Government Relations, Ethics, and Transparency Committee - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon, members. Will the government relations ethics and transparency committee meeting of 09/02/2025 please come to order. It is 01:41PM, and I apologize for the delay. Again, we were having some technical difficulties, which I hope is sorted. If not, it'll be sorted soon. I'm your chair, Nohelani U'uhajans. Members in accordance with the Sunshine Law, please identify by name who, if anyone is in the room vehicle or workspace with you today. Minors do not need to be identified. Let's begin with committee vice chair, Tamara Pautin. Aloha. Good afternoon.

Aloha. Streaming live and direct from my kitchen table in Napili. The Westmont residency area office is closed due to excessive construction on the restrooms to get ready for the Maui adult day care center folks. I have with me one adult male named George Vieira. Sorry if you can hear him talking. He is quite loud as you, may have noticed this weekend.

Thank you, member Palton Aloha, George. Good to see you on Saturday because that's where everybody see each other is at Costco. So let's also continue with council member Cook. Aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha, chair. Good afternoon. There's currently no testifiers in the KA office. I'm looking forward to your meeting. Thank you.

Thanks. Councilmember Gabe Johnson, aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha, chair. Councilmembers, committee members, there's no testifiers at the Lanai District Office. I'm alone in my workspace here, and I'm ready to work. Mahalo.

Thank you. Councilmember Tasha Kama, aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha chair and good afternoon. I am alone in my workspace and I'm ready to work. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Council chair Alice Lee, aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha,

Councilmember Rollins Fernandez, aloha, good afternoon.

I'm at my private residence, currently alone, but will be joined by, my two, kids and my husband, Makena Fernandez, within the hour. Thank you. Perfect. Councilmember Shane Sanansi, aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha, chair. Happy to join from my home office. I'm here by myself, and there's no testifiers in honor.

Thank you very much. And council member Yukilei Sugimura, aloha and good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Looking forward to a productive meeting. Thank you for taking this up, by the way. I wanna just express congratulations to Dwight Burns who's in the audience, and

he just retired. Yeah. Yay. I know. We can ask him to volunteer on more boards because later I'll explain the vacancies. Do we did our technical difficulties get sorted? Okay. Great. I can read faster than I was now. Okay. From corporation counsel, we have with us Thomas Colby, deputy corporation counsel. Later, we'll have Yukari Murakami, Corporation Counsel from office of the mayor for our next item. For our second item, we have Jody Yoshida, Boards and Commissions Liaison, and Risa Tamho, Boards and Commissions Liaison. For this first item, we have representing the cost of government commission. We have Vice Chair Cameron Dexter.

We also have chair Jennifer Sullivan and Dwight Burns, who's a commissioner on, the independent nomination boards. Our committee staff include Maria Leon, committee secretary, Casey Apo Takayama, senior legislative analyst, Clarissa McDonald, legislative analyst, Peter Hanano, legislative attorney, and Lady Nein, counsel services assistance clerk. Do we have anybody wishing to testify?

No, chair. There is nobody signed up

to testify. Okay. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. If we do have any, members of the public wishing to testify, I will then read all of the things I need to say for testimony,

but let's move on then.

And we have before us, the costs of government. I have asked the costs of government to provide us with a status update on its study and recommendations for boards and commissions as the council urge via resolution 24 dash one six eight adopted on 10/08/2024. We have with us cost of government vice chair Cameron Dexter and independent nomination board chair, excuse me, Jennifer Sullivan. If there are no objections, members, I would like to designate them as resource persons under rule 18A of rules of the council. Thank you.

No objection.

And to make it obvious, because of their special expertise on this matter, at this time, I'm going to request presentation as we were working on from you, mister Dexter.

Perfect.

Thank you everybody for inviting us to as some of you can may know me, I'm terrible with microphones. So if you can't hear me, please let me know. But in any case, I'm here to present our report from the Costa Government Commission. Did the slide transition? Oh, there we go. It's a little delayed. So my name's Cameron Dexter. I'm the vice chair of the Costa Government Commission. Chair Evan Dust was not able to join you folks today. He he is on business.

So unfortunately for all of you, you're stuck with me. But a little bit about me. I have my masters of public administrations and master of criminal justice. I studied at the University of Colorado School of Public Affairs. In my free time, I work on the Costa Government Commission, and by trade I'm a social worker for the state of Hawaii judiciary.

So this is our process in terms of developing our study. So first off, we reviewed our predecessor's study regarding boards and commissions back from 2010 and twenty eleven. Eleven. We then developed our own study scope, identified low hanging fruit. We'll get into what we mean by that shortly.

We developed surveys, analyzed some of these surveys, and now we're in the process of conducting follow-up interviews with directors and boards of commission chairs. And then we're also in the process of reviewing recruitment, nomination, confirmation process. And hopefully by then all of this we'll have a productive actionable report for all of you to utilize. So in terms of low hanging fruit we've wanted to address the boards and commissions that would take the least effort to implement change. So from the lowest, we've determined those created by county code would be easier to change versus those established by charter.

And then further after that is by Hawaii revised statutes. So we found that there's 17 boards and commissions created by county code, 15 established by the county charter, and four established and authorized by the Hawaii revised statutes. So among the low hanging fruit, under the Department of Human Concerns is Animal Control Board, Commission on Children and Youth, Council on Aging, Commission on Persons with Disabilities, Commission on Healing Solutions for the Homeless. Planning commission, we're examining the cultural resources commission, the urban design review board, the HANA advisory committee to planning commission. From the Department of Agriculture, the Akula Agricultural Park Committee.

From the Department of Management, the Affirmative Action Advisory Council, the Maui Redevelopment Agency, and from the Office of the Mayor, the Conservation Planning Committee. From finance, we're looking at the real property tax review board and from parks and recreation, the arborist committee. The only thing that is not a low hanging fruit is the independent nomination board. In our preliminary findings, we're finding that there may be an issue with recruitment, nomination, and confirmation process. So our approach is two pronged.

So first we've sent out surveys to department staff who work with boards and commissions, and also to the various chairs of all the boards and commissions we're examining. We also interviews with Department of Human Concerns staff. And these are just some of the trends that we've noticed. First is the problem is getting volunteers. So one thing that came out from the surveys is most of the respondents are saying it's taking about six to twelve months to get a replacement or a vacancy filled.

Based off of what we've discussed, the process of nomination confirmation appears to be broken. So basically what perspective applicants are finding is the process to be potentially hostile or there's a lot to be in the public eye through the whole confirmation process. So with that being said, some people are a little bit leery about being open to public scrutiny, especially living in a small community such as ours. But that's just some of the things that we found so far. And sometimes we found, at least in one instance, there's a misunderstanding of Oh, before we get to that, we found that board and commission members wanna make meaningful contributions.

So it's not for lack of enthusiasm. We have plenty of well, I wouldn't say plenty, but we have the people who are serving actually wanna make a difference and make a change in our community or help improve things. But sometimes there's a misunderstanding of roles and responsibilities. So in one instance we found with one board and commission, they thought they didn't understand they did not seem to understand they are an advisory body versus one that may exercise, quasi judicial authority or any other degree of authority. But another thing that we found is when establishing a board and commission, the one thing that seems to be indicated in our study is any Boarding Commission will be a failure if it doesn't have the mayor's office administration their support.

That's a big part. So it takes a team to get it all together across the finish line. So a big part of this is the recruitment nomination confirmation process. So along reducing the number of boards and commissions is not a complete solution. We're going to look at the process.

The confirmation process is perceived as hostile and toxic. And it may need some considerable revision. Some of the solutions that we've discussed is changing how we nominate people, and how many seats that we have. So standardizing each board of commission to about nine members, four appointed by the mayor with no confirmation by council, then four appointed by council majority, one appointed by a constituent panel, maybe a replacement of the independent nomination board. So where we're at next is we're still in the midst of completing interviews.

So what we're hoping to do is provide a drafter part in two parts. The first part is the recruitment nomination and confirmation process. Then after that we then want to examine consolidation elimination and provide recommendations to eliminate merger, reduce the amount of boards and commissions that we have. So our rationale behind this is basically if the recruitment and nomination process is broken or is having difficulties, then if we fix that process then I well the chairs are then filled. So then we have to be naturally asked the following question would be we having this discussion if we could fill all the chairs.

