16 Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. So exciting to see people the chambers and I hear voices. It is now 09:07 a. M. My name is Yuki Lei Sugimura. I'm the chair of this committee. And I would like to welcome everybody and say that this meeting is being conducted in accordance with the law. So looks like we have everybody here except Chair Lee. So Chair Lee, when we call your name, tell us who's with you in your workspace. Minors do not need to be identified. Good morning Chair Lee.

Hola. Hola. Yeah. Hola, Kako. I'm here alone in my workspace with my little kitty. She's looking she's actually talking to the birds right now, but nobody else. And I'll be joining you after lunch. I have a couple of doctor's appointments this morning. Hopefully, you guys can carry on without my vote.

Be hard. All right. Welcome. Member vice chair member Patangan, hola.

Aloha ka ka hiaka and hola kakou.

Hola, Member Cook.

Hola, and good morning Chair. We have staff in the KA office, but nobody's over there. Looking forward to today's meeting.

Hola to you, Member Johnson.

Hola Chair, Councilmembers, Committee members. There's no testifiers at the Lanai District Office. And I'm here and ready to work. Thank you.

Great. Member Palton. Hola.

Hola, Kako, and aloha kakahiaka, streaming live and direct from the council chambers.

Hola, Member Rollins Fernandez.

Aloha, Kakahiaka, Chair. Aloha, Kakahiaka, Kakahiaka, Kakahiaka. It's nice to have a filled gallery today. Nice to be here in person. No testifiers at the Molokai District Office. Mahalo,

Member Sanensi. Assisting the of us with today's Board meeting is a competent BFED committee staff. Thank you very much for working hard. And we have invited resource persons from the administrations, which include the budget director. She's online.

Director of finance standing by, deputy corporation counsel Wigglesworth. Thank you very much. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Thank you members for attending today's BFED committee meeting and we have one item on the agenda today which is BFED one proposed fiscal year twenty seven budget for the County Of Maui. Members, I will be taking testimony after opening comments.

So I wanted to, if you would allow me to do a moment of silence. Sunday, we had the passing of Governor Ariyoshi, which you may have heard. I have a special place in my heart for him because he was the first person that I worked for when I started working in this field. In 1982, I had the honor of working on his last reelection campaign also besides being a staff for him. Probably my greatest memory about him is when you went to see him, he had a sign on his desk that said, the buck stops here.

And he truly lived that. He was fiscally sound. He created community plans for the state of Hawaii or plans for the state of Hawaii. We have continued using it till this day. He died on Sunday. He was a 100 years old. I tried to visit him, but his family said at some point they weren't accepting visitors. Out of respect, I appreciate that and I look forward to when we'll have the ceremony to honor him. But at this time, if you would allow, please have a moment of silence for our governor. Thank you.

So we will continue our deliberations discussion with the Department of Environmental Management and continue with the Department of Finance, excluding Welcome back to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. It is now 11:28. We are done with Member Palton's first priority and she's not back. So next we have Member Oh Hodgins. Thank

you, Chair. I move to increase the EP and S grant, environmental protection grants by 40,000. Thank you, Shane. For a new total of 840,000 to add the new condition, to environmental protection grants to read as follows. Up to 40,000 must be used for the grant to Haiku Community Association to support the Haiku Stream Testing Program. You folks oh, I'll wait for a second. Second.

Motion made by Member Uhajan, second by Member Rollins Fernandez.

Thank you. You folks heard from the community association at our budget hearing. They do a lot of testing of the stream in both of our districts to ensure that the public is safe, as they enjoy swimming in the stream. It'll be offset, by the deleting Balama Hamakua Maui in this section, but don't panic. I did move it into another section, so don't panic just yet. But that is my proposal for now.

Okay. Any other discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Who's missing is Chair Lee, and Member Poulton is not here. So that's seven. Okay, motion carries. Next is Member Paulton is not coming back then for a little while. Member Johnson, you're next.

Okay, Chair. First 19. Are ready move forward. For Malama Haleakala Foundation. Two, up to 740,000 must be used for Ujibail Haleakala and three, up to 500,000 must be used for Kaho'olawe Reserve Commission.

Second.

Member Johnson and second by Member Rollins Fernandez.

Thank you, Chair. We discussed this in the Adept Committee last year, members may recall. The Nu'ula Cloud Bridge stretched from Liward Haleakala to Kaho'olawe. It was once a constant ecological phenomenon that was documented in cultural practices and traditional knowledge. The cloud bridge brought shade and rains and formed one piece of the lay of clouds that circled Maui Nui.

These proposals fund reforestation, native plants and seed propagation and invasive species removal in partnership with Malama Haleakala Foundation, Ujibail O Haleakala and Partners, and Kaho'olawe Island Reserve Commission on two islands. We have white papers and received presentations from each of these community partners. And as you all know, the rain follows the forest. This proposal follows cultural wisdom and addresses resiliency by bringing back natural weather patterns by restoring land to its natural habitat. This in turn will protect us from fire, flooding, and drought.

We need to bring back the health of the islands to ensure the health and safety of its people. This project is a long time coming and is the first year of many that will seriously address climate change and resiliency. I respectfully ask the members' full support. I usually say expect.

Thank you. All

right. Any other discussion?

Member Ohodgins. Thank you, Chair.

We heard from some of the people that you were working with to, create your proposal, and I know we heard about it some. But please remind me what kind of trees are gonna be planted. I know we were talking about potential restrictions, so I was wondering if you could give us some information on that.

Yeah. There's a lot of information on the white papers, but specifically, they were talking about the Koa trees replacing the black waddle. And as many firefighters mentioned, the black waddle is really bad for fire.

Yeah. Do you have that white paper with you?

Yes. I do. You want me to hand it down to you?

I would love that.

Thanks. It I'm let me

You wanna transfer?

I I can just hand it down to you for now and

Yeah. Because we heard from we heard from one of the testifiers yesterday. I I think if I remember, I wrote it somewhere. So it was, a 100 and something acres for Kana'ulu Kana'ulu Ranch. Yes. And then what about Malama Hamokua? Is that are they gonna be the ones who are planting it on Kana'ulu Ranch? Okay. And then, Kaho'olawe Island Reserve, what are they going to do on that island?

Okay. All the answers are in the white papers. And I didn't want to go through them right now because it's about seven pages of documents I just passed down to you.

Yep. Are you gonna submit the white papers? Most definitely. Okay. So everybody will have a copy of

it. Yeah.

Okay. Can you answer me? Can you answer what's gonna happen on Coho Olave, please? Because I don't think we're gonna be planting Koa trees over there.

Right. Right. Why? Oh, yeah.

Girl, you don't have it memorized?

I'm just joking. I don't blame you because I don't either. Can

you summarize? Yeah. If you

could, as I as I flip through your trope papers with stuff that goes way over my head.

Yeah. I mean I mean control.

They're probably the best seats. Oh, I didn't see any Kaho'olawi stuff on here. This is just the Ka'ono'ulu ranch stuff.

And

the Haleakala one. So you'll get it, right? Remember Johnson? Yes. Okay.

I mean, I don't Okay. Don't get me wrong. I see how they're gonna be they're gonna benefit. I just don't see how here. You can have this back. You can able to plant trees when Kaho Kaho'olawe doesn't have the soil. It's it's a red hard clay, and they also don't have water. But nonetheless, I'm supportive.

I'm just curious. Thank you. Thank you. Any more discussion? If not, all in favor, say aye. Aye. We have eight ayes, one excuse which is charity. Carries. Member Paulton, I skipped you. You wanna take your chance now or you wanna wait?

