City Council - Special Meeting

Planning Commission's approval of MP6-25 planning docket AP3-26. The order of procedure for tonight's hearing is set out in detail in our city code. In brief, we will start with a staff report. Next, the applicant or appellant will be asked to provide testimony. Next, the public will be asked to provide testimony. testimony will be first will first be taken from those. It's okay. We'll wait just a minute. The public will be asked to provide testimony. Testimony will first be taken from those testifying in support of the application, then from those testifying in opposition to the application. The applicant appellant will then be given time to respond to and or rebut any evidence presented. After the staff report and after people testify, counselors may pose questions to the mayor to be addressed to the person who testified or to staff to clarify any information that was conveyed in the testimony. Lastly, I will ask everyone who signed up in advance to testify first in order in which they signed up. Then I will ask if anyone present at the civic hall would like to testify. And then I will ask anyone who is on Zoom who has not testified but would like to testify to do so. Once the city council has heard from everyone and the city council is satisfied, it has all the information it needs to render a decision, the city council will close the hearing and councelor Chennith will be here in less than 5 minutes. So that's good. Um, deliberations will occur during agenda item number three in consideration of ordinance number 5147. We wish to hear from everyone who wants to testify. However, we request that you refrain from repeating testimony already given by someone else. If you agree with what someone before you has said, but you also want to ensure you have legal

standing in the public record, please provide your testimate testimony indicating you concur with what has pre previously been said. Public testimony will be limited to three minutes. We will time the testimony and provide you with a visual warning when there is one minute remaining. Since this is a legal process for considering a land use decision, we need you to state your name and address for the public record so you can receive a written notice of the city council's final decision. We ask that you keep your comments um succinct, sorry, that's a hard word for me to say, and relevant to the discussion. A staff report was published seven days before the hearing and it identifies all the applicable criteria. Testimony, arguments, and evidence must be directed towards those criteria or other criteria in the plan or land use regulation which the person believes to apply to the decision. Failure to raise an issue accompanied by statements or evidence sufficient to afford the decision maker and the parties an opportunity to respond to the issue precludes appeal to the board based on that issue. Failure of the applicant to raise a constitutional or other issues relating to proposed conditions of approval with sufficient specific specificity to allow the local government or its designate to respond to the issue will preclude an action for damages in circuit court. This public hearing is a quasi judicial hearing to consider ordinance number 5174. This ordinance is for docket AP-3-26, an appeal of the planning commission's decision regarding docket AP1-26. That was an appeal of condition of approval number five in the planning director's decision for minor partition MP6-25. The vacant property is located east of the Easterly of Northwest Orchard Avenue tax lot R4415310

0. The applicant is Doug Hurl from McMenville Industrial Promotions. The public hearing is open and as a reminder following the staff report we will hear from the applicant appellant then public testimony will be limited to three minutes per person. Does anyone wish to object to the jurisdiction of the city council to hear this matter? Does any counselor wish to make any disclosure or abstain from participating or voting on this application? Have any counselors visited the site? So, three Takulski, Gary, and Mayor Morris. Does any counselor wish to discuss their visit to the subject site? Does any counselor need to declare any contact prior to this hearing with the applicant? any other party involved in this hearing or any other source of information outside of staff regarding the subject of this hearing? Councelor Cunningham.

Um uh I used Hogerberg Rutder Cal and Kate and I have discussed uh like personal stuff over the phone. I don't know if that is pertinent or not. Not about this particular. Nope. Not about this. Okay. Um, mayor, if I can just interject for a process. Uh, our attorney, land use attorney is on Zoom. She can't show her video. Is there a way to It's locked down?

She needs to get out and then come back in because it's not working. I keep asking her to start her video. I I can try that. But um I do want to um say that the the just described uh communication is is does not qualify as an exparte communication. Although it's very much appreciated that that you talked about it. Thank you. I'm going to just go out and go back in in about 10 seconds. I'll be right back. See if this works. We'll give her a minute.

Sorry, Mayor. I didn't mean to interrupt, but she's here to help you with process as well.

Okay. I wanted to give her a moment to get on there. Not okay. Well, she can hear us, so we'll keep going. Um, next is will community development director Richards please give a presentation of the land use application. All right. So, good evening mayor and counselors. I am just realizing that this is your first quasi judicial public hearing as as your new body makeup as a council. So, if you have questions about process, please feel free to utilize uh Melissa Ryan. She is our land use attorney and is on the line to help us through that. But, uh tonight you're looking at ordinance number 5174 as you described. This is an appeal from uh McMinnville Industrial Promotions, otherwise commonly known as MIP. They're not appealing the decision necessarily because they've had an approval decision. They are appealing condition of approval language. I believe you have a copy of their appeal application as part of the um meeting packet tonight and it was I'd like to say it was nice to see the brevity but the brevity was pretty brief. Um so anyways the history of this process in terms of how this has come to you is MIP applied for a minor partition on October 13, 2025 that was deemed complete on November 12th, 2025. Why this is important to you is we are actually under statutory guidance in terms of when we c when we have to make a city decision uh and you are the final decision maker. So this you are the final piece of making that decision within this statutory guidance. So this is called a type two uh planning application. What that means is that

it's a planning director decision with notice. We give notice to surrounding property owners that we're looking at this so we can collect their comments and then we also give notice to our partners so that they can provide their comments as well. Uh typically when we give notice to our partners they send in comments that we then use or conditions of approval. Um we don't normally have a public hearing with this type of uh project. We need to issue our decision in terms of the administrative decision within 45 days of deeming the application complete. And then they have the opportunity to appeal the director's decision to the planning commission and they have the opportunity to appeal the planning commission decision to the city council which they have done. We then need to make that decision within 120 days. They have the opportunity to extend that decision-making deadline. They can extend it. We cannot. That's statutory law. they have extended it to April 11th. So, um, as I said, the director's decision was issued on December 23rd, 2025. So, we met the 45day deadline to issue a decision. Um, and we issued it as an approval with conditions. the conditions being um comments and conditions that were requested by our partners. Our partners being McMill Water and Light, the public works department, uh the fire district, and other partners that participate in reviewing construction and land use. MIP appealed the director's decision on January 7th, so they have 15 days to appeal it. and they appealed it relative to the language of condition of approval number five. Uh in the original decision document that the director issued that uh condition of approval number five uh they had an issue with it in terms of the requirement to build the full street width of Miller Street and then also putting the responsibility of encumbering the neighboring property uh for their proportional share on MIP. And I'll go through what that looks like. Um the director's decision was appealed to

the planning commission who conducts a public hearing and then they then render a decision. Uh staff met with MIP representatives to discuss their concerns. Agreed with their appeal. We agreed that they that their appeal was correct. The city did not have the authority to require the full street nor could we nor did we have the authority to require them to exact the proportional share on the neighboring property. Uh so staff brought recommended amended language to the planning commission public hearing so we could get that memorialized that amended condition of approval that happened on March 19th to address their concerns that was in their appeal. So we had revised condition of approval language for both number five and we provided a new condition of approval uh conditional approval number 10. At the public hearing, MIP legal council provided testimony that MIP was also not happy with other aspects of the condition of approval language, spec specifically the requirements for sidewalks. Um that is in conditional of approval number five and conditional of approval number 12. So sidewalks associated with Miller Street and with Orchard Avenue, which would be a new street for this development. Uh the planning commission discussed MI and and the copy of that um that testimony was provided to you as part of the meeting packet tonight as well. So you've got the whole record as it's traveled up the chain. The planning commission discussed MIP's concerns with city staff and legal counsel and they voted to approve an amended decision for minor petition 6-25. That's the first minor petition decision that addressed some MIP's original appeal concerns, but they elected not to move forward with their request to remove the requirements for sidewalks in condition of approval number five and conditional of approval number 12 based upon the criteria that's in the code. MIP then appealed the planning commission's decision on April 1, 2026.

uh to let you know in terms of process they had uh 15 days I believe to appeal the planning commission decision which would allowed them through April 6. Um but because they hadn't extended that 120day deadline for us, we needed to make sure we we understood they were going to appeal it. Um we felt they were going to. So we did a precautionary noticing for the public hearing per per our laws. We also did precautionary noticing for the public hearing in the news register. We sent it to the adjacent property owners and we drafted the staff report and the ordinance without getting the actual appeal documents because we needed to post it on April 1 for this public hearing tonight. Um but uh they did get it to us about 30 minutes before we needed to post it. So we were able to get it in the packet for you. And as I said it's a bit brief as to what their appeal is. Um but their appeal was required sidewalks on east side of street. So, I'm assuming it's the same concerns that they expressed at the uh planning commission and the staff report assumed that as well and walked you through those six different concerns. Um, and I just explained all that. So, that's great. So, in the end, uh, this is this is an argument that revolves around sidewalks. Uh, we anticipated that would be their concern. That's what they submitted in their appeal document. And the argument really is when are they required to be built? So, we've had historic practices at the city um versus what the McMinnville Municipal Code actually states the city should have been doing and now does do as interpreted by several different legal counsel. So, we've had a practice of doing one thing. Um, our code has told us to do something else. We've had several legal counsel over the past several years um review this and advise us on moving forward that we had to do the something else that's in the code. Uh, and that's what we're going to be talking about tonight and I think that's

what's being appealed as well. There is the argument of what some may feel should be the timing and process for requiring sidewalks. Uh, but city staff, we're obligated to follow the code requirements. That's our job. You as a comm community, as a community and as a decision-making body, the city has adopted a code. We are obligated to follow that code and the requirements in that code. and legal counsel is also obligated to provide their opinion of what they feel the code language requires. So we don't have the uh we're in our position we're not able to recommend to you to go against what's in the code. So, uh, as I said, staff has been advised by three separate attorneys that the zoning ordinance, which is volume three of the comprehensive plan. We call it title 17 of the McMivville municip municipal code was enacted by the city's governing body. And as such, city staff must comply with its provisions when we're reviewing land use applications. And we can't wave any of those pro provisions unless there's a provision zoning ordinance that allows us to wave it. So, some of the aspects of the zoning ordinance give you some exit ramps based on criteria. This particular one doesn't have those exit ramps available to us. And there's Oregon case law about how we have to conduct ourselves when applying the code to land use decisions. And that Oregon case law was provided in your staff report as well. Additionally, uh the McMivville Municipal Code 17.04.050 050 provides that in part except to the extent that this code provides decision-making authority to others, city planning staff shall administer this code and shall apply the standards and criteria in this code to all applications for approval required or authorized by this code. So that's referencing that title 17 the zoning ordinance. So when we're looking at land use decisions, title 17 is the uh code that we're looking at to review

land use decisions. Additionally, in 17.04.040, it provides that the most restrictive requirements apply. So where there's conditions and requirements that are imposed by any provision of this title that are less restrictive or vary from or conflict with other provisions of this title or any other ordinance resolution or regulation, so other chapters of the McMinnville Municipal Code, the provisions which are most restrictive or the highest standard shall govern. When requirements of this title vary from or conflict with other provisions of the McM McMill Municipal Code, the more specific provision shall prevail over a more general provision. So the partition application, just to give you some background on it, there they have a 26 acre site. uh they're looking to sub uh to partition it into two uh parcels and um as part of that there is some road improvements that uh that are not adjacent to the parcels that are needed um for the for the land to be partitioned. So um yes you can see my cursor great. So right here is Miller Street and it comes to a dead end right here at the edge of their the southern edge of their property. And then this is a interesting topographical um uh situation where the rideway if it went straight ahead uh as you would think it would um there would be this uh topographical difference in height of like I think six to seven feet uh in terms of what's happening on the MIP land and what's happening on the neighbor property. And then there's also large utility improvements in that rideway. So there's some large um power lines uh when the neighboring property. So typically when the city requires a street improvement, the neighbor the property um that we're requiring it of only has to build what's called half a

street. So they have to build enough of a street to accommodate fire access urban gutter and the complete street standard for that half a street. They don't have to build the full street because proportionately the other neighbor on the other side is responsible for that. section that's adjacent to their property. And that was the crux of the original appeal. So, when the city issued a land use decision for the the original minor partition, um oh, and I should explain to you, we met with MIP a couple of different times before they submitted their application because of the unique design associated with the topography there and the difference in in um height as to how how should we look at this street. They agreed to put the full street on their property. They didn't have to do that. Per city standard. We would just take half the street dedication from from the property for the rideway. Uh but they agreed to put the full street on their property as part of their uh minor partition application. And this illustrates that a little bit more. So you see how it curves curls up onto their property. the neighbor to the um west here uh had gone through a land use process and the city had put a a um a non-remonstrance on them so that they would be required to pay for the other half of the street when it needed to be built. So that that was recorded on the property in that land use decision. So, in terms of their first appeal, uh the city required them to to the condition of approval that they were initially appealing was the city required them to build the full street that was on their property, curb to curb, the full street wide um with the sidewalks and um and their appeal was you can't require us to do the full street. That's not proportional. So, in land use, we talk a lot about

proportional exactions. It's not a proportional exaction. they're really only required to do half the street. The other thing that was in condition of approval number five was the responsibility was on MIT MIP to uh use the city's tools to exact the remaining cost of that street from the west property owner. That is not something we can require of them either. So those are the two things that they originally appealed. We agreed with that and that's how we initially changed those conditions of approval that went to the planning commission. now and I think we can all agree on that that that's that part has been resolved. Um but now we're at the discussion of the sidewalks. So we wanted to walk you through a little bit about that in terms of what's in the code because this is the premise of the appeal and the city's position. So in our code um we have a chapter in title 17 the land use chapter called land division standards. And in that chapter we have a variety of different subsections. It works through an introduction and it works through the three types of land division, property line adjustment, partition subdivision. It works through a future development plan, an expedited land division. So that's an expedited sub subdivision for certain types. It then has a section on streets and ways, so what they are and the standards associated with them. It then has a section on improvements. So what are the improvements that the city can require as part of land division and then it has a a section on exceptions, variations, and enforcement. So those are all separated as individual sections. And underneath each section are individual components related to that section. That's important in terms of how that's set up because it shows how they relate to each other. So chapter 17.53.153 is about improvements. That's one of those subsections. And what's at dialogue here is whether

or not the city can can require sidewalks as part of a minor partition. So 17.53.1533 states that the following improvements shall be installed at the expense of the subdivider and it walks through water, electrical, sewer, drainage, so storm water, streets, pedestrian ways, private way, drive and street trees. Um MIP argued at the planning commission uh public hearing that a subdivider is relative to subdivisions and not minor partitions. But we don't have a definition of a subdivider in our code. So when we don't have a definition of something, we have to use the common term. The common term is for the division of land. And because it's not sitting, this section isn't sitting under the subdivision section of the code. So that nesting that I just talked to you about, it's been legally interpreted that this section applies to all land divisions. So it would also apply to minor minor partitions. And this is where we require the public improvements of streets, power, water, electricity, those types of things as part of those land use decisions. The sidewalk portion is under F, pedestrian ways. A paved sidewalk not less than 5t wide shall be installed in the center of pedestrian ways. And we do define pedestrian ways in our uh title 17. Pedestrian way is a rideway for pedestrian and or bicycle bicyclist traffic. So it's been legally interpreted that pedestrian ways are the sidewalks. Chapter 17.53.075 075 then says um it talks about an agreement for improvements and it then says that if the if the developer wants to defer these improvements that we just listed in the other section that we're now requiring of this applicant when they're dividing their land, they can defer it. Uh they can defer it with an agreement. So we can put together a

deferment agreement for them to defer it. Deferring means they don't have to actually build or install that improvement prior to platting the land division. So when you apply for a land division application, you're applying so that you can actually get to a place of creating legal lots. You want to get to that final plat and recording. Our conditions of approval are all the things you need to do before you we before you can plat it before you can record your final plat. So they and they have to do it within a year's time. So we give them a year to do it. that's in the code as well. So if they one can't get done in a year's time or two there's you know compelling reasons to defer the improvements they have the opportunity to defer the improvements by entering into an agreement with the city and then the code also describes how you enter into that agreement and then what the city needs. So E talks about that you are required um to provide one of four things as part of the agreement. So, a shity bond, a qualified escrow, cash or a letter of credit or loan commitment. The premise behind that is if we're deferring improvements that we're that the code requires as part of land division, we need to have a way to make sure that those improvements are built down the road if the developer chooses to walk away. So the shy provides the city the opportunity that if if if and when we need to build those improvements that we have the the opportunity and the funds to build them ourselves if we need to. So I talked about how they're nested within each other. Just wanted to highlight the subdivision section of of this table of contents. It walks through, you know, submission, preliminary review, uh preliminary approval. So, how do we look at um approving it? Uh submission of that final subdivision plat, what you need to do before you get to the final plat, approval of that final plat, and then filing, recording it. So, it has that whole process in there for subdivisions.

