Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

Oh, you're a renter. Yep. Pass this on. Don't get distracted by your

Yeah. I'm ready.

I have to close this.

Right when we're gonna start the meeting, they hand me the cookies.

Show us your best cookies. Come

on. All all sides. Alright. Good evening, everybody. Today is Wednesday, 06/04/2025, and I'm calling to order the city of Waukesha Landmarks Commission meeting. We shall start with roll call to the left with Marty.

Marty Larson.

Julie Scarpaji.

Jennifer Wall. Carmen De La Paz.

Aaron Spencer.

Mike Christine. Matt Retzak.

Here's two kinds.

And I shall note that today is Jennifer's last meeting. I will say more appropriate words to the end, but Thank you. Let's make it painless for her. So I'd like to start with any public comment.

Hello. Lisa Salve. 434 Madison Street. I have some information. I received an email with the information from the keeper, their their response, so I wanted to read that to you.

I just wanted to do a little bit of background, for those that may have not been here. This had all started in the 2024. The city had submitted for a decrease of the historic Blair property. The Landmarks Commission was not told about that. In July 2024, it was then requested of the Landmarks Commission that they waive the requirement for the sixty day historic preservation commission notice of a proposed boundary decrease.

So the application had been sent in, and that was signed by Charlie. And, the cover letter sheet for July, said that the nomination would need to be reviewed, just like in addition to the National Register by the State Historic Preservation Review Board. The cover sheet also said that that review board meets quarterly. It has two meetings remaining, this year, so this was 07/10/2024 on August 23, November 15, in order to provide certainty for the developer and for the plan commission and counsel during the development review process. Staff would very much prefer to have it reviewed at the August meeting.

And so it was voted on and decided that the commissioners were not going to waive that right, and so that moved on a little bit forward. That takes us then to December 2024. The Landmarks Commission voted to draft an opposition letter to the latest boundary decrease application, which had been repair prepared and submitted by the outside source on behalf of the city. In February 2025, the Landmarks Commission voted to approve that opposition letter, and this was per code, the local, historic preservation commission shall prepare a report. And you were provided information from Jason Tiff that said, the rules are distilled down to this.

When a certified local government gets a draft nomination for a property in their jurisdiction, the Historic Preservation Commission is required to review the nomination and write an opinion or the report of whether the property meets the criteria for the inclusion in the National Register. That opinion, the report must be sent to the SHPO. So and that's exactly what you guys did. You wrote your response, and it was sent to the SHPO, but it did not agree with the city's desired decrease. The decrease was denied at the state review board level in May, and then the mayor appealed to the keeper at the national letter level.

Excuse me. National level. And so then last month, Charlie had some comments for you. He said, I began the Landmarks Commission's letter has been forwarded to the keeper of the National Register. Your statement on the project has been heard.

But then he went on to say, and all of you need to recognize you are created by the council to advise the council and to make decisions on historic preservation. And I believe that's exactly what you did. But you were told there's a limit to the amount of activism that you can do and that the Landmarks Commission has up to this point gone right up to that limit, and any further statements would cross the line. And that they didn't wanna see any further harm done to the Landmarks Commission standing with the city. I just wanted to reiterate that you guys did exactly what you were supposed to do, and I commend you for that.

This is the letter, that we received with the statements. I won't read the whole thing, but this was the summary. The National Register of Historic Places has reviewed the submitted documentation and notes two issues. Number one, I'll just say that NRHP finds that while the parking lot may lack association with senator Blair, the land on which the parking lot was constructed is part of the historic Blair family property that was deeded to the city of Waukesha by the senator's son, Henry, upon his death in 1957 as stated in his will, and then they cite where that's located. Therefore, the land is associated with senator Blair and the listed residential property during the period of significance.

And number two, the NRHP finds that the integrity of the Blair House property has not changed since 1983 listing. The parking lot at the bottom of the bluff facing Delafield Street, formerly Spring Street, was in place at the time of the listing and did not negatively affect the eligibility of the property then. It does not do so now. Importantly, the portion of the grassy slopey bluff that is currently owned by the city of Waukesha, west of the retaining wall of Lot 1, is a character defining feature of the hilltop property. Senator Blair likely selected this land for his home site because of its visual prominence and commanding views of the city.

We therefore find that the information provided does not adequately document a lack of integrity of the parcel that is proposed to be removed from the listed boundary. For the two reasons noted above, the National Register of Historic Place boundary of the Blair House remains as listed. The mere fact that the single parcel listed in 1983 has since been subdivided into two lots and now has different owners has no bearing on the listed property's integrity nor its historic associations and therefore has no bearing on its eligibility. So I want to say to you congratulations. You should be commended on doing your job and on doing it well.

Thank you.

Thank you. Any other public comments today? Great. So we're gonna move on for approval of minutes and I'm looking for a motion.

I motion to approve. I second that motion.

Do you wanna take a voice vote on that? Okay.

Aye.

Abstain. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Meeting minutes for May 7 have been approved. That's item 25Dash00804. And we're moving on to Landmarks Commission paint and repair grant funds, and Charlie is going to give us a recap.

Alright. As you know, paint repair grants are typically approved in an ascending scale of roughly, 15% of the cost of a project up to a maximum of $3,000. The Landmark Commission may use discretion to change award amounts based on project scope, overall impact, fund availability, or any other circumstances. We do finally have confirmation of the fund amount that the city will be receiving for this year. It was less than what was initially the the overall fund was less than what was initially approved.

But luckily, the Public Works Department was willing to take a reduced amount for their projects. So the amount that was allocated for paint repair grants was not impacted at all. So we do still have $25,000 available. We do have $350 left over from incomplete twenty twenty four projects. That's down from last month.

It was about $2,800 But one of the two projects that had been left over was completed. So we're still waiting for that last one, which was a $350 grant. So again, you have $25,000 available. And we have a number of paint repair grants on the agenda tonight, including a couple that were submitted earlier in the year that we weren't able to review until now. One thing to note that's new for this year, you'll need to make the approvals conditional on approval by Waukesha County and the SHPO compliance.

It's this is basically we have to compile a a report showing that it's not that any house that gets federal grant money isn't within a wetland or a flood plain or close to an airport. None of them are, but we have to send it in before they can approve it. And then the SHPO has to review it to make sure that it's not having an adverse effect, which that's what your review is for. So it should be a formality, but they've told us they want it ahead of time rather than before the grants are sent out rather than in the past. I've typically done it in a slow period in February. So

So that means more work for you. Right? Yes.

Okay. Faster.

Right. Right at the busy time of year.

Right. Exactly. Alrighty. Well, thank you. Nice to hear that we can give away some money. So we're moving on to old business. Item number 25Dash00794, Landmark Commission Certificate of Appropriateness for 301 Windsor Drive. And this is a review we're going to review a request to replace the roof, two windows, and a tuck point, the siding. And this is the Cables Park Historic District, and it was here. The same property was brought before us on May 7, and we held. And you can bring us up to speed, Charlie.

Alright. So this is as you'll remember, this is 301 Windsor Drive. It's at the corner of Windsor Drive in South South Charles Street, and it's in the Caples Park Historic District. And it's the Cahill House, which was built in 1928 and has English revival style architecture. This is a photo from the sidewalks.

You can see it's set back quite a ways from from Windsor. The applicant wants to do a number of different things, including tuckpointing the masonry, but also replacing the basement two basement windows. So a number of the other windows on the house have been replaced in the past, and these are two that have not. So both of them are in window wells. So there's you can see that one.

