Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

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Well, it's nice to see everybody again. I hope everybody is doing well, and I think, Commissioner Kyler, we start with you today.

Oh, my gosh. Busy couple weeks, and I'll run through some things, but pretty quickly. Last week was MACO, and that's... When I was on the other side of the fence, I'm not sure I thought that that was a good time for commissioners, but it's very meaningful. And the first year, I probably did more sessions and less other outside talk. Now it's like you need to schedule meetings and see people outside of the sessions you want to go to. So it's a great time. Talk to Shock Trauma, BGAE. um i'm on the legislative committee and we we spent an hour and a half two hours working on paring down the initiatives we meet again in late october to get them down to four which is their rule is it has to be four we probably started with 35. um Plenty of events. I was probably 7 to 10 p.m. was about my workday. Secretary Rothstein, Secretary Coker, who's working on a task force for royal issues, which is pretty good. MDOT, Secretary Thompson, and District 7 was there represented. So some years, maybe they didn't include the individual district but i think they are in all their meetings now and uh we're lucky district seven in my my humble opinion is the best district in the state but uh it's it was a good meeting good discussions uh we ended up with the crab feed which is always a good evening and you see so many people there i left uh A half hour early. I don't know if anybody was there later. I was told the governor was actually gonna sing with the band, but I don't know whether that happened or not. On Saturday, there was a ribbon cutting at Westminster Liquors right next to Chick-fil-A, where the old Rite Aid place was. That is a great business for Westminster. When Rite Aid left, they were kind of squirrelly with their liquor license, which made it hard to, uh, for somebody to come in there, but they worked it all out and they were in, I'm sorry, I missed the ribbon cutting, uh, between Mako and getting back. But, um, I understand it was a good crowd and it's a good business. They did compliment how well both the liquor board and permits worked with them to, uh, they said neither one were easy, but they were prompt and on time and save them some time. On Monday, I got to walk the turf field at Community College. The turf was down, but the sand and rubber wasn't placed yet. That's a picture they sent. The PM sent us this morning that the logo is painted. That wasn't there on Monday. And I think September 17th, they're doing a... a grand opening, a dedication, and there will be, after the dedication, there will be a women's and a men's soccer game. I didn't realize it, and it's probably a good cost savings measure. The men and women are normally both home the same day, and away games, they travel together when possible. But the turf field looks good. um and and roberta do you it's a five or six million dollar project probably five and a half i think something yeah yeah 5.4 yeah yeah and uh so a great project something good for westminster the track will be rubber um and some of the field events uh will be up the hill from it And they have two, what I consider pretty small bleachers, but it's a natural banks there. So it'll be interesting and more power to them. And we need turf fields in Carroll County and I'm glad. Um, we, we got one that's quasi public. Hopefully it'll be used by the community a fair amount. I did my chamber breakfast at Finksburg library on Monday. Um, good, interesting crowd. And, uh, only one question during the meeting, but got to talk to a lot of people afterwards. Um, we had veterans advisory this week. That was a good meeting. And, uh, I, I like it. Um, It was pretty much an hour-long meeting because a lot of people had input and talked, and that's how that group ought to be. I went to Frederick County one night this week to see Jesse Pippi, and it was really interesting. No offense to him. It was better than I expected. And he's a good person and good in Annapolis for us and a good – A good. Person that works with our delegation, but there were a Board of Ed candidates, county exec candidates. It was a lot of people there and it was fun to talk to Frederick County. I haven't spent a lot of time in Frederick County, probably for 20 years, so it was nice to get some updates. Care counting. community college board of trustees were last night and it was interesting i don't think any of them have walked the field yet they're waiting until september 17th so again i want to thank kirk rpm for allowing me to do that now best laid plans in construction um almost two weeks ago we tried to set up something where a group of people could be there and uh and walk the field and and get a tour and and do whatever uh the turf didn't show up because the purpose of seeing the turf the turf didn't wasn't delivered in time so we reset the meeting and the crew didn't show that day. Um, the turf was there, but the crew backed it up for two days, which then we were at Mako. So, um, this was kind of a bandaid getting there, but I, I do appreciate our facilities people for, uh, um, making it all possible. And then, uh, We have a retirement luncheon this afternoon because we are losing Roberta Windham and technically September 1st. But you have some vacation you're taking, so really technically today. So thank you and we'll miss you and I'm done.

Thank you very much, Commissioner. Commissioner Gordon?

Good morning. I know Commissioner Kyler mentioned some of the MAKO activities. I'm going to be really brief on that, but I did have the opportunity to meet with a number of the secretaries and a number of other individuals through various state organizations. Matt, if you could pull up the photo with myself and Michelle Johnson here. who's the director of the maryland 250 commission that's us there at the convention with sneaks the cat who is the maryland summer reading mascot so got some got an opportunity to speak to michelle as to what's the rest of the 250 commission plan looking like and how that's rolling out as well as A lot of other people. It was just a really good opportunity to speak in person with colleagues, not only from other counties, but also on the state level. We did a rural county breakfast, which is always a good conversation to get all the rural counties together, discuss some of the various topics we're all interacting with and dealing with and comparing notes. So MAKO has always seemed to go by really quickly, but was definitely a lot to take in and always a good time to interact with everyone. On four o'clock today at Locust Lane, the fourth annual Kindness Stroll is gonna kick off in Westminster. I'm sure if anybody's been driving up and down Main Street, you may have seen some of the flags and some of the signs that are going out for that. That's a great opportunity to support some nonprofits in the community. That'll be going on for, I believe, several weeks. Also wanted to reach out, we were not here for it, but wanted to congratulate the winners of the Carroll County Biz Challenge. There were 29 businesses that applied, five finalists, and the grand prize winner was Little Locals. The United Way Changemaker Award went to Project Lather, and the People's Choice Award was the Pearl Intelligence Network. I really was disappointed I got to miss that this year because it's always great to see what kind of creative ideas and businesses come to fruition in our county. what might be the next big thing we may see on Main Street or even bigger than that but always a great time so I wanted to congratulate those winners on that with the the biz challenge also wanted to mention that Tuesday here in Carroll County was the actually bear with me a second to find my notes was the volunteer firefighters uh excuse me was volunteer firefighters day and i just want to take a minute to thank the brave men and women who give their time energy and often place themselves in harm way harm's way to protect our communities as we all know there's been a significant it seems like significant uptick of the last two weeks especially here in westminster we had one house hit by lightning we had another fire on main street i know there's been some other issues And that's just here in Westminster, but wanted to give a shout out and thank all the volunteers that do a wonderful job at keeping everyone in our community safe. And, you know, we need to recognize the families who've made volunteering a tradition, generation after generation, sons, daughters, parents, grandparents, and siblings. that have followed in the footsteps of those that came before them and have a proud legacy of serving our community. So I just wanted to thank them for that. That truly never goes unnoticed, but wanted to make sure I mentioned that today. Also wanted to mention really briefly, I don't know if anybody has seen it on social media, but the Sheriff's Office did come out. There's an interesting scam of late. It's a church directory scam. and uh definitely something if you get a moment go take a look at the uh carroll county sheriff's department web facebook page there's some more information but they do have some level of information regarding those churches and they're acting as if they're somehow involved to look for stealing funds but wanted to mention that as well and just make people aware I also wanted to thank a group of sixth graders that came out to the Westminster Police Department the other day and dropped off some baked goods. I think what a great way to interact with your local law enforcement before going back to school. And I know all of our various entities, whether it's fire, police, typically are receiving things from members of the community. It's just a great way to thank those that serve us. also want to mention real briefly i know commissioner kyler mentioned the vac meeting the other day with the veterans advisory council i was at that tuesday afternoon and tuesday morning i was at planning and zoning and i would be truly remiss if i didn't mention this happened right before mako last Well, yeah, two Mondays ago. Bill Hudson, who is the president of the former students and friends of Robert Moten, and I attended the Westminster City Council meeting. Westminster is one of the municipalities that has agreed to put some funding forward towards the Robert Moten Museum, and we just went to thank them for their contribution for that. And that's all for me. Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Commissioner Guerin?

Thank you. Good morning, Carroll County. I appreciate Commissioner Gordon mentioning our volunteer firefighter companies. And he mentioned what seems like an uptick in fires lately. I know that's anecdotal. I don't have the data. But what it has done is... reminded everybody the importance of what we consider we call rural water supplies. This is Carroll County. A lot of people are in wells. They're on septic. So the water that's going to be used to fight the fire in your house is coming from a stream or a creek or a pond or something like that. And the volunteer fire companies manage all those along with DFEMS. And they're extremely important. And when you drive over a bridge and you see a yellow pipe coming out from the side, that's what that is. That's a rural water supply. And this board is making every effort to increase the number of those sites around the county because it is not a nice to have. It is a need to have in addition to a lot of underground water tanks that the county is continuing to commission and bring up. We've got one that we just finished. And there's another above ground tank that's being planned over in Marston Road in the southern part of the county. So those rural water supplies, they are critical. They're critical. And our volunteer fire companies, they know those areas better than anybody. And they manage those. And we just replaced some signage and got those up and going again. And then lastly, I want to take an unusual point of privilege and wish my dad a happy birthday. He's a great guy. It's truly an American story. He immigrated here as a young child with well, a teenager with nothing, was drafted, served his country, raised my sister and I, married my mother, who's second-generation Italian, worked as a police officer and retired doing that, and today is his birthday. And I know my mother and my father watch these meetings. I think they find them entertaining sometimes. So I want to wish Dad a very happy birthday. And that's all from me.

Happy birthday to him.

