So the ELPD has been in existence for 105 years and I don't think anyone here is 105 years old but Chief Brown has been at the helm for approximately a year. So again, I share in my anger and my fear for my safety. Let's not pretend that the current culture in East Lansing has anything to do with Jennifer Brown. I believe that it's a misguided and unfair direction of our anger and that there are a plethora of solutions that can be provided outside of trying to demand the resignation of a female chief of police. So if we're also talking history, Chief Brown graduated from Everett High School with my own family members. So assuming racism is the issue is a false premise. I believe that the officers who take these actions should be held accountable and terminated. We don't need proclamations. We need precise solutions with the assistance of local activists, this body, the NAACP, the Human Rights Commission, and the Indian Police Oversight Commission. Thank you.

Thank you. Amanda Morgan.

Hello, my name is Amanda Morgan. I'm here as a public member speaking, and I'm not here as a representative of the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Commission. Tonight, I want to get ahead of some things. In two weeks, the students come back. I was a student, by the way, at MSU from 94 to 99. Since that time, I can remember students binge drinking and getting into trouble a lot. Some of those white boys, I tell you, they did a lot of stuff. As a matter of fact, it was MSU where I learned about drug culture from white men. But I say that because guess what's happening in two weeks? Students are coming back, they're going to show up at your bars, they're going to drink and behaviors are going to ensue. One of the things I recommend you do is get out of the power struggle of police versus the community and bring in people who could actually do something, who actually be good frontline interventions like paramedics. If you go to YouTube today, you can look up paramedics at festivals, at music festivals. And they do parodies of themselves. They talk all the time about things they've had to intervene and do. Festivals hire paramedics. Burning Man, South by Southwest. I'm pretty sure there's a few festivals in Michigan who does as well. That's something that East Lansing might consider doing in conjunction with MSU, hiring a paramedic to be available on Friday and Saturday, especially on heavy weekends. I wish the listening ear was still around because that would have been a good program to coordinate with to get volunteers who'd be willing to walk around East Lansing to be interventionists, to help smooth situations. Because I'm here to tell you as a mental health professional, the things I've seen in public view, I would not do the same as police. I don't feel afraid. Why do I not feel afraid like they do? Because we live in a culture that reinforces authoritarianism over community. If my voice is too loud, they can use authority. If I don't say it right, they can use authority. If my face doesn't look right, they can use authority. And we do have a line here, a racist line. East Lansing is known as a sundown town. It has barely, barely gotten out of that, and it's reverted back to it. East Lansing pretends to be a college town like Notre Dame or U of M, but we're not. We're not. What happens, as a public member, as a social worker, I need to rely on the police and the community to be safe with people with mental health and mental distress. I need to know a police officer's not gonna act on suicide by cop, for example. Because, and it happens, and again, there's that line again, when a cop will act and not act, and they should never act. They should know better and they should see it coming. Another example is I should be able to trust that an intoxicated person who's just acting stupid doesn't get beaten on a camera. That was horrible. That was just horrible all around. And bureaucracy and policy and procedures tell us that we have to ignore it. We have to pretend like that didn't happen. But if you're not human enough to say that was just wrong, You're part of the problem, and so are the policies and procedures that allow that to happen. If we're going by the law as, well, the police have a right to do that, that's not a fair law. It's not okay. I will say that this is a system issue. I hear the community, and I hear that they want specific people to resign, and I hear that. I understand it. But I also remember this is a system issue. This has been built into the things that we do, city council, into policing, into how the community is allowed to respond. And we have to change the system. It's just time. What other cities are dealing with regarding ICE and fascism is coming here. And gosh, Trump just loves the fact that you all are ripe to help him be fascist. Maybe some of you are paid. I don't know. But what I do know is the problem is getting bigger and bigger. It's not going away. People are no longer going to accept violence as a form of de-escalation, for example. It's just not. People are no longer going to accept these double standards.

Thank you. Miriam M.K. Banyi.

Good evening. Thank you. My name is Reverend Miriam, MK Bungie, and I live in Lansing, Michigan. Um, I am a member of the executive, a member of the NAACP, and I am a member at large on the executive committee. Um, I want to say that I agree with president James McCurtis and others who are calling for the resignation and or firing of police chief Jennifer Brown. Acts of racism, these acts of racism in East Lansing are more than appalling. I would think and hope we all agree on that. As I think about it, if I am retired as well as my husband, we are of the Lutheran denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. And if I was a pastor in a congregation and these acts of racism had occurred under my leadership, I hope and I do believe my bishop would ask me to resign. And if I didn't, he would or she would tell me to resign. I don't know, maybe even lose my ordination. So I ask for the resignation of Police Chief Jennifer Brown, and if she does not agree to that, I don't like to use the language, but the firing of Police Chief Jennifer Brown. obviously a white woman, privileged being white. My son, who is now 34, who graduated from Waverly High School, we never had to have the DWB conversation with him, which I didn't even know what that meant, driving while black, like some of his black classmates did. But this has to stop. And my I will say my black and brown friends have especially helped me to hang on to hope in this time of our country and our world. And so I hope and trust that East Lansing can do better than this. I have served a congregation in East Lansing in the past, and my husband has also served a congregation in East Lansing. This needs to stop and I think we need to have intervention for the police chief as well as the leadership of the city council, guidance, whatever, and help for going on and also offering some kind of help for the families that have been so violently and painfully hurt. Thank you.

Thank you. Karen Hone.

Hello. It is with a heavy heart that I stand before you again to talk about yet another incident of police violence and brutality in East Lansing. Yet again, another person of color, this time a young 20-year-old black girl named Myanna, was the victim. I have to assume that you have all watched the video of this young woman, this child, screaming in terror, pain, and fear for her life, screaming, they're trying to kill me, you are racist, while five armed police officers tased her and then brutalized her while she is handcuffed on the ground with her face on the pavement. I'm sure you have all watched the video and saw an East Lansing police officer punch her multiple times in the back with a closed fist while she continues to scream in pain, terror, and fear for her life and while the other police officers did nothing to stop him. As I've asked you many times, as human beings and the body elected to serve and represent your city, do you feel pride in the police department and in the leadership of the police department as you watch this? Do you watch this and think, This is an acceptable standard of policing. I have faith in our police to keep our community safe and to keep peace in our community. Or do you, like those of us with a conscience, watch this video and feel sickened, outraged, devastated, and horrified? Do you watch this and think as those of us with a conscience do? that this is a disgraceful, abhorrent travesty of justice. Do you watch this and ask yourself, as those of us with a conscience do, why didn't any of these police officers exhibit enough self-control to realize they were brutalizing a handcuffed child who so obviously feared for her life? And say, wait, stop, enough, this is not okay. You want us to believe that it's not the institution of policing that is flawed, it's just a few bad apples. Well, I ask you, where are the good apples? Where are the good apples? Where were the good apples when they pepper sprayed Lonnie and Mason in the face in an enclosed entryway at close range? Where were the good apples when multiple officers filed multiple shots rounds into the body of Isaiah Kirby as he laid dying on the pavement trying to cut his own neck? Where were the good apples when they opened fire in the parking lot at Meyers lodging bullets into bystanders' cars as they shot D'Anthony Van Atta in the back for allegedly shoplifting some ears of corn? Where are the good apples? Was Jen Brown a good apple when she said there are a disproportionate number of minorities coming into our community and committing crimes? Was Jen Brown a good apple when she stood by as her officers pepper sprayed Lonnie and Mason in the face at close range in an enclosed space? Was Jen Brown a good apple when she brandished her pepper spray at a young woman who was speaking up about police racism and then watched her police officers violently cuff this young woman for using her voice? Police violence against people of color has been happening for as long as I can remember in East Lansing. I went through East Lansing Public Schools, my three children went through East Lansing Public Schools, and now my three grandchildren go to East Lansing Public Schools. We have been protected by our white skin. However, I cannot say the same for my friends and the friends of my children. East Lansing has a long history of racialized violence against people of color. And in the last year, under the tenure of Jen Brown, it has gotten worse. Throughout this year, many black and brown community members have come regularly to council meetings and asked you to do something. And what have you done? You have stripped and diminished the powers of the Human Rights Commission and LAPOC, the two commissions charged with oversight of human rights and police practices. You have shortened public comment, prohibited freedom of speech at meetings, and voted to put a sergeant of arms at city council meetings because you're worried that something bad is going to happen. You have sat silent for the most part, rarely acknowledging or responding to the pains and fears of your constituents. In the latest episode, only Councilmember Abrasal Singh has had the humanity, courage, and strength to address it and share her concerns and to call for accountability, and I thank her deeply. I ask you all, what will it take for you to do something? More shot, brutalized, terrorized, traumatized, and dead black and brown bodies? As long as you all continue to sit silently, listening to bad advice from lawyers from outside our community that are getting rich off of the suffering of others, you are complicit, responsible, and guilty, and you will have to live with this on your shoulders for the rest of your lives. Thank you.

Thank you. Kayla Gomez. Kayla Gomez.

Good evening.

I'm up here again speaking about the video of Maiana Collins' arrest outside of Harper's on August 2nd. Everyone in this room has likely seen it by now. Nearly 14 minutes of a young black woman handcuffed and face down screaming they're being racist and please help me. One officer punches her repeatedly in the back, yet she was not charged with anything. I want to be direct about why this matters beyond the single incidents. It's not an isolated event. In the last year, East Lansing police have faced serious repeated questions about use of force against black and brown residents. from the fatal shooting of Isaiah Kirby in April to the Pepper Spring incident during Michigan State's Welcome Weekend to this now. Each time, the pattern is the same. A video surfaces, the department says it doesn't tell the whole story, an internal investigation is opened, and the public is asked to wait. That pattern itself is the problem. It tells residents accountability only happens when there's footage, and even then, only on the department's timeline. And just to remind you, we still have no answers for any of those incidents that I just mentioned, not to this date. I'm asking for two specific things tonight because I'm up here a lot. But the first is the full unredacted body-worn camera footage for all responding officers released without delay. That's just the public's right. An independent investigation, not one of inside the police department. I'm sorry, but the trust is not here for the public. Ms. Collins was intoxicated and needed help, not to be punched while restrained on the ground by multiple officers. This council has the authority to demand transparency. I'm asking you to use it.

Thank you. Antonio Gomez.

Hello. I came here tonight knowing exactly what I was going to say to every one of you. And I was going to be pretty damn mean to each of you. I will stand by what I said. I do not think you're qualified to be here. But I've been talking to some members of the community. And they are desperate for something to be done here. And I've been asked to tone down my comments. So hopefully, some of you do something for once. Why am I having to stand here and listen to my community members while you aren't? I'm literally doing your job better than you are right now. So on that behalf, I guess I have to figure out what else I'm gonna say right now. That will be afforded to basically everyone here except for you. You I'm still going to be mean to, Mr. Meadows. Give me one second here. Singh, I am happy that you have said something. One of you has at least said something about this incident that's transpired. And that's nice to know. It is. And I know you believe that if we want to move the council members to do something, we should be expressing how in danger we feel about these scenarios. But I kind of find that comical. So I'm going to be critical here still. But I kind of find that comical because that's what we've been doing. That's what we started doing. That we feel afraid here. So were you just not paying attention when we said that? That we feel afraid in our own community? I believe that comment was a bit tone deaf, that you'd even say that, and we've already been there. We already went down that line. We went from saying we're afraid to, you know, trying to shame you, and then to being critical of each and every one of you. And I mean, Yeah, I just don't get it. Chuck, I've heard you are appalled by the scenario that happened, but I need to see it. I need to see you do something. I don't care if you have to go to war with all your other council members. The community will have your back on that. Do something. People are hurting. Mr. Wayland, I believe you'd said community service is a great thing to partake in, and I agree. You know, being a member of the community, doing a council person's job, that's all well, but you are dropping the ball on like the biggest issue we're having in the city right now, and it's the safety of your community members. So, I mean, I know you came out of retirement for this, but maybe you should have stayed in retirement if you're not going to listen to us. People are asking you to do something. Do something. Sorry, man, you're just not worth my time. That leaves you. I sat here. as you told the people that it was your actions who led to the review of the HRC, so their power would eventually be taken away. And oh, God, did that make me mad. And it finally dawned on me, this whole facade, what it looks like to me, your look, that comment. You, sir, Looked like a fine southern gentleman. One that would have definitely owned the plantation back in the day. What? Black and brown people finally had an avenue in the HRC to maybe get some justice out of what's happening to them? And you have to have it reviewed? You have 30 seconds to name it. Had to have it taken away? Fucking disgusting.

Thank you. Thomas McCurdy.

Good evening. My name is Thomas McCurdy. I'm a retired OBGYN physician. I currently serve as the Health Committee Chair for our local branch of the NAACP. I came to this Greater Lansing area in 1990 to train at one of the local hospitals where I work with a wonderful group of nurses. And when I came back after spending time in the Air Force and Both my wife and I, traveling around the country, came back to this community. And, you know, I recall that when I first came here in the 1990s and for the five years that I was here, this community seemed to be very concerned about having justice for the oppressed and protecting people who couldn't be protected. And I have, since I've returned here in 2015, I've lived in East Lansing, then Holt, now I'm a member of the DeWitt community. And I keep hearing these instances of abuse of citizens and I don't understand why I tried to ignore it, thought, well, this can't be right. But this community who espoused that we need to protect those who can't be protected, who can't speak up for themselves, continued to allow this to happen. And I don't understand, and I can't, I just... At this point, I have to think that it is actually ingrained in the system. And I don't have an answer for it, but it pains me to listen to my colleagues talk to you about this and your community members asking for help and tell you that they're afraid, that they don't understand why they should be afraid, and yet they still are. And so the reason I wanted to come up here tonight is that When I returned to this community and joined the NAACP, I was reunited with one of my trainer nurses from Lansing General Hospital, who is now serving this community as a revered certified nurse midwife. And we were talking earlier this year, as we were putting together a health fair for this community, that she's afraid to go out and drive at night. She has been stopped when she's on the way to the hospital to take care of her patients. And I think you all need to recognize that it's not just the youth that are being impacted here, it's all the other citizens, as you have heard. People trying to go to do their job, just trying to get to university, trying to go through this community just to get to work. And the fact that they're afraid to do that, to me, just seems a travesty. And so I just wanted to bring you that perspective. Thank you.

Thank you. Lee June.

