Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Okay. So, this is the Maynard zoning board of appeals hearing. It is the 6th of 16th of June, 2025. And to make um people aware of who we have here, I'm the chairman. I'm Paul Shiner. Jerry. Yep. I'm unmuted. Jerry Calbert, board member. Lesie, uh Leslie Bryant, board member. Don John Corville, board member. And Brad, Brad Schultz, board member. Great. We have somebody else who's in the wings. We don't know when she's going to get on, but we can at least look at the minutes and approve those. So, we have the minutes of whenever that was a long time ago. February 27th. No, May 21st. It says I could not find those. Oh, it's hiding on the website. Oh, I couldn't find them either. I found them. They're on the website. So if we haven't found them, how come it you go to the town website and then you click on agenda and minutes and then you look down and that must not be the way to find them even though that's I I thought I did it that way. Bill, you were on mute so we don't know what you were swearing at. I'll show you how you do it. Um let's see. Okay. Can you see the now? Can you see my agenda? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Watch. Boom. Yeah. And see it disappears. Then you have to go and download it and open it on on your regular computer. Oh yeah. So

yeah, that's what I didn't My agenda looks different from your agenda. Yeah, because well mine we're online for this one. This meeting will be conducted remotely via Zoom video, but I don't see any place to um click on minutes. So, no, you can't because I sent you that's a static I sent you long ago. Yeah. All right. Do you need time to look over them? Do you want me to send them to you and we can look them next week? Yeah, we'll have to do that because it's it's unfair to the minutes if we just say, "Yeah, sure." So, we need to look them over. Okay. All right. I'll I'll resend them to you then. Or you can Okay. Let's see. We'll stop the share. Oh, I'm not sharing. Okay. Can you Are Are we back on? Yeah, we're not seeing you as a share. We're just seeing people. Right. Okay. No, you shouldn't be sharing, right? Okay. All right. It should be back to normal. Yes. You're just going to email them to us, right, Bill? I can send them to email if you'd prefer. That' be the simplest way. We know how to do that. I think they were on the email. Actually, I said probably, weren't they? Maybe not. I don't remember. All right, I'll make sure you get them. I'll get them out to you in a minute. I don't remember seeing them. I could have I made a mistake. All right. So, as far as continuing with this discussion, Mr. Cormier. Um, last time we had in attendance myself, Lesie, Jerry, John, Brad, and Jackie. John has recused himself. So that means it's me, Lesie, Jerry,

Brad, and Jackie is not here yet. So that means we have four people. How many do we need for a positive or negative vote, Bill? Uh, you need four. You can't. It has to be unanimous. That's the point. So, we we either go with unanimous decision option as the only one or we wait until Jackie shows up and she's supposed to be here. Well, you can continue. You can you can reopen your hearing and and you can do two things. If if you think you're going to open it and close it. I mean, if you think it's going to close tonight, then you then you'd have to have decide if you want to vote or if you wanted to continue it and let Jackie review the tape and Mullen in. Now, she did say she was leaving it. I anticipate her here tonight, but doesn't help us right now. Um, so, uh, it's really I I would say we can go ahead and start the discussion. I think you can recap anything that um since we all just came from there, it's all fresh in your minds. Uh anything can be recapped if she comes. It's Germaine. She's probably um you know, she's probably familiar with the site already because she asked me a couple questions about it. So I I Yeah, but she hasn't seen it and everybody else has had the option to review Well, we and and I don't think she's seen it. I don't think Mr. arm here. Is that true? Jackie hasn't shown up at your site. I've not seen her. No. Okay. So, there in lies the challenge. You know, we can discuss amongst ourselves and at this public forum, but if we were to proceed without Jackie, then it has to be unanimous. whatever we decide to do.

So, Mr. Chair, yes, please. So, I I think the risk there might be uh to Mr. Cormier and that if we don't come out all four in favor, um he loses at least if there's five of us. Am I correct? Then it needs to be it could be four in one. Correct. Is that correct? Correct. Because there could be a dissenting vote and if there is a desending vote uh right now with only four that's it all done. But if there's five and there's this descending vote dissenting vote then it can still pass. I sense that. Yeah. I I to me you know in in favor of you Mr. Columbia. I would suggest we I mean I don't know I'm I'm not the chair but whether we debate it now. I think we need to wait until we have Jaggy here and hopefully Jackie gets to see the the site because I think we need to have the fifth person in order to do it fairly I think. And and the the trick there is our discussion our debate as you called it. Yeah. She needs to be a part of that. Yes. Yes. And so literally we're we're dead in the water. The other thing to keep in mind, Mr. Cormier, is the motions that we would make are made in the affirmative and then any vote against kills it. We can't make a motion in the negative. You get my my my drift there? I do not understand that. If we were to say uh yes go ahead do whatever and we have one descent and we had the five people it still passes but if we have no you can't do anything

and vote that as you know voting in the negative that that does not mean that one descent means you can do anything. So the motions are always made in the positive. Okay. And that's the way it will be in my case, right? The motion will be made in the positive, right? To approve to approve this request uh of X, Y, and Z, right? Okay. All right. My my suggestion, Mr. Chair, is again um you could wait a little bit if you want, but I if you open the hearing so we have everybody here, we can get the the feedback in. Um, even if it if it's going to be continued anyway, um, Jackie can review the tape and then Mullins's in if you're not going to vote and we can work through some of this stuff and maybe start making some progress in between rather than wait till next month. Our next meeting is, you know, not till July. Uh, well, this particular meeting was off cycle, right? Right. It was off cycle. We're going to have a we're going to have a a longer. And so when is our normal meeting night? I forget. The fourth Monday of the month. And this I don't remember why this was early, but we we had a reason. We I can't remember why. Yes. Somebody might have been conflicted out. That's getting close to the holiday, right? Well, I don't know. So, the fourth Monday is next Monday, the 23rd. I can't remember why we did it, but we did it. All right. I can't make next Monday. I'm gonna That's why we didn't. Maybe that's why. Yeah. I mean, I've got the condo annual meeting. I already pushed it from this Monday to next Monday so I could get this in. Yeah. I can't change it again. All right. So, it's next month. Yeah. All right.

So, uh, preference of the board. Shall we? Shall we debrief ourselves and let Jackie listen to it? Does that make sense, Lesie? Brad? Sure. Sounds good. I I think to put it off another month would not do anybody favor. All right. So, I think the first thing, Bill, if you could text or email Jackie and say, "Yo, where are you? You said you'd be here by now." All right, I I will do that. You could read the minutes I just sent you in the meantime. Um, good. So, Mr. Chair, if we're if we're debating this now, um, but we're not making a motion. Is that correct? We're just discussing the pluses and minuses. Am I correct in that assumption? Yeah, just just what did we see? How does it fit against what we believe is what should be there? Is it okay? Is it not okay? Issues, so on and so forth. Okay. Um but to to be fair to the applicant, um if we make a motion now and Jackie is not there to to contribute, it's a little it's a little short and not not fair. I think to review it now and have her review it, the recording, she would be brought up to speed and then she could ask questions when it comes time to vote. If you're willing to do it that way, sure. Let's move forward. So, um, where do we stand now? Uh, so if we go, this is, you know, just to formally open this portion of the

meeting. Um, yeah, reopen it. Yeah. So, we're opening the continued uh application of Daniel Cormier. He wants a special permit approval to operate an accessory homebased business type B per section 83 of the zoning bylaws. The meeting started last month and he introduced himself and provided the board with the scope of what he wants to do. We continued it and so we will open the continued hearing tonight. And where we left off was a site visit. We had the site visit at 6:30 plus or minus this evening. And we're here to discuss what we observed. So that would be the first item on the discussion is what we observed at that meeting. So Brad, Lesie, Jerry, because John has recused himself. Sure. I I I have a question. So, are um are we in the public discussion still or are we in the board discussion portion of the We didn't close that we didn't close the public hearing. So, we're still whatever you whatever is your pleasure. Okay. So, we can ask questions back and forth and Yes. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just want to make sure that that's where we're once we just for everybody's uh and for for uh the applicants um clarification. What Brad's talking about is once the public hearing is closed, okay, and new information can't come in and we're going to be want I mean because a lot of this is going to be new information. So we want to make sure to keep it open. It's to your advant everybody's advantage really in this case. Make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Brad um Yeah. So, um, one one thing I wanted to to say, um, when we were going through,

