Government Relations, Ethics, and Transparency Committee - Regular Meeting

For the government relations ethics and transparency committee meeting of 07/22/2025, please come to order. It is 01:33PM. I'm your chair, Nohelani Uuhajans. Members, in accordance with the sunshine law, please identify by name who, if anyone is in the room, vehicle, or workspace with you today. Minors do not need to be identified. Let's begin with committee vice chair Tamara Pulton. Good afternoon. Hello. Aloha. All the things.

Good afternoon. Hello. Aloha.

Councilmember Tom Cook.

Aloha. Good afternoon, chair.

Councilmember Gabe Johnson. Aloha.

Good afternoon. Aloha. Chair, council members, committee members, there's no testifiers at the Lanai District office, and I'm here and ready to work. Mahalo.

Thank you. Councilor Natasha Kama is with us online. Aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha, chair, and half a day.

Half a day.

I'm in my workspace, and I am alone.

Thank you very much. Councilor chair Alice Lee, aloha and good afternoon.

Aloha, good afternoon, and the other half a day.

The other half a day is today. Council member Keani Rollins Fernandez, do we see her online with us? Not yet. Okay. We'll come back to her. She'll be with us shortly. Councilmember Shane Senetti, aloha and good afternoon.

Hey. Aloha. We're not allowed to share here in my home office. I'm here by myself, and there's no testifiers in monitoring.

Thank you very much. And councilmember Yukilei Sugimura, aloha and good afternoon. Aloha.

Good afternoon. Looking forward to a very interesting meeting.

From corporation counsel, we have Mr. Thomas Kobe, deputy corporation counsel Ms. Susan Leader, deputy corporation counsel and Tori Takayesu, corporation counsel. Our committee staff include Maria Leon, committee secretary Casey Apo Takayama, senior legislative analyst Jared Pasquale, legislative analyst Peter Hanano, legislative attorney Leigh Deneen, counsel services assistant clerk and Gene Pocquipala, counsel services assistant clerk. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Do we have any testifiers?

Sure. No testifiers assigned up at the beginning of the meeting.

Okay. You can walk down and as you're doing so, I'll read this. Testifiers wanting to provide testimony should sign up in the lobby or join on the online meeting via Teams link or call into the phone number noted on today's agenda. Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via the e comet link at mauicounty.us backslash agendas as well. Under the sunshine law, the chair will receive oral testimony for agenda items at the beginning of the meeting and as the item is called up. For individuals wishing to testify via Teams, please raise your hand by clicking on the raise your hand button. If calling in, please follow the prompts via phone. Star five to raise and lower your hands. Star six to mute and unmute. Staff will add names to the testifiers list in order of the testifiers signing up or raising their hands.

For those on Teams, staff will lower your hands once your name is added. Staff will then call the name you are logged in under or the last four digits of your phone number when it is your time to testify at that time. Staff will also enable your microphone. Please ensure the name appears in Microsoft as the name you prefer to be referred to or as anonymous if you wish to testify anonymously. If you are in person, please notify staff that you would like to testify anonymously.

Otherwise, please state your name for the record at the beginning of your testimony. Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item. If you are still testifying beyond that time, will kindly ask you to complete your testimony. Once you are done testifying or you do not wish to testify, you can also view the meeting on Akaukou Channel fifty three, Facebook live, or mauicounty.us backslash agendas. We will do our best to take each person up in an orderly fashion. We are now calling testifiers wishing to testify at the beginning of the meeting. So, mister Law, you're welcome to testify.

I say that in Hawaiian. Alright? Okay. The second item on the agenda today, aloha, everybody. Thank you for working for the county.

Let me try this out. 25109. Leo Kaires. That is, regarding allegations made by Leo Kaires, a former county of Maui employee. I'm pretty sure mister Kaires' birthday is coming up next week.

And it would be a nice gesture to we just call it a birthday present to him to just go ahead and settle and thank him for his work with the county.

Staff, is there anyone else wishing to testify?

Chair, we don't see any further individuals signed up to testify. Would you like me to do a last call?

Please.

