16 Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Budget Finance and Economic Development Committee. Today is May 19 and it is now 09:10. Sorry for the delay. We're having some problems connecting with Akako, but I understand it's been repaired or fixed.

This is our budget have made very with with And in the with the Sunshine Law. As a reminder, when your name is called, if you're not in the chambers, please do address who is with you in your room, vehicle or workspace with you today and minors do not need to be identified. Good morning, Vice Chair Batangen.

Good morning, Chair.

Good morning, Member Cook.

Good morning, Chair.

Good morning, Gabe Johnson. Welcome back from Japan.

Good morning, Council members, community members. There's no testifiers at the Lanai district office and I'm here and

ready to work

in Ohio Gozaimasu. Chair.

Member Cook.

Thank you. I apologize. The key office is closed today because our aide is on a meeting and a conference. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Member Paulton.

Streaming live and direct from Halei Nui Hilo. It's a semi public facility with, out the visiting hours. So I'm not gonna say all the nurses and aides that come in and out and mom's roommate and like that because I don't know all their names.

Give our best to your mother.

Good member Oh, chair. Yes. I might have to step away at 09:30 for other meeting, but I'll I'll be monitoring.

Okay. Thank you very much. Member Rollins Fernandez will be joining us. Member Senensi, good morning. Nice to see you here.

Hello.

Hello. Thought thought I I got got to to you. You. Sorry, Sorry, Chair. Chair Lee. Chair Lee with a bright star next to it. Good Thank

you. And I'd like to also send my aloha to from all of us Mildred Palton. Thank

you. You. Assisting us with today's meeting are our office of counsel services staff. Appreciate you a lot And our invited resource persons from the administrations include the Budget Director, Director of Finance, Director of OEB Resources, Deputy Director of Public Works on call virtually, Economic Development Director on call virtually, Deputy Director of Ag, Deputy Director of Environmental Management and Deputy Corp. Council Wigglesworth.

Please see the last page of the agenda today for meeting connectivity. Today we have four items on our agenda, one, two, three, five items on our agenda. The first one is as they are situated here is Bill 57, Bill seventy, twenty twenty six and eighty, twenty twenty six relating to the Halal of OEV Arts, BFED 56 Bill 60 nine-twenty 26 amending Section 3.3619 Hawaii County Code, Maui County Code regarding upfront disbursements and installment payments for grant recipients. BFED 59, Bill 83, twenty twenty six amending the fiscal year budget, Department of Environmental Management, Sewer Fund and Appendix A Part two, Open Space, Natural Resources, Cultural Resources and Scenic Views Preservation Fund, Bill 46, B Fed 46, Bill 100 two-twenty '26 amending the fiscal year twenty six budget, Appendix A Part two, open space, natural resources, cultural resources and scenic views preservation fund and resolutions 20 five-fifty three authorizing the acquisition of real property located at 104A Lower Waihi Beach Road, Wailuka, Kauaihi Bay. Bill BFED 55 Bill 180 one-twenty 25 increasing the amount of home and long term rental exemptions from real property tax.

Those are the things on the agenda. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to open it up for public testimony. Do we have people signed up to testify? We do. Okay.

So if you are I'm going to take testimony before we take up all these items. And so if you are a testifier, please do sign up in the lobby. Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via the e comment link at mauicounty.us/agendas as well. Under the Sunshine Law, the chair will receive oral testimony for agenda items at the beginning of the meeting and as the item is called up. For individuals wishing to testify via Teams, please name, raise your hands clicking on the raise your hand button.

If calling in, please follow the prompts via phone, star five to raise and lower your hand and star six to mute and unmute. Staff will add names to the list in the order testifiers sign up and raise their hands. For those on Teams, staff will lower your hand once your name is added and staff will then call the name you're logged in under the last four digits of your phone number when it is your time to testify. At this time, will also enable your microphone and video. Please enable ensure your name appears on Microsoft Teams as the name you with progress the We very of Directors of of of view the meeting on a Kaku fifty three Facebook Live or mauicounty.us/agendas.

We will do our best to take each person up in an orderly fashion. We will now call on testifiers wishing to testify at the beginning of the meeting. Please call the testifier, please.

Thank you, chair. The first testifier is Scottie Miller to be followed by Travis Aaron Leggett.

Good morning. Good morning. Morning.

Good morning, chair and council members. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Sorry. I said working right now. I gotta go back to work, so thank you for allowing me hold on one second. I know my time is running. Aloha. By the way, aloha.

My name is Scottie Miller, and my Ohana resides from Wai'ehu. I'm just opposing I'm gonna oppose it opposing this bill one zero two with the accusation of, you know, of the shoreline on Waihiu by the county. But, anyway, I just see it speak my mind and, you know, it's kinda hard for me, but just gathering my thoughts because why it was a, you know, carries a cultural memory, good practices, fishing knowledge, family history. Just want to say that. Mahalo for your time and thank you so much.

I guess I can get back to work here. Any questions?

You. Any questions for the testifier? I see none. Thank you very much. You do? Remember Oh,

Alongo, nice to see you. Thank you so much for testifying. I know you guys have come out before because we've discussed this before. Mhmm. And I think right now, we're trying to figure out what to do because the church wants to sell it. And if it's not to us, then it might be to somebody else. How do you feel about that?

No. I just wanted to know to find out that I mean, how is the church, you know, how did they acquire that man? Sure. Sure. They are the true, you know, true owners of that place.

I don't disagree with that. But if they do sell it, what do you think would happen if they were to sell it to somebody else that's not the county? Don't

know.

I cannot answer that one.

Okay.

It's a struggle all over the islands.

I know.

I cannot go face. Yeah. And I don't know. You see no places that where you come from. Yeah.

Mhmm.

I mean, I can understand the kind of other places like, you the you whole island is the same way.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you

for the question. Hope I answered them right.

You. No. Right is right. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Any more questions? Oh, Member Polton has a question for you.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Miller. Last time they were saying that they were talking to the church about doing the right thing. I was wondering if he had any knowledge if that had progressed at all.

No. I don't have any idea.

Oh, okay.

It's the Mormon church. Yeah? You're talking about? Mhmm. No.

Yeah. At a Mormon church, I think miss Johnson was a member, and she said that she was talking. So I I just was wondering if you had any update on that.

No. No. I don't. Sorry.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

You very much. Any more questions? Seeing none. Thank you very much for testifying. Next testifier please.

The next testifier is Travis Aaron Leggett to be followed by Dean Mayo.

Mr. Leggett.

Morning, Chair and members. I just want to congratulate you for navigating that budget season. It's very so impressive to see how hard you work and the duration. I just want to say thank you. I just you know, I have this effort where I am engaging in an organized strategic effort to, this really was a response to uncle Bobby's testimony that people who grow food know what to do. It's just a matter of having enough currency

to actually Can have the I interrupt you? What item are you testifying on?

Oh, thank you so much, chair. 83, bill 83, I'm proposing a new section three, which I have provided in the written, comments. And it is just a very simple legal framework that routes philanthropic funding to DEM to 10 focus areas to stabilize. I called the M LAST, Maui Living Aina Sustainability Trust. It's just a very subtle Section to a bill that's not really designed for this and it just creates a plug in for your RV to plug into this grid of all the zeros and ones out there and maybe there's someone that would swipe right on just investing a lot into DEM.

They could disperse it to all these living life support systems because I think Maui is a very good investment. This is on the scale of, one data center. You can you know, those zeros and ones have to be watered there too. So I would say you know the y y and Maui just a very I know this bill is not designed for that. This is a legislative body and you can write the code as you wish to subtle amendment and it just allows a place for people to invest in Maui through philanthropy and DEM I think is the agency to build this out because the living life support system model and it just takes all those cultural practices that a lot of Hawaiian women and others have stored for a long time and it just scales them up through philanthropy and you know this model could be expanded to like a full threat philanthropy governance.

You know if they so choose I tried to design it to be. Very flexible. Could create a position called the herme not the mayor and it just takes all this practices and just fully funds them. You could do stuff like double every salary, double every budget. And really with the inflation that we're looking at, people like, yeah, that would get me back to where I was used used to be, double my salary.

I know it's out of the box thinking, but, you know, if you can invest that much in a data center, you know, the one in Utah is supposed to increase the overnight temperature by 20 degrees statewide forever or invest in the idea of Maui. So thank you so much, and have a great day. I know this isn't exactly what it's meant to do, but I just want introduce other ideas that are possible. I know this program won't pass today, but I just want to put it out there as an idea. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions? Seeing none. Thank you very much for testifying. Testifier, please, aloha.

Testifier is Dane Mayo to be followed by La la Johnson.