um, trying to come up with these, um, the criteria and the definitions for these homebased businesses, one of the, um, one of the discussions that came up, which is what we call the the ladder rule. Um, and that would be something that you would ask yourself if you have an item outside that you store outdoors that if you never had a homebased business, would you have that? Would you have it outside? So, for instance, if you have a ladder that you use for your house and for your business, okay, you might say that. that if you have something a piece of equipment that you wouldn't use for your house, but you would use for your business and you're storing it outside, then that's a that may or may not be an issue. So, that discussion came up um when we're trying to figure out what a type A business was or a type B business was in storing equipment. So, with the enormous amount of equipment and things that are stored on that site that we visited today, um I'm just wondering how much of that would be there if he didn't have Mr. Cornier didn't have um a homebased business. Can I answer that? Sure. you just keep it short, you know, simple simple points. Yeah. So, if you look from the street at that house, so I painted the front of that house and the ladders that I had, I had several ladders to be able to reach left to right at one time. Uh, I also had to extend over the bushes, which put the base of the ladder further away. It was very difficult to paint the front of that house. I feel it looks good now.

Um, you know, I that house when I got that was very um rundown and the equipment, a lot of what I have is not for the business. It's because I fix my own house. I don't pay people to fix it and they take their equipment and leave. I am the guy who has always fixed this house. So, a lot of what you see both in materials and equipment is for me to use on that house. I don't really have anything outside of the van that is used in the business and it's up for you to decide, but I'll tell you that I fix my own house. So, I'm re upycling, recycling, reusing materials wherever I can. And the ladders I use to access all points I still have the ends to do. They're actually it's so so high I can't even the ladders I have don't even reach. I can't even get to all of it. So, Um, excuse me. I just want to interrupt you for a second. When I was calling it, we called it the ladder rule just based on a piece of equipment being a ladder. It wasn't necessarily I was I was not necessarily discussing talking about your ladders specifically, right? But about equipment that you might be using for business and for your own personal use. Yeah. I mean, it's it's this question is going to keep happening and it is because it what it appears to me is that you have a lot of equipment there that you're not using on your house and that you could be using for business. And so when your neighbors look at it, they will say that, yeah, he's using it for his business because we don't see him using it as on his house. For instance, you have a riding mower, but you don't have any lawn. You have, you know, a tractor that doesn't look like it's been run. You haven't run it for a long time. You have a bunch of equipment that looks like it's uh it goes to u heavier duty equipment. The yellow pieces that are behind um the truck between the two fences. Those

those are all commercial type pieces of equipment that I don't think are being you're using them on your house. I mean, your house looks like it's finished on the outside. No, no, no. And um and so I don't I don't know what it is that you're that you're you're saying. Um it just sort of gives the it sort of gives the conception perception, especially when you have a a large truck that's got a billboard on it, you know, saying that's that's your business, that all the equipment associated in your yard does appear to be something that you would use for your business. So, and I think it's the the stuff in the sheds, too, that that are back there. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah. And most of it looks like it's it's for the commercial use. I mean, you have you those engine lifts that you have out there, you know, that those are not things that you're working on your house with. Okay. If I could address that stuff there. If I if I could address that, but let let's keep it short because, you know, we want to get everybody else to make a comment, too. And and this I I'll try my best. I grew up in an automotive business. It was a family business for 23 years. I worked for 13 years as a full-time mechanic in that shop. That was the family business. When that business closed, all that equipment had to go somewhere. I did keep a few pieces. I never ended up using them because I don't have a shop. So, a lot of that is my my history. I'm automotive. I worked at Swanson Pontiac and conquered Chrysler. You know, I am a bluecollar trades person. I do enjoy that field on my own be behalf uh my own accord. It has nothing to do with handy handy business. Um the tractor has nothing to do with the handy business. I have no track no trailer to bring it anywhere. The pieces that you spoke about behind the fence. Um what you saw

in the yard today was, you know, a probably eight yards of loom that got spread out into that larger area. Um six post holes that were dug with the post hole digger that was part of that tractor. Um the forklift got used, which I didn't want the forklift, but when you're financing, they say throw anything on that you want to get now. So I have it, I use it. Um it was how I got all that I got done done. um it there's no part of the business that it that uses. So to keep it short, I come from automotive. I came from a shop. A lot got dispersed at that point. I came with some of it to this property. I do I am a mechanical person. I'm not uh uh an office person. I do this as my own personal um enjoyment. It's not I don't I don't repair any cars. I don't do engine jobs for for business. And the only reason I have that is it got acquired when the when the business the family business closed. Um I thought I might use it. I never ended up using it. It's time to go. What you saw on the side behind the house. That engine lift and all those pieces are in marketplace right now to be uh to be sold. And most of it is gone already. A lot of it's gone. I also in this time I got rid of a truck. with that truck meant all the parts that came with that truck. I bought four trucks consecutively because it was how I survived. I would use the parts from the one truck to fix the next truck. It's how I paid the bills over the winter. So now that truck is gone and all the parts that were with it are also gone. I moved an awful lot of stuff out of that property in a short amount of time. The tractor allowed me to do a lot of the improvements. The two privacy fences, one's not finished, the other one is done. Um, I it it dug the holes. I'm 60 years old. I have I've dug so many holes. I don't want to dig holes anymore. I bought a tractor that would

dig post holes. That tractor is nothing to do with the business. If for anything else that you see around there, I've got wheelbarrows. I've got the tote. I don't know where that tote is going to get used in the handyman business, but if it's an issue, I'll get rid of it. It doesn't mean anything to me. You know, it's something that they're crafty. You can make things with them. um the the the shelf that was behind the tent that was got exposed when the tent got moved, that's what housed a lot of the parts that I got rid of. I went to I dropped it off of the metal drop off. So that shelf now was bare. I moved the tent. It's what got exposed. I haven't gotten rid of it. I've only got so much time to do all this stuff, but it's not there because I want it. It's there because it got exposed because I had to move all this stuff to satisfy the board. Thank Thank you for your comments. Leslie, do you have any comments, thoughts? Uh, excuse me one second, Mr. Chair. Um, I got a hold of Jackie. She'll be on in a second momentarily. Thank you. She's got at work. She was come She was going to the property. I told her, "Don't bother. Come to the meeting and go later." I no I I don't know what to say because um the the issue originally is about the vehicles, right? And so there are three vehicles with commercial plates and the I mean this this is how this ended up here, right? Was how many vehicles are in the yard? And sure what what the original point was, but yes, there are vehicles. There was a sprayer parked outside or and it was some other stuff, but I don't know which one was the uh the trigger point that Oh, okay. It's actually to operate

an accessory homebased business and to allow overnight outdoor parking of two additional commercial vehicles. Um so yeah to operate an um a business. So it's uh he he has to follow whatever rules are around owning a business and and whatever u relief we want to get give him for the homebased business issues. Mhm. I mean, that's that's to me the the the sticking point and to distinguish between a business pile of debris, excuse me, versus a residential pile of debris. Well, and the whole reason for having a regulation about any of it is so that the property continues to look like a residential property and not a business property. Correct. It kind of looks like a business property more than a residential at least in the back. Yeah. Well, can I ask something here? Is the way as viewed from the town. So, most people are never going to I feel it's it's come a long way. It's it's much nicer than it was. And there I'm not even done yet. There's more that needs to be done. But as far as the view from from the street, you know, from what the town sees, I mean, they see half of the truck that is the primary vehicle and they don't see the others because they're behind the house. But did this

