16 Water Resources Committee - Regular Meeting

And welcome to the Wassa Committee meeting of Monday, 10/20/2025. It is 10:02. And again, mahalo members for your patience in this later start time. I'm Shane Senensi, your committee chair. Just as a reminder for members of the public to please silence any cell phones or noise making devices.

Members in accordance with the Sunshine Law, if you are not in the council chamber, please identify by name who if anyone is in the room vehicle workspace with you today And minors do not need to be identified. Also, please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Joining us today, Committee Vice Chair, Gabe Johnson is the

Directors

Board Thank you, Chair. Of of

Also joining us in the chambers is Council Chair Alice Lee. Aloha.

Aloha. Good morning and welcome back from Washington. The State of Washington and Tulalip. I believe that's where you were.

We were.

And the greeting there, you'd say,

Yeah. Mahalo for that. I don't see we're going in in first

minutes.

And welcome back from your spring break trip. Also joining us in the chambers is member Yuki Lei Sugimura.

Good morning, everybody. Looking forward to a productive meeting.

Thank you. Thank also joining us online, I do see member Nohelani U'u Hajins. Aloha and good morning.

Aloha, chair. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm at my private residence. I do have two adult males here with me. We have Khoa Hajans and Makoa. Uh-uhajans are around. But looking forward to your meeting. Thanks, chair.

Mahalo for joining us. And I do believe member Rollins Fernandez is en route. So I'm sure she'll jump on her phone should she have any access. For the Department of Parks and Recreation, we have Director Pat McCall and Mr. Sam Marvell. Aloha and good morning.

Good morning, Chair. Glad to be here.

Thanks for being here. From Department of Police for our second item, we'll, anticipate Assistant Chief of Police, Greg Okamoto. From the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney also for our second item. We have Ms. Shelley Dematos and Mr. Chad Kumagai. And from Corporation Counsel here in the chambers, have Ms. Yukari Murakami. Hello and good morning.

Good morning, Chair.

Members, our committee staff is helping to conduct this morning's meeting. We have Ms. Crecelda Paranata, Ms. Clarissa McDonald, Ms. Tiare Del Castillo, Ms. Megan Moniz, Ms. Leigh Denin and Ms. Jean Pokepala. Mahalo everyone. Okay members on today's agenda, we have two items, Resolution 20 five-one 178 authorizing execution of the park assessment agreement for the Waialae Park large lot subdivision under section 18.16.320 Maui County code was up 10.

And we have bill 100 nineteen-twenty 25 penalties for prohibited noise violations was up nine. Without any objections members, I'll also Board Board Directors of Atherton, Waiale nine zero five Partners LLC's manager and their attorney, Mr. Jeff Uioca for Wassup 10. Welcome gentlemen. Expecting major Brayden Olgada from the Honolulu Police Department for our second item for his expertise on Honolulu's prohibited noise enforcement ordinance, which Bill 119 was modeled after.

Members, let's begin with public testimony. Staff, do we have anyone to testify this morning?

No one is currently signed up.

Okay. Can we bypass that part? Okay. We'll go straight to, our first item. Members resolution twenty five-one hundred seventy eight authorizing the execution of the park assessment agreement for the Waiaale Park Large Lot subdivision under section eighteen point one six point three two zero Maui County Code.

The resolution's purpose is to authorize the execution of exhibit one, the park assessment agreement for the Wai 'ale Large Lot Subdivision. This requires Wai'ale nine zero five Partners LLC to provide land in perpetuity or dedicate land for park and playground purposes as a condition of subdivision approval. Through the agreement Waiale nine zero five Partners LLC who dedicate approximately 21 acres for a neighborhood park and provide pocket parks throughout the subdivision. We have representatives from Waiale nine zero five Partners LLC and also from the Department of Parks and Recreation to provide more information on this agreement. So with that, could we have Mr.

Coach Atherton or Mr. Uyoka? Would you want to provide some opening comments?

You, Councilmember Sen and CEO, members of the committee. Jeff Ooyoca. I'm with, the Waikapu Country Town project. So just wanted to give a little bit of clarification there. So the name of the subdivision to create the park is the Wiley Large Lot, Park Park Subdivision. But this park will satisfy the park assessment requirement for all of Wakapu Country Town. So just wanted to clarify that. Yeah. So 21 acres. We're at full build out like a Pool Country Town supposed to be around 1,433 homes.

If we follow the terms of the PPP, it should be around 500 residential workforce housing units. 212 multifamily that's in Akanaha, which is underway right now or hasn't started, but it's in permitting. 75, at a further stage of Akanaha or somewhere else multifamily, and then 213 single family residential workforce housing units. So that's, in a nutshell, what this park should satisfy the needs for or the park assessment requirement for.

Mr. Uyoka, we have a question for you from Member Poulton.

You, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Uyoka. Can you repeat the first number that you said? Was it 1433?

Yes. 1433.