Chair, real quick. Can I I'm sorry to interrupt you? I just wanted to make clear that the my priority that we voted on about four and a half minutes ago Mhmm. For the EP and S stuff was to also include deleting the line item in that area for Malama Hamokua. Just making sure that was clear. Yeah. That was because you

said don't worry. I'm putting it somewhere else. Yes. Okay.

But I wanted to make sure that was with my motion so that they're not in both places. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So member Palton, it

is your grant number two.

Thank you. I just wanna thank whoever gave me this nice thing in order with numbers. Wow. Yeah. It's I feel like you're very much. Okay. My second motion of the day is to condition add a new condition to Maui County wetland grants to read as follows up to 250,000 must be for a grant to for, and I did submit the white paper to the staff last night, maybe around twelve or one. Not sure. Lost track of time. K. Second.

Second.

Motion made by Member Palton, second by Member Ramos Fernandez. Go for it. Chair,

like to move to amend Councilmember Poulton's proposal and move it over to the office of OEV, which where it was originally. It was my priority from no. The 250,000, for Malama

Kal Kukanigua.

Thank you. Thank

you. For coding yeah. Guidance Move it over to their

EPNS. Is that did you just say EP and S?

No. OEV resources. You wanted to I'm move amenable.

Don't mind. You don't mind? Okay.

So then would I take it up when we get to OEV resources and withdraw right now? Yes. Yes. Okay. I'm amenable to that.

Okay. I'll So you guys got that right?

Okay. I'll I'll do what he said and take it up. Okay.

So we're gonna put this aside and take it up later.

Not Just just let everybody know. I did speak with Cody. He's supportive. I did speak with, Kekai Robinson. She's to it this way.

Okay. Okay. Well.

All right. Withdraw. So this is gonna be I'm gonna withdraw. I'm gonna move this to OEV at the appropriate time. Yes.

There is. Okay. Can I clarify that question?

Sorry. I'll ask that question for the record. Are you adding the funds when you remove it or move it to the Department of OEV or are you gonna condition grants that we already have in there?

We're going to condition. There is a pot of 700,000 in there that we will condition that for.

Thank you.

Okay. So I'm gonna move it. Next, we're gonna take up. We're So, going to see where's my sheet.

I did have some cuts.

So, we are one, two, three, four. We are done with the priorities and operating budgets. I'm going to go through the Bill 55. Admin program, general fund, pages five to six. Does anybody have any proposed amendments here?

B. I think I have a proposal. I move to decrease funding in category A. From your list, your huge list. Okay. By $22,108.

Second. Could

you clarify where

So I it was a second by a member Senancy. I think that's why I heard you. Okay. Go ahead.

I mean, my recommendation is the not yet created grant specialist f y '26 expansion position, reducing the twelve month request by four months. But that's just a suggestion, justification, recommendation. They're free to do what they want if we accept if you guys accept this proposal.

That that's fine. Had other cuts, so

that's fine. Director Milner is on.

Director. Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member. Did hear from the department that this position is almost complete in the creation process, and they do hope to have it filled by the end of this fiscal year, which is why they included the twelve months funding. The rest of the positions in admin, I believe, are full, so they don't really have any flexibility when it comes to funding. Thank you, Chair.

I'm willing to withdraw it.

Okay. So that's from this spreadsheet you're withdrawing. That's Okay. Whatever it's I'm to cross it out. All right. Does anybody remember Cook? Yeah.

Well, so I have a question for the budget director. If regarding the last

Ms. Billner. Oh, there you are.

Budget director, how about departments 32 vacancies, four of which are inactive but still funded in the budget? So the department will have wiggle room to fund the positions. One is reduce the funding for administrative program P00567, page 7.3 in budget details by six months. Department requesting a full year. Reduced funding $33,162 plus fringe. This is FY 2025 expansion position request. Position title has changed three times since then. Department is still awaiting approval on its reorg, which started in March 2025.

Question is

if that's general fund, sewer fund, solid waste fund, EPNS fund.

It's P00567.

P00567. Yes, thank you, Chair.

That was the grant specialist position that we were just discussing that they expect to fill by the end of this fiscal year. As for the department's other vacancies, I believe those fall under the special funds. Thank you, Chair. So

basically, the department's asking for no cuts at all.

For that particular Oh, there will

be cuts, but member or Chair Sugimura was just asking for the general funded administration program at this time.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. So we're just kinda going down. There's there's, like, four different pots of money for DEM. One is general fund, one is solid waste fund, one is wastewater fund, and one is EPNS. I have a proposal for the wastewater fund, when the time is right.

Member Patangan, how about your list? You don't have? Okay. All right. So for this administration program, we just talked about it. There's no amendments for this. Waste water administration program, sewer fund, page six in bill 55. Is there any yeah, that's your thing. Go ahead.

I know this is Mr. Nakagawa's money, but my proposal, I move to decrease category a by $500,000 and put that $500,000 instead instead to to fund fund the the CBS CBS dash five zero three one sewer funded, CIP to be able to reduce the bond. And then the $325,150 fringe transfer, I would like to put in their capital reserve fund. That's my motion.

Okay. That's your motion. Is there a second second by member Cook? And, did you get that? Is it in writing somewhere?

On my little paper with, pencil. Yeah. That I did last night in the midnight hour. Okay. Do do

Can I ask that you repeat that? Sure. Which is the, which is which part are you looking to reduce from?

A. I'm looking to reduce category a wastewater fund by $500,000 and relocate that $500,000 to capital improvement project c b S 5031. And then the fringe associated with the 500,000 category a cut, calculated to be, like, $325,150. And I'd like to move that to the capital reserve fund for the the sewer project, for wake up in country town, like, in the Waiala area. Yeah.

Sorry. I remember Palton. Yep. So you're cutting category a, that's Department of Environmental Management admin program or the wastewater

Waste water.

So there's Waste water. Six b, sewer fund.

That's what you're

you're talking about.

Okay. They can cut it from wherever they want. Admin, operations. I'm flexible. Are we in my discussion now? Yes. Okay. So for my discussion, they've consistently had over $1,000,000 of carryover in fiscal year twenty three, twenty four, twenty five. And I know this isn't cash money, but seems excessive when people talk about how much carryover we have. So I'm just giving this a try, taking $500 out of the SUARE fund for those vacancies that member Cook was referring to and reducing the bond.

And then the fringe associated with it, I'm gonna move over to the capital reserve fund.

Very good. Very creative. All right. Like, you have to be

creative in the midnight Can

I just confirm, so the total amount that you're proposing to reduce are tied to the positions that member Cook had mentioned? Or this is separate?

I don't know what member Cook was mentioning, but he was mentioning not the general fund. So it could also have been possibly the solid waste fund or the EPNS fund

additionally. Okay. Sorry. Can you remind me then how you came up with the, the cut amount?

Fiscal year twenty five's carryover was, like, 1,900,000, and I just picked the number. And then fiscal year twenty four was, like, 1 point something million. Fiscal year twenty three was 1,000,000 something. And so, you know, if it's our money to do with what that's what I'm gonna do with it.

Thank you, member of Halton.

Okay. You're welcome.

Okay. Anybody else have any discussion? If not, let's vote. Chair.

Oh. Yes. Apologies to interject. Staff

just wants

to clarify. So under wastewater for the SURFund, there's two APOTS. There's one for the wastewater admin program and one for the wastewater operations program. This one's under the wastewater operations program. Wherever they want

to take it from is I'm good with it.

Oh. Yep. For the I I think that the committee needs to select one of those two pods.

Okay. Then in that case operations Yeah. There's more people in there. Thank you.