If anyone would like to testify, please come up to the podium or raise your hand on Teams. This is final call. Three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you very much. Let's move on to the first item on our agenda. We have before us resolution 25 dash one four one, which should approve the settlement of the claim filed on 11/13/2023 in the amount of $62,986.66. The claim alleges negligence against the county from an alleged misdirected water sprinkler occurring on or about August 20 I'm sorry. 10/27/2023. At this time, if I could request opening comments from miss Susan Leader and then parks director McCall, if you have any comments, you're welcome to provide them as well.

Okay. And good afternoon, counsel. This is a property damage claim that resulted from a mistreated sprinkler by the Parks and Recreation Department, the park in Central Maui Regional Sports Complex. Complex. We did investigate the claim thoroughly.

There was an expert that was consulted to determine that the whether the damage was from the sprinkler and that that was considered in this. And the claimant did get three estimates. I provided all three to you, and we are asking to requesting and recommending settlement at the lowest amount, which is 62,986 and 66¢. And I don't know if you have any questions or if mister McCall would like to say anything.

Director McCall is walking to Do we wanna have him sit here or Oh, do you want us You're welcome to do that if you want.

Thank you, chair. Yep. Again, Pat McCall, director of department parks and recreation. Do to to a three sixty. And the sprinkler that. Heads were once we turned off the irrigation system, replaced. And it's a we had to wait for the internal parts to come in. And then now we're changing out that brand of head. I just wanna make that clear. Thank you. Any questions?

Do you have a clarifying question? Does somebody have a clarifying question? If not, we'll take testimony and then we can into get discussion. But if you have a clarifying question, member Palatin, you're welcome to ask.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, director McCall. Just a clarifying question on the broken sprinkler head. Mhmm. It look like a hose is shooting at the window?

Basically, it's it's basically a sprinkler going which would normally water a field. But instead, it's doing a three sixty path all the way around. So it just continues to spray the home.

Thank you. Just clarifying what

Thank you. I appreciate that. Before we get on to discussion then, I would like to receive any testimony if we have testifiers for resolution 25 dash four one four one.

Thank you, chair. There's no current individual signed up to testify. I can do a last call if you'd like.

Thank you, please.

This is the last call for oral testimony. Please come up to the podium or raise your hand on teams if you would like to testify. The countdown is three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you. Members, seeing there are no individuals wishing to testify without objection, I would now close oral testimony for this item. Thank you. And as a reminder, written testimony will continue to be accepted. Members, we're gonna go into our three minute discussion period. So if you have any questions, please raise your hand. Member Palton.

Thank you. So, from the clarification, I understand I was going three sixty. I guess what I I didn't really understand is, like, it it really sucks for the individual. But at my house, it rains a lot. Sometimes it rains sideways. How how did this much damage occur from a sprinkler going three sixty? Like, I that's the part. I mean, I'm not saying he's not telling the truth. I just don't understand.

Yeah. In in his claim, he did specify that he not only had open windows and, you know, screens. It was also going into the vents at the top of the house. It was coming into the attic space.

Okay. Thank you. That clarifies it.

Okay. And I understand that member Rollins Fernandez is joined us, but her camera not okay. There she is. Aloha member Rollins Fernandez.

Aloha. I am in my vehicle on Maui making my way there. Okay. I am not alone in my vehicle. I have my niece who is a minor, with me, and there are no testifiers at the Malaga District Office.

You very much. We'll see you soon. Any other questions? So I I actually have one. Oh, member member Senancy.

Apollo chair. I just had a question about the distance, of the sprinkler to the property line to the house?

Mhmm. That's a good question. I don't know if

Director McCall, do you know how far away the sprinkler head is? Information on that.

Thank you for the question, councilmember. The sprinkler is along the park's boundary, along the backyard, it's very,

very,

when it went into the three sixty mode, it basically shot at a higher level at at the house hitting the claimant's home along the walls, windows, under the eaves, etcetera. We saw we got one picture of it that was sent to us at the time which helped us identify the area and whatnot. But the distance is I can't give you an exact measurement, but basically the backyard. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. And so the damages I believe there were two estimates and the damages were two or three estimates and it was to the drywall where it would what would have need to be changed. What was the scope of the work of the estimates?