Hello chair and My name is Dane Mayo. I'm here again regarding the Waihiu property connected to my family for generations. At the last meeting, I was asked to continue reviewing and connecting our family historical chain of title records. Since then, I spent countless hours going through the old deeds and Hawaiian language documents, conveyances and historical land records, continuing connecting our family and historical property. I want to be honest and take this time to say that it's a process right now, and it's just mainly me and my girlfriend conducting research with formal and legal without formal or legal title training.

However, even with the work completed so far, I have already located deeds and historical conveniences connected to our families that predates the 1938 chain currently being relied upon. I also listened carefully to the prior committee discussion where the questions were raised regarding how the title passed before Welugu Sugar Company. And it was acknowledged fully researching that the early historical chain of title could take months or even years. To me, that confirms that there is still unresolved historical title questions surrounding this property. Because of that, I respectfully do not believe the county should move forward with spending public funds to purchase this property while those issues are still active and being researched and investigated.

This fight over our family land did not start with me. My papa spent years fighting in the courts and trying to protect what he believed strongly to our family before he was passed away earlier this year. And now, even after losing him, the fight still continues. My daughter is here with me today, and she is only one years old, but she she grows up connecting to this Ainu, going to the beach, swimming in the rivers, picking up rocks, and learning to love this place the same way we did growing up. I don't want her generation to spend their lives still fighting over this land the way my papa had to.

I just want the true the truth and fully investigated before these decisions are made that could affect our our family generations to come. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you very much. Any questions for the testifier? Member Oo Hodgins.

Thank you, chair. I'm just wondering if you would like to be a resource when the item comes up because I don't necessarily have any clarifying questions.

Thank you. You. Would you be available?

Yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Any more questions for the testifier? We'll wait on that. Thank you. Next testifier please.

Thank you chair. The next is La la Johnson to be followed by Kahala Johnson.

And council members. Olalal Johnson Koinoa from Wai'ehu. I come here respectfully. I urge the council to seriously consider what happens after the county of cars lands such as 104a Beach Road under bill 102. The public is repeatedly told that these appropriations protect land but what is often left unsaid is that the actual burden of caring for these places continues to fall on the shoulders of the community, especially the Kuleana families and lineal descendants who already Malama these lands without compensation recognition or institutional support.

If the county deletes the original 1,300,000 appropriation tied to the Lahaina property and only spends approximately 500,000 on the parcel, the remaining 800,000 does not disappear. It remains within the open space, natural resources, cultural resource and scenic views preservation fund to be used for future acquisition elsewhere. That means the county retains the purchasing power to acquire more land but the people already protecting the land receive no direct support to continue doing the work. This reveals a deeper systemic issue within the county's approach to preservation. The fund prioritizes acquisition but not stewardship.

Kuleana families clear brush, remove invasive species, maintain access, restore Hawaii, monitor shoreline conditions and protect cultural sites with their own labor, tools, fuel and time. Yet when a government acquires these lands, there is often no dedicated management plan, no maintenance funding and no direct support for the very people who have sustained these places for generations. Historically, this creates a dangerous cycle. The county acquires land in the name of preservation, but without long term stewardship infrastructure, these lands can fall into neglect. Invasive species spread, fire risk increase, access becomes restricted or unclear, and once again community members are left doing the work voluntarily except now on county owned property.

If this acquisition proceeds, the community deserves more than symbolic preservation language. There must be a transparent long term stewardship plan, meaningful consultation with linear descendants and neighboring families, consideration of formal stewardship or co management agreements and actual investment in community based malama, not just acquisition itself. Protecting land without supporting the people who care for it is incomplete preservation. Land does not stay healthy because government owns it. Land stays healthy because people, Kuleana families maintain relationships with it every single day.

Mahalo for this opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Anyone have questions?

Shirley. Did you submit your testimony to the council? No. If not, can we have a copy? Because you have some really good ideas there. Thank you. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Any other questions? Seeing none. Mahalo. Appreciate it. Next testifier please.

Thank you chair. The next testifier is Kahala Johnson to be followed by Kane Li'i.

Aloha chair and council members. My name is Kahala Johnson. I'm here today to, demand referral, deferral of bill one zero two and the rejection of its attached resolution pending a facilitated good faith meeting with our Ohana before any future hearings occur. Content acquisition of a property using public funds should not move faster than its commitment to due diligence and verification. Bill one zero two raises some serious concerns regarding due diligence and public financial risk.

The public packet, for bill one zero two includes two things I wanted to talk about today. The preliminary title report one and the legal memoranda from corporation counsel concerning liability. The preliminary title report or the PTR tells you what's found during a preliminary investigation, but it doesn't necessarily tell you whether ownership questions have been fully resolved. In contentious land situations common to Hawaii, relying upon a PTR alone creates public risk if decision makers begin treating the preliminary investigation as a definitive ownership determination. And again, county co acquisition of a property using public funds shouldn't move faster than its commitment to due diligence and verification.

And I do wanna note that folks are trying here. Yeah. I'm coming here today to recognize that. In addition to the PTR, I'm also concerned that the legal analysis provided by corporation counsel, is being used to justify moving forward before due diligence has been completed. This legal analysis discusses what could happen if another valid title holder later emerged, which includes litigation exposure, quiet title proceedings, title insurance questions, and financial liability.

So to be clear, this is a recognition on county's part that future ownership disputes could generate quiet title litigation expenses, cost disputes, and finances that will be borne by other taxpayers. I don't want this to be used as a contingency plan. I want this to strengthen due diligence moving forward, because a contingency plan based on uncertainty is not a substitute for due diligence, the taxpayer should not be forced to underwrite unresolved ownership disputes. And then lastly, to conclude, no one's contacted our Ohana, and I know folks are busy coming out of budget season. Spreadsheets probably never want to see another one again.

But, you know, we are willing to talk about this. You know, as Hodgins member Hodgins brought up, there are some options that we have to consider. Our our is committed to dialogue. We are also ready to activate our community defense should calls for due diligence fail. I hope that doesn't come to it. I hope that bill one zero two can be deferred and a facilitated meeting with our can be had so that we can commit ourselves to due diligence moving forward. Mahalo.

Thank you. Member Senensi, Member Wu Hodgins, did I see any other hands up? Member Johnson.

Mahalo kaalo for your testimony this morning. So, you're asking for some discussions with the county?

If possible. I'm not sure what that looks like.

Would that be prior to purchasing it or

Yeah. I mean, you know, know there's timelines and things like that. You folks are so busy with so many things. But if possible, prior I'm not assigning blame for, like, not contacting the family. I recognize Kuleana in this room. But I think it is something that we could discuss.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Member Wu Hutchins.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you so much for your testimony today. Is Auntie your mom?

Yes.

I was I was gonna ask her a question because the last time we had her in here, and then I started writing notes after testimony, she was saying she was gonna reach out to the church to I can ask her during break, but do you know, what's the status of maybe the conversation you folks been having with the church?

With the seller. Yeah. I think that she had reached out to their corporate central in Yeah. Utah. I'm not sure what the feedback was from But, yeah, maybe that's something that can come up later.

I can ask her during break.

Thank you

so much.

Yeah, no worries. Member Johnson.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, Mr. Johnson for your testimony. Clarifying question, you said you wanted to have a meeting with the families before we move forward with this. Do you have a preference of the location where you would want to have this meeting?

I would love you folks coming down to Oahu. To me, we could have it in maybe a neutral place, like a third party space. But other than that, I think most important for me is just having a discussion.

Okay. But you mentioned it would be nice to have it on the parcel? Sure.

Yeah. Weather permitting and yeah.

Okay. Thanks for that. That was my clarifying question.

Thank you. Thank you member.

Thank you. Any other members have questions? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Do you have your testimony that you could give to us? Thank you. Next testifier.

The last individual signed up to testify is Connie Alethi. If they're able to state which item they're testifying on that would be great.

Hello, Can you folks hear me?

Yes. We can hear you. We can hear you.

Hello. My name is Kani. I'm testifying on bill one zero two and resolution 25 dash 53. I'm also testifying for deferral and opposition. I submitted written testimony to all you folks, the corporation counsel, the council members, county clerk mayor's office.

I would suggest you folks, if you haven't had a chance to read it, read it because it does bring out the fact that there is an unclear title on the part of the church. I'm pretty sure as you folks know, the entirety of Wai'ehu is part of Land Commission Award 8559 B to William Luna Lilo. And as far as why EHUs, actually it's part 20 of that land commission award. And in his probate, there is a will and the will is very explicit that the selling of his estates was capped at $25,000 And I know Auntie Jocelyn Costa has brought this up many times. As well on the probate there's also information that Wyeth was under leases during the time of his probate and that those leases didn't expire until after his probate was closed.