Okay. Anyone to There's director Milner. All right. Miss Milner.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member Bolton. Yes. The department would rather have that come out of wastewater operations, but they would also prefer that the cut come from the B account rather than the A account, if that's something that could be considered. I'm amenable. And then because you were also allocating some from Fringe, just I don't know if you wanna increase. Eric's gonna kill me. The amount of the cut to account for the fringe to transfer the capital reserve fund or if you just wanna do the 500,000 for the bond fund.

I did wanna move the fringe to the capital reserve fund. If it creates a problem, I'm I'm okay with them coming for a budget amendment.

Eventually.

Okay. Anything else members? Oh. That is it. Okay. All notices vote. Yeah. We got a vote.

Wait. So the motion has been amended?

Motion. I accept that as a friendly amendment to change it from category a to category b wastewater operations 500,000 and dump it into CBS five zero three one with the fringe going to the capital reserve fund.

Very good. Okay. Oh, we got it.

In the amount of $325,150 is what I calculated the fringe as. But, you know, late at night we make mistakes. So I won't be offended if anyone fact checks my math.

You're happy math. Okay. Member Batongan.

Thank you, chair. I guess I just wanna start by stating that I support both moving the fringe and Eric killing Leslie as part of this this discussion. But I also wanna just note that I have so I guess one of the things I've learned throughout this process has been how difficult it is for us to make targeted cuts without a real sense of what is a true priority for the the departments and what is, you know, luxuries that we can live without. I would also say that as somebody who had created departmental budgets on the administration side, I also did appreciate the flexibility that the council gave to us to be able to, you know, make those determinations as as it came up. So I appreciate the approach that member Palatin had taken.

You know, I had initially tried it when we first started yesterday. It didn't quite work out the way I had intended, but I'm glad I had first, you know, taken that track. You know, I think it was a good learning experience for me as well. My thoughts have evolved and I I still support this, line of thinking and appreciate the thought that went into being more fiscally responsible but also giving the department the flexibility they need to maintain operations.

So thank you. Very good.

Thank you. Okay. Ready to call member, Rollins Fernandez? I

support well, first of all, I don't support killing Leslie. Leslie cannot die. We need

her. She's the

best and the most important. Okay. And then, second, I I support the motion sensor. And then last, I just wanted to, redescribe, needs versus luxury. I wouldn't describe it as luxury.

The way I understand it as a council member is, contingency, and we cannot predict the future. This is when we're setting revenue. And once it's set, like, that's it. We have to wait another year to set it again. And so if departments you know, there's been so many emergencies that have come up that was never anticipated before, we set the budget, that I understand, the departments, you know, wanting to make sure there's enough we're the money to pay people.

They're going have the money to complete the projects that they intend to complete. Anyway, and so I wouldn't describe describe it it as as luxury. Luxury. I I would would just just describe describe it as, you know, contingency. Member Bolton?

I'm not sure if this is for miss Milner or miss Wrigglesworth. I'm assuming the reason why they would prefer the cuts to category b as opposed to category a is to utilize the a funds for Over time. Overtime. And, thus, the fringe need is decreased. Is it okay to cut the fringe knowing that the a category will be used for overtime and That likely we won't fill the positions.

We only need 30% of fringe instead of a 100% of fringe. Then we can then cut it and move it to the capital reserve.

Core counsel. Was that

Thank

you, Chair.

I don't see an issue with that, but I would defer to budget director. Budget director.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilor Mabaughan. Sorry. What I was asking was if you wanted to cut the full 800 to $900,000 from the B account rather than from the fringe, as I believe the fringe is calculated based on the positions. I also realized I don't know if the transfer to the sewer fund needs to be a cut. I think that can be sorry, the transfer to the capital improvement reserve fund. I don't think that needs to be a cut. I think that just needs to be a condition that's added to the budget. I believe under wastewater admin, you would just add a condition for the transfer of that amount under the B account to the fund. So that wouldn't necessarily be a cut.

Would just be an added condition. Thank you, chair.

Could we put a condition that a carryover savings at the end transfers to the capital reserve fund at the end of the fiscal year?

We don't always know the carryover savings right at the end of the fiscal year, so that's why it's usually incorporated into the next year's budget process. I think I need to have further conversations with Corporation Counsel and OCS about if that was something that the council wanted to do, the appropriate mechanism, whether it would be a code amendment or if it would need to be in the charter. Thank you, chair.

Because the only reason I ask is we keep, carrying over the savings, and yet our sewer rates keep increasing. And so, like, you know, we need a break somewhere. Like, why are we carrying over all these savings and still getting 9% sewer rate increases every year? And if we're gonna do that, I'd like to see it go into the capital reserve fund, so that we're funding the projects in that way. Oh, Go ahead.

If it's not gonna be fringe, I'll just stick with the $500,000 category B cut. And we can work on the capital reserve transfer through legislation or something else in the future if I'm still around in January.

Okay. Member Batonga.

Thank you, Chair. Budget director, I'm glad you're still with us. Can I ask I don't think I followed what you were saying when you said that we would just need to condition the funding rather than cut funding? Because if we're moving accounts money, wouldn't we need to reduce it on the bond side?

Thank you, chair. Thank you, council member Betungen. Yes. Sorry. I was not talking about the 500,000 that's moving to CIP.

Oh, I see.

For that one, yes, you would reduce the bond. But what I was saying is for the money that you were talking about transferring to fund, the capital improvement revolving fund for wastewater, that would be a condition rather than a cut because that's just a transfer out of the wastewater admin budget over to that fund.

Okay. So with member Paul, okay, maybe I'm getting the is to reduce the bond amount. But the fringe is still included in your motion for, that would impact category or A. A. No?

That's Yeah. We moved it from category a to category b at request the of the department. I'm amenable to that. Okay. Mister Krueger was just mentioning that, that project is not bond funded, and he was seeing that a countywide project that is we can reduce that bond instead.

So Chair, staff currently sees two sewer bond fund projects under DEM. One is the countywide EPA compliance wastewater reclamation facility renovation projects. That one's $4,000,000 in bond. And there's one other one, which is under Wailuku Kahului Community Plan area. This is the to And

do didn't see one more. So staff will treat this as going

to to Waiahuco wastewater pump station modification.

Yes. CBS552C. So the proposal before us is to take

500,000.

500,000 from the B accounts to pay for that, reduce the bonding for that project that, Mr. Krueger had just mentioned by 500,000. And then on top of that, decrease the fringe associated with it from the B account?

There's there's no fringe from the b account if we wanna try and So it's

just the 500,000 that we're considering.

Yeah. I think if we wanna try and move some of their carryover to capital reserve, somebody had said that we might need to pursue legislation which can be done if we're still around in January.

So the proposal before us is just the 500?

Just the 500 to offset the, bond funding. Okay. Thank you, Member Pelton. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Kourou.

Okay. So we got that, right? Thanks for your help, folks. Thanks for your creative thinking. So members, no further discussion. Let's vote. All in favor, raise your hand. Say aye. Aye. Who is missing is Chair Lee. So it will be eight ayes and one excused. She will return. Anything else for wastewater operations program? And I think the department is sending appreciation that we're not cutting A. So thank you, Member Palton. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Member U'uhajans and I have a meeting with the WIR team to prepare for the conference

at twelve. Okay. We better recess then. Yes. Okay. All right. So we are ending right now wastewater operations program, wastewater admin program. I think we're done with that. And we will pick up after lunch. It is now 12:01. Come back at 01:30, members. Yeah? Okay. This meeting is in recess. Welcome back.

Budget Finance Economic Development Committee, it is now 01:34. Thank you very much for being here, all of you. And member Paulton gets a prize because she was here first. I have to figure out what the prize is. Just kidding. But you really are. You're always here first. So thank you. We left off we're in DEM. We left off as solid waste admin program management fund which is page six seven.