Here's a little bit of a close-up. You can see it's got a white frame with the divisions. And then second window on the east side, also in a window well. This is also from the sidewalk along South Charles Street. So it's much closer, but as you can see, it's even less visibility because the sidewalk is at a lower level than the yard.

So you can't really see into the window well. I had to go up onto their onto the lawn to get this photo. So the windows have very little visibility. The Abbego would like to replace them with Seaway Commander casement windows, which are vinyl windows. They have noted that he will be trying to match the windows on the house as closely as possible.

But they are a somewhat different window, and he's hoping for some flexibility since they have such limited visibility. He'd also like to replace the roof. So here's a close-up photo of the roof. As you can see, it's brown, probably architectural shingles. And he had noted that on the submission, he had noted true definition duration designer win shingles.

Typically, the Landmarks commission guidelines would call for regular true definition duration shingles. So just as a couple of examples, he wasn't 100% sure what when I talked to him what what color he wanted to go with. But so I gave just have a couple of samples of these are this is a brown one color, which is the regular duration, and then bourbon color was the closest match that I could find out of the duration designer. I believe the applicant is here. He had told me that he's willing to be pretty flexible as far as what shingles are most appropriate.

And he had also he had said that yeah, he had, was willing to be very flexible on that. So again, there's the estimate for that. It does note Corning Duration Designer. It does not note the particular color. So again, they'll be replacing the basement windows.

The proposed windows are Seaway Commander casement windows. Replacing the roof, proposed shingles are Owens Corning Duration Designer and tuck pointing the masonry sections. The new mortar needs to match the hardness and texture of the existing mortar and must match the colors closely as possible. And then just to note, he had noted on the application that he was interested in applying for historic preservation tax credits. So if it's approved as is, the Landmark Commission should determine whether, he has to come back if, he's required to make any changes in order to get the tax credits.

Thank you. Is the owner here? Hi. Come on up please, if you don't mind. So we can have a conversation with you if need so. And you just need to state your name and your address and this is for the record of the recording.

Sure. It's Rudy Aucilla in 301 Windsor Drive, Waukesha.

Thank you.

Mhmm. Welcome. Yeah. You.

Do you have anything to add to what Charlie has already shared with us?

No. I believe he he covered everything. Yep.

He's usually pretty good at it.

He's good. Yeah.

Yeah. He's

good. Yep. Anybody have any questions from up here?

Roof color.

Roof color. Let's talk about the roof color.

I I guess the you know, in that designer series I mean, I've seen these shingles up on roofs before. They have a very busy appearance with all the different colors that are mixed in. I don't know if you can go back to those trailer or not. The I mean, I I think that first brown was probably the the least busy. But, I mean, if I don't know if it's a price difference or longevity difference, but that duration versus the the duration designer seems to be a a much less kind of busy pattern to it.

Brownwood, yeah.

This one was the duration. The other one was the designer.

Oh, okay. Yeah. And when I think I mean, that, you know, that would closely mimic a close closely as available mimic kind of the, you know, the cedar shingle type that was probably on the house originally when it was built.

So Matt, quick question for you. We want the shingle to match almost as close to what it is right now.

Sure.

Essentially, that's what we're looking for. Okay. Yeah. Because I was looking at different calls and I think that was the closest one that we are able to come up with.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's I think the most favorable out of those choices.

The brown wood.

Mean, consider it colonial we consider it colonial state, but I was had different variations, different colors on the shingles. So

Yeah. I mean, that given that that other bourbon one that, you know, has a lot of I've seen that on on roofs, and there's a lot of lot of pop, a lot of variation.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. I'd I'd I'd second that. The Although there is a gradation of color, it's not quite so so pronounced.

Right.

And I think that quite frankly for the style of your home, that's what best suits it.

Mhmm.

To go with the other more contrasting, almost tertiary thing going on is is it would be too much.

Okay.

For style.

Sure.

And so I think what we're saying is that we'd really love to see that be the shingle.

Mhmm.

And and honestly, an architectural perspective and a design perspective, it will suit your home better. Sure. My question to the commissioners is how do you guys feel about him doing single pane as opposed to the rest of the house being paned in that those lower windows that you really won't tell? I'm I'm willing to stretch on the vinyl and not wood because of where they're located because it's just a really compromised place for water and moisture. But I just wanna get your opinion on that.

Thank you. Last time we talked about this and we're very happy you're here today to answer some of these questions. I agree since it's mostly below grade and the one side of the house is in the shade all the time. So the vinyl, I'm fine with that. We were just hoping based on our last last month's discussion was having the same color. I personally like the darker one. Yes. The windows are white, but I guess I have no preference. The white would match the windows already there. I'm fine with the vinyl, but I'm also I prefer the darker ones based on they're surrounded by the brick and not so much other accent other than the grass. I

would agree with that. I mean, I know vinyl is typically, you know, white, white or white, but if there was a darker color that, you know, mimic that one in the front, It just does kinda disappear more rather than, you know, pop out at you. That contrast doesn't exist.

Because really what we're seeing of white in your windows is the storm window that's covering the window, right? Because your windows are really brown under that.

Yes, yeah. And what I'm aiming for is consistency across the whole house because all the windows are the same color except those two are brown. And in addition to that, those two windows, there's a lot of air fluctuating through there. So these windows are going to be more energy efficient.

Charlie, can you just go back to that other picture that you had? So the windows really are white with the brown

So it's not that one there, the one you're looking at. It's the one that is being replaced, the one that you saw by Aunt Charles.

Yeah.

And the other one on this side is more further to the right of the house. Right here. Yeah. To the if you look to the right of that circle Yeah. There's some bushes right there.

It's behind the bushes? Correct.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. And that's where the laundry room is and we have little funnel right there escaping all the air.

Alright.

But you almost cannot see that window, essentially.

Yeah. We can't see it at all. So, Charlie, give me a close-up again of the one where the circle is. You see how the framing around it is white? I guess it's the mortar or whatever they put around it. Mhmm. And then the window's white, which that's what's making it stand out. I'm just pointing this out because that's what I'm picking at. I'm picking at that I would love to see brown with the white and then I'm cool. Think that the white window would be fine. But I don't think you could paint that. So not for a very long time anyway. Ideas? Suggestions?

Thank you. So the one that's on the screen right now, that window was replaced in a modern era. I'm assuming that's why Okay. You're So I'm Mhmm. I guess I would be fine with the white one behind the bushes since we can't even see it. But, again, I stated the brown one. But since you already have a white one already there, we must have approved a white one at some point in time if it came before us. So I'd be fine with a white one there and then have the the darker one or darker shade with the other one that was first seen today.

Well, I don't think he's gonna find a a dark in that window.

Wait. Are you suggesting a darker shade for for the other window, you're saying?

Only because the darker shade was already there. And if you look at the other windows, they are predominantly brown. It

it's really just the trim is brown, but the actual windows all the way around the house are white, which is what I was asking. So I'm I'm okay with it being white because if you look at the window right above it, it's white. All the other windows are white. What's deceiving is the little wood trim around it that makes it look brown.

Thank you. I'm fine with all white windows based on all the comment already, and it's going to be more affordable and because that's what's going to be in stock in most stores where we're able to choose to get these from.

Thank you. Anybody else have any comments? Okay. I'm looking for a motion.

Yeah. You should do it.

I will. I forgot the name of that shingle color already. Brown Brownwood? Was it brown wood brown wood

on that

Yes. Brown wood. Brown. Mhmm.

