16 Water Resources Committee - Regular Meeting

Go.

Thank you, members and community. We just had a quick technical issue, and now that's resolved, we're gonna move on. Members, in accordance with the Sunshine Law, if you're not in the council chambers, please identify by name who, if anyone is in the room, vehicle, or workspace with you. Minors do not need to be identified. Also, please see the last page on the agenda for information on meeting connectivity, and remember to silence all cell phones. Good morning, everyone. I look forward to chairing a productive meeting today. I'm Gabe Johnson, your committee chair. Also joining us today is Vice Chair Sein Sinenci.

Aloha, Council Member. Aloha, Kaheyaka, and good morning, Chair. Happy to be here, and no testifiers in HANA.

Okay, thank you. Good morning. Moving on, we got Committee Member Kanue Batangan. Aloha, Council Member.

Aloha, Kaheyaka Kako.

Aloha. And then from the district office, we have committee member Tom Cook. Aloha, council member.

Good morning, all.

Good morning. We have, is anybody with you, council member Cook? And do you have any testifiers? No. Okay, great. We have council chair Alice Lee. She's going to give us an update on our puppies.

Yeah, they're running around like crazy, and I have my little cat with me, no human beings in my office at this time. I want to say bon dia. Bon dia is in Portuguese. Good morning, and aloha to you, Chair, and everyone. Thank you.

Bon dia, Chair, and let's move on to Committee Member Tamara Paulton.

Aloha kakahiaka, I'm Momjia Kako, streaming live and direct from the council chambers. I was gonna testify at the Cultural Resource Commission on item B1, so I may step away at a moment.

that's that's thanks for informing us and then of course committee member no ilani who had jizzes will be joining us soon uh... next we have uh... now and i'm very voting members always welcome that's comes from a role as ran into comes from cc mara from the administration we have the department transportation director mark takamori he's here with us in the chambers from the department corporation council we also have in the chambers with us uh... deputy corporation council Reif-Snyder. And without objection, I'll designate our administrative personnel as resources under Rule 18A of the Council. Rules of the Council. Do their subject matter expertise relate to the matters on this agenda? Any objections, members? Okay, and let's move forward. On the committee staff, we have the ADEPT committee staff with us this morning. Good morning, everyone. Today's agenda is one item, and thank you all for being here. It is Bill 95-2026, Promoting Maui Bus Ridership and Expanding the Fare Free Bus Pass Program, ADEPT 9. As this is the only item on today's agenda, I will take testimony after receiving opening comments from the department. Members, I do intend to take legislative action on this bill today. New fares included in the fiscal year 2027 budget became effective yesterday. Bill 95 will codify these fares. I drafted this bill with the administration to promote Maui bus ridership and to advance a climate action and resiliency plan directive to reduce residents' and visitors' dependence on single-passenger vehicles. It does this by expanding eligibility for the Fare Free Bus Pass program to allow students of any age a budget initiative I propose and the administration's budget initiative to allow Maui County employees to ride the Maui Bus Fixed Routes for free. It further expands the eligibility criteria to 300% of the poverty threshold from 200%. This will support more of our community struggling with increased fuel costs and helps people facing the benefits cliff who are just cut off from being eligible for SNAP. It also authorizes the Director of Transportation to suspend enforcement affairs to encourage bus ridership during special events or emergency closures for no more than 14 calendar days total in a fiscal year. For example, this could be considered during the county fair, promotion of new bus routes, and other special events or promotional days. The City and County of Honolulu already allows similar fare suspensions for promotional and demonstration purposes. It successfully used their program to increase ridership, promote rail service, and support the public during high demand times such as the first week of University of Hawaii classes. In the spirit of collaboration, a 14-day notice will be given to the county's council prior to a fair suspension, unless impractical due to a disaster of some type of emergency and transit disruption. Anything over a total of 14 days during a fiscal year would be approved by council via resolution. I want to thank the Department of Transportation for working with me and happy to have them with us today to share any comments they have on this bill. So Director Takamori, thank you again for being here this morning. Please share anything you would like to about Bill 95-2026 with this committee. The floor is yours.

