Public Utilities and Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the first ever, Sustainability and Infrastructure Committee meeting. I say this is the first, meeting because, this is the combining of the current president has made some changes to some committees, and one of those is to combine open space environment and energy and public utility public works. So this would be the first meeting of that committee. So welcome all.

Before we get into any agenda items, I'm gonna read, this blurb that allows us to do this meeting remotely. So pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the city of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. I am the chair of this committee, Jesse Klingen, and we have tonight clerking Delaney. I'm sorry. Clerk

My last name is too much. I just Yeah. No. No. Clerk clerk Delaney, but my last name is Fisher Cascio.

That's right. Yeah. Alright. Madam clerk. And then we'd also have a substitution this evening. Councilor Scott had a a conflict, so we have councilor Link in place of him. Madam clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Yep. This is roll call. Councilor Hart? Here. Chair Klingen?

Present.

And subbing in for councilor Scott, councilor Link?

Here.

Alright. With that, we do have all members present. So we have

Alright. Great. And then just some housekeeping. If you could just read so items one and two are approval of minutes of the both of the previous committees. The one number one would be the approval of the minutes of the public utility public works committee meeting from 10/15/2025, and then I'm gonna take that up at the same time. Do we can yeah. We'll vote on both of these at the same time. And then number two, approval of the minutes of the open space environment energy committee meeting of 12/03/2025. Can you call a roll on approval of those minutes, please, madam clerk?

Yep. On approval of, the minutes items number one and two. Councilor Hart? Yes. Chair Klingen?

Yes.

Councilor Ling? Yes. Alright. That's all those in the affirmative.

Okay. So we have a light agenda. You know, I just don't like things to languish in the box too much, but there are a number of five items sent for discussion to this committee. Should be a fairly quick meeting. I've been asked to take a few items out of order.

We have, interim commissioner Weissman here, DBW commissioner Weissman, who's joining us to speak on these items. There is a memo attached and, you know, which is pretty much it it suffice to address these issues. But I thought, you know, in case if committee members have any questions, you know, it's always good just to the public knows when we send these to committee. And so, you know, for any of the members of the public who maybe live near the Warming Center, you know, the the board councilor, Ben Ewen Kempen, as well as the mayor, have met with members of the committee over there and heard their concerns. And so they're taking, you know, these concerns very seriously.

So councilor Ewen Kempen did put in a few orders. We're gonna take those up together all at once, and we'll have the commissioner interim commissioner Weissman here to speak on those. And, also, it looks like emergency management director, Bill Fisher, is here as well. I'm assuming on those, he's also been part of the team monitoring the warming center and and making sure that everything is going according to, everybody's needs and and and also making sure that we're not disrupting the neighborhood. So I'll just read quickly items five, six, and seven from councilor Ewan Campan that the commissioner number five, 260118, that the commissioner of public works install waste receptacles near the entrance of the warming center on Prescott Street.

Number six, which is item ID number 26Dash0119 by councilor Ewen Kempen that the commissioner of public works perform regular litter cleanups along Prescott Street near the warming center. And finally, item number seven, which is ID number 26Dash0120 by council Ewan Kempen that the administration investigate the possibility that deliveries, emergency vehicles, pickups, etcetera, occur in the Cummings school parking lot rather than on Prescott Street. As I mentioned, we do have a memo attached to the agenda this evening to two of those items, and it's pretty brief. I can read, and then we'll we'll we'll open it for discussion. But on item two six zero one one eight regarding the waste receptacles, the DPW has installed the trash barrel in front of the entrance to the warming center.

The barrel will be added to the collection route of the grounds division. And then item ending in 0119 about the regular litter cleanups. While the warming center is in operation, the grounds division will add Prescott Street to their parks and playground debris route at least once a week giving debris up I'm sorry. During debris operations, staff visit each park and collect debris and trash. The grounds division already services the lot adjacent to the warming center and will expand their activity to any accessible gutters and sidewalks.

Please note that the debris route will be suspended. When there is snow cover, any biohazards encountered will be forwarded to inspectional services. So we'll address those two quickly. So, obviously, we've had some snow cover, but just to kinda check-in since, these were added, I guess, two and a half weeks ago now or when they went into it. They were put on the regular council meeting agenda at the last council meeting.

Direct I'm sorry. DPW interim commissioner Weissman Have have they been able to get you know, there's been snow cover basically since that time. So any updates on Sounds like the the the waste receptacle, is it being is it being used, properly? You know? They they noticed a lot of litter because, you know, one of the things I always think about with regards to a lot of this stuff is and and I'm not saying it isn't the warming center.

It is the warming center. But I just have found in the last ten years or so, the the amount of rideshare vehicles and just that basically work out of their vehicles and and and sometimes, you know, when they can't find a nearby barrel, they just litter stuff onto our streets. So, you know, I'm just curious if there's any report back on, you know, the the litter, type of litter, like, you know, what what what the scene's like down there in Turkey. Yeah.

