Zoning & Building Standards Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

the order. We'll get going here. No, I think everybody think we're good. Um, so uh first order of business for tonight is um uh the roll call. So go ahead and call the role, please. Mr. Zinger here. Mr. Stalker here. Mr. McGinness here. Mr. Lamuel. Miss Finger here.

Okay. Four out of the five members are present. That means we have a quorum. Uh just be aware um you still need a majority of the board uh to to pass anything and I guess with four people that means three you know we need three people to agree on a motion for anything to pass. Um that would mean only one descent. Uh for with that then the next item is the minutes for consideration. Our last meeting was June 5th 2025. Those minutes were provided to us before this meeting this evening to review. So, I would um entertain a motion to approve those minutes. A motion to approve. All right. And a second. A second.

All right. We'll do call the role for that. Miss Pinger and Stain. Mr. McInness. Yes. Mr. Stalker. Yes. Mr. Zinger. Yes. So, three to zero to one abstension that that uh the minutes are adopted. Uh, and with that, the next item is the only variance request we have this evening. Uh, why don't you go and for the records, um, call out what that request is.

Yep. Application ZBA-25-5, Madison Wire, 336 Portage Street Northwest. A variance requesting relief from section 1153.02 B1 requiring two enclosed parking spaces and allow the existing ETA structure to be used as a home office. Okay. Thank you. Uh, we aren't putting anybody under oath anymore, right? We're not doing that with these meetings. Is that correct? We used We were doing that. I can't I couldn't remember. We were doing that for a while. We We're not doing that. So, we just had just being recorded. Yeah.

I would still Excuse me if I could interject. I would I would still recommend putting the any anyone testifying under oath. Okay. Um, I guess I could administer that since I'm an attorney. So, I would do is anyone who thinks even thinks they might speak tonight, if you can, if you could stand up and raise your right hand. If you can't stand, you could just raise your right hand for me. Um, do all of you solemnly swear to tell the truth and the whole truth. Uh, and if you testify tonight? Yes.

All right. Thank you. You can be seated. Uh, these meetings are being recorded by a recorder. We used to have court reporter do these, but now we just have them recorded. Uh so what's going to happen is um we're going to have everybody who wants to speak speak. We'll have anyone in favor of the application speak first starting with the applicant.

Um that when you get up to speak um you go to the podium, say your name and your address. Uh just for the record uh you'll get a chance to speak your piece. Um there will be there may be questions. I like to ask a lot of questions of people. Um, so it's important that we not talk over one another. Um, I'll ask a question, have every opportunity to answer that question if there is one. Uh, the other thing is avoid uh answering any questions with nodding or shaking of the head. Make sure you give your answers verbally. Yes, no, I don't know, or or an explanation that makes it that way because it's hard for, you know, with a recording to know what the what the response is. Um, this is an adjudicatory proceeding. It's public. It's open to the public, but this is more like a court proceeding than it is just a public speaks situation. So, we're only going to talk about what's relevant tonight. Um, if I find getting off topic, um, I'll try to steer the discussion. With that, I try to keep things open and let keep people let people talk and keep it as conversational as possible. Uh, so with that, um, I'll let the applicant get up and speak first. um or whoever wants to speak in on in favor of the application to get up and speak first and you go to the podium if you can please

and you again just state state your full name and address for the record

everybody I'm Madison Bler my address is 336 Street Northwest obviously so the home that we're talking about um and the I guess the the gist of it is I've been working with Ben, that's an interesting name to call you out over the last handful of months. Um figuring out I guess I'm a first-time home buyer, so I don't know anything about zoning or appeals and permits and this whole process. So, he's been helping me out and giving me some education. And there is a detached structure behind my home, 208. It's a separate address. Um, and I have been wanting to use that as a home office. So, the question mark has been all right. There are barn doors that have been added to it. I know as recent as 2019, it was sided. It was its own building. So, I don't know when the barn doors were put on. When I purchased it, they were there. And I'm wondering if I can get the appeal from a covered parking space in order to use that structure as a home office. Um, I have some numbers mapped out. I can go into as much detail as as wanted. I know I put a lot on that application, but ultimately it's not used as a parking space right now. My car does not actually fit in there. I know the North Canton city code defines a parking space, I believe, 9 ft by 18 ft. My opening is about 7 and 1/2 ft. The depth of it, do you remember?

I don't want to see it. I can look it up on my computer. Um, but my little Honda Civic does not functionally work in there as a garage. So right now it's been storing my mower. So it's about 220 square feet give or take that's going to my mower. So I'm hoping to be able to use it as a home office instead. Okay. Uh yeah. So this this building has water going to it and electric. Yep. Um has a bathroom, kitchen, everything. And you live at this address full time? Yes. And you you intend to use this as your office.

No one else is going to live there or in the house this moment in time. I'm single. Um Okay. But I I don't know what that would look like. I have a friend that crashed with me for a couple weeks. I don't know what that's kind of No. What I I guess what I mean is there's no there's no other families that are going to live in the house or this structure at any point. No. Okay. In the in the second structure. In the second structure. No. My understanding is that per zoning regulations, it's a single family dwelling and that's what it would remain.

Yeah. The reason I'm asking is I guess in the past the prior owner had or some prior owner had a multiple families living there at some point and there were stairs going up to the second floor. That's been removed. And your intention is to keep this as a single family home. Okay. Yep. Both buildings would be one single family dwelling. in and both I know this this building has a different address but it's all on the same parcel correct same

I at this point yes I again I don't know what that looked like in the past cuz the the home the main building 336 portage has a really weird layout and I know it used to have steps so it looks like at one point maybe it was two units yeah but now it's one and then the garage I think was its own

building and now is a my when I looked at the Stark County auditors website which shows the real estate and you owning it and everything 336 Portage and 208 Royer are on the same parcel of property meaning they are not divide they're not two different pieces of property right now even though they have two different addresses they're the same property okay um one issue I've got um I don't have any plans of what to what are your plans with respect to the structure? Are you just planning on taking out the doors and putting in a wall and keeping everything else as is in there or are you doing anything? Is that is that what your plan is? Yeah.

Okay. And yeah, that would really be just the wall. What about the the driveway? Um we have a the ordinance requires the driveway our driveways to be paved in the city. Now, obviously a lot aren't because houses have been grandfathered in or old ordinance is applied when those houses were built or driveways are put in. But whenever you do an improvement to a property now, you got to bring it up to what the ordinance requires. So, are you intending to do anything with the driveway that the part that is gravel? Is it going to be uh paved over or put concrete in or anything like that? Is there any plan to do that

tomorrow? I don't have enough money. So, not right now. Guess I'd be curious as a question back. Um, am I because the building was its own structure at one point, does that mean that it would need to meet these codes or is it like this is just kind of to your words like grandfathered into what it's always been?