Commissioner Krebs. Thank you. We have a lot today because we weren't here last week, so we're doubling up for two weeks worth. But I just want to give accolades once again to one of our teams here at the county, the public works team. We've had several people weigh in thanking them for responding to a Saturday water main break and repair on Snowden's Run Road. Obviously, we all take it for granted that you turn the faucet on and there's water there, but something like that happens and you realize, ooh, there's a problem. So just for the utility staff, there's some names here. I don't want to name them because I might miss someone and I don't want to do that, but hopefully we've responded back and you'll take that information back. But I just want to read briefly from one person that wrote, water main break on snowden's run road i recognize the impact that an 11 hour emergency repair on a saturday what it has on your personal family and family time i sincerely appreciate the effort and commitment and demonstrated by everyone involved your willingness to respond when needed work together as a team and remain on site until the repair was completed allowed us to restore service to everyone as quickly as possible and thank you for your dedication and so that was written and then They basically said they were hugely impressed by the response of the county when the break was reported. All in all, the water was restored within eight hours of the team's arrival and they mentioned that hey they could have turned the water off and just said hey we'll be back monday but they didn't they stayed for the entire time this person said they could not stop talking about how amazing the men and women that were that came to fix the issue they could have easily turned the water off and waited another day but instead stayed the entire 11 until 11 pm i'm sorry 11 pm to make sure we had the water restored and the road was safely passable kudos I hope you can share this with your appropriate crews and team members. And I know you've shared it with them. The thank yous will always get thank yous of something that you expect. But I want to make sure that people in the county realize that that is available. And we're always there to take care of these emergencies. So thank you and everyone. Secondly, we had, I guess, On August 6, we have a consultant that's in to help us with the Freedom Commercial District of Route 32 and 26. It's been a long time wish, 30-year wish of the folks down there to have some type of continuity and a plan for how things get developed there. There's been some controversy. So we brought in a consultant, and they have done a lot of work for us. And we call it, it's a little confusing, it's called the Freedom Plan Small Area Amendment and Overlay Zoning District. So that's a little complicated for people that don't know what that is. But basically, it's looking for evaluating how the Carter has changed and identify priorities for future growth and redevelopment identify where redevelopment should occur while protecting the established neighborhoods and community assets and preparing this overlay district that guides future development building design landscaping access and streetscapes we also have another consultant working on the actual road itself to make sure that we have more safety down there on that that quarter it's we've increased the traffic there by many, many, many fold in the last 30 years and have not done a lot to keep up with it. But we're working on that now. So they had a we had a workshop to gather direction. They met with the Planning Commission. They met with us last week while they were in town, the consultants and got our feedback. And then they met at the library at Ellersberg Library and had an open house to go over what the vision was and identify some of the challenges and opportunities that were available. And the most important thing that we did is we did a driving tour. It was to of folks and some from our planning staff, from the Planning and Zoning Committee and our consultants. I've always said you can't make decisions from a map. You've got to have a map, but you have to see things in person. When people actually saw things in person, I think there's a lot of agreement just conceptually on some of the opportunities we have for improvement. I thank people for taking the time. It's got to be. That's why people that live in areas know them best because they are there. They they see what's going on. And having that on the ground experience to me is key to making sure that that occurs. So there will be more opportunities to weigh in on this. So it's going to take about eight months for this to come out. obviously the the feedback from the citizens down there are going to be most important to the success for this so people that are interested can learn more by visiting our Carroll County website and then look under freedom small area plan so and then that should give you some information on the future opportunities and communication to be involved with that there's some those discussions uh the commissioner kyler and gordon both referred to um mako i was at mako as well i've been going there for many many years in a different role but there's so much to be learned there and so much um it's almost overwhelming the amount of opportunity there is for um for professional development. So we learned a lot about PFAS. Don't even ask me how to say what that is. It's plastics in the water that we drink. I call it the new carbon. You're going to be hearing a lot about it. And what are we doing about it? Because it's a major issue. It could bankrupt local municipalities on how we handle it. So I think there's a lot of good discussion going on, water safe levels of drinking water. How do we take care of it in our ground? It's in our sludge. It's in our manure. It's in everything. It's in everything we use. It's in makeup, these plastics. It's in your Teflon frying pans. It's pretty much unstoppable, the amount of plastics, little teeny things that are getting into our drinking water. So, you know, how do we deal with that? And I think the consensus has been, you know, they've got to stop making some of this. It was in firefighting foam and equipment, and what firefighters wore for many years, they've changed that. But then what do we do with the remnants that are now getting into our ground and into our groundwater? And we learned a lot about we're on the beginning edges, the beginning front of how to deal with this with our drinking water. So there's a lot of discussion at MAKO about that. We talked about the data centers and the impacts. They're here to stay. That was the message. They're here to stay, whether we like them or not, depending on where they're going to be put. Most counties have put some type of a moratorium in place just to get a handle on what the impacts are to the environment. And the question is the electricity and electricity cost, because it affects every single one of us. Everybody's bill has increased dramatically because a number of reasons. In Maryland, it's because we've closed down a lot of our sources of power over the years. I say we. The legislature has done that. I did not support that in the past. So we have a new opportunity here that needs to be looked at. How do we provide increasing demand on electricity and not keep the rates going, the distribution rates keep going up? So lots of talk about that. It affects every single county in the state, and obviously affordability is huge, and we all need to pay for electricity, so it affects everybody. So we did learn about that. Oh, the next thing that we've been talking about that's coming up, we have a lot on our plate, we've been talking about retirement villages and homes and the product that, the zoning that goes with it and the product that we're getting that is not necessarily an age-appropriate product and we're trying to have some discussion with another consultant about what do we how do we make sure we take care of our retirees in an affordable way and allow them to have the kind of product they want to live in when they maybe they want to downsize they need maintenance free and I don't believe they need a three-story townhouse that's very expensive that they we're trying to figure out what do we put on properties and how do we make sure it's handicap accessible so people can stay in their homes and age if they decide to to move into one of these retirement villages or homes and to make sure that they really are appropriate for the aging population. So those opportunities for discussion are coming up in the next month here. People can write in about it. There's a lot on our website. The Planning Commission has been talking about these things for a long time, for months. So whether it has to do with land use or parking expectations that people have parking that's available when you're older, that's in close proximity to where they live versus none or two football fields away. We're trying to get those those identification of those issues in place so that our senior population always say how we treat our seniors. is a sign of our morality, because that's the folks we should be taking care of. I wanted to mention Roberta, Ms. Windham. I don't like goodbyes. I don't say goodbye to people. I hate goodbye parties. I'd never say goodbye. I'd say good luck, and you have a new chapter. I was in that chapter for two and a half years, and it's really nice. It really is. Retirement is very nice. So enjoy it. I'm not saying goodbye. I'm not going to pretend that we're not having a goodbye lunch. It's just a celebration lunch because I don't want to cry. And the last thing I have to do, my mother shares a birthday with your father today. She is 92 and she doesn't like anyone to know her age. too late so don't tell anybody that I told you that she was 92 and when we had her 90th birthday she didn't want me to tell anybody her age but it was her 90th birthday so mom sorry I can't spend the day with you I did go to Chick-fil-a and bought her peach milkshake yesterday and that's that was that made her happy and Happy birthday. Happy birthday to her. Two of our parents that raised us, I think we did pretty well. Happy birthday to mom and dad.

Does it make you siblings? No.

He was born in another country. My mother was born in Baltimore. It's sort of interesting. My mother was born at home. I was born at Sinai Hospital a long, long time ago, and now I sit on the board for Sinai at the place I was born. So it's a small world here in Maryland and Carroll County.

You never know what paths your life will take you.

Right.

Very interesting. Interesting ride.

Very well said, very well said, and thank you to all of my colleagues for their continued dedication, commitment, and participation in our county community. So I just have two very quick things today myself. So first of all, I have the honor of joining in the ribbon cutting for the formal opening of the newly renovated wing of the Tawny Town Senior Center this past week. It was previously unfinished and used for storage, but the space is now going to accommodate everything from stained glass cutting to pool, various classes, groups, clubs, activities, and more. I am incredibly grateful to all four of my colleagues up here as well for their continued commitment to supporting that expansion. I'm also incredibly grateful for Center Manager Erica Starr, to Wyatt Abend, and the crew for the extraordinary work they did completing that section of the Senior Center. And I'm incredibly grateful to Celine Steckle, Gina Valentine, Rich Autone, and more, all of the Department of Citizen Services for their support of all of the senior centers around the county. We were also grateful to have Alex Kelly from the Tawny Town City Council there that day as well. But more than anyone, I want to offer my thanks and gratitude to Beverly Massacott and Carol Shanholtz, two residents who use that senior center, who let me and my fellow commissioners know that it was time for growth to occur there. It's interesting because we never quite know what is going on in certain places in the county unless people let us know. And when there is a need for change, when there is a need for growth, and we can work it into the budget, we are all certainly committed to making that happen. And I'm incredibly excited about what exciting things are coming in that new space. Second of all, I want to congratulate and encourage everyone to read the excellent Carroll News interview with Mayor Kevin Cornick of New Windsor. Mayor Cornick is a phenomenal elected official whose rootedness in New Windsor is widespread and he's very well loved. He's a kind, capable, professional, and humble public servant in District 1, and the county as a whole are blessed to have him. Again, please do check out the Carroll News story on Mayor Cornick of New Windsor. And last but not least, Tim, do you know if Roberta Windham is in the audience today? Well, I'd like to invite Roberta down to the front of the room, if she wouldn't mind. I have here a proclamation for her. And Deb, if you and anybody else want to come forward to join her at the front, we'd certainly be happy to have you.

Maybe this will help me . I'm crying.

Would you like the box of tissues we have up here?

Maybe you need them. We'll see.

So I have a proclamation for Roberta Windham, who, for many different reasons, all of them positive, is going to be retiring. We're certainly going to miss you. We're certainly going to feel your absence. We certainly understand why you are retiring. So I'm going to go ahead and read the proclamation, turn things over to you and Deb, and then we'll have a few words to say ourselves, and we'll do a photograph. Okay. we have a proclamation honoring the retirement of Roberta J. Windham. Whereas the Board of County Commissioners of Carroll County wishes to recognize and to honor the distinguished public service of Roberta J. Windham, who is retiring from her role as county administrator after 11 years of exceptional leadership and dedication. And whereas prior to her career in county government, Ms. Windham practiced private law, specializing in estates and trusts, demonstrating professionalism, integrity, and deep commitment to serving others. And whereas, Ms. Windham has long contributed to Carroll County government through service on key boards and commissions, including the Ethics Task Force in 2003 and the Board of Zoning Appeals from 2003 to 2009. And whereas, Ms. Windham began her formal career with Carroll County Government in 2011 as the media liaison for the Board of County Commissioners, bringing clarity, openness, and consistency to public communication. And whereas, in 2015, she was appointed county administrator, where she has been responsible for running the daily operations of county government, ensuring communication flows effectively, guiding directors and staff, and implementing the policies set forth by the elected officials. and whereas miss wyndham's leadership has resulted in significant accomplishments including fostering a more collaborative environment among departments and divisions and achieving one of the county's most notable milestones the aaa bond rating earned and maintained since 2018. And whereas, known for her reliable, steady, and thoughtful guidance, Ms. Windham embodies her leadership philosophy, lead with excellence, serve with grace, a standard she has upheld throughout her tenure without fail. And whereas, Ms. Windham now looks forward to the next chapter in her life, planning to travel extensively with her husband and to enjoy a well-deserved retirement. Now therefore, we, the Board of Carroll County Commissioners, do hereby express our deepest appreciation to Roberta J. Windham for her outstanding service, exemplary leadership, lasting contribute contributions to the people of carroll county adopted this 20th day of august 2026 signed to the entire board of carroll county commissioners thank you very much thank you and now i'll turn it over to the two of you

Oh, wow. Thank you. But Deb, I wasn't prepared. So I'm not going to put you on the spot. I do have a few words. I do.

Yeah, I have a lot more to say at the retirement luncheon. But I do want to thank you for your leadership, your mentorship, and your kindness. throughout my career here with Carroll County and I'm sure I'm talking on behalf of all all of the staff here and that how much you're going to be missed and I think I'll leave it at that it has been an honor really an honor and a privilege to serve Carroll County I moved to Carroll County in 1994 and one of the very first people I met was Commissioner Krebs

And somehow we got roped into all this public service stuff right away, and I've enjoyed it. I love Carroll County. I can't say I'm a Carroll County resident from birth like you can, unfortunately. My parents didn't pick the right place to have me born. I blame them every day for that. but Carroll County is a very special place I really do enjoy getting to talk about Carroll County when I I've said this many times before and I'm sorry to repeat it but when I go to things like Mako and Carroll County administrator conferences and things we talk about how We get something done. People are always saying, well, how does Carroll County get that done? You only have 800 staff. I mean, that's nothing. There are counties that are smaller than us have that many staff. We get it done because of who we are, because of the people. The staff here are beyond compare. They are just marvelous, and they have allowed me. If I've done anything well, it's because of the staff. And then not just the people in the county staff themselves, but the connections that we have with every agency. I mean, just look in the room today. I mean, we have the ARC, we have the VIP, We have the Board of Elections and probably missing some. And that's not unusual. And we're very connected. And we use that as a force multiplier for the betterment of our residents. And I'm just proud to be a part of that. And I look forward to being a resident and doing all the traveling, hopefully get to do all the things I like to do for many, many years with my husband and my family in the years to come, as we say. So thank you very much.

Thank you very much. And if I may say, you know, it stands to reason that if you do have a complaint, you have to go to your commissioner, not the rest of us.