Thank you, chair. Eric Wiseman, interim director or sorry, interim, commissioner of Department of Public Works. Yeah. So we put a trash barrel last week that, that's right by the entrance. Just just to set the scene, there were already two big belly units within the tot lot, but this is, like, an additional unit.

And so our grounds division has a rotation through all the parks, playgrounds, throughout the city. So, they were already going by this spot but added this additional unit for as part of that collection and then just, inform them to expand the area because my understanding is that some of the complaints were not just directly, in front of the Cummings School or the warming center, but, along the along the street. So we've been somewhat preoccupied with snow recently, but I did go by today to see. I did see some like, it it appeared somebody had, like, put out a box of free stuff that had kind of spilled onto the sidewalk there, so I did direct them for an additional pickup there. I think, you know, like, debris in the parks tends to be seasonal, in nature.

The more people are in the parks, the more pickups that that are needed. But, yeah, this will be part of their route, and they will I'm sure I will hear if there are any unusual pickups that need to happen.

Excellent. Yeah. I mean, it's probably a little early, you know, to know really. Like like you said, we'll hear about it either through constituents, through the counselor, or whatnot. But sounds like so far so good. I'm gonna open it up to colleagues. Any questions or comments from committee members? Okay. So I saw, councilor Link's hand go up first, councilor Link, and then councilor Hart.

Through the chair, I just wanted to say, how much I appreciate, taking really quick action on this. I I'm actually in the kind of the neighborhood, so I I get to see how how well utilized, you know, just the other day I saw, you know, on the the this you know, that really cold day we had yesterday. People lined up outside ready to get in, and, you know, it's it's clearly something that we we really wanna have in the city. So, helping to make to ease the burden on on our neighbors is really important, so that they're not gonna fight this really great thing. So I just wanted to share my appreciation. Thank you very much.

For the share. Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you. I'll I'll echo that appreciation. Thank you so much from your work and and addressing this right away. I did wanna just ask for my own knowledge. When it's when you say that the the pickup is suspended during snow cover, I mean, is that how far after a snow event? I mean, the snow could be here for another who knows? I hate to guess how long. So I'm just curious how long that lasts.

Sure. Through the chair. I think what I was getting at was, like, we wouldn't be, like, shoveling the lot to to look for debris or something like that. It it's

debris that's observed will be picked up. Litter. You're talking about the litter.

The litter. We're still collecting trash throughout. We we recently had to remove snow to get to some barrels, but this is this is a year round thing. Both debris and trash collection pick up in the warmer weather as we see volumes go up. But, you know, because we don't do snow removal from the entire tot lot, we don't tend to sort of, like, tramp through the snow or something like that to look for debris. But if if there's debris as part as that is observed through the tours of duty, we'll collect it.

Thank you so much for clarifying. Appreciate it.

Sure. Sorry

if that was confusing. Okay. Alright. Excellent. So, yeah, so those two items, and then we're taking up the the third one as well, which I think emergency management director is probably here to to speak on a little bit As well, so just addressing item number seven, either one of you at the administration investigate the possibility of deliveries, emergency vehicles, pickups, etcetera, occur in the Cummings School parking lot rather than on Prescott Street.

This I get I'm coming at this as I didn't you know, I don't so were there have there been deliveries and pickups? Like, has there been activity on Prescott Street? And that's I'm I'm assuming that that's what the folks in the area are are responding to. So, I guess, kind of just an overall like, so so there have there been and has that changed to the parking lot, or are we able to do the parking lot? You could just speak to this, whoever wants to speak to it

first. With the chair, I I can take this one. So there was some, complaints from the residents. I went to the resident meeting with the mayor and councilor Ewan Campan. Had a great we had a great discussion with the residents around the learning center. And, you know, some of the issues we're we're aware of, but some of the issues were new to us. But the big thing for me was the context that we got by just talking directly with these folks. And so this particular item, because there's staff working at the center that parking on the street and then there's deliveries and that sort of thing. It was limiting the amount of access on the street for for residents, as you know, in in in Somerville, parking is a, you know, a limited commodity. So, you know, obviously, you know, the residents are are very proud to have this in their neighborhoods, but they don't wanna have these type of impacts if at a possible to mitigate.

And someone brought up the rear parking lot. Now that was not being used previously because it was being used to stage construction equipment. That has since changed, and we hadn't identified that that change had happened that we could make that switch. And so when they brought it up, we checked with Commissioner Wiseman, as well as some other departments. We found out that there were lots available to be used. And so we've made that transition with a couple caveats. So the staff is using the lot all the time now. So if we're parking for the staff, they're not parking on the street, they're using the lot. And that'll leave you with a lot of the parking. The part that it is gonna remain the same is drop offs and pickups.

