Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

we will actually get this work I all right it's in progress again okay so welcome everybody this is the mayard zoning board of appeals it's 7:05 pm on the 27th of February 2025 and let's introduce the members I'm I'm Paul Shiner the the chairman John John Corell member of the zba lesie uh Leslie Bryant member of the zba vacationing Jerry I'm vacationing only seven months a year that's all now come on uh yeah Jerry cber board member Brad Brad Schultz ultimate member excellent so that's who we are uh we have a couple items on the agenda today um first one is to review the minutes approve the minutes from sometime last fall November 25th did everybody a chance to look those over uh yes I did yes I found one correction I made that Mr chair okay and that was to put Brad's first name on Brad's listing yeah it wasn't wrong it just wasn't there yeah any any other Corrections or alterations I gu get a motion to approve I make a motion to approve the minutes of the November 25th 2024 meeting of the zoning board of appeals with the correction as so noted second I heard get in my

car so uh call in Favor John yes lesie yes Jerry yes Brad yes and I'm yes as well so we approve the minutes now we have a public hearing for 20 Walcott Street the applications filed by the owners James Roar and Rebecca Solomon at 20 Walcott Street seeking a special permit approval to construct additions to the front and side of the property which would extend existing nonconformities Northerly front setback uh they want requirement is 25 ft but they only have 10 and an easterly front setback they require 25 ft but they only have 13 subject property is a pre-existing non-conforming single family dwelling on a non-conforming lot due to insufficient Frontage area with setbacks and other inside setbacks located in a general residence and so we will have the petitioner uh State their case and we will then deliberate and so forth so I believe that's you up there James and Rebecca you can yes y nice to meet you guys we we also I think have some some neighbors uh joining us uh on this thing too just our next door and across the street and down the street a little bit good we'll get to them in a minute but first you want to State why why we want to make a motion for you or not sure we'll just let's just let's just give you get into it so we bought our house in the summer of 2003 our daughters were born and raised and educated in mayard we've lived here for almost 22 years um friends and neighbors that we love um and we've been privileged to see this town grow and

change and it's we love it here um and can't imagine living where anywhere else uh last April we had a house fire uh it was it was um contained in the basement thank no one was hurt it was electrical in cause uh and uh it's and since the fire was mostly in the basement or all in the basement there that was fine but the house suffered extensive smoke damage toxic smoke and so had to be completely gutted um it's been challenging but we're grateful that no one no one got hurt we're all here and healthy and that is going to give you a overview of right so we just wanted to share what our the this experience has been um unfortunately our first insurance adjuster was negligent and egregiously mishandled our claim um he was fired but not before he let our house sit with all the toxic soot on all our our belongings for five months and he closed out the claim without letting anybody know so this complicated things a lot for us um by the end of August we were actually assigned new adjustors and we were really excited to be moving forward and then unfortunately due to miscommunication or incompetence or we don't even really know what instead of having us go through all of our belongings to salvage what could be salvaged um without our knowledge or consent they dumped all of our belongings in a landfill and um did not recover them so that was all of our family photos all of our furniture that maybe would have been able to be salvaged our desks that included their contents still intact which was like all our tax returns and jewelry and money um all our kids Treasures all that stuff so that Parts an ongoing issue that we're dealing with with a mitigation company

and um that did that and our insurance company yeah um want me to say this yeah okay so all right so first we're you know we're so grateful that we were able to keep the you know basic shell of the house and that and especially that nobody was hurt but it hasn't been a great situation and and we have an opportunity to turn something that's been really challenging for our family into something really positive and just make a lot of lemons out of this uh lemonade out of the CR lemons and that's why we're hoping to make some changes to our house to make it even more wonderful because we really have to redo we have to redo the whole thing so before we had a kitchen living room dining room on the first flooor and two bedrooms and a bathroom on the second floor and we're really keeping that mostly with a few changes we'd like to convert our we had a screen in porch and we'd like to convert that porch space into year round livable area so that we could put in another bathroom and um and but because we fell fell in love with the house because of the porch we wanted to maintain some uh similar space and that's why we wanted to put on a screen and deck on the back and in order to accommodate that we are going to be taking down the existing garage to comply with the building codes on that um yeah our our um our architect Donnie G from OS solivan Architects and our contractor Joe Fano from U Northshore design have worked in mayard before and uh and had good experience with everyone here and um and for this project we have been working um with the planning director and Building Commissioner to

make sure what what we have here is is respectful of all the bylaws and variances and hopefully um we think this uh project is indicative of that and hopefully uh we can get some additional living space and then and improve our property and yeah hopefully uh the neighborhood too and I think that's about all we have to say about that right yeah unless you um have questions well one one thing that I I'm curious about you said the the garage yeah you're taking it down because of something I didn't understand why uh there was a there's a there's a deck on I think on the drawings you guys have there's we we were wanting to put a deck on the back of the house um and I guess the variances don't allow it was too close the's existing structure which is kind of half fallen down anyway so we figured why not just take take it down thing down and then okay but you're not taking it down because of some rule you're taking it down because it's in your way no we were taking it down because it wasn't going to we couldn't make the deck it wasn't going to be in compliance according to what our architect what our architect was was told by um was it I don't know did he talk with Bill or I'm not sure who he talked to I'm not sure who he talked to but it there was something that wasn't allowed and so you know we're happy to just take the garage down for that reason yeah I believe he said if you do that then it shouldn't be then it shouldn't be an issue the deck shouldn't be a problem just based on the variances Bill do you know what they're talking about yes um essentially um the the garage that was moved well let let me back up a minute this was this is a

non-conformity because of the size a lot so you know everything in it was was is non-conforming according to uh current regulations there was a garage that was just about on the um property line it's not the rear property line because this is a two Frontage street so it's on the side and um so what the Building Commissioner had recommended uh here I'll share it to so you can see here uh was that um as the applicant said removing the garage uh makes it um more compliant and eliminates the need for variance also I think was what Rick was thinking here but can you see this now yeah yeah so you can see where the the garage here let's see um this is the current garage here zero set back here uh the the uh new structure would go in here um and I think Rick's reasoning was that if they're going to do something new here and and I me I'm not 100% sure of his thinking on this but but that the the new structure would lessen the non-conformity so everything that's being proposed either lessens the non-conformity or uh um stays the same and by removing the garage it brings it into more um conformance with it as well if if they're in agreement with that that's fine I just was confused as to the source of the logic okay thank you yeah yeah we're okay with that absolutely so do you have a a plot plan there showing what the new building would look like