first come up because of a neighbor complaint? Ex. Absolutely. Yeah. So, it's not really I know when you drive by, you don't really think anything of it, but it's not just to protect the view of people driving by, but how the neighbors perceive that it's um changing their property values or maybe it's unpleasant for them to look at because you you can all the houses around are are twostory houses, so they can see that's the view that they get when they look out their window, right? And because I' I've been in business 22 years and I know every neighbor and I've helped and I'm very familiar and friendly with every neighbor. Um, when the the the notice went out for anybody to be a part of this meeting, nobody cared to be a part of it because they didn't care. they didn't they didn't have enough concern about anything that was detrimental to their their property value or their use of the house. Uh at 22 years, there've been lots of opportunities to have anything to complain about. And in all that time, nobody's ever said anything. The one person that did has only been here 5 years and he's just wants what he wants and not necessarily what is good for the town. It's just more what he wants. And that's I could go further into that, but I don't think the board wants to hear that. But I I can give you concrete reasoning behind my my view there. But it really is only one. I mean, I've got everybody else and and I I I I just have to leave it there. I mean, I've been good to this entire neighborhood um 22 years. That's

not the point that we're trying to No, I get it. I So, I'll leave it at that. Right. It seems to me that um we need to get the correct number of vehicles and we need to find a way to shield what you do have in the yard from in such a way that it doesn't um um doesn't look unsightly. Well, Blaine Defriedus had a a great phrase. Good fences make good neighbors. So to plant arborites and to block his view is the best way to do that. You know what he doesn't see, he doesn't care. U because he's you know he's got a view that if if he couldn't see it, he wouldn't have anything to complain about. So, it may be that I plant privacy screening, you know, behind his fence in order to prevent that view. Well, I I think one thing that we have to figure out tonight is um what sorts of recommendations we'll make about screening and and vehicles and and to just clarify the the rules for the ZBA are that one commercial vehicle is allowed and one trailer. That is not up for discussion. That is in the ZBA rules. So the primary vehicle is half of the GVW that is allowed. 25,000 is the threshold. This one is at 14,000. So it's a little better than half, but it's approximately half the GVW. I do not have a trailer. I never had a trailer. Um I do have that second vehicle. I feel it's in lie of a trailer. I could get a trailer and be in the same place we're at right now. Um

those would be allowed. then we'd only be talking about the small truck, the uh the the the mini truck. So, it means replacing that truck with a trailer that would be allowed. So, if I'm using it for the same purpose, you know, why wouldn't I just get a trailer? Well, are you using that second vehicle that is in lie of a trailer just for storage of things or do you actually truck stuff around in it? It I when I forwarded my initial packet of information, I showed you my vehicle inspection reports that showed the mileage of each vehicle over several years. the the truck that we're talking about had only 700 miles in I think it was in two years. So, it rarely moves. Basically, it sits there and waits for the chance to go to the dump. Um, that's the only thing it gets used for. It It's unusual because as soon as I empty it, it there's stuff that needs to be put back in it as soon as I go out on the next job. So, it's I do small jobs. I'm not wholesale construction. I don't do demolition. I don't build decks. I don't do huge things. I fix closets and kitchen drawers. So, if I change a storm door, it'll be the storm door. If I change a stair tread, I and I did this just recently, uh, repair the stair treads on the the stairs outside the house. So, and because could I could I interrupt this for a moment? Sure. I I'd love to keep this on track. And the point here that Leslie is, I believe, trying to say is there is a lot of stuff in the yard. You have those trucks. As I recall, Jackie is here now. So, we can sort of do a de debrief of

what we saw out there. Is that true, Jackie? Do are you fully connected? You're If you are, you're muted. [Music] I don't Go ahead. Yep. So, you're online now. Is that right? Yes, I am. And I'm sorry to be late. Go ahead. So, the rest of us visited the site today, and what we saw in his backyard is one large box truck with uh billboards on the side, a medium-siz dump truck kind of thing with ladders sticking out the front, and a small scootabout Japanese kind of small truck. two large tents with the the droopy sides uh full of uh stuff. We saw a collection of uh engine hoists and so on behind the house. We saw a couple of totes. Some one was full of firewood and the other one was just as a full plastic tote, a palletiz tote. Behind there were racks behind the the shed. There was the uh orange backhoe device. There was uh fence posts in some areas and some places the fence posts had fencing on them and there was a lot of dirt that he says was top soil that was moved in from somewhere else from the property, same property. So that's that's basically what we saw out there and we're trying to just have a a debate now as to what

it means relative to the zoning bylaws and what the neighbors uh can see. It won't be much visible from the street because it's higher up than the street and it's hard to look down on a property when the road is lower than the property. And so that that's where we are now. and Leslie was having some discussions with us and Daniel was giving some feedback to that. So I one more thing I want to ask would it be possible to get rid of the truck that you say is in lie of a trailer and just store that stuff. And if you needed to move something down to the DPW to get rid of it or whatever it is that you use that for, couldn't you just rent um a U-Haul for a day or something and then it wouldn't even that wouldn't wouldn't be an issue. Well, it would be because then what you're saying is that I'm using the the town services to get rid of the waste, which that wouldn't happen. I'm that's not I don't think it makes sense. I don't think it's allowed. So if I were to do that and rent a truck, what it means is that each day that I go out over 3 months, which is as often as that truck goes out, two to three months, then that debris is having a need a place to collect. So now that is going to not be any it won't be any an improved um view than the truck. The truck hides the stuff. It collects it. So when it gets full, it goes to the dump. So I just don't see storing that stuff without a truck until it's time to rent a truck to fill and and move. And by the

way, that truck does not dump. So I I have to offload it by hand also. But it it I I I I appreciate what you're thinking to be able to get rid of the truck. I would love to be able to get rid of the truck, but um you know, there's no easy solution there because you don't want to get a dumpster cuz that's got its own issues. Um I can't collect it without the truck because that becomes another unsightly issue. Um the truck really is the best way to go because it hides the debris that as business happens. In the winter months, I'll do less. In the summer months, I might do more. Um, but it for 22 years I've operated this exact same way and it's just works out very well. Nobody sees any debris. Um, they only see the vehicle and the vehicle disappears for an hour or two and returns and that's all that ever changes. You just see the vehicle and it's just accepted that that's part of the um the view in my yard. So, and again, 22 years on this truck that you're using as a trash collector. State fire code requires dumpster permits for those kinds of things. And so, you might want to talk to the state or not state, the town fire chief to get a permit for that because that is a waste collection. I'll be happy to do that. I have a question and I'm sorry because I wasn't at the site. Go ahead. Um, I just I'm just thinking about the big picture and I know we're talking about the truck and I realize that if you're

trying to accumulate trash, not trying to, but as you accumulate trash, you don't want to move it twice. And I hear that you have a couple of um canvas type tent units. I was just thinking that maybe there could be a trailer inside the canvas tent unit and then the trash collects there and then you just pull it out and take it and dump it. It It's I would love to do that. It sounds like a good solution only that when you have an 8 by20 now you're uh it's it's considered a permanent structure that needs the permitting for that. Um and it has to be a metal building. You can't use a tent if you're gonna put a vehicle inside of it. It It opens up Pandora's box of all kinds of other issues. Sorry. I was thinking of a trailer that you had a hitch. So, you unhitched it and it was a flatbed and you filled it with your trash and then you backed up your truck and hitched it and pulled it out every 3 months or however you needed to go. I'm just trying to think how to minimize the amount of stuff that's that your neighbors have to see and yet allow you to accommodate what you need. Now, and I have one other question. The digger, which I went on like um a while ago when we first met with you and saw, is it a front loader? I forget. What's the digger? Okay. So, let me just first address. So, the debris, they never see any debris. It's in the back of the truck and it's got a a a DOT uh required cover over it. So, nobody ever sees debris. They only ever see the truck. Um, as far as the digger that you're calling, it is a compact tractor uh marketed to homeowners. Oh, right. You said that. I'm sorry. I forgot. Yeah, it's the smallest they make. I mean, it's as small as you can ask and have