Okay. And then, the part that the chair was speaking about additional pocket parks, is that total acreage combined to 21 acres, or is the 21 acres that contiguous piece?

The 21 acres is the contiguous piece. There'll be other little green open spaces throughout Wakapu Country Town.

And those other green open spaces won't be dedicated or maintained by the county? Dedicated to or maintained by the county?

Oh, we could certainly talk about that too if you want them.

Oh, no. I just was clarifying.

No. Yeah. No. They're they're gonna be probably privately owned and maintained. And do we're to to

that. And we're

that. First quarter

And able and you stay on for further questions. Oh, go ahead.

One little clarification, sir, just get it on the record. I'm sure it wouldn't matter to you guys. But in the park assessment agreement, in I guess it's the second recital, half with 20. 20 substantive. But just wanted to point it out on the second record. Thank you, Chair. And

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Uyoka. Next, we'll go to Director McCall for some opening comments.

Thank you, Chair. The Parks Department has met with Mr. Oyoka and the other representatives of the development on multiple occasions. And we truly appreciate their cooperation and taking into account our concerns and have addressed them that able And excited going about the that. Project and we feel good about it at this point.

Mahalo. Members, any questions for the director? Did Mr. Marvel have anything to add?

Thanks, Chair. I'll just reiterate what Director McCall said. We've met multiple times with the developer and have been very pleased with their cooperation in the process, feel very comfortable with the agreement. And I think it's going to be a benefit to the county and a good thing for us. So we're happy and satisfied with it.

Mahalo, Mr. Marvel, members. Okay. At this time, before we begin our discussion, let's take testimony for Wassa ten. Staff, any anyone wanna

There's currently no one signed up to testify. If somebody would like to testify in the chamber, please let the staff know. Or on Microsoft Teams, please raise your hand. This is gonna be last call. Three, two, one. Chair, it appears that no one wishes to testify.

Members, any objections to closing public testimony for this item?

No objection.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Members, we'll, again, open the floor for any other questions. Should you have any? We have, just raise your hand. Member Palton then, member Cook.

Thank you, chair. I guess my first question is, is there infrastructure in the area like electricity, water, sewage? Are we putting up bathrooms? Do we have the staff to maintain it, like, so

to

then, with

we've done. Work And a facilities, some of the site lines, which would change the grading of the area, which was very beneficial, I think, in our favor.

And we're putting up the amenities, the counties. Is? Tell me. Yeah.

Thanks for the question. The developer will put in, some of the amenities as required by code. So irrigation, comfort station, items as outlined in the reso. So they'll do a lot of that legwork, the grading, those types of things, and we'll take it from there.

When is it expected to be able to be utilized by the public?

I'll have to defer to the developer on that Okay. Timeline.

And and it'll be for the public in general.

Sir O'Neill. Oh, thank you, chair, customer Paulton. Get right to do we're going the And to so going get to the to Iconah has been developed. So Iconah has on its own track, but it is reliant on the backbone infrastructure. And they're expecting full build out in, like, two to three years after they get their building permits and their approval.

Hopefully, like, 2030, 2031 ish for

park construction plan approval. You mean construction plan approval of the park or of the subdivision or the Iconahan development? Which construction plan approval?

So the construction plan is for the sorry. I'm dealing this all the time, so it's in my head, it makes sense. That's for the backbone infrastructure. So, like, the water lines, the sewer lines, the drainage, all that, the roads. So it's gonna be like a trunk from Malka down to the Waiale Road extension ish in that area, basically to the school. And then from there, I can I can stub off, and then the school eventually can stub off, and the park is behind the icon? I'm sorry, shouldn't say behind. It's more towards Waikapu Stream from icon.

Able that. To And going able do do do to that.

That.

That.

Construction plans attached to them eventually but. Well five in right now.

Well it's a great project project and it's hopefully the people who are viewing the plans will. Take note we're getting a park. We're getting a school. We're getting affordable housing. All of this stuff is forthcoming- Nothing gets cheaper. Anyway, if you have any ideas of how the county can facilitate it, let the council know.

Oh, thank you. We we will. Appreciate that. Thanks.

Model Member Cook. Members, any other questions for either the department or the developer? Okay. Members, okay to take a ten minute recess at this time? Okay.

Thank you. The committee meeting is in recess, till 10:30. Hello, and welcome back to the WASO Committee Meeting of Monday, 10/20/2025. It is 10:31. Thank you members for that short break. I'm going entertain any last questions for Resolution 20 five-one 178. I see Member Pulton, did you have any further questions before we recommend adoption?

Yes, please. I just wanted to know, like, when we would be physically, taking responsibility of the site. Like, is it when this resolution goes through or after the infrastructure gets installed? And, you know, just for liability sake, what if a fire starts on that parcel? I just wanted to know that kind of information.

Mister Weoka. Thank you, chair. Council member Paulton. Yes. No fires. We don't want fires. But, so the way the park assessment agreement works is we have the plans. We worked with parks, got something that we all kind of like. Then the council has to approve the park assessment agreement. We will do the improvements to the park or the land for the park assessment agreement.

