Airport Economic Development Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

It's okay. Today is April 17 calling to order the meeting of the airport economic development advisory board. Roll call. Michael Bugen. Kevin Kane. Here. And the Dowling. Here. Paula Tailing is here. Lyle. Here. Martin. Andrew McClain is not. Okay. Pledge of allegiance.

Anybody who got started?

Pledge allegiance to The United States Of America Republic for which he stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Nice job.

We don't have to worry about putting it up on the screen. Okay. Do we have a copy of the February 20? Didn't have a I'm sure they were yes. Do we have a copy of the minutes?

Nobody sent them to you? I mean, that would've been Michael's job. So we don't have anything to approve in terms of the minutes from February. Correct? No. So I don't think so either. Alright. We'll have to do that next time. K. Does everybody have an agenda for tonight's meeting?

Absolutely.

Put some down on the end there. Everybody had a no. I'll give you a chance to look at it. Any questions, comments, additions, subtractions? Motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Second. In favor? Aye. Opposed? This is good because now we can just raise our hand. Okay. Public comment. Do you care to make public comment? Yes.

I have nothing.

Moving right along. Mayor's not here. He was gonna be here at the last meeting. Obviously, we missed that meeting. We'll try and get him. If he doesn't show up tonight, we'll reach out to him, but he was gonna come and meet everybody. Alright. I don't really have an official chair's report. Other than this is great. We've been waiting this for this for a while. This is awesome. Emmett.

Couple of recent burglary stuff happened. One of them was out of state up in the Bay Area, and the FAA ruled that the city of Santa Clara

yeah. It's

it's Re Hillview Airport. Put a ban on leaded fuel, and the FAA determined that that was not it was in violation of their grant assurances. They're they stopped taking money from the FAA a while ago, but they still have grant assurances for the twenty year periods to my knowledge.

Mhmm. Yep.

So that I think that happened in another airport in California. So that was that was kind of a big one. You know? We take money here in town for capital improvement projects, and those come with grand insurances. Basically, the biggest one is running the airport for twenty years with Santa Clara.

Now ours is a little different since we bought the airport with federal money. The other one was locally here. The Boulder County judge dismissed the lawsuit brought by town of Superior and Boulder County against Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport. And so that one was dismissed, basically saying the judge said, I don't have the power to enforce rules about federal airspace. I'm not he didn't comment on the other parts of the lawsuit, but the lawsuit was dismissed based on that.

So those are just a couple of things that that happened that I thought applied to us. There's one other thing I was gonna talk about, but I'll wait until we have council here because it kinda applies to them too, so it

might be the next meeting. Oh, council members. Council members. Yeah. Okay.

This is part two as well. Can we get a definitive answer on the issue with relating to if the FAA uses money or gives you money to purchase land as opposed to grand assurances for making improvements and upkeep? Because it's my understanding there's, like, a very distinct difference between grand assurances for twenty years versus Sure. How do we get clarity on that?

I mean, I I don't know what has happened with the town this town of city of Boulder and their airport. They've spent a whole lot of money on legal fees to try and find out that answer because the question because a a handful of individuals went through a campaign to get signatures to put it on the ballot. Don't believe it actually went on the ballot because they didn't know if

they could actually do it. So I don't For that reason?

For that reason. But they I think they have brought the lawsuit, tried to raise it as high up as they can go to get an answer, and I don't know what that answer was.

Do you think that would be a question of, like, our friends at CDOT

or AOPA? Well or the older airport manager. I

I've got his name somewhere, but I've talked to him once before. Would you mind, like, even as an initial entree, ask him, hey. How could we get this information? Sure. Because there are some folks Sure. Kinda wanna know. I I some of

the literature I've I've I've read about that airport in particular mentioned that that maybe if they pay everything back, that they might be able to. I don't know that that's the case. But they were ready to sacrifice part of the sale of the land, you know, thinking that they were getting that an exorbitant amount of money be able to pay all that money back. Because it's gotta be by by this point, it's gotta be in the millions for sure. So, yeah, I'll I'll reach out to the manager, see if see if I

can find out. And do you mind if we put that on next month's agenda just to see if we can get Sure. Some sort of report from you. Yep. And any assistance you can provide? Absolutely. I can do that. Yep. Not a problem. What else you got? That's it. Can't have a secretary report because we have no secretary here. Airport Enterprise Fund Finance report.

Yes.

You know, the whole meeting last time

getting canceled kinda put a

Yeah. I mean, the last meeting meeting we had, I mean, finance came and presented the quarterly. That was their end of your report. I think that was back in February. Right. So we don't have another quarterly report yet.

We will next month, though. Presumably, they could do

Yeah. I think if we wanna ask the finance team for some consistency and maybe they attend twice a year, we get a report from them quarterly, but they attend every six months. That's fine.

So would you suggest we, like, get a quarterly report and discuss it amongst ourselves and then have them physically come? Yeah. Twice a year. Twice a year. Mhmm. Everybody's cool with that? I think that works.

Yeah. I'll check And that's kind of

what we discussed when we were in the meeting with them personally. Like, almost, what, a year ago. Mhmm.

Yeah. I'll check and see when they have the first quarter report ready to go with the.

I'm curious. Did the FDA come through?

I'm gonna put this as part of Airport Enterprise fund, but we had Drew draft the recommendation. Has everybody had a chance to, like, look at it? That's the same one that was in the meeting from February. Right? Yes. Yes. We kind of kicked it down the road just to give everybody a chance to look at it more. Anybody got any comments, suggestions? But I

think as Drew said, it's it's it's a process of engaging.

Right. And not, like, here, say yes or no. Well, it's not up to us to make that. Right. Anyways but I guess my question is, do we want to make any edits to this other suggestions on that? I don't think we're ready to do anything with it at this point other than amongst ourselves is the way this is presented. I think you did a really good job, but is there anything else that we feel we need to add to it? And then the other part of it is, I think our discussion would town legal counsel to make a determination as to

I think you need your council liaisons to kinda fully support this first. Right. And as they as your liaison help present it to town council. Right. And then if town council supports actual changes, then legal council gets involved.

Okay. Well, that's helpful. Mhmm.

I think given that we don't have any council members here, we'd probably What was your table at? Table until the next meeting.

I think your last meeting was first meeting. Yeah. And so he wasn't really fully, oriented yet. So it'd be good to have them here for a few months, run through with him again, and get their volume before it goes to the full.

Exactly. Mhmm. I I

let me backtrack in terms of maybe part of chair Huffielding's report. I had a one on one meeting with Paso Rommeli Mhmm. Council member of Paso Rommeli at Christos last week. We figured we'd sit down for thirty minutes and just get to know him. It lasted two and a half hours. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great meeting. It really was. He was very engaged, very interested, wanted to know more.

It was worth every minute, and we came away with that really. Anyways, I'm glad that he's on board. He has a lot that he acknowledges that he needs to learn in terms of getting up to speed and understanding. There's a lot of history now, five years now, in terms of this board and what we've covered and what we've done. He, by his own acknowledgment, has a lot to catch up on even beyond our two and a half hour coffee clutch, I guess you'd call.

Anyways, so we'll punt this to the next meeting. Really, everybody kinda do a deep dive. And then probably what we should do since you are Kevin, you are on this committee with Drew Yep. Maybe you all double back and communicate with Kevin and or Drew about any recommendations, but do it one on one individually so we're not busting anything. Is done?

That's part of I'm asking. Yeah. Well, done as a general.

Yeah. Is it where where we want it to be? And I wanna make sure that we have it to where we want it to be in terms of what we are going to put in it before we then sit down with And how's that been distributed? Only via email by Drew.

Drew sent it out to the group last year.

Okay. This is not gonna be a fast track thing by any stretch of the imagination.

But How long do you think?

How long would I think that this would be decided by the council? Probably six months. Would that be a good assessment? Yep. Yeah.

I I think it's gonna take some some, you know, engagement with our liaisons to get them kind of onboard and understand the reason why

before Correct. Correct. And that even that could not have been done in a two and a half hour meeting. Brandon's pretty well versed in it because he's been the liaison since the begin anyways, I just wanna make sure that we're kinda methodically going through. So six months might be the fast track, but I don't want it to be, like, we're still having this conversation next December. That would

be silly. And and you

guys know this, but we have a new mayor. We have a new council. The trend we've seen so far is things take a long time. Things are moving very slow. Everybody's getting oriented. Things that are usually a very quick consent agenda item are taking two hours for counsel to discuss. So things that may have taken six months a year ago might take even longer. This is PC as I can say it.

It's probably worth talking about Nassar's development agreement that was amended at couple two council meetings ago.

