Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay. We're good. So

okay. Let us call this meeting to order. So, roll call. I know commissioner Welner is excused, and everyone else is here today. So we are all present. Any public comment? There does not appear to be anyone. So let us move on to the consent agenda. We have a lot of items that we canceled a few meetings because all we had was regular reports. So let us move to let's see. We have minutes from September and December. Make a motion to approve

the consent agenda. So

Second. Second? Okay. All in favor, say

aye. Aye.

No opposed. Okay. Motion carries. Let's look at our departmental reports. Where do you wanna start, chief Primer?

Sure. Can start with police departments. Okay. We had a few months off as far as PFC is concerned, so there's a few monthly reports in front of you. We want to take probably the most important one is December.

Because then I see what December has had in basically the end of the year. So we know exactly where we where everything shook out compared to 2024, and it's very, very close to even. So we have a very similar year in 2024. Nothing really stands out to me, but if anything stands out to any one of you, and I can answer those questions if you have them, I will be more than happy to do that. And if, again, if you wanna look at September, November, whatever the case is, I'll look at those two.

Is it just an error that we have two December 25?

Oh, yeah. Because one was supposed to be removed, and I apparently didn't remove it before I bought it.

Okay. But they're the same. Yeah.

There was just an error in so the winter band section there, the date or the year was never changed from Oh, okay. 2024 in one of them. So

that's Okay.

And it's because December is so important, we thought you should

have to stop.

Yes. Yeah.

Just get you.

Hey. I was busy that month, so it's Yeah. Yeah.

It's I was just talking about the value of ink.

Are there any questions for chief about these reports? No. Then let's keep moving on. Fire.

Same thing as, police chief Ryan Grint's day. We have from September up to December. And just going through the months here to kinda refresh my mind, you don't mind going to December as well. It's like Nick had stated, it's pretty much the end of the year and kinda where we ended up with everything. Nothing that's an anomaly or anything of that sort.

We did finish over 6,200 calls, which is an increase from our twenty twenty four. So, still trending up that way as far as increasing calls, not necessarily what you wanna see, but staff, big thank you to them for being up to the challenge, and we're just looking forward to getting 2026 going here. I have to answer any questions from any of the previous months if you happen to have any, really December probably the biggest thing, if I could just backtrack one moment there, just the budget expenses. When you look at those, especially December 1, you'll see that it's over 116% rather than 100%. And that's also I think I reported this back in May or June that we actually received a fire truck this year and the remainder of that was just taken from our general budget.

So once the books isn't the proper word to use, but the budgets are balanced out, that'll reflect much different budget expenses there and so forth. Because it was a capital purchase which would come out of our capital borrowing and not our operational budget. So that was just one thing I wanted to point out. That's why it's so high in December there being over budget. Any questions? Yeah. I thought we were moving away from this format. You know, that would be my bad because I was supposed to provide the colored copies. So the format, I believe you were okay with. It was just a matter of the colors being changed.

And being in black and white, I it does not help at all. But if I do remember, we were okay with the format that was changed once we had a better colored copy of it.

That's what I recall was the recipe. What don't you like about it?

This one I have to admit is very hard to read with Hard to find. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Somebody's gotta give you a hard time. That's okay. So I

I have one question specifically about this, just several months ago, I forwarded you citizens concern about the increase in ambulance costs that apparently like in their mind it went up a significant amount. Just and I know you followed up with that and I appreciate that. Just what what is the process when those things happen? How is that communicated to the public?

You know, and following up with that individual, I mean, some good points were brought out. I think it's the same way that it's done in anything that's done in government. Everything is public posted, public notices, it goes through. It just isn't something that just arbitrarily happens. We don't have the ability necessarily to reach out to all 35,000 citizens saying today is gonna be a meeting on a specific item, if you would.

So when it comes to the budget process and stuff, those are all published, whether it be city online, they're there. Or some other I'm sorry, newspaper, I think there's postings. With it being government practice and fire based EMS budgets, everything is listed out there ahead of time for people to come and to look at. If they don't have the means for that, meetings once a week are posted at city hall, that they're more than welcome to come in there and on the board, they'll find out each one of the meetings and when they're held. This individual that brought forth some of these questions, I don't think they're wrong.

We do have opportunities. We work with a local radio station that we're able to get on there quarterly, I would say, that, you know, issues like that are talked about and try to get out. I understand we're not getting all 35,000 people, but unfortunately, in the one particular one that you're referring to, the information wasn't received there, but able to give the follow-up of how the process worked. And we talked about the process, the concern that was brought forward was the cost of a no transport of the patient and really just the frustration if they would've known the cost, they would've went to the hospital. Just so many things that just go down a negative pathway with it because it only gets worse before it gets better.

