Economic Development Commission - Regular Meeting

So, Mona, the first question was, has zoning posted the comments?

And then the second question you had was... Did they inquire? Because we had asked if they were going to inquire with EDC before the public meeting.

Right.

And he said he was going to follow up with you.

Right. And like I said, I think the only outreach was Craig Bonatti just alerting all the boards and commissions of the special meeting on the 15th. So I think the answer is going to be we're going to go to the 15th, and I'm going to raise the questions there. Next item on our agenda is our economic development analyst, Anthony Crossman, who I want to give best wishes to in his new job. Anthony has done an exemplary job while he was with us, and we understand that Him taking a full-time position is more in his interest than working a part-time position. So best wishes. And I did want to touch on criteria for recruiting a new ED analyst. And we have two schools of thought. One school of thought is an undergraduate student. And the other school of thought is somebody who is at the senior end of a career, either, you know, maybe a stay-at-home parent or a retiree. And the question would be, how do we find the right person and get that out there? So I don't know if anybody has any thoughts.

I think the HR person here will give you good insight because I don't even know what's legal in terms of what you can do.

For us to do or not do. Okay, so.

Or maybe worth asking Dale Krupa about.

Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah, listing it on River Cod site.

Yes. I definitely think that. to hire a new analyst would be in the EDC's favor. Yeah.

Are we going to get an update from Anthony today? Just sort of like what everything from day one?

Yeah, we just went through kind of a debrief. I had Anthony come an hour early. So I've got notes on a debrief that I did with Anthony.

And so I'll also send my email to all the commissioners, the updated database, as well as I sort of put together like an exit document for what I've done and then what the next analyst should do or where to pick up. So I think that would be helpful. That's great, Anthony.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Very professional young man. All right.

Yeah, I would appreciate that. I think it would be worthwhile for us to know what the town has spent money on and what's come from it as a whole commission. I would have loved to have been a part of that debrief. I think it's important for us to know what's going on.

Yeah, and I think Dale mentioned this, that it's worth, I guess, looking at that and discussing that progress in terms of talking about budget next year or when you hire a new analyst, how you expect to pay them and how beneficial they can be if there's sort of proof is in the pudding.

Well, I personally, and I'm going to put this out on the record in the recording, I have been against us hiring analysts An analyst and right now I have to say I'm extremely frustrated that I am not privy to like what happened, you know, I love, I thought we were going to get a debrief. All of us as commissioners, I think that it would have been worthwhile for us to know what's been done and how it can benefit us. So it's hard to say that we even need another person if I don't even know what you've been able to accomplish over the last eight weeks. Well, it hasn't been eight weeks, six weeks.

The work product is the spreadsheet, Mona, which you have a copy of by email from Anthony. You will shortly. So I would say that's the best assessment tool to see what's in there.

And then I think from that database, what's most next important steps is sort of a business visitation program. And I think where an analyst can help is sort of putting together Sort of a prioritized list, like people to reach out to and why, based on how much they pay in taxes or how many employees they have, and even coordinate with commissioners' schedules in terms of actually getting to the job site or the business site. And I think that's all work that an analyst can do, in addition to other research and development activity that's sort of outside of these meetings or the time that commissioners have. independently.

Would you say though, because I mean, as volunteer commissioners, I think part of becoming a part of a team here in the town and volunteering, if people had that time to do it as a volunteer, would that be something that you think would be feasible?

Yes, but it always comes down to sort of incentives and it's very easy, I think, to be excited about what the Economic Development Commission can do, but then it's hard to follow through over months when, you know, it feels like progress is slow and things like that. And so I think, you know, paying someone to do that changes sort of incentive and sort of gives a new accountability to, you know, those projects. And so I think both are true in different ways.

And so you're going to email that out to us? Yes.

Okay. Okay, our next agenda item is community resource management, which is Dale Krupp's company, to provide direction for future work. And I don't know, I wish we had the remainder of our commissioners with us. I will volunteer just to try to get some discussion going on this. I'll volunteer that I think business visitation, probably the number one thing that would be beneficial because it'll start educating us about our existing businesses. And secondly, I think grant funding. And I know Cheryl has made me aware that there's been some success with grant funding in the town, but I don't see it as an area of particular success. And I don't know how that might help some of our existing businesses.

Well, we haven't gone for grants as the EDC.

No, not as the EDC. I'm saying town, townwide.