There is Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, my my understanding is and somebody from the city can correct me or council can correct me if I'm wrong, but since you're doing an improvement onto that new structure now, things need to be brought up to the current ordinance. Um, and that's why we're here today because the fact that you want to do something to that separate building, you know, the law requires a twocar garage. Yeah. So, you're asking for a change a variance on the law. So, does anybody am I right in saying that or

So, the the zoning code as I'm reading it there, there's almost lacking an access there of the two. Um, if because this parking area is really separate part of the property, it I would have a hard time finding that nexus. I mean, that could be something that we address through if we were, you know, the board was inclined to seek an approval, we could uh entertain some conditions there is they do seem to be relevant since we're technically relocating parking on that. But, um, the way we read that zoning code, I don't we might be lacking a nexus. Greg, do you have a different position on that? We have our law director

related related related to the the current uh we'll just call parking spaces that are the current part of the property that utilizes parking spaces. Yeah. What's the what what's the question related to that? The part of the parking area is gravel right now. Um, and our ordinance requires driveways to be paved. So, if they have if we if they're going to improve on a part of the property, do they need to bring that up to code, too, or would they without a variance?

You know, I don't have an answer to that. Um, That's a it's a more it's a more complicated question than yes or no because it it doesn't have to you know the the zoning code the short answer is I don't have an answer but the reason I don't have an answer is the zoning code talks about uses the the the state of the parking space it doesn't necessarily mean a use right so and it's not necessarily a building or a structure. So, I don't think a nonconforming analysis would relate to however the current parking spaces are.

Okay. All right. Okay. Does anybody else have any questions? Clear as my typical lawyer, right? Well, I don't Yeah, I don't want to consider it or if we don't there's any issue about whether we have she would have to do that or not. I don't want to consider it. So I I do have a question or maybe a couple the the current door opening according to this as you said this it's 7 ft

which is not which is not according to you wide enough for your subcompact vehicle. It does not fit partially right because also the the step and and the opening is exactly as it is when you purchase the home. You've not done anything. It's not been widened or Okay. So, this has been a nonconforming structure for a while. Is that correct? I'm sorry. That's a more of a legal question. This structure has been nonconforming for a while prior to Miss Blire purchasing. Is that accurate? Okay. John, why don't you you go up there and just say your name and then for the record who you who you are. Yeah,

I don't want to answer over, but I think there's something that I might be involved with. My name is Robert Flyer Jr. I'm Madison's father, um, coowner, co-signer on the loan for the property. So, um, I pretty much know what her goals have been and everything else. Uh, one thing that I wanted to ask when you were talking about the code or the zoning code for requirement for the the driveway in terms of like the leadup to the structure that is now considered a garage. Um it's literally on the sidewalk. So there is no leadup driveway to that. If you look on the screen, we're putting it up on Google Maps now. You can kind of reference

right next to the door. This is a July 2024. Okay. Yeah. Correct. Um, so yes, that was the the the door opening. That door opening right there is about 7 ft wide. Okay. Um, plus or minus. I'm not telling you I went to the 16th of the tape measure, but yeah.

Um, so you can see right there, it is not has not has never housed a car. Um, I don't think golf carts are legal on the streets of North Kansas. golf cart might fit, but I don't think a car is going to fit in there of any type. And so really, that's what this was all about. It was the ability for her to utilize that structure for a home office or she is a fitness freak. She works out. She has equipment, barbells. They're not going to go into that house without risk of coming through the floor. The basement's totally, you know, it's just an ancient basement. So, you know, I've had three homes. Every one of them might have renovated, fixed up basement, created a home office, a home gym, that type of thing. That can't happen inside the house. This structure fits that need perfectly. Okay.

And again, it's she has all the numbers of the square footage and all. Um, that was the part about the concrete is is what I wanted. Yeah. And I don't know if it matters because of what our legal counsel has said, but what I was talking was that area of gravel right there. if that's part of the driveway, you know, under our current code, if you were building a new house right now, you couldn't do that. You know, you'd have to have it would have to be concrete or asphalt or something similar. Uh, but any I think it's a non I think that's a non-issue. I'm not going to consider that based on what I've been told here. Um, anybody else have any other questions? As an aside, yeah,

what you said about I don't think this matters. I just won't say it. You go with it. And I recognize to an extent I can go into that building and and do kind of what I want in there. Like I said, it's already got a lot of stuff. Part of the reason for deciding, yeah, I'm going to spend 200 give or take bucks to to file this and look is I do want to improve the curve appeal. So, this home has had a lot of work done to it, and I have a lot to do as well, but I'd rather have this look pretty. I don't know whose computer has this pulled up, but if you click on the see more dates underneath the address there, you can go and like you can see there in 2011, like I said, at least 2019. It's just like a cleansed building. And and I don't need to do that right now, but part of asking and seeing if this was a possibility was not to shake up everything. I didn't actually know that letters went out and then had a few neighbors talk to me today and I got really nervous. Um, but I do like I would not be saying I'm never going to pave that driveway if that was needed. Um, I think it would look a lot nicer that way honestly, but I just got my work cut out for me. So,

okay, that's all. All right. Thanks. Anybody else anything questions? Thank you. All right. Anybody else want to speak um in favor of or against or I don't you know whatever your position is. If anybody else wants to get up and speak, they can go ahead and approach the podium. Just make sure you state your name and everything and address. And address. Yeah.

All right. My name is Julian Gonzalez and I live at 33rd Street. I'm blessed to be Maddiey's neighbor. Um, I just want to say thank you all for giving us the opportunity to come together this evening for what I know is an important topic to Maddie and for the rest of the longtime surrounding neighbors. I also want to note that I have absolutely nothing against Maddie. As awkward as it is to have to even speak this evening, I hope that the concerns expressed to the city zoning commission tonight are seen as just that. None of us set out to make her life difficult. I truly hope that Maddie understands that our concerns come from a cautionary review of how previous failures to consider every aspect of a significant and permanent change to an existing structure can impact a neighborhood, not only today, but for years to come. Although what I'm about to share may seem somewhat irrelevant to some in attendance regarding this current variant request, I think it may help to expound on the reasons why those who are able to be here on such short notice with others wishing that they could have been here made the time to be part of the discussion. For those who may not have solid understanding of what has caused my willingness to speak this evening, I wanted to give a quick historical review of our experience with the property next to us at 3:36, which kind of goes along with the questions tonight. No, not not knowing like when the door was changed or why the structure was changed from a single floor level, which a normal garage is, to a buy level, which is pretty much what it is. There's like a step up. This was shared with Maddie back in November 2024 during one of our enjoyable chats. In 2020, our former neighbor Patty attempted to sell her single family property and listed it as a three-unit property. This followed years of her and relatives making