But it doesn't forego that, hey, maybe we may make that recommendation that some have to go. But again, we're still in the midst of our studies, so there's a lot of things that we still need to work on. After that, we'll collect public input on our recommendations and then finally a report to the mayor and county council and county auditor. Without further ado, if anybody has any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them. I am limited only by the fact that I've been authorized to share with you today by the Costa Government Commission where we're at right now, so some things I may not be able to answer.

But if you guys wanna send us correspondence, I'm more than happy to have that passed along to our technical writer. Thank

you very much. Before we get into discussion, though, I do need to make sure, and double check if we have anybody willing to testify for this item for grade five dash two. Chair, there's currently no one signed up to testify. Thank you very much. Then without objection, I will now close, public testimony.

Thank you. As a reminder, written testimony will continue to be accepted. Members, if you have any questions, for vice chair Dexter, please ask him. And if he's not ready to answer the question yet as he's, providing us a status update, member Palton has been beating everybody to the punch and creating stuff, which is great, which is why I wanted to have a discussion. So if we can't if you can't answer our questions, we will absolutely send you a letter. Is this, presentation up on Granicus, the one we just saw? It will be. It will be. Okay. Just FYI, that presentation will be uploaded shortly. That's what we were having technical difficulties with. I'm gonna begin with, committee vice chair Paulton. Saw you have your hand up, so please ask your questions. Thank you.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, mister Dexter. As miss Houjin said, I feel a little under the gun in that, we have two year terms and, you know, and then it's maybe or maybe not. But, one thing I was looking at and I I was moving forward with was, the ammo control board and what you said about misunderstanding. Like, the first time I was appointing or confirming folks to the animal control board, I'm, like, asking them if they like cats and stuff.

And then I found out all they really do is dangerous dogs appeals. So one of the initiatives that I was taking up was trying to appropriately name it because it is, I believe, an HRS board, but it doesn't deal with all animals. And sometimes they get, like, you know, feral chickens, feral cats referred to them. But, really, all they do is dangerous dog appeals. And I think it's a five member board, and I I think that's sufficient.

So I just was wondering if you guys were discussing other things that can be done such as that. And, is it okay to keep the smaller boards smaller? Like, I I understand, like, council of aging or something is 15, but are you talking about moving a five member board up to nine members?

Thank you for that question. So what we're discussing in terms restricting or reducing the size of boards and commissions, at least to my understanding of our discussion, is basically to reduce it from a larger size to a smaller size, not necessarily increase the amount of seats. But that would be something I think I would have to talk to the rest of the commissioners about in terms of what our intent would be with a smaller board or commission.

Okay. And then, like, I did float the idea with the director about making the aging and commission on disability together, but she said that these particular groups did not want that. Have you folks considered combining any of the other boards?

Yes. So in particular, at least in our interviews that came up between the Commission on Youth and Persons with or no, aging and persons with disabilities. When we talked about merging particular boards and commissions that may have considerable overlap, one of the issues that came up was that. To then sort of meeting going on much further because they have to do address more items. But from what we were told, that's one of the biggest concerns about potentially merging some of these boards and commissions together.

Okay. One last question, and then I'll share the thing. I don't want to be a question hog. But the shoot. Talked too much. I forgot what it was. I think, you know, when, you were referring to the boards that thought they could make changes versus being advisory. Was that, the two that we did away with and the Hana Hana advisory count committee as well as South Maui and Paiya Haiku advisory committees, were those the ones, or was that even the planning commission?

It was none of those. Both? Yeah. It was

In mine? I believe it was.

The particular border commission that was referenced was Healing Solutions for the Homeless Homelessness. Oh, okay. All right. Thank you

so much for, the work you're doing. I'll yield to my colleagues so that everybody gets a fair shot.

Thank you, Vice Chair Palton, Committee Vice Chair Palton. Is there any other questions? I have a few, but I'll wait if there's any other members with questions. Member Senensi.

Thank you, Chair. My we're to going

if we were going to

do reduce the size or number of that. Boards and commissions, we wanted to look at those that we can effectuate the easiest change. So that includes those established by county code. After that, it would be things that we could modify by charter, which, of course, is more difficult. Then after that, the highest hanging fruit, so to speak, is those boards of commissions that are permissible or mandated by the Hawaii revised statutes.

Okay. Nothing to do with securing quorum or anything like that? No. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you members and NC members. Does anybody else have any questions? Okay. I'll ask my few questions. First of all, thank you so much for your presentation and thank you for being here. When do you think the study, will be complete?

That's a good question. I'm not in a position where I can give a definitive date, but we're working to speed things up as best we can, as far as I know.

Okay. Considering member Palton acknowledged that, you know, we only have two years here. Are you gonna be presenting to us in this next year, or are you guys maybe gonna present to this future council of twenty twenty seven?

That's a good question. I do not know.

Okay. Okay. You mentioned the process being broken. The confirmation process is tough. I think you said hostile and toxic. Are you referencing, the nomination process or the public scrutiny after decision making if they're a quasi judicial body?

Based off of what I was told from the interviews and the surveys, as far as my memory serves, it references both sides of it.

Okay. Okay. We cannot control, you know, public scrutiny, but we can control what we do in these chambers and obviously help work well with administration. Do you folks have any advice, or do we need to write this in a letter and this is something you can continue to study on how we can make the process a bit more friendly and conducive to people wanting to participate?

So we'll have to proceed with our study. I don't have enough information to make any recommendations as of today. But, specifically, that's what we wanna examine next and see how we can make improvements to the process.

Okay. We won't send you that in writing if you guys are already looking it up. And then as far as administration support, I know we have admin in here, but previously, we would seat people in these seats, and then we would get emails from them saying they haven't received a packet or they don't know what they're what they're supposed to do. How can we alleviate prevent that problem, in you talking to your people? How long does it typically take them to get a packet and get sorted so they can part participate in these commissions and boards?

Our particular board or commission?

Yours, Shore, or anybody else's that you guys have been working with. Because I got, like, five emails at once one time.

Okay. So you're asking how, basically, we can improve the whole process of getting administrative support? Is that what you're asking?

Well, I guess we could ask them how they could help doing that. But for you folks, there's, there's a break after they're confirmed by counsel, and it's basically out of our hands, and then it goes to admin. Mhmm. And we don't know what happens in that time. Mhmm. And, apparently, some commissioners don't either. Mhmm. There's a packet to fill out. There's an ethics packet to fill out as well. We've received a few emails, and we've heard people testify that sometimes they don't even get that packet. Do you know how often that occurs and how we can prevent that break from happening?

I'm not in a position to say. I don't know at this point. We'll I'll have to go back to, the Costa Government Commission for further examination of those issues.

Okay. Thank you very much. Members, member Rollins Fernandez. Mahalo, chair. Aloha, mister Dexter. Mahalo for your progress report.

Thank you.

I I think I just have one question for now, until your, the commission's recommendations are transmitted. And maybe you said it. So the low hanging fruit, I guess okay. So since my time being on the council, I think we established one, the Healing Solutions Commission, and then we kind of like adjusted a different one, and that was the conservation planning committee. And that was created before we got to the before I got to the council.

And then it was just like a committee of the directors. So we discussed changing that. And and that committee has, like, met, like, maybe three times in six years or never? I thought they met, like, a couple times. Yeah.

Anyway, regardless, for those two, when we established it, we well, most of those on the council established it so that it was set up so that the mayor would appoint, the minority and the council would appoint the majority without confirmation. It wasn't a nomination confirmation process. It was just a point, as you stated, that could possibly be one of the recommendations from this report. And I like that process. Anyway, that's why we did it.

But with the independent nomination board now formed, all nominations go through, the nomination board, I believe, even councils. So that that's kind of, like, held up, created created more of an obstacle for for all the boards and commissions. And that's that would be a charter amendment. So some some of the ideas that were presented as low hanging fruit are not, like, necessarily gonna be low because they potentially come with, you know, a charter amendment such as this, which I'm not opposed to. I I think if that's the way we're gonna fix it and we have to fix it, you know, I I'm I'm supportive of doing whatever it takes to to fix it.