I can go ahead and answer that. Thank you for the question. The scope of work included flooring, masking on the walls, asphalt shingles. It's listed on the first estimate that was provided. It's a demo of the ceiling drywall, demo of ceiling drywall in the office, water soaked ceiling, kitchen cabinets on an affected wall, drywall, drywall again in the kitchen, in the office, and some other wall areas.

Kitchen window seal was broken, an office window seal was broken, exterior trim around the kitchen office window. They had to get a new kitchen window, new office window, new exterior trim around the windows, caulk and paint affecting the exterior, installing a wall and ceiling installation, drywall, mud tape texture, that type of thing for wall repair and, resetting the kitchen cabinets and cleanup.

Okay. Thank you for that clarification. I just wanted to get a sense of the damages. Thank you.

Thank you, member Senanzi. Member Kama?

Thank you, chair. I don't have a whole lot of background about what and where and who and but that seems like a whole lot of oh, and then there was a video that he said he had sent, and I wasn't able to access that video. At some point in time, can we look at that? Because I think that tells a clearer picture than what I'm trying to figure out. This one sprinkler in somebody's backyard going at three sixty degrees and getting making enough damage. Dollars 60,000 worth of damage in someone's home. How does that happen? How long has that sprinkler been running that that much damage could occur?

Hold on. Let's get the answer. I

don't know all that. I did see that there was a security camera video referenced, and I do not have that. Maybe Director McCall has any more information on

that. Yes.

Thank you, Director. So is this like an impact quarter

strong of GPMs, gallons per minute, but they are high volume sprinklers. And from my very amateur look, from what I can see, I believe the damage is because of mold. It has to be removed as part of the process.

To member, Kamala's question, do we know how long the sprinkler was on before somebody stopped it?

It would have been the cycle the day that it was broken. And then when they contacted our office, our personnel were dispatched to shut down that line

Mhmm.

And just keep the line off until they did an inspection and found the sprinkler and then, replaced it.

Member, did that satisfy your question?

Well, then the other thing comes up with mold. I mean, how long does it take for mold to to to show up? I mean, how much damage does it take for mold to actually grow that we ended up getting a problem with mold?

Do we have a mold expert? Are you

We did not get a mold expert. He did include mold in his initial claim. However, in the the estimate of what work was required to repair it, it doesn't specifically have, like, remediation of mold, but, mostly water damage. So I'm not seeing that in the estimated repair, referenced in there.

Okay. Remember, comma, are you satisfied?

For the video that was on YouTube, but we didn't have access to.

Is there a video?

The claimant did reference a video from his security camera. We did not see that. I don't know if Parks and Recreation saw that or if the adjuster, I can look into that to provide it if it's available.

We did not. Well, I know I did not see the the video. I did see the still photo. It it might have been taken from the video, I we had a still photo.

Yeah. Okay. Member Kama? Did you have any other questions?

I don't have a whole lot. I don't have any more questions. I just have other thoughts and ideas running around my head in terms of what I don't know, but yet I'm supposed to make a decision on reimbursing this this constituent with very little information. So I've just got that swirling around. Thank you, chair.

And Go ahead. What I would say is when he made his initial claim, he made a rough estimate himself of 40,000 in damage. But when he oh, sorry. When he got the estimates, there were three estimates, and the other two estimates are about 20,000 higher. So we are looking at settling for the lower estimate. So it's consistent that there was significant damage based on the companies that came and evaluated.

Yeah. Does anybody else have any other questions? Remember, go ahead.

I don't have a clarifying question, but I have a clarifying statement.

Go ahead, please.

Generally speaking, when you have water damage, they go over and above to tear stuff out until they identify that there is they get to a point of market. Of then then the point point they And probably tore off all the drywall, turn out the cabinets, do all this stuff, extensive amount of work to ensure that when they put it all back together, that there's no problem. So that's just sort of clarification. It seems like a lot of work because they're not just mopping up water. Thank you.

Thank you. My

other question is, you know, what are we gonna do to prevent it in the future if if it breaks again or somebody kicks it or does something? Are we moving the sprinkler head so that if it does go three sixty, it doesn't reach his house? Or, like, what we don't want this to happen to this guy again after he, or we pay all this money to fix it? Like, how and hopefully, it won't happen in any other park or any other house. So how do we learn from this going forward to that not let it happen again?