Good morning, Committee Chair Johnson and committee members. I'm Mark Takamori, Director for the County Transportation Department. Thank you for having me this morning. The department wants to thank the Chair and his staff for introducing this concept and working closely with us to refine Bill 95. We are fully aligned with the core vision here, promoting the Maui bus ridership, making transit more accessible, and advancing our climate action goals by encouraging choice riders to leave their cars at home. Essentially, this bill will allow the department to operationally suspend the enforcement affairs for not more than 14 days in a fiscal year. By working together on this language, it gives the department the flexibility to explore different ridership initiatives, giving us opportunity to consider potential examples down the road, like free transit during the Maui County Fair. Try transit day Earth Day and or other targeted campaigns Should you have any questions? I'll be here to answer them. Thank you.

Oh Thank you. Nice it to the point director. Thank you so much. We're gonna move on to testimony members staff Are there any testifiers?

Thank you, Chair. There's currently no one signed up to testify. However, if anyone would like to testify, please approach the testifier's podium now or raise your hand on teams using the raise my hand function. Would you like me to do the last call, Chair? Sure, please. Thank you. This will be a last call for testimony. Please, once again, raise your hand on teams or approach the testimony podium if you'd like to testify. Last call here. Three, two, one. Chair, seeing none, no one would like to testify.

Thank you so much. Members seeing there's no one else, no one else or no one wishing to testify. If there's no objections down, I'll close public testimony. Okay.

No objections.

Thank you. We'll jump into deliberations now. Uh, I propose three minutes per council member for each round of discussion and we'll start with, uh, vice chair Sinensi, followed by council member, uh, cook, followed by chair Lee, followed by council member Paulton, followed by council member Tongan and myself. And of course, non-voting committee members are always welcome. So committee vice chair Sinansi, do you have any, the time is yours.

Mahalo chair, I'm supportive. I just had a question for the director. Should one of these events we consider, do we have the bus capacity? for how large an event can we entertain? Director?

Chair, thank you. Thank you for the question, Member Sun. And for the department, I guess we, as we roll out this program, I think we're gonna really learn to see what types of events ridership gain we will see during these types of events. And so I think we will have to then readjust. I think as we roll it out, it will be utilizing our current buses on the bus route. We wouldn't increase frequency or anything during that time, just basically suspending the collection of fares because of a special event. And then with the data we collect, we can determine the success of the program based on the ridership gained from these special events.

Okay.

Mahalo for that, Director. Chair, I'm generally supportive. I know you've been a proponent for buses and for free or increased ridership on our county buses. So I think as we go into this long weekend where millions of people are going to be traveling and considering some of the higher gas prices, this is something that will be positive for our community. Thank you.

Well said, Vice Chair. Let's move on to Council Member Cook, followed by Chair Lee.

Thank you, Chair. So good morning, Director. Is there additional buses or drivers available to adapt so that we can maintain the existing routes and possibly accommodate the scheduling of events?

Director? Thank you for the question, Member Cook. Typically, on any given day, we do have backup drivers to be available. Usually, those drivers are available should there be any breakdowns where we have to send out additional buses to get routes back on the road. I think if we were to have these type of events where we would have a lot more ridership. I think we'll have to have a bigger discussion within the department so we can plan with our contractors so we're not caught off guard in terms of the demand.

Okay, thank you, Director. So there's currently some elasticity for this, and then you basically, we would grow and adapt as you get more data.

Director?

Yes, that would be correct. Okay. Thank you, Chair. That's my question.

Okay. Thank you, Council Member Cook. Let me recognize Council Member Uhajins, who has joined us today. Welcome, and good morning, Council Member.

Good morning. Excuse me. Good morning, Chair. Good morning, everyone. I'm at my private residence, and I have two of my boys here with me as well. Thank you.

Okay. We're doing just three minutes per member going down the line, and I'll come to you after Council Member Batangan, if that's okay with you. Okay, let's move on to Chair Lee followed by Council Member Paulton.

Thank you. Good morning, Mark. What is your total budget?

Director?

Thank you for the question, Council Chair Lee. I believe, I don't have the total figure written down, but I believe it's around $27 million.

Okay. And then, um, what's the estimated cost of this new program director?

So looking at our, our, if we were to break it down to suspending collection affairs on a daily basis, a daily calculation, it comes out to be where, um, based on, the average that we calculated for the end of this past fiscal year, we don't have all the numbers yet, but based on averaging the last couple months of revenue, based on previous months of the fiscal year, we're looking at $2,806 per day average that we would not be collecting on a daily basis.