those implements. Okay. I wasn't um like calling your truck debris, but like when some people see clutter, let's say, they they think of it as clutter, you know, neighbors. Yeah. So, I was thinking how do you diminish what they would think as clutter, you know? Yeah. I think the for the purpose of this I mean the the reason I was called out for this this in front of the board here um was that he wants nothing against his fence. You know he's he's all about him and anything that was near his property he wanted moved. So the tent was in violation. It was not 15 ft away only because it was a 10 by 20 or 200 square ft. If it's under that, it can be close to the fence. Again, um you know, it's that you're going to get into the discussion. Is it personal or is it business? Um I will tell you all day long that none of it is business. I do have a lot of stuff in the way of the the trade I came from, the ability that I have to fix my own house. Um, but it really that was where the concern was is the proximity to his fence and his property. Not so much about Yeah. I mean, he brought out everything, the tractor, the trucks, the, you know, but it really was more about, you know, what was nearest his property than anything else. He just wanted to find everything he could to to throw onto it on top of that. So, what do you think you could do to make him happy? Uh, I don't know there's anything I can do. I mean, I I just, you know, it's been five years. He's He's I I'll tell you that I did everything I could to befriend him. I offered the the truck that we're talking about to help him move from LOL. I offered mine and my

son's uh uh Let's get Let's get back on track, please. Yeah. Sorry about that. We're we're talking about running a business in a residential area where there is a lot of business debris in the yard. That's including trucks, tents, and loose stuff, uh, piles. If I could, I'd like to interject here. Jackie hasn't seen the property. I'd like to see it her herself firsthand because you know the way that you describe it if feel it's leading her into believing that it's so much worse than it is. No, no, no. But the thing is I've I've owned a lot of properties and I've had neighbor issues. So it really helped me to hear you describe to me the issue that started with your neighbor. And that's why I brought up like, you know, we we have to get into the details of the specifics because that's why we're here and it happens to be the truck or trucks, right? So I just wanted to get a picture of how can you maybe not have that truck which also was another there were I think we're trying to problem solve around how can we you know help you and hopefully get rid of the truck like because there is a lot of stuff and I'm not I'm not being misled by a description it actually you know it's I get what's going on, you know, and I'm sorry I wasn't at the site. Um, but I get what's going on and I think I think some some flexibility has to happen, you know. Yeah. I mean, I wish there was a solution. And I don't know that there is ever going to be anything that's going to satisfy that neighbor. um to the point to the to the

extent that I really think that this business is going to be affected adversely enough that it's going to have to move because I can't afford to store it off site. Um like I said to to Bill Ner earlier, I'm house house rich and cash poor. So, it's everything I've got to try to heat this place over the winter. So, um you know, as far as getting rid of that truck, I would love to. I don't know that there's anything I if there was an uh an alternative, I probably would have turned to it already. Um, you know, I think without having another alternative, I think I'm going to end up selling the house. I feel that's what's going to happen. The business is going to move. Um, 22 years serving Maynard and it's it's a small amount of debris over a long period of time before it ever goes anywhere. The truck doesn't make any noise. There's no traffic. I am one employee operating everything. So it's not like you've got three people and there's all kinds of traffic. It's me, myself, and I. Um so if I can't have a dumpster, I can't store it. The tent is another issue to put it in a tent. Um I've reduced a great amount to this point. There's more that needs to be removed. And I've already made mention today that the tent that's there is going to be downsized. I'm going to reduce the size of it so I can enjoy the yard that I've been striving for for 32 years and not have a parking lot. That's been my uh my my burning desire to not have cars in the back. But as far as getting rid of that that truck, um I mean maybe I could put it on the other side of my primary vehicle. I mean, if there's any one little thing I could do is park it on the opposite side, but then you see it from the street. It would block view from from the neighbor, but it would

make it obvious from the street. So, I don't know that there is a solution. And frankly, I'm I'm tired of this house and the neighbors, you know, that one in particular. So, I feel like the business is going to have to move. I don't know that I'm ever going to satisfy him. Um, yeah, I don't know any way out of this. Mr. Chair, can I make a suggestion? Oh, I'm sorry, Jackie. Before go ahead. Well, I just wanted to say that Jackie, one of the things you may have missed is we were talking earlier about planning arborites to block the view. I don't know if you heard that or not, but yeah. Yeah. And hemlocks, hemlocks are cheaper and the deer won't eat them and they grow really, really fast. So, we're we're here to look at his property and come up with an understanding of how to mitigate the visual and any other distracting impacts of the business, which also includes the stuff we can't distinguish from being business or personal debris on that property. I don't think the neighbor enters into this anymore. It's what the board has to deal with. And so we we've we've heard from most of you. Sorry you didn't hear some of our earlier comments from Brad, but Jerry, do you have anything to add? Any thoughts, comments? Yes. Um, as I listened to this and as I saw the Google Earth photos, you know, last meeting, visit the site tonight, uh, you know, my opinion is it regardless of of what the owner states and I I understand that it looks like a commercial yard. Whether all that equipment is being used or not being used for the business, not the issue. It's business type equipment that's in the yard. It isn't what you find in a normal residential backyard.

There's a picnic table. There's a lawnmower. There might be a wheelbarrow. Okay, I see that in anybody's backyard. This looks like the back end of a business. Now, I you can state that you're not using, you know, 85% of that for your business. I get it. But it's still businessoriented stuff and it's there. It's like the guy who likes to collect old cars, doesn't work on him, just wants to put them in his yard. Well, there's bylaws against doing that. I'm just So, never mind the vehicles. Uh my feeling is I I would have a hard time supporting your moving forward. Uh in that the yard looks like a commercial yard. That's what it looks like to me. It is not a residential at all by any stretch of any definition. That's okay. If if I could make a suggestion, we're going to have another meeting and we're going to vote on this in a month's time, right? Will we move to July? Could we have another walk through then? Because I'm still not done. I mean, the tractor I it's I don't know how you get to the picnic table in the backyard in the lawnmower. I mean, I've not ever had that and I'm trying to get to that and that's the means that I'm trying to get there. That is my dream to have a picnic table and a lawnmower. Um, but you know, it takes more than this 60-year-old guy and his physical abilities to do all that. So, this is my way of getting it to that point. So, if we were to have another walk through before the next vote, you know, a lot will have changed between here and then. Um, you know, there's still a lot of uh uh fallout from the the activities that I've been having to do in a short amount of time. M you know the when when um Paul Shiner describes my yard and he talks about engine lifts and stuff that's all stuff

that's in marketplace and it's on the way out. So it's not even something that is is going to remain. It's it's intended to be gone. So a lot of what I have is and I could show you too. You know there's other stuff there. I mean, I could go through all of it and prove to you that it's personal and not business. It has the look of commercial. I understand your point, but when you have a 140y old house that's 3,200 square ft, that's three stories up that needs everything. You know, I've been there 32 years. If you knew what that house looked like when I started to now, you'll see that it's been progressing. It was the eyesore of the street without question. Um, I brought it a long way. I'm still trying to get there. It's been it's defined my life. 32 years in one property and I've worked on it that entire time. A lot of it was lack of finances to be able to do more sooner. Um so, so what would happen? Let me interrupt again for a moment. What would happen if we postponed or continued this meeting until the same time next month? That would be much different than what happened in this last month. I could further reduce what you're calling business appearing stuff. So I will tell you it's personal. You claim it's business appearing which you know it it's up to anybody to decide whether they they think it looks like this or that. Um, you know, the the the stuff that I keep for this house is a lot like the stuff that I use in the business, but it's not for the business, but it it they share the same description. So, it's hard for me to tell you that this is business, this is personal. Really, none of it's business, but you know, I'd