um yes you guys should have that you don't have that one I'm not sure what I got we uh we yeah we submitted it U last oh is that that next diagram with a little little porch and stairs behind um perhaps yes that sounds like it might be I'll share it I've got it here I think if this is the one um sorry we just have a hard copy we don't okay no worries this I've got yeah is that is that it is that what your new plan is yes that's for the yep that's the first floor here's the deck and that's that looks pretty close that's that's yeah right I'm not sure that's the updated one but that's pretty that's pretty darn close yeah oh no actually that is that is I'm sorry yeah that is the one yep okay just looking at it the wrong basically you squared off the house a little bit in that front corner yes yeah yeah you can see roughly well my line is terrible but that's the 25 foot setback okay and so what you are asking from the board here is a continuation of which setback lines these um I think I could probably show you those better so the the the new structure here um right this um right now the set you know the the side this is actually the side setb so it's at one and a half here so right here they're extending the non-conformity a little bit into the 25 setback here um but this again this is there's an existing non-conformity already with

the um garage so I'm trying to get a handle on extending or creating and that line you drew looks like it's created well it it it is I see your point but remember right now there's a garage there they're proposing to remove that yeah the garage is out of the way so I'm looking at the house footprint that's right and it's and the house footprint is is it extending or creating it is extending and they're going to remove what it was encroaching in there but there's already an extension there's already an encroachment into the side setback as of this minute and the the size of the lot renders it it really impractical to recreate the house anyway where it could be I I yeah I I understand those I'm just trying to see to me an extending would be like taking that dotted line on the right side of the building and drawing it further to the front to the bottom there that would be an extension in my mind yeah draw straight up now bill this yeah that if you'd extend that to me that's an extension that yeah well it it is but remember the what we're talking about here now I is um regarding the uh is involving the interpretation of the um Attorney General on single family two family houses here I'll pull this one up in that if there's an existing non-conformity and um here I'll pull this up and let me share this now if there's an existing non-conformity this was a change it was a couple of years ago we started working with and

and um here where we go report this guy here um in situation where an existing non-conformity is ended or increased by a proposal a special permit is the appropriate mechanism so in this case you know there is an existing non-conformity extended or increased um the special permit is appropriate mechanism what we're trying to avoid here is the variance as you you know yeah I I I understand that bill I'm looking at is I I don't want to do a variance I I would I would look at a special permit for sure sure sure but what I'm trying to get a clarification on on is if you look at that map of the house with that dotted line on the right yeah extending it you're not giving an increased non-conformity you're just extending an existing non-conformity by pushing out that little screen porch or yeah screen porch on the bottom on the Lewis Creek on the Lewis side yes yes so you're simply extending a pre-existing nonconformity that is correct and the other one that you're looking at is that that's not the only nonconformity is it because you're going to put a screen porch on the front of the on the Walcott Street side well on the wall on the wall uh yeah but on the wut street side is where we currently have the screened in porch and it it's an L shape which is why it says the front and side oh okay so it's the other side of that the proposed addition I missed that sorry that's yeah so that's the part that's going to get turned into livable space and extend that there's one little piece in front that didn't have the porch on it

um yeah yeah exactly right and again that that is an extension of an existing nonconformity exactly not you're you're not pushing out new stuff it's simply drawing a line more Square yes exactly yeah okay okay that's what I'm I'm trying to get at just you know what's the change in footprint got and it is not going more into the the setbacks simply extending the lines of the setbacks exactly yes correct okay and this this coverage of the lot actually goes down because you're destroying the garage yes like that yeah okay so I I will take a pause and see if any of the board members have questions um I was just this this sounds really ignorant to be asking it at this point but can we go back to that map and just show me front rear side side yeah there well there is no rear remember okay two fronts and two sides right just I can't show you that okay I can only show you okay no it's confusing because and in the new bylaws uh that we um we drafted we put a they have a graph they have a a graphic in there just because people were getting confused with that but so this counts as a front here lesie yeah front so this is a side and this is a side

okay oh I like my pen look at that getting better well yeah front front and so we're um where do you where is your front door like and where will you have your driveway the front the front door is on Walcott Street so that it's right in there and the drive we we do have a driveway um which will not go away that won't change that's just that's kind of on the edge of the leis Street the that backside or whatever so where the garage was the garage was at the back of the driveway yeah the driveway is still there in front of it um and the and where our front door had been was you enter through the screen porch and then you go through the front door and we're going to have the front door essentially in the same place it's just going to be moved out to accommodate you know instead of being a door and a door because of the screen porch since that'll be a mud room kind of a thing so it will be it'll be in the same place in terms of where it is on the street it'll just move forward yeah if that does that make sense okay hey any other questions lesie um no all right John had his hand up yeah the question bill can you put that back up sorry uh yeah it's a great practice tonight Bill you're really getting good at it yeah look at that I can draw something too if you want yeah so my question is um on the south side where where the garage was there was a 1.7 foot set back where the garage going on

this it says that's getting removed so the setback will be 15t on this chart but on the table on the other sheet it said that 15 was actually 21 feet I'm just trying to figure out which is right I think I could answer that for you John I think that 15 feet is just demarking the setback triangle okay and the 21 fet actually probably goes to the stairs oh okay right okay Goa thank you I just leave that thing up yeah if they stayed within the setback requirements here all they could put on there is one of these micro houses it's pretty micro already yeah oh Jerry any questions no I'm good Paul the the clarifications the questions you kept going at helped me understand exactly what was happen garage went away and it basically squared out the house Define the the house itself that's all you're doing is really yes better defining it and and I'm good with that I'm good I have no other questions thank you okay Brad I've left you out any questions no actually uh everything looks very straightforward right uh Mr chair we do have uh some members of the public here good thanks for reminding me I keep forgetting that part of the meeting so is there anybody that wishes to speak in favor of this petition I would Peter go ahead so I'm uh Jim and Becca's next door neighbor at 18 Walcott Street um oh Peter could you I'm sorry could you yeah if you could I