My name is Lee June and I'm an East Lansing resident. I've lived in the community for 52 years actually. I was just thinking the first three I was in East Lansing. I moved to Lansing for 26 years and now my wife and I have been back here for 23. So we've been in East Lansing 26 years and in Lansing 26 years. I'm here tonight because I'm just actually puzzled. Just deeply puzzled. On the one hand, you know, based on my experience and educational background, I kind of understand what's going on. But on another level, I'm just really puzzled. I just can't understand what it's going to take for justice to be delivered. And I'm for non-violence, direct action. Some of my colleagues are for different things. So there was Malcolm, there was Martin, there was Harriet Tubman. But actually, it took all of them to bring about change. I'm just puzzled and wondering what it's going to take for justice to be done. Over the years, there have been many people who use this concept, but there's a legal term. Maximum is called justice delayed is justice denied. Justice delayed is justice denied. And we could go deeper than AI, but just a surface definition. It says a legal maximum, meaning that if a legal remedy or relief is provided too late, it loses meaning and value, effectively acting as no justice at all. Let me repeat that. If a remedy or relief is provided too late, It loses its meaning and value, effectively acting as if no justice occurred at all. I've talked to two of you privately or semi-privately. Congresswoman Singh, we appreciate what you're doing. I've spoken to you by phone. once and I appreciate some of the things you're doing. And I'm gonna seek to hopefully speak to the remaining three of you because as a psychologist, I'm just trying to figure out, you know, what's going on. I'm puzzled, I'm not gonna lambast you, but I would like to hear from you directly what's taking so long. And so I hope that Tonight, you've gotten all kinds of evidence. Mayor Altman, as a professor, you know this. We generally make decisions based on evidence, and there are various kinds of evidence. You have anecdotal evidence, and a lot of people have given that. Then we even had a professor tonight presenting on evidence-based interventions. and what causes things and if you listen carefully to her she was basically saying there's a systemic problem and that if you analyze what's going on it will bring you to certain kinds of conclusion so i would hope that it won't take too much long you know dr king once said that and i hope it doesn't escalate to this ever level he said that riots or the voices of the unheard. And when people are not heard psychologically over a period of time, they go to other kinds of actions. And I'm hoping none of that happens. So I'm just puzzled and will leave the podium by asking and hoping you think on the maxim that justice delayed is justice denied. And let's move before that really becomes true. And I will talk to the three remaining folks, at least try to, and hopefully I can understand and be less puzzled.

Thank you, Simone.

Good evening.

Good evening. Can you hear me? Okay. My name is Simon Peraza. I sit on the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Commission. I am here as a private citizen today. We all are, many of us are here because we watched a 20 year old girl being tased, restrained, and struck multiple times by our taxpayer funded peace officers, several of them. This young woman was hospitalized, released, never charged. Apparently there's an officer on paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation. What we saw or what we all see here is the arrest or the assault on August 2nd. The viral video of the tasing and repeated strikes on a restrained young woman, screaming in terror. What you see is the public outrage, the NAACP statement. What we get is an ELPD internal investigation. I wanna talk about some of the things that are beneath the surface here. We have had an increase in police violence steadily every year going back to 2016. I'm gonna read these years out loud because I don't think this really hits home for folks and they think we're just here for what happened last week every time we show up. In 2016, US law enforcement officers murdered 963 human beings. In 2017, they murdered 981 human beings. In 2018, they killed 983 human beings. 2019, They killed 999 human beings. In 2020, our tax-funded peace officers killed 1,020 human beings. But the unrest from George Floyd's murder didn't deter this trend. The commissions, as quick as they rose and fell, did not deter these numbers of this trend. The body worn cameras that we all paid for and now have to fight tooth and nail to try to see what's on them did not deter this trend. In 2021, our peace officers killed 1,048 human beings. In 2022, they killed 1,097 human beings. In 2023, they killed 1,164 human beings. And in 2024, they killed 1,173 human beings. We don't have apples to apples numbers after that, because this was taken from Washington Post's Fatal Force Database, which along with a lot of other federal police accountability tools has gone by the wayside. We've got In May of last year, as an example of these accountability tools being dismantled on a larger scale than just this city is choosing to do, in May of last year, we had the Department of Justice move to dismiss consent decrees in Minneapolis and Louisville. These are federal police oversight programs. They ended the pattern or practice probes into six more departments in Phoenix, Trenton, Memphis, Mount Vernon, Oklahoma City, and Louisiana State Police. And last year, the National Law Enforcement Accountability Database, which was tracking misconduct by federal officers, was shut down entirely. Federal oversight was supposed to be our main check on local police conduct. It's completely disappeared. Now let's talk about our local economy. We're cash strapped. We need to find some new business. Because filling kids full of alcohol until they can't fit any more alcohol into them and then tossing them on the street, 20-year-olds who shouldn't be drinking anyway, and then having our tax-paid peace officers come to clean it up. And just by coincidence, the black kids keep getting their heads busted. But for no 20-year-old, is this a good safety practice? I don't know what we used to do when we used to look at liquor licenses and violations, but when we did look, we found a lot of violations.

Thank you for your comments. Your time has expired.

And we're coming for the Gangnam County prosecutor, too. These gang enhancements aren't going to happen.

Next speaker is Kiana Elkins.

Good afternoon. My name is Kiana Elkins. I am a resident of Lansing, and I was a student at MSU about 10 years ago. I am here, like many of the other folks here, to talk about the incident with Mayanna. When I watched that video, all I could see was my sister pinned down by four police officers beating her and squealing, I would say. It sounded like a pig being hogtied. That is not a sound that people should be making. And I want to stress that because I do believe that racism enforces the belief that black people are not humans. We do not just make that sound. That young woman was terrified. She was in pain. She was scared. And there were many people around her watching this incident also scared for her. That could have resulted in her death. if any of the people watching attempted to intervene to help her, that could have resulted in their death. There have been a lot of requests here this evening for the resignation or firing of Jen Brown, as well as the police officers who engaged in excessive force. And while I maintain that, I also want to add that I will be praying to my God that every person involved in that incident that instilled the fear in Mayanna, that you all go to bed every night hearing her screaming, I hope that you never see another day of happiness. You do not deserve it. That behavior is disgusting. It is inhuman. It is sinful. You all should be ashamed. If after this and the continued, I assume, police violence that will continue happening, continues to happen, you all will be in hell. This is simply not okay behavior. Mr. Gridsby, as the only black person up here, I think that you have particular need for accountability and making sure that this never happens again. Our black ancestors do not condone of coonery. And so I think that if you want to exist in this world as someone with pride, then you must advocate 10 toes down. I don't care if any of these other people are against it, advocate 10 toes down. Mayanna should not have experienced what she experienced. I should not be walking around the city of East Lansing or any other place terrified for my own safety. No child should be. We are people. We are humans. Mayanna was out having a good evening, and it ended in a terrible, terrible violence. I think that if any of your children experienced what she did, that you would be just as angry as the rest of us, as you should be. And I want you to keep that in mind, that as you are sitting here as people holding positions of power, okay you have power you have responsibility and you should be accountable to the people in your community even the black ones okay we deserve to live we deserve to live long happy peaceful lives none of us should be out having a good fucking night and then being beat down face into the cement being held down by five police officers That type of force is indicative of police officers who are not trained properly. If you are afraid of one 20-year-old girl who is drunk, then you're not trained properly. You should not be in that job. There are drunk teens, young adults, here in East Lansing all the time, every year. When I was a student, folks would excitedly talk about the sort of rioting that would happen after football games. This behavior is something that we are used to and they do not experience the level of violence that Myonna did or the other black young people in this city. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing this to continue to happen.

Thank you, Kath Edsel.

It's heartbreaking when black people have to come up in front of this community, in front of this city manager, in front of this attorney, and beg to be treated with humanity. It's fucking heartbreaking. Once again, we have been told not to believe what we have seen with our own eyes. Once again, we have been told we do not have all the facts. So once again, we know it is way worse than what we have seen. because what I have seen again and again is enforcement power without structural limits. Where discretion should be guided by humanity, it is guided by might and military brutality. What I have seen is a belief that black and brown communities are a threat not human beings deserving compassion, protection, and safety, oft times from the people who are supposed to protect them. What I have seen is constitutional rights that are simply obstacles to circumvent. Last night I described the pain that watching Mayanna's brutal arrest caused me and countless others. I simply cannot understand how anyone could watch that and think it's okay. now we have a police chief saying her hands are tied by laws contracts and policies such that she is powerless to stop this behavior while she put one officer on administrative leave after watching the video i must wonder why the duty to intervene did not lead to every officer on the scene being put on administrative leave or is that duty only in policy because it is required for accreditation but there is once again no plan to actually follow policy We know policy is only a suggestion to this chief. She has violated policy in the past without repercussion. She has made racist remarks without repercussion. She has the support of the previous city manager and clearly has the adoration of this one. who apparently supports the brutalization of black people as evidenced by her inaction. She has the support of the city attorney because they can run up their fees keeping her from being deposed for all the lawsuits against the city under her leadership. They are using the city's bank account to outspend and outlast defendants. It's past time to prove that she does not have the support of this council. Say something, say anything, because when you hide behind process, the process becomes the punishment. Processes were created to come to the outcome those in power sought to begin with. I have quoted Audre Lorde before, the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. We know there is no plan to change policy. The Chief said so herself at a recent ELIPOC meeting. She said, We give her suggestions, but that does not mean she will use them. At the same time, she defended the recently proposed use of force policy, which lists multiple acts of aggression as de-escalation, and removes the statement about the importance of sanctity of life. The reason for the latter? The officers will be confused. I have yet to watch a body cam video where officers appeared confused about whose life they felt was more important. In fact, all too often, it's apparent by their actions and their Blue Lives Matter wristbands that only their lives matter. Two things can be true at the same time. This department is racist and has been since its inception. And this chief is not the person that can repair that. If this interim city manager will not take action to protect black and brown community members, it's time for her to go. It's time to accelerate the hiring process for a new manager. It's time for every council member to listen to the entire community about who that should be. Every one of us lives in our silo of our own creation. It's past time for this council to listen to more of us than those just in your silos. It's past time for this council I'm sorry, speaking on your behalf, oh, your attorney speaking on your behalf called us a small group of self-styled activists who are viciously anti-law enforcement because we seek racial justice and compassion and because we believe that black lives matter. And we want policing that is about public safety and not discretionarily and prose biased law enforcement. If all of you can do is look at these incidents and say, well, they followed current policy and wipe your hands, you are the problem. and not part of the solution. My honest arrest was horrifying. If this council believes there is more to the story, show us. Release the tape. Stop saying you believe in transparency and then hiding the facts. But at the end of the day, it's so much more than that. At what point do we work to build a department that values everyone's safety, that believes all our lives are sanctified, that believes that force is an absolute last choice, and generally wants to understand what de-escalation means and not what they want it to. You have 30 seconds remaining. Because right now, we are the polar opposite of that. And that lays on Jen Brown's head. She needs to go. She needs to go. He needs to go. Thank you.

Thank you. Carla Forrest Hewitt.

Good afternoon. Mayor, I would appreciate it if you waited a few seconds before saying names. It's an accessibility issue we cannot hear. And I guess in the effort for time you want to rush things along, but waiting a few seconds would help us all. Please and thank you. I have come before you several times and I am, disheartened by the fact that we're still here and this still keeps happening and I don't know what words can convey to you the harm and the hurt and the despair we feel and the anger and grief has all different ways of showing itself and the fact that you can sit here unmoved, untouched, unwilling to do something that is visible and clear to us is is maddening it's heartbreaking it shows us that you don't care and it gives us a feeling of distrust right my job is to instill values and raise critical consciousness and build vibrant communities among young people. And when I am at work and I hear a young man come to MSU and explain how excited he is and this is his school of choice and this is happening here in our city and nothing, no recourse has happened over the many months, many weeks, days. In this moment, let's be to the last moment, that this can happen in our city. We are a small city. We have influence. We can make changes. You have the ability to create a now that's different from the past that we have been experiencing. Let this not repeat. And to that, I'm going to read you something I wrote. And it's, why am I not human to you? Why am I not human to you? If you are not incensed by Myanna, by Lani, by Mason, by Isaiah, by the many lives irreparably changed, if you are not enraged, you are tolerant of crimes against my melanin, the melanin in my skin, my mind, my body. You are hostile against my kin. If you are not angry, you are indifferent. to the harm, the breaking of my bone, the carving, the braiding of my skin, of openings for rivers of blood that flow from my vein. If you do not anger at the way a man kneels in my back while I cannot breathe, you are complicit in the attempt to extinguish my life. Clinging to this idea of safety and security is a pretense. How can you aspire to be a member of humankind? Your seditious offers of a promise of a good time in East Lansing is a trick, because if I make a mistake, by your definition, which is influenced by your mood and your unwarranted fear of me. The risk of harm to me becomes a surety. If I hold within my body a modicum of power, a badge of influence, I am afforded another day. If you know my name and that my family will fight tooth and nail for my undeniable human rights, then you leave me be. Otherwise, you throw me out on the street to be manhandled, molested by men carrying a badge. When I scream, help me. and this is racist. You punch me when my body is crushed against the pavement to which your policy has brought me, and this sad interpretation of policy justifies the removal of my humanity. You pepper spray me in the eyes while I commune with a friend to defer conflict. You offer no care, no support, but fracture, emotionally distress me. You terrorize me. It is clear you don't know the history of your ancestors or you have conveniently forgot. or choose to be ignorant. You are living true to your history of violence, disenfranchisement, murder, rape, intimidation, cancellation, eviction, erasure, and you hide behind the law of your ancestors created. You should know what led us here because you are being used by your ignorance of history. My question again is why? Why am I not human to you? And I have 30 seconds.

You have 30 seconds remaining.

And with that, I want to leave you with a quote from Bell Hooks. Because I do not think we are hopeless. I think there is promise. And if we are able to disassemble this system of domination and choose a love ethic, we can be better. We have to be better. This cannot happen again. We are a small community. We are connected. We can build something better.

Thank you. Thank you. Khadija Erickson.