Unfortunately for her, she knows where I know where she lives, as they say.

Robert, it really has been a blessing, a blessing to have been able to work these past four years with you. I'm certainly going to miss you. And of course, I have more to say this afternoon as well. But you have made this this role as a commissioner, this this work that much easier. You and everybody in this building and who works for this county. the love of this place, the love that you have for the people who work here, the love that you have for the people who live here. Again, it is absolutely humbling to have been able to work alongside you for the last four years with somebody who has that level of dedication, commitment, professionalism, and as Deb said so very well, kindness and that compassion. Again, I will certainly miss you. I know Deb will do a phenomenal job and your stead, but we are certainly going to miss you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Anybody?

Well, you did ask your typical question, or she actually answered your typical question before you got to it. But I do greatly appreciate all the hard work and dedication. I mean, it does show, and it's shown long before the five of us got here. Wish you the best. I have no doubt you'll be doing a lot of traveling. Enjoy the rest of the fun things you've got in line. I know we don't know what you're going to be up to, but I'm sure we'll see you at some point. And I think all of us will be there this afternoon. Thank you. But I absolutely appreciate all you've done, and it's been good working with you.

Thank you. Thank you.

And we expect you to continue to stay involved. We have all this free time. One thing we forgot to put on the little citation there is Roberta, after she moved here when her kids were small, she moved to Germany for three years. Three years? For a while, because she had an opportunity to go with her husband and kids, and they all know German, and they got to be – So they've lived abroad. That's why they like to travel abroad and want to go back. But Roberta started working in the community. She's always been community focused. And that's why we're all here, because we love our communities and want to make our communities all better. And I appreciate that. Some of the commissioners tapped her early on when they realized what a great asset she was and put her on the ethics panel, because we had some ethics issues back then, years ago. And I think they knew that this was somebody that was honest and could work through some of those issues. And then they tapped her for the Board of Zoning Appeals. I don't know if you were the first woman on it, but one of the first.

Yeah, one of the first.

And all those experiences help you learn how the inner things work in the county. And I think everyone saw what an asset you were. And everybody wanted you. So then Commissioner Howard tapped you and went to five commissioners. And the one thing that I don't think people appreciate is that you have five bosses that that you're trying to read their minds sometimes because we don't communicate or we have different ideas about things. And communication is important because you're trying to figure out what do they really want to do, what do they really want to say. So it's not so simple working for five people that you really don't know what they're trying to do. Not all the time, but we do try to communicate. But it's not a simple job. And sometimes people say, well, Roberta, this, well, Roberta has to somehow professionally try to interpret what we would like to have done, what's best for the county, and make those decisions and keep things running. And I think you're very well respected with our staff. I know that. You're always listening. You're always level-headed, even when sometimes we're not all like that. I know that I have not been. as level-headed recently than I used to be, because you get emotional about things because you care about them, and we appreciate that. So I thank you for, you told me you were going to retire this early. You're too young to retire, I believe, but we appreciate your work. It's a 24-7 job. I mean, the emergencies that come up, and then we get a text from Roberta that everything, no matter what the emergency is, you know, she's on it, and making sure that our staff knows what they're doing and have processes in place but there's always good to have someone at the top that is spreading that information keeping the calm and dealing with unexpected fires that you never would anticipate and it's been done well and I think the county that we represent It makes it that way. As you said, it's our staff, and it's also the people in it and all the organizations that we work with collaboratively. It is an incredible place. And I've said that for many, many years at the state level. We just don't sometimes appreciate it. But that doesn't mean we can't always be getting better. But we start here. And it really comes from the top. And bottom appreciates it. They're not the bottom. Every single person in this organization is important. But you're at the top of that echelon, and we thank you. And I'm not saying goodbye. I'm just going to say thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Well said, Commissioner Krebs. Yes, obviously. Thank you very much. I know how much you appreciate your staff. You alluded to the fact that we don't have a lot of really as many county employees as people might realize. And you've got a very small staff. It's five or six people. And it is an awful lot of work, and it is very busy back there. And I know you're very appreciative of those folks. And as Commissioner Krebs alluded to, the commissioner form of government is difficult. It is not an easy one, but it is the best one. And it is the best one for Carroll County, especially in 2026, in a state where it's increasingly difficult to exercise home rule and sovereignty. It's not easy, but it works. And nothing really worthwhile is ever easy, right? So you have made that process much easier. And I want to thank you for that. And I wish you all the best.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

And we will miss you, and you've gotten enough accolades, so I want to talk about the future. you're gonna be active I know you are and unfortunately I think I think people like me but I've been to court a lot I've been sued a lot I've never lost so when you decide to be an active attorney again what's your hourly rate I want to get that clarified now. What's your hourly rate to defend me?

Are you suggesting you're going to put a retainer out now?

Thank you for everything.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Any final words for us?

Just thank you. A lot of thank yous today. Thank you very much. ready for your photograph commissioners and then we'll bring everybody okay I was gonna say okay great

Alright everybody, right here.

There we go.

Now everybody up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's up to you. I'll take it from you.

Now, I don't want any memories of... All right, everybody try to get in there.

Short people in the front.

Ted in the back.

You want to go back up here? Get a couple people back up here too in the second row.

Mr. Kyle, can you move over to your left a little bit? There you go.

Don't worry, Ted.

Tim doesn't need that chair.

I'm just going to Photoshop me in. Alright, everybody right here. Smile.

Very good, thank you.

Can we have someone in the audience? I trust you. I trust you, Erin.

I'm adding this to my list. You got it.

Sure.

This is really high tech.

What button do I push?

I'm used to a cell phone.

Watch your step.

Well, thank you, sir.

We're not OSHA certified.

All right, everybody ready? Everybody say, Roberta. Roberta.

Roberta, do you want to tell everybody to get back to work now?

Get back to work.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.

All right. Well, with Priority Carol now taken care of, item number two, we have a post-primary election report from the Board of Elections with Erin Perrone.

This is a tough act to follow. I don't know. I feel like I should come back another day. Good morning, Commissioners. Good morning. For those of you that don't know me, I'm Erin Perrone. I'm your Elections Director here in Carroll County. First, I want to thank you. I know you guys are very busy, but I'm not going to take too much of your time. My purpose for being here today, and it's actually kind of... adequate after what Roberta said, I want to publicly thank some of the staff at Carroll County who support and guide my staff and I so that we are able to execute successful elections for the voters of Carroll County. So I won't, again, I won't take too much of your time, but first I need to thank Dorothy and Jeff and I am going to say names and I will forget people. I know that. So my apologies ahead of time. But first I want to thank Dorothy, Jeff and anybody else they work with in production services. They print over 600 of our election judge manuals. They also print last minute letters, flyers, whatever we need to mail. So thank you to Dorothy, Jeff and all the, all the folks in production services. because they do that sometimes we get credit for what you say oh that's okay whatever works um i also want to thank gina valentine and richa tone their support at the westminster senior center and the south carol senior center during early voting is top notch also lisa and candy at wrexham parks who support us at the charles carroll community center during early voting as well A summertime primary means summertime thunderstorms, tornadoes. We had a heat dome, obviously, and also duratios. So I need to thank I was hoping she was still here, but I need to thank Valerie Hawkins. She replied to my weekend text messages during early voting and phone calls about the severe weather, threats of weather. And also, I need to thank Justin McGonnell. He's from facilities. He was always on standby for my staff and I in case we lost power and we needed generators. So I need to tell Valerie and Justin, and I think they know this, I am my own worst enemy. And if something bad is going to happen, it's going to happen. So thank you for putting me at ease. I also need to thank Rick Hofheinz. He's also from facilities. He always knows what I need or what we need, and he always knows where he needs to be. So thank you, Rick. I would be remiss if I did not thank Sixten and his crew, Ben, Patrick, Rebecca. They make sure our cameras are always working on our ballot drop boxes and that there's no gaps in our security. So thank you to that team. As we got closer to Election Day, we found that we had a small shortage of folks to serve as election judges on Election Day. So I need to thank Christy Bixler. She's the Director of Human Resources, I believe. She helped us fill those vacancies by sending a mass email to all the county employees. So then... course. Oh, I also need to thank Samantha Rebert, who also works in human resources, but I think she's responsible for processing all that election judge paperwork. Again, over 600 packets of information. Thank you for working so well with my staff. And then those county employees who stepped up at the last moment to serve as an election judge. I always say that once you work as an election judge, election gets into your blood. So I'll see you all in September or October for your next training class. Lexi, my budget analyst, Jordan, Michelle, and all the accounts payable crew, it was close to the end of the fiscal year. Again, a summertime primary. So there were cutoff days where I couldn't spend money, but I needed stuff because we're actively in an election. So thank you guys for always being there when I had questions and I needed guidance from you. Ray, Jennifer, Joe, and the building supervisors of all the public schools that we use as polling places, they were there Monday night to make sure the election judges could set up for Tuesday, and they were there very, very early Tuesday morning on election day to make sure those polling places were open, and we all opened on time by 7 a.m., so thank you. I also need to protect I don't know I need to thank the sheriff's department they thank you for protecting my staff and I the election judges the voters there's a fine line sometimes between police presence and voter intimidation and the deputies know they're so professional and they're very responsive and they know what they can and cannot do but and they also know when they're needed Lastly, I want to thank all the election judges who served during early voting and on election day. My staff and I, we were talking about staff. I have a staff of 10 people, including myself. So my staff and I can't be at all three early voting centers or 25 polling places on election day. So we could not do that without you. And again, I'll see you soon for training class when you come back in the general. again I know I probably forgot to forgot some people so please accept my apologies feel free to email me you guys know my email address but from the bottom on behalf of my staff I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart thank you we could not do it without you and there's truly not enough words to express how grateful how much we appreciate you your guidance your knowledge and your continued support I just have to say personally I do watch the meetings every Thursday if I can or I catch them later at night when I'm folding clothes but this staff here in Carroll County are so knowledgeable makes me a little jealous a little envious with with Chris Chris coming up here talking about all that stuff or pipes in in a road it just amazes me So I do have stats, but I'm open for questions. I know you all have a busy day. If I don't know the answer, of course, I'll get it to you. You're always open to email me.

Well, Erin, I just want to start off by saying, first of all, thank you to you and your team, the Board of Elections, the election attorney, everybody who's involved on your side of things, making our elections go as smoothly as they do. As everybody knows, elections are absolutely integral to who we are as Americans and who we are in this county. And I think it certainly is a demonstrative testament to the amazing job that you and everybody do, because we're not waiting around for months to get election results. I mean, we have them that night. We have them the same night. We know these things within hours of the polls closing. And that's thanks to you and the amazing work that you and everybody do. And so, I mean, again, I look at other counties, other states, and see the difficulties and the messes that they create, often of their own doing. But we do not have that problem here. And again, it's incredible caliber of the people that we have serving our elections here, serving our citizens through the elections. And I think it probably also stands to reiterate what you said about how encompassing and involved an election is. It isn't just a couple machines getting rolled into a building. I mean, you have everything from security to the technology to the entire act of the vote itself. all the different departments that are involved, all the different places, all the different people. And it's really the people that we could not do without to make the elections what they are. So thank you so very much from the bottom of my heart for everything that you and everybody do to make the elections as successful as they are in this county.

Lily, thank you. It's our pleasure. Again, it's in our blood.

I wanted to comment that elections have changed dramatically over the last 10, 15 years. Went from one day, we all showed up to vote, and now we have so many different opportunities to vote. And I wanted to ask you a question about turnout. Has turnout been increased, or how has it done since we've done the different types of opportunities to vote?