Okay. I'd make a motion to approve number 2500794 using the proposed brown wood shingle and the white vinyl windows that will be mostly below grade and hidden behind the bushes. And matching any tucked porting would be a a matching color and hardness to the existing mortar. Yes, ma'am.

Great. I'll second that.

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Yes. Aye.

You've been approved. Enjoy your home.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. We all love that house. Okay. We're moving on to new business. Number 25 Dash 00984 Landmarks Commission consultation for 517 Madison Street. We're gonna review a proposal to repaint the house, Madison Street Historic District.

Alright. 517 Madison Street is at the corner of Madison And 3rd Street. It's on the Southwest Side of Madison Street in the Madison Street Historic District. And it's the Captain Elihu Enos House, which was built in 1885, and it has Queen Anne style architecture. Captain Enos was a a civil war veteran and the first county superintendent of schools.

And this is a it's on the agenda as a consultation. This basically, all they're asking to do is is repaint the existing painted wood. So it certainly is appropriate to comment, but most likely not to obviously, the Landmark Commission is not you guys don't comment on paint colors. So they are they would like to, again, paint all the wood siding. The house currently has five paint colors, and they'd like to maintain the same colors.

So it's the predominant yellow. And then it looks like three or two different shades for the trim of blue along with the darker blue and kind of a tan color for the shingles and then the porch. So they've provided some pictures of areas where the paint repainting is needed. And this was submitted initially in January. We didn't put it on an agenda because it was basically just for the paint repair grant, and they didn't necessarily need Landmark's approval for the painting itself.

So the cost but they have not done the work yet. So the work is expected to start this month. So the cost estimate that they had was $19,500 and they have confirmed that that's still accurate. So again, they're repainting the house. The colors will match existing colors, and this is a consultation and then banner pair grant.

Thank you. Is the owner here today? Nobody's here. So we can't consult with people who aren't here, right?

Right.

So we're gonna hold it till next week, next meeting, right?

That would be a decision that you could make.

Well I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to approve it, but I'm not willing to give money until we hear from them. You know, I mean, see them. I think that's fair. Yes?

It is.

So I'll take a motion for approval of the paint. And I would like to ask the homeowners to be here for their paint and repair grant distribution. I think it's a great house. If they were here, they'd get the money, but it would be nice for them to be here. So I'm looking for a motion on this one. Please.

I'll make a motion, and I'll comment after a second on 25Dash00794.

I will second that motion.

Alright. My comments are since the biggest statement is they've gone through the colors and exactly gonna match painting like for like us. So I have no problem with, like the chairperson said, it's just been nice to have them here because we'd probably say how nice their house is too, but

that's my time.

The standard we've kinda had. You know? Yeah.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

Great. So you'll speak with them, Charlie?

Yep.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Moving on to 25Dash00979 Landmark Commission Paint and Repair Grant for 311 McCall Street. Review a grant review a grant request for previously approved roof replacement work. And this is McCall Street Historic District.

Alright.

This is so 311 McCall Street is on the South side of McCall Street. It's one of several extremely narrow lots right in between McCall And Charles Street. And this is the Charles H. Howard House, which was built in 1890 and has front cabled architecture. And as you might remember, a certificate of appropriateness was approved in March for replacing the roof.

So that's the roof previous to the replacement. The cost was $17,300 And again, it was so it was already approved. They're replacing the roof, the Atlas Pinnacle impact colored with a pewter color, and they're adding black flashing and other waterproofing. So at this point, we're just looking for the paint repair grant. And on these ones where they had come in, I had advised them that they didn't need to come in a second time for the paint repair grants.

So we do have the paint repair grant estimate, the guidelines there with the note that it should be conditional on county and SHPO approval. And then also just a list of since we have a number of them on the agenda, if you went with the 15% or if you went with the 20% of the cost, those are what would be the general amounts, just mostly to note that there would still be money available. So

I'm going to go conservative with the 15% just because our money is going so fast, it's already gone. And I'd love to see how far we can stretch it and have as many people as possible get something. So I'm gonna suggest to the commissioners that we kinda stick to the 15% so that we can just stretch it out into the season because we're gonna have a big chunk of it gone tonight.

I agree with Carmen, and I'm also looking at the fact that we have used $3,000 as a maximum grant. So I would move that we give this project a $3,000 grant. Oh, sorry. This is 311 McCall Street. A $25.95 grant. Sorry. I was looking at the next one. I'll second that.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye. Right.

Yeah. You're right. Okay. So we approve a paint repair grant of $25.09 5. Moving on to 2500980 Landmarks Commission paint repair grant for 242 North Hartwell. We're gonna review a grant request for previously approved gutter replacement work.

Alright. So this is 242 North Hartwell. This is at the corner of McCall Street and Hartwell Avenue in the McCall Street Historic District. And this is the Michael and Jane McCoy house, which was built in 1928 and has Prairie School style architecture. And as you remember, this is actually they had gutter repair work approved this time last year, and they did part of it, and then they did the remainder of the house or they got approval for the remainder of their house in April.

I don't believe the work's been done yet. Basically, they're repairing the built in gutters and then adding copper flashing as waterproofing there. So that's the section that had been done already, and they were looking for approval at that time, and they received approval for the remainder. The cost estimate for the work for the remainder of the work, the work that they're doing this year is $27,150 So again, it was approved in April. And then on here, noting I did have it highlighted because it's above the maximums that had been established of $3,000 And when you were doing the 20% grants of $4,000 So that would be one that most likely would be at that maximum.

The $3,000

Right.

Great. Any thoughts, comments?

Yep. I agree. I would move that we give this project a $3,000 paint and repair grant.

I second that. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Great. We've approved $3,000 for two four two North Hartwell Avenue. Thank you. Thank you.

Bucked in and

perfect time

for That's the way to do it. Right? Alright. Number 25Dash00805, the Landmarks Commission certificate of appropriateness for 305 McCall Street. And we're gonna review a request to repair several leaks and add a new waterproofing system. This is the McCall Street Historic District.

Alright.

So this is 305 McCall Street. It's about it's just two houses to the west of 311, which you had just seen. So it's in between Charles And James Streets on the South Side of McCall, in the McCall Street Historic District. And it is the Margaret Breeze Vincent and George Vincent House, which was built in 1895 and has Queen Anne style architecture. And you can see the existing roof as kind of a brown gray with either the architectural it looks like the architectural shingles.

And there are a number of leaks, most likely, the applicant believes, most likely surrounding the chimney. So she'd like to have those repaired. Specifically, the chimney flashing, she'd like to add new brown flashing. And then she'd also like to add so these are the photos of the leaks. She'd like to add what's called a CERECADE roof protection system, which is apparently a nano chemical that a natural chemical that's applied to the roof and adds protection to it and reduces the damage that it would receive over time.

This is a photo that the company had on its website. The left is before and the right is after. So it does give the roof sort of a flatter, less dimensional appearance. Here's another one. The left is before and the right is after.

Landmark Commission's responsibility would mostly be, is the appearance appropriate? And obviously, this is something that you haven't seen before. So I had talked to somebody at the company that's that would be doing the work. And they told me in cases where they have applied it, it is still clear that there are that these floors might not necessarily do it justice. Still clear that there are shingles there.

You can see the shingles. It's just not as distinctive the colors. So it's basically more of a closer to like a three tab look than a dimensional shingle. And they would the color that they would be using is dark brown. So it would be sort of a more solid dark brown color. And the applicant may not have been able to be here. She said she had contacted me earlier today and said she had a medical issue, so she might not be able to make it.