But when you're discuss when the commission was discussing this idea of mayor nominating or sorry, mayor's office appointing counsel appointing and potentially a third party appointing one, that it would come with a charter amendment, is higher hanging fruit. Go ahead if you have any comments.

That is correct. It would require a charter amendment, but I leave that to the other legal minds. I'm not a lawyer. But yeah, that's the only part of our study that would require more substantial effort to actually implement a change. That is correct.

Okay. So that was not described as a low hanging fruit then in your presentation? No. Okay. The low hanging fruit was just potentially renaming, combining, eliminating, or reducing the number of memberships?

Yes. Those boards and commissions that are established through county ordinance?

Yeah. Yes. County code. Okay. That's that's my only discussion. Mahalo, chair. Mahalo, mister Dexter.

Thank you, member Rollins Fernandez. Members, any other questions? Okay. Oh, member Senancy, go ahead.

Were we, did we take testimony already, sir?

We didn't have anybody signed up.

Oh, okay. I just I just had some comments, to your to your comments about toxic, people feeling. And then I I mean there are some working commissions that are more important or very you know like the planning commission. And so when it comes to those commission I think in the past and I don't know if, I mean, I just want to preface that with, in the past practice, those commissions have been boarded with either realtors, developers, and consultants. And so sometimes when we're trying to to work with these we want to have maybe more of female representation.

We want to have more. Environmental representation and it particularly represent representation from each of our. Communities we have not seen that in past practices so I think I'm I'm I'm saddened to hear that some of the. The applicants feel that sometimes it's toxic but and I get it that we have an appeals process or where you can go and get get a ruling from the ethics. If you're if you know if there's some conflict of interest but in the past my my concerns when when board of filling that commission with developers construction workers and consultants sometimes their personal businesses become they you know because you you have a seat on this.

This commission. Know their their personal businesses can can also, you know, take a get a huge boost. So I think I just wanted to preface those comments with with past practice chair. Thank you.

Thank you, members and Nancy. I I don't disagree. The one thing I will add, though, is that, you know, when we have to, as council members, go and solicit people to participate in these boards and con commissions, I don't know the response you folks get. But for me, majority is like, oh, no way. I would never I'd never put myself out there like that. Even if they have no relation to the construction industry or realty or have anything to do with that, a lot of people, at least the ones that that I spoke to, you know, are just like, nah. No thanks. But thanks, though. We watch you guys, but that's all the participation people want to do. So and I think that's difficult for a lot of our local, community members.

You know, most conversations happen around happen around the dinner table. I think that's where most people feel comfortable having some conversation. And so to have it in public is already hard for for most people to begin with. And then, and this council, I will say, we have done a pretty good job at being as as nice as possible. Of course, we we have tough questions sometimes, but I know we try. But I think it's worth noting that, some people feel, not just us, but just the I think how much scrutiny is around some of the boards and commissions. It's it's difficult, and I acknowledge that as well. But I appreciate your comments, member Sanancy. Thank you for sharing. Member Palton, did you have yeah.

Of course.

Thank you, chair. Maybe maybe a a low hanging fruit to start start off with.

Yeah. We go past coffee before we start questioning people. Member Palton? Yeah. You have any, other comments you wanna add?

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't wanna, be a hog, but seeing, that nobody thinks I'm hogging, I guess.

Please go ahead.

To, make mention of, like, some things that I wouldn't mind for the cost of government commission to consider. Like, I guess to to member Senancy's point, you know, there are some, I guess I don't know if you call it high high stress or controversial type of commissions where they do have a significant say on the outcomes of things like real property tax review, planning commission, even cultural resources commission or urban design and review board to some extent. And then there's other boards and commissions where, you know, maybe for a long time, we haven't really seen any output. And in that way, I think that's why we punted to the cost of government commission in some way, like, is the return on investment? Like, we're putting in how many staff hours, how many volunteer hours, getting the location, hosting the agendas, and what is the output of the committee.

And I I don't like to think of everything as a return on investment, but, like, what is the purpose of us going through all this work to put it on if nothing is being, outputted by it? And then, also the the quorum issues, I've I've gotten people like, even with us putting people on the CRC, I'm still getting folks in Lahaina, complaining about the lack of meetings of the CRC because that affects the rebuild and, of the historic districts and things like that. And so, you know, we we've done things over the years of my tenure. Like, if you are absent 50% of the time, then, we're not it's, like, an automatic. We don't need to, actually get in contact with you.

It's just assume that you're resigned. And I didn't see some of the boards and commissions up there in your or, like, do you guys also, are evaluating CRC or, East Maui Water Authority or those kind of things? Is East Maui Water Authority considered a boarding commission for you guys?

For the scope of our study, I don't think we include if my memory serves, I don't think we include that. 20 going able 20. Start

first

with particular boards of and commissions?

Yeah, yeah. I put legislation to repeal the commission on children and youth because we haven't seen anything. Then I guess they got a new crop of people and they're working on some projects. And so that's kind of a different thing. Then which is, you know, if they're doing things, that's one thing.

But, like, you know, it it largely depends on the group of volunteers we get. Like, the last iteration of the board of ethics wanted their own independent staff and things like that, and that seems to be going well. I think one one of their proposed charter amendments was to allow people to serve a second consecutive term, and then we decided to, like, open it up to all. But I guess the public didn't, go for that. But I I also didn't see, like, any evaluation of the board of ethics.

Is that because it's an independent board now or because we need to have it and and you think that the process is, efficient and streamlined and you have a good return on investment? Or is it just not that you've taken it up?

So what were you asking?

Like, the Board of Ethics is not one you're considering or No. Just because it's not a low hanging fruit?

Yes. Yes, we're focusing our efforts on those that could be changed by ordinance as the easiest means of consolidating or eliminating particular boards and commissions.

Okay. And so you guys were informed that we already repealed the Pai'ia, Haiku, and South Maui advisory committees. Do you folks have any discussion about, like, letting, the various districts have their own planning commission?

To the best of my knowledge, I don't think we've had discussion yet, but we were advised about the elimination of those particular bodies.

Okay. Okay. And what do you feel is the goal that you folks are trying to accomplish? Like, to eliminate forging commissions that are not needed or to, make the process more efficient or all of the above? Or what what do you think the goals of your cost of government committee is? And And do you see the need of the cost of government commission to continue? Sorry.

I've only allowed to I've been only authorized by the cost of government commission to speak regarding our study. But what I can say is we're looking at both efficiency and effectiveness of the various boards and commissions in our evaluation. So our study is going to be two pronged in the sense that we're certainly going to look at the recruitment and nomination process, but we're also going to evaluate any potential for cost savings by either combining, combining or eliminating particular boards or commissions.

And what resources have you folks been what resources have been made available to you folks in your examination?

So the biggest resource, I think, is our technical writer. She's been doing an excellent job in helping us get through this whole process. We've also been interacting recently with the department staff at the Department of Human Concerns. We've also had the luxury of people responding to our surveys. I didn't think we would get the response that we would, but sure enough we did. So having people actually engage with us I think has probably been the biggest asset to how we've been doing this study, getting the, I guess, a pulse, if you will, of what's going on.

Okay. Yeah. I'm a fan of, Ms. Pellegrino. Oh, there's a fire.

Sorry. What about miss Yoshida? Have you been able to ask them questions as to how it goes through the process? I mean, in particular to what our chair was asking about about packets and how that the efficiency of that is because she kind of, it seems, is taking over miss Vissen's job, which would, like, bring people through the independent nomination board, then I guess bring them to the mayor, then bring them to us, and then get them on the board. So have you been able to, have them as a resource, miss Yoshida and crew?

As far as I know, we haven't had those discussions yet. But based off of the next steps, in our presentation that we that I conducted today, I believe that will be coming next.

Oh, okay. I'll I'll stop asking you questions. Thank you for your service. And and you're the democratic guy too, Or was that somebody else?

Yeah. No. That's me too.

Okay. They lift that they lift that off your, like, long and illustrious resume.