Good evening, y'all. Back again to talk to you, this time not about housing for once. I'm personally confused. I work almost 50% of my time with the unhoused. and they are universally hated, really despised, so much so that even here in East Lansing, a camping ban was proposed, a truly violent act. And thinking back over those several months where we were going back and forth, we were meeting, there was opportunity for us to come to a compromise both sides could accept. We reached a conclusion that was better than where we started. And that did take several months, but we're like a year into this conversation surrounding Chief Jen Brown, surrounding interactions with ELPD, with our minority community members, and we don't seem to be any further along towards a solution and a compromise that both sides can accept. And again, it's just so bizarre to me because of how much hatred there is for the poor and the homeless. And so I was prepared for us to still be here talking about the camping ban. Yet what continues to dominate each city council session, even through the camping ban, even through the rental overlay conversation, Even through everything else that's come up here, even the Deer Pathways, Chief Jen Brown comes up. The way East Lansing Police Department is interacting with community members comes up. And I have, in my personal opinion, had the pleasure to interact with most of you, mainly through housing. And in those conversations, I found, and the people I was able to meet with were Council Member Singh Chuck and, or Mayor Potem Chuck, excuse me, Mayor, sorry, sorry. Okay. Anyways, thank you, sorry. And you, Meadows, we talked. We had great conversations that were really, to me, felt constructive, like there was a path forward for us to do something that supported our unhoused community, right? And again, I am just struck by whatever is a barrier in this conversation. I know several of the people that are trying to communicate with you, and I know them, again, it's my personal opinion, but I know them to be honest people who want to be a part of the solution. And so I'm just so struck by the difficulty of this conversation. I know that it's heated. I know that it comes with racial tensions and things of that nature. But from my perspective, the way that the hatred for the poor impacts unhoused people feels the same to me the way that racism impacts minority people and how they engage with life.

And I just, again, I'm not understanding the reticence to move forward in the conversation.

I know I have a lot of experience with very, very difficult conversations around things that are impacting the community, things that will cost us big dollars to try and solve at the local level, at the state level, and even at the national level. And so, again, I just... I have been unwell for a few weeks, so I'm not giving my best comment. But what I would like to use the last bit of my time to do is exactly what I did with the camping ban, which is I would love to have a meeting with you guys. I would love to reach out to my resources and contacts to assist with the facilitated dialogue, if that's what we need to have, so that there's more conversation, more exchange of ideas between each group. I will go out and hand out flyers to make sure people come. Like I have a lot of experience in drive, you guys have experienced me bringing people to city council. I can bring a whole crowd. And so I would love to lend whatever extra time I have to helping move this conversation forward. It's a conversation I've largely been absent from because housing is a new horror every day. And so, but this impacts me too. I have to do street outreach. A lot of my best work for street outreach happens at night. I find them at their camps, they're relatively chill, trying to turn down, and so it's an opportunity for me to have a genuine interaction with them that's non-threatening. But I have to think about what that actually means when I come to East Lansing at night, right? I have to interact with LPD sometimes at night in Lansing, but I'm a known entity there. You have 30 seconds remaining. They've known me for a while and so they're aware of me and the tension of the interaction still there for sure, but much less. The problems that continue to go unaddressed with East Lansing Police Department makes me genuinely scared to do a core function of my job in East Lansing when I'm most likely to interact with the folks you're trying to ban from here. So please, I'll reach out to you guys because I am serious. I would like for us to move forward on this. Thank you.

Thank you. Janelle Hall.

Hello. Good evening. My name is Janelle Hall and I'm coming to you from Waverly. I'm running for Waverly School Board. Hello to the fellow Waverly residents and teachers doing the good work. I'm incredibly excited and a little bit nervous to be here. I just came to listen and to absorb information because we've all spoken about how we've seen the video. But if I weren't a teacher, because I am a teacher, let me give you a little history lesson, just a bit. And for my history buffs in the room, not too much, okay? These are estimates, all right? Let me preface this by saying I do not know very much about the chief of police, Ms. Jen Brown. But I have definitely formed an opinion based on the commentary and the opinions in this room, and also by what I see in the community. So that got me to thinking, it reminded me of several books that I've read. One of them I listened to on my 26-hour drive from Texas. They were her property. And let me share a little bit of this, okay, because I'm old, I can't see. Around the 1700s, 1790s, in the United States, of course, we were still under chattel slavery, and the United States on these plantations had a bit of a problem. Their little itty-bitty problem was that they kept losing property, and by property I mean black children. And by black children, they were being killed by the hands of their mistress. The women or the female ladies of the house, plantation owners, were beating these black children to the point where they were dying. right? And so other people were like, Oh my gosh, you know, we're losing property here. So you can't very well lock up Sweet Miss Anne. And that is where the the impetus or the beginning of the don't resist came about. Now, instead of Instead of making the white female mistress of the house pay for her murders, rather, of these little black and brown children that just ironically had her husband's face, wouldn't you know? They developed what we would now understand to be don't resist arrest, okay? So in the 1940s, again, decade estimates, don't come from me, okay? In the 1940s, that was made into law. We best know that to be the execution of, you know, Jim Crow laws, and it matriculated and evolved into what many people in this room have spoken about, you know, George Floyd, don't resist. That's what we have now come to know, don't resist arrest. When Ms. Maiana was at Harper's, I'm not sure what she did or if it was egregious enough to be treated the way that she was. But I encourage you and implore you. We've heard from several educators in the room, people who are invested in not only both the education but the faith community. I have a 16-year-old son. He is my favorite person and my brokest best friend, and he spends a lot of time on Michigan State's campus in East Lansing. I have had the driving while black conversation with him. I am afraid for him to travel for any of his musical endeavors on campus because I don't trust you. This is an educational community. Michigan State is the bedrock of East Lansing. you have a performing arts center named after two African-American graduates, Clifton and Olivia Wharton. But yet, their progeny, their great-grandchildren, people from their lineage, might be beat in the street on the steps of parkers. You have 30 seconds remaining. Thank you, ma'am. Just as Maiana was. i'm not pressing for the firing of your police chief but for those who are familiar with biblical principles of oil flowing from the head you have a very strong systemic break of protecting property the steps of harpers instead of people and we the parents and community members of east lansing and the greater lansing area we're trusting you with our children that's all we have thank you for your comments

Those are all the slips that I have. Is there anybody else in the room who would like to address the council please approach the podium state your name and address please.

Hi, my name is Chloe Vandermeer. I'm a sophomore at East Lansing High School and I'm a resident of East Lansing. I wanted to come up and give a point of view from teenagers and the teenage community. I think being a teenager and watching that video of the incident that happened at Harper's, it's just disgusting and terrifying because the East Lansing Police Department is a representation of the people who are supposed to keep us safe. In that video, that did not look like they were keeping anybody safe. I think from my perspective, when I watched that video, I said, wow, imagine if that was me, imagine if that was my mom, my sisters, my friends, how would that make me feel? That would make me want justice, that would make me want change, and that would make me want some type of comment from the police themselves that did this to Ms. Collins. We deserve to have full releasage of the body camera footage. And I also believe that accountability should be taken from everybody that played a part in it. It raises the question to me, it makes me wonder why didn't any one of those officers stop what was happening? Why wasn't there a different way of de-escalation? Why did it have to become physical? And why did it take more than one officer to remove an intoxicated 20-year-old woman from Harper's. It's unethical and I'm not sure in what any world would that be okay to do that to a 20-year-old woman. And being a woman myself, that makes me scared because that's not how I think anything should operate in our community. I FEEL LIKE THAT GIVES A BAD REPRESENTATION OF US AND OUR COMMUNITY AND I THINK ACTIONS NEED TO BE TAKEN AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN. SOME RESPONSE TO THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BE GIVEN, APOLOGIES, STATEMENTS, SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR OUR COMMUNITY. I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF TEENAGERS FEAR AS WE GROW UP AND GO INTO OUR COLLEGE, EVEN GO TO MSU, WE FEAR THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO US AND WE DO NOT WANT ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO HAPPEN TO US. AFTER HEARING THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT THEY THINK, I THINK EVERYBODY HAS HELPFULLY HAD THEIR VOICE HEARD. I HOPE MY VOICE AND OTHER TEENAGERS' VOICE REPRESENTING YOUNGER PEOPLE CAN help give that voice too so i would ask for justice to be served and a response to the community for everything that has been wrongly done to miss collins and just our community thanks thank you is there anyone else who would like to address the council during public comment okay going once yep please state your name and your address

My name is Tashmika Torok and I have to state my address?

Your location generally.

Okay. I'm in Lansing. I'm not telling you my address. Okay. Please help me. They're being racist. How many people before Mayanna stood at this podium to say the very same thing? How many people in my honest position have asked for the same help from the city. You know the stats. You've paid a sociologist and his report says that you have a problem with racial disparities in policing. You know the stories too. I've been here as people have read them to you. You have the articles. Maybe not everyone in this room is aware but you are. We've held and attended meetings. We've been to several of the sources. For many of us, this isn't the first, second, third, or even tenth visit to a meeting regarding this issue. The reception has not been warm. It has not been solution-oriented. It's been dismissive. It's been silence, lies, and a lack of transparency. And the outcome has been more violence against black people specifically and decreased avenues for accountability for everyone. Please help me. They're being racist. and you have spent millions on communications, coaching, PR, and legal representation. Regardless of your intentions, no one should ignore that not a single one of those dollars, and in many cases, not even a single phone call, has been used in service of healing, restoration, or justice for the people hurt by police violence in East Lansing. Please help me. They're being racist. The powers of the HRC and LEPOC must be returned and expanded. Imagine being Mayanna's mother or loved ones and discovering that right before she was assaulted and left exposed on the street, the East Lansing City Council voted to effectively take away their power. Ellie Park spent a year gathering expert consultation and provided a use of force policy that has yet to be implemented. Jen Brown needs to be resigned or she needs to resign or she needs to be fired. She promotes the escalation of violence as de-escalation. She has lied to the media. She has hidden evidence and attempted to criminalize two black young men to protect her own reputation. She then scapegoated minorities as the problem of disparities that has been a problem for many, many years. Jen Brown didn't cause the problem of racism, but she is doing a fine job escalating every one of those problems. And now the recommendation from her department is to remove the language about protecting the sanctity of life from the use of force policy. She is telling you, through word and through deed, that she has no intention of implementing what would be considered evidence-based best practices. Please help. They're being fucking racist. And the idea that she'd be qualified to transition her department to anything trauma-informed is laughable. How many people need to be harmed while you enable her to continue her learning curve on the backs of people like Myanna Collins? Either she is underqualified or she's enthusiastic about maintaining anti-black violence through policy and procedure, and you are helping her. Please help. They're being racist. I also want to let everyone here know that many of us will be leaving immediately after public comment and maybe the council members' comments, depending on what they say. We do not have much faith in your response because we've been here before. But we all hope, we all say, please help. They're being racist. We keep showing up because we don't know what you need to hear. what will move you, but we continue to extend all of branches hope. We continue to send emails, we continue to lobby the community to get them here, and I hope with all of your powers you start finding ways to help instead of finding creative ways to protect the city from the well-earned risk of liability. Right after we hear from you, we'll be leaving. We'll be organizing to keep our community safe until you find the courage, motivation, or humanity to do so. We will make sure that everyone here gets every receipt, every article, every campaign promise, and every piece of evidence available so that no one will be tricked by personal relationship, professional courtesy, or loyalty to white supremacy while your police department violates their own use of force policy and hurts people time and time again.

please help they're being racist until then we'll be right here thank you is there anyone else who would like to address the council is there anyone else who would like to address okay all right uh going once going twice okay are there any callers

There are two callers on the line. Caller with the phone number ending in 225, you are now free to address the council. Caller with the phone number ending in 225, you are now free to address the council. Caller with the phone number ending in 902, you are now free to address the council.

Hello? Yes. Hello. My name is Dana Watson. My pronouns are she, hers. I'm not there in person. I am a black person. I'm a mother. I've lived in the city of East Lansing for a very long time and chose to raise my children here in the city of East Lansing. My oldest is 20 years old and she's a girl and she attends Michigan State. I am MSU alumni. I don't know if I should beg you all, which is my sadness and desperation. I don't know if I should come in and slap some people, and that is my anger. I don't know if I should just smile and demand the police who are causing problems in my town to simply leave, and that is my joy. Leave the town. Or, and this isn't a feeling, do I bet on the cops and when they will harm again. As an MSU alumni and someone that's lived here and I survived East Lansing police, even though they've given me problems and they gave me problems because I am African-American. I am asking that we have a good semester for the students. When you send out your messages, welcome the students back. And don't welcome them back with a police message. Welcome them back into our community because we need them here for various reasons, including the energy that they bring to this town that I'm proud to be a part of. Don't give them a miserable semester. Don't harass the students because they've been drinking too much or because someone has a problem with them because they're partying while black or hanging out while black. My challenge is can the police stop using excessive force on our black and Brown youth this entire semester? How about meeting that goal and do our community proud so we can have similar reputations as other big 10 communities, because I'm not reading about big 10 communities over policing their students. So we have a problem. And if you have a problem with black people, step aside. And I'm asking the chief to do better or leave. I'm asking the police leave. If you don't want to be here and if you don't want to treat everybody similarly, then just leave the town. And I'm challenging this community to have a good semester. Let's welcome the students back like normal people, like normal police. And let's not ruin people's days and lives and continue the trauma that is caused through police interactions with black and brown people. So I'm just going to repeat myself one more time. My challenge is figure out how we can have a truly deescalated semester and let's welcome the students back with open arms, or peacefully and with de-escalation. And let's not land here again this semester. Let's give it a break. Let's try something new. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any additional callers? No additional callers. That brings us to the end of communications from the audience. Next item on the agenda is communications from council. Council Member Singh.

