16 Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Budget, Finance, Economic Development Committee. It's now 9.04 a.m. My name is Yuki Naesumi-Moore. I'm the chair of this committee. I'd like to welcome everyone for being here. This meeting is being conducted in an original sunshine thought. As a reminder, when your name is called, if you're not in this finance conference room, which is everybody except Amara Fulton, please identify who's with you in the room, vehicle, or workspace. And first, I'll start off with Never Fulton. Good morning. Good morning.

Aloha kou kai a kou kou. Streaming live and direct from the Finance Conference Room.

Good morning. Member Battongen. Vice Chair Battongen.

Good morning, Chair. Calling in from my office. I'm alone in the workspace.

Good morning. Member Cook. Joining us, right?

Member Cook will be a little bit later.

Member Johnson. Good morning, Member Johnson. Can you hear us? He can't hear us. Can you hear us? No, he can't hear us. Member Johnson, can you hear us? I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Okay, good morning, Shirley.

Good morning. If you're going to Kenya after the primary, you can say hello to everybody by saying kujamba. I'm here alone in my workspace and looking forward to your meeting. Thank you.

Did you say kujamba?

Kujamba. Ujamba? Kujamba. Yeah.

All right. Member Ramos-Fernandez, kujamba.

Nami jamba. Just kidding. I'm at my private residence alone in my workspace right now, but my two minor children will be walking around, I'm sure, on their last day of summer. School starts tomorrow. There are no testifiers at the Molokai District Office. Mahalo, Chair.

Okay. Member Uhachans,

Good morning, Chair. Good morning, everyone. Hoojamba. My husband is home. He's an adult. My oldest son is also home, and he's an adult, but I also have three minors. As Member Rollins-Fernandez said, it is the last day of summer, so everyone is living their last summer best days until tomorrow's reality hits them hard, but they got to wake up for school. Thank you.

And I guess you too, because I know you're always driving everybody around. So good morning, Member Lujan. And Member Johnson, can you hear us now?

Yes, I can. Sorry, I had to restart. I hope you guys can hear me. I'm alone on my side of the office. No testifiers at the Lanai District Office, and I'm here and ready to work. Sorry about that issue. Thank you.

Okay, very good. Assisting us with today's meeting, we have the BFED committee staff. Thank you very much for all the hard work. And we have other invited research personnel from the administration, which will include, we have managing director here. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Always nice to see you. And we also have deputy director of water. Good morning. Good morning. And I think we have director of finance here. At Marcy Martin. Yes. Good morning, Marcy. Good morning. Good morning. Budget Director is here. I don't see you. She's logged in. Sure. Okay. Oh, there you are. Hi, Leslie. Hello, everybody. Deputy Court Counsel Wigglesworth is also with us in person. Good morning. Assisting us today, we have also invited for the first item, enforce all of the people who will help us go through this resolution for the Laniapoko and Oluwalu resolution. Felicia James, Senior Assistant Manager, Lead Vice President, Corolla Engineers, Zach Wright, Partner for NUGEN Strategies and Solutions, Nick Comer, Manager for the NIC New Gem Strategies and Solutions, and Jingle Tamayo representing Maui Taxi Cab Operators, and Mr. Rudy Mendoza representing Maui Taxi Operators. They're here for the second item. Please also see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Thank you members for attending today's BFIT Committee meeting. And we actually have three items on the agenda this morning. one um is b-fed 62 resolutions 26-1-1-6 authorizing the acquisition of water systems assets from laniopoco water company inc and only long thank you water company um inc b-fed 20 for n30 taxicab rates and fees rates rates of fare and baggage charges b-fed 64 bill 101 2026 on the taxicab for baggage and equipment charges. Okay, let's begin with public testimony. Do we have any? Do we have any testifiers?

Thank you, Chair. There's currently no one signed up to testify.

Thank you very much. So members, with your permission, I'd like to close public testimony and receive any written testimony.

Chair? I thought someone was supposed to call in and testify, but if you guys say he's not there, then he's not there. His last four digits was 7893. Okay, if he's not on, then he's not on.

Thanks.

We were checking one last time.

His name is Jonas. I don't know, maybe he... If he didn't, he didn't, but I thought he was supposed to, and it's his first time testifying, so I thought he might need a little help.

Okay.

Okay, so staff is saying we don't see anybody. With your permission, Member Johnson. Okay. So we can move on. All right, so we will now take up the first item, which is Now Resolutions 26116 authorizing the acquisition of water system assets from Lyon-Pocono Water Company and Oluwalu Water Company Inc. um this first item would authorize the economy to acquire the laniapoko and oluwalu water system assets and associated easement rights the total purchase price would be up to six million dollars that's up to excluding closing costs and expenses the water infrastructure committee discussed the proposed acquisition under a discussion only item on July 27th and reached a presentation from the Department of Water Supply. For your reference, a copy of the presentation is from the Granicus number three for BFED 62. Members following the white committee on July 27th meeting, the committee submitted follow up questions to the managing director and the state commission of water resources manager. The managing director's responses is available on Granicus file for Y 110 as document number six. Today, BFM may consider whether to recommend adoption of the resolution. So assisting us with our discussion today is the Managing Director, as well as Deputy Director Landgraf, Marcy Martin, Budget Director Milner, Felicia Gaines, Zach Wright, Nick Palmer, and some members. There's no objections. I'd like to designate the representatives as resource person under Rule 18A of the Rules of the Council, based on their work, their work evaluating and raising the water systems being considered. So this time I'd like to ask for opening comments from Managing Director and Deputy Director Van Graaf, Ben Hutton, and then Mr. Nishihide can direct other pieces.

Okay. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, committee members, for allowing us to be here today. Really appreciate the discussion we had last week. Thank you to Council Member Cook for scheduling that and then the kind of robust discussion that we're able to have. We don't have a presentation to give today. We'll rely on the presentation that was presented last week. We did submit responses to the questions that were submitted in writing and happy to address any follow-up as needed. Of course, as Chair mentioned, we have our team here today, as well as some additional resources that were requested in case there's any questions as to the appraisal process and other aspects related to that. Beyond that, Chair, happy to get into discussion and address questions as the members may have. Okay. Thank you very much.

Deputy Director, do you have any comments?

Pretty much what Josiah said. In fact, he answered all the questions that were submitted, and we're just here to answer more questions, and hopefully talk through, because this is a good atmosphere. Okay.

Anybody else that you would like to be able to touch on?

Well, our resource people are online, in addition to kind of our financial folks and whatnot, so just as members have questions, we'll refer to appropriate resources. Okay, so nobody else. Yeah, okay.