That was the two

hours. Yes.

Yeah. And the it kinda went sideways, but the ultimately, they came around and they approved it. So Nassar's 10 acre plot that we all sent a letter in support of those hangars and the changing of the zoning overlay for that 10 acres to include light industrial, which is already on the first phase where my office is. They got that approved. Now the town has a side off on pretty much everything, and they're already moving dirt.

They're moving dirt on? Yeah. Upper upper portion of where the road construction is. You may know more about this now. People always ask me. They're they're creating a high speed exit lane. Mhmm. A V cell lane. Yeah. And then an exit What was this one?

Those both previously existed before they were torn.

We're making them a little bit bigger.

See that's doing that.

And longer. Right? Yeah.

But and acceleration was, like, this wide. Yeah. So they're changing that.

I'm getting ready for a traffic signal at some point in the next

Yeah. So NASA's development, there's five buildings. They're gonna bring from the top thing top property near the road all the way down along Airfield Drive. They're gonna bring in a sewer line, and that's gonna connect to that sewer line that they brought in to get to Parkdale that runs along the taxiway. They're gonna tie into that. That's part of the development agreement that was approved two weeks ago. And then as part of that, I think David told me, David Nassar, the light kicks in once the fifth building is under construction, I don't

Permitted. Yeah.

Yeah. Mhmm. Then he'll have to come in and put a light in at Yeah. The entrance.

They're paying for 75% that we're kicking in the other quarter.

Of the light? Mhmm. Yeah. Even though it's

Yeah. Their project Highway 7. Their projects, the

the impact of the two flight business parks is what triggers the warrant for the signal, so they're responsible to pay

for it. Right. And they seem okay with it, but they know it won't it won't trigger until that fifth building Correct. Is under construction. And he plans on he's not gonna come in and build all five buildings. He's gonna build them, and he told me he's gonna he's gonna start on the North Side and work his way Mhmm. Out just to have as little impact as possible with construction and potentially airplanes taxing in and out. Well

And they're also rebuilding the waterline, reconstructing the street after they rebuild the waterline. There's a

Major major changes. A few

million dollars of public improvements that they're doing. Wait.

Are we talking about the the the next phase of his Yeah. The 10 acres of the space. It's not the the parcels going out. That's phase three. That's another Mhmm. Thing under

Okay. We're not there yet.

He owns it.

Okay. But we can't comment.

What the development agreement approved was that 10 acre rectangle. Yes. That's pretty fun. But this stuff up here is required as part of the everything together. The

fifth building in that parcel. Correct. Then trigger. Okay. The fifth hanger on that little Mhmm. Okay.

Yeah. And that has not changed. Has this changed? Oh, it has not changed. Okay. Still two buildings parking in the middle, facing outward, hangar Mhmm. Access taxi accessibility on both west and east side. That has not changed. And that's the one, you know, we all I think you all were not on the board, but we the board members at that time, we all signed a letter in support of that site plan once they had changed it.

I think that was was that Drew or That was Drew. You that suggested that? It was Drew. Yeah. It was Drew. Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. And they They changed the layout of that that property to make it all accessible, to have hangar access to all the hangars. Because before they were the the design before wasn't wasn't if you

were to look at Schofield's hangars, obviously, there's a taxiway up east side of that building, then there would have been parking and then a building and then hangar doors or warehouse doors. Problem is those would not have had access to the taxiway. Then there will be another building, and that one backed up to the existing taxiway now that is already there. So Drew was great. They came and they did a presentation for us at our meeting.

Then Drew got up and he's like, why don't you just flip this, bring the cars and everything in the middle between the two buildings like this, and then you have doors here, doors here, scofields here, well, then you got double the amount of potential underlying potential aircraft taxi taxiway access, and they did it. So we were like, wow. That's great. Then we did the letter. Alright.

But this this is a private development something? Is a private hangers. There's no guarantee that they'll be used for hangers?

No. And the and the the likely cost of the I mean, these are gonna be a continuation of what already exists. So they're gonna be big box hangers, and the price point will be at a point at which the aircraft that would go in are gonna be, you know, expensive. Well, the hangers are gonna be expensive. Exactly.

A few carriers.

Oh, yeah. Excellent. So where's Schofield? That to the bottom.

Oh, they're right.

Or no?

Scofield's

Oh, you're right. To the top. To the right.

Yeah. Scofield's up there.

So this is the revised

That's the

your point, Paul, parking the middle Correct.

Hangers on the outside Right. Versus the OG that which was kind of the opposite. Yeah. That was the original.

So that would have only had solid potential of aircraft. I will say, just like the existing building, everybody who has a unit in that building, they pay a proportional share of through the fence fees. So even my office, I have 2,500 square foot building, 1,200 up, 1,200 down. That's it. 1,250 square feet.

K? I pay a proportional share of the yearly amount that that part of the development pays through the fence fees.

So do each one of these hangers pay the $600 a year? If they

have a plan currently. If they have a plan.

Mhmm. But if they don't Well, no. No. The current development, there's a flat amount. It's $15,000 that's paid every year by the existing buildings. There's 31 there's 31 units in the existing let's call that Phase one. Phase two. Thank you. Phase one. K. Phase two will be So

there's 31 hangars? No. There's 31

buildings that have potential access to the hangar. Even if they don't put an airplane in there, even if they they have no intention of ever putting an airplane in there, They pay a proportional share of that $15,000, including me where I have an office. I don't have a hangar. I don't have any warehouse doors, but I pay a proportional share based on the percentage of overall space of the entire development. So each one of these

So, yeah, looking at these. So each one of these blocks, they will pay a $15,000 per year?

No. They'll pay they'll pay whatever the calculated amount is for the through the fees based on the square footage footprint of that development.

K? That exists somewhere?

Well, it hasn't been calculated yet, but they're gonna have to pay it. Like, we've already had conversations with NASA.

And I think the through the fence fees needs to be part of the discussion at the upcoming meeting. In what manner? How it's set when they're adjusted.

Right now, the through the fence fees are at about 25¢ per square foot per year. K? It's way too low. Yeah. Every consultant that we've hired to do anything regarding the airport, they have all come back and said it's too low. When was the last time it changed? It has never, like It has never changed. Nope. It's been set at 25¢.

It is set by an ordinance?

It's A

few schedule adopted each year as part of our budget. But yeah. Okay.

Well, the 25¢, I don't know if that relates to, like, the airport residents. We're we're just told it's $600 per year if you have an airplane.

And that's as a resident. If you have a plan, you pay that. If you have airplane axe or airport access, we don't have an airplane. You don't pay it currently. The recommendation from the financial consultants was if you have airport access, you pay the through the fence fee. Right. Because with the old analogy, if you live on a beach, you pay to live on the beach. Yeah.

I I agree. And I I think in talking to my airport neighbors. Yeah. We feel it's too low also. Yeah. So You know, we don't want we don't want to pay more than we have to,

but we think we think it's too low. Everybody everybody agrees with you. And part of the part of the situation is we don't decide. The airport board doesn't decide what it should be. Well, who who decides? Well, the council decides. Why How

do you make a recommendation into the council to say, this needs to

be We'll come up with a resolution. So, you know, if you wanna write up a resolution concerning raising those fees or at least have a discussion leading to that. But that's but that's how we as a

board I think it needs to go hand in hand with what we're trying to do here. I mean, we need to show some good faith that we have the ability to look at the revenue being generated at the airport. That's our charge. That's our charge. You know? And with us doing that, we also would like consideration on how that money is allocated, if you will.

I am 100% in agreement with you. Mhmm. Yeah. So but help me out here, Julian, because it's a while since we've really talked about these consultants and what they did for us. So not the consultants regarding the closed runway. Mhmm. Consultants before that that did the airport development. Airport Business Solutions. Yeah. Yeah.

That's not Business Aviation Group, which was, like, consultant number one. This will be consultant number two. They didn't finish their presentation to us completely at the last time I thought about this anyway, but weren't they supposed to give recommendation as to what the through the fence the

They did. It was the part of the presentation we got was a little bit time sensitive because we were pushing forward on separating the two agreements. The manager Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And that part wasn't done yet.

That will when it it was finished in that that chapter, whatever was, chapter eight, was presented to counsel in the context of here's the recommendations for splitting the agreements. The full report from ABS, which I know we've we've gone through, is 223 pages. So we're gonna read every word tonight from the start.

Sounds good.