Thank you. I know it was referenced during public comment this evening. I did issue a statement on August 6. And I wanted to reference, since May, I have been working with the police chief, city attorneys, members of the community, speaking with council colleagues on updating a set of policy updates as well as training, and hopefully a long-term training program. With that said, and especially recognizing the most recent event, and I actually have to give Mr. Meadows credit for this idea, this may be instead of something administratively that the chief is able to do that we need to take this on as a council their resolution or ordinance for that new set of policies so I hope you know I would love to hear from other members if that's something they would welcome hopefully in the month of September so that's my report this evening thank you Mayor Pro Tem Grigsby

Yes to that question in regards to the willingness to work on that and have that as a priority going forward in the very near future. I want to thank the audience members for coming in and spending their time to advocate for what justice is and I want to send my condoles our heartfelt emotions for Ms. Collin and our mother who showed up here tonight as well. I have a pre-prepared statement. I usually don't do that. I usually just speak from what compels me, but I think it's important for me to do this structurally so I don't leave out or misrepresent something here. I will tell you that I am very, very frustrated in regards to where we're at right now and the lack of progress of where we need to be. I'M SOMEONE THAT TAKES A LOT OF PRIDE IN WORKING ON BEHALF OF JUSTICE AND THIS ROLE IN THE PROCESS AND THE POLICIES AND THE THINGS I HAVE TO ADHERE TO MAKE IT VERY MUCH MORE CHALLENGING TO DO THEM IN WAYS THAT I'M ACCUSTOMED TO. I know what I saw in the video and I know what concerns me about the way the situation was handled. There may be other facts that matter to the prosecutor or to a formal investigation, but I do not believe I need to have every fact to speak about the conduct that is visible to me right now. The hard part has been saying this in a responsible manner, knowing the position that I hold, and being careful not to turn my assessment into charging or disciplinary decisions that are not mine to make. The prosecutor has to make a charging decision. I don't know if that's been made or not or not. But however, whether Ms. Collins is eventually charged is not the question that matters to me. A charging decision addresses whether there is sufficient evidence that she violated the law. It does not necessarily answer to the broader questions raised by the police response shown in that video. whether the charges are filed or whether the response shown in that video raises broader questions about force, training, and policy are separate matters. The prosecutor will address these questions in their own manner. Now let me get to it. I spent more than 10 years as a professional fighter. So I understand leverage. I understand body positioning. And I know what it means when someone can no longer use their hands, especially when they're handcuffed. Watching Ms. Collins laying on the ground on her stomach with her hands cuffed behind her back leads me to a basic question. What level of public safety threat did she present at that point? From my experience, once someone is restrained in that position, there should be immediate reassessment of the tactics being used and whether continued force is necessary. What concerns me is not simply how control was initially gained, but the decisions made and the length of time those tactics continued after she was handcuffed and physically vulnerable. At that point, the question should no longer be, do we have control? It should also be what threat remains and is she okay? The video raises a serious concern for me about whether the response changed as the level of threat changed because I struggle to see where the reassessment occurred with what is shown and what I have. Police officers receive training and tools so they can protect themselves and the public, but training does not create an automatic requirement or automatic opportunity to use every tactic that may be permitted by policy. The fact that a tactic is authorized does not end the discussions. Officers must still consider the seriousness of the threat, the level of resistance, the objective they are trying to accomplish, the alternatives available, and whether the situation has changed. Once control has been achieved, the focus should be moved toward maintaining safety, preventing injury, monitoring the person's condition, and bringing the encounter to a stable conclusion. Going forward, I'm not really interested in another review that ends in the conduct was particularly allowed. I'm not really interested in that the training and use of force or the type of force was something that is permitted. We need to be aggressively honest about what police permits and every permitted tactic should remain available under what circumstances those tactics should be used. IF OUR POLICIES DO NOT CLEARLY REQUIRE OFFICERS TO REASSESS THE THREAT, REDUCE FORCE AFTER CONTROL IS ACHIEVED, AND MONITOR THE PERSON'S PHYSICAL CONDITION, THEN THOSE POLICIES NEED TO BE CHANGED AS TO WHAT COUNCILMEMBER SINGH WAS LEADING TO. OUR TRAINING, SUPERVISION, AND AFTER ACTION REVIEWS MUST BE REINFORCED WITH THOSE EXPECTATIONS. I'm not trying to conduct a formal investigation myself or decide whether criminal charges are discipline and all that is appropriate. Those are the decisions require the complete record and belong to the people responsible for making them. But I'm willing to assess the conduct shown in that video. The possibility that additional evidence does not exist requires me to ignore the minimize what is already visible. We can ask whether communication was effective, whether de-escalator opportunities existed, or whether the force remained proportionate as the encounter developed, whether medical assistance was considered, and what should be handled differently in the future. That is where I'm at. I'm also formally requesting the city manager, in consultation with the city attorney, to begin the process of identifying and preserving all city control video in this incident. That should include determining what may be lawful, what may be released, what redactions may be required, whether any footage can be released before the prosecutor resists this decision, and when the remaining footage can be reconsidered for release. The city should not wait till every legal question resolved before beginning that work. So the legal review, the collection, and the preparation of all recordings should be happening now so the releasable footage can be provided promptly when permitted. If some footage can be lawfully released sooner than other, I'm supporting releasing that as well on a rolling basis rather than unnecessarily holding back of everything. I'm also requesting a clear public timeline for that process. If particular footage cannot currently be released, the city should explain the general legal reason for withholding it to the extent legally possible, identify when that decision will be reviewed again. Transparency does not require the city to violate the law or compromise anyone's rights, but it does require more than saying that the information may be released at some unknown time in the future. That is where I think and believe my responsibility as a policymaker begins. I can't change what happened personally and decide any kind of outcomes today, but I can work to ensure that we learn from it, the public is given the fullest lawful view of what occurred, and that our training emphasizes judgment rather than merely technical authorization. Effective policing is not measured by only whether a tactic was allowed. It also was measured by whether the response was necessary, controlled, proportionate and consistent with the public safety values of our community. That's my prepared statement. And when I first came into office, I sat down with staff and I, HAD HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR THE CITY OF EAST LANSING. AND I STILL HAVE THOSE EXPECTATIONS AND STILL WANT TO BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION. I HEARD MANY ELOQUENT THINGS FROM PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT WAS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS, I BELIEVE IT WAS DR. JUNE, HE ASKED, WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE FOR JUSTICE? Well, if you're asking me, then it's going to take room for healing, an opportunity for work, an opportunity for collaboration.

And the... Public comment. public comment is closed thank you you're out of order it is now our turn to speak please continue i guess that's probably one of the examples there hanging on every word

in a way that doesn't get us to where we want to be is something that we need to get past. I had an individual approach me before the meeting tonight, part of a community group that is very passionate about constructive long-term policy outcomes and is willing to put energy into that. And I am welcoming that group to work with me and others if they choose to in regards to that outcome. THIS TOPIC, THIS ISSUE IS VERY DEAR TO ME. I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. I'M SEEKING MY DOCTORATE IN THIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE REALM AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO IN LONG TERM PROBLEMATIC HARM AND INJUSTICE THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITIES. SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT OPPORTUNITY AND I LOOK FORWARD TO MORE CONVERSATIONS AND RESULTS WITH THE COLLABORATION OF MY FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF AND THE COMMUNITY. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. MR. MEADOWS.

It's not that fucking harm.

I'LL MAKE MY COMMENTS PRETTY QUICKLY. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF BULLET POINTS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT. GOING BACK TO COUNCIL MEMBER SINGH'S OPENING COMMENT, I STRONGLY FEEL THAT WITH REGARD TO THE USE OF FORCE POLICY, DEESCALATION POLICY AND OTHER POLICIES THAT APPLY WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, We have not in the past taken an active role in evaluating those and enforcing those and creating those. And we have to begin to do that. These comments are made to us. Nobody goes to the police department and starts to talk about the things that have happened. we have a responsibility to respond to them and to examine them and where they're appropriate to support them and where they're inappropriate we have to change them You know, the idea of sanctity of life as being part of a policy, to me, should be part of every single policy that we establish. This is about what someone commented here. Are we protecting property and not people? Our objective is to protect people. And our police department's objective has to be to protect people. And where we fail on that, as someone said, we need to take responsibility. And it is important that we do so. Dr. June talked about justice delayed is justice denied. If people in the community are frustrated by the length of time that it has taken for some of these issues to be evaluated and resolved, you can't imagine how frustrating it is for us as well. mean we just learned the other day that we got another 180 days of discovery in the lawsuit that relates to the welcome week event so another half a year before we have a resolution of that that was a due process that was chosen by the plaintiffs it's the ultimate due process and federal district court but it is frustratingly long for us to deal with it. Somebody brought up alternative downtown approaches and I really feel that that was a great suggestion for us to take a look at. So as we go through this, we try to deal with the issues that we have within the community regarding these. these racial events that have taken place here, then we need to look at the way that we govern in the downtown and the way that we police in the downtown and determine what a possibly more appropriate way for us to approach that is going to be. Chuck has mentioned sort of a game plan for release of the videos. Really, I look at it as we need to release those videos completely, every video of the incident that is in our possession as soon as we possibly can. Back when we had the interaction at the Meijer store and the shooting there, those videos were released within a few days, all of the videos. So the entire community had the ability to evaluate and determine how they viewed exactly what happened during that day. That's the same evidence that we all relate to and utilize in making decisions. That needs to be done here as well. And so somebody said that I hope and trust that we can do better, and that is my viewpoint as well. I hope and trust that we can do better. Probably 10 years ago, I was told by Rodney Whitaker. I was having a meeting with him regarding the jazz festival. He said, you know, black folks are afraid to come to East Lansing. That affected me when he told me that, and it still affects me this day. I'd hoped that we would be far further along 10 years later than apparently we are. Now, in response to my asking for a review of the legal authority of the HRC, That is not the only time I have ever asked the city attorney to look at one of our ordinances to determine whether the city council had the authority to pass on or delegate certain authority to a border commission or a department within our community. And I will continue to do that. And then there was just the last thing, because someone mentioned that we're hiding behind process and not accepting responsibility. We will accept responsibility when process is done, but you do not want a council that ignores due process. Due process is one of the cornerstones of the freedom that every one of us has, and we need to pay attention to that. That's all I've got.

Mr. Whalen.

I've got many things I'd like to share. I'm going to try to be discerning about exactly what to share. I think leading by emotion is a concern. I think we need to make sure I hear everyone's passion. I also hear many other people that didn't feel comfortable about coming tonight. Many people are very passionate right now in the City of East Lansing. And I do believe that everyone has a due process right, including those who are accused of things and also those who are involved at all. Due process is a critical right and I appreciate the city manager having due process as a primary situation. I also want to see the entire video of the incident at Harper's revealed. It's a big concern. I'd love to speak about that specific incident, but I don't think it's appropriate for me to speak about that incident while the investigation and the full disclosure is still happening. At that point when that comes out, I would love to talk to anyone and everyone about that incident once those videos are all revealed. I went to Touch a Truck last week. Touch a Truck, many firefighters were there, police officers were there, public works staff were there, CATA bus, H&H Mobile, many, many people were there. I brought six of my grandchildren there. And we were able to see public servants right there. My grandchildren were able to see firefighters, paramedics, police officers all doing their job. The community is asking those firefighters to go out and place themselves in harm to protect us. We're also asking all this whole city is asking police officers to go out and step in the middle of traffic at Abbott and Saginaw when there's a bad crash or when somebody is doing something inappropriate to stop that. That is a difficult thing that we ask as a community. I am looking forward to the full disclosure of all the details of all these different incidents. We are at a difficult time right now. I do ask for patience. I ask for decorum. Also, the five of us are sitting here because we're elected. I knocked on 3,500 doors. I talked to 850 people. I don't like having a one-side conversation at City Council. I'd love to be the one dialoguing back and forth when I'm speaking and when you're speaking. Dr. June, I'd love to talk with you. And before the next time we meet, I'd love to make sure we have that conversation in person, face to face. I know we've got a lot of business tonight, but I think that there is great days ahead. I do think we have an incredible city. All my children have chosen to stay in our community. because they're an incredible community, and they're friends alike. We do have the first day of school. It's one of the latest starts of MSU. They're moving in on the 25th and 26th of August, and it changes everything. It changes Grand River, it changes downtown. Very excited. I went to the Responsible Hospitality Commission today, and very much excited about our community coming back. And the students are our community. They're not visitors. They are community. Very excited about having them back and having them part of our community. And with that, I'm excited about them growing within our community and learning about our community and us having a wonderful fall. I do think that we have good days ahead in East Lansing. I believe this is a great place to live. It's a great place to work. I want to keep that, both those things. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, yes, Mr. Meadows.

Yeah, my earlier comments dominated by the comments that were made at the microphone. But I feel that it would be remiss of me not to mention that on Friday and Saturday of this week, we will start the Roots Festival in East Lansing. And by roots, we mean every kind of music that has that has worked its way through the American experience. And it's an opportunity for our community to share in the downtown on Albert Street, Friday night from I think five through 8 p.m. and again on Saturday night during this to be, RESURGENCE OF WHAT WAS THE FOLK FESTIVAL BUT NOW WILL BE THE ROOTS FESTIVAL WITH A BROADER PART OF MUSIC PRESENTED TO OUR COMMUNITY. SO PLEASE ATTEND. ALL OF US ATTEND TO SHOW OUR SUPPORT FOR THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO FOR A NEW FESTIVAL IN DOWNTOWN EAST LANSING.

Thank you. I want to, for my part, I want to recognize Clerk Gordon and her team for another successful election. In the books, there was unusually high turnout for a primary, but there was also a lot of other stuff going on, like two initiatory petitions that landed right in the middle of all that activity and had to be canvassed at the same time as they were processing ballots. AND THEN WE WERE HOSTING OUR NEW FRIENDS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND IT ALL WENT OFF WITHOUT A HITCH AS IT ALWAYS DOES. AND FORMER CLERK SCHUESTER ALSO WROTE IN TO RECOGNIZE THIS WORK AND HER LETTER IS IN THE COMMUNICATIONS LINK TO THE AGENDA PACKET. I WANT TO THANK CHRISTINA MARSHALL AT THE CLERK'S TABLE WHO I THINK IS This is her last meeting today, is that right? She will be headed to Texas, having graduated law school, so congratulations and best of year. best wishes for the next phase and lastly I just want to offer a reminder that we have a policy change that kicks in in September okay next month we when we switch to three minutes per speaker during public comment and public hearings and I know people put a lot of work into preparing their remarks for these meetings and I want to make sure that nobody's caught off guard Anything else from public comment? Okay. All right, city manager's report, Ms. Irwin.