The improvements, if they were meant to just be for a subdivision, would be under this section. It would be nestled into the subdivision section, but it sits on its own. So, it actually is a component of the chapter that's applied to all the land division in the chapter. So there was a question about whether the city has the right to require sidewalks with land division. We've had legal opinion uh by several different lawyers over the last several years. We've had a lot of land use attorneys working with us over the last several years starting with Amanda Gilly Himman and then Bill Kabisman and now Missy Ryan who have told us yes you need to require these improvements as part of land division and the improvements is not part of a subdivision. it sits within the chapter for all land division. So the and and here's the reality. The fact of the matter is the city's been requiring construction of sidewalks before a final plat for minor partitions um as a conditional approval for at least the last 15 years. I didn't go past 15 years. It's it was very time consuming to look at all the minor partitions uh for the past 15 years. Um but I'm assuming it's probably longer than that. It's a standard condition of approval language. Anytime a street was required, a sidewalk was required as well. That was the standard language there. What we have not done though uh is actually required that that condition of approval be achieved prior to rec recording of a final plat. So we haven't required that that particular improvement either be built or deferred with a deferment agreement um prior to signing off on the ability to record the final plaque. Historically, we've we've ignored that process, if you want to think of it that way. So, because the code's explicit about allowing developers to defer public improvements uh required as part of land division, but they have to do it with a deferment agreement, which then is explicit about what you need is uh some

sort of bond for that deferment agreement. We've been advised by legal counsel, we can't ignore that portion of the conditional approval that requires sidewalks. um and we need to get them deferred in this deferment agreement if they're going to be deferred. So that's been the recent practice of the city since that um since that uh legal opinion. So to illustrate this how it's historically been applied in the city of McMvville, I'm actually pulling up a uh minor partition that was also an MIP minor partition. We just went through a dialogue about this a couple of months ago because they had bonded for improvements associated with that minor partition with a a deferral agreement. So in that minor partition which is what we call minor partition 5-9. So it was done in 2019. That's what the last number always means the year of the application. There's two conditions of approval that we received in our partner comments from from our our uh internal agencies as to what would be required as conditional approvals or public improvements. One is that prior to the city's approval of the final plat, the applicant shall improve Coven Court, including the installation of curb and gutter, planter strip, sidewalk, sanitary sewer, appropriately appropriately sized storm drainage facilities, and approves appropriately sized water facilities. That is the standard condition of approval language. We also said in condition approval number four, this is back in 2019, that prior to the city's approval of the final plat, the applicant shall improve Miller Street along the site frontage, including the installation of curb and gutter, planter strip, sidewalk, sanitary sewer, and appropriately size storm drainage facilities. So, sidewalks have been embedded in our condition of approval language for many years. Um and we get the we get these conditions of approval in comments from from our partner agencies from for this particular one it was from engineering.

So with that minor partition um MIP elected to defer several improvements associated with a second property that they were going to sell and they didn't feel that those improvements needed to be built yet in terms of the adjacency of the public improvements to that that part of the um parcel. So this parcel they created with the partition. So they entered into a construction permit agreement. So historically we've used construction permit agreements to allow deferment of public improvements. It also tells um the applicant and developer how to build the public improvement. So it has the standards in there as well. For this particular construction and permit agreement, they elected to defer 188,000 $189,000 worth of improvements. So when we defer something, we ask for an engineer's estimate as to the cost of the improvements we're deferring. We then put an escalator on there. The city engineer has the opportunity to decide what the escalator is to capture future costs. Um and then we ask them to um provide a shity relative to that number. So in this case it was $188,900 um that they needed to provide shity for. So they provide a performance bond uh as the shy for this particular agreement. The agreement itself section 2.08 talks about performance assurance. So this is all about if you're not going to build it, we want we want you to be able to assure you will build it in the future or we the city can build it. And on that list of of items that is prepopulated in the template for construction permit agreement is for sidewalks and pathways. So this is the list of improvements that we have elected to allow people to defer for. Um and they did a performance bond for this particular one. Uh they recently finished all the improvements for this particular parcel but not the sidewalks. Um and they got they reached out to us

and said we'd like you to release the bond. Um, we looked at it, investigated it because it included costs for sidewalks, but we didn't have it in our construction permit agreement identified, even though there's a line item for it. So, we said because we signed off on the plat, even though that that was a conditional approval language. I just showed that to you. We signed off on the plat and we didn't capture the deferment um for that particular item. We released the bond because the city had had um skipped that step, so to speak. I think from that experience, MIP's cost for that bond was $5,668, that performance bond of deferring those improvements. And um they have they testified at the planning commission that that's that's a costly amount to have a performance bond um for deferring these improvements. I shared with you in the staff report um that we have, you know, so this is a normal practice for us now and we just recently um had a performance bond for uh $55,000 worth of sidewalks that Homes is deferring for phase seven of their subdivision that they want to plat and record. This is it's a normal process to require sidewalks as part of land division in most cities. It's also normal to defer them with a deferment agreement and bond. Holmes had already asked us, "What do you want us to do with the sidewalks? Do you want us to defer them? And do you need a bond?" So they they were prepared to do that. They do that work in other communities. Um the cost of their bond was $153. So I'm not I don't know why there's such a big difference outside of between the the bond cost the proportional share in terms of 188,900 versus 55,000 isn't as large as the 153 to 5600. In terms of that, we have seen a lot of performance bonds coming in with low premiums, much lower than this one. So, why did the city historically ignore the

sidewalk requirements that were in the condition of approval language? Um, and I think it's because the city felt it had a plan B, a a safety net, so to speak. Um, in chapter 12.12, which is another chapter of the of the McMinnville Municipal Code, it's about sidewalk installation. So 12.12.030 talks about new construction and remodeling. So this section of the code says that if you are building something next to a street that's already been approved uh with curb then you need to put sidewalks in within 60 days uh from the completion of that structure that's located upon that property of the such an owner. Um and we describe we define structure. So remember I told you we define things in the code specifically or we use the common definition you can find in dictionaries. So in this case we define structure as all dwellings commercial industrial buildings and any remodeling of an existing structure where in the new construction or remodeling exceeds 25% of the value of the improvements on the property. So if it's a vacant property and someone's coming in to build on it, it's going to trigger that. And so that was kind of the safety net that the city relied on in terms of not requiring the deferment of sidewalks that were a condition of approval land division with a deferment agreement and a bond. However, the legal pen we've received is you can't ignore one section of the code based on the future opportunity with another section of the code. We can't ignore the fact that the code requires us. So the language is shell require these improvements. There's a laundry list of improvements. We have to require them and then to defer them we have to use a deferment agreement and the shity associated with that. And back to that uh the other part of the code that says particularly in title 17 which is about

land use decisions the most restrictive requirements apply. So from that, the the legal opinion that we've gotten is that we need to require the sidewalks and if they're deferred, they need to be deferred through a deferment agreement with one of those four four opportunities for securing that deferment agreement. There's another piece to this too. Uh so there's ADA, there's uh the accessibility uh I just know it's the ADA act. So the A we all understand what that is. Americans with Disabilities, thank you. act, there's liability for the city and this is fairly recent in Oregon in terms of um liability judgments that have occurred. So sidewalks are considered paths of accessibility and if the city has a code requirement for sidewalks that they do not follow, they could be fined liable for accessibility non-compliance. So what that means is if we have a code that says you need to build sidewalks at this point in time, this is the trigger. Land division is the trigger. you need to build sidewalks and then we don't require them to build the sidewalks and we don't require them to defer it with some sort of agreement and shity so we can build them if the if we get a judgment or need to or a complaint then we're liable because we don't have a way of providing that accessible path. Um, so that's that's been something that has been a discussion in cities for uh several years now in uh state of Oregon. In Redmond, we actually had the threat of a judgment because we had the same exact practice that's been practiced here historically. I don't think it's unusual. I think a lot of cities were doing that. Um, but because of that threat of a judgment, we actually looked at our practices and changed what we did and went to deferment agreements and sh and that was prior to 2016. So right now in terms of our current practice, we require sidewalks. It's one of the public improvements of a land division approval when none exist. If

the developer chooses to defer them, they can do so with a deferment agreement, shy bond, line of credit, cash or escrow agent as part of that. So our conversations with MIP um over this is when MIP first brought this up to us. So, it was brought up when we were working through um the original appeal to the planning commission relative to um the full street and the requirement that they exact the proportionality from the neighbor. Um the staff staff shared with MIP the most recent legal opinion that we had had on the subject. So, and that was from Amanda Gillyman. Um and then Bill Kabisman has also uh reaffirmed that and that's because we've had internal discussions about this as city staff for many years as well. So we let them know that that's been an opinion that we've received. Um we also uh told them we'd be happy to seek another opinion on it from our current land use legal council. So Melissa Ryan who's on the line with you today. Uh so I reached out to our current land use attorney, shared with them what was going on. They came back with an opinion that was the same as the previous two compete opinions in terms of if this code says you need to require it, you need to require it. The code says you can only defer it with the deferment agreement, you need to use the deferment agreement to defer it. And we shared that with MIP those opinions. We also visited with um after the planning commission decision to uh to up to approve the MIP appeal with the two recommended conditions of approval based on what their original appeal was. And then at the the meeting they elected not to uh to amend the decision document to remove the sidewalk requirements. Um I reached out and visited with um with Kate Gal who was representing MIP at the planning commission meeting and talked about you know h if the if the concern is the cost associated with the deferment agreement and the bond needed

for the deferment agreement there's other ways to approach it. We have four options available to us. And we've worked with some other projects where a line of credit at the bank um is also one of the things that we can use as the shity for the improvements. And we've worked with some local banks where the local bank just sends us a letter once a year to say that the that that developer has enough money in their account to cover the cost of the improvements. And we've filed that with the with a project and that's that's what we've kept for the deferment. So, um I've visited with them about that to try and see how we could how we could eliminate that additional capital cost um for the bond um and shared that we were willing to do that with them understanding you know that they are a um upstanding partner in the community and they bank locally. So, we felt com comfortable with that relationship. Um, we also shared with MIP that the city has received a grant, as you know, to update the development code to become compliant with recent housing legislation. And this issue will be one of the areas of the code that we need to review in that process. Um, and uh, and so it's a great opportunity for us to say, how do we clarify the code in terms of what the city wants? If we don't want to require sidewalks at land division, remove it from the code. If we in terms of that section of the code, if we do want to require sidewalks because that's the place where we can get all sidewalks, then how does it get deferred? We just need to work through that so that so that we have direction as staff and that we can write the code accordingly um to clarify any misunderstandings. That project's due to start in the quarter three of 2026. We have signed the grant agreement with the state to do that. We're in the process of contracting uh with the consultant team to bring that on board. And the reason why this will come up in that discussion is that this last legislative session in 2025, House Bill 2658 was passed. That bill itself says

municipalities with populations over 15,000 cannot require frontage improvements, curbs, sidewalks, and gutters as permit conditions. So, building permit conditions, that's what's in chapter 12 of our code for building renovations that don't increase square footage costs under 150,000 and don't change occupancy classification. So, if you recall, I told you that that portion of our code, the trigger is 25% of the value of the improvements. And um now this the law is telling us no, that can't be your proportional trigger. It's $150,000 for residential development. So, we will need to amend that portion of the code one way or the other. Um, and we'll be having that discussion. Uh, so I reached in my conversation with Kate, I said it'd be great if MIP got involved in that so that we can talk about what makes sense for McMinnville in terms of moving forward with the sidewalk requirements. Um, there's many different ways we could be looking at this. Um, we could look at continuing to require sidewalks as part of all developments with land division. We can look at requiring sidewalks as only uh part of land division for residential development and not for industrial development. As industrial land use division may have a longer holding period than residential. So typically when a developer is dividing land for residential development, they're moving forward with their construction. They're doing they're going to start incrementally building out that subdivision. um industrial some is doing it speculatively and and MIP is working on this particular lot from that very same perspective. So they want to make it attractive for development. So they're trying to create some smaller lots to make it attractive for development. It might be a longer hold. So is the do do we want to require sidewalks at the time of land division or is that something that we can require later on with building permits and feel comfortable that we're meeting the intentions of the community and our accessibility requirements?

Um, we can rec decide to just do sidewalks alto together only with building permits. Um, I would recommend that we would need to review that under the ADA law. There's laws that say that if a neighborhood is built out to a certain level. The accessible path needs to be there for the people who live there and all sidewalks need to be built in that neighborhood. It's a current practice in McMinnville historically. Now, now we're moving forward with these per permanent improvements, but the sidewalk's only built when the house is built on that lot. And so, you have many neighborhoods where you have um breaks in the sidewalk. Um or we could do what our current practice is, which is requiring with all types of land division. So, with that, the ordinance that's in front of you um has the decision document of the planning commission. Your your options tonight are you're conducting the public hearing. and you need to do that as your appeal. You need to then deliberate and either affirm the planning commission decision by approving ordinance number 5174. So that has all the findings in there. Or you can deliberate and amend the planning commission decision document by approving ordinance number 5174. And then let staff know um what um where you find the differences in the findings versus the criteria and how you want us to write that so that that decision document will reflect your decision. Um and or you could um conduct a public hearing, deliberate and approve the appellance request, which is I think to remove sidewalks on the east side. Is that just for Miller? We're not okay. Okay. So, it' be removing the sidewalk on the side of Miller Street, the one going north south that's adjacent to the um MIP property.

Uh the decision you you do need to make a decision by April 11th. That's the deadline we have by state law in which to issue a decision from the city. Okay. So, now it's councilors have any questions of staff at this time? So I just want to clarify. So there will be further request there would be sidewalks on the east side of Miller to Orchard but not on the Yeah. So on the west side but not on the east side.

The condition of approval language that you're looking for is number five in the in the decision document that the planning commission approved and it's also the decision document uh that's an exhibit of the ordinance. And so that states that there will be sidewalks on Miller on on the MIP side east side. There's also sidewalks in the condition approval language for Orchard. Gotcha.

Hey, can you come up to the Yeah, and I can state it, too. I think um but we didn't require sidewalks on the western side of Miller Street at all regardless if it would be MIP's responsibility after we amended that the condition of approval that removed that from their responsibility because of that drop that's occurring between those two properties. So the sidewalks are only on the east side of Miller Street as designed. Okay. And the code that we're talking about is city code. Is it any state code or it's just our city code? Just want to clarify. Sidewalk code.

The sidewalk code that we ask that they go in at partition. That's just a code that we as a city chose to do. Is there any state regulation? Uh I I'm have to defer to Missy on that because I don't I don't know all the state land use laws as in detail as she does in terms of what Thank you, mayor. Yes, there's no no state law implications. This is uh particularly the city's development code that the city has adopted and that's been acknowledged by LCDC. Okay. Thank you, councilors. Councelor Chennowith,

it doesn't stay on. It won't stay on. Um I flipped it. It didn't work. Um so my first question is process-wise um do we at this point hear the reasoning and logic of the other side in this discussion? Yeah. So for your process um the and you may have missed this when the mayor was making these remarks earlier. So first you hear the staff report and you ask questions of staff. Okay.

Then you hear the applicant's report and so and then you ask questions of the applicant. Then you ask for testimony and you take testimony from those who are in support of the application. So that would be the appeal and you ask for testimony for those who are opposed to the application and that' be opposed to the appeal. Um and then the applicant has the opportunity to get back up and sort of rebut what has been said. So they have the opportunity because the you're making a decision based on what's in the record. So they have the opportunity to comment on anything that's been said tonight uh to be able to clarify anything for you as the applicant. Then you then you can ask questions of staff and other counselors before you deliberate. When you deliberate, you're not asking questions of anyone anymore.

So right now we're asking questions of staff. So but I'll get an opportunity to ask staff questions later. Is that what I just heard? Correct. Okay. Well, if I'm going to get an opportunity what Heather just said deferring up to because it looks like Missy's leaning in. So, I just want to make sure I got that right.

Yes, mayor and counselors. Thank you. There will be opportunity to ask questions of staff and really anyone who testifies up until the public hearing is closed. However, once you enter deliberations, uh there won't be any more opportunity to ask questions of staff or the applicant. And that is because the record is then closed and we don't want to introduce new evidence into the record after it's been closed. I understood and thank you for that mayor with your I would rather wait and ask my questions after I've heard more of the information. Okay, councelor Gary.

I have a question of staff that helps me understand hopefully. Um so um we are classifying uh we lack specificity on subdivision and therefore are classifying the partition as a subdivision also and applying the subdivider label to the process of partitioning the lot. Therefore activating the the requirement for the sidewalks. Um we we do not have a definition for subdivider. Oh, subdivider. Okay.

And so um because we don't have a definition for subdivider in our code, it has been interpreted that subdivider is the common definition of subdivider, which is divide land. So not relative to the number of lots of land you're dividing, but to divide land. And so that's how that's been interpreted legally. Now in the section 17.53.153 there's language about a subdivision. You will notice under pedestrian ways there is no language about a subdivision. So if the strict interpretation was that the improvements identified in the rep improvement section which isn't nested under subdivision, it's a separate. If the definition is that those that that menu list of improvements can only be applied per to a subdivision, if it says subdivision in the improvement language, then we do not have the opportunity to require water, sewer, electricity, streets. We'd only be able to require pedestrian ways and street trees. And so it's been legally opinioned that that actually is the the whole list of improvements is meant to be applied to all land division. And Missy can correct me if I'm wrong because

that's right. That is the interpretation. Okay. Because I had I had seen so subdivider not subdivision. Subdivider, right? Because I had seen references to subdivision as a path or partition as a path. But and those seem to establish a clear difference. But it's subdivider that's the issue that we're applying to partitioning. Yeah. And if you So not a partitioner. subdivider can partition.

The part there's partitional language under the partition section of the code and um but this because this part of the code isn't nested under partition and it's not nested under subdivision. It's the legal opinion is it applies to the whole code as a section. Right? And if the city council wants to interpret that that section only applies to subdivisions, then we are not requiring those improvements with minor partitions, any of them, not just sidewalks. And actually, the sidewalk portion, ironically, is not as clear because that doesn't just delineate it to subdivisions. So that would be a precedent for you to set tonight as policy. If you want to move that forward, I would say that would be um a president that is uh significantly different than what we have practiced for many years for minor partitions.

Very good. Are you done? Councelor Chennowith. Yeah. I just want to clarify for the record. Um you just said that the common definition is to of subdivider is to divide land. In the packet, that was not the wording of the common definition. In the packet, the common definition was to divide into several parts. Um, and I just want to be clear as to which one is accurate. So, what's in the packet is what came out of our legal opinion. So, that that would be the clearest clearest one for you. Thank you.

Any other counselors? Councelor Peralta. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to be clear about what actions we may or may not be taking and the basis for those actions today. So, in the packet, I'm reading that MIP is not stating that the sidewalks will never be developed, just not developed timely ahead of ahead of the um planning

ahead of the platting. Is that correct? Uh yes, MIP is saying they would not they do not want to be required to they do not want sidewalks to be a requirement of the condition of approval language. Uh because they they will build them later in the project and they don't want to have to have a deferment agreement that has those four options of um some sort of shity for the city to defer them to a future time frame. So thank you Heather. May I follow up? Uh so did they provide any mechanism for for um guaranteeing completion of the sidewalks?

Uh that's a great question for the for the applicant. They provided the one sentence that I showed you as their appeal application. Okay. Um, and then I heard you saying some uh talking about changes to the state code. Um, that to my ear it sounded like you were saying that the incoming law would to some extent shield projects like this one from these requirements at that time.