Oh, I'm just a regular guy with a title. That's all. Hoping to help Yeah.

Me too.

Thank you, member Palton. To follow-up on one of your answers to member Palton, how many people did you have respond to your survey?

That'll have to get back to you on. We cast a rather wide net. So we're talking department heads and staff who directly work with the boards and commissions

Mhmm.

In addition to board and commission chairs.

Okay. Cool.

Yeah. So I would have to get back to miss Pellegrino on a complete totaling of of all the surveys.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Member Collins Fernandez?

Mahalo, chair. Two questions. One is, is the commission looking at the history of the different boards and commissions and, like, providing, like, some historic background on why some like, some are super obvious, but some, you know, like the children and youth, for example, like if there was a specific thing that was going on during that time that made the council or whoever created, I think that would be interesting to learn and see if, you know, there are other ways of achieving that initial purpose. And then the second thing is, has the commission discussed ideas on how to or included in the survey, ideas from current boards and commission members, ideas on how to retain or attract volunteers such as like an opportunity to learn and develop by going to like a, like a training or a workshop or, you know, something, to do with that board of commission so that they're not, you know, just on on the job training, but also have an opportunity to do professional development.

So to answer your first question, our technical writer, I'll continue to sing her praises today. She's provided excellent background information regarding some of the departments we've interviewed because, as we know, context does matter. So we do have a bit of history that we've gone through with some of these. In terms of how we've done our surveys from the particular membership, I would have to look at the specific phrasing of the questions. But as far as I know, think we did ask questions regarding what's going well, what's not going so well, and any recommendations that they may have.

But if there's any specific information you'd like us to collect, I could always bring it back to the cost of government commissions, such as if they have any ideas for retention or or if there's certain training that they want or need.

Great. Mahalo, for both your responses on both those questions. I know some of the feedback was, for example, cost of sorry, not cost of government. Commission on Heating Solutions. There's like conference, and I think it's mostly annual conference on housing and on, you know, unsheltered.

And I guess being able to network with folks outside of, you know, the county to see what other people, other counties are doing, other organizations are doing in order to bring some of that, feedback and ideas to the commission, was, you know, something that, I received feedback on. Mahalo. Mahalo, chair. Thank you, Member Rollins Fernandez. Chair Lee? I don't

know if you'd be interested, but I can talk fast. Sure. The Commission on Children and Youth was something that I started years ago when I was director of housing. And the reason why was because we had this very strong advocate and she was focusing on early childhood education. And so I tried really hard to help her because she needed resources, know, a group to help her.

And so that's the reason why it was started. And then I don't know what happened with it after I left, But it was because of that early childhood education program and movement at that time that needed the resources and support of a group called Commission on Children and Youth. Thank you.

Yeah. It's on. Thank you, Terry. Members, any other yeah. Go ahead.

Her name was Terry Locke.

Terry Locke. Thank you. Members, do we have any other questions? If not, this item was proposed for no legislative action. And if you don't mind, I will now defer this item.

No objections.

Thank you. Thank you. It is two twenty nine, members. We did get correspondence, regarding our next item and in order for that we could just post right at the beginning of this meeting. So I'm gonna take a ten minute recess so we can all read it and come back at 02:40. And we will have the other people come up front, and we'll do a little switcheroo down here. So the great committee is now in recess until 02:40. Ten minutes. Good afternoon, Will the great committee please reconvene? It is 02:47PM.

And we have in front of us our second item, great five parent three. On August 22, I sent an RLS to Department of Corporation Counsel with questions on appointment appointments to boards and commissions, including the application of ordinance five seven seven nine twenty twenty five, sections thirteen two parent seventeen, thirteen two parent eight, seventeen parenthesis 18 parenthesis 19 of the revised charter of the county of Maui 1983 as amended. The correspondence is now available on Granicus, which is what we're breaking for, and the response. So at this time, I'm gonna ask from opening comments from deputy corporation counsel Murakami. Would you mind?

Thank you. Thank you.

I do have the letter. I apologize for

the delay. Oh, wait. Can you turn on your mic? Thank you. So the members online can hear you.

Hello? Hi. Is it on? Yeah. I think we're good now. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Hi. My name is Yukari Murakar. I'm from the, the Department of Council. I apologize to council members and everyone, online for the delay in getting my response letter. It is up uploaded, I believe. Also, I wanted to make correction a little bit. For the chart that I have for deadlines, for council's turn, I meant to say was the council needs to take action to approve by that deadline that I had Okay. Calculated using the starting from March 11. Okay. Otherwise, I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Will does anybody else have any opening comments? If not, I'll move on to testimony, then we can begin discussion after. Anybody else have opening comments? Okay. Seeing none. Oh, look. We went we went green. I see we have testifier online with us. So I'm going to read the testimony language, and I will begin with For individuals wishing to testify via Teams, please raise your hand by clicking on the raise your hand button. If calling in, please follow the prompts via phone.

Star five to raise your hand and lower your hand. And star six to mute and unmute. Staff will add names to the testifier list in the orders that to testify or sign up or raise their hands for those on Teams. Staff will lower your hand once your name is added. Staff will then call the name you are logged in under or the last four digits of your phone number when it is your turn to testify. At that time, staff will also enable your microphone and video. Please make sure your name appears on Microsoft Teams as the name you prefer to be referred as or as anonymous if you wish to testify anonymously. If you are in person, please notify staff that you would like to test ify anonymously. Otherwise, please state the name for the record at the beginning of your testimony. Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item.

If you are still testifying beyond that time, I will kindly ask you to complete your testimony. Once you are done testifying or do not wish to testify, you can also view the meeting on Al Kau Koo, channel fifty three, Facebook live, or mauicounty.us backslash agendas as well. We will do our best to take up each person in an orderly fashion, and we will now call on testifiers wishing to testify at the beginning of the meeting. If you could please call our first testifier.

Yes, chair. The first and only individual signed up to testify is the royal house of Hawaii. Aloha.

Aloha. How many are, there today so I know how much minutes I get,

because of that? We have two items, and this is the second item. So you will have three minutes.

Okay. I'm gonna do boardroom there. Okay. So, aloha, everyone. This is the royal house of a member of the royal house of Hawaii under Haewa Haewa Nui.

And as a native Hawaiian, roots going back all the way before this earth had light. And as a royal patron heir of Hepa Hepa, Helu three two three seven, Apana 2, where the new roundabout is in Kihei, Kulakai, where Hilton haven't, where the new Hilton is, we still haven't been contacted, and no one has had oh oh, Kalamai, had discussion with us, and the descendants and the beneficiaries and the descendants of Hava Hava to the undivided family lifetime estate on the entire of Ka'ono'ulu? For example, like, how are these how are many decisions being passed without contacting the descendants of the royal patents, when that was all supposed to be done and, find the descendants of the royal patents because they own all the lands forever. And all the landowners and all the the new developments are, illegal landowners. And and what and the TMK information, everything like that is getting erased from, from everyone's TMK, the legal information anyway.

And, I think that's a really great concern. I don't know. I just have to mention that too. But, and, yeah, please contact the descendants of the royal patents and follow Kamehameha third's laws. Mahalo.

Members, any clarifying questions for our testifier? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testify your testimony. Do we have anybody else signed up to testify?

Chair, there is no one else who has signed up to test ify. Would you like me to do a last call?

Yes. And as a reminder, this is item grade five three. Mhmm.

If somebody would like to testify in the chamber, please let staff know. Or on Microsoft Teams, please raise your hand. This is

take I'm

questions.

Happy accepted. We're now gonna to move on to the discussion portion. Members, I do have a four minute clock. I didn't mention that the last time, but I did add four minutes to the clock. And if you folks will allow me, I got a message that there was somebody new on the planning commission a few weeks ago that we didn't appoint.

So it kinda struck my curiosity on how we got to that point. And then I think just before that, OCS and admin had a conversation about how the new ordinance of 05/07/1979 is being implemented and which brings us to today. So if you folks had an opportunity to review the letter that, miss Murakami sent to us, you will notice that three people, were put to one at the planning commission, one at CRC, and one at police commission. I just wanted to discuss the process. Not necessarily the people, but just the process.

