16 Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good morning everybody. Welcome to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. Today is Friday. Wow, this whole week has gone by and all of you have worked hard. This morning we have before us public works and personnel. Is my name is Yuki Lei Sugimura. I'm the chair of this committee and this meeting is being conducted in accordance with the sunshine law. And as a reminder, when your name is called, if you're not in the council chamber, please identify by name who, if anyone, is in the room, vehicle, or workspace with you today. Minors do not need to be identified. Good morning Vice chair Battengan. Morning chair. Morning members. Good morning. Good morning, member Cook.

Good morning chair. Welcome all.

And member Johnson, you are on Lanai. Member Johnson, good morning.

Morning, Chair, Councilmembers Kimmy Morris. There's no testifiers here at the Lanai District Office, and we're preparing for the storm that seems to be a little bit slower in coming, but it's not here yet. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Chair Lee, I do not see her. She'll join us. Member Paulson, good morning.

Hello. Kakayako. Kako, streaming live and direct from Napili. I'm at my kitchen table. I have with me one adult male named George V. Era and one minor canine.

Thank you. Good morning. Member Rollins Fernandez. I don't see her yet. Member Sanenci, good morning. He's here in the chambers.

Hello, Kakayaka, Chair. Sorry, just hopping on the meeting now. Okay. Good morning.

Good morning. Member Ou Hodgins will be joining. Oh, there you are, Member Ou Hodgins. Good morning.

Good morning. Good Good morning, everyone. I'm at my private residence alone, and I'm looking forward to Friday's meeting. Thank you.

Yeah. Good morning. We have done a whole week of this and more to come. Thank you everybody and we will greet those members when they join us here in the council chambers. Assisting us with today's meeting is the BFED committee staff and also invited resource members from the administration which include the budget director who we are married to for the next month. Where are you? Oh, there you are. There you are. Okay. And the director of public works, Director of Personnel Services, Deputy Corp Counsel Wigglesworth.

Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Thank you members for attending today's BFED meeting. We have one item on the agenda today. And before we get started I wanted to announce a big congratulation to Maui's own Faith Kealoha Paole Paredes. Yay. She's Miss Aloha. Hula. Yeah. She won yesterday, Yes. And as we all know the Paredes family is part of our Ohana, right?

And so we'd like to also congratulate their parents Honani and Iliahi as well as they must be having a blast at the Merry Monarch Festival and celebrating. I do remember talking to Miss Aloha Hula several years ago and they said once they win, their time is really dedicated to portraying the spirit of aloha and appearing. And it it is a big part of your life. So anyway, congratulations. And I hope somebody like maybe Charlie or mister Member Batangan, I'm not too sure where they live but maybe we can do a congratulatory resolution.

Agenda items for today is BFED one proposed fiscal year twenty seven budget for the County Of Maui. I will testimony be after opening comments from the departments. Budget. We have the departments of public works and personnel. At this time, I'd like to invite the department of public works to provide their opening comments and then we'll do personnel next. Director Molina, good to see you here. Thank you. I know you must have been working have been working company.

That's question.

I

And

I've been entrenched in PFED letters for the last three days, I'm ready to go.

That's pretty good. Thank you. That's your whole presentation?

Oh, no. Sorry. Chair, I don't have any formal presentation prepared, but what I thought I'd do because we didn't get a chance to return our letter to you folks. If you don't mind, I'd like to use my opening comments to review some of the responses to the questions that we have been plowing through to get responses to as a way hopefully to move along the meeting this morning.

Okay. Proceed. Members and the public, Director Molina used to be Office of Counsel Services. So he understands how we work. He worked in budget committee and did really well. When I got the budget committee and I spoke to him, he goes, wow, that's fun. That's how he thinks. With all his experience. So he must be fun to work with, right? Budget director. Some

may say that. But yeah. Yeah. So for the record, I'm director Jordan Molina, director with Department of Public Works. Here with me is my Deputy Director, Paul Barony. And some of our division staff are also on the Teams call.

Who's on?

Oh, let's see. I know we have all our division heads that are on and some of the other support staff. Okay.

Do you have Kyle Ganoza?

He should be on. Okay.

Thank you.

Yes. So fortunate to be here. This is my tenth budget session, and I've handled it from every chair in this room. Fortunate to have been able to gain the experience and be with you folks here today. So first item, you folks in first of we're with vacancies in our personnel team who are integral to getting expansion positions and reorganizations processed and approved.

So this year, our expansions are focused in a few areas, primarily with our flood program and trying to grow our support with an additional engineer position. We currently operate with one engineer and she's been doing a tremendous job keeping us able on on

our

own. Own. Own. We're going our structure to ensure we can provide deliver reliable services. So we have several expansion positions from the boots on the ground to our mid tier and upper tier management to help us get a handle on the day to day facility operations and also the repair and maintenance programs that we oversee.

Fortunately, we like to buy old buildings, so that comes with a lot of work. And then the last big change we have is we is really just an accounting adjustment where we're reorganizing our garages to break them out into individual districts. We already do this for Molokai and Lanai, but historically, Maui has been lumped together. And so to improve cost tracking and accountability for those programs, we've split them up into each district. So now there's a garage index for each of our districts across the six able in of first We share see ins this year, I believe, or in fiscal twenty twenty seven as well as the acquisition of the prosecutor's offices at the Wailuka Executive Center.

And then the other big one is expansion in professional services in our special maintenance program to support our MS4 and our drainage maintenance efforts that are undertaken by our highways division. Regarding our vacancies, there are currently 60 vacancies on the books, but really, most of those are inactive recruitment. And so when you run Workday reports, it will show you everything that doesn't have a body in it. But that's not necessarily representative of the process to fill those to to do And very the

the And

to

to

next

very we've

20. And those lists are pleased empty. And despite the pay adjustments that were incorporated with the engineering salary schedule, we still are limited on how much we can offer on the pay range, particularly for the unlicensed engineers. And so we continue to see the list be empty. Then some of the other positions are just those that are frequent turnovers, our laborers, our plan reviewers, and again, challenging competing in the marketplace, primarily on salary and being able to really offer growth in pay at the county for some of those frontline positions.

So we'll have that in our response back to you folks. Let's see. Budget director just noted we did transmit our PW-one late last night to you folks. But yeah, because I know you guys didn't have a chance to review appreciate the indulgence in letting me walk through it. As I mentioned earlier, we do have a challenge with our personnel team of just, you know, it's hard to fill that team And Public Works is a beast of a department.

We just have a great diversity of program on top of the scale. And so that keeps our HR team very, very busy. As a result, we've been unable to really complete a lot of the expansion positions from FY twenty twenty six solely because I don't have those key admin people that are needed to do those functions in preparing and processing reorgs, preparing and processing position descriptions and creation requests and just all the coordination that goes into creating a position. So I think of all the positions we asked for, only one, we've been able to get two interviews. And unfortunately, no one wants to work for us right now.

So we have gone through a recruitment. No one's accepted a position. And so we're trying again to see and also evaluating whether we consider an alternate position and perhaps there may be more candidates for. Regarding our overtime, several drivers of overtime, of course, are unplanned work, which is our emergency response after And then we have the

year.

The traffic during the days. So we do have

OT the booked for those purposes. Work in remote locations that require additional travel time by crews are another cause of OT incurrence for planned work. And of course, when we have critical deadlines, particularly with funding for projects, those create needs for OT. But the largest one, of course, is just due to vacancies. I do want to shout out to our team because you can't incur OT without people willing to work.

And we have a strong team that is willing to put in the time and is dedicated to the services we provide that not everyone is willing to work the OT. So it is cost but it's also representative of the commitment of our staff to try and keep us afloat as we face our challenges with vacancies. Director? Yes.

Can I just a second? I want to welcome Chair Lee. Welcome to the meeting and then Member Rollins Fernandez next.

Chair Lee? Good morning. Sorry for my tardiness. I am home alone in my workspace. Looking forward to your meeting. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. And you both have been sitting there for a while, so I'm sorry to interrupt you. But Member Bronze Fernandez, welcome.

I am at my private residence alone here at my kitchen table. Will have schools canceled, both my minors are here, as well as well, my husband will be back, McKenna Fernandez. And they're currently no testifiers at the Molokai district office. My apologies for being late. Report a call about gas prices on Molokai, I had a lot to say about that, and we'll probably talk about that today as well. Wow.

What is it? What is the gas price today in Molokai?

Oh, I haven't checked today, but the last it was like $7.00 7 and $7.00 9. Way more than sorry. Yeah. 7. Yeah. 7. Okay. Way more way more than Lanai.

Oh,

So remember Johnson, she may be calling you too because I I told that I told her that you said that gas prices are only, like, 4 or something then.

$4.99.

Yeah. $4.99 because they're subsidized by the company. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Welcome both. And sorry I took a while to introduce you. Okay. Director, please continue.

Thank you.

I

could tell you you're gonna go on and on.