Um, no. Uh, so the new house bill and I don't have the number without the PowerPoint in front of me, but the new house bill that passed said that right now the city in 12.12.030. So that's the safety net that MIP is arguing you can use that safety net to get out of requiring it as part of your title 17 code. Um and that that safety net says that um any v any property when someone applies for a building permit to build a structure if their property is adjacent to a street that has a curb they have to build sidewalks. A structure is defined as anything that is uh greater than 25% of the improvement value of the existing property. So the argument is if it's a vacant property, any structure coming in is going to trigger that. The new house bill legislation is and and that's also a very similar code that many cities have. So our code looks like many other cities older codes that haven't been updated. Um the uh the new legislation has come in and said no, you can't require that 25% trigger. The requirement is for residential property um that cities can only require sidewalks uh and mostly has to do with renovations um but they can only require sidewalks for projects that are worth more than 150,000 in communities that over 15,000 in population. So what they're saying to cities is you can't capture sidewalks with all these other other sort of um scenarios. You can only capture them when it's over 150,000. So, there are times when the improvement value is less than 150,000 but more than 25% of the improvement value on the property. Some a home burnt down and no longer has the improvements. That type of thing. You've heard that. That came to US city council and we required sidewalks. Um the new the new law says we can't do that. What

I'm saying is because we have to change that part of the code because it's no longer compliant with state law. That's an opportunity for us as a community to have a discussion about this whole sidewalk discussion and what's currently in title 17 that I legally cannot ignore and our legal our uh legal um council has said they can't ignore it. We work under ethics within our industry. Um that so we have to require it and we have to require the deferment agreement. But we have this chapter 12 over here that um that we can have a discussion about when do we want the sidewalks and unwind this thing that has become confusing and sort of intricately webbed together and it's created a historic practice that doesn't meet the code and has created angst in the community in terms of now we're trying to meet the code and we're doing it differently.

Thank you. May I follow up one more question? Yes. Okay. So um with regard to the historic practice and I assume this is at what point at some point it sounds like we would have allowed this to not be completed at platting and that that was more recent than 15 years ago.

Yes. Uhhuh. So if you and that's why I brought together shared with you the the recent minor partition that we just discussed with MIP. So that would be from 2019. and that's at 5-19. Um, where we had sidewalks in the condition of approval. Um, they didn't build them. They deferred their other public improvements, but the city did not require the sidewalks to be deferred and we still signed off on the plat to be recorded and and subsequently the sidewalks have been built. No, the sidewalks have not been built. They built all the other improvements. They did not build the sidewalks.

Okay. Now in in a situation like that, Heather um what tool does the city have to requ like to require the completion of the sidewalks where they haven't been done previous?

Yeah. So that's that is that that's at 12.12.030. So the argument is when and they sold that property. So they divide they divide the parcel. They sold that property. They feel that it's no longer their responsibility to build the sidewalk. I don't want to speak for them, but I think this is accurate. Um, and so the the thought is that when that property develops, they come in that under chapter 12, we will be able to require the sidewalks as part of chapter 12. So I would just clarify and add to that that where there has been development and building uh sidewalks and curb and gutter have been put in. The only place that there is not sidewalk out there right now and there's no shity bond related to it is on the vacant parcel. So there is a mechanism under chapter 12 for the city to require those improvements, landscaping, uh sidewalks, so on and so forth when that parcel is actually built upon only sidewalks. So the landscaping and things like that, street street trees we cannot require outside of the land division. So if you decide 17.53.1153 does not apply to minor partitions, there are things we will not be re able to require in the future unless it triggers a landscape plan and building permits don't always trigger that.

But usually what's that? But usually they do. Um I'm I'm not comfortable saying one way or the other. I'd have to go back and do the research and I haven't actually looked at that part of it. Any other counselor questions for staff right now? Okay, then we're going to go start to the public testimony. Our role is to listen to the public testimony and ask clarifying questions when appropriate. Does the applicant wish to provide testimony?

Yes, please. Okay. Can you state your name and address for the record? Uh my name is Kate Gowell and I'm an attorney at Hogerberg Grutder Gowell Fredericks and Higgins BC. The address is 620 Northeast Fifth Street here in McMinnville. Great. Attorney for MIP the applicant. Okay.

Great. So I I I'm just here to to provide some comment and clarification on uh MIP's uh role in the community, this particular project and how our firm and uh our board members have looked at the code and how we differ in interpretation from how city city legal council has. Uh so just from a from a historical standpoint, MIP is an interesting uh corporation in that it acts even though it's a for-profit corporation, it does have a special corporate purpose and mission. So in reality, it acts almost more like a nonprofit than it does a corporation. all the board members, none of them actually own stock in MIP and really what they are looking out and they're all none of them have any sort of compensation related to being on that board. And so they the whole purpose of MIP uh in its bylaws and in its uh articles of organization is to foster, encourage, promote and improve industrial, commercial and physical development in the city of McMinnville. So MP I think um if you're not familiar which I think most people here are has worked for many decades uh handinhand with lots of partners in the city um including the city. Um so we we feel very strong about our relationship and the positive impact that we've had. Uh as the council is aware um city staff has recommended certain conditions to approval mainly related to number five and then we ask respectfully as well for uh clarification to number 12 which was added related to sidewalks. So essentially uh kind of the crux of the situation which we've talked now at length um with the city on the city side

is uh that MIP would like to strike the requirements for sidewalk at the time of recording the partition plat um and defer it to the time of applying for a building permit. Um we would hope that the council can interpret the code as they have done in the past um to allow these improvements to be deferred without the requirement of security or bond um until the development occurs. uh sidewalk. It is our opinion um just based on developing lots of land uh trying to prepare land for development that sidewalk and driveway construction should be solidified and a um and dealt with in the normal course of property construction. This is both uh fiscal and logical um from a from a fiscal and logical standpoint it may just make sense. So um our understanding now is that legal council has interpreted the code and advised city staff to impose the subdivision portion of the code on minor partitions. Uh we respectfully disre disagree that uh subdivider should be used for everything. Um if you look into the code under sub under land divisions related to lot line adjustments uh they call it the applicant. Under partitions, they call it the partitioner and under a subdivision, they call it subdivider. And so, if this was not to be defined and we're not using words with specificity, then why do we have these different names and uses depending on what part of the code we're talking about? So, as an attorney myself, I feel that this interpretation does not serve the city and is not appropriate. um it's

unreasonably expansive and questions why we would have a co a portion of the code that uh speaks to minor partitions at all. Um if it's true that how this interpretation that uh city staff has been advised to uh use why wouldn't everything just be a subdivision because that's what it's really requiring. So from what we understand and the city has told us, essentially under the current policy, individuals looking to complete a minor partition in land would be now required to have a development plan in place prior to the partition along with the ability and funds to construct all improvements related to that. While improvements may be required eventually due to development, they should not be required at the partition plat stage unless they are undertaken voluntarily, which we felt we've done um as MIP related to many of the improvements requested. At this time, MIP is not a developer creating a subdivision. It's not a housing subdivision. Uh we're just really looking to make 26 acres into two different parcels, build a road so it is more manageable and sellable. So we understand that uh subdivisions do require specific improvements and plans and are subject to a design review process. And that makes sense, right? When you're putting in a subdivision in a house and you're subdividing into quarter acre lots. Yeah, we know where the driveway is going to be. We know essentially where the houses are going to be situated in these in types of industrial properties. We are looking at um with MIP it might end up being two 10 acre parcels. It might be a bunch of 5 acre parcels. There might be one acre parcels. We don't really quite know yet

at this time what the need and desire is for our community. So we still maintain that the subdivision portions of this code do not apply to uh this very simple partition. Um and so uh we also feel that the the sidewalk requirements improvements are not standard in this area. Uh I don't know if any of you have been out to the industrial park, but uh when I went and looked on the Miller Street, I mean, this is a sidewalk that starts from nowhere and will go to nowhere. On Orchard, there's no sidewalks on any part of the I think the southern part of the street and there's no way that this is going to connect even to Miller. Um the the improvements that we're talking about on Miller, they're a standalone island out there at the moment. So there's no connectivity and I I just don't feel that people are going to be walking um or using those uh sidewalks out in the industrial park. So um city staff has also cited that there have been other ADA actions um against cities that had codes that actually require um sidewalks at land division. Uh but again, the application of putting sidewalks in at this time, um the I we don't think that the McMinnville code actually requires sidewalks at this time. And so I think that using the ADA as a tactic for scaring everyone into following this particular line of thinking is not appropriate. I think uh as this council can appreciate, the practice of law is not always black and white. Um and legal interpretation is very nuanced. And so we just feel that just because we've had legal counsel in the past say this is what we think you should be doing. Um it

doesn't mean that there's not another reasonable approach and interpretation and that the city can't do what it's done in the past. So, as we have maintained all along, um MIP does not suggest that the sidewalks and other improvements would not ever be required. Uh just that they shouldn't be a condition precedent at the time of platting, that they should be uh the timing of this should be discretionary under the code and is really most appropriate at the time of building, especially on vacant land that we're talking about here. So, um the city has control over the permitting process for development and at that point uh it would make sense to go undergo a more rigorous approval process for plans and development and where where the sidewalks are going to go in where the driveways are going in so on and so forth. So, additionally, if sidewalks are built in advance of property development, uh they are often and most assuredly going to be damaged uh when the development actually occurs and or are going to need to be torn out, rebuilt, needed to accommodate when we actually know what the site design is. And so, um installing these improvements are a waste of time and money. We uh it chose development and um just the the thought of having to to install it, build it, redesign it, take it out and then rebuild it again just doesn't make sense from a corporate fiscal standpoint. So um the unintended consequences of that I think this happens is that we end up having development from individuals who can say I have all the money in the world to to put in these improvements. I don't care. Um so we're looking at I

think it really halts some sort of development and we're looking at very specific types of investors or developers if any. So, uh, staff mentioned that MIP could defer improvements, which we have done in the past, and what that's actually one of the reasons why we're here is because of what our experience was with that particular that particular situation in deferral. Um, and so, uh, I think that, um, in Heather's, uh, commentary, I think you said that, uh, the bond was about 56 or 5,800. Uh, I would actually want to correct that that because I looked up the the actual premium that we had and it was $2,800 a year and we paid that for six years. So, even on comparable but different um types of improvements that that bonding was um a significant cost. I would also say just related to the HOL uh subdivision is that premium of $153 is that every month is it once a year? And again I would say it's related to a subdivision not a partition. So um we're kind of to me we are uh comparing apples and oranges here. So requiring either the preconstruction of $50,000 of sidewalks that we're going to have to tear out or bonding it to potentially a very what I think is going to be expensive bec based on our true experience. Um and potentially holding that for 10 years, 20 years. I mean MIP's already held this vacant land for two decades. I I think that it is reasonable and likely that it will be another at least five or 10 years before real development or um

anything occurs on that just because of the nature of how MIP works. So on a side note um away from MIP and on a just a personal note on a representative basis from our firm we've seen kind of the harsh realities and how this is put into practice every day. So we've had multiple clients over five or six years um many that have either decided not to put in an application. We actually just told a client today to say to tell them to wait and see what the decision was today because she wanted to partition her land, but didn't have the cash or desire to improve it without knowing what she was going to do with it. Um, so either they have not moved forward with an application, they've abandoned land partitioning altogether um due to the expense involved with complying with these unreasonable improvement requirements. For example, we had uh we feel that this goes to installation of sidewalks, improvements in streets. Um we had a client who was requested to build a street through a portion of their house that was the rightway andor put in sewer requirements that didn't connect to any sewer because it was an older it was an older neighborhood. And so I think that while the actual application of this has been for us as attorneys frustrating as well as sometimes nonsensical. So um MIP continues to maintain that we feel that this kind of notice requirement of what is actually required under partitioning code is not adequate to say yeah these these requirements are

required at the time of partition. So from MIP standpoint uh we we are we don't feel that we are asking that any applicable code be ignored or violated. city staff has imposed conditions to approval um that we feel really are specific and specified for subdivisions and are a totally different activity than what MIP is requesting here. So while MIP understands that the discretionary nature of requiring conditions to approval installation of sidewalks at this time does not make planning or economic sense and should be required when development actually occurs. So, uh, in closing, MIP respectfully requests that the council revise condition five and condition 12, uh, to take away those sidewalk requirements. Uh but in any event, regardless of outcome, MIP really would implore the council to take this issue seriously um when considering this upcoming code amendment um and for the timing and implementing of these required improvements for small land divisions because it really does have a detrimental impact on development in our community, especially related to commercial and industrial businesses. Are you done Kate?

Happy to answer any questions. Does any counselor have any question for Kate Gell? I have a question on the not really in regards to this, but you had mentioned that you had another client that you are told to wait. Was that industrial property as well? It's a commercial property. Commercial property. Okay. Thank you. No questions right now. Oh, councelor Peralta will have a question.

Thank you. Uh, hi. Good to see you, Kate. Thanks for your presentation and uh your analysis. So, we have the interpretation of the code from it sounds like a few different current and previous staff attorneys. Um, and your your interpretation is a different interpretation. Can you walk me through your theory of of how you interpret the city code uh in a way that aligns with your request?

Sure. So essentially under these different types of um in the code and Heather had uh pulled pulled up the subdivision you know kind of how it's divided up and how it's related is we have lot line adjustments we have partitions and we have subdivisions and as you can appreciate uh as this land division gets more complicated so do the requirements associated with doing And that makes total sense, right? If you're going to go and put in um 200 homes, we I think we want to know how are those homes going to be served with sewer, water, streets, sidewalks, all those accessibility things that make residential subdivisions um livable and usable. What we're talking about here is a minor partition for a vacant piece of industrial land where there are no sidewalks if there's we're actually putting in any accessibility to that property um for a long time. Um there wasn't even a driveway up to it. And so uh you had to hike up a little 7 foot burm um with uh full of blackberries. So um we recognize the challenges related to that. So because of those different differing sections and because the code has very specific language, um I mean I think if the word subdivider was supposed to be used across the board for all of these types of land divisions, they would just say any subdivision of land is a, you know, you're a subdivider. And here we have lot line adjustment is an applicant. We have partition is a partitioner and the subdivision is a subdivider. And I think that when we think about subdivisions,

I mean, even even in how our conversations have been, there's a there has been um comparison of, for example, like whole homes, a subdivision, and what the requirements were related to that subdivision and trying to apply it here to a very simple partition. And so we would maintain that those requirements related to approval of a partition and the the plat the platting of that partition that none of those requirements related to the subdivision should be applied. And so we would maintain that yeah those sewer I mean from a very aggressive standpoint I guess we would say yeah um at the time of platting none of those improvements should be required but should be required when you actually develop it which is at chapter 12. So we don't actually feel that those two things are at odds with each other. I think they work together. Um and we're not really talking about all the different improvements here. Um, obviously MIP has voluntarily said, "Yeah, we'll do curb, gutter, roads, that type of thing." But at this time, it's just nonsensical to to put in those sidewalks. And we understand that there's discretion from the from the planning director for those things. I think it we're really talking about not when or not if, it's when. Would would you agree that the code is is probably too mute when it comes to this category of platter or you know this this this lesser category which we're not I guess calling a a subdivider but maybe a partitioner.

Say that again. Well, it it seems like the code is not very I mean the staff's position is that because we don't really address partition partitioning and some of these other sort of more minor things that it falls under this broader category of of subdivision. And I guess my question is do you agree that the code is probably insufficient in terms of how it talks about the partitioning? Well, would we love for there to be more detail that for example that sidewalks are required at the time of building permit? Yes, we would love that language. So, if you're asking if it's insufficient in that way, yeah, I think there's some discretion here that we can talk about about timing. Um however because we're when we're talking about land division in a from a partition standpoint and we're talking about minor partitions and generally I have seen in my own practice minor partitions are related to vacant land and so to me I don't think it's actually insufficient to say oh right now we need to do all these improvements when we have no idea what the actual development is going to look especially when we don't require a pre-development plan or a a plan, you know, a a map of what we're thinking about doing just because we know it's going to change.

Got it. Thank you, Councelor Chennowith. I just want to ask a clarifying question um just to make sure I'm understanding clearly. From my perspective, what I hear our staff saying is the absence of the specific terminology uh referencing partitioner in this means all apply. Um and you're saying the absence of the specific terminology indicates it doesn't apply and actually the section 17 is what really does apply or not 17 section 12 section 12 is what really applies. Am I understanding your position correctly? Okay. Thank you.

Any additional questions for Kate? Councelor Cunningham? Um I'm looking through uh specifically I think it's the decision document for the ordinance 5174 and when it gets under 17.53.153 and the improvement require or the improvement requirements. Um just Cunningham, can you tell us what page you're on? Uh can join in.

Page is 301 of the packet. It is page 42. I guess it starts with page 41 um to 42 of the ordinance itself. So 42 of the actual paper copy, 301 of a computer digital. Correct. Okay. Read. Yeah. starts with 300 ends in 300 42 if the paper copy

uh the it's specific to the 17.53.153 improvement requirements improvements sorry I'm having a hard time I have on my paper copy I'm confused because Um, I have numbers that say page 12, for example, and then it says 14 out of 330. So, I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Oh. Um, you're going to So, if you have the entire packet, you're going to have the entire packet. Page 300. 300. Okay. Yeah. Start digging.

It's the decision document associated with the ordinance. 300. What? Uh it's just it's it's going to start with that 17.53.153 Oh yeah. Okay. Yes. Specifications of improvements.

Okay. So it goes through the improvement list that we've been made aware of and and the difference and I definitely see where some stuff is referring to subdivi subdivision, some stuff is referring to subdivider. So I I can grant there being um a little confusion there, but uh underneath what what I understand is the applicant's response at the time, the applicant did not provide a written response. Is there a reason why it wasn't provided at that point in time?

That's an excellent question. So, um we at the time um of when this was apply um when MIP was applying um and talking about this, I was out on maternity leave and so AKS did the initial application. So, I can't speak clearly to uh whether why that was there or not. I'm I'm just following up. Okay. Any additional questions? Okay, I think that's it right now. Thank you. Thank you.