I'm not gonna have them park way on the other side of the building just to run stuff in. They're they're literally there for two seconds. The other piece was in here, they put in emergency vehicles, and and that's I'm not going to delay emergency response to have them park in the parking lot, walk around the building. So that'll remain in front of the building. Hopefully, that's limited as well, but I don't want to delay emergency responders.

The final thing is not in here, but we did respond to the residents and let them know that if somebody has an accessibility parking permit, they'd still be able to allow them to park in front of the building because we want to make sure they have the direct, most accessible route into the building. But otherwise, the general staff is parking in the rear parking lot. But on top of that, we actually had someone reach out recently that said with all the snow and the people parking on the street, the parking was greatly reduced. I reached out to Commissioner Wiseman, who responded over there and removed the snow when we're able to get back to the constituent and, let them know the snow moved and that we're putting the people in the parking lot so they should have more parking development.

Great. Questions from callers or anything to add, Krishna? Nope.

I think for the chair. I think I think they'll covered it.

Alright. Anything from colleagues? Sounds like everybody's satisfied. Oh, liaison Radissi Radissi. Sorry.

Thank you, mister chair. For the record, Yasmeen Radissi, legislative liaison with IGA in the mayor's office. I just wanted to, thank, director Fisher and and commissioner Weisman for their collaboration on this as well as director, Carroll. We, as you mentioned, met with or the mayor's office in coordination with several departments met with residents in the area. So just wanted to reiterate our willingness to to keep in contact with residents as these issues come up and help come come up with responses to issues that they identify as direct to Butters to the warming center. So just wanted to add that and just say that we're here in case constituents have additional concerns that they may wanna raise.

Great. Yeah. Thank you. You know, I'll report back to counsel you and Campen. And if anybody is watching this now or anyway, one more member from the public, it looks like. Or if they watch this later, like you said, if they have follow ups, they can do so with counselor Yu and Kampen or the mayor's office. Great. Alright. So I think that's it for for you both. So you're free to go. Thank you for coming this evening. We really appreciate it. You know, it just adds obviously, a memo would have been suffice, but I really do think it's important, especially where this you know, the the neighbors have, you know, voiced their concerns, and I I appreciate you taking the time to come here this evening. So thank you.

Thank you, chair. Yep.

Alrighty. So we'll go back to the top of the order.

Chair Klingon, just to confirm, we wanna mark these items work complete,

or is there

Yes. Sorry. I'm set. Disposition is work complete. Great. Apologies. So then we're gonna go back to the order, business, which is item number three. And so one of the reasons why, you know, council Scott couldn't be here and and, councilor Link did have these have a couple items in, that, you know, may warrant a little bit of discussion. Also, I think there's a yeah. There'll be so there's there's some information to come out of these, items.

So I'm just gonna start with number three, from councilor Link that the director of public space and urban forestry developed a report on a standardized green score for public parks and identify appropriate benchmarks and expectations for publicly owned parkland. So I wanted to come here to be able to, like, you know, give any sort of, like, thoughts he had with regards to this order just in terms of, you know, what he I mean, it's pretty straightforward as to what you're looking for. But, basically, too, you know, we have various sort of working documents regarding green score and open space. And so I thought maybe we could just kind of come to some understanding of, you know, how we address your question and this answer and or if it's being addressed and or, you know, how we wanna move forward. And the other thing I the other thing I was thinking about is, like, you know, I just I recognize that we have a very active community out there that wants you know, certainly, we wanna any chance we can get add natural terrain, if you will, you know, dirt, trees, and stuff like that.

When we're redoing parks, oftentimes, a lot of our parks are sort of they they serve as playgrounds, and then there's so there's a lot of different competing priorities around, you know, making things accessible versus, you know, as far as ADA goes and that can take you know, making sure that there's something for everyone. And so how we sort of thread that needle around making sure that we're adding actual plant life and and and dirt is is an important, you know, thing that we need to really stay on on top of as we try to add, that to, you know, the the the the warming effect of being such a concrete heavy city. Now this is definitely, I know, a priority for all of us. So so let's start with that item number three. And I think oh, we have we do have somebody.

That's right. I'm sorry. Estella, you are here. My apologies. To kinda yeah. To speak on this, we'll kind of, John, did you wanna just kind of, like, give your you know, give some context to the to the order, though?

Chair, I think you actually did a pretty good job of of contextualizing it. I'm I'm I'm I'm happy with that introduction.

Well, like, what did like, so but this is your concern. Right? It's, like, making sure that when we add when we're doing parks that we're adding is there a certain percentage that

Yeah. I don't have a percentage in mind. I I think so, yeah, I I guess to fill out a little more, I'll just say, like, you know, there's I think there's there's kind of a couple concerns that that you brought up. One, like, we have so many parks. Maintenance can be a challenge, and, of course, we wanna build durable and maintainable, you know, parks.