Yeah. Yeah. If if yeah. And please stop me if you feel this is not helpful.

No. You try not to answer our questions in writing,

No. I said we sent PW1 last night, so you'll get those. But yes, appreciate the indulgence. So as far as there was a question on CIP priority. And so for us, we can clearly call out our DPW base yard facilities program is one we feel like we can endure without if necessary.

We've been operating in some of our base yards for nearly one hundred years already, and I'm sure a couple more years, the guys can manage. But that is something that I personally have been trying to pursue, just seeing how much work we do and with how little facility some of our districts have to operate in, it's, commendable. And I think it's past due to revitalize some of our facilities across the county. As far as department priorities, I mean, personal management continues so, going able do that. We're be able of

to

And our We have a heavy lift still with supporting wildfire recovery now And with the infusion of the CDBG Doctor infrastructure funding. So our engineering team is working to be able to deliver on those projects within the tight schedules we've been given on top of, yes, last couple of weeks, getting a whole bunch of new projects added to our plate with the flooding impacts we've encountered. We're we're we're going able do do

that. That.

Our response during the last few weeks and prior events. And we just continue to try and improve where we can to service our communities. So now I'm going to pivot into some of the PW2 questions. So the first couple regarding county compensation programs. This question about department's involvement in supplemental agreements.

Since I've been here, there's been very limited engagement with the departments on the supplemental agreements that come out. So we're not privy to those discussions. We just learn about them once they're done. Think one of the question regarding how to become more competitive, one of the things we've been trying to resolve is how do we incentivize our high performing staff. And unfortunately, the current performance evaluation program administered by DPS really only provides disincentives for poor performers.

Anybody who receives a satisfactory or an exceeds on their performance rating gets nothing more than a pat on the back. And it's definitely a source of discouragement and frustration for those staff that want to excel at what they do here at the county. We've tried to propose programs that would allow for that, but unfortunately, we have not been supported in our request to do so.

We, lost Sean online. Is there still talking? He's thinking. So are you? Sorry. Oh, okay.

Yeah. He's going question by question and digesting the question, and now he will say something.

Oh, okay. My bad. Sorry.

No. No.

The Akaku is off, and I've seen his mouth still moving on the TV. So I I guess it's not synced.

Not synced.

You. Think with that, I'll end my opening comments and we'll be here for questions. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate your work and appreciate you sharing with us your thoughts. So next we have, department of, personnel services. Director is online, not with us. Right? Director, Rosal Porter. Is she there? Yeah. She is there. Okay. Hi. Good morning. Oh, good morning.

Budget and Finance Committee. I'm sorry I couldn't be there with you, but we're kind of in another meeting and got lost track of time a little bit. But it's good to be with you. Short presentation, just kind of want to highlight the high level changes in our budget. It's a 16% increase from And our we are asking for a few things, digitized documents.

We do have some expansion requests for an investigator five, really in support of departments. We did transmit our letter to you in response, to that request, and also looking for a public information officer to help promote county job opportunities, kind of just specific to the roles and duties that counties provide and just educating the public essentially. We'll be open for questions and appreciate your time.

Okay. That's it? Yes. Oh, very good. Okay. Nice seeing you. So members at this time then, I'm gonna take public testimony. I see Autumn Ness in the audience. And do we have other testifiers? We do. Yeah. Okay. We will. Okay. Public testimony.

Anyone who would like to sign up, please join us either online or in the sign up on the desk outside in the lobby. And testimony is not limited only to today's agenda, which is everything in our budget. Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via the e comment link at mauiconny.us agendas as well. Under the sunshine law, the chair will receive oral testimony for agenda items at the beginning of the meeting and as the item is called up. For individuals wishing to testify via Teams, please raise your hand by clicking on the raise your hand button.

If calling in, please follow the prompts via phone, star five and raise your and lower your hand, star six to mute and unmute. Staff will add names to the testifier list in the order testifiers sign up or raise their hands. For those on Teams, staff will lower your hand and once your name is added, staff will then call the name you've logged in under the last four digits of your phone number when it's your time to testify. At that time, staff will also enable your microphone and video. Please ensure your name appears in Microsoft Teams as the name you prefer to be referred to as anonymous or as anonymous if you wish to testify anonymously.

If you're in person, please notify staff if you would like to testify anonymously. Otherwise, please state your name for the record at the beginning of your testimony. Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item and if you're not done testifying, you'll be given another thirty seconds to complete. Once you're done testifying or if you do not wish to testify, you can also view the meeting on Akaku Channel fifty three Facebook Live or mauicounty.us/agendas. We will do our best to take each person up in an orderly fashion and will now call on testifiers wishing to testify staff.

Thank you. Thank you, chair. The first testifier is Autumn Ness to be followed by Travis Leggett.

Good morning. Good morning. Aloha, everybody. It's hard to believe that it's budget season again. Sending love to you guys as you navigate this whole thing. I'm always shocked that we successfully complete this process every year, so go team. It's not my subject matter day, but was canceled. I came here today even though it's a different subject matter. They say an annual report is worth 1,000 words. So I brought seal LCLT's 2025 report.

Things move so fast right now. It's already a little of date, but you'll get the idea. The back of the second page has stats on progress. The back of the third page is stats about land sales in Lahaina. At the time of publish, LCLT was the buyer in 20% of the 66 parcel sales in Lahaina post fire. Data published in late twenty twenty three predicted that 20% of Lahaina's real estate would change hands in the three ish years after the fire. So that 20% stat seems important in both cases. That prediction is of breathing down our neck right now, though. This coming August will be three years. Recent reports indicate that the first settlement installments could go out in April 2026.

As soon as the settlement is signed, we anticipate a huge wave of land sales as most folks who intend to sell were advised by attorneys to wait until the settlement decision as it affects their payout. We have an internal list of folks in that situation who contacted us directly and plan to sell as soon as settlement is signed, and there are plenty more we don't know about. In fact, over the last few months, we actually had to buy a few of the parcels from the people in that boat who just couldn't hang on any longer. And here's the thing. If we know that, so do the big investors with strike capital in their pocket and Lahaina in their crosshairs.

We've been building our own strike funds so we can cut those investors off. We have a $5,000,000 angel donor with an active matching grant campaign, about 30 local businesses who donate some of their profits regularly to our land fund. It's an all hands on deck situation. That said, if you know me, you know I don't like to keep coming back to ask for more money. When we rolled out Maui Hub, the commitment was to get it started and then fly on its own, and that's largely what happened.

So believe me when I tell you that it's really hard for me to come here for the third year in a row and keep asking for more money than I've ever asked for. And yet, if I wasn't honest about the current situation, I would not be doing my job. So here's where it gets awkward. In mayor's Lahaina community budget hearing some months ago, he announced that LCLT was in his proposal for $6,000,000. Oh my god.

Yay. This current fiscal year, he and you folks allocated $6,000,000 in the department of housing, but general funds. So I assumed, I know, assumptions that this would be the same. Then separately, we were advised to apply through the RFP for affordable housing funds specifically for vertical construction. So we submitted a 2,700,000 application specifically for vertical construction, and, yay, we got a letter that that was included in the mayor's affordable housing proposal. Cool. But there's no 6,000,000. So I'm assuming what happened, good intentions, that folks probably saw our $2,700,000 application and thought, oh, great. We'll award that 2.7. They don't need the 6.

Everything's good. Do I have, like, two more seconds? Okay. So I'm in the awkward position to have to stand here and thank the whole team for the 2.7 doll million dollar allocation because we are at the big vertical construction phase. While I also feel obliged to share with you that we have a big and continued land acquisition need and to admit that had I known the $2,700,000 application of affordable housing funds was gonna cancel out the $6,000,000 of general fund allocation, I wouldn't have submitted that application.

For now, our first two families are home. Our homeowner applicant portal will go live any day now, and our first home will go up for sale as soon as we get the oulu trees planted. And we really hope the big window of need for rapid land acquisition will be behind us in the next year or two. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions for Autumn Ness?

Member Palton.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Ness. I just was, seeing if you had other sources of funding besides the 2.7, or are you going after other funds elsewhere Yeah. As well?

When I see this is all hands on deck, I am so proud of everybody that's gotten behind this. We've got foundation funders like Weinberg, Frost, Newestro, Mal United Way. All all the names you probably know in philanthropy, have have put into this repeatedly sometimes. Those 30 local businesses, that $5,000,000 angel loner, everybody understands that this is like a very short and expensive window that we're in. Yeah. Which makes me feel better about coming to ask you guys for more because it's not just the county. Yeah.

Would the angel donor, I'm not sure how close we are to the 5,000,000, but would they also match county funds as well? Oh, that

is a great question. We have been real so when she came up with this, I've been trying to she's a great human, clearly. We've been trying to really this was to get new money off off the shelf. Like, she was like, if I put money here, is that gonna attract folks who have been hesitant? So we haven't used that match opportunity for funds that we really believed were already coming our way. We're really trying to maintain some integrity here. However, if I were to go back to her and tell her about this conversation and that the county, you know, is coming in because of that match, I imagine that would be doable.