Furthermore, there's accounting of all the lands that were sold by his trustees and Wayahou is not one of those. So what that indicates is that Payette was never sold. It was under lease. The lease was returned back to him because that's what happens after a lease expired and it cannot be sold because it's locked by the will. And so the trustees cannot sell by it.

And so there's no indication in the title report from that title guarantee is showing their chain of title to the Nolito's LCA because they cannot because it's it's locked. And so in this whole discussion about purchasing properties, the county does need to do its due diligence and realize that it can't purchase the property because the seller doesn't own it and it can't purchase from

the trustees because the trustees are incapable of selling it. And that's just the reality of community as a state. And so using public tax dollars and public funding to make a purchase that is not a pure title is a major liability. And that's a countrywide that should be a countrywide you know, not just the way, but everything that comes to considers in purchasing lands. If you don't have if they don't have doesn't have to be a title, why is the company budgeting to purchase lands to inherit public title? But that's all I need to just say. Although exhibits are provided for you folks on very clearly in the written testimony. And so if there's any questions let me know.

Thank you very much. Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Next testifier please.

Chair that's all the individuals signed up to testify. If anyone in the audience or teams would like to testify please come up to the mic and begin your testimony or use the raise your hand function on teams and staff will unmute you. Here's a brief countdown. Three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you very much. Members, with your permission, I'm going to close public testimony at the beginning of the meeting and we'll always receive written testimony. Thank you. Thank you. So we're going to the first item.

Is the fourth item on the agenda. So we have a few items before that. So I'm hearing things I'm hearing my agenda in terms of priority for time sensitivity. So the first item is BFED 57 Bill seventy, twenty twenty five and eighty, twenty twenty six relating to the Halal of OEV Arts. Remember this item amends fiscal year twenty six budget by adding 4,000,000 in the bond lapsed bond funding, adding a new capital improvement project appropriation for the Halal of OEB Arts and updates Appendix C accordingly.

Bill 80 is a companion bill bond bill. It amends fiscal year twenty six general obligation bond authorization ordinance to add a $4,000,000 appropriation for the Halal of OEV Arts and adjust the totals accordingly. The transmittals share that the funding would extend consultant contracts and restore project items that had been removed, including over over call

we

about time Shupak, civil engineer for the CIP coordinator, because members you know we don't have a CIP coordinator. Deputy Director Baranee is online available for questions if needed. At this time can we have the presentation about this bill or these bills?

Sure, thank you chair. Good morning. My name is Erin Wade. I'm the deputy managing director. I'm just gonna quickly share the website that shows Halal O'ivi art and to give you a quick refresher of the site, its location, and the content of the site.

They're gonna get me online in just a second. Just as a refresher, this facility is located in Wailuku at the corner of Vineyard And Church Street. It is, a county owned parcel that was part of the Wailuku Municipal parking Lot, as well as a couple of additional lots that were purchased in order to construct both the parking structure as well as the Halau Oui'vi art. Okay. It's about to come up. So close. Okay. The facility itself is about 4,700 47,000 square feet in total. It's a two story structure. It is currently under construction.

The project was bid out, I guess, previously to the planning efforts. We did reach out for congressional direct spending for this facility as well. We received $11,000,000 in congressional direct spending for this facility, so therefore all of the planning efforts also included the federal processes, including Section 106 consultation as well as the NEPA EA. All of that was completed, and the project was bid out for construction. This is the website.

Should anyone be interested in taking a look, this is wailukulive.com backslash hoa. It has the narrative about, the facility. It also has a webcam so that you can see live construction updates and where we're at in terms of construction. So the facility is, going vertical at this stage, and Dan can share a little bit with you about how construction methods changed as we value engineered past post bid. Just to zoom in quickly on the facility itself, it does have Ground floor retail space intended to act as incubator space and support the mission of Halawa EV Arts with culturally integrated and Maui based businesses.

It does have space on the 2nd Floor for, studio and practitioner space. It has a large gathering space that can function both as a performance space as well as a community center. There's a connected kitchen tied to that, and the whole facility is designed to be hurricane rated and function as a shelter as well as our joint information center in the event of an emergency. The as you can see on the Guayluku garage itself, there are photovoltaic panels that are planned that was intended to be part of the operations of the facility and allows us to meet LEED gold certification for the facility. This would be the first in the county to reach that.

And knowing that that is also consistent with the values of the planning for this facility, we were striving for a gold level lead rating. That is part of the consideration today. So I will turn this over in terms of why we have a budget amendment today to Dan to share just the details of the budget itself, and happy to provide any background again as needed. Thank you.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council members. The Cube Deputy Managing Director, Wade. So as she mentioned, the project was bid out in the 2023. The original bid amount came out to 52,700,000 at the time the county, including the correctional direct spending had 46,500,000.

So we had a $6,200,000 overage that we had project. Cost So we we proceeded with the contract with the hopes that we could bring the cost down prior to proceeding with construction. We underwent a value engineering process with the contractor and the many subcontractors in which we were able to achieve the reduction in cost. Some of those reductions included a change of the construction methodology from just to get like slightly slightly technical. Sorry.

We went from what was gonna be a 100% cast in place concrete walls. And the walls you see here are going up now are actually are called tilt up panel walls, which are precast. So we went from the cast in place to kind of a hybrid approach of mostly precast tilt up walls with only a few cast in place walls. There was a change in the roofing material from standing seam metal roof to asphalt shingles. There was a reduction in various architectural features such as elimination of clear story windows, exposed wood beams, a stone masonry veneer and kind of finish touches like stamped concrete in the courtyard area.

Then there was a general reduction in various indoor interior finish items as well. So that brought the cost down to $6,200,000 We were able to proceed with construction. However, there were a few end of project items, which were quoted in the original bid, but could not be included in the contract. And that's bulk of what this budget amendment request is asking to restore. Some of those end of project items include commercial kitchen equipment for the commercial kitchen that's being constructed, telecom data and security infrastructure, a rooftop photovoltaic system, and an audio visual system and acoustic treatments for the event space that's being built on the 2nd Floor.

The amount also includes an allowance for materials and labor cost escalations for the add back items as well as time extensions for the AE and construction management contracts with yeah, that the county has to support the project.

Thank you very much. Anyone else? Director Moly Tao, do you have any comments? We're going to switch out your mic. Okay.

Thank you. Aloha chair. I was just recalling a few years back I was in that back corner sitting there amongst all of the other with my palms sweating, figuring out this is my first time I'm ever gonna be talking in this this particular hale. And it was about the halau of OUV art. And coming up here, I had three minutes to emphasize the importance of this amazing opportunity.

And here I am now continuously working towards uplifting our amazing community. And so, to continuously add to the thought of all the kumu hula that have been there, it all stems from the declaration of hula. And with the guidance of folks like and others, this particular kuleana responsibility drove this discussion of opening a halal of OUV art. And, we're very thankful for, at the time, being a on the other side of it, very grateful and thankful for the discussion. And I thought to myself, oh man, I don't think I'll ever be able to speak in this chamber ever again.

And, Eyenovo, here I am continuously trying to do my best without sweaty palms.

And

so, thank you for the opportunity to see the Halawa of OVR currently where it's being built, and what the amazing efforts it'll be for the community to be able to utilize for hula, for all of the great arts of Hawaii, and to really showcase the best of who we are as Maui Nui, And really that is the Kahua or the foundational platform of Halal OVR. Mahalo chair.

Wow. That's a great story. Thank you very much. Anybody else would like to say something? Okay. So at this time then I'm going to open public testimony again. Do we have any new testifiers?

There's no individual signed up to testify. Would you like me to do a last call?

Yes please.

If anyone would like to testify please come up to the podium or raise your hand on teams. This is final call. The countdown is three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you. I'm going to close public testimony and receive written testimony on this item. Thank you. I'd like to also welcome member Rollins Fernandez. Although I don't see you on my screen, I hear you're on the call in the meeting.

I'm at my private residence, still on Japan time and alone.

You. Someone thank you. Member Ron Fernandez welcome back from Japan also. Someone raised their hand right when I was saying we're closing public testimony so members if you would allow I'd like to hear from that testifier. Please proceed.

Thank you chair. We have one individual online Kanyloa Kamounu. And we've unmuted his microphone, so he'll just have to unmute on his end and begin his testimony.

Hello, Mike. Council, community chair. I thank you for the opportunity to participate. There are mixed feelings on this subject matter due to the advocacy when I was part of Malama Kapani Lu. And my purpose for testifying is basically a reminder that through advocacy, we ask that they not continue to build this area due to knowing that they were EV present.