Does anybody have any amendments? Solid waste management fund. Anybody have any amendments? No? Solid waste operations program.

I really wanted to cut, but, you know, there's no interfund transfer, so it's not really and their carryover is is minimal. They're doing a great job. They got choke money because of the debris transfer. I'm gonna let them go on their merry way.

Okay. So Eric Nakagawa and gang will be happy.

That's not Eric's not too happy with

so it's environmental protection, sustainability fund, budget bill, pages seven and eight. Anybody have any amendments to this? You do. Member Palton.

I move, to delete 100,000 from, number five f seven, green building and resilient housing grants, and then subsequently, dip decrease the, supplemental transfer to the environmental protection and sustainability fund 100,000, freeing up 100,000 of general fund money. Hey. That's a prize. Good job.

And it's creative too. And it's creative. And good math, right? Those are all your categories. That didn't take too much math. 100, 200. Okay, anybody have any discussion? That's a motion. That's a motion. Team has a question. Second. Chair Lee has a second. So Member Paulton and Chair Lee made a second. Any more discussion? If not, let's vote. All in favor, raise your hand. Say aye. Aye. Now who are we missing? Member Woo Hodgins is going to be online, so she's not here yet.

So that is eight eyes, one excuse, member Oo Hodgins. Okay. We're moving right along here. Capital improvement projects. I have another motion. You have another motion for what? Same?

Same place but number 14, renewable energy program grants. Moved to decrease the appropriation by $50,000 and then subsequently decreased the supplemental transfer to the Environmental Protection and Sustainability Fund accordingly. 50,000.

Right? Correct. $50.50. 50. So you're adding one, right? Is what you said? You're taking from one and you're giving to the other.

No, I'm freeing up $50 cash for you folks. Yay. Another prize.

Second. Okay. Member and Chair Lee is a second. Any more discussion? Renewable

energy program grants decreased 50,000.

Okay. Any more discussion? All in

favor?

All in favor? Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Who is missing is member Woo Jin. So eight ayes is one excuse.

Anyone? No. I'm going to take up my other one instead of an EPNS and OWR based on, guidance from member Johnson.

Okay. So we we are done with EPNS.

I have. Oh, not EPNS. Okay.

Member Rollins Fernandez. It's not EPNS, it's admin. I missed it. Admin. So we got to reverse.

If you're ready. Yeah, we can reverse.

Go ahead. Under

move to delete the 2,500,000 from Malaya Village Association to support efforts to eliminate the use of injection wells at Malaya Village.

You got that? James N.

Okay. Page six in the budget bill. Yep.

Page six. Second by who? Oh, Member Senensi. Okay.

And then I'll discuss. Okay. Please. Okay. So I supported the one I can't remember, dollars 1,500,000 last year.

And then when we had DEM before us, I asked if there's an overall plan for this. Because last year, I supported the 1.5 because there was a matching 1,000,000 EPA grant to support this effort. And the overall project was estimated, like a year or two to cost like $8,000,000, but we know how much the cost of projects continue to increase. So without like a total plan, like, what I asked DM, and I I don't think we got a response for that question yet regarding, you know, at what point, how much is the county going to spend overall on this 8 plus million dollar project? Right.

And in I I guess I don't want every year to find out it's more it's more it's more without knowing what is being asked of us for the totality of this project. So that's the reason. Very good. Shirley.

And then member Katangan.

Does does this project support the Atherton housing project development?

No. No.

No. It's

Ma'alaya. Okay. The Ma'alaya

con Ma'alaya Village and that person who's been testifying mister Leggett or something? Mister Leggett. That's his project.

No. It's, Tapani Vori. I think mister Leggett mentioned that he was, removed from that project for a reason that hasn't been verified by me.

Okay.

And I don't want to repeat.

When appropriate, I'd like to speak to it.

Okay. Member but Member Button again.

Thank you, chair. I think I might need some context for this one. I If I remember correctly, there were talks about a community facilities district for this or am I thinking in the wrong project?

That's right. This is the same one. That's correct. They didn't want to do it.

Well, yeah, if you can get a county grant rather than a county bond, I would much prefer that too. So how much are we in on this project at this point? One point something.

Yeah, like 1,500,000. And so they're asking for another 2

and a half

Correct. Yeah. And this then they got a 1,000,000 grant from EPA.

Okay.

And they're asking for another 2 and a half this year from county.

Okay. Thank you, members. Okay.

Member oh, I'm sorry. Member Cook and then, Member Senensi.

I think Member Senensi was the seconder. So he would talk first and then Member Cook, then me.

Sorry. I have to move my computer screen. Now I can see.

Yeah. Thank you, chair. Just for a question for member Rollins Fernandez, is it to delete the entire funding or delay delay the funding?

Delete it.

Delete it.

Yeah. Until we get an answer about how much the county is going to be expected to contribute to the overall cost of the project.

Okay. Thank you. Member member Cook.

Thank you chair. Sorry.

Chair need to.

Just a quick question, Mr. Cook. Is this cash or bond? This is cash. Cash. General fund.

Thank you.

Okay. Now, who's next? Member Cook, then Member I think we're kind of going all over, but Member Paulton after that.

Thank you, Chair. I'll speak to this. I have I was very resistant to this in the beginning because I also felt it wasn't the place for the county to be funding it, and I thought a CFD would be appropriate. All of the owners, a lot of them are not residents. It meets the state criteria.

They're not being fined. It is polluting the bay. And I've signed on board, and I'm supportive of this because of impact that's happened to Malaya Bay. My thought processes of how we're going to get paid is they're paying transit accommodation tax. It's not a direct nexus, but that's my thought going able

to I And

think

that's

only can that do

to do this. The other thing that got me on board with this, what they're doing is that they're very regenerative type of sewage treatment plant. They have the area from Mahipono sense we're so of we're I we're

to do And Although it's painful to fund

do it like this, I feel that it's warranted. So thank you for letting me share.

Thank you. Member Polton. Thank you. Member Cooper.

I'll speak in opposition of this motion. I think they did say the full cost would be around 10,000,000. The reason I'm speaking against it is, similar to member Cook, the whole the bay is really trashed. I guess, you know, that used to be known as a pristine area. The wave itself was known as freight trains.

It hasn't broken, consistently except for that last code red Ma'alaya swell where, you know, the boat went through the restaurant at Ma'ala, which is in Lahaina, but that's how big the swell was. Like, the mass went right through the restaurant. But and you could see guys getting, like I don't know. It was, like, six minute barrels. But what I had heard was when they got out of the water, they were just covered in, like, bites and gross stuff.

Like, the water quality is really bad brown. And before when they closed the poly, before all the mud runoff from over there, it goes straight into the bay. So it's it's kind of so many things have been tried to help clean up the bay. They they put oysters in there, and then the oysters got ripped off. And then it was like a a failed pilot program, and then they're like, make sure you don't eat the oysters because, you know, you're gonna get sick.

But also, you know, because of bill nine, I guess, a little bit what member Cook is saying, they're not gonna have that revenue anymore. And if these are gonna be housing for local people, then, they're not gonna be able to address the sewage issue, which, I think was part of the reason why the Ma'alaya community didn't want to push for the NPDES permits for Lahaina because it was precedent setting in that all injection wells would then need a NPDES, and the state of Hawaii never had given out an NPDES permit and still hasn't really, done it satisfactorily. And, so the ocean and us converting what is transient, housing to resident housing through bill nine, taking away their revenue source. And the ocean belongs to all of us, including the creatures in the ocean. We're not thriving right there, so I wouldn't be supporting the motion.

Okay. But, I mean, I I wouldn't mind the 2,500,000, but still

k. 6,000,000 barrels. Member Johnson.

Thank you, chair. Some valid points were raised, and I

I

think that's

point.