And once it's complete. Then we will dedicate it over to the county but the what the park assessment agreement does is it's not like a discretionary approval by the council at that point. Now it's a discretionary approval by the parks director, whoever that may be, and they will be able to accept the sorry. Didn't mean anything there, but it might be a few years. That's why. No. But if if we met substantially comply with what's in this park assessment agreement, then the parks director can accept the park from the developer.

When when they dedicate When

it when everything's Paul complete finish to their satisfaction. Reasonable satisfaction.

To back They don't because we did this up front.

Yes. Yeah. After Kehlani, this process was adopted.

Okay. And so so then it might just be a county communication like, hey, we accepted the dedication or something like that.

Yeah, I believe that's the process in 3.44 my county code. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Mahalo. Okay. No further questions. Okay. At this time members, the chair will entertain a motion to recommend adoption of Resolution 20 five-one 178 including any non substantive revisions have been moved by Member Cook, seconded seconded by Member Poulton. Any further discussion? Okay. I will now entertain a motion to substitute resolution 20 five-one 178 with the proposed CD1 version attached to my posted ASF dated 10/06/2025. So moved.

Second.

It's been moved by Member Cook, seconded by Member Poulton and members the proposed CD1 version incorporates revisions for clarity and style to comply with the drafting guide of Maui County legislation. With that, I will also entertain a motion to amend second whereas clause on page two and subsection d on page four by replacing 21.014 acres with 21.041 acres. So moved. Second. Moved by Member Poulton, seconded by Member Cook.

Any other discussion? Okay. We'll take the vote on the substitution. The

amendment to the substitution?

The amendment to the substitution, yes. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand and say

aye. Aye.

Staff? Aye.

Chairs, that's six ayes, three excused. Councilmember Rollins Fernandez, Councilmember, comma, and Councilmember Johnson. Motion passes.

Okay. Back to the main motion as amended. The substitution. Oh, the one more for the substitution.

As amended.

Okay. Motion to sub, the substitution as amended. Raise your hand and say aye. Staff.

Chair, that's six ayes, three excused. Councilmember Fernandez, Councilmember Kama, Councilmember Johnson. Motion passes.

Okay. Now back to the main motion as amended. All in favor say aye. Raise your hand. Staff?

Councilmember, that is six ayes, three excused. Councilmember Ron Fernandez, Councilmember Kama, and Councilmember Johnson. Motion passes.

Okay. Thank you. Members, this item will move on to the full council for consideration. Mahalo, Director McCall, Mr. Marvell, Coach, nice seeing you.

Mr. Uyoka, Mahalo. Members, our second item is bill 100 nineteen-twenty 25 penalties for prohibited noise violations. Maybe we can switch out while I quickly read. Members, bill 100 nineteen's purpose is to amend section nine point three six point zero four zero of the Maui County code to increase fines and establish penalties including possible forfeiture of sound application systems for prohibited vehicle noise violations.

This bill was introduced by Charlie and was modeled after the city and county of Honolulu's prohibited noise enforcement ordinance specifically their violation and penalty section four one dash six dot three of the revised ordinances of Honolulu. In correspondence dated and received on 09/30/2025, the County Of Maui's Department of Police reported that no citations were issued under section nine point three six point zero four zero in 2024. And the response is number three in Granicus. Maui police department also submitted questions regarding the proposed conviction for a third offense in bill 119 including one who determines the value of the sound applications system, amplification system, two, who is responsible for carrying out the forfeiture And three, once forfeited, will the sound amplification system be destroyed or sent to auction? And we can discuss these questions during today's meetings member.

Since Chair Lee is the introduce, I'll start by giving her the floor for some opening comments. Chair?

Thank you. Now this item, I'm sure every community is very concerned about and very annoyed that people are disturbing the neighborhoods with this extremely loud sounds. And just one clarification, this ordinance may have looked into Oahu's ordinance, but this ordinance was actually introduced in 1990 by myself. So this took effect, 9.3604 was, was passed in 1990. And the reason why I did this, I introduced this on, on the, on behalf of some citizens.

What happened was and and for those of you who know the the Davis family, Chelsea Davis, her mother was originally Paulette Souza and then Silva married to was it Milton? Milton sue Silva? Anyway, he went to Baldwin. And so they were married, and Milton called me because there was an accident. And their son, their teenage son, was in the back of a of a pickup truck.

And I think they were going into the school, Baldwin High School. And their the boombox was so loud that when he fell off the truck, nobody could hear him screaming. And, unfortunately, he passed away. So the dad, Milton or maybe it was Mervyn. Mervyn Silva.

He asked me if I could try and pass a law that could help prevent something like this. So it was originally targeting boom boxes because in those days, you know, the kids would go through these neighborhoods, mainly the shopping centers and schools and and blast these boom boxes so loud, you could barely hear anything. So this is how it all happened with the boom boxes. And now we have fast forward to today, it's not so much boom boxes, but they have these other ridiculous sounds that they have, which I think they might think is entertaining, but it's not. And it is incredibly loud and it's and it's not confined to, like, a a small area.