The long story short on the report, current rates paid by the homeowners in the airport reflect a $600 annual fee paid to the town airport for through access. It should be noted that the current arrangement provides only the homes that actually own an aircraft paid through defense access fees. As a result, there are approximately 55 homes that have access and only 31 pay

the fees. As a result, with

the regard to the homeowners within the airpark that enjoy through the fence fees or through the fence access, it is recommended that the through the fence access fees to increase to a thousand dollars per home site annually to equitably contribute to the operations maintenance of the airfield. Moreover, every airpark home site that has direct taxiway access to the airship airfield should be paying the thousand dollar annual fee whether they own the airworthy aircraft and or choose to use the airfield access. In addition to the foregoing, it's recommended the town require the residential properties that have through the fence access to the airport to form a homeowner's property owner association. Even though there's an airpark HOA, there's not really a state recognized HOA. With an agreement with the town to address the airport rules, regs, fees, and minimum maintenance, the annual access due to the town should be paid to the town by the homeowner property owner association by a single check for $55,000 in year one as opposed to the town being required to collect 55 different checks.

Or the airport manager is essentially managing the same thing with the fund. But that money would presumably go into the fund. Mhmm.

And as our recommendation, consistent with FAA's recommended policy, commercial through the fence access fees can continue to be based upon a fixed fee equal to a 100 percent of the prevailing on airport unimproved ground rent based upon their total land area. That's more for ground leases. And note that the current through the fence fee is $600 a year for residential and 25¢ per square foot for commercial based off this last fee schedule. So we have the recommendation.

But they're not they're saying to change it from 25¢ to

Yeah. This is for the fifth 55 Airpark.

Right. That's a thousand bucks. Mhmm. That's how they get to 55,000 Correct. Per annual from the association.

The 25¢ one.

I don't if there

was a recommendation for changing the 25¢ one.

But if if we talk to Jason, he would quickly do that how he arrived at the $600. Mhmm. Because the $600 was as a result of the 25¢, and then it comes when he says it to you, it's like, oh, okay. That makes sense. The $600 relates to the per square foot price, which relates to the $55 a month tie down rate.

Like, it all calculates to that's how much he has to charge. So with the through the fence fees for the residents would go up. The tie down rate would go up. And probably ground leases, if somebody wanted to build a hangar on

the airport, it would be All the park works, big ground leases.

Right. But if somebody came in and put a fixed structure at the airport Yeah. It would include the footprint of that plus a strip allowed. He he knows that it's, like, 15 feet. That would be the annual through the Fed's fees. And then these presumably presumably would be that thousand dollars per year for every unit based on the square footage of each unit as it's divided up because they're condo.

The Schofield hangers, they pay six of those per hanger.

Okay. So it's commercial. Yeah. It's probably

on its the same it's handled the same as Nassar.

But but Schofield pays that, not the individuals with us. Right.

But I I think you have a good point in that addressing the those fees right there along with that should go kinda hand in hand showing, hey. Here's a chance to increase revenue, and we'd also like to propose this.

I agree.

But I think you're right on the way.

And our staff's goal in the past, you know, Todd kinda led this effort with ABS on this report and recognizing that our fees are way below where they should be, that they've been way below where they should be for a long time, that while the recommendation from the consultant was to increase fees to a thousand dollars per home site, every house who has access should pay whether they have a plan or not, and and and the staff did not support just pushing forward that to council and asking council to approve it without doing better engagement with the owners, you know, recognizing that if the town were to just come in and increase fees substantially across the board with no engagement from the air park or whomever, it would not be vet met very well.

But we do have an HOA that I don't know if you've engaged with them much. I have not yet. But, I mean, we do have an avenue to start a discussion with them to say, we gotta do something here. Yeah. Because we got this gem of an airport that is not financially viable. Mhmm. Yeah. And one of

the things in here because I've I've heard both sides that while there is an Erie Airport HOA, it's not like a state recognized HOA. And that was part of the recommendations in here is that the HOA kind of meet the requirements to be a state recognized actual homeowner property owner association. And by doing so, then the HOA collects those fees and remits them to the town

in one check instead of Jason in town. Take

them off each individual.

And you said enforcing regulation? Would that be oh.

I I what I heard from, I think, Jason and from Todd is that the Airpark HOA is not actually, like, a real established HOA. Things are changing. Okay. Is that right?

Yeah. It's getting more structured. Okay. There is a a gal that is heading up the charge. They actually had a yearly meeting here in this building. There is a website. Mhmm. Dues. So they're they're trying to, I think, become more of a state recognized organization. So I need to do a little better job of, you know, communicating with them some things that we're talking about here, and I think you and I need to do that together. Mhmm.

I'd like to do that together, actually. I was wondering if we could be what is it? When you work it separately

A committee. A committee?

Like, if we could be in committee for

Absolutely.

I don't know. I think that's helpful. And and the letter somebody sent me a letter

I did. Yeah.

That would do. That group of people, those are primarily those folks that live along the closed runway.

So I'm not sure, but you better tell me about the letter.

I understood that they were like there was a group of people that got together Yes. For that letter, and it was primarily comprised of not the full residents, but mostly the folks that whose property is adjacent to the closed runway. Right. Is that correct? That's correct. So it's it's a subset of right. Mhmm. It's my understanding too based on the letter that they've had a meeting. Yes.

And I have a summary.

Excellent. Okay. We'll get we'll have you do that. And then but but what you're saying is the larger collective group is talking, meeting, and their intention is to formalize that HOA that sorta legally doesn't exist anymore?

You know, I don't know, Paul, but it appears to me that that there is an effort

Oh, that's great.

To standardize our HOA Right. Into something that is perceived as an HOA because, you know, before it was like it was not an HOA.

Correct me if I'm wrong careful here. There was at times some of this going on in the past.

Yep. I mean, I've only been the three year.

No. I get it.

But Yeah. I hear there's history.

Okay. Good enough. We'll leave it at that. So I'm up to speed. Yeah. We should we should create a committee, like an air park air park engagement committee.

Yeah. So we can act like an official capacity. Mhmm. Yeah.

So Agree. Consider it done.

Wow. Look at the power.

It's amazing. But it's important that the tour you are on it, don't have any meetings with any more than the two of you. If you're gonna go meet with the the Airpark residents and the tour you were going, I can't go unless you announce the meeting and and Understood. Publicize it and invite anybody. K? That we just need to make sure we stay within the confines of public meeting versus nonpublic meeting. Otherwise, she'll get mad at me. Okay.

One last thing on the financials. Has anybody studied what the rate increases would need to be to get to revenue?

We have not. I've talked to some outside groups that do that. Moreover, like, kind of consultants that understand that the airport is currently not financially viable, and they would then help us put a plan together to figure out what it would take to get there. We haven't hired them yet. You know, we've we've done a lot in the last couple of years as far as, you know, the the study I mentioned, the ABS study, the BA group studies, the Crossman studies, the ED strategy studies. We've spent Proposed road. Yeah. That study, Roxul. I don't know. All kinds

of studies.

There's been, like, eight consultant studies and probably close to $203,100,000 dollars in consultants in the last couple years just for the airport. So we have not hired another consultant yet to do that, but that is something that has been offered to us to figure out, given the current the airport's current financial positioning, what would have to change to get it to that point. We just don't know that yet.

Well, I think the airport needs to build out further. Yes. And, you know, collect more revenue from more sources Yes. Right. To get to that point.

Through MSP. And that's coming. Yeah.

And and that is already in the works. Yeah. Hopefully, you know, some other stuff pans out and and get some more development going. You know, the NASA development will certainly help add more. I can tell you Rocky Mountain is raising their rates every year.

Mhmm. You know, couple hangers on the wall, but they're there. And, you know, as far as the commercial side of it, you just, you know, call the airport manager. That's I'm sure there's a dollars per square foot because they have plenty of ground leases over there too to figure out that number. So but I think for the homeowners that like you said, going from $600 taxed against 31 people versus a 55 is a big jump.

Mhmm. And some people that are, you know, using the access that they have, you know, will not be happy about that. Mhmm. How many home sites are there total?

I know.

That's the 55. They have access, not

Oh, yeah. But Like, fifty five minute

access to run Not every house in there has twice that. Yeah. More than that. Twice that that don't have access. Yeah.

And then there's some interesting ones on the South Side that I noticed that have kind of a almost like a dirt road access to get in

Oh, my old handshake agreement on

Well, there's a there's an easement Yeah. On there. His property. Yeah. We we were looking at that property last year before it is it under review now?

Not officially. No.

Not yet. Okay. They're trying to change he was looking to change the zoning in there to make it more viable overall and hoping that could parcel off some of it for airport use. But, you know, it wasn't for free. It wasn't gonna be for free. So, anyway, there's an easement down there at the south On the south.