have to go through everything itemized one thing at a time. So the only thing I can really do to satisfy you is make it all go away and have it have be a picnic table and a lawnmower. So what would be done within the next month? If you're suggesting we continue this for a month, how much of that could be dealt with in that month? Uh how do I quantify that? Um so the tent's going to get replaced with a smaller one. It'll be 2/3 the size of the one that's there. It'll be moved back. that does not require you've got two tents. Are you're only talking just one of them? So I'm replacing one of them. So one of them does not need to be 15 ft. It's it's below 200 f feet which is the the requirement the the parameter. Um the second the larger one that I had to move 15 feet from the property is 200 square feet. That is the threshold that requires a 15t set back. So if I make it 2/3 I can move it back. That'll give me a larger yard and more green space is what I'd call it. You know, it's um there's a lot of stuff, you know, when you look at the the the stuff that's behind the the the the platform truck, the it's not a dump. I we call it a dump, but it doesn't dump. But a lot of that is is stock that is on pallets, which makes it look taller, and then a boat put on top of it, which makes it look monstrous. But really, you take the boat away, you take the pallets out of it, it's going to be two feet off the ground. You know, it's so that would be changed. You saw stuff on the back side of one of the tents. It's the siding that fits the old house that you can't buy anymore. I don't throw it away. I have to save it because if I had to replace any, I'd need the old stock. You couldn't buy that stuff anymore. So, that's my own personal stock that's against the backside that you saw. Um, lawn

tractors, they haven't run in forever. I was an auto mechanic and a stellar mechanic. My hobby, my my dream was to take those, fix them up, and make toys out of them. You know that you can make race tractors, you can make all kinds of And it's it's it's mechanics on a small scale. So, that's the only reason I have those. I've dreamed of having these in a month from now. How much can you get rid of? You talked about underneath the boat. Is that staying or going? If I take the boat off, it'll be 50 to 70% of that pile gone just by taking the pallets out. Is there any way you could just get rid of that pile? I could. I could, but it's, you know, it's instead of upycling and recycling, it's it's putting it in the landfill. stuff that I might use, I've saved for that reason. But if it needs to go to the landfill to satisfy this board, it'll go to the landfill. I mean, well, this is where we're we're running into some challenges in coming up with an equitable resolution because we could, you know, continue this for a month and you would remove some stuff. It might still look like a business yard. It might have a little more residential character and so on. And we could keep going and you could keep defending everything. The challenge here is you have two large tents, debris that can't fit in the tents, and three trucks, one of which is a driving billboard with lots of evidence that it is a commercial vehicle. So to make this more residential in character as to what this house should be and this yard should be, we could make some decisions tonight that you might not like or we could come back and continue it in a month and at that month

time we could say yes he's really meaning to clean up this place and make it residential in character. I mean that to me is the challenge in front of us. All right. Right. So, you asked me to quantify it and I don't know how to quantify it. Do I say 50 60 70% reduction? You know, I don't know how to put a figure on that. It'll be greatly improved. So, in a month's time, I can only hope that what you see is what you're going to like. I don't intend or or prefer to continue this on forever. I want it closed. I want it done. I want to be where you are satisfied. I get my my word whether it's going to be allowed or disallowed. I can tell you right now that if it's disallowed after being in business for 22 years that it can't survive without a way to get rid of debris. I cannot do the work and leave them with the debris. So, if it ends up after all my efforts and we take the tour and you're you're happy, it's great. If you're not happy, the business is going to fold. It has to go. I have a question for you. Yeah. The last time we met and then you knew you'd have a month. Um because maybe you misunderstood what what was needed to be done. But what did you do in the past month? I got rid of a truck and I got rid of all the parts that went to that truck. I've survived by you know I I've No, no, no. That's okay. And you put some stuff on marketplace, too. You listed some stuff on marketplace. I have a lot of stuff on marketplace and and 50% of that's gone. Everything that they saw today that you did not see that was against the back of the house is all stuff that's on marketplace. If it hasn't sold yet because I use marketplace a lot and you probably know it's probably not going to sell. There's two pieces that are being picked up tomorrow morning and tomorrow night. Good of that. So it is moving. It has been moving and it's still moving. So you can say it's not but it is good. Good. It's moving. That's good. Mr. Mr.

Chair, may I make a suggestion that might help us to the next phase? Yeah, because unless we come up with something concrete, this can go on indefinitely. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. And this board has had experience with other we've had some other challenges with the similar similar type um hearings and it certainly can seems to me we've got two things to address offhand. the the vehicles and what is appropriate for the vehicles and then the question of appearance of commercial activity. So I would suggest this uh Mr. Gary has been able to hear all your concerns and I think they're all pretty much consistent with each other. I think it would be reasonable now uh if if if if he's willing to to we this is all now you've you've heard the concerns. Perhaps a thing to do would be draft up what you think an idea of what you think would be the next steps to address some of the board's concerns. Pass that along. In the meantime, we could continue the hearing till our next meeting in which is at the end of July and uh we can schedule a site visit and and you can explain and and that way the board can be comfortable knowing that you're making an attempt and you have a vision and a plan that's addressing what that you've heard pretty clearly from everybody here. On the other hand, we also take it where the neighbor I mean we can't do this around one neighbor and everybody knows that and this board I mean you can put yourself in their position. Each of these these are all volunteers and if their charge is not necessarily to talk about just one neighbor their charge is to make sure that the spirit of the bylaw is being met. Yeah. And and this is critical and put yourself in their position and you

can see kind of the way to go. I think and I think the site visit was I I did see a lot of progress. There's no question about it. But it's still you've heard their concerns and there there are good ideas out there to improve it to soften it. Can everything stay? I don't think so. But uh but at least you have a plan there. And if we schedule another site visit, well, I don't know if the rest of the board um was would I don't know if Jackie would probably want to go maybe before the rest of the board, but then we schedule the same thing next month. I mean, it's not going to I would if the board felt that that was appropriate. We kind of uh similar, but it would be the caveat would be give us a plan that I can distribute to the board so they don't look at me and say, "Bill, you're just kicking this can down the road. You're wasting our time." and all this stuff and say, "Okay, look it. I get it. Two tents and um materials that maybe I do use them for myself, but how is this board supposed to know?" Oh, that you know that this piece of machinery, they're not going to know. I mean, and and just take it with what they said. And I've heard I've heard vehicle concerns. I've heard screening of a and proper storage of materials where they're not visual, not uh you've had ideas where where you know to for trash management. I don't say any of these are the way to go, but I'm saying they're ideas to work on. But the the big thing in my opinion, and I represent everybody. I'm not just as a zoning board. I represent you. I represent the town. What I heard though is that the consistent message is the board wants it to look more residential and and I think that is the overwhelming theme here. I think it's totally reasonable to request or have the board want our next meeting is not till July.