Yes, thank you. Some of it's been stated already and I'm glad you all did some of the things happening in the community in the upcoming few weeks. I also want to thank all of our speakers this evening. I know it makes for a difficult and heavy meeting in evening. And then sometimes it's difficult, I think, when now when I am going to try to give that the task of explaining some of the things other things happening in the city uh... i don't want to diminish by that diminish some of the comments that we all the comments that we had heard this evening to go forward for the to for to share information for our community there are a few things i want to make note of I am going to repeat, because I do want to thank the clerk's office, but not just the clerk's office, really all of the residents, community members, the other staff, it ranges from our public works department, our IT department, many of our staff people that you see at the meetings work our elections. So it is a full press sort of an event when we have an election, and the clerks are the ones that head that up. And it is a great responsibility and one of the most important duties that a city or municipality carries out. And again, we all work for that, and it is important. It is also a job where everyone is watching you all the time and has something to share with you about what you may be doing wrong, even if you aren't doing something wrong is what we find. So thank you to the clerk in particular, but also all of the other employees and our residents who work very hard to have democracy in the city of East Lansing and our election system. Another thank you does have to go out for the Touch a Truck event. Again, this is an event that is many different departments involved. It is hosted by the library and the police department. My understanding is they roasted, cooked, roasted? I don't know what you say, you know, cooked out up to 700 hot dogs. So we did have a few folks that were there at that event. It was, I think, a very successful event. There were lots of people there from out of the city, but as well as other organizations throughout our community. We, of course, heard from the ELPD, ELFD, Public Works, the library, of course, there was United Way mobile tax preparation, van, truck, you know, so almost any service that had some kind of a cool mode of transportation was there. And I can tell you that the children had a great time. The other thing when it comes to transportation that I want to make an announcement for, which maybe isn't necessarily completely an East Lansing event, but it is an event that will come through our community that sounds like it's going to be very exciting and you'll be hearing more information about it, is CNN Railway is going to be coming through, and I believe it's Tuesday, around 3 o'clock. If you go to the train station, I was going to say depot, that might be an old word, train station, the transportation station, there will be, I've seen pictures, it is a very, very cool train engine that will be there. My understanding is that it's CNN, so it's Canadian Railway, and that they felt that it was very important to be a part of our 250 celebration in the shared history that we have with them in the way of transportation. So keep an eye out for information about that. A couple of other things. There is wet weather resiliency open house meeting Wednesday, August 12th from 3 to 7. I encourage people to come and give your input, learn. This has been a big, big topic and a heavy lift for the staff of the city. So if you are interested, please come check it out. The other thing is the East Lansing Farmers Market, of course, is every Sunday, as you all know. But this Sunday in particular is Senior Appreciation Day. So for those who attend that fall into the category of senior, then we get coupons. So who can't deny a coupon? So please share that with your neighbors who would like to benefit from that. MSU will be starting school. The city works very, very closely with Michigan State University when it comes to preparing and welcoming for the MSU students to come back to town. Some never left, and I have often given welcomes to students or their parents where I said, some never left and some will never leave. Many in this room on many occasion are living proof of that. But they will be coming back and we've been working very closely with the MSU administration. Our police departments have been working closely together. Our fire departments have been working closely together. Our communications departments between both entities have been working closely together. So we will be welcoming Spartans back to our shared community. And it makes for new and vibrancy for our community that I think we all welcome. And I will stop there and thank you for the time.

Thank you, I also wanted to mention that touch a truck involved a helicopter. It did. Which was a great big hit. Landed in the field by the high school. Thank you. City Attorney's report, Mr. Young.

I don't have anything to report at this time.

Okay, that brings us to item number three, special presentation. Chief Brown.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and Council Members. One of the most rewarding parts of being a Chief is welcoming outstanding people to our team. Every officer we hire helps shape the culture of our department and the service we provide to our community. Tonight, I'm grateful to introduce three individuals that were sworn in with the East Lansing Police Department last week. Each of them comes to us with some level of police experience, a strong commitment to public safety, and a desire to continue growing professionally. We are very grateful they have chosen to continue their careers here at the East Lansing Police Department. It is now my honor to introduce our newest officers. Demarius Washington is the first officer that I'd like to introduce. Does he look familiar? He may look familiar because I introduced you to his oldest brother at the last council meeting and to the middle brother last December. The Washington family is making history with the East Lansing Police Department. Over the years we've had siblings serve together but this is the first time in our history that we've welcomed three brothers to our department. Demarius was born and raised in Lansing and attended a blended high school. He has an associate degree in computer programming from Lansing Community College and has started to work on his bachelor's degree in cyber security. He was a graduate of the Mid-Michigan Police Academy in May of this year and had just started his training program at the Lansing Police Department. He's grateful that he graduated from the academy because he had to do part of the exit exam with one shoe on. so he hobbled through the run but still was able to pass. Outside of work, he enjoys basketball, walking dogs, and video games. Next, I'd like to introduce Aaron Stearns. Aaron graduated from Mason High School and attended both Central Michigan University and Mid-Michigan Community College. He has three years of military service where he was a combat engineer stationed in Hawaii. He graduated from the 112 Mid-Michigan Police Academy and worked for the Lansing Police Department for the last two and a half years. When he's not working, he enjoys spending time with family and playing Dungeons and Dragons. And last but not least is Brendan Martin. Brendan is also a graduate of Mason High School. He attended Lansing Community College and graduated from the 114th Mid-Michigan Police Academy. For the past year and a half, he has served with the Lansing Police Department where he gained valuable law enforcement experience. Outside of work, he enjoys playing ice hockey and golf. Please join me in welcoming them to the East Lansing Police Department.

Thank you, Chief, and welcome to officers Washington, Stearns, and Martin. We're glad you're on the team. Thank you. That brings us to the consent agenda. Ms. Irwin.

Yes, thank you. 4.1 Consent Agenda. Approve the following appointments or reappointments to boards or commissions. Johnny Vlahakis to the Brownfield Redevelopment Authority for a partial term ending June 30th, 2028. Jacqueline Bobcock to the Brownfield Redevelopment Authority for a full term ending June 30th, 2030. Jill Rohde to the Brownfield Redevelopment Authority for a full term ending June 30th, 2030. Jeff Mason to the Brownfield Redevelopment Authority for a full term ending June 30th, 2030. Thomas Coyne to the Housing Commission for a partial term ending December 31st, 2026. Julie, oh, I should have asked. Right. Someone will now resume ski to the capital area transportation authority, partial term ending September 30th, 2029 Kirk Dahmer to the arts commission for a partial term ending December 31st, 2026 4.2 approve a license agreement between the city of East Lansing and Glen care neighborhood association for a neighborhood entry sign located in Glen Haven park. 4.3, approve a conditional class three rental license for an occupancy of up to two unrelated persons or a family at 1986 North Harrison. The owner of record is Samson Chu. The legal representative is the same. 4.4, approve Ordinance 1579, an ordinance to amend Chapter 7, Article 2, Section 7-82 of the Code of the City of East Lansing for the purposes of amending a citation from Section 7-82 to Section 7-82 . 4.5, approve a three year lease agreement with Forrester Woods Adult Day Services for the use of Valley Court Community Center to provide adult day services, authorize the interim city manager to sign, and approve a related budget amendment. 4.6, approve a contract for the CDBG fiscal year 2026 Hanna Community Center project to Lopez Concrete Construction in the amount of $170,000, which includes a 16% contingency, and authorize the interim city manager to sign. 4.7, approve a resolution to appoint Annette Irwin as trustee to the Western Michigan Health Insurance Pool. 4.8, approve a street closure request on Albert Avenue from the west side of the intersection at MAC Avenue through to the east side of the intersection at Grove Street and including the alley at Ann Street Plaza for EL Vision on September 18 with a rainout date of September 25th starting at 8 a.m. and ending at 11 p.m. 4.9, approve the 2027 Humana Medicare Advantage renewal and authorize the interim city manager to sign. 4.10, approve a letter of support to Governor Gretchen Whitmer for the inclusion of census tract 41, 43.01, and 43.02 located within the city of East Lansing in the Opportunity Zones 2.0 program. for a tool qualifying investment in designated lower income census tracts. 4.11, approve a conditional Class IV rental license for an occupancy of up to four unrelated persons or a family at 743 Grove Street with the condition that the rental license cannot be issued until the property passes all the trades inspections and the permits related to the renovations are finalized by city inspectors. The owner of record is Hagen Group, LLC. The legal representative is Hagen Realty, Incorporated. 4.12, approve a conditional Class IV rental license for an occupancy of up to four unrelated persons or a family at 765 Grove Street. The owner of record is Hagen Group, LLC. The legal representative is Hagen Realty, Incorporated. 4.13, approve a road closure for the east and westbound lanes on Albert Avenue from Grove Street to MAC Avenue for 80's night from from Friday, September 11, 2026 at 2 p.m. to Saturday, September 12, 2026 at 8 a.m. That is the end of the consent agenda. Thank you.

Thank you. Would any council member like an item removed from the consent agenda to the business agenda? Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented? Moved by Grigby, second by Meadows. Any discussion of the consent agenda?

Yes. On the 4.10 on the letter regarding the census tracts for opportunity zones, are we working with our state legislators to also submit a letter to MEDC and the governor?

We are working with several different organizations, and we'll be reaching out to our state representatives also to help us through this process.

And, Senator, you need all the way. Yes.

The more you can.

Yep. Okay. Yep, we are working on that. It's competitive to get on there. Yes.

Any further questions concerning or discussion concerning the consent agenda? All right, so the motion is to approve the consent agenda as presented. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Consent agenda is approved. Which brings us to item 5.1, a public hearing to receive comments on proposed ordinance 1570, an amendment to chapter 50 of the city code to rezone 3859 Stoll Road from B4, restricted office business, to R1, low density, single family residential. Mr. Bartley.

Thank you, Landon Bartley, principal planner. So this is a rezoning request that staff originated following another rezoning that happened that was approved recently in July. by the council to rezone many properties north of Lake Lansing Road that had Dewitt Township zoning. And so those have all been, the rezoning has gone through on those. This is a single property on the north side of Stoll Road, just west of Chandler Road at the far north end of the city, just south of the Chandler Bridge over I-69. That is currently within the city of East Lansing. It currently has East Lansing zoning of B-4 zoning. However, the recent Ordinance 1564, which rezoned all the Dewitt Township Zone properties, rezoned those properties surrounding this property to R1, a low-density residential. So this ordinance would change the zoning of this subject property, 3859 Stoll, to match that of the R1 surrounding zoning. We haven't received any correspondence from anyone about this request. Tonight is a public hearing, but in case council would like to take action, I have included a sample motion.

Questions for staff, or for staff?

Mr. Meadows. So this was staff-originated rezoning, not requested by the owner, correct? That's correct. And it's M4 at this point?

It's currently B4, the restricted office business district. The M4 was the comprehensive plan designation from 2018.

Okay, and this is no longer DeWitt zoning or is?

No, this had East Lansing zoning. The surrounding properties had DeWitt Township zoning. And those have been changed to East Lansing, R1.

Okay, yeah. When this property came in, if you look at the map of this, the lower portion was presented to us as going to be condominium development. which never has happened. It's a woods. And then the upper portion that would be adjacent to an exit ramp off of I-69 was presented to us as a hotel or a motel. None of this has happened in the 20 or so years that since that property was brought into the city and we have rezoned it at some point. So I don't have a problem with what we're doing here. I just wanted to give a little history as to why it kind of looks the way it does still on this map that we're looking at.

Any further questions for staff? Landon, could you bring up the property? Is it possible or is that a great big pain?

I guess I... I can very quickly send a map to Christina who could pull it up.

I don't want to complicate things unnecessarily. But let me just ask, was this the property where the owner came to a planning commission hearing and expressed an interest in not being B4 and being

uh the owner of a nearby property that's still in dewitt township zoning said his property was residential and he spoke at a planning commission meeting yeah but this is not that property it's not that property he was nearby and said i don't know why this is business i'm paraphrasing but This is a residential area. These should be residential. And that was part of the impetus to change those to residential. Got it.

Yeah. OK.

But not from this property particularly.

OK. All right. But people are on board with this as far as I can? As far as I'm aware, yes. As far as we know. OK. So this is a public hearing. Let me open the public hearing. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to address this issue? Seeing none, I will close the public hearing. Oh, callers, are there any callers?

No, there are no callers, then I can pull up the map and do it like.

Okay, yeah, that'd be great. Now we got cards for item 5.2 and 5.3. So I do wanna have a look at the map if it's possible because there's an odd shape up there. Yeah, that's it. So it's up at the top right of that map?

If you can scroll down one page, Emily. And if you can zoom in to the top right corner of that page, leave that up on there right now. Right there.

So that white square in the middle of the blue, is that not East Lansing?

That's correct. That's DeWitt Township.

Okay. And it might have been one of those property owners who... I believe so, yes. ...came and said, okay. I just want to point out that that's an odd shape. That's all I want to point out. Okay. And it's not an error in the map. It is what it is. It is what it is. We can act tonight if we would like. Yes, please. Okay.

I move to adopt proposed ordinance 1570 as amended to chapter 50 of the city code zoning to rezone 3859 Stull Road, excuse me, from B4. restricted office business to R1 low density single family residential for the following reasons. The city has found, I gotta make my font a little bit bigger, I apologize. The city has found that rezoning is consistent with the policies and uses proposed for area that in the city comprehensive plan use plan because of the proposed zoning has been found to be consistent with desired future usage in the area as expressed by property owners nearby residents staff or others two all the users allowed under the proposed rezoning would be compatible with the other zones and use this in the surrounding area because adoption would result in the alignment of this property zoning with the adjacent and nearby properties following the adoption of ordinance 1564. Three, public facilities and services would not be significantly adversely impacted by development or use allowed under the request of rezoning because the proposed R1 zoning is of a lower intensity than the current BC zoning designation and in line with the comments received from nearby property owners. Four, the uses allowed under the proposed rezoning would be equally better suited to the area than uses allowed under the current zoning of the land because the existing land usage on this and adjacent properties are residential in nature and would not become nonconforming as a result of the proposed zoning change.

Okay, motion by Grigsby.

Second.

Second by Singh. Any discussion of the motion? Mr. Meadows?

I just want to note that, you know, if nobody's familiar with this area, I would note that I walk the dog, you know, on that street, that road, pretty often. And the Stoll Road is primarily residential agricultural. I mean, if RA, our RA district, you know, probably looks most like this. There are individual homes there and a lot of farm fields. And this particular corner has gone undeveloped, even though I think we would like to see it developed. And R1 designation, I think, would be encouraging, maybe except for along the exit ramp, should it ever happen. But at this point in time, this is really a good result, I think, for that area.

Any further discussion on this issue? Okay, seeing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion carries and that ordinance is approved. Item 5.2, a public hearing to receive comments on proposed ordinance 1575, amendments to chapter 50 of the city code of the zoning ordinance and to chapter four of the city code to modify requirements related to electric vehicles and charging stations, parking ratios for automobiles and bicycles, landscaping, green space and trees, and the keeping of bees and chickens. Ms. McCarthy.

Good evening. Grace McCarthy, the associate planner. So this set of ordinance changes originated from a committee, the Green Code Study Committee. They looked at a variety of ordinances between DPW and things that were involved in the zoning ordinance. So this went to Planning Commission after it was referred by City Council in May. The Planning Commission held their public hearing. They recommended approval to city council and then at their subsequent meeting, they voted to recommend a correction in the parking ratio for efficiency in one bedroom. multi-family residential units, which is reflected in the copy that's in this packet. The Commission on the Environment also discussed the draft language at its June and July meetings and then recommended approval of the ordinance that was recommended by Planning Commission with some additional guidelines related to beekeeping that were suggested by them related to the length of the permitting and then a couple of minor changes to the requirements for hives. Right now public work staff is working on amendments to the tree manual with our city attorneys and that will impact the suggested zoning ordinance tree replacement standards that are recommended. Along with that I did get some minor edits from the city attorney back today that they would like included. So between those changes that need to be made we're recommending deferring action on this ordinance till the September 22nd meeting.

Questions for staff? Okay, this is a public hearing. I do have one slip. I'll open the public hearing. Cullen O'Brien.