Of the airport. Taxi down a dirt path to get to the runway on this easement. There's a

pretty good sized hangar about halfway through Mhmm. There that I saw the other day. So, anyway,

I think with respect to what you're saying, I think there's a sequence of events that kinda need to happen in a particular order. One would be, your point, determining a new rate and a recommendation to the council as to what the rate should be. Whatever rate is determined, that flows to all of the other participants, whether it be ground leases through the fence fees for you all, through the fence fees for these, tie down rates. All of that has to be legitimately calculated so that they're all kinda considered equal amongst the rate. Mhmm.

So for whatever price point you're getting between 600 and 1,000, that would apply to all the other

price points. I agree. And that's why I asked question. Has this been looked at globally? Well To know what

I don't think fuel flows,

tie downs, hangers, commercial No. You know, through the fence. No. You look at all those things and say, what is it that we need to adjust in order to get closer to being financial

keep going here because this is that's point number one is what should the rate be. Point or item number two is this bad boy here. Mhmm. Because what we have facing with is the issue with whatever revenue is generated into the, quote, unquote, fund right now. K?

The town, based on the ordinance that is written now, is obligated to take the revenue from the fund and pay essentially the biggest portion which is Jason's contract. Even though the town has budgeted $240,000 for Jason's contract, that's the annual contract amount, and then an additional to 150 that fluctuates based on how much it's gonna cost to fix the blade on the tractor, how much it's gonna cost to do this broken item. But it's budgeted at about 150. The $2.40 is fixed. It's Jason's getting it, not Jason.

The vector is yeah. But right now, if you get the finance report, it says the airport fund took in a $150,000. I'm just pulling a number out of my hat. Well, that 150 is going to pay Jason first. I understand. Our recommendation is to fix the issue with the fund because we feel that and we've made the recommendation, but we need to go further in what we're doing here. But it would be that the money that comes for all the from the residents, from Nassar, from Schofield,

for

any ground leases, goes into the fund and stays in the fund and is we only use buy and for the airport. At that point in time, when that's taken care of plus with the fees, then there's discussions that needs to be had with the new HOA that will be established on the two ten acre the two the 10 acre plots. Because right now, there is no HOA, so there isn't gonna be any through the fence fees because nothing exists. But eventually, we get to the point, not now, as to what are you gonna pay. We also should renegotiate the one for the one that I sit in because that really isn't commensurate with the 25¢ per square foot amount that was negotiated prior to the board existing between Jason and NASA.

But to to to out

loud, it it seems to me, like, you know, taking this into account with additional revenue that there should be a percentage of the revenue that comes from the through the fence, the commercial leases, the fuel flow should be a percentage that goes to pay Vectors cost. And then there should be a percentage of that revenue coming in that goes to the airport fund. And I think what we're proposing in this is it all goes into the airport fund. That is correct. Yeah. And I'm like, if I'm on the other side, I'd be scratching my head on that one, to be quite honest with you. No.

I get it. But we pay the town. This is the argument we made. The town pay someone to manage the rec center.

But if we're gonna sell this to the city council, it seems like we should say, we got a plan to increase the revenue. We're gonna take a percentage of that and pay for Vector and the management of the airport. And then the other percentage goes to the fund that hopefully builds so we can fund the FAA grants and that sort of thing.

Mhmm.

Okay. But right now, we don't know what revenue we need to get close to being revenue neutral. We haven't really talked about whether we'd be open to a percentage paying so the city doesn't pay the full vote. Because right now, the city's gonna go, why am I paying the full vote in this thing? The ordinance says I

shouldn't be paying anything. I think some of those discussions and debates have happened prior to your appointment to the board. So my recommendation at this point would be to sit down with some of the folks on the board and get the history about what has happened and what discussions we have had before we start unraveling what has already happened.

Okay. I'd just love to hear the history of it. But based on my three or four months of being involved in this, you know, I've looked at this one. Doesn't quite make sense. Respond to my text when I offered to come and meet with you that I didn't get an answer from. I I respond. Was out of town.

I'll leave it at that. We're moving on. We don't really have anything for the hangar committee. Correct.

Before we leave the the the study on the revenue Mhmm.

Where does that sit? It's just not what we've picked up yet. We've met with some consultants that offer that service. It's just not one we've brought forward to actually hire yet. I think maybe more to, like, Kevin and and Drew's efforts in the past with the letter that's been written, I think everybody's goal and but the advisory board's goal, maybe not as staff, but the advisory board's goal is to get the airport and the airport fund to be more financially self sufficient and at some point in the future to see that happen.

But in the meantime, until it isn't until it is, having the town contribute financially to it. So could we hire a consultant today to figure out that plan and what we need? What's the, you know, what's the goal of how much we need in the fees and revenues and dues and etcetera to pay for the balance to be able to afford the airport today? For sure. We could hire that anytime.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just it's it's gonna be hard for Jennifer and I to go to the HOA and say, we need to increase to a thousand dollars, and we need to have everybody pay instead of this $31.55. Mhmm. You know, if we had more information that says we have a plan Mhmm. To fund us a report, and we're just a part of that plan. Mhmm. Our plan is this. We need to step up and do this while other people are stepping up to do other things. Right. We don't have that plan.

Yeah. And if if this body kind of because this advisory board is the group that hired BA group. We hired EPS. We hired development strategies. If this group wants to maybe bring in that that other external consultant firm, Capstone Aero is the one that I met with that proposed to do this exact same scope and talk with that group about what that study may look like, we can bring them in and talk to you guys. It's we don't have the money in our department budget to hire the consultant this year, but we can always ask for it in supplemental midyear. It doesn't matter. If this group, this advisory board wants to bring that consultant firm on to do that effort, we can bring them to be with you guys anytime.

Well, I I think another thing that might help too you know, we've been trying since the beginning to try and understand all the revenue and and what it makes up and where it comes from. And that was a challenging process to kinda figure out. And the quarterly reports from accounting, you know, might be a path to, you know, kinda understand where everything's coming from. And then having them meet twice a year when they come in here and present that report to, you know, dive in and ask questions and get the detail on every part of it. The the commercials you know, by reaching out to some of the other airports here, I think we can find out what they're charging.

Because I know Metro looks over at Centennial and says, oh, well, you're charging this much, so we need to charge more. And they're raising their rates. And I I have been told that Sheffield, they've been raising their rates too despite the cost not going up, well, at least the through the fence cost. So Per individual rents. The individual rents are going up to Tri County hangars.

So I think maybe it doesn't necessarily need to be a full blown study that takes time and a lot of money, But I I think the information is out there. But getting that from accounting to us to understand, that's been a project that has taken, you know, a lot of effort to figure out, but the information's out there.

Does Jason's organization have a grasp on this? A grasp on what? The revenue income.

Yeah. They're they're they're the collector

of it. Right? We we as to Emmett's point, you know, spent the last five years literally battling this battle regarding the fuzziness of the fund. And that was our our very first resolution that we passed five years ago was to recommend that the town separate out the agreements between the airport manager and the tenant and as a result, the fund because we really didn't know what the heck was going on with respect to is it self balancing? Are we taking in enough revenue?

And it has taken quite a while for us to even get some of the clarity on that. And we've determined that the airport fund is never going to be self funding in the near future. It's going to take some work. Do we all believe in, I don't know, fifteen, twenty years if things go the way we see that they could go? Could it be to the point where the airport fund would bring in enough revenue to support all the projects and everything that's going on and then potentially entertain the suggestion that the town receive a percentage to help offset Jason's contract.

Yeah. But we are a long ways from that point because we have just become more educated, if you will, as to how much money is coming in, how much money is coming out. And it wasn't until very recently that we got clarity that the ordinance basically tells them that they need to take from the fund first. That's what they have to do. And this is why my concern with any of these projects, all of this money, if we get to the point where we're raising more money than we really need for our costs, guess how much we're gonna end up with?

Zero. And part of the thing that I'm used to list, and I've been very, very blunt with the cap the trustees because it was trustee meetings that we did it. It's like, okay. You bought the airport for a million bucks. The FAA gave you 700. You took out a loan from the other 300. Close the runway. Now you can develop the two intersecting plots because if you got a crosswind runway, you have to maintain sight lines and you can't build on those corner lots. Okay. Now you can.

They sold those three lots for 300,000 approximately curve. 300,000 went to pay off the note. So the town got the airport for free. What happened to the other 300,000? Town took it.

The airport fund didn't get to keep it, and that's the issue I have with the current situation is because the way the the the ordinance is written, the way the clarity which we're just getting, thanks to the finance staff because they've been putting in a lot of work to get us what we were looking for, we are now understanding how this whole thing has been working. It needs to change, and there's a lot of pieces to those changes. There's the ordinance. There's the rates that we're charging. There's how it gets paid, and there's the what is everybody gonna pay when their when their development is finished?