Great. I'm glad you asked that question. So in general of all the four elections that we have a presidential primary and general election and a gubernatorial primary and general election, our gubernatorial primary election is always has always have the lowest voter turnout. It's historically, it's a fact. Um, across the county, Carroll County, we had 25.98% turnout. So let's round it up to 26. But we had a 26% turnout for Carroll County. And then I can also tell you that across the whole early voting election day vote by mail statistics, we had about 20% of voters vote during early voting, 48.91% of voters vote on election day. Say that again? That's interesting. Oh, sure. 48.91% of voters in Carroll County, and this is just for the primary, of course, voted on election day. Election day is still more popular here in Carroll County. And then 28.34% of voters voted by mail or a mail-in ballot.

That's interesting data. It's always interesting to me. the highest turnouts in the presidential election. And we have they have the least we have the least impact. You still should vote, but the least impact a vote on that than anything in the primaries in the gubernatorial race is where you elect all your your little Carol, mostly in the state of Maryland, your local elected officials, which impact you more directly and you have more of an impact with your vote. But yet that's the least turnout. So somehow we got to educate people that, you know, if you really want to know what is happening, that you can be impacted your one vote. It makes a lot more difference. in Maryland in your primary elections in the gubernatorial race cycle. I want to thank you. With all these new opportunities to vote, I didn't know about overall turnout for the state. I was in the legislature for years when all these things, we have to give more people opportunity to vote. and it seems like we're not getting a lot more total turnout they're just voting differently and we so with the mail-in ballots not easy to do making sure everybody's eligible and with um early voting now seven days eight days i think it's too many days i like a little bit but you know eight days a long time And it's expensive. It's expensive to run elections. It's become way more expensive than it used to be to have all these opportunities, and we wish people would take advantage of it. But I want to thank you because of early voting being so many days, we used to do them in our schools on that one day. School was closed, and you could get your elections done. Now we can't do that because we have all these other things. So we have some schools, but we had to use some other facilities. But the setup and breakdown. 32?

97 that little median strip so we have 49 precincts we have one ballot style for each precinct in a primary you have to have a ballot style for each Democrat each Republican voter so that's why there's 98 in a primary when our unaffiliated or third-party voters or have this Board of Education to vote on that would be 147 ballot styles in a primary But in the general election, we'll have 49.

And I just never appreciated that till we got involved with redistricting years ago. Yes. Because you have your federal elections and districts with their Congress. And then you have it with your local house races and Senate races. And you have it with now your commissioner by district. And they're all not the same. Correct. And that's why there's so many different ballot styles. And just I know there was a ballot mix up at the state level this year. I don't know how it's not more mixed up more frequently with getting them printed and mailed out incorrectly. But Just appreciate just getting those ballots correct So the person gets the right ballots with the right names on it in itself with 98 different ballot styles is a Organizational feat so we appreciate that as well.

Thank you. Thank you very much any other comments.

Yeah I'd like to thank you for a couple of things one for thanking so many staff that was That was awesome I send you a number of emails. I ask some hard questions, and I ask some easy questions, and you always answer. And I want to do an example. I had a citizen reach out to me, and I might have the facts a little mixed, but she essentially wanted to take a birthday cake to one of your poll workers at a poll. and and so she asked me if she could and i said my dog ain't that fight but i know who can answer you well i got a text oh my gosh she answered me quickly you know and and she actually got back to me and it's the middle of elections and she answered me so thank you absolutely you're welcome and she didn't tell you that um i needed a piece of that cake as well

No, I stayed at the office. You're welcome. And that's what we're here for, especially during an election time.

just be really brief but i do greatly appreciate all the collaboration you mentioned obviously county staff today but it's county staff it's you know residents it's your staff it's everybody and that and you know i say this all the time but it is one of the things we do so well in this community is we work together we collaborate because that's how we get things done and you know it's a monumental text that you have in front of you and i know you know that your staff knows that but i sometimes don't think the public realizes how blessed we are to have you all doing what you do and I've said this several times but I'll say it again if anyone has the time after you vote and we all know that process go watch the absentees counted watch that process that's a very important process that I don't think most people take the time to follow and understand but it is a process that if you go in and you watch that process And I will say this, I think we do that very well as a voting process in Carroll County, probably better than most places. I don't have any concerns in Carroll County. I know there's been comments made over the past few years about concerns about voter irregularities and things, but I think the people you have as staff, volunteers, and everybody involved take that so incredibly serious. And I'm not making it political, but yes, it is every... party involved in that it is not one party versus another it is everybody collaboratively and i think that's a true testament and only to your leadership and your staff but what we do well in this community is which is we work well together so as always thank you yes absolutely you're welcome yeah thank thanks again aaron and um it's uh it

The amount of work you and your staff do, and you were being modest because the election year cycle started even much earlier than you mentioned, where it seems like every other person in Carroll County decides they want to run for office and they want to go ahead and register. And you're working through that entire process. And then the deadlines for all that got changed over and over again. And there were questions about that. And to Commissioner Carlos point, I reached out to you a few times for clarification on things. And yeah, miraculously, you responded to me immediately. So thank you so much. A local elections matter so much. And people don't always realize that, but they do. Local elections matter. And you make that happen. And I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you very much. You're welcome.

And do you have any questions for us?

Oh, no. Just don't forget to vote November 3rd as election day. Early voting will start Thursday, October 22nd. Go through October 29th. Does not include Halloween this year, so don't wear your costumes.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you very much. Have a great day.

Well, if Erin is watching your meetings in the evening, I think we need to chip in and get her a Netflix.

Usually when I'm folding clothes or something, I'm listening.

He's trying to be an active citizen, informed. We appreciate that. Thank you all. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you very much.

Congratulations, Roberta. Thank you.

All right. Up next, item number three, LED lighting upgrades to baseball fields at Sandy Mount Park. Bob, good to see you.

Good morning, Commissioners.

So before you, the, this morning commissioners, uh, to go ahead and upgrade the, uh, baseball field lighting at San Diego map park. Um, we've done a number of upgrades in the last year, uh, which includes freedom, uh, my ASCII and deer park, um, to upgrade the athletic fields, um, from regular, uh, bulbs to led for energy savings, um, for maintenance, um, saving on maintenance upgrades and all that. And, um, this program is, uh, through BG and ease, energy saver program, which is part of Maryland Energy Administration and empowered program that actually funds 100% of the upgrades for these bulbs there. So we want to go ahead and get them in. So almost all my fields are done except for Bennett. Sure. If that's my last battle, I'm going to be fighting for that one.

So any comments, questions or direction from the board?

thank you for taking advantage thank you um you worked with the school system when they had their emergency for two fields and uh i think um the community college is using similar led lights and and could you just briefly tell us um ccps told me a little but People worry about light pollution so much, but you can walk around with your iPhone on the field and adjust them, correct?

Correct. With the newer ones, they actually are done through the phone app that actually turns them off and do that. And most of them have the shields that basically we kind of want to promote like dark skies kind of thing so we're not bleeding the light into the neighbor's yard. I mean, some of the lights we put in are pinpoint accuracy to the point where you can actually just step off the field one portion, and you're pitch black, and then you're prone, and it's all lit up. So it's pretty amazing.

I move the Board of County Commissioners authorize the Department of Recreation and Parks to coordinate with BG&E and their respective subcontractors to upgrade the existing baseball field lighting at Sandy Mount Park to LEDs.

Second. We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much, Bob. All right, up next, item number four, approval to sign a new lease for the Carroll County Sheriff's Office.

Morning, Commissioners. Brian Boeke, Director of Public Works. I'm joined here with Vicki McDonald from Carroll County Sheriff's Office to discuss the approval to sign a new lease. If you remember a couple years back, this is kind of a copy and paste from what we did with the Board of Elections. So it was ironic that Aaron was here. Same sort of situation. They were able to find a space that fit all their needs, and now we're going to go through the process LEASE PORTION AND THE BUILDOUT PORTION. SO I'LL HAND IT OVER TO VICKI TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

Good morning, Commissioner. Good morning. So we're before you. Basically, I'll kind of summarize what's in the background. We currently have a smaller space looking to move into a different location, into a more prominent location in Eldersburg Commons. We've been working with the property owner designs. The project was included before you for this current fiscal year budget. So that's all been taken care of. And the last piece is to get your approval to basically sign the lease. We're working through all the details of that. um we're going to have it ready shortly but in order to keep moving with the timeline to be able to move in early summer hopefully with everything lining up we just wanted to go ahead and get your approval to do that as soon as it's ready so we can keep moving well thank you very much are there any questions comments or direction from the board how does this align with the lease that you're leaving that's why but it will the timing will okay yes thank you that's part of the plan thank you that's perfect

Move the Board of Commissioners approve the Department of Public Works to move forward and execute the lease for space for the Carroll County Sheriff's Office. Second.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. All right. Up next, item number five, a grant approval to submit application and acceptance of award for the FY26 Buses and Bus Facilities Program. Good morning, Stacy. How are you?

Good. How are you?

Doing well, thank you.

I'm going to hand it right over to Stacy because she knows the transit bus grant state stuff way better than me.

We're here this morning to request your approval to submit an application and accept funding under the Bus and Bus Facilities Grant. This is a federal grant that we will be applying to in conjunction with the state of Maryland. Through this application, we are planning to request funding for two replacement buses. Historically, we've received three buses from MTA on our annual grant program that you hear from us in the beginning of the year every year. This year, however, we were only awarded one bus from MTA. So in discussions with MTA, it appears that this one bus award is going to be our foreseeable future. So we're looking at other avenues of finding some funding to keep our replacements on schedule. Um, in our annual application to MTA, we requested funding for four vehicles and budgeted that appropriate match. So while there's no state match available for this federal grant, the federal share is 85%. So our local match would be 15%, which is the same percentage as what we're paying with the state match on our state grant. We would purchase these buses through the Maryland state contract. So purchase pricing would remain the same. And because we had already budgeted for those four buses, the total local match required for these two buses would remain below our budgeted amount for bus purchases. If both are awarded, our local match would be $34,592. Therefore, we're requesting your approval to submit the application and accept the award if awarded.

Thank you very much. Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

I move the Board of Commissioners approve the submission of the FY26 Grants for Buses and Bus Facilities Program application and accept the FY26 grant award. Second.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right. Up next, item number five. I'm sorry, item number six, presentation discussion by VIP and ARC for a future facility for veterans and other uses and the land that it would encompass. and we have public comment for it as well so maybe uh maybe we want to bring down jason and we want to maybe we should go through the presentation first and then we'll open it up to public comment and commissioner comments so jason please come on down oh yeah don why don't you come down too or whoever's going to present whoever's with you for mark thanks to thanks for the reminder mike morning gentlemen good to see you both morning thanks for having us

First off, let me say thank you. Thank you on behalf of the veterans of Carroll County. VIP is moving along a path and we found a great need from the veterans in Carroll County. particularly our Vietnam era veterans. As I don't have to tell you guys, I'm preaching to the choir. When they came home, how they were treated, the fact that when VA offers certain benefits, they're not even provided a letter. And we know who they all are. But so when you get a veteran walks in and they find out, wow, I'm entitled to that. I can get medical or I can get this. And you see game changers for these families who are struggling and what we've been able to do with the staff that we do, some of the veterans that are in attendance today. And it's not just benefits. It's about providing them a place. We've outgrown the current place that we're in. We can open up the services we provide on so many levels. And this path of why we're in here today to talk about a private government partnership on potentially being able to attain some surplus property to allow us to build the Freedom Center, which we did receive federal funding through commonly called earmarks, but congressionally directed funding, community initiative funding. And so we also are being asked to put, well, anyone can apply, but we're being prompted to put back in for that at the beginning of the year, uh, to ask for another 4 million from them. And we expect that that would possibly come to fruition. Uh, this path has taken us down a road where we've got a partnership with the arc And the property will allow us to do everything we want. It allows us to put it on a mile-long walking path to help educate the community. They can come out, walk, and have monuments for different wars and or conflicts. But with the ARC, it allows us to create this partnership that allows both of us to move forward and help the folks that we help. And then I understand HSP is talking to say, hey, is there a potential we could grab small piece and so we look at it from a standpoint that we're being entrusted with it in the end yes from you the county commissioners but whatever we can do to make it a true community piece of property and benefit the community as a whole then everyone's benefited so we're at the commissioner's mercy to say it would be a great benefit to take to get this land through a partnership so that we're able to take the money that we're bringing in to go and actually apply to building and improving it

Jason, if you wouldn't mind, could you walk through the Freedom Center and what you envision for this and everything it'll do and encompass?