So this time, members, I'm going to ask Member Paulton if you have questions. And three minutes. Chair, I do believe we have to open up testimony for the sign-on. That's right. All right. Do we have any testifiers for the sign-on?

Thank you, Chair. I don't see anyone signed up currently, but I can do a last call if you would like.

Yes, please.

Thank you. This is the last call for testimony on our first item on the agenda today. If you would like to testify, please raise your hand on Teams using the raise your hand function, or if you are calling in, use star six or star five to raise your hand. This will be a last call for testimony on this item. Three, two, one. Chair, I see no one wishing to testify.

Thank you. So at this time, I'm going to close public testimony for this I involved the meeting regarding the resolution and received a testimony and a post-public testimony. Okay, thank you very much. So going to deliver things. Member Fulton, first, since you're sitting here.

Thank you. So, Mr. Landgraf, it was you and Corolla and Mary, you walked all the playgroups and everything like that.

The whole system, putting the websites in.

What kind of pipe do they use?

Is it like PVC steel? So they use a combination of ductile iron, C-900, which is a type of PVC that is basically, it's almost the same as ductile iron, but it's on the plastic side, right? And they have copper.

Okay. And then I read that Lion Purple Water Company has 402 total water system backlit meters. Yes. Are they adding new or would that lead to growth rate 1%?

That would be growth rate 1%. Yeah, so that would be a part of the system that would come to us next year.

And same for the Oluwalu potable? Certainly. Okay. And then in reading the region, they said some of the things, like all existing liens and encumbrances have been disregarded or something. Is that?

No. I'm sorry. Yes, we've looked at it as, you know. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. My name is Zach Wright, and I'm from New Gen Strategies and Solutions. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Yes, we've looked at it as if there are no encumbrances and everything is within the public right of way.

Okay. So I just wanted to clarify. When you say you looked at it as though there are no encumbrances, does that mean there are no encumbrances, or are you just disregarding encumbrances?

As far as we're aware, ma'am, there are no encumbrances. Everything is within the public right of way as far as utilities go.

Okay. And then... Have you inspected the pig reservoir spillway?

In an inspection of a representative sample of the systems in general, I am uncertain at this point whether or not we inspected that certain thing. I would have to go back and look at our records.

Okay. So we know where it is. We didn't actually walk right to it. Okay. Okay.

Just somebody had reported to me that the spillway has pieces of metal or something.

Yeah. So we didn't go back and look at it, but we think that will cause it to go away. So that can't be taken care of fairly easily.

So would that be part of their responsibility before turning it over to us is fixing that?

We don't have a discussion.

And then I guess for Corolla engineers. Okay, next time. She can leave it longer, yeah. Why don't you go on, Carola? Just one more question for Carola engineers. Did they notice any leaks above normal in the system, like comparative to other systems where there are a lot of leaks or reported leaks or replaced fixes in the past? Is Felicia being sparked? Yeah, Felicia, yeah. Oh, can she be in the book?

Good morning. I'm Felicia James, representing Corolla Engineers. And in our observations of the system during our site walks, we did not notice leaks of anything above normal.

Okay. And you didn't see the paid reservoir spillway?

Not that I recall. As was stated, I'd have to go back to my notes to look at that specifically.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

So members will have five minutes. So next we'll have Chernee.

This would be for water. Is the Board of Water Supply meeting on this topic this week? Like on Thursday? Deputy Landgraf?

Yeah, I'm not sure it's on. It's actually on life away all the while. I don't know what the agenda is. Sorry, Jim.

Okay, that's the information I have according to the board's agenda. I was wondering if if you knew ahead of time what their concerns are?

No, I don't. I mean, I can try to find out but I don't know what their concerns are.

I think it has to do with conditional permits. Okay, so you don't know. I was wondering why they're meeting after our meeting. You know, it doesn't kind of make sense.

Yeah.

But don't you help them set up the agendas? Well, not you personally, but your office?

Usually the director does that, and I didn't have a look at the agenda.

If I need to appear, then I know what it is, but usually if I don't, then I'm... Can you remind me if there's any additional water to be obtained in either Laniopoko or Oluwalu?

Yes, there is.

How much?

I would say about two, roughly around 200,000 in Lani Popo and about the same, a little bit less, or about the same amount in Oliver, on the portable side.

On the portable side. Okay. And then, let's see, how much, again, will it cost to operate these systems across the county?

I have to go back. Sorry, Jerry. Okay. Okay, so Daniel, sorry. Go ahead. So operating cost for Lani Apoko is $879,000 a year. For Oluwalu, the total non-fundable and potable is $671,000.

the customers on these systems would be essentially paying for that in fees?

Yes, based on the rate structure.

Okay, so we would either be breaking even or making some money on those fees?

yes yeah chair depends on usage too so we did an analysis based on current usage and this came up at the last meeting i think council member rollins was asking about this but um you know based on current usage in the current fee structure there's a surplus in revenue over the cost to operate the system what would remain to be seen is with the increasing costs of, you know, usage, would that curb, you know, additional kind of conservation?

Well, the main thing is that we're not going to be in a red, you know, in a negative position, right?

Yeah, if usage remains the same and the rate structure is what it is, Council already passed that, then there would be a positive over expenses.

okay and then also um um because this area is designated how likely would we be able to get more water even though more water is available well i can't say let's see what i'm going to say we can ask them um

they do like it that the municipality would be in charge of the system. So it may be more favorable for them.

Okay, who currently maintains this system?

It's people from West Maui land. They have people on the land of Oboe and Owoes.

Okay, and how many customers are on this system? Both of them?

I think... 402 on the Lani Pogo site and about 72 non-potable and 79 potable. Yes, 72 non-potable and 70.

Okay, so then do we have to go to the, be approved by the PUC?

No, they have to approve the sale.

They have to approve the sale?

Yes, well, yeah, right.

They basically would be analyzing whether we could continue to operate the system and maintain service to customers.

Well, my main concern is that we're not going to be operating at a loss because it's just not worth it. Okay, thank you. I don't see too many benefits here. Thank you.

Okay. So next then we will have... Member Botongan, Vice Chair Botongan, followed by Member Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. Can I go back to the response to the last question? You said the PUC looks at a bunch of different things, but one of them was maintaining service to existing customers, correct, Managing Director? So when we last brought this up, I had asked if acquiring the system would mean that we would have to take on any obligations or liabilities? And you said no. And then in our earlier conversation about the West Maui land acquisition, I believe you confirmed that taking on existing customers or the contracts that the company currently has with its customers was an optional thing that was being negotiated. Can you clarify whether or not we are required to continue service to existing customers?