changes to the property without seeking permission from zoning or obtaining building permits. After logical review of the impacts to surrounding properties, should she have approached the city for permission prior to carrying out the investment and hard work, those plans would have surely been denied due to the zoning bylaw itself. This would have prevented years of difficulties which greatly impacted us as neighbors. I can't even I can't even I don't have enough time to explain that right now. We did our best though to be really cordial for years, but felt such tremendous relief when the city upheld zoning rules with regards to the notion of having the property sold. When the previous owner listed the property for sale as the three unit dwelling, we along with several other neighbors both on Portage and Ryer directly impacted came together and submitted the required petition to the city and zoning committee to object. We requested the city to uphold the zoning which stated the property property was a single family property. The additional dwelling created in the garage and the formal rent the former rental set up within the house which is probably what Matt is Maddiey's talking about. It looks like the house was divided up. She did that all on her own. Um, so the former setup within the house along with a large staircase between our houses were deemed violations per that zoning. Why did we as neighbors step up and stop the sale laced with violations? Since buying our home and our property in 2006, our neighborhood has morphed into a cluster of numerous rentals that pale in comparison to the curb appeal and the overall pleasant neighborhood feeling we once enjoyed. We understand times change and so does society. But as longtime taxpayers on forage and Royer who are proud home owners and do their best to keep their properties wellkept, we took

it upon ourselves to do our best to maintain what was left of the very atmosphere that brought us all here. None of us wanted another rental space and we're really grateful that the city saw the facts and agreed forcing the prior on Patty owner Patty to uphold the zoning code and return building structures to their original purposes, hence the garage. The city felt those requirements were met and we trusted that the matter was closed with the garage returned to a non-living space. I would like to quickly highlight an inaccuracy I believe to be true on the application hinting that this was ever anything but a garage per zoning. I may be wrong, but that's how I read it. We have nothing against someone paying taxes and owning property with which they can be creative with because we don't believe a city should have extensive overreach of privately owned properties. But there are guidelines and fun foundational rules in place for good reason. We all have to follow them and we all have had to alter plans that we've made of our own to ensure that it fell in line with the zoning guidelines. In an effort to refrain from involving ourselves in matters of a neighbor's life who we care for, we would assume a proper course of action, including permits and zoning requests, had been made and approved prior to any investment in materials and the commitment commencement of changes obviously happening. During the conversation I noted above, Maddie talked about ideas she had for the garage. And out of caution from the experience had before, I encouraged her to be sure her vision was approved by zoning and to acquire permits before investing a single penny into remodeling. I filled her in on what we had endured years prior. My guidance was intended for her own good, especially financially. What does everything I have shared up until now have to do with Maddie asking

to permanently alter the garage to be a home office? Perhaps it seemed harmless, but we would like to know what will happen should this property be sold again. How will the property property be listed? For example, if the overhead garage door, which unmistakably marks it as a garage, is permitted to be removed and replaced with a permanent wall, what is anyone new to the property going to make of this space? This factor along with amenities still in existence which the city from our understanding as those of us who originally submitted the original petition and request from our understanding originally was to enforce removal of since it was added in violation. half bath and a kitchen-l like area with stove hookup truly make for a confusing structural purpose easily leading to more attempts to use the space in ways we are already assured in the past wouldn't happen. This will likely create yet one more situation for the city to monitor and puts neighbors in an awkward position with none of us truly wanting to be involved in that. We are asking, what we are asking for is that the single family dwelling status our homes are zoned as be upheld now and in the future through decisions made today. Whether you approve or decline Mattie's request, we're just asking at the very least that you carefully set forth expectations or stipulations that will uphold the property single family status for today and the future. And we really appreciate your willingness to hear us out. Thank you. Right. Anyone else? Melanie J. Roll 308 Portage, North

Canton. Uh, this property for us this evening is the 336 Portage that we've been speaking of. Uh, the Stark County Auditor lists this property as having four bedrooms and three full bathrooms and lists 1915 as the year the house was first constructed. In July 2020, when this property was listed for sale, North Canton City Building Department mandated the home be returned to single family residential and the garage be restored to a residential vehicle garage, plus install a vehicle access door on that garage. The current owner purchased the property in March 2024. On April 11th, 2025, the North Canton Building Department issued three zoning violations to the current owner. Not securing a permit, renovating the garage into a living space, and nonpermitted use of property. On May 6th, 2025, the North Canton Building Department issued a notice of administrative warning to the current owner for not responding to the three violations that were issued April 11th, 2025. If the structure that was constructed as a garage for this property is used as a garage, the variance for covered parking spaces would most likely be moved. I wish to read from the August 5th, 2025, 2025 various requests by the current owner. This is the owner's description of the garage space. This structure, in her words, has its

own bathroom, kitchen, water lines, and separate electric bill. This description gives me pause, particularly a kitchen and a separate electric bill. What is the owner's intent? I ask that you deny this variance request. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?

Audrey Bond. uh 238 Portage Street Northwest. Um I am new to all of the information tonight, so I would like to share things that we in our property dealt with um adding light to the administration at the time that we purchased the property and what was required of us. Um so when we purchased our home, it had been a duplex and we had separate electric and a separate address. We were required by the city and the mortgage company to remove the small kitchen that was upstairs that was part of the apartment at that time before we could close on the home because it was required to be a single family home. So we did what was required to make it a single family home. Removing the plumbing, removing the lighting, changing it from a kitchen back into living area that it was supposed to be. The electric has stayed this in two separate accounts, which is not an issue because there's a billing address involved. we were required to contact the post office and have the second address removed as no longer existent from that location. Um, that was back in 2009. So, lots of things have changed since then. Um, and I don't know that I don't recall the exact details of what was required by the city, the county, the mortgage company, all of that. But having had a home that was a previous rental multiple family setting, that was what we had to do. We had to knock down the wall. Some of um I think putting in the garage doors was part of the previous owner's requirements to sell the home. Probably a similar situation. Um we have a wait room in our basement. we've done the work to to make a workout

area in our basement that is older um than this home at the time um of of being built. So, I know there are ways and means to create an office in your home and an exercise area in your home. Maybe not ideal. I I'm not crazy about ours. It's not what I would like either, but it follows the requirements of the city. We have a threecar garage that has electric to it that we could make the same request from. Um, but it's a garage, so that's going to stay that way until we would decide to do something different. So, I only share all of this um as part of consideration. I appreciate that she um I haven't met you formally, so hello.

I appreciate the work that you're that you're doing um to make it nicer and have more curb appeal. We don't want our street to be full of rentals. Um, you know, we're right by an elementary school. We want little kids safe. We want nice, safe areas to live and enjoy and hopefully spend more years here in North Canton. Um, we I'm just looking that we find some clarity, you know, not only for her, for us, and for the future of North Canton so that it continues to grow and be a place that is appealing to people with clear-cut guidelines. So, that's all.