You know? And how much more of the 5,000,000 is there?

We just started. And like I said, we're being very careful about what we qualify as a match to maintain, you know, trust. So I think we're, like, almost at the first million. So there's another four on the table.

Okay. Thank you. I'll yield. Thanks for the question.

Thank you. So the fund that you're talking about affordable housing is number four and up to $2,461,000 must be for a grant to Lahaina Community Land Trust. That's what you're referencing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry. I thought it was 27. Call

me. 4.

24. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Member Rollins Fernandez. Mahalo, Chair. Mahalo, Ms. Ness, for your testimony. You mentioned the 6,000,000 that was proposed at one meeting. Do you know if it was meant to be in like affordable housing fund? Because I know the situation in Lahaina, some lots aren't necessarily would qualify for affordable. Or if it was proposed to be like general funds so that it would provide the flexibility to the organization to protect as many lots and homes as possible.

Gosh, you know, looking back, I regret digging down into that a little bit more, but we're also overworked. I kinda so in this in the arc of things, our first year of funding for housing came out of affordable housing funds. Yeah. So we had that was the thing. The second year, that 6,000,000 that was allocated was in the Department of Housing, but it was general funds.

And that came out of the recognition that we are gonna need some of these houses to be available for folks who are over one forty AMI. Like, LCLT's policy goes all the way up to if you the household can make $300,000 a year because there's just no house for even that. Right? So the understanding was more funding, a little bit less strings. And so I just kind of assumed without asking, I regret that, that that was the intention when he announced that. But I don't know anymore. I'm really sorry.

Mahalo, Ms. Ness. Mahalo. Okay.

Thank you. Anybody else have questions? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Oh, I

see Alice. Hi.

Oh, sorry. Didn't see you.

Charity. Thank you. Hi, Autumn. Hi. I'm just wondering, you know those higher priced houses you're talking about, are they going to have deed restrictions on them? Oh, all of them. Yeah.

All of our houses, whether it's a deed restriction or a ground lease, they come with the same 1.5%, appreciation cap. And if you look at what our our portfolio is is, like, sketching out to be, it's gonna we have a we have a house under deed restriction that if it ever sells, it's gonna be, like, affordable to, like, the 50%. And then we have another house if if the deed restriction says it's gonna you know, as time goes on, it's going to be probably 120. And all in the all in the in the range. Yeah.

Okay. How long how long is the deed restriction?

Ninety nine years, and then it resets every sale.

Okay. And then, are you working jointly with the housing department to where, let's say there is a master goal of x number of units and you're gonna help provide x, or is it just kind of whatever happens happens?

Well, since you asked, please don't think I'm crazy, but our we haven't worked with the housing department to develop this goal, but our goal is, like, 400 units over ten ish years. Our goal we heard from the community, this is not a small thing. We wanna protect 20% of Lahaina's housing units in the next ten years. We wanna we wanna show the commune what does it feel like when a fifth of your housing units are protected from

the speculative market? You know? Okay. So, no, I'm just wondering because, you know, you wouldn't want to be in competition with the housing department. You wouldn't be working.

Talk as much as we both as, you know, departments are busy. We're super busy. We have our own lanes going on, but we talk as much as needed, when we're developing our our grant agreements. And, we even talk about some affordable housing deed restriction violations going on. Like, we there's there's healthy communication there, I believe.

You have violations going on already?

Yeah. Well, not of ours, of old projects. And, like, you know, when we also, when we consider, buying a certain parcel, we have a a team that talks about whether or not we should purchase this a certain parcel. Gosh, I don't know how many times, at least eight or 10 times, we've taken up some information before we make an offer and we talk with Department of Management or sometimes Public Works just to be like, hey, is this a parcel that's involved in one of your plans because we don't wanna be bidding against each other? You know, that kind of a thing. And that's been really, helpful, actually.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Mahalo. Anybody else have questions? Seeing none. Thank you. Mahalo, everybody.

Good luck to me. Okay.

I just wanted to clarify Come back. If she sent the annual report in of email or if there's physical copies waiting for us over there.

There's a physical copy, but I can email the whole I wasn't sure how many people were gonna be present. I can sit down and email a copy to everybody right now.

Okay. Can you do that? Or do oh, you we have copies here, your hard copy. But the ones that are not in the chambers, can you send that to them? Oh, it's in Granicus. What number in Granicus is it?

Thank

you, and I'll be happy to get my hard copy on Monday. 124

in Granicus, members. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Autumn Ness. Nice to see you. Okay. Next testifier.

Thank you, Chair. The next and currently last individual signed up to testify is Travis Liggett.

Good morning, Chair. Good morning, Council members. Happy Aloha Friday. I am back again, and I'm here to talk about two things. One is my testimony. So I was really moved by Uncle Bobby's testimony that the limit on food production is basically money, currency, that people know what to do. It's just the math of profit versus margin is just so slim. This whole MOA thing, I just thought, what would it look like? You know, there's a lot of currency moving around with that whole Indian civilization comment and all that, people are hedging their bets. People with a lot of zeros behind their names.

And there's other things in currency, which is to invest in an idea. And I would say, Maui's a pretty good idea and that this living life support system just needs to get struck by currency lightning. And I put together a framework that costs $0. It's called M LAST. Maui's first and we can be last alive on the planet because there is a way to design Maui so that is not a resupply system.

It's a closed ecological license support system. It's been done before. It's called before colonization. So the framework is just a framework so that someone can just transfer $15,000,000,000, $1,500,000,000 a year for ten years, 10 core areas, a $115,000,000 a year. I call it the bucks for the budget. And I think someone will bite because your bunker is only as good as the surrounding environment because your pantry is gonna run out. And people think that way. People do think that way. And it's it costs $0. It's formatted for introduction.

I just want you to think about it because if you don't put the light in rod up, it's not going to get struck. And somebody might hear this message because people are freaking out as they should be. That was not okay. So that's my first point. My second point, disinfection in Colli accelerating design. Here's my rationale, and this is very relevant to oil prices. So you can recover almost that $1,800,000 from the current budget. There's 400,000 already allocated to lawyers to defend the DEM's right to not meet the requirements of the NPDES permit. I have a solution, and it started in Napili in 1985. The reach were quite good.

I was so inspired. I got the message. And this is a fully baked solution. And I have a filing ready to go. I've emailed it to member Hodgins. I'll send it to anyone on a personal address as a citizen because I don't want the lawyers to see it. Because when I told them a one page filing could remove your protest and adopt my plan, they looked at me like they didn't like me because they've already counted that 400,000. So the idea is the plan is fully baked. I am both a NASA and Sandia investigator. I have the top leaders in the world.

It's a seven year compliance, phase compliance plan. And here's the relevant part with gas. Sandia is interested in this because the LIMO, which is the basis for this, consume the nutrients, which is what they can't meet in the permit. That biomass can be converted to biofuel because what is petroleum products? Old, old aquatic plants.

It's the limu juice. So the idea is new limu juice is just as good as old limu juice and Lahaina can actually worldwide get us away from old juice. And the idea is basically you can convert the wastewater into fuel. And also you've got 1,250,000.00 for Ma'alaya. The former president is the president of some sort of Alaska Oil Producers Association.

So they don't need the money. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none. Okay. Next testifier, please.

Chair, that is all the individuals signed up to testify. Oh, I do see, one individual walking to the podium.

Thank you, Jared. Aloha. Kakahiaka. Kaha'oke Kalana. Mister Molina over there, thank you for coming in today. Oh, sorry, Yukilei. I'm not supposed to talk to thank you for inviting Public Works, Ohio chair, Kashiwa Sugimura. It's a long story, but and you'll get you'll like this one, mister Cook. The I got a trespassing ticket on the sidewalk in Fredericksburg, Virginia, probably right where George Washington had walked two hundred years ago. But I'm a fond of sidewalks because the the whole thing eventually got my first wish in life was to come back to Hawaii.

So maybe maybe if Nuki Lei is mayor, then we can get a sidewalk in Kula from Ala Nui to the Kula Post Office. Thank you, buddy.

Any questions for the county. Oh, sorry. Any questions for the testifier? Thank you.

Okay. No Chair, we actually have one more individual signed up to testify. Christopher Salem on teams.

Thank you.

Good morning council members, chair. Am I live?

Yes, we can hear you.

Okay. Thank you. Was not prepared to testify in relationship to public works. Once again, I see no references as to who's coming and when, but beyond that, let's get down to the matter of the day, have been shifted by listening to Jordan or excuse me, director Molina. I do need to comment on the fact that statement of no one wants to work with us.

I don't think that's true. Hey Jordan, I want to work with you. No one is more passionate or qualified to lead the reconstruction of Lahaina as it relates to infrastructure and ensuring what takes place here is done in a diligent and cost effective manner. Unfortunately, the lawyers in Honolulu as a condition of settlement are trying to force my hand that I never work with the county of Maui again. And I never enter the county buildings.