Yeah, sure. And just to clarify what was said was that the PUC is evaluating like whether it's a little different because we have a Department of Water Supply, but to any sale that's occurring, it's ensuring that the entity that's taking over can actually supply water and like manage the system and things like that. So that's what I was referring to in this last comment. And then I'll defer to Kimo. I think he responded at the last meeting in relation to that.

Just about the existing customers. Oh, that was, I think the existing customers, if I'm not referring, if you're referring to the MLP, that's, I think you're referring to MLP, right?

Yes.

So we have to look at those contracts and we're going to see what's in there.

Okay. But with regards to acquiring this asset, there's no obligation to continue the existing contracts. There just is a requirement to be able to provide water in general.

Yes. Yeah. So it's a little bit difficult for the water department. If you are not an existing customer, we don't have an obligation to take you on as a customer. But what's happening, we'll take these people on as a question. But they won't get water from anybody else.

Okay. And then, Chair, question for you. So I think you mentioned that there were questions and responses under Granicus in items number five and six. I don't see items five and six. I only see you one through four.

Under Y. You got to go to . I see.

Okay, so sorry, I misheard then. So it's not under your item, it's under member Cook's committee.

Let me check with staff. I think they put one of the two letters in.

It's in Y, July 27th. The response from the managing director is in Y, item 110, and it's item number five. Items five and six from your VPAT file, item 63, have been uploaded, and they are now in Granite Coast, and we're in response as well as the, there's a response from the Department of Water Support.

Thank you. And I see Member Fulton holding it up for my benefit. Mahalo for that. Okay, so I'll make sure to take a look at those as well. And then can I follow up on what Chair Lee had said regarding the Board of Water Supplies item? So they are taking it up this week, we think. I mean, we just heard an item, I think it was yesterday, where it was requested that the item be deferred until they could weigh in on it. And this was a second round of review that the board was requesting. They had been given legislation, asked for review and comments. Then as a result of revisions made to the proposed legislation because of their comments, it was a slightly different bill and they wanted a second bite at the apple. Have they expressed interest in reviewing this acquisition at all? Given what we were told yesterday, I would prefer to have them review and comment on the proposal. Has this been discussed with the membership in the past, or have they been able to weigh in on it at all? I don't

no i'm sorry okay is there any sort of time sensitivity that would prohibit them from being able to review it in the normal course of their business i think the only piece we have right now is kind of uh you know the pc docket so to say so that's that's really the the main piece of this um We'll find out the timing of the meeting. And of course, you know, council does have a few options if you want to receive that before making a decision, including, you know, discharging or deferring at the council meeting to those comments or receive things like that. There's other options at play as well.

Okay, so I understand.

I have an answer for, about the August 6th meeting. What's on the agenda is a tape report on the recommendations on the water use permit applications in the Lahaina surface and groundwater management area. Okay, so it's not related or unrelated? It's related, but not related, right? It's more about what, how Sea Worm is doing with their permits. Okay.

Okay. Okay, thank you, Deputy.

Oh, are you done?

Yes, and I heard the buzzer. Thank you, Chair.

Oh, there was a buzzer. Sorry. Okay, Member Johnson, followed by Member Ramos-Fernandez.

Thank you, Chair. I saw Director Stufflebeam come on the call, and I'll allow some of my time to be used if you wanted to add some more for the discussion, Director.

Oh, thank you. I was just going to... Kimo answered the question about what the issue of the item was on the agenda this week, so that was what I was going to do, but Kimo answered it. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks for that. So a few of my questions, I'll start off real basic. Correct me if I'm wrong, the two reservoirs are called Pig and Snake, is that correct? Correct. Is there a fence around both reservoirs?

Not currently. Sorry, the Pig one does have a fence. The Snake one does not. Okay.

Okay. So I guess the impetus of my question is, when we acquire this, do we plan to upgrade certain things? Are we going to put a fence around the second reservoir? We'll start with that. You want to speak to that, Deputy?

There will be fences put around the reservoir when the snake reservoir has part of the post-closing obligation.

Part of the, I'm sorry? Post-closing obligation. Oh, great, great. Good to hear. You know, after the fire, Lahaina, one of the things that is in my memory is the troubles that would happen in our water lines is some melted and that toxic water, we were concerned of it going uphill, which is crazy to me. And these back flows melt and they became such an issue. And everybody was so worried about it. Do we have plans to harden or have more of a resilient system if we do purchase this?

Yes. We need to make the changes to make the system more resilient if we will.

Can you give us an example of how much you think it would cost?

Well, they have an example of something that's currently underway is the line of water line projects. where you know like it's extension of lines to uh allow for like fire hydrants and uh uh things like that so so i mean that's a just demonstrated example of uh stuff happening in lima now that is related to kind of pardoning the system as well as kind of providing more opportunity for like firefighting efforts so that that's the plan moving forward when we purchase this we'll be able to put in more fire hydrants right

If necessary, yes, and if there's something that's not in the right place that we need to add because the distance is too far, then we'll do that.

Okay. Okay. You know, I support that kind of work. I wonder if you, this might, nobody might know right now, but is there a cost or a budget that you think you would need to be asking for in the future to do this type of extra work on top of what, you know, besides just purchasing?

There might be, I don't know exactly what the cost would be right now.

Well, if you guys have that kind of desire to do that, I totally would support it myself to do all the action to make it beef, make it more of a beefy system and be able to, you know, put up fire hydrants if it's needed. I just think, you know, Lani Poko, West Maui, I don't know if we ever did solve this fire issue. The grass is still very high and still very dry around these towns. So I don't want to have the same thing happen again if we were to have another tragedy that the lines melted, the backflow melted, and all of a sudden this toxic water is going up in our lines. So hopefully, if there is a thing, that we work on that type of hardening. But it's just a concern I have. That's not saying I don't support this. Of course, I support this. It's just if we get this system, then I'd be willing to invest in it to make it more resilient. But it sounds like you guys have a plan, and I'm in support of this. And that's the end of my questions. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, very good. Member Rollins-Fernandez, followed by a member of the audience.

I asked most of my questions last week in Member Cook's committee. I think there was just one question. I can't remember the answer to. For the two reservoirs, when was the last time the sludge was removed or just the buildup?

I know the Snake Reservoir was recently because they re-lined part of it. I know that's probably the last two years or a year. The Peak Reservoir, I do not know that answer. I can find out.

Okay. Mahalo. Support. Monitor. Call.

Member Wu-Hajian, followed by Member Schultz. I don't see him.