We're a long ways from getting to the point where it's self funding. And then at some point in time, could they pay for a part of Jason's contract? Sure. Do I believe that they should be paying now? No. Fund should not be paying Jason's contract now. And this is what part of the history. What I'm talking about is this is where Todd, who has helped us a great deal with this public works director, that's not his title anymore. Utilities. You know, his philosophy, and we all agreed with it, is that the rec center that gets funded by the town.

Yeah. They create some revenue, but I based based on the conversations we had with Malcolm, what it is, it's like $4,000,000 a year that the town provides for the operation of the rec center, which covers the money that the rec center doesn't take in. They take about 1,000,001 half a year in fees. Right? Something like that. I don't know. It's been a while. But it's a shortfall and the town funds it. Why the heck could you own this property? Why are you not funding it as part of your general fund?

Well, we, as part of our efforts, convinced the town as part of the splitting up of the contract to put on the general fund budget $240,000 a year to manage the airport. That's done. That's contract signed. But we face the issue with the ordinance saying, yeah. So what they do is they take the 240. They put it on the books. They backfill it with airport fund money. And then at the end of the year, if the airport fund money didn't cover the air airport management, which it doesn't, well, then they'll move the money from the general fund into the airport fund to breakeven.

Well, not only that. Every year that it's short is theoretically building up That's correct. A number that that once once it does go positive, start have to paying them back. It's kinda like a low. I mean, I I hear what you're saying, and and I think it's valid point.

Very valid.

The big thing is making sure like, I think the biggest thing is that it doesn't tally all the you know? And and secondly, be able to pay for, you know, capital improvement projects and the like. But, yeah, it's a valid point. You have to you have to sell it to them. It has to make sense to them.

You know? And like it's been said, everybody here is trying to improve the economic asset that is the airport that, yes, it loses money every year, but it provides 50 jobs and million in payroll every year. And and people come to the airport to get their propeller fixed, to get their annual done, to go to flight odyssey hours and build their flights up, stay locally in the latter case. So there's a lot of benefits that come from the airport to the town as a, you know, a job center. So the Nassar project, that'll create more money.

You know? And then raising all the rates, you know, that creates more money. And then it's just a simple spreadsheet. Okay. Income, expenses, you know, what does it need to get where does it need to go to balance out? And and, yeah, that's probably a fifteen year project to get there.

You know, maybe the indirect benefits are worth $240,000 to the city. You know? It it's how you sell that to them.

Well, initially, when we were you know, we wanted to separate management and and tenant with with VectorAir, and so we did that. But before we did that, VectorAir was providing a great service by, you know, managing the airport for peanuts, basically, and providing all this all the through the fence fees, we're paying for capital improvement projects and some other stuff too. Yes. And a lot of lot of stuff got done over, I don't know, ten year period or whatever, but the building was in disrepair, essentially worth nothing. And so we're trying to separate that out to be able to improve that billing, to improve the image of the airport, you know, overall.

So I mean, it's it's gonna be a process. So but I think the revenue side, you know, that can be that's not it doesn't take paying $50,000 to consult or whatever it is to figure that out. I think, you know, reaching out to some airport managers can find that out pretty quick.

Good? I'm good. Alright. Hanger committee. I talked to Drew about we were all supposed to provide input to him for questions to ask on a supplemental questionnaire.

He told me he hasn't heard from anybody. I know he's heard from me because I gave him something. But at your charge, please contact Drew. Give him some recommendations as to questions to ask on this questionnaire that we would like to send people to get more input regarding types of hangers, size of hangers, cost of hangers.

And it would be sent to everybody that signed up on the interest form. Correct.

Which now would probably a $170,100? No.

We're not

there yet.

Well Of course. It's a lot. Some of them are probably stale. K? So between now and the next meeting, because he's gonna come and we're gonna talk about it, reach out to him and give him some suggestions on what you think would be good questions to ask.

Any questions? Yeah. Fair.

Phase one is done. Have people reaching out as far as sponsorship and vendors already. A little bit of a for quite a bit of space. We're gonna try and increase the area where the food trucks were surrounding the vendors, and we're looking to have, like, five people be, like, coordinators coordinating certain things. I've talked to David at the Recess Factory about some additional safety measures along the ramp to keep people off the grass.

Just there's there's a bunch of things as far as safety goes that keep me up at night, especially after a certain person They're low flow by. There's some kind of low Fly by. Low activities with the smoke on. But, anyway, depending on the budget, you know, I'd like to have maybe even hire a dedicated person that deals with just the air side of that. But I have a friend who's an air boss.

Fortunately, September is a very busy month for activities. There's some going on every weekend in multiple places. So but September 7 is gonna be it. We're gonna do it a little bit earlier than we did before. We started eleven. We're gonna start at ten. And we're definitely looking for volunteers. And I'd love for you guys to kinda interface with the HOA. Last year not last year. Two years ago, there was one person that was pretty vocal and and was like, wait.

I didn't know about this. And then dug back through the emails and then apologized. But we paid for additional sign signage last time. We put one right on Bonanza to keep people from coming to the airpark.

Could you utilize them as part of the duly formed engagement Absolutely. Committee to Yes. Help do that part of it?

It's gonna be a little tricky this year with the construction on Highway 7.

I was wondering about that. We probably because that's their sign says it's going to October. Yeah.

But the last event, didn't they bring everybody in off of County Line?

Correct. Yeah.

We did have some access for vendors off of Airport Road. But at this point, with the way it stands right now, and you guys live there, you work there, there's no way we can have people. Because if we have people, if we tell anybody, even vendors or or whatever, and if they come down and make a wanna make a left turn, the left turn lane is gone. Mhmm. Yep.

So now they're they're gonna back up traffic, and that's gonna create an issue. So we may we may structure it to where everybody goes down county line. I know Longmont last year, they had they had a really strange like, you must go, you know, southbound on the road and turn right. You cannot if you're going north, you couldn't turn left.

You kinda hop past it and come around.

But and then there's, you know, the fact that you put anything in the right of way of Highway 7, and now you can see DOT's approval for it. So it's likely, unless things change dramatically, that there'll be any access on Airport Road. But then there still have to be signage, and there's still people that are not gonna see anything that's posted or you know? And they're gonna say, oh, well, that's where the airport entrance is because there's there's a sign there. So last

time we dropped we tried as best we could to drive traffic to COVID. And you've already opened, and I just opened, and so a lot of people didn't know about it. That's tricky. I forgot about that part. And who would we avail ourselves with the town to be able to have a conversation with CDOT regarding where that entrance will be in September? Because they're saying October. What entrance? The in airport drive.

Yeah. I mean, that's

Help me out here. Didn't the last time and then didn't we? We put the vendors through

We put vendors and that was it. And we had unfortunately, these signs are are one-sided, and they're expensive. Yeah. Yeah. And so we had it facing one way. If you're going the other way, you couldn't see it.

Mhmm. But my question is, would it be helpful for you and all of your planning if you knew or had a good idea as to what the status of that project would be?

It's Yeah. I I mean, I could do some research and try and see what their plans are, but

well, somebody in the town probably overs

not oversees the project, but has kind of a point. They're well versed.

I think at this point, try and, you know, plan for everything on County Line and assume that there'll be limited access for Airport Road. Gotcha. And, you know, I just don't want a string of traffic trying to turn left. Mhmm. Because we had Right. We no. I've got wood. We had a good traffic plan that worked, and there to my knowledge, there weren't any big backups.

I'm sorry. And we had a light to bring everybody in. So I think that would happen. Let us know, but let Julian know if you need that kind of information. Yeah.

I mean, if that's if that's available, that your that'd be helpful. Do. It's fine. But there's yeah. Until they you know, I I don't know what the ultimate plan is for the, you know, the build out

of this I don't either. Project. I mean, I don't know

if they're planning to go to four lanes or you know? Eventually, I I would think it would be, but they there there's a lot of work that has to be done to get to that with the topography and

the But even if you had a light there, you still wouldn't want everybody coming in off

of No. Because that could easily back up. Yeah. And and Highway Seven's bad enough.

And have you talked to those guys that own the the farm?

We'll see you next week.

You why don't we

see you next week? No. Paul and I are meeting with the landowner next week. Oh, really? The civitas I

thought you oh, you sent me a business card. Yeah.

I say call. The land He's expecting you Okay. To call him because he already pretty much said, yeah. It's not a problem.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But he he you should call that guy because he's

the one you're gonna have to talk to. Bob.