just announce your name your address just for the record oh sure Peter hunt 18 Walcott Street thank you okay can I can is it okay to go ahead and speak now sure please okay great um so I I think Jim and Jim and B house and our house and the house on the other side I think we're all built on the same model and then modified in various ways our house and 16 um have been pushed out to the front and both have decks on the back in fact the back deck on the house next to us at 16 um was made into made into part part of the house it was originally a three season deck and was was made into a Four Season room as part of the house um yeah so I'm I mean I'm I'm totally happy to have Jim and Becca you know push their out house out in in whatever way they want what works for them I know they been through a lot with the fire thank you yeah and i' I'm I'm afraid I've got a run I've U I've got a couple of things to take care of thanks pet appreciate your comment Peter anyone else wishes to speak in favor yes please this is Laurel Buckley I'm at 22 Walcott Street so just on the other side of Jim and Becca um and just totally supporting what they're trying to do um they've been through a lot they've got a you know lot of stake in the in the community they've been great neighbors for well over 20 years now so just wanted to show some support tonight you so much thank you we really appreciate it thank you y so that looks like anybody that's already on the meeting I don't see anybody wanting to join uh you still have a a Janice person here did you want to say anything or you just observing

oh Jan is oh I don't know if can you hear me um mute oh yeah let's see ask un mute Janice can you hear me we can hear you oh JY oh yeah sorry um she might be on so she I know she's coming from work but uh can you hear me oh there you are sorry sorry I I was having some technical difficulties interestingly enough um I'm Janice Canales um I spoke with Bill I think a couple of days ago I'm actually um new to mayard but I am a zoning attorney for a telecommunications company in Massachusetts we're National but I work out of wuber so in this particular case I just wondered if you had any comments oh no none okay thank you observing as I just suggested that she come into she's interested in joining uh a border committee and I thought it would be good if she attended this see us at work okay oh welcome thank you so now what do we do we need to have our discussions so board members and Bill I I can never get is straight as to how I close the public comment versus not closing the public meeting versus deliberating I never get those straight so I'll leave it up to you you can close uh just uh close the public comment uh you can close the hearing if you want uh and um but then nothing new comes in which in this case you know you

probably I think we've heard you've heard most of the stuff um I just say close public comment after anything else um close public hearing deliberate and then your charge tonight would be um determining if the um adverse effects of the proposed use in this case the CH the um reconstruction um you know outweighs the beneficial impacts to the town does not I'm sorry does not outweigh it and that you've considered the other criteria uh which you know we can go over if you want again to no no that's that's fine that's fine and then if you find it h I'm sorry and then if you find it has then you just decide if the um you grant the special permit as requested okay what bill was referring to is we need to consider the impact of this project on social economic or Community needs traffic and parking Public Services neighborhood character impact on the environment and any fiscal impact th those are the criteria that we need to consider in this case so let's if if we're done with getting comment out of the public we can close that portion of the meeting and then deliberate and discuss I don't want to close the public hearing until we're ready to take a vote on this particular case so board members thoughts thoughts I'm fine with it um in terms of the things that we have to consider um I would ask that um if there be any new Lighting on the outside of the building that it be in compliance

with dark sky recommendations so that friend insts since the light any bulbs be more of an Amber uh and that they not trespass the light doesn't trespass onto the neighbors one consideration sure sounds good wait good good point there Lesley G John Brad any further comments go ahead um I think it's very rare we actually come up to a special permit or a varians or anything like that where we're actually making the lot um more conforming and not con that's that's that's very refreshing and I'm glad to see it we've talked a lot about how uh the property creep happens on a lot of especially the small lots and in in the general residential where you know a porch turns into a screen porch which turns into a three season porch which becomes part of the house um this is actually happening in the front but to actually remove buildings to or building or you know an accessory um to make it more com more combined is yeah and conforming is is refreshing and I'm glad to see it thank you good point Jerry John any thoughts I mean I I agree exactly what Brad said you know Paul you asked all the right questions before for the clarifications I I think that the the building now looks like it's squared off fit it will logically fit on the property better uh to Brand Point uh very refreshing to find an application that actually makes it look more uniform than you know having all these outcroppings that there you know somebody's trying to convince us that

well a foot and a half is really okay no not so okay no I'm no I'm good I'm good excellent job folks thanks me too all good what Jerry said so on on these extensions of the non-conformities on the front and the side as I read that map they're not going to be any more encroaching not even a the Minimus is that right bill that's correct everything is reduced or the same okay so and reduce encroachment not reduced setb correct be a reduction in the amount of encroachment okay so if we were to phrase a special permit on this case we would want to indicate that that it's not encroaching anymore we're just extending the non-conformities on those two sides yeah I think that would be something we' record in the decision and we're going to record the actual um we're going to record the plan with the decision anyway so it's kind of memorialized there in two places okay and as far as Lesley's point of uh having dark lights I don't know if they exist but dark light light dark sky compliance yeah yeah the their contract I know about most of it is now at at Home Depot or or Lowe's or wherever you go they have it but but yeah if you and if you if the board wishes I'll just make that one of the conditions any new lighting will be dark sky compliant sure right on I was going to ask about the driveway you're not going to do any improvements to the driveway no that's all remaining as is yeah yeah so our deliberation needs to look at as I listed those six

impacts and I think the biggest one is to is to renovate the house and get it back on the tax rolls as a happy house yeah yeah and and so that's that's fiscal impact and to clean it up that's Community needs to get a cleaned up house neighborhood character same issue um and the others I don't think there are any issues I don't think there's an impact on the environment except maybe for the the dark light and traffic and parking and public services are still there not not not a change in those characteristics so if if that passes your criteria bill of consideration of those other issues then then I will entertain a motion I I think it's sufficient Mr chair okay who's going to volunteer the motion well I'll take a stab at it but I accidentally printed out the uh minutes of the last meeting instead of the uh oh here I can put it paperwork for this um so I make a motion to Grant the uh application for a um uh special permit uh to create an extension of the existing non-conforming um additions to the house at 20 wcot Street uh having found that there were no adverse effects uh that outweigh the benefits to the town good and you're going to put in your dark sky thing oh um yes and as