Yes, sir. So the Freedom Center, if any of you have ever had a chance to tour or go over to the Goodwill facility in Frederick, which is a Veterans Service Center, they had invited me over, and I took that and went over and did it. That model works great for Frederick. It's not necessarily a model for here in Carroll, but having something like that. So we envision ensuring there's plenty of office space built from the get go so that any nonprofit that provides a service to veterans or their families in Carroll County could have an office free of charge. The hopes would be that a veteran or their family members could come to the Freedom Center and get and questions answered services or at least leave there with everything that they need to start with those services in under one roof. the fact that we would have the space to hold activities for the community, whether it be, we talked to her. One of you mentioned a something about a new scam. There's scams every day that are targeting our veterans. Many of our veterans fall into several categories that are, well, we've got banks, we've got different organizations that want to come in and offer those classes. If I had the space, we would be running those. So then you can offer those to veterans and their families and the community and it's free of charge. It's just these different organizations want to do these things, whether it's a financial planning class, whatever it is, we've got, um, psychiatrists through VA who, if we had a facility, they'd be willing to try to do some offsite and bring care closer into Carroll County. So our veterans such as myself, aren't having to travel. mean Frederick's the closest but you can't always get care there so the sky's the limit on what we can do with the Freedom Center it's just the planning that goes into making sure we've thought of everything because really anything that we want to do can be done that's incredible and Don I understand that you have some interest in is the presentation gonna be shown I don't know if we have it queued up for the

i think it would be good if the public would see it and i have a bunch of questions referencing it but which i'm fine with but oh yeah i just i just have one more question kenny and then i can kick it over to you i have one more question no no no i just wondered if the pres the presentation is not up oh there we go okay and you you had said they were going to go through it um i think that would be great

Would you like me to speak? Yeah, Jason, why don't you warn Riv? Absolutely. I just didn't know if you were going to take a different tact than going through the presentation, so that was my fault.

So obviously we talk about community partnerships, the Arc of Carroll County sitting here next to me, the partnership that that's going to allow, DAV, VFW, American Legion, and then there's just so many organizations that we've partnered with over the last five years that we can't even mention them all, but whether it be Bridging Life, just it goes on and on. Any questions on that one, or do you want me to go through the whole thing, and then you guys can ask your questions? What would you like? Freedom Center, to what we were talking about, computer lab, gym, community meeting rooms, office space, as I said, to accommodate veteran service organizations. Like I said, I'm repeating myself, but it's just to potentially allow veterans and their families to come under one roof and help get those resources and or have the answers to it. Freedom Center. Currently we have the one million, uh, as I said in here, federal earmarks, you know, the congressionally directed funding. We have pledged five million from local and national organizations. We also have been encouraged to apply for earmarks again and we look to get four million from that. This is a plot just to, you know, it's just an idea drawing once this year is the parking that would be open to the community so that the community could come out, have a mile long walking path. We've got companies that are willing to at a reduced and or possibly donated for asphalt to jump in and say, we're ready to do this. We'll help out. We've got national concrete company that's ready to come in and say, once again let's talk but it would be at a severely reduced or possibly donated to all concrete work so we've got companies that want to get in and wants to help we just got to move forward as you see the freedom center you've got the parking and then a proposed layout for the arc now this is all proposed where it goes on the property will be to the best benefit of of what we do and where we need to place people so

All right. Thank you very much. And Don, did you want to speak at all to the potential for ARC on this property?

Yeah. Well, thank you, Commissioners. It's always a pleasure. So, yeah, when I became familiar with the project and getting to know Jason a little better, it just seemed like another wonderful way to be able to collaborate and help people in the community. really from the ARC's interest, what we are hoping to do is for people with disabilities that the group home model that we have had for many, many years doesn't work as well, so we have some folks that are somewhat independent and just need kind of light touch services. And so we thought perhaps a one bedroom condo or house or apartment might be suitable for them. And along with talking with some other nonprofit organizations, low income seniors. I had the opportunity to work on the work group last year for the master plan for the county and my, One of my takeaways was these are some populations that need some extra support. So when I saw this, I was like, wow, that's really attractive. And our vision at this point is to do quad units. So they would be buildings with four apartments that we would find a suitable place on the property to locate. we would probably apply to the community development block grant. So we I'd be asking the county to be the grantee so that we could be the sub grantee for planning money because, you know, the feasibility of doing a project like that is really important. And I don't want to run into this if there's going to be other issues or consequences that I'm not seeing at this point. So that's really where I'm looking to go. I'm not quite as far along as Jason is with this, but just the prospect of some land that could help with some of the housing needs. We'd look to do maybe about 32 units, so 32 people could be impacted with this. And I'll just close by saying, you know, the gift of land that you gave us for those two homes is making a huge difference. And so we've been able to leverage that gift of land. And I think we're working with about 90 different partners and donors and organizations and funders to really build some wonderful homes there on Sullivan Road with the land that you gifted us. So want to take it to another level and try to help more people in the community. And so, um, as Jason and I talked, it just seemed like a good collaboration, um, between some organizations to, um, help with some of the needs of the people in the community.

Well, thank you both very much. Roberta, who do we have for public comment?

Uh, first, excuse me. First card I have is Aaron Barna.

Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Erin Barna. I'm an active member at the VIP. I'm also an active member and senior vice commander for our disabled American veterans local chapter. And I'm also an active member of our American Legion post 200, 200, no, sorry, 31. I've got too many numbers in my head. VIP, this would be a fabulous set up where it's located and everything that they plan to offer that Jason has mentioned to you DAV we do not have an office we go to the library sometimes we go to the people's homes when we help them with their paperwork to submit for their veterans benefits so being able to actually have a local office that would mean the world to us which is what they're offering then as their mission is the need drives the mission we have the needs of our veterans of their spouses and of their minor children to be able to help out main thing is having a place to be able to educate them there's so much out there for our veterans that they either don't realize or they don't believe that they're worthy of it that's the way i was in the beginning i didn't i wasn't deployed i'm not eligible i'm not worthy but I'm a hundred percent disabled permanent in total now and that was with the help of VIP everything that they plan on offering a chapel there as well it is a great thing because all of us veterans believe in God to some degree and being able to have that chapel there in that veteran community would be an outstanding benefit for us everything that they offer the larger meeting space right now we outgrew the the conference room at vip very quickly so now we're having a meet at the mason's lodge luckily they've been donating that space we're almost outgrowing that at this point before vip and dav all i did was work i was an or nurse here at our hospital but i couldn't work any longer my children are grown i didn't have friends I not only have friends, I have brothers. And they can be irritating as most brothers are at times. But I love them. And it's because of VIP, my DAV, that I actually have people I can count on in my life besides my family. And that is a big boost to my mental health as well. so having vip having a bigger place for us having what they offer and then also being able to open up to the community would benefit not only the large veterans presence here in carroll county but other areas that are coming to vip for help but it would benefit the community as well so i hope you would go ahead and approve our properties so that we can get rolling on this so that we can help

more veterans and continue helping the veterans that we are thank you for your time thank you very much good morning oh wow I want to say this about VIP with them being in my life I have no fear of the future and no pain from the past you know five years ago I was being treated for prostate cancer. I'm still being treated. I'm on injections to sustain my life. But five years ago, I had both knees replaced. Four years ago, 10 screws put in my back. Two years ago, my hip replacement. I'm a Vietnam-era vet that's dealing with Agent Orange. I went there five years ago, and they changed my life. I'm gonna be honest, they changed my life. I had a place to get up and go to instead of driving all the way to Martinsburg, West Virginia. Recently I just started going to Frederick and that's a long way for me to sit and drive. They give me the opportunity to get out of my head and feel like I'm a part of a family. And that's a thing that veterans need the most is to feel like we belong. After being neglected for so long, I did 21 years in the military. I'm a Vietnam-era vet with Agent Orange cancer. And I did Devil's Storm, Devil's Shield. And look at me today. I'm 72 years old, November. But I was not feeling like this prior to five years ago. I had to get mental health from Martinsburg because I had no way to go. To get up in Des Moines and go someplace and feel like, hey, I can be part of this community. But just to sit at home and lay in the bed and be in pain and feeling sorry for yourself, VIP gave me the ability to feel better. And we need this new building very, very bad. I'm going to Frederick right now. And what VIP is going to give me is just prevent me from having to get on the highway and drive and make me sometimes say, I don't feel like going that far. So we definitely need this facility. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

And the last one is Vincent John.

You still look pretty spry to me, Vince.

44 months. I'll be 90.

God bless you, brother.

Good morning, everyone. I begin by thanking, I'm Vincent of Tawny Town. That's in Carroll County. I'm a chaplain with the VIP and also with the American Legion Post 120 in Taunting Sound. But I thank each one of you. We appreciate you. And may God bless you for all you do and for all you have given for service to our county, and especially to one of you who has given most of her life. I won't mention Susan Cripps. Our VIP mission is simple but urgent, to honor the service of our military veterans by ensuring that they are never left behind. As you know, these brave men and women signed a blank check to protect their freedom, payable for up to their very lives. Yet right now, many of them are fighting the toughest battle of their lives right here at home in their own community. The reality is devastating. We have veterans sleeping on streets here. Countless others face severe mental health crises, struggling with suicidal thoughts in silence. To make matters worse, many are trapped in bureaucratic red tape, unable to access on their own the very benefits they rightly earned through their sacrifice to the United States of America. At the Veterans Independence Project, we work tirelessly to catch these veterans before they fall. But we cannot do it alone. We need and appreciate your continued advocacy, your legislative support and funding to expand our outreach to beloved needy military vets. As you well know, with your help, our VIP vision is to build a new comprehensive service facility right here in Westminster. This will not be just a building. It will be a collaborative system. We're bringing together hopefully housing specialists, mental health professionals, benefit advocates, and partner organizations under one single roof. By unifying our resources, the Veterans Independent Project and our partners in Partners to Be can eliminate the barriers that keep local veterans from getting crucial, sustainable assistance. Our VIP can transition needy, impoverished veterans from the streets into stable housing, provide immediate crisis intervention, and fast track their earned benefits. Indeed, your grateful support is a vital catalyst for this transformation. I thank you for listening to my take on this matter and I thank you for your past support and thank you for standing with the Veterans Independence Project as we build a future worthy of our veterans. I'm very grateful for each one of you right here. I thank God for you. And right now, I join with my fellow brother and sister vets in prayer for God's guidance as you and we together effectively serve our community. I pray to our Heavenly Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, for his very best plan to continually unfold for you and each of your family members. We thank God for the intellectual gifts he's given all of you on the day I was here, and for the hearts to serve. In Jesus' name I pray, amen.