But we also wanna make sure that that, you know, they they are actually green. You know, like, we have these, and I don't I I the intention was not to say, that we apply the green score criteria that we have for, you know, private development to, our parks because it wouldn't quite make sense. But, to develop our own green score for our own parks and our own public spaces, it wouldn't almost make sense. But that's adding, so I'm not gonna say that. And the I guess, and the other part is, of course, you know, like, looking at our making sure we're not we're not just focused on, like, the shiny new things that, like, you know, we're we've got some sort of way.

And I do know, and wanna acknowledge that we've got the, I forgot what the title of it is here. I've got it right here. But it'll be, like, the open space and recreation plan. I know we have that. So, you know, like, making sure that we're properly accounting and not just chasing the the the shiny new thing.

We've got some parks that definitely need, some TLC. And and I think, know, acknowledging kind of, what the chair said about, like, know, there's always competing interests. But we do know that, you know, like, for example, one of the big things is, like, heat island effects that we're talking about. But when we have, you know, pavers and the rubberized services, they all get very, very, very hot in the summer. So, you know, and especially if it's a new park, there's, generally speaking, no shade yet. Yeah. Problem.

And, you know, that's kinda, like, why I wanted to sort of, like, set up a conversation where and this may be for longer term, you know, offline or something, but but just to kinda, like, encapsulated in the like, we don't necessarily or maybe we do, but, you know and I think Estella was here to speak to this. Or I don't I haven't had a chance to speak to Luisa, who is the head of the of PSoF unit, but don't necessarily every park is a little different in the sense that we don't have, like, a formula that we use. So you do you'll see a park like Central Street, which is, like, you know, almost all natural materials and so on or even Chuck E. Harris Park has a lot of those the the plantings, like the low level you know, I don't what they're called, but, you know, the the the type of the plantings that are kind of on the hillside, like meadow style plantings and stuff like that. So, right, it's something that we we we do well.

But the question is is when we're, say, redoing a say, for instance, like, Kennedy Schoolyard. You know? This is right now, this is basically what we call, like, the old prison yard style, which is what I call it up at the Healy when we have that redone. You know, there's there's a a lot of attention being put on that Kennedy Square right now as to sort of, you know, accessibility and what what, you know, what we're getting what we're gonna have there. And but we know that it it's definitely gonna be an improvement from the the asphalt that's there. But the question is, like, what

yeah.

Like, what how are we making sure that we're we're having enough that heat heat island effect that we're addressing that properly. So, alright, that's all to say. That, that's just kinda to give you some background, Estella. So, Estella, do you wanna go ahead and introduce yourself, and, the floor is yours. No pressure. You know? Whatever. We're just we're just here to have a discussion on on on this issue as it is important to a lot of people in the community.

Of course. Thank you, chairman. And to introduce myself, my name is Estella Organet, and I am a senior public space planner with PISOF, public space and urban forestry, and serving as a proxy for director Oliveira while she's participating in a public meeting for Art Farm. So, yes, thank you for bringing this up, councilor Link. And just to give you all some context, the green score separate from this conversation, though, is just a sort of review metric by which our division requires all by right and large developments, to achieve a certain threshold of updates to their landscapes, to try and get them to be more permeable, to be more planted, etcetera.

And so our green score works to ensure that private owners and developers who previously weren't required to make updates, do make those renovations to their landscapes so that they're performing to the best of their abilities. And so our position is that the green score requirement would not be wholly applicable to the work. I mean, we kind of touched base a bit on this with the sort of different competing interests and different to compare each park to one another apples to apples. Right? Sometimes our our park and open space might need a a more, like, pervious, or or might need a more, passive recreation space while others based off of community, input and all of our parks and open spaces are vetted by the community, might want more sports courts, which are less permeable.

Right? So, the the tricky thing is how to apply a one size fits all metric onto parks and open spaces that are so broad across all of our communities. And just to give you an example, I think part of what we're trying to do constantly, in all of our new parks is making sure that we're putting up green feature educational signs when they exist, making sure that we have stormwater infrastructure to move all the water and grade it so that it's going into plant beds that are able to sort of percolate the water instead of having it go into our drainage systems as much as possible to the extent that we can. Right? And to also make sure that our parks and open spaces adhere to our pollinator action plan, and the plants that we select and where we locate them and all of the trees also are creating the shade that, have some immediate benefit, but we'll have that big shade benefit impact, in the future.

So this also sort of works in tandem with our design guidelines for public space and, as you mentioned, Kenserlink, to the OSRP, which has, sort of a lot of information, especially in appendices, that has those benchmarks as well as expectations, goals, action plans, especially the the priority renovation and upgrade, parks and open spaces. So once the funding is there, these are the spaces that, as you're, pointing to, councilor Link, are more permeable, but do require that the renovation. So as soon as we get the financing, and the community input, those are the the, parks and open spaces that we wanna prioritize. And I I think with all of the work that we've done within the last few years with the pollinator action plan, with the OSRP, you won't be seeing sort of full blacktop courts. But, again, the the implementation of a single metric to quantify or try and quantify the the amount of permeable space or plants planted just is very difficult and challenging for the the range of parks and open spaces within our city.