part of uh the requirements uh we require that any outdoor lighting um be dark sky compliant do I get a second second any further comment oh the silence is deafening so let's take a roll call John yes Lesley yes Jerry yes Brad yes and I'll be a yes as well so that's going to be for a special permit and now I like to put bill on the spot to give the timeline on what happens next so what we'll do is will draft up a decision that reflects the board's findings and the way it works is it usually takes we I can have it usually done within a week or so and um it'll um be sent and recorded with the clerk uh in town hall and we will email you a copy of that and once the clerk has that yeah there's a 20-day appeal period for you know if somebody um uh had a had an issue with it in this case don't I mean your neighbors are there so but we have that's the law and um at the conclusion of the appeal period um you will pick up the final um the the there's a certification of no appeal and then a copy of the decision now this is the part that people sometimes get give you a heads up ahead of time when you get that you got to make sure it gets to the registry of deeds and there's two reasons for that and the registry of deeds is in Cambridge um sometimes if you have a if

you have a lawyer that you work with their office can do it sometimes too but just plan on a trip to Cambridge go have lunch or something and but um anyway once the reason this has to be recorded like that is because then it becomes a permanent um part of the history of your home so if you ever do want to sell it if you had to rebuild God forbid or whatever the case is it's there it's official now you will get a receipt from them they'll give you a copy of your your recorded um decision that's what you'll need for the Building Commissioner because he will not issue permit without that so it's pretty it's it's it's basically the pain is just having to get it recorded but you know no big deal uh and and so that's that's the story so I'll I'll say when I record report it with the clerk I'll be in touch or Zoe will and we'll go from there but it should be within a week for sure and then do you let us know when the 20 day period is up or should we just be thinking about it no you what what'll happen I'll send you or one of us will send you uh the recorded decision with the clerk and it'll say you know you have a 20-day appeal period it's recorded and has a date on it say like Yeah March 1 so then you just you just keep track of it they won't call you at clerk's office because they got a million of these so you want to call you know 21 days you say Hey you know can is my can I come pick up my appeal um my letter no appeal and it's it's pretty easy great okay thank you fantastic sure okay thank you so much for the time we appreciate your time sure good luck to you thank you that closes the public hearing on this case and the next item on our agenda bill has

it written up zba updates and housekeeping right so and the first item is we need a vice chair and we need new members right bill that's right so go ahead right now um we uh since Paige has departed and is now a concer um we will need a a vice chair who will also should be we should probably call Vice chair clerk um but um and then we have to um you know uh we we have if Brad is interested in in moving to fulltime I I think did you talk to you talked to Brad already about this I believe is it Brad are is that yes right um and I um I filled out the application with the found oh okay you already did okay good yeah oh great okay right um so and then [Music] um ji is uh want to just kind of see and get an idea so she can um see if there's something she may be interested in as well so with that um I would say um have you been notified yet um if that they received everything for that and they're they'll usually schedule you for a uh select board meeting although typically you don't have to go if you're already on a board you know but yeah no I haven't received anything okay all right so I'll just leave it to the board to discuss everything and and it can make happen whatever you want

okay oh Paul quick quick question statement I guess um and maybe it's for bill so Brad's been an alternate I think am I right Brad yes yes that's okay so now you're going to become a full board member cor so after that so so Bill we're looking for two alternates now am I right correct two alternates okay okay okay and who needs to be a vice chair what what are the requirements for that well somebody who isn't me yeah that's the first that's the first qualification um not me either but just I just wanted to know who what's what's required nominate you Jerry why not you yeah I think Jerry would be a great choice I chair the school building committee I chair the senior center committee I'm I'm good uh in our in our case really um because the minutes we have them we have a a a a professional transcriber that do and that's you know just really it's basically pinch hitting for Paul and and if there if there if there's a reason for example that he had to recuse himself or something like this you know you'd fill in just like you know okay something always happens Paul's Paul's going to be a vacation guy more and more probably so he'll he'll uh you know if things like that filling in but it's not I don't think it's too much of a heavy lift but um you do get a a little more involved with stuff so I don't know yeah I've been doing a lot of emails back and forth with Bill on one topic or another trying to clean up the code and bylaws in certain areas well yeah yeah and everybody and everybody's been working on side projects with me pretty much so you know um you guys are

in the thick of it already you know whatever um you know most of the stuff that's going on so I I have a suggestion I sense a little hesitancy here is that we don't have to have a formal Vice chair but we could just have a round robin you're it this time and then the next person they get it the next time if you know if I can't make it or something I think we do have to I I'm yeah I I think you do have to have a a vice chair or a a clerk however you want to call it I believe look I can check the charter if you want real quick but um I promise you it's not too heavy of lift but you would have to chair if if Paul's Le let me see here yeah my shoes are small my feet are big so I'm I'm sorry Paul let's see here I would say I'm looking it up but I would plan I would have I would have a discussion now that that that that that there I've never heard of like a a not having a a a chair a a a vice chair or you know something that somebody can designated to fill in okay well I I just offered that as a thought yeah um you know maybe we could make it semi-formal that you know one of you is on deck for the next six months then we have another vote somebody else does it for another six months or something planning on going on vacation anytime soon Paul um I I've been doing a lot of stuff remote like Western New York you know cleaning up my son's house and stuff and then going down to Florida to visit our one and only grandchild so it's I might even drop in and where is it Tampa is that where you're hanging