And if you don't mind, members, can I begin the questioning? And then we're gonna move on to you folks, if that's okay. Thank you. So, miss Murakami, I'm looking at your letter now, and this is, for question one. And I'm kinda this is about your second sentence in and it says, therefore, the requirement of section two four one zero five zero a to provide a list was never triggered.

I have a question about that because this council attempted to appoint two members to the CRC. One was brought forward by member Palton, another was brought forward by me, to fill those seats. And we were not able to do so because we had this long conversation about the list that doesn't exist. I used, a potential love letter of me writing to member Sanancy, and if I never sent it to him, my love remains unrequited, just like these boards continue to remain vacant. So I do believe that the requirement for that section should have been triggered.

If not triggered, how do you folks provide us a list, when we are going to appoint people. And, skipping ahead a few, looking at the schedule for the appointments, do we require a list, or is this a unilateral appointment by the council? And how is that gonna work?

Yep. Start where you need to start. Okay. So starting from the last question, I think that might be a little bit easier to answer is that for these deadlines that I have it's council's turn to appoint so it's appointment. I believe you follow then the section in the ordinance that talks about each council member is able to nominate a person for a seat and then they can be confirmed during council during a thirty day period.

Do we need a list? No. We do not need a list.

And to sum up, only talking about these are the outstanding ones where there was never a list. Yeah. But no, is not requirement. Members are free to nominate anyone they wish. And I don't believe there's also any residency requirements on that as well. So I think the council member can nominate someone who is outside of their residency. There's no requirements that I see in the the ordinance to do so. Okay.

There's not a residency requirement to what council member nominates a potential applicant, but there could be a residency requirement for whatever applicant is sitting on whatever board. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Can you please clarify? And I can't remember when we had the CRC people, but I know it was a council meeting member. Maybe member Palton remembers. But we were, again, unable to appoint somebody because we didn't receive this list. Can you clarify what happened then and where we are now? Or was that do you remember?

And I have to be I have to go back to my memory. I if it was before the ordinance was established Nope. Or after? After? After? Then I do have to go back and look at the minutes again and then Okay.

And if we were provided wrong advice, how do

we rectify that? I will also get back to you

on I'd appreciate that. And then for number two, I think this is your calculation on whose turn is when to appoint somebody to the whatever boards and commissions. I noticed you have language on Sunday or a holiday. Can you tell me how you calculated that, and how come it doesn't end on a Friday, or how come we said Sunday and not even Saturday? And would that shift the dates?

Sorry. So I followed the county code 1.404. I'm sorry. So the 1.04DotDotDot020E, which said a calculation of time is based if the if the last day ends on a Sunday or a holiday, then it gets to the next business.

So what happens if it ends on a Saturday?

So I didn't see that as a exception, so I ended it on on the Friday beforehand.

Will you might will you send that to us, please? Yes. What What you're referencing? The code. Yes. Yes, please. Thank you. And then, members, on the list, you'll notice, I think, on the last page, it goes the appointing schedule for boards and commissions without the IMB list. So this took effect, which I'm gonna be honest, members, I didn't realize this took effect, as it did. So I apologize.

I don't remember having this conversation, but we are where we are now. So I will read it out loud. We passed the ordinance on 03/11/2025. We apparently triggered first. So we had until 04/10/2025 to produce nominations.

And then it went to admin where they had until 05/09/2025 to produce, and then went back to us. So we were we skipped over our turn apparently three times, which is gonna lead me to my next question, though. So then it was our turn again on 06/09/2025, admins turn on 07/09/2025. It is currently well, we skipped August of 08/08/2025. And right now, obviously, it is 09/02/2025.

And according to admin's calculations according to our calculations, we can begin today. But according to admin's calculations, we now begin on 09/09, September 9. We have an opportunity to appoint people unilaterally, without a list and without, it going through the normal process where it goes to INB, then mayor, then us. So my question is, why didn't anybody tell us? We went three times.

We got no correspondence that it was our opportunity to fill these vacancies. This council has been working really hard to fill these vacancies. There were 25 of them. Three of them admin filled on this last round, so in July. But did you send us any correspondence? We're like, hey, council. Just FYI. Can you guys put anybody in here?

No. And I apologize if that didn't come through.

Yeah. That absolutely didn't come through. And it has been a long time. Three cycles of which there was no correspondence to this council, this committee to say, hey. 25 people, 25 vacancies, you guys have an opportunity to fill, which is not super cool because we're trying to figure out how to figure this out. We just had a whole presentation on how we're going to manage boards and commissions, how we can effectively manage boards and commissions. And three times. But anyways, that's where we are today. Member Palton, I see you have your hand up. So please ask your question, and then we'll go with Shirley.

Thank you. Yeah. I I just gotta say it. Like, I don't wanna be hostile or toxic, but I'm kinda pissed off because, I had put in Jeremy Delos Reyes for planning commission. He went through the independent nomination board. He keeps asking me when he's gonna be on. If I knew I had till August 8, I would have had his application is already in. You know? And then the mayor puts somebody from Upcountry. Nothing against Upcountry, but they're not rebuilding the whole SMA area.

We got some two guys from Upcountry right now. Do they live in Lahaina where the whole SMA is being rebuilt? Super uncool. And I'm gonna let him know, and I'm sure he's gonna let the mayor know a piece of his mind on tomorrow night. But, like, this is the broken process that was just being spoken about.

You got this secret calendar going back and forth on any kind of days. Where where where is us in the process that it's our turn to do it? This is a broken process. Words not meeting because of quorum issues or whatever, and nobody even knows what's going on. Like, this is really embarrassing. Like, I don't know what to say. Like, I had his application in. He said, oh, no. You can't act on it. Now there's a a vacancy, but nobody appointing somebody from Kahului.

So he got shafted out of his turn. It was still in there. His application was at the independent nomination board. Application was with me. I put it in, and he said, no. It's not your turn. And then he never said, oh, now it's your turn or anything. Like, bruh. I'll let him know, and I'm sure he'll let mayor know a piece of his mind, but that's between the two of them. It's just kind of shitty. That's all I got.

Charlie?

Just for our information, I'm sure corp counsel seems to be taking responsibility, but who else is involved in the process with the mayor's office?

That's a great question. Can anybody answer?

Well, we actually we submitted for our FLS. We thought it was the regular, you know, submit a nominee and go through the process. But then when it came back, they said, oh, no. These were in for these spots because they're so old. It falls into the ordinance. I mean, you all signed off on the ordinance.

You said they said who's the

Oh, court counsel. Came back and said, oh, these don't need a reso. So that's why we I mean, we didn't even know. Me and Jody just started. Right? So we didn't know that it felt that these particular they were so old. They fell into that ordinance. Alright. But this all

got signed. Right? I'm not trying to dwell on whose fault it was. Now that I know it's everybody's fault. The thing is, how do we fix going forward and how do we prevent the problems going forward?

We had a meeting with Peter and sorry, is it Tom? We were trying to like all we want is to fill seats, right? We did I mean, we're like trying to make this as an easier process. There's people's names on the IMB. We're not sure of how we can apparently, we can't give names to you guys. You guys have to formally ask for them or or just not sure about how everything works. But if you guys need names, we are more than happy to share them. We're even, like, trying to see if we can do, like, a shared document or something to let you know people who have come through the INB. If you guys are looking for applicants, there are people there. Sometimes it's just, you know, they don't fall into like a particular residency or they don't have a particular skill set.

Just your candid opinion. Is this process worth

fighting for? I mean, I think the INB is working. We've got a great nine person board. They're super well rounded. They're really great. They ask amazing questions. They're doing all the vetting and the interviewing for you guys. So I mean, it should help with the legwork of having to go out and recruit. They're more than willing to recruit people. We do have a list kind of going of people you guys can pick from. But we're unsure of the process of how do we share those names? How do we make it easier? Okay. Well, that's a chair's job for us. We sure about that.

Our chair is going take care of that. Thank you. You. You.

Members, there are currently, I think, roughly 43 vacancies. But specifically, there are now 22 vacancies that have existed pre IMB. So I think that's what's a little bit confusing. So these 22 vacancies that need to be filled, don't go through the IMB

process. Process.