Does any person in the audience wish to speak in support of this proposal? Don't forget your name for the record.

Good evening. Mike Morris, 935 Northwest 19th Street, McMmenville, Oregon. Uh, Mayor Morris, Council President, Peralta, counselors. Um, I am not here um representing any of the organizations that I participate in to be clear. Um and to be honest, um MIP is not even aware that I am speaking to this matter. Um I have read the packet completely and I am confident that the decision that was rendered was done with a great deal of thought and I also know that prior to MIP coming here, there was a great deal of thought put into their decision. I think it's important to know MIP's history to some degree. And this is an organization that's been a partner of the city of McMinnville and for 70 years had the city of McMinnville's best interest at heart. The current board of directors is made up of Tom Pankersley, Harold Washington, Chris Hualt, Devin Piola, Doug Hurl, Miriam Vargas Corona, and Mike Betett. And for the record, Mike Bet was the former city engineer and also the former um community development director, I believe, until 2021. I think that when I think that everyone needs to be treated equal when they come before the city of McMinnville. I don't think MIP should be treated special, but I think sometimes certain people's voices speak louder than others. And I think there is a message here that needs to be heard clearly. And it it was I I know MIP by nature. I know all these

individuals on a personal level. I know they are very conservative people and MIP is a very conservative organization. and for them to come here and bring this before you, there is a reason. And I think Kate has spoke to that. I think that it is something that this council needs to give considerable consideration to as they make this decision based on who MIP is. Thank you. I want to clarify for the record that that is my husband. I did not know he was going to speak and I will not be voting on this. Um so I just want to make that clear that I don't have a vote.

So mayor just um Missy for a process question. Yes. Uh the mayor would typically um break a tie in a vote. Do you Oh, you have a you have an odd number of people. Okay. I just want to make sure. Okay. So, um thank you, mayor, for um pointing that out. Um so, could you clarify? You won't be voting and typically if a a council member is going to not participate or recuse themselves, they also don't participate in the deliberations. So, I I just wanted to clarify that you're not planning on participating in any way. I won't now. Okay,

that's fine. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Um, Doug Hurl, did you have something you wanted to say?

My name's Doug Hurl, Post Office Bach 956 here in McMinnville. Uh, and uh, I'm president of uh, MIP, so I thought I should maybe at least say something. Uh, one thing I wanted to clarify um, about our uh, board of directors uh, that our attorney got wrong. Um we we are compensated. We have one heck of a holiday party. Uh so we do get compensated with a nice lunch. Uh but that that is it. Uh I think as the council members can see is that this project of that we're trying to get back in the industrial park. It's kind of the last piece of uh the puzzle back there. And it's kind of 10 pounds of confusion in a fiveb box. And it it just it's it's just hard. If you notice that we're up on top of the uh of our property trying to get through because uh the water and light department has a mainline water going through the road uh where the transportation uh system is supposed to go. And then they've got high overhead power lines that feed the uh uh whole industrial park there too. Initially, when we bought this project 20 years ago, we thought that we'd come to the end of Orchard Avenue and we'd put a cul-de-sac in there and it would serve the 26 acres is what we what we really thought. We did we didn't know that there was a transportation uh plan that put this road through there. And if you look to the uh directly to the east of our property where the city of McMinnville currently owns the old Pacific North construction site uh that they purchased. I don't know there's eight or 10 acres in there and it's a big cult in there. And so that's kind of what we thought would be a cul-ac and that's how we'd get there. Uh but now we find out that we've got this uh 10 pounds of confusion in a 5B box and so we couldn't move the lines. They were so

expensive to move lines. Uh water and light wasn't their problem. It was our problem because we wanted to get to the land. Uh the water, the people that uh have uh the lumber company next to us, Elk Creek, they'll get no use out of this road whatsoever because of the seven or eight foot embankment. And they're going to spend a couple hundred,000 uh on their share of uh the road or more. uh they don't have any sidewalks uh as Heather said on that side because of the elevation uh portal that's there. So it it it's just a it's an odd piece. Um MIP is going to build a we're going to build a road uh cuz because that's that's our mission. Uh we're going to build a road there. Uh one way or the other, whatever your guys' decision is. Um we work well with the city. We have for years. We have no animosity. We we understand what they're saying. And I know when I talked to Heather some time ago, she said, "Well, you know, we've got land use attorneys and stuff. They've told us this is what it is and we've got, you know, it says right here in the the book." And I said, "Well, maybe you need to rewrite the the book and get new new attorneys." But that didn't go over very well. So, uh, I I I think

just need you to wrap it up, Doug, because you Oh, was it was that the three minutes? Oh, jeez. Oh, geez. Christmas. Okay. Anyway, we're going to build a road. Whatever your decision is, we just disagree with how you guys are interpreting uh what the code says. Thank you. Thank you, Claudia. I forgot to ask you, do you have anybody else signed up? No. Anybody else from the audience that wants to testify? Nope. Okay. Does any counselor need anything clarified about any testimony? I do. Councelor Peralta.

Thank you. So this is for um Heather or for our legal council. So, um, if council were to hold that the, um, that the interpretation of the city code that Kate Gow articulated, which is that, uh, minor partitions are not intended to be covered in the subdivision uh, code. Um, can somebody walk me through the practical ramifications of that uh in terms of how it would affect projects in front of the city, other projects in front of the city? I guess first from a legal standpoint and then secondarily from a practical standpoint.

Yeah. So, and I I think um what's being s suggested because what we're talking about isn't actually under the subdivision section of the code. We're talking about the improvement section of the code. And I think MIP is arguing that that improvement section should only apply to subdivisions. Um that section is 17.53.100. Uh excuse me 0.153 is the actual what improvements we need to require. And then I think there are two other portions of that section. Yeah. 0.150 and 0.151. So if if the city council makes a finding, so in your decision document that uh councelor Cunningham was pointing to the condition of approval requiring the sidewalks and the streets and the things like that are relative to 17.53.153. If you decide that 17.53.153 does not apply to minor partitions, then in the future we will not apply those improvements to minor partition decisions. and that will also include 17.53.100 and 151. Those are what the improvements are, how they should be designed, and who should review the design for them. I think I'm going to have to uh turn to um uh the public works director to make sure I'm right on this, but I think that that requirement if if you want to postpone the building of those improvements to chapter 12 with building permits, I think there are other portions of the code that require it to be designed to a certain way. If we're eliminating this portion of the code for minor partitions, I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna okay do a little bit more depth uh into what that would mean in chapter 12 because a lot of it is

specific to holding off on sidewalks versus other improvements. And so it's going to take me a little bit here to get you an answer specifically to that. Yeah. And I think what Jeff is saying is it's not just pulling out 153 uh F, which is pedestrian ways, the sidewalks. It's pulling out 153 altogether, which is the menu list of improvements. Right? So that's the legal implications, but what would be the practical implications in terms of projects that you have at the city? Would there be

Well, so minor partitions is one of our more popular projects right now because we don't have a lot of larger land to subdivide anymore and um and so what it would mean is we are not capturing these types of utility improvements with that land use decision. Heather, can I ask a question? Uh if you don't mind, councelor Peralta, do middle housing land divisions are the city processes those as expedited land divisions? Is that correct?

Yes. Okay. And so I guess I just wanted to flag also that for any middle housing land divisions that come in that are are not subdivisions. So three three middle housing lots are under those would also no longer be subject to 17.53 100 through 153.

Yeah. So, if you get back to that, and it's in the staff report, the list of sections. What u Missy's pointing out is um we have an expedited land division section. So, there's property line adjustments, partitions, expedited land division. That can be a large subdivision, small subdivision, partition, and then subdivision. If we if we then make the statement that the improvement section is only relative to subdivision, so tie it to that only. You're not you're no longer capturing it under the expedited land use decisions. And that particular piece applies to all missing middle housing based on new state laws.

Uh and then councelor Peralta and the f and final answer to your question. And I guess another one other legal implication that I I believe Heather touched on, but um is it's a gap. I would say the only place for the city to require street trees and this is under section 1753153H is at land use approval because I believe what Heather said and please correct me is that uh section municipal code section 12 doesn't speak to street trees at all and so there would be a gap there in being able to require street trees for anything but a subdivision proposal.

Uh let me confirm that because we do have a tree section. So I want to confirm that really quick for you. The street tree piece of it. Yes,

Heather. Um if what what um in terms of meeting the needs of what the city really needs to have in terms of in terms of making sure that this infrastructure gets done just whether it's done at platting or later just making sure that it gets done if we were to um take the position that uh Kate's interpretation ation of our um ordinance is the correct interpretation and this is just another way of getting at my previous question. What what would besides the street trees which I hear might be an issue and might not be. Is there anything else that you would be prevented from doing that you want to do? And then I guess maybe related question. What in your mind should this code look like? like if if in if you had your

I I could answer the second part quicker

and for the record I would love to rewrite the book um if there are resources to do so because it needs it. But uh I the for clarity in the code it would be great to have for each section of land division. If the city decides that the improvements that they want to require for each type of land division is different um then each section of land division should have those improvements defined in that section. Right? So under partition, it should say the city can exact the following land improvements as part of a partition. Uh for expedited land use decisions, the city can exact the following improvements for expedited land use decisions. Those types of things because then it's clear this is what you're doing with this particular type of uh land division. Um that's not in there right now. I was just looking through it. The only the only place where there actually is clarity is a property line adjustment which is not a land division and it says that we can only require act easements and some other things and then frontage improvements if if uh if as uh I'll have to go back to the language of it but that's not under partitioner the the ability to impro to require the frontage improvements if that makes sense. I'll read to you the language for the property line adjustment uh because we're working on a lot of those right now too. Uh in terms of the first part of your question which is are we losing the ability to losing the ability to acquire these improvements with a minor partition? What does it do for all the other things in that menu list? I'm I'm actually going to defer that to Jeff uh in terms of the utilities.

Yeah. So it would be a combination of multiple uh titles in the code. So sidewalks and roadways are under chapter 12. Sewers under chapter 13. Um so we would have to and frankly those parts of the code need to be written as well. The sidewalk portions from 1987. There's some parts from 1948 in it. Um really if that was the path forward by recommend my by staff recommendation would be to put um the city would need to prioritize putting resources forward to developing like a site development code or something similar to cover all this because right now all those individual codes are inadequate for some of these requirements. I don't I think we're going to run into a lot more questions that staff won't be able to answer. We're going to need constant legal interpretation uh for some of those just the way the code is now.

Thank you. Um I have a question for Missy. Um, Miss Ryan, um, is there a way that we can, um, tailor this or sort of make the decision narrowly, um, so that, for example, as applied to industrial land development, you know, our finding is that this section doesn't apply or or something to that effect.

Thank you, um, Council President. Uh, you know, I've been thinking a lot about the possibility of that. Um, it would not be consistent with a statutory principle of construction which says that not to insert words that are omitted or emit words that are there. And so that that would I think be a difficult argument. I do think that it's it's very challenging to um I'm just going to quote Secretary Rumsfeld from the early 2000s that the council has the misfortune of having to interpret the code that it has rather than the code that it perhaps wishes that it has. And um are there are some statutory construction constraints that are in addition to you know that unfortunate principle. I I don't think that it would be I don't think an available path is to insert as applied to industrial land. I do think that from just what I've heard tonight and my involvement in this has been for several months that the code is in need of some finetuning. Uh, and perhaps more than fine-tuning. And, um, perhaps one one way to tackle it would be to elevate that fine-tuning in in the planning department's work plan so that it happens uh, sooner than in conjunction with a much more massive housing code amendment. That's a very long answer to your very, very short question.

Thank you,

Councelor Chennowith. Um, first off, it strikes me that what we're actually doing in our definition that has been provided by three different legal counselors is adding language that's not in the code. So, it's interesting to me that your your your statement is we shouldn't add language in this case by assuming that subdivider applies to those that it doesn't actually specify that it applies to. That to me is adding an interpretation into the code that's not actually stated. So, that's the first comment I'd make. The second comment I'd make is I do think there's a really easy way to tailor this to this one decision. And I alluded to it earlier when I caught the language that was missed um in in the uh uh packet. Um the definition of the word subdivider um in in the packet specified uh several parts. Um, it's interesting that we we chose to look up the actual definition um from Webster's for the word subdivider, but not several. Um, and if you look up several, the definition for several is more than two. So, it would seem to me we have a very easy way to tailor this decision um specific to this particular issue and and move on and then going forward fix the code if we feel like it needs fixing. I personally don't think it does. I I think from from my perspective it was intentionally not including partitioner and it was intentionally not including um uh I forgot what the other category was

expedited land division

um that that this was intended to be for a subdivision which all of us natively recognize as being a rather large piece of land divided up into small pieces. um it was not never intended to be something in this small type of of of uh nature. So I don't have a problem with that portion of the code. I think making sure that when we're have people coming before us that are um looking at um simple lot adjustments like this that we have specific code to that. I think that would be a good idea, but I don't think we need to be changing from my perspective uh the initial code.

So Missy, to follow up on that, um Tom Shower and I did a lot of research on the history of the code because we're trying to figure out what was going on. Um the city uh a long time ago, so I don't know when, prior to 1980s, had a definition for minor and major partition. So, Councelor Chennowith, a partition, it can go up to three lots, not just two. Um, and a minor partition was two and a major partition was three. The city at one point in time amended the code and just created partition and eliminated the definition of minor and major in that regard. Um, relative to that, so I don't know if if that's consideration for a finding or not, but I wanted to bring that to the attention. Tom and I couldn't find a basis for why that change was made. Well, and I think I think it's if we're looking for a situ an answer to this problem, um I want to be cautious how I say this, but um um one of the things I commented on when I ran for office is I I really wanted to see us working together to find solutions with those that are uh trying to get things done in our community. Um, and I think code like this allows us to work together with them. Um, and instead it feels to me like that's not what we're doing here. We're working against them and and I think that's not in our best interest as a city. I don't think that's in our best interest. It's in our definitely not in our partners' best interests. Um, so rather than holding to the letter of the code, it would seem to me like the right thing to do, which we are anyways in the way that I'm describing the definition, it would seem like it'd be better to uh find ways to work with our partners. And I think understanding that the difference the

the definition of the word several means more than two resolves this issue. Okay. Um before we move forward, I'm going to say one comment and then councelor Takowski and then councelor Cunningham. I just want to make sure clear um that was there anybody that wanted to speak in opposition? You didn't clarify that that comment. I asked if anybody wanted to speak. Nobody. Okay. So,

and mayor, I just wanted to clarify one thing. um the expedited land division, which this would not apply to if the finding was this only applies to subdivisions are could be very large subdivisions. Expedited land division just means it's a type of subdivision that needs to be approved through an expedited process. So any any future missing middle housing subdivision, which is what we're seeing for subdivisions, these improvements will not apply to those. I just want to make sure that's clear as we're working through the process. Thank you, Councelor Towolski.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Uh, Miss Ryan, I have a question for you specifically, and I do I don't want to affect the exped expedited process for the residential zones, but unfortunately, what I see is that we're applying the same uh code all the way from an R1 up to a M2, you know, heavy industrial, and it doesn't make sense to me that we would do that. So my question for you is would it be possible for us to carve out a section that was specifically for an industrial use being ML, M1 or M2 and make that a unique condition that wouldn't affect the current process with anything else but would allow us to create an industrial opportunity where we could accommodate the needs of those unique conditions that don't exist in the other areas. Uh, thank you councelor. Uh I'm I think your question is similar to councelor Peralta's which is could we read section 17531.3 to say uh except for industrial or or something like that and I guess the the council will have to um I guess identify the language in the the actual language in the code that would support that interpretation. As I as I said before, there is a statute statute at 174.010 that uh tells interpreters of code uh not to insert what has been omitted. And so my my answer to that is kind of the same. Uh there's no distinction right now in the code that pulls out industrial land, but there could be with a code amendment. Uh I also want to flag that the council is of course free to interpret its code

uh ultimately in the decision in in whatever way it chooses. So I'm just here as the city's attorney giving you my legal interpretation and I am bound by the code of ethics also to give uh legal advice that is you know my best legal advice. Yes. Thank you. And if I may follow up for just a moment, it so what I what I hear you saying is that today in the code it doesn't exist and don't insert the words that aren't present. But it is possible for us to move forward and create this uh condition that we could apply to unique zoning areas of the city regardless of whatever we we choose there. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you,

Councelor Cunningham. Yeah, I think this one might be for David. Um the in the the document uh it basically said that when there isn't a definition that we go to the Miriam Webster as the definition. Is that across just code or is that across the city? I could answer that with regard to general interpretation, but Missy has been advising on every portion of this and I think it would be better if you went through her. Perfect. Thank you, Missy.

Thank Thank you, David. Yes. So the the um how the Oregon Supreme Court has instructed uh courts and that has also flows down through the land use system to local governments to interpret undefined terms is by reference to the court uses Webster's third new inter international dictionary 2002 edition specifically but uh with general resort to the dictionary definition. May I? Yes.

So, I've been I guess I don't have the 2002 Miriam Webster in front of me. Um, and so I just wanted to make sure because I I really was listening to councelor Chennith and and hoping that we could find a spot, but I just want to make sure that what I'm seeing here after it says to divide in several parts, it says specifically to divide a track of land into two or more parts or more lots for sale or building development. Is that a part of the 2002?

Uh, uh, thank you, councelor. I do think that the Miriam Webster dictionary is probably very close to that the what the court uses. But um the if we parse it out to divide into several parts then could be read to say to divide into more than two parts. And I think uh Heather may have pointed out that a partition actually is three or less to divide into three or less. And so when you get up to a subdivision, the trigger is four or more for a subdivision. All right. Thank you.

Uh yeah. Was uh 1753163 variance ex explored in this process?

Uh yes. So, uh, what councelor Giri is talking about in the code, um, we have the opportunity to do variance applications. So, the, uh, the applicant had the opportunity to apply for the variance. I and I believe they chose not to. They chose to appeal. Would would would would a variance application have been an alternate path that would allowed us not to make our own interpretation or alternate interpretation of the code but allowed for a path where mutual satisfaction of requirement was.