It's just it it really needs a lot of help. So I also wanna remind everybody that the ocean center has a pipe that brings that water in, and that's the water they use for the aquarium. So it's it's pretty bad out there. I at the end of the day, the reef, the ecosystem, the creatures, they don't care about our dilemma. They just know the water's dirty, and they can't grow and thrive in there. And people eat those those taco and the fish that out that's out there. So I wanna try I I know it's been an uphill battle for them to get you know, make this happen, but let's not delay it anymore. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

K. Anybody did you Charlie. Oh, sorry about that, Charlie. Go ahead.

Okay. What about switching it to a bond project?

Stop. Yeah.

Just thought own it.

Yeah. It would be nice.

Oh, I see. I see. I see. It wouldn't

be nice.

Good. Okay. Member Senesse. And then I have something to say too. Who else has something to say? Member Cook did already. Member Browns Fernandez, do want to speak about this?

Mahalo, chair. So I don't know how much is generated in the TAT there. But when we try to increase the rates on non owner occupied, That's where money can also be generated from because they're also non owner occupied and TBRs. I think I'd be more supportive if it was our residents living there, but it's it's not. It's mostly used, for commercial purposes, and they should take responsibility if they're making money and exploiting the area.

I don't not support this project. I guess my question for my colleagues would be how much of the $10,000,000 are we you're you support all $10,000,000 minus the 1,000,000 EPA grant? Like, at what point because we're we're piecemealing the money right now. Like, we don't know the entirety of the plan generally when it's the CIP, or, you know, whatever project we're supporting, the the construction of. We we have an idea of when the funding is gonna start and when it stops.

And with this project, I asked that question, and I didn't get an answer. So I think, you know, as as we've and I see budget director turning her video on because that, to me, that's an like, we need to know what the commitment that we're, you know, making on behalf of the the taxpayers.

They did submit, an additional EM to answer, yesterday. Yesterday. I don't know if you read it, but I don't it has a, a Gantt chart. Can Is

it so the Gantt chart, is the construction, or does it include the funding NIC budget May I call on her?

Budget Director.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Rollins Fernandez. Yes, EM-three is in process, we hope to get it to you soon. But for purposes of this discussion, the total project cost is currently estimated at 12,480,000 to 16,140,000. Wow. Had discussions with them. The mayor has currently pledged to support the project up to 9 and a half million. That includes the 1.25 from last year and the 2.5 from this year. It will be spread over years. But I would also add that we've made it very clear to the Ma'alaya Village Association that any funding appropriated to them is contingent on council approval, and there are no guarantees for that funding. Thank you, Chair.

Member Senanci. Excuse me.

Thank you, Chair. I was

can

do ir then only

do

And I key to for the association? The

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Batangen. The 2,500,000 this year will allow the project to go shovel ready. And then we've been working with Ma'aleya Village Association to determine their needs as each year progresses. But I know they're trying to get this done sooner rather than later. Thank you, Chair.

So I guess that gives me some unease. If we are not given ir I think, up to a certain threshold pending council approval. I personally am with member Rollins Fernandez on this one. I feel like the benefits to the association have been privatized and they are publicizing the expenses and the environmental damage and that they're asking us to then fund the cleanup. I would be supportive of helping via our bonding system that would allow able do I able

And happening, and it's so,

hard going to not to act when we can. But I I don't feel good about Okay. Committing general bond or general funds for this, one, because of the precedent and two, just the specifics of the project itself. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Member Cook and then Member

Bolton. Thanks. Actually, is an interesting thing because I'm so in agreement with the not funding it. And I just came up with something. Is it possible to earmark the transit vacation tax from that facility because it's substantial for this? I'm just I'm just like, I don't I don't want to come out of every other tax payers. Don't want it to be like a give me, give me. And it is because that tax pay that tax basis for a variety of things. But I'm trying to in my mind, I justified this previously with a nexus between the the transit accommodation tax that those people are paying to pay for the stuff, the mess that they're making.

T t goes straight into the general fund, which this is coming out of the general fund.

So it is

And I'm just and there again, when I say I agree with you, I mean, it was a big leap for me to shift gears and be supportive because I felt that they should do a CFD. I felt that all the things that you've expressed and, being at the ocean center and going out to the bay and going to that park and going to the harbor and looking and just going like, I don't like it, but we can do something about it. And, anyway, enough said. I I just say that

k.

Not in agreement with a lot of thing. I'm I'm in agreement. I'm going to vote for it, to vote against the motion to cut it. But I feel a lot of alignment.

Okay. Member Johnson, you want to speak before we vote?

Second and final, I'll just say that, you know, back when all the processes were getting, created, Maui County as well as Ma'alaya Village Association or whatever they were back in the sixties, seventies or whatever, named got bad advice. The county was the one I mean, the county was told to do those nearshore injection wells and that it wouldn't be a problem. But then, you know, science and the test and reality, hey. It's a problem. You know?

And it would have been great if, Mara Arakawa would have just solved it without going to court, and we wouldn't have paid extra money. Maybe we would've had water by now, but that's not what happened. And then, I guess, I forget the guy's name that testified before that grew up at Ma'alai'ai, had said that they were they never wanted to be hotel. They never wanted to do all these things, but they were pressured into becoming hotels and, doing this. And so it's not like, the folks that were there set out saying, like, we wanna do hotels.

We want transient vacation rentals. It was the government or the system or whatever it was at that time that pushed into injection wells and like that. And it's basically when you know better, you need to do better. Because at that time, that was, like, considered, I guess, you know, better than doing number one and number two in a dirt hole and covering it up with dirt. You know? Like, oh, injection wells. That's when we even then science happened and reality happened. And they're like, no. No. That's not good.

And they're like, what do you mean it's not good? We just invested however many millions into injection wells. You said that's the way of the future. And then it's like, well, we discovered it's fucking or sorry. Messing everything up. So, I wouldn't put the blame on them for trusting science and listening. I don't know what that guy's name was, Peter or something. He's gonna might come and say, like, we never wanted to do this. This is what they made us do and whatever.

So Was it Gannon?

Sounds familiar. But, yeah, that's I mean, for guys that are just canning. Yeah. For the new guy, he didn't get to hear that last year. So just saying, like, we can't just point the finger at them because that guy was around, grew up there. He remembers the story and how he might share it if he gets word. That's all. Okay. Anybody else remember Batonga? Oh,

Charlie. K. Charlie. So I'm

I was just wondering if we could I could ask, court counsel a question if if there's any kind of liability to the county because the county is allowing, in a sense, this pollution to occur.

Corp counsel.

I have to have I want to double check on this, but I do I don't think right now the county is on the hook for this. However, right, it's a it's a it's

a resource for the whole county.

The harbor is a resource for the whole county?

Just the marine resources in that area.

Business there.

Johnson? Thank

you, chair. For my second final, you know, councilmember Paulin brought it up. Basically, it's the past policies that have enabled this this, thing to continue and this pollution that could keep happening. So I I feel like, you know, we're kinda locked in till we gotta clean up from the old decision makers. But what council member Patangan brought up is something that I often say, and I really that really hits the nail on the head on this situation where they privatize the gains and socialize the losses.

These are short term rentals. They make hand over fist when when the business is a booming. And but now all that due to water, we're responsible to clean it up. Remember, members, there's that the bill that I was proposing about the 20% of the TAT goes for the CARP, a section of the CARP to help clean that up. Not really a green fee, but

able to

that.

Ie do the knots of that. Bad decisions that we're dealing with, but also we're that privatizing the gains and socializing losses. We have to look at that and see the folks who are making all that money, they can't come here with crocodile tears when it comes to when we have to make those hard decisions. So that's that's all I wanted to bring up. I I I appreciate the the, you know, attempt to have this good discussion, but I I really can't support it this time. Thank you, chair.