Right.

I was not aware of any grant funding that had been gained by the town.

Well, right now there's a grant for the Halls Road sidewalks.

And there's one with inland, not inland wetlands, Harbor Masters for a dock. But I don't, I think I'm not really sure where you would want to use this money for a grant, but I think if anything, it would be like maybe for the signage, which we're not even at a place where we know where we're at for that. So I feel like we're just putting carts before horses. No, no, no.

What I'm looking at is to set up the structure to have a funding engine of sorts, because, you know, let's say signage is an excellent example, but converse to that, um, We visit businesses. Dale gave the story, which Anthony reminded me of, of an industrial that couldn't use a higher boom crane because there were electric wires that were a hazard and limited their ability to operate their business. They tried to get the electric utility to move those wires. Forget it. The utility would come back to them and say, oh, we'll happily move them. Give us $2 million and we'll be happy to move it for you. Whereas if the town... can somehow vector the utility into moving them as part of another effort maybe. Now you've done something significant, which happened in that case. The town was able to eliminate that impediment to the business. So I'm looking at business visitation as one channel and grant funding, setting up the architecture for EDC to have an awareness of how to go about securing grant funding. And what are the funding engines that are available? That's the two things that I, you know, what else does anybody have that you think we might want to take from Dale's repertoire of expertise and take to turn into next steps? Because he's looking for us to give him guidance now.

I think that I still have, I would like to know everything that Anthony has worked on. And I thought, I guess I just, I thought we were going to be doing more of that discussion this evening. So I'm unprepared to answer that question.

Scott, anything you can think of?

Well, I mean, what you were just talking about, you're going to ask him to look into grants, like to research grants?

To look at, you know, for economic development, what are the major options to try to secure grant funding? And secondly, you know, what is the mechanics of doing so? That's the two things that I was going to.

I mean, yeah, it should be able to find a lot of that information from the state, economic development people.

I think, too, I would support what Mona said. We have five initiatives. So I think to take, again, the wayfinding signs, decide, okay, this is a project of ours. Now let's go look for the kind of grants that support signage. I know back when there was ARPA funding for the town. I was on that ARPA committee, and I was very interested in creating a facade grant for small businesses so that if a business wanted to paint their outside and plant some bushes and beautify their property, I was particularly thinking of the Shoreline Gateway that we could create. I mean, there was a lot of money, so we could have created that kind of giving a grant to businesses to do that. And then that was met with, well, there needs to be a master plan for the Shoreline Gateway. So that's putting the cart before the horse. And now, you know, here we are six years later.

No, nothing.

Nothing. And those people could have, you know, brightened up their properties a little bit.

But they were able to get money. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You were able to get the word out about that, and that was good. And I don't know about a lot, but the ones who did apply got some money. So whatever they did with it, that's.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it wasn't a total loss. But I guess my point being, you know, identifying projects that are important to our commission that we've already identified in the strategic plan. and then looking for grants based on that.

Specific to our strategic objectives. I think that's exactly what we ought to be doing. Okay. Next item on your agenda is the Housing Strategic Planning Committee, EDC Volunteer to Join Committee. The first select woman, Martha, had sent an email to me asking that we put on our agenda to discuss can we support a volunteer joining the housing committee. I'm already doing the Shoreline Gateway Committee, so I'm committed out. So I don't know if anybody else is interested and available to do that. So I'll put that out there.

Do you know when their meetings are? Let me see if they have a set time.

Take a look. I'll get it while you talk.

Okay. Howard Margulies is leading the housing effort. And I've taken the position that EDC's main focus right now is to abide by our strategic objectives, our strategic plan, if you will. And in particular, which we've had Anthony working on this database, to work on, not in eliminating, but shall we say filling commercial vacancies in town. We have too many commercial vacancies and I'm just advocating that that should be the priority number one of our commission, but housing is also important. I get that.

I would say we want to support the businesses and their realtors in filling vacancies. It's not our job to fill vacancies.

Yeah. And I think we already talked about this last month.

I'm looking at it differently. I'm looking at what industries can we bring to the town? Because, you know, the realtors put it out there and say, OK, here's space for rent. And it goes out to the great wide world and nobody responds. You know, they've got vacant spaces. And as I've already mentioned, you know, I've had public People come to me now saying that I'm on target for my comment about follow the money. You know, electric boat just got $70 billion, would it be, worth of contracts. What can we do to participate in that supply chain? And that's how I see as realistically we can fill some of our commercial vacancies.