Yeah. So it in our code we have uh three types of variances. One that we call a zoning variance. So that's for the whole zoning ordinance except for we have a variance for the land division. So this is what councelor Giri is talking about. Um and the variance uh and an administrative variance. So the land division variance has a fourpart test. So a variance is when someone applies and says you know um I need a variance from what the code stating to move this project forward. The code says we can explore that if it meets this test. And the test is usually it's not it's an unusual situation, right? And that's why we need the variance um from the code which is meant to be applied mainstream. So the test is there special conditions affecting the property that are not common to all property in the area. Um the variance is necessary for the pres preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right of the petitioner. The variance complies with the spirit and intent of these regulations and will not be detrimental to public health, safety or welfare. and the variance is the minimum variance which would alleviate the hardship. So yes, they could have applied for that and and worked through that test and to see if see if they had the findings for that.

Very good. Mr. Chennowith, can I follow that up and ask the applicant if they would like to explain why they didn't file for a variance?

So, um, we did not apply for a variance because we felt that this portion of the code did not apply to partitions and therefore variance wasn't needed. I feel that um in certain you know if we had setbacks or something like that and we wanted it to be in two feet closer to the uh to the property line or something like that. I think when the variance is appropriately applied for and put into place is when you say yes I know that code provision applies to me but I want to differ from it. In this particular case it's just not applicable. Councelor Peralta.

Um Missy, is there any risk to the city for attempting to apply like we have city codes and it sounds like

it sounds like we have not applied those codes consistently. Is there any risk to the city in terms of uh having not applied the the code to the same standard of then now holding that standard for applicants? uh councelor I'm not certain whether the city hasn't been applying the code maybe in the last 10 years or whether the code was applied but um it wasn't carried out at the end the so so perhaps I think what happened and Heather can clarify this but the the code actually was applied but on the back end the final plat was recorded without assur a a deferral agreement you know with assurity I think that is more the situation

yes that that's case okay so so we've so if you look and again I went back to 2015 or so um but uh if you look at previous minor partitions the condition of approval has included sidewalks as a requirement in those uh minor partition applications and decisions um we have not required them to actually be built and we did not require them to be deferred with the deferment agreement either, but they were part of the condition of approval.

Right. And so my question is does having had that as a practice before does applying the more rigorous standard now create any risk for us? So meaning meaning yeah. So Missy the question is if if the city has had it as a condition of approval previously and elected not to require that the condition of approval be fulfilled before is there risk if we don't require it to be be fulfilled now? No. Is there a risk if we do require it now having not required? Oh okay. All right.

Uh that's a tough one to answer. I I always would say um a city that chooses to follow its enacted laws is going to be in a less risk situation than a ch a city that chooses not to. So the direction that it's going I think provides less risk. Any additional questions, comments for the record, going once, going twice, anything?

No, I guess are we doing deliberations now or are we just still at the question and ask answering session? So, if you need to ask questions, you haven't closed the hearing yet. This is the time to ask questions. If you're done asking questions, you would close the hearing and go to deliberation. I I don't have any questions. Okay. Okay. So, final request for questions. If not, I'll close the hearing.

Okay. 7:37. I'm going to close the hearing part. And now we're going to go to ordinance to consider the first reading with possible second reading of ordinance 5174. Does any counselor need to declare an actual or potential conflict of interest or recuse themselves regarding the ordinance? I will again state for the record I don't have a vote anyway since there won't be a tie, but I will recuse myself from any vote. Um, we will now consider the matter of ordinance 5174. Does any councelor object to having the ordinance read by title only? No objection. So, I'd ask for city attorney David Lightenberg to please do the first reading of ordinance number 5174. Thank you, mayor. This is the first reading of ordinance number 5174, an ordinance memorializing the city council's decision for the McMinnville Industrial Promotions Appeal of the Planning, excuse me, planning commission's approval of MP6-25.

And it states, I need to go back to Heather. Do you have anything else to present? Nope. Any counselor have any questions for staff? Do I have a motion to accept the first reading of ordinance number 517? Mayor, just a process um point that David's pointing out to me. Um as I described, we wrote the ordinance and staff report without having received the appeal application yet. So, I want to note that on your ordinance that's in the staff packet, the one, two, three, four, fifth whereas statement says whereas on and it's blank. That should say April 1

and that's in the packet not on. Yes. So that's the ordinance that's in your packet that you're voting on. It has a blank uh date for the fifth were asked statement and it should be amended to say April 1. Can we have the options in front of us on the screen again? Another thing, mayor, that I would like to bring up is this is an ordinance and you're under the land use clock to have a decision document by the 11th, I believe Heather mentioned. And so, if you're not unanimous in your first reading between now and the 11th, you need to hold another meeting. If you're unanimous in your first reading, you can do the second reading tonight.

Thank you. Okay. So, does any counselor have any questions for staff? Okay. Do I have a motion to accept the first reading of ordinance number 5174 and possibly passed to a second reading? Um, another option. Yeah, I'd like to see the options. Um, are they right there?

Are we going to deliver it? If I can interpret for councelor Chenwith and I have a question for Missy. Um, so the ordinance has a current exhibit to it that has the planning commission decision document. If the city council wants to amend that decision document, do they need to how would they work through the motion and the readings if the exhibits amended? Is that your question, counselor?

Well, I think I know what I need to move. I I and and if I get it wrong, you can correct me. Um, but I can't read. There we go. Um, I'd like to move the approval of ordinance number 5174 with the striking of the language requiring the sidewalks. Um, so I have a motion. Do I have a second? Just for a process question, we actually need a finding for that striking. Uh so do you need the finding in this part or after we get a second in the deliberations? Good question for Missy.

Yes, this is a challenge. Um without an applicant extension of the 120day deadline, what the final decision that this city council needs to make on this land use in this land use context needs to be supported by written findings. And so, um, I believe what would happen is, uh, the council during its deliberations is is going to explain, uh, its vote, it's its reasoning and staff's typically how it would work is that staff would come back to the council with written findings to support the decision. Um, and then council would adopt those written findings. Uh however, without with the deadline uh bearing down on us, uh I'm not sure that the council is going to have time to adopt findings in support of its decision. And it and if on the off chance that it was appealed to Luba, it would be vulnerable to being remanded without those findings. So, but Miss Bye, could they adopt could they make a motion adopt ordinance number 5174 with the decision document with the following amendments? And the amendment could be uh um I'm I'm g pretend I understand where you want to go with this counselor. So just bear with me on this, but the amendment could be uh to strike uh section 17.53.153 is not applicable.

Yes, that could be the amendment. However, the the decision document at the planning commission level doesn't include an explanation for striking 17.53.153 as an applicable criterion. So, there's a vulnerability there and that just mainly has to do with really being pressed for for time on that 120day clock without an applicant extension of the deadline. and and understanding if you strike 17.53.153, you're striking all the improvements that are that are in the condition of approval, not just removing sidewalk. Can Can we reopen the the uh testimony? Reopen the hearing real quick so I can ask the applicant a question.

I need to ask Missy. I I think probably Yes. Well, I'm going to reopen the hearing then. Okay. Um, I just want to make a comment that um, I don't know procedurally MIP would be willing to give some sort of extension if that is needed from that's the question.

Do we need a number of days for that extension? Is the extension 120 days? What is the norm? Uh so it the the I believe there's a lot of time left within the 245 days that c it can be extended. So I think that's a question for staff which is um the time that it might take. We haven't voted yet. You haven't voted yet, but to uh write findings to support uh the city council's decision and bring those back to the council to adopt those findings. there. Do you have

um I would suggest based on workload and agenda items that you have coming up for April 28th, which would be the earliest we could get something in um that we look at an extension to May 15th and get this to you on May 12th based on your direction. May 15th. Wait, did you say May 15th? Yes. Okay. So, we have it on May 12th and to the to that'sable to MIP. So May 15th is fine with us. Okay.

Okay. And and by by law that that applicant request for an extension does need to be in writing. And so my recommendation is that the applicant's attorney uh send an email to the planning staff uh that requests an extension to May 15th. Yeah. And then that's premised on the fact that tonight you tell us what you want your findings to be. um in terms of direction and decision and then we'll we'll write the document accordingly. Councelor Chennowith. So for me the there's two things. One, I'm probably not going to get the rest of my council to agree on

and I'm going to interrupt for just a minute procedurally. I'm sorry. This is so procedural. Have we closed the hearing after you opened it? Oh, no. Okay. Okay. So, we need to close. Do we need to do anything for the record besides what Kate said about extending the email and that plenty? Okay. So then we'll close the hearing.

So two things. The first would be I actually concur with the applicant's interpretation of our code. Um so that would be one finding position that we could take. Um, I think we are adding language by assuming it includes things not specifically stated and by so doing we're violating basic principles of construction. Um, so for me I would I would be I'm sympathetic if not in agreement with the applicant's position. Um, secondarily um for but I don't think I'm going to get everybody on this DAS to agree with me when I do that. So um with that being said I will I will go with my other uh uh finding which is 17 whatever the rest of it is.153 does not apply in this context would be the finding to minor partitions

for clarity does not apply to partitions because that's you you can't you can't individually pull this one case out minor partitions. Any further dis you want more discussion on West thought? Not discussion. You have a motion. Did you actually make a motion? I thought he was I thought that was a motion. Was it actually a motion or just No, I thought we were supposed to be just giving you so you can come back with the finding. So, I'm giving you the finding that I think is her rationale.

Okay. That was probably my creation of confusion, but there there the council uh will need to make a decision tonight by uh someone making a motion, a second, and then discussion, which is also deliberation. So, I'll go back to my motion. We'll we'll I'll move to approve.

Sure. So, Director Richards, I I was going to add that u section 17.53.153 should also distinguish between industrial zones uh from should distinguish industrial zones from all other zones and provide correct code for these conditions. That's what I'm asking for. So the finding is finding is it doesn't define this well enough to apply to the conditions that are being seen on the piece of land that we're talking about right now.

So the finding is that this section of the code doesn't apply to industrial zones. Yes. Okay. Okay. So let's go back. I have to have a a motion and then we'll have the So I move we approve ordinance number 5174 striking all requirements for sidewalks

based on your findings based on the findings that 17 what's the middle piece 53.153 17.53.153 does not apply to minor partitions. So we would remove all improvements in the conditions of approval because that section includes

section 12 or chapter 12 will have those improvement requirements when they start to develop. If the finding is 17.53.153 does not apply to partitions, then we would have eight different categories of improvements that we could not put on the partition land use decision. I have a question. Councelor Peralta,

what would be the narrowest motion that we could make that would align with the redacting that portion? If I knew that counselor, we would not be here today. What eight items are not going to be included by chapter 12?

I'm going to defer that to Jeff. So chapter 12, the portion that was referred to by the applicant is only referring to the sidewalk improvements. So the other items that are in 1753.153 would be water supply system, electrical system, sewer system, drainage, streets, uh private way drive, and street trees.

How would I? So, I'm really confused by this because when I did my property and I added a 20 by 20 pad to my existing building, street trees, sewer, water was all included as requirements to do that construction. How is it not required when the new buildings are built onto that property? So, they would still be required, but they'd have different triggers. I can only use the trigger in chapter 12 or sidewalks. I'd have to individually look at each title to see if the triggers are met. And so, they likely will, but it's going to be

a lot of pieces I'm putting together. And it's not going to apply perfectly to everything because those other titles aren't written with this in mind. So in it would be an inaccurate statement to say that if we don't apply 17.171.53.153 that street trees will not be required of any building that's built there that sidewalks will not be required of any building that's built there that connecting to the uh uh uh not sewer water uh water supply system the sewer system and the the the the all those different pieces are not going to be required of any building within 60 days of being built on that lot.

No, I'm just saying I it wouldn't be in chapter 12. It would be in different sections and I would have to I can't tell you exactly which all those sections are. So sometimes plumbing code's going to require it. Some I think the only one that would be probably completely missed by the rest of the code is street trees. I just don't know exactly which parts and that's a lot to ask and what again I don't know how that would be possible when I was required to put in street trees just to extend my building by 20 ft I wasn't a part of that decision so I can't speak to that right

councelor I think what we're trying to tell you as staff is you know we're not prepared with the other portions of the code to tonight to tell you when and when that would be required and what would trigger that requirement Um, and if that's something that you'd like to see us come back with, we can do that. But, uh, no, I think I'm fine with my motion. I I'll, if I can get a second, that would be great. Can you remind us what your motion is? It was

um approving ordinance number 5174 striking the requirements for sidewalks um with based on 171.53.153 not applying to minor partitions. Do I have a second? May I Excuse me. May I add clarity that to the motion? Is that possible? Do I need I need a second first, don't I? And then you need a second before I clarity.

I just wanted a clarification from our attorney, I believe. So, do you want me to ask Missy? No, we can do this procedurally. Um, there's not a motion on the table. When it's seconded, you can move to amend it. So, if I second the motion, I can also immediately move to amend the motion. Yes.

Okay. Then I second and I ask for an amendment. Okay. Yes. So I'll move to amend the motion. Uh the amendment would be to 17.53.153 and it's the addition of section E specifically speaks about streets and getting further into the second sentence just striking the portion which deals specifically with the sidewalks. So that so uh councelor can I can I step in here? The

the council is not at this time making amendments to the code language. So I'm not I'm not sure if I heard that correctly. Um but it's not possible right now to to strike the strike language out of E. Okay. So, we have the second. We had a proposed amendment, but just say the second. Is that withdrawn? You're withdrawing. Yeah, I'll withdraw that motion.

Okay. Any discussion on the motion? Councelor Cunningham. Um, understand I understand what we're saying with the the removal of one uh dang 1753153. Um I'm I'm wondering if because the applicant specifically stated uh that underneath F pedestrian ways a paved sidewalk no less than 5T wide shall be installed in the center of the pedestrian way. um that since that didn't have partitioner or subdivider if just that one F can be removed.

That's that's exactly what I was just trying to do. Like I if basically we're saying that we agree that the appellant is correct and saying that because they're just specifically talking about the sidewalk portion that due to the fact that it not being designated whether it is a partitioner or a subdivider that specifically because it doesn't refer to that that we are removing I'm trying my best not to jump into here. So, if Missy or Heather want to speak, by all means. Um, but that distinction is made at the head of that code section where all the letters below apply the opening of that section is the following improvements shall be installed at the expense of the subdivider and then everything below is applied based on that. the the only difference about F is that it does not have subdivision in it. So, um to say that because it doesn't have subdivision in it, that doesn't apply to a partition is kind of counterintuitive to the argument that this section doesn't apply to partitions because it's for subdivisions, which is what the the um applicant is is arguing. So I

counselor Zakowski. So So if you if you look at uh code 17.53.151 uh which is the parent of 153. If you look at that code 17.53.151 section C specifically says that you shall uh conduct the sidewalks in pedestrian ways. Would it be possible to strike that portion of it rather than the lower portion so that we could

Well, again, you're not amending the code. you're providing a finding as to why you think that particular portion of the code does not is not either applicable to this type of decision or that the finding is the the application meets that particular part of the code. So we're not cherrypicking pieces under these different sections as to what we think's applicable. We're making the decision that this portion of the code's not applicable to partitions. Councelor Peralta.

Um, so I just want to clarify and hopefully we can wrap this up pretty soon because we have a lot more business to complete tonight. But um so my impression is that um if we were to hold that 1753.153 does not apply to minor subdivisions that all of these will sorry minor partitions that all of these will not be applied to minor partitions at the point of platting. But everything except possibly street trees will be done by the time construction starts.

I again I don't know the rest of the code so I can't definitively say one or the other to you. Um if you're asking me to verify that's exactly what's going to happen. I'm not willing to state that tonight. I haven't read all the code. Um if you want to make some assumptions as the council, you are welcome to do that. But as staff, I'm going to reserve the right to say I don't know and I have to look that up. Okay. Okay. Can I follow up? Yes. So, you can come back with an answer for the next meeting. Yes, I could absolutely come back with an answer at a later time. I just can't make that uh interpretation tonight. Okay. So, we have a motion on the floor. Any further discussion? Second. We don't have a second yet. We have second.

We have a second. I thought he was drew his amendment. Okay. So, we need to have a vote on this. Just to re remind everybody, a non-unanimous first reading means you're coming back for a second reading. Can clarification, but the time frame that the applicant has so generously given us to work with gives us time to accomplish that. Correct. Yes. Correct. Okay. Thank you, Councelor Giri. Nay. Councelor Cunningham. I. Councelor Dolski. Hi.

Councelor Chennowith. I. Council President Peralta. Yes. Ordinance 5174 passes with dissent by a vote of 4 to one and it will be brought back to second reading on May 12th. Correct, Heather. Ordinance 5174 as amended. As amended and it's not clear to me what the amendment is still. Are we striking 17.53.153 in its entirety because it doesn't apply to partitions? That's what I said.

Uh yeah. So the other question would be since you passed this for the first reading, do you still need uh director Hunaker and I to come back to share with you whether the improvements that you just struck out of minor partitions can be captured elsewhere? Yes. Yes. Yes. As part of your second reading of the ordinance or justformational at of the April 28th meeting because you've already made a motion for the first reading. Can I could I suggest that that would be informational only? Um it's not possible to go back and reopen deliberations based on the answer. Okay. Based on that information, we'll send a memo. Okay.

Do we really need Yes. Maybe. Okay. So, we're done with this hearing. Correct. Okay. All right. We appreciate everybody's patience. Um, this went quite a lot longer than we thought. So, give us a quick break so we can get something to drink and use the restroom and we will be back and do interviews for Ward 3. Thank you.

these.