But just a question, Estella. Thank you for that, by the way. But, I mean, couldn't we establish, like, a a bare minimum percentage of any, you know, new park development? Like, can we establish some sort of guidelines so at least make sure that we're sort of you know, we're getting some natural plantings, native plant, what know, what whatever, you know, other than just materials. Yeah. And

and part of that, Cher, thank you, would be to or for us to understand what that threshold looks like. Again, similar to what we're talking about with the Kennedy School. Right? Like, that requires a lot more impermeable surfacing because of the play surfacing that's required because of the, actual needs of the community there. That's a pretty good example where we we have a lot of open space.

We're trying to fit all of these competing interests and programs. But I I do want to, stress that our division does have or is comprised of five landscape architects and, two arborists. So we're constantly trying to figure out where we can add as much green space, as much ground cover or trees as we can. So for for example, right, like, Kennedy School and Junction Park are are two sort of ends of that spectrum. Right?

Like, in Kennedy School, we were balanced to these sort of specific programs that make it such that the minimum planting threshold, if we set it, might not be met, right, because of the just area itself as opposed to a place like Junction that is much more passive in nature. We're able to plant significantly. We're able to have a lot of trees, a lot of ground cover, a lot of, permeable surfaces. So to set a minimum for the the wide range of needs is is really challenging to to accomplish.

Yeah. Well, there you know, something else to bring back. I I I know the word green score kinda throws us in one direction of thinking about, like you said, through zoning and and and and new developments. But but I I I think the spirit of this it's a good question conversation to have internally, I think, is to sort of you know, how do we establish? Like I said, maybe, you know, maybe it's a I don't wanna say, like, a bare minimum thing, meaning because if it like, based on if there isn't a lot of wiggle room around, you know, what we need to do, like you said, each park is specific, you know, has its own needs.

You know? But maybe we're trying to get in at least, know, a whole sort of, like, little wall of, like, planter with some with some things. But yeah. Colleagues, questions, comments, anything on this particular item? Console link.

Yes. Thank you, chair. Through the chair, so I just wanna say, first of all, thank you so much for coming, for for, being able to to speak to this item. And, I guess I wanna lead with this to just be clear that this was not, intended to be, like, in any way a criticism of of the great work that your department is doing. I'm only looking to make sure that we're continuing to, you know, push ourselves as as far as we can and to make sure that we're always doing the the best and and make sure that we, you know, we've got ways to look at things.

Towards that, you know, I I I guess as Cherclingen mentioned, I I I don't even know necessarily if we need even, like, a a bare minimum, but some sort of, like it would be nice if there was and and and I should, I guess, step back to say maybe this exists. Sorry. But, like, a rubric of some kind even to understand, like, how maybe even, like, a, you know, a a scorecard, you know, that so this this is what we've done. Like, these are the things like, this is where we've really excelled in this park and kind of understanding, like, how how, I guess, bringing to the surface how maybe the what the goal was of the park versus and, I guess, and how how well that was executed. You know, like, look at Junction Park, which I love.

It's a gorgeous, gorgeous park. And I look at Ken Kelly, which is also a gorgeous park, but also, like, has, like, a lot of, like, nonpermeable surface. Or, I mean, I I understand that the the pavers themselves are permeable, but I believe there's a lot of, like there's cement paths, which I'm sure are there for ADA reasons, or I'm almost sure. I'm assuming. But, like, it's a there's a lot of it there.

So, you know, like, understanding, like even just having, like, I guess, maybe it being as transparent as possible, not just for the city council, but for for our residents so they understand, like, alright. Well, you know, like, this is this is where it's not working well, but it's not working well because of this thing, I think would be would be helpful in having that, like, on record. But I also think that, going back a little bit, like, you know, like, I understand in our our open space recreation plan, like, you know, we've we've done you guys have done I mean, it's a it's a volume document, and there's been a lot of hard work done in there. The the range the date range, though, gives me, like, pause because I'm just like, oh, well, we've got, like this is I I think it's until, yeah, 2035, which is a full nine years from now. And there are some parks that you know, like, Kennedy, I think, is a is a you know, obviously, it's a high impact park.

But I look at also things like Perkins Park where, there's there's a it's in, like, the, you know, an environment and some justice neighborhood, and we I just I I had a a very long conversation with the constituent when I was doing my campaigning, and and we talked a lot about how how that park is a miss. And, obviously, no one here I don't think that anyone it's an old I think it's over 20 years old, I think, is what I saw. So I don't think anyone here is designed to that. But, you know, I wanna make sure that how I I guess I I'm unclear on how it's getting how these different parts are getting prioritized. I know that it's ranked highly as needing replacement, but I don't know if that means that I but I know Kennedy was actually ranked, I think, below it.