Yeah. Bob. He's anticipating you're going to ask him, and he's already sort of said well, he has basically directly said, oh,

of course. We'll do it. No problem.

Ask him to the dance, man.

Come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the other thing is if they're you know, the timing worked out last time with the was it hay production and harvesting or whatnot? That's either they weren't doing it or it wasn't an issue. They even mowed the field for us.

Yeah. Yep.

So They've been very, very helpful. Yeah. We're we're shooting for about the same number of people. I don't thought that was a pretty good number. There's probably I don't remember what the parking lot looked like, but it was full. If it was When when was

the date of the last event?

It was September 23. September 10. Sept September 10. The last one. Oh, jeez.

They had

hit off by September 10. Yeah. Because I remember watching them mow the field thinking, what are they doing over there? But

Yeah. I don't Okay. I I don't know a lot about Haybrush. I don't like the

But do you have the if the previous one is the tenth, then you're saying we're gonna do the seventh. You're probably pretty safe. Yeah. If it was a month earlier, you probably Right.

But I don't think they seeded that year for

Do you have to seed for him? I don't know. You I don't know these things.

Yeah. Normally not. No.

So but they were they were very helpful last time, you know, and they they were one of the sponsors. So that that was a huge piece of the puzzle.

Couldn't have done it without them.

Because the previous year, it was on Masters. That's Block that's about to be developed. And I think there was a shuttle. And anyway.

So Jennifer and I reached out to you about helping, and you came back and said you're looking for five to seven planners, coordinators. Then you gave us a list, permitted volunteers, or grants. Sure. It's a. Do you have a little description of what you're looking for for each one of those so that when we do go to some of our neighbors and say, you wanna participate? How about you being involved with the aircraft? What does that mean? You know, what do we tell them?

Okay.

Yeah. I mean, the aircraft's gonna be well, Vector Air helped park airplanes, and we had them in fairly early. Not all of them, but a good portion of them.

I guess something about, you know, drawing in airbag for static display. You know, we have people at the airport that have friends, that have friends, that have b 20 fives that, you know, we can probably A b 25? That we could probably get. You

know? Imagine great times. Right. Well,

that's a good thing. And we had an area that was just I'll call it Warburgs for lack of a a better term. So we had the the Twin Beach.

Mhmm.

We had a Steerman t twenty eight, T 6, BT13. That was a surprise visit. But, yeah, B 25 would be great. One thing you brought up, which was inviting in Ames. Is it up there? Okay. Ames and maybe Metro State and getting it to be kind of an interactive and engaging experience. And so this time, I'm like last time, I was like, okay. Get as many airplanes as you can. This time, it's more about trying to engage people and not having a huge volume of aircraft.

But, I mean, obviously, Warbirds, that one's always a big draw. People, you know, were flocking to all that, and they were kinda parked along the edge of the ramp there. And Drew has has said that he would also engage with the army because because we were supposed to we found out ten days before the event that the army wasn't able to come. They were gonna bring a helicopter, which was a big draw eight years ago, I think it was, the previous one. So we have kind of the logistics worked out on that.

So parking and staging of aircraft, the volunteers is telling people, you know, having a meeting, kinda coordinating schedules, and making sure everyone knows what to do with that. The permit side, I'm mostly involved with that. So I'll probably be doing that. That's probably gonna be my primary.

So you think we'll start having a separate planning session monthly planning session? Because there's only,

like, one? There's a little less than five. Yeah. So, yeah, I I intend to have a meeting here probably in the next month over at Vector Air because they they're a big part of coordinating all this stuff. So and then the vendors coordinating the layout, you know, and as they all arrive, fortunately, we got kinda sucked into that last time and, and, you know, weren't able to focus on other things, kind of big picture things.

Yeah. I think my only point is we wanna help you. We just Great. Quite sure. So Okay. Do you let us know. Okay. And if you're meeting at Vector and that's the first time to bring it together Sure. We just wanna help you. Awesome.

So do

you have any idea where the

town and EEDC stand on an agreement?

They've they've they've agreed to be that Right. The intermediary, and we have the money. So I haven't written the agreement, but as soon as I do, they'll sign it. We have we have a budget. Okay. I've talked to Victoria a bunch, and she's like, yeah. We're in. They sold $4,000 of yours from last year last two years ago that's available to support. So as soon as you guys are ready to start paying money, they're ready to start signing checks.

Okay. Cool.

We have all the approvals with the town that we

So we have we have phase one, which is feasibility The date location. Yeah. Date location. Phase two is the meat of it, which has to be done

sixty days prior.

If there's liquor, ninety.

Ninety? Mhmm. Okay. But that date's written in stone already. That's not gonna get fouled.

Let's see the liquor part of it.

Oh,

I think it's ninety days for step one. So you're already through that. It might be sixty.

Is it the liquor pen instead?

Yeah. There's a beer pen.

Yeah. There's a a right in front of the MBO on the grass there, there was a fenced off area in the Rotary Club. Took tickets for donations to the Rotary and distributed the the beverages. And then you had

to drink it inside.

And you had to drink it inside. Yeah. And this year, the last last time we relied on Flightco Brewing and okay. Absol. Absol. Absol. Thank you. And the the the gallon of Absol was great. Unfortunately, there there was a lot of beer left over. And we had to coordinate a return because Rotary did not wanna keep it.

So in the interest of trying to keep it simple, I just saw one of the owners of FICO the other day who's teaching at Erie now. I would just want them to be the the provider. He actually asked the question of do you want me to serve it too? But I kinda like engaging the rotary. Mhmm. And it's it provides benefit to them in what they do for the community. So so I think we'll we'll likely just go with that. So there'll be a beer garden. There'll be a beer garden. Okay.

I still have cups left over from the last one. Trying to think what else. Yeah. I mean, there's some logistical concerns. Last time, the weather wasn't that great.

It kept a lot of the the practice traffic away on a Sunday afternoon. This time, I think we're gonna have to take a more proactive approach on that, like, via NOTAM and or an air boss on the frequency like a Unicom, kinda directing people to not be in the pattern or perform approaches, practice approaches. So but we definitely wanna engage, you know, so that would be a great thing. Having, you know, fire department, they were really good about coming out. People love that.

Jason brought out tractor. People love that too. So not everybody loves airplanes as much as us here. And so, you know, engaging the community, providing a value. What does the airport do for them? You know, that connection there is is that's the mission.

You had live music and sky numbers and whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. We had I don't know if that was there in the past, but we had a stage with a band there throughout, and we're gonna have the same one this year. That's Bianca and the Flyboys. It's like a seven piece. They do forties all the way up to nineties music, and she's really good. So

yeah. When I remember from one a year ago, you know, and one that I went to, there was a lot of kids. Yeah. A lot of kids. It seems like it should be kind of kid centric almost.

Yeah. For sure. We had two bounce houses last time, and some and a number of the vendors will be kinda kid oriented. Like, one that keeps calling writing me has some kind of kid experience. I'm not sure what's going on with that.

But, yeah, it's it's not just about airplanes. And that's why the the other the fire truck, the you know, all the other stuff Tractor. And and, you know, if Michael Boutin was here, he'd say, you know, engaging those kids towards aviation, you know, opening doors, you know, telling them what's available, what you know? Because for some, that's not they don't even think about that. So This

is, like, really wanting aims to be there, and I've I did get my email saying that they did accept, which is amazing because they they rarely do.

Oh, wow.

But they have a trailer, and in the trailer, they have VR simulators.

Oh, cool.

You could go in and the the kids can interact.

Yeah.

Also, it that college offers something called congruent enrollment for high school students to attend college classes tuition free. So if I can let our families here in Erie know that they can go to college tuition free and all these little aviation. Not just aviation. That's just my area.

Yeah. Yeah.

For families to learn that. Oh,

that's great.

Be be powerful. Yeah.

So I'm I'm definitely looking for as much help as we can get, as many volunteers as we can get. And then, you know, we'll we'll coordinate some meetings periodically along the way and then kinda bring everybody in on that process.

Just call back Scott and Angelia.

Angela? Sorry. Oh. And Scott Belviez. I haven't talked to Scott in a while, but

Just can't imagine an airfare without him driving around a golf cart.

No. Angela, I talked to frequently, and she was on the board before. She lives over in Compass and has an airplane at the airport and is another airline person. She's definitely involved, and she'll be kind of a co chair again. That's great.

So and then sponsorship. You know, we had maybe 10 sponsors last year. The more sponsors we can get, and we'll have a pamphlet for that, you know, for people going out to if you know any businesses that would be interested. The more money we can raise might might mean that we don't have to rely on on the town money as much. Would be great.