Can I see the house again? Specifically the roof.

Matt or Aaron, do you have any experience with this?

No.

Just taking a look at it, can you bring up the chimney again, please? Just looking at the mortar there, I think you have far more problems than just the flashing itself and the shingles. It's kind of an obvious look there. I think we can all see it. Not really sure how to proceed on this because I don't think the solution that's been presented today is the total solution to fixing this problem of leaking.

So What are our thoughts as far as the color and we're going to change it to a much darker color. We like trying to keep it original. What is the commission? We'll start there. How do we feel about that?

Any thoughts?

It's hard to say because the example picture that we got is such a light color. It's gray. Yeah. It doesn't is that what it's going to look like?

It would be a dark brown.

Dark brown.

Yeah. Well, that

And the the view from above, I mean, it's really hard to tell what that, you know, human perspective is gonna look like down on the ground looking at the house. Yeah. That context really is kinda meaningless unless you're in a drone or standing on the roof. It's hard to tell if it looks like a painted roof or real shingles yet.

That and I know one of our standards is the shadowing was a large deal and that is going to completely eliminate that.

So I guess on that, the standard is that three tap shingles are generally considered to be acceptable. It's just that nobody ever wants to do them because they're not they don't last as long as the architectural shingles. So we don't really ever see those. But that's recommendation from the state that's in the design guidelines is does say either three tab or dimensional shingles with a slight shadow line.

Okay. Yeah. I don't have a problem with the color. I've driven by this house and there's so many trees and because it's up higher, you you just don't get to see that much of the roof when there's leaves.

Right.

So

It's gonna solve her problem. I hate to say no to it. Just I can't believe we've never heard of this before.

I've I've heard of the the technique.

You

have. It's just to extend the life of the shingle that's there. You know? But you're basically buying a warranty.

Mhmm. Right.

For somebody who doesn't have the money to do

the whole To do the project. Right.

Well, a) I think that I agree with Jennifer. We're here to advocate for people trying to get longevity and stretch their buck. And, you know, I I don't have a problem with that. I do agree with Aaron. I think the chimney has more tuck pointing and other issues, but that's not my consultation. You just might want to suggest that they go deeper into it because I'm not gonna, you know, but it's obvious that it's more than that. And so really I guess we just have to put it up for vote. Right? And I'll take a motion if anybody is not strongly opposed.

I motion to approve the ID number 25805 for the roof treatment and flashing.

I second.

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

No. No. Aye.

That's been approved. I'm sorry?

You're put over the paint and repair grant that she's out here?

Yeah. Did you tell her that she had to be here for the paint and repair grant? Or

I I did not tell her that, but it sounds like she had a medical issue that I said, if you can be here, if at all possible, I would strongly recommend it. But

Does this qualify for a paint repair grant?

I don't know.

I'm asking Charlie, does it technically

A roof treatment?

That's up to you guys. Really the only qualification is, does it work on a residence and is it in the low to moderate income census tracks and this qualifies. It's up to you to determine whether you feel that the work would qualify.

The homeowner of the one that we just passed, I'm not sure on this committee, but usually if it's not unanimous on a committee, it's it's approved, but it still has to go to common council to get approval for that. I just wanted the homeowner to know that it may have to go to common council to get voted on since it wasn't unanimous?

I don't know anything about that.

The landmark submission approvals don't go to council unless it's denied and they appeal. So

Thank you. I just didn't want the homeowner to, like, oh, I can do this and then. Right. I've been told no. I was just hoping for some clarification and you've done that. Thank you very much. Sure.

Matt, did you want to expand on that, like what your thoughts were on the repair grant? Sure.

Yeah. I mean, to me, this it's it's a cleaning. It's a it's a comparable to a pressure wash to a to a to a maintenance, not necessarily, you know, upkeep by removing and replacing materials. Yep. In my opinion.

I I agree. I do. Anybody else have any thoughts?

Well, I mean, obviously, if they're changing out the flashing, that is normally would be approved.

You're right. The flashing is a is a change. I mean, if they wanna break

it out with the flashing is so

Yeah. I mean, that's

think she can go

over till next month and give her the opportunity to come in and make her case.

There you go.

That's what we're gonna do. We will bench it till next month. Moving on. 25Dash00943, Landmarks Commission certificate of appropriateness for 134 West Laughlin Avenue. We're gonna review a request to replace the front and rear porches. This is the Laughlin Avenue Historic District.

Alright. This is 132 And 134 West Laughlin Avenue. This is the it's on the North Side of Laughlin Avenue in the Laughlin Avenue Historic District in between Garfield and East. And so it's kind of on the eastern edge of that historic district. It's the Frank and Julie Stockinger House.

Julie Stockinger is the current owner, not the original owner. The house was built in 1900 and has Queen Anne style architecture. And it was divided into two units by a previous owner, but is currently occupied as a single family home. And she would like to replace the both the front and the rear porch. As you can see, the front porch is a nonhistoric concrete porch with a metal railing.

So she would like to add a new wood porch that would go right over that and then a new colonial style railing as well. So it would again, would go right over the concrete, and then it will be anchored into the ground with helical piers and flashed to the house. So here's another angle of the front. And then on the side or on the rear, as you can see, there are two rear exits at the stoop porches on the right side and that she would like to replace that as well. That will be another wood porch that again will be anchored and then flashed to the house.

And it will be designed to look similar to the existing one. But she would like to for the rear porch, she would like to use composite flooring that will hold up better and not need to be repainted every year. So that's just for the decking. It will be wood on the sides. And again, on the rear, that will be there's no visibility at all from Laughlin Avenue and very limited from any public location.

So again, that's replacing the front and rear porches. And the front porch will be built over the existing concrete stoop. The rear stoop will be removed and replaced, and that will be replaced with a composite decking and then wood for the rest of it. And building permit will be required for the replacement of the porches.

Is the homeowner here? Hi. Please join us. If you could state your name and your address, please. Hi

there. I am Julie Stockinger of 134 West Laughlin.

Hi. Welcome. Thanks. What color is gonna be your composite wood that you're gonna be? Well,

it can't be green, which I would like it to be. Yep. So I'm thinking, I don't know if you can notice, I I do have a a brick patio there. And I was thinking that if if the composite could come as close to that brick color as possible, that might be my best option at this point because I've looked into it. I've gone to a few different places looking at composites, and I haven't found anything that I think would work. I'm open to suggestions. No.

That's why I'm asking. I've used it a ton, and you're never gonna find it in that shape.

I went to Zurn. I think I went to places that should have had a good color realm, but they that's I couldn't come up with anything. Mhmm. So I'm thinking that it it maybe if it matched the brick, it it would at least pull it all together.

Would you do the same thing? Pull that into the front too the same way? Or you

I think she was doing the front in wood.

But and now you're gonna do the front in wood with the green? Or Yes. I'm just trying to visualize.

Yes. Yes. So the front would the front would look more like the existing porch and the back did look. I have two dogs and they have totally destroyed the paint job on the back which is why I wanna use a composite on there. But the front wouldn't have that

problem. So you're gonna go with the green on the front?

Yes.

The green with the white accent. And then on the back porch, are you gonna keep the spindles and the handrail and all that the same

I would love to.

Okay.

I I really and I think that looks beautiful. Mhmm. I would like to see something similar on the front as well.

Great.

But the wrought iron is yeah. I painted it white so you wouldn't know that it was wrought iron, but it didn't work.

A question I have, are they gonna require that railing on the other side too?

