Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Hi everybody. Oh.

Oh my gosh. Hello. So, Bill, do we have a quorum?

I think we do. Uh, we have, uh, is Jerry's the only one who haven't seen it. Oh, wait a minute. Jerry's on here. Oh, there he is. There he is. You flew under the radar. Zoe, I'll leave it. I believe we have a full board.

Okay. Is everybody who's attended the meeting visible on this Zoom? I'm not just because I haven't gotten my camera going and I don't know why because I did a Zoom two days ago and it was. So, if you don't mind, I'm just not visible. Any anyone attending, regardless of whether we can see their camera, is on the participants list, which you should be able to show from your Zoom uh your Zoom menu, right? I expected some other people and then they're not showing. Is it possible that they're if they if they uh attend the meeting, they should be evident at the top of the screen? Yes.

Okay. All right. So, we've got a a full quorum. This is the Maynard Zoning Board of Appeals. I'll call the meeting to order. It's 7:03 p.m. on August 25th. our uh members here present. I'm Paul Shiner, the the chairman of the zoning board. And Brad, introduce yourself. You're on mute. Brad Schultz, member.

Okay. John John Corville, member. Now, John, you are going to be uh recusing yourself on this one. Yes. Yes. Okay. Lesie U Leslie Bryant, zoning board member. Okay. Jackie Jackie Downing, um alternate member tonight. And Jerry Jerry Calbert, zoning board member.

Okay. And so just to give you the statistics here, I keep getting the numbers mixed up. Bill, to pass a vote, we need how many out of how many? Um, Bill has uh Bill is trying to rejoin the meeting at the moment. All right. I can answer I can answer the question, Mr. Chair. This is Lisa Me Town Council. You need four votes to approve a special permit. Thank you. And we will have five how many people voting? Five. Um, so Miss Downing suggested that she was an alternate, but um, if she's attended the other meetings, then you have five with her. That's right. Because John is recused.

Correct. All right. So, that's the story. And and just to give you an introduction, uh that's Lisa me, town council, and she's here to keep me on the straight and narrow and to make sure that what we do is uh appropriate. If you want to say anything else, Lisa, or was that okay? No, that's it. Thank you. Great. I have a question. And on on just let me finish the introductions, please. Okay. And on the other uh cameras here, we got town staff. We got uh Zoe. Hi, I'm Zoe Peele. I'm assistant town planner. And has Bill rejoined us yet?

He uh he is trying. He We're having some internet connectivity issues at the office today. Okay. So, while he continues his trial, uh we have uh it looks like half a dozen other people here. Could they please introduce themselves? Start with Graham. Uh Graham Lombardo. Uh so, I'm live right behind Dan. What is right behind uh Nine Summit Street. Yeah. Thank you. property looks down overd.

Wonder if someone could mute themselves if they're not speaking. Yes, my name is Amanda. I live at 28 Walnut Street. Um Denny's property and ours actually share a driveway. We're right next door. Thank you. Uh, next one that I see on on my selection of images is Michael Riley. Hi, good evening. I'm Michael Riley. I'm an associate attorney with me Talaman Costa and Lisa asked me to sit in and observe tonight. Welcome. Uh, then we have a a Brad Jackson, excuse me, Bernard Jackson.

No problem. Paul Bernard Jackson. I'm observer thinking about joining the board as an alternate. Thank you for being here. You bet. And then we have Mark Price. Yes, I'm um also a neighbor of Danny's. We uh have an abing driveway together. We've been neighbors for 23 or so years. Um so I'm here to speak on uh our relationship. Thank you. And then we have somebody called F. Price. I'm uh Mark and Amanda's son. Um, yeah, neighbor to Danny, 28 Walnut Street.

All right, welcome everybody. So, the the the public hearing for tonight is for 3032 Walnut Street. It's been continued now. I believe this is the fourth meeting from this hearing. So, pursuant to Mass General Laws chapter 48 section five, the Maynard zoning board of appeals will hold a remote public hearing on Zoom video to hear all persons interested in the application filed by owner Daniel Cormier, 30 to 32 Walnut Street, Maynard. The subject property at 3032 Walnut Street is a two family dwelling located in the general residential uh zoning district per sections 312 and 83 of the main protective zoning bylaws. The applicant seeks a special permit approval to operate an accessory homebased business type B at 3032 Walnut Street and to allow overnight outdoor parking of two additional commercial vehicles associated with the business on the property. So, where we left off after the last meeting was a uh discussion of things that he might want to do to clean up, organize better his backyard. Um, and we conducted a site visit on that this afternoon to see what he had done. And so, here we are. is hopefully is with all your other folks here at the meeting going to be a culmination of this meeting. But let's see how we go tonight. So where do we begin? Um let's start with the applicant. Where are you Daniel?

Right here. Yeah. You have any comments you want to add? I do. I have a few. So I'd like to first address Brad Schultz directly. Is it? Well, let's let's address the meeting because we're all here at the same meeting. Yeah, Mr. Ch Mr. Chair, actually the applicant is to address any and all comments and questions through the chair.

Okay. All right, then to the chair. Um, how does a declared handyman contractor and direct geographically close competitor as well as vice chair of this board not recognize a flagrant conflict of interest and not recuse himself? I feel highly confident that his behavior is motivated by forces other than the interest of this board's activities. So, you're talking about Brad? I am.

Brad, do you have any comments to that?

Um, sure. Um, I believe that there is no conflict of interest. Um, uh, I believe Mr. Cormier has a has um much different things uh than I do and um I basically am retired and I really don't even use this my business um as uh as a source of income. It's more of a hobby for me. So there's there's um the last time I did any work in May was probably three years ago and I've done a couple of jobs this year, one one enacted this year and other than that I've done things that are for friends that were well outside the Maynard area.

Okay. May I speak? Is that I just have I just have one more thing. I was also on I was also um on the subcommittee um which um drafted the rules and which eventually became bylaws for the type A and B subcommittee. I mean type A type A and B um homebased businesses um where I worked with um Bill Krenshaw from the planning board on. Mr. Chair, might I might I suggest that if the applicant has anything to add relative to his application in front of the board that that's what he should speak to as opposed to um these other personal questions? Well, I feel that it's it's uh

Mr. Chair, I I I directed that to the chair. Okay. So, I I hear what the attorney is suggesting, Daniel, and I think it's appropriate that you respond in kind that it is questions to the board about your application, the special permit.

Okay. I just feel as though it's it's there's a fly in the soup that has other interests and that it affects my outcome and I don't feel that is a fair uh way of proceeding. Mr. Chair, the the the member has already addressed that question and my suggestion is if the applicant has anything to say to support his application to further explain it to the board, then he should outline that for the board. Otherwise, the board can move on. I I I'm lack that to the chair. Thank you.

I don't know how to do that. I'm trying to do that um to the chair. Um I don't know. Um I don't know how to proceed. I don't know what I I'm trying to create a fair proceeding and I don't know how to get that across but I'm not a lawyer. So your your application for a special permit asked for parking of vehicles, storing of your sprayer device, and a few other odds and ends that I can't recall right at this moment. So, if you have any comments or questions about that or a response to what we have learned over the last three or four meetings about that, I'd love to hear them now.