It's like the whole subdivision can hear this this noise, this music, whatever you call it. And so this is the reason why I am introducing this amendment to increase the penalties so that people will think twice about, you know, blasting their radios and disturbing the whole neighborhood. The I I realized that the police, you know, find these things as probably annoying and nuisances. However, you know, something has to be done. We can't just let people get away with this and think it's okay.

I know that these are shorthanded, but it's not that we expect them to be stationed at every corner all the time. But they should, I think, could be more discerning and pick where the areas that they receive the most complaints and then and then have

some kind

of presence there, you know, on occasion. And then so the other thing is, recently, my son was attend attended a training on Oahu where Ed Sniffen mentioned that they have this this problem too and then what they they have highly sophisticated cameras now and other devices. So he offered to share this information and possibly the software that they have and they purchased for Maui to use for traffic control and for enforcement of these things. Another thought I wanted to share with you is Ed mentioned that oftentimes, it's it's not so much the money that people would necessarily prevent them from behaving this way because in some cases, they'll just say, just tell me how much and I'll pay. What they don't like is if they have to give up their time.

For instance, another penalty but I'm I don't know if we're set up for this, but another penalty is required community service. Now that would kill them. They they do not wanna do that. They rather fork over $500 or a thousand dollars just so long as they can keep going instead of giving up the a whole Saturday or something like that, a whole month of, you know, volunteering their time. So, you know, I don't expect this to be passed today.

I, you know, I expect, you know, a lot of discussion and and what would be the most effective ways to, if not eliminate this, you know, this incredible nuisance in the in the neighborhood, but at least reduce it. And at least let people know that they are being watched. Yep. So, hopefully, members, I I hope you can support this, but maybe we could have more ideas shared. And it's it's similar to when I wanted when I proposed the arson squad and and I was told by the fire department, well, you know, we don't have the personnel.

We don't have it it's not necessarily they have to be there twenty four hours a day. It's this occasional, well planned presence is more effective than somebody trying to, you know, chase people down around the clock. Okay. So thank you very much for having this. And I I hope that you consider the penalties, the increase in the penalties because remember, this was originated from 1990. My second year on the council. So, yeah, it's time for change and an upgrade. Thank you.

Mahalo, Chair Lee, for those opening comments. Members, next we have the First Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Ms. Dimatos and Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Mr. Kumagai with us this morning for some opening comments. And we do see member Rollins Fernandez entering the chambers. Welcome.

Aloha, Kakahiaka, Chair. Call them for my tardiness. Aloha, Sorry thank about that.

Hi. Thanks for being here. Ms. Dematos?

Good morning. Okay. Thank you for inviting us to this. You know, we'll be here to answer any questions. I did check our database to see if we had noise control cases.

The section that we would charge under is actually the ordinance 9.3603. Zero zero four zero is actually the penalty section. Not all of our traffic violations of fences end up in our database due to the volume and they do tend to move quickly. So like the police, I didn't show any of these citations in 2004. We recently charged one I think early October of this year.

I did a look back of five years. I counted seven or eight cases. Despite what the numbers show, I mean, been a driver out on the road in the community, I do understand the need for this noise control ordinance. It is a quality of life offense. Right?

We're we're on the road. We're trying to pay attention. You know, we're being distracted when people are turning up the volume of their system at a very high level. So I just wanted to, you know, provide that. You know, my office is here, you know, to support this, answer any questions about possible penalties. Mister Chad Kumagai is our supervisor of our appeals division, very valuable member of our our office, and

he

can also assist in answering any questions. Thank you.

Mr. Kumakai? You're just here for questions?

Yes. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Mahalo. Thank you, First Deputy and Mr. Kumagai. Next, we also have Assistant Chief of Police, Greg Okamoto joining us this morning, if you would like to provide some opening comments.

Good morning, everyone. I appreciate everyone's efforts here as far as addressing this this matter, you know, it's a it's a community issue. Yeah, I know it's it's it's not a nuisance to us, you know, but is that we just have to work together and figure out, you know, a more efficient way of addressing these issues. I'm here to answer any questions and also just kind of follow-up with some of the questions we had as far as the amendment, as far as that administrative portion. That's it, Chair. Thank you.

Mahalo, Assistant Chief Okamoto. Before we begin our discussions, members, let's take testimony for WSOC nine. Is there anyone who wanted to testify to this item?

Chair there is currently no one who has signed up to testify. If somebody would like to testify in the chamber please let staff know or on Microsoft teams please raise your hand. This is the final call. Three, two, one. Chair, it appears that no one wishes to testify.

Members, any objections to closing public testimony for this item? Okay. Thank you. All right, members. I'll open up the floor for questions and comments. We can you can have three minutes for the first round and then another three minutes for the subsequent rounds. I see Member Palton, go ahead, Followed by member O'Hudgens.