Well, thank you very much for that, Vince. Thank you very much for that. Roberta, do we have anybody else for public comment? So I believe we... I was just about to check. So Matt or Chris, I don't know who's back there manning the line. Do we have anybody on the line for a public comment?

All clear, sir.

All right. Thank you very much. I know that some of my colleagues have questions. And Commissioner Kyler, I think you wanted to ask a couple of things.

yes yes and uh i'll preface it with uh i'm a senior i'm a veteran um vips has a great group this is a great project um coincidentally i was invited to go to the goodwill veterans center tomorrow but when i told them the three or four other things i had they said you you can't get here and back in that time so uh hopefully Fridays evidently are the key day out there and I'd love to get one. um we had no briefing paper um so i assume there's no decision to be planned today um i think this is an awesome opportunity i have a lot of questions and this gives me the opportunity to ask them this project's a great benefit for carroll county much needed in carroll county and i don't question that do you have the site plan again

and and while you're doing that um will you do this with an architect or a project manager i think it was an adobe photoshop or i'm sorry adobe photo document you know adobe reader document pdf

You got that. Yeah, thank you. Will you do this with an architect or a project manager?

So with both, Commissioner, part of the community congressional funding, we have to bring on a consultant which would assist us as a project manager. It's just something we have to do. So we'll bring on a project manager, the consultant will work closely with them, and then we'll have an architect who's already started drafting up some potential ideas, and then we'll move from there.

So you'll have an architect. Oh, absolutely. Who isn't?

Well, right now it's being done out of state, and then it will be transferred. We haven't picked someone in state yet. It'll be Carol. We'll pick someone here in Carol who is licensed in Maryland.

And then you don't have a civil engineer yet?

No, sir, not yet.

This site, which I've brought up, is very challenging, and I'll get to that. Do you have a budget?

We do. Uh, once again, from a budget standpoint, we look at, uh, currently it's we're, we're, we're thinking eight and a half million dollars from start to finish. And a lot of that comes not, it's about a $10 million pro uh, project, but due to so many companies that are looking to donate, it will allow us to save costs.

So, uh, a part of that budget is the stormwater management, the reforestation, the home and the rock and the whole nine yards.

Well, there's been no requirements levied on the dust. I know that the stormwater management is on site. We've looked into that. We also know that there are state funds to tap into to help with maintaining that since it's previously there. And we understand that has to be done. You can see the walking path. We'll just incorporate around it so that we don't interfere with it. On the reforestation, once again, it was a conversation, but depending on what you, the commissioners, levy on us, yes.

Well, it's the staff and the laws. We can't waive that.

Yes, all that's been taken into it, the planning committee and what's been discussed, and again, there's state funds that would assist with that.

with federal earmarks do you have to furnish the cash flow or do they furnish the cash flow many of them you get reimbursed after you spend the money and i know you you guys have done a lot but you're very financially challenged and so i would you you probably can't do the cash flow but

So I don't know that I'd say we're financially challenged. We meet our budget that we put out and are able to continue providing those services. We've actually grown our staff this year due to some budget increase revenue.

Most nonprofits I deal with, I would recommend they have a year or two operating.

in the bank sure liquid sure and so that's why I say challenge that you guys are done great I'm not criticized no no I don't take it that way Commissioner and to answer your other question bond bills issued through the state typically you would have to spend the money and then be reimbursed like you said they've changed that even with the bond bills at the state where we can just pay turn in the invoices from contractors and they will pay them direct so earmarks professionally directed funding we don't have to have cash on hand because what happens is once, once we have a piece of property, we can go get certified with USDA. And the way that's been explained and all the process that we've been through with them, all I've got to do is turn in a invoice and they will send us the money to pay the contractor. So we're not going to have to have money in hand to do the project.

The 5 million in pledges are, are they in writing?

Verbally.

Okay. um and i would think again before before you start they need to be in writing um the site plan um and i've said before um this is a very challenging piece of property we after uh ccps threw off the general we completed cranberry elementary meekins did winner's mill and uh there was a reason they threw the general off was over rock and there's a There's a tunnel to nowhere near the stormwater management plan because they plan to put all the athletic fields here. And the CCPS decided it wasn't cost effective because of the rock. And that's why they went away.

Commissioner, if I could, I'll address that for you as well. So yes, I agree with you. Rock is a concern. But I think what's happened is, from a CCPS standpoint, when they discuss the rock, Yes, but they don't go all the way through that conversation. And what I mean by that is, they were also going to put Cranberry Station over there, as you're probably aware. So to come in and put a school there, it's hilly in the front of the property. We've had boots on the ground over there. And we've also talked to different large planners and people of the community. If you're putting a school, you're either going to bring in a lot of dirt, large retaining walls to make it level, or you're going to cut into that heel, which becomes, therefore, the rock issue. If you're going to put fields, once again, kind of hard to play football on a field that's not level, so you're either going to bring in a lot of dirt, retaining walls, or you're cutting into rock. To build the Freedom Center, if you look at the drawing, we're proposing that, and the drawing could be a little misleading, it's going to be back much closer to the tree line because it levels out in the back where rock won't become an issue because we're not going to be cutting into the side of a hill.

Well, that that's not correct. But I understand your and I've talked to people about this before, to put it in perspective, the front of the property, the from the, the lower corner on the slide to the upper corner, it falls 90 feet. And relatively level. on the property line where you're going to be next to be but but where the walking path is it falls almost 150 feet from the front corner so um i don't care if you want to put a playground there you're going to do some cuts and fills and the other problem with the property and and only seeing this a day ago um the arc is a hundred percent in a forest conservation easement Um, I don't know what can be done with that because the guys on vacation that could answer that question. But, um, there's at least two types and some you can move someplace else. Some you can't, um, you're doing a fair amount of clearing per this plan, a bunch. So you have a bunch of reforestation, which you can pay for do off off site. But, um, yeah, it's, you, If I were developing this property, I would have a geotech already. going out doing test holes and not have a civil engineer you've probably got two or three million in site work um and and that's okay on an eight or ten million dollar project but it's it's it's a it's a lot of money i i think um there's a lot of planning that needs to happen before you well i'll back up i've always said um you don't fall in love with piece of property um you never do and before you fall in love with this piece property you got a can the forest conservation be moved uh your work barn part of your path are all in forest conservation everything the ark wants is in forest conservation and if they would move to the front um you know that would be an issue and the stormwater management's there for the school but not for any proposed development so you'd probably need to double that and unfortunately with the we don't want to talk about mde you you've got bio areas you've got a lot of money in that i i think you need to look hard before you decide on a piece of property of the cost and the viability of of doing it and uh um you know and and uh i've been involved with properties much bigger than this and much more expensive than this you know so it's it's i i think and and i understand you guys love the concept and i understand that i love the concept for carroll county but you have to be practical and look at what it's going to cost and what's feasible to do and i wasn't involved when they wanted to put the school over there i've always said that the carroll county commissioners can find the worst piece of property in carroll county for a school and they're very good at it and they did here um primarily the current commissioners wanted this guy to get the money more than they wanted farrell to get the money and and that that made a poor poor selection for cranberry and winter's mill but uh and and the tunnel you know i i said when when they built the tunnel uh It was never going to be used, and it hasn't. But I just feel like there's a lot of questions about the budget, the piece of property, the cash flow of the job that needs to be looked at before you decide a piece of property. I were doing this project I'd probably be looking at three different properties right now you know you like I say you don't fall in love with a piece of property and not know that it has far as conservation the the county was going to do a bunch more reforestation here totally surrounding I don't know if you show it but they would probably be all of your parking lot in the Freedom Center and most of the walking path would have been in Reef Fire Station. Now, fortunately, the county hasn't done anything with that. so it's it's they're gonna have to find another place to do reforestation that's that's in a desperate mode in Carroll County because nobody has it I just talked to a solar guy who wants to do it and he his question was is there a need and I said my gosh yes for for affordable reforestation there's a great need But and the county can do it someplace else. But I think the county's philosophy and CCBS before that was that that's about all this property is good for. And like I say, it's you don't fall in love with a piece of property until you know all the parameters.

And if I may answer. So I think you bring up some valid and invalid points, Commissioner. I obviously value your opinion on some of this. I would say this, and I'll quote a retired Colonel Roe Burnett, that sometimes you've got to build the plane while you fly it. So my approach may be very different than yours, the approach of our board, how we're going to look at this. When it comes to the property, when it comes to, I can't go out and spend money on a piece of government property because I can't tap into congressionally directed funding until we own the property. So you may very well be 100% correct that we won't be able to do anything with this and it has to revert back to you, the county. No harm, no foul. We've spent some money. We've done our studies. You would then get the property back. But on the other side of things, I just point to right here, East Middle Elementary School. if we can build a school like that having to go out while kids are in school and blast through the rock and you stand in the bus zone and you can't even see the top of the ground then i know we can build out here because it's it's completely doable they spent about two million on rock that they didn't expect to spend and as long as if this project can cost you 15 million i say go for it but like i say uh you you do a feasibility study first absolutely

and and you haven't yet and we can't we can't go out and we it's county property i can't go out and spend money that's given to us by the federal government there's there's plenty of ways that you can have it under contract you can you can i've done feasibility studies on property i didn't own and wasn't sure i could buy but i did them and then bought it um so yeah there's that's that's what i'm saying is you need a you need a pm and a team advising you on this. I'd hate to see it. get 90 planned and then you know because that's that's going to be what four or five years from now and then stop you know that would be because it's a great thing for carroll county and you guys are a great thing for carroll county i just i don't want to see you make a mistake and this may not be but like i say uh the numbers i gave you on the contours they're real and a civil engineer uh um they can easily do a feasibility study on a site plan they just did one on property for us not owned by us you know it's it's that can all happen and I just I just feel like like I say this is great because we got to discuss all this but and and maybe Maybe the forest conservation is easy to but. Either you or us need to put it someplace else, right? It's not.

That's not free and our planning committee has looked at all that and the property they've looked and so we've got a lot of answers on. But once again, it's not our property. Being before you here today, as commissioners, you're going to determine that it's worth moving forward or you're not. If it's not, then we're just not going to enter in a partnership with the county government.

I assume without a briefing paper, we're not going to make any decision today. This was for information only. We rarely see something on our agenda that we don't have a briefing paper or we don't have a presentation until the day before. So it's... My opinion is it's tough to make a decision today, but this is a great start with great conversation.

Like I was saying, Commissioner, we appreciate all your thoughts, and I know we've got some notes from this and the commissioners, but once again, VIP's stance is as commissioners, we'll either have this partnership or we're going to thank you regardless, and we will then go and commit funds to purchase it, which we have those pledges, And it won't be a community government partnership. So thank you.

Any other comments or questions from Commissioner? I said a couple of questions on the work barn. What's that? You might have already said it, but I missed it. What's the work barn for?

So once again, I ask you not to put so much credence into some of this. But the work barn would, for instance, be the place that you're going to be storing any tractors needed to for grass maintenance and for, you know, just it's going to be things like that. There is a proposal in this next set of community directed funding. that we would potentially build a wood shop and we would be able to go out and also an auto shop that would just be to allow veterans to come in and get some skill sets. But yes, so it's really to house the things we need to maintain the problem.

There's no basements in these facilities right now.

None of the drawings have any plans for basements.