Thank you. Anybody else? Good evening. My name is Sherry Brocker and I live at 119 Buyer. Lived there for 35 years. My house was built in 1911. I am not in favor of this. I'm getting flashbacks of a neighbor who is on the other side of Allison Place, which is near my house, came over and said to us one day, "You're going to see some construction people in your driveway because we're going to put up bedrooms. We're going to bed for our kids." Okay, that's fine. That's not a problem. Okay, construction was done. Everything looked good until one day I started seeing these strange cars in the driveway and I'm like, "That's not their car." And it would be there for a day and it would leave and it would come back again. And then another car, a different car would come. I did a little investigating and I talked to one of my friends who's here tonight. We figured it out. It was an Airbnb. It was not permitted by the city. I wanted to make sure that it was shut down because the traffic was bad on Allison. I cannot get into my driveway from Royer. I have to drive down Allison to get into my driveway. The traffic was terrible. The cars were parked there along the fence. It just wasn't a good thing. So, I don't think that having this way it is now is not going to work. I I I firmly believe that if the opportunity ever arose, she could might turn it into

an Airbnb. People have tried to do it before. And I have always gotten permits from the city. I put a six foot fence up. I got a permit. I got a new air conditioner. I did a permit. I did the right thing. I didn't hide from people or not answer a notice I got into the mail about a permit. I always did the right thing. So therefore, I highly hope that you turn this back into a garage. It is a garage. When you put a kitchen and everything into a garage, to me, it's a little bit more than that. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Anybody else? I'll be the last one. Okay.

I'm live at 300. I'm also a new homeowner, but only been there for about a year.

Thank you. Um, so my concern is the neighborhood. I don't want rentals coming in. I value the property. I don't want ton of rentals. We don't need changeover. We don't need Airbnb. My concern is the future. I'll probably live in that house until I die. Um, and I understand your concern is with the garage not being functional. I I bought my house. Um, great location. I have a threec car garage. It's just me, so I understand. I have a um lawn mower taken up three park spots. Um, so it's a I mean I think um the biggest concern probably should have been the person before you should have been followed through with the garage being changed over to a functional garage and probably the amenities that aren't typically in a garage should have been removed and that should have been followed up with with the code. I mean what garage has um an oven? You're not cutting wood and then checking on your pizza. you're not cutting wood and then, you know, flipping stakes. Um, so I feel like that should have been followed through maybe with code. Not sure really who would be following up with that before sale goes through, but I understand your concern with the garage door and the amenities getting removed before you leave. Um, but yeah, I don't feel like this should go through because she might not be there her whole life and who's going to be the one that falls up to make sure that the wall that gets put up where the garage door is gets taken down and who doesn't put a family in there next cuz they have everything they need. Um, they'll be able to cook dinner, wash dishes, everything. The electricity is already ran out to the garage. They can have their own bills and everything. So, my biggest concern is whoever move in next can do whatever they want. they have everything out, all the amenities they'll need out in that garage. That's my biggest concern is my future in that house and the neighbors.

Okay. Thank you. Uh I have some questions regarding the timeline here. I'm confused about exactly what has happened. So I have some questions for some people for the city and also for the applicant. Based on what was said by some of the neighbors here, was there an order to turn that back into a garage by the city?

There was. Included in the packet tonight is a case summary from the code forcement case number 20NC-000067. [Music] This was from 2020. Uh that case was found to have a number of violations through the main dwelling as well as the detached structure, right?

Also known as the garage being considered tonight. Um the main house had multiple dwelling units in it. The garage was found to have a dwelling um have been converted to a dwelling. some of the research of that detached structure, it was hard to determine what had been permitted and what had not been permitted. What we did know was the owner at the time, Patricia Jackson, had advised us what she did without a permit, her and her husband. And then was this turned back into a garage? It was. Yes. So then why why is there now stuff is there who turned it back into a non-g garage?

So I I'm hearing fill in any details too. Whatever. I'm hearing some confusion in there. When we closed this case, this was reverted back to a garage. A garage door was put on it. Um all of the living amenities that made it have our whole space was removed. Um, we still permit today to have bathrooms and garage. Therefore, we left the bathroom in there. The kitchen was removed at the time. However, there was some cabinetry permitted in there. And again, you can put cabinetry in your garage today. Okay.

Uh, that does not make it a kitchen. It there's a number of things that are required to have a legal kitchen. One is a permanent cooking facility. And that does not mean just an outlet. that is the actual typically it's a cooktop or a range that's permanently installed appliance that would qualify for that uh permanent cooking facility. So um in some cases it is as simple as removing that appliance and by law we have to um remove that designation as a kitchen. In this case it did not look like a kitchen when we closed it. I was uh involved in part of that closeout inspection and and do recall walking through the uh premises around the time frame of uh this code case here.

Okay. And then Mr. Bler, was anything were you did you guys do anything to it since you bought it? Did you add anything turn it into a kitchen or anything since? We have everything that was there is what's there? Okay. So, it's the same. We spruced up the inside of the building. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And there was two owners between you and Patricia Jackson as I understand. I believe there was two because the contractor bought it first then the investment firm.

The contractor is the one that did a lot of the the extra spruce like just sorry I'm talking of he they came in and just did a lot of surface pretty up of the place so that they could just sell it. And I believe that they're also the ones that made changes to the garage um to make it look nicer, too. So, okay. Okay. Um go ahead. Is there a stove currently in in this structure? Two. There's two stoves. There was a lot of stuff. There were No, there were two when we bought it. There are there were two. Yes. Correct. Are there two now? I sold them Facebook Market. So that no there are no stoves in in the the structure now

but you can't hook up stove. Okay I'm just asking or future. Well that's so trying to understand it's a little

we have we've granted variances with conditions in the past. Um I think we're allowed to do that under our ordinance. So but one of the questions I have is and obviously it's against the law. It's against the ordinance to have this be anything other than single family. Um, is there a way to if we granted a variance to put a condition on that uh this would we could revert this structure would have to be reverted back to a garage if it was sold. Are we allowed to do that or is that too are we going too far there from a legal standpoint?

Is that correct? Yeah, Greg, I don't know if you can answer that or anybody, but I I can't necessarily answer that because you have the application in front of you and the application is to grant a variance for the parking um going beyond the uh you know the four corners of the application so to speak and touching the garage and putting um restrictions on the garage. Um I don't know if that would be a um permitted um requirement. Okay.