So So they they either either are are appointed appointed by by mayor mayor unilaterally unilaterally or or us unilaterally. And that's kind of what we're talking about now is the vacancies that have been established pre IMB. We do have another list of vacancies that have been established post IMV, which are the delta between twenty two and forty three, so '21. Those are the ones that the IMV are gonna help us fill and send a list. So I know that member Sugimura has her hand up, but can I ask real quick to alright?

What's her name? Sorry. To to Risa's point, how is communication going to work between IMB, admin, and us, so that if fails to act on the 21 vacancies post IMV, how are we gonna receive a list so that we can, point for those seats, those vacancies? Are we gonna have a, you know, don't know, shared document? Are we gonna send it via post? Are you gonna send me a carrier pigeon? How is this gonna work? You don't need an answer now necessarily, but this this list, this elusive list has been discussed. Oh, we do have emails. So, however, you don't have to answer now.

But that's something we're gonna need to figure out is this communication of this list to fill the vacancies post IMV. Because the list pre IMV, we don't need it. Yeah. Right. Correct. Members Sugimura.

The unfortunate thing is this whole process is very confusing, and you can tell, right, what's going on. And I would imagine, thank you to the members of the INB who are volunteering their time, and then all around you, there's this chaos going on. So how can you give your time and be efficient is my question. Right? So does it can be in writing, but can somebody say this is what is supposed to happen and, you know, or do a chart?

This is where counsel communicated, you know, with them or with who and, you know, get it straight. Because just by looking at this, it doesn't tell me. It tells me what dates we missed, but it certainly doesn't tell me at what point we were gonna be communicated with. And then who can we select from? If you if you're saying that there's a list that we have to select from, why?

I mean, why is it that we gonna select from this list if the council may have other people they want? I mean, how do we how do we get here? You know? I thought that this was the blue ribbon idea when this is going through the Charter Commission, that this is the way that it's gonna, you know, streamline this process, and it's supposed to be transparent, I thought. So everybody who applied then would know, but then we are hearing at one of the meetings that someone we couldn't you couldn't reveal who was nominated to protect their integrity or I don't know the word.

Yeah. Animated. Yeah. That word. But I I think this is needs to be straightened out if it's gonna continue because once it starts impacting our our our commissions, especially the, you know, the high level permissions commissions ability to perform, it is not working. It is really not working. You know? And I I would imagine that you in the mayor's office, you you must wanna do a good job. Right? So you're doing all of this stuff, but it doesn't sound like what you're doing is being communicated to the next step, I think.

Well, at least not to the council. So can there be a process that you can say, step one, this. Step two, this. This list. I mean, we're used to seeing the list that says, you know, how many how many members they have to be from what districts, and there's a vacancy from that district, and you just can't feel anyone. That part needs to be communicated to us, which I think KC and OCS staff always did a really thorough job. So whenever a reso came to us, we knew exactly what we needed to do. But now it's kinda like we miss all these deadlines. How in the world did we miss it when we didn't even know? You know?

So is this another letter that we have to send to court counsel?

Well, I'm I'm at I'm gonna ask, actually, that we discuss a process now. When I said you don't have to answer me now, I meant literally like Ike or Manava. But I'm hoping before this meeting ends, we do have a process. Because I don't wanna have this conversation, just lingering in the back of

my

mind. I would like to talk about how that's gonna work. I would like to talk about when they send us a list, knowing we don't need a list for all of them. And not only when should they, but how will they, to allow for us to have time because we only have thirty days. And unlike admin, you know, our public process takes a long time.

So thirty days will come and go. So we need to be prepared before our thirty days begins. So we're gonna either need, one, a running list, or two, figure out a way to automatically update this list. Because if the list is not complete, then, you know, it does us no good for those vacancies created post IMB. But we have, you know, an hour and fifteen minutes to figure that out. But for right now, I'm gonna go to member Cook.

Thank you, chair. I think what we need is member

always been

on this topic. Okay. I think what we need is a flowchart. We'd make it a lot simpler to understand, to visualize. I mean, from a way MindMind works is we have the three entities.

We have the IMV, we have the administration, and we have the council. And the three entities need to be in the lineup of how it's going to work. Maybe corp counsel can answer this. How come we have this separation of pre INV and post INV? Why can't they all just simply go on to be do And that.

Ineffective and frustrating for everybody. So one, is it possible to get a flowchart? And then two, is it possible to get an under for me to get an understanding? It may be right in front of me, but I don't understand why the 27 and the 21 and the 47 and it's just we could probably make it more complicated, but we'd have to work at it. So it's not really it's kind of like that's a spaghetti question.

Thank you.

And then as far as the chart flow chart, we're going to try and work on that so that it will be everyone can look at it and everyone can make comments on it. It'll be clear for everyone. So I would work with the administration on how that flowchart would look like. As to the second question, I believe the caveat in not being able to having a list required for all independent nomination board is then, I guess, it becomes of when is that deadline going to be at? If INB wasn't there to begin with but they're supposed to have say for resignation they were supposed to have sixty days to submit a list but they weren't there at that time the vacancy was created, we can't go back in time and say the charter applies backwards when it wasn't there.

So we can't say that INB sixty days was there and then there was thirty days there. So that's why we had to pick I mean I picked the dates, I picked up March 11 as the starting date. I knew that was when the ordinance was taken effective. So that's how high I could start the time again. So that's what the issue would be to how do you get the timing to start again so the deadlines can be triggered for IMB or the council or the mayor or

we'll the company.

To do do then applications that are already all signed up and queued up, could they kind of like go in and be prioritized, processed to simplify all of this?

And again, this is the limitation having a Sunshine Board, Sunshine Law Board is that their meeting dates may not fall within those sixty days either. At least one meeting, but it may not. So more often than not, the INB will be submitting a list of names if they have a list prior to the sixty days. And then that means that the mayor has I believe thirty days then to submit nominee to, I believe, right to four sixty for the resignations. We're documenting the resignations to council for another thirty days for council to approve that. So yeah.

Thank you, chair. Thank you.

Thank you. Sorry, members online. I see that you guys have your hands up. I'm gonna go with member, comma, member Rollins Fernandez, and then member Johnson. She has three hands. Member Rollins Fernandez has two hands. And member Johnson, you have one hand up. So, member, comma, if you

don't Yeah. Was the order. Oh, Sorry. Gabe was first. I thought Remember, Johnson. All her

hands up. Okay. We'll go sorry, member Johnson. Then you go first. It's you up first. Yeah. Interesting.

Okay. Because I thought the same thing. I thought counts remember, comma, spam

Yeah. I thought you did three times.

So so okay. All right. Oh, man. I kinda feel like I'm trying to it's very hard to stay positive in this kind of, discussion. You know, it's just the result of people not working together, working in silos. There's no collaboration. The people are unsure of the process. The administration is slowing it down, and I think the ineptitude is showing. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to say it.

When we try to make policies, I try to make it so that the administration and the administrative burden is not too much. I try to work with the administration and not make policies that they can't do or administer. But this is just I can't see how hard it could be to get these folks into these positions that we all seem to want, we all say we want. The it just reminds me, like, you know, before process of the IMB, it was to stop these political favored appointments, right? You know, or these folks that were just too close to they were getting appointed for the wrong reason.

So instead, we switched out politically favored appointments to just bureaucratic chaos. I mean, is chaos. I think the we wanted to take out the politics, and what we installed was bureaucracy. I want to kind of just move forward here and say, can we just have corporation counsel, OCS, come up with a counter, lawyers talking to the lawyers, making sure that we're following the process because as councilmembers, we're spinning a lot of plates. And for councilmember Hodgins to be on top of this deadline, that deadline, this that's kind of that's a whole lot.

And then amongst other things that her her committee is supposed to be doing. So I guess my question now is, can we see the lawyers working together on this, and whose court is the ball in right now? Right now, as we speak, who's supposed to be pushing names up right now? Because maybe it's on us right now. We gotta go jump at, you know, jump at this opportunity. So those are my questions. Can OCS and and Corporation Counsel work together, come up with these deadlines and explain to the council. And then, who's where are we right now today?