Okay. We're going to get started with our interviews for Ward 3 vacancy. First, I want to tell the council that you have a book in front of you and you need to write your name as an interviewer and the candidates's name. They are sectioned. All the notes can be written on here and these will be turned in at the end of the night. So, all notes are public. Okay. Um we will now we will now begin the interviews for ward city council ward 3 vacancy. At the end of the interviews council will have an opportunity for deliberations. We will proceed down the dis with counselors. They're assigned a question um from a prepared list. All of the applicants will be asked the same questions. We can ask a question for um that's connected to that for verification or um clarity. We are trying to keep them because of the fact that it is a late night to 30 minutes per applicant. So just keep that in mind when you make your answers that we want we would love to get you through all nine questions if we can. So we are going to start with Carson Benner.

Hi Carson. Good evening. Thank you for being here. I wonder if all of you really want to still be in W three after that long meeting. Do you want to be a counselor? So anyway, thank you for being here. Um, like I say, we're going to take turns asking questions. We've been assigned questions, so I'm going to start. And the first one is, what steps have you taken to understand the issues facing McFenville, and how have you prepared yourself to effectively serve as a city councelor?

Thank you, and thank you all for your service. Um, I've lived in or worked in Mcmminville for over 30 years. I've been in Ward 3 for more than eight years and I know most of the counselors as as friends or acquaintances. So, I've been close to the city council for years. Um, I didn't decide to enter into this race until relatively recently. And so the last two weeks have been a little bit of frantic um reviewing of budgets um and talking to different counselors. The I live about seven blocks from here and I track local politics very closely and so I've I've tracked what the city council has done for for years.

Great. Thank you, Councelor Cunningham. Yes. Thank you, Carson. Uh, can you describe your involvement in the McMinnville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as a city counselor?

I moved to McMinnville and before we had children, I went to a schoolboard meeting. I thought that's what you did. And they sort of laughed at me. But I've been just intimately involved with uh local civic organizations since I've been here. Um I've served um in various roles more than 18 years with the school board. I was on the citizens for um or McMinnville Education Foundation. I was also um part of habitat board for years and responsible for the Aspire development. Um recently I've served as chair of the U McMinnville Economic Vitality Leadership Council along with uh councelor Chennowith.

Great councelor Takulski. Yeah, thank you and thank you for being here, Mr. Benner. Uh, city council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group, but still needed to support the final decision and how did you navigate that?

I've I've served on so many boards where I am often not in the majority and so I'm very comfortable with that. Uh I I think that uh building consensus is is what makes a successful board. And I think that um my experience of not always getting my way and figuring out how to support it is uh just years and years of doing that and um very comfortable with it. I I like to be in the majority, but I'm often not. Councelor Chennowith, sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Banner. Um, given McMinnville's limited tax base and budget, how would you approach setting funding priorities? Are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? And what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund? If you need to repeat those in parts, I can do.

Yeah, there was a lot a lot to unpack there. Uh, thank you. Uh the city of McMminville suffers from the same plight of most cities in Oregon where we've seen uh consistent erosion in revenue at the same time that expenses have gone up while services are not necessarily going up at the same rate. And so uh it's not an enviable position. and and we we there you start when you make this most recent budget I think is a great example of that where across the board there were unsatisfactory reductions in services um and it's it's the nature of the role of the city council to make those decisions. I can't look, having spent a lot of time with city members, I can't look at any division and say I see waste. And so I think that when you do make those cuts, there there are going to be cuts in services that are going to be felt by the community. Did I answer all those questions?

I think so. The size and scope of the general fund, I guess. Oh, yeah. So, it is $120 million. $140 million depending on the budget. Okay. Councelor Gary, I almost memorized that question, but I didn't. What do you see as the top three issues facing the city of McMinnville over the next 5 to 10 years? and uh how would you begin to address those issues near-term if appointed?

I think McMinnville is at an inflection point um where we have a lot of um issues that are affecting the livability and the nature of our community all sort of converging at the same time. We've got restriction in budgets. We've got a decrease in population growth. Housing is absolutely critical and we are not doing a good job getting enough housing in the community. Housing prices are going up. Student populations are going down. Um if we're not careful, we're going to turn into a um community that's only retirees can live in. And that that's not something I want to see. There's a lot more to that question. Give me

so sort of a top top three issues facing the city in the next 5 to 10 years, which I kind of heard you say budget, housing, and growth,

right? And so if you look at um I think we've got several initiatives that are super important to the community right now. Third Street improvement has just got to happen. We've been talking about it for 50 years and I think we're getting closer. Um uh McMinnville Landing is super exciting and I think that we need to do everything we can to make that happen. the Alpine Street development, which we just got funding for, is is critical. I think the the sale of the county buildings in downtown McMinnville are it it's going to be a generational change in how those buildings are occupied. And so, um, they're not our buildings, but they're going to affect our community.

Okay. Councelor Peralta. Mike,

thanks again for being here tonight. Um, many issues come before the council that require u difficult decisions. At times, members of the community may disagree with how you voted, even when you believe it was the right decision. How would you handle that criticism? I was the board chair of the school board um with a new superintendent, two new school board members, and we were still in COVID lockdown. And our our our first board meeting, I was assuring the board members that it's easy. No one ever shows up at our meetings. And uh I was really wrong. And I think that that that process where you had very passionate parents with very strong opinions on different sides um very excited about their sort of perspective on it. Taught me a lot about how to listen and be respectful and build um build consensus by respecting different differing views.

Thank you. Chennowith.

Um, so city council packets can be extensive, and I mean extensive, often several hundred pages and require timely, thorough review. How have you handled similar responsibilities and what approach would you take to stay prepared? I I I think my experience with the budget over the last two weeks has, you know, a lot of hitting my head against the wall trying to figure it out and then calling people to help interpret it. Um it it's certainly going to be a more heavier lift than my experience on the school board. Um but I'm confronted by those sort of how do you do this every day at work? And so that's part of my mindset, part of the way I live.

Uh Carson, if appointed, do you intend to seek election for the position in November? And if so, what's informing your decision? I don't think I'd come here if I didn't want to serve in November. I think the the the joy of this opportunity is get a chance to try it out and see if I'm a good fit. I've run campaigns before and am sort of naturally competitive and so uh very likely I would.

Is there anything else that you would like us to know about you? I think that I don't have a pet issue that I want to champion other than uh housing and I think that c kind of crosses many different demographic groups. Um having an opportunity to serve alongside uh the other counselors and help shape what happens in McMindle over the next generation. I think, like I said, I think we're at an inle inflection point and I think my experience and um education helped me drive that.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Your last question. Appreciate your and thank you for being patient. Okay, now we have Richard Smith. Uh, I read his I just want to finish my notes for a sec. We're going to have you sit tight for just a moment. They want to take some notes.

Yeah, no problem. Okay. All right. Thanks again for your patience. Thank you.

We're gonna ask you the same questions. Um, so what steps steps have you taken to understand the issues facing McManville and how have you prepared yourself to effectively serve as a city counselor?

Yeah, so I I am a member of both the affordable housing commission and the southwest area plan uh special advising group. Um I am also just somebody who is constantly in trying to be involved with uh the community at large and the issues that face them. I am involved with a lot of um organizing and like protest organization here in town. And I try to be a person who can uh hear and hear and deliberate on what kind of issues people are facing. I do things, you know, like read the news register every day and uh just try to be involved in the general discussion. Um, I always try to come to city council meetings and if I can't make it, then I try to uh watch them on YouTube later.

Great. Councelor Cunningham. Richard, thank you very much for coming in this evening. Can you describe your involvement in the McMinnville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as a city councelor?

Yeah, so I am I I love McMinnville quite a bit. I think McMinnville is the greatest town and I try to I love this community and try to be involved at all levels that I can. I do like I've said already that I I I serve on both the affordable housing and the southwest area plan and I do that because I want to be as involved as possible with the decision-making in the city. I think that the city is at a point right now where we're at the precipice of big big generational changes and so I want to be as involved in those discussions because I think McMinnville is a great city. I think it has these issues that it is facing but I think these issues are fundamentally uh solvable and I think that we will solve them going forward and I want to be a part of helping with that.

Thank you. Yeah, Richard, thanks for being here. Um, city council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group, but still needed to support the final decision and how did you navigate that?

Yeah, so uh I'm a business owner here in town. I own Velvet Monkey Te down on Third Street. Uh that means being a part of the McMinnville Downtown Association. Sometimes, you know, I don't necessarily as an individual business owner agree with uh the decisions of the McMinnville Downtown Association. However, understanding that the third street core does best as a collective and does best as working together and building on top of one another, we try to um do we try to follow any like McMinnville Downtown Association. Uh I don't know if you would call them ordinances, but whatever decisions they reach and try to uh embrace them as best we can. We understand that we might not always be um in the majority, but we always want to whatever the decision is, we want to try to carry it out the best we can. A kind of petty example of this is the downtown association talking about the street signs, right? And this is like been a whole thing, the sandwich boards on the street and what materials and stuff they can be made out of. This was a decision. The decision to make them like all wood in an examp for example was not a decision that we necessarily agreed with. But we are excited to carry it out and are going to try to make our signage as good as we can to be a part of a collective downtown aesthetic because if that is the goal, if that is what the downtown association and uh has reached as its decision, I think they know what they're talking about and I want to try to be a part of that as best I can. I get the meaty question again. So, it's three parts. Given that Minville's limited tax base and budget, how would you approach setting funding priorities? Are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? And what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund? Yeah. So, my understanding

of the city's general fund just from the discussions last year around budget is that it's north of hund00 million I believe. I'm not quite sure the exact specific in terms of dealing with the limited tax base. I think uh it's been particularly hard watching McMinnville lately be a city that is constrained and what it wants to do and the idea that there is a lot of ambitious ideas for the city such as the uh recreation bond and all of that that uh we see limitations on due to a lack of budget. I know the community center it took what was it a year or two to get that new elevator in. It's it's I know it's complicated and hard dealing with these budgets and areas where I would want to make sure that McMinnville keeps receiving investment and that I would want to champion is into its parks and services. I want to make sure that the people of this town are receiving those benefits. I also think that exploring other uh revenue producing streams beyond tax base would be something that would be interesting for McMinnville to do. Whether that be through expanding McMinnville and water and light to clude like power production or through a city public fiber network um that would be something that people uh consumers could pay into um in order to receive download speeds similar to high um what we see with Highlight in Hillsboro. I think would be a way that we could potentially not replace tax revenue of course, but it pad them and give a little security. Where I'd want to see priorities is to parks and wreck and into um city services above all else.

Uh thank you, Richard, for your time here tonight, your patience. Um my question is uh what do you see as the top three issues facing McMinnville in the uh next 5 to 10 years and uh as how would you begin to address those issues in the near term if appointed?

Yeah. So, I see the three key issues facing McMinnville right now as housing and density changes, as uh affordability and livability, and as I would say the the limited budget um as we've kind of as I kind of talked about in the last question. Um, I think that McMinnville right now with the urban growth boundary limiting how much that we can expand out and it being something that both protects the wilderness around our town as well as the farmland, it makes it harder to expand the city's housing needs to meet the perspective growth. I'm a business owner here in town, but I can't actually afford housing here, and part of that is just due to limited supply. So, there is this idea that McMinnville needs to uh increase density Uh, but how do you do that while maintaining the charm that makes McMinnville McMinnville that maintains the sense of community that makes McMinnville McMinnville? I think that right now we are going to be making decisions as a town that are going to as a municipality that are going to be impactful a generation or two down the line for this city. I think making sure that um density is expanded but in a way that least impacts the character of the town. So, uh, things like medium density housing, things like concentrating, uh, density around like the downtown core, for example, where it's already very walkable, already, um, has a lot of amenities is ways that, uh, McMinnville might be able to have its cake and eat it too on increasing density, but maintaining that small town, uh, feeling we all love. Um, I think also the idea of I think McMinnville is going to be going through heavy changes as in its economy as we've seen with like uh the wine industry kind of drying up. I know

a lot of pe wineries are ripping out their their vines lately to uh to rather leave that groundow. So I think that there is this idea that McMinnville is going to change in terms of its employment structure soon and I want the city government to be prepared for that and to be looking ahead on that whether that means um championing initiatives like the public Wi-Fi going downtown to increase uh the amount of like street vendors that can kind of use that space or to increase like tourism or whether that would include like I've kind of talked about already this idea I have for a public uh fiber network which might be able to attract more uh remote workers who can uh enjoy city services but uh work where they need to work. Um I think that the city will have to be prepared for these economic changes as we move from potentially potentially move from a wine town to being a wine something else kind of town. And so I want the city government to be prepared for that because I think over the next five to 10 years that's going to be a real issue.

Thank you, Andrew. Many issues,

Andrew. Thanks for being here. Um, many issues come before the council that require difficult decisions. At times, members of the community may disagree with how you voted, even when you believe you made the right decision. Uh, how would you handle that criticism? Uh, I think I would handle um I don't think such criticism would be something that necessarily grates on me. My my biggest concern would be that people not understand why I've made a decision uh the way I have. So, I'd want to make my uh reasoning clear and as we do live in a small town, as people come up to me uh and might express their opinions to me, I'd want to be respectful, listen to them, and try to understand where they're coming from because I think fundamentally most people want the same kind of things for McMinnville. We want it to be a place where we can all live, have children, raise those children in a safe environment, and continue to enjoy the the culture and the the vibrancy of this city. So, I would want to understand where they're coming from and maybe consider I frankly the possibility, could I have been wrong? Could I have potentially have misunderstood something? Could I potentially have not seen this from another viewpoint that might be enlightening? and maybe trying to come to a consensus or to um understand what the what the needs of the city are as best as I can and the needs of the constituency as best I can. So, how I would deal with that criticism is I would want to listen to it, reflect on it, and uh keep it with me.

Mr. Smith, I didn't mind my manners the first go round, so thank you for being here and thank you for your patience. Thank you for having me. Um, city council packets can be extensive, often several hundred pages, and require timely, thorough review. How have you handled similar responsibilities, and what approach would you take to stay prepared?

Yeah, so I don't know if I've ever had a had a job or a responsibility where it was a similar kind of system of having these like several hundred page packets come to me. That said, uh, with the Affordable Housing Commission, with the Southwest Area Plan, we do get these, uh, similar kind of packets, and I do try to always make sure that I've reviewed them, that I'm staying on top of them, that I'm understanding the content that is within them. Um, being self-employed, I do have uh, a more flexible timeline to to read these things. I do read a lot anyways, and I like reading about city planning and uh, like zoning issues already. So I think I uh would roll into reading those really well. And how I would want to stay on top and stay prepared with them is just to make sure that I am uh consuming any uh any literature that is coming to me and making sure that I understand the issue as clearly as possible so that I can come in and u be a part of the discussion in a beneficial and helpful way. If appointed, do you intend to seek election to this position in November? And if so, what is informing your decision?

Um, I want the best person possible to be in this seat. And uh, I'm not I'm not a very self-involved person, but I do think that I have valuable experience and insight to offer to the seat. So, if appointed, I would stand for election in November because I would want to serve my constituency in the the city as best I can and to offer that insight uh and experience as best I can. Um, even if not appointed to the seat, there's the possibility I um could run if I if I see that whoever else would be holding the seat or running for this seat, if I think that they are not the best fit. And I'm not to say that anyone besides me is not the best fit. That's not what I'm saying. Because I'm sure there's lots of people who uh you these other applicants are fantastic and if you were to appoint one of them, I'm sure that they would be the best person for that seat and I would be uh happy to respect that. But I just want the best person in this seat and if that's me then I want to uh prove it to the voters as well.

Great. Do you have anything else that you would like to tell us? Um just very briefly, I am a full-time student as well. Currently I attend uh Portland State University um where I study urban planning and design. Um so I am uh I'm very involved in these kind of issues and I'm constantly studying up on them. I try to be an organizer and meet with people regularly um whenever we can, especially when it comes to housing issues. Um so regardless of whether you guys appoint me to the seat, I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of me. Thank you. Appreciate it. And again, thanks for your patience. Thank you for having me.

I'll give it just one second so counselors can finish their notes and read the bio for the next one. Artemis, are you still on Zoom? I'm going to go ahead and promote you. Artemis, if you want to accept to be promoted, that way we can share your video and audio. Oh,

here. Oh, come on up, Artemis. Artemis, have you been listening online so you know the process that we're going through? Okay. All right. So, we're going to take turns asking you questions. You okay? Did you run here? Uh, a little bit. And, um, yeah. So, I'm ready. Okay. And so, just make sure the mic is close to your mouth because that's um they're they're very finicky. Take my Okay. Do you want to take your coat off before you start? That's okay. I'm good. I'm good.

All right. What steps have you taken to understand the issues facing McVenell and how have you prepared yourself to effectively serve as a city councelor?

So, um my name is Artemis Johnson. I live on 827 Northeast Davy Street. And um some things that I've done to I guess um help myself understand more of the issues in McMichville or just things in general of what's going on are um attending the schoolboard meetings um attending the economic vitality leadership meetings, the diversity, equity, acquisition, like just a lot of the committees that we have and just kind of figuring out how um each part connects together. uh that comes together um towards um making decisions that affect people. And so um it's so cool when I hear Heather or any other individuals making comments and um I can learn and kind of just go downtown and kind of see what's actually happening and talk to people. And so there's th those are kind of some areas that have helped me better understand what's going on in McMinnville. Um, also like uh volunteering, so like the survival swim or like um just being involved in like volunteer opportunities like with the county fair just kind of helped me understand like how safety and um just community is a really important thing here and um yeah, so just just try trying to stay as involved as possible with um committees and volunteer opportunities.

Okay, great. Artemis, thank you very much for coming in. Okay. Can you describe your involvement in the McMinnville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as a city counselor?

Could you say that one more time? Sorry. Can you describe your involvement in the McMinnville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as the city councelor? So, um I think the city council is involved around policym and city goals and so um my involvement with like the see you later foundation or like Lynfield, me being a wildcat and kind of being involved with um a lot of the events there and also just being a volunteer firefighter and just being around like a lot of the like public safety situations and understanding kind of how that works. um kind of gives me an understanding of like I guess a better understanding of um what safety ordinances or um things that might um I would just say like being involved in those uh type of settings have helped me be a little bit more diligent in my decision-m and understanding that you have to kind of move a little bit slowly before you just make a rash decision or um make any type of decision on a matter. And so um just community and and kind of public safety has helped me with um making better decisions that affect families and the community.