That gives you five or six week. We're at July 28th. That gives you a lot of time to do some some homework. And you know what? In the end, you're probably going to be happier with it anyway based on what you told you know with the the organization. It does a it does provide a jump start and I think this makes total sense that I will be quiet Mr. Chair but I just wanted to throw that out if I can if I may. Sure. This has been my goal. It has been my goal all along to get it to a point I've got two kids. one is an honor roll uh honor honor society and the other one is deans list though they graduate uh the my daughter graduates in five years my goal is to be ready for that or sooner I I I'd have to stay in Massachusetts but is to get it to the point where it will be salailable at some point I can't sell it with this stuff in there I also would like to enjoy it for a short time before I do sell it because I've always wanted to have what you what the board is envisioning a more uh res residential uh view rather than a commercial. I it is my goal. It was my goal to begin with. So in the next month, you know, it's going to be in realizing my own vision which happens to be the same vision that you're asking me to provide. Um it's for 32 years I've wanted that. So it's it's not that you're enforcing something. It's that we all share the same uh want. Just just just a pause on that, Mr. Cormier. If you have been desiring this for 32 years, we as a board are a little worried that a month isn't going to make any difference at all. Holy cow. All right. The business has been in business for 22 years. I've

owned the house for 32 years. When the business started, I had no business. The economy tanked. I used the And it's small jobs. So, it's a b a business that doesn't make a ton of money because it's it's a small job repair business. The I only survived the business only survived because I was using the income from the rental. The rental is what made the business survive. Uh that hurt the mortgage. I was in near foreclosure for close to a decade. Okay. Okay. I I wanted to make a simple point that you say you've been desiring to have this as a residential use property for 32 years. That's what you said. Yeah. And and we're talking about coming back in a month and seeing an improvement. I'm a little skeptical that if you've been trying to do this for 32 years and you're we're asking in a month to have something major done. I mean, I'm hoping that that's a realistic goal because I don't want this to be pushed down the road, as Bill says, for month after month after month. And so, yeah, go ahead, Brad. You're on mute. Thank you. I'm sorry. Um, maybe to make it a little bit easier if we say what our expectations are because I agree with with Jerry and I agree with Lesie about what it is that that needs to be done, but maybe we should talk more specifically about what it is that we're looking for. So, it leaves nothing to his imagination per se as to what what the scope of something that we're looking at. Like for instance, for me to move forward with this, I would need to make sure I would need you to get rid of two of those commercial vehicles and be able to hide the tractor. And then if the

commercial vehicles that you get rid of are blocking um debris piles of of things, then you'd have to, you know, find a way of either removing those or screening them so it doesn't look like a commercial yard like Jerry was talking about. So those those are my concerns and and so those are sort of the lines that I'm looking at. That's that's great, Brad. And I and I'm I'm glad you're there speaking that out because I was struggling as to where to go with this because I agree with everything you said. I would also question the need for two storage tents in a residential yard. And if one of those could be made gone, that would be something I would enjoy seeing happen as well. And if and if he's, you know, got some spare materials and he wants to put up a garage instead of another plastic tent, that would be even better. Yeah. And so there's no money for the garage. The small tent has my the toolbox. as an ASC master certified technician. Where do I put my toolbox? You can't even lift that into the basement. So, that is going to be housed in in a tent. I don't want to build a garage because I want to leave the property open with nothing there for the the new buyers to imagine what their their use could be at that point. And, you know, that's a five-year plan that this will be everything you want as soon as the business is out of there. You know, I'm out of here like a shotgun in and a cannonball. Um, so what what we have been doing is sort of tossing ideas out. Uh, you heard my thoughts, you heard Brad's thoughts, and you've heard the others. Whatever I said might not go because the others might shoot me down. The point is these are the kind of things that would likely

change this charact property character to be very strongly as a residential property and not as a storage yard for a business because right now it looks like a storage yard for a business. Mhm. All right. We'll just have to wait. Give it a month and you know I I hope to alleviate your pessimism. Okay. Go ahead, Jerry. Yeah, just just just quick and certainly not trying to be negative, but more realistic. In my view, if I come out at the end of July and it still looks like a commercial yard and we come back on Zoom, it's a no vote for me. That's it. I mean, I I can say it right now. It's a no vote. It it it's going to have to look residential, not commercial. I understand your issues. I I fully understand and appreciate it. But for what you're trying to do, you need to not live in a congested uh residential zone that you live in. You need to live in an area that's you you own two or three acres and in one of the back acres you put all this stuff out of sight, out of mind. Here you're in a you know, not your fault, not anybody else's fault. You're you bought a home in a congested area. You're in it and you're trying to run a business. you're trying to save and keep all these other memory things, that's great, but you're going to have to rent a garage somewhere and put them all in it and go by and look at them. Uh, but if it doesn't, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't look more residential by the end of July, I I hate to say I I'd be a no vote. That's just just have my input for what it's worth. Thank you, Jerry. That's that's very clear. I appreciate that. Can I have two minutes? Sure. Go ahead,

Leslie. I have to go get the cat. Oh, you want a minute? I thought you wanted. So, we'll take a two-minute pause while she captures her cat. I guess we still haven't heard from I haven't heard anything from the other applicant. I I I'm the only thing I'm wondering is if they had misunderstood and and thought that they said they were going to request a withdrawal possibly, but maybe the thing to do would be continue them if they don't show up by the end of the meeting, too. I did swing by that site. Is a monster. Hello, cat. There we go. Okay, Pat is captured. Yeah. So Leslie, did you want two minutes to talk or is it two minutes just for the cat capture? Well, it was just to get the cat, but um I agree with Jerry that um I really would like to see it look more residential. And I I don't know. It looked to me as if there was a lot of space unoccupied in in those tents and I don't know why there has to be so much stuff all over the place. Exactly. Right. It's in transition. I've been asked to move the tent which meant I had to reduce 50% of it in order to move it. So what was in the back now was put outside for it to move. The stuff that's in You're right. It's 50% empty. You're right. There's a lot of that that is only there temporarily. So, you know, what's being viewed as, you know, stuff that I'm keeping, it really was just put there in a temporary basis. I mean, I it's it's rained. I only have Saturdays to do this

work. It's rained 13 Saturdays in a row. I've asked my family, my my my two sons to help, and they don't want to come out if it's raining. So, I mean, it a lot of that tent is 50% empty. the the larger one. I want to reduce that and it will be empty. But it sounds like now I cannot have the tents that those are deemed a commercial view, you know, when that it's still going to be just just for a moment. That was my opinion. It's not necessarily the board's opinion. Well, I know, but I've got um uh what was his name? I don't see him in the camera. Who's who's in the big view? Jerry. Jerry. Yeah. You know that if it still looks commercial and if you know I'm getting that if the two tents are there then that's still looking commercial. So it sounds like I need to I can't have the tents which if they're closed I mean you don't see what's in them. You know it's going going to be smaller and it's going to open up the yard much bigger to be able to move it within within the 15 ft because it no longer now needs to be. So, that tent got put in the middle of the yard to make that 15 ft. If I reduce the size of it and I can move it back to where it was, I'm still going to be 8 ft from the from the property line. You know, it makes that yard look much better. So, you know, I don't know how I'm ever going to get around. Um, you know, one tent has my toolbox, it has my lawn mower, it has my snowblower, it has, you know, I've got a wood chipper um and a little bench. You know, that's what the one has. The other one was a little bit of a workshop. You know, I I I enjoy tools. Um, so that was the one that I could function out of, but it's according to everybody here, it's it's it's viewed as commercial, which in in order for me to be in

business, it means that I can't have anything that looks business. So, it's it's it's a a struggle that I have that I can't have anything because everything anything that I have is going to look commercial. Now, if I didn't have a business, I could have that and it wouldn't be viewed as an issue. Well, the guy's got a little shop. He likes to he likes to take her. So, you know, I'm caught in a hard between a rock and a hard place here. So, it's like I've got to get rid of everything that I you know, and everything that I I that it it is me. It's my character. It's who I am. But, you know, so the only thing I'm I'm being allowed to do is is just get rid of it all and I don't know how to get around the two trucks. All I can do is put a screen. You just just let me interrupt there for a moment on the truck issue. Mr. Cormier, you had said you got rid of a truck. I don't recall there being four trucks. You had four trucks there. I thought there were just three. There was one when when um uh the building inspector came by. Um there was it was part of my survival. So I I I used to snowplow. So it was a snowplow truck. That's how I survived over the winter. So that truck is gone. The plow that went with it is gone. The parts that went with that truck are gone. So that was before we had our meeting last month. Yes. Okay. cuz I I hadn't heard that there were four trucks. I heard there were only three. So, excuse me on that one. Yeah. What it means to say though is that I've been moving a lot of stuff. I mean, I've gotten rid of a lot of steel. I've gotten rid of a vehicle and all the stuff that went with that truck, which was a snow plow and accumulated parts over the last since I've been here. I've always maintained a plow truck in order to make winter money. Um, it's all gone. It's it's no longer there. So that that