That's the kind of attorneys that we're dealing with here. So getting down to subject matters. And by the way, for disclosure, Jordan and I worked together in Salka Hola Ola's office when he first came into the county. Jordan and I worked together on PC 17, which is an assessment and collection in a fair and equitable manner of the developer agreements. Jordan is aware that I brought forth the infrastructure company, a nationwide company that actually is Hawaii based, to assist everyone in that process so that everyone knew things were done with both diligence and respect to the process.

So Jordan, it hasn't been ten years that you've been there. I think it goes back maybe more fifteen and so on, because as your counsel, as an executive assistant with Ellie Cochran. So moving on. So in relationship to as a staff member of the office of mayor serving as a legislative liaison, I brought forward approximately six pieces of draft legislation that I created on my own time. Each one was designed to either stop financial harm to the public, generate revenue, or close loopholes that benefit private developers at the public expense.

At the top of the list was the PC 17 ordinance. Consistent with that, we're dealing with parks and recreation the other day. In that, in the parks ordinance, three lots or less subdivisions are also exempt from park fees. So no infrastructure, no park fees. Man, what developers got a good deal. Even if they're an oceanfront development resulting in $10,000,000 homes, they pay no park fees? Greg Brown, fourteen twelve, 14 bedrooms. No park fees? Finalizing this, you go from the tunnel all the way to Lahaina. Does anyone see a park?

Why are there no parks? Oh, that's that 2372 ordinance. And perhaps chair king, you were involved with that, and I'll wrap it up. Peter Martin should not be giving land for a fire station, just like dedicating the Pain Park fees. They should have been dedicated as part of a subdivision but that lot line subdivision.

And realignment ordinance is a joke. All it does is circumvent title 18 infrastructure fire and public saving ordinances. So that's a nice picture in the paper, so what he's giving us. Can you see how many ordinances all of this affects and all of these mayor Victorino and I agreed to do so without

Please wrap up.

Any way am without incriminating anybody. We agreed we wanted this done in a peaceful and professional manner. Unfortunately, the goal was to remove and stop litigation, which obviously is going to mushroom even further. So Jordan, I would ask you to reach out your hand. I'll wrap it up. I'm offering my services to the people of Lahaina, which I'd love to work with you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none. You very much. Next?

Thank you, chair. The next testifier is Jim Lankford on teams.

Aloha, chair, beautiful souls. Very happy aloha Friday, and you're all sorry, I'm stuttering. I was listening to everybody's rhythm before me. What a blessing for you guys to be in Wailuka's representing our Miss Aloha Hula from last night. How about them apples?

That reflects on the great work you guys are doing too. It's really happening. I just wanted to update. Listened to representative councilperson Hodges yesterday about the union folks, and wanted to let you know I updated my projects to make those apprenticeship programs and kupuna wage protection programs with the information that I submitted to you folks. In the affordable developments and the software that I

that's

that's that's So,

Gazelka:

Doctor. I a S. The and U. How it adds value to

and

Kupuna and the folks coming up, you know, post high school going into their entrepreneurial efforts. So so, yeah. So thank you, and I hope your Friday and weekend is safe and blessed, everyone, and prayers to to the aina. May it stay safe over the weekend.

Thank you, Mr. Langford. Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none. Next testifier?

Thank you, chair. The next individual signed up to testify is Sam Small.

On I'm be live in prayers. Okay. Okay. Are you apologize if there's an echo. Are you hearing me?

Yes, we can hear you. Yes. I Halena

have a delay. I'm sorry.

Can you hear me? Doctor. We can hear you.

Doctor. Yes. Okay. Great. All right. I'm going to turn off. You know, you again. It's always an honor to participate in this process. It is a little bit disconcerting that we don't the public has not been appraised. We have no way of knowing who's going to show up from the county to present at these sessions.

I personally believe that that's a violation of Sunshine. And I think that you're the entire council is putting itself at risk by excluding the public from this process. We all feel excluded because we don't know who's gonna show up and what issues are going to be addressed. And that is absolutely, you know, counter to sunshine. I also listened to, mister Molina's testimony, and I understand that, you know, professionals don't wanna work for the county.

And

there's good reason for that. Most of it has to do with counsel and the pressures and manipulation that court counsel has placed, on employees, to protect, past bad acts. Greg Brown is a perfect you know, is the poster child for this. We can show you 10 different violations, that were existing right up front from the Greg Brown proposal from that stage, that were ignored and facilitated by members of the planning department and public works. And a lot of them Mr.

Small. Are gone from the county.

That is not on our agenda today. Small,

because of the manipulations that were done with Greg Brown.

Mr. Small, think you cannot hear me, and I think we need to shut off this testimony. Mr. Salem. There's a Thank you for testifying on whatever you're talking about.

The ASG of mister Molino, which states that public works can override planning to remove conditions that were part of an SMA permit. That's not true. Can you stop me?

Reality. I don't have a problem.

Oh, okay. I'm gonna call recess. Oh. Welcome back to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. I am advised that Mr. Small, you have how much time does he have left? He can finish his testimony.

Sure. We paused his timer at fifty one seconds, and then he also has the thirty seconds, to wrap up as well, his testimony. Okay. So he has

he has over a minute left, is what you're saying?

Correct,

Chair. Okay. Please proceed. Can you hear us?

Yeah. I think I can.

Okay. Am I back? You are back. Okay. A minute and a half.

Wow. Okay. Just trying to, get my, thoughts together. I thought that I was talking on topic about public works' challenges to get staffing. And there is a, you know, professional understanding that the way that business is conducted between planning and public works is severely broken.

And Greg Brown is an example of what the result of those breaks are. We've been I've been testifying for years about the loopholes that developers in the know and lawyers in the know understand how to get infrastructure hidden in an SMA permit and then do a subdivision that does not include the infrastructure. And because public works does not circle back to planning a subdivision plot for verification that it is consistent with the SMA permit that was issued, which is the law. They don't follow the law, and developers and corrupt lawyers, they are out there, know how to work that system. And it's your job to fix it.

Thank you. Circling back to and just one thing. Why isn't the auditor showing up at one of these sessions? The auditor is supposed to do a a a six month audit of how the money gets spent. That is the stop gap. And by not having the auditor participate, once again, the public is held in the dark, and that is this council's responsibility. You are hindering the public's ability to participate in a confident Anybody have questions for mister Small? Your time.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. You. Next testifier, please.

Chair, that is all the individuals signed up to testify. Would you like me to do a last call? Please. This is the last call for oral testimony. Please come up to the podium, or raise your hand on Teams if you would like to testify. This is final call. The countdown is three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Thank you, members. I will close public testimony and receive written testimony on. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. So now we're going to be talking on public works. In Granicus, public works is in '44 as well as in '95. And I think Molina also gave some live answers to some of your questions in his opening presentation. We are so I'm going to start with Member Cook. This is he's in your jurisdiction for your committee. So Member

strong foundation And we we we a Deputy Director Barnaby and Director Molina have real world professional experience and both for civil construction and that. So it's kind of unique. So I know they know what they're doing and they want to do the right thing, so hopefully we can empower them and hold them accountable at the same time. Director Molina, your department is quite expansive. So, like, strategy strengthened community partnerships, increased education and public participation, and providing quality customer service.

It seems like anyway, I'm an advocate of using technology. I've talked to you this before. My question was the state speed task force that recently concurred occurred. Is the does the department have intentions of retooling the technology and adapting to some degree? I I feel like to some extent, the Maui County government is like using a handsaw, and we have skill saws and chainsaws available.

Getting personnel is a challenge. We're not paying them enough. It's restrictive to be able to massage and move them around. Not replacing anybody, but enabling them and rewarding them. Anyway, any comments about the intentions to address some of the challenges that you have

with technology? Yes. Thank you, Member Cook. Just to note some of the initiatives. We have been approached about incorporating AI in plan review for building permits.

And so that's something our staff has been looking at how that works exactly and to what extent it can be relied upon. In my opinion, I don't see AI replacing people anytime soon because it's people who determine what is important and where the focus needs to be. Outside of that, for me, I make a concerted effort to leverage the systems we have. MAPS is a great tool. Like you said, we're buying I wouldn't say we're using hand tools.

I've seen we use power tools that are throttled down to idle sometimes. And that's because we're not always willing to adapt to the tools to leverage them the best we can. And we're not always integrating our tools across platforms, so they speak each other efficiently. So we are consistently do

to

that. Be be

And

we're we're

we're

going

And

that. That's my questions for now. Thank you for your answer. Thank you.

You have a second round for sure. Member Oh Hodgins.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you folks excuse me for being with us today. I know we had a lot of talk about speed bumps in my district, but I do wanna thank you for the two speed bumps next to Paya School. We had a fatal crash there a couple years ago, and I'm really excited about, that saving the traumatic experience for my children. So, thank you. A couple of things I wanted to talk to you folks about was primarily in your speech, because I look forward to the letters you're gonna send over.