I really don't know how else to explain that. But we do have a a non transport fee, and that goes back many years ago that we were charging because especially with the housing market crash and high unemployment that we've experienced here. And sort of when we first started, so we had a lot of people just calling the fire department to kind of health care wise. You know, does everything look good? Well, it looks good.

You know, not necessarily the right advice that we should be giving as the health care providers, if you would. You know, we're a certain level. We're there to take care of the emergencies, but we don't have x-ray vision that we can really go through the battery test that they would from a hospital if you don't feel well. So that kind of started that, and then our process here for the city of Manitowoc and many of our other communities is when it comes to setting those prices, it's based upon a formula of what the surrounding communities, services that are very similar to what your service is and what's a customary charge, if you would. In this particular incident, the individual was concerned that we just arbitrarily went out and decided what our price increases were gonna be.

And that wasn't necessarily the case, but to their defense is they didn't know what the process was. So that process is that we had not updated our resolution through common counsel with what those charges should be. And it was brought to the attention that it had been a good seven years, actually nine years now, it was increased last year, so eight years since that was looked at. And as you know, cost of fire trucks, cost of operating ambulances, everything have just skyrocketed. And the insurance? And insurance. So we figured it was time to take a look. So the direction was before budget, take a look at that. So this was all known ahead of time. So we went to our third party billing company.

They went, they got comparables to our services, and you take a look at that and you find the average of where it is. And that's what we did. And one of the ones that did go up exponentially was that no transport fee that did see probably the most significant amount of increase. Can I ask you what the two prices are for the transport versus non transport? It varies, but an old trans so if there's a BLS and there's an ALS.

If you do any type of advanced life skills support, like say you're reading the monitor, you're giving glucose, you're doing any type of invasive skill, that that's gonna be at that advanced life support level, is at $30,000. Okay. And then the BLS is at $500. And so besides that happening, there's also through council action with public safety is there is a opportunity, not for this guy to be the nice guy if every phone call he receives it. Yep.

I understand there's hardships and saying we're going to do away with that. The billing company has a process for claiming hardship, as well as common counsel will listen to it, public safety will listen to it first. They decide if it's warranted or not, or if we should look at a payment plan or but they're ultimately the ones that decide with consultation with the fire and rescue department to explain the situation, what happened, just so they can get both sides of the story. But the individual is able to write a letter, explain their side of it, and then you discuss. It's usually in closed session only for the simple fact that it's HIPAA protected information and you don't wanna be sharing information of that sort.

And the non transport fees? So that's the $500.500. Okay. And thousand also, though, if it's ALS. Yep. So if they do get transported, that fee can even be higher based upon medications that were given and different treatments that may have occurred. But it is you can find that resolution that gives a basic, like, $1,200 that you want to throw, for example, without it not having that here in front of me, like, 900 for a ELS transport. Does insurance cover any portion of it? Not that I'm aware of. Every insurance is different.

Especially when it comes to Medicare. That's one of the biggest challenges is the aging population here. Because when they see that and if they only have the Part A as far as their coverage goes, they think they're I shouldn't say they think. I mean, it could be no different soon, is that I'm getting a real good deal on my insurance. And the problem is is you find out, well, it doesn't cover ambulances. It doesn't. Those are all out of pocket costs for you. Larger questions I could go into, but a lot of times we try to talk about these things at any group presentation like Golden Cave we go to or things like that. But once again, we are not getting to the 35,000 people out here. Right.

We just try to do as many as we can. I'd much rather see the word coming from us than people going out there saying, well, we're just not gonna call them the ambulance. I understand understand frustration. That's an easy thing to say, but it's not something that I recommend that that we do. We can always deal with these issues later if you would. Like I said, payment plans or whatever are very easy to say when it's not my money, but, ultimately, as the risk manager, it's you want the greatest good for people out there. And that's officially a doctor when you get to the hospital. But the staff does a great job intermediately getting them there safely.

Again, I appreciate your follow-up, and I assume that was the appropriate process that that I forwarded her to speak to you. By all means, yes. And that Yes. You know, that wasn't I didn't feel that it was my job as a commissioner to investigate. Yeah.

Know? No. No. And and there's a lot of that going on right now that I don't know. It's not gonna make us any longer, but there's been some news articles lately about ambulance fees and so forth, more of the third party private ambulances, one in particular that does a lot in this area without naming names, but that some of their bills are extremely high. Mhmm. Just for a point of reference here, we talked about the thousand dollars I told you for no transport. My father who passed away a few years back was transported from St. Luke's, Milwaukee to a hospice facility, and my mother was given an $8,000 bill for that. Ouch.

So that's just an example of just how it is all over. I think that council is very responsible when we look at those comparables and, you know, do select prices that they do for the community.