out Jerry no Fort my is but I'm not going to give you the address now that I know you sorry well I'm going all the way down to to Homestead oh well we can't have the vice chair and the chairman in the same spot at the same time right yeah that's right so Bill and and Paul I mean you know I would certainly I would I would consider this I don't know that I'm qualified to to the level that that that that Paul is right now um if I had to take a meeting I would definitely need some guidance uh and I'd have to print up you know because you'll notice a lot of times I'll second on a motion yeah but I let the motion expert thatby Lesley make the motion that I'm very happy to and I agree with the motion and I I comprehend the motion but getting all the verbage right I kind of back off understand that well typically I have that in the staff report yeah and I'll be there for you and that you know yeah I mean I can I can do it I can I don't usually print up the staff report but I can have it I can have it in front of me I I don't have a problem with that I mean and honest to go it's not too much of a it's just having somebody that we could plug in in a pinch I don't and just just to reinforce that there's been a few times when Paige ran a meeting because I was out of town or you know something was wrong with me and bill passed the notes to me afterwards just to make sure that you know I was on board with how it was said and so on so there's there checks and balances here okay I've been involved with enough Town committees over the years and I still am as some of you already know good bad or IND different but I I have no problem with all of you I would I would take it

if if somebody wanted me to take it and if you don't that's fine too I second me too make you feel better Jerry it'll make you feel better Jerry I'll second the Motions from for everything that you do so that was a little too quick man that was a pounce yeah you didn't see everybody else just take one step back did you oh we we appreciate it Jerry I I I think it'll be okay um yep just bring us some palm trees or something nice back from the south sure I'll send some fresh fruit up yeah I'll send some sunshine we had about eight to 10 inches of sunshine today it fell all day beautiful but you guys had a good day it was warm up there today 4 rained and snowed today oh that's great sorry well last time I was out two weeks ago and I come back and there's two inches of ice on my deck literally two inches of solid ice yeah because it had had rained on top of snow and then went into the deep freeze it took me a week to chip that ice off did it really so let's let's move on to our next item and and this is one that sort of caught me by surprise Bill asked a question and I said you know he's right we don't have any formal rules and regulations and he he show he showed me what the planning board has it's a whole set of protocols as to how they do business and everything we've had some stabs at it in the past but we haven't got anything current and formal of how we can conduct a meeting and what happens and so on and so forth so uh I drafted something and it went into the abyss and I don't know if Bill's picked it up yet huh didn't

didn't I send you a Draft rules and regulations see what I mean it disappeared you did yeah about about a month ago oh my God are you sure I I I believe you but I it's not let's see well rules and regulations zoning board I don't have it it didn't make I'll have to resend it then but I can find it here on my oh the one for 26 the hearing application maybe edits the hearing application maybe that's it because that that was like the beginning of it or something I wanted to get some feedback and that's right it was that and then we were going to get into the full-blown rules and regulations um I've there's nothing on it um it was two documents and I only did one I didn't do the could you just resend a I apologize if it did I I don't this doesn't look like it it says can you clarify any items I flagged and and I remember you sending that and then looking at it and I don't see anything that you flagged oh oh wait yes I do yeah okay I I no I I dropped the ball I I'll um I'll put this on my list I somehow I missed it but um so it's that's not the formal that's not the formal rules and regulations that that was I think just how to conduct a meeting yeah it was a hearing application that's why I got mixed up okay yeah but the rules and regulations is something similar to what planning board has but I have not I have not written anything on that yet well I gave you the template remember I get I have the template that I I made with it so do you want me to do you want me to take this and review this and give you feedback on the um yeah do that because

then then that'll be the basis for okay rules and rs but should we have a chance to read it before the next meeting or you want to go over it during the meeting well there's nothing to read yet I know bu we we should look at it and edit it offline and then come back and say yeah this is good this is bad yeah yeah and it could be it can be you know something we just post and we just adopt it's not like a big deal like compared to like a zoning byot it's not like that but like what sorts of things does it uh yeah it's not like you can't show up in blue jeans what are you getting at you mean what's going to be and what is the purpose of planning board I mean zoning board rules ands yeah well it's like remember you remember how I shown you guys when you're looking for dark sky compliant when I showed you the rules and regulations they basically implement the zoning bylaws for your group so for example you can have you can have regulations that clarify how you're going to implement the zoning bylaws so let's say you had a policy that you decided I I'll give you easy one um every application shall have um a justification statement stating why this um application the board should consider this application okay so something like that now we wouldn't put that in the zoning bylaws that' be the bylaws would be like a phone like Manhattan phone book um so that kind of thing would be something we' put in there maybe Paul would say um let me think what's the good one um

let's just say for argument sake the the we decided all right we don't want uh resubmitted items like if let's say we had a continued hearing we must have any resubmitted item uh a week prior to the hearing date okay so we could say something like that that um you could say um now for example like with u um oh gez I did have it here you're right but yeah you get that yeah so what what I'm thinking is some of the things that would be nice to have in the rules and regulations is if the application is not complete we can either refuse the application or postpone it and that would be something in our rules and R so that where where I'm coming from what what Bill really tickled me on here is if we have a very grumpy applicant and we don't follow our rules explicitly he can take us to task and go through an appeal process and if we followed the rules as we had said they were because we've got them written down then he doesn't have anything to argue about because you know one one thing that gets me is you know we need a plot plan of of the property you know for any kind of variance or setback issues and if they don't Supply a civil engineered plot plan what goods the application because we we're supposed to trust the civil engineer not not the homeowner you know thing things like that so and there's a bunch of these as you think through as we go through these different applications there's there's a bunch of them that we just do by by