Okay. And you operate seven days a week, right?

Yes, that is correct.

Okay. And so can you tell us what have the trends been lately? uh more visitors going on the bus uh more children more adults more what what have been the latest trends director thank you

So we are anticipating an increase over the prior fiscal year, but I believe our last calculation was between 2% or 3% increase. Overall, we have seen a slight increase in people that are riding commuters. We are seeing an increase in people riding paratransit as well as on the fixed route. um i don't have the data broken down specifically in terms of for the for the fixed route system we basically just look at who's boarding free and who's boarding as a paid customer we don't break it down via um students um and seniors and okay the difference so my final question is um how much of the highway fund uh is contributed to your program director 27 million I don't have that number with me, but I believe when we did the calculation earlier, I think it was like 13%. 13%.

Yes. So other, most of your money comes from what, general fund or grants?

Director. Sorry, to clarify, 13% out of the highway fund funds the public transit program. So we are funded by the highway fund, but out of the total allocation of the highway fund, the DOT department pulls 13% for the public transit program.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, Chair Lee. Let's move on to Council Member Paulton, followed by Council Member Patonga.

Thank you, Chair. I wanted to start off by saying I fully support the bill. But following up on what Chair Lee was saying, the 14 days amounts to roughly maybe $40,000, a little bit less. And I would be supportive of expanding the whole fare-free program. to 100% of all riders because there's so much benefits in terms of getting extra cars off the road, in terms of climate change initiatives, in terms of social helping. But I think the main obstacle to being able to do that is figuring out how to pay for that. And I don't think it can just come only from the highway funds because we need those monies to fix the roads and things like that. Is there any opportunity to tap into those other pots of money that assist in those other benefits, like maybe some money from EPNS for the part that supports the CARP, maybe some money from for the part that supports human services. And then the other question I had was about promotion of it. When I first posted about county workers free, all students free, somebody was like, what about seniors? And I was like, that's been the way it is for a bit now. And so I think we're still not reaching everybody. one thing i've seen uh recently that i think reached a lot of people is um a former reporter susan hollis rode the bus for free the first time and she like gave like a little report on it and a lot of people um engaged in that post and she doesn't have choke engagement on social media but that one really struck it so i was wondering like Do you have any ideas to partner with organizations like Personnel or MU or other people to maybe livestream their experience riding the bus for free or anything like that? Or use it as a promotion to get more vacancies filled?

Director? Thank you for the questions and comments, Member Poulton. Actually, those are really good comments and I think that is... We were notified of the social media post of Susan Hallison. We're very happy to see her comments. She did have really good comments on what worked and what things that she didn't really... Appreciate as much. Right, but she really didn't have much comments on those. Maybe it was people need to be informed on certain things based on how we operate the service. It seems as though maybe that's what we need to do. Maybe we need to contact these organizations that you mentioned, and maybe we just have to say, let's go take a ride and talk story about it. And then if they have a following, then they can post their comments, right? And so, I mean, I think that was a nice surprise to hear about her experience on the bus.

I'll try and livestream my first fare free experience and I probably would go to like Kaanapali because parking and like that and I could say like, oh look, I don't have to pay for parking and then fare free ride to Whaler's Village, check out even, I think they drop off at Sands of Kahana and they pick up at Whaler's Village. So the Peely Market, all the things. Sephora.

Okay, and then we'll move, there's a couple other questions I'll follow up on that, Director, but we'll move on to Council Member Butongan, and then we'll move to Council Member Uhuhajit. Council Member Butongan.

Thank you, Chair. I'll start off by saying I am also supportive of the proposal, but I do disagree with some of the discussion that's come up so far, because I don't think the biggest impediment to public ridership of our transit system is the cost. Through my experience, ridership increases when there's enough frequency and there's enough reach from the system, right? Because a free bus that takes forever to get anywhere or may not go where you want to go probably won't reduce traffic. Another big component of that is parking on the other end. Is it convenient to take a single occupancy vehicle from point A to point B? And that has a big impact impact on public transit ridership as well. So this is a component of it, and I just wanted to bring into the discussion what data I had found through my previous roles. Specifically related to this, I do have some questions. I wasn't as concerned on the budget impact to waiving fares for those 14 days. I did have a question on what the increase in the fare-free program going from 200% ALIS to 300% ALIS would do to your operations, especially since this is now being taken up on the first day of the new fiscal year. So I don't wanna mess with your operations so soon after we set your budget.