I think we need to see what commercial vacancies we have.

Which is what we're doing.

Because it...

Yes, understood. Understood. But we have a light industrial area, which thus far, the biggest thing going there is a failed housing project.

That's not true. There are strong businesses in the light industrial zone. Kellogg Marine, Callaway. I agree.

But what... I don't know, Anthony, do you have any metric as to what is the magnitude of vacancy in the light industrial area?

Well, it's hard to say because there's so many multi-unit buildings. And so it's kind of square footage issues as opposed to there's just nobody in a building.

There was one building in particular that we visited where they had, you know, for lease for rent and vacancy. And it was a collage of vacancy and for rent signs. That's in Vista Drive.

I believe so.

That was the south of the highway.

It's Strategies Consulting is sort of the main tenant there.

Oh, yeah. Okay. And Amtrak is in there, and there's another business in there now, I think.

But the reality is we're going to get the information, and I'm just proposing that this is one way that we can solve it. I don't think that relying on the property owners and the realtors alone, it's not yielding as much. shall we say, contribution to filling these spaces as could be.

Can I just say, if somebody owns a building, the majority of the tax that they're going to pay is on that property tax. The residual tax for the inventory of their desks and their computers is nominal. So we're still, even if they have that building empty, that's their choice. We're still collecting those taxes. So yeah, it's a bummer if they're not providing business opportunities for our people here. But when we are working as economic development, we need to be focused on supporting our existing businesses. How can we continue to make it an exciting place for people to live and work? And we don't have a ton of commercial. We're talking 4% of our total tax base. And even if those buildings are empty, They're still paying the taxes. They're still 4% of our tax base. I understand. I hear your ideas, Joe. I know your direction that you would love to fill them. But we're not real estate agents. We're not business developers. We're economic development as a whole for the town. I hear what you're saying. That's why we've invited realtors in to come and talk to us. And we were doing the SWOT analysis. And I thought that the SWOT was really going to help us to get a better idea. This is what I thought. This was what was going on in my head a couple of years ago. If we did the whole SWOT analysis and we knew the benefits and the drawbacks of certain different areas, and then there would be some kind of something on our website that that would show the different districts and kind of have a snapshot for people looking to invest in Old Lyme. I thought that's what we were moving towards somewhere between then and now. I don't know what happened. Now we're talking about signs pointing to different districts, but we never did what I thought we were working on, which is already on Explore Old Lyme. And it's already there. We should just have it over in EDC and then be using that as a marketing tool because it's already there. The pluses and the minuses and the different business areas.

And so two answers. One is one of my tasks for this fall is the new business guide. And that's about 10 hours from completion. It's almost there. And it talks about reasons to come to Obine. including things like our bond rating as a town, like there's a lot of reasons people should invest or bring business to Old Lyme. So hopefully by next meeting, I can email everyone out a draft of that. The other thing I would say is that between the database being completed, which includes current vacancies or if there are vacancies, And I'll tell you that a lot of our knowledge on that comes from the tax assessor, not the tax assessor. Yeah, the assessor who knows who, you know, who is or isn't paying for computers in a suite or whatever. So she has a sense of vacancies. I think between the database and the visitation, the business visitations, we will have a sense of do we need to help this business owner push through, buy new industry for them. Because we don't know until we talk to a property owner, Joe, what their plan is. They may be sitting on a property thinking, I'm waiting to see what the zoning regs change to. Maybe I'll be able to put multifamily housing in here. We don't know why they have vacancies or why their vacancies are sitting there. So I think until we start listening to these larger companies and understanding what they want to do with their properties, then you'll have a sense of, okay, this is a great property to entice a supplier to EB to build or to approach the realtor to build. Or we talk to the realtor and we give them information to support

um than pursuing different industries or companies or hopefully we find out that somebody wants to come and then we talk to zoning and be like hey help this person to get in so they don't have to wait six months to a year to get in for this space yeah i mean i think if somebody's sitting on a building they

and they don't really want to pursue getting anybody in there, as Mona says, they're still paying the taxes, right? If they don't really want our help, then the best thing we could do is, like, you know, I was looking through this database. Thank you, Anthony, for that. And, you know, like one of the tasks that we have in our third thing is to get this out, you know, on the website, which is something that I can do. So that if people are looking at what's property available, we put it out there. But if the business owner doesn't want to do it, So be it, you know. But if they want to try to get space, then maybe we can help them through the zoning issues and permits and that kind of thing. Or a new analyst helps, whatever. You know, in a larger community that, you know, I've worked in, you know, obviously they have EDC staff. But the EDC staff will go out and promote all that stuff.