Okay. Um, how I'll address that is I have a primary vehicle that has been deemed allowed. I have two other vehicles that those are the permits that I'm look seeking to have. Um the um the third vehicle, the smallest vehicle. Um I was I had made the suggestion that I would try to register that personally. Uh what I came across was that it's not able to be registered personally because the insurance annually is more than the vehicle was that I paid. It's it's it exceeds the value of the vehicle. Um we tried nine different carriers. I cannot find any carrier to to ensure that personally they seem to be a conflicting vehicle. Uh the registry of motor vehicles actually tried rescending the registrations on those. Um I feel it's u nonsensical that that would be a uh an a an an issue with any neighbors. um the use of that while it it mitigates the use of the other vehicles in my and allowing that to come and go for all a lot of the errands that I do. So the other vehicle is the truck. So now this combination of vehicles is the way I've been for 23 years. And by having the abuters's notice put out and nobody respond with any conflicts of interest or conflict not conflicts of interest but uh any uh voice concerns about having those vehicles. Um I I don't see how that should be disallowed. with 23 years of experience. Um it's it's just I my hope is that after

all of this time and not ever having a complaint and then the abutter's notices also not garnering any um resistance or uh opportunity to voice their concerns that it should be allowed there. There is no uh call for change among my abutters. Is that is that the end of your your comments?

Uh it's not the way I I saw this envision this happening but it's what I could piece together. Um that is probably the the biggest thing is that um it's been it's been peacefully existing for all this time. It's the board that's pushing this uh um need to be permitted. The the the abuters don't seem to have any concern with it or they would have made notice during the abutter's notice. Um I I'll have to concede there, I guess. So, thank you very much for your comments. Uh my comment back to you on the 23 years of experience with no complaints means simply you were flying underneath the radar for 23 years. It has always been an issue in town that if you're running a business out of your home, you need a special permit. So that's the way it is. And so as we

go ahead at some point, am I allowed to read a statement that I prepared on on these? Well, that's that's what I asked. if you had anything you wanted. All right. Okay. So, I've got what I prepare prepared and it it goes through and it does get a bit heavy-handed for the way that I feel this has been uh conducted. it does go into um offering uh though before before you get into the details of this heavy-handedness, just remember that if you're saying things that could be inappropriate for advancing your case, it might be working against you.

I know. So, it it's I've been it's been recommended to me that I I approach this board with my hat in my hands. Um, the way that I've been so God, this is tough. I've been put under the microscope over not having the permits to have these vehicles when it was up to me to go to the town to find out that I am the very first ever to be put to these uh uh standards that they've been on the books for three years and not one person has uh uh filed an application for these permits in 3 years. There's uh uh the the application changed in that process. It's been questions have been added to that to find out if somebody is a um type B business, residential business in need of permits, but yet nothing has been put out to the town to notify them. Now, you'll tell me that it's up to the the town members to follow the the zoning board uh bylaws. Well, I can tell you that with in three years not one self-reporting of these bylaws um and and creating their permit or even asking for a permit, the word hasn't gotten out. So that how am I to be expected that with all of the businesses in town and not one showing up to uh file for a permit that I am made to uh register for this by a complainant that it seems like the tact is to wait for a resident to complain then baptism by fire

and not take into account the abutter's notices that garnered Um, well, I don't want to get a tit for tat here, uh, Daniel, but it's a pretty significant thing. Your facts are not accurate. We have had several special permits issued. I don't remember how many each year, but wherever you're getting your data, it's incomplete.

I'm getting it from Zoe Peele directly. I can clarify that which is that while we have had special permits for trade shops and for homebased businesses, we have not yet under the new scheme of zoning bylaws that were adopted in town meeting, we have not yet had an application come before the zoning board for a type B homebased business application. We have had we have had applica special permits that have been issued for homebased businesses for years under trade shop and under different special permit categories, but this is the very first that's come before this board under a type B homebased business under the newly adopted bylaw.

Thanks, Mr. Mr. Chair. I think um I'm just going to try to provide a little direction here. Um the reality is that the the bylaw exists. Town meeting approved it. It was advertised and public hearings were held on it. So, the bylaw exists and so the question I think for the applicant is um is do you have anything to add to your application that would aid in the board in making its decision? The response is always that I've had 23 years of flying under the radar. In 23 years, I've approached the town, asked what I needed in order to be compliant. I was told I needed to register with that town, which I've done and which I've maintained for all the years that I've been in business. this bylaw that apparently no one in town seems to be aware of by the lack of applications. Um is uh it just seems unfair that I would be aware of these changes. um what can I offer that would help the board in making that decision? I don't know 23 years that I've been unaware that I've needed and it's only been recently that I've needed to abide by these others. Now I'm be I'm here I'm I'm being forced to. It's how I came became aware of these uh bylaws. Um, I I I you know, there's a lot that I want to say, but it it doesn't, you know, fit your

question that you want answered. Um, it's it's so loaded, but I I'm tied to what you want, so I'll offer that. I mean, 23 years, never a complaint. Didn't know there was any permit that needed to be uh uh re, you know, requested. Um, had I known in advance, I might have better prepared and and probably followed along. I mean, I just didn't know that I needed to. Here we are. It's a complaintant that brings it to my table. I'm now defending myself against a board that I've never had any involvement with. Um, the the three vehicles, so the one is a primary vehicle that is allowed. The second vehicle I'm asking for a permit for it. It has no very little um traffic. I am a single operator among all those vehicles. I am a sole proprietor. One person can only drive so many vehicles at one time. So the primary comes and goes. The secondary is there in waiting for that one chance that it needs to go to another direct another uh location and return. The third vehicle is my little economical, you know, way of um diminishing the impacts on the neighborhood. This this car is smaller than a VW bug. It makes hardly any noise. It comes and goes. And to disallow that would only create more traffic using the bigger vehicles to bring myself around. I mean, it's just it's it seems like a smart thing to have and use to appease the neighbors. I think that's my argument. Um, the best I know how to give. Oh, thank you very much. So, we have a uh several members of the

the general public here. Is there anybody that we wishes to speak in favor of Daniel's application? I have no problem with it, Graham. So, oh, could you please identify yourself for the record? Uh, Graeme Lombardo.

So, when you say you have no problem with it, is there anything in supportive that you wish to offer? um just that he's trying to make a living and he uses it for um you know to to to make a living and um and and everything that he stated how how infrequently he uses it um it just doesn't seem to be a problem. Um and and the fact that um he's the first one to apply for this whatever it is this special license is kind of silly. Um quite frankly, I mean, especially if it this this rule that was implemented three years ago and not a single other small business owner has applied for it. Um I I find it kind of laughable that now you're holding him, you know, he's made to be, you know, an example. Um yeah, the bylaws are the bylaws. Yeah, but nobody knew about the bylaws. You guys didn't do that great of a job advertising it apparently if nobody else has applied. There's other there's other small business owners in this town that uh clearly haven't applied for it. So, Graham, just just just to to reiterate this bylaw, the town has had a bylaw in place that homebased businesses need to get a special permit, and it's been in there for at least the last 25 years, if not longer.