Memories of this, right? So we had a former council member who thought we could use state revolving loan funds. Do you remember that? And not eligible because it's private, exactly. You can't bond it. It's not. And then the other thing that was proposed was for this to be connected to the Central Maui wastewater reclamation facility but that they didn't want. So I don't know if that opportunity is still available to them and now they're trying to do something else. So we're going able to to do And

that. Expectation is that they will have theirs up and running before the central Maui wastewater system is running. I'm super disappointed with the delays that continue to happen with that. That's one of my funding issues. Anyway, I think that was the issue. It wasn't that they didn't want to. It was because it was gonna add another four years to not having the treatment.

Well, time is ticking away. I think that it's a matter of how can you find the funding to pay for it. And the longer you wait, it gets more expensive. So are you all ready to vote? So the vote is to delete this from the budget on Page six. Item number two, which is $2,500,000 to be deleted. Are you ready? I guess, let's call roll call, think I can. Oh, yes, Member Rollins Fernandez.

Rollins Fernandez?

Member Rollins.

Oh,

okay. You call me Member Johnson. Okay. I know. We almost eyed out ago. In

the eyes.

The eye part. Yeah. That sincere eye. Budget director? Oh, there you are. Okay. Okay. In the, Gantt chart that we received from 2025, sorry, was trying to look for the answer on my own. Is this just an explanation of what was done with the 1,250,000 from county and 1,000,000 from EPA or what is the Gantt chart telling us?

Thank you, Chair. I'm pulling it up right now, but my understanding was that the Gantt chart was the timeline for the entire project.

Oh, okay. So it says, due date, and they all have, like, 2025. So it looks like it was all from, like, January 2025 to January 2026. Like, start date, due date, duration.

Sorry. I had scroll way down. Okay. I see. Yeah.

Let me look at Okay, I apologize. No, that's not the entire that is the project timeline through site work initiated August 2026. But I think they anticipate completing the work rather quickly. But, yeah, the construction would start in fiscal year 2027.

Okay. So And I can get clarification on the overall timeline. Got it. So what it's saying here with the due date of 2025 and the completion at 0%, it's saying that it they had projected that it would be done by 2025, what, May, October, April, but they didn't get it done. So, like, the building permit didn't get done by December 2025?

Yes. I believe they are still in the permitting process. It looks like they anticipate having their DOH permit submittal this September and the building permit in October.

Okay.

Mahalo for Our last question. Oh, okay. Charlie.

Charlie. And so, director Milner, so how much of a balance will there be? You said $12,000,000 right? $12,000,000 is the end number.

Thank you, Chair Lee. Yes, the project estimate currently ranges from either 12,500,000 to a little over 16,000,000. So that would be if we provide 9,500,000, that would be about 3,000,000 to 6,000,000. They would 3,000,000 to 5.5 that they would need to provide. And they're going to provide it by getting a loan of some kind? Doctor. They've received 1,000,000 in funding from the EPA and 250,000 from a private donor and I think they're looking for other funding sources as well.

Okay, thank you.

Member Johnson.

Sorry Chair, point of information. If the county does buy the ferry, there are grants that help fix up small boat harbors. Maybe that'll help with the infrastructure. Thank you Chair.

Okay. Anybody else? Always thinking. Okay. Let's vote. So the motion is to delete this. Remember, and Fernandez, we're still looking at the same motion, right? Yes. And we hope they come back and give us more information.

Roll call. Chair, proceeding with a roll call vote, Councilmember Tom Cook? No. Councilmember Gabe Johnson?

No.

Council Chair Alice Lee? No. Council Member Tamar Fulton? No. Council Member Keanu Rollins Fernandez? Aye. Council member Shane Senensi.

Aye.

Council member Nohe O'Hajans excused. Committee Vice Chair Konohi Batangen.

Aye.

Committee chair, Yukile Sugimura. Aye. Chair, that's four ayes, four noes, motion fails.

Oh, One excused.

Chair,

I thought I saw Nohe log on a little bit earlier. Is she is she with us?

Remember remember Wuhan Institute log on?

Hi, chair. I'm I'm here. Oh. But I logged in right when the roll call was, taking place, so I have no idea what you guys just voted.

So we're But

I am in my car with a minor right now, soon to have another minor in about two minutes. But I didn't yep. I have no idea what you guys just voted on. Okay. All I know, was a tie tie. Tie tie.

Then I recommend you log off because I don't think our rules allow you to be excused if you're present in the meeting, and you would be the deciding vote in this matter.

I think See you guys later.

See you. No. I think I think your video not being on.

Yes. We

can. That that would, like, make you officially present is your video being on because you could have be logged on and be at the bathroom.

You know what I mean?

This is Without your video on.

Right now. So I couldn't turn on my video because that would be a bad joke.

She's driving.

Yeah. So the vote was on the Ma'alaya Wastewater Facility for two point five million.

And the motion was to delete it and have them come back? And it motion failed. Okay.

Point of order, Chair?

Yes. Member Batongan.

Can I ask our OCS staff what constitutes being present in a meeting? Because I'm pretty sure you participate in conversation means that you're present. If I remember our rules correctly, silence is yes. Right? Like, if you chew if you don't vote while present

You you

Yes. It's recorded as a yes.

There's no abstention.

Correct. So can I ask staff to weigh in on

this? Who's the expert?

Peter.

Thank you, chair. From what I understand, council member Oo Hodgins was not on when the vote was taken technically. I mean, chair chair didn't recognize her, so I say she wasn't present. And k. I don't think she I mean, she didn't vote, obviously, but I don't think she was recognized either. And I think after the vote was made, then she came on. So that's my opinion.

Okay. I'm ready to move

on, Chair. Remember, Rollins Fernandez.

We're talking about procedure and process. This is my favorite. So I I, I agree with, member Batanggan. If you are physically present in the chamber and you're silent, then, your vote would be in the affirmative. If, you know, you're physically here but you're in the restroom, then, you know, you're excused.

If you're logged on to the meeting, but your video is off or we cannot see you, like how sometimes we say, like, Member Sinensei, we can't see you. Yeah. And then and then he'll, like, come back into the video, and then he'll vote. Then, you know, then the vote will count. But if a video is off and we can't confirm that a council member is present in front of the, the computer in order to vote, then don't to be in the bathroom.

You can just be in the gallery too. As long as you're not on the floor. If you're on the floor, then

you say gonna go that deep in detail. But Just say. Okay. If you're not in your seat. But sometimes I voted like coming down the walkway.

Okay. On the floor. I'll be on

the Is it I

wasn't trying to argue this to flip the vote just to be to to

that. To do So in DEM. So CIP is in Bill 55, pages 21 to 22. Does any member have any amendments? No? None? Okay. Next we have appendix A part one grants. Anybody have any proposal? This is page 39.

Don't see anything. Appendix A part two Special Revenue Purpose. As a reminder, the following funds are under this department. Countywide sewer capital improvement reserve fund section nine-fourteen revised chart of the county of Maui 1983 as amended chapter 3.98 Maui County Code, which is on page 51.

I was gonna decrease the increase to 5%, but we already did that last year and it didn't work out well. So I'll save you

guys two hours. Okay. I have a question for our budget director. The countywide, are you there? Budget director? There. I see you. Okay. Thanks. The countywide sewer capital improvement reserve fund increased by $6,000,000 for fiscal year twenty seven totaling $9,798,101 in fiscal year twenty six. The estimated and total balance was 3,798 and $101 With no anticipated revenue for fiscal year twenty twenty six, can you explain the additional $6,000,000 and where did it come from?