Nature that should be written down like your dark your dark sky stuff lesle um I didn't realize how many of these little things there are that we should consider pervious pavement for a driveway um you know the sky and lights and just and there's I think Bill was going to put together a list of those guys our last meeting I think that we talked about that about putting together a checklist yeah opposed yeah and that's part of this rules and regulations we shall consider all of these environmental factors for each application yep that works I mean gives us the guidance and it also gives us some protection against the grumpy petitioner who says well you you know you didn't do XYZ we could say well given the rules and regs you didn't Supply X so we had a postpone it all right good good so that's protection on both sides yeah so a checklist and rules and rs I think would just help frame what we do because we're going to still do what we do and have done but this just helps frame it it would probably be one and the same it probably be in the same in the end and and anything that's already you know we don't want to reinvent the wheel so anything already done like for example with the dark sky compliant we're not going to repeat whatever the that is in the by loss whatever So eventually just say it the board shall re you know utilize the planning board's guide for dark sky compliance or the zoning bylaws guy for Sky compliance or whatever so you you know um and the same thing would be um you know anything like that it's just it's just giving additional stuff and one one thing that that we do that's subtly different from the way the Mass

general laws are written is that when the applicant submits his request who checks it supposed to be the applicant Bill checks it for us Bill does all the leg work to make sure the application's complete and so it's up to Bill to take care of that to file it with the Town Clerk and so on and so forth to get the application started where in fact the state statutes say that is the applicant that does all that and so if we're going to codify in our rules and rs that it's up to Bill to make sure the application's complete we got to be careful that if the application is not complete who do we blame so having it written up in the application process that was the first document that I drafted would would say what we're supposed to be doing and I think to add to that too is there a checklist for I your bill I know you you probably mentally have your own checklist but is there a checklist for uh you know checking that documentation to make sure all the boxes ticked off before we accept an applicant and and move forward generally yeah the problem the the problem I've run into and I gotta make a judgment call with the zba is sometimes it's not practical to do to require a whole like a guy comes in for a special permit for um well I don't know can't think of a use right now but the coffee maker okay we're not going to ask him to do a traffic study in the town or stuff like this so I kind of tailor it to what typically what the board would need to respond to the requests being made so for example like tonight where there

there's a question of um you know of measurements and this yeah of course we need pop plans we need plans that show you know what's being proposed on the other hand if there was no no change being made to the building at all you know um and the use was going to be a um accountant you know or well that's a bad example now but but you know it kind of tailor it with common sense you know for um that sort of thing and the checklists that I have are exhausted so when I get a larger package in well when eventually if Avalon ever does come in I mean that's that's one where I need to go like I just go and I need to go write down everything that can be required and and and uh would be but but you know it's not you have to keep it in scale I guess is what I'm saying so you know the discretion our rules and regulations then need to be accurate but forgiving and that's going to take some word Smith to make that work yeah but once it's done I think everybody will like it y we can all take a look at it and a crack at it so we get just just just a second on this one we could actually take it and even put the rules and regs again against you know maybe we take one night after particular hearing and we take two you know cases over the last year and put them against the rules and reg say that they fit would these rules and regs have would this checklist have worked with that but you know if we had it in place or would it have helped or would it have highlighted something I I don't know but

put it against some real cases yeah one thing I would definitely add would be like what now with the the a the ruling from the AG that we've been using which makes it a lot easier with single family homes but we should put that in our EGS this is what we do we should probably put that um I'm trying to think of a diff and if we had any really difficult one that came to mind just now was I don't know if you remember the uh uh corner of Acton Street where that business property had all the dump trucks being stored and they wanted to put a fence on and one comment that I made during that was okay I'm closing the public comment period or however I phrased it and somebody in the audience that was one of those virtual ones got really testy with me because I was closing a public hearing and I was closing the public comments at least I thought that's what I was doing right but even if I did close the public hearing we should be allowed to deliberate after the closure of the public hearing and issue our decision within so many days of closing the hearing yes the law it's law there's right it's very so be able to state that in English not in uh mgl Gog would be very useful to make sure that we can explain to somebody why we're doing what we're doing that's that's the kind of stuff that's that's there yeah you know we don't have anything right now we just rely on mgl to say that's what we're doing so I I think you know this is a work in progress bill and I will do some work on it pass it by you guys and if

you agree then then it's it's uh the way we're going to try to you know do what we're doing but do it according to the book good I think it'll be helpful um since we are not a um an enforcement agent and Rick is um I would I don't know if there's any mechanism for us to know what Rick's findings are like when does he go and inspect um has everything been done all the eyes dotted and the teas crossed um guess some I wonder about that sometimes yeah yeah that's a good and you know a lot of people ask that too when they we have a complaint uh form now like for you know we get a lot of complaints every day for something one thing or the other um and people ask you know well okay I send in a complaint about you know this particular thing I'd never heard back and sometimesi Ricks out I don't I don't know all stuff he does if I don't send him like I sent him out to somebody I I don't think it's any does it any good for me to say who but I I I sent him out this morning on um a property where I had a report of something that wasn't supposed to be going on and typically it's a question of if it's a complaint and the complaint's taken care of just just let it line if it's a zoning non-compliant issue like for example I see on um tomorrow one of the things I have a guy that owes the town some funds for trees um now tomorrow it's on my

calendar I I can see it here so something like that um we put on a calendar reminder and if it hasn't come in we just say hey you know to be in compliance with your special permit we need money for the tree or whatever the case may be um so it can vary but but for like the stuff that we do like if it's you you know within two years you're going to do this or whatever I that just goes on on our calendar but if it's a if it's a response to a complaint like somebody's um I don't know skinning a goat in their front yard or something like that um you know um that's something that that Rick handles and I may not even know about it or something so but if there's something specific like if the board said hey um we wanted to make sure that you know there was a compliance uh at this location uh you know that's something one of us will do and if it's like a go make sure it's there you know that's easy if we haven't done it somebody go out and do it and if it's to follow up on Lesley's question though we've we've made some decisions some special permit application or or approvals and so on how do we know that those special permits have been honored well it depends what the what the honor is you know well let me give you an example okay remember the the lawnmower repair shop yeah he was supposed to put up a fence right I used him to repair my lawnmower did you this was a year after he got the special permit and he said oh yeah I got to put up a fence and he hasn't put up the fence yet when is he supposed to have that fence up that's supposed to be up and that was but the reason that everything got suspended on that was when we went into the um homebased businesses but but typically though