Uhhuh. It's just that this three-year old thing is us rewriting it to make it simpler. And it's two there's two kinds of homebased business. ones like you referenced that you don't even know they're there. That's fine. It's a matter of right. And they're the ones that disturb the neighborhood to some extent. That's type B. That's the kind that Daniel's looking for. He wants a type B homebased business. One that tends to have an outside impact to the neighborhood to some extent. Sure. That's what we're here for.

So, this is all about aesthetics though? like this is about like the number of cars in his I mean I I feel like this is it's so petty to begin with the fact that there's a neighbor that complained about the number of cars that he has nobody else has ever complained no neighbor has ever complained about it um I understand your bylaws but you know you walk down the street and there's there's tons of you know there's tons of uh uh small business owners that have multiple cars um I I you know are you to now police everybody's backyards um I I mean it it just seems seems unreasonable and and to make

to make Dan that you know the example is just kind of sad. Um you're basically handicapping somebody who's trying to make a living doing what he does and um and for no reason other than you know somebody filed some all rightious you said you said your point. What I'm what I'm trying to get at is information to support or uh be in opposition to his petition. So, if you had anything else to add, that would be great. But I don't want to get into a tit for tat kind of thing here. I'm just looking for the information from the neighbors.

The neighbors support Dan doing what he does and the number of cars that he has in his his neighborhood in in his backyard really don't affect us. Thank you. Yeah, and I'll echo that as well. I've been Dan's neighbor for 23 years. He's run his business. He keeps his yard tidy and we don't have any issue. I support his application. Just who who is that? Mr. Chair, could somebody identify themselves? I think it was Mark Price. 28 Walnut Street neighboring.

Yes, I would like to echo that. We've been neighbors with Daniel and his family since 2002. We share a driveway. We if anyone would have a bone to pick if it was an issue. I can't tell you how polite and respectful Danny and his family has been in sharing this tiny little driveway over the last 23 years. And our families have grown. There have been more drivers in and out, in and out. And never have I had an issue with Danny's business being run out of his property. Both Mark and I are also um individual business owners. We run our businesses through our house. We don't need the backyard or the driveway to do it. But I incredibly respect people who take self- responsibility for helping to support themselves and their families and to contribute to the community. And I for one I've even I've even um accidentally um done damage to his property. We have a very small driveway. I backed into his stairway once and even with that he was graceful and understanding. We we understand as neighbors and community members the importance of supporting one another. And I I feel some sadness recognizing that um because there were recent bylaws that were put into place which were unbeknownsted to to to Daniel and his family that the that this special request would be denied. Um I fully support his request.

Thank you. Is there anyone else that wishes to speak in favor? Uh, Eric Pennock. Um, I adjacent neighbor. Um, if in as much as the permit appears to be for businesses that might cause disruption, uh, I would certainly say it's no more disruptive than any other hobbyist. And in terms of traffic, I wouldn't have known the difference between an ordinary uh, resident. And where are you located? 11 Summit, the uh, Kitty Corner backyard. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak in favor of this application?

Okay, Mac.

Hi, this is Mac Hathaway. Um, a neighbor on Walnut Street. Uh, I've been living next to or up the street from uh Danny for I don't know, however long he's been there, I'm pretty sure. Uh the thing the the couple of points that I would make the as a as a former planning board member um my understanding about bylaws is they're supposed to promote civic tranquility and you know get everybody to get along. Um I can honestly say that I don't think anything that Danny's been doing uh has done anything at all to to disrupt civic tranquility. Um, if anything, this situation points up some potential uh deficits in the bylaw and that they don't recognize or perhaps are not as flexible as they need to be. Um, and we ran across this all the time back in the when I was on the board. So, it's, you know, but that's what special permits are for is to allow situations that are not problematic to to carry on. Um, I can be absolutely honest and saying I had no idea how many vehicles he had and I don't think uh a simple vehicle count can be relevant in this case because I mean if if it were problematic then I would have at least known that they were there and I had absolutely no idea. So it's clearly not a problem.

So where where on where in Walnut Street are you? I'm not sorry we're not uh Bankro Street up the cross street

two two doors away basically. Um if uh it just it just strikes me. I mean I I appreciate the the importance of having the bylaws because you got to you got to you got to have some kind of structure but this is a perfect example of a situation where we allow a variance or whatever we're going to call it or whatever we can call it to allow him to proceed because there there's absolutely no problem. One of the biggest problems we run into or we ran into and which then and all towns run into is when people try to weaponize the bylaws because they're cranky or they're they don't not happy with something when the appropriate thing is to do is put your head over the fence and say, "Hey, I'm going to bed now. It's all right if everybody settles down or whatever, whether it's partying or whether it's anything." And Danny's just not a problem that way. Uh, I don't I I wasn't standing there when all this went down, but I just I'm just not seeing it. And I don't feel like, you know, potentially destroying somebody's livelihood is is the goal of this bylaw. And the idea is to to keep as many people happy as you can. And he's doing it. There's just absolutely no question.

All right. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak in favor? Going once. Going twice. Does anyone wish to speak in opposition to his application? Thank you. So board members any questions

Lesie? Yeah. So there was mention made I don't know if it was um just kind of I don't know. Was there originally a complaint by a neighbor? Is that what started all this or I believe so. Yeah, we had a letter we reviewed, did we not? Okay, that's Yeah, believe there was original original letter and then there was a follow-up letter.

So So in fact, there has been a complaint Yeah. Individual isn't here tonight, right? Okay. Any other questions, Leslie? Um, no.

Any other board members here? Jerry, anything? Uh, Mr. Chair, no, I'm I'm I'm good. I'm good. Uh, at at this point, I think I'm good. I think I'm prepared that we uh discuss and deliberate. All right, Brad. Um yeah, I have no further questions. I'm ready to discuss and deliberate. Okay, who else? Uh where are we going? Jackie. Um I appreciate what I've heard and that people took the time to come to the meeting.

Okay. Did I miss anybody? John's recused himself. So that I believe that is the end of our fact gathering session and and so Lisa to make sure I don't say it the wrong way. What am I going to say at this point? I take a motion to close the public hearing so the board can deliberate. Thank you. Can somebody offer me such a motion? Um, I make a motion to close the uh public part of the meeting. Second. Jerry will second.

All in favor by roll call. Brad, yes. Jerry, yes. Lesie, yes. Jackie, Jackie, are you there? Jackie's muted. Try again. Still muted. Jackie, you're still hiding behind a red X.

Sorry, that was my fault. I tried to ask her to unmute and I accidentally muted her in the process. Uh Jackie, uh you should be able to unmute. try again, Jackie.

Okay, that should do it. Sorry. And your answer is yes. Okay, and I'll be a yes. All right. So, we have closed the public comment period of the meeting and now we have to deliberate.