Thank you, Cher. I can look into that, but my assumption is that the additional estimated balance may be to prior year appropriations that weren't fully encumbered, that those funds then went back into the fund or funding that was encumbered but not fully needed and it went back into the fund.

I can get you exact information on that. Okay. It's like carryover savings?

Ish? In a way, but it stays within the revolving fund.

Okay. Thank you. If you could get back to us then. Highway beautification, abandoned vehicle, and tourism related traffic congestion revolving fund section 3.25.030 Maui County Code which is on page 53 as well as the Naval Air Station Kahului Airport, Naska, as we grew up knowing it. Sewage Pumps Station Fund Chapter 3.52 Maui code, which is on page 55.

Vehicle disposal fee fund, chapter 3.27, Maui code, which is on page 58. These are the proposed or are there any proposed amendments to this? It doesn't look like it. So we will move on. Next we have Appendix B rates and fees. Appendix B rates and fees, page five to 11 increases for sewer rates, increases for claim water services, increases for refuse collection fees is here. Are there any proposed amendments to rates and fees? I see none. Okay. So we will move on.

So that is the end of environmental management. Yay. Moving on. The next department that we have is finance. There are no members' priorities and this is excluding countywide. No members' priorities. Operating budget is on page eight. Are there any amendments? Member Palton. Which is a and b account.

Yeah. Finance, but not Countywide, excluding Countywide.

I'll just do them one at a time. Okay. I moved to decrease, a one category a by 18,919 sorry, $18,900. K. K. That's to my applied or if I get a second. Member Sannensi gave you

a second.

My recommendation on how that is applied is to decrease the accounting one fiscal year twenty six expansion position that hasn't been created yet by four months.

Okay. Is it on your sheet? Is it on your sheet?

This one? It's on my sheet. Yes. Under, ADM, admin.

It's the one that say number eight. It's like 5 five eight.

Okay. Any discussion?

Did that All my finance, cuts, I did talk to the director when she gave us the certification, and she didn't raise any

red flags. Okay. You're fine with this. Are you making one at a time? Alright. Few at a time.

For the benefit of our excellent staff, they've been working so hard. I don't wanna confuse them. So if we're ready to vote on this one, I'll do my next one next.

Members, ready to vote? All in favor, raise your hand, say aye. Aye. So it looks like nine ayes. Member one excuse. Member Oh Hodgins. Member Paulton.

And for my next motion, I will be decreasing B1 category A by 22,108 B is the accounts program, folks, accounts. Okay. Second is member Sanenci. For this, I'm decreasing fiscal year twenty seven expansion positions, both of them by two months. So from eight months to six months.

And finance has, really stepped it up in filling their vacancies, doing d m 80 nines, their recruitments and retentions. I wouldn't even recognize this department's category a from like six years ago. So

Pretty good.

That's my discussion.

Okay. Members, any more discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your hand, say aye. Aye. So that's eight ayes and one excused member, Oho Jins. You got that, right? Staff? And

for my

next motion in small c per n1 category a, I moved to decrease by $43,272.

Okay. Second second member, Rollins Fernandez.

So, this is a senior clerk vacancy inactive and vacant since 2019. So just helping them, you know, rip that band aid off, defunding it for twelve months. They may wanna you know, we have a problem with the senior clerk, like, can live on that kind of salary, really. So they might wanna reallocate it or whatever. Like k. If you have a couple kids, you you could qualify for 30% AMI. You know?

Second job. Kate, member all in favor? Members? Okay. Raise your hand and say aye. So we are at eight ayes and one excused member, Oh Hodgins.

And for my next motion, category a and d, which is motor vehicle licensing. These are all fiscal year twenty seven expansion positions. They ask for eight months of funding. I'm gonna give them four months. And I understand the the switch is to focus on customer service and less wait time, so that's why I'm not totally defunding it. K. I said the amount.

Yeah. 62,000. 62,000. Well, how much? 400. 400. Okay. Motion made by member Palton. Second by member Rollins Fernandez. Any more discussion? No? Okay. All in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Eight ayes. One excused. Member Oh Hudgens.

And for my next motion and final one in this, department, is f, accounts. I don't wanna say this is the skirt finance, but, there's been absolutely no movement on these accounting two positions, have been created in fiscal year twenty one. So I'm completely defunding them, a $122,568 cut. You got that? You got that?

Okay. Second. Oh, sorry. And, for my discussion, I'll just throw in there that treasury is the shining star of the entire department. Good job, guys. So proud of you. And we purchasing too.

Okay. Ready to vote, you guys.

Sorry. Let me treasury is not the shiny purchasing is the shiny star. Treasury needs to work on their act.

Okay. So the motion is for how much is it? One?

$122,005.68 treasury cutting because no movement since fiscal year twenty one when these accountant two positions were were asked for. So, yeah, my bad treasury. Let's get it together. Purchasing. Good job.

Gold star. Okay. All in favor? Yes. Oh, second was member Cook. Roll call. Roll call. Okay.

Call. Chair, proceeding with the roll. Oh, wait.

One second. Can I chair?

Yes. Can I

have a little bit of discussion? At least I you can understand why I'm gonna be voting no. I'm not sure exactly why the treasury department did not fill its position, but it has been doing a good job because they made $30,000,000 for us in this last fiscal year. So that's why I'm voting no.

Okay.

I

would say they can't fill it until they create it, then they can't post it until they create it, and it's never been done since fiscal year twenty one. Just saying good job on collecting, but, position creation, not

sure can.

Can. I'm I'm

the of

of

the Directors one no. Motion passes.

Thank you. Okay. So we are basically done with oh, you have something, Member Batongen.

Chair, but before I make another motion, budget director is asking to be recognized. I'll hold

off. Okay. Ms. Balmir?

Thank you so much, Chair. Yeah, you guys were moving fast and furious on that one. I did have a request from the Department of Finance for possible reconsideration of the cut to the accounts program. That program was 50% full. Are now completely staffed and these two positions are specifically to address some of the internal controls findings. They've been getting very good candidates for positions of this type and feel confident they can fill them quickly. Thank you,

chair. Member Palton.

Do they need to undergo a reorg to create these positions? You probably wrote it down, but I don't remember the answer.

No reorg is necessary for these positions.

Okay. I'm open to a reconsideration. Want, the full eight months?

Yes, please. If the body's willing to consider it. Thank you, chair.

Okay. I move to reconsider the accounts program. Vote.

Second. Okay. And you gonna change it to eight months. Is that what you said?

Depending if the reconsideration passes.

Oh, sorry. Okay. Reconsideration. All in favor, raise your hand. Say aye. So that's eight ayes and one excused, member Oho Hodgins.

I withdraw my motion.

You withdraw your motion. No objection. Yes. Okay. You got that? Exhibit A in motion. Member Batongu.

Thank you, Chair. I had three positions that I was targeting to cut, but two of them overlapped with Member Palton. I'm trying to do some quick math on the fly. There were two service representative ones and four service representative twos in the motor vehicle and licensing program. The explanation for the expansions was to help the department.

Did you make a motion?

Oh, I moved to cut one of those service representatives ones and two of the service representative twos in the motor vehicle and licensing program. I'll actually, I'll separate them. So I have time to do math. I moved to cut the salaries and for a service representative one in the motor vehicle and licensing program in the amount of $20,848. And if I can get a second, I can explain my thinking.

I need a second. Member Coke. Second. Okay. For discussion.

Thank you, chair. So the explanation given for these service representative expansion positions was that the department wanted to better be able to meet their target wait times. But then when they came before the body, they explained that they were already hitting those target wait times. So I didn't see the need for six expansion positions to help them achieve those targets and figured we could cut the funding for half of them. One service representative one and then two of the service representative twos. Given that they've already met the objectives that they were trying to achieve by adding these EPs.