Good. Yeah. Just again, it's just a reminder that that we're a connector, not not this solar. Good point.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. And then anything for the building inspection reports? No, sir.

Nothing really. Busy year for everybody there as well. You're doing a great job. Know, enforcement property, one of our problem properties has really made some significant improvements over on the Northeast Side of town, mobile home park that we've dealing with for years. Once again, plenty of constituents that call weekly and I appreciate those phone calls of what's happening and sometimes it's a voice to listen, but, also it's the process sometimes it's not that quick through the court system, but with the help of the city attorney and, the court, we were able to, force some, correction items a little bit quicker there than what we've seen over the last few months. Okay. Thank you.

We're ready to move on,

folks? Yep.

Okay. The eligibility list, we do not need to be in closed session. Right? Correct. Okay. So go ahead.

Yeah. So commissioner Walder, I don't know if he reached out to any of you, but, you know, he supports this list at all.

Yeah. Or not. Didn't we get that in an email?

I don't recall that. I don't know.

We have some with interviews and stuff. Have a

lot stuff. There's a lot of that stuff. So I know he's on on vacation. But basically, we've interviewed five or six individuals. We came up with three names that I would ask the PSC here to put an eligibility list for a year. Reason being is if you look at the last one, his name is Brian Went. So he is currently has a manufacturing job. So he's going through the academy started this month part time. So normally well, the academy is always seven or twenty hours right now. Normally, people use that four and a half months and and they get their seven or twenty hours and it's a full time academy.

What an LTC, this is the newest thing they're offering starting this year, I believe. It's a part time academy, so they take that seven or twenty hours and they stretch it over a year while you're able to work. Of course, costs money to go to the academy. And, of course, if you're not working while going to the academy, that's then you're not having any income. So that's a really great program. This is the first person that came came to us that's going through this. So that's why I would ask for a year. He will be done with the academy in December, where normally he was the full time he'd been done in May. But a good candidate, a local individual. The other two candidates, the first one, Brandon Stoltmicker.

As you can see, his address is out of Ohio. He was born in Ohio, but then he moved to Manitowoc for a while and went to Ben Franklin, went to Washington, and he graduated from Lincoln High School. And then he went back to Ohio related to his his parents and where his parents were at the time. But he has a lot of local ties here, so that's that's obviously why he wants to come back from the Manitowoc Police Department and work here. He's got three years at the Athens city of Athens Police Department.

So he would be eligible for a lateral transfer. And then the middle of the individual, Drew Remaker, again, local from Two Rivers. And he is certified what, December? I should also note that we do not have any openings right now, but my retirement will be March 20. So one of these individuals will hopefully fill my position to get us back up to 65.

The mayor, the town of council has been very good about allowing us to hire a little bit in advance. So by the time that I would leave, the person would be further along in that field training process. As soon as this list is out there, we'll probably make an offer and then kind of go and hire somebody as soon as we can, that one person. Then of course, if we see any other retirements, we don't really anticipate any retirements this year, but there are three or four people that are of retirement age that would strike them. But we don't anticipate any other ones this year, but it's nice to have them on the list here in case something happens. I agree. Don't you

come along and see how big

your shoes are that they're not? Just a size twelve.

Question about skull liquor. Yep. Just the process the rest of reciprocity process. If that doesn't happen, then it just goes to the normal certification process. Does that delay

That would delay it immensely.

Yes.

That would be a problem. So if he can't pass the reciprocity, that would mean that he'd either have to take it again in a certain amount of time, I would think, or he'd have to go through the entire seven twenty hour course in Wisconsin. So he's certified only in Ohio.

Have you ever dealt with something like that before?

We've dealt with reciprocity. So Craig Jansen came to us from Missouri, just outside of Ferguson, Missouri. He took the reciprocity test. It was a little different then according to what Craig said when I talked to him about this, but very similar. It it's a test.

Okay. So, So basically, I mean, this isn't the right one, but he's testing out of needing to do the course here essentially is what that is.

Obviously, our laws are not all the same as Ohio, but the tactics should be very similar. Okay.

So he may that that may select him out of It could. This list.

Correct. It you know? Yeah. So Yeah. If we

give him an offer, it would be contingent on him, you know, passing the reciprocity test. Doesn't then the offer gets to go up and go up. Okay. Any

other questions? Nope. Okay. Who would like to make a motion?

I will. So moved.

Okay. Second.

Do I need

to read it? For

pretty. Here we go.

Yes. For what?

For a period of twelve

months. Right? That is correct.

And that's what you seconded. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries. Is there any other business that the commission would like to address at this moment? Okay, and I entertain a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn. Second.

Nondebatable. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, motion carries. The meeting is adjourned.

Now that we're done.