All righty. And one thing we were looking at is all of the various conditions that are in the bylaws considering adverse effects on the proposed not outweighing the beneficial impacts. And then we have a series of criteria that the board needs to reflect upon. Does the business owner re reside on site and so forth. So board members, those are the key issues that we need to look at and I propose that we go through them. will be a little tedious, but to just go through the criteria and if we can take a vote on each one saying it's it's an issue, it's not an issue, then we can move forward and come down to what criteria we need to deal with to either restrict, approve or not approve his special permit. Okay. So the first item social, economic, community needs served by the proposal. In other words, for him to continue with his trucks and other other activities is the adverse effect not outweighing the beneficial in fact. Do you want us to vote yes or no? Or do you just want us to say no if we feel

Well, we can do it as formal or as informal. Lisa will probably tell me to do it formal. Is that right? Well, I'm I'm going to throw a little bit of a monkey wrench in here, Mr. Chair, only because the criteria that you started with are kind of the general overall criteria.

Okay. and and it it may be easier um I think if you go through the um the criteria which are your basically your findings in 8.3.62 62 which basically says does he meet the the basic requirements of the of the bylaw. So the first one being the business owner resides on site. Right? So you can the answer to that I think is yes. Right? So um I think it might be more efficient if you went through that section first and then the second group in 8.3.6.3 6.3. Um, and then back up to the general permit criteria because ostensibly if he meets those and or if you have any other conditions, then you can do the findings in the general special permit criteria.

All right. So, business owner residing on site, we're going through the requirements of 8.3.4 four for the type A which then brings in to type B because type B is more u impactful than type A. So in 8.3.4 actually 8.3 excuse me general provisions for both the business owner resides on site. Is that true? I think the answer is yes.

Yep. Uh the homebased business is incidental and secondary for use of the premises for dwelling. Yes. We agree on that.

Yes. There shall be no change in the outside appearance of the premise, including buildings and grounds that is not in keeping with the residential character and appearance of the neighborhood. That's the general provision requirement for both type A and type B accessory homebased business activities. There shall be no change in the outside appearance of the premise, building, and grounds that's not in keeping with the residential character and appearance of the neighborhood. Board members, what are your thoughts?

Mr. Chair, I guess I'll start that one off. that has been, as we're all very much aware, the the main discussion or the bone of contention was how things looked, the the appearance when you went in the up the sideyard to the backyard. I know he's requesting extra vehicle parking, but that was the main request. there were other issues. Uh to your point of fitting into the neighborhood, um we've made three site visits now. I will have to commend him. I think the yard looks quite nice. Quite nice. I think the yard, in my opinion, fits much better in the neighborhood now than it did when we made our first site visit.

Yes. That's my opinion. That's where Jackie, you were saying something. Yes, I agree. Okay, Brad.

Um, I I do agree that there's been a a great improvement. Um, however, due to the number of vehicles that he has there, there's actually four vehicles plus a tractor. Um, so it seems like it's still a it still looks like a business parking lot. And even though he's done a good job in screening some of the things, there's also a lot of of business looking materials or businesslooking equipment around. So I'm I'm I'm kind of on the fence with uh with giving that uh you know with agreeing that that is that he's met that criteria.

Okay. The next item, no equipment or process shall be used in the homebased business that creates noise, vibration, glare, fumes, electrical influence, or odors detrimental to the safety, peace, comfort, and general welfare of the persons residing in the neighborhood. Any issues with that? I have not heard of any. In the last letter, I think some noise was mentioned, but then I think we figured out that that was not the case because we discussed it and I think that criterion was met last meeting if I remember correctly.

Yeah. And and my conclusion on that the the neighbor was complaining while the the applicant was cleaning up his yard. Right. Right. Okay. So, we don't find an issue with the number four item there that I just read. Right. Right.

The homebased business shall not generate, use, or store hazardous materials or waste in quantities greater than associated with normal household use other than as approved by the fire chief. He he says he stores project waste in one of his vehicles. And so I would say that that one is an item to consider. Has it been checked? I I think it was checked. Did Mr. Cormier say because I remember discussing that as well. Well, one of our last meetings he was commenting about how complicated it is to go with half a load and takes time and all that. So, he likes to get a full load before he goes to the dump. And we responded saying something about, well, why don't you have the the uh the client get rid of the junk? And that it didn't go anywhere, but that's the kind of conversation we had one of the previous meetings.

Yeah. And I thought that there had been a a discussion not with us with Mr. Cormier with the fire department. Does anyone else remember that? Yeah. Yeah. I had commented that uh the fire department tends to require a a permit for dumpsters stored long period of time. And if he's if he's storing material in the back of his truck for a long period of time, that's up to the fire chief. And he said that the fire chief didn't care. Okay, that's what I remember.

Okay,

so next next item is vehicles parking and traffic off streetet parking provided for all of their commercial vehicles and trailers and non-resident employee vehicles. None of these vehicles should be parked on the street. I don't think that's an issue because he has plenty of backyard that he's parking his vehicles in. Any parking area shall retain the character of the neighborhood. I don't know if it does. Commercial vehicles and equipment, significant portion of the backyard. It looks commercial rather than residential use of the property is is my notes on that. Any comments,

Brad? Yeah, I I have to agree. I there's a lot of things uh items in the yard um that I don't think he's going to use as a residential. I mean, for instance, there's a a mower platform, which is I mean, it's well screened, but there's a mower platform back there and a few other things that are um you know, like a it looks like a grater blade and things that don't necessarily go to any of his equipment, I'm guessing. And I I'm and I can't see how he's using that around his house. Um especially, you know, the mower platform, which is like a power takeoff that he would put on a um on a tractor. Um I don't think he's got that much yard where he would use one of those because he does have a riding mower. Um and we've all seen that there's not a lot growing there yet. Course he's been moving a lot of dirt around, so I can understand why he doesn't have lawn yet. Um, and yeah, there's there's uh most every I mean there's a lot of area there that we've all seen which is taken up by the commercial vehicles and the tents which have a lot of the equipment in it and things like that.

Any other any other people make comments? Any board members? Am I allowed to interject to that one? No. Jerry, Leslie, Jackie, any comments?

Mr. Chair, I I mean I I would I would mirror what Brad just said. Uh there is equipment back there that I agree. I do not believe it has to deal with the business per se, nor do I believe some of it has to deal with uh personal use. But uh I will give credit to the fact that he has shielded things. So from a neighbor standpoint and a backyard standpoint, things are not as visible, openly visible as they were during our first andor second visit. Uh this visit things looked a lot neater. Granted, I'd still like to have some of the things out of there, but that's that's just my personal preference. I think it looks a lot better. I don't disagree that some of the stuff could still be taken out, but it's a far cry for what it was. Far cry. I think it looks pretty good.

Okay. Any other board members make comments? Want to make comments?

Mr. Chair, I could I just want to throw something out there. um for the board to consider. So the the this condition and a prior condition related to the commercial appearance seems to um have fluxed a couple of members. Um and so I would offer to the board um you could um think well I don't the answer is could you think of a condition that would address this um that would satisfy the board um that if the condition were maintained that the um that those criteria would be met. And the the one that comes to mind is to reduce the number of heavy accessories for a tractor and the number of vehicles, which is something that he's asking the permit for is to keep the the heavy heavy tractor and parts and the vehicles.