And try to get the business in. I personally think that sort of the commercial vacancy idea is a bit big for the work that the EDC can do. And like Mona said, you know, you guys aren't brokers and real estate agents and things of that nature. But I keep thinking about, you know, things like Kellogg moving into the Sennheiser building and there are risks and issues that they certainly have that if they spoke to you guys, there's, you know, things that you can do, whether it to be ease friction with permits or, um, there's, there's gotta be something that's easier.

That's not a database or notes or whatever we could do to advocate for an existing business. You know, we ought to be doing, I mean, I totally get that. You know, I'm, I'm just looking at, and, you know, Mal and Scott to your point about, that property owners pay in property taxes. But if a business is in there, there's also the amplification of the fact that they've got employees who ideally will live in town. And that's also part of what I want to see as an economic boost to the town. So that's my whole reason for being so concerned about filling vacant space. And even our town is, what, 56% undeveloped? I'm not saying I want to turn us into a giant industrial park. But I think there is room to accommodate businesses that could eat away at this 94% of the taxes in town being on the backs of the property owners. We talk about affordable housing.

But if you listen to the people in town and the people on zoning, they will disagree with you. And I don't know where you got that statistic of 56% undeveloped. Can you tell me what the source of it is?

56% of the town is woods, to the best of my knowledge.

But a lot of it is... protected space.

No, no, understood. But the point is there's still, you know, out of that, there's going to be some magnitude of space that could be populated.

Well, there's definitely opportunities within our commercial zones for sure. So, I mean, and this is where the conversation gets, you know, to a whole new level. Like, can we just focus on our commercial zones? Let's just focus on the commercial zones that we've got. And we've got new things that are going to be coming in, obviously on Halls Road and We've got two new major sales. Two major properties are going to be changing. So since our last meeting, the Halls Road Business Shopping Center has sold. That's big news since our last meeting. And from what we understand, it's a business from New York. So, and I know you've always had a particular interest in that. Plaza there, maybe Joe, you can connect to this new person and find out what they're going to be doing. Like, that would be really great.

Excuse me, Jen, make note that Trent has arrived, which gives us a call. But no, I, you know, I guess the best thing is we stick to our strategic plan objectives. And, you know, that's our roadmap, if you will.

I think there's nothing easier than a warm welcome. Hi, I'm Joe. From EDC. And if you don't want to do it, I'll do it. I'll call them up.

I visited a business yesterday. Okay. So we're starting to get the ball rolling.

Yeah, I think that's really good, though. Very practical in terms of it's simple and it does get the ball rolling. It introduces...

I'm not talking about a business. It's like they bought the whole building.

Oh, no, no, no. I know. But should we pay a call to the new owner? I think yes. The owner of the marketplace, on the other hand, who met with the board of select persons and my co-chair, Jeff, met also. And now we have the media team. you know, doing freedom of information because they're concerned of, you know, non-transparent discussions and such.

Well, that is not about the EDC. That's the EDC's role. That's another commission.

The point is that, you know, we need to transparently be available and, you know, meet with our businesses and make inquiries. I'm just reacting to the fact that no matter what to do, it seems to have concerns with transparency, that's all. Mona, to your question, the housing committee meets, it's supposed to be the fourth Thursday of the month at 9 a.m., however, they canceled their most recent meeting because they couldn't raise a quorum, and Howard rescheduled for tomorrow, September 3rd at 9 a.m. So that'll be the first meeting if you're interested to take on that challenge.

I already have a meeting scheduled. I can't make it tomorrow. Okay. I would go.

All right. If it's the first time.

If we found somebody.

It's the fourth Thursday of the month, whatever. Okay.

Maybe Trent's interested.

I can't do it morning.

Well, we could always get these. We could always watch it later. Yeah.

So, Trent, we had discussed approval of the minutes. We did not have a quorum. Your arrival has given us a quorum. Cheryl had moved to approve the minutes. I think Mona had seconded. There was... And no discussion unless there's anything that you have. Can we then vote to approve the minutes? Aye.

Aye. Aye.