Thank you, Chair. I too asked most of my questions last week when we had this in committee. I guess the only question I have is how are we calculating the breakdown between the purchase price over the two different systems?

Yep. Yeah, sure. I mean, I don't know if that's a question specifically you're referencing to the appraisal that was done. We can refer to our representatives from each end. But in terms of the acquisition price, it is a package deal for the two systems. And, you know, the appraisal kind of speaks to itself as to each system individually.

Okay, good. I know the appraisal was a little bit different than what we're ending up paying. But regardless, I'm happy to support. Thank you. Thank you.

Is Member Cook still joining us? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. Well, thank you very much for, it's my turn then. I had a concern about the Old Wall Fire Station, and this would be a correspondence with SeaWorld. So they responded. I haven't had a chance to look at their letter. Are you familiar with it?

We just heard. Yeah, I didn't read the letter, but the fire station's leader will be in 12 people. Okay. Okay.

Hopefully, but the question was with seaworm acceptance, that was my question.

Yeah, and then my recollection of that, we can go back and look at it, but my recollection of the seaworm response basically said that, you know, once an allocation is made, the jurisdiction would make a determination as to like how that allocation is done. Okay. So they essentially are improving kind of like the overall

water use and yeah we'll see if it can happen but that will be done before we get into the questions okay so same thing that i think you um answered member paulton's question about 402 users for alania poco oops um and that if there are more then they would uh more requests they would apply to the county would that be uh would they then have to be like the up-to-date water meter list upon a whole system or you have a system developed so that... Well, it should be sort of like if somebody came out and asked for a water meter, it would be the same thing.

It would go through the same process. And so we would see if there's water available for this.

Okay, but in this case, there is water. So if there are new... So if they're new requests, then probably they couldn't be like off country. Is that what you're assuming? And then Shirley had questions regarding the land use commission, no PUC. So PUC, because I deal with them a lot, you said that this would go before them just as an approval for the purchase. would they be adding on conditions or concerns to this that would be of concern to us as a company? Are you going or is it just yes, no?

Is Caleb on the line? Maybe Caleb, if you're on the line, if you want to talk a little bit about the PUC process, perhaps.

Hi, I'm here. Yeah, so the... Sorry, Joe. So the PEC process is really just, if it's a regulated industry, they have to approve any disposition of assets. So because these are regulated industries, in order for the sale to go through, they do. However, because we will not be regulated by them once it is transferred to us, they're not really going to put any conditions on them because they don't have jurisdiction to regulate, is my understanding.

That's good. I would hate for us to go through this and then we find out there's a whole bunch of other things that the county is now responsible for, but that'll be all taken up with due diligence, that we would not.

Yeah, it goes to PUC. They say when you go to PUC, they're gonna say, does the person who's taking it over have the financial capability and the operational capability?

So that's what they're, okay. All right, so I'm done. Member Cook, welcome to the meeting. Do you have questions? Can you hear us?

Good morning, Chair. Sorry I'm late. I'm in my Kihi office and staff is outside. I don't have any questions. I just got here. Thank you for having the meeting.

Okay. Thank you very much. Members, does anybody have... Oh, Shirley.

Yeah, I'm not going to support this right now. My understanding is this matter is called out in the TIG report with the Board of Water Supply, and they don't meet until I think Wednesday or Thursday. So I'm going to just reserve my vote for it. after I hear what they have to say with regard to this, because they did call this out. They seem to have concerns, and I'd like to hear them. Thank you.

Okay. So how do we get on their agenda? I guess it would be Deputy Director, because this is not on their next agenda, according to what you said.

No, their next agenda has a report based on the the permits in the lineup service water drama and that's right there i don't know it's actually directly they're calling online for all the wall of the right i think they're looking at the permits across the whole state it's the water use permit applications with seaworm yeah okay so what about this from baseball what charity just did let's just hear me said that

Stuff will be said that it wasn't. Right. You can call stuff will be.

Let me finish off with charity then. Sorry about that.

Yeah. Okay. My point is I have reservations, but if the body wants to move forward and vote on it today, that's entirely up to you. I just said when I have reservations, I want to hear what they have to say, and I'll really make up my mind at first reading. Okay?

Okay.

Thank you, Chair. This one's for Deputy Director. So I'm reading through the sea worm response that went to Member Cook's committee. And it talks about the process for transfer to the colony of the ground and surface water use permits. So it sounds like we're currently or the two companies are currently applying for permits. And if the sale goes through before the permits are issued, there's no way for the applications to transfer to our name. If the permits are issued after closing, then there is a mechanism for the permits to be transferred to us. But we have to accept all of the conditions placed on those permits. Now, When we were discussing the PUC permits, you mentioned that public entities don't get as many conditions because they're not regulated by the PUC. Is that also the case for Seaworm? Is there a benefit for the county to be the applicant in this process, or are we comfortable accepting any conditions placed on Laniopoko and Oluwalu as private entities.

Mr. Rowe just popped up.

Caleb, did you want to say something?

Caleb, did you want to say something?

He just popped up. If Kima wanted to say something, I'll wait for him, but I can comment.

Yeah, so CRM really has to do about the water use permits, right? The withdrawals on the permit. So Whatever it is right now, we will take what it is if we transfer before the permit gets done. And we'll use that if we have to go in and ask for more, if we need more. So that's kind of what we're going to stay to right now, because it's about getting through the process, right? And if we need to do something later, then we can do that. But CRM is about what I use permits. PUC is about they're more protecting the customer.

Okay, so there's no advantage to the county being the applicant versus a private entity when it comes to applying for these permits.

I can take a stab at that, Chair. The way that these water permits are looked at is they look at the end use and there are kind of priorities amongst the types of usage one of those is for domestic use my understanding is that under these permits they're primarily already doing domestic they're going to be doing domestic use anyway so they're not really going to get much of a priority over the county who's also going to be applying based on primarily domestic uses so i don't think that they will really make a difference okay thank you jerry thank you um definitely something to add no okay

Anybody else have any, Member Rollins-Fernandez?

I saw Member Poulton's hand up before mine. I can go after her.

Oh, sorry about that. Thank you, Member Poulton. Thanks. I just wanted to comment that the State Water Code doesn't express the establishment procedure for substituting a new applicant for pending water use permit application following acquisition, but it does say that the county should promptly notify Sea Worm. And, you know, I've been to a number of Sea Worm meetings and I think that their tone would definitely be different if they were aware that the county was the purveyor of the water system because of the, I guess, long sordid folks, sordid history of the other folks, you know, like, all the violations and fines that they've had to do. I mean, if I was on a commission and I received this information, I would definitely consider the county as a more reputable source, I guess. But I also agree with Mr. Rowe. Domestic use is high up there. below the HHL and TNC uses, of course. So I mean, regardless if it was West My Land or Hawaii Water Service or the county, I don't think the objective of Sea Worm is to cut off water from domestic users, regardless of who is the purveyor of that water.