It isn't the fact that it's zoned single family enough of a restriction if it's sold. I mean the next person that buys it if they start running out the garage, wouldn't they be cited? Wouldn't they be Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I guess but we I'm just trying to figure out how we avoid the same problem. Not that this owner is going to do that, but that a future owner could do it. Maybe maybe I'm find trying to find a problem, you know, a solution in search of a problem. I don't know. But I don't want these neighbors to have to go through this again,

right? I understand that. It just feels like she, the new owner, is being punished based on bad things that happened in the past and and maybe what happened in the future. And that Yeah, that's a tough place to be. Could we put a condition on that? Uh they strip the address and utility off of that residence. I mean, in my home garage, I I have a gas line. I can hook up a stove. It's for a furnace, but a lot of people do have stoves in their garage for Italian kitchens for canning. Does it have its own electric stove? It does not. That's where you get the address is very

Yeah. Now I the stripping of the address I believe is we do not have a mechanism for doing that. Well, you have to contact the post office. Yeah. um or but you could um in terms of combining utilities that could be perhaps something that could be done

that if if I may about that. We have not done that because it requires the electric company to hire a contractor to come out to rewire it and put it back together and put the box back together. So we to like at the time when we purchased because we were in a similar situation they deact the post office deactivated that address. So all it was all it is on record. A all my electric bills are in my name. It just the service address is split because they had the two boxes split. So it can't be in anyone else's name.

It's our property. It just has a service location because of how they had broke it apart. But it would be upwards of the last time I asked, which was several years ago, to have all of that done was over $1,500. I already paid two electric bills. So, um, that has just not worked into our budget to do that. Yeah.

Um, we knocked out the walls. We took out all the stuff to meet the code for our single for to make our home a single family home. That was not required at the time. um which I understand the asking um but with the economy and everything else that goes wrong in houses um it the bill can't be separated because it's one property with two service locations if that makes sense and chairman if I may further on that yes

in this case we have a detached structure so they would in addition to all that the current property owner would be required to um well she has some resources to wire that panel across the way. But because we have two detached structures, there would be additional wiring they would have to cause to be done on their own valition in addition to all of what was just described. So, this one's a little different and would cause a bit more. Do you ever get mail to that detached structure that mailbox or anything? No. I didn't even know if the address

like existed. I just knew it was this weird thing of like I on my electric account I have two different things I click on that's I'm allowed to speak they did get mail when Patty's parents lived in there they got mail and the mailman just knew to put it in Patty's box like it was that convoluted so I mean the point the main point is whether there's an address there or not it's one parcel one family can live on that pro you can't have one family in one structure and one in the other Yeah,

under our zoning there's no way that's allowed. Um uh so it doesn't matter whether there's one address address or two or one or two electric hookups, one family on that entire parcel. Um that means you and a spouse, you spouse children. Um any if there's anything addition to that, then we're Yeah. Um yes, ma'am. Has anybody from the city been in that structure garage since the uh first uh various u u complaints were made? I have been. Have you been in the structure?

Yeah, Mr. Hus the code enforcement officer. And what did you find when you were in the structure? When I was in there, um there was a bathroom. There was a hookup for a washerd dryer, but there was no washer dryer. There was no kitchen at the time that I was in. Um, where the garage door was supposed to be, there was a wall um in place instead of the garage door, so there's no access to the outside. And then there was cabinets.

So washer and dryer, too. So even more of a living space. Yeah, but again, I mean, I guess I go back to this. I mean, and I know what's happened in the past, and believe me, nobody wants that. I I don't live far from all of you, and I don't want that either, right? The rules are the rule. The rules are one family. And if more than one family is living in there, y'all are going to notice and we're going to be back and you're going to say something. And these people, these people are going to be hearing from you.

Do that though. We've been next door. We've been through this twice. And I should Can I just reiterate to Maddie? I am not trying to rain on your parade here. She's a go-getter. She literally jacked a huge cement pad up herself and cleaned that yard up. Like, she's done amazing things. My only concern is for the future. the more this building looks iffy that there's going to be problems after Maddie, which I pray she doesn't go anywhere anytime soon, but the more this building is allowed to to maintain the living dwelling look to it that it just creates problems because people are not honest. They don't ask for things that they, you know, and then we as neighbors, I don't want to like rat on people and I've tried to like stay out of it and I gave her a precautionary. We had a conversation. I don't know what happened, what she pulled, what she didn't as far as permits for zoning. All I know is in the future we just like we're exhausted with the topic and and our street frankly Royer Portage is disgusting with rentals at this point. Even West Maple, our area, we are trying so hard to keep our little area look beautiful because it just looks trashy. And I understand that and that's a different topic and that's something else that you have to talk to your elected officials about.

You know, our issue here is are we going to require them to put in a twocar garage to improve on this building or not? That's the main wall up. They don't even have access to outside now. There's already a wall up. Ben just said there's a wall up. They don't even have access to put their car in there if the car. Well, hold on everybody. We got to talk one at a time.

But yeah, I mean that's the that's the thing. So, and you know I if if and I guess the question I have for the applicant is all you're trying to do is put a door or what are you putting? I don't know exactly what you're putting where that garage door is. A door. Do door and a window. Literally nothing where the barn door is. Literally, I framed in the inside of that little 7 foot opening. Okay. Like a drywall holder. So, you've already framed it in literally just for that purpose. Okay. Didn't realize that this was, you know, she said at the beginning that there's some

What's the point? Why don't you just leave the garage door there? Is there an insulation issue with the garage door or is it pretty drafty? tried it out this winter if I if I I was speaking don't even know this but I ran the electric and everything that's in there and my bill was almost 400 bucks that month and I went I cannot afford that. So the goal is just to insulate it a bit better because I recognize that on one hand I can use it as is and make it as nice as I want in there but that's that's the reasoning is just practical functionality. Well, you know, I guess if there's a less invasive way of insulating by keeping that door there, we wouldn't even have to be here. We wouldn't even need a variance.

Yeah. This is a difficult one for us because we want to be help you because you're the future of this city and we want to take care of you, but we I have to I understand the concerns of the neighbors and I and one of the things legally when we're considering a variance is is there a less invasive way. Is there a way to do this without needing a variance? Is there a way to insulate that and keep the door there? I know I'm sure that Bill still be better. We can put a wall in. Um God curb appeal wise if there's just a solid wall there that close to the curb. I don't know. You know, I'm just trying to figure out a better, you know, we have to consider this as a board and consider like is there a way to do this without needing a variance? Does this classify as a shed in any way, shape, or form? Could could it be changed to the definition of of that garage being a shed? Therefore, if it was sold, nobody could live in it or converted to a living quarters because if you like meet the specs of something like that,

would that be a way around, especially when it doesn't fit a car, right? That's what I'm thinking. Like because people can put a shed in their backyard and right, you can make an shed or do whatever you want there. Home office. Like are we just overthinking this? Is it that simple to change on the um on county reg registration that that that isn't a garage, it's a shed? Yeah. I don't know. I I think if you do any kind of improvement to this building, whether it's a shed or a garage or whatever,

we got a ordinance. We got to come up the code on the ordinance without invariance, I think. So, yeah, I didn't take the pledge, but may I speak? What's your name? John Ro 3808 Street. Yep.