Thank you. I'm looking up 9.360.03, and it refers specifically to sound amplification systems heard outside the vehicle from 50 feet or more when the vehicle is parked or operated in a public area unless it's a request assistance or warn of a hazardous condition. So I was wondering, like, is it only vehicle sound systems? Does it also include, like, bicycle or not bicycle, but motorbike mufflers or dual dual mufflers things like that. Or what about, house parties?

House parties are exempt and also coffee bean and tea leaf on a Kona wings, maybe. I don't know. Just just asking. And then my second question, I think that side is for the, prosecuting attorney. For the police, I just wanted clarification on what he said was more efficient. What would be a more

question.

Respect to sound amplification system, I don't think that would include Can

you go closer to the mic, please?

I I don't think that would include a muffler or a party because the sound application system is defined as an amplification speaker sound system or any part thereof.

Even if the muffler was modified to be louder? Because music actually sounds better to me than those modified mufflers.

I think that we would have to consider a different definition of sound amplification system if if that is the something we're trying

to address. So we're specifically targeting people that like to listen to their music loud and not all the other annoying sounds? That's what it appears to be. Got it. Thanks. And then, for mister Okamoto, when you said more efficient, I was wondering if you could clarify. You think this is not an efficient way to go about it? Is it because you gotta get convicted and that takes your time?

Yeah. So so just to clarify too. So if you look at this ordinance that we're talking about, this this bill amendment specific to 9.36, which is the the vehicle. So it's not, you know, it's not about like social host or anything like that. So, this is limited to the the vehicle, vehicle part and you kind of touch upon it right there like you said as far as the the efficiency as far as like, yeah, we can do the enforcement, you know, and then, the prosecutors would do the best as far as the prosecution side, but, you know, is there are we going to add like the intent of the bill just to add more teeth teeth to the penalties and just hold more people accountable and try to curb or change the behavior of community.

In that sense, far as efficiency, it's a collaborative effort with everyone.

You. Okay. Member Pulton. Next we have Member U'U Hutchins, but I did want to remind members that Major Braden Ogata from, Honolulu Police Department is also online if you have any questions for him. Bill one one nine was copied after the, city and county of Honolulu. Member Uhu Hajins?

Thank you, chair. So a couple quick things. I do support the intent. I do remember when I was when my children were young and my kids would finally fall asleep in the car and somebody would pull up next to me with the loudest music and waking up my children. And I had to more than once ask somebody to turn it down because it's too much. And then it is difficult, to hear sirens in an emergency situation if somebody's music is beyond comprehension. I don't know how they can even hear it. It's so loud. My question is not necessarily on whether I support this, but how would this work? If we don't, have any citations now, how would the removal go?

I I do appreciate police's questions when they would ask, like, who's gonna remove it? How do we determine the valuation? As member was saying, many of this are, like, after mod, like, all of these modifications. So I just wanna know, practicality wise, like, how would this work? Who's gonna remove it? How do you store it? Is it optioned off? And if so, that's just gonna go in somebody else's car. So how does this work?

Thank you for that question, member. So I think what would need to happen in order for a forfeiture to occur is the sound system would need to be seized pending forfeiture so that the procedure under HRS Chapter 712A can commence.

Here. Could I just add that this would be for the third offense? It's not the first Yep.

Yep. Finding Yep. And then the forfeiture. But the one in police's questions was who's gonna remove it? Do we have a partnership? Does the county have a partnership with who may remove it? Like, maybe whoever installs the breathalyzers or how like, I'm not against this. I just wanna know how it works.

Is that for Sure. Oh. Go ahead.

So I don't know if Bruno Gatza is available, but they already have this ordinance in place. Maybe they have already something set up that maybe they could share they do their removals and forfeitures and whatnot because those are the questions that we had as law enforcement agency. And Brady got all dressed up, that's great.

Major

O'Ghata. Hello, all committee members. I'm Braden Ogata of the whole police department. I'm the major of the Waikiki patrol district. So, tricky question as far as forfeiture.

So, officers don't get involved in forfeiture for this particular section. What we also use is, it's important to know the scope of this one. Sometimes this 30 foot rule doesn't only apply to vehicles. It can also apply to things we see in Waikiki, people with allowed, know, even a portable type amplification system where they're playing music or that type of thing so in those cases the officers may collect those items if they're portable as evidence for for the violation of the noise ordinance. As far as for forfeiture that would occur in the court system later.

So yeah, sorry, prosecutors, but it might be something a little away from the the police side of it. But so yes, it's been in existence. I don't know. I tried to look back and granted this ordinance has been in place for a while from us. I couldn't find any history of the forfeiture side. It's not done on the police end of it, if that makes sense. So sorry, it's not a great answer, but that's the answer I have for that.