But everything was approved, and the EV were exposed. So I have a mixed feeling which was trying to be a compromise to what actually started off as desecration, which you should remember. And now dealing with not only the desecration but a situation where a parking structure is covering up and to see the construction of the Oui Arts is to appease what has taken place, I think that's a very mistaken attitude. It is still ever. That ever will never hold because of the the desecration that occurred in that area, which I see each and every day and which encouragement of it being acceptable that because this is put up to upkeep such actions that it is okay.

So may I remind the council to the advocacy that I was taking for many years, especially on this project, that not all of us are as being kind of satisfied with even this approach. So much more, but thank you.

Thank you very much. Anybody have questions? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Next testifier. That was it, right? That one.

Yes, sure. If you'd like, can do a last call.

Okay. Could you do a

last call?

If anyone would like to testify please come up to the podium or raise your hand on Microsoft Teams. This is for BFID57. This is last call. The countdown is 321. Seeing none, Chair Noem has indicated that they wish to testify.

Okay. Thank you very much. So I'll close public testimony again and we'll receive written testimony on this item. So members, I will open this up for your questions three minutes apiece, and we'll start off with member Rollins Fernandez.

Aloha directors and deputy directors and team. For your presentation and for the update. I got really excited when I could see the the walls over the, barrier. Okay. So I guess I was listening to the presentation before, I turned on the video, and I I didn't fully understand why the 6,000,000 was removed from the beginning of the project and then we're adding it back in? Was it because it was going to delay the start of the project?

Anybody have an answer? It? Mr. Schupak.

Thank you, Council Member Rollins Fernandez. Thank you, Chair. Yes, so the original budget for the project was $46,500,000 at the time, and that included the federal funding. So when we put it out to bid, the lowest bid came out at that $6,000,000 above what we had budgeted. So instead of canceling the bid or canceling the project, decided to move forward with the contract with the hopes that the contractor could bring the cost down through value engineering and through kind of eliminating So items where

I guess my follow-up question to that was, was it because of the timing that you didn't come back for the $6,000,000 then? Well, I guess it wouldn't be you, but whoever's decision that was.

Yes. Thank you for that question. Yes. So I guess just be clear that the $6,000,000 that was removed through value engineering, most of those items remain as is. So they remain kind of we've got to change construction methodology things to cut the cost.

So those items remain, I guess, eliminated from the project, I guess, so to speak. The add backs are other items that we that we didn't include in the contract that were included in the bid as like additive alternates that we just weren't able to include from the start. So I guess

I only three minutes so yeah is the. Is there like a difference between cast in and and pre. Precasts are are what you're explaining off of the walls because yeah I see member Hutchins nodding her head. Because like once that's done, you can't, you know, go back and redo that one. So is there like, what was what is the difference?

Yes. So basically, I guess, for cast in place, it's just a lot more labor intensive, I guess, to put up forms and

Well, I just mean, like, the, you know, like the quality. Like, what's

It's a saving. It's savings a and cost but it takes longer to install.

We The cast in was preferred, right? Yeah. That was what was initially budgeted for, so that was what

It's fast.

Have ideally wanted.

Yeah. It's a it's a faster method. Yeah. So we we had we made some allowances with the contractor to allow for the methodology that would take a little bit longer but cost less in terms of I guess

Okay. Yeah.

Thank you. And then if the timer off,

Okay. I could not

No. Thanks.

Okay. Thank you. Next I'm going to go to Member Cook.

You, Chair. So

the original bid was over, items were deducted, was part of the savings from value engineering. How much was value engineering savings and how much of it was elimination of components? Broad strokes because we don't have much time.

Thank you, Member Cook. Thank you, Chair. Yes. So basically, 6,200,000,000 was all pretty much all value engineering. I think the only item included in the that was considered value engineering was the some of the acoustic treatments that are being added added back. Yes, so it was yes, that was $6,200,000 and that were that kind of remain removed from the project or value engineered out of the project.

Yes. So I mean tilt up and so cast in place is a savings. It's not necessarily a lesser product. It's just different connection details. And without getting in the weeds, it's a substantial savings and it's also a lot less materials. As far as the so what is this money for, particularly? I mean, if it isn't the building because the value the value engineering brought the cost And then cost that's And

little bit consists of the cost base bid items and then there's a list of additive alternates, which are usually items that if the project comes in under budget, we can add those items in. So the $52,000,000 included basically all the base bid items and there were all these additive alternates of which roughly about $2,800,000 is what we're adding back. And then there is question. To I

the next building, new building, wondering. I

would say pretty much all of it. Yes, I mean it's the kitchen equipment, photovoltaic, infrastructure for telecom and security. It's audio visual system for the performance space as well as all the acoustical treatments.

So I'll give you my suggestion. If you put the diamond I mean, not diamond roof. If you put the standing seam metal roof back, some of the architectural deducts that were things that you're not going to be able to change later, and maybe the county could consider having a list of items, prices and items that the community they could do a community outreach for as far as like, we'd really like to have this stamped concrete in this area. It doesn't have to be done until X. And would you be willing to contribute to that?

I think it's an opportunity because this is a multigenerational, very dynamic, keystone, cultural community project that it seems appropriate to be able to do that type of outreach.

And I

think it would be very reciprocal, not only financially, but for the community to feel participating. So I just put that out there for the budget committee to consider. I think now is the time to spend money and not buying stuff and having to fix it. So we can do it prudently, but not save money superficially and regret it later. Thank you.

Thank you. Next testifier, Member Woo Hodgins, followed by Member Senensi, then Member Batongen.

Thank you, chair, and thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, sorry. So initially the bid amount came out at 52, and then you needed to reduce it by 6.2, bringing it to 46.5. Yes? And then this is an additional 4,000,000 making the, like, hopefully final grand total cost 50,000,000, 0.5. Okay. And is that should that cover all of the anticipated needs? Are you going to be asking us for more money? Or this is good to go?

Thank you, Member Woo Jin's chair. We're to do that. To

cost escalations and whatnot has been very volatile. So

then there is a I mean there's a little bit of contingency in the project that we have currently.

Okay, good.

We have about we have a little bit over a million dollars left in contingency.

Okay.

So we're hoping not to burn through all that. Okay. But I

mean, kitchens are notoriously expensive and as commercial kitchen is extremely expensive. So I was just double checking, making sure you do have everything you need and some cushion because we have been seeing over and over again you folks come back to us and like, oh, psych, you know, concrete was more than we thought, right? And like we are seeing that constantly. So I just want to make sure you guys are budgeted appropriately. And then when is the anticipated finish date and open date for the Halal of OEV Arts?

Yes. The expected construction completion is 2027.

Summer twenty seven. Okay. Okay. So you guys have a year. Okay. Probably Yeah. Looking forward to it.

Yes. Like, fall twenty twenty seven.

Okay. Oh, you just said summer. No. Fall?

Oh, no. Oh, sorry. The the move oh, sorry.

Move Okay. Which is it?

Construction completion, summer twenty six.

Summer. And then it would be open, grand opening fall?

Yes.

Okay we heard it here first folks. Thank you.

Very good. Member Senensi followed by Member Batangen.

Okay thank you. For budget director, the 4,000,000 will be coming out of the bond fund.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member Senensi. Yes, this would be bond funding.

And we're still within of use of bond funding?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member Senecchi. Yes, we're still under our percentage and we're also under the loan transfer amount currently allowed by the general budget provisions.

Okay. All right. Just checking. Thank you.

That's it. Thank you. Member Batonga followed by Chair Lee.

Thank you, Chair. So I have a question on the additional alternative scope. How much of that scope was part of the initial project that was pitched to this council when they approved funding for the project?

Who would that be?

Thank you. So everything that you see was the original request. So when counsel authorized the budgeted funds and we put it out to bid, everything that was in here was identified in the bid docs.

So I guess back to Member Roland Fernandez's question about why you didn't come back. So the initial bid came in at about 11% over what was approved over the funding that was approved by this council. But I think that number is a little suspect because if you had things that you told this council were going to be in the project but included them as optional, I think that should have been captured as part of the overage as well. And the body should have had an opportunity to then weigh in again. And so I guess I'm trying to figure out, like, what was represented to this body and to the public when you knew that it wasn't going to be able to be provided?

Because the way it's been described, it sounds like you knew from before you signed the contract that this additional alternative work was not gonna be able to be provided. And I see some heads on it, so I'm gonna take that as an appropriate assumption. But then now I'm asking, if you knew for years that you were gonna need this budget amendment, why did the request come to us during the budget cycle with a request for action on the floor? Like, this shouldn't have been a time sensitive request if you've known since before you signed the contract that you weren't going to be able to provide what you represented to the body when we first approved this project.

So let me clarify that, you know, piece of this is working with the contractor to see how much of the contingency that we can use. And that is why we put the add alternates in the bid. So because it gives us the flexibility. It allows us to have the pricing for those bid items to be made public in the bid. And then if there is savings that happens during the construction process, we can reallocate some of the funds within the existing contract because it was already bid out. So that conversation did happen.