Mhm. Jackie uh may I just clarify a note on the application? Yeah. The uh components that are related to the excavator are not in the scope of this application, nor is the excavator itself. The the application refers to only motor vehicles and the power sprayer. That's on the application. The challenge here is that the bylaws are very clear. No heavy equip equipment. Yeah. And we did discuss that over 2,000 pounds I think.

I I only say this because of your statement that that is what was being requested. So I just want to make sure that that's that's clear. All right. Thank you. So, just to continue on, the homebased business and any related activities shall not create traffic hazards or nuisances in the public rightways. I don't see that's an issue. Any other comments on that? Motor vehicle used in conjunction with the homebased business and stored overnight on the property must be owned or leased by the operator of the business with the vehicle's principal place of garing recorded as the property address. I believe that's the case.

I believe he's shown us uh his registrations as or is not.

Yeah, as as that is there. Okay. Motor vehicles. Next item. Motor vehicles or construction equipment used in conjunction with a homebased business that are equipped with backup alarm shall not be operated on the property. Pedestrian alert sounds required by national highway traffic for hybrid and electric vehicles excluded from his prohibition. He had commented that are either defective or can be turned off and he's willing to do that. So I don't believe that's an issue. The next item, light maintenance and preventative maintenance of the homebased business vehicles and business equipment is allowed outdoors. No other repair or maintenance of the business vehicles, construction equipment or landscape equipment unless done indoors or without visible outward visible or audible evidence activity. I I don't think that's an issue here. Is that right? And the next item here, more than one homebased business may be conducted. However, the combined business related impact shall be considered when evaluating terms of 8.3. So trying to figure out what the second business is. I believe it's his power washing business because he was asking for that sprayer to be allowed and that sprayer was not for the the handyman stuff. The sprayer was for his dirty dirty house business. So that's a second homebased business.

Am I right on that, Brad? Um, I guess if you were to advertise it that way, but um, I would think that if you're running a homebased business as a handyman that that you do and you have the equipment to do all sorts of things, that's what makes you handy. So, you can do a lot of different things. So, I think that would be just a piece of equipment that he would use as part of his handyman services even even though he's got a website showing that other business. Um, well, that I don't know. I'm not privy to that. Yeah, it was in one of those uh neighborly letters. Oh, okay.

Jerry, any comments? No, I I I was going to say exactly what Brad said, but I was unaware uh Mr. Chair of of of his advertising that is a separate business. If it was a part of handyman, I agree with Brad. handyman. That's why they're called handy. They could do all kinds of things. I have no problem with that. I'd have more of a problem if it's two separate businesses. That's my comment. I thought it was all one, but if it's two, that's a different story. Lesie Jackie, any comments? Um,

well, maybe he needs to not be advertising that as a separate business, but I agree with Brad that um it seems like something that a handyman might do, but that it shouldn't be considered a separate business. Mr. Chair, may I put way? Sure, Mr. Bill. Okay. Bill N, your planning director. Um, I have not. Um, the board uh did receive the letter. Uh, he just turned herself off.

So, we Bill just killed himself. So, yeah, we're we're having some we have some some internet connectivity issues going on. Um but I think he'll be rejoining the meeting momentarily. All right. Can I say one thing about the the second business? Yes.

Um if the second business is indeed a separate entity uh that he's he's trying to do or is advertised on the website. Um does it really make a lot of difference? I mean, for for me, it doesn't make any difference because it still would fall under the handyman stuff. And I don't think he's picking up extra personnel and people working on his house uh to run the business. I think he's doing it as a sole proprietor as just having a second business. Yeah. I'm I'm looking at his his list of requests and one of them is the allowance of the 25gallon spraying equipment. Sure.

So, you can call it one business, call it two businesses. A apologies, Mr. Chair. I got booted out somehow. Yeah, you killed yourself. So, go ahead. Now you can talk. Yeah, we did hear uh this when we received the uh one of the uh uh butters that uh letters and uh staff did research this and um as of the time of application and since uh we have not been able to find any evidence there is a second business.

Well, the website was there. you just had to, you know, correct the spelling of it, but it's there. So that those were the basic criteria for type A and type B. What separates a type B homebased business is the following criteria and that I'll let me go through that list. The area of building space exclusively or regularly used by the homebased business is more than 25% of the gross floor area of the dwelling. And I I don't think that's an issue. No.

Use of an accessory building. I folks I have too many notes use of an accessory building by the homebased business. Now we've got those two u tarp tents, you know, the the car storage kind of tarps in his backyard. So there are two tarp structures used by this homebased business. Is that a big issue or not? I don't I don't think so.

Anybody else?

I I just think it adds to the uh overall um appearance of the backyard and the overall coverage of, you know, all the trucks and all the tents and all the, you know, equipment around. Okay. one or more non-resident employees working at the site at any one time. And my understanding is there are no res non-resident employees. And then the next one, non-resident employee working on site other than weekdays between 9 and 5. Again, I don't think there are any non-resident employees. The next item, customers, clients, patients, students, other patrons on the homebased business. I don't think there are any more than two business related vehicle visits per day or more than 10 visits per week other than business related vehicle trips by residents of the dwelling and delivery vehicles. Again, I don't think that's an issue. Stop me. Anybody there on the board? If we if I'm missing one, more than two customer, client, patients, or other patrons of the business on premises at any given time. Again, I don't think that's an issue. Um, use of more than a total of one on street parking space by customers, clients, patients, so forth. I don't think that's an issue. the delivery or distribution of products and materials related to the homebased business by other than a passenger motor vehicle and so on. I don't think that's an issue. The next item J more than one commercial motor vehicle and one trailer used principally for the business parked

outside. And this is where we have a challenge. There are three of them. three commercial vehicles parked outside overnight. So, as we move forward on this, if we are to allow those or not, is something we need to deal with. The next item, heavy construction equipment on the property. Yes, there is that tractor and what looks like some heavy uh implement tools that might be hooked up to it. Those are outside. Uh, the tractor is sort of in one of those tents. The next item, noise, vibration, glare, fume, odors, decim discernable beyond the property line. And I don't believe that's an issue. outdoor storage of equipment, materials, goods other than commercial vehicles. And I would say yes, there were some ladders stored out back. There were those heavy uh implements for the tractor stored out back. business activities that take place outdoors on the property. And the outdoor business activities that I conclude for this is his trash collection and storage in the truck. So those those are the specifics. And then we have the general conditions for a special permit. And here's where we come into those six items that Lisa suggested I I postpone discussing. And so we had the first one, social, economic, community needs served by the proposal, traffic flow and safety,