Thank you. Thank you, chair. Perhaps we can. Another one of my questions is, I guess, how often does this happen? I know again, it's on the third offense. You guys have had it for a while. Does it happen often where it is, seized? I I can get understand, as Charlie said, the boombox situation, that's a little bit easier. But if you do know, I would appreciate it. Other than that, I really have no other questions. Thanks, chair.

Okay. And we can save that for the second round. Next, we have member Sugimura followed by member Cook.

Thank you. So it's interesting because if this has been around with City and County of Honolulu as well as our police department and then the prosecuting attorney doing their research, not having, you know, a lot of offenses. So I wonder if it is because it's difficult for the police. You know, what is your reaction to that? Maybe there are bigger faces What whatever police department. MPD?

Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know about HPD but I know when when I was an officer way back in the back in the day, well, not a officer but a patrol officer. I think one other question was, I guess, like, determining you know, like, what is, I mean, there's kind of common sense things but then, is there like a measurable, you know, you could, you know, we had to articulate, well, I was, you know, X amount of feet from it and I could hear it and you know, it was so many, you know, so many decibels or anything like that. So I think that was that was that was part of it. But again, you know, that goes to like maybe we gotta figure out a way of like how do we articulate the the the offense more too.

Perfect. Because that was my next question. I'm sorry if HPD Major Ogata didn't let you speak, but I believe that noise or sound is generated by the Department of Health. So I wonder if Department of Health has standards that we need to comply with to figure out what is offensive in terms of sound chair. I don't know.

Department of Health was asked these questions. And I wonder if if we somehow were able to define it or help the police department, then maybe they would be able to have more offenses because there's some kind of measure as we deal with law. You know, oftentimes, need we to define something in order to you know, like speeding or or things like that are pretty easily measurable. But sound is something that is could be, you know, according to what somebody feels. It's it's if it's not measurable, it's really hard then to take it to court and say, oh, this was whatever.

So I wonder what the police department may need from help with department of health with help from department of health so we can get some kind of guidelines, you know, as to what would be measurable and then help them take these offenses to court. Because I think that's where we're trying to get to, but it sounds like it doesn't we haven't had any according to the records of the prosecuting attorney. Thanks very much for looking back. You know? What are we missing here?

Did deputy Dimatos have And

please can correct me, but, again, having that measurement at 50 feet may be difficult. I was talking to Mr. Kumagai, you know, and maybe, you know, using body cam video as a way to capture the sound and show how far your way might help. I mean, granted we didn't have body cam available years ago, but I I think the measurement, the specific measurement of 50 feet, may be a difficulty, for the police. But AC Okamoto, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

No. I mean that's exactly what we're talking about.

Okay. My time is up. So I'll second round if

I can expound on have the the

time we first

second

we prosecuting a case like this? What what would people come potentially come back with in their defense?

Mr. Komagay? I

I think that the main defense is gonna be a lot of times, there wasn't an exact distance measured or, you know, I I guess it could be blaming it on somebody else if there's a lot of traffic nearby. I think those are the types of challenges that we may have.

Okay. So good. Thanks. My next question, this is for prosecutor two, is if there is there a problem with the current laws to basically be able to use do that.

Second

And

of

COVID-nineteen with second be then And for your concerns on that?

It could be. I would need to know more about the technical aspects of how it's recorded and kept.

Thank you. I think the answer clarifies between distance, all the different criteria to basically how do we enforce it. What do we do? I just wanna I'm I'm real supportive of this. I don't know how it would be enforced, but sitting in a traffic light and having a car pull up next to you or four cars away and your window's shaking, it it's it's annoying. And I guess, is this is somebody gonna say, like, this is freedom of speech issues? Like, I'm just doing my thing?

No. I I don't believe that there'll be any First Amendment issues. It's a content neutral law.

K. Well, I feel for the police department. We thank you, chair. It's a good thing. We need to really have structure for the police to be able to actually do it and not just set them up with something that's not enforceable. Thank you very much, chair.

Before we go to chair Lee, member of Rollins Fernandez for your first round opportunity.

I don't have any questions.

Okay. Chair Lee.

Thank you. I don't think there will be problems recording and identifying where the sound is coming from. Look at fireworks. We have a problem with fireworks. Do we have many arrests? No. You know, it comes down to people complaining, willing to testify, and having the right equipment available. I'll give you an example. This doesn't happen probably in Kula. Yeah?

And it doesn't probably happen in Kaupo. But it happens a lot in Walluku and Kahului. I can't speak for the other areas because I spend most of my time in these these areas. And right on Honoapi'ilani Highway from, let's say, where High Street ends and then you pass the front of Kehlani. Okay?

That stretch where you have two traffic lights. This is where these people hang out. And if you come to our area, our neighborhood around six, seven, eight, 09:00 at night, this is this is the time to go back and forth, back and forth with this loud music. So, what I'm saying is where you have the complaints is where you focus the enforcement. For instance, I'll bet you the police department has has received a lot of complaints for this area.