Obviously, this school site was a school site, and that's why it's not. But putting a big school on the property is a lot different than putting these buildings. But I think the vision. One thing you guys are phenomenal at is visioning, looking forward and finding solutions. And I appreciate that instead of putting up obstacles. And just having the vision and then expanding to what else can be done with the arc. That to me is incredible. And the more we think about it and people weigh in on it, we're like, how can we use this even more? And this property to me is in the middle of... where it should be, in the middle of a town. So if it would work, I'd much prefer to see something that's usable for us and plant trees somewhere else that's not so geographically just I look on a map and it's like it's middle of our county it's the middle of our town so if I could put a pin on the map you know there are the devil and the details and I would you know I sort of inherited this school site at the end of it when I got on the school board in 1998 and they'd already moved the the elementary school across the street because of the rock but putting putting a huge elementary school obviously footprint as you said was um trying and then they were gonna put the ball fields over there same issue you're trying to spread it out this is a little bit different obviously and then even with parking you know there's new surfaces that you can use for impervious parking that is not I'm sorry not impervious the opposite pervious and there's money available for the trip for actually for the walking trail through state highway there's a walking trail so there are resources some of them take a while and that is federal money so I would work with our staff just we've I think somebody says Jonathan's on vacation about the reforestation and What would have to be replaced? A lot of this stuff you can do ahead of time and check these things off your list and say, what would it be to do x? And if this is under easement, how do we get it out? Where could we put it? Can you put some of it on the same property? You can reforest your own property. Or it's possible, and there's lots of possibilities of someone donating a piece of land so you can reforest it, and they get a tax break on it because they've now given you the easement, the value of that, and they might want to do that on their own property for you and your nonprofit, and they can get the tax break on it, and you put the trees on their property. So first you've got to figure out what do you need to replace. A lot of this can be done ahead of time. I think what you're looking for today is conceptual. We're obviously not approving something in permanency. How would this actually work? But I think we need some conceptual approval. And then once some of these things are worked out, guess the devil's always in the details but you come back with this is this will work because of x because you hate to transfer a property and then find out it doesn't work and obviously we would put something in the d that said if we transfer it we have and we by law have to get an appraisal done on the property any property that we transfer is that correct so we have to do that first so getting conceptual approval and then we have to do that get the appraisal see what the value of it is that we're transferring over because by law we have to Um, uh, so we have, we have some work to do as well. So I'd like to say that, um, today we'd be giving conceptual approval to this, to come back with, you know, we get, we get the appraisal done and you guys try to get some of these questions answered. Our staff would be committed to working with you to understand what would, um, Chris Heinz gray on stormwater. He can tell you what would need to be done. For the pond, I know sometimes we get extra credits if there's room to expand the pond and make it part of our NPDES expansion. So there might be, I know he's good at thinking outside of the box for that. Could be a win-win for everybody with the pond. sometimes we have to retrofit the ponds for the schools and that all could be part of this as well so I'm not I'm just throwing out things of trying to find solutions so I don't know what you want to do today but I think we conceptually want to move forward on certain steps that need to be done before we even make a decision I mean would that be something you would entertain

Commissioner, actually, I was thinking along the same lines because I was going to ask Tim, for example, if we wanted to interest in transferring a property, does that require a public hearing? What's the process for something like that?

Yes, and we ran through this with Don when we had the two lots. There has to be an appraisal done of the property. There has to be a public hearing with advertising, which includes the appraised value of the property, and then there has to be an actual public hearing.

Got it. So, Commissioner, I agree with you. I think some kind of... uh, approval of, of the concept that we're interested in is that we want to direct staff to work with VIP in the arc to determine, you know, uh, uh, the feasibility to, to get the appraisal done, to start moving things in that direction, uh, which also the same time allows questions that commissioner Kyler has to, to be answered. Uh, but it also, you know, gets us moving down that path. All right.

Well, I would like to make a motion that we make conceptual approval of moving forward with the concept of the freedom center. Um, with the caveat that we need to get the appraisal done and that we want staff to work with VIP on issues of reforestation and stormwater management conceptually and anything else that might be of interest. And then you come back with a briefing paper with some of those issues resolved. And then in the meantime, that's in my motion our council here can tell us what type of an agreement would be recommended if we were to make this decision and what it would look like with a reversion clause or whatever so that is it correct that I assume the arcs here today because legally we can't give it

to VIP. The ARC would have to be involved. So I think that ought to be part of the motion is that the ARC is involved. And like I say, I'll be honest, I am very disappointed that we saw this stuff 24 hours ago and there's no briefing paper.

Well, I've got a motion on the floor. I think conceptually you need, I think you're looking for the go ahead. So you put some of this stuff, the interest in the briefing paper. So it could be as close to answering some of the issues that we have. And I think that is a good next step. And I thank you for what you've done. So whoever's writing this motion down, I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to put down, I said, the motion was, excuse me, that I motioned them. My motion is that we have conceptual approval from the Board of Commissioners to move forward with discussing the Freedom Center, looking for information from our staff about appraisals, what the next steps would be for transferring property, and then coming back in a certain period of time with information, directing our staff to work with you guys on issues of reforestation and stormwater management, what that would look like conceptually and anything else that may come up, and then come back with some more finality with those issues.

at a point in time that works for you and then we can also look at the transferring of the property and who it has to go to um right now in all that can be changed as well we can also ask the delegation if we wanted to have the ability to do it in a different way but that's my that's my motion if anybody commissioner may i suggest a slightly altered wording just to to what if we had a motion to conceptually approve the freedom center and to direct staff to coordinate with the ark and vip on all related issues and questions does that work that's right and all tim does that does that adequately cover one question about the appraisal that they cost money who's going to do the appraisal i guess that would have to come down on us that would require a budget allocation out of what reserve for contingency

Well, I think when we did the ARC last time, not to put you on the spot. The ARC produced an appraisal, but it's up to the board.

Let's do that part first, then we'll do the appraisal part second. Okay, all right. So we have a motion to conceptually approve the Freedom Center and to direct staff to coordinate with the ARC and VIP on all related issues and questions. Do we have a second? And then come back with a briefing paper. And come back with a briefing paper. Second. All right, we have a motion, we have a second. Is there any discussion on that particular motion?

So, sorry, go ahead, sir. I was going to say, can I just ask one quick question? So, you know, one of the things that I mentioned earlier is we, the ARC, would like to apply for planning money through the Department of, it's the State Department of Housing. Um, and typically what happens is the County is the grantee and then we become the sub grantee. I don't know if, if, if, if something, you know, if you would permit us permit the arc to, as you said, commissioner Kyler study and, and gain access, I imagine they're going to, you know, to gain access if we get the funds approved or some kind of wording that allows us to work with the county to do the feasibility to spend the money on architects and land people and things like that and how about if we just add you would add that to okay with us doing that the arc part of the project as well as the freedom center would be yeah well at least discussed conceptually yeah just to let us to be able to pursue that step um i don't know i could i i'll talk with maybe the the grants office here about what wording might need to be in there to allow that to us to apply as a sub grantee or the county to apply as the grantee to the Department of Housing to get those that planning dollars if I make myself clear I just They may require something in the deed or something to say, yeah, you need to either have access to the land in some capacity, whether that's a three-month lease or whatever, to be able to study that to say this is a good project. Or here's what would be required cost-wise and regulation-wise to use the property.

So on that note, and Robert, I know this is your last day. I know you've dealt with contracts and all sorts of things grant related over the years. I guess I have two questions for you. First of all is, and I'd like Don's suggestion, would that have to be a part of the motion that has been made or is that something else that we would discuss in conjunction with the appraisal or something else? And if so...

I think the motion you made is broad enough. Basically, my understanding is it looks like if this motion passes, the board wants arc and a bit to work with staff about next steps there are a lot of steps there are a lot of moving parts here especially with the two different nonprofits and two different goals and objectives on the same property so I think what would be best is for the parties to start working together to start laying all those out and because I'm sure there are a million things that none of any of us in this room have even thought of that you know staff are sitting in their offices saying well what about this so so yeah so before we go I would keep the motion general if I may suggest as has been suggested if the board's direction is to have staff work with this to see where what the next steps are and then we can come back with what those next steps are and lay them out. I would even, I don't know, I think it needs to be decided eventually who's going to do the appraisal and who's going to pay for it, but I don't know that that needs to be decided even today.

Okay. Again, this is conceptual for all of us. We're just basically saying we all agree conceptually if this all works within the budget and all these parameters, but we're just giving you the go-ahead to, and our staff go-ahead to start talking about it. And then I will make a second motion when we're done about the appraisal. But we have a motion and a second on the floor.

Yes, Commissioner. You do have a second? Yes. Okay. You were the second.

Bottom line, conceptual approval. You need to understand where this board stands. The county owns the property. We make the decision. You're about to find out in a couple minutes or a couple seconds. Conceptual approval. It's got a nice ring to it. Hopefully, it allows you the leeway to begin your own due diligence, which is a term I think we probably need to be using. And that's obviously on your both organizations. And we can help facilitate that, as we always do here in Carroll County. It's sort of a catch-22. You can't really proceed much further until you've got this conceptual approval to move forward. I think the other catch-22, interestingly enough, is that this property, if it was perfect, probably wouldn't be available. You know, so we're sort of, it's a great location. We're going to, you know, we deal with what we get here in Carroll County. We make the best of things, and obviously there's a lot of work to do. but that's that's where we are so we have the motion we have the second we do conceptual approval correct and to direct staff to direct staff to as we always do okay all right all right so we do have the motion we do have the second is there any further discussion all right hearing none all those in favor aye all those opposed motion carries unanimously okay secondly I want to ask some counsel a question

So when the appraisal is done, it seems to me no matter what we do, whether we do reforestation, whether we decide to gift this, whether we decide to sell it, we need an appraisal because we need to know what the value of the land is. Because I certainly would not want to put trees on a piece of property that could be of value in another way. It could be commercial. It could be something else. So I think one way or another, we should get an appraisal done on the property. Now, when they appraise the property, do they look at those types of things like possible conditions or not? They just look at the land as it is. uh it depends on how much you're willing to pay the appraisals i mean they can do a a walk through or they could do a paper search that sort of thing and i'm not suggesting i want to use it for commercial but obviously it's in a an area that it has value that and that's why we should have an appraisal because i again i would not want to tie up valuable land if you know for for something that we could do somewhere else so i think having appraisal one way or another would be good for us just to know what's in our inventory and the value of what's been there inventory for over 30 years I guess at least when cranberry so when it was purchased so I'm gonna make a motion that we ask staff our staff to get an appraisal done of the property I'm not sure if it needs to be any more specific than that and then and also to come back with us in about any other limitations that would be on transferring the property to whom and is there a

yeah i think that would all be part of this next steps if i may i think the appraisal will the cost of the appraisal and the validity of the appraisal would be determined by what we want to get out of it i think that's where you were going with it tim because appraisals can i mean um they can be for as you said just a very high level don't give you a lot of details and um almost like a record search as as you said where you look at a bunch of sdat filings and that's about it or they can literally be walking the property and saying oh there's this divot and that tree and whatever else so um i think um i think we probably it would be more expensive um to do an appraisal that would be more detailed but i think to get a valuable answer of some sort you would want to go some middle ground and also you need to do every divot but I think the records would also not be just sufficient especially if the county is contemplating it also would be an in-kind contribution toward what the county is giving the value of that land

so you can go say okay the county's giving x that's our value um and we can talk about who we're giving it to and how that work may work or not work um after this because there's other ways to make that we could solve that problem so that's my motion is to get the county to do an appraisal on the property so if i may and okay well so we have a motion on the floor and i have to entertain the motion is there a second for the motion

I'll make a second because I want to discuss it. So as Roberta has mentioned, the specifics of the appraisal, what we want to see, what we want to look for, might better come out of these conversations that will begin between VIP ARC and our staff. And so my suggestion, my thought is that as those conversations begin and we get a sense of what it is that we're looking at, then staff can come back to us and say, this is the appraisal that we're suggesting, this is what we want to see, rather than us just making kind of like a blanket, we want an appraisal. Having those specifics come back to us to know what we're looking for, what the cost is going to be, I think that would probably make for a better course of action.