How much did you raise from sponsors last time? We raised about 6,000, and I think we had maybe 1,500 in fees. The vendors, it was, like, $50 of space, I think. Maybe a little bit more than that. And then anyone that was a nonprofit, we didn't charge for spaces.

So we had, like, Wings Over the Rockies. We had EAA chapter forty three. We had our board and a couple oh, we had CDOT Board of Aeronautics Right. There along with there's an RV seven that's got a Colorado thing on the tail. He's related to one of the people on the board of Marathonics.

Well, not the board. She's in another capacity. But, anyway so they were there too. Flight Odyssey was it Odyssey Flight? They had an airplane vector on an airplane. I think Odyssey might have had two.

Jason pulled out the Pilatus, and he had his service out there.

Yeah. We had we had some static airplanes right in front of the terminal, and we just kinda wrapped tape around them. So because you have a static airplane and you have thousands of people going through. If you don't have somebody on it, then all of a sudden you look up and there's a steerman and the engine's turning. And that's not a good thing. So less concerned with the volume of airplanes that are on static display, more having meaningful displays that engage the community. So

yeah.

And any suggestions you guys have? You know?

Question? Sure. So if a homeowner would like to have a booth or something like that

Right. Actually, one of the homeowners, the Braun brought this boy scout troop out of tent. But, yeah, they can they can reach out to me, and we'll start putting together a list for that.

And that would be $50, or would you waive the fees for half price?

I mean, if it's someone trying to make money off the the space, then then there would be a fee. Yeah. And I think we had 40 or 50 spots in total. So I don't know if we had to turn people away or not. I think we may have. We had about 10 food trucks last time. So we'll be reaching out to probably most of them. Most of them ran out of food. And a lot of them ran out of food because we expected, like, two or 3,000. And the estimated amount was five based on the number of cars parked in the parking lot in a formula.

So yeah, cool. Thanks.

Community engagement, Michael's not here. But

Yeah. And I'd like to partying. Share that meeting, if I could, with everyone.

Which one?

So there was a meeting of homeowners Right.

Adjacent. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. Do that now.

Yeah. Sorry. I'm not sure. I don't have I don't know if I have enough for everybody. But it's just kind of a summary of that meeting that took place.

Oh, you're fine. I'm fine. You guys are the board, not me.

But yeah. So the homeowners met on April 5, and it was all the adjacent homeowners to the Crosswind Runway. They came together to kinda share their thoughts, perspectives on that study with the different land use options that were proposed. And, I don't know if you want me to read this to you. Or

It's up to you.

I'll read it to you. Alright. So I'll begin with, like, how does this community use this land? So current use in community value. So we had 23 people at that meeting.

City, Erie Airpark homeowners, the Crosswind Runway is far more than unused land. It is a vital aviation corridor, a haven for wildlife, and a defining element of the community's character. So when we hone in on aviation access and operations, the Airpark is uniquely designed to provide homeowners with direct access to the airport for many residents across when taxiway and runway service essential connectors to the active Runway 3416. Next, the resident, as residential and commercial development expands towards the airport boundaries, maintaining a designated emergency landing area is increasingly critical. The Crosswind Runway has served this purpose.

Several precautionary and emergency landings over the years on the Crosswind Runway emphasize the need to to preserve this area for aviation safety. Helicopter operations along this corridor are viewed as beneficial to the airport's overall functionality, separating rotorcraft activity from fixed wing traffic can enhance safety and efficiency by reducing risk of midair conflicts, mitigates wake turbulence, eases runway congestion, and promotes a smoother traffic flow. And then open areas are essential for hot air balloons, operations, and other aircraft with limited control over landing sites providing a safe, accessible, and obstructured zone for landing. And then, with environment and wildlife stewardship, open space around Erie Airport, including undeveloped areas near the Crosswind Runway, play a vital role in supporting native Colorado wildlife, including hawks, meadowlarks, albums, foxes, coyotes, and other species. These natural areas provide a habitat in a safe movement corridor contributing to the ecological richness richness and rural character of the community.

In addition to supporting biodiversity, open space helps manage runoff, improves air and water quality, reduces heat, and enhances the overall quality of life for residents by maintaining a nature connected living environment. And then as you move on to community, you know, homes in the Erie Airpark are situated on spacious lots, typically averaging one acre or more. These large parcels have an enhanced privacy, the flexibility to incorporate features such as garage and hangers or additional structures. Large lots contribute to a high quality of life, help property values, provide extensive outdoor living spaces, and serve as a natural buffer against surrounding expansion, enhancing both safety and long term investment. Properties located adjacent to the Crosswind Runway have additional benefits, including unobstructed views and an increased sense of openness and direct access to aviation infrastructure.

Bonanza Drive, North Of Sunset Drive, primarily serves the Erie Air Park residence as it does not function as a through a through street. This limited access greatly reduces nonresidential traffic, enhancing safety, creating a quieter, more secure environment for families, children, and pets within the community. Now moving on to proposed development, residents expressed a range of concerns regarding potential redevelopment of the Crosswind Runway area. These concerns highlight a multi facet nature of how redevelopment would impact both functionality of the air pack and the daily lives of those who rely on it and live within it. So for aviation safety, Homeowners expressed the importance of preserving open space for aviation safety.

Losing an emergency landing site poses a serious safety risk for both pilots and the surrounding community. These open areas provide critical options during inflight emergencies, reducing the risk of accidents in residential business areas. Open safe space is especially important in airports where emergency landings are more likely. Once lost to development, such stations are difficult to replace, making their preservation essential for long term aviation safety. Residents deeply value the unique lifestyle that the air park offers where residential living is purposefully integrated with direct access to the airport.

This connection is essential to the community's design and function, and any development that compromises runway access risk, undermines its core purpose, and diminishes property values. A few community members support, express support for town to pursue some solar initiatives. However, the proposed location raises significant safety compatibility concerns. Glare and reflection from solar panels can distract pilots during the critical phases of flight. Additionally, solar rays may introduce electromagnetic interference, potentially affecting the aircraft instruments and communication.

When located within the airport, these risks can also extend to residents. Beyond aviation safety, concerns have been raised about noise, environmental impact, and they overall are fit of such a project within the character of the neighborhood. Homeowners generally support responsible hangar expansion. However, concerns were raised regarding the proposed location on the Crosswind Runway as it is situated in the middle of surrounding homes. Increased hangar capacity may lead to higher air traffic, and the growing residential development around the air airport makes it essential to carefully consider placement, proactively address potential noise impacts.

Even established airports can face political pressure to restrict operations when residential concerns grow. The proposed site also raises operational issues. Aircraft would need to cross Runway 3416 at midfield as the Eastern Taxiway is a private easement for air park residents and not a public taxiway. Midfield crossings are discouraged by both the FAA and the FBO due to surf safety concerns. Residents do not support the development of a large hydroponic greenhouse on airport property, citing safety, compatibility, and quality of life concerns.

The FAA imposes strict height and land use restrictions near airports to protect navigable airspace, and federally funded airports are obligated to identify and mitigate potential hazard hazards. In addition to height concerns, greenhouses may pose risks such as glare, electric electromagnetic interference, light distractions, and increased security issues. When situated within the airport, these issues may also directly affect homeowners. Instead, many homeowners support a community garden. As an alternate explored in this study that aligns with neighborhood values and avoids aviation related risk.

Disruption, residents highlighted concerns about the potential destruction of wildlife habitat and disruption of the area's natural ecosystem due to increased development. Open spaces surrounding the air parks support a variety of native species, and residents value the presence of wildlife as part of the community's natural natural character. Increased construction activity could fragment these habitats and reduce biodiversity. Many residents emphasized the importance of preserving the ecological balance and scenic beauty that contribute to the area's identity and appeal. So under property and community impact, access to the proposed development site was a significant concern to residents as the Crosswind Runway does not have public access.

Proposed solutions such as purchasing the property at 150 Sessna Drive or creating an easement across residential parcels to connect with Bonanza Drive to the east were met with considerable opposition. Homeowners expressed concerns about potential native impacts on property values, visual aesthetics, and the overall character of the neighborhood. Many shared that introducing any of the proposed development options could undermine the visual harmony and natural beauty that define the area. Residents emphasized the importance of preserving the community's unique identity. Their input reflects a shared desire to maintain the qualities that make the neighborhood both beautiful and distinctive.