adequate of utilities and other public services. Those I don't think we have an issue with. The next one, the neighborhood character, equipment, number of vehicles, accessory to the vehicles and other stuff cons in in in my notes here contribute to a disruption of the neighborhood character and that we might find ways suggest to the petitioner to lessen that impact. The next item, impacts on a natural environment. I don't believe there is anything there contamination or pollution issues and then the potential fiscal impact he's been in business continue in business he should be paying taxes and all that good stuff. So, as the dust settles on this list, it comes to the three commercial vehicles, a landscape tractor, outdoor storage of equipment, and outdoor storage of trash and so so forth. And then the impact of that on the neighborhood character. So, board members, how do we proceed? I have a suggestion. Um let's um taking one of these at a time is the um one of is the impact on the neighborhood. Um, I I believe that if we step back and look around because we're all residents of Maynard and we've seen all the various neighborhoods and we look at the neighborhood in particular that we're that we're looking at. Um, I do think

that there is I don't see any other um properties that are are are have this commercial feel to it. um despite the fact that the neighbors say that there's no impact um and that they are good friends with this person and and he's been a good neighbor and it's and and all these wonderful things I think is great but I think um I think that we need to sort of look beyond that and that's not part of our criteria for judging um whether this is a a negative impact on on the neighborhood. Um I I believe it is a negative impact on the neighborhood. Um, and I'm not exactly sure how an easy way of of getting around it, but I think that um, just because the neighbors think it's okay, um, I think the board should look at it as saying that, well, is this, you know, is this something that we should, you know, do we agree with them that there is no impact on the

So, that's an interesting point you raised, Brad, if I if I may comment on that because most of the neighbors I assume they're most of them that came back and said good things about him and his lack of impact and they are the immediate neighborhood for the most part. And so that might counter your argument a little bit. Mhm.

I think that's our total challenge is that we have to make sure that almost everyone's happy and that's why we're here. And it isn't black and white, but as was suggested, maybe we can have a condition going forward because the vehicles the vehicles seem to be this the sticking point. And to me, the tractor in addition just exacerbates it as far as someone coming and looking and saying, "Is it residential or not?" I mean, generally, I mean, it's great. It's just so nice that neighbors are backing this whole thing, and I understand that, but that's not our job. Um, it's to make sure that we fulfill all of these definitions to the best of our ability. But maybe that's what a condition is for. That was suggested. Can Do you think we can suggest a condition in order to move forward, not get bogged down on this?

Well, I I know I'm I'm going to pick on Bill here because he likes to put up uh stockade fences and hide things. And if he made some big garages to park all of his trucks in, or most of his trucks, would that be enough? I'm being sort of silly here, but the point is, can you hide the stuff on site somehow? Yeah.

And and to do that basically puts up a stockade fence, like a fortress in the middle of his backyard, which sort of kinky. Well, um I know there's a cost. We've we've heard about, you know, obviously a hardship of cost of doing things. Um but I know that being a handyman that perhaps it will be a little less because yeah, maybe that a barrier a bigger barrier. I don't know. I think we have to get a little creative. Well, may I chime in, Mr. Chair?

Sure. I think I think if we step back and we look at what the applicant's asking for um in in the case of the vehicles for example um that that is to me the the most challenging but uh there is a provision in the bylaws to allow more than one commercial vehicle and it's you know to allow creative solutions. Uh I think that the uh in this case um the the the changes that you could see in the the um in the property is it's remarkable. And so softening this I I think that if if we could soften the view and it's been a lot certainly a lot improved but with whether it's a softer uh a stockade fence like you said or or the way it is you know the whole purpose of this permit is to mitigate the impacts to the the character of the neighborhood. We've heard from the neighbors. The neighbors are um you know by and large supportive and I get that. Uh and and the board has correctly pointed out that their charge is to you know look beyond that. But on the other hand, what is the neighborhood? So, I think that if the if the the vehicles have been softened to a point of where the neighbors are okay and it it they don't feel that it's out, it's sticking out in a way that is um obtrusive to the neighborhood, you could work with that in my opinion. Uh and you're right, I do like screening and I I I do screen everything from and uh that's my um that is true. Uh, so far in my opinion, if I may, um, so far as materials and equipment, um, we do have

a bit of a of a dilemma because in many cases, um, if this was not coming before the board, a lot of the equipment would just be looked at as personal use. Maybe they use it for a commercial business, maybe they don't. But the the good faith effort that was made in my opinion um it it went a long way on that and I do see an improvement and I do think that if the uh board is comfortable with the softening or if they think it's adequate of the vehicles in in my opinion that meets the spirit and I will that since I was invoked that's what I think you can say whatever you want as long as I let you say it.

Yes. So the the challenge for us is criteria. If we were to look at these vehicles as the challenge point, what kind of criteria could we impose to allow those vehicles to exist? the the three road vehicles and the the large not large mediumsiz landscape tractor. And how would we put that is to a criteria other than screening. And if he puts in screening, it doesn't do anything really because he's got to open his screening to get them out every time he wants to use them.

Mr. chair, if I if I may. Um, yeah, I believe. So, the a condition a couple of conditions that you could consider um are uh for example that they need to be parked in the rear of the property. Um that um perhaps uh there's, you know, I'm going to go to to um Bill's screening. Perhaps along the front of the property there's some, you know, arvides or something taller planted as opposed to to fencing necessarily, but let me let me pause you just for a moment. This property is on top of a rise. Yeah, I just looked at it.

And so the backyard is the highest level ground and the street is lower. The driveway goes up and so forth and it's a narrow driveway to get to the back. So the vehicle parking needs to be in the back somehow. Yeah,

that's the challenge. And I I don't want to dictate the specific criteria to allow him to keep the tractors there or the tractors and truck there. Trucks and tractor. There we go. But it it's either to me that it's either asis or we try to mitigate the neighborhood impact somehow. And I I don't have, you know, arborites or something. There's literally no room to plant something like that. Right.

So that that's that's our our our sticking point on on that one. Um, and then because of all of his activities, he's got those two uh storage buildings. Building or what's a structure? That's the technical word, a structure. And then he's got stuff outside of the structures that he's got um what do what do you call that? Zigzag stuff, lattice work, fencing that sort they sort of hide behind. Um, and he's got I think two or maybe three of those lattice work things hiding different portions of his backyard. So to me, you know, as a successful business, he he should have been able in my mind to have gone beyond a backyard business and have a commercial business outside, you know, with a a you know, a locker building or with a warehouse kind of thing to store all of his big equipment and whatevers. But he didn't go that route. He wanted to keep it local on his backyard. And that's where we run into the challenge. So, we either let it go the way it is, which then gives us a precedent for future cases that come out like this, or we ask him to follow that that neighborhood concept where where was it? Uh um Oh, I had too many notes here.

While you're looking for that, Mr. Chair, I would remind the the board that each decision is is made on their own merits and they don't have any presidential value. I I hope to agree with you. Future cases, you know, have a chance to come back and deal with this in the wrong way. No, I I Yeah, I understand people are always going to come back and say that, but I it it's a fact and um I just want the board to make sure they understand that. That's a good point. So Lesie, Jackie, I'd like you to give me your thoughts. Where do we go from here? Um,

well, from the beginning, excuse me, Leslie, I'll be quick. Um, I I've just been a little bit surprised even though I know that the vehicles are are needed for the business. um after spending so much time and being so specific about what we needed not to have one vehicle removed to me is disappointing. And I do get I mean I ran my own business too. Um, I had neighbors. I had to have hearings when I put my business in my neighborhood. And believe me, it wasn't always a piece of cake, but I had to, you know, abide. But I I have a little problem with the fact that after hours and hours of meetings with a list of what we thought would make everybody happy without crushing a business. um that there's still three vehicles and a tractor, but that's why I said, could we possibly have a condition perhaps um maybe in a I don't know in a few months to remove a vehicle or maybe there could be like someone suggested a an open carport just the skeleton of a garage which is could I don't know. I'm not a builder, but I've bu I have built and renovated and that doesn't appear to be that prohibitive, but that's not my job. That's my thoughts.