The issue is the matter of how many barages the city would like to see a single family plot have. I assume that's why the ordinance was more recent because there are a lot of onecar garages in the city. Somewhere they realized that most families have at least two cars and that it was a good idea to make that a requirement. So we have a situation here. There was already an order in place to return this to a garage. Is that still enforced? That's my one question I have. So that's hanging out there. If there was an order issued that this had to be returned to be a garage, why hasn't that been enforced? The second thing is we've gone now from a situation where this plot has a potential one garage. Now it has no garages. So, it's going exactly in the opposite way that the people that put the ordinance in for two uh twocar garage wanted to happen. So, isn't this going backwards? It's not about whether this is an Airbnb or whether this is a a a workout room or whatever it is. The issue is the parking. Why Why aren't we insisting that this be returned to a a single car garage at least? That's all I want to say.

Yeah, I guess that's a question I had. I mean, if there was an order to make it into a garage, how how do we enforce that now? Why what's going on with that? And I asked that out of ignorance, so I don't know how that works.

And that's kind of why we're here tonight is this came to us as as a complaint. Our code enforcement officer responded to that. That's the first The city's been advised that we are in conflict of this order. The way the ordinance works is each one of these complaints are separate. So the complaint from 2020 that was addressed that was closed. So um from our understanding that has continued in compliance. Well, up until just a few months ago, we were advised there were some other violations. Benicus responded, verified that no, there are some violations that exist. He had issued um the procedural requirements, the first written notices, the administrative warning uh that was issued as part of that. And before because of the requirements of the garage, we could not give any kind of permit for the wall being framed in the place. So we're here tonight. So the requirements of the parking are alleviated from the the current owner on that to proceed with the permitting.

Yeah. to answer your question that re yeah a variance is a is a request to ch you know go outside you know change give a special exception to somebody for a special circumstance variances are usually granted in exceptional circumstances um with the older housing we have this comes up a lot in our city so that's why we're here and that's what we're considering yes I have a question so I mentioned I'm single I have a big house you have a big cost. Is there a reason, and I might be crossing border, I don't know what the rules are, but is there a reason you want to have your home office outside opposed to one of the four bedrooms that you have? Well, um, you know, I don't want to get I know

that's kind of irrelevant. I don't want to get you, we've been here a while already. I mean, I understand what you're saying. That's that goes into somebody's personal choices of their property, and I that's really not what we're here for today. So, let's Yeah, but go ahead.

Okay. And I I am not trying to step on anybody's toes when it comes to whoever's job it is to go into a building. So Patty was told that she had to return the building to usage of her garage. Again, I'm not I'm not trying to like be disrespectful, but I as the person next door and all the neighbors that went through the months of what we went through to see this through, I have to be honest, I feel a little let down with this process. People keep saying that it was approved and closed out, but I'm sorry, it's not closed out. If you are approving a building to go back to function as a garage and the door that was put in there doesn't even fit today's cars to me it's not closed out. You have no the next the next buyer that goes to drive their car in and there's 6 in gapped over that wall is plenty wide broad enough that a proper garage door fitting today's cars could fit into the garage. So, sorry if I'm like out of line with that, but you keep saying the fact the matter was closed out and it wasn't closed out because now we have a new owner two owners later that still can't park a car in the garage and it may not even be deep enough to park the car because they allowed the step up that was built into the garage where this non-kitchen and nonb is that took some of the depth out of the garage. So, no, I don't feel the matter was closed out. Like, we're we're dancing around the fact that I personally believe that some ball was dropped with this. And I understand some garages have kitchens and a and a bathroom or whatever. If the garage has room, extra room for amenities, have at it. But if you can't fit a car, a single

car in that garage because of the amenities, partly the reason it's not closed out. I don't think it was dealt right and now we have this to deal with. And again, what is Maddie to think of that? Like, what else is she to do with it? Can't fit her car in it, so she's going to make other plans. Like, that's what I'm saying. This whole problem, I just feel like things have been very poorly followed up with and very poorly dealt with. And it's not a closed matter. It's still very it feel very much open at this point. Are there is there something happening that's upsetting or is she

not with Maddie? No. And like I've said time and time again. Our concerns are basically what might happen in the future. If this would have been a B&B after she originally told me, yes, I will admit I had problems with that. I don't want a stream of strangers coming. I partially got rid of my personal but that's not happening now. That's not happening now. There I didn't know if it was going to be turned into a rental. The the issue at this point is future owners. What are they to make of this building the way this rigomearo has left it? I hope I'm not being disrespectful.

No, I understand. I understand your concerns. Um, I understand everybody's concerns and I, you know, I'm very sympathetic to the applicant and what she's trying to do. And like I said, I mean, we need people like her to move into the city and improve these houses, especially the older ones,

you know. Um, I personally, and I'm just speaking for me, not for the board. I'm I'm concerned. I I just wonder if there's a better way to do this where a variance wouldn't be necessary where there's a better way to insulate and keep the door there. You know, I don't know. I'm not a contractor. I just wonder if there's a less um there's a way to do this without needing a variance. And I think the way to do it is to insulate the inside of it. So, that makes me wonder about makes me leaning against branding it myself. Um, and it's I got to be honest, this is a tough decision for me. Um, I'm struggling with this one, but the Is anybody from the city have anything else to say?

It's just I mean, I agree. I think it's tough because you don't want to punish somebody that's trying to improve the property for something that's going to be sold in the future. That's not fair. And I don't know if that's even your job to to convey that. Like maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Um it's very difficult. But I I I al kind of think this this falls into the future. If if we're going to look at something like this, what what about the sheds that are out there that that is the trend right now

that everybody is turning into all these different little hobby things? in their yard. I mean, are we going to have to, you know, pave a driveway to their yards now um for for for making personal uses out of it or or whatever? I mean, to me, it potentially can Yeah. open a can of rooms. I think our ordinance would require, you know, I think that's we have to look at our ordinance for that, but that right now our ordinance kind of require does is not flexible that way,

right? Um or I mean some of the older properties that you know if if required a twocar garage that they don't technically have the land to put it there by ordinance. Yeah. So I I I mean it is a really slippery slope in my opinion.