One abstention. Scott abstains. Everybody else is an aye. So the motion carries. Okay. Okay. Strategic plan progress is our next agenda item. Promotion and marketing is Cheryl and Wendy. Cheryl, it's all on you.

Okay, so like I said, I've been working on the new business guide. I don't know if that actually falls under number one or number...

It's kind of a number one and a number three, yes.

Happy, happy. Tell me more about this business guide. Do we have one? So this is something that Advanced CT had done in 2021, and I was never happy with it. I think they had an intern do it, and so... It's been on the back burner for quite a while to rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.

Just for Old Lime?

Yes, just for Old Lime. So it's something that we can put the PDF on the town website. And it covers a variety of things, including business data. Let's pull up my latest draft.

And you've been working on this on the side? Yeah. Yeah, it's part of this.

Why businesses choose Old Lyme, Old Lyme and New Clance, municipal finances, our economy, our largest industries, which are local government, opportunities, the business districts, tourism dollars, the place employees will want to live, and then how to get started, business resources.

business land use. Yeah.

So that's underway. Okay. That's very, very significant.

Yes, it is significant. I'll feel very good when that's done. And then I had shown you all some photos from the professional, professional photographer or July. And we're going to wrap that up in early October with some of the, you know, business week type businesses. So that's in process to wrap that up. That was ARPA money. That's not part of our annual budget. I've been working with the Arts District. They are going to be working on an economic impact report to both the EDC and I think the Board of Selectmen on number of visitors they bring here and the money they bring to Old Lyme. That should be done, I think in October. And then I hope in November, I can share with you an initiative. They are in the early stages of, I can't really speak to, but it's something where they're working on bringing Old Lyme a little more publicity in the arts and culture arena. So that's of interest. And those are the highlights right now. The website's going along. I need to sit down and spend some time on that. Those are the big ones.

Okay, thank you very much for a considerable volume of work. Welcome.

Does the Roger Torrey Peterson Estuary Center. It's not part of the Arts District, so are they kind of collaborating together?

They are part of that partnership. They're part of Midsummer Festival. They all meet in different ways. They meet as an Arts District, and so because they're part of the Midsummer Festival, and they also have cultural offerings, so they're not, well, they have Roger Torrey Peterson's drawings inside that building. You can actually go and walk around inside and see some of his artwork, his own artwork that went into his bird books. But also they have cultural activities on the grounds. So they meet as an arts district to talk about things they're going to do. But then also they meet with, I think like every other month, They include a number of organizations that are not, they call it a nonprofit leadership group. And so they meet all the executive directors of various large nonprofits in the area. They just meet and they talk about how do you handle, I don't know, grant writing or how do you handle this or that. And so that's a very valuable way that they all work together as well.

Just for Old Lyme or for like... No, they have a community music school in it.

I think the YMCA. Yeah. And then, you know, most of the non-profits here as well. The ones that are staffed, you know, like the Historical Society, for instance, is all volunteer, so they are not involved.

That's great. Awesome. Okay, our next strategic plan objective is branded signage and wayfinding. Well, Jeff and Eileen are not here, so we'll hold that one for our next meeting. Business resource, Cheryl's already kind of given the most major component of that. It was the business guide. Anything else you guys want to volunteer on your business resource?

I don't really have anything to report, but, you know, after looking at the database, I think that could be a really good thing we can put up there on the website. It's just going to have to keep, I mean, we're going to have to update it.

Okay.

And then I've had discussions with some of the commercial, like, LoopNet people, like, to try to embed some of their stuff because they keep, you know, they put all commercial businesses up. So... that they're just one provider, but they'll put up, you know, whoever's marketing any kind of commercial business.

Do you have to purchase a contract with them?

That's what I'm trying to work out with them, being that we're considered a nonprofit. So it's really marketing for them.

Yeah, for sure.

Because they're making commissions on the sales. Which is all right. You do have code that you can invest in.

The way I look at it is, you know, everything has to be profitable. Frankly, even nonprofits, I think, should be operated profitably, but then to recirculate that profit. Otherwise, it comes unglued. So it's good.

Well, it certainly helps us when we do not have a real estate agent on the commission like we've had in the past. Because that was the information we get on a monthly basis from a realtor. But we haven't had a realtor in a long time. Do you know, is there any updates recently that we should be aware of for property for sale?

I know of.