Member Johnson, thank you for asking that question. So right now it's, with admin. According to their calculations, they have until the eighth to bring forth or rather unilaterally submit names on on their behalf. Our turn will start on the ninth. So before we end this committee, which I know we're not, I was gonna let you folks know that OCS is gonna send us all an email to let us know what boards and commissions we have to fill unilaterally, those 22 seats and, when they would need to get done by. That I was gonna end the meeting with that. But since you asked

Okay.

That's that's what's gonna happen. And it according to admin, our time starts on the ninth. I like your suggestion, and I don't disagree that OCS and corp council can work together to not only figure out a process and a timeline, but figure out how we're going to, work on our communication, and figure out how this list, this invisible list, is gonna be, you know, passed through.

Thank you, chair. You know, as my final note is this was on the ballot. The people voted for this, and this is the product we gave them. It's it's kind of bananas. Thank you.

Did you wanna comment on working with OCA staff, miss Murakami? I know you guys I know you guys just had a meeting, but, maybe you're going forward. We can have a meeting and or you all can have a meeting and figure out what process is going to work and how the list from IMV is gonna be sent over to us. Yes. We want

to have, like, a even if it's gonna be a regular ongoing meetings to have with OCS and I'd appreciate that.

Thank you. And I

just volunteered OCS because I didn't ask them their opinion, but nobody said no. So we'll go with that. Member Rollins Fernandez, your question?

Chair. Okay. So the the creation of the INB, was a little bit of a Frankenstein creation of what members the Gimura mentioned, the Blue Ribbon nomination board and a confirmation committee or appointment committee. And a big part of the purpose of the IND was to increase transparency and then also help with recruiting because both the council's offices and the administration could use that help. So those were the overarching purposes of the INB, which growing pains.

So then the charter was silent in providing direction when both the mayor and the council missed the deadline or when, I I don't remember exactly. I I think it was something like that. And then, out of that, to address the silence in the charter, this whole new process was created far more complex than pre INB. And so I I agree with member Cook that it it would be great, to have a visual so that we can all understand when to expect the list, when to not expect the list, or when a list is not required. And then when an appointment is appropriate with or without confirmation.

Yeah, it's a lot more complex than before, and growing pains are expected, but this is intense. I would like to suggest, perhaps, I'm a fan of Google Spreadsheets, and that's what we use to track our testifiers. And think perhaps, you know, because multiple people can see it at the same time and you can see changes being made in real time, that maybe that's one way, to be able to kind of track the, mayor's deadline and then the council's deadline to fill vacancies. That's what I got right now. Mahalo here.

Thank you, member Rollins Fernandez.

I appreciate those comments. Member Kama, your questions?

Well, questions, comments. I'd like to be able to see from what point to what point does the INB do their role, and at what point does the administration do their role and at what point does the council do our role and is there something that is laid out similar to what previously was said putting out a Google Maps or a chart or something that tells us who, what, when, where, how so that we can be clear direction that we're going in because right now I felt like we've been in and it's quite dizzy on my end. But I would like us to move on and to just get this taken care of Cause we have our public that is waiting to serve and we're over here trying to figure out, how to make that happen. And we should have figured it out quite some time ago. So I don't have any questions, chair, but that's just my comments.

So Thank

you. I appreciate those comments. That's why we scheduled this meeting today so we could figure out what went wrong. So not gonna do that again in the future so we can figure out how to course correct. That's that's why we're here today. Member Sugimura, you have something to add.

Clarification. Does the INB select everybody?

No. It selects everybody post creation of INB. It goes from post creation of INB, which was approved by the electorate. They review, and submit a list of names to the mayor. Mayor then selects those and send it to us for confirmation.

The remaining list of names will remain on a list for us to appoint, for vacancies created post IMV. Pre IMV, none of that matters, and we go back to unilateral appointment, which are 22 seats. Post IMB, 21 seats with five alternates. Okay.

So I have a question. Yeah. The last, appointment that was done by the mayor and this is post. Right? That's the post period. So what was that within the confines of what you just described? So the last appointment that was done by

the mayor was done unilaterally pre IMV creation. So it was actually three. So we have somebody now sitting on planning commission, CRC, and police commission. Those three? Those three. Those are appointed July. And we we got company communications, for that. So we don't have to confirm it? We do not have to confirm that because that was pre IMV, unilateral appointments. And so when it is our turn to have unilateral unilateral appointments, we don't take direction from the mayor.

It is within our hands to determine who we see fit to serve on what board. So how did that become a pre when we're sitting right now in post to me? Because there was vacancies, that existed previous to the establishment of the IMB. That was member Cook's question. How can we kinda just group them all? Basically, they're existing vacancies. Okay. So we're gonna get next to their name? Or we're gonna get There should be, like, a little asterisk. List. Yeah. So, members, do we have any other Go ahead.

These vacancies don't necessarily have any applicants. No. There's not a list of applicants that we would know, he would know. It's like, just say round numbers, 20 vacancies pre IND.

Sure.

Yeah. There isn't an existing potential list to look at. We need to when it's balls in our court

We need to solicit.

Go, Okay. That's why we need a little bit of forewarning. Nice. Yep. We need to reach out in the community, identify people who would be qualified, willing applicants that we could seduce them Mhmm. Bribe them Mhmm. To step up. And then we would unilaterally, if in the majority, would simply place them on that commission.

Yep. For if the vacancy was created pre IND, yes.

Yes. So thank you very much.

You're welcome. I think a flowchart will help, for sure. Member Senancy?

Point of clarification. Yes. No bribing will be the record that we're not and then we're not bribing. Yes. I know.

I heard it Okay. Yeah. We can beg, not bribe. Wrong beat. Hello, Member Cook. Yeah. Thank you for that. Member Senancy.

Thank you, chair. So, our opportunity coming up will be in October and December?

No. Our opportunity coming up will start on September 9.

September 9.

September 9. According to admin, using the if the deadline falls on a Saturday or I'm sorry, a Sunday calculation, which they're gonna send over to OCS. And when they when they talk story, they're gonna find out what calculation is what. But for now, we'll go with September 9 because that gives us some time to get our life together.

And we're we're addressing the post list or the pre list?

Pre list. Post list will go through, IMV. Pre list is, what we're kind of focusing on now other than communication. But the pre list has 22 seats, and OCS will be sending out an email to let you folks know, which different boards and commissions, we have the opportunity to unilaterally seat somebody.

And we'll take turns until we get rid of the pre list, and then then it's all IMB.

Yep. We were drunk and a monkey all the way until we figured it out unless we missed the term that's, I guess, expired because I do see some terms that expire on in 2026, which is gonna be March 2026. So can you maybe you can answer what we do after the vacancies pre IMV when they expire. Do they then revert to this new IMV version? No. So how I see it is that expiration date for those of

us that's 03/31/2026, it'll all be part of mass nominations. So the IMB is required to provide a new list for that mass nomination for 2026. Okay. But theoretically, you only go back and forth until the term is ready for a mass nomination.

Okay. Until yeah. There's a few. That's 2026. Okay. Yeah. Member Paul thank you, member Senensi. Member Palatin. Oh, member Palton, we cannot hear you. You're still on mute.

How about now?

We can hear you now.

Okay. Thanks. I just was communicating with my applicant that I didn't know it was my turn to nominate. And he had been, he also applied with the INB. And so he was calling me and, like, asking me about the INB, and I didn't know. And then, apparently, the IND, put forward some other person of country's name. Is it the practice of the IND? Are they gonna let the applicants know if they're gonna put their name forward or not? Because I kept getting called, and I don't know the answer. I mean, it's kind of courteous if you let them know, like, yeah. We're gonna choose you or, oh, sorry. Somebody else. We're choosing somebody else.

We do send we gave mayor a list of people who had gone through the INB. So he chose from a few applicants. But then the applicants are informed that their name will stay on a list for a year.

Oh, because the mayor told the applicant he never, knew Jeremy applied. But Jeremy told me he went through the IMB. So is the mayor not being truthful, or how did that work out? Or he just don't want the Jeremy wrath?