What do you think we can do to help you folks reduce turnover and help keep our good performers performing well? I appreciate what you said earlier. I was looking at your folks' salary, and I was trying to highlight all the ones I thought needed, probably a bump in salary, but I only have one highlighter, so I stopped. Your DSA, I'm quite concerned about because majority of the clerks don't make enough to really consider a livable wage, and they deal with so much ish from the public. So I wanted your thoughts.

Point.

Think I think we of see a we're lot of

the

And lot to

that

we're mentioned, which is something we were supporting at the state ledge is one of the recommendations of the speed task force is to identify our permitting staff as critical positions and going to to

going able

areas we're in, we need to ensure that that the structures and the resources we rely upon for those services are supported so those programs can function at the highest levels. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. What do you think we could do that. To be

first get do to But we know the unions a would support be that because they're always advocating for better pay for their teams. But when we're restricted to entry level offerings, we just can't compete. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. I heard the bell.

Okay. Thank you. Member Sannensi followed by Member Batongan.

Thank you, Chair. And Mahalo, Director Molina for presenting this morning and Mr. Barney. Before I do ask minds, I just wanted to Mahalo the department for the work in all the districts.

In

Hana, when we had all of the big trees that fell down, the state was trying to cut through the trees on the state highway, but our local public works came from the Hana side and started cutting trees from that side. When I finally made it home on Saturday, we had public works. Workers had to step on the the power lines so I could drive over to get to get eventually get home. So thank you guys for that. I think they were, you know, just happy to help out the state guys.

So mahalo for that. That said, did, you know, the storm, we didn't have some of the the sinkholes that we see across, we did but we do have a bunch of potholes because of the storm. Is there a way that they can just at least fill some of the larger ones in the meantime? Another work is

Yeah. Thank you for my other question and I can do my public engagement plug here. CommConnect. We are pushing I've been an advocate of, like I said, leveraging our existing systems. We are trying to maximize the utilization of CommConnect.

One, to just organize how we receive requests and allow our crews to plan their work accordingly. But it also provides awareness for the public to see what has been brought up already in the areas. With the storm, we are all over the place right now and there's stuff we're still finding that we have to address. So, you know, we encourage the public to utilize CommConnect to report anything they see. And that right now is our best tool to ensuring that those requests get to the right people and we can respond timely.

Okay, great. I think I have some staff members on this meeting. They can start jumping on.

Yeah, I use it myself when I'm driving down the road.

Okay. Good one. Because most of the times you want a picture, you want to upload a picture of whatever you're talking about

fact

fact

you're

question. Question.

Assuming control of some of the lands of budding the landfill on a landfill. And so they're willing they've been willing to make those lands available and work with us. So we are in the early phases of starting that planning and land acquisition discussions. And our pleased

we're

we've the And first we lot the

had do that.

And

to we're

where we can with these initiatives. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks, Director. I'll send an invite for my next community town hall meeting. Thanks.

Very good. Member Batangan followed by Chair Lee.

Board Board Board of the

Directors

since you guys have submitted your proposed budget requests. Of I see that, you know, you asked for a 20% increase in materials and supplies, but, you know, the world is different now. The

to

first

a in

get in

impacts on fuel and things that directly result from

fuel the pricing. And just across the board, materials are growing every year. But part of that increase is also our ability to get work completed. And so we've been improving over the years in how much work we can get done. And so that translates into increased cost for materials.

Okay. But the request that you had initially submitted is sufficient? Yes. We feel so.

We'll first and

do do

own.

And going then we're But a but yet I we're decreasing the amount of overtime that's being requested. I just want to make sure that we're giving the department all the tools that it needs. And if this is something that have we to circle back to, we can. We can transmit it in writing just to ensure that the allocation's sufficient for the department.

Budget director, would you like to provide a response?

Yeah. We can definitely respond in more detail in writing, but I think part of the reason for that may have to do with as we've discussed before in premium pay, that's where those council reductions and additions are included. And they reinstated some, but not all. But we'll have to dig into the specific line by line premium.

Even if it was a reintroduction of a council cut, I wouldn't expect it to be a negative percentage then. But, yeah, we'll circle back in there.

Yes. I would just say, if I remember correctly, Department of Personal Service Department of Public Works did not fully reinstate the council cuts, which could be part of the reason for that because they were trying to account for some their vacancies by not fully reinstating those. Thank you, sir.

And then, director, you're the first department that's come forth and said, like, if there is fat to cut, like, this is where we would recommend you guys look, which we really appreciate. Because, you know, so far we've gotten everything's a priority or, you know, the things that should be cut are in the district of the member who's asking the question. Can I ask about the North South Collector Road? Do you need all, you know, roughly $27,000,000 to be encumbered in this next fiscal year?

Yes. And that is largely due to the deadline tied to the RACE grant, which is next September 2027.

Okay. Shirley?

Thank you. Hello, Director and Deputy Director. A few years ago, I initiated and the council agreed to put in seven positions for your highways program. At that time, I believe we were actually I actually was wanting to encourage you to set up a base yard in South Maui. That's one of our biggest districts, one of our troublesome districts every single storm.

And so I was wondering if you made any progress. But you did take the seven positions. You fill the seven positions, but you assign them to South Maui. So that's very helpful. But I really think they need their own base yard considering the work that's generated in South Maui. Are we any closer to getting them that base yard?

Thank you, Chair Lee. Yes, we do continue to make strides on implementing our base yard master plan, which includes looking at South Maui. We've gone back and forth to do I've gone back and forth about it. That. And I feel like our presence in the districts is part of our strength.

And so we do think we will be pursuing a base yard in South Maui. But perhaps it doesn't need to accommodate all the facilities we typically put because of its ability to access into Central Maui relatively easily. So for example, like the garage, I don't feel has to be as robust in South Maui and things of that nature. But yes, we are And made in of of in support Mt. The South Maui better. Thank you.

And thank you for being open to discussing what some of your projects that can be deferred or reduced in some way. Because it's way easier for us to have this honest discussion with you rather than us trying to guess and guess wrong on which projects not to fund this year. Really appreciate that cooperation spirit and thank you for your service. That's all the questions I have, Mr.

Chair. Thank you. That's very nice. Member Palton.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director Molina, Deputy

Barrene.

Since we started at 10:00, I was able to look through your responses and chart out the vacancies. I noticed that you mentioned the fiscal year twenty six positions that haven't been created. Do you have some positions that haven't been created from prior to fiscal year twenty six as well?

Seems

I don't I will have to confirm. I don't believe, but there are some that are stuck still in the reorg and the position creation process.

Is there any way that, you could, like, call a friend maybe in management to assist you with personnel, like not, like, try to tell them what to do, but to assist you in the creation of those positions or with the reorg or borrow some or d m 89 person, a few people.

I have been doing everything short of screaming to try and get help, and it is the most difficult part of this job, hands down. I will go fight wildfires all day then try to deal through personnel.

Oh. Wow. And then what about contracting out? Like, for leaf, I I know some permit clerks left to go work for for leaf because they are paying so much more. I don't wanna encourage any more people to leave, but the do

to And

get And

ir

to

own

they're achieving the objectives we set forth. And that's where we've struggled to make those supervisory positions attractive even to our internal people. Regularly, the people don't want to promote up into supervisors because it's not worth the pay.

Yeah. Yeah. I see these two engineering program managers that have yet to be created. Like, it looks like half of your admin positions are vacant, so I can see why it would be very hard. But, if we're not filling the positions, especially positions that need a reorg or union consultation, and you're still asking for twelve months of pay. I know these one, you're only asking for three months, but some of them that haven't been come, created yet. Is it realistic to think that they will be created as of July '1?

Mean, honestly, probably not. So if those were targeted for salary reductions, we wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that consideration. Thank you.

Okay. I think I heard the buzzer, right? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'll come back around.

Okay. Member Johnson followed by Member Rollins Fernandez.

Thank you, chair. Good morning, director, deputy director. Some of my questions have already been asked, and I was trying to ask about the the struggles you guys are dealing with, hiring. I totally figure where you're coming from. But on Lanai, usually, you guys don't have issues with the hiring. People wanna work for the county on Lanai. So how's that for segue, director? Really wanna get, a position filled on Lanai. Yeah. Did you do you want me to ask that question? Do know do you know what I'm referring to?

Yeah. Thank you. I know you inquired about the utility worker. And, you know, the reason he's not in there, this budget, is simply because we're not confident we'll be able to get through that given the backlog with the FY 'twenty six positions we're still working to create. And with the vacancies in my admin team, considering across the priorities department, we just didn't feel that was essential for FY 2027.

Okay. And I should clarify. I didn't mean to say unfilled, I meant to say create create those positions. You know, I went and met with those guys and because we literally are out, you know, on an island, you know, like even more removed, they're pushing for two positions. I think they really need more, and I would support that.