Because a lot of stuff is sold. You know, that was for sale.

Right. 83 Hartford Avenue sold. It used to be a pizza shop. It's still going to be a pizza shop, but it's been bought out by like a corporate pizza place. So that's.

83 Halls Road is... Oh, so Hartford Avenue. I'm sorry.

That was July 28th. Yeah. I can't remember those.

The guy that came in to talk to us, his pizza thing went out, right?

Oh, it was... He declared bankruptcy for that venture.

Well, there's an update. He was excited to see how many people looked at his social media post about that. So they are now back on and they're digging up the park you want today. It's back on.

83 Hartford Avenue. Let's see what that is. Would that be closer?

I think it's...

It was previously Ainsley's Restaurant and Pizza.

Okay, that's Epic Pizza. Is it 83 Shore Road?

Maybe it's 83 Shore Road. Shore Road, yeah. Same place?

He's in the former... Ainsley.

But that's an awfully low number for Shore Road. Yeah, it was Pizza Plus before.

And then Ainsley tried to open, but it was in the pandemic. It was like 2020 when she tried to open. So 83, just to clarify, Anthony, 83 Shore Road or 83 Hartford Avenue?

Hold on, give me a second. Yeah.

83 Hartford Avenue is that snack shack.

Sorry, I misspoke. So it's Ainsley. It previously was Ainsley's Restaurant. It's 284 Shore Road. Yes. And it got bought by Epic Real Estate.

Yeah, it's okay.

That's the same.

Yep.

Is there anything on 83 Hartford Avenue going on?

That's the Citizens Bank building.

Park Third Avenue, 83. This woman was there one year. Yes.

We did an opening for her. Some sort of surface shack. It might be abandoned now. Cameron King recently purchased it and they're also the owner of Angry Goose.

Do you have a date on that purchase?

It was sold July 28, 2026. Okay. For how much does it say? I can't remember. It's probably saying it's online line. Let's see, Cameron. Excellent. They bought the building? The real estate? It was purchased for $325,000.

Remember it was on the market for like $500,000 at one point?

That was a few years ago. Okay.

Okay, great. Interesting. Recent sale. That's great.

All right. Our next strategic plan element is economic development and the land use process, which is Mona and Madeline. Mona, anything to report there?

Just that the next meeting is coming up September 15th, and just other things that I talked about earlier, asking if they had reached out to you or posted our statement before then. They do not have a regularly scheduled meeting in August, but I did go through. There were some meetings. I did go through the minutes, but it's nothing that we haven't talked about before.

Okay. Commercial district support is me. I am working on resurrecting a project that I proposed years ago called the Connecticut Riverway Trail. It's a combined Greenway-Blueway trail along the Connecticut Riverfront from north of the Baldwin Bridge to the Smith Neck boat launch, the Great Island boat launch. I have met with the engineer designing the railroad bridge for Amtrak, who is also going to be doing the restoration of the surrounding property after the bridge, the new bridge is built and the old bridge is demolished. So they are very intimate with the shoreline area in that segment of our waterfront. Additionally, I met with Black Hall Marina and Paddle Sports to get their input on the proposed trail, and they were very, very supportive and are interested to help as this gets more serious. My next steps are I'm going to coordinate, try and get a meeting with the, there's multiple divisions of DEEP that are interested in this. So I'm going to coordinate to meet with the three separate entities of DEEP and also the DOT, Department of Transportation, and ultimately Amtrak I would like to meet with and see how I can start pulling all of this into a viable project, including funding. So that's my commercial district support outreach list.

So commercial district is about the shoreline gateway?

Well, as far as the shoreline gateway, our primary input has been to zoning, speaking to, I'm looking at commercial district townwide. That's my feelings. But as far as Shoreline Gateway, our biggest challenge was providing input to zoning where the state mandate, as would be interpreted for Hartford Avenue, is quite contrary to the Soundview Design District. So the concerns were raised there that, for example, I believe the part of the housing mandate by the state, mixed use as well as others, allowed for something like nine units in a single building and Soundview Design District limits it to six units per building. So that was one major point. There were other less consequential points that were raised. So that information was submitted to zoning and we will see again if that gets posted as a submission to them. Other than the... the sewer project is underway now in a rather very real construction project. I think that is going to still raise a lot of question, will Soundview get sewered or not? Much of the commercial vacancies at Soundview, and this is just statement of fact, it's not just an opinion for me, any property owner that's there is unwilling to invest in a septic system that if sewers come, they will have to connect to sewer and abandon and then pay further money to abandon a septic system. And that has really, I think, stymied any progress of any of the buildings on Hartford Avenue other than small residential buildings that are existing.