Sure, Director, but it's the poverty guidelines, not the ALIS. Okay, or the poverty guidelines.

Director? Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the question, Member Patangan. I guess as we kind of move, if this is moving forward, we would have to have a updated conversation with MEO on the application process because they are the ones that are that helps us process the different applications for the limited income qualifications, as well as persons with disability fixed route pass. And so, I can't say I know what the full ramifications of going from 200 to 300%, but... Okay.

okay yeah and then i guess this is a question for chair and corporation council i'm not clear from the text whether or not the um suspension affairs is for the system as a whole because we set our rates and fees system-wide or if the department would have the ability to suspend fair for specific routes And I bring this up because that was one of the issues I ran into post-wildfires. I didn't have a mechanism to only suspend fares for those routes we were using to evacuate people from West Maui, so I had to suspend everything system-wide. And I was not clear what the proposal allows for or what the intent of the author was. I would appreciate a response either this round or I'm happy to wait for the next round, but I did want to flag that for you.

Sure. I would say hopefully it's for the routes, but if Corporation Council has anything to add to that, that would be my intent.

Deputy Regulars were signed off on this one, so I'm just looking at it now, but I do think it's open enough to where it could be construed as either or, so if there needs to be clarification added one way or the other, we could definitely discuss that.

I like either or, it gives the flexibility. Okay, let's move on to Council Member Uhl-Hodgins.

Thank you, Chair. I really don't have too many questions. Majority of my questions were asked and answered. I know Member Paulton was speaking directly to me when she said Sephora, so I'm happy that this is going to be all-encompassing. But other than that, happy to support. Thank you.

Okay, great. Um, and for my, my round, um, you know, director, one of the things we asked about, uh, was how do we make buses just free, you know, for everyone? We were, we're getting it narrow. We should maybe write a list of who has to pay because we have so many people who are, uh, we're trying to give them the free fare pass. So can you maybe elaborate on why we couldn't just do it because how it interacts with federal funds and all the things that we discussed earlier?

Yes, thank you for the question. Essentially, because we receive federal funds, any time you make changes on the fixed route side, the corresponding ADA paratransit service also has to have similar fares. So if you charge, I guess, you at least charge two dollars for boarding on the fixed route side then on the paratransit side you have you can't charge i guess you can charge up to double but right now we charge two dollars for boarding um on the paratransit side if if you were to want to make fixed route free then that would also make um paratransit free um part of the part of the issue if there is a future discussion of what that may look like, I think a larger discussion should be had by this body because of the fact that typically on the fixed art side, the more people that write it because the system is running on a fixed time schedule, the more people that get on the bus, the cheaper it becomes per passenger riding. If you make paratransit side, the more people that ride the bus, the more buses are gonna be needed, the more drivers are gonna be needed because there are regulations in terms of like paratransit riders can't be on a route or on a ride for longer than 90 minutes. So there's different guidelines that we have to follow on the paratransit side. So typically on the paratransit side, if you are being picked up and dropped off, it's a shared ride system but typically you would have at least two people riding with you on the bus, but any more than that, you're not going to be able to keep the schedule. So then you're going to have to add more buses and that adds more costs. And so I think part of this discussion, if you were to want to consider that the body should have a larger discussion on being okay with that type of change.

Yeah, I think that we're not there yet. It seems. And so as we move forward and this rolls out, then we can get into the discussion on what that actually means to make it free because we have to include the paratransit. So I hear you where you come from, but today we're talking about it today's agenda. And as we, as this rolls out, we'll talk about that moving forward. I'll be real quick here cause I heard the time just a FYI. The, Honolulu did this you know they have their handy bus and handy van promotion and when they did it for the free free days they had a 12% increase from the previous week they did and then 25 increase from the same week of the previous year so there wasn't a small increase I'd say 25% is a pretty good increase of ridership so the handy van ridership did rise about 18% for the free period and so I think it will increase some and I hear what comes from a baton on saying is frequency that's I hear that all time waiting for a bus for a whole hour does put people off but when you think of the cost it takes for people to own a car put insurance in it put gas in it sometimes those costs just take it off the table and I will wait 45 minutes for the next bus that's just how some people are living I heard my time. Maybe we have a second round with a raise of hands. Does anybody have a second round with a raised hand? We do have one from Council Member Batonga. Thank you, Chair.