All right. Thank you, Jackie. Very useful, Lesie.

Um, boy, yes. uh the number of vehicles still, you know, I I still don't quite understand why it has to be three and not two. Um, and the the yard definitely is improved, but it still, you know, it it looks like a mishmash of this and that and this and that. And that isn't in keeping with um the aesthetics of a neighborhood, but different people have different aesthetic values. Um, I would I think that Mr. Cormier said that he was going to be retiring in a couple of years. Is that correct?

I think that's what I heard, too. You're muted. You can't You can't The public hearing is closed, right? Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think you said he wanted to be there five more years. Oh, okay. Well, um, yeah, five years is a a bit bit longer than I would uh I don't know. That's the way I feel, Leslie. I don't know, Jerry. Yeah.

Yeah. I was going to comment and a couple of things. Um, I agree with what everybody just said, what Lesie, what you said. I agree with town council and what she said about the fact that each case we have today or come up with six months or a year from today. Uh, make it or break it on their own merits. But we understand also how that works. You let it go here. Why can't let it go for me? you know, it just it just adds another dimension to another hearing uh for another property. Uh and I'm a bit concerned about that only because I've been involved in condo complexes for the last 40 years and once you let one thing go, well, you let it go for them, why couldn't you let it go for me? But just win or lose, it becomes a a very tough sticking point. uh skipping the legality portion of it. I think that I I think Mr. Comey has done an excellent job in that backyard from when we made our first visit. I already said that.

Um I don't like the fact I do not think it looks like a residential backyard.

It looks more like one now than it did, but with three vehicles and two, you know, out buildings, doesn't look residential to me. as as far as I'm concerned, that's my one sticking point is um where was it? Uh what's the name of this? Yeah, neighborhood character. It just and I know the neighbors don't mind it and I get it, but it doesn't give a neighborhood character feel to it. I have a problem with that. I have a problem with that. And I don't know how we get around it. I honestly don't because I don't know what conditions we can put. Condition that he, you know, gets rid of one truck in a year. I don't know. He needs all he needs what he's got. I I I don't know what we can put in for conditions. I'm stuck with that.

So, if we were to make the conditions not stringent, but clarifying to say he can run a type A business, he's down to one truck. and the backyard, you know, I I read those first first group of things where the the uh the type A issues and that was that's if we don't give him a special permit, he goes down to type A. Yep. That's a way to do it. I have one suggestion, Mr. Chair, if I may just try to move it along.

Sure. The applicant has indicated he's gradually winding down. We have established that by and large the neighbors are are seem to be okay with this. We've also established that the board is uncomfortable with setting what they feel is oppressive even if it's not exactly. So perhaps a compromise that would be in the interest of everybody involved would be if we could take and say that this is a winding down of the largecale operation and perhaps like a a one-year or one twoyear special permit with a understanding that this is a one year to have all these vehicles and by the next special permit there's got to be uh removal and we're down to a level where the board feels as comfortable or so on like that. So we could incrementally move towards achieving all the goals while being sensitive to the applicant's um needs and also respecting all the input that we've had from the community. And at least that way we could say there's a level of control over what's being improved in the neighborhood. We can say that we've the board has done their best to address all the concerns that they've heard in a very difficult and and taxing process. And we also can help um the applicant um prepare to wind down the way as he indicated it was something he had intended to do all along. It's not perfect. No, but it it's a start and it would move things forward. And that that's what I would uh think. Now, that's that's sort of where I was leaning to that the criteria, you know, if we phrased a motion for the type B special permit, the criteria is

he could keep the three trucks for X, one year, and after one year, he has to be back in front of us with only two trucks and so on down the line. And then the the landscape tractor, he com he uh insist that that's personal use, but the landscape tractor is a heavy vehicle, heavy uh what do you call landscape vehicle, heavy construction equipment on the property, that's very specific in our bylaws that a residential neighborhood doesn't need heavy construction equipment. So, if we were to write criteria for that with a one-year renewal period in front of the board again, Brad, Jerry, Lesie, Jackie, what do you think?

I agree. Yeah. Um I I think that's um I I think that's a great idea. I think that um um trying to uh kill his business, you know, today uh is is is, you know, finding a way out of it is is is the way to do it. I don't think there's a way that he could screen these vehicles. I don't think there's a way that he's going to be able to get around the option of with all having all these vehicles around. Um, so yeah, if he wants to ramp, you know, I think finding a way to ramp it down and and and we see progress, measured progress of it, I think that's a great a great idea. Lesie,

um, am I on? Yeah, I agree. And I think that he will need to maintain uh the level of um

organization just call yes organization. That's an a good term. The level of organization that we've seen today. Um and we may or may not want to tweak that when we meet with him in a year. Certainly, we would want to do a site visit again in a year. Jackie, are you sort of leaning that way, too?

Yes, I I think that's a good way to do it. I I think that's why we're here is, you know, we've needed to look at the look at it holistically and I think this is a good good uh solution. So, give me some criteria in one year. What do we expect to see? One less. Yeah. One one less one less commercial vehicle. Preferably the um the dumpster truck that'll kill sort of two birds with one stone. Getting rid of the on-site storage of waste.

But hey, you know, that's just my suggestion. And what other criteria? Um I could I also add that um that all the vehicles um are uh that are there are registered and inspected. They really are should be if they're on the road. They should be. But I think the um the dumpster truck may not move very much. So that one might lapse. I don't know. What about the landscape tractor in one year? What do you expect with that?

Um I would I would expect it to uh find a a place where it would be um screened covered. Well, it's it's pseudo screened now. It's it's sort of right it's like an elephant in a in a mill pond. It's sticking out both ends, right? So may maybe there's something a little bit better that can be done. And what about the uh the other screened areas? There was that that one uh lattice work screening hiding about four or five big yellow things. I I'm okay with that.

Okay. To leave it in one year. What do you want to do with it? Anything? I I don't think it wasn't obvious to me. I I was I would hope it wouldn't be to anyone that might look upon it. I'm okay with it being the same. Okay. Anybody else on comments for that? I agree. I I I think it's got some good criteria already.

Is that enough to to phrase a motion? Because the last criteria would be back in front of this board if he wants to continue after one year, which this permit would have expired. Uh Mr. Chair, just one point of clarification if you the board does feel that they're going to make a motion. Um the first is when we said one less commercial vehicle at the followup, does that mean a total of two commercial vehicles? That's that's the better way to say it. Yes. Okay. Mhm.