that's a perfect example so when when if um but that's a good example so what would have happened on that now or what we've done if we would say whatever it was like within six months or whatever I just have a reminder or OMS has a reminder now a system on the calendar so it says okay 24 Maple Street is the fence up like I said i' I've got one I know I have one tomorrow that a guy owes us a funds I don't know if he paid or not but it just they'll check it up um could something slip through the cracks now probably but but it's much better than it was and in general we're on it um the the the homebased businesses are going to be there's going to be a you know kind of a carryover for that because way we set it up but all in all that's worked out you had a but but your comment on on homebased business taking precedence on that lawn thing he still has to put up a fence because it was screening junk in his driveway the question yeah but the the question is the the question with that one is I I can check with Town Council make sure right but I think Rick's point was that okay the bylaws in now make all the special permits for home businesses um that what you say it trumps them and the idea is that everybody's considered a type B wait wait which was a or b which was the one you don't need the permit for a uh unless there's there's complaints about it and that's kind of where we started because we had this we had we also had a problem with uh other um like chasing down a permit from let's say there's a special permit that was done 5 years years

ago and now it's it's it's expired but they don't need a permit anymore because of the bylaw change what do we ever know but but as we get our feet under us yeah all that will be but that's generally how that's done lesie to answer your question so for to to make Ure you're you're asking about compliance with a special permit more than a complaint yeah that's how it's done like for example a couple months ago that person on Great Road that wanted to convert his uh yeah forch and and we said well you have to have dark sky compliant lighting well how do we know if he ever did that oh Rick checks that when he does a building sign off that's that if it's like a building inspector stuff where he's going to be out there yeah there's a special permit required Rick has the permit with him so he checks it where permit so that that kind of stuff's pretty easy if with that so when Rick if if it require like these guys tonight like these guys tonight the way it's supposed to work is they're going to go pull a permit from Rick after the their um appeal period is up the permit's going to say uh dark sky compliant lighting and um that was the only thing we had right the only yeah but let's say there was something else that had to be done when Rick goes out for the building permit he's he's he's going to know okay there has to be a dark sky compliant lighting and when he goes to do his final inspections he's going to look he's say it's not dark sky compliant or it's not a pervious driveway or it's not a you know whatever yeah that's the way it's supposed to work it's it's we're getting better and better with that but but it's pretty pretty good not but there's I'm sure we've

missed well good I I think we've we've dealt with that in our rules and rs the last item here is residential zoning group update Brad do you have anything to share with us yeah let's see um but the only thing that has changed is I've been working on filling out the you know going through the maps and checking off the boxes there's a spread sheet now that I've been uh I've been filling in um and I honestly I haven't had a lot of time in the last month or two but um I have spent about four or five hours on it which has gotten me through uh another map I think I've got about four more maps to go for the S2 and um they don't look like they're a very dense S2 population of houses so I should probably be able to get through that one fairly fast and then once I get through the S2 I'll make sure that uh the spreadsheet actually works and I'll take it over to Zoe or whoever Julie or whoever it is is going to be using it and give it a test run and see if it all works yeah because right now I don't know if it makes sense to go over there with spend their time to have them go through and do you know 25 properties to see if they work yeah yeah right now right now because as Julia's moved departments and stuff we're still hiring so we're a little bit short staff we we we lost our health agent and our uh conservation agent we're trying to hire right now so it's a little bit tough for us now so a little you know the more time on that one the better for us if if Brad's working and then we'll we'll try to get it and if we have to you know if he if Brad thinks ultimately we need technical assistance we can apply for that too so but we'll see but sound I think Brad's system's been pretty cool the way it is right now if we can figure out how to get it in integrated in

GIS excellent this has been good guys Tak a moment to just ref do things and and hopefully we didn't scare that lady away because we do need extra bodies yeah I met with her for about a half hour the other day she's pretty she seemed pretty good and she very famili question so there was a rumor that remote meetings are going out the window next month is that true or not yeah that's a great question um I said Paul said Paul you got that our vice chair is gonna be very interested in that I think yeah um every that's why I accept I accepted the position because I knew it was gonna go away and said geez I'd like to do it guys but I I I can't I'm down here I'm sorry thanks joh they um yeah you're right it expires at the end of March um and in fact I'm going to have to this happened two years ago too before they extended it and uh I'm gonna have to make it um a hybrid meeting in the next one if I don't hear it and we'll but typically they pop through at the last minute now the difference this this session is that everybody's had enough of this two-year stuff and he said come on let's get a to Let's Get It permanent so there's legislation has been filed to make it permanent so we'll see how that goes it's it's kind of stupid at this point to do it another two years you everybody likes it everybody likes the option and there's no you know but yeah I'm I'm optimistic that it will get done but I've been optimistic about things that didn't get done

but don't tell Elon if we're meeting remotely just come in yeah I one of one of the problems with you know elim in the remote I mean right now we're looking for two new members if the remote ends now you're going to look for three new members because you know seven months a year I'm here yeah I can't I can't belong so I have to leave of course of course right so and and and there are people in the school building committee you know that's a 21 member committee if this goes away we're gonna you know some people are dialing in from they're driving home or their vacation they're still participating all of a sudden we're going to get things shrink way down I I just think too many people are too used to this you can have hybrid meetings we do with the senior center committee it's hybrid you want to go to Town Hall you can go you want to dial in you can dial in your preference that can work yeah I well everybody and and and you know everybody has been howling about this for last year in in the planning circles because the guy like I personally like with the the reason I like it with the zoning board otherwise I don't care about my other boards as much if if I'm there anyway but like Mondays we get out the town hall closes at 4: and I'd sit there until 7 you know and I would um well I can only play so much Scrabble right and and but um you know it's so I like it from that standpoint I can do it from home you know I'm or my remember in the old days I used to be confined to my basement but now at Le I'm up in you know wow was keeps that rocking down with your goofy Pals on this internet turn that