But if you knew because the bids all came in over when it was appropriated, that there weren't going to be savings, then you knew from the beginning that none of these items were going to be able to be constructed with the initial appropriation, no?

I can't say that we knew that none of them would be. Like I said, there was a decent size contingency that we thought could be allocated. And since then, because of the fire, because of cost escalations, because we worked with them to determine different methods construction where we did find savings. We weren't 100% sure where that would be. And I think in terms of a project management perspective, we would much rather be able to keep the budget at where the council has set it for us in terms of a limitation and try to build to that and be responsible with those funds and then come back when we know we need it and not necessarily allow a contractor access to that or to just keep changing the bar for the contractor because that continues to push up prices that we get in from our bids because the assumption from the contractors community then is we can just continue to come back and ask for more money.

Thank you. And thank you chair. I heard the timer.

Thank you. Chair Lee? Followed by Member Paulton.

No questions. Thank you.

Member Paulton, followed by Member Johnson.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, administration. I'm sorry I missed the, presentation. I didn't see anything in the, meeting details about additional alternative scope. Is that been provided in the presentation in writing?

Deputy Director Wade, is that you?

I'm not sure if it's on the agenda, the specifics that were listed. But the four items, the commercial kitchen, the telecom data, security infrastructure, the rooftop photovoltaic, and the audio visual system. If you want more details, we can submit that in writing if you prefer.

Thank you. That's sufficient for me. My question centers around that this is also an emergency evacuation shelter. And was it being built to category three standards?

Yes. That's correct. Category three.

And with this being, like, some sort of Godzilla El Nino, would people be, sheltering there if it was category four or five coming at us? I would need to ask. What is the capacity of the shelter? How many, people could it accommodate?

Not offhand. No. Anita.

We can follow-up with that information.

Okay, the where would people be able to shelter there in terms of a category four or five? And what is the total capacity of humans or and their pets that?

That's even worse.

Oh, thank you. That could be housed in the shelter. And, like, have we started planning for use as a shelter? Because I know predominantly this is for events and things like that. But, you know, with this summer, gearing up to be, like they said, in 1877, El Nino lasted two years and four percent of the population died. So I just was hoping that we would preplan the need to pivot as we're in construction.

Okay. Thank you for that question. We are actually in the process of developing a management plan for the facility because we have multiple users. As you know, Kanoa is also a user of the facility. So both the management and maintenance as well as the emergency operations of the facility is going to be developed into a document that we'll bring back for you folks as well. And then I know the details are in

I'd the love to know more about the

was just gonna say I know the of the operation as a shelter is in the environmental assessment document, so we can pull that and share that with you as well.

Thank you.

Okay. My other question was gonna be about maintenance. I met someone from Wyoming, I think, where they said that they, have a contingency fee for maintenance, repair, and upkeep built in. Are we looking to do anything like that? Because, you know, when it's brand new, it's brand new.

But as we know, there's plenty of old stuff that we're having to now fund. So it may be a good idea, like, as we rent it out or allow for usage that some of the money that is generated through it be put into an upkeep and maintenance for the facility itself because like Member Cook said, generations to come.

Go ahead. Yeah, thank you for that. That will all be in the management plan. Then as fees are set, that will come before you folks in a fee schedule as well.

Thank I think I heard the bell. Was that the bell?

Yeah, a little while ago.

Yeah, was kind of soft, but Thanks. Got

We'll make the bell louder. Thank you. Member Johnson. I'm going to take a break.

Thank you, Chair. I'll just have one quick question because many of my questions have been answered already. It was a follow-up the management plan. Do we have an ETA on when we'll be able to see that?

Thank you. Yes, that's in development right now. The hope is that later this summer we'll have a draft available. We certainly have a lot of groups and stakeholders to be reaching out and making sure that it both meets their needs as well as it meets our facilities maintenance needs. I'd like it quite a bit further along before we bring it to you folks, but end of summer is

of year. We're to

that.

Before the end of the facility completion. So we would like to be able renting those spaces out as the facility is like six months before completion.

Great. Thank you for your response. Thank you, Chair. No further questions.

Fold. Appreciate it. So I just I'm going to make one statement that I'm going to call a recess. I can tell this is not going to be big enough. Right? And if you look at all the halals that came and testified when director Malikau said that, what he was seeing in that corner, I was there. I was present. Not all of you were present, but many of you. And I will tell you that the excitement in the room, which I remember, it was kind of like finally, right? That was finally.

This is happening. And what I remember you saying, Deputy Director, is that you I remember you saying one day the community is asking for this as this council tried to kill this portion of the municipal parking lot and took away funding for this event thing that has now turned into this. So congratulations on that achievement. I remember that. But now as I'm sitting here, I'm thinking this is not big enough, you know, for the needs that are going to appear and what the community really was wanting. I think once everybody moves in, we're going to say, ah, not big enough. But, thank you very much. So anybody wanna make a statement about that?

I just have one more question, Okay. Chair, before we move

Sure.

Sorry. Thank you. I know member Rollins, do you have a statement? Do you wanna go? Yeah. Okay. Good.

Because I was the one that killed the previous project, the civic center. There was gonna be a Wailuku Civic Center, and we defunded it. Then there was $40,000,000, And I passed the resolution to support the Wama Kahikina, declaration. And from out of that was born the halo of OUV Arts. Yes.

And we approved that. And what I said then, and I'll say it again now, is that this wasn't meant to be the only one. It was meant to have one in every district the way that we have baseball fields, swimming pools, gyms. There should be a halal of OEV arts in every district. Mahalojar.

Okay. Thank you. Member, Hodgins.

Thank you. Can you please provide me a quick breakdown on how the $4,000,000 will be spent for all the things listed? So you have a $1,000,000 condition, or contingency fund. How much do you think the commercial kitchen is gonna cost?

And

to $170,000.

Okay.

And then we added in contractor escalation and overhead and profit and to be do

we're

we'll we'll

And And markup. And escalation then was $5.32.

$5.32. Okay. And what about audio?

That

was $9.00 5 in the 905,000 Mhmm. In the original bid, and with the markup is 1,040,000.

Okay. And security?

That was $5.67 in the original bid and with the markup $6.52.

Okay. Is there anything else that I missed?

Yeah. And then there's professional services contract extensions totaling around $808,154,000.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's all

I Oh, sorry. There was the acoustic treatments, and that was one one sixty nine originally with the markup 194.

Acoustic. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks.

You very much. So for first round, I'm gonna now call a recess. We can we come back back at 10:40? Is that right? Welcome back to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee.

Thanks for letting me take a short break. We are back to Bill seventy and eighty regarding the halau of OEV Arts. And members, I'm going to ask for the administration to come back with a detailed breakdown of all expenses that were talked about to Member Woo Hodgins and I think Member Batanget had questions regarding the expenses and questions on construction, which was Member Cook had questions. I'm going to ask you if you could come back with some more detailed information for second reading. Staff, you do have the questions to ask, right? So at this time oh, member Senanci, you have questions?

Thank you, chair. This is not time sensitive or anything, director.

It is. It is.

Oh, so you're gonna bring it back up when, chair?

I'm you you want me to ask you're asking me what my recommendation is?

Yes.

Okay.

For a second

Oh, for a second reading.

Okay. Thank you.

Oh, I was making you nervous.

Yeah.

As we're seeing at the end of the fiscal year. So members at this time then staff is going to send written the questions that you have. Does anybody else have any more questions on this before I make my recommendation? Oh, Member Batongen.

Thank you, Jer. Staff, can I ask that you also transmit the following questions? Will use of the money for the halal be used to do any improvements to the parking garage? And then can I get a ask for a commitment that no operational dollars will be needed for construction? And then I don't know exactly what the wording of your question is going be, but I would like a breakdown of the full $50,500,000 rather than just the breakdown of the additional money that's going be needed. Thank you, Jerick.

Okay. Anybody else have questions, members? Seeing none. Alright. So at this time, Member Paulson, do you have You a

got the ones that I had earlier, yeah? Okay. Do you The one about the category four and five, if they're gonna shelter there and the capacity of the yeah.

Are you in the church?

Okay. So you got that. Right. Okay. Alright. So My recommendation is I'm going to recommend passage on first reading Bill seventy, twenty twenty six, and Bill eighty, twenty twenty six, incorporating any non substantive revisions. Moved. So Second. Moved by Member Uhajan, second by Member Sorensen. Any more discussion on this? Seeing none, all in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye. This looks like nine ayes. Motion carries. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much everybody. Nice seeing you. So we're going to go to the next item on the agenda, which is B Fed 56, Bill 60 nine-twenty 26 amending section 3.36.190 Maui County Code relating to upfront disbursements and installment payments for grant recipients. Bill 69 amends section 3.36.190 Maui County Code to provide more flexibility in the grant disbursement process. As drafted, the bill would allow county agencies based on a determination of need to provide advanced disbursements of 10% or more installment payments or both.