I believe that he I mean, we sent the names we had, all the people. My planning commission is probably the most applied to board or commission, which in this case, usually, there's no spot. So then they try to,

like No. Was Reese's name on the list that was sent to the mayor. Just trying to get to the bottom of the story because I'm sitting in the middle I believe so. Of all of it. Oh.

The louder so you can hear.

Mayor doesn't have to go with the list either, Ryan B. He voluntarily will ask for if there is a list available for a particular vacancy, but at this point in time, he's not required to because of the unilateral appointment. He's not required to, but

he knew who's on the

created the IMB? So he's not

required to use the list from the IMB if the vacancy was created prior to IMB. Prior to IMB.

Forward, the current vacancies, if there's a vacancy that's happening, he is required if the list was provided to his office to pick from that list.

Yeah. I think somebody's not not somebody somewhere along the line, there's either a misunderstanding or there's not a truthful situation because I don't know. Yeah.

Member Palton, would you like them to do a little bit more, research on this applicant and then they can get back to you on figuring out what happened? Yes, please. Okay. That might be good. Because the whole point of, the INB application was sometimes to keep the applicants at that time, anonymous, which now talking about him using his whole first name, I know he already came here, defeats that purpose of them remaining anonymous at their time, but not anonymous when they come to us, when they convert from, applicant to nominee.

Nominee. But they can they can maybe we can, look into that and figure out and get you a better timeline on what happened and when.

When when are we seeing that the INB was, not is it January 2025 it started, or when did the INB start?

I think it was 07/01/2022? '4. '24? No. Can't be '24. Meeting was April.

2024. 04/01/2023 would have been when the charter would have

been effective? Because it was delayed some. So we had a lot of back and forth on what we can do with the INB because the creation of the INB was quite delayed. Yeah. Because

from what I see is It was supposed

be July 1 Yeah. 2020

So the vacant position that was filled was from a person that resigned on wasn't it Joshua Circle Woodburn, was appointed to a term expiring 03/31/2027. Is that correct?

Is that correct? Yes.

And that position was vacated on 03/12/2024. So that's post INB if the INB was July 1. So that's a post IMB situation. Right?

We have it listed as, February 27. Sorry. 02/27/2024 is the date listed on our

From the person who resigned

That Blaine Apolle resigned February 27?

02/27/2024.

Okay. The then we're having different dates, but that's still after 07/01/2023. Right? So that's the INB process.

Correct. But the INB didn't, have their first meeting until, I believe, April 2024. Is it April or March? Sorry. March, sorry, March 2024.

Okay. And then the discrepancy between when they resigned, how come one paper says February and one paper says March?

Yes, I have 03/12/2024. That we'll have to take

a look into how that difference in dates happened.

Okay. Member, comma, it's

So,

Oh, sorry. Go ahead, member Palatin. You can continue, and then member, comma, turn is up.

I just was wondering if we could get, I guess, until we resolve. Because I I feel like a pre INB list should take precedence because that means, like, there's been vacancies for, like, over a year. So can we get, like, two lists? One, like, pre IND and one post IND, and then, like, what are the the criterias and things, like, for each list because, I mean, I just put out a on social media, and people tell me they wanna be on it. I don't know why it's so hard for others, but, I don't know.

Maybe they don't have the social influencer status you have, member Palta, and they're still we're still working on it

over here. Okay. Catch up.

Thanks. Thank you. Member Akama, you have any questions?

Yes. I wanted to just say, you know, all of the information that court counsel is gonna be doing and the research regarding all of these discrepancies that was mentioned by member Palton, that if we could all get a copy of all of that so we can all get on the same page as to where it all began and where it all is gonna end and how we correct as we go. So that's all I wanted to request here.

Okay. Thank you. Members, any other questions before I end, this meeting with a few comments? Okay. So I wanna just there's I mean, there's no clearing the mud because it's really confusing.

But as a reminder, the council's time to appoint unilaterally will begin according to admin, September 9. So that's in a few days. As you know, members, we only have thirty days. So OCS is gonna send you folks, all of us, an email documenting the vacancies that are available for the council to unilaterally appoint. Those are 22 vacancies.

There are several that end on end in March 2026. So whoever you ask to volunteer, their term will only be for a few months. So you may wanna focus on the ones that are beyond 2026. That's just a sidebar note. Now OCS will be sending you those lists soon.

Of course, we have to do a rezzle. We're all familiar with that stuff. I'll start after. I think the most important thing that came out of this meeting, and members please, jump in if you folks have anything to add, is that OCS and corp council will work together to create, one, a flowchart for how vacancies are gonna be filled pre and post IMV and provide it to the council and whoever they need it that we can all be on the same timeline and we can all understand how this is gonna work going forward. And two, create a process of communication for the IMB list for post IMV, vacancies?

And let us know can we create a process to let us know, when the admin unilaterally appoints to, any board and commission? And we will do the same, and we will let mean, I ours is a reso, so it's quite public. But nonetheless, we'll do the same in letting admin know which seats have been unilaterally filled by the council. So we're all working on the same vacancy list. Maybe you folks can also kind of coordinate beyond what member Palatin was saying about that one person, but coordinate the timelines on which vacancies happened when.

I know that's kinda splitting hairs, but that's what we do sometimes. And then shucks. I just had one more thing that I didn't write down. I don't know. Now I forget. If I send you an email, I'll send you an email. The list. We just need the list for those post IMV, and we need, as a council, to figure out how we're gonna seat those pre IMV. Yes? Member Rollins Fernandez?

Mahalo, chair, for creating us a map. As a member of Kama stated, which I love, a Google map, to help us navigate out of this. I I just wanted to add one comment to the suggestion of avoiding the seats that have the term expiring next March that I think they could serve, you know, like now until March. And then, you know, if they're doing a good job, we could re, keep them on reappoint them. And that that that might be good too because then they'll have gone through all the steps of, swearing in and submitting their financial disclosure and, you know, those those those things.

But I I support everything that, you just said, chair, and mahalo for summarizing, what the takeaways from today's meeting.

Thank you for that. And that's a good point. So if we do seat somebody in the 26 seat, I know we created a law that they can kinda roll over. Is that, still applicable, or do they have to, because the vacancy has now been created post the IMV, go through that process so we can stick with the unilateral appointment and they can roll over? Okay. Thank you for that. Thank you, member Rollins Fernandez. That's important to know. We will let. If we do put somebody in there that expires in the 2026, let them know that that's something we can consider as well. I appreciate that. Member Johnson?

Thank you, chair. I'll be quick because I just have one question for the administration. Do you have the tools you need to do a good job?

How can we help? Tequila, paperwork, what you need?

I'll be quite honest. Our my predecessor, Corey, Vissens, she did all of this work all by herself. She was asking for help for the longest time and never got it until she decided to leave. Mhmm. And then both of us were hired on instead to do to do this work, which takes a lot more, I'll be quite honest, than just two people to this to do the boards and commissions work.

It's a lot of work, especially when you're also having to staff a lot of the commissions yourself as well too. And especially with the commission that meets practically every two weeks. So after I have one meeting, I have to work on the The

next.

Agenda for the next meeting and make sure the minutes are also done as well too. And it's it's a lot of work that is put upon us that we try to do as much as we can as we can possibly do.

You know, I really appreciate that candid response, and thank you. Didn't say thank you yet, so thank you guys for your service and thank you for that. You know, come budget season, this is what the body can do. We can help you guys fill spots, but at any given time, the mayor's office can really kick it up a notch if you guys if there's a need, and that's why I was trying to find. It sounds like you guys are we don't want to leave you out to do an impossible task. So if you speak to the mayor and you need a bigger budget, could do they could help you. If that doesn't work, comes you know, this body can help you during budget. But I I just wanted to make sure that you guys have the tools in the toolbox.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, member Johnson. And, yes, thank you so much for all being with us. It's been, not even navigating. We've just been wayfinding this whole process. It's been quite difficult and confusing, so I do appreciate your guys' time. Members, this item was posted for no legislative action, so no part, we gotta do any more stuff. They gotta do more stuff, and then we'll hear from them. As a reminder, please check your emails. OCS will be emailing you so we can continue to work on these vacancies. And it is 03:47, and this great meeting is adjourned.