Thank you. Very good. Anybody else have any comments? Mahalo.

So what's on the Board of Water Supply's agenda on Thursday is what um deputy director and director of water both said which is the tig report and in the tig report it has several appendices the appendices go over the designation of the lahaina aquifer sector as a water management area water use permit process with the lahaina aquifer sector Summary of applications received for the Lahaina Surface and Groundwater Management Area status and key dates, Maui Land and Pine and County of Maui Department of Water Supply Memorandum of Understanding the Legal Status of Water Sources, the Legal Status of Maui Land and Pines Diversion of Honokohau Stream, and the Legal Status of Diversions from Kaua'ula Stream. And then it goes into Honokohau, Kanaha, Kanaha, Honokohau. None of them are talking about the Oluwalu system or the potable system for Launio Poko. It does have the Launio Poko Irrigation Company, LIC, under the legal status of diversions from Kawaula Stream. But that is not the system that we're acquiring. We're only acquiring the groundwater system from Launio Poco, not the surface water. So it does not go over any of the systems that we're talking about in today's meeting for Board of Water Supply. Board of Water Supply also knew that we were considering the acquisition of these systems for months. And if they had a concern about it, I'm sure they would have agendized and had a discussion on it. There is, so on slide 25 from the presentation in Y committee last week, member Cook's committee, there is a slide on the annual operating cost and revenue for both systems. Well, the three systems, potable system, potable and non-potable system. and um the launio poco systems operating cost is 879 664 with a revenue of 2 million 561 thousand forty four dollars so obviously that number is bigger than the revenues number is two million and the operating costs is less than 900 000 so the revenue is more than the operating cost and then olowalu the operating cost is 671 554 and the revenue is 734 363 so again the revenue is more than the operating cost so it is projected to operate in the black and not in the red um And then if you want to hear about the legal status of the Kawaula Stream, I did pull that out, but that is not concerning the systems that we are discussing today.

Mahalo, Chair.

Thank you. Chair Lee.

Thank you for that long-winded explanation, Ms. Rollins. Anytime, Chair. But I have, and I'm entitled to my opinion, right? Yeah. Thank you very much. And my information says that the Board of Water Supply through its TIG report is concerned about permits surface and groundwater in the Lahaina District. So, which includes Laniapoko and Oluwole. So as far as I'm concerned, I would like to hear from them and shame on them for not knowing our agenda. But the fact is, I said, I want to hear from them. If you folks want to vote on this, go right ahead. So please don't debate my point of view, okay? Thank you.

Aloha. So, department, is there a reason why you didn't refer this to point of question five, based upon what Sherita said?

Well, so the Board of Water Supply does review the budgets of the department, including the funding requests for acquisition of the water system. So they do have an opportunity to discuss all of this. Well, so you're saying you've dated already? Well, I mean, the Board of Water Supply also determines, you know, their own benefits and what they feel is appropriate areas or most concerning areas or whatnot. If the membership is asking for like a formal opinion request or something like that, it's different than what the Board of Water Supply is expressing directly right now that they have concerns. So you guys just let us know how you want to proceed with that.

Do we defer this to the Board of Water Supply? What does that do to your time schedule?

I believe they only meet like once a month. So that means that, you know, they wouldn't take it up until probably September and then, you know, then refer back the item to council or committee. So then that would be September or maybe it's October, depending on the timing of the meeting. and then the Indian Council would have to act from there. So that could be in October or later, depending on the timing of the funding. So then that impacts the PUC docket schedule and kind of what's anticipated for the acquisition timeline, as well as I guess what remains to be seen too is where the seller would stand as well if we're unable to take more timely action on these items. We would have to have conversations with them about delays in the process and then whether that would impact any of the discussions or events at all.

Interesting. The premium seller might pull back.

No, I mean, I can't say that, and I wouldn't have an indication that they would. I just can't speak on behalf of the seller. And so I do know that there are, for all the water systems that we're talking about, there could be potential for other buyers and other plans and stuff like that. So, I mean, it's going to be a matter of what we would have to notify the seller of any changes to that. potential timeline and then, uh, you know, discuss from there.

Didn't you tell us that PUC would not be till next year?

Well, it would be under the timeline that was provided. It would get transmitted to the PUC after council approval. Um, The PUC is anticipated to take a number of months to debate the item and investigate whatever else they need to do before approval is given. And then there's some steps that have to be taken after PUC approval, both by the county and potentially the seller for it to reach that closing timeline. And then that would be projected to be in about April next year. Whenever you mention it, it sounds like there's not any difficult narrative. I mean, we can't control the PC timeline on when they would take up the item or what kind of questions they would ask and whatnot, but that potentially could be a months-long process going before them to get it put forward. That has already been factored in in our discussions with the the seller on this acquisition, but you know, if there was additional kind of time delays or anything like that, I think we would just need to be forthright to them about that and then, you know, see if there was any changes from that standpoint. Yeah.

Okay. Member Paulson, you have your hand up. Thank you. I move to pass Regulation 26-116 on to first meeting. Second.

Okay, motion made by member Poulton, second by member Rollins-Hernandez, discussion.

Thank you. So my understanding is that the county or the water department enlisted Corolla Engineering to do a comprehensive review on the system liability and entirety of the assets. And they contributed that report to NUGEN, who analyzed the financial investment value of the systems. And, you know, while nobody can see the future, in nearly every seaworm meeting that I've been to, it's kind of been a packed house of people seeing that 28% of the water for West Maui is too little bit to have under public control and 77% is too much to have under private interest control. Langepoko Irrigation was a similar runner, been run by a similar group to Laniapopo Water in the distant past. I've racked up a lot of finds from Sea Worm. And I think that, you know, the county works in a much more transparent way and doesn't just willfully disregard laws in terms of diversion and things like that. And so I'll speak in full support of it. And I don't think it's a smart move to delay it any further. We know what happened to the Ma'alaya land last time when we started goofing around and then Peter Martin bought it and then all this other stuff. And I think, thankfully, now it's back under public trust. But we don't want to even... deal with that kind of drama, if you ask me. Thank you.

Member Rolls-Royce.