Hasn't it already been decided Hartford Avenue is not getting sewers?

Well, the town voted against it. And I don't know what's happening right now with DEEP because they've mandated sewers. So I'm not familiar what is going to be the outcome of that standoff, if you call it that.

So I'm just looking at Initiative 5, commercial district support, to ensure long-term viability of Old Lyme's commercial district support business and property owners' investment in Old Lyme. And there's three action items. So the commercial real estate market analysis, tracking quarterly vacancy rates. So we're working towards that. Support the reinvigoration of the shoreline gateway area. So that's like what you bring from that meeting. So it sounds like nothing's really getting done at those meetings.

No, what we've been looking at primarily is how to incentivize reinvestment in the abandoned properties. And Hartford Avenue, as I've said, is a stalemate at this point over this whole sewers or no sewers. And the other properties along Shore Road, again, it goes into the town doesn't own the properties. The property owners are doing what they're free to do under law. So Cherry Stones is effectively a warehouse building.

Well, we don't have to go through the properties one by one, but I just didn't know if there were any new updates from the Shoreline Gateway Committee.

We did not have a meeting in August, so I don't have anything new to report.

And then the third point is build actionable plans for key districts, including Halls Road and light industrial distribution. So I think that a key actionable item, in my opinion, would be reach out to this new business owner but i think what you're saying that issue that you were talking about i think the conversation in the other marketplace happened before the the sale went through but now we know the sale has gone through so there's a new owner that could be welcome to town am i correct that that's talking about marketplace or shopping center well because Joe said that he didn't want to get involved because of the conversation that was being FOIA, but I believe that conversation that was being FOIA, that was FOIA or whatever was before the sale had taken place. And now we're talking about a building that's actually already been sold. So it'd be good for us. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think it'd be good for us to know who's this new person and,

I don't know.

There's no reason for a business or potential business to not be able to reach out to economic development or vice versa before a sale to find out, you know, tell me the steps that I go through or, you know, whatever the case is, or to say, hey, I'm here now. I've purchased this building, can we talk about, I don't know what, water or something? I don't want to get into the issue, but the issue didn't have to do with economic development. So I think you're planning to talk to them. And I think on that last bullet, I think once zoning, the regs are complete, then it makes sense to look at what our plans are for those areas. I need to go back to the conversation about the trail that you want to do. And you know how I feel about that trail. But I need to go on the record that I do not, you could say anything is good for the economy in Old Lyme. And so, you know, it's good for the Economic Development Commission. I do not see that project as a project that the Economic Development Commission should be involved in. I don't think you should be approaching DEEP or anyone else officially because there are other relationships that people in our municipality have with those organizations, including the First Select Women's Office, the Harbor Management Commission, and others. I don't think it's our place to be approaching them when there are already existing relationships that might be in negotiations or in the middle of a grant or something else that we're not aware of. I strongly believe that you need to bring that project to whatever commission or the selectman's office. It could be, I don't know who it should be, Harbor Management, perhaps, or Open Space, or a combination of the two, but you're talking about a project that involves private property and Amtrak, which are for select women, is constantly talking to about what they're going to do or not going to do, and I do not feel it has any place on the Economic Development Commission. And I'm sorry, I know you already know that I...

I know your feelings, but I mean, is this... You have extolled how wonderful the arts community is to tourism for the town, and that that's a big deal. Sure. What I am proposing would be maybe not of the same magnitude, maybe of greater magnitude.

I'm not talking about building a cultural theater. The Economic Development Commission has no business trying to build something like that because there are other commissions with those responsibilities, including harbor management, if we're talking about...

When I concepted this originally years ago, I had the full support of the Board of Sunakman and the Board of Finance. And I'm reawakening it. And I will bring it to the Board of Select Persons and get authorization if that's your concern, Cheryl. But I see it and I'm basically championing this because it is something that fits very, very well into the ethos of our town. I totally agree. We have natural beauty. The Connecticut River, the mouth of the Connecticut River is classified by the United Nations as one of the last unspoiled places in the world. And we have no access to it because we have a railroad that blew through in the 1850s and separated public access to a massive amount of our waterfront. And I'm looking to reclaim that. It's parallel to what Niantic did with the Niantic Boardwalk. And if you look at the participation of open public access for townspeople and visitors in Niantic, tremendous economic benefit.