And the second um just to give the the applicant a a chance uh with the uh or some time to work on it, I would clarify that the the uh whatever the approval period is or whatever if it's a year or whatever would be from the effective date of the permit. So that that way the uh the appeal period goes through. And that's how we've typically done special permits uh that have a a a fairly uh a fairly soon renewal. So it' be one year from effective date would be my recommendation. Okay. So we have four criteria in one year. Total of two commercial vehicles. The vehicles are registered and inspected. better screening for the tractor and a one-year e expiration of this permit which could be renewed at that point pending a meeting with the zoning board.

Uh m Mr. Chair, I think you also said um that the yard should be kept in the same organiz organizational state as it is.

Great. I forgot that one. Thank you. Any anything else I missed? Nope. Now his his letter asking for things. One was on the vehicles. Two was on the vehicles. Three was this 25gallon spraying equipment unit. And number five, I can't figure out what the issue is because it, you know, it's a full paragraph and I don't I don't know what the item is he's asking for.

U Mr. Chairman, I believe I know what you're what that's referring to. Yeah, please help me out. Well, I I that um that was I think just a clarification of the location of some of the uh some of the storage structures, but those are those are not out of compliance with zoning bylaws. So those are not anything that needs to come before this board.

All right? Cuz it it's this is the paragraph that runs between two pages. Allowance of an existing shelter. I skipped that one because I agree with you. But the next one is just a lot of words. So I think I think we've got them except for this 25gallon spraying equipment unit. And so I'm wondering where that unit is now. I'm wondering if it was one of those things behind the lattice work in front of the trucks sticking outside or if it's in one of the sheds. And I think some of it was I saw as you and I Paul saw that there was a hose rail, a white hose rail that was in the back there.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that that was that was protected by the lattice and also by the commercial vehicles or the one non-commercial vehicle that was there. So, how are we going to address that? Is that acceptable? You want to put them in the shed? I don't have a problem with it where it is. I mean, I'm just I'm just trying to, you know, we want to clarify because those are we may want to move it so it doesn't so the weather doesn't destroy it, but yeah, I I had one of those sprayer units, not as big as his and you know, ice does nasty things to that.

Oh, I thought high pressure could handle anything, but it can't handle ice. So, that that we have it. Okay. Total of two commercial vehicles. Uh registered and inspected vehicles. Uh better screening for the tractor. Uh same organizational state as it is now and a one-year effective the date effect expiring effective one year from uh the date of the permit. one year from the effective date of the permit. Mr. Chair,

thank you. The thing is I can't make the motion. I was going to let Lesie do that. Okay. Am I on? I make a motion to um to grant the um the applicants uh request for a special permit to operate an accessory homebased business type B at 32- I mean 30-32 Walnut Street to allow out overnight outdoor parking of two additional although I guess now it will 3. Am I correct? No, no, no. Total of two.

A total of two additional commercial vehicles associated. Total just simple total of two. No additional just two commercials. Parking of two commercial vehicles and um with the Oh, with the criteria that was just stated by our chairman. Are you going to make me say all that again? No. No. The the point is at one year we want a total of two. Okay. So sorry I garbled it for you. It's my fault. Okay. So one year from the effective date of this permit

he is to be at a total of two commercial vehicles. Okay. And if I may, Leslie, you just want to reiterate that the findings, the board findings and the findings were the basis of this decision as discussed. Well, is that all the business about that he resides on site and all of that? You can just say as discussed and they'll Oh, okay. Um, in keeping with the findings as discussed. And don't don't forget the other criteria, Leslie, about the registered vehicles.

Oh, okay. So, uh that uh he have better screening for the tractor. Um that uh the vehicle shall be uh registered and inspected, that the yard be kept in the same organizational state as as it was in which we saw it tonight. Um and that he shall appear before the board again uh a year from uh the effective date of the uh granting of the permit at which time all this will um

so that effective date hasn't happened yet. We got to write it, sign it and get it approved. Right. And do we need to state anything about the 25gallon spraying unit? Yes. But what should we say about it? He's asking for the allowance of it being there. Yes. It's that probably that device behind the lattice work and I think Brad and Jerry said that's okay the way it is now. Yeah, we've agreed to accept it. Okay.

So, put that in there too that it can stay behind the lattice screening. Okay. And the 25gallon spraying unit um is permitted but must be um kept behind screening. Okay. Is that everything? I hope it is. Yep. Good. I need a second. I'll second. Very second. See, Jackie, if you had your camera on next time I will. I promise.

All right. So, just to remind the board that the motion is in the positive, we need what is it? Four votes to approve. If we don't get four votes, that that special permit motion is not approved. If we don't get the four votes, then we can decide what we're going to do if it turns out to be a no vote or a negative answer, excuse me. So, Jerry, yes. Brad, yes. Lesie, yes. Jackie.

Yes. And I'll be a yes as well. So, with that, I I like to pass it off on to Bill to put him on the spot because Bill has all the dates and timing down pat.

Well, I do. And I think I will this will be the last one I'll do and then Zoe will do the next one. But I think she probably knows already. Uh Daniel, what'll happen is I will go ahead and draft a decision that reflects the board's um determinations. Uh it'll be filed with the clerk. Uh there's an appeal period, which is why we wanted to ensure that you had the extra you weren't penalized for the extra time uh that the appeal period takes place. At that point, um you'll be receive the um the final um um special permit. And there's a few um things you want to do that which will be explained in the letter about how you memorialize it. But most importantly, we want to make sure that the bu um the zoning enforcement officer is um aware of this and that you've been working and trying to resolve everything. And uh we'll be in touch and um thank you everybody for your patience. I know this was a difficult uh one for everybody from the applicant to to the the ZBA and everything. And I thank you all for uh the patience and that good job of working this through.

And I especially want to thank Lisa for staying with us this whole evening. My pleasure. I didn't screw it up. Too bad. You did you did a fine job, Mr. Chair, as always. So, is there any other business? I don't have the agenda in front of me. Bill, we're we're short on minutes. There'll be c I think Zoe, am I correct? We do not have minutes. You are correct. We do not have minutes. I I anticipate by we'll be caught up next month. We just had some problems and some hiccups there. Uh getting um them all together, but uh they should be up uh by next month at the next month meeting. Good.

So, I need another motion. I make a motion to close the uh tonight's meeting. Jerry, second. Excellent. So, in favor, Brad, yes. Lesie, yes. Yes. Um Jackie, yes. Jerry said yes. I think and I'm a yes. So, thank you very much everybody and thank you. Thank you. Hang on. Hang on. Go ahead, Leslie. We know the date of the next meeting a month from now, but it's like the the last the last Monday. Yeah, it should be. Unless there's a holiday or something. Let's see.

Okay. Um, let's see. It looks to me like the 22nd. Monday the 29th. Oh, sorry. Okay, good. Thanks. Asking the wrong person. There we go. Thanks, Zoe. And Bernard, I hope you'll come back to another meeting that they usually don't uh they don't go month after month after month like this. This is a good break or dinner. Yeah. Goodbye everyone. Have a good evening. Bye. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you everybody. Bye.