Well, I have thought of that, which would mean that the porch would move over a bit. The back porch you're talking about?

Right. Yeah. I'm just wondering if the city is gonna make you have

I don't know that I don't yet. But I

think they will. Yeah. Anything anything above two feet, you need a railing two feet in height. But

if in fact I did, the porch would move over so that the door doesn't hit the railing.

It needs to get a little wider. Excuse me? It just needs to get a little wider. Yes. It looks like there's room before that.

Yes. And there is room and I I did think of that.

So It'll look balanced too. Centered onto the door.

Yeah. My my husband built this this back porch a long time ago and he's an artist, not an architect.

But That's my problem.

He did his best.

But it's,

you know, for now, not so much.

So that's not the original porch is what you're telling us?

Oh, no. When well, actually when we bought the house, it didn't have a porch. You walked out the back door and you were immediately on a step up cement steps. It somebody had I don't know. The previous owners had did not have a porch.

Okay.

We added that for safety. Right. You know, because you can't open a door and be on the steps right away. That's just

So you're gonna make an effort then to match the existing railing for both sides of the back porch as well as the front porch?

Oh, yes.

Excellent.

And I went around town and and like took some pictures of other ones that I saw that were similar including the oh gosh, where the house that's anyway, I can't think of the address. That's fair. It's close to the Fox River. It's on it's right on the corner.

The Buckley House?

Yes. I took a picture of their railing because they they have new railings on there, and I I liked how they looked.

Mhmm. So Yep.

Because I was looking around to see if it was even possible anymore to get, you know, the kind of railings that I wanted.

Oh, absolutely. Okay. You can, for sure. Does anybody have any other questions?

Nope. I have one more thing I wanna add. Actually, it's just kind of suggestion. It's completely up to you if you wanna do that. On the front porch, considering that you are gonna be building over those concrete steps.

Concrete has a tendency to hold a lot of moisture. So if you put wood right on top of that concrete, it's going to create that barrier where it's going to expand, contract, hold ice, so on and so forth. Suggestion I make for you is if you would actually be able to put some of that composite on those stairs to the deck that's going to be all wood. I mean, I'm not telling you to change your front porch to wood, but anything that's in connection with that concrete, try to make that composite. Otherwise, you're gonna end up riding out that porch before you know it. Just a suggestion.

My contractor is here, so I just Come on up.

Yeah. Think there's a a good time here to be a point of clarification. My name is Will Nurse, 430 Hill Street, Heartland. Hi. And I'm really excited about helping Julie with you can see the need for the new front porch here in the photo. Her her design is to extend it to the end of the house, and that would allow us then to get a break from the a thermal break from the concrete below.

Perfect.

But the decking in the front is actually prescribed to be tongue and groove dug fur. So it'll be a solid, typical of the era of the house, and then that'll carry on to the stairs that will then extend all the way just past. You see the extended last step there. And so that's where our building permit will come in and our peers that need to go in to support the railing. We have confidence in the final step, being able to bear the deck itself when we come down because it's already on an existing frost footing. But that also then opens that area up for, like, what the gentleman was saying that we have a thermal break. We don't have any buildup of water, frost heaving, or anything like that from underneath that would affect the structure.

Thank you.

So you're gonna bring the porch out to where appears it was to start with.

Is that right?

Yeah. Exactly. You can see where it was kinda designed to come out. Then so you can see we're gonna lose about one row of siding that we'll be able to counter flash then out to the corner because we'll bring it up to just under the threshold of the existing door. So we'll get away with awkward little, you know, awkward step out, and it'll make it much more comfortable for ingress, egress.

So then the steps will basically be over the area where the stoop currently is.

Correct. Is that right? Yep. And then on the sides, we're still in the air. We're we're open to suggestions. I like board batten in these situations. It's much more secure. It's longevity. The lattice, I know, is really typical and used a lot, but in my experience, that just builds job security for me later. Yeah. And that could replace it. You know Board

and batten for the back?

It would be on the side because you will see some of the step come down. So we'd have a trim board that'll all terminate, you know, a batter board as it were, and it would all terminate into that and and be elegant. And then these are some very important bushes to Julie, so we have to protect the plantings on the sides. So

Does that plot get covered up?

Not all of it. We would have a skirt board, you know, that would be separated there to allow again for any drainage that need to be done. But we do wanna just maintain the white line that you see of that water table.

Sure.

And we take that all the way out until it connects to where the board batten makes more sense to drop down.

I'm just thinking, does that board and batten want to continue underneath that water table and cover up the block? I mean, you can see where the original foundation is with that split face

But

how does that really look with the steps and covering up, you know, the underside and back to block and then back to stone, you know, is there just one too many things going on there?

Yeah. I mean, I thought the same thing, but then if you look back, then back at the back wall, back door, there's some more exposed. You'd wanna put a little bit more there. So it just keeps going and going and going.

In my experience, if we're gonna try to secure that block with materials, it doesn't have a great endgame. You know, we're hammer drilling and tapconning material on, and eventually, that's just gonna trap. We should allow the masonry to be the masonry, and we'll just do our best to create the continue the architectural lines all the way to the ground. Have you done a drawing? Steps to the ground. I'm sorry?

Have you done a drawing of what you're proposing?

I've not. I mean, I've done shop drawings, so I know how to do the takeoff. Uh-huh. I don't have those with me, but I'm gonna have to produce drawings now that we know we're gonna get approval because we'll go before the city and we can certainly make those available. It's no CAD cam. I'm an analog guy. I hand draw everything.

We're pretty good at picturing things, but it would be nice to see Sure. Absolutely.

The drawings.

I understand. But, yeah. And then the scale of the railing, I didn't think we'd be as big if you notice the size of the newel posts in the back. Those are four inch newel posts. And so, again, they're very important to Julie as her husband did it. So we're gonna try to reuse and maintain some of that, but that particular turning isn't really available. So we're gonna be as close as we can to be architecturally accurate.

Good. Perfect. Anybody else any more questions?

Thank you everyone.

You. Thank so much. Thank you. We're gonna I'm looking for a motion on this and then we'll vote.

I would move that, we approve the COA for, number 2500982For134WestLaughlin as presented with the understanding that the railings will duplicate the back railing as closely as possible and match on both sides of the house.

I'll second.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

Great. You've been approved. Thank you so much. It was smart to bring your contractor. Yep. We're gonna move on to 2500982 Landmarks Commission Paint and Repair Grant for 134 West Laughlin Avenue.

So the total estimated cost of the project on that one is $13,137 So this is in here what I have here, the 11,000. So it's, yeah, $13,137 That's correct on this page for that estimate.

Thoughts? Well, sticking with the 15% that we awarded for the other project, I would move that we give this project a paint and repair grant of $1,971. Let's not do pennies.

I'll second. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Sorry.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

Great. You've been approved $1,971 on a paint repair grant pending the preliminary approval that Charlie's going to have to do. Moving on to Landmarks 25Dash953, Landmark Submission Certificate of Appropriateness for 202 West College Avenue. We're gonna review a request to replace the siding. This is the College Avenue Historic District.

Alright. 202 West College Avenue is at the intersection of College Avenue and Barstow Street. It's in the College Avenue Historic District, and it's right adjacent to the Carroll University campus. And it was formerly a Carroll University building that they've recently sold to the current property owner. It was built in 1927 and has colonial revival and Georgian revival style architecture.