We have this big, you know, all this, the stories that are happening on Lanai are kind of universal. We don't have enough workers. The storms keep coming, and they keep adding more challenges. So, I think the positions are really important that they have. I think they need a women's bathroom at the at the at the at their base yard. They don't have a conference room. They meet out just on a picnic table and some chairs. Those were something that I wanted to see what say you guys on that, Director.

Yes. I mean, we're aware that Lanai can be brought up into the modern era with some of those amenities. And, you know, we're not opposed to supporting our team that way. It's just a matter of bandwidth and and priority. And, they do a good job of getting by, but we do recognize that a couple of extra positions there would help them manage their workload a bit better. Right. Yes. So we're aware of the need, definitely. Next

going

to

question. Get

else that's been on the community's mind is the cemetery and working with the cemetery. You know, it's owned by the company. The last I heard, they want to donate it to the county. What do you think on that, Director? Would you guys be open to that?

For us, it's an extension of existing function. So it's simply a matter of staffing accordingly. It's easy because we know how to run cemeteries on that island. So it's something we could accommodate should that be the direction of counsel and administration. Thank

especially at just weather, it's just looking so rugged. These are people, these are something that I want to help. It's good to hear, and I heard the bell chair, so it's good to hear your opinion on that, Director. I always want to work with you on something that you would agree and that we could have come to agreement on as if we work together, and I think we could solve it. So the cemetery is definitely on top of mind for me, and I heard the bell. I'll I'll wait for a second round. Thank you.

Thank you. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Aloha, chair. Aloha, director, deputy director, and anyone else, on the team for being with us, today. And it's probably a good thing that, you know, DPS was, scheduled for the same day as you folks so that they can hear some of the discussion. I'm guessing they haven't or maybe they have. But it just there's a lot that we need to get done, and we can't without staffing.

And so it would be really good if, you know, DPS could could work with us on this. And I know we're not gonna solve it today, but it just, you know, sounds like a death spiral where pay isn't competitive, so we can't fill vacancies, which puts more work on those that are working, our our current employees, which, you know, they they don't get compensated for for being short staffed, and then it makes it less just justifiable for the salary they get and for them to want to take on a management position. And then we know that often the reward for strong performers is just more work. In response to your response to member Uwu Hajins is that you'd want to provide like a bonus for meeting or exceeding their for meeting or exceeding. And then, so do you have a model for us, or

to

to do that.

Satisfactory and a percentage for exceeds and just additional compensation. But I think the problem is the structure of our civil service law and how we, you know, for some reason we feel that it's not equitable to give bonuses out. I don't understand it, but, yeah, we're happy to share what our proposal was. Thank you.

Okay. Mahalo. And, you know, like our I know across the county, everyone works really hard. And like on Molokai, we're just so super appreciative of our public Works division here for keeping our one highway passable for as much as possible during these storms. That's critical.

So, we we need we need people who are willing to to do that, and then we need to compensate them for for doing that and going out. And so okay. So then I spoke with them, and I asked if they get hazard pay for going out during during the storms, and they said they don't. And, you know, I I think they should.

We totally agree. That is something we've been, you know, trying to work on as well because, yeah, they are out there. They we get called by MPD when it's the action is happening, and we are expected to respond. You know, our guys don't get standby pay either, but they're basically on call 20 fourseven. But, you know, I guess not not all of our partners recognize the services we provide, but that's definitely something we're supportive of and are trying to pursue also.

Yeah. That's just wrong. And we need to compensate them because I I don't wanna lose them. And, know, mister Apuna here, Cherry, get him mute. Cherry. And, whenever I you know, whenever the community reaches out to, Roger here, like, he's super responsive. No matter, you know, what time of day, even on the weekends and holidays, like okay. I think this council would be super happy to try to figure this out, especially after the konolos and seeing how critical it is to have them. Mahalo. I have more questions, but I'll wait for round two.

Okay. Thank you. So I have a question for you. So you actually identified I want to make sure I get the right CIP number. So you're talking about CBS 7,232 Countywide DPW base yard facilities program and you're saying that you could delay these, which is $4,700,000 and 2,100,000.0 Is that correct?

I believe the entirety of that budget this year is $11,900,000 There are some things that are kind of critical like our Molokai Cemetery acquisition. I don't think Member Rollins Fernandez would want us to drag that

one out any further. No, I'm not asking that. I'm well, you identified. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about you said that you would be able to look at the base yard CIP, no?

Yes. So that's included in there. It's an extension of our public works facilities or our highways base yard facilities. So yes, like the land acquisitions for the Central And South, like I mentioned, we could get by another year if need be. And even some of the planning work, we could delay if needed to support the council's budget.

Okay. So is this the correct CBS number?

Yes. That's what we identified as being kind of the maybe if I had to give it a low priority, it would be that one.

Okay. So maybe we can get that then from you were going to answer that anyway then?

Yes. There's a question with a breakdown of that funding. So we'll be providing that in PW2 response.

Okay. So it's coming. All right. So that's what I was wondering. And then members are talking also about what you mentioned in terms of a supplemental agreement for the employees. Believe budget director when I don't know what department was before us, maybe it was office of the mayor going able able that. Able

'20 half first

of

sense what

And to

a question. Good

Board.

Which I understand it would be an across the board, which is not necessarily something I agree with because it's again, you're not necessarily rewarding your high performers with that kind of

we're

to

So we're do don't think it was one of the requests, so

I guess I would recommend that just for the committee's record. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Member Cook, second round, two minutes.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director. I think that last comment speaks to the real world experience as far as rewarding people who are more productive instead of unilaterally giving everybody in that category a raise. And the definition of fairness is really different between in the government employment and in the public sector. And the opportunities to advance are much greater in the public sector than it is in the government sector.

It's easier to fail in the public sector. But anyway, I just wanted to comment on that, that you put your finger right on the pulse, not being able to reward excellence in the current department of personnel services. My question, sir, is and I'll put it in writing, I'm just curious, on page seven thirty seven, increase improvement. So new sidewalks, linear feet, lanes of bicycle paths, linear feet, etcetera. Could I request that and get like a map and some detail?

And the reason I'd like that is basically for my constituents in the community. And if you could add to that, and this isn't something like everything you have on your plate, this isn't exactly a budget issue, but it's information reflected in the budget that I would like to be able to have in our office. And then if you could also add what's proposed for FY '27 so that we could do it'd be good for the department and my office and government in general to be able to demonstrate to the public what has been done and what's being planned to be done. Everybody's always wanting sidewalks. Well, for us to be able to for you to be able to demonstrate we've done this much sidewalks in these areas and these are what we're planning to do, we're not gonna make everybody happy because it might not be a sidewalk in front of their house.

But it'll demonstrate efficiency and so anyways, that's something that's possible.

Yes. And that's something we've been trying to improve upon, and that's one of those technology items where we're slowly growing GIS, but my concern about starting it is being able to commit to it and ensure it's reliable. GIS is another of those positions that are hard to fill. Unfortunately, our county or our management GIS team has been super helpful, But we still need our complement on our side to make it really a reliable and effective system for the public. So we are looking in that direction.

We just want to make sure that once we ir get get of for you folks.

Okay. Thank you. And there again, appreciate your real world, honest, straightforward answers.

Next testifier is Member Woo Hajans, followed by Sonensi.

Thank you, Chair. I don't think I'm going to testify, but I also don't have any further questions for the department. I do appreciate your honesty and your transparency, and I look forward to reading your stuff. It's just starting to rain upcountry, so yay for more rain. Keep safe, folks.

So you're done? Member Sanancy, questions?

You, Chair. Yes, weather update. East Maui, it's also they're seeing more rain right now, too. Director, in your opening comments, mentioned that is it normally your admin that creates the job details or the positions, not personnel

department?

No. It's the departments that have to generate all the materials that then are reviewed by DPS. Those personnel staff are the tip of the spear in getting those things started and completed.

Okay. All right. Thank you for that. And then one of my questions was I know I often drive from Waiaju or sometimes in the mornings. Is there any interest from the department about looking at increasing access for evacuation purposes towards Waiaju side, the thing

of that to on see the impact of COVID-nineteen we're going of Wailuka Country Estates. So And that extension has been planned for a while. It's tied to the Pihana Project District. And so we have begun preliminary design work and planning work developing that corridor.

Okay. That's good to hear. Thank you. That's all for now, Chair. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Member Batangan followed by Chair Lee.

Thank you, Chair. I don't have any other questions.

Thank you. Chair Lee.

I don't want to discourage you, Member Senancy, but I was on the council when that condition was added to the Piyohana subdivision I mean, project district around forty years ago. So it's taking its time, you know, coming up. Yeah. So I wanted to ask, the director, Molina. You know, sometimes when I'm driving on North Key Hay Road, I I can picture that road disappearing. It's one day because the two sides are rising and rising and rising. What's the long term plan for that area?