I would say I I agree with everything you've said. It's difficult. Maddie is someone that is this is the next generation. We want young home owners to come in, make a commitment, purchase a property, improvement, improve that property. Um, I hear what you're saying too. I mean, the city was lax. It was. And I could say we are a different staff today. And I also feel for all the rentals. That's why we created the rental registration program. You know, when people said we shouldn't have done that, but we created that so that we could get in, we could identify what are rentals, what are, you know, owner occupied and make sure that we're inspecting them and we have a registry and and of them. Um, but I can say that this is a better staff now with the city and it won't what happened back then would never happen again, but you know, I know you're concerned. I mean, you know, this staff may not always be here and you're looking at the future and Patty may not always own it. Um, so it's it's a difficult one

and it's also not fair to all you from what you've been through too. So, I mean, it is very difficult. When I joined the city, it was back in 2017 with Patrick Dioro. When we did find out about that, we were like, what is going on there? I heard it was a family member that was living in it and they were renting it. How many how much rent were they trying to get out of one property? Um yeah. Is there anything in the code or ordinance that says that that garage door has to open be functional? Could you just build the wall inside the garage? That's what I was suggesting. A false wallate that it be removed when you move out.

Yeah. I don't you know I don't know like I'm not a contractor but I was But what a lot of the things we're talking about the law does not we're not allowed to look at as a board. But one of the things we have to look at is is there a better way to do this without needing a variance and that is kind of what that's why I've been I'm asking about that um because I think there might be a better way here or another way another not a better way but another way because that's what the law says we just have to look at another way uh that where a variance is not necessary. Uh so um anyone else from the board have anything? No.

Yes, sir. And we're we're going to wrap this up, I think, pretty soon, but go ahead. Okay. Just one last comment. So, what the request here is, not only do they not have to put in a twocar garage, but it's okay to eliminate a garage. That's that's what it doesn't matter about this garage door and kitchen and all that. You're eliminating a garage and okaying not having to replace it with anything covered. So, it seems to me that it's pretty obvious. Why not grant the variance with the condition that the garage be turned back into a garage? Because they already talked about that saying that was over.

So, at least there'll be a garage and in instead uh only we're here on whether they to grant a variance on whether they don't have to build a twocar garage. If we deny the variance, they the property can stays as is and they can't improve the outside of the property, but you know, the variance would and correct me if I'm wrong, a variance would not be necessary to in go on the inside and insulate that better and do whatever they need to. So, I see what you mean.

Um, you know, as far as whether the the codes being enforced or not, that's not our job here. That comes later. So that'll be dealt with between the applicant and the city later on. To me, it's a matter of how many garages do you want for a single family property to have? Zero or two? That's the way I see. I know we all probably are talking in circles and our brains hurt now. And Jane,

I will say and then I'm done too because I just can't any longer. And thank you all for being here. And I'm sorry I spent your night. I didn't I did not know this was all going to be a thing. um is that again it's very hard to know based on the the property. It sounds like there's confusion and records and who really knows? We have the reports from the neighbors and like this whole idea will make it back into a garage. Part of me is like when was it turned into a garage? Like I my understanding of the structure was that it was its own after Patty and my home didn't even have the covered parking to begin with. So I guess it's all just whatever.

Yeah. I, you know, again, um, if our job is to approve or deny a var approve or deny a variance request here tonight. As far as the code enforcement and all that, that would come later. Um, the twocar garage thing, you know, that's the law now. Obviously, when this house was built, most people didn't even have cars. And if they did, they had one. And that's why these older houses have these little garages that could fit little cars in them. But that's irrelevant also. So, um, anything else from anybody?

I I I almost feel like how no matter what we say, whether we grant this or not, this has no impact upon what the resident may want to do in terms of insulating the inside of the structure. I mean it's it's almost as if denying it and accepting it are the same actual decision if we deny it

because I mean Mr. Ro keeps saying and he's right that the issue before the before this board is to grant the variance away from a twocar covered structure and and yet all the conversation for the most part has been about something other than that. I I you know I almost feel like the way this this is all gone that that it doesn't even matter what we say because it doesn't have Yeah. Please

can I interject because I think everybody has that's correct and that that's been my understanding as well but I do want to ask a question uh with a variance right we're determining uh you know whether to grant or deny and I and I agree with that but does the ZBA go into private deliberations to make that determination because you're right you're you're supposed to adopt or grant or deny and based upon on your decision to grant or your decision to grant or deny is based upon findings of fact. Those findings of fact can be determined or not determined in what's known as private deliberations. So think just like a jury. Does again this is having never been working with you guys before. Does the ZBA go into private deliberations for these? Have you ever done that?

We we've never done that. We we we might discuss in open what our we might deliberate in the open uh which is what I think we're doing right now, but we do not go into private uh deliberations and then we we call for a vote. Okay. You have that you you have that option to privately deliberate if you so choose. Um but I'm you know I'm at your mercy. If you'd like uh any type of legal evaluation or legal guidance or legal analysis, I can assist you. whether that's now or whether that's in private deliberations. So, well, yeah, I'd like to hear your take on this for sure if you can if you could if you have anything. Now,

um from everything that I've heard, all the testimony that I've heard, uh this home was constructed before the uh 2013 ordinance. So, this is a pretty obvious statement. They would be grandfathered into that parking. So the applicant's initial request is I'm seeking a variance for the required number of parking of covered parking spaces. Um that would be grandfathered in. It seems like maybe and this is for the applicant to decide. It seems like what the applicant wanted is more or less a modified application to have a variance that this quote garage is a or qualifies for or you know grant a variance that that garage can be used as a home office. Is that and I'm asking the applicant is that is that something that you've wanted to modify your application for?

Follow question. He wants to know if is your variance will really turn this building into a into an office. Turn a garage into an office. Yeah, I guess. I don't know.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember how we worded it too. Um the the long and short of it with the varian so it was grandfathered in as one covered parking space and current modification would require two under the current zoning I believe. So, we're grandfathered in at one. And our point was in reality, we don't have one. There's it was And it was funny that he used the word shed earlier because my description was kind of a glorified shed. This what the attorneys, the legal law director is asking is,

do you want to modify your variance to turn this into a home office from a garage? I think he's trying to say that you asked for the wrong variance. Instead of asking for a variance from two parking spaces, he's asking if you want to do a variance to turn this garage into an office. Right. But I think they're intertwined, right? Because if you do a new construction, then the parking thing becomes an issue. So, it's kind of an intertwined Yeah.

request. Yeah. I don't know if that answers your question, Greg, but it sounds like the they're asking for both. You need to ask for both. No, the the the request the the the variance application says, you know, I'm seeking a variance for the required number of parking spaces. Their home, their single family home is grandfathered into that. So, they would not need a variance for that. But, additionally, within the application, they make mention of a home office, right? Right. So, are they are are are they saying that the home off like

Yes, I I guess that makes sense because what we were we know we're grandfathered in with the singlecar garage, but our point is it's not a garage because it's not it can't house a car. So, that would be a part of it. Yes. If we if we turned it in to a home office, then we would need the variance on the required covered parking. No, that would not.