My name is Colin O'Brien. I'm a resident of East Lansing and a student at Michigan State. I'm just going to comment briefly on the ordinance, particularly the one that we're talking about here, particularly the alterations to parking. I just want to talk about how I think it is in the best interest not only of the community here, but also general residents of East Lansing as well as business owners to alter the parking minimums to parking. either reduce them heavily or to completely eliminate them. Particularly for restaurants, I saw that residential parking minimums were heavily reduced. And I think that it should be completely eliminated as well as just the complete elimination of business owner parking minimums. I THINK THERE ARE JUST PLENTY OF REASONS WHY. I WOULD SAY, I BELIEVE IT DOESN'T JUST GO FAR ENOUGH. AS MICHIGAN STATE IS PROJECTED TO GROW, WE WILL NEED HIGHER DENSITY HOUSING, AND THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE LESS OF HOUSING, IT MEANS HOUSING PRICES GOES UP. I THINK FOR RESIDENTS IT MAKES IT MUCH LESS AFFORDABLE, AS WELL AS JUST MAINTAINING THESE PARKING SPOTS FOR BUSINESSES MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO EVEN RUN. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A PERCEIVED LACK OF PARKING BY RESIDENTS AS WELL AS BUSINESS OWNERS, BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, AT LEAST FOR RESIDENTS, THAT'S NOT TRUE. I HAVE MANY CONSTITUENTS, PARTICULARLY AT MICHIGAN STATE, WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE OPINION IS THAT WALKABILITY IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, HAVING A A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND TO WORK TO AROUND JUST NOT JUST FROM DOWNTOWN BUT ALSO FROM THEIR HOUSE. IT MAKES IT MUCH MORE HARDER WHEN YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN A VEHICLE WHEN YOU ARE A HOUSE THAT HAS REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PARKING SPOTS. ADDITIONALLY THERE IS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT THERE ARE ECONOMIC SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES RELATED TO PARKING MINIMUMS. LESS PARKING MEANS THAT IF YOU'RE TOURS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON GRAND RIVER, YOU'RE WALKING DOWN, SEEING A BUNCH OF SHOPS, AND THEN YOU'RE A LITTLE HUNGRY, YOU CAN SEE PEANUT BARREL. NOW, IF YOU HAVE A PARKING LOT BETWEEN THOSE SHOPS, YOU'RE LESS LIKELY TO GO TO PEANUT BARREL. THERE ARE ECONOMIC BENEFITS TO BUSINESS OWNERS, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A PERCEIVED LACK OF PARKING, BUT I THINK THAT IT IS MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THESE BUSINESS OWNERS TO MAINTAIN LESSER PARKING MINIMUMS. In general, I would also say that in the state of Michigan, there are many municipalities that have eliminated parking minimums like Ann Arbor, Mount Pleasant, Ecores, and they have seen the benefits. In general, there is empirical evidence that show these benefits, and I think it is in the best interest to reduce them heavily in this ordinance. Even if it is not now, particularly among restaurants and small businesses, I think it is of interest to do so. I also just want to acknowledge the severity or seriousness of earlier comments in this meeting, particularly around August 2nd. Even though this is off topic, I just want to acknowledge it. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to address this particular issue during the public hearing?

Okay.

Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Any callers? No callers? Okay. Any further discussion or questions for staff?

Staff has requested that we defer this for further look at, so I'm ready to make that motion. Please. Okay, I'll move that we defer action on ordinance 1575 to our September 22nd, 2026 regular city council meeting.

Motion by Meadows, second by Whalen. Any discussion of the motion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries and that ordinance is deferred. Thank you. That brings us to item 5.3, a public hearing to receive comments on an appeal of a street tree removal violation at 528 MAC Avenue. Staff.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Emily Gordon, City Clerk. We're here tonight, like you said, to receive comments on the appeal of a street tree removal for a violation of 528 MAC. The Section 48-96 of the City Code allows any person agreed by a decision of the City Engineer to appeal that decision to Council, provided a written appeal is filed with the City Clerk within 10 calendar days of the decision. I did receive that appeal on June 5th, 2026 via email. At that point, council is required to hold a public hearing on the appeal to give the applicant an opportunity to present their case given the adjacent property owners and other interested parties the opportunity to be heard. This public hearing is to provide that opportunity. The options for what is next is laid out in the staff report and I'm going to turn it over to Alicia Wrighton who will give the background information.

Good evening council, Alicia Wright and senior planner. The application was before the historic district commission on February 12th, 2026, which included replacement of concrete related items, a front brick walkway to the street using limestone, adding seat outcroppings or stone benches and specifically placed boulders with reference to the drawings for boulders and seat outcroppings, croppings, and other greenery changes. It did not include any conversation related to trees or removal. The Meeting minutes do not reflect any conversation. I have no recollection of any conversation related to trees mentioned on their property or within the city right away. Historic District Commission has no authority to authorize street tree removal. How they came about to their belief of permission granted by the Historic District Commission, they'll have to speak on their own volition. I am not sure how they came up with that. There were no call-outs on the plans related to tree removal. And again, the Historic District Commission has no authority. And had tree removal been mentioned, we would have advised them that a permit was required. And Cliff is here to discuss the elements related to how it came about that they ended up with the fine, which they are appealing.

Mr. Walz.

Yeah, my role here is somewhat limited. It's just a kind of a matter of fact. Um, we have tree removal permits for public trees. Uh, we didn't have any for this address. We came across four trees that were removed. They were public trees. And so we followed the ordinance, um, prescribed process for that. Um, as far as like what happened before that with the commission, I can't really speak to. It's just, um, Very kind of like I said matter of fact Found four trees removed. We followed the ordinance and I'm here to answer any questions Questions for staff.

Mr. Whelan Quick comment and then a question for you. Mr. I was also in that meeting and there was nothing mentioned about trees on the treescape, I think. So I'm in agreement with you on that with the minutes. Mr. Walls, at one point it talks about different options to be done. From what I understand, if the roots are ground down, you can't plant a tree very quickly there, don't you need more time? On Maplewood, whenever we had a tree removed, we always had to wait several years to plant a tree there.

That is best practice. Um, you can, you can still stay pretty close. You just don't want to get in the habit of having all those grindings from a stump removal in the hole and then plant over top of it for a number of reasons. Also just like the nutrient breakdown can cause issues for the establishing new tree. But, um, you can shift in a pretty small, um, you know, distance away from it and, and still replace. It's not a very wide radius that you need to avoid or anything. Okay. I will mention as far as the options, that's not the extent of it. We just tried to come up with something that provided a level of baseline. These don't come up very often. My four and a half years here is the first appeal of one of these. We also don't have a ton of unpermitted tree removals to begin with. So we worked with the attorneys to kind of provide something, but it's not the extent of what is possible. I think it provides a good baseline of options for you, though. Did you say we do have a ton of unauthorized tree removals? We don't have a ton. We don't? No. Okay.

That would have been alarming if we had a ton.

No, there's more than I would like. That's for certain. But, yeah, most of the contractors in town are going to know that we have a pretty strong ordinance and give us a heads up and we can avoid issues ahead of time. Ms. Wrighton.

Not to interrupt that portion, but I neglected to mention that Vice Chair Boyle is here from the Historic District Commission. Should you have any questions for him? Okay. And Chair Molly Spooner submitted a written correspondence to City Council, which is in the packet from today.

Thank you for noting that. I did note that I was going to mention that she wrote in also along the similar lines that everybody's been mentioning. Other questions for staff? Yeah, please.

You know, I'm looking at the picture here and it appears that the forestry trees were spread out along the entire frontage of the property. I think I'm looking at the right picture. And the one on the What would be the south end of that property, I think, looks deader than a doornail. Was that considered or talked about in establishing a fine or anything else that was provided to these individuals?

It's included in that fine. I guess I should have talked to Blake, our arborist, about that specifically. But as far as I'm aware, that has had recent maintenance on it. But that is a fair point. If there's evidence of that, then that's worth your consideration.

But I will say we have sometimes people call about

There's been cases where we've had some illegal removals that are related to a dead tree, and we are so responsive to those. If somebody calls and lets us know, like there's 11,000 trees, we don't know what's going on in every single one of them at every time. We are so fast to pull trees out and usually replace them. So even if per ordinance, if a strict reading of the ordinance, removal, there's exemptions for removal permits. Even for private trees, upon verification of the city engineer and how it works is I'm the designee and then I designate our arborist. But we typically treat them as public assets. So people aren't making their own judgment calls of what is dead or not. We run into that a lot where people will say it's, well, this tree, usually on private property, but this tree has X disease or it's declining. And declining is a lot different than dead. Right. And not saying that's the instance here. But when you open up that can of saying, well, it's up to you to decide how this public asset is being treated, then it just causes a lot of... heartburn and that's how mistakes are made often.

And in your opinion anyway, four replacement trees could still be planted in this spread of public green space that's in front of this building?

Four would be no problem. If you start getting into the ordinance prescribed ratio, I think you run into some space constraints and also just aesthetic value as well. But yeah, four I don't think is an issue.

Okay, thanks.

So I have a question, a couple of questions. One is, these trees were addressed by the block pruning program, right? And if the people doing the block pruning encounter a dead tree, they will let you know, presumably, right? And then we would have taken it out.

Yeah. Or it would have been on the schedule and it's, that's probably something I could pull up here to see, um, to confirm if that was called out. But we had our arborist do the response to that and I apologize. I don't have that top of my head.

So the other question I had was, um, is the citation to the property owner, is it the citation to the contractor who removed the trees?

For all of our citations at DPW, at least anyone I've been involved in, it all goes to the property owner, which is because a lot of contractors, they come from everywhere, not just trees, but concrete or anyone doing right-of-way work, and it's largely impossible to track them down, and there's not that mechanism in which to apply that citation to the property if it's, you know, an out of, So that's the standard practice that we use at DPW. I will say, and it's kind of getting beyond this, but one of the changes I want to make with the tree ordinance is to have a contractor registration system to where we can have an initial conversation with anyone who wants to work on trees in the area. Because right now, a lot of this, and I'm not commenting on this particular example, but in general, we have instances where a homeowner will think that they're okay because they trusted the advice of their contractor. Same as if you had an electrician come in your house and said, oh, this needs this. Here's the permits you need. You just kind of say, yep, you're the guy. I'm going to trust you. But we run into a lot of issues where the homeowners left with the bill that they reasonably assumed the contractor was working in good faith or with an understanding of the ordinance. So that is a thing that we do hope to improve in the ordinance because it is something that comes up more than we would like.

And then with the registry, then you could have some confidence that the contractor would know that they needed a permit to work with them right away.

Yeah, and the idea wouldn't be punitive at first. It would be, right now, we often hear, well, we didn't know. And I don't doubt that they don't know. And again, I'm talking generally on this. But I don't know is not a good answer, even if I believe them. So it would be nice to have a way to ensure that they know, and then anything from there on out is on them, and you have their kind of license to operate on file, then you could use that as leverage.

Okay, this is a public, yeah, Mr. Grigsby.

Kind of an open question. So out of 100 homeowners and contractor scenarios like that, how many would you say are stuck with the bill if you just had to estimate it generally?

This is very infrequent for public right-of-way because I feel like most understand that the public right-of-way is the public right-of-way. I would say it's more of an issue on private property where it's like a large commercial properties that are having work done and we have a pretty strict ordinance on that. I would say that's more common. But in terms of the average homeowner, I would say it's, It's not, I mean, single, very five a year, maybe absolute max. I would say it's less about the actual city trees, even though it does occur. And it's something like a crane. They have a tree in their backyard and they need a crane to get it out. And the crane, you know, can damage the road and often does damage the road and a lot of They have to have a road closure permit so we know that the police and the ambulance can't go down their road and all that. And that's usually where those come up where they don't recognize the permits that they need. Related to trees, but not specifically city public tree assets, that does happen, but it's more like the right-of-way permits, the road closures and stuff like that.

And this program or this policy that you want to create, I know we're getting this a little bit outside, but is that something that you're going to model from another municipality or is it something that you have to kind of get it from ground up type of thing?

Frankly, it's done. It's been done. There's been some recent case law changes that have impacted what we can do around private trees that has to be considered and working with the city attorneys on that to make it like a draft that I had ready to go to make it actually ready for you to consider. And I'm kind of on the clock because of what Grace just presented. But what I really modeled it after was our coal tar seal coating registration ordinance. So that is something, we're getting way kind of off topic, but coal tar seal coating is something people put on their asphalt. And it's heavy in something they call PAHs, it's like polyaromatic hydrocarbons. It's really bad for groundwater or for surface water. And so we have a system in place here and we've joined many communities around the country and like Ann Arbor and some others on requiring people who are applying asphalt seal coating to have a license to operate. And then they have to basically recognize the signature that they do not use the coal tar variety of product. which is also just kind of getting off the shelves anyways. It's not as necessary as it was when it was implemented at the city. but that provided a model for like how we can create a registration of private businesses for a purpose, very similar, which is just, we want you to know that you know the rules, not something where it's, you know, pay a bunch of money to be registered, but just make sure that there's a opportunity where we can exchange the information and the rules and that they've had eyes on it and they have that opportunity to do so. But that was more of the model.

Okay, this is a public hearing, so let me open the public hearing and call Tracy Mullaney.

My name is Brody Luke. I'm with Luke Landscape Company, the contractor working on behalf of Kappa Delta. I just wanted to give a quick explanation of how we ended up here. This was a miscommunication between our client and us. We made a mistake. That's the long and short version of how we ended up here. Kappa Delta, this is an odd situation where A commercial client was going to be pulling the permits that we were normally the ones to pull, and we did not check to make sure the proper permits were pulled. So that's on both of us. Our goal is just to come up with a resolution that we think is reasonable. The way the ordinance is written, the removal of these four trees, which one of you pointed out were not in great health, would equate to eight three-inch caliber trees. which is, in my opinion, pretty steep for the removal of four trees that are, again, not in the best of health. I realize that's not our place to make that judgment, but just trying to come up with a solution to get this handled quickly and efficiently because this is a property that is on MAC, just down the road. And in a perfect world we'd like to try to resolve this before the students are back. Maybe that's not possible, but in a perfect world we'd like to. I know there are four potential resolutions written on your brief. For what it is worth, we would, if possible, prefer to go with number four. We have zero issue replacing the four trees with four healthy three inch caliber trees as soon as you would allow us. I do have our horticulturist Kate McQuay here who can explain further about the health of the trees that were taken out and what they looked like prior to us removing them. I'm gonna defer to Kate at this moment if that is okay. Unless there are any questions I can answer for you.