I got to get back to you on exactly, but as far as I'm so that's a state DOT facility. And as far as I'm aware, that's not in the near term horizon. We just forced their hand by helping fund focused on the Paiya Bypass for some time. And so I'd have to get back to you to know and maybe Member Batonga in his past experience might have awareness of that North Kihei Road. Thank you.

Yeah. Can be very scary, very scary. Okay. And then let's see. When do you think there will be progress done on salary adjustments which would could apply countywide? We're trying to get that for our OCC. We have civil servants in the office of the county clerk, and we would like to do that. We asked the mayor over a year ago.

After defer to Probably

there's no no any progress?

Thank you, Chair. I think we should defer that question until DPS is before the body. Thank you.

Okay. All right, then. I have no further questions. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. So, Member Palton followed by Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. I was wondering if you knew the status of the Kahana Nui Basin Modifications and Lahaina Watershed supplemental plan EB.

Yeah. Thank you, member Palton. The Kahana Nui, we just, wait. Let me pull up my response. I just got through that one. Cool. It is? Thank you. So we it's in the initial design phases. We have sort of a crossroads decision right funding.

'19. Be then, able pursue them, but there are some state dam regulations that we're going fighting against the timing of. So we are weighing our options at the moment. But regardless, we are progressing with the design work for the modifications that are needed to bring the facility and to meet the current dam safety requirements.

Awesome. And, is there a status update on the resurfacing of Ala Moana Street and Unahi'ole?

Yeah. And then I forgot about the Kahoma one. We just selected G70 as our consultant, and we're in contracts now to get them under contract and start the evaluation work. For those other resurfacing projects, there's been on hold since the fire. We've been holding them back to allow some of the rebuilds and utility work to progress because we don't want to use our money and then have it be ripped up right after.

And then there's also the Doctor money we got for the district wide or burn zone wide repairs from the wildfires that we want to coordinate. Ideally, we want to try do our best to not have our brand new roads get So hooked up we just got those awards and just started that coordination with Doctor on these projects. So they'll be on hold for the next year or so until Great.

Great. And then my other question was when we had housing before us, they were able to, under, like, state law, convert some of their civil service positions to noncivil because of the housing crisis. And I imagine that the housing permitting clerks, I was wondering if if you have vacancies in that, if you could convert them to noncivil and just hire people at will under that same HRS.

I had just heard about that from around sorry. I can't remember who. So that's something we'll look at. You know, the details of that have not been shared to me, so I'd have to do my SEEP research to see how it could apply for our situation. Thank you.

Okay. Maybe give, mister Mitchell a call, and and he'll give you his homework or something. I got his number if you want me to text it to you.

I think I have it. Thank you.

Oh, okay. Are you done?

Member

first of then the 20

of of

Board Directors of of curious. It seems to me the that a lot of council members' questions, we're all concerned about filling those empty positions, and every department coming before us has, this is our solution. This is what we're trying to do. This is what we're do you guys ever, like, have meetings with each other and find out, like, what just customer and policy and find out what Remy was doing in housing. Find out what these guys are doing for for this department. I I think it's important they have kind of networking silos and they have communication. Are you guys trying to solve this issue together, Director?

I I would say there's room for improvement in that area, definitely.

Yeah. Do you okay. This is maybe you don't wanna answer this, but this is me from an outside looking in. Do you feel like maybe there's a little bit of attitude like, don't ninja my employees, man. They're, you know, they're my department's employees. I want I want them not to transfer over to your department. Is is that something you you hear?

Yeah. I mean, we, you know, we don't try to undermine at least for so Polyworks may be different because I gotta deal with all those other guys in my road. So I need them to be functional too. But, you know, when do steal each other, at least, you know, with across generally the way doing to try and steal people on purpose. We're And all partners here, so we're not trying to sabotage each other along the way, but

Okay. I hear you and that's what I hope to hope it to be like that. But like you say, there's probably room for improvement. Okay. Thanks for your response, Director. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Okay. Mahalo, Chair. All right. So okay. Before I forget, mahalo to, you folks for expediting the new, cemetery for Molokai. And, again, mahalo to our public works team for immediately addressing the 211 graves that were affected by the back to back on a low sunken, collapsed graves. Was really heart wrenching. Okay. So the mechanic positions that were vacant since like for a while, like there's like an assistant since 2019. So when that happens, I think we discussed before some of the positions that are vacant.

If we can't get the job done internally, then we contract outside. Do you folks like track the amount that we pay more when we have to contract a private sector, than if we, you know, had those positions filled?

I would say we don't. We would have to put together research to really nail down that question. For the mechanics themselves, I mean, do have a pretty strong team and have been somewhat better in getting mechanics. So the use on the contracted service is pretty minimal for those folks. And then in other areas, it's just simply like we don't have programs that are as developed to be even be able to do the work that contractors do without compromising existing services to do so or

of first

we a 19.

And

the

first half to 20,

How about the Molokai?

We can get back to you on specifics from Molokai. I don't have that ready at the moment.

Right. Then

Mr. Lindsay said triple.

Sounds about right. Question 18B, dollars 27,000,000 in federal relief. Is that was that bond, cash, mix?

I think it's primarily a grant or assumed grant funding. But we do we're still working with Federal Highways to get their approval of our emergency repair request. It's not looking very hopeful, but we did also get consideration under Doctor to conduct those repairs as well.

Mahalo for your responses. That's all my questions, and it's starting to kinda come down. It's it's raining kinda hard now in. Okay.

I wanna just say I like I like reading that North South Collector Road is proceeding because I know it was a little blocked. So all of that legal things have

No.

We're still moving, but we do have a few of Member Cook's friends that don't want to participate. And so we likely will be having to come in to request council's consideration for eminent domain for a handful of properties.

Thanks for working hard on it. I know that with MPO, we had Kihei Community Association come on pretty hard asking why not. And I think you enlightened them from that time. It's been a couple of years. So you're still working on it then. But the RAISE grant you said, has to be

We so we're going to be up against some hard decisions here shortly. So, yeah, hoping for some support from the community, but if not, hopefully, that council recognizes the importance of getting this project delivered. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. It's been, like, forever, so next you can answer that question, Tom, member Cook. But, also, going be do that.

We're

able able to that. And yes, we that grant experienced transition at the federal administration. And so there was a lot of adjustments that were we experienced through the NEPA process and it generated significant delays. But unfortunately, the feds have acknowledged their role in that and have given us additional time. But we still intend to move forward with that project on the current schedule, which has us looking hopefully going out to bid sometime in quarter or spring of next year.

Oh, that's good. Yes, because there's housing projects waiting on that. So it's

Yes. We are very cognizant of the not only for the housing but also for The schools. The ways the school and the future wastewater facility out there to which the road is going to provide access and those utility connections.

Yes, major. Okay. Thank you.

Had to

ask that. That's all our friends that are waiting. I okay. So now it's your turn.

Thank you, Yes. So as far as the North Salt Collector Road, we can't do eminent domain fast enough. Think the community is pretty a so, we're going be able to to just saying, don't like the a

road, I don't want it. So

that's we're my 2¢ on that. Talking about the North Dakota Collector Road, how supportive and is the department working towards securing the other rights of way to complete the road, both on the South end and as well as on the North end? My understanding is that north end, because of eliminating the bridge by Sudostar would require the potential extension of that road. What's the status of being able to get those easements?

So for the North end, the property is owned by Weinberg Foundation and they've been very cooperative in working with us to not only explore the roadway there, but also address some of the or look at opportunities for flood mitigation as well. So yes, they're an active partner at the moment. And fortunately, they've been willing to accommodate because I think they recognize the challenge on their site as well. When we talk about the South end that currently, it will take us all the way to Ohana Road from Vallakau. We have been in conversations with the owners of the Alahele parcel.

And so they're aware of our need there. And we're trying to navigate best approach to it. But I guess both of us are not necessarily ready to commit to anything at this time. And then there's one more parcel which we haven't started conversations with yet.

Able we're do.

Going

to

a

And that. And that. Able to And

And

we're

do that.

I mean, first and foremost, that. A personnel matter. I mean, I just don't have enough engineers to tackle all these problems. But as far as what we have going, we have modeled Hawaii Koa and so now we're developing concepts for potential mitigation there. We've started modeling for Kulani, Hawaii the Koa lower areas. And then the big one we have is within our CS for looking at Malka mitigation at Kulani Hokkoy, which is pending review with national headquarters within our CS to see whether that's a project they are willing to bring into their program.

Does Army Corps of Engineers come into play at all?

They will be involved in permitting when we get to the low line areas that are in waters under their jurisdiction. But we haven't tapped them for these projects because I think there might not be as clear of a nexus. They're more in the water And these streams in Keyia are not your perennial streams.

So they might not be of assistance, but they also wouldn't be an impediment? Yes. I mean,

20. Going

get

pleased And

with team. That. And I we're

to

be a the so to that. Lift. And And fortunately, so I have a team now that can help me work through that.