Obviously, I'm not saying we shouldn't do Kennedy. We should do Perkins. But what I am, curious about is just, like, where, you know, if we're focusing on just new parks and, you know you know, because Kim Kelly is a is a brand new park. Are are we focusing on on how are we prioritizing? I'm sorry. I'm rambling. How are we prioritizing? It's my question through the chair.

Alright. Well, before you guys first of all, John, I wanna say, you don't need to apologize. Like, when you put an order in like this, this is for this discussion. This is why, like, I see this order when you put it. I don't like you said, for all I know, we have already have this a standardized screen thing, and that's that's how we kind of, you know, figure these things out as these questions come up and we have these conversations publicly. So, yeah, it definitely sounds like we're have two things, two questions here, which one being and and, I guess, I would pose the question to Estella as do we have a parks master plan? See, I don't know what it's hard to know everything. There's a lot to know. Do we have a parks master plan? So, like, is there a you know?

And then to also you know? Sorry to step on your questions, John. But but, yeah, basically, I was hearing two different questions in there. One was, how do we like, do we have a parks master plan? And two, how how are we determining like, with the Ken Kelly Park, how would the public know how we came to the determination to not put more green stuff?

Yeah. And

If we could've, you know, if we could've put more reason, why didn't we?

Sure. And part of the that, Cherry, is, yes, we do have the Park's master plan, councilor Link referenced, is our OSRP open space and recreation plan. I am happy to send that to you all after this. And as councilor Link said, it is quite a hefty document. But towards the end of that document, on appendix c is where, we list the prioritization of parks, the as well as the sort of criteria that we use to sort of rank them.

So some of that includes the park condition itself, whether or not this adds open space acreage, whether or not this creates more nature as an experience. So all of the or almost all of the parks that are up for priority do that, and then, a potential for accessible amenities. So, like, in addition to other criteria. So they're quite a list of, things that we measure in order to prioritize each of these. And, similar to what you were saying, right, like the parks that we what we this is a ten year plan, or I believe it's a seven year plan.

But the it it's all funding dependent and impact. Impact. Right? So, Kennedy, that was a a huge opportunity to address a high impact park and open space. But a park like Perkins, yes, while it is it might have been a little bit older, it is still a priority part for us.

So as soon as, the funds are available, it's, going to be one of the the next in line. And, again, maybe the the question about that to your to context of the competing interests and is is making sure that all of that is being communicated as well to counseling Your your point about goals and not having a sort of one size fits all scenario is being explicit with the way that we do engagement and how we are communicating the goals per project. Right? And so making sure that we are benchmarking what each of the project needs are from the very beginning. And then, at the end, doing an analysis of are we are we meeting the goals that we set for from the beginning of the project.

Right? That might be a more, beneficial way to address whether or not we are meeting the expectations of the community as well as the, sort of constraints of the site, the inherent constraints of the site. And so I think that that's a a great sort of, happy medium to say the site, the community members want a lot, a lot, a lot of green space, and are we able to deliver on that?

Counselor Hart. Thank

you. This is really useful discussion. Thank you, everyone. And I just wanted to this is to kind of piggyback off of planner comments just now that maybe as a way like, I love the signage around the parks that say, like, what you know, like, that these are native plants or that this is a to catching rainwater, you know, that really helps do that education and also kind of explain the decisions in the park. And, I haven't seen the same for, like, accessibility, and I was just thinking that would be another great opportunity to raise awareness and visibility of of some of those decisions as well and thereby also educating folks using the park.

That's an awesome idea, counselor Hart. I I think we'd be very open to that as well. Any opportunity that we can to educate the public to make it to to educate them just to know that each decision that we make alongside our designers is a deliberate one. So as similar to what counselor Link was saying, right, like, things might look permeable, but they have a re or impermeable, but they have a reason. Right?

And that reason might be ADA, accessibility, inclusion aspects. So, yeah, I think we can do a lot better to, communicate all of the amazing features that each park has, and even do a lot more outward focusing communication. And I think with this new administration, we're very excited to see how we can, do that as well.

Great. Anything else from everybody? Okay. So I'll just say, you know, similar to what councilor Link said, like, you guys are all doing an amazing job signing parks. We have the best parks around. Yeah. This type of question is just more so that we can understand how you know?

Totally. Thank you, chairman. And I, counselor Link, I through the chat, didn't take it as a criticism at all. None of us did, I think. We're very excited to be on the agenda to talk about the work that we do always. So thank you all for having us.

Alright. Councilwoman, are you satisfied with the your work completing that? Yeah?

Yes. Yes. I am. Thank you.