This item continues the committee's broader work on how county grants are administered and dispersed. Assisting us with our discussions today is Budget Director, Director Martin for Finance, Economic Development Director Rojas Latissi, Deputy Director Heva Heva is available virtually. Because council member Johnson introduced this bill, I'd like to first recognize him for any opening comments. And after his comments I will ask for comments from the Chief of Staff, then Budget Director, then Finance. Thank you very much, Member Johnson.

Thank you Chair. Thank you members and thank you departments for all helping us out with this bill. I think the key word was mentioned in committee chair Sugimura's opening remarks about having flexibility. And that's a good thing. The folks, our nonprofits who are doing this kind of work are under all kinds of deadlines and they're nonprofits.

So they're working on very small budgets. I think working with the grantees, working with the administration as well as the public and the grantees on how the grant disbursements needed to be improved, flexibility came up time and time again. If you recall members, survey we put out really a that's my a question. Opening remarks on that. And I if everybody has any questions, everybody's here to answer them. Thank you, Chair.

So did a survey of different grantees and you put a lot of effort into this. Thank So you very much and your patience because I think we tried to take this up maybe three times already.

Yeah, well no good deed goes unpunished.

All right. So next, does the department or administration have any comments?

Thank you, Chair. Yes, and I'd like to echo Councilmember Johnson. We really appreciate his efforts on this. He convened a meeting with all of us as well as some of the nonprofits, we were able to get their perspective as well, which was very helpful. This is the result of that meeting as well as meetings with the grant manager working group and the budget finance and corporation council working group. That's how this all came together. I really appreciate question.

Question.

I think that's really making a difference and allowing us to come together with solutions that benefit both our county employees and our nonprofit partners. One thing I did want to mention, I did want to make it clear that the reduction from 25% to 10% is not intended to across the board reduce it. That was a request. We have several partners who don't want a disbursement as high as 25%. They prefer to take a 10% disbursement.

So we just wanted to put that in the code. As the council members are aware, we do disbursements ranging from 10% to 90%. So that's not intended to cap at 10%. That is the floor. So I just wanted to flag that. And I'm happy to answer any questions that the body may have. Thank you, Chair.

Next we have Director Martin from finance. Any comments? I don't see her, so she must be online, right?

Yes, thank you, chair. The Department of Finance has reviewed this bill, and we would like to thank everyone, all of our partners, for working on this bill. We appreciate being included conversation, and we look forward to improving the process. Thank you.

Thank you. Economic development director, Rojas Letissy.

Good morning, Chair. Good morning, members of the council. No opening comments from my end. Thank you.

Okay. Deputy Director Hibah Hibah had to log off. So he has Anna Mejia Vasconcelis, Director, Department of Ag. Any comments?

No. I just wanted to thank the council and other county departments. We are definitely in support of the proposed language. Thank

you. Okay. Deputy Director Peterson. You appeared in person. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Members. DM and EP and S in full support of this bill. Like everyone else, we'd like to thank everyone for their hard work and helping to make this grant process a little easier and smoother for everyone. Thank you.

Okay. You very much. Nice seeing you here by the way. And thanks for being here all morning waiting for us to take up this item. I also want to hear especially from Chief of Staff.

Thank you, Chair. Chief of Staff is out of the office this week so she was unable to attend, but she's been involved in these conversations with the nonprofit partners and with our grant managers and OED is in support of the bill. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Member Johnson has spoken. So this time I'd like to open up for public testimony. Anybody?

Chair there's no individual sign up to testify. Would you like me to do a last call? Please do. This is the last call for oral testimony. Please come to the podium or raise your hand on teams if you would like to testify. The countdown is three, two, one. Seeing none, chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you. Okay. At this time then I'd like to close public testimony on this item and receive written testimony members. Thank you. Thank you very much. So at this time, we'll take questions from all the members and it'll be three minutes per. I'll start up with Chair Lee. Chair Lee, then go down this way. Member Palton, Member Johnson.

I really don't have any questions. I am in support.

Okay. Member Palton.

I just had a question about okay, say we do the minimum of 10%. Is it a one time thing? Like, what if they take out the 10%, they use it as described, and then they're ready for the next step? Can they take another 10%? Use it as described through to the whole 100%? Or is it a one time upfront disbursement?

Milner.

Thank you chair, thank you council member Pauline. This bill provides a possibility for either. There's an option for installment payments or for a one time disbursement. That will be a discussion between the department and the grantee to determine what would be best for their needs. Generally we do withhold the last 10% until all documentation is received, as part of that, allotment process. But other than that, it can be either. Thank you, chair.

And and just clarifying that by installments, you mean multiple upfront disbursements.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, councilor.

And then what is the recourse if, say, like, we do that perhaps, and by the fourth upfront disbursement, you know, whatever happens? I guess in one case, it could be, like, you know, we've had COVID. We've had the fire. Potentially, like, the nonprofit, like, scraps and disbands or somebody passes away. What is the recourse if, things go wrong with the upfront disbursements?

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member Pauline. I'll I'll speak briefly, and then I'll ask director Martin to chime in as well. But that's part of the reason we don't disperse that final 10% to allow us some leverage maybe. I guess that's a harsher word that I would prefer to use, but it allows us to exactly. No. It allows us the opportunity to make sure all of the paperwork is in alignment before anything happens. Now if we do have a situation where a grantee takes the money and doesn't provide the documentation at that point we would need to go to them to ask for repayment which can lead to litigation but I will let Director Martin speak to that. Thank you chair.

Director?

Yeah, thank you chair. So in the event that the grantee is unable to return the money, we basically start engaging with the grantee, start talking with them. Sometimes, know, we can work things out with them. The reason why we worked on this bill was to create installments, and in creating installments, we're going to create installments that are appropriate for the grantee so that we don't run into this situation.

Okay. And then like, oh, I think the bell rang but my follow-up would have just been on like cases out of people's control. You know, what if they were doing work in Lahaina when the fire happened? We wouldn't hold that against them. That's a freak show, Mr. Vanquilla, El Nino situation. We wouldn't try to put people in jail for that, right?

Director Martin.

Thank you. So if there are unforeseen circumstances, it may result in the grant being amended to address those situations. Okay. So they're going to work with, know, maybe because of the fire, would be extending the performance period of the grant. Then they would work with their grant manager who would we would amend the grant to receive the benefit that we originally engaged for.

Okay, I think I heard the bill and I'm sure that my fellow members will cover whatever I left off. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Next, Member Johnson followed by Member Rollins Fernandez and Cook.

I don't have any questions. I just support the bill.

Thank you.

Thank you. Member Rollins Fernandez?

Same. Full support. Mahalo, Member Johnson, and everyone in the adamant for working hard on this.

Thank you. Member Cook.

Thank you, Chair. I don't have any questions. I'm supportive and I'm hoping that some of the assets moving forward, some of the things that are working and not working, we can kind of know what's going on so we can be of assistance. A lot of people will reach out to our offices regarding issues, and we're not managing it. But if we can kind of have a clue if there's some aspect of it that's problematic and working on it, then we could relay that to them. So anyway, I'm glad these grantees are going to be able to provide services. Thank you.

Thank you, Member Cook, Member Woo Hodgins, followed by Senensi.

Thank you, Chair. I'm super supportive of this as well, but I would love some details to to be provided. So the based on determination of need for the agency when, they're able to qualify for upfront disbursements. What's the policy? How are people going to make that decision?

Thank you, chair. Thank you, councilor Ruhu Hajjens. Yes, we're working with the departments to develop guidelines around that. Currently, I can say at least for OED, we asked the grantee to just submit a request stating what the funds will be used for and why they need them upfront rather than as a reimbursement to demonstrate. Say we need to pay our payroll and we don't have $20,000 in our pocket right now. So we need this upfront. And, generally, those requests have been granted for the most part. Okay. We just ask that there's solid justification, not just the code says so. Thank you, chair.

Sure. Okay. And then that's gonna be part of your your guidelines are gonna be part of your admin rules, and then that's gonna be something you folks discuss when you have your meetings with the grantees and saying, here's what we will need from you to determine need.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member. Yes. That will be provided to the grantees, and I will just briefly, since you brought them up, the admin rules are with corporation counsel right now for final review. So we hope to have a Oh, great.

Are they

for all of you soon.