And applicants, when they purchased the house as part of their home inspection, they discovered that the existing wood siding is in very rough shape, and they've been recommended to replace it completely. So they've provided some photos. You can just see there's a couple of photos of the sides of the house, front and the rear. And then they have some close ups just showing different spaces where there's rot on the front corner boards and on the higher second story siding, some other sections at the top of the bump out, also along the windows and at ground level and above the entrance. Some of the soffits and fascia as well.

And there's sections of what looks like the garage. So there's rot pretty much all over. And again, they've been recommended to fully replace the siding. They don't believe they can really save any of it. So they would like to replace it with LP SmartSide lab siding.

They believe it's they've stated that replacing it with wood would be cost prohibitive and also would require significant maintenance going forward. And they are they have noted that they're planning to use the brush smooth texture. So this is the sample photo for that brush smooth for both the siding and the trim. They also plan to match all of the existing dimensions and trim of the existing siding. So this is just for contrast, this is the lab siding without that brush smooth where it has the false wood texture, and that's something that the Landmark Commission design guidelines recommend against just because that does not that doesn't actually look like wood.

So this has a much closer look to actual wood siding. So again, they'd like to replace the remove the existing wood siding and replace it with LP SmartSide. And then they've noted that the new siding will match the existing as closely as possible inside and size and style, including the trim and windows, and it will have a brush smooth texture to match the actual wood siding as closely as possible.

Okay. Do we have the homeowner here? Hi. Congratulations.

Thank you.

What'd you

get yourselves into?

Yeah. So I know. Please state your name and your address.

Nick and Emma Vashek. 202 West College Avenue.

Welcome. Thank you. Did you want is there anything else that you wanted to add to what Charlie already stated?

I just wanted to add a lot of those windows, all but two of those windows are original, and they're actually in really good shape on the interior. One of our concerns is that a lot of the siding around and the trim around these windows is heavily deteriorated and we're concerned about water affecting the windows too and then having to take those out. So that was that was a big factor in our in our, you know, talks with contracting and stuff like what our options were. Other than that, I I think that's everything. Another thing to note, if you could go back two slides. Yeah. One four. Yep.

Sorry.

Sorry. Delay. Go back one.

Okay.

Alright. Right there. The picture on the left where that corner piece, that's actually come down a considerable amount since the last two storms. It came down to the last storm and then the storm that just happened the other day. It's there's probably about an eight inch eight inch gap from at the top. And I think what's happening is the bottom is just continually rotting out, and it's just sinking lower and lower. Mhmm. So I thought that should be noted too. You have anything

right? It's quite urgent.

Yeah. It's urgent.

Have your contractors do they have any fear of anything structural underneath all this trim?

I mean, they've told us that we they can't really tell us what's Right. Is under there until they take it off.

Mhmm. The soffit on the sunroom, I don't know if we have a It's picture of completely rotted through.

Yeah. There's actually a And

we have water coming into the sunroom now, so we do at least have that structural damage already prevalent.

Yeah. There's a there's a there's a I don't I don't know if we have the picture here, but it's a pretty decent sized hole that we would be fixing as well with the trim.

Yeah. I don't

think we have that.

Yeah. The only other thing I'd care to mention is also the garage. So it has the siding. Unlike the house where it has a layer of brick at the bottom, the garage doesn't. So it means that the siding, it just kinda sits right at the ground level. And that was another point that our contractor pointed out that if we do replace it with wood, it's just gonna rot immediately because it's just sitting in water every time it rains.

I have a question. Yeah. Do you have any, what are your plans for the future of the scrolling that seems to be falling down the eight inches that you had mentioned before? Is there a replacement or a repair plan for that?

You're planning on trying to build that same structure out of LP.

Yeah. There's I mean, besides just the, you know, the lap siding, which is this brushed smooth LP. I mean, there's a lot of detail on this house, those corner panels, you know, these historic sills

Mhmm.

A lot of moldings. I mean, I I I don't know who you've talked to contractor wise and and all the parts and pieces they're they're planning on using. It might be helpful just to review a a proposal from them. For example, the window, that picture that Charlie has up, that's not just a one by four. It's a one by four with a back band piece to it.

So there's all these multiple pieces going on. And to pull all that off and just put one by four on will dramatically change the look of the of the home if that detail isn't, you know, paid attention to and and recreated. And there are, you know, PVC products that when painted look like smooth wood, and you'll never have to deal with it again. Yeah. I just fear, you know, showing one page of LP's smart siding brushed isn't enough information, you know, a detail write up from a a contractor spelling out more kind of these, you know, ASIC beat bits and pieces, these these corner panels that need to be rebuilt would be really helpful and important detail to understand.

I mean, I would make the argument right away to leave the shutters off. Those obviously weren't original and are not appropriate for the style of the home. Two shutters over flanking three windows that architecturally is just kind of

off. Absolutely.

So I I I mean, I obviously, it needs it, and there's really bad things going on. And the the sooner it happens, the better. But I I think some more details spelling out just the, you know, the the parts and pieces that go into it and and ensuring another detail that's on the house. It you know, obviously, it's it's original, these metal corner caps. You know, there's not a corner trim. Typically, this LP SmartSide requires adding corner trim boards. You know, so just what's what's the plan there? I think understanding some of these details is really important to to be able to approve the proposed work.

Yeah. We asked.

No. I'm sorry. LP SmartSide, it doesn't have a lot of interesting profiles. It's like all square and square and square and square and square. Sure. And you you just whoever the contractor is, it's going to do all those other details as to Matt's point, you know, like, what material is it? What are the profiles that are going on it? Sure. And those are all kind of things that exactly to the corner, like, once you cut LP SmartSide, you have to seal that end. And once you seal that end, is it gonna be a color match? Are you gonna cap something on top of it? So there's like a lot of things that are much more detailed with this particular material and the history and profile of all the different elements that you have in your house make complicated?

Yeah. We absolutely are planning on and we talked to our contractor about that, and they said that they that we told them that that is a priority for us, that we want all the the detail in it and that that we're not willing to part with that. So we definitely would be working to maintain that, the trim and as you mentioned. And also even those little, I don't even know what

they're Acorns?

The little acorns. Yeah. I'm not sure what the technical term is for those.

It's acorns.

I think those we'll just put back up.

Yeah, we'll probably just keep those up because they're not integral to the structure but they do offer design elements.

And we're not gonna find replacements for those.

No, we won't find replacements for those but we absolutely will do you know, we're open to flexibility for whatever we can do to fix it, but also keep all these elements that are inherent to it already.

So are we okay approving match existing? Or do we need a detail from a contractor spelling out what that work entails to approve?

Well, I guess I have a question before we even get to that. Charlie, have we ever approved LP SmartSide for an entire house? We've done it for garages, but I don't ever remember approving it for a house and what kind of precedent will we be setting?

There have been a couple

of houses where it's been approved. There's two that come to mind on Charles Street. Both of them had a newer replacement siding that was over. In one case, I think it was asbestos that had they had removed the original siding and replaced it with asbestos. So there was no original siding underneath. In another case, it was aluminum siding that was over wood siding underneath, but the wood siding underneath wasn't in very good condition. So and in that case, the applicant had stated that they would match all of the detail underneath.

But I just don't remember that. Maybe I missed that meeting.

Yes. I think it was well, the one on there was one last year actually that was on the West Side Of Charles in the McCall Street Historic District. And then there was one it was whenever that big storm happened, 2021, I think. It was on the East Side Of Charles.

It's a slippery slope.