Any questions for the speaker?

have you replaced other trees on mac previously uh not in that particular road no mr whalen and you're accustomed to if you're going to grind it down where to plant how to plant i know you have a long lasting business i've seen a lot of your work in the past

The only clarification we would need is on the fine that was assessed, there's a $540 fine for the grounding of the stumps and the site repair. So we would just need clarification. If we were to pay that fine, if the city of East Lansing would be taking care of that portion of the work or if that fine were removed and we were responsible for it. We have no problem paying the fine if that is how the fine for the 540, if that is how the city would like to proceed.

And also, the city will be having a conversation with which kind of trees to plant. I know in my previous neighborhood, the city only wants certain trees planted. You're okay with discussing with the city exactly what trees they would require?

Yes, we actually do have a list from Forrester Blake Herity already of the preferred types of trees. The only issue would be making sure we could get three inch caliber versions of those trees at this time. Which, for the record, I believe we can.

Okay, thank you. Tracy Mullaney.

Hi, thank you.

I work as a liaison slash property manager for several properties on MAC. I don't want to give the impression that I assumed all was well because we went to the historical society and they approved our plans for rocks and I spoke with Alicia about this already. However, I don't understand why it was the property owner that was responsible for this as well. Say I hired a plumber for this house, I helped them with their property inspections to get their rental license renewed, and it turns out we have to do all the special plumbing work. Am I responsible for that permit or is the plumber? I should know if they're insured and bonded, but who is responsible at that point in time? The plumber or me to pull the permit? It's just a general question I'd like to know because the property owner got billed.

I assume the city attorney would be the right person to answer this question, but I would just tell you that you have a contract with a plumber or somebody who is going to remove trees from your property. The contract itself will identify who is responsible for getting the permits. If it is not the contractor, it is the property owner.

So unless it says we are responsible for all permits.

Actually, unless it said they are responsible for getting permits, you are responsible. City attorney?

Okay.

Thank you. Any further comments? Pardon me? Any further comments?

I do want to reiterate that it was obviously we would not maliciously tear down the city's trees. We are trying to rectify the situation. And I think there was also a misconception because we, in that right-of-way area, we had bricks for the house that were engraved. And we were getting permission to... redo that portion of the sidewalk that was on that right away and i think that's how this ballooned into something far larger as far as assumptions go so i believed we had everything covered that's all i want to say any further questions for the applicant thank you is there anybody else who would like to address please

We'll have copies for everybody, I'm sorry, but we can kind of pass these along.

I'd like to just provide some general comments regarding the health and condition of the street trees that we encountered and removed. My name is Kate McCoy. I am a horticulturist for Luke Landscape Company. The first image that you're looking at there is the small dogwood on the far south end of the property that was already commented on earlier. You can see in this picture that was taken in summer of last year, almost exactly a year ago. It has a thin irregular canopy with very stunted growth. The trunk you can see starts off about this big around and then gets significantly smaller very abruptly, which is not typical of a healthy tree. It shows that there's been a lot of stress, a lot of damage that has happened to that tree, and it is clearly not in good condition. On the second picture in the packet, you'll see a serviceberry, which is the next tree down the line in the frontage there. This tree shows it had a blackened trunk, which a serviceberry, if you're not familiar, typically has very kind of silvery bark. And when it turns black, it's a sign of a disease, whether it's sooty mold or a condition called fire blight. That wasn't determined, but it obviously had some sort of condition happening. The next picture is the first of two crab apples. You can see that at the base there was lots of suckering growth happening. You know, the little sprouts that shoot up from the bottom when a tree is under stress. That is very common in crab apples that have been poorly maintained over many years. You can see by the branching structure that there have been a lot of branches removed that it's got an awkward, funny shape. Clearly a tree under stress. The same is true for the next crabapple down the line. Lots of suckering growth at the base and a very crooked, deformed trunk where branches have been clearly removed due to decline. Continuing on in the packet, there are some pictures that I've pulled off from Google Maps Street View. These images are from 15 years ago of these same trees. This first image is the first dogwood, the first tree that we looked at. You can see in this picture from 15 years ago, that tree actually looks larger and healthier than it did at the time of its removal. Add more branches, a straighter trunk happening. The next tree is the serviceberry, the one that had the blackened bark prior to its removal. You can see there that it was formerly silver bark, very healthy, 15 years ago. And then the final page shows the crabapple trees. Suckering growth beginning to show even 15 years ago, but their canopies were fuller and rounder with proper branching structure. I feel like this shows pretty clearly that these trees were in a desperate state of decline. And while we didn't follow the steps properly, unwittingly, I think changing these trees, improving these trees, improves the site, improves the quality of the streetscape.

Questions?

Is the blackened trunk, is that a dead tree?

It was not dead at the time of its removal. Whether the condition was the sooty mold, sooty mold is a condition that happens when sucking insects feed on the tree and the sap from the tree and the excrement from the insects coats the tree and then a mold develops on that sweet, sticky residue. And fire blight is actually a disease that can affect the tree and it actually makes the branches look scorched and burned, both of which cause a blackened appearance to them.

In the third picture, you said what's growing at the root there?

Say that again?

What's that?

I didn't hear your question.

Oh, I'm sorry. On the third page, you said at the bottom of that tree, the sprouts are growing now at the bottom. Can you tell me why that?

Yeah, so crabapple trees, being in the apple family, they have a lot of funky growth characteristics that if they're not properly managed, have a significant effect on the health and beauty of a tree. When an apple or a crabapple is under stress, one of the main things it does is sends up shoots from the trunk or from the branches. Branches, they shoot straight up. If it's not properly maintained, those branches actually will encircle the entire tree and make it look more like a bush than a tree. But a tree under stress, you know, this is probably something that has been happening, I mean, clearly over many years, those pictures from 15 years ago show that that process had begun even then. So that is indicative of continual stress on these trees, showing that they clearly were not thriving in this location.

Further questions? Thank you. Mr. Boyle, please.

Brendan Boyle, Vice Chair of the Historic District Commission. I won't lend much time to your meeting. I have a very short story. The only thing that we were approached for was stonework and brickwork, and we certainly don't have the authority or interest in directing anybody to do or not do anything to trees in the right of way. So that was the extent of our approving the stonework and the brickwork.

Questions for Mr. Boyle? Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to address this issue? Any callers? Okay. All right. I'm going to close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. Mr. Walls.

I was just going to clarify one thing just on the motions about the stump grinding. I know that was referenced. I have no strong preference if it's performed by the city's contractor or Luke's contractor. I assume that we probably have the bulk rate. I don't know what they can get it for. It's typically cheaper if we do it, and we often like it because it's done to our specs, and we have their information on file, and they have a right-of-way permit. So part of the assumption there is that by the time it's all said and done, it's easier and cheaper for the city to do it for them and us. But if that assumption is incorrect, that's also an option to allow them to do that if that is their preference. They would just have to put their insurance on file and get a right-of-way permit to do it.

But you don't have an objection to that process?

No. We would just ask them to follow our specs, which is basically we just go to a certain depth, which is just so we have kind of to address some of those issues that you brought up. But we could have it done very quickly and relatively cheap because we have a contract that's at scale. I can't speak to what it costs them. But if they can do it cheaper than that after the permits and everything, then I have no objection to it. Please.

It would be cheaper if you could approach the microphone, please.

it would be cheaper for everyone if you guys did it. Okay, all right, thank you.

Mr. Whelan.

So not to address, I don't believe that, so the resident, I'm sorry, the property management company was very respectful at HTC. I remember them being very forthcoming about the type of stones they were going to use and all the different things. Attempting to really follow the rules. That's that was my impression. I'm a little concerned with kind of the different perspective in their appeal, but is there something Mr.. Walls that we can Is there something you're happy with that? I guess this I really feel like this is out of my bailiwick as far as deciding which of the four And I'd like to know if if we can ask you for what you believe is the most fair and assessment of correcting the situation.

Yeah.

I, if that's fair for me to ask.

Yeah. I'm acknowledging that the ordinance is what we follow. You know, like I, I have no feelings that they did this maliciously or anything. It's a mistake, but as staff we follow the ordinance. Um, and I would say that Option four would be fine. The only thing that I would say that kind of just getting pragmatic with it is like we spent time putting this stuff together and you know we're here and like those are that's kind of a cost recovery that I think part of the fine is meant to address in a way you know that's why they I've assumed that's part of how that's all factored in but I'd be perfectly happy from you know apples to apples standpoint if If we just have some nice new trees there, and I'll acknowledge, yeah, they weren't in the greatest health. Like I said, there's reasons that we don't kind of outsource that determination of what can be done with it. I'm sure it's something that we could have removed and put in place. But I think option four is not unfair to anyone.

And that's with them offering the $540 stump graining fee. for each one or just altogether?

That would be for everything. Like I said, we can do it pretty cheap.

That's really, really inexpensive.

Yeah. We have some good pricing on everything pretty much.

Um, I just want to make sure the city's made whole.

Yeah. If you're ignoring, like I said, the staff time, which is kind of incidental in a, in a way and it's not like it's hourly, but it's, that's like the one non-cost recovery if you want to think of it that way, but that would replace trees. We'd ended up with better trees than that were there. Um, and I think that I would have no issues with that. Like I said, I think it's one of those honest mistakes. We have too many honest mistakes. That's what we're trying to address broadly is because it, I don't doubt that a lot of these are honest mistakes, but we're still tied to what's written in ordinance. Um, So I wish we could go somewhere.

I just got a couple of questions. And then you can make your motion, because that would be the one I support.

Anyway, number four, right?

Yes. Just a couple of questions based on what I'm looking at here, which is just to bring up the Google map's view of this street. And along the street in other areas there are smaller trees that have been planted in the public waterway with a white

sock on those those were planted by the city or someone else a white sock um oh like the sleeve yes yeah that's a deer um a deer rub prevention and for rabbits and a lot of other things but but my question was were those planted by the city If it's assuming that they're in the right-of-way, then that's tough. Yes, I would assume they're planted in the right-of-way.

We come into issues fairly often because the right-of-way is not just the space between the road and the sidewalk.

Sometimes it's 30 feet from the curb line and sometimes people plant a tree and we don't know about it, but it's our responsibility because it ended up there or they didn't know where the right-of-way line was. So like, But to answer your question, yes, that would be the assumption.

Okay, well, what I'm looking at here is like three properties in a row with the same small tree planted in front with the white.

Yeah, they probably went through and did a whole block or something at one point.

So my question to you is, did the city go up and down MAC and evaluate the trees that are in the public right-of-way remove some, replace some. Was there a program that did that? And did they evaluate the four trees that are in front of the sorority?

Yeah, I did look that up. Um, I knew it was in the block pruning zone too, so it's been very recently done. Um, there was, there were some notes on it basically saying that it was in, had some mechanical damage and we, you know, marked it to keep an eye on. Um, a lot of times we don't, if there's something like that, we wouldn't proactively remove it. If somebody asked and said, Hey, this is looking pretty rough. And I would like to replace like we, we often do that, but there's enough coming at us where we don't always kind of sniff it out and do it proactively. But there is notes that acknowledge that, uh, during black pruning, it was identified with some mechanical damage and some of those issues, but it wasn't marked for removal. And what I'm seeing in our inventory right now, but that whole stretch and beyond was recently assessed as part of that program.

Okay. Thank you.

I'm ready to make a motion.

Please.

As before, I would like to make sure that the residents are going to help to maintain the tree, to water them, and this and that. That's not all listed in here. I think it's just normal. When I've had a tree planted in my front, I was responsible for making sure I did upkeep. And I think the sooner the better before students get here, because then students destroy trees. All that to say is I move to deny the applicant's appeal of the City Engineering Tree Violation Notice and Penalty Calculation, finding the violation and the underlying penalty calculation to be correct, pursuant to section 48-98-subsection one, Council authorizes applicant to satisfy the $4,710 civil penalty in full through limited replacement planting in lieu of payment of their assessed damages and or full replanting rate. The applicant shall plant four three-inch replacement trees in a location and variety approved by the city engineer within 90 days of this decision upon completion to the city engineer's satisfaction. The $4,710 civil penalty is satisfied and full, even though the planted trees offset fewer inches than the strict inch-for-inch penalty would require. The waiver applies only to $4,710 civil penalty, the $540 stump grinding and safe in-site restoration charge, and the $218 after-the-fact permit fee or cost recovery for expenses for the city will occur. Are not money damages under Section 48-98, Subsection 1? and are not affected by this motion. The applicant remains responsible for paying both in full. If the applicant does not complete the approved planning within the time allowed, the $4710 civil penalty becomes full due in full.

Motion by Whalen. Second. Second by Grigsby. That would be option number four, read into the record. Any discussion of that motion? Mr. Grigsby, anything? Mr. Meadows?

I'll just say that, you know, based on the answer to my question, I think this option number four really makes sense for us. They may have done us a favor by removing these trees at some point because it sounds like we've already evaluated them as potential removals in any event. So this is a fair way to take care of this.

I'll just say I'm concerned that... I don't want people, other people than the city, evaluating the health of city trees. I think that sends us down, I think that sends us in a very bad direction.

And also I think the description of the, I drive up and down there all the time and I've never noticed just these horrible trees. So I think the description may have been maybe a little bit exaggerated.

Yeah. So on those grounds, I'm going to move to substitute option three for option four. And if I get a second, I'll read it into the record. But if I don't, then I'll save some time. That motion fails for lack of a second. I didn't really understand what you were trying to do. My motion, sorry, my motion was to amend the motion read by Council Member Whalen. and by substituting option three for option four. And if I get a second, I'll read option three into the record.

A second for the discussion.

Okay, so I move to substitute the following, which is option three, which is to deny the applicant's appeal of the city engineer's tree violation notice and penalty calculation, finding the violation and the underlying penalty calculation to be correct. Pursuant to section 48-98 sub one, council authorizes the $4,710 civil penalty to be satisfied in part through replacement planting. because site conditions will not permit planting the full eight three-inch trees that would offset all 23.55 inches removed. The applicant shall plant four three-inch replacement trees in a location and variety approved by the city engineer within 90 days of this decision. THOSE FOUR TREES OFFSET 12 OF THE 23.55 INCHES REMOVED AT THE ORDINANCE RATE OF TWO 3-INCH TREES FOR EVERY SIX INCHES. UPON COMPLETION TO THE CITY ENGINEER SATISFACTION, THE CIVIL PENALTY IS REDUCED FROM $4,710 TO $2,310 REPRESENTING THE VALUE OF THE REMAINING 11.55 UNREPLACED INCHES. The $540 stump grinding and site restoration charge and the $218 after the fact permit fee are separate cost recovery items, not money damages under section 48-98 sub 1 and remain due in full. If the applicant does not complete the approved planting within 90 days, the full $4,710 civil penalty becomes due in addition to the $540 and $218 charges. Discussion of the motion to amend. Any comments? Okay. So the vote is on the motion to amend. A yay vote replaces the option four with option three. Are we all clear on what this would do? All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed?