should been a significant change from what was initially there that that was part of the initial reason for this. There are commercial spaces and I don't I haven't researched it in Maynard, but there are commercial spaces that are simply a garage door warehouse mini space. And it sounds to me like if you had one of those, you could move everything into that, still live where you are and enjoy the backyard that you want to enjoy. And that that's a minor expense. That comment is an assumption that I have the money to pay for that. I'm barely holding on to this house. It's 3200 ft to heat. It's more than I can afford. I'm not I'm barely making it. So to have to pay for a garage to put stuff, I'd rather sell the house and move. I'll make some money on that. And I don't know where I'll go from there, but um I can't survive. I literally can't afford storage, a truck storage, you know. So So just the the storage places that are all over the place, they're talking two or 300 a month. Add that up over a year. A trailer. Uh uh you can get a parking spot for a vehicle. Also, there are places in town. I looked, I asked, you know, we're talking $300. If you talk 10 months, that's $3,000 added the extra two months, whatever, $600. So, $3,600 per year. I mean, I can't do that. Yeah, I understand. I'll end up moving. Yeah, I understand your challenge there. Economics tend to rear their ugly head at the wrong time. But, but that's a residential area, and that's what we're hanging our hat on right now. Okay. We want this to be maintained as a residential area and for the last however many years you have been uh under the radar and sorry it hurts when we bring the radar screen

down and look at it but that's where we are right now and I apologize that you're stressed out for this. So Brad, you had an excellent thought about what we want to see by the next month for him to start running through his checklist. Do we want to propose that as a motion or just as a recommendation, Brad? Maybe we should just use it as a recommendation and and see see where it goes. I don't know what the rest of the board thinks. I agree. Agreed. Y and so Brad, do you want to uh start that list and and see see what happens? Okay. Um yeah, there's um two things that um for me that are non-starters is um is you have two commercial two too many commercial vehicles. So you need to get rid of two of the commercial vehicles. So you have one commercial vehicle and you need to be able to um make the tractor screened or disappeared or or something so it's not out out in the yard. And then the third thing is any of the debris piles um that are exposed once the commercial vehicles have been moved. Um then those need to disappear as well. And that's the two that I have. Anybody else wants to add? I mean feel free. So the commercial vehicles cannot be on site other than the primary. Um, one commercial vehicle, not three. That's I'm moving. I I have to move. There's no way. I There's no way. I am done. You're forcing a business out of town. I cannot afford that. There's no way. I'm not making enough money. I Okay. I I

I understand your financial your financial situation. I'm sorry, M. I mean, it's a difficult situation. We We do get it. I've owned three businesses in my career. I I I get it. I financed them. I've gone to the bank. I filed Chapter 11 or one business. So, I I know that. Been there, done that. Yep. Me, too. You know, had all those good and bad experiences. It's unfortunate for you at this time, but it's also we we have to make decisions that are the right decisions for another property that's in a similar situation to you that comes up three months from now. We can't make a decision that accepts makes a large exception for your property and yet somebody else comes along and looks for something and references back and says, "Well, you did it for him. Why can't you do it for me? So, we need to interpret what the guidelines are. We need to stick with them. It is unfortunate financially that it doesn't necessarily at this moment work in your favor. But, unfortunately, that's the reality. It just it just is. But, you know, we can certainly give this another month and try it and let's let's see how good it looks. I think we're all willing more than willing to do that and work with you. Uh but but there has to be some substantial change in the next month in my view. All right. I mean, I've already built two privacy fences, you know, that they're not one's not complete, the other one is complete. Um uh you know, I'm I'm going to be looking to reduce, but also preparing to move. you know, if I don't get the decision that I need, I have to be up after 32 years, 22 years in business, never had an issue. You can say I got away with it

for all this time, but I was looking at five years. It's been my life's work to improve this property and I'm cut short before I ever see the finish. You know, I'm going to have to do something that I have to do by, you know, by force and it's not going to allow me to continue. So, I'm going to be cut short before I see the finish line when I've spent my entire life and a lot of misery in surviving in this two family with unbelievable stories. Um, it's it's just a a very painful way to end my time in Maynard, having contributed to this town the entire time. I've been a good resident of this town. I've not had any complaints. I've done everything. I've gone to town meetings on behalf of the town. I've spoken at town meetings. You know, I've got a lot invested in this resident in this town. Mr. Cormier, we we understand and I and I think Jerry said it quite passionately that we understand your issues, but we as a board need to look at the future and consistency of our decisions. I understand that and I appreciate it. Just know what you're doing to me. I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your your position. So, out of curiosity, you say you have a two family and you had it rented. Is it rented now? It is not. That's a good source of income. That's part of my story that you don't know the rest of the story. So, the reason I have I don't need to hear the full story. The point is um you're squealing about one kind of money and there's another kind of money waiting to be had. So, I mean, I I understand your your frustration. You don't want to hear this. You don't want to hear the reasoning, and you're giving me your your your your opinion without knowing why I'm saying what I'm saying. So, if I

could just give you my quick explanation. I rented for a long time. I built a business doing small jobs. It didn't make enough money. The house, the more the rent that I got supported the business. The business wasn't making enough money to pay the mortgage. The mortgage ended up late. I was in a rears for nearly a decade. I got uh uh I needed a modification. Um all of those things happened. Then I had bad tenants that were the tenants from absolute hell. It took me 10 months with Blaine to Fritus to get them out. And at the end of that I realized how vulnerable landlords are that I couldn't rent again. So for that reason I will never rent again. I I wanted to sell at that point and I'm going to end up selling anyways. So, I understand the rental things. I've been there. I've I've rented several houses, several apartments to tenants. I've taken some to court. I understand that. But you move forward. So, you got some recommendations from us. It's not a formal motion. It's simply recommendations. You don't have to do it, but they're recommendations. And as Jerry had said, next month is a a a decision point for him how much you have done. I'm going to do it. I'm going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Okay. So, with that, I would like to have a motion to continue this hearing until uh July 28th. Do you want to add a site visit in there at 6:15? Uh yeah. Yeah, we should. Yeah, we should do that again. Was that July 28th, right? Okay.

Okay. Well, I make a motion to continue the hearing on the property at 30 to 32 Walnut Street until July 28th with a site visiting visit at 6:15 followed by a meeting of the board by Zoom at 7. Do I get the secondary seconds? All in favor? I I I I Thank you, Jackie. So, that that's where we stand, Mr. Carmier. Uh we'll be at your property July 28th at 6:15 to see your progress. That's the plan. Thank you. Thank you for your time and good luck. Thank you. Thank you. So, the other applicant has not No, they stopped in. They stopped in and they were talking about making a an adj because I I asked him about I needed new materials for the board to review. uh and and they he said he he thought they're just going to uh withdraw and uh do everything that would just require you know standard um building permits. But I didn't hear anything from this. So my recommendation I would recommend just meeting anyway that gives him plenty of time and if he withdraws if he wants to withdraw in the meantime he can do it and we'll just bring it to the board in July. So we're gonna get a motion to continue that one. I would recommend that. Am I good to go? Oh, yes. You're you're fine. We'll see you in a month. Good luck, Mr. Cormier. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. Oh, there goes my battery.