I would suggest if we could actually get some kind of a plan or print from the actual contractor on some of his intentions on how he's going to keep some of the detail on this house. That is our one of our main promotions that we like with the Landmarks Commission is to make sure that we keep the integrity of the house. So there are a couple options. One I would suggest if we would suggest a printer a plan from a contractor or second if you're even able to get a contractor come in and speak on behalf of it. I know it's a little bit harder but it's always an option as you saw with the previous house it worked out relatively well and we're able to pick his brain on it as well.

When were you planning to have this work done?

As soon as possible. We were originally intending to do that as one of the first things that we did when we moved in. But then we found out about this whole process and we wanted to honor that. So we kinda put the brakes on it until we could get a date.

When did you guys close?

We

closed on April. When was it April? It's like late April and then we found out that it has to be two weeks before the meeting. It had already passed for the May meeting.

I don't even remember.

I don't recall exactly. That's okay, I just

wanna know. Just wanna know.

It was roughly April. I think we got our accepted offer sometime in, it was when we got back. So it'd a bit like March. Yeah. And we got our accepted offer in March and then it was about a month before we closed. So that would

So April sometime.

About April. Yeah.

And I'm I'm shocked that Carroll University let this deteriorate to this extent because they are such generally such responsible property owners.

And they fully ex like, disclosed that to us. They told us that the siding is really bad and needs full replacement.

But we will not give you any money to help you with

this.

And they also didn't tell us that it needed any sort of approve approval beforehand. They told us that we can't put any new structures on, but we can we have free reign over everything else. So we did not find that out until after we closed.

Yeah.

Welcome to home ownership.

Yeah. Really.

Yeah. I only ask because I wanna know how long you guys have been dealing with Yeah. The league and

the Yeah.

You know, just to get perspective on it.

Sure.

You know, the thing is is that there are a lot of important details to your historically important house. Yeah. It would be almost irresponsible for us as a commission to give you permission without really seeing what the plan is. Yeah. Because your contractor can tell you a bunch of things, but you don't know what they're gonna really install. You know? So as much as my heart wants to say, yes, let's do this for them. They're they got a great house. They're young. They're excited.

It's awesome. But I also we as a commission need to do our due diligence to protect you. To make sure that then your contract doesn't do something that we didn't do and then we're gonna come back to you and say, you gotta take it down. And you gotta pay for it to be done again. These are all precautions to protect you. We're on your side.

Mhmm.

And and we shall continue to be on your side if you can bring us back a rendering in a month.

Yeah. And just just details and material callouts are are the most important for really understanding what the what the plan is. So there aren't surprises because, you know, Carmen's right. If they put up something that, you know, we hadn't approved or wouldn't have approved, I mean, it's gotta get redone and that's more time, more money. You know, Tyvek and Tyvek tape is great triage for going over places where water's coming in now. It It'll keep it out for as long as you need it to be kept out so the contractor can get there, for sure. Won't be pretty, but it'll be less ugly than water coming through the walls of the house.

Yeah. And before I just let me finish my statement, and I'll let you talk. I don't mean a full rendering. I'm just talking about give us the the the architectural elements and the profiles and where they're gonna go Okay. And just an overview. Mhmm. And we're really great at visualizing and seeing. And if if you can do that, then we will continue to expedite the process for you. Fair?

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you.

Go ahead.

Thank you. Your enthusiasm, and thank you for buying this home, and it's it's ultimately the long term. You saw those other homes. Yeah. You know, we I would love to drive by your house and say, look at that. That's what our long term goal is. Yes. You have some massive water issues that you need to stop, but we really want the house to pop like be exciting like it did at one time. So I love your enthusiasm. Again, you guys took all my my thunder.

It's like, welcome to the world of homeownership, but historic homeownership. And all those little great details, the white little the white fence on top, all that stuff really, really needs to stay and then match with everything. And the siding does require some type of whether it's ten or fifteen years, it does require some kind of top coat or finish. It's not a lifetime thing. But congratulations and keep up the enthusiasm.

Thank you.

Is there any way we can get approval to work on the so soffit? I don't think that's necessarily replaced with LP. I don't think there's a good picture of it.

There's LP soffit. What? There's LP soffit.

Confirmed there was LP soffit. It's on the it's the it's the exact opposite corner that we're looking at now. But it's actually like a a full on hole, probably about this big.

I don't

if you

can see from the front.

Yeah. Front picture.

Well, it's on the side just to the left over there.

I have no problem with you guys doing, like, emergency repairs right now that would be appropriate to the future repairs.

Okay.

Let's just go ahead and put that through for approval so everybody's agreed and it's in record. And if something should happen, you can say, but they gave us that authority. Okay. Yeah. And and just try to make sure that it's in plan with what you're gonna continue to do in the future. Just so that you're not doing double work.

Yeah.

Sure.

Absolutely. Cool? Yes. Thank you. So I I I propose that we give a preliminary approval on emergency water repair contingent with future details to be installed upon final full certificate of appropriateness approval next month.

I second that.

Was that really wordy?

Yeah. It sounded great.

That was

great. They

were smiling.

A little bit.

Little bit. Mhmm.

They call me one take Jake. Uh-huh. Okay. So I ask to take a

second and motion on that. I second that.

Aye.

Aye. No. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

Thank you.

Thank you. So

we're moving on. We're moving on to 2500955 landmark submission, certificate of appropriateness for 201 West Laughlin Avenue. Review a request to replace storm windows and repair rotten wood sills.

Alright. 201 West Laughlin Avenue is at the intersection of Laughlin And Garfield in the Laughlin Avenue Historic District. And it is the H. E. Osborne House. It was built in 1900 and has vernacular Queen Anne style architecture. It's a simpler design than some of the other houses in the Laughlin Avenue Historic District, but it is considered to be pivotal due to its corner lot location and the unusual pavilion porch at the northeast end. And H. E. Osborne was the city librarian.

So the applicants would like to replace a number of storm windows throughout the House. The existing storms were added, they believe, sometime in most likely the 1970s. And they're a metal frame, which that generally is considered appropriate for storms, But they would like to replace them with wood frame storms, which will be an even closer match. So that will be they're just showing a number of the locations, the one through four of the windows that they would like to replace. And then just kind of going around the house, it looks like the majority of the storm windows on the house, not quite all of them, will be all replaced with these wood frame storms.

The underlying windows will not be touched. So it'll just be the storms that are replaced. And then they do have one noting that they're not replacing this one window, but they plan to paint the new storms to match that green trim color. And then I would also like to replace some rotted sills and that will be replaced with wood and any replacement wood will match the dimensions of the existing wood.

Great. Do we have the homeowners here? Hi. You could state your name and your address, please. I'm Michelle Panton, and I live at 201 West Lafflin Avenue. Thank you for being here. Welcome. Thanks. Was there anything that you wanted to add to what Charlie already said? Not really. Just for your information, 215 West Laughlin since we've lived in the house had the same done. These are Marvin combo storm and screens. Great, anybody have any questions? Nope, I'm looking for a motion.

I motion to approve the ID number 2500955 for 201 West Laughlin as presented.

I'll second that.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Yes. Aye.

Thank you. You're approved. But wait, there's more. Moving on to 25Dash00983 landmarks commission paint and repair grant for 201 West Laughlin Avenue.

Alright.

Laughlin.

So the cost estimate for that is $14,335 and and 92¢. That's $88,335.92 for the storms and screens and then $4,000 for the installation and painting and then $2,000 estimate for materials to replace the windowsills. So that comes out to $14,335.92

Okay. Well, based on the 15%, I would move that we approve a patent repair grant for $2,150 for this project.