Okay. So it's a decrease of $28,848

Yes.

Clarifying this is oh, sorry. Clarifying question. These are for the expansion positions? Correct. Okay.

So this is the one that you didn't cut half the funding for. You cut half the funding for the service representative twos, but there's a service representative one that I'm proposing to fully decrease the funding for.

So Chair are you done? Chair? Chair Lee has a question also. Well, we're in discussion, right?

Yep. There's a motion on the on the floor. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, I'll be voting no against this because have you been down to DMV lately? I've been in waiting kinda long, so I don't think they hit all their targets yet. Thank you.

Okay. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Mahalo, chair. And then, question again for, member with Hong Kong. So we've been, using the amount, or we've been using the example of the position as the justification for the amount of the cut to account A, but your motion is specifically to that position. So the clarifying question is whether it's to that specific position or if account A salaries.

Thank you, Member Rollins Fernandez. Yes, would amend it to be a cut to the A account rather than to the position itself so that the department would have flexibility. But I would still move to cut that funding amount and the explanation for that number is what I had previously stated. Thank you.

Okay. Very good. Member Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. Bless you. Do we have a location of where these positions would be at? I see Director okay. So we have Lahaina, Kihei, Pukeulani and another Kihei. Director Milner popped up. Yes, I see Go ahead.

Chair, thank you, Councilmember Johnson. Yes, the service representative one that is under discussion right now is a back office position that would be in the Kahului office.

And I see Director Martin on call as well. Thank you, Chair.

I

know, but this is kind of like asking a department question which we didn't allow any of you to have. So I'm a little bit hesitant of opening that door then you're gonna say, well, Connoy did it. So how come I can't do it? She she's not there anymore.

Okay. Sorry. Just The way it works is miss Martin would whisper in miss Milner's ear. That's true. And then we ask miss Milner whatever the question is.

That is true. It was operation stuff. Please And she's sitting in front of miss Milner. Okay. Member Batangan, who had that question?

Asked where they would be

located at. And Member Palton found the answer.

Yeah. So I too have been in the Kaholi Center with long lines, and I'm a little hesitant to cut that it this is the DMV, man. They need all the help they can get. I that's the can

And thing that

to do And

I thing

we're And

that. Is only

I

But I And just wanted for them, everybody working there, this is not a criticism of the department at all. This is just a little tweaking in the financing. And I just wanted to say that they were doing a great job.

Okay. Member Batongan, second and final.

Thank you, Chair. I guess I do appreciate the wait times that some of my colleagues have experienced. I guess my response would be that my proposal is in response to the statistics of the department themselves have reported. And so if you're telling me that you need expansion positions in order to hit certain milestones, but you're also telling me that you're hitting those milestones, I'm probably gonna question them. So I don't wanna question the lived experiences of some of my colleagues. And, you know, we can always do better at providing services to our constituents. But I am then gonna ask that the reporting reflect those experiences. Thank you, members. Okay.

Let's vote. Yeah. Ready? Okay. Is this gonna oh, it's gonna be a

roll call. Think, Chair Lee. Roll call, please. Chair, proceeding with the roll call vote, council member Tom Kuo.

Aye.

Council member Gabe Johnson. No. Council chair Alice Lee. No. Council member Tamara Poulton? No. Council member Keani Rollins Fernandez? No. Council member Shane Senensi?

No.

Council member Nohee Woo Hajins excused. Committee vice chair Kono I Batangen?

Aye.

Committee chair Yuki Lei Sugimura? Aye. Chair, that's three ayes. Diagnose one excused. Motion of

of of of

the the budget detail, the proposed budget, February proposed budget. Basically, eliminate or delete in the administration program machinery and equipment. And I'll give you the numbers. 907014147032 under software software programs, 50,000. If I get a second I

can Okay, need a second. Second. Member Palton. Second. The cut

of the $50,000 for software to track internal control procedures and assess risk, that's what we're cutting. So the funding may be delayed until the completion of professional services and consultant report on addressing and enhancing internal control processes and procedures. Basically, they're paying a consultant to report to them on how they enhance internal control processes. So I would prefer them to wait to the report to be done so that that software would address something in the report. You don't wanna buy the software before the report's done because what if the software is not recommended by the report?

The report is saying this is what you need to get to help enhance internal control processes. So I think they're tied and it's literally the cart before the horse. So I would prefer we just delete that until that report is done, then we could have the administration put in the funds for whatever software

they would deem necessary. Okay. Member Oo Hodgins just joined us. Hello. So we're deleting 50,000 as described by Member Johnson.

I'll also add that the letter in the response was an FN2.

Okay. FN2.

And Chair, I think Member Uhu Hajins wanted to do her disclaimer. Oh.

Yes, please. Thank you. Hi. I'm at my personal residence, I do have two minors with me at home. Sorry. I know I missed a lot. The back country roads don't really have good service. Plus, I don't want you guys to, like, look up at my face while I'm driving, so I would not turn on my camera. But I'm here now. I've been kinda listening, off and on. Sometimes it cuts out some, but thank you so much for your guys' patience. I appreciate it. Okay.

Thank you. And director Milner is on the

Director Milner and then member Rollins Fernandez. Thank

you, chair. Thank you, council member Johnson. Yes, I've spoken to the department about this and the internal control software can be up concurrently with the finalization of the report. It doesn't have to wait until that report is complete. The hope is that we can start this in the finance department, have it up and running. So as soon as we have those results, we can launch the software countywide and really address any concerns raised by the report. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Mahalo, Chair. I have now helped to get two softwares for us set up, and sometimes it does take phasing. So you would meet with the, the company that designs the software for you, and you do, like, a phase. Well, I don't I don't know how this one is, but I know, like, when we were working with Tyler Technology, for example, in doing, when we were trying to figure out a better, system for, like, our meetings. And then we well, we ended up with Civic Plus instead of going with Tyler Technologies.

And we also had OpenGov, and that was like a whole process in and of itself. So having done that, I know that sometimes it it it's done in phases, and it's sometimes paid in phases. And sometimes, you you need to, work with the developer to design the the software, you know, to, yeah, to customize it for your needs. And so I don't know if that's what this is for, but that's some experience that I have to share. All through. That said, I'm not going to

support the motion. Okay. Member Poulton. I

just don't want to be penny wise pound foolish if we're talking about internal controls and, fraud risk. So I probably won't support.

Okay. Member Batonga.

Thank you, chair. Can I ask budget director to come back online? So part of member Johnson's explanation for wanting to cut this is because he wanted the results of the report to come out that would then inform which software we would be procuring. Has there been communications with the auditors of the report that gives the county confidence that this is the software? I don't mind spending the money to procure software to this effect, but I want to make sure that the concerns raised by Member Johnson when he made this proposal have all been addressed before we make our decision.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, council member Betvangan. No software has been procured yet. We will have to go through the RFP process. That's another reason we wanna start the process sooner rather than later. But the county does feel they have enough information from the documentation that's been received to date to put together a successful RFP to get a software that can address the concerns of the auditors. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Any

more discussion? Okay. Ready for the vote. So the motion is to delete the 50,000 and wait for until we have more information. Remember, Johnson? Is that what you're saying? Before we spend 50,000.

Yes. And you know, in the in the letter, it said that they could delay it. And now I'm hearing different from the department. So that's why I proposed the cut because I asked them. Now I'm kind of in a conundrum because, you know, I wanna work with the I'm I'm not

if

I I I still kinda feel like if we're gonna go through this process where we ask you quest ask the department's questions and they say, yeah. Well, you you know, we can wait. And then now it's a little bit different. They can always come back and and use