Okay. So, I make a motion to continue the um the hearing for 25 Garfield Street until July 28th at 7 o'clock. second. Um, let's let's watch that timing of it. If we've had a site visit on this this case, the current case, and we're back here, you see how the time stretches. So, I wouldn't make it seven. I would make him seven or eight. Okay, it's good. Uh, oh, I lost we lost walking around looking for my No, I'm just uh looking for my charger. I got it. Has cat got your tongue, Leslie? No, but he's being chatty. Okay, so you up ready to go, Jackie. Oh, who? What? No, sorry. I was talking to Leslie. You all set now? Yeah. Plugged in. I thought she had a robo robo cat. She had to charge a cat. I wasn't sure. Misinterpreted. Well, that's why we have mice on our computers. We need cats, too. That's right. That's right. That's right. So, Bill, is there anything on the lawnmower people? That was some emails flying around at one point. Uh, yeah. Um, they Let's Let's refresh because this was the case we had a couple years ago, the lawnmower repair guy. Yeah. Um, he has indicated that he is not renewing anything. He is not in business anymore. He's done. he, you know, it's and so at this point he's off of ours and he's on to Rick's list. So we're And the same with Well, it's a different board I'm working with on 76, but yeah. Um, yeah. So, he's just his permit is expired. He doesn't have a

permit. It's up to Rick. We had suggested he put a fence across the driveway to camouflage the the 47 lawnmowers that he has in his driveway. Never did. And when I drove up to look at this other house, you know, the one for the addition around the corner, I says, "Wait a minute. He's got more lawnmowers than I've ever seen there." So, is there anything else that we need to know about, Bill? No, I think the board did a good job tonight with a very difficult situation and recognized the challenges uh but uh kept it kept on task on path and I think that was critical. I think uh Jackie um I think you get an idea but um do you'll be able you think you'll be able to make the next uh site visit? Yeah, I'm going to actually talk to my boss and I'll I'll make sure that I can get there by 6:30. I think 6:30 is realistic. Um, if need be, you know, we could I could arrange another time for Yeah. I mean, I can go by practically any time really. I just can't walk around obviously on his property. No, no, no. I would I could arrange it with him. That's I was out there today. Yeah, maybe. And that way I definitely won't hold anybody up. Well, let either way, if you think it's going to be at that point, why don't you just reach out to me? Keep in touch with me. Well, um, and if we, um, want to, uh, arrange for a different visit, we can do it. But it's, I think it's important that you see that. But you get the gist of it, and you seem to have a Yeah, I totally get the gist of it. And I I just like someone else said, first of all, and I'll be brief because I know, first of all, I held you guys up a long time, but I really appreciate that people are bringing up what it's not an elephant in the room. You know, I'm I'm glad you're really bringing up the real, you know, you need to get rid of this crap, you know, and I'm happy to see that

because that's what he needs to hear. And I do also think that we do have to close be careful, Jackie. We do have to be careful because we we're we closed the hearing, so we really shouldn't Oh, okay. I'm sorry. But it also seemed that it just I just appreciate how everyone went at this. Um, and I think it gave him a good, you know, professional things. Yeah, that's it. Can I Jackie, if you need to catch up with anything, you can reach out to me and we can speak. Uh, okay. Individually. Lesley, you had something? Yeah. Um, it's it's tangential and I've got my uh tree person hat on, but I'm How did he get permission to excavate on the other side? Uh, it's Well, I mean, there were rules about that. You have to get a permit to do excavation, right? No, not from not on private property. There there are rules and DPW is aware of it, but um I don't know the specifics about this uh but they're aware of it and um you know DPW is and it's it's something that we you know it's out of our purview on that. Well, you should call 811 to get the utilities out there to make sure you're not hitting anything too. It hasn't yet. And that was on a satellite book that was a few years old. So he I don't know when he did it, but it was a few years ago. Yeah. Well, I I can't stand what he how he savaged. I mean, he said those re roots, but we should not but we shouldn't talk about this stuff. Okay. Okay. Also, you can call me you can call me, you know, and get me alone. So, I know there's I know there's ton of bylaws that say how much uh you can remove uh without a special permit. Yeah. Dirt and and how much you can bring in, right?

But I don't know what those are, but they're they are in the bylaws bylaws. It is. That's a special permit for the planning board if they do. Um so, I had another item, Bill. Yeah. And this goes back to a meeting that you and Zoe and I had in trying to polish up our rules and regulations. And so where do we stand on Zoe's edits to Zoe's Zoe's going to be back? She's going to be working her way into taking over the board. Uh she just she's tonight she's at a class. Um I will be at the next meeting with her, but uh and I'd let her answer that because it's going to be on her schedule. But I think she she's very good with this and she has it started already the one that you have. I mean um but I I she can give you a better date next month or or we can talk offline. You and I can talk with her. Okay. But just just to bring the other guys up to speed on this is we need to have a set of rules that we follow for conducting our meetings. And we had some old drafts kicking around and I was dragged into the principal's office with my notes and and they they shredded it and they came up with their own version. No shredded and and that that's where we stand. It's it's it's a work in progress, but we need to have something to CYA and everything else to make sure that if we have a very contentious issue that they take the board to task that we said we followed our rules. Mhm. And that's that's that's where that's going and it ain't there yet. Oh, but it's it's a good it's a good thing. And by the way, do we I assume we still need to hang on to our um lawyer league packets from Summer Street.

Well, that's a good question. Um they have moved the business. They have the artists. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know them. Really? They still have front. Yeah, he still has stuff going. I'm not sure the exact situation on it right now. Um because there was it was you know it got civil or maybe it got univil. Univil. Yeah. Univil. Civil. Yeah. And um so they're out of the barn. Is that it? I'm not sure. I I haven't heard anything uh in a while. I I I just heard that they have uh moved that that part of the business out of town. Oh, I'll find out at the New Year's party next year. There you go. Have to wait. I mean, it's difficult. And even even tonight, you know, my my comment, you know, that it it it's difficult in congested areas for what one person thinks is art and beauty and whatever, the next person on the roadway doesn't think so. Um, so you know, things like that. It's nice when you own two or three acres and you got the barn and the, you know, two acres back. It's sort of out of out of view of everybody else and makes life easier. So these are tough decisions. I understand. Yeah. Very tough. Not either. As I said, it's a good guys did a good job. They're small properties, a small footprint, and you're trying to put a lot of stuff in it, and you know, it's got to look right. Got to blend in. I know. I want a I want a chicken coupe, but I'm not even going to go there. Yeah. No. No. You can't get the rooster neighborhood. Yeah. Can't get a rooster. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I used to have roosters, but I had five acres. No, I would I like my neighbors. Well, our neighbors here uh our neighbors

here, what am I saying? my neighbors at home. I had to fill a um like I they're very agriculturally oriented I guess in the middle of Winchester, but they they have chickens and um you know I was like I didn't know but I said so I had to sign a little thing that I was okay with it and they'd been fine. Nice. But but like the roosters where the trouble comes in. So they because they banned roosters and we tried to ban them at if you remember a couple years ago at town meeting. Remember? Wasn't that the night we did firearms? Yes, I think so. Rooster Roosters beat out the firearms. Oh, it's it's a joke around town about the roosters. That's pretty funny. I haven't heard a rooster in a while. I think the uh there's been a lot of bobcats and coyotes around which may have solved the problem for me, but Huh. Yeah, I guess it would, wouldn't it? Yeah, my trail camera catches coyotes and foxes every so often in the backyard. Hey, we're getting there done anywhere near the end or what do you think, folks? What tonight? Well, it's 8:41. That's all. I'm just reminding people in with us. I thought Yeah, I thought it was important that we after we get our case load done for tonight to just chat for a moment. Good grief. That's fine. And it was great seeing everybody in person or most of us in person this afternoon. Yeah. I haven't seen you guys in like years. Yeah, it was good tonight. Yeah. Next Zoom I'm actually gonna have my face on here. I just haven't gotten around to it. Sorry. So, just just to to formalize this, I need one more motion tonight. Oh, to close it. To close the meeting. I'll make a motion to close the meeting. All right, Gary. Second. All right. All

in favor? I I Maybe you can send the minutes next time, Bill. I did. I sent them to I did send them to you. I know, but for next tonight's meeting, send them. You have a hidden agenda. The problem with your your town website, Bill, is if it's a word document, it does not display. It downloads. Oh. Oh, yes. I think I save. Yeah, but it should be PDF, isn't it? No, no, it's a word document. All right, I'll make sure I save it as a PDF, too. Yeah, save as a PDF. That'd be good. All right, guys. Oh, good. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Um. Oh, that's