Mahalo, Chair. I echo Member Poulton's sentiments. This is what the West Side has been asking for, public control over water. Part of the reason that the whole ground and surface water management area was something that the Westside community was asking for is because almost 90% of the water was controlled by private interest. So we're now rectifying this by taking control on behalf of the community for the public in the public's interest of water. I don't think we should shame the Board of Water Supply for not taking up this item. They're volunteers. And if they were seriously concerned, I have zero doubt that they would have quickly met on this to transmit to us their position on this. But because they didn't, to me, it tells me that they weren't concerned. Opinions are like buttholes. We all have one, but opinions are not more important than facts. Mahalo chair.

Okay. Before you go to remember cookie little key to clarify that my motion was to recommend adoption at first. I think that's what you said. I think I said pass. Oh, okay. Okay. Which adoption is like more appropriate. So fine. Yes. You guys are fine at that point.

All right. Um, Do you want to say something else, Member Fauci?

Is that okay with my seconder to substitute pass for adoption? Yes. Member Cook.

Thank you, Chair. I'm supportive of this because of the nuts and bolts. There's a whole lot of political and social desires and whatnot. I think that the Appraisal and the investigation into the water system was thorough. The fact that the deputy director and some of the journeymen that actually work on the system went out during that process really raised my comfort level. The comments that they relayed to me was they were basically impressed with the maintenance and the installation of the system. we this is one of like three big water purchase projects that we have in front of us. This particular one, I think it's the most simple and cut and dry and I'm supportive of it and hopeful that we can. And one of the big things I'm confident that the water department with the additional staff that we have, the council has allocated to them in the last budget was they'll be able to maintain and manage this system that's already functioning, already serving clients. And the fact that it will not be PUC regulated in the future because it's the County of Maui, I think it's a win-win all the way around. So I just wanted to weigh in. I'm supportive of this. Thank you very much, Chair.

Very good. Chair Lee.

Yeah, I request a roll call because I'll be voting no. As I said earlier, my vote could change later at the council meeting. However, for now, I don't feel comfortable. My process for decision making is reliant not only on facts, but objectivity. I try not to get emotional with my decision making. And I am very concerned about the financial state of the county. And that's where my priority lies, that we're making a wise and prudent decision economically, financially. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Member Basange.

Thank you, Chair. I'll be supporting the motion at this time. We heard... the proposal in Member Cook's committee in the past. I was able to ask a lot of my questions then. I was supportive of it then. I do want to note, though, that throughout my tenure, I've always said that when presented with new information, I'm open to taking a new position. And since we heard a new committee, we have gotten quite a bit of information. We had a follow-up, or not a follow-up meeting, but we had another meeting on a different land acquisition in West Mile in which new information was presented. We received a seaworm bladder. And we did hear from the Board of Water Supply. These members said that they wanted to be able to weigh in on these large or on matters large and small. And so I don't think it's fair to cast eyes members for wanting to do deliberation. I'm still supportive of this, but if I get additional information from the Board of Water Supply meeting that comes up, I might be open to taking a different position. I just want that stated. So Chair, for all of the reasons that we had previously discussed, I will be supporting the motions on the floor. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else have any comments before I take a roll call? Member Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. I support this. You know, the county purchasing infrastructure for me is I that's kind of the way I like to do things, because when I think of infrastructure, the word that comes to mind is crumbling. And throughout our county, we have so much work to do on infrastructure to get a working system that we can no longer can take it out of the privatized hands and put in the public hands. That's right up my alley. So I'm going to support this and I think that there's more work to be done More work to be considered, more things to be considered when it talks about, when we talk about like our large $1.6 billion budget, we should be purchasing up private water systems. We should be purchasing up land. We should be purchasing up some of those houses on the Minnetonka list, those condos on the Minnetonka list so that we can all have this connected to have our people live and thrive. This is taking the profit out of it and putting the service into it. And that's what I'm here for. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Member Uhajans.

Thank you, Chair. I'll also be supporting this today. I know Member Cook has been working on this for a long time, so I'm happy that we got to this point, I'll be honest. Not always do we have a willing seller for water and infrastructure, and I'm really happy that we do today and we had the other week. Right now we have two, which is pretty historical. I would love to see more of our water in the county's control. I know things are sometimes extremely expensive, but I think for $6 million, it's a very small percentage in our overall budget. I know we're going to have to figure it out and we have to cut costs in certain places, but I don't think the ownership of our water is where we want to begin. I understand everybody has different perspectives, but I'm happy to be at this point and I'll be supporting it today and in the future votes to come. Thank you.

Member Paltzer, you did speak. Do you want to say anything else? I'm ready to vote. Okay. All right. Roll call, please.

Chair and members, proceed with roll call. Council Member Tom Cook, or Committee Member Tom Cook?

Aye.

Committee Member Gabe Johnson?

Yes.

Committee Member and Council Chair Owsley? No. Committee Member Tamara Paulton. Aye. Committee Member Keone Rollins-Hernandez. Aye. Committee Member Shane Sinensi.

Excuse.

Committee Member Uhu Hadjit. Aye. Committee Vice Chair Batonga.

Aye.

And Committee Chair McEwiley-Seedemore. Aye. Chair, that is seven ayes, one no, and one excused.

Motion. Okay, thank you. So Chair Lee, I hope you do get more information from the Board of Water Supply if there are concerns from them based upon what you said. And it's motion, so I mean, this will now transfer and go to you. Okay, anything else? Nope, thank you. Thank you, members. Thank you, resources, for joining us today. Okay, we wanna go to the next item or we wanna take a 10-minute break. Should we take a 10-minute break?

Chair, what do you want? I'd like to request a break, please.

Okay, okay, we will then. So it's 10-10, 10-20. 10-20, thank you. Thank you. Welcome back to the Budget, Finance, Economic Development Committee. We're now taking up the second item on our agenda, which is BFED 20 Taxicab Rates and Fare and Baggage Charges and BFED 64, which I guess is Bill 101, 2026 on Taxicab Baggage and Equipment Charges. So members, I will call up this item, and both involve taxicab baggage and equipment charges. The first item is BFED 2030 on Rule 7b, Discussion on Taxicab Rates and Fare and Baggage Charges. includes a Department of Finance biennial report on taxicab rates of fare and baggage charges required under Section 5.16.100 Maui County Code. The report is in Granicus 1. No legislative will be taken on the report. The second item on BFED 64 Bill 101-2026. which would update taxicab baggage and equipment charges. Bill 101 would increase the general charge from 50 cents to $1 per piece per trip, and it would also authorize a $10 charge for specific oversize or heavy items and certain equipment. We will receive opening comments and testimony on both these items and then discuss them together. Assisting us with our testimony today, we have Director Marcy Martin. I saw her earlier, so she must be on the call. As well as Jingle Tamayo and Mr. Rudy Mendoza representing Maui Taxi Cab Operators. Members, if there's no objections, I'd like to designate Mr. Tamayo and Mr. Mendoza as a resource person under Rule 18A of the Rules of the Council based on their expertise with taxi cab operations. No objection. Thank you. No objection. I will also. Thank you. I will also ask for opening comments from Director Martin and as well as our resources. Director Martin.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you for including us today. We are here as a resource. I have Lito Villa, the DMVL administrator, also as a resource. And we have reviewed Bill 101, and we have no comments or concerns. And again, happy to assist you today. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Villa. I don't see him. Is he on?