off but um yeah I I I think it will because everybody really it's and and the other thing is going from the other standpoint it increases the public participation and and and you know people that can't get there it it's like come on I mean why would you not we we've been limited knock on wood to few Zoom bombs but uh other than that everything's been good well and the other thing too is it's not like you know like you know lesy brought up the the the fact with what's happening with the federal government and and people they getting I know a few people make over 200,000 a year and they work about an hour a day you know if they double our salary we still make zero so I mean this is all volunteer I understand so you're going to tell a volunteer well yeah I know it's icy out tonight but you got a meeting you going to drive the town hall I'm sorry I don't think I want to belong to that anymore that's it I I I no no argument I I think it's going to extend I or become permanent just pass it permanent you know why come on yep yep agreed agre Jerry if you quit you're not able to collect so just so you know oh man oh but will I get Severance I gu Severance favor you'll get you'll get you know you get a good Severance for your yeah I'll I'll check the mail every day based on your salary for this yeah yeah thank you very much oh the support is just wonderful all right yeah this this has been a good meeting guys yeah so to formally close the meeting do we want to do a motion kind of thing so moved second second third fourth all right so until next time when is next time Bill you know when next time is uh yeah it is I don't know if we have anything yet but

but we probably um will'll be scheduled oh wait a minute it is March 24th 2 and I know because I have a conflict uh that's not a big conflict but I March 24th and is Poss possible um Zoe may start the meeting but we'll we we'll it'll be taken care of one way or the other or Steve okay good don't you want to know what the conflict is course us go ahead so so where are you going I'm not going anywhere no it's a aicp we're doing the aicp course that is uh from six to starts at 6 and ends like at 6:30 or something so I'm okay so what's aicp American Institute of certified planners wow W so I'm the professional development officer for Massachusetts now very good and so I gotta get these little little brats up to uh speed so on the 24th I won't be able to make it ah well luckily we have a co-chair vice chair guys you guys knew all this sandbag earlier tonight oh man oh just think about the F pay that you get I know it I know it yeah this is gonna be great oh this is wonderful I have uh I have family visiting and that evening I got to get them to the airport well you can do it remot you can do it from your car Uber yeah doing Uber you can sit in the back seat yeah

anyhow so I'm sorry the 24th I'm booked that evening well two things then one so if Bill can't be here you can't be here um do we want to push it to a to a different night well we don't have anything I think Bill indicated I don't think we do at the moment I I think that might be something worth considering let me uh see how the when I get in next week or so and see how that shakes out we might might might be worth doing we we haven't contined anything so we have the freedom to do it okay yeah we shouldn't have to jump through hoops I mean if there's nothing urgent we either postpone or we change the night no I don't look for night meetings that you're very out spoken about this isue we already do we already have any applications no no um no I don't so it'd be it'd be probably a tough I don't think so but but remember I was out so I I haven't even caught up from everything I was out for uh the week um I'll know I don't think so though but there could be so one last question for you Bill yeah you would ask me for some questions to send to the attorney town councel and one of them was and we use the local daily or monthly uh local weekly newspaper as our advertising media yeah and I see other towns doing it mayor does it on occasion but she she was very adamant that we can't do it because it reaches every house in town right I'm meeting with her tomorrow so um I will I I haven't sent the I it's sitting there on my in her list I have a list for her and we'll try again and ask her about using the action Unlimited

I I don't understand I don't know because that that reaches I would say uh 30 times as many people as a newspaper subscription does in town yeah yeah no car well yeah I I I mean I I think the selectboard even uses it I'm not I'm not sure yes I've seen select board I've seen uh uh your who who's the chief hro in your department there Steve no above Steve that's it Wilson is it oh Greg Wilson he's the TA Town Administrator yeah yeah he's used it Aton uses it St boxboro uses it yeah affordable housing uses it to advertise for like the lotteries and and the rent reduction stuff so it's I agree I mean I I agree we need that and we and we need the permanent um meetings the remotes but I'm trying yeah okay oh I I I have one separate question that's not really relevant it just sort of came up when uh John mentioned affordable housing yeah um I did notice that on Main Street the McDonald has posted what affordable housing prices are for a two-bedroom one bath in mayard is $2,300 a month for rent yeah it's crazy not too affordable right well we're working on on this well all right I got that's the going R is it you want good news about that I'll give you good news about that John corvell so listen to this you're you're your pal on the affordable housing trust than I uh Mr

Cranshaw we have we we drafted a um for bonus units where if you've already you have to meet your 10% affordable with a new project correct but listen to this so we had we were saying before um you can have bonus units as long as you go uh and add one for one with affordable up to a certain point so now we're saying because that was at 80% but we're saying I want 60 right right right so credit for two yeah that is um he got that from our meeting Mee yeah how about that see you need results they come in yeah so interesting that's what I got we're trying I mean government works slow I'm old you're from the 19 00s bill I wonder what his non-aff units are going for market rate probably so whatever the market rate is wow can you I mean it it's it's unbelievable and I don't know how he's going to put three or four in the old fire station I don't know how he's going to do that but uh no that should work I think um I don't know I haven't gotten plans though um so um I yeah I hope so um but uh you know I I need those affordable units anyway for other reasons as you know so another year another year Safe Harbor let's do it I want to get

permanent we're we're I I'm at 9.8 like 9.8 I literally must be killing you bill this I am literally trying to buy down with you with your money a I want to get one stinking unit and then we're 10% one unit yeah so I have an I have an apartment in my house and I'm charging about half the rent that Brad mentioned John let's get it let's get it get it let's get it you get your boys over there in the morning we're at 10% so so Brad what your number 2300 yes 2300 a month yeah 2300 a month is the for the two-bedroom one bath bedom I I got a two bedroom for 13 geez well you're making all the rest of us landlords look bad yeah does it have Plumbing Paul yes it does hey why couldn't we why couldn't we do that I think it's got to be like a there's got to be like four before we can claim one isn't it or because he's blow the threshold of how many he has within his property no but if he if he stay if Paul wanted to keep it at like if he's at 80% of market rate and we got him to sign just because he wants to help the town if we got him to sign a like a 25 year commitment he's going to stay at 80% for Home Free the can you go to uh Section 8 and and that would work I don't know and then the state if you go Section Eight then then prob you'll get a big but the problem with going section eight is I can't control who moves in right correct someone else controls who gets the spot

yeah yeah so let's let's make you affordable and then we'll put you you'd be listed for free do you have anybody in there now oh yeah yeah let's get him out and get them on get them on not out no we get them out for day so they're out and then we get them back in and then they could all right that's all I got guys all right all right have a good night everybody was good meeting thanks than guys bye bye bye I don't know how to turn this off now I was try