Yep. So that leaves bring us to our final agenda item, item number four in the agenda, which is two six dash zero zero six seven that the administration explore the feasibility of a year with no swag as detailed within. Was the you Salani, do you have the madam clerk, do have the extended version of that resolution? But, anyway, while you're pulling that up, liaison Raddisi, I know we we I forget. We we spoke about this briefly.

You know, what does the administration wanna does do they have a statement to make on on this?

Thank you, mister chair. Yes. I am gonna be totally frank and say that I got to this item a little late. I, as you may know, have quite a workload on my plate. So I did reach out to the city clerk's financial analyst who can help with finance and an financial analysis for the city councilors.

So I've asked him to take a look at calculating some of the cost associations with, swag across departments. So he's currently working on that, and I can connect with counselor link offline to make sure that you get that information once it's been finalized. Other than that, I'm mostly here to listen and get a little little bit more context about the request. But, again, happy to follow-up on the data piece related to the cost impacts.

Yeah. No. Absolutely. I I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I I know that we had said that this, you know, we're this may not we may have to keep this one in committee depending on what ConsoleLink wants to do just as it may require some more data mining and digging and stuff like that. Yeah. Actually, I should open a ConsoleLink first just to kind of get his thought process around, you know, what what kinda what led him to this or what, you know, what the thinking is behind this order while the clerk's pulling up the extended version. Because I don't have it in front of me, and I know that it it's details a little bit about what specifically you're talking about.

Chair Klingon, sorry to interrupt. I am not seeing an attachment with this item.

Yeah. No. I think it's just yeah. Is it if you go in there, is it not in there?

Through the chair, if you hit the text tab, it should pull up the whole text of the item.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There we go.

Sorry. I totally misunderstood you. Here we go. Sorry, guys. Yeah.

So, yeah, the official text is that the administration excludes feasibility of a year with no swag in which city departments limit or eliminate the purchase of branded promotional items and report back to this council on potential cost savings, environmental impacts, and alternative ways to engage residents without single use or low value materials. So I'll I'll turn over to Constantin. You know, I I you know, this brings up certain thoughts. For me, you know, I'm sure we all have thoughts and opinions on it. Council Link, if you wanna just go ahead and, like, what's the what's the spirit of the order is about.

Yeah. Thank you, chair. So, I I think so, obviously, the idea would not be to eliminate all all swag, but rather to make sure we're looking at it and make sure we're finding like, we're the things that we are buying that were they have a value beyond the the like, some sort of draw into draw into, like, a table when someone's, you know, out there with their doing the different tabling events, I guess. So, you know, there's oftentimes, there's things that I that I look at, and I I see without naming names or or casting, like, judgment, but I like okay. I'm like, okay.

I I people aren't gonna keep that. That's gonna go into, like, a best case scenario, recycle bin, worst case scenario, trash can. And and just the volume of it sometimes can be maybe it it begs the question to me, especially in in a time where we're to maybe do more with less. If we can maybe just kind of look at what we're doing, and say, yeah. Maybe we're like, this is a good idea, and maybe we can eliminate these four things.

Still have, other ways of engaging. I think, like, a really great example that it at the MLK event, the the women's commission just had, like, Jenga on the table, and that actually brought people over. It looked to me just as much as, you know, the the little plastic bottle that was, you know, made of, like, the same material that you'd get over a regular, you know, bottle of water at the the grocery store. And so, yeah, that's the the the spirit of it is not to to say, like, let's just stop spending on all these branded things, but more about, like, you know, where can we reduce, where where does it make sense, and, are we sure that the things that we're getting are always the the best things? Is there something else?

Yeah. No. I get it. You just you're saying we we need to be we should try to be more intentional, more mindful about the type of things that we're getting because, you know, the yeah. It runs the gamut. Right? I mean, you're talking about, like, one of those clear plastic water bottles that, you know, someone may collect because they're free. They put it into the the mesh bag that's also free. You know, you go you make the rounds around the table, and then who know? You know, that might end up in the trash somewhere versus, you know, if you have a domestic violence, like, magnet that's gonna go on a fridge and actually has some user.

Actually, I was watching that show, The Pit, and they they had these pens. And it it's for when people are suspected to be in traffic inside the when you unscrew the pen, there's, an emergency number, you know, but you you wouldn't know it by looking at the pen. Anyway, so there's there's a lot you know, so this stuff can be really, tools and ways to engage people that are in, you know, unsafe situations. But yeah. No.

I I I hear you. Like, I I mean, I definitely I think for sure I always think about those, the the water bottles. You know? Unless they're like a a metal bottle, which we're not really giving those out for free in an event. But but outside of those, it's almost like, you know, what's are people really gonna hold on to this, or is this worth what we're you know, the money that we're putting out? But we definitely utilize a lot of these things as, you know, tools. So there are some uses for them outside of just being a little free thing to, you know, get get people over the tables. But that makes sense to me. I don't know. Counselor Hart, you have anything on this particular one?