I will get him. We just promoted him.

Okay, so you're on now. Are you there?

I'm here, Chair. Good morning, everybody.

Good morning. Good morning.

I'm here to assist, as Director Martin says, we're here to support The council and whatever is decided, we're going to execute it.

Okay. Very good. So anybody else? Ben, I'm going to open this up for public testimony. Any testifiers?

Thank you, Chair. Currently no one has signed up to testify on this item. Would you like to do a last call?

Yes, please.

Thank you. If anyone would like to testify on this item, please identify yourself using the raise your hand feature on Teams. And if you're calling in, you can use star five to raise your hand. This will be a last call for testimony. Three, two, one. Chair, I see no one wishing to actually, I'm sorry, I do have one testifier.

Okay, so the testifier, then hang on. So if you're testifying, please identify yourself by name and organization, if there is any. And you have one item on the agenda, so you're testifying on that. And members may have questions after you're done testimony. Well, on this agenda. So on this particular part of the agenda regarding taxicab, there's the Bill 101, and Okay, so you have three minutes. Please identify yourself, and if you're not completed, I'll give you another 30 seconds. Proceed.

Okay, aloha.

I'm testifying as a citizen of the Hawaiian kingdom, and I just wanted to comment that can there, so this is about fees for taxis and stuff like that. So can the Native Hawaiian and Kanaka Maoli people be free of charge of any of these things? Mahalo. That's all I wanted to say. Oh.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Any questions, members? We'll work on that. Next testifier.

Thank you, Chair. That's our last testifier who's indicated so far. So can we do the last call again?

Yes, please.

Thank you. If anyone would like to testify on this item, please raise your hand on Teams or use star five on your phone to raise your hand. This will be the last call for testimony. Three, two, and one. Chair, I see no one wishing to indicate or indicating they wish to testify.

Thank you. So we're going to close public testimony. Receive any written testimony on this item regarding taxicabs. And I'm going to close public testimony at this time. The members, anybody have questions for the testifiers? I'm sorry, not testifiers, for the resources. Anybody have any nothing? Okay, so I have, oh, Member Johnson.

I have a question in regards to who enforces all of these rates. Who would be, if there's a taxi who wants to complain that these other guys are not following the rates, who do they call? Is it DMV? Is it finance? Who's enforcing all these?

Director of Finance or Mr. Viva.

Thank you, Chair. I'll attempt to answer that. The DMV's function is to issue the licenses. And it's based upon the county code. And our understanding is county code is enforced by the Enforcement Division of Maui Police. However, that would probably fall under their myriad of tasks to follow on.

So everybody's at the, the cruise ship waiting to all the taxis are lined up. Little Tommy says, I'll take you for $10. And little Susie said, I'll take you for $8. That's who enforces that. Don't you? Isn't there like the getting in fights is what I'm hearing. There's people getting really competitive and there's drama and all kinds of stuff going on over there. So who do they call police for that is what you're saying.

So I have some comments to add if finance doesn't mind. Is that okay? Sure. Okay. So, you know, so I've been getting calls from PUC operators and what you're talking about versus taxicab. And there are two different licenses. And I also found out that when cruise, this whole discussion is when cruise ship comes in, the PUC operators are saying that the taxi drivers are taking business away from them. Only authorized people can, first of all, go into the harbor area, which is restricted by state DOT. So county has no jurisdiction over that. So that's the first thing I learned. And that only PUC drivers can go in there. So as far as that allegation, they would have to charge, talk to the state DOT, harbors division, not the County of Maui. And I don't know anything about, I mean, that's a harbor, right? So harbors takes care of harbors, County takes care of not that area. And the other thing that I found out is the PUC licenses are specifically issued to them to do tours. So I think, I'm going to guess on this, I think they have set fees. Like if you want to go to Hana, it's going to be $200 or whatever it is. Taxi drivers charge a fare based on, is it by time? Meter, right? Whatever the meter says. So it's when your meter is running. So it's very two different operations. And because the PUC operators had been calling me, it was five o'clock in the morning, I got a call thinking, oh my God, there's a, something happened at HANA, because he mentioned HANA. So I, of course, you know me, I got to answer the call. And I wanted to make sure that the driver was okay. And it was, his concern was this. So I have a contact that he can call with PUC to express his concern regarding his PUC license. So on today's agenda is not about PUC and that particular concern, although you and I are both hearing their concerns, so I want to help them and I will contact The person who you're talking to contacted me, so I have his cell number, and I'll give him the PUC contact so that he can express his concerns to me.

Chair, I don't want to take us off the rails. I just want to know who's doing the enforcement, but it's not an easy... It's a lot of gray areas on this side of the parking lot. It's these guys. Oh, my God, what a mess. All right. I don't want to take up any more time. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Chair. They can't even get in. Taxi drivers cannot even get into the harbors. unless they have the PUC, is what I understand. This is the research based upon that I did. So any other questions? Thank you, Member Johnson. Okay, so before we go into the bill, because I would like to approve it, I just wondered if Department of Finance came up with any principal findings from the department's financial, by any review, beyond what we're talking about today? And that would be my new question.

None? Chair Litovilla, when we reviewed the rates as we compared the other counties, none. And it appears that when looking at the other county rates, Maui is probably the lowest as far as the regular baggage rate at this point in time.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for doing your review, by the way, and that's why we're taking this item up. So then, members, there's no other questions. Thank you. We're good. Would you like to say anything before I pass the bill?

Just pass the bill. Are you taking both of them? Oh, okay. Anybody else?

No.

You guys want to say anything?

Oh, we're good. We're just thankful that Mr. Vila and the finance director did a very good research by stating the fact that so far in the entire state of Hawaii, we in Maui County has the lowest charges of the baggage and all those luggage carried on to our taxi cabs at the airport. Thank you.