I agree. Completely agree with you. It is a wonderful concept and a wonderful possibility for the town, and it is in the ethos of the town. It doesn't belong in the Economic Development Commission. You can go to the Board of Selectmen and ask them to appoint a committee to pursue it. That might be the approach, but it is not our place. to be talking to Deep and all these other players and making plans without the involvement of Harbor Management or Open Space or whoever deals with easements on people's properties. But Amtrak, it's not us.

Well, Amtrak provided the town of Eastline with the boardwalk project.

I'm not debating any of that. I'm debating it sitting in the Economic Development Commission.

All right. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I see it as a significant economic contribution to the town.

Of course it is. But it's not our job to build it. It's someone else's job to pursue all this. And it might be your job, but on another committee. Right. It's not the Economic Development Commission's job to pursue this. And I would wish that over the years when people have said to you, gosh, that's an open space thing. Gosh, that's an Harbor management thing. Terry Lewis sitting on this commission said, you're going across private property. That you have, it doesn't appear to me that you have reached out to these other commissions.

This is concepted to go through public property, almost exclusively public property.

Have you talked to Harbor management? No, I have not. So I am going to suggest you go to Martha and ask her how to pursue this project.

Okay. I already said I will talk to Martha and the Board of Select Persons on this project specifically. And, you know, shall we say, reaffirm the support of the Board of Select Persons and and whatever direction might be given. But without an individual taking an initiative with a vision and driving it, nothing happens. I have been on this commission for a lot of years, and I see a lot of wonderful things being proposed and discussed that we do have objectives that we're trying to hold to now. But I'm looking for something tangible as an outcome of the work of our commission. And what I see as tangible is creating whether it's commercial entities providing employment in the town and paying taxes, whether it is a tourist attraction that draws visitation to the town. Those are the things that I'm looking to do in a tangible manner. And I frankly feel that if it's left up to multiple committees, it stagnates and nothing happens.

Well, you can lead a committee and to do that. You're talking about a project you're pursuing that none of us have voted on to have as a priority. It's not in this set of instructions. And I'm concerned about one person pursuing a project, going out and talking to state organizations on behalf of the town when

Well, it's a good point. I will talk to the Board of Select Persons and get reaffirming the authorization that I had years ago.

And in what?

And as far as the strategic objectives, we have a business in town, Black Ball Marina and Paddle Sports. This would significantly expand their business.

Joe, I have no doubt. I understand all of that.

You're telling me that what I'm proposing doesn't fit into our strategic objectives.

I'm telling you the... steps that you are taking on behalf of the commission we have it's not even in our priorities i'm saying that you're acting on behalf of the town when this project hasn't been approved by a group of people i would feel much better if you went to the board of selectmen and asked them how this could move forward And they might say, we're going to appoint a committee. We're appointing you to the committee. Would you please be the committee chair? And maybe that has a harbor management person on it. Maybe it has an open space person. And maybe it has a few other people. And you can run with this project. But it just doesn't belong as an EDC project, in my opinion.

All right. Moving along, regional events and updates. The Greater Old Saybrook Chamber of Commerce first Thursday meeting is September 3rd, which is tomorrow morning from 8 to 9 at the Estuary, 220 Main Street, Old Saybrook. I can't attend that. If anybody's interested to go to that, please let me know.

I can't make morning meetings. I'm working.

I have a meeting tomorrow morning. It's not essential, but it's a good participation for us to keep abreast of.

I'm never available on a Thursday morning. I have a meeting at 7.30 on Thursdays.

Not a problem. Retention of in-town talent, school to career. I continue to follow educational news from my past as a college professor. And it is amazing to see now how colleges and universities are getting very, very strong signal about the need for employability of graduates and also how the interest in trades in particular by parents and I guess high school students in terms of choosing their direction forward, you know, to go to college or to go into some kind of a vocational or trade program. So it's all happening, whether there is an emphasis on it or not. So just that's as much as I can report. I've not had a whole lot of activity with it. New and other business, any new or other business? So I will ask for a motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion. Chairman moves. Second. Moved and seconds. Any discussion? Vote to adjourn. Aye.

Aye.

Unanimous. Thank you very much.