No. So whether the garage exists or not, whether it's one car garage or doesn't even exist, you are grandfathered into the requirement to have two covered parking spaces because your home was built prior to September 22nd, 2023 when that ordinance went into effect. So you're free of that. So, if if your if your application had only said that one sentence, we would have turned you away and said, "Well, you don't even need a a variance because you're not, you know, you're not um your grandfathered in, but because of the additional information within your variance, you know, in the testimony that was presented, it's not about a parking space of that home. Now, now you're basically asking, can I have a variance to operate an office space, correct, in that in that structure? Yes, I think that would be I think that would be correct.

Okay. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be pulling teeth. It's it's difficult being remote and, you know, not seeing everybody's interactions and their their manorisms and and so it's difficult. So, I I I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be uh pull teeth here. I just wanted to be clear. Um, okay. If that is the case and they're, you know, they're asking for a variance to have that what used to be a garage to have that as an office, um, an office space. Um, do you want my legal recommendation related to that request? Uh, yeah, I'd like to hear it.

So, a home office can only be in a dwelling. that structure. I'm just going to call it garage cuz it's the simplest way that everybody's kind of referred to it as that garage can by definition of the zoning by definition of the code cannot be a dwelling because it's zoned I don't know if it's zoned R50 or R7 R70 but it's only single family. So any home occup any home office or home occupation on that parcel can only be within the actual home the single family home. So, if they're asking for a variant, if they're asking for a variance to operate a home office out of what used to be the garage, I would recommend denying that because that would not be within the dwelling. The garage is not a dwelling.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, anything else? Anybody from the board? Which I if if I may. Yeah. He could not see these pictures, right? what was up there of the garage. So the term garage is really loose

and that you Yeah. And that you assume. So that's really what it all boils down to. The garage is not really a garage. It's not deep enough at the ground level to pull a car into. It doesn't fit a car. Um so that's that's where the variance went. And I guess what we were of belief we were we were trying to do was if we enclosed that door to make use of that of that garage space, if you will, um then the parking bearing is come in because really we're taking away the quote unquote covered garage space, but it's not a covered garage space because you can't fit a car. Does that make more sense? I think the pictures that they had on the on the monitors would have helped you maybe see that a little better.

No, because No, I I appreciate that. Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I have some pictures of the property and as as crude as this sounds, I was on Google Maps and I I did see that there was a Google map uh screen view or street view from August of 24. So, I have a very good understanding of the property. But at the end of the day, the only relevant the only way that you can operate a a home office would be in the um in the home in the you know on the first floor, second floor, basement, whatever that may be. It would have to be in the actual single family residence. And that's my that's my so as as a question of law, I would say you have to deny the variance. Now, the board could in theory disregard that and could grant a variance to operate the home office. And again, I'm kind of I I you're free to, you know, a variance is a request. Let me break the law. Let me break the zoning code. But I would advise against that based upon the plain language of the zoning code.

Yeah. I guess I'm just and I that just that's another reason that I just think there's a better way to to do all of this um to put a home office somewhere inside the structure. There might be a way to do that. I haven't heard about why that isn't possible. So I'm I mean it's just me speaking. I don't know about the other board members. I'm inclined to deny that um the applicant can come back with something else later um if if or could work something else out with the city, but that's kind of where I'm heading with this. Um, anybody else have anything to say or I guess I Yeah, I don't know.

I feel like we're drifting so far from what Muire's application is, but what is the definition of a home office? And I don't mean to be like obtuse, but like it's a workspace, not a post. Sure. No, but there's a legal definition. Will you receive clients in there or is this just some place where you I work remotely. Okay. What it is? I don't want to give I don't want to give the neighbors PTSD, but if you literally just walked out there with your laptop and just started working. I know people did that before. I know. I'm not suggesting she should do that,

but like if not for this request, they wouldn't have gotten the letters. And I mean, they probably I take my little phone calls when I'm doing yard work. Like part of me is like, how did I even do this? I thought I was following the steps, but I not sure. All right. Well, time been here a while. I'll entertain emotion one way or the other. put in a motion to deny. All right, I I will second that. Go ahead and call the roll. Miss Pinger, why do I have to

cuz I am conflicted. Well, I go ahead. I I I will vote to deny I vote to deny the marriage. Now, Mr. Ziger, for the records, vote. So, Mr. Stalker, uh, I'm going to vote to deny. Mr. McGinness, Miss Cleinger, I guess. No.

All right. So, the variance uh application is denied. Um, I hope though that something can be worked out here. Um, this is probably the toughest decision I've ever had as a board member. Um, so I'm sorry that we could not grant it, but I hope that everybody can work this out in some other way. Um, I I think there's another way to do this personally. Um, with that said, um, any other business to come before the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. And that just to be clear, sorry because I I'm I'm sorry everyone. I wanted to just verify that that motion to deny was based on the modified application

for a home office. Correct. I thought you were denying We're denying them. We're denying the request for a variance for a home office and also for or to not have to do a twocar garage. Well, they are grandfathered into that two-car garage. Okay.

So, ju just just so the applicant has some understanding what they can and can't do. I would, you know, I know we voted and and it was denied and everything, but I I I tried to chime in and the the motion was to deny the the modified application which included a home office. They're a you are able to park your cars in that parkway or or you know, parking space area. Yeah, we I don't think anybody's saying otherwise with that. Okay. Sorry, Ted. I wanted to clarify. Okay. Yeah. So, at this point in time, she has to leave everything the way it is right now to be in compliance.

She can't touch the home office. That's that's not for we denied the variance. So, whatever that's something they're going to have to work out with the city cannot be done. Yeah. So, with with regard to that building, so if I may, I've got a question. Greg, are you saying in in your legal analysis here that if the current owner so chooses, they can convert this single car garage into say her personal fitness studio? That is a that's a whole another question. I I'm not

I'm not prepared to advise that. I I was I was just trying to clarify the motion so that we knew what we we denied. Um because that that's why I had asked the applicant, you know, are you you know what are are you also seeking the home office? Um so I wanted it clarity that in in that regard and I also wanted to provide clarity to the applicant that you know they are able to you know they don't have to comply with the the two parking they're grandfathered in. Is there do we have a definition? Okay. meaning it me meaning they I know there

there was some discussion about you know do they have to tomorrow go build a twocar garage and I know that sounds absurd but no they would not have to they are in they are grandfathered that was I know that was never one of the questions the the commentary was that in reality we have a zero car garage because a car can't fit in it so it's kind of a glorified shed we were trying to figure out what we could do there that's the home office aspect Looks like a garage. It must be a garage, right? All right. Anyway, do I have a motion to adjurnn? Because we we've we have done what we all we can do tonight. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. All those in favor say I. I. I. Okay, we're adjourned.