Thank you for the question. The irrigation section of our beautification section of our department is changing out that brand of sprinklers where we have that internal part problem. And we're trying to remove it from all the parts that we have them in at this time.

Okay. Great. And so and have they troubleshot that what they're changing it to won't cause this type of problem again? Is it not a high volume sprinkler that they're changing it to? Or are they putting it in the middle so that if it does go $3.60, it doesn't reach the guy's houses?

No. It's just a different design of sprinkler. Sprinkler. There is going to that sprinkler had an internal piece that would give up, and that's what caused the problem.

Okay. So crossing our fingers. So this is like a neighborhood, and it did the most damage to this person's house? Did it hit anybody else's house, the

water? It the sprinkler is right in back of his Oh, is. His particular property.

Direct line of impact? Mhmm. Okay. Okay. Anybody else have any other questions before we move on to the recommendation? K. Double triple checking.

I just had one other question. Yeah. If we're changing out all the sprinklers and it's, to a better system that doesn't give out, Do we have any recourse to that sprinkler brand? Like, These are faulty and look into it. I've

have not heard back on the warranty situation, but I believe by the age of the park, we'll have already passed the warranty on that sprinkler.

Oh, Yeah. Would've been nice to have these with them.

Right? Playa Park could use some sprinklers too, director. Just saying. Oh, anyways. Okay. At this time then, I would like to entertain a motion to recommend of resolution 20 five-one 141, including any non substantive revisions.

Second.

Thank you. I have a motion made by member Sugimura. Second by chair Lee. Any further discussion? Nope. Seeing no further discussion, Member Rollins is gonna be with us shortly. All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Chairs nine ayes, zero nos. Motion carries. Thank you. And we're going to move on. That item we'll see in full council, yada yada yada. Same spiel. Okay.

Moving on. I scheduled this item today in accordance with rule 7B of rules of the council and as required by resolution 25 dash one zero nine c d one, which notes Marr, Jones, and Wang, LLP must prepare and present the council with an initial case assessment and litigation cost assessment to include settlement options regarding the allegations made by Leo Kairis, a former county of Maui employee, following the approval of that resolution. We are now moved on to item grade five parin one. That previously mentioned resolution was adopted 06/30/2025 and is posted to the great agenda as grade five one GRATE five paren one. We had a whole bunch of questions the last time this was at committee, so at this time I will ask Ms.

Leader to provide what little opening comments we're probably gonna hear in open session.

Thank you. And I do have a special counsel, Richard Rand, who is available to answer questions, and I would request that we go to executive session to discuss. Okay.

Before we do that, if we could please ask staff if there's any testifiers wishing to testify at this time.

Thank you, chair. There's no individual signed up to testify. Would you like me to do a last call? Please. If anyone would like to testify, please come up to the podium or raise your hand on teams. This is last call. The countdown is three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you. Members saying there are no individuals wishing to testify without objection, I will now close oral testimony for this item. Thank you very much. As a reminder, written testimony will continue to be accepted. Do we have any questions members that may be asked in open session? If not, we will move on to executive session members. Okimura.

Thank you. At one point before we got to this, we were to read a complaint that was provided by the kirises, I guess. Are we going to have that opportunity?

Yes. And so we were just waiting until special counsel was fully retained and all the paperwork was taken care of, which we needed the resolution back to do. So that's all in place now, and I do have that available. And you can schedule to come and talk with me about it. Okay.

So it's a brief

schedule and go individually to corp council. Not gonna be presented today. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, why not? We can give more details in executive session. Okay. Okay then. Do we need to wait for member Rollins Fernandez to come into the chambers? Okay. Member Palton, please go ahead.

I just was wondering if we have an update. Like, when we had it, it was pre litigation. Are we still in pre litigation, or are we in litigation yet? Still pre. Pre litigation. Okay. And, we're not allowed to ask much more things in, open session, like why why would he think that he is gonna litigate if he hasn't litigated yet?

I think it would be better to address that in executive session if we could. Okay.

And is there a time frame on it? Is that executive session as well?