I'll second that. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

Great. You've been approved a paint and repair grant for 2150. Thank you so much. We're moving on to 25Dash00975LandmarksCommission certificate of appropriateness for 507 North Grand Avenue, and we're gonna review a request to replace the third story windows. This is the Andrew Frame House.

Alright.

And now I'm not interrupting.

Would you like your cookies back?

Yeah. Because I didn't get one. Started talking. That's okay. Thank you.

And then I stopped.

You're awesome. Interrupt.

Thank you. Thank you.

Was just kidding.

Thank you. Okay.

All right. So this is 507 North Grand. It's at the corner of Grand Avenue and Carroll Street, and it is an individually designated local landmark. It's the Andrew Frame House, which was built in 1879. It's considered to be one of the best examples of the Italianate style and specifically the cubical Italianate style in the city.

And Andrew Frame was one of Waukesha's most prominent early citizens. He was the President from the of the Waukesha National Bank from 1880 until 1919 and worked at the bank before and was also on, I believe, the Board of the bank after that and donated the land that is now Frame Park to the city. And again, Frame Park House is an individually designated local landmark. As you can see, the house has prominent windows on the first and second stories, which are taller, they're longer and also have the custom curved shape at the top. The windows on the third story are much smaller.

They're just a standard what's the word? Shape?

Yes, a

standard shape. They are meant to be this is as the applicant has stated, it's they're meant to be part of the Italianate style is that they're it's an invisible 3rd Floor, so they're meant to be less prominent. And the windows are in very bad condition, and she would like to replace them with new windows, noting that, again, that they're it's hard to see the dimension from ground level as it is. And so she's provided some photos of the interior as well. And the proposed windows will be renewed by Anderson, acclaimed double hung windows double hung is the word that I was looking for.

Acclaimed double hung windows, which are a composite window that's designed to mimic the it's a wood composite that's designed to appearance mimic the appearance of standard wood windows. So and she's provided some color samples of the paint that will be used for the window to try and match the existing trim of the house. So this is the, I think, the most closely matching color sample. So again, that's replacing the third story windows with Andersen acclaimed double hung composite windows.

How are you?

How are you, Karen?

Karen Frame, 507 North Grand Avenue.

Is there anything else you wanted to add from what Charlie already

Well, I did not apply for a grant only because if I started applying for grants, you'd never have money for anybody else. Because there's always something. But, yes, I he's exactly right. The Italianate style, the 3rd Floor is supposed to be invisible. I did a big story on Italianate homes, so that's just one fact I found out. And this is the color for the exterior. It's very similar to some of the trim, but none of the trim that is the burgundy touches any of the windows. So it's it won't be burgundy on burgundy at that level of the house, if that makes any

sense. Mhmm.

So I think it'll be actually look really pretty and just kind of bring out more of the the burgundy that's real subtle hints. So I guess the color is really the only thing that you'd need to approve because it is a wood composite. But

Anybody have any questions?

Was it available at the green, Karen?

The green was like a hunter green.

I can

show you a picture of it, but it was it absolutely clashed. This one at least as like on a color wheel is very similar and would look good. The green was I have a picture on my phone if you wanna see

it. Sure.

It's kinda weird sometimes you think colors don't go together and then they do. Uh-huh. I think it'll look really good.

Burgundy color also looks just like the

Like the little carriage house. Carriage house. Right next door. Mhmm. Did they decide to sell that yet?

So this is the green. But it looks it's like it would look terrible. It was a real, real

dark green.

Green down the bottom?

Yeah. It's a real dark green, but the the greens I have have more of a blue.

I was just gonna say

it's got

more blue. And one's like

a real

it is definitely more

blue. Mhmm.

And because yellow is one of my trim colors, and that's just like on the little circle thing. And then burgundy is another one just on the little pretty thin band of things. It doesn't take up, like, lot.

I mean, like, there's a

little on the pillars. Mhmm. That's so far away from where the windows are that you wouldn't you wouldn't like

I mean, we technically don't can't judge on paint color. That's your choice. You know? So

I would never

No. Of course. Well, you've made it look so great. I don't think you would ever do that.

So the only question I'm I'm assuming the the windows would have all the same proportions as they have now. It's just They're

all exactly the same size.

Right. Yeah. But the same. It they don't have any things. They're

Nope. They're just the windows. I'm not having any trim redone.

Right.

That I mean, they're in the trim is in fine shape. I mean, they've it's kind of fun. They've got, like, little where little old hinges used to be. You can see like in the wood inside. I'm like, don't take those out. I love all the little weird little things that have changed over the years. I love that stuff. So I'm still trying to find that picture of the green.

Does anybody have any questions?

No.

Okay. I am looking for a motion.

Motion to COA approve the 25975 Or 507 North Grand Ave.

Second.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Yes. Aye.

There you go. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing it.

Beautiful house.

Okay. We're moving on to the alderman's report.

Well, last night's common council meeting, we approved the CBDG. I do write read it because sometimes I say something else, but I was on that committee for a while. I'm very proud that monies can go get out and actually get used after they were I thought they'd be vaporized for longer than they were. But the reason when I was asked to join this, what we did tonight, I'm very proud of this team and what we all did tonight. It's why I came here just to help people, particularly the the young couple and the passion, and that's the passion I bring to this. So, basically, carry on the passion.

So

I guess, last month, I had mentioned that at that time, we thought most likely the spring's cleanups would not be happening for the spring. That turned out to be incorrect. I was contacted after shortly after the meeting. I had talked to one of the person that Julie put me in touch with at North High School a couple of months ago about the possibility of the students helping out first they have a cleanup volunteer day. And had sort of thought nothing had come of it, but it turned out we were on their calendar. So we've sort of

Calendar next year.

Yeah. Last minute came up with some work for them to do. Parks department was able to drop off some mulch. We basically asked them for half of what they used last year. So they did spread out mulch on the trail down to Meniscus Spring, and they cleaned it out. So the spring and the the trail there looked looked great. It was a team of about 10 high school students. And actually, Brian Running, the city attorney, was one of their two supervisors. He he was, I guess, volunteering through the Kiwanis Club. So he was supervising that group.

And then Hobo Spring, we did have a team of volunteers there. It's filled up this is a more recent picture. It's filled up more since then. It was kind of just a couple of inches around the basin at that time. But with the rains, it's continued to fill. Had Rob Wheeler from the Public Works Department came down and got into his waders and was probing into the pipe. He as far as he could tell, he didn't believe there was actually a block. He thought it was just the water level of the river was high, so it wasn't draining properly. So but they did the group was very enthusiastic there. They scraped out a lot of the really disgusting, monkey rotted leaves.

So we are pretty confident that it will be at least less mucky when it drains out again. So hopefully, will be better. And maybe we'll need to have another cleanup later on in the year.

Great. Anything else for the Springs report?

I've got a question. We've been talking about this stoopy thing for how long. Has anything been done

Charlie's been trying to get ahold of her and get a comment. And the last time Marilyn and I went down and they were gonna put gravel was the last thing that they talked about. And they were gonna talk to the tree cutters about doing something for the tree, and then I haven't heard anything. I tried to reach a hold of her four times, and then Charlie started to get ahold of her.

Yeah. It's we've been kinda trying to work with the parks department on on getting the tree removed there and potentially getting something done with landscaping around it. I think it's they have a lot of work and it's not high on their priority list. Okay. I guess are you referring to the chair there?

The tree and the gravel and the step.

Right. The step. The step. We're thinking about getting that one stone to

have a better

Right.