Well, another question is, we didn't really put a timeline on this, and Don, you mentioned a timeline for what you're looking for, for applying for grants. Obviously, grants are probably being due now for next year's budget for the state, for CDBG grants or whatever you're looking for. So what would be the timeline that we would have to have some more certainty, or would it put off those opportunities?

Yeah, well, I know Jay said it's kind of time is of the essence because they've got, you know, some – little different requirements than what the arc has at this point so I you know some of that I might defer to them because they I think they have a more pressing need than the art does we're just looking at you know what this makes sense for us to you know build houses there you know or these quads there at some point In talking to the grants office not too long ago, I think there's another round sometime in the late fall that could offer up some planning money. I don't know how quickly that happens, you know, from when you apply for it to when you get it and you're approved. It may be premature. Or, you know, for us to, you know, get that for... you know, and maybe some of that planning money could be used for the entire site, I don't know. I mean, that's something that maybe the grant office could clarify.

So it's more of a rolling process than it is?

It is, it is. What they do is they give money to major projects that, and then if there's any leftover, which there typically is, they use that as planning grants that you can apply for. So, I mean, no guarantee that you get it, but I think Carroll County's got it.

got a great track record in getting those funds okay I will withdraw my motion okay but I just don't want it to be something that holds us up down the road so it's up to you guys give our staff you know at least like a month to get it on the agenda if you have a timeline that you think you can make it by just give us some ideas so we can make sure you get in line whether it's October or November or whatever and then we'll put it back on the agenda and by then we'll have some answers as well and from our Council

And I think not only is it premature to do an appraisal, I think we need to let the staff and them work together to decide what kind of appraisal we need to do. And I think it's I don't like the look that we're throwing away taxpayer money without planning.

I think the look right now is that we're trying to conceptually say we approve of it, and we want to do our homework, and we're not throwing any money away at all.

I'm talking about the motion for the appraisal. I voted for the other motion, and I'm all in favor of it.

She withdrew the motion.

I understand that, but do I get to comment about it? well you were talking about a motion as if it still existed and i just wanted to clarify that the motion had been withdrawn oh i knew that oh okay i knew that and i think it's smart to withdraw it because a we're wasting taxpayer money and b we don't even it's premature and we don't know what kind of appraisal we want to do to do an appraisal and then find out their grant or his grant requires a different appraisal that that's foolish and uh i i talked about it this morning you don't let the urgent replace the important and and i understand this is a great project and we need to i think we need to work on it but we we don't we don't need to start throwing money at it today

And also, I will say, because it's not your property, you're not doing the appraisal. We are. It's our property. You have to own the property. So you won't be doing the appraisal.

You don't have to own the property to do an appraisal. I can appraise this property if you want.

I'm just suggesting that.

all right whoever if i may i'm gonna i am gonna step in here now because the question of the appraisal has been settled uh and we are rapidly running out of time here so we do have to uh to move on so jason don thank you everybody for coming in uh vince thank you very much thank you everybody for the presentation and look forward to hearing from you and staff about what comes next thank you commissioners appreciate your time thank you yes vince yes

The word of God is true. There is wisdom in the counsel of many.

God bless you.

Thank you all. Thank you, sir. You are wise with age, aren't you?

all right so up next because we have a somewhat truncated schedule uh we have items number seven through eighteen which are procurements and so what i'm going to do is i'm going to read down through the list of all these procurements that we're going to be taking as a group and if any of my commissioners have or my fellow commissioners have any specific questions on any of those specific items we can pull those out because we have the directors with us but short of that i'm going again i'm going to for the sake of one unified vote on all these items i'm going to read through them and again if anybody wants to pull any of them out specifically just let me know and then we'll do that and vote on the remaining block all right so item number and of course i'm renumbering them based on the the two other items that were previously excluded from the agenda so item number seven approval to purchase platform for college and career readiness item number 10 approval to purchase medical supplies for the department of fire and ems item number nine contract award for piney run park entrance main road paving and site improvements item number 10 approval to purchase traffic paint item number 11 approval to purchase bulk road bulk road assault item number 12 approval to purchase vehicles for the carroll county sheriff's office item number 13 approval to purchase the upfitting of vehicles for the carroll county sheriff's office item number 14 contract award for engineering services for the miriam drive and bruce court replacement water main project item number 15 contract awards for the fy27 sampling laboratory testing reporting and support services for the division of utilities water and wastewater treatment facilities item number 16 contract awards for replacement of water service laterals within the freedom district service area item number 17 approval to purchase trash removal and item number 18 approval to purchase elevator and lift inspection and repair services did any of my colleagues wish to ask any questions on any of those items in specific not a question but i do just have one comment just for anybody watching these all all are approved within the fy 27 adopted budget i just want to clarify that

thank you for pointing that out commissioner and i appreciate that these are all approved in the in the budget and i think today's special but we need to avoid doing work we're throwing about four four million dollars and not being transparent so and and I think I've said this before we did this at Board of Ed but every director was in the room they answered questions we might say oh I pulled 10 and 11 out and vote on that separate it was it was way more of a discussion but because of the email I've read all these and and I'm in favor of all these and if i find questions i'll email the specific departments

certainly understand the perspective and then again under normal circumstances i agree that that we would take them one at a time so i'm with you commissioner i just want to thank i want to thank staff much more information is being put in the background and executive summaries which actually then goes out to people to read so it's sort of self-explanatory in most of these and that's helpful too so somebody's not reading it saying oh what is this so uh these descriptions um are pretty much what you'd come up and say anyway and now they're in writing and they're

in our on our board packet and they're out there in in the virtual world for people to look at and i i think that's uh it's a good thing so thank you do we have any uh comments or questions or direction from the board well i will make a motion to approve all procurement items from numbers uh 7 through 18. second we have a motion we have a second is there any discussion Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. All right, thank you, everybody. Up next, we will move into the public comment portion of the agenda. Roberta, do we have anybody here for public comment?

Yes, sir.

All right, thank you very much.

Thank you, staff. Sticking around. Thank you. Have a great day.

You too. Chris and or Matt, do we have anybody on the line for public comment?

No one on the line, sir.

right thank you very much all right we will now move into admin open does anybody have anything for admin open all right hearing none we will move into agenda review for the week of august 24th and maybe give wanda a minute to come on over i know we moved a little fast there might have a hard time getting to the crowd it sounds like there's a crowd out there agenda must be punishment for not having a long agenda today we do have quite a few things next week that's for sure not too bad not yet i wonder we're we're all ready for you she was on time she just yeah she was on time How are you, Wanda?

Good, thank you.

All right, so first of all, the week of Monday, August 24th. Monday, August 24th shows nothing on the formal calendar. Tuesday, August 25th shows nothing on the formal calendar. Wednesday, August 26th, nothing on the formal calendar. Thursday, August 27th, Board of Commissioners closed admin at 8 o'clock a.m., followed by open at 9 o'clock a.m., uh beginning with item number one priority carol including proclamations for annual recovery month uh 2026 and international overdose awareness day followed by item number two carroll county water and sewer master plan spring 2026 amendment cycle item number three contract award for engineering design and permitting services for the reconstruction of piney run dam item number four request to amend the carroll county fy 2027 program open space Annual program for the town of Manchester. Item number five, contract award for county procurement card program. Item number six, approval of the bylaw revisions for the Emergency Services Advisory Council.

Commissioner Vigliotti, that item will not be ready for next week. Okay, so we'll... The SAC is still working on that.

Okay. Thank you very much, Commissioner Guerin. So we'll strike item number six from the agenda.

Thank you. Yes, sir.

And then, so item number seven will become item number six, permission to accept funds for the rooted and resilient rural Maryland grant department of fire and EMS, with the department of fire and EMS. Item number seven, approval to purchase John Deere 333 P tier compact track loader. Item number 8, approval to purchase 2026 Ford F-150 for the Department of Public Works. Item number 9, approval to purchase Great All Hydraulic Excavator. Item number 10, approval to purchase two 2027 Chevrolet Tahoe 4x4 PPVs. item number 11 approval to purchase 2026 chrysler pacifica followed by public comment admin open and agenda review and then we will be going into recess until one o'clock pm when we will be reconvening in public for a work session on recreation councils and there is no public comment on this item and then at six o'clock pm uh here in the county office building in reagan room uh which is number three down at the uh or down on the lower floor of the building we have a public hearing for the market street extended project Friday, August 28th, shows nothing on the formal calendar. Saturday, August 29th, nothing on the formal calendar. And Sunday, August 30th, Commissioner Krebs has the podcast. Are there any changes or alterations for the first week of our agenda? All right, hearing none, we'll move into the second week, the week of Monday, August 31st. Monday, August 31st shows nothing on the formal calendar. Tuesday, September 1st, 10.30 a.m., the Board of Commissioners has an open session here in the Reagan Room of the County Office Building. for a work session for retirement zoning codes, and there is no public comments for that work session. Followed by, I'm sorry, there is nothing after that. Wednesday, September 2nd, shows nothing on the formal calendar. Thursday, September 3rd, we are enclosed at 8 o'clock a.m., followed by open session with the county commissioners at 9 o'clock a.m., Item number one, Priority Carroll, including national recognition from Alliance for the Community Media Foundation and Carroll County Disaster Preparedness Month Proclamation. Item number two, notice to attend to purchase agriculture land preservation easements under the MALPF program. Item number three, exercise option to purchase the Jacob and Mary Fisher property through the Rural Legacy Easement Program. item number four grant approval to submit application and acceptance of award for maintenance training for green storm where infrastructure some stars green storm water infrastructure followed by public comment admin open agenda review and that evening at six o'clock pm we have a public hearing for proposed amendments to chapter 155 and 158 accessory dwelling units proposed amendments to chapter 91 chapter 155 and chapter 158 retirement villages and retirement homes proposed amendments to chapter 155 cluster subdivisions and that will occur here in the county office building I believe Roberta okay because it doesn't at least I'm I unless I'm missing it it does not specify on the agenda so I just wanted to make sure that was Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Here in the Reagan room in room number three. All right. Friday, September 4th, nothing on the formal calendar. Saturday, September 5th, nothing on the formal calendar. And then Sunday, September 6th, I have the podcast. Does anybody have any changes or alterations for the second week of our agenda?

I have a question on the 27th. One question.

Oh, I'm sorry.

On the 27th, Congressman Olszewski is coming to the Westminster Senior Center. Is that something we're supposed to participate in?

the 20 i mean what was the purpose of it it's his it's a town hall we talked about it last time we met um commissioner gordon is going to represent the commissioners okay all right okay commissioner collins um on uh tim weber's uh turning the county purple um do we want to recognize that september 3rd or the meeting before that's a good question

Good question. Do we want to reach out to his office to ask him if he would prefer to go next week or the following?

Sure. Okay.

Roberta, that may be your official last act as county administrator to have someone reach out to you.

I'll delegate that to Wanda. My last delegation.

Well, thank you, Roberta, and thank you, Wanda. All right, any other changes or alterations to the second week of our agenda? All right. Hearing none, I need a motion to adjourn. So moved. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Ladies and gentlemen, we are adjourned.