There isn't anything right now.

Okay. So no time frame. And and we don't know because it hasn't gone to litigation what is being asked because that'll come when the litigation comes.

Prices.

Yeah. Yeah, we do know what he's demanding, but we'll need to address

it in executive session. Oh, okay. I think, that's all the questions that I think that could be, open session. Probably the rest would be executive session, but I guess I thought some of them were open, but not.

Charlie? Yeah. Thank you. So what can be discussed in open session?

Should you answer that or should, special counsel Mr. Richard Rand answer that?

He's available to answer. That would be Is

he online?

He is on. He should be online.

I am, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to unmute myself because We can hear that I'm

can't see you. So you're in omnipresent voice, but Now we can. We can see you now. Okay. And we can hear you.

So, I think not in executive session. We should keep it very limited to the fact that we received a demand from him. He's retained counsel. It's not in litigation. But to get into kind of more granular details, I would feel more comfortable sort of a strategy approach, what the claims are, what the defenses are. That, would prefer to keep it executive session.

Charlie? Okay. At some point, we should be able after the matter is in litigation, can we then discuss why the whys and any other information regarding the case? Or do we have to wait till the end of it? Mean, at some point, it has to be made public, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And when we go into executive session, I'll I'll explain that. But, you know, once litigation's filed, anything that's filed is public unless it's filed under seal. So that all becomes public information. And then his theories at that time will be public. Our responses would be public. If depositions are taken, they're public. It it's a lot more, I guess, transparent at that point. But things like, okay, what's our approach going to be? How do we value the case? That, I think, is still under the realm of something, you know, attorney client that you wanna keep in executive session. Okay.

Thank you. I was just gonna say, I think when when you come and review the demand letter, you'll have a little more specific information.

Okay. Hold on. If this is member Rollins Fernandez, then we don't need a short recess. Teamwork. Teamwork.

You have to share the bread. Members, do we have any additional questions that can be answered in open session? Seeing none, I would like to then entertain a motion to convene an executive meeting in accordance with section 92 dash five a four, Hawaii revised statutes to consult with legal counsel on questions and issues pertaining to the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities of the county, the council, and committee. And section 92 dash five a eight, Hawaii revised statutes to deliberate or make a decision upon a matter that requires a consideration of information that must be kept confidential pursuant to a state or federal law or court order.

So moved.

Thank you. I have a motion made by Member Palton, second by Member Cook to enter into executive session for resolution 25 no, for great item five one. Any further discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Chair, that's nine ayes, zero nos. Motion carries. Thank you very much. For the record, the following personnel will be attending this executive meeting.

All council members in attendance, including myself, committee chair Nohelani U'uhajans, committee vice chair Tamara Palton, council member Cook, council member Gabe Johnson, council member Tasha Kama, council chair Alice Lee, council member Keani Rollins Fernandez, council member Shane Senansi, and council member Yukile Sugimura. Office of the council services staff include mister Peter Hanano, legislative attorney Maria Leon, committee secretary, and, Rochelle Kawasaki, deputy OCS. From court counsel, who are we gonna have besides Mr. Rand? Chair, given that we have a conflict, with our department, we're going to rely on Mr. Rand to represent the department, so all three of us will be leaving. Okay. I'm so glad we gave all the chairs to you. No. We're just joking.

At this time then, we are gonna take a ten minute recess to reconvene at 02:14, in executive meeting. And this great committee is now in recess. Good afternoon. Will the great committee please reconvene? It is 03:58PM. Members, we have just completed our executive meeting on item great five paran one. At this time, I'm gonna refer to mister Anano to provide the summary in accordance with Hawaii revised statute section 92 dash four.

Thank you, chair. Your great committee met to discuss special counsel's assessment of the case, which included strengths and weaknesses of the claims alleged, settlement options, litigation strategy, as well as the rights and liabilities of the county. Thank you, chair.

Thank you very much. Members, as I mentioned earlier, this resolution was posted for no legislative action. I would now defer this item without objection. I object. Thank you very much. That means this concludes the government relations ethics and transparency committee meeting. Thank you very much, members. It is 03:59PM, and this meeting is adjourned.