So if I were the the police department, what I would do is I would assign, some of my officers to watch that area for a certain period of time and they will see. They will see and they will hear the violations. So like I'm saying, these things need to be planned out specifically. And once the word gets around that people are actually being arrested and penalized for this behavior, you're going to see that behavior start to drop. And so, it's not going to drop if you do nothing.

So, you have to do something. And so, what I'm saying is and I'm pretty sure the police department has already, mister Okamoto, I'm not sure, but I I would I wouldn't be surprised if you guys received a lot of complaints about the area I'm talking about because in the last few nights, we haven't heard the music. But so what I'm saying is if you put your you'll get your result where you put the your attention. If you put your attention in the areas that are being know, the people are violating this law, then I think you're gonna be very successful with enforcement. Thank you.

Assistant Okay. Chief, did you want to respond to Charlie?

No. I heard her comments and I just kinda wanna say like, again, this is where we're at as far as like trying to build a better process. You know, going back to council members Cook's comments like, I know that we have issued tickets in the past but then at at this point, the way the ordinance and the laws are written, I think, I remember we'd have to like really articulate why we detected the violations. Again, you know, our windows were up. Yeah, we could clearly hear hear the stereo through the window.

You know, estimated distance from the car and then we could feel the vibrations from from the music. So those are things that that we'd have to put in a citation but then again you know it's not written in any type of ordinance or law. So I don't know. And this is like over twenty twenty five years ago. So I'm not sure if we've ever had successful convictions on on any type of citation like that. But but yeah, no, I I hear, Charlie's comments and and, I'm in agreement with that. But, again, this is why we're here today.

Hello, assistant chief. Before I go to member Paul then, deputy, Dimatos, you mentioned seven to eight cases for noise were those from complaints and from, vehicular sound systems?

Yes. I I specifically, searched by the ordinance and that will be, nine point three six point zero three zero, the prohibited noise.

And those were from car car stereos?

Yes. I I just based on, you know, my review of the ordinance. Yes. It's understanding. It would be from vehicle sound amplification system.

How were those cases reported?

I believe that these were probably from citations issued by the police. There may have been other offenses, traffic offenses that were attached to the noise violation.

Okay. Because the police mentioned that there was no offenses and all this might have been prior to 2024.

So I believe our data is same or similar to police. 2024, we did not have any Okay. Noise control violations.

Okay. Thank you for that. Member Palton, for your second.

Thank you. I think my question is for miss Murakami. I was looking up the state noise ordinance, which says residential areas maximum of 55 decibels during the day and 45 decibels at night. Commercial areas, 60 decibels during the day, 55 at night, and industrial seventy and sixty. And I was wondering, like, would this be in conflict on them?

They said, like, the first you can get a fine on your first offense. It doesn't mention about legal proceedings. And for me, I I wouldn't like to single out one group of people, like, people that like to pound their sounds. We had a dual exhaust muffler in our neighborhood that would go to work at four in the morning. And so everybody in our neighborhood wakes up at four in the morning.

And, so if if we could just make this, you know, kind of in alignment with other noise ordinances that we're not just singling out one loud group of people that would be better? Is is that a possibility, that we connect these penalties to the state noise ordinance? Miss Maracami?

I I would have to look at the the state ordinance also or the state statute. But if there is already a statute addressing it, I don't I think that might be a redundant maybe because they you can or the police may be able to use that state statute maybe, but I would have to look into that further and see. I mean, don't

The state one is more, watery. It seems like, monetary penalties for individuals or businesses that exceed permissible NARS levels, which can range from 100 to 1,000 for first offenses with higher fines for repeat violations. And the legal action is repeated violations may lead to legal proceedings, including court appearances and potential litigation. So, like, we can go more harsh than the state. Right?

It was more specific, think, guys. Oh, more specific. Yeah. But I don't know if he can go higher. Oh. But I have to look into that and see and get back to you on that.

That's why you never sign off on this bill?

Oh, No. It's actually signed off.

Oh, it's signed off?

Yeah. But not with my by me. It's an

Oh, not by you. Yeah. Okay. But then what is what about the conflict with the state whatever you call state ordinances statutes?

Also, I think this is specifically to the the car stereo as opposed to the other statute that was more for the residential. So I think that was a the separation, the difference.

Residential, commercial, and industrial. Wouldn't commercial areas be considered public, though?

Right. But there this is this this specific ordinance talks strictly about the sound application system, which is, I think, what mister Kumagai said was specifically, like, a stereo system.

Yeah. Number two is in the noise ordinance vehicle operation. Loud vehicle noises such as honking, modified exhaust are prohibited, but isn't sound systems vehicle operations as well?

I would have to look at the statute and look into that further. I apologize.

Alrighty then.

Okay. Mahalo Member Pulton. I know Member Ujjin had a follow-up question, but at the end of her first round. She'll remind us. Any other questions, members?

Okay. Oh, member Sugimura, go ahead.