Thank you. That was gonna be your next question. And then let me see. What other questions do I have? Because I'm supportive, but we've heard, as member Johnson has said, how difficult this can be sometimes. So I wanted to at least try to ask some of these questions. How many days of the grantee have to submit paperwork, including the invoices and the proof of payment? Is this going to be codified?

Thank you, Chair. In our current general terms and conditions that are attached to the grant it's thirty days. We have talked to Finance and Corporation Counsel and starting in fiscal year twenty seven that will be ninety days.

Okay. Fiscal twenty seven. Oh, '27 is gonna be a big year for everyone. Okay. I think that's it for now, but I will look forward to having the admin role so we can figure out. And I I would appreciate, and I know you folks will do exactly this, but be extremely consistent so that people don't feel like some people are getting the better deal than the others.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member. Yes. Standardization is something we're really trying to hone in on as we move forward.

I hear it.

We want it to be a consistent experience across the county.

For sure. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you.

Thank you. Member Senensi, followed by Batangen.

Thank you, Chair. I'm supportive. Thank you.

Thank you. Member Batangen.

Thank you, Chair. Also supportive. I have two questions, one of which member just largely covered. Can I get additional details on the installments? How frequently or in how large of an increment of within the grant are have you guys discussed?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Batonga. There are a few different approaches we take to the installment payments. I think the most common is a quarterly installment of 25% for the first three quarters and then 15% for the last quarter with the final 10% as a reimbursement.

Great. Try that again. So 10% upfront potentially.

25% upfront, sorry. So our most common is twenty five percent first quarter, twenty five percent second quarter, twenty five percent third quarter, fifteen percent fourth

and And then final

10.

So how does it work when somebody chooses the advanced

The advanced disbursement, yes. So if it's just advanced disbursement you get that one time disbursement.

Of 10%.

10% or above.

Oh, I see.

Yes. We've done up to 90%.

Okay. And the determination of need has not yet been, adopted into admin roles?

Correct.

Okay. Has there been discussion so I know Section IV of the bill is that the ordinance takes effect upon approval. Has there been discussion about having it take effect upon completion of those admin roles?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Pataga. We're hoping to put this into place. We don't want to hold the allotment payments and because there are some departments that were doing allotment payments previously and a lot of grantees has become accustomed to that. So we would like the allotment payments to be able to continue, which is why it's on passage. We want those to be able to go into effect right away at the beginning of FY twenty twenty seven.

Okay. So couldn't the Section four then read that this ordinance takes effect upon 07/01/2026?

Thank you, chair. If that's the preference, that's fine.

Okay. Thank you, chair.

Yeah. Very good. Okay. So what you're doing today is going to impact the grants that are existing right now?

Thank you, Chair. The largest impact I think will be on the fiscal year 'twenty seven grants. We have already issued the agreements for the large majority of the fiscal year 'twenty six grants.

Okay. And so we're here, we're still I know this is about the installments and whatever, but we're still hearing concerns about the grants being delayed or waiting or they're asking for new documents. And we hear all kinds of different rationale. So your rules that you're coming up with, which is going to be about this, are you also addressing some of the bigger problems that we're hearing about?

Thank you, Chair. The admin rules are intended to act as an overarching structure for the county when it comes to grants, and then there will be more specific policies and procedures that sort of fall under those. I don't know what specifically you'd like them to address, I don't know if it's a timeline concern. I know right now everyone has to submit an application whether you're a line item or a competitive grant, you need to reach a certain level on your score I believe. I know for OED it's score of 70 or higher.

If you don't reach that score, the staff will reach out and work with you to try and get you to that score or get the paperwork they need and do everything we can to get the funds distributed as intended. But things like that do cause delays. If the council members are aware of any delays, I absolutely welcome them to reach out to myself and the appropriate department so that we can provide additional information on the status of those grants. Okay.

I'm sorry, I'm getting a little bit off the subject. So I'll look for your admin roles. We'll cover mostly of what you just said.

Thank you, Chair. Some will be in the admin roles and some will be in the policies and procedures. Which is different. Thank you, Chair. Yes.

Okay. Any other questions, members? Chair Lee.

Director Milner, on the admin rules, until you have admin rules, are you not going to process grants?

Thank you chair. Thank you chair Lee. No, we are not going to delay grants until the implementation of the admin rules. Although we are hopeful the admin rules will be in place by July 1.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. So that sounds like your motion, right? That member Batangian wants. Any other questions? Seeing none. All right. So who decides is a question. Then each director then decides what this will how this will be implemented, the 10% or more?

Thank you, Chair. That will be on a case by case basis based on discussions with the grantees and their requests that are received from those grantees.

And standard documentation which will be in

the admin rules? Thank you chair. Yes standard documentation we are working on putting that into place across the county as soon as possible.

Any other questions? Members? Member Batongan.

Thank you. So following up on the documentation, that's not in the grant agreement itself.

Thank you, Chair. The requirement for reporting is included in the grant agreement itself. We don't include templates as part of the grant agreement necessarily. That's something that's provided as part of the application and award process.

Okay. And then can you talk a little bit more about advance payments on the higher end? So like give an example or two of ones that were over 50% of the grant.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Member Betongen. That's primarily for situations like the Department of Agriculture, MEO agricultural microgrants because they're sub awarding those funds out, they need to have them in hand in order to be able to grant those awards. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. So

members, no other questions? You're fine, Shirley? Okay. I'll entertain a motion to recommend passage on first reading of Bill 69 incorporating any non substantive revisions. So moved. Thank you. Thank you, Member Johnson and second by Chair Lee. Any other discussions?

Member Yes, So my preference, and I'm okay if the body disagrees with me on this one, would be to have this ordinance take effect upon the new fiscal year so that we close out the current year with the rules currently in place and then we start a new fiscal year with a clean slate and a new set of guidance for our grantees. So I would like to make a motion to change section four to this ordinance taking effect upon July 1.

Okay. Is there a second? Second by, member Cook. So motion made by a member of Tongan and, second by member Cook. And this would then amend this to take effect on 07/01/2026. Any further discussion? I think we heard Member Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. You know, I heard that Director Milner said she has no problem with it. You know, in times of emergency I think I would like to have it be ready to go upon approval like right now. We're really cutting the we got to go through first reading, second reading and stuff. We're really getting close to the actual fiscal year anyways.

But we're talking about El Nino summer and if there's some kind of fire or some kind of emergency, I would like for those funds to be ready to go right away as opposed to waiting for July 1. So at this point, I'm open to more discussion, but I kind of want would rather have it just be ready to roll right now because we are dealing with disaster after disaster after disaster. They're talking about how El Nino might come and really affect our islands. I would like to give flexibility being the keyword. So thank you, Chair.

Member Batonga.

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that, Member Johnson. I guess for the administration then, two questions. One, can you give us a sense of when the admin rules might be adopted? Because my hope for delaying it until the new fiscal year wasn't just so that we could start with a clean slate but in part because my assumption was that the admin rules would be ready at that time. And then the second question would be if an emergency comes up, say El Nino causes massive destruction, are there mechanisms in place for rapid deployment of funds for response and recovery?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilor Repetongan. Yes, I have a meeting with Corporation Counsel and Finance tomorrow where I'm hoping to get an update on the status of the admin roles. As I said, our target date is no later than July 1, so hopefully before that. But I will obviously send notification to counsel when that's posted for the thirty day period.

And then just to help me understand the difference between the amendment I'm proposing and what would happen upon approval. Okay, so if it's first if it passed out to committee today, first reading would be when and second reading would be when? Okay, we're only talking about a difference of like a week and a half.

Yes.

Then I will withdraw my motion. I'm sorry guys. I don't think I didn't realize how close we were cutting it. I thought this was going make more of a material difference.

Okay, so you're withdrawing your motion?

Yes, if Member Koku will withdraw his second.

Corp Consul, you want to tell us when you're going to have the admin rules reviewed?

Thank you, Chair. I know First Deputy is working on those admin roles and we talked about it at our C and D meeting yesterday. I think we're doing final review right now.

Will that get posted somewhere that we could see it?

Thank you, Chair. Yes, it will be publicly I will make sure that as soon as it's posted the link is sent to all of the council members so it can be distributed. Thank you, chair. Great. Chair Lee.

Wouldn't the admin rules require a public hearing? Yeah, okay. So that's when everybody will know.

So that'll delay the implementation then. How soon will you have the public hearing?

Thank you, Chair. It has to be posted for thirty days before the public hearing. Thirty days after it is posted, we

will have the public hearing.

Oh, so it's going to go into the month of July? Oh, it's going to be delayed anyway. You're kind of right on.

True, but I don't want to be picking arbitrary dates based on when I think these are going to pass, right? Like, I could pick it to the beginning of the fiscal year because, you know, and there was rationale for it. You know, it'd be a new slate. People are now going to be applying for grants in the budget we just approved. Delaying it past that just feels like picking data at random, and I don't prefer not to go down that route.