Yeah, thanks for being here. Artemis, uh city council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group but still needed to support the final decision and how how did you navigate that? So, I would say I'm trying to give a a good situation. And um I think we we all have situations where we have conflict or or strife and we have to figure out like okay what's like the common what's like the greater good for the the whole collective and so like whether it be with your partner or whether it be with um I used to have a small business called Arty Selfpers and so whether it be with talking with employees and they might not really agree with the decisions that you're making and so Um, I would say probably when I ran Arty's Helpers, uh, having my seasonal workers out and it's hot days and just trying to hear um like um how to best um get jobs done while also making sure that their morale is up and high. Um,

sorry, could you repeat the question one more time? Yeah, no problem. City Council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group but still needed to support the final decision? How did you navigate that?

So, okay, thank you. So, a different perspective than the group and still Okay. Um, I would say guess that's a a tough question. Um, for me, I feel like with when there's a situation that I might not really um agree with, I just try to learn more, ask questions more, and yeah, I just I I typically just try to understand fully what's going to h going on in the in the process. Um and through that typically either I I come around to understanding like oh there's probably a reason for why this um came through and if not then I continue to try to keep on learning. So I guess it was kind of hard because I I always just try to learn more about why something's happening. So I um yeah I yeah

you did fine. Councelor Chenn. Thank you for coming Mr. Johnson. Thank you, sir. Um, this is a three-part question. Okay, I'm I'm ready for it.

Okay. Given McMinnville's limited tax base and budget, how would you approach setting funding priorities? Are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? And what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund? That is a big one. Um, so I would say my understanding with the the city budget is I know there's a lot of areas where money gets allocated towards And um I guess in regards to um increasing money towards certain areas or departments or decreasing um given my background, I honestly would probably like listen to my peers and the team to kind of understand a little bit more about um the priorities to given I respectfully my lack of um experience in that that realm. But um I do know that the city council handles um upwards of um 100 million or a lot of money. Um, and I know there's times where we might make uh

uh may you repeat the second part of that question.

There are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? So, um, given my following of a lot of the projects that are going on in McMinnville, I would probably, um, focus more, uh, investment on finishing Third Street, um, and maybe either holding off on uh, Alpine or, um, decreasing investment there or or finishing it up. Um, but I think Third Street attracts a lot of uh the the people here and a lot there's a lot of activity there. So, I think making sure that's uh that stays up and and well is is um good. And so, I'd probably increase funding there to make sure that's well um as well as for affordable housing or just housing in general. I know there's a lot of projects um like with the the the cooperative ministries church and that project and Evergreen. And so just making sure that we have funding for um that would be u a focus. And what was the last part of that question?

I think you already answered it. I think you might have already answered it, but it's it's what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund? Around 100 million. That's my understanding. Councelor, hi Artemis. Thank thanks for being here.

Hey, councelor Giri. Um, what do you see as the top three issues facing the city of McMinnville over the next five to 10 years and how would you begin to address those near-term if appointed? Stop three. Okay. I would say um from attending board meetings and just kind of seeing um what the the school board has been talking about, I know that enrollments have been a little bit low. So I think that itself is probably a a big uh concern. Um and affordable housing of course has been on everyone's mind as well. And so if the cost of living is going up and people can't live here and people are also leaving or kids aren't staying, I think those are two big issues that are kind of going hand in hand. And I think also a third portion is just getting people. I think McMinnville is a great community and I love it for that the aspect that we all help each other, but I think it could still also be improved um where we can get more youth or um college or high schoolers involved with people in the community. And so I think that would be my third um problem is just how do we get um McMinnville just stronger uh collectively in in involving all age groups. And so um and and I think if we do that then people would stay more and we might find more economic way or what more resourceful ways to solve issues u with the limited budget that we have. Uh many issues come before the council that require difficult decisions. At times members of the community may disagree with how you voted uh even when

you believe it was the right decision. How would you handle that criticism? Um, I think sometimes we have to make hard decisions and sometimes people aren't going to understand fully why decisions are made. And so I I still think it is important to make sure that um we're hearing and listening to the people and their concerns to make sure that we're not missing things. And so for me myself, uh I would always just be asking um or reviewing I guess the decision that was made and and and getting feedback from the people on um to just to either understand how to better clarify decisions so uh it could be better received or again just understand if I'm moving in the right direction. and um putting the best policy forward. So yes, just constantly not being impulsive with decisions being made and always seeking feedback or insight from individuals to make sure that I'm putting my best foot forward in the the policies I make. The city city council packets can be extensive, often several hundred pages, and require timely and thorough review. How have you handled similar responsibilities and what approach would you take to stay prepared? So, um, improv is not really my my strong suit. Um but I would say when it comes to diligent things like this, obviously being um um prepared is um very important since our decisions and our discretion uh impact thousands of individuals in this in the city. And so

um situations where I've done something like this, I don't think I've respectfully ever had to digest packets of that size. But um on the last meetings I tried to talk with Heather on other packets that she has so I can kind of get a feel for like what you guys have to be prepared on cuz she's like oh once we're done with this it's kind of gone. I was like well I would love to take it. So I started the process of like reading and going through and just trying to digest that information to be better prepared. So, I guess my honest answer is um I haven't had much experience with digesting information like that, but I would make sure that um I would uh thoroughly read the the packets and also ask for for guidance on things that I need clarity on to make sure I'm as prepared as possible for each setting. If so, what is informing that decision?

Sorry, could you say that one more time? Yes, I can. If appointed, do you intend to seek election to the position in November? And if so, what's informing the decision? Uh, I would say for sure um because I've always wanted to serve um my fellow community and so the fact that this opportunity opened presented itself I was quite spry maybe a little bit too much so um and so uh if I got the opportunity to humbly serve with you guys and for the community I would do everything in my power to um learn the skills and competencies necessary to um serve my my community.

Great. So, that was the last question. So, is there anything else that you would like us to know? Um, I would I would just say that um I think what you guys are doing is as a as a as a hard and um but very rewarding job. And I think that the teamwork that you guys have is is really amicable and awesome and and I know that if I had an opportunity to serve as well, I know that um you guys would help whoever um shape best into the the role to serve the the community. So, thank you for your time. Thank you so much. Have a good night.

Okay, let me get all your notes. Okay, everybody good? Okay, Josh Dylan, thank you for being here and thank you for your patience as well. It is a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Certainly. All right. Are you ready to go? Check one, two, money order. Yep.

Okay. What steps have you taken to understand the issues facing McMenville and how have you prepared yourself to effectively serve as a city counselor?

Yeah, so I am a recent McMinnville transplant I would say uh within the past two years. Um so it's not necessarily the quantity but more so the quality for my for my experience. Um, I was living I I grew up in Western New York, but I've lived in the Portland area for the past um, 12 years or so. Um, but where I was before, I kind of felt like I was passing through. And it wasn't until I moved to McMminville where I really felt a connection with uh, the people that I see every day, walking their dogs, um, waiting for the bus stop, uh, walking their kids to school. Um and then it's really uh extended beyond that with the businesses um the whether it's food uh clothing bookstores u but I really feel like I'm a piece of the puzzle here. Um and I think that it speaks to kind of the the foundation that has been built uh of decades of this wonderful place. So I kind of like clicking into that um I like to read. I like to listen uh talk to people, ask questions, see what's on their mind, what's um what's top of mind, what's a concern on the the news register or anything like that. Um but yeah, so it's a long-winded way to say that it's um the steps to prepare, I think, are just uh being a part of it and um actively involving myself in this place day by day.

Josh, thank you for being here. Of course. Can you describe your involvement in the McMinnville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as a city counselor?

Yeah. Um, it's kind of like a a double click into what my previous answer was, but I have um become a volunteer at the McMinnville Tool Library. It was something I um did gosh I think it was last summer where I had some free time to do that. Um, and not only have I been a transplant, but I'm I kind of married into the family. I'm not going to share who the last name is just yet. I'll wait to see uh the deliberations afterwards, but um um no, a family of of teachers actually. And so I've I've gotten to learn a lot of the the mythology that comes with the community because that's important too, right? It's all a part of the culture. And um so I think like just again being an engaged and involved person um having your head up when you walk into places, asking people how they're doing, understanding um what that answer is uh beyond the surface level. That's that's important to me and I think has kind of been the sum of all the parts of why I'm sitting in front of you today. Yeah, Josh, thanks for being here. Uh, city council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group, but still needed to support the final decision and how did you navigate that?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I prescribe firmly to the the mantra of disagree and commit. Um, in my professional life, I do um call center management. And so I'll tell you about a time where I feel like I had to really uh lean into that and and what the result of that decision was. Um so when I first started um working with a vendor in the call center space in my industry, um my manager asked me to basically give him a a toptobottom analysis of this vendor. Um how do they operate? What's their recruiting techniques etc etc. um and ultimately gave me the task of figuring out like what is it going to take to scale this vendor. So I go down the rabbit hole. I'm doing um independent research. I am looking on um online to learn more about their, you know, street cred and things like that. I'm interviewing people um that are involved in the company and I'm talking to my colleagues as well who might be in different functional areas. And so when it came to the recommendation, um, again, this is with my manager saying, "What is it going to take to scale?" I actually had a different opinion and that was, uh, not only should we not scale with this company, but I actually think they're a bit of a pyramid scheme and kind of against our values. And so my recommendation is that we actually stop working with them. The feedback I received at that time was well that's not something that we can put in front of the uh businesses the business unit director because this is a passion project of hers. She actually likes to go sailing with the owner of this company. Um I'm sure you've experienced something like that in in your lives as well. So I had to get behind that. Um I was sort of outranked in that um scenario. But, uh, there's a caveat to the story

is that a few months after that decision was made and I had to, you know, get in line a bit, there was a a ProPublica expose about this company and their practices. Um, and shortly thereafter, we stopped working with them. So, a little bit of a told you so, but um, it felt good to um, all's well that ends well, I guess. May I ask a clarifying question? Yes. What was the mantra you said at the beginning? Disagree and commit. Disagree and commit. Commit. Yeah. Thank you. So, don't don't hold your brow to it like you can rally. Councelor Chennowith, you're up. Yeah.

This is a three-part question. Um, and thank you, Mr. Dylan, for coming and for your patience. Given McMinnville's limited tax base and budget, how would you approach sending fund setting funding priorities? Are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? And what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund?

Sure. Let's uh work backwards a little bit. Um, I will say that I'm learning more about the size and scope of the general fund, but from my understanding, it's um just shy of maybe 40 million. Um, I believe the budget operationally is around 115 to 125 million. But I think one of the biggest things that stand out to me upon first glance is the uh the year-over-year growth of revenue being roughly 3%. However, expenses continuing to be a little bit higher than that at 6%. Um, and so whether or not those numbers are true or accurate or down to the tea, um, I know I have a lot to learn, but I think that points to other parts of your question about how do you target and increase funds for operations. Um, you could I I think that there's probably a resume in your packets, but let's just say I work for a company that rhymes with shmear TNT and uh with that I would target a transit lodging tax. Um, one of the things that I am thankful and fortunate and frankly privileged to do here is I am a host. Um, I have an attached ADU studio to my home. Um, so it's been a really awesome journey getting to welcome travelers um from actually I've just had my first international guest uh right now uh pro in town. Um and so that has been a really wonderful thing. Um it is not something that I would bulk at if we needed to increase the percentage of of what the city uh takes or or requires as part of that transient lodging tax. I also think some of the hospitality in the industry is prime to kind of go hand inand with how we could increase those uh together.

Um and I think then what I would increase uh and or kind of put those funds to use for uh would I would want to focus more on public works, parks, trails, and infrastructure. Uh it's not lost on me that um we have a a a city with a river. Uh, however, getting to that river is very hard to do. Um, you might not see it, but I have a fish on my arm. I I personally would like to get out there to the water more often. Um, and so I think that that could be an other uh creative and interesting avenue that maybe through boating fees, parking permits, things like that. Um, once we got to that end goal, um, that would be another way to uh focus on our resources and increase some taxes in the same uh same swoop. Thank you.

I'm awake. Thank you for your time, Josh. Thank you for being here. Um, what do you see as the top three issues facing McMinnville in the next 5 to 10 years? And if appointed, how would you work to address those?

Sure. Um, I'm going to try to stay rooted locally. Uh but I do think it's uh local is national sometimes and and one of the things that stands out to me is our rapid growth of climate change. Um dealing with that whether that be uh this I was just at up at Mount Hood this past weekend and the lack of snowpack is very alarming. Um I think wildfire preparedness is something that whether we like it or not could be in our back door. Um, so that would might be a little bit of a stretch item that I would say, but I I also believe that proper preparation prevents poor performance. And so if we are not ready uh for the next thing that is going to come knocking at our door, um what is it the the the great poet Mike Tyson has a quote that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Um we need to be ready uh for whatever it is. Now, to click into some more options here, I think the second thing that I see is uh I see a lot of vacancies on Third Street since I've moved in. Um and I think that that could be a symptom of maybe barriers to entrepreneurialism. Um and so making uh small businesses more attainable to people definitely stands out as a an area of focus. And um the I I think the third thing I would say then would be well actually I'm going to just make one quick amendment to the third street item. I'm going to lump Alpine in there as well. And so I'll focus on or I'll kind of bucket that to say uh commercial development with a a lens on um community enhancements and um assets. So then my third thing would be housing and resources. Um, it's funny. I I mentioned that I lived in Portland for so long, but the first time I had somebody asleep in my front yard was when I moved to

McMinnville. Um, and you know, I I've kind of made jokes here and there, but that's that was a really hard thing to deal with because that was somebody who uh didn't have a place to to take a nap or crash out and they chose my front yard. Um, and and I think that's something that we could do better uh with what's available to people who who really truly need some resources. Very good. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for being here.

Um, many issues come before the council that require difficult decisions. At times, members of the community may disagree with how you voted even when you feel it was the right decision. How would you handle that criticism?

Sure. Uh I have a lot of experience in people telling me that I was wrong. Um in fact in my before in in my in my role now uh before I was there I was a frontline customer service agent working for a travel company. With that uh you are inherently making it's a it's a two-sided marketplace. Um one party will probably feel uh wronged by the decisions that you make at that time. um speaking to different guests or hosts or you know making a decision like you know I have to take your payout uh because of xyz reason um that's a difficult thing to to convey and it's met with friction um so that's one aspect of it but I think how you how do you overcome that is to speak plainly um speak confidently and to know your why you really need to stand behind the thing that you're saying um otherwise it'll just be a house of cards that'll that'll come crashing down. And then I think when you're met with somebody who has a differing opinion or maybe um is contentious to the decision that you took, there's something to that. Um people don't come to be loud uh boisterous for their health. Um but there's a reason that is is pushing them and drawing them to get involved and to say something. Um, I think the last thing I would say to your question is that I I don't like to design processes that impact people without involving people in that decision-making process. Um, and so getting the right inputs ahead of time before um that that moment comes that you you vote or or make that decision. Um, putting in the work ahead of time to understand all the different aspects and sides of the coin. Your last sentence tease right into my next question. City council packets can

be extensive, often several hundred pages and require a timely, thorough review. How have you handled similar responsibilities and what approach would you take to stay prepared?

Definitely. Um, so where I could see that is like first and foremost is it would be my responsibility to be knowledgeable. Um, I don't like not knowing what we're talking about. And so I think that um, setting aside time to review, ask questions, learn about jargon. Frankly, I think that some of these things can be very dense or heady. Um, I know that personally speaking, I I deal in a lot of contractual compliance. Um, I'll be the first to say it's not a New York Times bestseller. uh reading these very dense amendments and exhibits and clauses, but it is my job to understand how to use that and what that information means. So, how whatever it takes to get from here to there um is what I owe it to myself and the people that I represent. Um, the other thing that I would say is that I have a a knack or um a desire for taking complex issues and trying to break them down in a way that makes sense to kind of like I'll say the lowest common denominator, but I don't mean that in a negative way. Um, but we don't have to use fancy language or this jargon and we can say it in a way that uh really resonates and people are are understanding of. Um, so that's something that I'm drawn towards and I think that with a, you know, multiple hundred page packet, um, doing the work and and being able to to stand behind that in a way that makes sense for the majority would be, um, how I would approach that.

If appointed, do you intend to seek election for the position in November? and if so, what's informing your decision?

Well, I'll say when I walked in, I saw a couple head in hands. Uh it seemed like the first agenda topic was going for a long time. Um so, no, I think that I'm undecided at this point. Um I see this as a wonderful and rare opportunity to to learn um and see if it is kind of what I expect it to be or if if the perception meets reality. Um, I think that it would be some a quick lesson and then at I would very quickly um get a sense of if I wanted to do this more full-time uh come November. Yeah.

So, those were all the questions. So, is there anything else that you would like us to know about you?

Yeah. Thank you. Um, I think the last thing I'll mention is that um right before this I was at a um an author a Portland author's book talk at Lynfield. Um, and he said something that really resonated with me and I've kind of been like sitting with it. Um, but this is somebody who uh was born in Egypt, grew up in Canada, um, and now lives in the United States for however long. And he and he talked a little bit about the concept of uh, home isn't necessarily always where you belong. and kind of tying it to some of the initial questions that were um presented to me this evening is that I want to be able to help people feel like they belong. Um and I think that this gives me an opportunity to do this uh and kind of increase my sphere of influence in that regard. Uh because I can definitely say that I haven't always felt that way in the past. Um but this would be an opportunity to uh to make that greater impact. So that's the last I want to share. Uh thanks for having me and thank you.

Thank you for your time. Appreciate you coming. Okay, get your notes finished. One more. You're my noteaker. Okay, last one up. Had to wait the longest. Katie Russ,

thank you for your patience. You've been sitting there, so you know the drill on how we're going to do this. So, I'm gonna ask the first one. What steps have you taken to understand the issues facing McManville and how have you prepared yourself to become a city counselor?