Okay. Thanks. We just we continue to be supportive of that. And there again, it's construction management, I mean, it's not rocket science, but it is complicated. And you get the right people and the team working together, it can be very efficient. So continue to help any way we can.

Thank you.

Okay. Next, have Member Woo Hajens followed by Senensi. Follow. You don't have

Thank you, Chair. I have no further questions.

Okay. Thank you. Member Senensi, you have no further, right? You're saying, okay. Next, Member Batangen. No more questions. Chair Lee?

Yes, have a question. You brought up Waiali extension. But Jordan, when is the roundabout going in on Waiali? And next

And archaeologists and of course, we're in the sand in that area, so highly sensitive. So that one is still a few years out.

Oh, my goodness. Is there any possibility that we could acquire the land where John Okamura's property is on Waiali so people can make an automatic right turn on Maui Lani Parkway?

We are looking at that because we did receive multiple requests from Waikapu Community Association about that issue. And so we are looking to or we started early planning on looking at how to fit that right turn lane in at the intersection. So we think we have room. The challenge is we got to move a lot of stuff to fit it in, like the traffic signal pole, for example, and the related equipment. Question.

We'll quarter

we're Sachs.

To

And Shoot. I forgot what I was gonna say. Can you come back to me after member Johnson?

Yes. I should have wrote it down. Member Johnson.

Well, I didn't have any questions, but I do wanna thank the department for all their work. And really appreciate you guys, and I hope council member Paul remembers your questions.

Thank you, chair.

Or we can go to Thank you. Oh. Oh. I just Yeah. I don't remember the question part, but the comment part was I've been trying really hard to recruit for you among the, you know, six to 12 year olds that come to the budget hearings that are in STEM.

If you had a little, talking point that you wanted me to tell those kids, just email it over. But maybe we should also reach out to Leslie Wilkins and, you know, give them, like, road bridge, drainage, traffic signal, kind of, like, little activities so that, you know, they already planting the seed. Because they say that they wanna, like, you know, improve their community and make new friends. And I I did speak briefly to Christy Chung about, like, you know, what we could stand. She said when she worked for public work, she she met a lot of new people.

She was able to help people and like that. So if you have any talking points, that I can recruit these kids or miss Wilkins, I'm I'm trying to do my part out here. Cheers.

Thank you, member Palton. And we, you know, we recognize the need to grow in that area, and, you know, it is outside of our comfort zone. All us guys at Public a do. We're be do and need to share And and entice people and make them excited about the kinds of activities we do here and how we support our community. So we appreciate your support in that area. Thank you.

The other question I had is, you know, a lot of private community members as well as some of the big corporations like Goodfellows and whatnot are coming out and assisting the the community during the storm as well, like, if they have any kind of machinery, you know, especially Lahaina. If you have a machinery, you're just gonna come out and try and divert the water from people's houses. Is there any preexisting contracts for, like, when things go down that like, especially between Kona 1 and Kona 2, it was such a short time period, and we don't have, like, full manpower. Are there preexisting contracts to be able to hire folks when we're in that kind of a tight squeeze and we need to get, like, you know, things out of the coaches and things like that or, like, an adopt a goat program or anything along those lines?

We don't necessarily have preposition. That is something we're going to be improving on now that this is becoming an annual activity. But, yeah, there are contractors we work regularly with through our CIP projects that we're comfortable deploying in those scenarios because one of our challenges is maintaining oversight of these people when they're out there. And a lot of people want to go and I get a lot of calls about, yes, yes, I go and it's kind of like, well, if you don't really work in this area, we can't be confident we can manage you guys effectively. And so that becomes one of those bandwidth issues.

But it is something we do recognize we need support on and we'll be getting better on getting those preposition contracts in place. Thank you.

Last question I remembered was my original question. In terms, I've been getting reached out by the t grind CFD folks again, and I just been telling them that, like, you know, capacity is a problem for you guys. Just let me know if that's not what you want me to say or if you want me to say something different. But I just assume that with all that's going on with the fire, the recovery, and all the floods, that you're not super supportive?

If they keep the maintenance, that'll be fine. But then I guess there's still this oversight component of ensuring that they're conducting their maintenance properly and those facilities, maintain good working order. And so that would be the other side of we would need to grow to ensure we can maintain proper oversight because those facilities are going to or there's going be a lot of able able to sure we're that we're

we're to

a sense of we're

And You're on.

Remember Rollins Fernandez, you said you didn't have any questions. Is that right? Okay. All right. So I just have one. Our office, as you know, gets requests from Pukulani and on their roads. I'm just wondering that in your in the program budget under CBS ten twenty three Countywide Road resurfacing and pavement preservation. So I was just wondering if you have any updates on Pukulani Terrace Subdivision pavement reconstruction. Yes.

We have multiple get a going what we're

quarter

unfortunately will always to take a backseat to the federal ones. Our priority is to bring in that outside money to the extent we can. And that's a group that has also been struggling to find a supervisory engineering position since we lost the incumbent over two years ago now. But we are yes, that is on the radar to try and get rolling hopefully this year. Thank you.

Thank you. I will let them know. So of course now that we have the fuel prices increasing, I'm just wondering how does the department anticipate meeting the needs with all of those kind of needs? Every day we turn on our television, watch the news and there's more about the war and how it's impacting.

Okay. So for FY '26, obviously, the last few weeks on fuel or month has been crazy. So those impacts are hitting the budget already. And so we've requested to move savings over to cover the shortfall we anticipate. But I'm and we would of in market.

Market. Of of operation and the pricing is significant. In addition to any sort of utility water sewer increases proposed, those have not yet been incorporated. And so consideration for that as well. Thank you.

So it's not in here and you want us to consider something and you said as add savings and budget director would direct

us on That's the for our FY 2026 request. But for 2027, I think those adjustments would need to be made or just appreciate your guys' support when it comes quarter three of next fiscal year to see where we're at.

Okay. So we don't have

to put anything in the current budget is what you're saying? Defer to Budget Director on that response. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Yeah. I think as Director Molina was saying, there are two ways that we can handle it. If we want to come up with a ballpark figure now and add it to the budget or just have the body be aware that most likely there will be an amendment forthcoming late in the next fiscal year to account for these increased costs. Thank you, Chair.

Certainly is volatile. Okay. So that's it for round three members. Anybody else? None. Okay. Thank you very much department and this is the first time we had a oral response to our questions. Thank you very much for everything that both of you do, director and deputy. Nice seeing you here. So members, it is now 12:16, ready for recess, and then we'll do personnel in the afternoon. Is that good? You wanna come back at 01:30? Is that good? 01:30. Okay. This meeting is now in Oh, sure.

Oh, yes. I thought the calendar also said the Nemo. Are we not doing Nemo

Oh, okay. Because of the storm? Yes. So we can talk about that if you want. Because yesterday

I just wanna know what to prepare for after lunch. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So DPS, as I said, is coming in the afternoon. And, of course, because they're busy, yesterday, budget director was able to confirm other discussion regarding the oral revolving funds, OEV will be here also on Monday. So next Monday, April 16 is MEMA and OEV right now. And then this afternoon is just DPS.

Chair, is that updated calendar going to be posted on Granicus?

Did we do that? I think the latest calendar is April 7.

That right? We don't have an updated calendar to reflect that quite yet just because we weren't sure if the members would be available. In order for the committee to meet on Monday, committee will need to

do to And And then then we would end up going to Molokai for the evening meeting. You guys want to think about it?

Yeah. Can we get back to you after lunch?

Yeah. You're fine? Okay. You'll get back to us then. We'll have this discussion when we come back at 01:30 about the recess meeting on Monday if it can happen or not. One more thing, public works. Rates and fees you have no increases.

I don't believe so. Yes, I didn't see it. At least on the permitting side, we wouldn't. I think fuel and well, fuels don't fuel and weight, we don't really have a say in that one. But yes, nothing of my awareness, but we'll confirm on that. Thank you.

Okay. Yes, I don't see any in the Ramseyer version, there's no changes. Member, Woo Jin's?

Thank you, chair. This is just an FYI, but I will be picking up my children from school when we return, and the country roads have no service. So I will try my best to listen, But feel free to skip me until I get back at this chair until about 02:30 ish. Thank you. Okay. Be safe.

Alright. So members, we will see you back here at 01:30 for after lunch. Appreciate all your hard work and double duty as we're trying to adjust our schedules because of the storm. Thank you everybody and this meeting is now recess. Good afternoon.

Welcome to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. It is now 01:38. And the second department that we have is the Department of Personnel Services. And members, for your information, letter and response is PS1 is 44 and department question letters PS2 is 97. Did we get back their responses?

We did I

thought get

he said, p w one was 44.

P did it change? Okay. I'll let you know.

Repeat what p s 22 was or p s two was?

P S two is 90 5. Thank you. P s one is it oh, p s oh, p s 2 is 89. It changed. Happens when

the Oh, P p S 2 is 89.