Okay. Alright. Member Poulton, did you have your hand up? Sorry. I didn't see you. No.

I was just illustrating muddying the waters.

Oh. She's kidding. Alright. Members, are you guys ready to vote then? Alright. So I did that. So Member Johnson and second was by Member Silenci. Was that right? Oh, it was Chair Lee. Oh, this is an AL. All right. Any more discussion? All in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Okay. That looks like nine ayes. Motion carries.

All members.

You. You very much Member Johnson for working on this. More to come, right?

More to come.

Okay so the third item on our agenda is bill 83 amending fiscal year twenty five budget Department of Environmental Management, sewer fund and appendix A part two open space natural Resources, Cultural Resources and Scenic Review Preservation Fund. The bill would amend fiscal year twenty twenty six budget by transferring $372,933 from the sewer fund to the open space natural resources, cultural resources and scenic review preservation fund for TMK 230 Eight-five-twenty 3. According to the transmittal, property was purchased in 2023 with open space money for $5,200,000 During the planning of the Central Maui wastewater facility, it was determined that about 7% of the parcel will be needed for the project and 372,933 is the pro rata amount for that portion. Because the open space fund is restricted to charter section nine-nineteen and chapter 3.88 Maui County code for open space and related land conservation purposes. If part of this parcel will instead be used for wastewater infrastructure, the bill would repay the fund for that portion of the land that will be used for the new facility.

Today we have with us Deputy Director Peterson, Budget Director, Director Martin from Finance, and I will ask for opening comments First on the Department of Environmental Management then finance. Mr. Peterson, do you have any comments?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, council members. No, no opening comments.

Okay. Thank you, chair. As council member Poulton says, math is fun. So

come on, it's great. So

I just wanted to provide, I know we said approximately 7%, but it's 7.13%. So that's 14.9 acres out of two zero nine. The original purchase price was $5,231,075 So the pro rata cost is $372,933

Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Any other comments? Did you have Director Martin wanted to say a few words. No comments. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So this time I'm going to open this up for public testimony. Anybody signed up?

Chair, there's no individual signed up to testify. If anyone would like to test ify on this item, please come up to the podium or raise your hand on teams. This is last call. Three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you very much. So I'm going to close public testimony, receive written testimony on this item. Any objections? Members? Seeing none. All right. So now we can take questions from the members and we'll start with Member Senensi and we'll go down this way. Member Uhapajic?

No questions. Happy to support. Thank you, Chair.

Member Cook? Member Rollins Fernandez?

Okay. We're on the Waiaju parcel.

No. We're on the, second item third item.

Oh, Waiaju Beach Road. Okay.

Yeah. The Kahihu one is next. Okay. Okay. No questions. Okay. Member Johnson?

I don't have questions at this time, Chair.

Thank you.

No questions.

Okay. Member Poulton? Oh, she's going like this again. Hand motions today. No questions. Member Batangan.

No questions, share.

Okay. Wow. Questions, you've answered it. Thank you very much. So at this time, I'd like to entertain a motion for passage on first reading of Bill 83 incorporating any non substantive revisions. Member Cook, second by Chair Lee. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor raise your hand and say aye. This is a nine aye. Wow, very good. This is very fast. Keep it up folks. Motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank everybody for being here this whole time.

Next we have the fourth item on the agenda. Do we have a resource person who was standing by? We did have somebody from the family. So this is the item that takes up Ka'ehu Bay, which is bill 100 two-twenty 25 and resolutions 20 five-fifty three relating to the proposed acquisition of 104A Lower Waihiu Beach Road in Wailuka also known as Ka'ehu Bay. Bill 102 would amend fiscal year twenty twenty six budget by adding $05,000,000 for this acquisition and deleting the portion prior year $1,300,000 appropriation for 131 Shaw Street in Lahaina.

Resolution 20 five-fifty three would authorize acquisition of 0.41 acres at 104A Lower Waihi Road for an amount not to exceed $480,000 plus expenses. Members, you may recall this matter first came before the committee on 02/18/2025 under Bill eight for the fiscal year twenty twenty five budget and then returned on 03/10/2026 for the fiscal twenty six budget. And this item was deferred while the committee want to awaited an updated title report and appraisal report. After those materials were received, the item was rescheduled and at the March 10 meeting, members of the family and community testified in opposition of the acquisition. This item is before the committee again as members can receive an updated record of the proposed acquisition.

Before the committee decides whether to recommend action, I would like to hear whether the administration still supports the acquisition, whether the prior due diligence issues have been resolved and whether any community or family concerns remain unresolved. Assisting us with today's discussion is Director Milliner as well as Director Martin. She must be online. Opening comments.

Thank you, chair. I'll let director Martin start.

Thank you, chair. Know, again, the bill has been deferred, and we're just here to support this body in making a decision. Guy Hironaka is also online to support the discussion. This is a policy decision, so we'll defer to the decisions of this body. Thank you.

Is that your opening comments?

Director? Yes.

Wait, let's hear the opening comments and then we can do questions next. Director Milner.

Yes. Clarifying question to the Director? Yeah, we get there.

Okay. Director Milner, you have comments?

Thank you, chair. I haven't been directly involved with the negotiations on this property, I can't speak to any discussions with the family. But I would just like to reiterate what was stated at the last meeting that the administration has made a commitment that if a court determines that county owned land belongs to a local family, the land will be handed over to the family. So I just wanted to state that for the record. And we are here to answer any questions you may have going forward.

Thank you, chair. Okay. So that's administration's comments. So I'm gonna open for public test wait. Didn't we have part of the family waiting? Oh, he left. Oh, he left. Okay. So no member of the family is present. Open for public testimony.

Chair, we have one individual signed up to testify. Kaniloa Kamanu.

Chair didn't he testify on this item already?

I believe he testified on the Halawi View Arts item.

Okay. Yes he did. Please proceed. Presenters under OEV? You did testify under UIV. Did you want to testify on this Kahehu Bay property? It's a new item for you.

Yes. Yes.

Please testify.

Yes, if

that's possible.

Please the

Application of this area.

The thing is there are claims that are. That the copy doesn't have really any power over which is land commission awards in these areas. Even though they are clouded with the tax map key, which you have attached to it, really those rules don't apply because the actual foundation of the creation of the land commission award was done in another format which this body does not have the authority to speak on because it still holds its original titles by way of the land coalition awardee, which is still the only title holder. So the thing is I would like clarity on where you're it this project is found to be cleared as far as title where that information came from and whether or not the original title awardee has been discontinued. Because the only way that the county can actually claim interest is that if they have clear title.

Thank you.

Questions? Seeing none. All right. Any other testifiers?

Chair, that's all the individuals signed up to testify. If anyone in the audience or on Teams would like to testify, please come up to the mic and begin your testimony. Or use the raise your hand function on Teams and staff will unmute you. Here's a brief countdown. Three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Okay. Thank you very much. With your permission, I'm going to close public testimony on this and receive written testimony. No objection. Okay. Thank you very much. So, members for deliberation. I'm going to start with Member Senensi and go down, end up with Member Batonga.

Thank you, Chair. In light of, Director Milner's response from the administration, my feeling is to support the acquisition. I know I don't want to speak against the family, but I I feel that if

if the

county doesn't assist them in this process and and, the church goes and sells it to somebody from out of state, I strongly feel that the family will have a harder time in presenting their case should they go to court or anything for the property. So that's my feelings at this point. Thank you, chair.

Okay. Thank you. Member Uhajans followed by Member Cook.

Thank you, chair. I really wish Mr. Maio was here because that's how I feel as well as what member Senensi said too. I don't wanna put them in a lose lose situation where they feel like we have to buy it, but I don't disagree that if somebody else does buy it, then their ability to hopefully reclaim what is theirs, will be more difficult, than what we could hopefully offer them. And if the opportunity doesn't arise where we get to present them back with their aina, then I would like to see us work with them to provide easements and access and see what would work best for them, to reclaim their space even if it's just physically and not necessarily on title.

And I wanted to hear their opinion on that. So I can support this if we do have the assurances that if they can prove that it's theirs, that we give it back. And if not, if they don't come up with the paperwork and the need it, that we work with them to ensure that they have a right of entry and some access and all of those things. Thank you, chair.

Okay. Thank you. Do you want administration administration statement? Statement?

She can, but I think she's going to agree with me, so if she wants to say that for the record. I'm obviously putting pressure on you, director, but go ahead.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, councilmember Woo Hodgins. Yes, as you know, we do work with a conservation group in that area already, so we would continue to work with them, but also work with the family for any necessary access for historic and cultural purposes. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Member Cook.