I think this is more just like a comp you know, something for the administration to consider, you know, through department wide, you know, administration wide. Just take a a look at what we're what we're do you know, what we're the things that each department is using. I mean, I know RSJ, they I mean, they they probably had a pretty hefty budget on. They have a lot of materials. I'm not like, again, not criticizing or or calling any particular one out, but I'm just saying what as one consult, I've I've noticed that you know?

And there's probably reasons behind that. Like, I'm not you know, like like, some maybe somebody from it's completely part of a strategy. And that's all we really need. And that's if that's the case, that's all we really need to hear. But at least then we know settle it to the park thing, that we know that there's thought behind this. Council Hart.

Thank you, chair. And through you to counselor Link, I just wanted to appreciate you for bringing this up. And just to to you, chair, and to everyone, I'm I'm supportive of this idea. And and like counselor Link mentioned, we're in you know, entering into a much more constrained financial situation, and, definitely, we're in a constrained environmental situation. And, you know, should you know, just so I like the idea of just being very intentional with these things. That'd be great.

Well, I mean, one thing off the top of my head is just, like, anything that ever had said any hopefully, we we haven't we've never really made many things that have, like, the mayor's name on them because, I mean, you can then you can totally see those going straight out the window, you know, when we have an administration change. So but, yeah, you so you you get it. Right? It is our Radhasi, kinda what what we're what we're going for here. As far as, like, bringing back any you know, sounds like the financial analyst is working on pullback of this kind of potential cost savings.

Yeah. That's a big it's a big job there, John, what you're asking there. It's it's a lot of you that yeah. That's somebody's that's like a little side six month project, probably. So you may need to, you know, put something else in.

We may need to, like, just work complete this. And, actually, we could just we could we can keep this running committee and just kind of I'll touch base with the administration, you know, like, a few months down the road and see if this is some so, I mean, do you want you all plan on sort of I mean, as deep a dive as you can go with whatever bandwidth and, you know, people you have on hand.

Through the chair. Oh, yes. So the financial analyst actually did a pretty good job given the, like, day and a half's notice that I gave him, but still need to do, like, a thorough review and would probably need to loop in, several departments to go more in-depth over what kind of materials they put out, and then as well, determining what would be considered, like, a single user low value material. As you know, we recently hired a new director of sustainability environment. So they're still getting up to speed on everything, so we'd probably wanna loop them in into any conversations on this. So just not quite ready to share anything yet, but happy to be here and listen. And once I get those more finalized numbers from the financial analyst, happy to relay those as well.

Counselor Link? Thank you, chair

I do wanna say just, you know, we don't I don't necessarily the intention wasn't necessarily for this to be, extremely granular, because, obviously, I don't wanna give as as the chair, mentioned, it could be a, you know, a pretty large project. But I do think that, you know, the you know, having a a general sense of things and having and just requesting that the the administration maybe offer even just guidance around, like, around these things could would be, would be in the spirit, I think, of of what the my agenda item was there.

Oh, yeah. It's an easy fix. And probably, if we start a moratorium right now and just have every, you know, type of order like this go through, you know, the new director of sustainability. You know? So we could definitely we could definitely pinch it off now. I all I meant, John, just for the public watching, Council Link, is that it just depends on how these have been put in. So, like, if it's not, like you know? Because, you know, with with when it comes to the city, like, it might in terms of just looking at this an office's overall budget, it's probably, like, not obvious, like, what was, you know, spent. So they'd have to go through receipts. You know?

But I think this is a great conversation. Like I said, in terms of going forward, it's really probably easily fixable. It's, like, you know, if the mayor says we'll put a moratorium on swag, Well, no. We're we're gonna do swag, but, like, you know, we wanna kind of just run it through whatever. But yeah.

So there's definitely a lot of good that could come out of this and just in terms of being more mindful and intentional around, you know, what what what we're ordering and stuff like that. So, certainly, it's a definite the yeah. Something good going forward for sure. So you can take all this back to the the mayor's office, liaison, And I will leave this one in committee. Just you know, I'll keep it in the box, and we'll we'll touch base, whatever, like, down the road because I do think it's it's one that we should keep our eye on.

So yeah. Alright. Anything else from anybody on the committee? Alright. Well, just done just before seven. It's a little longer than I expected, but what time is the meeting going to?

I think it goes until four for four more minutes, chair.

Oh, really? So it's just six to seven?

I believe so. Yeah.

I figured it would be an hour and half one. Alright. Well, anyway, so we're gonna keep that one in committee, madam clerk. Everything else will be work complete, and then counselor Hart moves to adjourn. If you could call the role for adjournment.

Alright. On adjournment, counselor Hart. Yes. Chair Klingen. Yes. Counselor Link.

Yes.

Alright. With that, it is 06:58, and we are adjourned.

Alright. Thank you. Everybody good, man.