Okay. Very good. So, All right, so at this time then, I'm gonna enter a motion to pass Bill 101-2026 on first reading. Yay, is there a second? Second by Member Rollins-Fernandez, or Member Wu-Hawkins. We got a lot of seconds. Discussion?

I would love to propose an amendment to say in Section D, it would read as follows. A flat charge of $1 per piece per trip for each piece of equipment or baggage handled by the driver in loading, unloading, or both, except that a charge of $10 for each transported large pet crate, oversize baggage, golf club bag, bicycle, surfboard, or item weighing more than 50 pounds. Motorized and non-motorized wheelchairs will be transported at low charge. That would be my motion to amend. Basically removing the maybe added because it's causing some confusion.

Okay, is there a second? Second member, Ronald Fernandez, okay. Also, just for consistency, the court counsel or Mr. Fanano, can you talk about how this would impact the on the bill, which is not on before us today, but can you explain this? We would have to change that also.

Yeah, Chair. So as proposed by a council member, I think her intent was to remove the phrase may be added and just eliminate that. I would suggest putting another word like applies in case of that phrase. And so there's two places where we'll do that. One would be at the beginning where it says a flat charge or $1 per piece per trip. I would say applies. voting for both, except that a charge of $10 applies for each transported large pet trade oversight package of that bicycle report for item weighing more than 50 pounds.

It's necessary?

I think so, because if you don't put that in there, it's kind of missing a verb.

Okay. Premium amendment, I'll accept it if my seconder can accept it.

Okay, very good. And then E, for airport pickup fee of $5.00. Okay, that's awesome. Okay, and then one more thing that I wanted clarification on. Well, we're gonna vote on this first. Any other discussion regarding this amendment? If not, can we vote? All in favor, raise your hand, say aye. Aye, so who's not here? Member Sinenci is not here. Member Cook can you hear us? He's talking to somebody else.

I'm voting for him. He's supporting.

Member Cook, can you hear us? Member Cook? Okay.

Yeah, my apology. I got distracted with my staff.

Okay. So all in favor, raise your hand, say aye. And who's excused? Stable? Stable. Stable. So next is an amendment for clarification. Under oversized baggage means baggage that measures more than 62 liter inches calculating at a sum of a length, width, and height or weighs 50 pounds or more. So the or more and delete more than is the motion. I need a second. Are you adding? I'm adding or more and deleting more than. You're adding a section three? No, no, this is under oversized baggage. Look above section three. Oh, I see. It's under section two. So many. There's a second. Thank you. Remember, second. So now oversized baggage will be weighs 50 pounds or more.

Sure.

Yeah, yes.

So if that is gonna be part of the amendment, then I think we also need to amend section B. Okay. So at the end where it says, for an item weighing more than 50 pounds.

50 pounds or more. Oh yeah, I see that, okay. To my original second amendment. Very good. Very good, my second, very good. That's agreed. So it is clean and all in favor members, raise your hand, say aye. Okay, good. So motion carries. So that's going to be eight ayes, one excuse, Member Cerenci. Yay, we're done.

Wait, Chair, I have a question.

What's the main motion? Oh, the main motion has been amended. Go ahead.

Okay, before we get to the main motion, can I get clarity on the First Amendment that we took? So the Bill 101, 2026, I see proposed language to amend the section three, subsection D. You mentioned something about E relating to airports. I don't see that.

Because it's the rest of the chapter. So can Corp Counsel or can Mr. Hanano explain and say that we can maintain subsection?

Okay. So basically, we're amending subsection D to remove the median. Subsection E, consistent with that, we would remove the baby language as well and substitute applies.

Okay. So the only code amendment to Section E, which is not part of this bill, is for consistency and it's just that maybe added portion?

That's correct.

Okay. Understood. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Rollins-Fernandez, Council Member Rollins-Fernandez.

Mahalo, Chair. Okay, so it's going to be 50 pounds or more, so it includes 50 pounds. Are they going to have, like, a weight thing, or, like, how are they going to – I mean, I don't, like, really care, but, yeah. Can someone answer how they're going to weigh it?

Okay. isn't 50 pounds at the airport. And so if it's over that, they have like this orange thing that says headgear.

There's a sticker.

There's a sticker.

What if they remove it? Yeah.

Okay.

Well, let's hope they're honest.

And then just to clarify, the sticker is for 50 pounds or more or 51 pounds or more? I want the airport regulation to be the same as ours if we're relying on the sticker for enforcement.

Also, I would just take out like a couple pounds and put it inside another bag. to avoid an extra charge.

But I guess for our resource personnel, the overweight sticker applies to 50 pounds or more or 51 pounds or more?

It's over 50 pounds or more.

Okay, so it's inclusive of 50.

But we just made the amendment 50 pounds or more. Correct.

I'm just making sure that our amendment is consistent with what the airlines do.

Yeah, the sticker is more than 50 pounds because you're allowed 50 pounds.

Thank you.

But again, there's no limit to the amount of bags when you go into a taxi versus when you go into a plane. So, I mean, I think other people would do the same. Just take out a couple pounds, done.

Yeah, because if you load anything in the plane and it's more than 50 pounds, then you have to pay more. But in our case... We cannot. It's just that $10. That's it. It's over sex.

Yeah, so that's why I'm saying I would just take out a couple pounds and then I would put it in another bag and avoid the extra charge because there's no limit on bags in a taxi.

But I support.

I don't think I have to tell anyone this strategy. I think it's pretty common sense to avoid, you know, the frugal people.

Well, they do that too, you know, even before boarding the plane. If the passenger knows that her, his luggage is over the allowable weight, you know, right before they check in, they'll move around just to go through without paying extra.

so it's not something unusual everybody does the same thing okay very good but sure okay very good um so now the discussion all in favor we're uh main motion has a minute all in favor raise your hand say aye so that would be seven eyes i think i saw mr vila oh mr vila did you want to say something before we vote sorry

Thank you, Chair. I was just reflecting upon the applies verbiage that was proposed. If the intent is we want the charge to be assessed, maybe we should change it to shall and change it to shall be charged.

It's mandated. We don't want to do that. We want to say applies. Thank you. Yeah.

Okay, but thank you. And all right, so we're gonna go main motion as amended. All in favor, raise your hand, say aye. All right, so we have seven, eight ayes, one excuse, which is member Cerenzi. Motion carries. Bill Dunn, very good. So this will then go over and be sent to council chair's committee or first reading. Bill Dunn with this meeting. All in favor of adjourning. Again, this meeting is now adjourned. 10.50. Take care, everyone. Bye. Bye.