In addition to environmental concerns, resonate expressed a strong apprehension about the increased noise, congestion, and activity disrupting the airpark's established sense of privacy. A key concern centered on increased vehicle traffic along Bonanza Drive, a road designed to support local residents. Many noted that higher traffic at volumes would compromise the residential nature of the community and raise serious safety concerns for families, children, and pets. Several residents also fear that increased access would lead to elevated crime risk and compromise the neighborhood's sense of securities. These concerns reflect a shared commitment to preserving the airpark's identity as a low density neighborhood defined by its open space, unobstructed views, and the emphasis on safety for both residents and aircraft operations.

Alternative ideas for land use that were suggested, residents overwhelmingly support preserving the areas existing character and strongly oppose development that could limit access, disrupt the surrounding landscape, or reduce property values. Open space. Residents expressed a strong preference for preserving both the natural beauty and functional purpose of the area. Many emphasized the importance of maintaining the space as undevelopment undeveloped green belt or designated open space to protect its ecological value, scenic views, its role in supporting the airport's aviation operations. This approach would help retain the community's unique character, limit incompatible development, and ensure long term compatibility with residents and aviation uses.

Land convenience. Homeowners ask the city to consider transferring ownership of the land to the Air Park residents. Doing so enable the community to preserve the Crosswind Runway as open space or a green belt, ensuring it remains protected from development and aligned with the character values and vision of the Air Park neighborhood. So conclusion is the Crosswind Runway area is a vital piece of aviation structure and sorry. In infrastructure, a natural habitat, and a defining feature of life at Erie Airpark.

The community urges the town of Erie to ensure that resident perspectives play a crib a central role in any future redevelopment decisions. By doing so, the town can help protect the unique character of the airport and ensure that future planning reflects long term interests of those who call it home.

Thank you. Can you make sure that this doc do you have a digital copy of this? Can you send that to Julian so that Julian can add it to the documents as part of this meeting? It's part of our

That goes I think Michelle does with the minutes. Yes? Okay. Okay. So Thank

you as an adviser, Barbara. She gave it too.

Thank you.

What's the condition of the Crosswind Road being right now? You can make an emergency landing on it if you had 40 mile an hour winds coming out of the West. I'd I'd put my RV seven down on it if I had to.

Okay. And that has pretty small tires.

Yeah. Okay. It wouldn't be a fun trip, but it it could be done.

And each year, it it's gonna get a little bit worse, potentially. It's it's asphalt. Broken asphalt. Broken asphalt. Okay. It was asphalt. It was asphalt. Okay.

But I think the, you point about emergency landing is is legitimate.

Yeah. What I mean, one thought I had was I forget. Is it the North Taxiway or the South one that's on airport land right now? South. The South one? Mhmm. Okay. Well, potentially, if you had a big enough taxiway and, you know, and you were to redevelop that or improve that taxiway, that could potentially, you know, be an emergency spot too. Not quite the same. You know? You like yeah. You wanna have as much space as you can.

I mean, I mean, it's a closed runway. You're not supposed to use it.

But Right.

If the winds are 40 out of the west, then you don't have any option.

Yeah. And people with bigger tires like it too. That's what I'm told.

I have a couple questions. You've mentioned 23 people who were at the meeting. Mhmm. Of that 23, do you know how many were in properties that are adjacent to the Majority. Are there 23 houses that align?

No. There there there's more than 23 houses that align that property. I think we had a majority of the homeowners to 10.

So of the 23, almost all of them were lots that are adjacent to the closed roadway. Mhmm. There's that many houses? Yeah. You can see

them there. I I just quickly count 20. I'm gonna take that around the picture.

There's one that's got a double lot here. And assess the dry bot. Is that sold? It's sold.

You know?

Alright. Not to us. No. Do we know how many emergency landings have occurred on the runway since it's been closed?

I a lot of them have witnessed these emergency landings. There's some way to test to emergency landings on there. Like, I know there are precautionary landings, and then there is an emergency landing, and it it was, like, sued within the last two years.

Is that right? So at least one.

Emergency. And then there's been a lot of

There was a lot of fat tire guys who will do it Yeah. Cause. Mhmm. That doesn't count.

It doesn't count. It doesn't. Yeah. I I know a lot of them could speak to its use, which I I really enjoyed listening to. Like, the the helicopters. I mean, do you know exactly what happened on that runway?

I thought the helicopters all practiced in front of my house.

They're all racing. They do both. They do both.

Yeah. I would rather have them. I had one

resident that told me they didn't particularly like the helicopters, you know, early in the morning, showing up to practice, and this was when that there was a school over at operating a pretty good fleet. But now the one here, Front Range, they've got two helicopters. They seem to be a little more active

than the

Very active. Yeah. There's two helicopters. Very active.

Did they give you any indication of what they thought development activities that would compromise runway access risks?

I'm not

sure I understand your question.

It says any development that compromises runway access risk undermining its core focus. I'm just trying to get a sense to what they expressed in the meeting. Know, what compromise and what wouldn't in their mind or what anything compromise.

It was a long range, but most all the development suggested in that report.

Including residential homes, hangar homes?

I I probably need to ask that deeper.

Right now, I mean, I I keep my plane at Warren Hodapps. It's the last one on the upper section where the pavement is still black. That's where my plane is. So I cross an Alpha three.

Yeah.

Doesn't everybody?

Everybody at the h o eight does. Well, some people do go to the end.

The links of that in the South End.

But they have that permission from Right. I think certain people You have to seek out permission to be able to go

No. For value. The taxiways are open to any airplane activity on on On the East Side. On the East Side.

So bravo tax I don't have

to give Nolan's approval or Scott's approval. Oh, okay. Is a easement that we all have. So even though I have to maintain my 200 feet of asphalt out there Yeah. Anybody can use it.

So Taxiway Bravo is pseudo public.

Yeah.

Okay. But my more importantly, my question is Alpha 3 is the prescribed or recommended cross crossing point for the runway?

I think the FBO and FAA, so you should cross at the end. You not midfield.

That was in there. Well, right. That's what I'm that's what I'm hearing. I caught that, and I'm like, wait a minute. That's where I'm

But the reality of the airport side taxiway is I really can't get to the north end with my small tired RV, and I really can't get to the south end with my small tired RV. Oh, okay. And I can get to Alpha 3 really easily.

Right. Well, that's that's and that's a valid point. Like Right. Condition doesn't allow you to get there.

Yeah.

Certain people may maintain their portion or stretch of 250 feet, while others may not have enough room. As evidence, not that that not that this is the same thing, but I would never in a million years take my Cirrus past the end of that dark asphalt. No way.

Because then

I think asphalt.

Back to the HOA thing. What you just described was different than my general understanding from talking to one person. And that led to conflict within the

Yeah. The The conflict was people walking their dogs on the taxiway. Whereas taxiway, that used to be used for airplanes only. Right. Yeah.

That was the conflict. Gotcha. 150 Cessna Drive. That's under contract. Sold. Right?

I think so. Yeah.

Don't know who bought it, but somebody Yeah.

Go ahead.

This might be updated as well. It's long. It's going

to work.

Did you get a sense from your folks in the meeting as to what specific uses they were absolutely positively, like, this ain't gonna fly versus which ones they thought they could live with.

I don't think they want anything.

Well, I understand that. But

So I didn't get a sense that anything would be welcome.

At all?

None of the proposed ones here.

Even residential

That one, I might I might explore bit more. I might need to ask a little bit more.

Okay. I know when the consultant provided the report regarding potential uses, the board that was on at that point in time, I don't believe it included you yet. Were you on that vote that we had? We took a we took a vote with

the vote. Was she abstaining?

Yeah. I did. I

did. With Alacer. I did vote

on that. Yeah. You did vote on it? Okay. I think it was pretty clear amongst the board members that, really, the only development that we felt would fit would be some sort of a hanger or hanger home for residential development. I feel pretty strongly about it simply because it's a residential air park. I don't think really any other use. And, again, I'm just speaking as one person. I don't think and we talked about it when we sat down together, you and I. Yeah.

I don't think any other use really fits for it in terms of developing the property. I also expressed to you because you had told me that one of their concerns was maintaining access to the runway. I don't know if anybody disagrees. It's almost access by right because it is a residential airport. I think anything that happens to that property would have to ensure that both the north and the south continue to have access to the runway because it's I think you run into a huge legal battle, and I'd be on the side of the the residents to ensure and guarantee that you continue to have the access.

If not, in my mind, and we talked about it, the access would be improved, not degraded. Mhmm. It needs to be improved. So yeah. I just underline other things, incompatible development. Clearly, I think we're probably on the same page with the residents in terms of what isn't compatible.

I think so.

I don't think any of us think a a lettuce farm is gonna work.

No. No.

No. The solar farm, I think we all have the same. And I think it was either you or Jason brought it up. It's like, hey. The FAA made the way you're not doing a solar farm.