Nay. Nay.

Okay, that motion fails two votes to three with Grigsby and Altman in favor. So now we are back to the original motion. Any further discussion of the original motion, which is option four? Okay, all those in favor of that motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion carries unanimously and option four is adopted. Thanks for all your work on this. The options were really helpful. And now the business agenda.

At 10.05.

At 10.05. Item 6.1, consideration to defer proposed ordinance 1559, alternatives to diverse housing requirement, and ordinance 1576, cleanup ordinance to change regulations for upper story residential and clarification of certain incentives until September 8th or later. Mr. Bartley.

Thank you, Mayor. Landon Bartley, Principal Planner. These two ordinances have been before you recently. For Ordinance 1559, discussing Fee and Lue and others for diverse housing was in June. And then last month in July, a public hearing for 1576, which would amend the ordinance in several ways, including requiring upper floor multifamily residential uses in some districts to receive special use approval where they currently require site plan approval. We just, staff has been working on these and seeking to update ordinance language with suggestions and motions from earlier meetings and request additional time to do so. So we're seeking deferral until September 8th or beyond.

Can I answer any more questions? Questions for staff. Let's see if there's any questions. I do have a question. Well, go ahead. If you'd like to make a motion.

Sure.

I move to defer consideration of ordinances 1559 and 1576, which are amendments to chapter 50 of the city code zoning until September 8, 2026, until the September 8, 2026 city council regular business meeting. Okay.

Motion by Meadows.

Second.

Second by Whalen. Any discussion of that motion? I do have a question. The ordinance you're going to bring to us is going to have the, it's going to implement the Staff and Planning Commission recommendation that uses in other B zones than the B3 and then the E3 and the EV will require only site plan approval, right?

We haven't had a formal motion to make that change yet. So if you want to direct staff to make that motion or to bring that language, this would be a good time to do so. That has not been made by motion in earlier meetings yet. That was a suggestion made by staff and the Planning Commission.

Excuse me. OK. So if that's the direction we want it to go in, then we would need to make amendments at the September 8th meeting to do that, right? Correct. That's my understanding. That's my understanding. Yes, sir.

All right. And you could prepare some potential motions on that, right?

can certainly prepare options uh with that language as discussed here um but that would require a formal motion to i guess adopt that language to direct that director hodges did you want to assistance i guess i want to clarify mr attorney if you don't mind uh that We haven't had a formal motion yet to direct us to make that change, the draft ordinance language.

But we're not making that change. We're asking you to prepare a motion that would make that change. That would be it.

So we could easily draft motions or alternative drafts based on conversations that I think we could include in the AIR so you could have different options for the drafts.

Do you need a motion from us or is the direction you've got sufficient?

I don't think we need a formal motion. I think we have the direction. We just need time to prepare the different drafts. That's correct.

There we go.

That's a great direction. Thank you.

If we had a motion for everything we thought, we may, like, sorry.

Yeah.

I appreciate the clarification.

Okay. Any further questions about this?

Okay.

All right, so there's been a motion to defer by Mr. Meadows and that was seconded by Mr. Whalen. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that motion carries and we are deferred to the eighth. Item 6.2, consideration of policy resolution 2026-45, a six-month extension of a six-month moratorium on acceptance of any land use applications for data centers, PR 2026-8, which was approved by council in March of 2026. The extension will allow time for draft ordinance language to follow the typical process for zoning ordinance amendments. Mr. Bartley.

Thank you, Mayor. Yes, the council approved at staff's request a six-month moratorium on data center applications in March, which will expire on September 17th unless extended. We do have an internal work group that's been working hard on this for the last few months and has some very early draft language prepared but not quite to the point of introduction. We also had reached out to several subject matter experts at MSU who were unavailable to meet with the work group over the summer. But we believe that we'll be able to discuss this with them. hopefully as soon as September. So the ordinance amendment process also takes some time. No language has yet been introduced. We hope to bring language for introduction to council potentially September. I'm more confident about October. And that process typically takes a couple months to go through. So I, instead of, although I don't think it will take us a full additional six months, I'd look a few extra months. I just don't want to be coming back to you potentially in December asking for three additional months. So that's why we're requesting additional time to complete this process, hopefully six months to do so.

Questions for staff? Mr. Meadows.

Actually for City Attorney, in the past when we've extended moratoriums, we've had moratoriums on the application or submission of rental housing applications or programs and we've received comments back from the city attorney over a period of years that say be careful about this so I just want to make sure that by extending this six months we aren't putting ourselves in some sort of position where we could be easily sued about this particular moratorium.

Based upon my knowledge, we don't have any information of anybody that would be prejudiced by this decision currently or in the immediate future. And there's also appeal options still. There's an option to contest if there is someone that pops up that we're unaware of. So there's nothing right now that we're aware of.

Okay, great. And there's also a good basis for doing this because it's not like we've been sitting on our hands doing nothing, right? In your deliberations with the subgroup, have you considered the Mason case? We've looked at Mason and many other cities inside and outside of Michigan. Because they've had some success, and it sounds like they've got some real technical expertise associated with their work. Any further discussion? All right.

I move to approve policy resolution 2026-45. which extends previously adopted policy resolution PR2026-8 for an additional six months so it shall expire on March 17th, 2027. Motion by Whalen.

Second by Meadows. Any discussion?

All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Any opposed? That motion carries, thank you. Bringing us to item 6.3, discussion of city manager search. Ms. Irwin.

Yes, thank you. So the information I shared with you in the packet this evening, working with the HR department, they reviewed the past information that we had on file, which was a bit limited, a little more limited than I would have liked to have seen. What I shared with you is kind of what they had on file from the last two city manager searches. Of course, the most recently was in 2023, which resulted in the hiring of Robert Bellman. And the search prior to that goes all the way back to 2011, when George Lohanis was promoted, actually, following the tenure of Theodore Staton, who had been with the city from 1995 until 2011. So we haven't had a lot of city manager searches in recent history. So when looking at those two, what I shared with you is information that was used for both of those searches. And kind of what you'll see is, you know, they had gone with the traditional doing an RFP for a firm to conduct the search, do the work towards that. There is information from the MML that kind of gives a timeline that they worked on, which is they're all somewhat similar, I guess, in timelines. in 2023 we had a, you know, you'll see a little bit of a variety of cost and I'm assuming costs will have gone up somewhat. But I wanted to share all this information with you and get some feedback from you and what you may be thinking. Besides what I have shared, I guess I wanted to let you all know too that I have been reaching out to just a couple of consultants that work in the area of municipal leadership, strategic planning, and doing some executive searches. And so, if we do an RFP, in addition to any of the firms that you all may suggest, I do have some in mind that I'd want to reach out specifically to try to get them to also submit information for us to consider. And as well as, besides this kind of working with whoever is chosen to help and direct them, I guess, in any other ways that we know of and maybe different city managers that are out there and looking and maybe looking for other opportunities. So we really hope to cast the search quite broadly and personally. So I wanted to get the discussion started, kind of get feedback from the five of you. So we had a little more direction in how you may see this proceeding at this point. We really haven't had an opportunity to have a discussion with the entire council about what you may have in mind. So before we proceed with anything further, really wanted to share some information about the prior searches and hear what you may have in mind.

Discussion.

This is obviously my first go through with this process. And so ideally, how many candidates are we looking to kind of have a choice from or what has been kind of really in the past? You know, we're talking seven, eight individuals, a little bit less than that. What is the what is the goal when it comes to reaching out and being able to start that process?

I'm sorry, repeat the beginning. I didn't catch the beginning of that.

Well, I'm basically asking what is our goal in regards to our candidate pool in regards to you reaching out or us reaching out and trying to get the number of people that we feel that we could start the process with?

Yeah, we'll lean on the consultants a bit on that, what's a good pool number to have. I would hope that whoever we're working with narrows down final choices to kind of bring to you all. And the final choices would probably be, I mean, it will vary, but let's say approximately four or five candidates, five candidates for all of you to consider. Prior to that, they would do vetting, whether that would be, they'll vet all of them and then probably do a little bit of a video interview themselves to kind of screen, is what I'm envisioning is most common, and then bring the final candidates to you all, with a lot of community input in there and other steps, of course.

Yeah, and that was my next question about the community input.

Yeah, I would think that we would want community. So I'm just speaking for me. You all make this decision, of course. But kind of maybe envision working with whoever does this work, community engagement, kind of development of recruitment tools. So what is the community looking for in a city manager? And so importantly, what is the council looking for in a city manager in making sure we're putting together recruitment tools that are representing our vision and what we see, or what you all see, I should say, in a city manager for the future. And then they would, then at that point, and that would probably, I assume, take two to three weeks, put that together, depending on time of year, what's happening. You know, and then the nationwide search, you know, maybe that's somewhere in the four, you know, in doing my own research, four week, five week, six week, search, and then spending a couple of weeks, of course, doing some background checks, screening, et cetera, and then hopefully bringing some candidates forward. And that also would take some time, because it would be finalist interviews, site visits, community input again. And so that would, I assume, be a few weeks.

Yeah, and then I'm sure you have a process for staff input as well with all that.

Yes. A few questions. So are we envisioning that this firm we hire will do the soup to nuts? Or is there a committee within city staff? Is there an individual on council that is also on a committee that is working day to day with the search firm on their progress?

No. I would recommend that we have the search firm do everything from soup to nuts with city support.

And then who are they reporting to? You?

And then you bring us results? I can bring it. Some of that you all may want to discuss and give me some guidance on, of course. But I certainly... I have an interest in keeping this process moving and I would be sharing all of that information with you all if it was coming through me.

You know, I guess I would be interested in the pool, not just the top five, and what the matrix of screening is. I would be interested in, I mean, some executive searches, especially for the big-name universities, they do different evaluation tools, behavioral analysis. So, like, that all needs to be part of the RFP, so these responses. So I don't think we did that before.

don't believe we did either based on the information I was able to find but again I wasn't a part of that so I can't speak to it directly

So I can send you this via email like some of the other, but I want to make sure as part of the RFP collection that there's a demonstrated national search capacity that they've delivered on, not just they claim to work nationally. And some of these firms specialize in regions of the state. and who the principal is at the firm that's going to be working with us. I mean, all of that is going to be important context for who we select outside of just pricing. And these guys can charge a lot, like up to a year's salary.

I think we've got to do it right.

At least the last firm I worked with on a hire, that was the going rate.

Further comments, Mr. Meadows?

Like Chuck, this is the first time I've gone through this. So Ted was hired just before I got elected. George was selected while I was still in the legislature. And Robert was hired just before we took office. So we're all in the same boat on this. I will say that I participated in the public review process or meetings or interviews with the last I think it was five candidates that were at the end of the Robert Bellman search that resulted in Robert being hired. They asked the public who participated in those, their opinion, who they would recommend. in going forward. So I think that's an essential component and I will say that I believe that a lot of the people who were at the microphone tonight need to be involved in this process of choosing a new city manager for the city of East Lansing and that means a healthy public either because they're on boards and commissions or because they express an interest as a citizen within the community, we have to make this process has to have a component in there. But right now, I think we're only talking about issuing an RFP for the search firm, correct?

Yes. Unless council has a different direction they want to bring to my attention.

I think we need to do that ASAP and that, you know, as I look at this, this list of four that is mentioned in your memo anyway, um, You know, I have my preferences. I probably wouldn't support the hiring.

Yeah, and I wasn't suggesting any of those. Those are just what we used last time.

I know you weren't. I'm just saying that they should still be part of the RFP process. I'm just telling you, there's a couple there that I probably wouldn't consider at this point in time. But I think it should be broadened. And there should be more and Kerry's suggestion that we make sure they are capable of doing a national search for this position is an essential component of us hiring them. So that's my view on it.

I guess my only, like the RFP response should be like a plan, like what they'll do for us, right? So it's the timeline, it's the community engagement, it's the staff engagement, it's their evaluation tools, it's their screening matrix, all that good stuff. That's what we should get in the RFP response.

We have a copy of what we used for the RFP last time. So I think we need to, if there are specific suggestions to changes, get them to her.

That was my plan.

So for my druthers, I think we should ask this search firm to do as much as we can ask them to do. including organizing community engagement and so forth. I think the process for the police chief search was pretty effective there. They did a lot of the work organizing the community engagement. And I think we also want help developing a contract that is good for the applicant and good for the city. So as much work as we can shift to the consultants as we can, I think that would be the best given that people are Busy in the city. So is the next, yeah, Ms. Doyle.

How will we be informed? Just updates, emails, council meetings? How will we find out what's going on?

I think that I will update you regularly.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next step, I guess, is we have to prove an RFP.

You do, the RFP will have to come before you. So, you know, I'll go back, get to work on that. I will consult with our human resources department, of course. And also with Gary, who we work with at the city attorney's office, I think can help us and give some assistance with putting together an RFP. And then that definitely will need to come before this body for you all to review and approve before it's issued. so in the interim if people have suggestions for what needs to be in there please send them yes if you could send them over the next week or two that would be appreciated and then when are we targeting do you think for approving an rfp i i would well the september not i i i'm not going to commit to september 8th i'd like to but i i think for i don't think i can so i'm i would want to bring it to you september 22nd okay

I am more concerned about being right than quick. Yeah, me too. I'll just echo that.

That's a February start.

I'd do it faster if I could.

Just saying, just mapping it all out.

I'm not saying there's one thing or another, just by the time someone gets through the process and they'll have to potentially move.

so the the only other comment i had was on the on the timeline the timelines in the existing rfp from issuing the rfp to closing the deadline was really tight it was like six or eight days that seems too tight for me but that's my only feedback can they yeah they want the business that doesn't exclude anybody to make it that tight

You know, it's late, I get sassy. I mean, three weeks is preferable, of course.

Well, then that would be my suggestion. I understand it.

Again, I think right is more important than quick. And also, on the record, I want to acknowledge the acting city manager and thank you for your diligence since you jumped into this role. And we're thankful that you're going to stay for the period. So thank you. Yep.

Hear, hear. Any further discussion on this item? Is that sufficient guidance?

I believe so, and you can be sure that if I feel like I need more, I will reach out to you.

Okay, and we can always put it on the eighth agenda if we need to confirm anything as a group.

Yes.

Okay, that brings us to item seven, adjournment. Is there a motion? So moved. Moved by Singh, second by Whalen. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? We are adjourned at 10.30 p.m.