Yes. Based upon the discussion and questions that have come up, I wonder if court counsel can review how this impacts state statutes because that's kind of huge. And then the the Department of Health, the noise ordinance, which would be impacted, I think. But more than that, if we are gonna have to worry about decibels based upon the state statute, then does the police have the equipment they need to measure appropriately? I mean, I think this well, for me, it's bringing up other questions. So I wonder if you wouldn't mind, you know,

helping We got some additional questions for the police department. Remember

I have what, a member what you guys have been talking about for questions. If you guys would like us to send a letter, we can.

Okay. Member Cook, did you have any follow-up questions?

No. Thank you, chair.

And I I know that under number three, a combination of forfeiture and a fine totaling $1,000 That was the third offense. Charlie, that is both the combination of forfeiture and fine, not either or. Right. Right. Okay. Like if they didn't pay the fine, then they would face forfeiture. This is both forfeiture and fine Yes. Okay.

On the third offense.

On the third offense.

Okay. But I can I can work with court counsel and and the prosecutors to to make this more specific and and see how we can make it more effective as well? Because I'm I'm representing my constituents who are many, many people, because we're we have the biggest population in Guadalupe, And this is where most of the offenses take place. I'm sure it happens in Pahia. I'm sure it happens in Makawao and Lahaina, every place else.

But it happens on a regular basis, like, night. This is you know, we complain about fireworks, but that's you know, you expect that fourth of July and, you know, Christmas and New Year's. And, actually, I don't see where the police have become more effective in that area. But this other thing is on a regular basis, like almost every night. They go up and down, up and down and it's as loud as hell.

And I don't think people deserve, you know, that kind of intrusion into their quality of life. So, that's why I'm pretty bound and determined to find something that will work and we'll keep going on it. Thank you.

I agree. It also happens in Hana.

Oh, it does?

Yeah. Where and we know who it is.

Go flat his tires.

No. But but many of the homes are close to the road. So, you know, if they're if they're just pass passing your house, you're, you know, it's it's rattling your your windows to, at your home or or the dogs, the dogs start barking, those types of things. So I would be supportive of, you know, the times, If it's not beyond 10:00 or within neighborhood areas, I mean, I keep telling my nephew, hey, the Kupuna's live right here and you're blasting your sounds and the Kupuna's, We have kupuna's down the road. I try to, you know, regulate myself, but I just certain areas, school zones, you know, I don't know if we can put up signage.

Deputy assistant chief, Okamoto, if if putting up signage to say that this area is regulated for sound or a time where noise is

think that's a good idea. Wouldn't mind organizing a community event that people on one side have no loud music and the other side no kings.

Yeah. Yeah. So I would be supportive of if there are I guess preventative measures in certain areas where neighbors kind of initiate some kind of neighborhood watch.

Yes, I think that's a good idea because then they would be more likely to report incidents.

Other questions that we can follow-up? Member Cook.

Thank you, Chair. I just want to make a comment and sort of encouraging. It's probably not a whole lot of people. And so if we can craft legislation and provide the structure that the MPD and prosecutors need. Fortunately, this isn't a rampant island wide problem, but it is a big nuisance if we can get people to tone it down.

So just thanks for bringing this forward. And I don't know, I hope that the police department and the prosecutors can help enhance making this more, I'd say, user friendly for you folks. Thank you, chair. Member Bolton.

Thank you. If my community's problem is loud mufflers, could I just, write a 9.36 o three o amendment and say, permit the operation of any sound amplification system, including, aftermarket mufflers And then whatever you guys, penalize for the vehicle, like, guys who pound sounds would also apply for loud mufflers on. And then would motorcycles be considered vehicles

and scooters?

Corp counsel or a lawyer? Any lawyer?

No. Yeah. So I think that change could be made by, adding mufflers or whatever language is appropriate to the sound amplification system definition. Okay. And I think that would address the concern. Great. Thank you so much.

Okay, members. For our resource, we do have Major Ogata. Is there any closing remarks you'd like to provide the committee before we adjourn?

I just wanted to offer for the committee for mufflers is actually in the HRS section Hawaii revised statute section two ninety one twenty four that's for motorcycles and mopeds and also two ninety one twenty four point five which deals with vehicles. I just wanted to try and offer that to you all because yeah, this the other ordinance that's used for sound that you folks are looking at right now tends to be solely for reproduced music. So that's kind of why mufflers is handled in a separate area. I hope that clarifies just a little. Thank you all.

That's all. Thank you. Okay. Mahalo, Major Okata. Assistant Chief, Okamoto, any closing remarks?

No. I just thank you to everybody for working on this together.

Okay. And then Deputy Demantos, Mr. Komagay.

So thank you for your input, comments, questions. My office looks forward to working with everyone to address this concern and issue.

Okay. Mahalo for being here everyone. Members, any objections to deferring this item so we can continue the discussion?

Okay.

Thank you. Staff, is there anything else we should address?

No, there is nothing else outstanding, Chair.

Thank you. Mahalo members for this discussion today and this concludes today's water authority social services and parks committee meeting. The time now is 11:25 and this meeting is adjourned.