So, I've been a realtor for over a decade and primarily sold real estate in McMinnville. So, I've known about zoning ordinances and new developments and things that are happening with the actual makeup of McMinnville. Uh, and then I would say probably about two years ago, I started avidly watching MCMTV and watching your meetings so that I could become way more um, acquainted with what's going on because as an agent, you do get asked all the time what's happening in town, what's coming next, where's the next development, where is housing going to be as we do have a housing shortage in McMinnville and an affordability issue. So, you do get asked a lot of those things. Uh, and just talking talking to you, talking to to Chris Chennowith, trying to become more acquainted and understand why did that conversation end the way that it ended? Why was that question asked? I don't understand. Because I feel like there's a lot of stuff that happens during your meetings where maybe someone who isn't a counselor or a mayor maybe perhaps won't understand.

Thank you for being here. Can you describe your involvement in the McMminville community and how those experiences have prepared you to effectively serve as a city councelor?

Sure. Uh, so I've been really involved with chamber for many years. Uh, so and I've been on many different boards and organizations. Uh, so I know how boards work. I know how to vote properly and all that good logistical stuff. Uh, but I also have used it as a way to get to know as many people in town as possible. It's helped me learn how to listen even if I don't agree with what's being said and to be polite and clear. Uh I've also learned through my participation on boards that uh it's for the greater good, not just for your good. I'm probably mishing all the questions together. I'm sorry because I've just been listening to them. So I do apologize for that.

You're fine. I apologize for us sitting with our heads. Oh, you're fine. No, you're totally fine. Turn.

Yeah. Thank you, Katie, for being here. Uh, city council operates as a collective decision-making body. Can you describe a time when you had a different perspective than the group, but still needed to support the final decision and how did you navigate that? So I will say serving on different boards that has happened to me and uh typically the way we I fix that is through education because there's a reason why the group is feeling a different way than I'm feeling most of the time. Either I don't understand maybe they tried something in the past and I wasn't aware of it. So I do try to educate myself but I also try to think about the greater good. Uh working with people buying homes and selling homes. Sometimes they do things that I don't agree with and I just have to give my calm opinion and then go go with the flow

every time

you think I'd learn but you know like s not turning on the mic it's it's a long learning process. Um, Mrs. Russ, thank you for coming and sorry for the wait, but thank you for being patient. This is a three-part question. Given McMinnville's limited tax base and budget, how would you approach setting funding priorities? Are there areas where you would consider increasing or decreasing investment? And what is your general understanding of the size and scope of the city's general fund? So, I know the general fund is about $38 million, and I know that your total budget is right around $122 million. Uh, and I've been staring at this pigraph on a budget committee agenda uh that I found for hours. Uh, I would continue spending with police because I want to feel safe. I'd want more park and wreck spending done because as a mother who has two small children, I want more things to do. There needs to be more family activities in town. we need to support family growth and families wanting to move here because we do have um enrollment going down per the birth rate uh from what I understand. But perhaps if we have more things to do, we can g get more families and get more children and the snowball then occurs. Right.

Mayor Morris, ask a question. What What was your first answer on that one? I I missed uh I said the general fund to my understanding is about 38 million. The total budget's 121. I wanted um to keep spending for police because I want to feel safe. Okay. And then I wanted uh park and wreck so that there's more families. Okay. Thank you, Katie. Thank you for being here. Thanks for your time. Yeah.

Um what do you see as the top three issues facing McMinnville in the next 5 to 10 years? And if appointed, how would you work near-term to address those? So, I think the budget's going to be an issue, but I feel like spending is always going to be a problem. Whether that's you're spending towards something that someone else doesn't want or we don't have enough money in the budget to fulfill all the things that we need to fulfill. So, I feel like that's always going to be like a happy medium of back and forth. Housing and employment were two of my other things that I that I think are going to be an issue. Housing, I know we're working really hard on more highdensity housing, but from my perspective, and it's great. It's rentals and it's it's great. Uh, I do want more home ownership to be available in McMinnville and uh, not just available like the houses there, but able to be purchased because they have a job in McMinnville that pays them enough money in order to purchase that home.

Hi Katie, thanks for being here. Um, many issues come before the council that require difficult decisions. At times, members of the community may disagree with how you voted even when you believe it was the right decision. How would you handle the criticism? Quietly. I mean, I I would do my best to make sure that people are informed as to how I came to whatever conclusion that was, but I do know that most of the time you just need to be quiet and listen and let them get their their thoughts out and then you move on.

City Council packets can be extensive, often several hundred pages, and require timely, thorough review. How have you handled similar responsibilities and what approach would you take to stay prepared?

So, every board I've served on was a new experience because it was never the same board multiple times. Uh, and when you do that, you have to learn what they do, what their motto is, their vision, what they've done in the past. So, I really do try to take as much time as possible to learn from fellow counselors, from the mayor, from city employees as to what my position or job rather is and and what I should be focusing on and what I should not be focusing on. Uh, but I also am self-employed. So, reading and educating myself in, you know, building up to that meeting would be something that I would also do. Mike, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

It's in El Paso, Texas. Thank you. You're welcome. It's far away from here. If appointed, do you intend to seek election to the position in November? And if so, what's informing that decision? Uh, I would definitely seek election because I feel like if I'm going to go through truly all this um nervous, anxious feeling I've had since 5:30, um, then I would I would definitely run. And I think that in order to truly fulfill the position, I'd have to run because March, November is not enough time to really know what you're doing. Those were all the questions. I know. It's okay. It's 9:30. It's fine.

Yeah. So, do you have anything else that you want to share with us? Uh, just that I, like I said, I'm I'm a realtor full-time. I have been for for over 10 years. So, I I know the land, the area really well. I'm a mother of two small children, so I have kids in our school districts, one at Patton and one at uh oh my WAMIT. Sorry, I almost said Columbus. Uh, and so I'm I'm very much into what's going on in our schools as well as what's going on in our in our area and our town. I care about it. I'm an entrepreneur within our town. I want to see it grow and thrive and and really benefit everyone. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much.

Okay. So, the council will now have the opportunity to deliberate on the applicants. We are scheduled to make an appointment later this evening, but if we can't come to a consensus and need more time to deliberate, we will continue deliberations and reschedule the appointment to Tuesday, April 14th, regular city council meeting. The new appointment appointee will be sworn in at that meeting. So, April 14th. So, right now, we are going to deliberate. Yes.

Okay. If anyone needs those need a little break before we talk. Let's wait just a moment for councelor Gary to get back. What time is it? 9:26.

Yeah. S didn't believe me when I told him this was going to be a long night. You told me I was right. Yeah. Okay, we're all back. So, let's start throwing some things out there. Questions, concerns, ideas. Thought you guys would have had that figured out. We were waiting for you. Strong points. Where's the council?

We're all here. Anybody? Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you to everyone that that came tonight and put in the effort because it is an effort and and in a way you got to experience some of that uh prior to uh this portion of the meeting. So, I I appreciate you all uh coming for that and and getting a little bit of a taste and and I've definitely um had some experience meeting some of these uh folks at our meetings. Um, and I also really appreciate the the desire to um, educate yourselves and be a part of the meetings. And and I'm just want to say since I got the microphone first that uh, that I would love to see each and every one of you continue to be a part of the community and continue to be a part of the committees and we're always looking for more committee members. So, um, we'd love to have you continue on. So, um, with that being said, um, I knew this was going to be a hard decision. So,

have some more discussion before. Yeah. Well, yeah. So, I'm just trying to see if there's something constructive that I could add at this moment in time. Okay. You had to look like you were ready to make a motion and I Oh, no, no, no. Nope. Like, don't give me that look right now. Councelor Gary, do you want to

um I would just add to some thought process I've had in deliber deliberations when we appoint counselors, which we this second time I've sat up here and had to do this. Um, you know, when I when we all run for office, we're sharing our vision of the community that we want to help create and we're asking the community to pick us and and think that the our vision is is the vision they also want to live in and share. And so now the entire electorate is us up here on the dis and and what comm and with us making a decision what community that I heard shared tonight from all the interviewees do I want do I want to live in? do I want to work with? Do I want to help create? Um, what do I think best balances this council out and um and thinks of things we aren't thinking of, helps with efforts we're working on, and adds new ideas and elements and considerations to the table. And I've heard I've heard elements of that throughout um all the all the applicants tonight in different ways. Um, so I think I think we have a uh an embarrassment of riches and choices here and and I'm just still processing on h how it best fits with what we have going on and and um and the individual applications. So I'm trying to kind of think of a top two or three to help maybe refine a a more better conversation. Um but that's kind of where I'm at so far is how how I'm making a decision.

Okay. Councelor Tosta, do you want to share anything? Yeah, sure. Um, I look at this more this is essentially a job interview and so I'm trying to figure out what what is it that we are in need of? What what is it that's missing? Uh, what did we lose when uh councelor Payne resigned? Um, there there's a lot of things that we need to look at. Um, what what kind of gaps are we trying to fill and where can we get better? Uh, there's a lot of people that are highly qualified uh this evening. So, I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for each of you for coming out, putting yourself out here. It's a challenge. I know it is. And sitting at that table is no fun. So, thank you. Uh it is nice. This is a big position. And so, it is nice to have people that are experienced in some kind of a a committee, a commission, some local uh volunteer position like I don't know what. Name anything downtown that you see all the time. Um it's nice to have people that have had that experience and have also um experienced uh the challenge when you're trying to come to an agreement with everyone as well as you can and then also realizing that you're not going to win every battle and you're going to have to concede and support the greater good. And for me, I've narrowed it down in my mind to a couple of candidates in the room tonight that fit those um qualifications that I'm seeking for the the job interview essentially. So, I'll keep that to myself right now, but I'd like to hear others opinions as well.

Okay. Councelor Peralta, do you want to share anything? No, not just yet. Mayor, thank you. Councelor Chenwith, anything?

I'm loving the dance at this point. Um, and I can I can get in there as well. I I I would first like to say thank you for all five of you. Um, you kind of got a a real good taste what city council looks like uh today. Um, and uh so I appreciate you u being willing to to bite into that apple even after sitting here through all that. Um, and um I I concur. I came in with a kind of a similar mindset to Zach. I think with with looking for things that we can add um perspectives that we don't necessarily have with us five um that that would help to shape and and form us going forward. And I also saw several candidates that I think fit that bill, bring a unique and different perspective to the table. Um I think I'm probably down to two, maybe three as well. Um so yeah, thank you guys for coming. I just have similar um that you know it's an important position that takes a lot of time probably more time than people realize and um early meeting so being able to make a five o'clock meeting a 5:30 meeting a short a special session meeting um you have to have a flexible schedule in order to do it and to do it right because doing it on Zoom just isn't the same as having somebody in a room. So, I would hope that there that we can find somebody that is committed to being here, which it sounds like all of you are. Um, I liked the thought of hearing that people are going to be part of the community, listen to the community. I think that's a very important part of what we do. You get a ton of emails, try to respond to those, but also walk downtown or walk the highway um and visit all the different um people. I like the fact that somebody that has served on a board

before because there are the components of Robert's rules. Um the process some of them as you can see tonight doing a public hearing were a little tricky. That was my first public hearing so I had to work my way through it. But um we have this council right here. We all have different points of view and we have different priorities of what we personally like but I think we have worked very well together to come to agreements um which is really important to me. The unity of a board whether we agree or disagree is really important. So I too kind of have gotten two or three in my head that I have just based on the conversations I think would be the best fit. So, I don't know if we want to start s Do you want anything yet?

I mean, I I the only thing I wanted to say is thank you all for coming. I just didn't want to repeat the same thing that my colleague said, but um I will just say um you know, you've been through a five-hour meeting and there's plenty of those on city council. So, whoever gets selected um good luck to you.

Like councelor Cunningham said is even there's five of you, only one's going to get selected, right? So the other four of you don't not participate in city activities because there are other openings. Um there are other committees and just coming and listening to city council is important. Okay, somebody want to let's try to narrow this down. Okay. I um we can or just throw a name out there and then we can put

Okay. Give us your top three and then we'll see how we all fair with you.

So, my top three um and let me say this. I I know of or know four of you. One, this was literally the first time I've ever seen you. Um, so not that that's bad or good, just interesting. Um, so my top three are the one that I've never seen, which is Josh Dylan, um, Katie Russ, and Carson Benner. Okay. So, we have top three. Anybody wanted anything different than that? Let's just start right there.

Um, my top three in in the order of listed in our uh agenda is Carson, Richard, and Josh. My top three uh as well that same way is Carson, Richard, and Katie, councelor Takowski. Yeah. Uh my top my top two. I'm not I'm not giving you three. Okay. Uh it's uh Russ and Benner. So Carson and Katie. Yeah.

Councelor Palta. Uh yeah, I was in order. You need Mike in order. I was Carson, Richard, and Josh in the order given in the uh packet. My three are Katie, Josh, and Carson. So if we take that Carson got it from every one of us. So, let's kind of Anything else? Any further discussion? I mean, we don't have a motion. What do we think? Well,

so are we narrowing it down to a top two for more refined deliberation? Let's do that.

And I and I'm hearing Carson was a comment amongst all of us. and who would we like to elevate for a as a sort of our second in discussion and if I can stall long enough you're going to be able to tally all those votes is not votes straw polls straws David thank you all the straws provided guess I need to stall a little bit longer so it it sounded like it was Uh, five for Carson, four for Josh, and four for Katie, and three for Richard, I believe.

Great. So, we have Carson now um with Josh and Katie.

So, from my perspective, um Josh, I really um appreciated the preparation that you did and the expertise that you're bringing into the community. Um, and I I just feel like um the the short time that you've spent in the community kind of puts you down a little bit below for me anyway for from below Carson who has um been an active member and in several boards and and uh actually helped as I recall pass the uh the most recent street bond that we passed as a city. I remember him actually calling me personally asking for my vote on it before I was on city council. So, uh, I I I personally think Carson is the strongest applicant just based on his, um, public service to the community, his connection to all of the organization, so many partner organizations that that we, uh, are connected to, and his experience in in passing previous uh, bond measures um, and service on the school board, I think, would serve us well given that we have uh, the recreational bond in front of us and and significant um financial issues that he's had experience taking to voters before.

Any other Oh, councelor Takowski.

Yeah. So, um yeah, I I want to I want to say I do appreciate what everything that Carson's done and I think um he's a very strong candidate obviously um with all the credentials. Um the thing is that I I would like to see um I I would personally like to see uh you know Katie in there and the reason u is because she fits all of the she's checking the boxes that I'm looking to abstract. She has experience on uh you know in the Kuanas director president-elect of the Kuanas stuff. um Leptig networking group, Yamh Hill County Association of Realtors. Um PTA parent, uh she's a parent, she has children in town. Um I think that brings another great perspective because I think it's important to have representation of parents as well. So I think a lot of us have kids here. Um some of our kids are older and gone. So it's nice to have some little representation. I I also know that that's kind of what we lost with Jessica as well. Excuse me, counselor pain. Uh she brought a perspective to the dis that was different than uh some other experiences because of what she was going through uh with you know just being a parent and sometimes um having the parenting challenges. So that's important to me. Um she's also been part of the community for quite some time. Um and is out there speaking with people and you know putting her face out there for better or for worse. Um it's hard it's hard to take criticism up here sometimes when people don't seek to understand your point. They just criticize. And if uh she's out there in the real estate market, I'm sure it's not easy. Um the other thing that she brings is the housing portion of things.

She understands zoning. She understands housing. She understands the fact that um housing is not real affordable. How to make things um affordable. Uh at least how to work within that system. And she said she's willing to bring that to the table. And I think that's important as well. And I'm just going to call out the elephant in the room here. Um we've got five men sitting up here right now, right? And we're I'm thankful to have you uh mayor because you know you represent I'm the mom.

Well, here's the thing. It's Is it fair for us all to Is it fair for all the men sitting up here to represent every woman in the city of McMinnville? I don't think so. I can't I can't empathize with all of their positions because, you know, I'm obviously not a woman. So, not that it matters a whole lot in the decision process, but it does bring a perspective that we don't have today. So, I I'm I'm a I'm a fan of Katie. I appreciate your perspective. Um, and as well,

anybody else want to jump in? Sure, I'll jump in. Geneva,

I thank you for saying that, uh, councelor Takowski. I it is the elephant in the room. Um, and you know, one of the things I two things I really valued about counselor Payne, there's probably more, but two that come to mind off top of my head. Um, one of them was her realtor knowledge. Um we went through some things over the last couple of years that that knowledge proved very helpful um and was not something represented by any of us that are currently on this dis. Um I found myself leaning in to the perspective and knowledge she had from that position. Um, I said at the outset the thing, one of the things I was looking for is somebody that's bringing a perspective that's different than what we already have represented here. Um, because ultimately that's how we're going to get the best voice for our community is a variety of different opinions, a variety of different viewpoints. And um yeah, when it came down to it, and the second thing I really valued in Jessica was that she had had some uh very difficult and trying experiences um from a and could bring them from a feminine perspective because that's not something I relate to really well. Um, so I I I think we need that council voice. Um, I think we're remiss to put a sixth ban up on this council. Um, so I would also support that.

Thank you. Um, that is a I I don't have a vote in this. Um, but I think um I kind of like that thought that there might be a female perspective up here besides my own, especially since I don't get a vote most of the time. Um, I also but you know, Carson's awesome as well. I think you both have a lot of community input and um I see you at a lot of events and um yeah, I think I'd be That's just my comments. Anybody else?

Yeah. I mean, I we'll be lucky with anybody that's in this room. All right. Go ahead, Counc. Yeah. I'd like to move uh Carson uh to fill the position. So, I have a motion on the floor for uh Let me just make sure. A motion to appoint candidate Carson Benner to Ward three city council vacant seat. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any further discussion? Claudia. Councelor Giri. Hi.

Councelor Cunningham. Sorry. Hi,

Councelor Tokolski. Name Councelor Chennowith nay. Council President Peralta. Yes.

Uh the motion passes by a vote of three eyes's and two nazs. Congratulations Carson Bidder. You're our ward three counselor. And thank you again to all of you that came tonight and interviewed and took your time. Appreciate it. Mayor, do you want to adjourn the meeting? What was that? Oh, during the meeting. I'm out of here. 9:47, you need to turn in your books to Claudia. So please