Can I just ask about the triggers for the suspensions? So unless impractical, you gotta give notice unless impractical to do so because of a disaster or emergency transit disruption. Does the disaster require like a declaration of any sort and then what constitutes an emergency transit disruption?

Yeah. Um, let's ask corporation council on that because, um, usually, uh, you know, disaster has to be declared, but, uh, maybe corporation council can opine on that.

Yeah. Um, I mean, I'd have to look into it more to see what the context is. If it sort of, um, enumerates like who would have authority to generally would be mayor or governor. So, um, there's nothing in here that says there has to be an official declaration. Um, So I'm not quite sure if it's just up to director or if it's up to higher authority, so. Director, do you have anything to add to that?

Yes, thank you. I would say that any time we're gonna be considering if this does move forward, it would be in collaboration with the managing director and mayor. So they would be fully aware of what we're up to and would be approving of those possible dates. In terms of an emergency, I think it's the same thing. I think they would be fully aware of me requiring requesting to suspend the collection of fairs if there is, let's say, a tsunami on its way and whatnot.

Since this provision has to do with notification to council, can I ask that you also collaborate with the council?

Are you asking to request him to do that? Yes. So, Director Takamori, when you want to notify us, you would send an official letter to the chair of the council? Is that the path?

Yes, it would be a letter written through the mayor's office to council chair, not if notifying the council.

Okay. But council member Tongan, is that satisfactory?

Yes. And then last question was for you, chair. What was the rationale behind, um, deleting the, The current code allows for the director or the director's designee to be doing a lot of the actions in section 11.03.010. How come you took out the designee portion? Because normally that means the deputy.

Right. Director Takamori, you want to add to that? Let me find where that is.

That's on page three of the bill. And I think when I was your deputy, we used that provision to allow MEO to do some of the notifications since they're the one handling the fare-free certification.

It came from the administration on why, so maybe Director Tuckermore can speak to that, but...

Okay, thank you for that. I mean, based on your comments, I would say that there's probably a good reason that it was included previously and now it's being removed. So I would, if possible, it may make sense to continue to include the director's designee because we do, I guess just for the public's awareness, MEO is the one that does, we do allow MEO to handle the processing of the applications and if there are any denials, they do ask the applicant for more information and then they will review and possibly approve the application. So if, by removing the oral director's dice of the knee, if that then makes it where we can't allow MEO to continue to do the application process, then that might hinder the program. So we may wanna consider keeping it in.

Okay, you stand by, you wanna keep it in there? Okay, Council Member Batangan, we'll go to you.

I mean, I'll defer to the department. If that's the preference of the director, then I would make a motion to keep that phrase in throughout the text. So 11.03.015, I would keep, sorry, both sections, under the fare-free structure and under the fare-free bus program.

I'm going to turn this over to Ms Moniz to add a little bit of information to us. Ms Moniz, you have anything to add?

Thank you, Chair. Yeah, it's just a drafting issue. In section 1.04, 0.020D of the code, acts by a subordinate officer when any provision in this code requires an act to be done, which may by law as well be done by a subordinate officer as by the superior officer, such requirement shall be construed to include all such acts when done by an authorized subordinate.

Correct. It's assumed that. Okay.

if for some reason Director Takamori is out, his designee will step up. So we have that, it's just a drafting issue. But it's your preference, Chair, if you prefer to leave it in, we would recommend leaving it out for drafting and clarity purposes.

Given the explanation, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, let's keep it in. Yeah, okay. Any other hands raised? Otherwise, I can call for the question. Seeing none, okay. The Chair will entertain a motion to recommend passage of Bill 95-2026 on first reading, including any non-substantive revisions. So moved. Moved by Council Member Sinensi, seconded by Council Member Tongan. Members, any discussion? I don't see any hands. It's pretty basic. I think we're all on the up and up here, so. Okay, all those in favor of the motion on the floor, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Staff, will you do the call?

Chair, that's seven ayes, no nos, motion carries.

Okay, members, I really appreciate everybody working together on this, and Director Takamori, thank you so much for being here with us today, and that takes us to the end of the agenda, members. The time is now 9.38, and the ADEPT Committee is adjourned. Good job, everybody.